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Oral History Interview with Jack Waller, March 28, 2013

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Oral History Interview with Jack Waller, March 28, 2013 Archives and Special Collections Mansfield Library, University of Montana Missoula MT 59812-9936 Email: [email protected] Telephone: (406) 243-2053 This transcript represents the nearly verbatim record of an unrehearsed interview. Please bear in mind that you are reading the spoken word rather than the written word. Oral History Number: 438-005 Interviewee: Jack Waller Interviewer: Mark Gibbons Date of Interview: March 28, 2013 Project: Ed Lahey Oral History Project Mark Gibbons: This is Mark Gibbons and I'm in Twin Bridges, Montana. It's March 28, 2013, and I'm interviewing Jack Waller about Ed Lahey. So Jack...our second run, actually we did a dress rehearsal. We're ready now. Where did your relationship begin with Ed? Jack Waller: I found out last night in talking with Roger Dunsmore it was actually 1991. I had moved to Rumsey, Montana, a little area outside of Phillipsburg, in 1989 and had just completed a master's degree in English and Creative Writing and decided to retreat to a cabin in Montana to live the life of a poet. In the process I found out about a Copper Village Art Museum and Cultural Center in Anaconda. So I contacted them and they told me about a new program originating in Billings called "Tumble Words". It was a program that brought poets from so-called "underserved areas", and I was told there was a showcase happening in Helena with a roster of poets to listen to and to make decisions about inviting them to Anaconda. In that showcase in Helena I heard several poets and was interested, I thought it was a great program. But then I was told, "If you haven't heard Ed Lahey, he's the poet you should definitely listen to." So I checked the schedule and there was a reading by Ed Lahey and I went and I was blown away. His voice, his speaking voice, was so powerful and the content of his poetry so impressive that I immediately knew this was a man, a poet I wanted to get to know, and definitely bring to Anaconda for the reading series. So it was that year that Roger Dunsmore and Ed Lahey came to Anaconda. I didn't know Ed much at all so I asked Roger if he would introduce Ed. He gave a great introduction and Ed followed with probably the best poetry reading I've ever attended. It's a mix not only of how he delivered his poems but his ad­ libs in between and the way he would put them in context. Such a gifted speaker. And by gifted I mean, it flowed, once he got going the flow was truly amazing. As result of that I found out more about Missoula and the literary scene there. He invited me to come and attend some of the literary events in Missoula. I was somewhat aware of Missoula because I had a friend who lived in Arlee. So I made a trip there that became almost a routine for years. Spending the night with Ed, attending a poetry reading and many times it was not Ed, it was other readers. But those evenings and the days following introduced me to Ed as the most gifted conversationalist I'd ever known. We could discuss poetry and life and discuss our similarities. I have in front of me a list that I made this morning of some of the things that we shared. That became almost a pilgrimage to the literary mecca that Missoula was considered to be. It was also deeply fascinating to me that Ed, being in Missoula, was almost as 1 Jack Waller Interview, OH 438-005, Archives and Special Collections, Mansfield Library, University of Montana-Missoula. the biblical saying goes, "A profit without honor in his own country." I thought it was remarkable that...I know his background in Butte and I learned about that. But he had a long history in Missoula with the university and Dick Hugo of course, and all of the great moments and the really challenging times he had there. As I learned more about those I realized we shared a common reaction to the Vietnam War. We approached it differently. Ed was very protest oriented, very public, and involved in the demonstrations and the things that eventually got him into trouble with the university. I had become a conscientious objector and I was not given to public protests. Even though I was out in the Bay Area in California at the start of the Vietnam War and during my college time, we shared a reaction to the Vietnam War, to government and a number of things. I also found out that we shared a blue collar family history. My father was a steel fabricator and a welder and we had that history in common. We definitely shared a life centered...as the poet Rilke advised—I more so then than in recent times—we shared that concern for a life centered around poetry, especially around writing and written poetry and spoken poetry and we came to consider each other brothers in the art. We used that expression in our correspondence and that's another really key part of my appreciation of Ed. In the boxes that I'll be sending with Mark to the archives in Missoula are countless letters. He was a truly gifted correspondent, and that was pre e-mail days. Later in our relationship, he tried e-mail a little bit but it didn't work, (laughs) He just wrote so fluently and he was truly a correspondent, it was a dialogue through the mail. A lot of it focused on poetry, a lot of it focused on the life that I was living at that time. He had an appreciation that poetry is more than just writing, it's more than just language; it's the life of a maker. We shared an interest in the outdoors and nature walks. When I was in Missoula we'd go to Greenough Park and stroll along and chat about things. We'd go to Council Grove along the river and stroll and chat about things. He had a focus on the life that I greatly admired. I tended to be more scattered than that. He would comment, especially when we talked about poetry, he would talk about my writing practice and how it amazed him that I had so many scattered poems in progress. Hundreds of them, most of them are still unfinished. It was hard for him to comprehend because his practice was one poem at a time. He said, "I focus on it, I write it, and I don't move on until it seems finished to me." He would go back later and make slight revisions but he was a one poem at a time writer. That was his approach. We also shared an enjoyment of hot springs. I'm trying to think of the one he liked so much...down south of Missoula...Lolo Hot Springs. We went to Sleeping Child hot springs. And all of those we would soak and chat. He thoroughly enjoyed that. After that, well every time we were together, we shared our tastes for good Irish whiskey. That was a key part of our...I jokingly called them a two man symposium, our drinking parties. We'd enjoy the whiskey and enjoy the conversation. It was something that eventually became a problem for me as well as for Ed. The whiskey— 2 Jack Waller Interview, OH 438-005, Archives and Special Collections, Mansfield Library, University of Montana-Missoula. MG: Didn't he have a good capacity? That's generally what happens, you have that kind of capacity, eventually when it catches up it's like somebody turns a switch. JW: The word I used for that is tolerance. His body, it's such a physical tolerance. There were times I'd bring a bottle and between the two of us we'd finish it off. I was going to add too that we shared an appreciation for fine women as well. I tried this morning to find a copy of this poem, and I can't even remember who wrote it now. I think I can find it and I'd like to. The poem's entitled, "The Sweaty Old Bull." It's about a story of a chief who's given a young bride. The poem is very sensual, it's a beautiful story. But the sweaty old bull was a very old man. The poem describes a young woman coming to his teepee and undressing and sliding under the buffalo robe while the chief sat and stared into the teepee fire. Ed loved that poem for its sensuality and also for the way it ended. The young woman was very shy and very beautiful and in the morning she awoke (pause, slight noise of crying) and the sweaty old bull was still sitting there dead. Ed loved that because I think to him it spoke not only to the sensuality and the old bull's appreciation but that that was his last vision. One of the other things, in my notes here that I really wanted to emphasize, were that there were years, I would say, oh, maybe seven, eight years, with Ed that were really special. Really valuable for all the reasons that I'm talking about. Then there was a transition time brought on largely by alcohol and drugs and other factors where I — MG: When you said drugs, like— JW: Prescription drugs, medications.
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