Vol. 602 Thursday, No. 3 12 May 2005

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Thursday, 12 May 2005.

Suspension of Member……………………………… 618 Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 619 Order of Business ……………………………… 620 Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions: Motion ………………… 628 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: Second Stage (resumed) …………………………… 628 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 679 Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) ………… 679 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 692 Ceisteanna — Questions Minister for Transport Priority Questions …………………………… 692 Other Questions …………………………… 705 Business of Da´il……………………………… 721 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 721 Adjournment Debate Rail Network ……………………………… 722 Racist Attacks ……………………………… 724 Prison Service ……………………………… 728 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 733 617 618

DA´ IL E´ IREANN Suspension of Member. An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the ———— Order of Business I must deal with a postponed division relating to the suspension of a Member. De´ardaoin, 12 Bealtaine 2005. Yesterday, on the question, “That Deputy O´ Thursday, 12 May 2005. Caola´in be suspended from the service of the Da´il”, a division was claimed and, in accordance ———— with Standing Order 61, that division must take Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar place now. 10.30 a.m.

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Paidir. Prayer. Question put.

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The Da´il divided: Ta´, 50; Nı´l, 48.

Ta´

Haughey, Sea´n. Ahern, Dermot. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Ahern, Noel. Jacob, Joe. Andrews, Barry. Kelleher, Billy. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kirk, Seamus. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Callanan, Joe. Lenihan, Conor. Callely, Ivor. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Moloney, John. Cregan, John. Moynihan, Michael. Cullen, Martin. Mulcahy, Michael. Curran, John. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Davern, Noel. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Dempsey, Noel. O’Dea, Willie. Dempsey, Tony. O’Donnell, Liz. Dennehy, John. O’Malley, Fiona. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Tim. Ellis, John. Power, Peter. Fahey, Frank. Power, Sea´n. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Roche, Dick. Fleming, Sea´n. Sexton, Mae. Grealish, Noel. Walsh, Joe. Hanafin, Mary. Wilkinson, Ollie. Harney, Mary. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Kenny, Enda. Bruton, Richard. Lynch, Kathleen. Burton, Joan. McGinley, Dinny. Connaughton, Paul. McGrath, Finian. Connolly, Paudge. McGrath, Paul. Costello, Joe. McHugh, Paddy. Cowley, Jerry. McManus, Liz. Crawford, Seymour. Mitchell, Olivia. Crowe, Sea´n. Morgan, Arthur. Deenihan, Jimmy. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Durkan, Bernard J. Murphy, Catherine. Enright, Olwyn. Neville, Dan. Ferris, Martin. Noonan, Michael. Gilmore, Eamon. O´ Caola´in, Caoimhghı´n. Gogarty, Paul. ´ Gormley, John. O Snodaigh, Aengus. Harkin, Marian. O’Shea, Brian. Healy, Seamus. O’Sullivan, Jan. Hogan, Phil. Quinn, Ruairi. Howlin, Brendan. Rabbitte, Pat. Kehoe, Paul. Ring, Michael. 619 Order of 12 May 2005. Business 620

Nı´l—continued

Ryan, Eamon. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Ryan, Sea´n. Stagg, Emmet. Sargent, Trevor. Stanton, David. Sherlock, Joe. Upton, Mary.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies O´ Snodaigh and Kehoe.

Question declared carried. infrastructure and can benefit from the western rail corridor from the start. Deputy O´ Caola´in withdrew from the Chamber. Mr. Gormley: I seek the adjournment of the Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under Da´il under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter Standing Order 31. of national importance, namely, the series of attacks on Jewish property in the Portobello area An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the where racist graffiti consisting of swastikas and Order of Business, I propose to deal with a SS signs were sprayed on Jewish landmarks, the number of notices under Standing Order 31. I will fact that this was the third such attack in recent call the Deputies in the order in which they sub- months and the need for the Minister for Justice, mitted their notices to my office. Equality and Law Reform to ensure that the per- petrators are brought to justice immediately. Mr. Connolly: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the of national importance, namely, in view of the matters raised, I do not consider them to be in spiralling suicide rates, the urgent necessity for order under Standing Order 31. every person employed in the health service to be provided with a suicide information pack and appropriate specialist prevention training in the Order of Business. recognition of the signs and symptoms related to The Ta´naiste: It is proposed to take No. 12a, suicide and that these training and information motion regarding ministerial rota for parliamen- packs be extended to all teachers, Garda and tary questions; No 19, Electoral (Amendment) community group leaders and organisations. Bill 2005 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 20, Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill 2004 Mr. Gogarty: I seek the adjournment of the — Second Stage (resumed) and No. 21, Land Bill Da´il under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed). It is of national importance, namely, the need for the proposed that, notwithstanding anything in Government to devise an emergency transport Standing Orders, that No. 12a shall be decided plan for the Clondalkin, Lucan and Palmerstown without debate. areas in the wake of the go ahead being granted for the M50 widening scheme, including measures An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to to tackle gridlock through traffic management put to the House, the motion regarding the minis- measures, the speeding up of the works on the terial rota for parliamentary questions. Is that Dublin-Cork rail line and Heuston intercon- agreed? Agreed. nector, early investment in electrification and investment in more buses and work towards an integrated cross-Liffey rail link and a Luas link. Mr. Kenny: Does the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children expect the Cabinet to deal Mr. Healy: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il with the issue of the terminal at Dublin Airport under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of next week? I note the comments made by the national importance, namely, the need to chairman of the Competition Authority, Mr. John immediately roll out the BreastCheck programme Fingleton, that Government intervention is the to all areas of the country, including the south greatest barrier to competition. east and south Tipperary in view of the 1,700 cases of women diagnosed with breast cancer An Ceann Comhairle: Does Deputy Kenny each year and the approximate 640 women who have a question that is appropriate to the Order die each year from breast cancer and to allow the of Business? Ta´naiste and Minister for Health to make a state- ment on the matter. Mr. Kenny: Yes. Mr. Fingleton argued that the State should stop preventing people from Dr. Cowley: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il entering markets. Does the Government intend under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of to change the Competition Authority to deal with national importance, namely, the need for the that restriction upon competition entering the Government to front load the funding of the market? With regard to the e-mail regarding the western rail corridor to ensure that Mayo is not former Minister of Health and Children, Deputy deprived any longer of this essential railroad Mı´cheal Martin—— 621 Order of 12 May 2005. Business 622

An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on edly in the past, if Deputy Rabbitte wishes to the Order of Business. change the Standing Orders, he should set about doing so and the Chair will be happy to Mr. Kenny: The question arises on the Order implement the new Standing Orders. Standing of Business. Does the Government intend to Order 26 covers the Order of Business and the amend the Public Service Management Act, 1997 Chair cannot allow one Deputy to go outside that in view of the fact that the Minister accepts no and insist that other Deputies obey it. responsibility for the debacle foisted upon the Irish people? Mr. Rabbitte: Since 1919, it has been possible to ask a question as the leader of a party on the An Ceann Comhairle: The House cannot dis- Order of Business. cuss the possible content of legislation. An Ceann Comhairle: The Standing Orders Mr. Kenny: The Minister does not accept any have been implemented by my predecessors since responsibility despite the fact that it is contained the foundation of the State. In recent years, in the Public Service Management Act. I consider Leaders’ Questions were established to facilitate myself very lucky that he did not have to cast his what Deputy Rabbitte wishes to do now. We will vote this morning and vote against his colleague, not have this argument every morning of the Deputy O´ Caola´in. week.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has ruled on Mr. Rabbitte: A senior civil servant at assistant the matter. principal level——

The Ta´naiste: The Government has no plans to An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has ruled that amend the Public Service Management Act. Our Deputy Rabbitte is out of order. I call on Deputy competition law has been greatly enhanced in Rabbitte to resume his seat. recent years but must be kept under constant review. I hope the Government will be in a posi- Mr. Rabbitte: It is impossible to carry out our tion shortly to make a decision regarding the ter- business in this House. minal at Dublin Airport. An Ceann Comhairle: It is not advisable to get Mr. Rabbitte: Can the Ta´naiste give the House into a confrontation with the Chair this morning. an approximate figure for the anticipated payout The Chair will be obliged to take the necessary under the redress scheme for long-stay charges? action if Deputy Rabbitte persists. Approximately how much will be paid out this year? What investigation is going on inside the The Ta´naiste: With regard to the cost, it Department of Health and Children following the depends on the level of take-up, particularly by discovery that the critical file from the Attorney estates but the lower figure that has been esti- General was being squatted on by the previous mated by the Department is \845 million. A fig- Minister? ure of approximately \1.2 billion or \1.3 billion has been estimated by the Health Service Execu- An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Rabbitte’s ques- tive. It is in that ballpark, which is why I have tion does not arise on the Order of Business. used a figure of approximately \1 billion which is There is no provision for Leaders’ Questions on somewhere between the two. I do not think the Thursday mornings. legislation will be passed until the autumn so I think the bulk of it will be paid next year. Mr. Rabbitte: The entire controversy pivots around the missing file from the Attorney Mr. Rabbitte: Is there any investigation going General. on?

An Ceann Comhairle: That may well be the The Ta´naiste: There has been a major reorgan- case but the question does not arise on the Order isation of the Department. It has a new Secretary of Business. Deputy Rabbitte must find another General. Considerable effort was spent trying to way of raising the issue. locate that famous file from the Attorney Gen- eral but it has yet to be found. I do not have it in Mr. Rabbitte: We now find that the previous my possession. Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mı´cheal Martin, squatted on this file. I am seek- ing to ask the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health Mr. Sargent: Promised legislation will be pub- and Children—— lished in due course, after which the Government is expected to take action on the An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a situa- 11 o’clock terms of that legislation. Is there any tion every morning whereby leaders of parties point in anticipating the outcome of have an opportunity to submit a leader’s ques- the decision concerning the Prisons Bill 2005, tion. The Chair is here to implement the Standing which accounts for the closure of Mountjoy Orders and as the Chair has pointed out repeat- Prison, considering that \30 million has already 623 Order of 12 May 2005. Business 624

[Mr. Sargent.] The Ta´naiste: We need at least 50 to 60 psy- been spent on a site by the Government pending chiatrists to participate but do not yet have any- the legislation? where near that many. Work is ongoing to achieve this target over the next few weeks. An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on this matter. Mr. J. Breen: I have heard nothing from the Ta´naiste regarding her commitment to the House Mr. Sargent: Is there any point in that legis- in October 2004 to investigate my brush with the lation being treated seriously given that the MRSA superbug. Her Department has all my Government has acted as if it is already an Act? records from the hospital in question.

An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Ta´naiste to An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should sub- answer. mit a question to the Ta´naiste.

The Ta´naiste: The Prisons Bill 2005 is ordered Mr. J. Breen: The Ta´naiste wants to answer. for Second Stage. If the State did not need to get involved in public tendering, perhaps the Govern- The Ta´naiste: Well, we—— ment could make private land deals and get land An Ceann Comhairle: The Ta´naiste can answer as cheaply as everyone else. We must go to the during her questions time. market and advertise, which happened in this case. Ms Burton: In light of the Ta´naiste’s——

Mr. Sargent: This was not normal. Mr. J. Breen: I nearly lost my life because of the MRSA superbug. When will the issue be The Ta´naiste: It was normal. addressed?

Mr. Bruton: On Deputy Kenny’s point, the An Ceann Comhairle: I appreciate the Government has promised competition in bus Deputy’s seriousness but there are other ways of services. Senator Mary O’Rourke, when she was raising it in the House. If the Deputy wishes to Minister, was to have produced legislation in submit it on the Adjournment, it can be raised in 2001. that way.

Mr. Crawford: The Senator is in competition. Mr. Naughten: If one cannot make the Deputy join one, kill him off. Mr. Bruton: She is in hot competition. This legislation is now listed as No. 79 on the prog- Ms Burton: I hope the Ta´naiste will persuade ramme with the statement that its date of publi- doctors to wash their hands regularly, as this is cation is not possible to indicate at this stage. where most of the illness is coming from. What has happened to the Government’s views? I know the Senator had strong support for com- An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- petition but it appears to have left the agenda. tion appropriate to the Order of Business? In a recent court case, \2.2 million was awarded to an individual who was wrongly (Interruptions). detained in a mental health institution. When will the tribunals that were promised by legislation be An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Burton to established to deal with cases wherein people feel continue without interruption. they have been wrongly treated in mental health Ms Burton: In light of the Ta´naiste’s commit- institutions? They are sorely overdue. ment to public service reform, will there be further reform legislation given the disclosure of The Ta´naiste: The Minister for Transport, facts concerning a file being sent to a Minister’s Deputy Cullen, informs me the Bill will be intro- office and no trace of it existing? duced later this year. I share the Deputy’s view about the mental An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a health tribunals. They have not been established debate on the matter. because the consultants have not been prepared to participate. When we have a sufficient number Ms Burton: It will cost taxpayers \1 billion. As of psychiatrists willing to participate on the this is a key issue of public service reform, surely panels, the work will begin immediately concern- the Ta´naiste has something to say. ing the 600 people who were involuntarily detained. The Minister of State, Deputy Tim The Ta´naiste: We do not require legislation to O’Malley, is working to try to make this a reality. ensure files go from A to B.

Mr. Bruton: Can the Ta´naiste give the House Ms Burton: I presume an inquiry will take a timeframe? place. 625 Order of 12 May 2005. Business 626

Mr. Gormley: We have heard much recently An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- about the problem of alcohol in accident and tion on legislation? emergency units. Why has the Government not implemented the recommendations of the task Mr. Healy: With respect, I have raised this force on alcohol abuse? When can we expect to issue under Standing Order 31, on the Adjourn- see the Bill on the control of advertising, sponsor- ment, through parliamentary questions—— ship and marketing of alcohol products? An Ceann Comhairle: The matter does not The Ta´naiste: The Bill is being worked on by arise on the Order of Business. Minister of State, Deputy Sea´n Power, and will be introduced later this year. Mr. Healy: I asked the Ta´naiste to make amends—— Mr. S. Ryan: Is legislation promised in the con- text of the role of the Irish Financial Services An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is being dis- Regulatory Authority in credit unions? If so, at orderly and should resume his seat. what stage of development is it? Mr. Healy: ——but she has refused to do any The Ta´naiste: As far as I remember, the credit of the work involved. When will she answer my unions are under the ambit of IFSRA but no question? The Ta´naiste is reneging on this issue legislation has been promised. as she has on others.

Mr. S. Ryan: I was under the impression there An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy does not was. resume his seat we will move on to the next business. Mr. Durkan: Will the Government introduce legislation to encourage the Minister for Mr. Gilmore: Which of the two Bills, the stra- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, tegic national infrastructure Bill and the national Deputy Noel Dempsey, to address the House an roads infrastructure Bill, will deal with the plan- odd time so Members can ask him questions ning of motorways? about promised legislation? The Ta´naiste: I imagine the roads legislation An Ceann Comhairle: Does the Deputy have a will deal with roads and the strategic infrastruc- particular Bill in mind? ture Bill, which will be going before the Cabinet shortly, will deal with other matters. Mr. Durkan: Legislation has been promised for 2006 in the case of Bord Ga´is and in the urgent Mr. Naughten: I have received representations area of broadcasting. These Bills have been from a woman who has a bill of \5,000 for 12 days shelved until after the next general election. in an acute psychiatric unit even though she has Would it be possible to encourage the Minister to a medical card due to expire in 2015. make a special guest appearance during Order of Business some morning and tell us what he is An Ceann Comhairle: Does the Deputy have a going to do? question appropriate to the Order of Business?

The Ta´naiste: The Minister was here and is Mr. Naughten: Yes. She was billed because she here most of the time. The heads of the Bord went to her local acute service, which is outside Ga´is Bill are expected later this year. her old catchment area.

Mr. Durkan: The Minister is like the invisible An Ceann Comhairle: We are moving on to man. No. 12a, motion re ministerial rota for parliamen- tary questions to be taken without debate. Mr. Healy: In 1996 the Department of Health approved a High Court agreement for the pro- Mr. Naughten: In light of this, when will sec- vision of general hospital services in south ondary legislation in connection with the Health Tipperary. When will the Ta´naiste implement Act 2004 be introduced? Are there plans to bring this agreement? forward specific proposals under section 73, which give additional function and powers to the An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is out of Health Service Executive? order. The Ta´naiste: I will be signing a number of Mr. Healy: I am not out of order. regulations over the next week in connection with the 2004 Act. I am not familiar with the issue An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair has ruled on Deputy Naughten has raised but will check it. the matter. Mr. Quinn: I have raised the matter of building Mr. Stagg: The Chair is out of order. controls legislation on the Order of Business 627 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 628

[Mr. Quinn.] The Ta´naiste: There is a difficulty in signing repeatedly. The House was told the Bill will be them at present in that if we had signed them in published later this year. Does the Ta´naiste know their original draft form, we would have imposed whether the heads of the Bill have been fully a charge on people who, traditionally, did not pay drafted, whether a parliamentary draftsman was a charge. I am referring to the mental health involved and whether it would be possible to pub- psychiatric area. I propose next week to sign lish the heads at this stage? Serious issues of con- regulations covering the elderly and to deal with sumer protection and other matters exist. the mental health psychiatric aspects in sub- sequent regulations which will possibly take a The Ta´naiste: The heads of the Bill were further number of weeks. I obviously do not want cleared by the Government and I will discuss the to impose a new charge on people who, tradition- matter of issuing the heads with the Minister for ally have not paid a charge. I have asked the the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Department to expedite the preparation of the ment, Deputy Roche. regulations covering the care of the elderly because we are losing approximately \12 million Ms Shortall: What has happened to the Rail- a month. way Safety Bill 2001? Over two years have passed since it left Committee Stage. No framework Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions: exists to deal with a serious rail accident. Motion. The Ta´naiste: The Minister for Transport Minister of State at the Department of the informs me that the order for Report Stage and Taoiseach (Mr. Kitt): I move: major amendments are being drafted. That, notwithstanding anything in the Resol- ution of the Da´il of 6th June, 2002, setting out Ms Shortall: That has been the case for quite a the rota in which Questions to members of the time. What is causing the delay? Government are to be asked, Questions for oral answer, following those next set down to The Ta´naiste: I have no idea but it is a signifi- the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, shall cant administrative task for the Department. be set down to Ministers in the following tem- porary sequence: Mr. Cullen: We have agreed to take it as legislation. Minister for Agriculture and Food Minister for Defence Ms Shortall: We have not heard about it on this Minister for Enterprise, Trade and side of the House. Employment Dr. Cowley: I asked the Taoiseach about alter- where upon the sequence established by Resol- native practitioners and he told me about the ution of 6th June, 2002, shall continue with Medical Practitioners (Amendment) Bill. Questions to the Minister for Finance. However, I have received replies to several parliamentary questions stating that it will cover Question put and agreed to. mainstream practitioners and I note the Ta´naiste has no plan to deal with alternative practitioners. Having got those replies yesterday, I am still con- Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: Second Stage fused. Will the Medical Practitioners (Resumed). (Amendment) Bill cover alternative prac- titioners? I fear it will not from the details I Question again proposed: “That the Bill be received. now read a Second Time”. Mr. Haughey: We have devoted a great deal of An Ceann Comhairle: It is not appropriate to time to Second Stage which shows that politicians discuss what might be included in a Bill. I suggest love to talk about the mechanics of politics. It is the Deputy submits a question to the Ta´naiste on right that we should discuss the make-up of our the matter. constituencies but I hope we do not neglect the other more important issues of the day in this The Ta´naiste: I gave Deputy Cowley the House. answer to that question yesterday. The answer is This Bill is of great interest to me in two no, of course it will not. respects, in my role as a Deputy representing Dublin North-Central and also a chairman of the Dr. Cowley: It will not deal with alternative Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment practitioners. When will that issue be dealt with? and Local Government. My constituency is set to lose a seat if this Bill is passed as it stands. Mr. Rabbitte: When will the Ta´naiste sign the Although I deeply regret the fact that the people regulations in respect of the nursing home of Dublin North-Central will be forced to relin- charges issue? quish a public representative as the number of 629 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 630 seats in the constituency is reduced from four to misconduct and one which, thankfully, has never three, I am happy in the knowledge that this will been associated with this State. happen as the result of clear, methodical and Dublin North-Central has been a four seat con- pragmatic analysis. stituency since 1980. Much has changed in the Dublin North-Central has a long history of past 25 years and notably it is one of only three boundary changes and adjustments in the number constituencies in the country to have lost popu- of its seats. Since it was established in 1947, lation since the 1996 census. I welcome the com- Dublin North-Central has lost or gained a seat mission’s recommendation to alter the bound- three times, switching from three to four seats at aries of the constituency accordingly. each revision. My constituents have accepted It is interesting to study what is happening in these alternations given that they were fair and Dublin North-Cental. Many Members present justified. I know they will agree to the amend- would be surprised to learn that the population ments currently proposed. The changes which are of a Dublin constituency quite close to the River to be enacted stem from the advice given by an Liffey is declining. Many elderly people live in impartial panel and are necessary, in particular, many estates in the constituency. Young people because of the nature of our democracy. from the area who leave the family home, get This Bill has been attacked by Members of the married and set up house are moving to the sub- House as being “flawed and undemocratic”. I urbs of Dublin North, County Meath and so on. refer to comments made by Deputy Finian It is a pattern with which we are familiar. It allows McGrath when speaking on Second Stage in the us to examine further the population changes and House on 27 April 2005. The Deputy also said to plan accordingly. We are all familiar with the the Bill shows a “lack of respect for citizens”. I problem of suburban sprawl. Those who can- argue that the case is precisely the opposite. The vassed in the Meath by-election in particular had method of election here, of which all Members this message clearly brought home to them. We present are well aware, is proportional represen- must examine how we can attract population tation. This means that any election result is back into the centre city areas and into the inner city suburbs. A policy of high density develop- directly related to the size of the population. ment is being facilitated which I welcome in some Therefore, to keep the system as democratic as respects. Nevertheless, we must be careful in our possible, the Government must take responsive planning that we do not destroy the traditional action, having regard to population changes. neighbourhood communities which have charac- The Electoral Commission stated its intention terised Dublin North-Central and neighbouring to give particular attention to those constituenc- constituencies over the years. That is a digression ies “with variances exceeding 5% from national from the subject of the Bill, but there are major average representation”. As it stands, the per- planning issues arising from the population centage variance from the national average rep- changes currently taking place. resentation in Dublin North-Central is minus Prior to the establishment of the current system 11.89%. This Bill will address this huge disparity of revising constituencies through the advice of by bringing it to within 4% and will also allow an independent commission, alteration was at the bordering constituencies to be brought further discretion of a Minister. We are all aware of the into line with the national average such that problems that this method brought in its train. Dublin North-Central, Dublin North-East and One Minister had the dishonour of being added Dublin North-West — I note the presence of one to the political lexicon as a result of his attempts of the Deputies respecting the later constituency, to gerrymander constituencies in what he the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern — will believed to be in favour of his Government. His be well within 1% of the average. attempts failed spectacularly, hence the term The knock-on effect of this is that other parts “Tullymander”. But at least some good came of of the country will also benefit from revision and his actions when an independent commission was the net result with be a more balanced democ- established to address constituency change. racy. We cannot ignore the importance of this. It The point I am making is that while the system is imperative that we have a fluid political system then in place was quite obviously open to charges that is open to such change which is now being of malpractice, such charges applied to the system facilitated by the Department of the Envir- we have today serve only to scar the reputation onment, Heritage and Local Government in this of this House in the eyes of the citizens of this Bill. If we did not allow for such change, and wel- country and the international community. This is come it, then the system would become static and a needless and disruptive practice, and any argu- we would be justified in labelling it undemocratic ment put forward in this debate that is built on for it would not successfully reflect the wishes of the principle that this legislation is undemocratic the population as intended. To ignore population is inherently weak. To accuse an independent change is to pave the way forward for an commission of conspiring to gerrymander is unbalanced degree of influence on the part of the undermining and bruising to our democracy. A electors and, at the extreme end of the scale, the Bill of this type will inevitably come under attack development of something like the infamous from elements in the Opposition benches. Their “rotten borough”, a term loaded with notions of arguments are rarely new and are never founded 631 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 632

[Mr. Haughey.] constituencies are the norm, with six and seven on an objective and pragmatic analysis of the members elected in most areas. During the recent issues. election in Northern Ireland we witnessed, on the The Irish Times recently published an article one hand, six and seven seat constituencies and, on this legislation entitled “New electoral bound- on the other, the one man one vote system, which aries will make or break some careers”. I suspect lead to tactical voting. This does not allow people this encapsulates the fears of some of those to vote for the individuals they want. Pro- Deputies who attacked this legislation as being portional representation is the purest form of rep- driven by so-called anti-democratic values. If they resentation in that it ensures that Deputies are were genuinely concerned for the well-being of elected more or less in proportion to the number our electoral system, they would not be reduced of votes cast for each party grouping. to such unhelpful and unwarranted attacks. We The first Da´il adopted a system of multi- have an electoral system in place in this country member constituencies, returning as many as which is the envy of less fortunate countries eight and nine Deputies, and it ensured that the across the globe. It must be treated with respect widest cross section of interests were represented and managed carefully so that it retains its stat- in Da´il E´ ireann. The original intentions of the ure. This Bill ensures that it does and I commend nation-builders in the 1920s was not to design a it to the House. system that would be applied to a vast majority I would like to make a final point. In 2007, all of three-seat constituencies. The independent going well, my family will have given 50 years of electoral commission’s hands were tied by the public service to the people of Dublin North-Cen- Government’s stipulation that constituencies tral. The reduction of seats in this constituency were to be confined to three, four and five-seat from four to three will make it very competitive constituencies. It could not have decided to for all candidates contesting the next general return to six-seat constituencies. The electoral election. The electorate will decide who will be commission also has in its terms of reference the returned to Leinster House. I hope the people of stipulation that there should be an average rep- Dublin North-Central will re-elect me as one of resentation of one Deputy per 22,598 people. their three Deputies to allow me to continue to This is subject to a 5% deviation either way and represent them effectively to the best of my that county boundaries would be adhered to as ability for the duration of the 30th Da´il. far as possible. County loyalty is still very strong throughout Mr. Connolly: I welcome the opportunity to the country. The electoral commission members speak on the Bill, which will form the basis for followed the county boundary stipulation as far as the conduct of the upcoming general election, possible in the past. Unfortunately, the tendency which may occur in one or two years. towards a proliferation of three-seat constituenc- The Bill proposes a total of 43 constituencies, ies leads to a gross distortion of PR, since a dis- one more than the previous constituency revision, proportionate number of Deputies, two out of but without any increase in the number of three, is frequently returned as against the votes Deputies to be elected to the Da´il, which remains cast. The effect of such a multiplicity of three- at 166. Given that the population has increased seat constituencies is to minimise the number of by approximately 25% in the past 15 years, it minority Deputies elected. A truer reflection of might be an appropriate time to consider increas- voters’ preferences would emerge from a general ing the number of Deputies to 168. Some people election if there were 20 five-seat, 12 four-seat may feel there are too many of us, but that is life. and six three-seat constituencies. The Bill provides for a total of 12 five-seat con- The original purpose of the PR system was to stituencies, 13 four-seat constituencies and 18 return a correct proportion of Deputies from the three-seat constituencies. As Deputy Haughey various parties as close as possible to the pro- said, it is a new feature that we are beginning to portions of the votes cast for the various party increase the number of three-seat constituencies. groups. It has been said that PR makes every vote Nevertheless, even though the overall number of count and produces results that are proportionate Da´il Deputies will remain the same, the Bill will to what the voters desire. Experience has shown have the effect of changing considerably the pol- that proportional representation has produced itical landscape. It allows for a more sweeping successful governments less ignorant to citizens’ revision of constituency boundaries than many needs. Accordingly, citizens become less apa- previous revisions. It changes 23 constituencies, thetic and more content with the way the system leaving 15 unchanged, creates five new constitu- works. It has proved itself to be the most depend- encies and replaces four existing ones. able method of electing Deputies to Da´il E´ ireann, Electoral systems are a significant part of the even though its effectiveness has been steadily web of legal and civil institutions that societies eroded down the years by the reduction of con- construct to govern themselves. In the early years stituency representation. Even though the 23 of the State, multi-member constituencies were female Members of the House is a long way short not uncommon, with as many as six and seven of what it should be, PR encourages women to members from each constituency. For the have a greater representation in our Parliament Northern Ireland Assembly elections, multi-seat compared with the British system. 633 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 634

The skewed results that emanate from a pre- In the United Kingdom’s first-past-the-post ponderance of three-seat constituencies depart system, minority groups are either left out or radically from the spirit and purpose of PR. They under-represented and the overall results merely provide results that are frequently at variance provide an illusion of political consensus. The with the voters’ intentions. How can 66% of the first-past-the-post system produces serious distor- seats in an area that are won with 47% of votes tions that are remedied by a PR system. In the cast be construed as representing the democratic United Kingdom, for example, the former Liberal will of the people of the area? The number of Party, now the Liberal Democrats, frequently three-seat constituencies continues to grow, dim- polled over 30% of the votes cast in the country, inishing the proportional nature of the electoral yet returned with a paltry 11 or 12 seats out of system and getting as close as possible to the 630. effect of a system of single member con- The claim that winner-takes-all elections are stituencies. inherently more capable of bridging political div- The proportional nature of the system has been ides does not bear up under scrutiny. Such is the largely diluted by the proposal to split County main fallacy of the single-member constituency, Leitrim down the middle. Leitrim is being divided be it in the British first-past-the-post system or between counties Sligo and Roscommon to form our by-election system, in which just one person two new constituencies of Sligo-North Leitrim is elected by the single transferable vote. and Roscommon-South Leitrim. It is quite con- The single-member constituency would put ceivable that we could get back to the situation independent or minority candidates at an that prevailed in the 1970s when Leitrim was extreme disadvantage in the face of the massive similarly divided between Roscommon and Sligo. machines of major parties. I have no doubt that I listened to Deputy Ellis who was very eloquent many in this House would like to see this happen. in dealing with this matter. I would not be sur- I listened to one gentleman from Mayo yesterday prised if he is re-elected in his constituency. He who would be absolutely delighted if there were a spoke very well and made a very strong case. At way of getting rid of Independents. Independents the time there was not a single Deputy from have a place in this Da´il. We are well established County Leitrim elected in either constituency and here and raise relevant issues, to the extent that the people of the county were effectively disen- major political parties sometimes adopt those franchised for several years until the county was issues as their own a week later. Independent reunited in the constituency of Sligo-Leitrim. voices are being heard and make an impression Shifts in population require that constituency in the Da´il. The establishment of single-member boundaries be redrawn from time to time to constituencies would have the effect of minimis- reflect the population shifts reported in the cen- ing the number of Deputies from smaller parties sus. According to the recent census in 2002, or Independents in the House. Ireland has a population of just over 3.9 million. One of the most common criticisms of the PR It also reported dramatic differences in the rate system concerns its instability. The repeated col- of population growth in different areas of the lapse of the rather shaky coalitions in Israel and country. We all know there is a leaning towards Italy creates policy uncertainty and doubts about the east coast and that the population is not their governments’ long-term viability. The prin- increasing to the same extent in rural areas. This cipal problem with PR is that it tends to entrench is because of the failure of our decentralisation in power the leadership of the major parties. For programme. If we are to increase the population most of the half century after the Second World in certain areas, we should reconsider decentralis- War, no matter how the Italian voters twisted or ation, promote industry and create jobs in rural turned, they found themselves ruled by a govern- areas. ment dominated by Christian Democrats and the The manipulation of constituency boundaries Socialist Party. Governments fell routinely but in the past used to be known as gerrymandering. the same cast of candidates continued to shuffle There are several notorious examples of efforts Cabinet chairs and to ramble on as before. The to secure party advantage in the House practised end came with the emergence of a regionally by different Governments. Gerrymandering was dominant business-friendly party that ran on an the political weapon of choice. Its main purposes anti-corruption campaign. However, PR made it were to protect the seats of incumbent Deputies harder rather than easier to turf out the broadly and to allow the dominant party to win more unwanted governing parties. seats than it deserved. There were opportunities Another drawback of the PR system is the for Governments to gain a few extra seats for quality of policy choices made by cohabiting gov- themselves. erning parties. This is a dynamic problem. A jun- The overall number of Deputies has been fixed ior coalition partner that supports the dominant by law at between 164 and 168. I made reference party’s position may find itself readily forgotten to the need to consider increasing this number. and electorally unrewarded. Hence, the current The electoral commission, which adheres strictly policy divergence between the current Govern- to its terms of reference, has been cited as the ment partners over the provision of a second ter- reason we have not had overall majorities for minal at Dublin Airport. In another country, the over 25 years. very suggestion that such a difference could be 635 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 636

[Mr. Connolly.] It is very important to locate one’s office where responsible for the downfall of a government the people are. would be regarded as ludicrous. It is only in recent times that politicians have Our population of 3.9 million is at its highest thought it worth their while to open offices in since the great famine. Consequently, one would local towns. It is a new way and circumstances think an addition to the number of seats in the have changed. In the past, clinics were sporadic Da´il is warranted. However, the electoral com- and constituents did not know exactly when they mission was probably gauging public opinion in would be held. They had to watch the paper like balancing population shifts with the current 166 a hawk to find out. Now they know they can meet Da´il seats. a politician in a given place at a given time. This Many have argued in favour of having fewer is why we are elected. Deputies and various maximum numbers of seats, ranging from 60 to 100, have been advocated. Mr. Durkan: Hear, hear. Some argue that democracy would benefit if fewer Deputies, who would be suitably qualified Mr. Connolly: We are well-paid for it and this and more highly paid, were elected. However, is how it should be. who would determine what is meant by “suitably Consider the issue of people who do not bother qualified”? As the only Independent Deputy for to vote. They have different reasons. Some feel the constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, I do not they are too much above voting to bother sullying subscribe to the idea. themselves with the process. Our public representatives are readily access- ible to their constituents, irrespective of whether Mr. Durkan: They are basking in their own they voted for them. In an effort to bring democ- reflected glory. racy closer to the people, I intend to make myself as available as possible in the Cavan-Monaghan Mr. Connolly: Others feel they are making a constituency. I have taken the initial stepsto stand against the system and getting their own increase the number of locations in which I hold back by not voting. Perhaps the political parties clinics. I am doing so in County Monaghan are guilty to the extent that they do not recruit initially and when this is done I will re-examine new members. Recruitment is almost a forgotten art. I cannot accuse every party of not recruiting my position on holding clinics in County Cavan. new members but many of the major parties ignore the public. If one asks why someone joined Mr. Durkan: A good policy. a party he or she will say it was the only party that invited him or her. When one joins a party Mr. Connolly: I have decided my office in one is indoctrinated, to an extent. That is how the Clones will be open every Tuesday evening from party operates. The member enjoys the tap on the 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. shoulder and the feeling that in the party’s eyes he or she is special. Mr. Durkan: Fair play to the Deputy. Many people have a very low opinion of poli- ticians in general, whether that be right or wrong. Mr. Connolly: People will know I will be avail- There may be many reasons for that. People are able in a particular town at a particular time. My surprised to hear that, like schoolchildren, we get office in Ballybay is open from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. our summer holidays at the beginning of July. on a Tuesday evening. The people of the town The perception is that we are a group of self-serv- know that Paudge Connolly’s clinic is open and ing people. I am not unique in working here for accessible to them at this time. a minimum of 90 hours a week, but that message is not delivered to the people. It would not sell Mr. Durkan: Hear, hear. newspapers. It is easy to criticise the system and we are the butt of that criticism and that will con- Mr. Connolly: I hold a clinic in Castleblayney tinue to be so. every Monday from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. The people If people who do not vote understood what in Castleblayney know they can meet an Indepen- some people have done to win the vote they dent Deputy in their town each Monday night. would appreciate that right. For example, there This is what Members of the Oireachtas are paid was a time when women did not have the right for. I also hold a clinic in Carrickmacross at 4 to vote or to education. In 1913, Emily Wilding p.m. on the first Thursday of every month. Davison threw herself in front of the king’s horse My idea was so good that a major political and died in order to win the vote for women. party decided the very next week to run clinics every first Saturday. Is it a case of great minds or Mr. Durkan: Flora Drummond chained herself fools thinking alike? I was glad I was the first to to the railings of Downing Street in the same have this good idea because otherwise I could cause. have been accused of copying it. Maybe the people will realise I have set this trend. It will Mr. Connolly: In states that did not have the change the face of politics in County Monaghan. franchise people walked for days and queued in 637 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 638 the sun to win votes. A referendum in 1972 election is to ensure people have representation reduced the voting age here from 21 to 18 years. and our system is conducive to achieving that rep- We should consider introducing Sunday voting. resentation. It has proved successful elsewhere so why not Politics is over-analysed and has become a glo- adopt it here? If we persist in holding elections bal phenomenon. Previous speakers have said on a Friday one central electoral station should how difficult it is to attract new people into poli- be designated in each major university city, such tics. In recent years we have seen a decline in as Galway, Cork or Dublin, to facilitate students voter turnout at elections across the spectrum, on the day of the election. When students return whether the election is held on a Thursday or home on a bus or train on a Friday evening they Friday. Holding elections on a Sunday would are not thinking about the election. They may make no difference because people are becoming have family, sporting or social commitments. detached from politics and politicians, which is to They are tired after a hard week’s work and look the detriment of all parties. forward to socialising when they come home at I spoke recently to a group of young people the weekends. and asked their views of politics. They regard No debate on electoral reform would be com- politics as remote from their lives. In 1975 Jack plete without a reference to the electronic voting Lynch, then leader of Fianna Fa´il, set up the first system. The mishandling of its introduction was youth organisation of any political party, O´ gra such that people will shy away from using the Fianna Fa´il. In his opening speech he said system. Equipment worth \50 million is in storage “whether it be to join and support or indeed to and continues to cost us money. We should revisit strongly oppose us, we in Fianna Fa´il exhort each that process. and every young person in this State to become involved in political organisations”. We must Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk): I should dissuade spread this message. All politicians discuss poli- the Deputy from going off on tangents in view of tics with civics, social and political education the fact that his speaking time has expired. classes in second level schools. They probably lay out their stalls there too, as we all must do in Mr. Connolly: It was not a tangent. Electronic advance of an election. The most important job voting is relevant to this Bill, as is the fact that it we can do is to encourage young people to par- costs a large sum of money to store the machines ticipate in the democratic process and to under- week by week. We should reconsider this matter stand that their contribution can influence policy. because electronic voting is the way forward. The Ireland is a rich country whose identity has notion of closing schools—— developed over years of upheaval yet we have a tradition of creativity and culture. To share our Mr. Durkan: Definitely not. Never. opinions on politics or on any subject we must be informed and the great interest in politics through Mr. Connolly: I believe it is. We should exam- the generations is testament to the excellent stan- ine the system to create a paper trail as we dard of education in this country over the past requested initially. century. Consideration of policies and politics tests each of us and broadens our understanding Mr. M. Moynihan: I welcome the opportunity of people’s behaviour, thus making us more to speak on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill. broad-minded and creating a more inclusive and Many constituencies and boundaries have been progressive society. changed which adds to the intrigue and the diffi- To play our part in politics we must understand culties facing political parties and candidates. them. Young people and people generally across This is particularly so in my constituency of Cork the country associate politics, electoral Bills and North West which will be one of the most elections with politicians being elected to the interesting and complex constituencies in the Da´il, the Seanad and various local authorities next election. throughout the country but politics is about life. We have reviewed constituencies since the For the past eight years I have been honoured foundation of the State and will continue to do so. to be a Member of this House representing Cork All the reports of the independent constituency North-West. The more I see of life here the more commission have been accepted. I see that it mirrors life throughout the country. Many people believe proportional represen- One has the same characters in this House that tation and the multi-seat constituency make the one has in any community. They are representa- election too constituency and client-orientated. tive of Irish life and true proportional represen- The other side of that argument is that candidates tation in any parliament should mirror life out- grow close to the needs of people in their con- side it. That is the function of the national stituencies. After a weekend in their constituency parliament. clinics and advice offices they understand the per- If we consider any community, life, events and tinent issues. A single seat constituency might suit the environment will continuously test its beliefs. a sitting Deputy or politician but proportional History teaches us that in striving for an ideal representation is probably the best system for the many obstacles must be overcome. Policy makers general public. The most important aspect of an must find compromise and dialogue must be used 639 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 640

[Mr. M. Moynihan.] ency it has changed with the advent of the Celtic as the ultimate tool in the resolution of difficult- Tiger and with new people moving in. ies. Some people have great enthusiasm and One of the most important things that hap- ambition and great ideas come from this. Though pened in Cork North-West over the past eight they may not want to talk about their opinions, years is the change in the employment rate. Ten many people have an idea of the Ireland in which or 15 years ago young people educated in my con- they want to live. This vision is based primarily stituency had to emigrate to Liverpool, Boston or on people’s lives and has been formulated by New York to find a job. Thankfully that is no families, school, environment and the part they longer the case and the situation is reversed. Non- play in the local community. In politics or per- nationals are coming to the area to find work in sonal life the key to success is to play an this community. Despite the non-nationals com- important role in the development of one’s com- ing in the number of people on the live register munity. This may be in the sporting, musical or is decreasing further. People say that 20 years ago party political domain. Through such involve- if we could see a situation of full employment for ment everyone will develop their interpersonal our people we would never again see a poor day. skills and learn from those around them. However, with full employment we have other Young people bring blind enthusiasm that pressures. often makes the impossible possible. That great One issue that arises in rural constituencies, enthusiasm can rejuvenate an organisation and and particularly my own, is planning permission, reawaken an entire community. Involvement in and planning for young people living there. We any organisation is character-building while com- have provided employment for them and it is placency creates a dormant society, without pro- important for all local and national politicians to gress or hope. Throughout this country we should ensure that policies are implemented so that sell this notion to everyone. I could list the com- young people can build homes in their local com- munity groups in my own constituency that have munities. It is important that some regulations done excellent work on behalf of their com- regarding rural planning are not interpreted in a munity. Consider the people at the forefront of very strict manner. In my parish there were 76 development of the community or organisations. more family homes than there are today. If some- These people are great leaders and we should one built 76 more homes tomorrow dotted encourage people to get involved in their own around the countryside the planning authorities communities and local organisations. Through would almost have a seizure. Now that we have that they take pride in their organisations. secured employment we must allow people to I sometimes become disillusioned when I hear stay in their communities and it is important that that it is a terrible country to live in, or that some we provide planning for them in rural areas. community is a terrible one in which to live. This In the by-elections in Meath and Kildare we kind of statement makes me angry. It is easy to saw the huge suburban growth of Dublin. Over be the hurler on the ditch, taking a swipe at any- the past ten years the population of Dublin has one who is leading in his or her community or doubled. I wonder whether com- organisation. It is easy to say that he or she 12 o’clock munities are being put in place for should do things differently. The most important all the houses that have been built. thing is to get people involved because everyone’s People become attached to their community if ideas are needed. One can take a cynical view of there is a strong sense of community. Tradition- anything and say that nothing can be changed. ally our society has been based on a strong sense Anyone involved in politics can make a change of community to which people have a strong and can state what he or she would like for the attachment. It is important to have a strong sense community. Getting involved in a political party of community, otherwise all we have are hous- leads to friendships being made and being ing estates. broken. A leading politician in this House, who In the west and in much of my constituency had been secretary of the local GAA club at one there are small rural towns and villages that have time said that he had created more enemies as the ability to take extra houses given that the secretary of his GAA club than in 20 years of nucleus of sporting facilities and schools are in national politics. That may be partially true. place. Planners should take those issues into con- My constituency, Cork North-West, is pre- sideration. dominantly rural. In 1997 media commentators A major issue in all constituencies is the pro- said that it was one of the forgotten constituenc- vision of child care facilities. Many of the com- ies. There was never media focus on it. Alas, that munity-funded child care projects had a three- will not happen this time even though we might year staffing grant. However, staff costs have like if it did happen. There will be plenty of escalated and they now have a deficit and will not activity. The constituency stretches from Rockch- be able to continue to operate. I am aware the apel, Milford and Charleville through to Ballin- Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform collig, which will be included in the constituency is reviewing community-based projects. It is as part of this Bill. There is a broad cross-section important that it considers the issue seriously and of people. Major developments have taken place increases its contribution. As the Government over the past eight years. Like any rural constitu- has provided funding to the tune of \1.5 million 641 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 642 for various projects, we must ensure that funding Mr. Durkan: Twenty minutes would not do is provided to ensure staffing for these projects. justice to all one could say on a Bill of this nature I have been chairman of O´ gra Fianna Fa´il for but I will do my best. the past seven years during which time we have had many discussions with young people who Mr. Cassidy: The Deputy’s constituency got an have been turned off politics. When one visits any extra seat. college campus, one has a great recruitment day during freshers’ week. Like all the political par- Mr. Durkan: I intend to refer to that in passing. ties, we move in the machine and try to get as As Scripture says, the Lord giveth and the Lord many as possible signed up to the organisation. taketh away. In this case the constituency bound- During the year, fewer turn up at meetings. ary commission took it away on the first occasion Sometimes people become cynical of politics. At and gave it back on this occasion. times we jump on the bandwagon in a constitu- ency when an announcement is made. We may Mr. Cassidy: The Deputy is a happy man. have criticised the particular project for some time but, when it is announced, we say we played Mr. Durkan: I have seen worse situations. a major part in it. We create some of the reasons people are cynical with politics. Mr. Cassidy: In the words of a good Kildare The decentralisation programme was discussed man, the Deputy is a happy man. on the media this morning. I am pleased that the decision by the Government on decentralisation, Mr. Durkan: On the last occasion the boundary 18 months ago, is progressing well. In the case of commission visited my constituency, it left it in Kanturk, County Cork, a site has been identified. such a way that I had great difficulty in getting We have promoted this issue from day one. elected afterwards. Hopefully, it will not be as dif- Ireland is not a huge sprawling nation with mil- ficult on the next occasion. However, that is what happens with commission boundaries in every lions of acres of land but a small nation in which country. It is part of the democratic system and we can communicate and run our businesses sometimes one falls on the right side of the line effectively whether in Kanturk, Knock or Dublin and sometimes not. Fortunately we have an inde- 4. If units of the apparatus of State are based in pendent commission which I hope will continue small provincial towns, one gets a cross-section of to be independent. I respect its decisions. views rather than the Dublin understanding of However, I was not as welcoming on the previous what is needed. I welcome the Government’s occasion for the simple reason that it had obvious decision to proceed with the decentralisation implications for me. programme and to identify sites in all 53 In general, I welcome the Bill although I have locations. I am pleased it has identified a site and a number of reservations. Other speakers have has agreed a sum of money with the landowner referred to the public perception of politics and in regard to Kanturk, County Cork. I urge the politicians. For a variety of reasons it has become Government to ensure decentralisation will fashionable to criticise politicians and to presume become a reality. every public representative is in some way cor- Like many Deputies before, it has been my rupt, semi-corrupt, about to be or has been cor- privilege and honour to represent Cork North- rupted. I do not agree with that nor do I accept ´ West in Da´il Eireann for almost eight years. Let that kind of criticism. The majority of public rep- us hope the people of Cork North-West will put resentatives are honest, hard-working and dedi- their faith in me again at the next general cated individuals and contribute a great deal of election—— time to democracy and serving the needs of their constituents. It may be that sometimes the needs Mr. Durkan: That is the proof. of constituents are difficult to satisfy. In the nat- ure of things, some are impossible. As a result, it Mr. Cassidy: After the Deputy. is possible for the public to get the notion that we are deficient in the way we do our work. The Mr. Durkan: The Deputy should not worry. I majority of public representatives and Members will stay on. have in the past given of their time, energy and service in a selfless way. Mr. M. Moynihan: ——and ensure I have the In many other professions in Ireland, Europe opportunity to represent them to the best of my and throughout the world, there are those who ability. I have certainly enjoyed the opportunity have erred and fallen by the wayside in at least of representing them here during the past seven as grievous a way as any of the Members who years. The people can rest assured I will work fell by the wayside from this House. It covers all tirelessly on their behalf. professions. One does not condemn all pro- fessions because of the wrongs of one or two indi- Acting Chairman: I call Deputy Durkan who viduals. It is no harm to remind everybody once has 20 minutes. in a while that some of us try to work as hard as 643 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 644

[Mr. Durkan.] Mr. Durkan: It is a sign of revival and of hope we can for the reasons we were elected, which is for the future. I take no advice from any quarter to serve our constituencies and to legislate. on that issue because I was born and raised in a There is a notion in the thinking quarters that rural area. I do not wish to see a situation as per- a legislator should be ensconced in a glass case tained in eastern Europe when the communists where he or she has no dealings with the public took over after the Second World War. They and that they should legislate from that vantage scooped all the people out of the rural areas and point. I disagree unequivocally with that view. built tower blocks for them beside the cities and Other speakers made the point that meeting their towns in order to control them. I see a little of constituents on a regular basis is the best inspi- that attitude beginning to emerge in this country ration there will ever be for legislation. and I do not like it. There is no other way to evaluate the impact Reference has been made to the PR system. I of legislation passed by this House other than by believe in the PR system. It is the finest possible going and meeting the people regularly and find- method for achieving democracy. I do not agree ing out how legislation as passed by this House with the notion that it should be further refined affects them. It all comes down to the way the and improved because this has been done in the legislation affects the individual. One of the prob- past. Many commentators question the reason lems arising in recent years is the degree to which people do not vote and I can suggest a reason. that old tradition of meeting the people on a reg- Some years ago the Government — I think it was ular basis is beginning to dim. Some people a Government from the other side of the House believe that it influences public representatives in — decided to —— a negative way but I do not agree. The public will Mr. S. Power: The Government usually comes always respond to their representatives and tell from this side of the House. them what they think. It may not always be what we want to hear but they will always tell us. Mr. Durkan: I remind the Deputy they did a I wonder why young people do not hold poli- lot of other funny things. The Government ticians in high esteem. There is no need to ask decided to ban people from congregating outside that question and I regret the Minister of State at polling stations, the reason being that modern the Department for the Environment, Heritage voters did not want unclean and unwashed groups and Local Government has left the Chamber. The of rednecks outside the polling stations inter- housing situation is a classic case. The young gen- fering with their natural process. The result was eration relied on the political system to deliver that people did not turn out to vote. One of the the goods to them. They are quite willing to co- main reasons people went to vote at polling operate and make an effort to assist themselves. stations was because the occasion was like a foot- Down the years politicians were able to encour- ball match. It was part of our tradition and part age the younger generation, the first-time house of the system. A Fianna Fa´il guy and a Fine Gael buyer, to buy their own homes but this is no guy could have a great time in a pub together one longer the case. They have been virtually night and then have a go at each other at the pol- excluded from the system. The waiting lists are ling station in front of everybody else, to the gen- massive, with at least 100,000 waiting. The lists eral jollification of the multitudes there are growing in every county. This is an absolute assembled. One cannot tell that story to some of disgrace and a shame on the system which has the bright-thinking individuals who now rep- allowed it to happen. resent big brother—— A previous speaker referred to young people seeking planning permission in rural areas. It is Mr. Cassidy: Pseudo-intellectuals. deemed to be almost a nasty thing to suggest looking for planning permission in a rural area Mr. Durkan: I would not use the word “intel- because, according to some pundits, nobody lectual”. They are thinkers. should be living in a rural area as these are gard- There was a ritual of going down to the polling ens which should be preserved for certain people station and having a go at one’s next-door neigh- to take a walk on a Sunday and observe the local bour and the same people were quite happy to go to the pub the following night and it was all inhabitants in their natural habitat. I do not agree forgotten. with that notion. There has always been a tra- dition of a rural population and any interference Mr. Morgan: What did the Pioneers do? with that tradition is interfering with the normal and natural evolution of the rural population. Mr. Durkan: Funnily enough, they had a go at There are those who believe a hillside at night each other as well. The fact they were Pioneers should have no lights visible. It has been stated did not inhibit their capacity to have a go at each unequivocally by Professor Caulfield that lights other and they did so on many occasions. on a rural hillside are a sign of life and a sign that emigration is not as rife as it was. Mr. Cassidy: They are the most generous of all. They always knew the next morning what they Mr. Cassidy: Hear, hear. had said. 645 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 646

Mr. Durkan: The theory was that polling day salve their conscience at election time because was a day for politics and democracy, a day for they can claim not to have voted for the Govern- the ritual big occasion in which everybody was ment and voted for an Independent instead who involved. I ask that this notion of measuring the may be neither in the Government nor in the distance from the polling station be scrapped. Opposition. Some Independents will occasionally At the first election held following this rule, we vote with the Government and at other times had to search for the polling stations. I know the vote with the Opposition. Other Independents stations in my constituency and I know the ones will always vote with either the Government or where Deputy Sea´n Power did well, but I had to the Opposition. I do not accept the notion that it look around for them because there were no is necessarily good for the country. I do nothing crowds outside. The spectacle and ritual of the other than congratulate my colleague recently occasion was done away with. elected as an Independent in my constituency. If I cannot allow the occasion pass without refer- I were in Government, I would love to see more ring to this awful debacle of electronic voting. Independent Members elected to the House This is a classic example where it was decided to because I would know the chances of the Govern- improve democracy and improve the voting ment being put out of office would grow slimmer system that had served us well since the found- with more Independent Members. ation of the State. Like those who attempted to The Standards in Public Office Commission improve the roundness of the wheel, so far the recommended a change in the legislation net benefits have not been visible to anybody. resulting in section 6 of the Bill. This change Only one system of voting should be allowed, came about as a result of the famous Kelly case where the voter goes into the polling station and which took place the day after the previous gen- puts their mark on the paper, as happens in eral election was called. Mr. Kelly was a member democracies all over the world. If an electronic of the Fianna Fa´il Party. Despite the annoyance voting system was introduced in some emerging he caused that party, he subsequently successfully democracies, we would immediately hold up our sought a nomination and ran for election. hands and warn the system was open to abuse because it lacks transparency, accountability, a Mr. S. Power: That is democracy. paper trail and verification. It is impossible to invent technology that is sufficiently foolproof. Mr. Durkan: I agree. However, the degree of I refer to the Order Paper of this House and annoyance expressed by some of his colleagues at the electronic scramble of Members’ names for the time was significant. However, giving some- parliamentary questions. On one occasion I coun- one a nomination hardly shows annoyance. The ted five Members whose questions appeared con- amendment introduced by the previous Minister secutively on the Order Paper. The same Deputy for the Environment, Heritage and Local had Questions Nos. 35 and 36, another Deputy had Questions Nos. 37 and 38, and another Government obviously created an anomaly. That Deputy had Questions Nos. 40 and 42. This the judgment in the Kelly case was delivered the should not happen because I am informed the day before the general election meant that all the odds are 500 million to one of this happening in then serving Members of the House and all the the electronic system. candidates had to go through the election cam- I ask the Minister for the Environment, Heri- paign not knowing what the outcome would be. tage and Local Government to cut out this non- They had a sword of Damocles hanging over their sense of carrying electronic voting equipment in heads for the duration of the election campaign. storage all over the country — all the equipment I do not believe that is democracy. is not stored yet. This is in anticipation of the big event which will be hugely costly. The electronic Mr. S. Power: It was the least of our concerns equipment will soon be out of date and it will not during the election. work. This was pointed out by the Opposition. Someone must call a halt to the nonsense of Mr. Durkan: Fianna Fa´il might have had other spending public money without consultation and concerns. However, I will not go down that road. in the knowledge that it could not succeed. It is I do not accept that it is good for democracy for amazing that nobody has accepted responsibility. something like this to happen. It is one matter Nobody has resigned and nobody has been fired. for candidates to look over their shoulders and They may think otherwise but I have the height wonder what the outcome of an election might of respect for Independent Members. It has hap- be. It is an entirely different matter if after the pened that people disagree with their party and election they are faced with the possibility of a become Independent Members. This is a democ- change in the rules applying retrospectively, racy and it is their right to do so. Whichever which was the part I found particularly objection- Government is in power, it loves having many able. This does not mean it might not be neces- Independent Members because it takes the focus sary to go to the courts to deal with other matters. away from the Opposition parties. It clearly indi- However, I believe the separation of powers cates what the Independents are, which is inde- came very close to being breached on that pendent. It gives members of the public a way to occasion. 647 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 648

[Mr. Durkan.] the Da´il constituencies in the light of the 2002 This amendment inserts a subparagraph clarify- census and to implement the recommendations ing the items which are not to be regarded as contained in the constituency boundary com- election expenses at presidential, Da´il and Euro- mission’s report of 2004. While it is relatively pean elections, including free postage provided short legislation, it is very important. It will sig- for candidates. Presumably this refers to postage nificantly enhance or damage sitting Deputies paid by political parties or the State. However, it and candidates in the next general election could also refer to postage provided by anybody depending on where they live. As someone who else. Also included is a service provided free by has the honour of representing the constituency an individual or provided by an employee of a of Westmeath that is to be transferred in part into political party. The Kelly case was based on the two separate electoral constituencies by the con- outgoing Members of the Houses of the stituency commission, I have probably most to Oireachtas having access to their offices, com- fear by the Bill. I am particularly concerned puters etc., which was deemed to be an unfair about the future representation of the people of advantage. However, many candidates had free north Westmeath, whom I have had the pleasure access to many offices throughout the country. of serving in both Houses of the Oireachtas Some of these offices were vast and huge since 1982. resources were available. When the commission was established, its job Some of us were very fastidious in the way we was to review the existing constituency bound- curtailed our expenditure during the previous aries on foot of population trends and to make general election. I came in at approximately recommendations for boundary changes based on \16,500 in a three-seat constituency and almost the national census. It claims to have done this lost my seat. All the time we were warned of the and while a further census of population will be danger of exceeding the expenditure levels. When taken next year, the process involved will take I saw the expenditure declared afterwards by too long to permit a new Bill to be introduced some candidates, I could not see how everybody before the next general election. I believe the had complied. However, it was deemed to be new census will show that the population of West- compliant, which I could not understand. Certain meath has increased substantially in recent years, matters need to be clarified for the future. Also and in the past three years in particular. This included is normal media coverage. How in the population growth will continue as a result of the name of God could normal media coverage be Government’s inward investment in industry and included as an election expense? A candidate new technology and as a result of substantially who tripped and fell could have four or five improved infrastructure in the county, such as photographs published as a result, which would gas, broadband, roads and various other unpre- be deemed as media coverage that would not be cedented improvements we have seen in the normal. I do not know how somebody gets into county. a situation—— Following the 2002 general election, I am proud to be the only Government Deputy in the Mr. O’Dowd: It depends on who pushed the county. It is a wonderful time to be in public life, candidate. assist my native county and do whatever I can for its people from Athlone to Clonmellon to the Mr. Durkan: That is true. The transmission on bridge of Finea and in Mullingar, Kilbeggan and radio or television of a broadcast on behalf of a Coole, areas which are experiencing unpre- candidate or political party is also included. As cedented growth. I am absolutely delighted and we live in the 21st century, how could that ever privileged to be associated with this Government, be considered to be part of an electoral expense which is making it all possible. to be declared? It is part of the normal business we conduct. Mr. Morgan: That should go down in the Section 6 should be contained in a separate Bill Deputy’s election expenses. and should not form part of this legislation. It should be dealt with at length and soon. I would Mr. Cassidy: Speaking as one who has risen the be very upset if it were to transpire that on the hard way, working for 45 years to get where I am, day before the next general election, some other making a success of being a businessperson and enterprising Fianna Fa´il candidate had decided to then entering public life and being able to assist go to the courts on some pretext in an attempt to the people of my native county and, like the Leas- change the law once again. When we go into the Cheann Comhairle, having the great honour of next general election, we need to know before- wearing the county jersey for a few years, I hope hand the grounds and conditions on which it will at the end of my five-year term as a Deputy for be fought. Let us have no smart-alec changes in Westmeath, I will be able to say honestly and the last few days or in the course of the election without any gimmicks or throwaway one-liners campaign. that I have certainly helped make a difference. The new census will show that people have Mr. Cassidy: I welcome the opportunity to come into the county to commute to such places speak on the Bill whose main purpose is revise as Dublin and Kildare. Improvements are hap- 649 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 650 pening in our county. With the economy now in tion so that the electorate can consider the merits such a good state, buoyant and with no emi- of a candidate. gration, we can have great sporting success, some- I will return to the issue of redrawing constitu- thing seen in our unprecedented victory in the ency boundaries. It is not merely politicians who Leinster championship last year. The Bill before are concerned at the proposed changes. Those the House today has raised a great many issues. who live in the constituencies affected are also At election time we all become aware that people extremely concerned, and many of those in north are not on the register although they have voted Westmeath, particularly the Coole district, are for many years previously. For one reason or very upset at the proposal. The commission’s another, through no fault of their own, they have decision to transfer the Coole electoral area in been left off the register. Very many young north Westmeath to the new constituency of people who should be on the register are not, Meath West may well result in there being no especially in areas of increased population where resident Deputy to represent it after the next gen- new communities are being established. Entire eral election. It took the people of Coole in north housing estates are not on the register as they Westmeath 37 years from 1965 to get one. The should be. Leas-Cheann Comhairle is the last Deputy in the Having knocked on doors for perhaps 45 years House who served with the late M. J. Kennedy. and served as a postman in early life, I make this On the day Mr. Kennedy died, 16 February 1965, proposal for the serious consideration of the Sea´n Lemass went to Phoenix Park and called a Minister. It is reasonable to assume that at least general election. From 1965 until my election in 10% of the electorate is disenfranchised from one 2002 the Coole electorate had no representative election to another because of inaccuracies in the from any party in Da´il E´ ireann. That is too long register. I call on the Minister to employ the local for such an unhelpful and unhappy situation to postman or postwoman to assemble the initial obtain. What is the rural community of north register for each electoral area. The first person Westmeath to do for another 37 or 40 years? It is to know that one has moved into an area will be totally unfair that the county boundary has once the postman or postwoman rather than the Garda again been breached, so that we have been put in Sı´ocha´na, as we are led to believe. It may not be with County Meath. We have no difficulty work- the doctor, priest or teacher, although the teacher ing with people there, but the issue is of having a would have a chance with a younger family. The representative at the seat of power with access to one sure-fire person to know is the postman or Ministers, Ministers of State, the Taoiseach and postwoman. I know that, if properly remuner- the Ta´naiste. That is a massive advantage for an ated, they would be the best people to assist in electoral area. assembling the register at election time. I pay I will list my achievements, humble as they are: tribute to the postal employees in my area who the new stand-alone community college in Castle- voluntarily assisted us over the years in the north pollard, which has just been opened; a new, one- Westmeath and Mullingar area in particular, stop shop facility, with 14 staff from Westmeath where I have served for many years. County Council, in Castlepollard; a new fire I was the Leader of Seanad E´ ireann up to 2002, station; and a new centre for the village of Delvin, and a Bill came to the House for our approval all areas that experienced huge emigration over regarding opinion polls being banned for seven the years. Deputies representing or with roots in days before election day. I want to see that rural areas will know the importance of that. It is section restored to this Bill. A seven to ten day bad to split the county and take 30% of the ter- poll ban should include election day. The diffi- rain of north Westmeath, which has only 6,000 culty with the last section was that election day voters. That will give an indication of how rural was not included, as Senator Ross and I noticed an area I was born into and which I am so privi- at about 10.20 p.m., meaning the Bill had to be leged and honoured to represent. reconsidered. That very good and wise section allowed the electorate time for calm consider- Mr. Morgan: Oppose the Bill. ation of the candidates presented to it by the var- ious parties, as well as the Independents. Why Mr. Cassidy: Why did the commission not con- should anyone be allowed to interfere with the sider taking a little part up at Clonee, a high-den- democratic system for which people fought? sity area where 6,000 voters might mean only two People gave their lives to allow us to exercise our or three streets, instead of affecting an entire franchise and vote democratically for our choice third of a county? It baffles me that any fair- of candidate. A man or woman who may not have minded person aware of the geographical divide enormous resources should have as good a should fail to see that, if Meath needs to gain chance of getting the people’s approval as others. 6,000 voters, one can take some areas in Dublin I hope the current Minister will consider bringing that may not have increased in population rather back that section in the interests of democracy, as than take one third of a county. Bad enough as did the last Government and the previous Mini- that is, they have also split the parish of Castle- ster, Deputy Noel Dempsey. As all the parties pollard. At the next election I will not be able to will agree, there should be time for calm reflec- vote for myself, while my brother, 400 metres up 651 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 652

[Mr. Cassidy.] come to the county. Some of this may have been the road, will fortunately still be able to vote for on the way but, as Napoleon once said, “Do not me. A divided community is regrettable. give me good generals, give me lucky ones”. I am I would never have entered politics were it not the lucky Deputy for the county. for my belief in the power of the parish. This is exemplified by St. Patrick’s Day in Croke Park Mr. Morgan: I understood the Minister for and has informed my background in what one can Defence, Deputy O’Dea, was the lucky general. do to assist one’s constituents. When we are dead, it is not what one has done for counties 100 or Mr. O’Dowd: We should put Deputy Cassidy 150 miles away from one’s home that matters but in a lucky bag. what one has done for one’s parish and com- munity. I hope when that time comes for me, the Mr. Cassidy: If that luck is to continue, I am local people will deem that I did my best and confident the people of the county will consider made a difference. me for their first preference in the next election. That is the reason I am here today. I did not I have some advice for colleagues on the other stand for Da´il E´ ireann to make any material gain side of the House who are, like me, first-time but because I saw part of my county, including Deputies. As an Oireachtas Member for 23 years, the great town of Mullingar, not getting its fair I confirm the most difficult time to get elected is share of investment. We did not get it because we the second time. Opposition Members may smile had no representative in ministerial office. and feel confident they are one their way to re- However, I thank colleagues from other counties election for a second time. for their efforts for the area, including the Mini- ster for Finance, Deputy Cowen, the Minister for Mr. Morgan: We do not have to contend with Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Senator O’Rourke. Deputy Dempsey, and Senator O’Rourke. Mr. Cassidy: However, they should be wary of Mr. Morgan: Deputy Cassidy is on dangerous the underdog. I am not beaten yet and am fired ground. up for the challenge. Anybody who hopes to take my seat will have much hard work to do between Mr. O’Dowd: Would the Deputy vote for now and the next general election because I have Senator O’Rourke? worked hard for the last three years and will con- tinue to do so. Mr. Cassidy: When the Senator was in her Min- istry in Athlone, she did her best for our county. Mr. O’Dowd: Whoever takes the seat will not be whining to the media but will be working Mr. Morgan: The Senator may be listening to hard locally. what Deputy Cassidy says. Mr. Cassidy: I might even increase my efforts. Mr. O’Dowd: The real electoral contest will be In the words of Al Jolson, “You ain’t seen between Deputy Cassidy and Senator O’Rourke. nothing yet”.

Mr. Cassidy: The most important issue for the Mr. Morgan: I would vote for Deputy Cassidy people of County Westmeath at the next general after hearing him speak. election is that our county should elect Govern- ment Deputies. Mr. Cassidy: This Bill should have provided for two extra Da´il seats. The commission could have Mr. O’Dowd: The electorate will do so and recommended either a reduction of two seats to they will be Fine Gael Deputies. 164 or an increase of two to 168. It is a shame it did not choose the latter approach. The people Mr. Cassidy: My party has been in Opposition of north Westmeath and Leitrim have much in in the past and I am aware of what we can do for common. Neither area has got its fair share of the the people of Westmeath when we are in spoils of the Celtic tiger. However, all the hard Government. work has been put in place to ensure this situa- The recommendations of the constituency tion will be rectified. We are all here to effect boundary commission mean I have lost 24% of change and to do our best on behalf of the people my first preference vote, or 1,907 votes. My col- with whom we were reared. league, Deputy Penrose, has lost 608 votes, Fairness must prevail. This is not the case in Deputy Paul McGrath has lost 807 votes and respect of north Westmeath and Leitrim where in Senator O’Rourke has lost 104 votes. The odds the case of each, 30% of the electorate is being seems to be stacked against me retaining my seat. taken away from its natural terrain. However, There may be an uphill battle but I place the there is no doubt the commission had a difficult same confidence in the people at the next general job which it undertook according to what it con- election that I did on the last occasion. They sidered the best interests of the electorate. I had responded magnificently and it is clear they made the great honour of sitting beside Paudge the correct decision given the investment that has Brennan and Se´amus Mallon when I first entered 653 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 654 the Seanad in 1982. Paudge Brennan was always the constituency commission should be recon- good for a one-liner and he once said, “there is vened. The Minister has failed to do this. never the right time to do the right thing”. The Sinn Fe´in made a submission to the constitu- correct approach for the commission to take the ency commission about constituencies for the next time it sits is to treat county boundaries as election of Members to the Da´il. Our submission sacrosanct. was based not only on the need to consider If changes must be made, it is better they take boundaries in the context of the 2002 census place in the large cities, including Dublin, Cork results but, more importantly, in the context of and Galway. In these areas, a Deputy will secure what constitutes a just representative electoral 6,000 votes in an area of only half a mile. In rural system. Our concerns centre on the increase in north Westmeath, by contrast, the population of the number of three-seat constituencies. We must the village of Coole was shown to have declined consider why these seem to be the favoured by 1.6% in the last census. I have been honoured option for dealing with population growth and to represent the people of Castlepollard, Fore, change. Is it because three-seat constituencies Collinstown, Ballymanus, Delvin, Clonmellon have always entirely favoured larger parties such and Riverdale in Raharney. This latter village has as Fianna Fa´il? Does this represent an attempt to been split by the commission. It makes no sense protect the political interests of such parties? to divide 300 people in a rural area so that 100 By once again increasing the number of three- are assigned to a constituency in County Meath seat constituencies, this legislation further dilutes and 200 stay in Longford-Westmeath. It is a the proportionality of our electoral system. This heartless act. is not in the interest of diversity nor it is in the I look forward to being returned as a Deputy interest of the people. For the third consecutive for the people of new constituency of Longford- commission, the number of five seat constituenc- Westmeath. People from Westmeath have always ies has been cut while the number of three seat worked well with those of Longford. We form a constituencies steadily grows. I am concerned the natural terrain of co-operation and were part of existence of three seat constituencies in certain the same area for the purpose of the former areas and five seat constituencies in others health board, for example. I will be honoured and creates inequality between voters in different privileged to continue to serve as a Member of parts of the State. Nowhere is that more clearly Da´il E´ ireann with the wishes of the electorate of demonstrated than in the city of Dublin. Almost Longford-Westmeath. I will conclude with the all the constituencies north of the Liffey have words of Abraham Lincoln: “I do the very best I three seats but there are a number of five seat know how; the very best I can; and I mean to constituencies on the other side of the river. keep on doing it to the end.” Could it be that the Government does not trust the bulk of the working class people on the Mr. Morgan: One wonders whether Abraham northern side of the Liffey to do the right thing Lincoln was also a parish man. That last contri- at election time? Is it the case that the people bution lacked only a lorry decked out with flags from the more leafy lanes on the southern side and perhaps a chapel with a congregation emerg- are prepared to elect what I heard many Mini- ing to hear the triumphalist speech. This will not sters describe as “right thinking people”? It is cut ice with Members on this side of the House. grossly unfair that is the case. However, I am pleased to hear Deputy Cassidy is The Government side referred to the indepen- opposed to this legislation or the elements of it dent nature of the commission. That is not good which split county boundaries. I look forward to enough. The essential problem is the commission the Deputy joining the ranks of the Opposition is constrained by legislation to have constituenc- when it counts most, in voting against this Bill. ies sized between three and five seats. Therein There is no doubt the importance of the legis- lies part of the problem. It is worth contrasting lation governing our electoral process cannot be the seven and even nine seat constituencies, overstated. When such legislation is flawed, as which were evident in this State when it was this Bill clearly is, it must be opposed in the established in the early 1920s, with the mainly strongest possible manner. This is what Sinn Fe´in three or four seat constituencies in this so-called intends to do. The legislation governing the work modern age. It is ironic that the founders of the of the constituency commission which drew up State — of course, pre-Blueshirt time — had a the recommendations being implemented in this greater awareness and social conscience by Bill was itself flawed. This should be a matter of allowing proper representation and pro- the deepest concern to all those committed to portionality in this Parliament as opposed to what retaining the integrity of our electoral process. we have now and the current Government. Some months ago, I put Sinn Fe´in’s view Proportional representation with a single trans- regarding the constituency commission’s recom- ferable vote using multi-seat constituencies was mendations on the record when I raised the not designed with the intention of applying it to matter on the Adjournment. At that time I urged three seat constituencies. The number of the Minister to reject those recommendations and Members returned per constituency is a crucial to introduce legislation to allow the formation of component of the Irish electoral system. The six-seat and seven-seat constituencies, after which higher the number of Members returned per con- 655 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 656

[Mr. Morgan.] The previous speaker alluded to the possibility stituency, the greater the proportionality of that of using An Post for that purpose. That is a won- system. My party will bring forward amendments derful idea but I am concerned that by the time to section 6(2)(b) of the Electoral Act 1997 to of the next election, there will be no such thing allow for the formation of six and seven seat con- as a postman or a postwoman given this Govern- stituencies in that larger constituency size adds ment’s current policies. If there are a few An Post the quality of extra proportionality to the elec- employees left in rural Ireland, they will have no toral system as a whole. If accepted, these amend- idea who is resident in a house because they will ments will restore the positive attributes of the leave post in the green box at the end of the lane proportional representation single transferable or even the end of the townland. They will not vote system in terms of local accountable rep- have the intimate knowledge of the rural popu- resentatives and voters being able to make inter lation members of An Post currently have. That and intra party choices. is one important element of the work An Post I reiterate the case alluded to by a number of could carry out. Ensuring a proper registration speakers concerning County Leitrim. My party is system is put in place would be an additional ser- opposed to the division of County Leitrim vice for the people and the institutions of this between the two proposed new constituencies of State. It would also require a significant change Sligo-North Leitrim and Roscommon-South in Government policy because the thrust to gear Leitrim which this Bill will implement. Section the postal service for privatisation will not assist 6(2)(c) of the Electoral Act 1997 states that “the that institution in terms of facilitating the regis- breaching of county boundaries shall be avoided tration drive. as far as practicable”. It is unfortunate that is A number of speakers have spoken against the being completely ignored in the case of Leitrim. breaching of county boundaries which I fully sup- Although there was an element of partisan port. However, the number of seats per constitu- electioneering in Deputy Cassidy’s contribution, ency is even more important. Three or four seat I accept the points he made about breaching constituencies do not facilitate proportionality as county boundaries and about areas with large envisaged under proportional representation sin- population densities which would be much more gle transferable vote system. If that core principle able to accommodate those changes. If Deputy of our electoral system is to be re-established, we Cassidy is to carry that conviction through to its must revert to large constituency sizes — perhaps logical conclusion, he should oppose this Bill to seven or nine seat constituencies which were because it does exactly the opposite. in place in the early days of this State. It has caused major concern and upset in County Leitrim. There is a genuine feeling that Mr. J. Brady: I am glad to speak on this Bill the splitting of the county will prevent the people but I, like many others, have been badly affected of Leitrim from electing a person from that by the change. Although I welcome two three county to the Da´il, perhaps for the foreseeable seat constituencies in County Meath, future. If the amendments I propose regarding 1 o’clock I am disappointed some of the areas the permitted size of a constituency were of north Meath, particularly my accepted, the constituency commission could be home area of Kells which I have served for reconvened to consider the possibility of estab- almost 30 years as a county councillor, has been lishing a six seat constituency comprising the divided. It is unfair to the people of what is a three counties of Sligo, Leitrim and Roscommon quite rural area. My colleague and friend from and avoid the unacceptable division of County County Louth sitting in the benches opposite, Leitrim between the two proposed new constitu- Deputy O’Dowd, would be familiar with much of encies. This legislation further damages the integ- that area which is close to Ardee and includes rity of our electoral system and will, no doubt, Drumcondra and part of the Slane area as far as contribute to the growing levels of apathy among Monknewtown, close to Drogheda. It is a very voters in particular and the public in general. rural area whose inhabitants tried for years to get The issue of registration was raised by the pre- a real rural Deputy who could serve them. vious speaker. Rate collectors used to handle Eventually, in 1997 they got a Deputy who knew registration for the local authority. Since the what rural life was all about and who had worked abolition of rates in 1977 that whole project has for the people of the area. been put on the backburner. It is completely hap- hazard at this stage. The rate collector still visits Mr. O’Dowd: Was that Deputy McEntee? each locality, will call to a small number of houses and will take a sounding from those people on Mr. J. Brady: This was my electoral area of who has moved into the area, who has died, who Kells which runs from the far side of Oldcastle, is moving on and who should be on the register. past Mountnugent and up to Kingscourt on one It is generally conducted in a haphazard manner. side and back up to Ardee on the other side. As There should be a significant registration drive to a Deputy, I was assigned that part of the Slane ensure all those entitled to vote are registered to area with which Deputy O’Dowd would be very do so, otherwise they simply will not count at familiar. These areas have little in common with election time. The next issue is how to manage it. Ashbourne, Ratoath, Dunboyne or Dunshaughlin 657 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 658 and it is unfortunate that the Kells area has been continue to do for the people of Longford-West- split up. meath, he will be successful in that new constitu- I remember that when I was first elected to ency. I hope I will be as successful with that part Meath County Council in 1974, part of the Kells of County Westmeath which will come into the area was included in the constituency of Cavan new Meath West constituency. and helped to elect one great man, the famous As I stated earlier, I thank the people of the Ta´naiste. old Meath constituency, particularly those from areas which I served for 30 years in the old Kells Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; district such as Moynalty, Tierworker, Newcastle, House counted and 20 Members being present, Nobber, Drumcondra, Meathill, Ballinaclose, Kil- mainhamwood and Kilbeg who have been very Mr. J. Brady: Before being interrupted by the good to me. Those people have also been very Opposition, I was being complimentary to good to me since I was elected to the Da´il in 1997. Deputy O’Dowd. I was surprised, but these Other areas of the Navan district have also been things happen. affected. It is sad to lose these areas and the great people in the Slane area of east Meath who have Mr. O’Dowd: I wanted the Deputy to have a been very good to me. I thank them for their sup- good audience. port over the previous two general elections. I am badly affected by the changes brought Mr. J. Brady: In 1974, when I was elected to about by the constituency boundary commission Meath County Council, part of the Kells area in but Deputy Cassidy and Deputy Ellis, who has north Meath was included in the constituency of seen his county of Leitrim divided in two, are in Cavan. As I said, it helped to elect the great a worse situation. I know that the Minister of former Ta´naiste, John Wilson, who held several State at the Department of the Environment, ministerial posts, including education, and whose Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Batt nephew is a Member of the Upper House. The O’Keeffe, has been affected by the changes. other part of the Kells area was included in the However, we must move on and there will be constituency of Monaghan, before Monaghan and plenty of challenges in the new constituencies. Cavan were joined together to form a single five- Another aspect of the constituency changes seat constituency. This area of north Meath, with which I was disappointed was that the which included part of Nobber and Drumcondra and extended to Carlanstown helped the present members of the constituency boundary com- Ceann Comhairle to be elected in the constitu- mission who made these decisions, honourable ency of Monaghan at that time. and highly thought of as they may be, unfortu- That area later reverted back to the Meath con- nately probably do not know the landscape of stituency. One also had a situation whereby the parts of these constituencies. There is a very small Coole area of north Westmeath was included in Gaeltacht area in Meath that consists of Baile the Meath constituency. It helped my great Gib and Rath Cairn. It is unfortunate that these friend, colleague and councillor, Michael Lynch, two areas have been divided under the new con- with whom I served for 30 years, to be elected to stituency changes. Both areas are in the Kells this House a number of times. Finally, we electoral area but Baile Gib is now assigned to reverted to our own five seat constituency from the Meath East constituency while Rath Cairn which I was honoured to be elected in 1997. will be assigned to the Meath West constituency. Unfortunately, a change has come which will div- My colleague, Deputy Noel Dempsey, has looked ide my area in two. Of the five Deputies elected after Rath Cairn over recent years and that area in 2002, I am the only one who has been badly will remain in our constituency for the moment. affected. However, although I have been, perhaps I am very disappointed and saddened for the I am fortunate to be getting the area which will people of Baile Gib because I represented that be lost by my great friend and colleague, Deputy area for the last eight years and it was an area Cassidy. The Coole district, including Castlepol- that needed considerable attention and help. lard, Fore, Delvin, Collinstown, Clonmellon and Many measures are under way in Baile Gib to part of Ratharney will be incorporated into the promote the Irish language. I thank the Minister Meath West constituency. for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, I pay tribute to Deputy Cassidy and sympathise Deputy E´ amon O´ Cuı´v, who has been very help- with him for losing the Coole electoral area of ful to me in my efforts to help and promote the County Westmeath. As we know, Deputy Cassidy Irish language in the Baile Gib area. It is sad that has been a very hard-working Deputy for the the people in Baile Gib must now go into a new people of the county and constituency of West- constituency and I hope that my colleagues, meath. He was the first Deputy to be elected including Deputy Mary Wallace, will represent from north Westmeath since 1965. It is sad that Baile Gib and help its people because it is a grow- having been finally elected in 2002, this change ing area that needs assistance. I hope that Baile affecting him comes along. It is not easy and I Gib’s representatives will continue to fight to see wish him well. I know that because of the work that it gets the same attention as other Gael- he has done for the people of Westmeath and will tacht areas. 659 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 660

[Mr. J. Brady.] portion of rented accommodation and house We may be disappointed and saddened by sales, and new housing estates and buildings are these constituency changes but we must move on. constructed. It is a job that needs a specifically We must move into our new constituencies and designated officer to carry it out and he or she help the people living in them. The situation should be paid properly to ensure the job is done could have been worse if the new M3 had divided properly. Many national and local public rep- our constituency. That would have finished me resentatives are concerned by the inaccuracies in off for all time. Fortunately, the route that would the register. have divided Kells from where I live was not On the issue of polling day and voter turnout, chosen. That would have been a disaster. we have all witnessed the decline in voter turnout Meath is a changing constituency and county. in recent years, especially in European elections The M3 will bring enormous benefits to the and referendums. The turnout recently has been county. I hope construction of the road will considerably down on what it was a number of receive permission to proceed because the unfor- years ago. Part of the difficulty relates to students tunate people who travel this route every day face and employment. Everyone seems to be long commutes to Dublin. I am familiar with this. employed now, for example, husband and wife or My colleague, Deputy McEntee, spoke on the both partners in a relationship, and it can be diffi- radio this morning while caught in traffic about cult to ensure that one votes on a working day. I how he had never realised how long the commute strongly suggest that the change to Fridays has could be. When I first took my seat in the Da´il in been unsuccessful, in particular for students. 1997, I could leave my house at 8.30 a.m. and Serious consideration should be given to moving arrive at Leinster House at 9.45 a.m. Now I must voting to Sundays, which would give everyone an leave the house at 7.30 a.m. to arrive at Leinster opportunity. No one would have a reasonable House at 9.45 a.m. This is an example of the excuse not to vote on a Sunday. change that has taken place in Meath. I have said from day one that there is no The county now faces the major change necessity for electronic voting. Even the proper brought about by its division into two constitu- use of State money concerning this issue is a encies. I thank the people I represented in the waste as electronic voting is not necessary for the old Meath constituency who will move to the new working of the electoral, proportional represen- Meath East constituency for their support. I hope tation and democratic systems. Good use could I will be returned to this House in the new Meath be made of this money in other areas, including West constituency in the next general election in our health, educational and other services. Elec- 2007. While I am always ready to help the people tronic voting should be set aside. No undue diffi- in rural north Meath, I am also willing, should I culty exists with the current manual system. I be re-elected, to use my considerable experience strongly object to the information that has come to assist the people of the highly populated areas into the public domain recently whereby electoral of Ashbourne or Dunboyne with their problems. officials, returning officers or their relatives have contracts to store electronic voting machines that Mr. Healy: I thank Deputies Cowley and Har- have never been used and will never be used. This kin for facilitating me. Many issues arise out of is a serious situation that should not be allowed this Bill and I would like to address briefly the to continue. Where it has happened, the Depart- issues of the register of electors, voter turnout, ment should raise it with the individuals con- polling days, electronic voting and the storage of cerned and stop it immediately. Serious questions electronic voting machines, the increase in the would be asked if a Deputy or a close relation of number of three-seat constituencies, the decrease a Member of the House were involved in activity in the number of five-seat constituencies and the of this nature. This situation does not help our diminution of proportionality that the recom- democratic system or make for transparency or mendations of the constituency boundary com- good governance. mission will bring about. The Bill is fundamentally flawed due to the In my experience over recent years, the register commission’s terms of reference. My basic con- of electors has not been compiled in the fashion cern is the increase in the number of three-seat that it was previously. A significant number of constituencies and the proposed division of people are not on the register and many are on County Leitrim between so-called “Sligo-North the register who have either died or changed Leitrim” and “Roscommon-South Leitrim”. The address. Since the specific duty of revenue collec- recommendations in the Constituency Com- tors has been changed, the formulation of the mission’s report, which would be implemented register has suffered. There needs to be a specifi- were this Bill passed, take us further down the cally designated officer, whether it is a revenue road of diluting proportionality in the electoral collector, new officer in a local authority or some- system. This is not in the interests of diversity, one like a postperson, with responsibility for democracy or individual electors. What is obvious ensuring that the register of electors is up to date. from the report is that, for the third consecutive Compiling the register is not an easy job, commission, we have a situation wherein the especially in built-up urban areas where people number of five-seat constituencies has been cut change address frequently, there is a high pro- and the number of three-seat constituencies sig- 661 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 662 nificantly increased. This is not good for pro- town of Clonmel and that town is the nearest portional representation. centre for shopping and work. At least in that I will refer to and thank the “Save Leitrim” instance the commission’s approach is under- campaign for information on this subject, a sub- standable. Splitting a county, particularly a ject that affected me in 1997. The campaign’s county such as Leitrim, in two should not be information shows that, in general elections from accepted. I would like substantive amendments to 1987 on and taking the 1997 and 2002 elections be made to this Bill before it is passed, partic- as examples, a significant number of individuals, ularly in regard to county boundaries, the terms be they independents or from political parties, of reference of a future commission, electronic received in excess of 20% of the vote in three seat voting, the day of voting and the preparation of constituencies but were not elected. For instance, the register of electors. I got 21.6% of the vote in my constituency in 1997 but was not elected. Former Deputy, Mr. Paddy Dr. Cowley: I am pleased to speak on this Bill. Harte, got 21.8% in Donegal North East. Deputy Its provisions reflect a shift of population from Martin Ferris in Kerry North got 20.4%. Former rural to urban areas as a result of the new com- Deputy, Mr. Tom Berkery, got 21.6% in muter culture, principally in the counties around Tipperary North. In the 2002 election, Mr. Dessie Dublin. It is obvious any further change in the Ellis in Dublin North West got 21.4% of the vote. future will reflect more an urban than a rural Former Deputy, Mr. Dick Spring, got 23.9% in population. That is regrettable. Successive speak- Kerry North. Former Deputy, Mr. Alan Dukes, ers have talked about the need to retain county got 23.9% in Kildare South. Senator Noel boundaries. The Bill proposes changes in 23 con- Coonan in Tipperary North got 23%. stituencies, leaves 15 unchanged and creates five If we had been running in any contiguous con- new ones but replaces four existing ones. stituency of more than three seats and received I wish to refer to remarks made by speakers similar percentages, we would have been elected of political parties, Deputies Ring and Durkan. on the first count because we would have won Deputy Durkan did not accept the contention more votes than the Deputies elected therein. In that Independents were good for the nation. I all these examples, a substantial section of the strongly disagree with that view. We address the electorate could feel justifiably annoyed that their issues that the political parties do not address. We chosen candidates were not elected. Understand- would not be here were it not for the fact that the ing how the system can be fair in such circum- political parties have ignored the real issues of stances is difficult. The full benefits of the PR concern to people, particularly those in the west system are not being spread fairly throughout the and north west who have suffered in this regard. electorate. The situation of candidates not being Changes are occurring. My fear is that we are elected on more than 20% of the overall vote whereas they would have been elected on the first moving from rural to urban representation, of count in four or five seat constituencies does not which we already have enough. add up and is unfair. There is great disillusionment with the political The commission’s terms of reference must be parties and I do not know if the proposed changes significantly changed. The reduction in the will help in any way to dispel that. It will be more number of five-seat constituencies dilutes the difficult for Independents and candidates of small proportionality our system has always had. The parties to get elected. People have voted with increase in the number of three-seat constituenc- their feet to more than double the number of ies does not help democracy or the PR system. Independents elected to this Da´il. That did not Six-seat constituencies should be included in the happen by chance but because people realised terms of reference. That they exclude anything that representation by Independents was the way other than three to five-seat constituencies dilutes forward. Independents are an advocate for the the proportionality of our system. The number of people. They can best represent the issues of con- five and six-seat constituencies should be cern in a constituency by cutting out the middle increased to ensure proportionality and fairness man, as it were, and the political party agenda. It are facts rather than fictions. is obvious that a group of Independents on a The breaching of county boundaries must be shared policy platform can go forward in a posi- avoided at all costs. That a county such as Leitrim tive way. Although Independents can still con- will almost certainly no longer be in a position to tinue to pursue individual constituency issues, the elect a county man or woman to Da´il E´ ireann is public would have an organised group for whom not good for democracy, Leitrim or this House. to vote at the next general election. The terms of reference of the commission must There is a move towards an Independent be strengthened to ensure county boundaries are alliance, which could well hold the balance of not be breached in this way. In my constituency power in the next general election and be in a the county boundary is breached but at least the position to participate in Government on the other term of reference of the commission, the basis of agreed policies. Nobody can doubt that natural boundary, is adhered to. On the southern Independents are here to stay. Not only that, but side of my constituency, the strip of Waterford they will be a major force to be reckoned with that is in Tipperary South is contiguous to the in future. 663 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 664

Ms Harkin: Hear, hear. tion of the State, and party agenda is more of the same. Dr. Cowley: Members of political parties like That issue is the difference between the Inde- to say that Independents are powerless. They say pendent alliance or any proposed Independent that Independents are single issue candidates but alliance and the political parties. The political that could not be further from the truth. People parties are not people-centred or issues-centred. were extremely disappointed when Deputy The Independent alliance is organised on the Twomey defected to the Fine Gael benches. basis of policies. The alliance is about people, not power, and that is the difference. Mr. O’Dowd: He saw the light. One need only reflect on what happened in the this Da´il and what may happen in the next Da´il. Dr. Cowley: People saw the darkness because Independent Deputies represent a highly credible they felt they were going back into the Dark percentage of the total Members of Da´il E´ ireann. Ages—— It is obvious that members of the electorate have great potential in this regard and the power is in Mr. O’Dowd: That is what the Deputy their hands. That should never be forgotten by represents. the political parties and their hangers-on who work out the permutations and combinations and Dr. Cowley: ——and, unfortunately, they saw have it all solved. The people have the power are the train coming down the track. It is obvious that prepared to use it and I am convinced they will people recognise that Independent Members use it. have the capacity, which they have utilised in the There are crucial issues that unite Indepen- past, to exert an effect on Government above and dents and drive them to seek election to the Da´il beyond their numbers. One need only recall how in the first instance. In addressing those common Deputy Gregory made a multimillion pound deal issues, which are very clear, Independents can go with the then Government and the influence forward on a common platform. exerted by Deputy Healy-Rae to recognise the There is a great need to protect the rural popu- balance of power effect of a small number of lation. Remote areas, in particular, and gutted Independents. It is amazing what can be done in inner city areas are opposite ends of the spectrum such circumstances. If people do not believe that, but they are equally depopulated and neglected. they need only look to the PDs and note their All those areas deserve to have proper represen- small number of members yet the effect they have tation from their Deputies and not lose such rep- above and beyond their numbers because they resentation as is currently happening. have incorporated their policies into the prog- The more representation an area has, the ramme for Government. There is no reason Inde- greater chance it has of having access to better pendents could not do that and they will do that. services. I have often spoken about the vicious circle, which I have observed, of services being These are the issues that matter to the people. If lost in rural areas with the continuing trend of there are Members representing the issues that depopulation. If one can break the vicious circle matter to the people in such numbers and the by providing the necessary services, one can make electorate has that power to return sufficient a difference. That is what Deputy Gregory did Deputies to make a difference, they will make a with his multimillion pound deal for Dublin inner difference. city. He made a difference by securing the People view Independent Deputies as very resources to put in place the necessary services to much a credible alternative who would put for- retain the population and give new life to an area. ward policies on issues on a common platform Independents have the know-how to do that, to which they would put before the people in a gen- represent people’s real needs and to do some- eral election campaign, and the people would thing about meeting them. They can feel the pain then be in a position to return many more Inde- of the people’s neglect and can cry from the heart pendents. The numbers of Independents doubled for equality and justice to halt the decline, in this Da´il and in the next Da´il, at the very least, whether it is happening in an inner city or a rural 21 plus Independents might be elected. I do not area. The only way to break the vicious circle of believe Independents would be so arrogant as to continuing depopulation is by the provision of state in advance they would not speak to any adequate infrastructure. The lack of such pro- group who would be capable of forming a vision has been the difficulty. Government. That is my opinion. The name of Currently we are awaiting an announcement the game is to implement the people’s policies, regarding the western rail corridor, in respect of not to advance the party agenda. It is the latter which provision is extremely important. From a that has got in the way of solving the issues facing value for money perspective, it makes great sense the people of the west, north west and so on. to support the west by supporting the western rail I do not doubt that many members of political corridor, which is the largest and most important parties are genuine but the political party agenda piece of infrastructure in the west. This important and the centralising policy of the parties, get in infrastructure is lying fallow, which needs to the way. That has been the case since the forma- change. The big fear everyone has, and it is a real 665 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 666 fear, is that the political parties will repeat the constituencies in North Connaught-North Leins- same old story. It is expected that the political ter area with three-seaters named Sligo-North parties will just throw money at the most popu- Leitrim and Roscommon-South Leitrim as well as lated part of the region and forget about the a four-seater in Longford-Westmeath. The div- remainder of it until the year dot. That would be ision of County Leitrim into two constituencies, par for the course for the political parties but I Sligo-North Leitrim and Roscommon-South hope I am wrong. I hope the Minister will Leitrim, will make it next to impossible for announce funding which is front-loaded for the Ireland’s least populated county to return a development of the entire western rail corridor. Deputy and will mean that Leitrim will not have The Minister, Deputy O´ Cuı´v’s, idea of a CLA´ R any quality representation in the Da´il. It would area, which is based on the greatest areas of be a shame if there was not representation in the depopulation and deprivation, should be applied Da´il of the calibre of Deputy Harkin, who did to the western rail corridor and the money wonderful work before she was elected to the invested in Mayo and Sligo. These are the areas House for the development of the west, and con- that need to have the funding front-loaded to tinues to do so both at Da´il and EU level. Were ensure that balanced regional development will it not an independent commission, people might occur. cynically say that there is something afoot here. I The cost of the Luas and other developments was interested that Fianna Fa´il members were not in Dublin is significant. There is currently men- included in the list Deputy Healy read. tion of a third terminal for Dublin Airport. When The Government should re-examine the legis- I spoke about a second terminal at Knock Airport lation that requires each constituency to have at there was a right hullabaloo about it. Why does least three and no more than five Da´il seats. Six it make sense to have 17 million people travelling seats should be allowed in a constituency where to the east of the country, when less than half county boundaries determine a natural constitu- a million people are travelling to the west to an ency. This would give greater freedom of choice international airport which is a wonderful facility. and representation in counties Tipperary, Kerry, It would make much more sense for people to use Cork, Meath, Donegal, Sligo-Leitrim and that airport rather than trying to pile more people Roscommon. into the congested Dublin area where traffic is The Bill provides for two fewer five-seat con- reduced to ass and cart pace. People cannot get stituencies than exist currently and favours estab- in or out of the city, yet there is talk of a third lishment parties, thus preventing new voices from terminal while a second terminal at Knock will entering the Da´il. My colleague, Deputy not be considered. McGrath, has called the loss of one of the five When I talk about a second terminal at Knock, seats in his Dublin North Central constituency an I am referring to a proper apron where there is a attack on democracy, with which I agree. It would rapid turnaround time to allow a number of jet be a tragedy if the cold undemocratic hand of so- aircraft to arrive on schedule at the airport. The called electoral reform was to extinguish one of Government has not invested money in Knock Da´il E´ ireann’s brightest stars. Electoral reform is Airport. It has treated it just like another local a misnomer. Electoral gerrymandering would be airport and not a wonderful catalyst for the whole a more correct description of what is going on west and north west area. It never recognised it here. I wish Deputy McGrath every good luck. I as the wonderful international airport which it is. hope he will be returned to the Da´il because it Because all the funding has been invested in Cork would be tragic if he was not. and Dublin airports, it means that Knock Airport Any loss of representation in the Da´il runs will not realise its full potential. If people are counter to democracy. The Bill provides for 18 talking in mad terms about putting second and three-seat constituencies and 12 five-seat con- third terminals into Dublin, why not put that stituencies. The move away from five-seat con- development into Knock, including the roads stituencies is regrettable and damaging because leading in and out of Mayo and so on? Why not it makes it more difficult for small parties and put that money into the western rail corridor, independents to grow and gain seats. which would make much more sense than further I do not believe electronic voting should be depopulating the area? used in the future. Many people here said they The vicious circle continues with loss of ser- were against electronic voting from the begin- vices. It can only be broken by adequate infra- ning. There is a saying, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix structure. Whether one lives in Ballycroy, County it”. Why should we do away with something the Mayo, or Tallaght, County Dublin, the need for people enjoy? We have already lost more than adequate resources and supporting services is the \52 million of taxpayers’ money on this fiasco same. Whether one lives in Kildare or wherever, called electronic voting, and we will lose more. there needs to be the infrastructure to support All these machines are still stored away. It would houses. There needs to be playgrounds and be better to cut our losses and retain the system adequate resources for people to live in an area. we currently have, which serves us well and fits The creation of three-seat constituencies in in ideally with the blood sport which is politics in rural areas damages the equality of represen- Ireland. People are trying to do away with hare tation. This Bill will see the new configuration of coursing, with which I agree. However, I would 667 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 668

[Dr. Cowley.] dropped from 155,000 — this was the population like to see one blood sport retained, that is, the some 150 years ago — to 25,000 by the time of current system of voting. It is a good system the last census? Is it because it is believed that which people enjoy and it should be retained. the people of the county do not matter? Is it The former Deputy, Paddy Harte, said that the believed that they do not have sufficient political Constitution states that each constituency shall clout? Is it because the county was split before? have not less than three members, and the 1997 County Leitrim found itself as the only county Electoral Act says not more than five members. without a Deputy resident in the county. Da´il E´ ireann has the power to alter that law, and County Leitrim was once carved up between rightly so. Mr. Harte said it is time to re-examine three constituencies for the general elections the Act and consider amending the law to allow between 1969 and 1973. When it happened that six seats in a constituency where the county there was no Deputy resident in the county, the boundaries determine the natural constituency, backlash was such that action was taken to try to with which I agree. A new six-seat constituency address the problem so it would never arise again. law would give greater freedom of choice and be It was decided that the only possible solution was more democratic in Tipperary, Kerry, Cork South to protect the county boundary as an integral and East, Meath, Donegal, Sligo-Leitrim and electoral unit. This was to ensure that every Roscommon. county, not just County Leitrim, would have a fair I agree that people come into the Da´il to do chance of electoral representation in Da´il their best but the political party agenda is getting E´ ireann. in the way of what people wish to do. There is Since the first independent commission was another way. When there are permutations and established in 1980, County Leitrim was reunited combinations by the political parties and their as an electoral unit. To protect the county from friends in the media and elsewhere, they should being carved up in the future, it was agreed that remember there is another alternative which the a statutory protection be imposed on it requiring people recognise, namely, the independent alter- that county boundaries be protected where prac- native, which is a credible one. ticable. There is no doubt but that this protection was put in place to ensure that smaller counties, Ms Harkin: I am pleased to have an oppor- particularly County Leitrim, would never be with- tunity to speak on the Bill. I give my full support out a resident Deputy. Nevertheless, County to Deputy Cowley who spoke so eloquently of Leitrim finds itself in this position 25 years later. the need for balanced regional development, One might well ask how this could happen. including further development at Knock Airport, One reason is that both major political parties, front-loading funding to the western rail corridor Fianna Fa´il and Fine Gael, made submissions to and giving a fair share of funds to the regions. the electoral commission stating the county The current spending imbalance under the should be split in two. Regardless of what national development plan is a disgrace and members of these parties are now saying, their Governments should hang their heads in shame. parties’ recommendation was that north Leitrim Balanced regional development is supposed to be should become part of a constituency with Sligo a key objective of the national development plan, and that south Leitrim should become part of a yet the Government has turned its back on the constituency with Roscommon. I have no doubt concept of balanced regional development simply these submissions influenced the commission, by not giving equal expenditure to the regions. otherwise it would not have accepted them. While I will deal now with the Bill. The Bill is first the commission is independent, it does take the and foremost about democracy and ensuring that advice of Fianna Fa´il and Fine Gael. The advice the wishes of the electorate are fairly reflected in was that the county should be split, carved up and the results of any election. We have an indepen- divided. One cannot have it both ways. Those dent commission that must operate within its who vote for this Bill are saying to the people of terms of reference. One of the problems here is County Leitrim, north and south, that they want its terms of reference. One of the stipulations is the county to be carved up. Ultimately, the that the number of members in a constituency county will have to bear the consequences of must be restricted to between three and five. I our actions. will return to the issue later. It certainly restricts I listened to Deputy Cassidy speaking about the manoeuvring of the commission. County Westmeath and the problems faced by All politics is local and therefore the first issue the people in Coole. I sympathise with them but on which I want to comment is the proposal by their problem is not in the same league as that the electoral commission to split County Leitrim faced by the people of County Leitrim. Imagine in two for electoral purposes. The recommend- if County Westmeath did not have a Deputy. ations in this regard will have very serious con- Would it put up with it? Would counties sequences for the county. There is considerable Roscommon or Sligo put up with it? They would anger in the county at this prospect. not, and rightly so. Neither should County People in County Leitrim ask quite rightly why Leitrim put up with it. The splitting of the county their county has been chosen. Is it because it is is unfair and undemocratic. It is a body blow to the smallest county or because its population all those who have worked tirelessly for many 669 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 670 years for the regeneration of the county. It is a ence for one candidate but she can also vote for body blow to the pride of the county. County col- a number of candidates in her order of prefer- ours, the county jersey and county loyalty mean ence. The system allows a voter to vote against a so much to so many people. My mother, who will candidate and offers him or her a real choice. not thank me for saying this, was born in County However, this is only half of the equation. The Leitrim and lived in County Sligo for the past 50 other half concerns the number of seats in a con- years. Whenever Leitrim is playing Gaelic foot- stituency. When the constituencies were being ball, regardless of whether it is playing against drawn up in Northern Ireland for the Assembly Sligo, she still supports the county in which she elections, they were all assigned six seats. This is was born. She takes pride in the gold and green because a six-seat constituency, using the PR of County Leitrim. system, results in the most accurate and pro- Those of us who were lucky enough to live in portional representation. It produces the fairest County Leitrim when its team reached the All- result, the result that best reflects the wishes of Ireland semi-final against Dublin noted the great the people. If we as politicians and democrats are sense of pride in the county. In population terms, really serious about the wishes of the people and it was a case of the smallest county in Ireland if we respect them, we should try to ensure that playing the largest. It was great to be living in the our electoral system truly reflects their wishes. county during those summer days. While I admit If a six-seat constituency in a PR system is best that the same enthusiasm might not be generated in Northern Ireland, why is it not best for those over politics, I realise that each county wants one of us who live south of the Border? Are we not of its own in the Da´il. This Bill makes it likely, as deserving of the very best rep- perhaps even very likely, that County Leitrim will 2 o’clock resentation? Why are we moving in find itself with no public representative in Da´il the opposite direction by increasing E´ ireann. the number of three-seat constituencies and There are those who might say the population decreasing the number of five-seat constituenc- of County Leitrim is just not large enough and ies? Why do we have no six-seat constituencies, that the major increase in population is in the east given that the Irish Government had a major of the country. The latter is true and the increase influence in ensuring the formation of six-seat is mainly driven by the fact that we do not have constituencies in Northern Ireland? the balanced regional development of which I Deputy Finian McGrath described this Bill as spoke. However, this is an argument for another flawed and undemocratic and said it showed a day. The population shift is such that we must lack of respect for citizens. I fully agree with him. consider constituency boundaries and make Deputy Haughey criticised Deputy Finian changes. However, counties should not be made McGrath and said we must ensure there is no to suffer. imbalance in the degree of voter influence. That is right but there should be no imbalance in the Deputy Johnny Brady spoke about Members degree of influence held by the large parties. The having difficulty holding their seats. I understand system we operate guarantees that imbalance. and sympathise with this view. What is really The increase in the number of three-seat constitu- important is that voters and counties such as encies will ensure an even greater imbalance County Leitrim do not suffer. There are solutions which will favour the large parties. That is why I to this problem, which solutions will ensure that agree with Deputy Finian McGrath that the Bill County Leitrim and other such counties are not does not respect the wishes of the citizens. split in two for electoral purposes. In 1923 there were seven seats in the constitu- Dr. Cowley: Hear, hear. ency containing County Leitrim. This continued until 1933. The county belonged to a constituency Ms Harkin: Furthermore, this Bill favours the with five seats between 1948 and 1961. Therefore, large parties. How can we say this system is more there are solutions. The soft option, the easy democratic and equitable than the previous one? option, is to split the county. I call on the Govern- How can we expect voters to respect us as poli- ment to refer the proposal back to the electoral ticians when our system disproportionately fav- commission so it can allow for six-seat constitu- ours the large parties, Fianna Fa´il and Fine Gael? encies, thereby avoiding the totally unnecessary Despite all their fine words on this Bill and the and absolutely discriminatory splitting of County concerns of some about the splitting of the Leitrim. Leitrim constituency, many Deputies will vote for this Bill. In doing so they will ensure that the Dr. Cowley: Hear, hear. large parties gain and increase their number of seats relative to their percentage of the vote. Ms Harkin: Another issue of crucial import- This Bill creates a win-win situation for the ance to everybody is that of fair and proportional large parties but for the electorate, the small par- representation in Da´il E´ ireann for each citizen in ties, and Independent candidates, it is a lose-lose each constituency. Our electoral system is based situation. One Government Deputy after another on PR. It is designed to give the most accurate has told us the constituency boundary com- representation of the wishes of the electorate, mission is independent and the Bill is the fairest such that not only can a voter express her prefer- possible outcome, while they know that is not the 671 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 672

[Ms Harkin.] arising from the Bill. Other matters can be dis- case. They can smile in the knowledge that if this cussed in more detail on Committee Stage. Bill is passed, the large parties will gain. Some Deputies suggested alternatives to the The facts and figures speak for themselves. In schemes of constituencies proposed by the com- all general elections between 1987 and 2002, mission and set out in the Bill. I cannot foresee Fianna Fa´il and Fine Gael, the two largest parties circumstances in which we will accept amend- with 74% of the vote, won 81% of the seats in ments that will alter the scheme of constituencies three-seat constituencies. Small parties and Inde- recommended by the commission. I accept that pendent candidates with almost 34% of the vote the proposals made, particularly by the latter gained 25% of the seats in three-seat constituenc- speakers, were intended to serve the general ies. In other words, the two largest parties got 7% interest rather than self-interest. It is important more seats than votes in three-seat constituencies that we maintain the tradition of implementing and Independent candidates and small parties got the recommendations of the constituency bound- 9% fewer seats than votes. Fianna Fa´il and Fine ary commission in full. We cannot adopt an a`la Gael hold 81% of the seats in three-seat constitu- carte attitude to an independent commission as encies while in five-seat constituencies they hold the last two speakers have suggested and reject 73% of the seats. Small parties and Independent the commission’s work because we do not like candidates hold 19% of seats in three-seat con- what it says. stituencies while in five-seat constituencies they Since the report of the first commission in 1977 hold 27% of the seats. These figures reflect the the Oireachtas has never changed the com- results of all general elections since 1987 and mission’s recommendations presented in the form show without any doubt that three-seat constitu- of a Bill. To reject some of the commission’s encies favour the large parties and discriminate recommendations now would be to revert to the against small parties and Independent candidates. partisan position of the past when constituency Since 1980 the recommendations from the con- revisions were perceived as being framed to stituency commission have increased the number secure political advantage for the Government of the day. Even minor changes to the commission’s of three-seat constituencies by five and decreased recommendations would represent the first step the number of five-seat constituencies by three. back to the unsatisfactory situation which applied Since 1980 the number of three-seat constituenc- in the past. I cannot accept the special pleading ies has increased by almost 40% and the number of several speakers, including the last two. The of five-seat constituencies has decreased by 20%. Government will not tear up the commission’s That is a substantial shift which has happened work simply because it does not suit. almost by stealth, yet it profoundly affects the The Bill contains a scheme of constituencies outcome of elections. It distorts the system so which is the product of an agreed process, that members of the large parties gain every time operated in accordance with the specific rules set a new three-seat constituency is created, and by distinguished personnel whose integrity and every time a five-seat constituency is changed to independence are beyond question. Deputy either a three or a four-seat constituency. Cowley directly questioned the integrity of the The voters in those constituencies do not have commission. He should perhaps take some time the same choice or proportionality as voters in to examine the record of the House and review five-seat constituencies. It is all very well for his quite disgraceful proposition that the com- Deputies to say this Bill reflects the changing mission has operated in a politically partisan way. demographics of our society. It does, but the Bill Unfortunately, Deputy Harkin took up Deputy must also ensure that our system is fair and that Cowley’s rant. It is outrageous that two speakers each voter has an equal opportunity to elect the in this House should traduce in that way an inde- candidates of his or her choice. That is not the pendent commission made up of recognised indi- case. This disenfranchises certain voters. The viduals who have served this House and the State icing on the cake for the large parties is that it well. It is a disgrace. favours their candidates. Why should they complain? Ms Harkin: It is quite outrageous that the Mini- The terms of reference of the constituency ster would misrepresent what I said. boundary commission should be changed for two reasons: to ensure the fairness and pro- Dr. Cowley: Absolutely. portionality of this system and to maintain the integrity of county boundaries to ensure that Ms Harkin: I said their terms of reference counties such as Leitrim have a representative in should be changed. the Da´il. Dr. Cowley: That is a gross misrepresentation Minister for the Environment, Heritage and by the Minister. Local Government (Mr. Roche): I thank Deputies from all sides of the House for their Mr. Roche: I listened to the rants by the last contributions to this debate. They have raised two Deputies and they both traduced good many issues across the political horizon but, as people. I did not interrupt them and I would be my time is limited, I will focus on some points grateful—— 673 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 674

Ms Harkin: If the Minister wants to hear a rant, Acting Chairman: The Minister should speak he should listen to himself. He has no right to through the Chair. misrepresent what I said. Mr. Roche: He used the words “political gerry- Mr. Roche: ——if they assigned me the same mandering” to describe the work of the com- courtesy. They shredded the personalities of good mission. That is a disgraceful slur on an identifi- people and it was a disgraceful performance. able group of individuals who served this House and this country. He should withdraw those Ms Harkin: I did not misrepresent the Minister remarks. or anyone else. I will not allow him to do it to me. Dr. Cowley: I am not reprimanding the com- Mr. Roche: The Bill contains rules that were mission itself. put before us by distinguished personnel whose Mr. Roche: I can see that the commission had independence and integrity are beyond question. no option but to recommend some changes in the It is a scandal to suggest otherwise. I welcome the Sligo-Leitrim constituency, as the −11.01% vari- acknowledgement of the integrity of the com- ance below the national average representation mission, which was evident in the contributions of of its 2002 population to seats ratio is more than Deputies O’Dowd, Gilmore, Curran, Cuffe and 3% greater than the largest variance recom- many others. I consider suggestions to the con- mended by the commission in the history of the trary to be totally unacceptable. State. In other words, this is because of the politi- cal and demographic realities to which Deputy Dr. Cowley: The Minister is afraid of the Inde- Harkin referred. It was suggested that a solution pendents. to the problem there might be to increase the total number of seats to 168. This would have Mr. Roche: Deputy Cowley’s claim that the reduced the constituency’s variance from its four commission was involved in political gerry- seats to -9.94%, so that it would still have been mandering — he used those words — is a dis- necessary for the Commission to operate as it did. grace. It is offensive and he should withdraw that Such a measure would also have changed the slur on the character of good people. I am sur- variance for the other 41 existing constituencies, prised that Deputy Harkin found anything to sup- resulting in quite unacceptable variances across port in Deputy Cowley’s statement. I recognise some constituencies. We have to look at the her as a politician who likes to deal with issues impact of that reality. rather than personalities. The commission brought forward its proposed solution for reasons already given. It is not pro- Ms Harkin: The Minister can forget about try- posed to depart from the package of recommend- ing to divide and conquer. It will not work on this ations that emerged from its deliberations. It side of the House. would be wrong for us to revert to the situation where if we do not like what the commission has Mr. Roche: Deputy Cowley accused the recommended, we do not accept it. We cannot members of the commission, who do not have a adopt an a` la carte approach and have any hope voice in this House, of political gerrymandering. that people will take us seriously as politicians. I have a responsibility to protect those people and We set up an independent commission and we I will do so. gave it a task. Since it was established, the com- Having said all that, I do not see that it is our mission served us well and its reports have always role, on this side of the House, to defend the been accepted by Members on all sides of the recommendations of the commission without House, whether or not they were palatable. The equivocation. Naturally, Deputies will have feel- commission has brought forward a solution and ings about different constituencies and that is to its recommendations on Leitrim are in line with be accepted. Almost every Deputy that contrib- constitutional requirements, particularly those uted to the debate mentioned the situation in relating to equality of representation. We have County Leitrim. I am aware of the feeling gener- had constitutional cases on this issue. These cases ated in the county by that issue. I am aware of make it very clear that there is an overriding the implications of this for my colleague, responsibility to look at the equality of voters in Deputy Ellis. Dublin, Leitrim, Donegal or wherever. Deputy Harkin made much of the statistical Dr. Cowley: The Minister should do something attractiveness of six seaters. The best way of get- about it. ting absolute representation would be to get a sin- gle constituency for the entire country. That was Mr. Roche: Unlike Deputy Cowley, Deputy tried elsewhere and it had nothing to recommend Ellis did not come into the House and traduce it. Deputy Gilmore claimed that Dublin county the character of members of the commission. boundaries do not have the same status as other county boundaries in the commission’s statutory Dr. Cowley: We are not casting any aspersions terms of reference. He is correct, as the new con- on the commission. stituency boundaries are not dealt with in the same way as the traditional county boundaries. Mr. Roche: You certainly did. You got your The Deputy wants the commission’s terms of ref- opportunity and you used the words—— erence to require it to avoid breaching Dublin 675 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 676

[Mr. Roche.] Dr. Cowley: The Minister wants more of them. county boundaries in formulating Da´il constitu- encies. The boundaries of the 32 counties of Mr. Roche: Our Constitution clearly Ireland have been a historic reality since 1604, envisages—— when the last county boundary was formed. In the past 200 years, the counties have been a well Mr. F. McGrath: How come all the three seat- established focus for community activity and I ers are north of the River Liffey? accept the point that was made about local loyalt- ies. On the other hand, the administrative coun- Mr. Roche: ——that three-seat constituencies ties of Fingal, South Dublin and Du´ n Laoghaire comply with the principle of proportional rep- have been existence for just ten years. While they resentation. Subsection 5 of Article 16.2 provides are forging ahead in serving their communities, that members shall be elected in the system of they do not yet have the distinct identity of the proportional representation by means of the sin- longer established counties. As the individual gle transferable vote. This is followed by the pro- identities of these new counties develop over vision that no law shall be enacted whereby the time, we could possibly revisit the issue but we members to be returned in a constituency shall cannot adjust the commission’s terms of refer- be less than three. Therefore, Bunreacht na ence for the moment. hE´ ireann clearly envisages three-seat constitu- Deputy Finian McGrath referred to the con- encies. While I accept that proportionality of pro- stituency of Dublin North. Of the 42 existing con- portional representation-single transferable vote stituencies, only three lost population between in individual constituencies falls as the number of 1996 and 2002. These were Dublin North-East, seats is reduced, it should be borne in mind that Dublin North-West and the Deputy’s constitu- the number of three-seats proposed in the report, ency of Dublin North-Central. Taking these three 18, has been exceeded—— adjoining constituencies together, the variance from the national average representation of their Mr. F. McGrath: South siders have five seats. ten seats is equal to -9.41%. This requires signifi- cant changes to be made in existing constituency Mr. Roche: ——in four constituency revisions formation. Removing a seat from the area would in the past. I shall restate that because there has have given an acceptable variation of 0.65% of been an attempt to filibuster me and shout me the remaining nine seats. As Dublin North-East down. On four separate occasions in the past and Dublin-North West are already three seaters, there have been more three-seaters than under neither could shed a seat, so any reduction had to this report. I am sorry, it is virtually impossible to come from the four seat constituency in Dublin hear myself. North-Central. That does not suit some people, but that is the reality. Acting Chairman (Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin): May we have ciu´ nas in the Visitors Gallery, please? Mr. F. McGrath: That is a disgrace. Mr. Roche: The PR-STV system has never Mr. Roche: It is not a disgrace. claimed to achieve perfectly proportional results. Several proportional representation systems are Mr. F. McGrath: It is undemocratic. more proportional, others much less so. For PR- STV to be perfectly proportional, the State would Mr. Roche: It is a statistical reality. Just need to form a single constituency. Everybody because it does not suit the Deputy does not recognises that this is not a practical suggestion. make it undemocratic. The Deputy is being Constituency size in Ireland has been restricted undemocratic. to three, four and five seats since 1947. It would be too rigid to restrict the commission to one or Mr. F. McGrath: He ripped off 10,000 voters. two constituency sizes. We need some choice of constituency sizes to produce electoral areas that Mr. Roche: Seats follow population trends and make sense to the people, such as, for example, that is a requirement of our Constitution. Voters enclosing entire communities or adhering to pre- in all parts of the country should be treated vious physical features. It is better to leave it to equally. The commission dealt with the only con- the commission to decide on the numbers of the stituencies in the country to lose population by different seat constituencies and where they recommending the removal of a seat from one should be located. and a boundary adjustment with the other two to make all three viable. Action had to be taken and Mr. F. McGrath: Who gave the commission its that is what the commission recommended. terms of reference? It was the Minister for Trans- Many Deputies mentioned the increase in the port, Deputy Cullen, the \60 million man. number of three-seaters. It has been argued that the creation of two additional three-seaters runs Mr. Roche: I will make the point again. Simply counter to the principle of proportional represen- because this does not suit one single Deputy, the tation. I do not accept that. Three-seaters have practice that has been accepted for years should been around for a long time. not be stood on its head. 677 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: 12 May 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 678

Mr. Morgan: We are talking about citizens. his points and will come back to what he said but I do not share the views he put forward. The Mr. Roche: I am delighted the Deputy is now Standards in Public Office Commission, the body interested in the people because when they charged by the Oireachtas with administering and referred to the peace process in the referendum implementing the regulations, has brought to a few years ago, the Deputy was not exactly lining attention an anomaly which is being corrected. up to go ahead with them. I stress again the Government’s view that the constituency commission’s recommendations are Mr. Morgan: The Minister is wide of the mark a package. They must be accepted or rejected in and is obviously desperate. He is really clutching their entirety. If we are to be serious about poli- at straws. We have him on the ropes. That is tics, we cannot adopt an a` la carte approach. The nonsense. Government has decided, as previous Govern- ments have decided, to follow the established Mr. Roche: Deputies raised issues surrounding practice of implementing in full the recommend- section 6 ations of an independent commission. I thank Deputies for their contributions and look forward Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister should remem- to further debate on Committee Stage. ber Kildare North. Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister should resign. Mr. Roche: Deputy O’Dowd referred to the position of MEPs elected in June. I have noted Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 63; Nı´l, 14.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Lenihan, Brian. Allen, Bernard. McEllistrim, Thomas. Andrews, Barry. McGinley, Dinny. Ardagh, Sea´n. McGrath, Paul. Brady, Johnny. McGuinness, John. Brady, Martin. Mitchell, Olivia. Broughan, Thomas P. Moloney, John. Callanan, Joe. Moynihan, Michael. Carey, Pat. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Carty, John. Mulcahy, Michael. Costello, Joe. Murphy, Gerard. Crawford, Seymour. Noonan, Michael. Cullen, Martin. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Curran, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Deasy, John. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dempsey, Tony. O’Malley, Fiona. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Tim. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Shea, Brian. Ellis, John. O’Sullivan, Jan. English, Damien. Pattison, Seamus. Enright, Olwyn. Penrose, Willie. Fleming, Sea´n. Rabbitte, Pat. Fox, Mildred. Roche, Dick. Gilmore, Eamon. Ryan, Sea´n. Haughey, Sea´n. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Smith, Brendan. Hogan, Phil. Treacy, Noel. Howlin, Brendan. Twomey, Liam. Kehoe, Paul. Upton, Mary. Killeen, Tony. Woods, Michael. Kitt, Tom.

Nı´l

Boyle, Dan. Harkin, Marian. Connolly, Paudge. Higgins, Joe. Cowley, Jerry. McGrath, Finian. Crowe, Sea´n. Morgan, Arthur. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Ferris, Martin. Ryan, Eamon. Gregory, Tony. Sargent, Trevor.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Tony Dempsey; Nı´l, Deputies Aengus O´ Snodaigh and Finian McGrath. 679 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 680

Question declared carried. That the Bill be referred to the Select Com- mittee on the Environment and Local Govern- ment, in accordance with Standing Order Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005: Referral to 120(1) and paragraph 1(a)(i) of the Orders of Select Committee. Reference of that committee. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): I move: Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 62; Nı´l, 13.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Kehoe, Paul. Andrews, Barry. Killeen, Tony. Ardagh, Sea´n. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Martin. McEllistrim, Thomas. Broughan, Thomas P. McGinley, Dinny. Callanan, Joe. McGrath, Paul. Carey, Pat. Mitchell, Olivia. Carty, John. Moloney, John. Cassidy, Donie. Moynihan, Michael. Connaughton, Paul. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Costello, Joe. Mulcahy, Michael. Crawford, Seymour. Murphy, Gerard. Cregan, John. Naughten, Denis. Cullen, Martin. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Curran, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Deasy, John. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dempsey, Tony. O’Malley, Fiona. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Tim. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Shea, Brian. Ellis, John. O’Sullivan, Jan. English, Damien. Pattison, Seamus. Enright, Olwyn. Penrose, Willie. Fleming, Sea´n. Roche, Dick. Fox, Mildred. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Gilmore, Eamon. Smith, Brendan. Haughey, Sea´n. Treacy, Noel. Hoctor, Ma´ire. Twomey, Liam. Hogan, Phil. Upton, Mary. Howlin, Brendan. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Boyle, Dan. Harkin, Marian. Connolly, Paudge. Higgins, Joe. Cowley, Jerry. McGrath, Finian. Crowe, Sea´n. Morgan, Arthur. Cuffe, Ciara´n. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Ferris, Martin. Ryan, Eamon. Gregory, Tony.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Tony Dempsey; Nı´l: Deputies Aengus O´ Snodaigh and Finian McGrath.

Question declared carried. in recent years have shown that not only has the Government been oblivious to what was hap- Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill pening but also in this legislation it is incapable 2004: Second Stage (Resumed). of prescribing some means of resolving the prob- lem. We are approaching a general election, and Question again proposed: “That the Bill be how quickly this will occur only those on the now read a Second Time.” other side of the House can tell us.

Mr. Durkan: I could not find words to describe Mr. Treacy: Two years. the way I felt on the last occasion I spoke. I hope the intervening period has given me sufficient Mr. Durkan: Like most of its proposals, the inspiration to come up with the right words to Government will not divulge the secret until the describe this Bill. Here we have a monument to last minute. We have large numbers of people the Government’s incompetence and ineptitude. waiting for driving tests, some of them up to 14 The numbers on the waiting lists for driving tests and 15 months. This is not a new phenomenon. It 681 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 682 has happened before on several occasions and a log? Since a great many accidents occur at night, sticking plaster or fire brigade action has taken it should be possible to devise a system whereby place on every occasion. On one occasion we had a certain proportion of driving tests could take a write-off of all tests and everybody got a licence place then. After all, 50% of people do a certain regardless of whether they could drive. We now amount of driving takes at night. Those of us who have a temporary measure to introduce emer- work in this House probably find that we drive gency powers, as it were, and semi-privatisation more at night than during the day. with bonuses to encourage driver testers. While I What bugs me most is that this has arisen three do not know how the bonus system will work, I or four times in the last ten years. There are long presume it will encourage the testers to test more lists of people waiting for driving tests, and I quickly or to test more people. However, it is pro- cannot understand why no one has learned from posed to reduce the number of people on the that and decided that it might not be such a bad waiting list for the foreseeable future, in other idea to increase the number of testers in line with words, the next two years. I presume it will ulti- the need that presents itself. The population is mately achieve what was intended in the first rising, and demographic trends should have been place, which is to clear the backlog before the sufficient to establish the need for extra testers so general election. things could progress in a normal way. As far as I can see everything that is being done I am also concerned at the bonus system. If the at present is to clear the decks for the next gen- criterion is set in relation to how a driver is tested, eral election and much clearing remains to be it should not require a bonus to encourage any- done. To address the issue of driver testing we one to carry out the test. I wonder about the have the same Government that produced the semi-privatisation and why, at the end of the “Red Cow” roundabout, the tunnel that only removal of the backlog, we are to revert to the takes small trucks and the electronic voting old system. Does that mean that in two or three machines that will not work and cost a fortune to years there will be another backlog and a require- be stored. These are indicators of what has hap- ment to introduce a similar Bill? pened in the past. I do not see how this proposal Let us return to an issue about which we should will resolve the problems we are faced with. be concerned. We have a high rate of traffic acci- Given the numbers of people seeking driving dents, and I fully understand that it is impossible tests at present, it was not today or yesterday it to eliminate them all. Accidents will happen, and became obvious that we needed to address this we should try to eliminate the circumstances in area. It has been obvious for some years. It would which they take place as much as possible. In have been simple to introduce additional testers many situations, they are a result of bad driving, at the time. As it happens, the number of inexperience, an inability to judge the road con- additional testers will not make a ha’p’orth of dif- ditions and relate that to speed and so on. The list ference in terms of significantly increasing output. goes on, and for some unknown reason, between The economy depends on the ability of people to midnight and 6 a.m. we experience a high number get to work. Looking at the traffic jams on the of tragic accidents, many of them fatal. Research roads I wonder how the unfortunate commuters must be conducted to identify the causes, which restrain themselves and do not take the law into clearly include bad driving and bad and unsafe their own hands, although I do not suggest they roads. should do so. In a growing economy like ours, How many times have we had the experience one would have expected it would have been that one comes to a bend or curve in the road possible to apply for a driving test and be called and finds, as one tries to navigate it, that the road within a few weeks. This can be done in most surface is rough or that one has to move from one other countries and I do not know why we are so side to the other to avoid potholes? Perhaps one special here that we cannot do so. Many of the sees a sign stating that one is at an accident black- problems stem from the practices that have spot. As I have said before on similar matters, become established over the years. For instance that means nothing more than that several acci- the number of tests carried out per day could be dents have taken place, many of them fatal. In increased. I do not see why people should have such circumstances, one hardly needs to be a to stop testing at 3 o’clock or 4 o’clock, when rocket scientist to work out that one can do two there is still a fair part of the day left. Even if it things. One can identify whether in every case the means introducing shifts of testers, that should be fault was that of the driver. I am not so sure that, possible. There is nothing extraordinary about it, if one has 20 or 30 accidents in one location, and one need not be a rocket scientist. I cannot driver error is always to blame. There are other see why testers should not operate at night. After factors to examine and eliminate as far as poss- all, a fair proportion of driving takes place then. ible. We must examine driver qualifications, and There are serious doubts regarding whether, in ultimately also those of the testers, and the extent some circumstances, people who have been tested to which the road or road surface contributes to and passed have enough experience of road use. accidents, given the need to reduce road traffic What experience have those who were passed accidents and especially fatalities as much as arbitrarily, with no test, because of a past back- possible. 683 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 684

[Mr. Durkan.] all of the legislation he or she has passed, even I wonder whether, under this proposed system where such legislation provides for the devolution and regarding the need to encourage increased of powers to an external authority or body, which output, the test will not be as rigorous as pre- has increasingly been the practice in recent years. viously. Will it be universally applicable, with the We should all do what we can to improve the same standards and requirements applying across standard of driving on our roads. I welcome the the country? If there are 1,000 people on one fact that special emphasis has been placed during waiting list and 500 on another, will that auto- this debate on safe driving. Although all new dri- matically mean that, given the Bill’s thrust, where vers must now sit a preliminary theory test before the longer waiting list presents itself, the testers receiving their first provisional licence, there is will be less rigorous? I would like that answered still insufficient emphasis on this aspect of driver by the Minister. I have a funny feeling that tend- proficiency. When I was involved in the insurance ency will be there, given the pressure to reduce industry many years ago, I went to a good deal of the waiting list. People must be getting very trouble to identify how drivers could be better accustomed to waiting. We now have waiting lists instructed off the road in simulated situations. to enter schools, for housing, as my colleague will There should be much greater emphasis on this readily verify, for hospital treatment and for type of instruction. driver testing. We have virtually become the New drivers can glean many useful tips from home of such lists, a rather undesirable accolade. more experienced motorists. I once saw a prog- There are waiting lists everywhere. We will have ramme on British television which illustrated the waiting lists to enter a tunnel that cannot accom- danger signs for which motorists modate its intended traffic, and on the M50, for 3 o’clock should be alert. These included the traffic that cannot get up or down it on a parked cars on either side of the road Friday afternoon or any other day. Deputies or the appearance of a football in the vehicle’s should see it for themselves. We are in the era path, for example. Some of these danger signals of waiting. have been used in Irish televisions advertise- Perhaps the Minister might clarify in his reply ments. Less experienced drivers may not be as whether there will be universal application of the alert to these warnings as someone who has been standard required of a driver. Will each area get driving for longer. Although the speed limit in the same treatment, or will there be attempts to most built-up residential areas is generally 30 speed matters up in certain areas to achieve the km/h, experienced drivers find it is not usually possible to attain that speed because they must target before the next general election, an always be alert to the danger of a child or pet important date? My colleague, Deputy Carey, running into the path of their vehicle. like everyone else in the Houses is very con- When instruction is given to learner motorists, cerned about what might happen between now greater emphasis should be placed on the ability and the next general election. to read the conditions of the road and to react There is nothing new in the board of the auth- quickly in particular circumstances. We must pro- ority. We live in the age of such authorities, which vide better certification of the ability of new driv- are not accountable to this House and for which ers by ensuring we have a universally acceptable Ministers will not be accountable to it. Every day and sufficiently rigorous testing system that is that passes I receive replies stating that the Mini- based on the necessity that the newly certified ster has no responsibility to the House on various driver has plenty of experience on and off the issues. I have no doubt that we will be hearing road. This is the situation for pilots who must that in future. I do not accept that general rule, train on the ground in a simulator for a long about which I have always protested. The Mini- period before they are allowed into the air. This ster should be answerable to the House for every aspect of training should be utilised to a far issue which arises under his or her Department greater extent in the area of road safety and and which is paid for under the Department’s driver testing. Vote. There is no other arena in which he might be made responsible or the public might get Mr. Carey: I welcome the Bill, the purpose of answers to questions. There is nowhere else for which is to establish the driver testing and stan- members of the Opposition to go to get an dards authority that will be responsible for the answer to a simple question other than tabling a driver testing service. However, although this will question to the relevant Minister. Unfortunately, be the primary function of the authority, its over- recently we have moved ever further from that. all aims will not stop there. The role of driver The theory is that it is good for government, but testing in ensuring drivers reach an acceptable it is bad for it. It allows a siege mentality to level of competence is important in the overall develop that prevents the Government from ask- context of road safety. In carrying out these func- ing itself questions, something that it should do. tions, therefore, the authority will have a general Regardless of which parties are in power, it is duty to promote the development and improve- never in the interests of a Government to be ment of driving standards. In this way, the auth- economical with the degree to which a Minister ority will have a significant role in encouraging is responsible to the House in respect of any or better driving rather than simply testing driver 685 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 686 competence and in encouraging greater road today’s newspapers — we will have achieved safety rather than simply reducing the test back- something significant. If we convince drivers that log. This is a fundamental development and one better training from the beginning will benefit which requires serious consideration. them directly and indirectly, we will see improved We all agree road safety is a subject that must driving standards. be tackled on a number of different fronts and That the authority will be responsible for the with the co-operation of a number of different registration of driving instructors will add to the agencies. We as policy-makers face many differ- improvement of driving practices. Driving ent challenges. These include the need to encour- instructors are not currently regulated and it will age better behaviour by motorists and other road be a matter for the authority to determine how users. We must ensure road users accept traffic best to fulfil its obligations in this area. The end rules and are aware those rules will be enforced. result will be a register of skilled driving instruc- We must instill in them an appreciation of a tors who have passed appropriate tests of their shared duty to ensure the safety of others. competence to instruct and are endorsed by the The main challenge for the Government is to authority for that purpose. This is an issue that achieve the right balance between good legis- has been ventilated for a long period. Deputy lation, enforcement, education and public aware- Finian McGrath may recall it was raised at a ness measures. It has attempted to strike that teacher conference some years ago in the context balance and, in doing so, has initiated significant of a discussion of the role of teachers in driver road safety policies, many of which have been education. I welcome the fact that the Minister outlined by previous speakers. They include the has devised provisions for the establishment of a initial roll-out of the penalty points scheme, the register of qualified instructors. Every other area dedicated Garda traffic corps and the emphasis of people instruction requires that practitioners on driver education, behaviour and awareness, have suitable qualifications and are appropri- among many others. ately registered. The marked reduction in road deaths in 2003 Fro these reasons, I am confident the decision indicated some success in this area. However, the to establish the driver testing and standards auth- unwelcome increase in road fatalities during 2004 ority represents another building block in our only served to highlight that more must be done fight to reduce road fatalities. I also welcome the if we are to tackle the problem effectively. It gives progressive elements of the legislation. For me no satisfaction to say the problem is getting example, the Bill gives the board and staff of the worse. Like Deputy Durkan, I too commend the authority the scope to be innovative in carrying Garda Sı´ocha´na on the enforcement measures it out their functions. It allows for the authority to has put in train. The Government continues to move beyond the basic task of testing and allows work in this area. The road safety strategy for it to be more inventive in its approach to the 2004-06 specifically targets continued reduction in development of better driving standards. While road accidents and road deaths. Measures will the board of the authority will ultimately decide focus on the areas of education, enforcement and the best approach to take, I suggest steps be engineering that will target the key areas of taken towards closer liaison with the education speeding, driving while intoxicated, seat belt sector, possibly to establish classes on driving the- wearing and vulnerable road users. We could ory in post-primary schools. This already happens spend all afternoon teasing out the implications in some schools. One of our famous rally drivers of the enforcement of all these aspects of the runs such a programme for transition year strategy. students. The uptake is very high and the success Driver competence and formation is another rate is quite impressive. important aspect of the Government’s road safety To establish a programme which would ensure strategy. This emphasis derives from research young drivers reach a higher standard of basic which shows that poor driving skills and even knowledge prior to receiving even their pro- poorer driver behaviour have a significant impact visional driving licence would be a significant on the number of road casualties. Driving is an development and one worth considering. A acquired skill and a particularly demanding one particularly important objective of this legislation on Ireland’s busy roads. There is clear evidence is to bring an end to excessive and unacceptable to suggest the manner in which many new drivers waiting times. We cannot ignore the fact there is are taught is unsatisfactory and that too many dri- a significant waiting list for driving tests through- vers take the test ill-prepared. out the country. Although improvements have For many, the training has tended to be about certainly been made, the demand for driving tests the minimum required to pass the driving test continues at a high level. I welcome the initiative rather than reaching an acceptable level of prac- announced earlier this week where there will be tice, competence and confidence. If we can con- a drive to ensure measures are taken to shorten vince motorists there is a direct relationship the waiting lists by being innovative in the way between driver competence and road safety and driver testing can be done. As I am sure other between driver competence and lower insurance speakers have said, it is very important we main- — there is evidence of the latter connection in tain standards. Even if we privatise a service, we 687 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 688

[Mr. Carey.] every evening, I notice motorcyclists overtaking should not allow the current high standards to cars travelling at a slow speed on the route I take slip. We might complain about the long waiting to work. Invariably, they are on the wrong side list and the hassle involved in taking a driving test of the white line or they travel on the hard but standards are high and what happens after- shoulder on one’s blind side. A concerted effort wards is another issue which certainly merits must be made to improve the behaviour of examination. motorcyclists. They are good at wearing helmets, The establishment of the driver testing and at other things and at driving high-powered bikes standards authority means the necessary flexi- but weaving in and out of traffic and crossing bility will be in place to respond to variations in over continuous white lines is dangerous. I urge demand and to manage numbers throughout the the traffic corps of the Garda to pay as much country. Although I do not believe provisional attention to that aspect of driving as is possible. licence holders are, in general, unsafe on our There is an aspect of the proposals about which roads, we need to reduce their number. The pro- I have a concern. All politics are local. Although portion of drivers currently relying on a pro- I would like to be contradicted and told I am visional licence is 17% of all current licence hold- wrong, I understand there are proposals to con- ers and not the 380,000 which many of us centrate the testing of truck drivers in one part- believed, although the percentage is too high. We icular test centre, the Finglas test centre on Jam- are determined to reduce this proportion signifi- estown Road. Notwithstanding that this centre is cantly and the establishment of the authority located in my constituency in which we do not should ensure we can offer driving tests more want to see increased levels of heavy vehicles, I quickly than at present and thereby reduce the have a number of reservations about the idea. It number of provisional driving licences. would represent a backward step in driver testing. As the waiting times for a driving test become Rather than testing the level of competence a more manageable, the Minister has plans to bring driver has with a heavy vehicle, we would be test- forward appropriate amendments to the driver ing his or her ability to memorise a particular licensing regulations to discourage long-term route and to be aware of particular junctions and reliance on provisional licences, which I welcome. familiar only with the traffic constrictions in one After all, a provisional licence is not a driving area. To pass this test would only involve commit- licence and it should only allow a person to drive ting this route to memory and would not necess- for the purpose of learning to drive. I have often arily illustrate competence in driving large or thought we could usefully look at the measures in more dangerous vehicles. I am sure I am not Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom alone in this House in having those reservations. whereby one has an “R” on one’s front windscreen and rear window for a year after one I do not know whether it is because of a feeling sits the driving test to indicate that one is still this might happen in our area but there has been somewhat of a learner. One is always learning but a huge increase in the number of driving schools sometimes when the test has been completed suc- running courses for truck drivers in the Finglas cessfully and the “L” sign comes down, the speed area clogging up roads and parking on and dam- is ramped up and standards are forgotten about aging footpaths. It is a matter which must be a bit too readily. reviewed. It is worth noting that in the driver licensing Mr. F. McGrath: A good teacher is always area, the day to day operation of the licensing learning. system, including the provision of blank licences and forms to licensing authorities, would transfer Mr. Carey: I know but some teachers do not. to the authority. Of course, policy making in Any improvements to the overall delivery and these areas and the making of driver licensing standard of the driving test introduced by this regulations will remain with the Department of authority will also have significant benefits. There Transport, which I welcome. After all, the licens- have been a number of improvements to the driv- ing system not only controls drivers, but is also ing test in recent years, most notably the intro- the system which records penalty points and dis- duction of the driver theory test as well as a qualifications incurred by drivers for road traffic detailed report sheet which shows the test candi- offences. I also approve of the continuing interac- date where his or her driving skills are weak. The tion between the specialised transport staff in the facility to apply on-line for the test was also intro- Department and the local licensing authorities. It duced and has been well received. However, if is worth noting that in the area of penalty points, we are to keep up with improving international the record will be endorsed electronically through standards, the Irish system will benefit from a card system between the Courts Service, the focused changes which I am confident this auth- Garda Sı´ocha´na and the vehicle registration unit. ority will implement as they arise. Currently, queries about the application of pen- I understand some changes are to be brought alty points are dealt with by the Department of about in the area of testing motorcycle drivers, Transport but this function will now pass to the which I welcome. Every morning and almost new authority. 689 Driver Testing and Standards Authority 12 May 2005. Bill 2004: Second Stage (Resumed) 690

Given proposals before the European Parlia- measures are only as good as the manner in which ment for consideration which aim to enhance they are applied. In other words, there is no point security features on licences and which will in having a law unless it can be applied or require greater involvement at central level, the implemented by the Garda when required. On new authority will be the ideal body to facilitate that point, the Government must continue to such an arrangement because of the close connec- deliver on the enforcement element of its tion between driver testing and driver licensing. If strategy. Garda visibility is of the utmost import- there is to be co-operation in this area, I wonder ance and I look forward to the full implemen- whether this facility might also play a greater role tation of that policy. in combatting or at least in seeking justice for I welcome the introduction of the Garda traffic offences carried out on our roads by drivers corps. The Garda’s visibility is certainly improv- licensed in other countries. My main experience ing and the fact that it now has high visibility of this is the speeding which occurs on the N2, colouring on its motorcycles and four by fours is often by vehicles registered in Northern Ireland. important. I have noticed a commendable I am aware a similar authority has been estab- increase in the number of spot checks on speed- lished in the UK and it would beneficial if we ing. For example, on the N2 over the recent bank could co-operate with it to bring these offenders holiday, I saw more than one driver fall into the to justice. trap of driving carefully past a hand-held camera I have a serious concern about truck drivers, only to encounter, having accelerated, a fixed especially from Northern Ireland and the UK but camera 500 m further on. It was nice to see the also mainland Europe who do not understand the camera flashing every time someone drove by implications of driving on the other side of the above the speed limit. Perhaps this might give the road. The same might apply to Irish truck drivers lie to those who feel not only that the camera lies driving in mainland Europe. It would be useful from time to time but that it does not take if there was an awareness campaign by the road pictures. haulage associations or the relevant European A number of issues bother me personally. bodies governing the licensing of the road haul- Some time ago, I raised one by way of a age industry to highlight the need for better parliamentary question, namely, the advertising driver behaviour. Last Saturday evening I saw, I and sale of scanners. I know of one retail location think, a Netherlands registered articulated truck where they are readily available, with a sandwich negotiate one of the roundabouts on the M50. It board on the footpath. One can acquire a scanner all but sandwiched a small Fiat Punto against the which purportedly ensures that one can drive safety barrier. Admittedly, that happens over the limit without being detected by the infrequently but once is too often. In some way Garda radar. What measures, if any, can the or other, we should try to ensure all these issues Minister take? Will he invoke legislation to are addressed. ensure that the sale of such devices is illegal? The establishment of a separate public body to If we foster the development and improvement deliver and improve on the driver testing service of driving standards throughout the country, this is an important development. Significantly, it will will strengthen the overall strategy for road enable us to provide a superior and safe driver safety. The proposed driver and standards auth- testing service. I prepared these remarks some ority is a very important element in the process time ago and am unsure whether the initiative of improving road safety in general. I, therefore, announced earlier this week has superseded commend the Minister on this Bill and welcome them. I am not anti-privatisation per se but have it in the House. reservations about farming out important areas of public policy to the private sector, sometimes Dr. Cowley: I am happy to speak on this Bill, without adequate policing controlling powers. I which I welcome. I welcome its thrust, which is to hope that if measures such as these are intro- cut the ridiculously long waiting times that people duced, we ensure they are carefully monitored. must endure to get a basic driving test. This must Many Members hear complaints reasonably regu- be welcomed. It will mean the end of the pro- larly about inconsistencies in the application of visional licence anomaly which prevents appli- the NCT test for car roadworthiness. Sometimes, cants from getting a reasonable and convenient how one fares depends on the centre to which test date. Ultimately the Bill will prevent one goes or on the particular tester at a centre. untrained and untested drivers from driving on The authority to which I referred will have the our roads. One must question how this came necessary flexibility to take an innovative about in the first place. The people responsible approach to the area of driver testing and I look for it bear a great responsibility for our very high forward to seeing what inventive and exciting road accident figures. This problem has gone on ideas it can come up with. I recognise that the for some time and must be rectified. benefits will not be as immediate as those Currently, the average waiting time for a test is resulting from the targeting of the offences of ten months, which is far too long by any stretch speeding, seat belt wearing and drink driving. I of the imagination. I do not see why people must am also mindful that these and any other wait so long and I understand that this Bill seeks 691 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 692

[Dr. Cowley.] transport but there must also be a balance to to rectify the situation. I commend the Minister ensure that road safety standards are maintained. on the introduction of the Bill and for providing a bonus scheme that will award testers for extra Debate adjourned. productivity. This is to be welcomed although one must question why it is necessary. Nevertheless, Message from Select Committee. if this is what is required to get people off the road or to get them tested, I welcome it. The pro- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Oireachtas vision to hire extra staff to carry out 40,000 tests Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence on a once-off basis is more important. This is akin and Women’s Rights has completed its consider- to the situation with the national treatment pur- ation of the Disability Bill 2004 and has made chase fund which is a quick-fix solution to solve amendments thereto. a particular problem. The national treatment pur- chase fund worked, but is still only a short-term, Ceisteanna — Questions. albeit a welcome, solution. I hope this initiative by the Minister will be equally successful in sort- Priority Questions. ing solving the problem in the short term. One must question whether this will happen ———— again and if the extra productivity award system is necessary to ensure it does not. I ask the Mini- Air Services. ster to address the long-term capability of the 1. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Trans- Department to ensure that the existing backlogs port his views on whether, in the event of a partial are dealt with and do not recur. This measure will sale of Aer Lingus, it would be possible to include ease the embarrassing backlog of 124,250 tests a caveat in the sale agreement to ensure the which would have existed by the end of 2006. retention of landing slots at Heathrow Airport by Another point concerns the need for young Dublin passengers; if he is actively considering people on the road to drive safely. Young people such a clause; the action taken to examine this are inclined to drive much faster and to be proposal; and if he will make a statement on the involved in more road accidents and many young matter. [15715/05] lives have been wasted in this way. However, many people have questioned the high cost of car Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I want to insurance in the past. In particular the penalis- see the slots being retained at Heathrow, regard- ation structure affects young people with a pro- less of the ownership structure of the national air- visional licence. I am sure their accident rate is line. I am very aware of the concerns raised about much higher but they have been cornered into specific strategic issues in the context of any pro- paying sky-high prices for car insurance. Young posal to reduce the State’s shareholding in Aer people are forced to fork out between \2,000 and Lingus. These relate not only to the slots at \3,000 simply to get a car on the road. We must Heathrow but to the Aer Lingus brand and direct keep an eye on this. I know that the Ta´naiste has services on the transatlantic routes. launched some initiatives in this regard and this Ireland does not own any Heathrow slots. Aer Lingus holds these slots on the basis of “grand- will help. father rights”, which are rights of historic pre- The numbers of people taking the driving test cedence. Aer Lingus has around 4% of Heathrow surged from 180,000 in 2001 to 234,000 in 2003 as slots — the fourth largest after BA, BMI and a result of the ban on people driving on pro- Lufthansa and operates in the region of 25 round visional licences. The measure had to be wel- trips daily in peak season. Apart from Aer comed but one must question whether it might Lingus, BMI is the only other operator on the have been possible to implement the change in Heathrow-Dublin route and there is no other a more phased manner. It might have prevented operator to Heathrow from Cork or Shannon. It this backlog. should be pointed out that Heathrow services are Fundamentally however, we must question a key element in the Aer Lingus product and a whether the public transport system is capable of key contributor to profits. I have no reason to handling the needs of the thousands of pro- believe this will not be the position into the visional licence holders who will now be obliged future, whatever the ownership status of Aer to use the bus or train, should they be forced to Lingus. leave their cars at home. People, particularly However, as direct services increase to Euro- young people, have great difficulty in getting to pean and other points, the importance of work, especially in rural areas. For instance, I Heathrow for international connectivity is dimin- have come across cases where young people have ishing. Also, the other major European hubs in been completely unable to keep a job because of Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam are continuing an inability to get car insurance. It is important to grow and have good direct connections from that we allow our young people to make use of Ireland with a range of airlines. 693 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 694

EU Regulation 95/93, as amended by Regu- crucial. Any major strategic holding the State lation 793/2004 governs the allocation of slots at would have in Aer Lingus would be very signifi- congested airports such as Heathrow. The current cant in dictating some of the strategic issues. Any regulation allows for the retention of grandfather company would want to maintain the slots. At a slots. It also allows for the exchange of slots but European level, an attempt is being made to is silent on the issue of the sale of slots. However, develop a regulatory framework to deal with this this has not prevented the development of a “grey issue. The Department and I have been closely market” in slots where the practice of exchanging involved in these discussions but they have not slots for cash has developed. resulted in a definitive mechanism for creating a The Commission published a study last year on market for slots at Heathrow. potential mechanisms to develop market-orien- I agree that the other hubs of Paris, Amster- tated slot allocation schemes. A consultation dam and Frankfurt have experienced significant paper later in the year was the follow-up to this growth and they will continue to grow. Aer study. The Commission is now developing its Lingus is beginning to take more advantage of thinking on the potential mechanisms that could these hubs in terms of route selection. Dublin be included in draft legislation. My Department Airport has an opportunity to become a hub of will continue to monitor developments at EU some significance. I believe this because the air- level regarding any proposed changes to the regu- port is well placed in terms of its strategic latory regime for slots. location for long-haul and short-haul flights. If The current EU regulatory regime may change people with views on the general debate on Aer in the future. Accordingly, there is not an Lingus would think outside the box, they would absolute guarantee that access to the current level see a different picture. There is enormous growth of grandfather slots at Heathrow can be main- from Ireland into the United States and Aer tained indefinitely, even if the current ownership Lingus is in a position to take advantage of that. status of Aer Lingus remains the same. Opportunities also exist to expand into eastern However, I assure the House that in the con- markets. text of any decision to reduce State ownership in Aer Lingus, all the options available within the Ms O. Mitchell: Does the Minister agree that regulatory framework will be examined to ensure there is a need for a runway, terminal and a CEO adequate ongoing access to Heathrow for Irish for Aer Lingus before we begin talking about consumers. Dublin Airport becoming a hub? Mr. Cullen: We have had great success with the Ms O. Mitchell: I am inclined to agree with the new CEO of Aer Lingus and I wish him well. Any Minister that there is no reason to believe Aer significant airline would have been delighted to Lingus will lose the Heathrow slots or that the recruit a CEO of his quality. market will not dictate that those slots will remain and be used for the benefit of Irish passengers. It Ms O. Mitchell: It would have been better if is probably true that if the market was to change, Aer Lingus could have kept the previous CEO. there is very little the Government, as a minority owner, could do to ensure that a majority owner Mr. Cullen: Aer Lingus has a business plan and did not sell on the slots. I know that the EU has I urge all sides to implement it. This plan is adjudicated on similar issues. crucial to the airline’s survival in the long term, Does the Minister agree, given that we will regardless of what the future strategic structure have little or no control over slots in the long of Aer Lingus turns out to be. The plan also pro- term, it is extremely important that Aer Lingus is vides the basis for enormous growth by equipped to develop more direct routes, partic- developing many new routes, both short-haul ularly long-haul routes, to lessen its dependence flights within Europe and long-haul flights. on Heathrow as a hub? Does the Minister agree that it is worrying that on the very day a private Airport Development Projects. operator launches new routes from Cork to the United States, Aer Lingus is threatening to with- 2. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Transport draw routes from Dublin to the United States, for when a Cabinet decision will be taken on the example, the routes to Los Angeles and Orlando? long-promised second terminal for Dublin Air- Does he not agree that this is an example of how port; if it is his intention that this facility be pri- Aer Lingus is almost being run into the ground vately owned and operated; if he will identify any through lack of decision-making about its future? other European airport at which there are com- peting terminals; if he will report on the basis on Events are taking place all over the world that which terminals might compete; and the expected are placing Aer Lingus at a disadvantage. timescale for the commencement and completion of this facility. [15768/05] Mr. Cullen: I have set out as openly as I can, in the context of a parliamentary question, the 4. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Trans- facts surrounding Heathrow slots. Both Deputy port if he maintains that it is the mandate of the Mitchell and I agree that Heathrow slots are Dublin Airport Authority to provide terminal 695 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 696

[Ms O. Mitchell.] Ms Shortall: If this is such a wonderful idea in services at Dublin Airport; if his stated aim is to the eyes of the Cabinet, why do other airports not maximise the use of existing airport lands in the do this? On the concept of competing terminals, provision of a second terminal at Dublin Airport, which has not been questioned anywhere in the the reason his Department sought alternative media during this debate in recent months, what expressions of interest to build a second terminal; is the basis on which two terminals would com- and if he will make a statement on the matter. pete given that the critical areas of baggage hand- [15716/05] ling and check-in are in the control of airlines and airport charges, a major issue, are controlled by Mr. Cullen: I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 the aviation regulator? Does the Minister accept and 4 together. that the concept of competing airport terminals is As the Deputies will be aware, I am currently flawed? Why is the Cabinet continuing with this finalising proposals for the provision of additional nonsensical debate? terminal capacity at Dublin Airport for consider- ation by Government very shortly. There are two Mr. Cullen: I have enunciated clearly my point crucial issues guiding the overall consideration of of view that there are no independent competing how terminal capacity will be provided at Dublin terminals. Deputy Shortall is right. The only place Airport. We must ensure the continued overall this was tried was Montreal. operational integrity and strategic development of Dublin Airport to meet the needs of current and Ms Shortall: Toronto. future users of the airport, both airlines and pass- engers. It will be necessary to ensure that Mr. Cullen: Toronto. Airport charges in the additional terminal capacity is provided within a private facility turned out to be four times higher. reasonable time frame to meet the growth in air traffic. Projected growth in passenger traffic drives Ms Shortall: I know, but the Minister is a the timing and scale of the investment required. member of a Government that is suggesting we Under existing legislation, the Dublin Airport should have competing terminals. Authority owns and is responsible for the oper- ation, management and development of Dublin Mr. Cullen: I am giving the Deputy my per- Airport. That is the legislative mandate given to spective as Minister for Transport on the matter, the authority. As policy maker, the State must be which is what she asked me to do. There are no satisfied that any future framework for the pro- examples of competing terminals and I am con- vision of terminal capacity at the airport, covering cerned about how this would work when it does both the development and operation of such not work anywhere else in the world. facilities, ensures the optimum development of Dublin Airport. Ms Shortall: Why are we toying with the idea? Once the Government makes a decision with regard to the provision of capacity, the detailed Ms O. Mitchell: The Minister is not. planning and implementation process will address the issue of the optimum location of the terminal. Mr. Cullen: Where it has been tried, it was an As a general principle, the objective is to use abject failure ultimately resulting in the State available assets as effectively as possible in the buying back the terminal at an exorbitant cost. interests of the efficient operation of Dublin Air- Ms Shortall: We know that but why is the port. As regards the timetable for the project, Cabinet considering it? clearly considerable emphasis will be placed on implementing the project as quickly as possible to Mr. Cullen: Views have been expressed and meet projected passenger growth and the aim is questions have been asked. People are entitled to to have new capacity in place in 2009. The request ask legitimate questions about many issues, with for expressions of interest in August 2002 was a which I have no difficulty. To answer the preliminary canvassing of the market to test the Deputy’s question directly, I spent every day over level of interest in and feasibility of the indepen- recent months dealing with this issue. I am on dent terminal concept. These expressions were solid ground when I say I agree with the Deputy then examined by the Mullarkey panel. The that I cannot find an example of the type she has expressions did not identify working examples of enunciated today anywhere in the world. I have independent competing terminals and the panel stated this publicly. noted this concept had no corollary elsewhere. Ms Shortall: Then it is a flawed concept. Ms Shortall: I asked the Minister two specific questions about the proposed second terminal Mr. Cullen: The type does not exist. but he has not answered either. Can he point to any example of competing terminals in any Euro- Ms Shortall: It does not exist. pean airport? Is there a model we are following? Mr. Cullen: All I can do is make a judgment Mr. Cullen: There is not. call on the basis that, where it was tried, it was an 697 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 698 abject failure with charges being four times The DAA and the construction of a new higher in the privately run facility and the state second terminal must have the airlines on board eventually buying it back. Of the 13 expressions as they are the key users of the facility. In a wider of interest, one that was submitted by an airline context, it is obvious in light of the current con- argued against the concept of an independent or figuration of Dublin Airport that there is a competing terminal, only five could be regarded tremendous opportunity to create one of the best as clear in terms of concept and location and hubs in Europe in terms of integration between none gave clear answers regarding the financial long haul and short haul for the airlines and ease and economic dimensions of such a proposal. of access between passengers and their baggage, Only one gave a suggestion of a landing charge, as Deputy Shortall said. These matters are for the which was in the order of \8.50 in comparison DAA to address. Deputy Shortall is correct in with the \4.90 charge in Dublin Airport at that the Commission for Aviation Regulation is present. So much for this type of competition. the independent arbiter that will dictate the charging regime in the airport. The regulator will Ms O. Mitchell: I am inclined to agree with the not allow for over-capacity but only allow the Minister about the lack of examples of competing costs of what is required for capacity. We will terminals and that this is a step in the dark. Does plan on this basis. I do not have an issue with the Minister agree that it was irresponsible of his planning ten or 15 years beyond what we believe Department and his predecessor to search for will be required until 2015 but we must have an expressions of interest and to put 13 firms and a airport that is for the Irish people. 14th firm more recently to the expense of making On behalf of the Government, I am the guard- proposals if there was no intention of pursuing ian of the taxpayers’ investment in this facility them? I have heard the Minister express the view which is one the key strategic pieces of infrastruc- that his mandate and that of the Dublin Airport ture in this country. The airport should be in Authority is to provide the services of Dublin State hands. I have not seen evidence from any Airport by maximising the use of its lands. Does other country to suggest otherwise and I want to the Minister not agree that the constrained nature progress on this basis. of the site means that it is too small and that every report that has ever been made on the Ms Shortall: I welcome the Minister’s accept- matter, including the DAA’s, states the location ance that the very notion of competing terminals will always be inherently inefficient, not just dur- is flawed and it is about time someone said this. ing the construction phase, and will need to be That not a single person in the media has quest- replaced by the famous third terminal even if we ioned this concept over the past six months or so do go ahead with this project? is extraordinary. Does the Minister accept that Why is the Minister fixated on this site given the battle that has been taking place inside the all that is wrong with it and the indications from Cabinet in recent months is nonsense given that reports that it is not the right site? Has this to do there is no such thing as successful competing ter- with not upsetting the Taoiseach and, therefore, minals? Why has the Minister not convinced his not upsetting the Taoiseach’s unions? Surely the partners in Government that this is nonsense? only issue that matters is that Dublin can compete Why can we not have a decision to proceed with with other capital city airports and not just with the much needed expansion of the facility in terminals within Ireland. This is the type of com- Dublin Airport? Does the Minister’s partners in petition we need and the type we must face up Government not understand the logic of what we to. What matters is getting the right site that is are talking about? Has he not managed to con- big enough to give us growth capacity and not vince them that there is no such thing as success- who owns it. The DAA must go out and search ful competing terminals? For the sake of the trav- for business. It has had it so easy as business has elling public, will the Minister get that message come to it but it has made no effort to accommo- across to them and get on with the job of date this business over the past ten years. Extra expanding the facilities? The issue at Dublin Air- capacity is needed if the DAA is to compete with port is capacity, not competition, and the Minister other airports. should be able to convince his partners of this.

Mr. Cullen: On the information that has been Ms O. Mitchell: I feel there is a breakdown in presented to me, I disagree with the Deputy in communication between the Minister and the terms of some of the suggestions that several sites Dublin Airport Authority. He keeps saying it is that have been decided on are inadequate. As I up to the authority to provide a terminal, which said in my answer, it is a matter for the Dublin is true, but it is not up to it to provide it on its Airport Authority to choose a site. I have no evi- own lands. That is a where there is a difficulty dence that suggests the authority, as a new body between the Minister and the Dublin Airport of fine people, many of whom are experts in this Authority. When the chairman of that authority area, will knowingly do something that is not in appeared before a committee he stated clearly the interests of Irish aviation, airlines and that if he were asked to provide a terminal, his passengers. responsibility would be to maximise the value of 699 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 700

[Ms O. Mitchell.] the low cost end of the business which is growing the airport’s lands. Therefore, he could only on all routes. Equally, there is massive oppor- present the airport’s lands as the site for the ter- tunity for Aer Lingus in terms of long-haul minal. However, he went on to say that if he flights. If we got a coherent result on the oper- wanted the use the optimum lands, the site would ational side between long-haul and short-haul not necessarily be the airport’s lands. That is the flights for the benefit of the passenger, we would nub of the issue. It is an issue of the site having be in business. Dublin will be a formidable hub adequate capacity. I realise that the regulator will compared to some of the other European not give approval for an increase in landing airports. charges beyond what is required at present, but at least we must have a terminal which we can An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must proceed improve in the future. to the next question.

Mr. Cullen: I do not disagree with that view. In Mr. Cullen: People must consider the wider response to Deputy Shortall’s remarks, there has picture. This is about Ireland, not individuals. I been considerable misrepresentation in this am not in this business to look after any part- debate. People are entitled to ask legitimate icular individual but to make a decision on behalf questions, but the word “competition” and “being of this country. competitive” have been completely mixed up and presented as meaning the same thing, but they An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I have called do not. Question No. 3.

Ms Shortall: The Minister should tell his part- Ms Shortall: Did the Minister make that speech ners in Government that. to the Cabinet on Tuesday?

Mr. Cullen: What we want is a competitive, Ms O. Mitchell: The Minister is responsible for efficient, well run, well managed—— making this decision but he has not done so. That is the precise point we have been making. Mr. F. McGrath: That is for what the unions have been fighting for years. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We are way over the time allocated for this question. Mr. Cullen: ——airport for the benefit of our people, namely—— Mr. Cullen: The House knows well where I stand on this issue. Ms Shortall: It is not us but the Progressive Democrats that the Minister needs to convince. Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister is shifting to the left. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Ms O. Mitchell: The Minster is the person Mr. Cullen: ——the customers, passengers and responsible for making this decision. the airlines using the airport. If people want to ask questions, they have every right to do so—— Public Transport. 3. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Trans- Ms Shortall: But not to hold up the decision. port when it is intended to introduce an inte- grated ticketing system into the public transport Mr. Cullen: ——to come up with an optimum system. [15718/05] solution. In regard to what Deputy Olivia Mitchell said, Mr. Cullen: In March 2002, the Railway Pro- there is no disagreement on that. I want the opti- curement Agency was given statutory responsi- mum result at Dublin Airport in terms of the ter- bility for the delivery of an integrated ticketing minal. Practically all the airlines agree on what system. The proposed contactless smartcard- the site should be for much greater reasons than based integrated ticketing system will enable a simply putting in place a piece of infrastructure. passenger to use a ticket on one or more sched- That is what I have been trying to say for the past uled public transport services, by road and rail, few months. irrespective of the transport operator involved. It I am aware of what airlines have been saying will be introduced on a phased basis, initially in to the Dublin Airport Authority. Everybody is the Dublin area. The roll-out of integrated ticket- suddenly thinking outside the box. They are tak- ing using smartcard technology is being phased ing account of the bigger picture in terms of what in, in line with international experience. they can get in benefit from the right decision In April 2004 a private operator, Morton’s being made on the terminal. They are also taking Coaches, in conjunction with the RPA and as a account of how they can increase the traffic, “proof of concept”, successfully launched smart- improve operations and marry the clearly cards on its services. Last March, another step tremendous opportunities in short-haul flights, was taken with the launch of smartcards on Luas 701 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 702 services. The Luas smartcard deployment will Ms Shortall: I would not hold my breath on help obtain important feedback from passengers that. and provide operational experience for the next stage of integrated ticketing. Mr. Cullen: We rolled out the Luas this year. The RPA projects that Dublin Bus, and poss- ibly some additional private operators, will follow Ms Shortall: This is not rocket science. with smartcards on their services by early next year, with the DART projected to follow in late Mr. Cullen: I know that. It took six years for a 2006. In early 2006 passengers should be able to similar development to be put in place in London. travel on both bus and Luas services in Dublin using one integrated smartcard. Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister has not delivered. Ms C. Murphy: The introduction of some level of integrated ticketing would be welcome. The Mr. Cullen: The timeframe for the introduction notion of this idea dates back to the putting in of this system is 2002-06. I am happy that the place of the Dublin transportation initiative system is on schedule. Hong Kong has the most which was drawn up to make an application for successful such system in the world and it took European funding because Dublin city had four years for it to be rolled out. We have started become uncompetitive due to congestion. We to roll out our system. We have it in place in the would laugh if we compared the level of conges- private sector and the public sector. I hope that ´ tion at the time the initiative was put in place to Bus Eireann, the DART and all the other public the current level. The manner in which it is pro- transport deliverers in Dublin will be using this posed to introduce the system seems piecemeal. system by next year. That is the timeframe that That flies in the face of what integrated ticketing was set for this system, and we will meet it. means. The system should be integrated from the day it is introduced. There is an element of paral- Mr. F. McGrath: The Minister of State, Deputy Callely, might deliver it. ysis in introducing integrated ticketing in that what is at issue is more to do with who runs the Mr. Cullen: We will meet that timeframe — it services rather than the arrangements at the other is as simple as that. end, which should be the issue in a fully inte- grated ticketing system. Question No. 4 answered with Question The report on an integrated ticketing system No. 2. was received by the then Minister for Transport, the former Deputy O’Rourke, in 1999. We have Road Network. now heard that there will a phased roll-out of the system. While I welcome the fact that there will 5. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for be some level of ticketing integration, and we are Transport if he will report on the analysis his moving towards a fully integrated ticketing Department has carried out on the future tolling system, I am disappointed the full system will not of the M50. [15771/05] be introduced in a shorter timeframe and that the Mr. Cullen: My Department has not, to date, system will not be fully integrated from the day carried out an analysis on the future tolling of the it is introduced. M50. The statutory power to levy tolls on From the point of view of the amount of money national roads and to enter toll agreements with that was spent on the transport system—— private investors in respect of national roads is vested in the National Roads Authority under An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy is Part VI of the Roads Act 1993, as amended by required to put a supplementary question. the Planning and Development Act 2000. Tolling of the M50, therefore, and any changes to the cur- Ms C. Murphy: The Minister referred to the rent tolling arrangements, is a matter, in the first phased introduction of the system. Will it be instance, for the NRA. Given the transport policy phased in as between private and public service issues involved, however, my approval would also providers or exclusively by public service be required for changes in current tolling providers? arrangements. In the context of the overall upgrade of the Mr. Cullen: I want the system to be available M50 the NRA is negotiating and seeking to agree to everybody who provides a public transport ser- with NTR a strategy for the upgrade of that vice here. That is the way the customer wants the section of the M50 operated by NTR, that is, the system to work, namely, to facilitate ease of section between the Navan Road and Galway movement in terms of whatever mode of trans- Road interchanges and the West Link toll facility. port the customer chooses to use. I wish to clarify A key objective of these negotiations will be to that the timeframe for the introduction of this agree a strategy for the move to barrier-free tol- system is four years. That 2002-06 timeframe is ling on the M50. The conduct of these nego- the best in terms of the world norm. tiations is a matter for the NRA and the final 703 Priority 12 May 2005. Questions 704

[Mr. Cullen.] not having in place alternative facilities but, ulti- outcome will be submitted for my approval. For mately, the growth in traffic will require demand the sake of clarity, I have asked both sides to management. achieve this. Barrier-free tolling is a must. Mr. Eamon Ryan: Does the Minister accept Mr. Eamon Ryan: The Minister has my sym- that the position of the engineer consultants pathy, having inherited the greatest mess in the presented to An Bord Pleana´la’s hearing, the history of transport, a mess which is not of his Dublin Transportation office engineers and the making. Last week we heard of the NRA itself was that such demand management \ 4 o’clock incredible waste of 20 billion expen- measures should not be in the form of traffic diture on roads in terms of the build- lights on these freeflow junctions and that it ing of 800 kilometres of motorway leading to this would have to be a new form of tolling? Does he one road. I am sure the Minister will accept, as accept that his Department should carry out an An Bord Pleana´la and the Taoiseach have, that it analysis on whether it should buy out the West will not work. Does the Minister’s Department Link toll bridge and consider an alternative not have a role in deciding funding of the upgrad- system which would provide some sort of demand ing of the M50? Does it include an analysis on management facilities, as is being considered for whether we should have an extension of tolling the M25 widening in London? Does the Minister on the West Link toll bridge to pay for the second believe this is the way we should go or what is stage of the upgrade of the M50? Is the Depart- the alternative? ment engaged in discussions and negotiations on the process and, if not, can we take it for granted Mr. Cullen: I already answered the Deputy’s that the NRA’s position, which was presented to a committee of this House, that the road will not question twice, but obviously he does not agree work means there will have to be different with my reply. I agree that there must be demand demand management measures, which An Bord management in the future. There are many differ- Pleana´la requires? Will this require a different ent ways of doing so; it does not necessarily mean tolling system on the M50 because everyone tolling all the exits and entrances on the M50. acknowledges that the current West Link toll This is one of the options which is suggested. I facility has no demand management facility? If agree with the Deputy that there should not be the Department is not engaged in that process, I traffic lights which would stop the flow of traffic. presume the NRA’s position is the one that will There needs to be a freeflow traffic system. be advanced by Government. Has the Minister a view on the matter or when will his Department Mr. Eamon Ryan: Does the Minister accept become involved? I understood that it was that we would also have to buy out the West already involved. Link?

Mr. Cullen: I set out the legal responsibilities Mr. Cullen: The income streams from the toll in this regard. Under various Acts, the National bridge are used by the State for the upgrading of Roads Authority is charged with these the M50, which is extremely important and much responsibilities. I have a view which I expressed warranted. I welcome the project which has been directly to National Toll Roads and the NRA. I approved by An Bord Pleana´la and is now want to move to barrier-free tolling on the M50 under way. as quickly as is humanly possible. I have asked for that. Mr. Eamon Ryan: That use of future funds from the West Link toll bridge to pay for the M50 Mr. Eamon Ryan: No one disagrees—— relates to the extension of tolling on the West Link bridge from 2020 to 2035. Given that the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister toll facility has no demand management functions without interruption. and never can have, how can the Minister pro- pose that approach when he admitted that by Mr. Eamon Ryan: No one disagrees with bar- 2020 we will need some sort of demand manage- rier-free tolling. That is not the issue. ment measures? Why is he tying us into a tolling system that is all about revenue generation and Mr. Cullen: Let me move to my second point. not about demand management? It makes no We are increasing the capacity of the M50 by sense. 50%, which is substantial. It will be of great benefit to road users in that area. There is no Mr. Cullen: The Deputy is missing my point. I doubt that we will have to move to demand man- have already spoken to the NRA and NTR, two agement of traffic in Dublin. However, before commercial operations. The NRA operates inde- moving fully to that position, I want to give pendently but on behalf of the State. It must people in Dublin and those who visit the capital negotiate with NTR. It is exploring many options city a choice of public transport access into the with regard to substantial improvements and tol- city. This is the fairest way to deal with the ling on the M50. I look forward to the conclusion matter. I will not penalise or punish people by of the discussions and to the NRA coming back 705 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 706 to me with proposals. I have a very open mind on empowered to undertake functions delegated to what can be achieved. I want to achieve a much them on an agreed basis by the Dublin Airport better operation of the M50. Authority. Each of the airport authorities is also required to prepare comprehensive business Other Questions. plans for their airports. As part of this process, the Dublin Airport Authority will consider the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I remind the future direction of its business, including the posi- House that supplementary questions and answers tion of its subsidiaries. are subject to a maximum of one minute each. In accordance with the 2004 Act, the transfer of assets to Shannon and Cork airport authorities State Airports. cannot take place earlier than 30 April 2005 and, 6. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Transport if, thereafter, a phased approach will allow one of in view of concerns expressed regarding the the new airport authorities to be vested first, that future of the Great Southern Hotels group, he is, Shannon Airport, while Cork Airport will be has had any discussions with the Dublin Airport vested once sufficient distributable reserves have Authority given the role of these hotels as flag- been built up within the Dublin Airport ships of the tourism and hotel industry; and if he Authority. will make a statement on the matter. [15009/05] The Minister for Finance and I must be satis- 17. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Trans- fied as to the state of operational and financial port if he has received the three business plans readiness of the Shannon and Cork airport auth- from each of the three State airports; if he will orities before the assets of the airports are vested publish these plans; if and when he envisages the in those authorities. The formulation of compre- break-up of Aer Rianta being sanctioned; and if hensive business plans by the new boards will be he will make a statement on the matter. a key aspect of achieving operational and finan- [15488/05] cial readiness. The three airport authorities are preparing comprehensive business plans with the 57. Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Transport Dublin Airport Authority co-ordinating the pro- if the promised business plans for Shannon and cess. Finalised business plans have not yet been Cork airports have been furnished to his Depart- submitted. ment; and if he will make a statement on the As part of its business plan, the Dublin Airport matter. [15586/05] Authority will be putting forward its proposals 65. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Trans- for the future of the Great Southern Hotels port if he has taken a decision on the distribution group. I have had discussions with the Minister of Aer Rianta’s assets between the three State for Arts, Sport and Tourism about the Great airports; and if he will make a statement on the Southern Hotels group and I am aware of their matter. [15489/05] importance to Irish tourism. I will consider the 72. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Trans- DAA’s proposals in consultation with the Mini- port his views on the removal of the Great South- ster for Finance in the overall context of the busi- ern hotels from the control of the Dublin Airport ness plans as provided for under the State Air- Authority; his further views on the sale of the ports Act 2004. Great Southern hotels to the private sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Ms Shortall: Does the Minister accept that the [15490/05] break-up of Aer Rianta is not quite as simple as his predecessor suggested and we are a long way Mr. Cullen: I propose to take Questions Nos. from disentangling that company? I am sure he is 6, 17, 57, 65 and 72 together. grateful to him for the legacy he has left him. In keeping with the provisions of the State Air- ports Act 2004, the board of the Dublin Airport On the Great Southern hotels chain, does the Authority has a statutory mandate to do every- Minister accept that clarity is needed for the staff thing necessary to give effect to the restructuring of the hotels, given the role they have played in of the State airports. The Shannon and Cork air- the tourism industry and that it has been a flag- port authorities were incorporated in October ship company which has made a significant con- 2004 and in line with the framework provided by tribution to raising standards and providing very the State Airports Act 2004, these two new auth- high quality training opportunities for staff in the orities will in due course own and operate their industry? Does he agree that the staff need some respective airports once sufficient distributable clarity in respect of their future? Last month the reserves are available to transfer the relevant chairman of the airport authority indicated assets. clearly that it was his intention to dispose of the Prior to the assets of Shannon and Cork air- hotels, yet the Minister is giving staff reassurances ports being vested in their respective authorities, that this will not happen and, as long as the their boards are charged with preparing to Government is in power, the chain will remain assume full responsibility for the management in public ownership. These are two diametrically and development of their airports. They are also opposed positions. 707 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 708

An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a guise of Aer Rianta, must be dealt with. I am question? waiting to see what these issues are. The chair- man has enunciated fairly some of the issues that Ms Shortall: Will the Minister clarify for the must be grappled with. staff of the Great Southern Hotels group what Having considered the tourism market and the exactly lies ahead of them in terms of their job history of the Great Southern Hotels and the con- security and job prospects for the future? tribution they have made, I know of no reason the hotels could not and should not be very prof- Mr. Cullen: I fully understand the importance itable. The hotel business is largely profitable. of the Great Southern Hotels group, about which There are issues for management and staff in the I have spoken to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Great Southern Hotels group to reconcile. If this Tourism. While I do not wish to pre-empt the reconciliation is achieved, it will help to return business plans, I have met the people in Cork, the hotels to profitability. The Minister for Arts, Shannon and Dublin and there is great enthusi- Sport and Tourism and I have discussed this issue asm for what is happening. The opportunities that informally and I share his views. independence will bring to Shannon and Cork have been well greeted and they are up for the Mr. Eamon Ryan: I accept that the Minister challenges. must see the business plans. As of now, does he The redistribution of the assets is a complex have an inkling as to whether the hotels should process. All the issues that filter into that must be or could be kept in public ownership? He stated dealt with. People have different perspectives on he had discussions with the Minister for Arts, different aspects. I am anxious that the Great Sport and Tourism. Had he any communications Southern Hotels group has a major future. with the Taoiseach on this issue? In any such There are many factors that can make that hap- communications, has the Taoiseach expressed a pen, including the management and staff in the view on whether the assets should be kept in hotels. One of the difficulties at present is that State ownership? the hotel group is losing substantial amounts of money. This is not sustainable for anybody, Mr. Cullen: The history of the Great Southern including the staff. It is not good from its perspec- Hotels group is clear. I have no objection to tive. Clearly, the restructuring process must maintaining Great Southern Hotels in State involve a consideration of how we can maximise ownership, if it remains profitable. However, the the benefit of the Great Southern Hotels group hotels must be run efficiently and well in terms and return it to profit. of the mix in the tourism market and the hotel There has been considerable investment in business, which is very competitive. There is no tourism and hotels in recent years and there is reason the group should not remain in State no reason, therefore, that Great Southern Hotels ownership. should not be very profitable and to the fore in I am in the difficult position of having to pro- the industry. I would like to see this happen. ceed without the business plans. I do not want to Ms O. Mitchell: Does the Minister consider it pre-empt or speculate on what might be in them. fair, either to the hotels or the fledgeling Dublin It is fair to those who are putting them together Airport Authority, to leave the hotels in the care that I wait until the Minister for Finance and I of an organisation that admits it does not have receive them. In light of the viability of all the the interest, finance or ability necessary to run entities the Minister for Finance and I must hotels? Running hotels is not what the authority approve the entire process in which we are does or what it is good at. Does it not have engaged and the completion of the business enough to do in running airports? Does it not plans. behove the Minister to remove the hotels from the care of the authority for the sake of both the Mr. Eamon Ryan: Has the Minister had any hotels and the airport? indication from the Taoiseach? It does not seem to be in anybody’s interest to allow these circumstances to persist. The annual Mr. Cullen: There has been much general dis- loss of \2.2 million represents a drain not just on cussion. The Government, including the the hotels but on the airport. It has considerable Taoiseach, is anxious to see the business plans implications for the fledgeling airport authority. produced. The Taoiseach has been very clear that he believes the Great Southern Hotels group is Mr. Cullen: One of the benefits of our current an important element in the public sector and position is that we engage in serious business would like to see it remain in that sector. planning. It is difficult to answer the Deputy’s question in that I have not got the business plan. Mr. Eamon Ryan: Has the Taoiseach made However, Dublin Airport Authority has made is that view known to the Minister? absolutely clear that, in the business planning process, all the issues concerning the subsidiaries Mr. Cullen: He said that publicly on numer- of the authority, which formerly existed in the ous occasions. 709 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 710

Ms O. Mitchell: On airports generally, rather An Ceann Comhairle: I appreciate that but I than hotels, comfort was offered to both Cork have called Deputy Shortall. We are rapidly run- and Shannon airports in respect of the financial ning out of time. status of their respective authorities, as the Mini- ster is aware. When the State Airports Bill was Ms Shortall: Is the Minister aware of the com- passed, everybody understood the authorities ments made by Gary McGann to the members of would be free of debt, if established. There is the Committee on Transport to the effect that the great concern in Cork that this position may have three business plans were far from finalised and changed, as I am sure the Minister is aware. that there were major problems associated with There are indications that the Minister is of a agreeing them? different view to the people in Cork. This may be What of the former Minister’s talk of Cork and because of overruns associated with the terminal Shannon airports starting off on a clean slate? or losses pertaining to some of the assets of the Does the Minister, Deputy Cullen, accept that a former Aer Rianta. political decision needs to be taken on the future In fairness to Cork people generally, and to of Aer Rianta International and the Great South- allow the authority to prepare its plan, it is ern Hotels group before the business plans can important that those concerned know precisely be finalised? what they are facing. Has the Minister changed his mind? Has the Government changed its mind Mr. Cullen: Deputies Shortall and Olivia regarding the setting up of Cork and Shannon air- Mitchell are making my point for me. I am being port authorities without debt? Is the corollary asked to answer quite legitimate questions, with such that any outstanding debt would remain with Dublin Airport? which I have no issue, but I cannot do so in advance of seeing the business plans. The plans Mr. Cullen: The transfer of assets to Shannon must contain the answers to the questions the and Cork airport authorities could not have taken Deputies have raised. place earlier than April of this year. For the com- pany to distribute its assets, it must have the cash Ms Shortall: They are political decisions. reserves to match the distributive value of those assets. The early indications were that Shannon Mr. Cullen: Let us produce the business plans Airport would be dealt with first and that it might first. We are often accused of trying to shoot in take some time to deal with Cork Airport. the dark without obtaining the facts. The Deputy However, it is absolutely clear that Cork, should allow me to obtain the facts on the busi- Shannon and Dublin airports will have to be ness plans. We will have to make decisions on viable on foot of the business plans. There is no foot of them. point in proceeding if they cannot be made viable. Ms O. Mitchell: They are based on the avail- ability of facts. Ms O. Mitchell: If they are set up with debt, how can they be viable? Ms Shortall: How can that be done when the authorities do not know the future of the money- An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Minister to making facet of the business? contribute without interruption. The Deputy cannot rise without being called by the Chair. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Shortall should allow the Minister to contribute without Ms O. Mitchell: The whole point was that they interruption. would be set up without debt. Mr. Cullen: What was Deputy Shortall’s Mr. Cullen: I know of no business that does not question? have some debt attaching to it. There were many interpretations of some of the comments made at Ms Shortall: How can any of the airport auth- an early phase. I had meetings with representa- orities decide on its future without knowing what tives of Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports and there is no question but that everybody wants the will happen to the money-making facet of the airports to become independent as quickly as business, Aer Rianta International? The Mini- possible. People want Cork and Shannon airports ster’s predecessor gave very clear signals of his to operate on the most viable and commercially intentions in this regard. Does the Minister not sound grounds. I will wait for the business plans have to make what is ultimately a political before demonstrating how this is to be achieved. decision on what is to happen to Aer Rianta International? An Ceann Comhairle: I call on Deputy Shortall to make a brief final question. An Ceann Comhairle: Before the Minister replies, I will allow a brief question from Deputy Ms O. Mitchell: My question was not answered. Olivia Mitchell. 711 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 712

Ms O. Mitchell: My question is similar to that port. It seems the business plans must come from of Deputy Shortall. The business plans are predi- Dublin Airport before we can hear them. Does cated on the availability of certain facts. Cork the Minister agree that for lack of a small invest- Airport Authority, for instance, began planning ment, in the order of \15 million, Cork Airport on the basis that it would start off without debt. could have a navigational system which would Now it does not know. How can it prepare the allow planes to land even during fogbound business plans without that information? Deputy periods? The lack of that investment hampers Shortall is right, political decisions must be made Cork Airport in its competition with Shannon or so that the business plans can be realistic. Dublin airports, if the three airports truly com- pete. Who makes such a decision? Does Dublin Mr. Cullen: There is no disagreement between Airport make the decision, given that the Mini- the three of us on this matter. The discussions ster said all three airports must get together to between Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports deal discuss their business plans? Is it left to Cork Air- with those issues. They are making decisions port alone? If Cork Airport has no cash, assets or based on the hard facts of what is profitable and certainty about the source of its money, how can what is not, and the best structure for the future. it decide on a practical measure—— Some political decisions may need to be taken as an outcome of that business plan. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has gone I have given these sound business people a stra- well outside the limits of his colleague’s question, tegic mandate to operate the three State airports which was purely statistical. We have heard sev- successfully, commercially and profitably. They eral questions about developments in Cork are discussing the issues in that mandate and will Airport. make the division on that sound basis. Mr. Eamon Ryan: I beg the Ceann Comhairle’s Ms Shortall: Which airport will get Aer leave to ask the Minister to reply to the questions Rianta? I have asked.

Mr. Cullen: I would not like to mislead the Mr. Cullen: I have been more than open with House. Business planning is going on between the the Deputies this afternoon. I am disappointed three airports under the direction of Dublin Air- that Deputy Ryan is trying to trivialise the port Authority. The three airports are working matter. out with the authority how these business plans stack up. One cannot make a business plan unless Mr. Eamon Ryan: I am not trivialising the one possesses all the facts. They have the com- matter. mercial facts. I am waiting for the business plans to come back, which may require us to make Mr. Cullen: This is a case of serious business some political decisions. planning to split one organisation into three. The three parts must be party to the discussions. That 7. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Transport is reasonable and sound. I do not have the answer the number of passenger diversions from Cork to the Deputy’s technical question and am not Airport to other airports to date in 2005. going to guess it. In my response to the initial [15657/05] question I said that the diversion rate of 1% at Cork Airport is well in line with international Mr. Cullen: The movement of aircraft at Cork norms. Airport is an operational matter for the airport authorities and the airlines concerned, subject to Driving Tests. compliance with aviation safety requirements. 8. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Transport However, I am informed by the Dublin Airport the numbers of persons awaiting tests at the latest Authority that for the first four months of this date for which figures are available and the aver- year, 1.8% of planned arrivals at Cork Airport age waiting time in regard to each driver testing were diverted or cancelled, compared to an aver- centre; the steps he is taking to reduce waiting age annual diversion rate of approximately 1%. times; the number of driver testers in each year The main reason for this excess above the norm from 1997 to 2005; and if he will make a state- was a particularly bad spell of bad weather during ment on the matter. [15564/05] March when the diversion rate reached 3.8%. Overall, I am informed that the rate of diversions Mr. Cullen: Table 1 sets out the numbers wait- at Cork Airport is in line with international statis- ing and the average waiting time at each driving tics. Ultimately, a decision to land or divert an test centre on 9 May 2005. Table 2 sets out the aircraft is a matter for the pilot, having regard to number of driver testers, including supervisory all safety requirements. testers, employed by my Department between 1997 and 2005. My Department and the Depart- Mr. Eamon Ryan: It is interesting in our new ment of Finance have agreed a package of divided world to heara response to a question measures which includes increased productivity, regarding Cork Airport coming from Dublin Air- the recruitment of additional testers and the out- 713 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 714 sourcing of a block of tests. These measures have Centre Average Numbers a potential to reduce the numbers awaiting a test weeks waiting waiting by up to 80,000. Consultations with staff interests have commenced on the implementation of these measures. South West Region Cork 26 6,939 Table 1 Killarney 34 2,101 Average waiting times and numbers waiting for driving tests Kilrush 15 461 at 9 May 2005 Limerick 31 3,931 Mallow 30 2,128 Centre Average Numbers Newcastle West 28 1,817 weeks waiting waiting Shannon 40 876 Skibbereen 36 2,024 North Leinster Region Tralee 23 1,717 Finglas 25 9,923 Dundalk 27 3,211 Mullingar 19 1,909 Table 2 Navan 39 4,549 Driver Testers Employed at 1 January each year. Raheny 30 7,877 Year Driver Testers Employed South Leinster Region

Churchtown/Rathgar 37 11,509 1997 77 Gorey 37 2,291 1998 73 Naas 38 5,369 1999 81 Tullamore 41 2,061 2000 109 Wicklow 31 2,529 2001 113 Tallaght 35 8,989 2002 130 2003 127 West Region 2004 130 Athlone 29 1,235 2005 129 Birr 26 1,183 Castlebar 30 2,162 Clifden 16 424 Ennis 18 1,265 Ms Shortall: The Minister’s announcement on Galway 26 3,051 Tuesday about reducing waiting lists for driving Loughrea 16 921 tests sounded well, but people should not get too excited because his predecessor, the Minister, Roscommon 18 862 Deputy Brennan, made a similar announcement Tuam 16 1,051 in February 2003. Does the Minister accept that North West Region there are now longer waiting lists for the driving Ballina 19 1,089 test and fewer testers? There is fewer than one tester for every 1,000 people on the waiting list. Buncrana 29 664 The Minister announced a package on Tuesday Carrick-on-Shannon 27 994 promising to cut the waiting list to a month within Cavan 26 1,641 the next 18 months. Where does he propose to Donegal 29 1,176 find the driver testers? Are there qualified driver Letterkenny 34 2,236 testers waiting to be employed? How does he Longford 22 959 propose to train recruits to bring them up to the Monaghan 25 1,279 standard that prevails? How does he propose to Sligo 16 1,596 ensure that the standards are sufficiently high in the testing undertaken by private sector oper- South East Region ators? How will he ensure even standards Carlow 38 2,387 between public and private sector testers? Surely Clonmel 46 2,111 it would make more sense to set up the driving Dungarvan 26 1,661 standards authority and recruit additional staff to Kilkenny 34 2,158 that authority. Nenagh 47 892 Portlaoise 22 1,588 Mr. Cullen: I am pleased the Department of Thurles 47 1,186 Finance has supported the measures I proposed Tipperary 38 1,089 and I thank the Minister for Finance for that. The Waterford 29 2,785 number of testers employed is substantially larger than it was. I do not know why the Deputy says Wexford 33 2,404 there are fewer now. I can give her the figures 715 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 716

[Mr. Cullen.] 37. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Trans- if she wishes. There are 129 testers and several port the main findings of the security audit at vacancies, which I intend to fill immediately. Dublin Airport recently undertaken by the Euro- We have appointed a new chief executive pean Civil Aviation Conference; his views on the officer to lead the driving standards authority. serious security lapses reportedly discovered; the Under his aegis the authority will put a block of steps which have been taken to deal with such tests out to tender in the market. He has assured lapses and remove any safety or security risk to me this is possible. We will incentivise our own passengers; and if he will make a statement on driver testers on the number of tests carried out the matter. [15550/05] over a base figure of so many tests per day. 63. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Trans- Approximately 40,000 of the backlog of 80,000 port if he has received a report on security at tests will be carried out by our testers and the Dublin Airport, as announced in the wake of balance by outside testers. My wish is that the recent security breaches at the airport; if this backlog will be cleared by the end of next year report will be published; the recommendations when the waiting time will be a matter of weeks. contained in the report; if he intends fully to Ms Shortall: Where will the Minister find the implement such recommendations; and if he will testers? make a statement on the matter. [15503/05] Mr. Cullen: I propose to take Questions Nos. Mr. Cullen: The new chief executive of the 9, 37 and 63 together. driving standards authority says they are avail- On completion of the recent EU inspection of able. Some training will be needed to ensure Dublin Airport, officials from my Department uniformity. and the Dublin Airport Authority received an oral briefing on the findings of the inspection. I Ms Shortall: I should hope so. What are the have received a report from my officials on the Minister’s proposals in that regard? outcome of that debriefing. In accordance with established procedures and practice, my Depart- Mr. Cullen: The training will ensure uniformity ment, the European Commission or the Dublin and consistency in the standard of driver testing Airport Authority will not make any comment on across the country. the specific outcomes of the EU inspection. The European Commission will send a formal report Ms Shortall: How does the Minister propose to to my Department in due course dealing with all do that training? relevant issues. This is a confidential security report and will not be published. Mr. Cullen: The authority will train the testers. I am determined that any issues identified dur- That is why we are setting up the authority. I am ing the inspection will be remedied. Apart from told by all sides, including internally, that it will the immediate remedial actions put in place dur- achieve this. It will be done if there is a will to ing the inspection, I have instructed my officials do it. to prepare an action plan in response to the Com- mission findings. This action plan has been pre- Ms Shortall: They will be training themselves. pared in consultation with the Dublin Airport Authority, airlines and other stakeholders. I Mr. Cullen: I am an optimist. I believe that one expect all relevant authorities will fully engage can get through problems if one sticks to the and co-operate with my Department to ensure facts. there is full and consistent application of the required security measures. Ms Shortall: The Minister is naive. The House will understand that the nature of security precludes detailed discussion of Mr. Cullen: If one sticks to the facts the truth measures. Therefore, I will not disclose the nat- will always stand by one. ure or extent of any security measures that have been implemented or the nature of any additional Ms O. Mitchell: The Minister is wrong. measures that are under consideration. However, I am satisfied that the DAA and airlines Mr. Cullen: One should never be afraid of the responded effectively and immediately to truth. deficiencies identified during the inspection. In this regard, the DAA has appointed an inter- Airport Security. national security firm to review security at Dublin 9. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Trans- Airport. I welcome the fact that it has done that. port the steps being taken to deal with the delays The National Civil Aviation Security Committee caused to passengers at Dublin Airport arising met last Thursday, 5 May 2005, and was briefed from the introduction of enhanced security on the audit and the proposed action plan. measures; and if he will make a statement on the On the issue of delays, I have been advised that matter. [15551/05] the DAA is monitoring passenger movement and 717 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 718 controls to minimise inconvenience and delays Why was it not aware of what appear to be and it is liaising closely with airlines. The auth- serious lapses in security, as revealed by the EU ority has advised me that they will maximise the committee? use of existing facilities and will endeavour to manage airport processes effectively to cope with Mr. Cullen: The security is to the highest stan- the increasing passenger numbers passing dard. Some of the airlines said that the security through the terminal. The authority operates 14 facilities at Dublin Airport are among the best in X-ray screening points for passenger screening the world. Clearly on this particular day there purposes, an increase of three new screening were lapses on the part of Dublin Airport and the points since the EU inspection. Refurbishment airlines. As they were identified on the day, they works are under way to accommodate an were corrected and further enhancements have additional two X-ray screening points and taken place. additional X-ray equipment has been ordered. By June, 120 new staff will have been recruited Ms Shortall: Is the Minister suggesting that this for screening operations and 40 of these new staff happened by chance? have already been brought into live screening operation. The DAA has also implemented a An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Shortall should queue management system for crowd control pur- allow the Minister to reply without interruption. poses. Airlines are co-operating by opening The Chair has been very lenient with the Deputy check-in desks earlier. I welcome this important who took more than the one minute allowed to measure. Passengers have also been encouraged make her contribution and without the Chair to minimise the volume of hand baggage intervening. She should therefore allow the Mini- presented at the screening points, not to carry ster to answer. sharp objects and to co-operate with the instruc- tions of screeners. The DAA has informed me Mr. Cullen: The National Civil Aviation Secur- that the queue times average 15 minutes at peak ity Committee was constituted in 1974. From periods during weekdays and 25 minutes at the people in my Department I know this issue is busiest holiday traffic period at the weekends. taken extraordinarily seriously and regular checks During off-peak periods passenger queue times take place. There were failures on that day but average not more than five minutes. they were not catastrophic. There were specific I am committed to ensuring the highest stan- issues tested that were not up to standard. I dards of aviation security at our airports and I would not defend that and my views have been will ensure that the lessons learned from the EU made well known. The security staff were disap- inspection are taken on board. Specifically I will pointed in their performance and have looked to ensure that the security issues are addressed in correct those issues. Security is an issue in all air- co-operation with the relevant parties so that ports. The Dublin Airport Authority has been there is full confidence in the security arrange- asked to manage the entire security operation to ments and that those arrangements are managed the best convenience of passengers. There is sub- in such a way as to minimise passenger incon- stantial recruitment of staff, 40 new people are venience. already working there and extra X-ray areas and machines will facilitate greater efficiency. Ms Shortall: Is the Minister aware that about this time last year, reporters from a Sunday news- Ms O. Mitchell: I have great admiration for the paper attempted to bring bomb-making equip- way the authorities have responded to the lapse ment through Dublin and Shannon airports? that was detected. I am sure many passengers do They had no difficulty in doing so and wrote an not feel the same when they are delayed. article about it. Subsequently I asked a question Additional channels and training have been put of the Minister’s predecessor. Will the current in place as quickly as possible. Is congestion and Minister tell the House about the system in his a lack of infrastructure not largely the cause of Department to monitor airport security? His pre- this lapse? The visible manifestations of this are decessor said that he had full confidence in the queuing, under-provision and a lack of infrastruc- airport security system and that it was being con- ture in the provision of every service at the air- stantly reviewed by this committee, which is port. That affects service providers as well as chaired by his Department. The committee passengers. How can the Taoiseach be of the view assured everyone that there was tight security to that there is no congestion at Dublin Airport and the highest standards at Dublin Airport. How did that capacity poses no problem until 2009? He Dublin Airport so spectacularly fail the standards says he was told by the Dublin Airport Authority required by this EU committee when last year the that this was the case. Is that in line with the Minister’s Department assured everyone that Minister’s beliefs? everything was under control and that it was per- My understanding is that when people use fectly happy with the security standards in Dublin Dublin Airport as a stopover, they must come out Airport? What role, if any, has that committee and go through security again. That is not the played in the Department over the past year? practice in most airports. Does that add to 719 Other 12 May 2005. Questions 720

[Ms O. Mitchell.] the past week, that is, that there should be at least queues? Is there potential in that for reducing one access point in the security system for those queuing time for people coming through the with no hand luggage. We agree with the Deputy airport? on that point. I do not regard a ten or 15 minute wait as excessive. All Members have had the Mr. Cullen: There is no doubt about it. All experience of travelling through airports through- those factors contribute to the issues at Dublin out the world. I have queued at many airports for Airport. Deputy Mitchell, and Deputy Shortall 40 or 50 minutes. That is the way it is. Certainly earlier, enunciated what people reporting on heightened security post-11 September 2001 has these issues do not understand. There are two impacted greatly on ease of access and travel. The capacity problems emerging at Dublin Airport. matter of shoes is an issue, given the way in which We have not passed them by because clearly they items can be concealed in them and they have to exist. One is airside for airline capacity, and that be checked. In regard to health and safety issues, compounds the internal dynamics of capacity I would expect all those involved are aware of within the airport. The other, which I would not their obligation. have thought about it this way until someone pointed it out to me but it is interesting, is that Ms Shortall: Will the Minister accept that it is the space in Dublin Airport from landside to air- not credible to suggest that by chance on the one side is very narrow. There is a great deal of day when the EU committee happened to be in activity in a small area. I agree with the Taoiseach Dublin airport there was a coincidental lapse in and the figures indicate that we need extra capa- security? Does the Minister accept that the EU city. We need extra airside capacity by 2007. That committee has shown up a system’s failure at is on the record. Dublin airport? Will he explain why the commit- tee under the aegis of his Department which has Ms O. Mitchell: It is needed this summer. explicit responsibility for monitoring security at the airports did not manage to uncover this Mr. Cullen: We need the terminal capacity by system’s failure and what action he will take in 2009 or 2010. Not only will that have an impact respect of that committee? Surely he will not on a new terminal or the new pier D and contact leave those same people, who failed to detect this stands that will be created, it will allow us to problem, in place on that committee? Has he reconfigure the operation into a much more moved to replace the committee? cohesive one. Deputy Mitchell raised an important point regarding transiting through Mr. Cullen: The key people on the committee Dublin Airport. It will have to be made easier for passengers to transit and this is linked to the hold high public office whether in the Garda or creation of a hub. There would have to be good elsewhere, and I am not in a position to remove transit facilities for passenger if it were to work. them from office. They are the best people. That would be much more achievable in the sort of configurations that are now being explored. Ms Shortall: It is even more serious than that.

Mr. Crowe: I am glad to hear the delay has Mr. Cullen: We should be more balanced with been reduced to 15 to 25 minutes. I was there on regard to the issue on the day. By and large the May Day weekend and it took me an hour to get security system was excellent. A few issues were through. Has the Minister visited the airport to pointed out. From my reading of the issue, the examine the situation? One of the new security more serious failures were with the airlines, not measures suggested is that people take their within the airport. I say that without fear or fav- shoes off. Is there not a health and safety issue in our. There are specific areas in aeroplanes that regard to people taking their shoes off? Thou- must be checked every time. Objects were placed sands of people go through the airport, some of in those areas that had to be checked but they whom have verruca and so on. Part of the prob- were not checked. That is extremely serious. The lem has to do with hand luggage. Why is there response from the airlines and the authority has not a separate line for those who do not have been excellent. I understand from the security hand luggage? Is the Minister concerned at the personnel involved that regular checks are car- delays? While reduced somewhat, there are still ried out throughout the airport and to my know- unacceptable delays. There appears to be utter ledge nothing untoward has gone wrong. On the confusion with people trying to board planes and particular day in question there was not a huge tourists panic-stricken in case they miss their number of lapses. There were a couple of areas flights. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. where the system did not work and that was My suggestions are sensible and perhaps the rightly pointed out. I welcome unannounced Minister will consider them. security checks at Dublin airport.

Mr. Cullen: The Deputy has picked up on an Ms Shortall: What has the committee been issue that colleagues have raised with me during doing? 721 Rail 12 May 2005. Network 722

Mr. Cullen: I have spoken to the officials in my Adjournment Debate. Department who were taken aback because they had been carrying out regular checks and did not ———— see these flaws. The flaws have been corrected in a way that will make it virtually impossible for Rail Network. those types of issues to occur again. Dr. Cowley: I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to raise this important matter on the Ms Shortall: Taken aback is hardly an adjournment. We have suffered heavily from the adequate response. failure of successive Governments to ensure balanced regional development through a failure Mr. Cullen: No, but put in context, by and large to invest adequately in infrastructure in the west. all the security issues worked extremely well. Four years have elapsed under the national plan and in the meantime \22.8 billion has been spent (Interruptions). in the south and east regions and \8.3 billion in the BMW region. The south and east regions An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Shortall, the spend represents 92% of what was forecast in the Minister’s questions have concluded. national development plan but the BMW region has achieved only 75% of the projected spend. Written answers follow Adjournment Debate. The west and north-western part of County Mayo is in serious decline. It is the most socio- Business of Da´il. economically deprived area of Ireland. Half of Mayo graduates have to go to Dublin for their Mr. Cassidy: I wish to draw to the attention of first job. If the present rate of decline continues the House that I understood earlier today that I north and west Mayo, in a line west of Killala to had voted on Second Stage of the Electoral Newport, will be completely deserted by the end (Amendment) Bill 2005. However, it has since of the century. After generations of party politics been brought to my attention that one of my in Mayo we do not have the roads, rail, telecom- votes has not been recorded. I wish to put on munications and broadband infrastructure record that it was my full intention to vote for needed to make it a competitive area. both votes. I thank the Cheann Comhairle for If broken promises were infrastructure, we allowing me to bring this matter to his attention. would have all the assets we need to compete with any region of the world. That is why the Ms Shortall: Is the Deputy happy with the western rail corridor is so important for Mayo. It revision? is the most important piece of unused infrastruc- ture along the entire west region, a wonderful An Ceann Comhairle: While Deputy Cassidy catalyst for the development of the west. It would has made the point and it has been put on the open up the entire area from Knock airport to record of the House, I wish to make it clear that Shannon airport right through to Rosslare. This this cannot become a precedent. Members dissat- route which closed in 1976 runs from Sligo to isfied with the electronic recording or not Limerick via Galway and Ennis, and passes recording of votes, as the case may be, must raise through Claremorris, Tuam and Athenry. The cost of the Ennis to Claremorris line has been the matter at the time of the vote. estimated at approximately \170 million, while \365 million would reopen the entire link. Adjournment Debate Matters. Opening the line from Claremorris, County An Ceann Comhairle: I wish to advise the Mayo, would provide a commuter service to Galway city. Iarnro´ dE´ ireann estimates that it House of the following matters in respect of would take two years to reopen the first section which notice has been given under Standing of the line. Once again we are hoping and wait- Order 21 and the name of the Member in each ing. We await news, possibly tomorrow, about the case (1) Deputy Gormley — the series of attacks future of the western rail corridor. The fear is that on Jewish property in the Portobello area where Government will be true to form and may well racist graffiti was sprayed on Jewish landmarks; announce opening the southern end of the line (2) Deputy Costello — that the Minister address but will neglect the western part, Ennis to Sligo, the three-year crisis in the prison system arising which unfortunately would be par for the course from the dispute with prison officers; and (3) so far as successive Governments are concerned Deputy Cowley — to ask the Minister if he will regarding the west. indicate when funding will be available for the We need the reopening of the western rail cor- western rail corridor. ridor to give us essential railway infrastructure. The matters raised by Deputies Cowley, Gorm- When one considers the cost of a mile of the Luas ley and Costello have been selected for route, the western rail corridor makes great econ- discussion. omic sense. It would give balanced regional 723 Racist 12 May 2005. Attacks 724

[Dr. Cowley.] the near future are as follows: the rail infrastruc- development which helps the congested east ture improvements carried out under the Rail coast. It would link in nicely with Knock airport Safety Programme 2000-2004 have upgraded all which needs its \30 million investment to have key rail lines into the west to continuous welded proper facilities and be competitive and to take rail on concrete sleepers; a new rail safety prog- some of Dublin’s 17 million projected passengers. ramme is currently being rolled out which will It would help kick-start the Mayo link which include improvements to level crossings, bridges would further open up the county. I hope there and other track work on all lines; the rail re-sig- will be an announcement soon and that Mayo and nalling project, known as the mini CTC, on the its neighbouring counties will not be put on the Dublin-Galway line was completed in June 2003 backburner as usual. This is a plea to put the with the immediate effect of significant journey money up front for the western rail corridor to time reductions on services; the Sligo line is on ensure Mayo will not be the last of the Mohicans target for completion of its re-signalling project as usual but the first to get funding. later this year and similar time savings will benefit users of that line; re-signalling work on the West- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I thank port and Ballina lines will begin in early 2006 with Deputy Cowley for raising this issue. Deputies a completion date of 2007; because of the infra- will recall that in June 2004 the then Minister for structure upgrading, Irish Rail is now in a posi- Transport, Deputy Brennan, set up the western tion to concentrate on introducing better timeta- rail corridor working group under the chairman- bling and more frequent services with new ship of Mr. Pat McCann, chief executive, Jurys improved rolling stock; with the arrival this year Doyle Hotel Group. of new rolling stock to replace old stock and to The establishment of the working group was expand the fleet, rail passengers in the west can primarily intended to provide a forum where expect to see additional improvements in ser- those individuals and organisations who had long vices; this year Irish Rail expects to take delivery been promoting the idea of the western rail corri- of 36 DMU railcars and most of these are due dor could put their arguments directly to the to be allocated to the Sligo route to replace life- chairman and debate the issues with Irish Rail, expired rolling stock and to increase frequency CIE, the Department of Transport and all the and capacity; an order for a fleet of 120 new other interested parties. InterCity railcars has been placed by Irish Rail. Within the past 48 hours I have received from These will enter service from 2007 onwards and Mr. McCann the report of the chairman of the will operate on the Galway, Westport and Ballina working group. I thank him and the other routes. At that point Irish Rail will be able to members of the group for their work on this pro- provide two-hourly services on the Galway line cess. In the time available I have not had the and increased frequencies on the Westport and opportunity to study the report in detail, but it is Ballina lines. clear that Mr. McCann has a positive disposition All these investments testify to this Govern- towards the restoration of the western rail corri- ment’s commitment to balanced regional dor; a position that I have always maintained. development in the west and to delivering the The arrival of the report this week is timely infrastructure that will make such development as it affords me the opportunity to consider its a reality. proposals in the context of the preparation of the Mr. McCann’ s report will be examined in the multi-annual capital investment framework for context of the Government’s record on delivering transport currently under way within my Depart- balanced regional development in the west and as ment. I have already asked my departmental part of the process of finalising the multi-annual officials to urgently examine Mr. McCann’s investment framework for transport. It is in that report to ensure that it is fully appraised in process that decisions will be made on the future advance of the finalisation of the framework. It is of the western rail corridor. in that process that decisions will be made on the future of the western rail corridor. Racist Attacks. The Deputy refers to the western rail corridor in the context of balanced regional development Mr. Gormley: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for and I am in agreement with him. The concept of giving me the opportunity to raise this important balanced regional development is integral to the matter. core objectives of the national spatial strategy This week, while speaking to constituents in and this Government is fully committed to the Portobello area, I was informed about the achieving such development in the west through spraying of racist graffiti on Jewish sites in the record capital investment in all sectors but pri- area. I took note of the complaint and I hoped to marily the transport sector. This is particularly investigate the matter further but yesterday while the case with regard to investment in public trans- walking through the same area I was astonished port infrastructure and services. to see graffiti on a house in Bloomfield Avenue, Some of the more significant rail projects car- which had been the subject of a previous incident. ried out in the west in recent times or planned for I was informed the attack had occurred the night 725 Racist 12 May 2005. Attacks 726 previously at approximately 3.30 a.m.and that a and that the perpetrators are brought to justice number of Jewish landmarks in the Portobello very quickly. area and beyond had been targeted. Among them There is adequate legislation to pursue them was the Jewish Museum on Walworth Road. In and if there is not, I ask the Minister to inform most instances a swastika had been sprayed on the House of any loopholes in the legislation. the wall and sometimes if the culprit had time, an These people are guilty of incitement to hatred SS sign was added for good measure. We all know as well as defacing property. History tells us that that graffiti is unsightly and costs a fair amount the Nazis moved from Kristallnacht to Aryan of money to remove, but this vandalism has much purity laws to the Holocaust in a short space of more sinister undertones. This is naked racism, time. There can be no complacency about this anti-Semitism and even neo-Nazism raising its matter. To ignore these incidents is to ignore the head. It simply cannot be tolerated in a civilised Jewish victims of Nazi terror. and democratic society. The Garda and the Minister for Justice, Minister of State at the Department of Trans- Equality and Law Reform, in whose constituency port (Mr. Callely): I thank the Deputy for raising this took place must take these incidents this matter on the Adjournment. I am deputising seriously. I understand this is the third such inci- this evening for the Minister for Justice, Equality dent in a short period. It was well planned and and Law Reform who is unable to be present due calmly executed, probably to coincide with VE to other commitments. day and the liberation of the concentration camps The Minister has condemned in the strongest in Nazi Germany. Only recently we heard the possible terms the disgusting and cowardly van- moving testimonies of members of the Irish Jew- dalism and daubing of Jewish landmarks in south- ish community who had suffered in the concen- east Dublin in the past 48 hours. He has sought tration and death camps. Their message for a and received assurances from the Garda Sı´ocha´na future generation was clear, we cannot afford to that this disgraceful and anti-Semitic activity will forget the Holocaust or its victims because unless be fully investigated and that the perpetrators, if we are vigilant, history could at some time repeat detected, will be prosecuted with the utmost itself. Clearly there is still a small number of devi- vigour. ant individuals who support the racial policies of The Minister has spearheaded the Govern- the Third Reich and it is they, I believe, who were ment’s drive to combat anti-Semitism by means responsible for this anti-Semitic graffiti. of the Holocaust memorial day, an event funded There has been some suggestion that Muslim by his Department and in which he plays a public extremists could have been responsible. role each year. Dublin’s Jewish community will However, I do not believe this to be the case. I receive every protection against this kind of have spoken to members of the Muslim com- behaviour and the Garda will protect its land- munity and they not only condemn such action marks as appropriate. but see it as entirely counter-productive to their On 10-11 May 2005, the Jewish Museum on own cause in Palestine. Walworth Road, Dublin 8, was vandalised. The My constituents wish to see an end to these Garda at Kevin Street station have commenced incidents. The Portobello area is a beautiful part an investigation and all resources required by the of Dublin consisting of terraced houses, which investigating officers to identify and apprehend used to be a Jewish neighbourhood many years the culprits responsible are being made available. ago. It retains many Jewish landmarks and this Previous similar type incidents of vandalism at gives the area its distinctive appeal. Some people the same location have occurred during the past have informed me that neo-Nazi stickers have six months and are the subject of ongoing investi- appeared in the Camden Street area and white gation by the Garda Sı´ocha´na. All patrolling supremacist leaflets were also distributed. The gardaı´ from Kevin Street station are devoting rise of racist groups, even if they are a small min- extra attention to the area with a view to bringing ority of people, should be a matter of concern for about a cessation of these acts of vandalism. all of us. The Ireland we all grew up in has The manifestations of such a mentality must be changed enormously. Ireland and particularly the dealt with in legislation. area around Portobello and the South Circular The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act Road has become multicultural. These immi- 1989 created an offence of publishing grants have contributed enormously to our econ- 5 o’clock or distributing material or using omy and they add to the variety and vibrancy of words or behaviour that are threat- the locality. The majority of Irish people have ening, abusive or insulting and are intended or welcomed them. It is up to the political leaders to are likely to stir up hatred. I understand the Act ensure that political racism does not raise its ugly is working well. “Hatred” is defined as hatred head and gain a foothold in any community. It against a group of persons in the State or else- should be nipped in the bud, as quickly as poss- where on account of their race, colour, national- ible. I am calling on the Minister today to ensure ity, religion, ethnic or national origins, member- that priority is given to these incidents and that ship of the Travelling community or sexual they are not simply ignored as minor incidents orientation. Public incitement to racial hatred is 727 Prison 12 May 2005. Service 728

[Mr. Callely.] attention to the area concerned with a view to a criminal offence under sections 2 and 3 of the bringing about a cessation of these incidents of Act in terms of material, written or oral, which is vandalism. We all wish the Garda success in this threatening, abusive or insulting. regard. The Garda authorities, conscious of the import- The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law ance of the recording and monitoring of incidents Reform, Deputy McDowell, will not tolerate that are motivated by anti-Semitism, racism, sec- attacks on members of minorities in our society, tarianism, homophobia and xenophobia have, and the same is true for all Members of this since October 2002, through the Garda PULSE House, including me. Our society has no place for computer system, put in place a mechanism to people who carry out this type of crime. Graffiti record and gather information on racist incidents writers, when apprehended, are arrested and and offenders nationwide. Furthermore, the charged under the Criminal Damage Act 1991. Garda racial and intercultural office, which was established in 2001, co-ordinates, monitors and Prison Service. advises on all aspects of policing in the area of Mr. Costello: I refer to the motion on the ethnic and cultural diversity. Personnel in that Adjournment raised by Deputy Gormley, with office monitor all incidents to ensure the PULSE which I entirely agree. Three weeks ago in the system accurately records all such offences. Kevin Street area, an attack occurred on a young ´ ´ Where such incidents occur, the Garda Sıochana gay man who is still in a coma and subsequent ensures that an investigation is pursued with ref- attacks on members of the gay community have erence mainly to the Criminal Justice (Public occurred within that jurisdiction. It is possible Order) Act 1994 and the Prohibition of Incite- that a particular group is involved in racism and ment to Hatred Act 1989, these being the main attacks on the gay community. It would be worth- relevant legislative instruments pertaining to while for the Minister for Justice, Equality and crime of this type. Law Reform to investigate the matter. More generally, and underpinning the Govern- The crisis in the prison system is out of control ment’s commitment to accommodate and respect and I cannot remember when we last had such a cultural diversity in Ireland, the Government crisis. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law published its national action plan against racism Reform was appointed three years ago, which is in January. The overall aim of the plan is to pro- the same length of time that we have had an vide strategic direction to combat racism and to industrial dispute concerning overtime for prison develop a more inclusive, intercultural society in officers. Only two weeks ago the prison officers Ireland based on commitment to inclusion by voted by two to one to reject the offer that was design, not as an add-on or an afterthought, and made, largely because of the attitude of the Mini- based on policies that promote interaction, ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and his equality of opportunity, understanding and megaphone diplomacy, but also because the offer respect. The steering group monitoring the imple- made was very inflexible, which could have been mentation of the action plan is looking at protec- remedied if it had been presented in a proper tion issues, protection being one of the five pillars fashion. of the plan. The first meeting of the group takes For the past three years the Minister has been place next week and I am sure it will consider trying to save \60 million. In that time he has these sinister developments in light of its created mayhem and chaos, and the Prison Ser- ongoing work. vice is out of control as a result of his action. He One of the key objectives of the plan is to pro- has closed down three prisons, Fort Mitchel in vide effective protection and redress against Spike Island, the Curragh Prison and Shanganagh racism, including a focus on discrimination, Castle. They have all been lying idle in mothballs threatening behaviour and incitement to hatred. for 18 months, with 300 to 400 prison spaces, Clearly the Garda Sı´ocha´na has a very important which otherwise could have been used. At the role in this and it has done considerable work, same time the Minister has paid ten times the including the establishment of the Garda racial market value for land in north County Dublin for and intercultural office, the appointment of 145 a proposed prison to replace Mountjoy. ethnic liaison gardaı´ and the development of In the meantime in his reports of this year and training methods for policing a more diverse last year the inspector of prisons slated the qual- society. ity of the prison system. He described the appal- The local community and ethnic liaison officer ling conditions that operate in Irish prisons to the for the Portobello area is attached to Kevin Street extent that he has called for the closure not only Garda station. He is assisted by the dedicated of Mountjoy, but also of Limerick and Cork officer for the St. Kevin’s neighbourhood watch prisons. The overcrowding in Cork Prison is such area, which was established in 1987. The duties of that it contains double the number of prisoners this dedicated officer include attendance at that it should. Every prison is overcrowded monthly meetings with members of the neigh- because of the Minister’s policy of closing down bourhood watch scheme. The Minister has been prisons. He now proposes going a step further to informed by the Garda authorities that all patrol- punish prison officers for rejecting his inflexible ling gardaı´ in the area are devoting extra special offer and his megaphone diplomacy by privatising 729 Prison 12 May 2005. Service 730 the prison escort service, as proposed in a Bill just build a new southern prison at Spike Island to published. This is outrageous behaviour. He now replace the antiquated Cork Prison. Furthermore, proposes to close down two more prisons, Shel- work is under way to complete the introduction ton Abbey and Loughan House, and turn them of humane special observation cells in all prisons, into private institutions requiring more people to doing away with the former practice of distressed be recruited and paid. prisoners being kept in padded cells. The Mini- The Minister is presiding over a Prison Service ster will publish new prison rules in the coming that is out of control. His ego has decided that weeks which will allow for mandatory drug test- city hall will not be defeated, which is his attitude ing and the enforcement of drug-free prisons. to prison staff. This represents a red rag to a bull. Furthermore, there is no question of the Mini- Instead of engaging in diplomacy in industrial ster having any personal dispute with prison relations he is using confrontation. The Minister officers. The Minister, Deputy McDowell, and I should get a grip of himself and recognise that he have the height of admiration and respect for the is more than half way through his term in office. dedication and commitment of prison officers in Throughout those three years we have had a crisis the delivery of their very challenging duties. It in the prison service. We again have a revolving has long been recognised that the huge levels of door system, with prisoners being released early expenditure on overtime in prisons are not sus- because of lack of places for them. Prison services tainable and must be reduced. Unfortunately, such as education cannot proceed because of when the Labour Party was last in government, it doubling up in most cells. This means that we did absolutely nothing to tackle this problem, have a worse prison service than we had in the which diverts much-needed funds from important last century, which is reflected in the recently projects such as prisoner rehabilitation prog- published report of the inspector of prisons, rammes and an accelerated prisons building Dermot Kinlen. programme. While I hope I will not need to raise this issue Since the Minister took office in 2002, he has again, I fear I will need to do so. I would not be allowed ample space and time for a mutually surprised if by the time the Government reaches acceptable negotiated settlement to be reached the end of its term of office, in addition to the between the Irish Prison Service and the Prison three prisons the Minister has already closed Officers Association. Following the rejection of down and the two he is about to close, one or two the earlier offer in October 2003, he agreed to more are closed down. He frequently claims to be use the full range of industrial relations machin- doing wonderful things to modernise the Prison ery available in the State, including the concili- Service when in reality he is putting it back to the ation services of the Labour Relations Com- Stone Age. mission and the ultimate arbitration facilities of the Civil Service Arbitration Board. That process Mr. Callely: I thank the Deputy for raising the continued over a 16-month period and involved issue and I will ask my colleague, the Minister for long and difficult negotiations, leading to a sub- Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy stantial arbitration award recommendation. The McDowell, to take on board his concern regard- deal included an 8% pensionable arbitration ing attacks on members of the gay community allowance and the payment of a lump sum of and pursue the matter with his officials. \13,750. The Deputy referred to a three-year crisis in Unfortunately, the members of the Prison the prison system. There has been no three-year Officers Association did not follow the recom- crisis in the Prison Service. Indeed, since taking mendation of their own executive and decided to office, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law reject the proposal for organisational change in Reform, Deputy McDowell, has overseen signifi- the Prison Service. It must be clearly understood cant positive developments in it. New prison that no Minister can be in the business of renego- accommodation has been completed in Limerick tiating a proposal for organisational change which and work is under way at Portlaoise. Despite has already been arbitrated upon by the Civil Ser- Deputy Costello’s objection, the Minister is going vice Arbitration Board — perhaps Deputy ahead with his project to replace Mountjoy Prison Costello thinks that he should. with a new and modern prison complex in north County Dublin. Deputy Costello’s preference to Mr. Costello: He could have made it far more have the current Mountjoy Prison refurbished flexible. would cost in the region of \418 million. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy, please allow the Mr. Costello: He has paid that ten times over Minister of State to continue. already. Mr. Callely: I gather that he would not do so An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Minister of either. Anyone who believes that there is another State to continue. His time is limited. forum beyond the Civil Service Arbitration Board where something extra may be gained is Mr. Callely: A site for a new prison campus to not living in the real world. We cannot compro- replace the Mountjoy complex has been pur- mise the integrity of the whole industrial relations chased. Deputy McDowell is also planning to process, which has served us so well and must 731 The 12 May 2005. Adjournment 732

[Mr. Callely.] An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister’s time is continue to serve our public services in future. As concluded. the Deputy knows, the arbitration process is the Mr. Callely: The two Prison Service open end of the line. centres at Loughan House and Shelton Abbey The Minister has never made a secret of the will close, one in October and the other in Nov- consequences of failure to reach an agreement, ember 2005. It is important to record that the and he was left with no option but to proceed Minister intends to replace them with open immediately with the agenda approved by the centres for persons on temporary or early release Government to ensure that the Prison Service is from prison, and they will be managed and run as efficiently and cost-effectively as possible. operated outside the Irish Prison Service. He That agenda is now in place and steps to plans to expand the new open centres by up to implement it are under way. 50%. Staff serving in those institutions will be Both the Curragh and Fort Mitchel places of redeployed permanently at that time to other detention are closed and will not reopen. institutions. As I am out of time, might the rest of my speech be recorded in the Official Report? Mr. Costello: That is a disgrace. An Ceann Comhairle: No, that is possible only Mr. Callely: The staff that remained in those with questions, not matters on the Adjournment. institutions following their mothballing last year Mr. Callely: In that case, I will be happy to pro- have been notified of their transfer to other insti- vide more detail to Deputy Costello should he tutions and arrangements are well advanced for so wish. the permanent redeployment of all staff tempor- arily reassigned from the Curragh and Fort The Da´il adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. Mitchel. on Tuesday, 17 May 2005. 733 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 734

Written Answers. My officials would also have daily correspon- dence and contact with the CIE group of compan- ies and meetings between my officials and the ———— operating companies take place on a regular basis. The following are questions tabled by Members for written response and the ministerial replies received from the Departments [unrevised]. Airport Development Projects. 12. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- Questions Nos. 1 to 9, inclusive, answered port his plans in regard to the future of Aer orally. Lingus with particular reference to the likely ownership of the second terminal at Dublin Air- Rail Accidents. port; if it is intended to provide a rapid rail trans- 10. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Trans- port service to relieve traffic congestion in the port the investigation being held into the circum- vicinity of the airport; and if he will make a state- ment on the matter. [15652/05] stances in which a train travelling on 1 April 2005 between Rosslare and Dublin split in two, in view 20. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Trans- of the possible safety consequences; and if he will port if he will report on the discussions he had make a statement on the matter. [15556/05] with the Dublin Airport Authority and other bodies in respect of the optimal location for a Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I assume second terminal at Dublin Airport; the studies the Deputy is referring to an incident which took which he or the DAA has commissioned in this place on 6 April 2005. regard; and his views on this matter. [15669/05] The Interim Railway Safety Commission has already been in contact with Iarnro´ dE´ ireann 51. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Trans- about this incident and will monitor closely the port the position with regard to the development company’s internal inquiry. of a second terminal at Dublin Airport; if pro- If this monitoring reveals issues of importance posals have been brought to Cabinet on this issue; to railway safety, the Interim Railway Safety when a final decision will be taken; his views on Commission will take appropriate action. whether the second terminal should be owned by In the meantime, pending the outcome of its the Dublin Airport Authority; the reason it has internal inquiries, I understand that Iarnro´ d taken so long to reach a decision on this matter; E´ ireann has taken the railcar sets in question out and if he will make a statement on the matter. of service and has locked the doors between simi- [15571/05] lar railcar sets. This will prevent any accidental 139. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- falls from a divided train and ensure that passen- port the way in which it is proposed to provide ger safety is assured in the unlikely event of a the required competition at Dublin Airport in the further such train divide. future for landing and handling facilities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Ministerial Meetings. [15863/05] 11. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Trans- 140. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- port the communications he has had with the port his preferred option for the provision of a board of CIE since taking office; the number of second terminal at Dublin Airport; if this should meetings he has had with board members of CIE; be independent or under present ownership; and the written communication which has passed if he will make a statement on the matter. between his Department and CIE since his taking [15864/05] office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15584/05] 141. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- port the number of terminals required at Dublin Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Since tak- Airport; and if he will make a statement on the ing office I have met with the Chairman of CIE matter. [15865/05] on a number of occasions to discuss major devel- opments affecting the CIE Group. Matters raised 142. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- during the course of these meetings would port when agreement will be reached at Govern- include issues of a general strategic and financial ment in relation to the provision of extra terminal nature. I also have regular informal conversations facilities at Dublin Airport; and if he will make a with the chairman. A meeting with the full board statement on the matter. [15866/05] of CIE is scheduled for the 1 June 2005. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose In addition, in accordance with the Code of to take Questions Nos. 12, 20, 51 and 139 to 142, Practice for the Governance of State Bodies, the inclusive, together. chairman of CIE submits a comprehensive report I have already dealt in detail with the position with the company’s annual report and accounts in regard to the provision of additional terminal outlining all significant developments affecting capacity at Dublin Airport in my earlier reply the body in the preceding year and major issues today to Priority Questions Nos. 2 and 4. likely to arise in the short to medium term. 735 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 736

[Mr. Cullen.] last July for an integrated rail network in the With regard to Aer Lingus, as one of the main greater Dublin area. customers of Dublin Airport, Aer Lingus’ oper- In the light of the announcement by the Mini- ational requirements will have to be taken into ster for Finance in his Budget Statement of agree- account by whoever owns and manages the new ment in principle to a ten year capital investment terminal. envelope for transport, work is under way in my I am very anxious, in the interests of the airline Department on a ten year transport investment and the Irish economy generally, to achieve clar- framework. ity on the future of Aer Lingus as soon as poss- An outline of the investment framework is cur- ible. Aer Lingus must be provided with the flexi- rently under consideration by a Cabinet commit- bility to grow and compete on a level playing tee. I will bring proposals to Government in due field. To fund growth and to provide financial course once the Cabinet committee has con- security, Aer Lingus must have access to the full cluded its work. range of funding mechanisms and equity capital Rail Network. is a crucial element in that mix. 13. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for In that context, the Government will be making Transport the amount of funding allocated by his a decision shortly on the necessary arrangements Department and drawn down by Irish Rail for the to be put in place to facilitate investment in Aer purchase of rolling stock each year from 1997 to Lingus. date; if Irish Rail is seeking funding from his On the matter of providing rapid rail transport Department for the purchase of additional rolling services to Dublin Airport, the programme for stock; if so, the purpose for which it is seeking Government contains a specific commitment to funding; the lines this rolling stock will service; develop a metro for Dublin with a link to and if he will make a statement on the matter. Dublin Airport. [15502/05] The Railway Procurement Agency has submit- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): In total ted to my Department a detailed business case my Department provided some \214.12 million to for a metro from the city centre to Dublin Air- Iarnro´ dE´ ireann for the purchase of rolling stock port while Iarnro´ dE´ ireann submitted proposals in the period 1999-2004 as follows:

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

\m \m \m \m \m \m 15.41 23.56 4.4 62.52 88.28 19.94

No funding was provided to Iarnro´ dE´ ireann for ments are being considered in the context of the this purpose in 1997 and 1998. multi-annual capital investment framework for My Department is currently funding a prog- transport, which is being finalised in my Depart- ramme of further rolling stock expansion involv- ment at present. ing the purchase of: 36 diesel multiple units, DMUs, which will come into service in late 2005- Proposed Legislation. early 2006 and will increase the passenger carry- 14. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Trans- ing capacity on the Dublin outer suburban system port his views on the recent consultants report and the Dublin to Sligo line; 80 diesel railcars, commissioned by his Department on the pro- which are already in service and are being used posed driver testing and standards authority; if he on the Dublin outer suburban system; 36 DART will act on its recommendations; if this report will carriages, which are already in service and which be published; and if he will make a statement on have brought the DART fleet up to a total of 156 the matter. [15504/05] units or just short of double the initial fleet of 80; 67 intercity carriages to be used on the Dublin to Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The Cork route and which will be in service by mid- report by consultants Farrell Grant Sparks, FGS, 2006; and 120 regional railcars which will be used concerned the organisational structure for the on the Dublin to Ballina, Westport, Galway, proposed driver testing and standards authority. Limerick, Tralee and Waterford lines. The The report will assist in the process of setting up addition of these new units will see the removal the authority as the establishment of the auth- from service of all older rolling stock and the pro- ority will require detailed consultation and nego- vision of clock face timetabling on all intercity tiations with staff representatives and the report’s routes. These units are due to be delivered in recommendations are an important input into 2007. Funding of some \55 million has been allo- this process. cated from my Department’s 2005 Estimate for A significant recommendation of the report is rolling stock. that additional functions in the general area of There are no specific allocations before my road safety should be assigned to the authority. I Department at present for rolling stock acquis- have indicated during the course of the Second ition. However, longer term rolling stock require- Stage debate on the Driver Testing and Standards 737 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 738

Authority Bill 2004 that it is my intention to 50. Mr. English asked the Minister for Trans- amend the Bill on Committee Stage to provide port the elements of future transport infrastruc- for the assignment of additional functions to the ture he views as a priority in relation to his antici- authority. A copy of the FGS report will be avail- pated ten year transport infrastructure strategy; able on my Department’s website shortly. the advice he is receiving on the aspects of this strategy which should be prioritised; if any one Rail Network. body is ensuring that the forthcoming strategy will be fully integrated; his views on any possible 15. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for conflicts of interest between possible road and Transport when a decision will be made on the rail infrastructure projects; and if he will make a proposed western rail corridor; and if he will statement on the matter. [15497/05] make a statement on the matter. [15557/05] 133. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for 41. Mr. English asked the Minister for Trans- Transport when he expects to announce his new port when the feasibility study on the western rail ten year transport plan; and if he will make a corridor will be published; his views on recent statement on the matter. [15773/05] media leaks on the recommendations contained in this study; and if he will make a statement on Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose the matter. [15498/05] to take Questions Nos. 16, 48, 50 and 133 together. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose The transport investment framework will build to take Questions Nos. 15 and 41 together. on the work already completed under the trans- The working group to examine the proposal to port element of the NDP. It will also take account reopen the western rail corridor was established of the work already done on investment priorities by my predecessor, Deputy Se´amus Brennan, in under the current capital envelope to end 2009 June last year. The chairman of the group, Mr. and of the various strategic studies already com- Pat McCann, chief executive of Jurys Doyle pleted by my Department and its agencies, Hotel Group, submitted a report to me within the including A Platform for Change, the Strategic last 48 hours. Rail Review and the National Road Needs Study. In the time available I have not had the oppor- More specifically, my Department has engaged tunity to study the report in detail yet but it is with Co´ ras Iompair E´ ireann, the Railway Pro- clear that Mr. McCann has a positive disposition curement Agency, the National Roads Authority towards the restoration of the western rail corri- and the Dublin Transportation Office in order to dor; a position that I have always maintained. I identify the broad direction and priorities under should clarify, however, that this is not a feasi- the investment framework. bility study; it is a report written by Mr. McCann It is a fundamental requirement that in so based on the deliberations of the working group. doing we propose an integrated solution to the I have no knowledge of or views on media leaks transport challenges facing us and not merely a in relation to this subject. sectoral response. The arrival of the report this week is very An outline of the draft investment framework timely as it affords me the opportunity to con- is currently under active consideration by the sider its proposals in the context of the prep- Cabinet Committee on Infrastructure, Housing aration of the multi-annual capital investment and PPPs. I intend to bring proposals to Govern- framework for transport currently under way ment in due course once the Cabinet committee has concluded its work and I have fully con- within my Department. sidered the advice of the Attorney General in I have asked my officials to urgently examine relation to the implications of the strategic Mr. McCann’s report to ensure that it is fully environmental assessment directive. appraised in advance of the finalisation of the It is not possible to outline the specifics of the framework. It is in that process that decisions will draft framework pending the completion of its be made in relation to the future of the western consideration by the Cabinet committee and a rail corridor. decision by the Government. However, the broad direction is expected to be along the following Road Network. lines: completion of the major inter-urban motor- 16. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for ways by 2010 and the upgrading of the rest of Transport the way in which his anticipated ten the national road network over the period of the year transport infrastructure plan will interface framework; transformation of the transport with the existing programme of work outlined system in the greater Dublin area, with a part- under the NDP; and if he will make a statement icular focus on the public transport network; com- on the matter. [15501/05] pletion of the renewal of the national rail net- work, with a major focus on the provision of 48. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Transport enhanced services; upgrading of the public trans- the progress of the Government’s consideration port services in provincial cities and in the of the ten year transport investment programme; regions; addressing the management of the when a decision will be made; and if he will make demand for transport; ensuring the accessibility a statement on the matter. [15552/05] of the public transport system to people with dis- 739 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 740

[Mr. Cullen.] work for further major capital expenditure on the abilities; and mainstreaming the rural transport capital’s transport system. The Dublin Transpor- initiative into the transport investment tation Office is also working on a demand man- programme. agement strategy for the greater Dublin area, which is an essential complement to the invest- Question No. 17 answered with Question ment programme. No. 6. 19. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for ´ Public Transport. Transport when Bus Atha Cliath will have the new buses promised under the national develop- 18. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for ment plan delivered; the reason for not funding Transport the measures in the short and longer the planned fleet expansion; and the communi- term he intends to take to tackle the problem of cation his Department has had with Dublin Bus growing commuting times revealed in a recent on the matter. [15585/05] DTO survey examining the length of journey times into Dublin’s city centre; and if he will Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Significant make a statement on the matter. [15486/05] investment has been made to date under the Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The national development plan in acquiring new Dublin Transportation Office’s A Platform for buses for Dublin Bus. As a consequence, the Change provides the transport-planning frame- capacity of the fleet has been increased by nearly work for the development of the transport system 25% and the company is now carrying approxi- in the greater Dublin area up to 2016 and is being mately 150 million passengers per annum. used by my Department to guide investment Approximately 400 buses have been purchased decisions under the current five year capital by Dublin Bus since 1999 with the assistance of envelope and the preparation of a ten year trans- Exchequer and EU funds. port investment framework. Funding under the national development plan Major increases in the capacity of the public involves a combination of Exchequer, EU and transport system are being delivered: (1) DART CIE’s own resources in delivering on the objec- capacity has almost doubled since 2000; (2) 80 tives contained in the plan. new diesel railcars were introduced earlier this I understand the company intends to purchase 70 new buses in 2005. The Exchequer is providing year on suburban commuter services and a \ further 36 are to be delivered next year; (3) the a sum of 1.2 million in part funding of these peak capacity of Dublin Bus has increased by buses. over 25%; (4) Bus E´ ireann has increased its ser- In addition to the significant Exchequer invest- vices by around 40% from commuter towns, such ment in Dublin Bus in recent years, there has also as Drogheda, Navan and Naas, to the city centre; been significant investment made to date under (5) to facilitate buses, my Department is funding the NDP in other modes such as Luas, suburban a major programme to expand the quality bus rail lines and the DART. In light of the significant corridor network and improve traffic manage- expansion of rail capacity and considering demo- ment in the greater Dublin Area; and (6) the graphic changes in the city, the management of Luas is now in operation on the Sandyford green Dublin Bus is examining whether capacity on cer- line and on the Tallaght Red line and on schedule tain corridors might be better utilised to meet to carry 20 million passengers in its first full year growing demand elsewhere. I am awaiting the of operation. Work is continuing on the DART outcome of this review. I do, however, foresee an upgrade project, phase 2 of which will deliver a expansion in the bus market in the greater Dublin area in the coming years, involving participation further increase in capacity. Planning of the ´ Kildare route project is also continuing, with a by Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and private oper- railway order application expected later this year. ators. In this regard, my Department is currently The completion of the M50, the port tunnel and in discussions with the parties concerned on the the M50 upgrade will provide substantial appropriate framework to give effect to such additions to the city’s strategic road network. expansion. The Dublin Transportation Office also co- operates closely with the planning authorities to Question No. 20 answered with Question influence land use policies and planning decisions No. 12. to favour more sustainable forms of transport at Road Safety. the planning stage. This is being achieved through integrated land use and transportation plans at 21. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Trans- local level and an input on major planning appli- port his views on the recent EuroRAP report on cations and appeals which are of strategic trans- the state of Ireland’s roads; his further views on port importance. All of this is being done with the whether poor road conditions are a contributory spatial planning context provided by the national factor to the deaths of many persons in car acci- spatial strategy and the regional planning dents; the efforts he will make to improve the guidelines. particular stretches of road that have been high- My Department is working on a ten year trans- lighted in this report; and if he will make a state- port investment plan which will set the frame- ment on the matter. [15580/05] 741 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 742

Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The aim the time of their original appointment should be of EuroRAP is to improve road safety by paid the balance of their directors’ fees which assessing risks and identifying shortcomings on would otherwise have been payable to them had national road networks across Europe that can be they completed their terms of office. addressed with practical road improvement Aside from that specific arrangement, the measures. This is a commendable goal and I approval of my predecessor was not sought or therefore welcome the publication of their recent given for the severance terms of the outgoing act- report on the state of Ireland’s major national ing chief executive which, I understand, were in roads. I note that the NRA made a very substan- the context of her contract as deputy chief execu- tial contribution to the preparation of this report. tive. Nor was my predecessor’s approval sought The EuroRAP report found that the safety per- for the severance terms of the other members or formance of the Irish major road network is executives of the former Aer Rianta Board prior broadly the same as other countries that they to its replacement by the Dublin Airport Auth- have studied, namely, the Netherlands, Britain ority on 1 October last year. and Sweden. The average fatal collision rate on I understand from the Dublin Airport Auth- Ireland’s motorways shows that they are about as ority that all directors on the new board of that safe as those in Britain. The British rate is only authority have been fully briefed on the relevant slightly higher than in Sweden and the Nether- provisions of the guidelines for State bodies, com- lands but all are lower than the rate in Spain. panies and ethics legislation and made fully aware In general the safest types of roads are typically of the business code of ethics. motorways but, because there are currently rela- tively fewer miles of motorway in Ireland than Ministerial Meetings. other countries, there are fewer sections of the safest category — low risk — road in Ireland than 23. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Transport in the other countries studied. However, this will the communications he has had with the National change with the substantial investment we are Roads Authority since taking office; the number making in improving our national road network of meetings he has had with members of the auth- over the next few years — over \8 billion will be ority; the written communication which has spent on the network over the period 2005-09. I passed between his Department and the authority expect there to be a very significant road safety since his taking office; and if he will make a state- dividend associated with this increased ment on the matter. [15582/05] investment. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I have met Furthermore, the NRA is already working on members of the board and staff of the National addressing many of the specific deficiencies iden- Roads Authority, NRA, on a number of tified by the EuroRAP report. This year alone occasions since taking up office as Minister for almost \54 million will be spent by the NRA on Transport. I met with the entire board on 10 road maintenance and \40 million will be spent May 2004. on a range of road safety measures. There is very regular correspondence and liai- However, I must emphasise that behavioural son between my Department and the NRA in issues and not road conditions continue to be the single biggest contributory factor to road colli- relation to the national roads programme includ- sions. Analysis of factors contributing to fatal and ing, in particular, in relation to the drawdown of injury accidents in 2002 indicate that driver grants, progress in the implementation of the behaviour, 86%, and pedestrian behaviour, national roads programme both overall and at 9.7%, are the key contributory factors, whereas regional and project level, NRA staffing and road factors were identified as contributory future planning of the roads development factors in only 2.5% of fatal and serious accident programme. collisions. Road Network. Semi-State Bodies. 24. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for 22. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Transport Transport if, in the consideration of the cost of a if his approval was sought for the full package of buy-out of the M50 toll bridge, a full cost benefit financial measures for the former executives and analysis has been carried out; if so, if factors such directors of Aer Rianta; his views on whether as accident rates, diversion rates and consequent such levels of compensation were appropriate; damage to minor roads or the cost of congestion and if he will make a statement on the matter. have been factored in; and if he will make a state- [15572/05] ment on the matter. [15484/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Minis- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The statu- terial approval in respect of payments to former tory power to levy tolls on national roads, make Aer Rianta board members related to certain toll bye-laws and enter into toll agreements with cases involving the premature termination of private investors in respect of national roads is their terms of office. It was agreed by my prede- vested in the National Roads Authority, NRA, cessor that three board members who had not under Part V of the Roads Act 1993, as amended completed their terms of office as envisaged at by the Planning and Development Act 2000. 743 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 744

[Mr. Cullen.] system can be built for less than \500 million; and The buy-out of NTR’s tolling rights at Westlink if he will make a statement on the matter. has not been considered by my Department or by [15717/05] the Government. The NRA has not submitted any proposals on the matter to my Department Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose and in the event of a buy-out arising for consider- to take Questions Nos. 26, 73 and 131 together. ation the issues referred to by the Deputy would The programme for Government contains a be taken into account as appropriate. specific commitment to develop a metro for Dublin with a link to Dublin Airport. Public Transport. The Railway Procurement Agency has submit- ted to my Department a detailed business case 25. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Trans- for a metro from the city centre to Dublin Air- port the progress made to date in the establish- port while Iarnro´ dE´ ireann submitted proposals ment of an independent public transport procure- last July for an integrated rail network in the ment and regulatory body; when this legislation greater Dublin area, including the intercon- will be published; when this body will be fully nector project. operational; and if he will make a statement on In the light of the announcement by the Mini- the matter. [15491/05] ster for Finance in his Budget Statement of agree- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Since my ment in principle to a ten year capital investment appointment last year, I have met with the man- envelope for transport, work is under way in my agement of Bus E´ ireann and Dublin Bus as well Department on a ten year transport investment as the CIE unions and ICTU and representatives framework. of the private bus industry on the reform of the An outline of the draft investment framework bus market. is currently under active consideration by the It remains my intention to establish an inde- Cabinet Committee on Infrastructure, Housing pendent national public transport procurement and PPPs. I intend to bring proposals to Govern- and regulatory body to, inter alia, procure socially ment in due course once the Cabinet committee necessary bus services, license commercial ser- has concluded its work and I have fully con- vices and regulate fares. sidered the advice of the Attorney General in Officials in my Department are continuing to relation to the implications of the strategic meet with stakeholders regarding their views on environmental assessment directive. how to reform the market. On the basis of the I can confirm that the metro and the intercon- discussions I have had with the stakeholders, I nector serve different functions. The purpose of remain hopeful that significant progress can be the metro is to provide high capacity public trans- made on an agreed framework to reform the bus port in areas of the city not currently served by market in the near future. Once agreement has rail. The purpose of the interconnector is to been reached I intend to proceed with legislation better interconnect the existing Dublin suburban as a matter of priority. rail network, relieve a bottleneck in the city centre and increase the capacity of that network. Light Rail Projects. The projected cost of the metro has been the 26. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Trans- subject of a detailed analysis by the RPA. port his views on the development of a metro However, the actual cost will ultimately be deter- system to run from Dublin’s city centre to the air- mined through a competitive tendering process. I port; his further views on whether the Irish Rail am anxious to ensure that all transport projects interconnector plan serves a different and separ- deliver value for money for the State, but I also ate function to any proposed metro system; his consider it prudent at this early stage in the further views on the opinion that a metro system development of the metro project that we evalu- can be built for less than \500 million; and if he ate it on the basis of conservative cost will make a statement on the matter. [15495/05] assumptions.

73. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- State Airports. port the position with regard to proposals for the construction of a metro system for Dublin; if new 27. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Transport proposals on this matter have come before his views on the latest annual report from Aer Cabinet; when a final decision on the metro will Lingus; when the new chief executive designate be made; and if he will make a statement on the will take up his position; and if he will make a matter. [15553/05] statement on the matter. [15574/05] 131. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I welcome Transport his views on the development of a the recently announced Aer Lingus results for metro system to run from Dublin’s city centre to 2004 which show a solid financial performance for the airport; his further views on whether the Irish the year at the operational level with an operating Rail interconnector plan serves a different and profit of \96.3 million. The provision of \102.5 separate function to any proposed metro system; million for restructuring costs gives a net profit of his further views on the opinion that a metro \1.2 million for the year. 745 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 746

Significant developments during the year 44. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Transport include further reductions in costs, the introduc- the plans being examined to increase the number tion of a new low fares strategy, the launch of the of trains that can run on the main DART and Fast Pass check-in facility at Dublin Airport and mainline rail line crossing the River Liffey in view the dramatic increase in the use of the web for of the current limit on capacity at the Loop Line bookings. The board, management and staff are ridge crossing; if he has considered the possibility to be commended for this continued turnaround of building an additional spur from the DART in the ongoing challenging environment in line on the south of the river to head via the aviation. South Docks to connect to the northside and the Looking to the future, the competitive and main northern and north western rail lines; and if changing nature of the aviation industry and the such an increase in capacity will not be provided ongoing market pressures require a continuing by the proposed Heuston to Spencer Dock rail focus by the company on cost reductions and interconnector in view of the fact that this new efficiency improvements in order to sustain a line will be at a different grade to the mainline profitable and viable operation which can take rail service at the proposed meeting point at advantage of growth opportunities. Pearse Street Station. [15658/05] Unless the focus on efficiencies and competi- tiveness continues unabated, the airline will con- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose tinue to be vulnerable to market forces and to to take Questions Nos. 28, 38 and 44 together. unexpected economic and other external shocks. Iarnro´ dE´ ireann has submitted a business case Furthermore, it will not have the necessary cost to my Department for the development of a base to support a growth strategy. It is, therefore, greater Dublin integrated rail network aimed at vital that the cost cutting measures and new work meeting the projected demand for rail services practice changes in the company’s existing busi- into the future. Included in the business case are ness plan are delivered. proposals to: construct a new rail station in the The second key essential for the future success city centre; provide an interconnector tunnel link- of Aer Lingus is that it must be provided with the ing Heuston to the Docklands; provide a spur off flexibility to grow and compete on a level playing the Maynooth line to the N3 beyond Dunboyne; field. The current situation in relation to access and expand the capacity of the DART. to capital is not sustainable and, if continued, will These proposals are being considered in the seriously restrict the airline, particularly in context of the multi-annual capital investment relation to profitable growth opportunities on framework for transport, which is being prepared long-haul routes. To fund that growth and to pro- by my Department. When the framework has vide financial security, the airline must have been approved by the Government, the imple- access to the full range of funding mechanisms menting agencies will begin more detailed plan- and equity capital is a crucial element in that mix. ning and analysis of the individual projects, In that context, the Government will be making including cost estimates and timescales. a decision shortly on the necessary arrangements I understand that, mainly for health and to be put in place to facilitate an investment environmental reasons, it is not proposed to transaction. operate diesel trains in the interconnector tunnel. Once the Government makes its decision in the As regards the DART, the signalling system in matter, consultations with all the stakeholders place at the present time means that the track will take place in relation to options for a trans- between Connolly and Pearse Stations is limited action and in relation to essential preparatory to 12 train paths per hour. I expect to receive work. from Iarnro´ dE´ ireann shortly proposals to In relation to the new chief executive desig- upgrade the signalling system, which will increase nate, I have been advised by Aer Lingus that the maximum number of trainpaths on this Dermot Mannion will be taking up the position section of track to 16 per hour. In the longer at the airline in August 2005. term, the proposed interconnector tunnel will provide a direct connection between the northern Rail Network. and south western lines, facilitate a substantial 28. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for increase in the overall capacity of the suburban Transport the analysis carried out on the possi- network and address the capacity constraints in bility of diesel trains operating on the proposed the city centre. new rail tunnel connecting Spencer Dock and 29. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for Heuston Station; the estimated cost for the build- Transport if he is satisfied with the existing rail ing on this rail interconnector; and the length of commuter connections between Athy and time it will take to deliver such a facility. Dublin’s city centre; if his attention has been [15655/05] drawn to the problems with this service; if he will 38. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Transport report on any proposals to improve transport when a decision will be made on the proposed infrastructure, particularly road and rail connec- rail interconnector for Dublin; and if he will make tions, into and out of Athy; and if he will make a a statement on the matter. [15554/05] statement on the matter. [15500/05] 747 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 748

Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The inter alia, of the national spatial strategy, the scheduling and timetabling of trains is an oper- regional planning guidelines and the planning and ational issue for Iarnro´ dE´ ireann. traffic implications of such a route for the greater I understand from Iarnro´ dE´ ireann that com- Dublin region and neighbouring regions. The muter business from Carlow and Athy to Dublin issues referred to by the Deputy will be taken is continuing to increase and the company hopes into account in these studies. to improve rail service frequency further on the route when additional rolling stock is introduced Air Services. in stages over the next three years. 32. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for The planning, design and implementation of Transport the total amount paid by his Depart- national road improvement projects is a matter ment to the Irish Aviation Authority in respect for the National Roads Authority and the local of charges due for foreign military aircraft passing authorities concerned — in this case Kildare through Irish airspace in respect of each of the County Council — under section 17(1)(a) of the past five years; the unit cost in respect of each Roads Act 1993. I have asked the NRA to pro- such aircraft; the breakdown of the nationality of vide the Deputy directly with details of national the aircraft in respect of which such charges were roads projects in the Athy area. paid; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15581/05] Road Safety. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The Irish 30. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Trans- Aviation Authority, IAA, provides air traffic con- port if he will report on the progress to date on trol and communications services to aircraft the reintroduction of height limits for heavy which pass through Irish controlled airspace — goods vehicles as promised three years ago. en-route — and aircraft landing and taking off [15668/05] from Irish airports — terminal. Only a small pro- Minister of State at the Department of Trans- portion of military flights through Irish adminis- port (Mr. Callely): In December 2004 I initiated tered airspace actually pass through Irish sover- a wide consultation process on the possible intro- eign airspace. Irish administered airspace covers duction of a maximum height standard for 450,000 square kilometres of which 83,000 square vehicles with the publication of a discussion docu- kilometres is sovereign airspace. ment and an invitation to interested parties to Under a Eurocontrol, European organisation make submissions. As outlined in the discussion for the safety of air navigation, multilateral agree- document, a range of factors of national import- ment to which Ireland is a party, various categor- ance such as business competitiveness, rail safety, ies of flights — flights under visual flight rules, environmental and quality of life issues, protec- flights performed by small aircraft, flights perfor- tion of existing infrastructure and the need for med for the transport of Heads of State and certainty in planning for future infrastructure search and rescue flights — are exempt from pay- investment have to be taken into account in con- ing en-route charges. In the case of other categor- sidering this matter. ies — military flights, training flights, flights per- Forty-one responses to the discussion docu- formed to test air navigation equipment and ment have been received in my Department. circular flights — states have the option to These are being considered at present and I exempt such flights from payment of the en-route intend to announce the outcome of this consul- charge. In common with most Eurocontrol tation very shortly. member states, Ireland exempts all such flights, including military flights of member states of Road Network. Eurocontrol, United States and Canada, from payment of the en-route charge and this arrange- 31. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Transport ment has applied since Ireland joined the Euro- the details of the proposed new outer ring road control en-route charging scheme in the early for Dublin; the efforts which will be made to 1970’s. Because of this arrangement the IAA ensure that such a ring road does not contribute costs in relation to military flights are met from to further urban sprawl; the timetable for the my Department’s Vote. research, planning, and construction of this road; From information received from Eurocontrol it the estimated cost; and if he will make a state- is understood that Austria, Finland, Switzerland ment on the matter. [15568/05] and Moldova do not currently grant exempted Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The plan- status to US military flights. However, my ning, design and implementation of national road Department understands that invoices issued by improvement projects is a matter for the National the above states to the US authorities in respect Roads Authority, NRA, and the local auth- of military flights have not been paid. orities concerned. Ireland also exempts military aircraft flights As consideration by the NRA of the proposal from payment of the communications charge — for a Dublin outer orbital route is at an early a set amount per contact — and the IAA costs in stage the information requested by the Deputy is relation to those charges are also met from my not available. The NRA is arranging to carry out Department’s Vote. Efforts to collect this charge further studies on the proposal taking account, in the early 1990’s were unsuccessful and, follow- 749 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 750 ing advice from the Attorney General, debts then not be taken as a definitive guide to the actual outstanding were written off with the agreement number of exempted flights that took place in of the Department of Finance and a decision that year. taken to cease charging the communications fee En-route charges are dependent on various to military aircraft. factors such as size and weight — this provides The total amounts, not including VAT, paid to the number of service units — which is then mul- the authority in the years 2000 to 2004 in relation tiplied by the unit rate. The unit rate is a rate set to exempted flights other than flights under visual in respect of each member state by Eurocontrol flight rules are as follows: 2000, \1,139,283; 2001, and is related to the total costs of the IAA in \1,377,560; 2002, \1,642,541; 2003, \2,148,374; providing air traffic control services as well as avi- and 2004, \3,687,933. ation-related costs of the Department and the It should be noted that payments are made to Meteorological Service. the IAA in respect of exempted flights on a The total number of en-route flights and total monthly basis in arrears and are subject to recon- number of en-route service units for the years ciliation in the following year. Therefore, the 2001 to 2004 as provided by Eurocontrol — fig- amounts paid to the IAA in any one year should ures are not available for 2000 — are as follows:

2001 2002 2003 2004

No. of Flights 6,801 8,639 12,457 9,850 No. of Units 44,438 57,491 97,928 72,531

My Department is currently collating information ownership structure and funding requirements of received from Eurocontrol and the Irish Aviation Aer Lingus; if his attention has been drawn to the Authority regarding the total number of serious concern within the company regarding the exempted communication contacts, a breakdown repeated failure to make a decision on this of those contacts by nationality and a breakdown matter; his views on whether the transport and of the exempted en-route charge by nationality. I tourism requirements of this country can best be will revert to the Deputy on completion of this met by retaining public control of Aer Lingus; work. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15573/05] Road Network. 132. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- 33. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Trans- port his plans in respect of the proceeds of any port if he has received the feasibility undertaken sale of Government shares in Aer Lingus; and if by the NRA on a possible outer ring road for he will make a statement on the matter. Dublin; if not, when it will be completed; his view [15769/05] on such a project; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15494/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose to take Questions Nos. 34, 61 and 132 together. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The plan- Since becoming Minister for Transport, my ning, design and implementation of national road focus has been to move forward to achieve clarity improvement projects, including a Dublin outer on the future of Aer Lingus as soon as possible. orbital route, is a matter for the National Roads The key driver for this is to ensure that Aer Authority, NRA, and the local authorities Lingus continues to make a valuable contribution concerned. to the economic and tourism development of the The NRA is undertaking further studies on the country. Dublin outer orbital route taking account, inter To achieve this, I believe that the airline must alia, of the national spatial strategy, the regional planning guidelines and the planning and traffic be provided with the flexibility to grow and com- implications of such a route for the greater pete on a level playing field. The current situation Dublin region and neighbouring regions. The ten- is restricting the airline, particularly in relation to dering for and selection of consultants for this profitable growth opportunities on long-haul feasibility study has commenced and the report is routes. To fund that growth and to provide finan- expected in Qtr 2, 2006. cial security, the airline must have access to the full range of funding mechanisms and equity capi- Semi-State Bodies. tal is a crucial element in that mix. As the Deputies are aware, the Government 34. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Trans- will be making a decision shortly on the necessary port if the proceeds of an eventual sale of a por- arrangements to be put in place to facilitate a tion of the State’s shareholding in Aer Lingus will capital injection in Aer Lingus. Clearly, the fund- not be reinvested into the company. [15670/05] ing needs of Aer Lingus will determine the scale, 61. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Transport nature and timing of any investment. These when a decision will be made on the future matters will be considered further once the 751 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 752

[Mr. Cullen.] drivers at peak times. The company states that Government has made its decision, appropriate this manner of operating is the most cost-effective advisers are engaged and consultations with and efficient way of providing Bus E´ ireann’s stakeholders take place. nationwide integrated network of services. As I have already indicated, the key driver for Since the start of the national development facilitating an equity injection in Aer Lingus is to plan Bus E´ ireann has purchased 391 new buses, fund growth and provide financial security. It is 65 of which are additional to the fleet. While no clear that any investment transaction involving Exchequer funding has been approved for the the issuing of new shares would ensure that the purchase of buses in 2005, the company propose proceeds would go directly to the company. to purchase a further 65 buses from its own However, the proceeds from the sale of any exist- resources this year. ing shares held by the State in the company would go to the Exchequer in line with the pro- Question No. 37 answered with Question visions of the Aer Lingus Act 2004. Decisions in No. 9. relation to these matters will be made at the appropriate time. Question No. 38 answered with Question No. 28. Rail Network. Road Network. 35. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Trans- port the position in regard to the possible opening 39. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Trans- of a rail connection between Navan and Dublin port the reports he has received on the proposed via Dunboyne; and if he will make a statement south eastern port access road in Dublin city; the on the matter. [15555/05] proposed function of such a road; and the esti- mated cost for its completion. [15662/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Iarnro´ d E´ ireann, in conjunction with Meath and Fingal Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The County Councils, recently completed a feasibility National Roads Authority, NRA, completed a study into the possibility of providing a spur off preliminary design and financial study of an the Maynooth line at Clonsilla to Pace on the N3 eastern bypass of Dublin City in 2002 and a copy beyond Dunboyne. I understand that the pro- was submitted to my Department. The further vision of a park and ride site at Pace to cater for development of the proposals will be considered Navan traffic has been included in the feasibility in the context of the multi-annual transport study. investment plan currently being prepared by my I am aware that Iarnro´ dE´ ireann is currently Department. examining the study. The next step is for Iarnro´ d Given the likely scale and cost of any proposals E´ ireann to decide if and how it wishes to proceed — \1.4 billion, 2002 prices — to undertake an with this project and I expect a report will be sub- eastern bypass, Government approval of such mitted to my Department in the near future. proposals would be required.

Public Transport. Rail Network. 36. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Trans- 40. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister port if his attention has been drawn to the fact for Transport when the proposed memorandum that Bus E´ ireann is reported to be paying up to of understanding between his Department and \70 million per year to private bus operators due Irish Rail covering punctuality, cleaner carriages to a shortage of bus capacity; if he intends to pro- and queuing times will be finalised; the way in vide additional funding to Bus E´ ireann to allow which the memorandum will operate; the penal- it to expand bus numbers; and if he will make a ties there will be for failure to meet the targets statement on the matter. [15578/05] set; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15558/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I have been informed by Bus E´ ireann that the company Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Over the paid over \71 million to sub-contractors in 2004. last two years my Department agreed with The bulk of this figure was payment to rurally Iarnro´ dE´ ireann the memoranda of understand- based private operators who were sub-contracted ing, MOU, which, as well as accounting for public to provide school transport services nationwide to expenditure, provide a reporting structure for pupils in rural areas and those with special needs. performance indicators from the company. They Bus E´ ireann is responsible for the management contain targets on service quantity and quality as and provision of the school transport scheme on well as detailed financial reporting requirements. behalf of the Department of Education and The contents of the memoranda and the targets Science. therein are agreed annually between the com- In addition, Bus E´ ireann engages private oper- pany and my Department. These memoranda will ators to augment its requirement of vehicles and in time become formal public service contracts 753 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 754 underpinned by statute as part of a package to viable future for Shannon Airport; if he is in a reform public transport. They will be externally position to ensure that such infrastructure will be audited. Failure to meet targets agreed will be upgraded in the region; and if he will make a discussed in the context of the company account- statement on the matter. [15492/05] ing for subvention and the level of subvention to Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Proposals be allocated for future years. have been made recently by the Shannon Airport Question No. 41 answered with Question Authority, Shannon Development Authority and No. 15. the Mid-West Regional Authority regarding rollout of key infrastructural projects in the Road Safety. Shannon airport catchment area. I am aware also that it is the view of the board of the Shannon 42. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Transport Airport Authority that there needs to be a comp- the steps being taken to reduce the dangers to lementary programme of this nature to underpin pedestrians and cyclists from heavy goods an independent and competitive Shannon Air- vehicles; if he will require all such vehicles to be port. Work under way in my Department on a ten fitted with blind spot mirrors to improve visibility year transport investment framework will address for drivers; and if he will make a statement on the future infrastructural requirements of the the matter. [15559/05] mid-west region. I would point out that there has Minister of State at the Department of Trans- been substantial investment in national roads in port (Mr. Callely): Developments at EU level will the Shannon region in recent years and this work result in new heavy goods vehicles, HGVs, having is ongoing. to comply with higher standards in relation to the Projects that have already been completed fields of vision of drivers. EU Directive include the N7 Limerick parkway, the N18 Bally- 2003/97/EC, which harmonises the rules relating casey to Dromoland phase 1, Newmarket-on- to the type-approval of devices for indirect vision Fergus bypass, the N18-N19 Hurlers Cross, the on motor vehicles and of vehicles equipped with N20 Croom bypass and the N20-N21 Adare- these devices, provides, inter alia, for an extension Limerick scheme. Construction has also com- of the field of vision so as to address the issue of menced on the N18 Ennis bypass. blind spots. These enhanced requirements should In addition, the N7 Dublin-Limerick route has lead to a reduction in fatalities and serious injur- already been completed to motorway-dual car- ies involving pedestrians and cyclists due to the riageway standard as far as Portlaoise and, at the driver’s inadequate field of vision. The directive Limerick end, the N7 Limerick southern ring requires all new HGVs entering into service from road, phase 1, was opened to traffic last year. The 26 January 2007 to meet the revised standards for remainder of this route will be completed to field of vision set in the directive. The directive motorway-high quality dual carriageway standard was transposed into Irish law through the Euro- over the period to 2010. The N7 Limerick south- pean Communities (Mechanically Propelled ern ring road, phase 2, which will incorporate a Vehicle Entry into Service) (Amendment) (No. tunnel under the River Shannon, is due to start 2) Regulations, which were made on 20 construction in 2006. December 2004. Subject to practical engineering These major road improvement schemes are constraints and the agreement of the European critical components of the transport infrastruc- Commission, it is my intention to also require ture of the Shannon region which will not only existing vehicles of the types covered by the improve the accessibility of the airport but also directive to be retrofitted with the necessary enhance the overall attractiveness of the region mirrors. for investment and job creation. In the meantime, I have also written to rep- As regards rail infrastructure, I met with the resentative groups the IRHA, SIMI, etc. and met Shannon Rail Link Partnership on 22 March last with the Garda Sı´ocha´na to encourage proactive to discuss the proposal for a rail link to Shannon measures be taken prior to January 2007. Also, and subsequent to that meeting Irish Rail brought drivers of mechanically propelled vehicles in a forward draft terms of reference for a feasibility public place should be aware of the statutory study. I expect that these terms of reference will requirements in road traffic law to drive with be agreed shortly following consultations by Irish reasonable consideration for other persons and Rail with the Shannon Rail Link Partnership. with due care and attention. Question No. 44 answered with Question Public Transport. No. 28. 43. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Transport Parking Regulations. the requests he has received from the board of Shannon Airport and local representatives 45. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister regarding the upgrading of transport infrastruc- for Transport if he will report on the promised ture in the Shannon region in order to secure a review of the level of fines for breaches of dis- 755 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 756

[Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin.] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I have had abled persons’ parking restrictions; the arrange- two meetings with representatives of NTR — on ments for consultation with disability groups and 17 February 2005 and 5 May 2005. Both meetings the timescale proposed for completion of this dealt with the issue of congestion at the Westlink review. [15666/05] bridge and the options for a speedy transition to barrier free tolling. In the course of both meet- Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The ings I emphasised the critical importance of mov- offence of illegally parking in a disabled persons’ ing to barrier free tolling as quickly as possible. parking bay currently comes within the scope of Following the 5 May meeting, at which NTR out- the on-the-spot fines system. The amount of the lined options for moving to open road tolling at on-the-spot fine applicable to this offence is \19, Westlink, NTR will now engage with the National which is the level that applies to the majority of Roads Authority in relation to the upgrade of parking offences. that section of the M50, including the upgrade of Where a person does not pay the on-the-spot the Westlink toll facility, operated by NTR. fine and is subsequently convicted in court of the In addition to the foregoing, my Department said offence, he or she is liable to a fine not has had contact with NTR in relation to the exceeding \800 for a first offence. The maximum \ State’s share of the Westlink toll revenues and fine for a second or subsequent offence is 1,500 with NTR and other toll operators in relation to and, in the case of a third or subsequent offence legislative changes necessary to support enforce- \ committed within a 12 month period, 1,500 and- ment of a barrier free toll regime. or a prison sentence of up to three months. The Road Traffic Act 2002 provides for the Light Rail Project. replacement of the current on-the-spot fines system by a fixed charge system. The new system 47. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for already applies to the offences of exceeding a Transport if he has received from the RPA the speed limit and non-compliance with seat belt business plans which examine the extension of regulations. The original amount of the fixed the Luas to Cherrywood and the Dublin Dock- charge will automatically increase by 50% where lands; if he will report on the recommendations payment is not made within 28 days of the date contained in these business plans; if these busi- of the original notice. ness plans will be published; and if he will make Regulations to provide for the rollout of the a statement on the matter. [15487/05] fixed charge system to the majority of traffic and 55. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Transport parking offences, including the offence of parking when the railway order process for the extension in a disabled persons’ parking bay, are currently of the Sandyford Luas line to Cherrywood will be being prepared by the Department of Transport initiated. [15659/05] in consultation with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose Sı´ocha´na. to take Questions Nos. 47 and 55 together. I indicated in the Da´il during the passage of Responsibility for the development of specific the Road Traffic Bill before Christmas that I proposals for the expansion of the Luas network intend that the level of fixed charge for the lies with the Railway Procurement Agency, RPA. The RPA is currently advancing plans for exten- offence of illegally parking in a disabled persons’ sions of Luas to the Docklands and Cherrywood parking bay will be pitched at a level that will be and my Department is awaiting business plans significantly higher than the fixed charge for from the RPA in order to assist in its evaluation other parking offences. of both extensions. Business plans are not usu- The operation of the fixed charge system is ally published. dependent on the development of a new com- Both projects will be considered at a strategic puterised processing system for the Garda. I level in the context of the multi-annual transport understand that it is expected to have the new investment framework which I am developing. A system available during the summer of 2005. draft of the multi-annual transport plan is cur- rently under consideration by the Cabinet Com- Ministerial Meetings. mittee on Infrastructure, Housing and PPPs. I will 46. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Transport bring proposals to Government in due course the communications he has had with National once the Cabinet committee has concluded its Toll Roads since taking office; the meetings he work. has had with board members or representatives Under the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) of this company; if written communication has Act 2001, the statutory approval process for any passed between his Department and this com- specific extension of the Luas network is initiated pany since his taking office; and if he will make a by an application to me by the RPA for a railway statement on the matter. [15583/05] order. I understand that such an application, in 757 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 758 respect of the Luas extension to Cherrywood, is Question No. 50 answered with Question likely to be submitted in the near future. No. 16.

Question No. 48 answered with Question Question No. 51 answered with Question No. 16. No. 12.

Aviation Strategy. Vehicle Licensing. 49. Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Trans- 52. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Trans- port if he has considered the need to contribute port if a heavy goods vehicle that recently over- to an all-Ireland strategy on aviation in view of turned at a junction on the M50, causing massive the ongoing strategic reviews of the running of traffic disruption, was unlicensed; if he has satis- airports and the ownership and funding of Aer fied that the current level of supervision and Lingus; if he has had meetings or communications checking of such vehicles is adequate; and if he with either airport authorities or airlines in the will make a statement on the matter. [15561/05] Six Counties; and if he will make a statement on Minister of State at the Department of Trans- the matter. [15587/05] port (Mr. Callely): If the Deputy could let me Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): As a have the registration number of the vehicle in result of the full liberalisation of the European question, I will advise whether the vehicle is aviation market in the 1990s, there are no longer covered by a road freight carrier’s licence issued any Government or EU controls on market by my Department. Enforcement of road freight access in the Irish aviation market. This influ- carrier licensing is undertaken by both my ences my overall approach to that market. Liber- Department and the Garda Sı´ocha´na while alisation of the European air transport sector has enforcement of the vehicle safety requirements of ensured that fares, routes and frequency of ser- the Road Traffic Acts is a matter for the Garda vices operated by carriers at all airports on the Sı´ocha´na. island of Ireland are entirely commercial decisions for each airline, in consultation with the Public Transport. relevant airport authorities. 53. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- The Government has a long-standing policy of port the number of buses in the Dublin Bus fleet assisting Derry Airport, in the interests of North- in each year from 2001; the number of additional South co-operation, and in recognition of the fact buses that will be acquired during 2005; when he that the natural catchment area of the airport intends to provide the funding promised to includes east Donegal. The Government recently acquire 150 extra buses; and if he will make a approved proposals for the allocation of capital statement on the matter. [15577/05] funding for City of Derry Airport in co-operation Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I have with the British Government. A joint funding \ been advised by Dublin Bus that the total number package totalling 15 million was approved, in of buses in its fleet for each year since 2001 is principle, in response to requests from Derry 1,062 buses. In this period, the company has City Council. replaced mini and single deck buses with higher Since 2001, my Department has been support- capacity double deck buses, thus increasing the ing scheduled air services between Derry and passenger carrying capacity of its fleet by nearly Dublin through the PSO air service programme 25%. and tender proposals for the operation of services I understand the company intends to purchase on the route for the next three years are currently 70 new replacement buses in 2005. These new being considered. buses include 20 new high capacity triaxle buses Specifically in relation to Aer Lingus, it is this which provide 20% more passenger carrying Government’s wish that the airline continues to capacity than double deck buses. Exchequer make a significant and valuable contribution to funding of \1.2 million is being provided towards the economic and tourism development of the the cost of these buses. country. Everyone would agree that it can only Dublin Bus is currently examining ways of do this if it can compete successfully, operate maximising the utilisation of the bus fleet, in light profitably and has access to a variety of funding of the significant investment made to date under sources to facilitate growth. the national development plan in other modes I am very anxious, in the interests of the airline such as Luas, suburban rail and the DART and the Irish economy, to move forward to upgrade, and I am awaiting the outcome of this achieve clarity on the future of Aer Lingus as review. soon as possible. In that context, the Government I foresee an expansion in the bus market in the will be making a decision shortly on the necessary greater Dublin area in the coming years, involv- arrangements to be put in place to facilitate an ing participation by Bus E´ ireann, Dublin Bus and investment transaction. private operators. In this regard, my Department 759 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 760

[Mr. Cullen.] Question No. 57 answered with Question is currently in discussions with the parties con- No. 6. cerned on the appropriate framework to give effect to such expansion. Parking Facilities. 58. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Trans- Road Network. port when the new park and ride facilities in the 54. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Trans- Dublin area, recently announced, will be oper- port his views on whether development of the ational; the number and location of such sites; Dublin Port tunnel will solve an infrastructure and if he will make a statement on the matter. problem or will create the need for further invest- [15565/05] ment in the transport infrastructure system; and 146. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- if he will make a statement on the matter. port his plans to create extra parking facilities in [15496/05] the vicinity of all railway stations with a view to Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The alleviating road traffic congestion; and if he will Dublin Port tunnel project was developed by make a statement on the matter. [15872/05] Dublin City Council, and the National Roads Minister of State at the Department of Trans- Authority, NRA. As a major new addition to the port (Mr. Callely): I propose to take Questions road infrastructure in the Dublin area, the port Nos. 58 and 146 together. tunnel will provide a high quality access route for Park and ride is included as an element of the heavy goods vehicles getting to and from Dublin Dublin Transportation Office, DTO, transport Port and will improve traffic flow in the city for strategy 2000-16, A Platform for Change. Where freight distributors and other port-related traffic. their use is appropriate, such facilities need to be The port tunnel will also have substantial designed and implemented in association with environmental and safety benefits through the other measures, such as public transport improve- removal of HGVs from residential areas. ments, traffic management and parking controls. I understand that arrangements are being put A Dublin Transportation Office working group, in place by Dublin City Council and the NRA to consisting of representatives of the DTO itself, ensure the smooth integration of traffic from the Iarnro´ dE´ ireann, RPA and the local authorities, port tunnel into the Dublin road network, partic- produced a strategy in November 2004 for the ularly at the M1-M50 interchange, and to avoid development of rail-based park and ride facilities congestion in the port area. in the greater Dublin area. I am informed that these measures together Earlier this week, I had a detailed and very with the significant upgrade of the M50, including productive discussion with the chairman and chief the move to free flow open road tolling, the open- executive of the DTO on the findings and recom- ing of the south eastern motorway section of the mendations of this strategy. I will communicate M50 this summer, the widening of the N7 Naas with the DTO in the next few days setting out my Road, and the upgrade projects on the N2 and response to its strategy. N3 will deliver important improvements to the I am acutely aware of the need to develop capital’s road network. I am confident that these appropriate park and ride facilities in order to major improvement works will deliver a quality facilitate as in other major urban areas, the modal road infrastructure that is safer and reduce con- shift from car use to the use of public transport. gestion for all road users. Officials in my Department are continuing to consult the relevant authorities to ensure this Question No. 55 answered with Question matter is given adequate attention and support No. 47. will be provided in appropriate cases. As tangible evidence of this policy, my Department provided Road Safety. financial support for a 920 space park and ride facility which opened in Cork in December 2004. 56. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Trans- port when the promised updated version of the Vehicle Testing. official rules of the road handbook will be avail- able; and if he will make a statement on the 59. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Trans- matter. [15575/05] port if his attention has been drawn to a recent report from the British Vehicle and Operator Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): My Services Agency that found that a high pro- Department has commenced activity to update portion of Irish registered lorries travelling to the rules of the road booklet. It is the intention Britain failed roadside mechanical or driver tests to publish a new rules of the road booklet in draft when checked during 2003 and 2004; his views on form by mid-year and to invite comments or sub- the findings; if he has satisfied himself with safety missions thereon. The new booklet would then be standards of Irish vehicles; and if he will make a finalised in the autumn. statement on the matter. [15560/05] 761 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 762

Minister of State at the Department of Trans- Sligo, Tuam and Macroom were of the order 20, port (Mr. Callely): There has been a press report 10 and 22, respectively. The costs associated with to that effect. I have asked my Department to the review will not be determined until the review obtain a copy of the British agency’s report. has been completed but they are not expected to Motor vehicles must comply with a range of be significant. They will be met from subhead B4 requirements while being used in a public place. of the Department’s Vote from which expenses These requirements are set out in the Road related to the supervision of the national car test- Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of ing service are met. The public consultation phase Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 2002, Road Traffic of the mid-term review of the car testing service (Construction and Use of Vehicles) Regulations will be concluded by the end of the month. 2003 to 2004 and the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 1996. Road traffic Question No. 61 answered with Question law assigns responsibility to the user of the No. 34. vehicle for ensuring compliance with these regu- lations. Enforcement of road traffic law is a Road Network. matter for the Garda Sı´ocha´na. 62. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Trans- In accordance with EU requirements, goods port if he has had discussions with the Depart- vehicles and trailers are liable for a roadworth- ment of the Environment, Heritage and Local iness test when they are one year old and every Government in regard to the routing of the year thereafter. The items to be tested as part of planned M3 motorway, particularly in regard to a vehicle test are specified in a EU directive. The the Tara-Skryne valley; and if he will make a roadworthiness test reflects both the require- statement on the matter. [15566/05] ments of the directive and those laid down in the national “in-use” regulations. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The plan- The implementation of EU Directive ning, design and implementation of national road 2000/30/EC which provides for random roadside improvement projects, including the M3 project, roadworthiness testing of HGVs will also assist is a matter for the National Roads Authority, in securing adherence to vehicle standards. My NRA, and the local authorities concerned — in Department is in discussions with the Garda this case Meath County Council. Sı´ocha´na with a view to putting in place the In recent months both my officials and myself necessary arrangements for full implementation have informally impressed on the officials and of the directive. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the desirability of resolving National Car Test. the archaeological issues relating to the M3 route. 60. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Trans- Question No. 63 answered with Question port the number of public meetings held to date No. 9. under the consultation process on the perform- ance of the national car test; the average numbers Taxi Regulations. attending at each such meeting; the expected total cost of this process; when it is likely to be com- 64. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Trans- pleted; and if he will make a statement on the port when new regulations on customer service matter. [15563/05] and safety standards in the taxi industry will be implemented; the precise areas that these regu- Minister of State at the Department of Trans- lations focus on; the number of submissions from port (Mr. Callely): Notices concerning the public the public he has received in this respect follow- consultation process for the mid-term review of ing the public consultation phase; and if he will the national car testing service were placed in make a statement on the matter. [15567/05] both national and local newspapers. The notices invited submissions and suggestions for changes Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): As indi- in the car testing services and outlined that they cated in the reply to Question No. 49 of 24 March may be submitted on-line at www.nctsreview.ie,in 2005, I understand that the Commission for Taxi writing to NCT review, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Regulation is currently reviewing existing regu- Wilton Place, Dublin 2, or in person at one of the lations governing safety and service standards in public consultation meetings. the industry. The outcome of this review will pro- In addition, 10,000 car owners were issued with vide the basis for the development of a new letters informing them of the review and inviting national code for the regulation of taxis, wheel- them to attend one of the public meetings that chair accessible taxis, hackneys and limousines have been organised as part of the consultation and their drivers. process. These meetings have been arranged over It is understood from the commission that 131 the period from 2 to 18 May in Sligo, Tuam, Mac- submissions have been received in response to room, Kilkenny, Longford, Dublin and Limerick. the public consultation process and these are The numbers attending the meetings last week in being considered. It is further understood that the 763 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 764

[Mr. Cullen.] applications received in my Department remain commission aims to complete the review process confidential until a decision is made. by the end of May 2005 following which the prep- However, as of 10 May 2005, there are two aration of the new code of regulation will applications outstanding from 2003. My Depart- commence. ment has had extensive correspondence with these applicants. They are now at an advanced Question No. 65 answered with Question stage of consideration and I expect decisions will No. 6. be given shortly in respect of them. A total of 31 applications are outstanding from 2004 and 40 Road Network. applications are outstanding in 2005. In addition to these outstanding passenger licence appli- 66. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Transport cations for new routes, my Department also has the situation with regard to plans to introduce 106 requests to amend current passenger licences open tolling on national motorways; the dis- under consideration. cussions he has had with the NRA and NTR in Applications under the Road Transport Act this regard; when the necessary legislation will be 1932 are generally dealt with on a first come, first published; and if he will make a statement on the served basis. However, pressing or exceptional matter. [15569/05] circumstances can be taken into account in Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Auto- determining the order in which applications are mated toll collection is currently in use on exist- dealt with. ing toll plazas and provides for one toll lane in each direction dedicated to the automated collec- Road Network. tion of tolls. A physical barrier is used on the 68. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Trans- lanes to prevent non-payment of tolls. The only port the procedures in place to ensure value for route where a move to full open road on barrier money in respect of public private partnership free tolling, that is, no manual collection and bar- road contracts; the information available to him rier free, is being considered is the M50. The in that regard; and if he will make a statement on move from the current toll arrangement on the the matter. [15671/05] M50 to a non-stop automated toll collection facility would be completed over a number of Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The stages, involving a phased reduction in the cashier assessment and evaluation of individual national or coin basket lanes with a corresponding road projects, including value for money, is increase in payments by automated methods. I undertaken by the National Roads Authority, have met both the NRA and NTR on this matter NRA, as an integral part of the planning of pro- and I emphasised the importance of moving to jects in accordance with Department of Finance open road tolling as quickly as possible on the guidelines on the appraisal and management of M50. capital projects and working rules for cost benefit My Department is contributing to the process analysis. In addition, the development and imple- by reviewing the need to change, where neces- mentation of toll-based PPP projects also take sary, the legislative framework so as to facilitate account of Department of Finance interim guide- the introduction of open road tolling. In part- lines on the assessment, approval and procure- icular, it is likely that legislation will be needed ment of PPP projects. to implement appropriate deterrents for non-pay- In assessing value for money of road PPP pro- ment of tolls in an open road tolling environment. jects, the NRA prepares a financial comparator I anticipate, subject to the other priorities on the which represents the cost under traditional pro- legislative programme, that the draft legislation curement. This is compared to the cost to the will be introduced in autumn of this year. public sector under a PPP arrangement to assess which offers better value for money. This value Public Transport. for money comparison is undertaken at different stages of the PPP procurement process. At the 67. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for final stage, the best and final offer submission Transport the number of applications for licences which has been judged most economically advan- of new public transport routes which are being tageous is compared against the financial com- considered by his Department; the locations to parator to confirm that a toll-based PPP offers which these licences refer; the date on which the better value for money. applications were made; and the providers who The detailed appraisal procedures followed by made the application. [15485/05] the NRA for all roads projects indicate that the Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The Road national roads programme represents good value Transport Act 1932 provides the legislative basis for money, given the significant economic and for entry to the public transport market by social benefits deriving from improving our private bus operators. In accordance with this national road network. In recent years a number legislation, private bus operators apply to my of independent evaluations conducted by Department for passenger licences to provide bus Fitzpatrick and Associates in 2002, Indecon in services on specific routes within the State. In 2003 and the Office of the Comptroller and Audi- accordance with long-standing practice, details of tor General in 2004 have acknowledged that the 765 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 766 national roads programme is, in general, well road traffic legislation; and if he will make a state- managed. ment on the matter. [15493/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Section 21 Public Transport. of the Road Traffic Act 2002 provides an appro- 69. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for priate and comprehensive basis for the use of Transport the budget that will be provided in apparatus, including cameras, for the purpose of 2005 for the purchase of new buses by Dublin establishing evidence in respect of a range of Bus; if there is a standard frequency of service traffic offences, including speeding offences. The required on new quality bus corridor; and if the Road Traffic Act 2004 introduced further clarity rollout of quality bus corridors in Dublin is being to the provisions of section 21 in order to affirm restricted by the lack of new buses to provide the use of radar guns and other apparatus that do such levels of service. [15654/05] not produce permanent records, to support Garda enforcement. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I under- The parameters established by section 21 for stand that Dublin Bus intends to purchase 70 new the use of apparatus generally are stated in the replacement buses, including 20 high capacity tri- broadest possible manner in order to facilitate the axle buses, in 2005. Exchequer funding of \1.2 deployment of any technology currently in use million is being provided towards the cost of including digital imaging. Decisions relating to these buses. The new tri-axle buses will provide both the type of equipment and the technology 20% more passenger carrying capacity than to be deployed to support enforcement are double deck buses. matters for the determination of the Garda Com- Significant Exchequer investment has been missioner. made in Dublin Bus in recent years. However, there has also been significant investment made Traffic Management. to date under the NDP in other modes such as 71. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Trans- Luas, suburban rail lines and the DART. In light port if his Department has received information of the significant expansion of rail capacity and on the proposed traffic management measures considering demographic changes in the city, the due to be put in place during the first phase of management of Dublin Bus is examining whether the upgrade of the M50; and if the road works capacity on certain corridors might be better util- will have an adverse effect on congestion during ized to meet growing demand elsewhere. I am that period. [15660/05] awaiting the outcome of this review. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The plan- I have been advised by the Dublin Transpor- ning, design and implementation of national road tation Office that the specification for a QBC improvement projects, including related traffic includes the expected average passenger wait management arrangements as part of these pro- time of 3 minutes at a bus stop. My Department jects, are a matter for the National Roads Auth- has allocated \40 million for traffic management ority, NRA, the local authorities concerned and to the Dublin Transportation Office in 2005. the relevant contractors. I understand from the QBCs account for a significant proportion of the NRA that the maximum possible maintenance of funding under this scheme. I understand the traffic flow will be an important part of the con- traffic management grants committee of the tract for the construction of the scheme. Dublin Transportation Office is currently prior- itising the list of QBCs with a view to ensuring Question No. 72 answered with Question that the full allocation of funding, which has been No. 6. provided, will be drawn down in the course of Question No. 73 answered with Question 2005. No. 26. I do foresee an expansion in the bus market in the greater Dublin area in the coming years, Road Traffic Offences. ´ involving participation by Bus Eireann, Dublin 74. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Trans- Bus and private operators. In this regard, my port if, in respect of the inspectorate of the road Department is currently in discussions with the haulage section of his Department, he will report parties concerned on the appropriate framework on the number of drivers found to be driving to give effect to such expansion. without an appropriate licence; the number of drivers found to have committed tacograph Road Traffic Offences. offences in each of the past five years; and the 70. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Trans- penalties imposed in each case. [15667/05] port the position regarding the use of digital ima- Minister of State at the Department of Trans- gery in speed cameras under the terms of road port (Mr. Callely): The number of drivers who traffic legislation; if it is necessary to introduce were found by the inspectorate in my Depart- additional road traffic legislation in order to allow ment to be driving vehicles that were not covered digital imagery to be used in the prosecution of by a road freight carrier’s licence in each of the offences resulting from speeding offences under past five years is as follows: 767 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 768

[Mr. Callely.]

Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Number of drivers 55 39 120 154 159

Regarding tachograph offences, the position is graph offences. Invariably, individual drivers that my Department records information on the found to be in breach of the tachograph rules are number of tachograph offences detected at the found to have a number of such infringements. premises of operators and at checks on drivers at Details of the tachograph offences detected in the roadside. The Department does not, however, respect of drivers in the past five years are set out maintain separate statistics on the number of dri- in the following table. vers that are found to have committed tacho-

Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

No. of detected tachograph offences by drivers 2,924 4,226 4,298 3,436 4,502

The question of the fines actually imposed in each identified by the company, however, no employee case with regard to vehicle licensing and tacho- has indicated a wish to move and this is being graph offences is a matter for the courts. For a examined. Implementation issues, including the tachograph offence, the law provides for a identification of accommodation, are being pur- maximum fine of \1,270 or six months imprison- sued by Bus E´ ireann. ment or both. In the case of illegal haulage, the maximum fine is \1,905 or six months imprison- Road Network. ment or both. Records of the fines actually 77. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Trans- imposed are retained by the courts. port the anticipated opening date for the Dublin Port tunnel; the current estimated total cost of Road Safety. the project; and if he will make a statement on 75. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Transport the matter. [15579/05] when he intends to introduce legislative measures to counter the use of mobile phones by drivers in Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The plan- view of the clear safety implications of this prac- ning, design and implementation of national road tice; and if he will make a statement on the improvement projects, including the Dublin Port matter. [15576/05] tunnel, is a matter for the National Roads Auth- ority, NRA, and the local authorities concerned Minister of State at the Department of Trans- — in this case, Dublin City Council. However, I port (Mr. Callely): Arising out of advice from the understand from the NRA and Dublin City Attorney General that the existing regulations on Council that construction of the port tunnel is mobile phone use by drivers may be ultra vires, expected to be completed in December 2005 and the use of mobile phones while driving is under the tunnel will be open to traffic six to eight examination in my Department in the overall weeks later, following commissioning of the tun- context of in-vehicle information and communi- nel’s operations and safety features. The final cost cations technologies. Subject to the outcome of is estimated at \751 million — 2005 prices. that examination, it is my intention to include proposals related to the use of mobile phones by Air Services. drivers in the next appropriate Road Traffic Bill. 78. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Trans- port the number of US troops that have passed Decentralisation Programme. through Shannon Airport in 2005; if this figure 76. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Trans- represents an increase in the total for the same port the progress that has been made in the period in 2004; the type of facilities that are made decentralisation of State agencies to Mitchels- available to these troops when passing through town; the number of posts to be decentralised to Shannon; and if he will make a statement on the this location; the number of personnel identified matter. [12348/05] and willing to move to Mitchelstown; if he has secured suitable accommodation in this location Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Civilian for decentralisation; and if he will make a state- air carriers carrying weapons or munitions wish- ment on the matter. [13423/05] ing to land or over-fly Irish airspace are obliged to seek exemption from the provisions of sections Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Under the 6 and 7 of the Air Navigation (Carriage of decentralisation programme, Bus E´ ireann head- Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous quarters posts are to be relocated to Mitchels- Goods) Order 1973. This order applies only to town. That position remains unchanged. To date, the carriage of munitions of war, weapons and 86 posts suitable for decentralisation have been dangerous goods and not to military personnel. 769 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 770

There is no limitation on the carriage of military Regional Hospital; and the person who deter- troops on civilian aircraft if they are unaccompan- mines the charge. [15722/05] ied by weapons or munitions, as is sometimes the case. Therefore, my Department do not collate Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children information with regard to the number of military (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for troops onboard civilian aircraft. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- However, on the basis of information collected lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the by Shannon Airport management, the number of executive has the responsibility to manage and US troops that have passed through Shannon deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Airport from 1 January 2005 to 30 April 2005, the health and personal social services. This includes most recent figures available, is 110,766. In the responsibility for services at the Mid-West same period in 2004, the number of troops was Regional Hospital. My Department has 47,149. While in Shannon Airport, the US troops requested the chief officer for the executive’s have access to the transit lounge area. The facili- mid-western area to investigate the matter raised ties here include duty free, shopping area, toilets and to reply directly to the Deputy. and refreshments. Mental Health Services. Mental Health Services. 82. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 79. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Ta´naiste and for Health and Children the funding allocated in Minister for Health and Children if a care plan 2005 to provide staff and an additional 14 beds at will be put in place urgently for a person (details the Central Mental Hospital. [15723/05] supplied) in Dublin 10 and their case made a Minister of State at the Department of Health priority. [15720/05] and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act Minister of State at the Department of Health 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act which was established on 1 January 2005. Under 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, the Act, the executive has the responsibility to which was established on 1 January 2005. Under manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered the Act, the executive has the responsibility to on its behalf, health and personal social services. manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered This includes responsibility for funding of mental on its behalf, health and personal social services. health services. Accordingly, my Department has This includes responsibility for mental health ser- requested the chief officer for the executive’s vices. Accordingly, my Department has requested eastern regional area to investigate the matter the chief officer for the executive’s eastern raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. regional area to investigate the matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. Community Care. 83. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Departmental Investigations. ster for Health and Children the number of hours 80. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister provided by the home help service, by county, for for Health and Children the position with regard each of the years 2002, 2003 and 2004; and if she to recommendations by the review committee in will make a statement on the matter. [15724/05] its report on June 2004 into a death by suicide at Minister of State at the Department of Health the Mid-West Regional Hospital; and the position and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act regarding the engagement with the HSE and 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, private psychiatric facilities to ensure that the which was established on 1 January 2005. Under eligibility of private patients is ascertained prior the Act, the executive has the responsibility to to their acceptance and admission. [15721/05] manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered Minister of State at the Department of Health on its behalf, health and personal social services. and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): My Department Accordingly, my Department has requested the has sought legal advice from the Office of the national director for primary, community and Attorney General with regard to publishing the continuing care at the HSE to investigate the report referred to by the Deputy. Pending further matter raised and to reply direct to the Deputy. consideration of the matter by the Office of the Attorney General, the Department has been Services for People with Disabilities. advised against publication of the report either in 84. Ms McManus asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- full or in an edited format. In the circumstances, ster for Health and Children when the funding it would be inappropriate to make comment for disabilities promised by the Government in further on the detail of the report at this time. budget 2005 will be awarded to a provider of ser- vices (details supplied) in County Wicklow in Hospital Charges. order that it can advise parents, whose children 81. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister are on waiting lists for placements in 2005, in for Health and Children the charges for an hour regard to either the number of new places which long examination in a ward of the Mid-West will be provided or the quantum of new revenue 771 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 772

[Ms McManus.] Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children and capital funding which might be made avail- (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. able to address their needs. [15725/05] 86 and 87 together. The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Minister of State at the Department of Health Service Executive, which was established on 1 and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): It is my Depart- January 2005. Under the Act, the Health Service ment’s understanding from inquiries made of the Executive has the responsibility to manage and Health Service Executive that the east coast intel- deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, lectual disabilities development committee, of health and personal social services. which the agency mentioned by the Deputy in I consider that appropriate transport arrange- details supplied is a member, met on the fourth ments for patients requiring radiotherapy should of this month and agreed proposals with regard be made available, where necessary, by the to development funding for 2005. Health Service Executive. Accordingly, at my This information was collated by the Health request, my Department has asked the director Service Executive’s east coast area and forwarded of the National Hospitals Office to examine the to the Health Service Executive’s national direc- provision of road transport for such patients as torate in the form of business plans-proposals. a priority. The Health Service Executive east coast area has Inter-hospital air ambulance services are cur- no indication at present when or how much fund- rently provided by the Aer Corps and the Irish ing will be made available but will revert to the Coast Guard to facilitate the emergency transfer agency as soon as this information is to hand. of patients. The service is provided subject to the availability of the necessary aircraft and other Health Services. operational considerations. My Department, in 85. Mr. P. Breen asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- consultation with the Health Service Executive, is ster for Health and Children when a person currently finalising a service-level agreement with (details supplied) in County Clare will be called the Department of Defence to formalise arrange- for a CDC assessment; and if she will make a ments for the future provision of this service. statement on the matter. [15752/05] Medical Cards. Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act 88. Mr. Deenihan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, ster for Health and Children when she will intro- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under duce doctor-only medical cards; and if she will the Act, the executive has the responsibility to make a statement on the matter. [15798/05] manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children on its behalf, health and personal social services. (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for This includes responsibility for the matter the Health Service Executive, which was estab- referred to by the Deputy. Accordingly, my lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the Department has requested the chief officer for executive has the responsibility to manage and the executive’s mid-western area to investigate deliver, or arrange to be delivered, on its behalf, the matter raised and to reply directly to the health and personal social services. This will Deputy. include responsibility for the determination of eligibility of persons to GP visit cards. Ambulance Service. In November 2004, I announced the intention 86. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- of extending free access to general practitioner ster for Health and Children if she will enter into services under the General Medical Service discussions with the Department of Defence in scheme to up to an extra 200,000 persons. Free regard to the use of military helicopters to trans- access to general practitioner services will be the port very ill cancer patients requiring radio- only service available to holders of GP visit cards. therapy treatment either for therapy or palliative Funding has been provided in 2005 for this care and living outside Dublin, Cork or Galway, measure and it is my intention that the required for that treatment; and if she will make a state- target can be met by the end of 2005. Regarding ment on the matter. [15796/05] the GP visit cards, the Health Service Executive has put in place the necessary administrative 87. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- arrangements for their introduction. A public ster for Health and Children if she will enter into information campaign will be commenced over discussions with the HSE regarding the provision the coming days, which will indicate the process of a helicopter service to transport very ill cancer to be followed by applicants to obtain application patients requiring radiotherapy treatment either forms and to have their eligibility assessed by the for therapy or palliative care and living outside HSE. In the first instance, the HSE will consider Dublin, Cork and Galway, for that treatment; and the applicants eligibility for a full medical card. A if she will make a statement on the matter. process of engagement with the contractor and [15797/05] staff representative bodies is ongoing and it is my 773 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 774 intention to have GP visit cards available to per- (details supplied) in Dublin 6; and if she will sons on low income as quickly as possible. make a statement on the matter. [15855/05] Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Fairtrade Products. (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for 89. Mr. Boyle asked the Ta´naiste and Minister the Health Service Executive, which was estab- for Health and Children the extent to which her lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the Department sources Fairtrade products for use in executive has the responsibility to manage and same. [15816/05] deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal social services. This includes Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children responsibility for the assessment of applications (Ms Harney): The purchase of any products by for medical cards. Accordingly, my Department my Department must be in accordance with the has requested the chief officer for the executive’s procedures governing public procurement. I south western area to investigate the matter understand that Fairtrade products refer in the raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. main to food items and, as such, purchases by the restaurant in my Department are a matter for the Crime Prevention. catering company concerned. However, I can confirm that the current catering company has a 92. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Fin- contract for the supply of coffee beans from a ance if an update study has been made concern- supplier that enforces the Fairtrade policy. In ing entry points into the State for illegal drugs; addition, this company is accredited to Fe´ile Bia the routes now principally thought to be used which promotes the purchase of reliable and whether by land, sea or air; if further steps are safe produce. proposed to seal off these routes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15739/05] Appointments to State Boards. Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The Cus- 90. Mr. Boyle asked the Ta´naiste and Minister toms Service of the Revenue Commissioners has for Health and Children the current nominations primary responsibility for the prevention, detec- for vacancies on boards of statutory agencies tion, interception and seizure of controlled drugs under the remit of her Department. [15830/05] intended to be smuggled or illegally imported into the State. The Revenue Commissioners have Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children informed me that the position in relation to the (Ms Harney): The process by which a person is issues raised by the Deputy are as follows. Drug appointed to a state board reflects the conditions enforcement work is carried out with the assist- for appointment laid down in the relevant statu- ance of other law enforcement partner agencies, tory instrument establishing the board. Nomi- both at national and international level. Revenue nations for appointments to boards of statutory constantly evaluates the effectiveness of how it agencies under the aegis of my Department can manages and deploys its enforcement, anti-smug- arise in different ways. Some members are nomi- gling, intelligence and operational resources to nated by prescribed bodies, individual office hol- tackle the serious threat of drug smuggling. A ders or organisations and others are appointed by crucial part of this process is the constant updat- me, as Minister for Health and Children, having ing of intelligence at all levels of the drugs pro- due regard to the nature of the work of the board duction and supply chain network, including cur- and the consequent requirement for any rent national and international drug smuggling appointee to hold the necessary skills and expert- routes and the smuggling methodologies used. ise required to discharge the functions of that The Deputy will appreciate that detailed, confi- particular board. dential information-intelligence flow is required I take it the Deputy is referring to current vac- to ensure success in drugs interdiction. ancies on boards for which nominations have The principal entry routes used by smugglers been finalised. On that basis, appointments are attempting to illegally import drugs in recent due to be made by me to the board of years have been Dublin Port, Dublin Airport, Leopardstown Park Hospital and nominations for Rosslare Harbour and also importations by the two of the positions on that particular board have postal and express courier services. Revenue now been received from the Secretary of State for has nine drug detector teams strategically Defence in the United Kingdom, in accordance deployed at our main ports and airports. In 2003, with the provisions of the relevant statutory the Revenue Commissioners re-launched the cus- toms drugs watch programme, which seeks to instruments. enlist the help of the public in the critical activity of reducing the supply of illicit drugs by notifying Medical Cards. its officers on a confidential basis of suspicious 91. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- activity at sea, land and air boundaries. Last year, ster for Health and Children when a replacement Revenue deployed its first patrol vessel, the RCC medical card will issue in the case of persons Suirbhe´ir. Based in Cork but having a national 775 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 776

[Mr. Cowen.] butions for 2004; and if he will make a statement remit, this vessel is actively engaged in drugs on the matter. [15767/05] interdiction. There have been a number of signifi- cant seizures of drugs from pleasure craft and Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): I have been converted fishing vessels over the years and the advised by the Revenue Commissioners that a patrol vessel Suirbhe´ir now enables Revenue to PAYE balancing statement for 2004, showing respond better to this ever present threat. details of earnings and tax deductions, will issue Later this year, Revenue will take delivery of a to the taxpayer in the next few days. mobile container x-ray examination unit to assist in countering the smuggling of drugs and other Decentralisation Programme. illicit products through containerised freight 95. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Finance traffic. The Revenue Commissioners will con- his proposals for the provision of new accommo- tinue to broaden and deepen its drugs enforce- dation for the Land Registry and Registry of ment work on an ongoing operational basis with Deeds Offices; and if he will make a statement other partner law enforcement agencies such as on the matter. [15785/05] the Garda Sı´ocha´na, Naval Service, Europol and other Customs services to ensure greater effec- Minister of State at the Department of Finance tiveness in disrupting the illicit drugs supply (Mr. Parlon): Land Registry and the Registry of chain. Deeds are based in a number of different locations in Dublin. Staff numbering 230 are due Departmental Properties. to decentralise to County Roscommon. It is pro- posed to build new office accommodation for the 93. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Finance remaining staff at Church Street, Dublin. A re- his estimate of the number of properties from evaluation of their requirements, in the context which State authorities, Government Ministers, of decentralisation, is currently under way. the Commissioners of Public Works and the Land Commission derive or are entitled to derive 96. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Finance ground rent income, in aggregate and by refer- the position regarding decentralisation to Dun- ence to each authority; the annual income accru- garvan, County Waterford; and if he will make a ing to State authorities from ground rents, in statement on the matter. [15787/05] aggregate and by reference to each authority; the difference between the amount due and owing Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): As I have and the amount actually received; the proportion stated in my reply to Parliamentary Question No. of the amount due that is effectively written off 194 dated 10 May 2005, the Government’s decen- due to the time and expense involved in pro- tralisation programme, announced in budget ceedings for its recovery; the overall value to the 2004, will see the transfer of 210 posts to Dungar- State of the exemption of State authorities from van. Initial data from the central applications the provisions of the Landlord and Tenant Acts facility indicate that, while 15 staff of Ordnance that enable tenants to enlarge their interest in Survey Ireland, OSI, have applied to decentralise their property by acquiring the fee simple; the cir- to Dungarvan, there are a further 47 expressions cumstances in which the public interest has been of interest in decentralising to Dungarvan OSI by invoked by State authorities to prevent a tenant civil servants. from acquiring the fee simple, indicating the All organisations that are decentralising, number of properties in which a State authority including OSI, have prepared and submitted an is ground landlord in which public interest con- implementation plan as requested by the decen- siderations apply or would apply; the policy con- tralisation implementation group, DIG. This plan siderations to which his attention has been drawn included detailed material on all issues to be for the exemption of State authorities from addressed in terms of people, property and busi- ground rents legislation; and if these consider- ness planning and will be further developed as ations have been reviewed or are proposed to be additional information emerges. In its next reviewed; and if he will make a statement on the report, the DIG will deal with locations and matter. [15749/05] organisations not covered in its November report, Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Since it which did not include Dungarvan. Regarding would not be possible in the time available to property acquisition, I understand from the OPW assemble the information sought by the Deputy, that it has chosen a site for the decentralisation I propose to ask each Minister to address the project in Dungarvan and details of the deal are question and to reply direct to the Deputy. being finalised with the land owner.

Tax Collection. Fairtrade Products. 94. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Finance if 97. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Finance a person (details supplied) in County Kildare will the extent to which his Department sources Fair- be issued with a statement of their tax contri- trade products for use in same. [15817/05] 777 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 778

Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): My Depart- intends to make available for such projects; when ment does not directly source Fairtrade products. this will be made available; and if he will make a Regarding the supply of services such as cafeteria statement on the matter. [15889/05] services in my Department, it is a matter for the Minister of State at the Department of Finance companies providing such services to make their (Mr. Parlon): The Report on the Dublin Coastal own commercial decision in sourcing their Flooding Protection Project has been received by supplies. the Office of Public Works in the last few weeks. It is a very detailed document and is currently Appointments to State Boards. being examined. 98. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Finance The project was commissioned by Dublin City the current nominations for vacancies on boards Council and Fingal County Council in association of statutory agencies under the remit of his with the OPW and the Department of Communi- Department. [15831/05] cations, Marine and Natural Resources, and set Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Nomi- out to examine the causes and impacts of flooding nations for appointments to boards of statutory from Portmarnock to Booterstown and to iden- agencies under the remit of my Department can tify appropriate measures to deal with the flood arise in different ways. Some members of boards risk in this area. are ex officio appointments, others are nominated I understand the report recommends a number by appropriate bodies or organisations and the of actions which include early flood warning remainder are appointed by me, as Minister for systems and the development of a number of Finance, taking account of the qualities, expertise flood defence schemes. The construction costs of \ and experience required to make a contribution the proposals are estimated between 64 million \ to the body in question. Currently, I do not have and 95 million. any nominations for vacancies of boards of statu- When the Report has been fully examined tory agencies under the remit of my Department. which because of its size and complexity will take some time, the OPW will meet city council Tax Code. officials and the other relevant bodies to discuss the proposals with a view to developing a priority 99. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for Fin- list of measures which could be undertaken in the ance the situation regarding the eligibility for tax coming years. Any funding which may be allowance claims for mature student fees for a required from the OPW will be considered at that course at a college (details supplied); and if stage in the context of the OPW’s annual budget students are eligible for tax allowance relevant to for flood relief projects, the large number of flood their fees at the college for this course. alleviation projects and non-structural measures [15848/05] currently being advanced by the OPW and the Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam urgency attaching to the various measures recom- informed by the Revenue Commissioners that the mended in the report on the Dublin Coastal income tax legislation provides for tax relief in Flooding Protection Project. respect of qualifying fees paid by an individual to an approved college in respect of certain full-time Fairtrade Products. or part-time undergraduate courses, postgraduate 101. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for courses and information technology and foreign Communications, Marine and Natural Resources language courses. On a specific note, for the pur- the extent to which his Department sources Fair- poses of the relief, the establishment in question trade products for use in same. [15818/05] is an approved college, the course is regarded as a qualifying course and, therefore, the fees payable, Minister for Communications, Marine and subject to a maximum, qualify for tax relief. The Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): My fact that a student is a mature student does not Department, as a corporate entity, is not involved alter his or her entitlements to tax relief. If the generally in purchases of products of the type Deputy has a particular case in mind, he can for- promoted under the Fairtrade movement. ward details to my Department who will pass on Appointments to State Boards. such details to the Revenue Commissioners to have the relevant claim processed. 102. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Flood Relief. the current nominations for vacancies on boards 100. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Fin- of statutory agencies under the remit of his ance if his attention has been drawn to the latest Department. [15832/05] report from Dublin City Council on flood preven- Minister for Communications, Marine and tion measures; his estimate of the total cost for Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The infor- flood prevention measures in the Dublin south- mation sought by the Deputy is set out in the fol- east area; the amount which the Government lowing table. 779 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 780

[Mr. N. Dempsey.]

Vacancies on Boards of State-sponsored Bodies

State Body Vacancies outstanding as at 9 May 2005

An Post 1 vacancy BIM 1 vacancy Bord Ga´is 1 vacancy Bord na Mo´ na 1 vacancy Digital Hub 3 vacancies ESB 2 vacancies Electronic Communications Appeals Panel 1 vacancy Central Fisheries Board 7 vacancies Eastern Regional Fisheries Board 4 vacancies Northern Regional Fisheries Board 2 vacancies North-Western Regional Fisheries Board 1 vacancy Southern Regional Fisheries Board 3 vacancies South-Western Regional Fisheries Board 6 vacancies Western Regional Fisheries Board 1 vacancy National Salmon Commission 20 vacancies — entire Board expired Dundalk Port 1 vacancy Marine Institute 1 vacancy Sustainable Energy Ireland 3 vacancies. The Sustainable Energy Act, 2002, provides that “on the third anniversary of the establishment day (1st May 2002) and thereafter, on each anniversary of the establishment day, 3 of the members of the Board, other than the chairperson and the CEO, shall retire from office”.

Benchmarking Awards. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): The Government is aware of the particular 103. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for human rights issues affecting the indigenous Communications, Marine and Natural Resources peoples in Colombia. The most recent statement the reason general operatives and foreman grades of Irish and European Union policy in this regard with the Central Fisheries Board have not been paid the second 50% payment of parallel bench- is set out in the conclusions of the General marking backdated to January 2004 plus 5% of Affairs and External Relations Council of 13 Sustaining Progress; and if he will make a state- December 2004 which stressed the importance of ment on the matter. [15884/05] protecting the rights of minorities and indigenous peoples, as reaffirmed in the Declaration of Gua- Minister of State at the Department of dalajara. In the Declaration of Guadalajara, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources which was adopted during the Irish Presidency of (Mr. Gallagher): Payment of the second phase of the EU in 2004, the countries of the EU and Latin benchmarking and general round increases is due America and the Caribbean reiterated their com- to be paid to the general operatives and foreman mitment to the promotion and protection of all grades of the Central and Regional Fisheries human rights and expressed their full commit- Boards following approval of their modernisation ment to promote the active involvement of min- action plan, which has recently been submitted to orities and indigenous peoples in the public poli- this Department for consideration. cies and programmes that concern them. The Department is currently evaluating the An official from my Department took part in plan against the terms of the Sustaining Progress the second meeting on international support for agreement and upon resolution of outstanding Colombia which took place in Cartagena de queries it will be submitted to the Performance Indias on 3-4 February 2005. This meeting issued Verification Group, which must approve the plan the Cartagena Declaration which, inter alia, before payment of the increases can be made. encouraged the Colombian Government to con- tinue with the improvement of the severe con- Human Rights Issues. ditions experienced by vulnerable populations, 104. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign especially the displaced, indigenous and afro-Col- Affairs if he will make a statement on the role of ombian communities. Ireland and the EU in combating the systematic At the recent 61st session of the United displacement of indigenous peoples in Colombia; Nations Commission on Human Rights in and if he will report on any actions taken to com- Geneva, Ireland supported two resolutions on pel the Colombian authorities and other relevant human rights and indigenous issues. Ireland also actors to uphold the constitutional rights of these worked actively for the inclusion of strong langu- indigenous people. [15748/05] age on the situation of indigenous groups in Col- 781 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 782 ombia in the chair’s Statement on the Situation agreements being negotiated between the EU of Human Rights in Colombia adopted by the and the 77 ACP countries, his views on whether commission. The final statement deplored the each ACP regional group should be allowed continuing violence against indigenous groups make its own decisions on the timing, pace and and violations of their economic, social and cul- sequencing in line with individual countries’ tural rights. Furthermore, the statement encour- national development plans and poverty aged the Colombian Government to take special reduction strategy. [15795/05] and urgent measures to avoid the forced displace- ment of indigenous communities. It also appealed Minister of State at the Department of Foreign to the illegal armed groups to respect the identity Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): I propose to take Ques- and integrity of the indigenous communities. In tions Nos. 105 to 110, inclusive, together. addition, in the statement of the European Union The EPAs, which are to enter into force by 1 on the situation of human rights in Colombia January 2008, are a part of the legally-binding delivered at the Commission on Human Rights Cotonou Agreement between the African, Carib- on 22 April 2005, the EU called on the Colomb- bean and Pacific, ACP, states and the European ian Government to take all necessary measures Union, EU. to ensure the protection of the human rights of EPAs are intended first and foremost as instru- vulnerable parts of the population such as the ments for development to foster the smooth and indigenous community. gradual integration of ACP states into the world economy, with due regard for their own political International Agreements. choices and their own development priorities, thereby promoting their sustainable development 105. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign and contributing to poverty eradication. They Affairs, further to the economic partnership combine trade and wider development issues in a agreements being negotiated between the EU unified framework, while taking account of the and the 77 ACP countries, if an effective safe- specific economic, social and environmental cir- guard mechanism will be put in place for ACP cumstances of each regional group and its com- countries to use if faced with a surge of subsidised ponent states. For instance, recent discussions EU imports; and if the Government will take a between the Commission and the Southern position supportive of the ACP countries. African Development Community, SADC, which [15790/05] has many of the features of a customs union, 106. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign focused on how those least developed SADC Affairs, further to the economic partnership member countries would be affected by further agreements being negotiated between the EU trade integration under the EPAs. This overall and the 77 ACP countries, his views on whether approach addresses the particular concern of the EU should take a non-mercantilist approach Ireland and other member states that develop- and not pursue any offensive interests. ment and poverty reduction should be the princi- [15791/05] pal objectives of the EPAs. As far as the impact of liberalisation of trade is 107. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign concerned, I would draw the Deputy’s attention Affairs, further to the economic partnership to Article 37(7) of the Cotonou Agreement, agreements being negotiated between the EU which states that the negotiations on the EPAs: and the 77 ACP countries, his views on whether shall take account of the level of development the EU should be prepared to provide an alterna- and the socio-economic impact of trade measures tive to EPAs to any ACP country on request and on ACP countries and their capacity to adapt and that such an alternative should provide market adjust their economies to the liberalisation pro- access no worse than that already enjoyed under cess. Negotiations will therefore be as flexible as the Cotonou preferences. [15792/05] possible in establishing the duration of a suf- 108. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign ficient transitional period, the final product Affairs, further to the economic partnership coverage, taking into account sensitive sectors, agreements being negotiated between the EU and the degree of asymmetry in terms of time- and the 77 ACP countries, his views on whether table for tariff dismantlement, while remaining in the EU should offer all ACP countries a period conformity with WTO rules then prevailing. of 20 years or more for market opening on an As trade is a European Community com- unconditional basis. [15793/05] petence, it is the European Commission which conducts the negotiations on the EPAs between 109. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign the EU and six regional groupings of ACP states Affairs, further to the economic partnership on behalf of the member states. The Commission agreements being negotiated between the EU provides the Council with regular updates on the and the 77 ACP countries, his views on whether progress of the negotiations. We are satisfied that the EU should not force trade liberalisation on the Commission is discharging its mandate in developing countries either through trade nego- accordance with the provisions of the Cotonou tiations or aid conditionality. [15794/05] Agreement and in a manner which is sensitive to 110. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign the particular concerns of the ACP states. I note Affairs further to the economic partnership in particular, in the context of the further pro- 783 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 784

[Mr. C. Lenihan.] Appointments to State Boards. gression of EPA negotiations, Commissioner 112. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Foreign Mandelson’s statement that he is putting the EPA Affairs the current nominations for vacancies on process under continuing review, through a mech- boards of statutory agencies under the remit of anism to ensure that at every stage in the nego- his Department. [15833/05] tiations the development dimension is put first. Ireland is carefully following developments in Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): the EPA negotiations process and will continue There is only one statutory agency under the to do so. In discussions within the Council and its remit of my Department, namely the Ireland- bodies, we will be insisting that the Commission United States Commission for Educational take forward its negotiating responsibilities in Exchange, known as The Fulbright Commission. accordance with the provisions of the Cotonou There is one vacancy on the board of the com- Agreement and in a manner which is responsive mission at present and possible nominees for to the particular concerns of the ACP states. appointment are under consideration at this time.

Fairtrade Products. National Aquatic Centre. 111. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Foreign 113. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Arts, Affairs the extent to which his Department Sport and Tourism when the OPW will publish sources fair trade products for use in same. the report commissioned by it on storm damage to the National Aquatic Centre; if the findings of [15819/05] the report will be implemented; and the estimated Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): cost. [15789/05] The Fairtrade mark is an independent assurance 114. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Arts, that producers in developing countries receive a Sport and Tourism when the report of the inquiry fair price for their products. It provides a vital commissioned in respect of the National Aquatic opportunity for producers in the poorest Centre and the damage caused by storms to the developing countries to access international roof of the complex and other areas of the facility markets on fair terms of trade and also for people will be published; the cost of the report; and if in Ireland to make a practical contribution to all of its findings and recommendations will be improving the conditions of producers in implemented. [15775/05] developing countries. I fully support the objectives of the Fairtrade Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. campaign and am glad to confirm that Fairtrade O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. products, such as tea and coffee, are in use in the 113 and 114 together. Department of Foreign Affairs including at An independent report on the damage to the events organised by our protocol division in National Aquatic Centre was commissioned by Iveagh House for visiting dignitaries etc. the Office of Public Works, at the request of my The Deputy may also wish to note that since Department and in consultation with Campus 1996, Development Co-operation Ireland has and Stadium Ireland Development Limited, CSID. The report was prepared by Kavanagh been making grant aid available to Fairtrade Mansfield and Partners, Consulting Structural Mark Ireland, the national fair trade labelling and Civil Engineers. There are legal, contractual organisation. In 2004, Fairtrade Mark Ireland and financial issues that must be considered in received a grant of \40,994 through the develop- light of the report and, therefore, it must remain ment education grants scheme to support its main confidential at this time. I can assure the Deputy activities including: promotion of the concept of that the findings of the report have been fully Fairtrade with businesses; development edu- taken into consideration by CSID and the con- cation; and raising public awareness, in particular tractors in the context of the repair works which through the Fairtrade Fortnight and the Fairtrade is currently under way. This work is scheduled for Towns initiative. completion by 20 May 2005. The Office of Public Development Co-operation Ireland is also Works has made a payment of \17,588.50 in assisting community-based Fair trade agricultural respect of the report. projects in Central America. Over the three-year period 2003-05, funding of \567,000 has been pro- Fairtrade Products. vided to promote access to fair-traded marketing options for coffee cooperatives in Honduras, 115. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Arts, Guatemala and Nicaragua. Funding is channelled Sport and Tourism the extent to which his through the regional office of the Fairtrade Department sources Fairtrade products for use in Labelling Organisation based in El Salvador. Del same. [15820/05] Campo, a Fairtrade certified co-operative in Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Nicaragua, has received funding of \187,000 to O’Donoghue): I am aware of the Fairtrade cam- support small grain producers over three years to paign for securing fair deals for small producers process and market a variety of products includ- of tea, coffee, fruit etc. in Third World countries ing sesame seed. through raising consumer awareness. 785 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 786

However, as my Department has no canteen Appointments to State Boards. facilities of its own, the scope to source such 119. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for products does not arise. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the current nominations for vacancies on boards of statutory Appointments to State Boards. agencies under the remit of his Department. 116. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Arts, [15835/05] Sport and Tourism the current nominations for Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- vacancies on boards of statutory agencies under ment (Mr. Martin): Of the statutory agencies the remit of his Department. [15834/05] under the aegis of my Department, there are vac- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ancies on the boards of the National Standards O’Donoghue): The statutory agencies under the Authority of Ireland and Shannon Development. aegis of my Department are as follows: The Arts The National Standards Authority of Ireland’s Council; The Irish Film Board; The Irish Sports board currently has one vacancy but, to date, no Council; The National Museum of Ireland; The nomination has been made in respect of this posi- National Library of Ireland; Fa´ilte Ireland; The tion. There is currently one vacancy on the board Irish Sports Council; Horse Racing Ireland; and in Shannon Development. Bord na gCon. There are currently no vacancies The board of the Health and Safety Authority on the boards of these agencies. currently numbers 11, including the chairman. Under the provisions of the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill 2004, which is currently in Industrial Development. the Seanad, the board will increase to 12. The 117. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Minister of State with responsibility for labour Enterprise, Trade and Employment the owner- affairs has announced that Ms Anne Marie Hayes ship of the grants awarded to and the future plans will fill the 12th position when the Bill is enacted. for a factory (details supplied) in County Leitrim; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Job Initiative. [15757/05] 120. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the consider- ment (Mr. Martin): I have been informed by ation which has been given to job initiative par- Leitrim County Enterprise Board, CEB, that the ticipants in receipt of the one parent family pay- company referred to received approval for ten ment. [15844/05] employment grants from Leitrim CEB in 1999 to Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- a total value of \57,138. In accordance with estab- ment (Mr. Martin): The job initiative, JI, prog- lished procedures, half of the grants approved ramme is intended as an active labour market were paid at the time the additional jobs were programme for persons 35 years of age or older created. As the company ceased trading before who have been unemployed for five years or the company became entitled to the remainder of longer. Eligible persons are employed by manag- the grants, no further grants were due and no ing agents, with the support of a grant from FA´ S further payments were made. for this purpose. The JI programme currently Neither I nor Leitrim County Enterprise Board provides for a minimum payment to participants are aware of the future plans for this factory. of \346.40, regardless of their family circum- stances. Persons in receipt of the one parent Fairtrade Products. family payment for a minimum of five years are eligible to participate in the programme. This is a 118. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for means tested payment and the rate payable and Enterprise, Trade and Employment the extent to eligibility for this payment are matters for the which his Department sources Fairtrade products Department of Social and Family Affairs. for use in same. [15821/05] Following the recent review of FA´ S employ- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment schemes, which comprise community ment (Mr. Martin): I am aware of the formal employment, social economy and JI, I announced trade campaign with a very specific focus on rais- that with effect from 10 November 2004, that ing consumer awareness which operates under there would be no compulsory lay-offs on JI and the certification of the Fairtrade mark and to participants on JI would have their contracts have fairtrade products widely available and renewed for a further term. People who leave JI used. voluntarily may be replaced by community The use of any fairtrade product by my Depart- employment participants. These arrangements ment would be subject to compliance with public are intended to ensure the maintenance of the procurement rules and it is a matter for the provision of a network of valuable community private enterprises supplying services such as services throughout the country. cafeteria services in the Department to make their own commercial decisions in sourcing their Proposed Legislation. supplies. 121. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for 787 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 788

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] a net fall in income after a recent increase in job Enterprise, Trade and Employment the persons initiative rates. [15845/05] or body which drafted or contributed to the draft- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. ing of the heads of the Investment Funds, Com- Brennan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 124 panies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005; and 127 together. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15876/05] The job initiative programme is one of a number of FA´ S schemes in which lone parents 122. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for may participate. Under the programme, full time Enterprise, Trade and Employment the persons employment is provided in the social economy for or body which drafted or contributed to the draft- individuals who are over 35 years and fulfil cer- ing of the Investment Funds, Companies and Mis- tain criteria. Lone parents can qualify for the cellaneous Provisions Bill 2005; and if he will programme if they have been on one parent make a statement on the matter. [15877/05] family payment-unemployment assistance-unem- ployment benefit or any combination of these 123. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for schemes for a minimum of five years. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the amounts Figures received from FA´ S confirm that there paid to the persons or body which drafted or con- are 450 lone parents who are on the job initiative tributed to the drafting of the heads of the Invest- programme. With effect from 1 January 2005, ment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Pro- these and other job initiative employees earn a visions Bill 2005; and if he will make a statement minimum of \346.40 for their 39 hour week, sub- on the matter. [15878/05] stantially more than the national minimum wage. Minister of State at the Department of This is an increase from the minimum \318.40 Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. payment that applied for the calendar year 2004, Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 121 to which in itself was higher than the \293 upper 123, inclusive, together. income threshold for receipt of the one parent The heads of the Investment Funds, Compan- family payment. ies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005 were I can confirm, therefore, that due to the job drafted by officials of my Department. A diverse initiative earnings being substantially over the group of persons and bodies contributed to the income threshold for receipt of the one parent drafting of the heads of the Bill. These include family payment, the recent increase in earnings the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Auth- for job initiative employees, effective from 1 ority, IFSRA, the Dublin Funds Industry Associ- January this year, cannot have led to the loss of ation, DFIA, the Office of the Director of Con- the one parent family payment for any par- sumer Affairs, ODCA, the Competition ticipant. Authority, the Office of the Director of Corpor- I would also like to point out that job initiative ate Enforcement, ODCE, the Stock Exchange, employees with families may be entitled to family the Companies Registration Office, CRO, and income supplement, a weekly payment for some other members of the Company Law families, including one parent families, at work Review Group, CLRG, which in turn, in certain on low pay. All employees working a minimum instances, consulted other interests. Following of 19 hours per week and with at least one quali- approval of the draft scheme by Government, the fying child are entitled to apply, provided the Bill was drafted by officials of the Office of the family income is below the qualifying income Parliamentary Counsel in consultation with limit. For the current year, qualifying income officials of the Office of the Attorney General limits for families start at \446 per week for a and officials of my Department. family with one child and increase to \623 per No moneys have been paid to any person or week for families with eight or more children. body in connection with the drafting of the Bill. Fairtrade Products. Job Initiative. 125. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Social 124. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the extent to which his and Family Affairs the number of persons on job Department sources Fairtrade products for use in initiative schemes who have lost their entitlement same. [15822/05] to the one parent family payment due to recent Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. wage rises in these schemes which have put the Brennan): My Department provides facilities for recipients above the income threshold for this a canteen service for staff in a number of payment; his proposals to increase the income locations but it is not directly involved in the pro- threshold for this payment to take account of this; vision of meals or in the running of these facili- and if he will make a statement on the matter. ties. Arrangements for the provision of services [15734/05] in these facilities are put in place by voluntary 127. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Social committees of staff in the locations in question. and Family Affairs the consideration which has I am ensuring that the issue of using Fairtrade been given to job initiative participants in receipt products is being brought to the attention of the of the one parent family payment, who have seen various committees. 789 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 790

Appointments to State Boards. The Social Welfare Tribunal is a statutory body which was set up in 1982 to deal with cases where 126. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Social entitlement to unemployment benefit or assist- and Family Affairs the current nominations for ance is refused due to an involvement in a trade vacancies on boards of statutory agencies under dispute. The tribunal is an independent agency. the remit of his Department. [15836/05] It is made up of a chairman and four ordinary Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. members, two of whom are representative of Brennan): The five statutory agencies operating workers and two representative of employers. under the aegis of my Department are the Pen- The members are appointed by the Minister on sions Board, the Combat Poverty Agency, Comh- foot of nominations by the Irish Congress of airle, the Family Support Agency and the Social Trade Unions, ICTU, and the Irish Business Welfare Tribunal. Employers Confederation, IBEC. There are cur- The Pensions Board was established in rently no vacancies on the Social Welfare December 1990 under the Pensions Act 1990 and Tribunal. comprises 17 members, including the chairperson. The role of the board is to monitor and supervise Question No. 127 answered with Question the provisions of the Pensions Acts, as amended, No. 124. relating to occupational pensions; and to advise the Minister on all matters relating to its func- Social Welfare Benefits. tions and on matters relating to pensions gener- 128. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social ally. There are currently no vacancies on the Pen- and Family Affairs if the rent allowance will be sions Board. awarded in the case of a person (details supplied) The Combat Poverty Agency, CPA, was estab- in County Kildare; and if he will make a state- lished in September 1986 under the Combat Pov- ment on the matter. [15859/05] erty Agency Act 1986 and comprises 16 members, including the chairperson. The main functions of Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. the agency are to advise the Minister for Social Brennan): The Dublin and mid-Leinster area of and Family Affairs on all aspects of economic and the Health Service Executive has advised that the social planning in respect of poverty; to initiate family in question had been in receipt of a rent and evaluate measures aimed at overcoming pov- supplement, initially paid to the person con- erty; and to promote greater public understand- cerned and subsequently to her spouse, in respect ing of the nature, causes and extent of poverty of their family accommodation. and the measures necessary to overcome it. There The executive became aware that there had are currently no vacancies on the board of the been a change in the employment status of the Combat Poverty Agency. spouse of the person concerned. It sought details Comhairle was established on 12 June 2000 from him about this to determine his continued under the provisions of the Comhairle Act 2000. entitlement to rent supplement. As he failed to It has a board of 20 members, including a chair- provide the information requested, the executive person. Comhairle is responsible for supporting has advised that it ceased payment of his sup- the provision of independent information, advice plement in February 2005. and advocacy services for citizens throughout the 129. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social country, including people with disabilities. There and Family Affairs if he has re-examined or will are currently three vacancies on the board of re-examine the application for rent allowance in Comhairle and there are no nominating bodies in the case of a person (details supplied) in Dublin respect of those vacancies. 6; and if he will make a statement on the The Family Support Agency was established on matter. [15862/05] 6 May 2003 under the Family Support Agency Act 2001 and comprises 12 members, including Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. the chairperson. The remit of the Family Support Brennan): The supplementary welfare allowance Agency is to provide a family mediation service; scheme is administered on my behalf by the com- support, promote and develop the provision of munity welfare division of the Health Service marriage and relationship counselling and other Executive. Neither I nor my Department has a family supports; support, promote and develop function in determining or reviewing entitlement the family and community; and to undertake in individual cases. research, provide and disseminate information As stated in my reply to Question No. 155 of about parenting and family issues and provide 21 April 2005, theDublin and mid-Leinster area advice to the Minister on matters relating to its of the executive has advised that the person con- functions. cerned made no mention of a health condition Persons are selected for appointment to the when applying for assistance under the sup- board on the basis that they have a special plementary welfare allowance scheme. She is cur- interest or expertise in matters relating to the rently in receipt of a reduced rate of allowance functions of the agency or matters related for herself and her child. thereto. There are five vacancies due to rotation, The executive has further advised that the per- which are due to be filled later this month. son concerned has not applied for rent sup- 791 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 792

[Mr. Brennan.] to be taken in an emergency occurring at the plement and that she has indicated she is aware aerodrome or in its vicinity. The plan must be that she is unlikely to qualify for support under tested by conducting a full-scale emergency exer- that scheme. It remains open to her to have her cise every two years. I understand that the airport accommodation needs met through the direct authority conducted an exercise in November provision facilities operated by the Reception and 2003 and that plans are being made for a further Integration Agency, pending determination of exercise later this year. her asylum status in due course. National Car Test. Social Welfare Code. 135. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Trans- 130. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and port if his attention has been drawn to the fact Family Affairs if the new respite grant for carers that the NCT centres were closed from lunchtime will be extended to include persons who work on 29 April until 3 May 2005, although they are more than ten hours outside the home. usually open all day Friday, Saturday and Mon- [15888/05] day; if any person who had 30 days for a reinspec- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. tion will not be forced to have a total retest due Brennan): The conditions for receipt of the to this unannounced closure; and if arrangements extended respite care grant are set out in the will be made for a reinspection in the case of a Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2005. The fol- person (details supplied) in Dublin 3. [15754/05] lowing conditions will apply: the carer must be Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The open- providing full-time care to a person who is in ing hours of NCT centres is a matter for the man- need of such care; as is the case with recipients of agement of National Car Testing Service Limited carers allowance, a full-time carer must not be having regard to the broad range of customer ser- engaged in employment for more than ten hours vice parameters for the service set down in the per week; and those who are on unemployment car testing contract. Each test centre should open payments will be excluded since they are required for a minimum of 20 hours each week between 9 to be available for and actively seeking full-time work. a.m. and 5 p.m. from Monday to Friday, exclud- I am committed to continuing to expand and ing public holidays, and, subject to local demand, increase the benefits and supports available to have one early opening per week from 8 a.m. and carers. By increasing the respite care grant to one late evening closing to 8 p.m. and be open for \1,000 and significantly expanding it to include at least four hours at weekends. A test centre’s thousands more recipients, we are going some of opening hours are published in notices on display the way towards giving carers a badly needed in the test centre concerned. break and also recognition for their commitment My Department has been advised by the com- and compassion. pany that at the recent public holiday weekend, I am keeping all support schemes for carers all NCT test centres closed at their normal closing under review and further possible improvements time on Friday, 29 April 2005, which in the case will be considered in a budgetary context. of the Northpoint test centre was 12 noon, and were closed on Saturday, 30 April, Sunday, 1 Question No. 131 answered with Question May, and Monday, 2 May. Where a test centre No. 26. is normally open over a weekend, the notice of opening hours on display in the test centre indi- Question No. 132 answered with Question cates that such a service is not available on a No. 34. public holiday weekend. A retest must be completed within 30 days of Question No. 133 answered with Question the initial test. It is the responsibility of the car No. 16. owner to return to the test centre for the retest within 30 days of the initial test having regard to Emergency Plan. the opening times of the test centre concerned. I 134. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Trans- understand, however, that the company takes a port if any of the future scenarios for exercises lenient view of circumstances where the 30th day under the national emergency plan will involve falls on the weekend of a public holiday and, inso- an incident at Shannon Airport; and if he will far as is practicable to do so, the retest will be make a statement on the matter [12394/05] carried out on the next open day. I am pleased to advise that the company will Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Exercises be contacting the person concerned shortly with a to test the robustness of the emergency planning view to arranging the required retest in this case. arrangements for aviation are a key component of the emergency planning framework. The auth- Grant Payments. orities at Shannon Airport are required, under the Irish Aviation Authority’s aerodrome licens- 136. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Trans- ing procedures, to establish an emergency plan port the grant aid assistance which is available to that provides for the co-ordination of the actions a person seeking to expand a family haulage busi- 793 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 794 ness; and if he will make a statement on the port Act 1932 to operate a regular bus service on matter. [15755/05] such as those routes mentioned in the Deputy’s Minister of State at the Department of Trans- question and my Department would look favour- port (Mr. Callely): I refer the Deputy to Question ably on any such application. No. 278 answered on 10 May 2005. The Depart- It is also open to Bus E´ ireann to initiate new ment does not provide grant assistance for per- services subject to compliance with the necessary sons involved in the operation of a road haulage regulatory requirement of giving advance notice business. to my Department and to compliance with the provisions of section 25 of the Transport Act 1958 Fairtrade Products. concerning competition with licensed private 137. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Trans- operators. port the extent to which his Department sources Fairtrade products for use in same. [15823/05] Rail Network. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Private 144. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- companies provide catering in my Department port his plans to improve the quality and fre- and source all food supplies used. The possibility quency of rail services with a view to alleviating of having Fairtrade-approved products used by traffic congestion on the roads; and if he will the catering service providers in my Department make a statement on the matter. [15870/05] will be explored. 145. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- Appointments to State Boards. port his plans to increase the capacity of the rail- way stations at Kilcock, Maynooth, Leixlip, Cel- 138. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Trans- bridge, Sallins and Hazelhatch, County Kildare; port the current nominations for vacancies on and if he will make a statement on the matter. boards of statutory agencies under the remit of [15871/05] his Department. [15837/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The to take Questions Nos. 144 and 145 together. details of vacancies on State boards on bodies under the aegis of the Department of Transport The scheduling and timetabling of trains is a are set out in the following table. These vacancies day-to-day operational matter for Iarnro´ d ´ will be filled in due course. Eireann to consider. On the basis of projected demand into the future, Iarnro´ dE´ ireann has sub- State Body Vacancies mitted a greater Dublin integrated rail network plan which proposes the enhancement of all sub- Aer Lingus 3 urban and outer suburban services into Dublin. Cork Airport Authority 1 The proposals are being examined by my Depart- Shannon Airport Authority 1 ment at present in the context of the multi-annual Co´ ras Iompair E´ ireann 1 investment framework for transport. Dublin Transportation Office 4 Iarnro´ dE´ ireann plans to place most of the 36 National Roads Authority 2 diesel railcars on the Sligo-Dublin line to increase Railway Procurement Agency 1 capacity and to remove older rolling stock from service. This will be of direct benefit to Maynooth passengers. The balance of the new fleet will be assigned to the Maynooth and Kildare outer sub- Questions Nos. 139 to 142, inclusive, answered with Question No. 12. urban services to increase capacity on those lines. These allocations will improve the capacity on Public Transport. individual trains by up to 33%. This capacity increase comes on top of a capacity increase of 143. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- 24% on the Maynooth line and an increase of up port if he has received requests for the provision to 160% on the Kildare line delivered in the past of feeder bus services to facilitate commuters 18 months. using railway stations in County Kildare; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15868/05] Question No. 146 answered with Question Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): There are No. 58. some licence applications under consideration in my Department for bus services in the County Road Network. Kildare area which include stops at train stations. 147. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- The provision of public bus services on specific port if consideration has been given to lowering routes is a commercial and operational matter for the floor level of the Dublin Port tunnel in order bus operators. to accommodate all modern makes of truck, It is open to any private bus operator who may including supertrucks; if his attention has been be interested to apply to my Department for an drawn to the fact that such a proposal meets annual passenger licence under the Road Trans- 795 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 796

[Mr. Durkan.] in which he envisages that Leader type prog- safety guidelines; and if he will make a statement rammes will be funded following the end of the on the matter. [15875/05] Leader programme at the end of 2006; and if he will set up new structures or incorporate some of Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Atkins the leader functions into the local Government Consultants was commissioned to review the structure. [15815/05] feasibility, safety implications and cost of raising the height of the Dublin Port tunnel. The options, Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht including the lowering of the floor of the tunnel, Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The final date for pro- for increasing the height of the tunnel were also ject commitments under the existing Leader considered by the NRA and by Dublin City programmes is the end of December 2006. The Council. In addition, the contractor, NMI Con- draft EU regulation on rural development, to sortium, priced the work that would be involved cover the period 2007-13, is published and is in increasing the height of the tunnel. under negotiation. This draft regulation, and the It was clear from this work that raising the associated guidelines to be published by the height of the tunnel would not be justified having European Commission, will outline the scope and regard to safety considerations and additional options for rural development programmes, cost and delay factors and I announced my including Leader type programmes, for the post- decision not to increase the height of the tunnel 2006 period. in October 2004. The Atkins report is available The draft EU regulation provides that on my Department’s web site at www.transport.ie. elements of the rural development programmes will be delivered by local action groups who must: National Car Test. propose an integrated local development strategy; have already been involved in the deliv- 148. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Trans- ery of a Leader initiative or be a new group rep- port if he will examine the case of a person resenting partners from the various locally based (details supplied); and if he will make a statement socio-economic sectors in the territory concerned; on the matter. [15885/05] and have the ability to define and implement a Minister of State at the Department of Trans- development strategy for the area. When this port (Mr. Callely): In accordance with EU process at EU level is complete, my Department Directive 96/96/EC, passenger cars are required will look at the opportunities and delivery mech- to undergo a roadworthiness test when they are anisms to be used in maximising the available four years old and every two years thereafter with funding for the benefit of rural communities. the test due dates determined by reference to the date of first registration of the vehicle. In the case Fairtrade Products. of taxis the national car test schedule is deter- 150. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- mined by reference to the taxi licence application munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the extent to and renewal dates. As the duration of a taxi which his Department sources Fairtrade products licence is one year, taxis are required to undergo for use in same. [15824/05] the national car test annually. Where a vehicle licensed as a taxi reverts to Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht private use the national car test certificate issued Affairs (E´ amon O´ : Cuı´v): My Department has no for the vehicle continues to be valid until the records of the use of Fairtrade products. expiry date specified on it at which stage a national car test is required. The expiry date of Appointments to State Boards. the national car test certificate issued on foot of 151. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- that national car test would be the next test due munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the current in accordance with the normal criteria applicable nominations for vacancies on boards of statutory for a passenger car. agencies under the remit of his Department. The national car test schedule for vehicles [15838/05] tested as taxis which revert to private use during the period covered by the taxi national car test Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht has been raised in the course of the mid-term Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): There are two vacancies review of the car testing service which is currently to be filled on boards of statutory agencies within under way. I will be prepared to examine this the ambit of my Department as follows: U´ dara´s matter in the light of the report which I will na Gaeltachta, one; and Ulster Scots Agency, receive from PricewaterhouseCoopers which is one. These vacancies will be filled in due course carrying out the review on behalf of my in accordance with the terms of the respective Department. Acts.

Rural Development. Poultry Industry. 149. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for 152. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Agri- Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the way culture and Food the tonnage of imported 797 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 798 chicken meat in each of the past five years and to the FVO and accepted and notified to the EU date in 2005, on a country basis; if she is satisfied member states. that all of these products are produced and The FVO carries out inspections to ensure that slaughtered to the same high standard as here; if only establishments that meet hygiene and health the slaughtering in Brazil, for instance, is over- standards equivalent to those operating within seen by either Irish or EU personnel; and if she the EU are approved. Where the FVO considers will make a statement on the matter. [15747/05] that public health requirements are not being met, an establishment may be removed from the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary EU approved list. If outbreaks of animal diseases Coughlan): The Central Statistics Office is occur in a third country approval to export to the responsible for the collection of statistics in EU is suspended for the infected regions of the relation to imports of meat and meat products. country, or the whole country, as appropriate, The following tables, which were compiled from until the disease risk has been eliminated. data supplied by that office, set out the details Importers of animal products must be regis- requested by the Deputy. In relation to the tables tered with my Department. They are required to the following should be noted: in certain cases the give advance notice of importation and, following record of import may include the re-import of import, are required to keep records of import- Irish products that were originally the subject of ation available for inspection by the Department an export from this country; the information for a period of three years. available for imports from EU member states Imported animal products must be does not differentiate between products originat- accompanied by the appropriate commercial ing in the EU country and those originating in documentation showing country and approval third countries that may already be in free circu- number of the establishment of production and, lation within the Community; and detailed EU in the case of meat and meat extracts imported legislation lays down the conditions that member from third countries, a health certificate con- states must apply to the production of and trade forming to the models set down in EU legislation. in products of animal origin, including meat, as While there is free movement for trade within well as to imports of these products from third the EU all consignments from third countries countries. Under harmonised legislation a series must first be landed at a border inspection post, of health and supervisory requirements are BIP, that has been approved by the FVO and applied in the member states to ensure that ani- must undergo documentary, identity and physical mal products are produced to standards that checks. These latter are carried out at frequencies guarantee the safety of food and the protection laid down in EU law. In Ireland BIPs approved of human and animal health. The application of for the processing imports of animal products are these standards in the member states is moni- located at Dublin Port and Shannon Airport. The tored by the Food and Veterinary Office, FVO, FVO carries out monitoring and inspection of of the EU. each member state’s BIPs to ensure the con- It is a requirement that animal products ditions for import of animal products into imported from third countries meet standards at Europe, provided under the harmonised legis- least equivalent to those required for production lation, are being correctly applied. in, and trade between, member states. All such Once it has been established that imported ani- imports must come from third countries or areas mal product has met all the required conditions of third countries approved for export to the EU. it is released for free circulation within the com- Brazil is an approved country. munity. Copies of the BIP clearance document In order to be an approved third country it and the health certificate must accompany the must: appear on a list drawn up and updated on consignment to its destination. Imports failing to the basis of EU audits and guarantees given by comply with these veterinary control checks may the competent authority of the exporting country; be detained for further examination. If non-com- have veterinary controls equivalent to those pliance is established they are returned to the applicable in the EU, particularly in terms of exporting country or destroyed. legislation, hygiene conditions, animal health Where there are concerns with regard to the status, veterinary medicines controls, zoonoses effectiveness of controls being operated in an controls and other food law; and have in place a approved third country the Commission, in con- residues programme approved by the European sultation with the Standing Committee on Ani- Commission. mal Health and the Food Chain, may introduce The animal products must be sourced from specific controls by means of a safeguard measure establishments that are approved and must bear to ensure the protection of human and animal an EU approved health mark. Exporting estab- health. Safeguard measures limiting or banning lishments must have: standards equivalent to the the export of animal products from EU countries requirements for EU export establishments; or regions of countries may also be implemented effective control systems and supervision by the where, for example, the conditions of an animal competent authorities; and traceability or label- disease outbreak could seriously effect pro- ling in accordance with the systems approved by duction and trade in animal products in the EU. 799 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 800

[Mary Coughlan.] Imports of Poultry — Non-EU Countries

Tonnes

Country of Origin 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Bangladesh 1,401 Bosnia & Herzegovina 318 Brazil 301 934 1,165 1,694 1,732 Ivory Coast 14 6 11 Chile 1 20 48 25 51 Czech Republic* 0 2 Gambia 91 Gabon 42 0 Georgia 13 Hungary* 21 40 99 1 Israel 74 117 110 Japan 45 Melilla 1 Niger 37 23 Nicaragua 8 208 284 215 Pakistan 11 Philippines 10 Poland* 40 71 Romania 1 Slovenia* 39 Switzerland 24 Thailand 314 692 1,225 1,191 2,419 Togo 4

Totals 770 3,567 2,953 3,323 4,564 Note: “0” indicates imports of less than one tonne. *Member States from 1 May 2004

Imports of Poultry — EU Member States

Tonnes

Country of Origin 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Belgium 3,385 2,232 3,414 3,326 3,441 Germany 358 924 2,566 2,134 1,947 Denmark 1,337 1,528 269 137 220 Spain 352 20 89 2,836 136 France 1,443 1,619 1,995 1,701 2,227 GB 20,073 19,443 19,637 20,631 21,645 Greece 10 Ireland 93 455 716 1,478 992 Italy 1,314 1,384 1,691 1,756 1.532 Netherlands 7,433 9,076 10,602 13,746 10,500 Portugal 20 Sweden 47 Northern Ireland 8,553 7,735 5,191 6,621 6,442

Totals 44,418 44,416 46,170 52,790 49,412

Total EU & Non-EU 45,188 47,983 49,123 56,113 53,976 Source: CSO.

Mushroom Industry. culture and Food the number of registered mush- 153. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Agri- room growers in Ireland in 2002, 2003 and 2004; 801 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 802 and the number of growers who have gone out of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary business in the first three months of 2005. Coughlan): Under the European Communities [15753/05] (Protection of Animals at Time of Slaughter) Regulations 1995, animals must be restrained in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary an appropriate manner in such a way as to spare Coughlan): The numbers of mushroom growers them any avoidable pain, suffering, agitation, in the past three years were: 2002, 365 growers; injury or contusions. In the case of ritual slaugh- 2003, 289 growers; and 2004, 228 growers. ter, restraint of bovine animals before slaughter There is no registration requirement for mush- using a mechanical method intended to avoid any room growers. A Teagasc survey carried out in pain, suffering or agitation and any injuries or February indicated that there were 201 active contusions to the animals is obligatory. Bovine growers in the country. The fall in grower animals must not be suspended before killing. numbers indicates that the mushroom industry These regulations are applicable only within the continues to consolidate around operations with territory of the European Union. increasing scale and efficiency.

Grant Payments. Live Exports. 154. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Agri- 156. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food if she will reconsider her culture and Food the steps she is taking to work decision in relation to an application for force with Lebanese authorities to improve animal wel- majeure for a person (details supplied) in County fare standards for Irish cattle after they have been Clare; and if she will make a statement on the off-loaded from ships arriving in the Lebanon, matter. [15774/05] particularly during onward transportation and at slaughter. [15777/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): The person named, having been noti- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary fied that the circumstances outlined by her did Coughlan): My Department has a comprehensive not satisfy the criteria for force majeure-excep- legislative framework in place to safeguard the tional circumstances under Article 40 of Council welfare of animals during transport. For export Regulation (EC) No. 1782/2003, submitted an refund purposes, under EU legislation cattle are appeal to the independent single payment subject to a veterinary inspection on arrival at appeals committee. third country destinations. On a number of Following a full examination of the circum- occasions my Department has sent Department stances outlined in the appeal, the independent veterinary inspectors to the Lebanon to witness single payment appeals committee made a recom- the unloading of Irish cattle and to verify that the mendation and a letter issued to the person animals are unloaded and treated in a humane named on 7 October 2004. The findings of the manner. When animals have landed in a third appeals committee were that the original decision country, transportation becomes a matter for the taken by my Department should be upheld. authorities there to deal with in accordance with The person named also submitted an appli- the laws of that country. cation for consideration in respect of the new 157. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Agri- entrant and inheritance measures of the single culture and Food the steps she is taking to payment scheme. Following processing of the encourage the Lebanon to import Irish beef only applications I am pleased to advise that both the in the form of meat, not live animals; her views new entrant and inheritance applications were on whether slaughter near to the farm of rearing successful. However, the new entrant measure is preferable both in terms of animal welfare pro- was found to be the more financially beneficial. tection and meat exports adding value to the An official from my Department has contacted product and creating employment here. the person named and advised her of the revised [15778/05] number and value of her entitlements, and informed her of the closing date of 16 May 2005 Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary for receipt of single payment applications. Coughlan): Less than 8% of all Irish beef exports in 2004 were in the form of live cattle. Exports to Animal Welfare. the Lebanon that year constituted less than 10% 155. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Agri- of all live exports and the Lebanese trade was culture and Food her views on whether the pre- only 20% of what it was five years ago. Live slaughter and slaughter procedures shown on exports, while small in volume terms, are a vital Compassion in World Farming’s recently- component of Ireland’s livestock industry, and released film of an investigation into Lebanese are essential for price competition and main- slaughterhouses are acceptable in terms of animal taining farm incomes. welfare standards; if the pre-slaughter practise of In recent years, the focus of the Irish beef suspending a conscious animal upside-down from industry has been to add value and to broaden one hind leg attached to a high rail is permissible and expand its market reach at EU retail level, under Irish law; and if she will make a statement shifting its orientation away from international on the matter. [15776/05] commodity markets and into the higher priced 803 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 804

[Mary Coughlan.] Appointments to State Bodies. internal EU marketplace. I am aware of the 160. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Agri- social, moral and economic imperative to ensure culture and Food the current nominations for that the transport of animals over long distances vacancies on boards of statutory agencies under is conducted in a manner which safeguards the the remit of her Department. [15839/05] welfare of animals being transported and mini- mises the risk of transmitting infectious diseases. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary The vast majority of live exports take place to Coughlan): There are at present no vacancies on other EU member states. boards of statutory agencies which come under The preservation of the animal health status of the remit of my Department. the country, the international reputation of veter- inary certification services and the existence and Decentralisation Programme. application of a regulatory framework ensures 161. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, that high standards and welfare considerations Equality and Law Reform the position regarding are central to the live export trade. the decentralisation of the Land Registry Office; Grant Payments. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15788/05] 158. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for Agriculture and Food if she will investigate the 175. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, case of a person (details supplied) in County Equality and Law Reform the proposals he has Cork; and if she will make a statement on the regarding the decentralisation of the Land Regis- matter. [15779/05] try Office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15806/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): The person involved submitted an Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform application for consideration in respect of the (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions new entrant measure of the single payment Nos. 161 and 175 together. scheme. Following an examination of the papers Under the Government’s decentralisation submitted, he was notified that his application programme, 230 posts in the Land Registry are was successful and that the years 2000 and 2001 scheduled to be relocated to Roscommon town. would be excluded from his single payment calcu- The Land Registry’s implementation plan in lation. A statement of provisional entitlements respect of this move is available on my Depart- outlining the amended position issued to him on ment’s website. 16 December 2004. The November 2004 report from the decentra- The person involved submitted an application lisation implementation group did not identify to have his entitlements reviewed. Following the Land Registry as one of the Departments or examination of the papers submitted it has been offices which should be the first to move outside established that payments under the extens- Dublin. The implementation group will be ification and slaughter premium schemes had not reporting again shortly in relation to the imple- been credited to him. This error has been cor- mentation of the programme as a whole and the rected and he has now been credited with these implementation plans for all the organisations payments. Notification has issued to the her- that are decentralising will be kept under review. downer concerned. The selection process with regard to property A new provisional statement of entitlements solutions to fulfil the accommodation brief for the has been requested and will issue in the coming staff decentralising to Roscommon is progressing week. and the Office of Public Works is at an advanced stage of negotiations in acquiring a suitable site. Fairtrade Products. The Deputy will also be aware that a significant element of the Land Registry was decentralised 159. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Agri- to Waterford some years ago. culture and Food the extent to which her Depart- ment sources Fairtrade products for use in Refugee Status. same. [15825/05] 162. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Justice, Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Equality and Law Reform if he will make a state- Coughlan): The decision to use any Fairtrade ment on Ireland’s policy in dealing with women product by my Department would of course be who arrive here and who have fled their homes subject to compliance with public procurement due to gender-based violence; and if specific rules and it is a matter for the enterprises supply- measures are in place to ensure that the victims ing services to the Department to make their own of such crimes are not forcibly returned to situa- commercial decisions in sourcing their supplies. tions of risk. [15740/05] I am pleased that the restaurant in Agriculture House, which is a private concern, took a decision Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform some two years ago to stock Fairtrade coffee, one (Mr. McDowell): The 1951 Geneva Convention of the products highlighted by Oxfam in a recent Relating to the Status of Refugees and section 2 campaign to promote Fairtrade products. of the Refugee Act 1996, as amended, defines a 805 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 806 refugee, inter alia, as: “a person who, owing to a rently living here; and if he will make a statement well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons on the matter. [15742/05] of race, religion, nationality, membership of a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform particular social group or political opinion, is out- (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions side the country of his or her nationality and is Nos. 163 and 164 together. unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail The European Union has a role in ensuring a himself or herself of the protection of that coun- more effective, joint approach to cross-border try; or who, not having a nationality and being problems such as trafficking in and smuggling of outside the country of his or her former habitual human beings. I can inform the Deputy that residence, is unable or, owing to such fear, is Ireland’s policies in this field complement devel- unwilling to return to it.” opments at both the EU and the broader inter- In relation to the issue of gender specific per- national level. secution, I would point out that section 1 of the Legislation is currently being prepared in my Refugee Act, as amended, defines “membership Department which will criminalise trafficking in of a particular social group” as including “memb- human beings for the purpose of their sexual and ership of a trade union and also includes member- labour exploitation as provided for in the EU ship of a group of persons whose defining charac- Council Framework Decision on combating traf- teristic is their belonging to the female or the ficking in persons and the Protocol to Prevent, male sex or having a particular sexual Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, orientation.” especially Women and Children, supplementing Consideration of individual applications for the UN Convention against Transnational Organ- refugee status based on gender grounds or other- ised Crime. This legislation will also take account wise is a matter for two independent statutory of the recently negotiated Council of Europe con- offices, namely, the Office of the Refugee Appli- vention on action against trafficking in human cations Commissioner which considers asylum beings. applications at first instance and the Refugee I can further inform the Deputy that a range Appeals Tribunal which considers applications at of practical measures and policies are in place to combat this type of crime. The Garda National appeals stage. Immigration Bureau, which was established in It should be further noted that where, after a 2000, has an investigation unit which investigates detailed investigation as described above, an asy- the trafficking of human beings. I am informed lum applicant is found not to be in need of refu- by the Garda authorities that members attached gee status and the Minister proposes to deport to this unit have attended relevant courses to the person under the Immigration Act 1999, as assist them in their investigations into the traf- amended, the safety of returning that person must ficking of human beings. These courses have been also be considered in deciding whether to make organised by Europol and European Police a deportation order. The legislation requires that College, CEPOL, on an EU wide basis. safety of return is considered at the level of the Members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na also attend individual in every case and before a deportation regular conferences in Europe, which facilitate an order is made. My Department uses extensive exchange of information between the EU country of origin information drawn from differ- member states, Europol and Interpol, as well as ent independent sources, including UNHCR, in inter-governmental consultations on asylum, refu- evaluating the safety of making returns to third gee and migration policies in Europe, North countries. I am satisfied that the procedures America and Australia. operated ensure as far as possible that persons Victims of trafficking are always treated sym- are not returned in dangerous circumstances. pathetically by members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the current immigration system in Ireland Human Trafficking. also allows the authorities to deal with the victims of trafficking in a sympathetic and pragmatic way. 163. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Justice, It is recognised that it is in the interests of both Equality and Law Reform if he will make a state- the victims of trafficking and the authorities to ment on the role of the European Union in com- co-operate with a view to ensuring the protection bating the trafficking of women and girls around of the victims and the prosecution of the per- the world, in particular on the EU’s policies to petrators. Although Ireland has not opted to par- track down and prosecute the perpetrators and ticipate in the Council directive dealing with the beneficiaries of such transnational crimes. issuing of residence permits to victims of traffick- [15741/05] ing in human beings, in practice a similar regime can be implemented under existing Irish 164. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Justice, legislation. Equality and Law Reform the Government’s During the course of Garda investigations the policies to combat the trafficking of women and gardaı´ liaise as necessary with Ruhama, a non- girls around the world; if policies are in place to governmental organisation which assists women raise awareness and understanding of such traf- who are the victims of this type of offence. Fur- ficking to provide proper training to relevant thermore, my Department has provided funding authorities in addressing the needs of victims of to this organisation, towards the employment of trafficking and to provide the appropriate sup- a coordinator on trafficking in persons for the ports to the victims of such crimes who are cur- purpose of sexual exploitation. Ruhama is in fact 807 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 808

[Mr. McDowell.] matter of a post-nuptial citizenship application in represented on the National Steering Committee the case of a person (details supplied) in County on Violence against Women and I expect that the Kildare; and if he will make a statement on the strategic plan currently being drawn up to chart matter. [15799/05] the activities of the committee for the next five Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform years will address further the question of traffick- (Mr. McDowell): I am pleased to inform the ing for sexual exploitation. Deputy that the examination of the declaration of post nuptial citizenship from the person Registration of Title. referred to has been finalised and that a formal 165. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, certificate confirming her Irish citizenship will be Equality and Law Reform when a dealing for a issued in the next few weeks. person (details supplied) in County Mayo will be completed at the Land Registry Office. Departmental Staff. [15743/05] 169. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Equality and Law Reform the number of staff at (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar the Land Registry Office, Dublin; the number of of Titles that this is an application for transfer of staff in each grade; and if he will make a state- part which was lodged on 13 July 2001. Dealing ment on the matter. [15800/05] Number D2001SM005438N refers. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform I am further informed that a query issued to (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by the lodging solicitor on 20 May 2004 and that this the Deputy is set out in the following table. query has not yet been satisfactorily resolved. I am, however, also informed that the Land Regis- Dublin Staff at 30 April, 2005. try and the lodging solicitor discussed this matter very recently with a view to its resolution. On Grade Number serving receipt of a satisfactory reply the application will receive further attention in the Land Registry and Registrar 1 will be completed as soon as possible. Deputy Registrar 1 Deputy Registrar (Operations) 1 Prison Staff. Principal Officer — Level 1 3 166. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Principal Officer — Level 2 2 Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position Chief Examiner of Titles (P.O. 1) 4.9 with respect to prison officer staff based at Shel- Examiner of Titles (P.O. 2) 5 ton Abbey, Wicklow; if they will be afforded an opportunity to remain at this location; and if he Assistant Principal 17.9 will make a statement on the matter. [15756/05] Higher Executive Officer 30.85 H.E.O. Systems Analyst 2 Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Executive Officer 107.4 (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy to my response to Questions Nos. 191 and 207 on 21 Staff Officer 19.5 April and to Question No. 256 on 5 May 2005, in Clerical Officer 150.5 which I outlined the measures I intend to pursue Head Services Officer 1 in an effort to ensure the efficient and effective Services Officer (P/K allowance) 7.8 use of the valuable resources at my disposal. Services Officer 4 The position regarding alternative placement Chief Superintendent of Mapping 3.8 for the staff currently located at Shelton Abbey Regional Mapping Director 7 is that they will be transferred on a permanent basis to other prisons. I cannot be more specific Superintendent of Mapping 20.2 at this point in relation to exactly what prisons Examiner in Charge 37.8 will be involved, but they will be notified in due Examiner of Maps 16.1 course. Draughtsperson 6.7

Registration of Title. Total 450.45 167. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when applications which are pending for a folio (details supplied) Land Registry. will be expedited. [15766/05] 170. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Equality and Law Reform the position regarding (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar the introduction of the new technologies at the of Titles that all four of the applications in ques- Land Registry office; and if he will make a state- tion have been completed. ment on the matter. [15801/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Citizenship Applications. (Mr. McDowell): The principal objective of the 168. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, Registration of Deeds and Title Bill 2004, which Equality and Law Reform the position in the is before the Seanad, is to provide a clear statu- tory basis for the registration of deeds and titles 809 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 810 on computer in the Land Registry and the Regis- Registration of Title. try of Deeds and for a digital mapping system, with a view to preparing the way for an electronic 173. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, conveyancing system. This involves the repeal of Equality and Law Reform the average length of existing Registry of Deeds legislation, the earliest time which registration takes in each county with of which dates back to 1707, and its replacement the Land Registry office; and if he will make a with provisions more suited to modern conditions statement on the matter. [15804/05] and amendments to the Registration of Title Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Act 1964. (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by 171. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, the Deputy is set out below. Equality and Law Reform the proposals he has for the future of the Land Registry Office, Water- County Average Waiting Time ford; and if he will make a statement on the (Months) matter. [15802/05] Carlow 9.3 Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Cavan 7.8 (Mr. McDowell): The Land Registry office in Clare 5.8 Waterford is a constituent office of the Land Cork 2.8 Registry and the Registry of Deeds. I recently Donegal 16.5 announced proposals to convert this organisation Dublin 3.3 into a new body to be called the Property Regis- tration Authority. In this regard the Waterford Galway 10.7 office will continue to function in its current role. Kerry 6.8 Kildare 1.1 Semi-State Bodies. Kilkenny 12.3 172. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, Laois 8.5 Equality and Law Reform the number of staff in Leitrim 13.1 each grade at the Land Registry Office, Water- Limerick 7.2 ford; and if he will make a statement on the Longford 11.0 matter. [15803/05] Louth 5.7 Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Mayo 10.8 (Mr. McDowell): The information requested by Meath 8.5 the Deputy is set out in the following table. Monaghan 7.1 Offaly 10.4 Waterford Staff at 30 April, 2005. Roscommon 6.5 Grade Serving Sligo 6.2 Tipperary 7.4 Deputy Registrar** 2 Waterford 3.2 Mapping Advisor 1 Westmeath 8.4 Principal Officer — Level 2 1 Wexford 9.9 Chief Examiner of Titles (P.O. 1) 1 Wicklow 1.4 Examiner of Titles (P.O. 2) 3 Assistant Principal 6.2 I am further informed by the Registrar of Titles Higher Executive Officer 14.4 that this information was calculated on the fol- lowing basis. Executive Officer 41.1 The total number of dealings on hands in the Staff Officer 5 Land Registry at 30 April 2005 was 156,947. Of Clerical Officer 80 these, 38,833 were the subject of queries and Head Services Officer 1 cannot be proceeded with until a satisfactory Services Officer (P/K allowance) 4.5 reply is received. The “live” arrear was therefore 118,114. The total number of cases completed Chief Superintendent of Mapping 2 from 1 January to 30 April 2005 was 73,197 or Regional Mapping Director 4 18,300 per month. Therefore the overall national Superintendent of Mapping 5 average waiting time in respect of the “live” Examiner in Charge 6 arrear is 6.45 months. Examiner of Maps 19.4 The length of time taken to complete cases var- Draughtsperson 10.1 ies depending on a number of factors, including the complexity of the case, investigation of title Total 206.7 requirements, the completeness of the docu- mentation presented, mapping requirements, the **One of the deputy registrars serving in the Waterford office volume of business being transacted, the level of was recently promoted to a new post of deputy registrar for the purpose of decentralising to Roscommon. He is serving in resources available at any particular time and the Waterford in a temporary capacity pending relocation for the time at which the present computerised system purposes of the decentralisation programme. was introduced in the Land Registry office for each county. Where a case is urgent and this is 811 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 812

[Mr. McDowell.] addition, the person concerned has not herself brought to the attention of the Land Registry made an application for consideration to remain office, in accordance with its customer service under the revised arrangements. Rather it was policy the matter is dealt with expeditiously. made on her behalf by a relative and, further- more, the application form was incomplete. Semi-State Bodies. Given that this was one of the last application forms received and that applications are dealt 174. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, with insofar as is possible in order of receipt, it Equality and Law Reform the proposals he has will be some weeks before this case is processed to provide additional staff to eliminate staff to conclusion. However, on the basis of the infor- shortages at the Land Registry office, Waterford; mation available from the incomplete application, and if he will make a statement on the matter. it is unlikely that permission to remain will be [15805/05] granted. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar Crime Levels. of Titles that nearly all of the posts currently sanctioned for the Land Registry and the Regis- 178. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, try of Deeds are filled. Equality and Law Reform the crime statistics for The level of staff allocated to any particular the Carlow town area for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 area within the organisation, including the Water- and 2004; if he will consider increasing the ford office, is kept under constant review in the number of gardaı´ at the Carlow Garda station light of prevailing circumstances and the volume due to the rapidly increasing population; and if he of work to be processed. I understand that there will make a statement on the matter. [15809/05] are no plans to make any further assignments to 179. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, the Waterford office in the near future. Equality and Law Reform the crime statistics for the Bagenalstown area, County Carlow, for 2000, Question No. 175 answered with Question 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004; if he will consider No. 161. establishing a full time Garda station in the area due to the rapidly increasing population; and if he Decentralisation Programme. will make a statement on the matter. [15810/05] 176. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Justice, 180. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the proposals he has to Equality and Law Reform the crime statistics for locate senior management at the Land Registry the Borris area, County Carlow, for 2000, 2001, office, Waterford; and if he will make a statement 2002, 2003 and 2004; if he will consider estab- on the matter. [15807/05] lishing a full time Garda station in the area, due Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the rapidly increasing population; and if he will (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar make a statement on the matter. [15811/05] of Titles that a significant number of senior man- 181. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, agement and operational positions are located in Equality and Law Reform the crime statistics for the Land Registry’s office in Waterford and that the Tullow area, County Carlow, for 2000, 2001, there are no plans to make any additional assign- 2002, 2003 and 2004; if he will consider estab- ments in the near future. I am further informed lishing a full time Garda station in the area due that the numbers in each constituent office are to the rapidly increasing population; and if he will proportionate to the tasks undertaken and are make a statement on the matter. [15812/05] kept under constant review in the light of prevail- ing circumstances and the volume of work to be Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform processed by each unit. (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions Nos. 178 to 181, inclusive, together. Asylum Applications. In relation to crime figures the Deputy will be aware that on becoming Minister for Justice, 177. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, I arranged for the Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will publication of headline crime statistics on a quar- expedite the processing of an application by a terly basis in order to improve the quality of person (details supplied). [15808/05] information available to the public. While caution Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should be exercised in interpreting levels of crime (Mr. McDowell): An application form for per- between quarters, I am pleased to note that dur- mission to remain in the State on the basis of ing my term of office as Minister, the quarterly parentage of an Irish born child under the revised crime rate has decreased from 6.7 per 1,000 popu- arrangements, was made on behalf of the person lation to 6 per 1,000 over the longer period of 11 concerned by a third party and received in my quarters for which figures are available. This Department on 1 April 2005. trend is reflected throughout most Garda districts The revised arrangements apply to persons in the country. In interpreting these figures, who are currently resident in the State and have account has also to be taken of the introduction been resident in the State with their Irish born of the new PULSE computer system by the child on a continuous basis since the child’s birth. Garda Sı´ocha´na in 1999, which led to more com- In this case the person concerned is currently resi- plete and comprehensive recording of crimes dent in Australia with her Irish born child. In reported than was previously the case. The 813 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 814

Deputy will also wish to be aware that, taking the Garda Sı´ocha´na to tackle serious crime effec- into account the significant increase in our popu- tively. These specialist units work very closely lation since 1995, the headline crime rate has with gardaı´ operating at district and divisional fallen from 29 per 1,000 population in 1995 to 25 level. per 1,000 population in 2004. In relation to Garda resources generally, I am The following tables show the headline very pleased that the Government has approved offences, for the years 2000 to 2004 inclusive, for my proposal to increase the strength of the Garda the Carlow Garda district which covers the Bag- Sı´ocha´na to 14,000 members on a phased basis, in enalstown area, the Baltinglass Garda district, line with the An Agreed Programme for Govern- which covers the Tullow area, and the Thomas- ment commitment in this regard. This is a key town Garda district, which covers the Borris area. commitment in the programme for Government, The number of Garda personnel assigned to and its implementation will significantly each station, together with overall policing strengthen the operational capacity of the force. arrangements and operational strategy, is con- The Commissioner will now be drawing up plans on how best to distribute and manage these tinually monitored and reviewed. Such monitor- additional resources. Clearly, the additional ing ensures that optimum use is made of Garda resources will be targeted at the areas of greatest resources, and the best possible Garda service is need, as is envisaged in the programme for provided to the general public. In this regard, I Government. The programme identifies in part- should like to mention that in addition to the icular areas with a significant drugs problem and specific resources available to stations, there has a large number of public order offences but it will also been a considerable increase since 1997 in be possible to address other priorities as well, the number of gardaı´ serving in national units. such as the need to very significantly increase the Specialist Garda units such as the Garda National number of gardaı´ allocated to traffic duties as Drugs Unit, the National Bureau of Criminal part of the new Garda traffic corps. I have Investigation, the Criminal Assets Bureau and already promised that the additional gardaı´ will the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation not be put on administrative duties. They will be operating under the assistant commissioner in put directly into front line, operational, high-visi- charge of national support services has enabled bility policing. They will have a real impact.

Table 1

Headline Offences Recorded and Detected for Carlow Garda district from 2000 to 2004*

Year 2004* 2003 2002 2001 2000

Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec

Homicide 0 0 0 0 001133 Assault 60 35 65 48 84 71 38 31 15 14 Sexual Offences 28 16 75 57 44 31 18 14 10 6 Arson 9 1 20 1 11353133 Drugs 22 22 23 22 9 9 21 21 12 12 Thefts 616 249 575 195 467 149 351 139 321 148 Burglary 423 39 460 39 453 42 359 44 441 79 Robbery 19 4 30 9 26 14 18 5 17 4 Fraud 42 28 48 36 55 33 112 96 117 106 Other 18 10 18 16 27 24 10932

Total 1,237 404 1,314 423 1,176 376 933 363 952 377 *Statistics for 2004 are provisional-operational and liable to change.

Table 2

Headline Offences Recorded and Detected for Baltinglass Garda district from 2000 to 2004*

Year 2004* 2003 2002 2001 2000

Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec

Homicide 0 0 0 0 000000 Assault 15 10 29 16 28 213333 Sexual Offences 16 8 11 2 24 14 18 17 6 6 Arson 11 1 3 0 517692 Drugs 2 2 6 6 115511 Thefts 343 60 315 51 226 21 142 57 184 70 815 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 816

Year 2004* 2003 2002 2001 2000

Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec

Burglary 332 33 256 14 275 30 207 24 182 28 Robbery 9 2 2 0 635320 Fraud 26 20 11 10 15 4 27 24 38 34 Other 9 7 7 5 876533

Total 763 143 640 104 588 102 420 144 428 147 *Statistics for 2004 are provisional-operational and liable to change.

Table 3

Headline Offences Recorded and Detected for Thomastown Garda district from 2000 to 2004*

Year 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004*

Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec Rec Dec

Homicide 0 0 0 0 000011 Assault 4 4 5 5 10 105544 Sexual Offences 0 0 3 2 14 14 20 19 2 2 Arson 2 0 1 0 111122 Drugs 2 2 3 3 883322 Thefts 102 31 99 36 70 25 52 17 62 12 Burglary 90 11 99 12 72 15 85 15 126 30 Robbery 0 0 4 1 111100 Fraud 70 68 21 20 23 23 25 25 12 10 Other 4 3 2 2 224400

Total 274 119 237 81 201 99 196 90 211 63 *Statistics for 2004 are provisional-operational and liable to change.

Fairtrade Products. Justice, Equality and Law Reform the reason the 182. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Justice, equality legislation which bars unequal treatment Equality and Law Reform the extent to which his in the workplace for persons aged 16 and over Department sources Fairtrade products for use in makes an exception to allow lower payment of same. [15826/05] wages to persons under 18; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that this exception has Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform resulted in situations in which workers supporting (Mr. McDowell): I wish to inform the Deputy themselves at age 17 are being paid significantly that products acquired by my Department are less than their 18 year old colleagues; and if he purchased in accordance with established will consider introducing amending legislation to Government procurement guidelines. It is not redress this imbalance. [15851/05] feasible to identify the extent to which the type of products referred to have been purchased in Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the course of applying these guidelines. (Mr.: McDowell): The Employment Equality Act 1998 prohibited discrimination in vocational Appointments to State Boards. training and employment on nine grounds includ- ing the ground of age. Section 6(3) of the Act 183. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Justice, confined the application of the age ground to per- Equality and Law Reform the current nomi- sons aged between 18 and 65 years. Following nations for vacancies on boards of statutory agen- amendments to the Employment Equality Act cies under the remit of his Department. [15840/05] 1998 under the Equality Act 2004, the purpose of which, inter alia, was to give effect to Directive Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 2000/78/EC establishing a general framework for (Mr. McDowell): I can inform the Deputy that equal treatment in employment and occupation, the Censorship of Publications Board and the both the 18 and 65 year age limits have been Private Security Authority, which are under the removed and the provisions of the Act on the age remit of my Department, currently have one vac- ground are now extended to persons who have ancy each. reached the maximum age at which there is a statutory obligation to attend school. Equality Legislation. At the same time, Article 6.1 of the directive 184. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for permits differences of treatment on the ground of 817 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 818 age if, within the context of national law they are Asylum Applications. objectively and reasonably justified by a legit- 186. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, imate aim, including legitimate employment Equality and Law Reform the residency status in policy, labour market and vocational training the case of a person (details supplied) in Dublin objectives, and if the means of achieving that aim 1; and if he will make a statement on the are appropriate and necessary. In this regard, matter. [15857/05] with respect to the employment rights of younger employees, the provisions of both the National Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Minimum Wage Act 2000 and the Protection of (Mr. McDowell): The person concerned arrived Young Persons (Employment) Act 1996 are sub- in the State on 22 April 1999 and applied for asy- ject to exclusions under section 17(4) of the lum. His application was refused following con- Employment Equality Act as amended. The set- sideration of his case by the Office of the Refugee ting of minimum hourly rates of pay under the Applications Commissioner and, on appeal, by National Minimum Wage Act 2000 is a matter for the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Subsequently, in accordance with section 3 of Employment. the Immigration Act 1999, as amended, he was informed by letter dated 29 August 2002 that the Deportation Orders. Minister proposed to make a deportation order in respect of him. He was given the options, to 185. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, be exercised within 15 working days, of making Equality and Law Reform if he will reconsider on representations to the Minister setting out the humanitarian or compassionate grounds his reasons he should be allowed to remain tempor- decision to deport persons (details supplied) in arily in the State; leaving the State before an County Kildare; and if he will make a statement order is made; or consenting to the making of a on the matter. [15856/05] deportation order. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform This person’s case file, including all represen- (Mr. McDowell): The persons concerned, a tations submitted, will be considered under Bosnian national and three Croatian nationals, section 3(6) of the Immigration Act 1999, as arrived in the State on 28 May 2001 and 4 July amended, and section 5 of the Refugee Act 1996, 2001 respectively and claimed asylum. Their prohibition of refoulement applications were refused following a first instance determination by the Office of the Refu- Citizenship Applications. gee Applications Commissioner which was 187. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, upheld, at appeal, by the Office of the Refugee Equality and Law Reform the position in relation Appeals Tribunal on 30 June 2003. to the application for citizenship in the case of a They were notified of the decision to refuse person (details supplied) in County Kildare; and them refugee status by letters dated 30 July 2003 if he will make a statement on the matter. and 13 August 2003 in which they were informed [15858/05] of the three options open to them at that point, that is, to leave the State before their cases were Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform considered for deportation; consent to the mak- (Mr. McDowell): An application for a certificate ing of deportation orders in respect of them; or of naturalisation by the person referred to by the make written representations, within 15 working Deputy was originally received in the citizenship days, to the Minister for Justice, Equality and section of my Department in December 2004. Law Reform setting out the reasons they should The application was returned at that stage as the not be deported, namely, why they should be statutory declaration was not completed properly. allowed to remain temporarily in the State. The form was resubmitted in March 2005 Their cases were examined under section 3 of through the Deputy’s office but, unfortunately, it the Immigration Act 1999 and section 5 of the was still incorrect. The form has been returned Refugee Act 1996, prohibition of refoulement.On once more to the applicant for rectification. 27 April 2005, deportation orders were made in Every statutory declaration must be signed by the respect of them. This decision was made follow- person making it in the presence of the person ing a full and comprehensive examination of the before whom it is made. In this case, the declar- family’s case, including consideration of represen- ation was signed by the applicant four months tations received on their behalf from the refugee prior to the date of its attestation by the person legal service for temporary leave to remain in the before whom it was made. State. Notice of the orders were served by regis- Processing of such applications takes an aver- tered post requiring them to present themselves age of 24 months from the time a valid appli- to the Garda national immigration bureau today cation is received. Thursday, 12 May 2005 for travel arrangements to be put in place to effect their return. Family Law Legislation. The enforcement of the deportation orders is 188. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for now an operational matter for the Garda national Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will immigration bureau. report on the impact proposals on family law, in 819 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 820

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] judicial co-operation in civil matters. Measures particular with regard to divorce, emanating from are only permitted by the treaty to the extent that Europe, will have on domestic law here; and if he they have cross border implications and are will make a statement on the matter. [15879/05] necessary for the functioning of the internal market, Articles 65 and 67 of the TEC. 189. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if Irish divorce I also wish to assure the House that Ireland’s laws will be diluted as a result of proposals on entitlement to opt into civil law measures is pre- family law, in particular with regard to divorce, served by the Constitutional Treaty, Protocol 19. emanating from Europe; and if he will make a Likewise, decision-making by unanimity is statement on the matter. [15881/05] retained for the purposes of family law measures. The relevant provisions of the Constitutional 190. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Treaty also continue to relate measures in the Justice, Equality and Law Reform if proposals on civil law area to matters having cross border family law, in particular with regard to divorce, implications and the proper functioning of the emanating from Europe, will require an amend- internal market as well as on the basis of the prin- ment to Irish legislation; and if he will make a ciple of mutual recognition. The Constitutional statement on the matter. [15882/05] Treaty also provides that unanimity will apply in 191. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for relation to the adoption of legislative instruments Justice, Equality and Law Reform when pro- in the field of judicial co-operation in civil matters posals on family, in particular with regard to div- which are concerned with family law with cross- orce, emanating from Europe, will become effec- border implications, Constitutional Treaty Article tive; and if he will make a statement on the III-269. While the Constitutional Treaty provides matter. [15883/05] for the possibility of a change in the decision making arrangements for this purpose to quali- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform fied majority voting and co-decision with the (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions European Parliament, this again can only occur Nos. 188 to 191, inclusive, together. by unanimous decision, Article III-269(3). I assume the Deputy is referring to the Green The Commission has invited interested parties Paper on applicable law and jurisdiction in div- to submit comments to them on the Green Paper orce matters published by the European Com- before 30 September 2005. mission on 14 March 2005. The purpose of the In accordance with Oireachtas scrutiny paper is to launch a wide-ranging consultation arrangements, the Green Paper has been laid with interested parties on possible measures to before both Houses of the Oireachtas. It has been be taken at Community level so as to create a referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, procedure which would operate throughout the Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights for infor- EU on the question of applicable law and juris- mation and consideration and also to the Joint diction in divorce matters which have a cross- Committee on Social and Family Affairs. border dimension. The text of the Green Paper is The Government will convey its view on the available on the European Commission’s matter to the Commission in advance of the website:http://www.europa.eu.int/comm/justice— September deadline. The Government’s starting home/news/consulting—public/news—consulting— point will be that any measures that may be taken public—en.htm. I wish to emphasise that the in this area will not be allowed to undermine our Green Paper is not a legal instrument. It is merely existing domestic law on divorce. However, I a mechanism to launch a wide-ranging consul- should like to make clear that the Green Paper tation. It goes without saying, therefore, that it does not contain any proposal to harmonise the has no impact on Ireland’s family law including laws of member states on divorce. our divorce law. Indeed, the Commission Green With regard to other proposals on family law Paper itself acknowledges that among possible emanating from the EU, the Commission pub- ways forward is no change in the status quo on lished a Green Paper on maintenance obligations the basis that the issue does not warrant Com- in April 2004 and a Green Paper on succession munity action. and wills in March 2005. The purpose in both The treaty provisions governing judicial co- cases is the launch of a wide-ranging consultation. operation in civil law matters provide that Ireland Both papers have been laid before the Houses has an opt in to measures in this area, either when of the Oireachtas in accordance with Oireachtas a proposal is tabled or following its adoption. scrutiny arrangements. The latter paper has been Were the Commission to come forward with pro- referred recently to the Joint Committee on posals arising from the Green Paper, which is by Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights no means certain, any exercise of an opt in by for information. Ireland to the measure is subject to Article 29.4.6 of the Constitution which requires prior approval Departmental Correspondence. of both Houses of the Oireachtas. Ireland is not bound by any measure to which it does not opt 192. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for in. Furthermore, the relevant treaty provisions Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he has provide for decision making by unanimity in received correspondence from a person (details relation to all family law measures in the field of supplied); if he intends to act on the requests 821 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 822 made in same; and if he will make a statement on supplied) in Dublin 9; and if she will make a state- the matter. [15891/05] ment on the matter. [15731/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform 197. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for (Mr. McDowell): A response has issued to the Education and Science if she has satisfied herself correspondence of 10 November 2003. The with the spending of taxpayers’ money at matters raised in the more recent correspondence institutes of education (details supplied) in referred to by the Deputy are currently under Dublin 9; and if all funds are accounted for in a consideration. professional manner. [15732/05] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Vocational Education Committees. Hanafin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 195 193. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Edu- to 197, inclusive, together. cation and Science, further to Question No. 891 As the Deputy is well aware, the head of the of 12 April 2005 (details supplied), if the inquiry college covered by the Deputy’s questions, has been finalised; if a copy of the report will be resigned from that position on Friday, 29 April. made available to interested parties as soon as Arising from this development and various possible; and if she will make a statement on the related matters I have asked that one of the coun- matter. [15728/05] try’s leading independent accountancy firms examine the question of the use of moneys paid Minister for Education and Science (Ms by my Department to the institution in question. Hanafin): As indicated in my reply to Question I have also asked that a report be prepared as No. 891 of 12 April 2005, issues were raised with promptly as possible and that the outcome be my Department regarding the terms of reference presented to me once completed. I intend to of the inquiry referred to by the Deputy. make its findings public. At this stage, there is I have been advised that the terms of reference nothing to show that funding provided by my of the inquiry were ultra vires. Accordingly, I Department to the institution in question has not decided that the best way to proceed was to been applied solely and properly for its intended terminate the original inquiry and to establish a purposes, but it is important to secure confir- new inquiry with new terms of reference. County mation that this is the case. Clare Vocational Education Committee was I also commend the staff of the institution in informed of this decision. I am satisfied that the question and acknowledge that they are ensuring new inquiry’s terms of reference come within the that the education of students is of paramount scope of an inquiry under the Vocational Edu- importance. Despite the current difficulties at the cation Act 1930. I understand that the officer con- institution, they continue to provide a properly ducting the inquiry is taking steps to contact all professional service to students. I have been relevant persons and intends to conclude the assured that the lectures, teaching practice and inquiry as speedily as possible. examinations are proceeding as planned. The recent reported difficulties at the insti- Grant Payments. tution in question relate to the employee- 194. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for employer relationship between the head of the Education and Science the amount of public college and that person’s employers, which, I money granted to an institute of education understand, were subject to legal proceedings. In (details supplied) in Dublin 9 in 2004-05; and if this regard, it is not considered appropriate for she will make a statement on the matter. me to make any comment on them. [15729/05] Apart from the provision of funding, my Minister for Education and Science (Ms Department also has a role regarding the quality Hanafin): My Department provided a total of of graduates from the college. This role is similar \5,063,335 to the institute referred to by the to its role vis-a`-vis other State-supported colleges Deputy in the 2004-05 year to date. The funding of this nature. My Department’s inspectorate provided by my Department to the institute in actively monitors the quality of the graduates on question covers a range of activities and services an ongoing basis to ensure that the highest quality from pre-service education to continual pro- students graduate from all colleges of this nature. fessional development of teachers. This is a well-established monitoring process and one, which has worked very well. Industrial Relations. Senior officials from my Department met the trustees and a number of members of the board 195. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for of governors of the institute in question yesterday Education and Science if she has satisfied herself and have been assured by them that all monies that the board at an institute of education (details provided by my Department have been applied supplied) has always acted in a responsible man- for the purpose for which they are allocated. ner regarding staff relations, public funding and the general running of the college. [15730/05] Special Educational Needs. 196. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for 198. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Edu- Education and Science her views on the loss of cation and Science if correspondence has been quality staff at an institute of education (details brought to her attention (details supplied); the 823 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 824

[Mr. Lowry.] manent posts in primary schools from September steps she will take to rectify the matter and pro- next. A further 320 posts will be provided on a vide the necessary staff outlined in the correspon- temporary basis to facilitate the transition to the dence; and if she will make a statement on the new system and to ensure continuity of service matter. [15733/05] for children who have previously been given an individual allocation until those children leave Minister for Education and Science (Ms the primary school system. It is a matter for the Hanafin): The correspondence referred to by the school to make arrangements to provide teaching Deputy relates to special needs assistant support support to those pupils who qualify for such sup- for a specific pupil. My Department has recently port from its GA allocation. sanctioned a special needs assistant post to the My Department is now devising school clusters school, which the pupil is attending. This decision in respect of allocations to be made under the was conveyed to the school in April 2005. GA system. These will be notified to schools 199. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for Edu- shortly along with the details of each school’s cation and Science if a special needs assistant will individual allocation. This communication will be sanctioned for a primary school (details clarify the position regarding the resource and supplied) in County Clare. [15751/05] learning support allocation available to the school referred to by the Deputy. My Department is also Minister for Education and Science (Ms finalising a circular for schools, which will contain Hanafin): The Deputy may be aware that the detailed information on how the new system will recently established National Council for Special operate. It is intended that this circular will issue Education, NCSE, which has been operational before the end of the current school year. since 1 January 2005, is responsible for processing My Department has been advised by the applications for special educational needs, SEN, SENO that the pupil has been granted the ser- supports. Some 71 special educational needs vices of a full time special needs assistant, SNA. organisers, SENOs, have been recruited through- The school authorities were notified accordingly out the country and will be a focal point of con- on 21 April 2005. tact for schools and parents. My Department’s officials have been informed Schools Building Projects. by the NCSE that a number of applications have 201. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- been received for special needs assistant supports cation and Science when she will announce the from the school concerned including the pupil schools which will progress under public private referred to by the Deputy. The matter has been partnership; the reason no announcement has referred to the local SENO who will be in direct been made to date; if she still intends to progress contact with the school authorities shortly. under this model in 2005; and if she will make a 200. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Edu- statement on the matter. [15761/05] cation and Science the progress to date on the Minister for Education and Science (Ms review for resource teaching and special needs Hanafin): I refer the Deputy to my answer to assistant for a person (details supplied) in County Questions Nos. 396 and 421 of 10 May 2005. Kilkenny. [15760/05] Site Acquisitions. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): As the Deputy is aware, the application 202. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- for special educational teaching support for the cation and Science when the site purchase will be pupil concerned was referred to the local special completed for a school (details supplied) in educational needs organiser, SENO, for determi- County Offaly; the reason for the delay to date; nation. The SENO examined the application and and if she will make a statement on the expressed the opinion that the pupil’s special edu- matter. [15762/05] cational needs appear to be within the high incid- Minister for Education and Science (Ms ence disability category and therefore does not Hanafin): The contract for the purchase of the qualify for individual hours resource teaching site for the school referred to by the Deputy is support. with the Office of the Chief State Solicitor. It is With regard to teaching supports for pupils expected that the purchase will be concluded within the high incidence categories, my Depart- shortly. ment has now completed its review of the general allocation, GA, system of resource teaching sup- Schools Building Projects. port. The new model replaces the one notified to schools in June 2004, which has been reviewed to 203. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Edu- take account of difficulties that it may have cation and Science when her Department will caused for smaller schools. Some 660 additional report on the findings submitted to the building special needs teaching posts will be put in place section on 15 April 2005 by the technical group in primary schools from next September to facili- appointed by her Department following the tate the implementation of the new GA system. examination of the sites of two schools (details The introduction of this new system will involve supplied) in County Laois; when a decision will the provision of an estimated additional 340 per- be made on whether a new school will be pro- 825 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 826 vided; and if she will make a statement on the shortly. In the meantime, funding provided to the matter. [15763/05] school from the grant scheme for minor works should be used to address immediate health and Minister for Education and Science (Ms safety concerns at the school. Hanafin): Technical assessment of the two schools in question was carried out by officials in Fairtrade Products. the planning and building section of my Depart- ment to ascertain which, if any, would be suitable 206. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Edu- to act as host for the new school concerned. This cation and Science the extent to which her report is being examined to determine the most Department sources Fairtrade products for use in suitable cost-effective accommodation solution. same. [15827/05] A decision will be made shortly and the project Minister for Education and Science (Ms will be progressed in the context of the school Hanafin): My Department is currently looking at building programme from 2005 onwards. the availability of Fairtrade products and the feasibility of their use in its offices. The potential School Accommodation. use of those products would probably be confined 204. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Edu- to our staff restaurants, and the issue has been cation and Science the action she proposes to raised with the catering managers in our Dublin, take in respect of renovation required at a school Athlone and Tullamore offices. (details supplied) in Dublin 15; if her attention I will be also open to the potential use of other has been drawn to the extreme pressures on staff Fairtrade products that may become available, and pupils caused by lack of space and severe subject to the normal criteria of suitability and overcrowding; and if she will make a statement value for money. on the matter. [15780/05] Appointments to State Boards. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): Last year my Department received an 207. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Edu- application from the authorities of the school cation and Science the current nominations for referred to by the Deputy for the provision of vacancies on boards of statutory agencies under a general purpose room, resource rooms, multi- the remit of her Department. [15841/05] purpose room and storage space. That application Minister for Education and Science (Ms was assessed in accordance with the published Hanafin): Currently the following appointments prioritisation criteria for large-scale building pro- are due to be considered in respect of the boards jects, which were revised following consultation of statutory bodies under my remit: governing with the education partners. The project will be body, Dundalk Institute of Technology, 17 progressed in the context of the school building appointments; governing body, Limerick Institute and modernisation programme for 2005 to 2009. of Technology, 17 appointments; governing body, I am pleased to confirm that the school con- Institute of Technology, Tralee, 17 appointments; cerned was successful in securing funding towards governing body, Carlow Institute of Technology, the partial replacement of windows under the one appointment; Further Education and Train- summer works scheme 2005. The school also ing Awards Council, or FETAC, two appoint- received a grant of \225,000 in 2004 towards the ments; Higher Education and Training Awards replacement of windows. Council, or HETAC, one appointment; Dublin With regard to the specific incident referred to Institute for Advanced Studies, or DIAS, 36 by the Deputy, the school building section of my appointments; and National Council for Special Department is awaiting further information from Education, or NCSE, one appointment. the school management authority and will con- The process for making those appointments is sider the matter further when that information ongoing and in line with the relevant statutory has been received. provisions in each case.

Schools Refurbishment. Higher Education Grants. 205. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for 208. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for Education and Science the reason a school Education and Science the situation with regard (details supplied) in County Cork will not be to the eligibility of students for third level grants awarded a grant for yard resurfacing. [15781/05] at an institute of technology (details supplied); if Minister for Education and Science (Ms students at this college are eligible for third level Hanafin): The management authority of the grants without the college having to go through school to which the Deputy refers made an appli- the HETAC; and if she will make a statement on cation under the summer works scheme for 2005. the matter. [15847/05] Owing to the level of demand for funding for Minister for Education and Science (Ms higher-priority projects, unfortunately, it was not Hanafin): The higher education grants scheme possible to fund the project in question this year. operates under the Local Authorities (Higher It is open to the school’s management authority Education Grants) Acts 1968 to 1992. An “ap- to re-apply for funding under the 2006 summer proved institution” is defined to mean a univer- works scheme, details of which will be announced sity, college or other institution of higher edu- 827 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 828

[Ms Hanafin.] increased to a full-time post; and if she will make cation in so far as it provides a course or courses a statement on the matter. [15850/05] of not less than two years’ duration at undergrad- uate level and not less than one year’s duration Minister for Education and Science (Ms at postgraduate level, being a course or courses Hanafin): I trust that the Deputy is aware that my of which the Minister for Education and Science Department has now completed its review of the approves for the time being for the purposes of general allocation, or GA, system of resource the Acts. teaching support. The new model replaces that The annual higher education grants scheme which was notified to schools in June 2004, which sets out a list of approved institutions for the pur- has been reviewed to take account of difficulties poses of the scheme. The approved institutions that it may have caused for smaller schools. mainly comprise the publicly funded third level I can confirm that 660 additional special needs institutions. However, several religious and other teaching posts will be put in place in primary institutions have been admitted to the scheme schools from next September to facilitate the over the years. implementation of the new GA system. Milltown Institute of Theology and Philosophy, The introduction of the new system will involve Dublin, is included in the list of approved colleges the provision of an estimated additional 340 per- under my Department’s 2004 higher education manent posts in primary schools from September grants scheme in respect of the following courses: next. A further 320 posts are being provided on national certificate in philosophical studies, a a temporary basis to facilitate the transition to the two-year, full-time course; Bachelor of Arts in new system and to ensure continuity of service philosophy; BA in theology and philosophy; BA for children who have previously been given an in theology and pastoral care, a four-year, full- individual allocation until those children leave time course; BA in theology and anthropology, the primary school system. from 2003-04, a four-year, full-time course; gradu- My Department is now devising school clusters ate diploma in spirituality, a one-year postgradu- in respect of allocations to be made under the ate course; graduate diploma in applied spiritu- GA system. Those will be notified to schools ality, a one-year postgraduate course; MA in shortly, along with the details of each school’s spirituality, a two-year postgraduate course; MA individual allocation. That communication will in philosophy by research and thesis; MA in the- clarify the position regarding the resource and ology by research and thesis; MA in biblical stud- learning support allocation available to the school ies; MA in faith and culture studies, from 2003- referred to by the Deputy. My Department is also 04, a one-year full-time course; PhD in philos- finalising a circular for schools which will contain ophy; and PhD in theology. detailed information on how the new system will Candidates intending to pursue any of the operate. It is intended that the circular will be approved courses at the institute are advised to issued before the end of the current school year. contact their local authority with a view to being assessed for grant assistance. Special Educational Needs. My Department, to date, has received no rep- resentations from Milltown Institute of Theology, 211. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- Dublin, regarding the inclusion of additional cation and Science when the necessary funds will courses under the 2005 higher education grant be made available to a school (details supplied) scheme. in County Kildare to meet the special needs teachers’ assistants; and if she will make a state- School Transport. ment on the matter. [15852/05] 209. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Edu- Minister for Education and Science (Ms cation and Science if a decision has been made on Hanafin): As the Deputy is aware, the school was the application for school transport for children advised recently that the pupil in question did not residing in the Barracore and Doninga areas of meet the criteria for special needs assistant, or County Kilkenny. [15849/05] SNA, support, as insufficient evidence of care Minister for Education and Science (Ms needs was presented with the application. Hanafin): My Department has received a report Additional supporting information has since been from the relevant transport liaison officer, or received in my Department, and that was for- TLO, regarding transport for pupils from the Bar- warded to the National Council for Special Edu- racore and Doninga areas. The TLO has been cation, or NCSE, for consideration. The local requested to provide further information regard- special educational organiser, or SENO, will ing the case. The Deputy will be advised of the make direct contact with the school shortly position as soon as possible. regarding the matter. The pupil is currently receiving 3.5 hours resource teaching support. School Staffing. School Placement. 210. Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science if a school (details supplied) 212. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- in County Galway will retain its full-time cation and Science the progress of the application resource post and have its learning support by a person (details supplied) in County Kildare; 829 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 830 and if she will make a statement on the 2003-2005, Sustaining Progress, provided for matter. [15853/05] modernisation of the education sector. As part of the modernisation process, arrangements with Minister for Education and Science (Ms regard to standardised mid-term breaks and Hanafin): My Department has not received any holiday periods at Christmas and Easter were notification that the person referred to by the agreed following discussions at the Teachers’ Deputy has been refused enrolment to the school Conciliation Council which involved union and in question. My Department has requested the management interests. National Educational Welfare Board, or NEWB, Once schools adhere to the agreed standardis- to contact the parents of the person referred to ation, they have local flexibility in determining by the Deputy. The NEWB is the statutory how they make up the required number of teach- agency which can assist parents who are experi- ing days, 183 days in respect of primary and 167 encing difficulty in securing a school place for days in respect of post-primary schools. The their child. My Department has also written to Department does not centrally determine the parents informing them of their right, under whether a school opts to have a closure for any section 29 of the Education Act 1998, to appeal a particular event once the overall number of decision by any recognised school to refuse enrol- teaching days has been delivered by the school ment to their child. over the course of the year. That approach aims Section 29 of the Education Act 1998 provides to strike a balance between allowing schools parents with an appeal process where a board of some local discretion while at the same time management of a school or a person acting on ensuring that pupils get their full entitlement to behalf of the board refuses enrolment to a education. It is, of course, essential that there be student. Where a school refuses to enrol a pupil, the greatest possible consultation with parents the school is obliged to inform parents of their and that sufficient notice be given regarding any right under section 29 of the Education Act 1998 school closure. to appeal that decision to the Secretary General Schools may use their discretionary days, of my Department. Where an appeal under where available, to determine the precise start section 29 is upheld, the Secretary General of my and end of the school year. However, it is recog- Department may direct a school to enrol a pupil. nised that the commencement of certificate exam- Information regarding the section 29 appeals inations will mean that post-primary schools will procedures, including an appeals application form not be open for tuition beyond the Friday preced- and contact details for the relevant section of my ing the June bank holiday in any year. The expec- Department, has been sent to the parent of the tation is that to meet the overall requirement of student referred to by the Deputy. To date, no a minimum of 183 days at primary level or 167 at such appeal has been lodged with my Depart- post-primary level the school year will normally ment. The parent has also been advised to contact commence in the week that 1 September falls. the senior educational welfare officer for the area In reality, most post-primary schools would not to seek assistance in the matter. have any discretionary days but where they do, the arrangements provide some limited flexibility Departmental Properties. to schools on certain other days outside the 213. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- defined periods. cation and Science if approval will be given for the use of the Christian Brothers’ monastery, Special Educational Needs. Kilcock, County Kildare as a St. Vincent de Paul 215. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Edu- centre; and if she will make a statement on the cation and Science if a special needs assistant will matter. [15854/05] be provided for a person (details supplied) in Minister for Education and Science (Ms County Westmeath; if consideration will be given Hanafin): My Department is in the process of to a reassessment of this person; and if she will transferring this property to Kildare County make a statement on the matter. [15892/05] Council as part of a land swap to facilitate a new Minister for Education and Science (Ms primary school in Kilcock. The future use of the Hanafin): I can confirm that my Department property will therefore be a matter for the received an application for special needs assist- council. ant, or SNA, support for the pupil in question. The application is currently being considered, and School Curriculum. a decision will be conveyed to the school in the 214. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Edu- coming days. cation and Science the basis on which schools can With regard to the matter of re-assessment, I declare a free day for students; if her attention understand that a psychologist from the National has been drawn to the fact that such days given Educational Psychological Service will monitor at short notice can cause much inconvenience for the situation when she visits the school shortly. parents; and if she will make a statement on the 216. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Edu- matter. [15890/05] cation and Science when she will take steps to Minister for Education and Science (Ms respond to the report submitted to her Depart- Hanafin): The Social Partnership Agreement ment seeking the provision of a special needs 831 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 832

[Mr. Penrose.] Appointments to State Boards. assistant for a person (details supplied) in County 219. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Defence Westmeath; and if she will make a statement on the current nominations for vacancies on boards the matter. [15893/05] of statutory agencies under the remit of his Department. [15842/05] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): As the Deputy is aware, the school was Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): There is advised on 16 August 2004 that the pupil in ques- one vacancy on the board of Coiste an Asgard, tion did not meet the criteria for special needs which I am in the process of filling. There are assistant, or SNA, support, as there was insuf- no other vacancies on statutory boards under the ficient evidence of care needs. aegis of my Department. The Deputy may also be aware that the National Council for Special Education, or Decentralisation Programme. NCSE, which became operational on 1 January 220. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for the 2005, now processes applications for special edu- Environment, Heritage and Local Government cational needs, or SEN, supports. The NCSE will the position regarding decentralisation to Water- consider any new application for SNA support ford city; and if he will make a statement on the that the school may wish to submit when matter. [15786/05] accompanied by relevant additional information, which may not have been to hand at the time of Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the decision. Local Government (Mr. Roche): My Department My officials have been in contact with the local is co-operating with the Department of Finance, special educational needs organiser, or SENO, the decentralisation implementation group, DIG, who has confirmed that no additional information and the Office of Public Works to ensure the has been received in this case. If additional infor- Government’s decentralisation programme is mation is made available, the SENO will further implemented efficiently and effectively. An review the case and notify the school of the implementation plan, which sets out the broad issues to be addressed in implementing the decen- outcome. tralisation programme for this Department, has been submitted to the DIG. Schools Building Projects. A total of 111 applications had been received 217. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Edu- at the central applications facility, CAF, by the cation and Science, further to an appeal for priority cut-off date of 7 September 2004 in additional grant-aid by a school (details supplied) respect of the 225 posts to be decentralised to in County Westmeath, when the appeal board of Waterford. In accordance with the recommend- three senior officials will meet to consider the ations of the DIG, my Department will set up case made by the board of management in respect small planning groups in conjunction with local of the additional funds required in order that a interests to help facilitate staff locating to Water- top-class primary school is put in place at the ford when the timescale for transfer becomes cle- location; and if she will make a statement on the arer. The Office of Public Works is evaluating site matter. [15894/05] acquisition options in Waterford.

Minister for Education and Science (Ms EU Directives. Hanafin): Appeals in regard to building projects are held on a monthly basis and the school in 221. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for the question will therefore be notified of the outcome Environment, Heritage and Local Government of its appeal by the end of May 2005. when he intends to implement the EU directive on recycling of electronic waste; if his attention Fairtrade Products. has been drawn to the implications involved for independent electrical retailers which have to 218. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Defence compete with UK multiples; if he intends to hold the extent to which his Department sources Fair- consultations with these groups; and if he will trade products for use in same. [15828/05] make a statement on the matter. [15726/05] Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): Procure- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ment by my Department, including the Defence Local Government (Mr. Roche): Draft regu- Forces, must be carried out in accordance with lations which will transpose the directive into Government contracts procedures and European Irish law have been published for consultation. Union directives, under which the award of con- These were prepared by my Department working tracts is primarily based on the quality of the closely with the relevant public sector and indus- product and cost. It is not open to me, therefore, try stakeholders through a dedicated WEEE to favour suppliers of Fairtrade approved prod- taskforce. Retailer interests are represented on ucts over other suppliers in purchases by my this taskforce which was established in February Department. However, such products would be 2003. considered in the normal way if tendered in a It is intended to make regulations early in June procurement competition. 2005 fully transposing this directive’s provisions 833 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 834 and facilitating its full implementation in August 224. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for the 2005 as required. The obligations involved for all Environment, Heritage and Local Government who sell electrical and electronic equipment will when the sewerage scheme will be upgraded in be the same, regardless of whether they are inde- Glin, County Limerick. [15750/05] pendent retailers or multiples, headquartered in or outside the State. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Glin sewer- Social and Affordable Housing. age scheme is included in my Department’s water services investment programme for 2004 to 2006 222. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for the as a scheme to commence construction this year. Environment, Heritage and Local Government My Department awaits Limerick County the reason a bank (details supplied) is the only Council’s proposals for the appointment of con- financial institution available to affordable hous- sultants to prepare the preliminary report for ing applicants; if he will seek other banking insti- the scheme. tutions to make their services available under this scheme; and if he will make a statement on the Social and Affordable Housing. matter. [15727/05] 225. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of affordable houses constructed (Mr. N. Ahern): My Department has been since the inception of the scheme in the Dublin involved in extensive discussions and negotiations local authority areas and throughout the country; for some time with a number of private lending the net cost of the housing units to the eligible institutions with a view to those institutions pro- purchasers; if a profit accrued to the local auth- viding mortgage finance, subject to their normal orities arising from these transactions, taking into lending criteria, to applicants who have been allo- account the original cost of the lands, the cated an affordable housing unit for purchase development cost and the effect of a claw-back under Part V of the Planning and Development and other factors; and if he will make a statement Acts 2000-2004 or the Housing (Miscellaneous on the matter. [15782/05] Provisions) Act 2002. Minister of State at the Department of the While agreement has been reached to date with Environment, Heritage and Local Government just one of the main financial institutions, dis- (Mr. N. Ahern): Information on the number of cussions are ongoing with a number of other lend- housing units provided under the various afford- ers with the intention of securing their agreement able housing schemes in each local authority area to the provision by them of mortgage finance for is published in my Department’s housing statistics affordable housing. I hope these discussions can bulletins, copies of which are available in the be concluded in the near future. Oireachtas Library and on the Department’s website at www.environ.ie. The annual housing Water and Sewerage Schemes. statistics bulletins provide, among other data, 223. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- information on house prices under the shared ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local ownership and the 1999 affordable housing Government the steps he is taking to deal with schemes. the uncontrolled discharge of sewage into rivers, The detailed information sought in regard to in particular into River Caherdaniel in County profits, development costs and the effects of the Kerry; and if he will make a statement on the claw-back are not available to my Department. matter. [15745/05] 226. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Minister for the Environment, Heritage and further to Parliamentary Question No. 273 of 21 Local Government (Mr. Roche): Schemes to the \ April 2005, if his Department approves each indi- value of 27 million to improve wastewater col- vidual scheme of affordable housing; and if he lection and treatment infrastructure in County will make a statement on the matter. [15783/05] Kerry are included in my Department’s water ser- vices investment programme for 2004 to 2006, a Minister of State at the Department of the copy of which is available in the Oireachtas Environment, Heritage and Local Government Library. (Mr. N. Ahern): It is a matter for local authorities The Kerry villages sewerage scheme, which to provide affordable housing through the various includes Caherdaniel, is among the schemes being targeted schemes. These are the shared owner- advanced under the programme. Kerry County ship scheme, the 1999 affordable housing scheme Council has submitted proposals to my Depart- and the provisions of Part V of the Planning and ment for the appointment of consultants to pre- Development Acts 2000 to 2004. My Depart- pare a procurement strategy for this and the other ment’s approval is not required for applications village sewerage schemes contained in the prog- under these schemes. However, where site sub- ramme. The proposal is under examination in the sidy is being applied for under the 1999 afford- Department and will be dealt with as quickly as able housing scheme, Department approval is possible. required as to the level of subsidy payable. Like- 835 Questions— 12 May 2005. Written Answers 836

[Mr. N. Ahern.] organisation, may require a person to live in a wise, moneys collected through Part V agree- particular environment or close to family support. ments may only be expended with the prior sanc- The guidelines stress the need for a balanced tion of my Department. and informed approach by planning authorities in Different arrangements may in some cases assessing the design aspects of proposals and not apply to affordable housing developments on to be overly-prescriptive. They also place a State lands under the Sustaining Progress afford- stronger emphasis on a better and more cour- able housing initiative under which my Depart- teous service from planning authorities and ment will be represented on certain public private improved co-operation between planning auth- partnership project boards set up to approve and orities and applicants, particularly at the pre- manage the larger developments. planning phase of applications. The application of the new guidelines will serve to enhance housing Planning Issues. development in rural areas in a sustainable 227. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for the fashion. Local authorities have been imple- Environment, Heritage and Local Government if menting the draft guidelines since March 2004 he has received indications from the various local and have been asked to implement the finalised authorities that his recently announced planning guidelines since their launch on 13 April 2005. guidelines in respect of rural housing are being I intend that my Department will monitor the implemented; if he has satisfied himself that the effectiveness of the guidelines. My Department is guidelines as announced are likely to be of also making arrangements for a series of regional benefit to the indigenous rural population; and if seminars for local authority planners on the prac- he will make a statement on the matter. tical implementation of the guidelines. The sem- [15784/05] inars will provide practical advice on the imple- mentation of the core provisions of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and guidelines, including preparation of development Local Government (Mr. Roche): My Depart- plan policies, the provision of better support and ment’s guidelines for planning authorities on sus- advice to applicants, and more efficient and com- tainable rural housing came into effect on 13 prehensive consideration of planning April 2005. Their purpose is to support the applications. accommodation of rural housing needs, while ensuring that housing development in rural areas Fairtrade Products. is sustainable in economic, social and environ- mental terms. 228. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for the Draft guidelines were published in March 2004 Environment, Heritage and Local Government to give all those interested an opportunity to com- the extent to which his Department sources Fair- ment before the guidelines were finalised in statu- trade products for use in same. [15829/05] tory form. In the meantime, planning authorities Minister for the Environment, Heritage and were asked to implement the draft guidelines in Local Government (Mr. Roche): My Department exercising their functions under the Planning and does not directly source Fairtrade products for Development Act 2000. My Department received use in its offices. However, the company provid- more than 105 submissions from interested ing catering services in my Department’s head- organisations and individuals in regard to the quarters has made and will continue to make draft guidelines. Many of the suggestions con- available a number of Fairtrade products. tained in the submissions have been incorporated into the final guidelines. Appointments to State Boards. The guidelines provide that reasonable pro- 229. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for the posals on suitable sites for persons who are part Environment, Heritage and Local Government of and contribute to the rural community should the current nominations for vacancies on boards be accommodated. This is subject to the need for of statutory agencies under the remit of his proper consideration of matters such as adequate Department. [15843/05] wastewater disposal and road safety. The guide- lines state that the housing needs of emigrants Minister for the Environment, Heritage and who now wish to return to their home places on Local Government (Mr. Roche): There are two retirement or for other reasons should be facili- vacancies on the boards of statutory agencies tated. There is also a provision which indicates under the remit of my Department, one each in that planning authorities should grant permission both the Heritage Council and the Rent Tribunal. in cases where exceptional health circumstances, I will consider the position regarding the filling of as certified by a doctor and the relevant disability these vacancies in the coming months.