Aden Amin Awil Family Narrators
Mary Murphy-Gnatz and Nora Murphy Interviewer
August 14, 1998
Aden Amin Awil - AAA Safia Abdullahi - SA Mohamed Amin - MoA Ahmed Amin - AA Mahamoud Amin - MaA Project Mona Amin - MA Filsan Amin - FA Amin Amin - AmA Mary Murphy-Gnatz - MM Nora Murphy - NM History Society
MM: The Minnesota Historical Society is honoredOral to interview Aden Amin Awil and his family, including his wife Mrs. Safia Abdullahi, and his son Mohamet Amin, in Minneapolis, and his son Mahamoud Amin. It is Friday, August 14, 1998. The information Mr. Awil’s family will provide in this interview will be used to write a short biography about Mahamoud and Mohamet and the family’s journey from Somalia to Minnesota, for an educational curriculum for fourth graders on the history of Africans andPlaces African-AmericansHistorical in Minnesota. Mr. Awil and his family arrived in Minnesota at the end of 1996. We are pleased that they are willing to share the story of their historic journey with the Minnesota Historical Society for the benefit of students in Minnesota.
The first questions are for Mr. Awil and Mrs. Abdullahi. What were your impressions of Minnesota when Gatheringyou arrived here at the end of 1996? Minnesota AAA: Minnesota is, as you know, a state in the North. At the beginning, my plan was to go to the South whereOur it’s warmer, but I changed my mind. Some of my friends were here and I came here with the help of God. When I came here, to Minneapolis. It’s a great city. It’s economically and historically a well-known city. My first impressions were really that we, me and my six kids and my wife, were welcomed by the community and my friends here, and we were fairly comfortable. We got most of the things we wanted. The first was security. Again, we were supported and had a house, and could feed the kids and, then, the kids had a chance to go to school. Now, being here was very helpful to us. We could stay here and build a new future and I think my wife will add whatever her first impressions were. [speaks in Somali to his wife]
1 SA: [speaks in Somali] It was very difficult at the beginning.
AAA: She says, “At the beginning, it was difficult to get visas and air tickets to come over here.” My first impression was that it was difficult for her because of the environment.
MM: Do you mean the weather?
AAA: The weather was, of course, one factor, but it was not a crucial one. In Somalia ladies could move about, could buy things in shops, talk to people who speak the same language, would know about places, but the contacts, the language, and the life that she got used to was not here. She has much more to do than me as a mother. Dad can run around to earn. I think the first impact falls on the mother, because she has to find and cook what the kids can eat, dress them well for school and keep them clean and safe in a new environment. Project MM: Was it easy or difficult to register your children for school?
AAA: It was easy. In fact, we registered them for school at the homeless shelter. We were in the shelter for one month. It was in October 1996. We did most of the things that we could get done in the shelter. The shelter people helped us. We did not moveHistory about a lot to do school registration, health screening and immunization. Society
MM: Is this your first home here? Oral
AAA: This was my first—I’m still here.
SA: [speaks in Somali] PlacesHistorical AAA: We had our minor problems. It’s very expensive to start with, $800 a month for this place. It’s almost half of what I earn, but I cannot take my kids to another place. They have the space. I want to keep them healthy, but we hope to move out of here to a new house in the neighborhood.
SA: Seven hundred and fifty. Gathering AAA: Plus electricity bill.Minnesota [speaks in Somali]
MM: WouldOur you give us a little background on your family in Somalia before the war?
AAA: Before the war, I had four kids to start with. In Somalia, we were doing fine. I was in government service for almost twenty-seven years. I was a technocrat, not a politician. I never liked politics. When things fell to pieces, I was the in ministry of finance as a director general in the budget section of the ministry of finance. Before that, I was the chairman of a cement plant in Berbera and before that, I was a chairman of a meat canning plant. I was in industrial management most of the time. But, in the last eight months, I was transferred to the ministry of finance to work as a budget man. We were doing fine. We had houses. I was [unclear] some real 2 estate at the same time. I used to buy land and [unclear] houses. [speaks in Somali] We owned houses, cars, whatever people have around there. I never used to bother about that. What I had was a little bit of schooling. I wanted to send them abroad to go to school.
MM: Where did you live in Somalia?
AAA: Mogadishu.
MM: Right in the city?
SA: The city, yes.
AAA: We lived in Mogadishu. I came back from England in August 1963 after five years of schooling. I studied for a special degree in social sciences, majoring in Economics.Project When I graduated, I came back to the north, to the former British Somaliland. I had to go to Mogadishu to get a job. From 1963 to 1991, I was working in Mogadishu. But this cement project that I was in charge of, which was, of course, built by some French people was a sort of tank thing. They were running the show. I was only keeping them safe from those other people. It was in the north, in the north, when I say, near Arabia—the Gulf of Aden. MogadishuHistory is on the Indian Ocean, but I worked in other regions in the Republic in the north at Berbera PortSociety cement plant and the South at Kismayo meat canning plant. I used to travel a lot in Somalia. Oral MM: How did you travel?
AAA: By air or sometimes by road.
MM: By car? PlacesHistorical
AAA: Land rover.
MM: Land rover.
AAA: We slept oneGathering night in a hotel, we’d go about 2000 kilometers. One night I would spend on the road. When there was noMinnesota plane I used to go by road. [His wife speaks to him in Somali and he answers.] But it was a good road, she says. Our MM: Did you ever go by sea?
AAA: By sea, no. It’s a long route!
MM: [Laughter] A long route.
AAA: Ships carrying heavy [fuel] oil (Magut) for my cement plant Mogadishu to Berbera where the cement plant was built. It was a long journey round Cape Guardafui in the Horn of Africa. 3
MM: How long did that take by sea?
AAA: By sea, almost one and a half day from Mogadishu Refinery to Berbera fuel storage depot.
MM: Tell us about your house. What was your house like in Mogadishu?
AAA: I had two families, elder wife in Mogadishu and the younger wife in the North in Hargeisa, ex-British Somaliland capitol. Hargeisa was the capitol in the north and Mogadishu was ex-Italian/Somaliland capitol. My elder wife died—God bless her—in 1993 in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa.
MM: Oh, I’m sorry. Project AAA: She had a daughter and who is now in Holland. My present family was living in the north of Somalia for some time and, then, they joined my other family in Mogadishu. My two families were living in two Villas in different areas in Mogadishu City. I owned some other property in the city. It was not like this. History MM: Much more room? Society
AAA: The houses were well furnished, but sometimesOral there was shortage of electricity and water. But, life was easy. I could read. I could relax. I could sometimes go swimming on the beach.
MM: You were close to the beach? PlacesHistorical AAA: Yes, close to the beach and near the airport. It was a good residential area.
MM: Do you have any photographs of your home in Mogadishu?
AAA: We left a lot of things behind. I doubt if we took any photographs of our properties. I did manage to run awayGathering with my legal ownership of properties. Minnesota MM: Someday, we’d like to see some of your photographs if you would share them with us. Our AAA: If we have the chance. We just stored them somewhere. These things don’t matter now. Now, we’ll have to start a new life in the United States of America.
MM: Start over.
AAA: I’m not a young man and it’s not easy to start a new life. It is an uphill task. I was surprised. I got the transcript of my degree [from when I graduated] thirty-five years ago. I sent a handwritten note from here to my university. 4
MM: In London?
AAA: No, in Leicester. It is in the east Midlands. I read social sciences and I majored in economics. They sent me the transcript and I was most grateful to them.
MM: That’s wonderful.
AAA: That was good.
MM: Where do you work now?
AAA: Now, I work in one of the Minneapolis Public schools as a bilingual Program Assistant. Project MM: Great.
AAA: In a K-5 school, and facilitate communication by interpreting and translation. I work on family involvement programs and I give tutorial classes. History MM: There must be a great need for that now and growing. Society
AAA: I am sure I can get a better job when I get a teachingOral license and take training on computer work. I need to be computer literate.
MM: But, it’s a big service you’re doing. Historical AAA: It’s a job, which I can do withoutPlaces too much stress. In America, if you are not computer literate, you can’t get a well-paid job. Over there, in Somalia, there was no need for me to do computer work. I could understand what the secretaries put out. It is incredible how fast the modern technology is changing the world. In 1957, I took a propeller-driven plane to Europe, jets were not commercial, and the telephone was on a line (no micro-wave).
MM: Jets were justGathering military?Minnesota
[Laughter] Our AAA: Yes. Things have changed beyond my belief, especially in the U.S.
MM: Where did your children go to school in Somalia?
AAA: In Somalia, they have not been to any school.
MM: No school?
5 AAA: Mohamed was five and Ahmed was four years old.
MM: So, they were too young for school?
AAA: They used to go to Islamic school. But, when we left Mogadishu, we stayed in my town, Boorama, for two years—then they became six and seven, they used to go to Islamic school and later I took them to Ethiopia. Education had no quality because socialism, by that time, destroyed our education. Socialism in Ethiopia also had the same effect. Teachers were not paid or not well paid. Schools were not well maintained. There were a lot of problems in schooling in Ethiopia.
MM: What are Quranic schools? What did they teach?
AAA: Go on boy, its your turn. [speaks in Somali] Project MoA: Arabic.
MM: Tell us about some of the events, religious and social events, cultural events that took place in Somalia during the times before the change. History AAA: The Somali people are almost 100 percent Moslem. They areSociety an Islamic nation. The Somalis could be divided into different strata of population. You have the nomadic people where you have almost 65 percent to 70 percent of the totalOral population moving with animals from place to place looking for water and pasture. These are the people who are retaining the true Somali traditions. You also have the sedentary, rural type of life where they do farming. They grow crops by irrigation or by dry farming. Then, you have the urban population, all over the coast and in the larger cities. The Somalis were split up into different areas of occupation during the colonial period: Italian Somalia, British Somalia,Places FrenchHistorical Somalia, and then you have the Ethiopian part and then you have the Kenya part, northern frontier district, which is almost one-third of Kenya. The Horn of Africa is inhabited by Somalis. Now, these people, most of them are well-versed in Arabic. They speak Arabic. Their commercial work is done in Arabic, but still, you have this input: British law, Italian law, French law, and the foreign language. All these brought some sort of confusion. I would say broke down this traditional life among the Somalis. You have the civil law, for example:Gathering administration, courts, politics. These were all different. British politics was different from Italian politics.Minnesota French politics was different. Then, you have the Islamic law, the shari’a. The local, traditional heer of the Somali nation as a whole. Our MM: Are heer and shari’a basically religious laws?
AAA: No, heer is Somali. Shari’a is Islam, based on the Quran. Then, you have the civil law: Italian, British, French, and probably Ethiopian. Many Somalis speak different languages. Most of the Somalis speak three languages: the mother’s tongue, one foreign language, and then Arabic, and probably Amharic or Swahili because they live in Ethiopia or Kenya.
6 You could say to have a good picture of the Somali traditional life, their way of life and the culture, one needs to look at the nomadic people because other people are influenced by all these cultures of these occupying nations. Of course, you can have intellectuals coming out of these and studying the Somali life and culture, Islamic religion and these are the people who are really the more enlightened.
One of the reasons why Somalia fell into anarchy is because most of the urban populations did not leave the tribal life they had. The political leaders and the educated elite in the cities did not leave behind tribalism and regionalism. Then, you have a lot of conflicting forces in the minds of some of the leaders, some of the religious people, some of the people who were supposed to be the most enlightened who could remedy things. When the armed forces overthrew the civilian government in 1969, it got even worse, because people were not safe. Everybody was afraid and when the whole system collapsed, you had warlords. Whoever had more guns said, “I’m the boss here.” Then, those who had no guns had to run away. If I go back to MogadishuProject now, I could have a small boy with a gun making a living, but people like me, who worked twenty-five years can’t make a living. I cannot survive in that environment. I cannot fit in.
In short, life in Somalia could have been like any other prosperous African country, but when we experienced almost twenty years of military rule where mostHistory of the peoples were split up into tribes, and tribalism could be manipulated to rule, when you bringSociety tribe against tribes our social fiber disintegrated into anarchy. This is the background of the collapse of our national central government. Now, we don’t know how to put thingsOral back together.
The Somalis, historically, were people of relative intelligence, people who were proud of their generosity and valor and chivalry, people who had a long history. The Egyptians used to call it the land of Punt, where they get myrrh and frankincense. Some of the later writers in the eighteenth and nineteenth century usedPlaces to talk aboutHistorical African people of mixed blood. Writers like I. M. Lewis, came to us in the early 1950s to study Somali. Some writers used to talk about a nation of poets, warriors, and mullahs. Samed Mohamed Abdul Hassan, “the Mad Mullah” is in history. He was fighting the British for almost twenty years.
MM: What is a mullah? Gathering AAA: A mullah is a sheik,Minnesota a senior religious man, spreading Islam and traveling to the Arabian Peninsula. Some people used to go on the hajj and come back to educate the people and be sheiks. Our
MM: Was there a lot of travel between Saudi Arabia and Somalia because it was so close?
AAA: Yes, there was. In fact, it got closer when the British took British Somaliland to secure food supplies to Aden. Aden was important after the opening of the Suez Canal.
MM: Yes, and the continent was divided.
7 AAA: Yes. In 1884 the International Conference as held in Berlin and what is called “The Scramble for Africa,” the so-called Dark Continent was carved to colonial possessions...
MM: And Ethiopia?
AAA: Ethiopia was under the influence of Italy, but remained independent. Then, Mussolini came and took Ethiopia in 1935.
MM: Is that right?
AAA: That is the year I was born.
MM: What year were you born? Project AAA: In 1934. I’m not a young man.
MM: Okay. Did many Somalis emigrate to Saudi Arabia when the trouble started?
AAA: When petroleum was struck and exploited, many workersHistory emigrated to Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries. Society
MM: Were there any special holidays that you celebratedOral as a family?
AAA: In Somalia?
MM: Yes. Historical Places AAA: Of course, the normal ones, you might have heard, of these since there are many Somalis here. We have the Eids: Ramadan, Eid ul-fitr and, then, we have Eid ul-adha, during the Hajj time.
MM: What is that? GatheringMinnesota AAA: When Moslems go on the hajj, and during the time those who can afford it slaughter sheep. Then, we have the birth of our Prophet “Mohammed.” Our MM: The birth of Mohammed?
AAA: Yes. These are the main religious celebrated holidays. On top of these, of course, we had our national holidays: Independence Day and others.
MM: How did you celebrate these holidays? What did you do?
[Tape interruption] 8
MM: What kind of activities did you have to celebrate these holidays?
AAA: As a family or as a nation in the capitol?
MM: A little of both. [Laughter]
AAA: At the end of Ramadan, members of a family, especially children, get well dressed and go to the Morning Prayers, visit friends and then relax and ask God’s forgiveness by reading the Quran. People are happy and some dance wearing national dresses.
MM: Do you have big feasts?
AAA: We eat and we invite friends. We have food together for one day. InProject Somalia, we used to have what they called malanjo. It means staying a day with a family. It was a happy day. Then, in the evening, families go around to see the people who are dancing in the streets or parks.
MM: Everyone dances? History AAA: The people dance in the streets and sing old songs of our flagSociety and historical events. We made visits. Oral MM: What kind of food did you eat on the special days?
AAA: First, you slaughter a sheep and, then, you have all types of fried meat. We don’t have barbecue, but the ladies make 1001 dishes dependingHistorical on the region you come from. [Laughter] They cook rice in so many different ways.Places They cook meat in so many different ways. They cook all the local fruits and vegetables.
MM: What kind of fruit, for example, in your area?
AAA: The things I will never forget: papaya, grapefruit, mangoes, watermelons, grapes, and many others locallyGathering grown. Minnesota MM: Not like here. [Laughter] Did you eat a lot of fish? Our SA: Fish, yes.
AAA: In Mogadishu, eating fish was seasonal, because the sea is rough some of the time.
MM: Just caught out of the ocean, right?
AAA: Yes—it was fresh fish—there is no refrigeration to preserve fish.
9 MM: What kind of vegetables?
AAA: Wild [go-ho], carrots, spinach . . . What do you call it in English?
SA: Mango?
AAA: That’s fruit. Mango is a fruit. Cabbage, lettuce, carrots, spinaches, salads and onions, etc.
SA: Salads, onions.
AAA: They all grew locally. Only potatoes were brought from Ethiopia. It was coming from the city where we were now, the one before we left, Harer. They grow potatoes in the valleys and sugar cane. Project SA: Ethiopia is good.
AAA: Ethiopia is . . . ohhh! God gave them everything.
MM: Is that right? History Society AAA: God gave them everything. It’s the high land, 6,000 feet and you have mists and rain all the time. It’s all green—but we cannot work. The EthiopiaOral rule was not good. Really, they are not as sharp as some of the Somalis. The Somalis, if they want to spoil something, they spoil it. If they want to do it better, they do it! They are more open and more lighthearted. In history, they used to call—they may be hot-tempered—them the Irishmen of [unclear] or something like that— Historical Places NM: The Somalis . . . oh.
[Laughter]
MM: She’s Irish. GatheringMinnesota AAA: . . . because they are hot-tempered. When was in England, I always go to Manchester and places like that and I used to see a lot of Irish. We were friends! Ohhh! We don’t like the Queen. Ah! Uhhh!Our
[Laughter]
AAA: When they drink, they were happy. Ohhh!
[Laughter]
10 AAA: We used to like our friends in my university, some of the people coming from Ireland. I never went there, but some of my friends were in Dublin, the Queen’s college [Trinity College].
MM: From Somalia?
AAA: From Somalia. I think now they are in Canada.
MM: Can you tell us briefly why your family left Somalia?
AAA: [softly] Oooooh. To be brief is difficult in this area. I left, basically, because there was no security. We had something to eat, true, but when you cannot sleep in peace and you still don’t know who your enemy is, it’s very difficult.
MM: You felt you were in danger, all the time? Project
AAA: In danger. There was anarchy and tribal feuds spread in the country. There was looting everywhere in the cities. We did not have services, education, health, communication, infrastructure of any kind. We could not go to an office to get the documents. Everything is destroyed. To be honest with you, it was not a place for my family.History That’s the main reason I left there. Society
MM: Will you describe your family’s journey fromOral Somalia to Minnesota? I know you made other stops in between.
AAA: Yes. At the beginning, we left Mogadishu in April 1991 by bus all the way to a town called Jijiga in Ethiopia. PlacesHistorical MM: Called what?
AAA: Jijiga in Ethiopia. [speaks in Somali] It’s almost 1,500 kilometers from Mogadishu.
SA: Twenty days. GatheringMinnesota AAA: We were on the route almost, almost fourteen days.
MM: Oh,Our my.
AAA: When we went out of Mogadishu, we were very lucky because we took small buses. Nobody thought we were refugees, but the people in the big trucks were stopped, harassed and looted. Some people really suffered on the route because they were so many roadblocks and weapons all along the route within Somalia. When you traveled in those days on a small bus, they were not as harsh.
MM: We’ll have to include a map with this story. 11
NM: Yes, we need a map.
AAA: I’ll describe where Jijiga is. For example, you go from Mogadishu here, on the map, and we went into Ethiopia here. This area is inhabited by Somalis. We went to Jijiga up here. My region is just northwest of Somalia.
MM: That’s where you were?
AAA: It’s a town called Boorama in the region I came from.
MM: That’s where you were born?
AAA: I was born there. It took us fourteen days because we were stoppingProject on the way. We were lucky to get into Ethiopia because some people gave us help. We were in small buses. We joined a convoy of forty trucks. We had some Ethiopian military helping us because people were being looted on the road, and trucks, vehicles, were being taken away. So many people I knew died on the route getting out of Somalia. It was 350 kilometers from Mogadishu getting out of Somalia. When we got to Ethiopia, we rested at a military camp. ThereHistory they asked for some soldiers to take us to the next town from [Fer-fer] to [Shelabo]. From Shelabo,Society another army convoy took us to Kebri Dehar, the headquarters of Ethiopian garrison. From there, they gave us Somali elders as guides. Somali men, who know the area. They wouldOral put them on the first truck and the whole convoy of fifty trucks will follow. When you are known in that area, they cannot kill you or some of their people will be killed. It’s a reciprocal arrangement. We were sent into Ethiopian territory for security after making a long detour of 1500 kilometers to reach Jijiga town in Ethiopia. From there I hired a truck to take me back to northwest Somalia—the town of Boorama where I was born. PlacesHistorical
MM: A Toyota truck.
AAA: A Toyota truck.
NM: Did your wifeGathering and children stay in Ethiopia then? Minnesota AAA: No. [speaks in Somali] Our I had to hire a small Toyota to take the whole family down to my town—Boorama in Somalia.
MM: In northern Somalia?
AAA: In northwestern Somalia. Over there, I was safe. Some people will know me when I say my name, and we were not afraid. I have two strong boys who could keep the kids. Then, I took my wife and children on the front seat and I had to ride on the back of the truck with the few
12 things we had. Then, I went to my house. It was difficult at the beginning. There was no water, no electricity at that time or we had electricity only for a few hours. We settled down.
MM: How long did you stay there?
AAA: Almost two and a half years.
SA: Three years.
AAA: Three years. We moved to Harer in Ethiopia and stayed in Harer another three years.
MM: Harer is in Ethiopia?
AAA: In Ethiopia. It’s about one day’s travel from my town, Boorama, in ProjectSomalia. It’s an old, walled, Islamic city and it is well known in the horn of Africa.
MM: Then, where did you go from Harer?
AAA: I had to move out of my town to Ethiopia, not becauseHistory I wasn’t secure, but I wanted my kids to go to some sort of school and also to get electricity and water,Society very important. Now, we stopped there for almost three years and, then, I got this lottery. One of my friends in America— he’s in the South now . . . Oral
SA: [unclear].
AAA: Of course, life was . . . We have so manyHistorical people, nationalities, coming together, she says, and the kids were really confused. Places
SA: They were confused, yes.
MM: At the languages. But, they did go to school there?
AAA: Yes, they Gatheringdid, althoughMinnesota they had a rough time. They were fighting between Ethiopians, Americans . . .
SA: [unclear].Our Yes.
AAA: She was running after them all day. I was protecting them all day.
MM: Tell me a little about their school.
AAA: The school was sort of a private school, not the government. [speaks in Somali] It was a private school, which was run on the donations of the Moslems. Now, this school had a sheik in charge. Then, we had volunteer teachers. 13
MM: From where?
AAA: From Harer. It’s an Islamic, old world city. They were competing with the government schools, which were poorer in quality. They were more disciplined and they were more strict. It was a cleaner atmosphere. I put the three boys in. The small one was just going with them. There are Hareris, local people. I think they are descendants of either [Boh-teh-fees] or Iran or somewhere. Harer is populated by people from Asia.
SA: [unclear]
AAA: Oromo is some of the local people. You have Amhara. You have Hareris. You have Tigray . . . the people who are ruling Ethiopia now. The population of these people were putting their kids in there. One day, my kids have a fight with Amhara, Ethiopians,Project Oromo, Hareris . . . ohhh! It was not easy for the poor fellows.
MM: What was the fight about?
AAA: They were bullying. They thought they were well-offHistory or something like that. All these children, they fight on so many things: on a pencil, or a book, or onSociety a chair.
SA: [unclear] Oral
AAA: Everyday, they take a new pencil or a new book. It was an experience.
SA: In Ethiopia, it’s very hard. PlacesHistorical MM: What were they studying?
AAA: First of all, they were studying some English, some Arabic, then, the Islamic shari’a, then, Amharic, [Frah-ev-bee-cee], Oromo.
MM: Do they rememberGathering any of it? Minnesota AAA: They can speak to you in Amharic now. Our MM: Good.
SA: Write.
MM: What was your stop in Ethiopia . . . Harer?
14 AAA: Harer, we stayed there for almost three years and, then, I got this lottery visa. I had to move to Addis Ababa, the capitol of Ethiopia. It was a tedious job. This lottery is very difficult. It took us almost one year to get the visa.
MM: What was the lottery? To go where?
AAA: To come to the U.S.
MM: To the United States?
AAA: Yes! Diversity Visa.
MM: Ah! You got the lottery! My goodness! Project AAA: I got the lottery.
MM: What luck!
SA: [unclear], yes. History Society AAA: At that time, I was asked to go to Nairobi for an interview for the visa at the U.S. embassy consulate. Oral
MM: Can you tell us, though, how did you win the lottery?
AAA: One of my friends submitted my applicationHistorical on my behalf for my whole family in 1995 without my knowledge. At the end ofPlaces 1995, he got my documents for the Diversity Visa at his address in the U.S. He wrote me saying “What shall I do?” I said, “Send it to Harer.” I had it in Harer. I did manage to complete all the forms.
MM: Thirty forms?
AAA: I had to fillGathering out formsMinnesota for eight people. I sent the forms back immediately. Then, I got a reply within three months. They told me, “Okay, you are set to get a visa. You should go to Nairobi for an interview at a given date.” I couldn’t go to Nairobi from Harer. I have no travel documents.Our I did not have the means. To go to Nairobi was really difficult. Also, to live in Nairobi was very difficult. I wrote to the Nairobi U.S. embassy four times and I asked them to transfer my file to Addis Ababa, as I requested. After some correspondence, they told me, “It’s not for you to ask us to transfer the file. Please, go to Addis Ababa with this letter and request them to transfer your file from the U.S. Embassy to the U.S. Consulate in Addis Ababa. It was difficult for me to get into U.S. Consulate in Addis Ababa to present my letter.
MM: To Addis Ababa?
15 AAA: I was in Addis Ababa, but couldn’t get to the Embassy to get in touch. A total of 4,850 Ethiopians won the Diversity Visa lottery and they were very busy on these people. Then, I wouldn’t stop. I had to repeatedly telephone. One day, a lady spoke to me and I said, “I am that man. I have a paper from Nairobi to come to your Embassy and ask you to transfer my file from there. It’s a mistaken posting. It’s not my fault. Can you give me a chance for an interview?” One day, I was called in and then they gave me a chance to speak to an employee of the U.S. Consulate to have my file transferred from Nairobi.
MM: Was your whole family with you in Addis Ababa?
AAA: No, it was only me. I was fighting. Then, I got the chance and, then, still it wasn’t easy. They said, “We’ll send an e-mail to ask for the file.” There was a long wait, but I wouldn’t give up. I sent a letter to Nairobi asking for my file to be transferred. Then, one day, they asked me to come to Addis Ababa. I went there and they said, “Your file has not come Projectyet.” I dropped the whole idea. I went home to my family and I looked for a house to settle down. At a latter date I got two letters: a letter inviting me to come to U.S. Consulate in Addis Ababa and another letter from the U.S., in which one of my friends here was sponsoring me.
MM: Oh, wonderful. History Society AAA: I went to Addis Ababa with my family. They said, “You take all these six people to America?” I said, “Yes.” She was a very nice lady,Oral I tell you. That lady . . . I said to her, “I can manage. I will work. I have a small amount of money. I can pay their way.” Then, she said, “We’ll give you the visa. Good luck.” I got it! I spent some of the money I had on tickets. I had to bring them up here without further delay. It was a long journey, but looking back, I thank God, we came over in 24 hours. PlacesHistorical MM: Yes.
AAA: I did manage.
MM: How did you get, then, from Ethiopia to the United States? Gathering AAA: By plane. I had to payMinnesota more money to get a plane, which took me direct to Minneapolis.
MM: DidOur you take Ethiopian airlines?
AAA: No! They won’t bring me here. The Russians won’t bring me here. Egyptian airlines the same—they were all cheaper. I took Alitalia. They dropped me in New York and, then, I took another plane to Minnesota. Alitalia gave me a discount because I showed them some documents and I used to work with them. I used to help them in Somalia. They gave a 25 percent discount, but still I had to pay a lot—over $10,000.
MM: Oh, my gosh! 16
AAA: One way. It was not easy. When I came here, I prayed. I said, “Thank God, I’m here.”
MM: Do you have any pleasant memories of the journey itself?
AAA: Everyday was interesting.
SA: [speaks in Somali]
AAA: We stopped in Nairobi to make a connection to Alitalia. Then, in the morning, we came to Rome. There was the Pope. We stopped there for two hours and made another connection. We came here the same day. We left at two o’clock in the morning from the Nairobi airport and at ten at night we came here. Project MM: You must have been exhausted.
AAA: It was not bad. We were happy. [Laughter]
MM: How did your children like the airplane flight? History Society AAA: They loved it. They were moving or asleep most of the flying time. It was a big plane. Oral SA: [unclear]
AAA: They were asleep most of the time. We had no problem, no headaches. They were singing. They got used to buses in Ethiopia, you know. WeHistorical used to ride all day on a bus from Harer to Addis Ababa and these small childrenPlaces were singing in Somali, Ethiopian, and things like that.
MM: A happy family.
AAA: We did manage.
MM: Did you flyGathering from AddisMinnesota Ababa to Nairobi?
AAA: Yes, by Ethiopian airlines. Our MM: Why did you pick Minnesota?
AAA: At the beginning, I wanted to go to Atlanta, to be honest with you. because of the Olympics.
[Laughter]
17 AAA: One of my friends said, “You won’t be able to find a place to put the kids in. The town will be full.” Then, one of my friends here asked me to come over here and he welcomed me at the airport. We stopped with him for ten days and, then, they found out that we had many kids and he was given an ultimatum, “You have to get this family out or we will—”
MM: His landlord?
AAA: Yes. Then, I took them to a shelter. The shelter really helped us. They gave us two rooms. Then, I found this place. As it is now, it’s much better than when I moved in.
MM: How long after you got here did you start working?
AAA: Almost six months. Project MM: That’s not bad.
AAA: But, it was not easy. I wanted to get out of the welfare assistance.
[Telephone interruption] History Society Excuse me. Oral It’s good. I enjoy it. I like working with kids. Now, I help many people who work with kids in translation—
MM: How did you go about getting the job? PlacesHistorical AAA: I applied for a teaching post to start with. I got a temporary teaching license for seven months. The Minneapolis Public School District #1 office had my resume. Then, one of my friends left that school and I found out that there was a vacancy. The principal contacted me and said, “We need somebody who can do that job.” I was interviewed on the telephone and, then, again on site and I got this job. It was below the job I wanted, but still . . . Gathering MM: It’s a start. Minnesota
AAA: . .Our . it’s a start. I thought I could get that job, look for a bigger house where I can read and then read for the license and get a better job.
MM: Good. Can you tell us a little about the Somali community here in Minnesota, about the cultural, social, and religious opportunities that they have to offer?
AAA: I think the Somali community here is well placed. There are so many resource areas they can draw on. Kids have schooling. They have good medical service. And they don’t have much to disturb them. They don’t engage, to my understanding, in activities, which are against the law. 18 They tend to be on the conservative side. Most of them work, except single mothers with many kids. Most of the people are going to work now and the number on welfare is being reduced, gradually. They have a number of community centers. They have the Somali Community of Minnesota. They have the Confederation of Somali Community. They have Somali Community Resource. There are so many other places.
MM: What do those centers offer?
AAA: Some are educational. Some are multi-purpose. For example, they help people with education. They help with security. They help in facilitating looking for jobs. Some are engaged in helping mothers. They are quite busy. They are supported by foundations and Hennepin County or . . . I don’t know what you call the St. Paul county [Ramsey]. There are about ten of these units. I call them units. It’s better that they came together because they would have been a force, but—I help some people who are working with the children, for example,Project early child development, people who are helping mothers, people who are helping young children. They’re always engaged in things, which could help the community. [speaks in Somali]
NM: You mentioned going to the mosque to pray. Where is the Somali mosque? Is there just one mosque for the Somali community or are there several? History Society AAA: There are several, as far as I know. There is one on Como Avenue. There is one in Columbia Heights and the Islamic Center. I think thereOral are about five mosques in Minneapolis and the suburbs.
MM: They are not just for Somalis?
AAA: All the Moslems. But, there arePlaces many SomalisHistorical in Minnesota.
MM: The community services . . . are there many things for children to do there at the community centers?
AAA: They have activities at the Brian Coyle Community Center. They have a school at the Islamic Center. MostGathering of the kids go to this Islamic Center [of Minnesota in Fridley]. I heard there is a Quranic school and a mosqueMinnesota at the Riverside Plaza. These communities, some of them have offices. Others don’t have offices. They are just starting. They help people and serve as a resource,Our to give them information as to where to go and where they can get help. Even, they have a section on prevention of crime and Mohammed Abdi Hassan, is engaged in that job. These community offices give membership cards, give references for jobs and assist many other fields for community members.
MM: What is the biggest challenge you are facing now, these days, with your family here in Minnesota?
19 AAA: I think Somalis, somehow, manage to get along with other people, relatively. They are relatively well placed to get along with other people—if you know them. Now, the only challenge I could think of is the language barrier. To know them well, you have to speak the same language. I think the language barrier is one item. The other one could be cultural diversity. There may be an element of suspicion. Some people tend to be more conservative than others or more religious than others and know who to trust and who not to trust. But, I think if they can communicate, they get along with almost anybody: with African-Americans, with European- Americans, with Asian-Americans. I know many Somalis have many friends here.
MM: What are some of your wife’s biggest challenges?
AAA: [speaks in Somali] problem.
SA: [speaks in Somali] Project
AAA: Challenge. [speaks in Somali]
SA: To speak English. When I want to speak English, it’s hard. [unclear] Somali in America is difficult. History Society AAA: Life . . . that was easy. She says, “Here, it is more difficult.” Oral MM: Right. What do you hope for your family?
SA: Children go to school and putting on the bus on the morning and taking them off in the afternoon is a full-time job. PlacesHistorical AAA: What she is trying to explain is, with children going to school, you don’t know what will happen to them.
SA: Yes.
AAA: They haveGathering to ride the bus. Minnesota SA: Yes, [unclear] bus. Our AAA: Put them on the bus and take them off the bus, this rhythm.
MM: There is a different rhythm here than in Somalia.
AAA: She is thinking that somebody must keep an eye on the children. A person will get used to how to trust people, how to be vigilant. For example, in this house, mother has to make it accident proof. It’s the same outside. You have to learn how to be secure. You have to feel safe. This has not come yet. 20
MM: It takes time.
AAA: It takes time, settling down—even for the children.
MM: Sure. What do you hope for your family’s future here in Minnesota?
AAA: Immense! America is a country of opportunity. With the help of God, if somebody works hard, you can reach the moon—honest! I believe it. I was educated in England. In England, you had social stratification and chances in life were limited. Only 5 percent of their kids go to college.
MM: You mean that they were kind of locked into that . . . ? Project AAA: More or less. In America, you can, like [President Ronald] Reagan, go from Chicago, go to California, get into politics and go to the top.
[Laughter] History MM: Right, even Reagan. Society
AAA: Everybody. Everybody may have a chance toOral go to the top. I am proud of some of your values here. I think anybody can work miracles here. I hope my kids will get through school and, then, I will, later, return to Somalia.
MM: Oh, really? You would like to go back, someday? PlacesHistorical AAA: I will relax better over there, because here now, I am working like a thirty year old man. I’m sixty-four—but, still, I’m happy. I get satisfaction, this rejuvenating time of life. I know some of the people here, if they have the chance . . . I know it’s a hard life here. You’ve got to work! I read a lot of things about American life, from the Thirteen Colonies, back in history, to going West, life was not easy here. But, we are lucky to come at this time. Gathering MM: Now, it’s different challenges.Minnesota
AAA: BecauseOur the Americans and especially the Minnesotans are helping us to settle, to get acclimatized, to get used to the environment, teaching us, teaching kids. This is something we can’t get anywhere in the world. But, it’s not easy. It’s not easy.
MM: Is there anything else you’d like to add that we might have left out that the children here in Minnesota would be really interested in hearing? Any questions we didn’t ask?
AAA: I think this, more or less, covers it.
21 AAA: The only thing I would add is that most of the Somalis are liberal-minded, but some may be conservative in values. They don’t like people encroaching into their Islamic beliefs and values. They are open people. They are people to make friends with and they respect other cultures and religious beliefs.
MM: Do you feel that should be an important part of their education to know about Africa?
AAA: Normally, we try to help them to know about Africa at school. Sometimes, I take one or two students to read in Somali so that other students can listen. At least hearing these different languages, shows that there are different people in the world. You can make them hear. You can make them see. You can hear them say, sometimes, a few words in Somali. For example, “thank you,” in Somalis is “mahadsanid.”
MM: At the school where you work, is it mostly American children? Project
AAA: Mostly, yes. It’s about 60 percent white European-Americans. Then, you have about 15 percent African-Americans, 30 percent Asian, about 10 percent Somalis. Asians are many. [speaks in Somali] History NM: What is the name of this school where you teach? Society
AAA: Armatage Community School. [speaks in Somali]Oral
[telephone rings - break in the interview]
MM: Give me your full name. PlacesHistorical MoA: Mohamed Amin.
MM: How old are you?
MoA: Fourteen. Gathering MM: Where were you born?Minnesota
MoA: Hargeisa.Our
MM: In what country is that?
MoA: In Somalia. Ex-British Somaliland.
MM: Where do you go to school? What grade will you be in this fall?
MoA: Grade 9 at Roosevelt High School. 22
MM: You’ll be going to Roosevelt High School. What grade will you be in?
MoA: Ninth.
MM: It’s summertime now, but can you remember what a day at school is like for you here in Minneapolis, say, last semester? Tell us about a day at school. What did you like about it? Did you like any of your subjects?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Which ones?
MoA: Science and math. Project
MM: What kind of math did you do?
MoA: Algebra. History MM: Were there some things you didn’t like about it? Society
MoA: No. Oral
MM: You liked everything?
MoA: Yes. Historical Places MM: Did you like your teachers?
MoA: Yes.
MM: What do you remember when you first came to Minnesota? What did you think about Minnesota? GatheringMinnesota
MoA: There was a lot of snow. Our MM: Did you like that?
MoA: No.
MM: Why?
MoA: It was cold.
23 MM: What did you wear when you first got here?
MoA: Jackets, snow shoes.
MM: What about the food? Did you like the food?
MoA: No.
MM: What were your favorite foods in Somalia?
MoA: Pasta.
NM: What’s [bah-stah]? Project MoA: It’s like rice.
MM: What’s in it?
MoA: A sauce. History Society MM: What do you eat for breakfast now? Oral MoA: Different . . .
SA: American food and Somali foods are different. Historical MM: Yes. What do you and your friendsPlaces do for fun?
MoA: Play basketball.
MM: Here in Minnesota?
MoA: Yes. GatheringMinnesota
MM: What did you do for fun in Somalia? Our MoA: Play soccer.
MM: Can you play soccer here?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Do you?
24 SA: In the summer, yes.
MM: Are you a good soccer player?
MoA: Not really.
MM: What kind of things did you do with your family back in Somalia?
SA: [speaks in Somali]
MM: Did you go to dinners at friends’ houses?
MoA: Yes. Project AAA: Talk loud.
MM: Did you visit with friends and family?
MoA: Yes. History Society MM: How did you get there? How did you travel between houses? Oral MoA: Walk.
MM: Was it far? Historical MoA: No. Places
MM: Did you have chores that you had to do at home, duties that you had to do to help your mom or your dad?
MoA: Yes. GatheringMinnesota MM: What did you do?
MoA: CleanOur the dishes.
MM: Ahhh, that’s nice. Anything else?
SA: Chop the vegetables.
MM: Chop vegetables?
SA: Yes. 25
MoA: Yes.
MM: Did you help with your little brothers and sisters?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Did you like that?
MoA: Yes.
[Laughter]
MM: How many brothers and sisters do you have? Project
MoA: Three brothers and two sisters.
MM: Is that a big family? History MoA: Yes. Society
MM: What surprised you the most when you got toOral Minnesota? Was it a surprise?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Is there anything beside the snow that surprisedHistorical you? Places SA: [speaks in Somali]
NM: May I ask you a question?
MoA: Yes. GatheringMinnesota NM: Your dad was saying that back in the school in Harer, sometimes, you guys got into fights with the other boys. Our MoA: No.
NM: No?
AAA: Ha, yes.
MoA: I was being chased.
26 NM: You were being chased?
AAA: They were being chased.
NM: The other kids were chasing you?
MoA: Yes.
NM: I’m sorry. Now, I understand. Here, in Minneapolis, have the kids from Minneapolis been nice to you guys or caused trouble?
MoA: Some of them are nice and some are not.
MM: Do you know why they’re not nice, sometimes? Project
MoA: If they see something they like, they’re going to say, “Give me that.” They’re going to take it away from me.
MM: They’re bullies? History Society MoA: Yes. Oral MM: What do you miss about Somalia?
MoA: My grandfathers. Historical MM: What kind of clothes did you wearPlaces in Somalia? Were they different?
MoA: Yes.
MM: How were they different?
[Pause] GatheringMinnesota
Are your duties and your chores different here than they were in Somalia or are they pretty much the same?Our
MoA: The same.
AAA: Have you understood the question? Your duties, your responsibilities within the family and how are they different over there and here. He’s more responsible here.
MoA: [unclear]
27 AAA: He has to look after himself. He has to look after the other children. He’s the eldest here and he has to help both of us. He types for me now.
MM: Oh, really?
AAA: I bought an old word processor and he’s doing most of the typing for me. He helps in my work. He helps some other people whom I help with translation.
MM: You do a lot here. Tell me how your school is different from your schools in East Africa. I know you went to more than one. What’s the biggest difference?
AAA: In Boorama, you were in the Quranic school and also in Mogadishu. Mogadishu, Boorama, Harer . . .how were these schools different from the ones in Minneapolis? Project MM: Is the school building different?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Is it bigger or smaller or the same? History Society MoA: Bigger. Oral MM: It’s bigger here in Minnesota?
MoA: Yes. Historical MM: How about the number of childrenPlaces in your class?
MoA: Bigger.
MM: Bigger here?
MoA: No, there.Gathering Minnesota
MM: How many children did you have in your class there? Our MoA: I can’t remember.
MM: Were there boys and girls in the same class?
MoA: No.
MM: Just boys?
28 MoA: Yes.
AAA: Islamic schools . . .
MM: Right. Now, you’ve been here two years. What do you like most about Minnesota?
AAA: [speaks in Somali] What do you like about Minnesota?
MoA: School.
MM: Do you like the schools better?
AAA: You’re going to have to express yourself in English, you know. You have to talk. Project MM: He’s probably a little shy.
Unidentified Speaker: Yes, shy.
MoA: I can’t [unclear]. History Society AAA: You cannot proceed like this. I ask you to express yourself. In America, if you don’t express yourself, your mother will not give you milk,Oral if you don’t talk.
MM: Do you like the sports here?
MoA: Yes. Historical Places MM: Do you like the food here?
MoA: Yes.
Unidentified Speaker: You like everything. GatheringMinnesota [Laughter]
MM: What’sOur the hardest thing about living in this new country?
AAA: [speaks in Somali] What do you find difficult?
MoA: [unclear]
AAA: Can’t you talk about security? Can’t you talk about the cold climate? Can’t you talk about some of your teachers who may not be good? Can’t you talk about the bus ride? Can’t you talk about this or that, whether they are good? If you have a problem, you have to express. 29
MM: Do you take a bus to school?
MoA: Yes.
MM: How long is the ride?
MoA: Fifteen minutes.
MM: Do you like the bus ride?
MoA: Yes.
MM: Do you like the cold weather? Project
MoA: No.
MM: So, you like summers best? History MoA: Yes. Society
MM: What do you do in the summer? Oral
MoA: Play soccer.
AAA: This is the first time I’ve seen him like this.Historical Places MM: He’s just shy with all these strangers.
AAA: You cannot be shy.
MM: What do you want to do when you grow up? GatheringMinnesota MoA: Doctor.
MM: CanOur I ask Mahamoud . . . ?
AAA: Mahamoud is this one.
MM: What grade are you in, Mahamoud?
MaA: Fourth.
MM: Do you like school? 30
MaA: Yes.
MM: What do you like about it? Do you like the subjects, the classes?
MaA: Yes.
MM: What are your favorites?
MaA: Art.
MM: Do you draw?
MaA: Yes. Project
MM: What do you draw?
MaA: Stuff. History MM: What do you like to draw? Society
MaA: Cars, flowers. Oral
MM: That’s nice. Do you like your teachers?
MaA: Yes. Historical Places MM: Who is your favorite teacher?
AAA: Only one teacher.
MM: Oh, he has only one teacher? GatheringMinnesota AAA: [Oh-dahn-to].
MaA: MyOur gym teacher.
MM: What’s your gym teacher’s name?
MaA: Mr. Peterson.
MM: What do you do in gym?
MaA: We play basketball. 31
MM: Are you good at that?
MaA: Yes.
MM: Good. Anything else? What kind of jobs do you have in the house? Do you have jobs in the house?
MaA: No.
MM: Not yet? What do you do for fun with your friends?
MaA: Play outside with soccer. Project MM: What do you do for fun with your family?
[Laughter]
AAA: They read. I compel them to read, most of the time. History Society MM: Do you play games in the house? Oral MaA: Yes.
SA: [speaks in Somali} Historical MM: Do you remember going to schoolPlaces in Africa?
MaA: Yes.
MM: What do you remember about it?
MaA: No. GatheringMinnesota
MM: How is it different from this school? Our MaA: We don’t eat lunch in that school.
MM: You had to wait until you got home?
MaA: Yes.
MM: Was that a long time?
32 MaA: No.
MM: What are some of your favorite food here?
MaA: Cake.
[children laugh]
MM: What else?
MaA: Cereal.
MM: Do you remember the building your school was in, in Africa? Project MaA: Yes.
MM: What was it like?
MaA: An old building. History Society MM: How many rooms did it have? Oral MaA: One or two.
MM: How many rooms does your school have here? Historical MaA: One? Places
AAA: Do you mean the class? The school, Armatage, how many rooms? One thousand and one. [Laughter]
MM: A lot. GatheringMinnesota MaA: Yes, it’s got lots of rooms.
MM: DoOur you have a best friend in class?
MaA: Yes.
MM: Who is your best friend?
MaA: Abdul Med.
MM: What do you like most about living here in Minnesota? 33
MaA: I like to play outside in the snow.
MM: You like the snow?
MaA: Yes.
MM: What do you do in the snow?
MaA: Make snowmen.
MM: What’s hard about living here? Is anything hard about it?
MaA: No. Project
MM: That’s good. How about English, has that been hard for you to learn?
MaA: A little bit. History MM: You speak very well. Society
AAA: Better than his brother. Oral
MM: [Laughter] Do you think you’re getting better in English?
MaA: Yes. Historical Places MM: Your father speaks very well. Do you learn a lot from your father?
MaA: Yes.
MM: What’s special about being from Somalia? You can answer that one, too, Mohamed, if you like.. GatheringMinnesota
AAA: [speaks in Somali] What’s special about being from Somali? [speaks in Somali] This one was too youngOur when we left.
MM: Anybody can answer that one. What’s special about being from Somalia?
AAA: What do you like about being Somali?
NM: What makes you special and different than other kids who aren’t from Somalia?
MoA: Being Moslem. 34
MM: Do you go to the mosque?
MaA: Yes.
MM: With your dad?
MaA: Yes.
AAA: [unclear]. Being Somali itself has great value. They’re Moslems and we tell them that what destroyed Somalia was corrupt leadership, tribalism. They don’t want to associate themselves with tribes. They want to be free (tribes) from this and I hope they will be free. I leave them alone. I don’t push them to get ideas . . . try to think liberally, go their own way, but help them along in retaining their religion and some positive Somali culturalProject values as f ar as possible.
MM: Mahamoud, what do you plan to be when you grow up?
MaA: Pilot. History Society MM: That’s exciting. Oral MM: How about you? What’s your name?
AA: Ahmed. Historical MM: What do you plan to be, Ahmed?Places
AA: A lawyer.
MM: Okay. How about the girls? What do you want to be when you grow up?
MA: A doctor. GatheringMinnesota
MM: Doctor . . . what’s your name? Our MA: Mona.
AAA: She’s in kindergarten. She’s learning.
MM: And what’s your name?
FA: Filsan.
35 AAA: F-I- L-S-A-N
MM: Filsan, what do you want to be when you grow up?
FA: A teacher.
MM: Does anybody want to add anything before we stop? What’s his name?
AAA: Amin.
MM: Amin, do you know what you want to be when you grow up?
AmA: Policeman. Project AAA: Or Michael Jordan.
MM: Oh, he wants to be Michael Jordan. [Laughter]
AAA: What was it he said? History Society Unidentified Speaker: “I am Michael Jordan.” Oral AAA: You want to be Michael Jordan? Good luck, man. [unclear]
[Laughter] Historical MM: Does anybody want to say anythingPlaces else?
NM: Who in Minneapolis . . . are your friends mostly other Somali people or do you have friends, like, in the neighborhood who aren’t Somali?
MaA: Somali kids. GatheringMinnesota AAA: Who are the Somali kids? [unclear]
MaA: [speaksOur in Somali]
AAA: At school?
MaA: Here.
AAA: In this environment, they play with some Somalis here. These two, Mahamoud and Filsan, go to an American teacher here in the neighborhood, who invited them to come in the afternoon
36 to assist them with school. They have a beautiful room where they have children from different nationalities.
NM: At the Boys’ and Girls’ Club?
AAA: Yes.
MoA: [unclear] Burlington.
AAA: They call it Burlington. He helps the teacher on the computer and in the lessons for some of the children. These three go there and these two go to a soccer club in a neighboring community center.
NM: At the warehouse. Project
AAA: I have arranged it for them. They exercise in the summer. I don’t keep them indoors. When they are here, I keep an eye on them outside. Somehow, they don’t give me any trouble. So long as they look after themselves . . . They are healthy. The groups they go with . . . there are not many Somalis around here. They don’t know many people aroundHistory here. Winter is indoor life. They don’t move at all. In the summer, they don’t have much time.Society They go to these two places. None of them get sick. None of them break limbs. Oral MM: They look very healthy, all of them.
AAA: I ask them to understand the situation we are in at present. That’s why I need to earn more money to save for their future educations. PlacesHistorical MM: Congratulations on your beautiful family. They’re really lovely.
AAA: It’s really a [unclear] job. It’s not an easy life. Life in America is good, but you’ve got to work hard.
MM: Oh, sure. Gathering Minnesota AAA: I wish I was here in the 1960s, when I was young. But, now, I was helped by many people at the begiOurnning in 1996 when we arrived. Many people, even if they don’t help you materially, they wish you luck. That’s keeping my morale high.
MM: Exactly.
NM: Hey guys, do any of you remember a joke or riddle that you learned in Somalia or funny stories?
[Laughter] 37
AAA: They did not know much about some culture when they left Somalia.
MoA: [speaks in Somali]
AAA: He was five years when he left.
MM: It looks like they’re remembering something.
NM: What are you remembering?
[Laughter]
MoA: [unclear] Project
AAA: These jokes at school with their friends. I think they picked them up in Ethiopia. One of the reasons why I said they have not been in refugee camps. We have not been through the refugee camp. Those people have really come through the hard way. Some died on the road. Some lost limbs. History Society MM: Maybe we can meet some people that came through the refuge camps. Oral AAA: That may be.
MM: We really want to thank you very much for giving us this time. Historical AAA: You are welcome. Places
MM: This should add greatly to our curriculum for the fourth graders. Like Nora said . . .
NM: [unclear] slip.
AAA: The historicalGathering societyMinnesota use.
MM: When we get the transcript written out, we’ll send it to you and, in case we have anything wrong, youOur can correct it.
AAA: I’ll correct it.
MM: And we’ll correct it for you then.
AAA: I hope you get something out of it.
MM: Oh, absolutely. 38
AAA: At least you’ll hear your questions, then, have an idea about what my response was.
MM: Yes.
AAA: That will be helpful.
MM: It’s a very exciting story.
[break in the interview]
AAA: . . . so many things in our mind. The impression is sharp but still . . . In Somali, we have the saying which says, “Everybody is as old as he has seen.” Project MM: You’re as old as your experience.
AAA: What you see, the older the experience and the older you are. Even if you are twenty years old, if you move and you have experiences, you are older by virtue of seeing a lot. History I think the Somali people, we are one of the many African countriesSociety which just destroyed itself. We destroyed ourselves and we haven’t got the intelligence or I should say, we haven’t got the mind to collect our remnants now. Oral
MM: What do you see for the future for Somalia?
AAA: In a country, you have land and you have people and you have a name and flag as a nation. The resources are always there. WhatPlaces we have built,Historical we have destroyed, but what God put there is always there. Nature is an endowment and God’s blessing.
MM: It is still there, yes.
AAA: There may be minerals. There may be oil. The sea is there. Whoever comes, I think, will build again. Our Gatheringsweat and our muscle and our mind—what we had, we have destroyed—towns. The strange thing is when MinnesotaI went back to Mogadishu and they were destroying and again building in another area. They are destroying houses, taking the bricks and building it somewhere else. That typeOur of mentality, to me, is not good. I told some of my friends, “Even if America puts in the Marshall Plan, as they did in Europe it will take a long time to reconstruct and rehabilitate Somalia. You’ve had the basis of technologies in Europe but in Somalia you have no basis to build on. We have destroyed all the schools, all the hospitals, all the infrastructure and the worst thing, is we lost the people. People like me, as old as me, who put everything aside, my thirty years, the best of my life, is lost. The most difficult thing to get back is this experience, people who know, the knowledge. They’re all in Europe, in America, in Asia, or Australia possibly in parts of Africa and Latin America.
39 MM: They’re scattered throughout.
AAA: They even go from South Africa to Brazil to Argentine.
MM: The Somalia diaspora.
AAA: The diaspora. Of course, the Jewish diaspora, when we compare the two, the Jews, their Judaism and this strength were together wherever they go. Also, they had sharper minds and resources. They could sometimes manage. Now, they’ve got $1.25 billions from Swiss banks!
MM: Don’t you see that there’s a cohesiveness among the Somali people here?
AAA: They are not as strong as the Jewish people. The Jewish people have been through the mill. There is no nation like them. They used to move from the Iberian coastProject to Russia and they come back and then move because they were clever. Everybody was telling them, “No, they are exploiting.” They have done a lot and they are still doing it. I wish they could understand what’s now in the Middle East, know how to live with the Arabs, who are the main opposing force. Only time will solve these things. History I was in Addis Ababa. We were in these conferences, reconciliation,Society rehabilitation, all this and everybody came to our help. Everybody was there. They just couldn’t make us see the light. Oral MM: Still divisive.
AAA: The whole social structure fell to pieces. But, everybody was ready to help us. We just refused to listen. Now, there is still hope. In the Quran it says, “Never give up. There is always God.” [speaks in Somali] If you say, PlacesGod is notHistorical giving, you are lost, finished. God will help us. I will go back. My wife and the kids will stay here. I think they’ll settle in America to make life here if they can work. Somebody who is not working can’t stay here. The welfare can’t take you anywhere. I don’t like welfare. [Laughter] They don’t give us food stamps because we came on a Diversity visa. They used to help us pay the rent—no food stamps, by law.
MM: Do they helpGathering you now with the rent? Minnesota AAA: When I’m not working, they help us with the rent, $200, $300, sometimes. That’s good, good. OneOur day, I went to St. Paul for the refugee cause. I went to the senate to say a few words in the meeting, and I said to them, “Thank God, I’m here and I thank you.” What they are seeing something they will never forget. I know Somalis can work. They can work to earn and make a living.
MM: Some have started their own businesses?
40 AAA: Yes, small ones. I hope they don’t cheat one another. They put dollars together to open small businesses. Other people who came to the U.S. earlier in the 1970s and 1980s went along the same lines.
MM: Like the Uruba Restaurant just opened?
AAA: Yes? What is it Uruba? Where about is it?
MM: It’s on Twenty-Seventh Avenue and Twenty-Eighth Street. It’s not far at all.
AAA: I know some people who have opened (halal?) here small stores. You have restaurants and you have butcheries.
MM: Where is that? Project
AAA: Just here on Twenty-Sixth Street they have a store, restaurant and a butchery.
MM: Great. History AAA: There is a big revival in this area. I am planning to take a houseSociety up here. “Neighbor Helps Neighbor,” is a community organization that is helping me. They are rehab[ilitating] an old house here and I am getting a loan –a mortgage from a bankOral to purchase it.
MM: Good.
AAA: Probably, I will pay half of what I pay here.Historical Eight hundred is too much. Half of what I earn goes for rent. That’s why we livePlaces from hand to mouth. I have to keep them strong and clean and buy clothes. I can’t go back to sell my houses in Somalia. If I sell all my houses over there, good houses, I won’t get $100,000. I may get $60,000 or something like that. I may, but still I am not giving up. There are people over there who look after stores and some of the houses, so it’s not bad. The kids, I will try as far as I can to bring them up. They have been through a difficult period. They have seen a lot of things, which you cannot imagine. That’s why they are all reserved and possiblyGathering shy! Minnesota MM: A lot of children are quiet around strangers, so that’s not unusual. Our AAA: The girls are much better. In my school, girls are always much better than boys in writing and expression.
[Laughter]
MM: They grunt at you, hmmm?
AAA: Do you have kids? 41
MM: Yes, I have
[break in the interview]
MM: They’re grown.
AAA: Besides the one you are carrying, how many do you have?
NM: One, a boy who is five years and two months, almost Amin’s age.
AAA: Yes. You may be hoping to have a daughter now.
MM: We’d like to thank you and your family for taking time with us today.Project
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