Interview: Eugène Ionesco Author(S): Emmanuel Jacquart and Eugène Ionesco Source: Diacritics, Vol
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Interview: Eugène Ionesco Author(s): Emmanuel Jacquart and Eugène Ionesco Source: Diacritics, Vol. 3, No. 2 (Summer, 1973), pp. 45-48 Published by: The Johns Hopkins University Press Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/464536 Accessed: 08-05-2017 05:02 UTC JSTOR is a not-for-profit service that helps scholars, researchers, and students discover, use, and build upon a wide range of content in a trusted digital archive. We use information technology and tools to increase productivity and facilitate new forms of scholarship. For more information about JSTOR, please contact [email protected]. Your use of the JSTOR archive indicates your acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Use, available at http://about.jstor.org/terms The Johns Hopkins University Press is collaborating with JSTOR to digitize, preserve and extend access to Diacritics This content downloaded from 128.239.195.115 on Mon, 08 May 2017 05:02:54 UTC All use subject to http://about.jstor.org/terms ooLl5 OKOW INTRODUCTION/ I first met lonesco in 1965. He was Emmanuel Jacquart: If you have no objection, I supposed to give a public lecture in an art cinema in would like to start with the fifties and your early Bordeaux. He began by asking his audience whether days in the theatre. How do you explain that authors he should start by reading one or two of his short as different as Beckett, Adamov and yourself, al- stories which Gallimard had just published. Opinion though influenced by different writers, and having was of course divided, but lonesco opened his book different backgrounds, nevertheless rejected the same and began with Oriflamme. An hour or so later the things: "Aristotelian" psychology, engagement, real- audience showed signs of impatience. Indeed, lo- ism, and the Boulevard play. nesco's reading was by no means artistic. As he pro- Eugene lonesco: I believe that this was due to an ceeded with his reading some students stamped their objective necessity, the necessity of opposition. When- feet and told him to stop. For a brief moment he ever there is novelty, there is opposition. For ex- tried to go on. Then, he gave up and shouted: ample, Romanticism opposed Classicism. After Ro- "Rhinoceroses! You are a bunch of rhinoceroses!" manticism, there was the Parnassian school which, Whereupon he haughtily walked off the stage. in some respects, was a return to Classicism-with I wondered if he ever had any intention of giv- some new elements of course-but also an opposi- ing a lecture. I noticed he had no notes at all. Did tion to Romanticism. Then came Symbolism which he-like the Dadaists and the Surrealists-plan a was a sort of return to Romanticism; then Natural- "spectacle-provocation"? This hypothesis was sup- ism which was a return to Realism, and so on. But ported by another fact. Before his performance, there may be reasons I am not aware of. You think Ionesco, who was sitting a few seats away from me, that writers are objectively determined. This is pos- was drinking a rather large glass of whiskey, perhaps sible. But again, in my own case, I don't clearly see trying to muster up enough courage to provoke the what the determining factors were. It is up to the public. critic to discover them. Anyhow, when I met Ionesco for the interview E.J.: In your own case, what were the reasons for printed below, I was astounded to see how nervous all these rejections? he was. His voice was shaking and when I asked E.I.: As far as I am concerned-and it's in this re- whether I could start the recording, he answered: spect that I come closest to Beckett-the existential "Not yet. In a little while." After chatting with me condition is unbearable. for ten minutes, he finally gave me the signal. E.J.: Could you develop this idea? Throughout the interview I noticed how uncomfort- E.I.: Well, you see what is going on around you. able the tape recorder seemed to make him feel. What I am going to say is trite. We come into Both this shyness and the kind of bravado the world crying, we end up loving the world and noted above seem to be inherent in lonesco's per- then we no longer want to leave it. We are trapped. sonality. As a matter of fact, they can also be found It is this mortal condition which is unsatisfying. Also, in several of his plays. In The Lesson, the Professor we would like to be ubiquitous. It is having limita- who is at first shy with his student ends up by raping tions that distresses me. and killing her; in Victims of Duty the Policeman is E.J.: From the start, your plays were unquestionably first described as "excessively timid," then "[he] original and yet, it seems to me, they exhibited some bangs his fist on the table," and gives repeated orders similarities with Beckett's and even Adamov's. to Choubert, ranging from "I'll teach you to be obe- E.I.: Quite so; I think The Chairs and Waiting for dient" to "Swallow! Chew! Swallow! Chew!" etc. Godot on the one hand, and Exit the King and Also in Rhinoceros, Berenger, who is a rather un- Endgame on the other, have common themes. Again, obtrusive character at the beginning of the play thisfi- means that we are historically determined. New nally exclaims: "Against everybody, I'll protect my- assertions, oppositions, counteroppositions, and so self! I am the last man, I will remain so right up forth, obey an historical determinism. until the end! I won't give in!" E.J.: When you first began writing plays, did you diacriticS /Summer 1973 This content downloaded from 128.239.195.115 on Mon, 08 May 2017 05:02:54 UTC All use subject to http://about.jstor.org/terms 46 choose a situation or a character as the starting also many valid ones. For example, The Bald So- point, or did you let yourself be carried along by prano can be interpreted as a tragedy of language, a language? parody of theater, or a criticism of stereotyped be- E.I.: I let myself be carried along by language. I had havior. Besides, I had more personal reasons in writ- a very vague idea of what was to follow. Thus, for ing this play. I wanted to express the feeling I ex- Amedde I wanted a corpse to grow continually in an perience when I see people living senselessly. My apartment. It was around this central image that I characters became extraordinary by their very ba- conceived the play, as it is around the central image nality. I sort of stood back and looked at them the of chairs arriving en masse that I constructed The way I am apt to look at the world, with amazement. Chairs. And when I wrote Exit the King, I put my- This is probably why it was called an absurdist play. self in the position of someone to whom one would But again, there are several levels, several interpreta- say: "You are going to die tonight." That was all. tions possible. It is a parody but also a criticism of The action was set in motion from this starting point. Boulevard theater. You can make the same kind of As Val6ry pointed out, writing is a search, an ex- generalization with regard to any work. You can ploration. One discovers the answer on the way. find a Marxist interpretation, a psychoanalytic one, E.J.: For your first two plays, The Bald Soprano and a humanistic one, etc. The Lesson did you proceed in the same manner? E.J.: It is then a matter of polysemy, or to use Um- E.I.: You know, it's been such a long time since I berto Eco's expression, of "open works." Robbe- wrote these plays. ... For The Lesson I would Grillet, for example, sometimes writes novels with answer "yes." A professor kills his student in a com- several interpretations. Or else he uses a plot that ical way: that was the starting point. What I wanted leads the reader into a blind alley since there is no most of all was to write a play devoid of action. solution to the riddle posed. In this respect, Robbe- When it was performed for the first time, every- Grillet has somewhat modified the traditional detec- one, myself included, thought there was no action; tive story. but now we realize that there is action. I wanted it E.I.: Yes, The Erasers reads almost like a work by to follow a rising curve. A very simple structure, Simenon. As a matter of fact, I think Robbe-Grillet don't you think? does not hide his indebtedness to Simenon. E.J.: How would you characterize the structure of E.J.: Have you used similar techniques? your early plays? E.I.: To tell you the truth, I did not think of all this E.I.: I don't know. How would you? when I wrote my first play. I thought of it when I E.J.: First, there is a kind of circular structure, as in read the critics. Then I realized that it had to be The Bald Soprano. I wonder, however, whether this something other than what they were saying. What I was intentional. You had actually planned another think of my theatre contradicts what some critics ending: the actors would insult the spectators and said at the time when these plays were first per- pretend to shoot them.