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Parliamentary Debates House of Commons Official Report General Committees PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee SCRAP METAL DEALERS BILL First Sitting Tuesday 11 September 2012 CONTENTS Sittings motion agreed to. CLAUSES 1 to 14 agreed to, some with amendments. CLAUSE 15 under consideration when the Committee adjourned till Wednesday 12 September at half-past Nine o’clock. PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS LONDON – THE STATIONERY OFFICE LIMITED £5·00 PBC (Bill 009) 2012 - 2013 Members who wish to have copies of the Official Report of Proceedings in General Committees sent to them are requested to give notice to that effect at the Vote Office. No proofs can be supplied. Corrigenda slips may be published with Bound Volume editions. Corrigenda that Members suggest should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 15 September 2012 STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT WILL GREATLY FACILITATE THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE BOUND VOLUMES OF PROCEEDINGS IN GENERAL COMMITTEES © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee11 SEPTEMBER 2012 Scrap Metal Dealers Bill 2 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chair: MR JOE BENTON † Allen, Mr Graham (Nottingham North) (Lab) † Lucas, Caroline (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) † Baldry, Sir Tony (Banbury) (Con) † Nokes, Caroline (Romsey and Southampton North) † Browne, Mr Jeremy (Minister of State, Home (Con) Department) † Offord, Dr Matthew (Hendon) (Con) † Hanson, Mr David (Delyn) (Lab) † Ottaway, Richard (Croydon South) (Con) † Harris, Rebecca (Castle Point) (Con) † Pearce, Teresa (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab) † Hillier, Meg (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ † Walker, Mr Robin (Worcester) (Con) Co-op) † Winnick, Mr David (Walsall North) (Lab) † Hughes, Simon (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD) Kate Emms, Committee Clerk † Jones, Graham (Hyndburn) (Lab) † Kelly, Chris (Dudley South) (Con) † attended the Committee 3 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Scrap Metal Dealers Bill 4 operate. It also creates a criminal offence of operating Public Bill Committee without a licence, which will support compliance with the regime. The definition of a scrap metal dealer and Tuesday 11 September 2012 of what constitutes scrap metal is dealt with in clause 8, which we will move on to later. Some Members may question the need to regulate the [MR JOE BENTON in the Chair] scrap metal industry at all, but if regulation is considered necessary, which is the Government’s view, clause 1 is Scrap Metal Dealers Bill essential. The scrap metal industry is currently regulated by the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964, and there is 3.30 pm widespread agreement that the regime is outdated and The Chair: I welcome everyone to this important in need of reform, which is why the Government support Committee. Before we begin consideration of the Bill, the Bill. The current registration regime has several we must deal with the sittings motion, which stands in limitations and, in truth, does little to stop the purchase the name of the promoter, so I call Richard Ottaway. of stolen metal, which is one factor behind the rapid growth of metal theft over recent years. Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): I beg to By requiring scrap metal dealers to obtain and comply move, with the terms of a licence, we will raise trading standards across the industry, particularly in relation to record That, if proceedings on the Scrap Metal Dealers Bill are not keeping and the procedures that apply when purchasing completed at this day’s sitting, the Committee do meet on Wednesday 12 September at half-past Nine o’clock and half-past One o’clock and paying for metals. The requirement to have a licence and on Thursday 13 September at half-past One o’clock. to trade will also allow local authorities better to manage who can operate in the sector, in that only operators If it assists the Committee, I propose that if we do who are deemed suitable by a local authority will be not finish today, we draw stumps at 6.30 pm. issued with a licence and there will be appropriate powers to tackle those who operate without a licence. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): I formally welcome The factors that should be considered when determining you to the Chair, Mr Benton. I happily concur with the suitability are dealt with elsewhere in the Bill, so I will hon. Member for Croydon South. not touch on them now. Question put and agreed to. Question put and agreed to. Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 1 Clause 2 REQUIREMENT FOR LICENCE TO CARRY ON BUSINESS AS SCRAP METAL DEALER Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the FORM AND EFFECT OF LICENCE Bill. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): I beg to move Richard Ottaway: May I take the opportunity to amendment 62, in clause 2, page 1, line 13, at end add— express my delight that you are in the Chair, Mr Benton? ‘(c) a personal licence.’. Back in the mists of time, I may have served under your chairmanship, but it was sufficiently long ago for me The Chair: With this it will be convenient to discuss not to remember precisely when—we have both been the following: here for a long time. On behalf of everyone on the Amendment 67, in clause 2, page 1, line 21, after ‘site Committee, I welcome you to the Chair. manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. I also welcome the Minister, who may not have Amendment 68, in clause 3, page 2, line 20, after ‘site realised, a week or so ago, that he was destined to manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. represent the Government on this Bill. He may have thought that as my day job or my other job is as Amendment 69, in clause 3, page 2, line 22, after ‘site Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee and as he manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. has been a diligent Foreign Office Minister for the past Amendment 70, in clause 4, page 3, line 21, after ‘site two and a half years, he had got shot of me. However, manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. I am delighted that we are now working together on this Amendment 71, in clause 4, page 3, line 22, after ‘site important Bill. manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. I set out the purpose of the Bill in a lot of detail on Amendment 72, in clause 10, page 5, line 24, after Second Reading, and I do not intend to repeat it now, ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. other than to say that this serious issue has to be Amendment 73, in clause 11, page 6, line 9, after ‘site addressed. There has been an epidemic of metal theft in manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. this country, and I was delighted that the Bill received a unanimous Second Reading. It was the virtually unanimous Amendment 74, in clause 12, page 7, line 12, after view that the problem has to be addressed and that the ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. Bill goes a long way towards doing so. Amendment 75, in clause 13, page 7, line 24, after Clause 1 provides that any individual or business ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. engaged in any commercial activity in relation to the Amendment 76, in clause 13, page 7, line 26, after buying or selling of scrap metal will need a licence to ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. 5 Public Bill Committee11 SEPTEMBER 2012 Scrap Metal Dealers Bill 6 Amendment 77, in clause 19, page 11, line 22, after Criminals’ other illegal activities would also be flagged ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. up. Should scrap metal yards be used as a front for Amendment 78, in clause 19, page 11, line 27, after other criminal activity, and there is an indication that ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. that sometimes is the case, the provision would allow that information to come before the licensing committee Amendment 79, in clause 19, page 11, line 28, after and the police. It would also allow those authorities to ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. be able to assess the suitability of the operation and the Amendment 80, in clause 19, page 11, line 29, after operator’s licence as well as individuals in the particular ‘site manager’, insert ‘or personal licence applicant’. business. The site operator could feel pressurised about people on the site who are operating under his site licence and Graham Jones: It is a pleasure to serve under your about whether the licence is vulnerable, so the increase chairmanship for the first time, Mr Benton, on what is in information will surely help him. Some big issues are quite a momentous day. The past 12 months have seen involved. There is no doubt that in decades gone by, the the issue of metal theft rise in the public’s mind. They underworld used scrap metal yards, and probably still are more conscious than ever of its impact. I thank the do. The Krays used scrap metal yards, and Hollywood hon. Member for Croydon South for leading on the films are full of dead bodies being sent to scrap metal Bill, which seems to have considerable support. I hope yards. We need to know who is on scrap metal yard sites that it will be enacted in the near future.
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