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Academic Article correctional facility. During his work there, he learned how to help these A simulated interview teenagers shift from adolescent rebellion to mature self-growth. with William Glasser: Many of his ideas and strategies appear highly useful for clients of all ages. Part 1 – An ideology about Over his years spent conducting psychotherapy sessions, Glasser refined his views on responsibility of choice. Toward the end of By James C. Overholser, Ph.D., ABPP his career, Glasser shifted from treatment to prevention, emphasizing the important role that schools can play in the development of rational choices and adaptive behaviours. In 2013, Dr. Glasser died peacefully at his home in Los Angeles at the age of 88. Although his views on psychotherapy were developed more than 50 years ago, many of these concepts remain useful and relevant today. The remainder of this article will present a simulated interview with William Glasser (WG) conducted by James C. Overholser (JCO).

JCO: Thank you for meeting with me. I am eager to hear your views about psychotherapy.

WG: “I appreciate your coming here” (Glasser, 2000a, p. 223). “I want Introduction William Glasser was born in 1925 to talk with you, too” (Glasser, illiam Glasser developed an and raised in . He 2000a, p. 201). Wapproach to psychotherapy studied at Western Reserve College called , designed to where he earned a bachelor’s JCO: Great. Let’s get started. Why enhance self-control and responsible degree in chemical engineering in did you call your approach to decision-making. Glasser espoused 1945. After the war, he returned therapy ‘Reality Therapy’? views that promoted choice and to Cleveland to earn his Master’s personal responsibility aimed to Degree In In WG: “Patients, no matter what their satisfy basic human needs that are 1947, And His Medical Degree With psychiatric complaint, suffer from a common to all people. Although he Specialization In in 1953. universal defect: they are unable to was a board-certified psychiatrist, This odd mix of fields helped to fulfill their needs in a realistic way throughout his career, Glasser’s shape his pragmatic views of mental and have taken some less realistic approach focused on psychological illness and patterns of change. way in their unsuccessful attempts treatments instead of psychotropic After completing his training, to do so” (Glasser, 1965, p. 23). medications. Reality Therapy aims Glasser worked as Staff “In their unsuccessful effort to to help clients gain control of their Psychiatrist at the Ventura School fulfill their needs, no matter what lives. for Delinquent Girls, a residential behaviour they choose, all patients

4 Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy Volume 19 • Issue 3 • Autumn 2019 IJCP have a common characteristic: happy, we need to get along they all deny the reality of the world eople are driven well with the people in our lives” around them” (Glasser, 1965, p. “Pto abnormal (Glasser, 2003, p. xxi). “Our 6). behaviour by loneliness inability to get along with the and by feelings of important people in our lives is JCO: So these basic needs guide our worthlessness” the only psychological problem behaviour? that we all have to deal with. It (Glasser in Berges, 1976, p. 10) causes divorce, school failure, bad WG: “Oh, yes” (Glasser in Brandt, parent-child relationships and bad 1988, p. 43). “Except for those situations at work (Glasser, 2016, who live in deepest poverty, WG: No, not at all” (Glasser in p. 55). “People who kill themselves the psychological needs - love, Gough, 1987, p. 662). “The most are having great difficulty satisfying power, freedom, and fun – takes difficult problems are human one or more of their psychological precedence over the survival relationship problems” (Glasser, needs for love, power, or freedom. needs” (Glasser in Gough, 1987, 1997a, p. 598). “What I believe But most of the evidence points to p. 656). “Besides survival … we is the source of almost all clients’ their inability to find sufficient love” are genetically programmed to problems: the lack of satisfying (Glasser, 1993b, p. 18). try to satisfy four psychological present relationships” (Glasser, needs: love and belonging, power, 2000a, p. xvii). “We are social JCO: In your view, psychological freedom, and fun. All our behaviour creatures, we need each other” problems are caused by bad is always our best choice, at the (Glasser in Onedera & Greenwalt, choices? time we make the choice, to satisfy 2007, p. 80). one or more of these needs” WG: “That’s an important question” (Glasser, 1998, p. 28). “Satisfying JCO: So the search for love and (Glasser, 2000a, p. 54). “We one or more of these needs feels belongingness creates the central choose essentially everything very good” (Glasser, 1997b, p. 17). human need? we do, including the behaviours that are commonly called mental JCO: Are some needs disturbed or WG: “All long-lasting psychological illnesses” (Glasser, 2000a, p. pathological? problems are relationship xv). “If we focus on the symptom, problems” (Glasser, 1998, p. we enable the client to avoid the WG: “The needs of all people, 333). “All unhappy people have the real problem, which is improving normal or abnormal, are the same” same problem: They are unable present relationships” (Glasser, (Glasser, 1960, p. 3). “The strength to get along well with the people 2000a, p. 23). of each need is fixed at birth and they want to get along well with” does not change” (Glasser, 1998, (Glasser, 1998, p. 5). “All our lives, JCO: Do you believe that depression p. 91). “What gives us our different we search for ways to satisfy our is due to relationship problems? personalities is that our five basic, needs for love, belonging, caring, or genetic, needs differ in strength” sharing, and cooperation” (Glasser WG: “Right” (Glasser in Onedera (Glasser, 1998, p. 91). in Gough, 1987, p. 657). “When we & Greenwalt, 2007, p. 80). “To fail to connect with other people … me, everything boils down to JCO: In modern society, why do so we suffer because the need to do relationships” (Glasser, Haight, & many clients continue to struggle? so is as much built into our genes Shaughnessy, 2003, p. 410). “I as the need to survive” (Glasser, believe people are unhappy because WG: “While the traditional struggle 2000a, p. 1). “Satisfying the need they are not getting along as well as for a goal – a job, a diploma, a for love and belonging is the key they would like with the important home, a secure family – still exists, to satisfying the other four needs people in their lives” (Glasser, now suddenly it has been preceded (Glasser, 2000a, pp. 22-23). 2016, p. 31). “People are driven to by the struggle to find oneself as a abnormal behaviour by loneliness human being” (Glasser, 1975, p. 2). JCO: Why are relationship problems and by feelings of worthlessness” so important? (Glasser in Berges, 1976, p. 10). JCO: So you do not focus on a client’s academic success or career WG: “We are by our nature social JCO: So how do clients “fix” this advancement? creatures and to be healthy or situation?

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WG: “To gain control over our lives, Some of these ways are very we need to get along well with he psychiatric irresponsible, debilitating, and those close to us” (Glasser, 2013, “Testablishment crazy” (Glasser, 2016, p. 44). p. 131). “I focus on four major has replaced science relationships … husband-wife, with common sense. JCO: This is all very helpful. If it parent-child, teacher-student, and If you have symptoms, would be okay, let me shift topics manager-worker” (Glasser, 1998, something must be a bit. As a psychiatrist, do you p. ix). “I don’t believe that there wrong with your brain” see mental illness as a biological are hundreds of human problems, malfunction? but only one and that is learning to (Glasser, 2003, p. 17). get along better with the important WG: “No, not at all” (Glasser in people in our lives and removing Gough, 1987, p. 662). “The basic all of the external control that we WG: “Getting rid of the deadly habits human problem has nothing to do can from our lives” (Glassser, in all your relationships is central with the structure or physiology of 2016, p. 181). to leading a happier life” (Glasser, our brain” (Glasser, 2003, p. xxi). 2013, p. 11). “I never use the JCO: What do you mean by external deadly habits with anyone. I never JCO: Has your opinion of control? criticize, never blame” (Glasser medications changed over the in Robey & Wubbolding, 2012, p. years? WG: “Let me explain” Glasser, 29). “To replace the deadly habits, 2000a, p. 179). “You don’t try there are seven caring habits WG: “No, it hasn’t” (Glasser, to change people around you” (Glasser & Glasser, 2007, p. 34) … 1996b, p. 176). “The psychiatric (Glasser in Onedera & Greenwalt, “supporting, encouraging, listening, establishment has replaced 2007, p. 80). “The world is accepting, trusting, respecting, and science with common sense. If dominated by what I call the seven negotiating differences” (Glasser in you have symptoms, something deadly habits of external control - Onedera & Greenwalt, 2007, p. 85). must be wrong with your brain” criticizing, blaming, complaining, (Glasser, 2003, p. 17). “I think nagging, threatening, punishing, JCO: Wow! These are great ideas, there’s nothing wrong with and bribing” (Glasser, 2000b, p. but I don’t know how to implement your brain” (Glasser, Haight, & 79). “If we use external control them in daily action. Shaughnessy, 2003, p. 408). psychology which is ‘I know what “The basic human problem has is right for you and I’m going to WG: “The only behaviour we can nothing to do with the structure change you’, it will harm your control is our own” (Glasser, or physiology of our brain. We are relationships” (Glasser in Nelson, 1996a, p. 20). “In my relationship by our nature social creatures and 2002, p. 98). “Get rid of the to other people, I can only control to be mentally healthy or happy, seven deadly habits that, given my own behaviour. Any attempt to we need to get along well with enough time, will put an end to any control their behaviour will harm the the people in our lives” (Glasser, relationship” (Glasser, 2000a, p. relationship” (Glasser in Onedera 2003, p. xxi). 54). “In my opinion, criticizing is & Greenwalt, 2007, p. 80). “We by far the single most destructive can only control our own behaviour, JCO: So mental illness is not caused behaviour we use as an attempt so you should talk solely about by biochemical deficiencies? to take charge of our lives” what you are willing to do, not what (Glasser, 2013, p. 136). “These you want others to do” (Glasser, WG: “Those who believe in mental are the things that husbands 1998, p. 98). “If you are tolerant of illness assume incorrectly that do to wives, that parents do to yourself and others, you will have a something definite is wrong with children, teachers do to children, much better chance for happiness” the patient which causes him bosses do to employees. All of (Glasser, 2000a, p. 81). to be the way he is” (Glasser, these are behaviours that harm the 1976b, p. 95). “Most of the relationship” (Glasser in Onedera & JCO: So how do I help my clients people we call mentally ill are Greenwalt, 2007, p. 84). make this change in perspective? choosing behaviours that they believe are most satisfying for JCO: So what should we do about WG: “People all attempt to satisfy them at the time, even though these bad habits? their needs in a variety of ways. to us they are self-destructive”

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(Glasser in Brandt, 1988, p. to regain control over their lives, 42-43). “If we examined all … uge quantities of these drugs have benefit, but used depressed people carefully, we “Hantidepressant … to cure, they promise a hope that would find that out of the millions drugs are prescribed in they cannot fulfill” (Glasser, 2013, who suffer, there are a few whose the vain hope that they p. 114). “The medications are … depression is caused by some will cure a non-existent harmful … they don’t really deal chemical abnormality” (Glasser, disease. Again, used in with the problem” (Glasser, Haight, 2013, p. 113). “I have given up & Shaughnessy, 2003, p. 408). thinking of human unhappiness small doses as temporary as some sort of mental illness relief until patients can JCO: If medications are caused by something mysterious be counselled to regain inappropriate, then psychotherapy going on in the brain” (Glasser, control over their lives, is key? 2002, p. 2). these drugs have benefit, but used to cure, they WG: “I am a firm believer in JCO: But so many people view the effectiveness of good mental illness as a form of illness? promise a hope that they psychotherapy, and I do not support cannot fulfill” the current wide use of psychiatric WG: “That is a fatal flaw” (Glasser, drugs. People with serious (Glasser, 2013, p. 114). 1993a, p. 37). “The mental health problems cannot be made whole by system is not a mental health chemicals” (Glasser, 1980, p. 59). system. It’s a mental illness WG: “That’s right” (Glasser in “Psychotropic medication tends to system!” (Glasser, Haight, & Brandt, 1988, p. 44). “I do not remove responsibility for behaviour” Shaughnessy, 2003, p. 408). “If prescribe psychiatric drugs” (Glasser & Zunin, 1979, p. 333). there is a medical illness which (Glasser, 2000b, p. 78). “I have “If we believe that what we do is applies to psychiatric problems, never used medications” (Glasser, caused by forces outside of us, it is not illness but weakness. 2016, p. 44). “The danger of we are acting like dead machines” While illness can be cured by psychiatric drugs is now coming (Glasser, 2013, p. 5). removing the causative agent, out of the closet” (Glasser, 2004, weakness can be cured only by p. 341). “I have been able to treat JCO: So you believe that both strengthening the existing body people with good success without recreational drugs and prescription to cope with the stress of the medications and therefore never drugs are dangerous? world” (Glasser, 1976b, p. 96). felt any need to turn to the use of “The less than mentally healthy, these medications” (Glasser, 2016, WG: “Why not? It’s the truth” unhappy, symptomatic people p. 45). (Glasser, 2003, p. 52). “In most are mentally out of shape … instances drug use, legal or they do not know what to do to JCO: But so many people want illegal, stands squarely in the way become happier and get rid of their medications for psychological of effective therapy” (Glasser, symptoms” (Glasser, 2004, p. problems. These ideas seem 1980, p. 59). “Drugs are harmful 340). “Weakness is the cause of like a drastic shift coming from a for people with failure identities almost all the unfortunate choices psychiatrist. because they make the loneliness, we make” (Glasser, 1976a, p. 1). the failure, and the self-involvement “It’s the doing, the moving toward WG: “I don’t think any of my ideas tolerable. In doing so, the drugs applying yourself physically and are drastic” (Glasser in Nelson, negate the purpose of the pain: mentally to what you want that 2002, p. 97). “We absolutely to warn us that our companion, builds your strength” (Glasser, cannot depend on long-term use of self-involvement, is working poorly 1976c, p. 70). “Strength comes drugs to do anything except get in at best. They allow us to sit on from making a commitment to the way” (Glasser, 2013, p. 115). the hot stove and not feel the pain work for what you want” (Glasser, “Huge quantities of antidepressant even though we know we are being 1976c, p. 70). … drugs are prescribed in the vain burned” (Glasser, 1975, p. 50). hope that they will cure a non- “When the pain is anesthetized, JCO: So you don’t rely on existent disease. Again, used in the best motivation to become medications for treating your small doses as temporary relief responsibly involved is removed” patients? until patients can be counselled (Glasser, 1975, p. 51).

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JCO: So pain provides the leverage, to increase the patient’s strength together” (Glasser, 2000a, p. 208). or motivation, for change? so that he can bear the necessary “I’ll see you next week” (Glasser, pain of a full life as well as enjoy 2000a, p. 181). WG: “Right” (Glasser in Brandt, the rewards of a deeply responsible 1988, p. 42). “When we suffer any existence” (Glasser, 1976b, p. pain, mental or physical,…we must 101). Jim Overholser try to do something to reduce the pain” (Glasser, 2000a, p. 1). JCO: Should we take a short break? Jim Overholser is a professor JCO: And then the therapist can use WG: “I guess you are hungry” of psychology at Case Western the pain to motivate the person to (Glasser, 1985, p. 243). Reserve University, Cleveland, change? Ohio and is a licensed clinical JCO: Sure. Let’s stop for lunch. psychologist who provides WG: “That’s a good question” Maybe we can talk again next outpatient psychotherapy through (Glasser, 2000a, p. 175). “Therapy week? a local charity clinic. Dr. Overholser is not primarily directed toward conducts research on depression making him happy” (Glasser, 1973, WG: “I’m sure we can” (Glasser in and suicide risk through a local p. 579). “Our job is not to lessen Chance & Bibens, 1990, p. 2). “I VA Medical Centre and the County the pain of irresponsible actions but think we’ve had a real good get- Medical Examiner’s Office.

REFERENCES

Berges, A. (1976). About Reality Therapy. In explanation of the steps of reality therapy. York: Harper Collins. A. Bassin, T. Bratter, & R. Rachin (Eds), The In Glasser, N. (Ed), What are you doing?: How Glasser, W. (2003). Warning: Psychiatry can Reality Therapy reader: A survey of the work people are helped through Reality Therapy (pp. be hazardous to your mental health. New York: of William Glasser, M.D. (pp. 6-13). New York: 48-60). New York: Harper & Row. Harper & Collins. Harper & Row. Glasser, W. (1985). Discipline has never been Glasser, W. (2004). A new vision for Brandt, R. (1988). On students’ needs and the problem and isn’t the problem now. Theory counseling. Family Journal, 12 (4), 339-341. team learning: A conversation with William into Practice, 24 (4), 241-246. Glasser. Educational Leadership, 45 (6), 38- Glasser, W. (2013). Take charge of your life. Glasser, W. (1993a). Quality, trust, and 45. Bloomington, IN: iUniverse. redefining education. Educational Forum, 57 Chance, E., & Bibens, R. (1990). Developing (1), 37-40. Glasser, W. (2016). Thoughtful answers to quality middle schools - An interview with Dr. timeless questions: Decades of wisdom in Glasser, W. (1993b). Staying together: The William Glasser. Middle School Journal, 21 letters. Los Angeles: William Glasser Inc. control theory guide to a lasting marriage. (4), 1-4. New York: Harper Collins. Glasser, W., & Glasser, C. (2007). Eight Glasser, W. (1960). Mental health or mental lessons for a happier marriage. New York: Glasser, W. (1996a). Then and now: The illness? Psychiatry for practical action. New Harper. theory of choice. Learning, 25 (3), 20-22. York: Harper & Row. Glasser, W., Haight, M., & Shaughnessy, M. Glasser, W. (1996b). A reality therapist’s Glasser, W. (1965). Reality Therapy: A new (2003). An interview with William Glasser. perspective on Ruth. In G. Corey (Ed.) Case approach to psychiatry. New York: Harper & North American Journal of Psychology, 5 (3), approach to counseling and psychotherapy (4th Row. 407-416. ed, pp. 172-178). Pacific Grove, CA: Brooks Glasser, W. (1973). Reality Therapy. In R. Cole. Glasser, W., & Zunin, L. (1979). Reality Jurjevich (Ed) Direct psychotherapy (pp. 562- Therapy. In R. Corsini (Ed). Current Glasser, W. (1997a). A new look at school 610). Coral Gables; University of Miami Press. Psychotherapies, 2nd edition (pp. 302-339). failure and school success. Phi Delta Kappan, Itasca, IL: Peacock Publishers. Glasser, W. (1975). The identity society 78 (8), 596-606. (revised). New York: Harper & Row. Gough, P. B. (1987). The key to improving Glasser, W. (1997b). ‘Choice theory’ and schools: An interview with William Glasser. Phi Glasser, W. (1976a). Positive Addiction. New student success. Education Digest, 63 (3), Delta Kappan, 68 (9), 656-662. York: Harper & Row. 16-21. Nelson, T. (2002). An interview with William Glasser, W. (1976b). Notes on Reality Therapy. Glasser, W. (1998). Choice Theory: A new Glasser, M.D., Teacher Education Quarterly, 29 In A. Bassin, T. Bratter, & R. Rachin (Eds), The psychology of personal freedom. New York: (3), 93-98. Reality Therapy reader: A survey of the work of Harper Collins. William Glasser, M.D. (pp. 92-109). New York: Onedera, J., & Greenwalt, B. (2007). Choice Glasser, W. (2000a). Reality Therapy in Action. Harper & Row. Theory: An interview with Dr. William Glasser. New York: Harper Collins. The Family Journal, 15 (1), 79-86. Glasser, W. (1976c). How to face failure and Glasser, W. (2000b). School violence from the find success. In A. Bassin, T. Bratter, & R. Robey, P., & Wubbolding, R. (2002). An perspective of William Glasser. Professional Rachin (Eds), The Reality Therapy reader: A interview with William Glasser and Carleen School Counseling, 4 (2), 77-80. survey of the work of William Glasser, M.D. (pp. Glasser. In R. Robey, R. Wubbolding, & J. 68-71). New York: Harper & Row. Glasser, W. (2002). Unhappy teenagers: A way Carlson (Eds) Contemporary Issues in Couples for parents and teachers to reach them. New Counseling (pp. 21-30). New York: Routledge. Glasser, W. (1980). Reality therapy: An

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