Wednesday Volume 536 23 November 2011 No. 228

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 23 November 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 277 23 NOVEMBER 2011 278

David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): Does the House of Commons Minister agree that although it would be highly desirable to reduce fuel costs, it is impossible to do so while we Wednesday 23 November 2011 are running a deficit of £160 billion a year as a result of the past actions of Opposition Members? The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Mr Jones: I could not have put it better myself. PRAYERS Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): For commuters and businesses in my constituency, high fuel prices are [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] painful enough without the exorbitant cost of the Severn bridge tolls. If price increases follow the normal pattern, tolls will hit almost £6 per car this year. What action is Oral Answers to Questions the Secretary of State taking to help my constituents?

Mr Jones: As the hon. Lady knows, the Severn bridge WALES is privately operated. The franchise comes to an end in 2017, at which time the Government will consider their The Secretary of State was asked— options. Fuel Prices Unemployment 1. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): What discussions she has had with ministerial 2. Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): colleagues and Ministers in the Welsh Government on What recent assessment she has made of the level of the effects of fuel prices on (a) rural and (b) urban unemployment in Wales. [81781] areas in Wales; and if she will make a statement. [81780] 8. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales What recent assessment she has made of the level of (Mr David Jones): My right hon. Friend the Secretary unemployment in Wales. [81787] of State and I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues and the Welsh Government on a range of The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): issues, including the effects of fuel prices in Wales. The The latest unemployment figures in Wales are disappointing Government are addressing the rising cost of fuel through and show that there is still much for both the UK the abolition of the fuel tax escalator, the introduction Government and the Welsh Government to do. We have of the fair fuel stabiliser and a cut in fuel duty announced made it clear that while tackling the deficit remains our at the Budget earlier this year. top priority, we are committed to creating the right conditions for the private sector to expand and grow in Mr Llwyd: I thank the Minister for that response. Wales, in order to create much needed jobs. Will he impress upon the Secretary of State the need to push the Government to introduce a true fuel duty Karl Turner: Will the Secretary of State join me in stabiliser that would trigger an annual reduction in the congratulating the Labour Welsh Government on the pump price, as the so-called fair fuel stabiliser announced launch of Jobs Growth Wales, which I am told will in the March Budget does not go anywhere near far create 4,000 jobs per year, and will she encourage her enough? The volatility in petrol prices means businesses Cabinet colleagues to establish a similar scheme in this cannot budget, as noted yesterday by the Federation of country, because our constituents are desperate for Small Businesses in its submission for the autumn statement. jobs?

Mr Jones: I hear what the right hon. Gentleman says, Mrs Gillan: As the hon. Gentleman knows, I would but I must point out to him that the tax measures we congratulate any Government who tried to reduce have taken have resulted in petrol prices being approximately unemployment, which blights so many families, particularly 6p per litre lower than they would have been had that in Wales—and never more so than under the last Labour escalator not been scrapped. Even taking VAT into Government. However, I must say to him that the jury account, fuel prices are approximately 3p per litre lower will be out until we see the results from that scheme. than they would have been. Mr Llwyd: Further to that response, may I ask the Andrew Miller: As the Secretary of State will be Minister about a slightly different matter? What support aware, in my constituency hundreds of people cross the are the UK Government providing for the use of electric border both ways for employment. Constituents of cars? There are hardly any charging points all in Wales. mine work in Broughton, and people from Welsh There is not even one per constituency. What is being constituencies travel the other way to Vauxhall, Essar done to encourage that? and other major employers. Does the Secretary of State agree that there needs to be some joined-up thinking Mr Jones: As the right hon. Gentleman suggests, this with her colleagues in the Department for Business, is the technology of the future. As he knows, provision Innovation and Skills, in order to address the challenge is being rolled out in the urban areas, and I hope my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull solutions will be found to ensure that rural users will East (Karl Turner) has just raised? There is a good also be able to have access to suitable charging points. scheme in Wales; why not replicate it in England? 279 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 280

Mrs Gillan: The hon. Gentleman is wrong; this is a adopted Labour’s five-point plan for growth and jobs in new scheme in Wales, being introduced by the Welsh Wales, including a cut in VAT on home improvements Government. I agree that the £400 million investment in to 5%, a tax break for every small firm that takes on the Airbus factory will secure 6,000 Welsh jobs and extra workers and a £2 billion tax on bankers’ bonuses many jobs in the supply chain to that factory. My right to create 100,000 new jobs? Unless she acts now, she will hon. Friend the Prime Minister recently opened the new condemn tens of thousands of men and women in North factory, which will secure employment and Wales to misery. development in that area for a long time to come. Mrs Gillan: In Wales, there is an acid test of Labour’s Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): Does the Secretary of policies. The fact is that a Labour Government are in State agree with me that the inaction of the Labour power in Wales and, as the First Minister in Scotland Government on enterprise zones is a real concern to the said the other day: business community in Wales? “If Labour has the answer to economic problems and unemployment, why are unemployment and youth unemployment Mrs Gillan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for in Wales higher than they are in Scotland? If Labour has the reminding me of the fact that we started the enterprise magic solutions, why is it not implementing them in the one place zones in England at a much earlier stage than the Welsh in these islands where it is still in government?”—[Scottish Parliament Government, but I am pleased to welcome the fact that Official Report, 17 November 2011; c. 3582.] the Welsh Government have designated some areas in Wales as enterprise zones. I know, however, from my Youth Unemployment discussions with business and industry that they are keenly awaiting some more details on the enterprise 3. Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): What recent zones, which have been very slow in coming forward. estimate she has made of the number of 16 to 24-year-olds who are unemployed in Wales. [81782] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): Will the Secretary of State join me in welcoming the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales announcement by the BSW Timber sawmill in Newbridge- (Mr David Jones): Current levels of youth unemployment on-Wye in my constituency that it is about to create in Wales and across the UK are, of course, disappointing. another 20 jobs, bringing Christmas cheer to those We are determined to tackle that and will announce families who will benefit from that employment? additional measures as part of phase 2 of the growth review. Mrs Gillan: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and I know how hard he works in his constituency to secure jobs. I offer my congratulations and hope that Chris Bryant: That is two Ministers now who have the business goes from strength to strength. I think we used the word “disappointing” about unemployment. forget in this day and age when unemployment figures Frankly, it is a tragedy and one of the worst things are going in the wrong direction that plenty of companies about it is that a previous Conservative Government are creating jobs and plenty of enterprising— consigned constituencies such as mine and whole communities like the Rhondda to long-term mass Mr Speaker: Order. May I ask the Secretary of State unemployment. They are doing exactly the same now to to face the House so that we can all hear her dulcet a generation of young people. Will the Minister suggest tones, from which we will greatly benefit? I think she one single thing that he personally is doing in his has finished and we are grateful to her. Department to tackle youth unemployment in Wales and in the Rhondda? Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): Does the Secretary of State not realise how out of touch she is? The Mr Jones: Of course youth unemployment is too high unemployment figures in Wales are not “disappointing”, and of course, sadly, that is not a new phenomenon. In they are shocking. We have had a 20% rise in the the last Parliament, youth unemployment in Wales increased number of women claiming jobseeker’s allowance since by 73% and we have not heard a word of apology from she came to power in May 2010, including an increase the hon. Gentleman for that. We recognise the importance of a fifth in the number out of work for more than 12 of the problem and that is why we have introduced the months. Why, according to her parliamentary answers Work programme, which provides properly targeted to me, has her Wales Office business advisory council support to young jobseekers. not yet discussed the plight of jobless women in Wales? Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): Is not export-led Mrs Gillan: The right hon. Gentleman is right to growth one route to addressing youth unemployment? commiserate with those people who are looking for In that regard, will my hon. Friend take this opportunity employment, but I am not going to take any lessons to congratulate private sector business in Wales, which from him—he was part of a Labour Government under since the last election has seen a 31% increase in Welsh whom youth unemployment rose by more than 40% exports—double the national average and the largest and female unemployment rose by more than 30%. increase of any part of the United Kingdom?

Mr Hain: What world is she living in? We created a Mr Jones: Yes. My hon. Friend is entirely right. The record number of jobs in Wales. There are 10 men on export figures for Wales were extremely encouraging, her business advisory council—why does she not appoint led particularly as they were by the engineering sector. at least one woman to it? With the deficit rising and In that connection, we must commend Airbus for the growth stalling, is it not also time that her Government wonderful work it is doing in the north-east of Wales. 281 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 282

Inflation Mr Jones: The hon. Gentleman will know that the consultation proceeding at the moment relates only to 4. Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): What recent photovoltaic installations. There will be a further discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the consultation in due course in which he will no doubt Exchequer on the effects in Wales of the rate of participate. inflation. [81783] Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): The Government’s feed-in The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): tariff fiasco risks shattering all investor confidence in I have regular discussions with the Chancellor and manufacturing in Wales. What will the Minister do to other ministerial colleagues on a range of issues affecting influence ministerial colleagues to prevent imminent Wales. I welcome the latest fall in inflation, which was job losses in the Welsh solar industry and ensure that published by the Office for National Statistics last week. any change to the feed-in tariff is given a long lead-in time and is set at a rate that will encourage investment Chris Evans: On this Government’s watch, average and not increase unemployment? food bills have increased by 5%, putting more pressure on hard-working families. I have listened to the Secretary of State’s responses, but can she give a guarantee that Mr Jones: We fully understand the difficulties that she is really fighting Wales’s corner and fighting for companies involved in this sector of the economy face hard-working families in Cabinet? as a consequence, but if things had been left as they were, the feed-in tariff budget would have been eaten Mrs Gillan: I thank the hon. Gentleman for what I up. There is a consultation and I have no doubt that the think was a question. There can be absolutely no doubt hon. Lady will participate in it. about whether I always fight Wales’s corner in Cabinet. I thought he would at least be encouraged that the Bank Enterprise Zones of England has forecast that inflation should fall rapidly over 2012. In the mean time, the Government are taking 6. Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): What recent very strong action to help consumers with high costs. discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and We all want to help households and the Government go Ministers in the Welsh Government on the cross- to the last degree to do so. border economic implications of the development of Feed-in Tariff Review enterprise zones. [81785]

5. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): When she next The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): expects to meet representatives of the solar industry in I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues Wales to discuss the feed-in tariff consultation. [81784] and with the First Minister on various issues, including enterprise zones in Wales. It is vital that businesses The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales investing in Wales are given the same or even better (Mr David Jones): My right hon. Friend the Secretary competitive advantages as businesses in places just across of State is meeting representatives from the Welsh solar the border such as Bristol and Merseyside. industry next week along with the shadow Minister for Wales to discuss concerns that businesses have about Caroline Dinenage: Given that enterprise zones not the feed-in tariff review. only create jobs but have a wider geographical impact on the supply chain with regard to the economy, does Mr Hanson: The Minister will know that confidence the Minister share my surprise at the procrastination of in the solar industry has been considerably damaged by the Welsh Government in locating enterprise zones in the decision on feed-in tariffs. Will he and the Secretary Wales? of State now stand up for Wales and ask the Department of Energy and Climate Change to defer the decision date for implementation of 12 December so that the Mrs Gillan: This is becoming a common theme. Although consultation, which finishes on 23 December, can at the enterprise zones have been declared by the Welsh least have the views of the solar industry he is meeting Government, we have only a recent letter from the next week? Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science of 22 November to Assembly Members, which says that Mr Jones: I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s the Department is currently working hard with colleagues constituency interest in this regard. As he rightly says, in transport, planning and elsewhere to ensure that its there is a consultation going on, which ends on enterprise zone policy can be delivered. We can only 23 December. Although the reference date is indeed hope that it gets a wiggle on and gets those details out 12 December, that is subject to consultation. to businesses as fast as possible.

Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): Antur Nantlle community Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): Blaenau Gwent, business group in my constituency has well developed with high unemployment but great potential, includes plans for a hydroelectric scheme that will benefit the an enterprise zone. I thank the Secretary of State for environment as well as provide an income stream for the meeting developers who propose to build a £200 million venture, but it is concerned that any future change in race track there. She offered to speak to Ministers from the tariff will undermine the financial basis of the the Treasury and from the Department for Business, scheme. What can the Wales Office do to ensure that Innovation and Skills about that infrastructure plan this example of the big society in action is not jeopardised and capital allowances. Following those representations, by the Government’s actions? will she meet me to feed back on progress? 283 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 284

Mrs Gillan: I am always happy to meet the hon. executive of UKTI in the last month and yesterday I Gentleman, and I was pleased to meet him and the met the senior investment adviser for Wales as part of business people who are thinking of investing in Blaenau continuing discussions better to promote Wales to potential Gwent. There is a lot of work to be done on the project, investors. which is exceedingly ambitious, but as the area has been designated by the Welsh Government as an enterprise Mr Walker: I thank the Secretary of State for that zone for the automotive industry, I hope that good answer. The Select Committee on Welsh Affairs recently progress will be made. If any help can be given, I am heard from the chief executive of UKTI, but he, like always happy to see what I can do, and I will certainly our Committee, is still waiting in hope for his first be pleased to feed back to the hon. Gentleman. meeting with the Welsh Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science. Given that surprising fact, and John Howell (Henley) (Con): Does my right hon. the fact that the Secretary of State herself has met the Friend share my regret that it is almost impossible— Committee and UKTI many times, what advice can she [Interruption.] give the Welsh Business Minister on pushing the respect agenda and the interests of Welsh business? Mr Speaker: Order. I apologise for interrupting the hon. Gentleman, but there is a considerable hubbub in Mrs Gillan: My hon. Friend knows that I try to give the Chamber, which is very unfair for Members asking encouragement to the Welsh Labour Minister for Business, questions and the Ministers answering them. Let us rather than giving her advice, but I am pleased that the have a bit of order and some self-respect. Welsh Affairs Committee is investigating trade and investment, and I look forward to giving evidence to the John Howell: Does my right hon. Friend share my Committee next month. I continue to hold a series of regret that it is almost impossible to answer the question meetings to see how we can assist and work with the about cross-border implications, because there are no Welsh Government to improve those figures. details other than the location and sectors for the Welsh enterprise zones? Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): But is not inward investment always a second best? Brace’s bakery, an Mrs Gillan: It is increasingly difficult when relying on indigenous Welsh firm with its headquarters in Crumlin, another Government to implement a policy, but I remain took over an inward investment company in my optimistic because I want the message to go out that constituency that was about to close down. On Monday, Wales is open for business. Enterprise zones will give an Brace’s increased its work force by a third, so will the advantage to businesses going into these areas and Secretary of State give her congratulations and support create jobs, and there are good forecasts for the number to indigenous Welsh companies, and ensure that the rest of private sector jobs to be created by 2015, so I walk in of the country enjoys the great merits of Brace’s breads hope. I encourage the Welsh Government to do everything and Welsh cakes? that they can, and I stand ready to help them. Mrs Gillan: Now the hon. Gentleman is tempting me; Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): The I always like a good Welsh cake. He should know how funding available for the Bristol enterprise zone is nearly much I encourage indigenous Welsh companies, not as much as the entire amount for enterprise zones for least by my continuous support of the Fast Growth 50, the whole of Wales. How can the Secretary of State which celebrates indigenous companies and the way justify supporting that alongside the tax on trade and they grow the economy, but he must not do down investment in Wales that the Severn bridge toll represents? inward investment. In 2010-2011, 38 inward investment Will she resist this massive investment at the doorway of projects led to the creation of 2,444 new jobs and Wales that would stop inward investment into Wales? safeguarded another 1,100 jobs in Wales. I think that is pretty important and certainly not second best. Mrs Gillan: The amount given to the Welsh Government as a consequence of what is being spent on enterprise Economic Situation zones in England is calculated in exactly the same way under our Government as under the previous Government. 9. Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): The Minister in Wales has received £10 million towards What recent discussions she has had with ministerial enterprise zones, but she also has a budget of nearly colleagues on measures to stimulate economic growth £15 billion at her disposal, and she can decide how she in Wales. [81788] spends that. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to encourage her to look at what she can do in those enterprise zones The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales to encourage businesses. (Mr David Jones): My right hon. Friend and I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues, the Welsh Inward Investment Government and other organisations to discuss measures that would help to stimulate economic growth in Wales. 7. Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con): What recent discussions she has had with (a) ministerial colleagues Andrew Selous: Does my hon. Friend agree that the and (b) others on the work of UK Trade and private sector in Wales represents far too small a share Investment in promoting inward investment in Wales. of the total Welsh economy? What steps is he taking to [81786] change that?

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): Mr Jones: My hon. Friend is entirely correct. I agree I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues, with him, and so do the shadow Secretary of State and UK Trade and Investment and others on promoting the Welsh First Minister. The Government’s plan for inward investment in Wales. I have met the new chief growth aims to create the most competitive tax system 285 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 286 in the G20 and make the UK the best place in Europe to for solar. Will the Minister give a categoric assurance to start, finance and grow a business. That applies to the House that he will lobby the Treasury and Ministers Wales as much as to the rest of the country. at the Department of Energy and Climate Change to ensure that the scheme is maintained to help businesses Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Does the Minister that are doing the right thing in Wales? agree that one of the best ways to incentivise good growth in difficult times is to invest in green jobs and Mr Jones: The hon. Gentleman will have heard my the green economy? What would he say to my constituent previous answers on this question. I urge him also to Labour Councillor Phil White, ex-Tower colliery, who contribute to that consultation, and no doubt he will has put together proposals for investment in 1,500 participate in the debate this afternoon. homes in five of the most deprived areas of Wales using the feed-in tariff scheme by next March? This Government Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) have cut the legs away from under that scheme, so what (PC): It is estimated that the SME sector accounts for would the Minister say to my constituent? 90% of employment in Wales. What discussions has the Minister had with the Welsh Government about promoting Mr Jones: I am sure the hon. Gentleman listened this vital sector? carefully to my previous answers on the issue. I urge him and his constituents to engage with the consultation Mr Jones: The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct. As now proceeding. I have said, the SME sector is the backbone of the Welsh economy. We have regular discussions with the SMEs Welsh Government. In fact, I am meeting the appropriate Welsh Minister next Monday for that purpose. 10. David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): What recent Broadcasting discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and Ministers in the Welsh Government on support for 13. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What small and medium-sized enterprises in Wales. [81789] recent discussions she has had with (a) ministerial colleagues and (b) others on broadcasting in Wales. 11. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What recent [81792] discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and Ministers in the Welsh Government on support for The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): small and medium-sized enterprises in Wales. [81790] I have had recent discussions with ministerial colleagues in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport on a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales range of issues, including broadcasting in Wales. My (Mr David Jones): My right hon. Friend the Secretary hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Wales and of State and I have regular discussions with ministerial I have also had recent discussions with the BBC Trust, colleagues and Ministers in the Welsh Government to the S4C Authority and independent Welsh television support Welsh businesses. producers on the issue.

David Rutley: Given the importance of SMEs in the Sarah Newton: Will my right hon. Friend join me in vital task of job creation in Wales and across the United calling on the head of the BBC to reconsider his savage Kingdom, what steps are the Government taking to cuts to BBC local radio so that people in Wales can reduce the burden of regulation on businesses in Wales? continue to enjoy Welsh language broadcasting alongside people in Cornwall enjoying Cornish language Mr Jones: My hon. Friend is correct. SMEs are the broadcasting? backbone of the Welsh economy and have long been so. Through our programme of reduction of regulation, we Mr Speaker: Order. I do not know whether the are easing the burden on SMEs and setting up new microphones are playing tricks on us or—more likely—there businesses. It is hoped that that will cause the sector to is just too much noise. I wanted to hear fully what the flourish in Wales. hon. Lady was saying.

Stuart Andrew: Does my hon. Friend agree that rises Mrs Gillan: I think I got my hon. Friend’s drift. I in interest rates would be catastrophic for the prospects congratulate her on being a champion of the Cornish of SMEs in Wales, and that maintaining our low interest language. Like me, she will want to recognise and rates could be at risk if we were to lose our triple A congratulate the BBC and S4C on reaching an agreement rating, making it more difficult for Wales to maintain its on the funding governance and accountability of S4C competitive edge when it comes to exports? until 2017, thereby securing Welsh language broadcasting in Wales? Mr Jones: Yes, my hon. Friend is entirely correct. This Government have had to take tough decisions on Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Anyone watching the economy. The fruit of that is that we have maintained the BBC’s excellent sporting coverage this weekend our triple A rating and, as a consequence, this country might like to know that the odds on the right hon. Lady is in a far better position than many of our competitors. remaining Secretary of State have dropped from 8:1 to 2:1. Would she recommend that they have a flutter on Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): Small businesses in that? my constituency have written to me this month saying that they are going to lay people off or may face closure Mrs Gillan: I would tell the hon. Gentleman not to because of the Government’s policy on the feed-in tariff bother wasting his money. 287 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 288

PRIME MINISTER Lance Corporal Peter Eustace from 2nd Battalion The Rifles, Lieutenant David Boyce and Lance Corporal The Prime Minister was asked— Richard Scanlon, both of 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Engagements Guards, and Private Thomas Lake from 1st Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment. All those men Q1. [81730] Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con): If he died serving our country with the utmost bravery and will list his official engagements for Wednesday courage, and my deepest condolences, and those of the 23 November. whole House, are with their families and friends. The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I am sure I also want to pay tribute, as the Prime Minister that the whole House will wish to join me in paying rightly did, to Alan Keen, the former Member for tribute to Private Matthew Thornton from 4th Battalion Feltham and Heston. He was, as the Prime Minister The Yorkshire Regiment, Lance Corporal Peter Eustace said, somebody who had friends across the House. He from 2nd Battalion The Rifles, Lieutenant David Boyce was somebody who believed in young people, in and Lance Corporal Richard Scanlon, both from The opportunities for young people and, most of all, in the Queen’s Dragoon Guards, and Private Thomas Lake power of sport to change people’s lives—and, as I heard from 1st Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment. at his funeral yesterday, he certainly had an unusual They were all courageous soldiers held in the highest idea for his first date. He took his future wife, Ann, to regard by their comrades. We owe them a great debt of the Orient, which turned out not to be a Chinese gratitude for their service and sacrifice and send our restaurant but to be Leyton Orient, who were playing condolences to their families and friends. that day. He was a great and lovely man, and he will be missed by all of us, but most of all by Ann and by his I am sure that the whole House will also wish to join family. me in paying tribute to Alan Keen, who sadly died after a courageous battle with cancer. He was a popular Can the Prime Minister tell us the increase in long-term constituency MP who served Feltham and Heston for youth unemployment since he scrapped the future jobs nearly 20 years. Before entering politics, Alan was a fund in March? scout for Middlesbrough football club and continued to The Prime Minister: Youth unemployment is up since be a great advocate for sport, not least through his the last election, I accept that; and youth unemployment chairmanship of the all-party parliamentary football is unacceptably high in this country, as it is unacceptably group, which grew to be one of the largest in the House high right across Europe. The problem is that youth under his stewardship. We send our deepest sympathies unemployment in this country has been rising since to his wife, Ann, who is a friend to many here, and to his 2004, and under the previous Labour Government it family and all his constituents. He will be missed by went up by 40%. Members on both sides of the House. What we have to do to help young people back to This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues work is to improve our school system so that they have and others, and in addition to my duties in this House I proper qualifications; improve our welfare system so shall have further such meetings later today. that it pays to work; and improve our employment Andrew Bingham: I join the Prime Minister in paying system so that there are proper apprenticeships to help tribute to our brave soldiers who this week gave their young people. We have 360,000 apprenticeships this lives in service to our country. All our thoughts should year, helping young people to get work. go out to them and their families at this very difficult time. Similarly, I join the tribute paid to the late hon. Edward Miliband: Under 13 years of a Labour Member for Feltham and Heston. Government, youth unemployment never reached 1 million; The mass strike proposed by the unions for this time it has taken the Prime Minister 18 months to get to that next week will cause great upheaval for many of my tragic figure. Given that he did not answer the question, constituents in High Peak. Does the Prime Minister let me tell the House the reality: since he scrapped the agree that it is wholly irresponsible for the unions to future jobs fund in March, long-term youth unemployment bring their members out on strike based on such a small has risen by 77%. Now, can he tell us what has happened number of votes and when negotiations on pensions are to long-term youth unemployment since he introduced still ongoing? his Work programme in June? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very The Prime Minister: First, let me just repeat: youth important point. It really is irresponsible, when negotiations unemployment went up by 40% under a Labour are ongoing, to cause strikes that will lead to the closure Government. Let me also remind the right hon. Gentleman of most of the classrooms in our country. It is the of something that his brother, the right hon. Member height of irresponsibility. What is on offer is an extremely for South Shields (David Miliband), said last week. He reasonable deal: low and middle-income earners getting said very clearly that this Government did not a larger pension at retirement than they do now; all “invent the problem of youth unemployment”. existing accrued rights being fully protected; and any We should have that sort of candour from this brother. worker within 10 years of retirement seeing no change The Leader of the Opposition asked me very specifically in either the age they can retire or the amount they can about the future jobs fund and the Work programme. receive. It is also a tragedy that it is not just the union Let me give him the answer. The Work programme is leaders who do not understand this; the Labour party helping 50% more people than the future jobs fund: it refuses to condemn these strikes. will help 120,000 young people this year, where the Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): I join the future jobs fund helped only 80,000. The waiting time Prime Minister in paying tribute to Private Matthew for the most needy young people will be half the waiting Thornton from 4th Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment, time under the future jobs fund; under the Work 289 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 290 programme, those who are not in education, employment The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman accuses or training will get help—[Interruption.] I would have us of cutting taxes. Let me tell him what we are cutting. thought that Opposition Members would want to hear We are cutting interest rates, which is giving the economy about what we are doing to help young people. They the best boost. We are cutting corporation tax, and we will get help within three months, rather than six, but now have the lowest rates of corporation tax in the G7. the absolute key is that, because we are paying by We are cutting tax for the low-paid, because we have results, the Work programme will actually help those taken 1 million people out of income tax. We are who need the most help, whereas the future jobs fund freezing the council tax, cutting the petrol tax and put a lot of graduates into public sector jobs and was scrapping Labour’s jobs tax. That is what this Government five times more expensive than the alternative. That is are doing. why we have scrapped it and replaced it with something Let me answer the right hon. Gentleman directly on better. the issues of growth and debt, because this is absolutely Edward Miliband: Classically, lots of bluster but no key. [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor is at it answer to the question I asked—[Interruption.] again, I am afraid. All over Europe there is an interest Government Members will be interested in the answer rate storm, with high interest rates in Spain, Italy and that the Prime Minister did not give, because in June, even some of the countries at the heart of the eurozone. when the Work programme was introduced, 85,000 We must ensure that we keep this country safe with low young people had been unemployed for more than six interest rates. Let me just remind the Leader of the months; now, there are 133,000—a massive increase Opposition of this: if interest rates went up by 1% in since he introduced the Work programme. If he is this country, that would add £1,000 to the typical family serious about tackling youth unemployment, he should mortgage. That is the risk that we would have with get those on the highest incomes to help those with no Labour’s plans for more spending, more borrowing and income at all. Why does he not tax the bankers’ bonuses more debt. and use the money to create 100,000 jobs for our young people? Edward Miliband: There he goes again; when it goes wrong, it is nothing to do with the Prime Minister. It is The Prime Minister: We have introduced the bank his ABC—Anyone But Cameron to blame when things levy, which is going to raise more every year than the go wrong. right hon. Gentleman’s bonus tax would raise in one What did the Chancellor say at the time of the year. Budget last year? He said that his approach would We have just heard a new use for the bonus tax—there deliver have been nine already. Let me give the right hon. “a steady and sustained economic recovery, with low inflation Gentleman the list. He has used his bonus tax for higher and falling unemployment.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; tax credits; giving child benefit to those on the highest Vol. 512, c. 168.] rates of tax; cutting the deficit; spending on public Three promises made; three promises broken. The services; more money for the regional growth fund—that Government’s plan is failing, and that is the truth. Does is when he is defending it rather than attacking it; that not show why at the autumn statement, the Prime turning empty shops into cultural community centres; Minister should change course? and higher capital spending. This is the bank tax that likes to say yes. No wonder the shadow Chancellor has The Prime Minister: Let me just give the right hon. stopped saluting and started crying. [Laughter.] Gentleman the latest growth figures in Europe. Britain Edward Miliband rose— grew at 0.5% in the last quarter, which is the same as the US and Germany, faster than France, faster than Hon. Members: More! Spain, faster than the EU average and faster than the eurozone average. That is the fact. Of course it is a Edward Miliband: Even for this Prime Minister, to be difficult economic environment that we are in, but is playing politics with youth unemployment is a complete there a single other mainstream party anywhere in outrage. He is the one—[Interruption.] Europe that thinks the answer to the debt problem is Mr Speaker: Order. I apologise for interrupting the more spending and more borrowing? If he is worried right hon. Gentleman. Let me say it again: the Prime about the level of debt, why is he proposing to add Minister will be heard, and the Leader of the Opposition another £100 billion to it? It is the height of irresponsibility, will be heard. Laughing about the denial of a hearing is and the reason why people will never trust Labour with not to the credit of any hon. or right hon. Member. the economy again. Edward Miliband: The truth is, the Prime Minister is Edward Miliband: How out of touch does this the one cutting taxes for the banks year on year in the Prime Minister sound? Some 1 million young people course of this Parliament. That is the reality. He is and their families are worried about finding a job and creating a lost generation of young people, and he all he offers is complacency and more of the same. Now knows it. It is his responsibility; it is happening on his we know it: however high youth unemployment goes watch. and however bad it gets, it is a price worth paying to The Prime Minister said on Monday to the CBI that protect his failed plan. I tell him this: unless he changes it was “harder than anyone envisaged” to get the deficit course next week, 1 million young people will become down, but he was warned that his strategy of cutting the symbol of his failed economic plan and an out-of-touch too far and too fast would not create jobs; he was Prime Minister. warned that it would not create growth; and he was warned that he would find it harder to get the deficit The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman asks down. Is that not exactly what has happened? for a change of course. Let me just say to him what the 291 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 292 leading economic organisations in our country and, the 1 million people we have lifted out of tax at the indeed, across the world say about that issue. The IMF lowest end, many are women. What we are doing in says this: terms of additional child care is helping women. The “’Is there a justification for a shift in the policy mix’, we think extra hours we are giving for two, three and four-year- the answer is no.” olds—that is helping women. So I do not accept what Let us listen to the Governor of the Bank of England, she says. This is a difficult economic environment, but Mervyn King: the changes we are making to public sector pensions, “There has to be a Plan A.” for instance, mean that low-paid people in the public [Interruption.] The Leader of the Opposition says that sector will actually get a better pension, including many he would not listen to him; it was Labour who appointed women. Because she, like everyone else on the other him. side, is in the pocket of the unions, they cannot see that “There has to be a Plan A…this country needs a fiscal consolidation or say it. starting from its largest peacetime budget…ever”. Who was it who gave us that peacetime budget? The Q4. [81733] Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): Labour party. Let us listen to the CBI, the leading Given the Government’s intention to freeze council tax, business organisation in this country: is the Prime Minister as astounded as I am that “Priorities for the next 12 months: Stick closely to the existing Green-run Brighton and Hove council is planning to credible plan”. decline £3 million of council tax grant and is planning That is what the experts say; that is what business says; instead to raise council tax by 3.5%, so costing local tax that is what the Bank of England says. Would you listen payers £4 million? to them or would you listen to the people who got us into this mess in the first place? The Prime Minister: That is a very important point. At a time of difficult household budgets, it is this Q2. [81731] Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): Government who have cut the petrol tax, and we are Returning to next week’s public sector strikes— freezing the council tax and have made that money [Interruption.] They don’t like it up ’em, do they? Is available to councils up and down the country. It is a the Prime Minister aware that, of the three largest decision for individual councils. If they want the money unions, the turnouts in the strike ballot were 32%, 31% to go ahead with the council tax freeze, the money is and 25% respectively? Does my right hon. Friend agree there, but if they reject it, as they plan to in Brighton, that any striker has the right to strike if he so wishes, that is a huge mistake, because the council will be but he should not engage in mass action unless he has asking families in Brighton to pay more at a time when the support of the majority of those unions’ it should be on their side. membership? Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Earlier The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very this year, the Prime Minister confirmed that he would important point. As I said, it is wrong that these strikes meet members of the cross-party inquiry into stalking, are going ahead when negotiations are under way. It is which I chair. It is indeed welcome news that the Home wrong to strike and to close so many classrooms and Office will now be consulting with a view to legislating. essential services, but it is being done on the basis of Will he confirm that the inquiry’s evidence-based those turnouts. Just one quarter of Unison members deliberations and conclusions will be fully taken into voted to strike, and just 23% of those balloted at Unite account in considering future legislation? voted in favour. [Interruption.] I am not surprised that Labour Members want to shout me down. We know The Prime Minister: I can certainly give the right hon. why they will not condemn the strikes, because we got Gentleman that assurance. It is important that we take the figures today on where they get their money from. forward the work that the Home Office and the Ministry In the right hon. Gentleman’s first year as leader of the of Justice have done in looking at a proper, separate party, 86% of Labour’s donations have come from the offence for stalking and recognising that there is a gap trade unions—86%! Under the previous Labour leader, in the current law that we should fill, because there are it was 56%. That is about the only thing the Leader of people who are not getting the protection and help from the Opposition has improved since the time of Gordon the police that they need. Brown.

Q3. [81732] Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): I Q5. [81734] Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) understand that the Prime Minister is having trouble (Con): There is genuine concern in Crewe about connecting with women and is seeking advice. Given over-development in respect of housing. How can my that female unemployment has increased this year by right hon. Friend ensure that my constituents get a 20%, that women have been the hardest hit by public greater say in planning decisions for new housing sector cuts and the VAT rise, and that they have estates required for our housing shortage? benefited the least from his tax give-aways, does he not agree that it is time for a plan B which reverses the VAT The Prime Minister: The great strength of the Localism increase and ensures that benefits increase in line with Act is that we are giving local people a much greater say. inflation? In many parts of the country, that will be welcomed, because people can see the advantages of development The Prime Minister: I do not agree with the hon. going ahead, and recognise that if they build extra Lady. Of course, every family in Britain is facing a houses they will keep the council tax and that if they difficult time, with rising inflation, tight household attract extra businesses they will keep the business budgets and a public sector pay freeze. But let us look at taxes. That will help to end the problem that we have what we are doing in terms of trying to help women. Of had for so long of communities not seeing any advantage 293 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 294 in development taking place. But it should be a matter than the six months under the future jobs fund. Secondly, for them to decide, as in the case of Crewe. one of the most successful schemes that there has been in recent years is giving people work experience placements. Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): Does the We will produce evidence on that soon. In many cases, it Prime Minister agree that the history of Northern Rock is leading to direct employment opportunities for young represents a kind of modern-day morality tale or play, people. The Deputy Prime Minister will say more about in that here we have a decent, mutual and responsible that later this week, but we are doing everything that we building society, which is then privatised, then over-extends, can to help young people into work and to prevent the then goes bust, is then bailed out by the taxpayer, and scarring effects that the hon. Gentleman talks about. now, sadly, instead of returning to mutuality, is sold off dirt cheap to one of the brashest companies in England? Q8. [81737] Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con): May I associate myself with the Prime Minister’s tribute to The Prime Minister: I was with the right hon. Gentleman Alan Keen? He was our dear friend and colleague on for some of the way through his question, but let us the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport. look at the decision the Government have taken. First, Everybody who worked with him will miss him greatly. we are selling a business that was costing the taxpayer money, and getting well over £700 million for that Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that one of business. The second thing we are doing, which is in the most disruptive impacts of next week’s strikes will be on interests of every single person in this House and everyone mums and dads with children in school? Will he join me in this country, is to get another functioning bank and in encouraging employers to allow parents to bring building society on our high street lending money. How their children to work when it is safe to do so? many times do all of us go to our constituency surgeries and hear people say, “I can’t get a mortgage”, or small The Prime Minister: I am sure that everyone in the businesses say, “I can’t get a loan”? We need a good, House will agree with the tribute that my hon. Friend new, healthy lending institution out there, and hon. paid to her colleague from the Select Committee and to Members should welcome the fact that it is going to be the very good work that he did on that Committee. based in the north-east of England, as Northern Rock My hon. Friend makes a good point about the strikes was. next week. Frankly, the strikes are going to go ahead and everybody should be very clear about where the Q6. [81735] Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): At a time responsibility lies: it lies with the union leaders and with when the Government are taking steps to drive growth the Labour party, which is taking their side and backing in the economy, will the Prime Minister update the the strike. She makes the important point that when it is House on what measures are being taken to attract safe for people to take their children to work, organisations high-quality inward investment to enterprise zones should allow them to do so. such as Warton in my constituency? Q9. [81738] Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton The Prime Minister: I do think the enterprise zones West) (Lab/Co-op): The Prime Minister is probably are going to be a success, because we are basing them, aware that up to 20,000 individuals across the United as in my hon. Friend’s constituency, in areas where Kingdom have lost considerable sums of money, often there is already a successful cluster of businesses. Take, their pension savings, through the collapse of the Arch for instance, the enterprise zones at Daresbury science Cru investment fund. That fund was advertised and park or at Harwell in Oxfordshire, or the one in marketed as being cautious, and turned out to be Wolverhampton, where Jaguar Land Rover has said anything but. Will he heed the calls from all parts of that it is going to establish a new plant employing 1,000 the House for the Government to use the powers of people. Enterprise zones are being well applied, they are section 14 of the Financial Services and Markets a good success story, and this Government are right Act 2000 to institute an immediate inquiry so that this behind them. never happens again?

Q7. [81736] Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): The personal damage caused by long-term unemployment The Prime Minister: Like the hon. Gentleman, I have can be phenomenal. On average, somebody who is been contacted by constituents who have lost money unemployed for more than six months is six times more because of that fund and who are very concerned about likely to contract a serious mental health problem. what is happening. There has been a Westminster Hall Does the Prime Minister not worry that we will have a debate on this issue, where the Financial Secretary to generation of young people who will suffer many of the the Treasury set out the position and the responsibility problems of lack of self-esteem and of never having a of the Financial Services Authority. I will look carefully first job? Would it not make more sense to guarantee at what the hon. Gentleman says and see whether we every under 24-year-old a job after six months’ can do more. unemployment, thus paying them to work, not paying them benefits? Q10. [81739] Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I fully understand that savings have to be made in the The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman makes an defence budget, but I am very concerned by the important point about the scarring effect of long-term proposals for significant cuts to the Ministry of youth unemployment. We are doing two important Defence police budget and the possible implications for things to try to help with that. First, we are helping security at the nuclear bases at Faslane and Coulport in those not in employment, education or training within my constituency. Will the Prime Minister please look at three months through the Work programme, rather those proposals carefully? 295 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 296

The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important The Prime Minister: Thank you, Mr Speaker. If the point. The defence budget overall is £35 billion and it hon. Lady wants celebrate something in the NHS, mixed-sex will continue at pretty much that cash figure throughout wards are down 90% since this Government came to this Parliament. It will still be the fourth largest defence office. budget anywhere in the world. I assure him that there are no current plans to reduce the number of Ministry Q13. [81742] Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): Is of Defence police at the Faslane or Coulport naval my right hon. Friend aware of research by the bases. Those are vital sites, as he knows, but obviously TaxPayers Alliance—[Interruption]—that shows that we have to look at all the costs at the Ministry of residents of the Maldon district are paying more in Defence and ensure that we are getting the safety that motoring taxes and receiving less in direct benefit than we need. anyone else in the entire country? My constituents appreciate that they would be paying even more in Q11. [81740] Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) motoring taxes under the plans of the previous Labour (Lab): Does the Prime Minister favour the Government, but does my right hon. Friend accept establishment of local authorities that meet only to give that, for them and others in rural areas, such taxes are out contracts to others and that provide no direct becoming an intolerable burden? services to the local population? The Prime Minister: I do accept what my hon. Friend says. That is why in the Budget we took the decision not The Prime Minister: What I support is local authorities only to get rid of the tax increases on petrol that were that provide good services and keep their council taxes coming down the track, but to make a cut in petrol duty. down. I think that the hon. Gentleman’s part of the Effectively, that was 6p off a litre of diesel or petrol. It world has had the advantage of a bit of change and seems to me essential that, at a time of economic some common-sense conservatism. difficulty, we demonstrate that we are behind those people who want to work hard and do the right thing, Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): Some by freezing their council tax, scrapping Labour’s jobs 1,600 people are employed by Thomas Cook at its tax and helping them with their motoring expenses. headquarters in Peterborough. They are rightly concerned This Government are absolutely committed to doing about the media coverage over the last two days of the that. It is all very well Opposition Members shouting company’s difficulties. Will my right hon. Friend join about the TaxPayers Alliance, but it does a good job of me in supporting this great British institution, which drawing attention to those things. Also, the difference is has been providing travel to British people for 170 years? that the TaxPayers Alliance does not pay us to put People can support the company by booking their down amendments. holidays through Thomas Cook, safe in the knowledge that it is part of the ATOL scheme, and they will have Q14. [81743] Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) an excellent holiday to boot. (Lab): The whole House will approve of the belated conversion of the Justice Secretary to the office of the The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend speaks up for an chief coroner, but there are many concerns in the iconic and important British business that has given House about war memorials. The other week I brought people a lot of pleasure over the years. I have asked the a petition to the Prime Minister, which 3,000 people in Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to give Blackpool had signed. Will he now use his office and me a report on what is happening at Thomas Cook, his weight to persuade the Justice Secretary and his because it is important to ensure that it is in a good, Ministers to look urgently at new protections for war healthy state. memorials and new penalties for those who attack them? Q12. [81741] Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): The Prime Minister: I think that the hon. Gentleman Recent research has shown that the NHS achieved the speaks for the whole House and the whole country in biggest drop in cancer deaths and the most efficient use saying that what has been happening to our war memorials of resources among 10 leading countries. Will the is completely unacceptable. I do not think there is a Prime Minister accept that he did not inherit an NHS single answer. It may lie, as he said, in some new in crisis, but one that was rapidly improving? Will he punishments and rules, but it also lies in looking at how stop using dodgy 10-year-old statistics to justify his the scrap metal market is currently regulated. wasteful and destructive NHS privatisation? I hear very clearly what the hon. Gentleman says about the office of the chief coroner. I am delighted The Prime Minister: I am a huge supporter and fan of that we have been able to put forward an amendment the NHS. There are many things that are truly wonderful and to accept some of those points. The one thing that about our NHS. We should celebrate that, but under the we should try to avoid—this is really important, because last Government, the number of managers in the NHS all of us want to do the right thing for those soldiers doubled—the number of NHS managers was increasing and their families who have given so much to our six times faster than the number of nurses—and NHS country—is having an endless right of appeal. I do not productivity was falling. If a Government inherit a think that that would be a good idea. I think it would situation like that, it makes sense to make some changes. actually damage the interests of families— That is why we see, since we have come in, 14,000 fewer non-clinical staff, but more doctors and midwives, and Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to Prime Minister. more operations taking place. If the hon. Lady wants something to celebrate in the NHS—[Interruption.] Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): Over the last 30 years, thousands of vulnerable and disadvantaged children in Mr Speaker: Order. the UK have been supported through projects funded 297 Oral Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 298 by Children in Need. Will my right hon. Friend join me Minister assure the House today that those requests in congratulating Children in Need on raising more will be delivered prior to any 2014 withdrawal from than £600 million over the years, and will he pay tribute Afghanistan? to my constituents, who came together as a town, raised thousands of pounds and welcomed Pudsey bear home The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is right to for the first time? speak up on this issue and to repeat what he heard in Afghanistan. He is absolutely right that we need to help The Prime Minister: I am very glad my hon. Friend the neighbouring countries—and, as we speak, my national managed to get in, and I apologise, Mr Speaker, for security adviser and other members of my team are in almost squeezing him out. It would be a tragedy if we Pakistan speaking with the Pakistani Government. On did not have this opportunity to pay tribute to Pudsey the equipment, assistance and training given to the and all that Pudsey has achieved over many years. Afghan national army, we now publish a monthly report to the House so that everyone can see the progress that Q15. [81744] Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Last we are making in equipping and training the Afghan week, I visited Afghanistan through the armed forces national police and army. In spite of all the difficulties parliamentary scheme and had the opportunity to in Afghanistan, that is broadly on track. meet the commanding officer in Helmand province. He stated that he needs two things before any British Mr Speaker: We now come to the statement from the withdrawal in 2014: political help and influence with Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. I countries neighbouring Afghanistan to enable it to appeal to right hon. and hon. Members leaving the develop, and sufficient training and adequate Chamber to do so quickly and quietly so that those who equipment for the Afghan army. Can the Prime remain can hear the statement. 299 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 300

Annual Energy Statement and are providing £300 million in consumer incentives for ultra-low emissions vehicles and further support for research and development. 12.35 pm We are also working to secure Britain’s energy supplies. The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change We need significant new investment in power plants and (Chris Huhne): It is important that when we discuss infrastructure to meet future demand. In July, we published feed-in tariffs later today we understand the impact of the White Paper on electricity market reform, heralding our policies, and that is why we have brought forward the biggest change to the market since privatisation. We the annual energy statement—so that the House can are also introducing a new system of long-term contracts, discuss the matter in its proper context during the to remove uncertainty and attract investment, and a debate later. new mechanism for back-up electricity generation, to I am today publishing alongside the annual energy keep the lights on. We are setting new standards on statement a consultation document on secondary legislation emissions from power stations, to ensure that they are to provide for the green deal. It is important that we get clean, and the Treasury is supporting low-carbon generation this consultation under way as soon as possible because with a floor price for carbon, to help encourage low-carbon it will allow an expectant industry to begin planning for investment in the UK. Together, the reforms will deliver this vital energy-saving policy. secure, affordable electricity from a diverse mix of sources, including renewables, new nuclear and fossil fuels, including The statement on our energy policy fulfils a commitment carbon capture and storage. in the coalition agreement, and in describing the progress made and the policies under way, the statement also Each of those energy sources will be important. They honours one of the coalition’s principles: our commitment will work together in concert to deliver a reliable energy to open and transparent government. system, and over the past year we have introduced a range of policies to support them. We have published The consumer is at the heart of everything we do. the first ever renewables road map, setting out the Our decisions must ensure that the consumer is protected barriers to deployment and what must be done to as far as possible from rising prices, and so we will deploy renewable energy at scale. We have also published secure our energy at the lowest cost. We will do so in the a consultation on the right level of subsidy to support short term by promoting competition, in the medium jobs, investment and growth. Professor Weightman’s term by insulating our homes and in the long term by report into nuclear safety after Fukushima reassures me steering us away from excessive reliance on fossil fuels that nuclear can be an important and safe part of the and on to clean, green and secure energy. energy mix without public subsidy. In October, as part The ultimate goals of the Department of Energy and of our work to enable new nuclear build, I published the Climate Change are to deliver clean energy for the regulatory justifications for two reactor designs. Fossil future and to tackle dangerous climate change. Our fuels will remain important. That is why we are firmly vision is of a thriving and globally competitive low-carbon committed to carbon capture and storage, with £1 billion economy with cleaner energy, more efficient homes and still available for projects in the CCS programme, despite lower bills. Over the past 12 months, we have taken the disappointment of the Longannet project. Promising significant steps to achieve just that. On both supply projects have been proposed, and we are developing a and demand, we have begun to deliver key coalition streamlined selection process, which we will set out commitments, starting with energy efficiency. shortly. Gas will continue to feature strongly in our Energy saving is now an equal priority with energy energy mix, and our policies are designed to allow new production. An economy that wastes energy cannot gas plant to be built. I welcome Ofgem’s proposals to thrive in a high-demand, low-emissions world. Improving sharpen incentives for reliable gas supply. energy efficiency will save money and cut carbon, which We may need further measures to ensure that we are is why we are creating a new energy efficiency deployment ready for low-probability, high-impact events. I am office within the Department. Our first task is to make asking Ofgem to report to us by next spring on any such our homes and businesses less leaky and wasteful. The measures. We are improving the technical foundation of Energy Act 2011, which received Royal Assent earlier our energy security. Earlier this month, we laid the this year, provides for the green deal—the pioneering statutory security of supply report before Parliament, programme under which businesses will install energy-saving which sets out future supply and demand forecasts, and measures in our homes and recoup the costs over decades discusses risks and drivers. We are also making it easier from the energy savings. for new nationally significant energy projects to be I am today launching the consultation on the secondary delivered. In July, this House approved the national legislation that will allow green deals to begin next policy statements for energy infrastructure, against which autumn, including the energy company obligation, which major energy projects will be assessed. Developers can will support those who need the most help. Improving now have greater certainty about how applications for our buildings is vital but we must also change how we consent will be considered and absolute certainty on warm them in the first place. We are determined to help when decisions will be made, with statutory time scales consumers heat their homes and businesses securely to ensure investor confidence. and affordably, and we will publish a heat strategy next Our actions will maintain the diversity and security year. of our energy supplies. We are working hard to ensure We are also making it easier for people to save energy. that they are delivered at the lowest possible cost. In a In March, we set out the strategy and timetable for world of volatile fossil fuel prices—we all know about introducing smart meters, which can help consumers to the events in the middle east and Libya—those objectives manage their energy use. Furthermore, we continue to complement each other. We believe that the policies we push for ambitious EU vehicle emissions standards, have introduced will deliver the best value for consumers, 301 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 302 as we move towards a cleaner energy future. However, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and as we embark on the transformation of our energy the Treasury to announce measures before the end of system, we must take people with us. That is why I am the year to support those energy-intensive industries today publishing an assessment of prices and bills, and whose competitiveness is most at risk. the impact of our policies. The energy sector is a vital part of our economy. Overall, we anticipate that rising world gas prices will Energy industries employ 173,000 people, contribute push up bills for both gas and electricity, but our nearly 4% of our gross domestic product and provide policies will moderate that rise. By 2020, we expect more than half of our industrial investment. More than household bills to be 7%—or £94—lower than they 51,000 companies in Britain provide low-carbon and would otherwise be without our policies. Moreover, environmental goods and services. Exports are now bills will be lower during this Parliament. Britain’s £11.3 billion a year—up 3.9%. Last year, nearly 4,500 new homes will be cheaper to heat and to light than if we did jobs were created in the sector, which grew by 4.3%. nothing, in this Parliament and in the longer term. We expect that our policies, like the renewable heat Those savings will result above all from our energy-saving incentive, will strengthen supply chains across the country, policies and from market reform. In addition, we decided bringing jobs and growth. The green deal alone will to fund the renewable heat incentive and carbon capture kick-start at least £14 billion of investment in the decade and storage commitments from general taxation, rather to 2022 and support at least 65,000 insulation and than from planned levies. construction jobs by 2015. We want to ensure that To sum up again, rising global fossil fuel prices and young people today can play their part in the industries decades of under-investment will mean that prices for of tomorrow, so we are supporting green apprenticeships energy will rise in the UK, just as they will elsewhere. to build the skilled work force we need to deliver the We cannot control global gas prices, but we can, as a green deal. Government, soften the blow. Prices and bills are forecast In conclusion, between now and 2030, our relationship to rise, but we can ensure that they rise less than they with energy will change fundamentally. We have to would otherwise have done. build a new energy portfolio—one that is equal to our We want to leave a fairer energy legacy than those changing needs and our ambitious carbon targets. It before us did. Between 2001 and 2009, fuel poverty has to be supported by a new consensus. Helping consumers doubled. The warm home discount and the affordable to understand their energy costs, and how our policies warmth part of the ECO, on which we are consulting, affect them, is key. The decisions we take now will affect are targeted at the poorest and most vulnerable households. the way our energy is delivered for decades to come. I The warm home discount will support up to 2 million commend the statement to the House. homes each year, helping more than 600,000 poorer pensioners, with £120 off their energy bills this winter. Mr Speaker: We are grateful to the Secretary of State, Other vulnerable people will also be eligible for a rebate. who has significantly exceeded his time. I gently remind That discount scheme is worth two thirds more than the him of the merits of the use of the blue pencil. So far as voluntary scheme that operated under the last Government. today is concerned, I must obviously make an allowance The Warm Front programme helped 130,000 households in respect of the response from the shadow Secretary of last year, providing advice and installing heating and State. insulation, with a further 90,000 set to benefit over the next two years. As it phases out, the affordable warmth Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): I thank the Secretary part of the ECO subsidies will phase in to replace it. of State for briefing the media about his statement We are also helping consumers more generally to take today, before informing either the House or the Opposition. advantage of a competitive energy market. Consumers Is it any surprise that he is becoming increasingly rattled could save up to £200 by shopping around for the by growing opposition from his own Benches to the lowest online rate, but last year fewer than one in five Government’s cuts in the solar power sector, and has households switched suppliers. We are making it easier chosen to bring his statement forward in order to squeeze and faster to switch, and we have launched a campaign time in our Opposition day debate this afternoon? to encourage consumers to check, switch and insulate Perhaps he is also trying to put a gloss on the Government’s to save. energy policy before the energy statistics are published We are also mindful of the impact on businesses. tomorrow—or perhaps advisers or lobbyists with “excellent Earlier this year we published our proposals on contacts”with Ministers advised him to bring his statement the simplification of the CRC—carbon reduction forward. Whatever the reason, disrespect has been shown commitment—energy efficiency scheme and for the new to the House today. climate change agreements. We are committed to simplifying The Secretary of State said, “The consumer is at the the regulatory burden on industry, while driving behaviour heart of everything we do.” Will he start by telling us change to improve efficiency and reduce emissions. what the Government will actually do to deal with Lower levels of energy efficiency savings mean that soaring energy prices? Energy bills are up by 20% this our policies will typically have a larger impact on energy year, and standard tariffs rose by £175 between June bills for businesses. By 2020, policies are estimated to and November alone, driving up inflation and squeezing add 19% to the average energy bill of businesses that are household budgets. The Government, however, are so medium-sized energy consumers. For large energy-intensive out of touch that their only answer is to tell people to users, who are more exposed to fossil fuel price volatility, shop around, and their only policy is to cut help to that figure is between 2% and 20%. It is important that pensioners this winter. Can the Secretary of State explain these industries play their part in the transition to a why, with the end of the Warm Front scheme, for the low-carbon economy, but it is also important that they first time since the 1970s a British Government are not remain competitive. That is why we are working with offering grants to help to reduce fuel poverty? 303 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 304

[Caroline Flint] investment that we need when the Government are so short-sighted and so short-term, and chop and change The most effective and sustainable way of cutting their policies at every turn? bills is to reduce energy use, but the Government’s Today’s statement is just more evidence that the flagship energy efficiency programme, the green deal, Government are out of touch, are cutting too far and has been delayed and is in chaos. We were expecting the too fast, and have no plans for jobs and growth. green deal consultation back in September. More than two months later, it has finally appeared, but we are still Chris Huhne: The right hon. Lady asked what we not clear about what incentives households will be were doing to help those who face substantial increases offered to take up the green deal, or what the Government in energy bills. Over the last year there has been a 38% will do to ensure that the 10p rate for a green deal increase in world gas prices for delivery this winter, and package is low enough to secure the widest possible that will inevitably be reflected in both gas and electricity range of energy efficiency measures and the best deal bills. We have tried to protect consumers by taking the for bill payers. Can the Secretary of State confirm that renewable heat incentive off the levy system and into the Government’s forecast of the number of jobs to be general public expenditure, and by taking similar action created by the green deal has been slashed from 100,000 in relation to carbon capture and storage. We have to just 65,000 by 2015? capped the feed-in tariff, and we are helping the consumer Earlier this year, my right hon. Friend the Leader of as much as we possibly can. the Opposition set out bold plans to break the dominance Far from our being afraid to take on the big six, of the big six by requiring energy companies to sell Ofgem has clamped down on mis-selling, and we have power into a pool, thus allowing new suppliers to enter ensured that the big six must inform people before the market, increasing competition, and driving up raising tariffs. We have reduced the period within which choice for consumers. Will the Secretary of State explain consumers can switch suppliers to three weeks, and we why he is so afraid of standing up to vested interests in are considering giving Ofgem powers to require companies the energy industry, and delivering the reform that our to provide redress. All those steps constitute clear evidence energy market needs? of the determination of the Government and Ofgem to The green economy currently employs 800,000 people. make this a highly competitive retail and wholesale It is estimated that the global market for low-carbon market, which is the best guarantee for consumers that goods and services will be worth £4 trillion by 2015, they will be given the best possible deal now and in the with the potential to create 400,000 new jobs, but as a future. direct result of the uncertainty that the Government The right hon. Lady mentioned the Warm Front have created, the UK is falling behind. Last year, when scheme. She gave us no credit for the fact that the we left office, it was ranked third in the world for consultation documents on the green deal that were investment in green growth. We are now ranked 13th, published today clearly show that we are replacing that behind Brazil and India. That is bad for our economy, scheme with the affordable warmth obligation referred bad for our energy security, and bad for the prices that to in the ECO consultation, or for the fact that the consumers pay, because it makes us ever more reliant on warm homes discount scheme is now statutory—it is events overseas that are beyond our control. not a voluntary scheme like that operated by the Labour Just yesterday, the Science and Technology Committee Government—and will make the discounts available to in the House of Lords accused the Government of those experiencing fuel poverty two thirds higher than complacency over the skills required for the nuclear those provided by the old voluntary scheme. industry. Given that power stations in the UK already The right hon. Lady asked about incentives. The import staff from the southern hemisphere to run them, Chancellor of the Exchequer could not have made it given that many of the firms currently providing solar clearer in his Budget speech that he would consider power are about to go to the wall, and given that British them. I believe that if the right hon. Lady waits for a Gas has just announced that 850 jobs are to go, will the matter of weeks, all will be made clear in regard to the Secretary of State tell the House how he plans to halt Chancellor’s commitment to ensuring that the green the worrying decline in investment in the UK? deal is a great success. She should also bear in mind that We look forward to the Government’s forthcoming we have already provided incentives, in addition to announcements on how they propose to support those that the Chancellor is considering. For example, energy-intensive industries, and we hope that their all F and G-rated homes in the private rented sector will proposals will extend to both gas and electricity, but have to be upgraded by 2018 so that tenants can enjoy will the Secretary of State tell us exactly how much of the benefits of energy saving. the proceeds of CRC are going back into Treasury Finally, the right hon. Lady asked what we were coffers? Under Labour’s scheme, the money was returned doing to encourage investment. The whole purpose of to the hands of businesses to be invested in energy the electricity market reform which will be the efficiency. centrepiece of the energy Bill that we will present in the We shall have time to deal with the Government’s second Session in May, and which we have already cuts in feed-in tariffs later this afternoon, but what sort announced in the White Paper, is to provide the certainty of message does this whole debacle send out? How can that will lead to investment which, for years, the last the Government encourage investors to support the Labour Government failed to deliver. A quarter of our renewable heat incentive, the green deal or any other power stations are going offline in the next 10 years: a green policies in the future, when a growing sector, built quarter of our capacity. What did the last Labour on a flagship policy that had cross-party support, has Government do? Nothing—absolutely nothing. Yet the been cut off at the knees with just six weeks’ notice? right hon. Lady, seemingly arriving from Mars, has had How can anyone have enough confidence to make the the temerity to come here today and pretend that we are 305 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 306 not taking action, as if the last Labour Government unabated gas rather than coal, that in itself will save had. I have to hand it to her: for sheer brass neck, she about half the carbon emissions. For the longer term gets the prize. however, CCS is essential if we are going to be able to use gas, especially if we find, as I hope we will, that we Several hon. Members rose— have considerable exploitable reserves of shale gas under Lancashire and elsewhere. Mr Speaker: Order. There is notable interest in the As I have said, Longannet was a disappointment—I statement, but I remind the House that today is an made a statement to the House on that—but other Opposition day, and that there are two well-subscribed projects are coming forward. Peterhead is nearer the debates to follow. I want the first of them to begin reservoirs than Longannet, so the pipeline costs are before too long. Brevity is essential from Members—led, likely to be lower, and less investment will be needed to I feel sure, by Mr Peter Lilley. upgrade the plant in line with the large combustion plant directive. All the parties who were involved in the Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): My Longannet negotiation are confident that we can deliver right hon. Friend made the breathtaking claim that he a commercial-scale CCS plant for within that £1 billion intended to keep energy prices as low as possible. How budget, and we intend to do so. does he square that with the Stern review, on which his policy to combat climate change is based, and which makes clear that that policy can work only if energy Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) prices are raised to include the external cost of global (LD): The Secretary of State highlighted the future role heating, and if the cost of hydrocarbon-based energy is of gas in the economy, and producing our own gas is also raised to make it more expensive than other forms obviously the best option. To that end, will he stress to of sustainable energy? In short, if his policy is not the European Union that its attempt to regulate the hurting, it is not working. offshore oil and gas industry is in danger of creating regulatory confusion and more uncertainty, and that it Chris Huhne: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman would be far better to go down the directive route? for his question. If he is in any way unsatisfied with the explanations that we have given in the documents— Chris Huhne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for explanations which are considerably more detailed than making that point. He is absolutely right. If we are those provided by any previous Government—he should going to introduce minimum standards for offshore oil ask for a briefing, and we will ensure that he receives and gas—the Commission has been kind enough to say any additional answers that he may require. they should be modelled on those for the UK continental shelf—that should be on the basis of a directive, so that The key point, however, is that a substantial part of we can use our own legal means to enforce the standards, what we need to do to tackle climate change involves rather than a regulation. A regulation that would apply measures included in our green deal legislation which directly in all the member states would be inappropriate pay for themselves and do not involve a cost, while because countries’ circumstances are inevitably different. those that do involve a cost—namely the raising of prices to enable us to move to a low-carbon economy Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): In spite when it comes to electricity generation—are offset by of the warm words about the importance of tackling the reduction in energy volumes precisely because of fuel poverty, next year will be the first year in three our energy-saving measures. decades when there has not been a Treasury-funded I commend the document to the right hon. Gentleman. scheme to do precisely that. Instead, we have a regressive I am sure he will find is persuasive. scheme that will fund the energy company obligation through a levy on fuel bills. As the ECO will be split Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): If the last into two pots—the hard to treat and the fuel poor—will Labour Government did nothing about energy policy, I the Secretary of State ensure that the latter group does cannot think why I was so busy all the time. not end up in effect subsidising the former, by making To raise the tone of this discussion, I welcome what sure he focuses on the fuel poor, the 1.9 million households the Secretary of State said about long-term contracts, in fuel poverty who happen to live in hard-to-treat and I would like to hear more. On carbon capture and homes? storage, the Secretary of State knows that despite all the excitement about feed-in tariffs, renewables and nuclear, Chris Huhne: The hon. Lady will know that I am the world, including the United Kingdom, will mainly passionately committed to helping the fuel poor. That is be using fossil fuels for the next few decades. What is why we have increased the amount of warm home happening in respect of CCS? There have been some discount compared with the voluntary schemes. I disagree disappointments in recent months. When does the Secretary with her that the ECO subsidy is an ineffective way of of State think the first CCS plant in the UK will be reaching such people or that it is more regressive than operating and helping to clean up our planet? other schemes. The fact that the previous scheme was Exchequer-funded was by the by. What is important is Chris Huhne: I certainly did not want to imply that achieving the key outcome of tackling the root causes the right hon. Gentleman, who has considerable expertise of fuel poverty, and that we will do. in this area, was in any way slacking when he was an Energy Minister—although I think he might have had Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I better support from his colleagues on certain occasions. understand that France has persuaded the European CCS is a key technology. The right hon. Gentleman is Commission to accept nuclear power as a renewable. absolutely right to say that we are going to continue to Will the Secretary of State negotiate a similar deal for be reliant on gas and other fossil fuels. If we move to this country, and will he also make sure that the information 307 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 308

[Miss Anne McIntosh] Chris Huhne: I have had continued discussions with Ofgem and, indeed, with the First Minister of Scotland. on our energy bills is transparently clear, so we know He and I think absolutely alike on the importance of how much of what we pay is subsidy for renewable moving to a regime that does not penalise energy sources energy? for being further away from the market, precisely because renewable sources will inevitably be located where the Chris Huhne: I can do better than that, because the renewables are. Also, nuclear is generally not welcome document published today contains precisely that in the middle of our cities. For those reasons transmission information on the impacts on prices and bills. We want charging should be amended. Ofgem is looking at that to be as transparent as possible, because it is important at present, but it is up to it to do so as an independent that people understand that although there will be price regulator. increases, we can, particularly as a result of our energy- saving measures, also get volumes down, which is crucial Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): The majority to getting bills down. There is no point in our having of consumers seek to shop around when their tariff unsubsidised energy and merely heating the atmosphere; rises, only then to run the danger that their new tariff we want to heat our homes, not merely push the heat will rise even further only days later. What measures are out of leaky and draughty homes into the atmosphere. being considered to protect consumers on new tariffs for either six or 12 months? Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): I heard the Secretary of State’s comments about the potential of Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman is right. Consumers the Peterhead CCS project, and I would welcome investment have the option to choose a fixed rate of course, which there. However, is it not true that the Longannet project will be for a specified period. At the time of the recent was much more important to the country because it is a consumer energy summit, we made the key point that coal-powered station, as opposed to the gas-powered the big six, which supply 99% of our households, had station at Peterhead, and coal is the main export market announced their tariff changes and that some of them for CCS? Is it not also the case that Shell and Scottish had committed to keeping them all the way through the Power have got their sums right, and that their assessment winter. Right now is therefore a rather good time to of the investment required for the CCS power we need compare prices and switch to the cheapest tariff. is much more realistic than the Government’s? We have thrown away the great potential of a large export market. John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): I understand that it is important to get money into the Treasury, but is that more important than people’s lives? Chris Huhne: CCS is a catch-all for a substantial The Hills report found that thousands of people will die number of different types of technology designed to do as a result of this Government’s policies. What is more the same thing: take the carbon out of the process of important: money to the Exchequer or people’s lives? the combustion of fossil fuels. I disagree about gas versus coal, as I think gas, along with coal, will play a very important part in world supply for a long time, and Chris Huhne: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is there will be substantial CCS markets in both of them. not giving credit where it is due, although I cannot say It is important that the UK is in the lead in that. that it is terribly surprising. I commissioned John Hills to produce that report precisely because I wanted a really good and authoritative review of how we can best Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): The tackle fuel poverty. I am determined that we shall do Government support the three recommendations of the that. One conclusion of the interim report from Professor billing stakeholder group, which I chaired at the Hills was that there are 25,000 excess winter deaths and Government’s behest, but there is strong evidence that that perhaps 10% of them—a similar figure to those one of those key recommendations is being ignored by killed on the roads—are due to fuel poverty. We are the energy suppliers: the requirement that they contact determined to tackle that issue—[Interruption.] That is each of their customers informing them on whether after 13 years of Labour government; let us please have they are on the company’s cheapest standard direct-debit a little cross-party consensus on trying to tackle the tariff. What are the Government going to do to put this problem while recognising that it needs to be dealt with right? in the long run and that we have the means to tackle it at source as well as in the short-term through the warm Chris Huhne: First, I want to pay tribute to the hon. home discount. Gentleman for his efforts in this area. We raised this point with the big six at the consumer energy summit, David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): The Secretary and my understanding is that they are in the process of of State will be aware that in the last year of the notifying their customers. Perhaps not all those letters previous Government, less than 3% of our energy came have gone out yet, but one of the commitments was that from renewables and we were 25th out of 27 in the EU. customers were going to be notified when there was a By what extent does he expect to improve on that by the cheaper tariff they could move to online. end of this Parliament?

Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): In what was a lengthy Chris Huhne: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his statement, the Secretary of State made no mention of question. We are determined to be the fastest-improving either the long-standing problem of transmission charging, pupil in the class. At the moment, as the hon. Gentleman which affects green energy, or Ofgem’s Project TransmiT. has pointed out, the inheritance from the previous What progress is being made, and will he finally take Government puts us firmly in the dunces corner on action to tackle this problem? renewables, but we are working our way out. 309 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 310

Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): The right hon. Gentleman Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): Does the will be very much aware of the situation at Rio Tinto Secretary of State understand the concerns of those Alcan in my constituency, where 650 jobs are likely to who have “prepared their homes”, to use his words, and be lost as a result of green taxes and high energy costs. fitted solar panels about the pace of the reduction in What assurances can he give the work force at Rio feed-in tariffs, especially when they see the onshore Tinto Alcan that the package of measures that have wind industry being rewarded for inefficiency and destroying been promised and promised again for energy intensive the UK countryside? industries will be sufficient to keep the plant in operation and maintain the jobs, plus 3,000 jobs in the supply Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend raises an interesting chain? point. We have cut the subsidies for the offshore and onshore wind industry, too, and we have done so because Chris Huhne: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s this Government are firmly committed to making sure concern, which I have shared. I met the executives from that we deliver what we intend to deliver—that is, the Rio Tinto Alcan who deal with that plant and I put to shift to a low carbon economy—at the lowest possible them a simple question: if we were able to provide cost to British consumers. I am sure that we will have a support for electricity generation through, for example, greater opportunity to debate this subject later today, conversion to biomass, would they guarantee that they but I merely point out that the subsidies for solar would keep the plant open? They did not give me an feed-in tariffs now reflect a substantial fall in the costs answer and one executive is quoted as saying that the of the underlying technology. That fall in costs, caused 40-year-old plant was beyond Government subsidy. I by the global changes in circumstances over the past do not think that, and I very much hope that we can year, means that those subsidies are providing a very work on finding a solution, but I can assure the hon. similar real rate of return to that which was planned Gentleman that the energy intensive package is under when the scheme was launched in April 2010. serious and urgent consideration. It is on course to be announced by the end of the year, which is what we Several hon. Members rose— were committed to doing, and it is also a matter of regret to me that the announcement was made about the Rio Tinto Alcan plant before the managers had the Mr Speaker: Order. If it is possible to find a one opportunity to read what we were able to say, which sentence question and a relatively pithy reply—I do not suggests to me that they had previously made up their wish to be too ambitious—that would be a considerable mind. achievement. I look to one of the wise heads of the House and call Dr William McCrea. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): Of course, energy bill payers contribute a few quid towards the support of Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): During renewables, but the big six help themselves to £150 per the winter months, the poorest members of our society annum per household. Does my right hon. Friend believe will face soaring electricity bills and many in Northern that that is a reasonable balance, and how can we Ireland have no alternative to heating oil. What action achieve a reasonable balance? will the Secretary of State take to make home heating oil affordable to the most vulnerable in our society? Chris Huhne: The key in any market is to ensure that it is properly competitive. I am absolutely in favour of Chris Huhne: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for shareholders, particularly since they are usually our raising the issue of home heating oil because, as he pension funds and our insurance companies, making knows, last winter that issue caused us a lot of concern. the best possible return in a competitive market. That is We referred the matter to the Office of Fair Trading and why we are stressing the key competitiveness requirements I was surprised with its conclusion but we must accept of the wholesale market and the retail market. When we that it followed a full investigation. The longer-run get that right, we will have the assurance that the rates solution will be to ensure that people are less reliant on of return in the marketplace for the big six and, I hope, the heat from heating oil through energy insulation and for the new entrants to the market will be fair, precisely the green deal. We are determined that those who are because they have been earned fair and square in a off the gas grid will be able to take every opportunity to competitive market. enjoy the benefits of the green deal, too.

Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): Small solar panel The Secretary of State referred to the green deal in his companies about which I have written to the Secretary statement. What is he doing to ensure that VAT on of State’s Department are having a particularly hard products used in the green deal is set at the same level as experience following the change in the tariff. They will for the energy it is designed to save—that is, at 5% and lose jobs over it and they are asking whether the domestic not 20%? 4 kW rate can be considered as a taper for a longer period so that they can recover from the shock of the Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman raises an important quick cut in the tariff rate when they cannot deliver as point. There are substantial anomalies—and not just quickly as the big boys. that one—in the VAT regime. It is not always possible, because of the commitments in the EU legislation, for Chris Huhne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that member states to make unilateral changes to that regime question. This is a consultation and a genuine one. We but he certainly makes a sensible point and I am sure have made serious proposals and we are waiting for the that the powers that be at the Treasury will listen responses. We will take those responses into account carefully to it. when we come to make decisions. 311 Annual Energy Statement23 NOVEMBER 2011 Annual Energy Statement 312

Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Energy companies often 15% of consumers switch, whereas with car insurance cite investment in generating power as the reason for the about half do so through online sites. We need to get up price rises. What assessment has the Secretary of State to that figure and we will then find that the market made of the amount of money made on the price rises works much more effectively. compared with the companies’ investment in generating power? Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): Constituents have informed me not only that they are Chris Huhne: The hon. Lady raises an interesting angry about the drop in the tariff and the potential loss point. The need for new investment is clearly factored of jobs in my area—these are people who have invested into the price projections in the documentation. It is not in the solar energy industry—but that the arbitrary just about the rise in the overall world price in gas that is deadline of 12 December means that there has been a driving what is happening to our bills but the need to rush for installation of solar energy in people’s homes, which build a quarter of the capacity that is coming offline. is producing a sharp increase in the price of the components That is factored into the calculations. in panels. Does this not show that the Secretary of State has thought very little about the impact of this policy Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Has my right hon. on the energy industry? Friend had the opportunity to look at how other countries, particularly Germany, support their high intensity Chris Huhne: I disagree with the hon. Lady. When a manufacturing users of energy to keep bills down and policy is clearly going off the rails, it is important to jobs in the country? grip it as quickly as possible. The problem with the industry was that it was massively exceeding its budget. Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend will know that my If we had not acted, we would have been adding anything esteemed colleague, the Minister of State, Department between £26 and £55 to the average household bill by of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for the end of this Parliament, which would simply have Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker), was there in September. been too much. We have had to take account of the cost We have done considerable work to look at the experience to the consumer and I very much regret that the Opposition of other countries, which is a theme that we might come do not seem to remember that. back to in the debate on the solar feed-in tariff. This David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): Government do not believe that it is sensible to sit in a Twelve months ago today, after last year’s statement, I room and try to develop things from scratch and a put forward a proposal about topping up card meters priori if other countries have already done so and we online, as I have them at home. I have gas and electricity can learn the lessons from them. from British Gas, and I am pleased to report to the House that that has happened with British Gas. Hon. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): How can the Members can take it from me that electricity is far policy change on the tariff possibly be a consultation cheaper than gas, and I urge the Secretary of State to when it is already set to change on 6 December? My take that into consideration. Is not now the time to put constituent, Keith Bonner, wanted to install solar panels more money into nuclear power and push that industry and he tells me that the £12,000 investment is no longer forward for jobs and in my constituency? viable because of the change in policy. How does the change in policy fit with the requirements set out in the Chris Huhne: Nuclear is one of the three key pillars Secretary of State’s statement of increasing renewable on the supply side, with the fourth pillar being energy energy, tackling climate change and reducing emissions? saving. Those are the key parts of our policy. We have been meeting all our deadlines except those that arose Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman should know that immediately after the Fukushima disaster when I thought there will not be a change in tariff before April. The key it was important to ask Dr Weightman to come up with point is that the old tariff is applicable to any scheme a report that answered people’s concerns about making that is installed either before or after 12 December, but sure that the same thing could not happen here. With any scheme that is installed after 12 December will have that one exception, we have been meeting our deadlines a lower tariff from April. We will have plenty of opportunity and we are on course for new nuclear without public to debate this later today and I am sure he will want to subsidy. contribute to that debate. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Secretary of State Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Will my right has referred to the carbon floor price and the carbon hon. Friend encourage Ofgem to deal with the tariff reduction commitment simplification proposals, both anomaly whereby household energy bills fall when of which give rise to concerns in Northern Ireland that households use more energy? Surely, that places a burden they will have a perverse impact given our market and on single and less well-off households and flies in the geographical realities. Those impacts would be counter face of our desire to encourage greater energy efficiency to the very policy goals that he has enunciated. Is he in households. receptive to those concerns and will he and his colleagues be responsive? Chris Huhne: There are many anomalies that Ofgem is looking at in this area. A key part of that will involve Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman raises some interesting looking at any unfairness in the system and making sure issues. We are in constant touch with the Northern particularly that we simplify tariffs. There are far too Ireland Executive and others on these matters and of many tariffs and that is confusing for consumers. If we course we are receptive to concerns and to amending can get a dramatic simplification, that will make the anything that would have a perverse effect of the type market work much more effectively. Currently, only he describes. 313 Annual Energy Statement 23 NOVEMBER 2011 314

Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): The right Points of Order hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), who speaks for the Opposition, made the serious charge that 1.25 pm the Minister had briefed journalists before coming to the House. In answering her question, it slipped his Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): On a point of mind to answer that point. Can he tell us that that did order, Mr Speaker. I would like to make a point about not take place and confirm it by publishing and putting the scheduling of this annual energy statement on an in the Library a copy of the media grid showing which Opposition day when we have two extremely important journalists were spoken to before the statement? debates with very short time limits for speakers. The statement was not a time-sensitive one and I hope that Chris Huhne: I assure my hon. Friend that I did not you will agree with me and deplore the fact that it was speak to any journalist before making this statement. scheduled in Opposition time. Secondly, the timing of As far as I am concerned, it is an important principle the statement was tweeted to the world by The Guardian that the House should be told first. environment correspondent at 9.37 this morning, 32 minutes before Opposition Front Benchers were informed that Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): The Secretary there would be a statement. Thirdly, the contents of the of State has set out the future energy supply and statement were extensively leaked to the same tweeting demand forecasts within the security of supply report. Guardian correspondent and appeared on its website at Is he confident that if those forecasts prove to be 10.35 this morning. Mr Speaker, I seek your rulings on inaccurate, we will be able to keep the lights on in this these issues, which show grave discourtesy to the House. country? Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her Chris Huhne: Because of the disappointing economic point of order, and I shall seek to the best of my ability situation, the margin of capacity has been rising. I am to respond to each of her three points in turn. First, the confident that we can do that, but we should not be timing of Government statements is a matter for the complacent. We need to keep the matter under review Government and I do not want to get into the merits or and we are certainly doing that, but I am confident that demerits of choosing a particular day, but the point will we can keep the lights on. have been heard by the Deputy Leader of the House and, at a distance from the Chamber, by the Leader of the House. Secondly, let me emphasise that notification of an intended statement should first and foremost be to other hon. and right hon. Members and the shadow team. It should not be to members of the press. That is disorderly and discourteous. Thirdly, I listened intently to the Secretary of State, as I always do, when he responded to the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone). He assured the House that he had not spoken to journalists about the contents of the statement, and of course I accept without hesitation what he says on that point. However, I would just gently—or perhaps not so gently—remind the Secretary of State that it is not just a question of Ministers not talking to the media. Ministers must not encourage, facilitate or permit any of their team, officials or advisers to do so either. This is the second time this week that there has been an instance of substantial information in a statement being conveyed first to the media. It will be a pity if further measures have to be contemplated and adopted for dealing with situations of this kind. I hope that the Secretary of State will take what I have said as a deterrent against any future such occurrence. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On 2 November the Chief Secretary to the Treasury made a statement to the House regarding the Government’s latest offer to unions on the public sector pensions issue. In the statement and in the document he published, he included examples of the pensions that public sector workers would obtain under his proposal. Later that day, the Prime Minister told the House—he has repeated this today—that on that basis, low and middle earners would get more from their pensions. The Cabinet Office subsequently published on its website a pension calculator on which people could check what pension they would receive under the Chief Secretary’s latest announced offer. As was revealed on “Channel 4 News” last night, the calculator demonstrated that the Chief Secretary’s original examples 315 Points of Order23 NOVEMBER 2011 Points of Order 316

[John McDonnell] approach from the Health Secretary to say that he may have misled the House yesterday in Health questions were simply wrong, and that his statement and the when answering a question from me about the risk Prime Minister’s comments were simply incorrect. The register for his NHS reorganisation? He told the House: calculator showed that low and middle earners would “I have been very clear and published all…risk information get less at comparable retirement rates. The calculator relating to the modernisation of the NHS”.—[Official Report, has since been taken down from the website. 22 November 2011; Vol. 536, c. 149.] Three million public sector workers may go on strike He has made the same argument to the Information on 30 November unless the dispute is resolved, so it is Commissioner who, in a legal decision, said that vital that accurate information be provided to the House “he does not accept the argument and considers that disclosure and to the general public. The Chief Secretary has would go somewhat further in helping the public to better understand unwittingly conveyed inaccurate information to the House the risks associated with the modernisation of the NHS than any and, through you, Mr Speaker, I would ask that he be information that has previously been published.” requested to return to the House to correct the error Will you advise the House, Mr Speaker, on how we can and provide an accurate assessment of the Government’s correct the record and get to the truth about the risks pension proposals. that the Government’s policies on NHS reorganisation pose to our NHS? Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, both for his point of order and for providing advance Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman notice of it. All hon. and right hon. Members, including for his point of order, but there is not much that I can Ministers, are responsible for the content and accuracy offer by way of encouragement or comfort. He is an of the statements that they make. If a mistake has been experienced Member of Parliament, and he has put his made, a Minister should correct it. I hope that the hon. interpretation of those matters on the record. I said a Gentleman, who is an exceptionally clever chap, will moment ago that the contents of answers are a matter understand if I am reluctant to trespass beyond that, for Ministers, but answers to parliamentary questions because the detail and minutiae of these matters are are not themselves covered by the statutory provisions probably well beyond my limited competence. of the Freedom of Information Act. If he thinks either that the Minister has erred or that I have erred in my John McDonnell: May I make a further point of exegesis of his point of order—or, indeed, both—no order, Mr Speaker? doubt he will return to these matters and will require no encouragement from me to do so. Mr Speaker: I am in a generous mood, so I shall Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): On a point allow the hon. Gentleman to do so. of order, Mr Speaker. I would be grateful if you could advise me how I can put on the record the fact that John McDonnell: Further to that point of order, following the Deputy Prime Minister’s reply to me on Mr Speaker, I simply want to disagree with you regarding 15 November, recorded at column 679 of Hansard,in the phrase “an exceptionally clever chap”. questions on changes to the law on the succession to the throne, the right hon. Gentleman helpfully wrote to me Mr Speaker: Well, he is certainly a modest fellow, to clarify that he was in fact referring to his conversation although not with much to be modest about. We will with the Scottish First Minister, not the Northern Ireland not discuss that any further, but what I would say is that First Minister. He further advised me—again, very disputes about the impact of the Government’s most helpfully—that he has placed a copy of his letter in the recent offer on pension levels are an appropriate matter Library. I am grateful to his office and to other Ministries for debate, and arguments over calculations and hypothetical for the way in which the matter has been handled. examples are not tantamount to any deliberate misleading of the House. The hon. Gentleman is an experienced—not Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman wanted to put that an old—hand who has put his concerns forcefully on matter on the record, and he has done so with his the record. customary courtesy. If there are no further points of order, we come to the ten-minute rule Bill, which the John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): On a hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) has point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you received an been waiting patiently to introduce. 317 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Members of Parliament (Change of 318 Political Party Affiliation) Members of Parliament (Change of relevant in the 18th century, but that is no longer the Political Party Affiliation) case in the 21st century. We can no longer continue the charade that we are each elected solely as individuals. Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order To do so is simply not to be speaking the same language No. 23) as our constituents. It is an undeniable truth that the vast majority of constituents will vote for the party, 1.34 pm with the Member the embodiment of the party locally. Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): I beg to move, Parties clearly do matter, otherwise there would be no That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide that any need for a Member to change from one party to another. Member of Parliament who changes voluntarily his or her political Such a Member may as well sit as an independent. party affiliation described on the ballot paper at the time he or she Indeed, let those who wish to maintain the illusion, and was elected is deemed to have vacated his or her seat; and for believe that we are elected as sole individuals, stand as connected purposes. individuals, devoid of a party banner. This Bill seeks to ensure that any Member who There are precedents in this House for a political decides to change parties—in other words, crosses the defection to trigger a by-election. Bruce Douglas-Mann Floor or “defects”, should trigger an automatic by-election voluntarily triggered one in 1982, in the Mitcham and so that their constituents can have the final say on their Morden constituency, when he left Labour for the Social decision. I realise that some Members may have hesitations Democratic party. He followed in footsteps of Dick about such a Bill. It would, after all, seek to overturn Taverne, who in 1973 resigned from the Labour party, centuries of tradition that have allowed Members to only to call a by-election and be re-elected under the change parties with little regard for their constituents’ banner of Democratic Labour. By-elections like these opinion on the matter. should be the rule, not the exception. At the same time, the question of Members changing Nor would the Bill be the first to legislate on a parties is not a new one. Former and current Members Member of Parliament’s defection. Defection laws have from all political parties have taken the decision to do been passed in India, providing that someone can be so, including a former Prime Minister. Equally, former disqualified for voluntarily giving up Members from every political party have previously “membership of his original political party”. called for a defecting MP to give their constituents the right to validate their decision. Let me be clear: I do not Of 193 countries worldwide, 41 have laws about crossing take issue with the right of Members to defect from the Floor. Indeed, in Canada, a Bill almost identical to parties. In an established democracy, we must value the my own was debated only this month. freedom of individual Members to cross the Floor if I do not deny that this change in the law would raise they so wish. I can fully accept and understand that other issues that would need to be investigated fully, but Members may, at times, no longer find themselves at I would welcome the scrutiny that the House could one with the party they joined. I ask only that they give provide by debating the merits and demerits of the Bill. their constituents the same choice that they themselves For instance, the reason why I suggest that the Bill have been able to make. should apply only to Members who have voluntarily Nor do I wish to criticise any Member or former changed parties is to ensure that the withdrawal of the Member for the action they have taken, or the judgments Whip would not affect a Member’s ability to remain as they have made according to their own conscience. a representative. It is not the Bill’s intention to strengthen They will have to live with them. However, it is neither the party system, or to strengthen the control of any right nor fair that a constituent should live with that parliamentary party. It is intended only to strengthen decision, often for many years, until a general election is the hand of our constituents. Loyalty to our constituents called. According to the House of Commons Library lies at the forefront of what we all, whichever political there has never been a debate in the House on this issue. party we stand for, wish to achieve as Members of At a time when the public’s faith in our political system Parliament. is at a low ebb, and when trust in politics remains Edmund Burke once stated that he was a Member of broken, I believe that this is precisely the kind of topic Parliament, not the Member for Bristol. As a proud that we should be debating. Bristolian, I am the Member for Kingswood first and a If we asked any man or woman on the street the Member of Parliament second. We have a choice: we solution would be obvious: if an MP is elected for a can stand by the arguments first formulated more than certain party, only to decide to defect to another, it is 200 years ago, noble though they are, or we can choose only right that they should allow their constituents a to face forwards, into the 21st century, and accept that say on their decision. That is the honest thing to do, and we cannot go on as we have done. We must accept that it is the right thing to do. It is easy to state the historical the status quo cannot remain, and that we must seek to arguments against this Bill, mostly stemming from Edmund form a new relationship with our voters, our constituents— Burke’s speech to the electors of Bristol in 1774. Burke the men and women who put us here in the first place. argued that we are sent here as representatives, not The central issue must be one of trust. At a time delegates, and as such sit in the House as individuals, when the public want politicians to be more accountable, not bound by party constraint, but each free to choose if a Member of this House decides to defect, it should how we best represent our constituents, even if that lie with the voters and the constituents whether that seems to be against their best interests. Member should remain a Member of Parliament or The notion that constituents vote for their Members not. We need to look beyond the confines of this of Parliament as individuals to exercise their judgment Chamber, and ask ourselves what is so wrong with a on behalf of their constituents, and not to stand for the Member who defects from one party to another asking party ticket on which they were elected, may have been their constituents’ opinion. What should any defecting 319 Members of Parliament (Change of 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Members of Parliament (Change of 320 Political Party Affiliation) Political Party Affiliation) [Chris Skidmore] mean changing your seat, as one or two Conservatives who switched to Labour did, but we can have a go.” MP be so afraid of? Who are we to turn our backs on Then we come to Burke. Edmund Burke is quoted far our constituents—the voters who placed us here—without too often. He bears the penalty of fighting his great their assent? Without them we are nothing. campaign against Warren Hastings for five years, tying I end by paraphrasing the words of that other Bristol up Westminster Hall and stopping the visitors having a MP, John Locke: “Yourrepresentative owes you, not his good look round. But we forget that having made his industry only, but his honesty, and he betrays, instead of declaration of the duties of a Member of Parliament, at serving you, if he sacrifices that to his ambition.” the next election he lost his seat. Losing the seat at the election is what such a Member should take the chance 1.14 pm of doing. We have had voluntary by-elections. Our right hon. Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): Edwina Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden Currie had the bright idea of having equal numbers of (Mr Davis) caused a by-election to say that he still men and women in the House by pairing constituencies agreed with what he had said at the previous election so and saying that the man who go the most votes and the could he be re-elected, and he was. We had the time woman who got the most votes each became a Member when the Ulster Unionists, who do not seem to be of Parliament. I asked her what would happen if someone present at the moment, had by-elections en masse for went in for gender reassignment between one election some reason that we have now forgotten. We ought to and another, and she thought I was not being sufficiently recognise that although my hon. Friend the Member for serious. Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) is absolutely right—there When I first started taking an interest in politics, I do is no better historian in the House now than he—in not think we had party labels on the ballot paper. I saying that the matter ought to be debated, the idea that think it would not be a bad thing if we removed them it should be the subject of a Bill that should be enacted and showed only candidates’ names and addresses. is controvertible, and I would say that it is wrong. Incidentally, I do not know whether my hon. Friend The House should not be delayed by too many of the would suggest that if I changed my address between one greater arguments on this, except of course if we wanted election and another I should have a by-election, because to return to the glory days. Was there not a time when if that was on the ballot paper as well. someone elected as a Back-Bench Member of Parliament I do not think many of us would get elected without was invited to become a Minister, a by-election had to parties, but the key point is that we have a duty to our be held? It would be a real test of popularity, especially constituents and to our party, and we have international if a reshuffle came, to make it a requirement that any obligations as well. In my view the trust comes from Back Bencher who became a Minister had to fight a what we do, not from whether we decide to change our by-election, and anyone who stood at a general election party. We are at present in coalition with the Liberal as a Minister and succeeded, but then lost their ministerial Democrats. The Liberal Democrats include people who position, should also be required to fight a by-election. were Social Democrats. The Social Democrats, in the If by-elections are a good idea, let us have more of main, unless they were political virgins, came from the them. Labour party, so there has been significant moving Question put and agreed to. around. Ordered, We could approach this matter from the point of view of narrow self-interest. Do we as the Conservatives, That Chris Skidmore, Dr Sarah Wollaston, Mr Robert or we as the coalition with the Liberal Democrats, Buckland, Zac Goldsmith, Mr Aidan Burley, Conor expect to get more people from the Labour party to Burns, Gavin Williamson, Bob Stewart, John Healey, come and join us, or do we expect to lose more people? If Mr Philip Hollobone, Mr Tom Clarke and Steve Brine we expect to gain more people, which is what I hope we present the Bill. are going to do, we should not support the Bill. We Chris Skidmore accordingly presented the Bill. should say, “Come across and perhaps we’ll see if we Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on can look after you at the next election as well. It may Friday 16 March 2012 and to be printed (Bill 252). 321 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 322

of talent. He not only described the figure of 1 million Opposition Day as a distraction, but attempted to blame it on the eurozone crisis. Does he really think that the British [UN-ALLOTTED DAY] people will fall for that? In fairness to the Business Secretary, when the figures Economic Growth and Employment came out his unofficial spokesperson, the noble Lord Oakeshott, told The Guardian: 1.46 pm “It’s ridiculous to blame this rise in unemployment on the crisis in the eurozone. All economists know it’s a lagging indicator, so Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): I beg to move, this is the result of what has been happening in our economy over That this House notes with concern that UK economic growth the past year”. is flatlining and was choked off well before the recent Eurozone I could not put it better myself. Despite that view, the crisis, that youth unemployment is now more than one million Business Secretary remains resolutely wedded to the and that Government borrowing is therefore expected to be £46 billion higher than forecast over the Parliament; further notes Government’s economic strategy, however disastrous it with regret that the Government has failed to deliver a credible is turning out to be. He does so in the name of deficit growth plan, is undermining critical industries in which the UK reduction, yet the independent forecasts published last must compete, is failing to use strategically procurement and week show that the Government are projected to borrow, other tools to drive growth and innovation, and is holding back on average, more in each remaining year of this Parliament regional growth with its flagship projects mired in inertia and than we would have done under our more balanced with most business still waiting for Regional Growth Fund money deficit reduction plan. Those are neither the Opposition’s seven months after the recipients were announced; therefore calls figures, nor those published by the Office for National on the Government to deliver a growth plan that provides an immediate boost to the economy to increase demand and growth, Statistics; the summary of independent forecasts was including a £2 billion tax on bank bonuses to fund 100,000 jobs published last week by the Government themselves. Of for young people and build 25,000 more affordable homes; and course, the Office for Budget Responsibility has already further calls on the Government to bring forward long-term forecast borrowing to be £46 billion higher than previously investment projects to get people back to work, to reverse the thought. The evidence is clear: the Government’s strategy damaging VAT rise of January 2011 for a temporary period is not working because reducing borrowing requires giving families a £450 boost and providing immediate help for the growth, which they choked off by cutting spending and UK’s high streets, to provide a one-year cut in VAT to five per cent. on home improvements, repairs and maintenance to help raising taxes too far and too fast, and long before the home owners and small businesses, and to provide a one-year eurozone crisis. national insurance tax break for small firms to help them grow and create jobs. Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): I welcome the hon. In his Conservative party conference speech last October, Gentleman to his place on the Front Bench, which gives the Chancellor said he would stick to his plan to cut the Opposition the opportunity for a fresh start in faster than any other Chancellor in our history, regardless putting forward their policies. He noted that according of the consequences, because, he said, it was necessary to later assessments the deficit will be higher than to put our economy on a sound footing. With reference originally estimated, but does he accept that the key to the Business Secretary he said: thing the Government got right was to set the tone for “Together, Vince and I have started to open Britain for business.” interest rates so that this country’s businesses can benefit from much lower interest rates than those in other A year later, what do we find? The economy has countries, and would not the policies that his party grown by just 0.5% in the past 12 months. This compares proposes put that at risk? with growth of 1.5% in the US over the same period and is significantly down from the 2.6% growth in the previous Mr Umunna: With the greatest respect to the hon. 12 months, thanks to the measures taken by the Labour Gentleman, the reason the Monetary Policy Committee Government. Have the Chancellor and the Business has set out interest rates so low is that we are struggling Secretary opened Britain for business? The figures tell a to find growth in this country. Without growth, we will different story. The number of UK enterprises fell by be unable to reduce our borrowing. Our not being in the 20,000 in the year to March 2011, with decreases in eurozone is another reason we are able to adopt lower business numbers in every region except London and interest rates. Scotland, and business confidence nose-dived following the announcement of the Chancellor’s spending review. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): I, too, congratulate What effect is this having on the people of this the hon. Gentleman on his much-deserved elevation country? More than 2.6 million people are out of work, and on his speech, which has been very interesting so the highest rate in 17 years. More than 1 million young far. I put it to him that the Opposition’s plan would people are now out of work, the highest since comparable have been to borrow about £100 billion more than the records began in 1992. Let me be clear: these are not Government plan to borrow in the current Parliament, our statistics. They are those of the Office for National which would lead to higher interest rates and push us Statistics. They are the facts. closer to the situation Italy and Greece find themselves How have the Government responded to the facts? in and to what is happening in the eurozone, which Last week, when we learned of the youth unemployment would be irresponsible and reckless. figures, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor were nowhere to be seen. Instead, the Minister with responsibility Mr Umunna: I thank the hon. Gentleman for welcoming for employment took to the airwaves. He told us that me to my post. First, if he looks at page 22 of the the 1 million figure for youth unemployment was “a Government’s summary of independent forecasts, he distraction.”The 1 million figure for youth unemployment will see that they are projected to borrow, on average, is not a distraction. It is a disgrace. What a tragic waste over £100 billion more than the Government thought 323 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 324

[Mr Umunna] to employment law and deregulation? I am surprised that he, as a former employment lawyer, has not included they would. Secondly, when he returns to his constituency in the motion a single proposal to make it easier for he might wish to explain to his constituents, particularly small businesses in Britain to take on staff. the young people—youth unemployment there is up by 155% since January this year—why he cannot get his Mr Umunna: I will move on later in my speech to the Government to change course. Government’s employment proposals, which I might add were announced this morning to a conference Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): I am most rather than to this House. grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who has shown considerable courtesy already in giving way. Does he accept that the markets set long-term interest rates, whatever the MPC Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ does, and that the problems in countries that have let Co-op): When businesses get in touch to tell me about their fiscal position get out of hand with interest rates the problems they are suffering from, none of them tells have been driven not by a choice given by the European me about problems with employment law. They tell me Central Bank, but by the markets setting the prices for about the lack of public procurement and problems their medium and long-term bonds? with VAT and financing from the banks. Those are the concerns that need to be tackled, rather than the side Mr Umunna: The market is not irrational, as the issues that Government Members are pursuing. Government seem to suggest. The suggestion is that if they move their direction and course by even one millimetre, Mr Umunna: I agree with my hon. Friend. We all even if economic circumstances justify such a change, know what is holding back business in taking on workers: they will be hammered by the market, but that is clearly the forecast economic projections for this country. That not the case. I invite the hon. Gentleman to read the is the real problem. What has been the centrepiece of numerous articles and speeches by the former adviser to the Business Secretary’s alternative offer? How will he the Chancellor and the Prime Minister and former chief turn things around? The answer is the regional growth economist of the Cabinet Office, Mr Jonathan Portes, fund. The aim of the fund is to unlock private sector now director of the National Institute of Economic and investment, support areas that are dependent on the Social Research, who makes that very point. public sector and help them become more balanced economies. Good. We take no issue with those objectives. Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): Does my hon. We want that money to get to business and to create the Friend recall, as I do, the Prime Minister telling the jobs that will support growth, yet the scheme has been House in June of last year that employment would rise managed shambolically. It has been an utter fiasco. The in every year of this Parliament, and did he notice in fund is a third of the size of the moneys distributed last week’s unemployment figures that employment fell through the regional development agencies, which have by more than 100,000 in the year after that pledge was been scrapped without effective replacement, so it has made? Is it not absolutely clear that the policy is not been hugely over-subscribed, which demonstrates businesses’ working and must now change? craving for capital. Of the 956 bids received, only 50 were successful in the first round and 119 in the second Mr Umunna: I completely agree with my right hon. round. There have been many more losers than winners. Friend. Of course, another question for the Government It is difficult for the losers, but what of the winners? is why they will not listen to business organisations that Of course, due diligence is needed to ensure the have been calling for action. The CBI is calling for proper use of public funds. The permanent secretary at infrastructure spending to be brought forward, the the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills told Federation of Small Businesses is calling for a one-year the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee that due national insurance break for every small firm taking on diligence on successful bids tends to take between two extra workers, and the Federation of Master Builders and six weeks, and that until it is complete the successful would like a targeted cut in VAT to 5% for home bidder is not given its money. Yet, clearly, very few improvements, maintenance and repairs. Business successful bidders have received what was promised, organisations, from those representing the food and because it has taken so long for due diligence to be beverage sectors to those representing businesses on our completed. high streets, which are suffering, are calling for a reversal of this year’s hike in VAT. What do all those measures I have written to the Secretary of State and tabled have in common? They are all part of Labour’s plan for parliamentary questions, and in fact the Minister of growth and jobs. As our motion stated, the Government State, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford, must take action now to increase demand and growth who has continually chuntered from a sedentary position and give immediate help to the high street—[Interruption.] today, provided the answers. I tabled those questions to The Minister of State, the hon. Member for Hertford get the answers, to get the facts and to get to the bottom and Stortford (Mr Prisk), chunters from a sedentary of the delays and mess. position. If he wishes to ignore all the various business On Monday I received answers to those parliamentary organisations, people might put a big question mark questions, indicating that 30 weeks—30 weeks—after over his judgment. It is clear that the Government need the original announcement just nine of the 50 first-round to back our plan and that they must do so now. winners have completed due diligence. When I asked why due diligence has taken so long, I was told: Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Does the “It is for successful bidders to initiate due diligence upon hon. Gentleman not agree that the Government have receipt of a conditional offer letter from the Department.”—[Official been listening to businesses organisations with regard Report, 21 November 2011; Vol. 536, c. 154W.] 325 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 326

Usually, the Government blame us for all the mistakes; What about the other bidders that provide the onward now, it seems that they are seeking to pass on blame to distribution of funds, and the businesses that could the very businesses that they claim to want to help—and support jobs and growth? As I have said, the situation is the bidder has to pay for the due diligence cost, too. a fiasco. It is no way to run a Department, and it is no As it happens, I met—[Interruption.] Ministers shake way to treat our businesses or grow our economy. The their heads— Secretary of State and his Department are not doing enough to get our economy growing; what little they are Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): Will the doing, they are doing badly. hon. Gentleman give way? Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point about ERDF Mr Umunna: I will in a moment. delays, one of which I have drawn to the attention of Last week I met one of the first-round bidders, who Ministers myself, but, having spent 10 years a councillor told me that on learning of their successful bid in April in the city of Hull dealing with organisations such as they immediately sought to progress due diligence but, Yorkshire Forward, I must say that the nirvana picture despite chasing the Secretary of State’s Department, of the RDAs that he tries to paint is certainly not my received no further documentation for four months. experience. The points he makes now are exactly the When they got it, they immediately responded but, same points that we could have made about Yorkshire again, heard nothing for another three months—until Forward and its processes for the past 10 years. The around the time that my right hon. Friend the Leader of problem is the systems, not, as he outlines, how we the Opposition raised the issue of the regional growth structure them. fund at Prime Minister’s questions. I am sure that the timing was totally coincidental. Mr Umunna: With the greatest respect to the hon. Even now, formal due diligence is not complete, and Gentleman, the question is whether the Department is the matter is due to go to the permanent secretary’s doing what it promised to do for those businesses, committee for approval on 2 December. which is to give them money and to carry out due diligence in a quick and timely way. It has failed to do Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): so. I do not claim that there was a nirvana in relation to On that important point, the Institute of Chartered RDAs, but we are talking about the regional growth Accountants believes that one reason for the length of fund, and we actually want it to succeed. time taken on due diligence is the disappearance of the The Government’s latest attempt to grow the economy RDAs’ expertise in following up the process, and the consists of making it easier to fire, not hire, people. efficiency savings within the Department, meaning that Today, to great fanfare, the Secretary of State said that the skills base there has evaporated, too. Is that not the the service required to claim for unfair dismissal should case? be increased from one to two years. He said this morning that Mr Umunna: It is clearly the case, as we saw from the “this will mean that business can once again have the confidence evidence of the Department’s permanent secretary to to hire the staff they need to grow and thrive.” the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee a couple That is a retrograde step for a Government who think of weeks ago. that watering down employees’ rights is a substitute for a proper growth plan. Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab): I reiterate the point about the expertise that has Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Even at the been lost due to the abolition of the RDAs, but also the height of the Thatcher years, there was no attempt to European regional development fund is another vital target individual workers—their unions, yes, because source of money for businesses. Millions of pounds, industrial tribunals were a Conservative Government particularly in the north-east, remain unspent, and only invention, but the measure under discussion is utterly one fund, from the regional growth fund in Manchester, shameless. The efficient European economies are has been used as match funding for ERD funding. That partnership economies, but targeting weaker workers is a huge waste of important business support that and, particularly, women workers is to the utter and could be going to people throughout the country. contemptible shame, above all, of a Liberal Democrat Business Secretary. Mr Umunna: Perhaps the Secretary of State will address that comment in his response. Mr Umunna: I am glad that my right hon. Friend Almost one year after the regional growth fund was brings up the Thatcher era, because a well known noble announced, and six months after due diligence should Lord was asked on Sunday whether such initiatives, have been completed, the winning bidder to which I which seek to make it easier to fire as opposed to hire have referred has still not received any money from the people, act as a stimulus to job creation. He told the regional growth fund. It is clear to me, in that case, BBC what he thought of that, saying: where the blame lies for the delay: it is not with the “I’ve been responsible for one of those deregulation initiatives successful bidder. That organisation provides onward for many years and I would be quite frank in telling you that I distribution of fund awards to businesses that desperately don’t think we achieved much.” need it. As a result of the chaos, confusion and delay, He went on to say that the bidder in that case tells me that between 3,000 and “you want to be very careful in political terms that you don’t get 4,000 businesses are being deprived of the moneys they the reputation that all you’re trying to do is make life rougher and need, putting an estimated 11,800 jobs at risk. tougher for large numbers of people.” 327 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 328

[Mr Umunna] banks lending to small and medium-sized businesses that are, by his and the Chancellor’s own admission, Those are the words of the noble Lord Heseltine, and, if currently being starved of credit. We know that the a Conservative-led Government are unable to persuade Project Merlin accord between the banks and the him to buy into the concept, why should the rest of us Government failed. The Secretary of State more or less do so? admitted as much when he said: “Merlin was necessary but it was never going to be sufficient. I Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): My hon. Friend don’t think any of us pretended it was enough.” makes an excellent point about what Lord Heseltine said, and the evidence is that, when we create uncertainty We know that the figures published under Merlin are for workers by attacking their rights, we find that their entirely misleading, because under the agreement between behaviour changes in relation to the economy. They the banks and the Government a gross lending measure stop spending money in the economy, and that undermines was adopted, not the more meaningful net figure used the opportunity for growth and the support for businesses, by the Bank of England. The truth is that Project so any Government Member who thinks that cutting Merlin was really no more than a public relations workers’ rights is a way to grow the economy is sadly gimmick designed to get the Government out of a hole mistaken. when banks’ declarations of bonuses were in full flow earlier this year. Mr Umunna: My hon. Friend is right, and when the For real businesses, the failure is real. The Bank of Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development looked England’s “Trends in Lending”publication for last month at the economic effects of the proposal to increase the showed the stock of lending to UK businesses contracting service requirement from one to two years, the chief overall in the three months to August. The Bank’s latest economist, Dr John Philpott, said that agents’ summary, for this month, stated that small “any positive effect on hiring is likely to be offset by a corresponding businesses were still reporting that credit conditions increase in the rate of dismissals. Increasing the qualifying period “remained tight, and in some cases had become tighter.” for obtaining unfair dismissal rights thus runs the risk of reinforcing a hire and fire culture in UK workplaces. Although the policy That is supported by the figures released this morning change will undoubtedly be welcomed by the de-regulation lobby, by the British Bankers Association, showing lending by it isn’t the way to boost growth and jobs.” the high street banking groups to non-financial businesses contracting this month. Nadhim Zahawi: The hon. Gentleman is now quoting selectively. Will he tell us what the Federation of Small To resolve that problem, the Government first need Businesses, which he quoted earlier, or the chambers of to change their overall economic strategy, to give businesses commerce think of that policy? the confidence to borrow and grow. The small and medium-sized enterprise finance monitor published last Mr Umunna: First, I am not quoting selectively. If the week showed that the main barrier to future borrowing hon. Gentleman would like to go and inspect the CIPD by SMEs was the economic climate, but that the other press release, he will see that what I have said is the case. major barrier was the lending practices of the banks. The Government need to use their influence with the Nadhim Zahawi: What did the FSB say? banks, particularly through United Kingdom Financial Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. The Investments in the case of the banks in which the state hon. Gentleman has had his intervention, and he should has a stake, to insist that they get money out of the door please wait for the answer. We do not need comments to responsible businesses that have sound business models from the side. but are struggling to access finance. In addition, they must urge those banks to adopt a better lending culture—for Mr Umunna: There we have a Government Member example, by ensuring that they have local relationship hungry to fire, as opposed to hire, workers. managers on the ground who get to know the business concerned. Nadhim Zahawi: Withdraw. Charlie Elphicke: I am sure the whole House has Mr Umunna: I withdraw that comment. considerable sympathy with the hon. Gentleman’s position. The hon. Gentleman asked whether business Unfortunately, the Government’s hands are somewhat organisations were in favour of increasing the unfair tied, because UKFI was set up on the basis that it was dismissal service requirement from one to two years. at arm’s length. When the original deal was done with That policy may sound good on the face of it, but what the banks, the then Government did not force any will happen—I say this as a former employment lawyer—is lending targets on them. This Government have been that we will simply end up with more employees making trying their best to undo that damage through Merlin spurious discrimination claims, because there is no service and other measures, but the previous Government should requirement for them. When we put that to businesses, have got it right in the first place and have made it they take quite a different point of view of the policy. harder now. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con) rose— Mr Umunna: When will Government Members take Julian Smith: rose— responsibility? I wish that we were still in government, but we have not been for 18 months now. It is about Mr Umunna: I have given way several times, and I time that they got used to the fact that they are in want to make a bit of progress. government and took responsibility. Instead of reverting to the tired old mantras and Business is crying out not for a Government who step doing over the people who work in this country, perhaps aside and fail or refuse to act but for one who adopt an the Secretary of State could tell us what he will do to get active approach, using all the tools at their disposal to 329 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 330 create the conditions for private sector growth. For all 2.18 pm their claims about our record, such as the ones that we The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and have just heard, the Government have kept in place Skills (Vince Cable): I should like to respond to the some of the support measures for business that we left motion, which actually bears only a passing resemblance them on leaving office. I should point out that under to the speech made by the hon. Member for Streatham Labour, 1.1 million businesses were created. When we (Mr Umunna). I will start with issues of fact that I hope left office, the UK was rated fourth by the World Bank we can agree on. for the ease of doing business, and first in Europe. Under this Government, the UK has dropped to seventh The motion makes perfectly legitimate points in the global rankings. We will take no lectures from the about the state of the economy. It is certainly true that Government on support for business. there is slow growth across Europe and in the UK. We In government, we set up the Better Regulation Executive fully understand that. We have not had the double-dip and the Regulatory Policy Committee to improve the recession that has been predicted since the very first day quality, and where appropriate reduce the quantity, of of this Government, but yes, we do have slow growth. regulation on business. I note that the Government have We accept that we have a worrying level of youth continued with them. unemployment, although the largest component of that, the NEETs—those who are not in education, employment Julian Smith: Will the hon. Gentleman clarify the top or training—were actually at their peak level before the five deregulatory measures that his party took in the 13 financial crisis occurred. It is correct to say, as the years it was in government? motion does, that we have a high, and we would argue excessive, level of borrowing. That makes it all the more Mr Umunna: I cannot name the top five, but the perverse that the single policy that the hon. Gentleman whole reason the Better Regulation Executive and the is offering to us is to increase that level of borrowing, Regulatory Policy Committee were set up was to reduce which he considers so toxic. regulations by a huge number and improve their quality. In government, we also conceived the technology and Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): The Prime innovation centres, to promote innovation. The Government Minister’s constituency has 1.8% unemployment and are now rolling them out across the country, and they mine has 7.9%, yet the Secretary of State’s Government have sought to build on the measures that we put in have chosen to leave a full employment service in Witney place to reduce the bureaucracy of Government and to close down the jobcentre in Deptford. Does he procurement and increase SMEs’ access to it. agree, and will he support me, in asking his colleague to In many other areas, however, there has been a disorderly return an employment service to Deptford to help the retreat from an active approach. The Government have 1,000 young people who are out of work now? undermined certainty for investment, cut the science and research funding budget by 15% in real terms and Vince Cable: Obviously, I do not know the particular abandoned the 10-year funding plan, and they have position in Deptford, but I am very happy to take up abandoned sector strategies such as the defence industrial the specifics if that helps. strategy. The Automotive Council continues, but the The particular question that the hon. Gentleman RDAs, which could have helped make a reality of the started with was fair: why did the economic slow-down ambition to strengthen companies’ supply chains, no occur? He quoted my colleague in the upper House and longer exist. others of varying views about why we have lower growth The Government have undermined new industries, than was predicted by independent forecasters 18 months such as green industries, as my right hon. Friend the ago. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) will outline in the debate that will follow this one. They have delayed Bill Esterson: Will the Secretary of State give way? the roll-out of universal broadband and undermined the collaborative institutions that we set up to work Vince Cable: Let me try to deal with this issue. We with businesses, such as the Office for Life Sciences and would all probably accept—I hope that the hon. Member the Technology Strategy Board, which are widely respected. for Streatham would accept—that the Governor of the The higher education sector, the seventh-largest export Bank of England is an independent, non-partisan, non- industry, has been put in disarray by the Government’s political analyst of what has occurred. Let me read to visa changes. Support for the digital, creative and him the Governor’s account given a week ago on why educational sectors has been scaled back. Then there is the slow-down in growth has occurred. He said: the decision to award the £1.5 billion contract for new “This reflects the impact on the United Kingdom of the Thameslink trains to a manufacturer that will make deterioration in prospects internationally, working through weaker them in Germany, which means that Bombardier is net trade, higher credit spreads and the likelihood” reviewing its activities in Britain. of elevated uncertainty. He goes on to describe the The Government have retreated from action, undermined impact of world energy and commodity prices, and the confidence, failed to unlock investment, failed to deliver 35% increase in the sterling price of oil, none of which a credible plan for growth and failed to use action to was mentioned in the hon. Gentleman’s speech. back business. They need to back our five-point plan for growth now and put in place a credible plan to build Bill Esterson: Will the Secretary of State give way? for our long-term success. These are difficult and challenging times for businesses and people in this country. They Vince Cable: Let me just finish this argument. Some deserve better from a Government who say, “We are all of us have argued for a long time that the underlying in it together”, but who, time and again, show that they problem is that, since the beginning of the crisis, the have absolutely no understanding of the concept. British economy has suffered—I use my own metaphor— 331 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 332

[Vince Cable] Bank of England acting on short-term interest rates, through long-term interest rates related to bond yields, the economic equivalent of a heart attack. There is a through quantitative easing at the Bank of England—now profound problem, and what lies behind it is the fact credit easing—and through a competitive exchange rate, that, more than any other developed country, we have we have a monetary policy that supports growth and quite extraordinary levels of debt. demand. Given the massive debt we have inherited, it is There are different kinds of debt. Household debt is only through monetary policy—relatively low interest 160% of gross domestic product and, after the boom rates—that we can possibly support the economy. that took place under the previous Government, it is higher than in other developed countries. Banks’ balance Mr Umunna: On that point, the Business Secretary sheets are more than 400% of GDP, after they were talks about monetary policy as if it is somehow a good allowed to run out of control. Government debt is thing that we are having to resort to quantitative easing. 180% and rising as a result of the deficit financing we Does he agree that quantitative easing is a last resort of had to undertake. If we put those things together, as a desperate Government? McKinsey has done, they show that the position we Vince Cable: It is certainly a last resort in a major inherited is one where total debt in the UK is approaching economic crisis. I am sure he appreciates that we are 500% of our GDP. The only other country with a living through an economic crisis that is unparalleled in problem of that scale is Japan. That is the inheritance our lifetimes. That is why not only Britain, but the we are now seeking to manage. United States and other countries are having to resort to unorthodox monetary policy. That is a reflection of Mr Umunna: First, on borrowing, does the Business the desperation of many western countries. Our Bank Secretary accept that the average of the independent of England has been comfortable with our fiscal policy forecast that his Government published last week shows and, to that extent, has been willing to support it that, for all his claims to be working to a strategy to through monetary means. reduce our debts, his Government could end up borrowing more in every single year remaining of this Parliament Those are two of the three elements of the strategy. than under Labour’s more sensible deficit reduction The third is rebalancing the economy. We inherited an plan? Secondly, does he accept that confidence indicators economy that was horribly unbalanced in favour of when he took office and took charge of his Department debt-supported consumption and banking, and we are were not too bad and were improving until the now rebalancing the economy towards exports and comprehensive spending review was announced, after trade. Rapid growth is taking place at the moment in which it nosedived? British exports. That is the strategy on which we will proceed and on which we will be judged. The alternative Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We we have been offered is something called plan B, which I must have shorter interventions. think has been renamed the “Antiques Roadshow” in respect of the shadow Chancellor. No serious business Vince Cable: On the level of borrowing, let us wait organisation is arguing that such financial irresponsibility until next week and see what the independent forecast is has any prospect of success. in the Chancellor’s statement. Of course, the reason why borrowing rises when the economy slows down is Nadhim Zahawi: In the document that I have in my because of the flexibility that is built in—the so-called hand the shadow Business Secretary says, regarding the counter-cyclical stabilisers that we employ as part of new economy, that we need to build an economy that is our fiscal policy. Unlike the United States and other “less vulnerable to global shocks”. countries, we allow slow-downs to be accommodated in How does the Secretary of State think that building an that way, supporting the economy. economy based on £100 billion of extra borrowing by The hon. Gentleman asked me what our strategy is to 2015 will deliver that? deal with this problem. I will summarise it. There are three parts. First, we have to stick to fiscal discipline to Vince Cable: I can give a bit of substance in answer to maintain the confidence of the people who lend to us. that. The National Institute of Economic and Social That is a very simple proposition that is very difficult to Research, which has been critical of the Government in realise and it is something we have done. He quoted some respects, has done its own simulation. On the use various comments from business organisations around of fiscal policy to support growth, which I think is what the country. I keep in touch with such organisations the Opposition plan B is all about, it says that in order regularly and go around the country to the regions and to stimulate growth from 1% to 2% we would need to nations of the UK. I have yet to meet a single representative have a Government borrowing account of about 12% of of the business community who has asked us to slacken GDP.Is that actually what the Opposition are proposing our process of deficit reduction—not a single one. They because that is what their plan B—fiscal stimulus—means? all make it absolutely clear, including the CBI, that they Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): The Secretary regard plan A, as it is called, which is deficit reduction, of State is very good at talking about the support he as an absolutely necessary pre-condition to stabilising gets for deficit reduction. When he is travelling around the economy. the UK, do people support his growth policies, because The second element relates to the first. Precisely I have not met a business man who does? because we have a large amount of debt in our economy, the priority for Government has to be to preserve an Vince Cable: I tried to explain to that wherever I go, environment in which there are low interest rates. The not just in the business community, there is an stimulus we get in our economy—the source of demand— understanding that, given our inheritance, we have to comes primarily through monetary policy. Through the pursue fiscal discipline. It is as simple as that. We will 333 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 334 support that with economic growth measures that I will departmental report a couple of weeks ago—namely, develop, responding to the comments of the hon. Member exactly how many jobs have been created by the regional for Streatham, in a moment. growth fund so far?

Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The Vince Cable: No, I cannot do that, because the projects Secretary of State knows that some of us, even on the are under construction. When they are fully completed Labour Benches, have always admired his grasp of and fully staffed and their supply chains are established, economics, and his analysis is impressive. I also know it will be possible to come up with a meaningful number. that he gets around the country; he has recently been to The third area of criticism and questioning of the my constituency. However, what people are telling me hon. Member for Streatham related to the banks. The when I go around the country is that they understand motion recycles the idea of a bank bonus tax, so let us the analysis but want to know where is the imagination go over what that involves. The current estimate from that is needed when a Government see 1 million young the CBI, which has carried out research on this in the people unemployed. Where is the charismatic leadership? City, suggests that the yield from bonuses this year—the Where is the air that something is really being done bonus pool—is likely to be something in the order of fundamentally to help these young people? £4.2 billion. Of that £4.2 billion, £2.5 billion goes to Vince Cable: I will describe in more detail, as will the Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in tax because of Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong high tax rates on bonuses, and rightly so. That leaves Learning, some of the initiatives that we are taking on £1.7 billion in bonuses paid out, assuming that the apprenticeships, for example, which reflect real imagination projection is correct. The Opposition are suggesting and real change. that they will have a £2 billion tax on bank bonuses. Let me try to respond to some of the points that the Where is this £2 billion going to come from? It is hon. Member for Streatham made. First, he wholly considerably more than the total bonuses paid out. misunderstands what is happening with the regional Even if they applied 100% tax, which is implausible, growth fund. More than half the projects are under way what would happen, obviously, is that pay would be in the first wave of the regional growth fund. The consolidated. They have not thought this through. Perhaps factories have been built and the jobs are being created. that is why the hon. Gentleman did not bother to raise Because of due diligence, the disbursement—I have had it. Can he can tell us how it will work? this confirmed—is still taking an average of three to six Mr Umunna: I am happy to do so. I am slightly weeks. I am happy to pursue the individual cases that bemused that the Secretary of State should quote those the hon. Gentleman raised. As I understand it—I may figures from the CBI. It represents all the banks, so be wrong—the case that he dwelt on at some length is would he expect it to say anything different? Of course, the result of the applicant having radically changed the the bonus round has not yet been completed, so we have status of their application, and we will happily look at absolutely no idea what the final figure will be. that. However, I am not going to take lectures on the disbursement of Government money. I do not know Vince Cable: I see that the hon. Gentleman is playing whether he is aware of this, but the previous Government for time. set up a £5 billion trade credit insurance scheme which, after two years, has managed to disburse £81,000. The Apart from this slightly mysterious bank bonus tax, regional growth fund is proceeding as predicted and what is extraordinary is that we are being lectured on suggested by Lord Heseltine and his team. We are the banking system by a party which in government following those processes. The factories are being built allowed the banking system to run completely out of and the jobs are being created, and that is what matters. control. There was no regulation on cash bonuses. Despite the fact that the banks had an implicit Government The hon. Gentleman challenged me on procurement. guarantee, they were not required to pay any tax for it. I have been to Derby and talked to the people involved. We have introduced the banking levy. Labour allowed Obviously, we are very concerned about what has happened tax avoidance on an industrial scale and did absolutely in that case. The problem with procurement is that for a nothing about it, yet the hon. Gentleman now presumes decade or more the public procurement policies pursued to lecture me on banking. I really do think that Labour in this country were unbelievably short-sighted and Members need to reflect a little on what happened in legalistic. In the case of the Thameslink contract, we the banking system. inherited a contract procedure based principles that did not allow for the wider effects on the British economy. Finally, the hon. Gentleman made various references However, that particular decision has been made. I have to spending commitments—or our damaging spending made it absolutely clear, and my right hon. Friend the cuts, as he saw them—and tax cuts. This is the time of Minister for the Cabinet Office made it clear two days year when my grandchildren write letters to the north ago, that we are going to approach public procurement pole addressed to Santa Claus. I have to say that compared in a different way. We are going to do it strategically and with what we are hearing, those letters from my five-year-old take account of supply chains. Of course we will operate grandson are a model of financial discipline and economic within the law and will not be protectionist, but a lot literacy. The hon. Gentleman’s predecessor was very can be done through public procurement that we are eloquent in criticising the cuts to the university teaching now going to pursue. My only question is why on earth grant. The hon. Gentleman has adopted other targets—for Labour Members did not do this when they were in example, he has criticised the cuts in the regional office if they care so much about it. development agencies. He has also criticised cuts in the science budget. Last week, he made a very eloquent Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): statement on this, despite the fact that the scientific Is the Secretary of State now in a position to give me an establishment had been very complimentary about the answer that he could not give when I questioned his fact that we had protected the cash budget for science. 335 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 336

[Vince Cable] Julian Smith: Will the Secretary of State tell us what situation he found exports in when he arrived in his When I came into my current job, the one thing I post? What sort of condition was UK Trade & Investment knew was that my Labour predecessors were planning in and what great suggestions did the previous Government to cut the Department’s budget by 25%, and that is have in this area? what we have done, because that was the economic reality. I am therefore left with a question to which I Vince Cable: UKTI has been radically reformed, have been trying to get an answer. Perhaps the hon. thanks to the Minister for Trade and Investment, Lord Gentleman can be more forthcoming and economically Green. I think that it will perform an excellent function. rounded than his predecessor in telling me how the What I found was that British export activity in the big Opposition are going to achieve their plans. Where is emerging markets, which is clearly where future growth the money going to come from? We have a whole lot of lies, had been sorely neglected for many years. As somebody spending commitments in every area of our Department, put it to me, when we turned up on the beach the but not a single suggestion about where those heroic Germans were already in the deckchairs. They have cuts are going to come from. Of course we would like to dominated the market in these countries and we are a spend more money on science and other things, and of marginal player. It will take years to turn that around, course some of the tax cut proposals are very attractive, but that is where our emphasis lies. such as the VAT rate on building repairs, which would cost £1 billion, but where does the money come from? Nadhim Zahawi: Does the Secretary of State agree This gets to the heart of the problem, which is that the that under the previous Government we exported more Labour Opposition’s proposal is financially irresponsible. to Ireland than we did to Brazil, Russia, India and It deals with the problem of Government borrowing by China put together? adding to it and deals with the problem of Government debt by adding to it. Vince Cable: I thank the hon. Gentleman for reminding me of one of my best lines. It is partly a compliment to Mr Umunna: The various commitments that we have Ireland that we trade with it so extensively, but that fact made are all costed and fund themselves. The Business is an appalling commentary on our neglect of the big Secretary has said a lot about banking. If he is so emerging markets. fiscally responsible, will he join us in committing to use Export growth is one key focus for us. The second is all the proceeds from the sales of the public stakes in the people and apprenticeships. The Minister for Further banks towards reducing the deficit? Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning will say more Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman’s numbers may about this in his summary. Despite a severely curtailed have been costed but they do not add up—that is the budget, we have increased apprenticeships—actual people problem. As for the banks, it will be quite some years doing training—by 50% over the past year. There are before the sales take place. The Northern Rock sale has now 350,000 people in such training. We do not accept gone ahead—that is a small bank—but for the major that that is the end of the road. We have to improve the banks, it is likely to be some years ahead. We do not quality and refocus as much as possible on younger know whether it will be in this Parliament or the next; apprentices, thereby addressing in part the problem of we have no idea what the economic conditions will be. It youth unemployment. This is a major success story and would be ludicrous for me to hypothecate about revenue we are proud of it. receipts at this stage. On access to finance, one of the major themes of my I will move on to my final passage, because I would analysis has been that what we are dealing with is a like colleagues to have an opportunity to speak. I will collapsed and non-functioning banking system. It is summarise some of the positive things that we are right for Members to continue to cross-question us on doing, albeit within a very constrained budget, to support the Merlin agreement, because that is at the heart of the growth. Of course, fiscal discipline and monetary policy problem. We have stopped, at least in relation to small have to be supported by interventions. The hon. Gentleman and medium-sized enterprises, a process of rapid is absolutely right that there is a role for state intervention. deleveraging. We are using Government funding through I am not in favour of laissez-faire. There are things that the regional growth fund and, from next year, the Green we can do. investment bank to co-finance private capital so that Our concentration is on export growth. There has there is access to finance for British industry. We are been 13% export growth over the past year. We are taking initiatives to support equity finance. The business outward looking. The motion does not even mention growth fund is not Government owned or controlled, trade. It is unbelievably parochial. I spend a lot of my but it is a major initiative that should have been taken time in emerging markets with British exporters—I decades ago to get equity finance functioning. Access to have been to all of them—to support export growth. I finance is a critical issue—of course we accept that. It is do not claim personal credit for the growth, but we have a consequence of the banking crisis that we are focused acted as a catalyst for export growth in Brazil, Russia, on it. India and China—the BRIC countries—of 26%, in I want to give one final concluding thought. When I India of 34% and in Turkey of 30%. I keep in touch hear the Opposition speaking about the economy, I with our exporters by working with them and alongside think that lying at the back of their world view is the them to deal with overseas Governments. That is where idea that what we are currently in the middle of is a the recovery is going to take place. It is on the back of cyclical problem—we had a boom, we had a bust, we those exports that we are getting rapid growth in will press a few buttons, spend a bit more money, and manufacturing in certain sectors such as the automobile we will get back into a boom again. This is not a cyclical sector, which has attracted big inward investment from problem; it is a profound, long-standing structural problem. Jaguar Land Rover and others. We had the wrong model. Growth was based on 337 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 338 fundamentally the wrong principles, it was not sustainable to get the industry working again would regenerate our and it collapsed. We are now having to repair the infrastructure, allow future growth and give skills to damage. individuals.

Several hon. Members rose— Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab): I wonder whether my hon. Friend wants to Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I comment on the call of the International Monetary remind everybody that there is a five-minute limit on Fund for a global growth compact, which supports speeches. exactly the initiative that he is suggesting. It says that there must be infrastructure development in the west—not 2.44 pm just this country but the whole world—to recover from this economic downturn. Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): I will bear in mind your comments, Mr Deputy Speaker. The problem in a debate like this is where to start. I Gordon Banks: I agree with my hon. Friend. If we do will start with what I want to see, which is business not get our infrastructure right, we will not be in the growth. Business growth delivers job creation, which in position that we want to be in when things move forward turn delivers tax revenues and growth for individuals, and we will be disadvantaged. I ask the Government the importance of which we should not underestimate not to look solely at big individual projects when they at any cost. The fundamental question that we are are trying to regenerate the economy. We need local and discussing is whether Opposition and Government regional regeneration and investment in local and regional Members believe that the Government can be a driver infrastructure. for growth. I and a number of my colleagues believe that they can be. Julian Smith: Does the hon. Gentleman welcome the Why is this debate so important? It is important to Government’s introduction of the Work programme, my constituents because people in my constituency are which will help many of those JSA applicants of whom losing jobs, and businesses in my constituency are going he spoke, and the new enterprise allowance, which gives bust. The industry that I have been involved in since I significant sums of money to unemployed people who was 18 years of age has been decimated by the Government. want to set up a business? In Ochil and South Perthshire, 5.6 jobseeker’s allowance claimants are going after each job. I realise that that is Gordon Banks: My experience of the Work programme by no means the highest rate in the UK. The number of is that it is a not-working programme. JSA claimants in Ochil and South Perthshire has risen by 95% since 2006. The overall number of people in The cut in VAT to 5% for home improvement repairs employment is falling. In the last year, 93% of constituencies and maintenance—another part of Labour’s five-point saw a rise in their claimant count. That has been caused plan—would discourage the black market and encourage by the speed and depth of the cuts, and by the private investment in our housing stock at a time when the sector not being able to keep up with them, just as the Government are wringing their hands about the green Opposition said would happen. deal. Experian data show that a cut from 17.5% to 5% would have produced a £1.4 billion stimulus to the UK That is why we want the Government to do more to economy in 2010, which would have got Britain building. help UK businesses. Helping business helps employment. It is working on reviewing that figure in the light of the The Government have cut capital budgets by 11%. current 20% VAT rate. Because their deficit reduction plan is failing, they will have to borrow more to pay for unemployment and to On housing, which is an important part of the cover falling tax revenues. That is the backdrop that has construction industry, social rent starts and affordable led to this debate. The Government should listen hard home starts have fallen by 99%, but in 2007, there were to what is said by my colleagues on the Labour Benches. 357,000 first-time home buyers in the UK, who generated £2.1 billion in our high streets. That is the real power of As I said, I have been in the construction industry all the construction industry and why the industry is so my life. I remain involved in that business today. In the important to the whole of the UK. I hope the Government time that I have left, I will talk about what the Government plans announced earlier this week to regenerate the can do and should be doing to help the construction housing market deliver progress, but one must ask: why industry. It is my view that the construction industry have they been asleep at the wheel for the past 18 months? gives a measure of the economy as a whole. It is of the private sector, but it needs the public sector and the On lending, we are a country of small businesses, yet private sector to survive. If businesses want to expand, the Federation of Small Businesses tells us that credit they need the construction industry to do so if they lines for financially sound businesses have been tightened need premises, transport networks or communication and interest rates have increased. The Federation of infrastructure. If the construction industry is on its Master Builders has reinforced the point about that knees, the country is on its knees. The Government failure. need to grasp the fact that every pound spent in the The Government have announced a desire to look at construction industry generates £2.83 in the wider economy. credit easing, which suggests that Project Merlin has That point is not disputed. failed. Do they know how much of Project Merlin’s The Opposition’s five-point plan would benefit the compliance agreements are re-signed and recycled construction industry from point one through to point arrangements? Do they know that banks are withdrawing five. I will focus on one or two of the points in the short overdraft facilities and setting businesses up with term time that I have left. Bringing forward investment projects loans? 339 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 340

Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): in his Department? It is seems as if the Secretary of The hon. Gentleman echoes the shadow Secretary of State and the Department are like Dr Cable and Mr Hyde. State in criticising the Government for undertaking The Secretary of State embraces the idea of business quantitative easing. In truth, this Government and the and likes the free-market approach, but the other personality previous one undertook quantitative easing, but there is likes to hang out with a bunch of people on a camping a huge difference between them. This Government are holiday outside a well-known church musing on the using QE to buy bank debt to put liquidity into the merits of capitalism. banks, which is much needed by business, whereas the previous one used QE to buy Government debt, because at the time, the rest of the world had lost confidence in Julian Smith: Just to correct my hon. Friend slightly, buying it. this Government have done more than the previous Government did in 13 years on deregulation and freeing Gordon Banks: I never mentioned quantitative easing—I up British business. We must not lose sight of that. was talking about term loans. Term loans are being offered to businesses because they are better for the Richard Fuller: That is absolutely true, but the challenge lender, not the borrower, and because they deliver a that we face is more immense because of 13 years of skewed figure into the Merlin arrangements. That cannot over-regulation by the previous Government, and because be acceptable. Business should not be run on term of the challenge of the international community. From loans. the Secretary of State’s announcements today, I know that the sunshine side of his personality is more to the 2.52 pm fore, and that he will demonstrate a strong and full commitment to the hard work that entrepreneurs and Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): As this is a business business leaders are putting in around the country. debate, I draw Members’ attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I encourage the Secretary of State to take action on I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Streatham three further areas. First, I encourage him to work more (Mr Umunna) on introducing this debate and on the strongly with the Treasury on ideas for credit that work thoughtful way in which he presented his case. As I said for all sizes of businesses. Although there is a lot of in an intervention, he offers an opportunity for a fresh emphasis on trying to make the banks a useful conduit approach. What a contrast this debate is to the one on of finance to small businesses, that is not working for the economy called by his colleague the shadow Chancellor very small businesses. Please can we look at alternative a couple of weeks ago, which turned into an episode of measures? Can we look again at tax relief for debt “Romper Room”—some hon. Members are old enough financing for our micro-businesses? For the first time, to remember that—with childish comments being made can we consider peer-to-peer lending organisations such left, right and centre. The hon. Member for Streatham as Funding Circle, which provides an alternative way of presented a much more cogent case today, but that is raising funds for small businesses? It is not enough to the root of his problem. He is the fresh new hope, but come forward with another policy that relies on the unfortunately he is held back by sad and discredited banks doing something tomorrow that they are not ideas, the core policy of which, as the Prime Minister doing today. has said, has been reheated and resold at least eight Secondly, I encourage the Secretary of State to look times already. at the sector that is the biggest drag on our economy, I encourage the hon. Member for Streatham to be a namely the bureaucratic state. If we want to create a little bolder in setting out his ideas. I know that he growing economy, we cannot ignore such a substantial agrees—his speech lasted 31 minutes, but only in the part of it. I encourage him to ask other Ministers to 30th did he get round to talking about Labour’s so-called enlist our public servants and bureaucrats in the task of five-point plan. I ask him to spend more time developing identifying growth. Every single day, the employees of his ideas, and not to be held back by the discredited small businesses in my constituency work very hard to Labour past. create growth and the conditions for profitability, and they tell me that they are not getting the support they Mr Umunna: Back-handed compliments aside, it is need from either their local government or their national unfair of the hon. Gentleman to say that I did not talk Government. We need a culture change in our Government about the different elements of the five-point plan. I Departments. They need to say: “Our primary task—our remind him that I cited a list of the different business national mission—is to support the growth of enterprise organisations that have called in different ways for parts and business. What can we do every day to help people of that plan to be implemented—from the Federation to achieve that?” of Master Builders to the Federation of Small Businesses Will the Secretary of State also look at the opportunity and the CBI. provided by social enterprises? The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Richard Fuller: I appreciate that, and I shall continue Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), who is the Minister to listen intently to all the hon. Gentleman says. with responsibility for the civil society, is doing a lot of The challenge that this country faces to restore growth work with social enterprises to free them from some of is immense. It needs good ideas from both sides of the the burdens of regulation. Will the Secretary of State House and full commitment to the task. On that point, have his Department look at how the power of social may I say gently to my right hon. Friend the Secretary entrepreneurs can be brought to bear on our public of State, who is a noble individual and a good gentleman, services and public sector so that they can be more that sometimes people feel that the commitment to the productive? Social enterprises are a fantastic way to free market and business is not there 100% of the time encourage growth. 341 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 342

Will the Secretary of State consider using Parliament coming to train from areas of extreme deprivation. to review outdated statutory instruments, laws and There are many simple things that he could urge the regulations that are a bureaucratic drag on productivity Treasury to think about. For example, in my area there and business? Rather than using Parliament to pass new are plenty of vocational courses leading to jobs in laws, we could use it to scrap existing ones. I am sure we specialist sectors, yet young people from deprived areas can find time for that. who, had they stayed on at school, would have got free Thirdly and finally—this underlies all our efforts to school meals get no support to help them eat when at create growth—I benefited in my career from two college. fundamental pushes on growth in our economy: building TTE training runs a good training centre in my out the global supply chain and the consequential growth constituency providing Cogent training courses—I recently of financial services, which gave people the ability to had the great pleasure to attend the royal visit to the buy goods and services much more cheaply than they centre organised at the behest of the royal family. That would have got them had we relied only on a national training centre is doing fantastic work at the high end of economy; and the growth of information technology. the petrochemicals sector—with players such as Shell The next source of fantastic growth is likely to be when and Ineos Chlor—but it is having difficulty finding a households in India and China want to buy our goods. financial solution to deal with the needs of small and medium-sized enterprises. The Secretary of State will 2.59 pm know that in Germany the burden is often placed on the large players, which are encouraged to finance the supply Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It chain. That is one possible solution but the important is a pleasure to follow the thoughtful speech by the hon. point is that we need a practical solution, otherwise we Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller). He and I have a will have no way forward and the young people making common interest in the supply chains that he ended his themselves available to go on such courses will be— comments talking about. The Secretary of State knows that I have been working hard in the north-west region Andrew Bridgen: The hon. Gentleman is being to improve the automotive supply chain. That is one of mischievous by suggesting that there was a great the solutions because we are now in a position to deregulatory fervour about the previous Labour recapture work from countries to which work in the Government. For the past eight months he has served automotive sector was previously exported as a result of assiduously alongside me on the Löfstedt review looking changes in those countries’ economies. As labour costs at the reform of health and safety law. Would that have risen, as they will continue to do inexorably in review have been carried out under the previous Labour Poland and China for example, we will be able to start Government? Should it have been carried out? If so, thinking about recapturing that work. There needs to why was it not? be common ground there. I want to correct one point: for the second time, the Andrew Miller: I do not want to be tempted to hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) comment on the review because it would breach the made a mischievous intervention concerning the previous embargo—of course, the hon. Gentleman and I have Government’s record on deregulation. I think that the seen its contents—but I shall be happy to express my hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) will back me up views publicly in days to come. However, there is a fair on this point because she attended the Regulatory Reform amount of agreement between him and me on this Committee assiduously when I was its Chair: we could point so I ask him not to tempt me down that line. count on one hand the number of times a Conservative Mention has been made of the serious issue of the Member turned up to the Committee in the last Parliament. science base. The Secretary of State has got to get to Perhaps they are finding their road to Damascus at last. grips with the confusion in the university sector. A combination of things has impacted on the universities, Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): The hon. Gentleman such as the fees structure changes, the capital spend and I spent many happy hours tinkering around the problems and the overseas student issue. Yes, it is welcome edges of much regulation but we did not really power that millions of pounds are being spent on a graphene into the important pieces of regulation. Does he agree centre in Manchester, but would it not have been ironic that that is what the Government are now seeking to that had these rules been in place, Andre Geim might do? not have been at Manchester university to make those fantastic discoveries? The Government have to think Andrew Miller: That was certainly the case with the carefully about the possibility of damaging a £5 billion Regulatory Reform Committee—it used the framework industry that provides us not only with a superb base of the House to make limited adjustments—but we for our own research and development and science-based should remember the legacy left by Sir William Sargent, companies, but with a huge export of knowledge, which who did an amazing amount of work leading the Better improves our relationship with so many of the countries Regulation Executive and putting in place the framework with which we do business. I urge the Government to now being utilised. To ignore his work would be an rethink what they are doing in the university sector. insult to a fine public servant. On skills, I am pleased that the apprentice Minister 3.7 pm or the Minister for apprenticeships—whichever way it is—is here. I understand that he has indicated his wish Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): When I read the title of to visit West Cheshire college. He is most welcome to this debate—about supporting business to encourage visit that fine college built with resources provided by economic growth and employment—I hoped that all Labour but I would like him to think about some issues, the parties might for once argue constructively to come particularly the needs of apprentices and young people up with ideas together. I am sure that we all agree that 343 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 344

[Lorely Burt] Lorely Burt: I would not dream of criticising Opposition Members. I know that quite a number of them have run business in this country needs support, and we all want their own businesses—micro-businesses and bigger it to get that support. On the economy, however, that is businesses, too—but I also give our Government credit probably where the consensus ends. The coalition for coming up with that exemption, because it is an Government cannot abandon their plans and adopt the important source of help at a difficult time. seductive mantra of going less far, less fast. The Finance has been a big issue. We have not got it right consequences of doing that can be seen across the yet: there is more lending, but we still need to do more. channel in Greece, Portugal and Spain, which have We have continued the enterprise finance guarantee borrowing rates of 32%, 11% and 7% respectively, compared scheme and the programme of enterprise capital funds. with Germany’s 1.82%, France’s 3.12% and the UK’s We are also encouraging a more enabling environment 2.28%. for business angel investment, taking forward a package of investment readiness through a network of growth Mark Lazarowicz: The hon. Lady is in danger of hubs. Then there is the bank-led £1.5 billion business becoming complacent about the Government’s policies, growth fund, to provide funding of £2 million to £10 million which, as has been pointed out, are resulting in an for small and medium-sized businesses with strong growth increase in borrowing well beyond what was predicted. potential. What is more, as I am sure even the Opposition Is there not a danger that the UK could become the would concede, we have not failed to use strategic tools target of those who want to speculate on rising debt? to bring forward growth. Indeed, a number of those We need a change of policy internationally, as was strategic moves are ones that Labour introduced. suggested earlier, to prevent the entire world economy from falling into a cycle of more depression, recession After the knockabout we come to the constructive and less growth. That is the answer. She should not be part of the motion, which is very welcome; indeed, I complacent about the situation in the UK as a result of agree with some of it. However, the plan to levy a the Government’s policies, which are leading to increased £2 billion tax on bank bonuses—this week it is to fund borrowing. 100,000 jobs for young people and 25,000 more affordable homes—is a nice idea, but as my right hon. Friend the Lorely Burt: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, Secretary of State said, it is just not practical. We are and he is absolutely right to say that there is more already taxing banks every year to the tune of £2.5 billion, borrowing than we had anticipated. However, the amount on the basis of the banks’ balance sheets. That is more of borrowing will be going down year on year. I am sure than the Labour party raised with its £2 billion bankers’ that my colleagues on the Front Bench would agree bonus tax—a move that the right hon. Member for with me that we cannot get out of a debt crisis by Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) has already admitted borrowing more. At some stage we have to start actually has “failed”. paying the money back. The UK is borrowing at low Opposition colleagues also suggest reversing the VAT rates—we have that confidence. Let us just imagine how rise for a temporary period. That is great, but how are many more jobs would be lost and how many more they going to pay for it? What other cuts will they make people would be suffering if we were borrowing at instead? Is this part of their slowdown programme—their 32%—that is, if we were in one of those dark places. “not too far, not too fast”agenda, which has so spectacularly The motion starts with the usual party knockabout. failed in America, whose credit rating has been downgraded For example, we are supposedly “choking off” growth and whose debt is now $15 trillion? The motion calls on and us “failing to use strategically procurement and other tools to drive “to bring forward long-term…projects to get people back to growth and innovation”. work”. However, it is not true that we have failed in that I totally agree with that—who would not?—and I hope respect. We have cut corporation tax, and by the end of to see more strategies that complement the things that this Parliament we aim to create the most competitive we are already doing, such as the Green investment corporate tax system in the G20. Research and development bank, the green deal, house building, the growing places credits will rise by 200% this year and 225% next year. fund, and so on. I would also like the council house Then there is regulation. We have scrapped the proposals building programme to be brought forward before we that the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston receive the receipts from the sale of 100,000 council (Andrew Miller) was talking about, with savings to houses. Why wait? Let us build those houses now. business currently amounting to £350 million a year. Whatever we did in our little Committee, it never amounted I also agree with the suggestion of a one-year cut in to that sort of saving. We have also introduced a moratorium VAT on home improvements, repairs and maintenance. on new regulation for micro-businesses. The Treasury is losing many millions of pounds in revenue because of a growing black market involving Then there is technology and innovation centres, and private customers and small businesses paying cash for so on—I do not have time to say much more in five jobs done in their homes. The one-year national insurance minutes. tax break to help small businesses grow and create jobs is a great idea—one for which I have lobbied for some Julian Smith: The exemption for micro-businesses is a time. However, as a start, and to make it more affordable, key development from this Government. Does my hon. why not introduce it for small businesses? I would Friend think that some of the arrogance of Opposition greatly like to see— Members comes from their never having worked in a small business, and that that absence of business experience is influencing their views? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. 345 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 346

3.15 pm it was full of inaccuracies. The issue concerned HMRC’s penalties for late cheques for payroll. Mr Walker says Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): that HMRC had not told him of the penalties. He It is easy to launch into a debate about the macro argues that those penalties are a false economy, as they policy, but we all represent individual businesses. The could be the breaking point for some small firms. most frustrating thing for our electors, whatever seat we represent, is the gap between Government policy and HMRC’s reply described a letter allegedly sent to rhetoric, and the reality on the ground. I would like to Mr Walker in May, even though Mr Walker says that he use three businesses in my constituency to illustrate the keeps all his correspondence and has received nothing. way in which Government policy is damaging growth. My visit to his business showed him to be an assiduous record-keeper. HMRC admits to not having any record The first businessman, who should remain anonymous, of the letter it sent him. HMRC claims that it spoke to a is a local plumber, known to Members in all parts of the “Catherine Walker” about this in October, but nobody House because he has replaced many MPs’ bathrooms. of that name works for the company, and in any case He faces a dilemma because of the increase in VAT to this was months after the penalties were charged. My 20%. After 40 years in the industry, he tells me that the telephone conversations have been just as infuriating. I increase has become a psychological barrier for many am sure I am not the only Member who finds HMRC customers, as they are immediately able to work out the utterly unsatisfactory. amounts involved. People understand what they are paying much more than they do when the rate is 15% or Mark Lazarowicz: My hon. Friend may recall that 17.5%. He is afraid that the VAT increase is a double the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) whammy for the economy. First, there will be more said a few moments ago that we were arrogant in raising VAT avoidance and the tax take will fall, thereby making these issues, but she is absolutely right to raise all the it harder to reduce the deficit. Secondly, the increase concerns of our constituents. We do not raise them will lead to people not doing jobs around their homes, because we are arrogant, but because we see the effects which will stifle economic growth. The Opposition have of Government policy on our constituents every day. said that we want to reverse the VAT rise and have a We know that the Government might be trying to a one-year cut to 5% on home improvements. I strongly certain extent, but what they are doing is not good believe that we should analyse the impact of the VAT enough and it is not working. That is why we want increase on small businesses, in the long-term financial action now to deal with people’s problems with tax and interests of the country. unemployment—and it must be more than what the The second concern is about banks’ lending policies. Government are doing already. Terry Withers, of Admiral Scaffolding, a company of 20 years standing, says that Government-backed RBS Siobhain McDonagh: I agree completely with my refused to let the business go overdrawn by just £5,000, hon. Friend. I am making this speech because I want even though it was the first time he had ever asked for the Government to be sure that they know what individual an overdraft and the business had uncleared cheques small businesses and manufacturing businesses are saying going through its account worth £26,000. The company on the ground. was also refused a loan that would have seen it convert all its vehicles to the latest green technology and expand Andrew Bridgen rose— its scaffolding kit, which in turn would have allowed it to increase the number of people it employs from 100 to Siobhain McDonagh: I do not want to take up too 140. Mr Withers says that he is exactly the sort of much time because I know others have things to say. I business man who has lost out because of the failure of am seriously concerned about HMRC’s handling of the Government’s Project Merlin. casework and I do not think that it has the capacity to In the first three quarters of the year, over half the balance its role in raising taxes with its key role in SMEs applying for an overdraft for the first time were generating economic growth. I hope that we can explore refused. A few months ago, when I took up the case of this concern on future occasions. I am grateful for the another business in a similar position, the Merton opportunity to let the House know how my constituents chamber of commerce told me that local firms were feel. pessimistic about the future because of constraints on their working capital and the difficulty of raising finances. No wonder the CBI has found that almost two thirds of 3.21pm business leaders are considering changing their work Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) force plans. The truth is that, so far, the Government (Con): Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving have been unable to make the banks lend—that includes me the opportunity to speak in this important debate. even our own banks, such as RBS—and when the banks There is no doubt that growth and employment should refuse, direct Government help is pitiful. be at the top of everyone’s list of priorities, and I know My third case concerns Her Majesty’s Revenue and that that applies to this Government, who are trying to Customs. I would like to take this opportunity to voice promote that agenda. This motion, however, does nothing my anger about its disgraceful attitude when dealing to build on that. It is just more of the same from the with MPs’ casework. I have always had difficulties in Labour party—the party that brought us to the brink of dealing with HMRC. In the most recent case, which was bankruptcy. [Interruption.] It is the party that just loves brought to my attention by Simon Walker of SPS to spend other people’s money. Timber, a window manufacturer and replacement company in my constituency, I wrote to HMRC in August. It Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): I think that the wrote back nearly four weeks later to say that it hoped hon. Gentleman might have dropped his script. According to reply to me by November. Then when the reply came to his own party, growth and job creation are not the 347 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 348

[Toby Perkins] and medium-sized enterprises, know that their most valuable asset is their staff. Employers need staff and No. 1 priority, which is deficit reduction. We absolutely staff need employers. The problem has been that in the support the hon. Gentleman in what he said, so will he current economic climate firms are cautious about taking start to put some pressure on his party to put growth on additional risk, and that often means being cautious and job security at the top of the agenda again? about taking on additional staff. I believe that making it easier for companies to manage their staff levels makes Stephen Metcalfe: I put the two hand in hand. it easier for them to take on staff. Knowing that the [Interruption.] Yes I do. The Government have a cogent risks of employment have been reduced might well plan, but as I say, they have to deal with the reality that unlock the employment door. we inherited. As I was saying, the Labour party just loves to spend Bill Esterson: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that other people’s money. We all like to spend money: it one of the worst things for an employer, particularly a give us that warm glow inside, but I imagine that the small business, is having staff who are unsettled, looking rate at which Labour has spent money, and wants to for other jobs and fearful for their own future, which is spend it again, would give a white-hot glow. Labour actually bad both for the business and the economy, Members do not even try to hide the fact that they spent because those people spend less money? The measures all the money. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, proposed by the Government will simply contribute Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) informed us in his now infamous further to that, and make the situation worse. note that there was no money left. Again, it falls to us to clear up their mess. Stephen Metcalfe: I agree that having an unsettled work force is not healthy, which is why it falls to Andrew Bridgen: The hon. Member for Mitcham and business men to reassure their staff. However, it is Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) talked about problems possible to unsettle a business by insisting that it employ at the Inland Revenue, but is not the truth that the staff when there is not necessarily a role for them and it botched merger with Customs and Excise has meant a might be difficult to afford them. vast deterioration in performance, which has affected many of my constituents? That is the fault of the Labour Government. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Stephen Metcalfe: I could not agree with my hon. Friend more. That is another problem that we have to Stephen Metcalfe: No I will not, I am afraid. sort out by clearing up the mess left by the previous Responsible businesses have, and recognise that they Government. have, a duty of care towards their employees and will Despite what Labour Members say and despite the often put their welfare before their own. They will not sentiment behind this motion, we are, I believe, making take decisions that would destabilise an existing business. good progress. As we have heard, we are creating the As someone who has run my own business—and, most competitive tax system in the G20; we are investing unfortunately, had to let staff go—I know how difficult in businesses to help them start up and grow; we are those decisions are to take and how painful they can be encouraging inward investment and supporting exports; on both sides of the divide. Businesses do not want to we are investing in science and technology and creating take risks with the livelihood of those whom they a more educated and more flexible work force. Of already employ, so they may not hire additional staff course there is still more to do, and I believe we are unless absolutely they are sure that they are needed and doing it. affordable. Trying to downscale later could be costly For example, today, my right hon. Friend the Business and time-consuming, so they avoid the risk. Secretary announced new reforms to employment law— The proposals announced today might well help mentioned by the hon. Member for Streatham employers to make the decision to hire earlier, thus (Mr Umunna)—as part of the Government’s plan for stimulating employment and growth, especially in small growth, which will cut unnecessary demands on business and medium-sized enterprises. If each one were to while safeguarding workers’ rights. However, if we listen employ one additional member of staff, we would have to the instant reaction from Labour, we find that they an employment deficit. This will build on what has would have us believe that these measures are anti- already been achieved in the last 18 months, with 500,000 employment and the reforms are about making it easier new private sector jobs, more than 500,000 new businesses for companies to fire staff. I believe that the reverse is created, the manufacturing sector growing and our true. The Opposition spend a lot of time trying to cast credit rating restored. employers as the bad guys—as a group of money grabbers trying to get rich off the backs of the workers. Labour Members would have us believe that they left us with some golden economic legacy, but nothing Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): Is my hon. Friend could be further from the truth. In the 13 years they interested to hear the comments of the former Labour were in power unemployment rose, workless households MEP Eluned Morgan, who is now a Baroness, when she rose, and households where no one had ever worked stated that many in the private sector had sensed the more than doubled. Unfortunately, we also saw youth animosity of the Labour party towards that sector? unemployment, which we all accept is a problem when it has risen to nearly 1 million. That is why I welcome Stephen Metcalfe: I would indeed agree with that the measures that the Government have brought forward, view. I believe that all Government Members, and I particularly in my own constituency, which has seen the suspect some Opposition Members too, would agree number of apprenticeship places rise this year from 560 that the vast majority of businesses, especially small to 740. 349 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 350

The Opposition’s plan B is not credible. It just means One North East levered in £9 for every pound spent—much spending more money that we do not have, because they more than the national average—and skills levels also have spent it all. It means borrowing more, and hang improved year on year. the consequences. It means saying, “Hide the bills, stop opening the post, don’t answer the door.” Well, that will Angela Smith: The first technology innovation centre, not work. When you are in a hole you must stop Sheffield’s advanced manufacturing park, was established digging, but we are trying to climb out of the hole that by a Labour Government through a regional development we are in. The Opposition’s solution means doing the agency working with the private sector. Such arrangements equivalent of going to a payday lender to borrow and have been criticised by Government Members, particularly spend your way out of trouble. We all know what Liberal Democrats. happens when people do that: they lose their credit Roberta Blackman-Woods: My hon. Friend has made rating, and that is a really serious problem which could an excellent point. It is interesting to note that before cost this country many billions of pounds that it does the general election, in my region at least, the Liberal not have. Democrats were apparently in favour of regional development agencies. 3.29 pm David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Will the Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): hon. Lady give way? The audacity and complacency of Government Members is truly extraordinary, given the present state of the Roberta Blackman-Woods: I am sorry; I am running economy. The headline figures for UK economic growth out of time. are deeply worrying. Growth is flatlining, and it is We know that the RDA helped to invest in a new becoming increasingly obvious to anyone with any sense generation of advanced technologies with expanding that the Government’s decision to cut too far and too markets around the world, which greatly helped growth fast is choking it off. We also know that growth began in the north-east. Through industry, Government and to stall before the effect of the eurozone crisis kicked in, university collaborations, a number of sectors were and that even now the full impact of that crisis has not identified in which growth should be prioritised, including yet been felt. the processing and chemical industries, automotive and advanced manufacturing, and printable electronics. Those Bill Esterson: The figures show that consumer and sectors, critically, were underpinned by centres of excellence business confidence began to decline when the coalition supported by the regional development agency. Government were formed, at the time when the Prime Did the incoming Government seek to build on that? Minister started talking about Britain being bankrupt. No. What they did instead was get rid of One North Was not the Prime Minister very unwise to make such East, although it had extensive support from businesses comments? and the community in the north-east, and what we have in its place is the regional growth fund, about which I Roberta Blackman-Woods: Indeed. We also know shall say more in a moment. The loss of the regional that as a consequence of Government policies—and development agency led to a loss of expertise in regard according to independent forecasts—it is very likely to the sectors that needed to be developed in the north-east, that borrowing will have to increase. That is having and a loss of what was necessary to support that devastating consequences. Unemployment is rising, development. In great contrast, the regional growth particularly among the young, although women are fund not only has less money but is not strategic at all. I also being disproportionately affected. am very pleased that a number of north-east companies The headline figures should concern us, but what have benefited from the RGF, although the Secretary of should also trouble us greatly is the uneven way in State must address the fact that getting the money which the consequences of the Government’s disastrous through to the companies is taking a long time. economic policies are being felt across the country. Once again the north-east seems to be bearing the brunt Andrew Bridgen: Will the hon. Lady give way? of the Conservatives’ economic policies, but this time—and Roberta Blackman-Woods: No; I am sorry, but I am I hope that this point is not lost on the voters of the running out of time. north-east—they have the collusion of the Liberal The RGF along with local enterprise partnerships Democrats. and enterprise zones do not by any stretch of the The current unemployment rate is 11.6% in the north- imagination add up to an economic policy for growth east, but only 6.3% in the south-east. Similarly, the for the north-east, or for anywhere else for that matter, claimant count is highest in the north-east and lowest in because they are fragmented initiatives with no local the south-east. As I have said, the situation is even coherence. The RGF will not help to narrow the north-south worse for young people. In the north-east, unemployment divide, either. As I have acknowledged, a number of among young people increased by 106.3% between January companies in the north-east have benefited from the and October 2011, prompting real fears that the region RGF, and according to the Government’s own figures would return to the economic dark times of the 1980s. that will secure about 8,500 jobs, but in the same RGF Yet this dire situation is so unnecessary. round money went to the south-east to secure 30,000 Contrary to what the Secretary of State said—it is jobs. unfortunate that he is not present, because I wanted The north-east’s problems are compounded by the him to hear this—in the north-east gross value added fact that the RGF money is not a sufficient injection actually grew between 1989 and 2008, as did GVA per to the private sector to enable it to make up for the head of population. That was primarily because money jobs that are being lost in the public sector. To put the channelled through the regional development agency figure of 8,500 jobs in context, last month alone 351 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 352

[Roberta Blackman-Woods] deprived communities in the United Kingdom. It was cut because it was supporting private enterprise, which unemployment in the north-east rose by 19,000. The the Labour party does not understand or embrace. Government must do more, therefore. In the past Despite the fact that the motion, in general, is incoherent, couple of weeks a number of independent commentators, I want to follow up a few points. In my constituency, we including the North East chamber of commerce and are extremely dependent on tourism, which is a major PricewaterhouseCoopers, have said that the Government driver of growth in north Wales. It is imperative, in my need to do more to support private sector development view, that that sector is supported. I should point out in the north-east, and our five-point plan for growth that under pressure the Welsh Assembly has finally sets out a clear way for them to start supporting the acknowledged that the sector deserves support, but economy. initially the Welsh Assembly Government stated that tourism deserved no support whatsoever. 3.37 pm My concern about tourism is that as a coalition Government we stress the need to create a competitive Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): I am grateful to have tax regime for our businesses but in Europe other the opportunity to bring a Welsh perspective to this countries are significantly reducing VAT on tourism. It debate. The hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) is important that we have a level playing field and I ask is no longer in his place, but I must say that his speech the Secretary of State to consider discussing the issue was much more coherent than the Opposition’s motion. with the Treasury to ensure that tourism in Wales can When considering economic growth across the entire benefit from similar VAT rates to those in other parts of United Kingdom, it is important to remember that Europe, including Ireland and France. There are reports there is a Labour Government in Wales, and we can to which I have access that state that the multiplier compare and contrast what is happening in Wales with effect of making such cuts would be financially beneficial the positive steps the coalition Government are taking to the Treasury. in supporting enterprise and private sector growth. The other issue that is imperative for growth in the Businesses in Wales are crying out for the enterprise economy is support for small businesses. It is all very zone idea to be implemented in Wales, yet we are still well to say that there will be a cut in the corporation tax awaiting a coherent announcement from the Welsh rate, but most of the new start-up businesses that are Assembly. We in Wales have a Labour Minister for creating real employment in my constituency will be enterprise and the economy who has stated that she sole traders and partnerships. Obviously, they will benefit regrets capitalism. It is therefore no surprise that the from the increase in personal allowances, but a key issue Institute of Directors and other organisations have that creates a problem for them is the VAT registration stated they feel that there is no partnership with the threshold. Nobody denies that the UK has a very high Labour Assembly Government and that Labour rejects, VAT registration threshold at £73,000, but that is not rather than embraces, the private sector. my complaint. As businesses grow and start to reach the threshold, they find themselves on a cliff edge. If they Steve Rotheram: Does the hon. Gentleman not go over that level, they have to register for VAT and lose understand that there is a symbiotic relationship between a significant part of their profitability. We need to the public and private sectors? If we cut one, the other reconsider the VAT threshold to support small businesses. bleeds. What is needed at present is a transfusion for the private sector, which is part of Labour’s five-point plan. I understand that we are running out of time in the debate, so I shall leave that issue with the Secretary of Guto Bebb: If what we are seeing in Wales is an State. To support small businesses in my constituency, example of Labour economic thinking, I am very pleased we need to consider the VAT threshold and how it that it is in opposition in the rest of the United Kingdom. interacts with profitability. The truth of the matter is that the Labour party in Wales has shown across the generations a failure to 3.42 pm understand the importance of supporting enterprise. Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): I thank Bill Esterson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? all those who have participated in today’s debate. On this side, we heard sparkling presentations from my Guto Bebb: Not at the moment, as I wish to finish the hon. Friends the Members for Ochil and South Perthshire point I am making. The valley communities in Wales (Gordon Banks), for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew have suffered extremely badly not just for 10 or 15 years, Miller), for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) but over a period of 30, 40 and 50 years, and it is fair to and for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods). point out that throughout that entire time they have, We heard interesting contributions from Members on unfortunately, been electing Labour councillors, Labour the other side of the House, too, including a speech MPs and Labour Assembly Members. There was a from the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt), who fantastic business support programme in the south Wales appears to give our five-point plan two out of five, and valleys called the heads of the valleys innovation a particularly stimulating speech from the hon. Member programme. It was such a good programme that in 2010 for Bedford (Richard Fuller)—I do not think, however, it won the award for the most successful enterprise that it will put him on the Secretary of State’s Christmas support programme in the entire United Kingdom. card list. What did the Labour Administration in Cardiff do? It is clear that for businesses, councils and communities They cut its funding, and that was the end of an across England, this has been a wasted and frustrated organisation that had supported hundreds of businesses year for growth in England’s regions under the Department’s and protected more than 4,000 jobs in some of the most watch. It has been a wasted and frustrated year for the 353 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 354 entrepreneurs and communities who have found their Back in February, the Labour Front-Bench team ability to grow and innovate stifled through the made six proposals to support LEPs, such as giving Department’s inability to present a coherent framework them first refusal on assets, providing them with start-up for growth or to stand up for their interests against funding, giving them powers over skills funding, allowing other Government Departments. In all three key areas them to form larger groups for infrastructure projects that are vital to growth—supporting the local enterprise and giving them a central role in the delivery of funding partnerships, making the regional growth fund work from the European regional development fund. The properly and securing regeneration funding from Europe— Government’s response, however, was to block them the Department has been weighed in the balance and from receiving assets or even acquiring them by deferred found wanting. Time and again, the Department has payment. It was only the broad support across a whole failed to be the Department for growth. host of business organisations for our direction of As long ago as last September, the Minister of State, travel that pushed the Government into a climbdown the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), over their proposed fire sale of RDA assets. felt the need to write to the Secretary of State to warn of The Government have given only limited seedcorn the icebergs ahead. He listed the organisations that were funding to LEPs—about £6 million for 40. That remains anxious about the way the LEPs were being set up and inadequate and the future of LEPs, especially for those the failure to make them more sufficiently business- without enterprise zones as growth vehicles, remains orientated and he ended by warning that fragile. The Government have also failed to address other key measures that would empower LEPs and give “the danger is that the CBI and others become detached from this policy heralding likely failure in large parts of England”. them the tools to do their job—despite repeated calls for the LEPs to be given more powers. As has been Who can forget that the Secretary of State himself warned by the Federation of Small Businesses and, famously described the process as Maoist and chaotic, more recently, Centre for Cities in its report, the Government while the former CBI director general, Richard need to get a grip of underperforming LEPs before it is Lambert, simply confined himself to saying that it was too late. There are real fears that entrepreneurs and a shambles? local businesses in LEPs will simply walk away if they That should come as no surprise given that in June simply become talking shops—as the Forum of Private 2010 the Secretary of State went to the Northwest Business has warned in its briefing today. RDA, praised the work that it and other agencies had We have always argued on principle that money intended done and gave them assurances, only to have to confirm for the regions should remain in the regions. That is the their abolition two weeks later after he lost the argument stark contrast between our real localism and the with the Chancellor, who wanted them axed. It was an Government’s sham localism. They preach localism but early example of the loss of authority and dismemberment when they had the chance to give LEPs additional of decision making that his Department has endured powers in the Localism Bill they funked it. As growth in ever since. BIS Ministers allowed a decade’s worth of the economy has flatlined, the Department for Business, expertise and local know-how to be lost almost overnight. Innovation and Skills has become progressively enfeebled Experienced RDA staff were let go before the LEPs as it has lost turf battles to the Department for Communities were up and running and at the very time when they and Local Government and the Treasury. could have provided crucial assistance. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills No wonder that even the Government’s growth tsar, still protests that the regional growth fund will save the Lord Heseltine, who heads up the regional growth fund, day but, as my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of has come out and said that their hasty abolition of State has so forensically detailed, there is no more RDAs was a mistake. Not the least of the errors was the fitting emblem for its failures than the regional growth fact that this swept away all the informal architecture fund. Right from the start, the Department’s grasp on and channels of connection between business, further the fund has been feeble and flawed. In rounds one and education, higher education and small employers that two it was hopelessly oversubscribed, but the only response had been built up to boost growth in the English of the Minister of State was “That’s life”. Well, he regions. We saw the cost of their hasty abolition when should tell that to the consortia and to businesses. He Pfizer announced the closure of its Sandwich plant in should tell it to those who have had to wait an age for February. The South East England Development Agency the cheque in the post. No wonder Andrew Neil said so had previously been able to act swiftly with a task force memorably on “Daily Politics” to the Secretary of State to help those affected to find jobs, but this time the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, “The £1.4 billion Government failed to use that RDA even though it still fund has so far disbursed £5.8 million. Why is your had some people in post who could have given advice. Government so useless?” How many people does the Department have working on round two? The answer David Mowat: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? that was dragged out of them through parliamentary questions was that there are only 11 full-time staff working on the fund. We can do the maths ourselves. Mr Marsden: No, I will not because there is not time. How long will it take 11 people to work through the 119 The Government failed to put Sandwich in the initial successful bids to the second round? list of enterprise zones or to approve any of Kent’s Small and medium-sized enterprises, which are a key first-round RGF bids. We saw the same pattern of help element in growth across the regions, find themselves being denied initially and then an enterprise zone being short-changed and unrepresented on a number of the hastily cobbled together when disaster struck at Derby boards. They are frozen out by the Government’s thresholds with Bombardier and with BAE at Warton and Samlesbury. of £1 million minimum on RGF funding and £5 million The Department is behind the curve and out of touch on the business growth fund. No wonder there is such with events on the ground. frustration. What is more, the growth fund seems to 355 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 356

[Mr Marsden] 3.52 pm The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong have hardly any regional input. All the decisions are Learning (Mr John Hayes): First, the previous Government being micro-managed by Whitehall civil servants. There inherited a boom, and then they bequeathed a bust and is no regional consultation or input and no sign that a massive deficit, so our top priority must be to deal local offices will play a meaningful role in the process. with the consequences of that and keep out of the With the propriety of some of their decisions called downward spiral into which countries such as Greece into account, the Government have pulled down the and Italy have fallen. shutters on the detailed parliamentary questions that we have tabled about the process and the conflicts of As my hon. Friends the Members for Bedford (Richard interests on the advisory panel. That is not surprising, Fuller), for Solihull (Lorely Burt), for South Basildon as BIS presides over a scheme into which it does not put and East Thurrock (Stephen Metcalfe), and for Aberconwy a penny. Despite proclaiming, as he has done again (Guto Bebb) have argued, more than ever we need a today, the number of jobs that will be created, the plan to give confidence to markets, businesses and our Secretary of State has admitted that they are merely people. This debate was introduced by the shadow going on their own estimates. Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna). It was his first major outing, and I Despite the money that the Department for Transport thought that his speech was fair. It was better on has put into the growth fund, the fund has failed to look structure than on presentation—but then again, I at new public transport projects or build on the importance suppose the 11 advisers write the speeches; they do not of travel-to-work areas. The Government have abandoned deliver them. [Interruption.] No, I am a fan of the hon. the active industrial policy that, in our last years in Gentleman. It has become orthodox to say that he has office, we pursued, and that led to the successful carbon been over-promoted, but I think that that is a welcome strategy pursued by One North East. Ministers from change from the self-promotion that has characterised the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills his career so far. We can therefore be grateful that he is should have done everything in their power to unlock at the Dispatch Box, as he predicted he would be for so the European funding that did so much good and long. boosted jobs and growth across the regions, but in this, The problem with the hon. Gentleman and other as in other areas, they have been sidelined. Opposition Members—in fairness, we heard some good speeches from them—is that they still refuse to Why have the Government produced the Growing acknowledge that reducing the deficit is central to any Places fund like a rabbit out of a hat? Is it because even credible plan. We only have to look at the continuing the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Communities crisis on the continent to see what would happen if we and Local Government have given up on the Department do not do so. To be analytical about it, the hon. Gentleman for Business, Innovation and Skills? Once again, there made a speech about cyclical problems in a structural will be no BIS input in the process—only tanks on its context. The issues around debt and deficit in this lawn from the Secretary of State for Communities and country are structural, and they will not be solved by Local Government. cyclical solutions. England’s regions are full of people with ambitions and ideas about how to bring growth to their area, but Mr Umunna: The Minister seeks to give me a lecture the indecision and powerlessness shown by the BIS on reducing the deficit. Can he explain why, as I asked ministerial team has short-changed them and failed to the Secretary of State earlier, in the average of the rebalance our economy or provide a plan for growth. independent forecasts, his Government are forecast to They have failed to stand up for the needs of local borrow more in every remaining year of this Parliament businesses, whether it is small towns in Kent or former than we were under our more responsible deficit reduction industrial areas in the north-east. They have gone too strategy? far, too fast, in scrapping the regional development agencies and their collaborative structures, and become Mr Hayes: That was the ponderous exaltation of a mangled in lost turf wars with CLG and the Treasury. basic economic fact: when tax yields fall because there They are like a rabbit caught in the headlights, petrified is less growth than expected, and welfare payments go of the markets, but there are positive things that could up, of course that is a result, but it is not a reason not to be done for the fight. Roosevelt famously said that there have a credible fiscal policy. The hon. Gentleman remains is nothing to fear but “fear itself”, and Lincoln said that in denial, just as the shadow Chancellor remains in when the denial, but the OECD— “occasion is piled high with difficulty…we must rise high with the Mr Bailey rose— occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew.” Mr Hayes: I am sorry, I will not give way. I usually do The Opposition understand that, which is we have a but I do not have time. five-point plan for growth. We understand that young The OECD says that we have a £37 billion structural people across England’s regions are crying out for the deficit and that it is the largest in the G7. It is not just opportunities that our national insurance changes will about the Government debt. The hon. Member for provide by enabling us to build affordable homes and Streatham must know that if we look at debt as a whole, reduce VAT to 5% on repairs. We understand the need we have the largest debt as a proportion of GDP in the for an industrial strategy, and we understand the need developed world, with the exception of Japan. for new ideas, and then, by thinking anew and acting anew, we will save our country. Gordon Banks rose— 357 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 358

Mr Hayes: No, I will not give way again. Time does The House divided: Ayes 236, Noes 304. not allow. Division No. 399] [3.59 pm So, the first thing we have to do is deal with the deficit. The second thing, as the Secretary of State said AYES in his penetrating analysis of this weak motion, is to Abbott, Ms Diane Dowd, Jim rebalance our economy in favour of making things, Abrahams, Debbie Doyle, Gemma selling them and exporting them. That means an Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Dromey, Jack investment in human capital as well as in infrastructure. Alexander, Heidi Dugher, Michael That is why we have put so much emphasis on Ali, Rushanara Durkan, Mark apprenticeships. Allen, Mr Graham Eagle, Ms Angela Anderson, Mr David Edwards, Jonathan I noticed that, sensibly, neither the proposer of the Austin, Ian Efford, Clive motion, the hon. Member for Streatham, nor the hon. Bailey, Mr Adrian Elliott, Julie Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden), who summed Bain, Mr William Ellman, Mrs Louise up and who has rather sensible views about these things Balls, rh Ed Engel, Natascha for the most part, attacked our apprenticeships policy. Banks, Gordon Esterson, Bill They know that we have delivered the biggest growth in Beckett, rh Margaret Evans, Chris Begg, Dame Anne Farrelly, Paul apprenticeships in modern history. They know that Bell, Sir Stuart Field, rh Mr Frank across regions and across sectors, we have shown growth Benn, rh Hilary Fitzpatrick, Jim in apprenticeship numbers. There is a great deal of Berger, Luciana Flello, Robert discussion about this so let us get the facts on the Blackman-Woods, Flint, rh Caroline record. Roberta Flynn, Paul Apprenticeships among 19 to 24-year-olds have grown Blears, rh Hazel Fovargue, Yvonne Blenkinsop, Tom Francis, Dr Hywel by 64% in two years, and among 16 to 18-year-olds by Blomfield, Paul Gapes, Mike 29% in two years. They have grown even more among Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Gilmore, Sheila over-25-year-olds, but the biggest proportion of growth Brennan, Kevin Glass, Pat has been at level 3. It has been across sectors and across Brown, Lyn Glindon, Mrs Mary regions. The biggest regional growth—I say this to the Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Godsiff, Mr Roger hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman- Brown, Mr Russell Goggins, rh Paul Woods)—has been in the north-east. Bryant, Chris Greatrex, Tom Buck, Ms Karen Green, Kate The third element of the strategy must be to deal with Burnham, rh Andy Greenwood, Lilian tax, cut red tape and bureaucracy, and support businesses Byrne, rh Mr Liam Griffith, Nia to create jobs and fuel growth. Much has been said Campbell, Mr Alan Gwynne, Andrew about what the Government have done in that respect. Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hain, rh Mr Peter It is true that we have launched the growth and innovation Caton, Martin Hamilton, Mr David fund, which is supporting life sciences, the creative Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hamilton, Fabian industries, the hospitality industry and others. It is also Clark, Katy Hanson, rh Mr David true that the regional growth fund is doing that job as Clarke, rh Mr Tom Havard, Mr Dai well. In the first phase the regional growth fund will Clwyd, rh Ann Healey, rh John support 50 projects and ultimately more than 150 projects. Coffey, Ann Hendrick, Mark That will leverage more than £8 billion of private sector Connarty, Michael Hepburn, Mr Stephen investment to create or safeguard more than 300,000 Cooper, Rosie Heyes, David Cooper, rh Yvette Hillier, Meg jobs. That is the simple fact of the matter. Corbyn, Jeremy Hilling, Julie Labour does not have a credible alternative. The Crausby, Mr David Hodge, rh Margaret Opposition’s five-point plan is rooted in a denial about Creagh, Mary Hoey, Kate deficit which would undermine confidence in business Creasy, Stella Hopkins, Kelvin and in the markets, push up interest rates and do lasting Cruddas, Jon Howarth, rh Mr George Cryer, John Irranca-Davies, Huw damage to Britain. The Labour party inherited a boom. Cunningham, Alex Jackson, Glenda Its legacy was a bust. Cunningham, Mr Jim Jamieson, Cathy The shadow Chancellor is not present, but his fingerprints Cunningham, Tony Jarvis, Dan are on the motion once again. He said recently that he Curran, Margaret Johnson, rh Alan cries at “The Sound of Music”and “AntiquesRoadshow”. Dakin, Nic Johnson, Diana We all wondered why “Antiques Roadshow”. I will tell Danczuk, Simon Jones, Graham Jones, Helen the House: he is wedded to the idea of an over-valued, David, Mr Wayne Jones, Mr Kevan tired out, worn out old Cabinet, and it is the one that he Davidson, Mr Ian Davies, Geraint Jones, Susan Elan was in. The previous Government and current Opposition De Piero, Gloria Jowell, rh Tessa would be better taking advice from a singing nun than Denham, rh Mr John Joyce, Eric from the shadow Chancellor or the hon. Member for Dobbin, Jim Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Streatham. Dobson, rh Frank Keeley, Barbara I urge the House to choose between the past and the Docherty, Thomas Kendall, Liz future, between despair and hope, between fantasy and Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Khan, rh Sadiq reality, and vote for hopeful reality by opposing the Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey Lavery, Ian motion. M. Lazarowicz, Mark Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Leslie, Chris Question put. Doran, Mr Frank Lloyd, Tony 359 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 360

Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Bradley, Karen Graham, Richard Love, Mr Andrew Rotheram, Steve Brady, Mr Graham Grant, Mrs Helen MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Roy, Mr Frank Brake, rh Tom Gray, Mr James MacShane, rh Mr Denis Roy, Lindsay Bray, Angie Grayling, rh Chris Mactaggart, Fiona Ruane, Chris Brazier, Mr Julian Green, Damian Mahmood, Mr Khalid Ruddock, rh Joan Bridgen, Andrew Greening, rh Justine Mahmood, Shabana Seabeck, Alison Brine, Steve Griffiths, Andrew Mann, John Shannon, Jim Brooke, Annette Gummer, Ben Marsden, Mr Gordon Sharma, Mr Virendra Bruce, Fiona Hague, rh Mr William McCabe, Steve Sheerman, Mr Barry Buckland, Mr Robert Halfon, Robert McCann, Mr Michael Sheridan, Jim Burley, Mr Aidan Hames, Duncan McCarthy, Kerry Shuker, Gavin Burns, Conor Hammond, rh Mr Philip McClymont, Gregg Skinner, Mr Dennis Burns, rh Mr Simon Hammond, Stephen McCrea, Dr William Slaughter, Mr Andy Burrowes, Mr David Hancock, Matthew McDonagh, Siobhain Smith, rh Mr Andrew Burstow, Paul Hancock, Mr Mike McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Smith, Angela Burt, Lorely Hands, Greg McDonnell, John Smith, Nick Cable, rh Vince Harper, Mr Mark McFadden, rh Mr Pat Smith, Owen Cairns, Alun Harrington, Richard McGovern, Jim Spellar, rh Mr John Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harris, Rebecca McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Straw, rh Mr Jack Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hart, Simon McKechin, Ann Stringer, Graham Carswell, Mr Douglas Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan McKenzie, Mr Iain Stuart, Ms Gisela Clappison, Mr James Hayes, Mr John McKinnell, Catherine Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Clark, rh Greg Heald, Oliver Meacher, rh Mr Michael Tami, Mark Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Heath, Mr David Meale, Sir Alan Thomas, Mr Gareth Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Heaton-Harris, Chris Michael, rh Alun Thornberry, Emily Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hemming, John Miliband, rh David Timms, rh Stephen Colvile, Oliver Henderson, Gordon Cox, Mr Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Miliband, rh Edward Trickett, Jon Miller, Andrew Crabb, Stephen Hinds, Damian Turner, Karl Mitchell, Austin Crockart, Mike Hollingbery, George Twigg, Derek Morden, Jessica Crouch, Tracey Hollobone, Mr Philip Twigg, Stephen Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Davey, Mr Edward Hopkins, Kris Umunna, Mr Chuka Morris, Grahame M. Davies, David T. C. Horwood, Martin (Easington) Vaz, rh Keith (Monmouth) Howell, John Mudie, Mr George Vaz, Valerie Davies, Glyn Hughes, rh Simon Munn, Meg Walley, Joan Davies, Philip Huhne, rh Chris Murphy, rh Mr Jim Watson, Mr Tom Davis, rh Mr David Hunter, Mark Murphy, rh Paul Watts, Mr Dave de Bois, Nick Huppert, Dr Julian Murray, Ian Weir, Mr Mike Dinenage, Caroline Hurd, Mr Nick Nandy, Lisa Whitehead, Dr Alan Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Jackson, Mr Stewart Nash, Pamela Wicks, rh Malcolm Dorries, Nadine James, Margot Onwurah, Chi Williams, Hywel Doyle-Price, Jackie Javid, Sajid Osborne, Sandra Williamson, Chris Drax, Richard Jenkin, Mr Bernard Owen, Albert Winnick, Mr David Duddridge, James Johnson, Gareth Paisley, Ian Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Johnson, Joseph Pearce, Teresa Wishart, Pete Ellis, Michael Jones, Andrew Perkins, Toby Wood, Mike Ellison, Jane Jones, Mr David Pound, Stephen Woodcock, John Ellwood, Mr Tobias Jones, Mr Marcus Elphicke, Charlie Kawczynski, Daniel Qureshi, Yasmin Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Eustice, George Kelly, Chris Wright, David Reed, Mr Jamie Evans, Graham Kirby, Simon Wright, Mr Iain Reeves, Rachel Evans, Jonathan Knight, rh Mr Greg Reynolds, Emma Tellers for the Ayes: Evennett, Mr David Kwarteng, Kwasi Robertson, Angus Jonathan Ashworth and Fabricant, Michael Lamb, Norman Robertson, John Phil Wilson Farron, Tim Lancaster, Mark Featherstone, Lynne Lansley, rh Mr Andrew NOES Field, Mark Latham, Pauline Foster, rh Mr Don Leadsom, Andrea Adams, Nigel Barwell, Gavin Francois, rh Mr Mark Lee, Jessica Afriyie, Adam Bebb, Guto Freeman, George Leech, Mr John Aldous, Peter Beith, rh Sir Alan Freer, Mike Lefroy, Jeremy Amess, Mr David Benyon, Richard Fullbrook, Lorraine Leigh, Mr Edward Andrew, Stuart Beresford, Sir Paul Fuller, Richard Leslie, Charlotte Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Berry, Jake Garnier, Mr Edward Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Bacon, Mr Richard Bingham, Andrew Garnier, Mark Lewis, Brandon Baker, Norman Birtwistle, Gordon George, Andrew Lewis, Dr Julian Baker, Steve Blackman, Bob Gibb, Mr Nick Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Baldry, Tony Blackwood, Nicola Gilbert, Stephen Lidington, rh Mr David Baldwin, Harriett Blunt, Mr Crispin Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lilley, rh Mr Peter Barclay, Stephen Boles, Nick Glen, John Lloyd, Stephen Barker, Gregory Bone, Mr Peter Goldsmith, Zac Lord, Jonathan Baron, Mr John Bottomley, Sir Peter Goodwill, Mr Robert Loughton, Tim 361 Economic Growth and Employment23 NOVEMBER 2011 Economic Growth and Employment 362

Luff, Peter Pawsey, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Vickers, Martin Lumley, Karen Penning, Mike Spencer, Mr Mark Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Macleod, Mary Penrose, John Stephenson, Andrew Walker, Mr Charles Main, Mrs Anne Percy, Andrew Stevenson, John Walker, Mr Robin Maude, rh Mr Francis Phillips, Stephen Stewart, Bob Wallace, Mr Ben Maynard, Paul Pickles, rh Mr Eric Stewart, Iain Ward, Mr David McCartney, Karl Pincher, Christopher Stewart, Rory Watkinson, Angela McIntosh, Miss Anne Prisk, Mr Mark Streeter, Mr Gary Weatherley, Mike McPartland, Stephen Pugh, John Stride, Mel Webb, Steve McVey, Esther Raab, Mr Dominic Stuart, Mr Graham Wharton, James Menzies, Mark Randall, rh Mr John Stunell, Andrew Wheeler, Heather Mercer, Patrick Reckless, Mark Sturdy, Julian White, Chris Metcalfe, Stephen Redwood, rh Mr John Swales, Ian Whittaker, Craig Miller, Maria Rees-Mogg, Jacob Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Whittingdale, Mr John Mills, Nigel Reevell, Simon Swinson, Jo Wiggin, Bill Milton, Anne Reid, Mr Alan Swire, rh Mr Hugo Willetts, rh Mr David Moore, rh Michael Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Syms, Mr Robert Williams, Roger Morgan, Nicky Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Williams, Stephen Morris, Anne Marie Robertson, Hugh Teather, Sarah Williamson, Gavin Morris, James Robertson, Mr Laurence Thurso, John Willott, Jenny Mosley, Stephen Rogerson, Dan Timpson, Mr Edward Wollaston, Dr Sarah Mowat, David Rosindell, Andrew Tomlinson, Justin Wright, Simon Mulholland, Greg Rudd, Amber Tredinnick, David Yeo, Mr Tim Mundell, rh David Ruffley, Mr David Truss, Elizabeth Young, rh Sir George Munt, Tessa Russell, Bob Turner, Mr Andrew Zahawi, Nadhim Murray, Sheryll Rutley, David Tyrie, Mr Andrew Tellers for the Noes: Murrison, Dr Andrew Sanders, Mr Adrian Uppal, Paul Jeremy Wright and Neill, Robert Sandys, Laura Vara, Mr Shailesh Mr Philip Dunne Newton, Sarah Scott, Mr Lee Nokes, Caroline Selous, Andrew Norman, Jesse Shapps, rh Grant Question accordingly negatived. Nuttall, Mr David Shelbrooke, Alec O’Brien, Mr Stephen Shepherd, Mr Richard Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Inow Offord, Mr Matthew Simpson, Mr Keith have to announce the result of a Division deferred from Ollerenshaw, Eric Skidmore, Chris a previous day. On the motion relating to Schengen Opperman, Guy Smith, Miss Chloe governance, the Ayes were 461 and the Noes were 23, so Ottaway, Richard Smith, Henry the Question was agreed to. Parish, Neil Smith, Julian Patel, Priti Smith, Sir Robert [The Division list is published at the end of today’s Paterson, rh Mr Owen Soubry, Anna debates.] 363 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 364

Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) Caroline Flint: I will make some progress because a lot of people want to speak in this debate. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Ihaveto At the outset, let me deal with a few of the myths that inform the House that Mr Speaker has selected the the Government have desperately resorted to peddling amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. Before in defence of their plans and that appear in their we start the debate, I also have to inform the House that motion today. The first and most bizarre is the idea that some 28 Members wish to participate, so we will need we were opposed to the introduction of feed-in tariffs some adherence to the time limits, which Members will and that somehow the Tories and the Liberal Democrats see is five minutes for Back-Bench speeches. introduced them. It takes some audacity to try to claim 4.16 pm credit for a scheme that was enacted, introduced and came into force under the previous Labour Government, Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): I beg to move, but to try to take credit for a scheme that they are That this House believes that solar power gives families, community scrapping really takes the biscuit. The record will show organisations and businesses greater control over their energy that while Labour began this growth industry, the bills and will help the UK meet its renewable energy targets and Government’s policies have all but killed it in its infancy. reduce carbon emissions; notes that since the creation of the feed-in tariffs scheme under the last administration, introduced The second myth is the Government’s claim that the with cross-party support, nearly 90,000 solar installations have reason they are cutting the tariff level is because they been completed in the UK and the number of people employed in are worried about energy bills. the solar industry has increased from 3,000 to 25,000; believes that the Government’s cuts to feed-in tariffs go too far, too fast, The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change will hit jobs and growth in the solar industry, undermine confidence in the Green Deal and deter investment in the wider green (Chris Huhne) rose— economy; regrets that the cuts to feed-in tariffs were announced with just six weeks’ notice and come into force before the consultation Caroline Flint: I will give way to the right hon. has even finished; further regrets that the Government’s plans Gentleman in a moment. This from a Government who would exclude nearly nine out of ten households from installing have cut help for more than 12 million pensioners with solar power under the feed-in tariffs scheme, will disproportionately their heating bills this winter and who have stood back hit social housing and community projects, and could affect and done absolutely nothing as customers’ bills have thousands of households which have already installed solar power; and calls on the Government urgently to withdraw the 12 December soared and energy companies’ profits have rocketed. 2011 deadline and bring forward more measured proposals that If the Secretary of State really wants to talk about guarantee the continued growth of the solar industry, put feed-in energy bills, I will tell him a thing or two. Let us start tariffs on a sustainable footing and are fair to the public. with how much the average annual energy bill costs Exactly a year ago today, in a speech to the Micropower under this Government—£1,345—and how much feed-in Council, the Minister of State, Department of Energy tariffs cost the public. From what the Government have and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Bexhill and said, one might think that this is costing us all hundreds Battle (Gregory Barker) lauded the feed-in tariff scheme. of pounds a year, but it is not. Is it perhaps £50 a year, He said: or £20, or even £10? No, the actual figure, according to “The coalition is absolutely committed to FITs…I have been the independent regulator, Ofgem, is less than £1 per really encouraged by the positive response that the FITs scheme household per year—less than £1 at a time when the has received since its introduction in April and hope this will average energy bill stands at £1,345, when pensioners continue. It’s still early days but early indications show that the are seeing their winter fuel payments cut by £50 or scheme is working well”. more, and when standard tariffs are up by £175 only Well, they say a week is a long time in politics, but a year since June. Labour and I will not take any lectures on is obviously an eternity. However, at least the Minister energy prices from this Government. is not on his own today, and we are glad to see the Secretary of State in his place. We all remember his Chris Huhne rose— famous energy summit, which went so well he decided to do a disappearing act. When his Department announced Caroline Flint: If the Secretary of State really wants a these cuts to feed-in tariffs, first, it tried to sneak them debate about this, let us start one. out in a written statement. Then, when I secured an urgent question, he sent his junior Minister to take the flack instead. Anyone would think he was trying to Chris Huhne: There was only ever one vote in the avoid me, or perhaps the Secretary of State is just very House of Commons on feed-in tariffs, in April 2008, good at not getting caught at the crime scene. Either when the right hon. Lady voted against. What has made way, his fingerprints are all over this one. her change her mind? Although talk of feed-in tariffs might sound technical, Caroline Flint: There was an amendment tabled by their impact could not be more real. Some 25,000 jobs the former Labour Member, Alan Simpson. My right are on the line. Thousands of businesses are at risk and hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm tens of thousands of people who have already installed Wicks) said at the time: solar could still lose out. Millions more have been excluded from having solar under the Government’s “I sympathise with, and fully support, people’s yearning for new rules and have been denied the chance to control appropriate incentives to encourage the faster take-up of microgeneration.”—[Official Report, 30 April 2008; Vol. 475, their energy bills. That is all because we have a Government c. 393.] who are out of touch, cutting too far and too fast, with no plans for jobs and growth. He told my hon. Friend and the House that he wanted to go away and look at what could be possible. On Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Will the right hon. 5 November in the same year, the Labour Government Lady give way? tabled an amendment in the House of Lords that paved 365 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 366 the way for the scheme that we have today. We do not has come across in the lobbying of Members on both need any lectures by the Secretary of State on who sides of the House. Not even the industry is calling for created the opportunity for feed-in tariffs in this country—it that. It wants planned, sensible reductions in tariffs. was the Labour Government. That is exactly what we would have done. When we introduced the scheme in 2010, we made it clear that Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Companies there would be a review in 2013, or earlier if needed, to such as Sharp in Wrexham have expanded and employed look at tariff levels and whether the scheme was delivering more people because they believed the Government on value for money. feed-in tariffs, only to find that they have pulled the Let us get serious. We have a cut of more than 50% plug. with just six weeks’ notice. Is that reasonable? Is that fair? Is that sustainable? I suggest that it is not. To make Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend makes a good point matters worse, the first that the industry heard of it was about the damage that has already been done to many when it was summoned to the Department after the businesses around the country. I will come to his point announcement had been made. about the impact not only on insulations but on Frankly, the only reason that feed-in tariffs need manufacturing in Great Britain. reform is because this Government have managed the We are happy to have a debate about why the scheme so badly since coming to power. It is no good Government are cutting help for pensioners this winter, blaming us. Before the election, Conservative and Liberal when they need it more than ever, and about why this Democrat Members accused us of lacking ambition. Government have stood back and allowed the big six to They said that what we set up did not go far enough. increase their profit margins to record levels while energy The Conservative party said that feed-in tariffs should bills have soared, but let us also have a debate about be paid to solar installed before April 2010 and that it why this Government have failed to stand up to vested would raise the capacity threshold for qualifying schemes interests in the energy industry and failed to reform our from 5 MW to 10 MW. The position of the Liberal market. Democrats was also clear. Far from saying that our Let us not pretend that the Government’s approach scheme was too generous, they wanted it to be more to today’s debate is about some new-found concern for generous. Their spokesman at the time, the right hon. bill payers. However much Ministers like to claim feed-in Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon tariffs cost the public, when 25,000 people lose their Hughes), said: jobs—[Interruption.] Government Members might not “Labour’s plans are too little too late.” like to hear this, but people may be laid off this I tried to speak to him on Monday to confirm that that Christmas as a result of an ill-thought-through strategy. was still his position, but he spurned my advances. We When 25,000 people lose their jobs, when the Treasury wait to see whether he will join us in the Lobby this loses the taxes and national insurance they pay, and evening. when we have to pay out unemployment benefit, the costs will be a lot higher. This Government would The fourth myth is that if we did not implement the rather pay people to be on the dole than support an Government’s cuts, solar power would be available only industry of the future. to the lucky few. However, it is the Secretary of State’s cuts that will exclude nearly nine out of 10 households Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I think we all accept from having solar power. It is his cuts that will prevent that this is an extremely difficult issue to resolve. Given families living in social housing from having solar power. that the right hon. Lady is advancing the case that the It is his cuts that will once again make solar power the Government are making the wrong decision, by how preserve of the wealthy few. much is she prepared to see bills rise in order to sustain the tariff at the current level and in line with the level of Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): Perhaps my right hon. income for people with solar PV? Friend might like to tell Members who do not have any of these companies in their constituency or who do not Caroline Flint: I respect the fact that the hon. Gentleman understand this issue that they might like to walk five has probably raised concerns about how his coalition minutes from here across Westminster bridge and along Ministers have approached this issue. As I said, according Lower Marsh to visit Solar Century in my constituency. to Ofgem, we are talking about less than £1 on people’s A large number of people there will be out of work annual bills. What we said in our urgent question and precisely because of what the Government are doing. have proposed in the motion is that we need to work to see how we can change the scheme as it moves forward, Caroline Flint: I was pleased to take the opportunity but in a sustainable way. The problem is that we have to go to Solar Century on Monday with my right hon. not had a chance to have this debate because the hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition. It was very similar Gentleman’s Ministers, in his Government, have chosen to the firm that I visited in Glasgow the other week with to set a cut-off date of 12 December even though they my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton are still consulting until 23 December. When answering West (Tom Greatrex). It is a company that employs the questions about how we have got to where we are young graduate engineers and other skilled people. It today, they have more to answer for than us. has links with small businesses and contractors around Myth No. 3 is that the scheme would run out of the country, including installers and fitters. Some people money if it carried on as it is. In the past few weeks, I who had been working on the digital switchover have have spoken to a lot of people in the solar industry. I been trained up to do this work. There is a chain of have yet to find a single person who argues that the despair and destruction throughout our country as a scheme should carry on unchanged. I am sure that that result of these proposals. 367 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 368

Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Will my right industry and only after installation levels reached a hon. Friend expand on that point, because this proposal fixed benchmark: here the Government have announced has affected not only the solar industry, but general a cut of more than 50%, with no proper consultation confidence in the Government’s handling of the renewables and only six weeks’ notice, which will take our solar sector? I spent an interesting evening yesterday speaking tariff below that of Germany. in depth with farmers who are concerned about the None of the Government’s excuses will wash, because handling of this matter and about its impact on confidence the truth is that their cuts to the feed-in tariff for solar in the anaerobic digestion sector, the biomass sector power are a triple whammy. They are bad for jobs and and so on. They do not trust this Government any more growth, bad for the public and bad for the environment. and they never will. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Caroline Flint: That is an important point. Some Climate Change (Gregory Barker): The right hon. Lady people say to me, “Caroline, this is all just about solar.” is right to say that the German Government are reducing I say, “No it isn’t. It is actually about confidence, about the tariff by a much smaller amount. In January they the direction of travel and about being able to rely on are reducing it by about 15%, but they are reducing it to the goalposts not being moved on a whim to effect some ¤0.24, which is almost exactly equivalent to the 21p crazy policy dreamed up by these coalition Ministers.” tariff that the Government propose. They are reducing What Ministers are doing is destroying this growing the tariff to the same level as ours. industry. Interestingly, some of the social housing projects that Caroline Flint: Dearie me! The Germans have been have been brought to my attention wanted to put solar planning how to staircase down their tariffs for years. panels on the roofs of some of their properties, but they They have a mature industry that is the world leader. were also looking to use some of the gain from the tariff We are not in that ballpark. That is why we must ensure for other energy efficiency schemes, so the tariff would that we do not strangle our industry is strangled at also have provided benefits beyond using solar power. birth. On Monday Solar Century brought it to my attention The cuts are bad for jobs and growth, bad for the that it knew of a number of farmers who were interested public and bad for the environment. When growth is in establishing solar. They were not thinking of solar flatlining and unemployment rising, solar is one industry farms, which caused some concern last year; they just that is growing and creating jobs. When the previous wanted to generate energy to run their farms. They are Government introduced feed-in tariffs, just 3,000 people now rethinking and cancelling their plans. That is not were working in 450 firms; today more than 25,000 good enough. people work in 3,000 companies. By 2020, as many as 360,000 people could be working in solar—but not if Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): The mixed energy the Government’s cuts go ahead. Be in no doubt that economy will include all renewables. Is it sensible or the Government’s current plans will strangle the solar sustainable to subsidise solar at twice the rate of offshore industry and cost thousands, if not tens of thousands, wind? We have lacked an energy strategy for 13 years. of jobs. At least we have now got ourselves in gear and there is a A survey conducted by the Renewable Energy clear path ahead. Association and the Solar Trade Association earlier this month forecast in excess of 10,000 job losses. Fifty-seven Caroline Flint: We are talking about things that are per cent. of companies anticipate having to lay off at on totally different scales. Solar is pretty much for small least half their current staff, a third are worried that businesses and communities. Of course we want a diverse their business will be forced to close altogether, and mix, but the solar industry in our country—I will come fewer than one in six are confident that they can weather to myth No. 5 in a moment—is 3% the size of Germany’s. the changes. That is the reality. Our industry is a baby in terms of what we need for the future and what we need from other energy sources. The John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): Is the Opposition will work consensually to tackle climate Minister not missing the point about the comparison change and reduce our carbon emissions, but we cannot with Germany? The purpose of the tariffs in this country stand by when idiotic proposals are made that will is to build up our industry and get it up and running, strangle a growing industry at birth. That is just not but cuts on this scale at this pace risk throwing the good enough. industry into reverse. Those production and new design skills that my right hon. Friend mentioned will be lost at Several hon. Members rose— a time when the Government should be helping to cut fuel bills for householders and cut the country’s reliance Caroline Flint: I shall make a little more progress on fossil fuels. before giving way. Myth No. 5 is the idea that the Government’s plans Caroline Flint: I can add nothing to my right hon. are just like what has happened in Germany. Nothing Friend’s comments, except to say that there is another could be further from the truth. The German Government organisation that agrees with him—the CBI. invested ¤6.5 billion in solar last year; we are investing The Government claim, on page 2 of their impact £860 million over four years. Germany has installed half assessment, that they can slash the solar industry by the solar panels in the world and supports 250,000 jobs anything between 70% and 95% and still, as page 26 in solar; we have installed just 90,000 panels and have claims, increase the number of people working in it by only one tenth of the jobs. This year the tariff for solar up to 10,000. As someone I met at the lobby of Parliament power in Germany was cut by 15%, in agreement with yesterday put it, the Government may think that they 369 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 370 can get full employment by shrinking the economy, but confidence in a Government who are so short-sighted month after month we see that their plans are hurting that with just six weeks’ notice they are killing off a but not working. We knew that the Government were flagship policy that has cross-party support? out of touch, but today we see that they have lost the plot. Gregory Barker: Before the right hon. Lady scaremongers any further, may I confirm that I spoke to the European Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): I am grateful to head of sales at Sharp yesterday, and it has no plans to the right hon. Lady for eventually giving way. It was she close its UK plant? It remains an important centre of who said only one month ago: European manufacturing. “The Government do not understand the reality for families who struggle to pay the bills at the end of the month”.—[Official Caroline Flint: Such companies are worried about the Report, 19 October 2011; Vol. 533, c. 937.] policies on the table, and they will be waiting with bated Does she agree that today’s debate is not about whether breath to see what happens. There are containers full of we support solar power, which we are all in favour of, panels on our docksides all round the country not being but about the cost of the subsidies for solar—a small-scale used because sales orders are being affected by the industry—which will cost families about £26 a month Government’s policies. extra by 2020? Would that not be an unreasonable cost Since we introduced feed-in tariffs nearly 90,000 families on hard-pressed families? have benefited. That has helped those who want to do Caroline Flint: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman the right thing and green their homes, while also trying has neither read his brief nor sought other views. Ofgem, to protect themselves from soaring energy bills. However, the independent regulator, made it absolutely clear that under the Government’s plans nearly nine out of 10 the feed-in tariffs cost less than £1 a year per household. households in England will be excluded from solar The bigger problem is how prices have been put up power and denied the chance to get just a little more while energy companies are making exorbitant profits, control over their energy bills. That is because properties and while this Government are cutting the support will be eligible for feed-in tariffs only if they have a available to people this winter. That is a price debate minimum energy performance rating of C or above. that I would like to have. The comments of the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) imply that Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): he is in favour of those businesses going under, of social Will the right hon. Lady give way? housing not having solar panels, and of this industry not even getting out of the cradle. That is rich coming Caroline Flint: No, I will not give way. from a party that prides itself on being the small business However, the most recent estimate showed that 86% champion. of properties in England had an energy efficiency rating of D or below. Those households will be excluded from Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): Does my right hon. solar power. The Government’s plans are unfair, too, Friend agree with a constituent of mine, Mr Robert not least because they could hit people who have already Borrill, who described the Government’s decision as installed solar power. In fact, the cuts could hit people devastating, especially given that people have entered who installed solar power before the Government even into commitments? Even those who have entered into announced the changes. That is the problem with a financial commitments now will be penalised because six-week deadline, when it takes up to seven weeks to of the six-week period. Surely, at the very least, the get a solar installation on the FITs register. Those Government should consider that. people are going to lose out. In answer to a parliamentary question the Minister of State, the hon. Member for Caroline Flint: I absolutely agree, and I will come to Bexhill and Battle, said: that point later, because it is a travesty that the cut-off “We recognise though that some prospective FITs generators date has been set two weeks before the consultation who have incurred or committed expenditure may not be able to finishes. complete their installations and submit their applications for FITs before the proposed reference date.”—[Official Report, Several hon. Members rose— 10 November 2011; Vol. 535, c. 409W.] Caroline Flint: I want to make some progress, because What the Minister calls “prospective FITs generators” I am conscious of time and lots of people want to are people—thousands of them—who have already installed speak. solar, but not yet registered. They will be caught up in a For every job in the solar industry, many more in the mess entirely of the Government’s making. They include, supply chain are also at risk. According to the Minister’s for example, the pensioners who wrote to me telling me colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation that they had invested their savings in solar power to try and Skills, the solar industry and its supply chain employ to get their heating bills down and give themselves a about 39,000 people and resulted in nearly £5 billion of little income in their retirement. sales last year. All of that is in jeopardy. Sharp Solar, By cutting the tariff by an additional 20% for councils, which was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member housing associations and community groups, on top of for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) and which is in the the 50% cut, the Government’s changes will all but end constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham solar power for social housing. Across the country, (Ian Lucas), currently employs about 500 people at its from Cambridge to Wrexham, Torbay to Leeds, Reading plant manufacturing solar panels. It is now warning to Haringey, councils are already scrapping their solar that because of these cuts it is reviewing its presence in plans; and last week it happened in Doncaster, too. As a the UK, putting hundreds of jobs on the line. Given result, those councils are forgoing funds that they could that we need to invest up to £200 billion in our energy have invested—and that they planned to invest—in infrastructure in the next 10 years, how can anyone have other energy efficiency measures for their tenants. 371 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 372

[Caroline Flint] previous administration did not draw on the experiences of Germany in setting a sustainable and predictable digression of tariffs; All Governments get accused of not listening, but it further notes that failing to act could add £26 to the domestic takes a special kind of arrogance—not to mention a electricity bill of all consumers in 2020 including the 5.5 million people left in fuel poverty by the previous administration; further healthy dose of incompetence—to launch a consultation regrets that the previous administration did not introduce a that is half the normal length and closes after the cuts community tariff; believes that the Government is right to bring on which it is consulting come into force. What happens the tariff levels back in line with the rates of return envisaged; when the consultation closes on 23 December and all acknowledges that it is right to link support under feed-in tariffs the responses tell the Government that their cuts go too to energy efficiency and the Green Deal ensuring the most cost-effective far, too fast, and will kill the solar industry? What carbon abatement measures are introduced first; supports a happens to all the projects that have already been scaled consultation on the introduction of a community tariff; and further believes that the Government is putting feed-in tariffs on a back or scrapped altogether? What happens to all the long-term, fair and sustainable footing.” families who have already decided to cancel their solar installation? What happens to all the firms that have We find ourselves here to debate a motion that would had to lay off their staff—to all the engineers, technicians add at least £26 to an average consumer bill—that is, if and installation teams who have lost their jobs before we were to leave the scheme unchanged. The estimates Christmas? What happens to them? What all this says is are constantly being revised, and the figure may well that the Government do not care what anybody thinks; reach as high as £80 on the current trajectory. The and what it shows is that they are completely out of proposal would give bumper profits to solar companies touch. and do little to tackle climate change. There seems to be no awareness whatever on the part of the right hon. When the economy is flatlining, unemployment is Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) or other rising and even the Prime Minister admits that his plan Opposition Members that those are real costs, being is failing, what sort of Government choose to kill an imposed on real people, who will be unable to spend the industry that is growing and creating jobs? When energy money on other goods and services as a result. Every prices are at record levels and millions of families are corner shop across the length and breadth of the land struggling with their bills, what sort of Government would be affected if disposable incomes were hit in that choose to exclude nine out of 10 households and everyone way. Some of the people who are in the greatest fuel in social housing from installing solar to cut their bills? poverty—about whom Labour Members are meant to When Ministers are flying halfway around the world to be most concerned—will be most affected by these Durban next week to try and reach an agreement on increases. climate change, what sort of Government choose to cut back on policies that will increase our supply of renewable Feed-in tariffs have been successful. They have helped energy and reduce our carbon emissions? many people produce green energy locally, which is why, before we were coalition partners, Liberal Democrats From the CBI, the Mayor of London and the man and Conservatives supported their introduction. Solar who installed the Prime Minister’s solar panels, all the energy has been particularly popular, with more than way to the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Friends of the 140,000 homes now generating some of their own electricity. Earth, everyone is backing our campaign and telling the Unfortunately, this promising scheme was built on shaky Government that they have got this badly wrong. Today economic foundations. In setting the returns, the previous we have come to a crossroads. Much damage has already Government completely underestimated the potential been done. Many projects have been ditched. Confidence for cost reductions in the sector. They assumed that has been dented, with future investment possibly lost solar panels would cost just 9% less to install in 2012 for good. However, we can step back from the brink. We than they would in 2013. As we heard from the right can put feed-in tariffs on a sustainable footing, in a way hon. Member for Don Valley, Labour did not propose that is fair to the public and which secures the future of to review this matter before 2013. In fact, costs are one of our brightest industries. Today I call on all hon. falling and falling fast—at least 30% since the scheme Members to support our motion—to tell the Government started. The result is that returns on solar photovoltaic to scrap their 12 December deadline, to stand up for an investments are double what was originally envisaged. industry that is growing and creating jobs, and to stand up for people who want to do the right thing and protect themselves from rising bills. I commend this Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): What would the motion to the House. Secretary of State say to a company in my constituency, Sun Gift Solar—one of many in Exeter and the south-west that has contacted me—which clearly told me that its 4.44 pm customers do not have any trust in what it calls this The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change “erratic and inconsistent Government” whose actions (Chris Huhne): I beg to move an amendment, to leave have already immeasurably damaged confidence in this out from “House” to the end of the Question and add: industry and will put tens of thousands of people back “notes that the previous administration only introduced a feed-in on benefits? tariffs scheme following pressure from Liberal Democrat and Conservative hon. Members; further notes that during the period Chris Huhne: I do not accept that at all. I will come up to October 2011 over 120,000 UK solar installations had been on to some of the flaws in the original design of the completed; further notes that this is three times the deployment scheme. I think it is regrettable that the Leader of the expected by the previous administration; recognises that no Opposition is not in his place alongside the right hon. commercial-scale solar PV schemes were expected by the previous administration; further notes that the cost of PV panels has fallen Lady to defend the scheme that he introduced. I am by at least 30 per cent. since the current tariff was introduced and going to be very clear—I am not going to pull my that the previous administration set the tariff levels for solar PV punches—about the mistakes made by the right hon. to deliver a five per cent. index-linked return; regrets that the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) when 373 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 374 he was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate the support of the right hon. Member for Doncaster Change and this scheme was introduced. I will deal North, who is not prepared to stand up here and defend precisely with that. what he did when he introduced this scheme. The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) The fact is that these returns are funded by consumers has just mentioned an investor in his constituency, so let through their energy bills, and they are unsustainable. If me quote another—Martin Bleasby, the business we allowed them to continue unchecked, they would development manager of Driffield-based Dodds Solar burn through the entire budget in a matter of months. If who said: we do not act now, the entire feed-in tariffs budget for “It was clear something had to happen. It was never supposed the current spending review period will be fully committed to be a get-rich-quick scheme. The way things were going, the by next spring. budget was going to run out in a few months. Now we can look at building a business which is sustainable for years to come.” Several hon. Members rose— Chris Huhne: Let me make this point, and then I will Bob Russell rose— give way to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) rose— With the current tariffs, each extra installation means Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab) rose— that two fewer installations can be funded at the tariff levels. Every time the right hon. Lady or other Opposition Chris Huhne: I happily give way to my hon. Friend Members say that we should not act—that we should the Member for Colchester (Bob Russell). defer dealing with the mistakes Labour made in introducing the scheme—they are condemning the industry to less Bob Russell: My right hon. Friend is right to draw growth than it would otherwise enjoy. attention to the fact that the scheme is flawed. That is Caroline Lucas: I am frustrated by the Secretary of acknowledged. Does he agree, however, that where a State’s implication that Opposition Members do not social housing scheme or a community scheme has accept that the tariffs must come down, as of course already commenced the process and panels are being they must. Does he accept that six months ago the solar installed almost as we speak, contracts should be allowed industry itself asked for them to be reduced by 25%? to roll even if they go beyond 12 December? Where the The reason for the chaos we are experiencing is the contract has already started, I say let it roll to completion. incompetence of this Government. Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend makes an important Chris Huhne: I absolutely do not accept that. Not a point. I have to say that since we announced this single solar installer to whom I have spoken does not consultation I have received e-mails, as have a number say that tariffs must fall, and on that point I entirely of other hon. Members, from solar companies offering agree, but that was not the case before. This is another to install solar panels before the 12 December deadline. of the key cock-ups made by the Leader of the Opposition That does not suggest to me that we left inadequate when he was doing the job that I am now doing. He time before the reference period. failed to learn from the experience of Germany, which was very clear: those who introduce a scheme involving Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab) rose— solar feed-in tariffs must introduce an automatic digression to take account of the real world. But of course Opposition Sheila Gilmore rose— Members are not very familiar or comfortable with the real world of business. The fact is that there should have Caroline Flint rose— been a reduction in the tariffs as a matter of automaticity. Chris Huhne: Let me come back to the point my hon. Several hon. Members rose— Friend made about social schemes and social housing, about which I care. Sadly, however, another design flaw Chris Huhne: I will give way to the right hon. Member that emerged from the inception of this scheme—again, for Don Valley. the right hon. Member for Doncaster North was responsible Caroline Flint: If there was a provision for communities for it—was that it did not have the ability to recognise to take advantage of solar power, why are so many local social housing or social schemes. If we wanted a special authorities and housing associations cancelling projects? scheme to help non-profit-making companies, we would As a result of the right hon. Gentleman’s initiative, not have the legal basis for achieving it. 100,000 social homes will not have solar power. Did not the Labour Government set in train a review to be Caroline Flint rose— completed by 2013, implicit in which was the need for a “staircasing down” of the tariff to achieve value for Sheila Gilmore rose— money? Caroline Lucas rose— Chris Huhne: The right hon. Lady makes a good and serious point, which returns me to what I was saying Chris Huhne: Opposition Members bounce up and before. We need to consider, and consult on, whether down protesting about this issue, but they had the there should be a separate tariff for social schemes. opportunity when they were in government to achieve Many social housing providers offer their tenants free this—and they did not do it. It is another one of the electricity to encourage take-up—free electricity that cock-ups for which, frankly, the Leader of the Opposition has been rising in value because of the rise in world gas was responsible in designing this scheme. I feel for the prices and the rise in UK electricity prices. That is an right hon. Member for Don Valley as she does not have important part of the rate of return. If providers give 375 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 376

[Chris Huhne] installations were running at about 2,000 to 3,000 a week, rather than the recent rate of 9,000 or so a all that to their tenants, the amount that is left from the month, and would that figure not have grown exponentially feed-in tariff to compensate for their financing costs over time? will be less. However, we are not legally able to provide a separate tariff, because the Labour party did not implement Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend is correct. I wish the such an arrangement when it was in government. I House had facilities to show a PowerPoint presentation regret that, because it would have given us some flexibility. at this point, as I am now holding up a chart showing what has been happening with the scheme. The rising Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I have been curve represents the installation rate increase. The lobbied by a constituent, Jeremy Anson, who works for Opposition cite the Ofgem figure of £1, but that applies a photovoltaic providing company. He fully accepts the down in the foothills of the curve, and we are dealing need for a substantial reduction, but says that while the with a rather different real world today. Installed capacity industry could cope with a reduction of 30%, he would has doubled since August, and has increased by three struggle with 50%. We wonder whether a phased or times since June and by tenfold since the start of the gradual reduction would be possible, given that the year. The right hon. Member for Don Valley is laughing; number of orders received by his firm has fallen from a she has obviously had no experience of attempting to average of 15 a month to zero after 12 December. manage a budget, because if she had, she would not be laughing at all. This adds real costs to the electricity Chris Huhne: I shall explain what we are trying to do bills of real people—people the Opposition claim to later in my speech, but let me reassure my hon. Friend represent. that the returns that the new scheme will provide—if, indeed, we proceed with it following what is a genuine consultation—will be very similar to the returns that Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): Will were originally intended when the scheme was announced the Secretary of State provide the budget figures for the by the Leader of the Opposition in April 2010. As with feed-in tariffs in the levy envelope up to 2015, along some of the Opposition’s other achievements, the intention with the central analysis undertaken by his Department was right but the execution was definitely not, so it falls of how far over that budget we would be under present to this Government to attempt to clear up the mess. arrangements? Will he also explain the headroom his Department has for putting things right over that period, We want to secure the continued success of feed-in and compare that with how far over the budget his tariffs through sustainable growth, rather than boom Department is according to its central impact assessments? and bust. That is why we are consulting on new tariffs for solar PV installations. As the climate change Minister, Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman is my neighbour my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle in south Hampshire, so I was delighted to give way to (Gregory Barker), just pointed out to the House, they him, and I wish we were able to address that fine are now in line with those being offered in Germany. If granularity of detail, as he suggests. However, I shall the former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member place the graph I have been showing in the Library so for Doncaster North, had bothered to find out how the that everybody can look at it. The situation is moving so Germans operated this scheme, we would never have swiftly that projections based on the current week’s been in this position in the first place. figures would look rather more alarming than those for Andrew Percy rose— last week or the week before that. The real world is changing exceptionally rapidly. The impact assessment Chris Huhne: Before I give way again, let me address gives a clear statement of where we were at the point this key point. To wait any longer would put at risk the when the impact assessment was made. At that point, entire feed-in tariff scheme. Anything that slows this the figure was £26 on average energy bills for 2020 and process will substantially increase the risk that the scheme the latest estimate is now up to £80—and at the high will run out of money. Each week of delay in changing end of that if there is substantial growth. That takes me the tariffs leads to additional annual subsidy costs of back to the point that if we do not deal with the issue £4 million, but this is a 25-year scheme, and the figure quickly, we are not saving the industry, as the Opposition over the spending review period is £14 million, or would like us to believe, but writing the death warrant £87 million to £110 million over the 25-year tariff for it. There would be a sudden cataclysmic fall in lifetime. A very small delay in tackling this problem will demand. therefore result in substantial costs for electricity consumers over a 25-year period. Several hon. Members rose— My experience tells me that when we face such a problem, we should not follow the advice of the right Chris Huhne: I will give way to the right hon. Member hon. Member for Don Valley and attempt to run away for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock), who is a from it by pretending it does not exist. Instead, we must former Minister in this area and whose expertise is well grapple with this problem, and deal with it quickly so known. the scheme can be put on a sustainable basis that will give the industry the opportunity to grow and prosper. Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): May I reiterate what was said by my right hon. Friend the Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): This is a strange Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), who speaks debate, as the Opposition seem to be on the side of big from our Front Bench? It is not about the fact the tariffs business, while we are on the side of the squeezed are being reduced but the way in which it is being done. middle. Does the Secretary of State agree that the £1 Peabody housing association, which works in my figure Ofgem cited was for back in the summer when constituency, was going to have installed 6 MW of 377 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 378 provision by March of next year and the programme thrown out by the fact that we have had a dramatic fall has been decimated. The Minister of State has said that in the costs of solar panels in the past 18 months. it can get ahead with a 5% return but it was planning—and Unfortunately, the scheme introduced by the previous had received—a 7.5% return and its borrowing costs are Labour Government did not have the automatic reduction 5.3%. It cannot be done. The Secretary of State must that it should have done. change his mind. At this point, I shall give way to my very patient and hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Chris Huhne: I listen to what the right hon. Lady says, Percy). but the reality is that the scheme takes us back to the rate of return when the scheme was introduced by the Andrew Percy: I am almost too tired to stand up previous Government in April 2010. It was appropriate now, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I thank the Secretary of then and all we are doing is taking account of what has State for giving way. It is precisely because of the happened in the real world, where there has been a very arguments he has outlined that the Labour Government dramatic reduction in the cost. I have yet to meet a in New South Wales in Australia cut their tariff by two single manager of a single scheme who has persuaded thirds. me that they will lose money by proceeding with their scheme. They might make less money than they previously I want to put a question to the Secretary of State on planned—that occasionally arises—but the business of behalf of my constituents at Alexander Electrical Services. my Department is not to provide extra rate support They support change and have said very clearly that grants to local councils but to ensure that we have a they accept there has to be change, but one thing they successful renewable energy scheme and that we get want from the Secretary of State is more of an explanation solar panels out there. It is not a back-door way of about the December cut-off date. funding extra support. Chris Huhne: I come back to the point that if we had Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I agree not acted quickly on this we would have had a situation with everything my right hon. Friend is saying, but in which every installation at the old tariff rate would surely the problem is that all the schemes that subsidise have meant two fewer installations at the new tariff rate. renewable energy tend to distort the market and have That would have meant massively over-subsidising when perverse consequences, and therefore perhaps the Duke we could have got the deployment at the new tariff rate. of Edinburgh had a point over the weekend. There is no doubt about that. We have had many e-mails from reliable, long-standing solar installers who Chris Huhne: The Duke of Edinburgh was not, I recognise that the scheme needed to be changed. They— think, talking about solar panels, and I dread to think particularly the reliable installers—want it to be put on what his views are on them. He certainly made his views a sustainable basis that will give them the ability to grow on wind pretty clear. I do not agree with my hon. Friend sustainably. on the issue of distortions to the market because, curiously, solar photovoltaics are a clear example of a highly Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) successful world market. The right hon. Member for (SNP): It is the rate of change that is concerning people, Don Valley was talking about Sharp Solar as though it particularly in rural areas. A small domestic development was dependent on the UK, but more than three quarters of some constituents of mine would have been under of the production in Wrexham goes overseas to the rest threat had they not managed to make the cut-off. They of Europe. We have already heard that the funding is are now looking for retrospective planning permission. exactly in line with that in Germany. The Chinese are Will the Minister look again at the situation, particularly exporting dramatic amounts of solar panels and what is in rural areas where getting basic parts can be a problem? fascinating, exciting and positive about the industry is Will he give more time before he introduces this draconian the fact that in the long run— cut-off rate in rural areas?

Andrew Percy rose— Chris Huhne: I have to say that, to some extent, I rest my case in that regard. A substantial scheme that requires Chris Huhne: I shall give way to my hon. Friend, who planning permission in the Western Isles will clearly be has been very patient. one for which, arguably, the solar yield will be very The key point I want to make, which was drawn to substantial. I do not know whether that is the case, but I my attention by the US Energy Secretary Steve Chu, is come back to the point that if we do not deal with this that almost uniquely among the renewable energy forms, issue we will deprive the industry of future growth solar panels are reducing in price by an average of 6% a prospects. The more we pay out at the higher rate the year. As a result of that technological trend, which is a less we pay out at the lower rate. That is why we bit like the fall in the cost of computer memory that proposed the date of 12 December—to give well-advanced many of us will be familiar with, this area will have projects six clear weeks in which to finalise and thus enormous potential in the long run. The argument for receive the current tariffs. We are consulting on this and putting the industry on a more sustainable basis so that we are open-minded about it. Hon. Members should it can grow solidly and reliably with a tariff that reflects remember that schemes after that reference date will the fall in the underlying costs means that we will be in a continue to receive the old tariff all the way through to position, when the costs of solar fall to grid parity, to April—only then will they go on to the new tariff. We make major and substantial increases in solar installation. are seeking views on this and on our other proposals, I do not agree with my hon. Friend the Member for including the one to strengthen the link between FITs, Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) that this is a waste of time. energy efficiency and a new multi-installation tariff The world market is working, but the scheme has been frame. 379 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 380

Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): increasing the share of locally generated renewables is a Will the Secretary of State give way? good thing, not just for our carbon reduction targets, but for households and communities. However, spending Chris Huhne: I must make a bit more progress. the best part of £1 billion of public money to support We are also considering whether more could be done soaring profits for one part of the energy sector is not to enable genuine community projects to benefit fully the way to build a lasting low-carbon economy. It will from FITs. We will provide more detail on that in the not deliver more renewable energy or help more households. second consultation on the comprehensive review. As that public money comes directly from the purses of bill payers, including people in fuel poverty, it is not the Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): On that point, can fairest way either. Many Members will have received the Secretary of State, first, give us a reassurance that letters from companies offering solar PV. Many of local authority social housing, or at least social housing, those letters are written in defence of the industry, but will be included in that? Secondly, if there are problems they are guided by a passion, quite rightly, for clean with the budget, perhaps he could get some money from green energy as well as a stronger bottom line. the nuclear budget. I am as disappointed as many of my constituents that the feed-in tariff scheme was not properly set up. To Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend is mistaken if he believes paraphrase the right hon. Member for Don Valley, we that there is public subsidy in the nuclear budget. Nuclear would not have to cut so far or so fast if the policy had power will be built without public subsidy, and I believe been properly costed to begin with. A little more foresight that position is shared across the House. I assure him, then would have gone a long way now. I have described from the Dispatch Box as someone who is a very clear the mistakes that were made by my predecessor in guardian, that, as we are spending £2 billion clearing up failing to take into account what was happening in the the nuclear industry mess from previous generations, marketplace, but another mess that we had to clear up there is someone here who has a very strong incentive to after the Labour Government left office was the business- make sure that that never happens again. scale scheme, which was going off like a rocket. We had On social housing, I have already said that we will to deal with that earlier this year because, under the consult on whether it is appropriate to have a separate proposals introduced by the Labour Government, it tariff for genuine community projects. Those who have was assumed that businesses were too stupid to respond already installed solar PV and who are registered for to a substantial real return and would not install any feed-in tariffs will not be affected. The right hon. Member solar PV for three years. If we had not acted, half of for Don Valley suggested that they might be but that is Devon and Cornwall would have been under PV panels. completely incorrect and is scaremongering. I can totally reassure anyone that this approach is consistent with Mr Russell Brown: Will the Secretary of State say our long-standing principle in the House of not making something about remote rural areas, because I have a retrospective changes. We have to strike a delicate balance constituent who has had solar panels installed but, between acting quickly, for the reasons that I have because of her remote location, she has to pay a further given, and allowing people to finish work that is well £21,000 for an off-grid connection? There is absolutely under way.That means enabling well-progressed projects— no way in which her supplier can connect her before [Interruption.] 12 December. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. May I inform the House that 29 Members have submitted a Chris Huhne: By all means, the hon. Gentleman request to speak in the debate? We will clearly not be should give us the details of exactly that sort of issue, able to hear from everyone, but if there are constant which we will consider as part of the consultation. interventions, we will hear from even fewer Members However, his constituent might have been better served than anticipated. if there was a proper energy efficiency audit of her home so that she could make substantial energy savings Chris Huhne: I will take some more interventions beforehand. with your forgiveness, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I will try to make progress too. John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): You A consultation is under way, and we will consider don’t know what his constituent did. carefully all the representations that are made, including on the proposed reference date and how best to implement Chris Huhne: We do not, but we do know that under an energy efficiency requirement. It is not the case, for the scheme promoting solar PVs or the scheme that was example, that large numbers of people will be excluded, launched by the Labour Government in April 2010, because it is possible to insist onaCrating. Many there was a link to energy efficiency. people could easily be upgraded toaCrating, which would increase the market enormously. Furthermore, we could make solar panels available to anyone who is John Robertson: You’re making it up. prepared to take part in the green deal when it is launched and which, of course, is cost-free to the household. Chris Huhne: Opposition Members are getting terribly We will look at that, and we will announce our final shirty about this, but there was a link to energy efficiency intentions early in the new year. Our proposal is that the and that link was abolished with the introduction of the revised tariffs should take effect from 1 April 2012. scheme by the right hon. Member for Doncaster North, The decision to consult on revised tariffs and the the Leader of the Opposition, when he was the Secretary proposed reference date was not taken lightly. I am sure of State for Energy and Climate Change in April 2010. that Members from all parts of the House agree that We need to deal with that. 381 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 382

There are more efficient ways to clean our energy By the way, the returns still compare favourably with supplies and grow our green industries than using the returns intended when the scheme was set up. Our consumers’ energy bills to support one industry at well proposals are the difference between windfall profits over the market rate. If we did nothing, by 2014-15 from double-digit returns and a reasonable return— feed-in tariffs for solar PV would cost consumers about double-digit returns that would bring into the industry £1 billion a year. If we are to succeed in building a all sorts of curious people who never had any previous low-carbon economy, we must make sure that we show interest in it and who were operating tax avoidance people that we are committed to value for money. schemes to raise money to invest in the industry. The It is precisely because this Government are committed scheme had been growing dangerously unbalanced. We to a sustainable, long-term future for clean energy that are working to put it back on an even keel. I do not we propose revising tariffs now. Encouraging a minority accept that putting right the feed-in tariffs scheme of companies to feast on bumper profits for six months, undermines confidence, for the reasons that I have swallowing up the entire feed-in tariff budget for a given. four-year period, would be the acme of short-termism. Aside those from those such as electricians and scaffolders It is worth keeping things in perspective. who have branched out into solar PV installation alongside other employment, our analysis suggests that the number Andrew Bridgen: Will the Secretary of State explain of full-time equivalent jobs in the solar industry is to the House what he believes the Labour Government between 8,000 and 14,000. We do not wish to see a meant when they said in a consultation document on single company stop trading or a single job lost, but we feed-in tariffs that they did not expect to lower the tariff cannot continue to prop up unreasonable profits with levels for new projects over the years? Given that, does consumer cash. Jobs created by a bubble of excessive he not detect more than a whiff of hypocrisy in the returns and paid for by consumer energy bills are simply comments from the Opposition Front Bench? unsustainable. Companies that have prepared themselves accordingly are likely to continue. As I have said, I have Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend makes a good point. If not come across a single person in the industry who the previous Government had bothered to find out how contests the fact that we needed to act, although we did well-managed feed-in tariffs are run in countries such as not hear that loud and clear before we acted, contrary Germany, they would have built in an automatic system to what various Opposition Members have said. Companies which brought the tariffs down in line with the fall in that were going all out with installations for the next costs, but they did not. The result was a massive over- few months with no plans beyond that will be in a compensation. position that is only slightly different from what would otherwise have been the case. Contrary to the claims that we have heard from the Opposition, we are not shutting down an industry, which is what would happen if the money ran out. The Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): The Secretary of revised tariffs will provide inflation-proofed returns for State makes a compelling case for the need for change, 25 years of around 5%. That remains competitive with but will he consider a concession for those businesses other investment opportunities. A householder would that have already paid a deposit? Pennywell farm in my still be able to get a 4.5% real post-tax return. This constituency aims to be the first carbon-neutral tourist compares well, for example, with the 0.5% post-tax real attraction in the country and has already received a return currently available through index-linked National gold business award for energy conservation. It has Savings bonds. already paid a 10% deposit, but the costs of meeting the 12 December deadline will increase its costs by 11% and it faces great difficulty as a result. Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): The Government are right to cut the tariff. That is the message that I have heard from many in the solar sector, Chris Huhne: I hear what my hon. Friend says, and but the 12 December deadline is causing panic. There is she is not contesting the fact that there will still be a no doubt about that, so I ask the Government to positive return. That comes back to the point I was publish as soon as possible some kind of cost-benefit making. People might not make as much money as they analysis showing what the cost would be of sticking to thought they would, because the scheme had not been the April deadline and what the cost to the sector would brought into line with the fall in the cost of panels, but be of a 12 December deadline. That is the issue causing they will still make a positive return. My Department’s most fear. It is hard to exaggerate the level of that fear. key objective is to ensure that we make the transition to a low-carbon economy, not to provide excessive subsidies Chris Huhne: My hon. Friend makes a good point, where they are not warranted by the action that is to be but I have dealt with that issue in response to the hon. taken. If she would like to write to me with the details Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead). This of her example, we will take it into account as part of is such a movable feast that every time we do a projection, the consultation. I repeat that it is a genuine consultation. we find that the budget is being eaten up even more The revised tariffs will allow the feed-in tariffs to rapidly, so we have put out, in the impact assessment, a work in the way they were intended to, supporting the very clear projection on the basis of the knowledge that industry and jobs in the long term, rather than burning we had when the consultation was launched about what brightly for a few short months before fading away. The would happen overall—that is, a very substantial increase right hon. Member for Don Valley might urge on us the in the overall budget and a £26 increase in household attractions of becoming a sort of policy Catherine-wheel bills. The revisions that we have done since then suggest in which we are all fizz, but we do not particularly want that, if anything, things will be moving even more to be followed by all phutt, which is exactly what we rapidly. would have if the Labour party was to have its suggestion. 383 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 384

[Chris Huhne] Simon Hughes: I did press for a scheme when we were in opposition, and a scheme was introduced, but it was I am sure that Members will join me in supporting not adequate. I support the fact that it has to be long-term ambition across the whole green economy, reviewed because of the take-up, and the answer lies in rather than windfalls for the few. the Secretary of State’s answer, which I heard very The Government are committed to supporting clearly. It is to look at a new community tariff, to be sustainable low-carbon energy, but we cannot continue announced as soon as possible, which I heard him say to write blank cheques. By bringing solar PV returns in will be in January. line with other investment opportunities, we are Albert Owen: But the right hon. Gentleman said in guaranteeing the success of the feed-in tariff scheme as opposition that the rates were not ambitious enough. a whole, which will mean more renewable energy delivered Those were very his words, and he has now done a to more households in a sustainable way. flip-flop on that. Yes, we need a proper review; of course we do, because the industry is calling for it and Several hon. Members rose— everybody is calling for it, but it should be done on a sliding scale, not at the rate that the Secretary of State Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. A great describes. number of Members wish to take part in the debate, so a five-minute limit has been introduced for Back-Bench Chris Huhne: Will the hon. Gentleman please admit contributions. to the House that there has been a colossal fall in the cost of panels and, as a result, an enormous increase in 5.23 pm the real rate of return? That is what has changed in the Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): It is a great pleasure real world. Since my right hon. Friend the Member for once again to follow the Secretary of State, but I am Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) made afraid I cannot resist referring to his last remark on those points, the world has changed. Government Members policy Catherine-wheels. He is the man who said that have responded to that; Opposition Members do not the nuclear industry was flawed and should not continue, appear to have done so. but today he is Mr Nuclear. He said that solar panel feed-in tariffs were not ambitious enough, but now he Albert Owen: The Secretary of State has not read the says that they are flawed and too ambitious. He is the Opposition’s motion or listened to what the shadow undisputed champion of flip-flops. Today he has told Secretary of State said about the need for a sliding scale. us that he is looking after the interests of the consumer, I shall read out three examples, because they speak but he is doing exactly the opposite. not just for my constituents, but for constituents throughout the country. A Mr Jones wrote to me this month, saying: Since entering the House, I have been a consistent supporter of nuclear energy, renewable energy and energy “I am writing to you as a retired NHS employee, who recently decided to invest my pension lump sum monies into clean energy efficiency as a package. I see no contradiction in that and have just installed PV solar panel system on my house. My whatsoever. It will help consumers in the short term and decision was based on the Government’s existing tariffs and the environment in the long term, which is what proper estimated returns on the substantial investment and proceeded policy is about. with the installation in the last week of October. I was unaware of We do not have much time today, but, because of the the Government’s consultation document before proceeding. I country’s anger at the policy changes, we are here today, only recently heard about the changes on a news bulletin”. arguing the case for consumers. I shall read out a few He believes that the process is deceitful, because it cuts examples, because they show how out of touch the off before the consultation period is done. He says that Secretary of State and Government are on this important he understands the rationale for changes, as do all of us, issue. but the proposed changes will be made without any meaningful public consultation. Indeed, the Secretary It was not just the industry, but ordinary individuals of State has suggested that individual write in, and that who took this Government on trust, and they have the consultation changes will be made on a case-by-case broken it. The Liberal Democrats know that, because basis. What a sham—for the Government of the day to they argued that the scheme was not ambitious enough. say, “We will look at individual cases and maybe give a Indeed, the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and bit of leeway.” People want a proper strategy and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), who is in the Chamber, consistency. said that the then Government were not going far enough. Another constituent, a young person who has been self-employed for 10 years—the kind of person whom Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) the Government say they want to help—came to see me. (LD) rose— He has moved from various installation projects, including central heating systems, to the PV system, and he has Albert Owen: I am happy to take an intervention employed extra people. He says: from the right hon. Gentleman. I wanted to wake him “I am writing regarding the recent feed in tariff problems as I up and stir him so that I could get an extra minute and am sure you are aware of. I have had to lay off two installers last week for two weeks so far”, listen to his remarks. Is he prepared to intervene? and he cannot see himself bringing them back. His Chris Huhne: Will the hon. Gentleman take an office assistant is, he says, intervention from me? “down to two days a week from five days”, and he cannot honestly see his company trading: it will Albert Owen: I shall take an intervention first from cease trading because of the proposals. That is the kind the right hon. Gentleman’s previous boss. of reaction we are getting from communities. 385 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 386

A third person who wrote to me put across her point success of the feed-in tariffs scheme. People have really straightforwardly, as Anglesey people do, saying: embraced the opportunity to put solar panels on their “I was horrified to see the high handed fashion in which the own homes. Unfortunately, we pitched it at an unsustainable Government has eliminated the…Micro Generation Industry. level, and the only option is to reduce the subsidy to a By…slashing the value of the electricity feed-in tariff, they are level that still allows the industry to continue and people effectively ending the provision of free solar panels to the electorate to deliver solar panels. and endangering the jobs of tens of thousands of people. Not since the Thatcher Government of the 1980’s have those in power Opposition Members have referred to what happens set out to put an end to a sector of the economy overnight.” in Germany. The simple fact is that we are reducing our That was not a Labour supporter who was known to support to the same level that exists in Germany, and me, but an ordinary constituent who took the trouble to the industry is sustainable there. I am not an astronomer, write in. That is the situation that people are finding but my understanding is that we share the same sun, themselves in, and it is the scale of the downgrading of and the strength of the sunlight is the same. If the the tariffs that is concerning everybody. industry can thrive in Germany at the same level of I say to the Minister of State, the hon. Member for subsidy, I believe it can be sustainable in this country. Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker), who is going to The truth is that time will tell whether we are right or wind up the debate, that he should listen to the debate—I wrong. I believe that as we move forward, the industry do not think he is listening at the moment. He should will carry on and people will still be able to make use of not just give the speech that has been written for him by the opportunities provided. civil servants, but he should listen to the debate and listen to what the people of this country are saying. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): My hon. They understand the need for deficit reduction, but they Friend makes a very interesting point about Germany. also have trust in Governments, and when they enter a He will perhaps be aware that, in the last year of the scheme, they want to see it through. They want to help previous Government, Germany was getting approximately the country’s economy and create jobs, and jobs have 10% of its energy from renewables, while we were getting indeed been created. They want to save the economy, 2.5%. We have a lot to learn from Germany. but they also want to save the environment. That was why the scheme was set up. Yes, it needs to be reviewed, Mr Spencer: I agree with my hon. Friend. We can but the Government are destroying it, and I ask them to learn from some of the things Germany got right and think again. some of things it got wrong. That is the way to move forward. 5.30 pm Basically, there is a simple calculation. We need to get Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I am very grateful more solar panels for each pound we spend, and the to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me early in this Secretary of State’s suggestions would deliver more debate. Right at the beginning, I want to nail my flag to panels per pound. That is the simple calculation we the pole as being very pro-solar. I believe that solar have to make. The other thing we need to do is bring the power offers us a great opportunity to change how we technology into the mainstream. generate power, in a green way that protects the environment and lowers our carbon footprint. As a member of the Environmental Audit Committee, I have been very keen Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): One of the to push forward schemes such as solar and anaerobic issues the Opposition have been discussing today is that digestion, which also offers us a great opportunity. of jobs and lost jobs. Clearly, if twice as many panels Those schemes provide energy without having a great are being built sustainably in the longer term, there will impact on neighbouring sites. be a lot more jobs. I am keen to set out the position in which the Government found themselves when they came to power. Mr Spencer: That is absolutely true. After 13 years of a Labour Government, we faced the As I was starting to outline, the other thing we need real prospect of an energy crisis. We risked a gap in the to do is to bring the technology into the mainstream. supply to the general market and in this country’s This is no longer some green dream. Solar panels are a ability to find energy to keep the lights on in our homes real opportunity to deliver a credible energy source to and ensure that our businesses can thrive and move our homes. Many companies that focus solely on solar forward. It is a damning fact that the previous Government power have been established, but we need to tackle the did not grasp the nettle and sort out this country’s matter by ensuring that normal contractors—electricians energy supply to ensure that we can operate securely. and plumbers—look at such technologies as an alternative. To that end, I probably part company from the At the moment, an example of what happens is this. Secretary of State in saying that I think that the real Mrs Jones’s boiler will break down and a plumber will answer to delivering large-scale energy production will come along. If the plumber does not have the expertise be nuclear. The previous Government should have taken to say, “These are the alternative renewable sources of quicker action to deliver it. Coming from the constituency energy that you can look at,” she will have a normal of Sherwood, and from the former coalfields of gas-fired boiler fitted in her home. We need to bring Nottingham, I believe that the other way in which we such technologies into the mainstream, so that regular can solve the crisis is through carbon capture and electricians and plumbers have the experience to deliver storage, using coal-fired power in a green way so that it them. I hope that, as the scheme is successful, they will does not increase our carbon footprint. be able to tap into it and deliver that. I am not just The most important point to recognise is that a lack talking about specialised solar companies, but normal, of action is simply not an option. We cannot continue everyday contractors. That is starting to happen and the way we are going. We are a victim of the enormous will continue. 387 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 388

[Mr Spencer] because it is receiving unanticipated levels of rushed applications to make the new deadline, and that has I am very conscious of the time, so I shall summarise resulted in a significant slowing in the registration process. the matter quickly and leave my colleagues time to My constituents believe that this is, by default, another speak. We inherited an energy supply system that was in way for DECC to ensure that fewer people are able to tatters. We have had to tackle that at the same time as receive the previously agreed tariff, and the Secretary of greening our energy supply and lowering our carbon State openly admitted that in his speech. They rightly footprint. That is an enormous challenge. We have believe that this looks like another example of people made some very good progress, but there is a way to go entering into contracts with this Government only to and, under the current Administration and with the have the goalposts moved without due consideration or support of the Secretary of State, we can make great proper consultation and find that they are left to take progress. the financial hit. They were already in the position that 60% of the costs had been paid to the contractor and 5.37 pm they could not reasonably cancel the contract. Having fast-tracked the installation process, they are now faced Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): with another barrier to registration whereby, through I share the concerns of Labour Members. The shadow the Government’s action, they will be tied into a green Secretary of State made a very powerful speech, but I energy contract rather than breaking even. This leaves want to concentrate on a constituents’ case because the them with making a significant loss for the next 25 years, Secretary of State does not seem to think that the through no fault of their own. They tried to do the right December deadline is a problem. However, my constituents’ thing; perhaps the Government should now do the right case is a perfect illustration of why it is a problem. thing and change the deadline. On 2 November, my constituents learned that the Department of Energy and Climate Change had changed 5.42 pm the date from 31 March 2012 to 8 December 2011 for reducing the feed-in tariff rate for solar panels fitted to Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): The introduction domestic properties from 43%. At the 43% FIT level, of the feed-in tariff came about after a long campaign they calculated that they could borrow £12,000 to install by the parties now in Government and by many people solar panels and that they would break even on the loan out in the community who had seen the gains that had repayments. The week before, they signed a contract for been made in Germany. We keep coming back to the solar panels to be installed before 31 March 2012 and German example. I am sure that any German people paid just over £7,000 as a deposit. At that time, there watching this debate will feel very smug that much of it was no indication that DECC was about to make a is about what they have achieved there. I was a member sudden change to the date for introducing the revised of the Environment and Climate Change Committee FIT rate. during the previous Parliament, and we went over there to look what had been achieved in Baden-Württemburg My constituents immediately feared that the contractor and Freiburg, as well as in Stuttgart, where the panels may not be able to have the system installed and their were being produced. registration complete within the new time frame set by DECC. If that happened, they would be trapped in a Labour Members on the Committee—who at that contract from which they would be making a monthly time were Government Members—were very impressed loss that they cannot afford for the next 25 years. They but despairing that their party would not listen. I remember would not have signed up to the contract if DECC had the debates in this place when the feed-in tariff was made it known that it was about to change the time raised repeatedly, and some Labour Back Benchers frame for introducing the revised rate. My constituents were bravely standing up and defying the Whips to acted in good faith and believe that the original tariff argue for it. We have to remember that were it not for agreement to 31 March should be honoured or maintained what happened in another place we would not have at that level for people such as them who have already made the progress towards the feed-in tariff that we signed contracts and paid significant deposits with no have. The right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline guarantee that work and registration will be completed Flint) talks about the wonderful achievements of her before 8 December. That should be taken into consideration. Government and her conversion to believing in the It was completely unreasonable to give five weeks’ feed-in tariff, but whatever she says about the right hon. notice of such a significant change at a time when Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks)— suppliers and installers are exceptionally busy meeting Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Does the demands of the original 31 March deadline. the hon. Gentleman accept that it was 60 Labour Members Following this shock, my constituents have been working signing an amendment and negotiating hard within our closely with panel suppliers and installation contractors party to get signed up to feed-in tariffs that led the to complete the work prior to the new cut-off date. Labour Government to introduce the legislation? Luckily for them, the work has been completed, the system is installed, and registration documents have Dan Rogerson: I have already paid tribute to Labour been submitted to their energy supplier. The registration Back Benchers who were arguing for the tariff—but I documents were sent to the energy company by special am talking about Labour Front Benchers and the official delivery on Saturday 19 November, and they breathed a policy of the then Government until that point, which sigh of relief because this gave, or so they thought, was to reject it. Obviously, that is a matter of historical plenty of time for registration prior to the December record. cut-off. The energy company has now informed them We now have the feed-in tariff in operation. As a that it cannot guarantee that the registration documents Member of Parliament for Cornwall, where there are will be processed prior to the December cut-off date huge possibilities for the solar industry and fantastic 389 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 390 community groups are coming together in the co-operative Chris Huhne: We would like to do that, but the legal sector to drive this forward, I am very pleased that we basis for doing so is simply not there in the scheme that have seen such growth. However, I am looking to Ministers was introduced by the last Labour Government. to give a positive and consistent message on solar, because there is confusion out there, and that is damaging. John Robertson: Change it. The Secretary of State made a strong speech today setting out a clear direction. However, confidence has Chris Huhne: Well, we could do that, but it would undoubtedly been affected by, as the Secretary of State have to be part of the longer-term consultation on the would say, the success of the scheme, because there has comprehensive review, which we will carry out. been such a high take-up and high capacity. Dan Rogerson: I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention, as far as it goes. I hope that a huge Stephen Lloyd: On that subject, does my hon. Friend amount of effort will be devoted to putting that problem agree that one concern for many solar and renewables right very quickly. companies who have bought in to the green agenda is As other Members want to speak and as I have taken that they never know for sure whether the Government so many interventions, I will be brief. One other issue will change their mind midway through? Does he agree that I want to focus on, which has not been raised, is the that this decision, though economically understandable, concentration on energy efficiency for people who want may feed that concern? to take advantage of the tariff. That is hugely problematic in areas such as mine that have older housing stock, Dan Rogerson: That is the thrust of what has been which it will be very difficult to get up to the standard. I said by several Government Members, and indeed do not think that there is— Opposition Members, who have raised concerns. We accept the need to act, but we must ensure that there is Chris Huhne rose— now a consistent vision so that the message gets across. I am excited about the possibilities. I believe that in Dan Rogerson: I will not give way, but the Minister the longer term, the message will be much better in will have a chance to respond in his summing up. terms of how much will be added to the bills of those Caroline Flint: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? who cannot take advantage of feed-in tariffs, because we will see a break-up of the small oligopoly of the big Dan Rogerson: I will not, because I need to complete six energy producers and there will be a far more this point. dispersed system. That will ultimately provide more I do not think that we need to connect this matter competition and drive down price. Clearly the Secretary of with energy efficiency so intimately. In the green deal State has been looking at this economic model, and he and other schemes, there are advantages and pressures has to consider how much money is in the budget. I to encourage people to consider energy efficiency measures. advise him to continue to focus on costs being put on to I think that linking these things is unhelpful, particularly other domestic bills. I think that we can be far more for people in areas such as mine. positive about the long-term implications of this policy for all energy bill payers. If we have a far more diverse Although I welcome the Secretary of State’s commitment mix, it will create further competition and drive down to move forward with this scheme and the vision for prices, or at least will resist the upward trend in prices solar that he has set out, I urge him to consider other that we have had because of the issues with fossil fuels. means for getting the sector to grid price parity, so that we can have confidence that the sector will continue to Huw Irranca-Davies: I ask the hon. Gentleman to grow in a sustainable way. agree, if not with Opposition Members, with that very good group within the Liberal Democrats, the Green 5.45 pm Liberal Democrats, and with Welsh Liberal Democrat John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): This Assembly Members, who have written to the Secretary has been an interesting debate. I wonder whether some of State to ask him to delay this decision to ensure that Government Members live in the real world. The hon. there is an effective transition. That seems to be wholly Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) thinks good sense as a bare minimum. Will he agree with them the Germans will watch the debate, but I wonder how and then support us in the Lobby to vote for the many will. He seemed to get excited because people will motion? be worse off than they are now. The Secretary of State seems quite happy that jobs in the industry will go, and Dan Rogerson: As for how I will vote, I have looked at tells us that the industry will grow when everything else the motion and I am waiting to hear the Government’s is not growing. position in the summing up. I have a number of issues, We should get back to what this is all about, which is such as the need for certainty and the effect of the cliff looking after the people who need looking after. Thirteen edge in December, which other hon. Members have and a half thousand of my constituents border on fuel talked about. That is the real problem for investors. It poverty. I care about them more than I care about would be very welcome if, in looking at the consultation, whether solar power is put into houses or whether the the Government could come up with any means of money for that is right or wrong. For those people to tapering that effect, particularly to help the community get their energy, and to ensure they can afford it, we schemes and social housing schemes that are considering must have solar power, wind farms and everything else exciting ways to involve tenants and whole communities that can send power into their homes to help to keep the in taking advantage of the scheme. Those are people lights on and give them cheaper energy. who might not be able to do so on their own, because they are not capital-rich enough. Katy Clark: Will my hon. Friend give way? 391 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 392

John Robertson: I am not going to give way.Government on the hoof and statements that contradict my hon. Members give way to waste time. Let them do it. We will Friend, who knows his constituent and knows the situation, make sure that we say what needs to be said. They can and says that my hon. Friend is wrong—and then, when play games. asked from a sedentary position, “How do you know I should like to move on to fuel poverty, which is the constituent didn’t do that?” turns round and says, what I believe we are here to talk about, and people who “Well, I don’t.” He is basically saying, “I just don’t will die. I asked the Secretary of State earlier whether care.” the tax taken from the big six and the reduction in the We see it more and more. We have a Government who money for solar power are worth the 2,700 lives that will always use the excuse, “It’s somebody else’s fault. A big be lost this year owing to the Government’s energy boy did it and ran away.” That is their modus operandi. policies, but he never answered me. I am willing to allow That is what they do. It is always somebody else’s fault him to intervene if he wants to tell me that his policies and never their fault, but unfortunately it is the people are worth more than 2,700 lives. We all hear that deafening who Labour Members, in particular, represent who will silence. The money that the Government get from the suffer at the end of the day. I want to ensure that the tax and from reducing solar energy will amount to 2,700 extra people who might die this winter do not, but 2,700 lives. That is what the Hills report says, and the the sad truth is that this Government do not care, and Secretary of State agreed with me when he was questioned never will care. That is why the people on this side of the about it. House are better than them.

Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman is completely 5.55 pm misguided to quote the Hills report, which I commissioned Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): It is because I want a real effort made to combat fuel poverty, a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow which was not happening in the past few years; we saw North West (John Robertson). I agree that we should fuel poverty increase under the Labour Government. focus on the costs and budgets of ordinary people, but I He is quite wrong to say that I am not concerned about have sympathy for the businesses that were lured to the big six. We want a competitive market. That is why invest by the promise of unsustainable subsidies. I have we are introducing extra consumer safeguards, and why neither sympathy nor respect for the Labour Ministers we are making the retail and wholesale markets more who set up the scheme knowing full well that the competitive. subsidies were unsustainable, and I deeply regret the fact that my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front John Robertson: I can only use the right hon. Gentleman’s Bench, in the previous Parliament and this Parliament, own words. He told me that the Hills report said that took so long to recognise, at least partially, the folly of 27,000 extra people would die this winter, and that 10% the scheme. of those deaths would be down to the Government’s energy policies. That will be in Hansard for hon. Members No one in this place has any excuse for failing to to read for themselves. I asked him whether lives were recognise that the subsidies were never remotely justified. worth more than the tax money, and he never answered me. The House insists that when a piece of legislation is published, we publish alongside it an impact assessment At the end of the day, people will make the difference. of the costs and benefits, so that the House will not be The Government cannot be trusted. If people cannot so foolish as to go ahead with a measure whose costs trust the Government or what they are saying, how can exceed its benefits. Have any Labour Members actually they move forward? There lies the biggest problem. The read the impact assessment accompanying the scheme? 13,500 pensioners who are approaching fuel poverty in my constituency, and the disabled people who need Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): extra help, will not be able to work out whether they can Ihave. trust the Government to see them through this winter. Everything that has been mentioned is for next year, not Mr Lilley: Then the hon. Lady should be even more this winter, but we need to solve the problems this ashamed of supporting it. The impact assessment published winter. by the Labour Government when the scheme was originally The money spent on solar power would have helped introduced calculated the net present value of the scheme’s in the long term to keep people in jobs, to stimulate future costs to be about £8.6 billion, yet the Labour growth in industry and to get money circulating in the Government also measured the benefits of using solar country, but the Government are cutting it. They want rather than hydrocarbons and calculated the direct benefits to halve the amount of money that would circulate. in the shape of electricity and the indirect benefits—far They want to halve everything. My hon. Friends the more important—through the reduction in the damage Members for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) caused by global warming owing to fewer CO2 emissions. and for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown) told us They calculated that the net present value of all the about their constituents who, through no fault of their future benefits, direct and indirect, compared with the own, will be caught up in this system and will find that costs of £8.6 billion, would be just £400 million. In they cannot afford what they thought they were going other words, we knew when we introduced this scheme to get, although they did do their risk management. that the costs were 20 times the assessed benefits, but we When the Secretary of State was having a go at my went ahead anyway. hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway, I I brought that fact to the attention of the House, but asked him how he knew that the person in question had more importantly it was brought to the world’s attention not done a risk assessment or worked out the financial by George Monbiot, a distinguished campaigner—unlike situation, and he replied, “Well, I don’t.” So there we me—for measures to stop global warming, when he have it: we have a Secretary of State who makes policy wrote: 393 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 394

“The government is about to shift £8.6bn from the poor to the Not only do we not create any net jobs; we also create middle classes. It expects a loss on this scheme of £8.2 billion, or only a tenth of the amount of electricity by investing £8 95%. Yet the media is silent. The opposition urges only that the billion in solar than we would by investing in nuclear or scheme be expanded.” something else. We knew when we introduced the scheme that it would be nonsense even if it went according to plan. It was Dr Whitehead: Will the right hon. Gentleman give self-evidently unsustainable. Even halving it today means way? that we will merely waste £4 billion, or 90% of the expected expenditure. Mr Lilley: I am afraid that I will not give way again. When I have raised these issues, Ministers have employed I will remind the House of something that may have two defences. The first is that the impact assessment escaped hon. Members’ attention. Even if the price excluded many knock-on effects. If it did they should comes down dramatically, solar will never be a substitute have introduced a new one, because impact assessments for other forms of energy. It will always have to be are supposed to include all the indirect effects. It should backed up and duplicated by an equal amount of capacity not have been signed off by the hapless Minister, Lord that can perform when solar is not available. It may Hunt of Kings Heath. Then Ministers pray in aid the have escaped the notice of the House, but the sun comes fact that the cost of solar energy is declining. They out only in the day. It is not available at night, when it is attribute that decline to the scheme, but none of it is due coldest and we need most energy. The sun is highest in to the scheme, and the idea that our scheme will in any the sky in the summer; it is lowest in the winter, when it way accelerate the decline in costs worldwide is ridiculous. is coldest and we need most energy. The sun is often If something like Moore’s law does indeed apply, so that blocked by clouds, and one cannot predict when that costs are likely to halve every couple of years, that is a will happen. For every megawatt of solar capacity that reason for not investing now, but instead waiting until it we install, we have to install an equal gas capacity to is economic to do so, which will not be long. If we invest back it up and replicate it. Unless we realise that, and in expensive stuff when inexpensive stuff is going to be abandon the scheme until solar becomes much more available in a few years, we are wasting money. economic, we are wasting the nation’s money and, as George Monbiot says, transferring money from poor people’s and ordinary people’s pockets into the hands Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): I am of richer people. grateful to my right hon. Friend for the background information, which is especially useful for us new Members, who were not here when the policy was discussed previously. 6.3 pm He is highlighting an extremely important point. The Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): If ever there was an Government have only so much money to invest in new example of how not to make an announcement in this sustainable energy. It is all the more important to ensure House, the announcement of the review of feed-in that it is spent wisely, otherwise there will be no opportunity tariffs is it. The Government tried to slip it out as a to bring other technologies to market. written statement, but our ever-vigilant DECC team on the Opposition Front Bench recognised its importance, Mr Lilley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the and managed to get a Minister to the Dispatch Box argument that such investment creates jobs is—as the only by tabling an urgent question. The Government’s Secretary of State will know, being a distinguished code of practice on consultations states that they should economist—completely bogus. We have a fixed amount last 12 weeks, but this consultation is to last only six of money. We can either spend it on gas, oil or nuclear, weeks, with the changes coming into force nearly two or we can spend it on solar. If we spend £8 billion on weeks before it finishes. Given the dearth of proposed either, we will create roughly the same number of jobs. legislation before the Chamber, I would have expected Spending £8 billion on solar means that many fewer the Government to allow an oral statement and a full- jobs in gas, nuclear, coal and oil. We have not created day debate on the issue—not least to discuss the implied any net jobs across the economy by means of this loss of jobs. It would be laughable if it were not so subsidy. One never does. serious. The change will cost a lot of jobs in this sector, in which up to 30,000 people work. It will remove the David Mowat: My right hon. Friend is making an opportunity for nine out of 10 households to take extremely powerful speech. In addition to his point advantage of the feed-in tariff to reduce their energy about the allocation of £8 billion, is he aware of the bills at a time of rising fuel poverty. The 12 December recent peer-reviewed research from Imperial college—it deadline is causing planned solar projects nationwide to was the subject of a Parliamentary Office of Science be shelved and millions of pounds of investment to be and Technology note—that said that nuclear power has lost. A survey by the Renewable Energy Association one third the CO2 emissions per kWh of solar over its reveals that 57% of companies now anticipate laying off life cycle? That is an extraordinary statistic, which goes at least half of their staff, while a third believe that their right to the heart of the policy. companies will go under. Let us take the example of Mr Wayne Richardson, Mr Lilley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. George one of my constituents who runs Revolution Power—a Monbiot pointed out in his original article that it costs small renewable energy company employing 17 people. about £3 to save a tonne of CO2 by investing in geothermal It has been on the go for about six years. Revolution energy, and £8 by building a nuclear power station, Power fits photovoltaic units and provides ground and whereas the scheme that we are talking about costs air heat pumps. Mr Richardson tells me that he might more like £800 to save a tonne of CO2. have to lay off a third of his staff. He is a young man 395 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 396

[Phil Wilson] controlling the cost of the subsidy because the average installation is now around £9,000—down from £12,000—so with a young family; he is an entrepreneur and a trier. the rate of return has shot up. We need more Wayne Richardsons in the north-east to If the Government’s proposed reforms are introduced, promote and protect jobs in the private sector. we will mirror Germany’s FITs subsidy levels from January onwards, while still spending £867 million over Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): Does my four years. Money intended to support decentralised hon. Friend agree that companies such as Romag—a energy will not now subsidise energy-inefficient buildings major employer in my constituency that has been in the under new energy efficiency requirements, which can industry a long time and employs young people and only be a good thing. Solar will still be the most young graduates in its research and development section— subsidised renewable technology, receiving twice the recognise the fact that feed-in tariffs are reducing, but subsidy available for inshore wind. The Government’s are concerned about the shameful way in which this changes will also protect consumer energy bills. Labour consultation has occurred and the very tight time scale? Members must tell us by how much they would be That is what is going to do them in. prepared to increase the average household’s energy bill in order to maintain high tariffs for solar. The amount Phil Wilson: My hon. Friend is right. We all agree might be as much as £55 per household. that the tariff has to come down, but how it is implemented is important. We need to think about the best way of Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): My hon. Friend is protecting jobs, particularly in the north-east, where I making some powerful points. It is true that we must want to see more private sector jobs available. make feed-in tariffs more sustainable, although, like Wayne Richardson agrees that the value of the feed-in many other Members who have spoken, I have concerns tariff should be reduced, but the cack-handed way in about the proposed time scales. Is this not about making which the Government have introduced this policy is the system fairer—fairer for those who are already hurting his company. The early reduction in the feed-in signed up and going through the process, but also, as tariffs has created a vacuum in the market. As a my hon. Friend says, fairer for households that are consequence, parts and materials are in short supply, struggling with high energy bills? making it difficult for projects to be finished before 12 December. Chris Kelly: I agree, but I believe that the consultation One reason behind the reduction is the falling price timetable is reasonable. I think that people will have of installations. Because of the arbitrary deadline of time to plan and prepare, and to register installations 12 December, however, the price of equipment is going that are currently under way. In September, 16,000 solar up. The number of inquiries about PV has decreased by photovoltaic installations were registered, double the 90%, which does not bode well for the future. The FITs number registered in June. There are now 100,000 scheme is paid for by a levy on energy companies, which installations nationally, three times as many as were is passed on to consumers and costs, as I understand it, projected, and the costs of solar PV have fallen by at only £1 a year. We should compare that with the situation least a third since the FITs scheme began. with wind farms. Eon wants to build 45 wind turbines The scheme was designed to encourage deployment in the constituency. The subsidy from the consumer in of additional small-scale low-carbon electricity generation, that case is close to £200 a year. particularly by organisations, businesses, communities The FIT needs to be reduced, but not by 50% in seven and individuals who had not traditionally been engaged weeks. In Germany, where 50% of all PV units are in the electricity market, many of them in our constituencies. installed, the tariff was cut by 15% and it is being The Government rightly announced the largest reduction achieved step by step through negotiations and agreement in tariffs for the large-scale solar projects. The Government’s with the industry. Plenty of time and notice has been proposed FITs reductions for domestic solar energy allowed. I understand that reductions in the tariff there installations are out for public consultation until occur year on year so that the industry and consumers 23 December, and are due to come in to effect in April can plan ahead—something this Government are daily next year. I believe that that is a sensible time scale, and proving their inability to do. The fact that so little I hope that the Secretary of State will consider carefully legislation is before the House proves to me that they the submissions he receives. have no plan and, I suspect, no future. The Government are right to address payments for FITs from more than one PV installation located on 6.8 pm different sites under single ownership. I am thinking of the likes of Asda, which was mentioned earlier. I think Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): Post-privatisation, that 80% of the full subsidy is a sensible level. The more than a dozen utility companies provided a great scheme we inherited from Labour was based on wildly deal of energy competition in this country. Sadly, under inaccurate projections and participation, and therefore Labour, however, the energy market consolidated so on entirely unrealistic financial assumptions. Any that we now have, as the hon. Member for North programme in any Department must be sustainable and Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) said, the big six. We also based on realistic finances. Without urgent action, the inherited feed-in tariffs in a shambles. It is my belief whole FITs budget would be swallowed up by solar that the Government’s reform of FITs will protect our alone within months, depriving other renewable technologies energy mix. of support through FITs. Microgeneration, for instance, As the Secretary of State has pointed out, installation is a key part of the energy mix that we will need for costs of solar photovoltaics have fallen by at least 30% future energy security. The FITs subsidy cannot go since the FITs scheme began. The Government are disproportionately to solar. 397 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 398

Each week beyond 1 April next year on the old stock for that work had to be ordered several months subsidy tariff would cost more than £500,000 per day, ago, however, and Sharp Solar is now stuck with it no or about £3.8 million per week. While £867 million over matter what happens. four years is a sustainable subsidy, more than that All the political parties agree that there had to be would be unsustainable. None of these changes is changes, but the changes could have been made in a way retrospective, and fairness is therefore being safeguarded. that was manageable, and a proper notice period could There has been a big fall in solar PV costs, and a big have been provided. The Government could have got increase in the rate of return. That will exhaust the FITs businesses on their side in order to make the changes budget unless it is urgently addressed. The rate of work. Instead, we have a total mess. return needs to be reduced from 12% to 5%. The irony is Businesses have tried to tell the Government about that Labour wants millions of families in fuel poverty the problems the changes will cause them. Wrexham to subsidise a few thousand well-off people with solar council leaders wrote to the Government to tell them panels by adding up to £55 a year to the average bill, about the impact of the 12 December deadline on their with no reform of the feed-in tariff. scheme. They received a reply inviting them to respond to the consultation, but that response will be read only Several hon. Members rose— after the deadline has passed. That is totally shambolic. North Wales needs a strong solar industry, but I fear Mr Speaker: Order. With immediate effect, I shall that the so-called “greenest Government ever” have reduce the time for Back-Bench speeches to four minutes kicked the industry fully in the teeth. in the hope of securing the participation of another colleague. 6.17 pm Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): I will try to 6.14 pm be brief as I know that many Members want to take Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): It is a pleasure part in this important debate. to follow the hon. Member for Dudley South (Chris I do not agree with much that the hon. Member for Kelly), not least because it gives me an opportunity to Glasgow North West (John Robertson) said— make the point about the six weeks’ notice and the arbitrary date of 12 December—before the official John Robertson: That’s a surprise! consultation ends—all of which were totally missing from his speech. Nicky Morgan: Exactly. However, I do agree with the North Wales will be deeply affected by these changes. hon. Gentleman that this debate is about people. We are The following points were made in a column in a local talking about our constituents: those who generate newspaper: energy, those who consume energy, and those who are innovators in the industry. “The Government needs to rethink…There could be considerable impact on jobs in North Wales as local electricians as well as local We have all been diligent constituency MPs this afternoon producers for solar panels are preparing to deal with the impact and have mentioned a number of constituents who have of cancelled orders for work. In Wrexham, major housing projects contacted us to say they are affected by this issue. I which included provision for Feed-in Tariffs are now at risk could talk about Mr and Mrs Willett, who have agreed because of the UK Government’s decision.” to install a photovoltaic system with an installation date Those are not my words, nor are they the words of any of 9 January 2012. I could talk about the company PG Labour party representative; they are the words of the Plumbing and Heating Ltd in my constituency; it wants former leader of Wrexham county borough council, me to put a question to the Minister, and I will come who now sits as a Liberal Democrat Member in the back to that. I could talk about Loughborough Solar Welsh Assembly. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State Technologies, which has contacted me, or the company is not present to answer the questions raised by that C Gascoigne, which I mentioned when I asked the Liberal Democrat representative. Minister a question earlier. I could also mention SmartGen. One business constituent of mine tells me customers I thought I should mention all of them so that they can are now refusing to go forward with work if it cannot be say, “Yes, she’s done what she should do as our constituency completed by the arbitrary deadline. He says that what MP.”They are all affected by this decision, and they all the Minister has done to this industry is atrocious. have questions for the Minister. However, the key point is that this is ultimately about people—about people Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend when they come to pay their energy bills, as my hon. agree that this scheme unlocked thousands of pounds Friend the Member for Dudley South (Chris Kelly) of private capital to create jobs in the local economy, said. and that this Government’s mad decision to impose a All the political parties have agreed that there was a cut with six weeks’ notice will not only completely need for change. The feed-in tariff scheme as left to us undermine confidence now, but will put future customers by the previous Government did not add up. The shadow off for ever? Secretary of State said there would have been a review, but as the Secretary of State pointed out, the last Susan Elan Jones: I entirely agree. Government had not planned to undertake that review Sharp Solar was mentioned earlier. It has made it until 2013, which would have been too late. clear that big contracts, such as that with Wrexham What do we disagree on? Who is at fault. Is the need council to install solar panels on 3,000 council houses, for change the fault of consumers who are prepared to are now in doubt. The 900 installations completed generate energy and who wanted to install solar panels? before the 12 December deadline are safe, but no decision Is it the fault of the companies that have taken advantage has been made on whether the others will go ahead. The of the generous scheme that was on offer? No, the fact 399 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 400

[Nicky Morgan] Mr Clarke: I am glad that the hon. Lady made her point but, if she does not mind, I shall continue to make that we are having to change the scheme and affect the mine. constituents who have contacted me as well as many Skyline, a local company in my constituency, made others is the fault of the previous Government, who left representations to me over the weekend. In partnership us with a wholly unsustainable system. with the AVC Group, Skyline has recently opened a brand-new purpose-built premises in Shawhead in Stephen Lloyd rose— Coatbridge. The managing director, Mr Robert Bell, explained to me: Nicky Morgan: I am not going to take any interventions. “In this new venture Skyline in partnership with the AVC I have been asked to be brief and it is only fair that I Group are now introducing solar energy sales, installation and should be so that other hon. Members can speak. advice to our existing business. A new trade counter will be This is the fault of the previous Government and the available covering all aspects of aerials, satellite and renewable one word that was missing, as always, from the shadow energy products. Secretary of State’s speech—as it is from those of any Skyline and the AVC Group share the new premises. This will shadow Secretary of State—was the word “sorry”. She help consolidate our main business activities and help Skyline to should have said sorry to those consumers who face secure more jobs for local people. higher bills, who thought they had agreed things and Our training facility will also be used by external companies who are now having to deal with the date of the cut-off seeking to train their employees in ladder training at special and the changes to the tariff. heights underpinned with customer care.” The level of entrepreneurship exhibited in my constituency The House needs to discuss how to ensure that there is, quite simply, being placed at risk by the Government. is a sustainable system so that we have certainty for Not only are the Government proposing to cut feed-in tariffs. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin tariffs by half so that demand for solar power is reduced and Harpenden (Mr Lilley) said, it is not the Government’s by a staggering 92%, they want to do so retrospectively. role to support bubbles. Unfortunately, when we are left That means that people with businesses who have already a bubble by the previous Government, this Government invested in solar power will have to abandon their have to burst it. We have to face the realities of the schemes if they cannot afford the new rate. situation and we will potentially get it in the neck, as we have with the other decisions we have had to take, for I suspect that councils up and down the country will dealing with the mess left to us by them. have to pull the plug on thousands of solar panel installations for social housing and community projects. I have some points for clarification. First, will the We have heard evidence of that this afternoon. I wrote Minister confirm whether the cut-off date in December to the chief executive of north Lanarkshire council and is the date of installation or the date when the application a variety of housing associations in an effort to establish for the tariff has been processed? Secondly, I and other the extent of the Government’s cuts to solar power. It is Members would appreciate some explanation of how clear that the new regulations imposed by the Government the consultation dates work. Obviously, we have been alongside the tariff reduction will make solar energy given the date of 12 December and the consultation inaccessible to most people in my constituency. closes after that. It is worth addressing that point. Finally, I mentioned the company Loughborough Solar Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): One Technologies, which would appreciate a clear commitment issue to be addressed is that of customers who find from the Government to the industry— themselves halfway through a contract and who will not now get solar power. They will be betwixt and between Mr Speaker: Order. We are extremely grateful to the because they will not have the opportunity of getting hon. Lady. that solar power up and running. Is that not a major issue that the Government have not looked at in the 6.21 pm consultation? Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab): Like so many others, I am deeply concerned by Mr Clarke: My hon. Friend makes his point very the Government’s proposals for green energy and the effectively, and earlier our hon. Friend the Member for devastating impact the cuts to feed-in tariffs could have North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) highlighted on thousands of jobs within my constituency and across what he has just said. Britain, not to mention the sheer irony as the Government The Financial Times today reported that the Secretary renege on their commitment to be the greenest Government of State for Energy and Climate Change is considering ever. “new limits...on subsidies for households that install renewable In the past year, nearly 200 families within my council energy...as he looks to defuse anger” boundary have installed solar power. It is a great way about the cuts. I only hope that his words translate into for people to make their homes greener and more action, as the Government’s own impact assessment efficient and to protect themselves from soaring energy reveals that nine out of 10 households will be locked prices. out of the solar energy market. How can that be justified by the so-called greenest Government ever? I will continue Laura Sandys: I must point out that although Opposition to oppose the devastating impact of their attack on Members are talking about the total collapse of this feed-in tariffs and I shall fight for a fairer deal for the industry, households will, on average, get £500 tax-free people of my constituency who are finding it very every year. That might not be £1,000, but it is an difficult to cope with rising energy prices. Yes, the solar extraordinary incentive to companies to sell and households industry does need to be regulated and, yes, reductions to purchase solar panel products. in tariffs do need to be made as energy becomes cheaper, 401 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 402 but not on this scale and not so that it is essentially That is a sustainable and inexpensive way of producing wiped out as an alternative for the average household energy, and DECC has estimated that it could produce and small business. It cannot be right that the Government up to 10% of the electricity that the UK needs. That is a are hitting people who are trying to do the right thing very good investment, and the Government are to be by cutting their energy bills. Their proposals for feed-in congratulated, at a time when there are limited resources, tariffs will hit families, put thousands of jobs at risk and as that deep geothermal energy plant will create thousands devastate the solar industry. That is the reality of what of jobs in the company and up to 9,000 jobs in the we are debating. The Liberal Democrats once again supply chain around Cornwall for the development of find themselves between a rock and a hard place as the that new and exciting technology. Government plough ahead with irresponsible cuts that I very much welcome the fact that, this winter, the strike at the very heart of what we are told were their renewable heat incentive will be made available to core beliefs. If the coalition Government truly strive to commercial businesses and a limited number of consumers be the greenest Government ever, they cannot seriously installing ground heat pumps and other sources of expect the public to stand by as the solar industry is cut renewable heat. I hope that, through that work, lessons down in its prime—just as the number of companies will be learned so that we can end the debacle that we operating in solar has risen from 350 to 4,000 and as inherited with FITs. The renewable heat incentive will clean energy jobs have soared from 3,000 to 30,000 play an enormously important role in our energy security since 2010. That would simply be unsustainable and and in making sure that people switch to sustainable, unacceptable, certainly to my constituents and the small green energy sources, so I hope that it does its job and companies in my constituency. works well.

6.28 pm 6.31 pm Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): As I Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): I am have written to my hon. Friend the Minister regarding grateful for the opportunity to pay tribute to Alan the concerns raised with me by constituents, I shall not Simpson, the former Labour MP who tabled the list them all this evening. I was very reassured by the amendment that led to the legislation on FITs. I am sad Secretary of State’s assurance that the consultation on that the present Administration have succumbed to the the proposed changes to the feed-in tariff is genuine. I lobbying power of the big six energy companies by am sure that he will listen very carefully to all the taking the first step in the erosion of FITs in this arguments and read carefully all the comments from my country.Government Members have mentioned Germany, constituents that have been given to him. which has a strong FITs system, and its tariffs led to far lower energy prices than we have in this country. FITs Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I should are about where the power is, and one of their impacts very much like to ask the Minister to clarify the situation is to transfer power from the energy companies to regarding the tariffs and whether they will be retrospective. individuals—to the consumer—and to communities. Mid Devon council in my constituency has 1,800 homes That is why I am sad that the Government have introduced on which it wants to put solar panels. Two thirds of these proposals. those people are on housing benefit and they would get the benefit of £3 a week off their electricity bill, so I am Gregory Barker: On a very important point of fact, very concerned about the retrospective side of the tariff. energy prices in Germany are not lower. The cost of electricity to the German consumer is significantly higher Sarah Newton: I think my hon. Friend has made his and, importantly, 45% of the consumer’s bill there is point. made up through levies and policy impacts as a result of In the few moments I have left, I should like to renewables legislation. develop the good points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley) Katy Clark: As the Minister will be aware, energy and my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South prices in Germany are at the levels they were in 2008, (Chris Kelly), who rightly reminded us that the Government which is a very different situation from the one we are have only so much money to give away in subsidies and in. Opposition spokespeople have already spoken about that they need to support a wide range of sustainable the bills that individuals and businesses have to face and green ways of producing energy. under this Government. The Government are rushing to introduce their proposal, Katy Clark: Will the hon. Lady give way? which will cause havoc for all the reasons outlined by many Opposition Members and, indeed, by some Sarah Newton: I am sorry, I will press on so that more Government Members, because they chose to put a Members can speak. ceiling on the solar FIT budget. That was not the I am concerned that we should not use up all our position under the previous Government. Will Ministers resources, as we need to support emerging technologies. explain whether they have looked at surpluses in other It is vital that we do not spend all the money on FITs renewable energy budgets, and ask the Treasury if they for PVs. The Government have introduced a wide range can use those budgets to ensure that more money is of really good policies that support the emergence of available for solar, given the runaway success of the new technologies in my constituency. For example, recent scheme? investment by the regional growth fund in deep geothermal engineering will leverage in £42 million of private sector Dr Whitehead: Would my hon. Friend be surprised to investment, alongside nearly £1.5 million from the learn that the impact assessment that went with the Department of Energy and Climate Change to create present changes showed that the budget that this the first deep geothermal power station in my constituency. Government introduced would not be exceeded by more 403 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 404

[Dr Whitehead] shale gas, offshore wind and even solar. Just because there is a change in the regime, I do not believe that than 9% up to 2015? Further to her suggestion that the solar will be put on the back burner at all. Treasury might find the money to put matters right, will The problem with feed-in tariffs for solar PV is that she suggest to the Minister that if he looks at his own they have been far more successful than anybody ever budget and the Treasury rules within it, he could solve anticipated. A number of Members have mentioned the problem now? that today. Three times as many applications have gone ahead as could have reasonably been expected. In September Katy Clark: My hon. Friend puts a powerful case. alone there were 16,000 new applications. We saw the Perhaps Government Members should read the Opposition graph that the Secretary of State showed us earlier—it motion before them. There is acceptance on both sides looked like a hockey stick. If action had not been taken of the House and within the renewable energy industry, now, the whole tariff scheme would have become completely both among consumers and among those who manufacture unsustainable. and install the equipment, that a review of the tariff rates is needed. The problem with the Government’s Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Does my hon. proposals is the short notice, which has come about Friend agree that not only would the FIT scheme become because of the rules that the Government created for untenable, but the jobs created in the short term through themselves. I therefore ask the Government to withdraw the gold rush to get into the marketplace would quickly the arbitrary 12 December deadline and introduce more evaporate? What we want is long-term, sustainable jobs, measured proposals. If Government Members agree hence the need to bring the FIT down. with that, the only option available to them this evening is to vote for the Opposition motion. Glyn Davies: I very much agree with my hon. Friend; We have heard a lot from the Government about their it is a point I made in an earlier intervention. I thought being the greenest Government ever, but the proposal that the Secretary of State’s reference to a Catherine-wheel that we are discussing shows what a lie that is. The only was a wonderful analogy. A quick burst followed by a way to bring renewable energy into mass use in this reduction in the number of jobs in the long run as a country, with the economies of scale that make it a result of not doing something about the scheme would viable option for most people, is by providing incentives be entirely negative. Any scheme must be sustainable, now for those who are leading the trail. We need a and the problem with the scheme as it stood was that it Government with vision, who are committed to developing was completely unsustainable. our renewable energy industry and to combating climate When I first heard about the predicted change, I change. was as concerned as anyone, which is why I listened The only way for the Government to achieve those to the Secretary of State’s statement very carefully. aims is to commit themselves fully to feed-in tariffs and Afterwards, I understood that the Government had to create a regime that ensures certainty in the market, absolutely no choice but to go forward with the so that the financial sector, both in the private and the changes they have made. That is the only way the public sectors, knows that it can invest in renewables scheme can be sustainable in the long term. The issue is because there is certainty about the deal on the table. the timetable. I was greatly relieved that he pointed out Such a regime will ensure that we have a green Government in his contribution that there is a consultation period. If and a green Britain. I urge the Government to show people have lost money—not making less money than vision and to re-examine their proposals. they were before—we need to put those cases forward and I hope that he will take them seriously and consider 6.37 pm their special circumstances. Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to contribute to an 6.41 pm important and complex debate. The issue has a significant Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ impact on Montgomeryshire. I know that many other Co-op): We have had an important debate and a number Members have received communications from people of significant points have been made by many hon. who are concerned about the changes to the feed-in Members despite their speaking for a limited time. My tariff. hon. Friends the Members for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), The core issue is the tension between desirable objectives. for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne), for On the one hand, we seek to tackle the carbon emissions Glasgow North West (John Robertson), for Sedgefield that threaten our planet through climate change, and (Phil Wilson) and for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones), renewable energy is a significant part of that. On the my right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston other hand, we have to look after consumers. We heard and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) and my hon. Friend the earlier about the impact on the poorest people in society, Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark), because the subsidy has to be paid by consumers. That among other Members, made important points about includes probably millions of people who are already the Government’s changes to the feed-in tariff. We suffering fuel poverty. It would be irresponsible of the could no doubt have had a somewhat longer debate had Government not to consider those who might be driven time not been curtailed by the Secretary of State’s into fuel poverty if they adopted a cavalier approach lengthy urgent statement earlier this afternoon and his towards the subsidy required for the feed-in tariff as it lengthy speech at the start of the debate, but I want to was. keep my remarks as brief as possible to enable the The Government remain committed to a variety of Minister to respond. A number of important issues energy sources. Nuclear is clearly an important part of have been raised and I am sure that he wants to respond that. Renewables have a big part to play—tidal, possibly to them. 405 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 406

The Minister is a politician that many of us have that there should be a sensible, structured reduction in come to appreciate, especially in his recent works, as a the subsidy—not a jump off the landing, but a walk master of his art. The reduction in the feed-in tariff down the stairs. “effectively slowly suffocates the growth that the policy has so far The Government’s consultation states that installation encouraged.” costs have reduced by 30%, but it is no good the Not my words but those of the Minister’s close colleague, Minister getting to his feet and citing the cost of panels Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London. in isolation from other costs as a way of justifying the “Industry trust and confidence in the government has evaporated.” 70% figure from Bloomberg, because, if installation Again, not my words but those of the CBI. The new costs have reduced by 30%, why is the tariff being cut by rates mean 52% in one go? Perhaps, as he has claimed before, it is “that unless you have significant savings, you’re unlikely to be part of his cunning plan to cut energy bills, but, as my able to afford solar panels”. hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Once more, not my words, but those of Friends of the Glass) has made clear, that attempt will just not work. Earth. The ability to build such a consensus against his own policy is a formidable feat on which I congratulate Andrew George: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the Minister. I would also like to pay tribute to the Minister’s Tom Greatrex: I will make a little more progress and transformational skills. In a few short weeks, he has then I may be able to give way. I am conscious of the managed to turn a policy that was admired, appreciated time and of the Minister needing to respond. and effective into a shambles that is mired in confusion, The important point is that the Government’s policy contradiction and potential legal challenge. However, will also cost: it will cost some of the 25,000 jobs; it will he is a man of great foresight and has the extraordinary cost some of the 3,000 businesses; and it will cost ability to set a consultation with an effective date close people’s confidence in the UK as a place to invest. It is to two weeks before the close of the consultation. It is a shameful to pull the plug on one of the few industries remarkable record from a remarkable Minister. I can providing growth and jobs, which are nowhere else in only look on in awe and wonderment at his abilities and the economy, for the sake of £1 a year on a bill. It is only aspire never quite to plump those depths myself. short-sighted to put at risk 25,000 jobs and, thereby, reduce tax revenues and increase benefit payments for Pat Glass: Does my hon. Friend agree that the issue £1 a year. Throughout the country it will cost community for the consumer is not the £1 each that the feed-in projects, which are being cancelled, co-operative models tariffs will cost, but the fact that the Government have that are being developed, social housing schemes and clearly and demonstrably failed to tackle the big six people’s sense of involvement in electricity generation energy companies that are taking massive and obscene in this country. profits from the British consumer? It would be unfair of me to suggest that the Minister, as much as he has united people in opposition to the Tom Greatrex: My hon. Friend is entirely right. When policy, is without friends. He has a very supportive the Minister, as he is about to do, following the example Secretary of State, with a burgeoning reputation for of the Secretary of State, makes points about consumer collegiate behaviour in government and loyalty to his bills and compares the £1 cost with the £1,345 for the colleagues. He is also known to dabble in Twitter, so I average annual bill, which is 0.08%—less than a tenth of am sure he has made the Minister aware that there is, 1%—I think that the figures speak for themselves. indeed, a SaveGregBarker Twitter feed. It has 18 followers, but perhaps it will have some more after today’s debate. Andrew George rose— There are more than 18 of the Secretary of State’s Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con) rose— hon. Friends who have expressed concern at his Department’s action on feed-in tariffs. However, some Tom Greatrex: I am afraid I am going to make some 24 Liberal Democrats have signed early-day motion 673, progress, because I want to give the Minister time to which states that respond. “the feed-in tariff scheme will provide much needed stability for The Government have endangered an industry in its the expansions of renewables up to…2013.” very infancy and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn made clear, sent to the rest of industry a Andrew George: The Labour motion before us turns signal that is doing the UK a lot of damage. It suggests on its penultimate line, which refers to “more measured that we cannot rely on what the Government say because proposals”. Members from all parts of the House want they will change their position with scant consultation, a more sustainable solution than the current one, but no planning and in an arbitrary way. As E.ON said only what are these “more measured proposals” and how yesterday, they are going to be paid for? “this sort of action creates uncertainty for business, and will have a negative impact”. Tom Greatrex: The hon. Gentleman, as a signatory to The Minister has argued that there is a pressing need early-day motion 673, has expressed his concern about to reduce costs, that installation costs have fallen and those issues, and I will go on to make a couple of that the subsidy must follow, and, despite the Secretary remarks about what we need to do next, following his of State’s best attempt to muddy the waters earlier, no support for the motion before us and that of his colleagues one argues with that—not the solar industry, not consumer who signed the early-day motion. organisations and not the Opposition. Indeed, it might Indeed, the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington take him six months to answer his correspondence, but, (Mr Leech), who is no longer in his place, was quoted as he well knows, trade bodies have argued for months on the Friends of the Earth website last week, saying: 407 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 408

[Tom Greatrex] butcher the entire UK solar industry. In fact, following that statement by the Labour Front Benchers, the “Solar has been the real success story...We can’t afford to deployment of solar technology has risen by more than jeopardise thousands of jobs by slashing the feed in tariff and 300%, and it has risen more than tenfold since the creating uncertainty, giving the industry no time to adjust.” beginning of the year. The statistics are staggering. The hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), a Minister No wonder Which? has stated: no less, says on his website that he has concerns “It’s right that the Government properly controls spending on “about the speed and level of the proposed changes for community Feed-in Tariffs as everyone pays for this scheme through their size projects and I am therefore asking the Secretary of State to energy bills.” examine urgently the case for some flexibility”. No wonder the chief executive of Consumer Focus has The Secretary of State’s own Parliamentary Private said: Secretary, the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan “The Government is taking a sensible approach to protect Hames), quoted in the Financial Times this morning, energy bill-payers with the proposed changes to Feed-in Tariffs. said that we should look at the German model of Incentives to overcome the high set-up cost of solar panels and gradually reducing support rather than, as I described it help make our energy supply greener are necessary. But the cost earlier, jumping off the cliff. for this is passed onto bills of energy customers and we need to If all those friends of the Secretary of State want to strike a balance.” be friends to the Government—I understand their desire, That is exactly what we need to do—strike a sensible however misguided, to support the Government; if they balance between our high ambition for decentralised want to get the Government to right their mistakes; if energy and recognising the costs of what is still the most they want to repair some of the damage of the past few expensive to support of the whole array of decentralised weeks; if they want a sustainable and sensible model for technologies. support going forward; if they want to walk down the Unfortunately, Opposition Front Benchers bury their stairs rather than jump off the landing; if, perhaps, they heads in the sand. The notion that spending billions on want to “SaveGregBarker”, they must vote for the solar would cost no more than £1 on people’s bills is motion this evening. They should look at the wording from cloud cuckoo land. They clearly have not yet got of the motion, which is about having a sustainable, up to speed with their brief. They will know from the sensible, gradual approach rather than making a sudden impact assessment that we published in September that cut that is putting people, jobs and businesses in jeopardy the central estimate is that it would add £28 to bills and leaving consumers high and dry. Let us help rescue every year by 2020. Since then the estimate has risen the Government from the mess that they have made for again, and the higher estimate is £55. We now know, themselves, and support the motion this evening. given the level of deployment in October, that if we did not act now it would add up to £80 to everybody’s 6.50 pm electricity bills. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Tell that to the 5.5 million people whom Labour left Climate Change (Gregory Barker): I believe in the huge in fuel poverty. Let us not dwell on the fact that Labour potential of solar. Like my hon. Friend the Member for cannot add up and are a bunch of deficit deniers. We Sherwood (Mr Spencer), who made an excellent speech, know that because of the state they left the economy in. I believe it is a terrific technology. It is intuitive, dynamic, Some very sensible comments have been made in this attractive to consumers and easy to install, and I am debate, and I am very grateful to all colleagues. determined to see it at the heart of the coalition’s ambitious plans to bring decentralised energy to millions Dr Whitehead: On the impact assessment that the of Britain’s homes, communities and businesses. What Minister himself carried out, does he accept that the is more, unlike the right hon. Member for Don Valley £26 is relevant only if the tariff at its present level (Caroline Flint), I campaigned for it, voted for it and continues until 2015, which was never the scheme’s genuinely believe in it. intention in the first place, on anybody’s reckoning? However, for those of us who are passionately committed Will he withdraw that suggestion and replace it with to the green agenda, there are two great threats in these what is the case in the impact assessment? [Interruption.] difficult economic times. First, and obviously, there are the climate change deniers, but secondly, and I think Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order, Minister. even more dangerously at the moment, there are the Has the hon. Gentleman finished his intervention. Right, deficit deniers. There is no greater bunch of deficit-denying now it is the Minister’s turn. I think that we will decide, opportunists than Opposition Front Benchers, who seem thank you. to think that the green economy lives in a vacuum, immune to the economic realities confronting every Gregory Barker: I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman other sector of the British economy and to the impact is wrong. The impact assessment relates to no change that that has on consumer bills. until April next year, and then there will be degression, The fact is that Labour was wrong to vote against as planned by the Leader of the Opposition when he feed-in tariffs in November 2008. It was also wrong to was in government and set up this poorly conceived introduce them in April 2010 without any budgetary scheme last year. So, as I say, I am afraid that he is control mechanism at all, and wrong to ignore lessons incorrect on that point. from the successful FITs model in Germany. It was We have had some extremely sensible contributions. wrong to ignore totally the potentially huge impact that The one from my hon. Friend the Member for FITs could have on the fuel-poor in particular, and Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), in which he flagged catastrophically wrong earlier this year when it insisted up the impact that the scheme will have on not only fuel that our early review of large-scale feed-in tariffs would bills but the fuel-poor, was absolutely right. Too often 409 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 410 the voice of the fuel-poor is distorted. Yes, it is great for Allen, Mr Graham Farrelly, Paul the few thousand who may benefit from solar panels in Anderson, Mr David Field, rh Mr Frank social housing, but what about the other 5.5 million Ashworth, Jonathan Fitzpatrick, Jim whom Labour left in fuel poverty, who will not benefit Austin, Ian Flello, Robert but would still face the prospect of £80 on their electricity Bailey, Mr Adrian Flint, rh Caroline bills? Go and tell the other 5.5 million people who will Bain, Mr William Flynn, Paul Balls, rh Ed Fovargue, Yvonne be left out how they are going to find the extra £80 if we Banks, Gordon Francis, Dr Hywel do not act now. Beckett, rh Margaret Gapes, Mike My hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Chris Begg, Dame Anne Gilmore, Sheila Kelly) was spot-on in his analysis and my hon. Friend Bell, Sir Stuart Glass, Pat the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) was Benn, rh Hilary Glindon, Mrs Mary right. I am afraid there is absolutely no sign of anything Berger, Luciana Godsiff, Mr Roger that even looks like a “Sorry” from Opposition Front Blackman-Woods, Roberta Goggins, rh Paul Benchers for the mess they made of setting up the Blears, rh Hazel Goodman, Helen scheme. My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Blenkinsop, Tom Greatrex, Tom Falmouth (Sarah Newton) was right: we need to learn Blomfield, Paul Green, Kate Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Greenwood, Lilian the lessons from Labour’s failed scheme, particularly Brennan, Kevin Griffith, Nia because although the feed-in tariff scheme supports Brown, rh Mr Gordon Gwynne, Andrew solar, it also supports a whole range of other technologies. Brown, Lyn Hain, rh Mr Peter We must not forget that. We want a diverse, innovation-rich, Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hamilton, Mr David decentralised energy economy, and there is a lot more to Brown, Mr Russell Hanson, rh Mr David the feed-in tariff scheme than solar alone, important Bryant, Chris Harman, rh Ms Harriet though that is. Buck, Ms Karen Havard, Mr Dai My hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood made Burnham, rh Andy Healey, rh John excellent points about Germany. He was spot-on when Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hendrick, Mark Campbell, Mr Alan Hepburn, Mr Stephen he said that we need to pull solar into the mainstream of Campbell, Mr Ronnie Heyes, David the green economy, rather than leaving it as a bubble in Caton, Martin Hillier, Meg a silo at one side. That is why the launch of the green Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hilling, Julie deal will bring solar into the mainstream. That is a very Clark, Katy Hodge, rh Margaret exciting proposition. The hon. Member for North Cornwall Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hopkins, Kelvin (Dan Rogerson) also made some excellent points, and I Clwyd, rh Ann Howarth, rh Mr George share the view that we need to have a consistent regime. Coffey, Ann Irranca-Davies, Huw [HON.MEMBERS: “ They’re all on your side.”] The hon. Connarty, Michael Jackson, Glenda Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) Cooper, Rosie Jamieson, Cathy listed and spoke at length to Opposition contributions. Cooper, rh Yvette Jarvis, Dan I have very limited time, so I am going to mention those Corbyn, Jeremy Johnson, rh Alan from my hon. Friends first. Crausby, Mr David Johnson, Diana Creagh, Mary Jones, Helen However, I recognise that there is genuine concern Creasy, Stella Jones, Mr Kevan about the implementation of the reference date of Cruddas, Jon Jones, Susan Elan 12 December, and that it will be a real challenge for a lot Cryer, John Jowell, rh Tessa of companies. We did not do this lightly. We have had to Cunningham, Alex Joyce, Eric move quickly in order to protect the budget. Unfortunately, Cunningham, Mr Jim Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald if we had not done so we would have had to do what Cunningham, Tony Keeley, Barbara Labour did in the past and close the scheme completely. Curran, Margaret Kendall, Liz We will not do that. We are protecting the scheme for Danczuk, Simon Khan, rh Sadiq the long term and for sustainability. This is a genuine David, Mr Wayne Lammy, rh Mr David consultation. We are constrained by the budget and by Davidson, Mr Ian Lavery, Ian demand, which is going through the roof, but at the Davies, Geraint Lazarowicz, Mark De Piero, Gloria Leslie, Chris same time, I am listening carefully to the many sensible Denham, rh Mr John Lloyd, Tony representations— Dobbin, Jim Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Dobson, rh Frank Love, Mr Andrew Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab) claimed to Docherty, Thomas Lucas, Caroline move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Question put forthwith, That the Question be now Donohoe, Mr Brian H. MacShane, rh Mr Denis put. Doran, Mr Frank Mactaggart, Fiona Dowd, Jim Mahmood, Mr Khalid Question agreed to. Doyle, Gemma Mahmood, Shabana Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2) Dromey, Jack Mann, John and Order, 14 November), That the original words stand Dugher, Michael Marsden, Mr Gordon part of the Question. Eagle, Ms Angela McCabe, Steve The House divided: Ayes 226, Noes 297. Edwards, Jonathan McCann, Mr Michael Efford, Clive McCarthy, Kerry Division No. 400] [6.59 pm Elliott, Julie McDonagh, Siobhain Ellman, Mrs Louise McDonnell, John AYES Engel, Natascha McFadden, rh Mr Pat Abbott, Ms Diane Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Esterson, Bill McGovern, Jim Abrahams, Debbie Ali, Rushanara Evans, Chris McGuire, rh Mrs Anne 411 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 412

McKechin, Ann Shuker, Gavin Colvile, Oliver Hemming, John McKenzie, Mr Iain Skinner, Mr Dennis Cox, Mr Geoffrey Henderson, Gordon McKinnell, Catherine Slaughter, Mr Andy Crabb, Stephen Hendry, Charles Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, rh Mr Andrew Crockart, Mike Herbert, rh Nick Meale, Sir Alan Smith, Angela Crouch, Tracey Hinds, Damian Mearns, Ian Smith, Nick Davey, Mr Edward Hollingbery, George Michael, rh Alun Smith, Owen Davies, David T. C. Hollobone, Mr Philip Miliband, rh David Spellar, rh Mr John (Monmouth) Holloway, Mr Adam Miliband, rh Edward Stuart, Ms Gisela Davies, Glyn Hopkins, Kris Miller, Andrew Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Davies, Philip Horwood, Martin Mitchell, Austin Tami, Mark Davis, rh Mr David Howarth, Mr Gerald Morden, Jessica Thomas, Mr Gareth de Bois, Nick Howell, John Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Thornberry, Emily Dinenage, Caroline Hughes, rh Simon Morris, Grahame M. Timms, rh Stephen Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Huhne, rh Chris (Easington) Trickett, Jon Dorries, Nadine Hunter, Mark Mudie, Mr George Turner, Karl Doyle-Price, Jackie Huppert, Dr Julian Munn, Meg Twigg, Derek Drax, Richard Hurd, Mr Nick Murray, Ian Twigg, Stephen Duddridge, James Jackson, Mr Stewart Nandy, Lisa Umunna, Mr Chuka Duncan, rh Mr Alan James, Margot Nash, Pamela Vaz, rh Keith Duncan Smith, rh Mr Javid, Sajid Onwurah, Chi Vaz, Valerie Iain Johnson, Gareth Osborne, Sandra Walley, Joan Dunne, Mr Philip Johnson, Joseph Owen, Albert Watson, Mr Tom Ellis, Michael Jones, Andrew Pearce, Teresa Watts, Mr Dave Ellison, Jane Jones, Mr David Perkins, Toby Weir, Mr Mike Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kawczynski, Daniel Pound, Stephen Whitehead, Dr Alan Elphicke, Charlie Kelly, Chris Qureshi, Yasmin Wicks, rh Malcolm Eustice, George Kirby, Simon Raynsford, rh Mr Williams, Hywel Evans, Graham Knight, rh Mr Greg Nick Williamson, Chris Evans, Jonathan Kwarteng, Kwasi Reed, Mr Jamie Wilson, Phil Evennett, Mr David Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reeves, Rachel Winnick, Mr David Fabricant, Michael Lancaster, Mark Robertson, Angus Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Fallon, Michael Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Robertson, John Wishart, Pete Farron, Tim Latham, Pauline Rotheram, Steve Wood, Mike Featherstone, Lynne Laws, rh Mr David Roy, Lindsay Woodcock, John Field, Mark Leadsom, Andrea Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Jessica Ruane, Chris Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Ruddock, rh Joan Francois, rh Mr Mark Lefroy, Jeremy Wright, David Seabeck, Alison Freeman, George Leigh, Mr Edward Wright, Mr Iain Shannon, Jim Freer, Mike Leslie, Charlotte Sharma, Mr Virendra Tellers for the Ayes: Fullbrook, Lorraine Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sheerman, Mr Barry Nic Dakin and Fuller, Richard Lewis, Brandon Sheridan, Jim Graham Jones Garnier, Mr Edward Liddell-Grainger, Mr Garnier, Mark Ian NOES George, Andrew Lilley, rh Mr Peter Gibb, Mr Nick Lloyd, Stephen Adams, Nigel Bray, Angie Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lord, Jonathan Afriyie, Adam Brazier, Mr Julian Glen, John Loughton, Tim Aldous, Peter Bridgen, Andrew Goodwill, Mr Robert Lumley, Karen Amess, Mr David Brine, Steve Graham, Richard Macleod, Mary Andrew, Stuart Brooke, Annette Grant, Mrs Helen Main, Mrs Anne Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Browne, Mr Jeremy Gray, Mr James Maude, rh Mr Francis Bacon, Mr Richard Bruce, Fiona Grayling, rh Chris Maynard, Paul Baker, Steve Buckland, Mr Robert Greening, rh Justine McCartney, Karl Baldry, Tony Burley, Mr Aidan Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McIntosh, Miss Anne Baldwin, Harriett Burns, Conor Griffiths, Andrew McLoughlin, rh Mr Barclay, Stephen Burns, rh Mr Simon Gummer, Ben Patrick Barker, Gregory Burrowes, Mr David Hague, rh Mr William McPartland, Stephen Baron, Mr John Burstow, Paul Halfon, Robert McVey, Esther Barwell, Gavin Burt, Lorely Hames, Duncan Mensch, Louise Bebb, Guto Cable, rh Vince Hammond, rh Mr Philip Menzies, Mark Benyon, Richard Cairns, Alun Hammond, Stephen Mercer, Patrick Berry, Jake Cameron, rh Mr David Hancock, Matthew Metcalfe, Stephen Bingham, Andrew Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hands, Greg Miller, Maria Birtwistle, Gordon Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harper, Mr Mark Mills, Nigel Blackman, Bob Carswell, Mr Douglas Harrington, Richard Milton, Anne Blackwood, Nicola Cash, Mr William Harris, Rebecca Moore, rh Michael Blunt, Mr Crispin Chishti, Rehman Hart, Simon Morgan, Nicky Boles, Nick Clappison, Mr James Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, Anne Marie Bone, Mr Peter Clark, rh Greg Hayes, Mr John Morris, David Bottomley, Sir Peter Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Heald, Oliver Morris, James Bradley, Karen Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Heath, Mr David Mosley, Stephen Brady, Mr Graham Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heaton-Harris, Chris Mowat, David 413 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 414

Mundell, rh David Stephenson, Andrew Baron, Mr John Farron, Tim Murray, Sheryll Stevenson, John Barwell, Gavin Featherstone, Lynne Murrison, Dr Andrew Stewart, Bob Bebb, Guto Foster, rh Mr Don Neill, Robert Stewart, Iain Benyon, Richard Francois, rh Mr Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Stewart, Rory Berry, Jake Freeman, George Newton, Sarah Streeter, Mr Gary Bingham, Andrew Freer, Mike Nokes, Caroline Stride, Mel Birtwistle, Gordon Fullbrook, Lorraine Norman, Jesse Stuart, Mr Graham Blackman, Bob Fuller, Richard Nuttall, Mr David Stunell, Andrew Blackwood, Nicola Garnier, Mr Edward O’Brien, Mr Stephen Sturdy, Julian Blunt, Mr Crispin Garnier, Mark Offord, Mr Matthew Swales, Ian Boles, Nick George, Andrew Ollerenshaw, Eric Swayne, rh Mr Bone, Mr Peter Gibb, Mr Nick Opperman, Guy Desmond Bottomley, Sir Peter Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Osborne, rh Mr George Swinson, Jo Bradley, Karen Glen, John Ottaway, Richard Swire, rh Mr Hugo Brady, Mr Graham Goodwill, Mr Robert Paice, rh Mr James Syms, Mr Robert Bray, Angie Graham, Richard Parish, Neil Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Brazier, Mr Julian Grant, Mrs Helen Patel, Priti Teather, Sarah Bridgen, Andrew Gray, Mr James Pawsey, Mark Thurso, John Brine, Steve Grayling, rh Chris Penning, Mike Timpson, Mr Edward Brooke, Annette Greening, rh Justine Percy, Andrew Tomlinson, Justin Browne, Mr Jeremy Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Perry, Claire Truss, Elizabeth Bruce, Fiona Griffiths, Andrew Phillips, Stephen Turner, Mr Andrew Buckland, Mr Robert Gummer, Ben Pickles, rh Mr Eric Tyrie, Mr Andrew Burley, Mr Aidan Hague, rh Mr William Pincher, Christopher Uppal, Paul Burns, Conor Halfon, Robert Pugh, John Vara, Mr Shailesh Burns, rh Mr Simon Hames, Duncan Burrowes, Mr David Hammond, rh Mr Philip Raab, Mr Dominic Vickers, Martin Randall, rh Mr John Burstow, Paul Hammond, Stephen Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Reckless, Mark Burt, Lorely Hancock, Matthew Walker, Mr Robin Redwood, rh Mr John Cable, rh Vince Hands, Greg Wallace, Mr Ben Rees-Mogg, Jacob Cairns, Alun Harper, Mr Mark Ward, Mr David Reevell, Simon Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harrington, Richard Reid, Mr Alan Watkinson, Angela Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harris, Rebecca Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Weatherley, Mike Carswell, Mr Douglas Hart, Simon Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Webb, Steve Cash, Mr William Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Robertson, Mr Laurence Wharton, James Chishti, Rehman Hayes, Mr John Rudd, Amber Wheeler, Heather Clappison, Mr James Heald, Oliver Ruffley, Mr David White, Chris Clark, rh Greg Heath, Mr David Russell, Bob Whittaker, Craig Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Heaton-Harris, Chris Rutley, David Whittingdale, Mr Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hemming, John Sanders, Mr Adrian John Coffey, Dr Thérèse Henderson, Gordon Sandys, Laura Wiggin, Bill Colvile, Oliver Hendry, Charles Scott, Mr Lee Willetts, rh Mr David Cox, Mr Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Selous, Andrew Williams, Roger Crabb, Stephen Hinds, Damian Shapps, rh Grant Williams, Stephen Crockart, Mike Hollingbery, George Shelbrooke, Alec Williamson, Gavin Crouch, Tracey Hollobone, Mr Philip Shepherd, Mr Richard Wollaston, Dr Sarah Davey, Mr Edward Holloway, Mr Adam Simpson, Mr Keith Wright, Simon Davies, David T. C. Hopkins, Kris (Monmouth) Horwood, Martin Skidmore, Chris Yeo, Mr Tim Smith, Miss Chloe Davies, Glyn Howarth, Mr Gerald Young, rh Sir George Smith, Henry Davies, Philip Howell, John Zahawi, Nadhim Smith, Julian Davis, rh Mr David Hughes, rh Simon Soubry, Anna Tellers for the Noes: de Bois, Nick Huhne, rh Chris Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Norman Lamb and Dinenage, Caroline Hunter, Mark Spencer, Mr Mark Jeremy Wright Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Huppert, Dr Julian Dorries, Nadine Hurd, Mr Nick Question accordingly negatived. Doyle-Price, Jackie Jackson, Mr Stewart Drax, Richard James, Margot Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2) Duddridge, James Javid, Sajid and Order, 14 November), That the proposed words be Duncan, rh Mr Alan Johnson, Gareth there added. Duncan Smith, rh Mr Johnson, Joseph The House divided: Ayes 292, Noes 220. Iain Jones, Andrew Dunne, Mr Philip Jones, Mr David Division No. 401] [7.13 pm Ellis, Michael Kawczynski, Daniel Ellison, Jane Kelly, Chris AYES Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kirby, Simon Adams, Nigel Bacon, Mr Richard Elphicke, Charlie Knight, rh Mr Greg Afriyie, Adam Baker, Steve Eustice, George Kwarteng, Kwasi Aldous, Peter Baldry, Tony Evans, Graham Laing, Mrs Eleanor Amess, Mr David Baldwin, Harriett Evans, Jonathan Lancaster, Mark Andrew, Stuart Barclay, Stephen Evennett, Mr David Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Barker, Gregory Fabricant, Michael Latham, Pauline 415 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)23 NOVEMBER 2011 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 416

Leadsom, Andrea Rudd, Amber NOES Lee, Jessica Ruffley, Mr David Abbott, Ms Diane Ellman, Mrs Louise Lefroy, Jeremy Russell, Bob Abrahams, Debbie Engel, Natascha Leigh, Mr Edward Rutley, David Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Esterson, Bill Leslie, Charlotte Sanders, Mr Adrian Ali, Rushanara Evans, Chris Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sandys, Laura Allen, Mr Graham Farrelly, Paul Lewis, Brandon Scott, Mr Lee Anderson, Mr David Field, rh Mr Frank Liddell-Grainger, Mr Selous, Andrew Ashworth, Jonathan Fitzpatrick, Jim Ian Shapps, rh Grant Austin, Ian Flello, Robert Lloyd, Stephen Shelbrooke, Alec Bailey, Mr Adrian Flint, rh Caroline Lord, Jonathan Shepherd, Mr Richard Bain, Mr William Flynn, Paul Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith Balls, rh Ed Fovargue, Yvonne Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Banks, Gordon Francis, Dr Hywel Macleod, Mary Smith, Miss Chloe Begg, Dame Anne Gapes, Mike Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Henry Bell, Sir Stuart Gilmore, Sheila Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Julian Benn, rh Hilary Glass, Pat Maynard, Paul Soubry, Anna Berger, Luciana Glindon, Mrs Mary McCartney, Karl Spelman, rh Mrs Blackman-Woods, Roberta Godsiff, Mr Roger McIntosh, Miss Anne Caroline Blears, rh Hazel Goggins, rh Paul McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Spencer, Mr Mark Blenkinsop, Tom Goodman, Helen McPartland, Stephen Stephenson, Andrew Blomfield, Paul Greatrex, Tom McVey, Esther Stevenson, John Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Green, Kate Mensch, Louise Stewart, Bob Brennan, Kevin Greenwood, Lilian Menzies, Mark Stewart, Iain Brown, rh Mr Gordon Griffith, Nia Mercer, Patrick Stewart, Rory Brown, Lyn Gwynne, Andrew Metcalfe, Stephen Streeter, Mr Gary Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hain, rh Mr Peter Miller, Maria Stride, Mel Brown, Mr Russell Hamilton, Mr David Mills, Nigel Stuart, Mr Graham Bryant, Chris Hanson, rh Mr David Milton, Anne Stunell, Andrew Buck, Ms Karen Harman, rh Ms Harriet Moore, rh Michael Sturdy, Julian Burnham, rh Andy Havard, Mr Dai Morgan, Nicky Swales, Ian Byrne, rh Mr Liam Healey, rh John Morris, Anne Marie Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Campbell, Mr Alan Hendrick, Mark Morris, David Swinson, Jo Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hepburn, Mr Stephen Morris, James Swire, rh Mr Hugo Caton, Martin Heyes, David Mosley, Stephen Syms, Mr Robert Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hillier, Meg Mowat, David Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Clark, Katy Hilling, Julie Mundell, rh David Teather, Sarah Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hodge, rh Margaret Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John Clwyd, rh Ann Hopkins, Kelvin Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Coffey, Ann Howarth, rh Mr George Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin Connarty, Michael Irranca-Davies, Huw Newmark, Mr Brooks Truss, Elizabeth Cooper, Rosie Jackson, Glenda Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Cooper, rh Yvette Jamieson, Cathy Nokes, Caroline Tyrie, Mr Andrew Corbyn, Jeremy Jarvis, Dan Norman, Jesse Uppal, Paul Crausby, Mr David Johnson, Diana Nuttall, Mr David Vickers, Martin Creagh, Mary Jones, Helen O’Brien, Mr Stephen Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Creasy, Stella Jones, Mr Kevan Offord, Mr Matthew Walker, Mr Robin Cruddas, Jon Jones, Susan Elan Ollerenshaw, Eric Wallace, Mr Ben Cryer, John Joyce, Eric Opperman, Guy Ward, Mr David Cunningham, Alex Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Osborne, rh Mr George Watkinson, Angela Cunningham, Mr Jim Keeley, Barbara Ottaway, Richard Weatherley, Mike Cunningham, Tony Kendall, Liz Paice, rh Mr James Webb, Steve Curran, Margaret Khan, rh Sadiq Parish, Neil Wharton, James Danczuk, Simon Lammy, rh Mr David Pawsey, Mark Wheeler, Heather David, Mr Wayne Lavery, Ian Penning, Mike White, Chris Davidson, Mr Ian Lazarowicz, Mark Percy, Andrew Whittaker, Craig Davies, Geraint Leslie, Chris Perry, Claire Whittingdale, Mr John De Piero, Gloria Lloyd, Tony Phillips, Stephen Wiggin, Bill Denham, rh Mr John Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Pickles, rh Mr Eric Willetts, rh Mr David Dobbin, Jim Love, Mr Andrew Pincher, Christopher Dobson, rh Frank Lucas, Caroline Pugh, John Williams, Roger Williams, Stephen Docherty, Thomas MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Raab, Mr Dominic Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. MacShane, rh Mr Denis Williamson, Gavin Randall, rh Mr John Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Mactaggart, Fiona Wollaston, Dr Sarah Reckless, Mark Doran, Mr Frank Mahmood, Mr Khalid Wright, Jeremy Redwood, rh Mr John Dowd, Jim Mahmood, Shabana Wright, Simon Rees-Mogg, Jacob Doyle, Gemma Mann, John Reevell, Simon Yeo, Mr Tim Dromey, Jack Marsden, Mr Gordon Reid, Mr Alan Young, rh Sir George Dugher, Michael McCabe, Steve Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Zahawi, Nadhim Eagle, Ms Angela McCann, Mr Michael Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Tellers for the Ayes: Edwards, Jonathan McCarthy, Kerry Robertson, Mr Laurence Norman Lamb and Efford, Clive McDonagh, Siobhain Rosindell, Andrew Mr Shailesh Vara Elliott, Julie McDonnell, John 417 Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) 23 NOVEMBER 2011 418

McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sheridan, Jim regrets that the previous administration did not draw on the McGovern, Jim Shuker, Gavin experiences of Germany in setting a sustainable and predictable McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Skinner, Mr Dennis digression of tariffs; further notes that failing to act could add McKechin, Ann Slaughter, Mr Andy £26 to the domestic electricity bill of all consumers in 2020 McKinnell, Catherine Smith, rh Mr Andrew including the 5.5 million people left in fuel poverty by the previous Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, Angela administration; further regrets that the previous administration Meale, Sir Alan Smith, Nick did not introduce a community tariff; believes that the Mearns, Ian Smith, Owen Government is right to bring the tariff levels back in line with the rates of return envisaged; acknowledges that it is right to link Michael, rh Alun Spellar, rh Mr John Miliband, rh David support under feed-in tariffs to energy efficiency and the Green Stuart, Ms Gisela Deal ensuring the most cost-effective carbon abatement measures Miliband, rh Edward Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry are introduced first; supports a consultation on the introduction Miller, Andrew Tami, Mark of a community tariff; and further believes that the Government Mitchell, Austin Thomas, Mr Gareth is putting feed-in tariffs on a long-term, fair and sustainable Morden, Jessica Timms, rh Stephen footing. Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Trickett, Jon Morris, Grahame M. Turner, Karl (Easington) Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): On a Twigg, Derek Mudie, Mr George point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Something happened Twigg, Stephen Munn, Meg to one of my constituents today that is of fundamental Umunna, Mr Chuka Murray, Ian importance, I believe, to all hon. Members regarding Nandy, Lisa Vaz, rh Keith constituents’ access to Parliament. My constituent attended Nash, Pamela Vaz, Valerie a Palestine lobby, similar to one she has attended on Onwurah, Chi Walley, Joan many previous occasions, but on this occasion things Osborne, Sandra Watson, Mr Tom were different. As she arrived at security, a police officer Owen, Albert Watts, Mr Dave confiscated her lobby briefing material and told her that Pearce, Teresa Weir, Mr Mike she was not allowed to have anything of a political Perkins, Toby Whitehead, Dr Alan nature. In fact, she was told that this was a direction Pound, Stephen Wicks, rh Malcolm from the House authorities. The officer then spoke to a Qureshi, Yasmin Williams, Hywel senior officer, who gave the same response. Eventually, Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Williamson, Chris the material was returned to her, but she was told, “Yes, Reed, Mr Jamie Winnick, Mr David Reeves, Rachel we will return this material, but do not do this again.” I Winterton, rh Ms Rosie ask your advice, Mr Deputy Speaker. Was this a direction Robertson, Angus Wishart, Pete from the House authorities? Will you confirm that Robertson, John Wood, Mike constituents are not allowed to have anything of a Rotheram, Steve Woodcock, John Roy, Lindsay Woodward, rh Mr Shaun political nature with them when they attend Parliament? Ruane, Chris Wright, David Ruddock, rh Joan Wright, Mr Iain Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): This is a Seabeck, Alison matter for the staff and the police. The hon. Gentleman Shannon, Jim Tellers for the Noes: will know that we do not discuss security issues or what Sharma, Mr Virendra Graham Jones and has gone on as a matter of security, but he has put his Sheerman, Mr Barry Nic Dakin views on the record. I am sure that the authorities and security will look into the matter, and I am sure that Question accordingly agreed to. someone will come back to the hon. Gentleman now The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as that he has raised it on the Floor of the House. amended, to be agreed to (Standing Order No.31(2) and Order, 14 November). Business without Debate Resolved, That this House notes that the previous administration only DELEGATED LEGISLATION introduced a feed-in tariffs scheme following pressure from Liberal Democrat and Conservative hon. Members; further notes that Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing during the period up to October 2011 over 120,000 UK solar Order No. 118(6)), installations had been completed; further notes that this is three times the deployment expected by the previous administration; CONTRACTING OUT recognises that no commercial-scale solar PV schemes were expected That the draft Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Community by the previous administration; further notes that the cost of PV Infrastructure Levy Functions) Order 2011, which was laid before panels has fallen by at least 30 per cent. since the current tariff this House on 7 September, be approved.—(Bill Wiggin.) was introduced and that the previous administration set the tariff levels for solar PV to deliver a five per cent. index-linked return; Question agreed to. 419 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Bowel Cancer Screening 420

Bowel Cancer Screening off a melody that lasted for nearly two minutes. Madam Deputy Speaker virtually extracted him from the Chamber. Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House I understand that the incident was reported in 25 countries, do now adjourn.—(Mr Goodwill.) and did more for the screening of bowel cancer worldwide than anything that anyone has said since. 7.27 pm I have no future as a surgeon, and I assure the House Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Thank you, Mr Deputy that I have removed the bottom half of my own tie so Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to raise this that there is no possibility of my being extracted from matter in the House. Bowel cancer affects men and the Chamber for being too musical. women, and it is the second-highest killer after lung Let me now make some serious points about the cancer. The debate is, I suggest, both timely and genuinely clinical position. Traditional bowel cancer screening needed. involves the faecal occult blood test, known as the FOB. I have personal experience of the NHS that is probably In the last few years 11 million people in the country too long to list. When I was a jockey, I was saved by a have been offered the test, 6 million have accepted it, gastro-surgeon at Warwick hospital. I hoped I was 120,000 scopes have followed, and 12,000 diagnostic riding the winner at Stratford races, but we turned over findings of cancer have resulted. It is clear from the and the horse ruptured my spleen, perforated my left statistics that lives have been saved. Previously those kidney and broke nine bones in my ribs. I can assure the screened were aged between 60 and 69, but screening House that it hurt a great deal. The surgeon saved my has now been extended to those aged between 60 and life on that occasion. Subsequently, it is well known that 74. It should be noted that the north-east—leading the I had a meningioma in April and was recently given the way, as it does so often in a medical context—was the all clear by Mr Neil Kitchen and the amazing staff at first region to extend the age group. Queen Square hospital in north London. Tragically, take-up of that vital free NHS screening is only 54%, whereas take-up of breast cancer screening is My grandmother was an NHS matron and I have had 74% and take-up of cervical cancer screening is 79%. bowel cancer screening. Certain family members have However, the situation is changing. Professor Wendy had this cancer, so I had the colonoscopy that was Atkin and her team have brought flexible sigmoidoscopy medically advised in those circumstances. I would certainly to the forefront of bowel cancer screening. The results not be an MP were it not for the campaigns I waged on of their 16-year study were definitive. Their randomised behalf of Savernake hospital in Wiltshire, where I was trial, which followed 170,432 people, established that born; that hospital also saved my mum’s life. the flexi-scope examination reduces the incidence of I would like to declare an interest as a taxpayer. The bowel cancer in those aged between 55 and 64 by a NHS’s approach to individual screening is surely an third. Mortality was 43% lower among that group than issue in which we should all be interested—from the it was in members of the control group. point of view of prevention of loss of life and the The flexi-scope test works by detecting and removing maintenance of good health, but also in respect of how growths on the bowel wall, known as polyps, which can NHS funding, which is clearly finite, is spent on preventing become cancerous if left untreated. It can prevent cancer future problems. from developing by removing polyps before they become I pay tribute to the Beating Bowel Cancer regime, to cancerous, and provides long-lasting protection from Cancer Research UK, to the British Society of bowel cancer. Gastroenterology, and to Professor Wendy Atkin, her funders and the 170,000 volunteers who took part in Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I her definitive study of flexible sigmoidoscopy, which is congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this very important known as a flexi-scope. I also pay tribute to Imperial debate. Does he agree that screening for certain kinds of College London, University College London, the University hereditary cancers, such as non-polypsosis colorectal of East Anglia and St Mark’s hospital, and to the cancer, should begin at a much earlier age, and should variety of doctors, constituents, charities and members take place relatively frequently throughout the lives of of the public who have worked so hard to combat this those who are screened? problem and have helped me to prepare for the debate— including the clinicians, particularly Dr Colin Rees. Guy Opperman: I do indeed. I welcome the fact that As a Member of Parliament representing a constituency the guidelines from the National Institute for Health in the north-east, I am proud to say that the north-east and Clinical Excellence have changed to allow screening leads the way in bowel cancer screening. It was the first to become considerably more frequent in such cases. I to complete coverage of an entire region in April 2010. am sure that the Minister will comment on that. Before I embark on the substance of my argument, I Flexi-scope screening will undoubtedly save thousands also make an apology on behalf of my hon. Friend the of lives. FOB screening saved 700 to 1,000 lives a year, Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), who and flexi-scope screening will save about 3,000 lives a sponsored the Beating Bowel Cancer reception in the year. To confirm that, the Government implemented a House last year. Much to his regret, he cannot be here pathfinder project in three areas. Unsurprisingly, two of tonight. He is a good friend of mine, but he is well those areas were in the north-east, this country’s leading known in the House—and, indeed, throughout the world— medical region. The three areas were South of Tyne and for having worn the Beating Bowel Cancer tie, which I Wear and Tees, along with Derby. The pathfinder am now wearing, in the Chamber after that reception. findings are with the Department of Health and have My hon. Friend, who has quite a generous build, was not yet been published, but I can assure the House that, attempting to restrain that generous build with his suit in broad terms, they accord with Professor Atkin’s when he accidentally touched a button on the tie, setting findings. Last October, the Prime Minister announced a 421 Bowel Cancer Screening23 NOVEMBER 2011 Bowel Cancer Screening 422 proposal to pilot the scheme nationally in 2012, but state’s offer to safeguard their health. If only 54% of there are clinical and funding issues that need to be those eligible are taking up this offer, that is a serious addressed. issue that needs to addressed. First, when is the Department of Health going to When should we start screening? I speak as an MP invite bids for the follow-on pilot process, given that whose constituency borders Scotland, and we are often that was supposed to be done in 2011 and it is now told that in Scotland the health care system is much 23 November? better, much more expansive and so much more free. In Secondly, clinicians raise the specific concern that the Scotland, FOB screening takes place at 60, not 50 as it flexi-scope system is only manageable if we have a does in this country and my understanding is that they sufficiency of trained nurse endoscopists, so where are do not intend to take up the flexi-scope screening. we in respect of this crucial training? Even with the Personally, I am yet to be persuaded of the clinical or most amazing piece of equipment, if we do not have the financial basis for screening at the age of 50 given the people to operate and interpret it, it is useless. Under immense task of screening from the age of 55 onwards, this scheme, several hundreds of thousands of endoscopies with all the numbers of people who will go through the will have to be carried out, with colonoscopies to follow system. Although there might be pressure—obviously, in about 10% of cases. Therefore, everything will depend the Opposition Benches are packed—to move towards on training. such screening at 50, there is no clinical or financial basis in the current system to justify such an approach. Thirdly, how does the Department of Health plan to assess its age groups? My understanding is that the I want to address the possible role of private or other current group of 60 to 74-year-olds will have FOB public organisations, suitably supervised, in this process testing, and those aged 55 will have a flexi-scope. That is of change. We need to explore the issue of those whom relatively clear, but what will happen for gentlemen and the state must look after but do not take up the offer of ladies in the 56-to-60 age group is not at all clear. Will screening. It affects both their health and our finite they be offered the flexi-scope as well, or is that to be budget. The state must and will always be the provider based solely on GP referral? Trusts need guidance on of medical services in the future—no one disputes what they are to do with such a large and unknown that—but it must also enable change and encourage number of people, as they need to plan budgets, staffing private or public organisations to help in health care. and much more besides. All acknowledge that the take-up of screening is tragically low, as 46% resist the chance to screen themselves for Fourthly, we need to assess what we are going to do bowel cancer and more than 20% of women resist the with those who have a flexi-scope at 55 and receive the chance to have cervical or breast cancer screening. all-clear and then reach the age of 60. Will we rescreen? Everybody must accept that there is a problem with Anyone who has ever worked in the health industry will that. How can we address that? know that there is “health speak”, and in this case the following question would be asked: “What is the parallel Only the short-sighted or extremely socialist would screening modality for the future?” As always, “health suggest that the state always has the answer to all those speak” is gibberish, but the simple question here is: are problems. What if public sector organisations were to we going to rescreen people who are fine at 55? go the extra mile and care for their employees in a different way? We should bear it in mind that the state spends a fortune training its employees to carry out Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I have also gone their designated tasks, whether they are consultants, through the screening process because of a family history surgeons, endoscopists or nurses. It surely makes sense of cancer. My GP and consultant at that time said the to safeguard one’s assets—that is, one’s employees. Why screening would have to be done again in a year’s time not use the public sector as a lead by making it either and then again a year later, in order to be absolutely mandatory or strongly advisable that all permanent sure. Has the hon. Gentleman considered whether there core workers should have the screening that their health should be checks not just every now and again, but on a deserves and that we ask of the rest of the public? I periodic basis? would suggest that they should lead the way. That follows on from the point that is made about flu jabs Guy Opperman: It is ultimately up to the clinician—which and the prevention of winter problems in hospital. it should be, frankly. The Minister must say how this We should also consider companies; I want to finish policy will be implemented, but it should always be on a localism point. We always criticise employers in clinically driven. this House, but let us say that we had an enlightened Fifthly, trusts need confirmation that the pilot projects employer. Why could they not be allowed or even to be implemented next year will be funded from national encouraged to conduct screening of their workers, in funding. whom they invest so much? There is clearly a benefit to I want to turn briefly to the financial case. The the worker, the employer-employee relationship would researchers behind the Atkin study suggest that the improve as the employee was valued and cared for, and screening programme will reduce the costs associated the state would not necessarily have to pay for the with treating people with bowel cancer. Ministers will health care screening provided to its citizens. I am be aware of the Department of Health-commissioned talking not just about bowel cancer screening, which is report, as set out in the memorably named journal, Gut, quite complex. Breast cancer screening, for example, is in 2006, which suggested that if a screening programme important but not necessarily that difficult. based on this test was effective, it could save an average The cost of such privately paid screening could then of £28 for every person screened. I urge the Minister to be borne in the form of a reclaimable tax break to the follow what a lot of doctors and others have recommended. company, such as an equivalent cut in the cost of the We must understand why people do not take up the company’s local business taxes. That would offer localism, 423 Bowel Cancer Screening23 NOVEMBER 2011 Bowel Cancer Screening 424

[Guy Opperman] Screening is one of the most important means by which cancer—and in the case of bowel cancer, of increased health screening and better care for employees. abnormalities that may lead to cancer—can be Although there might be some data protection issues detected earlier. Research undertaken in Nottingham and concerns about who would pay for the follow-up and Denmark in the 1980s showed that screening men care, it would unquestionably improve the take-up of and women aged 45 to 74 for bowel cancer using the screening. I refuse to accept that there is no mileage in faecal occult blood test could reduce the mortality rate my suggestion, which surely brings true localism and from bowel cancer by 16%. An independently evaluated better screening to the workplace. pilot in Warwickshire and Scotland showed that this In the minute or so I have left, I want to address the research could be replicated in an NHS setting. Based fact that this is men’s health awareness month and on the final evaluation report of the pilot and a formal individual members of the public must take responsibility options appraisal, the programme in England began for their own health. All around us, perfectly sane men screening men and women aged 60 to 69 in July 2006, are sporting moustaches as “Movember” kicks into and I am pleased to say that full roll-out was achieved gear. For too long, men have ignored their health. It is last August. well known that they do not have regular check ups. Experts have estimated that by 2025, about 2,400 The reality is—I am not surprised the House is not lives could be saved every year by the current NHS packed this evening—men do not like to talk about the bowel cancer screening programme. However, I agree prostate or their bowel. As one of the nurses I met in with my hon. Friend that there may be more we could hospitals put it to me: “Men and their bits—they get so do through occupational health interventions. As at precious about them! If men had to go through what 31 October this year, more than 12.2 million kits had women have to go through with cervical cancer screening been sent out and more than 6.9 million had been and pregnancy they would be a great deal more healthy returned. We have to do more to get more returns, but and self aware.” from those returns 10,785 cancers were detected and I praise the television celebrity Chris Evans for his 53,616 patients underwent polyp removal. As my hon. campaign to show that there is no shame and in fact Friend said, polyps that are left untreated can develop great benefit in having bowel cancer screening. The into bowel cancer. Men and women over the age limit shame in such matters exists when people ignore the can request a testing kit every two years, and more than signs and even die through false manliness or ignorance. 145,000 have self-referred to the screening programme in just that way. 7.44 pm As some 15% of bowel cancers—4,893 in 2009—are The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul diagnosed in men and women aged 70 to 74, the NHS Burstow): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member bowel cancer screening programme is currently being for Hexham (Guy Opperman) on securing the debate extended to men and women aged from 70 up to their and on setting out the issues so clearly. Let me just 75th birthday. As at the end of October this year, 33 of confirm the answer that he gave to his hon. Friend the the 58 local screening centres had implemented the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin)—it extension of that programme. When the extension is is the case that the NICE guidance has been changed in fully rolled out by next year, about 1 million more men the way that he said. I hope that helps her. I look and women will be screened each year. forward to reading the Hansard report of his description We know that the evidence for faecal occult blood of his tie and the removal of certain items that would test screening starts at 50, as shown by the trials that have made a noise in the debate had he pressed the have been mentioned. The original programme invited button. only people in their 60s because the risk of bowel cancer My hon. Friend the Member for Hexham has used increases with age. Nearly 85% of bowel cancers arise in this opportunity very well to raise awareness of these people over the age of 60. In the pilot, more than three issues further. There has been good progress in bowel times more cancers were detected in people aged over cancer survival over the past 30 years, with the survival 60 than in those under 60, and people in their 60s were rates for men and women doubling, but it remains a most likely to complete the testing kit. In addition, devastating disease. In 2009, some 32,751 people were there was not enough endoscopy resource to begin the diagnosed with the cancer and 12,691 people died from wider age roll-out. To underline a point that my hon. it. In the vast majority of cases, the earlier a cancer is Friend made, in terms of cost, the 2004 working group diagnosed, the sooner the treatment can begin and the report on NHS cancer screening programmes, which better the outcomes are likely to be. That is why early assessed a number of models for bowel cancer screening, diagnosis of cancer is central to the Government’s found that starting at age 50 ranked fifth—bottom—in cancer outcome strategy and that is why it is vital that terms of cost-effectiveness. we do more to diagnose cancers earlier and improve The national endoscopy training programme has survival rates as a result. allowed us to begin extending the programme to people We are focusing on survival rates because they are a up to age 75. However, this extension to the current much more effective way of addressing and assessing programme, the planned introduction of flexible NHS performance, as they show how good the NHS is, sigmoidoscopy screening, which I will come back to in a compared with other countries, at diagnosing and treating moment, and the move to more investigations of people with cancer. Measures such as cancer mortality symptomatic patients mean that a key priority is to figures are not a good way of assessing the NHS’s increase endoscopy activity. We have begun from a low performance as they are an indicator of both incidence level, as my hon. Friend suggested, with much lower and survival. They indicate more about societal changes rates of endoscopy than many other comparable countries. than about what the NHS has done. For example, colonoscopy rates in England are 8 per 425 Bowel Cancer Screening23 NOVEMBER 2011 Bowel Cancer Screening 426

1,000 population, compared with Scotland, where they In response to my hon. Friend’s third and fourth are 12 per 1,000 population, and Australia, where the questions, the bowel cancer screening advisory committee rate is 21 per 1,000. has advised that people should be invited at age 55, with The Department has undertaken further modelling two reminders, before they become eligible for the faecal work to estimate the demand for endoscopy services up occult blood test programme at 60. People from the to 2015-16. That analysis shows that the NHS will need original trial are being followed up to gain information to increase lower GI endoscopic capacity by 15% a year about the most appropriate faecal occult blood test over the next five years to meet underlying growth and policy for people who have undergone flexi sig screening. the commitments set out in the Government’s cancer We do not have the answer yet, but we are working to outcomes strategy. In response to my hon. Friend’s make sure that we do have a clear answer to assist question, that is how the issue about the work force and physicians. making sure that there is a sufficient supply of nurse The coalition Government’s cancer strategy set out endoscopists is being addressed. our aim to achieve 30% coverage of flexi sig screening Funding for an increased number of endoscopies has across England by 2013-14, and 60% by 2014-15. It is been put into primary care trust baselines, and that is envisaged that full roll-out will be achieved by 2016. We part of the £750 million over four years that accompanies are also looking at other ways in which we can improve the cancer outcomes strategy. While it is primarily for bowel cancer screening. Our cancer outcomes strategy the NHS to take the necessary steps to increase endoscopy sets out how NHS cancer screening programmes will look activity, we are looking at the scope for central support, at how more accurate and easier-to-use immunochemical for example, through service improvement work led by faecal occult blood tests—those are words that one can NHS Improvement. However, we are making a huge struggle with, and I hope Hansard will be kind to investment in our bowel screening programme for people me—can be introduced into the programme, potentially in their 50s, in response to my hon. Friend’s fifth to increase uptake and to provide more accurate results. question about funding. In September 2010, we announced A protocol has been devised to pilot such testing within £60 million of funding for the introduction of a life-saving the programme to assess the feasibility, practicality and new screening method—flexible sigmoidoscopy—in the cost-effectiveness of moving to this new technology. programme. To date our awareness activity has focused on bowel Flexible sigmoidoscopy is an alternative, and a cancer, lung cancer and breast cancer, and we have complementary bowel screening methodology to faecal spent nearly £11 million supporting 59 cancer awareness occult blood. New evidence shows that men and women campaigns and trialling a national bowel cancer campaign. aged 55 attending a one-off flexible sig screening test That campaign is about making sure that people do not for bowel cancer can reduce the risk of mortality from die of embarrassment when it comes to bowel cancer, the disease by 43%, and it can reduce the incidence of and that, if they think there is blood in their poo or if bowel cancer by 33%. Flexi sig involves a thin, bendy they have loose stools, they will go and see their GP and tube, which the doctor uses to look at the inside wall of get a referral for a diagnosis. It is also about Ministers, the bowel and remove any growths—polyps—that are as much as anyone else, overcoming their embarrassment present. Bowel cancer usually develops very slowly from about talking about it. The more we are prepared to polyps, which are called adenomas. By removing them start talking about these embarrassing subjects, the less at an early stage, it is possible to prevent bowel cancer people will die of embarrassment as a result. from developing. We know that the pilot, the Be Clear on Cancer My hon. Friend referred to the randomised controlled campaign, which we launched in January this year and trials conducted by Cancer Research UK, the Medical ran for seven weeks in the east of England and in the Research Council and NHS R&D in 14 UK and six south-west, made a real difference in the number of Italian centres. The study concluded that flexi sig is a people being referred into the programme. The evaluation safe and practical test and, when offered only once of the Be Clear on Cancer campaign to date has shown between the ages 55 and 64, it confers a substantial and that people have become much more aware of the signs long-lasting benefit. Based on the trial figures, experts and symptoms of bowel cancer, people have been very estimate that we could prevent as many as 3,000 cancers supportive of such campaigns by the Government, and every year and save thousands of lives. there has been an increase of about 50% in people over 50 with the relevant symptoms going to see their GP. In 2011, pathfinder sites tested organisational This increase will lead to people being saved. arrangements for the operation of flexi sig screening, I hope this debate has reassured people that the with particular attention to the invitation and appointment Government take bowel cancer screening as a serious process. That will enable optimal strategies to be applied priority. We are determined to save more lives in future in the national pilots. The pathfinder sites were in the and I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this Tees, south of Tyne and Wear, and Derbyshire local important debate. screening centres. We have formal agreements in place to develop the IT system for flexi sig—I hope that that Question put and agreed to. answers my hon. Friend’s first question—and local screening centres will be invited to bid to become pilot 7.56 pm sites early in 2012. House adjourned. 427 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Deferred Division 428

Deferred Division Creagh, Mary Goodman, Helen Creasy, Stella Goodwill, Mr Robert Crockart, Mike Gove, rh Michael SCHENGEN GOVERNANCE Crouch, Tracey Graham, Richard That the Committee takes note of European Union Document Cunningham, Mr Jim Grant, Mrs Helen No. 14357/11, a Commission Communication: Schengen governance Cunningham, Tony Gray, Mr James —strengthening the area without internal border control, No. 14359/ Curran, Margaret Grayling, rh Chris 11, a Draft Regulation amending Regulation (EC) No. 562/2006 Dakin, Nic Greatrex, Tom in order to provide for common rules on the temporary reintroduction Danczuk, Simon Green, Damian of border control at internal borders in exceptional circumstances, Davey, Mr Edward Green, Kate No. 16664/10, a Draft Regulation on the establishment of an David, Mr Wayne Greening, rh Justine evaluation mechanism to verify the application of the Schengen Davies, David T. C. Greenwood, Lilian acquis, No. 14358/11, an amended proposal for a Regulation on the establishment of an evaluation and monitoring mechanism to (Monmouth) Griffith, Nia verify the application of the Schengen acquis, and No. 14142/10, Davies, Geraint Griffiths, Andrew a Draft Council Decision on the full application of the provisions Davies, Glyn Gummer, Ben of the Schengen acquis in the Republics of Bulgaria and Romania; de Bois, Nick Gwynne, Andrew and supports the Government’s approach for stronger governance De Piero, Gloria Hain, rh Mr Peter of the Schengen area whilst safeguarding the Member States’ Dinenage, Caroline Halfon, Robert primary responsibility in matters of internal security; securing an Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hames, Duncan effective evaluation and monitoring mechanism which includes Dobbin, Jim Hamilton, Mr David the UK in respect of Schengen provisions in which the UK takes Docherty, Thomas Hamilton, Fabian part; and supporting the accession of Bulgaria and Romania to Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Hammond, rh Mr Philip the Schengen area as they have met the criteria and standards Doran, Mr Frank Hammond, Stephen required of them under the terms of their Acts of Accession. Dorries, Nadine Hancock, Matthew The House divided: Ayes 461, Noes 23. Dowd, Jim Hancock, Mr Mike Division No. 398] Doyle, Gemma Hands, Greg Doyle-Price, Jackie Hanson, rh Mr David Dromey, Jack Harman, rh Ms Harriet AYES Duddridge, James Harper, Mr Mark Adams, Nigel Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Dugher, Michael Harrington, Richard Afriyie, Adam Brady, Mr Graham Duncan, rh Mr Alan Harris, Rebecca Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brake, rh Tom Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Hart, Simon Aldous, Peter Bray, Angie Dunne, Mr Philip Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Brazier, Mr Julian Durkan, Mark Havard, Mr Dai Alexander, Heidi Brennan, Kevin Eagle, Ms Angela Hayes, Mr John Ali, Rushanara Bridgen, Andrew Edwards, Jonathan Heald, Oliver Amess, Mr David Brine, Steve Elliott, Julie Healey, rh John Anderson, Mr David Brooke, Annette Ellis, Michael Heath, Mr David Andrew, Stuart Brown, Lyn Ellison, Jane Heaton-Harris, Chris Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Brown, Mr Russell Ellman, Mrs Louise Hemming, John Ashworth, Jonathan Bruce, Fiona Ellwood, Mr Tobias Henderson, Gordon Austin, Ian Bryant, Chris Elphicke, Charlie Hendrick, Mark Bacon, Mr Richard Buckland, Mr Robert Esterson, Bill Hepburn, Mr Stephen Bailey, Mr Adrian Burley, Mr Aidan Evans, Chris Herbert, rh Nick Bain, Mr William Burns, Conor Evans, Graham Hermon, Lady Baker, Norman Burns, rh Mr Simon Evans, Jonathan Heyes, David Baker, Steve Burrowes, Mr David Evennett, Mr David Hilling, Julie Baldry, Tony Burstow, Paul Fabricant, Michael Hinds, Damian Baldwin, Harriett Burt, Lorely Fallon, Michael Hodge, rh Margaret Balls, rh Ed Byrne, rh Mr Liam Farrelly, Paul Hollingbery, George Banks, Gordon Cable, rh Vince Featherstone, Lynne Hopkins, Kris Barwell, Gavin Cairns, Alun Field, Mark Horwood, Martin Bebb, Guto Cameron, rh Mr David Fitzpatrick, Jim Howarth, rh Mr George Beckett, rh Margaret Campbell, Mr Alan Flint, rh Caroline Howell, John Begg, Dame Anne Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Flynn, Paul Hughes, rh Simon Beith, rh Sir Alan Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Foster, rh Mr Don Huhne, rh Chris Bell, Sir Stuart Caton, Martin Fovargue, Yvonne Hunter, Mark Benn, rh Hilary Chapman, Mrs Jenny Francois, rh Mr Mark Huppert, Dr Julian Benyon, Richard Chishti, Rehman Freer, Mike James, Margot Beresford, Sir Paul Clappison, Mr James Fullbrook, Lorraine Jamieson, Cathy Berger, Luciana Clark, rh Greg Fuller, Richard Jarvis, Dan Berry, Jake Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Gapes, Mike Javid, Sajid Bingham, Andrew Clarke, rh Mr Tom Garnier, Mr Edward Johnson, rh Alan Birtwistle, Gordon Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Garnier, Mark Johnson, Diana Blackman, Bob Clwyd, rh Ann Gauke, Mr David Johnson, Gareth Blackman-Woods, Roberta Coffey, Ann George, Andrew Johnson, Joseph Blenkinsop, Tom Coffey, Dr Thérèse Gibb, Mr Nick Jones, Andrew Blomfield, Paul Colvile, Oliver Gilbert, Stephen Jones, Mr David Blunt, Mr Crispin Cooper, Rosie Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Jones, Graham Boles, Nick Cooper, rh Yvette Gilmore, Sheila Jones, Helen Bottomley, Sir Peter Crabb, Stephen Glindon, Mrs Mary Jones, Mr Kevan Bradley, Karen Crausby, Mr David Goggins, rh Paul Jones, Mr Marcus 429 Deferred Division23 NOVEMBER 2011 Deferred Division 430

Jones, Susan Elan Morgan, Nicky Sanders, Mr Adrian Tomlinson, Justin Jowell, rh Tessa Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Scott, Mr Lee Tredinnick, David Joyce, Eric Morris, Anne Marie Seabeck, Alison Trickett, Jon Kawczynski, Daniel Morris, David Selous, Andrew Truss, Elizabeth Keeley, Barbara Morris, James Shapps, rh Grant Turner, Mr Andrew Kendall, Liz Mosley, Stephen Sharma, Mr Virendra Turner, Karl Khan, rh Sadiq Mowat, David Shelbrooke, Alec Twigg, Derek Kirby, Simon Mulholland, Greg Sheridan, Jim Twigg, Stephen Knight, rh Mr Greg Mundell, rh David Shuker, Gavin Tyrie, Mr Andrew Kwarteng, Kwasi Munn, Meg Simmonds, Mark Umunna, Mr Chuka Lamb, Norman Murphy, rh Mr Jim Simpson, Mr Keith Uppal, Paul Lancaster, Mark Murray, Ian Skidmore, Chris Vaizey, Mr Edward Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Murray, Sheryll Slaughter, Mr Andy Vara, Mr Shailesh Latham, Pauline Murrison, Dr Andrew Smith, rh Mr Andrew Vaz, rh Keith Lavery, Ian Nash, Pamela Smith, Angela Vaz, Valerie Laws, rh Mr David Neill, Robert Smith, Miss Chloe Vickers, Martin Lazarowicz, Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Smith, Henry Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Leadsom, Andrea Newton, Sarah Smith, Julian Wallace, Mr Ben Lee, Jessica Nokes, Caroline Smith, Nick Walley, Joan Leech, Mr John Norman, Jesse Smith, Owen Walter, Mr Robert Lefroy, Jeremy Offord, Mr Matthew Smith, Sir Robert Watkinson, Angela Leslie, Charlotte Ollerenshaw, Eric Soubry, Anna Watts, Mr Dave Leslie, Chris Onwurah, Chi Spellar, rh Mr John Weatherley, Mike Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Opperman, Guy Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Webb, Steve Lewis, Brandon Osborne, rh Mr George Spencer, Mr Mark Weir, Mr Mike Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Osborne, Sandra Stephenson, Andrew Wharton, James Lidington, rh Mr David Ottaway, Richard Stevenson, John Wheeler, Heather Lloyd, Stephen Owen, Albert Stewart, Bob White, Chris Lloyd, Tony Paice, rh Mr James Stewart, Iain Whitehead, Dr Alan Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Parish, Neil Stewart, Rory Whittaker, Craig Lord, Jonathan Paterson, rh Mr Owen Straw, rh Mr Jack Whittingdale, Mr John Lucas, Caroline Pawsey, Mark Streeter, Mr Gary Wicks, rh Malcolm Luff, Peter Pearce, Teresa Stride, Mel Wiggin, Bill Lumley, Karen Penning, Mike Stuart, Ms Gisela Willetts, rh Mr David Macleod, Mary Percy, Andrew Stunell, Andrew Williams, Hywel MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Perkins, Toby Sturdy, Julian Williams, Roger MacShane, rh Mr Denis Perry, Claire Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Williams, Stephen Mactaggart, Fiona Phillips, Stephen Swales, Ian Williamson, Chris Main, Mrs Anne Pincher, Christopher Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Williamson, Gavin Mann, John Pound, Stephen Swinson, Jo Wilson, Phil Marsden, Mr Gordon Prisk, Mr Mark Swire, rh Mr Hugo Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Maude, rh Mr Francis Pugh, John Syms, Mr Robert Wollaston, Dr Sarah Maynard, Paul Qureshi, Yasmin Tami, Mark Woodcock, John McCabe, Steve Randall, rh Mr John Teather, Sarah Wright, David McCann, Mr Michael Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Thomas, Mr Gareth Wright, Mr Iain McCarthy, Kerry Rees-Mogg, Jacob Thornberry, Emily Wright, Jeremy McCartney, Karl Reevell, Simon Thurso, John Wright, Simon McDonagh, Siobhain Reid, Mr Alan Timms, rh Stephen Young, rh Sir George McFadden, rh Mr Pat Reynolds, Emma Timpson, Mr Edward Zahawi, Nadhim McGovern, Jim Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Robathan, rh Mr Andrew NOES McKechin, Ann Robertson, Angus McKinnell, Catherine Robertson, Hugh Baron, Mr John Hopkins, Kelvin McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Robertson, John Bone, Mr Peter McCrea, Dr William McPartland, Stephen Robertson, Mr Laurence Campbell, Mr Gregory McDonnell, John McVey, Esther Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Campbell, Mr Ronnie Meale, Sir Alan Mensch, Louise Rogerson, Dan Connarty, Michael Nuttall, Mr David Menzies, Mark Rosindell, Andrew Davies, Philip Paisley, Ian Metcalfe, Stephen Rotheram, Steve Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Pritchard, Mark Michael, rh Alun Roy, Mr Frank Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey Reckless, Mark Miller, Andrew Roy, Lindsay M. Shannon, Jim Miller, Maria Ruane, Chris Flello, Robert Sheerman, Mr Barry Mills, Nigel Rudd, Amber Godsiff, Mr Roger Shepherd, Mr Richard Milton, Anne Ruddock, rh Joan Hollobone, Mr Philip Skinner, Mr Dennis Moore, rh Michael Ruffley, Mr David Mordaunt, Penny Russell, Bob Question accordingly agreed to. Morden, Jessica Rutley, David

75WH 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 76WH

know that disabled people face a greater risk of being a Westminster Hall victim of crime than people who are not disabled. There is also evidence that disabled people are more likely to Wednesday 23 November 2011 experience antisocial behaviour, although more research is needed on that to confirm the scale of the problem. That is clearly unacceptable. What is worse, we also [MR JAMES GRAY in the Chair] know that too often disabled people will feel forced to put up with a pattern of harassment, humiliation, antisocial Disability Hate Crime behaviour and low-level criminal behaviour and come Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting to accept it as an inevitable part of their lives. be now adjourned.—(Angela Watkinson.) What may start as relatively low-level harassment all 9.30 am too often escalates, becoming intolerable for the victim. In the worst cases, it can spiral to the point of violence, Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): It is, as even murder, or to a situation in which victims and their always, a privilege to serve under your chairmanship families are simply unable to carry on with their lives. this morning, Mr Gray. I am pleased to have the chance Hon. Members will be all too aware of the shocking to open this debate. case of Fiona Pilkington and her daughter Francecca, Writer and journalist Katherine Quarmby, who addressed whose suffering of persistent harassment and abuse a joint meeting of the all-party groups on disability and ultimately led to their deaths. learning disability in Parliament a couple of months ago, told us that in the course of her research into the subject she had been unable to find much evidence that David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I congratulate disability hate crime had been debated in either House the hon. Lady on obtaining this important debate. in Parliament. I am glad that we are able to put that She has mentioned the issue of attacks on people with right today. disabilities. Does she not agree that there needs to be a campaign to increase awareness of that? We congratulate The issue concerns many hon. Members from across Mencap on its excellent “Stand by Me” campaign, but the House. I am particularly pleased to see the hon. does she not agree that such awareness needs to start Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul back at primary school? Schools need to have a role and Maynard), who has done a great deal of work on this to teach our young people to have respect for people subject, and my right hon. Friend the Member for with disabilities. Stirling (Mrs McGuire), who will be responding to the debate from the Labour Front Bench. I acknowledge the Lord Chancellor’s commitment to Kate Green: Indeed, and I will say a little more about align the tariff for murder where disability is a motivating that. It is an important point that highlights that some or aggravating feature with that for race, religion and of the perpetrators of really shocking instances of sexuality, which he made in response to my amendment abuse and criminal behaviour are very young. Intervening to the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders early to demonstrate to them the absolute unacceptability Bill last month. That amendment enjoyed the support of such behaviour is clearly the right thing to do. of a number of hon. Members from across the House. Cases such as that of Fiona and Francecca Pilkington That commitment was a useful step in the right are of course the extreme, but they exist in a context of direction and one that organisations such as Mencap, rising hostility to disabled people, which fuels abusive the National Autistic Society, the Equality and Human behaviour and leads to an increase in the harassment of Rights Commission and others have been calling for. I them. Recent research for Scope by ComRes has shown welcome the Lord Chancellor’s undertaking and look that 47 % of disabled people feel that attitudes towards forward to hearing in more detail how the Government them had got worse over the past year, with 66% of will progress his commitment. disabled people reporting experiencing aggression, hostility The reality is that sentencing for murder is just the tip or name calling. of a deeply disturbing and significant problem. As the recent EHRC report “Hidden in plain sight” has shown, A study published last month by the Glasgow Media attitudes, behaviours and practices, both institutional Group, which analyses how the media are reporting and individual, are contributing to a growing climate disability in the context of Government spending cuts, of hostility towards disabled people and fall well short reveals a major shift in how disabled people are portrayed, of being a satisfactory response to the harassment of and the negative impact that that is having, both on those people and the commission of crimes against public attitudes and on disabled people themselves. The them. I hope that today’s debate will give the Minister research found a fall in media coverage that described the opportunity to tell us specifically what actions the disabled people in sympathetic and deserving terms, Government are taking to address so-called disability and an increase in the number of articles focusing on hate crime and to tackle one of the nastiest, most disability benefit fraud. Researchers observed an increase disgraceful forms of crime in our society. The coalition in articles portraying disabled people as a “burden” on Government have promised a hate crime action plan, the economy, with some articles even blaming the recession but we are still waiting for it. Disabled people, their on incapacity benefits claimants. families and campaigners are rightly anxious for action Harassment and attacks exist and flourish in that now. context of hostility—a context, it has to be said, to The EHRC reports that around 1.9 million disabled which politicians are helping to contribute. I hope that people were victims of crime in 2009-10. We do not the Minister will acknowledge the derogatory and damaging know how many were victims of harassment, but we do language that has surrounded too much of the debate 77WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 78WH

[Kate Green] what accountability mechanisms will be put in place; how public institutions that fail to take action will be about welfare reform, and will give her commitment compelled to do so; and how Ministers will work with that there is a determination across Government to local government to ensure ownership of the issue at stamp out any negative portrayal of disabled people. local level. Although attitudes and language are important, Secondly, such an approach must be informed and campaigners have rightly identified the need for a much supported by the systematic gathering and monitoring wider, whole-system change. That requires that public of data that spell out the scale and severity of the bodies and the professionals who work in them treat all problem, and by analysis of that data to support and manifestations of disability-related harassment and hate direct policy makers’ attention to where action is needed. crime with the utmost seriousness. Too often, victims We know that there is significant under-reporting of fail to report harassment and attacks, because they are harassment and abuse of disabled people, and there is a unsure to whom they should report them, or because need to improve the recording and reporting of disability they feel that they will not be believed. Too often, when hate crime. attacks are reported, the response of the professionals is Radar has responded to that problem through its to focus on the behaviour of the victim and how that “Stop Disability Hate Crime” project, which is working should change. In other words, they focus on how with disabled people’s organisations and the authorities victims should curtail their lives to avoid finding themselves to develop a national independent disability hate crime in a situation in which they continue to experience reporting centre, which will provide minimum standards harassment. That cannot be right. The priority must be for other such centres, and raise awareness of disability to focus on the behaviour of the perpetrators, to challenge hate crime and incidents and how to report them. The behaviour that is unacceptable, to deal appropriately project also maps the disability hate crime third-party with criminal behaviour and to take all necessary steps reporting sites that already exist or are being established. to prevent it occurring. Also, a survey has been undertaken to find out why disabled people do not want to report disability hate Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I congratulate the crime and what would make them more confident to hon. Lady on securing this debate. She has just made do so. the point about people being subjected to patterns of harassment. Is she hearing from police officers that they The Radar project is an important initiative and I are increasingly conscious that, when younger officers hope that the Government will look carefully at the or officers that are new to an area produce a report and lessons that emerge from it, and at ways of strengthening check the books, they find that that report is the latest the capacity of third-party hate crime reporting centres in a series of reports about harassment being suffered as a valuable way of increasing the incidence of reporting. by a particular individual? It is almost because a report Of course, it will be important that such centres follow forms part of a pattern that the police are inclined to minimum standards, but I know that all right hon. and say, “There is nothing we can do about it”, because hon. Members will welcome Radar’s work in that area nothing has happened about the previous reports. The and look forward to its report, which is due to be police fail to appreciate the cumulative impact of this published early next year. sort of antisocial behaviour and constant harassment. Thirdly, practice at the front line is, of course, vital to Such behaviour and harassment should be a call to ensure that action is taken swiftly to respond to and action rather than a call to indifference. prevent harassment or criminal attacks on disabled people. That requires the engagement, attention and Kate Green: That is an important point and I am sure effort of a range of public institutions. Crucially, those that it is one that the police will also take note of. Too public institutions must work in partnership with each often there is an attitude that nothing can be done other and with disabled people to develop and to implement because the victim is disabled and there is scepticism the right strategies to tackle disability hate crime. That about what disabled victims say. One shocking case, partnership working can enable early identification of quoted in Katharine Quarmby’s book “Scapegoat”, the patterns of behaviour that we have been discussing was that of a blind woman who had been sexually today, which is essential if problems are not to escalate. assaulted, but the response of the police was that it was Today those patterns are too often missed, or cases are not possible to proceed with the case because, of course, dealt with in isolation. As a result, the response of the she had not seen her attacker. authorities can be fragmented, inadequate or too slow. In its report, “Hidden in plain sight”, the EHRC has In its 2009 report on the security of disabled people, proposed a number of important measures to help to the EHRC pointed out that a range of public authorities improve the situation. First, there must be leadership were not playing any preventive role: housing associations, and ownership of the issue across all public bodies. This social care providers, health care providers, the voluntary is not an issue simply for one arm of government. It and community sector and local authorities. Too often, cuts across central Government Departments, local there is an inadequate response to incidents even when government, the criminal justice system, the education they are reported. That must change. Although there system, health, housing, care, transport, employment has been some progress in the response of the criminal and so on. Therefore, a signal from the Minister today justice agencies, action across the piece is needed and it of the seriousness with which the Government regard is in that context that the Government’s action plan will the issue will be important. However, warm words will be so important. not be enough. Disabled people want to know how Ministers will ensure that the issue remains a priority Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the for ministerial attention across Government; what structures hon. Lady on securing this debate and bringing this exist within Whitehall to focus attention and drive action; matter to the Chamber today. Society is always measured 79WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 80WH by how it treats those who are less well-off, and that is lack of access to health services and other support true of individuals as well as of society as a whole. She services, which happened for a number of reasons: has discussed a campaign that she hopes the Government sometimes because of discrimination, sometimes because will support. Does she feel that that campaign should of a lack of communication skills, and sometimes because not only be an England and Wales campaign but a they and other learning disabled women were not campaign that goes to Scotland and Northern Ireland, empowered to express their needs. They repeated that too? If so, perhaps the catalyst to make that happen will there was a need for training for front-line professionals, come from this Chamber today. I ask the Minister to which they strongly suggested should be delivered by consider that point too in her response to the debate. learning disabled women themselves. They identified an additional barrier that they faced, which was dealing Kate Green: That is also an important point, and if with workers who did not have the confidence to deal there is good practice from which we can learn we will with them as learning disabled women. want to learn it in every part of the United Kingdom. Women often want to use mainstream services where The Government’s action plan will need to include they can, but feel that the staff are often not equipped action on developing a better understanding of the to support them. In her role as Minister with responsibility motivations of perpetrators of disability hate crime, for disabled people, I hope that the hon. Lady takes and of the interventions that are effective in changing these points up urgently with colleagues in the relevant such behaviour. It must be a priority to develop appropriate Departments, and urges them to engage directly with interventions that can be made in schools, which have learning disabled women in formulating Government already been mentioned, in the criminal justice system, policy. through family and community programmes, and in I want to put on record my gratitude to the disabled other settings. I hope that the Minister will be able to people and their families who have taken the time to tell us what analysis and action the Government are describe to me the deeply distressing, shocking and considering with regard to those interventions. vicious attacks they have experienced, and how the The action plan must also address the need for proper system has sometimes let them down. I also want to training of front-line professionals who may be required thank the families of Keith Philpott and Gary Skelly, to recognise and respond to issues of disability-related members of the Disability Hate Crime Network, Simon harassment. Such training must include training in Green and Stephen Brookes, and the women I met at communication skills and understanding and recognising Change. Their stories of abuse, violence and in some signals of abuse. I hope that the Minister will be specific cases death, have brought home to me that there remains today about the steps that the Government are taking a dark and primitive side to our attitudes to disabled to make progress on those matters and I look forward people, which still too often manifests itself in harassment to hearing her response. and criminal behaviour that simply cannot be tolerated in any civilised society. I am pleased that we are debating Before I conclude, I want to highlight one especially the issue this morning. It must not remain hidden in vulnerable group of victims—those people with learning plain sight. disabilities who have experienced sexual violence or abuse. All too often in those cases, the perpetrator is a partner, a family member or a carer, so the attack is 9.50 am compounded by an abuse of intimacy and a breach of Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): the victim’s trust. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston A shockingly high proportion of women with learning (Kate Green) on securing this debate on a very important disabilities have experienced sexual abuse. The problems issue. that other victims of disability hate crime experience I, too, met the family of Gary Skelly on Monday, and are magnified for these women by their not being believed, we watched the 15-minute video they have put together by professionals not knowing how to address the issue, as part of their FACE Facts campaign. Gary Skelly, a and by abuse continuing and escalating over a long 53-year-old man who lived in Norris Green, Liverpool, period, which happens all too often. was attacked just over a year ago—punched for no During the summer, I attended a conference with a obvious reason, and killed. The perpetrator was sentenced group of learning disabled women to discuss the measures to seven years for manslaughter, so, unfortunately, even that are needed to address that form of abuse. The the amendment that the hon. Lady and I have tabled to conference was jointly organised by the rape crisis centre the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders in my own borough of Trafford, Salford university and Bill would not have given him the sentence I feel he Change, an organisation that is run by and for learning deserved. What happened left the family not just bemused disabled people. and confused, but greatly distressed. They simply could The learning disabled women present at the conference, not understand what had happened to someone about who themselves were victims of sexual abuse, were whom they, and many in the community, cared greatly. absolutely clear about the action that is needed. I should I consider myself relatively fortunate in Blackpool, in say that they were also prepared to acknowledge that that I have an excellent third-party reporting centre and there have been improvements in parts of the criminal the Disability Hate Crime Network is very strong. The justice system, including better awareness among the hon. Lady has already mentioned Stephen Brookes, one police, greater understanding of their circumstances of my constituents, who helps up and down the land in and their needs by the Crown Prosecution Service, and ensuring that the fight to have this form of hate crime greater responsiveness from the courts. However, they recognised is prosecuted as widely as possible. Yet I can also highlighted the need for specialist advice and support still be shocked. About six months ago, a father and his to be much more widely available. They spoke about a son came to one of my constituency surgeries. The son, 81WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 82WH

[Paul Maynard] people should face, proposed in our amendment. That incident brought home to me the vulnerability of such in his early twenties, had had a serious car crash a few people. years previously and now has a developmental learning There are things that the Government can do, and I disorder. He was trying to go to college, but faced abuse urge Ministers to consider them. It is vital that the from neighbours and cat-calls as he walked there, and Government take on board, as Mencap is requesting, was now dropping out. I thought, “My word, even in the Law Commission proposals to extend the definition Blackpool, where we are really trying, this is still occurring.” of harm to include exploitation, particularly financial But what really shocked me most was that it was occurring exploitation. I hope that when we see a social care Bill, not in my constituency, but in my own road, where I we can put the adult safeguarding boards on a statutory live, and had been going on for many months without basis. Sadly, no organisational structure can stop evil my being aware of it, not 100 yards from my front door. occurring in a person’s head, but we can try to do Such incidents are hidden in plain sight, as the title of something to ensure that when we identify people at the Equality and Human Rights Commission report risk, the different agencies involved are at least made makes clear. It is probably happening in very close aware of what is going on. If people are talking to proximity to where we all live, and we might not be people, and agencies are talking to agencies, we will at aware of it. least have some hope that, just maybe, solutions can be I want to focus today on an aspect of disability hate found. crime that does not yet get sufficient attention: the needs of many people with learning disabilities, who are Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): I am most subjected to what is increasingly being called mate grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and to crime. Why has it developed? Some 50 years ago, society’s my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston answer for many people with learning disabilities was to (Kate Green) for securing the debate. Is he aware of a shut them away out of sight—hide them away, so society recent case in, I think, Bristol? A gentleman with learning did not have to confront them. Ensuring, rightly, that disabilities went into a barbers, and the barber thought they live fulfilling lives in their local communities, it amusing to shave “fool” on his head—an unbelievable participating in everything we all do, has put them at story. I cannot remember the details, but the punishment risk from a few ignorant individuals who do not understand was lamentably low. what a learning disability is. That makes them vulnerable. The hon. Lady mentioned the types of press coverage that we see. I welcome the fact that serious examples of Paul Maynard: I thank the hon. Lady for that classic disability hate crime are now being covered and referred example of how unfeeling and insensitive individuals to as such, but what we do not hear about every day is can be. I hope that the punishment is that the local the so-called friend who relieves someone of a £10 note. community boycotts that barber, because he does not That might not seem a particularly large crime, certainly deserve to have any customers if that is how he treats not in financial value, but if a so-called friend of someone them. with a learning disability abuses their trust, that is a far A more fundamental issue that I am concerned greater crime, in human value, than if they were stealing the Government are not approaching properly is the £1 million. It is not just a financial crime; it is an attack philosophical status of day care centres. That might on the person’s humanity and identity. seem like a slightly obtuse point to make, but in many Something that the Skelly family stressed to me on social services departments these days, the day care Monday—indeed, we began the discussion by talking centre seems to be an unfashionable creation. Some about it—was the labels that people put on others. Yes, want people to be out in the community all the time, as society is very complex, and I am sure that we all find it though a day care setting somehow denied them the difficult to deal with at times, but it is much more right to be in the community. That concerns me greatly. difficult for someone with a learning disability. We For many people with a learning disability, particularly apply these labels to try to help ourselves to simplify the those of an older generation, a day care setting offers world around us and to help us to understand things the very support network that so many of them crave, that might be at the margins of our understanding, and in pursuit of which they often put themselves at about which we know we ought to think in a particular risk from so-called friends. way. We put the labels on them, then think we understand I urge the Minister to consult with her colleagues to them. The labels are often the beginning of a prejudice—a ensure that day care centres are not written out of the way of assuming that someone acts in a certain way or picture. We have an excellent one in Blackpool called that they are a particular way because of how they are. the Rock Centre, which is indeed a rock for many in the That is perhaps the most dangerous thing we do in our community. Although the activities that people there society. We cope with the people at the margins—people engage in might not strike us as terribly meaningful— we do not quite understand—by just putting labels on them. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I thank my hon. Two or three months ago, we heard about the sentencing Friend for allowing me to make a quick point; I very of the murderers of Gemma Hayter, a lady in Rugby much support what he says. One challenge of disability with a learning disability who had gone to visit her and learning disability is that people in Whitehall and so-called friends and had been tied up, locked in a the professions often think that they know best. For the toilet, forced to drink her own urine, led to a railway past 15 years, the direction of travel has been to reduce line, wrapped in plastic bags and stabbed to death. Her day care. I endorse totally what he says: for a lot of attackers got the sentence they deserved, but sadly they disabled people, particularly those with learning disabilities, could not face the 30-year tariff, which I believe such the reduction in day care centres has reduced their 83WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 84WH quality of life. I support him in pushing the Minister to abuse suffered by disabled people, and provision should ensure that that understanding filters through to the be made to safeguard all disabled people who suffer professions and Whitehall. from any sort of disability hate crime. Types of hate crime vary substantially, as we have Paul Maynard: I thank my hon. Friend for that heard. Murder and physical abuse are the most hard-hitting comment and agree wholeheartedly. It struck me when I and widely publicised. However, name-calling and general spoke to users of the Rock that they feel happy, fulfilled harassment build up over time and can cause long-lasting and, above all, safe and secure in that environment. psychological damage to the victim, as was seen in the That is surely what we want for the most vulnerable in case of Fiona Pilkington, who, sadly, killed her learning- society: that they feel safe and secure, that they are not disabled daughter and herself after years of abuse. placed at risk and, most importantly, that anyone who Another, relatively recent phenomenon, referred to by dares to presume that they can inflict their prejudices the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys, is and their crippled attitude to human life on those mate crime, in which perpetrators falsely befriend disabled vulnerable individuals feels the full force not just of the people and exploit them financially, physically or sexually. law but of the local community’s criticism and Sentencing for disability hate crime should be comprehensive condemnation. enough to safeguard against all those forms of crime. The Government have also announced that they 10.2 am will reform section 146 of the 2003 Act, which imposes sentence uplifts for crimes aggravated by protected Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) characteristics such as disability. Section 146 is widely (Lab): It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, unenforced: only 1,200 cases of disability hate crime Mr Gray, and to follow the hon. Member for Blackpool have been prosecuted, compared with 48,400 racist and North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who always speaks religious hate crimes. However, the Ministry of Justice in an informed way. Today was no exception. I join him has said that the Act will be updated so that where any in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford offence is shown to be motivated by hostility towards and Urmston (Kate Green) on obtaining the debate at the victim on the grounds of transgender, race, religion, an important time, and on her excellent speech. I hope sexual orientation or disability, sentences must be more that she will forgive me if I re-emphasise some of her severe. The implication is that the law will be strengthened points, each of which was well made. so that courts “must” impose a sentence uplift, thus Disability hate crime is a big issue, affecting about removing their discretionary power. Will the Minister 60% of all disabled people in the UK. Within that clarify the situation? I would welcome that. number, people with learning disabilities are hugely Another issue that must be addressed is the power of affected: according to Mencap, nine out of 10 say that the Attorney-General to review sentences deemed unduly they have been bullied, harassed or harmed because of lenient. That power does not extend to sentences for their impairment. I should declare that I am the joint disability-motivated offences, which creates an inconsistent chair, with Lord Rix, of the all-party parliamentary picture in the legislation on disability hate crime. There group on learning disability. is a possible implication that disability hate crime is not The recent Equality and Human Rights Commission as much of a priority as other strands of hate crime report “Hidden in plain sight” suggested that disability such as race or religion, important though those are. harassment is so common that many have come to Disability hate crime must be recognised as an equal accept it as part of their everyday lives. The report also issue across all forms of sentencing. found that numerous agencies, including the police, the courts, the Crown Prosecution Service and local authorities, Mark Durkan: My right hon. Friend rightly highlights have failed to recognise disability hate crime and respond the fact that the Attorney-General can review lenient effectively when it happens. sentences for racial or religiously aggravated attacks, Mencap’s “Stand by me” campaign aims to rectify even where the offence is relatively minor, but the law the issue by encouraging police forces to give greater insists that disability-aggravated crime may be reviewed attention to disability hate crimes and promoting the need only if it is most serious. Does that not essentially for Government to do more to achieve improvement. In put the law and the Attorney-General in the Sepp June this year, I had the privilege of hosting a reception. Blatter position of saying, “Yes, it’s wrong, but it’s I was delighted that the Minister was there, as I am not really serious; it’s unacceptable, but it’s somehow always delighted when she is present. I hope that my understandable.”? right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), whom I am delighted to see back in a post to which she Mr Clarke: My hon. Friend’s point is salient and I am is eminently suited, feels equally welcome. sure that we all take it on board. It is essential that the The Government committed to publishing a hate issues under discussion are dealt with as part of the crime action plan, but there is no evidence of it yet, Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders although it is essential if we are to achieve strategic Bill; otherwise, the opportunity for disability hate crime direction and a co-ordinated approach to tackling hate to achieve the type of parity for which we are calling crimes, such as those aggravated by disability. Sentencing will pass. is a key issue that has been raised. Recently, the Government What needs to happen? I acknowledge the Home announced their intention to equalise minimum sentences Office directive on collecting figures on disability hate for murders aggravated by disability as part of schedule crime. That could achieve a better understanding of the 21 to the Criminal Justice Act 2003. I welcome that national picture, taking in every part of the United strongly, of course, but it does not mean the end of the Kingdom. However, more needs to be done to be proactive, issue. Murder is just one part of a huge spectrum of even beyond that. 85WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 86WH

[Mr Tom Clarke] for them. The more we treat disabled people like those of us who are not disabled, the more likely society as a Police forces need better to understand disability, whole is to follow that example and move away from including learning disability, so that they can effectively treating them as almost subnormal or abnormal. support victims of disability hate crime. That includes flagging up repeat cases of disabled people being victims Mr Buckland: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman of abuse. Mencap’s police promise initiative, for example, for dealing with a point that I was about to address and encourages police forces to sign up to a list of pledges to that has been alluded to by other Members. The focus show their commitment to tackling disability hate crime. needs to be shifted away from always analysing a case’s Courts and the criminal justice sector should employ evidence by looking at the victim, and towards the special measures, as per the Equality and Human Rights wrongdoing and what the offender has done. That Commission’s recommendations in the “Hidden in plain welcome shift of emphasis was displayed in guidance sight” report, better to accommodate disabled people. issued by the Crown Prosecution Service to prosecutors That includes effective support for witnesses, which can in England and Wales in March 2010. It is similar to the be crucial in so many cases. shift in focus that occurred some years ago in relation to It is also hugely important to tackle wider public domestic violence. People used to ask of the victim, attitudes about disabled people, as hon. Members have “Why did she stay with him?”, instead of focusing on mentioned. There is a lot in the media about people the behaviour of the perpetrator, which, I am glad to being “benefit scroungers”, and disabled people are say, is what is now happening in cases of domestic often deemed guilty by association, which breeds contempt abuse. The same must happen in relation to disability. among the public, some of whom perceive disabled The danger we face in focusing on the victim and people to be cheating the system to ensure that they get their behaviour is that in assuming that all disabled state handouts. That is wrong and unacceptable. people are vulnerable just because of their disability, we I again welcome the debate and congratulate my hon. start asking dangerous questions, such as, “Why don’t Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston on they avoid these situations? Why do disabled people put securing it. I strongly believe that we should face the themselves in that position in the first place?” By asking issues and problems of sentencing and respond accordingly, those dangerous questions, we are at risk of driving and her debate today has given us a wonderful opportunity disabled people back into their homes and into institutions, to focus on that. and away from mainstream society. That is wrong and I hope that today’s debate will give a clear message to the Government that we must avoid it. We are in danger of 10.12 am being as bad as the people in ages past who used to Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): It is an apply the dunce’s cap to disabled people in the classroom. honour and a pleasure to take part in this debate. I am Such attitudes lead to other dangerous assumptions, grateful to the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston such as that of some involved in the criminal justice (Kate Green) and congratulate her on securing it. I was system that disabled people are somehow unreliable or present in the main Chamber when she managed to incredible witnesses, simply because of their disability. secure the important concession from the Lord Chancellor That is another dangerous and fatal assumption, which, on schedule 21 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003. I pay I am afraid, has played far too great a part in the tribute to her and to my hon. Friend the Member for criminal justice system and has prejudiced and stopped Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) for cases involving disabled people. It has ended in miscarriages their work. They will be glad to know that, as well as the of justice involving disabled people. Members present, those in another place, particularly I have mentioned the guidance, which was welcome. Lord Touhig, have played a key part in changing the It followed a speech made by Lord Macdonald when he Government’s mind. We met the Under-Secretary of was Director of Public Prosecutions, which I think State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate helped to clarify the CPS’s position and its understanding (Mr Blunt), only some 10 days prior to that concession, of disability. I welcomed his comments about the concept to press the case on schedule 21, and I am delighted that of hate. We have to be careful when using the word the Government have moved so swiftly to regularise the “hate”; we must make clear what it covers. The danger position. with the word is that hate is an extreme concept, so we That, of course, gives rise to the question: why not think that there cannot be many people in our society move in other areas? Why not regularise the law so that capable of it. The definition, however, is a wider one, disability hate crime is treated in the same way as an and includes hostility or prejudice. What does that aggravated offence, as is the case with race or religion? mean? There are other words for hostility, such as That would require an amendment to primary legislation, unfriendliness, antagonism, meanness and sheer ignorance. and yes, I know it would be a big step, but it would be That is particularly important when we consider that an important one. If we are making concessions elsewhere, many acts are perpetrated over a long period. We have we should regularise the law in that area as well. We heard about many sad cases, both today and elsewhere, treat equalities as a single concept now and we have an that involve the victims of a crime finally suffering the Equality and Human Rights Commission. last straw that broke the camel’s back. It is important to remember that “hate” has a wide definition and involves Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): a whole section of attitudes that I believe are bred from Surely moving beyond schedule 21 means that, as a ignorance and sheer lack of understanding of the needs society, we should ensure that we do not seem to treat of disabled people. That leads to offences that take disabled people as a people apart, almost saying that place on many levels; low-level offences can cause so different attitudes, legislation and approaches are required much misery to the lives of disabled people. 87WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 88WH

We have been rightly reminded of the provisions of the victim was saying. It was a most encouraging exercise, section 146 of the 2003 Act. To be fair to the drafters not only in achieving a fair result, but in making sure of that welcome provision, it says that the court “must” that the voice of that person was heard. treat the fact that the offence was committed in an The role of intermediaries should be expanded and aggravating way when the offender, immediately at the encouraged, not viewed as an unusual event in our time of the offence, or before or after it, demonstrated courts. I think that there was an instinctive suspicion hostility based on the disability or presumed disability among practitioners that somehow the use of an of the victim. The provisions are there; they are mandatory. intermediary would dilute the victim’s evidence, or would The problem is with the previous stage, because there in some way interfere with the process of giving evidence. must be evidence of hostility beforehand, which is Those concerns are unfounded. People should think of where the work of prosecutors becomes extremely intermediaries as officers who help the court, rather important. than people who somehow manipulate or interfere with The guidelines include a welcome set of considerations the evidence. That is not my experience, nor that of that all prosecutors should consider when reviewing many other people who have successfully used cases involving disability. They are the sort of factors intermediaries. To put it bluntly, if the intermediary that we have discussed today, such as previous incidents had not been there to assist the witness in that very involving the victim and the offender. Are the incidents serious offence of rape, I do not believe that we would escalating in severity or frequency? Is the targeting have secured a conviction. I am grateful to the hon. becoming systematic and regular, rather than opportunistic Gentleman for raising that point. offending? On the status of the offender, we have heard It has already been said that in the past four years, about so-called “friends” who befriend people and then despite the fact that there are 10 million disabled people manipulate the circumstances. A lot of proper questions in the UK, only 1,200 cases of hate crime have been are being asked in the guidelines. The key now is to prosecuted. On the basis of a recent Scope survey, ensure that in every case, those considerations are applied, conducted in May 2011, that is an incredibly low figure. looked at and checked in each case file. The survey revealed that almost 60% of disabled people Key actions could be taken now to help both prosecutors had experienced hostility, aggression or violence due to and sentencers. For example, section 146 should be their impairment, and that half of disabled people said flagged up as a consideration in every case file, so that that they experience hostility on at least a weekly basis. when prosecutors assess and prepare the evidence, any Almost 40% of disabled people said that hostility had sentencer is aware of it. In open court, the prosecuting got worse in the past year. If we extrapolate those solicitor or barrister should remind the court of their figures, we see that millions of people are suffering in powers under section 146. Such nuts and bolts practical silence or, when their voice is heard, that the situation is measures could see the sort of increase in the use of not being effectively dealt with by the authorities. section 146 that was rightly referred to by the right We have come a long way since society wished to hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill institutionalise disabled people and wholly shut them (Mr Clarke), and which we all want to happen. out from the mainstream, but we still have a long way to Court practitioners and judges need more training on go to ensure that when disabled people, rightly, access disability issues, most notably the use of section 146. mainstream life, they do not become vulnerable because The key point that I found, depressingly, time and time of the circumstances in which they put themselves. We again is that the equation between disability and reliability must all, as a society, stop asking these dangerous has to be broken. We have to break that link in the questions: why do they come out into the mainstream hearts and minds of those involved in the system. and why do they put themselves in those positions? Let us focus on the offender. Let us focus on the offending. With that approach, we can achieve real results in the Mark Durkan: In respect of the whole question of field of disability hate crime. sentence uplifts, the ECHR report stated that sentence uplifts have never been applied to any prosecution of rape or sexual assault where the victim was a disabled 10.25 am person. Is the point about the question of unreliability Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): I start by of people as witnesses, which the hon. Gentleman has adding my congratulations to the hon. Member for just made, a factor in that? Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) on securing the debate. I recognise that she has long been a champion Mr Buckland: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I on the issue. As someone who sat on the Legal Aid, will address his point directly. There is no doubt in my Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill Committee, mind that prosecutors who face a case where the victim I welcome the Government’s announcement that they has disabilities feel that somehow the prosecution will will table amendments in the House of Lords to offer be an uphill struggle. Far too often, the use of special disabled victims of crime the same protection as those measures is not considered as much as it should be. For who are targeted because of their race, religion or example, in a case that I was involved in, a person with a sexual orientation. The provisions were pushed for by moderate learning disability was the victim of a rape. the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston and by my Through the help of an intermediary, the person was hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and able to give evidence through a video link and a conviction Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). was secured. The intermediary was a speech and language Although I am particularly pleased to learn that the therapist. She was not only able to give confidence to Government will be tabling those amendments, I hope the victim, but was there to assist the court if there that they will seek to build on experience north of the was any ambiguity or lack of clarity to the jury in what border. In 2010, Scotland became the first country in 89WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 90WH

[Mike Crockart] predecessor, John Barrett, in April 2008, the then Home Office Minister, the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Europe to have specific disability hate crime legislation Coaker) said: on its statute book. The Offences (Aggravation by Prejudice) “The Home Office is responsible for the police recorded statistics. (Scotland) Act 2009 makes provision for statutory Statistics are collected on the number of racially or religiously aggravations that can be attached to offences motivated aggravated offences but no information is available on those by prejudice towards disabled or lesbian, gay, bisexual offences which are specifically ‘disability hate’ crimes.”—[Official and transgender people, and requires courts to say what Report, 29 April 2008; Vol. 475, c. 330W.] impact, if any, those aggravating factors have had on I welcome what the Government have already done, sentencing. specifically the coalition commitment to improve the recording of such crimes. Since April 2011, all police In Scotland, any criminal offence that is partly or forces now report hate crimes centrally. Published data wholly motivated by prejudice on such grounds is to be from the Association of Chief Police Officers show dealt with as a hate crime all the way through the increases in the number of disability hate crimes reported system. For example, the offence could be assault, in 2010—a 21.3% increase on the recorded figures in vandalism, verbal threats, abuse that could be charged 2009. This must be one of the few areas where we can as breach of the peace, or any other crime. If the person welcome a large increase in reported crime, as it shows committing the offence uses disability-prejudiced language, that the push for people to report the crimes is having or if there is any other evidence of a prejudiced motive, an effect. that makes it a hate crime. If anyone witnessing a crime thinks it was a hate crime, the police must record it as a I await the promised hate crime action plan and the hate incident. If there is any evidence of a hate motive—for Government response to the Equality and Human Rights example, prejudiced language—it will be charged as a Commission inquiry, but it is positive that the issue is hate crime. If the person charged is found guilty, the finally receiving the attention that it deserves, although hate motive will be taken into account in sentencing, of course it is a shame that this or any Government and the court must say publicly what difference the hate have to tackle it at all. Such horrific cases as the killings motive made to the sentence. of Brent Martin, Steven Hoskin or Fiona Pilkington should assault our consciousness as a decent society and daily remind us how serious the situation can Kate Green: It is interesting to hear about the experience become if left unchecked. As the Equality and Human in Scotland, from which I am sure we can learn. I was Rights Commission noted in its “Hidden in plain sight” very interested in what the hon. Gentleman said—that inquiry, we need to look at preventive strategies alongside if anyone identifies the crime as a hate crime it must be any legislative changes, ensuring that we nip in the bud treated as a hate crime. Is it not also important to such attitudes and behaviours before they escalate. We recognise that although victims themselves often specifically also need to address the wider geographical, social and exclude the possibility that it was a hate crime, that in economic factors, identified in the Commission’s research, itself should not be taken at face value, because there that can leave disabled people and others at greater risk. may be all sorts of pressures on them not to identify it A change of attitude in this country is vital. After all, as such? it is not disabled people who create their oppression, it is others. As previously said, and as Sir Ken Macdonald Mike Crockart: I absolutely agree. In fact, the hon. so eloquently argued in one of his final speeches as Lady’s intervention feeds very nicely into my next point. Director of Public Prosecutions, we must overcome a Twenty years ago, when I was going through basic prevailing assumption that disabled people’s intrinsic training as a police officer, racial incidents were going vulnerability explains the risk that they face, an assumption through the self-same process. When someone was the unsupported by evidence. At best, that had led to target of a racial incident and did not necessarily feel protectionism, constraining rather than expanding the that it was one, the fact that someone else had witnessed individual freedom and opportunity that greater safety the incident was sufficient to make it a racial incident. and security should provide. Only by extending the That was the test that I was taught to use 20 years ago. I same expectations of safety and security to disabled have to admit that at the time it felt excessive, but it was people as to everyone else can we truly address the only thus that such crimes and incidents became generally deficits in our current approach and wake up to the unacceptable. In that way, there was a move to general need to act. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s agreement that much of the racist language of the ’70s comments on those points as well. and ’80s, which was tolerated by the silent majority, was I am a member of the Joint Committee on Human derisive and abusive. Such a move is required in attitudes Rights. We are currently finishing an inquiry into to disability hate crime, and is massively overdue. I trust independent living, which has looked at various aspects that the Minister will be able to assure us that the such as access to welfare, housing and employment and amendments that the Government have now promised the differences in provision between different local to table in the Lords will go further and build on the authorities and nations. We have even had the Minister experience in Scotland, affording a similar level of along recently to answer various questions about protection in England and Wales. Government policy. However, I now realise that we have omitted investigation of a basic element. A constituent The announcement from the Government signals part of ensuring access to independent living is laid out recognition, welcome to us all, of the need to tackle in article 3 of the universal declaration of human rights: those despicable crimes. It is also heartening for me to help push forward the agenda that my predecessor in “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and”— Edinburgh West worked on in the previous Parliament. crucially—“security of person.” What is clear from Responding to a parliamentary question tabled by my many of the dreadful examples that we have heard 91WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 92WH today is that that security is put at risk daily by the to deal with hate crimes. That will help them to achieve criminal acts of a few, which are unfortunately tolerated a much more productive and sensible way forward to by many more. nail this, rather than ever going back down the road of As a member of the JCHR, I have also taken note of saying, “You poor disabled person, you are a victim and the EHRC’s endorsement of the mechanisms of the you just need protecting.” That is not what the disability Human Rights Act 1998, which it says are essential for fight has been all about. Lord knows, I know, because I the protection of human rights in the United Kingdom. have been with it for 20 years. The EHRC also argues that the existing law is well crafted to balance Britain’s international obligations with its constitutional conventions. In particular, the 10.38 am existing Act preserves parliamentary sovereignty and Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): I am delighted to the role of British judges in interpreting the legislation, be in the Chamber under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. and has allowed many people to exercise their basic I have known you for more years than either of us cares rights without the time and expense of taking a case to to remember, so it is a pleasure to find ourselves in this the European Court of Human Rights. I hope that situation this morning. the Minister can reassure me and other members of the Joint Committee that any revision of the Human Rights I echo the remarks of others and congratulate my Act will not change that crucial lifeline for those who hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston are disabled. (Kate Green) on initiating this important debate. I In conclusion, I welcome the issue finally receiving thank other colleagues—my right hon. Friend the Member the attention it deserves. I await further concrete steps for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) and by the Government to deal with this hidden crime. the hon. Members for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd), for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) and for South Swindon Mr James Gray (in the Chair): Order. I intend to call (Mr Buckland)—for their powerful comments. I also the Front Benchers at 10.40. Therefore, I call Mr Stephen thank colleagues from Northern Ireland who participated Lloyd, assuming that he can constrain himself to that in the debate. The question was asked about this being a time. UK issue; it is definitely a UK issue. Indeed, the Equality and Human Rights Commission report makes 10.35 am recommendations for the devolved Administrations, which I hope they will be able to pursue. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Thank you, Mr Gray, for allowing me to speak. I appreciate that it is far more As others in the Chamber have said, it is to our important for the Chamber to listen to the Front Benchers, collective shame as a society that we are having to so I shall be very brief, which is a challenge, because I consider such a report 11 years into the 21st century. We feel strongly about the subject. I have been very impressed are supposed to be committed to a road map for equality by the speeches today, in particular those from my hon. for disabled people, yet we are considering a document Friends the Members for Blackpool North and Cleveleys that highlights the antagonism, harassment, assault and (Paul Maynard) and for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart). even murder inflicted on those whose only crime was I want to focus on one area only. that they were disabled and were therefore seen as a legitimate target by those who sought to harm them. What is incredibly important around disability hate crime is the use of language and how we approach it. I It is difficult to read the report without becoming do not believe that Whitehall knows best. I shall give angry about the fact that, after the passing of two the Chamber a quick example to ponder. I remember a disability discrimination Acts, an equality Act, the good friend of mine who is a wheelchair user telling me establishment of the Disability Rights Commission, a few years ago the reason he hated being patronised far which is now the Equality and Human Rights Commission, more than he hated someone being angry with or unpleasant the signing and ratification of the UN convention on to him. When he was patronised he felt shamed, and he the rights of people with disabilities, the Autism Act did not know how to respond, which is perfectly normal. 2009, the European convention on human rights and If I am patronised, even though I know the person is the Human Rights Act 1998, and the introduction of wrong, I feel shamed—that is human nature. He gave an public sector duties, our society still sees disabled people example of being ignored in a restaurant, but his partner, being abused daily and regularly becoming victims of who is not in a wheelchair, was addressed—he would violent crime. That is the picture that has been presented feel that sense of shame. He said, “The thing is, Stephen, to us in the report. even though I did not like either, the advantage of when The lessons are stark. For example, public authorities someone is unpleasant is that I feel angry, and that gives such as police and social services have often been aware me a sense of empowerment.” of harassment of individuals, but no action has been That point might be a little counter-intuitive within taken. Even when the harassment escalates, it is often such a brief discussion, but my real point is that I want the case that little effective action is taken to protect the the Government and all politicians across the piece who disabled person, which often results, as my hon. Friend feel so strongly about the issue to be intelligent about it. the Member for Stretford and Urmston said, in an We do not want to go back to what we had many years escalation of the victimisation of the disabled person. ago, when disabled people were seen only as victims, When action has been taken, it has often been unco- which was counter-productive and appalling. Disabled ordinated, with little exchange or intelligence sharing people have fought hard over the past 15 years to stop among those public authorities that were duty-bound that. I want the Government to take it on board that to be part of the support network for the disabled this is about listening to how disabled people want them person. 93WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 94WH

[Mrs Anne McGuire] One would think that going to the hairdresser was a safe activity for a disabled person. My hon. Friend the As has been alluded to, research shows that some Member for Stretford and Urmston raised this matter 60% of disabled people have been the victim of some and said that a young man did a normal thing and went sort of hostility, violence or aggression from strangers. to a hairdresser, but the hairdresser thought he would As the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys have a bit of fun at that young man’s expense. Something said, there is increasing awareness that some disabled that links back to the comments of the hon. Member people are victimised and abused by people who are for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) is the fact that known to them. To echo the comments of my right hon. although we may believe that the sentence was not Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, adequate—I believe it was 200 hours of unpaid work, it is particularly worrying that, according to Mencap, compensation and court costs—the magistrates increased nine out of 10 people with learning disabilities have it by using section 146 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, experienced such abusive behaviour, and there is evidence which allowed tougher sentences for disability hate to suggest that such behaviour is on the increase. I will crimes. Police, prosecutors and magistrates won praise come to that later. for the way they co-ordinated their action and used that As my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and provision. A little light was shed on the situation. Urmston said, the Equality and Human Rights I ask the Minister to address the Government’s Commission report says that disabled people are more responsibilities concerning the environment in which likely to be victims of crime than non-disabled people. disabled people live their lives. We have heard a great That reflects a pattern of disadvantage for disabled deal about the cultural environment in which we work, people in many spheres, including education, health and we have heard about the Scope report. We have not outcomes and access to services. More worrying—I heard about the second part of the report, but it says hope that we do not lose sight of this point—is the fact that 65% of disabled people thought that others did not that many disabled people have come to accept that that believe that they were disabled, and 73% thought that is an unwelcome but almost inevitable part of their others presumed that they did not work. daily lives. What a devastating indictment it is that we have disabled citizens who believe that abuse and Leaving aside the debate on whether the Government harassment, or worse, come with the territory and are are on the right track with their welfare reform—that is things they must put up with. for another Chamber and another time—the daily feeding I congratulate Mike Smith, lead commissioner for the to the media of press releases and distortion of figures, Equality and Human Rights Commission inquiry, who and the calling into question whether people really are was extremely challenging in his foreword to the report. disabled, has changed the landscape for disabled people. His words are worth quoting: Glasgow university’s monitoring report showed a dramatic “For me, two things come out of this inquiry that are far more increase in the number of media articles related to shocking than the 10 cases that we cover in more detail, awful as disability fraud. When its focus group was asked for a they are. The first is just how much harassment seems to be going disability story, it typically came up with benefit fraud. on. It’s not just some extreme things happening to a handful of Is it any wonder that we are seeing cases such as the one people: it’s an awful lot of unpleasant things happening to a great reported last week in South Shields, where Peter Greener, many people, almost certainly in the hundreds of thousands each a wheelchair user with a brain condition, suffered months year.” of taunts about being a benefit scrounger, stone throwing That echoes the experience of the hon. Member for and harassment by his neighbour, who thought he was Blackpool North and Cleveleys, which is that even someone exaggerating his disability? with his awareness found out that someone in his street was being abused. Mike Smith’s second point was that We have heard stories about the Secretary of State for “no one knows about it. Schools don’t know how many disabled Work and Pensions being enraged when he was told by pupils are bullied; local authorities and registered social landlords his Department that no precise figures for the number don’t know how many antisocial behaviour victims are disabled; of people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder health services don’t know how many assault victims are disabled; who receive free cars were available. The paper concerned police don’t know how many victims of crime are disabled; the had to correct the story the following week, at the courts don’t know how many disabled victims have access to prompting of not the Department, but a disability special measures” organisation. It does not help disabled people to live and so on. That is the picture that Mike Smith paints their lives when statements are made that disability today. living allowance is available just by filling in a form. The Although the cases are horrible individually, collectively Minister knows, and I know, that that is not a true they are truly horrific. Michael Gilbert was a young picture. man with an undiagnosed mental health condition whose dismembered body was found near Luton. He was I say with the greatest respect—I exempt the Minister murdered after years of torture by the Watt family. He from making such outrageous comments; she has conducted had been in contact with police on various occasions, the debate with a measured approach—that she should but was never afforded the protection he deserved. challenge some of the more outrageous and outlandish Steven Hoskin was a 38-year-old with learning disabilities comments by some of her senior colleagues, because who was found dead at the bottom of a 100-foot they are creating an atmosphere that is to the greater railway viaduct in St Austell, Cornwall. He had been disadvantage of disabled people, and that causes fear tortured for years before his death, and suffered various and uncertainty in their lives. injuries inflicted upon him by people he knew. He had We can have the debate about welfare reform, but we been tied up, dragged round by a lead, imprisoned, must ensure that the language—the hon. Member for burned with cigarettes, humiliated, and violently and Eastbourne referred to this—with which we discuss repeatedly abused in his own home. these issues is that of moderation, which recognises that 95WH Disability Hate Crime23 NOVEMBER 2011 Disability Hate Crime 96WH people have their own dignity, and that they are entitled Friend the Member for South Swindon and my hon. to be treated with dignity and not be encapsulated in Friend the Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart), some cheap media headline. raised the issue of sentencing. I will take a couple of I appreciate that the Minister has a very short time in minutes to dwell on that, because it is complex. We have which to respond. I look forward to that response and heard that we can perhaps learn something from Scotland, congratulate her and other colleagues on allowing us to for which I thank my hon. Friend the Member for have this important debate. Edinburgh West. We are committed to ensuring that everybody has the freedom to live their lives free from the fear of targeted hostility or harassment on the 10.50 am grounds of a particular characteristic, including disability. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work On section 146, undue leniency and aggravating factors— and Pensions (Maria Miller): As always, it is a pleasure issues that hon. Members have raised today—we are to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I commend absolutely open to looking at how the law is working in the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate practice, particularly around section 146 and any Green) for securing this debate. It has given us all an inconsistencies by the court. We are always looking at opportunity to focus on this issue in what has been evidence that suggests that courts consider their powers an extremely informed, lively and useful debate. insufficient to deal with such cases. I will try to respond to as many issues as possible in We will be considering carefully the recommendations the time that I have available. There is a great deal of of the Equality and Human Rights Commission and we ground to cover. My hon. Friend the Member for South will respond to them. I am pleased to note that the Swindon (Mr Buckland) put his finger on the issue Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend when he said that we need to change attitudes, as we saw the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), has already met happen for the victims of domestic violence. That brought Mencap and the National Autistic Society to discuss home to me the issue that we need to deal with here. I these matters in detail. I want to go one stage further for absolutely agree with what he said. the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston to underline In 2008, the then Director of Public Prosecutions my concern and commitment to ensure that we see said something that many hon. Members would agree action. I will undertake to meet the Under-Secretary of with: the issue of disability hate crime is a scar on the State for Justice and also Mencap and any other conscience of the criminal justice system. It is important organisations that have an interest to ensure that we are that we recognise, both within the House and outside, delivering not just warm words but action in this area. the magnitude of the problem that we face. Any form of Hon. Members have noted the important progress discrimination against disabled people is absolutely that we have made with regard to sentencing. They may unacceptable. Hate crime is a particularly disgusting be interested to know that in September I wrote to the and disgraceful abuse of disabled people, which has no Under-Secretary of State for Justice to underline the place in civilised society. Working with disabled people need for change to resolve the issues around schedule and disabled people’s organisations and raising awareness 21. I was pleased that the Secretary of State for Justice through debates such as today’s is a way of trying to was able to confirm the Government’s intention to continue to change attitudes, which was a theme in hon. publish amendments in the other place, so that murders Members’ contributions. motivated by hostility towards disabled people will have My hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen the same sentencing starting point of 30 years as those Lloyd) talked about the importance of the way in which aggravated by race, religion and sexual orientation. we handle this matter. He made the important point My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North that disabled people do not want to be treated as and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) made an extremely victims. Our starting point must be that disabled people impassioned contribution to the debate. I welcome his have to be absolutely clear that they are adequately insight. He raised the issue of mate crime. Mencap’s protected by the law. The hon. Member for Stretford work in this area has been extremely helpful. Crimes and Urmston wanted to know about practical things targeted at disabled people by friends, relatives and that the Government are doing now. She is absolutely carers are a significant challenge for the criminal justice right that warm words are not enough, so I will cut agencies and the Government. I reassure him that the straight to the quick. issue is seen as a priority. We have made a commitment in our coalition agreement I was pleased to see Mencap’s “Stand by Me” charter. to improve recording, and we are delivering on that. I It is something that individual police forces and chief do not need to rehearse with the hon. Lady the work constables are able to support, and I encourage them to that we are doing in that area. We have also supported do so. Recognising hate crime and improving its reporting the work that Radar is doing to improve reporting must be a continued priority. We have 19 organisations across the country, and I am pleased that one of our that work to support victims of hate crime. We have staff from the Office for Disability Issues has been made sure that additional funding is available for the seconded to help in that work. We are also working with work that they do. My hon. Friend the Member for the Association of Chief Police Officers to ensure that it Blackpool North and Cleveleys referred to the organisation is doing all it can. We have heard from hon. Members that I met with him in Blackpool and the excellent work today that there are more than 1,500 recorded disability that it does with the support of Stephen Brookes. I want hate crime offences. I think that that is the tip of the to reiterate his comments. iceberg and we need to continue to work hard on that. Other hon. Members, particularly the hon. Member Several hon. Members, including the right hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), raised the issue of devolution for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke), and the importance of a UK-wide approach. Perhaps the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston, my hon. he will be reassured to know that the ACPO lead on 97WH Disability Hate Crime 23 NOVEMBER 2011 98WH

[Maria Miller] Public Service Broadcasting (North-East) hate crime is a Northern Ireland police officer. Although there are devolved issues in terms of crime and justice, 11 am ACPO is ensuring that we are all working closely together. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): Hon. Members will know that the Equality and It is a pleasure and an honour to serve under your Human Rights Commission published its report in chairmanship, Mr Gray. I am pleased to have secured September. On the back of that report, I took the this debate, and I have a significant interest to declare. I opportunity to write to relevant Ministers to underline recall Mike Neville explaining to me personally, or so it my support for its work and to highlight the requirements seemed at the time, what the posh word for a Geordie of the public sector equality duty, which must be considered was: a Novocastrian. I remember learning the points of in their response. The recommendations are being the compass—north, east, west and south—from the considered at the moment and will be reflected in the “Look North” weather map, before I was old enough to cross-government action plan, which I am sure hon. own a compass of my own. Members will be pleased to know will be published Clearly, however, public service broadcasting in the early next year. It was important that we had the EHRC north-east is about more than the memories of one report to reflect on first. Member of Parliament; it is an important part of the I have demonstrated that there has been absolutely identity, culture and economy of the region. In its 2009 no pause in the work of the Government to tackle review, Ofcom set out the purpose of public service disability hate crime while the action plan is being broadcasting, which included: considered. Indeed, action across Government continues “To reflect and strengthen our cultural identity through original to be critical, which is an issue that the hon. Member for programming at UK, national and regional level.” Stretford and Urmston raised. I want to reassure her It characterised public service broadcasting: that we have important structures in place around the independent advisory group, which continues to advise “High quality—well-funded and well-produced; original—new UK content rather than repeats or acquisitions; innovative—breaking across Government. We are also about to engage in a new ideas or re-inventing exciting approaches; challenging—making major new piece of work to look at how we can change viewers think; engaging—remaining accessible; and widely available,” attitudes towards disabled people, which was at the heart of much of today’s debate. Over the next few so that a large majority of citizens have the chance to months, I look forward to working with disabled people watch it. Will the Minister clarify whether he stands by on those issues. those purposes and characteristics of public service broadcasting? If he does, will they continue to apply to The right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) public service broadcasting in the north-east after the mentioned the portrayal of disabled people in the media. current round of BBC cost cutting? She and I are as one on this. The purpose and characteristics of public service broadcasting are also enshrined in the BBC’s duties, and include: “To reflect and strengthen cultural identities.” The BBC, however, is not the only public service broadcaster; ITV, Channel 4 and Channel Five must also meet public service broadcasting requirements. My concerns about the future of public service broadcasting in the north-east therefore apply to private sector broadcasters as well as to the BBC. In addition, all broadcasters are subject to the broadcasting code, which also recognises the importance of regional and local identity. In his reply to my letter expressing the dismay of my constituents at the portrayal of Newcastle in “Geordie Shore,”Chris Woolard, group director of Ofcom, explained that cities could complain about how they were portrayed and that their individual identity should be recognised. However, despite long-standing lip service to the importance of regional identity and public service broadcasting, we have seen a steady diminution in its quality and availability in the north-east. The BBC now proposes further cuts in its “Delivering Quality First” consultation, and it is not an exaggeration to say that such cuts threaten the existence of public service broadcasting in the north-east. In the past, commercial companies such as Tyne Tees Television were often the greatest champions of local culture and regional identity, by giving a platform to local music and drama, holding local politicians to account, and providing children’s programmes, educational, artistic or comedy programmes—indeed, programmes of every genre. Local BBC stations would cover news, 99WH Public Service Broadcasting 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Public Service Broadcasting 100WH (North-East) (North-East) sport, politics and documentaries, and support locally services will not be running until after 2015. Does the produced drama, resulting in a wide and diverse range Minister think that those local TV services will be of programming. I remember watching “When the Boat complementary to regional public service broadcasting, Comes in”, “The Tube”, “The Likely Lads”, “Razamatazz”, or is he happy to weaken regional broadcasting on the “Northern Life”, “Auf Wiedersehen, Pet” and many basis that local TV will replace it? other great examples of local content, as well as listening If we accept the purposes and characteristics of public to a wide range of local radio programming. As well as sector broadcasting as set out by Ofcom and if we reflecting regional culture back on ourselves, such diversity consider the reductions in commercial regional helped build local skills, thereby supporting a regional broadcasting, the cuts to public support for local talent industry that provided high-quality jobs, and train the and the limitations of the local TV proposals, there can next generation of broadcasters. be no doubt that the existence of regional public sector Unfortunately, following consolidation in the television broadcasting depends on BBC funding. However, the and broadcasting industry, and in the face of rising BBC cuts include, among other things, a 40% cut in competition and falling revenues, regional commercial investigative programming. broadcasting has been much weakened. In 2009, Ofcom further reduced regional broadcasting requirements on Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): I congratulate commercial public service broadcasters. Some support my hon. Friend on securing the debate. In the past, I for local television used to be available through Northern might have complained that Darlington, in the south of Film and Media, funded by the Film Council and the the north-east, did not get its fair share of attention in regional development agency, but the Government have regional output. That can only become more of a now cut that support. problem if the north-east is put together with places It is not, therefore, surprising that this summer, in such as Crewe, Sheffield, Hull and Lancaster. Great as Ofcom’s latest assessment of the state of public service they are, they have nothing at all to do with what it is broadcasting, the criterion like to live in the north-east. “reflecting and strengthening our cultural identity” On investigative journalism, first-class work has been done by people in the north-east. I am thinking of scored the lowest marks ever. Only a third of viewers issues such as that involving Southern Cross. That think that public service broadcasting channels do well is particularly pertinent to me because the company is in, based in Darlington. “portraying my region well to the rest of the UK,” and in providing Mr James Gray (in the Chair): Order. Interventions “programmes about my region or nation.” should be brief.

Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): I Mrs Chapman: With your permission, Mr Gray, I will pay tribute to my hon. Friend for securing this important just finish the point. I think that some of the things that debate; she is making an excellent speech. Does she were exposed thanks to the BBC would not have been agree that at a time when the north-east is suffering exposed had we not had that superb output, content dreadfully from the economic downturn, it is particularly and journalism in the north-east. important that regional broadcasting is able to produce documentaries to show people, both in the region and Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend makes two excellent elsewhere, what is happening? Regional broadcasting points. The first is that it is important to reflect the rich can also help to build on a lot of the good that exists in diversity within a region. The north-east is diverse, but an area, and provide a good and balanced picture. it is much harder to reflect that diversity when we are Simply lumping the north-east with other northern looking at extended supra-regions that may cover half areas will not do. the country.Secondly, it is very important that investigative journalism has the scale and presence locally to be able Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend makes an excellent to identify issues of great significance to local people’s point. One great strength of regional broadcasting is lives, such as Southern Cross, and to be able to invest that local broadcasters understand what is happening in the right local resources in tracking down the causes of a region such as the north-east, and can go further the issues and ensuring that people are made aware in identifying issues that are relevant to local people. of them. Therefore, the cuts to investigative journalism That is especially true in the north-east at this difficult in the north-east are particularly worrying. “Inside time. Media outside the north-east have a tendency to Out” is the last remaining dedicated in-depth regional portray the area in negative terms—perhaps rightly programme on British TV, and the North East and given the disproportionate cuts that the area is Cumbria edition has won Royal Television Society awards experiencing—but that does not reflect the strengths for the last six years running. However, it faces cuts that and the entrepreneurial spirit that is a feature of north- will see it lose 40% of its staff. eastern culture. The BBC also proposes 20% staff cuts to local radio Against that background, the BBC has proposed the stations. That is about 10 jobs each in Newcastle and implementation of further drastic cuts to regional provision. Tees. It means that programming will be shared across The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport the entire north-east in the afternoons and across the has said that he is keen to support local television, but whole of England in the evenings. his proposals are—to be kind—not yet viable and not without controversy.There are major gaps in coverage—the Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Before city of Durham, for example, will have no local television the hon. Lady leaves the investigative journalism issue, I coverage—and even in the best possible scenario, local want to reinforce the point that she is making. Very few 101WH Public Service Broadcasting 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Public Service Broadcasting 102WH (North-East) (North-East) [Sir Alan Beith] that reflects and strengthens our regional cultural identity. That requires a minimum level of provision, and the other organisations have the investigative journalist staff proposed BBC cuts take us well below that. I hope that who can maintain the contacts and have sufficient local the Minister can promise the survival of good-quality knowledge to do the kind of work that the BBC’s public service broadcasting in the north-east. “Inside Out” team has been doing. 11.17 am Chi Onwurah: The right hon. Gentleman makes the excellent point that the investigative journalism supported The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, by the BBC is essential to our ongoing understanding of Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a what is happening in our region so that we can get to the pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, bottom of many of the issues that will not be raised by for what I think is the first time. I congratulate the hon. national media. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) I emphasise that cuts to local radio will have a on securing this important debate on public service disproportionate effect on older people. Many of them broadcasting in the north-east. I think that I have said look to local radio for a sense of connection with their this before, but I will say it again: she is a doughty community. Ofcom has shown that older people are champion for her constituents and for her region. She more likely to listen to the radio at least five days a certainly does not need to convince me that Newcastle week, with almost nine in 10 of those aged over 55 and the rest of the north-east are great places to live and doing so. More than a third of Radio Newcastle’s work. I spent my summer holiday last year in Newcastle. listeners are over 65. This year, I did not have a summer holiday, but last year, when I did, it was in Newcastle. I also spent new The BBC also envisages a two-thirds cut in local year in Newcastle. I am a regular visitor to the Sage in weather presenters. Given the almost sacred position Gateshead. The transformation of Newcastle and that the weather holds in the national as well as the Gateshead in using culture to create almost from scratch regional psyche, the end of local weather reporting for a vibrant £1 billion a year tourism and inward investment much of the day seems deliberately designed to undermine industry is a great beacon to the rest of the UK. It is no local identity. It is ironic that the cuts are taking place as surprise that on 5 December the Turner prize ceremony—I the BBC is moving many areas of coverage to BBC think that it will be televised—will be held at the BALTIC North in Manchester. We welcome the BBC’s attempts centre for contemporary art in Gateshead. Obviously, I to extend its presence from the capital, but I hope that do not have the extensive knowledge of the area that the the Minister does not need me to point out to him that hon. Lady and her hon. Friends have, but she certainly for my constituents, Manchester is a long way south. does not need to convince me of its merits. Apparently, when Caroline Thomson, the BBC’s chief operating officer, visited Newcastle recently, she was We watched the same programmes when we were surprised to learn that it takes longer to get from growing up. I fondly remember watching with my late Newcastle to Salford than it does to get from Newcastle father “When The Boat Comes In”, with James Bolam. to London; I am sure that the Minister is more familiar It was the Vaizey family’s favourite programme. I am with the public rail network. I hope that he would agree delighted to see that James Bolam’s career has gone that MediaCity, welcome though it is, should not be an from strength to strength. I now watch him regularly in excuse for reducing provision in the north-east. Equally, “Grandpa In My Pocket” with my five-year-old and although I appreciate that “Tracy Beaker”and “Inspector three-year-old. Of course, “The Tube” also did so much George Gently” are made in the north-east, that is not to forge our cultural identity. an excuse for withdrawing quality investigative journalism. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central invites me to endorse the purposes of public service At the meeting of the all-party group on the BBC on broadcasting, as set out by Ofcom. Given the tone in 3 November, Mark Thompson admitted that the proposed which she did so, I could not help but feel that she was cuts take regional coverage to a bare minimum. Is that somehow setting a trap for me, but I can see no reason what the Minister wishes for public service broadcasting not to endorse the purposes of public service broadcasting. in the north-east? As it is, BBC audience appreciation Perhaps she invites me to— levels fall the further we go from London and the south-east. Chi Onwurah rose— I therefore hope that the Minister will tell me whether he supports the objectives and characteristics of public Mr Vaizey: I thought the hon. Lady might intervene service broadcasting as set out by Ofcom. Will he at this point. In that case, dot, dot, dot. confirm that local TV proposals are not a justification for diminishing regional TV? Will he confirm that the Chi Onwurah: I simply want to assure the Minister people of the north-east should be able to expect quality that no trap was intended when I invited him to endorse and representation in regional broadcasting? Will he the important principles behind the purposes and agree to do all he can to ensure that the BBC does not characteristics of public service broadcasting. They are further undermine public service broadcasting in the incredibly important at a time when the BBC’s actions north-east? The Minister may argue that that is the would seem to undermine them. responsibility of the BBC and Ofcom. But it is he who is accountable to the people of the north-east for culture Mr Vaizey: As the hon. Lady rightly pointed out in and media in the north-east. her speech, it is not just the BBC that is a public service Public service broadcasting in the north-east must be broadcaster, but ITV, Channel 4 and Channel Five. If high quality, well funded, well produced, original, innovative, she will allow me to go slightly off-piste, it is important challenging, engaging and widely available programming to say that the Government have a communications 103WH Public Service Broadcasting 23 NOVEMBER 2011 Public Service Broadcasting 104WH (North-East) (North-East) review under way, and we hope to publish a Green savings in that programme strand, because this is a Paper early next year. In it, we will discuss the future of regional programme that goes out across the country in public service broadcasting, but it is certainly our intention, different regional variations. That means that there will in principle, to maintain the public service broadcasting be a smaller team, and more items in specific programmes principles. It is interesting—I say no more that, and I might be shared. hope Members will not read anything more into my On local radio, my understanding is that Newcastle words—to have a debate about the future of public and Tees will have to share a programme on weekday service broadcasting in a digital age, when we have afternoons. The hon. Lady also mentioned the weather multiple digital channels and the internet. Our initial report, and I agree that it is an important part of public thinking is certainly that public service broadcasting service broadcasting. There will still be a specific evening remains an extraordinarily important cornerstone of weather report, but it is true that the BBC is planning to UK content throughout the country, and we intend to pre-record the weather report for the early-morning and reinforce the purposes of public service broadcasting in lunchtime broadcasts on local radio and regional television. the Green Paper. Most of the hon. Lady’s remarks focused on the BBC The BBC has had to make some tough decisions, but and the cuts it is making as a result of the licence fee it has done so in a way that shows that it wants to settlement. Obviously, I will put the positive case for provide the best possible service for every region in the what the BBC is doing. In the recent debate on local country. I think the BBC takes its regional responsibilities radio, which was well attended, with more than 50 colleagues very seriously, and I certainly know from my conversations present, I was intrigued to find myself being assailed by with the director-general over the years that he absolutely Labour Members for being a defender of the BBC, feels in his bones the need for the BBC to be a service which is perhaps an unusual position for a Conservative for every licence payer, wherever they live in the United Minister to be in. However, I will bow to no one in my Kingdom, and he would be wary of any proposals that defence of the BBC; it is the cornerstone of public undermined that. service broadcasting in this country, and we are lucky to The hon. Lady mentioned the Government’s proposals have it. It does a superb job. In fact, its commercial for local television, and she raises a good point. She rivals—I am talking about not only Sky, but ITV, mentioned concerns that local television might not be Channel 4, Channel Five and, indeed, some of the up and running until after 2015. We hope to have the newspapers—express concerns to the effect that the first 20 stations launched in 2012, but if I am wrong BBC does its job almost too well, making it harder for about that, I will write to her to correct myself. I also them to make a living. understand—again, if I am wrong, I will write to her to The BBC therefore does a fantastic job, but everyone correct myself—that Newcastle and Middlesbrough are is having to make savings, and when families up and among the locations that were consulted over the summer down the country are trying to manage their budgets, about the local TV framework and potential locations. this is not the right time substantially to increase the An announcement will be made just before Christmas BBC licence fee. What the BBC does have, which no on where Ofcom intends to advertise local television other media company in this country really has—indeed, licences. very few media companies around the world have this—is Local television is potentially a revolution in public certainty over its funding until March 2017. That is an service broadcasting. It is there to complement the important asset for the BBC, and it means that it can existing public service broadcasting framework, not to plan ahead. Let us not forget that the BBC also receives replace it. It is there to fill the gap that the Secretary of additional income because of the success of BBC State felt very keenly, and which he worked on in Worldwide. opposition. Funnily enough, too many regional The BBC is therefore well funded, but it is having to programmes, which many hon. Members have rightly make savings. As we know from the debate about local defended in recent months, are still not local enough, radio, which focused on the proposals in “Delivering and the Government think audiences would welcome Quality First”, the BBC is looking to make savings of ultra-local television. about 10% in local radio, if we take into account the On the other investment going into the north-east, cuts and the fact that the BBC wants to put more the BBC has an impact fund, which is designed specifically money back into programming. In that debate, I defended to fund programmes in the regions, and it has funded the BBC’s approach in “Delivering Quality First”, because 13 programmes in the north-east over the past two years. I felt—and I still feel—that it has taken a strategic approach, and some of the changes that it proposes for The hon. Lady mentioned changes in the regional local radio are based more on quality than cost cutting. development agencies and in Northern Film and Media. I must tell the hon. Lady and her colleagues, however, I am delighted that Creative England has now been that that debate had a significant impact. I am not privy launched under the exemplary leadership of Caroline to the BBC’s thinking or to any changes that it might be Norbury, and it has now received £5 million from the thinking of making, but I assure them that I think the regional growth fund. It will maintain a presence in all BBC has listened to the concerns that were raised. I do the regions, and it will work with Northern Film and not know what changes, if any, it plans to make, but it is Media to ensure that investment opportunities exist for certainly legitimate for hon. Members to raise such local independent production companies, video games concerns, and I am pleased that the hon. Lady attended companies and all the other high-tech companies that the meeting with Mark Thompson and Lord Patten, are so successful in the north-east. when they came to the House to discuss these issues. One issue we have not covered, and which I often On the specific changes in the north-east, my mention—this was an achievement of the previous understanding is that there are no plans to stop providing Government, and I am happy to credit them with it—is an “Inside Out” edition for the north-east. There will be the explosion in community radio, which was brought 105WH Public Service Broadcasting 23 NOVEMBER 2011 106WH (North-East) [Mr Vaizey] Credit Unions about by the Communications Act 2003. There are now more than 200 local community radio stations across [MR GARY STREETER in the Chair] the country, and I am sure many are also thriving in the north-east. 2.30 pm We still have regional quotas for all the public service broadcasters. When I talk to independent production Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): It is a pleasure companies in the north-east, they are keen to impress to see you in the Chair for this important debate, on me the importance of those quotas in ensuring that Mr Streeter. I know that we are competing against an programmes are commissioned around the country. Opposition day debate in the main Chamber and the The hon. Member for Darlington (Mrs Chapman) is appearance of Mr Patrick Vieira, so it is particularly now yawning, and the clock is flashing, showing that good to see many hon. Members present. The subject the debate is about to end. Those are strong signals matters to Members from all parties in the House. It is that I have made the points I need to make and that it is good to see at least four parties represented here already, time for me to sit down and conclude the debate. with possibly a fifth quite soon. I should declare an interest at the outset in that, like 11.29 am many hon. Members present, I am a member of a local Sitting suspended. credit union—in my case, United Savings and Loans, in Hampshire. I also chair the all-party group on credit unions, whose secretariat is provided by the Association of British Credit Unions Ltd. The debate is timely, and that timeliness is to do with the making earlier this month of a legislative reform order that will come into effect in January. It is a key milestone enabler for the credit union sector that will boost the ability of credit unions to improve financial inclusion right across the piece. There are other timely aspects, such as the Government’s recent announcement on the modernisation fund and the exciting possibility of linking up credit unions with the post office network. More broadly, the debate is timely also because of the focus that we have these days on debt at all levels—national, corporate and individual—and because of the desire to re-encourage a culture of savings at a time when 4 million households in the country have no savings at all. Several related debates are taking place within Parliament, such as on capping the cost of credit, debt management companies and credit brokerage. While those are not debates for today, I would not be surprised if hon. Members brought up aspects of them. Credit unions have a huge growth opportunity in this country. The sector has already seen substantial and rapid growth over the past decade—between 200% and 300%, depending on which measure we choose. The growth fund, which was introduced under the previous Government, was a big part of that growth. There had already been substantial momentum for growth, but the growth fund also enabled credit unions to reach out to a new category of clients and members. Credit unions in Britain now have more than 800,000 adult members and more than 100,000 junior savers. However, on an international level, membership penetration of the population by credit unions in this country remains small—a low, single-digit percentage, compared with almost a third in the United States and Australia, and almost half in Ireland. Before I am corrected, I should say that when I talk about credit unions in Britain being small, I am referring to Britain, not the United Kingdom, because in Northern Ireland, as in the Republic of Ireland, credit union penetration is massively higher than it is in England, Scotland and Wales. Globally, there are some 53,000 credit unions, with 188 million members across 100 countries. This model is not some newfangled idea or experiment; it has a great international, long-term record. 107WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 108WH

We are here to talk specifically about credit unions Across personal credit, particularly to the most and financial inclusion. It is important to note that disadvantaged, although we could argue that this extends when we talk about financial inclusion or exclusion, the far beyond them, much of the emphasis is not on what subject is not quite as binary as those terms suggest. It they can afford to repay, but on what they want. Combining is not that someone is either included or excluded, but that with extensions and roll-overs, too many of the that there is a scale in between. No one has no access to poorest and most disadvantaged people in society find any financial service whatever. The scale runs from one themselves in a seemingly never-ending trap of debt, end—people trading derivatives on personal accounts—to from which it is difficult to break out. the other, which is people borrowing money from the How do credit unions address financial inclusion? sort of lender whose idea of a late-payment penalty is a On transactional bank accounts, credit unions offer cigarette burn to the forearm. The question is not current accounts, and I have such a card with me. There whether someone is absolutely included or excluded, are 33,000 active accounts through 25 different credit but what sort of financial services they can access and unions. Credit unions also offer affordable credit. Interest at what cost. on loans from credit unions is capped at 26.8% APR, A great deal of progress has been made on the entry which is a small fraction of what someone might pay to level of financial inclusion, which is having a transactional high-cost and sub-prime lenders. Importantly, credit bank account. In 2002-03, 10% of households did not unions must have a balance between savings and loans, have a bank account, and the latest figures suggest 4%. so they encourage savings. They are personal, community That, however, is still one household in 25, or 1.5 million focused and responsible, and perhaps most importantly, adults in 1 million homes. Disproportionately, such they have an ethos about helping people. They are run households are single households, households with single by and for their members and are truly co-operative, parents and pensioner households, and they tend to be without a profit motive. at the bottom of the income scale. One of the most important development and growth Not having a bank account matters on a practical areas for the credit union sector recently has been level. Figures suggest that people could save between forging partnerships to reach out to people at risk of £125 and £215 just on utilities in the first year, because financial exclusion. That can be groups of people who they could use direct debit. Interestingly and importantly, would identifiably be at risk of exclusion and a broader such savings can be wiped out by bank charges, particularly group who would, at certain times, be at risk of exclusion. behavioural charges for people who are more used to To help such groups, many credit unions work actively dealing on a cash-only basis. with local community organisations, ethnic associations Broader than the question whether someone has a and so on. Some excellent work is being done in prisons bank account is how much they pay. Risk will always be to help offenders to prepare for release, rehabilitation priced into credit. Different people will always pay and work. Leeds City credit union, for example, is different prices. However, it remains the case that some undertaking a number of such projects. Care leavers are people pay massively more than others. In credit and an important segment. There is a new financial savings other sectors, there is still a significant problem in that product for children in care, and I hope that credit the poorest pay the most. unions will take the opportunity to work actively in that area. The Centre for Responsible Credit recently produced a good analysis and report, showing how much more There is also a broader group of people who, at the poorest pay for their credit than we—people with different times in their life, will face the trigger points access to mainstream credit—do. It found that for every at which the risk of financial exclusion becomes that £100 borrowed for infrequent purchases, such as white much greater. For example, those trigger points can goods, the cost of credit for people with access only to come when a person is setting up their first home or high-cost credit was on average 2.5 times as much as for moving into a flat for the first time. The temptation of people who accessed mainstream financial services. For going down the high street and seeing the furniture and annually recurring items, such as Christmas presents the flat screen telly in the window of the BrightHouse and back-to-school purchases, that figure rose to 10 times: store is a real danger point, because if someone gets the cost was £7.80 per £100 borrowed on a Barclaycard, into the trap then, it may take them years and years, or and £71.90 if someone borrowed from home credit perhaps longer, to get out of it. providers. There are also those who, perhaps through a change We are not talking about small numbers of people, in circumstance—a change in job or the breakdown of even though sub-prime and high-cost credit is not an a relationship—suddenly find themselves in rent arrears, issue that many opinion formers and journalists are and the problem can build up and snowball. Organisations particularly aware of because they do not see some of such as the London Mutual credit union do a lot of the issues. The leader in the home credit market has great work with housing associations on exactly that 11,000 agents calling weekly on one home in 20 in the area. By coincidence, right now, in the room next to this UK to collect repayments. Payday loan companies have Chamber, the all-party parliamentary group on credit between 1 million and 2 million customers per annum, unions is holding a fair that showcases some of those and the segment is growing quickly. The leader in the partnerships, including London Mutual’s work with the rent-to-own market has 245 stores nationwide, with an Family Mosaic housing association. ambition to more than double that. With rent-to-own Other types of partnership that credit unions engage in particular, the question is not only the advertised in do something slightly different. Rather than just annual percentage interest rate, which is high enough, targeting people at risk of exclusion, they seek to grow but the hidden costs that go with that, especially on the to build up their self-sustainability and reach out to mark-up of goods and the additional cost of service more people. An important way in which that can be cover. done is with housing associations. Such a partnership is 109WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 110WH

[Damian Hinds] to praise Blackbird Leys credit union and Oxford credit union in my own area. Does he not agree that there is a great way to reach people—it is absolutely in the scope to do more through the Post Office to reach out interests of the housing association that new tenants do more widely to communities across the country? not fall into rent arrears. They need tenants to become better at managing their finances and, ideally, to build Damian Hinds: I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. up savings. Credit unions including my own, United That is the single most exciting potential opportunity Savings and Loans, do very good work in that area. for the sector, and I will come to it shortly. Payroll deduction schemes are another interesting The key piece of deregulation, and what makes this and exciting development. They drive savings accounts, debate particularly timely, is the passing of what in the either through employer-based credit unions—credit credit union movement is known as the LRO. Politicos, unions can be community, employer or association however, prefer the longer title of Legislative Reform based—or in partnerships. For example, we could see a (Industrial and Providence Societies and Credit Unions) community-based credit union partnering with local Order 2011, which is an awfully long phrase to get one’s companies. head around. It is very important to the sector and has Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): I congratulate been an awful long time in the making. When speaking my hon. Friend hugely on securing today’s debate and to credit union groups, we always get a groan when we on his leadership of the all-party parliamentary group say, “Soon, the LRO will be with us.” I am pleased to on credit unions. He mentioned the importance of the say that the order has now been passed and will be with legislative reform order that is due to come in, and also us in the new year. alluded to the important role that housing associations There are three critical elements to the LRO. First, can play in the spread of credit union membership, there is the liberalisation of the common bond requirements. which we both agree is incredibly important. Does he Traditionally, there has to be something in common not agree that there is a real opportunity for the National between the members of a credit union. Although that Housing Federation and the Local Government Association has some advantages, it is also restrictive of growth. In to go out there and encourage all their members to join future, credit unions will be able to open up membership their local credit union so that almost immediately the to residents of a local housing association, which may number of people across the country with access to have tenants outside the common bond area, or to loans and a place to deposit their money would increase employers who may have different branches and operations sharply overnight? elsewhere. It will also help to facilitate the growth of the Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend makes an important strongest credit unions, thus helping to serve more point. There is a great opportunity to expand the work people. between credit unions and housing associations. I hope The second key element is the capacity to pay interest that the number of those partnerships will increase on savings rather than the traditional dividend. The greatly. divvy, as it is known, has many advantages. However, it Some credit unions have been involved in payroll is rather difficult to explain, especially if someone is deduction savings accounts for many years. I had the trying to persuade people to put their savings into a privilege of visiting the Voyager Alliance credit union in particular product. They may say, “Well, it depends Manchester. Based at the Stagecoach bus depot in Moss how much money is left at the end of the year and then Side, the credit union runs a slick operation. When bus we will divide it all up and you will get whatever you drivers and transport workers join the organisation, get.” When a credit union is trying to compete in the they frequently open a savings account from day one. market against individual savings accounts, it needs to Very small amounts go into the account from their be able to demonstrate a competitive rate. In future, it wages. It is a bit like pay-as-you-earn in that they almost will be possible for credit unions to do that. do not notice the deduction—well, they do notice it, but The third important change is in the type of members. hon. Members know what I mean. Before they know it, It will be possible for credit unions to engage with not a small nest egg has been built up, which is important only individuals but organisations for a portion of their for their financial stability. business. I do not think that we will see many large plcs The Police credit union does great work with a number suddenly starting to bank with their credit union, but it of different forces. The Glasgow credit union, which will work for local community groups, not-for-profit is one of the most successful in the country, has groups, small traders and so on that keep relatively 71 partnerships with different organisations to facilitate small, but not totally insubstantial, positive balances in building up exactly this kind of savings account. The their account. book on the power of nudge is required reading for all On a wider basis, we could say that credit unions have political anoraks these days, and we have talked about the potential to be the banker to the big society.Importantly, that mostly in the context of auto-enrolment pensions, these changes are enabling; they are not compulsory. but there is great potential for savings products as well. Three-quarters of credit unions intend to extend their Those are some of the things that credit unions membership base as a result of the changes. themselves are doing, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) mentioned, deregulation What are the critical success factors for credit unions of the sector and Government support are about to to be able to promote financial inclusion? We have to unleash a set of new and exciting opportunities. look at that on two levels: individual credit union and system-wide. For an individual credit union, scale is Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): I too congratulate needed. It then needs a proportionate cost base so that the hon. Gentleman on this debate and on his wider it can run a surplus. It needs a good mix of savers and work in this area. My intervention gives me the opportunity borrowers and income groups. To be successful, credit 111WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 112WH unions cannot just be for the most disadvantaged; they right across the country who may not have an immediate need a good mix. MPs and our local media can play an association with a credit union to put part of their important part by encouraging more people to put a investment portfolio through something like a social proportion of their savings—it does not have to be ISA, to hook them up with opportunities with credit all—into credit unions in the knowledge that they are unions and perhaps also with community development totally safe and that they will be doing some good in the finance institutions or other social enterprises, social local community. impact projects and so on. On the system-wide level, scale is again at the top of We want growth in the sector and we want more the list of success factors. Alongside that are awareness, financial inclusion, but we have to note and accept that visibility and accessibility. Credit unions suffer on that particular costs are associated with inclusive growth. I count at the moment. Not as many people are aware of am not a banker—thankfully—but to oversimplify things credit unions as they are of the sort of organisations hugely I suggest that there are three key cost drivers to that can afford to advertise constantly on daytime television. extending credit: the first is the riskiness of the customer Credit unions need attractive, competitive products and base; the second is the term, or length, of the loan; and substantial, robust back-office processes and interfaces. the third is the cost of collecting repayments. On those criteria, operating in the sub-prime segment of the Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): My hon. market and reaching out to riskier types of customer, Friend is drawing our attention to a number of issues; particularly with small loans and shorter-term loans, one of which I am aware is that the Isle of Wight credit carries an additional cost. union died earlier this year and was helped to amalgamate with the Hampshire credit union. We were greatly helped Credit unions are known as an affordable option; by the Financial Services Authority, and of course the that is what makes them so attractive. Their 26.8% APR local people were helped too, but it is important that limit is absolutely key, but the thing that we perhaps do people should feel some local connection. We do not not speak about often enough is that the limit has limits need huge credit unions that go all over the country. and it restricts what credit unions can do. With the growth fund, credit unions were able to reach out to a Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend makes a fine point. more excluded segment of the market. For the people There will be variety. One of the things that sets credit that process helped, the savings have been quite substantial; unions apart is having something about them other there have been total savings in interest of more than than just being a financial institution, and that aspect £100 million and there has been a big drop-off in that will absolutely continue. However, these deregulatory group in the use of high-cost credit. However, for the changes will also enable stronger credit unions to grow credit unions themselves it is a costlier segment of the and reach out to more people. market, which is part of the reason why we have seen an The other thing that can facilitate great change, erosion of the growth fund over time. Of course, with improvement and growth in the sector is the modernisation the growth of payday loans in particular it is especially fund of up to £73 million, which the Government are difficult—actually, it is mathematically impossible—for making available to help credit unions that can expand credit unions to compete with organisations that are to reach self-sustainability in four to five years. I know able to charge an APR in the thousands per cent, when that Ministers are considering a feasibility study on this credit unions themselves are capped at an APR of issue, and whether and how best to use that money. something less than 30%. There are some ways that Government capital can make Some of the increased costs may be mitigated by a big difference. First, it can help the sector to develop a technology. Of course, part of the point of the social common banking platform and business processing. fund is that if there is direct benefit deduction it greatly The sector has already demonstrated its potential for reduces the cost of collection and the cost of default. doing that with the credit union card account and the Jam Jar budget accounts are another development that credit union prepaid card. would help in that respect, as would different channel Secondly, as has been alluded to already, there is the developments. Those developments may mitigate the possibility of linking credit unions with the Post Office, increased costs, but they are not the whole answer. marrying a huge, trusted, visible and, for most people, The sector is not calling for a lifting of the 26.8% accessible network with financial services from credit APR limit, but I am sure that some right hon. and hon. unions, which currently suffer from not having that Members have heard from individual credit unions, as I presence. Thirdly, there is the development of the brilliantly have, that they would like a liberalisation of the limit. named Jam Jar budget account, which is all about There are big perception issues around that question helping people to mimic the way that our mums and but we must keep the debate active, because even if the dads’ generation organised their finances. They had a limit on credit unions was somewhat higher than it is jar for the rent, a jar for this outgoing, a jar for that today there would still be a huge gap between the APR outgoing and then they knew what they had left. It is a of credit unions and the 272% that someone might pay lot harder to know that these days. I mentioned some of a home credit provider, or the thousands of per cent to the bank charges that people can incur, particularly in a payday lender. the first year they have a transactional bank account In recent months, a wider debate about APR caps and move away from operating on a cash-only basis. Of and restrictions overall has had quite a lot of currency course, that is of particular interest at the moment, not in this place, although as I said earlier, that is not a least because of the Government’s ambitious welfare debate for today. Suffice to say, however, that everything reform programme. I know about economics tells me that a blunt general There is another idea that I want to throw into the cap on APR would be a terrible idea for multiple debate. It is not something that the sector is calling for, reasons, with all sorts of unintended consequences. I but I want to see new and innovative ways for people know that the Government are actively engaging in 113WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 114WH

[Damian Hinds] Inevitably, however, I also have some asks. First, I ask the Government to please provide a proportionate debate and analysis of the issue, so perhaps it is possible regulatory framework for credit unions in the post-FSA to have a different sort of regime—a different structure world. Credit unions should not be penalised for a crisis to the restrictions—which would get rid of the worst in which they played no part, and for which they share excesses of the market without denying people access to none of the blame. Secondly, it would be good to get credit altogether. Personally, I have been kicking around further details of the modernisation fund, and to get the idea of a double-restriction scheme, whereby there the key projects under way as soon as possible. Thirdly, is a limit on the initial set-up fee and then a separate we ask the Government to understand the pressures, limit, or set of limits, on the interest rate charge, which challenges and costs associated with reaching the hard- would enable payday loans, home credit and all sorts of to-reach and, finally, to continue to work as partners things to continue while getting rid of the worst excesses with all levels of government to address financial inclusion, of the market. In that different way of thinking, it rip-off loans and the erosion of the savings culture, to might also be possible to create a different sort of help responsive and responsible financial services, and regime for credit unions, although I stress again that it to further the cause of social justice that brought us all is not something that the sector is calling for. into politics. To conclude, credit unions can deliver in Britain on a much bigger scale than they do today; we have only to 3.1 pm look to Northern Ireland for a model of what things could look like. Credit unions can also deliver greatly Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): The speech by the enhanced financial inclusion. Let us not forget the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) was human angle: more stable lives, less pressure on relationships illuminating and informative, and his passion for credit and families and, essentially, happier people. Credit unions came through. As treasurer of the all-party unions can also target and reach at-risk groups, such as group on credit unions, I pay tribute to him for his work those leaving care or ex-offenders. in raising awareness across all parties in the House of the good work that credit unions do. I declare an Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I interest as a Co-op MP, and also as a member of Islwyn declare an interest as a fully paid-up member of the Community Credit Union, which, I am pleased to report, Society Credit Union in Londonderry. I congratulate has this year lent £1 million to its members in Islwyn. the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) That just goes to prove that, once again, for many on securing this debate. In his very illuminating introduction, people it is credit unions that are coming to the rescue he mentioned a couple of times the differing aspects of for their financial needs. credit unions. That applies particularly to Northern There has been an explosion in credit unions in the Ireland, where credit unions are flourishing and have past 10 years. In 2000, they accounted for £183 million done so for many decades. He has already alluded to of savings and that figure is now £475 million, and they flexibility, but does he agree that any changes we lent £175 million in 2000 compared with £429 million contemplate need to be sufficiently flexible to allow for now. That goes to prove the vital role the credit unions growth in communities where credit unions have been play in financial inclusion. To me, coming from the stunted and have not really taken root, while allowing south Wales valleys—I will not use any of the colloquialisms credit unions in areas where they show significant growth or anecdotes I usually do—financial inclusion is the to expand even beyond the reach that they have managed No. 1 issue. over many decades? I was pleased that the hon. Member for East Hampshire Damian Hinds: I certainly take, accept and agree with mentioned that credit unions often cannot compete the hon. Gentleman’s general point. There are very with companies that offer massive amounts of interest specific issues about the regulatory regime in Northern because they do not have a budget for television advertising Ireland, but I am not an expert so I will not attempt to during “The Jeremy Kyle Show”, “This Morning” or talk about things that I do not know enough about. “Loose Women”, for example. The other problem, which However, I have a feeling that we may hear more about exists in the south Wales valleys as well, is a cultural the Northern Ireland situation later in the debate. one. People borrowing from doorstep lenders are used More generally with affordable credit, if people are to the woman coming around at 6 o’clock on a Monday not overpaying for their loans it means that wages go night and collecting. further, and of course that has a beneficial marginal With financial inclusion, we are looking at three effect on employment and growth. Benefits go further issues. First, we must do something about the culture of too, and when taxpayers are paying out sums in benefit door-to-door money lending. It is not just the illegal they want to know that it is going to support families loan shark that we are all concerned about, but Provident, and children, rather than being swallowed up in sky-high Shopacheck and obscure companies that we have never interest rates. Credit unions can also help to deliver a heard of. This might be outside the remit of the Department renewed savings culture. for Work and Pensions, but we need to start with I thank the Government for their support of the financial literacy and do more to encourage credit unions sector, their recognition of the role that credit unions in schools. When I was a kid, we had national savings, can play in increasing and improving financial inclusion, and we would save £1 a week. We learnt about the value and for their general interest in mutuals, especially in of money and of saving, and we took the cash out at the wake of the banking crisis. I also thank them for Christmas to spend on what we wanted. I pay tribute to seeing the legislative reform order through, for their Islwyn Community Credit Union, which has a scheme boldness and ambition with the modernisation fund of in Trinant primary school with more than 45 members. up to £73 million, and their willingness to look at The scheme is a good advertisement, because the children radical options, such as the Post Office link-up. are joining and then the parents are coming along and 115WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 116WH joining as well—there is a collection point there. The unions to such people as a way of saving and borrowing, question we must ask is: how do we promote credit and promoting the idea that they are not just for people unions? When we talk about credit unions, people even on benefits. in this place do not seem to know what they do, so we I have another moan—I am sorry if I am moaning a have to do more about advertising. bit too much. This is an idea not for the DWP to Secondly, and again outside the DWP’s remit, there is respond to today but I hope that it will be taken back to the issue of banking. I am a former Lloyds TSB banker, the Ministry of Justice. When I worked in the bank, I and when the fine Government initiative of the basic had excellent customers who were paying their mortgage bank account was introduced, people working in the and loans, and I got a lot of business out of them. banking industry were not interested in it, because it Then, all of a sudden, a county court judgment would never credit scored for products such as credit cards, appear on their file, and that would destroy the possibility loans, or even, to some extent, savings accounts. A lot of their having any facilities whatsoever. When I asked of work has been done with that account, but I am still them what the CCJ was, very often they did not know concerned that many people in my surgeries tell me because they thought that they had not defaulted or about going to loan sharks and companies that offer anything. On investigation, they found out that they exorbitant amounts. I ask them, “Why are you borrowing were in dispute with Vodafone or Orange or over gym so much money off them when they are clearly ripping membership, for example, and that a CCJ had been put you off?” The problem is that they cannot access finance, on them, but they knew nothing about it. It seems mad even simple things such as overdrafts, which anyone that somebody’s credit record should be completely might need. They are therefore driven into the hands of destroyed simply because of a dispute with a mobile these lenders. I recently said to the British Bankers phone company. Association: “The way I view it is that there is a massive business opportunity there for you,” and they replied, The Minister of State, Department for Work and “The set-up costs would be so high it wouldn’t be worth Pensions (Chris Grayling): I am interested in what the our while offering £500 or whatever.” So we need to talk hon. Gentleman has to say, and he is making an important about the role that banks can play. Would there be a point, but could I clarify something? I am a bit puzzled facility for banks to finance credit unions and to expand as to how someone in that position could reach the that in some way? point of getting a CCJ against them without having received any notification. If that is happening, it is The third issue is that we often talk about financial clearly a big concern. inclusion as being an individual option, as something that seems to happen to an individual or a family, but Chris Evans: What I have found is that a lot of people there are a number of small businesses that cannot have got into arguments with a mobile phone company, access any form of lending. They might be social enterprises for example, because they want to end their contract. and there might be no money in there. I would like to They say that they have paid 12 months, but the company hear more from the Minister about the plans for community says that they have paid only 11 months and that they development finance initiatives, which lend to small need to make one more payment—it might be for a silly businesses and social enterprises. How can we expand amount of, say, £30. The two sides have been arguing, that and make businesses aware of the facility? I did not but they have reached gridlock, and no money has been know what they were until I did some research, so how paid, so the phone company has threatened to take the can a business know about them? We can look at person to court. Gym membership is another issue I increasing that awareness. have come across. People want to end their membership early, but they then get into a dispute with the gym. In The hon. Member for East Hampshire said that we many respects, it seems lop-sided that the company has have an option here. We can support credit unions and sought a CCJ. make people aware of them. A great thing about living in Wales—I am from there, as is the hon. Member for If a consumer is in dispute with a company over a Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams), who is no payment, there should be some way of ensuring that the longer in his place, and it is a great place—is that company cannot put a CCJ on them until the issue is everyone has access to a credit union. We can look at resolved; I am talking about tidying up that part of the the examples there and roll the idea out across the law. This is very important, but it is not talked about country. It does not really cost anything. If we do not often, so it might be something to look at. These people do something now, particularly in these hard financial can be good bank customers, but what can the bank do? times when even people with regular jobs find themselves It can go only on their credit record. I am not knocking squeezed out, the only option will be to go to the the banks for that. I am asking why companies that high-lending companies. I agree in many respects with should have no effect on people’s credit rating are able not fixing credit APR, because if we fix it all the other to write people off in that way. costs will be pushed down on to the consumer. There is I have spoken for longer than I expected, but I believe an argument for capping the costs of lending, and we passionately in credit unions and in expanding them as can look at things such as not having early repayment much as possible. I believe in relaxing the common penalties and making loans more simplistic. bond, but I also think it is possible to have a central finance facility—these facilities are used all over the Another problem that credit unions suffer is one of world—that credit unions could access. The Co-op image. People seem to think that they are only for the party has told me that such an arrangement would cost most impoverished, those who are cut off, but Islwyn about £10 million to £15 million, so it is not a lot. It Community Credit Union says that the vast majority of would increase credit union membership from 750,000 its members have jobs. The key is promoting credit at present to 2 million in five years. It would deliver 117WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 118WH

[Chris Evans] than in terms of housing. I would therefore encourage all local authorities to look at the example of Thurrock 100,000 new growth fund loans over five years. It is to see whether they can learn lessons about how to worth looking at that, and I hope the Minister will give engage in meaningful partnerships with credit unions to us more information when he responds. tackle some of the negative consequences of debt. Let me end by thanking every member of the all-party We should recognise that this is the time of year when group for showing an interest in this issue. In the debt issues are at their most acute, because Christmas is economic times in which we find ourselves, financial approaching. I want to highlight the reality for many of inclusion really is the most important subject, and I my constituents. In the main, they are ordinary, hard- thank everybody for turning up for the debate. working people; we are not characterised by high levels of affluence. Let me take Members for a little walk 3.12 pm down the high street in Grays. Midway down, we come Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): I pay tribute to across The Money Shop, which offers services such as my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian pawnbroking or gold to cash. It also offers a payday Hinds) for introducing the debate and for his active loan at £9.99 per £100, which sounds reasonable, and it championing of the credit union sector, of which everybody can be if people can pay it back within a month; if they in the Chamber is a keen supporter. We are all grateful cannot, they have no choice but to take out a fresh loan. for the good work he does, and we support him. Some customers find themselves taking out a fresh loan I am a huge supporter of credit unions. Before I every month and end up paying APRs of as much as entered this place, I was employed as a consumer advocate 260%. in the financial services industry. The burden of debt I give that example because we are in November and and the misery that increased indebtedness causes are in the run-up to Christmas, and people will be tempted probably among the biggest consumer issues of our to overextend themselves. That is particularly likely if time. The credit union sector plays a key role in tackling they cross Grays high street to BrightHouse. At present, the worst excesses and, perhaps more to the point, in the company is offering a 42-inch Philips LED TV for preventing people from becoming overburdened by £16.99 a month for three years. Closer examination indebtedness. shows the cash price is £1,196.36 but that, under the It is fair to say that one of the biggest causes of terms of the agreement, the customer will actually pay indebtedness is excessive charges on unauthorised overdrafts £2,650.44. and excessive credit card debt. That is fine if people can Such businesses have arrived in Grays only in the past access mainstream credit providers. This is where we get three years, but they are thriving because people with into the real contribution that credit unions can make. poor credit histories just cannot access loans from Once some people take on the burden of debt, the only banks any more and have no choice but to enter into thing for them to do is to go to less mainstream providers, such punitive arrangements, seduced as they are by which charge ever more punitive rates of interest and, at weekly payments that sound affordable on the face of it. their worst, involve levels of criminality. We all recognise the role credit unions can play in expanding the amount That is why credit unions are so important, and of affordable credit that can be accessed by people who access to affordable credit will help to tackle some of need to borrow. these issues. Credit unions are staffed by volunteers and owned by their members, and their customers access My constituency is served by a credit union called credit on terms that ensure they will not be exploited. Essex Savers, and I want to highlight the partnership it We all need to do our bit to raise awareness of the has with the local authority, which has enabled quite a facilities that credit unions can supply. significant expansion of services. Essex Savers came to Thurrock only one year ago, but it now has four branches I congratulate the Government on the new order, operating across the borough. It is an interesting example, which liberates credit unions from some of the legal because the local authority’s support does not involve constraints under which they operated. It is fair to say providing cash; it involves making the facilities the that the legal regime has been a barrier to enabling authority runs services from available to the credit some credit unions to achieve financial sustainability. It union and making the staff who deliver those services is really positive that they will be able to get deposits available for a couple of hours a week to take deposits. from businesses and partnerships from now on. Ultimately, That is really harnessing the voluntary aspects of the credit unions can lend only what they have in deposits. credit union and enabling a good partnership with the I, for one, will be engaging in a campaign to encourage organisations of government. When they come together, more people in my constituency to open savings accounts they can be most effective. These days, when credit with the credit union there. As the hon. Member for unions are looking for support, local authorities’ immediate Islwyn (Chris Evans) said, one of the biggest stigmas response is to say, “We’re sorry, but money’s tight. We that credit unions face is the idea that they are only for can’t help you.” With a bit of imagination, however, poor people. The message I want to send out is that Thurrock council has shown that it can give credit those of us who want, and are able, to save can make unions meaningful support. The growth in the number deposits with credit unions, in the full knowledge that of accounts and loans that Essex Savers has delivered in we are not only building a nest egg, but making money Thurrock through its four branches in one year is available for a good social purpose. nothing short of inspiring. Finally, having congratulated my hon. Friend the That arrangement makes perfect sense from a public Member for East Hampshire, I look forward to hearing policy perspective. As we know, debt is a contributory from the Minister what else the Government can do to cause of family breakdown, house repossessions and support this important sector. The legislative reform bankruptcy, all of which lead to additional burdens on order is obviously a move in the right direction. Credit the taxpayer, and the problem is nowhere more acute unions will be able to take advantage of the freedoms, 119WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 120WH to grow. However, the real challenge is for those that are That is the situation while the credit unions are able growing to achieve sustainability, particularly when there to offer their members limited services—essentially just are increased costs of complying with the FSA, audit deposits and loans. The beauty of the measures that we requirements and so on. One of the keys to building hope will proceed—courtesy of the draft Bill and the sustainability in the sector is thinking about how we can consultations undertaken by the devolved Department engage credit unions to deliver some Government services, and the Treasury in the past while, in response to the and make use of that facility to engage with the people report to the Northern Ireland Assembly of an inquiry who are hardest to reach. that I chaired—is the creation of at least the regulatory openings to allow credit unions in Northern Ireland to 3.20 pm offer increased services. That is because some historic Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): It is a pleasure to anomalies and legislative warps have limited what credit serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I commend unions in Northern Ireland can do. They are not regulated the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) by the Financial Services Authority. Therefore, they for obtaining the debate and for his good and active cannot offer services that are, by their nature, regulated work as chairman of the all-party group on credit by the FSA here. unions. I am conscious that the Minister who is to reply It looks as if we may be coming to a path forward in to the debate is from the Department for Work and that respect, but the credit union movement—both the Pensions because that Department has been closely Ulster federation and the Irish league—have concerns involved—recently, in particular—in the long awaited about the context and the detail of what is happening. LRO, which is so welcomed by credit unions in this The recent consultation was shortened to two months country. However, without detracting from the positive instead of three. People are worried that it has been points that have been made about the development and rushed, and that although the changes that could be potential of credit unions in Great Britain, I want to made afterwards have long been awaited, they may take highlight some points about credit unions in Northern place relatively quickly, before credit unions have been Ireland. I am aware that there are in the Chamber not able to prepare themselves properly, internally and externally, only officials from the DWP, but some with a relevant for their impact, and for all the requirements. There is interest from the Treasury. no point imposing change that will add to difficulties The LRO has long been sought by the credit union and make life hard for busy and effective credit unions. movement in Great Britain. It is great to see that advance, some of whose benefits were highlighted by The federation and the Irish league are also concerned the hon. Member for East Hampshire. Of course, that about the content of some of the changes. Some of the development, of itself, will not extend to credit unions proposed changes would take credit unions in Northern in Northern Ireland, as he mentioned, so we have a little Ireland backwards in relation to existing functions. One source of frustration. The Northern Ireland credit unions is the planned reduction in the maximum deposit limit. have spent many years campaigning to be able to offer Credit unions in Northern Ireland have a maximum as many services as their counterparts in Great Britain— deposit limit of £15,000. It was raised to that amount in their much smaller counterparts, both as to member 2006, because it needed to be. The proposal is that numbers and savings. At a time when it looks as if that under the new arrangements it will be scaled back to will now happen—at least the primary measure to permit £10,000. That will affect 48 credit unions in Northern it is coming with the draft Financial Services Bill—one Ireland, in which there are already people over that frustration makes Northern Ireland credit unions a wee savings limit. That is entirely consistent with the culture bit jealous: the LRO will further enhance what their of credit unions, which is about encouraging thrift counterparts in Great Britain can do compared with through growing savings. To ask credit unions to tell what they can do. Also, of course, there are issues to do some of their savers that they must take money away with some of the details of the regulation that might seems perverse. come from the Financial Conduct Authority, courtesy The credit unions that belong to the Irish League of of the Treasury’s plans in relation to the draft Bill and Credit Unions also offer, essentially, a free life-savings associated developments. Issues of context and content insurance service to their members. Whatever the value arise in relation to the change. of a member’s savings on death, a multiple of that will As the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members go to their next of kin. Therefore, imposing the new acknowledged, the credit union movement in Ireland at limit will mean a significant change in the benefit that large is very strong. It has a long history, well rooted in credit unions can offer their members. communities. It is also particularly strong in Northern Ireland. The roots of my predecessor, John Hume, were in the credit union movement: not only did he help to Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The hon. found the movement in my constituency, but he led it in Gentleman is right to point out the issues affecting Ireland in the 1960s. In Northern Ireland, we have 163 credit unions in Northern Ireland, and I agree with him. credit unions, 103 of which are affiliated to the Irish I have received representations on the issue of borrowing, League of Credit Unions. Those tend to be more mature; as have several hon. Members, and it is clear that they have been longer in existence. Some 60 credit members’ borrowing ability will be adversely affected, unions are associated with the Ulster Federation of with the effects that he suggests. In the case of Northern Credit Unions. The Irish league has 370,000 members Ireland, which has such a mature credit union movement, and there are 148,000 borrowing members with total would it not be a good idea for the FSA and the savings of more than £700 million and total loans of Government to consider the best examples of what has more than £430 million, so, given the size of the Northern happened there and perhaps import those, rather than Ireland population, we are talking about something imposing what is suggested for Great Britain on Northern quite significant. Ireland? 121WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 122WH

[Mr Nigel Dodds] to learn that a young lady doing work experience with me this week is watching the debate from the Gallery. Mark Durkan: I accept what the right hon. Gentleman She told me before we came to Westminster Hall that, says. Any changes proposed now should be about allowing as part of her enrichment class, she has just studied the and encouraging credit unions in Northern Ireland to role of credit unions. I have no idea what an enrichment go forward, not taking some of them backwards, and class is, but the fact that it is studying credit unions is a expanding their platform, rather than restricting the fantastic way to ensure that youngsters learn about a space in what they offer their members. He has made variety of sources— the point that the deposit restriction has a consequential effect, in some ways, on borrowing. Another issue, Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- although I shall not go into it here as time does not op): The hon. Lady makes an important point. Does permit, is the limit being imposed on unsecured loans. she agree that it is important that credit unions can Given that there is such a high rate of saving and very operate from an early stage in schools and involve healthy savings levels in credit unions in Northern Ireland, young people much more directly than by simply learning that restriction also seems perverse in its consequences. about them? There is also a proposal to limit the investment maturity period for any surplus sums that credit unions Tracey Crouch: I agree. As many providers as exist invest. Many credit unions in Northern Ireland are should be entitled to teach children about the variety of investing them very prudently, sometimes on three, four sources of financial awareness. I have been to primary or five-year terms. The changes proposed by the schools in my constituency and seen big banks supporting Government would limit them to one-year deals. In the financial education programmes, which I think is fantastic, circumstances, the logic of Government policy should but we should get as many people in there as possible. be about encouraging long-termism, prudence and sound I proudly declare, like many Members here, that I am investment in savings, so it seems perverse that credit a member of a credit union: Kent Savers, the county-wide unions in Northern Ireland are being told that they will credit union. I am also soon to be a member of Medway no longer be allowed to follow the good and effective credit union, which covers part of my constituency. practice in which they have been engaging for years, and Like others, I am passionate about tackling high-cost that they will have to move to a more varied and less credit, lending and financial inclusion, and see credit reliable pattern of dealing with investments. unions as part of the answer. That stems from my There are also issues with the transition to the new experience of living the high life in London as a young arrangements. Traditionally, credit unions in Northern graduate and stupidly running up debts, from which I Ireland have been registered with and regulated by the was saved by my bank manager, and of representing a Northern Ireland Department of Enterprise, Trade and constituency that has pockets of deprivation and associated Investment, albeit for a limited number of services. personal debt problems. Credit unions belonging to the Irish League of Credit Unions and the Ulster Federation of Credit Unions In the current economic climate, we must pay particularly have enjoyed their relationship with DETI. They have close attention to how much debt people take on as confidence in its officials, who have important insight pressure inevitably increases on household budgets. As and rapport. Members of Parliament, we have a duty to promote accessibility to fair and equitable credit, particularly, During any change or transition to the Financial although not exclusively, for those on low incomes. Conduct Authority, given that it will involve new things, That is why I share the enthusiasm for credit unions and as will the new regulation for credit unions in Northern believe that we must raise their profile. I am sure that I Ireland, it will be important to have a strong support join many hon. Members here in having done so through programme in place. The devolved Administration should local media. support that, but I also hope that the Treasury and DWP will be sympathetic, because the kinds of measure I have met representatives of Kent Savers and Medway that we want during the transition and development credit union, the latter as recently as last Friday, and period are akin to the sorts of support that the Department have learned a great deal more about credit unions’ has been happy to give to members of the Association services, benefits and duties. Northern Irish Members of British Credit Unions Ltd and credit unions in this will be interested to know that they spoke favourably of country. the credit unions in Ireland and Northern Ireland. One I wanted to take advantage of the debate, secured by director is from Ireland and is helping to bring that the hon. Member for East Hampshire, to set out some experience to Medway. of the concerns. The story of credit union development As a mutual, a credit union has an ethos of responsibility in Northern Ireland has been good and strong. We and inclusion—traits especially welcome in Medway, could be on the threshold of something positive, but which, sadly, has problems with unmanageable debt. there is a danger that unnecessary detail will detract Responsibility and inclusion go hand in hand and are from that potential. crucial features in running credit unions fairly and equitably. Much is admirable in credit unions’ ability to 3.31 pm open up opportunities to take out reasonable loans for Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): As people on low incomes or with bad credit history. The always, Mr Streeter, it is a pleasure to serve under your alternatives, as I have found in Medway, are far less chairmanship. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member appealing. As in the constituency of my hon. Friend the for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) on securing the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price), several high- debate. cost credit lenders have set up shops prominently situated The hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) spoke on busy high streets. They are the antithesis of credit passionately about financial literacy.He might be interested unions. 123WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 124WH

Consumers took out £1.9 billion in payday loans last Financial difficulty is not limited to younger generations year, which is £500 million more than in the previous seeking loans to cover rent, bills or insuring the family year. That trend is a concern and it is broadly reflected car. I read a worrying report called “Debt and generations” in the Medway area. Shockingly, at the local citizens commissioned by the Consumer Credit Counselling advice bureau recently, a record £3 million in unsecured Service, and I urge hon. Members to read it. It revealed personal debt walked through the doors in one week. I a minority of older people with extremely high levels of have since been informed that loans and the interest debt and a notable number of older households with associated with payday lending account for a worrying high repayment-to-income ratios. proportion of that £3 million. That is a great shame, For instance, 12% of over-55s have a repayment-to- and I have campaigned against it as a local Member of income ratio of 30%, compared to only 9% of those Parliament. aged 18 to 24. Also, a great many older people are less Such businesses deal in large sums of money and able to mitigate the effect of an unexpected bill or small print. They are identifiable by their glossy shop change in circumstance. A reduction of just £50 to their fronts, but they offer less attractive interest rates, targeting monthly income, for example, doubles the likelihood of people on low incomes who are in financial difficulty. the oldest age groups becoming financially vulnerable Sure, if they pay back the loan in time, the rate might be and, potentially, taking out costly loans to meet the lower over 30 days than a high street bank’s overdraft shortfall. I think we all agree that it would be far more charge, but the very fact that someone has gone to a preferable for older people faced with those difficulties payday loan company rather than a bank might indicate to approach credit unions instead. that they are a credit risk. No controls are placed on I am conscious of the time, so I will finish by saying borrowing—a remarkable difference from credit unions. that the Government have taken some welcome steps The emergence of payday loan shops on high streets with the legislative reform order and other measures. I and the accessibility of easy credit on the internet think we all welcome those steps and I look forward to appear to offer a quick fix. It might be financial inclusion reading the Government’s study, to which their formal of a sort, but the reality of high-cost credit is very response on consumer credit alludes, on credit unions different. It can be irresponsible on the part of the and how they will be encouraged to grow and prosper. lender and self-defeating for the consumer, placing them deeper into debt and excluding them from accessing the 3.40 pm lending market in the future, which credit unions do Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I am delighted to not do. see you in the Chair, Mr Streeter. I congratulate the On Monday, I was pleased to note the Government’s hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) on response to the consumer credit and personal insolvency securing the debate, on his work chairing the all-party review. I was particularly encouraged to learn that they group on credit unions, and on his thoughtful and well will consider the possibility of imposing a variable cap informed observations at the start of the debate. His on the cost of high-cost credit that can be charged in the constituency and mine have similar names, although short to medium-term high-cost credit market, while they are rather different places. We both, however, have talking up the credentials of credit unions as an alternative. constituents who owe a great deal to their local credit It is worth making the point that credit unions are unions. I will touch on that during my remarks. more than just a lending service. To take out a loan, We have had friendly societies for a long time, since members must first commit to saving, which is an the early 18th century, when the chaos of the period equally important feature of managing their finances. brought the need for the greater security that mutual Given that only 20% of people in the UK reportedly action was able to provide. The idea of working put aside money each month, more clearly needs to be co-operatively to ensure that people are provided for in done to encourage saving. Credit unions offer a great times of want and have a secure haven for their money, opportunity to help to reverse that trend with a more drawing on the resources of the community, continues innovative method of depositing cash, receiving a dividend to be very important. and earning the possibility of taking out a loan. By The previous Government made a number of widely committing to saving, members provide a cushion for supported changes to enable the development of new those unexpected emergencies that we hear so much dynamism and opportunity to the credit union and about from payday loan lenders, while avoiding mutual sector. We recognised that the way the law astronomical interest rates. treated credit unions in a number of respects was holding I learned last week that Medway credit union is them back. That was the reason why, in 2002, the developing a Christmas savings scheme that encourages previous Government brought credit unions under the members to put aside money for Christmas essentials. regulatory aegis of the Financial Services Authority. Christmas is an expensive time of year. Given the The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) gave a pressure on families to spend, the temptation for those good example in his intervention of that arrangement on low incomes to buy now and pay later is strong. working very well. The hon. Member for East Hampshire However, under the scheme, reserves gradually built up was also right to sound a cautionary note about some over time will be on hand to cover the cost of the festive of the risks for credit unions in the current re-regulation family season and steer families away from alternative process. high-cost credit. Most importantly, what makes the The previous Government then took steps to enable Christmas saving scheme attractive is that it is secure. credit unions to modernise while retaining what has Credit unions have an important role to play for always made them unique, starting with permitting older people, who are often financially excluded. I have them to communicate electronically in 2007, which was spoken before in this Chamber about my concerns for previously not allowed. We also committed to looking the financial welfare and education of our pensioners. at how to reform the legislation on their membership, 125WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 126WH

[Stephen Timms] said, such a facility is widely used elsewhere and it is estimated that consumers will have significant savings and that was the background, in 2008, to what became in credit costs if such an arrangement can be put in the Legislative Reform (Industrial and Provident Societies place. It might also provide a mechanism to release and Credit Unions) Order 2011, which will modernise more than £1 billion in the Post Office card account the common bond and which has been widely welcomed float, which could be lent to social fund customers, as during the debate. I note, however, the cautionary well as providing, as my hon. Friend said, the potential observations made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark to significantly increase the size of credit unions. Is the Durkan) about the possible effects in Northern Ireland. Minister able to say something about that? It is clearly right that as communities have changed, One major disappointment is the missed opportunity— so the restrictions that the common bond places on many of us felt this—in relation to Northern Rock. My credit unions should change, too. Allowing businesses, right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North raised housing associations and social enterprises to become the issue of the extension and expansion of the mutual partners with credit unions reflects the reality of financial sector in his question to the Prime Minister communities today and the opportunities in them. earlier today. We have not really received an explanation It was not just the previous Labour Government who of why the option of a member-led remutualisation, introduced changes to the sector. Both the former Member which was proposed by the Co-operative party, was not for Bournemouth West, Sir John Butterfill, and my accepted. There are some big questions to be asked right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm about the sale of Northern Rock. When will the Minister Wicks) tabled private Members’ Bills, which helped the and his hon. Friends publish the advice of United sector by reflecting the extent of consensus and support. Kingdom Financial Investments Ltd and Deutsche Bank, Like others, I hope that the Minister will make some so that we can see exactly why a mutual Northern Rock favourable observations about the prospects for the was ruled out? I know that the Treasury said that imminent implementation of the legislative reform order. remutualisation would have meant gifting value currently Partly—perhaps largely—as a result of support given held by the Exchequer to members of the new mutual, to the sector by Government, there has been significant but we have not been told whether the Treasury is growth in the size and scale of the credit union movement, gifting £250 million of Northern Rock’s existing equity particularly over the past decade, in terms of numbers to Virgin, or what the difference in principle is between and of the amount saved, as my hon. Friend the Member those two exchanges. A mutual Northern Rock would for Islwyn (Chris Evans) rightly pointed out. I pay have been very attractive. tribute to the work of the Association of British Credit Members have rightly touched on other aspects of Unions in supporting the sector and its consistent and financial inclusion and exclusion. My hon. Friend the effective effort on behalf of credit unions. Recent unaudited Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) has made data from the association note that credit unions grew great strides in advancing the argument for a cap on by nearly 15% in just the first six months of 2009, which interest rates in the UK, and there are pros and cons to reflects what was happening elsewhere, I guess, in the that proposal. Before the election, as I recall, the financial services industry. Conservative party pledged that there would be a cap In Westminster Hall last week, I set out the case of on excessive store card interest rates, to protect the my constituent who was about to start her university public and help prevent people from falling into problem course and was unfairly denied a bank account after she debt. I was present at an event at the Barbican where the became a victim of fraud when her card was stolen. She former Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Chancellor, was only able to take up her university place because the the hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Greg Hands), local credit union, NewCred, of which I am too a said that the cap would be the firm policy of the member, as are other Members, was willing to offer her Conservative party, and it subsequently appeared in a an account. Because she had run into problems with her policy document. Will the Minister let us know what bank account, a reference was made to CIFAS—the the plans for that measure now are? credit industry fraud avoidance system—which meant I welcome the strong support expressed for the credit that she could not get an account from any bank at all. union sector in the debate. The growth of the sector has NewCred was the only institution able to offer her an been greatly helped by Government support in the past account, and had it not been for that she would not decade or more. I, with others, hope that the Minister have been able to take up her place at university, because will be able to confirm today that support will be she would not have been able to receive her student loan maintained, and that the sector will have the potential cheque or have an account for it to be paid into. to expand further in the period ahead. Like other Members, I hope that the Minister will be able to confirm the continuation of his Department’s 3.50 pm funding for credit unions. That has been a valuable The Minister of State, Department for Work and source of support over recent years; the hon. Member Pensions (Chris Grayling): It is a pleasure to serve under for East Hampshire mentioned the figure of £73 million, your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. It has been an extremely which has been spoken of in this context. I also hope informed and useful debate. I congratulate my hon. that the Government will support credit union access Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) through the Post Office, to which my right hon. Friend on securing it, on the extensive work that he has clearly the Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) drew attention done chairing the all-party group, and on his involvement during an intervention. in the credit union fair today. It is with fortuitous timing I echo the appeal made by my hon. Friend the Member that we debate this issue at the same time as the fair, for Islwyn for the creation of a central finance facility. which showcased the valuable work of credit unions. He has talked about the cost of setting it up, but as he There is a greater focus on both events as a result, but I 127WH Credit Unions23 NOVEMBER 2011 Credit Unions 128WH particularly pay tribute to my hon. Friend and his about the legislative reform order this afternoon. As I colleagues for their involvement in the fair—a sign of am relatively new to the issue, I had not followed the hon. Members not just talking, but acting—and showcasing extensive process to the degree described by my hon. work by a sector that we all agree plays a very valuable Friend the Member for East Hampshire, but the order role in our society, particularly in tackling debt, which is there. It is happening. It will help to improve coverage. can be a massive burden on lower income families. The amendment to the Credit Union Act 1979 effectively One of the consequences of the credit crunch is that opens up membership of credit unions to new groups, it is now more difficult for families on low income to such as housing association tenants and employees of a obtain credit. The consequence can be to trap people in national company, even if some of those people live poverty, which makes it more difficult for many people outside the geographical area served by the credit union. to improve their work situation, as it constrains job It was either the right hon. Member for Oxford East search activity and makes financial planning much harder (Mr Smith) or the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris to manage. Of course, it also denies people access to Evans) who pointed out that it is important for credit certain types of job; for example, those that include unions to spread their umbrella over a wider area than handling cash are not necessarily available to people they do at the moment. My hon. Friend the Member for with poor credit records. It means that people have East Hampshire made a point about credit unions more demands on their finances, more to lose if something becoming the bankers of the big society. He is correct to goes wrong, and are therefore perhaps more cautious say that there is potential to drive deep into the heart of about changing their financial situation; for example, the communities that they serve. by leaving the relative security of the benefits system Mr Andrew Turner: I want to point out, and I am sure and moving into work, even though we all know that that the Minister would agree, that the people who run once they are established in work, they are much better credit unions have made a great contribution. When the off in the long run. Isle of Wight credit union ceased to exist, the new We are dealing with the problem of debt that entrenches amalgamated credit union of Hampshire and the Isle of people in poverty. We know that those on low incomes Wight did a great deal of work, which was carried out are at the greatest risk of ending up in debt and, as a by individuals voluntarily in the constituencies. result, are often the least equipped to cope with it. One of the principal causes of debt for those on low incomes Chris Grayling: I pay tribute to all those involved. is that the majority have few or no savings. When an This is the essence of the credit union movement, and unexpected financial pressure occurs—an essential indeed the essence of the co-operative movement as a household appliance stops working; for example, the whole. If I have one regret politically, looking back over fridge breaks down—they have to resort to borrowing history, it is that the co-operative movement found itself to make ends meet. However, they are treated as high-risk on the left of politics rather than the right. The co-operative borrowers by the financial services sector and have to spirit has much in common with the spirit that we on pay a high price for their credit. We have heard very the Government side of the House represent. Many of articulate arguments this afternoon about the problems the changes that we are putting in place are designed to that can create, and about various lenders in the try and encourage people to work together. Within the marketplace. My hon. Friend the Member for Chatham credit union movement, we find that writ large. and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) made valuable points As a result of the changes in the review, credit unions about the risks to families on very low incomes and the will be able to pay a guaranteed rate of interest on huge price that they can pay for access to some of the members’ savings. We hope that will help them to things that those who are able to access mainstream attract more savings, and so make more affordable financial services find easy. credit available in the community. We also want them to Credit unions offer a valuable alternative service. By do more. We want them to look to the future, reach out working within communities and helping those most in to offer new products to many more potential members, need of support, they help people to manage their and work to provide the services that landlords and financial affairs. Hon. Members play a valuable role. It their other partners want. We need them to become has been interesting to hear how many of them give more efficient, better known and more attractive— active support as members of their local credit union. effectively, to move to the next level of potential for the As the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen credit union movement. Timms) said, successive Governments have supported Credit unions need to reduce their costs, increase credit unions and directly helped the sector to grow. We their capacity, and operate more efficiently by sharing are keen to continue that support in a sustainable way; back-office activity. The right hon. Member for East we believe that it is important. That is why we have Ham asked a question about that. The creation of a agreed to continue providing support from the growth central financial wholesale organisation for credit unions fund while we carry out a feasibility study into how we is being examined by the feasibility study, which is should help the sector to develop in the future. We have looking at a wide range of different options. It is being allocated £11.8 million to continue to support credit led by a project steering committee, supported by the unions and other community financial institutions in Department for Work and Pensions. I am pleased that this fiscal year. We want credit unions to continue to be the issue of jam jar accounts was raised. Financial part of the financial services landscape. products such as jam jar accounts are very much part of We also have a duty to ensure that credit unions the study. operate efficiently and offer a good range of services to Mr Andrew Smith: I am very grateful to the Minister a wide range of people. Many credit unions are run at a for giving way. He mentioned the feasibility study and loss. Many do not offer the same range of products and the welcome agenda of work it is addressing. Can he services. Many cannot provide services that are available give us any indication of when the study is likely to in another part of the country. We have heard much report? 129WH Credit Unions 23 NOVEMBER 2011 130WH

Chris Grayling: As the right hon. Gentleman knows, Morocco the study is being chaired by Deanna Oppenheimer of Barclays bank. She has just finalised her report with her team, and the recommendations will be presented to 4.6 pm Ministers shortly. We hope to be able to make that information available to the House before too long. We Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): It have not seen the report yet, but there will not be long is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, to wait. Clearly, that restricts some of my ability to Mr Streeter. provide detailed answers to questions raised today, because The UK and Morocco go back a long way, and it is these are matters that will be in the report. However, I my great pleasure to have this opportunity to discuss hope that it will provide a clear blueprint and a clear the Government’s policy towards one of this country’s direction of travel for the sector for the future. greatest friends and allies. Fortunately, unlike France We are bringing credit unions into Jobcentre Plus and Spain, Britain has avoided the acquisitive behaviour offices to try to create a greater link between credit that so complicates their history with Morocco, with a unions and the work Jobcentre Plus is doing for the single, brief exception in 17th-century Tangier. Our unemployed. The committee consulted the Post Office amicable relationship has been enhanced recently by the on its potential role working in partnership with credit appointment of King Mohammed VI’s esteemed and unions. That could have benefits. A number of hon. able cousin, Her Highness Princess Lalla Joumala Alaoui, Members made the point that such a partnership would as ambassador to London. be valuable. We will know more when the study is In 2013 arises an opportunity to cement the relationship published. further, with the 800th anniversary of the first official We regard the sector as enormously important. We contact between the two countries. In 1213, King John want to see credit unions grow and develop in an sent an emissary to petition support from Sultan effective and efficient way, delivering support to those Mohammed Ennassir. It would be a great pity if that in debt at the bottom end of the income scale, driving to opportunity were lost, and I am interested to hear what the heart of communities, attracting savings from a proposals the Government have to celebrate the occasion broader range of people and sources, and absolutely at or, if they have none, whether they will give the matter the heart of what we hope to deliver for local communities some serious thought. and, as my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire says, the big society, through the community groups On Friday, Morocco goes to the polls, and they will that will give support right across the country. be keenly watched in the South West Wiltshire constituency, a division with more Moroccan residents than any other outside the M25. The election will cement the 4pm “new constitution project” for a citizen-based monarchy, Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. accepted in a referendum with a remarkably high turnout on 1 July. A polling station for that was set up in Trowbridge in my constituency, which I had the great pleasure of visiting. The new Parliament will have the task of giving statutory expression to the will of the people as expressed in the referendum. The way it conducts itself will be important in facing down the critics, the more considered of whom cite scope for interpretation of caveats to the clauses in the new constitution, the reliance of the new constitution’s articles on what are called organic laws, which have not yet been written, and recourse to special commissions chaired by the King to determine much of the change anticipated. It is important to set the context for this year’s historic referendum and general election. Morocco has, to a large extent, stood apart from the violence and disorder of the Arab Spring. The present King, Mohammed VI, has ruled for 12 years and is generally credited with liberalising his country and shifting it towards a constitutional democracy within the historic and religious constraints of a society that remains deeply conservative and traditional. His regime contrasts sharply with that of his father, Hassan II, who presided over the post-colonial period during what became known unflatteringly as the years of lead. It is significant that King Mohammed, early in his reign, pardoned thousands of prisoners, set up an arbitration body to compensate families of opposition leaders who had disappeared and caused credible elections to take place. There has been a marked improvement in the position of women, with a quota for the Parliament that will be the envy of many in this House. The rights of women have been enhanced by the King’s family law, and he has insisted that the Berber language should be 131WH Morocco23 NOVEMBER 2011 Morocco 132WH taught in primary schools, a measure that complements In the summer, the Foreign Secretary and the Moroccan his move towards regional autonomy in Morocco, including Foreign Minister, Mr Fassi Fihri, signed a memorandum western Sahara. of understanding on deportation on the grounds of In June, King Mohammed laid out his proposals for terrorism and national security, but the detail was left the referendum. The King surrendered his right to out. Can the Minister explain the practical consequences appoint a Prime Minister and uprated the status of the of the memorandum now, how he sees it developing, premier to Head of Government, with the consequent and within what time scale? right to dissolve Parliament. The King lost the right to It has been reported that the streams of intelligence appoint regional leaders. The new constitution endorsed from north Africa have reduced in recent years and by the referendum explicitly upholds human rights, months, probably as a result of political developments, promises religious freedom, prohibits torture, backs the disappearance of old lines of communications with, freedom of thought, opinion and expression, permits thankfully, vanishing regimes and general chaos in the free assembly and peaceful demonstration, and should region. If so, it means that Morocco’s significance has facilitate a more free press. It calls for gender equality, increased. Indeed, attacks in Casablanca and Marrakesh and gives the minority Berber language official status. and the involvement of Moroccan nationals in the 2004 There is an interesting version of the separation of Madrid bombings notwithstanding, terrorist activity in Church and state in the differentiation of the powers of and linked to Morocco has been limited, and commentators the King as Head of State and as commander of the have suggested that that is due in part to effective faithful, which may be of interest to those in the UK intelligence gathering and co-operation with western who are concerned about the established Church, and agencies. the Monarch as supreme governor. The proposals overhaul I appreciate that the Minister cannot be specific in the judiciary, and even offer an ombudsman service, but this forum, but can he comment on the development of reaction in the west has been mixed, with The Economist intelligence co-operation with Morocco? As Tehran leading under the mean-spirited headline, “A very small continues to act as the bully boy of the middle east, step”. However, it is, without doubt, a step in the right what significance does he attach to Moroccan good direction, and one that I am sure the Minister will sense in cutting off diplomatic relations with the monstrous support. Iranian regime in 2009 after it started to spread its Perhaps because of the peaceful evolutionary change fundamentalism to the peaceful and moderate Sunni that is under way in Morocco, the country has avoided kingdom? much of the mayhem seen elsewhere in north Africa. It There are major threats to Morocco from challenging is true that there were significant protests in Moroccan frontier security issues, and difficult-to-regulate migration. cities early this year, but as far as we can tell, they were The barely governed space of southern Algeria, Mali less intent on regime change than in other countries and Niger, and vast area of the western Sahara offers a involved in the Arab Spring. The relatively few protestors potential nest to fundamentalist terror organisations, who took to the streets of Rabat, Tangier and Casablanca including al-Qaeda-affiliated groups. To what extent in the run-up to the general election focused on the does the Minister believe that Morocco’s ability to Makzhen or palace elite. That is said to represent a road engage in intelligence and security has been degraded block to reform, which organisations such as the Brookings by the Binyam Mohamed episode? Institution maintain is happening too slowly. If there is Although the UK does not provide direct bilateral a criticism of what is going on in Morocco at the aid to the western Saharan people, the European moment, it usually involves the rate of change, rather Commission’s humanitarian aid office certainly does. than the direction of travel. The UK provides direct assistance to help to promote As for the protests organised by the 20 February stability and to alleviate poverty in sub-Saharan Africa, organisation and so on, it is difficult to know what and I was informed before the election that the Government significance to assign to them, given that Morocco is were working on the EU to direct EU stability instrument caught in a pincer between economically inspired unrest funding to help to address the security situation. Can in Europe and the Arab Spring in north Africa and the the Minister offer a progress report? What progress has middle east. It is also reasonable to point out that been made in establishing a new embassy in Mali and stridency among émigrés, which is generally a barometer political offices in Mauritania, as heralded in January for unrest in troubled countries, has certainly not been 2010 by the then Minister of State at the Foreign experienced in respect of Morocco. I get the feeling Office? from my Moroccan community, many members of which The previous Government showed interest in the return regularly to Morocco and certainly have family Moroccan imam training scheme in marginalising the there, and through the British Moroccan association to religious fundamentalism that is the cause of so much the Moroccan Community Association, whose meetings trouble elsewhere. The scheme was exploring whether on the parliamentary estate I attend, that the reforms UK imams might train in Morocco, and I wonder that are under way are welcomed and appropriate. whether there has been any progress on that. In recent years, there has been significant security In 2010, the House was informed that bilateral defence and judicial co-operation between Morocco and the activity was “modest but important”, and the most UK. Clearly, the ungoverned spaces of the Sahel present significant seems to be Exercise Jebel Sahara, which is a threat to the west, and desertification makes it more run regularly in the region of Marrakesh. Can the likely that populations will move north. The Government Minister say how he anticipates bilateral defence activity of Morocco give every indication of appreciating the being developed, and for what purpose? threat that that poses to peace and concord within their Helped by Morocco’s association agreement with the borders, and the danger of being seen as a repository of EU, the EU accounts for 60% of Morocco’s exports, criminality threatening southern Europe. 80% of tourism receipts and most of its large income 133WH Morocco23 NOVEMBER 2011 Morocco 134WH

[Dr Andrew Murrison] gender equality and protect minority rights. My hon. Friend mentioned that the king himself has been very from foreign remittances. So given the strong prospect much involved with the issue of gender equality, which of a double-dip recession in the eurozone, depression in is to be applauded. We welcome Morocco’s decision to southern Europe and the country’s wide and growing ratify the optional protocol on the convention against trade deficit, it seems likely that the pressures on Morocco torture, which shows seriousness in this regard. The from the young, educated unemployed will increase parliamentary elections on Friday are the first to occur with every chance of an escalation in civil unrest and under the new constitution and have the potential to potential for terrorists to feed off poverty and grievance. herald a new era in Moroccan politics. Morocco is a relatively small trading partner for the The UK strongly supports the ongoing process of UK, in contrast with, for example, France, but what constitutional reform and looks forward to observing measures are being taken to improve trade in goods and free and fair elections in Morocco. There is generally a services between the two countries, and how does the good level of freedom of expression in Morocco, but, as Minister believe that might help to avoid the turmoil my hon. Friend pointed out, there are still some restrictions, elsewhere in the region with its attendant security threats? particularly in relation to criticism of the monarchy, In January, I had an Adjournment debate on the Islam and Morocco’s claim to Western Sahara. A number western Sahara, when the Under-Secretary of State for of high profile cases are a reminder that there is still Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend more that the Moroccan authorities can do in that the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), respect. responded. Can the Minister provide an update on the Our embassy maintains good, close working relationships Government’s contribution to steering this central issue with human rights institutions and civil society activists. for sub-regional stability to a safe place? What has It has run several human rights-related projects in recent Baroness Ashton and the portentously named EU External years, including on penal reform and alternatives to the Action Service been up to? If we must have it, it might death penalty, and on supporting human rights institutions. as well do something useful in the EU’s near abroad, Coupled with the reforms already being carried out, the which the western Sahara most certainly is. recent constitutional change and Friday’s election reinforces Voting arrangements for the Moroccan elections this Morocco’s reputation as a leader of change in the Friday are based on Moroccan ancestry, rather than region. residency or citizenship. That means that a large Moroccan While setting an example in the region on political ex-pat community is potentially involved, although the reform, Morocco has a major role to play in regional arrangements are rather more complex than for the stability. At a time of great historic change in the referendum held in the summer. There is certainly confusion Maghreb region, the need for strengthened political, at the bewildering array of parties on offer, and I regret economic and security relationships across the region that the very good polling stations that we saw for the appears all the more pressing. An improved relationship referendum will not be available again on Friday. between Algeria and Morocco is vital. I therefore warmly Nevertheless, I am sure that the Minister will take a welcome the news that the Moroccan and Algerian keen interest in the outcome and in the Government Foreign Ministers met in Rabat last week; it was the who emerge, who will be headed for the first time by a first meeting at this level for 14 years. According to Prime Minister who can be said to be truly head of the some experts, improved trade between Maghreb countries Government. could double the impact of any concessions made by In a similar vein, the Minister will have noted that at the European Union and United States. Enhanced regional the Inter-Parliamentary Union assembly at Berne in co-operation could also contribute to a more favourable October the Speaker of the Moroccan House of dynamic for the resolution of the status of Western Representatives, Mr Abdelwahed Radi, was elected Sahara. president. Will the Minister join me in welcoming this important totemic step as Morocco moves towards a I must also acknowledge the role played by Morocco commendable new settlement based on constitutional in reaching out across the Maghreb to the wider region. democracy? In relation to Syria, Morocco did not hesitate to join the calls of the international community in condemning the use of violence against civilians. Its support for 4.19 pm political change in Libya and high-level engagement at The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign the Libya contact group formed an important element and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): It is of Arab support for the National Transitional Council. a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. My hon. Friend mentioned Western Sahara. Morocco I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South has demonstrated its ability to play a constructive role West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) on securing this debate in the region, and we encourage Morocco to continue and thank him for the work that he does as chairman of its efforts, particularly with regard to Western Sahara. the all-party group. I am aware of the exemplary way in We fully support the efforts led by the UN to encourage which he represents a large part of the Moroccan diaspora all parties to reach a mutually acceptable solution that who are based in Trowbridge, where, historically, they provides for the self-determination of the people of worked in the food processing industry. I want to set out Western Sahara. The kidnapping of European aid workers our approach to the internal and regional issues pertinent from the Tindouf camps is of grave concern and it to Morocco before dealing with the key features of our raises questions about the safety of those in the Polisario- bilateral relationship. controlled camps, as well as the threat posed by al-Qaeda Morocco’s determination to implement political reforms in the Maghreb across the Sahel. This incident also predates the Arab Spring. Indeed, the new constitution underlines the need to find a solution to secure the takes steps to increase the power of Parliament, advance futures of the refugee population. 135WH Morocco23 NOVEMBER 2011 Morocco 136WH

My hon. Friend asked about the EU’s External Action The Arab Partnership also works to leverage funding Service. I assure him that we are in close discussions and support through multilateral organisations, particularly with the service. I agree with him that it is important the G8 and EU, to provide a strengthened offer of that the service does not try to replicate what members support to the region. Morocco’s commitment to reform of the EU are doing, but that it works in a symbiotic, has long been recognised by the EU. Indeed, it was the complementary way and tries to add value to the work first near neighbour to achieve an association agreement that they are doing rather than cutting across initiatives in 2000 and an action plan for advanced status in 2008. and diplomacy that are already in place. As far as the EU’s External Action Service is concerned, we will be working alongside it to make sure that this I am pleased to report to the House that the UK is action plan for advanced status is moved into the next engaged in an open dialogue with Morocco and other phase. The UK supports greater conditionality, both parties to the frozen conflict. We are committed to positive and negative, in the EU’s relations with all its working with the international community to try to find southern neighbourhood partners. As we move forward, a successful resolution. We cannot forget the humanitarian this is an opportunity for Morocco to demonstrate, and tragedy caused by the continued stalemate between the be rewarded for, its internal reform efforts. parties, in some cases separating family members for more than 35 years. Morocco has made commitments My hon. Friend mentioned judicial co-operation. to providing safeguards for the human rights of all The Arab Spring produced new opportunities for greater those living in the disputed territory, as noted in the UN partnership. We have been working with Morocco Security Council resolution 1979 in April. Our approach consistently over a number of years and are reaping the to the annual renewal of the mandate for the UN benefits of a reinvigorated bilateral relationship. He peacekeeping forces in Western Sahara remains under mentioned the memorandum of understanding with consideration. I encourage Morocco to demonstrate Morocco concerning the provision of assurances in firm progress against those commitments well in advance respect of people subject to deportation on grounds of of the Security Council discussions next April. national security. This MOU forms one component of a wider judicial package, and it will continue to be developed I hope that Morocco’s recent election to a non-permanent and moved forward. This will pave the way for greater seat on the Security Council will provide a special co-ordination to ensure the protection of citizens. I can impetus in this regard. We look forward to working assure my hon. Friend that we are taking this very with Morocco to address all threats to international seriously indeed. We are pleased that the Foreign Ministers peace and security during its two-year tenure. We consider were able to sign the MOU in September. The final Morocco to be a close ally on complex regional matters, exchange of letters is ongoing but near completion, and and we will be seeking its expertise and experience. obviously this forms part of a much wider judicial I will say a word or two about our bilateral relationship, package to increase security and co-operation between which we regard as very important. Since Morocco’s our two countries. independence in 1956, UK-Morocco relations have grown Let me say something about security and co-operation. steadily in importance. Today, nearly 400,000 British As well as harmonising our judicial systems, we have holidaymakers visit Morocco every year, and there is a been directly co-operating with Morocco on terrorism renewed strength and impetus to the political relationship. and narcotics. The bombing of the Argana restaurant The range and depth of our bilateral contacts reflects in Marrakesh last April killed 17 people, including one this. As a sign of our joint wish to deepen co-operation, British national, and demonstrated the shared threat the Foreign Secretary and the Moroccan Foreign Minister that our countries face from terrorism. We have a good agreed a bilateral partnership agenda in March, setting record of co-operating with Morocco, and the Moroccan out a number of key areas for closer working. Indeed, police investigating that incident conducted their inquiries the Foreign Secretary made his first official visit to in line with post-bomb blast management provided by Morocco last month, demonstrating the importance the UK—a good example of close and constructive that our Government place on this relationship. co-operation between our two countries. We also sent a In addition, the successful official visit of Their Royal special police unit to aid the investigation, and we are Highnesses the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall now looking at technical work to share expertise in the last April signifies the strong civil society links between use of CCTV.I hope that has answered my hon. Friend’s our countries. The Westminster Foundation for Democracy question about security and co-operation, and we will is involved in parliamentary exchange programmes, and write to him on any additional points that may be the British Council has established links between 60 relevant. Moroccan and 40 British schools through the Connecting The security of Morocco’s borders is of direct concern Classrooms project. to the UK given the flow of illegal drugs and migration I will say a quick word about the Arab Partnership, from west Africa into Europe. Many of the drugs that one of the most pertinent areas of our Government’s flow from Latin America into Europe come via west co-operation. This initiative leads the UK’s strategic African countries and up through north Africa. The approach to the Arab Spring, working with those in the Moroccan authorities have publicly committed themselves region to develop more open societies underpinned by to tackling the cocaine trade, and they have requested vibrant economies. We are committed to supporting assistance from the UK and Spain to combat trafficking those aspirations. In Morocco, our focus is on political and terrorism. Such support is part of our enhanced participation and transparency—areas that Moroccans security and intelligence co-operation, and we will give themselves identified as key to the country’s progress. it added impetus in the immediate future. Our programme, worth approximately £500,000, is As my hon. Friend will know, the Government have providing targeted, rapid assistance in areas where the placed a great priority on improving commercial links UK can add best value. with many countries, and no country is too small to 137WH Morocco 23 NOVEMBER 2011 138WH

[Mr Henry Bellingham] Freeview Channels prevent us from working tirelessly to increase bilateral trade. The UK will solve its economic problems only 4.35 pm through the export-led recovery that the Prime Minister Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I am last but and Chancellor have talked so much about. not least, Mr Streeter. I am grateful for the opportunity We are, therefore, looking to exploit future opportunities. to hold this debate. The mechanism for allocating channels Morocco is an emerging economy and we are focused is particularly important to the largest private sector on building up our bilateral trade. I am pleased that company in my constituency, the shopping channel International Power has recently secured energy contracts QVC, which employs more than 2,000 people nationwide, to operate a wind farm and coal-fired power stations, the majority of whom are based in Knowsley. Most of and I hope that other British business will follow suit. QVC’s work force are based in the UK, even though the My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that UK Trade company could move elsewhere given the nature of its & Investment will take an outwards trade delegation to business. Morocco in January, and we also hope to restructure Although it sounds complicated and will involve a lot the Moroccan British Business Council and increase its of acronyms, the issue under discussion is quite effectiveness as a vehicle for creating vibrant business straightforward. QVC’s viewing figures and revenue are opportunities. We see Morocco as an increasingly attractive dependent on viewers being able to find it. As it stands, investment for UK companies—four UK law firms finding QVC is easy—as long as the channel remains have established offices in Casablanca this year alone—and the same—and it has 1.1 million loyal customers and Her Majesty’s Government can play a role in encouraging many more viewers. Control of the channel number, that trend. however, rests in the hands of an organisation owned by As my hon. Friend said, Morocco is probably one of its competitors. Such an arrangement could work with the most advanced countries in north Africa in terms of proper forward-facing regulation, but Ofcom does not democratic reform, and the way to embed such reform actively regulate the process of channel allocation. is through trade and the creation of prosperity and There have been three attempts to change the channel’s wealth. The more ties based on trade that countries location in recent years, and another is imminent. We such as Morocco have, the more likely it is that the rule know that channel changes can lead to loss of revenue of law will prevail in the future and good governance in excess of 35% per home. If Freeview channels were will remain. retail premises, it would be the equivalent of allowing I hope that I have responded to most of my hon. major supermarkets to move the location of a smaller Friend’s points, and that he agrees that the UK and competitor at will. The issue, therefore, is about fair Morocco now have the opportunity to move forward competition and appropriate regulation, to allow this together in a reinvigorated bilateral relationship. We thriving industry to create and sustain UK jobs. must look at other ways of underpinning that already excellent relationship, and opportunities will flow from Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): I working together on the UN Security Council. As the declare an interest in the debate because the headquarters Minister responsible for the UN, I have seen a number of QVC will hopefully move to my constituency in the of small countries join the Security Council as temporary near future. My constituency is also the home of BSkyB, rotating members. If we engage with those countries at so I have an additional interest. On this issue, however, an early stage, we can work with them on a constructive it seems that a group of companies is deciding the one basis—I refer in particular to countries such as Gabon, thing that gives QVC its only competitive advantage Colombia and Lebanon that have sat on the Security and allows it to grow. Council over the past year. We already had a fairly good relationship with those countries, but it is now even Mr Howarth: The hon. Lady made her point effectively better. Working with them at a time of so many global and I will support her argument as my speech develops. challenges meant that we had to sit down together a I have recently received helpful representations from great deal, look at our mutual interests and work together the Interactive Media in Retail Group—IMRG—and on many different international initiatives. the Electronic Retailing Association—ERA Europe. Both During his recent visit to Morocco, the Foreign Secretary organisations support the case I am making today. The spent time discussing the challenges and opportunities issue has a direct effect on QVC, but there is also a wider posed by Friday’s elections at this exciting time with effect. Leaving aside QVC’s 1.1 million active customers, representatives from a range of political parties. The independent commercial broadcasters in the UK form a UK will continue to support Morocco and its people as successful and growing sector that employs 22,000 people. they continue their journey of evolutionary political Some of those broadcasters are now commercially reform. vulnerable due to the unfair and unclear regulatory situation in respect of the Freeview platform. The allocation of Freeview channels is important to the whole of the independent commercial broadcasting industry. According to a communications market report by Ofcom, non-public service broadcasters have a 28% share of the audience in UK multi-channel homes. That is a not insignificant number. Research undertaken by Deloitte shows that members of the Commercial Broadcasters Association—COBA—invested £432 million during 2009 in original UK content. Another survey, 139WH Freeview Channels23 NOVEMBER 2011 Freeview Channels 140WH from 2008, showed that COBA members contributed DMOL—Digital Television Multiplex Operators Ltd— more than £2.2 billion to the UK economy. which manages the Freeview platform and allocates The Government recognise the importance of the channels, is owned and run by the public service sector and are currently undertaking a major review broadcasters BBC, and ITV and Channel 4, as well as that is likely to lead to a new communications Bill. I the infrastructure provider Arqiva. As mentioned previously, welcome the rationale for that legislation, which I that is the equivalent of allowing a major retailer to understand is to bring the UK’s regulatory regime into decide where local independent competitors can site the digital age and to ensure a communications their operations. infrastructure that supports growth and innovation while protecting the public interest and consumer choice. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Further to the intervention by the hon. Member for Brentford COBA told me that and Isleworth (Mary Macleod), is my right hon. Friend “one of COBA’s fundamental principles is to support light touch aware that ITV recently launched its own shopping regulation that benefits the whole market not just a few players.” channel, which adds more force to the argument about That is why handling the allocation of Freeview channels potential unfairness, because DMOL is partly owned is so important. It will signal the Government’s intentions by ITV? Does that not call into question what our hon. on fostering independent dynamic businesses in the Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston communications industry and beyond. (Andrew Miller) mentioned—the level playing field?

Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): Mr Howarth: Absolutely.I am grateful for that supportive My right hon. Friend is making extremely important intervention. I understand that not only has ITV moved points. Although I am not particularly familiar with the into that market and put itself in direct competition channel in question, I certainly believe that all regulation with QVC and any other shopping provider by those should work on the level playing field principle, and in means; it used QVC to pilot the operation of that new the circumstances he has described, it clearly does not. service. That adds force to the point that was made That underlines a view that I have stated for many years earlier. and that I hope the Minister will think about when The national and European trade associations share preparing his broadcasting legislation: Ofcom should my concerns. They said in a submission to me: have a much broader umbrella, covering all digitised “Businesses need certainty as well as fair competition. QVC’s services, so that at least there is a parent body that can business is threatened by the current regulatory uncertainty around deal with anomalies such as the one that my right hon. channel allocation and we call on the government and on Ofcom, Friend describes. to give some clarity so that UK firms, like QVC,” can continue to serve their customers and grow their Mr Howarth: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that businesses. ERA Europe stated: intervention. He is very knowledgeable on these matters, “Our members’ future business in the UK is under threat from particularly on regulatory issues, wearing his hat as a an uncertain regulatory environment regarding channel allocation Select Committee Chair. I hope that the Minister takes on the Freeview platform and we urge the UK government and seriously the point that he made. Ofcom to be more transparent in this most important area.” At the heart of the issue is the ability of the dominant The Minister for Sport and the Olympics (Hugh players to allocate valuable channel numbers to commercial Robertson) indicated assent. competitors without independent adjudication and due process. QVC is currently positioned on Channel 16 on Mr Howarth: The Minister nods; I am pleased about Freeview. I note that my hon. Friend the Member for that. Ellesmere Port and Neston said that he does not use As well as being the largest private sector employer in QVC. If he takes the trouble to tune in to Channel 16, my constituency, QVC employs more than 500 highly he might find some very useful bargains, but I will leave skilled people in Battersea. As the hon. Member for that up to him. He should remember that when he does Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod) said, the intention so, he will be supporting jobs in Knowsley. is to move to Chiswick Park in 2012. Therefore, this The issue is very important. Ofcom said in relation to issue does not affect just my constituency. The objective DMOL that must be a fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory system “any regulatory issues would require consideration under the for channel allocation, so that independent commercial relevant multiplex licences. Pursuant to the Communications Act broadcasters are not unfairly damaged. its activities are also subject to Ofcom’s concurrent competition law powers under the Competition Act 1998.”—[Official Report, Mike Weatherley (Hove) (Con): I thank the right 14 November 2011; Vol. 535, c. 497W.] hon. Gentleman for initiating the debate. Could he That quote is from a parliamentary written answer from clarify the situation? Is he saying that the allocation of the Minister. channels is driven by a commercial enterprise for its Ofcom was in contact with me directly ahead of the own vested interests, rather than being based on viewing debate. Its briefing sheds more light on the situation. It figures for the likes of QVC, which may therefore be confirms: pushed down the list unfairly, as against those vested “The multiplex operators are subject to regulatory requirements interests, in the allocation of the channels? set out in the relevant multiplex licences, which include provisions to ensure fair and effective competition. Ofcom’s formal role in Mr Howarth: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. relation to DMOL’s listing policy is to” That is exactly the point that I want to make. I will consider “compatibility with our code” on electronic come to it in a moment. programme guides 141WH Freeview Channels23 NOVEMBER 2011 Freeview Channels 142WH

[Mr George Howarth] 4.52 pm

“and consider complaints from interested parties (including DTT”— The Minister for Sport and the Olympics (Hugh Robertson): First, may I say what a pleasure it is to be digital terrestrial television— here under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter? Secondly, I “licensees such as QVC). Pursuant to the Communications Act, thank the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth) DMOL’s activities are also subject to Ofcom’s concurrent competition for securing the debate and for the way he presented his law powers under the Competition Act 1998.” concerns, which I absolutely understand. Thirdly, and in some ways most surprisingly, I apologise for not The problem is that those regulatory powers are in being the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, practice retrospective. They can apply only after the Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for channel changes have been determined. Wantage (Mr Vaizey). I hope that this is the last time I In relation to the electronic programme guide code, have to do so. He is, of course, the Minister for the arts Ofcom informed me that it and the media, but he is away on ministerial business, and on his behalf, I apologise. “has considered from time to time whether it would be appropriate to review the Code, but has concluded on each occasion that there I welcome the opportunity to debate the issues regarding was no pressing need to do so. It is likely that there will be Freeview and the allocation of channels. The debate is communications legislation within the next few years, and the particularly timely, because my Department is considering government has indicated that it is minded to look at EPG the regulation on electronic programme guides as part regulation in this context. We would need to take this into of our communications review. account in considering the appropriate timing for any review of the Code…On behalf of multiplex operators, DMOL has initiated The right hon. Gentleman talked about the importance a detailed review of the DTT listings policies, including the of slots and the high-level listings on EPGs, and how criteria for how different types of channels should be listed in the that might impact on viewing numbers, and therefore EPG. It has completed a first round of consultation, and identified indirectly on businesses, such as those in his constituency the need for a further consultation early next year, following and the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for detailed research it has commissioned into the views of consumers.” Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod). I absolutely Given the likely threat to jobs faced by QVC workers, understand QVC’s position and the possible impact that the statement about there being “no pressing need” is of any decision by Digital Multiplex Operators Ltd may some concern. Saying that the regulation falls within have on that established company. QVC is a great British individual multiplex licences overlooks the fact that company. In 18 years, it has revolutionised home shopping with the exception of the utility Arqiva, the multiplex in the UK and grown to have about 1,500 employees in operators are also dominant channel operators and the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency and at least indirect competitors of independent broadcasters. another 500 elsewhere. Fortunately, there is an easy to implement solution, The regulation of EPGs is, as the right hon. Gentleman which I am sure that the Minister will be happy to hear. correctly said, a matter for the independent regulator, DMOL should be regulated in the same way as any Ofcom, and not directly for Ministers. While I have no other broadcast television platform. For example, the powers to intervene in this case, I would like to set out equivalent operation at BSkyB, to which the hon. Member the regulatory framework and what we are considering for Brentford and Isleworth referred and which reaches as part of the communications review. At the outset, I fewer homes, has been regulated since the late 1990s. will give him a straightforward undertaking that I will take back what he has said today and ensure that my That is not an argument for special treatment, merely hon. Friend the Minister, who has responsibility for the one for a level playing field, as my hon. Friend the arts and the media, is aware of his concerns. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston put it, so that independent broadcasters can compete fairly with all Andrew Miller: Will the Minister add another aspect channels, including the public service broadcasters. I to that? While my right hon. Friend the Member for accept that public service channels should have special Knowsley (Mr Howarth) teased me about not being a prominence with preferential channel numbers, but the shopper on QVC, my mother, who often gets into such current policy and practice for allocating logical channel debates, found it to be of invaluable service when she numbers on Freeview unfairly disadvantages independent was at home as a disabled person. A lot of older people commercial broadcasters and disproportionately benefits who are not experts on the internet, although my mother the channels operated by DMOL shareholders. used the internet in her 90s, find television shopping a valuable tool. It would be grossly unfair to put people We all want to ensure that the UK broadcast market such as the disabled at a competitive disadvantage because remains dynamic and successful. Channel allocation on of the competitive advantage of giant broadcasters. Freeview is about economic fairness, business certainty, jobs, encouragement of investment and legal principle. Hugh Robertson: I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman It is also about the importance of a broad and diverse the undertaking that I will ensure that his comments are UK television market. also relayed to my ministerial colleague. In conclusion, I ask the Minister to consider carefully The Communications Act 2003 sets out the fact that the full implications of the current DMOL channel it is Ofcom’s duty to draw up, and from time to time allocation system and its lack of transparency. I am review and revise, a code to give guidance to platform sure that with good will and an understanding of the operators about the provision of EPGs. Ofcom’s code problem, the Government and Ofcom will between of practice on EPGs is non-prescriptive about the order them be able to resolve the situation. In practice, that in which channels are placed, except for the public means asking Ofcom to ensure that DMOL is regulated service broadcasting channels, which include the BBC’s in the same way as other platforms. digital services, channels 3, 4 and 5, and S4C in Wales. 143WH Freeview Channels23 NOVEMBER 2011 Freeview Channels 144WH

Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): I congratulate for how different types of channel should be listed in the right hon. Member for Knowsley on securing the the EPG. It has also commissioned in-depth research debate. The Minister mentioned S4C. There is an exciting on the views of consumers. Once again, I will ensure, prospect that EPG has to provide for local television. through the Department, that the views of the right There is some consideration being given to using channel hon. Gentleman are brought to the attention of DMOL 8 for local television, on which Channel 4 is broadcast as part of that review. in Wales because of the presence of S4C on channel 4 DMOL proposes to launch a consultation in February. on the EPG. Does he recognise that that issue also It is asking for comments on the ordering of channels needs to be considered in the debate? within the general entertainment genre, the creation of a transactional genre, and the ordering and location of Hugh Robertson: Absolutely. While the Government all genres beyond general entertainment. That consultation intend for the local television channel to be channel 8 in will presumably include, among others, the mother of England and Northern Ireland, we are looking at what the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew the appropriate channel is in Wales and Scotland, given Miller). It is therefore essential that everyone with views exactly the issue that my hon. Friend has raised. about the allocation of channels responds to that The right hon. Member for Knowsley is particularly consultation. I strongly encourage the right hon. Member concerned to see that Ofcom’s code requires that other, for Knowsley and his constituents to do exactly that. non-PSB channels are treated on a fair, reasonable and As the right hon. Gentleman does not feel that there non-discriminatory basis. To guard against platform is a level playing field between Freeview and other operators such as Freeview misusing their power in platforms, let me turn briefly to the way Ofcom regulates relation to broadcasters, Ofcom has the power to investigate EPGs with particular reference to Freeview. The platform potential breaches of competition law in the operators decide EPG lists. DMOL is a body formed by communications sector, such as exclusionary agreements the multiplex licensees to co-ordinate the operation of and the abuse of a dominant position. the DTT platform and the organisation of the EPG. In summary, the listing of channels within EPGs is I must stress that EPGs on the DTT platform are determined by individual platforms, exactly as the right regulated by Ofcom, albeit in the circumstances intimated hon. Gentleman said, such as Freeview, Sky, Virgin and by the right hon. Gentleman, in the same way as other Freesat, within the restrictions of Ofcom’s code and platforms. powers. It is not for the Government or Ofcom to The EPG code on DTT applies to the multiplex specify exactly where every channel should be listed. It licensees, rather than to DMOL. That means that in the is important to note that anyone, including the broadcasters event of a complaint against Freeview over its compliance themselves, who is unhappy with how a platform operator with the EPG code, Ofcom would take it up with the has applied the EPG code has recourse to raise that multiplex licensees through DMOL. Ofcom would have with Ofcom as the appropriate regulator. the regulatory power to intervene, just as it could in the event of a complaint about the EPG of any other Mr George Howarth: I am grateful for the helpful platform. In this case, it does not make sense for Ofcom way the Minister is responding to the debate. I would to intervene even before DMOL has held its consultation like to emphasise that the existing powers are retrospective, and reached a final decision on its proposed changes, and that still creates uncertainty. I hope that he will feel which is why I am encouraging the right hon. Gentleman able to address that aspect together with Ofcom. to respond to the forthcoming DMOL consultation with as much evidence as possible. Hugh Robertson rose— As hon. Members will be aware, my Department is undertaking a review of the communications sector. We Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. I remind the are looking at a broad range of areas from television Minister that he has until six minutes past 5. and radio to broadband and spectrum issues. I should stress that the aim of that review is to stimulate growth Hugh Robertson: Thank you for that gentle warning, and create opportunities in the communications sectors, Mr Streeter, and I thank the right hon. Gentleman for and not in any way to dictate or limit the development his comments. I absolutely understand that and I will of markets and technologies in broadcasting or other ensure that his point is fed into the Department’s wider industries. review of the 2003 Act. The importance of EPGs is an area to which we have The right hon. Gentleman’s concerns relate specifically started to give detailed consideration. The Secretary of to Freeview, so I shall discuss the background and the State has reflected that interest: set-up of the Freeview platform. The Freeview service “Position on the EPG will probably be the Government’s single comprises approximately 50 TV channels broadcast on most important lever in protecting our tradition of public service digital terrestrial television, or DTT, and is free to air. broadcasting. We are actively looking at how to make that situation A company called DTV Services Ltd, owned and run, better, if necessary using legislation.”—[Official Report, 8 September as he said, by its shareholders—the BBC, BSkyB, 2011; Vol. 532, c. 543.] Channel 4, ITV and Arqiva—is responsible for the That is absolutely a key area in this review. I should add Freeview brand. that not only are we interested in looking at the issue of DMOL, which is a limited company owned by the the EPG from the perspective of public service broadcasters, digital multiplex operators, was set up in 2007 to co-ordinate but we are aware of the immense value that many of the the functions of the DTT platform. Within its remit is commercial, non-PSB channels bring in providing a responsibility for setting the channel numbers on Freeview. wide range of viewing choices and investing in more The good news is that DMOL has initiated a detailed UK content. We would like to understand more about review of the DTT listings policies, including the criteria the importance that companies place on the EPG. 145WH Freeview Channels23 NOVEMBER 2011 Freeview Channels 146WH

[Hugh Robertson] It is important that interested parties continue to feed in their views. I am pleased that QVC was among those There is some evidence that the position on the EPG that responded to the open letter from the Government can affect the viewing figures of a particular channel, and I encourage it to continue to engage with that and that may have some indirect commercial impact. process as it moves forward. For example, MTV’s slot was moved up 150 channel Let me finish by expressing my thanks to the right places on the Sky platform, from the top of the music hon. Gentleman for his contribution. Although the section to the middle of the third page general entertainment Government do not have a direct role in allocating EPG section. Research published by the media consultancy places, and I do not think that anybody in this Chamber Attentional suggests that the Sky audience for MTV would encourage us so to do, I promise him that I will increased by as much as 150%. take on board what he has said today and ensure that it The communications review is already under way, is fed into the review. I encourage him and his constituents having been kicked off by a letter from the Secretary of to continue to engage with the review as it moves State in June. We have already received more than 160 forward. responses to that letter, many of which touched on the Question put and agreed to. issue of EPG and channel prominence. We are very much in listening mode ahead of the publication of the Green Paper early next year and are grateful for the opportunity to hear some of the issues today. As I said to the right hon. Member for Knowsley, I will ensure 5.5 pm that his contribution is fed into that review. Sitting adjourned. 19WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS

Nothing is more important than keeping children Written Ministerial and young people safe. Today’s action plan is an important step forward but there is a long way to go. I am Statements determined that everything which can be done is done to make our children safer from sexual exploitation. I have placed copies of the action plan in the Libraries Wednesday 23 November 2011 of both Houses.

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE EDUCATION Locarno Group

Tackling Child Sexual Exploitation The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague): I wish to make the House aware that I have decided to convene the first meeting of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education the Locarno Group on 24 November. This advisory (Tim Loughton): The vast majority of children in this group will support and challenge the FCO in its country grow up safe from harm. However, the Barnardo’s consideration of foreign policy. report “Puppet on a string: the urgent need to cut children free from sexual exploitation”, published in When I set out my vision of the future of the Foreign January, emphasised that children are being sexually and Commonwealth Office on 8 September, I emphasised exploited here and now. It showed that this appalling the importance of strengthening the long term capability form of child abuse is more prevalent than most people and international effectiveness of the FCO as an institution have appreciated. at the heart of Government, and improving our country’s capacity to pursue effective foreign policy for the years It is clear that this abuse can be perpetrated by and decades to come. individuals from all sections of society. It can affect I also emphasised the importance of cultivating and boys, girls, older and younger children, from stable and retaining the knowledge and expertise that has made affluent homes as well as from less advantaged backgrounds, the FCO one of the best diplomatic services in the in urban and rural communities. It has a devastating world. The Locarno Group will contribute to this by and lasting impact, both on the children and young drawing on the advice of senior FCO alumni. people who suffer from it and on their families. The group’s discussions will be treated as confidential The Barnardo’s report called for a national action advice. plan to tackle child sexual exploitation. As Minister A copy of the terms of reference (including a list of responsible for children and families, I asked my officials group members) and my speech of 8 September has to lead the development of such an action plan and I been placed in the Library of the House and published am very pleased to be publishing it later today. I am on the FCO website (www.fco.gov.uk). grateful to the many national and local organisations, and other Government Departments, which have contributed to it over the last few months, particularly HEALTH the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the Minister with responsibility for crime and security, Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer the hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Affairs Council Brokenshire) and colleagues in the Home Office. The action plan was developed in the context of the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health Munro review of child protection. Like Professor Eileen (Anne Milton): The Employment, Social Policy, Health Munro’s final report, and the Government’s response to and Consumer Affairs Council will meet on 1-2 December. her review, the action plan emphasises the important The health and consumer affairs part of the Council role of Local Safeguarding Children Boards in ensuring will be taken on 2 December. that local multi-agency arrangements are in place to The presidency is expected to propose the adoption help and protect children and young people. The action of Council conclusions on the following: plan is similarly child-centred, trying to see sexual closing the gap in health between member states through exploitation from the point of view of the child or action on determinants of health, especially nutrition and young person, as he or she goes through the different physical activity; stages which might occur. non-communicable diseases: prevention and control of Child sexual exploitation is horrific and has no place respiratory diseases in children; and in this, or any other, society. It is a serious crime and prevention and control of communication disorders in children, must be treated as such, with the perpetrators pursued including innovative approaches to treatment. more rigorously. We can only tackle it successfully by The United Kingdom supports the adoption of these looking at every aspect of the problem: raising awareness Council conclusions. and understanding; effective prevention and detection; There is also expected to be an exchange of views on securing robust prosecutions; and improving support the Commission’s new public health programme, “Health for victims and their families. The action plan does that, for Growth”, to take effect from 2014-2020. bringing together for the first time actions already being Under any other business, the presidency is likely to taken and actions which will be taken forward in the provide information on the information to patients future. Much work is currently under way and more will legislative package: proposal for a regulation and a take place over the coming months. directive as regards information to the general public on 21WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS medicinal products for human use subject to medical resident in the UK has nevertheless increased substantially prescription and as regards pharmacovigilance. The since 1 January 2007 and that it is likely that removing UK supports the adoption of both of these proposals, the current restrictions would cause inward flows to while recognising the strong opposition from other increase and cause those who currently come to the UK member states towards them. for temporary purposes to seek more permanent In addition, information will be provided from the employment in the UK. In addition, the Committee has presidency on several matters including a proposal for a suggested that the labour market impact of these outcomes regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council would be aggravated by the likelihood that such increased on food intended for infants and young children and on labour market participation by Bulgarian and Romanian food for special medical purposes, on the Senior Level workers in these circumstances would tend to be Group and on the European Innovation Partnership. concentrated in lower-skilled occupations where the The Danish delegation will also give information on the risk of displacement of domestic workers is higher. priorities for their forthcoming presidency, which will The Government have decided that, given their own run from January until July 2012. assessment of the labour market and the MAC’s findings, retaining the current restrictions is a proportionate means of addressing any disturbance or threat. The HOME DEPARTMENT restrictions will therefore continue in their current form until the end of 2013. I am notifying the European Migration (Bulgarian and Romanian Workers) Commission of this decision and I am taking the necessary legislative action to extend the period of application of the current regulations. The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): Iam confirming today that the restrictions currently applied The annual quota for the seasonal agricultural workers’ to Bulgarian and Romanian nationals’ employment in scheme (SAWS) will continue at 21,250 places for 2012 the United Kingdom will continue until the end of 2013. and 2013 and the annual quota for the sectors-based scheme (SBS) will continue at 3,500 places for 2012 and The Government are concerned to ensure that migration 2013. to the UK does not have adverse impacts on the employment opportunities of the domestic labour force Under European law, the current restrictions cannot at the current time. Because of the uncertainty of any continue beyond the end of 2013 and will therefore be effects, the Government are firmly of the view that lifted at that point. transitional measures are required to mitigate the impacts of labour migration when countries newly accede to the EU. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT The transitional restrictions applied to Bulgarian and Romanian workers have been in force since 1 January 2007. Burma They restrict Bulgarian and Romanian nationals to employment that is either skilled or is in sectors where there continues to be a shortage of labour, and have The Secretary of State for International Development therefore helped to ensure that migration from those (Mr Andrew Mitchell): I visited Burma for three days countries delivers economic benefits to the UK. from 15 to 17 November, the first visit by a senior Under paragraph 5 of annexes VI and VII of the Minister from the European Union since a ban on treaty concerning the accession of Bulgaria and Romania high-level engagement was suspended in April 2011. In to the EU, the UK may extend these restrictions to the the capital, Naypyidaw, I met President Thein Sein, end of 2013 where there is a serious disturbance to its Vice-President Tin Aung Myint Oo, the Speaker of the labour market or threat thereof. We have approached Lower House Shwe Mann, and the Ministers for Industry, the question of whether there is such a disturbance, or Railways, Border Affairs and Health. In Mandalay I the risk of one, carefully. Economic events of recent visited development projects funded by Britain. In Rangoon years have inevitably impacted upon labour market I spent most of a day with Aung San Suu Kyi including conditions in the UK but the labour market has visiting a school run by her party, the National League demonstrated a high degree of resilience, particularly in for Democracy, and I met representatives of ethnic terms of levels of employment, during and since the groups, other political parties, activists, civil society recession. However, labour market conditions, and the groups, and the recently freed political prisoner Zarganar. extent to which they are affected by migration, are very I was accompanied throughout by British journalists. uncertain in the current economic circumstances. Speaking to members of the Burmese Government, I It is against that background that I have sought both welcomed the progress that the Government have advice from the independent Migration Advisory recently made towards political reform and strongly Committee on the labour market grounds for extending urged that the momentum of reform be maintained. In the restrictions. The MAC’s findings, published on particular I pressed for: 4 November, are that, on the basis of the indicators of a full release of political prisoners, including 1988 generation labour market performance which it has used, the UK leader Min Ko Naing; labour market is currently in a state of serious disturbance continued progress in the dialogue with Aung San Suu Kyi; and that lifting the current restrictions at this stage free and fair by-elections, due to be held in the next two would risk negative impacts on the labour market. months; In particular, the Committee has concluded that while urgent moves towards a resolution to the ethnic conflicts; migration flows from Bulgaria and Romania have been and relatively low, the number of Bulgarians and Romanians improved humanitarian access in border areas. 23WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS

I made it clear that Britain would support a very year is the most relevant. Central Government Departments significant positive international response if the reform are now publishing any transactions over £500 on their process continued. websites, starting with 2011-12 quarter 1 (April-June) The President and his Ministers assured me that the data and thereafter on a monthly basis. The cost of reforms would continue, but gave no clear time frame work required to obtain, contextualise and report data and argued that considerations about stability were for previous years would exceed the cost limits of a stalling the release of more political prisoners. The freedom of information request or a parliamentary President however emphasised the importance of the question. dialogue with Aung San Suu Kyi, and expressed his For purposes of transparency, the Department for hope that she and the National League for Democracy Transport now lists GPC spend (http://data.gov.uk/ would run in the by-elections—they have since confirmed dataset/dft-gpc-spend) on its website. This includes details that they will. Burmese Ministers confirmed that they of spend by the British Transport police. had opened channels of communication with armed ethnic groups. I noted that the international community was watching closely for successful outcomes on these Civil Aviation Bill issues. Aung San Suu Kyi expressed her gratitude for Britain’s unwavering support for democracy, development and The Secretary of State for Transport (Justine Greening): human rights in Burma. She stressed the need to maintain The publication of the draft Civil Aviation Bill today pressure for the full release of political prisoners, marks an important step in this Government’s desire to strengthened rule of law in Burma including the put passengers at the heart of airport operations. The independence of the judiciary, and progress on negotiations proposals are designed to modernise key elements of with the ethnic groups. Aung San Suu Kyi set out her the regulatory framework for civil aviation in the UK, priorities for development and poverty reduction in to enable the sector to increase its contribution to Burma, focussing on education, health, widening the economic growth without compromising high standards. availability of small scale finance to poor families, and improving child nutrition. She underlined the importance Much of our aviation regulation is governed by 1980s of improving living conditions equally across Burma, legislation and needs to be updated. This draft Bill including in ethnic areas. offers a package of reforms to make both regulation and the sanctions which support it flexible, proportionate, During the visit I set out the results that British aid targeted and effective. It proposes removing unnecessary would deliver for the Burmese people over the next four regulation and unnecessary intervention by central years: Government. It devolves more responsibility to the ensuring that more than 127,000 mothers give birth more independent specialist regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority safely; (CAA), while ensuring that the CAA is accountable and preventing more than 150,000 unintended pregnancies; weighs the costs and benefits of its decisions. The draft helping more than 1.8 million people with bed nets to help Bill proposes that certain costs of regulating aviation avoid malaria; should be moved from general taxation to the aviation diagnosis and treatment to reduce drug-resistant malaria; industry. supporting 277,000 children through primary school; Above all the draft Bill puts the consumer first. In the providing 110,000 women with access to affordable credit; economic regulation of airports with substantial market helping 92,000 women and men produce more food. power the CAA’s primary duty will be to consumers; I also highlighted the prospect of further British help that is passengers and owners of cargo now and in the in the future if the reform process is maintained, for future. In addition, the Bill gives the CAA a role in example to encourage wealth creation and to help to promoting better public information about airline and improve Government accountability, service delivery airport performance and about the environmental effects and the rule of law. of aviation and measures taken to mitigate adverse effects. Aviation enables people to travel for business, leisure and to visit friends and family; and it enables the rapid TRANSPORT movement of goods to and from markets overseas. The Government want to see a successful and competitive Parliamentary Written Question (Correction) aviation industry. We are taking forward the work of the South East Airports Taskforce to improve our major airports within the constraints of existing runways. In The Minister of State, Department for Transport the longer term, we have committed to producing a (Mrs Theresa Villiers): I regret to inform the House that sustainable framework for UK aviation by 2013 which there was an inaccuracy in the answer I gave to supports economic growth and addresses aviation’s parliamentary question 71220 on 13 September, Official environmental impacts. Report, column 1072W, about information held for The draft Bill complements these policies. It is in each individual transaction undertaken by British Transport three parts: police using the Government Procurement Card in reforming the framework for airport economic regulation, (i) 2008-09 and (ii) 2009-10. following my predecessor’s statements to the House on The correct answer is that this Government are 3 March 2011 and 21 July 2010. committed to transparency and we believe the information modernising the framework and functions of the aviation regarding Government Procurement Cards for this financial regulator, the CAA. Some of these measures stem from the 25WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 26WS

independent strategic review of the CAA by Sir Joseph We are also of the view that the report is right to Pilling in 2008 and a consultation launched by the previous recognise a new party funding settlement must include Government in 2009. genuine reform in respect of trade union donations. transferring certain operational aviation security functions to the CAA as part of wider work to improve aviation Reform remains a priority and is best achieved as far security regulation and deliver savings to general taxation. as possible by consensus. To that end we plan to continue This proposal, mentioned in the July 2011 consultation cross-party discussions based on the principles identified document “Better Regulation for Aviation Security”, would by the Committee and the Government’s reform create a single regulator for aviation safety and security. The commitments. Secretary of State would remain responsible for aviation security policy and issuing aviation security directions to the industry. The Government have previously announced that legislation to implement airport economic regulation BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS reforms would be introduced early in the next parliamentary session. An opportunity has now arisen to introduce a Civil Aviation Bill into Parliament near the beginning of 2012. This would help ensure that the CAA does not Employment Law Review have to set airport price controls for the five-year period 2014-19 under the existing system. I therefore intend to take up this opportunity. I still wish however to publish The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the draft Bill today to provide an opportunity, even Skills (Vince Cable): The Government believe the UK though the time available is shorter than previously economy should be supported by a framework of laws envisaged, for the Transport Committee and stakeholders that ensures we have a strong and efficient labour market to consider the proposals before they are introduced which is flexible, effective and fair. Today the Government into Parliament. are announcing a series of measures following outcomes It is possible that the scope of the Bill may be from our employment law review process. extended before it is introduced. One area which could be included is the reform of the Air Travel Organisers’ Employment Tribunal Reform Licence (ATOL), following the recently finished consultation Today the Government have launched their response on measures to protect consumers better in the 21st century to the Resolving Workplace Disputes consultation and holiday market and help create a more level regulatory announced that we are commissioning a fundamental playing field for businesses. review of the current rules of procedure for employment tribunals1. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER The publication of our response to the Resolving Workplace Disputes consultation is a significant milestone Committee on Standards in Public Life (13th Report) in our wider review of employment law. We believe the measures set out in our response today will deliver a more streamlined and efficient employment tribunal The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg): The system, provide both employers and employees with Government are grateful for the Committee on Standards greater access to methods of early dispute resolution in Public Life report which was published yesterday, and support growth by giving employers more confidence and will study it carefully. to take on new workers. Some key principles can be drawn from the report. The legislative measures outlined in our package will Properly funded, vibrant political parties are vital to a be taken forward when parliamentary time permits. healthy democracy and a key part of the UK’s constitutional On behalf of the Government, I have asked Mr Justice framework. The amount any one individual, organisation Underhill, the outgoing president of the Employment or institution can give in political donations should be Appeal Tribunal, to lead a fundamental review of the limited. Fairness between parties with different types of rules of procedure for employment tribunals. A “working funding is crucial. So too is fairness for the taxpayer. group”, chaired by Mr Justice Underhill, will undertake Like the Committee, the Government accept that the the review itself and report back to Ministers with state has some role to play in ensuring these principles recommendations. It is our intention that the review apply in reality. will develop and recommend a revised procedural code, The Government believe that the case cannot be with a view to ensuring that robust case-management made for greater state funding of political parties at a powers can be applied flexibly and proportionately in time when budgets are being squeezed and economic individual cases coming before employment tribunals. recovery remains the highest priority. But there is a case for looking carefully at whether existing levels of support The review will commence in November 2011 and could be used more effectively. will run for six months. The working party will be invited to provide recommendations by the end of April We remain committed to limiting donations and 2012. reforming party funding. So the Government accept in principle the Committee’s recommendation that donations Dismissal to political parties should be capped. But the level of a We are going to be seeking views on a proposal to cap will need to be considered with reference to other introduce compensated no-fault dismissal for micro-firms elements of a reform package, in particular the impact with fewer than 10 employees. We will also look at ways on the ability of parties to continue to raise sufficient to slim down existing dismissal processes, which can be, funds and the absence of any additional support from and are often perceived to be, lengthy and unfair to the state. both employers and employees. We will therefore seek 27WS Written Ministerial Statements23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 28WS views on how we might simplify them, including potentially gold-plate European rules. Therefore, today I am launching working with ACAS to make changes to their code, or a second call for evidence on the effectiveness of the supplementary guidance for small businesses. Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) TUPE and Collective Redundancies Regulations 2006 in protecting employees’ rights and smoothing the process of business restructuring. This is The Government are also looking at the current rules a complex area of legislation and it is important we on consultation in collective redundancy situations. Today gather evidence from a wide range of stakeholders in I am launching a call for evidence on the experience of considering the case for change. employers and employees in collective redundancies. The call for evidence will seek to identify where changes, Copies of the Resolving Workplace Disputes if they are thought necessary, could be made that will Government response document, the Fundamental Review help improve the ability of businesses to restructure, Terms of Reference and both calls for evidence have while ensuring that employees have access to support in been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. finding alternative training or employment opportunities. Some businesses have raised concerns that the current 1 The existing procedural rules for employment tribunals TUPE arrangements are overly bureaucratic and may are contained in schedule 1 of the Employment Tribunal in some areas, such as service provision, unnecessarily (Constitution and Rules of Procedure) Regulations 2004.

357W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 358W

It is not possible to break down these figures specifically for Written Answers to those non-resident parents who have failed to pay maintenance for children residing in the London Borough of Bexley. Questions The following table shows the number of suspended committal sentences and committal sentences from April 2007 to March 2011 rounded to the nearest 5. These figures can be found on page 23 of Wednesday 23 November 2011 the following link: http://www.childmaintenance.org/en/pdf/qss/ QSS_sept_2011.pdf

JUSTICE April to March Suspended each year committal sentences Committal sentences Coroners and Justice Act 2009 2007-08 480 25

Mr Doran: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2008-09 580 45 when he plans to bring the provisions of section 50 of 2009-10 760 45 the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 into force. [82199] 2010-11 1,010 40 Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice is liaising with the Ministry of Defence, Scottish Government and Crown I hope you find this answer helpful. Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in order to facilitate the implementation of the Coroners and Justice Act’s Contempt of Court: Sentencing provisions to allow for fatal accident inquiries (FAIs) in Scotland into the deaths abroad of service personnel. John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for Subject to the outcome of the Public Bodies Bill, we Justice how many people have been imprisoned for plan to implement the Coroners and Justice Act’s FAI contempt of court in each of the last 10 years by each provisions as soon as practicable in 2012 in parallel with of the divisions of the courts. [81867] the Act’s provisions to improve coroner investigations in England and Wales. Mr Blunt: Detailed information collected centrally from court records by the Ministry of Justice on contempt Children: Maintenance of court beyond 2008 is limited to those occasions where an individual is tried, convicted and sentenced at Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the Crown Court under sections 8 and 14 of the Contempt how many non-resident parents living in the London of Court Act 1981. Information on contempt of court borough of Bexley have received (a) suspended and at the magistrates court under the Contempt of Court (b) custodial sentences for the non-payment of child Act is contained within a miscellaneous group of offences maintenance in the last three years. [80312] that cannot be separately analysed. The following tables provide information on prison Maria Miller: I have been asked to reply. receptions for contempt of court from 1998 to 2008 The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission (last available published), and defendants sentenced to is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have immediate custody at the Crown Court under sections 8 asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner to write to and 14 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981 from 2009 the hon. Member with the information requested and I and 2010 in England and Wales. have seen the response. Table 1: Prison receptions for contempt of court from 1998 to 2008 Letter from Noel Shanahan: (England and Wales) In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Number of persons Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary 1998 588 of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner. 1999 586 You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how 2000 539 many non-resident parents living in the London Borough of 2001 442 Bexley have received (a) suspended and (b) custodial sentences for 2002 442 the non-payment of child maintenance in the last three years. 2003 426 [80312] 2004 435 Where a non-resident parent fails to pay maintenance, there 2005 384 are a number of enforcement actions available. Money can be 2006 392 taken directly from a non-resident parent’s earnings if the non-resident parent is employed, money can be taken directly from a non-resident 2007 297 parent’s bank or building society account, or action can be taken 2008 168 through the courts. Table 2: Defendants sentenced to immediate custody at the Crown The most serious forms of enforcement are commitment to Court under sections 8 and 14 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981, prison or disqualification from driving. The decision whether to England and Wales, 2009-10 implement, and the length of the order, is at the discretion of a 2009 2010 Magistrates’ Court (or Sheriff in Scotland) where they are satisfied that a non-resident parent has “wilfully refused or culpably Contempt of S 12(1)(a) & 14 Wilfully insult a 12 19 neglected” to pay child maintenance—but this is not a criminal Court Act Justice/Justices/witness/officer of sanction. 1981 the court/solicitor/counsel 359W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 360W

1. The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to (2) what assessment his Department has made of the persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for effects of section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest on the conviction rate for people charged with improper penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or use of (a) public electronic communications networks more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the and (b) social networking sites; [82031] statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2. Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are (3) what assessment he has made of the operation of accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these section 127(3) of the Communications Act 2003; and data have been extracted from large administrative data systems how many proceedings have been brought under this generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care section of the Act since its implementation. [82033] should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Mr Blunt: Defendants proceeded against at the Source: magistrates court and found guilty at all courts, and the Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. conviction ratio for offences under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 in England and Wales from Crime: Victims 2006 to 2010, can be viewed in the table. Data held centrally on the Ministry of Justice Court Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Proceedings Database does not include information whether he plans to commission research into victims’ about the circumstances behind each case, other than satisfaction levels with sentences handed down by that which may be identified from a statute. It is not courts. [82116] possible to separately identify those specific cases where the defendant was proceeded against for using a social Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice previously networking site. commissioned the Witness and Victim Experience Survey, The Ministry of Justice has not made an assessment which asked a subset of victims and witnesses about on the conviction ratio under section 127 of the their experiences, perceptions and satisfaction with different Communications Act 2003, as the effective working of aspects of the criminal justice system, including (for the Communications Act 2003 comes within the remit those whose cases resulted in convictions) whether they of the Department for Culture Media and Sport. thought the sentence was fair. A Ministry of Justice Number of defendants proceeded against at magistrates courts and research report summarising the main findings from the found guilty at all courts and the conviction ratio(%)1, under Witness and Victim Experience Survey 2009-10, and section 127 of the Communications Act 20032, England and Wales, examining the factors associated with satisfaction, will 2006-103, 4 be published in 2012. 2006 2007 20085 2009 2010 In addition, the Ministry of Justice partially funds Proceeded 550 680 872 1,126 1,511 the British Crime Survey (BCS), which gathers information against on the public’s perceptions of and victims’ satisfaction Found 377 498 693 873 1,186 with various aspects of the criminal justice system, guilty including confidence and attitudes to sentencing. The Conviction 69 73 79 78 78 BCS 2010-11 findings show that 39% of victims were ratio % confident that the criminal justice system is effective 1 The proportion of defendants proceeded against who were found (compared with 44% of non-victims) and 56% of victims guilty. 2 Includes offence: were confident that the criminal justice system is fair Communications Act 2003 under section 127 (compared with 63% of non-victims). Sending or causing sending of grossly offensive/indecent/obscene/menacing The Ministry of Justice has previously published or false message/matter by electronic communications network. 3 BCS analysis which covered public attitudes to sentencing The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they and the victim satisfaction with the police and CJS were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or agencies. The report ‘Public confidence in the Criminal more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is Justice System: findings from the British Crime Survey imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more 2002/03 to 2007/08’ can be found at: offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/research-and-analysis/ 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate moj/public-confidence-cjs.htm and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have The Ministry of Justice reviews its research priorities been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by regularly. We are currently considering whether to the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are commission further examination of the BCS data on taken into account when those data are used. perceptions of sentencing. A final decision whether to 5 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and proceed with this will be made in the context of wider August 2008. research needs, relative priorities and the available budget. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice.

Cybercrime: Prosecutions Offenders: Deportation

Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Justice (1) what assessment his Department has made for Justice how many foreign prisoners held at HMP of the conviction rate for those charged for improper Peterborough are due for removal from the UK at the use of (a) public electronic communications networks conclusion of their sentence in the next 12 months; and and (b) social networking sites; [82030] if he will make a statement. [80987] 361W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 362W

Mr Blunt: As at 30 September 2011 there were 92 male Mr Blunt: The information is as follows. and 45 female foreign national prisoners detained in Total food costs—for each public sector prison establishment in HMP Peterborough. Information on how many are due England and Wales for removal from the UK at the conclusion of their £ sentence is not held centrally by the Ministry of Justice. 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 However, UKBA report that they are currently considering for deportation 33 foreign nationals in HMP Peterborough Acklington 397,772 432,488 443,335 498,371 504,225 Ashwell 274,767 353,351 395,638 381,808 364,254 These figures have been drawn from administrative Askham Grange 68,054 76,862 76,663 73,608 64,770 IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Aylesbury 198,564 207,023 209,420 208,373 245,752 system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Bedford 249,060 308,183 324,324 334,142 349,296 and processing. Belmarsh 468,094 553,735 544,446 693,064 639,004 Birmingham 516,434 555,325 632,359 776,416 967,956 Prisoners: Death Blakenhurst1 ————— Hewell Grange 84,625 94,875 96,313 87,926 100,413 Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Brockhill2 77,167 101,610 101,194 94,703 103,026 Justice how many prisoners have died from each cause Blantyre House 56,997 63,348 68,231 60,862 62,439 in prison in each of the last five years. [82252] Blundeston 217,329 269,380 270,158 348,707 345,408 Brinsford 244,087 289,132 294,674 284,986 288,353 Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management Service Bristol 269,570 355,009 326,914 328,211 345,419 uses a classification system based on the apparent cause Brixton 394,682 441,663 437,575 475,151 472,235 of death. The actual cause of death is not confirmed Buckley Hall ————— until the conclusion of the coroner’s inquest which is Bullingdon ————— held into all deaths in custody. The classification of Bullwood Hall 99,554 126,933 132,965 140,303 143,399 death may change following an inquest or as new Bure3 ————— information emerges. The information is contained in Canterbury 146,471 210,885 223,003 223,488 235,649 the following table: Cardiff 323,584 381,551 374,100 407,903 446,644 Castington 156,782 223,693 232,222 225,342 255,088 Males and Channings Wood 329,762 350,392 340,765 385,433 413,661 females 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Chelmsford 240,615 376,408 345,313 449,395 464,714 Coldingley 189,248 247,793 249,103 276,425 285,976 All causes 153 185 165 169 196 Dartmoor 320,549 326,496 361,770 381,382 405,887 1 Homicide 0 2 3 0 1 Deerbolt 242,831 259,033 290,883 282,042 319,851 1 Natural 83 90 98 105 124 Dorchester 117,443 133,356 150,317 152,758 155,114 causes Dover 146,565 141,568 139,993 226,666 218,009 Other 313315 non- Downview 192,734 131,071 146,067 159,005 168,797 natural Drake Hall 97,805 131,383 173,936 192,096 178,060 Self- 67 92 61 61 158 Durham 478,839 540,007 519,372 483,168 494,220 inflicted East Sutton Park 42,661 61,585 71,614 74,388 76,715 Unclassified — — — — 28 Eastwood Park 193,021 211,201 206,855 205,433 213,126 1 Provisional. The figures are derived from the National Offender Elmley (includes 724,085 801,332 837,936 967,922 998,689 Management Service (NOMS) Deaths in Prison Custody database. Standford Hill)4 2 In 2010, a new category of unclassified was introduced. Swaleside4 382,026 440,847 468,176 454,841 460,363 Note: Erlestoke 177,606 187,226 226,669 274,999 300,452 The apparent cause of death is based on the NOMS classification of deaths in prison custody; the self-inflicted deaths category includes a Everthorpe 251,510 288,070 248,468 311,354 313,184 wider range of deaths than suicides and the homicide category Exeter 214,407 266,462 286,898 317,483 368,901 includes a wider range of deaths than murder. When comparing these Featherstone 307,948 375,798 381,356 353,842 378,468 figures with other published data it is important to determine what Feltham 424,329 453,025 589,190 762,472 723,302 definitions are used. Ford 184,839 255,779 312,909 373,048 368,006 Since the beginning of 2010, there has been an apparent Foston Hall 89,249 124,488 126,691 146,842 141,303 increase in the number of deaths in custody where Frankland 335,714 493,995 467,318 481,341 433,334 initially the cause of death is unknown and may be Full Sutton 366,607 433,613 410,061 377,705 386,984 subject to further investigation by the coroner such as post mortem or toxicology tests and inquest and also Garth 360,610 385,985 400,771 379,164 396,328 the Prison and Probation Ombudsman’s investigation. Gartree 230,156 239,312 234,976 255,221 313,647 Glen Parva 424,459 533,061 584,201 556,560 525,080 This resulted in a new category of “unclassified deaths” Gloucester 179,029 214,118 226,645 210,990 205,774 being introduced to reflect cases where the cause of Grendon/Spring 261,698 293,645 319,794 365,541 344,525 death cannot be immediately established and are subject Hill to longer investigation. Upon receipt of the cause of Guys Marsh 306,519 347,136 369,627 396,431 391,273 death the classification is then updated. Haslar 83,314 114,708 92,952 72,688 78,996 Haverigg 240,636 319,618 324,026 350,960 354,680 Prisoners: Food High Down 379,857 481,039 512,452 504,814 546,490 Highpoint 469,881 532,459 445,635 756,197 683,872 (Includes Edmunds Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Hill to 2007) Justice how much was spent annually on food and Edmunds Hill5 ————— subsistence for prisoners in each prison in each of the Hindley 242,508 318,809 335,283 372,002 330,853 last 10 years. [81916] 363W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 364W

Total food costs—for each public sector prison establishment in Total food costs—for each public sector prison establishment in England and Wales England and Wales £ £ 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05

Hollesley Bay 175,607 199,170 251,425 300,039 325,041 Weare8 203,312 222,034 246,366 244,330 257,949 (includes Warren Hill) Wellingborough 314,896 401,749 386,755 371,388 394,829 Holloway 280,243 306,701 313,181 311,795 399,459 Werrington 68,712 81,952 103,048 89,875 96,355 Holme House —————Wetherby 195,760 270,723 266,064 233,676 235,979 Hull 320,004 420,911 530,094 723,147 699,072 Whatton 130,223 160,055 150,293 207,268 207,910 Huntercombe 220,198 309,402 315,881 341,854 423,960 Whitemoor 240,140 264,623 266,993 270,486 274,173 Kennet3 —————Winchester 308,727 362,330 384,072 420,737 478,778 Kingston 96,642 111,229 124,521 129,985 105,210 Woodhill ————— Kirkham 328,414 367,361 380,253 424,606 355,565 Wormwood Scrubs 499,687 783,746 851,375 927,195 907,351 Kirklevington 91,291 90,772 96,073 124,064 132,511 Wymott 423,005 478,720 511,242 537,471 655,463 Lancaster Castle 93,312 148,127 136,948 141,735 136,506 Lancaster Farms ————— Total per year 33,900,093 40,012,896 41,848,039 44,641,058 43,280,288 Latchmere House 75,859 80,921 93,983 104,367 90,307 Leeds 719,211 796,859 646,150 721,024 678,304 £ Leicester 205,317 270,312 266,652 250,685 249,542 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Lewes 233,258 287,425 363,904 369,434 402,708 Leyhill 184,884 209,535 236,090 242,104 284,797 Acklington 538,168 541,125 644,971 710,701 724,606 Lincoln 230,026 341,294 291,239 253,520 271,998 Ashwell 388,011 342,599 382,066 499,984 149,586 Lindholme 327,101 498,718 568,620 516,017 496,290 Askham Grange 62,692 66,153 70,080 88,602 85,479 Littlehey 318,973 315,511 338,099 364,915 390,752 Aylesbury 297,707 371,228 416,044 373,500 326,084 Liverpool 685,878 854,666 927,919 1,010,331 929,399 Bedford 361,087 379,457 356,710 428,593 368,787 Long Lartin 284,632 302,918 390,050 295,054 308,188 Belmarsh 740,683 845,432 728,158 856,604 754,646 Low Newton 138,336 176,154 180,989 194,149 204,905 Birmingham 987,468 1,015,702 1,057,897 1,197,414 1,162,216 Maidstone 304,117 230,995 321,573 348,381 339,869 Blakenhurst1 712,034 759,739 802,665 — — Manchester 770,064 857,171 868,002 898,208 786,774 Hewell Grange 135,910 160,295 237,447 1,139,479 1,013,615 Moorland (Closed) 394,644 581,161 554,554 585,907 614,919 Brockhill2 87,742 90,250 — — — 6 Moorland (Open) 75,399 92,639 26,175 25,671 — Blantyre House 66,909 72,717 76,968 100,229 93,245 Morton Hall 64,133 108,415 152,321 217,147 232,060 Blundeston 339,215 360,547 382,894 452,518 399,409 Mount 393,708 429,038 447,344 461,778 450,090 Brinsford 321,877 360,551 334,663 467,770 426,768 New Hall 186,516 268,644 264,584 277,043 273,232 Bristol 398,839 418,419 442,364 486,557 478,420 North Sea Camp 110,155 118,896 157,231 174,535 184,658 Brixton 478,962 503,258 512,117 550,076 493,444 Northallerton 114,263 127,193 127,014 139,455 129,754 Buckley Hall 229,798 367,311 337,066 380,292 302,438 Norwich 361,315 431,555 437,097 415,263 425,872 Bullingdon 593,342 631,790 638,803 748,497 854,081 Nottingham 241,923 365,592 347,511 327,442 309,829 Bullwood Hall 112,705 118,760 146,650 171,331 160,326 Onley 331,949 429,753 428,802 404,287 440,261 Bure3 ————59,294 Parkhurst 510,933 752,875 939,035 974,421 1,073,159 Canterbury 218,655 233,990 227,571 264,278 236,852 (Includes Camp Hill, Albany)7 Cardiff 482,674 485,566 491,154 474,441 548,869 Pentonville 608,394 744,260 714,836 759,006 772,115 Castington 276,609 288,011 342,723 336,942 320,247 Portland 298,455 307,531 306,421 292,920 335,071 Channings Wood 412,824 398,835 525,764 548,454 564,327 Preston 292,246 332,376 408,767 509,666 461,721 Chelmsford 456,466 440,552 579,052 587,071 529,392 Ranby 373,088 460,277 496,156 571,391 579,826 Coldingley 296,047 311,969 344,098 359,054 389,165 Reading —————Dartmoor 419,327 424,356 449,484 525,105 454,563 Risley 438,074 497,207 582,199 717,018 698,681 Deerbolt 282,499 295,430 384,172 390,857 427,523 Rochester (includes 279,792 272,645 268,637 292,490 485,007 Dorchester 161,255 188,634 180,633 184,257 203,829 Cookham Wood) Dover 217,568 225,883 265,942 299,114 264,424 Send 117,625 140,537 142,753 155,440 177,362 Downview 230,501 265,248 262,295 282,838 279,102 Shepton Mallet 87,361 100,303 114,674 112,822 122,508 Drake Hall 186,705 237,362 213,543 221,182 192,447 Shrewsbury 162,489 189,926 214,367 211,955 196,244 Durham 529,033 670,754 737,290 768,677 765,958 Stafford 325,019 405,483 404,196 366,362 376,518 East Sutton Park 75,559 53,348 44,304 85,840 78,411 Stocken 329,451 382,591 395,989 407,533 411,094 Eastwood Park 203,335 226,089 246,847 297,517 256,646 Stoke Heath 279,973 348,659 408,012 491,316 503,991 Elmley (includes 1,006,944 972,478 91,416,767 91,631,417 91,723,606 4 Styal 269,379 296,277 311,887 333,788 319,454 Standford Hill) 4 9 9 9 Sudbury 242,118 296,282 310,087 307,089 305,044 Swaleside 475,985 487,933 — — — Swansea 179,313 181,735 230,470 227,062 235,531 Erlestoke 309,654 328,747 336,260 384,894 341,106 Swinfen Hall 171,581 244,567 244,074 205,679 293,268 Everthorpe 413,666 464,171 510,934 524,112 537,938 Thorn Cross 131,676 144,311 144,201 152,634 181,996 Exeter 365,049 383,227 369,145 361,631 383,798 Usk and Prescoed 148,803 170,391 174,977 219,812 243,817 Featherstone 388,442 416,462 524,392 559,294 540,623 Verne 323,086 329,891 329,654 324,617 363,737 Feltham 622,269 643,267 663,167 725,763 615,398 Wakefield 289,641 349,014 339,003 342,931 301,508 Ford 335,961 333,380 399,775 483,587 464,497 Wandsworth 649,646 785,406 904,576 932,165 865,719 Foston Hall 160,964 179,768 210,236 217,678 209,527 Frankland 565,160 519,904 514,223 627,865 638,937 Wayland 321,532 381,193 439,790 493,715 521,735 Full Sutton 418,533 445,989 453,639 515,521 491,186 Wealstun 355,931 388,325 391,235 388,886 502,604 Garth 381,532 448,069 473,910 711,827 645,060 365W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 366W

£ £ 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Gartree 357,922 394,193 534,401 535,703 525,903 Styal 349,313 340,918 324,149 376,590 345,326 Glen Parva 568,945 566,596 692,706 777,744 619,149 Sudbury 313,502 329,868 332,847 408,507 425,364 Gloucester 211,000 228,701 229,774 226,544 232,802 Swansea 262,671 285,451 317,814 337,998 338,925 Grendon/Spring Hill 341,306 226,065 396,120 440,938 401,653 Swinfen Hall 520,333 458,104 528,256 587,570 504,778 Guys Marsh 408,971 421,461 421,410 435,146 467,747 Thorn Cross 170,000 192,154 189,082 228,456 220,863 Haslar 91,127 97,673 88,115 110,246 105,960 Usk and Prescoed 245,419 236,175 263,189 313,821 313,931 Haverigg 361,012 393,698 427,617 545,736 492,250 Verne 356,413 378,865 441,275 421,696 401,401 High Down 540,560 538,752 684,021 961,437 912,255 Wakefield 326,421 450,155 551,809 611,638 604,537 Highpoint (Includes 745,485 874,858 673,748 719,448 723,248 Wandsworth 967,727 1,165,695 1,100,808 1,474,419 1,432,051 Edmunds Hill to Wayland 520,384 552,883 641,244 903,037 747,110 2007) Wealstun 573,712 582,577 627,229 506,164 421,787 Edmunds Hill5 — — 314,136 374,988 290,455 Weare8 50,959 — — — — Hindley 287,159 321,311 350,074 398,010 282,919 Wellingborough 427,375 525,825 560,208 583,900 462,772 Hollesley Bay 325,152 204,650 387,750 518,081 466,746 (includes Warren Werrington 110,401 119,461 129,244 158,966 112,791 Hill) Wetherby 277,294 309,629 301,885 318,682 297,437 Holloway 373,113 385,665 407,272 518,822 413,643 Whatton 216,375 462,184 633,803 703,141 674,069 Holme House 657,690 633,999 807,774 799,855 842,068 Whitemoor 294,902 326,060 340,481 380,468 411,930 Hull 712,178 695,526 713,336 797,121 723,220 Winchester 515,731 498,481 427,913 587,865 618,987 Huntercombe 438,291 387,172 424,502 313,461 266,341 Woodhill 639,442 583,600 607,226 667,992 688,367 Kennet3 — — 166,751 275,220 243,107 Wormwood Scrubs 919,789 861,361 864,170 1,045,236 1,023,310 Kingston 148,265 168,499 154,342 146,547 151,287 Wymott 671,205 723,478 722,965 817,515 834,223 Kirkham 435,304 551,878 478,145 577,924 482,301 Kirklevington 136,886 137,799 187,658 232,485 245,291 Total per year 48,653,445 51,484,146 55,623,979 62,227,660 59,959,424 Lancaster Castle 167,980 205,153 175,647 190,887 184,877 1 Merged with Hewell and Brockhill. Lancaster Farms 446,168 502,938 430,223 425,703 440,173 2 Merged with Hewell Grange to form Hewell Prison. 3 Latchmere House 77,786 83,506 80,226 83,945 75,283 New Establishment. 4 Elmley, Standford Hill and Swaleside merged to form Sheppey Cluster. Leeds 673,646 676,494 742,992 704,492 848,755 5 HMP Edmunds Hill split from Highpoint in 2007. Leicester 246,924 244,356 255,250 294,519 278,621 6 Moorland Open merged with Moorland Closed. 7 Lewes 399,868 410,188 802,838 643,566 561,068 Parkhurst—Renamed Isle of Wight 2008. 8 Prison closed. Leyhill 324,233 301,659 302,142 331,482 366,037 9 Indicates brace. Lincoln 284,162 285,095 401,175 545,956 494,845 Lindholme 480,407 630,576 786,455 989,334 1,077,271 Prisons: Crimes of Violence Littlehey 413,718 422,453 472,482 517,082 521,721 Liverpool 866,640 915,918 1,023,773 1,097,022 1,079,683 Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Long Lartin 320,785 358,783 336,235 372,781 521,061 if he will take steps to improve the support provided in Low Newton 202,911 221,134 245,136 308,410 241,438 the criminal justice system to prison officers who have Maidstone 348,910 393,922 357,424 382,656 474,538 been assaulted by offenders in the course of their duties. Manchester 889,473 890,605 904,255 979,470 997,616 [81946] Moorland (Closed) 642,009 672,194 720,464 755,797 761,533 Moorland (Open)6 —————Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management Service Morton Hall 192,043 219,975 279,765 297,176 266,462 (NOMS) takes the health and safety of its staff very Mount 500,290 527,247 548,683 652,379 579,562 seriously. Safe systems of work, health and safety New Hall 256,200 268,832 333,440 360,521 314,486 assessments, and a violence management information North Sea Camp 184,394 186,650 184,574 212,339 195,435 system are in place across the Prison Service estate to Northallerton 136,665 160,583 179,391 189,134 166,328 ensure that staff work in an environment that is as safe Norwich 437,165 463,134 416,755 429,309 507,605 as possible. While NOMS cannot prevent every incident, Nottingham 365,282 396,661 389,671 397,785 387,278 it takes a zero tolerance approach to assaults of any Onley 412,686 487,355 513,629 551,657 580,563 kind. NOMS is confident that its systems are robust, Parkhurst 1,198,835 1,200,152 1,316,990 1,362,849 1,470,982 and that suitable support and training is given to its (Includes Camp staff. Hill, Albany)7 Pentonville 765,737 732,855 906,530 929,771 976,889 Where staff are affected by violence, NOMS provides Portland 317,639 403,517 400,372 499,480 443,338 access to the Post Incident Care arrangements developed Preston 464,127 555,685 549,529 596,743 609,257 with experience of the operational environment in prisons Ranby 761,116 725,485 807,083 897,180 822,980 and following guidelines produced by the National Institute Reading 197,627 206,292 217,060 235,563 198,165 of Clinical Health (NICE) on the Management of Post Risley 695,090 777,466 850,323 832,540 779,893 Traumatic Stress Disorder. Affected staff have access to Rochester (includes 512,744 542,904 497,030 578,454 711,339 critical incident debriefs, workplace support advisers, Cookham Wood) information on coping strategies, and where appropriate Send 178,010 191,883 196,896 277,651 266,802 counselling services. Shepton Mallet 126,857 130,387 134,214 152,554 123,810 NOMS has completed a review of its violence reduction Shrewsbury 186,371 239,606 223,517 238,865 232,648 strategy which will be published in early 2012. This Stafford 405,301 524,460 476,295 498,210 534,796 looks at good practice and how this can be shared Stocken 457,752 414,846 491,447 712,313 641,916 effectively in the future. In addition, work is in hand Stoke Heath 499,795 527,022 493,939 541,604 500,190 across Government to harmonise contracts for occupational 367W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 368W health and employee assistance programmes across the officers interpret the Scheme (which has been approved civil service. This will ensure economies of scale whilst by Parliament) and take all decisions on individual ensuring that the civil service meets the best in class applications. employee support provided in the private sector. CICA produce internal guidance that helps claims officers take account of all relevant issues in making Prisons: Private Sector decisions. I have asked them to place a copy of their guidance relating to unspent convictions for soliciting Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice for prostitution in the parliamentary Library. what rules govern the recruitment of prison governors The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for by private companies that are interested in bidding to Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member run (a) public sector prisons and (b) a prison at which for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), does not provide guidance the individual was previously governor. [81993] notes to First-tier Tribunal members because the judiciary are entirely independent of the Government. Mr Blunt: The Business Appointment Rules, set out Rape: Criminal Injuries Compensation in the Civil Service Management Code, place requirements on all serving civil servants, and on former civil servants for two years after their last day of service, who intend Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for to take an outside appointment or employment after Justice what guidance has been given to (a) Criminal leaving the civil service. Before accepting any new Injuries Compensation Authority case officers and (b) appointment or employment, they must consider whether members of the First-tier Tribunal (Social Entitlement the rules require them to apply for approval. Serving Chamber) since the Stern review into how rape complaints prison governors, and ones who left the civil service up are handled by public authorities in England and Wales to two years previously, would be required to apply if to ensure that applicants in rape cases are not disadvantaged their circumstances met one or more of the criteria set by Rules 13(1)a and b of the Scheme; and if he will out in the rules. Applications from individuals at the place a copy in the Library. [82225] level of prison governor are considered by the Department. Mr Djanogly: Responsibility for the day-to-day The rules would apply equally in all cases; including administration of the Criminal Injuries Compensation where a current or former prison governor was seeking Scheme (the Scheme) lies with CICA. Their claims employment, with a private company, to manage a officers interpret the Scheme (which has been approved former public sector prison establishment, and including by Parliament) and take all decisions on individual where the individual had previously been the governor applications. of that establishment. The nature of the prospective appointment would, however, be taken into account CICA produce internal guidance that helps claims when determining whether any conditions should be officers take account of all relevant issues in making placed on the approval of the application. decisions. I have asked CICA to place a copy of their internal Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice policy guidance on relevant paragraphs in the parliamentary what arrangements govern the employment of former Library. CICA have updated this guidance since the employees of his Department and its associated Stem review, most recently on 2 June 2011. agencies by private sector companies that deliver justice The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for services on behalf of the public sector. [81994] Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), does not provide training or Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Business Appointment Rules, guidance notes to First-tier Tribunal members because set out in the Civil Service Management Code, place the judiciary are entirely independent of the Government. requirements on all serving civil servants, and on former The tribunal is drawn from a judicial panel appointed civil servants for two years after their last day of service, by the Lord Chancellor and makes its decision based on who intend to take an outside appointment or employment the law. after leaving the civil service. Before accepting any new appointment or employment, they must consider whether Sexual Offences: Criminal Injuries Compensation the rules require them to apply for approval. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Prostitution: Criminal Injuries Compensation Justice what consideration is given to any particular difficulties which may be experienced by rape and adult sexual assault victims in (a) reporting offences to the Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for police and (b) giving evidence in court when applying Justice what guidance he provides to (a) Criminal the criteria which are set out in paragraphs 17, 18, 19 Injuries Compensation Authority case officers and (b) and 20 of the guidance for applications to the Criminal members of the First-tier Tribunal on dealing with Injuries Compensation Authority. [81834] unspent convictions for soliciting for prostitution in connection with Rule 13(e) of the Criminal Injuries Mr Djanogly: CICA compensate blameless victims of Compensation Scheme; and if he will place in the violent crime according to the rules Parliament set out Library a copy of the guidance. [82174] in the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme (the Scheme). The paragraphs you refer to are in CICA’s Mr Djanogly: Responsibility for the day-to-day guide to the compensation scheme, which CICA produces administration of the Criminal Injuries Compensation in order to help members of the public apply for Scheme (the Scheme) lies with CICA. Their claims compensation. They explain how CICA applies paragraphs 369W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 370W

13 (1) (a) and 13 (1) (b) of the Scheme. I have today WORK AND PENSIONS placed a copy of CICA’s internal guidance on these Scheme paragraphs in the parliamentary Library in response to question 82225. Children: Poverty

Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Justice what specific training is provided to Criminal and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number Injuries Compensation Authority and First Tier Tribunal of children living in poverty in each council ward in personnel dealing with rape and sexual assault claimants; Warrington North constituency. [81728] and if he will place in the Library a copy of any relevant training documentation. [81837] Maria Miller: Estimates of the number and proportion Mr Djanogly: CICA staff receive guidance to support of children living in poverty are published in the Households them in handling all claims, including claims by victims Below Average Income (HBAI) series. HBAI uses of sexual assault, quickly, fairly, sensitively and courteously. household income adjusted (or ‘equivalised’) for household CICA caseworkers receive full training on the Criminal size and composition, to provide a proxy for standard Injuries Compensation Scheme (the scheme) and its of living. application. The sample size of this survey is not sufficient to The training and guidance documentation CICA produce provide estimates for small areas such as those requested. goes through the scheme paragraph by paragraph and However, figures at a regional level for north-west are mentions sexual assault where appropriate, rather than available. Three survey years have been combined because having an individual section dealing with sexual assault. single year estimates are not considered to be sufficiently CICA have advised that their claims officers learn through reliable. applying this guidance to real cases with an experienced Statistics covering 2007-08 to 2009-10 are the most mentor. I have therefore asked CICA to place all parts recent available. of their internal guidance that mention claims arising from sexual offences in the parliamentary Library. The following table shows the proportion and number of children living in relative poverty Before Housing CICA have advised that, because this guidance is Costs (BHC) in the UK, for 2007-08 to 2009-10 in the held in an internal database system, it will take CICA north-west. around a week to compile it and make it available in a readable format for general use. The guidance is constantly Number and proportion of children living in relative poverty (BHC) in the north-west under review and frequently updated, so the material Proportion placed in the Library is valid only on the day extraction Region Number (million) (percentage) began—18 November 2011. The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for North-west 0.4 25 Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member Notes: 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), does not provide training or (HBAI) data available at: guidance notes to first-tier tribunal members because http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=hbai_arc the judiciary are entirely independent of the Government. 2. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income The tribunal is drawn from a judicial panel appointed (HBAI) data sourced from the Family Resources Survey (FRS). This by the Lord Chancellor and makes its decision based on uses disposable household income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation factors for household size and composition, as an the law. This function is headed by the Social Entitlement income measure as a proxy for standard of living. Chamber President, thereby ensuring the impartiality 3. Net disposable incomes have been used to answer the question. of the judiciary. This includes earnings from employment and self-employment, state support, income from occupational and private pensions, investment income and other sources. Income tax, payments, national insurance Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for contributions, council tax/domestic rates and some other payments Justice on how many occasions the Criminal Injuries are deducted from incomes. Compensation Authority refused (a) at first instance, 4. Figures have been presented on a Before Housing Cost rather than (b) at review and (c) on appeal claims for compensation an After Housing Cost basis. For Before Housing Costs, housing costs are not deducted from income, while for After Housing Costs by claimants for rape and sexual adult assault compensation they are. where there has not been a complaint to police, a charge 5. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to a brought or a prosecution in the last year for which degree of uncertainty. Small differences should be treated with caution figures are available. [81838] as these will be affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. 6. The reference period for these HBAI figures is three financial years. 7. Numbers of children have been rounded to the nearest hundred Mr Djanogly: CICA do not have figures showing how thousand children. many people were refused compensation categorised by 8. Proportions of children in low-income households have been reference to specific crimes. The Criminal Injuries rounded to the nearest percentage point. 9. This measure is defined as: Compensation Scheme (the Scheme), which was approved Relative poverty: children living in households with equivalised incomes by Parliament in 2008, provides for awards to be assessed below 60% of contemporary median household income. primarily by reference to criminal injuries. Injury 10. The Child Poverty Act 2010 sets three further income-based descriptions, from the Scheme’s ’tariff of injuries’, are UK-wide targets to be met by 2020. The targets are based on the therefore used as the primary basis for calculating and proportion of children living in households with combined low income and material deprivation, absolute low income and persistent recording payments actually made, and these would poverty. only be applied to someone’s case if they were assessed Source: as eligible to receive the associated payment. Households Below Average Income 1994-05 to 2009-10, DWP 371W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 372W

Disability Living Allowance The main effect is an increased eligibility for income- related benefits which are administered by the Department Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for for Work and Pensions. Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the The impact assessment also stated that there may be effectiveness of the medical reassessment programme some related impacts for health budgets. For example, for individuals claiming disability benefits in reducing those who become eligible for income-related ESA may the number of claimants; and what the change has been also be eligible for passported benefits such as free NHS in the number of claimants since its inception. [81348] prescriptions. However, the costs of this have not been fully incorporated in the overall costs in the impact Chris Grayling: The reassessment of old-style incapacity assessment due to the uncertainty over the likely take-up benefits claimants is a key part of the Government’s of these benefits for the groups affected and variability reform agenda to create and deliver a 21st century in the devolved Administrations. welfare system by ensuring that those people who can work are given the correct help and support to do so. Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The reassessment of existing incapacity benefits customers and Pensions how many claims for employment and was rolled out nationally from April 2011. support allowance (ESA) were refused in the last 12 months; Incapacity benefit (IB) recipients will undergo a work how many had zero points allocated; how many such capability assessment to determine benefit entitlement, claims were by cancer patients; how many claimants and, if eligible, will move to employment and support were recalled for a further medical assessment for ESA allowance, which replaced IB for new claims from October eligibility after 12 months; how many such people were 2008. We estimate that about 1.5 million people will go again refused; how many of them subsequently appealed; through the IB reassessment process, which is expected and if he will make a statement. [80573] to run until 2014. More details of the likely impacts of IB reassessment Chris Grayling: Decisions on entitlement to employment are available in the impact assessment from page 5 of and support allowance (ESA) using the work capability the following link: assessment (WCA) rest solely with the Department’s http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/875/pdfs/ decision makers taking into account the medical assessment uksiem_20100875_en.pdf reports from Atos and any other relevant information. There are currently 2.6 million people of working age Table 1 as follows provides details of the number of on employment and support allowance and incapacity work capability assessments held between June 2010 benefits. Early estimates suggest that overall the numbers and May 2011. The figures are broken down for all on these benefits have been gradually decreasing. These initial and all repeat WCAs held. can be found at the following link: A repeat WCA is the second or subsequent WCA http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=early_ests undertaken on an existing, continuous ESA claim. These Notes: claimants will have already been assessed as having a 1. The Department regularly publishes official statistics on the limited capability for work at their initial WCA and the number of work capability assessments completed for claimants repeat WCA will assess if their capability for work has in receipt of employment and support allowance. The latest changed. report was published in October 2011 and can be found on the internet at the following link: The table also shows the number of claims that are assessed as being fit for work (FFW) and of these, the http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/ index.php?page=esa_wca number that were awarded zero points. The final column presents the number of claims whose main health condition 2. Due to the overall length of the incapacity benefits reassessment process, information on the entire process including the final is cancer related (neoplasms), that were found fit for outcomes and subsequent destinations of claimants being reassessed work and scored zero points at the WCA. The data on is not yet available. Individual level data are being collected, but it health conditions is based on the information recorded will take time to complete because of the overall length of the on the medical certificate (’fitnote’) provided by a person’s reassessment process. The Department plans to publish data on GP when they first make a claim for ESA. This represents the outcomes of the reassessment process but only once they have what their GP considers to be the reason a person been quality assured and is considered robust. cannot work at that time. However, many people applying for ESA will in fact have more than one condition, these Employment and Support Allowance conditions may affect each other and may change over time. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Table 1. WCA outcomes for assessments held between June 2010 and and Pensions what recent assessment he has made of May 2011 the effects of time-limiting of contributory employment Total FFW and support allowance on health and social care budgets. Initial or Total Total FFW neoplasms repeat WCA Total FFW with zero with zero [80474] WCA held outcomes points points Chris Grayling: The Department published an impact Initial 447,500 264,800 202,000 2,000 assessment of the proposal to time limit contributory Repeat 158,100 50,800 35,100 1,600 employment and support allowance (ESA) to one year Total 605,700 315,600 237,100 3,700 for those in the work related activity group. This is available at the following link: Table 2 as follows provides information on the number http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa-time-limit-wr2011-ia-revised- of completed appeals against a fit for work decision for apr2011.pdf claims starting between September 2009 and August 373W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 374W

2010 (the latest 12 monthly period for which data is decision makers taking into account the medical assessment available). Again, this has been broken down for all reports from Atos and any other relevant information. initial and all repeat WCAs held. The Department regularly publishes official statistics Table 2. ESA Appeals against a FFW decision. Claims starting on the number of work capability assessments (WCAs) between September 2009 and August 2010 completed for claimants in receipt of ESA. The latest Number report was published in October 2011 and presents completed assessments to May 11 (which are the latest Appeal against initial WCA 91,200 data available). The report and tables can be found on Appeal against repeat WCA 6,000 the internet at the following link: Total 97,200 http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/ Notes: index.php?page=esa_wca 1. The Department regularly publishes official statistics on the employment and support allowance (ESA) work capability assessment at the (a) Information on the number of WCAs completed national level. The latest report, published in October 2011 and can for St Helens South and Whiston constituency is unavailable be found here: so data for Knowsley and St Helens local authorities http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/index.php?page=esa_wca 2. The data presented above comes from benefit claims data held by have been provided in tables 1and 2. All numbers have the Department for Work and Pensions, functional assessment data been rounded to the nearest hundred and as a result from Atos Healthcare and appeals data from the Tribunals Service. may not sum to the totals shown. 3. Data on appeals includes ESA claims started from September 2009 Table 1: Completed assessments in Knowsley up to the end of August 2010 (the latest month where we have sufficient volumes of appeals heard to include in the publication) Initial Repeat where the person claiming has been assessed to be Fit for Work, they assessments assessments Total subsequently appeal the Department’s decision and the appeal has been heard by the Tribunals Service. 2008 (from 000 4. Due to the time it takes for appeals to be submitted to the Tribunals October) Service and heard, it is likely that there are more appeals that have not 2009 1,300 0 1,300 yet been heard. Therefore these figures should be treated as emerging 2010 2,100 400 2,500 findings rather than final at this stage. 2011 (to May) 600 300 1,000 5. All figures have been rounded to the nearest 100 and are consistent with the official statistics publication referred to in footnote 1 above. Total 4,000 800 4,800 Table 2: Completed assessments in St Helens Employment and Support Allowance: Atos Healthcare Initial Repeat assessments assessments Total

Mr Woodward: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 (from 000 Work and Pensions how many complaints about medical October) assessments for employment and support allowance 2009 1,300 0 1,300 conducted by Atos Healthcare were recorded in (a) 2010 2,000 400 2,400 St Helens South and Whiston constituency, (b) Merseyside 2011 (to May) 600 300 1,000 and (c) England in each year since 2008. [81334] Total 3,900 800 4,700 Chris Grayling: Atos Healthcare does not record complaints by parliamentary constituency or by a regional (b) The number of completed assessments in Merseyside area such as Merseyside but by Medical Services Centre is shown in table 3. All numbers have been rounded to (MSC). the nearest hundred and as a result may not sum to the Therefore, data has been provided for Bootle MSC totals shown. (the MSC responsible for ESA referrals in the St Helens Table 3: Completed assessments in Merseyside South and Whiston constituency and the Merseyside Initial Repeat area) and for the nine MSCs in located in England assessments assessments Total (Birmingham, Bootle, Bristol, Croydon, Leeds, Manchester, 2008 (from 000 Newcastle, Nottingham and Wembley). October) ESA only 2009 10,000 200 10,100 Region 2008 2009 2010 20111 2010 14,900 2,600 17,500 2011 (to May) 5,800 2,500 8,300 Bootle 0 81 118 136 MSC Total 30,700 5,300 36,000 English 1 1377 1939 1574 MSCs (c) The number of completed assessments in England 1 To date. is shown in table 4. All numbers have been rounded to the nearest hundred and as a result may not sum to the Mr Woodward: To ask the Secretary of State for totals shown. Work and Pensions how many medical assessments for employment and support allowance were conducted by Table 4: Completed assessments in England Atos Healthcare in (a) St Helens South and Whiston Initial Repeat constituency, (b) Merseyside and (c) England in each assessments assessments Total year since 2008. [81335] 2008 (from 700 0 700 October) Chris Grayling: Decisions on entitlement to employment 2009 243,100 4,100 247,100 and support allowance (ESA) using the work capability 2010 355,800 79,300 435,100 assessment (WCA) rest solely with the Department’s 2011 (to May) 149,200 70,200 219,500 375W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 376W

Table 4: Completed assessments in England European Union Initial Repeat assessments assessments Total Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Total 748,800 153,700 902,400 for Work and Pensions how many officials in his Notes: Department are working on the Government’s examination 1. Employment and support allowance was introduced in October of the balance of existing European Union competences. 2008 therefore most figures for 2008 are small and may round to [81444] zero. 2. The latest data available are for May 2011 so a partial year is presented for 2011. Chris Grayling: The examination of these issues draws 3. The data presented above come from benefit claims data held by on existing resources in the Department for Work and the Department for Work and Pensions and functional assessment Pensions. data from Atos Healthcare. 4. Merseyside includes Knowsley, Liverpool, Sefton, St Helens and Wirral local authority areas. Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many Ministerial-level Employment Schemes meetings have been held in his Department as part of the Government’s examination of the balance of existing European Union competences. [81445] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will investigate reports that prime Chris Grayling: The Department routinely holds contractors to the Work programme are referring ministerial meetings on issues covered in the coalition clients to volunteer centres without making payments agreement. to those centres; and if he will make a statement. [81850] Housing Benefit

Chris Grayling: DWP hold contracts with prime Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for providers, we do not therefore get involved in the Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the arrangements between prime providers and other effect on predicted savings to the public purse from organisations. Those terms are a matter for the interested restrictions on housing benefit based on size criteria of parties to agree. exempting households with a disabled child. [81930] While DWP encourages Work programme providers to forge strategic relationships with local partners, providers Steve Webb: Of the estimated 670,000 working-age and their subcontractors should not be approaching households in receipt of housing benefit and likely to be voluntary organisations if they do not have an agreement affected when the social sector size criteria is introduced with them. in 2013-14, around 20,000 households would be likely to include a disabled child. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Exempting these households from the size criteria Work and Pensions whether he would intervene in a would reduce anticipated savings in housing benefit reported breach of contract between a Work Programme expenditure by around £15 million in 2013-14. prime provider and one of its subcontractors without The estimate of 20,000 affected households includes first receiving a complaint from the subcontractor. cases where disability living allowance is received by, or [81910] in respect, of a dependent child, (regardless of whether it relates to care or mobility, or the rate at which it is Chris Grayling: The Department expects subcontractors paid); or where a child has been registered as blind. and prime providers to work together to resolve any Alternative definitions of disability would be likely to issues as this is a commercial matter for the parties produce differing estimates. involved. We are committed to supporting healthy business relationships between prime providers and their Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for subcontractors. The Merlin standard allows for independent Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of mediation should the prime provider’s internal complaints the effect on predicted savings to the public purse of procedure fail to reach settlement. exempting the first underoccupied bedroom from the size criteria for housing benefit. [81931] Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether the data on referrals to the Steve Webb: Exempting the first underoccupied bedroom Work programme to be published in April 2012 will be for housing benefit claimants living in the social rented provided at the level of individual Tier 1 and Tier 2 sector, would reduce the numbers likely to be affected subcontractors. [81911] by the size criteria in 2013-14 from approximately 670,000 working-age households, to around 150,000. Chris Grayling: Work programme Official Statistics The effect of this would be to reduce anticipated for referrals will be published in the quarterly statistical savings in housing benefit expenditure by more than summary in Spring 2012. Details of the lower level £350 million in 2013-14. geography information that will be published are yet to be decided, however we hope to be able to release Incapacity Benefit figures by local authority, parliamentary constituency and contract package area as well as a standard set of Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State demographic breakdowns. There are no plans to publish for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of below prime contractor level. the number of people who will (a) lose incapacity 377W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 378W benefit and (b) lose all benefits in (i) Easington March Budget 2011 forecast, as set out in Table C1. An update to constituency and (ii) the North East as a consequence those forecasts will be published on 21 December 2011 following of his proposed changes to the benefits system. [81020] the Office for Budget Responsibility’s publication of their autumn forecasts on 29 November 2011. Chris Grayling: No such estimate has been made. Source: The impacts of the proposed changes to the benefit Budget 2011 forecasts and DWP statistical data system as set out in the Welfare Reform Bill are available Job Creation: Intercity Express Programme in the associated impact assessments at the following link: Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work http://www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/welfare%2Dreform/ and Pensions whether his Department plans to estimate legislation%2Dand%2Dkey%2Ddocuments/ welfare%2Dreform%2Dbill%2D2011/ the (a) number, (b) type and (c) duration of jobs impact%2Dassessments%2Dand%2Dequality/ created by the (i) Intercity Express Programme and The impacts of these proposals have been calculated (ii) Thameslink Rolling Stock Programme. [76541] at an aggregate, Great Britain, level and cannot be reliably broken down for smaller geographical areas. Mrs Villiers: I have been asked to reply. The main forthcoming change to incapacity benefits I refer the hon. Member to my answer of 3 November is the proposal to time limit contributory employment 2011, Official Report, column 771W. and support allowance (ESA) to one year for those in Jobcentre Plus the Work Related Activity Group. This is expected to affect around 700,000 people by 2015/16, of which around 60% are expected to be fully or partially Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work compensated by income-related ESA, so will retain and Pensions whether Jobcentre Plus has employed entitlement to ESA. staff to visit other EU countries to offer advice to EU nationals considering applying for jobs in the UK since The remaining 40% are not expected to qualify for its inception. [81152] income-related ESA because they have other income, including that from a partner. These people will no Chris Grayling: Jobcentre Plus employs 12 staff who longer receive ESA benefit payments, but will be able to specialise in giving advice to jobseekers looking for retain National Insurance credits by becoming an ESA work in another EU member state. This is part of our credits-only claimant. They may also see increases in commitment to the network of public employment other benefits such as tax credits and housing benefit. services in Europe called EURES. EURES—the European Incapacity Benefit: Jobseeker’s Allowance Employment Services network, was established in 1994 by the European Commission to facilitate the free movement of workers within the EU. Jobcentre Plus Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work EURES Advisers organise job fairs for UK jobseekers and Pensions what estimate he has made of (a) the wanting to work in Europe and attend job fairs in other likely change in the number of (i) incapacity benefit EU countries to inform EU nationals about the UK claimants and (ii) those in receipt of jobseeker’s labour market. Their advice is centred on deterring allowance and (b) the number of people who will cease unplanned migration to the UK and discouraging to receive benefit while not in employment (A) in each applications to sectors where there is already intense local authority area and (B) of each gender by 2014. competition and high unemployment. [81729] The legal base for EURES dates back to Commission Chris Grayling: The information requested is as follows: Decision 93/569/EEC of 22 October 1993 on the implementing of Council Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 (a) The available information is in the table: on freedom of movement for workers within the Community as regards, in particular, the establishment Change 2010-11 of the EURES network. Great Britain to Jobcentre Plus has by far the least number of EURES (total claimants) 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2013-14 advisers per capita of all the participating countries (12 (i) Incapacity 1,024 771 407 91 -933 compared to 100 in both France and Germany). There benefit are more than 800 EURES advisers in the European (thousand) public employment services. In the UK team, as well as (ii) Jobseeker’s 1,302 1,375 1,342 1,243 -59 the 12 EURES advisers there are six other staff members allowance whose responsibilities cover a wide range of duties. In (thousands) total, those staff who work on EURES related work are: (b) The information requested is not available. Projections for the numbers of people receiving benefits 2 Band Es—EURES manager, EURES delivery manager, are not produced by employment status or below Great 2 Band Ds—EURES adviser line manager, EURES co-ordinator, Britain level. Forecasts for Great Britain to 2015 can be 1 Band C—Budget co-ordinator and 1 Band C—Communications found on the DWP’s website at: co-ordinator http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/ 12 Band C—EURES advisers (11 in post, one vacant) index.php?page=expenditure All Jobcentre Plus travel costs, subsistence and other Note: operational costs for EURES activities are reimbursed The Department’s forecasts for the numbers of people receiving by the European Commission through an annual grant benefits were published following the Office of Budget Responsibility’s agreement with DWP (annual value of ¤350,000). 379W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 380W

Jobcentre Plus exchanges vacancies with other EU 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 countries through the EURES website: PT FT PT FT PT FT PT FT PT FT www.eures.europa.eu From July to November 2011 Jobcentre Plus EURES Total 3 11 1 12 3 29 11 7 17 24 advisers attended 35 job fairs in 19 EU/EEA countries PT = part-time (France: five; Italy: four; Germany, Sweden, Belgium, FT = full-time Note: Norway: three; Poland: two; Ireland, Netherlands, Estonia, Between 2006-07 and 2010-11 Remploy assisted 73 people into employment Malta, Iceland, Portugal, Czech republic, Hungary, of less than three months. Greece, Latvia, Austria, Slovenia: one). Source: Remploy Personal Records: Departmental Coordination

Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Social Exclusion and Pensions what discussions he has had with the devolved administrations about the Tell Us Once Service Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for with particular reference to whether they can participate. Work and Pensions what methodology his Department [82197] uses to estimate the number of people experiencing social exclusion; and whether this methodology has Chris Grayling: The Tell Us Once Programme has changed since May 2010. [81935] worked very closely with officials from the devolved Administration in Scotland, initially to support the introduction of TUO there, and have consulted with Chris Grayling: Social exclusion is a multi-faceted and kept them informed throughout all stages of the concept. Departmental analysts use a variety of piloting and implementation. A letter was sent to MSPs methodological techniques, as appropriate, to analyse on 14 November advising them of the national rollout survey and administrative data relevant to social exclusion of TUO in Scotland. To date 13 local authorities (40.6%) are live with TUO, 29 (90.6%) of LAs have agreed to Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for deliver the service with only three LAs remaining undecided Work and Pensions what assessment his Department on whether to offer the service. has made of the effect of the Work programme on In Wales the Tell Us Once programme has worked tackling social exclusion. [81941] closely with the Office of the Chief Information Officer, initially to support the take up of the Tell Us Once Chris Grayling: It will be some time yet before it is service among unitary authorities in Wales and more possible to assess the performance of the Work programme recently to keep them informed of the progress that has in getting people back to work. As participation lasts been made in the delivery of the service across all for two years, we expect to see substantial indications of 22 Welsh local authorities. the success of the Work programme from spring 2013. My officials have been engaged with officials in Northern A full independent evaluation has been commissioned Ireland to discuss how the TUO service may be made for that year and I look forward to sharing the results available there in future. This level of engagement will with the House in due course. We will closely monitor continue and further consultations will take place once the effectiveness of the programme in the interim. the service has been implemented across England, Wales and Scotland. Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Remploy Work and Pensions what assessment his Department has made of the risk of people aged 16 to 24 claiming Mr Woodward: To ask the Secretary of State for jobseeker’s allowance experiencing long-term cycles of Work and Pensions how many people resident in St Helens deprivation. [81942] South and Whiston constituency Remploy employment services has assisted to find (a) part-time and (b) Chris Grayling: There is a risk that an extended full-time employment lasting more than (i) three months, period of unemployment when young can impact on (ii) six months and (iii) a year in each of the last five later earnings potential, increase the probability of a years. [80954] future spell out of work, or have a wider detrimental effect on health and well-being. Maria Miller: The information is provided in the As a result the Government’s policies focus on keeping following table: young people active in their job search and helping them to engage in real work with employers. This is 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 supported by access to work experience opportunities PT FT PT FT PT FT PT FT PT FT and referrals to apprenticeships and sector-based work Over —1—2—63—77academies. three This ensures that most young people flow off jobseeker’s months allowance quickly.Of the around 125,000 16 to 24-year-olds Over ————— 3— 3 910 currently joining JSA each month, 60% leave within the six months first three months and 80% within six months. Those Over 3101103208417who need more intensive support or who become long-term 12 unemployed are referred to the Work programme at months three or nine months. 381W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 382W

Social Security Benefits Chris Grayling: When asked for average duration, our normal practice is to provide a distribution of length of Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work current claims (caseload) or completed claims (off-flows). and Pensions what the costs have been of administration This is more informative than a single summary figure, of (a) disability living allowance, (b) incapacity benefit as it provides information on how varied the lengths of and (c) employment and support allowance for each of the claims are as well as the length of a typical claim. the last three years. [80363] Table 1 shows the average (median) duration for jobseeker’s allowance off-flows—the median is the standard Chris Grayling: The information is as follows: measure for average duration. Direct staff administration costs Table 2 shows employment and support allowance £ million off-flows by duration. Some development work has 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 taken place on calculation of average (median) durations for benefits other than JSA but further development Disability living 55.7 55.3 49.9 allowance needs to be undertaken on better understanding the robustness and interpretation of the results. Incapacity benefit 81.3 57.7 29.7 Employment 19.1 95.6 90.6 support allowance Table 1: Jobseeker’s allowance median duration of off-flows in Great Source: Britain for each year shown Activity Based Management system Median duration Figures shown cover the last three financial years for Date Total off-flows (weeks) which final audited accounts are available. Costs are the April 2009 to March 2010 3,846,130 10.9 total administration costs including the cost of appeals. (inclusive) Existing incapacity benefit claimants began migrating April 2010 to March 2011 3,823,050 11.4 to employment support allowance in the latter half of (inclusive) 2009/10. Notes: 1. Off-flows have been rounded to the nearest 10, duration to one Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for decimal place. Work and Pensions for what average period a claimant 2. Data are published at: https://www.nomisweb.co.uk of (a) jobseeker’s allowance and (b) employment and Source: support allowance was claiming the allowance in the 100% Count of claimants of unemployment-related benefits, Jobcentre financial year (i) 2009-10 and (ii) 2010-11. [81550] Plus Computer Systems

Table 2: Employment and support allowance off-flows in Great Britain by duration of claim: May 2009 to February 2011 Up to three Three to six Six months up to One year up to Two years and Date Total months months one year two years over

May 2009 50,490 24,020 24,860 1,610 * * August 2009 80,450 26,460 36,590 17,410 * * November 2009 109,670 30,770 41,470 36,620 810 * February 2010 102,790 25,620 35,300 35,160 6,720 * May 2010 118,610 30,760 38,120 35,970 13,770 * August 2010 131,180 32,010 42,660 34,930 21,580 * November 2010 135,020 33,700 42,620 35,330 23,180 200 February 2011 123,120 28,340 41,200 31,340 20,170 2,050 ″*″ = Denotes nil or negligible. Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals may not sum due to rounding. 2. Employment and support allowance (ESA) replaced incapacity benefit and income support paid on the grounds of incapacity for new claims from 27 October 2008. 4. Off-flows are total number of spells on ESA that ended within the quarter. A person may flow on and off the same benefit more than once during a quarter. 5. Data are published at: http://83.244.183.180/flows/flows_off/esa/tabtool_esa.html Source: DWP Information Directorate: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100%

Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work closed in the period 1 April 2011 to 31 October 2011. and Pensions how many claimants have had their benefits This figure includes claims that have been closed due stopped because of failure to respond to Benefits Integrity to claimants failing to respond to requests for Centre telephone spot checks in the latest period for information, and claims where a decision has been which figures are available; and how many complaints made that there is no longer an entitlement to benefit in each complaint category his Department has received after reviewing the claim. Claims closure data are not concerning these checks. [81715] kept by category. In total, 97 written inquiries and complaints have Chris Grayling: Following a review of entitlement by been received by Benefit Integrity Centres in the period a Benefit Integrity Centre, 16,317 claims have been but these data are not kept by category. 383W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 384W

Unemployment: Northern Ireland keeps in regular contact with the Northern Ireland Executive on the subject of welfare reform at both Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for ministerial and official levels. Work and Pensions what the unemployment rate was in This includes recent trips to Northern Ireland by Northern Ireland in each of the last 10 years. [82013] both the Minister for Disabled People the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Chris Grayling: Northern Ireland has had a separate Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), and my noble social security system and a separate national insurance Friend the Lord Freud. These trips included meetings fund for many years and is responsible for its own with Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive. Officials employment policy. also meet regularly. The request for this information should, therefore, be Work Capability Assessment addressed to the Northern Ireland Executive.

Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people of working age Work and Pensions what consideration he has given to were on unemployment benefits in Northern Ireland in people undertaking a work capability assessment who suffer from medical conditions that fluctuate. [81982] each of the last 10 years. [82014]

Chris Grayling: Northern Ireland has had a separate Chris Grayling: The Work Capability Assessment social security system and a separate national insurance (WCA) has been specifically designed to give people fund for many years. with conditions which fluctuate the opportunity to explain how their condition varies over time. The The request for this information should, therefore, be questionnaire that customers are sent has been redesigned addressed to the Northern Ireland Executive. so that people are directly asked if their mental or physical functions vary, and asked to give more details Universal Credit of how this affects them as an individual. The health care professionals who carry out the Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for WCA are trained to ask about and, take account of Work and Pensions what definition he plans to use of fluctuation. The assessment is not a snapshot—if a in work when setting the universal credit household person cannot carry out a function repeatedly and benefit cap. [81912] reliably they will be treated as unable to carry out that function at all. Chris Grayling: We are introducing the benefit cap to The activities and descriptors used in the assessment promote fairness between those in and out of work and were developed in consultation with medical experts to increase incentives for people to move into work or and representative groups to ensure that they are appropriate increase their hours of employment. In support of these for all conditions. The consultation involved considerable objectives, households which contain a member who is discussion about the variability of some conditions and eligible for working tax credit will be exempt from the we have now made some changes in this area. cap. We are still considering the precise criteria for a We are committed to continuous improvement of the corresponding exemption under universal credit. WCA to ensure the assessment is as fair and accurate as possible. Professor Malcolm Harrington, a highly respected Welfare Reform: Northern Ireland occupational physician, is due shortly to publish his second independent review of the WCA. Recognising Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for that particular concerns have been raised about the way Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the WCA works for people with fluctuating conditions, the potential effects of his welfare reform proposals in Professor Harrington asked leading charities, including Northern Ireland. [82011] the MS Society, to make recommendations to refine the descriptors used in the WCA as part of this review. Chris Grayling: Northern Ireland has had a separate We look forward to publishing Professor Harrington’s social security system and a separate National Insurance recommendations. Fund for many years. Responsibility for social security, child support and pensions in Northern Ireland rests Work Capability Assessment: Multiple Sclerosis with their Department for Social Development. It is, therefore, a matter for the Minister for Social Development Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for to arrange for any assessment of the possible effects of Work and Pensions what consideration he has given to the welfare reform proposals in Northern Ireland. having only medical practitioners who are specialists in multiple sclerosis carrying out work capability Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for assessments for sufferers of the disease. [81981] Work and Pensions what discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the potential effects Chris Grayling: The contract between DWP and Atos of his planned welfare reform proposals. [82012] Healthcare requires that face to face WCA assessment of claimants with multiple sclerosis must be carried out Chris Grayling: Responsibility for Social Security in by a doctor. Northern Ireland rests with the Northern Ireland Executive. There is however no requirement for Atos to employ However, as required under Section 87 of the Northern specialist doctors to conduct assessments because Ireland Act, the Department of Work and Pensions entitlement to benefit is based upon the functional 385W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 386W impairment associated with the underlying medical Damian Green: As a signatory to the 1951 Refugee condition, rather than the nature of the medical condition Convention, the UK fully considers all asylum applications itself. lodged in the UK. However, the UK’s international For this reason all doctors who carry out assessments obligations under the convention do not extend to the for benefit purposes are trained in disability assessment consideration of asylum applications lodged abroad medicine and this includes assessment of people with and there is no provision in our immigration rules for multiple sclerosis. someone overseas to be given permission to travel to the UK to seek asylum. All doctors working for Atos are provided with an evidence based protocol on multiple sclerosis as part of Bolivia: Drugs their initial training. In addition, there is learning set on multiple sclerosis and motor neurone disease available to all doctors as part of Atos’ Continuing Medical Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Education programme. Home Department what assessment she has made of the effect on the maintenance of the 1961 UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs of (a) Bolivia re-acceding to the Convention with a reservation on coca leaf and HOME DEPARTMENT (b) Bolivia’s re-accession being denied due to their requirement of a reservation on coca leaf; [82202] 2010 Drugs Strategy (2) if she will take into account (a) the right of Bolivia to make use of article 14 of the 1988 UN Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the Convention on Drug Trafficking stating that signatories Home Department whether she has set terms of reference shall take due account of traditional licit uses, where for the annual review of the 2010 Drugs Strategy; and there is historic evidence of such use and (b) Bolivia’s whether she plans to publish the findings of the review. need to adhere to its constitution and the 2007 UN [81723] Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People in her response to the Bolivian application for re-accession to James Brokenshire: The Government’s Drug Strategy the 1961 UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs ″Reducing Demand, Restricting Supply, Building Recovery: with a reservation on coca leaf. [82203] Supporting People to Live a Drug Free Life″, published in December 2010, included a commitment to an annual James Brokenshire: The Government are currently review. This will review the strategy and provide a status considering how to respond to Bolivia’s withdrawal update on the first full year of implementation. We are from and forthcoming reapplication to the UN Single aiming to publish by the end of March 2012. Convention on Narcotic Drugs 1961 and in doing so is taking into account all relevant international agreements, Asylum including the UN convention against the Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances 1988 and the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the People 2007, as well as the Bolivian Constitution. The Home Department how many legacy asylum cases Government are also assessing the effect of all possible concerned people resident in Bexleyheath and Crayford outcomes on the maintenance of the convention. constituency in each year since March 2007; and how many such asylum seekers received support from the British Nationality National Asylum Support Service. [81456]

Damian Green: Information is not held in relation to Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the the specific date that individuals move to certain areas. Home Department with reference to the citizenship We have therefore provided figures for the number of data tables Immigration Statistics April-June 2011 legacy asylum cases based on the applicant’s last known table cz.09, refusals of citizenship by reason, how many address with postcodes in the Bexleyheath and Crayford refusals were due to the applicant being not of good constituency. The total number of people with legacy character as a result of committing a criminal offence asylum cases who are resident in the Bexleyheath and in the UK. [82108] Crayford constituency is 40. Damian Green: The available statistics are given in the The National Asylum Support Service has not provided following table. It is not possible to separately identify support to any asylum seekers within the Bexleyheath refusals of British citizenship due to a criminal conviction and Crayford constituency. within the published figures before December 2007 Source: when a specific code for this outcome was introduced to Local Management information provided by the UK Border the UK Border Agency Case Information Database. Agency, North West Region Planning and MI team. It is not a national statistic. As such it should be treated as provisional and Refusals of British citizenship by selected reason therefore subject to change. Not of good character—criminal Total refusals and Asylum: Libya Year of refusal conviction withdrawals 2002 n/a 8,331 Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2003 n/a 10,555 Home Department what her policy is on Libyans 2004 n/a 13,818 stranded in refugee camps who wish to claim asylum in 2005 n/a 16,642 the UK. [82026] 2006 n/a 15,309 387W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 388W

Refusals of British citizenship by selected reason Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications Not of good by country of origin or birth 2006-10 character—criminal Total refusals and Applications received Year of refusal conviction withdrawals Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total 2007 7 15,628 2008 1,397 9,086 Aden 9 12 4 2 5 32 2009 1,515 10,251 Afghanistan 5,321 9,259 4,950 4,151 4,894 28,575 2010 1,185 7,974 Albania 777 871 1,142 1,255 1,300 5,345 n/a = Not available. Algeria 802 1,008 995 1,064 1,496 5,365 Notes: American Samoa — — — 1 — 1 1. Derived from table cz.09 published in ‘Immigration Statistics—April Andorra 1 — — 1 — 2 to June 2011’. 2. Data for 2010 are provisional figures. Angola 726 893 1,105 716 617 4,057 3. Data presented relates to number of persons. Anguilla 26 14 9 4 8 61 4. Cases dealt with in the United Kingdom. Antigua and 18 20 20 21 9 88 Source: Barbuda Migration Statistics Argentina 135 120 158 201 158 772 The latest Home Office immigration statistics on Armenia 106 110 67 102 71 456 persons refused British citizenship, from which the data Aruba —2—2—4 in this reply are derived, are given in table ’cz.09’ of the Australia 2,840 2,277 2,029 2,188 2,196 11,530 statistical release ’Immigration Statistics April-June 2011’. Austria 27 28 32 28 33 148 This publication is available from the Library of the Awaiting country —— 1—— 1 House and from the Home Office Science website at: to be added to list Azerbaijan 159 188 181 144 131 803 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- statistics/research-statistics/immigration-asylum-research/ Bahamas 171321182291 immigration-q2-2011/ Bahrain 79 59 67 127 87 419 Bangladesh 1,329 2,677 5,247 11,372 7,504 28,129 Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Barbados 136 107 105 86 60 494 Home Department (1) with reference to the citizenship Belarus 151 156 185 259 241 992 data tables Immigration Statistics April-June 2011 Belgium 6661374271277 table cz.09, refusals of citizenship by reason, how many Belize 17 16 15 14 11 73 applicants not of good character were subsequently Benin 161619132589 removed from the UK; [82109] Bermuda 2312311 Bhutan 25 25 32 25 20 127 (2) with reference to the citizenship data tables Immigration Statistics April-June 2011 table cz.01, Bolivia 46 73 90 87 61 357 Bosnia and 200 184 118 147 112 761 citizenship applications, grants and refusals, how many Herzegovina (a) applicants for British citizenship and (b) successful Botswana 2539416872245 applicants for British citizenship were individuals who originally came to the UK as an asylum seeker in each Brazil 450 593 726 849 1,015 3,633 British Guiana 1 1——— 2 of the last five years. [82110] British Virgin 15 11 12 1 5 44 (3) with reference to the citizenship data tables Islands Immigration Statistics April-June 2011, table cz.01 Brunei 63 40 57 54 112 326 citizenship applications, grants and refusals, how many Bulgaria 490 952 939 1,744 1,761 5,886 (a) applicants and (b) successful applicants for British Burkina Faso 5 4 10 6 16 41 citizenship were from individuals who had spent a Burma 15 17 14 22 11 79 period of time illegally residing in the UK in each of the Burundi 449 533 532 362 278 2,154 last five years. [82111] Byelorussian SSR ————— 0 Cambodia 1 6 12 17 19 55 Damian Green: The information can be provided only Cambodia 14 16 9 10 16 65 at disproportionate cost as it would require a substantial (Kampuchea) data matching exercise which would exceed the cost Cameroon 329 420 414 419 458 2,040 threshold. Canada 1,090 915 758 868 843 4,474 CapeVerde3434620 Cayman Islands 32 23 14 11 12 92 Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Central African 5723320 Home Department with reference to the citizenship Republic data tables Immigration Statistics April-June 2011, Ceylon — 1——— 1 table cz.01 citizenship applications, grants and refusals, how many (a) applicants and (b) successful applicants Chad 4423242315129 for British citizenship were from each country of origin Chile 89 73 103 93 74 432 or birth in each of the last five years. [82112] China 1,716 2,527 2,959 4,956 5,507 17,665 Colombia 804 1,436 1,148 887 841 5,116 Comoros 212117 Damian Green: The following tables provide information relating to the country of birth for the applications for Congo 323 312 222 252 256 1,365 British citizenship and those successful, for the last five Congo 13 16 11 11 8 59 (Brazzaville) years: 389W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 390W

Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications by country of origin or birth 2006-10 by country of origin or birth 2006-10 Applications received Applications received Country of origin Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total

Cook Islands 1 — 1 1 — 3 Guyana 234 260 261 322 435 1,512 Costa Rica 15 12 17 11 12 67 Haiti 11 687133 Cote D’Ivoire 247 346 333 335 400 1,661 Honduras 19 26 13 14 29 101 (Ivory Coast) Hong Kong 485 656 743 1,922 2,287 6,093 Cote D’Ivoire 59441234Hungary 96 89 52 83 236 556 (Ivory Coast) Iceland 2 5 1 11 7 26 Croatia 296 287 168 187 135 1,073 India 9,423 12,726 13,594 22,023 25,334 83,100 Cuba 88 93 95 100 108 484 Indonesia 136 166 136 192 186 816 Cyprus 153 142 104 131 139 669 Iran (Islamic 3,324 3,457 2,616 2,655 2,731 14,783 Czechoslovakia2515720Republic of) Czech Republic 78 73 46 63 99 359 Iraq 5,217 5,068 9,158 4,592 4,854 28,889 Democratic 31381631Ireland 224 195 100 126 142 787 People’s Republic Israel 375 386 360 425 386 1,932 of Korea Israeli Occupied 9— 4——13 Democratic 1,281 1,579 1,526 1,622 1,778 7,786 Territories Republic of the Congo Italy 197 204 162 179 216 958 Denmark 32 34 31 21 45 163 Jamaica 2,280 3,226 2,944 2,736 2,566 13,752 Djibouti 9 12 14 12 22 69 Japan 130 150 142 172 146 740 Dominica 56 58 68 47 55 284 Jordan 265 128 126 180 140 839 Dominican 48 54 60 82 68 312 Kazakhstan 112 108 128 122 133 603 Republic Kenya 2,776 2,386 1,933 2,194 1,999 11,288 Dutch East Indies — — 1 — — 1 Kiribati 1 — 1 — 3 5 EastTimor—313—7Korea 19 17 8 18 11 73 Ecuador 350 651 608 453 426 2,488 Kosovo 437 292 621 1,195 1,262 3,807 Egypt 618 552 516 751 917 3,354 Kosovo 322 164 676 161 95 1,418 El Salvador 9 8 20 13 12 62 Kuwait 354 255 255 346 321 1,531 Equatorial 43104425Kyrgyzstan 46 63 55 59 36 259 Guinea Lao People’s 6 7 10 17 14 54 Eritrea 460 564 559 568 816 2,967 Democratic Estonia 5547252854209Republic Ethiopia 798 974 780 738 832 4,122 Latvia 73 72 46 54 139 384 Federal Republic 4,620 1,650 108 37 16 6,431 Lebanon 646 489 476 613 656 2,880 of Yugoslavia Lesotho 12 19 19 21 30 101 Federation of ——— 1— 1Liberia 176 182 178 160 178 874 Rhodesia and Libya 90 61 44 41 36 272 Nyasaland Libya (Arab 202 286 270 374 308 1,440 Fiji 35 90 97 77 102 401 Republic) Finland 31 32 33 37 30 163 Libyan Arab ——— 1— 1 France 289 306 251 283 319 1,448 Republic FrenchGuiana2316214Liechtenstein 1 — — 1 — 2 French Polynesia — 1——— 1Lithuania 110 109 65 106 206 596 Gabon 7 13 5 10 11 46 Luxembourg 2535318 Gambia 253 365 369 504 503 1,994 Macao Special 11 21 8 10 9 59 Georgia 152 133 128 171 148 732 Administrative Region of China German 2111—5 Democratic Macedonia 158 190 167 167 149 831 Republic (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Germany 374 413 377 406 446 2,016 Madagascar 10 19 13 13 16 71 Ghana 1,886 2,802 3,055 3,781 3,712 15,236 Malawi 162 231 203 247 300 1,143 Gibraltar 17 21 17 16 15 86 Malaya 2 1 1 — — 4 Gilbert Islands — — — 1 — 1 Malaysia 408 595 745 966 964 3,678 Goa ——21—3 Maldives 1328418 Greece 109 218 159 159 178 823 Mali 95781241 Greenland — — — 1 — 1 Malta 44 23 19 16 26 128 Grenada 5167566367304Marshall Islands — — 1 — — 1 Guadeloupe 3223414Martinique 112138 Guam — — — — 1 1 Mauritania 1538219 Guatemala 192226201198Mauritius 568 801 684 928 829 3,810 Guinea 3475889597389Mayotte —— 1—— 1 Guinea-Bissau 5 10 11 20 21 67 Mexico 131 119 146 225 228 849 391W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 392W

Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications by country of origin or birth 2006-10 by country of origin or birth 2006-10 Applications received Applications received Country of origin Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total

Moldova, 96 104 114 127 141 582 Serbia and 140 150 5 4 5 304 Republic of Montenegro Monaco 1 — — 2 7 10 Seychelles 58 60 56 70 45 289 Mongolia 31 54 68 60 65 278 Sierra Leone 1,359 1,701 1,220 945 901 6,126 Montenegro 28 6 2 15 1 52 Singapore 127 124 160 184 167 762 Montserrat 4112614Slovakia 119 100 56 75 176 526 Morocco 426 539 608 640 733 2,946 Slovenia 6 10 2 6 9 33 Mozambique 49 70 80 84 71 354 Solomon Islands —118212 Myanmar 139 162 167 199 222 889 Somalia 8,179 6,429 7,430 6,301 5,327 33,666 Namibia 6372589062345South Africa 6,769 6,937 5,694 6,952 6,702 33,054 Nationality 1———— 1Southern 7442522 currently Rhodesia unknown Southern Yemen 1 1 2 — — 4 Nepal 825 863 975 1,424 2,294 6,381 South Korea (Rep 224 483 438 741 615 2,501 Netherlands 71 102 66 75 100 414 of Korea) Netherlands 221319South West Africa 1———— 1 Antilles Soviet Union —3107929 New Caledonia — 1——— 1(USSR) New Zealand 1,315 1,182 1,051 1,140 1,194 5,882 Spain 158 134 116 121 130 659 Nicaragua 12 5 13 13 12 55 Sri Lanka 3,025 5,300 3,531 4,332 4,179 20,367 Niger 6538628St Christopher — 1 1—— 2 Nigeria 4,272 5,077 4,887 5,742 6,896 26,874 and Nevis Niue ——— 1— 1St. Helena 1———— 1 Northern 1——— 1 2St Kitts and Nevis 47 24 18 22 12 123 Mariana Islands St. Lucia 66 129 144 110 144 593 Northern ———224St Vincent and 58 152 156 100 76 542 Rhodesia the Grenadines Norway 2717181920101Sudan 780 665 659 882 812 3,798 Nyasaland 1 1 — — 1 3 Suriname 3 4 — 4 2 13 Oman 3226487584265Swaziland 15 28 21 31 50 145 Pakistan 6,401 9,296 11,953 18,184 20,834 66,668 Sweden 43 68 56 57 69 293 Palestinian 88 71 109 200 174 642 Switzerland 130 89 84 102 74 479 Authority Taiwan (Republic 153 150 196 233 226 958 Panama 10 10 32 15 20 87 of China) Panama Canal ———— 1 1Tajikistan 12 8 12 16 22 70 Zone Tanganyika and 4534420 Papua New 20 22 15 19 21 97 Zanzibar Guinea Thailand 558 1,044 1,286 1,837 2,184 6,909 Paraguay 92711736 The Syrian Arab 343 288 289 419 427 1,766 Peru 137 177 201 198 230 943 Republic Philippines 7,202 8,590 6,258 9,465 8,260 39,775 Tibet 4 1 3 15 4 27 Poland 385 474 279 489 1,351 2,978 Timor-Leste — — — 1 — 1 Portugal 128 98 92 115 104 537 Togo 85 95 63 93 65 401 Puerto Rico —147315 Tonga 1 9 12 5 9 36 Qatar 24 28 16 40 28 136 Trinidad and 414 427 443 549 488 2,321 Republic of 12 6 35 41 28 122 Tobago Montenegro Tunisia 119 158 173 201 206 857 Republic of 187 358 396 349 285 1,575 Serbia Turkey 3,168 3,348 5,184 6,249 4,208 22,157 Reunion 31—138Turkish ——— 1— 1 controlled area of Rhodesia 32 29 28 27 15 131 Cyprus Romania 3 4 6 783 786 1,582 Turkmenistan 11 23 28 27 34 123 Romania 510 461 403 112 123 1,609 Turks and Caicos ———— 1 1 Russian 1,544 1,487 1,393 1,517 1,610 7,551 Islands Federation Uganda 1,103 1,104 934 918 884 4,943 Rwanda 536 549 386 281 223 1,975 Ukraine 860 918 802 963 997 4,540 Samoa 3324517Union of ———— 2 2 Sao Tome and 31—116Myanmar Principe United Arab 197 159 152 259 329 1,096 Saudi Arabia 511 426 398 731 832 2,898 Emirates Senegal 3134374864214United Kingdom 18,298 14,129 13,331 18,625 21,881 86,264 393W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 394W

Applications received for British citizenship and successful applications 1 by country of origin or birth 2006-10 Successful (grants) Applications received Country of origin Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total Brazil 548 621 596 928 999 3,692 United Rep of 581 574 481 497 476 2,609 British Guiana 1 1 1 — — 3 Tanzania British Virgin 14 12 8 4 4 42 United States of 2,421 2,370 2,271 2,548 2,585 12,195 Islands America Brunei 5837536193302 United States ——2114Bulgaria 516 1,039 710 1,761 1,793 5,819 Virgin Islands BurkinaFaso63591437 Unknown— 29 17 8 13 12 79 Burma 26 18 10 19 13 86 officially Burundi 337 581 455 360 289 2,022 designated Byelorussian SSR 1———— 1 Uruguay 261416132695 Cambodia — 5 9 16 20 50 USSR 192 184 141 180 195 892 Cambodia 15 26 8 10 14 73 Uzbekistan 75 77 85 99 90 426 (Kampuchea) Vanuatu —1——12Cameroon 324 429 331 430 440 1,954 Venezuela 96 149 157 200 194 796 Canada 1,586 1,264 978 1,176 996 6,000 Vietnam 212 313 389 436 493 1,843 CapeVerde2144617 Western Sahara 1 — 2 — — 3 Cayman Islands 18 30 15 9 10 82 Yemen 559 405 424 689 582 2,659 Central African 5343318 Yemen Arab 2—— 3— 5Republic Republic Ceylon — 1——— 1 Yugoslavia 212 112 122 139 85 670 Chad 4227202313125 Zambia 453 632 559 766 798 3,208 Chile 103 86 92 98 75 454 Zimbabwe 3,037 5,755 6,569 6,987 5,905 28,253 China 2,143 2,953 2,333 5,178 5,472 18,079 378 459 264 241 202 1,544 Colombia 1,371 1,603 1,002 973 837 5,786 Total 140,925 157,112 156,104 193,979 199,826 847,946 Comoros 122117 Congo 384 330 192 219 255 1,380 Successful (grants)1 Congo 11 16 9 8 12 56 (Brazzaville) Country of origin Cook Islands 1 — 1 1 — 3 or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total Costa Rica 17 13 12 17 11 70 Aden 8104— 224Cote D’Ivoire ————— 0 Afghanistan 2,994 9,588 5,130 4,545 4,783 27,040 (Ivory Coast) Albania 699 1,014 883 1,339 1,247 5,182 Cote D’Ivoire 264 334 282 345 400 1,625 Algeria 894 1,045 853 1,199 1,332 5,323 (Ivory Coast) American Samoa — — — 1 — 1 Croatia 483 312 136 199 121 1,251 Andorra 1 — — 1 — 2 Cuba 107 107 85 104 108 511 Angola 626 884 848 699 589 3,646 Cyprus 395 159 95 129 132 910 Anguilla 12 29 10 — 9 60 Czechoslovakia4415721 Antigua and 14 21 16 21 11 83 Czech Republic 88 73 46 55 83 345 Barbuda Democratic 22271528 Argentina 127 141 130 218 165 781 People’s Republic Armenia 82 126 65 88 82 443 of Korea Aruba 1 — — 1 — 2 Democratic 1,230 1,547 1,190 1,440 1,708 7,115 Australia 3,423 2,780 2,172 2,712 2,456 13,543 Republic of the Congo Austria 30 29 27 26 36 148 Denmark 22 36 24 29 38 149 Awaiting country ———— 1 1 to be added to list Djibouti 12 13 9 15 19 68 Azerbaijan 141 221 149 174 143 828 Dominica 67 50 58 55 54 284 Bahamas 161716181582Dominican 36 66 53 74 70 299 Bahrain 88 57 49 140 88 422 Republic Bangladesh 3,724 2,223 3,693 12,003 7,783 29,426 Dutch East Indies — — 1 — — 1 Barbados 137 109 88 98 58 490 EastTimor—21216 Belarus 165 181 150 290 230 1,016 Ecuador 717 632 499 478 438 2,764 Belgium 64 64 37 39 55 259 Egypt 539 646 432 834 883 3,334 Belize 13 16 9 19 11 68 El Salvador 12 8 14 16 12 62 Benin 141413122477Equatorial 25104425 Bermuda 2323212Guinea Bhutan 21 34 28 26 21 130 Eritrea 450 599 428 545 817 2,839 Bolivia 69 76 60 101 67 373 Estonia 7073173343236 Bosnia and 228 205 99 156 107 795 Ethiopia 732 1,012 651 765 821 3,981 Herzegovina Federal Republic 5,166 2,404 268 52 22 7,912 Botswana 3332385878239of Yugoslavia 395W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 396W

Successful (grants)1 Successful (grants)1 Country of origin Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total

Federation of ————— 0Libya 123 75 47 53 32 330 Rhodesia and Libya (Arab 272 264 268 413 272 1,489 Nyasaland Republic) Fiji 35 81 83 75 97 371 Libyan Arab ——— 1— 1 Finland 25 34 27 39 29 154 Republic France 259 303 232 269 300 1,363 Liechtenstein — 1 — 1 — 2 FrenchGuiana1216111Lithuania 129 123 43 87 176 558 French Polynesia ————— 0Luxembourg 3433518 Gabon 79871142 Macao Special 11 19 10 9 10 59 Gambia 243 328 315 495 488 1,869 Administrative Georgia 156 158 101 177 146 738 Region of China German 21—1—4Macedonia 129 196 130 188 141 784 Democratic (Former Yugoslav Republic Republic of) Germany 370 428 329 436 412 1,975 Madagascar 9 17 13 12 19 70 Ghana 2,969 2,751 2,495 3,976 3,599 15,790 Malawi 195 209 176 257 289 1,126 Gibraltar 15 21 18 15 19 88 Malaya 21—2—5 Gilbert Islands — — — 1 — 1 Malaysia 709 690 663 1,120 1,049 4,231 Goa 3—12—6Maldives 4217519 Greece 88 204 139 165 177 773 Mali 66371436 Greenland — — — 1 — 1 Malta 47 25 17 15 29 133 Grenada 6272476264307Marshall Islands — — — 1 — 1 Guadeloupe 2123412 Martinique 2 —3139 Guam ————— 0 Mauritania 1537117 Guatemala 16 28 25 21 9 99 Mauritius 576 835 585 973 810 3,779 Guinea 26727186100355 Mayotte 2— 1—— 3 Guinea-Bissau 9 10 6 24 14 63 Mexico 138 135 116 239 220 848 Guyana 254 282 234 333 430 1,533 Moldova, 86 137 93 134 143 593 Haiti 9778132 Republic of Honduras 13 27 16 12 30 98 Monaco —1—2710 Hong Kong 1,128 1,353 1,266 2,204 2,205 8,156 Mongolia 41 61 59 63 63 287 Hungary 107 92 46 71 212 528 Montenegro 29 10 2 9 6 56 Iceland 2 7 — 12 5 26 Montserrat 4111613 India 14,285 13,353 10,828 23,002 25,350 86,818 Morocco 501 532 523 758 708 3,022 Indonesia 178 169 119 194 192 852 Mozambique 79 65 56 91 70 361 Iran (Islamic 3,400 4,225 2,160 2,794 2,505 15,084 Myanmar 156 171 134 219 221 901 Republic of) Namibia 6378389968346 Iraq 3,733 5,029 8,456 5,166 4,182 26,566 Nationality — 2——— 2 Ireland 220 208 87 133 128 776 currently Israel 455 416 283 471 383 2,008 unknown Israeli Occupied 4174——25Nepal 826 932 906 2,021 2,259 6,944 Territories Netherlands 65 98 47 79 86 375 Italy 189 217 142 186 201 935 Netherlands 4313—11 Jamaica 2,472 3,221 2,485 2,849 2,425 13,452 Antilles Japan 183 160 111 190 146 790 New Caledonia — — 1 — — 1 Jordan 256 196 111 184 151 898 New Zealand 1,706 1,413 1,121 1,408 1,389 7,037 Kazakhstan 117 129 102 150 128 626 Nicaragua 8 10 12 13 11 54 Kenya 2,922 2,579 1,669 2,338 1,973 11,481 Niger 6419727 Kiribati 1 —1114Nigeria 5,149 5,096 3,876 5,956 6,462 26,539 Korea 24 20 6 20 9 79 Niue ——— 1— 1 Kosovo 38 27 244 1,039 1,287 2,635 Northern —1——12 Kosovo 307 111 630 211 113 1,372 Mariana Islands Kuwait 320 303 212 381 309 1,525 Northern 2——125 Kyrgyzstan 44 67 51 67 39 268 Rhodesia Lao People’s 10 8 8 17 12 55 Norway 242413121790 Democratic Nyasaland 2 1 — — 1 4 Republic Oman 34 24 31 86 85 260 Latvia 79 92 38 56 118 383 Pakistan 9,541 7,539 8,893 19,464 20,364 65,801 Lebanon 571 736 375 663 607 2,952 Palestinian 80 97 73 192 193 635 Lesotho 111716193093Authority Liberia 134 191 158 157 163 803 Panama 15726231384 397W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 398W

Successful (grants)1 Successful (grants)1 Country of origin Country of origin or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total or birth 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Total

Panama Canal ———— 1 1Tanganyika and 3636119 Zone Zanzibar Papua New 24 28 10 24 22 108 Thailand 822 991 1,056 1,955 2,162 6,986 Guinea The Syrian Arab 325 324 251 457 401 1,758 Paraguay 84711838Republic Peru 131 213 167 222 217 950 Tibet 6 2 3 14 5 30 Philippines 7,786 9,606 4,792 10,383 8,413 40,980 Timor-Leste — — — 1 — 1 Poland 467 463 220 371 1,172 2,693 Togo 99 87 49 91 75 401 Portugal 111 90 71 110 109 491 Tonga 2 10 8 8 9 37 Puerto Rico —135615Trinidad and 469 453 362 604 490 2,378 Qatar 24 27 17 43 31 142 Tobago Republic of 1 4 28 36 31 100 Tunisia 117 173 138 233 196 857 Montenegro Turkey 4,719 4,177 4,191 6,613 4,249 23,949 Republic of 162 257 357 376 282 1,434 Turkish ——— 1— 1 Serbia controlled area of Reunion 12—126Cyprus Rhodesia 41 30 24 32 16 143 Turkmenistan 10 27 24 30 37 128 Romania — 1 1 664 742 1,408 Turks and Caicos ———— 1 1 Islands Romania 544 484 339 197 124 1,688 Uganda 1,070 1,128 815 917 839 4,769 Russian 1,725 1,700 1,234 1,797 1,576 8,032 Federation Ukraine 810 1,150 655 1,060 988 4,663 Rwanda 411 581 313 296 228 1,829 Union of ———— 2 2 Myanmar Samoa —515516 United Arab 180 166 131 262 339 1,078 Sao Tome and 31—116 Emirates Principe United Kingdom 20,580 16,353 12,363 19,323 21,869 90,488 Saudi Arabia 416 504 306 768 829 2,823 United Rep of 736 577 399 525 446 2,683 Senegal 2434285155192 Tanzania Serbia and 247 174 15 4 5 445 United States of 2,854 2,535 1,975 2,736 2,562 12,662 Montenegro America Seychelles 56 62 50 73 49 290 United States ———112 Sierra Leone 1,296 1,804 1,030 960 872 5,962 Virgin Islands Singapore 155 163 150 216 186 870 Unknown— 20 8 5 3 11 47 Slovakia 136 114 49 53 155 507 officially designated Slovenia 8 11 4 4 10 37 Uruguay 241913152798 Solomon Islands 1119214 USSR 195 243 101 226 177 942 Somalia 7,584 6,416 6,447 7,336 5,271 33,054 Uzbekistan 75 87 67 112 95 436 South Africa 6,986 7,430 4,757 7,611 6,630 33,414 Vanuatu —1——23 Southern 9433524 Venezuela 112 163 118 219 197 809 Rhodesia Vietnam 184 304 282 453 439 1,662 Southern Yemen 3 2 2 — — 7 Western Sahara 1 — 2 — — 3 South Korea (Rep 247 488 365 769 658 2,527 of Korea) Yemen 568 455 354 690 583 2,650 Yemen Arab 2—— 3— 5 South West Africa 1———— 1 Republic Soviet Union —389727 Yugoslavia 280 128 94 156 79 737 (USSR) Zambia 459 623 487 777 792 3,138 Spain 148 137 106 120 135 646 Zimbabwe 2,593 5,521 5,536 7,269 5,809 26,728 Sri Lanka 4,607 6,030 2,992 4,196 4,199 22,024 373 630 308 246 209 1,766 St Christopher — 1 1—— 2 and Nevis Total 160,473 167,296 132,287 206,667 197,221 863,944 1 St. Helena — 1——— 1 The successful (grants) figures do not relate to the applications received figures in the same time period. St Kitts and Nevis 39 29 18 29 17 132 Source: St. Lucia 72 123 121 120 129 565 Local management information provided by UK Border Agency, St Vincent and 52 120 151 116 78 517 North West Region Planning and MI Team and is not a National the Grenadines Statistic. As such it should be treated as provisional and therefore subject to change. Sudan 806 650 521 862 792 3,631 Suriname 1 4 — 4 2 11 Departmental Manpower Swaziland 10 30 16 30 50 136 Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Sweden 37 60 52 50 72 271 Home Department how many staff of the UK Border Switzerland 129 97 69 100 74 469 Agency are based at each office location (a) in Scotland, Taiwan (Republic 175 176 164 269 214 998 (b) in each of the English regions, (c) in Wales, (d) in of China) Northern Ireland and (e) overseas; and what the functions Tajikistan 14 10 12 15 24 75 are of each office. [80546] 399W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 400W

Damian Green: The UK Border Agency is divided Full-time into regions and units that are based on UK-wide equivalent functions. Staff in functional areas work in offices staff located across the nations and regions of the UK as well as overseas, as set out in the following table: Midlands 18

Full-time Some of these Groups also have small numbers of staff Less equivalent in other regions that are not shown separately for data than 20 staff protection and security reasons

Border Force Functions are; Passport control, freight and people Detention Centres searching at ports, airports and international rail terminals, Olympics programme, Electronic border management. Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the North region (including Scotland and Northern 1018 Home Department which contractors provide security Ireland) for the UK Border Agency’s pre-departure accommodation Heathrow 1585 locations. [82049] South and Europe 2690 English central region 2314 Damian Green: UK Border Agency pre-departure accommodation is presently available at one site, namely Immigration Group Cedars at Pease Pottage near Crawley in West Sussex. Functions are In-country immigration control, internal The service provider for Cedars is G4S Care and Justice applications and citizenship, work permits, points based Services (UK) Ltd. system, immigration enforcement, removals and asylum processes. Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Scotland and Northern Ireland 282 Home Department how long on average individuals North East, Yorkshire and Humberside 1826 spend at UK Border Agency pre-departure accommodation North West 1558 prior to their removal. [82050] Midlands 652 South West and Wales 296 Damian Green: Under the new family returns process, London and the South East 3662 families have been accommodated initially at Tinsley House Immigration Removal Centre and since 17 August Criminality and Detention Group 2011 at Cedars pre-departure accommodation. Functions are; Detention, FNP removals, criminal The average length of time spent in pre-departure casework and criminal investigations. accommodation is not calculated as averages are subject Scotland 19 to distortions by a small number of cases with large London and the South East 1338 values. Data ranges are used instead as these give a East of England 22 more balanced view. North West 217 North East 131 Published statistics on people detained in the pre- departure accommodation at Cedars by length of detention South West 13 during the third quarter of 2011 will be published on 24 Midlands 47 November 2011 in the Immigration Statistics: July to September 2011 release; a copy of which will be placed International Group in the Library of the House. The release is also available Functions are; overseas immigration control, visa from the Home Office Science Research and Statistics issuing processes, risk and airline liaison officers. web pages at: Overseas 1709 http://homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research-statistics/ London and the South East 339 migration/migration-statistics1/ One family was accommodated at Tinsley House in Other functions its capacity as a pre-departure accommodation. The length Resource Management Group manages the UK Border of stay was 3.16 days, or 75 hours and 45 minutes. This Agency infrastructure and IT provision; management figure is based on management information, and does information and commercial and procurement not form part of our publicised statistics. activities. Human Resources; industrial relations, reward, professional standards, staff development, building security, customer strategy, complaints and Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home correspondence Intelligence; Intelligence operating Department what the longest period that an individual model and system, special cases Communications; spent in pre-departure accommodation prior to removal communications online customer services, compliance has been since May 2010. [82051] promotion, staff engagement and shared services to Home Office. Chief Executive’s Office and Strategy. London and the South East 1498 Damian Green: Pre-departure accommodation came North West 130 into effect on 1 March 2011 as part of the new family Wales 9 returns process. Under this process families have been Scotland 10 accommodated initially at Tinsley House Immigration North East 77 Removal Centre (IRC) and since its opening on 17 August 2011, solely at Cedars pre-departure accommodation. 401W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 402W

The longest period that an individual was accommodated been no instances where the UK Border Agency has not under the family returns process was at Tinsley House accepted the panel’s advice so no referrals to me have IRC. The length of stay was 3.16 days, or 75 hours and been made. 45 minutes. This figure is based on management The UK Border Agency retains the ability to detain information, and does not form part of our publicised families at the border while enquiries are made and/or statistics. pending a return flight. The panel considers the overall Published statistics on people detained in pre-departure handling of this process to assess whether detention is accommodation at Cedars by length of detention during being kept to a minimum, but it does not advise on the third quarter of 2011 will be published on 24 individual cases. November 2011 in the Immigration Statistics: July to Detention Centres: Scotland September 2011 release; a copy of which will be placed in the Library of the House. The release is also available from the Home Office Science Research and Statistics Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the webpages at: Home Department by what mode of transport individuals http://homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research-statistics/ detained prior to removal are transported from locations migration/migration-statistics1/ in Scotland to UK Border Agency facilities or departure ports in other parts of the UK. [82047] Detention Centres: Children Damian Green: Detainees are normally moved by road in escorting vehicles. All the vehicles used by the Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK Border Agency’s escorting contractor must provide Home Department whether removals of children enforced appropriate security while ensuring the welfare of detainees in Scotland are made directly from a Scottish departure is maintained. This includes making every effort to port or via a UK Border Agency facility elsewhere in minimise the amount of time they spend in vehicles. the UK. [82046] Detainees may occasionally be transferred from Scotland to departure ports in other parts of the UK by domestic Damian Green: Removals will be through a Scottish flight. point of departure where suitable flights are available. Where there are no suitable flights from Scotland removal Detention Orders: Females will occur through one of the larger UK airports. Scottish airports may be used to move a family to Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the another airport in the UK prior to removal or to Home Department (1) how many and what proportion pre-departure accommodation. of women leaving prison and issued with an IS91 Detention Order were (a) deported from and (b) permitted to stay in the UK in each of the last five years; and what Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the the (i) average and (ii) longest length of time spent in Home Department whether the Independent Family detention under an IS91 Order was for each group in Returns Panel has made any recommendations to (a) each year; [81280] the UK Border Agency or (b) her Department that a family should not be detained. [82052] (2) how many female prisoners were issued with an IS91 Detention Order within (a) one month, (b) two Damian Green: The Independent Family Returns Panel weeks, (c) one week and (d) 24 hours of their release was established in March 2011 as part of the new date from HM Prison Service in the latest period for process for managing family returns. It advises the UK which figures are available. [81281] Border Agency on the method of removal from the UK of individual families when an ensured return is necessary. Damian Green: The following table sets out the number and proportion of women leaving prison and issued The UK Border Agency no longer detains families in with an IS91, who were removed from the UK or who immigration removal centres as part of ensured returns were allowed to remain. The table also provides information (other than, exceptionally, for high-risk or criminal on the time spent in detention. Please note that data cases). Since August, the options for ensured return prior to 2009 is not available. include (but are not limited to) holding families for a short period in pre-departure accommodation, known 2009 2010 20111 as Cedars. Total number of women issued with 4204 3703 3130 Plans are drawn up by the UK Border Agency and an IS91 referred to the panel. After discussion with the UK Border Agency, the panel advises on whether the plan (including any proposal to use Cedars) represents an Number of women issued with an 509 349 300 IS91 who meet the criteria for appropriate method of return which takes sufficient deportation account of the safeguarding and welfare needs of the Of those: children. The panel may advise that the plan be amended and there is a presumption that this advice will be Removed accepted. Number 233 152 166 Percentage 46 44 55 If, exceptionally, the UK Border Agency does not accept the panel’s advice, the case will be referred to me, as the Minister for Immigration, for a decision. The Allowed to remain: panel will include in its annual report any instances Number 18 21 17 where its advice is not accepted. To date, there have Percentage 4 6 6 403W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 404W

Damian Green: The total number of visas issued to 2009 2010 20111 former Gurkhas and their dependants to enter the UK since 2009 is 9,965. Cases ongoing: Applicant types 2009 2010 12011 Number 255 176 117 Percentage 50 50 39 Former Gurkha 1,628 1,116 358 Dependants of former 1,939 3,744 1,180 Of those removed from the UK: Gurkhas 1 January to June 2011. Average length of time in detention 63 56 52 Note: (days) These data are based on management information. They are provisional Longest length of time in detention 723 876 146 and subject to change. (days) Human Trafficking: Telephone Services Of those allowed to remain in the UK: Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Average length of time in detention 121 100 51 Home Department pursuant to the answer of 7 November (days) 2011, Official Report, column 54W,on human trafficking, Longest length of time in detention 349 344 154 what costs were associated with the operation of the (days) Metropolitan Police’s trafficking victim helpline in (a) 1 YTD—January to October 2011 October 2011 and (b) each financial year since it was Establishing the time period within the release date created. [81845] from HMP Prison Service in which a female was issued with an IS91 would require the analysis of a large Damian Green: The Metropolitan Police Service’s volume of electronic records, which would incur a trafficking free phone line cost £128.40 to install and disproportionate cost. has been operational since April 2011. The first year costs are currently calculated at £189 or £15.75 per Drugs: Dogs month. Staff costs are nominal. Approximately 40 calls have been received on the line since April, of which five John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the have been confirmed as victims of trafficking and referred Home Department how many sniffer dogs have been into the National Referral Mechanism (NRM). used by UK Border Agency staff in searching for heroin and cocaine at UK borders in each of the last three Immigrants: Detainees years. [82258] Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: The UK Border Agency (UKBA) Home Department how many no-notice removals of currently has 56 dogs trained to detect drugs, including failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants were heroin and cocaine. We also have a further three drugs undertaken by the UK Border Agency in each of the dogs in training, totalling 59 dogs. The number of drugs last 12 months. [82094] detector dogs fluctuates throughout each year due to things such as ill health or other forced retirements. The Damian Green: Individuals are given at least 72 hours current number of dogs in operation is representative of notice of the time and date on which they will be the number of dogs UKBA has had available at any one removed from the United Kingdom except in port cases time over the last three years. where removal can take place on the same day as Entry Clearances: Overseas Students arrival. Detailed guidance on removal notice periods is in chapter 60 of the Enforcement Instructions and Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Guidance and can be found on the UK Border Agency the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 17 website at: October 2011, Official Report, columns 648-9W, on http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ entry clearances, what guidance she has issued to specialist enforcement colleges on the differing levels of fees required for accreditation The number of same day port removals undertaken required by the UK Border Agency. [81857] in each of the last 12 months could be obtained only by the detailed examination of individual records at Damian Green: We have brought in new requirements disproportionate cost. The total number of quarterly for sponsors to apply for an educational oversight inspection port removals, however, is published within the Before to one of the public review bodies. The fees are determined Entry tables as part of the Immigration Statistics release by the bodies themselves and are broadly set at a level to which is available from the Library of the House and on cover their costs. These bodies are providing guidance the Home Office website. The Before Entry tables for to colleges on the inspection process and the level of fee April 2011 to June 2011 can be found at: required. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- statistics/research-statistics/immigration-asylum-research/ Gurkhas immigration-tabs-q2-2011v2/before-entry-q2-11-tabs

Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many (a) former Gurkhas and Home Department how many people in detention on (b) dependents of former Gurkhas have been allowed immigration-related grounds have been convicted of a to enter and reside in the UK since May 2009. [82065] criminal offence in the UK. [82107] 405W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 406W

Damian Green: In 2010, for an average month, there Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for the were approximately 635 foreign national offenders detained Home Department how many police officers were employed in prison beyond the end of their sentence while deportation in each age group in each police force in England and was considered. In addition, for an average month, Wales in each of the last 10 years. [82255] there were approximately 1,135 foreign national offenders detained in immigration removal centres. Nick Herbert: The available information, placed in the House Library, shows the number of police officers Immigration that were employed in each age group in each police force area in England and Wales, 2002-03 to 2010-11 (headcount). These figures were not collected by the Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Office prior to 2002-03. Home Department what recent estimate she has made of the number of non-UK EU nationals who reside in Written Questions: Government Responses the UK. [73713] Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: The subject raised in the hon. Member’s Home Department when she plans to answer Question question is a matter for the UK Statistics Authority. 71304 on Humberside Police and the East Riding of I have asked the authority to reply. Yorkshire Council tabled on 7 September 2011 for answer on 14 September 2011. [74722] Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics Nick Herbert [holding answer 18 October 2011]: I (ONS), I have been asked to respond to your Parliamentary refer my right hon. Friend to my answer of 17 October Question to Secretary of State for the Home Department, asking 2011, Official Report, column 650W. what recent estimate she has made of the number of non-UK EU nationals who reside in the UK. [73713] The most recent estimate of the number of non-UK EU nationals who reside in the UK is 2,003,000 with a margin of FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE error of +/- 61,000. This estimate, along with other published Iran: Nuclear Weapons Population by Country of Birth and Nationality estimates, is based on the Annual Population Survey and relates to the 12 month period of January to December 2010. These can be found on the Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for ONS website, table 2.1 & 2.2 at: Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference- he has made of the report of the International Atomic tables.html?edition=tcm%3A77-222711 Energy Authority on Iran’s development of nuclear The margin of error refers to the 95 per cent confidence missiles. [82067] interval and is a measure of the uncertainty associated with making inferences from a sample. Alistair Burt: The UK fully supports the work of the director general and of the International Atomic Energy Members: Correspondence Agency (IAEA) in producing this important report. They have handled a very sensitive issue with care and rigour, and have worked diligently to verify and validate Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for the the information that the report draws on. In response to Home Department when she plans to reply to the letter the report, the IAEA Board of Governors passed a from the right hon. Member for Rotherham of resolution expressing its 21 August 2011 about Sergei Magnitsky. [76806] “deep and increasing concern about the unresolved issues regarding the Iranian nuclear program”; Damian Green: A reply to the right hon. Member’s these are concerns we share. letter was sent on 15 November 2011. The report itself clearly indicates that Iran has failed to address the IAEA’s “serious concerns” about the Police: Manpower “credible” information available to it that “indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device”. Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many police officers (a) in each It also presents evidence that provides a compelling picture age group, (b) of each sex and (c) of each ethnicity of Iranian work on nuclear weapons technologies—not were recruited to each police force in each of the last only up to 2003 but also beyond—and work on the 10 years. [81548] continuation and expansion of its uranium enrichment programme, in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions. Finally, the report clearly documents Iran’s repeated Nick Herbert: Age is collected separately to ethnicity failures to co-operate with the agency. Iran must cease and gender. The available information placed in the its attempts to deflect the legitimate concerns of the House Library, shows the number of police officers that international community and co-operate with the agency, were employed within each age group in each police fully and without delay, to resolve them. force in England and Wales, 2002-03 to 2010-11 (headcount). The available information also shows the Jordan: Foreign Policy number of police officers within each police force by ethnicity and gender, 2002-03 to 2010-11 (full-time Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for equivalents). These figures were not collected by the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the aims and Home Office prior to 2002-03. objectives are of UK policy towards Jordan. [81915] 407W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 408W

Alistair Burt: The UK’s policy towards Jordan reflects Alistair Burt: The Prime Minister spoke to his Libyan the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s priorities of counterpart, Abdurrahim al-Kib, on 5 November. The Safeguarding Britain’s national security; building Britain’s Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth prosperity and supporting British nationals around the Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond world. (Yorks) (Mr Hague), spoke to Mr al-Kib on 17 November. The Arab Spring has shown that increased political These discussions touched on a number of issues, including participation by citizens and greater economic opportunity the security situation in Libya, medical treatment for offering them a greater stake in their state is the surest injured Libyans, unfreezing of assets, preparing for route to long-term regional stability. To this end the UK elections, human rights and making progress on crimes continues to support the implementation of political committed by the former regime, including the police and economic reforms in Jordan, including through the investigations into the death of WPC Yvonne Fletcher, Arab Partnership. Additionally the UK works closely Lockerbie and Gaddafi’s support to the IRA. The UK with Jordan on issues of mutual interest, including has been providing considerable assistance in stabilisation regional foreign policy, counter-terrorism and defence. to the new Libyan authorities, and in the security sector since Mr al-Kib’s appointment. In support of building Britain’s prosperity, on 15 November the Prime Minister and King Abdullah agreed to launch a UK-Jordan Economic Dialogue; which will seek ways to support both the Jordanian DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER economy and the UK’s prosperity agenda. Parliamentary Privilege

Lebanon: Foreign Policy Sadiq Khan: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister when he plans to bring forward proposals on (a) funding for Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for 200 all-postal primaries, (b) the recall of hon. Members Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the aims and and (c) prevention of the misuse of Parliamentary objectives are of UK policy towards Lebanon. [81914] privilege. [81991]

Alistair Burt: The UK’s policy towards Lebanon Mr Harper: The Coalition programme for government reflects the FCO’s priorities of Safeguarding Britain’s says that all-postal primaries will be “targeted at seats national security; building Britain’s prosperity and which have not changed hands for many years”. The supporting British nationals around the world. boundary changes legislated for earlier in the year will have implications for almost all existing constituencies Working to reduce conflict, the UK’s aim is to support and we will need to take this into account when considering a stable, independent and sovereign Lebanon. To this how to take forward this policy. In relation to the right end we have increased our assistance to the Lebanese to recall MPs, we will announce the details of our army and police, as key institutions supporting Lebanese proposals before the Christmas recess. On parliamentary stability. privilege, the Leader of the House of Commons, my The UK continues to believe the best way to achieve right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire peace and stability in Lebanon and the wider region is (Sir George Young), plans to update the House on the through the full implementation of United Nations preparations for a draft Bill on parliamentary privilege Security Council Resolutions 1559 and 1701, including before the Christmas recess. respect of Lebanese sovereignty by other countries in the region. The UK also fully supports the Special Tribunal for Lebanon in its work to end impunity for WALES political assassinations in Lebanon. It is important Lebanon fulfils its obligations to the Tribunal by paying Enterprise Zones its portion of the approved budget as the Prime Minister emphasised during his meeting with Lebanese Prime 12. John Howell: To ask the Secretary of State for Minister Najib Miqati on 7 November. Wales what recent discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and Ministers in the Welsh Government on Lebanon remains a business hub for the region and cross-border economic implications of the development a strong consumer economy, with UK exports at of enterprise zones. [81791] £398.7 million for 2010, on a par with those to Kuwait, and significantly higher than Jordan. We continue to Mrs Gillan: I have regular discussions with ministerial explore the potential for UK companies to play a colleagues and with the First Minister on various issues, greater role in Lebanon’s ambitious plans to boost their including enterprise zones in Wales. It is vital that infrastructure sector. businesses investing in Wales are given the same or even We continue to ensure that embassy has plans to better competitive advantages as businesses in places support for British nationals in Lebanon in place, these just across the border such as Bristol and Merseyside. plans are well exercised and has the confidence of British Exports citizens in Lebanon as well as Ministers in the UK. Libya: Foreign Relations 14. Jonathan Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions she has had with the First Minister on Welsh exports to non-EU countries. [81793] Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales, my he has had with Abdel Rahim El-Keib; and what right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham assistance he has offered to the National Transitional (Mrs Gillan), has regular discussions with the First Council since his election. [81983] Minister on a range of issues including Welsh exports. 409W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 410W

I am very pleased that recent figures showed an Mr David Jones: Between May 2010 and 10 November increase in Welsh exports to non-EU countries of 44.5%. 2011 the Wales Office has issued 277 press releases and This is excellent news and testament to the hard work of of these, 250 are bilingual. The remaining 27 are awaiting businesses across Wales. translation.

Economic Growth SCOTLAND 15. Jessica Morden: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Visits Abroad Wales what recent assessment she has made of the state of the Welsh economy; and if she will make a statement. [81794] Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland in how many international visits (a) the Secretary of Mr David Jones: The economy across the UK is State, (b) the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State starting to return to growth, despite recent disappointing and (c) senior staff in his Department have participated unemployment figures in Wales. in 2010-11; what the (i) cost and (ii) purpose was of We have had to make difficult decisions in order to each visit; how many international visits are planned to reduce the massive deficit that we inherited but our (A) the Americas, (B) the Middle East and (C) Western deficit reduction plan has proved the right course of Europe; and what estimate he has made of the cost of action with the UK’s AAA rating recently being reaffirmed. planned future international visits. [82189] David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland, Departmental Press Releases my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Michael Moore), and I have Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales undertaken one international visit each in 2010-11 with how many press releases her Department has issued one further trip planned by the Secretary of State to since May 2010; and how many of these were bilingual. Brazil at the end of this month. Information requested [67787] is detailed in the following table:

Trip Minister and Group Purpose Total cost (£)

USA and Canada 3-9 April David Mundell Attend Tartan week events and promote Scottish 2,685.71 2011 businesses. Brussels 14-15 June 2011 Michael Moore (plus two) Meetings with European Commission, MEPs and 841.19 businesses. Brazil (Planned) 26 Michael Moore (plus two) Lead Scottish trade delegation, meeting businesses, 1— November-1 December 2011 Brazilian Government and others. 1 Costs being finalised.

Jobcentre Plus: Closures Mrs Villiers [holding answer 10 November 2011]: We support the inclusion of aviation in the EU Emissions Trading System from next year and we will continue to Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland work to secure global solutions on aviation emissions. what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State This approach provides an important way to ensure for Work and Pensions on proposed closures of that the aviation sector takes strong, cost-effective action Jobcentre Plus offices in Scotland. [81414] to address its climate change impacts while avoiding competitive disadvantage to the UK. David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, In August the Government published its response to Roxburgh and Selkirk (Michael Moore) and I are in the Committee on Climate Change report on reducing CO emissions from UK aviation. This included an contact with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, 2 assessment of the potential of a number of possible my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and policy options to reduce aviation CO emissions, along Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), on a range of 2 with an estimate of their costs, out to 2050. This and issues relating to the Government’s welfare reform agenda, other evidence gathered in response to our scoping which includes ensuring that Jobcentre Plus continues document on developing a sustainable framework for to meet local needs while delivering value for money to UK aviation will inform the draft framework which we the taxpayer. intend to publish for consultation in March 2012.

Aviation: Scotland TRANSPORT Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Aviation: Exhaust Emissions Transport what information her Department holds on the number of people who have flown from (a) Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Aberdeen and (b) Edinburgh to overseas destinations what progress has been made on steps to reduce carbon via Heathrow airport in each of the last three years. emissions attributable to aviation. [R] [79785] [81204] 411W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 412W

Mrs Villiers: In 2009 it is estimated that approximately Thameslink Rolling Stock Project 150,000 people flew from Aberdeen to an overseas £ million destination via Heathrow and 340,000 flew to an overseas Cost incurred October 2011 to destination from Edinburgh via Heathrow. A similar Costs incurred June 2010 to March 2012 number would have made the same journey in the other to May 2010 September 2011 forecast direction, flying from an overseas destination to Aberdeen Arup 4.0 1.7 0.5 or Edinburgh via Heathrow. Reliable estimates are not Freshfields 6.6 1.9 1.3 available for 2008 or 2010. PWC 2.5 0.9 0.6 Interfleet 1.5 0.1 0 Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Booz 0.5 0.3 0.1 Transport how many people have flown between Heathrow Total 15.1 4.9 2.5 airport and (a) Edinburgh and (b) Aberdeen in each of the last three years. [81205] Thameslink Programme £ million Mrs Villiers: The figures requested are given in the Cost incurred October 2011 to following table: Costs incurred June 2010 to March 2012 to May 2010 September 2011 forecast Number of passengers flying between Heathrow and Edinburgh or Aberdeen airport, 2008-10 Atkins 0.5 0.1 0.1 2008 2009 2010 EC 0.2 0.1 0.25 Harris Heathrow to 1,319,000 1,306,000 1,245,000 SDG 0 0.1 0.03 Edinburgh Nichols 1.4 0.3 0.04 Heathrow to 656,000 641,000 618,000 Aberdeen Bovis 0.7 0.4 0.09 Lend Lease BMI Consulting Eversheds 0.07 0.01 0 Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Willis 0.036 0.004 0.01 Transport (1) what discussions she has had on the Total 2.906 1.014 0.52 effect on passengers of the sale of BMI; [80519] IEP Programme (2) whether she has discussed with (a) BMI and (b) £ million British Airways the future provision of flights between Cost incurred Edinburgh and London Heathrow. [80521] June 2010 to October 2011 Costs incurred September to March 2012 Mrs Villiers: The possible sale of BMI is a commercial to May 2010 2011 forecast matter for discussion between BMI’s owner Lufthansa Barkers HR 0.016 0 0 and prospective purchasers. The Secretary of State for Advertising Transport received a factual briefing from British Airways Capita 0.3 0.008 0 following that airline’s public announcement of its interest Resourcing in purchasing BMI. Decisions about which air services Clifford 0.002 0 0 operate from which UK airports are a commercial Chance matter for airlines. Congress 0.012 0 0 Centre Charities Ernst and 0.200 Young Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for First Class 0.006 0 0 Transport what grants her Department made to charitable Partnership organisations in each of the last five years. [79074] Freshfields 5.6 1.0 1.1 Jim Standen 0.01 0 0 Norman Baker: The Department does not hold Associates information on which of its suppliers are charitable Manpower 0 0.13 0.25 organisations, I therefore regret that information on the Mott 11.8 0.48 0.70 amounts of grant paid to charitable organisations is not MacDonald MWB 0.002 0 0 available except at disproportionate cost. Business Exchange Departmental Consultants Nichols 3.1 0.09 0.02 PWC 2.5 0.16 0.8 Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for QCs 0 0.01 0.01 Transport which consultants and advisers her Department Reed 0.06 0.03 0 has employed in respect of the (a) Thameslink programme, Employment (b) Thameslink rolling stock procurement and (c) SDG 1.2 0.13 0 Intercity Express programme; how much she has budgeted Willis 0.01 0.005 0.009 in respect of each such contractor; and how much each Total 24.81 2.04 2.88 contractor has invoiced to date. [76031]

Mrs Villiers [holding answer 21 October 2011]: The Detailed spending plans for years beyond the financial information requested can be found as follows. year 2011-12 have not yet been agreed. 413W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 414W

Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Department for Transport Agencies and NDPBs using GPC if she will place in the Library a list of all reports that Agency/ALB 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 consultants working for her Department have written in Northern Yes Yes Yes respect of (a) the Intercity Express Programme, (b) Lighthouse Thameslink rolling stock procurement and (c) Crossrail. Board [76496] Trinity House No No No Lighthouse Mrs Villiers: The Department operates a policy of Service openness and transparency. Consequently, relevant HS2 n/a n/a No information relating to (a) the Intercity Express n/a = Did not exist for the year in question Programme, (b) Thameslink rolling stock procurement and (c) Crossrail is available on the Department’s or Crossrail Ltd’s websites, the links to which are provided Motor Vehicles: Insurance as follows. The Department and Crossrail Ltd will continue to publish relevant documentation on their Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for respective websites as the projects develop over time. Transport what steps her Department plans to take in http://www.dft.gov.uk/topics/crossrail respect of the cost of motor insurance for young http://www.dft.gov.uk/topics/iep drivers; and when she expects to implement such plans. [79628] http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/thameslink http://www.crossrail.co.uk Mike Penning: I met a range of stakeholders including East Coast Railway Line: Disability the Association of British Insurers and the driver training industry in June to consider how young people can best acquire the skills and behaviours needed to be safe and Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport responsible drivers and therefore reduce their risk to what steps her Department has taken to fully implement insurers. Officials continue to work with them and the the Persons with Reduced Mobility Technical Specifications insurance industry to evidence a wide range of proposals for Interoperability requirements on rolling stock used for my consideration, ahead of formal consultation by the East Coast rail franchise. [81926] around spring 2012. Norman Baker: It will be the responsibility of the The Government have already taken other steps to operator at the relevant date to ensure that all rolling help manage rising insurance costs. These include the stock in use on the East Coast franchise is accessible by introduction of the continuous insurance enforcement the legal deadline of 1 January 2020. scheme to tackle uninsured driving, plans to allow insurers access to the DVLA driver database to check Refurbishment of the current rolling stock has seen motoring convictions to reduce fraud, and measures to the fitment of priority seating, wheelchair spaces and tackle legal costs through abolishing the recoverability accessible toilets. Installation of audio/visual passenger of Conditional Fee Agreements’ success fees and after information systems is the main area outstanding. The the event insurance, and banning referral fees. Intercity Express Programme fleet that is to be built for this route will be constructed to modern access standards. Private Finance Initiative Government Procurement Card Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (a) (b) (c) Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for what the cost, date of commencement and Transport which non-departmental public bodies and duration is of each private finance initiative contract agencies for which her Department has responsibility managed by her Department. [82210] made use of the Government Procurement Card in (a) Norman Baker: Department for Transport PFI project 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10. [73489] details are incorporated into the HM Treasury Signed Norman Baker: The information is as follows. Deals List and published at: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ppp_pfi_stats.htm Department for Transport Agencies and NDPBs using GPC The Treasury website itemisation includes details of Agency/ALB 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 project: capital values, date of financial close, operational DSA Yes Yes Yes period of the contract and the annual unitary charge HA Yes Yes Yes details indicates the year each contract became operational. MCA Yes Yes Yes The following projects have been awarded since the GCDA Yes Yes Yes HM Treasury Signed Deals List was last updated: VOSA Yes Yes Yes VCA Yes Yes Yes Commencement Duration Cost DVLA Yes Yes Yes Project date (years) (£ million) British Yes Yes Yes Cambridgeshire street July 2011 25 234.5 Transport lighting Police Croydon and July 2011 25 335.0 Passenger Yes Yes Yes Lewisham street Focus lighting Directly n/a n/a No Knowsley street July 2011 25 166.6 Operated lighting Railways 415W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 416W

measures in the Intercity West Coast franchise when Commencement Duration Cost Project date (years) (£ million) tenders are invited in the new year.

Nottingham street September 25 235.8 Railways: Disability lighting 2010 Northamptonshire November 25 333.5 street lighting 2011 Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Oldham street lighting July 2011 25 154.6 how many rail carriages (a) have been upgraded to Rochdale street July 2011 25 153.3 meet with and (b) do not comply with the Persons with lighting Reduced Mobility Technical Specifications for Interoperability requirements. [81927] Public Transport: Finance Norman Baker: Information on which rail vehicles Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport have been built or fully refurbished to modern accessibility what recent assessment her Department has made of standards is available on the Department for Transport’s the potential effect of her Department’s spending reduction website at: for public transport on people with a low income. http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/transportforyou-access- [78940] rail-vehicles-pubs-rva/accessibilitystandards.xls Approximately 6,500 heavy rail and 3,500 non-heavy Norman Baker: Buses are most heavily used by people rail (metro, tram and underground) vehicles (54% and on the lowest incomes. No cuts were made this year to 78% of each fleet respectively) remain in service which the subsidy paid to bus operators and the Government pre-date the introduction of modern access standards believe the 20% cut from April 2012 is manageable in 1998. These will need to be made accessible or given the reductions to budgets elsewhere. The Government withdrawn by 1 January 2020. have made a commitment to providing free local bus travel for older and disabled people to ensure that no Railways: Economic Situation one who is older or disabled in England need be prevented from bus travel by cost alone. 40% of concessionary journeys are made by people with a household income John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for of less than £10,000. Transport what recent assessment she has made of the effect of economic conditions in the Eurozone on the While there is no statutory obligation to carry out a cost of financing the (a) Thameslink rolling stock and formal assessment of the impact of spending decisions (b) Intercity Express Programme contract. [R] [81852] on people on low incomes, Ministers carefully considered this during the spending review process. Mrs Villiers: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of Railway Stations: Tees Valley 31 October 2011, Official Report, column 418W.

Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Railways: Electrification Transport whether there are any plans to close railway ticket offices in Teesside. [80766] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent work her Department has undertaken on Mrs Villiers: An independent study by Sir Roy McNulty the proposed electrification of the railway line between on the value for money of the railways recommended Leeds and York via Harrogate. [76495] closure of ticket offices at category E stations. The aim of the study was to examine the overall cost Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport has not structure of all elements of the rail sector to identify the recently undertaken work on electrification of the railway options for improving value for money to both passengers line between Leeds and York via Harrogate. and taxpayers, while continuing to expand capacity and drive up passenger satisfaction with the railway. Railways: Franchises Government are currently considering the findings of this independent report but no decisions have yet been Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for made. Transport what the cost to the public purse has been of the railway franchises operated by (a) Virgin Rail Railway Stations: Standards Group and (b) West Coast Trains. [81014]

Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker: Subsidy and premium payments in Transport whether she has considered giving greater respect of all rail franchises are published annually by powers to rail companies in taking ownership of the the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) in National Rail upkeep of rail stations for the purposes of ensuring Trends (NRT). Copies of NRT are available in the they are maintained to a high standard. [81035] Library of the House and on the ORR’s website at: www.rail-reg.gov.uk Mrs Villiers: A package of measures has been developed with the rail industry to transfer responsibility for repairs, Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport maintenance and renewal at stations to franchised operators. how much her Department has spent on (a) solicitors The new Greater Anglia franchise, awarded on 20 and (b) consultants in connection with negotiations October 2011, is the first to adopt many of these new with bidders for the Greater Anglia rail franchise since measures. We expect to implement the full package of May 2010. [81060] 417W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 418W

Mrs Villiers [holding answer 14 November 2011]: Mrs Villiers [holding answer 14 November 2011]: In Since May 2010 the Department has spent the following making decisions on franchise requirements and rail in connection with the Greater Anglia franchise: capacity, the Government consider value for money, affordability and wider transport, economic and £ environmental objectives. (a) Legal advisor 155,000 (b) Technical advisor 270,000 Shipping Note: These figures exclude VAT. Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport with reference to the conclusion of her Department’s Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport National Policy Statement for Ports published in October how much her Department has spent on (a) solicitors 2011 that coastal shipping is expected to grow, what and (b) consultants for work related to the (i) East estimate her Department has made of the potential Coast and (ii) Cross Country rail franchise in the last 12 increase in such shipping. [81222] months. [81195] Mike Penning: The Department has not undertaken Mrs Villiers: (a) In the last 12 months the Department specific forecasts of coastal shipping but we would has spent the following amounts on solicitors (external) expect it to grow at least in line with growth in the in connection with the franchises listed in the following traffic sectors carried. table: Transport £ Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (i) East Coast 0 when her Department plans to publish a National Policy (ii) Cross country 0 Statement for national networks. [81218] (b) In the last 12 months the Department has spent Justine Greening: We plan to designate the National the following amounts on consultants in connection Networks National Policy Statement by the end of with the franchises listed in the following table; 2012. £ Transport: Passengers (i) East Coast 0 (ii) Cross country 0 Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) how much funding was allocated to passenger The above figures do not include any project costs transport executives by (a) her Department and (b) which are integrated and impact the franchises detailed other bodies in 2010-11; [81953] above. (2) how much funding was allocated by passenger transport executives in 2010-11. [81955] Railways: Snow and Ice Norman Baker: In 2010-11 the Department for Transport John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for allocated £566.16 million to passenger transport executives, Transport at how many locations on the third-rail electrified either directly or via their respective integrated transport network conductor rail heating has been installed since authorities. This includes funding for local major schemes 1 January 2011; and how many further locations are and rail support but does not include the £70 million planned for installation by 31 December 2012. [76800] the Department provides to Merseytravel for the operation of the devolved Merseyrail network. Mrs Villiers [holding answer 26 October 2011]: Network The following table gives a breakdown of this figure Rail is rolling out an extensive programme of conductor by passenger transport executive: rail heating across London and the south-east. The current programme entails the installation of approximately Passenger transport executive Funding allocated (£000) 80 km of conductor rail heating spanning 421 locations Centro (West Midlands) 37,584 across the Kent, Sussex and Wessex routes. Greater Manchester PTE 260,744 42 locations were fitted in the first phase of the Merseytravel 39,820 programme in 2010. Approximately 85% of the 421 Metro (West Yorkshire) 94,130 locations will be completed by 1 December 2011 with Nexus (Tyne and Wear) 85,138 the remaining locations being completed by January South Yorkshire PTE 48,745 2012. Total 566,161

Railways: Standards While some of the variation in the above table will be due to the differing geographical sizes of the passenger transport executive areas (as well as other factors), Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport funding for local major schemes has a large effect. For what her policy is on allowing railway operating companies instance, Greater Manchester received £137 million in to reduce capacity and increase over-crowding; and if 2010-11 for local major schemes while four of the other she will make a statement. [80170] passenger transport executives received no money. 419W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 420W

The Department does not hold information on funding The French Minister of Ecology, Sustainable allocated to passenger transport executives from other Development, Transport and Housing wrote to the bodies. UK’s Secretary for State for Transport. My officials have met with the French Defence Attaché to the UK, Tugboats their Permanent Representatives to the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) in London, as well as attending the Anglo-French Safety of Navigation Group Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (AFSONG) and the Anglo-French Accident Technical what consultation her Department undertook with (a) Group (AFATG) meetings; ETVs were discussed at maritime users, (b) local authorities and (c) other both meetings. organisations on its proposal to remove emergency towing vessels. [80627] US Federal Aviation Administration: US Department of Transportation Mike Penning: Because the decision was taken and announced as part of the comprehensive spending review, Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for it would not have been appropriate to launch any formal Transport whether she has any plans to meet officials consultation. from the (a) US Federal Aviation Administration or (b) US Department of Transportation. [80153] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment her Department has made of the possible Mrs Villiers [holding answer 14 November 2011]: I safety implications for shipping of the withdrawal of refer the right hon. Member to the answer I gave the emergency towing vehicles in relation to the Clair Ridge hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith), on 8 November oil field development project. [81219] 2011, Official Report, column 187W. Mike Penning: No specific assessment of the withdrawal of emergency towing vessels (ETVs) has been carried out in relation to the Clair Ridge oil field development HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION project. The licensing regime for offshore exploration activities Telephone Tapping includes the requirement for the licensee to prepare a full safety case in relation to their activity. This includes Karl McCartney: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, an assessment of the risk to safety of navigation in the Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of area and proposals for appropriate mitigation measures. Commons Commission, whether there have been any Since 1 October 2011, the Scotland Office has been occasions when (a) telephones and (b) emails and data responsible for leading efforts to secure a long-term held on computers on the Parliamentary Estate have replacement for the ETV service in waters around Scotland been (i) illegally and (ii) legally monitored in the last surrounding the Northern and Western Isles. five years. [80589]

Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport John Thurso: There is no record of illegal access to what assessment her Department has made of the safety telephones or emails and data held on computers on the implications for shipping of the withdrawal of emergency parliamentary estate in the last five years. towing vehicles covering the English Channel. [81260] Some telephone calls, for example to the PICT service desk, are monitored for training and quality purposes, Mike Penning: We are satisfied that there is sufficient and the caller is always informed of this. Otherwise, commercial tug capacity to provide an acceptable response there has been no monitoring of phone calls of Members, to disabled vessels that break down in the vicinity of the Members’ staff or House staff during the past five Dover strait and the south-west approaches. years. Shipping is not risk free, but the world has moved on There has been no monitoring of Members’ emails considerably since emergency towing vessels were and data in the past five years. Only in extraordinary introduced. Improvements in ship technology, navigation circumstances, under the explicit authority of Mr Speaker, and safety systems, together with the advent of new would any such monitoring take place. ship routing and reporting measures, and advances in The situation as regards emails and data held on the shore-based surveillances, mean less risk of vessels computers of House staff and Members’ staff is the grounding and potentially polluting our waters. same as for emails and data of employees in any organisation: the information is protected under the Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Data Protection Act, but the employer has the right to Transport what representations (a) Ministers and (b) monitor or investigate the contents of emails if there is officials in her Department have received from the a legitimate reason to do so. At the request of the French Government on the withdrawal of emergency Members concerned, emails and data of three staff of towing vehicles covering the English Channel. [81261] Members have been monitored in the past 18-months; records are not available for the period before that. It is Mike Penning: The French Government have made unusual for the contents of emails and data of House representations both at ministerial level and at official staff to be monitored, though there have been occasions level in relation to the UK’s decision to withdraw within the past five years. When this occurs, it is done in provision of publicly funded emergency towing vessel accordance with the conditions set out in paragraph (ETV) services. 7.6.7 of the Staff Handbook. 421W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 422W

ATTORNEY-GENERAL INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Democratic Republic of Congo Serious Fraud Office Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if he has any plans to visit Mr Sheerman: To ask the Attorney-General (1) how the Democratic Republic of Congo. [80855] many (a) police officers and (b) support staff were employed by the Serious Fraud Office in each of the last Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International five years; [81943] Development routinely publish details of visits through (2) what proportion of Serious Fraud Office investigations press releases unless there are security issues which proceed to (a) charges being made and (b) conviction preclude such disclosure. Where external bodies are in each of the last five years. [81944] involved the information would be provided when available unless, once again, there are security issues which would The Attorney-General: The SFO does not employ any restrict the timing and extent of disclosure. police officers. SFO investigative staff come from a Nicaragua range of different backgrounds and some may have previously worked as police officers. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Staff numbers for non-operational roles in each of International Development whether he has any plans the last five years, as at 31 March are: to visit Nicaragua. [79948]

Staff (number) Mr Andrew Mitchell: No. Currently as of 18 November 2011 61 2010-11 64 2009-10 57 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS 2008-09 141 2007-08 54 Agriculture: Capital Allowances 1 A management approved voluntary early retirement scheme exercise took place in March 2009 which may have impacted these figures Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for The SFO receives hundreds of referrals from all Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent sources, including the general public every year. The discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the SFO accepts only the most complex and difficult cases Exchequer on changes to capital allowances in the as shown in their published selection criteria which can agricultural sector. [81122] be found online at; Mr Paice: The Secretary of State for Environment, http://www.sfo.gov.uk/victims/individual-victims/can-i-report- Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the a-fraud-or-corruption-directly-to-the-sfo.aspx Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), has had no and refers the rest to other law enforcement organisations discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my or regulators as appropriate. Records are not maintained right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), on the number which are referred to other public on changes to capital allowances in the agricultural organisations. Cases that are accepted undergo an intense sector. three-month, focused research into the allegations made. At the end of this period the SFO reviews the case in Departmental Judicial Review depth to establish the most suitable way of taking it forward—for example, a full criminal investigation or Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, civil recovery action. Approximately 10% of cases are Food and Rural Affairs what applications for judicial stopped at this stage. All charging decisions are made in review have been made against her Department (a) in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors. the last Parliament and (b) since May 2010; whether Once defendants have been charged, the case is very each such application (i) succeeded, (ii) failed and (iii) unlikely to be stopped. This has happened only once in remains pending; what legal costs were incurred by her the last four years. Department for each such application; in each failed application whether she applied for costs against the All active investigations in the SFO undergo case applicant and whether they were (A) awarded and (B) reviews at least quarterly. This ensures the investigation paid; whether her Department (1) paid for and (2) into allegations remain focussed. Cases being prosecuted offered to pay for the legal costs incurred by each such are kept regularly under review in accordance with the applicant; and what the total cost to the public purse Code for Crown Prosecutors. was of payment of the legal costs for each such applicant. Conviction rates in the last five years [80731] Percentage of defendants found guilty Richard Benyon: Since May 2010, 10 applications have been made for judicial review against the Department: 2010-11 84 one was successful, four failed, two were settled and 2009-10 90 three remain pending. 2008-09 78 2007-08 68 The legal cost (of counsel) incurred for each to date is 2006-07 58 as follows—fee notes are outstanding in many of these cases and the figures do not include estimates for accruals. 423W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 424W

Departmental Meetings £ Case 1 450 Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Case 2 0 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many meetings Case 3 20,885 she has had with representatives of (a) social enterprises, Case 4 870 (b) charities, (c) large private sector businesses and (d) Case 5 0 small and medium-sized private sector businesses since Case 6 35,812 May 2010; and if she will make a statement. [75707] Case 7 1,780 Case 8 480 Richard Benyon: We do not keep records for the Case 9 1,085 categories used in this question. However between April Case 10 4,970 2011 to date, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Costs were applied for in each of the four failed Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), has met with applications, awarded in three, and have been paid in more than 13 organisations with charitable links and two (so far). nine representatives of private companies. The Department did not pay for, or offer to pay, the Quarterly returns of all ministerial meetings are published costs of any of the applicants whose application failed. on our website, following Cabinet Office guidelines and The information as to what applications for judicial from May 2010 to March 2011 can be found at: review were made against the Department in the last http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/about/who/ministers/ Parliament is not readily available and the cost to transparency/ obtain it would be disproportionate. Departmental Training Departmental Manpower Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many external Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many training courses staff of her Department attended in full-time equivalent staff work on the (a) infectious the last 12 months; and what the cost to the public diseases: animal and plant, (b) flooding and (c) food purse was of each course. [74352] and water workstream of the Capabilities Programme; and what the staffing level was in each of the last Richard Benyon: The information to answer this question 10 quarters. [79504] is not readily available and can be provided only at disproportionate cost. Richard Benyon: DEFRA has four work streams under the Capabilities programme: Animal disease; Flooding; Food supply; and Water supply. Plant disease Fisheries: Birds of Prey is not a work stream within this programme. Full-time equivalent data on each of the work streams is listed in the following table: Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she expects Animal her Department’s review of policy on managing the Quarter ending disease Flooding Food Water impact on inland fisheries of predation by fish-eating birds to be (a) completed and (b) published. [82224] As of 4 18.4 1 1.5 1.8 November 2011 Richard Benyon: The review of policy relating to 30 September 18.4 1 1.5 2.6 fish-eating birds is expected to conclude early in 2012, 2011 with recommendations being made to Ministers in the 30 June 2011 20.4 1 1.5 2.6 spring of 2012. The findings of the review will be 31 March 20 1 1.5 2.6 published shortly after this. 2011 31 December 19 1 1.5 2.6 2010 Flood and Water Management Act 2010 30 September 23.83 1 1.5 2.6 2010 Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for 30 June 2010 22.83 1 1.5 2.6 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when the Government 31 March 25.83 1 1.5 2.6 2010 will publish guidance on company social tariffs under 31 December 27.53 1 1.5 2.6 section 44 of the Flood and Water Management Act 2009 2010. [80289] 30 September 26.73 1 1.5 2.6 2009 Richard Benyon: The Government are currently 30 June 2009 27.23 1 1.5 2.6 consulting on draft company social tariff guidance Note: under section 44 of the Flood and Water Management Numbers reflect numbers of staff working in the core Department. Act 2010. More information can be found at: Animal disease figures are significantly higher as, for the other work http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2011/10/26/social-tariffs/ streams, the bulk of the activity which supports the programme objectives is carried out by others outside DEFRA. We aim to publish final guidance early next year. 425W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 426W

Hydroelectric Power: Regulation calendar year (as opposed to financial year) and including expenditure on legal advice that may have occurred Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for outside the in-house legal team in these years would Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she incur disproportionate cost. has to deregulate the establishment of small-scale hydroelectric schemes; and if she will make a statement. Net cost of in house team (£) [81648] 2007-08 8,429,000 2009-10 8,256,000 Richard Benyon: We do not have any plans to deregulate 2010-11 7,205,000 the establishment of small-scale hydroelectric schemes. 2011-12 (April to June) 1,764,000 However, we are working to ensure the administrative burden of meeting essential environmental standards is The figures in the above table include payments made kept to a minimum. The Environment Agency has to external counsel. streamlined administrative arrangements for the application The following table shows only those payments made and determination processes for those applying for the to external counsel in the calendar years specified. They necessary permissions. The Environment Agency is also include costs relating to representation in court and not working with stakeholders to revise its environmental legal advice alone. It would be disproportionately costly good practice guidelines for hydropower. We will continue to identify these types of costs separately. to seek to maintain the right balance between encouraging growth in this sector and ensuring that sufficient Payments to external counsel (£) environmental protection standards remain in place. 2007 533,071 Legal Opinion 2009 602,861 2010 425,126 Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 (first six months) 377,010 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many times her Department sought legal advice from external The figures in both the above tables include the cost counsel in (a) 2007, (b) 2009, (c) 2010 and (d) the of internal and external legal services provided to executive first six months of 2011. [78064] agencies. It would be disproportionately costly to disaggregate the figures for DEFRA from its executive Richard Benyon: The Department does not keep a agencies. central record of the number of times it has sought The Department’s records do not identify cases in legal advice from external counsel. It does record payments which the Department has been taken to court (and the to external counsel, although not the reason for those outcome) as distinct from other cases, such as those that payments, which can be payments for representation in the Department has brought against others and cases court or for legal advice. resolved under a formal pre-action protocol. To disaggregate It is not necessarily the case that each payment equates cases brought against the Department and their outcome to a separate piece of work. The figures include some would incur disproportionate cost. payments relating to work for DEFRA’s executive agencies, The number of times the Department’s decisions but exclude any external legal advice obtained directly have been subject to judicial review and the outcome of by executive agencies, records of which are not held these cases since 2009 are as follows: centrally. It would be disproportionately costly to disaggregate the figures. Number Outcome 2009 15 12 unsuccessful challenges 3 Total number of payments made successful challenges to external counsel 2010 6 2 unsuccessful challenges 2 2007 296 successful challenges 2 2009 257 settled 2010 225 2011 (first six months) 4 3 unsuccessful challenges 1 ongoing 2011 (first six months) 120 To provide figures for 2007 would incur disproportionate Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for cost. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her Department spent on (a) legal advice and (b) Poultry: EU Law instructing counsel in (i) 2007, (ii) 2009, (iii) 2010 and (iv) the first six months of 2011; how many times (A) George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for her Department was taken to court and (B) a decision Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent taken by her Department was subject to a judicial discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on review; and what the outcome was of each such (1) case EU-wide implementation of the EU laying hens directive and (2) review. [78097] by the 2012 deadline; and if she will make a statement. [81328] Richard Benyon: The Department’s records do not separate out the cost of legal advice from other expenditure Mr Paice: The UK is fully engaged with the Commission on legal services, but the full net cost of the Department’s and other member states in finding a practical enforcement in house legal team is shown in the following table, with solution to large scale non-compliance. The cage ban figures rounded to the nearest £1,000. Presenting this by was an agenda item at the Agriculture Council meeting 427W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 428W held on 14 November 2011 which I attended. Number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty at all courts for selected animal related offences, England and Disappointingly little progress was made and discussions 1,2 are continuing. Wales, 2009-10 2009 2010 The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Proceeded Found Proceeded Found Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Statute against guilty against guilty Meriden (Mrs Spelman), wrote jointly with nine other concerned member states to the European Commission Total 153 96 113 74 in September. They urged the Commission to act quickly 1 The figures presented relate to persons for whom these offences to protect those producers across the EU who will have were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences, the complied with the ban, from the risk of competitive principal offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is distortion in favour of those who will have maintained imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more illegal production after 1 January 2012. offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are Rural Areas accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many officials inevitable limitations are taken into account when these data are work in her Department’s Rural Policy Unit. [81563] used.

Richard Benyon: The Rural Communities Policy Unit currently has 33 staff and is also able to draw on COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT dedicated support from DEFRA economists and social researchers. Empty Property: Halifax Water Supply Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what proportion Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for of properties in Halifax town centre are vacant; and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what date the what proportion were vacant in 2010. [74001] Water White Paper will be published. [80293] Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. Richard Benyon: DEFRA is committed to publishing The Valuation Office Agency does not hold data on the Water White Paper in December. the occupancy status of properties. The Department for Communities and Local Wild Mammals Government (DCLG) publishes figures on the number of vacant properties in the local authority of Calderdale, Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for which includes Halifax town. Figures for smaller Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many people geographical areas are not available. were (a) proceeded against and (b) found guilty of The number of vacant dwellings in Calderdale from offences under the (i) Badgers Act 1991, (ii) Deer Act 2004-10 can be found in the following table on the 1999, (iii) Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1996 and DCLG website: (iv) Hunting Act 2004 in (A) 2009 and (B) 2010. [79354] http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ 1815793.xls Richard Benyon: The number of persons proceeded The number of empty non-domestic hereditaments against at magistrates courts for and found guilty at all in Calderdale for 2010 can be found in the following courts of offences under the (i) Protection of Badgers table on the DCLG website: Act 1992, (ii) Deer Act 1991, (iii) Wild Mammals Protection http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/xls/ Act 1996 and (iv) Hunting Act 2004, in 2009 and 2010, 1972201.xls is shown in the following table: Number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts and found Fire Services: Costs guilty at all courts for selected animal related offences, England and 1,2 Wales, 2009-10 Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities 2009 2010 and Local Government which fire authorities are paying Proceeded Found Proceeded Found the leasing costs of regional control centres; and how Statute against guilty against guilty much each is paying each month. [80397] Protection of 44 26 40 23 Badgers Act 1992, Robert Neill: There are nine regional control centres. Sections 1-5 and 10 The lease costs of five are paid directly by DCLG. For Protection of 6486the other four, DCLG grant fund the fire and rescue Badgers Act 1992, services, who then pay the lease costs themselves. The section 13 amounts currently involved are shown in the following Deer Act 1991 3 2 10 5 table. Wild Mammals 8564 (Protection) Act The National Audit Office report of 1 July 2011, 1996 “The Failure of the FiReControl project”, states on the Hunting Act 2004 92 59 49 36 empty buildings: 429W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 430W

″The Department’s failure to manage the project as a whole contribution rates in public sector pension schemes, has resulted in the creation of empty regional control centres. The equivalent to 3.2% on average to be phased in from nine regional control centres were purpose-built to house the new April 2012. computerised equipment and were designed specifically for that purpose. The Department’s decision to prioritise the procurement A statutory consultation for the firefighters’ pension of the centres over the IT system at an early stage meant that the schemes in England was published on 9 September 2011 first centres were completed in June 2007, just three months after and consults on proposed increases from April 2012 for the IT contract had been awarded″. the Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 1992 and the New Our aim is now to achieve the best possible value for Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006. Under those proposals, money for the tax payer from these buildings. One a fulltime firefighter earning £28,200 in the Firefighters’ control centre has been assigned to the fire service, in Pension Scheme 1992 would pay an additional £24 a London. They are due to move in shortly. DCLG is month after tax relief, and the same firefighter in the working with a number of fire and rescue authorities New Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006 would pay an and other emergency services who have expressed an additional £11 a month after tax relief. There remain interest in taking on a regional control centre, in order strong economic reasons why all members should remain to make good use of the buildings. The decision as to in good quality, guaranteed, reformed public service whether fire and rescue services use the buildings is pension schemes. entirely a local matter. Growing Places Fund DCLG have reduced the facilities management costs for the buildings by 25% and utilities by 35%, and will Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for look to make further savings where appropriate. Communities and Local Government what assessment his Department has made of the effects on rural areas Regional control centre Lease costs per month (£) of its Growing Places Fund. [82214] North East Regional Control 1107,033 Centre (DCLG grant to Grant Shapps: The Growing Places Fund will help Durham Fire Authority) promote both urban and rural job creation and housing. North West Regional Control 2142,017 It will unlock investment in supporting infrastructure Centre (DCLG grant to that will make development more sustainable in both Greater Manchester Fire Authority) urban and rural settings. Local Enterprise Partnerships London Regional Control 1225,263 are in the lead, and I refer the hon. Member to the Centre (DCLG grant to Growing Places Fund prospectus which is in the Library Greater London Authority) of the House. East Midlands Regional 1110,849 Control Centre (DCLG grant Gurkhas: Aldershot Leicestershire Fire Authority) South East Regional Control 3121,000 Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Centre (DCLG pay directly) Communities and Local Government how he plans South West Regional Control 3102,372.53 that his recently announced £1.5 million funding to Centre (DCLG pay directly) ease the pressure on Aldershot as a result of Gurkha East of England Regional 3113,329.44 [81924] Control Centre (DCLG pay immigration will be spent. directly) West Midlands Regional 3114,763.87 Andrew Stunell: The new £1.5 million fund will support Control Centre (DCLG pay the successful integration of retired Gurkha soldiers directly) and their dependants, who, having served in the British Yorkshire and Humberside 3100,531.20 Army, now wish to settle in the United Kingdom. Regional Control Centre (DCLG pay directly) My officials will be contacting authorities with major Gurkha populations, the Gurkha Welfare Trust and 1 Includes rent, utilities and estates costs. 2 Includes rent, utilities, estates and facilities management costs. other Gurkha charities to discuss how this fund can be 3 Includes rent. used most effectively to help address need and support wider settlement. Further meetings are due to take Fire Services: Pensions place over the next week. We will make a further announcement in due course. Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing: Disadvantaged Communities and Local Government if he has made an estimate of the average cost to individual members Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for of the implementation of his proposed changes to the Communities and Local Government what assessment Firefighters’ Pension Scheme. [81918] his Department has made of the effect of housing supply on levels of social exclusion; and what steps his Robert Neill: In his interim report on public service Department plans to take to address such effects. pension reform, Lord Hutton of Furness recommended [82084] increasing employee contributions as the cost of public service pensions had increased by a third due to improving Grant Shapps: Good quality, suitable, and well located longevity and this additional cost had fallen primarily housing, is fundamentally important to social inclusion on taxpayers. The Government accepted Lord Hutton’s and social mobility. One of the most important things rationale and, at the spending review, announced the each generation can do for the next is to build high-quality intention to implement progressive increases to employee homes that will stand the test of time. By the end of the 431W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 432W last Government’s tenure, however, housebuilding rates TREASURY had reached lows not seen in peacetime since the 1920’s. This is not sustainable and not fair on young people Big Society Capital: Barnsley and families. This Government are putting their full weight behind efforts to help the housebuilding industry Dan Jarvis: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer get back to working at its full capacity. Laying The how much is estimated to be in the dormant account Foundations—The Government’s Housing Strategy for fund of (a) Northern Rock, (b) Royal Bank of Scotland England was published on Monday 21 November. The and (c) Lloyds TSB; and how much he estimates will be strategy sets out a bold new approach to get the housing spent in Barnsley Central constituency. [82191] market moving again, whilst also laying the foundations for a more responsive, effective and stable housing Mr Hoban: The Dormant Bank and Building Society market in the future. Accounts Act gives the Reclaim Fund responsibility for managing the dormant account funds, meeting customer reclaims and passing on surplus funds for reinvestment Mobile Homes: Licensing in the community. The Reclaim Fund collects dormant account funds and the Government does not determine the amounts that are retrieved from individual banks. Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the answer of The British Bankers’ Association and the Building 19 October 2011, Official Report, column 1045W, on Societies Association have estimated that the current mobile homes: licensing, whether he has held any discussions value of dormant accounts in the United Kingdom is with Ministers of the Welsh Government on his plans £400 million. England has been apportioned 83.9% of to consult on measures to improve the licensing regime dormant account funds released for reinvestment. for mobile park homes. [81885] Big Society Capital: Charities

Grant Shapps: The Department for Communities and Dan Jarvis: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Local Government has informed the Welsh Assembly what discussions he has had with bank foundations on Government of its plans to consult on the licensing charitable giving to arts and culture charities. [82192] regime for mobile home sites. Site licensing is a devolved matter and the consultation will extend to England Miss Chloe Smith: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, only. my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), has not had any discussions with bank Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities foundations specifically concerning charitable giving to and Local Government pursuant to the answer of arts and culture charities. 19 October 2011, Official Report, column 1045W, on mobile homes: licensing, when he plans to undertake As announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his consultation on measures to improve the licensing his first Budget, the Government have introduced the Bank Levy, a permanent levy on banks’ balance sheets, regime for mobile park homes. [81886] to ensure they make a fair contribution in respect of the potential risks they pose to the UK financial system Grant Shapps: I plan to publish the consultation and wider economy. paper in due course. Corporation Tax: Northern Ireland

Rescue Services: Manpower Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) if he will estimate the effect on the size of the block Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for grant to Northern Ireland of a reduction in corporation Communities and Local Government how many (a) tax to 12.5 per cent; [82000] uniformed and (b) non-uniformed staff were employed (2) if he will estimate the effect on the size of the in each fire and rescue service in England in (i) 2009-10, block grant to Northern Ireland if corporation tax were (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011 to date. [81917] reduced by (a) one, (b) two, (c) three, (d) five and (e) eight per cent. [82001] Robert Neill: Fire and rescue service operational statistics are published on my Department’s website: Mr Gauke: Initial estimates of the effect on the size of http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/researchandstatistics/ the block grant to Northern Ireland of a reduction in firestatistics/firerescue/ corporation tax were included in the Government’s consultation paper Rebalancing the Northern Ireland Economy, published on 24 March 2011. However no Written Questions: Government Responses decisions have been made on how the block grant adjustment would work if corporation tax were devolved. John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Legal Opinion Communities and Local Government when he plans to answer question 80597 tabled on 8 November 2011 for Stephen Hammond: To ask the Chancellor of the named day answer on 14 November 2011. [82206] Exchequer (1) how many times his Department sought legal advice from external counsel in (a) 2007, (b) Greg Clark: Question 80597 was answered on 21 2009, (c) 2010 and (d) the first six months of 2011; November 2011, Official Report, column 59W. [78059] 433W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 434W

(2) what the cost was of (a) internal and (b) We do not separately record costs incurred instructing external legal advice commissioned by his Department counsel and to provide the information requested to an in the first six months of 2011; [78073] appropriate level of accuracy would incur disproportionate (3) how many times his Department’s legal section costs. provided legal advice to Ministers in (a) 2007, (b) Legal advice to Ministers and officials is a regular 2009, (c) 2010 and (d) the first six months of 2011; function of the Treasury legal advisers. It is not possible [78075] to quantify the number of times legal advice has been provided to Ministers over any given period. (4) how many officials in his Department were working in its legal section in June 2011; and how many The Treasury legal advisers are provided by the Treasury staff were working in the legal departments of his Solicitor’s Department. In June 2011 there were 33 Department’s agencies and non-departmental bodies; permanent legal staff working for HM Treasury (this covers both full-time and part-time staff). The Treasury [78083] legal advisers also provide legal services to the Treasury’s (5) how much his Department spent on (a) legal agencies and non-departmental bodies but such entities advice and (b) instructing counsel in (i) 2007, (ii) 2009, may also commission external legal advice. HM Treasury (iii) 2010 and (iv) the first six months of 2011; how does not have a central record of the number of staff its many times (A) his Department was taken to court and agencies and non-departmental bodies employ in their (B) a decision taken by his Department was subject to a legal departments. The Asset Protection Agency had judicial review; and what the outcome was of each such one permanent legal adviser, plus two secondees, in (1) case and (2) review; [78091] June 2011. (6) how many (a) statutory instruments, (b) HM Treasury does not record centrally the number ministerial orders and (c) other pieces of secondary of times it has been taken to court, the number of legislation were issued by his Department in (i) 1990, decisions taken that have been subject to judicial review (ii) 1995, (iii) each year since 1999 and (iv) 2011 to date. or the outcome of each case. However, recorded case [78107] details are available publicly, for example from the British and Irish Legal Information Institute (BAILII), which can be found online at: Miss Chloe Smith: The Treasury Solicitor has opened http://www.bailii.org/ 47 cases on behalf of HM Treasury for the current The following table provides details of the number of financial year. Not all of these cases will involve civil HM Treasury statutory instruments (including ministerial litigation or judicial review proceedings, and counsel orders): can also be engaged to provide advice without the formal opening of a case. HM Treasury does not keep a Number of statutory instruments central record of each time external counsel is instructed, and this information could be provided only at 1990 32 disproportionate cost. 1995 30 For the period April to September 2011 the total cost 1999 35 of legal advice, in terms of bills paid, was £1,351,558.76. 2000 35 This relates to costs paid to external advisers and to the 2001 110 Treasury Solicitor’s Department (which provides the 2002 93 internal legal advisers to the Treasury as well as litigation 2003 49 services), and includes £79,096 paid by HM Treasury 2004 59 for advice obtained from counsel instructed on its behalf, 2005 53 by the Treasury Solicitor’s Department (other than 2006 26 directly by Treasury legal advisers). However, HM Treasury 2007 39 records are collated per financial year and these figures 2008 44 may not include invoices not yet received or bills not yet 2009 74 paid. 2010 32 The total amounts spent on legal services in previous 2011 to date 39 years, including advisory services and instructing counsel, are provided in the following table: Economic Growth: Northern Ireland

Cost (£) Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2007-08 2,644,621.16 (1) when the Government plans to publish its response 2008-09 10,604,514.57 to the consultation on rebalancing the Northern Ireland 2009-10 17,743,055.43 economy; [81996] 2010-11 3,945,452.98 (2) if he will publish the responses to his Department’s consultation on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. All the figures above relate to financial and not [82004] calendar years. For the years 2008-10, legal costs associated with banking interventions were fully reimbursed to the Mr Gauke: The Government have announced that a Treasury by the banks, thus the actual amount of net joint ministerial working group on rebalancing the Northern expenditure incurred by HM Treasury was substantially Ireland economy will be established, comprising Ministers lower. The sums recovered from the banks are fully of HM Government and the Northern Ireland Executive, documented in HM Treasury’s Resource Accounts. to consider issues raised by the consultation. 435W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 436W

No decision has yet been made on whether or not to look across the insurance market for appropriate cover devolve corporation tax and a final decision is expected and may be able to provide names of specialist brokers next year. This decision will be informed by the work who can advise on the availability of appropriate insurance developed by the joint ministerial working group. and trawl the market for the best available deals. Further details of the Government’s response to the Mortgages: Government Assistance consultation and a summary of responses received will be published later in the autumn. Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what consideration he has given to introducing a mortgage Vernon Coaker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer relief scheme for first-time buyers or new build properties. what meetings (a) he and (b) Ministers have had on the consultation on rebalancing the Northern Ireland [81865] economy. [82003] Miss Chloe Smith: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Mr Gauke: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, my Osborne), keeps all taxes under review along Budget right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), timelines. visited Northern Ireland on 17 June 2011 and discussed the Government’s consultation on rebalancing the Northern PAYE: Pilot Schemes Ireland economy with members of the Northern Ireland Executive and the business community. Stephen Timms: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer I have had a series of meetings on this topic with which organisations are participating in the HM Revenue members of the Executive and also attended the launch and Customs pilot of real time information for PAYE; of the consultation in Northern Ireland. I also attended and what the expected duration is of the pilot. [81909] consultation events in London and Belfast where this issue was discussed with representatives of businesses Mr Gauke: The employers involved in the Pilot are and other interested parties. volunteers and have been chosen to be a representative Additionally, Treasury Ministers and officials have group of organisations operating PAYE. They range in meetings as part of the process of policy development size and complexity from those with one employee to and delivery.As was the case with previous administrations, very large complex employers with many employees or it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of pensioners. Those participating include local government all such discussions. banks, payroll bureaux and agents, retail and manufacturing, farmers, universities, colleges and schools, charities, Energy Supply hotels, film companies, software developers, pension providers and services companies. This is not an exhaustive Barry Gardiner: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer list. It is not possible to name the organisations as those how many times he has met with representatives of (a) participating in the Pilot have not given their consent to EDF-Energy, (b) RWE nPower, (c) Eon, (d) Scottish disclosure. Power, (e) British Gas Centrica and (f) Scottish and The Pilot is expected to last one year. The Department Southern Energy since May 2010; and if he will publish is exploring whether more employers and pension providers minutes of those meetings. [80437] could be brought into RTI during 2012-13 if the Pilot is working well. Miss Chloe Smith: Treasury Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide variety of organisations in Public Expenditure the public and private sectors as part of the process of policy development and delivery. Mr Darling: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Treasury publishes a list of ministerial meetings what his latest estimate is of public spending per head with external organisations, available at: of population in (a) England, (b) Scotland, (c) Wales (d) http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minister_hospitality.htm and Northern Ireland in respect of (i) education, (ii) health, (iii) transport and (iv) policing. [81644] Housing: Unemployment Danny Alexander [holding answer 22 November 2011]: Chris Williamson: To ask the Chancellor of the The latest statistics on identifiable public expenditure Exchequer whether he plans to take steps to ensure that by sub-function, per head of population for England, people who are unemployed are not refused home insurance Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can be found in due to their employment status. [82205] tables B.5 to B.8 of the October 2011 National Statistics Public Expenditure Release published by Treasury. The Mr Hoban: As a rule, insurers use their claims experience figures are reproduced in the following table: and other industry-wide statistics to assess the risks Table 1: Identifiable spending on selected services for England, posed by an individual and set the terms and price at Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland which they will offer insurance cover. This can mean £ per head that where insurers think it relevant, people who are 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 unemployed are offered more expensive cover or different England Education 1,179 1,261 1,338 1,424 1,446 terms. Health 1,515 1,631 1,749 1,877 1,900 However, people who are unemployed should still be Transport 306 311 315 343 344 able to find insurance in the current market. For those who have difficulty the British Insurance Brokers’ Policing 248 250 270 276 272 Association (BIBA) is able to advise on how best to 437W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 438W

Table 1: Identifiable spending on selected services for England, Customers wishing to gain access to their tax records Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can do so in accordance with the Data Protection Act £ per head guidelines. Customers should address their request to 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 the ’Data Protection Officer’, including enough details Scotland Education 1,397 1,432 1,466 1,492 1,541 to enable us to verify their identity and locate the Health 1,766 1,891 1,969 2,040 2,072 relevant information. Further information can be found by contacting HMRC and asking for a copy of leaflet Transport 529 551 529 562 536 DP/FS1 or on the HMRC website at the following link: Policing 218 228 240 250 247 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/dp-fs1.htm

Wales Education 1,246 1,325 1,391 1,446 1,415 Health 1,688 1,772 1,860 1,973 2,017 CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Transport 300 314 344 384 400 Arts Policing 232 236 249 256 260 Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Northern Education 1,327 1,383 1,424 1,498 1,509 Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has Ireland made of the variety of cultural venues in each region Health 1,700 1,736 1,859 1,924 2,106 and their effect on private sector investment in arts Transport 222 296 305 310 360 organisations. [80789] Policing 476 474 479 545 576 Source: Mr Vaizey: We have made no such assessment. The National Statistics key factor in determining private sector investment in arts organisations is strong leadership. We know there is Stamp Duty Land Tax scope to strengthen philanthropy and other forms of income generation across the country. It is for arts Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer organisations to develop and cultivate support from a what his estimate is of the number of people who have range of sources. In September this Department, along benefited from the stamp duty relief on properties with Arts Council England and the Heritage Lottery under £250,000 in (a) the UK, (b) Wales and (c) Fund, announced details of the £100 million Catalyst Aberconwy constituency. [81866] scheme to boost private giving to culture. This will enable arts and heritage organisations across the country Miss Chloe Smith: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, to diversify the way they generate income, increase their my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr fundraising potential and develop new ways to secure Osborne), announced at the Budget that the outcome of private giving. a review of the stamp duty land tax relief for first time buyers will be announced in autumn 2011. Creative Industries

Tax Allowances: Travel Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps is he taking to Graeme Morrice: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer ensure that the arts and creative industries can make how many employees in the UK used (a) Cycle to Work use of dormant account money when it is invested in schemes, (b) employer-provided buses and (c) tax-free the Big Society Bank. [82193] parking in the latest period for which figures are available. [81874] Mr Vaizey: Big Society Capital (BSC, formerly referred to as the ’Big Society Bank’) set out in its outline Mr Gauke: This information is not collected as there proposal of May 2011, that it will use dormant account is no requirement for employers to report use of these money to boost significantly the ability of the social benefits in kind to HM Revenue and Customs. sector to deal with social issues. BSC will act as a wholesale investor for social investment, investing capital I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by the in intermediaries so that they are able to invest in Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend frontline organisations. There is no reason why intermediary the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), on 10 February organisations working in the arts and other creative 2011, Official Report, column 408W,for further information sectors cannot apply to this fund and we will be working on the Cycle to Work scheme. with our public bodies to encourage them to do so. Taxation Departmental Manpower

Guto Bebb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for what steps he plans to take to ensure that people who Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport for how many (a) do not have internet access are able to obtain copies of days per week and (b) weeks per year on average the their tax records by other means. [81864] 89 unpaid interns of the National Museum of Science and Industry were employed from September 2009 to Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs are committed September 2010. [82190] to continue providing permanent, dedicated support to customers who are unable to access our services online. Mr Vaizey: The National Museum of Science and This support may be provided, for example, through the Industry (NMSI) does not hold complete data on the use of intermediaries or alternative channels. number of days per week worked by each intern employed 439W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 440W from September 2009 to September 2010, and is not Updates will be published periodically in the same able to obtain this data retrospectively. However, it is location; the funding allocated programmes to support estimated the average number of days worked per week museums and libraries—Renaissance in the Regions, by each intern is 2.5. On average, interns were based at Strategic Commissioning and DCMS/Wolfson Museums NMSI for a period of 26-weeks per year. Internships and Galleries Improvement Fund from 2006-07 to 2014-15; ranged from a five day placement to a yearlong research the funding allocated to the Department’s grant-funded fellowship. museums from 2006-07 to 2014-15.

Gambling: Internet Grant in aid £ million Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Body 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Olympics, Media and Sport what recent discussions he has had with (a) his EU counterparts and (b) governments British Museum 42.929 44.893 50.943 48.348 46.343 of non-EU countries on the regulation of internet Natural History 43.135 45.165 52.887 51.186 48.586 Museum gambling. [82090] Imperial War 20.613 22.177 23.888 24.163 23.910 John Penrose: I have been in contact with the governing Museum authorities of Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey, Malta, the National Gallery 23.985 25.597 26.369 27.287 28.201 Isle of Man, Antigua and Barbuda, and Tasmania, to National Maritime 17.008 18.491 19.750 19.240 19.002 discuss and inform them of my remote gambling proposals, Museum1 particularly in relation to the phasing out of the white National Museums 21.203 22.326 22.488 23.643 23.712 list and the transitional arrangements. Liverpool I also wrote to my counterparts in the Welsh National Portrait 7.031 7.038 7.693 7.744 7.577 Government, the Scottish Government and the Northern Gallery Ireland Executive. National Museum 37.329 38.484 39.158 40.608 40.153 of Science and Last month I met the European Commission and Industry discussed the remote gambling proposals on an informal Tate Gallery 34.124 45.929 61.385 55.987 54.729 basis. While in Brussels I also made a speech on Government policy in this area, which can be found on my Department’s Victoria and Albert 39.112 42.262 44.860 44.761 44.318 Museum website at: Wallace Collection 3.528 4.156 4.228 4.301 4.212 http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/ministers_speeches/8638.aspx Museum of Science 4.059 4.171 4.788 4.987 4.882 and Industry in Independent Commercial Television Broadcast Sector Manchester Museum of 7.931 8.809 n/a n/a n/a Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for London Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what plans his (transferred to Department has to promote the independent commercial GLA April 2008) television broadcast sector. [81913] Sir John Soane’s 1.115 1.339 1.339 1.181 1.169 Museum Mr Vaizey: As we take forward the communications Horniman Museum 3.932 4.350 4.757 4.566 4.518 review, we will take into account the thoughts and Geffrye Museum 1.740 1.956 1.748 1.791 1.773 concerns of the independent commercial television Royal Armouries 7.814 8.917 8.264 8.474 8.389 broadcast sector in developing our proposals. Total Museums 316.588 346.060 374.545 368.267 361.474 Museums: Libraries British Library 102.643 106.480 106.947 109.464 105.847 Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, 1 This include the ring-fenced allocation for National Historic Ships. Olympics, Media and Sport (1) how much his Department Spending review settlement plans to spend on (a) museums and (b) libraries in £ million each of the next four years; [82194] Body 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 (2) how much his Department has spent on (a) museums and (b) libraries in each of the last five years. British Museum 54.664 44.016 43.393 43.267 [82195] Natural History 46.480 45.760 45.204 45.172 Museum Mr Vaizey: The following tables show the amount of Imperial War 21.706 21.436 21.239 21.273 funding the Department for Culture, Media and Sport Museum (DCMS) has spent on museums and libraries from National Gallery 26.744 26.320 25.980 25.911 2006-07 to 2010-11, and how much it plans-to spend National Maritime 17.058 16.848 16.693 16.723 Museum1 from 2011-12 to 2014-15. The tables reflect: the grant-in-aid National Museums 21.875 21.561 21.323 21.327 paid for the Department’s national museums and the Liverpool British Library from 2006-07 to 2010-11 and the funding National Portrait 7.398 7.277 7.183 7.172 allocated to these bodies in the October 2010 spending Gallery review settlement from 2011-12 to 2014-15. These figures National Museum of 37.582 37.026 36.602 36.596 can be seen on the Department’s website at: Science and Industry http://www.transparency.culture.gov.uk/ Tate Gallery 35.305 34.912 34.837 33.441 441W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 442W

Spending review settlement Spending review settlement £ million £ million Body 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 Body 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 Sir John Soane’s 1.130 1.111 1.096 1.094 Victoria and Albert 41.355 40.705 40.203 40.167 Museum Museum Horniman Museum 4.275 4.199 4.139 4.127 Wallace Collection 2.983 2.946 2.918 2.922 Geffrye Museum 1.674 1.645 1.621 1.616 Museum of Science 3.998 3.927 3.871 3.860 Royal Armouries 7.901 7.773 7.673 7.662 and Industry in Total Museums 332.128 317.462 313.975 312.330 Manchester Museum of London n/a n/a n/a n/a (transferred to GLA British Library 107.473 96.287 93.544 93.407 April 2008) 1 This include the ring-fenced allocation for National Historic Ships.

Allocation £ million Programme 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15

DCMS/Wolfson 2 2 2 2 2 n/a 2.000 n/a 2.000 Museums and Galleries Improvement Fund1 Renaissance in the 32 45 46.215 47.463 47.04 45.567 44.725 44.050 43.914 Regions Strategic 2.7 2.7 2.7 2.56 2.373 n/a n/a n/a n/a Commissioning 1 The DCMS/Wolfson Fund, financed equally by Government and the Wolfson Foundation, supports projects which improve the quality of displays, public spaces, collection interpretation and disabled access in museums and galleries across England.

Allocation £ million Grants to smaller museums 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15

Design 0.483 0.503 0.414 0.425 0.424 0.328 0.257 0.202 0.163 NCMME 2.528 2.809 2.731 2.805 2.794 2.707 2.657 2.616 2.608 People’s History 0.156 0.164 0.168 0.173 0.173 0.168 0.164 0.162 0.162 Tyne and Wear 1.861 2.326 2.362 2.399 2.848 1.918 1.893 1.872 1.868 Football Museum 0.100 0.100 0.103 0.105 0.105 n/a n/a n/a n/a (ceased funding from 2010-11) Total 5.128 5.902 5.778 5.907 6.344 5.121 4.971 4.852 4.801

This Department has policy responsibility for public of the 2012 Olympic athletes’ village will be funded by libraries but core funding for public libraries is paid to (a) public investment and (b) private investment. the 151 library authorities in England as part of the [82100] Local Government Finance Settlement, administered by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG). Hugh Robertson: The construction cost of the Olympic village is estimated at £1.1 billion. This includes Olympic Until October 2011 the Museums, Libraries and Archives related costs such as re-fitting the accommodation after Council (MLA) was responsible for library development the games and athlete use, for long-term legacy occupation. and improvement. Grant-in-aid was used to deliver the All these costs are initially funded by the public investment. Future Libraries Programme supporting 10 projects Of the 2,818 new homes being created, 1,379 have been with a maximum of £10,000 per project to help library sold to affordable housing provider Triathlon Homes, services face financial challenges. for £268 million and the remaining 1,439 homes were MLA’s responsibility for libraries was transferred to recently sold to Qatari Diar/Delancey (QDD) Joint Arts Council England (ACE) and on 9 November ACE Venture for £557.5 million. Triathlon’s investment includes launched a second Libraries Development Initiative. It a grant of £110 million from the Homes and Communities will run between March 2012 and March 2013 supporting Agency. These receipts of at least £826 million more around 10 projects with a maximum of £20,000 per than cover the normal construction and development project to create vibrant, sustainable 21st century library costs of the village but not the abnormal costs of the service. village project, which include having to construct the whole development at one time for use by athletes at Olympic Games 2012: Finance games-time, the need to hold all of the apartments unsold during game-time and the need to extensively Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for refit the accommodation post-games from athletes use Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what proportion to residential use. It is important to note, the QDD 443W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 444W agreement also provides for the public purse to benefit Mr Philip Hammond: The Defence Transformation from a share in any profits arising from future improvements programme, which is taking forward the structural and in the property markets. We cannot, therefore, assess organisational changes flowing from the strategic defence the total cost of the village to the public purse at this and security review and the Levene review, is intended time because we will recoup costs in the future. However, to enable the Department to manage the impact of the the overall financial outturn on the Olympic village is in planned staffing reductions by providing the mechanism line with previous forecasts and within the overall public to match resources and outputs. sector funding package for the games. Priorities will be rigorously examined, non-essential work will be stopped, and other work will be done Sport England: Third Sector in different ways—including through outsourcing, organisational restructuring, and rationalisation. The Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, single services are modelling their future manpower to Olympics, Media and Sport what funding Sport England minimise the effect on operational effectiveness. allocated to voluntary sector or third sector organisations in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; and if he will make a Dubai statement. [81851] John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Hugh Robertson: The information requested is not which officials of his Ministry were present at the press held by this Department and relates to matters that are conference in Dubai in June 2011 at which his predecessor the responsibility of Sport England. answered questions on Libya, Syria and the UK strategic Accordingly, I have asked the chief executive of Sport defence review. [80426] England to write direct to the hon. Member for Harrow West. Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 14 November 2011]: The previous Secretary of State for Defence, my Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr both Houses. Fox), was accompanied during the media engagements in Dubai by a private secretary, and a special adviser from his private office. He was also supported by Her Majesty’s ambassador to Dubai, the in-country Defence DEFENCE Attaché, and the embassy’s media adviser. Armed Forces: Recruitment Ex-servicemen: Mental Health

Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Defence in which regions the (a) Army, (b) Navy and whether his Department discusses regularly with the (c) Royal Air Force has recruited in each year from NHS trends in psychiatric problems experienced by 2005 to 2011. [82200] former armed services personnel. [81540]

Mr Robathan: I refer the right hon. Member to the Mr Philip Hammond: Officials from the Ministry of answers I gave on 23 November 2010, Official Report, Defence and the UK Departments of Health meet column 211W, to the hon. Member for Houghton and regularly, via the Partnership Board, to discuss issues Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson), and on 19 October including the mental health of our former service personnel. 2011, Official Report, column 987W,to the hon. Member At a local level, Defence officials meet regularly with for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford). their colleagues in the health services and devolved administrations to ensure our former service personnel Defence receive the healthcare they are entitled to.

Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Gurkhas what his policy is on the UK retaining a full spectrum defence capability following the strategic defence and Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for security review. [81721] Defence (1) what the cost of Gurkha recruitment has been in each of the last four years; [82063] Mr Philip Hammond: I refer the right hon. Member (2) how many Gurkhas have been recruited in Nepal to page 10 of the Government’s Response to the House in each of the last four years. [82064] of Commons Defence Committee’s Sixth Report of Session 2010-12 (HC 1639), published on 10 November Mr Robathan: The cost of Gurkha recruitment in 2011. each of the last four years was: Copies of the response are available in the Library of the House. Financial year £ million

2007-08 2.4 Departmental Manpower 2008-09 2.2 2009-10 2.5 Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11 2.5 Defence what assessment he has made of the effect of staffing reductions on his Department’s performance The following numbers of Gurkhas have been recruited and productivity. [82176] in Nepal in each of the last four years: 445W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 446W

Children: Protection Number 2007 230 Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Education 2008 230 what assessment he has made of the possible additional 2009 176 risk to child protection of the extension of the shared 2010 176 accommodation rate of local housing allowance to (a) 25 to 34 year olds who are (i) parents with part-custody Liyba of their children and (ii) women up until the latest stage of pregnancy and (b) other 25 to 34 year-olds; and if he Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State will make a statement. [81118] for Defence what plans he has to provide long-term support to Libya. [81467] Steve Webb: I have been asked to reply. It is not possible to assess any increased risk to Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 22 November children by extending the age threshold of the shared 2011]: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has a small accommodation rate. The equality impact assessment Defence Advisory Team as part of the UK embassy in of the increase to the shared accommodation rate age Tripoli. threshold, available on the DWP website at: The UK is currently contributing £1.5 million to http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/eia-hb-shared-accommodation- fund civilian experts assisting in a weapons disposal age-threshold.pdf programme. As part of this commitment, the MOD has contains estimates of the impacts of this measure at provided a small team of UK military specialists to both Government office region and local authority area work alongside the Libyans and United States in preventing level but does not look at the implications for child the proliferation of surface to air missiles. protection. We stand ready to respond to any formal request for Further financial assistance is available from local defence and security assistance from the new Libyan authorities through discretionary housing payments when Government and will ensure that any support is coordinated they consider that additional help with housing costs is with key partners. needed. Local authorities often award such payments to Met Office single pregnant women to cover a temporary housing benefit shortfall on moving into larger accommodation in anticipation of the birth of their child. Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the capital receipt his Department is likely to receive following the Cultural Education Review transfer of the Met Office from his Department. [82055] Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the cost to the public purse of the Mr Robathan: The Met Office was transferred to the Independent Review of Cultural Education is; and on Department for Business, Innovation and Skills on what date the report of the review is to be published. 18 July 2011 as part of a wider machinery of government [81554] change which was undertaken as a first step to establishing a public data corporation (PDC). One of its aims is to Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: Darren create a vehicle to facilitate private investment. Proposals Henley is working on the cultural review on a voluntary for a PDC are still under development and the shape basis, with the support of officials from both the and nature that the PDC takes will impact on the source Department for Culture, Media and Sport and the and nature of any capital receipts realised by Government. Department for Education. The report will be published shortly.

EDUCATION Drugs: Health Education

Children: Disability Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what his Department’s expenditure was on Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Frank drug awareness campaign in each year since Education if he will bring forward proposals to require its introduction. [82231] schools to record whether a child has a disability. [81542] Sarah Teather: Information on the amount of funding provided by the Department for Education is only Sarah Teather: Schools were asked to provide information available from the accounting year 2006-07. The amounts on pupils with disabilities in January 2011 School Census allocated to the service are shown in the following table: returns on a voluntary basis. We have asked them to do likewise next year. Financial year £ We will then consider future disability data collection 2006-07 984,177 arrangements in light of experience over both years, 2007-08 1,501,596 alongside considering work by the Education, Schools 2008-09 1,543,273 and Children’s Services Information Standards Board 2009-10 1,414,299 to create a standard for data collection across children’s 2010-11 4,631 services and education. 447W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 448W

This funding was a contribution to the overall FRANK Schools: Sports campaign. Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for Education First Aid: Education how much funding has been allocated to schools to pay for day release of PE teachers to organise sport in Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for primary schools; and if he will make a statement. Education in how many schools first aid is taught to [81691] pupils. [81602] Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: Each Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: The eligible school will receive £7,600 per year in the two Department does not collect this information centrally. academic years 2011/12 and 2012/13 to release a PE However, schools teach first aid within non statutory teacher for one day a week to work with local primary personal, social, health and economic (PSHE) education. schools to increase opportunities in competitive sport Pupils are taught how to recognise and follow health and to encourage greater take up of the School Games. and safety procedures, ways of reducing risk and minimising harm in risky situations and how to use emergency and Clive Efford: To ask the Secretary of State for basic first aid. Education how many young ambassadors have taken We are reviewing personal, social, health and economic part in organising sporting activities in each local (PSHE) education, including sex and relationships authority area in each school year since 2006-07; how education. The internal review is considering how to many he anticipates will take part in 2011-12; and if he improve the quality of teaching; the core outcomes will make a statement. [81696] which we expect PSHE to achieve and the core of knowledge and awareness that the Government should Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: The expect pupils to acquire at school. It is looking at Department does not collect this information. The role existing research and also welcomes submissions of of young ambassadors is to act as advocates and role evidence and good practice before 30 November this models by using the power of the Olympic and Paralympic year. Games to encourage other young people to take up sport and physical activity. This includes: increasing Life Skills participation in school sport; promoting healthy lifestyles; promoting the Olympic and Paralympic values; and supporting the delivery of the School Games. As part of Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for this work, many young ambassadors will help to organise Education whether he plans to take any steps to promote sporting activities. Drinkaware’s In:tuition life skills programme. [79277]

Sarah Teather [holding answer 7 November 2011]: It Teachers: Pensions is not the role of Government to promote particular programmes. However, the work of the Alcohol Network Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for of the Public Health Responsibility Deal launched on Education what proportion of active members of the 15 March 2011 has, as one of its aims, support for the Teachers’ Pension Scheme earn up to £15,000 per annum. education of young people about the harms of alcohol [81289] misuse and the importance of delaying the onset of drinking. The Alcohol Network sub-group responsible Mr Gibb [holding answer 15 November 2011]: Figures for developing the pledge which addresses this issue is provided by Teachers’ Pension show that as of 31 March currently considering appropriate evidence-based 2011 there were 92,578 active members with salaries up programmes which look to be best placed to support to £15,000. this aim. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Pupils: Disadvantaged Education how many people were making contributions to the teachers’ pension scheme on the most recent date Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for for which figures are available; and how many people Education what proportion of pupils in each education were making such contributions 12 months previously. authority area with selective grammar schools receives [81428] the pupil premium in (a) each of the grammar schools and (b) each of the other secondary schools in the Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: The area. [76172] Teachers’ Pensions Scheme (England and Wales) Annual Accounts provide the most current full year figures for Mr Gibb [holding answer 21 October 2011]: Information active membership of the Teachers’ Pension Scheme. on the percentage of pupils eligible for the deprivation The 2010-11 accounts show that as of 31 March 2010 pupil premium in each local authority with at least one there were 658,351 active members and as of 31 March grammar school has been placed in the House Libraries 2009 there were 628,344 active members. for (a) each grammar school and (b) other state-funded secondary schools in those authorities. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on the numbers of service children and Education what proportion of active members of the looked after children eligible for the pupil premium is Teachers’ Pension Scheme earning less than £15,000 per not released at school level. year (a) are female and (b) work part-time. [81575] 449W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 450W

Mr Gibb [holding answer 22 November 2011]: In the Cluster Munitions and which either has stockpiles of financial year 2010-11 there were 92,578 active members cluster munitions, or has companies involved in the with salaries up to £15,000. Of these 73,283, were manufacture or trade in cluster munitions or components; female and 92,284 worked part-time. and if he will make a statement. [81339]

Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: This Government considers carefully which Education what proportion of a teacher’s pensionable overseas Governments may receive invitations to send pay is deducted in pension contributions. [81877] official delegations to UK defence and security exhibitions. All relevant factors are taken into consideration. Mr Gibb: The current employee contribution to the Teachers’ Pension Scheme is 6.4% of pensionable salary. EU Social Chapter The Department is currently considering responses to its recent consultation to increase employee contributions Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State to the TPS from 1 April 2012. The increases would for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent assessment average 3.2% but would be tiered, so that those who he has made of the costs and benefits of proposals to earn more will pay more and the lowest earners will be withdraw from the European Social Chapter; and if he protected. will place any such assessment in the Library. [81446]

Vocational Education Mr Davey: None. There is no distinct “European Social Chapter”; the EU’s provisions for social and Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for related matters are integrated into the treaties. Education what assessment he has made of the proportion of young people aged 14 to 16 years who would benefit Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State from receiving vocational education for more than for Business, Innovation and Skills what representations 20 per cent. of their school time. [81147] he has received since May 2010 calling for the UK to withdraw from the European Social Chapter; and if he Mr Gibb: The Wolf review of vocational education will place a copy of any such representations in the made recommendations for Government to improve the Library. [81665] quality of vocational education offered to 14 to 16-year-olds, wherever they take their education. It noted that, in a Mr Davey: There is no distinct “European Social normal school setting, the vocational component of Chapter”; the EU’s provisions for social and related students’ programmes should not be expected to exceed matters are integrated into the treaties. This Department around 20% of teaching time, but did not recommend regularly receives representations from stakeholders on any specific action to restrict how much time should be matters concerning aspects of European employment devoted to vocational programmes for some, or all, law. It would not be practical to deposit all such students. representations in the Libraries of the House. On 12 May the Government response to the Wolf European Agency and Temporary Workers Directive review accepted all the recommendations in full, and set out a timeline for implementing the recommendations. Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for The Wolf report on vocational education and the Business, Innovation and Skills if he will place in the Government response, including key implementation Library a copy of the legal opinion in respect of the milestones, can be found here: May 2008 agreement between the Confederation of http://www.education.gov.uk/16to19/ British Industry and the Trades Union Congress regarding qualificationsandlearning/a0074953/review-of-vocational- education-the-wolf-report the implementation of the regulations pertaining to the European agency and temporary workers directive and Written Questions: Government Responses the Government’s options on amending these; and if he will make a statement. [82196] John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Education when he plans to answer Question 80983 tabled on Mr Davey: I will not be disclosing any legal advice 9 November 2011 for named day answer on 14 November relating to the May 2008 agreement between the Confederation of British Industry and the Trades Union 2011. [82207] Congress due to legal professional privilege. Tim Loughton: Parliamentary question 80983 was I refer my hon. Friend to the written ministerial replied to on 21 November 2011, Official Report, column statement I made on 19 October 2010, Official Report, 70W. columns 49-50WS, which sets out the reason for my decision not to amend the regulations prior to implementation due to the clear risk of undermining the 12-week qualifying period. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Export Controls: Arms Trade Cluster Munitions Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make it his Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make it his policy to promote the addition of (a) electric-shock policy not to invite to UK arms trade events any country stun-cuffs and other body worn electric-shock devices that has not signed and ratified the Convention on and (b) spiked batons and spiked shields to the list of 451W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 452W items in Council Regulation (EC) No 1236/2005 concerning Local Economic Partnership trade in certain goods which could be used for capital punishment or torture that are prohibited from import Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, or export; and if he will promote inclusion in the Innovation and Skills what the budget is for each local Regulation of enhanced controls on drugs used for economic partnership covering (a) Birmingham, (b) carrying out the death penalty by lethal injection; and if Newcastle, (c) Wakefield, (d) Manchester, (e) Leeds, he will make a statement. [81338] (f) Liverpool, (g) Coventry, (h) Bristol, (i) Sheffield, (j) Bradford, (k) Leicester and (l) Nottingham for Mr Prisk: The Committee for Common Rules for each of the next five years. [82777] Exports of Products (Council Regulation (EC) No 1236/ 2005) met on 16 November 2011 to discuss the Mr Prisk: Local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) can Commission’s proposals to add electric-shock cuffs and draw on a variety of funding sources, including from other body worn electric-shock devices and spiked batons local authorities and other partners. In relation to central to the list of items whose import and export are prohibited, Government funding LEPs can apply for money to and to add specified drugs that could be used for the support their development through this Department’s purposes of execution by lethal injection to the list of Capacity and Start-up Funds. They were all also recently items for which an export licence is required. The awarded an indicative allocation from the Growing Government supported the proposals. Subject to final Places Fund. approval of the member states the Commission indicated LEPs can also apply for funding to support specific that they intend to bring the amendments into force programmes or projects, for example, the Regional Growth before the end of this year. Fund or through the Technology Strategy Board. Partnerships can also access European funding streams or may receive financial support from local authorities. Export Credits Guarantees: Arms Trade The Department has made no projections as to how much funding each local enterprise partnership will Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, receive over the next five years. Innovation and Skills if he will take steps to work with the Paris Club to carry out a public audit of the debt National Savings and Investments: Post Offices owed to the Export Credits Guarantee Department (ECGD); and if he will undertake an immediate review Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, of ECGD-backed loans for arms sales to undemocratic Innovation and Skills what recent discussions his governments. [81331] Department has had with National Savings and Investment on its decision to stop selling its products through the Mr Davey: The Government have no plans to carry Post Office network. [82153] out an audit of debts owed to the Export Credits Guarantee Department (ECGD) or undertake a review Mr Davey: National Savings and Investments (NS&I) of ECGD support for defence exports. UK Export is an executive agency of Her Majesty’s Treasury (HMT). Finance does not offer support for defence exports As such, the Department has held discussions with both unless the Export Control Organisation (ECO) of the NS&I and HMT on the future provision of NS&I Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) is products through the Post Office network. willing to issue an export licence where this is required. The ECO is the body that decides whether a defence Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, export is permissible, consistent with relevant legislation Innovation and Skills (1) what estimate he has made of and Government policy. In doing so, it takes account of the monetary value of National Savings and Investment’s a number of factors, including international relations, contract with Post Office Ltd in the last year for which security and human rights. Relevant departments across figures are available; [82154] Whitehall, but not including UK Export Finance, are (2) what assessment he has made of the effect on the involved in its decision-taking. viability of the Post Office network of the decision by National Savings and Investment to stop selling products through the Post Office; [82155] Health: Working Hours (3) whether Premium Bonds will continue to be offered through the Post Office following the withdrawal of Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for National Savings and Investments products; [82220] Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has (4) what estimate he has made of the monetary value made of the effect on productivity of changes in the of sales commission on National Savings and Investments level of occupational health research. [82057] products for the Post Office in the latest period for which figures are available. [82222] Mr Willetts: The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the right hon. Member for Mr Davey: Information relating to contractual Twickenham (Vince Cable), has not made any assessment arrangements and the data requested is an operational on the effect of changes in the level of occupational matter for the Post Office, taking account of their health research on productivity. The level of funding by commercial relationship National Savings and Investments. the Medical Research Council, one of the main agencies I have therefore asked Paula Vennells, the managing through which the Government support medical and director of Post Office Ltd, to respond directly to the clinical research, on occupational health research has hon. Member and a copy of her reply will be placed in not changed significantly over the past five years. the Libraries of the House. 453W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 454W

Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks on behalf of Innovation and Skills what proportion of National the Public Carriage Office. It has also been successful in Savings and Investments products were managed by securing additional services which have not yet gone (a) post, (b) telephone, (c) online and (d) through live—for example face-to-face registrations for some post offices in the last 12 months for which figures are local authority staff. available. [82217] Science: Inflation Miss Chloe Smith: I have been asked to reply. The proportion of National Savings and Investments Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, products transacted by (a) post, (b) telephone, (c) Innovation and Skills what recent assessment he has online and (d) through post offices from 1 November made of the effect of inflation on his Department’s 2010 to 31 October 2011 by their customers is set out in science budget. [79763] the following table. Mr Willetts: At the time of the settlement, the Percentage Government were using the GDP deflator which came By post to NS&I 43 close to 10% by the end of the last spending review Telephone 9 period in 2010. General inflation forecasts will vary Online 18 over time and calculations of specific inflation rates in Over the counter at the post office 18 particular sectors will give variations around those forecasts. PickingupabrochureatPO, 19 The Government have also set efficiency targets for and sending application to NS&I the Science and Research budget. These savings will total £324 million by the last year of the spending The percentage figures do not sum to 100% because review period for 2011-15. Given the ring-fenced position customers may have used more than one channel to of the Science and Research resource budget, these transact with NS&I during the year as other available savings will be reinvested in science and research and sales or transaction channels are available, eg, BACS will allow further spend on the highest priorities. This payments or by using ATMs. equates to about 7% of savings. Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the monetary value he puts on National Savings and Investments transactions administered through the post CABINET OFFICE office network in the latest period for which figures are available. [82221] Civil Servants: Pensions

Miss Chloe Smith: I have been asked to reply. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet In the financial year 2010-11, £3.06 billion of NS&I Office what proportion of active members of the Principal sales were made at post office counters and £2.03 billion Civil Service Pension Scheme earning less than £15,000 of NS&I sales were made by customers picking up an per year (a) are female and (b) work part-time. [81571] NS&I brochure at a post office and then sending this directly to NS&I. £227.8 million of repayments were Mr Maude [holding answer 22 November 2011]: There made via the Post Office. are 57,904 female active members of the Principal Civil Over the same period £3.12 billion of sales were Service Pension Scheme (PCSPS), earning less than made by customers directly via NS&I’s website; £1.95 £15,000 per year, and of those 53,833 work part-time. billion directly with NS&I by telephone; and £1.78 Membership numbers of the PCSPS and a breakdown billion directly with NS&I by post. between active, deferred and pensioner members can be found in Cabinet Office Civil Superannuation Resource Postal Services Accounts 2009-10, copies of which are in the Library.

Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Rachel Reeves: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Innovation and Skills what additional services the Office what proportion of active members of the Government has begun to provide through the Post Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme earn no more Office network as part of its objective to make the than £15,000 per year. [81573] network a front office for Government since May 2010. [82216] Mr Maude [holding answer 22 November 2011]: There are 70,732 active members of the Principal Civil Service Mr Davey: This Government were clear in its November Pension Scheme (PCSPS), earning no more than £15,000 2010 policy statement that it supports Post Office Ltd’s per year. Membership numbers of the PCSPS and a ambition to provide more services on behalf of local breakdown between active, deferred and pensioner members and national Government. can be found in Cabinet Office Civil Superannuation Post Office Ltd has shown good progress against this Resource Accounts 2009-10, copies of which are in the ambition. For example; it has recently begun providing Library. services to Westminster council after bidding successfully for a contract for a number of ‘front office’ services; it Nadine Dorries: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet has worked with The Department for Work and Pensions Office what proportion of a civil servant’s pay is (DWP) on three pilots; and has recently begun providing deducted in pension contributions. [81876] 455W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 456W

Mr Maude: Pensions, including the level of employee Deaths from melanomas of the skin of genital organs and contribution, form part of the remuneration package. melanomas of sites other than the skin cannot be identified Remuneration for the civil service is intended to be separately in mortality data and are therefore excluded from the sufficient to attract and retain staff while providing figures in Tables 1 and 2. However, the number of such deaths is likely to be relatively small. good value for money to the taxpayer. Copies of Tables 1 and 2 have been placed in the House of Civil servants pay pension contributions of either Commons library. 1.5% or 3.5% of pay, depending on which section of the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme they are a member Young People: Voluntary Work of. The Government have already announced that they intend to increase contributions by an average of 3.2% Mr Thomas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet of pay, and a consultation closed on 20 October on the Office how many of those starting National Citizen first year of increases to apply from April 2012. Service did not complete their full course; and if he will Metastatic Melanoma make a statement. [81925]

Pauline Latham: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Hurd: An independent evaluation of the National Office how many people died from metastatic melanoma Citizen Service pilot programme is currently collecting by each (a) cancer network and (b) primary care trust and analysing data on participation rates across the in each year since 1997. [82638] twelve pilot schemes in 2011. This work will conclude shortly. I will then be able to Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the provide the House with a full update. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated November 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I HEALTH have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many people died from metastatic melanoma by each (a) Childbirth: Alcoholic Drinks cancer network and (b) primary care trust in each year since 1997 (82638) Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for It is not possible to identify the stage of a tumour (whether it Health how many children were born to (a) drug- and was localised or had spread to other parts of the body) from the (b) alcohol-dependent mothers by region in each of information collected at death registration. However, it is likely that almost all deaths from malignant melanoma are due to the last 10 years. [81621] metastatic disease. Tables 1 and 2 provide the number of deaths where malignant Anne Milton: The following tables provide data on melanoma of skin was the underlying cause of death for (a) delivery episodes for children born to (a) drug- and (b) cancer networks (Table 1) and (b) primary care organisations alcohol-dependent mother, by strategic health authority (Table 2) in England, for 1997 to 2010 (the latest year available). of residence for the years 2000-01 to 2009-10.

Count of deliveries by drug dependent mothers (excluding alcohol and tobacco) by strategic health authority of residence, 2005-06 to 2000-01 Code Strategic health authority 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 2002-03 2001-02 2000-01

Q01 Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire Strategic HA 42 31 41 31 19 11 Q02 Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Strategic HA 233210 Q03 Essex Strategic HA 10 16 11 6 1 2 Q04 North West London Strategic HA 876645 Q05 North Central London Strategic HA 15 15 3 10 2 0 Q06 North East London Strategic HA 16 66781 Q07 South East London Strategic HA 728462 Q08 South West London Strategic HA 387654 Q09 Northumberland, Tyne and Wear Strategic HA 59 53 39 22 12 7 Q10 County Durham and Tees Valley Strategic HA 85 73 52 28 23 24 Q11 North and East Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire 25 20 22 12 5 3 Strategic HA Q12 West Yorkshire Strategic HA 45 33 45 39 3 2 Q13 Cumbria and Lancashire Strategic HA 55 80 68 41 6 4 Q14 Greater Manchester Strategic HA 106 85 78 21 8 11 Q15 Cheshire and Merseyside Strategic HA 101 111 64 59 26 11 Q16 Thames Valley Strategic HA 16 17 14 11 9 7 Q17 Hampshire and Isle of Wight Strategic HA 998110 Q18 Kent and Medway Strategic HA 16 21 20 23 4 7 Q19 Surrey and Sussex Strategic HA 42 32 33 21 4 8 Q20 Avon, Gloucestershire and Wiltshire Strategic HA 37 38 36 26 0 0 Q21 South West Peninsula Strategic HA 19 16 15 9 1 2 Q22 Dorset and Somerset Strategic HA 4 8 5 11 4 4 Q23 South Yorkshire Strategic HA 113 111 75 59 32 38 457W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 458W

Count of deliveries by drug dependent mothers (excluding alcohol and tobacco) by strategic health authority of residence, 2005-06 to 2000-01 Code Strategic health authority 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 2002-03 2001-02 2000-01

Q24 Trent Strategic HA 51 58 44 46 21 12 025 Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and Rutland Strategic 15 20 28 13 11 7 HA Q26 Shropshire and Staffordshire Strategic HA 65 55 43 28 1 2 Q27 Birmingham and the Black Country Strategic HA 158 135 80 42 5 7 Q28 West Midlands South Strategic HA 35 32 18 8 0 1

Other/unknown 13 12 6 14 1 2

Total 1,175 1,109 878 607 223 184

Count of deliveries by drug dependent mothers (excluding alcohol and tobacco) by strategic health authority of residence, 2009-10 to 2006-07 Code Strategic health authority 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07

Q30 North East Strategic Health Authority 132 111 125 157 031 North West Strategic Health Authority 302 245 273 296 Q32 Yorkshire and the Humber Strategic Health Authority 282 242 250 215 Q33 East Midland Strategic Health Authority 165 132 144 78 Q34 West Midlands Strategic Health Authority 300 291 298 274 035 East of England Strategic Health Authority 80 75 61 74 Q36 London Strategic Health Authority 90 62 62 37 Q37 South East Coast Strategic Health Authority 67 60 54 45 Q38 South Central Strategic Health Authority 48 35 28 22 Q39 South West Strategic Health Authority 112 85 63 60 Other/unknown 13 14 24 21 Total 1,591 1,352 1,382 1,279

Count of deliveries by alcohol dependent mothers strategic health authority of residence, 2000-01 to 2005-06 Code Strategic health authority 2005-06 2004-05 2003-04 2002-03 2001-02 2000-01

Q01 Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire Strategic HA 122202 Q02 Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Strategic HA 000010 Q03 Essex Strategic HA 110100 Q04 North West London Strategic HA 010000 Q05 North Central London Strategic HA 010100 Q06 North East London Strategic HA 110011 O07 South East London Strategic HA 010000 Q08 South West London Strategic HA 111120 Q09 Northumberland, Tyne and Wear Strategic HA 425000 Q10 County Durham and Tees Valley Strategic HA 220000 Q11 North and East Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire 322000 Strategic HA Q12 West Yorkshire Strategic HA 103000 Q13 Cumbria and Lancashire Strategic HA 420100 Q14 Greater Manchester Strategic HA 492200 Q15 Cheshire and Merseyside Strategic HA 411111 Q16 Thames Valley Strategic HA 120000 Q17 Hampshire and Isle of Wight Strategic HA 100000 Q18 Kent and Medway Strategic HA 251120 Q19 Surrey and Sussex Strategic HA 013310 Q20 Avon, Gloucestershire and Wiltshire Strategic HA 100100 Q21 South West Peninsula Strategic HA 001001 Q22 Dorset and Somerset Strategic HA 001100 Q23 South Yorkshire Strategic HA 19 44112 Q24TrentStrategicHA 323150 Q25 Leicestershire, Northamptonshire and Rutland Strategic 1 1011 HA Q26 Shropshire and Staffordshire Strategic HA 040210 Q27 Birmingham and the Black Country Strategic HA 430320 Q28 West Midlands South Strategic HA 321000 Other/Unknown 100001 Total 62 49 31 22 18 9 459W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 460W

Count of deliveries by alcohol dependent mothers strategic health authority of residence, 2009-10 to 2006-07 Code Strategic health authority 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 2006-07

Q30 North East Strategic Health Authority 15 13 23 16 Q31 North West Strategic Health Authority 21 18 20 12 Q32 Yorkshire and the Humber Strategic Health Authority 15 21 22 16 033 East Midland Strategic Health Authority 7 7 8 7 Q34 West Midlands Strategic Health Authority 10 17 9 10 Q35 East of England Strategic Health Authority 6 5 2 5 036 London Strategic Health Authority 14 6 5 8 Q37 South East Coast Strategic Health Authority 8 4 6 4 Q38 South Central Strategic Health Authority 3 4 1 1 Q39 South West Strategic Health Authority 7 3 5 3 Other/unknown 1 2 0 0 Total 107 100 101 82 Notes: 1. Finished Consultant Episode (FCE) A finished consultant episode (FCE) is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one health care provider. FCEs are counted against the year in which they end. Figures do not represent the number of different patients, as a person may have more than one episode of care within the same stay in hospital or in different stays in the same year. Type of episode used: 2 = Delivery episode 5 = Other delivery event 2. Secondary diagnosis As well as the primary diagnosis, there are up to 19 (13 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and six prior to 2002-03) secondary diagnosis fields in Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) that show other diagnoses relevant to the episode of care. 3. All Diagnoses count of episodes ICD-10 code used: Z37. Outcome of delivery (must always been found in the first secondary position) F10.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of alcohol, dependence syndrome F11.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of opioids, dependence syndrome F12.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of cannabinoids, dependence syndrome F13.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of sedatives or hypnotics, dependence syndrome F14.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to. use of cocaine, dependence syndrome F15.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of other stimulants, including caffeine, dependence syndrome F16.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of hallucinogens, dependence syndrome F18.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of volatile solvents, dependence syndrome F19.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to multiple drug use and use of other psychoactive substances, dependence syndrome The above codes indicate addiction to all types of drugs. For example F11.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of opioids, would include addiction to Heroin and also Opioids found in prescription drugs. Code F19.2 Mental and behavioural disorders due to multiple drug use and use of other psychoactive substances is only used when patterns of psychoactive substance-taking are chaotic and indiscriminate or when the contributions of different psychoactive substances are inextricably mixed. 4. SHA/PCT of residence The strategic health authority (SHA) or primary care trust (PCX) containing the patient’s normal home address. This does not necessarily reflect where the patient was treated as they may have travelled to another SHA/PCT for treatment. 5. Assessing growth through time HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the figures over time need to be interpreted in the context of improvements in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from 2006-07) and changes in NHS practice. For example, apparent reductions in activity may be due to a number of procedures which may now be undertaken in out-patient settings and so no longer include in admitted patient HES data. 6. Data quality HES are compiled from data sent by more than 300 NHS trusts and PCTs in England and from some independent sector organisations for activity commissioned by the English NHS. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care liaises closely with these organisations to encourage submission of complete and valid data and seeks to minimise inaccuracies. While this brings about improvement over time, some shortcomings remain. 7. Activity included Activity in English NHS Hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector. 8.For all years the total number of cases is higher when looking at the total broken down by drug use compared to the drug grouping figures. This is because there will be several cases where the mother has been diagnosed as using more than one type of drug and those drugs have been recognised. It should be noted that count of deliveries will not give a full count of births, as twins would count as only one delivery. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care

Dental Services: Finance dental charges paid by patients, which are retained locally by primary care trusts (PCTs) to supplement the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State resources available for dentistry. PCTs may also dedicate for Health how much funding was allocated to NHS some of their other national health service resources to dental services in each of the last five years. [81921] dentistry if they consider this an appropriate local priority. Actual expenditure levels are determined by the pattern and type of services commissioned by each Mr Simon Burns: The primary care dental allocations PCT and are recorded in the notes to PCT accounts. for the last five years, plus the current year, are as set out in the following table. These are net of income from 461W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 462W

Primary dental service net funding allocations can be most effective in understanding and representing Net allocations (£ million) the voice of the whole community including young people. 2007-08 1,872.44 2008-09 2,081.00 2009-10 2,257.00 Diabetes: Health Services 2010-11 2,269.95 2011-12 2,318.54 Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Note: what steps he plans to take to ensure sufficient numbers For the years up until 2011-12 the dental primary care allocation of paediatric diabetes specialist nurses and diabetes included funding for dental vocational trainees. For 2011-12 this nurses to meet the needs of people with diabetes. [R] funding element, some £81 million net of patient charges, was separately [82021] allocated as part of a larger regional workforce funding stream. To allow comparisons, this has been included in the national figures above. Mr Simon Burns: Workforce planning is a matter for local national health service organisations. They are Departmental Private Finance Initiative best placed to assess the health needs of their local health community and will commission the required Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health number of training places to develop the workforce to what the (a) cost, (b) date of commencement and (c) meet those needs. duration is of each private finance initiative contract A safety and quality assurance process has been managed by his Department. [82209] developed to ensure that any significant change proposed in the clinical workforce has involved clinicians at all Mr Simon Burns: Information on signed private finance levels, maximising on their engagement, leadership and initiative (PFI) projects that were signed prior to 16 March sign off. 2011 is available on the Treasury’s website at: www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/ppp_pfi_stats.htm Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what training his Department provides to (a) diabetes No national health service PFI projects have been specialist nurses, (b) doctors and (c) other healthcare signed since 16 March 2011. professionals on provision of support and medical In addition to listing the project name and responsible assistance to adolescents and young adults with department the information available includes the capital diabetes. [R] [82022] value of the asset and associated unitary charge payments, the date the contract was signed and the operational Anne Milton: The content and standard of health period of the contract. care training is the responsibility of the independent regulatory bodies for the professions concerned. Through Diabetes their role as the custodians of standards in education and practice, these organisations are committed to ensuring high quality patient care is delivered by health professionals Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and that health care professionals are equipped with the if he will make it his policy to support the establishment knowledge, skills and behaviours required to deal with of citizen commissions to advise, report and make the problems and conditions they will encounter in decisions on issues affecting people with diabetes as practice, including diabetes. part of his proposed health and wellbeing boards; and if he will bring forward proposals to ensure that there is adequate youth representation on such commissions Diabetes: Nurses and boards. [R] [82020] Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Paul Burstow: Health and wellbeing boards will promote what plans he has to develop and implement a standardised joined up commissioning that will support integrated national competency framework for diabetes specialist provision of services across health, public health and nurses. [R] [81535] social care. This should mean that groups such as diabetes service users should experience health and care Anne Milton: It is the role of the Nursing and Midwifery services that are better joined up and better meet their Council (NMC) to set standards of education, training, needs as individuals. conduct and performance so that nurses and midwives Health and wellbeing boards will have a legal duty to can deliver high quality healthcare consistently throughout involve users and the public when developing the Joint their careers. Higher Educational Institutes are responsible Strategic Needs Assessment and joint health and wellbeing for running educational programmes which are approved strategy and to pay due regard to the public sector by the NMC. Within this framework employers can Equality Duty. We also expect local HealthWatch expand nursing practice. organisations to use their membership on health and In addition to the responsibilities of the NMC, from wellbeing boards to play a role in ensuring the voices of 1 April 2013, subject to parliamentary approval, Health the whole community including young people are heard Education England will bring together all the relevant and fed into the work of the boards. We are exploring parties, particularly employers, to oversee and shape the with early implementer health and wellbeing boards development of the health and care workforce and to how they can embed public engagement in their work, promote high quality education and training which is including with young people, and with some HealthWatch responsive to the changing needs of patients and local pathfinders who are focusing on how local HealthWatch communities. 463W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 464W

The Government consider that diabetes specialist Anne Milton: We are keeping the international evidence nurses are an essential part of the diabetes specialist on the impact of fiscal measures under review. team and have a valuable part to play in supporting people with diabetes. It is local healthcare organisations, with their knowledge of the healthcare needs of their General Practitioners local populations, that are best placed to determine the work force required to deliver safe patient care within their available resources. Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he has taken to ensure that his Department’s Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health guidance on removing patients from GP lists is followed what plans he has to introduce a separate tariff for (a) by GPs. [81363] initiation of patients onto insulin pumps and insulin therapy, (b) commencing blood glucose monitoring Mr Simon Burns: The procedures which general and (c) other procedures carried out by diabetes practitioner (GP) contractors must follow when considering specialist nurses and not currently recognised in removal of a patient from their list are set out in existing payment mechanisms. [R] [81558] regulations and are included in their national health service contract with their primary care trust. It is the Mr Simon Burns: There is currently a non-mandatory responsibility of the primary care trust to take any best practice tariff for paediatric diabetes. Details can resulting action should a contractor not follow these be found in the “Payment by Results Guidance for procedures. 2011-12”, a copy of which has been placed in the Library. This is being further developed for 2012-13. It Under the terms of its contract, a GP practice may has been designed to support access to consistent high remove any patient from its list of NHS patients if it quality care. believes that it has reasonable grounds for doing so, for example, if a patient has moved out of the practice area A range of other activities relating to the provision of or has been violent. care for diabetes patients are covered by the national mandatory tariff. Activity that is outside the scope of No one should be left without access to a GP practice. the tariff, such as services provided in a community If anyone who has been removed from a practice list has setting, are reimbursed through prices that are agreed difficulty in finding another practice, the primary care locally. trust may assign them to another GP contractor’s list. Insulin pumps are currently excluded from tariff and paid for at locally negotiated prices to ensure that Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for providers are adequately reimbursed. Health how many people were registered with GPs in We are considering the development of a best practice (a) NHS Eastern and Coastal Kent, (b) NHS Medway, tariff for pump therapy. (c) NHS West Kent and (d) England in (i) 2008-09, (ii) 2009-10 and (iii) 2010-11. [81551] Dialysis Machines Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is set Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State out in the following table, which has been supplied by for Health what plans his Department has for the the NHS Information Centre for health and social care: long-term provision of dialysis facilities. [81922] GP registered patients in selected primary care trusts (PCTs) in Mr Simon Burns: Ensuring that there is sufficient England as at 2008-10 capacity to meet demand for dialysis is the responsibility 2008 2009 2010 of specialised national health service commissioners Eastern and Coastal 752,151 763,052 769,742 who commission these services. Kent PCT Medway PCT 274,190 280,008 281,320 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State West Kent PCT 695,807 700,851 707,200 for Health whether his Department has any plans to England 53,944,734 54,609,309 55,019,190 increase the provision and availability of home dialysis equipment. [81923]

Mr Simon Burns: Home therapies (peritoneal dialysis Health and Social Care Bill 2010-12 and home haemodialysis) offer huge benefits for kidney patients and are more cost-effective treatments than Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for haemodialysis in a hospital or satellite unit. However, Health with reference to the Information Commissioner’s they are not suited to everybody. We are working to recent ruling on his Department’s strategic risk register develop a tariff to incentivise offering patients the choice for the Health and Social Care Bill, if he will publish the of home haemodialysis where appropriate and we expect register (a) immediately or (b) before the deadline for that the tariff price will include an element for capital any related amendments to be tabled for the Lords costs such as the cost of home dialysis machines. Report Stage of the Bill; and if he will make a statement. Food: Taxation [82212]

Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: The Department is considering its Health what assessment his Department has made of response to the Information Commissioner’s decision the merits of applying additional taxation to foods of 2 November 2011 to require the release of the which are high in saturated fats. [82393] register, and expects to respond by early December. 465W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 466W

Health Professions: Pay Clinical Assessment Service, the number of doctors who were excluded or suspended at the end of each of Ian Swales: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the last five financial years, together with estimates of how much has been paid to suspended medical staff in the number of working weeks lost as a result, were as each of the last five years. [81905] follows: Mr Simon Burns: Information is not available in the form requested. According to data held by the National

2006-07 2007-08 2008- 09 2009- 10 2010- 11

Total number of exclusions and suspensions1 at end 102 107 106 107 94 March Estimated number of working weeks lost 5,370 5,420 5,930 6,060 5,220 1 Doctors in the hospital and community health service (exclusions) and in general practice (suspensions) in England

Injuries: Dogs Muscular Dystrophy

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) whether data on the cost to the public purse Health what information his Department holds on of treating dog attacks is held by individual health progress in setting up a managed clinical network for trusts; [81848] neuromuscular conditions in each NHS region; and if (2) what assessment he has made of long-term trends he will make a statement. [82066] in the cost to the public purse of treating injuries caused by dog attacks. [81849] Paul Burstow: During 2010-11, the 10 regional Specialised Commissioning Groups (SCGs) and National Specialised Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not require Commissioning team (NSCT) collaborated to produce individual national health service trusts to report on a detailed work plan for neuromuscular services. costs associated with treating patients admitted to hospital as a result of a dog attack. However, the hon. Member This neuromuscular workstream is led by East of may wish to contact trusts directly to confirm whether England SCG working with the individual SCG/NSCT they hold this information. neuromuscular leads. In July, a more formal group was The Department has not made an assessment of established and the existing work plan was enlarged to trends in respect of the costs of treating these injuries. include communications and engagement. However, Ministers in the Department for Environment, A workshop to which patients, carers and support Food and Rural Affairs have been working closely with organisations have been invited is scheduled for later Government and non-government organisations to prepare this year. a package of measures to encourage more responsible dog ownership and reduce dog attacks. This work is nearing completion and an announcement will be made NHS: Disclosure of Information by that Department shortly.

Sir Peter Bottomley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mercury: Health Hazards Health when he plans to respond to concerns about adverse experiences of individual NHS staff and instances where an NHS trust has followed discipline Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for or dismissal of a staff member by secret settlements Health what assessment he has made of the effects of with compromise agreement gagging provision; and if any ban on the use of dental amalgam; and if he will he will make a statement. [81626] make a statement. [R] [81724]

Mr Simon Burns: A ban would be detrimental to the Mr Simon Burns: All non-contractual ’special’ severance delivery of high quality dental services particularly payments for employees or ex employees, who may have where patients required replacement of existing amalgam been dismissed following disciplinary action, must be fillings. In February 2009, the Governing Council of the approved by HM Treasury. NHS trusts are required to United Nations Environment programme agreed on the ensure that any proposals to make such payments are need to develop a global legally binding instrument that sent to the Department of Health initially for scrutiny. “protects human health and the global environment from the The use of a confidentiality clause within a compromise release of mercury and its compounds by minimising and, where agreement or a contract of employment is void insofar feasible, ultimately eliminating global anthropogenic release to as it purports to preclude the employee from making a air water and land”. protected disclosure under the Public Interest Disclosure The work to prepare this instrument is being undertaken Act (PIDA) i.e. the protection of ’whistle blowers’. by an intergovernmental negotiating committee. We are Therefore, payments made to employees under a seeking to reach an agreement by which dental amalgam compromise agreement with a confidentiality clause will continue to be available within any additional measures that seeks to prevent an employee or an ex employee to control the disposal of waste and emissions. from making a disclosure under PIDA would be void. 467W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 468W

Before an employee considers signing a compromise Mr Simon Burns: The Department recognises the agreement, which may or may not contain a confidentiality benefits of good quality accessible information for patients. clause, the employer is required to pay for the employee The national health service, third parties performing to have independent legal advice on the terms of the public functions on its behalf and the Department are agreement. already subject to the public sector equality duty in section 149 of the Equality Act 2010 which requires NHS: Pay public authorities to pay due regard to eliminating discrimination and advancing equality of opportunity. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health In practice this means that the Department and NHS how many NHS employees of each sex had an annual organisations provide information to patients in alternative salary (a) below £15,000 per year and (b) between formats and languages where appropriate. £15,000 and £21,000 per year in the latest period for As part of the Department’s wider ambition to give which figures are available. [82227] people more information and control over their care, our consultation document “Liberating the NHS: An Mr Simon Burns: Validated information to this level Information Revolution”, published in October 2010, of detail is not held centrally. However, it is possible to sought views on how to improve the accessibility of make the following estimates using the information information to patients, including those requiring available. information in languages other than English and those The number of employees with a salary below £15,000 using learning disabilities services. A copy has already per year is estimated at around 95,000. Of which, around been placed in the Library. The Department’s Information 72,000 are female and around 23,000 are male. Strategy will respond to that consultation and is planned The number of employees with salary between £15,000 to be published in the winter. and £21,000 per year is estimated at around 320,000. Of which, around 260,000 are female and around 60,000 are male. NHS: Reorganisation Notes: 1. Figures are as of June 2011. Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for 2. Estimates relate to headcount NHS Hospital and Community Health when he plans to publish his Department’s risk Health Services staff. Bank staff are not considered. assessment of the reforms proposed in the Health and 3. ‘Salary’ is taken to be full-time equivalent basic pay per year. Social Care Bill. [81500] This is consistent with the criteria used to identify lower earners eligible for the minimum £250 pay awards. Mr Simon Burns: Following a Freedom of Information 4. Numbers in each salary band are estimated using unvalidated request to release the Transition risk register and a data on the distribution of staff across agenda for change payscale decision by the Department to withhold it, the Department points from the electronic staff record (ESR) data warehouse. is considering its response to the Information 5. The ESR data warehouse is a monthly snapshot of the live ESR Commissioner’s decision of 2 November 2011 to require system, which is a payroll and human resources system containing staff records for NHS employed staff in England. its release, and expects to respond by early December. It contains records on all NHS staff except for those in the The Department published Impact Assessments following groups: accompanying the Health and Social Care Bill in January General practitioners (GPs), GP practice staff and other primary 2011, which were revised in September 2011 (’Equity care providers e.g. dentists; and Excellence: Liberating the NHS, Health and Social Foundation Trusts (Moorfields Eye hospital NHS Foundation Care Bill 2011 Impact Assessments’). These included an Trust and Chesterfield Royal Hospital NHS Foundation Trust); assessment of risk. and those staff groups affected by Transforming Community Services where the service is now provided by a non-NHS Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for organisation. Health (1) what assessment he has made of the Information Commissioner’s decision on the disclosure of his NHS: Pensions Department’s risk assessment of the reforms proposed in the Health and Social Care Bill; [81501] Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (2) whether he plans to comply with the Information how many NHS employees have received more than Commissioner’s decision on the disclosure of risk £30,800 in employer pension contributions in each assessments relating to the Health and Social Care Bill. financial year since 1997. [82229] [81505] Mr Simon Burns: Reliable information, is not available and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Mr Simon Burns: The Department is considering its response to the Information Commissioner’s decision NHS: Publications of 2 November to require its release, and expects to respond by early December. Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to ensure that information Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for for patients is provided in accessible formats for (a) Health what risk assessments (a) his Department and non-English speakers, (b) partially-sighted people and (b) independent consultants contracted by his Department (c) those with learning disabilities; and if he will make have undertaken on the potential effects of the Health a statement. [81364] and Social Care Bill. [81502] 469W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 470W

Mr Simon Burns: The Department published Impact The Department will continue to keep this area under Assessments accompanying the Health and Social Care review, including through discussion in the Food Network Bill in January 2011, which were revised in September of the Public Health Responsibility Deal in the coming 2011 (’Equity and Excellence: Liberating the NHS, year. Health and Social Care Bill 2011 Impact Assessments’). These included an assessment of risk. It also maintains Obesity: Health Services a register of transition risks associated with the Health and Care reforms that is updated regularly. In addition, in common with other Government Departments, the Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for Department has commissioned a number of Office of Health what research his Department has commissioned Government Commerce Gateway reviews to provide on (a) the effect of obesity on the NHS and (b) how additional assurance external to the Department in effective care can be given to patients suffering from specific areas of the reform programme. More reviews obesity-related health problems. [81598] are planned for the new year. Mr Simon Burns: Excess weight is a major cause of type 2 diabetes, heart disease and cancer and is estimated Nurses: Crimes of Violence to cost the national health service over £5 billion a year. The care and treatment of patients who are suffering from conditions as a result of being overweight or obese Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State is a matter for their clinical team. for Health what mechanisms his Department has put in place to provide support for nurses who have been The Department’s National Institute for Health Research assaulted in the workplace. [81919] (NIHR) and Policy Research Programme (PRP) fund a wide range of research relating to the effect of obesity on the NHS and care for patients with diseases and Mr Simon Burns: Each national health service body conditions for which obesity is a risk factor. has a duty to address the risks of violence to their staff and to support staff who are assaulted. Details of projects funded through programmes managed by the NIHR Central Commissioning Facility (CCF) Many NHS bodies provide employee assistance can be found on the CCF website at: programmes for their staff, through which employees who have been assaulted can access confidential counselling. www.ccf.nihr.ac.uk/Pages/FundedProgrammes.aspx Details of projects funded through programmes managed NHS Protect is the body responsible for leading work by the NIHR Evaluation, Trials and Studies Centre to tackle violence against NHS staff. The published (NETSCC) can be found on the NETSCC website at; agreement between NHS Protect, the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Crown Prosecution Service www.netscc.ac.uk/ outlines how the parties should work together to provide Details of studies hosted by the NIHR Clinical Research support for the victims of assault. This includes keeping Network can be found on the UK Clinical Research victims updated on the progress police investigation, Network portfolio database at: decisions on charging or prosecution, consideration of http://public.ukcrn.org.uk/search out of court disposals, such as conditional cautions and Details of research awards managed by the NIHR penalty notices for disorder and the provision of personal Trainees Coordinating Centre (TCC) can be found on impact statements from victims of assault prior to the TCC website at: sentencing. www.nihrtcc.nhs.uk/ Each NHS body must nominate a local specialist to Details of research funded by the PRP are available manage security locally. This role includes identifying on the Department’s website at: the level of support required by victims of assault and working with the police and the Crown Prosecution http://prp.dh.gov.uk/category/funded-research/ Service to support them. NHS Protect supports the NHS locally by providing training on all aspects of Obesity: Surgery security management, including support for victims of assault. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the cost to the public purse was of (a) gastric bands, (b) each public health campaign relating to Nutrition: Children obesity and (c) other NHS weight loss services in each financial year since 1997. [82070] Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has to reduce the exposure of Anne Milton: The Department does not hold information children to marketing of unhealthy food and drink. on the cost to primary care trusts of providing patients [82394] with a gastric band or of providing weight management services. Anne Milton: The United Kingdom already has an The Change4Life campaign was launched in January extensive system of controls on marketing of foods that 2009 to raise awareness of diet and physical activity, are high in salt, fat or sugar to children. A recent review and to create a mass movement to reduce obesity levels. by Ofcom indicates that children’s exposure to television Approximately £50 million was spent on the Change4Life advertising for these foods has fallen by 37% since the campaign in 2008-09 and 2009-10, and around introduction of controls and that advertising of unhealthy £10 million was spent in 2010-11. The budget for 2011-12 foods has been eliminated during children’s airtime. is £8.5 million. 471W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 472W

Prior to 2009, the Government have a range of initiatives Anne Milton: It is for the national health service to provide individuals with information on diet, and locally to ensure appropriate facilities, services and physical activity to prevent obesity. networks are in place to meet the needs of their local population. Patients: Per Capita Costs The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence published clinical guidelines on postnatal care in 2006 Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for which set out the core care that women and babies Health what the expenditure per capita was in NHS should be offered during the first six to eight weeks Medway in (a) 2008-09, (b) 2009-10 and (c) 2010-11. after the birth. Every mother and baby will have an [81525] individual plan of care which may include additional care to that in the core guidance. Mr Simon Burns: The information is shown in the The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists following table. Standards for Maternity Care (published in 2008) state Amount spent per head of population in 2008-09 to 2010-11 by that all health professionals involved in the care of Medway primary care trust (PCT) women following childbirth should refer women for £ support according to their needs. 2008-09 1,331 2009-10 1,581 Prescriptions: Fees and Charges 2010-11 1,644 Notes: Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 1. Expenditure per capita is interpreted to mean the total revenue whether his Department plans to review the prescription expenditure of the PCT (the net operating costs). charges system in the next 12 months; whether any such 2. The net operating cost is taken from the audited summarisation schedules of Medway PCT for 2008-09 to 2010-11. This figure is review will involve consultation with (a) patients’ groups divided by the PCT’s resident population to derive the spend-per-head and (b) charities; and if he will make a statement. figures provided above. [81411] Source: Audited Summarisation Schedules Mr Simon Burns: I refer the hon. Member to the Physiotherapy: Eastern Region answer I gave to the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) on 4 May 2011, Official Report, Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for columns 856-57W. Health what the average waiting time for a referral for physiotherapy is (a) in Bedford, (b) in the East of England and (c) nationally. [81888] ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is currently not collected centrally. The allied health professional Carbon Emissions (AHP) Referral to Treatment (RTT) Guide, published in 2010, sets out a framework of rules for clock starts Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for and clock stops to measure waiting times for patients Energy and Climate Change if he will estimate the when accessing national health service AHP services additional carbon emissions which would be generated including physiotherapy. by an additional 10 million people projected to reside in Nationally, AHP RTT data collection and reporting the UK by 2033; and if he will estimate the additional was due to be mandated from April 2011, however, as renewable energy capacity which would be needed to part of the public health spending reviews, the abate the emissions arising from such a rise in population implementation date for collecting data is being reviewed. and maintain emissions at their current level. [81275] In the meantime, it is expected that local NHS organisations will collect this data locally to help them identify where Gregory Barker: The latest official Government service improvement is most needed. projections by DECC for greenhouse gas emissions Work between the Department and the NHS Information including carbon dioxide were published in October Centre is in place to ensure the development and mandate 2011: of data sets by which the AHP RTT data collected http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/about/ec_social_res/ locally can be flowed to a central source for national analytic_projs/en_emis_projs/en_emis_projs.aspx reporting. These provide projections for the period up to 2030. The Allied Health Professional Referral to Treatment Projections beyond 2030 are not available. The projections Guide can be found at: assume that the UK population increases by 6.8 million http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/ between 2010 and 2030. This is the ONS principal 2008 dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/@ps/documents/digitalasset/ based population projection, low migration variant. dh_115297.pdf The 2008 based population projections were used because these were the latest available at the time of publication. Postnatal Depression The low migration variant assumption is used because this is the population assumption used by the Office for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Budget Responsibility for GDP growth projections which for Health what recent assessment he has made of the also feed into the emissions projections. Projections adequacy of the level of support offered to women under a scenario in which the UK population increased with postnatal health problems. [81920] by 10 million are not available. 473W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 474W

Over the period 2010 to 2030 emissions are projected international competitiveness is most affected by our to fall by 168 MtCO2e from 586 MtCO2e to 418 MtCO2e. energy and climate change policies. We will announce Carbon dioxide emissions are projected to fall by 146 details before the end of the year. MtCO2 from 496 MtCO2 to 350 MtCO2 over the same period. The projected fall is attributable to a range of Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs factors including policy impacts on energy efficiency and increased use of renewable energy. Under the central scenario assumptions in the emissions projections, renewable Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for energy demand is projected to increase by 23 Mega Energy and Climate Change what the average cost per tonnes of oil equivalent (Mtoe) from 8.2 Mtoe to 30.9 household was of the feed-in tariff scheme between Mtoe between 2010 and 2030. Renewables electricity April 2010 and October 2011. [81078] generation capacity is projected to increase by 33 GW from 9 GW to 42 GW over the same period. As explained Gregory Barker: Ofgem estimate that the cost of the in the report, the generation and capacity mix is dependent FITs scheme for 2010-11 was £14.4 million. Based on on a number of assumptions. Other assumptions would 26.3 million domestic customers, and domestic supply lead to projected electricity demand being met by different representing 38% of total electricity supply this would capacity and generation mixes. have added approximately 21p to a domestic consumer’s annual electricity bill for 2010-11. The projections show that, under central assumptions, existing policies, including those that support increased Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for use of renewable energy, are sufficient to ensure emissions Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made continue to fall up until 2030 despite the projected of how much the feed-in tariff added to energy prices increase in population of 6.8 million. in percentage terms in each of the last three years. [81384] Energy: Business Gregory Barker: Ofgem estimate feed-in tariff (FIT) Ian Swales: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy scheme costs for financial year 2010-11 (the first year of and Climate Change (1) what assessment he has made the FITs scheme) were £14.4 million. Based on 26.3 of the potential effects of planned mitigation measures million domestic customers, and domestic supply for energy-intensive industries facing increased energy representing 38% of total electricity supply this would prices as a result of the introduction of the carbon have added approximately 21p (less than 1%) to a floor price; [81904] domestic consumer’s annual electricity bill for 2010-11. (2) what lessons his Department has learnt from Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Germany on ensuring that energy-intensive industries Energy and Climate Change how much was paid to can operate competitively in the UK; and if he will generators of renewable energy under his Department’s make a statement; [81906] feed-in tariff scheme in quarter (a) one and (b) two of (3) which energy-intensive industries will receive 2011-12; and if he will make a statement. [82187] mitigation to counteract the effect of the carbon floor price on their production costs; and what plans there Gregory Barker: Ofgem estimate generation and export are to extend measures to gas-intensive industries in the tariff payments (deemed and metered) for installations future. [81908] under the FIT scheme in Q1 of FIT Year 2 (April-June 2011) to be £10,101,593.26. Gregory Barker: I am working closely with Government The corresponding data for Q2 of FITs Year 2 has colleagues to deliver the commitment the Government not been published yet. gave earlier this year to create a package of measures to It should be noted that this estimate is based on support those energy intensive industries whose payments data which were provided by FIT suppliers as international competitiveness is most affected by our part of the levelisation process. The periodic levelisation energy and climate change policies. We will announce process uses payments claimed rather than payments details before the end of the year. made.

Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (1) what plans he has to Energy and Climate Change what workings and make the UK a more competitive environment for assumptions were used as the basis of the calculations energy-intensive industries following the Minister for included in paragraph 10 of his Department’s press Climate Change’s recent visit to Germany; [82061] notice 11/091 of 31 October 2011 on the cost to consumers’ (2) whether mitigation measures will enable the UK’s annual domestic electricity bills in 2020 of supporting energy-intensive industries to compete on a level feed-in tariffs for solar photovoltaic at the current rate. playing field internationally following the introduction [82211] of the carbon price floor; and what plans there are to extend such measures to the UK’s gas-intensive Gregory Barker: The DECC press notice stated that industries in the future. [82062] supporting solar photovoltaic (PV) at the current rate would add £26 to the average domestic electricity bill in Gregory Barker: I am working closely with Government 2020. colleagues to deliver the commitment the Government This is based on our estimates that at current FITs gave earlier this year to create a package of measures to tariff levels, £9.1/MWh would be added to the electricity support those energy intensive industries whose price in 2020, and that average annual domestic electricity 475W Written Answers23 NOVEMBER 2011 Written Answers 476W consumption, accounting for energy efficiency savings he has received from those (a) supporting and (b) as a result of energy and climate change policies1, will opposing the development of solar photovoltaic be 2.9 MWh in 2020, Multiplying these together gives (i) sites and (ii) feed-in tariffs. [82251] £26. 1 Energy efficiency savings as a result of policies reducing electricity Gregory Barker: During the development of the consumption in 2020 include Carbon Emissions Reduction Target consultation ministers and officials met with a range of (CERT), CERT Extension, Community Energy Saving Programme, stakeholders. Green Deal and Energy Company Obligation, Products Policy Details of meetings between DECC Ministers and and Smart Meters. external organisations are published quarterly on the Solar Power DECC website. Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what meetings (a) he and (b) his Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for officials have had with representatives of the UK (i) Energy and Climate Change what information his solar and (ii) nuclear industry in the last 12 months. Department holds on (a) rates paid, (b) how long [82188] scheme have operated, (c) installed capacity and (d) how much average domestic power bills have increased Gregory Barker: Ministers and officials meet regularly in other EU member states with solar photovoltaic with a range of stakeholders from both the solar feed-in tariff schemes in the last five years. [82239] photovoltaic and nuclear industry. Details of meetings between DECC Ministers and Gregory Barker: The Department has met with and external organisations are published quarterly on the discussed as well as researched a range of other feed-in DECC website. tariff schemes which are available in other countries. Every scheme is different and the amount of information Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for available to us varies. We have rate information, length Energy and Climate Change what proportion of of operation and some data on installed capacity for a electricity demand could be met by solar PV. [82237] good number of schemes; all this information is publicly available. We do not hold any information on how much Gregory Barker: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer average domestic power bills have increased in other I gave to the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex EU member states with solar photovoltaic feed-in tariff Cunningham), on 21 November 2011, Official Report, schemes in the last five years. column 43W. In addition a report by Arup, published by DECC Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for alongside the recent renewables obligation consultation1, Energy and Climate Change which representatives from suggests that solar PV could generate up to 5.4 TWh by the solar photovoltaic industry were consulted when 2020 (and 19.2 TWh by 2030) in financially unconstrained drawing up the timetable for (a) the implementation of scenarios. These would represent extremely ambitious and (b) consultation on the new rates for solar photovoltaic level of deployment given the current costs and conversion tariffs. [82242] efficiencies of solar PV, the land required and UK levels of insulation. Gregory Barker: During the development of the consultation ministers and officials met with a range of 1 http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/conient/cms/consultations/cons_ro_ review/cons_ro_review.aspx stakeholders from the solar photovoltaic industry. Details of meetings between DECC Ministers and Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for external organisations are published quarterly on the Energy and Climate Change how many representations DECC website. ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 23 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. WALES...... 277 WALES—continued Broadcasting ...... 286 Inflation...... 281 Economic Situation...... 284 Inward Investment ...... 283 Enterprise Zones...... 282 SMEs ...... 285 Feed-in Tariff Review...... 281 Unemployment ...... 278 Fuel Prices ...... 277 Youth Unemployment...... 280 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 23 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 26WS HEALTH...... 20WS Employment Law Review...... 26WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council ...... 20WS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 25WS Committee on Standards in Public Life (13th HOME DEPARTMENT...... 21WS Report) ...... 25WS Migration (Bulgarian and Romanian Workers)...... 21WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 22WS EDUCATION...... 19WS Burma...... 22WS Tackling Child Sexual Exploitation...... 19WS TRANSPORT ...... 23WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 20WS Civil Aviation Bill...... 24WS Locarno Group...... 20WS Parliamentary Written Question (Correction)...... 23WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 23 November 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 421W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 438W Serious Fraud Office ...... 421W Arts...... 438W Creative Industries ...... 438W Departmental Manpower...... 438W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 449W Gambling: Internet ...... 439W Cluster Munitions...... 449W Independent Commercial Television Broadcast EU Social Chapter ...... 450W Sector...... 439W European Agency and Temporary Workers Museums: Libraries ...... 439W Directive ...... 450W Olympic Games 2012: Finance...... 441W Export Controls: Arms Trade ...... 450W Sport England: Third Sector ...... 443W Export Credits Guarantees: Arms Trade...... 451W Health: Working Hours...... 451W Local Economic Partnership...... 452W DEFENCE...... 443W National Savings and Investments: Post Offices ..... 452W Armed Forces: Recruitment ...... 443W Postal Services...... 453W Defence...... 443W Science: Inflation ...... 454W Departmental Manpower...... 443W Dubai...... 444W Ex-servicemen: Mental Health...... 444W CABINET OFFICE...... 454W Gurkhas...... 444W Civil Servants: Pensions ...... 454W Liyba ...... 445W Metastatic Melanoma ...... 455W Met Office...... 445W Young People: Voluntary Work...... 456W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 408W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 428W Parliamentary Privilege...... 408W Empty Property: Halifax...... 428W Fire Services: Costs ...... 428W EDUCATION...... 445W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 429W Children: Disability...... 445W Growing Places Fund...... 430W Children: Protection...... 446W Gurkhas: Aldershot ...... 430W Cultural Education Review ...... 446W Housing: Disadvantaged...... 430W Drugs: Health Education ...... 446W Mobile Homes: Licensing ...... 431W First Aid: Education ...... 447W Rescue Services: Manpower ...... 431W Life Skills...... 447W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 431W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 447W Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION—continued HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Schools: Sports ...... 448W Detention Centres...... 400W Teachers: Pensions ...... 448W Detention Centres: Children ...... 401W Vocational Education...... 449W Detention Centres: Scotland ...... 402W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 449W Detention Orders: Females ...... 402W Drugs: Dogs...... 403W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 472W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 403W Carbon Emissions...... 472W Gurkhas...... 403W Energy: Business ...... 473W Human Trafficking: Telephone Services...... 404W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 474W Immigrants: Detainees ...... 404W Solar Power...... 475W Immigration...... 405W Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs...... 476W Members: Correspondence ...... 405W Police: Manpower ...... 405W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 406W AFFAIRS...... 422W Agriculture: Capital Allowances ...... 422W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 420W Departmental Judicial Review...... 422W Telephone Tapping...... 420W Departmental Manpower...... 423W Departmental Meetings ...... 424W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 422W Departmental Training ...... 424W Democratic Republic of Congo ...... 422W Fisheries: Birds of Prey...... 424W Nicaragua ...... 422W Flood and Water Management Act 2010 ...... 424W Hydroelectric Power: Regulation...... 425W JUSTICE...... 357W Legal Opinion...... 425W Children: Maintenance ...... 357W Poultry: EU Law...... 426W Contempt of Court: Sentencing...... 358W Rural Areas...... 427W Coroners and Justice Act 2009 ...... 357W Water Supply ...... 427W Crime: Victims ...... 359W Wild Mammals ...... 427W Cybercrime: Prosecutions...... 359W Offenders: Deportation...... 360W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 406W Prisoners: Death ...... 361W Iran: Nuclear Weapons ...... 406W Prisoners: Food...... 361W Jordan: Foreign Policy ...... 406W Prisons: Crimes of Violence ...... 366W Lebanon: Foreign Policy ...... 407W Prisons: Private Sector ...... 367W Libya: Foreign Relations...... 407W Prostitution: Criminal Injuries Compensation ...... 367W Rape: Criminal Injuries Compensation...... 368W HEALTH...... 456W Sexual Offences: Criminal Injuries Compensation . 368W Childbirth: Alcoholic Drinks ...... 456W Dental Services: Finance...... 459W SCOTLAND...... 410W Departmental Private Finance Initiative ...... 461W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 410W Diabetes ...... 461W Jobcentre Plus: Closures...... 409W Diabetes: Health Services...... 462W Diabetes: Nurses ...... 462W TRANSPORT ...... 409W Dialysis Machines ...... 463W Aviation: Exhaust Emissions...... 409W Food: Taxation...... 463W Aviation: Scotland...... 410W General Practitioners ...... 464W BMI ...... 411W Health and Social Care Bill 2010-12...... 464W Charities ...... 411W Health Professions: Pay...... 465W Departmental Consultants...... 411W Injuries: Dogs...... 465W East Coast Railway Line: Disability...... 413W Mercury: Health Hazards ...... 465W Government Procurement Card ...... 413W Muscular Dystrophy ...... 466W Motor Vehicles: Insurance ...... 414W NHS: Disclosure of Information ...... 466W Private Finance Initiative ...... 414W NHS: Pay...... 467W Public Transport: Finance...... 415W NHS: Pensions...... 467W Railway Stations: Standards...... 415W NHS: Publications ...... 467W Railway Stations: Tees Valley...... 415W NHS: Reorganisation...... 468W Railways: Disability ...... 416W Nurses: Crimes of Violence...... 469W Railways: Economic Situation...... 416W Nutrition: Children...... 469W Railways: Electrification ...... 416W Obesity: Health Services ...... 470W Railways: Franchises ...... 416W Obesity: Surgery...... 470W Railways: Snow and Ice...... 417W Patients: Per Capita Costs...... 471W Railways: Standards...... 417W Physiotherapy: Eastern Region ...... 471W Shipping...... 418W Postnatal Depression...... 471W Transport ...... 418W Prescriptions: Fees and Charges...... 472W Transport: Passengers ...... 418W Tugboats ...... 419W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 385W US Federal Aviation Administration: US 2010 Drugs Strategy...... 385W Department of Transportation ...... 420W Asylum ...... 385W Asylum: Libya...... 385W TREASURY ...... 432W Bolivia: Drugs...... 386W Big Society Capital: Barnsley ...... 432W British Nationality ...... 386W Big Society Capital: Charities ...... 432W Departmental Manpower...... 398W Corporation Tax: Northern Ireland ...... 432W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Departmental Legal Opinion ...... 432W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 371W Economic Growth: Northern Ireland...... 434W Employment and Support Allowance: Atos Energy Supply...... 435W Healthcare ...... 373W Housing: Unemployment...... 435W Employment Schemes ...... 375W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 436W European Union ...... 376W PAYE: Pilot Schemes ...... 436W Housing Benefit ...... 376W Public Expenditure...... 436W Incapacity Benefit ...... 376W Stamp Duty Land Tax ...... 437W Incapacity Benefit: Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 377W Tax Allowances: Travel...... 437W Job Creation: Intercity Express Programme...... 378W Taxation...... 437W Jobcentre Plus ...... 378W Personal Records: Departmental Coordination ..... 379W WALES...... 408W Remploy...... 379W Departmental Press Releases...... 409W Social Exclusion...... 380W Economic Growth...... 409W Social Security Benefits...... 381W Enterprise Zones...... 408W Unemployment: Northern Ireland ...... 383W Exports ...... 408W Universal Credit...... 383W Welfare Reform: Northern Ireland...... 383W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 370W Work Capability Assessment...... 384W Children: Poverty ...... 370W Work Capability Assessment: Multiple Sclerosis.... 384W Disability Living Allowance...... 371W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Wednesday 23 November 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 277] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Wales Prime Minister

Annual Energy Statement [Col. 299] Statement—(Chris Huhne)

Members of Parliament (Change of Political Party Affiliation) [Col. 317] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Chris Skidmore)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Opposition Day [Un-allotted day] Economic Growth and Employment [Col. 321] Motion—(Mr Umunna)—on a Division, negatived

Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff) [Col. 363] Amendment—(Chris Huhne)—on a Division, agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to

Bowel Cancer Screening [Col. 419] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Schengen Governance [Col. 427] Motion, on a deferred Division, agreed to

Westminster Hall Disability Hate Crime [Col. 75WH] Public Service Broadcasting (North-East) [Col. 98WH] Credit Unions [Col. 106WH] Morocco [Col. 130WH] Freeview Channels [Col. 138WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 19WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 357W] [see index inside back page]