X-Ray Magazine L Issue 65

JonasPoseidon’s CEO Brandt — From Cars to CCRs SE7EN rebreather Text by Peter Symes and Michael Menduno Photos courtesy of Peter Symes and Poseidon The CEO of Poseidon discusses his move from the automotive industry to diving, big data, the role of automation, safety and the future of rebreather diving.

X-RAY MAG: What was your first kind of work did you do? diving experience and what got you interested in diving? JB: I spent 15 years in the car and automation industry JB: I’ve always been a keen diver mainly working with inte- since I was a boy. Living close to grated automation systems the water, snorkeling and water in cars and advanced car sports has always been a natural manufacturing equipment— part of my life. Sport diving was everything from basic factory never a big thing for me. I spent automation, to heavy robotics more time as a freediver and an applications in body in white underwater rugby player. My real [BIW] plants, to design of cool- passion for diving started when I ant systems in one of the later became involved in the develop- Volvo cars, the V60 hybrid. ment of the Poseidon MKVI. X-RAY MAG: How did you get X-RAY MAG: What was your first involved with Poseidon? dive on a rebreather like and in what way did it change your JB: I was actually involved in perception of diving? another company first What kind of rebreath- Primarily it is (DP Scandinavia), then er was it? the underwater later bought Poseidon in the fall of 2007. The sensors. JB: The CEO role JB: It was actually in experience that is company was set up After a while we realized in a small company the pool at Poseidon the key for future to develop the Cis that we needed good regulators. could potentially be trying out one of the innovation. Lunar MKVI that later Then Poseidon became a natural somewhat combined with first prototypes of the became the Poseidon first stop since it was close by. I the CTO role, and being MKVI. And yes, it changed my Discovery. After setting up the contacted Poseidon and their hands on with product devel- perception of diving big time MKVI project together with Kurt technical manager at that time, opment is very important for me since I was always annoyed by Sjöblom, Bill Stone, Rich Pyle, Nigel Yaniv Bertele. This was my first real as an engineer. Being the CEO the mechanical way of breathing Jones, Barry Coleman and Jörgen contact with Poseidon as a com- the work is more financially- and and the noise from a “conven- Sahibzada, we spent quite a pany, even if I knew about them human resources-oriented, but tional” demand regulator. while defining the rebreather, the by name before that. I still have a laser focus on the layout of the unit and particular macro picture in terms of technol- X-RAY MAG: Before Poseidon you functionalities such as the cali- X-RAY MAG: Have you found it ogy development and products headed Brandt Systems. What bration and validation of the O2 different being a CEO vs. a CTO? pipeline. Being the CTO for the PETER SYMES PETER 35 X-RAY MAG : 65 : 2015 EDITORIAL FEATURES TRAVEL NEWS WRECKS EQUIPMENT BOOKS SCIENCE & ECOLOGY TECH EDUCATION PROFILES PHOTO & VIDEO PORTFOLIO The premium electric car, the Tesla Model S sedan (below center); The Volvo profile V60 Hybrid car (bottom left) Jonas Brandt other industries or businesses can we inspiration when I’m out sailing in sum- learn from? mer time. Obviously the interaction with customers and research and develop- JB: I’ve spent a lot of time looking at ment staff is a great source for ideas the aviation and car industry in terms and inspiration as well. I’m a hands on of development cooperation. Most of guy, with a strong feeling for what might the dive manufacturers are small and trigger people in terms of technology have limited budgets. To drive the dive and market, and I like speedy controlled industry forward, I’m certain that all processes; we get an idea in the com- manufactures could potentially win by pany, we solid-work it, and then we start cooperating around non-intellectual to build it, versus a vision-to-mission pro- property-related technologies especially cess. in rebreathers. Sometimes I believe that the dive industry is too small for its own X-RAY MAG: There are a several major good. features on the Poseidon rebreather that One of the greatest inspirations right represents a significant deviation from now is Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, who mainstream thinking most notably the PETER SYMES recently sensor configuration. For example how company has been the most chal- The evolution in cars has been huge; it did departing from the dogma of lenging work ever, trying to transform a is almost impossible today to even open three sensor voting logic come nearly static business and drive innova- the engine compartment and do some- into the picture? Would you say tion towards a paradigm shift in terms of thing by yourself. that Poseidon has fostered a equipment use, has been a great pleas- I want to transfer this philosophy work culture of thinking out of ure, combined with huge challenges— into diving, so divers are given the box? especially in terms of very conservative the same kind of support when divers, used to diving in a particular way. something is happening when JB: I think that thinking outside For me, change and evolution is always it’s not supposed to. I want to the box is very Scandinavian. good. give divers the time to think The level of freedom within before they act, based on the Swedish companies, at least, X-RAY MAG: You mentioned you have huge task load under water. gives everyone with an idea the

a background in the automotive indus- But primarily it is the underwa- TESLA MOTORS / WIKIMEDIA COMMONS chance to do some trial and error, with- try. What techniques and principles can ter experience that is the key for released all [electric car out any fears. That builds a very special and should be transplanted to the dive future innovation. I believe that patents] to all other car manufactur- company culture where innovation is a industry? with the MKVI and the SE7EN, Poseidon ers to use, only to drive the paradigm key driver. Building a sensor calibration

has taken the first step into autonomous forward quickly. I see lots of similarities and validation system for O2 sensors was JB: We take a lot of the technology diving, and we will continue down that in between electric cars and sports indeed more challenging than innova- around us today for granted. We have path without taking the diver out of the rebreathers. The buyers are skeptical, tive. It was just a different approach in anti-spin regulation, traction control equation. the cost is higher, the infrastructure is not doing things. Calibration of sensors is and ABS [anti-lock brak- in place and the user behavior is differ- nothing new, but to provide a means to ing system] as integral X-RAY MAG: ent. It takes a strong entrepreneur with do it automatically during start up was. parts of our cars What stamina to drive these kinds of cases— today, compared just like Poseidon X-RAY MAG: One of your innovations to 20 years ago. is the blackbox/data logger on your When you drive your X-RAY MAG: Do you have any units. I understand it collects massive car today, do you role models, and from where amounts of data. Users can then upload really consider that do you get your inspiration their data to a central database. How several computers and best ideas? much data have you accumulated?

actually are in control OVERLAET / WIKIMEDIA COMMONS What have you been learning from and assist you in terms JB: My creativity comes from all this data? Any trends? Surprises? of steering, braking and other places than the office. Revelations? controlling the car? I normally get most of my

PETER SYMES

36 X-RAY MAG : 65 : 2015 EDITORIAL FEATURES TRAVEL NEWS WRECKS EQUIPMENT BOOKS SCIENCE & ECOLOGY TECH EDUCATION PROFILES PHOTO & VIDEO PORTFOLIO THIS PAGE: Archival photos The Poseidon of early production at the Rebreather profile Poseidon plant in Sweden MKVI JB: We have proposed the instructor market was saturat- stream? Is it mainly a question of the same or decreasing? the sharing of data to ed with units, and instructors had marketing, technology or econo- DAN, as early as the to build time to get instruction my? JB: This is something that we Rebreather Forum 3 in going. During 2014 we have seen do not know for sure since 2012, but DAN has not a 100 percent increase in terms of JB: We need to simplify and we do not have accurate really been keen on sold units versus 2013, which sup- develop a system that enhances data from all manufactur- hosting the data, so it’s ports my first sentence that we the experience and provides ers in terms of numbers of a continual process to see end consumers buying units in breathable gas in a reliable way conducted dives. A joint find the right host. a much larger scale than before. to the diver without compromising database of just numbers of safety. In terms of safety, we have logged dives from all manu-

X-RAY MAG: What are X-RAY MAG: Many dive industry come a long way, but there are facturers would be a good POSEIDON the current trends? people expected rebreathers to start. In terms of safety, Who is actually buying take off a lot quicker than they we took a huge rebreathers, and is it the have. What do you see as the step forward same groups that you obstacles? Or do you think the and launched first expected? growth path has been what it new technol- should be? ogy for sensor Ultimately, JB: Right now we see monitoring (auto we would like end consumers walking JB: Obviously training, accumu- calibration and valida- to give the diver into our dealers buy- lating dive hours, etc, is a hurdle tion). Unfortunately, parts more time to decide what to do ing SE7EN rebreathers. that I spoke about previously, but of the dive industry met this next rather than [having to act Previously, the main cus- in essence, the biggest hurdle with skepticism. Again, divers immediately]. tomer base has been for divers, and in particular new desire to be able to manipu- instructors. We peaked divers, is time. It takes quite some late and do everything by X-RAY MAG: An operator recently time to learn how to dive, themselves in a task-loaded stated to me that while he was and once you have set environment, rather than otherwise interested in becoming POSEIDON time aside, it’s not even sure breathing in an almost a rebreather-friendly operation, JB: The amounts of data that we that you find yourself com- autonomous system which the lack of common standards log in the units are huge and are fortable diving. Compared makes decisions—advice on between brands of rebreathers a key to be able to understand to other sports such as ski- what divers should do must made stocking the various spares how people dive with our ing, tennis, etc, the bar in be the correct thing to do. and different consumables both a products. We log strictly dive data terms of time and money and no personal data to respect is much higher. I believe

privacy laws, etc. I would say that technology is something POSEIDON we are most likely the Google of that can change this pat- diving in terms of the amount of tern and drive the business still hurdles to overcome without data we have on our servers right forward. The business needs adding complexity. The economy now. Currently, our database is to evolve and not kill itself is important but not as important measured in hundreds of millions by only competing with as we think, compared to bicy- of events, and we log about price. We need to see new cling where we see a boom due 30 events per second during a types of breathing equip- to carbon fiber entering the sport dive. To be able to analyze and ment and breathing systems market in a similar way that tennis quantify data is probably one of being born, such as the evolved years ago. In marketing our best product development Poseidon MKVI or SE7EN, for terms, the biggest challenge will tools. the dive industry to survive be to attract new young divers. long term. X-RAY MAG: I understand that X-RAY MAG: To date, the incident you share this data with DAN. Are POSEIDON X-RAY MAG: Recreational rates on rebreathers have been other rebreathers manufacturers rebreathers have come a significantly higher than open- doing this too? What has been in terms of sold units during 2012, long way. What do you see as circuit diving (see Rebreather done with this data to date? then 2013 was a disappointment, the main upcoming challenges Forum 3). Is rebreather diving What has been learned? but we realized after a while that to make them even more main- safety improving, staying about

POSEIDON

37 X-RAY MAG : 65 : 2015 EDITORIAL FEATURES TRAVEL NEWS WRECKS EQUIPMENT BOOKS SCIENCE & ECOLOGY TECH EDUCATION PROFILES PHOTO & VIDEO PORTFOLIO profile POSEIDON SE7EN the next Generation rebreather

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PETER SYMES logistical nightmare and economi- in the user at some point? What will the business look like cally unfeasible. How can this issue in five years? Ten years? Twenty be minimized, and is it something JB: Complacency is probably one years? on which you can collaborate with of the most pressing issues in div- other brands? ing, generally speaking. We need JB: I see a fast growing business in to automate the use of aviation the next five years, with about five JB: I was one of the founding standard checklists. Don-and-dive to ten percent of all new certifi- members of RESA [Rebreather has obvious drawbacks, but ulti- cates issued being on rebreathers. Get closer to Education and Safety Association] mately, we need to come to a I believe that at least ten percent marine life and my ultimate target for a place where responsible divers are of divers will dive rebreathers in ten no bubbles manufacturers’ organization was honored and become role models. years’ time. to drive standards in terms of lonGer dives commonalities in between the X-RAY MAG: How do you see the X-RAY MAG: And how about you? units—the same cylinders, valves future of diving? What do you Any personal hopes, goals or aspi- and scrubber would have been a see as the main challenges and rations with regards to diving? great step forward. Unfortunately, opportunities ahead? Have your RESA has been working solely with visions changed, and if so, in what JB: Not really. My goal is to make training standards and legal ques- manner have they been refined? Poseidon the driving force behind tions based on U.S. law interpreta- the paradigm shift from tion. We need to get to a situation JB: Our vision is still the Work OC [open circuit] to ECCR where the ‘throttle and the brake’ paradigm to have peo- [Electronic Closed Circuit are the same on all units. ple exchanging their old less, dive Rebreather] and build our open circuit equipment to more... brand even stronger in other X-RAY MAG: Is it possible to build closed circuit rebreathers, areas than just rebreathers, a fully automated don-and-dive but in the end, the industry needs in the next couple of years. It’s rebreather, and how far off are we to be more innovation across the very easy to become blindfolded, from that becoming a reality? board, to be profitable. It’s hard focusing on one new product and to reveal the whole product pipe- forgeting about the long heritage JB: We already built one, if you ask line in an interview, but frankly, the Posiedon has in terms of inven- me. There are, of course, functions vision has been intact over the tive and high performace prod- in the SE7EN that can be opti- years. However, the strategy to ucts outside the product group of mized, but yes, I do believe that reach our targets has been refined rebreathers. we built what you are referring to. and altered many times. In terms of diving, then it has to be something like: “Work less, dive X-RAY MAG: How far should we X-RAY MAG: What are your per- more.”  take automation in diving? Don’t sonal hopes, goals or aspirations www.poseidon.com Photo: © 2014 John W Nussbaum we risk introducing complacency for Poseidon’s rebreather business?

38 X-RAY MAG : 65 : 2015 EDITORIAL FEATURES TRAVEL NEWS WRECKS EQUIPMENT BOOKS SCIENCE & ECOLOGY TECH EDUCATION PROFILES PHOTO & VIDEO PORTFOLIO