COMMONWEALTH OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE BUDGET HEARING

DEPARTMENT OF STATE

STATE CAPITOL HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA ROOM 140, MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2017 3:00 P.M.

BEFORE: HONORABLE STANLEY SAYLOR, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE JOSEPH MARKOSEK, MINORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE HONORABLE JIM CHRISTIANA HONORABLE SHERYL DELOZIER HONORABLE GEORGE DUNBAR HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE WARREN KAMPF HONORABLE FRED KELLER HONORABLE HONORABLE NICK MICCARELLI HONORABLE HONORABLE MIKE PEIFER HONORABLE JEFF PYLE HONORABLE MARGUERITE QUINN HONORABLE HONORABLE JAMIE SANTORA HONORABLE HONORABLE KEVIN BOYLE HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE HONORABLE MADELEINE DEAN HONORABLE MARIA DONATUCCI HONORABLE MARTY FLYNN 2

1 BEFORE (continued):

2 HONORABLE EDWARD GAINEY HONORABLE 3 HONORABLE HONORABLE -BRANEKY 4 HONORABLE

5 NON-COMMITTEE MEMBERS: HONORABLE ELI EVANKOVICH 6 HONORABLE KRISTIN PHILLIPS-HILL HONORABLE ROSEMARY BROWN 7 HONORABLE RICK SACCONE HONORABLE CRIS DUSH 8 HONORABLE HONORABLE 9 HONORABLE HONORABLE ERIC NELSON 10 HONORABLE HONORABLE BRETT MILLER 11 HONORABLE HONORABLE 12 HONORABLE CAROLYN COMITTA HONORABLE 13 HONORABLE HONORABLE MATT BRADFORD 14 HONORABLE HONORABLE 15 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: 16 DAVID DONLEY MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 17 RITCHIE LaFAVER MAJORITY DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 18 MIRIAM FOX 19 DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TARA TREES 20 DEMOCRATIC CHIEF COUNSEL

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24 Ti ffany L . Ma st • Ma st Re porting 25 ma streporting@gmai l . com ( 717) 348- 1275 3

1 I N D E X

2 TESTIFIERS

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4 NAME PAGE 5 PEDRO CORTÉS SECRETARY, 6 DEPARTMENT OF STATE...... 5

7 MARIAN SCHNEIDER DEPUTY SECRETARY, 8 ELECTIONS AND ADMINISTRATION......

9 JUSTIN COWAN DIRECTOR, 10 BUREAU OF FINANCE AND OPERATIONS......

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12 SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY 13 * * * 14 (See submitted written testimony and handouts online.) 15

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

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3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We will

4 reconvene the hearing. Those who are

5 testifying, will you please rise and raise your

6 right hand.

7 (All testifiers were duly sworn by

8 Majority Chairman Saylor.)

9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you.

10 Secretary Pedro Cortés, will you please

11 proceed.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

13 Mr. Chairman, and members of the Appropriations

14 Committee and the chairs of the State

15 Government, as well as the Professional

16 Licensure Committee. Thank you so very much for

17 having the Department of State, giving us this

18 opportunity to discuss the Department's fiscal

19 year 2017-'18 budget.

20 I submitted in writing some remarks,

21 Mr. Chair. And in the interest of time, knowing

22 that there are many members that probably want

23 to ask questions, if it's okay with you, I

24 respectfully suggest that that testimony be

25 entered into the record without reading it, so 5

1 that we have a little bit more time, but I would

2 like to let everyone know that sitting here at

3 the table with me, to my right is Marian

4 Schneider, Deputy Secretary for Elections and

5 Administration at the Department of State; and

6 to my left is Justin Cowan, Director

7 of the Bureau of Finance and Operations.

8 With that, Mr. Chair, again, an honor to

9 be with you and all of the members.

10 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: Thank you.

11 Just a welcome from me. I don't have any

12 questions right now; I will just listen in. But

13 thank you for attending, and we'll look forward

14 to hearing your testimony.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Just to

17 remind everybody who is new in the room, please

18 make sure your cell phones are turned off. And

19 Mr. Secretary, and anybody who's testifying,

20 please make sure the microphone is close, so

21 that they can pick it up -- the recording

22 individual is doing this remotely -- so that

23 they can hear you clearly.

24 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: With that, 6

1 we'll start with our first questioner, who is

2 James Santora.

3 Representative Jamie Santora.

4 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Thank you,

5 Mr. Chairman.

6 Secretary Cortés, thank you for being

7 here. One of the areas that I was looking at

8 was professional licensing. I see that, for

9 example, in the real estate licensure, every two

10 years we renew our license, we do our 14 hours

11 of continuing education, we pay our fee, we get

12 our renewal letters in the mail, we get our new

13 licenses in the mail.

14 Has there been any thought given to

15 making it a four-year process to where the fee

16 doubles, the requirement for education doubles

17 over that four-year period?

18 However, the savings of not having to

19 send out the renewals every two year versus

20 being able to do it every four, I would think

21 there would have to be a significant impact.

22 And even staffing, I think it would be -- you

23 would think it would be a little easier on your

24 staff. I know, for example, the Real Estate

25 Commission gets backed up big time. There's not 7

1 much they can do during that renewal period. If

2 you split it up alphabetically, however you do

3 it, there might be an opportunity for some big

4 savings there.

5 Has any thought gone into that?

6 Has it been reviewed or looked at?

7 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

8 Representative.

9 At the moment, no, not that I'm aware

10 of, but actually, I'm glad we're talking about

11 it because that's precisely what we like to do

12 as a Department, continue to look for ways in

13 which we can improve the delivery of services

14 and the charge. As it relates to professional

15 licensure, the Department has two mandates that

16 are not mutually exclusive.

17 The first is the protection of the

18 public, the health and safety of the public

19 from, unfortunately, those licensees and those

20 who are not even licensed, that, you know, act

21 unethically or not up to the standards. That's

22 one charge, and we aggressively pursue those who

23 do not.

24 The other charge is to be fair to the

25 licensing community and to provide the services 8

1 that are expected in a courteous, professional,

2 and timely manner. So I will be happy to take

3 back to the Department the consideration.

4 Twenty-nine licensing boards, as you know,

5 within the Bureau of Professional and

6 Occupational Affairs; all of 28 of the 29

7 licensing boards have two-year cycles for

8 renewals. The only one that renews on a yearly

9 basis is the Navigation Commission of the

10 Delaware River.

11 So we, at the moment, don't have any

12 boards that do the four-year renewal process

13 along with the continuing education, but

14 something for us to look at. So I thank you for

15 the suggestion.

16 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Great. Thank

17 you.

18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

19 Representative O'Brien.

20 REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN: Thank you,

21 Mr. Chairman.

22 Good afternoon, Mr. Secretary.

23 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good afternoon.

24 REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN: Let's deal with

25 the elephant in the room right away. Now, the 9

1 President has alleged that there has been

2 massive voter fraud in the last election.

3 Was there any fraud, that you know of,

4 in Pennsylvania?

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Representative

6 O'Brien, to the best of my knowledge, and this

7 is not wishful thinking, this is talking with

8 the counties, media reports, the Federal

9 entities that looked at our election, and.

10 The answer is no.

11 Pennsylvania, I'm very proud to say,

12 runs good elections, not perfect elections. We

13 have -- elections are a massive endeavor here in

14 the Commonwealth. We're talking about, you

15 know, 9,000 polling places. You're talking of

16 25,000 voting machines in the last presidential

17 election; over 45,000 poll workers; 6.1 million

18 voters.

19 By the way, I point out that we had,

20 percentage-wise, of registered voters, more

21 voters in this past election, 2016, with 71

22 percent, than we did back in 2008 and 2012,

23 where the turnout was 68 and 66 -- 67 percent --

24 respectively. So no evidence of fraud, but we

25 continue, in the Department, to always ensure 10

1 that we're doing our best.

2 And I think what's most important to

3 point out is that when it comes to elections in

4 Pennsylvania, our elections, although I

5 appreciate the credit given to the Department of

6 State, elections are at the local level by a

7 number of election officials and poll workers

8 that are very professional, very caring. Nobody

9 wants to be in the news as being the person who

10 is in error in their duties.

11 So unfortunately, what happened in this

12 past election is that we had a lot of rhetoric,

13 and it was not just here in Pennsylvania; it was

14 everywhere. But people say, why does it appear

15 that people tend to pick on Pennsylvania?

16 The short answer to that is that after

17 the 2000 election and what happened in Florida,

18 people are looking for the next Florida. And I

19 was here to oversee the presidential election in

20 2004. I did it again in 2008, and the third

21 cycle was this past year.

22 Nineteen elections I've overseen so far,

23 longer than anyone in the history of the

24 Commonwealth as Secretary of State. And I

25 remain confident that we do good elections in 11

1 this State, but we continue to be vigilant to

2 make sure that the elections run appropriately.

3 REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN: So to the best

4 of your knowledge, did the previous

5 administration report any instances of fraud?

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: In voting, not that

7 I'm aware. There are some instances of voter

8 registration, in which someone who might not

9 have been a citizen registered. And most of the

10 time, those issues were related to PennDOT

11 registrations. When you go to PennDOT to get

12 your driver's license, if you happen to be a

13 legal permanent resident, or someone who has a

14 visa with more than one year before it expires,

15 you can obtain a driver's license in the

16 Commonwealth.

17 When you go through the process, there's

18 a series of questions that are asked, are you

19 registered to vote and so forth. Part of the

20 issue is that what we have come to learn, and we

21 took remedial steps about it, is the questions

22 about, do you want to register, are you a

23 citizen, used to be sort of buried in the

24 PennDOT process, like five or six questions down

25 from the questions that are being asked. 12

1 We worked with PennDOT to rearrange the

2 order of the questions, so when you get to the

3 question for potential registration, the first

4 question is, are you a citizen? And at that

5 point in time, if you say no, it stops the

6 process.

7 So again, I'm not sitting here to

8 unequivocally say there is no type of any issues

9 or problems or fraud in Pennsylvania -- it's a

10 massive State -- but certainly, nothing that

11 happened. And in fact, to the best of my

12 knowledge, the last administration stipulated

13 that they found no -- the Corbett Administration

14 -- they found no fraud when the elections were

15 administered, no voter fraud, no investigations,

16 and there were no prosecutions back in 2012 or

17 the period between 2011-2015.

18 REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN: So it's

19 reasonable to say, whether it's a Democrat or a

20 Republican as the gatekeeper of fair and honest

21 elections, Pennsylvania conducts fair and honest

22 elections.

23 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you. 13

1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

2 Representative Greiner.

3 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thank you,

4 Mr. Chairman.

5 Mr. Secretary, I'm going to stay on the

6 voting issue concept, a few questions. Last

7 year while we were here, you had mentioned that

8 other States had shown a 50 cent to 1.50 per

9 paper registration savings by going electronic.

10 And that seems to be a theme here today, you

11 know, going electronic. You felt that could be

12 done here in Pennsylvania.

13 I was wondering, have you, through this

14 process, have you been able to quantify the

15 amount of savings to the counties here?

16 And if so, you know, do you feel your

17 estimates are accurate, and how much are they?

18 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

19 Representative.

20 So when we were in the process of

21 launching online voter registration, a number of

22 the salient points by which we pointed out the

23 benefits of online voter registration included,

24 among others, cost savings. When Pennsylvania

25 joined and launched online voter registration, 14

1 the States that have reported savings have

2 reported savings anywhere between 50 cents

3 through $2.34, California, per ballot. That had

4 to do with the cost of manual data entry, less

5 errors, that would have required some

6 communication back with the counties and so

7 forth.

8 The sure answer is we're in the process

9 and are working with counties to quantify the

10 savings. What I can tell you, though, is that

11 we had close to 900,000 users of online voter

12 registration in Pennsylvania, which by the way,

13 64 percent were new registrations, but the

14 beauty of it is that 64 percent were individuals

15 updating records that, otherwise, they may not

16 have to, which lessened the number of people who

17 could have potentially gone to the incorrect

18 polling place and had out-of-date records; so

19 900,000.

20 The data entry, and the potential of

21 having to send back letters to correct that sort

22 of incomplete information, was reduced. In

23 addition, while the forms -- printing the forms

24 of voter registration, they're about five cents

25 apiece, you know, five cents times 900,000; 15

1 that's the number. So I like to suggest -- and

2 the question is, can we quantify it at the

3 moment?

4 The answer is, it's a work in progress,

5 but I like to say that we, at the very minimum,

6 are going to realize, you know, the minimum

7 benefits of 50 cents as reported, and I think

8 it's going to be much higher than that. Keep in

9 mind that it's not all about the dollars. It's

10 also about the accuracy. It's about the other

11 benefits that the counties enjoyed, especially

12 in a record-year election like it was in 2016.

13 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Just a

14 follow-up, because I do think fraud is a concern

15 when it comes to voting. And not having ID, I

16 think is problematic, and I think a lot of

17 people in this country feel that way. But I was

18 informed that the Department of State was able

19 to find a way to obtain signature capture. You

20 know, as we go in this electronic age, when an

21 individual registers to vote for the first time

22 online, can you discuss how this is

23 accomplished, what the related costs are with

24 that, and what type of funding we need to do so?

25 Because I do -- I'm going to be very up front 16

1 with you. I'm one that has deep concerns, not

2 necessarily in Pennsylvania, I know that we have

3 things at local levels. I know there's

4 impropriety, even. I was made aware of some

5 impropriety, but that's not widespread fraud.

6 But I do think, as we move forward, we have got

7 to make sure this stuff is right and the people

8 that are registering, that they're allowed to

9 be, that they're U.S. citizens and they're

10 allowed to vote. So maybe you can expound on

11 that.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

13 So the one thing that is important to

14 continue to point out is that voter

15 registration, whether it is in the traditional

16 paper form, whether it is online voter

17 registration -- and by the way, the majority of

18 voter registrations in Pennsylvania happen at

19 PennDOT.

20 Whatever way those registrations are

21 taken in, it's an application. That application

22 is forwarded to the counties, even on their

23 online voter registration, and the counties do

24 their due diligence review. Those reviews are

25 stated in Federal and State law, but include 17

1 very fine things, simple, make sure the address

2 exists, make sure that you matched a Social

3 Security or a driver's license with a person

4 that actually exists, you check for duplicates.

5 So all of that work and due diligence is done by

6 the counties.

7 Online voter registration provides a

8 methodology, to make it not only easier and more

9 convenient for the voter to register and update

10 records, as I noted before, but again, it

11 lessens the labor intensive review that counties

12 have to do with illegible handwriting and so

13 forth. So I believe that what you were

14 referring to initially, and we were the first

15 State to implement this for the past election,

16 was a signature upload for those who are using

17 the application online, but don't have a record

18 with PennDOT, or may have a record with PennDOT,

19 but you don't have a match.

20 So what we did is we worked with Kofax.

21 Kofax is the same company that works with most

22 banking institutions in the United States.

23 They're recognized when you do deposit of checks

24 now where you can take a picture. It's not only

25 validating the signature, per se; what it does 18

1 is, actually, the Kofax allows you to upload a

2 signature, which you have to still write on a

3 piece of paper, and what it does for the benefit

4 of actually a signature that is on paper, is

5 that it looks at the quality of the signature --

6 not the validity, because we don't know who the

7 person is --

8 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Right.

9 SECRETARY CORTÉS: -- but the quality,

10 to make sure the pixels, which actually is a

11 tremendous benefit for the counties, because

12 oftentimes when the counties are updating

13 signatures or creating voter rolls, paper-based,

14 depending on how light the pen was or what have

15 you, it's sometimes illegible for the purpose of

16 copying back to a record.

17 So we implemented the Kofax upload of

18 signatures. We had close to 45,000 people who

19 used that feature. If you don't have a

20 signature that you can upload, if you're trying

21 to use OVR, then the other option is to request

22 an actual card, where you can then receive the

23 card, sign your name, and send it back.

24 Unfortunately, only about 25 percent of the

25 people who asked for that actually follow, which 19

1 then left some counties having to have

2 incomplete registrations.

3 So it costs about -- we had about

4 $250,000 to implement a solution through Kofax.

5 It was all paid with HAVA dollars, Help America

6 Vote Act dollars. And again, we have about

7 45,000 people who used it. So if you're doing

8 the math, the cost benefit analysis is like

9 $5.50 per registration, but that is including

10 some upfront costs that we will not see in the

11 future.

12 So I think, all around, it's good. And

13 in terms of the safeguards, again, they're built

14 into the post-application process that the

15 counties follow.

16 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thank you,

17 Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

18 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're very welcome.

19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

20 Representative Daley.

21 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Thank you,

22 Mr. Chairman.

23 Thank you, Secretary, for being here.

24 It's good to see you.

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good to see you. 20

1 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: So it's pretty

2 clear, in the numbers that you just gave, and

3 some of the information that you had provided

4 earlier, that the online voter registration was

5 a real success for the Department of State.

6 I've actually also read a survey recently, the

7 Patinkin Research Group, that talked about how

8 Pennsylvania voters really like their voting

9 system, and they want to see it improved.

10 We all want to see improvements, I

11 think, so that seems like a natural thing. But

12 I think it's really good what you've done with

13 the online voter registration system.

14 So can you tell us if the Department has

15 any future plans to further improve voter

16 registration? Because I know that there are a

17 number of bills out there, automatic voter

18 registration being one of them. I'm really

19 interested in hearing what you have in the

20 works, or what you're looking at as real

21 possibilities for Pennsylvania voters.

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Let me go back a

23 little bit to that question I did with running a

24 good election. I just got back from Washington

25 D.C. I was there with the National Association 21

1 of Secretaries of State. You may recall that I

2 was president of the Association in years past.

3 In fact, for the presidential election of 2008,

4 I was the president.

5 I was encouraged to hear, not just

6 Federal agencies' advocates, good government

7 people, everyone said it was a great election,

8 despite everything that you heard. Pennsylvania

9 takes the lead on a number of things, for

10 example, having that upload of the signature,

11 which we're the first to do. So we're always

12 looking for ways to improve.

13 In terms of the automatic voter

14 registration, we know that Senator Hughes had a

15 bill to do a form of automatic registration. I

16 know that hasn't yet moved much. States do it

17 slightly different. Pennsylvania is actually a

18 little bit there because most of the

19 registrations in Pennsylvania are handled

20 through PennDOT. So when you come in and you're

21 doing your driver's licensing transactions,

22 you're actually given an opportunity to

23 register. So it's not quite what is happening,

24 but other States have similar, like California

25 and Oregon. 22

1 We're open to all suggestions coming

2 from this body. We like to think that we're

3 innovators and we suggest good ideas to the

4 General Assembly, but ultimately, you're the

5 lawmakers, and we're happy to oblige. I think

6 that there are great opportunities for

7 Pennsylvania.

8 The issue of election reform, and again,

9 notwithstanding the fact that I believe very

10 sincerely that we run very good elections, there

11 is always room for improvement, and the voters

12 demand convenience. One of the things that I

13 will submit to the Committee and to all

14 legislators to please consider is no-excuse

15 absentee voting.

16 There's a lot of discussion about

17 implementing in-person early voting, and I know

18 that that doesn't meet with everyone's support,

19 including the counties, because it would require

20 a new way to do things, having to open polling

21 places ahead of time, how do you finance, how do

22 you get the folks?

23 But consistently, going back to 2005 and

24 the Election Reform Task Force, something we

25 have all agreed on, and when I say we, all of 23

1 the county commissioners, the county election

2 directors, and everyone, is that relaxing the

3 rules for excused absentee voting, so that you

4 can vote without a reason, without an excuse.

5 While that doesn't provide for the physical

6 early voting, it's one manifestation that could

7 get us there. It's not just about convenience,

8 but it's about looking for different ways.

9 I can tell you that the counties right

10 now, based on the Senate resolution that was

11 created through the Joint State Government

12 Commission, the Advisory Committee on Election

13 Technology, there's a report that I hope we'll

14 see before the end of the year that talks about

15 a number of different things, including voting

16 systems. Some are about reforms, and I know

17 that counties, for example, would like to have

18 the flexibility to perhaps do more vote by mail,

19 maybe be able to do vote centers because we

20 recognize that one size doesn't fit all, for

21 example, if you consider Philadelphia and Forest

22 County.

23 So we participate actively in that Joint

24 Commission Advisory Committee and look forward

25 to all the ways. So all of that to say that 24

1 we're open to suggestions. We think we can

2 always improve, and we're looking for ways and

3 your support to do so.

4 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: I really

5 appreciate that response. In your saying that

6 the county election boards are all on board with

7 this, that basically says to me that this is

8 something that's a bipartisan -- has bipartisan

9 approval, because the counties across the State

10 are of both parties.

11 Would that be accurate to say also?

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, I wouldn't say,

13 unequivocally, 100 percent, but in the totality,

14 especially when you talk about in-person early

15 voting and what can be done to at least try to

16 meet that desire some way, you know, I don't

17 want to say halfway, that's when you get into

18 the conversation of the no-excuse absentee

19 voting as a way to at least relax the rules.

20 But the voting, the Election Reform Task

21 Force in 2005 supported it by majority. The

22 County Commissioners Association has an Advisory

23 Election Reform Committee, and they endorse it,

24 as well. So it has broad support.

25 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: And just one -- 25

1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We have a red

2 light, so we're going to move on here.

3 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: All right. Thank

4 you very much.

5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: If you wish a

6 second round, we'd be glad to, Representative

7 Daley.

8 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Thank you.

9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

10 Representative Miccarelli.

11 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: Thank you,

12 Mr. Chairman. And thank you for being here,

13 Mr. Secretary.

14 Are you familiar with the FieldWorks

15 voter registration fraud investigations that are

16 going on?

17 SECRETARY CORTÉS: I am, yes.

18 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: One of

19 those, the Norwood raid, actually occurred in my

20 district, that was conducted by the State

21 Police. And I just had some questions in

22 regards to some of the Department's conduct in

23 that regard.

24 On or about the election deadline, there

25 were two packages sent to my county courthouse 26

1 to the Board of Elections; one was about 10

2 pounds, and the other was about 1 pound. The

3 latter was sent on October 14th to our county

4 election board.

5 The reason I bring this up is the

6 deadline was October 11th. Somehow this group

7 that is being investigated currently by the, or

8 possibly still being investigated by the State

9 Police, for some reason, bypassed the Delaware

10 County Courthouse, which is about 10 minutes

11 from where their office was, and took

12 everything, about 7,000 registrations, to

13 Harrisburg, just to have them sent back to the

14 courthouse. And I was wondering if that struck

15 any chords or made anybody concerned within the

16 Department?

17 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you. And by

18 the way, thank you for your support with the

19 Navigation Commission on the --

20 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: It's the

21 least I can do.

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Well, we greatly

23 appreciate it. Thank you for your leadership.

24 So FieldWorks is an organization that

25 does voter registrations, and in the particular 27

1 instance here, and I'm not going to comment on

2 the State Police investigation, that's beyond my

3 purview, but the main concern was, as you noted,

4 Representative, they collected hundreds of

5 registrations, took them to the Department, as

6 opposed to, you know, driving them to the county

7 board of elections right there in the county.

8 So to provide a little bit of context,

9 and I'll make it very quick, historically, the

10 Department -- and I've been there since 2003,

11 but going back to the 90s -- has had a practice

12 which is not in law, but is against the law.

13 And the counties have never had a concern with

14 it until now, that if anyone had voter

15 registration forms that they had collected, they

16 could either take them to the county, which is

17 what should be done, and is done most of the

18 time, or you could bring them to the Department,

19 we will collect them all, and then we will do a

20 public service and forward those registrations

21 to the counties and go through the process and

22 the expenditure of doing so.

23 Again, with the idea that in instances

24 as this case was an issue because you're right

25 there, but others may have been collecting 28

1 statewide. Not an issue; we simply collect

2 them. And what we have done is we actually will

3 date stamp those forms or at least have a -- if

4 we take a full packet -- we will attach some

5 form of a statement that says these forms were

6 received at the Department of State prior to

7 deadline and therefore are valid; we're

8 forwarding them to you. Never an issue.

9 With the case of FieldWorks -- and I

10 know the county took great issue with it -- I

11 can tell you that the bottom line is that, while

12 we are acting in good faith at the Department

13 and we want to be helpful to voters and others,

14 the reality is that accepting the forms at the

15 Department of State, as is the case here as

16 demonstrated by FieldWorks, is perhaps more

17 problematic than good. Ultimately, those forms

18 should go to the county.

19 So a policy determination, a decision

20 has been made by me, with support from the

21 Governor's Office, to stop the practice. I

22 don't think that -- again, it was nothing

23 illegal, nothing improper. It's a practice of

24 20-plus years. But what we're going to do is,

25 very clearly, we're going to put on our website 29

1 and all of our vocation materials, if you do

2 voter registration forms, whether you're

3 registering individually or you're doing a

4 registration drive, once you complete those

5 forms, take them to the county.

6 Take them directly to the county. Don't

7 take them to us because you're delaying the

8 process. And again, the proper recipient of

9 those forms are the counties, so we have made

10 that policy decision that will be implemented

11 with this election.

12 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: Well, I

13 think that's a good move, Secretary. Thank you

14 for that.

15 Part of the thing that jumps out at me

16 about the whole thing was the fact that the

17 county received the forms, you know, long after

18 the registration deadline. There was one person

19 registered nine times at five different

20 locations. And I guess part of the problem that

21 the county had was, you know, it was so close to

22 Election Day, trying to weave their way through

23 7,000 forms in that short period of time was

24 very difficult and, you know, there were a lot

25 of problems within the county election board. 30

1 So I'm glad to hear of the policy change.

2 Thank you.

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're welcome.

4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

5 Representative Krueger-Braneky.

6 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Thank

7 you, Mr. Secretary, for joining us here today.

8 I've got a few election questions, as well.

9 First of all, special elections. I was

10 elected in a special election in Delaware County

11 18 months ago. Since then, there have been two

12 more special elections. And of those three,

13 only one was held during a regularly scheduled

14 primary or general election.

15 So can you tell us first, what is the

16 cost of conducting a special election that's not

17 during a primary or a general?

18 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

19 Representative. Excellent question because this

20 is an Appropriations budget hearing, and we're

21 talking about ways in which we can save the

22 hard-earned taxpayer dollars.

23 So the very precise question: how much

24 does it cost to run a special election outside

25 of the regularly scheduled primary or general? 31

1 In the low end, if you're looking -- I'm looking

2 at numbers here from 2015 and 2014 and on -- on

3 the low end, about $35,000; average, about

4 $150,000.

5 The elections that were conducted more

6 recently in Philadelphia back in March of 2016,

7 there were two for the 192nd and the 200th House

8 District, they were $178,000 each, so that was

9 just about $355,000.

10 There were the three elections in August

11 of last year, 174th, 195th, 195th, that cost a

12 total of $520,000, almost more than half a

13 million dollars. And the average cost, again,

14 runs at least $100,000.

15 So if there is a way, again, and this is

16 the prerogative of the Speaker of the House and

17 the Lieutenant Governor as President of the

18 Senate, if we are looking to save dollars, one

19 way to do so is not to schedule special

20 elections outside of the regularly scheduled

21 elections.

22 When that happens -- what happened last

23 year, if you recall, when I was here, I was

24 asked, hey, how do you deal with all of these

25 special elections; how does your budget absorb 32

1 it? Well, it's an executive authorization, so

2 if we run over, we can ask for extra money, but

3 then I -- I didn't make the mistake; I was just

4 honest -- I said some counties don't ask for

5 reimbursement. I was reminded that I was on TV

6 and I had just said it loud and clear, so

7 Philadelphia and other counties came back and

8 said, I want my money for those special

9 elections, and they started collecting.

10 So just in the last, this last fiscal

11 year that ended, we paid almost over $900,000 on

12 special elections. And this year, so far, we're

13 at close to $400,000.

14 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: And who

15 bears that cost?

16 So you're saying that counties can

17 request reimbursements, so ultimately State

18 taxpayers are on the line?

19 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, the Department

20 of State has to pay the counties for special

21 elections, so that is everything from the poll

22 workers, to programming the machines, to if you

23 have optical scan ballot boxes, and everything

24 that goes along with running an election, which

25 is an expensive endeavor. 33

1 So yes, the Department of State has to

2 pay, obviously, our money, at least our general

3 operation dollars.

4 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: So just

5 to be clear, those numbers again, last year

6 almost a million dollars for special elections;

7 and this year to date, over $400,000.

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: About $400,000,

9 $381,000 so far.

10 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Thank

11 you so much.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

14 Representative Delozier.

15 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Thank you,

16 Mr. Chairman.

17 Secretary Cortés, good to see you.

18 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good to see you.

19 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: I had two

20 questions that go in line with just some of the

21 line items and some of the increases to ask

22 where those dollars are headed. The first one

23 would be the voter registration education

24 appropriation. That line item, in particular,

25 went up $100,000, but we've been talking about 34

1 the reduction and the need for printing

2 registrations, and a lot of those costs going

3 down. So I'm just trying to assimilate why the

4 item itself is going up $100,000 in request, but

5 yet, the costs that we've talked about, that

6 kind of are associated with that line item, are

7 going down.

8 So if you could just give me a little

9 bit of background on that.

10 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So very good

11 question. By the way, I touted how successful

12 online voter registration was because it was,

13 you know, 900,000 voter applications that

14 otherwise would have been paper. But in a year

15 like last year, we also still had 900,000 paper

16 applications. Si we still have the forms. We

17 still have to print them. When we give them to

18 agencies, State agencies, sister agencies, that

19 have to provide them under the National Voter

20 Registration Act, we have to code those forms.

21 So the additional costs that you see on

22 that line items related to voter registration

23 location is not only the voter registration mail

24 application, but it also includes a PennDOT

25 reimbursement. Every time PennDOT handles a 35

1 registration, we pay PennDOT 7 cents per

2 application. PennDOT alone, last year,

3 processed almost 1,700,000 applications, so we

4 paid 7 cents on that.

5 Then the other is just the voter

6 education programs, but the bulk of it is paying

7 PennDOT, reimbursing them for each form.

8 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Did that go up

9 last year, or is that --

10 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, it all went up

11 because, again, we had record numbers of

12 registrations or updates. So we had the 900,000

13 OVR. We had another close to 900,000 also on

14 paper, and we had 1. -- we had about $1.3

15 million to PennDOT.

16 These are all transactions. They don't

17 mean all registrations, but they're just

18 transactions. So we have to print forms. We

19 have to reimburse PennDOT for transactions

20 handled at DMV, at the Department of

21 Transportation.

22 We also, part of what we do, is we have

23 to pay for translation of forms. And in

24 Pennsylvania, for the most part, the forms are

25 just in English and Spanish, but we work to make 36

1 sure that the forms that are now provided

2 through PennDOT, again, because you may have

3 individuals that are citizens, new citizens, but

4 with limited English proficiency, the forms for

5 PennDOT are translated into 10 languages.

6 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: That was my

7 next question, how many languages?

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Ten.

9 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: And then, the

10 other question, in dollars and cents, in looking

11 at BPOA, there were four in particular, and I

12 guess I'm just trying to figure out why those

13 particular licensure boards, BPOA, in and of

14 itself, 6 percent increase; the Board of

15 Medicine, a 6 percent increase; osteopathic

16 medicine, 16 percent increase; podiatry, 11

17 percent. It just kind of seemed weird, as to

18 those particular ones.

19 Can you give me a little bit of

20 background as to why -- BPOA in and of itself --

21 just those particular three medical boards?

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure. So as you

23 know, 29 licensing boards, 26 are grouped within

24 the pocket of funding that is what I will call

25 the big umbrella, BPOA; and then the medical 37

1 board, osteopathic medical, and the podiatry are

2 three separate boards, just by the creation of

3 the statute.

4 The costs that you see in growth within

5 BPOA, generally speaking, are a couple of

6 things. You have what we call -- and we have

7 breakdowns for each of those -- but what you're

8 seeing in terms of increases is what we're

9 calling the cost to maintain operations. The

10 cost to maintain operations, many times, is

11 hardware, replacements of laptops, desktops,

12 technology.

13 We're also, as you know, in terms of

14 cost savings, investing and transitioning all of

15 the users. When we talk about BPOA, you know,

16 which is the largest bureau, if you count also

17 enforcement investigation and legal, which is

18 part of the same group, we are transitioning

19 everyone from traditional individual licenses

20 with Microsoft Office to Office 365, the Cloud,

21 so that we don't have the files, physical files.

22 So there is savings, but there are initial

23 investments with that.

24 We're also upgrading our

25 telecommunications technologies, just to make it 38

1 easier. Part of also what we're doing with BPOA

2 is improving the -- we're rolling three

3 different solutions, License 2000, which we use

4 internally, as well as the My License, which is

5 used by the licensing community, and License

6 Pennsylvania, which is what the public uses.

7 All of that is being rolled into our new

8 Pennsylvania licensing system.

9 So BPOA, you see growth there, perhaps,

10 more than you see anywhere else also because the

11 licensing community keeps growing. And in the

12 moneys that you have there, you have also

13 allocation for additional staff.

14 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: So everything

15 here with medicine and osteopathic, it's all, in

16 and of itself, going toward the operation of the

17 actual board. It's not going to additional

18 reimbursements. It's not going to anything

19 dealing with the board members and the operation

20 outside of the --

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: No. No, the

22 operation --

23 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: So it's

24 overhead?

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, overhead. So 39

1 the operations are lien, but what we also have

2 is expert witness, expert witness increases,

3 again, because the board now is looking at a

4 million licensees, and we went up over 2200 just

5 in complaints. So we have growth in the

6 licensing community, which in turn, is growing

7 the number of complaints, especially after we

8 joined JNET, so we get more records.

9 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Thank you.

10 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're welcome.

11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

12 Representative Gainey.

13 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Thank you,

14 Secretary, for being here today, you and your

15 staff.

16 First, I know this was the first year we

17 did online registration. I just wanted to see,

18 how did we fair against other States that also

19 have online registration?

20 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So Pennsylvania is

21 the sixth most populous state in the nation

22 after, you know, California and Texas, Florida,

23 New York and Illinois. Our numbers were graded

24 pretty much in terms of what we saw in activity,

25 as I just cited, with use of OVR, traditional 40

1 paper, and PennDOT transactions higher than most

2 States.

3 That date -- we're still looking at

4 reports that will be coming soon from the

5 National Council of State Legislators, as well

6 as the Pew Center and the U.S. Election

7 Assistance Commission that kind of paired every

8 State together. So there's not a lot of

9 empirical data.

10 I know what I have. I'm not sure what

11 other States have, but I think I can tell you,

12 in terms of the attention, we were under a

13 microscope. You know, one thing that folks

14 forget is that our county election personnel are

15 working every single day to get us ready for the

16 election, from voter registration, to education,

17 to training and what-have-you, and this was an

18 unusual year in which we were under more than

19 any other State that I mentioned of those top

20 five. Neither California, Texas, Florida,

21 certainly not Illinois, were under so much

22 attention as we were in Pennsylvania, getting

23 sued by everybody, a lot of what I will call

24 rightful -- you have the right to do so, but

25 distraction. 41

1 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Right.

2 SECRETARY CORTÉS: It took a lot of time

3 and energy from the work at hand, which we were

4 busy as it was. And notwithstanding all of

5 those realities, we're delivering an election

6 that was secure, that was reliable, that was

7 smooth. So I think we did very well.

8 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: First, I want to

9 compliment you on that. Congratulations. You

10 did a phenomenal job. But secondly, as more

11 States are moving to early voting, do you think

12 that is something that Pennsylvania really needs

13 to look at in terms of improving voter turnout?

14 Should we be looking more to how we

15 implement early voting?

16 SECRETARY CORTÉS: As far as the

17 question, let's just go to the question of does

18 early voting improve voter turnout? The data is

19 mixed.

20 What really has shown to increase voter

21 participation is Election Day registration or

22 same-day registration. That's something that

23 does -- has been proven, and the States have

24 done so. That does increase the numbers.

25 In-person early voting, not necessarily. 42

1 But I think that we ought to consider,

2 and I think that's what we are going to see from

3 the Joint State Government Commission, the

4 Advisory Committee, from the work that is being

5 done through the County Commissioners

6 Association, the Election Reform Committee, I

7 think that's what you're going to see. You're

8 going to see a number of reforms, and I for one

9 look forward to reviewing all of those with an

10 open mind and then deciding what makes sense for

11 Pennsylvania. Because what makes sense for

12 another State may not be the same here, but I

13 think all of those things ought to be

14 considered.

15 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: This is just a

16 statement. I think -- I want to congratulate

17 you again -- but I also think that because of

18 the intense scrutiny that you were under and

19 because of the fact that we had no problems, and

20 we had two -- as a matter of fact, we can go

21 back to Governor Corbett and Governor Wolf,

22 we've had no problems.

23 I think Pennsylvania, all of our

24 counties, we need to stand up and celebrate the

25 fact that we've had no fraud, we've had no 43

1 issues. And I think we need to let

2 Pennsylvanians know that our voting, our voting

3 is good. We don't have to worry about fraud,

4 and we need to celebrate the truth. And the

5 truth is that we're doing well when it comes to

6 voting.

7 I believe we have to eliminate fear with

8 faith; and faith is standing on truth and saying

9 that we've had no problems so that we can put to

10 rest, voter identification, the suppression of

11 the vote, and find out how we really improve

12 voter turnout.

13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

14 Representative Boback.

15 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Thank you,

16 Mr. Chairman.

17 Recently-enacted legislation requires

18 the Department of State, through the State

19 Boards of Medicine and Pharmacy, to create

20 opioid dispensing guidelines. Also, other

21 legislation required licensed prescribers and

22 dispensers to obtain education in pain

23 management, identification of addiction and the

24 use of opioids.

25 Can you give us an update of what's 44

1 going on now with the Department of State to

2 address that legislation?

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: The Department of

4 State has been working very closely with the

5 Department of Health, which is the agency

6 charged with the overall implementation of the

7 medical marijuana law, to see, you know, the

8 collaboration that we have.

9 Are we talking about opioids, as well,

10 forgive me?

11 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Opioids, yes.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes. The opioids;

13 forgive me on that.

14 So in terms of the opioid crisis, what I

15 believe has been very fruitful exercises, this

16 is a collaboration of a number of agencies. So

17 yes, you have the Physician General, and you

18 have the Department of Health taking the lead

19 with the help of the Department of Drug and

20 Alcohol programs, certainly the Department of

21 Human Services and others.

22 The Department of State, because we

23 license the professional community that

24 dispenses the opioids that oftentimes, sadly,

25 become the beginning of an addiction, we have 45

1 been working closely with all of the

2 departments, particularly Health, for continuing

3 education requirements, particularly, for the

4 prescribers, you know, the doctors and the

5 M.D.s, the D.O.s.

6 So overall speaking, we have -- it's a

7 conversation where, for the most part, what we

8 do is we take our cue from the agencies that are

9 dealing right on the front lines. So we work

10 closely with the Physician General, who is, as

11 you know, very passionate about the issue. So

12 we work very closely with her to make sure that

13 we close some of the barriers. One of the

14 things that we've done is we've supported

15 prescription guidelines that were accepted and

16 adopted by all of the Nursing Board, the Medical

17 Board, the Board of Pharmacy.

18 So it's an ongoing collaboration that, I

19 think, ultimately will yield the positive

20 results that we're all hoping for.

21 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Thank you.

22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

23 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're welcome.

24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

25 Representative Donatucci. 46

1 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you.

2 Thank you for being here today.

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Of course.

4 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: One of the

5 little-known areas that the Department oversees

6 is the State Athletic Commission, which has

7 events taking place throughout Pennsylvania

8 almost every weekend.

9 Can you comment on the important role of

10 the State Athletic Commission; and how is the

11 Commission doing?

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: I'm so happy to get

13 questions about the State Athletic Commission

14 because it's truly a gem. The Commission goes

15 back to 1923, in its original creation. And in

16 Pennsylvania, the State Athletic Commission,

17 housed within the Department of State, oversees

18 both professional and amateur boxing,

19 kickboxing, mixed martial arts, and also

20 professional wrestling.

21 I'm happy about the State Athletic

22 Commission because it is probably the only thing

23 that makes me popular with fifth graders. But a

24 couple of things that I like to point out,

25 especially this past year, the State Athletic 47

1 Commission had a record year, last year, in a

2 number of ways.

3 We have close to 2600 licensees. We

4 license the athletes, as well as the agents. We

5 saw a 20 percent increase in those registrations

6 from 2015. Oftentimes, I get asked the

7 question, how can you support, you know, sports

8 where people beat each other?

9 Well, all that means, what I always

10 said, is it's important to regulate sports that

11 are going to happen whether you do so or not.

12 The last thing we want to do is see all of these

13 sports go underground. So the fact that we can

14 regulate provides a measure of oversight that is

15 important.

16 But Pennsylvania, last year, was fourth

17 in the nation when it came to boxing events.

18 The other States that do more boxing events,

19 more than Pennsylvania, it's no surprise because

20 they're much larger: California, Texas, Florida.

21 We're one of the top 10 States when it comes to

22 mixed martial arts. We had a record year, last

23 year, when it came to the funds that we

24 generated, $676,000.

25 Even though it's not a big entity, every 48

1 once in a while, we give money back to the

2 General Fund from the moneys that we collect.

3 And last year -- I'll end with this in the

4 interest of time -- the State Athletic

5 Commission here in Pennsylvania received a

6 rating of excellent from the Fight Fax. Fight

7 Fax is the organization that rates the sports

8 commissions throughout the country, and we were

9 rated as excellent in the operation of the State

10 Athletic Commission.

11 So lots of good work, especially with

12 young people. That happens.

13 Last year, by the way -- I'll end with

14 this -- we hosted the Golden Gloves Finals in

15 Pennsylvania. And we also hosted a program of

16 youth Cuban boxers against boxers, a

17 program that was hosted on the Roberto Clemente

18 Bridge and received wide support. So, yeah,

19 it's a gem that I wish I could highlight more,

20 but we do really good work with the State

21 Athletic Commission. So it's something to be

22 proud of, and no problems, no controversy.

23 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you.

24 Moving in another direction, every so

25 often, the General Assembly feels the need to 49

1 create a new board to oversee the licensure of

2 certain professions and activities in the State.

3 Can you illustrate the process of

4 creating a new board and provide information on

5 the associated start-up costs?

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes. Thank you.

7 So the process for when you start a new

8 board, we get boards that come from interest

9 groups. Most of the time, they are from the

10 licensee population or the professional

11 population that wants to be licensed. And

12 people say, why do you want to be licensed; why

13 do you want to be under the oversight of

14 government?

15 Sometimes it's to legitimize the

16 profession, as the case might be. So once -- so

17 there is a process to submit an application to

18 the Department, and we call that a sunrise

19 evaluation. So we go through a process of

20 looking, the feasibility of creating a new

21 board, understanding that to create a board,

22 there's a significant amount of expenditures,

23 not just with the regulations, initially, but

24 also the staffing between the administrators,

25 the lawyers and others. 50

1 So we look at a number of considerations

2 to decide whether, in fact, it is feasible to

3 have a new board. In recent years, there was a

4 policy decision made not to create any new

5 boards under any circumstance, no matter how

6 useful and financially viable they may have

7 been. That has since been rescinded. That's

8 not the position, but it's still a very

9 elaborate due diligence process.

10 So that's why you don't see us with more

11 than the 29 that we have now, but we continue to

12 do, on a regular basis, for those applications.

13 And if we see something that has merit, it's

14 certainly something to bring to the attention of

15 the legislature, because oftentimes they require

16 statute for creation.

17 Thank you.

18 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you.

19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

20 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

22 Representative Helm.

23 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thank you,

24 Mr. Chairman.

25 Secretary Cortes, within your budget 51

1 materials, I noticed that there are seven new

2 positions proposed for 2017-'18 under the Bureau

3 of Professional and Occupational Affairs.

4 Specifically the Bureau cites a clerk typist for

5 the Bureau of Enforcement and Investigations;

6 two additional funeral inspectors; an attorney

7 and legal assistant for the Office of Chief

8 Counsel, prosecution division; a hearing

9 examiner; and an administrative assistant for

10 the Professional Compliance Office.

11 Can you demonstrate the need for these

12 positions and what areas within the Bureau these

13 new workers will assist?

14 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you. Thank

15 you, Representative.

16 So in terms of growth within the

17 Department, that's the only area where we

18 actually have additional staff, you know, the

19 operations that encompass the support of

20 professional license. The reason for that is a

21 couple of things.

22 The licensing community, if I go back to

23 just two years ago when I came to the

24 Department, the licensing community, in terms of

25 licensees in the State, was standing at about 52

1 900,000, we are now at 982,000. So the

2 licensing community is growing rapidly, all

3 throughout the 29 licensing boards.

4 With that, the growth in the complaints

5 has also increased exponentially. Legally, we

6 saw an increase of over 2200 complaints, just in

7 the last year, which is a significant increase

8 just from a couple of years back. Part of that

9 had to do with the access to JNET, the Justice

10 Network.

11 Now, when someone is arrested or

12 convicted, at the moment -- we have it with

13 three boards, nursing, medical and

14 osteopathic -- we automatically get reports

15 which creates the opening of a file. We didn't

16 have that before. So there is exponential

17 growth in the positions. And these are only

18 intended to help with the work.

19 Let me also point out that in terms of

20 the hearing examiner, a little-known fact, but

21 the hearing examiners are assigned to the

22 Department of State, but we're one, actually.

23 When that hearing examiner shows up, they

24 actually hear cases for 21 State agencies.

25 So pretty much every agency under the 53

1 State, when they have hearings, those hearings

2 are heard by the complement within the

3 Department of State. And again, the growth, we

4 take on more clients, more agencies, and that's

5 growing the number of cases. And what we want

6 to do is make sure that we can investigate, that

7 we can follow on the cases and do so, and

8 maintain the numbers at a significant, good

9 level.

10 In terms of the two positions within the

11 Bureau of Enforcement and Investigations, the

12 funeral directors, what we are doing there, as

13 you know, there have been some cases, some quite

14 appalling in the news, about the fact that you

15 have corpses showing up in garages or something

16 because we had a backlog in inspecting funeral

17 homes, just because, humanly, there are only so

18 many people and so many days to look at

19 everything.

20 So we have taken a very proactive stance

21 to make sure that we stay on and inspect

22 facilities. We inspect, not only the funeral

23 homes, but real estate offices. We do so with

24 car dealerships. We do so with many others. So

25 the idea is that the growth is -- and we can 54

1 afford it -- within the restricted accounts

2 without any additional fee increases that are

3 expected to address the growth in the work that

4 we do within the Bureau of Professional and

5 Occupational Affairs.

6 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thanks for the

7 explanation.

8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

9 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

11 Representative Dean.

12 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Thank you,

13 Mr. Chairman.

14 Good afternoon, Secretary Cortés.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good to see you.

16 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Good to see you

17 all. You said that we had maybe banner voter

18 turnout participation in this last presidential

19 election. I think, did you say 71 percent?

20 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Seventy-one percent.

21 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Of registered?

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes; 6.1 million

23 voters, over 6.1 million voters, out of the 8.5

24 million registered voters.

25 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: And this is maybe 55

1 more curiosity than it's budgetary, but how

2 many, what's the percentage of eligible

3 Pennsylvanians who are registered to vote?

4 And by contrast, how many are not

5 registered?

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So at the moment, we

7 have about 8.5 million registered voters. It is

8 anticipated -- based on some numbers that we

9 have, we believe that the number of actual

10 eligible voters is more like 10,750,000. So we

11 have, potentially, about 2.5 million eligible

12 voters that are not yet registered.

13 So we have about 2.25 million people

14 that are not currently registered, that

15 potentially qualify for registration. And

16 again, we have 8.5 million currently registered.

17 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: And are you

18 finding that the eligible population, because of

19 the online voter registration, that maybe that

20 percentage is beginning to come down?

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah. In fact, if we

22 look at January 2016, compared to January of

23 this year, in January 2016 -- and the

24 population, by the way, Pennsylvania, as you

25 know, has been fairly stagnant since the 50s, so 56

1 we are not growing very much.

2 We are at 2.8 million, from 2.5 million

3 just, you know, seven years ago. So last year,

4 we had about 8.1 million people registered in

5 January; this year, it is 8.5. So we saw a

6 growth of close to 400,000. I think those

7 numbers are going to be affected.

8 The other thing that we're doing is, not

9 only through OVR, but also joining ERIC, the

10 Electronic Registration Information Center,

11 we're actually now able to identify if there are

12 individuals on the voter rolls that are no

13 longer living in Pennsylvania, were deceased in

14 other States. So we're cleaning the voter

15 rolls.

16 So we're adding more people, which is

17 good, but at the same time, equally good is that

18 we are making sure that our records are more

19 accurate and so that, I don't call it purging,

20 but so those individuals that are passed or no

21 longer in the State can be removed.

22 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: I will tell you

23 that my constituents have been very happy with

24 the online and are asking, begging, for other

25 innovations that will make voting easier, 57

1 absentee voting easier and clearer. So you

2 know, I applaud the Department for that.

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

4 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: In terms of,

5 again, absentee ballots, again, that's something

6 that my constituents are clamoring for. They

7 don't want to be caught in a position of not

8 being able to predict, particularly elderly

9 people, whether they're going to be well enough

10 to get to the polling place. We put a burden

11 that we just absolutely shouldn't put on people.

12 And if I'm correct, we're one of only

13 now, a dozen or so States that doesn't allow for

14 no-excuse; is that correct?

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, 13.

16 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Thirteen?

17 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, so we're in the

18 clear minority there.

19 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: I hope we'll move

20 in the direction of that.

21 And then, to give you a chance to

22 educate me a little bit, tell me what your

23 Department does for small businesses and

24 start-ups, in particular for veteran start-ups

25 and small businesses. 58

1 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

2 So the Department of State, we have to

3 be careful that we don't -- I used to tout that

4 we're the foundation for economic development in

5 the State because it sounds too much like my

6 dear colleagues across the street at Community

7 and Economic Development, but if you're going to

8 have a legitimate business in Pennsylvania, it

9 starts with the Department of State, because

10 that's where you do the registrations. And

11 we're a driver for economic development because

12 we handle the secure transactions under the

13 Uniform Commercial Code.

14 I remember coming into office in 2003,

15 when our processing times for UCC documents was

16 27 calendar days -- 27 business days; calendar

17 was much more; 36 for other business documents.

18 And anyone who had a phone and my number was

19 calling me and screaming at the top of their

20 lungs that that was an impediment to them being

21 able to do business in this State. We're down

22 to one day today in Pennsylvania.

23 So our role is to be a friendly,

24 easy-to-use point of entry for businesses in the

25 State. However, we recognize, too, it's easy 59

1 for me, as someone who works in the Department,

2 to understand what we do, but if you're a

3 business owner, particularly a small business

4 owner, who can't or won't hire an attorney to do

5 all of that for them, for most people, you want

6 to do business, you have an idea.

7 I just want a single point of contact, a

8 single point of entry. So the Department is

9 working very closely with the agencies that work

10 on economic development, community economic

11 development, the Department of Revenue for tax,

12 the Department of Labor and Industry, if you

13 have the numbers for the unemployment and

14 workers' compensation insurance. So we are, you

15 know, we're part of that conversation to try to

16 truly create a one-stop shop.

17 I will mention this very briefly because

18 I'm very pleased to say, as you know, that there

19 was Act 1 -- and I have it right here -- Act 135

20 was the Act that the legislature passed last

21 year. It was implemented in the 60-day

22 requirement, and this is the new law that

23 provides for veterans and reservice to be able

24 to file their businesses' incorporation and

25 other documents free of charge. 60

1 And I'm very pleased to say that law was

2 implemented. We rolled out the forms on January

3 2nd. And as of today, we've had already 34

4 military and other veteran reservice who have

5 taken advantage of the -- I don't want to call

6 it free -- no charge for the corporation

7 documents.

8 So we'd like to say that we're -- we'd

9 like to think that we contribute positively to

10 the economic growth and in helping our business

11 entrepreneurs in the State.

12 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Terrific. Thank

13 you, Mr. Secretary.

14 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you.

17 At this time, Representative Knowles.

18 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you,

19 Mr. Chairman.

20 Welcome, Mr. Secretary. It's always a

21 pleasure to see you.

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Likewise.

23 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: I cannot sit

24 here and allow some of the remarks that have

25 been made by some of my colleagues go 61

1 unanswered.

2 In October of last year, J. Christian

3 Adams, the President of Public Interests Legal

4 Foundation testified before the State Government

5 Committee that Philadelphia had foreign

6 nationals that self-reported to the City that

7 they were registered and should be taken off the

8 voting rolls. Also, the voting records showed

9 that some had voted in past elections.

10 Any of you who may have any doubt about

11 that, the Chairman, Chairman Metcalfe, has a

12 copy of the names and the addresses and the

13 report if you'd like to see it.

14 So my question would -- first, I would

15 like you to respond to that, Mr. Secretary. Is

16 there anything that you can add that you are

17 doing to ensure that neither legal or illegal

18 aliens are voting in Pennsylvania's elections?

19 SECRETARY CORTÉS: We're talking about

20 non-citizens; if they're legal --

21 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Legal or

22 illegal legals.

23 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, I don't want to

24 split hairs, but if you're legal and you are a

25 citizen, but you're talking about -- so let me 62

1 just say the following. First and foremost, we

2 don't claim that elections are perfect. I have

3 said that from the get-go because you're talking

4 about an enormous endeavor.

5 If you talk in terms of general terms,

6 are you talking about systemic fraud,

7 individuals that are not supposed to register

8 registering?

9 Again, I just point you to the records

10 of -- and I don't want to get controversial with

11 the Pennsylvania Voter ID --

12 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Mr. Secretary,

13 I'm talking about --

14 SECRETARY CORTÉS: I'm giving you the

15 answer, Representative. What I'm telling you is

16 that if you want me here to unequivocally say

17 there is not a single person that is not

18 entitled to vote because they're not 18, a U.S.

19 citizen, or resident -- but you're speaking

20 specifically to citizenship -- that has ever

21 registered and voted; I cannot do that.

22 There are, in fact, some cases, I think

23 someone may have -- and not here, in other

24 States -- but if you're asking me if there is

25 systemic, ongoing, pervasive, massive, it 63

1 happens every day, I would like you to show me

2 the records in terms of convictions. That's

3 what I would like you to basically show me.

4 Anyone can say anything so I will go to the

5 record because I know the Chairman is probably

6 going to speak next.

7 But I will tell you that if what you're

8 trying to get me to say is that there is no

9 fraud in Pennsylvania, I cannot say that; just

10 the same way I cannot say there is any other

11 crime that shouldn't take place. But if you're

12 asking me, am I aware and I think that it is

13 systemic and pervasive and what-have-you, I

14 don't have that evidence. So I certainly

15 welcome --

16 And what am I doing to do it better?

17 Like I said, a couple of things. We knew from

18 the facts that part of those individuals, for

19 example, that went to PennDOT, that got

20 registered, did not vote, got registered, was

21 perhaps because when they were reading the

22 screens, getting a license, in haste, they

23 either didn't understand the language, or in

24 haste, answered on the register. And some of

25 those individuals would have called and said, 64

1 oh, by the way, I received a notice for a

2 registration, and I never intended to.

3 Some people just don't know enough, but

4 if you're asking me, is it pervasive? I don't

5 see it. So we are going to continue to work

6 diligently with all of our partners. That's why

7 we joined ERIC, to make sure that we have

8 records that are more accurate in all of their

9 manifestation insurance terms of individuals

10 that are no longer in Pennsylvania. We want to

11 make sure that we avoid duplicate records.

12 So your concern is the same as mine.

13 Let me tell you, I'm not a masochist. I'm the

14 State's chief election official. Do you think

15 you want me, as part of my legacy, or whatever

16 you want to call it, that I'm allowing

17 individuals that are not eligible to vote to do

18 so? Absolutely not. That makes absolutely no

19 sense.

20 I think when those matters take place,

21 then we need to address them appropriately. If

22 that leads to a conviction, I do hope that is

23 the case.

24 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: I would never

25 say that you weren't doing your job or doing the 65

1 right thing, Mr. Secretary, but some of my

2 colleagues would like you to believe that all is

3 well in the Land of Oz. Well, the bottom line

4 is that we have problems, and the problems, we

5 need to continue to address those problems.

6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

7 And thank you, Mr. Secretary.

8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

9 Representative Briggs.

10 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you,

11 Mr. Chairman.

12 Mr. Secretary, over here; how are you?

13 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good.

14 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you for

15 your testimony. I wasn't going to address this,

16 but I want to thank you and your staff for the

17 wonderful job that you do. Every time I have a

18 question, and every time I have a concern, you

19 guys are always very responsive. Eight and a

20 half million registered voters in Pennsylvania

21 is an amazing number, and I want to thank you

22 and applaud you for the great elections that

23 you've run and managed in Pennsylvania.

24 The question I have, over the last three

25 terms, or it might have been four, I've 66

1 introduced a bill regarding requiring campaign

2 finance reports to be filed online. I'm taking

3 a different tack this time. For some reason, I

4 haven't been able to get it addressed by the

5 State Government Committee, but Representative

6 Keller and I are working together, and I'm

7 hoping that with his leadership, we'll be able

8 to get it considered.

9 Could you just tell us the number of

10 campaign committees there are and the percent

11 that file online, if you have that number?

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Well, let me, if I

13 can, perhaps, answer the question.

14 First, a statement. Thank you. Thank

15 you. The Department of State welcomes and is

16 working hard to make sure that we provide

17 anything we do, particularly any contract with

18 the agency, whether it is professional

19 licensure, applications or renewals and campaign

20 finance, lobbying disclosure and everything

21 online. There's significant tremendous benefit

22 to that. That's the direction we're moving in,

23 the bureau corporations and charitable

24 organizations, and it makes a lot of sense.

25 It's convenient. It's more accurate. It saves 67

1 time. You don't have all of the data entry,

2 which is expensive.

3 This is what I can tell you in terms of

4 statistics. For the period of July 2016 to

5 January 2017, so we're talking only six months,

6 the first half of this fiscal year, we have

7 already have had 5300 campaign finance reports

8 filed. Of those, and I will just give you a

9 general number, 61 percent are still being filed

10 paper-based.

11 So 61 percent of all of the campaign

12 finance records that we get, and we get over

13 10,000 every year, are being filed on paper,

14 with only 39 percent electronically. I welcome

15 -- we welcome the -- what will that mean?

16 We spend thousands of dollars using a

17 third party to do data entry or to -- you know,

18 when we get a document, we are very quick to

19 scan and put up on the website, but it's not a

20 searchable document. So we work with a third

21 party vendor to do that. That's thousands of

22 dollars.

23 We want transparency. Everybody wants

24 transparency. You want to have quick access to

25 those records. So if we were able to require 68

1 everyone that files campaign finance records to

2 do so electronically, that will have significant

3 benefits, not only for us, but in terms of

4 transparency, in terms of access, in terms of

5 just that spirit of people being able to see,

6 you know, what dollars are being raised and from

7 where. So I hope those numbers satisfy the

8 question.

9 Thousands of campaigns and candidates

10 and others have to report, and not yet 40

11 percent are doing so electronically.

12 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: It satisfies it

13 as an answer. It's disappointing that so few

14 take advantage of the great database that you

15 guys have created. When I first started working

16 on this, it was Secretary Aichele, I guess your

17 successor or predecessor, I'm not sure which

18 way, but we recognize her. We spent a lot of

19 time trying to come up with a bill that would

20 address -- she was more concerned just about the

21 overwhelming amount of overtime that it took to

22 data input everyone's hard paper file because

23 there was a requirement that it's searchable and

24 that it's accessible to all of our constituents.

25 So it was something that we worked on together. 69

1 And hopefully Representative Keller and I will

2 be able to celebrate its passage in due course.

3 A second question I had was, so much of

4 what you're doing is online these days with

5 voter registration and more and more campaign

6 reports. In Montgomery County, we had an issue

7 in the October -- in the November election in

8 October, regarding the absentee ballots and the

9 number of delays in processing and mailing. The

10 Court ended up having to intervene to give us a

11 little bit of a delay.

12 I read in the paper, I think, there were

13 still 300 absentee ballots that were voted or

14 mailed and delivered after Election Day. The

15 county commissioners are taking a review and are

16 going to come up with some recommendation that

17 they think they could do better, and hopefully

18 recommendations that they can pass along to me.

19 But is that something that we could push the

20 envelope with online and with your capabilities

21 and technology to allow that -- I mean,

22 no-excuse, same day, all of that is great, but

23 it seems to me, what was happening, was they

24 were getting overwhelmed, and they were having

25 to key punch in the data. 70

1 Is there a way that a citizen could

2 request the ballot even on an online form?

3 I just want to ask you, are there

4 capabilities there that they could do that?

5 I look forward to working with your

6 staff to try to come up with some simple reforms

7 so that Montgomery County's citizens don't face

8 the same challenges in the future.

9 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So we're looking

10 forward to being innovative, and we would like

11 to do so. We have some limitations, the money,

12 costs, you know, to be able to just expand on

13 what we have with the SURE System, which is

14 aging, but the major issue here is you'll see

15 this from the conversations with the Advisory

16 Committee on Election Technology, but beyond

17 that, it is an issue that our Election Code goes

18 back to 1937, and as it relates to absentee

19 ballots, it provides that you can request an

20 absentee ballot the Tuesday before the election,

21 a week before, but by the way, that ballot has

22 to be back by that Friday.

23 That's not the reality of the postal

24 service nowadays; they simply don't get there.

25 So part of what we did, with the Department 71

1 working with the counties, is a lot of voter

2 education, information and press releases that

3 said, if you wait until the last minute, it's

4 not going to get there; either request one early

5 or go in-person if you are pushing the envelope.

6 In the case of Montgomery, they really

7 got backed up, partially because they were

8 waiting for the question on the judicial race

9 and the age of retirement, trying to get it

10 right. And in the end, they were able to go to

11 the Court of Common Pleas, as you know, and get

12 an extension until Election Day as opposed to

13 the Friday before, but that was certainly not

14 sufficient.

15 So this is an area of major concern for

16 us, absentee ballots. So we appreciate the

17 interest and look forward to working with you

18 and others on it.

19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you,

20 Mr. Secretary.

21 Representative Roae.

22 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Chairman Saylor,

23 just -- so you're, the financial aspects of the

24 capabilities is what's -- is one of the

25 limitations to what you're facing? 72

1 SECRETARY CORTÉS: A couple of things.

2 We would need legislation that would allow us to

3 do so. So we would have to amend the Election

4 Code to permit the use of an electronic delivery

5 form for absentee ballots. And then we would

6 have to work on our SURE System and build it in

7 such a way that can do so.

8 So legislation, money, a little bit of

9 time to put it together, but certainly we have

10 to drive.

11 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you,

12 Secretary.

13 Thank you, Chairman, for that extension.

14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

15 Representative Roae.

16 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Thank you,

17 Mr. Chairman.

18 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

19 A little bit ago, somebody mentioned the

20 concern with special elections, how expensive

21 they are. I'm just kind of curious about other

22 election-related things that people do not seem

23 to be concerned with how expensive they are,

24 things like same-day registration, early voting,

25 no-excuse absentee ballot voting. 73

1 It seems like, if you have six million

2 people showing up on Election Day, that all

3 registered ahead of time, and they all vote on

4 the machines, it's almost like a big assembly

5 line. It's pretty efficient.

6 But if you're standing in line to vote,

7 and the person in front of you, they're trying

8 to register on the same day, and they're filling

9 out a form, or if some people decide to vote

10 early and the county has to set up polling

11 sites, not on the regular Election Day, but

12 staff them on days other than normal Election

13 Day, if thousands or even millions of people do

14 no-excuse absentee ballot voting, now you're

15 dealing with all of these paper ballots.

16 It just seems like -- let me ask the

17 question this way. When people show up on

18 Election Day and vote on a machine, isn't it a

19 lot cheaper, the cost, than people who, you

20 know, do absentee voting or anything like that?

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, part of the --

22 well, part of the reason -- well, I guess,

23 because we don't have it, because we don't have

24 some of the forms that you speak of in

25 Pennsylvania, you know, it's hard for me to 74

1 grasp the -- but your point is well taken.

2 I think if you're saying -- that's part

3 of the conversation with the counties. When the

4 counties are looking for, and they're the ones

5 that have said, for example, we will be

6 supportive of absentee, no-excuse absentee

7 voting as opposed to in-person or early voting

8 because we would have to staff a polling place.

9 We'll have to open ahead of time. The

10 considerations there are money-wise, and you are

11 right, additional costs. Some are just

12 logistics, finding the poll workers; that's one

13 of the challenges we have in Pennsylvania, just

14 finding enough poll workers.

15 By the way, there are other reforms that

16 you might hear from this Advisory Committee that

17 they're talking about. Do we even need to

18 continue to elect the Judge of Elections,

19 minority, majority inspector; can they be

20 appointed? It's easier, perhaps, to find the

21 individual.

22 So I will just say very briefly,

23 Mr. Representative, that your point is well

24 taken. So I think there are costs and

25 gives-and-takes. I will only point out that the 75

1 States that, for example, do like all mail, like

2 Oregon, like California, like Washington State,

3 not only have high voter turnout, they have

4 great voter satisfaction. They have some

5 savings that, perhaps, we don't see realized

6 now.

7 The dual systems, I see it both ways.

8 So your point is well taken.

9 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Thank you.

10 Because it just seems like, if some polling site

11 has 1,000 people walk in, they vote

12 electronically, that just seems more efficient

13 than if they have 1,000 envelopes of paper

14 ballots that they have to manually count. It

15 just seems like the cost would be a lot more.

16 Now, my other question, totally

17 unrelated; somebody had asked earlier about all

18 of these boards and commissions, and I just

19 wanted to get a clarification. I think you said

20 there are 29 different boards and commissions?

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Correct. Twenty-nine

22 licensing boards that all receive 255 job

23 classifications.

24 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Now, every single

25 job classification, do they all pay for 76

1 themselves with different license fees and

2 inspection fees and things like that, or are

3 there anywhere subsidies with regular tax money

4 to pay for any of that stuff?

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: No. Part of the

6 creation of any board is the -- I talked about

7 that sunrise assessment -- is to see the

8 viability. So no, all of our professional

9 licensure boards, by statute, have to be

10 self-funded.

11 What you often run into is that when it

12 comes to the initial implementation of a new

13 board, this is a consideration for a new board,

14 is that once you create a board and before you

15 are able to charge the first registration fee or

16 licensing fee, you go through a process of about

17 two years to put the regs together.

18 So there is an augmentation account

19 that, while every board, their money is well

20 parceled and well accounted for, there is an

21 augmentation account from which you can borrow,

22 and then you have to pay it back. But the

23 bottom line is that all of the boards are

24 self-funded.

25 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: All right. Thank 77

1 you, sir.

2 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

4 Representative Bullock.

5 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you,

6 Mr. Chairman.

7 Thank you, Secretary, for testifying

8 before us today.

9 As we know, your Department also

10 regulates charities. And I believe I asked you

11 about charities last year. We know also that

12 our middle class and working families tend to be

13 the largest contributors to those charities. We

14 want to make sure that those contributions are

15 protected and that they can be secure that the

16 charities that they're contributing to are

17 registered and are following the rules of the

18 Commonwealth.

19 Can you share with me, I guess, were

20 there any increases in the number of charities

21 that registered in the last year; any increases

22 in the number of cases of fraud; and how does

23 your Department handle those cases?

24 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So there was some

25 growth, but you know, not as significant in 78

1 other areas like voter registration, for

2 example. But in Pennsylvania, we have a little

3 over 11,000 registered charities, but we also

4 have, in addition to that, 427 registered

5 professional solicitors and professional

6 fundraisers, and professional counsel,

7 professional fundraising counsel. As you know,

8 the professional solicitors are the ones that

9 will pick up the phone and call you, or send you

10 a mailer, whereas the professional fundraising

11 counsel counsels the organization.

12 So we have about 11,500 altogether in

13 the State. Pennsylvanians are generous, so we

14 want to make sure that we protect the public

15 trust. A few of the things that we're doing, we

16 have, over the last few years since I've been in

17 office, we have dedicated a significant amount

18 of time and energy to voter -- I'm sorry to

19 informed giving education.

20 So for that, we do -- we have done two

21 very successful Twitter town halls. We do them

22 around the time of the holidays. We have also

23 issued an incredible amount of press releases.

24 We're making good use of social media. So an

25 emphasis is on informed giving. 79

1 We don't want to scare people into not

2 giving. Pennsylvania is so generous, and the

3 charities need the funding. We just want to

4 make sure you do so in an informed fashion. So

5 that's where we are in terms of numbers to

6 charities and what we do.

7 We have taken a very, what I will call a

8 very aggressive stance, on disciplinary actions

9 and review, and I want to give you some

10 specifics related to charities. Over the last

11 year, in terms of charities, we had an increase

12 in the number of consent agreements that we had

13 last year. We had over 22 consent agreements.

14 We have over 52,000 in penalties that we issued.

15 We had a growing number of cease and desist

16 orders. The growth is quite -- it's

17 significant.

18 One of the things that we have done is

19 assign, now, a full-time prosecutor just to

20 specifically handle the prosecutions, and we're

21 working to -- the way that the charities are and

22 how we end up -- the issue, oftentimes, is

23 you're soliciting without letting us know you're

24 doing so in the State. Whether you're a

25 charity, whether you're a professional 80

1 fundraiser or counselor, anyone that is involved

2 in the business, before you do so, you have to

3 come to the Department of State and let us know

4 what you're doing, and we have to give you the

5 okay. Some people do it without approval ahead

6 of time.

7 So the bottom line is that we're taking

8 a very proactive stance with education, very

9 proactive stance with prosecution, very

10 aggressive, and I anticipate that those numbers

11 will continue to increase, and final actions are

12 increasing, as well.

13 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you.

14 I have a follow-up question on a

15 separate matter. One, I'd like to thank you for

16 your previous responses to my colleague's

17 questions about voter registration fraud and

18 that it, in fact, is not systemic, but maybe

19 some isolated incidents.

20 My question is in regards to your

21 personnel, and I believe last year you shared

22 with me that you had quite diverse personnel.

23 If you could, just share your numbers for the

24 last year, and if there are any significant

25 changes. 81

1 SECRETARY CORTÉS: The numbers in the

2 Department have remained fairly steady in terms

3 of our diversity within the ranks of the

4 Department, diversity in terms of race, but also

5 gender. We are pretty much, in every standard,

6 ever field, we're about the Commonwealth

7 numbers.

8 For example, the number of minority

9 females in the Commonwealth is 8.3 percent; the

10 Department is 10.7. The numbers, pretty much in

11 every category, our numbers are higher. For

12 example, minority males, 8.2 percent in the

13 Commonwealth; 11.1 percent.

14 What I'm most proud of is that the

15 diversity, which is across the board, and

16 doesn't take anything away from anyone, it

17 reflects heavily in the management staff. I'm

18 Hispanic. The Executive Deputy Secretary, she's

19 Hispanic. One of our two deputies is a family.

20 The Director of the Office of Policies is an

21 African-American female. The Deputy Director of

22 Policies is also African-American. The Director

23 of the Office of Communications and Press is a

24 female Hispanic. So all across the board, down

25 to our receptionist. So we're providing 82

1 opportunity somewhere. We're very proud of

2 that.

3 Still, the majority of our staff happen

4 to be white Caucasian, but that's just the

5 general trend of the Commonwealth and the

6 population. But we take the issue of diversity,

7 and always talented individuals, to fill those

8 vacancies very seriously. So we work diligently

9 to accomplish diversity in all of these

10 manifestations.

11 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you,

12 Secretary. I applaud you for your attempts, and

13 your personnel does reflect the Commonwealth's

14 diversity and talent.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

16 Representative Bullock.

17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

18 Representative Keller.

19 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Thank you,

20 Mr. Chairman.

21 Good to see you, Secretary.

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good to see you, sir.

23 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Just a couple

24 of questions related around efficiencies,

25 programs that you might be working on within the 83

1 Department to create more efficiencies, save

2 money, streamline some of the operations.

3 Do you have a couple of items that

4 you're working on?

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, so a couple of

6 things, and I want to go back to GO-TIME. I

7 think it's good are for -- well, let me speak

8 generally.

9 So as I mentioned earlier, most of our

10 efficiencies are in working diligently to move

11 many of our services online for convenience. So

12 we're doing that in professional licensure;

13 we're doing it all across the board.

14 So our efficiencies are mostly available

15 in taking advantage of technology. And that is,

16 in the professional licensure, the upgrade from

17 License 2000 to the Pennsylvania Licensing

18 System; and that is already being well received.

19 We are, again, improving in many of -- one of

20 the things that we're working on, in terms of

21 professional licensure, we implemented online

22 list sales. We sell lists of licensees. That's

23 remitted by law. We've done that online.

24 Online voter registration.

25 And then, as you know, we're part of the 84

1 overall Commonwealth review of how we maximize

2 our resources in HR and IT. So we are part of

3 all of those efforts. Everything that we do is

4 with an eye on being very respectful and careful

5 with the public dollars.

6 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Are all of

7 your projects that you're working on on the

8 GO-TIME website?

9 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, the ones that

10 we have -- you will see in there, for example,

11 we have a county SURE registration portal. So

12 yes, we have them listed.

13 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: How often is

14 that updated?

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Quarterly, is my

16 understanding.

17 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: It's updated

18 quarterly. If I were just to go to like the

19 Governor's GO-TIME, and then go to the list of

20 statewide priorities, there's probably about 150

21 things on that list.

22 Your items would be on that list.

23 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes.

24 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: One hundred

25 fifty-four, I see on the list, as I pull it up 85

1 on my smart phone here.

2 So that's where I would find that?

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes, sir.

4 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Okay.

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: And by the way, I

6 want to be as thorough in my response to you

7 today so that we don't have to rely on me

8 sending you more information after the hearing,

9 but always happy to provide any particular

10 details. Again, most of what we're doing is to

11 look into capitalizing technology. For example,

12 I'll tell you, one, cost savings is a driver.

13 When I was in the Office before, we used

14 to have budgets of up to $2 million just to do

15 voter education and to get information out about

16 elections. In the last year, everything that we

17 did, we did in-house with social media. So

18 we're investing heavily in, you know, I

19 mentioned Twitter town halls to internal

20 homemade graphics. Pretty much, most of what we

21 do is with internal resources, all of that is

22 driving towards making better use of technology

23 and not having to rely on taxpayer dollars to do

24 what we do.

25 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Are the 86

1 internal resources listed on the GO-TIME

2 website?

3 Because I will be honest with you, I've

4 gone out here and I've looked at it, and I see

5 about -- you have lines 139 through 143, most of

6 them listed completed, and have the fiscal year

7 of '15-'16 in them. So I'm looking for

8 something that we'd be looking to do in '17-'18.

9 So I guess what I would ask, because I

10 don't want to take up all of the time with

11 this --

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

13 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: -- but I

14 would ask that maybe we could get together.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes.

16 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: And make sure

17 that I'm looking at the proper area because this

18 should be something that is easily searchable --

19 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Agreed.

20 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: -- by the

21 citizens of the Commonwealth.

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

23 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Again, I've

24 gone to the GO-TIME website, and I see the

25 initiatives. I do commend you for having some 87

1 things on the list, not all departments do.

2 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

3 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: I'm

4 interested in that, not because people aren't

5 doing a good job, but as you know, in business,

6 if you're not going forward, you're moving

7 backwards.

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Absolutely.

9 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Or if you're

10 standing still, you're moving backwards. So

11 that is one of the things that I want to make

12 sure that we're driving at all of our

13 departments, not that we're not doing the work

14 we should be doing, but what more can we deliver

15 for the citizens of our Commonwealth.

16 So I appreciate the time. I guess I did

17 have one other question. You had mentioned some

18 other States with early voting, and you had

19 mentioned California, Washington, Oregon.

20 Do you have the voter turnout in those

21 States? Because the Pennsylvania one, I

22 believe, was around 71 percent.

23 Do you know what it was in those other

24 States?

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So the State with the 88

1 highest voter turnout in the last election, and

2 leading with early voting and in-person voting

3 registration, was Minnesota. They had about 80

4 percent, or just above 80 percent.

5 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Okay.

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: And by the way, I

7 think maybe I misspoke. When I mentioned

8 California and Oregon and Washington State, I

9 was referring to vote by mail. Those

10 jurisdictions also have good numbers.

11 Our voter turnout, by the way, is not

12 bad.

13 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Do you know

14 where we rank?

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, in fact, I was

16 looking at a list. Out of the 55 jurisdictions

17 in the country, we rate within the first 15 or

18 so, 15 or 20 for this election. Again, our

19 numbers were higher at 71 percent than they had

20 been in the last two presidential elections.

21 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: So the last

22 election, we were within the top 15. Again, not

23 that we don't want to improve and so forth, it's

24 just good to understand where we are now.

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure. 89

1 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: Thank you.

2 SECRETARY CORTÉS: My goal would be 100

3 percent voter participation.

4 REPRESENTATIVE F. KELLER: That would be

5 a good goal for everybody. Thank you.

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you, sir.

7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.

8 Before I move on to the next questioner,

9 I want to recognize that we are joined by the

10 esteemed Senator from Venango County, Senator

11 Scott Hutchinson.

12 Next is Representative Boyle.

13 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you,

14 Secretary Cortés, for being here. I know it's

15 the end of a very long day, so I'll try to be as

16 concise as possible. I felt as though I had the

17 duty to pose this question to you after hearing

18 the comments from one of my esteemed colleagues

19 on the other side of the aisle, in specific

20 relation to voter fraud.

21 Whenever I hear the discussion of voter

22 fraud in the State of Pennsylvania, I think that

23 it's certainly code for the City of

24 Philadelphia. And as a Representative of the

25 City of Philadelphia, I wanted to ask you if you 90

1 are aware, in the City of Philadelphia, we have

2 a three-member body, which oversees our

3 elections. There are three city commissioners,

4 one of whom, but per the city charter, is a

5 Republican. There are two Democrats, one

6 Republican. There's no guarantee that it will

7 always be two Democrats, one Republican, but

8 just due to the nature of political voting and

9 patterns in the City of Philadelphia for the

10 last 60 years, the one commissioner has always

11 been from the Republican Party.

12 That Republican commissioner,

13 Al Schmidt, released a study about two years ago

14 that went into great detail and great length to

15 look and attempt to find fraud in the City of

16 Philadelphia. What he found was basically no

17 fraud. He found a few instances here and there

18 of fraud. Oh, by the way, one of the instances

19 was fraud conducted by the Republican Party in

20 the City of Philadelphia.

21 I wanted to see if you were familiar

22 with that study.

23 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

24 Representative Boyle.

25 I am familiar with the study. I have a 91

1 very good working relationship, and much respect

2 for, Commissioner Al Schmidt, who, as you noted

3 is the Republican commissioner, the vice chair

4 of the commissioners in the City of Philadelphia

5 that oversee elections.

6 Again, I'm not going to sit here and

7 say, it doesn't happen. I just don't want

8 anyone ever coming out of here saying, you said

9 never, never it doesn't happen. No. I'm just

10 speaking, based on studies on what has been

11 done.

12 Al Schmidt, when he ran for office, and

13 when he put his first study together, basically

14 came out and suggested there's rampant fraud in

15 the City of Philadelphia, and I'm going to get

16 to the heart of it, and he went on to his study.

17 His study suggested some issues that he found

18 problematic. It was very encouraging; and I had

19 nothing to do with it.

20 But when a lot of the attacks came his

21 way to Philadelphia about the last election, he,

22 a Republican, Al Schmidt, Ph.D. and everything,

23 said, hey, I didn't have a change of heart, I

24 just happen to have now the benefit of being

25 here and have access to more information and see 92

1 what is being done, and I, by the way, am

2 literally the lead person overseeing elections.

3 The fraud is not -- we run good elections, and

4 we have good work.

5 One specific example that he pointed out

6 is that there was a report from NBC 10 that

7 suggested there was an investigative report that

8 said there were about 150 people who had been

9 identified as being deceased and voting. And in

10 the middle of the election, he contacted the

11 reporter and said, we cannot go door to door and

12 check all of the records going back years upon

13 years about everyone that you said, but give me

14 25. You choose the 25 cases and let me look at

15 them.

16 They look at the 25 cases; and in all

17 cases, some were still alive; or it would have

18 been the case where it was a son or a daughter

19 with the same surname as the parent; others

20 would have been where you sign, you know, the

21 parent may have been deceased, and for some

22 reason, the record had not been updated,

23 somebody didn't update the record. They were

24 still in the records, but the son or the

25 daughter signed the line for the father. So a 93

1 lot of those things were explained.

2 Elections are not perfect. You have

3 humans. And I'm an attorney, so I look at these

4 issues all the time. I see we have laws that

5 say you don't kill, you don't do this, you don't

6 do that, you don't do that, and people still do

7 it. So I cannot say that it doesn't happen.

8 I'm saying, and I want to assert that we need to

9 be vigilant and do a lot of work, but the

10 evidence doesn't support the massive, rampant --

11 but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

12 It does mean that we have to be alert and

13 vigilant and do something about it.

14 That's why I said in my comments before

15 if that evidence comes to light, I think people

16 ought to be prosecuted and the law take its

17 course.

18 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you.

19 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're welcome.

20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

21 Representative Quinn.

22 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you,

23 Mr. Chairman.

24 Thank you, Secretary, for being here.

25 I'm going to try and make this a speed round. 94

1 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

2 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Listening to the

3 conversations here, I have a question regarding

4 early voting. Either the posters were way off

5 or people changed their mind this election.

6 What is the mechanism in place in other

7 States if someone changes a vote and they've

8 already cast a vote through early voting?

9 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So in early voting,

10 even if the person is physically voting either

11 at the ballot or in the mail, or if they are in

12 person, those ballots are not counted until

13 election night. It's the same as for example,

14 someone who sends an absentee ballot and then

15 show up in person, so they compare and the

16 latest vote is the one that counts.

17 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you. I'm

18 going to go back now to the fiscal conversation

19 here.

20 Representative Delozier was asking

21 questions regarding the different State boards

22 and stuff and their increases. I'm curious

23 about the decrease, almost 10 percent, it's a

24 9.3 percent decrease to the Bureau of

25 Corporations and Charitable Organizations. 95

1 Now, I see through your testimony that

2 there have been some efficiencies and some

3 database, you know, technology, and I'm not sure

4 if that's what accounts for the decrease because

5 you did just say that you've actually hired a

6 full-time prosecutor. It seems, you know, to

7 bring on a full-time prosecutor and yet have an

8 almost 10 percent decrease, I'm just curious how

9 that's going there.

10 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So the decrease that

11 you saw of the 900 -- the numbers are getting

12 small here, but the decrease, nevertheless, I

13 have the answer -- the answer is because the

14 bulk of the money, compared to what we have used

15 in years past, was being used for the building

16 of the new solution, the new upgraded corporate

17 filing online application.

18 So we have used the money beginning in

19 years '13-'14, '14-'15; we built the bulk of the

20 solution. So we are at the tail end now.

21 Pretty much, the solution is built. So we no

22 longer have the need for the extra money that we

23 had in the past. So the reduction is simply

24 that we have moneys in to build the online

25 application CoSort, and that project now has 96

1 been completed.

2 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: So the BEI, with

3 regard to the charities again, they had 83 cases

4 referred for administrative prosecution,

5 however, you only had 22 consent agreements.

6 The others were just -- that's a large number to

7 get that far and then say, have a good day.

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yeah, so the

9 explanation for that is either, in some

10 instances, again, these are complaints that,

11 once properly investigated, may not lead to

12 prosecution. You could have an agreement. You

13 could have someone that maybe was impaired and

14 entered into a volunteer process through our

15 Pennsylvania Professional Health Money Program.

16 So not every case that we open leads to

17 a disciplinary action because A.) the evidence

18 doesn't support it; B.) there are some remedial

19 steps that have been taken. So that's that

20 explained.

21 Actually, the convictions are going up,

22 but percentage-wise, especially with JNET, we

23 get all of the cases. And in the end, they may

24 not amount to something that is actionable.

25 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you. That 97

1 $52,000 that came in or that you had, where does

2 that go, to the General Fund, or back into your

3 Department?

4 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Which one are we

5 talking about?

6 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: The $52,000 that

7 came in in penalties.

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes. So anything

9 that is penalties within -- we're talking about

10 professional licensure or charities?

11 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Charities.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So the good thing

13 with charities, unlike the Bureau, it's all

14 within the Bureau of Corporations and Charitable

15 Organizations, but when it comes to charities,

16 everything that is collected by way of General

17 Fund goes back, 100 percent.

18 For example, we finance the Corporation

19 Bureau with a split of the fees. If you have a

20 Uniform Commercial Code filing, 95 percent goes

21 to the General Fund, 5 percent stays with the

22 Department. In the case of charities, every

23 dollar that is collected through penalties goes

24 back to the General Fund.

25 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you. 98

1 That $52,000, what would that number

2 have been for last year? You said that we've

3 gotten really aggressive in the State with

4 regard to disciplinary actions. We've got 22

5 consent agreements.

6 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So those would be

7 individuals that either were registered or were,

8 say, doing solicitations and were not

9 registered.

10 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: I understand who

11 they are -- I don't mean to interrupt you.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: No, that's okay. I'm

13 trying to understand your question.

14 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: What was the

15 dollar amount that we had in penalties last

16 year?

17 SECRETARY CORTÉS: You're asking for a

18 comparison of both years?

19 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: I am.

20 In the essence of time, I'm happy to

21 have you get back to me on that. Okay. I was

22 just curious what the efforts of enforcement and

23 the disciplinary, what's that bringing over,

24 over the prior year.

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Correct. 99

1 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Because $52,000

2 is great; it's not stupendous.

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Well, to your

4 point -- and I will give you more details -- the

5 full-time person that we're talking about is

6 something we're doing now. It's not part of

7 last fiscal year. In fact, we have been

8 prosecuting with prosecutors for full-time work

9 for professional and occupational affairs and

10 set time aside to do the charities, because

11 charities, unlike professional licensure, are

12 general government operations, it's not

13 restricted accounts.

14 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thanks.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

16 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: I've got a red

17 light, and I just appreciate the work with your

18 Department on that bill that I have on this.

19 Thanks.

20 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Absolutely. Always a

21 pleasure.

22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

23 Representative Readshaw.

24 REPRESENTATIVE READSHAW: Thank you,

25 Mr. Chairman. 100

1 Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here

2 today. I appreciate not only the questions and

3 your responses to the members of the

4 Appropriations Committee, but from a different

5 perspective, in my capacity as a Chairman of the

6 Professional Licensure Committee, albeit the

7 minority chairman at the moment, I just want to

8 say thank you for your past, current, and I'm

9 sure future considerations, from not only you

10 but your entire staff as, in case people aren't

11 aware in the room, we interact frequently on

12 different pieces of legislation. And without

13 your cooperation and professionalism, it would

14 make the Committee's chores much more difficult,

15 so I just thought it was necessary for me to

16 publicly thank you.

17 SECRETARY CORTÉS: We appreciate that.

18 Thank you.

19 REPRESENTATIVE READSHAW: Thank you, Mr.

20 Chairman.

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: It is a team effort.

22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

23 Representative Grove.

24 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Thank you,

25 Mr. Chairman. 101

1 Mr. Secretary, good to see you. Thank

2 you.

3 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Good to see you, as

4 well.

5 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: First question,

6 Act 146 waivers; you submitted one in August for

7 basically the new office in New Pennsylvania.

8 Did that waiver go through?

9 I know last year's budget, you had a

10 line item, office in New Pennsylvania; that

11 wasn't funded. And then you applied for a

12 waiver under Act 146 of unspent dollars.

13 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Short answer, no; we

14 didn't get the -- we applied for the waiver to

15 get the dollars. The message coming from the

16 House and the Senate was there was no interest

17 in having the Office of New Pennsylvania funded,

18 at least not at the time. So we didn't pursue

19 it further, and the moneys were not allocated to

20 the Department.

21 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Kind of with

22 voting, moving forward. If I decided to move,

23 under my new address, I registered, I went in to

24 vote, but sent in an absentee for my old

25 address, what's the process for picking that up? 102

1 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So you're saying --

2 so let me try to understand the scenario. You

3 register in one place, you have moved to a

4 different one, you request an absentee ballot

5 from one place, and --

6 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Different county

7 in the State.

8 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So this is the

9 process. So you're only going to be registered

10 in one place. Your old registration -- so let's

11 say from the old, you requested an absentee

12 ballot. That Election Day came; you didn't

13 physically show up there, so at the end, your

14 ballot gets counted.

15 You get to your new county, you show up

16 in person. And you're not going to appear in

17 the poll books, so you're going to be marked

18 provisional. And in the provisional review, the

19 counties do the canvassing afterwards, their

20 comparison of records of voters, in other

21 counties, as well.

22 So very likely, not 100 percent -- we're

23 talking about humans -- but most likely, your

24 provisional ballot will not be counted. They

25 will identify you as having voted in the other 103

1 county. Now, on top of that, if anyone finds

2 word of that and you did it purposefully because

3 you requested an absentee ballot and you've

4 completed it, and you mail it in, and then you

5 -- there's no mistake here -- you still showed

6 up and presented yourself as voting as if you

7 had not voted before you signed the ledger or

8 completed an absentee provisional ballot, you

9 would have committed election fraud, and I do

10 hope -- and that's not because of you.

11 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: No. I'm not

12 saying me. I'm just saying --

13 SECRETARY CORTÉS: This other person.

14 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: How do you pick

15 that up? Yes.

16 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So we basically

17 would, hopefully, catch you and it will be

18 something that we will prosecute. And that's

19 sort of the strong message, the balance of the

20 conversation we've been having, we hope it does

21 happen that you're caught. Part of the question

22 about fraud hinges on the incentive to do so.

23 Why would you want to do so?

24 What do you gain from doing so?

25 I am wanted by the police. There's a 104

1 warrant for my arrest. The last place I want to

2 be is at a police station identifying myself,

3 unless I'm a daredevil. It makes no sense.

4 What is the incentive?

5 And that's why we make sure, even on our

6 registration and everywhere elsewhere, even

7 online, we very clearly note you're saying this

8 is a truthful statement, and if you don't,

9 you're liable; you potentially could face jail

10 time and fines and the like.

11 So I always go back to that; what is the

12 incentive?

13 If you're not doing it by mistake, why

14 would you want to put yourself in that position?

15 Say, for example, the undocumented

16 individuals. You live underground. You don't

17 want to be identified, not just for you, but for

18 your family.

19 What incentive is there?

20 I don't see how you could get paid that

21 much.

22 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: A constituent

23 asked me this. I'll use -- since I'm getting

24 arrested, I'll throw my son under the bus on

25 this example. He's seven, but say he decides to 105

1 go to Rutgers in New Jersey; registers to vote

2 at my house at Dover, goes to Rutgers; registers

3 to vote in New Jersey; absentee ballot to

4 Pennsylvania; votes in person in New Jersey.

5 What do we have to protect, to ensure

6 there's not a double vote in that scenario?

7 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes, since we don't

8 have in the country a centralized voter

9 registration database for the entire

10 Commonwealth -- it's difficult enough just to

11 put together the one that we have in this State,

12 but we did it successfully and timely. That's

13 why the Commonwealth joined the ERIC, the

14 Electronic Records Information Center, which is

15 a database that compares States in-house.

16 It's very robust databases, not just

17 Social Security, but the Department of Health

18 and the jurisdictions. So we're finding ways to

19 continue to have ways to compare records.

20 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: So we do have

21 like an interstate contract with other States?

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Correct.

23 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Are all 50 States

24 a member of that?

25 SECRETARY CORTÉS: No. At the moment, 106

1 we have 20 States and the District of Columbia.

2 That number is growing, though. When we joined

3 it just last year, we were number 15. So the

4 number is growing, and we see and uptick on

5 that.

6 So, yeah, not something that we will

7 continue to look into, the addresses, but the

8 short answer is, it's not yet the perfect

9 system, but we're looking for ways.

10 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Good enough.

11 Thank you.

12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

13 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR:

15 Representative Bradford.

16 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Thank you,

17 Secretary.

18 Thank you, Chairman Saylor.

19 Having served on this Committee the last

20 eight years, actually, every year I've been in

21 the legislature. I will note that the first

22 year I became a chairman is the first year that

23 the Chairman gets his questions last. I will

24 point that out.

25 Real quick, on the voter fraud and 107

1 election integrity issues that have been covered

2 quite a bit today, there is a perverse feeling I

3 have that we're defending the integrity of an

4 election that, regrettably, the party that I'm a

5 member of did not do particularly well in the

6 electoral college. I can only imagine if

7 President Trump had lost the electoral college,

8 the amount of grievance that would be aired.

9 The case that I would point out, though,

10 is Senator Toomey, and this was actually before

11 the election, when the then-rigged election that

12 was forthcoming, he talked, and I quote, success

13 of the American Republic requires citizens'

14 confidence in the outcome of their elections.

15 Voters should respect the outcome because that's

16 going to be necessary to pull us together on

17 November 9th.

18 For whatever reason, that doesn't seem

19 to have been the road we went down. I should

20 point out that on January 25th, in the means of

21 communication that our new President finds most

22 comfortable, he asked for a major investigation

23 into voter fraud.

24 So my first question would be, has the

25 new Department of Justice, has the Federal 108

1 government commenced, to the best of your

2 knowledge, an investigation into alleged voter

3 fraud and irregularities in the most recent

4 election?

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: At the moment,

6 Mr. Chairman, to the best of my knowledge, there

7 is no -- not a comprehensive review being done

8 by the Department of Justice. Having come from

9 DCS, I noted earlier a meeting with my fellow

10 colleagues. I can tell you that they're split

11 among the issue with a resolution that basically

12 said, we ran a good election; let's move on.

13 Others feel that they have issues they

14 need to address and review. Some of it has to

15 do with fraud in voter registration as opposed

16 to voting, which people speak to. So I know

17 that some of my colleagues certainly would like

18 to encourage the Federal government to do so.

19 It's interesting, I'll just point this

20 out, in a joking fashion during the electoral

21 college, as you know, I'm the temporary

22 presiding officer of the electoral college.

23 I've done three of them. I happened to be

24 talking to some of our friends in the GOP, who

25 had the electoral college. And they said, hey, 109

1 I know why you were so well prepared to deal

2 with some of the lawsuits you did. And I said,

3 why? They said, because had we lost the

4 election, we would have been the ones suing you

5 under the very same grounds.

6 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Yes.

7 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So we heard it from

8 the -- not a single vote had been cast and

9 people were already challenging the integrity of

10 the election, especially with professionals and

11 individuals, that while we are not perfect, we

12 try to -- we work hard every day. So it's

13 disheartening.

14 That's not your point. The point is, is

15 there an investigation? The short answer is no,

16 not nationally, that I'm aware of. But it is

17 disheartening because you work hard, and there's

18 no evidence whatsoever. And the interesting

19 thing is that no sooner than the election takes

20 place and the results are what they are, the

21 same person that before said, if I lose the

22 election, the only way I can lose in

23 Pennsylvania is if it gets stolen from me

24 because there is all this fraud, as soon as the

25 election takes place, that's the person who asks 110

1 to join the lawsuit in my favor, saying, oh, no,

2 everything was perfect and it worked out

3 beautifully.

4 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Secretary, I

5 agree completely with that point. And that's

6 what I think, when those before the election

7 were calling into question the integrity of the

8 election and the outcome, they do a disservice

9 to our democracy. I notice Senator McCain

10 recently said, look, there's no evidence of

11 voter fraud. I think that those who allege that

12 have to come up with some substantiation of

13 their claim.

14 President Trump has gone on to say,

15 we're going to look at it very, very carefully.

16 It has to do with registration. And when you

17 look at the registration, you see dead people

18 that have voted.

19 Now, notice, he doesn't say are

20 registered or are duplicate registrations. I

21 don't want to use the words red herring, but

22 when you see multiple registrations, that is not

23 de facto voter fraud. In fact, I think if it

24 is, the Representative who just explained that

25 he may or may not have committed voter fraud in 111

1 York County, that goes to the point that there's

2 a difference. And when we conflate these

3 issues, we do so in a way that potentially

4 damages the integrity of our election.

5 SECRETARY CORTÉS: I've just got a very

6 quick comment because we started the

7 conversation about online voter registration.

8 One of the benefits of online voter registration

9 is that the system will not allow you to submit

10 more than one registration; whereas, many times,

11 what happens with the paper registrations is you

12 submit one because you get stopped in the

13 supermarket, then you didn't hear anything about

14 it, and you have no way to hear whether your

15 application is being processed.

16 And then you apply again at another

17 place, and people keep asking you, and you may

18 end up with five registrations, which is not

19 actually illegal, but it's an inconvenience for

20 the county board of elections, who has to now

21 look at all of these forms; whereas with online,

22 you submit one, and that's it, and it goes

23 through and you have a way to have a tracking

24 system, even before your registration.

25 So one more benefit to online voter 112

1 registration, which I believe is the way of the

2 future.

3 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Back to that

4 point, the stipulation during the voter ID

5 debacle, I recollect the quote was the

6 Commonwealth has no investigations or

7 prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in

8 Pennsylvania and the Commonwealth has no direct

9 personal knowledge of any such investigations or

10 prosecutions in other States. That was the case

11 two years ago.

12 Has anything happened subsequently to

13 change that, and if so, can you let us know?

14 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Not that I'm aware

15 of, and I was not in office when that case was

16 being reviewed, but not to my knowledge. Again,

17 as much as I've said over the last hour-plus,

18 again, not a perfect system, sure, things do

19 happen. We have to continue to be vigilant.

20 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: I would just

21 wrap it up then by saying, and I will quote

22 Lindsey Graham, a Republican Senator and a

23 veteran of our Air Force, I believe. I would

24 urge the President to knock this off. This is

25 the greatest democracy on earth. We're the 113

1 leaders of the free world, and people are going

2 to start doubting you as a person if you keep

3 making accusations against our electoral system

4 without justification.

5 I think that's probably a good point for

6 all of us. Thank you, Secretary.

7 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Just make a

9 note, Representative Bradford, that you did go

10 over your time, and the reason the Chairmen of

11 the Appropriations Committee decided to move

12 chairmen to the last was because they have an

13 opportunity to pontificate their wisdom since

14 they are senior members of the Committee. So I

15 thought it would be good to have the chairmen of

16 the members last.

17 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Thank you,

18 Chairman.

19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: At this

20 point, we'll recognize Representative Dunbar.

21 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you,

22 Mr. Chairman. Being neither a chairman or a

23 long-term member, I won't pontificate at all.

24 And in fact, I will try and make my speed round

25 a lot speedier than Representative Quinn's, who 114

1 I still saw a red light on.

2 With that being said --

3 REPRESENTATIVE BRADFORD: Thank you for

4 pointing that out.

5 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: With that being

6 said, Representative Briggs had brought up about

7 filing campaign finance reports online, which I

8 do support and agree with. I just had a really

9 quick question.

10 Is there some reason why, when people

11 file by mail, these reports just can't be

12 scanned and put on the Internet?

13 And if there is some type of data entry

14 that they have to do, which does cost money, if

15 so, why can't we still just do that? Because I

16 believe that the only reason that individuals

17 don't file online is because they're somehow

18 trying to get some type of advantage by delaying

19 having their information posted by a few days,

20 although I have no idea why.

21 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Even quicker answer.

22 We do both. So as soon as they come in, within

23 two days, we scan and we put up. The reason for

24 the data entry is because that's what permits

25 the transparency of searchability. 115

1 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Okay.

2 SECRETARY CORTÉS: So we scan, so the

3 PDF document can come up and people can see it,

4 but then the document, as provided per the Code,

5 has to be data entry so that you can search.

6 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: I'm glad you

7 said that because we should repeat that to

8 everybody; maybe it will stop a lot of the 69

9 percent or whatever, 61 percent, that think

10 they're gaining some advantage.

11 Thank you.

12 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you.

13 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: How was that for

14 time?

15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.

16 Chairman Metcalfe.

17 REPRESENTATIVE METCALFE. Thank you,

18 Chairman Saylor.

19 Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being with

20 us today. It took a little longer than normal

21 years to get to you, but I'm glad that we're

22 able to talk for a couple of minutes here. It's

23 interesting the way the discussion has gone

24 today, especially related to the voter fraud

25 issue. 116

1 First, I don't think you're a masochist,

2 to clarify that, because you had mentioned that

3 earlier in a response. But some of the words

4 that you used do concern me. You and I have had

5 a lot of good discussions related to voting and

6 the Election Code --

7 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Sure.

8 REPRESENTATIVE METCALFE: -- and some of

9 the things that have been taking place, prior to

10 last year's election, many years back, and about

11 last year's election.

12 But when you talked about that you would

13 want to see convictions, and that you didn't see

14 any pervasive voter fraud, there was no systemic

15 voter fraud, my concern -- and I believe your

16 concern is, even though those words were used --

17 is that each and every legally cast vote in the

18 Commonwealth is protected from being nullified

19 by an illegally cast vote.

20 I mean, so often, the electorate, you'll

21 hear from some people, well, my vote doesn't

22 count. Well, I think that we have a duty as

23 elected officials, as appointed individuals in

24 this Commonwealth that are executing the laws

25 that this Commonwealth has in place to protect 117

1 the vote, that we ensure that each and every

2 vote is protected. So I believe you do believe,

3 as I do, that each and every vote, each single

4 vote, doesn't have to be massive to actually

5 disenfranchise the electorate. If any vote is

6 cast that nullifies another legally cast vote,

7 that's wrong.

8 That's an injustice, whether it's your

9 vote being nullified, mine, the Chairman's or an

10 older citizen from Philadelphia, Erie, or a mom

11 of two from Butler County. So I think, first,

12 just to set up, because I noticed some of the

13 words, and I wanted to make sure that we were

14 clear on that.

15 And you said that maybe there are some

16 isolated incidents. Well, as much as the other

17 side tried to decry that there aren't any, I

18 mean, I've got an article here from January of

19 last year that the headline reads, three former

20 Philadelphia election officials pled guilty

21 under a plea deal. It goes on to say, felony

22 fraud charges were dropped because of the plea.

23 So in Philadelphia, fraud that took

24 place, a plea deal that was made, a conviction.

25 I also have, as was mentioned, and you testified 118

1 at the hearing in October, about a month before

2 the election last year, where we had

3 J. Christian Adams testifying. And he provided

4 us with information obtained from Philadelphia,

5 several pages of information related to several

6 years' worth of self-reporting foreign nationals

7 in Philadelphia that had self-reported that they

8 were registered to vote, and they shouldn't be.

9 And when you look at the votes cast by

10 those individuals, there were a larger

11 percentage than there certainly should have

12 been. There should have been zero of those

13 individuals voting, if they would have voted

14 inadvertently when they got their driver's -- or

15 registered inadvertently when they got their

16 driver's license.

17 So we have evidence, just from Philly --

18 you've got 66 counties left -- that foreign

19 nationals in this State, over a period of

20 several years, have registered to vote. Some of

21 them have voted, have disenfranchised legally

22 cast votes. And whether it turned an election

23 or not, I'm not sure, most likely not, but it

24 could have. And if it did, even if it didn't,

25 it's still undermining those legally cast votes. 119

1 In light of that, that is why I sent --

2 every vote needs to be protected, each and every

3 single legally cast vote. That's why I sent you

4 a letter recently, which I'm sure you're in

5 receipt of, to ask you to do as other States

6 have done, which was a recommendation out of the

7 hearing last October, and that is utilize the

8 SAVE System, which is the Systematic Alien

9 Verification for Entitlements Program. That is

10 a Federal program that the States can use to

11 verify that when somebody registers or tries to

12 apply to do something within that State, those

13 State agencies, that we can run them through

14 that system. And if they are a foreign national

15 that's identified in that system, it will help

16 us to identify they're a foreign national and

17 shouldn't be in that program, or in this case,

18 registering to vote in our State.

19 Now, it won't catch all of the illegal

20 aliens that are here that might try and register

21 to vote, but it will stop any foreign national

22 that's in the database. Some might be illegal;

23 some may be here legally. The majority in that

24 system will probably be here legally, but once

25 again, I mean, it's fraud that's being 120

1 committed.

2 I've got three pages -- which I'm happy

3 to give to anybody here that tries to say that

4 it's not occurring -- that came from

5 Philadelphia, information in their voter

6 database that we've had foreign nationals voting

7 in Pennsylvania, not one, not two, but many.

8 And we have election officials in Philadelphia

9 convicted of fraud charges, ultimately pled out.

10 They were charged with fraud and pled out, so

11 there's the conviction. There's the evidence.

12 I need your help, Mr. Secretary, in

13 ensuring that our voter rolls are as clean as

14 possible to make sure every vote is protected.

15 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

16 Mr. Chairman.

17 REPRESENTATIVE METCALFE: Can you help

18 me?

19 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Yes.

20 REPRESENTATIVE METCALFE: With the SAVE

21 System?

22 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Let me ask you; I

23 will put it back on you.

24 Is it your sense, because you and I go

25 back many, many, many years, is it your sense, 121

1 and I use the words carefully -- I'm not a

2 wordsmith, but when people start talking about

3 1, 2, 3, 5, 100, let me just go back to your

4 point, because we will agree, the sanctity of

5 the vote and voting and democracy ought to be

6 protected. All right?

7 In an ideal world, it happens. We,

8 unfortunately, don't live in an ideal world.

9 That's not an excuse; I'm just talking about

10 reality. I'm talking about facts. That's why I

11 went out of my way to say to you, sir, to say to

12 you, I'm not saying unequivocally, it doesn't

13 happen. Is one too many? Absolutely, I agree.

14 All right?

15 But I want to just make sure that I

16 leave the room here today with at least a sense

17 of whether you believe that over the years I've

18 been a good partner to you, to your Committee,

19 and to the people of Pennsylvania.

20 Do you have any evidence or anything

21 that would suggest to you, that we have ever, in

22 the exercise of our duties -- and I speak for

23 myself, I don't put it on anyone else, although

24 everybody here is super ethical -- when I raise

25 my hand and I say that I will, you know, protect 122

1 and support and defend the Constitution of the

2 United States and the Constitution of this

3 Commonwealth, I do so. And I swear in more

4 people than most around this room.

5 So you know, I hope that, by my actions,

6 not my words, you and others in this Committee

7 are satisfied that I mean it. So the short

8 answer is yes, sir; I will continue to work with

9 you. I will continue to look for ways. The

10 SAVE Program is something that I'm looking at.

11 I want to talk to the other jurisdictions. I

12 haven't because I want to do due diligence.

13 That's just who I am.

14 But you know, and I hope that you have a

15 clear sense that, with me, what I do, I do with

16 a deep sense of integrity. And when I raised my

17 hand and took that oath, I meant it, and I'm

18 going to do it. So we're on the same page

19 there. So your point is well taken.

20 REPRESENTATIVE METCALFE: Thank you,

21 Mr. Chairman.

22 I appreciate you looking into the SAVE

23 System. And from our work together over the

24 years, I have no question, from our relationship

25 of working together on these issues, that you 123

1 have the same intent as I do, and that's to

2 uphold and defend the Constitution and make sure

3 that our laws are being executed, but I wanted

4 to clarify today.

5 And certainly the words that were used,

6 I wanted to make sure that everyone knows that

7 you do believe, just as I do, that every vote

8 counts and that we need to make sure that we

9 protect each and every legally cast vote from

10 being canceled out by any illegally cast votes.

11 I appreciate you looking into the SAVE System to

12 help us do that.

13 Thank you.

14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Chairman

15 Markosek.

16 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: Thank you,

17 Mr. Secretary, and the folks, the Deputies that

18 you brought along, and Director. Very, very

19 good; very interesting.

20 We got into a lot of different issues,

21 but I'm sure as we move on, we'll be looking

22 forward to working with you. So thank you very

23 much. Very good answers.

24 SECRETARY CORTÉS: Thank you,

25 Mr. Chairman. 124

1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Mr.

2 Secretary, just a couple of comments that I

3 have. One of the things that, as Representative

4 Miccarelli mentioned, about 7,000 applications

5 for voter application showing up the day of the

6 deadline, you know, immediately, I would

7 immediately say fraud. It doesn't mean they

8 are, but it is an appearance that makes it. I

9 mean, you look at what people believe out there,

10 it's about perception; it's not always true.

11 And if people have to believe in our

12 election system, you can't even be showing up

13 the day before our election, any one

14 organization, and saying here's 300 or even 500

15 registrations. So if people don't want to say

16 that there is fraud in a system, they have to

17 work the system in a way that doesn't look like

18 they're committing fraud.

19 So I think that is something that needs

20 to be communicated to organizations, whether

21 it's the Republican Party, Democratic Party or

22 any organizations, as a committee. It's no

23 different if you go to a festival and you

24 register 200 or 300 people at some festival or

25 street fair and you turn them in that following 125

1 week.

2 But when these kinds of things are

3 happening, that we hear, those are the kinds of

4 things that give the public this perception, and

5 politicians, as well, the perception there's

6 something wrong. And I think those are the real

7 key things.

8 And some of the other things that I will

9 mention that, I don't know how you fix these,

10 but I have had a number of voters, Democrats and

11 Republicans, who have talked about their

12 registration being changed when they go in and

13 review their registration on the cards, where

14 they were switched from Democrat to Republican

15 and Republican to Democrat. I come from a

16 Republican county, so I get more of the

17 complaints from Republicans than I do Democrats,

18 but it's happened to both sides, and that's very

19 frustrating to them. They feel there's

20 something shady going on.

21 York County, being a Republican county,

22 they think it's the County's Registration

23 Office, who is a Republican, who is doing it.

24 So those are things that we need to look at,

25 some of these programs, to try and make sure 126

1 those kinds of things don't happen. I don't

2 know what caused it, whether it's a typo or what

3 it is, but those are the kinds of things that I

4 think, again, trouble people.

5 The other thing that I will mention from

6 this election, and it was a very busy election,

7 was people who registered online. I had a lot

8 of young people come in to register -- come in

9 to vote on Election Day who didn't show up on

10 the voters rolls. They, of course, got

11 provisional ballots.

12 That's another thing, I think, that we

13 have to look at, to make sure that the system is

14 working properly. I did not follow up, I will

15 be honest, to see that those individuals, young

16 and old, who had registered online really were

17 registered in a timely fashion. But again, I

18 ask you to look at that system to make sure that

19 people who register on time can vote and are not

20 suspicious of the system, as well. And I'm one

21 of those who say that computers are great, and

22 technology, but it also creates a lot of

23 problems. So, Mr. Secretary, I want to thank

24 you for coming today, and for your answers;

25 also, to your staff for a great job. 127

1 And with that, we're going to adjourn.

2 The Committee will reconvene tomorrow morning at

3 10:00 a.m. to hear from our retirement systems,

4 SERS and PSERS. Thank you. The meeting is

5 adjourned.

6 (Whereupon, the hearing concluded.)

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1 CERTIFICATE

2

3 I hereby certify that the proceedings

4 are contained fully and accurately in the notes

5 taken by me on the within proceedings and that

6 this is a correct transcript of the same.

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10 Tiffany L. Mast, Reporter

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