Seanad Éireann

Vol. 242 Thursday, No. 2 24 September 2015

DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD ÉIREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Insert Date Here

24/09/2015A00100Business of Seanad ��2

24/09/2015A00300Commencement Matters ��3

24/09/2015A00400Flood Relief Schemes ��3

24/09/2015B00300Air Services Provision��5

24/09/2015G00100Order of Business ��8

24/09/2015N00300Resignation of Member: Motion ��22

24/09/2015N00600Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 4(7)) (Membership of Council) Regulations 2015: Re- ferral to Joint Committee ��22

24/09/2015Q00100Minerals Development Bill 2015: Order for Second Stage��22

24/09/2015Q00350Minerals Development Bill 2015: Second Stage ��23

/09/2015Choice of Court (Hague Convention) Bill 2015: Committee and Remaining Stages ��35 SEANAD ÉIREANN

Déardaoin, 24 Meán Fómhair 2015

Thursday, 24 September 2015

Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m.

Machnamh agus Paidir. Reflection and Prayer.

24/09/2015A00100Business of Seanad

24/09/2015A00200An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Thomas Byrne that, on the motion for the Commencement of the House today, he proposes to raise the following matter:

The need for the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works to progress and maintain the cleaning of the Castle Stream and Tolka River in Dunboyne, County Meath, to prevent future flooding.

I have also received notice from Senator Fidelma Healy Eames of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to outline how she will resolve the crisis concerning the air service to the Aran Islands given the islanders’ explicit wish for a fixed-wing air service from Minna, County Galway.

I have also received notice from Senator Colm Burke of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Health to take immediate action to resolve the long delays which exist in the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Ireland registration process as there are currently 2,313 applications pending approval.

I have also received notice from Senator Mary M. White of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Health to clarify when BreastCheck will be fully rolled out to 65 to 69 year olds.

I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion. I have selected Sena- tors Byrne and Healy Eames and they will be taken now. Senators Burke and White have withdrawn their Commencement Matters which I had selected.

24/09/2015A00300Commencement Matters

83 Seanad Éireann

24/09/2015A00400Flood Relief Schemes

24/09/2015A00500An Cathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Harris, to the House.

24/09/2015A00600Senator Thomas Byrne: I understand the Minister of State is busy and it is not my intention to delay him. A number of residents and members of Meath County Council, including my friend and colleague Damien O’Reilly, have been in touch with me about the issue of the flood relief works which have been carried out in Dunboyne and Clonee as a result of flooding which took place more than a decade ago. Those flood relief works are a model of the type of work we would hope to see all around the country. They have worked, and are expected to work, really well.

A number of residents have expressed some concern about the growth that is taking place in the rivers at the moment. I understand that may be summer growth and will rectify as the seasons progress but if the Minister of State were to put on the record the OPW’s view on it, that would alleviate a lot of concerns. There are also concerns about the need for the OPW to carry out regular maintenance work underneath bridges to ensure this project is kept in the way it has been built. It has been an excellent project by the OPW and we want it to continue. I am not here to scaremonger but to represent views expressed by residents in the area.

On a side note, and it is the Minister of State’s responsibility as well, insurance is still an issue in the area. Even this summer, people contacted me. I can list the names of people who have had serious difficulties getting insurance even though these flood works are a model of their kind. Our concern is that the OPW would continue to maintain the project in the necessary way.

24/09/2015A00700Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Simon Harris): I thank Senator Byrne for raising this issue on his behalf and that of Councillor O’Reilly and for giving me an opportunity to address the Seanad on it. As the Senator knows well, the River Tolka has a history of flooding following heavy rainfall, which has been well-documented after major flood events in 1954 and in subsequent years. The river has been the subject of a number of investigations and of most significance were those carried out in both 1955 and 1986. Severe flooding from the River Tolka and its tributaries occurred in the Dublin city, Meath and Fingal areas in November 2000 and November 2002. In July 2001, Dublin City Council commissioned the greater Dublin strategic drainage study. This was a multi-million euro engineering study of the strategic drainage requirements of the greater Dublin area. A full study of the Tolka was not included in that study. In view of the November 2000 flood, the OPW requested that it be included.

The River Tolka flooding study was under way when the November 2002 flood occurred. The consultants were asked to produce interim reports for all three local authorities concerned - Dublin City Council, Fingal County Council and Meath County Council - to identify works that could be undertaken straightaway to reduce the risk of flooding in the worst affected areas. The final report on the Tolka was completed in November 2003 and this brought together many of the recommendations contained in the interim reports and also much additional information which provided the basis for further decisions in relation to the catchment as a whole. As a result of the interim reports, works began in the Dublin city and County Meath areas in 2003 and were largely finished by 2009. 84 24 September 2015 The interim report for the Meath area was received by the OPW in February 2003 and officials from the OPW and Meath County Council agreed a programme of works which would be funded and undertaken by the OPW. I thank the Senator for his kind words about those works. The proposed works were the subject of a public consultation procedure by Meath County Council as required under Part 8 of the planning and development regulations and the main construction work began in July 2003.

The works carried out in County Meath in 2003 comprised the construction of the following: a 1,400 m embankment on lands adjoining the Tolka River downstream of Dunboyne from Loughsallagh to Clonee; the deepening and widening of the Castle Stream from the Maynooth Road Bridge, Dunboyne, to the confluence with the Tolka River; the underpinning of the old railway culvert to the rear of Beechdale Estate, Dunboyne; the construction of a 300 m long and 1.5 m high wall from Clonee Bridge to the M3, which was undertaken by Meath County Council and funded by the OPW, and the upgrading of the Tolka over the same stretch; the re- placement of the Rooske Road Bridge, Dunboyne; and the general cleaning of the River Tolka in Dunboyne and Clonee areas.

The River Tolka flood alleviation scheme was carried out under local authority powers and not under the powers of the Commissioners of Public Works under the Arterial Drainage Acts 1945 and 1995. I must stress that responsibility for the maintenance of this scheme rests with Meath County Council. The OPW has no statutory powers to enter lands on this scheme.

Following a request made by Meath County Council after a flood event of 24 October 2011, the OPW undertook on this occasion to carry out minor maintenance works on the Castle Stream on the council’s behalf. These works involved the removal of trees and vegetation from the channel. The ongoing maintenance of the Castle Stream and Tolka River, Dunboyne, to prevent future flooding remains the responsibility of Meath County Council. However, in light of the Senator raising this matter, I will ask my officials to engage with Meath County Council. There are obviously avenues open to the council should it feel it needs financial assistance. While I cannot give guarantees on that pending an application, that may be an avenue open to it.

In respect of flood insurance, the Senator is correct in that it is an ongoing issue of concern for public representatives of various political persuasions. As part of the catchment flood risk assessment and management process, which is the overall mapping of flood risk in Ireland, I have reconvened the interdepartmental group to look at what we call the whole-of-government issues relating to flooding. One of these is flood insurance. The Department of Finance is the lead Department with responsibility for that and that is one area along with a number of others that are due to report to the Government in the spring in respect of where we want to go in terms of a policy objective. I also note the work of the Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and the Oireachtas Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht, which have both produced reports with their thoughts on policies that should be pursued in respect of flood insurance. I will ensure that these are fed in to that interdepartmental group.

24/09/2015B00200Senator Thomas Byrne: I thank the Minister of State. I have no question for him. I am glad that he has said that his officials will liaise with the local authority because the councillors, including my colleague, Damien O’Reilly, have been in touch with the Department and the OPW on the understanding that they had responsibility here so the Minister of State has clarified that. I am sure Councillor O’Reilly and my colleagues on Meath County Council will take this up with the council. I again stress that this is a fantastic project and we are just interested 85 Seanad Éireann in making sure it stays this way and that nothing happens to degrade in any way.

24/09/2015B00300Air Services Provision

24/09/2015B00400Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sé an-ghnóthach sa Dáil. Mar sin, tá mé an-bhuíoch go bhfuil sé ag caitheamh a chuid ama anseo.

The Minister of State knows that I have spoken with him about this issue in one-to-one meetings in Connemara. I hope the Minister of State can give us an update on the air service to the Aran Islands that can reassure the islanders that they will have a service as of 1 October in the short term and in the future. The air service to which I am referring is a airplane service. They want a fixed-wing aircraft from Minna in Connemara. Nothing else will suit them and to be fair, they are the end users. They are the customers and any reasonable public official or Department would take the end users’ needs into account. The Minister of State knows that Aer Arann’s contract expires at the end of this month. That is in six days’ time so I would like him to address that question. Will there be an air service as of 1 October?

I presume the Minister of State knows that as of yesterday, councillors on Galway County Council voted unanimously to block the use of Galway Airport for the provision of air services to the Aran Islands after 15 December so the preferred tenderer that his Department has chosen has no airport to fly from. In that case, the preferred tenderer was a helicopter service which in any case is not the wish of the islanders.

I will run through a few separate points. The islanders’ requirements were never taken into account when drawing up the tender document - why? The issue of respect is fundamental here. The Minister of State knows that they want their service from Connemara because it gives them choice in the sense that the boat is nearby. If they miss the plane, they have the boat. There is no other way to get to the islands. You have to cross water. I was in Inis Meáin at the weekend. You are always rushing to the boat. I live beside Galway Airport - the airport with the preferred tender. It took me one hour and 15 minutes to get to the boat on a Sunday morning at 9 a.m. It would take a minimum of two hours with the traffic in Galway city to get from Galway Airport to Rossaveal in the event that someone needed to get the boat instead of a plane if the helicopter did not work out.

Galway Airport is unsuitable for the needs of the islanders for the reasons I have outlined. No other regular offshore island service in Europe is supplied by helicopter. The Scottish islands are the ones that are most similar to the Aran Islands and they have many island air services. All Scottish islands are served by fixed-wing aircraft known as the “Islander”. They are preferred for their reliability and safety in open Atlantic conditions. There is an issue here about crossing water. I have spoken to people who have worked in helicopter services for 20 years and they have told me that helicopters are quite reliable on land but are not as reliable over water. If they have to land, they turn upside down. I looked at the statistics as well and in Ireland, there is some statistical information to show that helicopters are less safe than fixed- wing aircraft. Feeling safe matters to people.

Look at the human stories. The Minister of State knows that there is a massive campaign here that is not going to stop. My question to him concerns how he is going to resolve it and when. Will he take the wishes of the islanders into account? A woman appeared on “Prime 86 24 September 2015 Time” last week. I did not see the programme. She is 80 years of age and was very upset. She has not used any form of transport other than the plane for the past 45 years. Some older people on the islands are telling me that they will not make their appointments or go to Galway University Hospital if they have to take the boat. They have come to rely on the air service and they are happier that way. A woman with diabetes gets sick if she goes on a boat so her life or health could be put at risk if she vomited, for example. There are people attending Galway University Hospital for chemotherapy and stroke victims whose preferred mode of transport is a air service. They deserve equality of treatment. Surely we need the options. When it comes to an air service, their wish is for a fixed-wing airplane from Connemara Airport in Minna. That is the requirement. Will the Minister of State put this out to tender again because the preferred tender has fallen apart?

24/09/2015B00500Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Joe McHugh): I thank the Senator for raising this important issue and I acknowledge that her colleague, Senator Naughton, has been in contact with me on a regular basis about this important issue. I should say that since the air service is the subject of an ongoing public procurement process, I have been advised that it would not be appropriate to make any comment on that process or to say anything that might prejudice it in any way or prejudice any appeal that might be made with regard to the outcome of the procurement process by way of a judicial review to the High Court. From the outset, it has always been my aim to ensure that there is a continuation of an air service for the Aran Islands. As required under the relevant EU regulation, my Depart- ment commissioned a comprehensive review of the need for a PSO service to the Aran Islands in 2014. This review was published in May of last year. The review covered the period 2003 to 2013 and I am satisfied that this review was both rigorous in its investigations and fair in its findings. The review recognised the importance of the air service to the island communities and its contribution to island life.

At the same time, the report recognised that the cost of providing the air service had increased dramatically by 136% during the ten-year period under review, that the efficiency of the programme had deteriorated over the period in question and that the continuation of this trend into the future was unsustainable. Based on the report’s recommendations and mindful of the need for value for money in providing this service, my Department requested that the Office of Government Procurement, OGP, as the agency charged by the Government with administering procurement services for the State, undertake a tendering process in order to put in place an air service contract for the period from 1 October 2015 to 30 September 2019. Prior to this tendering process being undertaken, officials from my Department met with representatives of the island communities in order to listen to their views in regard to the service.

The tendering process was undertaken in accordance with the requirements of EU Regu- lation 1008/2008 which governs public service obligations and air services. I am sure the Seanadóir will appreciate that, as Minister for State, I had no involvement in the procurement process itself following my decision that a PSO air service should continue to be provided. I am, of course, well aware of the issues Senator Healy-Eames has raised today about the mainland departure point for the air service and the type of aircraft to be used.

On Galway Airport being included in the request for tenders, I would like to make it clear that, from the time this PSO route was originally established under EU regulations in 2001, both Galway Airport and Na Minna Airport were identified as mainland departure points. This allows for the widest possible competition and consequential potential for value for money, which must be a central component in any service to be paid for out of the public purse. It is 87 Seanad Éireann important to emphasise that this tender competition, in so far as it pertains to the inclusion of the mainland departure points of Galway Airport and Na Minna Airport, does not in any way deviate from previous tender competitions for this service.

On the type of aircraft that can be used to provide this service, the request for tenders allowed for all types of aircraft, as Regulations (EC) No. 1008/2008 does not define or limit the categories of aircraft to which PSO routes may be offered.

I have met representatives of the island communities on a number of occasions since the announcement of the preferred tenderer and their concerns about the tendering process and the future of the air service have been brought to my attention. I want to assure the Seanadóir and everyone concerned that I will continue to endeavour, within the scope available to me, to ensure that an air service that serves the interests of the islands continues into the future. I am conscious of the time pressures and that the current contract comes to an end at the end of this month. I am aware of the meeting that took place in Galway yesterday. I ask today for space to allow the people in the OGP tasked with the responsibility of carrying out the process and the officials from my Department to evaluate a number of issues which have arisen in the recent past. I also wish to acknowledge the fact that there have been a number of meetings on the islands, some of which were attended by politicians. I understand 18 politicians went to the public meetings on the three islands. The feedback I am receiving from various politicians is that all those meetings were held in a very dignified way and I wish to acknowledge that fact as well.

24/09/2015C00200Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: The Minister of State will certainly get the space from me, but 1 October is looming. In his supplementary response, will the Minister of State clarify if he expects a service to be in place after 1 October, which is in six or seven days’ time? The Minister of State said that prior to the tendering process, officials from his Department met with representatives of the island communities. What did the officials hear? Did they hear from the islanders that a helicopter service from Galway Airport would be satisfactory? I am quite sure they did not hear that. This is fundamental.

As I said, I was on Inis Meáin at the weekend and I met all the children and the teachers in the two schools. The one question put to me was why the Minister of State will not visit the islands. I thought it was meant in good spirit although I know the Minister of State might feel he is under fire. They put questions to me about matters on which I would not necessarily agree with them. However, out of respect to the islanders, it would be good if the Minister of State visited and heard from them. He does not have to give his decision there and then when on the island, but he should at least show that our islanders will be given fair treatment by him. I have no doubt he can look at this matter. Will the Minister of State address those points?

24/09/2015C00300Deputy Joe McHugh: On the first question relating to the meetings I had with the island communities prior to this tendering process, the message was loud and clear that they wanted to keep their air service, and I ensured there was a protection in place to keep it. To repeat again, once I gave permission or the green light to the OGP to take charge of this process, I was outside that process. Senator Healy-Eames would be the first to tell me if a politician was interfering in an independent process. She would tell me I should not be involved in it. I came into politics in 1999, a time when there was tribunals about this and that where politicians did get involved in processes. It is important to make that statement.

I spent a wonderful time on the Aran Islands a number of years ago. As a politician and as Minister of State with special responsibility for the islands, I wanted in the first 12 months of 88 24 September 2015 my tenure to go to the islands I had never visited. I had never been to Sherkin Island, off the coast of Cork, or Bere Island, where I had a wonderful experience. I had never been to Tory Island, but I have been there now. I have an outstanding invitation to Inishbofin, where there was an issue with bus transportation services. We sorted that issue and I would like to acknowledge the leadership shown on the island. I look forward to going to the Aran Islands and to the ongoing conversations and communications that need to happen. I appreciate Senator Healy- Eames’s giving of the space to do that, but I am also conscious of the fact that the end of the month is near.

I would like once again to acknowledge agus m’aitheantas a ghabháil don cheannasaíocht chumasach ar na hoileáin. Chuala mé go raibh na cruinnithe éagsúla ar na hoileáin iontach dínithe. Chuala mé fosta go bhfuil an cumarsáid atá ar siúl idir an comhairle contae agus na daoine sa Teach seo agus sa Teach eile iontach dearfach agus go bhfuil cumarsáid oscailte ann. Chuala mé an díospóireacht agus cím na deacrachtaí atá ann. Tá cuid mhór deacrachtaí ann ó thaobh achan rud ar na hoileáin idir pholasaithe éagsúla agus eile. Ba mhaith liom a chur in iúl agus caithfear a chur in iúl arís m’aitheantas don obair chruaidh atá á dhéanamh ag na daoine san OGP. Ba orthu a raibh an dúshlán maidir leis an bpróiseas tairisceana. Tá an próiseas fós beo agus sin an fáth nach bhfuil mé ábalta cur isteach air.

24/09/2015C00400Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Caithfidh an tAire Stáit a bheith cúramach not to hide too much behind the official process while in the meantime leaving the islanders feeling distraught. Now is the time to visit the Aran Islands. Is anois an t-am ceart.

24/09/2015C00500Deputy Joe McHugh: Cím é sin agus tuigim an tábhacht agus an ceangal liomsa mar Aire Stáit na Gaeltachta. Tá dualgas ollmhór orm ó thaobh na hoileáin de. Táim anseo agus tuigim go bhfuil an dualgas seo orm agus go bhfuil ról tábhachtach agam ó thaobh mhuintir na n-oileán. I take my position very seriously and I understand that I have a specific responsibility in the Department. I ask today that the OGP and my officials are allowed to have that important conversation. New information is coming through and time is required, but I am conscious that the service to the island is key, that the current contract is coming to an end at the end of the month and that there is a need for leanúnachas or continuity of service after 1 October.

Sitting suspended at 11 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.

24/09/2015G00100Order of Business

24/09/2015G00200Senator Maurice Cummins: The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re the notification of a vacancy in Seanad Éireann arising from the resignation of Senator Jimmy Harte, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business without debate; No. 2, motion re referral to committee of the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 4(7)) (Membership of Council) Regulations 2015, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 1 without debate; No. 3, Minerals Development Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 1 p.m. and to conclude not later than 3 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 4, Choice of Court (Hague Convention) Bill 2015 – Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 3 p.m. and to conclude not later than 5 p.m., if not previously concluded. 89 Seanad Éireann

24/09/2015G00300Senator Terry Leyden: The Opposition accepts the Order of Business for today and will work with the Government in that regard.

With regard to the regrettable by-election caused by the resignation of Mr. Jimmy Harte, does Fine Gael intend to contest it or will it hand over to an Independent on this occasion? I am sure our friend will be delighted to contest-----

24/09/2015G00400An Cathaoirleach: That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

24/09/2015G00500Senator Terry Leyden: -----or to the agreement that the Labour Party’s candidate will be the sole Government candidate in this regard. I hope the person selected will be-----

24/09/2015G00600An Cathaoirleach: That is not a matter for the Order of Business today.

24/09/2015G00700Senator Terry Leyden: I am only giving advice that the candidate should be suitably qualified and not retrospectively qualified for the position, which concerns the industry and commerce portfolio. That is very important and I have tried-----

24/09/2015G00800Senator James Heffernan: We do not want a repeat of what happened last year. We are trying to put up with Senator Craughwell.

24/09/2015G00900Senator Terry Leyden: I am trying to encourage the Government to be very conscious of the situation. Of course, the Fianna Fáil Party-----

24/09/2015G01000An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is only filling time.

24/09/2015G01100Senator Terry Leyden: I am not, actually, I am filling very useful time. Fianna Fáil will be contesting this by-election. As would be normal, we will be putting forward a candidate.

24/09/2015G01200Senator Mark Daly: Vigorously.

24/09/2015G01300Senator Terry Leyden: We will be contesting it vigorously. It will be interesting to see the reaction of the Labour Party in this regard. I encourage the Government parties not to take the action they took the last time. Retrospective qualifications are not acceptable in this House. It was a frightening and sinister activity on the part of the Government.

Will the Leader arrange for the appropriate Minister, whether it is the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport or the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, to come to the House to discuss the regrettable decision by Paddy Cosgrave yesterday to transfer the Web Summit, which was established in Dublin and was very successful over several years, to Lisbon? It attracted 30,000 visitors to Ireland and generated €140 million in income for the country. One can rightfully criticise the hoteliers and others for this decision but this is not the real reason for the proposed transfer of this major conference to Lisbon from 2016 to 2019. It was a significant boost to the economy, attracted many of the top web developers from around the world and resulted in the creation of many worthwhile jobs. The contribution of Bono to this summit has been enormous too.

I hope the Government decides to hold an international conference in Ireland in 2016, bearing in mind that Ireland, not Lisbon, is the Silicon Valley of Europe. All the major web companies are located in Ireland and they are very successful here. Will the Leader seek a debate on the hosting of international conferences in Ireland? The Convention Centre Dublin on the quays was built under a progressive Fianna Fáil Government and should be utilised in more

90 24 September 2015 ways than one, as it is a wonderful asset. As a former Minister of State with responsibility for trade, I arranged many successful conferences in Ireland with An Bord Tráchtála. We have bril- liant people working in the public service who would be delighted to have the opportunity to hold the largest and most successful web conference in Dublin in 2016 and beyond.

24/09/2015H00200An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is way over time. I call Senator Bacik.

24/09/2015H00300Senator Terry Leyden: We do not always have to depend on the public service, however. We - Ireland - can do it.

24/09/2015H00400Senator Ivana Bacik: It is regrettable that we are moving to a by-election in the Se- anad. Many Members, including myself, expressed our deep regret about our colleague Jimmy Harte’s resignation. Yesterday, all of us wished him well in his retirement and for his speedy recovery. I am not going to descend to making any sort of cheap political points about the unfortunate fact that we will have a by-election to fill his absence. We sorely miss him.

I thank the Leader for indicating yesterday that next week we will be debating a motion on the terrible humanitarian crisis in Syria. However, I am glad that since yesterday a package of measures has been agreed at the European Council with €1 billion promised in aid to resolve the crisis we are seeing with refugees gathering on the borders of Europe.

Yesterday, it was remiss of me not to commend our colleague, Senator Hayden, on the publication earlier this week of the Threshold report on its Dublin tenancy protection service. I commend her for all the work she has done in this area and support her calls for a debate on the issues contained in the report.

I commend the Irish Association for the Social Integration of Offenders, IASIO, on the publication of its biennial report for 2014-2015. I was glad to attend the report’s official launch by the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. I commend Paddy Richard- son, chief executive of IASIO, and its staff for the significant work they have done in seeking to rehabilitate and reintegrate ex-offenders into the community. They have some really strong success stories from the past two years, including over 1,200 employment placements and 433 community returns successfully completed. The organisation is doing an important service for rehabilitation.

While we have had debates on rehabilitation before, will the Leader organise another one? I would also hope that such a debate on rehabilitation and crime generally would be done with a focus on rural crime which was highlighted so much at the ploughing championships this week. All of us welcomed the announcement this week by the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, and the Government of the €30 million rural regeneration and investment in rural communities package.

I have a couple of suggestions as to the crime prevention projects on which some of that money could be spent. In particular, there could be an extension of some ongoing Garda schemes such as the crime prevention ambassadors, a scheme particularly useful for older people in rural communities, and the community CCTV programmes in rural areas. I will be writing to the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, on this but we should have a broad debate on crime prevention and the rehabilitation of offenders.

24/09/2015H00500Senator Sean D. Barrett: I echo Senator Bacik and others in their sentiments of apprecia- tion for Jimmy Harte and Paddy Harte. Paddy Harte and Glenn Barr did such work in promot- 91 Seanad Éireann ing reconciliation on this island, long before it had entered the political mainstream. We will miss Jimmy Harte very much in this House.

I wish to raise the closure of the School of Modern Languages at the Ulster University in Coleraine as an economy measure. It has resulted in the loss of 1,250 student places in languages in the north west of the country, as well as 120 posts. We need more language teaching in Ireland, North and South. There is an emphasis these days on teaching languages at an earlier age, perhaps introducing it in primary schools. The Minister for Education and Skills is a language graduate herself. Will she consider a debate on this issue and the implication that a narrow utilitarian view of education could lead to losses? It is a wrong decision in Northern Ireland. That society needs more diversity, not less. It has implications, however, for the entire island of Ireland in trying to promote the smart economy and a broader minded society. Will the Leader ask if the Minister for Education and Skills will debate the implications of that closure for education in the entire country?

24/09/2015H00600An Cathaoirleach: Several Senators did not get in yesterday, so I gave a commitment they would be taken early today. I call on Senator Martin Conway.

24/09/2015H00700Senator Martin Conway: I thank the Cathaoirleach. Yesterday would have been the day for me to pay tribute to our former colleague, Jimmy Harte. I have known Jimmy for many years. When he was a county councillor, my first engagement with him was when the All- Ireland fleadh was in Letterkenny and asking him to accommodate people from Clare. I have no doubt he will look for the compliment to be returned when the fleadh comes to Ennis. Jimmy was a soft-spoken gentleman from Donegal with deep conviction, a deep sense of social justice and doing what is right for ordinary people. In his short time in this House, his legacy will live on, not just in this House but in politics, following the long tradition of his father, Paddy.

An issue around transport provision arose in Clare over the summer. I have always been a great proponent of facilitating private transport operators. We have seen the dramatic success of such facilitation with the granting of a licence for low-cost fares and convenient travel to Mi- chael O’Leary and Ryanair, which will carry over 100 million passengers this year. Similarly, Dublin Coach, founded by John O’Sullivan, a native of County Clare, is now providing cost- effective and cheap connectivity on an hourly basis from Dublin to several parts of Ireland. It is a good and positive development which means people can go to Dublin to the theatre, a show or a match in the evening and return to Clare, Kerry and other places that same evening. The problem is that there are restrictions on his licence which do not serve the customer or make sense. At certain times of the day during the morning and the evening, Dublin Coach is not allowed to pick up or drop people on Arthurs Quay in Limerick. Similarly, he cannot pick people up in Newcastle West or Abbeyfeale.

24/09/2015H00800An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is way over time.

24/09/2015H00900Senator Martin Conway: Will you give me a minute, a Chathaoirligh?

24/09/2015H01000An Cathaoirleach: You only have two minutes altogether.

24/09/2015H01100Senator Martin Conway: His licence prevents him from doing this, although his coaches are passing through the places in question several times an hour. Will the Leader contact the National Transport Authority to lift these punitive and ridiculous restrictions on Dublin Coach’s licences?

92 24 September 2015

24/09/2015H01200Senator James Heffernan: Senator Martin Conway seems to have drifted into County Limerick. He might be best to get on the ferry in Tarbert and head back to Clare. I join colleagues in the tributes that were paid yesterday and today to Senator Jimmy Harte. What happened to Senator Harte was tragic and unfortunate. We wish him the best. It is not long since Senator Crown, Senator Harte and I were in Gdansk and Poznan in Poland at the time of the European Championships. It is a pity to see what has happened and we wish him the very best.

I congratulate and wish the very best of luck to Glenna Lynch and Cian O’Callaghan in their election campaigns, the newest members of the Social Democrats, who declared this morning.

There have been many announcements this week and it seems that the place to be for good news announcements is the ploughing championships at Ratheniska. Yesterday there was a tre- mendous commitment made to rural Ireland. It makes me laugh when I see the Government’s mealy-mouthed commitment. This is its final year in office and it has decided to announce a €30 million rural regeneration scheme to be introduced over five years, which is €6 million per year. If one divides that by the number of parishes in Ireland, there is approximately €2,000 per parish on offer. What kind of regeneration will that bring? When one travels throughout the country, one can see that rural Ireland is fighting on its back in an effort to remain vibrant and thriving and to survive. This kind of mealy-mouthed commitment does nothing to stem the tide of people leaving rural Ireland. This highlights the Government’s commitment to rural affairs and rural issues.

24/09/2015J00200An Cathaoirleach: Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

24/09/2015J00300Senator James Heffernan: Yes. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence and I will talk to him on another date about speaking time.

There is a conflict between the Departments of Environment, Community and Local Gov- ernment and Communications, Energy and Natural Resources in respect of wind energy. The Government seems to want to destroy our country with wind farms and wind technology that is obsolete. The latter are a stain on our landscape, which is the only thing we have in rural Ire- land. In the area of County Limerick in which I live, we are trying to develop a tourist structure around rural Ireland. There is a drive to cover the country in wind farms without examining the possibility of converting existing energy stations to burn renewables such miscanthus, etc.

24/09/2015J00400An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is way over time.

24/09/2015J00500Senator James Heffernan: There is a need for an urgent debate on our 2020 targets and environmental matters.

24/09/2015J00600Senator Terry Brennan: I, too, wish to acknowledge the contribution made by Senator Jimmy Harte in his short period in this House. He is a man of great conviction and, as one of our colleagues mentioned yesterday, he is fearless individual who has suffered greatly. His family also suffered greatly and his house was attacked during the Troubles, but it not deter him. I wish him continued good health and success in his retirement.

The CSO figures that were published at the weekend confirm strong growth in revenue from overseas visitors for the first six months of 2015. Spending in Ireland by overseas visitors for the first half of 2015 rose by 16.2% compared with the same period last year. The figures also show that the number of holidaymakers increased by more than 20% and that spending by these visitors was up 34.5% for January to June when compared with the figures for January to June 93 Seanad Éireann 2014. That is good news for tourism.

The loss of the Web Summit is to be regretted. During last year’s event, there was a phe- nomenal increase in hotel prices in Dublin of the order of 500% to 600%. People who stay in these hotels regularly throughout the year are now unable to do so. That may have been one of the reasons why the event has been moved. This is a regrettable development and I hope that Dublin will play host to an alternative convention.

24/09/2015J00700Senator Ned O’Sullivan: I convey my very best wishes to Senator Jimmy Harte and I wish him all the best in his retirement. This is a hard day for the Senator because it was a proud moment for him when he was elected as a Member of the Oireachtas. We did not anticipate that he would not see out the term. We wish him well.

I am in a positive mood today and I would like to be positive about a few things. It was marvellous to see the Pope in Cuba and to see the exchange of embassies between the United States and Cuba of late. It is remarkable when one considers the foolishness of the past 40 years, when those two neighbouring countries that should have been close friends were actually at each other’s throats for so long - so much so that they almost precipitated a nuclear war. It is a message to the major powers that the quicker they bury their differences and work together for the good of the entire global community, the better off we will all be.

According to recent reports, TG4 is finding it very difficult to make ends meet. Even with the Government grant last year, the station will probably be in deficit. TG4 deserves better than that. In the forthcoming budget, I would like to see a proper deontas for TG4. Lately, I was laid up and unable to attend the race meeting in my native Listowel, which I regretted deeply, but I was able to watch the whole thing on TG4 for the entire week. Not only did it show the racing, it also showed interaction between the locals and people from the larger rural community across Munster. It interviewed ordinary guys; it was not all about racing, jockeys, and form. TG4 of- fers the kind of community service that RTE is not in a position to provide. Even leaving aside what the station is doing for Gaeilge, I think it should be treated better. I ask the Leader to bring this matter to the attention of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, particularly as the latter now has bags full of money to give away.

24/09/2015J00800Senator Mary M. White: I request a debate on the joint Oireachtas committee report on key issues for female entrepreneurs in Ireland and for their participation in the tech sector - in respect of which I had the honour to act as rapporteur - and ask that the Minister for Jobs, En- terprise and Innovation come before the House to engage in said debate. My presentation was unanimously accepted by the membership of the joint Oireachtas committee, including Senator Mullins who is sitting behind the Leader. There are 12 recommendations in the presentation and each of them is very important. However, I want to draw attention to one recommendation today because it is parallel to a statement made by the Irish Tax Institute this week which highlighted that Ireland is not advancing up the global rankings on entrepreneurship. Key Irish entrepreneurs and business leaders have expressed serious concern about our tax environment. As a small open economy, Ireland’s export sales are necessary in order to sustain both our standard of living and existing employment and to create new employment. It is a sad fact that there is still 9.5% unemployment and that the figure for youth unemployment stands at almost 21%, which represents a loss of human capital. In July 2015, the National Competitiveness Council drew attention to the hundreds of third level graduates who have left this country.

12 o’clock 94 24 September 2015 This is the key point. The Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation suggested that, in the next budget, the Government should remove the tax discrimination facing self- employed entrepreneurs, including PAYE tax credit and the lack of social welfare rights. The Government should consider an entrepreneurs’ capital tax at a much lower rate than the current horrendous 33% capital tax rate.

24/09/2015K00200An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is out of time.

24/09/2015K00300Senator Mary M. White: What is happening at the moment is very worrying. Many Irish potential entrepreneurs are leaving to set up businesses in the UK and the United States because of our horrendous 33% capital acquisitions tax.

24/09/2015K00400Senator Mary Ann O’Brien: I support Senator White on the call to bring down capital gains tax. It is utterly ridiculous at 33%. We will actually get more money in if we bring it down. I would not agree, however, on female entrepreneurs. Being a female entrepreneur - if I even understand that word - being a person, anyway, who has been in business since I was 16, I never had a problem. I do not know whether I am female or male when I am out there in business. To me that is a load of balderdash.

24/09/2015K00500An Cathaoirleach: Senator White on a point of order.

24/09/2015K00600Senator Mary M. White: If as many women set up businesses as men every month, we would have 500 extra jobs a month.

24/09/2015K00700An Cathaoirleach: That is not a point of order, Senator.

24/09/2015K00800Senator Mary Ann O’Brien: I rise today to talk about charity regulation in Ireland or the lack thereof. I cannot believe I am coming back to this subject. I wrote a report in 2012, I think, just to give colleagues a quick reminder. Do my colleagues know how much money the Government gives to charities in Ireland each year? It gives in excess of €4 billion. My colleagues should think of all the schools in Ireland and imagine if the students’ copybooks were not marked. There is nobody in Ireland who is in charity whose copybook is marked because we do not have a regulator. Are charities compliant with best practice such as codes of gov- ernance and fundraising? How efficient are the charities that receive public money? Are they measured or held accountable? The answer is “No”.

Does the Government have a database of charities? This is going well. The new regulator is getting there on a database, even though we had one before via Patricia Quinn and INKEx, which we shelved before we started the regulator. We are building a new one.

Does the Government know the combined spend on payroll, overheads or marketing in all the charities in Ireland? No. The Daily Telegraph carried a story yesterday about a very high- profile charity called ShelterBox, sponsored by no less than the Duchess of Cornwall. Huge fraud has taken place. The boss of that charity has given his son endless contracts and business. There is absolute murder going on. In the Daily Mail last week we also had the RSPCA, Save the Children, the NSPCC and Oxfam all in before the regulator about aggressive fundraising and going after vulnerable people.

Some €4 billion from all the different silos and parts of our Government is going out. We have no regulation. I do not have to remind colleagues about Rehab and the CRC. There are a few other small ones that have appeared in the paper and, indeed, if colleagues care to buy the

95 Seanad Éireann Daily Mail this weekend, there is another scandal approaching. We have no regulator. I ask the Leader if the Minister could come in and talk to us about this.

Yesterday I did not get a chance to speak. The point on defibrillators made by Senator Fear- gal Quinn is a no-brainer. I know they are telling us we do not have the money, but for good- ness’ sake. There is VAT on defibrillators. If Senator O’Donnell and myself set up a GAA club out in south Dublin we would have to pay VAT on the defibrillator. That is something small which we could just take off.

Rural Ireland - €30 million - what an absolute joke. We need a debate on rural Ireland. I will have a lot more to say about that.

24/09/2015K00900Senator Michael Mullins: I support Senator White’s call for a discussion with the Minis- ter, Deputy Richard Bruton, on the joint Oireachtas report that was published recently. I know she has put a lot of work and effort into it. I would like to see our discussion with the Minister encompassing the Action Plan for Jobs 2015 to see how we can accelerate the 1,300 jobs per week that are being created. We need to create more and every opportunity should be taken to do so.

On the tourism issue raised by Senator Terry Brennan, I welcome the fact that revenue from overseas tourism will increase this year by 16.2%. The fact that the figure for visitors from North America is up by nearly 34% is particularly significant. We cannot be complacent and need to have a discussion with the Minister on the figures and on what we are doing right and what is going wrong.

I am certainly very concerned with some of the commentary on the reasons the Web Summit is going to Lisbon and the fact that hotel prices in Dublin seem to be an issue. We are all very conscious of the significant rise in accommodation prices here, at a time when the hospitality industry is lobbying to ensure that the VAT rate is retained at 9%. A commitment was given when VAT was reduced to 9% for the hospitality industry, that the industry would play ball and ensure that its prices were kept competitive. Some elements of the sector are certainly not keeping to their end of the bargain. That has to be a major concern for all of us. While many of the restaurants and other aspects of the sector are doing their best to keep prices under control, the hotel sector certainly needs to be called to book on this.

24/09/2015K01000Senator Kathryn Reilly: Yesterday on the Order of Business, and indeed this morning, we heard about the €30 million of rural funding that was announced. I know the Leader was asked yesterday to have a debate on rural Ireland and this issue. The package that was announced by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, and the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, at the ploughing championships is going to run for six years from 2016. It is my understanding that it is designed to channel funds via local authorities, for example for renovating derelict buildings, regenerating vacant sites or upgrading street lighting. Further details are to be announced in the coming week.

The Taoiseach said he hoped the funding would address infrastructural blockages in rural Ireland. However, when we start talking about revitalising and regenerating rural Ireland, or eliminating the two-tier economy between urban and rural areas, we must also consider services. When the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government or indeed the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, come to the House to discuss the funding and the broader issues around rural Ireland, I hope we will also address their proposals on the amalgamation of

96 24 September 2015 services. Proposals from the Department to amalgamate, for example, fire and library services have caused concern in some areas. Communities are understandably upset by the proposals, as they will undermine the ability of counties to protect their own local services. The Department is seeking to amalgamate these services in a number of areas, including Cavan and Monaghan.

Another report, “Managing the Delivery of Effective Library Services”, recommends a uni- fied management structure for the operation of these services only. There is grave concern about where this proposal will ultimately lead. When we start talking about more effective, leaner services, what strikes people is a reduction in finances and how the same services are to be provided when two counties have to start drawing from the same pool.

We have heard rhetoric on streamlined, more efficient services before and it is often trans- lated into budget cuts, reduced hours, possible staff cuts and worse; it has resulted in some closures. We just need to look at Garda stations, post offices and banks for that. First come efficiencies, then come cuts and closures and, when a service is gone, we all know that it is gone. We have heard it all before; we have heard about efficiencies in our public services. It does equate to cutbacks and job losses. I do not think we can talk about rural funding and the funding that is going to be coming to local authorities without discussing these issues, which are central to rural Ireland and its communities.

24/09/2015K01100Senator John Gilroy: Yesterday and again this morning we heard much comment about the loss of the Web Summit to Lisbon. While the reasons for it are probably varied and complex, the cost of accommodation here----

24/09/2015K01200Senator Mary M. White: It is about money and greed.

24/09/2015K01300Senator John Gilroy: While the cost of accommodation here in the city is certainly a factor, I want to draw attention to what might be another factor in this decision. Back in 2013 for the entire period of the Web Summit, there was a water shortage here in Dublin. When there were 30,000 international and national entrepreneurs and high-tech businesses coming here to experience the Irish ambiance for entrepreneurship, they found themselves not being able to have a shower and restaurants were unable to serve water. It might just cause those who are opposed to paying for water and for investment in water to reflect on the logical consequences of their decisions. This is one of them. While I am not saying this is the single and only reason for the loss of the Web Summit it certainly must be a contributory factor.

Can the Leader arrange for a debate on local government reform in light of the proposed amalgamation of Cork city and county councils? I am fully in favour of the reform. Accord- ing to reports in the media today there is only a 5% vacancy in office space in Dublin, at a time when we are trying to attract more investment. In the regions, and Cork is the major region, we could take advantage of this opportunity if we get our decision making and administrative processes in order. We could then talk seriously about regional development. We could maybe include in that debate the overwhelmingly important possibility of the devolution of the powers from central government to local government. This is overdue.

24/09/2015L00200Senator Marie-Louise O’Donnell: Will the Leader invite the Minister for Health to the House because I would like us to have a debate on our ageing population? The demographic of our population is quite outstanding. It is alarming that 65% of us will be over 65 in the next 15 years and we need to plan for it.

The reason we fail in Ireland is that we do not plan. Homelessness is a very complex prob- 97 Seanad Éireann lem. One of the reasons it is so bad at the moment is that we did not plan. A total of 68% of us do not even have a will. We do not even plan personally, let alone as organisations or as a country. We did not have a plan for Irish Water. We do not have a plan for housing and we did not plan ahead for transport. We need a plan for our ageing population. We are institutionalis- ing far too many of our older people and not giving them independent living. According to the Alone report, of the 36,000 people in very good institutions and care homes, 12,000 did not need to be there. I suggest that we need the Minister in here because we could create a fair deal within homes, not just within institutions or within care homes. I see my job in the Seanad as some kind of a Government adviser on how to plan and how to exercise more perception, and how to exercise more strategic thinking for the future and we need the Minister in here to help him to do just that in our last session.

24/09/2015L00300Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Gabhaim gach dea-ghuí ar an Seanadóir Jimmy Harte. Is iomaí spalla a bhíodh mé féin agus Jimmy ag caitheamh le chéile trasna úrlár an tSeanaid ach ar deireadh thiar bhíomar cairdiúil go leor ar bhonn pearsanta. Guím gach rath air sa todhchaí leis an dúshlán mór atá roimhe.

Ba mhaith liom freisin go mbeadh díospóireacht againn maidir le cúrsaí oileáin. Tá ionsaí leanúnach á dhéanamh ag an Rialtas seo ar na hoileáin agus ní sa ghné is deireanaí maidir leis an tseirbhís aeir go hÁrainn ach gné amháin de.

I would like us to have a debate on this Government’s islands policy. It has been stated to me on many occasions over the summer that there appears to be a constant barrage of attacks on island services by this Government, such as the cuts to the ferry services, in particular to Inis Mór and the fact that the Government will not provide a second teacher in the primary school on Inis Meain, the people have had to depend on a private company to do that. There are problems in health provision from doctors and nurses on most of the islands. The Leader company, Com- har na nOileán, will be defunct if it is not given permission to continue. That certainly looks to be the policy of the Government.

The air service to the Aran Islands has been an absolute fiasco and the way it has been handled is a disgrace. We also see that the section in the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht that deals with the islands seems to have been slimmed down, starved of resources and really is not able to do its work. People tell me that amounts to an absolute attack on the life and livelihoods of people on the islands. It is very important that we have the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht in here to discuss the future viability and sustainability of our island populations, the wealth they bring to the nation, their importance and how important it is to support them in their efforts to maintain vital services on those islands and vibrant populations. It would be a very timely debate. I hope the Leader will be able to facilitate that debate as soon as possible.

24/09/2015L00400Senator Eamonn Coghlan: I add my voice to those who have referred to the retirement of Senator Harte, his contribution to his community and to Seanad Éireann. I met him on the first day I joined the Seanad. He was a fine gentleman and gave me some sound advice. There were many times during the first year or two of my time here when he put me to shame, particularly at lunch time when I saw him strip off in the fitness centre and go out training for his marathon running. All the goings on here in the Seanad pale in comparison to what he and his family have endured since that tragic fall. It makes us realise that our health is our wealth. I wish Senator Harte and his family the very best of luck as he continues to recover from that tragedy.

98 24 September 2015 With regard to Senator Leyden’s comments on the loss of the Web Summit, a general election is certainly in the air because it is not the Government’s fault that we have lost the Web Summit. It is not Tourism Ireland’s fault, or Ireland’s fault. This is all about business and the almighty dollar.

24/09/2015L00500Senator Mary M. White: Greed.

24/09/2015L00600Senator Eamonn Coghlan: The bottom line is the dollar.

24/09/2015L00700Senator Mary M. White: Despite all the support from Irish institutions.

24/09/2015L00800Senator Eamonn Coghlan: Having worked in Fáilte Ireland for many years as a younger man, I know conference venues change from city to city around the United States and around Europe. Ireland was lucky to host the Web Summit for three or four years. Digging deeper into Senator Leyden’s comments about its contribution of €140 million to the economy and the 30,000 guests who come to Ireland, it must be election time because his numbers are way off. I have heard of a contribution of €70 million or €100 million. If there are 30,000 people they are contributing almost €5,000 per person to the economy, yet we hear that almost half the people who attend the conference are not from overseas.

Tourism numbers are up and the conference centres have bookings all the way through to 2017 and beyond. It will not make a difference to tourism numbers. There are over 300,000 people attending the National Ploughing Championships as we speak. That makes an enormous contribution to Ireland, and to rural Ireland in particular. I spent the past three weeks travelling around rural Ireland working on a television series and found that the attitude in rural Ireland has changed dramatically for the better in recent years. Restaurants are booming, businesses seem to be booming. Ireland is back on its feet and we will see much better things in the near future.

24/09/2015L00900Senator Terry Leyden: When is the programme being broadcast? I would like to know. Is it on RTE, TV3 or UTV?

24/09/2015L01000Senator Paul Bradford: I support the request from Senator Gilroy that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government would come in to discuss the future of local government. No. 16 on the Order Paper would be a useful vehicle to initiate that debate. It is a Private Members’ motion signed by the majority of Senators.

I possibly differ from Senator Gilroy in that I have very serious doubts about what is being proposed in respect of Cork. Certainly reform is required but what the Minister apparently sug- gests is almost a trial run of regional government. As Senator Gilroy said, we certainly need to decentralise powers. I am an advocate of strong local government. I was an advocate of the town councils. One council serving almost 500,000 people sounds more like regional government than local government. Local government must contain and maintain the word “local”. We do have to reflect not just on Cork but on the future of local government across the country. The Minister has committed to a review of what was put in place last year. We are asking him to come to the House to debate that review. I simply request that the Cork situation be part of that review.

If the Leader has the opportunity over the next month or two could he invite the Minister for Finance to the House to discuss the future of credit unions? There is serious concern among members of the credit union movement that further regulations to be signed into law by the 99 Seanad Éireann Minister in late November or early December will have a negative impact on the credit union network. The voluntary credit union movement has been hugely successful. It has millions of members and provided significant finance for people during the years. We must try to protect and expand it rather than retract it. I appreciate that there were difficulties, but I understand they have been addressed. There is, however, genuine concern that sections of the most recent trade union legislation which are due to be signed into law and commenced by the Minister later this year will be detrimental. I would like him to come to the House to discuss his views. I would also like us to have the opportunity to express our views on how we could develop and expand the credit union network.

24/09/2015M00200Senator Jim D’Arcy: The national Famine commemoration will be held in Newry this Sat- urday, 26 September. It is the first time the commemoration will be held in the North and I hope many Senators will attend this important event, if they have the time to do so. It commemorates a bleak time in our history when the potato crop failed. I welcome the announcement by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, that €1 million will be spent on marketing the potato, which is an important part of our culture and heritage and a nutritious food, with all the vitamins one would want. I remember having champ on a Friday and I was able to go around like a Duracell bunny all day.

24/09/2015M00300Senator Jim Walsh: It is also called “colcannon”.

24/09/2015M00400Senator Jim D’Arcy: I would like the Minister to come to the House to outline how the potato will be marketed. To misquote an old saying, “A spud a day keeps the doctor away”. Some 36% of the potato crop is grown in the counties of Louth and Meath and the marketing fund is great news for these growers. The spud is great food and the Cooley spud is the best in the country. The great potato growers of Cooley - the Raffertys, the McCanns, the Malones, the Hanlons and probably the Brennans - could produce enough potatoes for the whole country if marketing funding was provided.

24/09/2015M00500Senator Terry Leyden: The Senator should bring some to Strasbourg next week.

24/09/2015M00600Senator Jim Walsh: For Senator Jim D’Arcy’s illumination, Carne potatoes from south Wexford are the best in the country. Former councillor Leo Carthy was a great proponent of them.

24/09/2015M00700Senator Jim D’Arcy: I have heard about them.

24/09/2015M00800Senator Jim Walsh: On the same issue, on a recent trip with the Joint Committee on For- eign Affairs and Trade to an Irish Aid programme in Malawi we were passing through a market in a rural area that was packed with people and all sorts of produce when some of the market traders came up to the windows of the minibus offering “Irish potatoes, Irish spuds” for sale. Apparently, Irish potatoes were introduced by Irish missionaries in the 19th century. I, therefore, concur with what Senator Jim D’Arcy had to say about potatoes.

I support the call made by Senator Paul Bradford for a debate on local government and concur with what he said. The trend to moving away from town councils to county councils which happened under the previous Minister is a mistake. We could get more value and more of an impact from local government if it was more closely associated with the people. In 2001 when the then Minister introduced the Bill, one of the options considered was having regional councils modelled on municipal or district areas feeding into a geographic region. For example, we could have a south-east regional council that would include subordinate municipal or dis- 100 24 September 2015 trict councils. We need a debate on this issue, but it must go beyond it and deal with the lack of empowerment of councillors. A review of the County Management Act is long overdue. The lodging of significant powers with an executive is never suitable to ensure proper democracy. We have the weakest local government system in Europe. Our system of government is highly centralised and we need greater devolution from the centre.

If possible, will the Minister for Finance attend the House next week for a pre-budget debate? I asked for such a debate previously. We need to debate issues such as inheritance tax, capital acquisition tax and USC. A meaningful debate would be helpful to the Minister in the final stages of refining his budgetary arrangements to be announced on 13 October. It would be a useful exercise for us and for him. I, therefore, ask the Leader to inform us whether such a debate can be arranged.

24/09/2015M00900Senator Maurice Cummins: Senator Terry Leyden asked about No. 1 on the Order Paper. I am sure the Labour Party will select a well qualified nominee to fill the position vacated by our friend and former colleague Jimmy Harte. I acknowledge that quite a number of Members did not have an opportunity yesterday to pay tribute to him for his work in the Seanad and to wish him well.

Senator Terry Leyden also mentioned the Web Summit. He was critical of Mr. Paddy Cos- grave yesterday because of the relocation of the summit to Portugal. We should praise Mr. Cosgrave for the work he has done in the past few years in holding the summit here and the jobs created as a result. It may be held here again at a later stage.

Senator Ivana Bacik complimented Senator Aideen Hayden on the Threshold report and called for a debate on the matter. She also called for a debate on the report on the rehabilitation of prisoners and crime prevention measures. We have a large legislative programme for the coming months and I am sure these issues, as well as the issue of rural crime, among others, can be accommodated in a number of debates on justice issues and legislation.

Senator Sean D. Barrett expressed concern about the closure of the School of Modern Lan- guages in the University of Ulster, Coleraine. The closure is regrettable as it is important to promote the teaching of modern languages. More people with languages are required as there is a lack of suitably qualified individuals. It is important, therefore, that such schools remain open. I am sure this issue will be raised at the North-South Ministerial Council and in other fora.

Senator Martin Conway raised an issue related to the National Transport Authority. Perhaps he might raise it as a Commencement matter.

Senator James Heffernan spoke about the allocation of €30 million for rural development. This sum is in addition to the hundreds of millions that will be pumped into rural Ireland by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and many other Departments and local enterprise organisations. The Senator also called for a debate on wind energy projects. We will try to facilitate such a debate, although we have already had a number of debates on the matter.

Senator Terry Brennan indicated the growth in the numbers of overseas visitors. This point was also made by Senators Michael Mullins and Eamonn Coghlan. The growth in the figures is excellent and should be highlighted. The figures for this year are exceptional and long may it continue. The Government’s policies, including the 9% VAT rate it decided to introduce a number of years ago, are bearing fruit in the creation of jobs and increasing tourist figures.

101 Seanad Éireann Senator O’Sullivan welcomed the visit of Pope Francis to Cuba and the USA. I note his points in that regard and also in regard to additional funding for TG4.

Senators White and Mullins called for a debate on the joint Oireachtas report on female entrepreneurs and also asked that tax measures would be included in the budget for various areas. Senator Walsh raised this point previously in regard to pre-budget submissions. I am happy to inform the House that we will have a debate with the Minister, Deputy Howlin, and hopefully with the Minister, Deputy Noonan, next week on pre-budget submissions. I am glad we can facilitate that request, which is coming at the right time.

Senator Mary Ann O’Brien raised the issue of charity regulation, which she has highlighted previously. We will try to arrange a further debate on it. I note her point in regard to VAT on defibrillators, which she can certainly raise with both Ministers in the House next week.

Senator Reilly referred to the concerns at the amalgamation of various services in local authorities and its effect on communities. I note her points. We can have that debate when we are dealing with a further debate. We had the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, in the House previously and we will try to have her in the House again. However, as I said, we have over 30 pieces of legislation to come to the House in this term, so we will be fairly busy after next week in dealing with legislation. I had expressed the opinion that we should have more Bills published as Seanad Bills, whereby we could bring them into the House earlier, rather than having a situation where we are rushing Bills at the end of term, which has gone on since Adam was a boy. I would hope we can deal with that legislation properly and give it the time it deserves in the coming weeks and months.

Senator Gilroy spoke about the Web Summit and made the point that in 2013 we had a water shortage and the 30,000 attending the summit, as well as the rest of the population, had diffi- culty even having a shower as a result. This is something people tend to forget.

Senators Gilroy, Bradford and Walsh raised points on local government reform and various issues in local government, and they called for a debate. The two Cork Senators also mentioned the amalgamation of Cork city and county councils, and I am sure that debate will go on for quite some time. I will try to facilitate a debate with the Minister, Deputy Kelly.

Senator O’Donnell highlighted the fact we have an ageing population and the need to plan for the future. She is quite right. It is an issue facing the country and there is a need to plan for it. I will certainly ask the Minister for Health to come to the House for a debate on that very important issue.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised the matter of island services. Some 64% of total island funding goes to the Aran Islands, a figure of which the Senator is probably aware. I understand the subsidy to the air service has gone up from €800,000 to €1.5 million or €2 million. I can assure the Senator that the Minister of State with responsibility for the islands and the Gaeltacht is doing everything possible to fight his corner for more money and better services for the people of the islands, as his predecessor did also.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan also pointed out some facts in regard to the Web Summit and tourism figures. In addition to dealing with local government reform, Senator Bradford made points in regard to credit unions, which he will be able to raise with the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform next week.

102 24 September 2015 Senator Jim D’Arcy highlighted the upcoming Famine commemoration and also the marketing of the potato and its importance in several areas around County Louth and Meath in particular. Of course, Senator Walsh pointed to the situation in Wexford also.

I think I have covered most of the items which Members have raised.

Order of Business agreed to.

24/09/2015N00300Resignation of Member: Motion

24/09/2015N00400Senator Maurice Cummins: I move:

That the Clerk of Seanad Éireann do send to the Minister for the Environment, Com- munity and Local Government notice of a vacancy in the membership of Seanad Éireann occasioned by the resignation of Senator Jimmy Harte, a member elected from the Oireach- tas Sub-Panel of the Industrial and Commercial Panel at the General Election for Seanad Éireann, April, 2011.

Question put and agreed to.

24/09/2015N00600Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 4(7)) (Membership of Council) Regulations 2015: Referral to Joint Committee

24/09/2015N00700Senator Maurice Cummins: I move:

That the proposal that Seanad Éireann approves the following Regulations in draft:

Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 4(7)) (Membership of Coun- cil) Regulations 2015,

copies of which have been laid in draft form before Seanad Éireann on 6 August, 2015, be referred to the Joint Committee on Health and Children, in accordance with Standing Order 70A(3)(j), which, not later than 8 October, 2015, shall send a message to the Seanad in the manner prescribed in Standing Order 73, and Standing Order 75(2) shall accordingly apply.”

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 12.35 p.m. and resumed at 1 p.m.

1 o’clock24/09/2015Q00100

Minerals Development Bill 2015: Order for Second Stage

Bill entitled an Act to make further and better provision for the development of minerals in the State and for that purpose to repeal the Minerals Company Acts 1941 to 1950 and certain provisions of the Minerals Development Acts 1940 to 1999, to make consequential amend- 103 Seanad Éireann ments to other Acts, and to provide for related matters.

24/09/2015Q00200Senator Maurice Cummins: I move: “That Second Stage be taken today.”

Question put and agreed to.

24/09/2015Q00350Minerals Development Bill 2015: Second Stage

Question proposed: “That the Bill be now read a Second Time.”

24/09/2015Q00387Acting Chairman (Senator Cáit Keane): I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh.

24/09/2015Q00400Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Re- sources (Deputy Joe McHugh): I wish to acknowledge the role that the former Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, has played in the preparation of this Bill. It is an extensive Bill and he has remained interested in it and has been in contact with me.

Tá acmhainneacht mhaith ag baint le geolaíocht ilghnéitheach na hÉireann ó thaobh fosu- ithe breise barainneacha mianraí a aimsiú de. Tá córas cuimsitheach rialaitheach i bhfeidhm againn do gach céim ó thaiscéalaíocht go forbairt mianraí, lena n-áirítear pleanáil le haghaidh dúnadh agus feabhsú mianach faoi dheireadh. Tá sé seo fíorthábhachtach agus is cúis mhuiníne san earnáil é. Déanann an reachtaíocht nua seo comhdhlúthú agus nuachóiriú ar an gcód sin in aon reacht amháin. Tá ár ngealltanas an cód rialaitheach a choinneáil cothrom le dáta ar na príomhchúiseanna a mheasann suirbhéanna idirnáisiúnta Éire a bheith ar na tíortha is fearr maidir leis seo go leanúnach.

I am very pleased to be here in the Seanad again and to have this opportunity to present the Minerals Development Bill 2015 for the consideration of the House. This Bill will repeal a suite of Acts dating from 1940 and will replace them with more up to date legislation so as to provide a modern regulatory regime for exploration and development of minerals, whether in State or private ownership. At 251 sections, it is one of the largest and most comprehensive Bills to come before the Oireachtas.

Before proceeding with a summary of the detailed provisions I would first like to offer some background to the minerals sector and existing legislation. Minerals exploration and development is currently regulated through the Minerals Development Acts 1940 to 1999. Exploration for economic deposits of minerals is carried out under prospecting licences, while mining of any such deposits requires a State mining lease, in the case of State minerals, or a State mining licence for privately owned minerals. Both exploration and mining are undertaken by private enterprise, although the Bill does retain a power for the State to undertake prospecting also.

I would like to make two things clear at the outset. In this Bill, the term “minerals” does not include water, stone, sand, gravel, clay, turf, peat or topsoil. Nor does it include petroleum, which is regulated under separate legislation. There are, therefore, no provisions in this Bill relating to oil or gas exploration and development, or to any techniques used in that industry such as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. Hydraulic fracturing is not a technique applied to prospecting or mining for minerals. I know that many Senators and Deputies have previously 104 24 September 2015 voiced their opinions and concerns on hydraulic fracturing but that is a matter for discussion on another occasion. The term “mining” refers to the extraction, or development, of mineral deposits, and in the Bill this activity is also referred to as “working”.

I will now turn to the context of mining and exploration in Ireland to give some background. Ireland is one of the leading zinc and lead mining countries in the world and continues to attract high levels of exploration interest and investment. An assessment of the contribution of the minerals sector to the Irish economy, which was published in 2013, indicates that it is an important sector and a vital contributor to the regional economy in the vicinity of operating mines. The report, by independent economic consultants Indecon Limited focused on 2012, when there were still three operating zinc - lead mines.

Indecon made the following key findings. In 2012, Ireland was Europe’s largest producer of zinc metal in concentrate and the tenth largest in the world and still holds that position today. In that year, Ireland was Europe’s third largest producer of lead metal in concentrate and 12th in the world. The direct output value of mining in Ireland in 2012 amounted to €426 million. During the same period exploration and mining activity supported over 1,300 jobs directly, with another 1,900 supported indirectly. Braitheann breis is 3,000 míle duine go díreach agus go hindíreach ar thaiscéalaíocht. These jobs are provided on a broad regional basis, which is important.

Exploration and mining companies contributed a total of €56 million in taxes to the exchequer during 2012. The State also benefits from payments made by mining and prospecting licence holders in the form of royalties, licence fees and payments which amounted to €9 million in 2012, and from indirect taxes and revenues. The broad contribution to the economy was estimated to be over €800 million, when the direct and indirect impacts of the wages and salaries of workers and the exploration expenditure of the companies are taken into account.

I will now turn to current legislative provisions. The minerals sector is significant therefore, and in order to continue to attract private investment a single national system for regulating mineral exploration, as well as clarity on the ownership of mineral rights, is essential. The Bill will replace legislation, dating from 1940, with modern streamlined statutory provisions. The minerals industry is currently regulated by the Minerals Development Acts 1940 to 1999 com- prising five statutes: the Minerals Development Act 1940; Part III of the Petroleum and other Minerals Development Act 1960; the Minerals Development Act 1979; the Minerals Develop- ment Act 1995; and the Minerals Development Act 1999. Those Acts included provisions for: regulating minerals prospecting and development; a statutory vesting of the exclusive right to work minerals in the Minister, subject to the payment of compensation; acquisition of other rights necessary for efficient development of minerals, subject to payment of compensation; and payment to the State of rents and royalties from the extraction of minerals.

The main objectives of the Bill are: to provide a modern regulatory regime for exploration and development of State minerals; to provide for regulating, in accordance with the principles of social justice, the exercise of private rights over minerals, and ancillary rights, while rec- onciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good; to provide for the continued vesting in the Minister the exclusive right of working, selling or otherwise disposing of private minerals which are not in course of development, subject to payment of fair compensation; to provide for preparation and implementation of rehabilitation plans for abandoned mine sites; and to provide for consequential amendments.

105 Seanad Éireann The Short Title of the Bill is, “An Act to make further and better provision for the development of minerals in the State and for that purpose to repeal the Minerals Development Acts 1940 to 1999 (other than certain provisions of the Minerals Development Act 1979) and the Minerals Company Acts 1941 to 1950, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to provide for related matters.”

The principal changes introduced by the Bill relate to the modernisation of the legislative code applicable to the minerals sector; the procedures for compulsory acquisition of ancillary surface rights; the basis for calculation of rents and royalties; and the basis for payment of compensation in respect of private minerals. The Bill will provide for greater transparency and predetermination of financial terms which will streamline the permitting process and will bring other aspects of the regulation of the minerals sector into line with best practice, having due regard to the constitutional protection of property.

The Bill does not directly address environmental matters because these are considered to be more appropriate to the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, and local authorities. More- over, the legislation which established the EPA specifically prohibits conditions in mining per- mits designed to limit or control environmental emissions. Nevertheless, my legal advice is that the Bill must take appropriate account of these matters, in particular to address obligations under the Aarhus Convention which has been ratified by Ireland. The Aarhus Convention concerns access to information on the environment, public participation in environmental decision- making and access to justice in that context. The implications of the convention for exploration and mining were carefully considered in close consultation with the Attorney General’s office, and the provisions in the Bill in that regard have been drafted accordingly.

The Bill is divided into eight Parts and the following is an overview of each Part. The first Part of the Bill provides standard provisions, namely, the Short Title, commencement arrangements, scope and interpretation. It provides that the Bill will apply to all minerals within the State or within designated areas of the continental shelf and that, for the purposes of the Bill, as in previous legislation, minerals do not include stone, sand, gravel or clay, turf or peat, or petroleum.

Part 2 addresses the administrative practice for prospecting licences from application to surrender, including public notice and consultation prior to issuing of licences and payment of compensation for damage or nuisance arising from prospecting activity. It introduces a new type of licence, known as a retention licence, where a prospecting licence holder has discovered a mineral resource that cannot for the time being be worked due to environmental, access or other difficulties. This Part also provides that the Minister, in assessing the public interest of an application, takes into account the economic benefits to the region as well as the environmental impact of the proposed exploration programme. It provides for making regulations setting out conditions for a prospecting or retention licence. A new requirement is that prior written consent will be required for boreholes, trenching and bulk sampling. Airborne geophysical surveying is a matter for the civil aviation authorities but provision is made here requiring prior notice of such surveys and submission of data.

Part 3 relates to working minerals. The Minerals Development Act 1979 vested in the Minister the exclusive right to work minerals, with the exception of a small number of existing mines in operation at the time. It also provided for the granting of that right to third parties under licence, subject to the payment of compensation to the mineral owners. These arrangements will be continued under the Bill. 106 24 September 2015 It has long been stated policy that an application for a permit to mine will only be accepted from holders of a current valid prospecting licence over the relevant area. That will now have a statutory basis. The main thrust of the changes in this area is to eliminate the difference between State and private minerals from the development perspective, providing greater predetermination and clarity of terms, financial and non-financial. Previously, there were leases to extract State minerals and licences for private minerals. Now there will be a single instrument - a mining licence.

Part 4 deals with ancillary rights. To extract minerals safely and efficiently it is necessary to carry out a variety of other activities, referred to as ancillary rights. Existing legislation provides that the holder of a State mining lease or licence is entitled to “enter on the land on or under where such minerals lie and use such land in such manner as may be reasonably necessary for the working of such minerals or for any purpose incidental thereto”. By today’s standards, this gives too broad a scope. Current legislation also provides for compulsory acquisition of land and rights over land necessary for efficient working of minerals.

The Bill will clarify rights necessary for working minerals and will divide these into “ancillary underground rights” and “ancillary surface rights” for licences issued henceforth. It will also bring the compulsory acquisition procedures in line with modern best practice. I consider it necessary to have these compulsory powers in place even though they are rarely, if ever, used.

Part 5 deals with rehabilitation. This Part is based on Part 9 of the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006 and deals only with “orphan” legacy sites. It is the responsibility of current mine operators to properly close and rehabilitate the sites when activity ceases. Mine operations, through the planning process, are subject to environmental impact assessment which requires detailed closure plans, with financial sureties to fund their implementation, aftercare monitoring and maintenance.

Part 5 provides that, in certain circumstances, the Minister may, having consulted with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, designate a former mine site or adjacent land as a rehabilitation area. The Minister may only designate such a site where a mine has been abandoned or where operations have permanently ceased and it is necessary for the safety of the public or animals or to address major environmental damage.

Once an area is designated as a rehabilitation area, the Minister may develop or adopt a rehabilitation plan and may implement it or authorise a local authority or the Environmental Protection Agency to do so. That does not affect any obligations of former lessees or licensees who had been responsible for the mine site, owners or occupiers of sites or any other person who may have obligations. The Minister may recover through the courts any expenditure in- curred by the implementation of the plan.

The Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, acquire private land, either by agreement or compulsorily, for the purpose of implementing a rehabilitation plan. The Minister must undertake a public consultation process before making a rehabilitation acquisition order. If considered appropriate, the Minister may appoint a hearing officer to hold an oral hearing to evaluate objections.

Part 6 relates to the Mining Board. The Mining Board has been in existence since it was established under the Minerals Development Act 1940 and adjudicates on various issues arising under the Acts, including compensation to private mineral owners. This Part provides for the

107 Seanad Éireann continuation of the board which consists of a chairperson and two ordinary members who are appointed by the Government on the recommendation of the Minister. The chairperson shall be a practising barrister or solicitor of at least ten years’ standing. Each ordinary member shall be a property arbitrator under the Property Values (Arbitration and Appeals) Act 1960. The provisions relating to the board are being updated in line with current best practice. New provisions in the area of ethics are provided in line with current legislation regarding other statutory boards.

Part 7 relates to enforcement and miscellaneous issues. This Part mainly contains standard provisions, restated or updated where necessary. Penalties in respect of offences, such as un- lawful prospecting or working of minerals, are brought up to date in line with current practice. Injunctive powers are being provided for continuing offences and in the case where the Minister might be prevented from undertaking rehabilitation work. Provision is being made for the ap- pointment of inspectors to enforce the Act. A requirement to notify the Minister of boreholes drilled for reasons other than prospecting or mining is a restatement of existing provisions in the 1940 Act. The vesting in respect of intellectual property rights in the Minister relating to the processing of data collected under the Minerals Development Acts and this Bill is also being provided for. This Part also deals with the registration of minerals that were exempt from statutory vesting under the 1979 Act and other miscellaneous matters.

Part 8 of the Bill, which involves transitional provisions, repeals and consequential amendments, provides for various transitional arrangements, including the continuation of any licences granted under previous Acts on the terms under which they were granted until they are renewed under the revised legislation. Applications for prospecting licences or mining leases and licences that are made before the enactment of the Bill will be deemed to be for licences under the Bill unless the Minister has already given notice of his intention to grant a licence. Chapter 2 sets out the Acts which will be repealed by the Bill. Chapter 3 lists amendments to other Acts as a consequence of the Bill.

The Schedule contains a list of substances which for certainty are included within the definition of “minerals”. This list is not exhaustive, as the definition of “minerals” contained in section 2 describes the term as meaning “all substances, including scheduled minerals”. It may, therefore, allow other substances to be defined as “minerals”. A similar Schedule to the 1940 Act has been reviewed with some additions and deletions. For example, chalk, flint and chert have been removed because experience has shown that their inclusion was not helpful. Mineral oils and natural gas have been removed because the 1960 Act provided for the separate regulation of oil and gas exploration and production. Other substances have been added, including industrial minerals that were not important in 1940 but have since gained significance, such as andalusite, garnet and sepiolite. The Schedule also includes definitions of “dolomitic limestone” and “silica sand”.

Government approval for the publication and introduction of this Bill was given subject to any technical or drafting amendments that may be agreed between the Minister for Commu- nications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Attorney General. My Department has been liaising with the Office of the Attorney General in the interim. I propose to introduce a number of such amendments on Committee Stage. In particular, amendments will be proposed to give effect to certain obligations under the Minamata Convention on mercury, which was signed by Ireland in 2013 and will prohibit primary mining of mercury. Other amendments will take account of legal advices in relation to the Aarhus Convention and will refine provisions that are already included in the Bill. 108 24 September 2015 I look forward to early consideration of this Bill on Committee Stage in the Seanad. I ask Senators to table any proposed amendments as quickly as possible to allow time for their full and fair consideration. I will consider all amendments that are tabled. I look forward to an informed, positive and constructive debate on the Bill in this House and a fair wind for its passage through the Dáil. This Bill is important to improve and consolidate the legal framework underpinning our minerals sector, which has been of great economic and social benefit in the past, as it will continue to be in the future. I am happy to commend it to the House.

24/09/2015S00200Senator Mark Daly: I welcome the Minister of State back to the House and thank him for giving a very comprehensive outline of the legislation that is before us. While we will be supporting this Bill, we intend to propose some amendments to be of assistance. The minerals sector is an important employer that contributes €810 million to the economy, generates €56 million in taxes and employs over 3,000 people. The heads of this Bill were agreed way back in 2006. When five Acts dating from the 1940s to the 1990s are being consolidated, obviously it takes some time to ensure all the relevant sections are covered and all the necessary new provisions are put in place.

We were here previously talking about safety regulations and the requirement for reporting in the oil and gas industry. We had the same debate. I know that a section of this Bill relates to the cleaning up and rehabilitation of sites and the question of whether that responsibility lies with the Environmental Protection Agency or with the local authorities. I suppose it goes back to the same points I was making about the oil and gas industry. We are going to be giving out licences and considering whether bonds are put in place. We will have to reflect on the adequacy of any bonds that are put in place. Companies that establish themselves to extract minerals from mines tend to disappear so that they are not around for the clean-up. Certainly, the taxpayer should never be footing the bill. We will be dealing with that on Committee Stage when we consider who should pay the costs of rehabilitation and assess whether the language and the requirements in the legislation are sufficiently strong to ensure the taxpayer does not have to pay to meet these costs.

I note that some changes are being made regarding the ability to engage in a form of compulsory purchase - I know it is not compulsory purchase per se - for ancillary lands. On Com- mittee Stage, we will tease out the question of whether this ability is expanding. Obviously, we are happy that fracking is not coming into it. We need to learn lessons here from the current issues in the US, where fracking is no longer viable because of the current price of oil. It seems that the taxpayer generally ends up with the bill for cleaning these sites. This applies to hydraulic fracturing as much as it does to the extraction of minerals, gas and oil. Our job is to put in place legislation that is strong enough to ensure future Governments and Ministers for Finance do not have to try to find the funds to meet the clean-up costs of local authorities and the Environmental Protection Agency.

In general, we support this important legislation and look forward to considering it on Com- mittee Stage, when we will table amendments and tease out its minutiae. This Bill is important because it consolidates 50 years of previous legislative jurisdiction in five other enactments. We need to make sure we extract this country’s minerals, which are a national asset, in a way that benefits all of society, protects everybody and is done in the common good. We need to ensure that future generations are not affected by the consequences of mining and that any clean-up that is necessary is done at the expense of the company that benefitted and made the profit and not at the cost of the taxpayer.

109 Seanad Éireann

24/09/2015S00300Senator Catherine Noone: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I think we will all have found when taking a look at the Minerals Development Bill 2015 that it is a very large and complex Bill. As Senator Daly has said, its primary purpose is to bring together the large volume of legislation that comprises the Minerals Development Acts, as adopted between 1940 and 1999. The Bill provides for the continued vesting in the Minister for Communica- tions, Energy and Natural Resources of the exclusive right to work minerals, subject to certain exceptions. The Bill also provides for the setting and calculation of fees and royalties. It also provides for a comprehensive suite of powers for dealing with abandoned mines and mine sites. It seeks to implement international environmental legal obligations set out in the Aarhus Con- vention. The Bill provides for public participation in and access to our justice system to allow citizens to make an input into activities of the mining industry that may have a significant on the environment and may not be the subject of planning permission.

While the Bill deals with the legislative side of the mining industry, it is also important to outline some positive aspects of the industry. When one looks to the future of mining, one must consider that Ireland’s 70,000 sq. km incorporate a wide range of diverse geology and mineral deposits. Since 1960, some 15 zinc and lead deposits have been discovered, with six becoming producing mines. I have no doubt that as mining technologies develop, many previously economically unviable methods may be revisited in the future. As such, it is important that our legislation is up to date and can reflect these changes. As we know, this Bill is designed to replace legislation that was introduced over more than 40 years from the 1940s to the 1990s. As the Minister of State has said, much of this legislation is now outdated and in need of modernisation. As I have said, there is also a need to implement international environmental legal obligations.

Some people are often surprised to discover the economic value of the mining sector itself in terms of output. Judged by sales turnover, mining activity was worth €426 million in Ireland in 2012 - the most recent figures I could find - while the activity of exploration and mining supported 1,373 full-time jobs in that year. The level of employment supported economy-wide is estimated at approximately 3,300 jobs. It is not, therefore, an insignificant sector and it is important that the legislation be brought into line with international standards, while also being modernised to reflect its importance.

One change worth nothing in the Bill is that it proposes that claims for compensation be extinguished if they are not made within a prescribed timeframe. The minerals development Acts do not explicitly provide for the extinguishment of claims for compensation, although they do require claims to be made within specified timeframes. The changes proposed in the Bill will shift the onus on the Minister in notifying potential claimants of their potential right to compensation to the mineral owner. That is correct.

In terms of rates and royalties, the Minister has the capacity to review them at least every eight years to ensure they reflect market rates. That is an adequate provision to enable substan- tial fluctuations to be taken into account.

Ireland has international obligations under the Aarhus Convention to guarantee a person’s right to public participation and access to justice and information rights contained in the convention. Sections 203 to 205, inclusive, set out the public notice requirements in respect of mineral activities. Section 205 requires the Minister to take due account of the outcome of public participation in the decision and include in it any relevant information on the procedure to seek to have the decision judicially reviewed, while also making available a copy of the deci- 110 24 September 2015 sion with the reasons and considerations on which it was based. This should ensure clarity and transparency on the matter.

All told, this is, effectively, a modernisation of existing legislation, while also seeking to ensure we are up to date in meeting our international environmental obligations. I, therefore, commend the Bill to the House.

24/09/2015T00200Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Is breá an rud a bheith ag plé rud éicint eile seachas cúrsaí aeirsheirbhíse go hÁrainn agus mar sin de. Is Bille tábhachtach é seo agus ardóidh mé roinnt ceisteanna sonracha, b’fhéidir, nuair a bhéas mé ag cur críche leis an bpointe cainte atá mé le déanamh.

Despite this being a relatively small island, we have a diverse geology that contains large and varying levels of minerals beneath the soil. These deposits are spread throughout the country, with mineral deposits to be found across the 32 counties. While Ireland is a small country, we are not a small player when it comes to the development of certain minerals. To put the matter in perspective, since 1960, 15 significant zinc lead deposits have been discovered, with six becoming producing mines. Ireland has been ranked first in the world in the zinc discovered per square kilometre and second in the case of lead. Ireland’s two underground zinc-lead mines accounted for approximately 30% of European zinc mine output and 10.7% of European lead mine output. Tara Mines in Navan, County Meath, is the most notable example of such a mine. Therefore, we welcome the publication of this legislation as it relates to a significant Irish industry.

It is important that our legislation and the regulations surrounding mining be brought up to modern standards. However, it must be noted that this legislation was a long time coming and people involved in the industry are eager to see the current legislation updated and enacted.

Mining plays a significant role in the economy, as has been stated. In 2012 mining output generated €426.1 million for the economy, while €56.6 million was generated for the Exche- quer in tax and 1,373 people were employed on a full-time basis. Therefore, it is important to consider how the funds generated from mining activity are harnessed by the State to best advantage. It is also important that State-owned minerals not be discarded as they can be viewed as a source of income for the State. With this in mind, I am concerned about section 82 of the Bill which allows the Minister to sell State-owned minerals instead of granting a mining licence. We have experienced far too much privatisation in Ireland and do not want to suffer a repeat of what we have witnessed in other sectors. Neither do we want to experience a repeat of what has happened in the case of offshore oil and gas whereby we have transferred almost all profits to private companies.

The safety of mines is also a source of concern. The State has a responsibility to ensure all mines operate to the highest safety standards. For example, the land and minerals rights at the Avoca mine in County Wicklow are owned by the State. As this is an historic mine, the Govern- ment must ensure old shafts, site heaps, etc. are kept safe for the public. It is important, where a private company or owner is involved in mining, that they also be compelled to ensure the site is safe and that the Minister have the necessary powers to oversee this. There must be clari- fication of the scheduling of minerals. For example, the definition of “dolomitic limestone” in section 2 needs to be clarified. The interpretation of dolomitic limestone and limestone is subjective. Inconsistent interpretation has allowed multinational companies to exploit deposits of dolomitic limestone without approval from the State. This has resulted in some companies 111 Seanad Éireann being able to avoid paying royalties, while smaller producers return their royalties to the State. This is hardly a fair system and the Minister of State must ensure clarity on the issue.

Sinn Féin welcomes this long overdue legislation and is happy to support its passage through the Houses. I note some prospecting for gold is happening in Connemara. This matter was brought to my attention during the summer. A question that has arisen and which comes within the remit of the Minister of State is how prospecting for gold can take place in an SAC. The impact is the destruction of an SAC. The mining is taking place in an area with a radius of 60 km, most of which is included in an SAC. Even if those involved are lucky enough to strike gold in the hills in Connemara, how will they be able to mine it without impacting on the SAC? How can those involved in mining activity overcome this barrier when people building houses or trying to engage in other developments or cut turf, as the Minister of State alluded to, are not allowed to do so? Perhaps the Minister of State might clarify the matter.

I have raised issues with the Department about the quarrying of marble. Some licences date back so far that they have been handed down from landlord to landlord. Some are owned by people who do not live in the State. Certain individuals with rights to quarry marble on other people’s land were sitting on these rights and thus not allowing others to develop marble quar- ries on their own land. I raised this issue a number of times with the then Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O’Dowd. The Minister should have intervened in that scenario so as not to allow it to happen. Does the legislation address that issue, where somebody with quarrying rights is sitting on a mineral to prevent somebody else from making a go of it? As I said, there are licences which predate the State and which have been handed down from landlord to landlord. What is the State doing to take back these licences into State ownership in order that it will have full control over them?

Táimid chun leasuithe a thabhairt chun cinn maidir le cuid de na ceisteanna seo ar an gcéad Staid eile. Fáiltimid roimh an reachtaíocht ach tá sé tábhachtach díriú ar chuid de na ceisteanna sonracha atáimid ag plé.

24/09/2015T00300Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: I thank the very gracious Senator Aideen Hayden for sharing two minutes of her time with me because I have to rush off to attend another meeting. It is great to see the Minister of the State in the House.

I welcome the Bill, which is timely. The Minister of State may be involved in the Royal Irish Academy pairing system, as I am, under which the academy pairs legislators with scien- tists. I have benefited hugely from it. I have been paired with a Dr. Deirdre Lewis, a geologist with SLR Consulting. I have learned a lot in working with her. I have visited Glengowla mines in Oughterard and learned about our mining heritage and there is much to learn. I compliment this family based mining enterprise.

I have two questions for the Minister of State, although I cannot wait for his answers, but I will check them in the Official Report. It is important to know them in my work with the scien- tist. Will he confirm that the provisions of the Bill recognise the rights of citizens to participate actively in all aspects of environmental decision making and thus allow for consultation on minerals development, as per the provisions of the Aarhus Convention which was ratified by Ireland in 2012?

The second question ties in somewhat with what Senator Ó Clochartaigh said. This might put his mind at rest. Can the Minister of State confirm that the provisions of the revised Bill

112 24 September 2015 are not in contravention of the revised Planning and Development Act and Planning and Devel- opment Regulations 2001 with regard to prospecting and drilling for minerals? Submissions under the latter should be exempt from planning permission at the prospecting stage to allow for responsible investigation of the subsurface for minerals. This is why it can go on at the moment in Connemara, for example.

I have learned that we have a highly-regulated industry in Ireland and that we rank highly internationally in this field. It has been a great learning experience from me. I compliment those involved on coming up with the idea of a regulatory impact assessment. I believe it is something that should be adopted in more disciplines where we are pairing off experts in the field with policymakers and legislators. Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Aire Stáit agus leis an Seanadóir Hayden as ucht a gcuid ama. I wish the Minister of State well and I look forward to hearing the reply to my two questions.

24/09/2015U00200Senator Aideen Hayden: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. The Bill before the House is a consolidation and modernisation of Ireland’s exploration and mining legislation. It has already been acknowledged that it is the culmination of in and around five years of pre- paratory work. I am keen to acknowledge the work of the staff of the Department of Commu- nications, Energy and Natural Resources, the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, the Minister, Deputy White, and, in particular, the former Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, in bringing about this much-needed updating of legislation in this important area.

The main purpose of the Bill has been spelt out by the Minister of State already. I am not going to repeat it. He has already emphasised the fact that this legislation does not apply to petroleum or natural gas and does not cover the process known as fracking.

Not many people know that Ireland has a mining heritage spanning over 4,000 years. Since the 1960s Ireland has had the status of a world-ranked producer of zinc, lead and barite. This was news to me and I thank the library and research facility for the briefing on the matter. Ire- land was Europe’s largest producer of zinc and zinc concentrate, and the tenth largest producer in the world in 2013. The mineral sector has made an important contribution to the national economy and it is a vital contributor to the regional economy in the vicinity of operating mines. The sector employs 3,306 full-time equivalents. These people are employed almost exclusively outside Dublin, which is an important factor in regional development. I note that in Part 2, the Minister can take into account economic benefits to a region as well as environmental impacts in examining an application.

Ireland is well located geographically in spite of its small size as a landmass. It is deemed to be an attractive destination for mineral exploration. This is, in part, because Ireland has been rated as a top jurisdiction because of its well-regulated sector according to the Fraser Institute 2014 report cards. Mining also has low import content and this is important when looking at its contribution to the economy. Overall value from the sector amounts to something in the region of €810 million, almost double the direct production value. Output in mining, as measured by sales turnover, amounted to some €426 million in 2012 and exploration and mining companies contributed a total of €56 million in tax and other payments to the Exchequer and local authorities. This is an important factor as well.

It is clearly an important sector to the economy and it has the potential to grow and expand. As my colleague, Senator Noone, said, the sector is governed by a number of tranches of legislation spanning 1940 to 1999. Clearly it is in need of modernisation and updating; the statutory 113 Seanad Éireann framework needs to be fit for purpose. We have seen how this Government has taken a number of areas and produced good quality consolidating legislation.

The Bill has over 250 sections and it is probably one of the largest tranches of legislation that we are going to consider this year. Its purpose is to make better provision for prospecting and development, and the management and control of the mining resources in this State. It is important that we have a legislative framework that is fit for purpose. We must also consider that, apart from the comprehensive legislative framework to cover exploration and mining development, we must regulate for mine closure and rehabilitation. Historically, it was the norm to simply close sites with little or no work carried out to rehabilitate the site or return it to full use. Abandoned sites have posed safety risks to humans and animals. The Environmental Protection Agency and the Geological Survey of Ireland identified 27 abandoned sites in 2009 and remediation work has been carried out on a number of these sites under the Energy (Miscel- laneous Provisions) Act 2006. The powers under the 2006 Act, however, were only of a tem- porary nature and the legislation before the House contains the powers in respect of abandoned sites. It represents an important environmental provision. As the Minister of State has noted, under Part 9 current mining operators have full responsibility for their operations and the Min- ister has powers to go to the courts to seek compensatory payments where the State is obliged to carry out rehabilitation work.

This Government has shown its commitment to taking all the necessary steps to increase Ireland’s international attractiveness overall. This Bill is a significant further step in that out- ward-looking policy. The Government has shown its commitment to this sector in a number of ways, including by funding the Geological Survey of Ireland geophysical and geochemical survey of the country under the Tellus programme. The Tellus programme is a ground and airborne mapping programme run by the Geological Survey of Ireland and has collected a significant amount of geo-scientific data that is informing the assessment of Ireland’s natural resources. Tellus has completed mapping of 25% of the island using state-of-the-art geochemical and geophysical surveying techniques and the programme began its most recent phase this summer in the midlands and the east.

I welcome this legislation. It is worth noting the Government’s continued support for the minerals industry but also its determination not to allow miscellaneous legislation that has grown over significant periods to linger on the Statute Book when consolidating legislation is needed for a number of areas where regulation is critical.

24/09/2015U00300Acting Chairman (Senator Cáit Keane): Níl aon Seanadóir eile anseo le labhairt. Tá cúpla nóiméad anois ag an Aire Stáit chun críche a chur leis seo.

24/09/2015U00400Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Re- sources (Deputy Joe McHugh): I am keen to draw on some of the contributions. I thank Senator Mark Daly for his support for the Bill. We had an extended conversation around safety, the nature of previous legislation and what happens after. He referred to the taxpayer bearing responsibility for the aftermath. We could use the example of Avoca mines. It will possibly take in the range of €50 million to put together a proper plan to deal with all the issues in Avoca. That is a great deal of money and this is why Avoca is an example of where the Department is trying to deal with an issue after the event. It is happening on the ground and great work is going on at local and community level. There is potential in the area and great ideas are coming from the community around potential industrial heritage tourism projects. Anyway, the major issue at the moment is safety and that is where the Department is focused at the moment. 114 24 September 2015 That is an extreme example. There are existing ring-fenced closure funds for the likes of Galmoy and Lisheen mines. There is ring-fenced money for those sites going through the process of closure at the moment. Lisheen will be closing soon. The adequacy of bonds is an example of one of the issues we can tease out and continue the conversation on.

One Senator referenced the language of legislation and made reference to the CPO. This is in the legislation but it will probably never happen. Reference was made to the taxpayer ending up with the bill. To familiarise myself with mining activity, something I was not familiar with prior to getting this post, I have been to Avoca and Navan. I have been down the Boliden mine in Navan. It is something else to drive into the mine and see what is going on there. It was very interesting to hear the first-hand account of people from the area who have spent decades mining in Navan and their very sharp focus on health and safety and doing the job as profes- sionally as possible within the various constraints and challenges regarding environmental and community considerations.

Senator Noone mentioned legacy mine sites. I do not want to revisit that matter. She referred to the economic output of €426 million, consideration of the Aarhus Convention and the outcome of public participation. Public participation is critical at an early stage. We have it in the aftermath in Wicklow, which is positive, but this must happen before, during and after.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh referred to dolomitic limestone, which is being re-examined. He also has concerns about privatisation. I assure him the State can take privately-owned minerals. The Senator also posed questions about prospecting in sensitive SACs in Connemara. As he knows, if the proper processes - such as, for example, an environmental impact study - are undergone in respect of an SAC in Connemara, houses can still be built there. The fear on the part of the people in such areas is the cost of going through the process. Mineral mining can happen in SAC areas. At present, having a prospecting licence does not give someone the green light to mine because there are local authority and environmental impact considerations that go with it. Wearing my other hat, I am aware that there is a big debate regarding Inland Fisheries Ireland which will require legislation to establish who owns the rivers. We really need to get to the bottom of all of these considerations regarding ownership going back not decades but several hundred years.

Senator Healy Eames acknowledged the work of the Royal Irish Academy’s pairing system. I launched the scheme several months ago. It is a good scheme because we are all, whether Deputies, Senators or councillors, practising politicians and there is constant tension between science and community. There is a black-and-white scientific approach which can sometimes upset communities but we need to bridge the gap. The best way to do so is through schemes such as the pairing system and I wish the Senator well with it. Senator Healy Eames asked whether the legislation recognises the rights of the citizen. Of course it does. It brings the community in at an early stage. With regard to exemptions from the Planning Acts, there is obviously a role for the planning authority also.

Senator Hayden referenced the fact that the legislation has been in preparation for five years and she referred to the former Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte. I would like refer to Frank Sheri- dan who retired this summer. He was a very dedicated official who was very much involved bringing the legislation to this point. I also acknowledge the other officials and former officials who have brought Bill to where it is at today. Senator Hayden also spoke about abandoned sites and I mentioned Lisheen and Galmoy. There has been much community engagement and positive work in Avoca and the local authority is also involved. I have visited the site with Deputy 115 Seanad Éireann Andrew Doyle. Acute safety issues arise there and it is on these that the Department is focus- ing. Senator Hayden acknowledged the Tellus programme. What she said is correct because that programme has been phenomenally beneficial, not only to the Department but also to local authorities in the context of examining water tables and other environmental considerations. The data being collected through geochemical and airborne surveying is critical and will help us as we deal further with the legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

24/09/2015V00300Acting Chairman (Senator Cáit Keane): When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

24/09/2015V00400Senator Catherine Noone: On Tuesday next, 29 September 2015.

24/09/2015V00500Acting Chairman (Senator Cáit Keane): Is that agreed? Agreed.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 29 September 2015.

Sitting suspended at 1.55 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.

3 o’clock24/09/2015CC00100

Choice of Court (Hague Convention) Bill 2015: Committee and Remaining Stages

24/09/2015CC00200An Cathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, to the House.

Sections 1 to 3, inclusive, agreed to.

SECTION 4

24/09/2015CC00500An Cathaoirleach: Amendment No. 1 is in the name of Senator O’Donovan.

24/09/2015CC00600Senator Diarmuid Wilson: I move amendment No. 1:

In page 4, lines 28 and 29, to delete “by Trevor Hartley and Masato Dogauchi”.

I am speaking on behalf of Senator O’Donovan. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I wish to withdraw this amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 4 agreed to.

Section 5 agreed to.

SECTION 6

Government amendment No: 2:

In page 5, line 2, to delete “If an enforcement order” and substitute “Subject to section 7, if an enforcement order”.

116 24 September 2015

24/09/2015CC01200Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality (Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin): Section 6 is a standard provision which ensures that a convention judgment in respect of which an enforcement order has been issued shall have the same force and effect as a judgment of the High Court.

The purpose of the amendment is to make this section subject to section 7 of the Bill. The reason for this is as follows. Section 7 of the Bill makes special provision for the payment of interest on foreign judgments, with subsection (4) of that section specifying that it is only the provisions of that section which will apply to the payment of interest in such judgments. The background to this is that an award of interest on a claim is an integral part of the judgment and therefore it is appropriate that the interest provisions of the country where the judgment was given shall apply and not the Irish provisions.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 6, as amended, agreed to.

Sections 7 and 8 agreed to.

NEW SECTION

24/09/2015CC01700An Cathaoirleach: Amendment No. 3 is a Government amendment and it proposes a new section. Amendment No. 4 is consequential on amendment No. 3 and, therefore, amendments Nos. 3 and 4 may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Government amendment No. 3:

In page 6, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:

“Protective measures

9. (1) An application to the Master of the High Court for an enforcement order respecting a judgment may include an application for any protective measures the High Court has power to grant in proceedings that, apart from this Act, are within its jurisdiction.

(2) Where an enforcement order is made, the Master of the High Court shall grant any protective measures referred to in subsection (1) that are sought in the application for an enforcement order.”.

24/09/2015CC01800Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: The new section 9 has the effect of giving an explicit jurisdiction to the Master of the High Court to grant protective measures to a judgment creditor where that creditor seeks such measures in the context of applying to have their convention judgment enforced. Absent such a power, there would be a risk that a judgment debtor would be given the opportunity to put assets in Ireland beyond the reach of the creditor before enforcement could take place.

Article 7 of the convention makes it clear that interim measures of protection not governed by the terms of the convention and their grant or otherwise is a matter to be regulated by national law. Under our national law, absent an express provision, our courts would not have jurisdiction to grant these measures in respect of convention judgments.

Following further consideration of this matter, it has been decided that it would not be in 117 Seanad Éireann keeping with the spirit of the convention if, in the context of an enforcement application, every effort was not made to ensure that enforcement would be effective. For that reason, a provision akin to that in respect of the Brussels I Regulation and the Lugano Convention regimes is proposed to be introduced for Hague Convention purposes.

Amendment No. 4 is a consequential amendment attendant upon on the insertion of the new section 9 and relates to the collective citation for the Courts (Supplemental provisions) Acts 1961 to 2015.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 9, as amended, agreed to.

SECTION 10

Government amendment No. 4:

In page 6, line 20, to delete “sections 5 to 8” and substitute “sections 5 to 9”.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 5:

In page 6, to delete lines 23 to 26.

24/09/2015CC02400Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: The effect of the amendment will be to remove the need for a commencement order so that the Bill will enter into force immediately upon enactment.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 10, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments, received for final consideration and passed.

24/09/2015CC03000An Cathaoirleach: When is it proposed to sit again?

24/09/2015CC03100Senator Ivana Bacik: Next Tuesday at 2.30 p.m.

The Seanad adjourned at 3.10 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 29 September 2015.

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