LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8943

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Wednesday, 22 April 2015

The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN

THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN

THE HONOURABLE KUN-SUN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG

DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-HING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P.

8944 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H.

PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N.

THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C.

THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8945

THE HONOURABLE WAI-YIP

THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN

THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN

THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING

THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING

THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN

DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK

THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG

THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG

8946 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG

THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PIK-WAN

THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN

DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S.

MEMBERS ABSENT:

DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8947

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MRS CARRIE LAM CHENG YUET-NGOR, G.B.S., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSANG CHUN-WAH, G.B.M., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE KWOK-KEUNG, S.C., J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

PROF THE HONOURABLE BING-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

THE HONOURABLE TSANG TAK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

THE HONOURABLE GREGORY SO KAM-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND TAM CHI-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE LAI TUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY

THE HONOURABLE EDDIE NG HAK-KIM, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TANG KWOK-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE

8948 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

DR THE HONOURABLE KO WING-MAN, B.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, M.H., J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

MS FLORENCE HUI HIU-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

MR KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL

MRS JUSTINA LAM CHENG BO-LING, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL

MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8949

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood before the Chief Secretary for Administration holding a placard and a pile of fake dung)

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in ): President, I want to present a gift to the Chief Secretary, may I?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please return to your seat immediately.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, I just want to present a gift to the Chief Secretary.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, return to your seat immediately, or I will order you to leave the Chamber. You have violated the Rules of Procedure.

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung still did not return to his seat)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, return to your seat immediately, or I will order you to leave the Chamber.

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung returned to his seat with the assistance of security officers)

TABLING OF PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation/Instrument L.N. No.

Import and Export (Strategic Commodities) Regulations (Amendment of Schedule 1) Order 2015 (Commencement) Notice ...... 77/2015

8950 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Other Papers

No. 89 ─ Research Endowment Fund Financial statements for the year ended 31 August 2014

No. 90 ─ Report No. 64 of the Director of Audit on the results of value for money audits ─ April 2015

Report No. 17/14-15 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

International Radical and Terrorist Organizations' Activities in Hong Kong

1. MR CHRISTOPHER CHUNG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that some people have recently distributed flyers to Indonesian domestic helpers (IDHs) at locations where IDHs gather during holidays, recruiting them to join the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an international radical organization, and claiming that after joining the organization, they will be sent to carry out "missions" in Xinjiang. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has assessed if the following acts are illegal: (i) openly pledging one's allegiance to ISIL, (ii) openly claiming one's membership of that organization, (iii) propagating that organization's doctrines and propositions, and (iv) persuading others to join that organization; if such acts are illegal, of the details of the relevant legal provisions; of the respective numbers of Hong Kong residents, visitors and expatriates living in Hong Kong arrested in the past two years for committing such acts;

(2) whether the authorities will, in response to the aforesaid incident, consider rolling out publicity and education work for the purpose of appealing to IDHs in Hong Kong to refrain from joining ISIL and to report to the Police any person suspected of recruiting members for that organization;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8951

(3) of the number of visitors entering the territory from ISIL-controlled areas in each of the past three years, and whether it knows the number of Hong Kong residents travelling to those areas in each of the past three years;

(4) given that some Western countries have now implemented departure restrictions prohibiting their nationals from going to ISIL-controlled areas to prevent them from joining that organization, whether similar departure restrictions are currently imposed in Hong Kong; if so, of the details; if not, whether the authorities will explore the imposition of such restrictions;

(5) as it has been reported that ISIL has become increasingly active around the world, whether the Security Bureau and the Police have formulated corresponding measures to closely monitor and guard against the infiltration of ISIL members into Hong Kong; and

(6) whether it knows the number of terrorist organizations currently carrying out activities in Hong Kong; of the main channels through which the Government gathers intelligence relating to terrorist organizations?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, our consolidated reply to various parts of the question is as follows:

Hong Kong has a strong legal framework and law-enforcement capacity to prevent and tackle terrorism. Various terrorist acts, as well as the collection of funds, supply of weapons and recruitment of members, and so on, for terrorists and terrorist bodies are punishable under various ordinances. Among them, the United Nations (Anti-Terrorism Measures) Ordinance (Cap. 575) (the Ordinance) provides that the authority may, from time to time, specify terrorists and terrorist bodies in accordance with the latest announcement of the United Nations. The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant has been specified as a terrorist body under the Ordinance. According to section 10 of the Ordinance, a person commits an offence if becomes a member or recruits another person to become a member of a specified body, and is liable to imprisonment for seven years on conviction. Section 3 of the Ordinance stipulates that such an offence applies to a Hong Kong permanent resident outside Hong Kong. In other words, it is against the law for a Hong Kong citizen to join in any places such terrorist bodies as a member. 8952 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Strengthening counter-terrorism work is one of the operational priorities of the Commissioner of Police in 2015. The (the Police), will continue to monitor trends of terrorist activities to ensure readiness at all times. They will also provide security advice for critical infrastructure and sensitive premises, and arrange counter-terrorism patrols. The Police will also conduct training and multi-agency exercises regularly to practise and enhance counter-terrorism contingency plans to prepare for emergencies.

The Police have been conducting timely assessments of the terrorist threat for Hong Kong, and maintaining close liaison with law-enforcement agencies of other regions to exchange intelligence and threat assessments. At present, there is no specific intelligence suggesting that Hong Kong is a potential target of terrorist attack, and the threat of terrorist attacks for Hong Kong remains at the "moderate" level. No one was arrested for terrorist activities during the past two years. If any unlawful acts are identified, the Police will take resolute enforcement actions.

Further, Article 154(2) of the Basic Law stipulates that the Hong Kong Government may apply immigration controls on entry into, stay in and departure from the Hong Kong by persons from foreign states and regions. In handling immigration cases, the Immigration Department (ImmD) will, having regard to the circumstances of the visitor concerned and all relevant factors in each case, decide whether the entry will be allowed in accordance with Hong Kong law and the prevailing immigration policies. If a visitor does not satisfy the immigration requirements, officers of the ImmD may refuse his entry into Hong Kong after examination of the visitor. The ImmD does not maintain statistics mentioned in part (3) of the question.

Emergency Calls

2. MS CYD HO (in Chinese): President, according to a press release issued by the Police on 21 February this year, the various Regional Command and Control Centres (RCCCs) received a total of 2 323 016 calls in 2014, of which only 1 289 475 (about 55.5%) were genuine. The remaining 1 033 541 were nuisance or misdialled calls. The Police have all along been appealing to the public not to misuse the 999 hotline service, and members of the public in need may look up the telephone numbers of police stations in various districts on the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8953 police web site or the Hong Kong Police Mobile Application (App) so as to seek assistance directly from police stations. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) how the 999 Emergency Telephone System and sub-system (ETS and sub-system) tell if calls are genuine, nuisance or misdialled calls; whether the systems have been equipped with an interactive voice response system for diverting or routing non-emergency calls to different police districts or other hotline systems of the Government;

(2) of the details of the manpower deployment for answering 999 emergency calls in various RCCCs; whether the staff members responsible for answering calls have received training on the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232) and relevant legislation, and whether the Police have provided guidelines to these staff members to assist them in identifying if the calls are emergency calls and the nature of such calls;

(3) of the service performance of the Police in responding to 999 emergency calls last year, including the number of calls answered within nine seconds, and the numbers of calls from Hong Kong Island/Kowloon and from the New Territories the response time of which were within nine minutes and 15 minutes respectively;

(4) how ETS and sub-system handle the situation where all the 999 hotlines of an RCCC are engaged and there is a sudden surge of calls; whether the way of handling is to automatically route calls to other RCCCs or government hotline systems; if so, of the number of additional staff members that can be temporarily deployed to answer the routed emergency calls and the time needed for making such manpower deployment; of the impacts of the automatic call routing measure on call answering time and on the time required for sending police officers to the scene;

(5) how many times for which ETS and sub-system have been updated since their introduction; of the details of the expenditure involved in each updating exercise, and when the systems' serviceable life will expire; and

8954 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(6) how many times for which the App has been updated since its launch; of the expenditures involved in its development and in each updating exercise, and the respective numbers of downloads of various versions; of the number and nature details of cases seeking assistance through the App in each of the past three years and, among such cases, the number of those identified as nuisance or missent cases?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, according to section 10 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), the duties of the Police are, inter alia, preserving the public peace, protecting personal safety, and preventing crimes and injury to property. Upon receipt of requests for assistance from the public in case of unforeseen or emergency incidents, the Police shall perform their statutory duties by immediately deploying officers to the scene to understand the situation, provide assistance or conduct investigation.

The Police have been appealing to the public to use the 999 hotline service only for emergencies, and not to misuse the 999 hotline service. Misusing the emergency hotline would not only affect Police's efficiency in handling emergencies, but might also endanger the lives of people-in-need by delaying their requests for police assistance from getting through.

If needed, members of the public may also seek help directly from police stations in various districts where most non-emergency cases and requests for assistance can be promptly handled. A list of contact numbers of police stations is available on the police website or the Hong Kong Police Mobile Application (App).

The Government's reply to the question raised by Ms Cyd HO is as follows:

(1) Currently, there are three Regional Command and Control Centres (RCCCs) of the Police for answering 999 calls via their 999 consoles. Upon receipt of such calls, RCCC officers will determine the nature of cases in accordance with internal guidelines. For emergency cases, RCCCs will immediately dispatch police officers to handle these cases. As regards non-emergency cases, callers will LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8955

be advised to contact respective district police stations for assistance. If cases should more suitably be dealt with by other government departments, callers will be advised to approach relevant government departments directly.

(2) and (4)

The Police will ensure sufficient manpower for answering 999 calls. Currently, there are in total about 70 operators specifically responsible for answering 999 calls at 999 consoles of the three RCCCs. These operators work on shifts to provide 24-hour service. In case of a sudden surge of calls in a particular RCCC, other operators of the same RCCC will help answer 999 calls. If necessary, the 999 Emergency Telephone System (ETS) can also switch some 999 calls to the other two RCCCs. The Police will flexibly deploy in-house manpower to assist with the answering of 999 calls in order to maintain service delivery in this regard and ensure prompt handling of emergency cases.

RCCC officers are well-trained on relevant ordinances, guidelines, work procedures, and the service of answering of 999 calls, and so on. Also, the Police have in place stringent operational guidelines for RCCC officers to determine whether a call is emergency or not as well as the nature of cases, with a view to ensuring proper handling of all cases.

(3) The Police have been striving to respond to all 999 emergency calls within the performance pledge of nine minutes in Hong Kong and Kowloon, and 15 minutes in the New Territories. The response time is measured from the receipt of a report by a RCCC 999 console until Police arrival at the scene. According to the Police, most emergency cases are attended to within the pledged response time.

In 2014, a total of 2 323 016 calls were received by RCCC 999 consoles of the Police. Amongst these calls, over 90% were answered within nine seconds; and there were 90 532 emergency cases requiring police assistance. Of these emergency cases, 98.7% were attended to within the pledged response time.

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(5) The third generation of the 999 ETS has been in operation since 2004. As the system has been in use for many years, the hardware and software of some sub-systems are no longer supported. The Police are preparing to refresh the relevant sub-systems in order to extend the service life of the 999 ETS as far as possible. The refreshing exercise is initially expected to complete within one year. The expenditure is included under the provision for the "Replacement of Command and Control Communications System for the Operations Department of the Hong Kong Police Force" approved by the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council in 2001. The Police will carry out regular maintenance and checks of the system to ensure its reliable and stable service.

(6) Since its launch on 18 July 2012, the App has gone through six enhancement versions. The initial development cost of the App was $750,000, and the expenses of its subsequent enhancement were absorbed by in-house resources of the Police. As at 31 March 2015, the accumulated download count of the App exceeded 120 000.

The e-Report Room is featured in both App and the police website for reporting of non-emergency cases or enquiries by members of the public. From 18 July 2012 to 31 March 2015, there were about 113 000 cases of requests for assistance through the police website and the App. The nature of case includes lost property, noise nuisance, telephone nuisance, unjustified issue of fixed penalty tickets, vehicle obstruction, complaint against the Police, and reports on cyber crimes, and so on. Amongst all the cases, about 9 000 were duplicated or missent messages.

Supply of and Demand for International School Places

3. MR JEFFREY LAM (in Chinese): President, all along, there have been members of the business community relaying to me that when overseas talents and investors decide whether to develop their careers and conduct investment activities in Hong Kong, they will consider whether they can arrange their underage children to be enrolled in the international schools in Hong Kong. As most of them will work or conduct investment activities in business districts after LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8957 they arrive in Hong Kong, the international school places on Hong Kong Island are the most sought after. In connection with the supply of and demand for international school places, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it knows the average fill-up rate of, the number of students enrolled in and the number of students waiting for admission to international schools as a whole in each of the past three school years, with a breakdown by region (i.e. Kowloon, the New Territories and Hong Kong Island);

(2) whether it knows the number and percentage of local students among the students of international schools in each of the past three school years;

(3) whether it knows the total number of international school places and the increase in such places in each of the past three school years, with a breakdown by region; and

(4) whether it has studied if there was a shortfall in the international school places on Hong Kong Island in the past three school years; if it has not studied, of the reasons for that; if it has studied, the details, and if the study results indicate such a shortfall, whether the Government has any solution in place; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President, the Government is committed to developing a vibrant international school sector through various measures mainly to meet the demand for international school places from overseas families living in Hong Kong and families coming to Hong Kong for work or investment. Our response to the four parts of the question raised by Mr Jeffrey LAM is as follows:

(1) A breakdown of the number of students enrolled and the percentage of students to school places in international schools by Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years is set out at Annex 1. According to the findings of a consultancy study completed in late 2012, the number 8958 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

of students on the waiting list for international school places(1) were 3 918 at primary level and 452 at secondary level in the 2011-2012 school year. The number of students on the waiting lists kept by international schools may be inflated as some schools do not take out the entries on their waiting list following the subsequent admission of students to other schools. Furthermore, some students may apply for more than one school and hence their applications are covered by the waiting list of different schools. In view of the above, under the study, the number of students on the waiting lists has been adjusted to take into account the possible "over-reporting". We are unable to provide a breakdown of the number of students on the waiting lists of international schools by area.

(2) The number and percentage of local students among the students in international schools from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years are set out at Annex 2.

(3) A breakdown of the number of international school places and the year-on-year change of the places by Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years are set out at Annex 3.

(4) According to the findings of a consultancy study completed in late 2012, it is projected that based on the position of the 2011-2012 school year, there will be a shortfall of around 4 200 primary places in the 2016-2017 school year. To address the projected shortfall, we have already completed the allocation of three vacant school premises for international school development in April 2013, which is expected to provide 1 150 additional primary places and 210 secondary places by the 2016-2017 school year. For the remaining projected shortfall in primary places, we are conducting a new round of school allocation exercise (SAE) to further increase the supply through allocating two vacant premises and three greenfield sites for international school development.

Further to the consultancy study completed in end 2012, we commissioned a new round of the study in October 2014 to update

(1) The consultancy study completed in end 2012 covered the provision of primary and secondary school places of schools operated by the English Schools Foundation (ESF), other private international schools and private independent schools. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8959

the latest position of international school places at primary and secondary levels in the territory and to better understand the nature of the demand in the next few years. The study will also collect views through surveys from international schools and the business sector as well as the international community in order to have a broader understanding of the concerns of different stakeholders. Such information, coupled with the past trends of demand for international school places and the forecast changes in economic growth, will be useful reference for projecting the demand from overseas families coming to Hong Kong for work or investment. The study is expected to complete by end 2015. Subject to the results of the study and availability of suitable sites or vacant school premises for international school development, we will consider whether and when to launch a new round of SAE for international school development.

Annex 1

Number of students enrolled and percentage of students to school places in international schools on/in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and New Territories from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years

2012-2013 2013-2014 2014-2015 Number % of Number % of Number % of Number Number Number of students of students of students of of of students to students to students to places places places enrolled places enrolled places enrolled places Hong 23 640 21 143 89.4% 24 119 21 611 89.6% 23 902 21 382 89.5% Kong Island Kowloon 8 470 7 388 87.2% 7 856 7 034 89.5% 9 086 8 193 90.2% New 6 572 5 843 88.9% 7 709 6 935 90.0% 7 969 7 060 88.6% Territories Total 38 682 34 374 88.9% 39 684 35 580 89.7% 40 957 36 635 89.4%

Notes:

(1) Figures include ESF schools and other private international schools but not the special school operated by ESF.

(2) Figures refer to position as at September of the respective years.

(3) Figures on places refer to the number of students that can be accommodated in operating classes (excluding vacant classrooms) in accordance with the planned class sizes as adopted by schools concerned.

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Annex 2

Number and percentage of local students among the students in international schools from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years

Total number of Total number of Total number of local students non-local students students (Percentage) (Percentage) 2012-2013 34 374 4 998 (14.5%) 29 376 (85.5%) 2013-2014 35 580 5 650 (15.9%) 29 930 (84.1%) 2014-2015 36 635 6 413 (17.5%) 30 222 (82.5%)

Notes:

(1) Figures include ESF schools and other private international schools but not the special school operated by ESF.

(2) Local students refer to those who are Hong Kong permanent residents (with the right of abode in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region) and do not have any foreign passport (except British National (Overseas) Passport).

(3) Figures refer to position as at September of the respective years.

Annex 3

Number of international school places and the year-on-year change of places on/in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and New Territories from the 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 school years

2012-2013 2013-2014 2014-2015 Number Year-on-year Number Year-on-year Number Year-on-year of change of of change of of change of places places places places places places Hong 23 640 -129 24 119 +479 23 902 -217 Kong Island Kowloon 8 470 +1 074 7 856 -614 9 086 +1 230 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8961

2012-2013 2013-2014 2014-2015 Number Year-on-year Number Year-on-year Number Year-on-year of change of of change of of change of places places places places places places New 6 572 +807 7 709 +1 137 7 969 +260 Territories Total 38 682 +1 752 39 684 +1 002 40 957 +1 273

Notes:

(1) Figures include ESF schools and other private international schools but not the special school operated by ESF.

(2) Figures refer to position as at September of the respective years.

(3) Figures on places refer to the number of students that can be accommodated in operating classes (excluding vacant classrooms) in accordance with the planned class sizes as adopted by schools concerned.

Impacts of Hongkong Post's Costs Management Measures on Its Staff Members

4. MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Chinese): President, according to the Report of the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning (Phase Two) recently released by the Treasury Branch under the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, in order to improve its financial performance, the Post Office Trading Fund (POTF) will continue to implement measures to generate revenue and manage costs. These measures include adjustment of the principal postage rates as well as automation and mechanization of postal operations. The Working Group also recommends that POTF should explore outsourcing opportunities. Some non-civil service contract staff employed by Hongkong Post (HKP) have relayed to me that the outsourcing of services will definitely affect their job prospects. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of staff members in various types of posts in HKP in each of the past five years; the total amount of expenditure on overtime pay incurred by HKP last year;

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(2) how the current staff establishment in the mail processing centres compares with that before the introduction of the new mechanized letter sorting system in 2009; of the current numbers of staff members in various types of posts in the mail processing centres;

(3) of the implementation details of and timetable for HKP's plan to automate and mechanize its postal operations, the amount of expenditure that can be saved and the impacts of such plan on HKP's staff establishment; and

(4) whether HKP has plans to outsource its postal services at present; if so, of the details (including the impacts of outsourcing the services on the job prospects of the existing staff members in various types of posts)?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the postal industry is by nature labour-intensive. The Hongkong Post (HKP) would ensure that there is adequate manpower to meet service demand and maintain service standard. In order to provide postal service that offers good value-for-money, the HKP also seeks to enhance its operational efficiency through automation and mechanization of its operations, work process re-engineering, and so on. As the mail volume fluctuates while the HKP has to meet specified performance pledges, there is a practical need for the HKP to engage a workforce comprising both civil service staff and non-civil service contract (NCSC) staff and arrange staff to work overtime in accordance with operational needs, in order to optimize the utilization of resources and avoid idle manpower.

Our replies to the questions are as follows:

(1) the numbers of civil servants and NCSC staff employed by the HKP in the past five years are set out below:

Number of staff (as at 31 March of each financial year) Year Civil servants NCSC staff Note Total number of staff 2010-2011 5 089 2 141 7 230 2011-2012 5 006 2 060 7 066 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8963

Number of staff (as at 31 March of each financial year) Year Civil servants NCSC staff Note Total number of staff 2012-2013 4 960 2 093 7 053 2013-2014 5 158 2 014 7 172 2014-2015 5 090 1 942 7 032

Note:

About half of the NCSC staff were part-time employees.

Overtime work of the HKP staff is compensated by time-off in lieu or overtime allowance. In 2013-2014, the total amount of overtime allowance incurred by the HKP was $193 million.

(2) Mechanized letter sorting systems were originally housed in the International Mail Centre and the General Post Office Sorting Office. As at August 2009, before the upgrading of the systems, there were a total of 788 civil service posts and 763 NCSC staff positions in the two mail processing centres. In 2014, the two mail processing centres were amalgamated to become the Central Mail Centre. At present, there are 583 civil service posts and 601 NCSC staff positions in the Central Mail Centre. The reduction of the number of posts/positions reflects changes in the mail processing volume and the enhancement of operational efficiency brought about by the implementation of measures such as automation and mechanization of operations, streamlining of workflow, re-engineering of work processes as well as merging of the two mail processing centres. The surplus manpower arising from the reduction of posts/positions was absorbed through natural wastage and internal redeployment.

(3) Major projects implemented by the HKP to automate and mechanize operations in recent years include:

(i) EC-Ship Online Portal ― Launched in September 2011, the portal facilitates senders to prepare the required posting documents, check posting records and pay postage online. It helps enhance the efficiency of counter operations and shorten the waiting time of customers;

8964 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(ii) eDelivery System ― Fully commissioned in November 2012, the system provides every delivery beat postman with a Personal Digital Assistant for recording delivery status, the delivery date and time of mail items in the course of delivery. The transmission of delivery data to the central system via the mobile wireless network streamlines the data collection process and enables timely updating of the delivery status of mail items on the mail tracking webpage and mobile app of the Department;

(iii) Installation of two Optical Character Recognition (OCR) and Video Coding Integrated Systems, one Stamp Cancelling Machine for processing large-size mail items and three Culler-Facer-Cancellers (CFC) ― These new equipment are installed in the Central Mail Centre and have been in full operation since November 2014. In addition to the general functions of segregating mail items and cancelling stamps, the CFCs can perform preliminary sorting by reading the addresses on mail items using the OCR technology, thus expediting the letter sorting process;

(iv) Integrated Postal Services System (IPSS) ― By streamlining counter operations and integrating counter transactions and back-end workflow, IPSS facilitates resources planning and deployment, thus enhancing operational efficiency. The HKP has been rolling out IPSS to all post offices and back-end offices since August 2014 with the target of completion by the end of 2015;

(v) Developing the capability of letter sorting machines to read Chinese addresses using OCR technology ― The new function will help reduce the manpower required for manual mail sorting, which we estimate can be fully implemented in September 2016; and

(vi) Mail Flow Management and Tracking System ― In addition to improving the mail processing procedures and enhancing control of the mail flow, the system will facilitate the planning, deployment and management of resources by LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8965

making available more information on the mail flow. System development is underway, and we estimate that the system can be fully commissioned by mid-2017.

The net full-year realizable recurrent savings of the above projects is $7.2 million, with net savings of 13 civil service posts and 26 NCSC staff positions. The net full-year notional savings in staff costs is $19.2 million.

(4) The HKP has all along adopted a prudent approach in the deployment of resources. In assessing the possibility of outsourcing, due consideration will be given to all relevant factors, including whether the work involved relates to the core postal business, the possible impact of outsourcing on service quality and staff, cost-effectiveness, and so on. The HKP does not have plans to further outsource its postal services at the present stage.

Retirement Situation in Civil Service

5. MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Chinese): President, in May 2013, the Secretary for the Civil Service briefed the Panel on Public Service of this Council on the retirement situation in the Civil Service, pointing out that the retirement of civil servants would peak in the five-year period from 2017-2018 to 2021-2022, and the annual average number of retirees would be about 7 000. To alleviate the situation, the authorities plan to raise the retirement age of new recruits joining the Civil Service from around the middle of this year. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of civil servants of various ranks retiring in each of the coming 10 years as projected by the authorities (with a tabulated breakdown by three salary bands: upper, middle and lower);

(2) as some members of the public are worried that the retirement of civil servants will give rise to a succession problem in the Civil Service, whether the authorities have concrete measures in place to ensure that public services and the overall development of society will not be affected; if they have such measures, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

8966 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(3) whether the authorities have considered giving serving civil servants the option of deferring their retirement when they approach their retirement age; if they have considered, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Chinese): President, based on the information available to the Civil Service Bureau and on the assumption that all civil servants will only retire upon reaching their applicable normal retirement age, it is estimated that the annual average number of retirees will be around 6 400 for the five-year period ending 2018-2019, and around 6 800 for the five-year period ending 2023-2024. The number will then decline to around 5 100 for the five-year period ending 2028-2029. The Civil Service Bureau does not have a breakdown of the relevant information by rank.

While the number of civil service retirees will be higher over the next decade, no significant succession or recruitment problem across-the-board in the Civil Service is anticipated. As far as succession planning is concerned, the Government has put in place a well-established mechanism to facilitate bureaux and departments in making early planning and taking timely actions where necessary. Under the mechanism, the Secretary for the Civil Service regularly meets with Permanent Secretaries and Heads of Department to discuss the succession situation in individual departments and grades, with a view to ensuring early identification of any succession problems, advance planning and timely implementation of suitable measures. In tandem with the succession planning efforts, the Government also provides training and development opportunities for civil servants at all levels so as to enrich their exposure, enable them to acquire the necessary knowledge and skills for the discharge of their duties, and prepare them for higher responsibilities.

As announced in the 2015 Policy Address, the Government will adopt flexible retirement and employment initiatives for extending the service of civil servants. The Government has subsequently announced that new recruits appointed to the Civil Service on or after 1 June 2015 will be subject to the new retirement age, viz 65 for civilian grades and 60 for disciplined services grades (regardless of rank). In addition, the Government will adopt suitable measures to facilitate departments to flexibly extend the service of serving civil servants. In formulating the initiatives for extending the service of civil servants, the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8967

Government has fully taken into account the feedback received during the consultation period and the relevant policy considerations. For new recruits who will retire several decades later, there is a clear case to raise their retirement age given the latest population forecasts. The considerations for serving officers are, however, more complicated, especially where there will be no anticipated significant succession or recruitment problem across-the-board over the coming decade or so. The different management problems that may come with automatic extension of the service of serving officers without corresponding expansion of establishment and reference to performance and skill set, including manpower mismatch, promotion blockage and impact on injection of new blood to the Civil Service, should be avoided. It is advisable to devise a mechanism through which management could flexibly retain serving civil servants beyond retirement age in the light of operational needs, succession planning and recruitment situation, which vary from grade to grade and from time to time. This will help avoid succession problem, while maintaining operational and management efficiency. To this end, we will suitably adjust the mechanism for further employment of civil servants beyond retirement age, including institutionalizing a selection process such that the openings for further employment will be determined in a reasonable and objective manner and that applications for further employment will be assessed by a fair and objective process. We are hammering out the implementation details and will maintain close dialogue with the staff sides and the grade/departmental management in this regard.

Implementation and Promotion of Basic Law

6. DR LAM TAI-FAI (in Chinese): President, some members of the community have pointed out that since the reunification of Hong Kong, the Central People's Government (CPG) has all along adhered to the principles of "one country, two systems", "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong", etc. and acted in accordance with the Basic Law. However, in recent years, some radicals in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) have been advocating the idea of Hong Kong independence. These radicals have also misunderstood and blatantly disregarded the Basic Law and the principle of "one country, two systems", as well as attempted secession of the country and endangered national security. Such members of the community have suggested that as this year marks the 25th anniversary of the promulgation of the Basic 8968 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Law, the SAR Government should step up its efforts to promote the Basic Law in order to enhance the understanding of the Basic Law among the general public, particularly the youth. In connection with the implementation and promotion of the Basic Law, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has assessed if CPG is satisfied with the implementation of the Basic Law in SAR; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(2) given that Article 23 of the Basic Law stipulates that SAR shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, etc., how the SAR Government will enact laws to implement this provision, and of the legislative timetable; if no timetable is available, of the reasons for that;

(3) whether it has assessed if any foreign forces have attempted to sabotage the implementation of the Basic Law since the reunification; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(4) whether it has assessed and reviewed, since the implementation of the Basic Law, the effectiveness of the efforts made by the SAR Government in promoting the Basic Law; if it has, of the indicators for determining the effectiveness, as well as the successes and the failures of such efforts; whether any principal official under the accountability system (accountability officials) should be held responsible for the failures; if not, of the reasons for that;

(5) how the authorities will, in the next two years, enhance the effectiveness of the work to promote the Basic Law and what methods they will use to step up the promotional efforts; of the government departments, organizations or officials dedicated to undertaking such tasks;

(6) whether it has assessed the effectiveness of the work of the Basic Law Promotion Steering Committee (BLPSC) in the past three years; of the conditions for appointment as BLPSC members; whether the authorities have provided relevant training for and conducted assessments of BLPSC members; whether it has studied if BLPSC needs to be restructured;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8969

(7) of the details of the estimates of expenditure and the expenditure items for the promotion of the Basic Law and the number of copies of the Basic Law which will be printed and distributed to the public in each of the next five years;

(8) according to the Government's target, how many people in Hong Kong should be familiarized with the content of the Basic Law; of the anticipated time for achieving such target;

(9) whether it has assessed the impact of shelving the Curriculum Guide of the Moral and National Education subject in October 2012 on the promotion of the Basic Law; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(10) whether it has assessed which parts or provisions of the Basic Law that members of the public have relatively diverse understanding which has caused difficulties in the promotion of the Basic Law; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(11) of the platforms which the authorities provided in the past, is providing at present and will provide in the future for university, secondary and primary students at various levels to learn the Basic Law so as to achieve popularization of the Basic Law education;

(12) whether it will review the lesson time and the curriculum guides for subjects such as General Studies for primary education, Life and Society for junior secondary education, Liberal Studies for senior secondary education, etc. as well as enhance the Basic Law related content of such subjects; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(13) whether it will consider including the Basic Law in the scope of examination for the subject Liberal Studies of the Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(14) whether it has studied how primary and secondary school teachers at various levels can learn the Basic Law effectively and properly; if it has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

8970 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(15) given that a member of Hong Kong deputies to the National People's Congress have recently proposed that attendance of courses on national studies courses held on the Mainland should be made an entry requirement for prospective teachers, whether the authorities will adopt such a proposal; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(16) how the Government currently promotes the Basic Law among overseas Hong Kong people and new arrivals from the Mainland and encourage them to learn the Basic Law; whether there is any dedicated government department responsible for such work; whether the authorities organized talks or activities for such persons in the past three years for promoting the Basic Law; if they did, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(17) how the Government promotes the Basic Law among the elderly and retirees at present;

(18) given that members from the pan-democratic camp are often alleged by government officials to have misunderstood certain provisions of the Basic Law, how the Government will facilitate such persons to gain a proper understanding of the relevant provisions;

(19) whether it will establish a mechanism to assess or evaluate the accountability officials' understanding of the Basic Law and provide systematic training in this respect; and

(20) whether it will establish a mechanism to provide Basic Law related training for District Council members, Legislative Council Members and Executive Council Members; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Education Bureau and the Security Bureau, our consolidated reply to the questions raised by Dr LAM is as follows:

The Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of (the Basic Law) is the constitutional document for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), enshrining in legal form LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8971 the basic policies of "one country, two systems", "Hong Kong people administering Hong Kong" and a high degree of autonomy and prescribing the systems practised in the HKSAR.

The HKSAR Government established the Basic Law Promotion Steering Committee (BLPSC) in January 1998. Chaired by the Chief Secretary for Administration and comprised both official and non-official members, the BLPSC provides the steer on the overall programme and strategy for promoting the Basic Law, and co-ordinates the efforts of government departments and various sectors in the community in taking forward Basic Law promotion activities. Similar to other advisory bodies, the HKSAR Government appoints candidates as non-official members to the BLPSC on the basis of the merit of the individuals concerned, taking into account their ability, expertise, experience, integrity and commitment to public service.

Five working groups (WGs) have been set up under the BLPSC, namely WG on Local Community; WG on Teachers and Students; WG on Civil Servants; WG on Industrial, Commercial and Professional Sectors; and WG on Overseas Community. These WGs are assisted by, respectively, the Home Affairs Bureau, the Education Bureau, the Civil Service Bureau, the Trade and Industry Department (TID) and the Information Services Department (ISD) to organize activities to promote the Basic Law to the respective sectors. Over the past three years, the BLPSC and its WGs have organized more than 70 promotion activities. The HKSAR Government will evaluate the effectiveness of various promotion activities through different means, such as activity reports, number of visits to the Internet websites, number of downloads of the smart-phone applications, participation rates at events, and public feedback, and so on. Moreover, the HKSAR Government also conducts surveys on a regular basis to evaluate public understanding of the Basic Law as well as the effectiveness of various publicity and promotion activities.

The year 2015 marks the 25th anniversary of the promulgation of the Basic Law. Apart from continuing to foster public understanding of the main content of the Basic Law by making use of familiar topics from daily lives, the HKSAR Government will also organize more in-depth and diverse large-scale activities, including seminars and thematic exhibitions, so that the public can have an in-depth understanding of "one country, two systems" and the Basic Law. Individual bureaux/departments will also organize activities catered for their target groups. For example, the Education Bureau will produce Basic Law 8972 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 visual learning packages for upper primary and junior secondary students and organize territory-wide inter-school quiz competitions; the Civil Service Bureau will organize thematic talks on the Basic Law; the TID will organize thematic seminars and souvenir design competition on the Basic Law; and the ISD will produce Basic Law promotion video. The Community Participation Scheme 2015-2016 and the Co-operation Scheme with District Councils 2015-2016 organized by the Committee on the Promotion of Civic Education under the Home Affairs Bureau have also encouraged community organizations to stage activities at the district level for the 25th anniversary of the promulgation of the Basic Law. The Education Bureau also subsidizes educational groups and tertiary institutions to carry out activities for the promotion of the Basic Law through the Quality Education Fund and the Basic Law Promotion Funding Scheme for Tertiary Institutions.

As for teaching the Basic Law in schools and providing training for teachers, the Education Bureau has always attached great importance to the promotion of the Basic Law and actively takes forward Basic Law education. Related learning elements of the Basic Law have long been incorporated into the curricula of primary and secondary schools. These include, for example, General Studies at the primary level, Life and Society at the junior secondary level and Liberal Studies at the senior secondary level. The "Revised Moral and Civic Education Curriculum Framework" promulgated in 2008 has strengthened the related content on the Basic Law. Furthermore, schools could promote Basic Law education with reference to their own contexts and needs for curriculum development, through the relevant curricula and learning activities. The importance of Basic Law education in the school curriculum has not been varied though the "Moral and National Education Curriculum Guide" was shelved in 2012.

The Education Bureau continues to produce teaching and learning resources and question banks as well as organize learning activities to promote Basic Law education. Based on the recommendations in the 2010-2011 Policy Address, learning packages have been produced since November 2010 to foster students' understanding of the Basic Law. The packages have been distributed to schools in phases from January 2012 to January 2013. At the same time, online resources have been provided to schools in support of Basic Law learning.

For primary schools, the "Community and Citizenship" strand of the General Studies curriculum includes key learning points/core learning elements on the Basic Law. The Education Bureau would continuously evaluate and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8973 update the contents of the "General Studies for Primary Schools Curriculum Guide" to keep track with the societal development. The to-be devised "General Studies for Primary Schools Curriculum Guide 2016" will further enhance Basic Law education by adding in its drafting history and development and reinforcing the learning of Articles in Chapters I, II and IV of the Basic Law. Good exemplars are collected from schools for sharing.

Meanwhile, the Education Bureau has also developed in 2012 "Let's Learn the Basic Law ― Basic Law Learning Package (Senior Primary) (bilingual version)" and the Basic Law Assessment Bank to provide support to primary school teachers on relevant teaching and assessment and, to increase students' knowledge on the background, Articles and important concepts of the Basic Law. The Learning Package (Bilingual version in DVD format) was distributed to all primary schools, including the schools operated by the English Schools Foundation. In addition, the Education Bureau also established an online assessment bank which was uploaded onto the learning and teaching resources websites of the Education Bureau for schools' reference and use. Teachers can encourage students to do online self-assessment to consolidate the learning of Basic Law.

As for secondary schools, the Education Bureau will distribute the teacher version of the "Understanding the Law, Access to Justice ― Basic Law Learning Package (Junior Secondary)" (Reprinted with minor amendments) to all secondary schools. To tie in with the development of e-learning, the Education Bureau will complete the e-book version of the package for all junior secondary students by June 2015.

To facilitate teachers in their assessment of students' understanding of the Basic Law, two assessment banks have been provided for secondary and primary school teachers respectively by June 2012. Students can assess their own understanding of the Basic Law online through responding to questions or engaging in online games from December 2012. The Education Bureau will continue to design various types of examination questions for schools' reference and use.

The Education Bureau has always taken heed of views and suggestions through various channels such as by conducting relevant discussions with the Curriculum Development Council and maintaining close communication with sponsoring bodies and schools, and enriched the contents about the Basic Law in 8974 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 secondary and primary school curricula according to practical needs. The "Basic Education Curriculum Guide ― To Sustain, Deepen and Focus on Learning to Learn (Primary 1-6) (2014)" which has been uploaded to the Education Bureau's website, gives advice to schools on utilizing existing learning and teaching resources to enhance Basic Law education. To further enrich the elements of Basic Law education, the Education Bureau will also consider enhancing education on the Basic Law in the relevant curriculum guides, including recommending curriculum time, learning and teaching strategies, resources for assessment and good practices.

The Basic Law is related to the theme of "Rule of law and socio-political participation" in Module 2 "Hong Kong Today" of the curriculum of senior secondary Liberal Studies. The Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education Examination of Liberal Studies is set according to the "Liberal Studies Curriculum and Assessment Guide (Secondary 4-6)". Questions are set in accordance with the curriculum aims, curriculum contents, design of issues, explanatory notes and assessment objectives, so as to assess candidates' comprehension of the issues, application of relevant knowledge and concepts as well as use of different thinking skills and positive values.

The Education Bureau continues to organize professional development programmes on the Basic Law for secondary and primary school teachers in order to enhance teachers' understanding of the concepts and essence of the Basic Law. These courses cover contents such as curriculum planning, learning and teaching, use of learning and teaching resources, and knowledge enrichment, and aim to facilitate the implementation of Basic Law education in schools and enhance curriculum leadership and teaching effectiveness.

Teacher training institutions (TEIs) will consider the needs of the community, students and the teaching profession in designing initial teacher education programmes. The Education Bureau will have professional exchanges with TEIs from time to time on matters relating to professional development and training of teachers so that the planning of programmes by TEIs could meet the policy development needs.

It is necessary for Hong Kong students to understand their country. Currently, through participating in various kinds of activities and exchanges, students have many opportunities to learn more about their country and its LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8975 development. The Education Bureau always respects academic freedom since that TEIs themselves will consider the needs of the community, students and the teaching profession in designing initial teacher education programmes.

In recent years, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has spent/set aside about $16 million annually for organizing various promotion activities under the following strategies to enhance public awareness and understanding of the Basic Law:

(i) using electronic media targeted at the general public, such as Announcements in the Public Interest on television and radio, radio quiz programmes, Internet and smart-phone applications;

(ii) enhancing public awareness and understanding of the Basic Law through promotion activities at the district level, such as roving exhibitions and mobile resource centre; and

(iii) strengthening co-operation with community organizations in staging various promotion activities, such as seminars, talks and debate competitions, in order to reach a wider audience through the extensive community networks.

To facilitate the public in reading the Basic Law articles and relevant documents, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has uploaded the full text of the Basic Law to the dedicated Basic Law website and smart-phone application. To cater for different needs of the public, the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau has also prepared printed copies of the Basic Law which are available at the public enquiry service centres of the District Offices, the Civic Education Resource Centre, the Basic Law Library, and so on. The Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau will also distribute printed copies of the Basic Law during the Basic Law promotion activities such as roving exhibitions, mobile resource centre, seminars, and so on.

As regards the enactment of Article 23 of the Basic Law (BL23), the HKSAR is constitutionally obliged under BL23 to enact laws for national security. The HKSAR Government administers in accordance with the Basic Law. However, we do not have any plan to enact laws in respect of BL23 for the time being.

8976 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Funding Proposal for Project to Expand Hong Kong International Airport into a Three-runway System

7. MRS REGINA IP (in Chinese): President, on 17 March this year, the Chief Executive in Council affirmed the need to expand the Hong Kong International Airport into a three-runway system, the construction cost of which is projected to be around $141.5 billion in money-of-the-day prices. Based on a "joint contribution and user-pay" principle, the Airport Authority Hong Kong (AAHK) has put forward its funding proposal for the project. It has been reported that AAHK will seek to fund the project through three channels: (i) about $53 billion (38%) from bank loans and bonds issued, (ii) about $47 billion (33%) from the cessation of payment to the Government for 10 years of dividends in relation to airport's operational surplus, and (iii) about $42 billion (29%) from the fees and charges to be imposed on airport users (including introducing an Airport Construction Fee (ACF) of $180 per departing passenger). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) given that quite a number of comments have pointed out that the ACF of $180 to be charged on each departing passenger is too high, and that AAHK is currently awarded the highest AAA credit rating by Standard & Poor's, an international rating agency, whether the authorities will discuss with AAHK the raising of the proportions of funds to be financed through the first two channels in the above funding proposal, with a view to lowering the rate of or even dispensing with the introduction of ACF, so as to avoid undermining the competitiveness of the local aviation industry; if they will, of the details; and

(2) given that the Government lowered the rate of air passenger departure tax from $100 to $50 in the 1998-1999 financial year in order to assist in the recovery of the tourism industry, whether the authorities will make reference to this practice by lowering the rate or even suspending the imposition of the tax, so as to alleviate the burden posed by ACF on passengers; if they will, of the details?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, air traffic at Hong Kong International Airport (HKIA) has been growing significantly over the past few years. According to the latest projection, the existing two-runway system would likely reach its maximum practical capacity of 420 000 air traffic movements per annum in 2016 or 2017, a few years ahead of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8977 the original forecast in the HKIA Master Plan 2030 released by the Airport Authority Hong Kong (AAHK) in 2011. Besides, Hong Kong is facing intensifying competition from airports in neighbouring cities such as Singapore, Seoul, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and so on. All the airports in these cities have already committed/planned or are in the course of implementing major airport expansion plans. Without major expansion plans like the three-runway system (3RS) at the HKIA, Hong Kong will eventually lose out on the development of our aviation business, as well as affiliated sectors particularly in logistics, tourism, trade and retail, to our major competitors. There is an urgent need for the implementation of the 3RS project to meet Hong Kong's long-term air traffic demand and to maintain our overall competitiveness.

As the proponent of the 3RS project, the AAHK has drawn up the financial arrangement of the project and submitted a proposal to the Government. As set out in its proposal, the AAHK will finance the 3RS project by making use of internal sources of funds, external borrowings and charging airport users (including the adjustment of airport charges payable by airlines and the collection of Airport Construction Fee (ACF) from departing local and foreign air passengers). This proposal, which is a three-pronged approach under the principle of joint contribution, is more equitable than asking tax payers at large to pay for the construction costs through direct government funding out of the general revenue. The AAHK will ensure the cost-effectiveness of the 3RS project and endeavour to exercise good project management and cost control.

Our reply to the question from Mrs Regina IP is as follows:

(1) In response to the views of the Government and the general public, the AAHK is now reviewing its proposed financial arrangement with a view to maximizing borrowings from the market and lowering the charging level of the proposed ACF so as to lessen the burden of air passengers. The AAHK will announce its findings upon completion of the review.

(2) Air Passenger Departure Tax (APDT) is one of the sources of Government's revenue. Similar to other government taxation, the APDT received will be transferred to the Government's general revenue for paying various government expenditures. As the construction of the 3RS project will be self-financed by the AAHK, the Government has no plan to lower or suspend the imposition of APDT for the purpose of the 3RS project.

8978 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Construction of a Shopping Mall in Lok Ma Chau

8. DR KWOK KA-KI (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that a developer plans to lease a car parking site at the junction of San Sham Road and San Tin Tsuen Road in Lok Ma Chau to a foundation for the construction of a boundary shopping mall (shopping mall) in the hope that it will open in time before the "National Day Golden Week" this year. The authorities have indicated that they have coordinated relevant government departments to provide advice on the information required to be submitted, the statutory procedures concerned, etc. to the project proponent, and will closely keep in view the progress of the project. It has been reported that a number of logistics companies are currently renting areas on the car park for use as logistics support bases, and the proprietor of one of the companies has disclosed that the car park operator is considering relocating them to a nearby site where a fish pond is situated for their continued operation. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has fully consulted the local residents on the shopping mall project; if it has, of the means of the consultation and the number of consultation sessions conducted, as well as the feedback of the residents; if not, how the authorities ensure that the shopping mall project is in line with the wishes of the residents;

(2) whether it knows if the aforesaid foundation and developer have signed any agreement on the shopping mall project; if they have, of the details, including the effective date;

(3) whether the development of the shopping mall on the aforesaid site complies with the planned land use; if it does not, whether it knows the details and timetable of the application for changing the planned land use of the site to be made by the foundation;

(4) whether it knows the estimated cost of, the tendering arrangement for and the expected completion date of the project to construct the shopping mall, as well as the opening date of the shopping mall;

(5) whether it knows the operation mode of the shopping mall and if the foundation will select the operator or tenants of the shopping mall by open tender; if the foundation will, of the relevant tendering procedures and criteria as well as the duration of the operation; if not, the justifications for that;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8979

(6) of the details of the ancillary transport facilities for the shopping mall; whether the authorities have conducted a detailed assessment on the impacts of the transport demand arising from the shopping mall on the nearby transport network and public transport services; if they have, of the details; whether the authorities will increase the relevant transport infrastructural facilities and public transport services; if they will, of the details; if not, how the authorities ensure that the existing transport infrastructural facilities in the area are sufficient to meet the transport demand arising from the shopping mall;

(7) whether the operation of logistics business on the aforesaid site where the fish pond is situated complies with its planned land use; if it does not, whether the authorities know the relocation arrangement for the existing tenants to be made by the car park operator and whether it will provide relocation subsidies to them in the event that the Town Planning Board does not approve the relevant application for changing the planned land use; and

(8) whether it has assessed the respective impacts that the shopping mall project and the conversion of the nearby fish pond to a logistics site will have on the surrounding environment and ecology; if it has not, whether the authorities will require the shopping mall project proponent to conduct an environmental impact assessment study in this respect; if they will, of the details?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the proposed temporary boundary shopping facility at Lok Ma Chau is a private development project. It is the responsibility of the project proponent to arrange for the relevant land use, construction works, identification of tenants, transport services and other operation matters for the project. The project proponent also needs to make reasonable and appropriate arrangements for the incumbent tenants of the project site.

Application for the above project must follow the established procedures as required under the planning, lands and other relevant legislation and prescribed by the Government. From the planning perspective, section 16 of the Town Planning Ordinance (Cap. 131) stipulates that a project proponent must undertake technical assessments on the potential impact of his development project in 8980 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 different respects, such as transport, drainage, sewerage and environment, and apply for planning permission from the Town Planning Board (the TPB). In this connection, the Government has established an inter-departmental working group. The Tourism Commission of the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau has been co-ordinating relevant bureaux/departments in providing advice to the proponent on the information required for its applications and the relevant statutory procedures in respect of land administration, planning and works.

At its meeting on 17 February 2015, the Yuen Long District Council passed a motion urging the Government to expedite the development of the boundary shopping facility to help divert visitors to the boundary areas. Upon receipt of a planning application for the proposed temporary boundary shopping facility at Lok Ma Chau, the TPB will make public the relevant application documents. Within the first three weeks of the publication, any person may make comments to the TPB in respect of the application. The TPB will consider the application in a holistic manner.

Quota and Points System for PRH

9. MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Chinese): President, the Quota and Points System (QPS) was introduced by the Hong Kong Housing Authority (HA) in September 2005 to rationalize and re-prioritize the allocation of public rental housing (PRH) to non-elderly one-person applicants. HA has implemented the refined QPS for PRH (new QPS) since 1 February this year to increase the annual PRH quota for applicants under QPS, refine the points system and check the eligibility of applicants. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of PRH units allocated to non-elderly one-person applicants by HA in each of the past five years, and the number of PRH units reserved for such applicants in each of the next five years;

(2) of the number of non-elderly one-person applicants who passed the detailed eligibility vetting (the eligibility vetting) last year; the number of such persons who have not yet been allocated PRH units; whether the new QPS has impacted on the waiting time of these applicants, resulting in their having to wait longer for PRH allocation or eligibility vetting;

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(3) of the number of non-elderly one-person applicants who have waited for PRH units for 10 years or more as at 31 March this year;

(4) whether HA has assessed, upon the implementation of the new QPS, how much longer, on average, those non-elderly one-person applicants who have waited for PRH units for 10 years or more have to wait before they are allocated PRH units; and

(5) whether HA will conduct a comprehensive review of the new QPS, including a study on the impacts of the new QPS on the waiting time of non-elderly one-person applicants who have waited for PRH units for 10 years or more, in particular if the new QPS is unfair to those applicants who have passed the eligibility vetting, and whether HA has neglected such applicants' reasonable expectations for timely PRH allocation; whether HA will exercise discretion in handling the applications from such persons, so that they can be expeditiously allocated PRH units; if HA will not, of the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, it is the policy of the Government and the Hong Kong Housing Authority (HA) to accord priority to general applicants (that is, family and elderly one-person applicants) over non-elderly one-person applicants in the allocation of public rental housing (PRH) flats. Towards this end, HA introduced the Quota and Points System (QPS) for non-elderly one-person applicants in September 2005. Unlike general applicants, under QPS:

(i) the allocation of flats is subject to an annual quota;

(ii) the priority of applicants is determined by a points system; and

(iii) the target of providing the first flat offer at around three years on average is not applicable to QPS applicants.

In 2012, the Government established the Long Term Housing Strategy (LTHS) Steering Committee. On QPS, the LTHS Steering Committee was concerned that older applicants might have relatively limited upward mobility and therefore should be given higher priority. During the public consultation on the LTHS, a considerable number of respondents agreed that more points should be 8982 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 given to non-elderly one-person applicants who are above the age of 45. In its report submitted to the Government, the LTHS Steering Committee called on HA to carefully review PRH-related policies, including QPS, to ensure the proper use of valuable PRH resources.

At the same time, in his Report No. 61 on the allocation and utilization of PRH flats, the Director of Audit observed that there was a built-in incentive for applicants to apply for PRH early under QPS (that is, to apply at the minimum eligible age of 18 in order to accumulate more waiting time points), and recommended HA to conduct a comprehensive review of QPS. Subsequently, the Legislative Council Public Accounts Committee (PAC) also considered that HA should review the points system of QPS with a view to introducing improvement measures. The Subcommittee on LTHS under the Legislative Council Panel on Housing also mentioned Members' different views on this subject in its report published in July 2014.

Taking into account views from all parties, HA's Subsidised Housing Committee (SHC) decided to refine QPS on 14 October 2014. Refinements include awarding a one-off bonus of 60 points to applicants when they have reached the age of 45 to accord them with a higher priority over other younger applicants; and increasing the scale of age points from three to nine points per year of age increase at the time of application to reduce the incentive for early registration. The refined points system was implemented with effect from 1 February 2015.

My reply to the five parts of the question raised by Mr Frederick FUNG is as follows:

(1) In addition to PRH flat allocation through QPS, non-elderly one-person applicants can also apply under the Express Flat Allocation Scheme (EFAS) for earlier allocation of PRH flats. The allocation figures in the past five years are shown in the table below:

Number of Number of QPS applicants applicants Year Total allocated flats allocated flats through QPS through EFAS 2009-2010 1 948 554 2 502 2010-2011 1 746 660 2 406 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8983

Number of Number of QPS applicants applicants Year Total allocated flats allocated flats through QPS through EFAS 2011-2012 1 847 445 2 292 2012-2013 1 690 270 1 960 2013-2014 1 920 157 2 077

When HA's SHC decided to refine the points system of QPS on 14 October 2014, it also decided to increase the annual allocation quota under QPS from 8% to 10% of the total number of flats to be allocated to general and QPS applicants, subject to a cap which was also increased from 2 000 to 2 200 units, starting from HA's PRH Allocation Plan for 2015-2016.

(2) Under QPS, PRH allocation is conducted continuously based on the situation of resources, points of applicants and quota. As the number of applicants who have passed the detailed eligibility vetting and are awaiting PRH flat allocation keeps changing, this figure is not particularly meaningful.

To facilitate the implementation of the refined system, HA's SHC had decided to adopt a one-off arrangement for those QPS applicants who have passed the detailed eligibility vetting on or before the date of SHC's decision to refine QPS (that is, 14 October 2014) and are undergoing the allocation process. Their priority for PRH allocation would be based on their points awarded under either the refined system or the old system, whichever enables earlier allocation.

(3) As at end December 2014, the number of QPS applicants who have waited for PRH units for 10 years or more was 2 069, including applicants who had been offered a flat but did not accept the offers; as well as applicants who have not yet been offered any flat. For applicants who were offered flats but did not accept the offer, waiting time refers to the time taken between registration for PRH and first flat offer, excluding any frozen period during the application period (for example, when the applicant has not yet fulfilled the residence requirement; the applicant has requested to put 8984 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

his/her application on hold pending arrival of family members for family reunion; the applicant is imprisoned, and so on). For applicants who have not been made any offer, their waiting time is counted from the registration date to end December 2014, excluding frozen period. We do not yet have the latest figures up to end March 2015.

(4) Under QPS, the relative priority of PRH flat allocation to applicants is determined by the points of applicants obtained under the points system. The points of applicants are determined by a number of factors, including the age of the applicants, whether the applicants are living in PRH, and the waiting time of applicants. Due to different circumstances of individual applicants such as waiting time, whether they are living in PRH and their district choice of PRH allocation, plus the fact that there could be new applicants from time to time whose circumstances are also different, we cannot predict the time of flat allocation for individual applicants. Besides, the progress of PRH allocation is also affected by factors such as the number of flats reserved for allocation, the supply of newly built and refurbished PRH flats in different districts, and whether applicants accept flat offers. Therefore, we are unable to estimate the time of flat allocation for applicants who have waited for 10 years or more under QPS.

Under the refined QPS, generally speaking, older applicants will be allocated flats earlier. However, the actual priority of individual applicants is determined by their points under the refined system, and is ultimately subject to the supply of PRH and circumstances of other applicants.

Same as other PRH applicants, QPS applicants can apply under EFAS for earlier allocation of PRH flats. Applicants with pressing housing needs due to social or health reasons can apply for Compassionate Rehousing upon recommendation of the Social Welfare Department.

(5) As mentioned above, to facilitate the implementation of the refined system, HA's SHC had decided to adopt a one-off arrangement for those applicants who have passed the detailed eligibility vetting on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8985

or before the date of SHC's decision to refine QPS (that is, 14 October 2014) and are undergoing the allocation process. Their priority for PRH allocation would be based on their points awarded under either the refined system or the old system, whichever enables earlier allocation.

The proposal to refine QPS has been thoroughly discussed at different fora. Before HA's SHC decided to refine QPS, it has carefully considered the recommendations of the LTHS Steering Committee, views collected during the public consultation on LTHS, views of the Director of Audit, as well as that of Legislative Council's PAC. After the refinements to QPS were approved, HA immediately issued a press release on 14 October 2014 to announce the relevant details. The HA also issued letters to inform individual QPS applicants of the refinements and the latest calculation of their points in early February 2015.

The HA will continue to closely monitor the implementation of QPS.

Land Use and Survey as well as Publication of Land Information

10. MR WU CHI-WAI (in Chinese): President, regarding land use and survey as well as the publication of land information in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) as at 31 March this year, of (i) the total area of the lands held under Block Government Leases and, among them, (ii) the total area of the lands used for residential purposes; (iii) the total area of the lands used for agricultural purposes; and (iv) the total area of the lands not covered by any statutory plans, broken down by District Council (DC) district, and set out such information according to the table below;

among those in (i) DC district (i) (ii) (iii) (iv)

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(2) in respect of the lands held under Block Government Leases but not covered by any statutory plan, whether the construction of buildings on such lands is currently subject to any planning restrictions (e.g. building height restrictions); whether the lessees may apply to the Government for redeveloping the buildings on such lands; if so, of the respective numbers of the relevant applications received and approved by the Government in each of the past three years;

(3) of the date and scope of the latest survey conducted by the Government on the lands held under Block Government Leases; whether it has plans to carry out a large-scale survey on such lands in the coming two years;

(4) given that according to the information of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department (AFCD), there were about 711 hectares of active farmland and about 3 781 hectares of fallow farmland as at December 2014, how AFCD defines "active farmland" and "fallow farmland" and how it came up with such figures;

(5) of the respective total areas of active farmland and fallow farmland granted by the Government as at 31 March this year; and

(6) given that in reply to a question raised by a Member of this Council in November 2013, the Government said that the Lands Department was planning to set up an online platform to provide online version of survey and mapping information gradually, facilitating the public to purchase various kinds of digitally imaged survey and mapping products (e.g. the Demarcation District Sheet, Lot Index Plan and Land Record Sheet), of the latest progress of such work and when the relevant services will be available to the public?

SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, Block Government Leases (BGLs, formerly known as Block Crown Leases) are land lease documents granted by the Government in the early days. When the New Territories was leased to the former colonial Government in 1898, in order to understand the situation of land ownership in the New Territories, the Government commissioned surveying staff to conduct a comprehensive land survey of private land with survey plans covering all fields and houses drawn in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8987 the New Territories. Such work lasted for three years from 1899. A Land Court was also set up by the Government back then to vet land ownership. Owners of private land in the New Territories accepted by the Land Court would have their names, a description of the then prevailing use of their land, and the Government rent payable registered in the schedule of the BGLs, and would be deemed as having granted land from the Government. At present, BGLs cover more than 210 000 parent lots, yet this has not taken into account the number of sub-lots divided from these parent lots.

Based on information provided by the Lands Department (LandsD), the Planning Department, the Buildings Department (BD) and the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department (AFCD), I reply to the various parts of the question as follows:

(1) The area of land covered by BGLs amount to about 8 600 hectares, with a vast majority situated in the New Territories. Information on the boundaries, area and then prevailing uses of the land covered by BGLs is registered in the BGLs as well as survey plans enclosed with these leases. Owing to the relatively primitive survey method employed by the surveying staff at that time, and that the survey plans drawn by them are with relatively small scale and of varying qualities, the Government and land surveyors still need to conduct surveys for individual lots for more accurate information when the need arises. The land use descriptions recorded in the relevant BGLs for each lot are just simple, snap shot descriptions of the myriad of land uses as observed on site in the old days. The uses as recorded are illustrative rather than binding lease restrictions on land uses, as BGLs themselves as a kind of lease do not include land use restrictions (the only restriction is the requirement to seek the LandsD's approval for erection of structures). As such, it may not be meaningful to stocktake and summarize the snap shot descriptions of land uses, particularly when BGLs cover more than 210 000 parent lots and the LandsD has to set aside substantial manpower resources to examine all BGLs in order to provide the information. We are therefore unable to provide the relevant breakdown.

(2) No statutory planning restriction under the Town Planning Ordinance (Cap. 131) is applicable to land that is not covered by any statutory plan. If such land is covered by adopted departmental 8988 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

plans (such as outline development plans), then the land use and planning restrictions shown on such plans would be made reference to when relevant departments formulate development plans or land leases. Moreover, buildings erected on any land will still be subject to the relevant ordinances, land lease conditions and other applicable government requirements.

In general, the owner of private land held under BGL has to, in accordance with the conditions of the concerned BGL, apply to LandsD if he wishes to erect structures on the lot (including applications for rebuilding houses). Moreover, temporary structures or squatters covered by relevant licences or the 1982 Squatter Structure Survey may be found on some of the lots governed by BGLs. If the licensees of temporary structures or occupiers of squatters would like to alter the construction of their structures, they will have to apply to the LandsD.

For the construction or redevelopment of a New Territories Exempted House (NTEH) on land governed by a BGL, the LandsD will normally make reference to the Buildings Ordinance (Application to the New Territories) Ordinance (Cap. 121) which stipulates that an NTEH cannot exceed 65.03 sq m (700 sq ft) in roofed-over area, three storeys and 8.23 m (27 ft) in height. On the other hand, if the alteration of a building on land governed by a BGL involves building works not exempted under the Buildings Ordinance (Application to the New Territories) Ordinance (Cap. 121), such works have to comply with the requirements under the Buildings Ordinance (Cap. 123), that is approval of plans and consent to commence works must be obtained from BD before such works begin.

The LandsD and the BD do not have readily available statistics on the number of applications or approved cases of construction or redevelopment of buildings on BGL lots not covered by statutory plans.

(3) The LandsD has not conducted a new survey of the boundaries of all lots covered by BGLs. The LandsD conducts surveys of land boundaries as and when this is required to support the processing of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8989

lease modifications and land exchanges and to resolve individual land boundary issues which may arise in the course of government projects, such as land resumption for infrastructure and public housing developments. The LandsD currently has no plan to carry out a new survey of the boundaries of all lots covered by BGLs due to other priorities.

(4) The AFCD conducts continuous rolling surveys on how agricultural land in Hong Kong is being utilized to help estimate the size of the areas under cultivation. Active agricultural land refers to farmland which is cultivated for production at the time of the survey, while abandoned agricultural land refers to farmland covered by wild growth without any signs of cultivation.

(5) On the basis of the data collected by the AFCD through the rolling surveys, there were about 729 hectares of active agricultural land and 3 794 hectares of abandoned agricultural land in Hong Kong as at 31 December 2013. Amongst these, information from the LandsD indicates that about 173 hectares of active agricultural land and 843 hectares of abandoned agricultural land are situated on Government land. We are unable to provide data as at 31 March 2015.

(6) The LandsD secured funding last year to study the feasibility of converting into digital form land record information (such as Lot Index Plan, Demarcation District Sheet and Survey Record Plan) currently being sold in paper form to the public at the LandsD's sales counters for dissemination on the Internet. The relevant project is in the preparation stage and is estimated to be completed in the first quarter of 2017.

Impact of Microbeads Contained in Beauty and Skin Care Products on Environment

11. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that as the minute plastic beads (microbeads) contained in beauty and skin care products are less than 1 mm in diameter, they cannot be filtered out by the existing sewage treatment facilities. The microbeads discharged into the sea 8990 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 seriously affect marine ecology, which has aroused the concerns of the environmental protection authorities in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, etc. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has compiled statistics on the number of beauty and skin care products containing microbeads available on the market in Hong Kong at present; whether the Government will publish a list of such products;

(2) whether it has compiled statistics on the concentration of microbeads contained in the water discharged into the sea by local sewage treatment works;

(3) whether it has studied the level of microbeads in the sea water within Hong Kong waters, and assessed the impact of microbeads on the local marine ecology;

(4) whether it will follow the practice of some countries in Europe and America by completely banning the import, sale and manufacture of products containing microbeads in Hong Kong; if it will not, what measures the Government has in place to reduce the impact of microbeads on the local marine ecology; if it will, of the details;

(5) whether it will educate the public on the impact of microbeads on the ecosystem and encourage the public to reduce the use of beauty and skin care products containing microbeads; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(6) whether it will implement a labelling scheme to encourage manufacturers and agents of beauty and skin care products to affix labels to their products specifying whether such products contain microbeads?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, the potential environmental and ecological impact of minute plastic beads (microbeads) is an emerging environmental topic, and there is so far no international consensus or conclusion. International concern on microbeads mainly covers two aspects. First, if microbeads are discharged from untreated or treated wastewater into enclosed water bodies, such as lakes, microbeads may LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8991 gradually accumulate, and if consumed by aquatic organisms as food, the ecosystem may be affected. Second, possible adsorption and accumulation of toxic substances onto the surface of microbeads may also lead to ecological impact, and the toxic substances may enter the food chains. Regarding the sources of microbeads, some may come from beauty and skin-care products as well as from the natural degradation of abandoned plastic materials.

In Hong Kong, there is limited information and research on microbeads, and we have no sales statistics or inventory on those beauty and skin care products containing microbeads. Nonetheless, local sewage treatment plants do not discharge treated effluent into lakes or reservoirs and, coupled with the comprehensive control on the release of toxic substances into our aquatic environment, according to our existing monitoring data, the levels of toxic substances in our marine waters, sediments and biota are low and do not exceed local and overseas standards (for example, standards adopted by the United States, Canada, European Union, Australia and Japan) for the protection of marine life and human health. We consider that the potential environmental impact of microbeads should be relatively low in the local context.

We are closely monitoring overseas development and research on microbeads. At this stage we do not have any plan to introduce regulatory control on beauty and skin care products containing microbeads. We observe that overseas studies and long-term monitoring methods for microbeads are still being explored, and when the research methodology is more established, the Environmental Protection Department will consider conducting local studies to provide more accurate assessment of the local impact of microbeads, as well as the need for regulatory control.

Management and Operation of Computer Support Systems of Police

12. DR KENNETH CHAN (in Chinese): President, the operation support systems of the Hong Kong Police Force (HKPF), comprising the Operational Nominal Index Computer System (Index System) and the Criminal Intelligence Computer System, store the criminal records of individuals, data concerning wanted persons and missing persons, as well as intelligence. Regarding the management and operation of those systems, will the Government inform this Council:

8992 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(1) of (i) the respective current numbers of information items on Hong Kong residents and non-Hong Kong residents stored in the aforesaid systems, and (ii) the respective numbers of information items added to and deleted from the aforesaid systems in each of the past three years, with a breakdown by type of information (e.g. fingerprints, palm prints, photographs, DNA samples, criminal records, etc.); the criteria for the collection and deletion of such information;

(2) whether it has formulated guidelines on the collection procedure, collection targets, collection restrictions, time limit for storage and deletion procedure for the information stored in the Index System and reviewed the guidelines regularly; if so, of the details; if it cannot provide the details, the reasons for that; whether it can publicize the guidelines; if it cannot, of the reasons for that;

(3) whether it will consider commissioning the Audit Commission, the Office of the Ombudsman or the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data to scrutinize or review the management and operation of the Index System, so as to ensure that the system does not store any excessive and unnecessary information, and that the personnel concerned operate the system in accordance with the established procedures; if so, of the details of the scrutiny and review; if not, the reasons for that, and whether HKPF has any plan to conduct the relevant review; and

(4) given that HKPF will submit a funding application to the Finance Committee of this Council for replacing the infrastructure platform for the aforesaid two systems, whether HKPF will consider reviewing the management and operation of the systems at the same time; if so, of the details of the review; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, the infrastructure platform that currently supports the Police Operational Nominal Index Computer System (PONICS) and the Criminal Intelligence Computer System (CICS) is approaching the end of its serviceable lifespan. The Government proposes to replace the outdated infrastructure platform for maintaining effective daily operation of law-enforcement agencies. Our consolidated reply to Dr CHAN's question is as follows:

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8993

The PONICS maintains a central repository of criminal records in Hong Kong and details of all persons who are signified by the Hong Kong Police Force (HKPF) as "Missing Persons" or "Wanted Persons". The HKPF and other law-enforcement agencies may retrieve data from the PONICS for prevention and detection of crime and for execution of statutory functions. The HKPF also provide criminal conviction records to assist the Judiciary in performing its judicial functions during court hearings. As at March 2015, there were around 1.1 million criminal records in the PONICS which, however, does not maintain a breakdown by status as Hong Kong resident and non-Hong Kong resident, nor does it have figures of data addition or deletion on a yearly basis. The system does not keep information such as fingerprints and palmprints.

Under section 59 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), the HKPF may record and retain particulars of persons arrested and convicted for violating the law of Hong Kong. Criteria for deleting related data are formulated in accordance with section 59 of the Police Force Ordinance and other relevant laws. Circumstances leading to deletion of data include that the defendant is acquitted or his conviction is quashed by the Court on appeal, that the subject cautioned under the Police Superintendent's Discretion Scheme attains the age of 18 years or two years have elapsed since the administering of the caution (whichever is the later), that voluntary binding over orders and court orders under section 15 of the Juvenile Offenders Ordinance (Cap. 226) have expired, and that the person concerned is certified dead.

The HKPF adopt a strict mechanism to regulate the management and operation of the PONICS. Limited to "restricted use", the PONICS is operated by trained and authorized officers who are in stringent compliance with internal guidelines and procedures. The PONICS is also subject to a vigorous security checking mechanism, under which monitoring officers carry out sampling check of audit records on a regular basis to identify any unauthorized or improper use of data. Any suspected unauthorized access to the system or use of data, once spotted, will be investigated comprehensively by the HKPF, which may result in criminal prosecution or disciplinary action. As an internal document of the HKPF, the PONICS guidelines shall not go public. Formulated with reference to the law of Hong Kong, the guidelines will be timely updated by the HKPF in the light of relevant legislative amendments.

The HKPF have in place a set of proven and effective mechanism and procedures to ensure the high level of integrity, reliability and security of the PONICS. In their past internal monitoring, the HKPF spotted individual 8994 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 officers' violation of the regulations by making improper access to the system or use of data therein and, as a result, they were internally disciplined. Some of them had to face criminal liability by having been charged for the offence of "access to computer with criminal or dishonest intent". Given that the PONICS is an internal operating system, the HKPF have no plan to invite scrutiny by any outside organizations.

Utilization of Smart Technology Systems for Elderly Care

13. MR JAMES TO (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that the Singaporean Government has pre-equipped newly constructed Housing and Development Board flats with a smart network system, comprising a Smart Elderly Alert System which uses sensors to record the daily movement patterns of elderly singletons at home and, on detecting any irregular conditions (such as falling unconscious) of the elderly persons, informs (through cloud communication technology) their children or elderly institutions to take rescue actions for them. Besides, the British Government launched in 2012 a scheme called 3 Million Lives on elderly care by deploying smart technology systems. It has also been reported that smart technology can significantly reduce the manpower required for elderly care and can effectively monitor elderly safety. Regarding the utilization of smart technology systems for elderly care in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it has estimated the respective numbers of elderly singletons living in public housing and private accommodation; of the annual number of cases in which elderly singletons encountered accidents or died suddenly at home in each of the past five years, with a breakdown by 18 District Council districts and type of housing (i.e. public housing and private accommodation);

(2) given the rapid ageing of the Hong Kong population, whether the Hong Kong Housing Authority and the Hong Kong Housing Society will introduce relevant smart technology systems to newly constructed public housing units for use by elderly singleton tenants; if so, of the plans and timetables; if not, the reasons for that;

(3) whether it will encourage private residential property developers to introduce relevant smart technology systems to newly constructed buildings; if so, of the details; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8995

(4) given that as early as 2007, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University successfully developed the TeleCare System with functions identical to those of the aforesaid smart technology systems, but that system has not gained popularity, whether the Government will, by making reference to the practices of the Singaporean Government and the British Government, (i) purchase with public money, (ii) use in public housing or (iii) encourage public-sector organizations and statutory bodies invest in and promote, such smart technology systems which cannot be commercialized despite their benefit to people's well-being?

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, my reply to the question raised by Mr James TO is as follows:

(1) According to the 2014 data collected by the Census and Statistics Department under the General Household Survey, for 1-person domestic households aged 65 or above, 79 300 were living in public rental housing, 15 700 in subsidized home ownership housing and 66 800 in private permanent housing. The Government does not have the data on the number of cases where elderly singletons encountered accidents or died suddenly at home in each of the past five years.

(2) The Hong Kong Housing Authority (HA) provides Grant for Emergency Alarm System (EAS) (that is, Personal Emergency Link Service) for eligible elderly households to pay for the installation cost of EAS up to a maximum of $2,500 on a reimbursement basis.

If a public rental housing household has a family member with disabilities or chronic diseases who is in need of special care (whether the person is an elderly person or not), such tenant may opt for the special notification services provided by the HA. This tenant will need to provide emergency telephone contacts and other relevant information to staff members of the estate office, and authorize them to notify the contact person(s) and transfer relevant information to other departments such as the Police Force, Fire Services Department, and so on, in case of emergency (for example, fire).

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Separately, the Hong Kong Housing Society (HKHS) has, at its own expense, been providing an emergency call device to its one-person or two-person elderly households and will continue to provide the same to elderly tenants living in its new rental estates.

(3) and (4)

The Government has all along been encouraging the incorporation and application of suitable smart information technology (IT) systems into different residential developments.

The Innovation and Technology Fund (ITF) administered by the Innovation and Technology Commission (ITC) has been providing funding to support public and private sectors to engage in research and development (R&D) and application of technologies. In particular, a Public Sector Trial Scheme (PSTS) has been established under ITF since 2011 to provide additional funding up to the full cost of the original ITF-funded and completed R&D projects which have completed R&D for the production of tools/prototypes/samples and the conduct of trials in the public sector.

Several projects funded by ITF are specifically designed to enable welfare organizations to try IT applications in delivering services to elderly persons, such as intelligent blind guiding stick, wearable electronics using radio frequency identification (RFID) to monitor the elderly who are susceptible to losing their ways, drug labelling readers and community elderly information system.

An R&D Centre established by the Government has, in collaboration with the HKHS and The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, set up a mock-up flat (that is, "iHome") to demonstrate different technologies that facilitate ageing in place and how technology can enhance the quality of life of the elderly. There are also two R&D Centres which have developed a series of technologies applicable to the elderly community, including estate-wide mesh WiFi network for free video conference among the elderly and public announcement, radio-frequency identification (RFID)-tagged key chain holders for recording the use of community facilities, RFID readers to assist elderly by reading out notices or activity posters in the community, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8997

as well as interactive touch frame for mental training and e-health hub, and so on. Such applications are now being tested at the elderly flats of the Clague Garden Estate in .

The ITC will continue to encourage the trials of different technologies through PSTS.

Recruitment Policy for Heads of Departments Posts in One-rank Grades

14. MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Chinese): President, regarding the recruitment policy for Head of Department (HoD) posts of the civil service establishment, which are in one-rank grades (i.e. those without related grades from which eligible candidates could be drawn to fill the vacancies concerned), will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective titles and salary points of the posts in one-rank grades in various policy bureaux/departments at present;

(2) of the criteria based on which the Government has subsumed some HoD posts in one-rank grades; whether such posts are in the promotion ranks of other civil service grades; if they are not, of the general reasons and justifications for that; whether the Government has plans to convert such posts to those in the promotion ranks of civil service grades so as to ensure the smooth and continuous operation of various departments; if it has such plans, of the details;

(3) of the recruitment channels for such posts, whether they include internal transfer and open recruitment; the justifications and criteria adopted by Government for determining the recruitment channels for such posts; whether such recruitment channels have been changed since the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government; if so, of the old and new recruitment channels and the years in which changes were made, and set out the information by post title in a table; and

(4) whether the holders of such posts are employed on contract terms; if so, of the durations of their current contracts, and set out the information by post title in a table; the post titles, service periods and general way forward after leaving office (including retirement 8998 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

or promotion within the Government) of those persons whose contracts were not renewed upon completion of contracts in the past decade; whether the Government has assessed the impacts of appointing HoDs on time-limited contract terms on the formulation and implementation of policies by the Government?

SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE (in Chinese): President, generally speaking, one-rank grades at Head of Department or equivalent level fall into two broad categories. The first category includes posts that are filled by promotion from within the Civil Service and the eligible candidates may come from more than one civil service grade under the charge of the same or different department(s). The second category includes posts that may be filled by alternative means such as in-service appointment and/or open recruitment in view that these posts are, by design, posts without related grades in the Civil Service from which eligible candidates could be drawn to fill the vacancies by promotion, or there is a need to cater for the specific circumstances of the posts concerned, for example, to ensure a wide source of candidates. A list showing the one-rank grades at Head of Department or equivalent level and their respective pay scales is at Annex.

The terms of appointment for serving civil servants appointed to the one-rank grades above are governed by the terms and conditions of service applicable to them, while candidates from outside the Civil Service are appointed on civil service agreement terms.

The Civil Service Bureau does not compile information on individual post holders of one-rank grades over the years.

Annex

List of one-rank grades at Head of Department or equivalent level under the civil service establishment (position as at end of 2014)

Grade Pay ScaleNote 1 Commissioner for Innovation and Technology D6 2 Controller, Government Flying Service GDS(C)3 3 Director-General of Investment Promotion D6 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 8999

Grade Pay ScaleNote 4 Director of Civil Engineering and Development D6 5 Director of Drainage Services D5 6 Director of Highways D6 7 Director of Lands D5 8 Director of Planning D5 9 Government Chief Information Officer D6 10 Government Economist D4 11 Head, Efficiency Unit D4 12 Judiciary Administrator D8 13 Land Registrar D4 14 Law Officer DL6 15 Registrar of Companies D4 16 Secretary-General, University Grants Committee D4

Note:

D Directorate Pay Scale

DL Directorate (Legal) Pay Scale

GDS(C) General Disciplined Services (Commander) Pay Scale

Offences in Trade Descriptions Ordinance Relating to Unfair Trade Practices

15. MR PAUL TSE (in Chinese): President, this Council passed the amendments to the Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362) (the Ordinance) in 2012, and the relevant amendments provided for new offences relating to unfair trade practices e.g. "aggressive commercial practices" engaged in by traders. Earlier on, three persons were convicted by the Court for engaging in "aggressive commercial practices" in the course of selling body care therapy services and they were sentenced to imprisonment, which was the first case under this offence. It has been reported that a member of the public received a telephone call from a person claiming to be a bank staff and demanding him to make immediate and full repayment of his bank mortgage loan. That person also said that he could assist the member of the public in applying for another loan at a low interest rate so as to charge him a handling fee of $100,000-odd. In addition, an owner of a flat under the Tenants Purchase Scheme received a 9000 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 warning letter using letterhead bearing a logo similar to that of the Hong Kong Housing Authority, in which he was told that because he had contravened the Housing Ordinance (Cap. 283) for obtaining an unlawful loan, he might be liable to prosecution and his flat might be repossessed. He was further told that a loan could be offered to him to help him restructure his debts. Some people who have been so harassed indicated to me that even though they did not take out any loan in the end, the intermediaries still sought to extort intermediary charges from them through debt collection agencies by threatening to harass their family members. These people have enquired with me whether the authorities may invoke the amended Ordinance to prosecute the relevant persons and their employers. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the respective numbers of cases received by the Police, the Consumer Council and the Customs and Excise Department since the sections of the amended Ordinance relating to the aforesaid new offences came into operation in July 2013, in which duping, coercion, bait and even unlawful detention were adopted as the means to sell property mortgages and property re-financing, and how the relevant authorities have followed up such cases;

(2) whether it has studied the feasibility of invoking the amended Ordinance to prosecute the persons involved in the aforesaid cases and their employers; if so, of the outcome; if not, the reasons for that; and

(3) given the continuous soaring of property prices in recent months and the repeated occurrence of cases in which members of the public were harassed by intermediaries engaging in second property mortgages, of the advice that the authorities can offer members of the public on what they should do when they encounter harassment from intermediaries engaging in second property mortgage business; whether the Police, the Customs and Excise Department, the Hong Kong Monetary Authority and the Consumer Council will study the establishment of a dedicated handling mechanism, an inter-departmental/organizational handling mechanism, or a telephone hotline for offering assistance to helpless members of the public who are subjected to threats and harassment; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9001

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Trade Descriptions Ordinance (Cap. 362) (the TDO), as amended by the Trade Descriptions (Unfair Trade Practices) (Amendment) Ordinance 2012, came into full operation on 19 July 2013. The amended TDO tackles common unfair trade practices at source, prohibiting traders(1) from applying false trade descriptions in relation to goods and services and engaging in aggressive commercial practices, and so on. The Customs and Excise Department (C&ED) is the main enforcement agency of the TDO.

Under section 7A of the TDO, a trader who applies a false trade description to a service supplied or offered to be supplied to a consumer; or supplies or offers to supply to a consumer a service to which a false trade description is applied, commits an offence.

Under section 13F of the TDO, a trader who engages in relation to a consumer in a commercial practice that is aggressive commits an offence. A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances, it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer's freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and it therefore causes or is likely to cause the consumer to make a transactional decision that the consumer would not have made otherwise.

Meanwhile, under section 30(1) of the Money Lenders Ordinance (Cap. 163), a person shall not, by any false, misleading or deceptive statement, representation or promise, or by any dishonest concealment of material facts, fraudulently induce or attempt to induce any person to borrow money from a money lender. The Companies Registry is responsible for handling administrative matters related to the processing of licence applications and renewals. The Hong Kong Police Force (HKPF) is responsible for the enforcement of the Money Lenders Ordinance.

If the practices of a trader or an individual involve other criminal elements, The HKPF may take enforcement actions in relation to the offence of criminal intimidation under the Crimes Ordinance (Cap. 200), the offences of fraud and blackmail under the Theft Ordinance (Cap. 210) or the offence of falsely pretending to be a public officer under the Summary Offences Ordinance (Cap. 228).

(1) The TDO does not apply to goods or services sold or supplied under the regulation of the Insurance Companies Ordinance (Cap. 41), the Banking Ordinance (Cap. 155), the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Ordinance (Cap. 485) or the Securities and Futures Ordinance (Cap. 571). 9002 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Our reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:

(1) The number and handling of complaints received from 19 July 2013 (the date on which the amended TDO came into full operation) to 28 February 2015 by the C&ED involving aggressive commercial practices of financial companies providing property mortgage and property re-financing services, and by the Consumer Council involving sales practices and price disputes of financial companies providing property mortgage and property re-financing services, are set out at the Annex.

Separately, from July 2013 to February 2015, the HKPF has handled 60 cases of loans-related offences. The HKPF has not further categorized the cases by whether property mortgage and property re-financing services are involved.

(2) Every case is unique. Whether an offence under any individual ordinance is committed should be determined according to the facts and evidence of each case. A generalized conclusion cannot be drawn readily.

(3) As far as the enforcement of the TDO is concerned, the C&ED will continue to monitor market trends and proactively deal with complaints, and will also maintain close liaison with other regulatory authorities in order to take appropriate enforcement or follow-up actions. The HKPF is concerned about illegal money-lending practices and has taken enforcement actions on various occasions in recent years. The HKPF will continue to take proactive actions to combat illegal money-lending practices.

The Government and related organizations have been, through different channels, reminding the public of the points to note when taking out loans. The Investor Education Centre (a dedicated organization for enhancing the public's knowledge and skills in financial management), the Consumer Council and the Hong Kong Monetary Authority organize public education activities from time to time, reminding the public to understand thoroughly relevant terms and conditions (including those concerning interest rates and other fees and charges) before they enter into any loan agreements or financial contracts.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9003

Annex

The number and handling of complaints received from 19 July 2013 to 28 February 2015 by the C&ED involving aggressive commercial practices of financial companies providing property mortgage and property re-financing services, and by the Consumer Council involving sales practices and price disputes of financial companies providing property mortgage and property re-financing services

Customs and Consumer Excise Council Department Total number of complaints ((A)+(B)+(C)) 11 88(1) (A) Number of cases pursued - Number of cases investigated 1(2) Not applicable - Number of cases referred to other authorities 3 Not applicable - Number of cases conciliated Not applicable 56 (B) Number of cases that are not pursuable/require 7 22 no further action and(3) (C) Number of cases still in progress 0 10

Notes:

(1) The Consumer Council does not further categorize the complaint cases by whether duping, coercion, bait or unlawful detention is involved.

(2) The C&ED has upon investigation found that no offence is involved.

(3) Reasons that cases are not pursuable/require no further action include: the complainant only sought to put their cases on record, the complainants were unable to provide sufficient information on the cases, the cases fell outside the relevant agency's jurisdiction, the cases lacked justifications, the cases did not involve any offences, and so on.

Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank

16. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, the Financial Secretary said in the Budget Speech this year that in "(l)ast October, over 20 countries signed a memorandum of understanding in Beijing and formally announced a plan to establish the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB). We shall 9004 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 endeavour to leverage our strength in financing and asset management to support its establishment and operation, and pursue actively the possibility of our joining AIIB". In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the role and specific tasks undertaken by the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) Government in the preparatory work for establishing AIIB, and whether it has signed any agreement or memorandum in this connection with the parties concerned; if so, of the contents and other details of such agreements or memoranda;

(2) whether it has conducted any detailed feasibility study on issues such as the role of, the positioning of, the rights and obligations for, as well as the risks to be borne by, the HKSAR Government in AIIB; if so, of the details; if not, whether it will conduct the relevant study; and

(3) whether it will give this Council and the public an account of the details and technicalities on HKSAR's joining AIIB beforehand; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Chinese): President,

(1) At present, 57 prospective founding members (including China) are working on the draft Articles of Agreement for the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), including the procedures and rules for admission of new members. The work is to be completed by end June 2015 and the AIIB is targeted to commence operation by end 2015. Last December, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) Government indicated to the Central Government its intent to join the AIIB and has received positive responses from the Central Government. Representatives of the HKSAR Government attended the third Chief Negotiators' Meeting held in Kazakhstan in late March as members of the Chinese delegation, and participated in the discussion of the Articles of Agreement. Hong Kong has not yet signed any agreement or memorandum on its joining the AIIB. We will continue to discuss with the Central Government an appropriate arrangement for Hong Kong to join the AIIB as a non-sovereign territory. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9005

(2) and (3)

The HKSAR Government has examined the feasibility and potential benefits of Hong Kong's joining the AIIB. On the role and positioning of Hong Kong, we note in particular that there is enormous demand for infrastructure investment in Asia. As infrastructure projects generally involve huge capital commitments and a rather long implementation and payback period, our financing and asset management professionals and various financial products can support the operation of the AIIB in areas such as project financing, investment, financial management and foreign exchange management. Our professional services and financial services industries will stand to benefit. Meanwhile, all AIIB members should fulfil their obligations as members, including paying the subscribed capital. As the AIIB's Articles of Agreement are still being drafted, details about Hong Kong's participation (including our rights and obligations) can only be ascertained after the Articles of Agreement are finalized. The HKSAR Government will report the details to the Legislative Council prior to Hong Kong's joining the AIIB.

Annual Examinations of Commercial Vehicles

17. DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that on 30 March this year, a fatal traffic accident occurred in Kwun Tong in which a nearside front tyre of a moving public light bus (PLB) suddenly spun off and hit a female passer-by to death. Some experts suspect that the wheel hub assembly of the PLB concerned was broken due to metal fatigue, causing the tyre to come loose. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) given that owners of commercial vehicles are required to make arrangements each year for their vehicles to undergo examinations at vehicle examination centres (annual examinations), of the number of commercial vehicles receiving annual examinations vehicle repair orders for which were issued by vehicle examiners in each of the past three years, with a breakdown by the inspection items involved in such repair orders;

9006 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(2) whether the wear and tear condition of wheel hub assemblies is one of the inspection items covered by annual examinations for commercial vehicles under the existing legislation; if it is not, of the reasons for that; and

(3) whether it will explore imposing a requirement that commercial vehicles reaching a specified age must have the wheel hub assemblies replaced before vehicle licences may be renewed; if it will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, my reply to the various parts of Dr Elizabeth QUAT's question is as follows:

(1) Over the past three years, the Transport Department (TD) has conducted a total of 503 930 vehicle examinations on commercial vehicles (that is, buses, light buses, taxis, goods vehicles, special purpose vehicles and trailers). Of these examinations, 24 131 (around 5%) failed to pass the requirements and the relevant vehicles were required to undergo re-examination. The TD has issued vehicle repair orders to vehicles that need to be re-examined. A breakdown by the inspection items involved in such repair orders is as follows:

Year 2012 2013 2014 Item# Braking system 4 631 4 636 4 552 Body accessories 4 149 4 832 3 917 Suspension and steering systems 3 350 3 436 2 938 Engine and exhaust system 2 060 2 439 2 429 Lighting system 1 934 2 030 2 131 Chassis 761 1 003 811 Wheels/Tyre damage 861 949 927

Note:

# The same vehicle may fail in more than one item.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9007

(2) The annual vehicle examination of commercial vehicles currently conducted by the TD is generally similar to other international vehicle examination procedures. Items to be inspected include the conditions of wheels and tyres, and whether the wheel nuts/bolts of a vehicle are securely tightened. Wheels of commercial vehicles that are found to be in severe wear and tear may not pass the annual examination.

(3) Currently, the TD will inspect various vehicle components during the annual vehicle examination. If the vehicle components are found to be defective, the vehicle concerned will not pass the annual examination. Since the condition of a vehicle is affected by different factors and is not directly related to its mileage and age, it may not be justifiable to impose a mandatory requirement that commercial vehicles which have been in use on the road for a specified number of years should have their wheel hub assemblies replaced. The TD will continue to communicate with the transport trade through regular conferences, and remind vehicle owners and drivers of their responsibilities to pay attention to the conditions of their vehicles and undertake regular and proper maintenance, so as to ensure that the vehicles are kept in good condition and run safely on roads.

Development of Arts and Cultural Industry in Hong Kong

18. MR CHRISTOPHER CHUNG (in Chinese): President, the Working Group on Manufacturing Industries, Innovative Technology, and Cultural and Creative Industries (MICWG) is one of the four working groups under the Economic Development Commission established in January 2013 and chaired by the Chief Executive. Regarding the work of MICWG and the development of arts and cultural industry in Hong Kong, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the number of meetings held and the issues discussed by MICWG since its establishment; among such issues, the percentage of those relating to the arts and cultural industry;

9008 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

(2) as the ambit of MICWG includes consideration of how the Government may "further promote Hong Kong's design industry and strengthen Hong Kong's role in the art trade (e.g. staging of ArtHK)", what concrete proposals in this respect have been put forward by MICWG;

(3) whether the authorities will consider including "facilitating the entry of Hong Kong's arts and cultural industry into the mainland market" in MICWG's ambit; if they will, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;

(4) given that the internationally renowned Art Basel has staged exhibitions annually in Hong Kong since 2013 and attracted quite a number of overseas galleries coming to Hong Kong to participate in the exhibitions, which promote Hong Kong's art trade market, whether MICWG has studied ways to help Hong Kong's arts and cultural industry to develop overseas markets through the exhibitions; if it has studied, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and

(5) as the Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development is currently the only ex-officio member of MICWG, whether the authorities will consider appointing the Secretary for Home Affairs, whose policy portfolio includes arts and culture, to be an ex-officio member of MICWG; if they will not, of the reasons for that; given the fact that a culture bureau will not be established in the near future, whether the authorities will consider setting up a high-level inter-departmental task force to be responsible for the development of Hong Kong's arts and cultural industry?

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, the Government attaches great importance to the development of industries. The Economic Development Commission (EDC) established in 2013 and led personally by the Chief Executive provides visionary direction and advice on the overall strategy and policy to broaden Hong Kong's economic base and to enhance Hong Kong's economic growth and development; and to explore and identify growth sectors or clusters of sectors which present opportunities for Hong Kong's further economic growth, and recommend possible policy and other support measures for these industries. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9009

The four Working Groups under the EDC, including the Working Group on Manufacturing Industries, Innovative Technology, and Cultural and Creative Industries (MICWG), have actively discussed possible policy and measures for promoting the development of relevant industries. The MICWG has progressively submitted specific recommendations on the policy and measures for supporting individual sectors for the EDC's endorsement, and for the Government's consideration and implementation as appropriate.

In response to the five-part question, my consolidated reply is as follows:

(1) to (2)

Since its establishment in 2013, the MICWG has held eight meetings. With regard to the industries under its ambit, the MICWG generally considers that Government support policies and measures should focus on four main areas, namely, nurturing and attracting talents; infrastructural support; Government institutional support and tapping into the Mainland market; as well as encouraging collaboration between various business sectors and the innovative technology and cultural and creative industries. In the past two years, the MICWG has made a number of specific recommendations for promoting the cultural and creative industries, including offering overseas internship opportunities to talents in the design sector, supporting the post-production sector of the film industry, and supporting the sustainable development of the fashion industry. These recommendations have been endorsed by the EDC and accepted by the Government.

(3) to (5)

The Government has capitalized on Art Basel Hong Kong (Art Basel HK) since its inception in 2013 to promote local art development and local artists. For example, the Leisure and Cultural Services Department (LCSD) organized a number of exhibitions featuring the works by local artists at its venues during the Art Basel HK period, thus providing local and overseas visitors with the opportunity to learn more about the local art scene and artists. On the other hand, overseas visitors attending Art Basel HK were invited to visit LCSD museums; and Art Basel HK and LCSD museums would cross-distribute their promotional materials. 9010 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Moreover, the West Kowloon Cultural District Authority (WKCDA) has been actively organizing exhibitions and events during the Art Basel HK to promote Hong Kong's art, M+ and the West Kowloon Cultural District (WKCD) to the international arts community. For example, during this year's Art Basel HK, M+ presented its inaugural moving image project "Mobile M+: Moving Images" with thematic screenings to explore ideas of contemporary migration, mobility and home, as well as an exhibition of works from M+'s growing moving image collection. The WKCDA also held its annual press conference at the fair venue to provide an update on the WKCD project, and attended, as speakers, seminars and talks on Hong Kong's art and museum practices held during the fair period to enable participants to know more about Hong Kong's art and M+.

The MICWG will continue to examine possible directions for supporting the development of industries (including the cultural and arts industries), and study and discuss possible measures in co-ordination with relevant government bureaux or departments as appropriate so as to make specific recommendations to the EDC. Moreover, the senior management of the Home Affairs Bureau, Commerce and Economic Development Bureau and LCSD also have meetings regularly to exchange views on policy issues regarding the promotion and development of the cultural and creative industries.

Introduction of Local Legislation to Implement Article 23 of Basic Law

19. MR FREDERICK FUNG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that as the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region has not yet enacted laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, etc. pursuant to Article 23 of the Basic Law, the Government plans to commence the enactment of an "anti-Hong Kong independence law" immediately after this Council's voting in June or July this year on the proposal of selecting the Chief Executive (CE) by universal suffrage in 2017. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the authorities' deployment for introducing legislation to implement Article 23; whether such deployment includes phased introduction of such legislation; if so, of the legislative priority of prohibiting acts of secession (including advancing Hong Kong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9011

independence), as well as the provision in the Basic Law on which the phased introduction of such legislation is based and the justifications thereof; whether the authorities' naming and criticizing in this year's Policy Address some featured articles on Hong Kong independence published in Undergrad, a magazine of the Hong Kong University Students' Union, is part of such deployment;

(2) whether it has assessed if the authorities' phased introduction of legislation to implement Article 23 contradicts the statements made repeatedly by CE and the relevant officials in the past that there was no plan to introduce legislation to implement Article 23; if it has assessed, of the outcome; and

(3) whether it has assessed if there is currently only a small number of people in Hong Kong supporting the proposition of Hong Kong independence; if the assessment outcome is in the affirmative, whether it has examined if the frequent criticisms on the proposition of Hong Kong independence by CE and people from the pro-Government camp will give the public the impression that their aim is to exaggerate the problem so as to create public opinions in support of the authorities' introduction of legislation to implement Article 23?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, the reply of the question is as follows:

The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) is constitutionally obliged under Article 23 of the Basic Law (BL23) to enact laws for national security. The HKSAR Government administers in accordance with the Basic Law. However, we do not have any plan to enact laws in respect of BL23 for the time being.

Any action to advocate Hong Kong's independence is neither in line with Hong Kong's position as an SAR nor with the relevant provisions in the Basic Law.

9012 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Combating Terrorist Activities

20. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that terrorist forces have been expanding incessantly in recent years and emergent terrorist organizations are actively recruiting members from various countries. As pointed out by the United Nations in a report released last year, around 15 000 people had joined the extremist organization Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), and its membership had kept growing. It has also been reported that around 300 Chinese have joined ISIL, and such situation has aroused concerns. In order to stop their nationals from leaving the country to participate in terrorist activities abroad, countries such as the United Kingdom and Canada have enacted legislation to empower law enforcement agencies to prohibit their nationals suspected of intending to join terrorist activities abroad from leaving the country, and to refuse those who have engaged in such activities from returning to the country. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether the authorities will, on the premise of not infringing on the freedom to enter or leave Hong Kong granted to Hong Kong residents by Article 31 of the Basic Law, implement departure restrictions to stop Hong Kong residents intending to join terrorist activities abroad from leaving Hong Kong, and to refuse those who have engaged in such activities from returning to Hong Kong; if they will, of the details; if not, the preventive measures the authorities have in place;

(2) whether the authorities have studied if the existing legislation and measures are sufficient to prevent extremist organizations from recruiting members in Hong Kong; if they have, of the details; if not, whether the authorities will draw up relevant legislation and measures; and

(3) of the details of the authorities' efforts to combat terrorist activities; the outcome of the assessments conducted by the authorities' in the past three years regarding the potential threats of terrorist activities; the respective numbers of persons who were arrested and prosecuted in the past three years for participating in terrorist activities; whether the Hong Kong Government has established channels with overseas law enforcement agencies to exchange intelligence on and conduct joint operations against terrorist activities; if it has, of the details?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9013

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, our reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:

(1) and (2)

Article 31 of the Basic Law protects the freedom of Hong Kong residents to travel and to enter or leave Hong Kong. Nonetheless, Hong Kong all along has a strong legal framework and law-enforcement capacity to prevent and tackle terrorism. Any person who commits a terrorist offence in Hong Kong is punishable under the common law and various local ordinances, such as the Crimes Ordinance (Cap. 200) and the Offences Against the Person Ordinance (Cap. 212). In addition, a number of international conventions against terrorism have been made applicable to Hong Kong through local legislation to combat terrorist activities such as collection for funds and supply of weapons to terrorists. Under the United Nations (Anti-Terrorism Measures) Ordinance (the Ordinance) (Cap. 575), the authority may, from time to time, specify terrorists and terrorist bodies in accordance with the latest announcement of the United Nations. The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant has been specified as a terrorist body under the Ordinance. According to section 10 of the Ordinance, a person commits an offence if he becomes a member or recruits another person to become a member of a specified body, and is liable to imprisonment for seven years on conviction. Section 3 of the Ordinance stipulates that such an offence applies to a Hong Kong permanent resident outside Hong Kong. In other words, it is against the law for a Hong Kong citizen to join in any places such terrorist bodies as a member.

(3) Strengthening counter-terrorism work is one of the operational priorities of the Commissioner of Police in 2015. The Hong Kong Police Force will continue to monitor trends of terrorist activities to ensure readiness at all times. They will also provide security advice for critical infrastructure and sensitive premises, and arrange counter-terrorism patrols. The Police will also conduct training and multi-agency exercises regularly to practise and enhance counter-terrorism contingency plans to prepare for emergencies.

9014 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

The Police have been conducting timely assessments of the terrorist threat for Hong Kong and maintaining close liaison with law-enforcement agencies (LEAs) of other regions to exchange intelligence and threat assessments. At present, there is no specific intelligence suggesting that Hong Kong is a potential target of terrorist attack. The threat of terrorist attacks for Hong Kong remained at the "moderate" level in the past three years. During the period, no one was arrested or prosecuted for terrorism activities. It is not appropriate for the Police to disclose details of intelligence exchange with overseas LEAs.

Measures Against Money Laundering and Control of Raw Materials for Manufacturing Drugs

21. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that a Mexican drug trafficking syndicate uses Hong Kong as a base for money laundering and sources in Hong Kong the raw materials for manufacturing methamphetamine (commonly known as "ice"). Regarding the Government's measures to combat money laundering and control of the raw materials for manufacturing drugs, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) of the details of the current measures for combating money laundering; whether it has assessed the effectiveness of such measures in the past five years; if it has, of the outcome, together with a breakdown of (i) the overall statistics on money laundering cases and (ii) the statistics on money laundering cases relating to drug trafficking, in the past five years (set out in tables of the same format as Table 1 and Table 2);

Table 1 Number of Number of Total value of Amount of Year prosecutions persons assets crime proceeds instituted prosecuted restrained confiscated 2010 2011 2012 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9015

Number of Number of Total value of Amount of Year prosecutions persons assets crime proceeds instituted prosecuted restrained confiscated 2013 2014

Table 2 Number of convicted persons sentenced to Number imprisonment imprisonment imprisonment imprisonment of imprisonment imprisonment for one to for two to for three to for four to persons for less than for five years less than less than less than less than convicted one year or more two years three years four years five years

2010 2011

2012 2013 2014

(2) whether it has compiled statistics on the nationality distribution of the criminals engaging in money laundering in the past five years; if it has, of the details; and the authorities' new initiatives to educate the public not to engage in money laundering activities;

(3) as lawbreakers may use pseudoephedrine to manufacture drugs, of the current control in Hong Kong on such chemical and on drugs containing such chemical; of the import, export and re-export figures of Hong Kong relating to such chemical and drugs as well as the major countries to which they were exported, in each of the past five years; and

(4) whether it knows how many types of chemicals, apart from pseudoephedrine, are currently classified by other jurisdictions as the key raw materials for manufacturing drugs; of the export and import control on such chemicals in Hong Kong; and the details of the law enforcement actions in the past five years?

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SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, the Food and Health Bureau, and relevant departments, the reply to the question is as follows:

(1) and (2)

Hong Kong has in place a comprehensive and effective anti-money laundering/counter financing of terrorism (AML/CFT) regime. We have been actively implementing the recommendations of international organizations such as the "Financial Action Task Force" (FATF). The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorist Financing (Financial Institutions) Ordinance (Cap. 615) (AMLO) has been in full operation since 1 April 2012 with a view to fulfilling FATF's requirements and further strengthening the regulatory system of the financial institutions.

In respect of law enforcement, we take active actions, including applying to the Court for restraint and confiscation orders to confiscate crime proceeds; as well as instituting prosecution in relation to money laundering crimes. According to information provided by the Department of Justice, the number of money laundering cases prosecuted, persons convicted, and value of assets restrained and confiscated in the past five years are as follows:

Number of prosecutions Number of persons Year instituted prosecuted 2010 332 424 2011 275 388 2012 156 186 2013 137 172 2014 168 219

Year Value of assets restrained(in $ million) 2010 347.8 2011 1,369.4 2012 1,387.2 2013 1,345.6 2014 1,091.3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9017

Year Value of assets confiscated(in $ million) 2010 104.2 2011 1,752.8 2012 49.7 2013 704.4 2014 318.3

Number of convicted persons sentenced to Number imprisonment imprisonment imprisonment imprisonment of imprisonment imprisonment Year for one to for two to for three to for four to persons for less than for five years less than less than less than less than convicted one year or more two years three years four years five years

2010 360 261 58 34 6 1 0

2011 246 153 54 28 10 1 0

2012 166 76 47 21 17 4 1

2013 140 58 29 26 7 12 8

2014 151 68 21 40 13 1 8

As for public education, to strengthen AML/CFT capacity of different sectors, the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, the Security Bureau, and the Joint Financial Intelligence Unit (JFIU) established by the Hong Kong Police Force and the Customs and Excise Department (C&ED), maintain close contact with the financial sector and "designated non-financial businesses and professions", including arranging regular seminars for exchange of experience, publicizing AML/CFT information as well as promoting the awareness of various trades of suspicious transactions reporting.

In addition, practitioners of relevant trades are required to carry out customer due diligence and record keeping in accordance with the AMLO, relevant industry practice circulars or guidelines. Regulatory authorities also issue notices regularly to remind trade members to pay attention to money laundering issues.

The JFIU has also set up a website to provide AML/CFT information to members of the public.

9018 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

We do not have further breakdown on the statistics of money-laundering cases related to drug trafficking. We also do not maintain statistics regarding the nationalities of criminals involved in money laundering activities.

(3) Under Schedule 2 to the Control of Chemicals Ordinance (Cap. 145) (CCO), pseudoephedrine is a controlled chemical. Save for the situations described in the Ordinance, any person having in his possession, manufacturing, transporting, distributing, importing or exporting such substance commits a criminal offence.

In addition, according to the Pharmacy and Poisons Ordinance (Cap. 138) and the Pharmacy and Poisons Regulations (Cap. 138A), pseudoephedrine is a poison in Part I of the Poisons List. Save for the situations described in the Ordinance, any person selling or having in his possession such poison commits a criminal offence.

In the past five years, the figures for the import, export and transhipment of pseudoephedrine in Hong Kong are as follows:

Year Import (kg) 2010 7 500.0101 2011 15 150.0004 2012 17 480.0229 2013 8 255.0005 2014 3 250.0012

Year Export (kg) Exported to 2010 0.04 India 2011 0 2012 0.0001 Macao 2013 0 2014 0

Year Transhipment (kg) Destinations 2010 1 099.5751 Korea Taiwan The Philippines The United States of America Switzerland Singapore LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9019

Year Transhipment (kg) Destinations 2011 34.3000 Taiwan Singapore Malaysia 2012 200 Singapore 2013 0 2014 0

In addition, in the past five years, the contents of pseudoephedrine in the imports and exports of drugs in Hong Kong are as follows:

Year Import (kg) 2010 1 782 2011 1 922 2012 2 310 2013 2 734 2014 2 031

Year Export (kg) Exported to 2010 5 440 2011 6 704 mainly the Mainland and 2012 12 323 Macao 2013 5 404 2014 5 619

We do not have transhipment figures for drugs containing pseudoephedrine.

(4) According to the "United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances 1988" (the 1988 Convention), there are, at present, 24 chemicals listed as precursors for the manufacturing of illicit drugs(1). These chemicals have been brought under the control of the CCO, with both imports and exports subject to control. It is necessary to apply for both a licence and an

(1) The 24 chemicals listed in the 1988 Convention include Acetic anhydride, N-Acetylanthranilic acid, Ephedrine, Ergometrine, Ergotamine, Isosafrole, Lysergic acid, 3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone, Norephedrine, Phenylacetic acid, 1-Phenyl-2-propanone, Piperonal, Potassium permanganate, Pseudoephedrine, Safrole, Acetone, Anthranilic acid, Ethyl ether, Hydrochloric acid, Methyl ethyl ketone, Piperidine, Sulphuric acid, Toluene and Alpha-phenylacetoacetonitrile. 9020 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

authorization for the import or export of such chemicals. A removal permit is required to remove controlled chemicals which are in transhipment.

Moreover, the C&ED undertakes strict enforcement actions in respect of the control of relevant chemicals at all boundary control points in Hong Kong. The C&ED also formulates targeted plans taking into account the drug trafficking trends, so as to intercept drug trafficking activities. Internationally, the C&ED maintains close liaison with Mainland and overseas law-enforcement agencies as well as international organizations for exchange of information and intelligence, and conduct joint operations where suitable.

Prices of Domestic Liquefied Petroleum Gas

22. DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, at present, only one major liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) supplier has established a price adjustment mechanism, and other LPG suppliers generally follow the prices set by that supplier in adjusting the prices of domestic LPG (including centralized LPG and cylinder LPG) sold by them. Some members of the public have relayed to me that this practice has resulted in LPG prices being quick to rise and slow to drop as well as an allegation of collusive price-fixing. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(1) whether it knows the respective current numbers of households in Hong Kong using the two aforesaid types of domestic LPG (with a breakdown by District Council district);

(2) whether the authorities have studied ways to promote competition in the domestic LPG market; if they have, of the contents and findings of the study; if not, the reasons for that;

(3) whether the authorities will consider requesting various LPG suppliers to establish their own price adjustment mechanisms and regularly publish the details of the price adjustments they made;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9021

(4) whether the authorities will consider publishing the data on the import and retail prices of LPG of various suppliers on government web sites for public inspection; and

(5) given that at present the specifications for cylinder LPG installations (such as the connecting equipment) are not standardized, and distributors often request users to buy the appliances sold by them to facilitate future provision of maintenance and repair services, whether the Government will consider introducing new measures to standardize the specifications for cylinder LPG installations and develop a common carrier system for gas fuel to allow users a free choice of domestic LPG distributors or suppliers, thereby promoting market competition?

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, the consolidated replies of the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department and the Environment Bureau to the above five questions are as follows:

(1) In 2014, the number of household users in Hong Kong using piped and cylinder liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) was about 220 000 and 210 000 respectively. The approximate number of the former in each District Council district is shown in Annex 1. We do not have similar figures for the latter.

(2) In a free market economy, the prices of domestic LPG (including piped LPG and cylinder LPG) are determined by oil companies having regard to commercial practices and their operating costs. At present, there are three and five LPG suppliers supplying piped and cylinder LPG respectively in Hong Kong. We understand that LPG suppliers generally provide different discounts to the estates using LPG and the retail prices of cylinder LPG charged by different suppliers are not the same. These reflect that certain price competition exists in the market.

(3) According to the price adjustment mechanism set up by a major local LPG supplier (hereinafter refereed as "the Company") on its own initiative, the Company, once every three months (that is, at end of January, April, July and October), sets the prices for the coming 9022 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

three months by forecasting the import prices for the coming three months in light of the latest international LPG price (that is, Saudi Arabia Contract Price), and making positive or negative adjustment for any difference between the actual import prices and the forecast import prices in the last review. According to our observation, the adjustments of listed prices of piped LPG and wholesale prices of cylinder LPG of other oil companies in the market generally follow those of the Company. Their price adjustments therefore also reflect the movements of international LPG prices.

We consider that it is of paramount importance that the prices of domestic LPG can reflect the movements of international LPG prices. Since the present price adjustment mechanism is able to reflect the movement of international LPG prices, we consider it not necessary to request LPG suppliers to separately establish their own LPG price adjustment mechanisms.

(4) Regarding publication of price information, in accordance with the Import and Export (Registration) Regulations, importers are required to lodge trade declarations with the Customs and Excise Department, and the Census and Statistics Department compiles import price statistics based on the information in the trade declarations and provides the relevant statistics to the Panel on Economic Development of the Legislative Council. The public can access the relevant import prices and the average retail prices of domestic cylinder LPG through the Legislative Council's website. We have recently added the linkage to this information on the Environment Bureau's website. Also, we are discussing with the oil companies on whether the price of piped LPG can be posted on the Government's website.

(5) The Electrical and Mechanical Services Department advises that customers are basically free to purchase their own gas appliances and choose their own cylinder LPG supplier irrespective of whether the specification of a LPG installation (such as the connector) is standardized or not. We understand that suppliers would change the connector free of charge to suit their supplied cylinder LPG.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9023

Based on the characteristic of LPG, it is not suitable for city network transmission. In general, LPG supply installation is erected within the area of a residential estate where LPG will be transmitted from a store to the consumers through gas pipework. Hence, taking into account the land constraint, gas risk, economical benefit, and so on, LPG is considered not suitable for common carrier system.

Annex 1

The Number of Household Users Using Piped LPG in 2014

District Approximate Number of Households 1 Central and Western 1 100 2 Eastern 11 000 3 Southern 16 700 4 Wan Chai 2 800 5 Kowloon City 7 200 6 Kwun Tong 9 400 7 Sham Shui Po 9 400 8 Yau Tsim Mong 3 900 9 Wong Tai Sin 3 000 10 Islands 8 500 11 Kwai Tsing 1 100 12 North 38 400 13 Sai Kung 5 200 14 Sha Tin 6 200 15 Tai Po 16 200 16 Tsuen Wan 10 300 17 62 200 18 Yuen Long 7 400 Total 220 000

9024 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

STATEMENTS

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Statement. The Chief Secretary for Administration will make a statement on the "Consultation Report and Proposals on the Method for Selecting the Chief Executive by Universal Suffrage".

In accordance with Rule 28(2) of the Rules of Procedure, Members may put short and succinct questions to the public officer making the statement, provided that such questions are relevant to the statement, but no debate may arise on the statement.

Consultation Report and Proposals on the Method for Selecting the Chief Executive by Universal Suffrage

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR) has published today the Consultation Report and Proposals on the Method for Selecting the Chief Executive by Universal Suffrage (Consultation Report and Proposals). I would like to brief Legislative Council Members on its contents.

Implementing universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive in 2017 is the most important policy objective of the current term of the SAR Government. The Chief Executive has emphasized on many occasions that selecting the next-term Chief Executive through "one person, one vote" in 2017 by 5 million eligible voters for the first time in our history is not only a big step forward for Hong Kong's constitutional development, but also a historic moment for our country. As such, the Chief Executive and the SAR Government will do our utmost to complete this task with the greatest determination and sincerity, so as to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive as desired by the public, as scheduled and in accordance with the law.

On 7 January this year, the SAR Government published the Consultation Document on the Method for Selecting the Chief Executive by Universal Suffrage (Consultation Document) and launched a two-month public consultation on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. The consultation period ended on 7 March. In strict compliance with the Basic Law, the design principles of the political structure of the SAR prescribed in the Basic Law, and the framework set out in the Decision of the Standing Committee LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9025 of the National People's Congress on 31 August 2014 (31 August Decision), the Consultation Document sought public views on the key issues regarding the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage.

During the consultation period, the Task Force on Constitutional Development (Task Force) led by me conducted an extensive consultation through different channels to collect views from the Legislative Council, District Councils, as well as organizations and individuals from different sectors of the community. Apart from meeting different political parties and groups and attending forums and seminars held by organizations from different sectors to exchange views on constitutional development issues, members of the Task Force also visited a number of districts to listen directly in person to public views.

During the brief consultation period of two months, we attended a total of 88 consultative sessions and district activities, and received over 130 000 written submissions from different organizations and individuals. The SAR Government also takes note of the fact that some academic, non-governmental and media organizations conducted relevant opinion polls during the consultation period. On behalf of the SAR Government, I would like to express our gratitude to all members of the public and the various sectors of community for their valuable views.

The SAR Government has collated and summarized the views received, details of which are set out in the Consultation Report. All written submissions and relevant opinion polls have been included in the Appendices and uploaded onto the constitutional development website for public inspection.

President, before I explain the key contents of the Consultation Report and Proposals, I would especially like to highlight an objective fact that stands out among all the views received from December 2013 when the first round public consultation was launched, up till the end of the second round public consultation, and from the first-hand experience of Task Force members' direct communication with the public and various sectors of the community. This fact is that: the community at large has all along been eagerly looking forward to the smooth implementation of universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive in 2017. This is a widely held aspiration in society which has been consistently reflected in various opinion polls.

9026 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Another important objective fact we should not overlook is that the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage has its origins in the Basic Law, involves a major change in the political structure of the SAR, and concerns the relationship between the Central Authorities and the SAR. Therefore, we must strictly comply with the "one country, two systems" principle, the relevant Basic Law stipulations, and the constitutional and legal position of the SAR when devising the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. These constitutional requirements also reflect the Central Authorities' status and role in deciding the method for selecting the Chief Executive.

Although members of the public have the common aspiration of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, and the Basic Law provides the basis for the universal suffrage method, the discussions in the community on constitutional development over the past year or so still led to controversies. As a pluralistic and open society, we understand there will be divergent views on issues concerning constitutional development. However, for constitutional development to move forward, we must seek common ground, set aside our differences and strive for consensus. The work of the SAR Government is to formulate, in strict accordance with the law, a package of proposals for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage that is constitutionally and legally in order, fair and reasonable, and at the same time take heed of factors including political realities and actual operation, to strive for universal suffrage through "one person, one vote" in 2017 as scheduled. This has been the working target of the Task Force over the past year or so.

President, before the launch of the second round public consultation, some political parties, Legislative Council Members, and individual groups had expressed opposition to the 31 August Decision. They demanded the 31 August Decision be revoked, to restart the "Five-step Process", and then boycotted the second round consultation. Despite the Task Force's repeated appeals to such political parties, Legislative Council Members and groups urging them not to boycott the consultation, no positive response has been received. Today, we sincerely put forth specific proposals that have been formulated on the basis of public aspirations as well as the overall and long-term interests of the Hong Kong community. I sincerely hope that the Members concerned can abandon their passive attitude, and work with the SAR Government and the public to implement a fair, open, just and transparent system for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. I believe this is what the general public expects of our legislators. As a matter of fact, our constitutional development has reached a critical juncture. Whether our constitutional development can move forward or LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9027 will suffer a standstill is now in the hands of every Legislative Council Member. Since the Basic Law gives each Member the constitutional power to examine the proposals put forth by the Government, Members should therefore shoulder this constitutional responsibility. This is a call made on you by this era, and it is history which places this responsibility on your shoulders.

President, I will now introduce the specific proposals put forth by the Government. First of all, I would like to give an account of the principles and factors that the SAR Government has fully considered in considering various issues relating to the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage:

(i) as the SAR Government has repeatedly emphasized, the proposals comply with the relevant provisions of the Basic Law and the 31 August Decision, so as to fully implement the principle of "one country, two systems" and to be consistent with the SAR's constitutional status as a local administrative region coming directly under the Central People's Government;

(ii) the proposals comply with the four major principles on the design of the SAR's political structure, namely, meeting the interests of different sectors of the society, facilitating the development of the capitalist economy, gradual and orderly progress, and being appropriate to the actual situation in the SAR;

(iii) the proposals are practical and practicable in terms of actual operation, transparent, and also help ensure that elections can be conducted in an open, fair and impartial manner;

(iv) the proposals could respond to the strong aspiration of the different sectors of the society to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive as scheduled, and to allow Hong Kong's constitutional development to move forward, instead of having a standstill; and

(v) the proposals could serve to strike a balance amongst the various different views and opinions in the society, to secure acceptance by a majority of the public, the Legislative Council, the Chief Executive, as well as the Central Authorities, so that the aim of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage could be attained. 9028 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

We can say that the proposals put forward by the Government are constitutional, lawful, fair and reasonable. We sincerely hope that we can have the support of the general public and Legislative Council Members.

President, according to the Basic Law and the framework as set out in the 31 August Decision, the number of members of the Nominating Committee remains 1 200 and shall follow the current composition of the Election Committee with members from four major sectors in equal proportions. On such premises, any changes to the number of subsectors would inevitably require the adjustment of the number of members in certain existing subsectors. The SAR Government notices that there is no heated discussion, nor a clear consensus in society on the suggestions regarding the increase or change in the number of subsectors, the number of Nominating Committee members returned by each subsector or expanding the electorate base of individual subsectors. Hence, if changes are hastily introduced, this would lead to even more controversies and would not be conducive to forging consensus in the community.

In view of the above, regarding the composition and formation method of the Nominating Committee, we suggest that the composition of the 1 200-member Nominating Committee should follow the 38 subsectors in the four major sectors of the existing Election Committee; the subsectors of the Nominating Committee and the number of members of each subsector should remain unchanged. Further, at the stage of amending the local legislation, we will suggest that the method for selecting the members of the 38 subsectors should remain unchanged and the electorate base of the 38 subsectors should remain largely unchanged; and that only necessary technical amendments will be made.

When the selection of the Chief Executive is implemented by the method of universal suffrage, the Nominating Committee will nominate Chief Executive candidates as an institution in accordance with democratic procedures, and such an arrangement will be different from the current arrangement whereby Chief Executive candidates are nominated jointly by members of the Election Committee. In designing the nominating procedures, we have to ensure that each Nominating Committee member will have equal rights, and that persons meeting the statutory eligibility requirements shall enjoy an equal right and opportunity to seek nomination from the Nominating Committee.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9029

The operation of the Nominating Committee should be transparent, so that persons seeking nomination would have equal and adequate opportunities to explain their manifestos and missions to all the members of the Nominating Committee or even the public.

Hence, regarding the procedures for the Nominating Committee to nominate Chief Executive candidates, we suggest that the nominating procedures should be divided into two stages, namely the stage of "members recommendation" and the stage of "committee nomination". Besides, we may consider providing a secretariat for the Nominating Committee to provide relevant reference materials, so as to assist the Nominating Committee to conduct the nominating procedures smoothly and in accordance with the law. Such suggestions could be handled through administrative arrangements, without the need for legislative amendments and can be dealt with at a later stage.

At the stage of "members recommendation", we consider that a threshold lower than the existing requirement of nominations jointly by 150 Election Committee members should be adopted, so as to encourage more interested persons to come forward to seek nomination. That said, there should not be too many persons seeking nomination, so as to avoid the public being confused, and to ensure that the recommendation process will be conducted in an effective and orderly manner. Therefore, we suggest that a person who can obtain recommendation jointly by 120 Nominating Committee members in their individual capacities could become a member seeking nomination for the Chief Executive election. Besides, to allow more interested persons to participate in the election, and to provide the Nominating Committee with more choices, we specifically suggest that each Nominating Committee member may recommend only one person and each person seeking nomination should obtain no more than 240 recommendations. The upper limit on the recommendations each person seeking nomination should obtain is new when compared with the existing arrangement. This means that the system could allow at least five and at most 10 places for persons seeking nomination.

During the stage of "committee nomination", since the Nominating Committee will nominate two to three candidates and those two to three candidates are required to obtain endorsement of more than half of all the members of the Nominating Committee, the design of the nominating procedures has to be conducive to providing sufficient choices for the Nominating Committee, and at the same time can facilitate the Nominating Committee nominating two to three candidates smoothly. As such, in the Consultation 9030 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Document, the SAR Government put forward four different voting procedures at the stage of "committee nomination" for consideration, namely, the "one person, three votes", "one person, two to three votes", "one person, maximum three votes", and "voting on each person seeking nominations".

The SAR Government suggests that the Nominating Committee should nominate two to three Chief Executive candidates through voting by secret ballot so that members could consider each person seeking nomination and such persons could seek nominations from Nominating Committee members on a fairer basis. Each Nominating Committee member may vote for all persons seeking nomination, or vote for only some of such persons. To facilitate the Nominating Committee to better carry out the nominating function, so that all eligible voters in Hong Kong may have ample choices at the stage of universal suffrage, and to ensure the nominating procedures could smoothly select two to three candidates who can obtain the endorsement of more than half of all the Nominating Committee members, each member should support at least two persons seeking nomination. The three persons seeking nomination who could obtain endorsement of more than half of all the members of the Nominating Committee and with the highest number of members' endorsement (or the two persons seeking nomination if only two such persons could meet these requirements) will become the candidates. Specific procedures for handling situations where no person, only one person, or more than three persons seeking nomination could obtain endorsement of more than half of all the Nominating Committee members will be dealt with by local legislation.

At the stage of electing the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, all 5 million eligible electors of Hong Kong may elect the Chief Executive-elect from the two to three candidates nominated by the Nominating Committee through "one person, one vote". In considering different voting systems, we have to consider whether the system is conducive to electing a person who is accepted by the community, whether it is practical in terms of actual operation, and whether it is simple, easy to understand, would enable voters to express clearly their voting intentions, and require less time and resources for holding an election because this is more helpful to the actual operation of the Chief Executive election process which already involves a number of procedures (including voter registration, formation of the Nominating Committee, the stage of recommendation, the stage of nomination, the stage of universal suffrage, and so on).

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9031

Regarding the voting arrangements for universal suffrage, the SAR Government suggests that all eligible electors of Hong Kong will elect the Chief Executive-elect from the two to three candidates nominated by the Nominating Committee using the "first-past-the-post" system, that is, only a single round of voting will be held, without requiring the candidate returned to obtain more than half of the total number of valid votes. Unmarked ballot papers will continue to be treated as invalid ballots. This recommendation does not involve amendments to Annex I to the Basic Law, and the specific voting method will be prescribed by local legislation.

Besides, we recommend that the term of office of the Nominating Committee should follow the existing arrangement of the Election Committee, that is, a five-year tenure. Since the term of office of the Nominating Committee is five years, in the event the office of Chief Executive becomes vacant as the concerned Chief Executive fails to serve the full term of office of five years as prescribed by Article 46 of the Basic Law, we suggest that the existing arrangement shall continue to be adopted, that is, the term of office of the new Chief Executive shall be the remainder of the previous Chief Executive.

Regarding the re-election arrangements if the Chief Executive-elect were not appointed, when amending the local legislation, the SAR Government will consider how to deal with the issue in response to the appointment decision of the Central People's Government.

To sum up, these proposals by the SAR Government are in strict compliance with the Basic Law and the relevant decisions of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC). At the same time, they fully take into account the views expressed by various sectors of the community and have been analysed in detail from different angles. Constitutional development is a complex and controversial issue. It is neither practicable nor realistic to expect that one package of proposals can meet the ideals cherished by different people. The elements contained in our proposals are attempts to find the greatest common ground and strike the right balance amongst numerous divergent requests and perspectives.

As I have reiterated many times in the past, even though the 31 August Decision provides the "legal space" for us to explore the specific arrangements for the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage at the local legislation level, the reality is whether we can secure the largest "political space" and forge the biggest political consensus during the process of devising the 9032 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 specific proposals. People from different political spectrums and different stakeholders in the community hold very different positions and divergent views on certain issues. It is very difficult to narrow these differences. I am pleased to see that in the past two months of public consultation, some thoughtful persons have devoted much effort and put forth some creative suggestions for the community to discuss, with a view to narrowing the gap between people of different political convictions. Although their suggestions did not in the end gain support from different political parties and groups, and the Government could not adopt these suggestions, I would like to take this opportunity to express my heartfelt gratitude for their unfailing efforts. In the coming few months, we still need their continued support to take forward implementation of the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017.

To successfully implement the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017 so that 5 million eligible voters will be able to select the Chief Executive by universal suffrage through "one person, one vote", we must secure the endorsement of our proposals by a two thirds majority of all Legislative Council Members. The SAR Government has put forward the specific proposals today. We hope that the Legislative Council would start examining the proposals as soon as possible with a view to completing the voting procedures before the Legislative Council's recess this summer.

President, our State leaders have repeatedly stressed in public that it is the sincere wish and determination of the Central Authorities to take forward the implementation of the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in Hong Kong. State leaders have stated in clear and unequivocal terms that implementing the selection of the Chief Executive by universal in 2017 is the solemn commitment of the Central Authorities, a basic requirement under the Basic Law and the relevant decisions of the NPCSC, and more so the earnest aspiration of Hong Kong people. Hong Kong has now reached a turning point on our "road to universal suffrage" and we must remain firmly committed to accomplishing this task. The Central Authorities expect that we make our best efforts, work with the utmost diligence, and strive to achieve the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017.

Since the first round public consultation on constitutional development was launched in December 2013, up to the release of the SAR Government proposals today, we have had more than 16 months of extensive and in-depth discussions on this issue. This has yet to take into account the years of discussion on the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9033 timetable for universal suffrage and related issues since the return of Hong Kong to the Motherland. Having travelled on this long "road to universal suffrage", I believe that all of you, like me, have a strong desire to reach this new milestone for Hong Kong's constitutional development and witness the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017.

When the second round public consultation on constitutional development was launched, the SAR Government stressed the need to "Seize the Opportunity in 2017!". The most pressing objective now is to make it happen and implement universal suffrage as scheduled and in accordance with the law so that 5 million eligible voters can elect the Chief Executive through "one person, one vote" in 2017. If the universal suffrage proposals for the selection of the Chief Executive are vetoed, we will miss this golden opportunity. Not only will constitutional development come to a standstill, it will also be impossible to say when the "Five-step Process" can be initiated again to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive. Conversely, if we can implement the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017, the Chief Executive selected by universal suffrage and the SAR Government under his or her leadership will have the political mandate required to further take forward constitutional development, including the aim of electing all the members of the Legislative Council by universal suffrage.

Some in the community consider that the Central Authorities or the SAR Government should commit to improving future electoral methods so as to raise public confidence in implementing the proposals. In fact, after the Chief Executive is selected by universal suffrage through "one person, one vote" in 2017, the ultimate aim of the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage as prescribed in Article 45 of the Basic Law will have been attained. Regarding the issue of improving the universal suffrage system after its establishment, the provisions in Article 7 of Annex I to the Basic Law and the 2004 Interpretation of the NPCSC already provide a clear legal basis for initiating such further amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive. Needless to say, whether there is a need to amend and initiate the relevant amendment procedures will have to be considered by the then Chief Executive in accordance with the actual situation prevailing at that time.

The Legislative Council has crucial constitutional roles and responsibilities in the constitutional development of Hong Kong. I sincerely urge all Members, especially our friends in the pan-democratic camp, to pause and reflect: if the Legislative Council vetoes the proposals, the aspirations of the general public to 9034 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 elect the Chief Executive through "one person, one vote" will be shattered, which would in turn be a great disappointment to the public; if constitutional development remains at a standstill, how can it possibly benefit Hong Kong's future constitutional development? Different organizations in the community have conducted various opinion polls. Most show that about half or more than half of respondents accept implementing the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in accordance with the Basic Law and the framework set out in the 31 August Decision. The public's view is crystal clear. I urge Members and political parties to demonstrate your courage and determination at this critical moment, to act in the overall and long-term interests of Hong Kong, and to heed the strong desire of the majority people and political reality in a pragmatic and responsible manner while pursuing your personal ideals.

At this historic and critical moment, the general public and I both expect Members to shoulder their responsibilities and to have regard to the overall situation, so as to allow Hong Kong's democratic development to continue to move forward to establish this most important milestone. Some political parties and groups and Members often focus only on the differences between the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage as devised in accordance with the Basic Law and the framework set out in the 31 August Decision and their ideal electoral model. This mode of thinking is not conducive to forging a consensus in the community, nor will it take forward constitutional development in Hong Kong. Around the world, it takes time for democratic development to go through a gradual process to reach consensus. Once the system is established, it still takes time to evolve and improve. We should weigh very carefully whether the passage of these proposals, or a standstill in constitutional development, will be a more favourable outcome for the overall and long-term interests of Hong Kong.

President, from the slogans of "Let's talk and achieve universal suffrage" and "A clear basis for achieving universal suffrage" in the first round public consultation, to "2017: Seize the Opportunity" in the second round public consultation, Hong Kong has experienced an extraordinary 16 months, including the 79 days of the unlawful Occupy movement. During this period, we saw heated debate in society, and even social order disrupted and the rule of law challenged. Nevertheless, the public's qualities of being rational, persevering, pragmatic and law-abiding were also displayed in full. I am proud to see each member of the public hold onto his or her duties, and for daily life and social order to get back on track quickly. Today, the Government sincerely puts forth specific proposals to respond to the strong aspirations of the public to implement LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9035 universal suffrage. I truly believe this is the biggest and most important step for Hong Kong's long-term constitutional development. It is also the most courageous step forward after overcoming many difficulties taking every step before.

President, last but not the least, I would like to conclude by citing the catchphrase on the cover of our Consultation Report and Proposals: "2017: Make it happen!"

Thank you, President.

(A number of Members yelled in their seats)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please keep quiet.

(Some Members continued to yell)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please keep quiet immediately. Members may now raise short questions on the statement made by the Chief Secretary for Administration.

MR ALAN LEONG (in Cantonese): President, the Government has disregarded public opinion and put forward a fake universal suffrage proposal, with the intention of deliberately tricking Hong Kong people into "pocketing it first". The pan-democratic camp thus strongly condemns the SAR Government. The proposal allows the nomination process and subsequently, the election result, to be manipulated by small circles, and Hong Kong people have been reduced to voting tools. Hong Kong people will defend their dignity and say "No" to fake universal suffrage. Members of the pan-democratic camp will definitely veto the constitutional reform package.

As the Government is hell-bent on having its own way, we will walk out in protest. We will launch an "Anti-Pocket-It-First" publicity campaign starting from today, urging Hong Kong people to stick to their guns and keep on striving for genuine universal suffrage.

(A number of Members shouted in their seats, walked along an aisle of the Chamber and left one after another) 9036 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting.

11.29 am

Meeting suspended.

11.31 am

Council then resumed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members may now put short questions to the Chief Secretary for Administration in relation to her statement.

(Mr Christopher CHEUNG stood up)

MR CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, can those placards displayed by Members who are presently not in the Chamber be removed?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, I think we should allow Members to ask their questions right away.

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): President, I thank the Chief Secretary Carrie LAM for her efforts made on behalf of the SAR Government over the past 10-odd months so that this landmark proposal for electing the Chief Executive by "one person, one vote" can finally be presented to the Legislative Council today.

President, Hong Kong people will definitely remember this popular saying: "How many decades can there be in one's life?" How many decades can the SAR have? It has five decades …

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9037

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please state your question right away.

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): … and 18 years have passed. The term of office of the Chief Executive is five years, and we have four Chief Executives who were not elected by universal suffrage. Starting from the fifth term, the Chief Executive may be elected by universal suffrage through "one person, one vote" …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, please state your question and stop expressing views.

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): As the Chief Secretary mentioned a moment ago, this is a golden opportunity, and we should "make it happen". If we want to "make it happen", we must take the first step, move forward and seek improvement. Nonetheless, President, Chief Secretary, please look over to my right hand side where numerous "X" placards are on display. As kindergarten and primary students would know, "X" means failure or being naughty and without discipline …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG Kwok-hing, if you keep on expressing your views …

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): President, I am going to put my question to the Chief Secretary. I am going to ask a question because of those "X"s …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please ask your question.

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): My question is as follows. As Members of the pan-democratic camp or the opposition camp see themselves as a failure, how can the Chief Secretary make these failing Members change their minds? Will the SAR Government strive to re-establish the channel of communication with the Central Government, so that a meeting between Central 9038 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Government officials in charge of the constitutional reform and all Members of the Legislative Council, including both passing and failing Members, can be arranged for holding frank discussion again to forge the greatest possible consensus in order to "make it happen"?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, despite my repeated reminders, you still spend more than three minutes to present your views. I would like to remind other Members that according to the Rules of Procedure, Members are only allowed to put short and succinct questions to the public officer making a statement, and not to present views.

Chief Secretary for Administration, please reply.

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to thank Mr WONG Kwok-hing for recognizing the efforts made by the Task Force on Constitutional Development as well as other relevant colleagues over the past 10-odd months. Regarding the performance of the pan-democratic Members, I think I am not in a position to make any comment, and I believe a judgment should instead be made by the electors. In the next two months or so, the SAR Government will spare no effort in lobbying pan-democratic Members' support for the proposed package. On the other hand, I would suggest that the pan-democratic Members may have the responsibility of explaining to the electors why, at this critical moment of history for achieving universal suffrage as mentioned by Mr WONG, they would veto the package proposed by the Government.

Mr WONG suggested arranging a meeting with Central Government officials in charge of the constitutional reform. That is what we have been doing all along. Over the past 10-odd months, we have arranged meetings between Central Government officials and all Members of the Legislative Council, including pan-democratic Members, in Shanghai, Shenzhen and Hong Kong respectively, with some sessions specifically arranged for the pan-democratic Members. We will continue to do so, especially if these meetings could facilitate a change of heart by pan-democratic Members in giving support for the constitutional reform package. We will definitely make similar arrangements. Nonetheless, I must reiterate that as repeatedly stated by the Central Authorities, the Decision made by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9039

(NPCSC) on 31 August last year is irrevocable and not amendable. It is a principle as well as the bottom line. Hence, the pan-democratic Members should have no illusion about changing this principle or bottom line through these meetings.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the two Secretaries of Departments and the Director of Bureau for their hard work over the past 10-odd months.

The constitutional reform package announced today is in line with the Basic Law as well as the 31 August Decision of the NPCSC. Moreover, it is also in line with people's aspiration for universal suffrage. I believe that with the passage of this package, the development of democracy in Hong Kong will embark on a new stage, signalling the start of a new chapter.

My question to the Chief Secretary is as follows. Since there is a difference between electing the Chief Executive by universal suffrage and by the 1 200-strong Election Committee, and the whole election process will take a longer time, have the authorities conducted any study to ascertain the time needed as well as the impact on society?

Should there be a tie vote, either at the nomination or universal suffrage stage, what arrangements would be adopted, say, holding another election, holding a penalty shoot-out or drawing lots? Would such matters be dealt with by local legislation?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, Mr LAM has raised two questions. I will answer the second question first. Regarding the specific situations that may happen during the election, we will deal with them by local legislation as such situations fall outside the scope of amendments announced today in relation to the Method for Selecting the Chief Executive under Annex I to the Basic Law.

Mr LAM spoke about the tight time frame for electing the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. This is a valid factor for consideration and hence, we propose that only a single round of voting will be held in the election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, using the "first-past-the-post" system.

9040 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

If the amendments to Annex I can be passed by the Legislative Council before summer recess, we will embark on amending the local legislation immediately, to be followed by voter registration, then the two stages of nomination by the Nominating Committee, namely, the stage of recommendation and the stage of nomination, and finally the election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. Theoretically we may have to leave some time to deal with the situation in case the Chief Executive-elect is not appointed by the Central Authorities.

For these reasons, we implore Honourable Members to take into account the tight schedule of the follow-up work required when scrutinizing the specific proposals proposed by us.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Secretary mentioned in her statement that during the two-month consultation on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, over 130 000 written submissions were received.

I would like to ask the Chief Secretary whether any views had been submitted by Members and political parties of the pan-democratic camp during the above consultation period? President, many members of the public are worried that if the constitutional reform package cannot be passed smoothly, Hong Kong's economy would be adversely affected, and so would people's livelihood. In this regard, I would also like to ask the Chief Secretary whether the SAR Government has, when striving to promote the constitutional reform package, thoroughly assessed the above situation and formulated any contingency plan?

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, what is your point?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): A point of order. As the Chief Secretary said that she would "make it happen", Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok has not listened to her words by asking about the contingency plan. Given the Chief Secretary's pledge to "make it happen", why is it necessary to have a contingency plan? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9041

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, what you raised is not a point of order, but your personal view. Please do not violate the Rules of Procedure.

Chief Secretary, please answer Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's question.

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, as Members of the pan-democratic camp and their political parties or groupings had boycotted the consultation, we had only received a few submissions from them during the two-month consultation period. It is not true that there are no submissions from them, as some organizations close to the pan-democratic camp had submitted their views. But such submissions only accounted for a small part, not a major part, of the submissions received.

Many people have expressed the view that if the constitutional reform package cannot be passed, the 5 million eligible voters would not be able to elect the Chief Executive by "one person, one vote" in 2017 and hence, creating difficulties for future governance. But personally, I am not totally pessimistic because I am sure that each term of the SAR Government will strive to achieve effective governance under the leadership of the Chief Executive. Nonetheless, if the constitutional reform package cannot be passed, 5 million people or all people of Hong Kong will be gravely disappointed at missing the opportunity to elect the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. Political disputes will likely go on, causing rifts in society continuously or even polarizing Hong Kong's political spectrum. Such a prospect is indeed worrying. That is exactly why we must try our best to secure the passage of this constitutional reform package, and I implore all Members present in the Chamber to help us in all possible ways.

MR CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG (in Cantonese): The Government's new slogan is "Make it happen". It shows clearly its great determination and confidence in striving to implement the election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017, which is a good thing. If successful, all people of Hong Kong will benefit from the sustainable development of Hong Kong's economy as well as people's livelihood. I sincerely thank the two Secretaries of Departments and the Director of Bureau of the "constitutional reform trio" for their continuous efforts in taking forward the constitutional reform.

9042 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

President, according to information disclosed by the delegation to Beijing two days ago, the Central Government would make no concessions on matters of principle. In other words, it is virtually impossible to amend the three major frameworks set out in the 31 August Decision. But what about other aspects, such as the formation of the 1 200-member Nominating Committee, that is, whether the electorate base can be expanded as a matter of principle so as to win the support of 14 pan-democratic Members? Chief Secretary, can you tell us clearly the scope and extent of amendments that can be proposed by the SAR Government under the constitutional reform package?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Thanks to Mr CHEUNG for the question. As I mentioned in the opening remarks, the present proposals put forward by the Government for electing the Chief Executive by universal suffrage has taken into consideration various factors, and they are constitutional, fair and reasonable. Hence, we do not see any scope for amendment. That is also why we will do our utmost to win the support of the general public for the present proposals to elect the Chief Executive by universal suffrage.

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, first of all, I give my support for you to visit different districts to solicit public support. From the meetings I had with leaders of the Central Authorities in Beijing over the past few days, I learnt that they are well-informed and highly conversant about Hong Kong's situation. Hence, I would like to ask whether the Government will take the initiative to arrange another meeting between all Members of the Legislative Council and officials of the Central Authorities? If so, whether the Government has already carried out the work, and when the outcome will be made known?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr LEUNG for the question. As I said a moment ago, over the past 10-odd months or so in taking forward the constitutional reform, we have been actively responding to the demand of Members of the Legislative Council to meet with Central Government officials in charge of the constitutional reform. Several meetings had been arranged, including seminars held in Shanghai and Shenzhen respectively, as well as two meetings in Hong Kong, namely, a breakfast meeting with the Director of the Legal Department of the Liaison Office LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9043 of the Central People's Government in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (LOCPG), and the other is of course meeting with Mr ZHANG Xiaoming, the Director of the LOCPG. Hence, the SAR Government will definitely and proactively follow up any initiatives that are conducive to passing the constitutional reform package or even enhancing communication between the Central Authorities and Members of the Legislative Council, so long as the participants are sincere and have such an aspiration.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, I must not be evicted from the Chamber because we start filibustering today. I must bite the bullet and stay here.

Chief Secretary Carrie LAM, I was trying to give you this pile of horse dung a moment ago when the President was entering the Chamber. "An underling gets haughty on the strength of his master's power; the constitutional reform package deceives Hong Kong people" …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, stop making lengthy comments or I will stop you from speaking.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): No, we are dealing with people here, and we have feelings towards a person, a specific person, yet they are all telling …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): You can only ask a short question.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, you come to the Legislative Council today because of a royal decree. On behalf of all people who had taken part in the and those who had voted for the pan-democratic camp, I present this pile of dung to you. "An underling gets haughty on the strength of his master's power; the constitutional reform package deceives Hong Kong people".

9044 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please ask your question immediately.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): What about this pile of "horse dung"? In the past, when the emperor went on royal progress, horses in the procession would leave behind piles of dung; the Communist Party has left behind a pile of dung …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, if you do not ask your question, I will stop you from speaking.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, let me quote from the Chief Secretary's speech ― unlike those shoddy Members, I have really done my homework. In paragraph 34, she said: "President, from the slogans of 'Let's talk and achieve universal suffrage' and 'A clear basis for achieving universal suffrage' in the first round public consultation, to '2017: Seize the Opportunity' in the second round public consultation …". Then she said in paragraph 35 that, "President, last but not the least, I would like to conclude by citing the catchphrase on the cover of our Consultation Report and Proposals: '2017: Make it happen!'"

In her words, constitutional reform is about "Let's talk and achieve universal suffrage" and having "A clear basis for achieving universal suffrage", right? But in fact, she has not explained the details …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please ask your question immediately.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): For me, instead of "Let's talk and achieve universal suffrage", it is a case of "Let's be shameless and unscrupulous and achieve screening" …

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9045

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, it is not the time to make comments. Please ask your question immediately or you must stop speaking.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Okay, you have left me with no choice but to say what I have to say.

Now some "lowly horse dungs" asked whether there are means to secure the passage of the constitutional reform package. I have a suggestion for the Central Authorities ― listen up, officials in the Central Authorities, stop believing those "horse dungs". It is provided under Article 50 of the Basic Law that, "If … the Legislative Council refuses to pass a budget or any other important bill introduced by the government …

(Mr WONG Kwok-hing stood up)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hing, please hold on. Mr WONG Kwok-hing, what is your point?

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung just said that he was giving his views rather than asking a question. Please ask him to raise a question instead of giving views.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG Kwok-hing, I am glad that you have noticed this point. Just now, you have set a very bad example.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, I am going to ask my question now. I would like to ask whether the Chief Secretary will seek the Central Authorities' agreement to act according to Article 50 of the Basic Law? Under that provision (and I quote): "If … the Legislative Council refuses to pass a budget or any other important bill introduced by the government, and if consensus still cannot be reached after consultations, the Chief Executive may dissolve the Legislative Council." As long as the Legislative Council is dissolved, all Members obstructing their so-called universal suffrage package would be ousted by public opinion. Hence I ask her whether …

9046 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, you have asked your question, please sit down.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Just a second, I must ask the Chief Secretary whether she will seek the Central Authorities' agreement to invoke Article 50 of the Basic Law and give the Chief Executive an opportunity to declare such a critical and opportune package as a bill or an important bill, so as to activate the process and oust those unpopular Members of the Legislative Council. Will she do so?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, you have asked your question. Please sit down immediately.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): If she does not do so, she should stop talking about public opinion anymore.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, sit down immediately and stop speaking. Chief Secretary for Administration, please reply.

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, as I said in the statement, I implore all pan-democratic Members who have previously adopted a passive attitude to change their mind at this critical moment by proactively and pragmatically considering the package proposed by the SAR Government which can practically achieve the election of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. Hence, I hope Mr LEUNG will also take part in the discussion in the coming two or three months along such a direction.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, she has not answered my question. She must state clearly whether it is "Yes" or "No", rather than just saying "No" and that's it. How can you tolerate her nonsense here? I am asking her …

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9047

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, there are clear provisions under the Rules of Procedure. You have already asked a short question, and the Chief Secretary has also given her reply.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): She could not even give us a "Yes" or "No" reply …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members are not allowed to raise follow-up questions regarding statements made by public officials.

Mr LEUNG, if you still refuse to sit down, I will exercise my power as the President and order you to leave the Chamber.

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung continued to speak while standing)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I have given you the final warning.

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung talked while leaving the Chamber of his own accord)

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, Chief Secretary, as we all know, the pan-democratic Members have time and again reiterated their opposition to "pocketing it first". However, nothing is certain in this world. In case some pan-democratic Members indicate that they will consider making a U-turn provided that the SAR Government undertakes to abolish all or some of the functional constituency seats in 2020, to be replaced by directly-elected seats, how will the Government respond to or follow up with this idea?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, if Mr YIU has noticed, I have pointed out in my statement that we could not make any commitment on electoral methods subsequent to 2017, be it the method for selecting the Chief Executive or forming the Legislative Council. In accordance with the Basic Law and the relevant Interpretation and Decision of the NPCSC, initiation of any amendment to such methods has to undergo constitutional procedures, or what we call the "Five-step Process" in short, and the first step is 9048 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 the submission of a report to the NPCSC by the Chief Executive in accordance with the actual situation. Against this background, it will be up to the then Chief Executive to consider whether the relevant procedures should be initiated in light of the actual situation. At this stage, we can hardly commit what the outcome will be after initiating the relevant procedures. No one can commit here what the actual situation and public aspiration will be by then, or what decision will be made by the NPCSC, the highest state organ of power, after the Chief Executive's kick-starting the first step by submitting his report to the NPCSC.

MR TANG KA-PIU (in Cantonese): President, I would like to ask the Chief Secretary through you about the nomination method or the issue concerning "committee nomination". According to paragraph 20 of this statement concerning the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage ― let me put it in more vivid terms ― the room for entering the stage of "members recommendation" is now so broad that a maximum of 10 people will be able to get "members recommendation". Based on the content of this statement, the 10 members seeking nomination will surely have a chance of obtaining the endorsement of more than half of all the members of the Nominating Committee. What should be done at that time? Those 10 members seeking nomination have fulfilled the two requirements laid down in the 31 August Decision of the NPCSC, that is, the endorsement of more than half of the members of the Nominating Committee and nomination in accordance with democratic procedures. How will this situation be dealt with under the local legislation? Will members or potential members seeking nomination query why they eventually fail to become Chief Executive candidates even though they have met the two critical requirements laid down in the 31 August Decision of the NPCSC? Will this arouse great controversy then? On the contrary, given the rather loose requirement on seeking recommendation, does it imply that it is also the wish of the Government to be lenient in the stage of "members recommendation", thereby giving the democratic camp the confidence that they will highly likely obtain "committee nomination"?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, perhaps Mr TANG may go through the details of the Decision of the NPCSPC made on 31 August last year. In addition to the two requirements pointed out by Mr TANG, there is another critical requirement, that is, the Nominating LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9049

Committee shall nominate two to three candidates for the office of the Chief Executive, who is to be selected by universal suffrage. On this basis, should the situation mentioned by Mr TANG arise, that is, 10 members or more than three members seeking nomination fulfil the first requirement of obtaining endorsement of more than half of all the members of the Nominating Committee, the three persons who obtain the highest number of members' endorsement will become Chief Executive candidates.

MR CHAN KAM-LAM (in Cantonese): President, as seen from most of the public opinion surveys conducted over the past period of time, around 60% to 70% of Hong Kong people supported the passage of the constitutional reform package. I believe the proposals on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage announced by the Government today should be able to secure more support from the people.

I would like to know if the Chief Secretary will continue to step up publicity efforts, apart from visiting various districts and holding press conferences, will she follow the Financial Secretary's practice of attending a radio programme simultaneously broadcast on four channels, so as to make all-out effort to seek public support? In this Legislative Council, actually the pan-democratic camp is not as rigid as an iron plate as you can see Mr Ronny TONG is still sitting in this Chamber. I believe there are some more rational Members who are willing to accept the Government's argument, so what will be done by the Government?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Mr CHAN for his question. We are of the view that in such a formidable task, public opinion may serve as a decisive factor.

As pointed out by Mr CHAN, after the 31 August Decision was announced, no matter what had happened in Hong Kong society, we can see that there were still more than half of the population who are determined to accept the specific proposals made on the basis of the NPCSC's 31 August Decision. Hence, in the coming two months until the Legislative Council is to vote on the proposals, the SAR Government will keep up our publicity work. I can say that I myself (and certainly including the other two members in the Task Force) as well as the officials concerned will make unreserved effort. We will undertake any measure 9050 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 that enables us to reach out to the public to explain the merits of the proposals and meet the objective of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. We will surely welcome any suggestions from Members which will strengthen and enhance our publicity efforts.

As a matter of fact, the Government has never stopped in lobbying the pan-democratic Members over the past 10 months or so. Regrettably, no progress has been made so far. Nonetheless, the world is changing rapidly, particularly in the political arena, we will therefore try every possible means to secure the support of all Legislative Council Members (including pan-democratic Members) for this specific proposal.

MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): The slogan chanted by the pan-democratic Members is "pocket it first means pocket it forever". I always ask the Chief Secretary whether she has a better proposal and she has given her answer in paragraph 31 of the statement, that is "… the issue of improving the universal suffrage system after its establishment, the provisions in Article 7 of Annex I to the Basic Law and the 2004 Interpretation of the NPCSC already provide a clear [legal basis] for initiating such further amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive". I would like to ask the Chief Secretary whether the constitutional reform package unveiled today implies that we have to "pocket it forever", or is it not the ultimate proposal?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): It is extremely misleading to say that "pocket it first" means "pocket it forever". As I have pointed out in the statement and quoted by Mr CHUNG just now, the existing Basic Law and the relevant Decision made by the NPCSC already provide the legal basis and procedures for initiating further amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive. Hence the then incumbent Chief Executive may, when necessary, initiate the legal procedures for making the necessary amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive on such legal basis.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, I welcome the specific proposals put forth by the Government on constitutional reform. This is an important milestone in the development of a democratic political system in Hong Kong. However, as stated by the Chief Secretary, whether the proposals can eventually LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9051 be passed to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive through "one person, one vote" in 2017 as scheduled depends on whether such proposals can secure the endorsement by a two-thirds majority of all Legislative Council Members.

Many members of the public have expressed a lot of views on constitutional reform, and the sector I represent has also given its views on issues such as the number of members of the Nominating Committee, as well as whether "corporate votes" can be replaced by "personal votes". In the face of so many dissenting views, I would like to ask the Chief Secretary, what are the factors for consideration in putting forward the current proposals? In paragraph 22 of her statement, the Chief Secretary stated that the Chief Executive-elect will be elected using the "first-past-the-post" system, without requiring the candidate returned to obtain more than half of the total number of votes as in the nominating procedure. What are the factors for considerations?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Insofar as the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage is concerned, since the first round public consultation, we have been stressing that the proposals should be considered from three aspects. The first is of course the constitutional and legal requirements; second, political considerations; and third, actual operation. Regarding the composition and the electorate base of the Nominating Committee mentioned by Mr TSE earlier, we find it difficult to forge a political consensus to propose any amendment following this round of consultation. For this reason, we suggest that the Nominating Committee shall follow the current composition of the Election Committee with 1 200 members coming from 38 subsectors in four major sectors, and the subsequent formation method of the Nominating Committee and the electorate base should remain unchanged.

On the question of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, actually people have different views. As pointed out in the Consultation Report, there are views which suggest the adoption of the two-round voting system under which the candidate returned will obtain more than half of the total number of valid votes, and this system will help enhance the legitimacy of the Chief Executive-elect. Yet, some consider that since the Chief Executive is to be elected by universal suffrage, the candidate returned should be able to secure several hundred thousand of valid votes, and he could have sufficient legitimacy. The Administration has also given special consideration to certain specific issues 9052 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 mentioned in my statement, including the need to devise a system that is simple and easy to understand, whether it is practical in actual operation, and the need to enable voters to express clearly the Chief Executive candidate of their choice.

More specifically, in replying to the question raised by Mr Jeffrey LAM just now, I have also said that the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage involves a number of procedures to be completed within a short span of time, hence we consider it desirable to adopt a voting arrangement that requires less time and resources. For this reason, the Administration considers it appropriate to hold a single round of voting whereby the Chief Executive-elect will be elected using the "first-past-the-post" system.

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong welcomes the Chief Secretary for introducing to this Council the train which takes us to democracy. Whether people of Hong Kong can ride on this train or whether the train heading towards democracy can set off depends largely on whether sufficient votes can be secured in this Council. If the endorsement of a two thirds majority of Members in the Legislative Council can be secured, the train heading towards democracy will be able to depart and people of Hong Kong can also ride on this train to go to the polling station to cast their votes in the Chief Executive election.

I express deep regret over the indiscriminate objection to and boycott of the discussion and consultation concerning the constitutional reform by the opposition Members. Such acts are by no means conducive to the democratization of Hong Kong's electoral systems. President, if the constitutional reform proposals are vetoed, the Government will not reactivate the "Five-step Process" of constitutional reform; people will hardly know when they can elect the Chief Executive and the Legislative Council will not be able to achieve universal suffrage in 2020.

The Chief Secretary has repeatedly mentioned in her concluding remarks and throughout the entire statement that vetoing the package will only cause the constitutional development remain at a standstill. But according to my analysis, firstly, the Government will not reactivate the "Five-step Process" of constitutional reform; secondly, there will be no timetable for universal suffrage; and thirdly, the Legislative Council will not be able to achieve universal suffrage in 2020. This is in effect a regression in democracy. May I ask the Chief Secretary why the situation is considered to be a standstill instead of a regression? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9053

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Actually, I tend to agree with Ms LEE. As a matter of fact, over the past few years, we have been conducting our work on constitutional reform in accordance with the NPCSC's Decision made in 2007, with an aim to provide Hong Kong citizens with a timetable and a roadmap for universal suffrage. However, if the proposals on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage are not passed by the Legislative Council, we really have no idea when the "Five-step Process" of constitutional reform can be initiated again. For this reason, I have stated in the statement that it will be impossible to say when we will have the chance ― let me quote the words of Ms LEE ― to ride on the train heading towards democracy and enable 5 million voters to select the Chief Executive by universal suffrage through "one person, one vote". Neither do we know when the other goal of universal suffrage ― the election of Members of the Legislative Council by universal suffrage ― will be achieved.

Technically speaking, if the constitutional reform proposals are vetoed, the upcoming Chief Executive Election in 2017 will be left with no other alternative but to follow the existing method, that is, the method for selecting the Chief Executive in 2012. Technically speaking, everything will remain unchanged and hence it can be described as a standstill.

MR TAM YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, we welcome the Chief Secretary coming to this Council today to introduce to us the proposals on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. We consider the proposals fair, reasonable and lawful; they also comply with Hong Kong's actual situation as well as the Basic Law and the 31 August Decision of the NPCSC.

In her concluding remarks, the Chief Secretary ended her statement by citing the catchphrase "2017: Make it happen!". I would like the Chief Secretary to explain the idea in designing this catchphrase "Make it happen!". Since the pan-democratic camp will veto any government motion whenever they have the power to do so, the present constitutional reform proposals will be of no exception. You have already witnessed their attitude just now. How should we interpret the catchphrase "Make it happen!"?

9054 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): During the different rounds of consultation on constitutional reform, we have used some catchphrases so that people can focus their attention on understanding the crux of the issue. In choosing the catchphrase "2017: Make it happen!" this time around, I think it can be interpreted as follows: the community at large has been eagerly looking forward to selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage through "one person, one vote" in 2017, and they are utterly reluctant to let slip the opportunity of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. As members of the public have such an aspiration, we also hope to bring this matter to fruition and attain the goal of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017.

MRS REGINA IP (in Cantonese): The "constitutional reform trio" has painstakingly done a lot of work to promote the democratic development in Hong Kong over the past 16 months. I, on behalf of the New People's Party, would first of all extend our gratitude to the "constitutional reform trio" led by the Chief Secretary as well as their staff.

My question is about the voting method of the Nominating Committee. Just now the Chief Secretary remarked that the Government has taken into consideration various methods during the consultation period, such as the "block vote system" and the "one person, two to three votes" (that is limited vote) method, but it has finally chosen the method of "voting on each person seeking nomination", that is, the approval voting method. Will the Chief Secretary explain the merits of the "voting on each person seeking nomination" method? Will persons with different political stances stand a bigger chance to obtain "members recommendation" under this voting method?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): In launching the second round consultation on constitutional reform some time ago, we used "voting on each person seeking nomination" to describe the practice to be adopted by the Nominating Committee in accordance with democratic procedures. However, for the ease of explaining to Members and the public, the method proposed by us is that each member of the Nominating Committee should be able to support all the persons seeking nomination. Referring to the example given by Mr TANG not long ago, if there are altogether 10 persons who seek nomination at the stage of "members recommendation", members of the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9055

Nominating Committee could support all the 10 persons seeking nomination to become candidates. Certainly, as regards who can get nominated at the stage of "committee nomination", it depends on whether he could obtain endorsement of more than half of all the members of the Nominating Committee. In case more than three persons seeking nomination could obtain endorsement of more than half of all the Nominating Committee members, the three persons with the highest number of members' endorsement would become candidates.

The advantage of this voting method is that the person seeking nomination will be given more opportunities to seek endorsement from members of the Nominating Committee on a fairer basis. Instead of competing with other persons seeking nomination, he is actually seeking the votes from members of the Nominating Committee with his own manifesto, charisma and integrity. Members of the Nominating Committee have sufficient votes to support all persons seeking nomination, which is a favourable condition for persons seeking nomination. This voting method will enable members of the Nominating Committee to consider each person seeking nomination more freely according to the merits of that person, so that they would not be restricted by the two or three votes that they have and would not have to spend considerable time on deciding whom they should support. All in all, this voting method should be more open and democratic.

MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): President, during my frequent visits to various districts recently, I have listened to the views of the public on the constitutional reform. Let me tell you, many people have secretly told me that despite their long-standing support for the pan-democrats over the years, they did wish to have the chance to elect the Chief Executive by universal suffrage, but the prerequisite is that the Government should state that there is still room for improvement in the future, meaning that the present proposal is not the ultimate package. I have also written to the "constitutional reform trio" some time ago, requesting them to confirm this point in black and white. President, today I am delighted to learn from paragraph 31 of the statement that the point in question has been clarified in black and white, and most importantly, it is clearly stated that the authority for initiating amendments vests with the Chief Executive.

Since supporters of the pan-democrats attach great importance to the matter, and the pan-democratic Members have to be accountable to their electors, may I ask the Chief Secretary if any pan-democratic Members have put 9056 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 forward this request to you so far? If none of them have done so, I really have to ask the Chief Secretary how she can make the pan-democrats mend their ways, so that they will not have to bear the historical responsibility for voting down Hong Kong's democratic development?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Over the past 10 months or so, during our contacts with the pan-democratic Members, be such meetings conducted in public or in private, I am afraid we have not received the message mentioned by Mr TIEN just now, that is, under what circumstances can we comply with the NPCSC's 31 August Decision and the legal requirements, as well as get the support of the pan-democratic Members. We are still entangled in certain issues. For example, they request us or the NPCSC to withdraw the 31 August Decision and re-initiate the "Five-step Process", and they even bring up the issue of civil nomination which runs contrary to the Basic Law, saying that it is an indispensable element.

Therefore, I am afraid that we have not received this message so far. Even if we have got such a message, as I said in paragraph 31 of the statement, we can only explain once again the legal basis for making amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive in respect of any subsequent improvements, and that the relevant legal procedures are already in existence. Nonetheless, today it would be difficult for us to respond to the demands of the pan-democratic Members by making a commitment or putting down everything in black and white.

I can see that Mr Ronny TONG is still sitting here, and he seems to be the only Member who had raised similar views. If we cannot get hold of such an opportunity in today's proposals on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017, will we be able to commit to making certain arrangements for the elections in the future, including the Legislative Council election in 2020 or the Chief Executive election subsequent to 2017, so as to secure support from more Members? As I have explained earlier, I am afraid it is somewhat impossible to do so.

MR IP KWOK-HIM (in Cantonese): I am very happy that the Chief Secretary comes to the Legislative Council today to announce to all Hong Kong people the specific proposals on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage. The Chief Secretary mentioned in paragraph 34 of the statement that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9057

"this is the biggest and most important step for Hong Kong's long-term constitutional development". This is a very important point. The Chief Secretary stated in paragraph 30, "If the universal suffrage proposals for the selection of the Chief Executive are vetoed, we will miss this golden opportunity. Not only will constitutional development come to a standstill, it will also be impossible to say when the 'Five-step Process' can be initiated again to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive". Some pan-democratic Members have mentioned that the "Five-step Process" can be initiated again to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive in 2022; why did the Chief Secretary clearly state that it would be impossible to say when the "Five-step Process" could be initiated again? Why can't the "Five-step Process" be initiated again to implement universal suffrage for the selection of the Chief Executive in 2022?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, in our work on constitutional reform over the past 10-odd months, I deeply felt that the constitutional development of Hong Kong was a very controversial and sensitive issue. As such, the Chief Executive in any term must have considerable political mandate to be willing to initiate discussions on constitutional reform. The current-term Government has spent a lot of energy on the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. The Task Force on Constitutional Development has been working for 18 months and there are great controversies in the community. As I have just said, the rule of law and social order are under attack, and there is still a big gap between us and the pan-democrats. How can we give confidence to the next Chief Executive that the "Five-step Process" can immediately be initiated for the selection of the Chief Executive in 2022? How can the next Chief Executive have confidence that the gap in views with the pan-democratic Members can be narrowed and the work on selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage can proceed?

Moreover, the pan-democratic Members may have to ask themselves, after vetoing this proposal, even if the next Chief Executive has the political mandate to initiate the "Five-step Process" of constitutional reform, how can they ensure that the NPCSC will make another decision that will be closer to their ideal proposal? Having considered a lot of factors, I have written in the statement that it is impossible to say when the "Five-step Process" can be initiated again in the face of instability and uncertainty.

9058 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR CHRISTOPHER CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Secretary mentioned in paragraph 30, "If we can implement the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017, the Chief Executive and the SAR Government under his/her leadership will have the political mandate required to further take forward constitutional development". She also mentioned at the end of paragraph 31, "will have to be considered by the then Chief Executive in accordance with the actual situation prevailing at that time". The Chief Secretary's remarks are rather vague, what are the meanings of "political mandate", "to further take forward" and "the actual situation"? In reply to other Members' questions, the Chief Secretary has also mentioned the constitutional, political and operational factors. According to my understanding, the constitutional and operational factors are relatively stable while the political factors are always changing; hence the major factor for consideration is the political issues. In respect of politics, what considerations will be made by the Chief Secretary to further taking forward constitutional development? Will the factors for consideration include ensuring national security by legislating on Article 23 of the Basic Law, or the opposition Members becoming politically conscious or more patriotic? Are there other political factors for consideration?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, the meaning of paragraph 30 is that the Chief Executive selected by universal suffrage naturally has greater acceptability and people's mandate, it is thus believed that he will have higher political mandate to take forward constitutional development. We can even imagine that during the election campaign, the Chief Executive candidates may need to respond to public demands for further constitutional development, such that he will have people's mandate to pursue this issue after taking office. Conversely, as mentioned in Mr CHUNG's question, if the Chief Executive will not be selected by universal suffrage in 2017 and still be elected by the 1 200-member Election Committee, and coupled with the factors mentioned by me just now in reply to Mr IP Kwok-him's question, I really do not think the next Chief Executive would have the required political mandate to immediately initiate discussions on constitutional reform again.

DR LAM TAI-FAI (in Cantonese): President, Mr Alan LEONG has repeatedly said that 27 pan-democratic Members will certainly veto the constitutional reform package, while LEUNG Chun-ying declared that he is very confident that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9059 he will get 13 to 14 votes from the pan-democrats. President, there are always some self-righteous people like TING Hai in a great era. LEUNG Chun-ying and Mr Alan LEONG know too little about the actual situation of our society. President, the Government has expressed its wish to make use of public opinion to turn the pan-democratic Members into supporting the proposal. But I hope the Chief Secretary would understand that electors in support of the Government will not basically support the pan-democratic Members. Even if more members of the public who love Hong Kong and love the country will support the Government, the pan-democratic Members will basically remain indifferent …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr LAM, please ask your question.

DR LAM TAI-FAI (in Cantonese): … and they need not pay heed, do not want to pay heed or even dare not pay heed. If the Chief Secretary intends to make use of public opinion to force the pan-democratic Members to make a U-turn, will she be a little naive or self-deceiving?

President, I understand that the bottom line and principle of the Central Government is that under the package, a Chief Executive who loves the country and loves Hong Kong will be elected, so as to ensure national security and maintain state sovereignty, unity and territorial integrity. I would like to ask the Chief Secretary to briefly and clearly explain to the general public which provisions in the constitutional reform package can fully guarantee that the Chief Executive elected will love the country and love Hong Kong. I once asked the Chief Secretary to define "love the country and love Hong Kong", but she relied that it was self-evident …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr LAM, you have spoken too long.

DR LAM TAI-FAI (in Cantonese): … how can she specifically tell the public that this package can fully guarantee the selection of a Chief Executive who loves the country and loves Hong Kong, so that the Central Authorities would not be disappointed?

9060 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, the Decision of the NPCSC on 31 August last year also covers the issues just mentioned by Dr LAM Tai-fai. The NPCSC considered at that meeting that a principle should be adhered to, that is, the Chief Executive must be a person who loves the country and loves Hong Kong. To ensure that the Chief Executive must be a person who loves the country and loves Hong Kong, the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage must provide corresponding institutional safeguards for this purpose. Such institutional safeguards are reflected in the revised Annex I of the Basic Law which is formulated on the basis of the Decision of the NPCSC on 31 August last year concerning certain core issues. In other words, the specific proposals of the authorities have already provided the institutional safeguards deemed necessary by the NPCSC.

MR WONG KWOK-KIN (in Cantonese): President, the Federation of Trade Unions thanks the Chief Secretary and other members of the "constitutional reform trio" for their hard work over a certain period of time in the past, and for submitting a specific constitutional reform package to the Legislative Council today. The Chief Secretary drew this conclusion: "2017: Make it happen!" We also want to make it happen. At the same time, we hope that this is not only an aspiration of the Chief Secretary, but that she is confident in the passage of the constitutional reform package. The Chief Secretary publicly declared that they are going to carry out publicity activities in various districts to gain public support, and we also know that the pan-democrats will certainly carry out anti-publicity activities to gain popular support as well. While both parties are striving for public opinion, we are afraid that our society may be torn apart. Apart from carrying out publicity activities in various districts ― the Government is obliged to gain public support ― may I ask whether the Government would consider giving some leeway on issues not related to principles, so that those pan-democratic Members who strive for universal suffrage for the sake of Hong Kong people but not for their own political interests can make a U-turn, thereby universal suffrage can be implemented?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, as I said earlier, the package of proposals for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage submitted to the Legislative Council today is constitutional, lawful, fair and reasonable, and we believe that the package does not allow any concession. We must look forward and consider how this practical package of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9061 proposals for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage can be passed, so as to enable all eligible voters in the territory to select the Chief Executive by "one person, one vote" in 2017. I think we should focus our energy on this specific package in the next few months.

MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Secretary puts forward a total of nine recommendations in her statement today. Theoretically, these recommendations would only be passed if two thirds of Members would vote in support. However, on the nomination procedure of the Nominating Committee (that is, the so-called the stage of "committee nomination"), it is stated in paragraph 19 of the statement that four different voting procedures have been put forward in the Consultation Document, namely, "one person, three votes", "one person, two to three votes", "one person, maximum three votes", and "voting on each person seeking nominations". But it is stated in paragraph 20 that each member should support at least two persons seeking nomination, which is basically not one of the four options mentioned in the Consultation Document. Thus, there is the fifth method.

President, why do I raise this point? It seems that the recommendations are presented in great detail but the most critical stage of "committee nomination" will only be handled at the stage of amending the local legislation in the future. Based on the five voting methods mentioned above, it is absolutely possible that the number of candidates elected by "one person, one vote" will be greater than those elected by "one person, three votes". In that case, have the authorities clearly considered what should be done? Should this be handled at the stage of amending the local legislation in the future as this would be easier and more flexible? Or should the authorities evade this issue?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I am really sorry that Members may not have a copy of the Consultation Report and Proposals. We are going to submit a government motion to the Legislative Council for voting, together with the proposed amendments to Annex I of the Basic Law. The amendments to Annex I include the point just made by Mr Paul TSE about how the Nominating Committee will nominate two to three candidates for the office of the Chief Executive; the matter will not be handled at the stage of amending the local legislation.

9062 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): President, I recently asked some pan-democrats if they supported the constitutional reform, they told me that they would certainly support it. I then asked them for the reason, and they said that they would "pocket it first", and then continue to protest. I think we should understand that even if the constitutional reform package is passed, it does not mean all is at peace. Nevertheless, I am optimistic about the constitutional reform, and I believe the moderate pan-democratic Members are wise enough to understand that the passage of the constitutional reform package will do them more good than harm. But the crux of the problem is how to convince the moderate pan-democratic Members to make a U-turn and why they should make a U-turn. I believe some pan-democratic Members would ultimately make a U-turn and I hope that the Chief Secretary would seriously consider the reasons for driving them to make a U-turn. As I have repeatedly mentioned, if people at the State level or some high-ranking people could declare that this is only a transitional package but not a permanent one, I believe such a pledge or definite statement is the most important turning point in the passage of the constitutional reform package. I really hope that the Chief Secretary would make efforts to get this done.

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, on the amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive in the future, I think the most positive statement is set out in paragraph 31 of the statement. We have explicitly specified the legal basis and procedures for initiating further amendments to the method for selecting the Chief Executive. I think this paragraph is explicit enough and I think we have already made it clear that the passage of this package will enable the system for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage to be rooted in our political system, and that any amendments in the future can be made according to such legal basis and legal procedures.

MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Cantonese): President, the Legislative Council meetings are broadcast live and many industry players are watching. On behalf of the industry, I would like to thank the "constitutional reform trio" led by the Chief Secretary and various Policy Bureaux for their hard work during this period. When the Chief Secretary answered a question just now, she said she would make "unreserved efforts" in her work in the future. In addition to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9063 making "unreserved efforts" by them, will the Chief Secretary consider asking various sectors of the community to make "unreserved efforts" in the publicity work on the constitutional reform, so as to strive for strong public support?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr WONG for proposing to mobilize various sectors of the community to work together to get public support, and we are happy to see that happen. We will contact various sectors of the community and we will work together in the coming two months. We will also actively participate in the work or publicity activities promoting constitutional development.

MISS CHAN YUEN-HAN (in Cantonese): President, I would like to ask the Chief Secretary to take good care of herself. After Mr TAM Yiu-chung and Mr WONG Kwok-kin, I am the third Member to ask this question.

The Chief Secretary's concluding remark is "2017: Make it happen!". This remark has reminded me of many things. The Chief Secretary asks us to "make it happen" as this is the result desired by the public. In fact, most people want to vote in the Chief Executive election. This is a fact. However, I am a bit indulged in reveries about this remark and the comments made by the Chief Secretary and the Chief Executive earlier. The Chief Secretary recently said that she was not optimistic, but the Chief Executive said that he was optimistic that he might get 13 to 14 votes from the pan-democrats. I have asked the Chief Executive how he could get these votes. The Chief Secretary is now saying "make it happen".

I would like to ask the Chief Secretary why she is now saying "make it happen" though she was not optimistic earlier, and why is the Chief Executive so optimistic? Are the authorities up to something? I think Mr Ronny TONG has courageously taken this step. I am not putting him on the spot but he is really worthy of my respect.

May I ask the Chief Secretary to tell us what she will do next as her concluding remark is "2017: Make it happen!".

9064 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, as I already explained in response to Mr TAM Yiu-chung's question, we choose "Make it happen!" as our slogan this time around purely because we want to reflect the public's aspiration of selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. They really do not want to miss this golden opportunity, and everybody wants to "make it happen", even though it does not mean that it is happening now.

As for our work in the future, I do not want to say that I am "optimistic", "pessimistic" or "cautiously optimistic". It is most important for us to gain public support and the support of a majority of Legislative Council Members. I hope that, a majority of Legislative Council Members (two thirds of them) would vote for the constitutional reform package two or three months later, in order to take a big step forward in the democratic process.

DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, many Hong Kong people have much expectation of the constitutional reform package and they hope to "make it happen" as the Chief Secretary has said. That is because we all agree that it is desirable for our constitutional reform to move forward in a gradual and orderly manner. However, I really feel very sad about the behaviours of the opposition Members. They even voiced their opposition before the Chief Secretary read the statement. Earlier, they raised opposition before the Decision of the NPCSC on 31 August was announced. We feel very sad about that.

For Hong Kong people, it does not matter whether the universal suffrage is genuine or fake, what matters most is that universal suffrage is desirable because anything that will really benefit Hong Kong will be acceptable by the public …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHIANG, please ask your question.

DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Cantonese): I know that the Chief Secretary will visit a district this afternoon to publicize the constitutional reform package, and I also know that the Chief Secretary is very confident; as she just said "2017: Make it happen!" Members of the public know that the Chief Secretary is a good fighter but I wonder if she could tell all Hong Kong people that she is not only a good fighter, but is also very confident that she can "make it happen"?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9065

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I have confidence in the specific package of proposals we submitted today; and I also have confidence in the earnest expectation of the public in selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage in 2017. I also hope that the pan-democratic Members would realize that the passage of this package is definitely better than a standstill; this is also a major breakthrough that they have been striving for universal suffrage throughout the years. For this reason, we will continue to work hard in the days to come and strive for the support of Legislative Council Members.

(Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung stood up)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, what is your point?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I suspect that a quorum is not present.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(While the summoning bell was ringing, Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung kept talking in his seat)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, if you make casual remarks again, I will drive you out of the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Miss Alice MAK, please ask your question.

MISS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): I thank Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung for summoning so many Members back to listen to my question. Chief Secretary, we are grateful that the "constitutional reform trio" have strived for public support in the past and will continue to do so in the future, as stated just now. I 9066 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 would like to ask, apart from the trio, if the accountability officials and the whole political team, including the Director of Bureaux and Under Secretaries with various degrees of popularity, will work together in the future to strive for the support of Hong Kong people, so as to enable us to select the Chief Executive by "one person, one vote"?

CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): In short, we will do so. In fact, there are media reports that we will hold a large scale publicity activity this Saturday, and the whole accountability team will take part. I am also pleased to tell Members that even the non-official members of the Executive Council have also expressed their willingness to participate in this publicity activity to promote the method for selecting the Chief Executive by universal suffrage.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to ask questions?

(No Member indicated a wish to ask question)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If not, the question and answer session on the Chief Secretary for Administration's statement ends. We now proceed to the next item.

BILLS

First Reading of Bills

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Bill: First Reading.

ELECTORAL LEGISLATION (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 2015

CLERK (in Cantonese): Electoral Legislation (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill 2015.

Bill read the First time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9067

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please remove objects displayed on the bench that are irrelevant to the business we are dealing with, and will staff members please assist with the removal of objects displayed on the bench of Members who are not present.

Second Reading of Bills

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Bill: Second Reading.

ELECTORAL LEGISLATION (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL 2015

SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I move the Second Reading of the Electoral Legislation (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill 2015.

We propose to make necessary technical amendments regarding the detailed arrangements for the 2016 Legislative Council election through the Bill. The amendments include technical amendments concerning the electorate of the functional constituencies (FCs), the name of an FC and counting procedures.

Regarding the electorate of the FCs, in keeping with the established practice, and in consultation with relevant bureaux/departments, we have reviewed the delineation of the electorate of all the FCs under the Legislative Council Ordinance (Cap. 542). On the basis of the review, we propose to make necessary technical amendments, whilst maintaining the existing delineation of the FCs concerned intact. The proposed amendments can be classified into four categories, including:

(i) to update the names of the bodies which have had their names changed;

(ii) to remove bodies which have ceased operation;

(iii) to improve the formulation of the definition of some electors; and

(iv) to add new electors to update the prevailing situation of the FCs concerned. 9068 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Besides, having considered the comments at the Panel on Constitutional Affairs of the Legislative Council, we propose to change the name of the "architectural, surveying and planning FC" to the "architectural, surveying, planning and landscape FC". Including "landscape" in the name would more comprehensively reflect the composition of the FC which includes architects, surveyors, planners and landscape architects. This is a purely technical amendment that will not affect the existing definition of the concerned FC's electorate.

For the above technical amendments, we propose that corresponding amendments should be made to the Schedule to the Chief Executive Election Ordinance (Cap. 569) to reflect the corresponding changes to the name and electorate of, and the registration of voters for, the relevant Election Committee subsectors.

Regarding other technical amendments, they are related to two matters. First, in the light of the experience gained from previous elections, we propose to take the opportunity to make clear the counting procedures for the District Council (second) FC election. In addition, we propose to rectify two textual errors.

President, I hope that Members will support the Bill so that the changes could take effect as early as possible for the 2015-2016 voter registration cycle. Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the Electoral Legislation (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill 2015 be read the Second time.

In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the debate is now adjourned and the Bill is referred to the House Committee.

Resumption of Second Reading Debate on Bills

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): We now resume the Second Reading debate on the Appropriation Bill 2015. The public officers concerned will speak, after which the Financial Secretary will reply.

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APPROPRIATION BILL 2015

Resumption of debate on Second Reading which was moved on 25 February 2015

SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, I wish to thank Members for giving many valuable views on education during the debate on the Second Reading of the Appropriation Bill 2015.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MR ANDREW LEUNG, took the Chair)

The Government spares no effort in investing in education to nurture people of diversified talents, with a view to strengthening the competitiveness of Hong Kong for taking opportunities and challenges. The estimated total expenditure on education for 2015-2016 amounts to $79.3 billion, which is $5.2 billion or 7% higher than the 2014-2015 revised estimate. Of this total, 90% or $71.4 billion is recurrent expenditure, accounting for more than one fifths of the total recurrent government expenditure. This takes up the largest share among all policy areas, and represents an increase of $3.2 billion over the 2014-2015 revised estimate of recurrent expenditure.

The proportion of expenditure on education by the Government of Hong Kong is no second to most of the developed economies. Take for example the member countries of the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the expenditure on education accounts to an average of merely 13% of the overall government expenditure, which is lower than 16.7% of Hong Kong, and there is a decreasing trend. Comparatively, the resources allocated to each student by the SAR Government keep increasing annually. Since the inauguration of the current-term Government, recurrent expenditure on education has increased from $60.4 billion in 2012-2013 to $71.4 billion in 2015-2016, representing a cumulative increase of 18%. During this period of time, the student unit cost of aided primary schools has increased by about 20% from $44,000 per student per annum in 2012-2013 to $53,000 per student per annum in 2015-2016. The corresponding figure for aided secondary schools has increased by about 35% from $49,000 to $66,000.

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Some Honourable Members mentioned that the expenditure on education in Hong Kong accounts for 3% to 4% of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which is lower than the average of 6% in OECD countries. Here, we have to understand that the HKSAR Government has always adhered to the principle of low taxation, by which government revenue as a percentage of nominal GDP rarely exceeded 20% in the past. Therefore, public expenditure must be kept at a similar level, while the total expenditures of OECD countries generally account for 40% or even 50% of their GDP. Therefore, if one accuses the Hong Kong Government of not attaching sufficient importance to education purely on the ground of the ratios of education expenditure to GDP, his comment is incomprehensive and unfair.

More than 10 initiatives had been introduced in the Policy Address of last year. This year, the Policy Address also announced several new measures on education, including progressively increasing the ratio of graduate teacher posts in public sector primary schools, strengthening the Business-School Partnership Programme, further strengthening the Mainland exchange programmes for primary and secondary students as well as the Sister School Scheme, and so forth. Through the 2015-2016 Budget, we will take forward the new measures announced in this year's Policy Address, and continue with the implementation of the measures and programmes set out in the Policy Address of last year. At a time when there is change in the demographic structure of Hong Kong with a declining student population and a growing elderly population, it is even more important for us to enhance the quality of our population, in particular to nurture the new generation of society to meet the new challenges ahead.

One of the major new investment items will be the policy on free kindergarten education. The Committee on Free Kindergarten Education (the Committee) set up by the Government has been actively communicating and conducting in-depth studies with the sector on various issues regarding kindergarten education which include, among others, funding mode, qualification and salary framework, and so on. In terms of short-term measures, the Government has adopted the recommendation of the Committee to lift up the voucher subsidy to the new level at $22,510 by increasing $2,500 in the 2014-2015 school year, with another $2,500 to be increased in the 2015-2016 school year, making an aggregated increase of 29%. The Government has also increased its recurrent expenditure on kindergarten education from $2.8 billion in 2012-2013 to the estimate of $4.1 billion this year, representing an increase of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9071

46%. The Committee has reached its final stage of work, with its report expected to be submitted in the middle of this year for proposing practical recommendations to the Education Bureau.

Apart from kindergarten education, some Honourable Members also expressed concern about the number of subsidized first-degree places. The current approved student number target for first-year-first-degree programmes funded by the University Grants Committee is 15 000, while the number of senior-year articulation places per year is 4 000. Therefore, the number of publicly-funded undergraduate places is 19 000. In 2014-2015, students enrolled in publicly-funded undergraduate programmes accounted for 24.3% of school-age students. Together with more than 12 500 students admitted to the self-financing first-year and senior-year top-up undergraduate programmes, 46.1% of school-age students are enrolled in undergraduate programmes. If sub-degree programmes are also taken into account, nearly 70% of young people are attending post-secondary programmes. Affected by demographic change, the number of secondary school graduates will continue to drop from 62 000 in 2014 to 42 700 in 2022. If the percentage of Hong Kong Diploma of Secondary Education candidates who meet the minimum university admission requirement of "3322" at that time is similar to the current percentage, there will be more first-year-first-degree places than the number of students who meet the minimum university admission requirement. We must thus attach importance to both the quality and quantity of university education and prudently plan for the future development of higher education, in order to ensure that the community has confidence in university graduates. In addition, the Government will continue to take forward the initiatives announced in the Chief Executive's Policy Address for supporting Hong Kong students with various subsidy schemes to pursue undergraduate studies locally, on the Mainland or abroad. A total of 2 120 additional subsidized places will be provided for paving a broader pathway for their further studies.

Besides, the Chief Executive has emphasized the importance of vocational education in the Policy Address of last year. While facilitating better integration of education and employment for supporting Hong Kong in its development, vocational education also helps youngsters to bring their strengths into play. Apart from implementing various new measures to strengthen vocational education, we have set up the Task Force on Promotion of Vocational Education in June last year. The Task Force will submit its report to the Education Bureau 9072 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 in the middle of this year to put forward strategies and concrete recommendations for raising public awareness and recognition towards vocational education. The Government will examine and consider the report by then.

Deputy President, the Government is definitely determined to invest in education. We will continue to take forward various measures conducive to the development of schools, teachers and students, and to liaise and co-operate closely with the education sector as well as people from all walks of life, with a view to enhancing the quality of education in Hong Kong.

With these remarks, I urge Members for their expeditious passage of the Appropriation Bill 2015.

Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, please do a headcount in accordance with Rule 17(2) under the Rules of Procedure on quorum.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, various Members have, in their speeches during the debate, provided many insightful views on areas such as poverty alleviation, social welfare, labour and manpower development. Now I would like to make some replies mainly in response to such areas.

In 2015-2016, recurrent spending on social welfare will reach $59.7 billion, accounting for 18.4% of the total recurrent government expenditure, second only to education, and representing an increase of 9.5% over the previous year. This reflects the importance the Government attaches to the disadvantaged and its commitment to them.

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Members are all concerned about the poverty problem. According to the latest figures for 2013, the overall poor population of Hong Kong dropped to 970 000, below 1 million for the first time, and the poverty rate fell to a five-year low of 14.5%. The Government will continue to make great efforts to proceed with poverty alleviation work through the Commission on Poverty in a comprehensive manner.

The Labour and Welfare Bureau is preparing in full speed for the implementation of the Low-income Working Family Allowance, so as to encourage self-reliance through employment, and specifically take care of children from low-income families. The allowance is estimated to cost $3 billion per year. Some 200 000 low-income working families not receiving Comprehensive Social Security Assistance will benefit, and 710 000 grass-roots persons will be covered. The scheme is expected to be launched in the second quarter of next year.

The incumbent Government is committed to tackling the poverty problem, and it is formulating comprehensive planning for a rapidly ageing society. That said, we will abide by the principle of managing public finances prudently and focus public resources on assisting needy persons.

Retirement protection is an important social issue that is of great concern to Members. The Commission on Poverty is devising the framework and setting out the details for a public consultation scheduled to be commenced in the fourth quarter of this year. The Government expects society to conduct rational and pragmatic discussions for the purpose of reaching a consensus. To demonstrate the determination and commitment of the Government, we have earmarked $50 billion to provide for future needs.

In the face of population ageing, the resources committed by the Government to elderly care services have been increasing continuously. The recurrent expenditure on elderly care services in 2015-2016 is approximately $6.8 billion, representing an increase of 11.2% over the previous year.

We will implement the policy of supporting "ageing in the community as the core, institutional care as back-up", and cater for the various needs of elderly persons through a multi-pronged approach. From March to June this year, we rolled out a total of 1 666 Enhanced Home and Community Care Services places and strengthened service contents. With a new mentality, we are vigorously and 9074 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 actively proceeding with the introduction of the Special Scheme on Privately Owned Sites for Welfare Users. If all the 60 programmes can be implemented, there will be a significant increase of about 7 000 residential care places and 2 000 day care places for the elderly. The Elderly Commission is pressing ahead with the formulation of the Elderly Services Programme Plan for the long-term planning for elderly services and intends to submit a report to the Government in the middle of next year. We will also explore the feasibility of introducing vouchers for residential care services for the elderly.

As the Budget has proposed the provision of an extra two months' payments to recipients of Comprehensive Social Security Assistance, Old Age Allowance, Old Age Living Allowance and Disability Allowance, I earnestly hope that the Legislative Council can expeditiously pass the funding applications, so that 1 180 000 grass-roots people, including 800 000 elderly persons, can benefit as early as possible.

Regarding rehabilitation services, the Government will continue to allocate more resources to assist persons with disabilities and perfect services. In 2015-2016, the overall recurrent expenditure for rehabilitation services will increase to nearly $5.6 billion, representing an increase of almost 10% over the previous year. We will also explore the introduction of new measures to benefit pre-school children with special needs, people with autism and ex-mentally ill patients. It is expected that an additional 8 000 places for rehabilitation services will be provided under the Special Scheme on Privately Owned Sites for Welfare Uses.

Regarding human resources, we must focus on developing and nurturing talents, and unleash the potential of our labour force, so that the population of Hong Kong will continuously support and drive its socio-economic development. We will engender a socially inclusive and cohesive society that allows individuals to realize their potential.

In the face of the dual challenges of an ageing population and a shrinking labour force, one of our major tasks is to encourage more women and elderly persons to join the labour market.

The Government will enhance child care services to help women balance their family and work commitments. Proposed measures include increasing by phases from 2015-2016 onwards the total number of places of Extended Hours LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9075

Service at aided child care centres and kindergarten-cum child care centres in districts with high demand, from the existing 1 200 places or so to some 6 200 places.

The Government attaches great importance to safeguarding the statutory rights and interests of employees. We will improve employee protection at a pace commensurate with our socio-economic development, but we must strike a proper balance between the affordability of employers and the interests of employees.

The Standard Working Hours Committee is working at full speed for the identification of the way forward for the policy on working hours of Hong Kong, and it plans to submit a report to the Government in the first quarter of next year.

In upholding the principle of according priority to local workers in employment and stepping up training, the Government will continue to import manpower that Hong Kong truly lacks and needs on an appropriate, limited and targeted basis, so as to sustain our socio-economic development and maintain the long-term competitiveness of Hong Kong. In order to cater for the keen demand of the construction industry for skilled workers, the Government is formulating enhancement measures for importing skilled workers for public works projects based on the characteristics of the construction industry, and it is closely negotiating with the construction industry and the labour sector regarding the detailed arrangement.

All in all, the incumbent Government attaches a great deal of importance to poverty alleviation, welfare, labour and manpower development, and it continues to improve and step up services in response to the needs arising from social and demographic changes. At the same time, it will strive to foster tripartite cross-sectoral collaboration involving the community, the business sector and the Government, so as to build a caring and inclusive community.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I urge Members to support the Appropriation Bill 2015. Thank you.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Since the President has just ordered the removal of displays that are irrelevant to this debate session, will staff members please assist with the removal of displays on the table of Mr LEE Cheuk-yan.

9076 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Cantonese): Deputy President, healthcare is closely related to people's lives, and is also a matter of concern to the community at large. I will now respond to the salient points of the opinions raised by Members in their speeches during the debate.

The Government's annual recurrent expenditure on healthcare continues to grow. For 2015-2016, the estimated total expenditure on healthcare amounts to $70.6 billion, which is $13.1 billion higher than the 2014-2015 revised estimate, and the recurrent expenditure on healthcare is estimated at $54.5 billion, taking up 16.8% of government recurrent expenditure. Moreover, the Government's financial provision to the Hospital Authority (HA) this year will be $49.9 billion, representing an increase of over 40% compared to five years ago.

This year, the HA will increase a total of 250 hospital beds. In the long-term, the Government will make continuous efforts to deploy more resources for expanding our public healthcare infrastructure, building new hospitals and improving existing hospital facilities. We are seeking funding approval of the Legislative Council for the expansion of the Hong Kong Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service Headquarters and the refurbishment of Hong Kong Buddhist Hospital, and will seek its funding approval for the commencement of the main works for phase 1 of the expansion of United Christian Hospital.

As regards manpower, the Government and the HA also seek to ensure sufficient manpower to provide various services through a number of measures, including increasing student places for healthcare disciplines, making good use of overseas talent, strengthening recruitment, increasing on-the-job training opportunities, and improving conditions of service to retain talent.

On another front, the current-term Government attaches great importance to the development of Chinese medicine. In 2013, we set up the Chinese Medicine Development Committee to focus on the study of such areas as personnel training, Chinese medicine services development, and so on. Further to the Government's acceptance of the Committee's recommendations on the development of a Chinese medicine hospital, the development of integrated Chinese-Western medicine and the Hong Kong Chinese Materia Medica Standards project in early 2014, the 2015 Policy Address announced that the Government would set up a testing centre for Chinese medicines to be managed by the Department of Health. The testing centre will specialize in the testing of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9077 and scientific research on Chinese medicines with a view to setting reference standards on safety, quality and testing methods of Chinese medicines, so as to pave the way for the internationalization of Hong Kong's Chinese medicine industry.

As to the formulation of the Voluntary Health Insurance Scheme, the public consultation ended on 16 April this year, and the Food and Health Bureau has received a total of 580 submissions. Overall, the public generally support our proposal to strengthen the regulation of private health insurance. Various sectors of the community and stakeholders have made specific comments on the proposed details, including the contents of the 12 Minimum Requirements, the premium levels, the capacity of the private healthcare sector, the supply of healthcare manpower, and so on. We will carefully study and consider the views received, and will continue discussing the details of the Scheme with different sectors of the community on the basis of providing reasonable and basic protection for consumers, thereby further refining our proposals.

We will set out in a consultation report the consultation results and the way forward. With the support of the community, we plan to carry out the relevant legislative work to implement the Voluntary Health Insurance Scheme.

The Government has always attached great importance to ensuring food safety. In the coming year, the Government will continue to enhance food safety in Hong Kong through a multi-pronged approach.

The Centre for Food Safety (CFS) under the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department conducted tests on a total of about 64 100 food samples in 2014, that is, about nine samples per 1 000 persons of the population of Hong Kong. This is a relatively high testing rate when compared with other overseas economies.

As a result of the Taiwan substandard lard incident in September 2014, the Hong Kong public expressed deep concern about the safety of edible oil. In this connection, the Food and Health Bureau and the Environment Bureau have decided to step up regulation of the safety of edible oil and the recycling of waste cooking oil in Hong Kong, so as to safeguard food safety and Hong Kong's reputation. The Government is formulating the legislative framework, with the aim of consulting the public on the legislative proposals in the first half of 2015.

9078 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Following the Fukushima nuclear power plant incident in Japan in 2011, the CFS has enhanced radiation testing on food imported from Japan at import, wholesale and retail levels to ensure food safety. In respect of food imported from Japan by sea, the CFS will contact the importers for testing arrangements according to the information in the documents for import customs clearance.

Regarding vegetables supplied to Hong Kong, the Government and the Mainland authorities have established administrative arrangements under which vegetables supplied to Hong Kong must come from registered vegetable farms and production and processing establishments under the supervision of the relevant Entry-Exit Inspection and Quarantine Bureau. Every year, officers of the CFS inspect registered farms on the Mainland to ensure that the agricultural products supplied to Hong Kong are wholesome and safe at source. Apart from control at source, the CFS will monitor imported vegetables at Man Kam To by checking the seals of the vegetable vehicles, and will take vegetable samples for testing of pesticide residues.

As for the public consultation on a new agricultural policy, we have received more than 1 100 submissions over the past three months. On the whole, the public and the industry generally support the sustainable development of agriculture, and are inclined to support the development directions proposed by the Government in the consultation document, including establishing an Agricultural Park, establishing a Sustainable Agricultural Development Fund, strengthening product marketing and brand building, and so on. The Government will formulate a new agricultural policy and its implementation plan after comprehensively considering the views received during the consultation, and will announce the relevant details in due course.

Besides, some Members have expressed concern about the safeguarding of animal welfare. In recent years, the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department has stepped up the promotion of animal welfare through a number of measures, including strengthening the promotion of responsible pet ownership; launching the Trap-Neuter-Return trial programme; introducing and pursuing legislative amendment proposals to better regulate pet trading and breeding of dogs for sale; improving the handling of reports and complaints on cruelty to animals through an inter-departmental working group, and so on.

In addition, we are grateful to Members for their views on our hawker policy. The Food and Health Bureau is committed to formulating a hawker policy that accommodates the opinions of different stakeholders, thereby allowing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9079 the licensed hawking business to thrive on the one hand, while ensuring food safety and environmental hygiene on the other hand. The specific proposals for developing the hawker trade should be district-led and bottom-up, and have the support of the local community. We will work with the relevant District Councils to follow up such proposals and consider their feasibility.

With regard to public markets, the Government has earlier briefed the relevant subcommittee of the Legislative Council on the major findings of the consultancy study, including views on the functions and positioning of public markets, ways to improve the operating environment as well as the management mode, and so on. The Government will further study the improvement options put forward by the consultant. In formulating specific proposals for individual markets, we will consult the relevant Market Management Consultative Committees where appropriate, and will take into account factors such as tenants' views and any technical and operational constraints.

In the middle of this year, the Government will discuss its response to the report of the consultancy study and the concrete measures to improve the operating environment of individual markets with the relevant subcommittee of the Legislative Council.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I hope that Members will pass the Appropriation Bill. Thank you.

SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Members for their views and I will respond on matters concerning tourism first.

We are very grateful to the support given by the Central Government and the local government concerned. On 13 April, the Central Government announced that in response to the request of the SAR Government, the policy on multiple-entry endorsements for residents with Shenzhen household registration would be adjusted and the new measure of granting endorsements with a one-trip-per-week cap would start to take effect on the same day. The SAR Government believes that the implementation of the new policy will deal a direct blow on parallel trading activities by persons visiting Hong Kong many times a week or even many times a day; enhance the efficacy of the SAR Government in 9080 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 combatting parallel trading activities, particularly those of Mainland professional parallel traders; and reduce the impact of the continuous growth in visitor arrivals on certain districts in Hong Kong.

As a hospitable city, Hong Kong will continue to welcome tourists, including those from the Mainland. The Hong Kong Tourism Board (HKTB) will use the additional provision of $80 million allocated by the Government for this financial year to run promotions with the trades in two phases to stimulate spending. The HKTB will fully support the campaign called "HAPPY@hongkong Super JETSO" to be rolled out on 27 April, with a view to creating a city-wide atmosphere of enjoying spending offers. The HKTB will continue to hold its annual summer promotion "Hong Kong Summer Fun" from June to August this year to attract more overnight visitors to Hong Kong.

Some Members mentioned the proposal of constructing a shopping centre near the Lok Ma Chau Boundary Control Point. Application for the project must, however, follow the established procedures as required under the planning, lands and other relevant legislation and as prescribed by the Government. In this connection, the Government has established an inter-departmental working group. The Tourism Commission is responsible for co-ordinating the relevant Policy Bureaux and government departments and advising the project proponent on the information to be submitted and the relevant statutory procedures on planning, lands, public works and so on in relation to its application.

To enhance the attractiveness of Hong Kong's scenic spots and to increase our capacity to receive tourists, the Hong Kong Disneyland and the Ocean Park are building new hotels and developing new areas and facilities. At the same time, the Government is discussing with the Walt Disney Company on the Phase 2 development of the Hong Kong Disneyland Resort.

Members are interested in the proposal of introducing Food Trucks in Hong Kong. We are joining hands with the relevant government departments in collecting information of and taking reference from the systems and experiences in overseas countries, with a view to formulating a proposal which suits the actual circumstances of Hong Kong.

Members are also concerned about free television programme services. The Chief Executive in Council determined on 1 April not to renew the existing domestic free television programme service licence of Asia Television Limited LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9081

(ATV). In compliance with the legal requirement that a 12-month notice period has to be given to ATV, ATV can continue to broadcast free television programmes until 1 April next year. The determination not to renew the licence this time may reduce the choices of free television programmes for the public during the transitional period. In particular, 480 000 households which have not switched to digital terrestrial television broadcasting services may only have two analogue television channels to choose from for some time. Therefore, the Government is studying with Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) on the possibility for RTHK to provide two television channels in analogue format to broadcast suitable programmes of its existing digital television channels. Broadcasting services in analogue format provided by RTHK as a public broadcaster cannot completely replace the free television services provided by a private broadcaster and as such, the proposal is only an expedient arrangement before the switch-off of analogue television broadcasting. The arrangement seeks to provide more choices to households which have not switched to digital terrestrial television services during the transitional period.

Regarding HK Television Entertainment Company Limited, which has just been formally granted a domestic free television programme service licence, the Government expects it to launch its services as soon as possible, so that more free television programme options can gradually be offered to households which have switched to digital terrestrial television broadcasting services. The company has promised to provide an integrated Cantonese channel and an integrated English channel within 12 months and 24 months respectively after obtaining the licence. The Government will closely monitor the progress in this respect.

The inter-departmental task force which has just been set up will continue to co-ordinate the implementation of any necessary contingency measures during the transitional period to minimize any adverse impact that might arise from the determination of not renewing ATV's licence.

Apart from free television services, Members have also expressed their views on how the Government can further promote creative industries, particularly the film industry. We will inject $200 million into the Film Development Fund to take forward the four-pronged strategy, namely, encouraging more local film production, nurturing production talent, building up audiences, and showcasing and promoting the brand of "Hong Kong Films". We will continue with our work in these four directions.

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Technology start-ups are an important component in the ecology of technological development. The Government endeavours to create a better environment for these start-ups to help them translate new ideas into business opportunities. At present, the Government mainly provides systematic support through the Cyberport and the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation, including running incubation programmes to assist start-ups to overcome the challenges at the start of their businesses. In addition, the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer launched the dedicated interactive portal iStartup@HK earlier. Apart from providing a comprehensive range of information on starting businesses, the portal also allows startups to upload their company profiles and promotional videos of their products to reach out to potential investors.

On the innovation and technology front, the Government completed a comprehensive review of the Innovation and Technology Fund which has been in operation for some 15 years at the end of 2014 and submitted the report to the Panel on Commerce and Industry. The Panel acknowledged the role of the Fund in promoting the development of innovation and technology in Hong Kong.

We are also very grateful to the Finance Committee for approving the proposal of injecting $5 billion to the Innovation and Technology Fund and subsuming the Research and Development Cash Rebate Scheme under the Fund in late February this year.

We will put the resources into good use. For example, we will soon set up the new Enterprise Support Scheme to replace the Small Entrepreneur Research Assistance Programme. The new Scheme will support enterprises in their research and development regardless of their size. The funding ceiling for each approved project has been increased from $6 million to $10 million and there is no requirement for recoupment of Government's contribution.

Furthermore, the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation will launch a new corporate venture fund for co-investment to meet the funding needs of technology start-ups. This fund will be introduced on a pilot basis and for the time being, application for the fund will only be open to tenants of the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks and start-ups which are participating in or have completed the technology incubation programmes. However, we hope that the initiative will encourage more investment from angel investors and investment funds to invest in technology companies in Hong Kong. When the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9083 operation of the fund has matured, we will make further enhancements, including relaxing the eligibility of application and increasing the level of financial support, and so on.

The Advisory Committee on Innovation and Technology, chaired by the Advisor to the Chief Executive on Innovation and Technology, held its first meeting on 15 April. The Advisory Committee will meet regularly and advise the Government on the strategic and developmental enhancements of innovation and technology in Hong Kong.

Finally, I would point out that innovation and technology is a key economic driving force that can also support the development of other industries. The current-term Government has proposed to set up the new Innovation and Technology Bureau on two occasions so that it could co-ordinate and implement the relevant policies more effectively. Unfortunately, due to the filibusters staged by some Members, the new Bureau could not be established in the last financial year. However, the Government submitted two resolutions relating to the establishment of the Innovation and Technology Bureau to the Legislative Council last month and the Subcommittee concerned has also completed its deliberation. I am prepared to move the two resolutions relating to the transfer of authority at a meeting of the Legislative Council later. In addition, the relevant funding and establishment proposals will be submitted to the Finance Committee again after the passage of the Appropriation Bill 2015. I hope that Members will support the early passage of the Bill so that the Innovation and Technology Bureau can be established as soon as possible.

Thank you, Deputy President.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, although it is lunch time now, there are really too few Members in the Chamber. Thus, I hope you would invoke Rule 17(2) and do a headcount.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

9084 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I would like to thank Members for raising various views on the development of the financial services industry during the Budget debate. I am delighted to hear that Members acknowledge the importance of the work in this area. Now I wish to give my response concerning several important aspects.

A number of Members are concerned about how the Government will maintain Hong Kong's competitiveness as an international financial centre, so as to attract foreign investment.

We are aware that an increasing number of multinational enterprises have established their regional corporate treasury centres in Asia. As a major hub for financial services, trading and logistics, Hong Kong has the advantages to capitalize on the opportunities brought about by this trend. The Financial Secretary announced in the Budget that the Government would encourage multinational enterprises to establish corporate treasury centres in Hong Kong to perform treasury services for their group companies. Many multinational enterprises establish corporate treasury centres in the same place as their regional headquarters, it is hoped that the above policy will be able to further promote the development of headquarters economy in Hong Kong.

We shall amend the Inland Revenue Ordinance to allow, under specified conditions, interest deductions under profits tax for corporate treasury centres and reducing profits tax for specified treasury activities by 50%. The Government plans to consult the industry on the legislative proposals later this year, with a view to introducing the bill into the Legislative Council in the next legislative session.

With regard to asset management, Hong Kong enjoys a leading position in the Asian region with the aggregate assets managed by Hong Kong exceeding $16 trillion. Hong Kong enjoys great competitive edges and potentials to attract more funds of various types to base in Hong Kong, and develop into a full-fledged fund service centre.

To this end, we are formulating detailed legislative proposals to introduce an open-ended fund company structure to enrich our legal framework, in addition to the one currently applicable to trust funds, with an aim to attract more funds to domicile in Hong Kong and thus establish a diversified platform for such funds.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9085

Furthermore, with a view to attracting more private equity funds to expand their business in Hong Kong, we introduced a bill into the Legislative Council on 25 March to extend the profits tax exemption for offshore funds to private equity funds. I hope the bill will be passed as soon as possible.

Hong Kong shall strive for the early implementation of the arrangement for mutual recognition of funds, which will further promote the mutual access between the capital markets of the Mainland and Hong Kong, and contribute to raising Hong Kong's competitiveness in international asset management.

The Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect has been operating smoothly since its launch in November last year. Mutual fund flows have seen a continuous growth thereafter, and this has marked a new page of historic significance in the establishment of mutual access between the two capital markets. The unique connectivity with the Mainland stock market offered by the scheme has not only provided additional investment choices for investors, but is also beneficial to enhancing the offshore Renminbi business of Hong Kong, providing opportunities to the development of the financial intermediaries in Hong Kong, including providing services ranging from investment management, market research to custodian and brokerage services to Hong Kong and international investors going into the A-share market.

At present, we are discussing with the relevant authorities of the Central Government the detailed arrangements for the launch of the Shenzhen-Hong Kong Stock Connect and enhancement of the Shanghai-Hong Kong Stock Connect, in the hope of deepening and widening the mutual access, which will be conducive to the further development of the industry.

While we promote market development, we shall also ensure financial stability. In this connection, the Government has all along worked in close collaboration with regulatory authorities and the industry, and has kept a close watch over the regulatory tendencies in international communities. In formulating relevant policies, the Government has taken into consideration various interests and concerns, which is of paramount importance to increasing investor's confidence, attracting foreign investment and maintaining Hong Kong's status as a global financing centre.

A sound monitoring regime, the mature development of diversified financial markets, coupled with a pool of financial services talents who possess ample experience in international markets, have enabled Hong Kong to make its own contribution in the wake of the national development strategy "One Belt One 9086 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Road", in particular in areas of raising capital, professional services, and so on. At the same time, through the relevant international platforms and multilateral organizations, we will also be able to enhance our co-operation with other economies and seize the opportunities that arise.

Looking ahead, financial technologies hold promise in adding new impetus to our economy. As an international city with a highly developed information and communication technology sector, Hong Kong is an ideal place for developing financial technologies.

An increasing number of new service providers (including network service providers, e-commerce companies and start-ups) offer new initiatives constantly with the advent of new technologies, such as the use of big data for analysis. Financial technologies also create numerous opportunities for innovation. In the meantime, the rapid emergence of new initiatives has overturned the traditional mode of operation, thus bringing new challenges to consumer protection and regulatory institutions.

Against this background, the Financial Secretary announced in the Budget the setting up of a steering group on financial technologies to explore the opportunities provided by financial technologies. I have established the steering group comprising representatives from the industries, research and development institutions, as well as regulatory authorities and the group has held its first meeting earlier. Developing financial technologies entails the creation of conditions; it also involves government policies, supervisory structure, manpower training, as well as cultural and behavioural changes of traditional service providers, start-ups and consumers. In the coming few months, we will maintain close communication with various stakeholders. We will also make reference to overseas experience in developing financial technologies, and look into the potential of the financial technologies sector and possible measures to promote developments in this regard. It is hoped that the steering group will be able to submit a report to the Financial Secretary on the promotion of Hong Kong as a financial technologies hub in this financial year.

The above development will generate huge demand for talents in the financial and relevant professional services sectors. After taking into consideration the views of the industry, the Financial Secretary announced in the Budget that $100 million will be allocated to launch a three-year pilot scheme for manpower training, with its focus on insurance as well as asset and wealth management services sectors. We are discussing with the industry and relevant stakeholders on details of the initiatives to ensure that they can meet the needs of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9087 the industry. We will consult the Legislative Council Panel on Financial Affairs on the pilot programme before seeking funding approval from the Finance Committee.

We hope that the pilot scheme would attract more young people to join the industry, and promote partnership between the financial sector, academic sector and training institutions, so that concerted efforts will be made to enhance the local environment for nurturing talents for the financial services industry.

With Hong Kong being an international financial centre, the Government has been attaching great importance to the long-term development of financial affairs. In the coming year, we will endeavour to leverage on market opportunities, perform our regulatory role and nurture more talents, in the hope of setting a new scene for our development.

I implore Members to support and pass the Appropriation Bill 2015 as soon as possible.

Deputy President, I so submit. Thank you.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon the Financial Secretary to reply.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, many people are waiting for the Financial Secretary's turn to speak, and I therefore hope that more people will be able to listen to his speech. I request a headcount in accordance with Rule 17(2) of the Rules of Procedure.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(While the summoning bell was ringing, THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

9088 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

FINANCIAL SECRETARY (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to the public and various sectors of the community for their valuable views on the Budget over the past two months. Members expressed their views on individual policy areas during the 18-hour debate held on two consecutive days last week, and five Directors of Bureaux have just responded to their views in detail. Here is my response. I shall first give a brief account of the latest economic situation in Hong Kong and then share my views on maintaining fiscal stability and developing our economy.

The first is the economic situation. Beset by the weak global economic conditions, Hong Kong's economy grew only at a moderate pace in the past few years. Now, in 2015, the global economy is still shrouded by a multitude of uncertainties in a volatile climate.

Despite the launch of a new round of quantitative easing measures by the European Central Bank, the pace of recovery remains slow. The inflation rate in the Eurozone remained negative for four consecutive months, pointing to lingering deflation. Given the elevated level of unemployment, the instability of the geopolitical situation and the host of unresolved structural problems, the outlook is still a matter of concern.

Following the sales tax hike last year, Japan experienced two quarters of economic contraction before resuming growth in the fourth quarter. The rebound was, however, weaker than expected. The economy has yet to step out of the shadow of deflation and regain growth.

A "new normal" is, nevertheless, developing in the Mainland's economy. In the face of downward pressure, the Central Government has set the growth target for this year at 7%. The Mainland's economy will still likely outperform other major economies this year, and there is adequate policy headroom to achieve the intended target, assuming a crucial supporting role in bolstering Hong Kong's economy.

The pace of recovery in the United States is relatively steady. With strong employment growth, the unemployment rate dropped to a low level of 5.5% in March. Yet, the latest figures show slightly slackening growth in the United States economy, as evidenced by the export performance being affected by a stronger exchange rate and lower-than-expected orders for durable goods and performance of retail businesses, along with the fact that the recovery of the housing market is awaiting further consolidation. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9089

While the United States Federal Reserve Board removed the word "patient" when referring to interest rate rises in its policy statement after the meeting in March, the Federal Open Market Committee made downward revisions to the forecast of the United States economic growth, inflation and the policy interest rate. It added uncertainties to the timing and pace of the United States interest rate hike. This, coupled with the Federal Reserve Board's monetary policy that runs counter to quantitative easing of the central banks of the Eurozone and Japan, arouses my concern that the global financial market will be more volatile this year, making it more difficult to keep track of capital flows, and thus affecting global economic growth.

The persistent extremely low interest rate environment has flooded the global markets with excessive liquidity, thus fuelling the local property market. The exact timing and pace of the United States interest rate hike are still subject to uncertainties. We must not lose sight of the risk of a property bubble as long as the low-interest rate environment persists. I shall continue to monitor the property market closely, and I will not hesitate to introduce measures when necessary to maintain the healthy and steady development of the property market and safeguard the stability of our macroeconomic and financial systems.

The complicated external environment, combined with a stronger US dollar, inevitably put a drag on Hong Kong's trade performance. Even viewed against the low base of comparison last year, Hong Kong's mechanize exports only saw moderate year-on-year growth in the first two months of this year. While the labour market holds stable and the unemployment rate stays at 3.3%, a level which signifies full employment, global economic slackening, if continued, may weigh on the local labour market.

In view of the slowdown in the growth of private consumption and the slight drop in the overall investment spending last year, I cannot be optimistic about the performance of our domestic economy this year. I forecast that the real growth rate of Hong Kong's economy will range only from 1% to 3% this year, lower than the average trend growth rate of 3.9% over the past 10 years.

The business of the retail industry and some other sectors was affected by the Occupy movement last year. Retail sales have been on a subdued trend and retail sales value in the first two months of this year recorded a year-on-year decrease of 2%. Inbound tourism stayed lacklustre, too. The number of non-Mainland visitors continued to fall, showing a year-on-year decrease of 5% 9090 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 in the first three months, and total visitor arrivals during the Ching Ming Festive period in early April dropped over 10%, the first decline over the past five years. This is undoubtedly a warning sign. In this year's Budget, I have announced an array of measures to support the small and medium enterprises and sectors which were affected by the Occupy movement. These measures can provide some timely support to ease the impact on the overall economy.

To rebuild the global image of Hong Kong and the confidence of investors and tourists, I have announced in the Budget the allocation of $80 million for the Hong Kong Tourism Board to step up its promotional efforts in neighbouring regions and offer merchandise concessions to attract tourists. I shall also allocate an additional $26 million to the Information Services Department to further promote Brand Hong Kong internationally. I expect that these measures will all achieve the desired objectives.

In the face of the downside risks to our economy this year, I have proposed in the Budget relief measures amounting to $34 billion to alleviate the financial burden on the public as well as stimulate consumption, stabilize the economy and preserve employment. Together with other initiatives in the Budget, these expenditures will have a fiscal stimulus effect of boosting economic growth by one percentage point.

As to inflation, on the back of sub-par global economic growth, global commodity prices have softened, imported inflation has stayed benign and local cost pressures are also moderate. The underlying inflation rate in the first quarter of this year averaged 2.7%. I forecast that the underlying inflation rate for 2015 as a whole will be 3%, lower than the 3.5% in the last year.

President, the global economy has stayed sluggish after the financial tsunami in 2008. However, Hong Kong has maintained economic stability and fiscal health during these years. This is largely attributable to the fact that we have been upholding fiscal discipline and managing public finances prudently.

In the medium-range forecast of this year's Budget, I have projected a surplus in the Government's Consolidated Account in the coming five years. Some say that the alert made earlier by the Working Group on Long-Term Fiscal Planning about the surfacing of a structural deficit within 10 years might be out of tune with the reality. They may be unaware that the medium-range forecast has not taken into account the spending on new initiatives, let alone the impact of an LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9091 ageing population on economic growth and government expenditure. The Working Group estimated in its first report that our working population would continue to expand in the next few years, thus economic growth and government revenue would still exceed government expenditure. This "living with surplus" period, according to the Working Group, might give the community a false sense of financial security.

However, when the short-to-medium term is over, the working population will be shrinking from 2018 onwards, slackening economic development and government revenue growth. An ageing population will inevitably result in an increase in public expenditure, especially on medical and welfare fronts. A structural deficit is bound to emerge when expenditure growth keeps outpacing revenue growth.

To maintain the Government's fiscal health, we must take forward a combination of measures to contain expenditure growth, stabilize revenue and save up appropriately. All this helps to sustain adequate fiscal strength and flexibility.

I have announced in the Budget the establishment of a Future Fund, which is meant to be long-term investment for a portion of the fiscal reserves to yield better investment returns. Some Members worry that the establishment of the Future Fund is a financial management technique for the Government to freeze resources and avoid expenditure growth. I must reiterate that establishing the Future Fund is an investment strategy of the fiscal reserves and has nothing to do with expenditure. The Future Fund will remain a component part of the fiscal reserves. If we are to use it, we must seek prior approval from the Legislative Council according to established practice. Besides, the establishment of the Future Fund will not at all affect the Government's commitments to people's livelihood and social development.

President, to maintain our fiscal health in the long run, the most fundamental means is to sustain Hong Kong's economic vibrancy and improve the business environment of the city, thereby providing diversified employment opportunities for the people.

Hong Kong's traditional pillar industries, such as trading and logistics, business and professional services as well as financial services, have clear advantages internationally. Under the new development strategy of the "One 9092 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Belt One Road" initiatives of our nation, emerging markets along the routes will further present tremendous opportunities and room for development for these industries. I consider that Hong Kong can actively take part in building the "One Belt One Road" as a supporter, connector and investor.

Hong Kong is a major asset management centre in Asia. With rich experience in the international market, our management talent is capable of providing related services for the development projects under the "One Belt One Road" initiatives. We can play a professional supporting role for these projects by rendering services in risk management, auditing and accounting, sales and marketing, legal and arbitration, as well as architecture, planning and surveying.

As an international commercial hub with an extensive network of business connections, Hong Kong can play an intermediary role for governments and enterprises all over the world, facilitating economic and trade co-operation as well as spurring infrastructure and business development. Besides, infrastructure development in countries along the "One Belt One Road" will be seeking huge capital. Hong Kong, at the international leading edge of financial services, can provide an effective and high-quality financing platform to raise capital for these infrastructure projects.

The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) currently under intense public discussion is a key initiative to promote financial intermediation under the "One Belt One Road". We have indicated to the Central Government that we intend to become a member of the AIIB. We have received support from the Central Government. To grasp the latest developments, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Government's representatives have joined the Chinese delegation to attend the preparatory meetings of the AIIB. In the near future, we shall encourage and help the commercial sector to gain a better understanding of the "One Belt One Road" initiative. I also plan to lead delegations to visit some economies along the "One Belt One Road" to strengthen our political and commercial ties with them.

The idea I put up in the Budget to introduce food trucks has aroused quite a response, an indication of fairly high expectations from the public. The Commerce and Economic Development Bureau has, in collaboration with departments concerned, including the Food and Health Bureau, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, the Transport Department, the Fire Services Department, and the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department, studied LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9093 such aspects as licensing, mode of operation, environmental hygiene and site selection. Moreover, we are actively collating information on licensing and successful cases in overseas countries. We are also identifying suitable parking sites for food trucks. In order to introduce food trucks to Hong Kong as soon as practicable, we shall, in the first stage, seek to deal flexibly with the licensing of food trucks under the existing legislative framework as long as the requirements on food hygiene, fire safety and free traffic flow are met.

President, as in the past two years, some individual Members have proposed a considerable number of amendments to the Appropriation Bill 2015. This year sees a record high of over 3 900 amendments. The number has been reduced to 618, after the ruling of the President. Yet, discussions on individual items take time, and voting alone will still require around 20 hours.

I have to point out that the funds on account totalling $81.6 billion previously authorized by this Council are only sufficient to meet the overall government expenditure before the end of May. Government departments and the public sector will begin to see resources running out in early June, and thus be unable to maintain normal services. This will affect the payment of salary for June to civil servants and subvented sector staff, and even affect the release of social welfare payments at a later time.

The timely passage of the Budget has a bearing on significant economic and livelihood issues. It affects not only government operations and the delivery of such public services as healthcare, education, livelihood, enforcement and judicial services, but also the well-being of our citizens from all walks of life. The Government will make every effort to support this Council's scrutiny. In parallel, we shall also get ready for any possible scenarios to minimize the negative effects of insufficient resources on the community at large.

The passage of the Budget will enable the early implementation of the support and relief measures announced, thus benefiting the general public and various sectors in a timely manner. The beneficiaries will include over 1 million eligible recipients of Comprehensive Social Security Allowance, Old Age Allowance, Old Age Living Allowance and Disability Allowance. For the tourism industry and sectors affected by the Occupy movement, the promotional and support measures laid out in the Budget are also of great significance amid the current difficult time.

9094 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

I earnestly seek Members' support for an early passage of the Appropriation Bill 2015 in the overall interests of the community. And I sincerely appeal to Members not to delay the passage with meaningless filibustering tactics just because they want to raise objections simply for the sake of doing so. Their act, out of personal political aims, will only lead to a lose-lose situation in which all sectors of the community will suffer unnecessarily.

With these remarks, President, I hope that Members will pass the Appropriation Bill 2015 as soon as possible. Thank you.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the Appropriation Bill 2015 be read the Second time. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr Albert CHAN rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9095

Mr CHAN Kam-lam, Mr TAM Yiu-chung, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Vincent FANG, Mr WONG Kwok-hing, Prof Joseph LEE, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr Andrew LEUNG, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Dr LEUNG Ka-lau, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mr IP Kwok-him, Mrs Regina IP, Mr NG Leung-sing, Mr Steven HO, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Miss CHAN Yuen-han, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Miss Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Mr TANG Ka-piu, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr Christopher CHUNG and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion.

Mr LEE Cheuk-yan, Mr Frederick FUNG, Ms Cyd HO, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-che, Mr Alan LEONG, Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, Mr Albert CHAN, Mr WONG Yuk-man, Mr Gary FAN, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr Kenneth CHAN and Dr KWOK Ka-ki voted against the motion.

Mr Albert HO, Ms Emily LAU, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr SIN Chung-kai and Dr Helena WONG abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Jasper TSANG, did not cast any vote.

THE PRESIDENT announced that there were 54 Members present, 36 were in favour of the motion, 12 against it and five abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of the Members present, he therefore declared that the motion was passed.

CLERK (in Cantonese): The Appropriation Bill 2015.

Council went into Committee.

9096 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Committee Stage

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Committee stage. Council is now in Committee.

Before Committee proceeds with the deliberations, I would like to draw Members' attention to the following arrangements. During the scrutiny of the Appropriation Bill 2015, the meeting hours of this Council will be the same as those in the past several weeks. Meetings will start at 11 am and be suspended at 8 pm on Wednesdays, and they shall resume at 10 am and be suspended again at 8 pm on Thursdays. If meetings with District Council members have been scheduled for Thursday mornings, Council meetings will resume at 2.30 pm. Meetings will resume at 9 am and be adjourned at 1 pm on Fridays.

The aforesaid meeting arrangements will apply to the whole procedure for dealing with the Appropriation Bill.

(Mr CHAN Chi-chuen raised his hand in indication)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, what is your point?

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): You said just now that meetings will resume at 10 am on Thursdays, which does not tally with the arrangement of resuming the meeting at 9 am as stated in the paper you issued to Members earlier. I would like to seek your elucidation.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): What time did I say just now?

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): You said 10 am.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I am sorry, but it should be 9 am on Thursdays. Thanks to Mr CHAN Chi-chuen for his reminder.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9097

Let me repeat. Meetings on Wednesdays will be from 11 am to 8 pm. On Thursdays, Council meetings are held from 9 am to 8 pm if no meetings with District Council members have been scheduled; otherwise Council meetings shall resume at 2.30 pm. Meetings on Fridays will be held from 9 am to 1 pm.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The debate and voting arrangements for the Appropriation Bill at Committee stage are roughly the same as those of last year. As stated in the circular displayed by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen just now, Committee will conduct a total of eight debates. The first debate involves heads with no amendments, and we shall proceed to vote on whether the sums for the relevant heads stand part of the Schedule immediately following the conclusion of the debate. Committee will then conduct the second to sixth debates on the amendments, the themes of which are based on the grouping of areas for the debate on the Motion of Thanks in respect of this year's Policy Address.

Following the conclusion of debates and voting on the amendments, Committee will conduct the seventh debate on heads with amendments before voting on whether the sum for each head stands part of the Schedule and whether the Schedule stands part of the Bill. The last debate is on clauses 1 and 2, and then we shall put to vote that the two clauses stand part of the Bill. All proceedings of Committee will be completed by then. Council will thereafter vote on the Third Reading of the Bill. The arrangements are roughly the same as those for dealing with the Appropriation Bill of last year.

I received a letter from the Financial Secretary this morning, pointing out that if the Bill cannot be passed in time, various public services will be affected, including some of the services mentioned by the Financial Secretary in his reply just now.

I think this Council is duty-bound to complete the proceedings to consider the Appropriation Bill within a reasonable period of time. If I set late May as the deadline for completing all the proceedings, we will have about 100 meeting hours available for use. In order to enable Members to speak in various debates as far as possible, I will make a reasonable allocation of time for each debate. If a debate has been going on for some time, and I believe that Members already have sufficient opportunities to speak, I will then declare the conclusion of that debate and proceed to the next debate, or proceed to the next stage to deal with the Appropriation Bill in accordance with our procedure.

9098 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

I must also remind Members that if a Member requests a headcount, it takes us some time to wait for Members to return to the Chamber for the presence of a quorum, the time available for Members to engage in debates will inevitably be reduced. Earlier, it took us a total of over 40 minutes to undertake four headcounts. For this reason, I hope that Members can be co-operative, cherish our meeting time, and consider the Appropriation Bill in a responsible way.

APPROPRIATION BILL 2015

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): In accordance with Rule 68 of the Rules of Procedure, Committee will first consider the Schedule.

I now propose the question to you and that is: That the sums for the following heads stand part of the Schedule.

CLERK (in Cantonese): Heads 27, 37, 48, 78, 80, 94, 106, 112, 114, 116, 120, 136, 160, 163, 166, 168, 169, 173, 184, 188 and 194.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The Clerk has just read out the heads with no amendment. Committee now proceeds to the first debate. Does any Member wish to speak?

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I must first state clearly that I do not agree to your arrangements for the Committee stage, because you have mechanically divided the discussion into several sessions and set a time limit on each session. By doing so, you have basically stripped Members of the opportunity to speak on individual items under deliberation and of the responsibility to deliberate on government expenditures. For this reason, what you have done will, in my view, impair the responsibility and right of the Legislative Council to deliberate on the Bill.

Chairman, I must express my disappointment about a point made by the Financial Secretary in his speech just now. The Financial Secretary indicated just now that Members have their own political motives when they deliberate on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9099 the Bill and raise a series of questions. Chairman, a senior official has acted ignorantly and violated the Rules of Procedure in speculating on the motives of Members. It is very wrong for him to do so and this reveals his shallowness. It is inappropriate for the Financial Secretary to do so in his capacity as a senior official.

In addition, the Chairman said that quorum calls are a waste of time, but it is the due responsibility of Members to attend meetings. As a quorum is again not present now, will the Chairman please do a headcount.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue with your speech.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I must point out that the Financial Secretary must rectify his attitude just now as speculation on the motives of Members by Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux contravenes the existing institution.

Chairman, although no amendment is proposed to certain heads, it does not mean that the items under the heads are in order. The must point out that though the 391 amendments proposed by us do not involve such heads, it does not mean the essence of such heads is acceptable. No amendments have been proposed because numerous problems will arise if such heads are voted down or amended. Take the expenditure of the Water Supplies Department (WSD) under head 194 as an example. We have not proposed any amendment to reduce the provision for this department, because the livelihood of the general public will be affected if we do so. That said, before the passage of this head, we would like to point out that the $7.5 billion expenditure of the WSD under head 194 is extremely inappropriate and unreasonable.

9100 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

When the Budget was passed last year, the People Power already pointed out the problem concerning the unequal agreement. As Members are well aware, Hong Kong has entered into an agreement with the Guangdong Provincial Government regarding the supply of fresh water, and part of Hong Kong's fresh water comes from Dongjiang imported to Hong Kong via an aqueduct. However, the water costs and the computation of water consumption are extremely unfair and unreasonable. In order to establish friendly relationship with the Guangdong Provincial Government, the Government has been generous at the cost of others, sacrificing the interests of Hong Kong people, and sacrificing the principle of prudent financial management in monitoring public expenditures of Hong Kong. We may probably say that the Government is pouring water into the sea, which is tantamount to dumping money into the sea.

Regarding the overall arrangement, I believe that Hong Kong people are willing to pay the relevant costs if expenditure is computed on the basis of actual water consumption and the price is reasonable. However, the actual situation is extremely unreasonable and the price charged is extremely high. The relevant figures reveal that from 2005 to 2013, the quantity of Dongjiang water paid for but not consumed by Hong Kong amounted to 1 billion cu m. The excessive water imported to Hong Kong by Guangdong Province was discharged into the sea, and the amount wasted amounted to $5 billion, which must be borne by the 7 million Hong Kong residents. We have requested the Government to hand out $10,000 to every Hong Kong resident, and this will merely cost $70 billion. In other words, every Hong Kong resident has to bear $800 to $900 for the amount of $5 billion. Such waste of water and being generous at the expense of Hong Kong people are immensely inappropriate.

Among the questions I put to the Government regarding the Budget, there was a question on the quota for Dongjiang water and the actual consumption of fresh water. I believe few Members have paid attention to the relevant reply, and the media have shown little interest. According to the reply, there is a gap between the actual consumption of and the quota for Dongjiang water, or there is a gap between the estimated consumption and the actual consumption. This is probably because our Financial Secretary is renowned for making wrong estimation. Despite the wrong estimation, the Budget gets passed every year; despite the wrong estimation, he gets a pay rise every year; despite the wrong estimation, he continues to be the Financial Secretary every year. To err is probably a mark of success, a pre-requisite of success. One cannot get promoted LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9101 if he does not err; neither can he be a hatchet man of the Hong Kong communist regime if he does not err. The more errors one makes, the faster he can get promoted. This is exactly the case with LEUNG Chun-ying.

Let us take a look at the quota for Dongjiang water and the actual quantity of water supplied. In 2012, the actual quantity of Dongjiang water supplied was 700 million cu m, while the supply ceiling was 820 million cu m, representing an excess of some 110 million cu m. Chairman, the price may vary every year, but the water wasted amounts to hundreds of millions of cu m. The gap in 2013 was even more alarming. In 2013 the actual quantity of water supplied was 610 million cu m, while the quota was 820 million cu m, and the quantity of water wasted amounted to 208 million cu m, representing an increase of 100% over 2012. The situation in 2014 was better, and the gap in that year was similar with that in 2012. The actual quantity of water supplied was 720 million cu m, while the supply ceiling was 820 million cu m, representing a gap of some 100 million cu m.

As with the Budget, the Government makes wrong estimation every year, thus wasting public money year after year. The Dongjiang water charges are paid to the Guangdong Provincial Government for nothing, and our public money is wasted to no purpose. Owing to official's incompetence, wrong estimates, faulty arrangement, many areas cannot get fresh water supply. In order to fulfil the requirement of the agreement, Guangdong supplies water to Hong Kong, consequently farmers from villages and small towns of the Province may be victimized. No wonder more and more Mainlanders hold a grudge against Hong Kong, not just because of the protests against Mainland visitors under the Individual Visit Scheme. When seeing us, Mainlanders would ask "Being rich, can you be so conceited? Being rich, can you use up all our fresh water and then discharge hundreds of millions of cu m of water into the sea? Whereas in the Mainland, people have to save on fresh water, and our farmers sometimes have no access to fresh water." As such, the mismanagement of Dongjiang water may have contributed to Mainland-Hong Kong conflicts and the deterioration of Mainland-Hong Kong relations. We should not take such problems lightly, in particular, as China is a country built on agriculture, many Chinese come from families of farmers, and they are infuriated by such waste of fresh water. In fact, Hong Kong people should decline the supply of excessive water and allow Mainland farmers to use the water free of charge as a present. The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB) should take on 9102 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 this task. The DAB often pays site visits to the Dongjiang River, where faeces have been detected. Hong Kong people are drinking water mixed with faeces. The DAB needs to facilitate the proper use of fresh water and avoid wasting water.

Chairman, in addition to over supply of water, another major problem is the water price. Even if we do not make a comparison with countries in South East Asia, the United States or Canada, but with areas in the vicinity of Guangdong Province, we find that the water price we paid is surprisingly high, as if we have been robbed. Chairman, Shenzhen and Hong Kong is divided only by a river, and LEUNG Chun-ying often talks about the development of Hong Kong and Shenzhen into a single metropolis and the integration of the two places. He talks nonsense and pushes Hong Kong into extinction. This represents the nonsense of LEUNG Chun-ying "689" …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN, your remarks are mostly irrelevant to the subject.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I am talking about the prices of Dongjiang water. I am merely taking this chance to criticize "689". I believe that Hong Kong people love such remarks, Chairman.

Chairman, regarding the price of Dongjiang water, the unit price of water sold by Guangdong Province to Shenzhen is $0.96 per cu m, which is less than $1, but the unit price of water sold to Hong Kong, its neighbor, is $4.8 per cu m, which is over four times more expensive. Is the water sold to Hong Kong sacred water or holy water? How can the price vary so greatly for the same water? Hong Kong and Shenzhen both benefit from Dongjiang water, but there is a four times, almost five times price difference. We can say that Hong Kong is being robbed, having no other choice and having no bargaining power. Since Hong Kong officials invariably exhibit their servility in the presence of Mainland officials, they are hardly dignified to deal with the issue on behalf of Hong Kong people.

Chairman, a price rise is still to come in the new water supply agreement for the coming three years from 2015 to 2017, with the unit price per cu m increasing from $4.8 to $5.5. The existing price is already high, which is five LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9103 times more expensive than that for Shenzhen, and after the price hike, it will be six times more expensive. Chairman, the price will be paid by us, not from officials' remunerations or other sources. Every member of the public has to pay the price with his hard-earned money. For this reason, the said practice is utterly inappropriate.

Chairman, there is another issue which I have been talking about for over 20 years, and this is not the first time I raise this issue. The WSD has been wasting water, one of the reasons is wrong estimation, leading to the pouring of water into the sea, and another reason is leakage of water mains. Annual water leakage exceeds 100 million cu m. Chairman, let us take a look at the information on leaky water mains. In the three years of 2013, 2014 and 2015, the annual water leakage rate accounted for 15% to 17% of the total water supplied, and the annual economic losses incurred ranged between $1,230 million to $1,330 million. These losses have been incurred purely because of leakage. As such, the problems arising from leaky water mains and the gap between the estimated consumption and actual consumption of Dongjiang water are egregious. I must point out today that this department is wasting taxpayers' money and fresh water year after year.

Why do we not propose to reduce the expenditure for the WSD and vote down this expenditure item? It is because voting down the expenditure item will make Hong Kong devoid of fresh water supply and cause many problems. Since we find this hardly acceptable, we have not proposed any amendment, but that does not mean that we are satisfied with our fresh water supply. Far from being satisfied, we are utterly infuriated by the wrong estimation leading to the waste of water, exorbitant water charges and severe leakage problems.

DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Chairman, this year's Budget is very disappointing, especially because many services have not received adequate funding as a result of the Financial Secretary's repeated wrong estimation and reduced public spending. I would like to speak on the services under "Head 37 ― Department of Health" (DH).

As Members may be aware, over the years, the Government has failed to attach due weight to primary healthcare services, especially the various services provided by the DH for the grassroots, including school medical service, influenza vaccination service as well as health screening and elderly services. 9104 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Unfortunately, the funding provided by the Government to the DH is still seriously inadequate this year, such that the DH fails to meet a number of targets and cannot provide services to improve the environmental hygiene condition to cater for the needs of the grassroots.

Regarding the appropriation of funds proposed in this year's Budget, the first service that I would like to talk about is the inspection of drug stores by the DH. At present, the DH will inspect each drug store or the so-called "licensed retail drug premises" twice a year. Chairman, after widespread coverage by the media, Members may have noticed that many drug stores in Hong Kong are blatantly breaking the laws, from the slightest offence of selling prescription drugs to the most serious offence of selling cough medicine or dangerous drugs. Many grass-roots families, especially children, have drug abuse problem. According to social workers, in most cases, the first drug abused by people is cough medicine. Chairman, it is very dangerous to abuse cough medicine and overdose of cough medicine is harmful to the body, and may even be fatal. Nonetheless, many drug stores still blatantly break the laws and sell cough medicine to adults, students and children without prescription.

Furthermore, as some grass-roots people do not want to queue up for out-patient services provided by the DH, they get their medicine from drug stores. Drug stores will sell customers whatever medicine they want, such as medicine for relieving headache or medicine for treating fever. A more frightening fact is that some drug stores sell medicine that they are not supposed to sell, such as antibiotics. If a person suspects that he suffers from diabetes and goes to a drug store for getting medication, the latter will sell diabetes medicine to him though it does not have any pharmacist or trained staff. Or, if a person suspects that he suffers from hypertension, the drug store may give him illicit drugs, including anti-hypertensive agents, without trying to understand why he has such symptoms. This is why the Accident and Emergency departments of the Hospital Authority have to deal with many serious cases of wrong intake of medicines every year. In less serious cases, patients may suffer from temporary low blood pressure and have to be hospitalized; in some serious cases, patients may suffer from low blood sugar which may cause permanent injuries to the brain.

Did Members notice the relevant target of the DH? The target to inspect drug stores twice in 365 days has remained unchanged from 2013 to 2015, and this is tantamount to telling drug stores that the DH winks at them. If I am a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9105 drug store operator with the intent to sell illicit drugs, I must be very happy to learn about the performance pledge of the DH, which is to inspect drug stores twice in 365 days. In other words, the drug stores may prepare for the inspection in advance and can then feel at ease in breaking the law for the rest of the time. How can we say that Hong Kong is a healthy city? We certainly fail to take measures to safeguard members of the public, the grassroots in particular.

Of course, the Government is largely responsible for this. Many people may not want to buy medicine at drug stores, but since they cannot get an appointment at the general out-patient clinics by calling the DH, they are forced to do so. Firstly, no one answers phone calls at the clinics since a telephone appointment system is in operation. Secondly, even if the patients go to the clinics in person to beg for a consultation quota, they are told to "go home and call us again". This is indeed too rigid and many elders, poor and grass-roots people have been turned away more than once. Thus, though knowing that it is not safe to buy medicine from drug stores, people would still do so when they have no other choice and no money.

The Government, Policy Bureaux and the DH should be responsible for the harm done to many grass-roots people. I am therefore infuriated to learn that the Government has once again set the target of inspecting drug stores at twice a year, and has shamelessly claimed that it has fully achieved the target. As a matter of fact, the Government should increase the number of inspection of licenced retail drug premises (or drug stores) instead of inspecting them twice a year. Why not increase the number of inspection and provide more protection for members of the public? Covert operations conducted by radio stations, television stations or newspapers have been very successful, meaning that consumers can always buy dangerous drugs from drug stores. Only the DH is left in the dark and does not see the problem, thinking that it has fully achieved the inspection target. However, Chairman, it is indeed a piece of cake because if the DH set an even lower target, say, to conduct inspection once a year, the target may even be over-achieved. Why not set the target of conducting an inspection once a year? It is unacceptable to have such an unpromising department, which has all along refused to set a higher target.

Another service pledge of the DH is to process registration application from healthcare professionals within 10 working days. Chairman, I have recently received a case in which a healthcare personnel has his licence revoked by the DH because he forgot to pay the licence renewal fee. He then submitted an application for re-registration, but the processing time took more than 10 days 9106 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 as the DH has to pass his application to the relevant professional committees for consideration at its next meeting. As a result, the healthcare personnel concerned has waited for nearly six months to have his licence back. During that period of time, his patients failed to receive sustainable care and his clinic could not provide services to patients who frequently seek treatment. There is only one reason, and that is, the dereliction of duty on the part of the DH. I therefore find it misleading for the DH to state that the processing time for registration application is 10 days. I eagerly hope that the DH will review the existing registration system for healthcare professionals, especially licence renewal, as the existing practice is absolutely unfair to both the patients and service providers.

Furthermore, according to head 37, the DH is required to inspect private hospitals (including maternity homes) registered under Cap. 165 twice a year, and likewise, the target for 2013, 2014 and 2015 is also inspection twice a year. As Members may be aware, it was exposed today that Legionella bacteria was found in a private hospital. This reveals a large loophole, and that is, the DH's monitoring of private hospitals is unacceptable to many patients and members of the public.

Most of these private hospitals have been granted land at nil premium with their charitable status, and this is the case of the newly built Chinese Medical Centre, which will operate as private hospital at nil premium. What are the responsibilities of these private hospitals? They are obliged to charge reasonable fees and avoid overcharging. However, some private hospitals have gone so far that they have accumulated as much as $2 billion surplus. How is it possible for a charitable organization to accumulate over $2 billion surplus but the Government still winks at their blatant law-breaking behaviour? Why has the number of inspection remained unchanged at twice a year for so many years without any increase, so as to provide more protection for hundreds of patients seeking consultation at private hospitals?

In fact, patients seeking consultation at private hospitals are very pitiable. Due to insufficient public services and poor performance, the waiting time has been very long. As a result, many families, though not wealthy, are forced to use up all their savings to seek consultation at private hospitals. But are they well protected? The Government has not only done badly in its healthcare work, but also failed to provide the minimum protection. This explains why private hospitals have blatantly broken the law and have not followed the procedure to LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9107 report medical incidents, so as to address public concern. I think this is entirely attributed to the DH's failure to perform its duties to exercise sufficient monitoring and carry out adequate inspection. Thus, when I notice that the target of this year is again conducting inspection twice a year, I am infuriated and do not see how the DH can convince me.

For nursing homes registered under the Hospitals, Nursing Homes and Maternity Homes Registration Ordinance, the situation is even worse because the DH only conducts inspection once a year. Recently, I received a case about an elderly person having hemorrhage from the stomach after he fell down, and ultimately he died at the hospital due to delay in rescue. How many people really care about the elderly? The Government only conducts inspection once a year. If there are nursing homes whose performance, manpower and facilities are not up to standard, it is impossible for the Government to identify any problem during that one and only annual inspection. I wonder if the budget of next year will be as perfunctory as this year by setting the same target of inspection once a year, and then claim full achievement of its goal. If the target of the DH is to conduct inspection only 0.5 time a year, it can fully achieve the target for sure. Why does the DH insist on such a target? This is bizarre.

Another issue that I wish to discuss is the number of registration applications of pharmaceutical products processed. The number of applications has shown a declining trend, which reflects that some pharmaceutical products are no longer registered in Hong Kong. One of the reasons is the high threshold of registration in Hong Kong, thus many cheaper pharmaceutical products have preferred not to register in Hong Kong. A number of doctors working in hospitals have reflected and complained to me that the purchase of generic drugs has become more difficult as the existing threshold only helps large drug stores to oppress small drug stores. The Government often spends long time to deal with minor irregularities. For large pharmaceutical companies with patented drugs, their medicine can be sold at a price 10, 20 or 30 times higher than that of ordinary drugs, and they have no worry about their products not getting through. Those poor pharmaceutical companies of medium and small size, on the other hand, can hardly survive and have successively closed down. This has led to a decline in the number of registration applications of pharmaceutical products year-on-year. Chairman, what will happen then? Ordinary people find it more difficult to buy cheap medicine and pharmaceutical companies of small to medium size can hardly survive.

9108 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

I wonder if the representatives of the business sector are aware of the situation. The patients are suffering. Pills originally sold at $1 each has now surged to $5, $10 or even $20 because this is lucrative to pharmaceutical companies. What if patients cannot afford to buy the medicine? I am sorry, that is their own business. They will receive medical treatment if they are so lucky to get a consultation quota from the DH, otherwise, they will have no choice but to buy the expensive medicine. In the absence of a fair system, it is absolutely sad to see fewer registration applications of pharmaceutical products.

Also, Chairman, I wish to discuss the School Dental Care Service participation rate. The participation rate is dubious because it is still only 90% but not 100%. This is indeed attributable to the Government's lack of an overall policy on dental care. In Hong Kong, although the Government has a handsome surplus and can expand its commitment to dental care, the Food and Welfare Bureau and the DH have refused to do so. No wonder the figures have not increased so far. We fail to see any improvement in the services provided or any increase in manpower. The ever-increasing pressure on dental hygienists, who have been working very hard day after day, cannot be relieved.

Chairman, if there is still time for me to speak in this debate session, I will continue to follow up on the insufficient services of the DH. Thank you, Chairman.

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I request a headcount under Rule 17(3).

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms Cyd HO, please speak.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9109

MS CYD HO (in Cantonese): Chairman, in the past, I always proposed amendments to reduce the expenditure on the emoluments of the Director of Broadcasting as the chief editor of Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK). This year, I have not proposed such amendments, not because I am indulgent towards the unqualified chief editor, Roy TANG, but because the workload of RTHK staff has increased substantially, and Hong Kong desperately needs a public service broadcaster. Hence, I have not proposed any such amendments.

As we note from the two Draft Estimates, which are as thick as a telephone directory, the estimated expenditure for RTHK next year will increase by 7.6% over its original estimate in 2014-2015. There is a good reason for it, and such an increase is by no means substantial. The number of hours transmitted by RTHK is projected to increase from 8 364 hours in 2013-2014 to 18 611 in 2015-2016, representing a staggering increase of almost 10 000 hours. The number of programmes per programme staff and hence, their workload will also increase substantially, from 8.2 programmes in 2013-2014 to 12.1 in 2014-2015, or an increase of 50%. Yet their salaries have not been increased by such a great percentage. The situation in 2015-2016 is more reasonable as it is estimated that ― only estimated figures at this stage ― each programme staff will be responsible for producing 10.9 programmes per annum. But when compared with the 8.2 programmes in 2013-2014, the number has already increased by more than 25%. By comparison, the 7.6% increase in the overall financial provision for RTHK is actually very restrained or moderate.

Of the total provision for RTHK, Programme (2) Public Affairs and General Television Programme is the one with the largest increase in expenditure. As a matter of fact, RTHK is not a broadcaster specializing in general programming because it lacks the expertise in producing drama series or game shows, yet such programmes are included under this Programme. The increased provision should primarily be spent on public affairs programmes. Since RTHK commenced digital terrestrial television services, 22 additional fill-in stations have been established and transmission facilities have also been provided in public housing estates. RTHK TV 31 is also in operation. Honestly, this channel is only watched by a small number of viewers, with only a few hours of programmes produced by RTHK. But it is a good start anyway.

As we have said before, the increased provision may be insufficient to cope with the current workload of RTHK. Nonetheless, there are two reasons why RTHK should be allocated with extra funding. Firstly, the $6-odd billion funding proposal for the construction of a new Broadcasting House in Tseung 9110 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Kwan O has been rejected by the pro-establishment camp in the Legislative Council last year. With 40-odd votes in total, the pro-establishment camp certainly had the power to veto the funding proposal. The Government had also made no particular effort to promote the proposal on behalf of RTHK. The senior management of RTHK should also know that even if they were willing to get down on their knees and made concessions, they might not necessarily obtain the necessary funding. I hope they can reflect on this incident so that they will concentrate on performing their proper duties as journalists from now on.

The major reason for constructing the new Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O is that the existing Broadcasting House on Broadcast Drive is too dilapidated with problems such as mice and dripping ceilings. People always make jokes that those are stone-age facilities, which are quite horrible. Compared with online or digital broadcaster such as D100 or DBC, RTHK's facilities are very outdated. A renovation is warranted. However, no matter what extensive renovation is made to the old Broadcasting House, the effect would just be minimal, and the most effective solution would be the construction of a new Broadcasting House. Regrettably, the funding application was met with opposition. We have no idea when the Government will re-submit the funding application to the Legislative Council. Perhaps the Government would need to lobby for the support of the pro-establishment camp and see on what conditions they would give their support for the funding request.

Apart from the need for a new Broadcasting House and a revamp of the broadcasting facilities, RTHK has also been given a mission impossible by the Government, that is, as a stop-gap measure, it may have to take over Asia Television Limited (ATV). As far as the ATV incident is concerned, the Government is the culprit. Regarding the applications for free domestic television programme services licences (free TV licences), the former Broadcasting Authority had already completed the vetting procedures and recommended that three free TV licences be granted. Despite the fact that some broadcasters in the market might cease operation if three free TV licences were granted, the former Broadcasting Authority still made this recommendation. I believe that when making such a recommendation, the former Broadcasting Authority clearly noted that some broadcasters did not have the passion or capability to provide the services, and the TV station was run by slogans. But contrary to many people's expectation, the Government decided that only two, instead of three, free TV licences would be granted. Many people were surprised or astonished when the decision was announced.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9111

What are the objective consequences? Two free TV licences for providing analogue broadcasting services with terrestrial airwaves are still held by Television Broadcast Limited (TVB) and ATV. ATV has all along been the underdog in the market. Even airing the programmes produced by RTHK during prime time, ATV would only have 77 900 viewers ― I have no idea how they manage to come up with such an accurate figure ― yet if the same programme is aired on TVB, there would be 610 000 viewers. In other words, the difference is almost nine times. ATV has been an underdog for such a long time that if there is no new entrant, TVB would continue to dominate the market while ATV would remain the underdog. Ultimately, TVB will monopolize the market. The general public are gravely dissatisfied with the situation for they consider that they even have no choice in choosing TV programmes.

Towards the end of last year, it was finally revealed that ATV, the underdog, had been defaulting on payment of staff wages. The authorities had even issued dozens of summons, and referred the cases to the Labour Tribunal. ATV had defaulted payment of wages to its staff not for one month, but two months. Every time, its management must resort to borrowing before the default wages could be paid. Furthermore, its shareholders had always been embroiled in disputes and quarrels, with their rifts surfacing and intensifying. Unwilling to fork out more money and make injections into the company, they would rather extend personal loans to the staff in substitution of wages. Just when ATV was close to striking a business deal with a new shareholder to take over the company, the Government suddenly worked efficiently for no obvious reason, claiming that it had acted in strict accordance with procedural justice. On the day when ATV was about to conclude the business agreement, the Government urgently convened a special meeting of the Executive Council in the morning, and then announced its decision of not renewing the free TV licence of ATV. ATV will cease operation by April next year. Interestingly, ATV's financial position cannot sustain its operation until April next year. Recently, ATV's management indicated that its working capital would be used up after paying two more months of wages to the staff, and it was still holding negotiations with the interested buyer to see whether other modes of business co-operation were available to sustain ATV's operation until April next year.

Of course, things might not go well. If the negotiations break down, ATV will certainly cease operation. According to the Government, if ATV ceases operation, RTHK would take over as a stop-gap measure. However, no extra funding would be made available to RTHK. Nothing has been mentioned in these voluminous Draft Estimates about the necessary financial provisions. 9112 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

How can RTHK cope with the increased workload in the future? Compared with last year's budget, its expenditure has only been increased by 7.6% in real terms, yet its workload has already been increased substantially. Now the Government suddenly asks RTHK to operate a television station with Chinese and English channels providing 24-hour broadcasting services, yet no additional manpower and financial provisions would be made available. How can RTHK cope with it?

In fact, I learn from the staff of RTHK that ATV has several hundred employees. Can RTHK act as the manager to take over all these employees? For the Labour Party, the most logical arrangement is to allow these programme staff to remain in employment while ensuring the continued operation of the TV station. RTHK has never been run as a business organization, and its expertise lies with providing public broadcasting services and producing high-budget TV dramas such as Below the Lion Rock. I do not recall that any game shows or general programmes have ever been produced by RTHK. Given RTHK's experience and expertise, it can hardly compete with TVB. What will happen then? TVB will further strengthen its dominance and monopolize the advertising market.

We asked the Government how long would the stop-gap measure last? If ATV really ceases operation, there is nothing the Government can do, and RTHK must take over. I then asked the Government how long this stop-gap measure would last? It turns out that the Government intends to implement the stop-gap measure until 2020, which is even beyond the term of office of the next Legislative Council. In other words, the stop-gap measure would still be in force even after incumbent Members got re-elected and served out their term of office. It is really a ridiculous arrangement. Of course, we do not agree that the Government should interfere with market operation. But when the operator of such a basic public service cannot continue operation and must close down, the Government should adopt special measures for special problems by allowing RTHK to take over all staff of ATV temporarily and contracting out the broadcasting services to these staff, so that they can continue operation with the greatest extent of freedom that is allowed under the current laws of Hong Kong. As for the next step, the free TV licence should be put up for tender as soon as possible so that a consortium or business organization with interest, commitment, money and passion can take over the broadcasting services as soon as possible. That would be the best way forward.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9113

Going back to RTHK, its future development should focus on public broadcasting services. Some of its new programmes will never be produced by a commercial broadcaster. For example, there is a new programme called Knowledge Platform, which broadcasts selected lectures directly from the lecture halls of Hong Kong's universities. Of course, the lectures are splendid. Chairman, these selected lectures are often held in the afternoon on Wednesdays or Fridays. Though I would very much like to attend these lectures, as a Member, my first and foremost duty is to attend the meetings of the Legislative Council. Hence, I cannot attend these lectures in person. If programmes like Knowledge Platform can also be broadcast on RTHK's TV stations, I think it would be highly beneficial in terms of promoting education in arts and culture. Not only would it help to promote basic education, but can also give many working persons with a certain degree of professional expertise, knowledge or education attainment the opportunity to listen to and benefit from the lectures given by renowned lecturers or visiting professors.

Chairman, it is a social responsibility for RTHK to provide public broadcasting services. While it does not compete with commercial broadcasters, it helps to set standards through its own productions. Although drama is not RTHK's speciality, its well-received series of Below the Lion Rock have gained recognition among broadcasters and viewers as an outstanding production.

Recently, the Hong Kong Film Awards sponsored by the Film Development Fund is an infamous case of a sloppy production. The coarsely-produced programme has come under severe criticisms. Instead of having these programmes produced by some sloppy production teams with casual sponsorship from the Film Development Fund, I think it would be much better for RTHK to take over the production, so that a high standard can be set by its serious and meticulous programme staff. This can in turn heighten the appreciation standard of viewers. With high-standard viewers only setting eyes on high quality and well-produced programmes, other commercial broadcasters can hardly afford to be complacent.

Chairman, I am most dissatisfied that the top official of RTHK has neither made any effort to defend RTHK's freedom of speech nor strived to uphold its status as a public service broadcaster. But I still support the production teams of RTHK. They have been working diligently to discharge their duties as journalists, and I speak on their behalf today.

9114 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): First of all, I would like to thank Dr KWOK Ka-ki and Ms Cyd HO for speaking up enthusiastically, and they even pressed the "Request to Speak" button faster than me. I would also like to call upon other Members, including democratic Members and pro-establishment Members, to speak up if they have views on certain heads. They need not worry about whether we are filibustering now and whether they will take part in filibustering when they speak.

In fact, there is no filibustering because a timetable has been set by the Chairman ― we should not say he is "cutting off the filibuster" but "tailoring the filibuster" ― he tailored the time for each debate session. Chairman, I am not going to argue with you today if your act is justified; if I have more justifications, I will apply for a judicial review. Chairman, I would like to point out that it is unreasonable for you to include the time for requesting headcounts and for ringing the summoning bell to be included in the time allocated for each debate session. In other words, the time spent on waiting for Members to return to the Chamber while the summoning bell is ringing will mean that the speaking time of other Members will be reduced, because the ringing time of the summoning bell will also be counted as part of the "proposed time limit" for each session. You have said that Members should request a headcount less often if they want to have more time to speak. Conversely, a headcount will not be needed if Members sit here obediently so that a quorum is present.

Chairman, I would like to cite an extreme example. If a Member wants to stop other Members from speaking, he only needs to repeatedly request a headcount; the estimated 103 hours will all be spent on ringing the summoning bell. This trick may be used if Members of the pro-establishment camp do not want me to speak or if I do not want other Members to speak. What will happen if the meeting is aborted due to the lack of a quorum? If the meeting is aborted, will the speaking time be reduced further? Chairman, I hope you would carefully consider the above questions. No matter what considerations you have made, you could never know when the meeting would be aborted, or you could not tell whether there would be a typhoon. Should such situation happen, will 103 hours as mentioned in the Script remain the same?

Moreover, I would like to point out that there are 21 heads without amendments in this session. Why are there 21 heads without amendments? There are two reasons: first, inappropriate administrative arrangements; second, the President's ruling is self-contradictory. Let me give a brief explanation. I raised 221 written questions at the special Finance Committee (FC) meetings, and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9115

I only received the Administration's replies to 134 questions these two days, with the Security Bureau answering 43 questions. As I have only recently received the replies, the deadline for accepting amendments as prescribed by the President had been exceeded. Is that fair to Members?

The Government had thought of limiting the number of questions to be raised by Members at the special FC meetings but had ultimately failed to do so. A reasonable approach is to handle questions that can be handled first and then handle the remaining questions quickly. But my judgment will be affected if I only receive the replies to the second batch of questions after the deadline for accepting amendments. I hope the Government will continue to have tacit agreements or discussions with the Legislative Council in the future. These two dates should be logical and the reasonable approach is that the authorities should answer all questions raised at the FC meetings before the deadline for accepting amendments.

The second point is that the President's ruling is self-contradictory, causing the removal of some amendments that should be admissible. Chairman, you ruled out 1 640 pairs of amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung because you considered that these amendments were frivolous and meaningless. That is your ruling. However, I believe that you have been self-contradictory because you stated in paragraph 19 of your ruling that two amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung have no material difference. When you gave an explanation outside the Chamber, you said that his amendments dealt with an expenditure item exceeding $100 million but the two amendments he proposed had a difference of only a few thousand dollars. I agree that if the difference is only a few dollars or a few thousand dollars or the difference in percentage is only 1% to 2%, the amendments are definitely frivolous and meaningless. Thus, the President ruled that the one slightly less in the proposed reduced amount should not be moved. Of these two amendments, only the one slightly more in the proposed reduced amount is approved.

Chairman, according to your logic, the 1 640 pairs of amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, that is 3 280 amendments ― a "pair" refers to 12 months and six months or six months and three months ― should be reduced by half, instead of throwing all amendments into the dustbin, thus some heads with amendments proposed by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung have now become heads without amendments …

(Mr NG Leung-sing signelled in his seat)

9116 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR NG LEUNG-SING (in Cantonese): Chairman, a point of order.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr NG Leung-sing, what is your point?

MR NG LEUNG-SING (in Cantonese): After listening for so long, I think this Member is not speaking on the Budget. It seems to me that he is arguing with you about your ruling and the handling of some administrative arrangements. I hope the Chairman would rule if the discussion on such issues should proceed.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please discuss the theme of this debate as soon as possible.

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I think the remarks that I have just made are absolutely relevant to the Budget, but I will not go on. This session is about the heads without amendments. I would like to point out that the reasons why there are no amendments to these 21 heads are inappropriate administrative arrangements as I have just mentioned, and the self-contradictory ruling of the President.

I will not continue to speak. I request a headcount under Rule 17(3).

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please continue

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): Chairman, I will talk about "Head 160 ― Radio Television Hong Kong". Ms Cyd HO has also talked about LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9117

Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) earlier. We love and hate RTHK: we love its front-line staff for they are very creative and courageous but we hate its management, including the SAR Government.

Before LEUNG Chun-ying took office, a newspaper revealed that he had four major political tasks, do you still remember? These tasks include legislating under Article 23 of the Basic Law, implementing national education and constitutional reform and "drying up" RTHK. Concerning the $6 billion funding application for the construction of the new RTHK Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O … The democrats asked questions at the meetings of the Panel on Information Technology and Broadcasting and they also considered the funding request insubstantial. It seemed that the Government deliberately submitted flimsy documents, so that the democrats would obstruct, and the pro-establishment camp also joined in to form the same front. They criticized that spending $6 billion on the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O was a waste of public money, and they requested the SAR Government to take the initiative to withdraw the application. This was really a very unusual incident where the royalists had not acted like royalists and the Government had not been canvassing their votes.

We should well remember that in the funding dispute concerning the Broadcasting House, RTHK staff and the management eventually reached a consensus to request for $750 million less and they intended to submit a funding application to the Legislative Council again. Unexpectedly, the Government was indifferent and the staff finally asked us how they could force the Government to submit a funding application to the Legislative Council; this was extremely unusual. Finally, the Government withdrew the application due to opposition from the pro-establishment camp. There was also a saying that if the funding application was not approved before the expiry of the tender validity period, the authorities would have to spend another two years for re-tendering and starting again from scratch.

According to Gregory SO, it was very hard to lobby Members to support the revised funding request. Since the position of the pro-establishment Members had remained almost unchanged, the Bureau decided not to push through the application. If the Government really wants to get something done, will it not try to push through? It will push through its plans again and again, despite repeated failures. Even though we are dissatisfied with RTHK, it seems not very appropriate to reduce its provision. Therefore, no amendments have 9118 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 been proposed by Members. I thought some Members would propose amendment to reduce Roy TANG's salaries, but it turns out that no one has proposed the relevant amendment.

It is most important for a public broadcaster to have no fear of political or commercial pressure. As it is now cold winter for press freedom in Hong Kong, RTHK, as a public broadcaster, plays an important role in monitoring the Government and dignitaries, promoting the development of a civil society and providing diversified programmes. Chairman, on Programme (2) Public Affairs and General Television Programme, though the financial provision will be increased from $372.4 million in 2013-2014 to $414.3 million in the coming year, I notice that the total hours of output of television programmes have reduced, which is really strange. The number of hours of acquisition programmes will be reduced from 222.3 hours to 200 hours; education programmes will be reduced from 417 hours to 411 hours; general programmes will be reduced from 337.1 hours to 321 hours; only the hours of current and public affairs programmes will be increased from 368.6 hours to 371 hours. Yet, the total hours of programming output will be reduced from 18 751.2 hours this year to 18 611 hours next year. With an additional provision, it is really odd for the total hours of programming output to be reduced; this is a cause for concern.

As funding for the establishment of 22 fill-in stations for the digital terrestrial television services of RTHK was approved by the Legislative Council earlier, RTHK's signal coverage will reach about 99% of the Hong Kong population. Moreover, as programmes have been broadcast on RTHK's three digital television channels starting from last year, people have more opportunities to watch RTHK programmes. In the coming year, RTHK will continue the preparatory work for the full launch of digital terrestrial television services by increasing the production of High Definition programmes and acquiring high quality local and overseas programmes. Therefore, in the foreseeable future, the number of television programmes produced by RTHK will definitely increase but not decrease.

It is most bizarre that when the Executive Council decided earlier this month not to renew the licence of Asia Television Limited (ATV), the expiry date of the television licence would be 1 April next year. According to Gregory SO, Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, RTHK is going to take over ATV's two analogue spectrums under ATV's domestic free television programme service licence; the Government will resume the digital spectrum LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9119 assigned to ATV and invite tenders by new free television operators. In January this year, ATV's licence renewal issue was still not at a critical stage, but ATV was "dying", just like a patient who was kept alive on the intravenous drip. At a Panel meeting in January this year, I asked Miss Susie HO, Permanent Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, if there was any contingency plan. What should be done if ATV ceased operation? A television station might stop broadcasting tomorrow, should snowflakes or a test card be shown on the screen?

Evidently, the Permanent Secretary had not made the projection and she did not have any contingency plan. At that time, I asked if RTHK programmes would be broadcast for a certain period of time as an interim measure. The Permanent Secretary said that my idea was creative, meaning that she had not considered how the case would be handled. How then could the authorities announce on 1 April that the two analogue spectrums would be taken over by RTHK? I suggested at that time that RTHK programmes could be temporarily broadcast for a few months; meanwhile tenders for the spectrums by interested local companies or commercial organizations could be invited. According to the present arrangement, RTHK programmes will not be broadcast temporarily as a stop-gap measure, but they will be broadcast until the analogue switch-off. What kind of logic and reason is that?

When RTHK staff were being interviewed later, they indicated that they were not psychologically prepared. Since they knew nothing about the arrangement, they could not really make any preparation. Who made this decision? After listening for so long, I still have not got the answer. Was it Gregory SO or the Chief Executive-in-Council? Had Miss Susie HO, the Permanent Secretary, been enlightened by my question, such that she decided not to temporarily broadcast RTHK programmes but to broadcast RTHK programmes until the analogue switch-off, so as to save the trouble? Many Members have commented that the arrangement concerning RTHK will give rise to a lot of problems but I do not have enough time to speak on it in this session. Let me make additional remarks in the next session.

MS CLAUDIA MO (in Cantonese): Chairman, as you have once said, "staging a filibuster" or "cutting off a filibuster" was a political decision. Carrie LAM also said this morning that the question of whether the constitutional reform package could be improved in the future would be handled by the then Chief Executive in accordance with the actual situation prevailing at that time. Chairman, considering the way you have dealt with the amendments this time, you are 9120 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 basically asking us to "pocket it first". Although you have not said so, that is what you mean and you are just being courteous. Anyway, we have to "pocket it first", because your power to preside over meetings is stipulated by the Basic Law, and such power is infinitely enormous, which empowers you to do whatever you like. You have now asked us to swallow your decision, but I hope you will act impartially.

You ruled that Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung's 3 280 amendments were inadmissible and said that they were in pairs. If you did not accept amendments which were in pairs, you should have accepted the stand-alone amendments, but you have not given specific explanation. Forget about it! Basically, the entire Legislative Council has become a non-independent institution which exists only to support the administration of the Government. Chairman, I am not sure if any pressure has been exerted on you, and I will speculate no more. Let me talk about the problem of Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) now. Some people think that there was no problem with RTHK before 1997 and problems only arose after 1997. They are wrong. I have been a frequent visitor of RTHK since 1987 and I know that even during the British colonial times, some senior public officials already said, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". In their view, an institution operated with public funds should be subservient and should not betray the one who provided it with money.

At present, while Members of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong still adopted the mentality of the colonial times, the public has gradually understood what a public broadcaster is. That is something which Gregory SO still does not understand. He thinks that RTHK is a public broadcaster as it is funded by the Government; therefore it is only a public institution and a government department. He thinks that it is a public broadcaster because it operates with public funds. As a public broadcaster, it has no pressure of having to get advertisements; it does not have to worry about the withdrawal of property advertisements for more than six months, resulted in substantial loss amounting to tens of millions of dollars; and it does not have to worry about being subjected to political interference. But RTHK is a freak now. I have witnessed its change from 1987 until now. Certainly, the front-line staff members, especially those in the Newsroom of RTHK, are subjected to the greatest pressure. The situation is similar to cooking a frog in warm water. In fact, the warning signs are posted everywhere in RTHK and people know what is happening.

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A public broadcaster is actually a national broadcaster and what is the point of calling it a public broadcaster? China Central Television (CCTV) is public-funded and its operation is funded by the State. RTHK's role, however, has been increasingly messed up. The latest financial provision allocated to RTHK in this Budget is $800 million, and the previous provisions were $500 million and $600 million respectively. Earlier, people worried that RTHK would be "dried up" because the increase in its financial provision could not catch up with the inflation rate and thus making operation difficult. Now that the provision is $800 million, are people very happy about it? Initially, I thought RTHK should get more funding as its workload has increased, but regrettably, we can only reduce and not increase the financial provision in our amendments to the Bill.

Earlier, some Members have criticized the management of RTHK, including Roy TANG. Roy TANG was an Administrative Officer and on the day he assumed office, some RTHK staff members and I welcomed him with a black carpet. Although he has now kept a rather low profile, it does not mean there is no problem at all with RTHK. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen and I thought that other Members would propose amendment to reduce Roy TANG's salaries and so we have not done so. At present, the financial provision for RTHK is $800 million, but Members have to bear in mind that this amount also includes the provision for radio programme services. While RTHK is the biggest broadcaster, it does not have its own television channel. Although there is Channel 31 which is a digital television channel, not many people have watched its programmes. Digital television service has not been provided to the public free of charge, has it? Anyway, the service is not generally available.

Recently, something strange happened, but the Chairman did not allow me to ask an urgent question about the Asia Television Limited (ATV) incident. The Government suddenly announced that ATV's licence would not be renewed upon its expiry in April next year, what should be done then? The Government proposes that RTHK should take over the two analogue channels. That is indeed empty talk. Since RTHK does not have the manpower, money, equipment and transmission station, what can it do? No one knows and we have to wait and see.

Mr IP Ka-po of ATV has kept on saying that ATV might not be able to operate until the end of next month. At first, he said ATV could operate until 9122 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

August, but recently he said that ATV might not be able to operate until the end of May. Yet, Chairman, you said that my proposed urgent question on this matter was based on speculation only. Tell me, how can RTHK take over ATV? Once ATV closes down, what should be done? This awful mess is solely created by the Government and nothing can be done about it. Something that has gone too "red" will perish. ATV initially thought that it could become the most pro-Communist television broadcaster in Hong Kong, but it has to close down in the end. As a matter of fact, we do have public opinion in Hong Kong. It does not matter if RTHK does not have adequate funds now, additional funding can be provided in the future. With additional funding, RTHK can recruit staff and purchase the necessary equipment, and the Government can even provide the funding for RTHK to acquire the transmission stations from ATV, but I do not know what procedures would be involved. What if ATV demands an exorbitant price? What is the market price? When was the last transaction of transmission stations? I do not know. The Director of Bureau wanted RTHK to take over ATV; it turns out that $3 billion-plus is needed to take over a television broadcaster, as quoted by Mr Ricky WONG. According to the news yesterday, the price quoted by David CHIU and others in their application for a domestic free television programme service licence is also more than $3 billion. At present, RTHK only has $800 million and it has to provide radio programme services and television programme services. Furthermore, approval has not been given to construct the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O. This matter is also very strange. The Government proposed the project, but it couldn't care less. Then, out of the blue, some pro-establishment Members stepped forward and raised their views with much fanfare. I remember it should be Mr Christopher CHUNG who said that since constructing the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O would cost $6 billion and Ricky WONG only had $3 billion, he asked Ricky to knock it off. How should we calculate the amount needed?

Considering RTHK's outward appearance (let us not talk about its inner qualities for the time being), it is so dilapidated that it looks like something in the Stone Age. If you have participated in the television programmes of RTHK, you may have used one of its toilets on the basement level. You would be stunned by the stench, wondering what has happened. Why would the Government let the so-called public broadcaster turn into something that is neither fish nor fowl? Members should remember that RTHK initially found the SAR Government unacceptable. TUNG Chee-hwa said the programme Headliner was sinister. When people asked him how he would deal with RTHK, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9123 his answer was "take it slowly". In fact, as a Shanghainese, I accepted his answer because elderly Shanghainese people would often "take it slowly" (in Shanghainese). I think TUNG Chee-hwa did not say those words with any ill intent, but the message received by the people was that he would definitely "dry up" RTHK.

In Donald TSANG's era, it was more than "drying up" RTHK? Do Members remember that particular report? It was purported to be an independent report about the way forward for public service broadcasting in Hong Kong and it recommended to end RTHK's operation, that is, to close it down. The initial plan was to close down RTHK, but then the Save RTHK Campaign was launched. The voices of the people were very loud and the then Director of Broadcasting stood firm and was willing to stand up for RTHK. He joined staff members to tie red ribbons outside the RTHK building to appeal for support of RTHK. But today, RTHK is headed by an Administrative Officer surnamed TANG. After the incident of putting empty chairs at the City Forum, TANG denounced such outrageous act and demanded for reports. Those who came clean would be treated with leniency. Later, some producers thought of creating an interesting gag with the character Hitler. That was bad, as they had to give an account of how they came up with the idea. These scenes were even more terrible than those depicted in George ORWELL's 1984. What has been going on?

In the final analysis, the Government had tried to uproot RTHK. The abovementioned report used words such as "start from clean slate", but since the Government could not eliminate RTHK because of strong repercussions in society at the time, it left the matter as it was. You may wonder why the Government proposed to construct the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O? The reason is that RTHK had put forward the proposal for more than 10 years and as the Government could delay no more, it handled the matter sloppily by submitting the proposal to the Legislative Council as a matter of formality, knowing that the proposal would certainly not be passed. But the Government did not expect ATV would come to this pass and it decided to use RTHK as a political tool. That is actually a common practice of the Government. It is common for LEUNG Chun-ying's Government to treat all institutions under its purview, for example, the Innovation and Technology Bureau, as "LEUNG's fans club". Fanny LAW made it clear that the Bureau would recruit people on their side. What was wrong to benefit people on their side? Naturally, people who are their friends and would work with them would be recruited.

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But Chairman, talking about vision, RTHK is a public broadcaster, funded by taxpayers' money. The Government does not belong to one person, and every one of us has made contribution as we all pay tax. This public broadcaster may be reduced to a public-funded broadcaster any time now. The Government denied it has interfered and the plan for RTHK to take over ATV was only a stop-gap arrangement in response to ATV's sudden changes. In that case, RTHK would be like a convenience store which provides temporary services only. Gregory SO was surprisingly frank in saying that he did not expect RTHK to produce any news programme, but which public broadcaster in the world does not produce news programmes? He is ludicrous and he has brought shame to Hong Kong in the international world by being so candid.

Certainly, if the Government asks RTHK to take up a certain task, RTHK does not have a choice because it is a government department. RTHK is actually the strangest body in the government structure. If the Government asks the Water Supplies Department or the Inland Revenue Department to take up certain tasks, they will not refuse, will they? They will simply do as told. However, the Government requires RTHK to follow its political orders on the one hand, and then asks it to compete in the free commercial market with Television Broadcasts Limited on the other. If the Government said that RTHK would not engage in any competition, then RTHK would not be performing its assigned role properly. A broadcaster holding a domestic free television programme service licence will operate in the commercial market. The market will separate the wheat from the chaff and the audience rating determines which player will survive. The principle of survival of the fittest surely applies. However, the survival of a public broadcaster should not be affected by these factors. Actually, the thinking of the Government has been distorted to an unbelievable level. It has put its whole heart into making RTHK become a public-funded broadcaster like CCTV. I only want to remind the Government that something that has gone too "red" will perish, and it should definitely not proceed with this plan.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, this is the first debate in the Committee stage of the Appropriation Bill 2015. As a legislator, a representative of the public and an elected Member, I will follow the rule and speak.

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As the annual debate on the Appropriate Bill is the most important debate on public policies, in theory each Member should speak on various aspects according to the debate procedure set down by the Chairman. However, it is a shame that most Members seem to have been struck dumb. The democratic camp even worked out an attendance roster with the pro-establishment camp to avoid the meeting being aborted. What is to be afraid of? Our Honourable Chairman is so calm and dignified. He has everything planned out. As long as he is present, how can there be any filibustering? That is why Mr WONG Kwok-hing needs not practise Chinese calligraphy here and he has already left the Chamber. Is anyone going to filibuster? As described by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, the Chairman has set the schedule of the meeting. How can Members engage in filibustering? The Chairman calls the shots. He decides what is to be debated in the first session, the number of sessions, as well as the total number of hours for debate. We will call it a day after delivering the speeches. The speaking time will be deducted for every quorum call, right? Members are not allowed to speak whatever they like, which is another way to cut off the filibuster.

The last part of the debate is voting. Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung has proposed over 3 000 amendments. If the voting on each amendment takes one and a half minutes, wouldn't it take 10-odd days to finish the voting procedure? To prevent him suffering from haemorrhoids, that should not be allowed, right? For the sake of his health, the bell will be rung for one minute or so, so that he and "Brother Elephant" will not have enough time to rush out to smoke. Again the Chairman solves the problem for him. He truly cares about Mr LEUNG's health. He does not want Mr LEUNG to get haemorrhoids and smoke too much, right? For whatever reasons, he removes over 3 000 amendments. The Chairman has everything planned out and properly executed.

I wish to tell you all ― do not say that I deviate from the subject ― as a legislator, every Member should express their views on different areas of the public policies in this debate. For example, the first debate covers 20-odd heads of expenditure. I am well prepared and have gathered all necessary information. In one part of my speech, I will talk about the Department of Health, the Judiciary, the Legal Aid Department, so on and so forth. At least three parts of my speech will be on Radio Television Hong Kong. Let me see how other Members speak. That should not be called filibustering. All my speeches have substance. Here I wish to tell all people in Hong Kong via live television broadcast that as long as the Chairman, Mr Jasper TSANG, is present, there will 9126 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 be no filibustering. Members' freedom of speech … Back in 2012, we proposed a few thousand amendments to the Legislative Council (Amendment) Bill in an attempt to prevent its passage. But our Honourable Chairman, with a swish of the scissors, cut off all the amendments. From then on he got addicted. I am telling you, power corrupts, especially in the case of the Chairman who is so fond of abusing this kind of power. Of course, the Chairman is well aware that this bunch of "sworn brothers" would not speak … I am sorry; I should not call them "sworn brothers". I will call them "KT" … these "KTs" will not speak. Even if only WONG Yuk-man speaks, the time should be enough, right? Your freedom of speech is not restricted but theirs is. Next I will provoke them into speaking by berating everyone. It would be nice if they respond.

Chairman, sometimes things would go overboard, wouldn't they? It is very obvious now. Those who like to put a cross on their chest have left without speaking. There is nothing I can do …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, please speak on the theme of the first debate.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, you have been quite nice as you have put up with me for four minutes. But I have substance in my speech. You can do nothing about me, for I am a tough case to crack. All right, I will begin to speak now.

I will now talk about "Head 37 ― Department of Health". According to the Director of Audit's report (the Audit Report) published in November last year, Elderly Health Centres (EHCs) of the Department of Health (DH) had insufficient capacity and they provided less than 40 000 health assessments a year to the elderly. In the past year, elderly people had to wait for 18.2 months on average before getting this service. At that rate, it will take over seven years for five EHCs to clear their backlogs of first-time health assessments whereas the waiting time for services at EHCs in Yau Ma Tei and Wan Chai is 9.6 years. The Chairman may not be aware of this. Although the Chairman is also a senior citizen, he needs not go to EHCs because he has money and can pay for health assessment with his medical insurance. However, the grass-roots elderly have to go to EHCs for health assessment by the medical staff, doctors and nurses. If someone is so unfortunate as to suffer from cancer, he has to be hospitalized for LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9127 treatment. However, the waiting time for a health assessment is 9.6 years. Buddy, what is the use of allocating so much money to the DH? Well, after an elderly person finally receives a health assessment and finds that he has cancer, he will go to a public hospital for treatment, right? But then he is told that he can only be prescribed with certain drugs, but not all the drugs. Although a particular target therapy drug can treat his illness, it cannot be prescribed to him as each dose costs over $10,000. Then, this elderly man would say, do not prescribe this drug, which costs over $10,000, to me. Instead, give the $10,000 to me, just let me spend the money and die. The poor performance of EHCs exerts great pressure on another area of the healthcare system.

The Audit Report clearly states that the Audit Commission looks at the issues simply from a value-for-money perspective. Many people have no idea about the plight of the elderly. Chairman, you are also an elected Member and you do visit your constituency, don't you? Our work at present … I have two offices and I operate a "WONG Yuk-man, friend of the elderly" Scheme in each office. As I have said before, even if I am no longer a Member in future, I will continue to provide elderly services in Hung Hom and Sham Shui Po. We provide eye examinations for the elderly as such examinations cost money. If they are found to have cataracts, they may have to wait for three to five years before they can receive an operation. They are not as lucky as the Chairman and I for we can pay Dr LAM Shun-chiu for treatment. When the elderly people finally get their turn to be treated, they may already be blind. Besides, elderly people do not normally have their eyes checked. They would think that as they get old, it is natural for them to have impaired eyesight and hearing. It is just normal for a person in his seventies not to see clearly; so they may as well not bother to do anything about it. This idea is of course wrong. If their problems can be detected early, they can have an operation. Once the problems are detected, the operation should be performed as soon as possible. But now they have to wait for three to five years to receive the operation. Hence, every year we sponsor 10-odd "old pals" to receive cataract operation. We provide these district-based services to make up for the inadequacies of the government services. Chairman, can you see how important EHCs are? Do you think the DH has neglected its duties?

Moreover, among some 5 000 healthcare voucher claims made by 15 healthcare service providers, it was found that 640 claims have errors and omissions, which include missing witness information, missing signature of the elderly and requesting an elderly to sign excessive consent forms. Six suspected 9128 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 false claims had been turned over to the Police for investigation. This is the report prepared by the Public Accounts Committee of the Legislative Council. It was mainly written by the Secretariat but I had also made some contributions. We had held closed door discussions. When we heard about the errors/omissions committed by the DH in relation to the administration of EHCs, we were just infuriated. I will only talk about one thing. The amount of the elderly healthcare voucher is now raised to $2,000, which is described as a virtuous policy. But, Chairman, what has gone wrong? Let me tell you some statistics about the administration of the Elderly Health Care Voucher Scheme (Scheme) and you will see how ridiculous it is.

In respect of the DH's administration of the Scheme, there are many problems related to the participation of private service providers and the use of vouchers by the elderly. For instance, there is a keen demand among the elderly for services provided by medical practitioners and Chinese medicine practitioners enrolled in the Scheme and their services accounted for 93% of the voucher claims. That said, the enrolment rates of medical practitioners and Chinese medicine practitioners among all private healthcare service providers in the private practice were only 34% and 23% respectively. Aren't such differences ridiculous?

Second, the elderly will be discouraged to use the vouchers if the private healthcare service providers in their residential district have not enrolled in the Scheme. Increasing the amount of the voucher is of no avail as elderly people will just go to any private clinic when they are sick and the consultation fee for influenza alone is a few hundred dollars. As at December 2013, nearly 75% (or 415 000) of the enrolled elderly had vouchers which remained unused, of which 10% (40 000-odd) of them had never used any of the vouchers issued to them. Why? Was it because they never fell ill? No. As I just said, it was due to the huge gap between the number of enrolled healthcare services providers and that of enrolled elderly. The value of unused vouchers of the 415 000 elderly amounted to $491 million, which runs contrary to the principle of value for money. Of course, I will not use this document in hand to filibuster. I just want to know if any Member will speak on this issue.

I have pointed out some salient points. The aforesaid inadequacies prove that the DH is in serious shortage of manpower, both administrative staff and medical personnel, and thus cannot cope with the tremendous amount of detailed and complicated work. While the Budget forecasts an increasing number of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9129 enrolment in EHCs this year, it has not provided funds to significantly increase the manpower for the relevant work. Chairman, on the other hand, the Government has allocated an additional $240 million to increase the expenditure on the vouchers. How much work will be involved in processing the voucher claims? The Audit Report had clearly stated the problem, the Public Accounts Committee had held meetings and public hearings, and we had also raised the problem to the DH. From all the information gathered, we all know where the problem lies and that is obvious. However, the Budget has not proposed to significantly increase the manpower to handle the relevant work.

We all understand that in the face of an ageing population and a huge wealth discrepancy, the demand for elderly healthcare services in the public sector will continue to increase. The situation in the next decade will very likely be graver than what is revealed by the Audit Commission today. I always denounce Matthew CHEUNG for the lack of residential care places for the elderly. Every year some 5 700 elderly people go to Heaven while waiting for a place in the subsidized homes for the aged or nursing homes, and the number of such people will at least exceed 6 000 next year. It is easier to go to Heaven than getting a subsidized residential care place on earth. Fortunately, you and I need not wait for this kind of service. Are we not blessed? But what about those people who are on the waiting list? They have no one to take care of them at home and most of them are sick as well.

The Government keeps saying that there will be a structural deficit in the next 10 years owing to an ageing population, but the actual situation is that its manpower and resource allocation are not value for money, buddy. As I always say, one is "reluctant to spend money on good causes, yet willing to waste it", right?

Moreover, the DH's regulation and inspection of private hospitals are also of great concern to us. Over the past six years, the DH received at least 43 complaints involving the fees charged by private hospitals and 35% of the complainants were dissatisfied that they were not informed of the fees beforehand. Of the complaints against private hospitals received by the Consumer Council for the same period, about 60% also involved overcharging. Some people were dissatisfied that the actual amount they had to pay when they were discharged was different from the package charge. The DH is duty-bound to inspect these private hospitals.

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When the last Audit Report was published, I was a member of the Public Accounts Committee. At that time, we also discussed the problems about private hospitals and the dereliction of duty of the DH regarding the regulation and inspection of private hospitals. A relevant ordinance has long been enacted and there is also the Code of Practice for Private Hospitals, Nursing Homes and Maternity Homes, under which many requirements have been stipulated. But does the DH have sufficient manpower to monitor the private hospitals? It is stipulated that these hospitals should display at the admission office and cashier a schedule of charges with respect to room charges, investigative and treatment procedures, medical supplies and any charges that will be levied and make it available for patients' reference. Hospitals are also required to explain to patients how various charges are levied, but many private hospitals have not complied with the Code of Practice. Regarding this, the DH is to blame. The DH has at most issued advisory or warning letters demanding the hospitals concerned to make improvements. But disputes continue to arise. What is the reason? It is because the DH does not have insufficient manpower to inspect these hospitals.

Perhaps the DH should carry out covert operations, like the covert operation conducted in respect of the second phase of the levy scheme on plastic shopping bags. Some people, disguised as customers, ask for plastic bags while shopping in the market, and if shopkeepers give out plastic bags, they will be caught red-handed. The Government is actually creating white terror, telling people that covert operations will be carried out anytime. Have you ever heard of a government stating openly about covert operations? We have very often heard of cases in which police officers carrying out covert operations against "one-woman brothels" enjoyed free service; but now even the Environment Bureau also threatens the public with covert operations, so as to curb using excessive plastic bags by way of a levy. This is downright absurd.

Chairman, I speak fast and my speech is full of substance. My speaking time is up. I have not even talked about half of the problems concerning the DH. Am I filibustering? Of course not. Buddy, I am not talking about trivial matters. Some of the issues you may not even have heard before. Chairman, I am done for now. Till next time.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, point of order. I request to invoke Rule 17(2) of the Rule of Procedures to summon Members back to the Chamber.

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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Ms Cyd HO, please speak.

MS CYD HO (in Cantonese): Chairman, not many public officers concerned attend the meeting today and only the Secretary for Education is now present. I am afraid that no officials will respond to our previous speeches concerning Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK). I wish to clarify with Mr CHAN Chi-chuen about the figures mentioned by him just now, which I think I should point out to set the record straight.

Earlier, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen mentioned the hours of output for acquisition, educational, general as well as public and current affairs sections under Programme (2) of RTHK. He compared the budgets for 2015-2016 and 2014-2015, pointing out that most sections have shown a slight decline in their hours of output. For instance, the hours of output for educational programmes will be reduced from 417 to 411 while those for general programmes will be reduced from 337 to 321. Nonetheless, I really want to ask Mr CHAN Chi-chuen to take a look at the figures for 2013-2014. In my earlier speech, I have made a comparison of the figures between 2013-2014 and 2015-2016. I would like to repeat once again that the hours transmitted have been increased from 8 364.1 in 2013-2014 to 18 611 in 2015-2016, although it cannot be compared with the 18 751 hours in 2014-2015. I wish to set the record straight for it will be fairer to RTHK staff.

Next, I will speak on an issue that has drawn relatively little attention and on which very few Members will raise comment, that is, the funding for The Legislative Council Commission (the Commission). Chairman, as you cannot speak at the meeting and I am afraid other Commission members may not speak on this item, I earnestly want to talk about the provision for the Commission in this session. Over the years, staff of the Legislative Council Secretariat have been working late into the night because they have to cope with the heavy workload with limited manpower. Today I wish to record my views on the Hansard so that I can express my appreciation to the Secretariat staff, and only by doing so can they be treated fairly.

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The budget of the Commission this year stands at $758.6 million which sounds a bit alarming, and the actual rate of increase is quite notable when compared with the previous budgets, with some programmes (such as Members' Offices and Remuneration) even recorded an increase of 8.2%. However, this represents a structural increase in provision only, the situation of other programmes such as Council Business Services is so pitiful that its budget will only increase 1.1% as compared to last year; the situation of Legal Services is even more miserable as its budget, despite an increase of 11% against the original budget, has recorded a reduction of 0.2%. Staff members of various divisions have in fact done quite a lot of work.

Chairman, as an institution with a unique constitutional status, the Legislative Council should be independent of the executive authorities in performing its responsibility of monitoring the Government, as in the case of the Judiciary and RTHK. For this reason, we should guarantee a provision of a steady and sufficient source of funding, so that these institutions, which are responsible for monitoring the Government, will be able to fulfil their constitutional duties.

Unfortunately, however, since I become a member of the Commission, whenever I read papers seeking financial provisions, I can see that the workload has been ever increasing and that the Commission has to argue with the Financial Services and Treasury Bureau on the allocation of resources every year. On one occasion, we could only get an informal undertaking during an informal meal gathering. In fact, the Government can really "turn off the water tap" and refuse to provide sufficient resources to the Legislative Council. In this case, the Legislative Council can hardly monitor the Government effectively, and the Secretariat staff will all be exhausted.

Take the questions on the Estimates of Expenditure as an example. With an increase in the number of Members from 60 to 70, and coupled with the fact that the public have higher demand and expectation of Members and have become increasing concerned about politics, the number of questions raised by Members has increased considerably. The Chief Secretary for Administration remarked that the Civil Service, though having an establishment of over 100 000 people, did not have sufficient time to answer Members' questions, but how many staff members are there in the Secretariat's Council Business Divisions? And how many of them are responsible for the work of the Finance Committee? The several thousand questions are all handled by them without a corresponding LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9133 increase in manpower. While the Government has been grumbling and requested to limit the number of questions raised by this Council to about 4 000 so that replies can be submitted on time, we have yet to receive all of the replies up till today.

The Secretariat staff are also subject to time constraint with their work. While Members have to submit the questions within one week after the Budget is announced, Secretariat staff have to forward those questions to government departments immediately. With such a small workforce to deal with so much work for all 70 Members, I really think that Hong Kong people should be thankful to the Secretariat staff.

The Government also indicated that since 2011, there has been a substantial increase of 16% in the number of staff of the Legislative Council Secretariat, which is well in excess of the inflation rate. Yet, it did not mention how much floor area that the Legislative Council Complex has increased. No matter how hard we save the energy, the annual tariff expenditure will be some $1.3 million. The number of security personnel has been increased to cope with the demand. In the past when the floor area of the old Legislative Council Building was much smaller, we had a total of 33 security staff. Now the floor area of the new Complex has increased by countless times, the number of security staff has only been increased to nearly 100. Under extraordinary circumstances, the LCC has to spend more than $400,000 to engage external security services.

As a matter of fact, we are extremely thrifty and we do try to achieve greater economy in various areas ― more or less the same as RTHK ― but the workload has increased at a double-digit rate and we have also provided certain new services. For instance, the Legislative Council started to provide sign language interpretation services more than a year ago to facilitate the hearing impaired to watch our meetings. Putonghua interpretation is also a new service. In 2012-2013, the Secretariat only provided a total of 88 hours of Putonghua interpretation services but the number of hours of this service is expected to increase to 2 050 in 2014-2015. All these services require money but the Government has, regrettably, imposed various hindrances to the creation or provision of new posts or services by the Secretariat.

Let me read out some figures to dispel the doubts of many people that the Legislative Council has achieved nothing over these years. I have to put these figures on record in order to state the fact. With regard to Council Business 9134 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Services, 686 committee meetings were serviced last year (that is 2013-2014), and the number of such meetings is expected to be increased to 756 in 2014-2015; the pages of bills scrutinized and processed ― all bills really require an in-depth study ― have been increased from 692 in 2012-2013 to 1 757 in 2013-2014. Chairman, all such bills have to be scrutinized, and even though Members do not scrutinize them, legal advisers and Secretariat staff have to do so. They work in the front line and it is necessary for them to scrutinize every single bill in great detail.

While members of the public may find some Members filibustering at meetings of the Finance Committee, they may in fact refer to the following figures: 122 financial proposals were scrutinized in 2012-2013 and the corresponding figure is 120 in 2013-2014, a mere decrease of two proposals; and the number of such proposals is expected to increase to 153 in 2014-2015. Though we have launched a non-cooperation movement, we only adopt an unco-operative attitude towards those policies that fail to forge a consensus or go against the principle of justice. We will veto those projects that should be negatived, such as the Liantang project which has yet to reach a consensus. For funding applications that should not be negatived, we will definitely find out all the facts from the Government.

Regarding the search tasks conducted, the number has increased from 25 in 2012-2013 to 30 in 2014-2015. The growth rate was even more remarkable last year with the search tasks conducted standing at 46, almost double the figure in 2012-2013. I hope Mr CHAN Chi-chuen will not say that the search tasks conducted has reduced from 46 in the previous year to 30 this year. In fact, the situation this year has somewhat resumed normal while the growth rate of last year was too alarming.

On legal services, colleagues of the Legal Services Division are working really hard, the pages of legislation and other instruments scrutinized have been increased from 6 981 in 2012-2013 to 8 009 in 2014-2015; and the pages of amendments to legislation and other instruments scrutinized have even increased from 1 532 in 2012-2013 to 3 181 in 2014-2015.

Chairman, in fact the income of legal professionals in Hong Kong is in general pretty high, particularly so for legal professionals in private practice. Even for those legal professionals working in commercial enterprises, their income is so high that they should be among the top 5% of salary earners in Hong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9135

Kong. However, in this Legislative Council which is a public organization, the remuneration of staff working as legal advisers is way behind their counterparts in the profession, albeit it is still on the high side when compared with that of the general public of Hong Kong. For those staff members who are willing to work as legal advisers in the Legislative Council, I understand that they all aspire to serve Hong Kong. As such, I wish to express my heartfelt thanks to them on behalf of Hong Kong people. In the coming year when the overall budget will be reduced by 0.2%, we even ask them to do more work.

Moreover, Chairman, I would like to talk about the issue of value for money. The Legislative Council Library is in fact really impressive, in particular the Constitutional Library. I wish to tell Hong Kong people that many information in the programme "Decryption of the Hong Kong issue: Thirty years after the signing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration" produced by Cable TV was found in the Legislative Council Library. Someday when I retire, I will often visit the Legislative Council Library with a visitor pass to read books. It is a pity that the number of people using our library services is relatively low when compared with the resources put into the library. I appeal to Members of this Council to promote our library services so that the resources will be used more efficiently.

Another treasure in the library is the Hansard. We have kept the Hansard since the Second World War. I have planned to mention Members' speeches on places of public entertainment delivered in 1951, and those materials were actually found in the Hansard. If you read those Hansard in detail, you will find out how a number of obsolete and unreasonable ordinances were passed sloppily under the executive-led approach. Given the enormous resources spent on keeping previous documents or items and on establishing such a superb library but the usage rate is so low, we should make more efforts on promoting the service so that the resources spent will be used more efficiently.

Lastly, I would like to say something about another constitutional problem. In announcing this year's Budget, the Government has launched another form of RAE but the approach is very despicable. Every Policy Bureau and department has to reduce their expenditure by 1.6%, and the savings so generated will be pumped into the "fiscal reservoir" for other departments and Policy Bureaux to compete for such resources. The Legislative Council has its constitutional responsibilities, and so does the Judiciary. Should we contribute our savings for bidding by the Hong Kong Tourism Board or the Hong Kong Trade Development 9136 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Council? Is this a desirable approach? In the past, the Financial Secretary would allocate new money, but now new money can only be made available through this means. I regard this approach totally unacceptable.

There were some exchanges between the Commission and Permanent Secretary Miss Elizabeth TSE, yet the latter made no commitment in her replies to the Commission, which I consider outrageous. She indicated that she understood the situation of the Commission and believed that the Government would not re-allocate our 1.6% savings to other departments, yet she was reluctant to make an undertaking, saying that it was not possible to ask the Financial Secretary to make a pledge in a resolute manner. What does it mean? In fact, such a practice by the Government will affect our discharge of the constitutional duty to monitor the Government. Chairman, may I ask you to act on behalf of the Commission to bargain with the executive authorities with an intransigent attitude. Thank you, Chairman.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, I wish to invoke Rule 17(2) of the Rules of Procedure to summon Members back to the Chamber.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please continue.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, the practice of filibustering has been adopted for three years, and as I recall, before we engaged in filibustering, I had asked you a question which had remained unanswered. In the old Chamber, I asked you if you were a member of the Communist Party of China (CPC). However, you sidetracked the question and said the CPC was no longer popular. Chairman, you are pretty smart, but your recent behavior has implicitly told me that you are a CPC member. Why? Because "the CPC is LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9137 like the moon, on different days, it changes" and this is a direct satire on the lyrics of the song The East is Red, which goes "The Communist Party is like the sun, wherever it shines, it is bright."

Chairman, I am a reasonable man (Laughter) because I have always spent money to file a lawsuit against your ruling and I also send protest letters to you. As you have pointed out in your ruling, only a couple of Members have responded to your …

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): Chairman, a point of order. The remark presently made by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung does not fall within the scope of discussion described by you.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): This is the first time Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung speaks in this session. Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please save your jokes for other occasions and get to the point expeditiously.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I will apply for a judicial review against you. Mr NG Leung-sing, however, has also used foul language and I have thought of repeating what he said.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please get to the point right away.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Mr NG Leung-sing shouted obscenities at this Council, but I guess he was not shouting at me because he was facing the Chairman.

Very simply, Honourable Members from the pro-establishment camp, "Thy mate is like a savage wolf prowling among the hills; His wish once gratified a haughty spirit his heart fills"1. When we think we are on cloud nine, we have actually fallen into a trap. As I have said time and again, I did not come to this Council to win over a flock of wolves, but to prove that this is a wolf's den, an unjust place.

1 9138 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Today, Mrs Carrie LAM is going to promote the constitutional reform package in Mei Foo. I will remain here in this Council, so people watching television should immediately go to Mei Foo to "welcome" Carrie LAM and show her the power of the people.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please speak on the theme of the first debate session right away.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Another point is, wherever the CPC exists, we should speak in the CPC way in order to get the message across. This is why my attitude is … Members should not shout as the ghost of that man is very powerful … "We should be modest and prudent, guard against arrogance and rashness, and serve the Chinese people heart and soul."2 This is my attitude. Do Members think that they can harass me with their sniggers?

I also hope that Members who earnestly want to monitor the Government will not feel upset that the filibuster will be cut off. Instead, we should foster a spirit. Let me quote from MAO Zedong: "In times of difficulty, we must not lose sight of our achievements; must see the bright future and must pluck up our courage."3

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I still have not heard you speak on the theme of this debate.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, there is another quotation which you may find useful, and that is, "We should oppose whatever the enemy supports and support whatever the enemy opposes."4

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, if you still do not get to the point, I will stop you from speaking.

2 3 ditto 4 The quotation from MAO Zedong should be "We should support whatever the enemy opposes and oppose whatever the enemy supports." LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9139

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Take a look at Mr Christopher CHEUNG. Buddy …

(Some Members spoke loudly in their seats)

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Members please do not speak in your seats.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Members sitting on that side do not understand, including those brought up by the communists.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, I will not warn you again. If you still do not speak on the theme of the present debate, I will stop you from speaking.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I get it. Although Mr Christopher CHEUNG also spoke in his seat, you did not warn him. Chairman, as I will seek judicial review against you, I will say no more. Don't think I have no money. I will raise money to take the case to court.

Let me talk about a very simple question raised by Mr WONG Yuk-man, who will speak after me. Chairman, you said he made irresponsible remarks, but look at the books in front of him. The first issue is healthcare. Has the Department of Health (DH) performed its duties? I met Secretary Dr KO Wing-man outside the Chamber the day before yesterday. Since you preside at this debate, you should also remember that under the "mandatory medical fund", $50 billion has been earmarked for launching the Health Protection Scheme (HPS). And, as I have pointed out, this sum of money has been "frozen" and transferred to the Universal Retirement Protection Fund. This is probably the case; after all, the money is being transferred from one pocket to another.

I wonder if the Universal Retirement Protection Fund will be "frozen". According to Mr CHAN Kin-por, who always chides me, the HPS is a very bad idea in that it has failed to develop a product that goes between the market and the Government, so that Hong Kong people can take out health insurance outside the public healthcare sector from their own pocket. The National Health Service 9140 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 that we modelled on has collapsed and as Yuk-man has said, patients diagnosed with cataract may only receive treatment after they go blind. The Drug Formulary has deprived people who cannot afford to buy certain medicine of medical treatment that should be covered by health insurance in a well-off society, and one example is the target therapy drugs. My office has been filled with grudges …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, how does your speech relate to the DH?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): It has not dutifully performed its role in advising the Secretary, and this is covered under the head on health.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Which head are you speaking on?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Please hold on. It is 37 … Someone asked me to request a headcount. Chairman, it is not right to interrupt a Member who is speaking. I will forgive him this time, but I will slap on his face the next time. Let me tell you, what happened in Taiwan will soon take place here …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please speak on the theme of this debate. Other Members should not shout in their seats.

Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung, please do not stray from the question.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Okay. Actually, you should not make such a ruling. Mr WONG Yuk-man made an eloquent speech just now, and I am speaking after him …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The speech made by Mr WONG Yuk-man just now is about his views on the services of the DH. Since you said that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9141

Mr WONG Yuk-man has brought a few books with him, I suggest that you should borrow some of his books and read them carefully, and prepare your speech in a way as serious as Mr WONG Yuk-man.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, you do not get it. Books are just a record of thoughts. Do you think books can represent the thoughts of human beings? If there is anything wrong with me, you can simply point it out while I am speaking, right? Even if you want me to read more …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, do you still want to speak on the services of the DH?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Am I not speaking? Very simply … Yes. What I want to say is that since many elderly people or members of the public find the conventional healthcare system deficient, they wish to take out alternative insurance. I wonder if Members are aware that our healthcare expenditure is decreasing year-on-year, and the ratio between public and private healthcare sectors has dropped from 50% to about 40% at present. If the proportion of the private healthcare sector continues to pick up, should we seek medical consultation at the private healthcare sector when no bed is available in public hospitals? Noting the Government's failure to resolve the problem, people can only turn to health insurance for protection. Even if they fail to obtain services from public hospitals, appropriate resources will still be available to them, and this is precisely the purpose of the HPS. However, after some discussions in this Council, the Government has yet to develop a product or convince the spoiled private hospitals to make a U-turn because …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, your speech does not relate to head 37.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Why not?

9142 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Unless what you are going to say is related to the heads to be discussed in this debate session, I will have to stop you from speaking until you are ready to speak again.

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): No, you should prove why my speech is irrelevant. If Mr WONG Yuk-man's speech is relevant, mine should not be irrelevant because I am also holding his books. You are wrong and should not praise him. His books are now in my hand. Again, you are acting in a CPC way, "like the moon" …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, which services of the DH are you speaking on?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): There is no point for you to be so fierce. Now, I am going to speak on the Water Supplies Department (WSD) and there are a number of things that I can talk about. Let me tell you, it is fine even if you expel me …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please do not stray from the question again. I have been listening patiently to your speech, and I want to ask how your speech relates to head 37 which you just claimed to focus on?

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I am not going to argue with you because I am afraid of you. You have the power to expel me. I would like to talk about "Head 194 ― Water Supplies Department", okay? Have you found it? I will start once you have found it.

Firstly, I will also speak with reference to Mr WONG Yuk-man's books, so you should not stop me. Regarding our long-term reliance on Dongjiang water … Chairman, someone kept murmuring in my ears. Mr NG Leung-sing said I am being repetitive, can you ask him to keep his mouth shut? I am telling you that Mr NG Leung-sing kept murmuring by my side.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9143

Regarding the long-term reliance on Dongjiang water, should we rely on it? The Government has never introduced any proper policy to tackle this problem. As a matter of fact, Dongjiang water costs as high as $9 per cu m, which is much higher than what Singapore has to pay for buying drinking water from Malaysia. What is more, we have only paid but not consumed any Dongjiang water for eight years. Do you think this is unforgivable? In other words, we have paid for the water that we have not consumed for eight years. Mr WONG Kwok-hing, how much taxpayers' money has been wasted? He said I have wasted $2.5 billion of taxpayers' money, but he had better open his eyes wide. Over a period of eight years, $5 billion of taxpayers' money had been wasted. Chairman, it is $5 billion, but the Government has done nothing about it. It would be great if you could make a ruling on this because you could threaten to expel the WSD if it failed to perform well. We wish we could do so. But practicably we could not do so because the Government is even worse than the Legislative Council, as they do not have a President to make ruling and expel anyone who has not done his job properly. There is no such arrangement.

Apart from not footing the bill and not doing anything, there is another alternative for the Government. Not footing the bill or not consuming the water after payment cannot solve the problem, as our supplier is obliged to supply water to us. This is why the Government has come up with the idea of draining water to the sea. Let me cite an example which I have not looked up. If the Chairman wants me to verify, I will do so for you right away. In 2013 ― Members from the royalist camp must pay attention and should not fall asleep ― a total of some 40 million cu m of water was drained away and $246 million was wasted. Chairman, we always stress the importance of national education, but do you know how much our Motherland has spent on the South-to-North Water Diversion Project? While people living in the north built dams and dredged the fossil river course, the wealthy Hong Kong people would rather pour water they bought into the sea amid poor governance. Honestly speaking, I was disheartened when I heard this and we should never let any Mainlander learn about this.

Chairman, I heard someone murmuring again.

Having spent so much money, there should be a way out. I have watched the live broadcast of LEE Kuan-yew's funeral, during which LEE Hsien-loong said his father had solved Singapore's water scarcity problem by developing the desalination industry. In view of the lack of natural resources and the fear that Malaysia would cut off the supply of drinking water, Singapore has built seawater 9144 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 desalination plants. The well-developed technology not only provides ample water supplies to meet local demand, but can also be exported. This is also the case for Israel. Chairman, given that we are so wealthy, may I ask the WSD ― no wonder Enoch LAM was deployed to the WSD ― whether it has any preferable policy? We only learnt recently that a desalination plant will be constructed, but billions of dollars will have to be spent in return for 5% to 10% of future water supply.

People always say that no job opportunities are available, and Dr CHIANG Lai-wan also said there is no industry policy in Hong Kong. And yet, both Israel and Singapore are now making money and many people beg to buy their technology. What actually has the Legislative Council been doing? People often criticize Members from the opposition party for not proposing any policy. Buddy, will we fail while Singapore has attained success? We may not able to do what the Israelis have done. For God's sake, I do not think I can finish discussing the problems of the WSD in this speech. I will tell you its problems when I speak again. I will let myself down if I do not chide it. Buddy, no more murmuring. Do Members really think that the problems can be covered up if no one blames the Government? When the house collapses, everyone will see it.

There are still two seconds to go. Knowing that Mr WONG Yuk-man's speech is very appealing but not many Members are present at the meeting, I want to invoke Rule 17(2) …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): As we are now at the Committee stage, the rule that applies should be Rule 17(3).

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(While the summoning bell was ringing, THE CHAIRMAN'S DEPUTY, MR ANDREW LEUNG, took the Chair)

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9145

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WONG Yuk-man, please speak.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I will continue to speak on the expenditure under "Head 37 ― Department of Health (DH)", and this is the second time I speak on head 37. When I spoke for the first time, I mainly talked about the management of Elderly Health Centre (EHC), out-patient attendance of elderly people and Elderly Health Care Voucher Scheme (Scheme).

Deputy Chairman, I want to tell you that my speech is not going to be repetitive. I am not going to repeat what I have said in my first speech when the Chairman presided the meeting, so you need not stop me from speaking. I will not repeat what I have previously said.

As Members may be aware, a large part of the DH's expenditure is devoted to Disease Prevention, that is, Programme (2), and Curative Care. They are the statutory duties of the DH and we have no doubt about it. According to the Report of the Director of Audit on the results of value for money audits, there is a shortage of manpower in the provision of EHC services provided by the DH and the management of the Scheme is riddled with problems, as clearly stated by the Public Accounts Committee. We hope that in the new financial year after the enactment of the Appropriation Bill, the DH will address the existing problems in a focused manner.

I wish to highlight the inspections of hospitals. The lack of manpower of the Government has left private hospitals go unchecked, and this is why many people have expressed serious concern about the supervision and inspections of private hospitals. The Finance Committee is recently examining the funding proposal of the Chinese University of Hong Kong Medical Centre. Given that it is a private hospital, Members hope that the Government will make remedies according to the recommendations made by the Audit Commission in the last Director of Audit's Report ― it should be the report preceding the last one ― or the numerous recommendations made in the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on private hospitals.

Also, healthcare safety is another matter of serious concern. The number of inspections of private hospitals conducted by the DH last year was only 112, which was fewer than the preceding year, but four cases of non-compliance have been uncovered, which was more than the year before. The cases involved Hong Kong Sanatorium & Hospital, Canossa Hospital, Hong Kong Adventist 9146 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Hospital and Tsuen Wan Adventist Hospital. The DH subsequently replied that written advice was issued to the hospitals concerned, but such practice had no deterrent effect at all. Without instituting prosecution, imposing fines or bringing the cases to light, people were all kept in the dark. If we had not conducted hearings to summon witnesses or if the names of the hospitals concerned had not been disclosed in any document or newspaper, people would not have known what had happened and the Government would continue to provide huge funding to those private hospitals. The Government has not instituted prosecution, imposed fines or disclosed the case on its own initiative, it was uncovered by the media.

Of those non-compliance cases, the most astonishing case is related to Hong Kong Sanatorium & Hospital. Expired medical devices, including the stent for angioplasty, were used, and as a result, the patient had to take antibiotics after the operation to prevent infection. The DH rarely conducts investigation on its own initiative, it only requires the hospital concerned to submit reports, and it seldom takes follow-up actions or imposes punishments. People have a strong impression of "doctors harbouring each other" under the existing complaint mechanism and the Medical Council of Hong Kong (MCHK). It is therefore very difficult to complain against doctors ― Dr LEUNG Ka-lau is not present at the meeting ― a painful experience that my family once suffered.

People are very dissatisfied with the phenomenon of "doctors harbouring each other" under the existing complaint mechanism and the MCHK, and that both the Food and Health Bureau and the DH are headed by doctors. Although I consider the performance of Dr CHAN Hon-yee, the incumbent Director of Health acceptable, it is inevitable for such a huge department with an annual expenditure of over $7 billion to encounter resource allocation problem. What is more, the workload is exceptionally heavy. While people are dissatisfied with the services in many respects, the services are not value for money either. We certainly hope that the Government can increase funding, but if the additional funding is not properly spent, then why bother to increase the provision?

Is the health of elderly people an important issue? The example cited earlier is astonishing because elderly people have to wait for nine and a half years before they can get health assessment and receive other services at EHCs. The waiting time is as long as nine and a half years. Elderly people who are relatively well-off certainly do not have any problem in this regard, but for most elderly people, especially those in my constituency, including Hung Hom and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9147

Sham Shui Po where the problem of ageing is serious and many of the residents are pretty poor, the problems are particularly serious. For those elderly people who are healthy and wealthy, this is certainly not a problem; but for those who are old and poor, many of them would rather die. However, ending their lives is not a solution because they may have nowhere to rest in peace, and this brings out another issue. The Legislative Council is now carrying out clause-by-clause examination of a bill on columbarium.

It is obvious to all that the DH has tried to avoid interfering with professional autonomy, and it often uses this as a defence or excuse when handling medical incidents. To avoid interfering with professional autonomy means that doctors or the MCHK is left unchecked, and this is a case of "doctors harbouring each other".

Another issue of late is that the influenza peak season has still not ended. The highest accumulated death toll is 490, nearly 500, which is a record high in recent years. The DH has spent $4 million to purchase 100 000 doses of vaccines targeting the H3N2 Switzerland influenza strain, but they will only arrive at Hong Kong at the end of this month at the earliest. As a result of the mutation of influenza virus, the vaccine has become ineffective. Worse still, elderly people in Hong Kong are not enthusiastic in receiving vaccinations and the Government has not done well in publicity.

The functions of the DH have been set out in details under various programmes of head 37. For example, Programme (3) Health Promotion involves a great deal of publicity, so does Programme (2) Disease Prevention. Why do so few people receive vaccination? In Taiwan, the percentage of vaccinated people is as high as 90%, and this explains why the death toll is not so high. Although the prevailing vaccine is not very effective given the mutation of virus, the number of elderly people infected or died from influenza during the influenza peak season could be reduced if they had received vaccination earlier. SARS had taken 299 lives and everyone looked miserable at that time. Hong Kong became a dead city and everyone wore masks. It was a terrible time back then. I remember that I hosted a radio programme at that time and had to report the daily death toll. Although the death toll has reached as high as 500 this time, we remain indifferent because death is natural during influenza peak season. This is not unique in Hong Kong, but is common in other places as well. This is right, but people are so indifferent to such a high death toll.

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We certainly understand that it is not easy to order sufficient and safe vaccines before the influenza peak season, and this has exerted undue pressure on the DH year after year. Prof YUEN Kwok-yung from the Department of Mircobiology of the University of Hong Kong once proposed that Hong Kong should promote the development of the pharmaceutical industry and produce our own influenza vaccine. This proposal is indeed worth considering. As a Member returned by direct geographical constituency election, I have frequent contacts with elderly people in my constituency. For example, we hold birthday parties for the elderly every month, and if I have money, I would also give them seasonal delicacies. We mainly serve the elderly in my constituency. Given the large population of elderly people, eye examination and blood pressure check are provided on a regular basis. We have even secured sponsors for elderly people to undergo cataract operation after their eye examination. We will do whatever we can to help them.

We have identified many problems in the course of helping the elderly. We learn that healthcare and health are of paramount importance to the elderly people. In view of the fact that elderly people in Hong Kong have to wait for years before they receive the EHC services, what can we do? Elderly singletons who are sick also need to wait for years before they can be admitted to subsidized nursing homes, and they may die while they are waiting for admission. We can tell from the figures that death comes easier than admission to nursing homes. Why does the Government not think of some ways to alleviate the problems?

Some people thought that the healthcare voucher is a good policy because the amount has increased to $2,000, but the relevant figures showed that elderly people mainly use the vouchers to settle medical fees for treating acute episodic conditions rather than for preventive care purposes. As at January 2014, nearly 10% (or 53 000) of the elderly had their vouchers forfeited because the value of their unused vouchers had exceeded the accumulation limit of $3,000. The value of vouchers forfeited amounted to $9.6 million.

Why would this happen? To enhance the attractiveness of the programme, the DH has doubled the annual voucher amount for each eligible elderly from $1,000 per year in 2013 to $2,000 per year in 2014, changing the face value of each voucher from $50 to $1, and increasing the accumulation limit to $4,000. Furthermore, it has stepped up the publicity of the Scheme, such as the use of television and radio announcements of public interest and other effective channels to raise public awareness of the programme. It has also LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9149 appealed to medical professional bodies to solicit their support to encourage the enrolment of their members. These are what the DH should do, but it has failed to meet the work targets in many cases. Particularly, the medical professional bodies or service providers are not enthusiastic in enrolling in the Scheme, resulting in a large gap.

The management problems of the Scheme have also revealed the dereliction of duty on the part of the DH in that it has not closed the voucher accounts of deceased elderly but continued to issue vouchers to the accounts. As at March 2014, the deceased elderly had accumulated unused vouchers amounting to $262 million. The number of vouchers held by deceased elderly was inadvertently included in making provision for the Scheme in the 2014-2015 Estimates of Expenditure, and the provision had been inflated by $92 million as a result. This is what happened last year, and definitely such errors should not recur.

Another issue is the out-patient services to elderly patients. Not only the Legislative Council has raised a number of oral and written questions in this regard, Members have also received relevant complaints from elderly people in their district offices. This is indeed a very serious problem. I remember that at the relevant hearing conducted by the Public Accounts Committee, problems relating to specialist out-patient services to elderly patients were highlighted, and there had been positive feedback from the Hospital Authority, the DH and the Food and Health Bureau. All of them had indicated their wish to make improvements.

Deputy Chairman, since I still have to speak on other heads, my speech on head 37 will end here. Later I will speak on heads 80, 94, 112, 160, 163 and 169. And, if time allows, I also wish to speak on a couple of other heads.

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): I continue to speak on "Head 160 ― Radio Television Hong Kong". First, let me respond to some comments made by Ms Cyd HO just now about me. She considered that I was not very fair to Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) by only comparing its financial provision and programme hours for 2014-2015 with those for 2015-2016. I have to clarify and respond to what she said.

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Actually, in the last session, I was only comparing two groups of figures in respect of Programme (2) Public Affairs and General Television Programme, with the figures in the first group being the financial provisions for 2014-2015 and 2015-2016. The financial provision for 2014-2015 was $372 million, while that for 2015-2016 is $414 million, representing an increase of 11.3% in terms of percentage. I then compared this percentage with the total hours of television (TV) output; the total TV output for 2014-2015 was 1 345 hours, while that for 2015-2016 is expected to be 1 303 hours. I really find it strange that although the provision is increased by 11.3%, the output hours will actually decrease. I merely talked about the figures, but Ms Cyd HO commented that I was unfair, saying that I should also refer to the situation in the year before last, that is, 2013-2014.

Very well, let us take a look at the situation in the year before last. It transpired that in 2013-2014, RTHK only had a total TV output of 764 hours. This is Ms Cyd HO's argument. She considers that the sudden increase from 700-odd hours in 2013-2014 to 1 345 hours in 2014-2015 was a huge one, but when it comes to the growth in resources, the relevant financial provision was only increased from $361 million in 2013-2014 to $392 million in 2014-2015; despite such a small increase in the provision, the output almost doubled from 764 hours to 1 345 hours. What she means is that the increase in output was actually too large, so the slight reduction in output to 1 303 hours in 2015-2016 is just a move to bring things back to normal.

I find this very strange ― I am not blaming the staff of RTHK. Why could a small increase of $30 million in the financial provision enable the total TV output to increase from 764 hours in 2013-2014 to 1 345 hours in 2014-2015? Was it a problem with the management, or was it due to other reasons? Was it a case of RTHK submitting meekly to oppression? RTHK was told to double its output hours with a slightly increased financial provision, and it managed to do so. Now, as the Government finds that the same cannot be done, it increases the provision by 11% without telling RTHK to increase its output hours; instead, they are going to be reduced. From the comparisons of these figures, we can see that RTHK is in a morbid state, that is, it can never say no. It is okay to require it to double its output without giving it money; it is also okay to give it more money without requiring it to increase its output. Of course this is okay, for it is up to RTHK to make adjustments as to how much money and how many hours are needed to produce a one-hour drama. If it is given more resources, it can work "in slow motion".

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Certainly, from the perspective of value for money and resource utilization, we can see from page 809 of this set of estimates, which is as thick as a telephone directory, that RTHK's cost per hour is actually very high. The relevant cost per hour was $472,900 in 2013-2014, and is going to be reduced to $318,000 in 2015-2016. This shows that RTHK is really at the mercy of the Government, which can require RTHK to increase its output hours in future or … In fact, when this Budget was prepared, the Government had yet to make the decision. What decision? It had yet to decide to require RTHK to take over the two analogue broadcast channels released by Asia Television Limited (ATV) after its closure, namely ATV Home and ATV World. If 24-hour broadcasting is really required, how can RTHK's 1 303 hours of self-produced programmes fill up the two channels released by ATV? So, from the comparisons of these figures, we can also see things that are unreasonable.

In the face of the non-renewal of ATV's licence leading to the possibility of its closure at any time, IP Ka-po has come forth and let the cat out of the bag, saying that ATV's days are numbered and it may close down by the end of May. ATV may close down any time, but the Government hopes that it will not close down so soon, not until April next year, so that the Government will have time to study the technical issues and other matters. Nonetheless, if ATV really closes down by the end of May, can RTHK pick up the baton immediately by providing programmes to be broadcast on the analogue channels of ATV Home and ATV World during this window period? Even today, the Government is unable to answer this question. Furthermore, we often say that RTHK is good at producing non-mainstream programmes concerning current affairs, public affairs or culture and art, rather than entertainment programmes. There is no way that it can compete with Television Broadcasts Limited (TVB), which focuses its efforts on producing entertainment programmes, let alone compete with it for business. Since RTHK does not accept commercial advertisements, there is no question of them competing for business. As to competition for audience ratings, we also reckon that RTHK will definitely lose to TVB. Long-term reliance on RTHK's TV programmes to fill up the two analogue channels will only result in a lack of effective competition in analogue broadcasting.

Why is RTHK required to temporarily take over the two analogue channels? According to the Government, the days of analogue broadcasting are numbered, as it will be scrapped altogether in 2020 at the earliest. In other words, old-style TV sets commonly known as "giant tortoises" will then be unable to receive these analogue channels. For this reason, Gregory SO thinks 9152 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 that no one will be willing to invest in such a short-lived business, which also involves the construction of transmission stations, merely for the sake of analogue broadcasting that can only operate for a few more years until being switched off in 2020. While the Government plans to abolish analogue broadcasting in 2020, according to the paper on the deferral of the analogue switch-off target date submitted by the authorities, the earliest analogue switch-off time frame for Guangdong Province will be the end of 2020; prior to that, without technical co-ordination, analogue switch-off in Hong Kong will not yield any usable digital dividend.

In this regard, I need to spend a little time explaining the meaning of digital dividend. If Guangdong Province does not switch off analogue broadcasting to surrender the relevant spectrum for both places to share and use for telephone networks or other purposes, and we only have the space released from closing the two analogue broadcast channels here in Hong Kong, no purpose will be served. Therefore, if analogue broadcasting is not abolished completely on the Mainland, it should not be abolished unilaterally in Hong Kong. In view of this, the target of analogue switch-off in 2020 is just the earliest possible date. It is possible that analogue broadcasting will continue instead of being abolished on the Mainland. If that is the case, what will happen? The answer is that RTHK will continue to run the two analogue channels. What kind of loss will the whole community suffer as a result of this?

What I want to say has nothing to do with the number of programme choices, or the appeal of RTHK programmes ― Gregory SO said that RTHK programmes always topped the Appreciation Index. Rather, it is about TVB's prolonged possession of both analogue and digital channels. If you want to advertise on TV, will you choose a TV station which only has the technology for digital broadcasting, that is, a new TV station in the future, or a TV station which has both analogue and digital broadcast channels? I believe that even an idiot knows that you will of course choose TVB. As it can broadcast in both formats, people can watch the advertisement regardless of whether they are using old-style or digital TV sets, with or without set-top boxes. This objective phenomenon will certainly make any other new free TV operators lose at the starting line, for they can only broadcast on digital channels, which can only bring about half the intended influence. Strangely enough, our Government assumes that those new investors are not interested in analogue broadcasting. The Government says that this is not profitable, and the duration is so short that it will not be worth the effort. How does the Government know that they will not make a profit in the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9153 end despite a loss at the beginning? Can they not regard this as advertising and an investment? Can they not try to beat TVB? Besides, since RTHK itself will not accept commercial advertisements, and it is impossible for it to snatch TVB's advertising revenue, the market will be dominated by one broadcaster. In the past, we still had ATV, though it was not competitive. But now, as even ATV is out, the market is dominated by one broadcaster, namely TVB, which has almost reaped all the proceeds of TV advertisements.

RTHK Programme Staff Union indicated earlier that while RTHK was to take over these two analogue broadcast channels from ATV, given its current shortage of resources, manpower and hardware equipment, RTHK simply would not be able to provide a 24-hour channel in a short time. The Staff Union also pointed out that the Government had been stalling on opening up the digital spectrum airwaves, resulting in Hong Kong having only one free TV station which monopolizes the market. The formulation of this policy, as I mentioned just now, was far from being transparent. We do not know whose good idea it was, or who supported it. What is more, this policy is not in the public interest, as it will effectively leave people with fewer and fewer choices. Therefore, we should keep urging the Government to open up the airwaves, and enhance the quality of programmes through the introduction of competition. I find it deeply regrettable that the President refused to allow Ms Claudia MO to ask an urgent question on this issue, as I do not know whether there will still be a chance to do so after we have finished scrutinizing the Budget. Each Member may have four minutes to ask a question at a Panel meeting, but after the question is asked, there may be no time left for the officials' reply. Yet, asking an urgent question at a Council meeting will absolutely have a different effect.

Getting RTHK to stand in for ATV, which may close down at any minute, within a short span of time is a stop-gap measure that can be taken before a new TV broadcaster is licensed, but RTHK definitely should not be required to run the relevant channels all the way until 2020, causing TVB to be able to dominate the market, as this is tantamount to the Government helping TVB by implementing a policy which leads to the dominance of this commercial TV broadcaster, as well as its advantage over other newcomers or TV broadcasters that are about to be licensed for digital broadcasting. This is absolutely unreasonable. Moreover, instead of asking other institutions if they are interested, the Government seeks to help TVB calculate and do business. We absolutely object to this, but as RTHK is being put in such an awkward love-hate situation, we do not propose to cut RTHK's expenditure. In the matters requiring special attention in 2015-2016 set 9154 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 out in this "telephone directory", it is not mentioned that RTHK needs to take over the two channels from ATV. In other words, it is certain that this decision was not made when preparing this "telephone directory". Actually, the authorities should append an additional page to this Budget to tell us how the Government is to calculate these accounts, which need to be calculated all over again.

I notice that the matters requiring special attention include an item that reads: "continue to plan for the construction of the new Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O in relation to TV services". The inclusion of this item shows that the Government has not given up this project, and this is somewhat different from the remarks made by Gregory SO earlier that the Government may not be able to deal afresh with the issue of the Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O in the coming two years. Does the inclusion of this item in the matters requiring special attention in 2015-2016 mean that the Government will put it into practice? Or, while this item is on the list for the time being, it is more for show than for real? If the Government really wants RTHK to take over the two analogue broadcast channels, RTHK is required to broadcast programmes, but if it does not even have a decent studio, it definitely cannot do so. If the Government acts in this way ― I do not know whether this is contrary to the Competition Ordinance ― I can only say that the Government will enable TVB to dominate the market for good, and render any new TV broadcasters unable to compete with it.

Therefore, we do not propose to cut RTHK's expenditure, but hope to take this opportunity to urge the Government to ponder deeply over the duties and role of RTHK in the coming one year or several years, and whether the financial provision it applied for is sufficient to enable it to perform its role.

I so submit.

DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, I will continue to express my views on head 37 concerning the provision of funding for the Department of Health (DH). Although the participation rate of the School Dental Care Service (SDCS) is still higher than 90%, I find it very disturbing that the target participation rate was 96% in 2014 but it is down to slightly higher than 90% in 2015, meaning that even the DH also expects a continuous decline in the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9155 participation rate. As the Government gets richer and can better afford to improve the SDCS, isn't it absurd that the participation rate keeps declining and the Government can do nothing about it?

If you have paid close attention, you will understand that the workload of dentists and dental hygienists providing dental care service is extremely heavy. The parents or children participating in the SDCS are dissatisfied with the inadequacy of service and long waiting time. Some parents have told us that they have to travel a long way to the SDCS centres and wait a long time to receive the service. As there are only a few centres, the situation is very frustrating, and many parents are thus forced to drop out of the SDCS.

On the other hand, despite our great efforts made in lobbying the Government to extend the SDCS to junior secondary school, the Government has refused. Does it mean that children no longer need dental care after they leave primary school? Does it make sense? For the middle-class or even better-off families, it may not be too difficult for them to seek dental treatment. However, for many families, especially families in the poorer districts I am familiar with in New Territories West, such as Yuen Long, Tin Shui Wai and Tung Chung, can they afford to pay for their children's dental services on a regular basis? Of course not. However, when their children leave primary school and attend junior secondary school, the Government no longer cares for their dental health.

We have requested the Government to conduct a survey on the dental health conditions of students in junior secondary and senior secondary schools and beyond. The Government always says that the dental conditions of primary students are good. But we must bear in mind that first, it is lucky that the Government is still willing to allocate resources to take care of primary students' dental health and so their dental conditions are relatively good; and second, it takes a long time to see the results of dental care. If we keep observing for a longer period of time, for example, if we continue to examine the dental health of students in senior secondary level and beyond, we will see that their dental conditions would deteriorate as they get older. But the Government neither pays attention nor treats the matter seriously. As a matter of fact, the DH has the resources and professional personnel to extend the scope of the SDCS, but does the Government care? Of course not. Deputy Chairman, the Government would rather spend tens of billions of dollars to "hand out candies" than providing people with proper basic healthcare and dental care services.

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On the other hand, we feel shameful about the dental health conditions of the elderly in Hong Kong. I hope the Government feels shameful too. Many elderly people are toothless but the Government turns a blind eye. Being a doctor, I know that for the elderly to stay healthy, it is very important for them to eat normally. Without getting the basic nutrition, their physical condition will deteriorate. Deputy Chairman, the Government had once provided dental care services to the elderly, but it refused to continue with the service after the first round because the dental health conditions of the elderly were too bad that the Government refused to provide the service again.

Today, our request for provision of dental service to the elderly is rejected by the Government. We all know the dental conditions of the elderly. Since their dental conditions were already very bad some 10 years ago, can the Government do something to improve the elderly's dental health? The Government has proposed an absurd measure to help the elderly through the Community Care Fund, the administration cost of which is higher than the cost of services received by the elderly. Is there anything more ridiculous than this? First, the DH does not use its own recourses but shift the duty to the Community Care Fund. Can it be more shameless? While the DH has the resources and expertise to provide the services, it shifts the responsibility to some other irrelevant bodies. Second, the administration cost of the plan is higher than the cost of services received by the elderly. Is this putting the horse before the cart? Now the Government wants to make remedies hastily but the approach sounds even more ridiculous. According to the Secretary, elderly people over the age of 80 can get subsidized dental services. The average life expectancy of males in Hong Kong is slightly over 81 years and the average life expectancy of females, who live longer, is about 84 or 85 years. Now the Government states that it will start offering dental check-up service to those who expect to live for one more year or so, how apathetic our Government is in saying something like that? Is there anything wrong with this Government? Some may think we are in the third world or we are very poor, but mind you, the amounts of our fiscal reserve and exchange fund are well over $3,000 billion. With such a huge reserve, the Government can afford to provide various refunds; but in the case of the elderly, sorry, they cannot receive any subsidy until they are 80 years old. How dare the Government say something like that? How about the people under 80? The Government just turns a blind eye to them.

Do not think that recipients of the Comprehensive Social Security Allowance (CSSA) will certainly get the help needed, but their conditions are slightly better. After consulting a dentist and getting the quotation, the elderly LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9157

CSSA recipients can apply to the DH for approval, and they can return to the dental clinic for treatment after approval is granted. Very often, the elderly's dental problem is so serious and they cannot eat and sleep well, and they can also get treatment after a long and tortuous process. How can the Government treat the elderly in this way? Why does it adopt such a practice? If you pursue for the reason, the Government would tell you that there is a shortfall of dentists and dental staff; if you ask further when the problems were identified, the Government would tell you that it was aware of the problems two or three decades back. If the Government already knew about the shortfall of dentists two or three decades back, why did it not address the problem?

Have the officials just woken today and become aware of the shortfall of dentists? Deputy Chairman, each year many young people in Hong Kong who wish to enter the Faculty of Dentistry of the University of Hong Kong are rejected. Some parents have to spend a fortune to send their children abroad to study dentistry in countries such as the United Kingdom, Australia and even the United States. Some people have to sit for various examinations when they return to Hong Kong after graduation.

In other words, we do not lack talents who aspire to become dentists but do they deserve to be treated like that? The Government turns a blind eye to people (especially the poor) waiting for dental services, as well as to those who want to become dentists. How can the Government lie blatantly and attribute the failure to provide dental services to the lack of dentists? The Government is both Jekyll and Hyde. It makes no efforts to train dentists and then claims that it cannot provide dental services due to the lack of dentists. The Government should take the blame for the constant low ranking of Hong Kong people's dental health. Yet, the Government denies its fault and claims that the public can always consult private dentists. This is an obvious fact. For those who can afford to pay, they can of course consult private dentists. Do you know how much it costs to have the teeth replaced? We are talking about tens of thousands of dollars. It costs $10,000 to $20,000 to have one single dental implant. For old people having no more than 10 teeth, how can they eat? How can the Government be so heartless!

I once asked the view of a geriatrician. He smiled, and said nothing except asking me to look at the teeth of the elderly. He once asked his patients to pay attention to their nutrition intake. No one believes that people in Hong Kong would suffer from malnutrition. But if we visit an elderly home, we can find many elderly people suffering from malnutrition because they can hardly eat. In a non-subsidized elderly home, how many staff are available to feed the elderly 9158 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 people one by one? What is the easiest way out? I wonder if anyone has heard of inserting a feeding tube into the stomach. This is the easiest way to feed them and besides, after inserting a feeding tube, dentures are not needed. I hope that the Secretary will get a taste of being fed in this way when he gets old. It is a vile experience. Sometimes food would flow out of the tube, and if it gets into the lungs, it will cause pneumonia. Many elderly people have this kind of complications. Whenever I talk about dental service, I would think of the Government's negligence of dental services over the years. Now in 2015, the Government still holds such an attitude when we examine the Budget. Isn't this outrageous?

Of course, when we examine the Budget, we hope that the Government will allocate additional funds to provide more dental services. I see that the Under Secretary for Education is present here. May I ask him to allocate funds to the University Grant Committee to train more dentists in Hong Kong? Of course not. No one would ask him to do so. But are the authorities aware of the dire hardships of the elderly? They have to seek treatment in Shenzhen, though they know very well that there is no guarantee for service quality in Shenzhen. They are attracted by the advertisement of a celebrity who recommends Shenzhen for dental treatment. I once asked an elderly person why he went to Shenzhen for dental treatment and his reply was that the treatment was cheap. I then asked him if he was aware of the risk. He was aware of the risk but he had no other choice as he only had little money. The Government does provide dental service to the elderly, and that is, tooth extraction, and people still need to wait two days to get the service. I ask a dentist what should be done after an elderly person has his teeth extracted. The dentist said he only knows how to extract teeth ― excuse me, apart from tooth extraction, the dentist can also perform other procedures, such as fixing the dentures, but he cannot provide other services to the elderly. What happens after an elderly person has his teeth extracted? The patient has to deal with that on his own. Of course, the elderly person will not suffer from toothache after his teeth are extracted, but how can he eat without teeth? In my view, the basic dignity of a person, or the basic dignity of an elderly person, is to allow him to eat normally. This is a basic human right. I am not demanding anything grand and extravagant but the Government deprives the elderly of their fundamental right of eating. How pathetic!

Over the years, our dental services have never been improved. Members can pay a visit to the dental clinics in Kennedy Town or Sai Ying Pun … The clinics are not open every day. Some are open on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, some on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, while some just provide LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9159 service one day a week. The elderly people queue up outside the clinics every morning around six, even before the sun rises. Some are lucky enough to receive the service but for those who come late and cannot receive the service, they will have to come again next week early in the morning. These incidents should only happen in Les Misérables. The Government always boasts that Hong Kong is Asia's World City, an affluent city which will spend $140 billion to construct the third runway. How come it can spend $140 billion on the construction of the third runway but cannot spare a little money to provide better dental services? What kind of society is this? What kind of Government is it? How can it treat the elderly people who have toiled their whole life to build up this affluent society? Should they live like that in their twilight years?

Sometimes I also feel shameful. When I meet with overseas doctors (some dentists from Kaohsiung, Taiwan came to Hong Kong not too long ago), I dare say anything. I do not know what to tell them. I feel very embarrassed. Can anyone understand? As a citizen of Hong Kong and as a doctor, what can I say? Our senior citizens are in such a plight. There is a report on that. If someone sees that report, shouldn't we find a hole to hide? However, the Secretary needs not find a hole to hide. The Secretary and the Government ask without hesitation for our approval to allocate $140 billion … Sorry, they do not have to ask now as they have already issued the cheque to spend $140 billion to build the third runway.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy Chairman.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Deputy Chairman, this is the third time that I speak in the first debate which involves 21 heads. I will talk about "Head 80 ― Judiciary".

Some people think that there is separation of powers in Hong Kong. They think that the rule of law can be enshrined to do justice because judicial independence is maintained. Yet, the judicial independence of Hong Kong has recently been politically challenged, and such examples are bountiful. People have begun to worry and some even think that if this last line of defence cannot be safeguarded, Hong Kong would basically be doomed.

Our Government has adopted the Basic Law as its guiding principle of administration. In practice, the Basic Law is even adopted as a guiding principle of administrative hegemony. Basically, it is a form of dictatorial rule and not 9160 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 authoritarian rule. Mr LEE Kuan-yew's rule was a form of authoritarian rule, am I right? Mr LEE Kuan-yew made use of the electoral system and the political system to establish the authority of his rule. That was the type of democratic system implemented by him. While he called his ideology "Asian Values", I describe it as "Sadness in the East". In governing a tiny country with a small population, he exercised strong leadership, but the prerequisite was that he brought prosperity to the country and peace to the people, and he also implemented benevolent governance. To implement benevolent governance, the people must be good and to be good, the people must not oppose the government, is that right? That is authoritarian rule, and Mr LEE Kuan-yew was a strongman of Asia. This kind of strongman politics ended with the death of Mr LEE Kuan-yew. Before him, there were many other strongmen, such as Mr SUHARTO, Dr MAHATHIR, Mr CHIANG Ching-kuo, and so on. These people were gone, and now even Mr LEE Kuan-yew passed away.

The existence of the so-called administrative hegemony or administrative autocracy was due to the backing of the Communist Party of China, is that right? What is LEUNG Chun-ying doing? He is staging class struggle, instigating ideological confrontations and tearing ethnic groups apart. No one can restrain his executive powers. Take a look at the Chamber of the Legislative Council and count the number of Members present, there are no more than 10 people here, but we are discussing the 2015-2016 Budget, that is, the Appropriation Bill 2015. As there are so many heads of expenditure in the Budget, if each Member speaks for 15 minutes on each head, it will take more than two months to end the debate.

Nevertheless, Members have various reasons not to speak and Members who speak are limited to a few. Thus, those Members who speak are considered as filibustering, right? Take Dr KWOK Ka-ki as an example. As a doctor, it is very reasonable for him to speak twice on head 37 about the functions of the Department of Health (DH). The provision for the DH covers a total of eight programmes involving various services. If Dr KWOK adopted a very serious approach and examined the cost-effectiveness of the services involving $7 billion-plus, he could have spoken for a very long time. Would you say that Dr KWOK was filibustering then? Certainly not. Yet, under the current constitutional environment, the power to legislate is incomplete. Therefore, people have put their final hope on the judicial system.

(THE CHAIRMAN resumed the Chair)

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I will discuss "Head 80 ― Judiciary" now. Let me talk about one aspect in particular. To uphold judicial independence or the rule of law in Hong Kong, the quality of services of the Judiciary is very important, isn't it? Programme (1) Courts, Tribunals and Various Statutory Functions involves the operation of different levels of courts, appointments of judges, and so on. Certainly, payment of salaries is most important and so this programme incurs the greatest amount of expenditure. Programme (2) is Support Services for Courts' Operation.

Basically, we think that the existing operation of the Judiciary can maintain judicial independence. However, there are certain things with which we are certainly dissatisfied. For example, people like us who have been to courts, that is, those who have been arrested and tried in courts, would have met some magistrates in the magistracies. The low standard of these magistrates would scare you and shake your confidence in the Judiciary. This is particularly the case in magistracies. The rate of conviction in magistracies is very high. For example, in cases of unlawful assembly or participating in an unauthorized assembly, and so on, the defendants will surely be convicted in court and there is no doubt about it. These trials are a waste of time.

Nevertheless, my case was different. I am indomitable. In the protest on 1 July 2011, the Police arrested 138 persons. I was the first defendant charged for three offences, namely, participating in an unauthorized assembly, organizing an unauthorized assembly and unlawful assembly. I was convicted of all three charges and received an imprisonment sentence for the charge of unlawful assembly. That was why Dr CHIANG Lai-wan sought to activate the procedures for relieving my duties as a Member of the Legislative Council. I was given a suspended sentence in that case. The question was, could she activate the procedures for relieving my duties on the basis of a suspended sentence and actual imprisonment according to the provisions of the Basic Law? Dr CHIANG withdrew the application later. I did not care if my duties were relieved; if so, I would stand for election again.

During the judicial process, we can identify many problems in the judicial system. In this session today, I will only discuss one of the issues. Chairman, when the rate of conviction is so high, there are bound to be wrongful convictions, is that right? Wrongful convictions are unjust cases, as they are commonly called. In fact, recently, the United States found that there were problems with the authentication methods adopted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and unjust cases had arisen as a result. There is a loophole 9162 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 in the judicial system even in the democratic country which many people regarded as god, and a loophole has been created because cases are convicted on evidence based on the results of authentication. But what are the merits of the United States? One of the merits is that it has put in place a self-enhancement mechanism under which it will immediately remedy the situation after a mistake has been identified. The FBI has done a lot of bad things. Subsequently, it revealed that there were problems with its authentication methods. The United States has put in place a self-enhancement mechanism. There is no self-enhancement mechanism in Hong Kong. It is meaningless to pay people compensation afterwards, isn't it? Since the rate of conviction is so high in the District Court and the rate of conviction in the Court of First Instance is more than 90% in Hong Kong, I tell you, there are bound to be unjust cases.

In dealing with alleged cases of wrongful convictions by a judge or a magistrate, the authorities have to seek advice from the Judiciary. At present, there are two compensation schemes regarding wrongful convictions. First, compensation is payable under Article 11(5) of the Hong Kong Bill of Rights, as provided for in the Hong Kong Bill of Rights Ordinance (Cap. 383). Alternatively, an ex gratia compensation is payable under the administrative scheme. The scope of compensation and the calculation of payment are different in the two schemes. The two schemes sometimes overlap and sometimes complement each other. In fact, the Government should examine whether they can be consolidated and I think that is a better idea.

The authorities consider that payment of ex gratia compensation does not arise from any legal or statutory obligation. Frankly speaking, the term "ex gratia" is very disturbing. I remember that at a meeting of the Panel on Food Safety and Environmental Hygiene, it was said that ex gratia payment was given to traders who were affected by the culling of chickens in response to the avian flu. Buddy, why was it called ex gratia payment? Since the Government culled the chickens, it should make compensation to the trade, how could such payment be regarded as ex gratia? I remember on one occasion, Dr Helena WONG even called the compensation given to some fishermen pension. Pension is given to family members of deceased persons, but Dr WONG called such payment pension.

Why do I make a point about pension and ex gratia payment? What is ex gratia payment? Have the authorities given the recipients special care? The authorities culled farmers' chickens and confiscated fishermen's trawlers, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9163 shouldn't compensation be paid to these people? How could the compensation be regarded as ex gratia payments? Has Prof K C CHAN created that term? The amount paid to wrongfully convicted victims is called ex gratia compensation by the Government, but it is the authorities which have made the wrongful convictions in the first place. This payment should be called compensation, but they add the term "ex gratia" and call it "ex gratia payment". Do you think there is something wrong with the terminology?

I am greatly troubled and infuriated by the term "ex gratia compensation". A man said, "I am wronged, Sir!" Subsequently, it was proved that the man had indeed been wronged. Giving him compensation would not make him think that he had received any benefit. How can the compensation be called ex gratia compensation? Regardless of whether the Government or the Department of Justice should be held legally liable for the wrongful conviction, a humane government should carefully and respectfully express regret to the wrongfully convicted persons and conduct a review to identify any flaws in the system. The term "compensation" only refers to money payable to wrongfully convicted persons to compensate for their sufferings and losses and it does not carry any meaning of ex gratia or benefit. Therefore, the term should be changed to "compensation for wrongful convictions" or "compensation for unjust cases".

Chairman, as Members will be aware, each year Taiwan commemorates the 28 February Incident which occurred in 1947. The Taiwanese Government had vindicated the incident ― as in vindicating the 4 June incident often used by the pan-democratic Members ― and legislation were enacted to provide people involved in the incident with compensation. The Taiwanese Government identified the family members of the victims and made compensation to them. It dared not call such payment ex gratia payment, compensation payment or pension. Why do people call such payment pension? Chairman, what is pension? It is payment to family members of the deceased.

The Secretary is now present and this point concerns him. At present, the rate of compensation for wrongful convictions is determined by the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury, isn't this arrangement laughable? Chairman, the matter is totally unrelated to the work of the Secretary. This arrangement is extremely unsatisfactory. As Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury, what criteria would Prof K C CHAN use to determine non-monetary losses? For example, a wrongfully convicted victim lost freedom and his character and reputation were ruined. How should compensation be 9164 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 determined? As a Director of Bureau in charge of financial matters, how would he determine those non-monetary losses and what criteria would he use? Buddy, some members of the public were wrongfully convicted and have been imprisoned for a few years for no reason.

Besides, the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury said he would make a decision after considering the advice of the Department of Justice. To me, this approach is even more unacceptable. As I have pointed out many times in the Panel concerned, as a government department responsible for instituting prosecutions, the Department of Justice should be held liable for the wrongful convictions to a certain extent, because evidence was provided by it. Similar to the example which I have just quoted, the FBI has now admitted that many cases have been wrongfully convicted by courts which relied on the evidence produced by wrong authentication methods. As a government department responsible for instituting prosecutions, the Department of Justice should be held liable for the wrongful convictions to a certain extent. Chairman, is that right? The Court convicts a defendant on the basis of the evidence provided by the prosecution. The authorities decided that the Department of Justice should be involved in determining the rate of compensation, and Prof K C CHAN said that he would seek the advice of the Secretary for Justice, isn't this ridiculous? I think if the two parties cannot agree on the amount of compensation, the matter should be adjudicated by the Court. That is the practice adopted by the Government in England and Wales. A statutory compensation scheme was set up under section 133 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, the amount of compensation is determined by an independent assessor, not the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury.

Furthermore, the principles which have to be considered in determining whether the defendant is innocent are very abstract. This is equivalent to the situation faced by the Court in deciding whether an acquitted defendant in a criminal case can obtain the legal costs. Since various legal principles are involved in reaching such decisions, it would be inappropriate to deal with them by way of administrative measures.

The Government said that the Department of Justice and the Solicitor General would consider any application independently and make a decision. If there is any conflict of interests, the Government would seek advice from counsel in private practice. We consider this approach of handling compensation issues an improvement, but more should be done. That is why over the past five years, there is only one successful claim out of many unjust cases and wrongful LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9165 convictions. Only one claim which has proceeded according to the procedures is successful. I sometimes think that the Secretary's job is very simple. Although responsibilities have been given to him and the amount of compensation payable is determined by him, there is actually only one successful claim. There were many controversial cases in the past and although the authorities had sought advice from counsel in private practice, doubts could not be resolved. Therefore, the Government should consolidate the two compensation schemes, as I said earlier.

Chairman, why do I particularly mention the compensation schemes regarding wrongful convictions under the head of the Judiciary? It is because they fall under the funding of Programme (1) Courts, Tribunals and Various Statutory Functions (The buzzer sounded) … Thank you, Chairman.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I very much agree with Mr WONG Yuk-man in that if each Member speaks for 15 minutes on each head of expenditure, it may take a lot of time. However, I also believe that if Members are well-prepared to speak, they can express their incisive and informative views within the time limit.

As I have explained to Members at the start of the Committee stage, in order to ensure that Members will have the opportunity to speak in the ensuing debate sessions, I have to make an allocation of time for each debate.

In accordance with the allocation of time which I have proposed to Members earlier, I intend to suspend the meeting at 8 pm tonight (that is, in slightly more than an hour) and resume the meeting at 9 am tomorrow to continue with this debate for another hour. In other words, this debate will finish at 10 am tomorrow and Committee will then proceed to vote on whether the sums for the heads with no amendments stand part of the Schedule.

I hope that Members who still have many views to express will organize their ideas and make good use of the remaining time, so that we can finish this debate at 10 am tomorrow.

MS CLAUDIA MO (in Cantonese): Chairman, I would like to talk about the Water Supplies Department (WSD). I have not proposed amendment to reduce the financial provision for the WSD because the problems with the WSD do not lie with the WSD itself but the Government's policies. I hope the Government 9166 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 would make appropriate adjustment to the resources of the WSD, so that the huge amount of money used for purchasing Dongjiang water can be used on the development of desalination technology instead. At present, the relevant work is still at the preparatory stage.

In my opinion, Hong Kong must at least purchase 820 million cu m of Dongjiang water each year; this is the prescribed quantity. We must pay for that quantity of water, but the actual supply depends on the demand. The present situation has been improved but in the past, we kept wasting water. Since payment has been made, we will not get a refund even if we demand a less supply of water.

What are the problems? First, the prices are rather expensive; we paid $3.1 billion five years ago for the purchase of Dongjiang water; last year, we paid some $4 billion, this year we pay $4.2 billion and we will pay $4.5 billion in 2016. In 2010, we paid $3.1 billion for the purchase of Dongjiang water, and in 2016, we will have to pay $4.5 billion. Within six years, the payment will increase from $3.1 billion to $4.5 billion, an additional payment of $1.4 billion, and the increase rate is almost 50%, which is quite alarming!

In fact, we have been wasting water. In 2013, some already pointed out that there was a total increase of 26% in the prices of Dongjiang water within the preceding five years. Let us do some calculations. There will be a total increase of 45% in prices within six years counting back from next year. We also have to increase water charges because Dongjiang water is expensive; where does the WSD's money come from? The Government at present adopts the "user pays" principle.

With overflowing reservoirs in 2013, we indirectly lost $250 million in the purchase of Dongjiang water. However, the WSD and the Development Bureau brazenly said that the money had not been wasted. The reservoirs were overflowing simply because of heavy rain and in particular, there were heavy rainfalls in 2013 and consequently we had to "dump money into the sea" by discharging water to the sea. If that was not the case, we did need Dongjiang water because there was no excess water. What were they actually saying? We paid for the water but the water has constantly been wasted.

In my questions on the Budget, I asked about the overthrow quantities from reservoirs discharged into the sea, and the reply received is as follows: the situation in 2012 was not bad as the overthrow only amounted to 15 million cu m. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9167

As I just mentioned, the situation in 2013 was alarming for the overthrow exceeded 40 million cu m. The situation improved in 2014 and the overthrow only amounted to 23 million cu m. Nevertheless, according to the authorities, "the overflow was from locally collected rainwater in small and medium reservoirs during heavy rainstorm and there was no expenditure incurred". It is almost immoral for the authorities to make this comment. It sounds as though Dongjiang water imported to Hong Kong will not be collected in reservoirs, but will be directly distributed to users' homes through water mains.

In fact, Dongjiang water supplied to Hong Kong will still be collected in reservoirs. The WSD promotes water conservation and it often reminds us to do so through APIs broadcast on television and radio. Of course, water conservation is desirable because the access to clean water is a human right. Water conservation is absolutely important and this is part of modern life. I mentioned earlier that tens of millions of cu m of water was poured into the sea. Although the authorities said that the overflow was just rainwater and no expenditure was incurred, the quantities were still substantial.

I would like to say that it is immoral for the Government to make this comment. The Government seems to be saying that though there are cracks in the rooftop water tanks of residential buildings, causing constant water seepage, we should not get worried. As the water does not pass through meters, no charges will be imposed and it does not matter even if there is water seepage. The Government's argument is that water which does not pass through meters will not be charged and thus can be wasted. Yet, this argument is completely untenable.

In addition, we are paying a lot for the Dongjiang water right now. Malaysia exports fresh water to Singapore but it only charges a few cents per cu m while we are paying $4.8 or more than $5 per cu m. Dongguan also purchases Dongjiang water but it only pays a few cents per cu m while Shenzhen pays more than $1 per cu m. Dongjiang water is sold to us at a few dollars per cu m, a few times more than the price paid by Shenzhen.

Certainly, under "one country, two systems", Dongguan and Shenzhen are still within Mainland China while Hong Kong is outside Mainland China. Hong Kong is not an overseas territory for the Kowloon Peninsula is still connected to the Mainland. Nonetheless, as we uphold "one country, two systems" and "Hong Kong people ruling Hong Kong", we are charged more as we have our own way.

9168 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Most importantly, in a free market, if one is willing to buy, someone will be willing to sell. Is this a free market, Chairman? It seems that money for the purchase of Dongjiang money has been forcibly taken away. They may say that since we are willing to buy, they are willing to sell; and it is not a matter of us being robbed. If there is a drought in South China all of a sudden and fresh water is badly needed, should Hong Kong still be required to purchase 820 million cu m of water, and must we pay first before getting the water? This would be unfair to South China. Is this the current requirement? Why should Dongjiang water be supplied to Hong Kong first? Since we have already paid, the Mainland has the financial and contractual liabilities to ensure water supply to Hong Kong while we must purchase at least 820 million cu m of water.

As I have said at the outset, we purchase Dongjiang water at a high price, but can we try to become self-sufficient and explore the desalination technology? I understand that the Development Bureau has started handling the desalination project and the setting up of desalination plants, but the costs are alarming. The unit cost of desalinated water means the unit cost of each cu m of fresh water but the unit cost does not include the distribution and customer services costs.

The cost of fresh water in Singapore is $6.1 per cu m and the cost in the United States is more or less the same, that is, $6.2 per cu me. The cost of fresh water in some places is much higher, up to $8.3, and the cost is even higher in Australia at $9.3 or more. We like to compare Hong Kong and Singapore because Hong Kong has become increasingly similar to Singapore. However, our government is not as authoritarian as the Singapore Government and its authoritarian and hegemonic rule is cheap and foolish. This is a digression. The cost of fresh water in Singapore is $6 per cu m and water is also supplied through desalination. But the cost of fresh water in Hong Kong is really high, at $12 to $13.

We have repeatedly asked the Secretary for Development similar questions but his reply is vague because he is not an expert in this area, nor is he an engineer. He thus cannot answer the questions. The Government has also given me a very strange reply. The unit water production cost of the Tseung Kwan O desalination plant (excluding the distribution and customer services costs) is $8.3 to $9.1 per cu m while the figures previously provided by the authorities are $12 to $13. This is the unit cost, excluding the distribution and customer services costs. On closer look … I am not sure if there is a typo or this is the art of double-talk of the authorities. I will continue to pursue but I completely fail to understand the Administration's reply written in Chinese. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9169

Chairman, this is not purely an issue about water, it also relates to China-Hong Kong conflicts. I vividly remember that we organized a Support RTHK movement because the Government wanted to "dry up" RTHK, causing it to disappear. We set up a forum on the streets in Mong Kok and the speakers included the Chairman of the RTHK staff union. There was also an Anti-RTHK movement, and those who joined the movement chided all forum participants including me for showing no gratitude. They even asked us what kind of water we were drinking. I held up a bottle of water and said that I bought this bottled water produced locally by Watsons Water. Water is not imported to Hong Kong from the Mainland free of charge; we pay a very high price for the water. Mainland residents have a misconception that water is bestowed to Hong Kong people.

We are not receiving alms but we pay a very high price for the water. This argument appears unreasonable, in order to … LEUNG Chun-ying often talks about "China-Hong integration", if the Government cares about "China-Hong integration", it should seriously consider the issue of Dongjiang water. Apart from being a natural resource and the need of which is a human right, water also involves a political issue. Some residents in Shenzhen and Guangdong may misunderstand why priority is given to supplying water to Hong Kong while they do not have enough water? In fact, the Mainland authorities have already been paid, even though we do not need that much water. Indeed, the overflow quantities are alarming and we are totally surprised, or gobsmacked, in modern term.

Chairman, we are talking about the resources of the WSD but not the problem of the Director of Water Supplies himself or the operational and governance problems of the WSD. There are problems with government policies; we spend billions of dollars to purchase water every year and we are going to spend $4.5 billion next year. Can the authorities consider slightly reducing the quantity of water to be purchased, leaving the excess to meet the needs of residents in South China? We should at the same time, make effort to save on water, so that we would not have to discharge water in reservoirs to the sea, or dump our money into the sea.

Officials may say that no more Dongjiang water will be wasted from 2016 onwards; yet, the Government has already paid. Thank you.

9170 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Chairman, you said in the last session that my remarks were irrelevant to the subject under discussion. Let me speak on head 37 which is related to the Department of Health …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): It is the Department of Health and I believe you have done your "homework".

MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): One of the main programmes operated by the Department of Health (DH) is the Elderly Health Care Voucher Scheme (Scheme), which was proposed by the Chief Executive in the 2007-2008 Policy Address. After a lapse of five to six years, how effective is the Scheme now? Initially, the Government performed badly, which was typical. It provided vouchers worth $250 only, which was a very small amount.

What could people do with $250? Honourable officials and Members, how much would you pay for a decent meal? If the Directors or the Permanent Secretaries of Policy Bureaux invite Members of the Legislative Council to a meal ― I have not been invited by them or by the President for a long time ― the cost per person was $450 in the past as far as I can remember, and the amount will probably be increased to about $500 now, am I right? In 2012, the voucher amount was only $250 for each elderly person, the amount was later increased to $500 and then to $1,000 starting from 1 January 2013.

Furthermore, all eligible elderly persons are each provided annually with 20 healthcare vouchers of $50. Is the person who designed the vouchers oblivious to the plights of the people? Is he from Mars? What can one do with a $50 voucher? Owing to inflation, the Government has to issue banknotes with a higher face value. Since the vouchers are not very useful, many elderly persons will do one thing to protect themselves. They will save up the vouchers. When they feel unwell, they will take Chinese herbal tea or proprietary Chinese medicine, and so on, but it will be a big problem if they have an acute illness. Since many elderly persons tend to save up the vouchers, the Government considers the voucher utilization rate unsatisfactory.

Chairman, let me give Members a simple example. In the last two years, I talked about the problem of dental clinics. Chairman, tooth loss, though a natural process, is the biggest problem for the elderly. As the Chinese saying LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9171 goes, "Hard to forget even after one's teeth fall out". As one grows old, one will gradually lose his teeth. Although we, the filibustering Members, have been discussing this problem over the past two years, the Government fails to set up a dental clinic in each of the 18 administrative districts in Hong Kong and so some elderly persons have to seek dental services outside their local district. Another problem is that the Government only provides teeth extraction service but not filling or crowning service. Does the person who designed the dental services live in Mars? If crowning or filling is not provided after teeth extraction, the gums will contract and cause other problems. When problems arise, the elderly person has to extract more teeth; he will soon become "toothless" and "will not forget" the pain.

Chairman, even though we have increased the annual voucher amount repeatedly and allow the elderly to accumulate the voucher amount to $3,000, the amount of $3,000 is, frankly speaking, insufficient for them to receive treatment at a dental clinic for extraction of two teeth and crowning. I had many bad teeth in the past and it was painful for me to sip cold water. However, I was provided with medical allowance by the Legislative Council and so I could seek dental treatment. Buddy, an elderly person with the accumulated voucher amount of $3,000 still cannot afford to pay the costs of crowning for two teeth. For conscience's sake, Chairman, do you think the voucher designed by the DH can meet the needs of the elderly?

Buddy, you may say I am repeating myself again. I made this comment a year ago, and I also made the same comment two years ago, but no improvement has been made so far. Many elderly persons told me that they do not want vouchers, they want dental service instead, and it would be best if the waiting time for getting accident and emergency service and getting a place at infirmaries can be shortened. However, the Government only provides vouchers and leaves the elderly to solve their own problems. If they cannot wait until the implementation of a National Health Service (NHS), they will have to seek private medical consultation. Buddy, what is the point of giving an elderly person $3,000; if we use the money to buy salt and vinegar, the salt is not salty enough and the vinegar is not sour enough. What is he going to do?

Despite repeated demands, the Government still refuses to let the elderly make purchases with healthcare vouchers. That is very strange, Buddy. Some elderly persons may have the need to buy certain appliances to be used at home. For example, Members may know that I hurt my feet during a soccer game some 9172 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 time ago. I bought a foot spa machine in Shenzhen which cost $700 and I sometimes use it in the Legislative Council Complex. I can afford to pay $700, but if an elderly person has a problem with his foot … foot health will affect general health, as in the case of oral health. We know that some elderly persons complain about the long waiting time for out-patient service and the service is not specialized enough to cater for their special needs. Simply put, some elderly persons may have the special need of foot spas. What kind of system is it if it does not allow the elderly to use the vouchers to buy drugs or health appliances? What kind of system is it if it does not allow the elderly to use the vouchers to obtain medical services from the private market? Who are the people that the Government really intends to help? Chairman, I have never seen any government which is so shameless.

If we do not speak in the debates of this budget, this problem will not get any attention. If we only raise the problem at a panel meeting, the Government will not give a damn about what we say. The Panel Chairman will ask members to raise hands to signify their intention to speak at the meeting. All members will raise their hands and after speaking for four minutes each, they will go to have dim-sum in a Chinese restaurant. I raise this problem today in the hope that the Government would listen to our views and consider our amendments seriously. Chairman, I think the Government has the responsibility to yell us when a dental clinic will be set up in each district? Does the proposal involve any difficulties? How difficult is it?

Besides, why do the elderly have to wait so long for out-patient service or elderly health centre services? Does the Government have any timetable or roadmap to shorten the waiting time? If not, how is it going to improve the system? In other words, if the Government will not adopt a NHS ― just now the Chairman said I have digressed, but I cannot help but digress ― it will have to implement a Health Protection Scheme, but the authorities have not responded to that proposal.

Chairman, have you heard that a dentist providing dental services in a public hospital has to look after 1 000 patients? According to the information obtained by us, the ratio of 1:1 000 rarely exists in advanced countries. Frankly speaking, that is pathetic. Take the NHS of the United Kingdom as an example. In the United Kingdom, all persons aged below 19 ― I will not talk about elderly persons for the moment ― will receive free orthodontic treatment if the dentist considers it necessary. Buddy, if a person's dental problem is fixed at a young LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9173 age and his conditions are regularly checked by a dentist, he will not have any problem when he grows old. However, as many Members have said, the participation rate in the School Dental Care Service in Hong Kong is less than 100%.

The Financial Secretary often says that he does not want to "hand out candies". I do not want his "candies"; and he needs not provide a rebate of $20,000 salary tax to me. Instead, I want to ask whether he can use the $20,000 to help other people? What is his financial philosophy? He wants to refund tax to the rich and those who can afford to see a dentist. Just try to visualize, if a grass-roots elderly person is lucky enough to be exempted from paying one month's public housing rent and he gets "double payment" or "triple payment" under the Comprehensive Social Security Assistance, his position is still a lot worse than those who get back a few thousand dollars to consult a dentist. If the Financial Secretary does not refund tax to those people … can he set up a dental clinic in each district, reduce the waiting time for elderly health centre services or reduce the waiting time for cataract surgeries which is three years at present? These proposals are feasible, aren't they?

Let us consider the amount of money involved. The Government plans to "hand out candies" to rich people. Originally, the Government intends to levy tax on them, but since there is too much money in the public coffers, the tax paid is refunded. Chairman, the proposed tax refund will involve $20 billion-plus, but my proposals will definitely not cost that much. If the Government accepts our views, it should spend the $20 billion-plus on long-term investments, as proposed by some pro-establishment Members, to promote the health of young people and pregnant women … When I had a medical check-up in a hospital the other day, I found that the cost for a "singly non-permanent resident pregnant women" to give birth at a private hospital is $20,000-plus, which is very expensive.

The point is, though we can casually give out the tax refunded to us, the authorities have done nothing to improve the health of the elderly, an issue which we have been discussed for a long time. In that case, should we keep on filibustering? However, I am restrained by the Chairman from saying what I want to say today. Otherwise, I will be filibustering until the authorities set up dental clinics. I will stop now.

9174 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): Chairman, I want to speak on "Head 94 ― Legal Aid Department". While I do not oppose the block allocation of the Legal Aid Department (LAD), I wonder if it is an appropriate arrangement for the aided person to select lawyers or barristers in private practice who are on the Legal Aid Panel to represent him under the existing legal aid system, as many people have suggested in recent years. Does the arrangement warrant revision? I find it necessary for the Government to review the relevant arrangement to ensure the proper use of public resources and prevent abuse.

Chairman, the policy objective of providing legal aid is to ensure that no one with reasonable grounds for pursuing or defending a legal action is denied access to justice because of a lack of means. I am not refuting this policy objective, but after looking up the information of the LAD, I learnt that though there are more than 800 barristers and some 2 000 lawyers on the Legal Aid Panel, over 80% of the legal aid cases were assigned to lawyers and barristers having more than 10 years of experience. In an oral question raised by a Member in March 2014, he also said that, in the past four years, among the top 10 solicitors to whom the LAD assigned the most legal aid cases each year, the number of cases assigned to the solicitor on top of the list was higher than that to the solicitor ranked the 10th by roughly 80%. Does this clearly show that legal aid cases have been assigned to only a small group of lawyers? Is this outcome healthy and fair?

In the past, members from the taxi and public light bus sectors had expressed concern that the legal aid system might be abused, for example, law-breakers may involve in champerty or abet the injured in traffic accidents to exaggerate the degree of injuries sustained in order to claim for compensation. Insurance companies, on the other hand, have to increase the insurance premiums of motor vehicle as a result of the increasing compensation payouts, thereby imposing heavier pressure on the operation of the taxi and public light bus sectors. Although the Secretary for Home Affairs indicated that, in consultation with the Legal Aid Services Council and two legal professional bodies, a declaration system was put in place in September 2013 to ensure that the aided person's choice of lawyers has not been affected by any champertous or improper conduct on the part of the lawyers nominated, is the declaration system perfect? Can it eliminate the unlawful champertous activities?

Chairman, for aided person who has a standing relationship with a lawyer, it is natural for him to choose a lawyer from the Legal Aid Panel with whom he has a standing relationship if he is allowed to do so. But will this raise doubt on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9175 the interests between them? Or, can the declaration system just mentioned by me remove all doubts on the interests between them? For people who do not have a standing relationship with any lawyer but wish to choose one on their own, what criteria should they adopt? While it is natural and simpler to choose lawyers of higher reputation or popularity, I nonetheless do not think this is the fairest and most effective approach, nor is it in line with the principle of using public money properly.

Chairman, I strongly believe that all lawyers and barristers on LAD's Legal Aid Panel have attained the required professional standards and conduct, so it is viable to appoint lawyers or barristers on a rotation basis. This is at least a fairer way than to allow the aided persons to choose their own lawyers. I therefore hope that the Government would look squarely at the problem and seriously consider if suitable refinements should be made to the existing arrangement of allowing the aided persons to choose their own lawyers.

Chairman, I so submit.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, you said a moment ago that the meeting will end at 8 pm today and the first debate session will come to a close after another hour of debate tomorrow. This debate session covers a total of 21 heads of expenditure, and I have prepared loads of information. Earlier, I spoke twice for a total of 30 minutes about the Department of Health. I also spoke once about the Judiciary. I intend to speak again about the ex gratia payment because I was only half-way through it just now. Then I would like to speak about the Legal Aid Department. In respect of The Legislative Council Commission, I can tell you that I intend to speak about it for one hour and 30 minutes because I am personally involved in this head of expenditure.

Regarding the Registration and Electoral Office, recent rumours have it that there may be no election expense ceiling for future elections of the Chief Executive, which is indeed ridiculous. Hence, I would speak about it. Regarding the Government Flying Service, there is a chapter about it in the recently published report of the Audit Commission. I also intend to speak on "Head 169 ― Secretariat, Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance". As a number of Members have spoken about Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) today, I must make my voice heard, not least because some comments made by those Members are factually wrong.

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I do not understand why the Chairman made such an arrangement. How many hours of debate do we have in total, counting from 2 pm this afternoon until now, as well as one hour tomorrow? Do Members who propose the amendments have more opportunities to speak? Only six debates have been scheduled, and the whole Budget debate is supposed to last until the end of next month. Yet, Chairman, you have disallowed 3 000-odd amendments from "Long Hair", and he is spared from staying in the Chamber for several days to move his amendments …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, have you received the relevant paper issued by the Secretariat to all Members earlier?

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): I have not received that paper but I hold that this part …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): All Members should have received that paper. Please read it carefully and see if it is necessary to adjust the allocation of debate hours.

MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): I do not want to waste any time now. As you have made your decision, we cannot overturn it. I am not deliberately extending the debate time, just that many Members intend to speak on those heads of expenditure. Though Mr Tony TSE only spoke for a few minutes a moment ago, he has made some good points. Chairman, in overseas parliaments such as Taiwan and the United States, the process of scrutinizing the budget would last for two to three months. The situation in Hong Kong has been distorted by filibustering, and you dislike filibustering most; many Members of the pro-establishment camp also dislike filibustering. But the fact is that if all Members are to speak in the debate, the work cannot possibly be completed within two months …

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, the Council has actually spent more than three months in the scrutiny of the Budget including the special meetings of the Finance Committee held previously to examine the Draft Estimates. All those form part of the Council's work in examining the Budget.

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MR WONG YUK-MAN (in Cantonese): I get it. Let me continue with my speech. I will speak on "Head 160 ― Radio Television Hong Kong". As some Honourable colleagues mentioned a moment ago, with the non-renewal of the free domestic television programme services licence (free TV licence) of Asia Television Limited (ATV), RTHK would need to take over its analogue broadcasting services with two 24-hour channels. Some people reckon that with the non-renewal of ATV's free TV licence, the licence will be transferred to RTHK. They query whether RTHK can maintain such operation in the long run.

According to some Members, RTHK will take over ATV. Buddy, what are they talking about? ATV currently provides broadcasting services via its digital terrestrial TV (DTT) channels as well as two analogue TV channels (one each in English and Chinese). Under the law, ATV must surrender both its analogue TV and DTT channels. In other words, by 1 April next year, it must surrender everything including the transmission stations because they are installed on Government land. Under the Broadcasting Ordinance, such land should also be surrendered. According to the Government's current policy, analogue TV services will be switched off in 2020. While viewers can now receive analogue TV and DTT simultaneously, DTT will replace analogue TV services completely in the future. In other words, counting from 1 April 2016, there are only a few years left before 2020. No operator would be interested even if the Government is willing to hand the analogue TV channels over to a new entrant. That is why the Government can only hand them over to RTHK.

Nonetheless, the question is that RTHK also provides DTT services now via its RTHK 31, 32, 33, 34 and 35 channels (that is, two channels in Putonghua, two in English and one in Cantonese). With the Government's decision for RTHK to operate the two analogue channels, it can broadcast the DTT programmes in the analogue channels for a few years. According to previous arrangements, RTHK programmes would be broadcast in the analogue channels of the two free TV broadcasters, namely, ATV and Television Broadcast Limited (TVB), by rotation on a yearly basis. If the programmes are broadcast on TVB, there would be more viewers; if broadcast on ATV, there would be no viewer. Yet RTHK is still required to broadcast its programmes on the two free TV broadcasters by rotation.

At present, RTHK also provides DTT services. It can freely broadcast its programmes on the digital TV channels. Now two analogue TV channels may be given to RTHK to broadcast its programmes. What would be the financial implications? If two analogue channels are given to RTHK, it can produce more 9178 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 programmes, or even provide 24-hour news services. In fact, RTHK can even provide 24-hour news services now via its digital TV channels. With two more analogue TV channels (one in Chinese and one in English), RTHK must fill up the broadcast hours with more programmes. Apart from broadcasting the existing programmes, it may have to apply for additional funding from the Government in order to produce more programmes. But what is the Government's attitude? According to the Government, it would suffice for RTHK to just broadcast the existing programmes.

The technical issues will not present a problem as RTHK also shares the use of transmission stations with other free TV broadcasters now. Moreover, funding application has been made to provide additional transmission stations. What about the problems with manpower and programming? Obviously, the Government's approach is wrong. The crux is not about RTHK taking over ATV. I have no idea why Members did not read the papers.

Some Members suggested that RTHK has become a state-run TV station. Would RTHK become a state-run TV broadcaster just because it has two more channels? At present, RTHK is a public service TV and radio broadcaster. Its TV programmes as well as CCTV programmes are aired on channels 31, 32, 33 and 34.

RTHK's funding application for the development of a new Broadcasting House in Tseung Kwan O was rejected by the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB). The DAB's stance is simple. While RTHK is "raised and fed" by the Government, it uses public funds to oppose the Government. Mr Christopher CHUNG was quite excited when he expressed similar views at the meeting. Looking back at the development of public service broadcasting in Hong Kong, we can see that his view is nothing but superficial. Basically, RTHK has already become the official propaganda machinery. Yet they still criticize RTHK for slamming the Government with public funds. RTHK is actually at the crossroads of being a public broadcaster or the official propaganda machinery. Originally there was a consensus in society that notwithstanding the incurrence of public expenditure, RTHK should become an independent public service broadcaster, like the BBC in the United Kingdom. Yet things did not turn out that way. Eventually the Government only provided RTHK with additional funds to construct a new Broadcasting House, and it would continue providing public broadcasting services as a government department. Given the situation now, it is hardly surprising that Roy TANG has been severely criticized.

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Strangely though, the funding application of the new Broadcasting House … Of course, we noted various problems from the Government's paper including the substantial increase in construction costs, yet the responsible public officers could not give us a plausible explanation. As such, Members of the pro-establishment camp managed to reject the proposal. Therefore, in this year's Draft Estimates, RTHK can only draw up its budget on the basis of its previous establishment.

All Members have spoken about the Government's decision not to renew ATV's licence and to hand over two ATV channels to RTHK. Such a development has taken place after the Budget was drawn up by John TSANG. Hence, no adjustment can be made to the financial provisions under the Draft Estimates. The Government's decision for RTHK to operate the two channels, albeit for several years, would have cost implications. What should be done then? I think the Government should find a way out. In the future, RTHK will operate RTHK TV 31, two analogue channels and digital TV channels 31 to 35. If RTHK needs to produce a greater quantity of diversified programmes with its existing manpower or hardware or to operate 24-hour services, it will naturally impact severely on the ongoing broadcasting initiatives of RTHK.

With the non-renewal of ATV's licence, many companies are preying on the 1.5 multiplexes for digital broadcasting to be released. The analogue channels no longer pose any question as analogue TV services will be switched off in 2020. That is why the Government has handed them over to RTHK. Regarding the fixed network, the Communications Authority will likely give it to the existing holders of free TV licences including HK Television Entertainment Company Limited, or Fantastic Television Limited which will be granted with a licence soon. They are also preying on fixed network broadcasting services.

What arrangements would be made by the Communications Authority? In my view, the Communications Authority will consider how to assign the said spectrum in the new financial year. That is what we are given to understand. The Government has refused to renew the licence of a television broadcaster, yet the broadcaster is still allowed to operate for one more year. But the question is that ATV can close down any minute. In the next 12 months, it must continue to discharge its duties as the holder of a free TV licence while being supervised by the Communications Authority. This is a strange arrangement made by the Government because the broadcaster is already knee-deep in a financial crisis. What will happen if ATV can no longer continue operation? Yet the 9180 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015

Government insists that the broadcaster cannot cease operation or it will be sanctioned. What kind of sanction is that? It will be either the payment of fines or licence revocation. Isn't that hilarious? The Government has already sentenced ATV to death on 1 April, yet it is not allowed to die before its licence expires, or it would be sanctioned. As I have said time and again, Hong Kong will only have one free TV broadcaster any minute. What actions will be taken by the Government?

The Government has also treated RTHK in the same way, making it take over two analogue channels without giving it capital. What is it thinking? This is really a complete mess. I think the Communications Authority is duty-bound to sort things out. At present, the public are already quite skeptical about the Government's so-called broadcasting policy. On the one hand, the Government grants two free TV licences … Many people have no idea that under the two TV free licences, TV signals will be transmitted via fixed network. When applying for free TV licences, an applicant must have access to a fixed network. Therefore City Telecom has submitted an application. Yet the Government refused to grant it a licence. We now have two TV broadcasters, and one of them will cease operation soon. ATV provides TV service through the transmission of signals, previously only in analogue format and now also in digital format, via terrestrial airwaves. That is a simple fact in the development of broadcasting technology.

The Government's policy has failed to keep abreast of the times. That is why when problems occur, its handling has always ended in disasters. As the two analogue channels will lapse in a few years' time, the Government has decided to hand them over to RTHK. What can it do? To a large extent, it would depend on future development.

Now I would like to talk about another issue. In June last year, the management of RTHK announced new administrative arrangements to tighten the procedures for the further employment of all retiring staff (including both civil servants and non-civil service contract (NCSC) staff) across the board, despite the fact that no compulsory retirement age has been stipulated by the Civil Service Bureau for NCSC staff. Under the new arrangement, the further employment of retiring staff in any form (such as the general practice of further employing programme hosts under short-term contracts or service contracts for service providers, and so on) would require the personal approval of the Director of Broadcasting via the Departmental Administration Unit, and such approval would LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9181 be given on a discretionary and case-by-case basis. Given the current staff shortage of RTHK, serious problems would be created by these arrangements. Do Members representing the labour sector, say, the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions or the Labour Party, have anything to say about it?

In April last year, RTHK English TV Executive Producer, Mr Gary POLLARD, an NCSC staff, was notified by the management that his employment contract would not be renewed. All staff of the English TV section have twice written petition letters to the Director of Broadcasting, Roy TANG, but he just refused to account for the reasons of not exercising his discretion.

As we all know, RTHK also would not renew the contract of Joseph TSE, a contract staff of RTHK who has been the presenter of City Forum for 12 years, when he reaches the retirement age of 60 this year. While I have issues with TSE, he is a veteran broadcaster deserving to be further employed after retirement. Although RTHK now says that retired staff can be re-employed, complicated procedures are involved. Despite RTHK's manpower shortage, the Government still makes these arrangements. What can RTHK do in future? It must recruit new staff from outside in order to cope with various initiatives. Despite the acute manpower shortage, the Government still wants it to take over the two ATV channels. How can it stay afloat under such circumstances?

Chairman, I always speak with reasons. I still have a lot to say about RTHK, but you have already ordered that the debate will only continue for an hour tomorrow. I do not know if I still have the time to speak about The Legislative Council Commission. That brings me to the end of my speech today.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, no headcount has been done over the last two or three hours, but I think it is an insult that this Chamber is almost empty now. Chairman, please summon Members to return to the Chamber according to Rule 17(3) of the Rules of Procedure.

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber)

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CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Mr Albert CHAN, please continue with your speech.

MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, a number of Members have given their views on the dental services of the Department of Health (DH) earlier and I will not repeat what they have said in detail. Compared with the past, more Members have raised their concerns about the inadequacy of the DH's dental services and more Members have criticized the situation this year. Chairman, the reasons for this situation are very simple, just take a careful look at the financial provision and you will find the answer. Many Members have pointed out the situation, but they have not studied the relevant figures in detail.

Let me talk about "Head 37 ― Department of Health", which involves an expenditure of $6.4 billion. In Programme (7) Medical and Dental Treatment for Civil Servants, the two services are grouped together, and the expenditure amounts to $1.23 billion. Compared with the expenditure of last year which was only $1.08 billion, the rate of increase is 13.3%, which is not bad. This programme concerns both medical and dental treatment for civil servants and I believe a large part of the expenditure falls under medical services, but the expenditure for dental services is also significant. After taking care of the civil servants, the remaining resources that can be squeezed out to provide dental services for the general public will be minimal, or unreasonably disproportionate.

Chairman, with the provision of $1.2 billion for dental services, it is estimated that services will be provided for 700 000 attendances by the general public and 250 000 attendances by civil servants, totalling 950 000 attendances. The average cost per attendance is $1,296. It seems that that the cost is for providing general dental services, such as scaling and polishing, dental check-ups or even fillings for one or two teeth. However, Members would know that dental services also include dentures and root canal treatment or other complicated dental treatment which involves high costs.

Out of the provision of $1.2 billion, $44 million is allocated for implementing the Outreach Dental Care Programme for the Elderly this year. Services of the programme include scaling and polishing, denture cleaning, X-ray and other curative treatments. Spending $44 million to assist 20 000 elderly persons is better than doing nothing, but according to my personal judgment, it is apparently a public relations tactic employed by the Government. On the face of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 9183 it, it seems that the Government will help many elderly people by providing a variety of services to them, but in fact, serious dental problems of the elderly will not be resolved or alleviated by these services. Considering the figures alone, one can tell that dental services provided to the elderly are, in general, extremely inadequate.

Chairman, I believe you have a good memory and you would remember that I have kept mentioning the case of "steel teeth" of Tin Shui Wai in this Chamber. In addition, I have said many times that we can judge whether a government cares for its people by looking at the dental health of the elderly in society. We do not even have to draw comparisons with the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia or New Zealand. If we compare our situation with the more developed cities or regions in Southeast Asia, we will notice that the dental health of the elderly in Hong Kong is extremely poor. I can say that this is a very ugly situation.

Some Members mentioned that if a person has poor dental health, other aspects of his health will also be affected. In particular, poor eating will affect digestion and absorption. I will not repeat such views in detail. Instead, I will point out that inadequate dental services, especially those for the elderly, show that the Government is unscrupulous. Although I am very dissatisfied with this expenditure item, I cannot propose any amendment to reduce the amount. The reason is that if I propose to reduce the expenditure or oppose the financial provision concerned, the problems of the elderly will only aggravate.

Chairman, the next problem that I will speak about is "Head 163 ― Registration and Electoral Office" which involves an expenditure of $743 million. Chairman, I would simply raise one point regarding the expenditures under this head. I have been dissatisfied with many aspects of work of the Registration and Electoral Office for many years, but I would like to raise one point in brief here, and that is, the problem of electoral registration for young people. In fact, electoral registration is only a simple procedure. The problem may be related to the division of responsibilities among different government departments and a complete lack of sincerity or motivation of the Government in boosting the number of registered voters among young people.

As Members would be aware, if a greater number of 18-year-old citizens have successfully registered as voters, the pan-democratic camp will benefit more than the royalists. However, in order to favour the royalists in election, the Government has not adopted my proposal. For years, I have repeatedly put 9184 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 22 April 2015 forward a very simple way to improve the situation. When the Government issues new identity card to citizens who have reached the age of 18, it can authorize the Immigration Department to conduct electoral registration in the process. This can be done by adopting certain administrative procedures or amending the relevant legislation. This method will incur no additional expenditure, is that right? When a young person who has reached 18 applies for an identity card, the authorities can register him as a voter at the same time. Besides, I understand that when a member of the public applies for an identity card or a replacement of an identity card, he can register himself as a voter at the same time by completing certain procedures. However, voter registration is not necessarily an option available to a person who has reached 18 when he applies for an identity card. Furthermore, the authorities have failed to register persons who have reached 18 as voters at the time of issuing identity cards to them. Therefore, I think this kind of omission or deliberate failure to act obviously shows that the Government has formed a political judgment or opinion that young voters may not support the Government. Chairman, I must take this opportunity to condemn the Government and point out its ugliness.

Chairman, I would speak about another head of expenditure which concerns the Hong Kong Observatory (HKO). In fact, I have given my views on this head in the past two years. "Head 168 ― Hong Kong Observatory" involves an expenditure of $275 million. I will simply raise one point now. The HKO is actually a government department which receives more positive public comments than many others. Besides, the application software (app) of the HKO is the most popular among all the computerized services or electronic services of the Government. Members can ask their friends who have mobile phones which government apps they have installed in their phones. I am sure that the app of the HKO is the most popular. Despite the commendations, Chairman, I have to point out a problem. Considering the existing services provided by the HKO, its overall development and its estimated expenditure this year, I think the Government still lacks a sense of crisis. In the past, many natural catastrophes or serious disasters partly caused by human factors, including the nuclear power plant incident in Japan, natural catastrophes generated by earthquakes in Indonesia, or earthquakes, tornadoes, natural disasters, rainstorms, and so on which occurred in San Francisco or other places many years ago, if the observatories of those places were provided with advanced equipment and adequate manpower and appropriate systems, warnings or signals could have been issued earlier and losses and damage to the people could have been reduced as a result.

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Apparently, the Hong Kong Government has not made any deliberate attempt to increase the expenditure in this connection. For example, only $27.1 million has been provided this year under Programme (2) Radiation Monitoring and Assessment. Members would know that the problem of the Daya Bay Nuclear Power Plant and a number of developments in our nearby areas may increase the risk of nuclear radiation and its impact on Hong Kong. Inadequate financial provision in this respect or a lack of vision in the provision of the services concerned would result in a lack of precautionary measures and when a disaster occurs, Hong Kong people would be unable to take refuge immediately, thereby increasing the risks to their lives and personal safety.

Furthermore, in the past two years in particular, there were insufficient warnings or information of rainstorms. Therefore, problems occurred in many areas in Hong Kong and a shopping centre even became a scenic spot for viewing a "waterfall". Recently, something more ridiculous happened ― Chairman, it has nothing to do with the HKO ― water seepage problems occurred in a number of places soon after the commissioning of the new railway line. I believe it will be helpful if the HKO can provide more comprehensive and accurate rainfall forecasts. Recently, a number of reports showed that the visibility for drivers using the Tsing Ma Bridge during rainstorms was zero and so the risk of accidents was increased. If information provided by the HKO can be enhanced and improvements can be made to the technology, resources and manpower available to it, I believe general safety in Hong Kong can be improved.

SUSPENSION OF MEETING

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 9 am tomorrow.

Suspended accordingly at 7.57 pm.