Third Session • Thirty-Fifth Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES

and PROCEEDINGS {HANSARD)

39-40 Elizabeth II

Publishedunder the authorityof The Honourable Denis C.Rocan Speaker

VOL. XLI No. 32 ·1:30 p.m., WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18,1992

MG-8048 ISSN 0542-5492

Printed by theOffice of the Queens Printer, Province of Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature

Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation

NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY ALCOCK, Reg Osborne Liberal ASHTON, Steve Thompson NDP BARRETT, Becky Wellington NDP CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights Liberal CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NDP CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples Liberal CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NDP CONNERY, Edward Portage Ia Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DOER, Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James Liberal ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Clif Interlake NDP EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NDP GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Liberal GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NDP LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Liberal LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NDP McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon NDP SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry PC WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NDP WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NDP 1365

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, March 18,1992

The House met at 1 :30 p.m. likely that the accused person will not reappear in Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): I must inform the court; and House of the unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker The problem of conjugal and family violence is a and would ask, in accordance with the statutes, that matter of grave concern for all Canadians and the Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Dacquay) take the Chair. requires a multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and children, be PRAYERS protected from furtherharm . ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that PRESENTING PETITIONS the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Deputy McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Laurene amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the Myrnold, Kim Maksymyk, Caroline Rizkalla and courtsto prevent the release of individuals where it others requesting the government show its strong is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of commitment to dealing with child abuse by further conjugal or family violence being considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child perpetrated. (Mr. Dewar) Abuse campaign. Mr. George Hlckes (Point Douglas): Madam *** Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Allison Dewar, Laurie Sutherland, Katie Sutherland I have reviewed the petition of the honourable and others requesting the government show its member, and it complies with the privileges and strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by practices of the House and complies with the rules. considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Is it the will ofthe House to have the petition read? Abuse campaign. The petition of the undersigned citizens of the Ms.Marianne Cerllll {Radisson): I beg to present province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: the petition of Carole Cahill, Shannon Mason, Debra Delveaux and others requesting the Minister of THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in Canada to amend the Criminal Code to prevent the today's world; and release of individuals where there is substantial It is the responsibility of the government to likelihoodof further family violence. recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse Madam Deputy Speaker {Louise Dacquay): campaign raise public awareness and necessary have reviewed the petition of the honourable funds to deal with crime; and member, and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? Child Abuse campaign will hamper the effortsof all The petition of the undersigned citizens of the good citizens to help abused children. province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that: WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that The bail review provisions in the Criminal Codeof the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be Canada currently set out that accused offenders, pleased to request that the government of Manitoba including those suspected of conjugal or family show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse violence, be released unless it can be proven that by considering restoring the Fight Back Against the individual is a danger to society at large or it is Child Abuse campaign. (Ms. Barrett) 1366 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

*** WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be I have reviewed the petition of the honourable pleased to request that the Minister of Justice (Mr. member, and it complies with the privileges and McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to practices of the House and complies with the rules. amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? courts to prevent the release of individuals where it * (1335) is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of The petition of the undersigned citizens of the further conjugal or family violence being province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that: perpetrated. (Mr. Chomiak)

The bail review provisions in the Criminal Codeof Introduction of Guests Canada currently set out that accused offenders, including those suspected of conjugal or family MadamDeputy Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, violence, be released unless it can be proven that I would like to draw the attention of all members of the individual is a danger to society at large or it is the House to the public gallery, where we have with likely that the accused person will not reappear in us this afternoon, from Victor Wyatt School, thirty court; and Grade 4 students under the direction of Mr. Bell. This school is located in the constituency of the The problem of conjugal and family violence is a honourable member for Seine River (Mrs. matter of grave concern for all Canadians and Dacquay). requires a multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and children, be Also with us this afternoon are eighty-two Grade protected from furtherharm . 9 students from the Sargent Park School, who are under the direction of Mr. Robert Forrester. WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome pleased to request that the Minister of Justice (Mr. you this afternoon. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to amend the Criminal Codeof Canada to permit the ORAL QUESTION PERIOD courts to prevent the release of individuals where it is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of North AmericanFree Trade Agreement further conjugal or family violence being Government Position perpetrated. (Mr. Reid) Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, during the last provincial election-and dare I mention the Leaders' I have reviewed the petition of the honourable debate?-1 asked the Premier (Mr. Filmon) of the member, and it complies with the privileges and province a very, very serious question about free practicesof the House and complies with the rules. trade with Mexico and asked the Premier whether Is it the will ofthe House to have the petition read? he was opposed to the free trade position, what is The petition of the undersigned citizens of the your position? The answer from the Premier at that province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that: time in the debate was, no, we are not going to The bail review provisions in the Criminal Codeof support the free trade with Mexico. Canada currently set out that accused offenders, Since that time we have seen the unconditional including those suspected of conjugal or family "now go to a conditional "maybe.w On countless violence, be released unless it can be proven that times in this Chamber, we have been asking the the individual is a danger to society at large or it is government their position on not only the substance likely that the accused person will not reappear in of the free trade agreement but the timing of the free court; and trade agreement with Canada, United States and Mexico. In fact, I asked the Premier this question in The problem of conjugal and family violence is a his Estimates last spring. matter of grave concern for all Canadians and requires a multifaceted approach to ensure that I would ask the Premier in light of the fact that the those at risk, particularly women and children, be Prime Minister is now stating that they are on a very protected from furtherharm. fast track for free trade with United States and March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1 367

Mexico, and in light of the fact that the Prime Minister That is the clearest position that has been put is even talking about dates as early as April of 1992, forth by any provincial government in the country, has the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) advised the and that is the position of the government of federal government to put this on the slowtrack so Manitoba. that Canadians will have an idea of what is in the Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Premier agreement, or has the Premier not phoned the (Mr. Filmon) has given us no answerof whether he Prime Minister to communicate our concern about advised the Prime Minister to go on the fast track the fast track that the Prime Minister is now taking which is presently in existence now. I guesswe will with the President of the United States and the just step aside like we have done before, and President of Mexico? Mulroney will sign the free trade agreement, and * (1340) then we will pull our six conditionsout of the hat at Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): Madam Deputy the end of the day after it is all over. Speaker, if I were the Leader of the Opposition, I The Premier has stated that we have taken the would not want to mention the last televised debate strongest position of any other government In either. Canada. I would point out that he made no I repeat, at the time, in 1990, nothing was known statement to the Prime Minister directly at the last of the proposal or of any potential proposal for a free First Ministers' meeting dealing with the economy. trade agreement as to whether or not there was I would also point out to the Premier that the Premier anything that was supportable or not supportable. of Saskatchewan has said directly to the Prime Since then as information has come out, Manitoba Minister,in front of all Canadians, as far as the North has put its position clearly on the table and has American free trade negotiations are going on, the writtento the Honourable Michael Wilson indicating so-called Mexico round, Saskatchewan urges that that we would not be able to support a free trade they be shelved until the lasting impacts of the agreement unless six conditions were met. Canada-U.S.A. Free Trade Agreement become Those six conditions were as follows: (1) more clear. Manitoba insists that the trilateral negotiations must I would ask the Premier of Manitoba: Will he be not result in a renegotiation of the current taking a strong definitive position on the fast track Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement; (2) Manitoba that is now in existence at the economic First believes that Canada must seek assurances that Ministers' meeting next week with the Prime under any free trade agreement, labour standards Minister? in Mexico will improve in line with Mexican Mr. Fllmon: I will say to the Leader of the prosperity and will be adequately enforced; (3) Opposition that he is jumping at media reportSand Manitoba believes that negotiations between doing things with respect to things that are put in Canada, the U.S. and Mexico must encompass various speculative reports. I remind him that in broad coverage of issues with respect to response to these speculative reports, Trade environmental standards; (4) Manitoba calls upon MinisterMichael Wilson has stated that, firstly, there the federal government to ensure that is no deal yet and there will be no deal unless it is comprehensive and adequately funded adjustment good for Canada. Secondly, the final agreement measures be provided to ensure that Manitoba and could well be very different fromthe speculation that Canada are equipped to capitalize on the is currently in the media. Finally, the reports that opportunities provided by trade liberalization; (5) Manitoba stresses the need for policies at all levels have been in the media have been based upon of governmentwhich reinforce the effortsand needs material that is both partial and out of date. of Manitoba businesses in adjusting to trade I suggest to him that the best positionfor us to be liberalization within a globalized world market; and in is to state unequivocally the conditions that must (6) Manitoba urges the federal government to follow be fulfilled before such an agreement is acceptable through on its commitment to involve provinces in to Manitoba and the people of Manitoba. That is developing the Canadian mandate and objectives what we have done, and we have put it forwardvery and to implement full provincial participation clearly, not in political statements or knee-jerk throughout these negotiations. reactions, but in very well-considered and 1368 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

well-presented concerns that must be met in order them in developing our policy, because they are the to be acceptable to us. ones who have to deal with any change in a North American free trade agreement on a day-to-day North American Free Trade Agreement basis in terms of doing business here in Manitoba. Government StudyTabling Request They have provided us with some of their Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): The concerns. It was based on those reviews and Premier did have an unequivocal position in the last consultations that helped us formulate the position election campaign during the debate, Madam that we did in fact take and to attach the six Deputy Speaker. He now has a set of six conditionsthat were put in placeto any support for conditions, but he cannot tell us whether he is in NorthAmerican free trade. We will continue to work favour of a "fast track, slow track" or whether he has with the private sector in terms of meeting the advised the Prime Minister on any track to follow. concerns of Manitobans. He quotes Michael Wilson. This is the same person * (1345) who told Canadians that the GSTwould be revenue neutral. Again, we see the Premier not taking a Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report strong stand. Northern Court Services They have the Georgetown draft. The provinces Mr. Elijah Harper (Rupertsland): My question is have the Dallas draft on trade, and they cannot tell to the Minister of Justice. us yet whether theythink the Prime Minister should When government has virtually ignored go ahead and initial this agreement or not in terms recommendations of the Aboriginal Justice of a quick pace and whether he will take any stand Inquiry-so far its major actions had been two at next week's First Ministers' meeting, Madam photo-opportunity press conferences featuring the Deputy Speaker. Justice minister (Mr. McCrae) and the Minister of I have a furtherquestion to the Premier. In 1988 Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey), hardly the sort of in this Chamber, the Premier stated on August 5, action that was promised when the report was 1988, that free trade with the United States based handed down six months ago. on their empirical study would create between My question is for the Minister of Justice. Has he 1 0,000 and 15,000 new net jobs in Manitoba. read the report yet and, if he has, does he reconcile Madam Deputy Speaker, I assume the Premier has the recommendations of the report with his plan to again an empirical study on the free trade create a two-tierjustice system, where the service agreement with Mexico. He has a very, very in northern communities is even worse than it is expensive Economic Secretariat that he has put in already? place to give Manitobans that kind of empirical material. Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Deputy Speaker, if I Will the Premier today table the study that his understand the honourable member correctly, he secretariat has done on the winners, losers and job was referring to a newspaper article today, not opportunities with a North American free trade naming some unnamed sources, and it relates to agreement? contract negotiation discussions which are Hon. Eric Stefanson (Ministerof Industry, Trade underway. I was contacted by the newspaper and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, while we involved and declined to comment on the specifics have drawn on the resources of some ofthe national of the issues that are the subject of collective studies that are being done on the Canada-U.S.­ bargaining. The honourable memberknows better Mexico free trade, the best resource that we have than to suggest that this government has ignored are the people of Manitoba and the people doing the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry recommendations. business in Manitoba. He knows also that we await with anticipation the In the development of our position on this participation of aboriginal leadership in discussions particular issue, we met at length with all of the that will lead to implementation of real programs for central organizations. We met with labour unions. real people in Manitoba. We met with the academicmemb ers ofour various Mr. Harper: Madam Deputy Speaker, northerners universities and communities and helped utilize expect a better system- March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1369

Madam Deputy Speaker: Question. School Division Boundary Review Cancellation Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report Mrs. Sharon Carstalrs (Leader of the Second Northern CourtServices Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, we have Mr. EliJah Harper (Rupertsland): My been pointing out to this government since 1986 of supplementary question is to the Minister of a need to review school division boundaries, a Northern Affairs. review that has not been conducted effectively in this province for 40 years. Finally in the 1990 Has the Minister of Northern Affairs read the campaign, we got a commitment from the Premier report? Does he disagree with the report in terms that, yes, along with the revision to The City of court services in northern communities? of Winnipeg Act, we would get a review of school Hon. James Downey (Minister of Northern division boundaries. Affairs): Madam Deputy Speaker, the government Can the Premier tell this House today why his has reviewed the report. We have established a government has deliberately backed down to their process by which positive changes can be made on commitment to parents, children, trustees and the behalf of the aboriginal people. As soon as the need for education in this province? aboriginal people identify themselves to work on those working groups, action will be taken. Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, as was, I think explained and outlined Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report quite adequately yesterday by the Minister of Northern CourtServices Education and Training (Mrs. Vodrey), there are a nu mber of issues that are actively under Mr. EliJah Harper(Rupertsla nd): Will the Minister consideration and under action by the minister and of Northern Affairs answer this question? her department,many of which have varying effects Aboriginal people are tired of being treated as on the delivery of education services throughout the second-class citizens. How can this government province of Manitoba that need to have the time to justify cuts when the northern justice system is be able to take effectand to be able to be dealt with creatin!;r8nd not only failing the people in the by the various school divisions involved. North? Will the proposed cuts not result in more Yes, l will openly andfreely admit that thepromise guilty pleas and more people needlessly serving the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs) time in prison? referred to was made during the election campaign. Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and I made that promise believing that there was a need Attorney General): I have no idea what the for a review. Subsequently, as a result of the fact honourable member is talking about, Madam that we are dealing now with the new Education Deputy Speaker. I do not see anything relating to funding formula; we are dealing now with new cuts with respect to the delivery of justice services, Francophone governance structure to be the delivery of real servicesto real people. In fact, implemented over the next while; also with respect if the honourable member engages in discussion to the High School Review implementation-all of with me when we get to the review of the Estimates those matters I have been persuaded by members of my department, I would be happy to discuss the of school boards in the educational community are many, many aspects of the Aboriginal Justice matters that require adjustment, flexibility and Inquiry to which this governmentis committing itself response by the school community, the education to move forward with aboriginal people in the future. community-now is not the time to further impose It would be nice, however, and we look forward to yet another potential major change on them. This having the aboriginal leadership join us at the table is a matter that ought to be put on the back burner so that we can together implement these things. at the present time. Perhaps the honourable member can use whatever I believe that the Minister of Education made the influence he has with the aboriginal leadership in right decision and the right policy decision on this this province to encourage them to join us at the matter. I am quite happy to accept it. table. Mrs. Carstalrs: Madam Deputy Speaker, the • (1350) reasons why the minister has given for why it is not 1370 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

the appropriate time was the review of The Public quickly and effectivelyin that it affects a number of Schools Act, which has been going on now for a school divisions? year, the Francophone schools governance issue, which has been going on now for two years, the Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): implementation of the High School Review, which Madam Deputy Speaker, in has been going on for three years, and the answering that question, I would like to say that the matters are in fact two separate matters. implementation of the new finance model whichwas proceeding prior to the last Speech from the Throne. In consultation with the educational stakeholders, Can the Minister of Education or perhaps the with school divisions and withparents who have let Premier-because she was not in the cabinet at that us know the pressure at the moment on the time-explain why they made a commitment to educational system, this government listened to review those boundaries on December 5, 1991 , them, and we said: I believe you. when all of those thingswere at that point going on? The issue of Francophone governance, Madam • (1355) Deputy Speaker, we are pleased to be moving ahead with in a very active way, and there will be an Mr. Fllmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, as I said, announcement soon regarding implementation. those matters are underway. Those matters all require a great deal of time,energy and commitment on the partof not only members of the staff ofthe Core Area lniUatlve Minister of Education and the department, but Renewal school divisions throughout the province. Teachers, resource people, administrators, school Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): My question is for board members are all involved and engaged in the the Minister of Urban Affairs. implementation ofall these many things. They can Last June the minister received federalproposals only be spread so thin in terms of implementing for a new Core Area Initiative. He was, he said, these changes and after discussion-and I invite the hopeful, and he said the province and the federal Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs), rather government were this close. Some weeks ago now, than do as she normally does, which is to impose he received a revised proposal from the federal from on high her judgment on the people in the government. It seems clear now that it is this education community, every other community, I government which is dragging itsheals on the future suggest to her that she do a littleconsultation with of the core area. those people and find out whether or not they wanted to have yet another potential major change My question for the minister is: Will he tell the imposed upon them at the same time as they are House exactly what the obstacles are in his view? coping with all of these otherchanges. Why is his governmentchoosing to stand in the way of such significantprogr ams? I am convinced from my consultations and discussions that theydid not at the present time. I Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs): invite her to once in a while get in touch with the Madam Deputy Speaker, I can advise my people out there who have to do those things. honourable friend, as I have on a number of occasions, that we are in the process of negotiating Mrs. Carstalrs: I will compare my list of with our two partners in this matter. educational stakeholders whom I have talkedto, to his list any day, and I will come out far ahead. The factof the matteris, though, Madam Deputy Speaker, that while we are reasonably close, I think, School Division Boundary Review to an agreement, we are not prepared to sign an Impact Francophone Governance agreement at any cost for the sake of signing an agreement. We want to have the best possible Mrs. Sharon Carstalrs (Leader of the Second agreement, and they will be the first ones to criticize Opposition): Madam Deputy Speake r, my if we signed an agreement that was not the best questionis to the Ministerof Education. possible agreement. We will continue to work Since the review of school division boundaries will toward that end. I am hopeful that within a short not take place, how does she believe that the issue period of time, we will have significant of Francophone governance can be dealt with announcements to make. March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1371

Ms. Friesen: Could the minister then tell the Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family House, give us a time table, when is he prepared to Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, from time to make a decision, so that the remaining employees time, we hear from opposition members the need to in the Core Area Initiative can stop packing their evaluate and look at training programs to assist bags? Will he in sum manage this transition in a people who are seeking employment. We have responsible and appropriate way? some successful programs that I couldte ll you about in that area. Mr. Ernst: Madam Deputy Speaker, the management of the Core Area offices, as a matter The Single Parent Job Access Program is one I of fact, has been managed in a most responsible would speak of that has graduated a number of way. We are not carrying on with large employee people into the work force. We also have the groups that have nought to do, whose jobs have Gateway program which assists young people in been completed. We are keeping a small staff there particular in retraining at a numberof areas to get to ensure ongoing programs are looked after. into the work force. We have taken the initiative with respect to the Simply, besides adding programs-andwe have core area immigration training programs, that they referred to the Partners with Youth program-we will in fact be kept on as skeleton staff. They will be also have to evaluate the programs that we have kept on for the next twomonths in anticipation of a and look at ones that are not as successfulas other new agreement. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is ones and reprioritize some of our spending and being well managed. some of our initiatives in that area. Ms. Friesen: Madam Deputy Speaker, could the One of the decisions we have made in this budget minister then tell the House in light of the Jess than is to look at the training plant in Selkirk. We feel that spectacular funding that we have seen for Core we can offer that service through the HROCs in Area Initiative in the past, what level of funding is he Winnipeg and Gimli and, at the same time, have proposing for the next Core Area? those people serviced in those areas and also put in place some new programs that we will be Mr. Ernst: Madam Deputy Speaker, almost $200 announcing in the not too distant future. million of taxpayers' money has been spent in the core of Winnipeg over the last 1 0 years. That is a Mr. Dewar: Everything is going to Gimli, Madam spectacular amount of money. Deputy Speaker.

The fact of the matteris at the moment we are in Service Expansion negotiations with respect to a subsequent agreement. That agreement, as I have said on a Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Will the minister number of occasions, is under consideration at the keep the Selkirk centre open, in fact expand moment. As soon as we have finalized that, I will services there, so we have some more trained be pleased to advise the House. workers in this province and fewer unemployed? • (1400) Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, again we hear Human Resources OpportunityCentre opposition members asking for expanded services, Closure expanded expenditures. When we looked at the pretend-budget that was brought down last Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Madam Deputy Tuesday, it called for only 5 percent additional Speaker, in the last budget, Selkirk was hit hard by expenditures in Family Services, almost 4 percent this government when it announced the closure of short of what our budget has in it. the School of Psychiatric Nursing without any That $20 million that they would not spend, I consultation. Now we find in this budget Selkirk is challenged the member for Brandon East (Mr. the only community to lose its Human Resources Leonard Evans) yesterday to Jet us know where they Opportunity Centre; again, no consultation. would not spend that money, whether they would My question is to the Minister of Family Services. take it out of training programs or whether they What criteria did this minister use besides an would take it out of daycare. I am sure the member electoral map when he made the wrong decision to for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) would not hear of that. close this centre? I suspect that there were a number of members 1372 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

concerned in putting that budget together, and we will go to the community organizations who need the have far, far surpassed the calls for spending in money most. Family Services. Volunteer Board Closure Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Will this minister Speaker, why did the minister not sit down with the table in the House any studies which demonstrate federation and discuss the problems that she had that Gimli is more cost effective than Selkirk? with their operations and suggest options for them Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family to reform instead of simply firing the volunteers? Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, we have a If she is using the administration costs, she number of effective programs, and I reference the entered into the agreement with the federation and Single Parent Job Access Program. [interjection] I knew full well what the administration costs were . see a former Minister of Education laughing at the You cannot use that, Madam Deputy Speaker- thought that there are effective programs in training Madam Deputy Speaker: people. I reference thatprogram and the Gateway Order, please. Does the member have a question? program. We do have human resource centres in a numberof areas of the province. We are going to Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, add new resources to job training, and we are Heritage and Citizenship): Madam Deputy reprioritizing some of the funding thatwe have in this Speaker, I realize full well that there are many, many area. volunteers within the heritage community andwithin all communitieswho dedicate and committheir time Manitoba Heritage Foundation to serving their interests and their needs, so I do Granting Authority nothing but commend volunteers for their Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy contribution. Speaker, this government and in particular the Madam Deputy Speaker, I have on occasion met Minister of Culture, Heritage andCitizenship do not with the Heritage federation as I have met with the support, apparently, volunteer organizations. We entire heritage community. We believe that the need to lookat this particularmi nister when she took processthat will be put in place to deliver funding to away the funding capabilities of the MIC and gave the heritage community will indeed serve the them to a politically appointed board. community well and be administratively less costly. Madam Deputy Speaker, while we were listening Mr. Lamoureux: The question quite simply to the to thebudget last week, the deputy minister met with minister is: Why doesshe not trust the volunteers the Heritage federation, and once again this in administering thisprogram? If the administration government has chosen to take away from the is the argument that she is basing the cutting out of volunteersthe fundingor thegranting authority from this particular organization of the volunteers, why the organization. does she not just simply sit down with these My question to the minister is: Can the minister volunteers and work out some sort of an tell this House why thegranting authority has been agreement- taken away from the Heritage federation? Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, questionhas been put. Heritage and Citizenship): Madam Deputy Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Deputy Speaker, I know Speaker, I will attemptto answer that question for that the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) has the critic from the second opposition party and been the critic for Culture, Heritage and Citizenship indicate that, in fact, theheritage community will be for several years now, and I believe this is the first served in a very reasonable and good way as a time he has ever asked a question on Heritage in result of the changes thatwere made. this House. I do not think he spent much time on There has been no reduction in the amount of Heritage issues through the Estimates process funding to the heritage community as a result of the either. So I would encourage him, like I know the decision. In fact, there may be more dollars critic from the NDP party does, to meet on occasion available, becausethe money that will bedistributed with members of the heritage community to attempt will not go as much toward administrative costsbut to understand the community and the needs of the March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1373

community, and then maybe he can ask some really minister. The federal government is phasingout its informed questions. assistance for the day haul of Manitoba workers. The vegetable growers employ large numbers of Vegetable Producing Industry workers from local reserves. If this occurs, we will U.S. Inspections have inadequate workers and at the same time aboriginal people will be deprived of their Mr. Edward Connery (Portage Ia Prairie): My employment. Will the minister vigorously lobby the question is to the Minister ofAgriculture. Manitoba federal government to reinstate this program fully? is a leader in Canada in high-quality vegetable production. Distributors in the United States want Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): our produce, but importers and exporters alike are Madam Deputy Speaker, yes. harassed by the United States Food and Drug Administration by putting loads under detention North American FreeTrade Agreement while they do residue testing. Impact Agricultural Industry This unfair trade practice ties up space in the wholesalers' coolers and ties up this fresh product. Mr. Edward Connery (PortageIa Prairie): My last They have never found a load unacceptable in their question, Madam Deputy Speaker. Free trade with testing. Mexico could be a disaster for Manitoba and e Can the minister inform this Legislature what Canada. Manitoba exports v ry little agricultural action he has taken as the federal governmenthas produce but imports of cheap-labour-produced taken none? vegetables could have a serious negative impact on Manitobans- Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Deputy Speaker, very clearly this is a very Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Does significant issue for the vegetable industry. Clearly the honourable member have a supplementary what the United States is doing is, in my mind, question? puttingin place nontarifftrade barriers. The normal Mr. Connery: -and especiallyabor iginal people. rate of inspection of vegetable loads going into the United States is 1 percent. Will the minister forcefully put forth Manitoba's concerns in regard to a free trade agreement with We found evidence in the last couple of months Mexico? that they are inspecting as many as 25 percent of the loads going into the Minneapolis market in Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): particular. It seems that the same trade harassment Madam Deputy Speaker, withregard to the Mexico does not occur for going to the Texas market or market, it is important for those who exportcanola, Chicago. those who export breeding stock,particularly bulls, * (1410) sometimes for swine. About less than 1 percent of our export market exists in Mexico, and we import I have sent a letter to the federal Minister of Trade less than 1 percent of our agricultural commodities back in August of last year. My officials met with from Mexico. It is a very small market. American officials in October of last year. I have again-becauseprobably have to say the increased I will take the member's concerns forward to any rate of inspections in the last two months-sent of the discussions I am involved in. another letterthis month asking the federal minister I would also like to remind members of this House to talk to his counterparts in the United States to be that the United States market has grownvery, very sure that we are not being harassed in this process, significantly for Manitoba agricultural exports. In although I would say, in my opinion, we are being 1987, we were exporting 14 percent of Manitoba harassed in the process of the rate of inspections agricultural exports to the United States. It is now applied to Manitoba produce going to the 32 percent. It is the highest market for us in the Minneapolis market. whole world. Second place at 12 percent is China. Third place is the old U.S.S.R. at 12 percent. The Federal Day Haul Worker Program United States is the big market, and that is what we Mr. Edward Connery (Portage Ia Prairie): My want to improve our position with in regard to the question, Madam Deputy Speaker, is to the same agreement we have in place. 1374 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Broadway House the positions that were being removed from Closure government, andthere is a process in place that is taking place at this time. Ms. BeckyBarrett (Wellington): Madam Deputy Speaker, last week the staff and residents of I had the privilege of meetingwith the Minister of Broadway House, a provincially operated transition Labour and members of the MGEA just yesterday home for women with mental disabilities, were to talk about thoseissues. The honourable Minister notified that this facility will be closed May 31 , with of Highways (Mr. Driedger) was in attendance. a loss of seven jobs. There seemed to be an understanding of the Did the Minister of Family Services consultwith process and a feeling that theprocess was working and that some substantial changes had taken place community groups such as the Association for Community Living or the Residential Coalition of which provided employment for people who Service Providers before he closed Broadway occupied some of those positions. House, or was it closed, as the staff of Broadway House was notified, to satisfy the Treasury Board Alternate Facilities requirements of decreased spending and Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Madam Deputy decreased services? Speaker, since the minister did not consult with Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family community groups beforehand and since those Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, the member seven people will be laid off, how can the minister references decreased spending and decreased assure the residents of Broadway House, the services. I would point out to her that this service providers in the community, that there department has thehig hest increase in spending of actually will be adequate appropriate facilities for any department across government, some 8.7 these women so they can live quality lives, or is it, percent increase in our budget. [interjection] as we know is the fact, that this facility was closed Well, the member wants to talk about social down and those people wer� allowances. We have brought in some very Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The innovative changes, greater reforms than the questionhas been put. previous NDP government ever brought in. We created a new program for the disabled. We Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family brought up the liquid assets levels, initiatives that Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, I can assure will my friend in theNDP has brought forwardfrequently. themember and the House that theresidents be There have been a tremendous number of reforms well taken care of in other facilities. Certainly the brought forward. providing of services is uppermost in our minds in thedepartment to be sure that appropriate services As far as working with the community to provide are provided for those people. programming for mentallyhandicapped people, we have had a number of working groups. We have Co-operative Housing some initiatives we are goingto bebringing forward. We have major legislation that we are bringing Federal Program forward that I have sharedwith the criticsof the other Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Deputy two parties. We have some very innovative things Speaker, co-operative housing provides affordable that are happening in that area. housing and a sense of community for 65,000 households in Canada. In December 1991 , the Employees' Status federal government made their Co-op Housing Ms. BeckyBarrett (Wellington): Madam Deputy Program a permanent program, yet in February in Speaker, what is the status of the seven staff at their budget they cut it completely in terms of Broadway House, several of whom who have funding. worked at that facility for over 1 0 years? Can the Minister of Housing tell us if he has Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family communicated with the federal Minister of Housing Services): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sure the to protest this arbitrary decision which will mean member listened very carefully to the Minister of fewer housing starts in Manitoba and fewer jobs in Labour (Mr. Praznik) when he discussed some of Manitoba? March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1375

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing): Yes, as full citizens in their own country. This marks a Madam Deputy Speaker. positive move not just for the citizens of South Mr. Martindale: I would hope that the minister Africa, but for human rights elsewhere. Aboriginal would share his communication with me. people, whether they live in Africa or other continents, are rightly celebrating this small step Constitutional Issues forward. Canadians should not feel smug about Housing Responsibility this. The record of the country has not been much better. We look forward to all South Africans being Mr.Doug Martindale(Burrows): Can the Minister treated equally. of Housing tell us what the policy of the provincial government is regarding the federal government's ORDERS OF THE DAY constitutional proposal to devolve responsibility for housing exclusively to the provinces, a proposal BUDGETDEBATE which is opposed by the Canadian Home Builders' Association, the Co-operative Housing Federation Madam Deputy Speaker: To resume adjourned of Canada and the Canadian Housing and Renewal debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Association? Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), standing in the name ofthe honourable member for Rossmere, who Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing): Madam has 11 minutes remaining. Deputy Speaker, the whole question of a strong central government, the fact thatwe need the dollars Mr. Harold Neufeld (Rossmere): Madam Deputy represented by a strong central government for Speaker, I am looking up in the gallery. I am sure programs such as this is one that our government Barb Biggar is up there some place, and I am sure has supported. We continue to supportthat. she is listening. Certainly we do not want to see the federal I am also sorry that the president of the MGEA left government offload a program such as before I had a chance to speak because, if time housing-where they pay currently 75 percent permits, I have a few suggestions for him. approximately of the subsidy costs of those housing Madam Deputy Speaker, I am one of the few units-onto the provinces at all, Madam Deputy people in here who can remember World War II. I Speaker. We have seen all too often in the past was 11 years old when the war started and 17years where programs such as that, while with great old when it finished. I can recall the way people promises in the beginning and appropriate dollar co-operated, the way that people worked together. backup for that, seemed to dwindle overa periodof There was no differential between races. There time. It is something that I do not think we want to was no differential between sexes. Everybody support at all. worked together. Those who were too young to buy • (1420) War Savings bonds bought War Savings Stamps. Madam Deputy Speaker: Time for Question Women knit socks. Everybody worked for a Period has expired. common goal. We have a common goal today. We have a war. Nonpolitical Statement It is not as great as the one that we had, but we have Mr. Elijah Harper (Rupertsland): May I ask leave a war. That is a deteriorating economy, and we of the House to make a nonpolitical statement? should work together. For some reason or other we pull apart and everyone goes their own way. Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable Everybody pulls at a piece of the government. member for Rupertsland have leave to make a Everybody wants more than their share. nonpolitical statement? Some Honourable Members: Leave. Madam Deputy Speaker, the lawyers are threatening to strike. Strike for what? Because Madam Deputy Speaker: Leave. Leave has they cannot get enough money, up to $200,000, been granted. they take out of this economy per lawyer-that is a Mr. Harper: Yesterday, South Africa took one maximum-and they want to strike. Ali i can say is, small step towards granting the majority of its is that all it takes? Let us give them less, and they population the right to vote and the right to betreated may strike. 1376 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Our justice system is suffering from the lawyers but to give someone a profit on a phantom who go to the courts for retrials and appeals. I investment. That is what we have done, Madam believe in justice, but the legal system is no longer Deputy Speaker. just. What differencedoes it make how evidence is obtained to whether a person is guilty or not? What I do believe that industry has to take its share of the blame for what has happened to us in the '90s. difference does it make whether or not he or she I think unions andlabour have to take their share of have had their rights read to whether he is guilty or the blame. Industry should have, in many cases, not? Guilt is not a matter of what the police officer denied the wage increases that were given. Labour has done to get the evidence or how he has been should not have asked for those wage increases. arrested-{inte�ection]If you have had your house But, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have to look broken into, is he guilty or is he not guilty? forward. How do we get out of the dilemma we are I do believe that a little common sense in the in? I suggest to you that we work together-labour, justice system would go a long way. I think that industry and government. some of the decisions which are handed down It is up to government to ensure that labour and qualify those who make the decisions for industry work together co-operatively. It is up to handicapped parking. government to bang heads together if they do not. Madam Deputy Speaker, let me talk a little bit It is up to governmentto ensure that its residentsare about what I think some of the causes of the properly looked after. It is up to government to recession have been. The excesses of the '80s is make sure that theindustry properly looksafter their a big cause. What were those excesses? workers. It is up to government to ensure that Leverage buy-outs was oneof them. Too many of industrycarries on in a manner that is going to make them; too much money was lent with too little Manitoba more progressive, that is going to make security and too many S & Ls went broke. Too Manitoba wealthy and that is going to make much money was spent on greed and not enough Manitoba a good place for us to live. money was spent on research, not enough money Industry is not alone in that. Labour has to take was spent on modernizingequipment. Those were its share of the blame as well. Labour has been some of theproblems. The Boeskys,the Mil kens of greedy and industry has been greedy. Let us stop the '80s are causing us a problem today. the greed andlet us look ahead. Let us look ahead Madam Deputy Speaker,I have anotherproblem and seewhat we can do to make Manitoba a better with the '80s. That was the era in which more and place. Do notask governmentfor helpat every tum. more industry came to government for grants. Why Do not say to government, you cannot layoff. Do did they ask for grants? They asked for grants not say to government, you have to pay more. Do because they were creating jobs. not say to government you need more grants for this or that charity ofyour own particular choice. There Madam Deputy Speaker, theywere creating jobs are too many self-interest groups that are working for their ownenrichment. They are not creating jobs for purposes which often seem only to enrich their for government and they should not come to own lives. government. Government should be there to help them and create a climate, and I challenge the I become upset when I see a headline like this, industry to go out and create jobs and to expand unmarried with taxes, unmarried couples will pay their businesses, not neccesarily with government millions more. Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, they help but with government help insofar as creatinga have been gettingaway with it for years. They want climate is concerned. I have no time for those who all the benefits given to those who are married, like believe that government is the answer to every one health benefits, like pension benefits, but do not of their problems, and that has been the case all too want to pay the same amount that married people often. pay. That is the kind of reporting we get in our papers today, totally false. I can talk about the help that has been given to the WinnipegJets. I very much opposethe help that There was a time-how much time have I got is being given the Winnipeg Jets. I was not at left?--{interjection)Madam Deputy Speaker, while I cabinet the day this was decided upon, but I find it was on vacation a month ago I was watching a talk obscene to give a grant not only to cover the losses show and on the talk show was a March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 13n

lieutenant-commander ofthe U.S. Navy. He was a that advice, and I hope you will follow it, and let us man about in his late 30s. He was black. He was forget about the fact that we are different out preaching to the young people of the United nationalities. Let us forget aboutthe fact that we are States that they should get up and work and not ask different colours or different sexes. for government help. Let us remember only that we are Canadians, and He said that if you want an education, go work for we have a common goal. We have a common goal your education. Work hard and you will get a 3.8 that Manitoba must improve. Manitoba must be and 4.0 grade point average, and you will get best and let us stop jabbing at one another and let bursaries and you will get scholarships, and if you us work together. cannot get a 3.8 and 4.0 grade point average, go out Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank you. to McDonald's and get a job, and you will get an education. Do not expect someone else to do it for Mr. Dave Chomlak (KIIdonan): Madam Deputy you. A phone call came in and the individual spoke Speaker, I welcome the opportunity of rising in this of African Americans, and the debate. I cannot help but, at the onset, to reflect on lieutenant-commander cut her offright away and some of the commentsof the member for Rossmere said, I am tired of all the names that I have been that I have heard in these few moments this called in the past. He says, I have been called a afternoon in the Chamber. I unfortunately did not Negro, I have been called black, I have been called have the opportunityto listen to all of his comments coloured, I have been an Afro-American and an from his previous comments yesterday, but they African American. He said, I am none of those certainly are indicative of the rather independent things, I am an American. If we could say that in this spirit the member has exhibited as a member of that country, if we could say that in this province-! am side of the government. a Canadian-butwe do not. Madam Deputy Speaker, I would hope that he • (1430) would take part of his message to his own caucus colleagues, because when he talks about grants to Madam Deputy Speaker, when I firstwent on the industries and grants to governments, members on job market, I could not call myself a Canadian. I that side of the House have instituted a process of insisted I was a Canadian and they would then ask, providing grants on an unparalleled training, on an do you speak any other language, and I admitted I unparalleled scale to private companies to provide spoke German, and they would then either discard training on a private basis. As they have done that, me or tell me to wait for a phone call. they have cut back the public components, the Now we have gone full circle. Nowwe are again public education system, something that has been to the point where we are not Canadians. We are held dear andclose to the heartsof all Manitobans. some kind of Canadians, but not Canadians. As they cut back the public system, and something all Manitobans generally have held to be important, I was told that I would have to work harder than anybodyelse because I was not Anglo-Saxon, when they have provided grants and initiatives to private I finally did get a job, and the person who told me industry to do private training. that had just retired from the army as a major. He Madam Deputy Speaker, in a consultation paper came around from the back of his desk, and he prepared by the federal government, Learning Well, shook my hand and he said, Harold, good luck. Living Well, the federal government says, and I That is the advice I give to those of you who think quote: A 1987 survey indicates that only one-third you are being discriminated against-work harder. of employers provide formal training for employees I can tell you it works. I became a chartered ranging from 27 percent of small firms to 92 percent accountant because I worked hard. I have been of large companies. president of the Manitoba Institute of Chartered What is happening, Madam Deputy Speaker, is Accountants and past governor of the Canadian not only are we subsidizing the training for these Institute of Chartered Accountants. firms, now we are resubsidizing, we are double That is not bragging. That is fact. I got that subsidizing these private firms to provide the because I listened to the major who told me, training that they have not provided. That is one of because you are German, you will have to work the major spending initiatives of this government in harder, and I respect that man to this day. I give you terms of they have talked about initiatives for private 1378 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

training, and that is outright grants to private Rrstly, in economic growth between 1990 to '91 companies, something that this member says in we have fallen from fifth to tenth. Dead last. In theory that he is so opposed to. Theyare providing employment growth, between 1990 to 1991 , we those grants at the expense of the public education have gone from fifth to eighth. In population, net system. interprovincial migration, we have gone from seventh in 1990 to eighth. In urban housing starts, They are providing to private companies like we were at eighth-nothing to be proud about-in Success/Angus, which members on that side are 1990, now we have dropped to ninth. quite familiar with, that are doing very well, thank you, charging $5,000 for a course that has been cut In building permits we have gone from seventh to from Red River that used to cost $500. What does eighth. In manufacturing shipments we were at that do to the poorstudent or the single parent who sixth in 1990, and we have dropped to the Tory level, seeks a job and who is looking for that retrainingand No. 10. In investment, we were around the middle who is working as hard as the member for Rossmere of the pack in 1990. We have dropped to near-Tory levels, eight out of 1 0. (Mr. Neufeld) says? What does that do to that student who has to pay $5,000 now as opposed to So, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is quite clear that $500 last year? the legacy of a federal Tory government, a worldwide recession and a provincial Tory I ask the member for Rossmere to take that into government have resulted in Manitobans seriously consideration when he talks about grants and feeling, far more than they had to, theeffects of this initiatives to companies and what government very serious recession. should be doing and what government should not be doing, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would hope I want to relate a few individual instances in my that he would take the same attitude with members own constituency to try to outline for members opposite the effect of these policies and the effect of his owncaucus as he takes in his discussionswith of these initiatives, unleadership, this lack of members of our House in his Budget Debate. leadership on the part of members opposite and Overall, I have spent some time trying to put this what it has done in my own constituency. budget into some kind of a perspective, Madam In the last month or two there have been two Deputy Speaker. I have read past budgets, and I constituents I have dealt with who have in fact lost have lookedat kind of the historyof the approach of their homes-foreclosure. One was a working budgets. I guess the best and most appropriate mother who lost her job, lived in the house for eight term or view that I could come up with to describe years. She lost her home-foreclosure. this government and this budget is "unleadership, w that this budget and this government is a classic Another was an individual who was on workers' example of unleadership. Thebudget can only be compensationwho was cut off, and he also lost his home. The families were put out of the house and looked at in the contextof the previous five budgets were forced to seek rental accommodations of this administration and, in particular,the budgets somewhere else as a result of foreclosures. since the last election. I have seen individuals who should qualify for At the onsetI would like to indicatethat I recognize home care who have had it cut off. I have an that there is a worldwide recession, but this individual in my constituency who talks to me province, the province thatI grew up in, the province regularly who is a double amputee, and he cannot that I have lived in, the provincethat I am raising my get home care despite the claims of the Minister of family in, Madam Deputy Speaker, used to be in the Health (Mr. Orchard) of the expanded home care middleof the pack in terms of the Canadian context. budget. What the Minister of Health fails to note, It used to be at the middle level, not below, not there is an expanded demand out there as above, but generally in the middle of the pack. demographics change. Now we have fallen far, far behind. One of the I walked up, several weeks ago, to the door of a reasons we have fallen far behind is because of home of a fellow who had lost his job that morning. policies initiated by this government. Let me cite It was not last week, it was not two weeks ago. Can some statisticalevidence to indicate why, to indicate you imagine the effect of walking to a door on a my point, Madam Deputy Speaker. sunny morning, and the fellow coming to the door March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1379

and almost being tearful and saying, oh, I have just the dishonesty inherent in the federal approach to lost my job. Every single week, when I go door health and higher education financing-repeated, knocking, there is not a street in my constituency unilateral reductions to transfers," et cetera. where I do not encounter individuals who are "We reject the dishonesty inherent." Madam unemployed, who have lost their jobs. These are Deputy Speaker, we on this side of the House, we individuals who have worked for a lifetime. reject the dishonesty inherent in the provincial In the old days, these are individuals-let us by government offloading, the offloading of taxes, the way of example, let me just for illustration-these inherent dishonesty, to use the words of the Minister individuals, who, if the plant would have shut down of Finance (Mr. Manness), in dealing with his federal at CN or the job would have cut back at CN, they counterparts. We reject that and this government would have gone to CP, something like that. Well, has done that over and over again. as our bases shut, Madam Deputy Speaker, they do not have these options, and as the effect of these Madam Deputy Speaker, the former Minister of policies in the worldwide recession has been felt, Education advised on the record in this House last these options have been closed on them. year that the education support level, the local propertytaxes for the education portion of property • (1440) taxes in this province increased by 1 0 percent last Madam Deputy Speaker, since the Finance year alone. That is following, I suspect, nearly minister (Mr. Manness) is present, I should point out double-digit increases the year before and nearly about three weeks ago on the doorstep a woman double-digit increases the year before. That is the who said to me: Can you not tell the government, offloading. That is the dishonesty that this Finance can they not see in front of their faces what is minister (Mr. Manness) accused the federal happening in this economy? Can they not put two government of doing. The very same thing is and two together? Do they not know what is happening out here? happening at the local level. I am only speaking, when I talked about the 10 percent rate, about the So I pass it on to the government. Do you not education portion,the special levy, which is the local know what is happening out there? level that is raised. An Honourable Member: How many new jobs are Madam Deputy Speaker, I cannot understand the created in your constituency by this budget? near hypocrisy of this government and its failure to Mr. Chomlak: The member for Transcona (Mr. recognize what its policies are doing in terms of the Reid) asked how many news jobs are created as a offload and the movement of taxes from the result of this budget. I dare say, there have provincial level to the local level. If this government probably been jobs lost as a result of this budget in was true to its word, it would simply state that fact. my constituency. It would make it very clear instead of offloadingand Madam Deputy Speaker, I have been on the then ducking the responsibility, and then, when doorstep and I have talked to hundreds, literally school boards and municipalities and divisions thousands of constituents. One of the interesting come back to the government, saying we are not trends that I have noticed is the number of adult responsible for it. I will use the words again of the children that are now being forced to stay at home. Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), this inherently As I indicated earlier, on every single street in my dishonest approach. constituency there are unemployed. Madam Deputy Speaker, this lack of leadership, Madam Deputy Speaker, over and over again, I this careening back and forth, I have been trying to hear about the scourge of taxes and what effect that get a fix on this provincial government in the last five has had on individuals. You know, the one budgets. touchstone that this government always returns to and comes back to, the one complete and utter One of my approaches is to put it into a phase, inaccuracy that the government often refers to is the into a chronology. We have the '88 to '90 period, question of taxation. I want to quote from the when we had a minority Tory government. Now, at Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) in his 1991 that point we had a government that was always in budget, and I am quoting from the minister's potential of dropping, and then we saw the sort of address, page 7 where he says, qu ote, "We reject classic Manitoba mold of a government, a 1380 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

somewhat responsive, somewhat progressive budget. They laughed when we raised these government. concerns. There is no question that thatgo vernment was far (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Acting Speaker, in the more responsive and far more progressive than Chair) what we have today, certainly. So we have that first But you know what, when we filled up our caucus phase, and that was political expediency totally. room with people who were suffering the effects of The members of the caucus that are far more this High School Bursary cut, all of a sudden the idealistic on that side of the House were kept in laughter turned. When we called press check. conferences, when the media was alerted, when the Then we had the 1990 election, the man-in- the­ Minister of Education admitted that he had made a boat election, and we saw the real government. We mistake, when the Minister of Education admitted saw the emergence of the real Tory government, he had not consulted with the Minister of Family and that is whenwe saw, as reflected by the memo Servicesin the cutback on the High School Bursary that was sentout by the Tory fundraisers to deal with Program, all of a sudden the laughter turned to the hidden agenda of the Tory party, that was a seriousness, and the governmentsat in their cabinet slash-and-cut Tory government. room, and they looked around the table, and they That was theone where the Minister of Finance said, hey, where is Mike? Where are our latest was let loose, and the ideolog ues in the polls? They looked aroundand they said, now what Conservativeparty were let looseto dothe kinds of are we going to do? They looked around and they things that Tories love to do best, where they can saw that there was a reaction. They had thought emulate their federal cousins and their federal that they could get away with this cut. Theysaw that counterparts, and do what Tories do best. I will at they could get away with the slashing of the High least give themcredit for consistency. The Minister School Bursary Program like they thought they of Finance (Mr. Manness) has been consistent in could get away with the cut to English as a Second that policy. Language, but we didnot let them dothat. Althoughhis ascendancywas somewhat in wane I should not take credit for it, we should not take between '88to '90 because ofthe fact that he was credit for it. It was the people of the province who held in check by a minority government, once 1990 were affected. It was those students who came to came through, bango, that was it. That was their us, it was they who managed, who forced this chance to do it. Now, what has occurredas a result government to back down. Nothing was more of that is a sort of flip-flop. Now theyare uncertain. illustrative than the fact that we had a press conference at ten o'clock in the morning and at The public out there has said, hey, wait a minute. 11:30 that very same day, all of a sudden, the We do notlike this Tory government. We do not like minister was reinstating a portionof the program. this mean spirit. We do not like this lack of any kind of government, the stand-aside government, this I am thankful that he listened, and actually I will lack-of-initiative government. We do not like a lot of give them credit for that, but that is illustrative of this these cuts. We do not like what we see. careening government, careening from side to side or from place to place. While I am on it, let me talk So we have seen this government go from a sort about the school boundaries review introduced with of a moderate approach, to slash-and-cut, to now great fanfare in two separate budgets. unleadership; they have sort ofbacked off;they kind of do not knowwhat to do. A strong commitment of the member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach), the minister. He You know, there is something quite illustrative, used to chastise the former Minister of Education and I just wantto point this out, of thegove rnment's this side for not having the political will and the approach, and that is to deal with the High School political courage to push it through, but by gosh he Bursary Program. When the High School Bursary was going to push it through. Program was cut in the last budget, and we raised it on this side of the House, we raised it amidst • (1450) guffaws and amidst groans and laughing from Mr. Acting Speaker, the government had the members on the opposite side of the House-you support of all three parties to do a review. There know, this is our budget, this is our cut-and-slash was no question. There were resolutions that came March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1381

by in this House. Therewas an amendment to The the election, then Clayton you can have control .of Public Schools Act last session that dealt with the the car. You take care of the steering wheel, it is.all boundaries review. yours. Nineteen-ninety came, Clayton jumped in there, and all ofhis Tory- There was no question that members were in agreement that some kind of review could take The Acting Speaker (Mr. Laurendeau): Order, place, but what kind of review would take place? please. That is what caused this government great difficulty I would like to remindthe honourable member that for when it was leaked out, for when it became public all honourable members shall be nameless. that what this government intended to do would be to slash school boundaries in the city of Winnipeg Mr. Chomlak: I apologize. The Minister of without consultation, to postpone elections of all Finance (Mr. Manness) jumped in there, got control things, because they could not get their acttog ether. of that steering wheel, Mr. Acting Speaker, and he took off with that car. He took off with that car so When that came about, when the public heard fast he left some of his Tory members behind that this government was going to undemocratically scratching their heads saying, where is this car postpone elections, when the public heard that this going? Then we heard the response from the government was going to slash boundaries and public, and now they are all trying to jump back in move them about without consultation, then the and take control of that car and trying to steer it. chickens came home to roost. Then this That is why it is kind of unleadership. They are government stepped back and said, oh, my gosh, trying to get some control on that car. have we got ourselves in a political-now, had they proceeded under a proper agenda, perhaps the So we see this change in direction,this change in matter could have been dealt with, but it was already initiative and this flip-flop on policy, some of which too late. Already the communities out there were we agree with, frankly, because they should have alarmed, already thepublic was up in arms. done it in the first place, and some of it which we do not agree with, Mr. Acting Speaker. That is why What was this government going to do? Were they sortof try and get the car back into the groove, they going to cut the size again and see salaries back to those sort of '88-90 grooves. Members of double? Were they going to really save this House know of what I am speaking, I am quite efficiencies? What was this government doing? certain, because in fact the evidence is clear that is When the government discovered that they had what is happening in terms of this government and bungled this great initiative of the former Minister of this budget. Education, they backed off. Mr. Acting Speaker, the funding model, I want to Frankly, given the boundaries review that they talk about the funding model for a moment or two, were going to implement, I would rather see no because it has been something that we on this side boundaries review. We made that quite clear. of the House have spent considerable time on in Given what we knew that this government was going discussing with members opposite and providing to do, when we saw that, we said no way we could suggestions. You know, the funding model is support that kind of lack of direction, lack of another example of this careening vehicle sort of consultation, lack of basic democratic values. So I floating all over the place. For a while the former can only say that we have moved from one phase Ministerof Education had his hand on that steering to another phase to another phase, and now we wheel, but it has been taken off and now it is sort have a government that is sort of careening back of-we do not know quite what the direction is. and forth. For four years the funding model was studied. The analogy I have is a car that is out of control, There was an advisory committee, and we and everyone is jumping for the steering wheel. For supportedthat concept. There was a long-standing a while, it was the Premier (Mr. Filmon)who had his tradition in Manitoba to have a minister of advisory hand on the steering wheel from '88-90. There were committees. What was not a long-standing tradition a few people backing him up, and there was Mike in in Manitoba history was to keep the report of the there, and they were just careening along. The advisory committee secret. That is what this Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) was reaching government did. They kept the report of the over, and they said, no wait, wait till 1990, wait till advisory committeesecret. 1382 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

The minister promisedme in the House, promised using an excuse of the funding model when the us in the House on many occasions that report minister before frequently said in the House, would be released so that the public could consult everythingwas fine on the funding model. and deal with the funding model. Mr. Acting We will continue to press on the funding model. Speaker, he promised me at Christmas 1990. Then We will continue to press on this government to deal he promised me at Christmas 1991 , and then he with education equitably, and there will be much promised the summer of 1991 . He got the report more said on that, I can assure members of this June 4 and nothing happened. I kept asking the minister. I kept asking the minister not only in the House, by members on this side of the House when House, but I asked the minister in the hallway, we get to the Estimates of the Education personally, when are you going to release the department. report? He never did. Then he came out with his Mr. Acting Speaker, I get the impression the last funding announcement in October. In fact, it was week that members on that side of the House, the Halloween, and he came out with his funding Premier in particular, were offended by criticisms of announcement. We had warned him of the dangers the budget. I cannot help but remark for several of that funding model andwhat would happen. days before the budget was released, members on Mr. Acting Speaker, the former minister said that that side of the House were really quite confident, we were only fearmongering, the usual response, and I was expecting some kind of blockbuster and that the NDP was engaging in trick or treating. budget that was somehow going to do more than You know what? What did he do after that? He stand aside. I was as disappointed as I usually am changed the funding model to reflect some of our with respect to the Tory budget, but I do not know concerns. Then what did he do after that? He where the basis for the false confidence of members changed it again. Then what happened? The opposite was in the days preceding the budget. Premier (Mr. Almon) changed the minister. Then I do not know why the Premier expectedanything what happened? The new minister changed the but criticism. I do not know why members on that model again. The model is still being changed side of the House, the Premier in particular, are so because that model has some serious problems, offended when we dare to criticize this budget, some serious flaws, and we warned them about because we owe it to the people of Manitoba. We that. owe it to the 52,000 people who are unemployed We warned them, Mr. Acting Speaker, that if the that are looking for some kind of action from this model was imposed as it was it would result in government,and there is none. I do not know what massive job losses,and we are seeing that. We are members on that side of the House expected or seeing in twodivisions alone over 1 00 jobs lost. We even desired from this government. told them there would be program cuts. In Another interesting point, Mr. Acting Speaker, Transcona-Springfield alone, as a result of the funding model-and presumably Transcona­ while I am on that point, was I guess I am surprised Springfleld was one of the "winners in the funding why members have not been more responsive to model"-eight programs were cut. We have seen queries from the public. Even last spring, members programs cut, I dare say, probably in the hundreds on that side of the House were confidentially going across the province, and the inequity that is built on out door knocking around the city of Winnipeg. In a foundation of inequity continues. fact, they were in my own riding. They have been on very many streets. They either preceded me or The Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey) has told followed me on very many streets. me time and time again in this House in the last couple of weeks that the funding model is working I guess I find it curious, because they have been fine. Yet yesterday at her announcement to on streets where the Minister of Finance (Mr. extricate themselves from the school boundary Manness) was laughed out of the home. The review she said one of the reasons for doing it was people next door told me that they could hear that because of the assessment of the funding model. he was coming to their home, because there was That strikes me as a tiny bit contradictory,Mr. Acting the laughter and the anger from members in that Speaker, because what they are doing is using the house yelling. That was a poll, I should indicate, very excuse that the minister had said. They are that voted for members opposite. March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1383

I do not know what members expected when at Just with respect to training, I wantto cite a few another door they went to an individual who had just of the quotes that bring facts to bear on this whole been laid off by this government, in fact, by the question of training because, frankly, I am tired of Minister of Justice, the AttorneyGeneral, and what hearing governmentsand people say that we need was the reaction, Mr. Acting Speaker? What has more training. My question to them is: In what, been the response? All of these reactions, where where and how? I mean, let us get down to brass have they taken them? Where have they deposited tacks. Let them not just talk rhetoric. this response in their repertoire, as they sat around With respect to this challenge, I want to quote: the cabinet table and tried to determine where they Even while we confront jobless rates of nearly 8 were going? What effect has that door knocking percent-if it were only that low-the job vacancy had on them? I am afraid it has not had very much. rates of jobs that cannot be filled with the right qualifications is the highest in nearly 20 years. * (1500) There are 600,000 job vacancies in an economy They talk fondly about how much more money with almost one million unemployed. they are spending on education, and I looked back I have already quoted the fact that-no, I have not into the 1990 budget-and I have many more quoted it: Private industry spendsonly 0.3 percent statistics which I will be citing during the Estimates of our gross domestic product on training. The process, as I normally do-and noted that the rough comparable figure in the United States is over proportion of expenditures of Education in 1990 twicethat. Australians invest three timesmore than were 18.2 percent of the total provincial that; the Japanese, overfive times; and Germans, expenditures,and this year, twoyears later and after nearly eight times more. a considerable amount of inflation and the like, the Let me quote also from this federal government total of the Education expenditures, a proportion of document: Australia is encouraging greater private the total provincial budget, is up to 18.3 percent. sectortr aining through a tax on nontrainers. France That is one percent of an increase over two years. has a system of paid educational leave and is For a government that supposedly made promoting greater enterprise. education a priority, I cannot understand that I will be tying this all together to the context of my I approach, and do not think the public of Manitoba comments, but the point, Mr. Acting Speaker, is that does either. I do not think the public of Manitoba we publish paper after paper after paper; we have has any confidence any longer, if they ever did-and throne speech after throne speech after throne they might have had at one time-in this speech; we have government initiative or lack government, with respect to its approach to thereof, constantly talking about the need for education and the future of education. The era of training and setting up the job bank and the whole unleadership, the era of floating around, careening like, and we have no action. back and forth, is upon us in education as well. We have had no action from this government for I must tum to one of the areas that the government several years. I know for a fact that they have sat has flown up the flagpole in a couple of Throne around the cabinet table again and said, hey, Mike, Speech Debates, and we keep waiting for initiatives, we have to get this put together, and Mike has gone and that is the area of training. Every one in this off and he has the Department of Education working House, every government and almost every like crazy to produce what should have been individual in Canada has heard over and over again, produced two years ago, their job inventory and their ad nauseam, I would dare say, about the need for matching of jobs and job programs. Members training in our country and in our province. That is opposite know that. They know they are way in fact one of the keys to the future. behind their schedule. They are way behind their itinerary. What I would like to do is just read in a couple of An Honourable Member: Who is this Mike guy? quotes, again from a Tory government publication. Frankly, it does not lay out a framework, but it does Mr. Chomlak: Mike Bessey. have some useful statistics, and that is the They sat around the table and they got Mike to do consultation paper of Learning Well, Living Well that and Mike is on their back and they are cranking produced by the Government of Canada. out those statistics. They are doing that, Mr. Acting 1384 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Speaker, because they do not have an inventory, will be to go towards a level playing field, but it will they do not have a basis upon which they are be the lower level playing field, to lower our making these spending decisions, these allocations conditions, to lower all of our standards down of millions of dollars to private companies, with no towards the Mexican level. That is the fire that criteria, no evaluation, no overall plan tied into it. members on the opposite side of the House are That is the greatest-it is probably the worst of all playing with. They did not know what they were worlds. They are probably better off doing nothing playing with in the Mulroney Free Trade Agreement than doing something that is as ill-founded on the that we got burned andbu rned badly and now they basis of no empirical data. That is what they are are dabbling in it again. They are just sort of doing. attracted by that light, the brightness. They are just We could accept an initiative that had at least running after it again and they are not taking a stand. some kind of empirical basis and some kind of The result is going to be that we are going to find direction. They are not doing it. They are way ourselves locked into another agreement that is behind. They are trying to put it together and we are going to lower standards on this side of the border anticipating, we are waiting for the massive, the and is going to result in more difficulty for great announcement sometime down the road. Canadians, not less. What they have done is they have allocated millions Members do not seem to realize that on the of dollars. They are running off money to these oppositeside of the House. We will raise it over and companies. No one knows where they are going, over again, although I think the member for Portage how they are doing it, in fact who is doing it. Ia Prairie (Mr. Connery) is aware of some of the We are still waiting for a concrete training policy, dangers and raised them today in Question Period. a training proposal from this government despite • (1 51 0) flowery words in the throne speech on several occasions. Members opposite know that is the I could go on, Mr. Acting Speaker, at great length case. That is what bothers me about the training about the lack of government initiatives on the initiatives or the lack of training initiatives of Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. You know, it is very members on that side of the government because curious. During the Estimates process on Justice they have swallowed hook, line and sinker the the last several years, every time we would ask the rhetoric that we have heard around, but there has Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae), what about the been no action and there is no plan and we are still Aboriginal Justice lnquiry?--he would retort, just awaiting it. wait until the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry is launched and then you will see action. Over and over again The free trade agreement with Mexico that this we heard that. When that report comesdown you government is sort of-we are not quite certainwhat will see action. I believe he said to the member for this government is doing other thanthe fact that the The Pas (Mr. Lathlin), when that reportcomes down Premier (Mr. Filmon) has on one occasion said he you will be pleasantly surprised. Still we see no is opposed to it and now he says he is sort of action. opposed to it with conditions, and what are those conditions. It smacks of the debate on the GST. In We see no initiative on the Aboriginal Justice retrospect now, the members on that side of the Inquiry. In fact, we see retroactive steps. We see House were opposedto theGST. We barely heard backward steps by this government. We see the their voices during the debate about that tax. It is minister talking about a million dollars in programs the same thing on the free trade debate with Mexico. in his suitcase. We do not know what it is and, like so many things in this government, it is all tied up in American and Canadian companies are not PR and it is all tied up in crisis management, crisis interested in the Mexican market, Mr. Acting control, which is a large part of why that car is Speaker. What they are interested in is cheap careening about and why we have a lack of Mexican labour and its low wages. Not only does It unleadership by members on that side of the House. have low wages, but it has health and safety conditions called by the Wall Street Journal I have a number of initiatives I would like to abysmal. What the effectand what this government propose in termsof alternatives. I will wait and I will and what this overall philosophy of the support of suggest most of those, because a lot of them are the free trade agreement will do will be to-yes, it related to Education, during the Estimates process. March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1385

I will outline to members opposite some of our I have listened to the opposition as they have sat alternative views and some of our vision in terms of in this House day after day since the budget was Education as promised, Mr. Acting Speaker. announced and have been very critical. I just Thank you very much for the opportunity of listened to some 40 minutes of the member for addressing the Budget Debate. Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) negatively spouting his comments about all of the wrong things this Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, government is doing. I did not hear in that 40 Heritage and Citizenship): Mr. Acting Speaker, it minutes one positive thing or one positive is indeed a pleasure for me to stand and speak on suggestion on how in fact he, if he were in this government's fifth budget in a row that has government, was going to make a difference or looked to the people of Manitoba to give us advice make a change or make anything better. I have on what they want to see their government do. listenedfor several days to opposition parties, both I am sure that most members of the House as they opposition parties, that have not- have been out visiting with their constituents and An Honourable Member: Oh now, be nice. listening to what their constituents have to say have clearly heard time and time again that people in Mrs. Mitchelson: Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, Manitoba are fed up of paying taxes. Theyare tired we have not as yet heard, I do not think, from the of being taxed to death. I mean, we hear even more member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry), but I am sure, criticism of Winnipeg City Council right now and the because I knowthat he does have some common kind of pressure they are under and the tax revolt sense and some understanding, and I know that he that is going around in Winnipeg. listens-{interjection) Well, he must. I am sure that he has listened to his constituentsand that when he We know that people, especially in tough sees something that this government is doing that economic times, do not want to see governments is a positive decision that he will supportthat. I am spending above their means year afteryear. We all looking forward with interest to hearing his know even in our own household, Mr. Acting comments and maybe even his approval of this Speaker, that we cannot spend more year after year budget when he speaks a little later today. than what we earn, because as a result of that we build up a debt and a deficit and eventually lose Madam Deputy Speaker, I feel it important in this everything. budget this year to put several comments on the recordabout the different responsibilities that I have (Madam Deputy Speaker in the Chair) in my portfolio, no one area of responsibility any less Madam Deputy Speaker, we as a government important than another. The newest, I have made a firm commitment to Manitobans that suppose-well, let me start with my responsibility as we will attempt to keep taxes down and to keep more Minister responsible for the Status of Women and money in people's pockets so they can choose how indicate how proud I am as a minister to follow in the to spend their money. I think we have attempted footstepsof the former minister, Gerrie Hammond, over the last several budgets to deal in a very who was the Minister responsible for the Status of common-sense way and act fiscally responsible yet Women before I took over. I worried that I would not maintain the servicesth at are greatly needed on the be able to fill those shoes, because I think that social side of things for people that need human Gerrie Hammond left a record for this government services. and for the women in Manitoba, a record that we can Madam Deputy Speaker, I am pleased and proud all be very proud of . She started, even before she to be a part of a government under the leadership became a minister, to travel throughout the province of our Premier, Gary Filmon, and my colleague the and listen to women and women's issues through Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) who has brought the Women's Initiative back in 1988. As a result of in the fifth budget in a row that has not increased that Women's Initiative, I believe that we have personal taxes. There have been virtually no new accomplished much. taxes as a result of this budget. I think the people As a result of her consultations, as a result of what of Manitoba, generally speaking, are happy, and I the women of Manitoba told our government, we know that my constituents are presenting to me were able to respond in many positive ways. We some very positive feedback on the kinds of were able to look at the issue of family violence, and initiatives this government has taken. increase the number of wife abuse shelters in the 1386 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

province from three shelters to 11 shelters, and I needed support and help and guidance. I was think over a period of four years that is something angry, Madam Deputy Speaker, at what I heard, and that we ca!"l--,-rlot that we want to be proud of anyone you know, I feel that at times I have led a very that promotes or condones family violence, but we shelteredlife in a very safecom munity and have not do want to be able to provide the servicesto those been exposedor have not heard the kinds of stories women and to those children who so desperately that I heard those days. Madam Deputy Speaker, need that kind of service at a very critical and the problem is overwhelming, and I do know that the unfortunate time in their lives. women are standing up today and they are saying We also increased funding to crisis lines that we are not going to tolerate this. throughout the province. We ran an Abuse is a On International Women's Day, we announced Crime campaign, which was a very successful our aboriginal women's policy, Speaking to the educational tool in informing all Manitobans of the Future, and had great support from the aboriginal issue of violence and how we as a province and a women's community for that policy. government would not tolerate that violence. We have had great success with our family violence As I attended other activities and functions that court, and the length of time that it takes to hear day, I went over to the Immigrant Women's issues of concern on family violence. Association. I guess my feeling and my sense of accomplishment in dealing in partnership with the Madam Deputy Speaker, we have increased aboriginal women and coming forward with the substantially fundingto our wife abuse shelters, and policy that they are excited about and supportiveof, I know that the Minister of Family Services (Mr. I felt that I could not help but share that policy too Gilleshammer) will have some announcements to with the immigrant women. make shortly as a result of this year's budget that will be very positive, and in no small part as a result I said thatabuse crosses all cultures and all parts of some of the people that the Minister of Family of our Manitoba society. It is importantthat women Services has surrounded himself with. One of from all backgrounds and all cultures work together these people, of course, is Marlene Bertrand, who in partnership, because together we have strength, is the former director ofOsborne House, the largest Madam Deputy Speaker. Together we can try to shelter in the province of Manitoba. overcome some of the problems that exist and in that way have a better life for all women in Manitoba . • (1520) AsI was speaking, therewere nods,positive head Madam Deputy Speaker, as a result of the good nods around the room from women there who felt people giving goodadvice to the Minister of Family that this was an issue that crossed all of Manitoba Services (Mr. Gilleshammer), I have difficulty society. I know that a commitment is there from the believing thatthe opposition could not be pleased with some of the announcements that will be made women in our province to work together, to speak in the near future. We as a government were the out and to try to deal in a positive way with some of first government to provide Core funding to the the violent issues that are facing us today right here Indigenous Women's Collective, a Native umbrella in Manitoba. organization that speaks on behalf of many So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe we have aboriginal women throughoutthe province, and we come a long way. I do know there is a lot more to are proud of that. do, and we have a commitment through the I have come to understand and respect the Women's Directorate, through the advisory council. women in the aboriginal community greatly over the We will continue to work forward and deal with last number of months. I have said in this House issues that affect women and try to deal with them before, andI will repeat again, that, as I travelledup in a very positive way so that someday we may not north and met with women in some of the northern have to have within government a Women's and more remote communities, I listened and was Directorate or an advisory council that deals appalled to hear theirstories. I heard, and I listened specifically with issues, because I believe we are to, and I cried with those women who told me of the working toward a mind-set within society that, you circumstances that they and their children were know,women's issues are not just women's issues, subjected to, and how they really felt that they but they are society's issues and all of society. March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1387

I know quite frankly I am in a minority, as are some we know that we have made them very high priority of the other female colleagues in this House. In the funding. We have made decisions to put those Legislature there are 11 of us out of 57 members. I departments high on our priority list as well as do know that we have five women members that sit economic development. around our caucus table, three around the cabinet I am pleased to say thatwithin the Departmentof table, and I will tell you that unless we had the full Culture, Heritage and Citizenship, that I think this co-operation of our male colleagues that sat around year we have done well and that we recognize as a that table, we would not accomplish anything. So I government that not all of the money that we can think there has to be, and I knowthere has to that be spend and can allocate can goto Health, Education co-operative workingrelations hip. I do know that all and Family Services, but that there has to be a colleagues who sit around our caucus table have quality of life around the provi nce, too, and that issues and concernsthat affectwomen and children culture, that heritage, that immigration and that at heart. We will make the right decisions for the recreation do contribute in a very positive way to our right reasons, working in partnership, men and quality of life. We were able to maintain many of the women, to accomplish these goals. programs and redirectand restructure things within Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to move on the department, in fact, so that we will even beable now to some other areas of responsibility, to deliver service better to those communities that responsibility that I have concerning many we represent. Manitobans in the culture, heritage, recreation, We do know too that our culture and the arts in citizenship parts of the department, a very varied our province can contribute in a very positive way to responsibility. I know the former minister is in the the economy, to tourism, as well as to the quality of House listening, and I thinkshe will agree that it is life, but at times it is important to review what our an extremely busy portfolio. priorities are, to redirect resources within You seem like you are torn in many different departments, to change the emphasis and to revise directionswith many differentdemands, not only on existing programs and create new initiatives. your time to make policy decisions and set direction, Needs change as people change and as but also, if I might say, on the social side of things, communities change. I think that we have been because the activities and the invitations that I able to try to move and make changes where receive as minister-and I know she did too-tear necessary based on the needs of the communities you in many different directions, and you just cannot that we serve. possibly bein all places at all times and accept every The one area that I inherited last year was the invitation. Citizenship Division, it was movedover. We took a I do want to thank my colleagues who sit in the bit of Immigrant ACCESS from the Department of Legislature with me in government for their support, Family Services. We got Adult ESL and the because I do know that many, many times many of Working Group on Immigrant Credentials from the them have come through and been able to attend Department of Education and brought them all activities and functions that I have not been able to under one umbrella within the Department of be at because I could not be in two places at one Culture, Heritage and Citizenship. time. I want to thank them for their co-operation and * (1530) for their work on behalf of culture, heritage, recreation and citizenship in this province. We have looked at the best ways that we could utilize the resources that came to us to structure a Not only do we deal with those areas of division that would meet the needs of new programming, but we deal with the cultural immigrants coming to Canada, and those institutions toothat we support. In tough economic immigrants who had only been here for a short times and when government has to set priorities, we period of time and needed the kind of services that look at health care. We have made major we had to offer. commitments to health care, a 5.7 percent increase or $1 01 million this year in the budget. We have As a result of the Working Group on Immigrant increased Family Services by 8.7 percent and Credentials and the report that we received just a Education by 5.5 percent. Madam Deputy Speaker, month or so ago, we have been able to restructure we know that Manitobans want those services, and this division within our department I think in a very 1388 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

positive way to attempt to serve the community and three differentprograms that involve different detail the community needs. I will not gointo a lot of detail, and an awful lot of time commitment. because I think I made a fairly lengthy statement in We now have attempted to structure it so that the House the other day that dealt with the either the Arts Council, the Multicultural Grants Credentials and labour Market Branch within the Council, or the Arts branch will be responsible for division. funding one organization totally. That will in fact cut We nowhave a policy branch that will be dealing down on the volunteer time which will need to be very proactively with the immigration policy, the spent by many organizations and many boards in bilateral policy that we are looking at formulating trying to access government funding, and it will cut with the federal government. We have an ESL adult down on the bureaucracy that is needed within language training and access branch within the government and within those organizations to try to division and also a Citizenship Branch that will deal help communities and community organizations with the granting programs that are available to help accessthe system. immigrants access the kinds of services they I believe we have come up with a structure that is deserve, and they need to become productive going to be of benefit to the arts community as a members ofManitoba's society. result. I am looking forward with anticipation to the Another area that we as a government have made positive work that can be done as a result of the a major commitment to in my department is in restructuring in this area. I suppose I always need funding for capital within our arts institutions. to be looking at challenges in dealing with the Before we took over as government, most of our communities that we attempt to effectively serve. cultural institutionsare well over 20 years old now, One area that I would like to talk about also is the had been built and then somewhat forgotten. Total arts in Manitoba. I think our commitment has been budget whenI took over as minister for many, many shown. When we firstcame to government,when I years for capital upgrading of our facilitieswas some first took over this responsibility, after1 0 years of no $200,000 per year. formal arts policy, we undertook an Arts Policy Madam Deputy Speaker, when you have got Review. We realized and recognized that times several buildings, like the museum, like the concert change, needs change, and it was time to take a hall, like the art gallery, that are over 20 years old, look at and review arts and arts funding in the $200,000 does not go a long way to make major province, I guess, to best utilize the public resources improvements. We have over the last few years and look at how the public and private sector could attemptedto upgrade those facilitiesto a quality that work together to ensure that we had the most vibrant will serve the arts community that uses those community we could possibly offerto Manitobans. facilities. In response to that Arts Policy Review, therewere I am pleased to say that we have another $4 several recommendations, some we were able to million in the budget this year to do the badly needed act on immediately and others that have taken a little work on the Museum of Man and Nature and the longer. One of the recommendations that was in Concert Hall. that ArtsPolicy Review was to restructure within our We have also in this budget managed to find an branch the artsfunding. As a result ofthat, this year increase in funding for our cultural industries in the in the budget processwe have been able to develop film and sound production areas. I am extremely an Arts branch, which will no longer be a Cultural pleased and proud, when under the former Resources branch, but it will be an Arts branch. administration, we did have a cost-shared We have worked together with the Manitoba Arts federal-provincial ERDA agreement on culture, and Council, with the Multicultural Grants Council, and as that agreement ended, Madam Deputy Speaker, with the department to try to streamline the process the federal government has pulled their funding out so that many of the organizations out there do not of cultural industries year by year. have to go to three differentsources of funding. I know that our government has a major It means less bureaucratic red tape because commitment, because we do know what the film when an organization has to apply to three different industry and what the sound recording industry can areas to get funding,they have to usually apply to do and have done for our province. I am really March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1389

pleased to see that in these difficult economic times recreation policy which outlined government's we have been able to find some extra money to keep commitment and our recognition of the importance our cultural industries viable. of recreation. As a result of that policy If I can just talk about what cultural industries have announcement we were able to replace the done for Manitoba, last year alone $8 million was recreation district program, which had been in place spent on independent film and sound production since 1 972 and was not meeting the demands of the throughout the province. It creates jobs and there recreation community today. We were able to is economic spinoff in many of our small announce a restructuring of that grant program to communities as a result of the films that have been better serve the communities throughout the produced throughout our province. province of Manitoba. Since I made that announcement last fall, I am pleased to say that the I know that my colleague the MLA for Turtle community throughout the province of Manitoba has Mountain (Mr. Rose) would be interested, and I am received that policy well and is looking forward to sure he does know that there is a film crew presently the implementation and the changes in the working in his constituency near Souris. The film recreation district program. will be a $3-million television production of a Manitoba novelist Margaret Laurence's book, The We are also in the recreationarea extendingthe Diviners. research agreement that we entered into with the University of Manitoba three years ago. It has been I am pleased and proud. Here we have a film a very successful agreement, and we are going to crew working in Manitoba, producing a movie in a continue that on for another two years to look at local community in southwestern Manitoba based recreation trends and issues throughout the on a book by a Manitoba author. So I think we have province. much to be proud of in our Manitoba community in the area of film, sound, writing, and the talent that I am pleased to say, too,that we will becontinuing works in our province as a result of the film industry with the Northern Recreation Directors Program, being so successful. which was originally designed as a two-year pilot project. It is due to end in the fall of 1992. I am * (1540) really pleased to say that as a result of this program, In this budget, too, we are also following up on this pilot project, I believe that we have been able to some of the promises we have made to the train some22 or so recreation directors, trainedfrom multicultural community in the last year that will communities in theNorth to go back to communities benefit our newcomers as well. We, as a result of in the North and provide the very needed services the multicultural policy, put in place a secretariatthat in those communities. I am pleased to say that in would deal intergovernmentally with the issues that conjunction with my colleague the Minister of were brought forward from the community to Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey), that through his government and to try to focus programs within department this year we will be able to utilize and different departments that would deal effectively hire those recreation directors to deliver services with the multicultural community. We are nowin the and opportunitiesto their communities in the North. process. Madam Deputy Speaker, we also, through this Of course, we have recruited and hired two budget, made some changes to the heritage funding people to work in the outreach office, and we are in and will be winding down the operations of the the process now of, having hired the staff, being able Manitoba Heritage Foundation which I spoke to to put that outreach office-it will be like a store-front earlier in Question Period today. I think that the operation within the core area of the city of Winnipeg community will be well served, and I know that from where people will be able to come to attempt to talking to and from the feedback from the community accessthe government servicesthat they need. So that they are looking with anticipation to the new I am pleased that is underway and will be up and structure. running in the very near future. I want to make it very clear today that the The recreation community has not been community will be consulted and will be a part of the overlooked in this budget either. I think we all process of the decision making. I know the member recognize and realize the benefit of recreation to our for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) has some questions, quality of life. Last fall I announced the new and I will reiterate again, that unlike the critic from 1390 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

the NDP party who has a background and an Manitoba Sports Federation, to the heritage understanding of the history of Historic Resources community, to conservation projects through the Branch within our department, the member for Department of Natural Resources. Those dollars Inkster I do not believe has a clear understanding. that are generated in the community go back to the I know he does not because you couldjust tell by community in so very many ways. the tone and the lack of understanding in his I am pleased to have had the opportunity to be a questioning today. I know after Question Period he part of directing some of the money to health care, did tell me that he was going to take more of an to rural development and to conservation in our interest in the heritage community. I welcome that, province. because I believe it is importantthat all partiesin this House have an understanding and a working I think on that note I will close and say I look relationship with the community. I cannot say that forward to a continuation of debate on the budget about the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) and ultimately the passage of this budget, and on to because I know he has been actively involved in his the Estimates process where we can deal in detail community. I have met with members of his and hear from the opposition the positive community, and they have many goodthings to say recommendations that they have and suggestions about the member for St. Boniface and his that they have to contribute to improvingthe health understanding of the issues. and the economy here in the province. I think I have covered all of the areas within my We have taken many of theright steps. We have department that have been affected,and I think in a moved in the right direction, and I know that the very positive way through this budget process this taxpayers and the people of Manitoba will benefit in a very positive way as a result of some of the year, but I think I would be remiss if I did not talk about another area of responsibility, and that is decisions that we have made to date and the lotteries. decisions that we will make in the future. I guess, ultimately, our end goal is to make We have seen some majorchange over the last Manitoba a better place in which to live, to get the few years in the areas of lottery generation of economy rolling again, and to do the right things for revenue withthe Crystal Casino, which is supporting the right reasons. I would ask members of the special health care projectsthrough itsre venue, and opposition, Instead of being quite as critical as they with the new introduction of the video lottery have been in the past, to take a look at some of the terminals in rural Manitoba hotels. good things that are happening, applaud as We, I think, have done somethinggood with the business moves into Manitoba and as jobs are introduction of video lottery terminals in rural created and give us credit when some of those Manitoba. It has beena boostfor thehote ls, for the positive things start to happen. economy and, I think, for the increased sense otwell Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. being of many communities as a result. One ofthe goodthings about that program is that through the • (1550) Department of Rural Development the minister will Mr.Nell Gaudry(St. Boniface): Firstly, I would like be using the money that is generated from the to say, I will be speaking in both official languages communities, and puttingthat money right back into today,of which I am very proud to be able. I did not the communitiesinto rural economic development. get a chance to put my comments on the throne Sometimes we tend to forget when we get speech, but firstI would like to say, I was pleased to criticism across the floorfrom the opposition about be back here and see the colleagues in the lotteries or how we are functioning or what we are Legislature. It was nice to see the Pages, and I wish doing is that lotteries do good things for many them a good session. They will enjoy being here Manitobans, not only in the health care system now and learn the process of what goes on in the with our commitment of casino revenues going into Legislature. Welcome to all of them. They are the the Health Services Development Fund, not only future of Manitoba. through the Video Lottery Terminal program which Madame Ia vice-presidente, c'est un honneur will put money right back into rural Manitoba pour mol de me lever a mon tour, afin d'adresser communities, but into our cultural organizations quelques mots sur Ia planification du gouvernement through the Manitoba Arts Council, through the telle qu'elle a ete presentee a cette assemblee March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1391

deliberante, lors de Ia lecturedu Discoursdubudget non-seulement le bien-fonda de Ia plupart,sinon de qui est le cinquieme a etre presente par ce present toutes, les resolutions annoncees par le leader gouvernement. liberal, mais il a surtout pu savourer un logicisme constructif que l'on n'a pu entrevoir dans Ia II existe certaines bases fondamentales que l'on dolt retrouver dans un plan budgetaire afin de nourrir degringolade de mots subjectifs du chef du Parti Ia croissance economique et socialed'une societe neo-clemocrate. ou d'un peuple. II est regrettable de constater que le negativisme prend de plus en plus d'ampleur chez Jes NPD, ce II va de soi que l'on peut dire que cet agenda qui est probablement a Ia source de leur etroltesse politique et financier du gouvernement ne se distingue d'aucune innovation; n'annonce aucune d'esprit demontree par une critique constante et vide de toute suggestion corrective. Mais je ne mesure extraordinaire; ne donne aucun souffle d'espoir aux Manitobains et aux Manitobaines voudrais pas m'eloigner plus longtemps du sujet d'entrevoir une issue de secours afin de sortir des principal de mes propos qui est le programme que I e gouvernement pretend no us presenter. periples innombrables, et combien malheureux,de Ia recession economique dans laquelle nous vivons (inte�ection) actuellement. I will come back. Dans tout systeme parlementaire, comme celui Madame Ia vice-presidente, quand je dis dont nous avons le privilege d'en jouir des bienfaits "programme�. je suis genereux,car il n'y a rien dans au Canada et au Manitoba, le respect du devoir ce que le gouvernement nous presente qui n'a pas civique de chaque depute dolt faire honneur a Ia eta annonce ou suggere auparavant. confiance leguee par les electeurs et les electrices. Au risque de le repeter, les Manitobains et les Et ce, peu importe que l'on soit parmi les rangs du Manitobaines savent deja trop bien que le dollar est gouvernement ou bien assis parmi le ou les partis trop haut, et que Brian Mulroney- politiques de I'oppo sition. An Honourable Member: What? Les allegeances ideologiquesdoivent servirde til conducteur tout en permettant a Ia pensee de ne Mr. Gaudry: A Tory. pas outrepasser Ia realite. La raison d'etrede notre -est trop preoccupe par son image personnelle Assemblee legislative, de contribuer a qu'il n'a pas le temps de s'inquieter des interetsde I'amelior ation des conditions de vie des Manitobains notre pays; encore moins des interets de notre et des Manitobaines, doit etre Ia source d'inspiration province. qui permette au gouvernement et a !'opposition de Et en ce qui concerne son image, le pauvre est se completer l'un a l'autre. irrecuperable; il n'a meme plus besoin d'aide. Je ne dlscuterai pas ici de maniere systematique Meme Picasso ne pourraiten redresser le portrait. les differencesdes deux bords parce que Ia chose En ce qui concernedes initiatives en matiere de est deja faite de fa�ton habituelle. Neanmoins, croissance economique, on nous a annonce Ia j'aimerais preciser qu'il est du role de I'opposition de restructuration du ministere de l'lndustrie, du montrer avec force et pertinence les insuffisances Commerce et du Tourisme qui, desormais, mettra du gouvernement. l'accent sur des initiatives strategiques. Si de par Non seulement il est logique pour rna part de I'existence meme de cemin istere, il n'etait pas deja supporter !'allocution presentee recemment par le dans les objectifs du ministere de l'lndustrie, du leader du Parti liberal sur le Discours du trone, mais Commerce et du Tourisme de mettre !'accent sur c'est surtout avec fierte que je reconnais dans ce des initiatives strategiques afin de stimuler Ia discours de reponse le serieux avec lequel le role croissance economique de notre province, legislatif de I'opposition est demontre. qu'est-ce que ce ministere a done fait pendant Jes Madame Ia vice-presidente, afin de conserver trois dernieres annees? l'objectivite de mes pensees je dois neanmoins Madame Ia vice-presidente, en matiere avouer un certain regret a propos du discours du economique, l'action d'un gouvernement doit leader de Ia seconde opposition. Mon regret est permettre d'aboutir a un certain nombre de que ce discours n'ait pas ete le Discours du trone. resultats. Je crois que le premier resultat Le premier ministre lui-meme a reconnu economique fondamental, c'est de faire du 1392 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Manitoba une veritable province prospere au sein qu'il taut agir, et c'est sur ce point que pour ma part, d'un Canada industrial. Le second, c'est d'assurer je ne cesserai de repeter que le gouvernement ne certaines mutations necessaires dans des maintient pas le correctif social indispensable afin domaines bien precis, comme, par exemple, dans d'assurer un equilibre eco nomique stable au les domaines agricola ou du commerce. Mais, il Manitoba. taut egalement se soucier que ces mutations se En matiere de renouveau economique pour notre fassent dans des conditionstelles qu'elles ne creent province il s'agit Ia d'une transformation enorme, et pas de souffrance. le gouvernement demontre une nouvelle fois qu'il C'est pourquoi j'attache pour ma part Ia plus craint de ne pas etre en mesure de prevoir et de grande importance a ce que !'action sociale du prevenir les consequences sociales de cette gouvernement soit tournee, par priorite, vers les transformation. plus defavorises et vers ceux et celles qui souffrent En ce qui concerne le domaine social, il est de a l'heure actuelle de Ia transformation necessaire et rigueur pour un gouvernement de se soucier de Ia indispensable de notre economie. vulnerabirlte des enfants et des femmes. Et puis il y a un troisieme aspect, que jecrois tres Je fus encourage quelque peu quand le important du point de vue economique, c'est de gouvernement declara continuer d'accorder Ia donner a l'economie manitobaine une dim ension priorite aux refuges pour femmes et enfants nationale et intemationale. vulnerables. Bien entendu, cela veut dire d'abord le Canada J'interpretais ces propos dans l'optique positive ou l'echange commercial est bien trop souvent que Ia •maison Teresa" recevrait le financement inexistant; ceci est dO, entre autres choses, a un adequat afin de repondre aux besoins de Ia problema d'ordre national, un problema que collectivite. j'appellerai le problema Mulroney. Quelle deception et surtoutquelle meprise de ma II n'est pas concevable, en matiere economique, part d'avoir ose croire que finalement le de proner une politique d'echange commercial gouvernement repondrait aux besoins des femmes orientee singulierement vers un pays etranger, franco-manitobaines necessiteuses d'un meme voisin, tout en ignorant les provinces environnement propice a attenuer leurs peines et avoisinantes et qui se trouvent etre les autres leur douleurs. composantes constitutionnelles de notre nation. Quand le gouvernement se dit pret a mettre C'est, pour ma part, ce que je crois etre l'objectif davantage !'accent sur les soins en milieu fondamental, parce que je ne vois, pour une communautaire et a s'efforcer de mettre une plus province de Ia dimension du Manitoba, que deux grande proportiondes fonds disponibles a Ia portae issues: ou bien se refermer a nouveau sur des nombreux services competents au sein de Ia elle-meme, et vivoter, a l'abri des humeurs collectivite, je me dis que Ia circonstance de ces americaines de I'Accorcl du libre echange, et par propos ne pouvait etre meilleure. consequent deperir, ou bien alors etre en mesure En effet, Madame Ia vice-presidente, le "Service de participer pleinement au marche international, de conseiller" a Saint-Boniface vient tout juste de avec ses dimensions actuelles qui s'ouvrent deja, recevoir son certificat national d'agrement. Ce pour englober non seulement le monde occidental, certificat est Ia reconnaissance officielle de Ia mais aussi le monde de I'Est. qualite professionnelle des services qu'offre depuis II va de sol que cela suppose une transformation deja bien longtemps cet organisme a Ia collectivite des esprits , que cela suppose un effort dans le domaine du "counselling". II est done juste d'investissement considerable, et que cela suppose d'en deduire que dorenavant le "Service de des ententes interprovinciales et des creations conseiller" rencontrera les nombreux objectifs du d'entreprises de taille nationale dont il existe tres gouvernement en matiere de services de peu encore au Manitoba. prevention, de traitement et desout ien au sein de Ia Le Manitoba a trop longtemps vecu dans ce collectivite. D'ou Ia conclusion logique d'un appui protectionnisme interprovincial qui a ete vehicule financier de Ia part du gouvernement. successivement par les Neo-democrates et les Et j'ose encore esperer tres sincerement que Conservateurs. C'est contre le protectionnisme malgre tout, le gouvernement trouvera les moyens March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1393

appropries et necessaires afin de demontrer que ce given by the Leader of thesecond opposition party. meme gouvernement sait reagir de faqon My regret is that this speech was not "the" throne responsable face aux efforts de Ia collectivite. speech. The First Minister (Mr. Filmon) himself [Translation] recognized not only the validity of most, if not all of the resolutions proposed by the Liberal Leader, but Madam Deputy Speaker, it is an honour for me to he, above all, was able to savour the constructive rise in turn to say a few words about the logic that we could not divine in the cascade of government's planning as presented to this subjective words from the Leader of the New Assembly during the Budget Debate, which is the Democratic Party. fifthto be introduced bythis government. It is regrettable to observe the negativism that is There are certain fundamentals that have to be steadily increasing among the NDP, which is likely contained in a budgetary plan in order to nourish the the source of their narrow-mindedness as economic and social growth of a society or a people. demonstrated by a constantand empty criticism of It goes without saying that this government's any positive suggestion, but I would not wish to stray political and financial agenda does not distinguish any longer from the principal topic of my remarks, itself with any innovation. It does notannounce any which is the program that the government claims it extraordinary measures. It does notgive any gleam is presenting to us. pnte�ection) of hope to Manitobans of findinga safe way out of [English] the numerous andso unfortunateups and downs of I will come back. the economic recession that we are currently experiencing. [French] In any parliamentary system, such as the one Madam Deputy Speaker,when I say "program," I whose benefits we have the privilege of enjoying in am being generousbecause there is nothing in what Canada and Manitoba, respect for the civic duty of the government is presenting to us thathas not been each member must give due honour to the announced or proposed previously. confidenceexpressed by the electors,regardless of At the risk of being repetitive, Manitobans already whether we sit on the government benches or with know too well that the dollar is too high and that the party or parties of the opposition. Brian Mulroney- Ideological allegiances must serveas a common [Engllsh] thread while all the same not allowing reflection to overstep the bounds of reality. The raison d'etreof An Honourable Member: What? our Legislative Assembly, to contributeto improving Mr. Gaudry: A Tory the living conditions of Manitobans, must be the [French) source of inspiration that enables the government and the oppositionto complement each other. -isso preoccupied by his personal imagethat he has not the time to worry aboutthe interests of our I will not at this time be discussing systematically country and even less about the Interests of our the differences on both sides because that is province. Insofar as his image is concerned, the something that is already done on a regular basis. poor man is beyondre demption. He can no longer Nonetheless, I would like to emphasize that it is the even be helped. Even Picasso could not fix his role of the opposition to point out forcefully and picture. appropriately the deficiencies of the government. Insofar as economic growth initiatives are It is not only logical for me to support the speech concerned, we were informed of the restructuring of given recently by the Leader of the Liberal Party in the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, response to the throne speech, but it is, above all, which from now on will focus on strategic initiatives. with pride that I recognize in that speech the If by virtue of the very existence of this department seriousness with which the legislative role of the it was not already within the objectives of the opposition is demonstrated. Departmentof Industry, Trade and Tourism to focus Madame Deputy Speaker, in order to maintain the on strategic initiatives aimed at stimulating the objectivity of my reflections, I must nonetheless economic growth of our province,then what has this confess to a certain regret regarding the speech department been doing for the past three years? 1394 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Madam Deputy Speaker, in the economic area, stop reiterating that the government is not government action must make it possible to achieve maintaining the indispensable social corrective to a certain number of results. I believe that the first secure a stable economic balance in Manitoba. fundamental economic result is to make Manitoba a In the area of economic renewal for our province, truly prosperous province within an industrial this is an enormous transformation and the Canada. The second one is to secure certain government is showing once again that it is fearful necessary transformations in highly specific fields, of not being able to foresee and prevent thesesocial such as the agriculture or trade fields, but we must consequences of this transformation. In regard to also be careful that these trans formations do not the social domain, it is essential for a government to come about under conditions that create suffering. address the vulnerability of women and children. That is why I personally attach a great deal of * (1600) importance to government social action that is directed as a priority to themost disadvantaged and I was somewhat encouraged when the to those who are now suffering as a result of the government stated that it was going to continue to give priority to shelters for vulnerable women and necessary and indispensable transformation of our children. I interpreted these words in the positive economy. expectation that Theresa House would receive There is also a third aspect that I believe is very adequate financing in order to meet the needs of the important from the economicpoint of view, and that community. What a disappointment and, above all, is to give the Manitoba economy a national and what a misunderstanding on my part to have dared international dimension. believe that finally the government was going to meet the needs of Franco-Manitoban women who Ofcourse, Madam Deputy Speaker, first of all that were in need of an environment that was propitious means a Canada where commercial trade is far too to alleviating their sorrows and their hurt. often nonexistent. This is due among other things to a problem at thenational level, which I will call the When thego vernmentstates that it is prepared to Mulroney problem. It is inconceivable in economic place greater emphasis on community care and put matters to extol a trade policy directed exclusively a greater proportion of available funds within the at a foreign, albeit neighbouring, country while reach of the many competent services within the ignoring the adjacent provinces which are the other community, I feel that the timing of this declaration constitutional components of our nation. could not be better. As a matter of fact, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Service de Conseiller in St. Madam Deputy Speaker, that personally is what Boniface has just received its national certification, I believe to be the fundamental objective, because and this certification is an official recognition of the I can only see two ways out for a province of professional quality of the services that have Manitoba's size, either to tum inward once again already been offered for some time by this and scrape by in the shadow of American whims organization to the community in the counselling under the Free Trade Agreement andconseq uently area. fade away, or else be in a position to participate fully in the international marketplace with its present So it is appropriate to deduce that from now on dimensions that even now are opening up to the Service de Conselller will meet the numerous encompass not only the western world, but also the objectives of the government in the area of eastern world. prevention, treatment and support services within the community. The logical conclusion of that It goes without saying that this presupposes a would be financial support from the government. transformation in thinking and presupposes a So I hope, very sincerely, once again, that in spite considerable investment effort and presupposes of everything, the government will find the interprovincial agreements and the setting up of appropriate and necessary means to demonstrate national scale businesses of which very few exist that this same government knows how to react in a yet in Manitoba. Manitoba has lived for too long with responsible way to community efforts. this interprovincial protectionism which was put forward successively by the New Democrats and [English] Conservatives. We must act against protectionism, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also have to stress the and in respect to that issue, I personally will never critical need of confronting elder abuse. Many March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1395

seniors in Manitoba are victims of physical, financial Self-government and the settlement of land claims and psychological abuse. The majority of elder must be accomplished for the aboriginal abuse is perpetrated by family members or friends communities to prosper as well as for those that of the victim, thereby making seniors reluctant to surround them. contact the police or to reporttheir abusers to proper The settlement of land claims will provide the authorities. economic base in the establishment of There is, at the present time, an urgent need to self-government including an aboriginal justice address the situation of the lack of shelters for system. It will also provide the political base to abused elders. Most ofthe time the facilities being manage the economic resourcesto make aboriginal used presently do not respond to the needs of the communities self-sufficient andpro sperous. seniors faced with mobility, hearing and sight We in the Liberal Party are committed to a impairments. moratorium on the further disposition of Crown Moreover, we must not forget about the great lands. We support the amalgamation of the number of our seniors faced with financial Provincial Court and the Court of Queen's Bench difficulties. In order to eliminate theadminis trative into the Manitoba trial court, making it possible to delays for our seniors to get reimbursed, the hold jury trials in the communities where an offence introduction of aresolution to create a Pharmacare was committed. card based on a system that will require seniors to The liberal Partyin Manitoba has been calling for pay only their deductible would be more than many years now for the creation of an officeof child appropriate. protection. Given the recent centralization of the Madam Deputy Speaker, northernconcerns have Child and Family Services bureaucracy, the received a lot of lip service from a succession of creation of an office of the children's advocate as provincial governments over the years-note, announced in the budgetseems to be agood start. please, I said previous governments-but However, I am convinced that the children's unfortunately these promises have rarely survived advocate must report to the legislative Assembly the transition to power. Since I have worked in and not to the minister in order to fully respect the various northern regions myself in the past, I can impartiality necessary to protect and defend the empathize with the issues of concern to the northern children's welfare. communities. Madam Deputy Speaker, while the governmentis In addition, I will be making a few commentsabout turning itsback on the city ofWinnipeg, its treatment the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, rural development of rural development is only marginally better. bonds and hydroelectric development, issues, Madam Deputy Speaker, the liberal Party will which in previous consultations, northerners have give the government some credit for its introduction listed as priorities. of the rural bonds program in the last year. We have The Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report, AJ I, is, in my no difficultyin complimenting the government when opinion, one of the most important documents any it adopts liberal campaign promises, when the government has been presented with in a long time. government adopts good policies. It indicates that the fundamental purpose of The member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson) government, to protect its citizens and to provide a mentioned before, asked me to compliment him, system of justice to provide order in society, is and I did, but they were using our policies. flawed, a fundamental flaw that must be addressed Unfortunately this is one of the few positive and it must be addressed now. measures the government has taken and this The Liberal Party agrees with the report's budget does not build on this base. last year this statement that the justice system has failed government cut community development from Manitoba's aboriginal people on a massive scale. It which was to spring the solutions to economic has been insensitive and inaccessible; it has diversification. This year the trend continues as arrested them and imprisoned them in grossly community development receives a further 9.4 disproportionate numbers. percent cut. let it be noted however that justice for aboriginal The offloading of provincial responsibilities onto people goes beyond the judicial system. municipalities continueswith a 1.9 percentcut to the 1396 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

local government services division with municipal Through all this, I am led to believe that the social support grants being cut by 57.4 percent. and economic well-being of northern communities An Honourable Member: I think you are teaching was deemed less important than the energy needs Ben too much. He did not realize that. of southern Manitobans by provincial governments over the last 30 years, 20 of the NDP. Mr. Gaudry: I am just giving him statistics that have * (1610) come out of the budget in case he could not read them. It is time for a new approach from the government and from Manitoba Hydro, an approach that The Finance minister (Mr. Manness) apparently respects northern communities and the has no qualms about attacking the federal environment. The first step in doing this would be government for offloading while doing the very same to stop stonewalling on northern flood thing to municipalities in Manitoba. Unfortunately compensation. The commitments made under the the municipalities are at the bottom of the tax food Northern Flood Agreement should be respected by chain and they are then faced with the unpleasant all sides. It also should include participation by task of cutting local infrastructure services and other communities. raising propertyta xes. Government's unwillingness to live up to these Madam Deputy Speaker, when the government terms has resulted in both sides spending far too changed the name of this department from much on legal and consulting fees. This Municipal Affairs to Rural Development, it was to be compensation money was intended for northern a sign that government was prioritizing economic economic development, not for the economic diversification, but, like too many othergove rnment deve lopment of our legal and consulting moves, the name change was more flash than communities. substance. The department has not geared itself The second step would be for this government toward rural economic development and has and for Manitoba Hydro to concentrate their efforts functioned as the same old Department of Municipal on energy conservation. The government is being Affairs with a differentname. Again, there has been pushed reluctantly into conservationbut it should be no vision of what might be. embracing it as a means to save tax dollars and to This budget does provide some hope that the protect the environment. government will finally start listening to rural Madam Deputy Speaker, can I have the time left? communities when it comes to economic I should be able to speak for an hour and a half. I development. Thelottery-funded Rural Economic did not get a chanceto speak on the throne speech. Development Initiative program announced will be What is the time? something that I, the Rural Development critic, will Madam Deputy Speaker: The honourable follow closely. It may prove useful, and we hope member has expended 22 minutes of his allotted that this governmentwill simply not turn it into a new time. He has 18 minutes left. patronage, or turn it into a Tory vote. If the Mr. Gaudry: Conservation gives Manitoba Hydro government is committed to real economic time before it needs to develop another power development I will help with this programbecause I source. I hope the minister is listening this time. recognize the importance of rural diversification. This time can be used to do proper environmental As Liberals, we are eagerly looking forward to the reviews and to bring northern communities into the details on this initiative and hope that we will not be decision making so that they are not simply left to disappointed as the rest of the budget paints a dark cope with a decision that will devastate their picture of the government's commitment to rural communities. Hydro development has for too long Manitoba. Hydro development has too often been been based on the political goals of the party-the insensitive to the needs of the environment and the NDP when they were in power-and not on the citizens of our northern communities. The full energy and economic needs of Manitobans, impacts of flooding were never considered and particularlynorth ern Manitobans. never properly budgeted for. It is a known fact that Madam Deputy Speaker, hydro development government and Manitoba Hydro have dramatically must be taken out of the political realm and put back underbudgeted for flood compensation. into the economic and environmental realms where March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1397

it belongs. Decisions must be made on the basis of Mr. Gaudry: Yes, he does. I told you I would energy needs-remember that-and when it is compliment you today, and I intend to do that, but I going to be needed, environmental concerns and will attack you also. sound economics, not on the timing of the next Madam Deputy Speaker, agriculture is vital to the election. I truly believe that this kind ofprocess will future prosperity of our province. Yet, during these benefit all Manitobans whether they live in difficult past 1 0 years no governmenthas paid any Winnipeg, Brandon, Norway House or Portage Ia attention to where agriculture is going, indeed Prairie. whether it will survive,and this budget continuesthis unfortunatetrend . Drought has been a problem, but Above all, let us remind ourselves that northern the government's only response has been to pay and rural communities are an important and vital more for support for crops that did not grow and to part of the environmental life and the economic demand that the federal government provide relief. development of our great province of Manitoba. The GRIP program was introduced last year and Madam Deputy Speaker, therefore, I have now we are pleased to see the government presented to this House a resolution dealing with implementing NISA-another compliment for you, distance education as all Manitobans should have Minister ofAgriculture (Mr. Rndlay)-even if it had access to education services whether they live in to be dragged kicking and screaming to do so. small remote communities or not. (Mr. Speaker in theChair) Madam Deputy Speaker, the cornerstoneof rural These are important steps but they are only the development is agricultural development, and while beginning of what a responsiblegove rnment should there are major increases for GRIP and NISA, there do-l am not saying irresponsible yet but it might is the same disturbing lack of vision in the come later. The introduction of thesetwo programs agricultural budget as it focuses on tinkering in the add significantly to the Agriculture budget and with short term to the detriment of long-term these income stabilization plans in place, we hope development. pnterjection] For insurance, for NISA that the departmentstarts addressing thelong-term and GRIP. challenges faced by the agricultural community. The agricultural community has been suffering for Mr. Speaker, if soil conditions are changing and more than a decade from the twin evils of drought rainfall is becoming less dependable, then the and international tradewars. While understandably government should be looking at ways to adapt to the farm community has been forced to operate the changing worid. It is not enough to complain under crisis management conditions, the about the problems and ask for drought relief government abandoned its role of ensuring the payments. The government's response to soil long-term economic development of agriculture in degradation is to cut the budget of the Soils and Crops Branch. this province. While many prominent scientists identify soil Rrst the NDP and then the Tories concentrated erosion and degradation as the biggest only on the present and failed to build an agenda for environmental crisis facing the globe today, this the future. government cuts the funding to the Soils Branch. An Honourable Member: The Liberals are next, The continued productivity of our soil is vital to you know. long-term sustainable agriculture yet this government cuts resources. This is the lack of Mr. Gaudry: But they will build an agenda for the vision in agriculture that does not bode well for the farmers. future. Madam Deputy Speaker, I have to agree with my Mr Speaker, sustainable development is not a former colleague. Mr. Evans complimented the concept that is separate and apart from the real Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) the other day, world. It is the future of resource-driven industries said he was a good minister. I have to put this on and it is the future of agriculture as well. the record. There are a number of things thatthis government An Honourable Member: Laurie thinks highly of could do or encourage to make the land and farms you. more productive, but the only solution they have 1398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

chosenis to take water from farmers in one area and budget fails to address the problem and this inaction give it to farmers in another. This is not a solution; will have long-term negative implications for it is only shiftingthe problem. agricuture in the province. Decisions such as these The government trumpeted its land and water take courage and this government seems to be strategy and then promptly ignored it when the missing a lot of it. positive media reaction had been achieved. Mr. Agricultural research and development has once Speaker, where has the follow-up been? again been given the short shift in this budget and it The budget contains no added resources for is another example of the lack of vision in this shelter-belt programs. Shelter belts provide budget. The grant for agricultural research has protection for soil and wind erosion as well as been cut by $75,500 or 8.6 percent. provide habitat for local plant and animal species. While our agricultural competitors are improving They hold moisture in the soil and reduce wind their productivity through R & D by developing new damage to valuable top soil. crop strains and better soil management The government has also taken no steps to techniques, our farmers are falling behind because improve agricultural productivity by developing a of a lack of commitment on the part of both the provincial and the federal governments. The sustainable policy on the farming of marginal lands. government cannot focus its vision beyond the end All government programs are geared to putting of its collective nose, Mr. Speaker, and as a result every squareinch of land into agricultural production the long-term challenges agriculture facesare whether the land is capable of sustaining profitable being ignored. yields or not. Marshes,bogs, woodlandsand scrub lands have been cleared so more land can be It is unfortunate that this government believes that farmed. This causes problems in a number of ways. investing in the long-term viability of our agricultural system is not a priority. It is obviously not listening Environmentally, we have seen the destruction of to the people that elected it. valuable wildlife habitat which leads to the loss of animal and plant species from certain areas. In Monsieur le president, avant d'aborder Ia order to make these marginal lands more question de Ia constitution du Canada, j'aimerais productive, farmers must use more fertilizer and apporter quelques commentaires a propos des more chemicals which can have negative impacts services en fran9ais. on the remaining nonfarmland. In addition, the Tout d'abord j'aimerais souligner le "coup de extra chemical and fertilizer costs increase the chapeau" du premier ministre. Monsieur Filmon a farmers' cost and lead to tight profit margins given en effet ete l'orateur invite a l'assemblee generale that the land is not overly productive in the first de Ia Societe franco-manitobaine le 1 er novembre place. dernier. Cette date marquait Ia troisieme annee This leads to an increased costto the government consecutive de Ia visite officielle du premier andto all farmers. Government support programs ministre. Ceci demontre sensiblement ('existence do not differentiate between marginal farmland and d'une bonne communication entre Monsieur Filmon productive farmland and therefore government et Ia collectivite franco-manitobaine. dollars are going to supportproduction on land that Ceci dit, j'espere que le premier ministre verra a should not be farmed at all. Mr. Speaker, this also accelerer l'etude du rapport Gallant sur Ia gestion means that there is less money available to farmers des ecoles franco-manitobaines. II me semble tres on productive land that are suffering from approprie que ce dossier soit finalise au plus vite en international trade wars and drought conditions. l'englobant dans Ia revision des limites des divisions • (1620) scolaires, qui a ete annulee hier, de l a province telle que stipulee dans le Discours du trone. Mr. Speaker, a sustainable agricultural policy must be developed, a policy that discourages Quant aux dispositions de Ia Partie Ill de Ia Loi sur farming on marginal land is needed, a policy that Ia Ville de Winnipeg, celles-ci semblent avoir ete encourages farmers to take marginal land out of oubliees, car elles ne sont mentionnees nulle part. prod uction and return it to natural habitat. Durant son allocution du 1er novembre 1991 lors Sustainable agricultural policies like this have been de l'assemblee generale de Ia Societe successfully implemented all over the world but this franco-manitobaine, le premier ministre a dit et je March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1399

cite: "Nous presenterons a I'Assemblee legislative ministre a implanter les suggestions et les un projet de loi pour rendre plus claires et plus recommandations du Parti liberal. rigoureuses les dispositions de Ia Partie Ill de Ia Loi Je puis vous assurer, Monsieur le president, que sur Ia Ville de Winnipeg" mes collegues liberaux et moi-meme, qui siegeons J'espere que le premier ministre prendra le temps dans cette chambre, continuerons a proposer des de m'expliquer ce qui est arrive a cette promesse. resolutions fortes et pertinentes afin de contribuer Dans le secteur juridique, il est tres deplorable de au developpement economique, politique et social ne toujours pas avoir de presence francophone aIa de notre province du Manitoba. Cour d'appel du Manitoba ainsi que Ia presence a [Translation] plein temps d'un juge francophone a Saint-Boniface. Mr. Speaker, before broaching the question of the Canadian Constitution I would like to make a few Nous parlions d'initiatives innovatrices afin de comments in regard to French language services. stimuler l'economie. Un centre permanent de Firstly, I would like to acknowledgethe Premier's hat traduction juridique a Saint-Boniface qui trick. Mr. Filmon was, in fact, the guest speaker of desservirait I'Ouest canadien est probablement un the general assembly of the Societe tres bon projet pilote pour raviver l'essor franco-manitobaineon November1 of last year, and economique de Ia collectivite. this date marked the third consecutive year of an Monsieur le president, le dossier constitutionnel official visit from the Premier, which clearly est probablement le sujet de discussion le plus demonstrates the existence of goodcommunic ation epineux en ce moment. Tout en etant convaincu de between Mr. Filmon and the Franco-Manitoban Ia possibilite de conserver l'unite nationale, je dois community. realiser neanmoins que les chances de reussite Having said that, I hope thatthe First Minister will sont tres limitees tant que Brian Mulroney sera le see to accelerating the study of the Gallant report chef du gouvernement federal. on the governance of Franco-Manitobanschools. It Loin de moi d'avoir Ia pretention d'essayer de seems to me very appropriate thatthis issue should resoudre les dimensions legales complexes de ce be finalized as quickly as possible by incorporating sujet. Nous avons assez d'experts constitutionnels it into the province's review of school division a l'echelle nationale, que nous pouvons leur faire boundaries, which was cancelled yesterday, as confiance. stipulated in the Speech from the Throne. In regard Le leader du Parti liberal a deja annonce que les to the provisions of Part Ill of The City of Winnipeg membres du caucus liberal decideront selon leur Act, these seem to have been forgotten, because conscience et opinion personnelles au traversd'un they are not mentioned anywhere. vote libre, dans !'instance que le sujet soit presente In his speech on November 1, 1991, at the devant cette chambre. general assembly of the Societe Quand allons-nous connaitre les intentions du franco-manitobaine the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) gouvernement? stated, and I quote: "We will present to the II est clair que le mot "distinct", quoique s'ecrivant Legislative Assembly a bill to render theprovisions de Ia meme fac;on en anglais ou en franc;ais, rec;oit of PartIll of The Cityof Winnipeg Act moreclear and Ia meme definition dans les deux langues avec more rigorous." malgre tout une certaine difference. I hope that the First Minister will take the timeto En anglais le mot "distinct" semble recevoir, en explain to me what has become of this promise. plus de sa definition de base, un degre qualitatif qui In the legal sector it is highly deplorable that we n'existe pas dans Ia langue franc;aise. still do not have any Francophone presence at the Peut-etre, pourrions-nous songer a remplacer Court of Appeal level in Manitoba or the presence !'expression "societe distincte" par "Societe of a full-time Francophone judge in St. Boniface. quebecoise" ou en anglais par "The Quebec We were talking about innovative initiatives to society". stimulate the economy. A permanent centre for En conclusion Monsieur le president, j'aimerais legal translation in St. Boniface, which would serve reconnaitre l'honnetete et Ia franchise du premier the Canadian West, is probably a very good pilot 1400 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

project to help revive the economic situation of the your health will be of such a nature that it will be able community. to sustain the maintenance of the Chair over the Mr. Speaker,the constitutional issue is probably next session andfor many years to come. the thorniest subject of discussion at this time. Let me say, Mr. Speaker, that I would like to also Although I am convinced of the possibility of congratulate our Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) maintaining national unity I have to realize, for coming forth with a budget that I think was nevertheless, that the chancesfor success are very well-finessed in a time of great difficultyfor not only limited as long as Brian Mulroney is the head of the this province, but for all the rest of this country and federal government. I dare say most nations of this globe, that it was a Far be it from me to be so pretentious as to budget that everybody should applaud in this attemptto resolve all thecomplex legal dimensions Chamber. of this subject. We have enough constitutional A $5.5 billion budget during times of economic experts at the national level that we can put our trust downturns of the likes of which this province and this in them. country has seldom ever seen before, and the The Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs) maintenance of our most cherished programs and has already announced that the members of the the increased spending in those most cherished Liberal caucus will decide according to their programs should be congratulated. conscience and personal opinion through a free It is a credit to our Finance minister (Mr. vote in the event that the subject is presented before Manness), the Premier (Mr. Film on) of this province, this House. Mr. Speaker, when are we going to the Executive Council, and Treasury Board, that learn the intentions ofthe government? they have been able to assure society in this It is clear that the word "distinct," which is written province that the Department of Health and our the same in English and in French, has the same health programs will not only be maintained, but that definition in both languageswith , however, a certain spending will in fact be increased in those difference. In English, the word "distinct" seems to departments to ensure that not only will our health be given, in addition to its basic definition, a care be of a nature that the opposition has raised qualitative degree which does not exist in the French concerns about continually, and have accused this language. We could perhaps consider replacing government of wanting to cut back�ontinually, the the expression "distinct society" by "Quebec leader of darkness, the leader of gloom and doom society." in this Chamber has continually indicated that this government, our government will cut back in health In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to care and Education and in Family Services. acknowledge the honesty and frankness of the First Minister in implementing the suggestions and Well, this budget hopefully proved once and for recommendationsof the Liberal Party. I can assure all to the leader of gloom and doom, the leader of you that my Liberal colleagues and myself who sit darkness, that we in fact are committed to in this House will continue to propose strong and maintaining our social programs such as Health and relevant resolutions in order to contribute to the Education and Family Services, and also the economic, political and social development of our maintenance of the programming in many of the province of Manitoba. other departmentsthat I intend to touch on a bit later. [English] What I want to see is the Premier of Saskatchewan when he finally dares to bring forth Mr. Speaker, before concluding-asI said before, his budget. I want to see from him spending I did not have a chanceto speak on the Speech from increases in Health of 5.7 or better. I challenge that the Throne-1 would like to say that it is nice to have Leader of the Opposition and all his colleagues to you back and well in the Chamber. defend not only last year's Ontario's budget as they Thank you very much. said they would be glad to do and debate what Ontario is doing, but they will now also have to Mr. Jack Penner {Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I want defend what Saskatchewan will be doing and B.C. to echo what the honourable member for St. Boniface has said, that I welcome you back into the I dare say, I wonder whether all three of those Chair. It is good to see you back here, and I hope provinces will come forward with a budget that is March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1401

similar to what our Minister of Finance (Mr. critical of our economic renewal effort in this Manness) has come forward with at this time. I province. Let us take a look at economic renewal wonder ifthey will be able to increase their Health and what is required. What is required to stimulate spending and their Education spending and, yes, the economy in this province? increase their Family Services budgets by 8 Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster}: Reduce the percent, almost 9 percent, as we have done, provincial sales tax by 3 percent in three months. $1 00-million increase for Health, building new That will cover it. hospitals in many of our communities in Manitoba, building new health care facilities, which the former Mr. Penner: The honourable member for Inkster NDP government had totally, totally neglected, a says reduce the sales tax, reduce taxes. Yet at brand new hospital in Vita, a facility that the every breath that I hear this honourable member community will for many, many years be able to be say, when he getsup in this House and speaks to proud of. Yet, did the previous administration pay issues, he said, we need more money. Now he any attention to the needs of those rural says reducetaxes. communities and the health care facilities in those How do you spend more with one hand and communities? No, theydid not. Theyignored it. reduce taxes with the other? There is a way. The • (1630) way is this. You have to generate economicIncome to provide jobs and get people working. Did the Similarly, we are going to keep on-and this previous administration, the NDP administration, budget clearly indicates our intention-providing know what that was all about? No, they did not, adequate services for many of our rural because what they in fact did was apply tax upon communities, as well as maintaining our programs tax upon employment and more tax. in hospitals and health care in this city of Winnipeg, an 8.7 percent increase in spending at Family When the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) is Services. critical of our inaction in trying to stimulate the economy, lower taxes to create more jobs, to get Now, we have heard the Leader of the Opposition people to spend more money, to build more (Mr. Doer), and thec ritic for Family Services in the industries,to providejobs for our kids and Incomes NDP party, as well as the Liberal Party, continually for a government thatwe can in fact maintain our condemn our ministers who have been doing,I say, services-thatis what we are about. That is why we an excellent job of ensuring that not only our are spending $20 million in the Industrial daycare centres andour daycare programs will be Recruitment Initiative. enhanced and expanded, and that there will be more daycare positions established In this province Let me say to the Leader of theOpposition that because of our commitment to Family Services, that we are going to spend, as a government, an awful the Child Advocate'slegislation that is being brought lot of time ensuring thatour province is competitive forward during this session will be implemented. and will remain competitive, taxation-wise and otherwise,that we are able to attractindustries into What did the NDP do, the previous this province from provinces such as Ontario, from administration? They did nothing. They talked and provinces such as B.C. and, yes, even from our they talked, and that is all they did; $52 million American friends, because only if and when we increase in Education, building new schools in small remain competitive will we be able to do that. That communities such as Letellier, providing adequate is, as the honourable member for Inkster said, by linguistic services in communities such as St. Jean, lowering taxes, keeping our spending in line and Ste. Anne, St. Malo, Letellier and St. Joseph, providing the services and the infrastructure that ensuring that these people will have the ability to industriesrequire to establish in this province. provide their children with an education. I have heard the opposition be critical and say What did the previous administration do? They many things about industries leaving this province allowed our children to be housed in dilapidated becauseof theFree Trade Agreement. I findit very facilities that were not only health hazards but were interesting that during the last three years, from fire hazards, and what did they do? Nothing. 1987 to 1990, the agricultural exports out of this I just heard the honourable member for St. province have increased by some 20 percent, 20 Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) a few minutes ago be fairly percent exportsto the United States. Is it because 1402 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

of the Free Trade Agreement? Well, maybe it is. Should we enhance our export-oriented service Maybe it is because of the Free Trade Agreement. industries? I think we should. Will the opposition Maybe people in the United States like the products vote for it? No, they will not because they do not we produce. Maybe they like the higher quality believe in providing jobs in this province. They do wheat that we produce,the higher quality meat that not believe in encouraging industries and industrial we produce, the higher quality manufactured goods development in this province. They will vote against that we produce, furniture, buses and farm it. agricultural equipment. Sales tax exemptions for the 1-800 numbers will Virtually anything that we produce, we can be be implemented. We will provide the payroll training proud of because of the quality of the product that tax credit which will be extended to include we put out in this province. programs delivered in export-oriented service Secondly, we need to encourage our industries, and we should. manufacturing sector to expand their operations in Let us look at Agriculture. I heard the honourable this province, and the way we can do that is by member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) today criticize providing some incentives. Now how do you do it? the Agriculture budget; yet, never in the history of Exactly as the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) this province has the Agriculture budget ever been said we should, and that is by lowering the amount increased to the percentages that we have this of tax that industries have to pay. That is how you year-a $23-million increase. Yes, a $23-million do it, that is what this budget says we are going to increase, and they will vote against the increase in do. spending in Agriculture. The opposition members We are going to provide a temporary 1 0 percent will vote against supporting Agriculture to that income tax credit for investment in new degree-(interjection] manufacturing and processing in Manitoba that we Yes, correct, some of the money that has been will introduce to accelerate existing investment indicated in the Agriculture budget will be used to plans and encourage new investment. That is underpin the two programs which were established exactly what this budget says. Now the last year, programs that the farm community asked nonconfidence motion that the Liberal opposition for. Did they ask for it? Did they receive it? Yes, moved in this House says, we are not going to vote they did; they asked and they received. Are we in favour of reduced taxes, incentives to increase going to continue the program? If the farm manufacturing. We are not going to vote for that, they say. community wants to maintain those programs, we will continue them, if they want to maintain them. Well, that is their business. I say to you, that if the Are there other things we should be doing in opposition were serious about attracting and Agriculture? Yes, there are. Thereare many things providing an economic climate in this provincethat that we could be doing in Agriculture. We need to is attractiveto industry and the rest of society, they would, in fact, support this budget. provide more research money. We need to provide marketing expertise. We need to provide the Technology, should we increase our technology to expand the special crop spaces in this technological base in this province? Yes, I think we province. We need to expand the manufacturing should. Are the opposition members prepared to and processing end of it. We cannot only add to the vote for it? No, they are not. raw products which are being produced, but we • (1640) need to encourage even processing beyond the initial process. We need to put out some finished I say, the million dollars that we received from the products in this province, and we can use our sale of the Manitoba Data Serviceswill, in fact, allow primary renewable resource to do it-agriculture. us to spend some money to foster and create industrial innovation and technology and Mr. Speaker, we have some tremendous commercialization. Should we do that? The opportunities in this province. We have a soil base honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) that is second to none in all of Canada. We have a says, I think I am going to vote against this. climate base in the southern part of this province [interjection] Oh, he says he will vote against this. that will lend itself to producing crops the likes of March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1403

which we have never seen before if we only allow wants and needs? Are they going to support that? ourselves the vision to expand that industry. No, they will not. They have said they will not. They are going to vote against the increase in spending Ifwe acceptthe fact that overa three-year period in water services and agriculture. of time, we have been able to increase our exports by almost 20 percent, and if we acceptthe fact that Are they going to support the initiative that the that growth can in fact continue and be expanded task force in southern Manitoba has brought under the free trade initiative that we embarked forward, the plan that they put forward? Are they upon a number of years ago, and if we accept the going to support it? No, they will not. Yet those are fact that the North American continent trade pact the very basics;that is the infrastructure that rural can in fact be achieved and we allow ourselves to Manitoba needs in order to expand its base and be innovative enough andprovide the people of this bank upon an industrialization program and a province in rural Manitoba with the technology and processing development initiative that will provide the resources to do it, they are going to do it. the jobs for rural Manitoba. An Honourable Member: That are a lot of ifs. Can we provide the technology to do it? Yes, we Mr. Penner: That is right. The honourable can. Can this governmentprovide the support that member from the NDP benches says, there are a lot is needed out there to enhance rural Manitoba's of ifs here. That is exactly right, there are a lot of ifs. ability to produce for themselves? Yes, we can. Can we supply, can we be competitive in the The previous NDP administration never allowed international marketplace? There is no question themselves to be visionary. They sat there in their about that. Our farmers have the ability to produce self-serving attitude and said, we will not allow a better quality productand more of it than virtually ourselves to thinkbeyond the parameters of our own anybody else in the world. Yet the opposition is vision. We will not ask for support from the opposed totrading with other people. Theywant to agricultural community. What did they get? That is close the borders, throw up walls, build moretariffs exactly what they got, no support from the and box ourselves in and shut theireyes to the rest agricultural community, and what did they get? of the world. That is exactly what they got, no support from the agricultural community. We are going to work We need No. 1, the technology,the water in rural with-and I said "if' before-we are going to work Manitoba to be able to provide thatmanufacturing with that community. We are going to provide the base. We need No. 2, a highways program, the technology, and we are going to provide the likes of which this Minister of Highways (Mr. resources that are needed-namely, No. 1, water. Driedger) has initiated and this government has I want to talk a little bit about water, because you supported, an increase this year into the capital give people half an opportunity to provide for budget up to $1 13 million. Where were the NDP in themselves and they will. They will go all the way. their budgeting for capital?-$72 million the last year they were in power. This is a dramatic We put togethertwo years ago a task forcein the increase in our Highways budget. Red River Valley, a task force of people who had an interest in providing for themselves the ability to Highway 75, being the main arteryto the lifeblood expand and progress. That task force of this province, to the lifeblood of this city of recommended to this government that we should Winnipeg, and yet the NDP sit there and laugh put in place a networkof water delivery systems. I because we are four-laning Highway 75. They think we can do it, but we are going to need the should witness the traffic on Highway 75 every supportof the opposition. Will they supportus in it? morning and every evening that I drive back and No, they will not, because they are going to vote forth, and the heavy truck trafficthat flows south out againstthis budget. of this city and out of northern Manitoba. Will they vote for a $23-million increase in the Mr. Speaker, I have heard somuch criticism about agriculture budget to allow us to take the firstste ps, the Repap industry that is established in The Pas, to achieve the goals that we need to achieve? No, and yet every day of the week that I drive into this they will not. They have said that they are going to city, I meet lumber trucks heading which way? They vote against this budget. Are they going to support head south with a lumber productthat we produce us in supplying the water that southern Manitoba in this provinceand exportwhere? To our American 1404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

friends who love to buy our lumber. Yet the NDP Thompson (Mr. Ashton)? This is a major industry in said we should not depart of our free trade northernManitoba, yet they said we will vote against agreement. Will they support the budget to this. We do notwant the industry, because we are enhance our economic activity across the line? No, not going to provide incentives to the industry. they will not. Of course not. Similarly, the construction of a new powerproject, * (1 650) Conawapa, which will be a major, major employment initiative in northern Manitoba, and yet Transportation is not only an important aspect of what do we hear from the opposit ion? Simply that rural Manitoba . T ransportation and the we will not support, we do not want to support. Oh, transportation industry is anim portant employment they say, at this time, because, oh, yes, we would component in this city of Winnipeg. Many of the support it immediately if we were in government, I major trucking firms had their head offices located heard them say the other day. That is what we right in this city, and many of those trucking would do, you bet, but not as long as the PCs are agencies depend on the products that we produce going to initiate these kinds ofan issue. in this country for their livelihood. Yet when we look at the traffic coming south and north, heading both We are not going to be for it, but let me tell you, south and northdown Highway 75 into this province, the people of northern Manitoba are watching this and out of the province down Highway No. 1, both government very closely. They are watching the ways; it is becoming evermore evident that the city economic activities that we are going to create in of Winnipeg will become an increasingly important northern Manitoba. Those people are going to player in the transportation industry, whether it be decide who their representatives are going to be trucking or rail transportation or air transportation. next time around, and those people will, I believe, put in place representatives who will in fact support Many of the couriers are looking at Winnipeg to the industrialization and the development, the establish their head offices here . The rail modernization of northern Manitoba. transportation industry is looking at expanding their activities in this province. We recognize their will to We need to recognize what the previous NDP expand their operations in this city by lowering the government has refused to do in this province. fuel tax. What did the NDP do? They increased They have refused to recognize the creation of fuel taxes to not only the railway companies but, as wealth in rural northern Manitoba. well, the airlines. What are we doing? We are Our communities have been left and neglected lowering the tax on fuel so the courier industries and entirely by which government? How many years the railway industries can maintain their was the NDP government in power? What did they competitiveness and keep on moving goods do in northern Manitoba? Yet they have supported through this province and providing jobs to all of the NDP party virtually throughout their entire Manitoba. history. What have the NDP done for them? (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Acting Speaker, in the Nothing. Chair) We are going to demonstrate to northern Manitobans very clearly, whether they support us What are the NDP going to do? What are the politically or not, that it is our intention to provide Liberals going to do? Are the Liberals going to adequately for them and their communities by support the reduction of fuel tax to the transportation unities, by industry? No, they are going to vote against it. Are providing services to their comm providing jobs for their communities, and providing the Liberals and the NDP going to support the educational facilities, health facilities to their increased activity in the mining industry? Well, we communities. said very clearly that we are going to provide a mining tax holiday that will be introduced to permit Our Minister of Transportation (Mr. Driedger) has companies to recover their full investment in new been to Ottawa time and time and time ag ain mine priority in mining tax being applied. Will the arguing for the retention of the Port of Churchill and member for Rupertslan d (Mr. Harper) support this. the rail lines to Churchill. To do what? To maintain Will the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) support the job opportunities that are needed in those this? Will the member for Ain Flon (Mr. Storie) communities, to ensure those communities very support this? How about the member for existence. March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1405

What does the NDP do? The NDP has simply which, by the way, had been done by a young given a tremendous amount of lip serviceto those Canadian who couldnot at that time under the NDP communities, and yet those communities have seen administration-a young Manitoban, by the way, no action. who had not been able to get a job, becausehe was Let us look at the serious negotiations that have involved in the film industry, but had been hired by gone on in the Northern Rood Agreement. Never Norwayto do a film presentation on Norway. It was in the history of this provincehave we seen as much done in Australia, andall theNorway people did was advancement in negotiations of the settlement of the sell ice and snow andthe beauty of Ice and snow to Northern Flood Agreement than we have during the a countrythat had never seen ice and snow. last three years. What did the NDP do? They I think we have a similar opportunityto go into the totally ignore it, the Native communities and the southern United States, into countries such as need to settle once and for all the Northern Flood Japan, Australia, South America, Africa and many Agreement. other nations ofthe world that have virtually never There are, Mr. Acting Speaker, two areas that I experiencedour cold winter climate. We can build It want to say a few things about before I sit down. the tourism industryon our environment,be winter, One of themis tourism and the tremendous potential summer or any other season of the year. We can that this province has in tourism. I have heard time attract people to our natural resources, to the great and time again some criticism beingextended to our hunting that exists in this province. When we talk government, and maybe rightfully so, in the tourism about hunting, most of us see it as somebodypoint area. We do have a tremendous potential. We a gun, pull a trigger and shoot something. have a tremendoushuman resource living just south There are manyways of hunting. I, by theway , of our border, and yet we do very littleto attractthose hunt by camera. I have shot many, many deerand 250 million people into our province. We have I have shot many, many ducks, and you are never opportunities here, the likes of which very few out of season when you doit. I think we can attract provinces or very few countries have in theworld to that element of the tourism industry to Manitoba if attract thattourism traffic into our province. we only becomesomewhat innovative, but we need to go out and sell It, each and every one of us. Itis time that we took the initiative andspent some of sitting in thisCh dollars and expended some innovative time in Instead amber andtalking about the gloomand doom that exists in this province, but attracting those tourists to this province. We need only in the eyes of some, instead ofdoing that, we to, first of all, make more people aware that Manitoba exists. You do notneed to travel very far need to become more positive. south and ask people where Manitoba is; they do We need to take a positive attitude. We need to not know. TheAmericans simply do not know. The tell our own people that the recession is over. We Americans have simply paid very little attention to need to tell our people that the turnaround has what is northof the 49th parallel, very little attention. come. We need to tell our own people about the They know very little about the pristine environment beauty, to open their eyes and look at the beauty that we live in day to day. I believe that we can sell around them and then to go tell theirneighbours, our that aspect to the tourism industry. neighboursto the south, our neighbours to the west, and our neighbours to the east and the north to • (1700) come to Manitoba to enjoy with us what very few We just need to go to Chicago or Los Angeles or people in the world have. New York or any of the major centres and take an That is thevery environment that we live in every airplane and land in, say, Los Angeles virtuallyany day, and we take so much for granted. It takes only day of the week and look at the smog that you have a littlebit ofeffort. It takes only a little bit ofbelieving to land through. That is a sales pitch that we need in ourselves and our own ability to compete in that to start using. I think ifwe sell our clean water, our marketplace, whether it is in tourism,whether it is in clean country air, our clean environment in general, industry, or whether itis in the everyday commercial and use that as a tourism initiative. world. If we take a positive approach, and if we I have told this story many timesbefore , but I had believe in ourselves and our own ability, I believe the opportunity to go to Australia a number of years that not only can we turn this economy around, we ago. While in Australia, I saw the presentation, can make this agreat, great place to live in. 1406 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

Others will want to live where we live. Others will (Mr. Jack Reimer, Acting Speaker, in the Chair) want to emulate what we do, and others will become It is only within a short while, particularlythe last followersand we will be the leaders. But, Mr. Acting two years, that the Canadian people have finally Speaker, it takes an attitudinal change, and that is given the recognition. At least there is some debate the main ingredient that is required, not only in rural happening in this country. It was the aboriginal Manitoba but in all of Manitoba, in all of us, not only people in this country that welcomed many of your in the oppositionbut also in our own benches. It is ancestors. The members who are sitting here were going to take an attitudinal change to become very welcomed by my great-grandfathers, met on the positive about our ability to be very competitive in shores of maybe the St. Lawrence River or else on the world marketplace. the Pacific coast and also the Hudson Bay. Mr. Acting Speaker, that is why I think this Minister The aboriginal people played an important role in of Finance (Mr. Manness) needs to again be the development of this country. They shared the congratulatedfor putting forward a budget that will land and resources that many of the Canadians maintain spending on one side and increase and enjoy in this country. So do not tell me that we are enhance our services on the other side. That is a giving you this. very delicate juggling act, and our Premier (Mr. Filmon), our cabinet, our Treasury Board and the It is the aboriginal people that have given so much Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) should be given to this country. [interjection) I do not find it an accolade of support. amusing-whether he is directing it at me or not. The aboriginal people finally have made a point in The opposition members should stand in their this history, but we will see whether there is a places and applaud the Minister of Finance for this political will to recognize the aboriginal people, the budget, andthey should support the initiatives that first peoples in this country, and also to settle many we have begun. They should start believing in of the outstanding issues today. themselves andbelieving in ourselves and believing in Manitoba, and then, Mr. Acting Speaker, we will You look at the developments in the North In becomegreat in this nation I call Canada and I call respect to hydro development, in respect to the home. forestry development, in respect to the mining development. All those resources come from the Each and everyone ofus should proclaim that as northern part of this country. In all these years of being true Canadiansand putting all our differences development we see a flurry of economic activity in aside and ensuring that the future of this great nation many of those centres, whether it be Flin Flon, will be maintained for ourselves and our families. Churchill, Gillam, Thompson. Mr. EliJah Harper (Rupertsland): Mr. Acting How many people are employed there? How Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this Budget many people actually work there? How many Debate, the fifth budget of this government. aboriginal people do work there, surrounded by Since being elected in 1981 , I have witnessed those economic activities, our towns that have been much progress. Unfortunately, many examples of built up as a result of the hydro development,as a backtracking on a numberof issues has taken place result of the forestry products, as a result of the related to aboriginal people. mining towns, the resourcesthat are extracted, from those resources? I just heard the member speak on many issues concerning this country and how this country can * (1 710) develop into a great nation. As an aboriginal person In those years, Mr. Acting Speaker, aboriginal and member of the First Nations in this country, I people have been left out. You would think that the findthat we are always fighting an uphill battle and people who would most benefit from those trying to get the recognition of the aboriginal people resources would be the aboriginal people in this country, a recognition of the themselves right from their surrounding accomplishments of the first people, a recognition communities. Unfortunately, today we have very of the developments that we have been part of in few of the aboriginal people working in those this country. I know that I can go back into history centres, working in mining, working in hydro in terms of how we have been leftout as aboriginal development, working in forestry developments. people. The aboriginal people are pressured on March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1407

governmentsto put on programs, create economic government, they announced the northeast hydro activities strictly designed to encourage aboriginal line. That was a number of years ago. Those are people and northern aboriginal people to work in the initiatives I am talking about which this those areas. government is beginning to implement today. As an aboriginal person coming from northern I can tell you that when this project is finished, we Manitoba, we have such vast resources that we will remindthe constituents,my constituents, ofthat should be, as I said time and time again, the most initiative in 1986 . willI tell you, we will be the ones well-off people in this country. We have given so who will cut the ribbon. I do not talk with forked much to the land, to the resources. We still have tongue. I know what I am talking about. outstanding issues to deal with. I encourage the An Honourable Member: You may cut theribbon, Ministerof NorthernAffa irs (Mr. Downey), the Native but we are going to turn onthe lights. Affairs minister, to deal specifically with the treaty Mr. Harper: All you do is tum offthe lights. That is land entitlement. all. One of the reasons why we have notbeen able to Mr. Acting Speaker, there are many issues that settle thatis because of the lack of co-operation with we need to deal with and this particularly in the the federal government. I know that the Minister of province of Manitoba. I know that the Department Northern Affairs knows that when I was minister I of Northern Affairs has made some cuts in their passed an Order-in-Council to settlethe treaty land department. Of course, we will be debating thatin entitlement. Part of the problem was the federal the Estimates with the Minister of Northern Affairs government. The Minister of Indian Affairs, whose (Mr. Downey) as to exactly where the cuts have responsibility is to settlethe treaty land entitlement, been made. was not preparedto deal with this issue, and it sat Of course, this government also has to start on his desk and died there. working with the aboriginal people. I know there Also, I mentioned that when we were in has been some criticism of the lackof co-operation government we initiated many things. There is no between aboriginal leaders, because there is an imagination on the partof the government. Many of expectation on the part of the government to deal the thingsthat we initiated are a continuationof what with issues like the justice system. The justice we did. There is absolutely no imagination from this system, of course, points out to us thatit has failed governmentat all, nonewhatsoev er. Ifit was not for the aboriginal people in the province Manitoba.of our government, many of the things would not have There are many reasons why it has failed the happened. aboriginal people. We represent say 1 0 percent, 12 Youlook atthe urban developmentstra tegy. You percent, of thepopulation in Manitoba,but yet, inthe look at the hydro development. You look at the prisons, those institutions, we overrepresent the treaty land entitlement, thejustice inquiry, the Indian incarceration. Of the people in those institutions, in gaming commissions. All those things were some cases well over 50 percent are aboriginal initiated by ourselves. There is absolutely no people locked up. imagination whatsoever. I have not seen anything There are reasons why thisis happening. There new at all from this government,none whatsoever. are many aboriginal people whodo not know their They knew that the initiatives that we were working rights, who do not know the process. Many times on could not be just shoved aside. They were they do not know they have access to legal counsel, forced to deal with those issues. and there are many times they cannot afford the You look at the hydro, northeast hydro legal counsel. There are many times theprocess is development. We announced, as a matter offact, so inadequate that many of these people who in 1986to build that hydro line. As a matter of fact, provide those services do not have time to explain a letter was written in 1986 in November to the to people-Crown attorneys, lawyers. Minister of Indian Affairs. I remember the letter. Many times in our language there is difficulty in Also, the following year, there was also a translating the legal language into an aboriginal subsequent letter written to the Minister of Indian language. I will give you an example. There is a Affairsto proceed withthe northeast hydro line. As guilty andnot guilty. If you ask an aboriginal, let us a matter of fact, in the first throne speech of this say if he broke a window, and it might be in a 1408 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

circumstance where it was accidental. If you ask that community, the person would be able to directly him if he was guilty, ofcourse, the aboriginal would relate to that, that he has done something wrong say that he was guilty of the incident. against the community or against the individual, because many people see the whole justice process • (1 720) as being totally alien. There is no understanding of the processin terms I think the community has also a responsibility of whether the thing was committed accidentally or because that person is from that community. They not, and many reasons why a lot of times the have an obligation to that individual. Once that aboriginal person would just plead guilty. Other person is taken away from the community, many of times it might be just a tremendous sort of a shock the community leaders do not know what is to go through the procedure in terms of an happening to that individual. That is what we are intimidating circumstance in the chambers or in a trying to rectify. I do not think it demeans the justice court room, that some people would just not bother system, but rather the punishment that may be given going through the process. We have many by the people or by the courts in the reserve would aboriginal people as a result of misunderstanding, have a better impact, a better result for the or being intimidated, or not completely advised of individual. their rights, the reasons why many ofthe people end up in jails. All our lives as aboriginal people,if we look at the history, is to remove Indian people and subject them One of the main recommendations that the to a institution. That has been going on for many Aboriginal Justice Inquiry made to the government, years; I do not need to elaboratethat in terms of the and suggested to the government, a strong policies of the government. I think everybody recommendation, is that a parallel and a separate knows well of the policies of the government, the justice system be established for aboriginal people. federal government,in terms of policies of genocide, That recommendation has been made by the policies of assimilation and integration, and in many Canadian Bar Association before that. They are the of those communities, we see the results of those ones who work in the judicial system, and they are policies. the ones who understand the legal process. They are in a position to understand that there is a need You talk about the dignity of people, but after for aboriginal people to establish a separate justice years of assault against our people, you know, system. telling aboriginal people in this country that they cannot practise their religion, their spirituality, they I find it incredible that this government is not cannot speak their language, they cannot dance. prepared to establish that, although they have Those are things that the governments did many endorsed the inherent right to self-government in a years ago, but today those things have an impact constitutional proposal for aboriginal people. Part on us. of that judicial system is the ability of the aboriginal people to administer and controltheir lives so they The residential school system is a classic are able to determine their future. It does not mean example of using the educational institutions to that we are more special than anyone else in assimilate Indian people, to deny them their Manitoba. What it means is to be able to deal with language and their culture, that we were not worthy, those issues at the local level. that we were not good enough. That is why I say that as aboriginal people, we have been able to We will be able to deal with some ofthose crimes overcome that, and there are many problems today that may be committed in a community, some of as a result of that. We see that happening today. those break-ins, all those things that are committed. In many of those communities that I talk about, we What happens today is that a lot of the charges have unemployment well over 90 percent. towards individuals are dealt with in a foreign institution. People who commit the crime do not feel There is no hope for many of our young people. they have committed a crime againstthe community They do not seem to see the light at the end of the or against the individual because they are taken tunnel, that there is no reason to live, that there was away, isolated and locked up in Winnipeg. If the no purpose in life. It is tragic, it is shameful that we community is able to impose on a crime, impose cannot give that kind of opportunity to our children. some sort of a punishment against an individual in The children are the future of this country, the future March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1409

of our nations. This is so tragic, to see many of our Red Sucker Lake. As aboriginal people, our young people commit suicide, that they have no philosophy has been one of sharing, one that reason to live, but a reason to die, because it is extends the hand of welcome to everybody, sothat doom and gloom. everyone would benefit from the land and I think partof that process is to educate our young, resources, but the governments have not that there are indeed things possible in this world, reciprocatedthatto our aboriginalcommunities, and things possible in Manitoba, things possible in that is a philosophy that my grandparents taught me, northernManitoba, that they are able to live, able to our elders taught us for manygeneration s. be trained, able to be who they want to be. You know, you wonder where we are going today, You know, lfind it amazing or incredible that when what is happening in this country, whether we are people talk about the recession in this country, but going to break up? What is happening in the world the inflation is up, the cost of living has gone up, the and all over in terms of our wealth. dollar is going down and the priceof goods are going Recently I went to speak to a group of young up. people, youngchildren. I was lookingat some of the In northern Manitoba prices are exaggerated. I statisti� that were presented to me. One of the mean, the prices of goods are really high. We live statisticsthat amazed me was that, in terms ofthe in a constant environment of depression, never world's goodsthat are produced,50 percentof the mind just recession. Why is the price of milk world's goods are consumed by only 5 percent of tremendously high? Even gasoline is higher. I the population, that there is an imbalance of the think we were paying close to $5 a gallon in Red distribution of wealth and the goodsin thisworld. Sucker Lake, and that is really high. Some of the Also, in terms of on a per capita basis worldwide basic needs of staple foods that are neededcost a on health care, we spend, I think, $1 1 worldwide, lot of money. People have begunto question some $1 1 compared to $44 on military spending, four of theitems, why they are so high. times greater spentthan on health. I am nottalking We find it amazing toothat in the North,whether about education figures, I am sure they are lower it be in Churchill or Gillam, you are able to buy a than that. bottle of liquorat the same price as what you pay in You know, as mankind, as human beings, we Winnipeg. The same price probably being have been able to achieve many things. We have subsidized by taxpayers,so that people can buya sent man on the moon, I mean a great bottleof alcohol at the same price as in Winnipeg, accomplishment in this human race. I wonder but you cannot buy milk for our children at the same sometimes, like, we have starving children all over priceas what you pay in Winnipeg, let us say, in Red the world. We cannot even feed those children. Sucker Lake. There is a higher cost to pay in order That is why I say,not necessarily to thisgove rnment to feed our children. in terms of where we are going as human beings, I think we need to think aboutthat, wherewe place that there needs to be more of a co-operation. our values and our priorities, because I often think I say those things because as an aboriginal that we can be a very wealthy country in terms of person, those are the very things that we are the distribution of wealth in thiscountry. concernedabout in terms of sharing and caring and • (1730) being able to live in this country, so that no one needs togo hungry, no one needs to be lining up for Many people here enjoy a high standard of living food banks. in southern Canada which has becomesort of, in a sense, an expected kind of standard of living. Many Many of the communities where I come from do of our people live in Third World conditions, and why not have food banks. Theyare able to rely on many is that happening? Even many of the elders are of the still-traditional activities of huntingand fishing thankful for anything that the government does, to supplement theirincome or foodsources. Those because they do not realize the kind of conditions, are some of thethings that we need to resolve with the standard of living that Canadians enjoy. the provincial governments in terms of treaty land I knowwhen I was growing up I did not know how entitlement and the treaties. a world existed much beyond Red Sucker Lake, and I think when I mention those figures and also the kind of things that were happening outside of talked about the philosophy of sharing, that it is 1410 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

those qualities that have kept us going for line, the list is endless. We did many things. Like I generations and enabled us to survive the policies said, he had no imagination. of the government. What we are asking for is In terms of the budget, Mr. Acting Speaker, I think nothing more, nothing less, and that all we want to we would want to go into details with that. I know do is have the ability to maintain our language and that the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) culture, be able to protect it, that we are able to would want to question where his priorities lie on the administer our own affairs, able to have our own cutbacks that he has made to his department and governments,self-go vernments for our own people. the transfer of programs from one department to An Honourable Member: The problems will not go another department to make it look like he has away, Elijah, the problems will not go away. increased his departmental Estimates. Mr. Harper: The member says the problems would We will do that in the budget Estimate process not go away, but I think we have a greater when we have discussions with him in the responsibility, a greater input. I think we have been committee. I just want to put thosethings on record excluded for far too long to make a difference. and say that I have had the pleasure of speaking to this budget and we will get to the details in the As a memberin this Legislature, I think we have committee process. been able to get the Legislative Assembly, the people of Manitoba and this country able to listen. Thank you, Mr. Acting Speaker. A lot of the things that are done by this government, * (1740) cutbacks and everything, are actually creating not Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Acting any hope for many of the northern people. Speaker, it gives me pleasure today to rise and just Like I said, many initiatives that we did are a put a few words- continuation of this government. There are no new ideas. I am very serious. He knows that. He Point of Order knowsthat many of the things that we did-1 mean we can hold debate till freezes over, who initiated Mr. Gaudry: Can we have some French from the these things, and I am just pointing out that there is member for St. Norbert, please? lack of imagination on the part of this government The Acting Speaker {Mr. Reimer): The and the things that they have done. honourable memberdid not have a point of order.

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why we *** were not able to sign the northeast hydro line was the lack of political will on the part of the federal Mr. Laurendeau: Merci, Monsieur le president par government that they were not willing to deal with interim. On va essayer de faire Q8 pour le membra us. de St-Boniface (M. Gaudry) aujourd'hui si c'est possible. Ca fait que, s'il me donne un couple de One of thethings that happened in the last year minutes, on va etre Ia. or so, particularlylast fall, is this governmentwanted to sign an agreement, but the community leaders did [Translation) not want to sign it, because they wereexcluded, and Mr. Laurendeau: Thank you, Mr. Acting Speaker. they had to force them to deal with that issue until We will attempt to do that for the benefit of the the communities were actually involved in that member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) today. So if issue. he gives me a couple of minutes, we will get there. There are many things that they want to go ahead [English] and rush without the involvement of aboriginal Mr. Acting Speaker, today it gives me great people. They did not deal with them seriously. pleasure to rise and speak on the budget. I am I There were many issues that we dealt with. Like really more than happy to congratulate not only our said, I know this minister is embarrassed because Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), but our Treasury he has no imagination whatsoever. Time and time Board for bringing forth a budget that I have not again will prove that. heard any complaints from anyone except the In terms of the treaty land entitlement, urban prophets of doom and gloom on the other side of the strategy, the Justice Inquiry, the northeast hydro House. I cannot understand how anyone, anyone March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 141 1

except the NDP, could knock us for a budget that province is the trunk of that fruit-bearing tree. has no increases in the personal income taxes, no Where does that fruit-bearing tree get itsenergy and increases in business taxes, no increases in sales all the rest? It gets it from the root, but that root tax, and a $101 million-5.7 percent-increase in needs to be fed. It needs to be nourished, and that Health. is what this government is doing within this budget. Here we are, 5.7 percent in Health and they are It is nourishing the roots to give the roots energy to is telling us- produce the fruit that necessary forthis province. An Honourable Member: Tum it over. You know,Mr. Acting Speaker, we are putting $20 million towards initiatives in Manitoba, industrial Mr. Laurendeau: The honourable member from recruitment initiatives. pnterjection] I do believe he over there is trying to give me some information. I called me an-Ido believe he is stating something, am sure the information he is trying to give me is the and I would really like to hear it clear. I am sure the information going back to 1984 about his Leader honourable member is not trying to say that I am who was the minister of, I believe it was the-what unhonourable. I mean, if he wants to, he could put was it again? I think, oh, yes, it was the minister of thaton the record and I would be more than willing Crown corporations. That was the year that they to listen to it. sortof fudged the books, some called it cooking the books, some called it just rearranging the books,but Mr. Acting Speaker, there is one thing that we theirgovernment called it a $165 million deficit, Mr. have got to learn to doand that isget along in this Speaker. That is what they called it. The Auditor province. We have got to work as a team, and until General of the time said, no, I cannot go out and lie. the doom-and-gloom prophets of that side of the He said it in the paper, he said, I cannot say this. It House come forward and start working with us to is a $428 million deficit. Howcan I say that? renew the investment in the province of Manitoba, How did the NDP, how did that minister at that there is going be problems. time in 1984cook the books? He went and he This province has got to work withlabour andwith stalled, he stalled and he lied, Mr. Speaker. He management and with industryto form a union, and turned around and he called $125 million, we will not that is what this governmentis goingto do. That is bring that forward, thatwas MPIC. Manitoba Hydro, what this government is accomplishing within this we do not want to hear about yourlosses. MTS, we budget. Itwas a hard jobfor our Minister of Finance do not want to hear about your losses, but that is (Mr. Manness) to bring forward a budget, I believe, what they hid. They hid the truth. They hid the and I cannot believe howgood a job he did. truth. That is what they did when they were in The thingsthat are coming forward, $101 million power. Theycooked the books. I cannot believe it. for Health-5.7 percent increase. In social I have a quote from the Finance minister, Vic services, there is an 8. 7 percent increase-8.7 Schroeder, his airy way of dismissing a just percent. Yet the doom-and-gloom prophets from accounting opinion, the concerns of Provincial the other side with their budget, through their Auditor William Ziprick about his budget process. I make-believe policymakers in the Choices group, cannot believe it, Mr. Speaker, you know, the came forward. Theywanted a 5 percent increase. prophets of doom and gloom. Thatis all we ever get from the other side of the House is doom and gloom, Nowhere we tum around and give an 8.7. Now where could they be comingfr om? Howcould they doom and gloom. state 8.7 versus 5 percent? You know, I cannot An Honourable Member: Aip it over. believe that this is the NDP people in there. What Mr. Laurendeau: You want me to flip it over for did the NDP government do in Ontario, 1 percent? you, George? The other side, George, is really I am scared to see what they are going to do in interesting, and I believe the other side should be British Columbia and Saskatchewan. I challenge brought forward to you, George. The honourable the otherprov inces, not only the provinceswith NDP member, I mean, the honourable member, I forgot and Liberal and Conservative, all governments, to we cannot-it is the honourable. follow our Minister of Finance's (Mr. Manness) Mr. Speaker, I think it is time we start looking at stand. this province as a fruit. That fruit off of that tree has I challenge those provinces to follow what this to get its nourishment from somewhere. The province is doing with a vision for the future. That 1412 LEGISLATIVEASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

is what this province is doing, a vision for the future. ici a Winnipeg, a St-Boniface, et nous allons We are bringing forward initiatives that will aid the travailler ensemble encore. people of this province. We are bringing forward (Translation) initiatives that will be brought forward in Education, in Health, in social services, the three major He is sincere. The member for St. Boniface is departments within the province. That is the main sincere, Mr. Acting Speaker. He understands that, area that we are hitting, Mr. Acting Speaker. for the citizens not only of St. Boniface but of the The Liberals speak from their seats, and that is all province of Manitoba, he is going to work for the they ever do is speak from their seats because they province of Manitoba to see to it that we can all be are usually sittingon a fence, and they are too busy mixed together, if one might put it that way. We are falling off it in either direction. They can never a province with two languages. I am happy to be decide where they are going to fall. one of the Francophones of the province of Manitoba. It is a pleasure for me to work with the member for St. Boniface on various occasions here Point of Order in Winnipeg and in St. Boniface, and we are going Mr. Gaudry: Ali i want to put on record right now is to continue to work together. I think what we have to do is educate the [English] government. Mr. Acting Speaker, in this province we have got The AcUng Speaker (Mr. Reimer): The member one direction thatwe have to head in. We have to for St. Boniface does not have a point of order. move forward into the future. We cannot have a

*** negative doom-and-gloom look all the time. Nobody can say governments will always be Mr. Laurendeau: I am glad the honourable heading in the right direction. They do make member said that. I am really happy that the mistakes. If you do not make mistakes, you have honourable member for St. Boniface stood today not tried. and said that, becausethat is thefirst little bitof logic There are a number of directionsthat we will have I have heard from the opposition side. All they ever to head off to in the future, and those directions, I come up with is negative, negative, negative. Not believe, are a necessity after what we have lived the member for St. Boniface though, he has had through with the NDP government creating debtsfor some positive comments, I must give him that. The us in the past, Mr. Acting Speaker. The NDP debts member for St. Boniface hasbeen very constructive were increased just immensely in the years past. I in some of his criticism. would like to go into the figures, but I am not going As a matterof fact, his criticism was very small. I to. I do believe that we cannot live in the past. I will be surprised if he votes against this budget. I think we have to live for the future, and if I keep think he Is going to have a hard time opposing this revisiting the past,it just makes me sick. I think, for budget. I think he is understanding, capable, and the benefit of our province, it is time we start living will understand that this budget is for the province for the future andforget that the past ever happened. of Manitoba and the people of Manitoba. This Forget that we ever had an NDP government. That member for St. Boniface wants to support this would be the best because the nightmare is over, budget. I can tell by his feeling. and we have a progressive government in power * (1750) today that is going to see that this province is II est sincere. Le membra de St-Boniface, il est nourished in the future. sincere, Monsieur le president par interim. II Mr. Acting Speaker, take the apple, take away the comprend que pour les citoyens non seulement de core, and what have you got? Nothing. Take an St-Boniface mais de Ia province du Manitoba, il va apple with just the core, and what have you got? travailler pour Ia province du Manitoba a voir que You have got nothing. To keep the core whole, you nous semmes melanges ensemble si on peut ainsi need that protection around it, and that is why some dire. Nous sommes une province de deux langues. of the initiatives that we are bringing forward within Je suis content d'etre un des Francophones de Ia this budget is to assist not only the city but the province du Manitoba. J'ai plaisir a travailler province as a whole. The VLTs' profits going into !'honorable depute de St-Boniface a des occasions, ready and the rest of the programs coming forward March 18, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1413

will assist in the development of new initiatives inthe Highway which they do not seem to be taking into communities surrounding the province. account. Mr. Acting Speaker, there are new programs An Honourable Member: A million dollars a year, coming forward that assist not only a small diverse the next five years. group, but the whole province,minin g initiatives that Mr. Laurendeau: That Is correct, there is the are coming forward that will assist the North. It is million dollars over the next fi Ve years. I mean, how time that the NDP learned that you cannot just listen this union could say that we were neglecting the city to some certainspecial interest groups. They have of Winnipeg, I cannot understand it, except for that got to take the entire impact on the province as a the leader of that union is more concerned with whole. himself, I believe, and his existence, than he is in the existence of the city of Winnipeg. If he was Mr. Acting Speaker, transportation is very concerned for the city of Winnipeg, he might have important in our province. Within this budget we talked to his people in the union and asked them to have decreased the fuel tax for locomotives. I think take maybe a littlebit less this year in this tight time. that was a very importantstep takenby our minister, But no, they went for the big increase. They went seeing as the impact on the transportation of rail has for the increase and council gave it to them. So I been degressing over the past years. We have put mean It is their fault for giving Itto them. $103 million into the highways program this year. Mr. Acting Speaker, we get knockedas a province When the NDP were in power, it had decreased to from the city all the time. I think it is timethey look in the $60-million range. at their own selves and see how they are managing Mr. Acting Speaker, this budget reaffirms the dollars, because we as a government are Manitoba's commitment to the national highways learning to manage our dollars. I think they, with program and has renewed its request for federal their wisdom, have to learn to manage their dollars investment in the program. We are working on that are allocatedto them. It is nice to say, we need Pembina Highway right now, trying to get itdone. more, we need more, we need more, but eventually The provincecomm itted in 1988some fundsto the you have to say, enough is enough. We cannot city to see thatproje ct move ahead. The city in its spend, spend, spend. wisdom kept deleting it and deleting it. I hope the The people have said they do not want tax city, with theirwisdom, will see thatthis is something increases. The people have spoken out. The that is importantnot only to the city of Winnipeg, but people are coming out and saying in large numbers, the province of Manitoba. We need it for tourism, we do not want any more tax increases of any kind. we need it for industry,and we need it for safety. They are explaining the services thatthey are willing Mr. Acting Speaker, the highways program not to lose, not only at the city level, but at the provincial only benefits, again, the city of Winnipeg, but all of level. the province, because the arteriesthat lead into the They are startingto ask for user fees within certain city of Winnipeg are the veins that bring our areas, but they want value for their money, Mr. economic benefits to us. Without the people Acting Speaker. That is what this government is transporting themselves to our city to buy, our city going to see that the people of thisprovince get,and would starve itself out. When you get people that is value for their money. bringing up initiatives to bring forthtollgates, well, I Mr. Acting Speaker, I believe it is about time that think if we start penalizing people for coming to the this Legislature starts listening to the people. This city of Winnipeg, then we will have a problem in the government is listening. city of Winnipeg. The NDP come up with their doom-and-gloom I got a little upset on the weekend when I read tactics all the time and knock us for what we are advertisementsby a union knockingour provincefor doing but that is their job. They are the opposition, the funding that we gave to the city this year, Mr. and the opposition's job is to doom and gloom, I Acting Speaker. We increased it 4 percent. I felt guess. That is not the way I took it, but that is what I that was more than fair-a more than fair increase they do, so take it is doom and gloom. for the City of Winnipeg. On top of that, there was Mr. Acting Speaker, to criticize is not doom and $12mill ion allocated for the construction of Pembina gloom. If they were to be doing some constructive 1414 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 18, 1992

criticism, maybe then we would listen, but when all Let us hear them speak out against what we are they do is knock, knock, knock, nobody is going to doing with a $1 01-million increase in Health. Let us answer the door for them. Nobody is going to hear them speak out against a $51 -million increase answer the door, because we are tired of hearing to Family Services. Let us hear them speak out the same rhetoric over and over and over again. about a $1 O-m illion reduction in the provincial That is all we ever hear, knock, knock, knock, knock, education taxes for the homes, Mr. ActingSpeak er. knock. No, they do not speak out against those issues, because they know that is what the people of this Why do they not try criticizing and using some province want. That is what this government is positive techniques? I am sure that they are giving them. capable of it. I knowthe honourable members from the other side could go back and get their minds Thank you. together and circle an issue and come forward with The Acting Speaker (Mr. Reimer): Order, please. some positive reactions. When this matter is nex1 before the House, the I want to hear some negative from them on-what honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. is so negative about no increase in personal income Laurendeau) will have 20 minutes remaining. taxes, Mr. Acting Speaker? What is so negative about no increases in business taxes? What is The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned negative about no increase in sales tax? Let us and stays adjourned until 1 :30 p.m. tomorrow hear them knockthat. (Thursday). LegislativeAssembly of Manitoba

Wednesday, March 18, 1992

CONTENTS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Manitoba Heritage Foundation Lamoureux; Mitchelson 1372 Presenting Petitions Vegetable Producing Industry Fight Back Against Child Abuse Campaign Connery; Findlay 1373 Barrett 1365 Hickes 1365 North American Free Trade Agreement Connery; Findlay 1373 Criminal Code Amendment, Family Violence Cerilli 1365 Broadway House Barrett; Gilleshammer 1374 Reading and Receiving Petitions Co-operative Housing Criminal CodeAmendment, Family Violence Martindale; Ernst 1374 Dewar 1365 Constitutional Issues Fight Back Against Child Abuse Campaign Martindale; Ernst 1375 Barrett 1365 Nonpolitical Statement Criminal Code Amendment, Family Violence Reid 1366 South Africa, Human Rights Chomiak 1366 Harper 1375

Oral Questions NorthAme rican Free Trade Agreement Doer; Filmon; Stefanson 1366 ORDERS OF THE DAY Aboriginal Justice ln0iry Report Harper; McCrae; owney 1368 Budget Debate School Division Bound� Review Neufeld 1375 Carstairs; Filmon; V rey 1369 Chomiak 1377 Core Area Initiative Mitchelson 1385 Friesen; Ernst 1370 Gaudry 1390 Penner 1400 Human Resources Opportunity Centre Harper 1406 Dewar; Gilleshammer 1371 Laurendeau 1410