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Transcript of Oral History Interview with Saed Haji Saed Haji Narrator Ibrahim Hirsi Interviewer January 13, 2015 Saint Cloud, Minnesota Saed Haji -SH Ibrahim Hirsi -IH IH: This is Ibrahim Hirsi recording for the Minnesota Historical Society Somali Oral History Project. I am interviewing Saed Haji in Saint Cloud. The date is January 13, 2015. Saed, first of all, thank you very much for your time here with us. SH: You’re welcome. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to speak with you as well. IH: Great. Thanks! First question, Saed, if you could tell us where were you born? SH: I was born and raised in a small town in Kenya called Garissa, and that is my root. There is a small river that runs through that small town. It’s called River Tana. And most of my childhood, up to now I still have fond memories of where I come from and that small town. IH: Saed, you were born and grew up in Kenya, but you’re Somali. SH: Yes. IH: If you could tell those who don’t know, how did you end up in Kenya? SH: Excellent. So, basically, what it is is there is a huge population, a huge area that encompasses to be part of Kenya that happened when the colonial British left parts of Africa. They handed up part of the Somali territories and included them to be part of Kenya. And that’s why the Somali population happened to be in parts of the Kenyan territory. It was a Somali territory, the Somali lived in that area, but it’s under, it’s considered to be the territory of Kenya by the demarcation of the border by the British. So there is a significant population of Somalis, it’s significant land. For example, I can say it’s what happened between Mexico and the United States in parts of California and also parts of Texas, where you have areas that were given up by Mexico to the US. And also this is the same thing that happened—that there are land areas, Somali-inhabited area that was given up to the Kenyan government. IH: So you’re what they consider Somali Kenyan. 1 SH: Yes, I am Somali Kenyan, and always proud to be a Somali. So Somalis do live in parts of Kenya. They also live in parts of Ethiopia. There’s a whole region called Ogadenia—that’s the name they give. But it’s part of Ethiopian territory, just by the border, yes. IH: So tell us a little bit more about your childhood years in the area that you lived. What did you do for fun and how was education like and what was life like there? And a little bit of background of your family, too—your parents. SH: As I explained to you, I have a lot of history, very rich history, dating back, way back. So in this part of Kenya that is Somali-inhabited, there are three major towns—Garissa, Wajir, and Mandera. These are the three major towns where there is a significant population of Somali Kenyans. Garissa itself is a small city with a population of about a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand people. Recently it is about a million now. Because after the civil war there was a lot of refugee settlements that are coming across the border from Somalia that came to settle that part of Kenya. You have one of the biggest refugee camps there as well—Ifo and Hagadera [Xagardheer], which host a huge number of refugees from Somalia, significantly. But there are also refugees from Sudan, South Sudan, and other parts of Africa as well—eastern Africa, that is. Garissa, growing up, I went to a primary school called Garissa Primary School. I studied there until Standard Six. They have a different system of education. More so they use the British form of education—that is English and Swahili being the languages that are spoken in the system. I did my Standard Six, and then after that I moved on to a different school. It’s a boarding school and young Muslim children’s home. And when I moved there I started from Standard Six to when I finished Standard Eight. Standard Eight, I did my final exam. After eight years in that primary school you do an exam, then you go to high school. Then I went to high school down in Kenya in the Rift Valley. It’s one of the biggest provinces in Kenya. I went to a school called Nakuru High School. I did my four years there. After I finished, I applied for further studies in the UK and the US, and I happened to come to Florida to do my studies there as well. Then I moved to Minnesota. Doing fun stuff—I mean, there is a river there. It’s almost similar to the Mississippi. It’s not in size in length, but in size. But it’s very wild. It’s not like the Mississippi—we have a lot of crocodiles, hippos. And we used to swim there, growing up. It’s a very hot region, just as hot as Arizona during the summer, and we used to frolic and dance in those rivers. And we’ll come out every afternoon after we get off school, we will go and have a dip in the river, you know, play around, dangerously getting close to the crocodiles sometimes. We’ve lost a couple of friends, growing up. I’ve seen a couple of people die in the river, but it’s just a normal, people just saw it as a normal life. Across the river there are just women that are washing clothes, beautiful clothes influenced from India, saris, just glittering in the sun. Amazingly, very beautiful. Growing up, I have beautiful memories growing up in this town. Running barefoot and dodging and running away from mosquitoes at night. Just being a young man. Being naughty, throwing stones, fighting and getting scratched here and there, and just having fights and just being a young Somali boy growing up in a Somali region. So I have a lot of memories in that. IH: And we’ll come back to your personal life and your memories in Somalia. I interviewed people for this project, I mean, a lot of them told me that they left Somalia because of civil war, 2 and some of them came to the USA through Kenya. So I’m just wondering how did those people kind of influence other Somalis in Kenya and life in Somalia in general? How were they seen? What was their story like? SH: So, Somalis are Somalis—like Somalis in Kenya, Somalis in Ethiopia, Somalis everywhere they live. Somalis share one religion, they share one language, one culture. There is a variance a little bit in how they speak, in the tone and the way they pronounce some of the words, but they completely do understand each other. There is no significant difference in languages and culture and religion. That’s something that they have in common. They’re all nomads. This is historically. They have been known to be nomadic people that moved from one place to another, always looking for greener pasture for their animals. They have cows, they have cattle, they have camels, they have sheep. So they intermarry, they move from one region to another, they meet, they talk. Linguistically, we are very rich, we are very poetic, Somalis, and that’s across the region in East Africa. That is one thing that is very common. Now, slightly there is a difference. People that live in Kenya, the Somalis were closed out because of the borders, Kenyan borders. That basically said, they divided the Somali into different groups. That is, Somalis from Somalia and then there are Somalis that live in Kenya that are Kenyans, but sometimes they are Somalis. They have that heritage there. So after many years—because this border demarcation goes down a long time ago—so after many years, Somalis and Kenyans kind of have taken on some of the cultural aspects of other communities— very diverse, different. There are almost forty-two tribes in Kenya, while in Somalia it’s just one. So with that, they developed. They kept their culture—the dance, the music, the religion, the language was there—but they also included, borrowed language and other things that became part of their culture. And their behavior as well changed. They were more subdued, more just worrying about what is in between them—and when I am talking about right wing on the Kenyan side of the border—they influence each other that they can do things a certain way. Just plain working hard, going to school. You know, that you don’t have to be really a nomad. You have other options that you can get into. Then the civil war happened, which was a sad thing. We had an explosion of people running away from the war, that fell to victims of war, running all the way from Mogadishu and other parts of Somalia, coming through the Kenyan border and coming to the Somali regions, inhabited regions of Kenya. And with their arrival, they brought in new ideas, the idea of thinking outside the box, the idea of being independent, the idea of, you know, you don’t really have to stay in one place, that you can go to other places. You can go to Europe, you can go to the US, you can go to so many other countries.
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