The Legacy of : ​ An Interview with Mrs. Dalene Erasmus

Interviewer: Alexa Potter Interviewee: Mrs. Dalene Erasmus Instructor: Mr. Haight Date of Submission: 2/14/17

Table of Contents

Interviewee Release Form………………………………………………………………………....2 Interviewer Release Form…………………………………………………………………………3 Statement of Purpose…………….………………………………………………………………..4 Biography………………………………………………………………………………………....5 Historical Contextualization Paper: “The Uprising: A Turning Point for Apartheid”...... 6 Interview Transcription…………………………………………………………………………..19 Interview Analysis………………………………………………………………………….……40 Appendix…………………………………………………………………………………………45 Works Consulted…………………………………………………………………………………49

INTERVIEWEE RELEASE FORM

Statement of Purpose The purpose of this project is to gain the perspective of an eye witness of apartheid in

South Africa through and interview with Mrs. Dalene Erasmus. During the interview, Mrs.

Erasmus reflects on her life during apartheid, her direct encounters with activists, and the work she has done to help South Africans recover from apartheid. This project serves as an opportunity for the reader to gain an in depth understanding of the effects that apartheid had on

South Africa and how they are still prevalent today. This perspective is gained through an emotional interview with Mrs. Erasmus, where she expresses her feelings towards the apartheid legacy, which is considered to be the darkest era of South African history.

Biography

Dalene Erasmus was born in Johannesburg, South Africa on December 9, 1957. As a child, Mrs. Erasmus was raised in an affluent household in Johannesburg, where both and English were spoken. She attended private school through high school and received a fairly conservative education. Mrs. Erasmus went on to leave Johannesburg to attend college, and received her college education from University of Cape Town. Mrs. Erasmus worked as a social worker, both as a consultant and a behavior assessor for over twenty five years. During

Apartheid, despite her conservative upbringing, Mrs. Erasmus considered herself a liberal. Mrs.

Erasmus participated in many small-scale movements against apartheid, including signing multiple “Free Mandela” petitions. She is currently retired from social services and living in

Johannesburg, South Africa with her husband and three sons.

The : A Turning Point for Apartheid

Antoinette Sithole, the sister of a victim, recalls the events of June 16, 1976, saying “All

of the sudden there were sounds like gunshots, so we as people, scattered around, hiding

ourselves in the nearby houses.”1 She was referring to gunshots fired by the South African

police force deployed to intervene in peaceful protests by Sowetan teenagers. Students took to

the streets to demonstrate against oppressive laws, in particular the Afrikaans Medium Decree,

which required schools to be taught in Afrikaans, a foreign language to the students.2 While it is

commonly understood that the passing of this decree was the leading cause of the Soweto

uprising, this tragic event, which resulted in the death of more than 500 teens, was the inevitable

result of decades of numerous oppressive laws. To gain perspective on the causes of the Soweto

uprising, and the events that occurred thereafter, it is important to shed light on the prevalent

racism which dominated South Africa, due to the fascist leadership in place. This perspective is

best gained from the account of an eye witness. It is important to get an eye witness account to

fully grasp the magnitude of the fatal events of that day, the motives of the demonstrators, and

the emotions involved in the infamous event of July 16, 1976, that is the Soweto massacre. Not

only is it important to gain perspective from the victims of the event, but it is equally as

important to hold the perpetrators, the apartheid leaders, accountable for their horrific actions,

which resulted in the death of 575 people.3

1 "Soweto Eyewitness - Antoinette Sithole." Interview by Carole Bos. AwesomeStories.com. WWSU ​ ​ ​ Rampages, 7 Oct. 2013. Web. 9 Dec. 2016. 2 Boddy-Evans, Alistair. "The Afrikaans Medium Decree That Led to the Soweto Uprising."About.com ​ ​ Education. About Inc., 19 Feb. 2016. Web. 09 Dec. 2016. ​ 3 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print.(pg. 213)

Leading up to the Soweto uprising was the legacy of the apartheid regime, which began

in 1948, when the National Party was elected into office,4 defeating the South African Party.

The National Party was largely elected because their campaign was to create a system that

oppressed the black population of South Africa. The National Party’s goal was to have a society

based on segregation of the black majority from the white minority. The most effective means of

enforcing apartheid was through legislation. One of the laws that built the foundation for

apartheid was the Group Areas Act, passed in 1950.5 Its purpose was to contain all non-whites

in designated areas. This segregated each ethnicity, especially black Africans, in order for the

apartheid regime to maintain complete control, and easily regulate each township.

The black Africans, being the vast majority, were not easily controlled by the racist

apartheid regime. However, the leaders of the regime were well aware that revolts against

apartheid would be difficult to quell. Talk of rebellion became more prominent after the Group

Areas Act was passed, and many Africans refused to be displaced.6 Consequently, forceful

measures were used by the regime to remove blacks from their homes, dismantle their tribes, and

relocate them to designated areas. The apartheid regime was not only displacing them, but

attempting to eliminate their culture. After a great deal of defiance from black citizens, the

Group Areas Act was not repealed, but rather reinforced by the Prevention of Illegal Squatting

Act,7 which granted local and government authorities the ability to forcibly remove blacks from

4 Riley, Eileen. "Major Political Events in South Africa, 1948-1990." (Book, 1991) [WorldCat.org]. ​ ​ ​ Facts on File Inc., 09 May 2016. Web. 09 Dec. 2016. 5 " in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016.

6 Ibid. 7 "Apartheid Legislation in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016.

both privately and publically owned land. While this created more oppressive circumstances for

blacks, it showed that the apartheid regime was unable to enforce fully their prior act, and felt

threatened by black African defiance.

In an attempt to combat these apartheid laws, a group of black anti-apartheid activists

banded together to begin the Defiance Campaign, lead by the African National Congress or

ANC.8 The ANC was a social and political party comprised of black anti-apartheid activists, one

of the most noteable being . The Defiance Campaign was launched with promotion of

peaceful protests, and unarmed demonstrations against the inhumane laws of the apartheid

regime. The campaign was launched in 1952, but was initially unsuccessful due to the ANC’s

lack of resources, members, and power. Importantly, the Defiance Campaign laid the foundation

of the many more anti-apartheid movements to come.

Yet another constricting law passed by the apartheid regime was the Natives Act,

commonly known as the “Pass Laws.”9 These laws stated that blacks must carry photo

identification with them at all times or be subject to arrest. They were put in place to discourage

blacks from leaving their designated townships, and to control black citizens in an even more

constricting fashion, while enforcing segregation. Blacks responded by joining the ANC’s

Defiance Campaign, because they believed these laws violated their human rights. With racial

tensions at an all time high, it was inevitable that violence would break out in of South Africa.

On March 21, 1960, the African National Congress planned a peaceful demonstration

against the Pass Laws. This was a significant movement because women were also invited to

8 Ibid. 9 Riley, Eileen. "Major Political Events in South Africa, 1948-1990." (Book, 1991) [WorldCat.org]. ​ ​ ​ Facts on File Inc., 09 May 2016. Web. 09 Dec. 2016. (pg. 36)

demonstrate alongside the men of the ANC.10 The goal of this demonstration was to arrive as a

group at the Sharpeville Police Station without their photo identification, and in direct violation

of the Pass Laws. Upon arrival, the peaceful protesters were met with anger by the police force.

The enraged and nervous officers open fired on the crowd of protestors and what began as a

peaceful demonstration, resulted in the murder of 67 protesters and the injury of 186.11 The

demonstration became known as the notorious , and served as a catalyst in

the anti-apartheid movement.

At the same time that movement of blacks was restricted, apartheid took aim at

education. Historically, there was a multi-racial school system in place, which was largely

sponsored by missionaries, with the assistance of the state. After the Group Areas Act was

passed, the apartheid regime saw it advantageous to their cause to reinvent the education system.

The core of the reinvention was the Bantu Education Act, passed in 195312 to inhibit black

education to an extreme degree. The Bantu Education Act promoted a separate education system

designed to educate blacks only enough to be able to work as laborers for the white minority.

The motive of the apartheid regime was clearly to keep black Africans in perpetual servitude.13

Blacks were denied equal education, and because of that they were denied equal

opportunity. The Bantu Education Act was the ultimate form of reinforcement of apartheid

because it was an attempt to keep the black majority powerless, ignorant, and unable to revolt

against their inhumane treatment. Exploitation of black labor was a secondary motive of the

10 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. 11 Ibid. 12 "Apartheid Legislation in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016. 13 The United Nations. Repository.un.org. Proc. of Security Council Official Records, New York. The ​ ​ ​ United Nations, 26 Nov. 1984. Web. 8 Dec. 2016, The President

apartheid regime which was promoted by the Bantu Education Act. The Bantu education system

was formed in such a way that blacks were educated only enough to work as manual laborers, so

that educated whites could reap the benefits of their labor. In fact, government spent ten times

more on the education of white students as they did on black students.14

The Bantu Education system both prevented black children from receiving an equal

education and broke their moral. They were beginning to realize the cold reality of what Prime

Minister Verwoerd once said, “false hopes must not be raised in the minds and aspirations of

Africans, as the green pastures in South Africa are not for them.”15 However, this was a reality

that many black teens were not willing to accept. An influx of black teenagers began to join the

ANC’s attempts to rebel against apartheid. While the Bantu Education Act was another

extension of apartheid, it had a positive impact on the ANC’s Defiance Campaign.

While apartheid continued to erode the rights of blacks, the African National Congress

provided them with the means to take a stand against their unfair treatment. With the influx of

people joining anti-apartheid activist organizations, demonstrations became more widespread.

While the majority of the ANC’s demonstrations were designed to be peaceful, some turned

violent. Police and government officials were given orders to quell the ANC’s demonstrations

by any means, which resulted in their use of dogs, tear gas, and even guns to dismantle the

ANC’s peaceful demonstrations. The racist regime felt threatened by these strikes, which were

only becoming more common, and felt compelled to reassert their power using their most

effective means -- legislation.

14 Goodman, David, and Paul Weinberg. Fault Lines: Journeys into the New South Africa. Berkeley, ​ ​ ​ CA: U of California, 1999. Print. 15 The United Nations. Repository.un.org. Proc. of Security Council Official Records, New York. The ​ ​ ​ United Nations, 26 Nov. 1984. Web. 8 Dec. 2016, Mr. Mhlambiso

For example, the apartheid regime passed the Native Labour Act in 1953, which

criminalized any form of anti-apartheid demonstration by blacks.16 Not only did this criminalize

public demonstration by the ANC and other anti-apartheid organizations, it deemed any form of

rebellion illegal. As the ANC was gaining power and publicity, the apartheid regime saw it

necessary to dismantle anti-apartheid activist groups by any means possible, as they were

becoming a threat to apartheid. This law however, did not succeed completely. The ANC still

met in secret and continued to do everything in their power to rebel against apartheid, even at the

expense of their own lives and freedom.

The face of the anti-apartheid movement was Steve Biko. He was just 17 years old when

he began his lifelong career in black activism.17 Biko became an active participant in

anti-apartheid meetings, and an open anti-apartheid activist, which made him a target for the

racist regime. As Biko’s involvement in black activism increased, he took on the cause of the

corrupt black education system. Specifically, he promoted the idea of “Black Consciousness.”

Biko defined “Black Consciousness” as the “realization by the black man of the need to rally

together with his brothers around the cause of their subjection.”18 The Black Consciousness

movement embodied the idea of black pride. Their reinvigorated notion of racial pride caused

the black community to band together and cooperate to rid themselves of white oppression and

exploitation.

16 "Apartheid Legislation in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016. 17 Sahistory.org.za. "Stephen Bantu Biko." Anonymous. South African History Online, n.d. Web. 10 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016. 18 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print.

Unfortunately, as Black Consciousness spread, so did the apartheid regime. The stronger

the ANC became, the harder apartheid leaders worked to dismantle anti-apartheid organizations.

However, black pride ignited a movement that could not be dismantled by the apartheid regime,

because blacks were willing to sacrifice not only their freedom, but their lives. They no longer

sought to reform the apartheid system, but rather exterminate it completely. Black

Consciousness was particularly intriguing to the younger generation of urban blacks. As

teenagers became more involved in the movement, the ideology of Black Consciousness

penetrated the urban schools.19 School children were coming to the realization that they were

receiving an extremely inferior education. Consequently, they decided to take a stand, but could

not nearly begin to predict the results of their actions.

One of the largest black townships was Soweto, which stands for South-West Townships.

This area was geographically convenient for anti-apartheid activism, given that Soweto is an

urban township located near Johannesburg. The centrally located township became a haven for

anti-apartheid activists, and bred a generation of tenacious teenagers, who thrived on the ideals

of Black Consciousness. Sowetan teens refused to remain idle in their mistreatment. They

yearned to change the system during their lifetime and were groping for an issue or incident to

serve as a catalyst.20 The government-imposed catalyst for their cause was the passing of the

Afrikaans Medium Decree.21 The Afrikaans Medium Decree stated that all schools were to be

taught in Afrikaans, the language of the apartheid regime. Not only was Afrikaans a completely

19 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print. 20 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. 21 "Apartheid Legislation in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016.

foreign language to the black children of Soweto, but it was the language of their oppressors.

This embellishment on the already hindering Bantu Education Act was exactly the catalyst that

young anti-apartheid activists waiting for. The black teens were going to prove relentless to their

cause, and would stop at nothing to reach their goal, equal education. With the sheer density and

determination of the Sowetan teens, the apartheid leaders and law enforcement could no longer

keep ignoring their cause.

The students of Soweto, the majority being teens, began to meet frequently at Orlando

West Junior High School to draft a memorandum against being taught in Afrikaans.22 These

mass meetings were criminal under the Native Labour Act,23 and therefore police had the right to

intervene, even though no violence was taking place. As these drafting meetings became more

frequent, the local police force became more aware of the anti-apartheid activity that took place

at Orlando West Junior High School. It was inevitable that these meetings would result in a

clash between students and police, which is exactly what happened on July 16, 1976.

The morning of July 16th began like many others for the Sowetan teens. There was a

mass meeting held at Orlando West Junior High School to continue drafting the memorandum.

As the teens were meeting, they were blindsided by police, who entered the school to dismantle

the illicit meeting.24 As word of police activity spread, between 10,000 and 25,000 teens

gathered to peacefully march in protest of the police invasion. These students gathered to

demonstrate against the police invasion, the Afrikaans Medium Decree, the Bantu Education

22 "Soweto Eyewitness - Antoinette Sithole." Interview by Carole Bos.AwesomeStories.com. WWSU ​ ​ ​ Rampages, 7 Oct. 2013. Web. 9 Dec. 2016. 23 "Apartheid Legislation in South Africa." Gandhi Luthuli Documentation Centre. N.p., n.d. Web. 09 ​ ​ ​ Dec. 2016. 24 "Soweto Eyewitness - Antoinette Sithole." Interview by Carole Bos.AwesomeStories.com. WWSU ​ ​ ​ Rampages, 7 Oct. 2013. Web. 9 Dec. 2016.

Act, and apartheid as a whole.25 This unorganized demonstration became overwhelmingly

intense for police, and in the words of philosopher Jan C. Smuts, “You might as well try to

sweep back the ocean with a broom.”26 However, the police did not use a broom, but rather

loaded ammunition into their weapons as they prepared to disband the demonstrators.

The streets of Soweto were flooded with adamant teens, chanting “Amandla Awethu!”27

This chant, meaning “power to the people,” signaled that they were not going to be silenced

anymore, and would not cease their protests until they were given the power they yearned for,

equality. Their chants were met with a force of threatening police, who possessed an equal

determination for the apartheid regime. The inadequate knot of police was met by thousands on

all sides,28 and police knew they were extremely outnumbered. However, the protesters were

blindsided by the authorities’ following actions, due to the lack of police-to-people

communication.29 The police began to fire randomly at the crowd of youth, who had no more

than rocks and pebbles to defend themselves. While doing so, a bullet hit 13-year-old Hector

Pieterson, killing him within minutes.30 Hector Pieterson’s death lead to madness in the crowd of

protestors, and the demonstration quickly became a bloodbath. The violence of the unconsolable

protesters, mixed with the aggression of trigger-happy police, resulted in the death of 575 people:

25 Ibid. 26 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. (pg. 171) 27 Ibid (pg. 172) 28 Ibid (pg. 173) 29 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. (pg. 173) 30 "Soweto Eyewitness - Antoinette Sithole." Interview by Carole Bos.AwesomeStories.com. WWSU ​ ​ ​ Rampages, 7 Oct. 2013. Web. 9 Dec. 2016.

494 black, 75 coloureds, 5 whites, and 1 indian,31 naming this infamous riot “The Soweto

Massacre.”

Word spread fast of the tragedy when an iconic photograph taken by Sam Nzima made

international headlines. It depicted 13 year old Hector Pieterson in the arms of an older boy, just

after he had been fatally shot. This photo shocked not only South Africa, but the world, as the

cruel realities of apartheid were being exposed. The immediate effect of the Soweto Massacre

was a chain reaction of violence32 in other townships of South Africa. Journalists reporting to

the United Nations stated that the “situation is deteriorating hourly in black sections of the

largest suburb of Johannesburg, where bloody riots have been exploding for two days now.”33

Shortly after the massacre, the apartheid regime ordered mass arrests of apartheid activists.

Among the arrested was Steve Biko. He was charged for his involvement both in the uprising

and in other rebellions against the apartheid regime, and was killed while in police custody.34

The apartheid regime’s loss of control was evident, and the Soweto uprising marked a turning

point in the history of South Africa, and fueled the movements which would proceed to end

apartheid.

The Soweto uprising had an extreme impact on the world. Due to the magnitude of what

took place, the international community certainly had a lot of questions for South Africa. The

uprising made global headlines, with the photo of Hector Pieterson on the cover of global

newspapers. Michael Kernan wrote in The Washington Post about prominent black leaders, ​ ​

31 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print. 32 The United Nations. Repository.un.org. Proc. of Security Council Official Records, New York. The ​ ​ ​ United Nations, 26 Nov. 1984. Web. 8 Dec. 2016, Mr. Rahal 33 Ibid. 34 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print. (pg. 213)

such as Gatsha Buthelezi. He went on to say that Buthelezi played a role in “urging the Soweto

riots.”35 Buthelezi had not only been pushing for riots, but had been cautioning teens on what

could happen, by “urging moderation and warning the young black radicals of backlash by the

silent majority of Africans.”36 Another article was written in the prominent New York Times by ​ ​ Kathleen Teltsch, interviewing a South African teen, who corroborated that the unarmed

protestors of Soweto were wrongly attacked, by saying “there were no outside agitators in the

Soweto uprising. It was a revolt sparked by protests against the imposed use in high schools of

Afrikaans.”37 These newspaper articles portrayed the global outrage to the Soweto massacre.

Due to the high concentration of black youth, and anti-apartheid activism in Soweto, it

may have seemed inevitable that violence would break out. Leonard Thompson, author of A ​ History of South Africa argues that Soweto bred anti-apartheidism, and created the environment ​ for such demonstrations. Thompson attributes this to the overwhelmingly dense population,

saying “In Soweto, with a population of over one million, by 1976, seventeen to twenty people

were living in a typical four-room house.”38 He also argues that the harsh living conditions,

along with the concentrated population of people in Soweto, both played major roles in

promoting anti-apartheid activism. On the other hand, historian and author K.C. Tessendorf

disagrees with Thompson’s statement, saying “although Afrikaners were oppressing the native’s

35 Kernan, Michael. "Historical Newspapers." Historical Newspapers. The Washington Post, 2 Sept. ​ ​ ​ 1976. Web. 08 Dec. 2016. 36 Kernan, Michael. "Historical Newspapers." Historical Newspapers. The Washington Post, 2 Sept. ​ ​ ​ 1976. Web. 08 Dec. 2016. 37 Teltsch, Kathleen. "Historical Newspapers." Historical Newspapers. New York Times, 8 Dec. ​ ​ ​ ​ 1976. Web. 8 Dec. 2016. 38 Thompson, Leonard Monteath. A History of South Africa. New Haven: Yale UP, 1990. 188-23. ​ ​ ​ Print. (pg. 202)

civil rights, they were certainly helping them out in a material way.”39 Tessendorf goes on to say

that “apartheid planners had laid out Soweto to be as close to heaven as its denizens would likely

ever get.”40 Although both historians can agree that Soweto bred apartheid rebellion, they argue

different reasons for Soweto’s notorious involvement in anti-apartheid activity.

In Laila Salimi’s Oral History Project interview with Marjorie Madikoto, Salimi focused

on how anti-apartheid activism had a direct impact on Madikoto’s life. Madikoto began by

explaining that anti-apartheid groups would recruit young boys to become involved in their

organizations.41 She then went on to say that by joining an anti-apartheid organization, they

became “anti social as far as the mainstream was concerned.”42 Association with anti-apartheid

groups often put a family at risk, much like in the case of Marjorie Madikoto and her family.

Their association with the African National Congress made them subject to raids, and a target of

the apartheid regime. Madikoto recalls how “police would go in by the dozens with dogs and

they assaulted my brother a couple of times.”43 Madikoto makes the point that being a teen

involved in anti-apartheid was dangerous, but for many, including the demonstrators of the

Soweto uprising, it is a risk worth taking.

The anti-apartheid struggle continued for 18 years after the Soweto uprising, until

apartheid’s extinguishment in 1994. Since then, South Africa has grown to recognize the Soweto

39 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. (pg. 170) 40 Tessendorf, K. C. Along the Road to Soweto: A Racial History of South Africa. New York: ​ ​ ​ Atheneum, 1989. Print. (pg. 170) 41 Madikoto, Marjorie. "The History of apartheid Through the Eyes of a Witness : An Interview with ​ Marjorie Madikoto :: American Century Project - St. Andrew's Episcopal School." American Century ​ Project - St. Andrew's Episcopal School. Laila Salimi, 2004. Web. 09 Dec. 2016. ​ 42 Madikoto, Marjorie. "The History of apartheid Through the Eyes of a Witness : An Interview with ​ Marjorie Madikoto :: American Century Project - St. Andrew's Episcopal School." American Century ​ Project - St. Andrew's Episcopal School. Laila Salimi, 2004. Web. 09 Dec. 2016. ​ 43 Ibid.

uprising as a national holiday that honors Hector Pieterson, along with the many others who were killed during the massacre. This holiday is named “Youth Day,” as it recognizes the ongoing fight for equal education among all students. While the massacre was catastrophic, it seems that it was necessary to begin the process of eliminating the evils of apartheid.

Interview Transcription

Interviewee/Narrator: Dalene Erasmus Interviewer: Alexa Potter Location: Skype This interview was reviewed and edited by Alexa Potter

Alexa Potter: Where in South Africa did you grow up? ​

Dalene Erasmus: I grew up in Johannesburg, I was born in Johannesburg, so I’m a city girl. ​

AP: How would you say that the effects of Apartheid were prevalent in South Africa during your ​ childhood?

DE: You know, I grew up in a fairly conservative Afrikaans home, you know my dad was from ​ the rural area, he grew up on a farm, so I think he was a little bit more conservative than my mom, who also grew up in the city. But you know, Apartheid was something that we were born into, so as a child I never gave it any thought, it was just the way of life. We all had black domestic workers in the home, and they lived outside in a room and they would never share any facilities or anything with the white people and that is just the way I grew up, I never had any black children with me at school, and the only black person would be the person to look after the grounds. So it was quite isolated, we didn’t know black people. You’d never receive them as guests, you’d never, they were the workers and even in the shops we only had white people

working in the shops, the black people really did the very lowest level of jobs. That is the way I grew up.

AP: How would you describe the school system in South Africa when you were growing up? ​

DE: I think our education was quite good at the time, but it was whites only so most of the black ​ children and people were very uneducated, and when they had an education, it was of a very poor quality, so when I started to work, that was very interesting, I’d do assessments and development of behavior, and I started in that as a consultant. We had a consultant in our organization who is a black man who did the assessment and training of black people in organizations and that was, Alexa, that was towards the beginning of the eighties, when I started working. And he had to do the work with the black people because it was unfair, you know, we did psychological assessments, and it would've been unfair to try to asses them in English, you know, all the tests and everything were developed in English and he had to do it so that he could translate and do the exercises in their mother tongue, he spoke five languages. Even with him, and he was an educated man, you know, he had two decrees, his English was so bad that I had to rewrite all of his reports to go out to the client because even with his education, his English was really not good. That was purely a result of the poor education that he was exposed to, he studied through UNISA, which was done on a part time basis, so he had to study at night after work, but even with his degree, his English was really not good and the kind of people that he assists were all low level laborers in the construction industry, and that sort of thing. It was only later in my career that black people were appointed in more senior positions, management

positions, and a lot of them were not educated in South Africa because they left the country.

They were educated elsewhere and then they came back. So you know, those people were on a completely different label as most of the black people that I dealt with in my younger days.

Even at university, there were no black students, where I studied. Nothing, not one.

AP: Were they not able to get good jobs because their lack of, or poor education? [6:35] ​ ​

DE: Definitely, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind. They were seen as not being intelligent ​ enough because of their lack of education. Because they never had the exposure, so I think most white people, specifically in the more rural areas would see them as not intelligent

AP: Historian Jonathan Kozol says “Apartheid does not happen spontaneously, like bad weather ​ ​ conditions.” In your opinion how did apartheid begin and gain power?

DE: I suppose it was not only the whites, but the Afrikaner, who felt vulnerable after our history ​ with the British and they started, it was very similar to what happened when the ANC took over in South Africa as the leading party, the white Afrikaner felt that they had to look after themselves and a result of that, they secured jobs for themselves, they, you only found

Afrikaners in all the state departments, like all the state departments now are black, you don’t get one white person in any state department, well, most of them, so I think that that was the first thing. The way in which they ke themselves in power was not to let black people vote, just as

simple as that. So the National Party was the ruling party of many, many, many years and it was a matter of, I think, protecting themselves.

AP: Could you describe the progression of Apartheid and the effects on society as a whole? ​

DE: We became very isolated. Even our news, more towards when I grew up and later on, I ​ think there was a lot of, you know, they would withhold negative news from coming to the people. Because of the isolation that we found ourselves in, I think a lot of people were just very naive, and you didn't ask any questions, because you can only ask questions when you are aware that there is something else and I think you had to do a lot of research to find out there was something else, something better or something different than what we had. You must remember the world we have is very small, we all know what is going on across the world. In those days you didn't know what was going on. Everything was just much smaller, your world was much smaller, I knew what was happening in Johannesburg, I wasn’t even aware, always of what was going on in the rest of the country, and I think in the rural areas it was even more so, so we were very isolated, and information didn't get through to the people, and as a result of that you didn't question very many things. There were very few white people, and I’m not even talking about

Afrikaners, but very few white people who would openly question what was going on, which was very sad. Looking back I think we were all very, let's call it naive, but it was very stupid because you really didn't know. I see it in the work I do today, you know, if you are in a specific field, and that is your focus, and that is all you know, you're not going to develop, you're not

going to be creative because you never get the opportunity or the desire to think outside of the box.

AP: Was the isolation and the lack of information deliberate in order to remain in power? ​ [11:12]

DE: It was, absolutely. It was a deliberate decision from the National Party. ​

AP: says “It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful ​ ​ ​ protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle." How did this violence impact life in South Africa?

DE: The violence, people became very afraid, I remember when I started working, I’m trying to ​ get my timelines right, that was the beginning of the eighties, and my office was right in the center of Johannesburg, and at one stage there was a bomb going off quite close to our offices, well not one, quite a few, and we would sit in the office and say “there is starts again,” we actually got used to it, to the sound, and you know, thinking back, it was a very scary time, a really scary time. I went to my car one afternoon, my car was parked in a parking area, and it was open on one side, and there were pieces of glass on my car because a bomb exploded right across the street, at a five star hotel. So that was something that, well, it’s amazing how quickly you get, I don't want to say get used to, but you do become insensitive, and you become desensitized. The protests were, most of them took place in Soweto, which is outside of

Johannesburg because they lived in townships, they weren't allowed to live in the white suburbs, so most started there, but we were very aware of that, I was at university in ‘76, I was in my first year, and it was quite a frightening time. Once again what the National Party did was they tried to keep the black people outside of the cities, you know, to keep the white people safe and to keep the environment safe, but yes, it was a very scary time because if you look at the numbers of people, by far the minority of people were white, so we all had this fear in the back of our minds if the black people would really get up and become really violent, we would be gone. We wouldn't be here, just looking at the numbers.

AP: You would say the violence was not only from the apartheid regime, but also from the ​ oppressed black Africans?

DE: Oh, yes. That is when it affected us, when the black people became violent. That affected ​ us you know, we all always heard of incidents of violence that happened in the townships, we lived in a pretty safe space. We were protected. And the police mainly consisted of white people, mostly.

AP: What role did anti-apartheid activism play among the youth? [14:54] ​ ​

DE: Well that’s where it all started, there were also quite a number of white youth who got ​ involved in the violence because they could see that there was something very, very wrong with our system. I went to university with some very radical, liberal white students, and there was,

my boyfriend at the time, had a very good friend, and we used to go out, very often and much later, we found out he was planted there by the police to find out who the liberal students were, and to keep an eye on them. He was a very, very good friend of ours, but he was mingling in our group, I was friends with some very liberal people, and yeah, he was planted there by the intelligence, our police, who put him there to see what was going on. A lot of the very liberal people came from Brets and UCT, and those were the two universities that were quite liberal, and a lot of protests started there as well. Also white people, we had some artists, Afrikaans artists, who did some amazing, writing amazing songs and having concerts, and I still have some vinyls from that time, Beautiful, beautiful music, and we had a lot of theater, about the suppressing of the blacks, and that was in the market theater in Johannesburg, you can ask

Christian, he attended one of Rheede’s plays in the market theatre, and that's where all those plays were performed, in the market theatre. I attended each and every one of them, some wonderful stuff. But that was the platform for also the white people to express their views, their anti-apartheid views. The more liberal people. And a lot of it was very often, you know, the police would go and shut down the theater if they weren't happy with the content of the play or the song, or whatever, it would be banned.

AP: You would say that along with the violent protests, there were also peaceful forms of ​ protests, like music, art, and theater?

DE: Oh, yes. Absolutely. ​

AP: In what ways did the Soweto uprising take a toll on South Africa, and also the apartheid ​ regime?

DE: I think that was the beginning, that was really the beginning of the end of apartheid. From ​ there, it just snowballed, I think that was the beginning, I think a lot of people, also white people, people in the government woke up, and realized that changed, and it's still took thirty, forty years for change to take place, but I think a lot of people, I think really that is where it all started. I was in my first year in ‘76 at university and I remember that very well. A very sad time in our country’s history.

AP: Did the uprising compel other groups to go up in arms and rebel in other places in South ​ Africa?

DE: I think so, yes. A lot of my peers we had a thing, straight after school, the boys had to join ​ our national defense force, the army, for two years. It wasn't a choice, it is what you had to do, you do that, or after university, once you’ve studied, you go for two years. And some of my friend refused to do that, and you would be put into jail if you refused to go to the army, to join the army, they would, a lot of people protested against apartheid.

AP: This picture (shows picture of Hector Pieterson), what does it mean to South Africa, and the ​ apartheid struggle? [19:58] ​

DE: Oh, (begins to cry), yeah, that was the most, even today, (cries), I’m sorry. It’s sad and very ​ embarrassing. It is very sad and very embarrassing. It is really a part of our history that I don’t think anybody is proud of. No matter your views, you cannot be proud of that. Also, you got a lot of violence, black on black, and a lot of it was instigated by the regime, there was, I don’t know if you’ve read about the Boipatong massacre. It happened in one of the hostels in

Boipatong, the miners used to stay in these hostels and they would move away from their homes and come to the mining towns to earn money and they were put in dorms like schoolchildren, grown men, with no dignity whatsoever, and it is naturally a thing, psychologically that would happen there was a lot of violence there. My ex husband was an advocate, and he was an advocate in the Boipatong case. What they found out was, a big thing, that the police, the South

African police force was behind that, they provided the weapons, they sent back people into

Boipatong, to kill off a lot of those miners, and that caused a lot of that, to create this whole view you know, “the black people are savage,” and you know that whole, the white people were afraid of the black people. They felt that by doing things like this, they were behind it.

AP: Were tactics like these used to create fear among the people, in order to remain in power? ​

DE: Absolutely, absolutely because that was the only hope, you know if we have a white ​ government that is the only way they can survive. That is, you know, apart from the fact that they were seen as inferior and unintelligent and incompetent and all of that, you know, they were dangerous savages. That was the image that was created.

AP: How do you think the image of Hector Pieterson brought the global aspect, and brought ​ other counties’ attention to what was going on in South Africa?

DE: Yes, absolutely. I think a lot of our people went into exile, you know, they took the ​ message outside, and that is when South Africa became very, very isolated. We couldn't compete in sport, we couldn't export our goods, we were absolutely isolated, there was just no contact with the outside world. It hurt us economically, and in all different spheres of life.

AP: Steve Biko says “A struggle without casualties is no struggle”. How do you think this ​ ​ violent mentality effected South Africa, both blacks and whites?

DE: I think that if I look at it from the black’s perspective, I think a lot of them thought they had ​ absolutely nothing to loose, which was true because if you look at what life had to offer them in

South Africa, it was really little, and I think they were prepared, not “I think they were prepared,” they were prepared to give their lives for their children, or a better South Africa for their children. That is what made them a very dangerous group, because a person who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous person on the face of the earth because you do not care what you do, you do not care what happens to you, you will do and give whatever it takes and I think that also scared the hell out of the whites because they realized these people, honestly, will do whatever it takes.

AP: Was there no intervention from other countries or the United Nations for the situation in ​ South Africa?

DE: There was, there was a lot, they isolated us, and it affected our economy, it affected ​ everything, there was a lot of things that were done from the outside world to stop it, but I think ultimately it had to happen from inside, and that is what F.W. De Klerk did, and a lot of people say he's not a hero, but in my mind he is the hero, he was the one who did it. As I say to you, it took so many years for us to get to that point, and at the end of the day he’s the man who made that decision, so in my mind he is a hero. But a lot of people say he's not a hero because if he didn't do that, it would have happened just with our blood, but it didn't happen. I still think he is a hero, because it is possible, between him and Nelson Mandela you know, to have this transformation without violence, or with very little violence.

AP: Could you describe a personal encounter that you had either with the apartheid regime or an ​ activist? [27:31] ​

DE: A personal experience, you know, when I was at university, and that would be the ​ movements that I was referring to, and I was friends with a lot of very liberal people and there were many petitions that we would all sign, like the “Free Mandela Petition,” I signed many of those, because we realized it was ridiculous to keep the man in jail, so that is an experience, but experiences, I remember I told you about the bomb exploded, you know that is as close as I came

to experiencing violence, but still we were protected in our environment, and even though that happened. There were still isolated incidents.

AP: How would you compare the townships, like Soweto, to the inner cities? ​

DE: Now or then? ​

AP: Then. ​

DE: There is absolutely no comparison. The inner city was a beautiful, well kept, looked after, ​ things were working, safe, whereas the townships, you’d never spend any time in the townships at that time, because you just wouldn't go into the townships because it was seen as really dangerous. The living conditions there were absolutely appalling, it still is, it still is. I mean, there is absolutely no comparison, I mean a lot of places there didn't have running water, no hot water or electricity, people would work in the city, travel back home to the township. It would take them hours and hours to get home, they get there at eight o’clock, nine o’clock at night, and the women would start cooking. Without electricity. The children would have to do homework by candlelight because there was no electricity. That is if they go to school, they had to get up at five in the morning and walk to school because public transport was nonexistent. There was nothing, Alexa, absolutely nothing, it was overpopulated because those people were all people that came to the city to try and make a living because Johannesberg was where the money was just like all the big cities, Johannesburg is where I grew up.

AP: Wow that’s hard to imagine [30:28] ​ ​

DE: It is really, really, you cannot imagine, They don't have, the shacks that they live, in, still ​ today, would be made out of pieces of building material they they would either steal or pick up from a building site, and they would put it together so that they would have a roof over their heads. There weren’t any homes, or very few.

AP: How did the Bantu Education Act affect youth, and South Africa as a whole at the time it ​ was passed?

DE: Very negatively because the quality of the education was really pathetic, as I said to you, ​ when I worked and did some of the assessments of the people on the lower levels, the laborers and construction industry, I did a lot of work with the construction industry, that’s where I get my experience, and if a person tells you, in those positions, they would seldom have anything above a grade eight qualification, that is first year high school in South Africa. A lot of them would leave after six years of primary school and that would not be six years of primary school as you know it, or as I know it, it would be much lower than that, a lot of those people could barely write their own names, that was the level of education, they still couldn't read or write properly. They would have teachers and when you ask the, “what are your qualifications?”, they would tell you “well, I’ve been through high school,” or “I’ve passed two grades higher than the grade I’m teaching.” They weren't educated people and the teachers weren't educated people,

and as a result of that they had a serious effect on the economy, and you can imagine, that many uneducated people, it was a massive, massive problem. It still is, it still is a serious problem. It is why schools like St. John's have this program, they call it the St. John's Academy, where they go to, and I’m talking about fairly good schools in the inner city of Johannesburg, where they go out and identify, or ask the teachers there to identify the top ten students in a grade and then St.

John's would send their busses out after school and fetch those children from their schools, bring them to the St. John’s campus, and the teachers would teach them English, maths, and science, I think it is those three subjects. They go to school, and in the afternoon they go to St. John’s

College and they would receive their lessons in those three subjects until five or six o’clock in the evenings every day then go back home to the township, or wherever they come from, do their homework and go back to school tommorow, do this whole process again, then they select the top students and offer them a full time scholarship and they become St. John’s students, and some of them are excellent students. Our head boy next year is an academy student, and he's an excellent student, so you get those people, sitting in those schools, and even with our new ANC government, those schools are still now good schools. I have a friend who teaches in Hillbrow, and it is appalling what those schools, what goes on in those schools today, as we sit here. It is so not good and that is why our Matric results is not good. The level of education in government schools is not good. You get a handful of government schools and they are still predominantly white schools. The other schools are improving, I’m not saying they're the same, but improving, but the education is still a serious problem, I think it is the biggest problem in our country.

AP: So you would say that the Bantu Education Act destroyed the whole school system? [35:19] ​ ​

DE: Definitely, and it took many years, they're probably going to lose another generation, ​ education wise before they really get them on par, and competitive.

AP: Historian Susan Rice says “One can't erase the tremendous burden of apartheid in 10 years, ​ ​ 20 years, I believe, even 30 years.” Do you belive effects of Apartheid still prevalent in SA today?

DE: Well, that is a discussion that you need to have with Rheede (laughs), about the racism. It is ​ probably, Alexa. I learn a lot from my boys because we’ve never been exposed to that, we walk around with the mindset or the idea that black people have the same opportunities. In theory, on paper they do have the same opportunities, they actually have more opportunities, because a lot of jobs are exclusively for black people, where our white children can't compete for jobs, so I think the average white person can't see that racism is still a problem, but it is still a serious, serious problem, and it’s a whole mindset, it's almost in the genes, it's almost in the DNA, of black people feeling inferior and white people feeling superior, and the poor education doesn't help, because if you communicate with someone who you have not been exposed to, your first thought is to, it is they’re not on your level, to talk down to them, that is a natural thing people do, and I think that is what is still happening and I think that's what will happen for a very long time. I can tell you from experience, twenty years is, definitely hasn't been enough. I dont think its going to happen in thirty years, I think it will take longer than that.

AP: Is there still seperation? You talked a little bit about the townships, outside of the city, that ​ are very rundown. Would you say that there is still a lot of informal separation?

DE: Definitely, definitely and it's also got to do with, because people are uneducated or poorly ​ educated, they cannot get decent jobs, or they cannot get jobs at all. They work, if you don't have the money, you don't live in a decent house. So what do you do? You stay in the township and live in a shack. Yes, there is most definitely still seperation, like the school systems we’ve discussed, the school that my friend teaches at, it’s a black school, there are no white students in

Hillbrow, it’s in Hillbrow, I don’t know if you know where that is, do you know Hillbrow?

AP: No. ​

DE: Hillbrow, it is a very hip area when I was young. We used to, students used to hang out in ​ Hillbrow, it was wonderful and then it became very run down, it’s right next to the inner city,

Hillbrow, and it’s neighboring areas. Today you don't set foot in Hillbrow, a lot of Nigerians moved into Hillbrow, there's a lot of drugs, a lot of druglords, very run down, very dangerous, and that school is in the middle of Hillbrow and my friend is a teacher there, and as I said it’s a black school. There are only black children in that school.

AP: Is that a rule? ​

DE: No, it’s not a rule, it’s a spontaneous thing, as a white person you would do anything not to ​ put your child in that school and there aren't very many white people living in that area, like there aren't many white people living in the townships, there are now, white people living in the shacks, in informal settlements because they’re very poor, they do not have money, but you will not easily find white people in those areas. There are very, very affluent areas in Johannesburg, they are mostly white areas. There are black people, because we have some very wealthy black people in Johannesburg, but they're still by far the minority in the white areas, I’m not talking about the whole country, I’m talking about the very affluent areas. They're still mostly white areas.

AP: What do you think it would take to break this separation and restore racial unity in South ​ Africa? [40:37] ​

DE: (laughs), Many, many years. A drastic change in the education system, because education, I ​ think is the main problem for poverty in our country, and I think then you will get a more normalized society, I think education is the biggest problem. Education which then also results in poverty. Most crime and violence is a result of the poverty in this country.

AP: Author Al Sharpton says “I was there during the first election of South Africa. I watched ​ them take down the apartheid flag and raise the new flag.” When apartheid ended and Nelson

Mandela was elected president, how did people react?

DE: Oh, it was, South Africa was like paradise, it was absolutely amazing. I think that was the ​ one time when all South Africans really united. We were really one nation. I will never forget.

My dad, he’s -- I said that in the beginning of our conversation -- a very conservative, traditional,

Afrikaner. And my dad sat and watched Nelson Mandela’s inauguration, and tears tan down his face, in a happy way. That was a very, very happy moment in our history. I think a lot of people were still afraid, because of the stereotyping and the view that especially in the more conservative and rural areas, and because of the view, the general view that they had and have about black people, but in the city, most definitely it was a wonderful time. A wonderful time.

AP: Were there people who resented the ending of apartheid or wanted the apartheid regime to ​ remain in power?

DE: I think so, yes. That was the people, mostly the people who were insecure about their, first ​ of all what they had, because maybe in the back of their minds their realized that the life that they had wasn't because they earned it, it was because their privilege having a white skin, being part of the minority group that ruled the country. There were very insecure people.

AP: What steps were taken to unite South Africa after apartheid, and do you believe they were ​ effective?

DE: I think Nelson Mandela did a lot, and he tried to do it among sport, which was very ​ effective, he hosted World Cup Rugby in ninety four, or ninety six, I can't remember now, I think

it was ninety four, we had the World Cup Rugby in South Africa and he played such a big role then and that was amazing, he really used sport very effectively. Somewhere along the line, things just, we have very poor leadership in the county right now so things just went backwards,

I think. I think there's a lot of racism at the moment again. I think it was better fifteen years ago

I think it's worse now, but yeah they took some very effective, definitive steps in trying to, apart from the laws that changed, because I think it takes a lot more than that

[Rheede interrupts]

AP: During Mandela’s presidency, how do you think he changed the minds of those who were ​ pro-apartheid? [46:45] ​

DE: I think the way in which he handled his own circumstances, for me, as an individual, is ​ mind blowing because I would not have gone through what he went through and be the person, on the other side. I would be very bitter, he was never ever bitter. He came out being the most positive human being, he reached out specifically to the white Afrikaner, he employed a, I think she was a twenty five year old Afrikaner girl to be his PA. And she remained his personal assistant until the day he passed away. Even after he retired, he really tried very hard to reach out to the Afrikaner, he went to Henrik Verwoerd, who was seen as the architect of apartheid, his wife lived in Orania. Orania was a little town formed by conservative Afrikaners, and you could only live there if you're a white Afrikaner, there are no black people in that little town, they are self sufficient, they work and live there, they go to school, they do everything there, and she

lived there. One of his first appointments was with Betsie Verwoerd, Doctor Verwoerd's widow, and he went to see her. He did things like that, he really did everything in his power to reach out specifically to the white Afrikaner, and because he’s such as, he has a lot of charisma, I think it's a result of the that he won over a lot of people, even my dad, he would never vote for the ANC, except for Nelson Mandela, he would rather not vote. Because they were seen as a bunch of terrorists and savages, that is the picture that we got. And Nelson Mandela changed all of that.

AP: Wow, that’s amazing. How do you think memorials, such as the Hector Pieterson ​ memorial, affect the country, and try and prevent apartheid from happening again?

DE: I think that is extremely important because even if it's just to be there as a reminder of that ​ very sad part of our history, because it is very easy to fall back into your routine and your little life and just carry on as if nothing has happened, but I think those symbols are very necessary to remind us all, not only the black people who gave their lives, the white people who gave their lives to get rid of apartheid, I think it is very necessary to be reminded of children like Hector

Pieterson, and there are many more like him, many more. I think he was just the name because of that one photograph.

AP: Thank you so much, I’ve learned a lot. ​

DE: It’s been a great pleasure ​

Analysis

Ignorance is often the source of great conflict. Ignoring what is around you, or even

worse, what came before you, will only prolong injustice, and inhibit progression. Author

Jonathan R. Miller attributes this inhibition to the lack of knowledge of history by saying, “You

are not responsible for the past, but insofar as you do nothing, you are complicit in the present

created by it.”44 Jonathan Miller is describing behavior that ignores history and consequently

repeats its devastating mistakes. When looking back at history, it is often difficult to realize how

atrocities such as apartheid are permitted to happen. The reason for these atrocities is often

perpetuated ignorance. History can often feel fictitious or distant, and this is why oral history is

so important. Oral history focuses on not only the big picture of events that took place, but how

those real events impacted real people. A distinguishing aspect of oral history is that accounts

may differ, while all being factual. Oral history offers an unmanufactured alternative and a

unique perspective, which is difficult to obtain through more distant sources. Mrs. Erasmus

agreed with many historians who opposed apartheid, but she herself was an active participant in

the opposition, and could provide more insight. Unlike various sources however, Mrs. Erasmus

believes that violent opposition was inapt, and should not be praised by textbooks or other

sources.

When interviewing Mrs. Erasmus, it became clear that she was quite knowledgeable of

apartheid, and had quite a few interesting encounters with it. She early on acknowledged that

apartheid, such a radical movement, was founded on fear. She described the start of apartheid by

44 Miller, Jonathan R. "Quotes About History Repeating Itself (52 Quotes)." (52 Quotes). Goodreads ​ ​ ​ Inc, 2017. Web. 21 Jan. 2017.

saying, “I suppose it was not only the whites, but the Afrikaner (descendant of a Dutch immigrant), who felt vulnerable after our history with the British.”45 Mrs. Erasmus then elaborated on how fear fueled apartheid, allowing the Afrikaner population to feel vulnerable and at-risk, as the African National Congress gained power. She described how the whites turned this vulnerability and insecurity into anger and oppression towards blacks, in fear that blacks would soon dominate South Africa. When asked how apartheid perpetrated, Mrs. Erasmus responded by saying, “we were very isolated, and information didn't get through to the people, and as a result of that you didn't question very many things.”46 When looking back, Mrs.

Erasmus questioned how she allowed herself to become so naive to her surroundings for such a long time. She then recounts the widespread violence, by saying “my office was right in the center of Johannesburg, and at one stage there was a bomb going off quite close to our offices; well not one, quite a few.”47 Mrs. Erasmus described her mixed feelings of fear, and numbness, because the violence was becoming a part of her daily routine. Later in the interview, Mrs.

Erasmus became extremely emotional when shown the picture of Hector Pieterson’s dead body being carried out of the Soweto massacre. After tears and a moment of silence, she somberly said “it’s sad and very embarrassing.”48 Mrs. Erasmus struggle to understand how anyone, regardless of their political views, could support violence against children. As a social worker,

Mrs. Erasmus encountered people with a wide array of education. She describes the Bantu education system for blacks by saying, “the quality of the education was really pathetic.”49 She ​ also attributes many of South Africa’s current problems to the “pathetic” education system, and

45 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 22. ​ 46 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 23. ​ 47 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 24 ​ 48 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 28 ​ 49 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 32 ​

the minimal changes being made to it. To conclude the interview, Mrs. Erasmus spoke about the

day Nelson Mandela was elected president. She described the overwhelming joy by saying “my ​ dad sat and watched Nelson Mandela’s inauguration, and tears ran down his face in a happy

way.”50 Mrs. Erasmus believes it is necessary to keep the story of apartheid known today, so that

it will never be repeated.

Interestingly, even the most well informed historian may have an opinion that differs

completely from that of an eye witness of a certain historical event. For instance, historian Susan

Rice describes the long-term effects of apartheid by saying “One can't erase the tremendous ​ ​ burden of apartheid in 10 years, 20 years, I believe, even 30 years.”51 Mrs. Erasmus agrees

partially with this statement, but believes it does not begin to grasp the rebuilding needed to

erase the impact of apartheid, which is still greatly visible in South Africa today. She begins to

address Rice’s statement by describing today’s racism in South Africa, saying, “it is still a

serious, serious problem, and it’s a whole mindset, it's almost in the genes, it's almost in the

DNA.”52 By this, Mrs. Erasmus is describing how deeply apartheid was, and remains to this day

ingrained in South Africa. She is saying, on account of what she continues to witness, that a

long term effect of apartheid is prevalent racism, and although much time has passed, it is still as

rampant as ever. This differs from historian Rice’s statement, because she focused on the

passage of time. Mrs. Erasmus, in contrast, believes that racism has almost become as embedded

in people as their DNA, and more than time will be required to relieve South Africa of the

burden left by apartheid. Mrs. Erasmus closes her statement by saying “I dont think its going to

50 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 37 ​ 51 Rice, Susan. "Susan Rice Quotes." BrainyQuote. Xplore, 2001. Web. 22 Jan. 2017. ​ ​ ​ 52 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 34 ​

happen in thirty years, I think it will take longer than that,”53 which somberly contradicts Rice’s

hopeful statement.

When learning about an event through oral history, it is quite possible that the speaker

will provide details and emotions that are left out of history books, or deemed irrelevant.

However, these details are often both intriguing and crucial to understand the full effect of an

event. An example of how the emotions expressed about an event can enrich the understanding

of a student, would be the election of Nelson Mandela, signified an end to apartheid. Reverend

Al Sharpton says “I was there during the first election of South Africa. I watched them take

down the apartheid flag and raise the new flag.”54 While his statement is historically reliable, it

does not go into any detail about how South Africa reacted when the apartheid regime fell out of

power, and Nelson Mandela was elected president. Mrs. Erasmus described this day in detail as

one of the most joyous days South Africa has seen. She began by saying “South Africa was like

paradise, it was absolutely amazing.”55 She became elated when describing the events of the

day, and proudly considered it a time of utmost unity for South Africa. Mrs. Erasmus became

quite emotional when describing her family’s reaction, and saying, “my dad sat and watched

Nelson Mandela’s inauguration, and tears ran down his face, in a happy way.”56 While this

historically reinforces Al Sharpton’s statement, Mrs. Erasmus gave a move vibrant and

interesting account of Mandela’s inauguration. This can be done most effectively through oral

history, rather than a textbook, because there is more opportunity for expression.

53 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 34. ​ 54Sharpton, Al. "Al Sharpton." Iz Quotes. Iz Quotes, 2017. Web. 22 Jan. 2017. ​ ​ 55 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 37 ​ 56 Erasmus, Dalene. "Oral History Project." Online interview. 7 Jan. 2017. Pg. 37 ​

Through the process of the Oral History Project, I feel that I have gained perspective on how history, even though we often categorize it as the past, is being made all around us today.

Because I chose a more recent event, I was able to go more in depth with my interviewee about how the effects of the event, apartheid, are still rampant in South Africa today. Although textbooks serve their purpose in educating students about history, the Oral History Project has taught me that there is more to the story than what is on paper. While doing research for my context paper, I found many intriguing facts and recollections in textbooks that I read, and used as sources. For every one of these intriguing recollections or facts, my interviewee was able to ​ add emotion to these facts, or on occasion, disagree with them. Through this process, I was able to realize that history is not a compilation of isolated events of the past, but rather a never ending cycle of patterns and culture.

Appendix A

This image depicts the Soweto Township during apartheid.

Appendix B

This is an image which shows a Free Mandela Petition, a popular form of protest.

Appendix C

This is a modern day photograph of the Hector Pieterson Memorial which is located in

Johannesburg, South Africa.

Appendix D

This image portrays an anti-apartheid demonstration being lead by members of the African

National Congress (ANC)

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