F21 ArouR, 19-14.1 189

politician in the world, let alone in Auy- legislative EssenmblV. tralia, is afraid to come to this State. There ione man in this Chamber for whom 1 Tuesday. .2M~ A ugust. 1971. have the greatest respect-I refer to 'Me. 1folmies-lut I saw a letter from him that I WE ;ta. published in the Press in which lie su,- Que~tionn il trae lIg ...... 'so gested to the lpeople of Western Australiai Addrcs-in*Ilepy. dali,ii, m...... 'Si, that they iiiht foreet what Sir George Pearce, Bertie Johnston and others had done, and thereby vote for the Labour The SPEAKER took till Chair at 4.30 vote candidate; whereas he wanted them to j).IU. andi rea d 1,d yet's. anti-Labour. Hon. J1. J. Holmes: I never said that. Hon. K. C. VVILLIAMS: Yes, you did! QUESTION-BIRD TRAPPING. I would eerta i nv not ,nuscontrue what you Trafflc with, Eastern States. said. When Mr. H-olmes claimis that this Chamber is non-party, it is not so. If there r.(OVNERI 4 EY' asked the Premier: 1, is a Cha mher that is a better pa rtv House Is the Fisheries Department aware flint than this. I (In not k now. of it. In thec ranks Eastern States hird trappers are alleged to of the Labour Party, we arc pledg'ed to lie trapping, in the Kimberley district, and stick tmrether, unless we twist, in which using motor trucks to transport birds event we are en ti tled to do as wve like. I through the Northern Territoriy to the South could tick off those who have twisted on Australian market, to the detriment of Lab~our, hut [ do not want to make this a West Australian dealers? 2, Is it a fact that personal matter. They stick to their new pli-u 1,200 birds were shipped from tihe Zoolo- tical party, without which they wvould not be gical Gardens to a dealer named Tu rner, in members of this Chamber. Why be hypo- Sydney, this year? "'ill do trites? 'If the Labour Government The PREMI1ER replied: 1 and 2, No. what I want them to, they will suit me down to the ground. I want them to dis- sociate themselves from the Premiers' ADDRESS-IN -REPLY. Plan right away. If they do not do so, they will not lie returned at the next election. Eighth Day~. On motion by Hon. J. George, debate ad- Debate resumed from the 16th August. journed. MISS HOLMAN (Forrest) (4.3.3]: 1 w-as interested in reading in the Lieutenant- H-ouse adJourned at 8.53 p.m. Governor's Speech a very promising para- graph about the timber industry. It means a great dleal to the State for the timber industry to he in a pirospierous condition. and it is a fact that during the past 12 months or so many of the muills in this State have beens re-opened. Mfy owvn electorate, Forrest, has shared in the revival of the in- dlustry, and many of Mfillar's mills have now been re-opiened. There aire several that have iiot yet re-opened, Jarrahdale and Marrinup being tw-o of them. It means a great deal to the State to have the men employed in the timber industryv, and it is of great cre- dit to the Government that sustenance mid relief work have been reduced by so much, and that by their encouragement the timber industry hais come to life again, so to speak, and taken into employmvient so many of those men. I expect there are over 1,000 [ASSEMBLY.]

mt.' employed in the millIs at the present help the timber industry, since it is of such, time. The State Sawmills are working at a great benefit to tile State. One 1)art of full-nal, rate. They deserve great erediit the timber industry I should like to parti- for the work they did during the depressiu., cularise is that of the sleeper-cutters, of For they were the only1 mills that remained w-hoi, there are about 600. Thle sleeper- working at least part-tine during- the whIole cutters, ats members have been told before, of the lperioil. T notice iii the Speech at re- areC exploited to at great extent by.%contra"- ferencee to tile hl.g period of muontrolled tors and sub-contractors. Sonic contractors. exploitationl, wvhich hals created a. posi tioim own blocks, while others have no bush at that, according to the Speech, can only be all, but just put in a price onl spec, as it mnet byv reasonably restricting the output Were. Sleeper-cuitters are exploited, and from existing forests until the second crop) trea not covered by thle Industrial is flea ring, maturityv ]in times gone by there Ar bitration Act nor by the Masters was uncontrolled exploitation of forests, ajal Servants Act. 'his was not and many ~omipanies hlaid great tracts of dliscovered until 1931. Prior to that timlber. lanid, omit of which they took the pick time we always held the idea that sleeper- Of the timber, without replacing a single cutters were workers, just as other memibers bice. It 'was left to the Government to comec of' the industry. However in 1031 at sleeper- along and start reforestation. As I men- eutter named "Milentis sued a sub-contractor tioned just now, tile State Sawmiills, which named Tucak. but lost the ease and also the were not concerned in that period of un- vaes hie had earned by cutting sleepers. controlled exploitation, have worked for the Thie award certainly made proivision benefit of the State all through; they wore for at man using a broad axe or the only employers that kept their mills adze, aii,< it was thought that this covered g-oing throughout the terrible depression sleeper-cutters. However, that was not so. that was suffered by this State, in coaliton The Timbierwvorkers' Union applied to the with other countries. The Government have court for anl addition to that clause, spedi- reduced some of the freight onl timber. fIn Lying what it meant. This was the pddition 1.13 they introduced at reduced scale of they asked foi- f,-eighit onl timber, and that has now been MoTans a. ,vorker using a broad-axe to adz.c extended till next year. The railway charges ill -olincetion wvith, the hewing of tilmber, and includes it sleeper-c utter or heann-ettter. for export overseas; have bmeen rebated l012 per- cent., and on timber for the Eastern But the Industrial Arbitration Court found' States 12%/ per cent. There is no reduction that this was outside its jusisdiction. and for the traffic within the State itself, and so the application was refused. The sleeper- pos~sibl v it would be a good thing for the cutters have been suffering a very leanl time Government to take into consideration that during the depression, and indeed tile rate the carriage of timber over the railway sys- the ordinary sleeper-cutter gets is flow only temn returns are second largest amount of £:2 lpel load. The injustice of this will be all the pay'ing traffic in the State. Thus, seen wvhen I quote the .1917 rates, whbich in 1932-33 no less than 175,026 tons of local wvere £l16s. and 1 14s., with an allowance timber wvas carried over the State lines, anid for tools. There is now no allowance for in 19.33-34 the quantity carried was 265,863 tools. In 1919 those rates had to be cal- tonis. Those two tonnages mea nt that, inl culated on 13s. a dlay, day wages, and the 1932-33, £145,000 was paid in freight to the prices for loads of sleepers were 4 8s. 9d. railways, and in 1033-34 the amount rose to told 46s. To-day the price is £2 per loadl, £207,400. During the last financial year andI unscru pulous contractors or sub-con- thle money received by the State railway tractors still persuade thle men to sign system from the carriage of timber amount- agreements, in order to avoid having to pay ed to 10.07 per- cent, of the total receipts insurance. One case recently came to my of the railways. Then firewood was re- niotice in which a malat £2 4s. for cutting sponsible for .95 per cent, of the receipts wvandoo sleepers, and there was no insur- of the system. There was only one other ance. The mn have to pay their own in- freight which paid more to the railways, surance, or else not be insured, and natur- and that amount was received for the car- i:ly they were not insured, because they riage of wheat. So T feel that the Govern- <-o'iid not live onl the amount earned, On mrent could afford to do a great deal to that particular job the men averaged over [21 AUCT.ST, 19:34.] 191 u oiven time Ss. wages per day. We must onily for their food. They- get their stores realise that wandoo is heavier to cut than] fromt the storekeeper, and see p~ractic-ally no i, jarrabl and the price is very low. mioney. Whether thle bush is goad or bail,. Thle royalty is a very heavy charge Onl it is all[ the samne for the sleeper cutter-s. The timnber. There has been a rebate in the citractors pa'y by the load, and what the fore~try royalty, a 20 per cent. rebate, sleeper cutter earnis is no0 business Of the s-inee kApril, 1931. From the 1st Julyv contractors.. The nature of the bush where last a 5s. rebate per load was gve the sleepers are being cut in tile South-West onl sawn timber exported beyond Australia. precludes thle liewers iroin earniag an adle- Then there are rebates of 25 per cent, onl qtuate wage. Many are unable to e2nr.1 the inispectioni fees onl tiber from Crown lands, basic "'age although theY work for long and -50 per cent, onl hewn sleepers for ex- hours arduously, tinder tdangerouls conditions:. port T~om private property. But the in- liut with great ,kill. The sleeper etlters4 szpeetion is still about Is. 7d. per loafl. A work from daylighlt to dark in order to earn comnparison between the royalties paid by a what the; recive. The Government charges. hewer and liv ai sawmiller Owner shows that the royalty, freight, inspection fees, etc., the owner pays a little inuore in royalty; hut absorb fully 40 per cent. of the fLo.b cost of natural lie gets better timber, and the the sleepers. A statement was made recentli- sleeper-cutter is put to work in inferior with regard to the, earnings of sleeper (rut- bushi, or in hush that has been worked over tist Holyvoake. The average earnings per niziny times. The sleeper-cutting industry week were drawn out to show exactl y what is of great imp)ortanlce, anti I should like their position %%a-s. Sonic Of thle averages le refer to a paragraph in a newspaper the were £2 8s. Id. per week, £3 1s. Id., £3 Os;. o-ther day in which the 'Minister for Coin- 8d., £:3 11s. 6d., £3 14s. 4d., £2 14;;. 9d., £4 inerce, -Mr. Stewxart, ii, reported to have 9s. 2d., and £3 10s. 3d., working out at a gn siaid- eral average of £8 9s. 94. The sleeper cut- Prom Jamnuary I to SIuite 301, 0934, 400,3fl; ters were pain 3s. a week for travel- railway sleepers valued ait £110,082, were ex- ling( to work, and their tools cost themn ported from Australia, as coampared withi 9s G;d. a week. TPhis is evidence signed by 2-52,714 sleepers with a value of £22,57 for the corresponding period last year. Western the accountant. No one will deny' that Australia was the principal exp)orter with the sleeper cutter's work is skilled, and is 29.560S sleepers, followed by- *-New Sontli very airduous. It is at scandal and a cryingr %%ra.leS with 109,217 and Vlietoria with 1,501. shamne that this particular group of ncmi So it will bie realised that the sleeper- were only able to earn £3 9s. 9d. onl the av-er-- cuLtting" industry in Western Australia age. It is hoped that it will be possible is a very big part of the timber this session to have the sleeper cutters pro- iidustry. Sleeper-cutters are practically vided for. About two years ago I brought tile only workers not protected by awards. down a Bill to extend the operations of the These men are unquestionably workers. They Masters and Servants Act and the Industrial neither own the land nor conduct the busi- Arbitration Act, to embrace persons engaged in mianual work under ness. They accept work at piecework rates, contract in the tim1- ber industry. The Bill was passed by thisz aind Are entitled to a minimnuni wage, just Hiouse, but not b,y another p~lace. The as other workers are. They must be exact, sleeper cutters aire and cut to specification. If the labour is not not covered by in- -up)to specification, all the loan's work is lost. dustrial awards. I hope the Govern- The royalty has to be paid just the same, mneat will symipathetically treat the industry, and the carting anti inspection fees have to including the sleeper cutters and other be paid. He is at a loss, not only for his workers engaged in it, so that the eniployees labour but also for what lie pays for royalty, may 110 longer be comtpelled to work at these carting- and inspection on condened~ low rates. With reasonable. consideration . sleepers. ]Under present conditions, men the industry can emiploy mnany nmore hlund- are dumped onl to blocks in groups, reds of mien, and can be of more substanitial whether they are Government blocks or benefit in improving the position of the uni- privately ovtied, and all further responsibi- employed, as it has done in the last six lity inl them is disclaimed. I have already mionths. All we ask is that the sleeper cut- piroduced evidence to the House showing th at ters be placed on the same footing- as other in some instances the sleeper cutters, work workers, and protected from exploitation. 192 [ASSEMBL31Y.]

The object of the Bill was to remove the from Dwellingup) to Nanga Brook. The9e anomialy in the Industrial Arbitration Act, are about the worst roads in the timbow whereby hewers are excluded. In 1923 an area. amendment to the Wokes Compensation 3Mr. Hawke: In the world! Act embraced sleeper cutters, but it was not Miss HOLMAN: The road from Nang~a then imagined that they would not come Brook to Dwellingup, leading to tile hospi- under the Industrial Arbitration Act. It is tal, is the wvorst within my knowledge. impossible for hundreds of men engaged in Mr. Ferguson: You need a hospital at the the industry to make a living because of end of it. their low earnings, and because of the Miss HOLMNAN: People would scarcely charges made by the Government and other live long enough to reach the hospital. people. They cannot earn a decent wage Mr. Latham: I got through there very in the production of sleepers. The Govern- well some time ago. ment spend hundreds of thousands of The Premier: W\hen wvas that? pounds annually onl relief wvork, which may Miss HOLMAN: I took the Premier over or may not be reproductive. This all Ins- is this road, and lie scarcely survived the ex- poitant primary export industry, and it is perience, but we did not get any money for absolutely necessary that some consideration it. The road from Waroona to Nanga should be given to it. Thle Timber Industry Brook, 14 miles, has had some money spent Reglahtion Act was passed some years algo, upon it. For a distance of a mile and a but owing to the depression thle number of half out from Waroona, a sumn of about inspectors appointed under it was reduced. C1l000 "'as spent some years ago, and a few Now that the industry is r6iving and emi- more p~ounids have been spent in another ployinug so many more hundreds of men, portion. I believe there is a possibility of inspectors should he appointed. One Gov- a further grant being made for this road, errnment 1,1 inspector is working the indus- but for thle road between Nanga Brook and try, butl the Act also provides for the ap- Dsvellingupl nothing has beens done within poiiitnient of two workmen's inspectors. my knowledge except by the local people. It These men found their offices dispensed with, is a very bad road. A mail drove to see his amid have not since been reinstated. It is hoped wife a~t the Dwellingup Hospital by motor the Government will make these appoint- car, but knocked the sumip out before hie got ments in the near future. I am sin- there, and had to walk back to Nanga Brook. cerely grateful to those who haove done These people deserve better treatment than so much work for the industry, and they have received. Unless they are given helped to put it back into prosperity. roads, they are practically isolated in this I trust the industry will become even locality. Nanga Brook, onl account of more prosperous as time goes on. The the had roads onl the other side, is timber workers suffer greatly because of particularly badly off in cases of sickness. thie condition of the roads in their centres. Recently at grant of about four acres of -Mr. Hawke: Hear, hear! land was made to the Holyonke school. We Miss HOLMIAN: The lion, member has arc hoping, to get assistance to have the land had experience of them. Mtembers of the cleared, as it is onl the side of a hill and re- Government also have driven over thenm. qjuires to be cleared so that it may be used We have not had much assistance in that as a p~laygroufld. Our schools generally are direction yet. The roads around the mills in a fairly good way. At Brunswvick there c re, g eneiraly speaking, remains of oldl is a shortage of accommodation. During whimi tracks or old railway formations. Uin- tile winter the children have had to walk a fortunately the Forrest electorate has no mile extra over the railway crossing to the road board headquarters in the mill centres, church hall because there is insufficient the only one being at Donnybrook. ,accommodation at the school. Further ac- Motorists paV their rates, and other commodation has been promised, and I hope people pay theirs, to outside road boards. it wvill soon be given. The irrigation scheme We are very badly treated with regard to around Brunswick has been completed, and our roads, particularly the road from should be of great benefit to the comimun- Iag Brook to Waroona and from Nana ity. I notice from the Speech that the dairy- Brook to flwellingup). It is about 14 miles ing and fruit industries have a brighter out- from Waroona to 'Nauga Brook, and nine look. Unfortunately the people concerned [21 ALuL'sT, 1034.]19 193

aire having a had time. I thank the Minister the number in the grade B schools is 15. for Child Welfare for the improv'ement- hie Grade A schools are establkh?d for the pur- has effected in that particular dep~artmnt. pose of helping children wholiare backward A woman probation officer has now been from any cause-lack of opportunity, poor appointed, the first of her kind for many hcalth, ~Icfectivc hearing or- vision, and to a years. The women of the State have been, smiall extent feeble-mindedness. One can- .sking for this for a dozen years. We feel not but feel, that these opportunity schools it will be a great advalntage to the depart. are doing a great work for mentally defi- went to have this officer, The Mm1i- cient children. They teach such children idecr has also placed women attendants in how to play games and how to do useful the department, and has effected sev'eral work. Exhibitions are held showing the other important implrovements. I was -sorry work that is done by the children in those to hear the Premier~s rely to the question schools. The very nanc ''opportunity lire "'as asked the other day about the p~sycho- schools'' tells us what kind of schools they logical c'liniic. It is a matter of expense, but are and] how useful they must be. A home the east of' a State ps ' cholog-ical clinic iii for mentally deficient girls has been talked 1930 was only £1,208, whereas the cost of of, anid indeed promised, in Western Aus- admninistering the Lunacy Department in the tralia for many years; and I would like to baline y'ear "'as £112,000, and for the follow- see the Government re-establish the psy- inrg year £191,000, exclusive of buildings and chological clinic and let that work go upkeep of buildiugs. It is very important further. It must be a severe drawback to have a psyChio log-ical clinic. The work in the work of the Children's Court that' of' the Government 1Psychologist in the East- there is no State psychologist. The State ern states Is giving incalculable results, psychologist, when we had one, did a great and is havingw a great effect upon educa- deal of work in many directions; and West- tion arid welfare work generally. It is a ern Australia is lagging behind in not hav- wrong thing to hofuse mental deficients with ing such an officer to do the necessary those who are entirely insane, as is being work. Another matter I wish to mention done at Claremont. It is very costly to is of great importance from the point of keep themi at Claremont, namely, about view of the general public of Western Auis- £80 per head, arid it harmis th e detec- tralia. We have in this State a great numn- tives to put thiem wvith the insane. her of swimmers, hut notwithstanding that Detectives should he properly housed and fact there is no swrimmning pool in our properly trained. The Government should capital city. In fact, Perth is the only establish a psychological department to capital city in Australia that has not an deal with these people. The -Minister indoor swimmingF pool1 for the use of the for Health when previously in office estab- Public. Swimiming is a great sport, and lished such a department and I wvas sorry it has been recognised all over the world to see it abolished. It is to be regretted as being a most healthy sport, excellent for that it has riot yet been re-established. In the building up of the physique of those Queensland the Government go further, who engage in it and for keeping them Alt They have what are called "opportunity and well. Unfortunately, we have not given schools,", rind these schools arc for mental sufficient encouragement to swimmers in delicients. The teachers in our own schools this State. True, we have a fine river and have neither opportunity nor timne to teach beautiful beaches; but it is not always op- achild that is below the average stand- portune to visit those beaches and that ard mentally. Such children are just left river. aside. The teachers have large classes, The 'Minister for Lands: What about the and if a child cannot keep up with the class unfortunate people of the Murchison and it just wastes its time and nothing can the hack country generally, who never see he done for it. I would like to see the a swimming pool? Queenslan d system established in Western 'Miss HOLMIAN: The Queensland Australia. In the Queensland opportunity schools, in the country as well as in the schools defective children are eared for towns, have swimming pools. If the Gov- tlioroughbly, The report for 1932 notes ernment or any other authority would niake that in seven grade A schools 335 a start in the matter, it would be a help. pupils receive special instruction, and] that I do not consider that sufficient publicity 194 [ASSEM2%BLY.]

has been given here to the sport of swim- have a letter from Mr. iDunninghain, Minis- ming. There are 22 swimming clubs, with ter for Labour and Industry in New South a total of over 1,000 members; and more Wales. froma which 1 quote the following- than five competitive clubs use the Swan During the past 12 mionths the Cnumpicy- River as their headquarters. It is com- nient Relief Conctil has madtite mtoney avail- pulsory, .[ may say, for A~ester,, Australians able matinly with the objcct of treating cam- to taie Part p)laYillet ill the blding trade, but from lily .'ina Interstate comnpeti tions., own personal viewpoint thle facilities lpro- Every foot years what are called the Aus- vided by afford inmg adequa tc ba ti ng at-inn' - tral ian flnines are hield. 'fhese gaies have niodaition have at more far-reaching and more never been held in Western Australia, beneficial effect onl the community as a whole. Yeanr assovi ati on withI swimming willI possily simply because of the lack of adequate give you the same v iewvpoin t as . Ihav imself swinuimlng facilities. It will readi lY be expressed. I personally think that money es- understood that it would be anl excellent itended in plrovitding recreation facilities for advertisement for the State to hlave swimi- tile comainainity, young and old, has ati effect mnters going, away from here, and swimmers onl the people that can not be icasitred iii termis of f. s. dI. The alon1v ' is miade ax-ailableI coming here to compete. The money spent by way of loan ini each imista ie to the voumi- in such a visit to Western Australia would ,ils, rejwmy;Lidl over a long period at at rate be of great advantage all roun d, but we o F three pecr cent. per an num). to practically cannot invite swimmners to this State, be- ev~ery inistanrce a ttendanes at the ha tlis 11:1y, been g-reatly ini excess of the estimiates. cause, as TI have said, we have not the necessary sinnng facilities. Anyone Mr. Dunninghiam makes mention of numer- .who knows any'thing about swimmiing will OUuScounocils to which advances have been, realise the disadvantage arising from the made for the construction of baths. The wind and the tides in our river. We cannot Broken Hill MT~unicipality has had an ad- put iup the same times here as are putt upl in vance otf £7,250. Other shires and muni- the East, because our waters are disturbed cipalities to which loans have been granted by wvintd, floods, mud, algae, and everYthing are Clyde, Grenfell, Walgett, Goulburn, else that comes down the river. In fact, MacLean, Young, Enfield, and so forth. some p)arenlts will not allow their children Mr. Raphael: Are there any algae in to bathe in the river, because, it is said, the rivers there? they get sore throlats from such hathinir. AM Miss HOILMAN: I do not knowy. How- ev er, is regards a swimming pool in Perth, I would I dto know that this a crying neces- sity for the City- of Perth. In Newv South like to see the Government or the Perth WVales the question has even been studied City Council or the State Gardens Board, by the Education Department. The investi- or some other authority, build .a proper gationi was made br a committee organised pool. Such a pool is, a necessary public by the Education Department and including utility. representatives of the Department of Pub- Mtr. La tham': The Government willI do it. lic Health, tile Government Architects' De- iMiss HOLMAN: I do not know that the pmrtinent, the Loal Government Depart- Gov-ernment will do0 it. We must ask for inent, thle Royal Life Savinlg Society, and this to be done, and possibly we shall get the New South Wvales Amateur Swimming it from some authorit v or other. If the Association. A pamnphlet has been, issued Governincnt dto not build a pool, they will which is designated "Bulletin No. 2. Fresh nevertheless, I feel sure, give every, possible Water Sivinaning B-a ths." Tliis dleas with assistance in getting somte other authority .swinunt ig activities anti wi th the construc- to do it. In 1936 the National Australian tion of baths and thle pulrificationl of Swimming Championships are to be held the water in tile baths. I mention these here, and I would like to see proper facili- thlings to bring to the notice of the public ties created for that occasion. Jn that same that we are far behind other Australian year the Australian Gamnes will be held, States in affording swimiling facilities to and all of them may not take place in the public. I think it will readily be ad- Adelaide. if Ave have proper indoor swimi- mnitted that a delegation of swinimers going ming facilities- in Perth, there is the pos- trmn this State wvill probably give it a imuchT sibiflity' of some of the gaines being held more useful advertisement than would a. here. That I am not asking for anythiftg, delegation of memnbers of Parliament. I unreasonable is proved by what the' New~ know tllat whlen time Western Australian South Wales Government have done. I sliinners reached Queensland recently, [21 ArC(US;T, 19:14.]15 195

there was not much talk of this State in ister to look after the biggest responsibility the Queensland newspap~ers until 31r, anl'y 0overnmnent have to face-that of un- Shetdyv began to speak of what the West- emlploymlent. W'e can be assured from em'l _Australian swimmers were goilig to do tile availmlle statistics that the M1inister -nd. I a 'y add, what eventually they for Einiloymnent has imade at definite dic, However, T wish to bring uinder thle step forward in the absorption of men in in- notice of hon. riietnbern that Western Aus- dustry. I gnerally do not agree wholly with tralia is sadly lacking in regard to swimt- anyone, and I (10 not altogether agree With inur facilities. Other countries have shown the mannier iii which thle Government have much activity in this direction. In connIec- keplt certain works goinig for certain men. I tion With every swimmuing carnuival and thle think mnany thiouisand,; of pounds have beent Olympic Gines we read of strong tenis o1f wasted in confilmninig work in the Murrayv- Ja1 )anese, for instance, competing. I feel Wellington electorate, for I believe the that the Government wxili confer a great mnoney could have been better spent else- benlefit onl tile coninun~lit ' if titey assist in where. the establishmaent of Iidoor swimmiing Mr. Thorn : You might mention the biaths. 1, wish to conc-lude by congr-atulating Causeway. thle Governmnent on the Work done towards Mr. RAPHAEL: I will deal with that reduction of unemployment during their later onl. Mly objection is not to the provi- term of' office. Onl this subject I canl speak ,ioit a4 employment for the mien, but I cont- train my heart, because at the time of the sider that the work carried out in the MNur- last g-eneral. election there were hundreds rar-Wellington electorate xwas altogether -of sustenance workers in the Forrest elec.- wrong. I do not blame the Minister for it torate, ankd now there are comparatively hut rather the eng-ineers who approved of few. Almost all of the mnills are working- the wvork. 1l nians- instances thle water .again, aiid the sleeper cutters also are at merel 'y washed ini the soil that had been ex- Work. This nieans that thle Government are cavated and meca Were occupied in remov- receiving- considerable revenue from royalty, ing the clay that had been washed back lease rents, and railway and Wharfage again. That had to go onl continually. TheC Chit I'les. iDemands fur our timber are ilis- claY wvas washed in as quicklY as tile mnn tinctly more active. I again congratulate thle were able to remove it. I hope the Govern- Government onl their good work, and I trust iemit xsil give consideraitiomn to that Inatter as: thiat that work will continue to go forward. sOoIN a osbe I hope, too, that they %%ill give prompt attention to in- MR. RAPHAEL (Victoria Park) [5.141: creaising the allowances to iien in reeipt 1 join thle previou:; slpeaker in congratulat- of the lower rates of! pay. Whent the pre- 'ingt the Government, if not unreservedly oit vions Government were in olice, as manl'y wt-lit has been done hr themn for the uneni- as 800 muen were to he seeni drawing susten- j)Ioy erl, yet onl their efforts to assist unemn- ancee at one bureau. "Nowadays not nmore plo ' ed workers back into private industry. than 150 itien canl lie seenl enigaged inl that Thle Premier in the coursie ot his -speech operation. A smnall measure of praise is -said that over 3,000 men had gone back into d]ime to the Government for having- altered private industry mainly through the efforts thle position to suceh anl extent and given to -of thle Government..As our unsophisti- the menm concerned aim oplportunity to ill tated friend front Toodyny Would suggest- hack their manhood, anl nDportinitys tha t !Mr. Thorn: "Iwas just going to ask -which was denied themm by the previous Govern- ,Government you were talking- about. nment. M1r. RA PHAEL: When the previous Gov- M1r. Latharm: And vou wvere omne of thos;e ernment were in powver, the matter that who tried to prevent those men front goinlz should be paramount with any 0overnment, out and canting their livelihood. namely unemiploytment, wvas treated as a side Mr. RAPHAEL: That is not no. At anyv line in conjunction with many other side rate, I could not stop you front earning linesz. Thme Minister in charge or unentl- 'your living, bemause von could not d o sqi. ployntent also admnislterel poiee, forests Mr. Lathmanm : What about whenl v.on xvent and1 oilher departmetst. The Labour Party, North ? aFl promised during the general election Mr. RAPHAEL: Amid what about when r-nuipaign, hatve appointed a full-time Mmi- Y-o- 1fl6 [ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. SPEAKER : Order! The lion. mom- previous Government to collect the money her must address the Chair. after so muuclh work had been done, nor yet M r. RAPHAEL: [ suggest to tile Leader during tile stalnding-down period. It would of the Opposition that lie leave the North have been, better for that lion. member had ,alone becrause I can give i nnioethinJg hie been a member of Parliament when the about that, too. p~revious Government took certain action, Mr. Lathan: T will give you ill yon b~ecause he could have joined wvith nmemubers want. of the then Opposition in howling down Mr. RAPHAEL: I amn not afraid of ,in-- the suggestion that the workers should be thing the lion, member may 5:13. The Mliii- denied the right to tile money they had ister for WVorks is to be eonrra tulated for earned. Immediately the Labour Govern- putting in hand once more the reclamation ment assumed office, that "kitty"~ was wiped of the river forcqaore. When the previons out and men were able to draw their pay as Adniin;stration took office, their first step sooin as they earned it. was to stojp th'e work that hadi been under- Mr. Latham,: Some of the workers now taken there. Despite the fact that tile City get 2d. after working for a fortnight. Council hadl subsidised the work to the ex- Mr. RAPHAEL: if you got 2d. for a tent of £0,000 a year, the Gocvernment could fortnight's work, it would be more than you not find a mneasly £12,000 a year to carry would he worth. on that -,reat work. Althoughi what had Mr. SPEAKER: Order! These person- been accomlplished at the end of a little alities must cease. more than a vear- no doubt led those who The 'Minister for Employment: The state- did not helieve in the work to think that a iment of the Leader of the Opposition is mistake w~as being imade, T hope the work not correct. w-ill be continued, and that (lhe swamlps that MNr. Lathian: No! 1 will show you. have been such an ey'esore, wvill soon he made The Minister for Employment: You know things of the past. T hope fihe Minister for it is not correct. Railways is listening because T wvant to Mr. RAPHAEL: The Leader of the Op- fer. to the overlapping of the peany section, position is no more right this tinie than in Victoria Park. Previously the reqidenth lie generally is, for lie is always wrong. desired the extension of the tramnway sei The Minister for Employment is to be con- vice and agitated for it for aL number of ratua Med upon0I the untiring efforts he has vear's. W"hen the extension was obtained put forth to promote the purchase of local then, apparently, sonic of tile residents products. The 'Minister has travelled many found that they did not really' want it. The miles to attend shows aid other gatherings, trouble now is that the old age and invalid and it has been rather astounding to find p~ensioners who have to travel by train to at manyv of those functionis members of the the Victoria Park post office to collect their Chamber of Commerce congratulating a pensions, have to pay 2d. instead of one Labour Mlinister upon his work and upon penn 'y as formerly. That neicas that each what he has been doing for the State. On time they go to collect their pensions theyv no one occasion while the previous Govern- have to pay 4Id. That matter shouldl receive nient were in office-I do not know whether .attention, and I hope the Minister will at it was due to lack of foresight-did they least arrange that the pensioners are al- make any attempt to absorb the unein- lowed to travel at the old rate seeing that Jplayed b 'y that means. I next desire to they- cannot possibly waolk to and fromn the refer to matters affecting the Electoral De- post office. partment, which represents a burning ques- Mr. Latham : Do you mean that the Goy- tion at the monient. I wish to make this ermnent increased the fares out there? statement advisedly and as the result of my Mr. RAPHAEL: T hope the 'Minister will personal experience. When the latest Legis- give attention to that matter pronipti. lative Council elec-tions were held, I was When the member for Sussex (Mr. Brock- one of the organisers-not that we were muan) delivered his eloqu~ent arldres, Successful. a few dlays ago, he referred to the "kitty," Mr. Sampson: Cause and effect. as he so aptly termed it, or fund built up) Mr. RAPHAEL: At 9.45 p.m., after the by the unemploy'ed workers who, although vote; had been counted at the Victoria Park they had earned it, were not allowed by the booth, I went to the South Perth polling [21 AEOUtST, 303497 197

booth, where I found, much as I hate hav- Mr. Thorn : YOU are quoting thle wrong ing to say it, 80 per cent. of the men doing figtmrs-, altogether. I quoted the figures for thu Job there, including the returning last year. officer, were, if not drunk, strongly under Mr. RAPHAEL: It is a pity thle lion.. the influence of liquor. I had to point out member did not look up other years. to themi that a ballot paper was ly'ing Mr. Thorn: I qluoted time returns for onl the floor, They were so strong in drink 1.93'2-33. that tile)' could not even see it. That L Mr'. RAPHAEL: 'Nonsense! I ani afraid a Pharge that I hope will never be lodged we would have to go back 100 ye-arsi to get against the officers at Victoria Park. The figures anyting like thle lioii. lmemer quoted. officials there conducted the count as it Mr. Thorn : Von are speaking- nonsens~e, should lie carried out. I do not think that hut 'I inuppose we lial better let you go on. such things as I have indicated should be Mr. RAPHAEL: It would he b)etter. allowed to take place. The returning officer There aie one or two other small mnatters of was drunk a.nd hie should have been put out local interest that I wish to deal with. There of the place is that stupid regulation that pi'ohibit Mr', Thorn: That is a pretty serious bicycle:, being ridden within 2 feet of the chiarge. kerb. I hope the Governmient will recon- Mr. RAPHAEL: I have made it. The s'ider' that regulatioii. for it is a burning member for Toodyny (Mr. Thorn) reminds matter iii Victoria Park, which is SO per me about a quotation hie made the other cent. an industrial suburb. The people there night regarding the wool situation. 'He are uip in arms ag-ainst it. They claim that said the wool clip returned to Australia if they suffer any daumage, the insurance iii the 1931-32 season anl amount of companies will be able to evade responsibility £20,000,000. whereas the return for the fol- by sugagesting they were riding outside the lowingf. year "'as £46,000,000, or anl increase prescribed distance. I trust the Govern- of £26,000,000 over the 12 months. It ment will withdraw that regulation. Aim- might be interesting to that hion. member other matter that mit lie considered by' to know that the wool clip throughout Aus- the Government is the imaiuem' in which time tralia, for thle past five years has averaged Wor'kers' Comnpensat ion Act is being- flouted a return of £45,683,000. b)-y certain employers. I refer' mainly to Mr. Ferguson: Y on are pulling the wool dag1o restaurant keepers of Peith. Five in- over his eyes now. Mtanes have heen brought under my' notice Mr. RAPHAEL: I am not trying to do 1w medical men during the last few mionths that, but. in view of the official figures, T of girls having been injured while working must take into consideration the fact that for Greek or' Italian restaurant keepers, and the member for Toodyay is ai potential in no instance was a girl Able to claim coni- MiniRter in a Government to come. pensation. The bosses told them that, if Mr'. Perguson: Coining events cast their any fctionia were taken, they would lose their shadows. jobsL. The Government should insist upon Mi'. SPEAKER: I do not think the muem- employers insuring their employees, as is hecr for Victoria Park should cast any re- provided by the Act. flection uponl anl hion. member! 'Mr. Thorn : That would not prevenit theum Mr,. RAPHAEL: I dlid not intend to from taking action if they had a clainm. do so, but as a young, nsFophisticated Mr. RAPHAEL: If the amount involved member of this Chamber, I thought that the were only £5. and there was a risk of the very seat that he occupies, shows that the girl losing, her job, no claim would be made. member for Toodyny is a potential Minlis- Protection should be afforded to those who ter. cannot protect themselves. I am gratified The 'Minister for Employment: Why look at thmesteps being taken by the iiurses to 30 years aheadV form a uinion. We say definitely that there The Minister for Works: It is too far is one place where industrial wron,&s should altogether. be righted, and that is the Industrial Arhi- 'Mr. RAPHAEL: There was nothing to tratima Court. The nurses have been foolish prevent the member for Toodyay, as a meni- inl not having gone to the court for the pro- her of the Countr' Party, giving the figures tection that they so sorely need. I do not correctly. wish to say that the Perth Hospital is a di~i- 198 [ASSEMBLY.] grace to the Minister, but the congestion b~oa rd will hie representative of tile pro- existing there should be relieved. It the ducers and conisumiers. I dto ilot want the Government can,,not see their waty to build mnufactu"rers ho enjoy thle privileges they a new hospital to replace the presenit itisfi- have had in the past of exploitinlg the dair'y tution, earnY consideration should be given farmers. I hope the Minister will be fully to tile question of conistructing another lios- alive to that aspect. Ani effort Ilas been pital. Ihope that the progress nuade by' mnade to persuade the Ministe- to p)revent the State under Labour- Administration dur- smnall producers fr-onm marketing their but- ing! the last 15 ioitths will conitiinute, and I ter-. It is said thait the farmer should lpay wish the Government all Possible succeess in to ali eqIualisationl fund 2d. per- 11b.on every their endeavou r to find enmlIoyiment for those p)ounid of butter marketed. That sugges- ike?? x-hliihae b een without work or- Vnv onl tioni w-ill niever be adopted wvithI my sulpport. part-timen work for so mianYye"ars. A schlene of orderly niarketing may be all right, but I dto not think it possible to bring MR. J. H. SMITH (Nelson) [5.32] :1 such] a scheme into operationl. The Mfinis- do not pr'opose to make a long speech, but tr shoul d be carefjul not to he hloodwinked. I wish to deal with a fewv points of inter- Tf at farmer were making 100 or 200 lbs. est to the country generally. I read with of butter per week, it would be all right, pleasure the references in thle Speech to hut iII the wheat belt the housewife often the dai rying, mining, timber, and fruit in- supplies a few p~ounds of batter to thle

dustries, and to the legislation intended to storekeeper-. - If all attempt is miade to be introduced thi.s session. It was pleasing leg-islate agapinst that heing done, I hope to h)ear- the speeeh of the Premnier a few- thlat reprlesenltatives of the whcatgrowe-s -eveninRgs ago. Every member enjoyed it. wvillIknow how to deal with it. Small pro- Tt was just what we expected of him-dip- ducers li ke that shioul d not be required to lomiatic from beg-inning to end. Everyone paY into all equia Iisatioll hind1(. Wye know is pleased that the mining industry is pro- lhowlthe a-recnmen t miade i-egardinig tile price glessi iig by leaps aid houinds. Thie price of butte- fat has been broken. We kniow of gOld has inerensed over 100 per cent., tha t produlcrs were to ,-eeeive Is. Pcr lb. qnd even if it does not go anl'y higher, we for their hotter fat, and 'ye know that trust it will maintain its present level, be- sitpplieis of baitter have actually been in- cause it is the one lbright spot amongst all ported. We nowv find that mierchlants hav-e our, lpfrnary industries. Some people say adopted thre-e grades foi- butter fat, but that the timber industry has experienced doe" any membi er know where three a revival, but that is hardly correct. The gi-ades of hotter are sold? The three industry is looking to the Government for grades of crecam go into the one vat, hilt eonsideration ill thle matter of reduced thet l*'rodueer is paid at tile lowest i-ate, royalties and railwa 'y freights. I wish to and of course the butter is retailed at one show how the G overnment could assist the pricer. I believe that the Minister, since industry, Of course the Minister will tell miy ofiversation with him, has a full] g rasp us. that the industry is being assisted by of tile situation. The memiber for Murray- the recent freight reduction of 16 per cent., Wellinlgton (MrIt. MeLarty) has suggested but that reduction has not brought thle rates .a restriction of the number of factories. If hack to the 1924 standard. Another 14 it were possible to control thle indutstry per cent, reduction would be necessary to from Manjimup to Margaret River, there revert to that standard. The Minister for might be something to be said in favour Agriculture is na -e that whalt we believed of the proposal, but that is impossible. At would occur in the dairying industry is present there are privately-owned factories, not occurring. The powers-that-be, in- proprietary factories, and the su1lposed co- Stead of palying the producers of butter operative 'factories. The chairman of dir- fat Is. per lb., have reduced the price. ectors of the South-West Co-operative Some people wvill arg~ue tllat the only way Factory- is reciving £750 a year and ex- to overcome the difficulty is to adopt 'a penses. All of that comnes out of the pocket- .scheme of orderly market ing and create a of' the farmers, amid it is such like people board. Tf the Minister seeks statutory wvho are Iryinlw to hoodwink Parliament into authority for the creation of a board, I passing legislation to restrict the proprie- hope that the members comprising- the tary factories, pilt thenm out of existence, [21 AUGUSC~T, 19:14.] 1901 and give control of thle whole industry to Mr. J. II. SMI1TH: floes not my friend the co-operative factories. When the know of the test made at Jarralidal, nmany question conies before the House for (us- yenrs ago, when logs were taken to the saw- eussion, I shall have more to say on it, but mill and when the sleeper hewers, with their 1 hope other members will be both fore- broad axes, got a mouch better p~ercenitage? warned and forearined to deal with those lie should remember that; he was Minister wvho, unrder the cloak of the dairying see- for- Works at the time. To-day, under the tion of the Primary Producers' Associa- existing system, the mills go there first and tion, are LlIdeavouriin.- to secturle control of the sleeper hewer follows. the industry. We should expose their I Ion. W. 1). J1oflrmson : As it should be. hvPoerisY, and -safeguard the individual Mr. J. H. SMITH: The hall. member who has outi-y one or two cows, and is selling does not know what hie is talking, about. onl1y fearr or live Ills. of butter a week. There are thousands of acres onl which the I it:stened wvith considerable interest to the satvlnils. ca~nnot operate to-day. At a later references bY the member for Forrest stage in thle present session it is my inten- (Miss Holmni) to the timber industry, and tion to submit an amendmnen t to the existing her pran osf the Go,vernment for what Act, and [ believe I will receive the sulpport they, hlad done for the industry. I know of the Government. in any case, I shall somiethin.- of the industry. Speaking of approach the Government before I sullit rhe timtber hewvers' section, the outlook is the amendmnent, the object of which will be mutci I righlter, hut legislation, which I pro- to license these men, who are masters4 of pose to introduce this session, is needed to their craft, in the hope of their being able aniend the Forests Act. It is a well.- to reap a benefit from some of the wealth known fact that numbers of orders have that is now lying dormant. I have been suc- been lost to Western Australia by a margin cessful inl getting areas thrown open. but of 26. or 3Ss. per load. We lost to New there are thousands of acres along our exist- -South Wales a New Zealand contract tot- ing railwvays that could be cut at the present 3(1,000 loads of sleepers by' a margin of time. But the Forests Department say that 2s. Gd. WhY? Because New South they will impose a royalty of 10s. per load lvales collected at ro alty of only 2s., onl any timiber that is cut. Then the areas whereas the royalty herec is 10.,. Nobody aire gazetted and advertised for sale and the is permlitted to hew sIlpers Oi Ctow; contractors sometimes pay 17s. or i8s. lands unless lie possessed a license or per- per~ load. That is at scandal and the alit previous to 1918. The men who bold Premier must know that someone is licenses all those years ago are going out going to suihtr it royalty has to bie of the industry, and we should now grant paid. 'rh Prem~ier must also know that licenses or permits to 'young men who are the induisti v is right dIown to its lowest capable of hewing sleepers. Orders are ehi. In years gone by it was possible to get ,available and they could he fulfilled if men even up to £11 a load; to-day, the price is were permitted to hew onl Crown lands. If down t0 £:4 or a little over. Thle de- we go to the Conservator of Forests with partnient should( not demlan1 at royal tv this request, he replies, ''We are running bit shbould( be content to have the to a certain lplan and a certain schedule." peop)le at work. 13y having to lpay I dto not know anything about that, but I 6s., 7s., or Ss. per load more thaii the value do know thast anl enormous quantity' of timu- of the timher, someone is I)oufld to suffer. her is g-oing to wvaste through over-maturing The critters are suffering to-day by not pay- Why not license young 'non who have been ing insuranee and by signing receipts for £2 in the industry since the wvar, and who a load when they are getting 36s. If the could prLoduce great wealth for the State? cutters can get £2 l)er load and insurance, The Minister for Railways interjoected. they will be quite satisfied. He is a poor Mr. J. [1. SMIITH: It is the policy to put nail ill tile buslh to-day that cannot cut two in spot miills, but surely the Minister knows loads in reasonable timber. that it is impossible to law timber at a price Mr. Lathia: What do they have to pay within 10 to 20 per cent, oV that for hewv- for insurance? in --. Mr. J. B. SMITH: Insurance to-day is Hon. WV.D. Johnson: How much would 5s. A manl has to work pretty hard to cut you destroy in the process?9 two loads a wveek. 200 [ASSEMBLY.]

Miss Hohman: Four pounds is not much lion acres in the South-West for land wages for a skilled sleeper cutter. settlement. We are now blocking alt land Air. J. H. SMITH: Some of the young settlement in every direction by our foolish chaps can cut three loads. forestry, policy. We are locking up thous- Mr. Sleeman: They would not get too ands upon thousands of acres of the finest much for their work. land in Western Australia. Mr. J1. H. SMITH: But they are satisfied The Premier: Where are the people that if they can get £2 a load, On account of wanut the land? thle high royalties, some are getting onliy 35s. MNr. J. Ii. SMNITH: Applications are a load. I told some of those who were cut- being made every day for land, and they tinlg that I h'ad no0 sympathy for them are being turned down by tile Forests De- and that they were scabbing. If we lPartmemit. That dlepa rtmeint seems to have could stick to the lprinciple .1 am ad- control over all Crown l1ands throughout the vocating, it would be all right, huat South-West, extending as far as Albany, it is being broken by the Forests lDepart- and the Lands Department does not seem ment in putting up these areas for sale. I;'h to have an'say at all. does not thle Conservator use a wise discre- lion. AV. D. Johnson: What does the tion? Why does hie not say to Smith or Forests Department want the land for? Jones, "There you have an area left; put MAr. J. H. SMITH: Certainly not for your eutters into it"? Instead of that, hie growing wheat. Tme land could he used bludgeons it throughi, and his action means for dairying or development in other direc- squeezing the lifeblood out of the peop~le. I tions. I admit, of course, that those wvho do not think the Premier k-nows what the are onl the land to-da3- have no outlook, position is to-day. An area is thrown open, butt we must bear the future illn mnd. and half a dozen are after it. Will that Mfiss Holmuan: Have you any outlook for kind of thing- do any good? Will it be the the timber industry? means of bringing in any revenue? The Mir. J. H-. SMITH: Yes, and perhaps real effect is that it is putting more revenue more thtan anyone else, biecause I realise into the Conservator's coffers, and lie is that the South-West depends almost en- squandering that money in what lie calls re- tirely onl its timiber industry. It was the forestation. 'Ihe form~er Minister for For- timlber indust ' that built it up. I renern- ests told uts at one time that lie had been her the present MKinister for Railways sonic to Kirup and had seen wonderful forest years ag~o boasting in this House that the growth and that in three years' time the mills timbier fidustry brought in by way of rail- wvould Ile operating, tliere on coppice growth. wvay freights £160,000 more than the whole The Premier: Who said that? of the wheat carried from every part of Mr. J. I-I. SMITH: Not the present Pre- the State. I realise what the industry needs trier, but his predecessor in the last Parlia- and that if we want to keep it goingI we ment. The Conservator to-day is doing must give our young men every chanice to things that no sensible person should ever work in it. The member for Forrest thinks allow to be done. He is planting pines that I would not build up thle South-West everywhere. My friend the member for Nor-- in the way I propose; but can she tell me tham recently went through the Pemberton how long it takes a jarrah sapling to grow area, and there saw a wondlerful pine to miaturity? Does she know that every lantation. The mnember for Sussex has also year this timnber is going to waste-to the been through that part of the country and extent of. thousands of pounds? Why not lie too saw a pine plantation. I guarantee turn it into good money'?v Why not cut all that tile pines pianted four years ago are the niature timber, and let time industry go now surrounded by scrub that is as high on? I know of my owrn knowledge where as the gallery in this Chamber. That is the there has been a growth of jarrali for 30 way money is being squandered. If the years, that it is quite impossible to get a Conrservator were doing sonic good or get- telephone pole from it. ting some return for his outlay, there might Miss Holman: Do you want the whole be justification for it. State to be like that? The Premier: You are romancing. Mr. J. H. SMITH: There are hundreds Mr. J. HI. SMITH: Not in the slightest. of thousands of acres in the South-West If 1 had my way I would dedicate a mil- that are only fit to grow jarrah, and no- [21 AuousT. 1934.120 201 thing else, -No one suggests for a moment to the Premier's speech onl thle Transport that that area Should be destroyed or in- Board. He used "co-ordination," "sitrangu- terfered w-itlh. What I ay is that we should lation,'" and every other word that could be have is classifleation of the whole of the in trod uced. I say our railways are here and country, and thle land fitted for agriculture have to stay here, for every other industry is or intense culure should be set aside for suppotedhrouh. our railways, but we must that purpose, while the forestry lands are have deent restrictions imposed. left there for all time. I am appealing to The Premier: In other words, co-ordina- the -Minlister to see if something cannot be tion. done in the way or reduction of royalty. Mr. J1. H. SMITTH: No, I am not going Instead of Setting uip a royalty of INs. to use "co-ordination," nor amn I going to per load for sleepers, we should be reducing agree to annihilation either. When we were it. It costs no more to produce a load of building roads alongside of existing rail- sleepers at Pemberton than it does to pro- Ways, I gave evidence before the committee duce a load at Wellington, yet look at the of inq~uiry, and contended that the policy difference in the freight!I Would it not be should be the building of feeder roads to our possible in the interests of tile country to rail ways. W hat has happened? We have introduce the zonie system, so as to bring built up a road transport system. I (10 not towerhevl th. 12;. 1wr load at Wellington and agnree With it. I attended two meetings in the 25s;. at Penmberton, would it not be my own electorate, and asked who Were the possible for thle Government ito introduce promoters. They said they were the busi- the zone systemn and equolise the whole ness people of various towns. I said I would thing at a flat rate of, say, 16s. per load? listen to them a-; business people, but not as That would be a fair proposition. The in- producers. Some contend that we should dustrv will suirvive, if only it gets syni- g-rant tomipensation to thle transport lpeople. patheptic legislation. The Minister for Rail- It may be that the Government should agree ways will say he has reduced the railway to somiething of the sort;, if after consulta- frei ght bhy 16 per cent. tion With the Transport Board it is found The Premlier: And thle royalty onl export that hardship has. been inflicted, possibly the timber also. Government should grant sonic compensa- Mr, J. H. SM11I: Not on hewn sleepers. tion. The Premier the other night said the Indeed there 'you have in(.reascd tle royalty. railwvays, if they c ould get a 134d. per ton Tn 1921, or was it 1924, the rate was largely mile freight, would pa 'y very well. That may increased. be so, but we reqluire to make our railways Tle Minister for Railways:. Because much more attractive than they are. Let va ges were doubled during that period. them carry parcels and reduce the minimum, Mr. J. H. SMTITH: NYo, it "'as merely and there will be no outcry from the public that the industry was buoyant at that time, on the score of road transport. If the rail- and so the charges were loaded up. It ways can serve the people, the people will Wvill be remfenibered that I foug~ht the pre- be satisfied, but to-day it does Dot seemt that vious Government on the increase in in- the people arc receiving proper service, spectors' fees. It takes a jarrah tree at although under the new Commissioner of least 200 or 300 years to mature. Railways that service may be improved. The 'Minister for Railways: Oh no! When the road transport was being wvorked Mr. J. H. SMITH: A jarrah tree will up in competition with the railways, why not coice to ma1turity at less than 200 years, did not the railways endeavour to combat If such a tree were used for piles, under it, endeavour to brighten up their own the existing royalty it would bring in two attractions instead of waiting for Parlia- or three loads in the round, perhaps six or ment to do something? Let all members of seven shillings, whereas if used for internal the House impress onl the Minister for Rail- purposes it would cost £5 or £6 in ways the necessity for providing a better ser- royalty. An inquiry should be made into vice. The big bug-bear is the length of time the whole of the' timber industry, for it takes for goods consigned via the rail- the Conservator of Forests has too much ways to reach their destination. If a con- power to-day. I propose later in the ses- signment be going from Perth to Manjimup sion to introduce a Bill to amend the Foreqts or Pemberton, would it not be possible to Act. The other nighlt I listened attentively get it sent direct instead of running it into f 101 ASSEMABLYJ

Bunbury and allowing- it to lie there a day Sittillg sluspended from 6.15 to 7.30 pa. or two before going onl to Pemuberton? Mr. J1. 1-. SMITJ-I: Before tea I was3 Again, regarding the passenger traffic, our spvaking- about the removal of sleepers trains are too slow and they stay too long which had been cut eighlt or tenl years in every siding. A resident of Pemberton ago. I feel sure it is the initention of the into a motor ear and be in Perth can step Government to have the sleepers re-eut anti iin five or six hours, whereas by train the to build the linle for the first :30 miles. The journey occupies 14 or 15 hours. I remem- Premier k-nhws that near that line there is her when thle train leaving Bridgetown at no better belt of timber in Western Austra- nine o'clock was in Perth by six o'clock; lia. T would also remind the Government ot whereas to-day it does not get in until eilght the line from o'clock. This is veixY tiresome to passengers. -Manjiniup to 'Mt. Barker, whliclh was approved by the Advisor ,y Board. Then there is the discomfort of thle railway 1£ this work were started the i\[inister for carriages. There should be no distinction Employment could put onl 500) or 600 men between the classes of carriage; second-class to clear the route. The G1overnment of to- passengers should be entitled to the same day were the Government of eight years ago c fotas first-class ])assengers..Atually which agreed that this was a necessary un- aire the seats in somne second-class carriages dertak-ing, and it was approv-ed by the Adl- ais hard as stone. We hax-c too much at stake visory Board. A Bill was put through both to think of leopardising our railways. Onl Rouses of Parliament anithorising the con- that I am entirely with the Minister, and I struction of the line. I now ask the Gov- applaud the Governmrent/s action in creat- ernment to show, their sincerity in this niat- ing the Transport Board in order to Jve ter. This work would be of a reproductive thle railways the supreme right to Parry our, nature. The Government should immediately goods. It now remains to bring in legisla- issue instructions for the clearing of the tion under which passengers will have to be route for the first .30 or 40 miles. They carried over our railways. It may be that would thus be carrying out the policy they 1 shall he regarded as of a class with the adopted at thle eastern enld when they built member for Avon if I talk about the Boy- the road from MVILBarker to the Franlkland Mi -Cranihroolr railway, which has been River. What I want them to do is to con- officially approved for a number of years, tinue that road from tile northern s ide of even hy the present G1overnment, and by' the flrankland River to M1anjimup), wvhichm T the Railwvays Advisory Board. Years ago presume was in their mninds at the time. Ani- a survey was made find the sleepers for the other project I have in mnind is a railwny line wvere cut, while the then Government from Northcliffe to link up with the Frank- lprollliSed to go on with the building of that land River portion, known as 'Nornalup. rail way imnmediately. I do not wish to weary That would open up much good country and memibers with the report of the Advisory would serve the new settlers on the Wralpole Board, or a recital of the great potentialities [nlet. Possibly Mr. Hill, whbo opposed the of thle country to be served by the line, but member for Albany last time, will saY that I say it is wrong that this railway should is the only solution for the South-West Pro- not have been built long ago. A new or- vince. If the railway were continued from ernment came into office, and now the srthcliffe to Mornalu it wvould open uip a .sleepers have been removed from the route. fine belt of country. T would suggest thant The Premnier: A road has been made. a deviation be made, and that the line hto Mr. J. H. SMITH: I do not say it was taken further inland to work Ihrouzh the not right that the sleepers should hare been Walpole area. That would mean roinv a removed to be used elsewhere, but I think little farther south-east. T understand that before the 'Minister allowed his officer-; to a proposal has come before the Transport remove them he should have given the local Board in regard to the Craubrook area. The people enl assurance that the sleepers were people there are nskincr for a little vulsidv being removed only for the time being. Many to enable them to transport their super sonic of the old settlers who have been battling 10 or 40 miles, to their holding-. T hope the along down there for 50 years are heart- G-overniment will -see that a subsidy iz izi-en broken over this attitude towards the ap- for this piurpose. In the Speech we are prov-ed railway. told that wre hail a record crop of fruit last [21 AI!GUs'r, 19:44.) 2031 year. The apple growers are at a very low done by the previous Government, but can- ebb) just now. With the exception of the nlot find; a trace of anything that has been war peiiod I do ziot think tlie industry has done by the present Government to estab- ever been iii such a bad state. The grow- lish fresh industries. I admit the Minis- el', would certaiily, be grateful for any as- ten- for Eznploy'vnient has been going around sistaiice that coald] be givenl to them. If a the country urging public support for local truck is filled by one grower lie gets a con- goods,. That is the song we must all sing. cession of 6d. p er ease onl the fieilnt, bill It is the only way to build uip the country. if a dozen growers fill a truck they have to I no". wish to refer to the rabbit pest inl pay the full charge of Isa ease. That i", the South-West. I recently went through a great detriment to the industry. }'or the portions, of my electorate to see for myself most part it is tile railway freight, with whether the statements that had been made the cost of tine ease and so onl, which pre- on the subject were extravagant or not. I vents thle industry from nmakinug a profit anal ran assure the Minister for Lands that the niakeF the rntu 'n to tine grower so small. trontk~e has b~ecomae a hitndrted times worse L~ast year a subsidy was supposed to have than it was a few months ago. It is aelngien ainnaunti, is, to about £11,000, for heairt-breaking for- dairy farmer., and group necessitous growvers. T dIntint believe that settlers who from many more cows than nnY grower lots received] one penny piece of they hadl last Year are getting 30 per cent. that subsidy. although man 'y of them aire ill necessitous circumstances. less butter fat, on account of the depreda- tions of ri-hnts. Otne group a' one recently% Mr. Ferguson: The Prime Minister said lost 42 head of milking stock from starva- the subsidy' had been distributed in the tion. That is a dreadful thing, and some other States. action must be taken imtmediately. Nothing Mr. J. HT. SMITTH: The 'Minister for like the present position has ever been seen Agriculture has told me that the Govern- b~efore.-A [)Ilague of juice is notinglq to it. ment have wvritten innumerable letters and At 2 o'clock in the telegrams to the Federal author'ities on the afternoon I saw thousands of rabbits all over the country- subject, butl cannot reach finality. side. Crops that had been sown and had Mr. Hawke: 'Mr. Lyons will fix that up. growvn to a height of 2ft. or Sft. were eaten Mr. J. H. S'%rTH: He is a good manl, off as bare as the floor of this Chamber. and should p~rove the leader of Australia. NCot one blade of grass could be seen. The I (io not know where the money is, it is not kam-ri country was just a mass of rabbit in a trust fund, but it has not reached the burrows. growers. I do not like the word "necessi- MrIt. J. Mlac~allum Smith: What about tons." Who is to determine the necessity of. rabbit netting? agrower? Mr. Fergison : They are all neee,sitous. Air. J. Ii. SA21ITH : I propose to read some eorrespondernle-I know the Minister for Mr. J. IT. SMJITT-I: Ever ,yone should get Lands will not mind-which passed between relief in somes way. The local market cannot the honl. gentleman and the settlers in absorb all that. is produced by the fruit- question. The settlers wrote to him- .-rowing industry. The best thing the Coal- monwealili could do wvould be to secure a, fliuring your visit to this district in -Janaary ]last, in speaking to a body of settlers op; reduction in freights from Australia to thc poin ted to discuss withI yon the tarious difll oversee markets. I cannot see that any culties the settlers geaterally were working benefit is to be derived from a bonus. under, Yout admniitted at that anectin g front %-our ottn observation the seriousness of the Tt onl 'y means bglstering upl one in- rabbit invasion of the South-West. Since diistry at the expense of another. your visit the large majority of the settlers All Oiur prialar 'y industries , with the ex- hove thtoroughtly poisoned their holdings, act- ception of gold mining, are in a bad way. hag under instructions front the local board. We have been twitted with regard to the With my own eyes I saw miles of furrows establishment of industries in Western in which poison had been laid. Australia. What have the present Gove at- A fter the sunimer the results of tine poison- men! done in that direction since the pre- ng as to :tny, noticeable decrease are nil, lbnt violis one wvent out of office? I could there is a slight decrease in settlers' stock, enumerate a number of things that were intcluditig ra.ttle, pigs and poultry, the death [ASSEMBLY.]

of such stock being, under post-rnorteni ex- settlers' rates be paid by che road board to amlinatioit, deflinitely traced to be from phos- finance the scheme. If something is not done phorus poisoning. and done quickly, the revenue from rates will be reduced consideralyt less than half through I believe the stock were picking up the baits the rabhits forcing poeple to leave their hold]- as fast as they were laid down. ings. With the flat -rate tax, road board pay- nients wvould give a revenue of a pproximiately At the meeting mentioned above you ini £24 per annum fronm each group of six settlers. formed the settlers that sufficient netting Labour: sufficient labour- is available in the would be made available to enclose the Jand1 district for extensive contracts to be let, eoil- of the settlers that is under pasture, but you sisting of setes solls and sustenance men would not consider enclosing bush paddocks. sent to this district to -lent more country. If - io rre oil the spot thle same as we are, aind The settlers say that for every square mile really' saw% the state the country is getting there aire six holdings. In place of each into with rabbits, your opinion, we feel sure, holding being netted separately-and there would be the same as that of the members of this committee, that the work being done by are brooks running through some of the these susten an Ce meii is about onl a plane itIh holdings-they suggest that a whole area putting new iron on the roof osf a -buildinig of 640 acres should whose foundations were eaten away with be enclosed. wvhite ants. At a meetingr of settlers a eominittee was appointed to go into the matter of the totting I do not agree with that last statement. of holdings, using your promhiso to thle set tlers These suggestioils that are hundbly placed ro netting as a basis to work onl. It is the findigs of this committee that we wish to before you, eveni if not considered worthy of coinsidera tion, vve hope n-ill be the means of resp~ectful ly put before 30o11for your seri.ous consideration. obtaining from, von considerably' better and In the Pem berton district, '-heaper on es,a nd if submitted to any mini- alpprOXnmltell, every, six settlers are suir- rounded by a good road; area of so bers of this committee, wrhose names are- given country below, the"-l will be placed before the settlers. surrounded, approximately 640 acres. Sugges- Teposit'in here is desperate, and requires tions: (1) Netting in the Pemberton district quick action to cheek large losses to the State to be made eon, pulsorv: (2) Ealch group of and settlers. settlers surrounded by a road to lbe enclosed in a block, as against the suggestion to net The Minister for Lands replied as fol- each individual settler's pasture, for the fol- lowvs lowing reasons:-(a) Taking the average area M.%r.J. T. Davies, secretary, dairving sec- of sctes pa stare, it wrill require .514 miles tion, Priniary Producers' A ssociation of West. of netting as against four miles if the hlock ern Australia, has forwarded mec a letter of 640 acres is enclosed in one area; (b) Block dateud the 11th june, and signed by' yourself netting will require six netting gates as as chairman, -Mr. I. B. Willis as secretary, and against 13 under the individual proposal; (c) Messrs. W. A. flriffiths, G. T. Philips and In numbers of blocks where a stream rises in WV.N. Campbell. Tn this connection my aitteii- one block and flows through four or more Lion is drawn to the depredations of the rab, other blocks, under the individual suggestion bits, and a scheme submitted for netting in it would mean in some eases the erection of a combined number of holding-s. Before dis. five or six flood gates as against one under t cussing your scheme I desire to remind you the block system; (d) i tde the block pro- that at the meeting referred to in you r letter posal in a number of cases the netting would T did not Inform the settlers that sufficient not have to be erected through summer 1 law . netting would he made available to enclose a class of country that the life of the best of netting would be very short on. Under the the land of the settlers under Ipasture. i cryv individual sfystem every settler would have definitely ii in mv own uminad decided to maoke to erect netting through more or less of it. no such promiises, and the notes taken at the Estimated cost of completed fence under the time bear out this decision, -Nowhere in the block system, £C30per mile, possibly less with notes taken by my secretary is such a, promise bulk purchasing of netting, and also rail given, anid I aol sure thiit must he so because Charges would be in truck lots. Freights on rhad determined to ma--, no such promise. T nettinfg this committee reasonably strongly resemnt vour putting into mv mouth expect proyuises I id( nolt would be at a very cheap rate. Finance, flat makernnd still further ema- rate tax on all settlers enclosed tinder block, phasising- the injury by reiterating that a system to be per settler, ommuittee hadl been appointed to go into the £3 payable the month Matter of October each year: average revenue fromt of the netting of holdings, using, as this tax per block, £18. youastate. ''may promiise to the settlers'' as a basis. T suggest that if you desire to dto The settlers can make that payment in business with this department 'you must re- strict yourself to facts, and You will find this October, which is their flush month. course wyill have the best results. As the road board is vitally- interested in response the survival of the South-WNest as a dairying In to the Minister's comtinunica- Centre, we would suggest that 50 per Cent, of tion Mr. .9. P. Stirling, on behalf of the T'21 Arc usqr, 193:4.1 2050

eommuittee. w-rote aI letter inc'udinz the fol- employment, and on what hon. members lowing parazrapb: OppOsite say has been achieved by the pre- This commiittee herewith leade2r you an sent Uoverninent for the working corn- apology for using the word ''would'' instead iniity ot Western Australia. I speak with of the actual word used] by you, which fro, a full sense of responsibility. I listened the shorthand notes of the mepeting happenedl with close attention to the Premiers to hie ''inightV' speech. The hon. gentleman devoted almost I think the Minister said he might, not ain hour to a crticismn of the utterances of would, be able to do these things. The the Leader of the National Party, and a meeting took it that he said hie would do few minutes to the speech of the Leader of them. Mfy point is the absolute necessity the Opposition. The Premier's remarks for imnediate action on account of the were most diplomatic, but they did not established fact that there is 30 per cent. touch on the Governmiient's policy for re- less of cream production now, and from a lieving the unemployment position as it larger number of cows, than there was last exists to-day. Enonmployment is just as year. If it is possible for the M1inister, a-cute flow as it was three years ago, at the either through some financial device or start of the dpression. This is so notwith- through1 the Commonwealth, to get the neces- itnding, the fact that the present Coy- sary funds, hie should secure netting for ermnent have had fully a million more of the putrp~ose of shutting out the rabbits. loan money to expend than the last Gov- My ow-n observation leads me to believe ernment had. They boast that the people that the settlcrs cannot possibly carry on ire back in employment, on which aspect their industry under present conditions. the member for Subiaco (Mr. Moloney) Men with experience of the rabbit pest In waxed eloquent, saying, "Look what we Victoria and elsewher-e tell me that the only have done to uplift the workers; look at what a satisfied community this is to-day; mnethod of combating it is wire netting, I applaud the Government for what they mnore especially on small holdings such as have done to improve the conditions of the those in our South-West. The South-West working people." Then the hon. member is full of swamips. and thickets in which waxed still more eloquent, using phraseology the rabbits live; burrows are to be found that I cannot employ, "Wle have lifted tlie all over the place, and everyw-here dozens masses; we have done this, and we have of rabbits arc seen. These facts point to clone that." The present Government have the absolute need for some immediate action. donme nothing. Can the 'Minister make provision, in any The Premier: Ah flow! shape or forum, for I suplply of netting? Air. J1. H. SMITH: The present Gov- The settlers are willing that half the local road board rates should be paid to the ernment have lied £1,200,000 more money have they done! Government in return for netting. In my to expend, and what opinion the plan of the settlers, to enclose They have broken down on their principles six blocks in one area of 640 acres, is the in even- way. They stand for day labour. best. This having been done, an inspector They say, "We will not for a moment contract principle."1 should travel around as a boundary rider, support the obnoxious and not by motor car, to look after the They declared that they would insist upon fences. If such steps are not taken, then, the payment of the basic wage, and intended as sure as we are sitting here to-night, the to see that every man was worthy of his result must be utter disaster. I have never hire and that the basic wage would be paid, before in ray life seen anything like the whether the worker was competent or in- p)resent position-millions of rabbits eveny- r-ouipetcnt. On the other hand, what do we where. I saw three cows on the point of find ? Was that policy capable of being starving in that district, just because of the put into operation? Of course it was not. depredations of the rabbits: and I have During the regime of the previous Govern- since been informed that the cows have ment, it u-as found that the State was up died. I know the Minister is handicapped against it righit to the hilt. The Govern- by want of funds; but something must be ient fed the people. Ministerial members done, or else all the settlers there will be say that we put the people on the donle. We forced to leave their holdings. Now let me didl not do that at all. The House is in- for a moment touch on the problem of un- debted to the member for Perth ("Mr. Need- 2061 [ASSEMBLY.]

lidin) ft r sonmc interestinJg figures hie secured. tax of 4Adl. in the pound. It is true that Members who su pport the Government say, the previous Administration did that, and "Look at what the Government have done. they were turned out of ollice for doing so. They have r-educed the number of peop~le on Gertaimlyl the Premier later denied ha citag sustenance from 6,000 to 2,000, and nave nmade the statement, but Labour menilers lut peop)le back into industry." Into what wvent rounrd tine country and told the people1 industry. that the finanicial emergency legislation M1r. Ferg-uson : The rabbit industry. would go by the board. Did it go by the board ? Quite time contrary. La~st year-, the Mr. J. H. SMITH: That is not so, Same legislation w as re-enacted, ±ltboui lie because, if the Government had put men Legislative Council effected sonmc altcrationms. to work to exterminate the rabbits, As at result of that, instead of taxing the some good would have been accomplished. The other evening the Premier took the p~eople and securing £200,000 from them, ats the previouis Government did, the Labour memlber for Nedlands (Hon. N. Keenan ) to Government passed legislation so that they' task because lie said the State was borrow- were able to extract £400,000 from the peo- in, money wvith which to relieve iniemploy- I,.That is a fact that cninot he denied, Ment. The Government are givingr thle peo- and i t hank the member for Perth (Mr-. ple a pittance to-day and have established Needham) for having secured the figures. the contract systeni. We heard the other Despite that, we have Government sup- night that bank managers and others had( po tcrs -on teniding that everything in the gone out on the works and were contented. garden, is lovely'. Everythi mgis not lovely. It is true that men of all types were taking How about the thousands of boys aniid girils rup the wvork, hut to earn their 30s. at week wvho to-dany have no outlook on life. I ap- on contract wvork, they had to put in five( peal to members, irrespective of party ties, and six days a week. Where are tire boasted to consider wvhether- something cannot he pirinciles and the basic wage of which Ali- done. We have in this House 50 representa- isteial members talked so muche]? The tives of 50 different comnstitiiencies. Cannot Minister for Employment has told its often sormeth ing be done to alter the pr'esenit state and long, "41stand for the wvorkers." Fre- )r affairs? 'ieitly' when he was fighting legislation in- Mr. Hawke: Consult the banks. troduced by the previous Government, he boomed forth, "I stand for the workers." Mr. J. H. SMITH: The member for 'Nor- There is at different story to tell to-day. It thain (Mr. Hawke) suggests that we shovuld mayv lie that some new method will have to nationalise the banks. I do not think that i'e adopted in order to rectify the position. will hldp uts at all. perhapl) sonmetirg along the lines suggested Mr. Cross: What dto you think should be by- the niemoner for Claremont (Mr. North), done? who said that the old age had gone and Mr. J. H. SMITH; I want members to .askedl whyv o should make slaves of the consider that phase. Some may suggest coniniunity and why they should not be fully' that it is a job for Ministers to tackle in fed in a land of plenty. It is for the Gov- ain endeavoui- to solve the problem. ernment, as I formerly told another Adini in- Mr-. Lambert : Could riot we chat the mat- istration, to see that the people receive at t- over? least the basic wagee. On the other hand, be- MrIt. J. H. SMITH: We should endeavour cause lpeople go out anid wvork by contract to formulate a-scheme so that there may be for 240is.a week, it is suggested that we can some hope for the future. We should crn- sit down contentedly! What is time t'ountrv demuvour to effect something of that descrip- coming to? How can we build uip at nation tion, rather than have time spectacle of Gov- under such conditions? It is distinctly im- ernmniet members ridiculing tile previous possible to do so. The iniher for Subiaco Government and elainminrg to hav1e improved (Mr. Mloloney') and others have applauded upon what they did. the Government for what they h ave done, M.Nr. Cross: At any- rate, that is quite true. hut where do we stand? The other aiglit Mr. J1. H. SMITH: It is not true. The when the member for Swan (Mr. Sampson) prlesenit Gocvernment have had the benefit of was speaking, the member for Forrest (Miss £1,250,000 more loan funds to spend, and Holinani) accused the Government of which they secured no additional £200,000 by he had been at supporter, of having, levied a means of direct taxation imiposed on tin [21 A~r.Us'r. 1924.1 207 people. 0f course, the claim is not true. abilitijes Grants Commission. I ,fortunatelv The Governmuent have not dlone one iota to- hie had to leave before hie could concliule his wards imiproving- the position. 'Mere sit- remarks. It is dreadful to think that we tig down complacently anid telling a mean cnoat he subject to such domination by the wvlo is starving that it is all rizht, and as- Eastern State.,. I'assi nw to another utb- curing thle youth who cannot find a .joh jeet. b it not timke the ( iovernlci t gaive that he call rest content ae something will us sonic i ndicatijolt a, to the person- tnurn up, is n good. I su ppose some altera- ntie of tile (llgmtiol1 to be sent over- tion will be effected later onl when the Prve-. seats i sulpport of the Secession peti- flier nwill go to a conference in the Eastern ion ? With all due deference to thle Leadl- States and(, especially if the Federal elve- ers of [lie Nationalist and Country Parties, l ions should take a tuiirn conti-ary to what I would prefer to see a non-political dele- wec anticipate, will say to the then powers- gation, compi1 osed of members of thle com- that-he, "The position is this: T have "got to iniittee who dlid all the work in preparing get back, and I want sonic more mnv1 [lie Case for Secession. If representatives The Premier: I would be cheap at the of particular political pnrties are included, price. it will give the delegation a political atmons- piere, whereas the delegation should be re- M-\r. J. H. SMITH : I dto not desire to lie presentativ-e of Western Australia as a eritieai, but merely to point out to members whole. I do not desire to discuss the posi- sitting- onl the Government beaches just regarding the AgricultuTal Bank but I whIere they stand. They must prove [heir tion believe I can voice a protest onl behalf of bonia fides. The member for Canning (Mr. every member of the House when I say Cross) wvill have a hard job to win his seat that it was a matter of bad taste on the a.-Ain. Where does he stand in this mat- part of the Government to have release-i ter? Members must advocate some new mec- the Royal Commission's report to the Press thod; I do not know what it will be. It before members of Parliament haed had] anl may he that we must provide some new opportunity to peruse it. I believe the monetary system. I do not know where the Speaker was wrong, in allowing any (isc1s- plan will come from, but I am convinced sion on the subject, seeing that members we must change the whole of our past pro- had not received the report. The Press were cedure. I believe a definite alteration in allowed to take extracts from it, and we conditions is taking place, and we will have have had to accept what has appeared in to feed [lie people, particularly as wve have the newspapers. an abundance of food in every direction. M-%r.Lathiam: It was a matter purely' for Our primary' industries ai-e starved because the Government, not for this House. no adequate price is available for our pro- The Minister for Lands: Do you not duets. I do not. desire to deprecate any- know that every Royal Commission's report thing the -Minister-foi- Leads is doing, for has been released in the same -way? Iwant to assist him in every possible way, Mr. J1. Hf. SMITH: Two wrongs do not but it is impossible for group settlers, es- make a right. pecially those with families, to exist oil the Mr. Ferguson: The report was made to present allowance of £6 a month. How can the Governor, not to this House. they be expected to do so when they have M1r. J1. H. SMITH: As Parliament passed boys and girls of ages ranging up to 2-1 and the motion, surely members should be en- 25 years who are practically starving, while titled to receive the report first. the girls have no clothes and the boys no Ifr. Stubbs: The Government made the boots to wear? appointment without reference to Parlia- Mfr. NYorth: Would you approve of reduc- ment. ing the retiring age? The Minister for Lands: And the Com- Mr-. J. H. SMITH: I do not know what I mission reported to the Governor. would do. That is a function of the Gov- Mr. . H. SMITH; I do not wish to com- ernment. They should see to it that such ment on the report at all, but the Speaker conditions do not obtain. The Premier was wrong in allowing any discussion on gave us some illumiinating information the this matter. other night when he discussed his dissatis- Mr. Wansbrongh: You are reflecting on faction with the findinges of the Federal flis- the ('hair. [AS SEMBLY.'

IMr. J. H. SMITH: I have no desire to do Mr. Teal, President of the Farmers9 and that. I trust the Minister for Rail- Settlers' Association of New South WVales, ways will make a note of my pro- miade the following statement in speaking test regarding the removal of sleepers of the Lyons Ministry- required for the proposed Boyup Brook Unfortunately%that particrilar AlinistrY hail Cranbrook railway. I ish to assure seemed to be singularly devoid of knowledge the Minister for Railways that I am entire- of the i ndustry and we had had at repetition 1ly With i lm. The railways are necessary of the bunglin~g niethods of preceding years. The financial assistance granted had been so to open uip the country. I should like the hedged around with irksomne conditions that Minister for Lands to accept my remarks sonic of the growers bad not yet received pay- in the spirit in which I in 'tend them and snent and it would be weeks or mionths before endeavour to provide wire netting for the the distribution was conipleted. settlers in my district. l am certain that So the association consider it has not beeni unless something is done immediately there satisfactori ly distributed in Newv South is a grave danger of the dairying industry WVales. [In Western Australia, apart from in my district being closed down, and any the comphlaint made by the lion, member as action of that kind would of course spread to no ])aylient having been made by way of throughout the -whole of the South-West. a neces.,itous grant to owners of motor The rabbit menace is a really serious one. cars, the distribution has been made speedily and there has not been a solitary com)- THE MINISTER FOR. LANDS (Hon. plaint, in fact the Bank officials have done X. F. Troy-Mt. Magnet) [8.161': excellent work. They have distributed the 1 propose to address only a few words whole amiount available at the rate of 3s. to the House, particularly in reply 6d, per acre, aiid are now dealing with the to the complaint mnade by the Leader necessitous cases, and a few other eases. of the Opposition regarding the dis- Mr. Lathani: Anid a few other eases! tribution of Commonwealth relief to The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Yes; I wheat zroiwerq. I should like to explain will give reasons for those few cases. Here understand it, and to the position as, I we have retained £C65,000 for necessitous of the hon. gentle- show that the criticism eases. The possession of a motor car is not inan was not entirely justified. The lion. regarded as proof that a man is not necessi- complained of the manner in whichi member tous. the bonus waJs distributed. He stated that Mr. Latham: Thmat is time excuse for it in New South Wales, Victoria and South iii every instanee. Australia, it had been distributed much The MINISTER FOR LANDS: No. more satisfactorily. New South Wales and Mr. Lathani: Then I will show you the Victoria, lie said, paid 4s. per acre, by way letters. of the bonus, whereas Western Australia The M1INISTER FOR LANDKIS: The had paid only 3s. 6d. per acre. He said thnt Banik holds1 that a roan who is able to buy in South Australia the Government paid petrol is Riot necessitous. only 2s. per acre, but it necame Is. Gd. Mr. Lathami: Some farners have been more in necessitous cases. it seems ])eCu- refused although their cars have not been liar that New South Wale.-s anid Victoria licensed for two years, and they could not were able to pay 4s. per acre, whereas in giv tlim away if they tried. South Australia only 2s. per acre "'as dis- The MINISTER FOR LANDS: There tributted. We in Western Australia have has been no distinction whatever. The Bank been able to distribute .3s. 6d. per acre is operating Ont precisely the same prin- and have retained £65,000 for necessitous ciple as was followed last year, and takes eases. the attitude that when a farmer applies for Mr. Ferguson: Akbig percentage of the assistance as a necessitous case, he is not in farmers in New South Wales were not en- necessitous circumstances if he can purchase titled to receive it, becase thoy were lpetrol for a motor car. wealthy people. MrIt. Lathanm: I say it is a violation of the The MI11NISTER FOR LA NDS: Perhaps Commonwealth Act' so. The distribution in Nei-, South WVales The MINISTER FOR LANDS: The and Victoria has not been free from friction Comlmioniweal th Government have agreed as. the Leader of the Opposition suggested. that our attitude is right. South Australia [21 AUGUST, 1934.] 209 has also retained a certain amount for neces- mtatter of fact he does not. The Bank has sitous cases. done its best to distribute the money, and Mr. Latham: South Australia paid1 Is. 6d. the same principle operates as operated last per acre to any man who bad not got three year. I admit that the prindiple operates bushels p3cr acre. somewhat harshly against a man who has The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Such a an old car, but if the door is left open, manl would be necessitous. If a farmer every car owner must be entitled to the hI this State does not get more than three grant. bushels per acre, he must be in necessitous Mr. Latham: I think wye should chal- circumstances. in this State we paid men Tll-(- that ruling in a court. I do not think who had reaped six bushels and ten it would stand. bushcls Per acre, but we did not pay a man The MINISTER FOR LANDS: I had who could buy petrol for a motor ear. A the advice of the Crown Law authorities in farmer came to my office the other clay and the beginning, and we also consulted the told me that he did not have 2d. with which Federal Government. I am prepared to say to buy a stamp. When he went ouCi 1 iicked that the Bank's attitude is legally correct, up a dlocket fraon the floor, and it proved although it may not be quite morally cot- to be a. receipt for £1 worth of petrol ob- ract. tained by that lual in Perth. Yet he had Mr. Latham: I w'ill wire the Prime Min- told me just before that hie could not afford ister to-morrow asking if the possession of 2d. for a stamp. I have no objection to a a motor ear prevents a man's receiving the farnmerts owning a car, but the Bank has grant. adopted a reasonable attitude in saying that The MINISTER. FOR LANDS: Senator if a ml can buy petrol for a motor car, Johnston spoke about motor ears, but we he is nlot a necessitous farmer. A necessi- have to remember that an election iq impend- tous farmer is a man who is in want of ing-. What would he not advocate when there food for his family' If the Bank attempted to w-as all election? He is all things to all mneet thie claims of all such persons, there men. I have a perfect contempt for Bertie would be a very small amount available to Johnston's opinion on anything at this or distribute to necessitous cases. We have at any other time. An election is impending reserved £E65,000 for necessitous farmers, and( hie will not take risks. I ami sure and theyN will receive only about £12 each. that the Leader of the Opposition will If that stin were divided amongst the whole get a n affirmnative reply because of of thle farners, it would be so small that the approaching election. However, the the division wvould not be worth while. A correspondence is onl the file before me. I sumi of £12 to a necessitous farmer, how- agree that there are harsh cases, but I want ever, is something. I know that in some in- mnembers to realise that if the Bank opened stances a car might be dilapidated, but once the door were opened wider, once the the door to an owner of a car, it could not Bank paid the necessitous grant to any per- draw the line at the man with a dilapidated car, but must give the son posessig a motor car, it would have grant to every farmer. As regards the to pay to all. There could be no distinction. necessitous cases admitted, Although I bear in mind that a farmer is thle amount will permit of only £E12 being entitled to have a motor ear, all things distributed 13cr head, a very small amount. considered, I have to stand behind the Mr. Seward: A very considerable amount Bank. to some people. Mr. Latham: The farmers keep thous- The MINISTER FOR LANDS: If the ands of motor cars in the terrace. total were distributed amongst all the claim- The MINISTER FOR LANDS: I do not ants, the amount per head would be so small support that. if the hon. member is correct that it would not be worth while dUstributing. that all the farmers are down and out, how I would rather have something substantial can they keep motor cars in Perth? for those who need it badly than an unsub- Mr. Latham: They pay their contribu- stantial amount for everybody. tions through everything they buy. Mr. Latham: At that rate there must be The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: If a 5,000 claimants. man is in necessitous circumstances, how The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: I am tak- can he keep a motor car in Perthl As a ing the report of the general manager. [ASSEMBLY. I

Mr. Latham: Twelve times five would referred? Here is one form merely asking make 060,000. thle applicant whether he is share-farmu- The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: The gen- ing or leasing land-particulars that eral manager informs me that all are claim- the trustees must have. Then there ing as necessitous eases, and the distribution is the decl aration by the wheatgrower "r the nevessitous g-rant will be determined with regard to finanicial assistance. by the necessities of the farmner and his; There can be no objection. to that. Next there himil ' . not onl the possession or a mo1tor ear. is the application for assistance under the The Leader of tile Opposition stated that the Commonwealth Wheatgrowers' Act. The paymvent, onl an acreage basis was most tun- applicant has, to give particulars showing fair'. for what purposes the grant is required. 31r. Lathamn: No. That is, the necessitous g-rant, not the bonus. The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: I think Then there is a declaration hr settlers claim- the hon. member was so reported inL"Hin- illg assistance if income11 Was eafrned during ,id.' He may have been misreported. t he year ended June 1933. This is used M1r. Latham: I do not think so. only InI thle ease where a farlmer pafid income The MINISTER FOR LANDS: The h)oi. lax in the previous year and] because of thiat member criticised the documents submitted was not entitled to assistance. by the bank to claimiants. I want to show Mr. Latham : The Commonwealth Govern- thle House that those documents are not so mnent told you thait a certificate from the objectionable as hie would have its believe. Comi)lissi oner of Taxation would be sumefii- They are perfectly reasonable. Certain eat. forms have been issued, similar to those The MINI STER FOR LANDPS: We shall issued last year. The Wheatgrowers' Relief have to wait until next year for thalt. The Act prescribes that people who paid income farmers in this, country' are not required to tax last year are not entitled to relief. submit their incomne tax returns for 193:3-314 Mr. Lathain: It provides somiething( fur- until the end of this month, and the Taxa- ther. tion Department does not get the assess- The MITNISTER FOR LANDS: Yes, it ments out until next rear. provides further that if the applicant shows- Mr. Lathianm: The very questions y%ou are circumstances by which he will not receive asking there are outside that altogether. income tax this financial year lie will he The MHINISTER FOR LANDS: No. entitled to thle relief. M.Ir. Latham: Yes, read it again. MrIt.Latham: That is so. Thle MINISTER FOR LANDS: This is The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Quite a the information they asked for. The appli- number of farmers have applied under that cant is required to submit particulars of in- section of the Act, hut when those people come for the years 1932-S3 and 1933-34. make application for the grant onl the Mr. Latham: The year 1932-33 has- no- ground that they' will pay no income tax this thing to do with it. year, the ' muinst show proof. The MINISTER FOR LANDS: He hast Mr. Latham: The form has nothing what- to give the locations cropped in the 1932-331 ever to do with that. season and the same for 1.933-34, the area Thle MINISTER FOR LANDS~c: The Ban-k cropped in 1932-33, the quantity of wheat, would not he entitled to pa 'y a person who oats and barley and the area cut for hay in merely said that hie would riot pay income 19.32-3.1 and 19433-34. The trustees ask' for tax this year. Claimants must give proof, the total expenditure. Now since the income and that is all the Bank asks. tax Comimissioner will not issue his assess- Mr. Latham: Is it? ments for some months, it is reasonable that The MINISTER FOR LANDS: TheBank the bank should be able to cheek this year%~ is entitled to ask that. If it -did not, it would expenditure as against that of last year. not be interpreting the Act properly. Mr. Lath am: I wvill reply to that when MrIt. Lathamn: The Bank authorities have we come to the Estimates. no right to do it. The MNINISTER FOR LANDS:- After The MINISTER FOR LANDS: They all, what is wrong with asking for in- have, and under the interpretation of the formation fromt a mnan claiming to be en- Act, they do it. Now what are the objee- titled to a bonus on the ground that hie will tional forms to which the hon. member be exempt from income tax this year? (21 ACI;UsT, 19.34.] 2111

Mr. Lathamn: Mixy do not they asik for till the Opposzition becanie unduly warm about the information? tile matter and he can have no cause for The MIN\]STEfi FOR LANDS. \Sow the ecomplainit albout the investigation. There Leader of thi. Opipositioi. is enanging his is ano1ther matter. The Leader of the Oppo- round. sition said that the interpretation of Ir. Lathanm: No; I say they hare the Section 11 wa causing great dissatisfac- c-ff-onterv to as;k for that informlation, It tion, that is, in regard to the payments in is impetinenit. deceased estates, The Crown Law Depart- The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Tue ment ruled as early as last February that Leader of the Opposition now says it is im- the executors could uiot handle the money, pertinence on their part. that it miust bie paid to the heneficiaries, and Mr. Latham: Of course it is. that if tile execuitors were allowed to handle The MINISTER FOR LANDS: The hen. the money it could lie tused to pay debts, ntinher would know all about that ir hi. Which %itwscontra iv to Coinnlonlweal rh i oten - had to administer the Act. We miust ho I Mins.Wht disturbed the hon. inemlicis able to make comparisons between A man'si ;iii,'d disturbs mine also, and that is the operations last year and his operations this reason wh 'vthe mnatter has beens held up. to Year. I asked the Commonwealth Government give an1opinlioli oil this mnatter, and I Ailoul'l Mr. Latham: This isi the only State that mninute to me- does so. like to quote Mr. 'MeLarty's The M1INISTER FOR LANDS : I would A letter was received on the '219t JiL~e froml all the Department of Commerce :sl-ing for cer- not have the slightest hesitation in giving tain information. We wrote to the secretary that information. and mentioned the various letters written Mr, Latham : Would you send your as- fronm this office and askedi if they could do seasment notice to a district office? anything to expedite the reply. This was dated the 7th .Julv. Onl the ith .July a The M1INISTER FOR LANDS: I wouldl further letter was written hr the Premier to not care to whom it wvas sent. the Prime Minister, and onl the 30th July a Mr. Lathans: They asqked for it. rpywas receivedl fromn the Prime 'Minister whitl dealt only with the question of pay- The MXiNISTER FOR LANDS: The, ment in the ease of whcatgrowers wrho subl- Leader of the Opposition said that they dlid sequelitly died after putting in the crop. A not ask for aill, they asked for only part. telegram was seot onl the ]at August to the Secretary, Department of Conmneroc. askingr They' required an indication that thle appli- if hie could deal with the cases specifically canlt for relief under the Commion wealth law mentioned in the letter of the 28th May was entitled to it. a-ddressed to the Prime -Minister, and a reply was received onl the samei dlate that thle Fed- Mr. Lathanm: I hope that if there is 1i eral ( rown Law authorities hiad been re- be anyv more distribution while you are Mfin- qluested to expedite the reply. ister for Lands, it will be made by the Conm- nonwealth Government. Thlis is not cleair-cut legislationi. It is legis- lation that is very difficult to interpret and The MIJNISTER FOR LANDS: If it I cannot understand how the Federn] Goy- comes to that we do not want the distribution. ertmnent could have passed it. We can get I am just as fair as is thle hon. member and no direction from the Commonwealth and he knows that the matter will be as safe so we are holding up these matters because with me as it was with him last year. the Crown Law Departmient say we cannot Mr. Lathiam: I had nothing- to do with it pay. Although we have written to the last year. Comniorwealth the;v will not let us have a The MINISTER FOR LAN\DS: Yen' reply, and we cannot pay until the matter well. The lion, miember knows that he did is cleared up. That disposes of the cques- thle sane thing. What was there unreason- tion of the wheat bonus and I hope lion. able about it? Does he tlink that every set- members opposite will realise that the dis- tler in this country will apply for this tribution in Western Australia has been money? Of course hie will not. Sjonc will and very satisfaictory. All the farmers have some will not. The Bank is entitled to get received their payments except those whose the facts. PersonallTi if T thlink T am justi- applications have been held up for the fied in g-iving it I will do so and what is reasons, I have given. We liave paid neces- more I am warranted in giving it, otherwise sitous farmers a sum of £C11,000. I hope I cannot prov-e my ease. The Leader of in the future the Commnon weal tl Govern- 212 [ASSEMBLY.]

Inent will pass legislation that will be clear cry- under sheclter. The Governmen t have and that they will distribute the payment supplied vast quantities of material, and I themselves, because it costs us a consider- found much of it without shelter and mlost able sum of money to do so. The member dilapidated. So w~hen I met those gentle- for Nelson made somec comment regarding men at Pemberton, I was not in a state the correspondence between Pemberton set- of mind to make miore concessions. Un- tlers and myself on the subject of the fortunately, my experience is that every rabbit pest. I admit that this pest in the concession ummade by the Go'vernment is re- South-West has become very troublesome, garded by the settlers as a precursor to and I admit also time possible devastating, further concessions. So I was not im- -effects onl the pastures. When the pro- pressed by this scheme, nod furthermore, position was put up to me by the Primary was not impressed by the ability of Producers' Association, representing the manly of thle settlers to pay for any group settlers, and their scheme was ac- scheme. The bon. member has asked vaneed, I rejected it because it proposed a tile Government to do something for- the scheme by which a number of holdings settlers. I say he canl assist materially should ho enclosed. A rate was to be by speaking to those people and impressing struck and boundary riders employed, and upon them a sense of responsibility. The members know perfectly well that a scheme Government, even with their limited re- such as that would never be successful 1e- sources, might be able to do something, cause what was the responsibility of all hut tile people must reciprocate. So, would be the responsibility of none. One what is the use of thle Government pro- man might do the job) and 31 others would viding wire netting when the netting will not. Therefore the scheme did not commend not be looked after, and when the settler itself to me. I would not embark upon it will not repay a solitary penny? I do not and I do not think any other member would get these complaints from the other settlers either. Furthermore the scheme had no in the South-West, mnany of whom are possibility of success because the settlers carrying greater handicaps than the group could never iance it. The settlers put up settlers; they have wvorse properties, less a proposition about finance but I was not imp~rovements, aind not one-sixth of the impressed with it, because, I am sorry to assistance that has been afforded to say, I have never found a nunmber of settlers the group settlers. Yet these men advanced by thle willing to pay for anything are bearing their burdens bravely, Govermnt. and last year they paid 48 per cent, of Mr. Ferguson: Not all settlers. their interest and bought their own super, The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Unfor- while the group settler paid no rent and tunately only too many are not prepared only 2 per cent, of interest-not onl the to pay for anything advanced by thle Gov- total expenditure on group settlements, but ernment. The group settler has a very bad on the expenditure under revaluation of habit of writing to departments and saying, £1,806,000. I told Mr. MeLarty that, al- "According to your promise made to though the rabbits hadl come, I was not us-."' 1 do not make many promises, and gig to engage upon a heavy ex- I try to keep those I do make. Those penditure on wire netting, because I people wrote to me and said, "'In keeping felt sure the fences would not be with -your promise we have formed a coan- maintained, and little of their cost would mittee to act on your suggestion.'' I made be paid off. So I am not impressed b 'y the lno suggestion. When I went down to the schemues contemplating boundary riders district represented by the member for and excess income which could not be real- Nelson, I camne away again with a very de- ised. The member for Nelson throws pressed feeling. I found that quite a anm- his armis about and makes remarkable ber of the improvements were going back statements, calling upon the Government to nature. I saw improvements made years to do something. There is only one thing previously not being maintained, and i said lie canl do, and that is to urge his con- to Mr. McLarty when we visited one of the stituents to stand up to their responsibili- groups, ''This country has gone back ties and take their places in the community badly." He said, ''It hias.'' In only one wvith others, and bear their burdens like or two places did I find a bit of machin- other people, when undoubtedly they will get '21 Ai-ccsr, 19:4.1 213

Parliamtet tso assist them. But thle hon. because the rabbits were eating the feed. membehl)r it) championing alleged grievances Bitt before thle rabbits ever went there, the is merely taking his constituents down, be- (-;title were being starved off the holding.-. cause that sort of talk cannot dto any good. We have over the years repossessed thouis- The Premtier: And it encourages thm in an(ds of cattle on the store of starvation. their attitude of refusing to do anything. This year the increase in calves on the The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: In the group) settlements has been only 898, Walpole settlement, initiated by the pre- where tile cows on thle group settlements vious Government, the present Government numbellr 22.000. This year I advanced have provided rabbit-proof netting. When to settlers carrying undier 20 cows there I was down there I travelled round one .sup~erphosphate as a charge against the hold- property and( found the netting down for ings. Sonic regardl it is a free gift. I did chains, with trees lying on it. Those trees that, not because it was sound p~olicy, hut had not just fallen, but had been down for bvrause, if we had not flinanced the super, it inonth at least. [ told a settler that hiis there would probably have been no pasture. wire nietting ",as d]own, with trees, lyi ng onl As thle miemiber for Sussex knowvs, we are it, anl lie said the trees must have just repossesising cows down there and selling fallen. I assured him they had been down themi because they are starving. for a mionth. This Government farming Mr. Brockman: Giving them away. has been disastrous. When the Gover- The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: Yes, giv- ment find everything up to 100 per cent. ig- them awvay. The increase in the group the settler does not regard the block as his settlers' cattle should be 8,000 or 10,000 own. Certainly' he has not paid for it and calves, whereas the total numiber is 898. The what at man does not pay for he does not member for Nelson declares that we value. So despite the fact that the rabbits mnust doa something. He must tell his are a pest in the South-West what eneour- people that nothing can be done for peo- agenient is there to advance wire netting pIe who wvill not help themselves. I am to people who do not value it but will re- not against the group settler. I have the gard it merel'y as another concession? greatest sympathy with his difficulties Furthermore I am afraid that even if the and with his incapacity in some in- properties werec fenced the rabbits inside the stances to make for himself a home fences would not in mnyni cases be dealt in this country. But I dto not feel with. I do not like to speak in this war but it justified in recommnending, the spend- has to lbe done. Then there is thle further in.- of mnoney in such circumstance as objectiotn that thiis wire netting is finnned Ihave related. To-day I had brought under to the farmers out of trust funds provided ily notice a request for mowers and separa- hv the Corn me i wealth Government, and if tors. Every settler must have at mower, be- th farmers do not pay, the State has to cause if lie does not mowv the pasture at the pay. This year, because many of the farmers p~roper timie it will soon become of no value, cannot meet their instalments of interest, and he cannot wvait upon his neighbour. But representations were made to the Federal rarely onl the group settlements have I seen atmower in a shed. A settler published the Government to stand in with the State in t meeting the losses. However the Federal statement in the "Daily News" that he Government said in effect, "No, not a shil- was starving nod couldf not even afford lin. This is a trust fund and must be paid." to bay cartridges arith which to shoot When tile payment was one month in arrears rabbits. Yet he had enough money to buy they charged interest for the accommodation. a runabout, and when I visited his holding So I ama not justified iii advancing wire net- he was away on a holiday in Bunbnxy. He ting in those circumstances. It may have had a shed in which to park his runabout, to be dlone one day, but the settler and the hut his brand new mower, supplied by the community generally must recognise their Government, was left out in the open. We responsibilities before it is done. I am sure put it into the shed. In only a few instances the rabbit trouble in the South-West is really have J seen a shed sheltering a mower in bad, hut before the Government can comec that area. How can the administration have to the aid of the settlers, the settlers must the heart to do anything in those circum- reciprocate. The member for Nelson said stances? the cattle were being starved off the holdings .)rt. Stubbs: It is a tragedy. 214 [ASSEMBLY.]

The MINISTER FOR LANDS; The Ito,. The 'MINISTfER FOR LANDS: Then mieatber no doubt intends to do the we airc bound to agree. As I have pointed light thing- towards his own constituents, out, I consider that the bank officials have lint unfortunately lie always does the wrongl dlone their best in the circumsta nces and 1 thing in the House, hie misleads them. If lie have not heard At solitary complaint save tries to cultivate a sense of responsibility in that voiced by thle lion. Aliemlber. his constituents, we may be able to do some- thing for them. I do not wish to indict the HON J. CUNNINGHAM (Kialgoorlie) group settlers; quite the reverse. Ini every [9.1] :I am v ery pleased with the efforts settlement in Western Australia, wvherever of thle Goverinent to cope witl, the prob- the GJovezrnent arc advancing 100 per cent., lois a rising froni the revival vt the mini- Ilit settlers tire g-ambling onl it. Undo,' this ing industry. It is pleasing to, note fromn sv:Ztelfl no settlement is capable of success: lie Speech that the gold yield for 1933i tlie Settler lateist fir-st put some of his own eclipsed that of the previous year by 31,646 iiwv or Iabhour intto the property. finc ounces, and that the six months yield to Air. Lathianm: Are none of them ait iiVtl- the 30th June of this year exceeded that of pole or 'Nornalup doing any giood? the samne period 1933 by 16,510 fine ounces. The MINISTER F OR LANDS: 1 would The (I oveuniwnt, in, making available money not say that. for assistance further to prospect the auri1 Mr. Lathamn: You suggested it- terous areas, have done good service to the The IMINISTER FOR LANDS: Prob- State. I desire to bring under tiao notice of :mhlY. because already i a one settlement the tile Minister for Mines mneanis whereby the settlers are asking for a wvriting down. That scheme may be enlarged by providing addi- is not at WValpole. tional water supplies in the drier areas. 'lire Premier: Something in tile atmno- T here is a large extent of auriferous coun- sphere. try that is untouchable because of the scar- Mi. La thanm: Down there the.\, seemed io city of water. This fact is known to the hea better lot of plel. Minister, and I arm confident that he will 'l'le MINST'ER FOR LjANDS: They take the matter up wvith his colleagues in are, too, but all thle anie w-c shall have to order that, by the provision of adequate putl a few out. I ami Convinced that Onl aii '- water supplies, prospectinrg ay bip carried s(Itrhint~ lie 100 lier' cnt. is adrvalncedl into areas which so far have been largely to a inai oil his holding it is regarded as a neglected because of the scarcity of water. gambe. I do not wish to indict the set- The increased activity in gold mining has tiers, bilt ra ther to he]lp them. I am satis- created a problem on tihe eastern goldfields. fied tim t I caii (10 nothing, anad thiat no other particularly ill Kalgoorlie, Boulder and Mtin ister for- Lanods unlder heavenl could do Ivanhoe. This is the problem of homes. anvthi ug either. If' a settler constantly. has, Many people attracted to those areas are in mind that hie miiust receive concessions, not financial. They havlve gone there mostly no Minister canl help him. If the Govern- in search of emlploymrent and have not the nciit are to emnbaik onl fanrning , it cannot wherewithal to build homes for themselves. lie doiie under a systemi by' which the indi- The available acceommiodation has been over- ''idimal (.anI exploit tile comnmllunitvN to) hi., taxed, rents have fincrealsed enormously, and own advantage. It niay be possible under to-day it is diflicult for people to secure a sYSteia. such as that prevailinlg iii Russia homes of any kind. I was disappointed t or Italy'.v where thle government that pays the attitude of the Workers' Homes Board thle piper' calIs thmetune. The individual must in this connection. It is extraordinary that learn to exploit Ilis owin efforts and not the money may be secured under the workers' State. Exeplt by the observance of that homes scheme for building homes in agricul- pr1inIciple there cannot be much success in tural areas and that a similar measure of our- settlements. We have many able settlers assistance should be refused to people as- whoi have done good work. I hope the sociated with gold mining. It would appear Leader oF* the Opposition will be Satisfied that the Workers' Homes Board have lost, with i, aiv explanation of thle distribution of or never possessed, confidence in the gold' the bonus. mining industry. Other people are pre- Mr,. Lathiam: I will have a clhat with von pared to invest their money to provide privately. homes in those areas, hut for some unknown [21 ArC.UST, 1934.3 2151 reazoni the board lack equal confidence in or is a menace to their future. They have are not preptared to extend their policy nothing to look forward to. Every effort to the g-oldfields. M1any people onl the should be made by the people of the State godhield, are lPrepared to find a1 car- to lprovide some employment for the young tamn :iiii of moneyv if the hoard would people, if only sufficient to enable them to assist them. I 'should like the Gov- earn enough to live and dress decently. emriinent to consider this matter with a view Doubtless I shall be reminded that this to bringing under the notice of the board state of affairs arises front the depression tile nlecessity for- making advances for homes that is not only affecting us, but is wvorld- oi the g-oldftelds. The Mfinister for Em- wide. I admit that argument, but I am lAoyninent :410111d 1W congratUlated on his' nevertheless of opinion that private em- ettorts to place the unempiloyed in work. ploy'ers have not risen to the occasion anad Unfortunately he is not yet in a position that there is ample, opportunity for them to provide a continuous system of employ- to do something for the youth of the State. mnent. However, lie is doing his best. The There are other matters of importance on most distressing feature of unemployment, which I could touch, but other opportuni- to my mind, is that presented by the youth ties wvill he presented later. When the ye- of the State, This applies, not only to port of the Royal Commission on the Ag-ri- Western Australia, but to every State of the cultural Bank is discussed, I shall avail Commnonwealth. I realise that thle respon- myself of the opportunity to speak. On sibilitv for- finding work for the people thle Budget discussion we shall he able to does nlot rest solely with the Government. ventilate some of the smaller matters of No doubt the Government are doing their concern to individual electorates. The Gov- utmtost, but it is a rare experience to find ermnent deene commendation for their young men working on Government jobs. efforts to find employment for the work- Apparentl 'y the Government have their less' Twelve months ago 6,265 men were hands full in providing for the hleads of onl sustenance and the number has been families, but it is distressing to see lads reduced to 1,196. That is an achievement, round about 20 years of age who have not aind I hope that the 1,196 will be wiped yet had anl olportunity toenrn a living for off the slate within the current year. All themselves. This remark applies equally memitbers desire that our people. should be to girls. The heads of families are corn- able to go off sustenance and become pelicel to support their offspring uip to the ,absorbed in the ordinary avenues of em- age of 20 years., but the young people are ployment so that greater prosperity may not entitled to draw the sustenance allow- result, not only to themselves, but to the ance and apparently there is no oppor- State. itunity to absorb them in Government work. They are denied the right to earn a living MR. WELSH (Pilbara) [9.13]: The and they are denied opportunity to learn S peechi with which the Lieut.-Governor a trade or calling and thus fit themselves bpened Parliament contains a note of to become tradesmen in the industries of the warning that the financial position of State. Surely there is a moral obligation the State is still grave. His Excel- on private employers to do something for lency also put forward a plea for the young people. Hundreds of boys and rigid economy, which is extremely good cis who have secured their University advice that doubtless will be followed. Re- junior certificate and many who have se- ference was also made to the revival of the cured tile leaving certificate have had no mining industry as the most satisfactory chance at all. I know of lads possessed of feature of the State's development, and to Ieavin- certificates who are seeking employ- the capital flowing in from various parts of ment in the agricultural areas. Some people the world. In the Pilbara district gold nin- mig-ht Say they are fortunate in having ing appears to have taken a new lease of parents who Could afford to give them that life. There is a chance of capital being in- degree of education. That may be so, but troduced into that district, and if the hope there are others who have not had that is realised, it will prove a big factor in opportunity. Still, after large expenditure assisting the industry in the North to go onl their education, they find themselves at ahead. The State batteries in my electorate a dead end. This stultifles their minds and have been working for some time, with fair 210 [ASSEMBLY]) returns to the miners. The mines are, almost would be of great advantage to all the peo- without exception, held by men who have ple concerned. worked them under adverse conditions for Mr.* Hawke: The Government will look several years. It is gratifying to know that after them all right. the men are now getting a fair return for their labour. Different companies have Mr. WELSH: They have been very symn- taken options over some of the mines, and, pathetic in the matter but wvhen one sees the if those options are exercised, it will be a roads in the country districts of the South, big factor in giving a much needed fillip to one cannot help comparing them with the the industry. With regard to the pastoral roads in the North. I repeat I should very industry, unfortunately the good prices much like to see a further subsidy given to realised for wool last year have not pre- the Port Hedland hospital, which is badly vailed this year, and from to-day's paper iii nee d of financial support. I notice that the market is still weak. Probably we are in for a bad time, although MR. HAWKE (Northam) [9.20]: I con- the prices 'nayv yet improve. It is an Un- gratulate the member for West Perth (Air. fortunate position. The industry has a lot McDonald) on [lie opinions he expressed of leeway to make up. For the last two concerning the bad habit that has developed years, on account of the low prices for wool in Western Australia in recent years of and sheep, pastoralists have been unable to criticising at every opportunity and often keep tip their usual rate of repairs and imm- without excuse the other States of Aus- provemnents. No doubt the industry will re- tralia. cover as time g oes on1. My' own opinion is Ifr. Latham: The position is better to- that wool will hold its present price. It is dlay than it has been for a long time. very gratifying to those who brought for- ward the flying doctor scheme to see the The Premier: We have tried to study it support that has been g-iven to it. This will up a bit. prove of inestimable benefit to people out- Ur. HAWKE: The hion. member struck back, wvho would not otherwise be able to a very good note. We must all agree that secure medical assistance owing to dis- there is plenty of room for improvement tance. The hospital at Port Hedland in the relationship between this State and is running at high pressure. I should the other States and this State and the very much like to see the Government Commonwvealth. A number of indivi- icase the subsidy, seeing that the duals in recent times have merely used this question as a means of getting into £100 that is now given is quite inadequate. the limelight which in ordinary circum- If the Government wvould increase the sub- stances they could not have done. The sidy, it would be of great advantage to the hospital and the people who make use of cry has been raised without excuse and at it. The sisters in charge have at every opportunity. I agree with the hion. times great difficulty in making ends member that a great deal more judgment meet. For-merly many donations were should be shown on the whole question. If wea are to make any progress given by private lpersons, who thus in our rela- tionship with the other States and the Comn- kept the hospital going, but, since the mionwealth we ought to proceed along introduction of the hospital tax, these better lines and adopt a more sensible atti- donations have not been made. Owing to tude. When circumstances offer and they the heavy season in the North-West, the roads have become in a deplorable condi- justify criticism that is the time to indulge in it. To keep up a continual wvail as some tion and a lot of money will he required to be individuals do achieves no good for West- spent this year to put them in order. The ern Australia and only intensifies the posi- station and mining people have to get all those farmers who their produce by' road, but the condition of tion. I congratulate are members of the Primary Producers' the thoroughfares is at present heartbreak- Association upon their unanimous decision ing . There is no money available to keep in favour of compulsory unionism within them in order. Last year the Government their ranks. gave a grant for the maintenance of roads in the North. If they would do the same Mr. Latham: There is no alternative to- again this year, or increase the amount, it day. [21 AUGUST, 1934.] 217

Air. HAWKE: That does not affect the Mfr. Latham:n Your memory is very issue. faulty. Mr. Moloziey; They were preaching the Mr. IHAWKE: They expressed great sym- opposite the other night. pathy for some men alleged to have been Mr. HAWKE: The farmers who consti- dismissed from their employment, because tute the Primary Producers' Association they refused to shoulder any responsibility of Western Australia have decided unani- in regard to the maintenance of unionism mously in favour of compulsory unionism in Western Australia. A section of the for all farmers of the State and also de- local Press also took the matter up. In the cided to enforce that compulsory unionIsM leading newspaper an appeal was launched by legislation passed through Parliament. for the raising of a fund for the depend- Mr. 1Moloney: WVhat will tile Opposition ants of those who allegedly were sacked for a certain reason. The outstanding do now? feature of the controversy was that the public were Mr. HAWKCE: The farmers have taken not impressed by the claims of those men, a wrise stand. If the farmers Australia of "'ho alleged that they had been wrongly had concentrated in the past on organisa- treated. The total amount raised tion as they have promised to do in the by that appeal through th P 't Wer4 future they wvould have been in a happier Australian" was only £40, whereas position than they occupy to-day. In these a f ew weeks before many times days the most powerful organised bodies that amount had been raised through an are those that are getting the best deal. appeal to assist foreigners who had been Because the farmers of Australia are tbe affected by the Kalgoorlie riots. The public worst organised body naturally they are saw through the whole business of the getting the worst deal in this time of diffi- unionism dispute. They saw it was being culty. The only hope for them as for stirred up largely for political purposes, other sections is to intensify their organisa- and came to the conclusion that what had tion and make it as perfect as possible. 1 happened was not deserving of any finan- congratulate the farmers on the stand they cial support from them. I was of opinion, have taken and hope they will be success- and have remained of the opinion, that the ful in their attempt to bring about 100 per men who were dismissed on that occasion cent, unionism within their ranks. Farmers chose to be dismissed, not because they that I have met have raised no objection did not want to take a union ticket, but. to the policy of compulsory unionism with- because they did not want to take a job. in the rinks of the workin~g classes. They For years they had been living in the are consistent, which is more than can be metropolitan area receiving a certain said for their representatives in the public amount from the Government each week. life of the State. The dispute that occurred They would have preferred to continue in regard to the Government policy of with that arrangement rather than to go into preference to unionists some months ago the country and do work for the money they had some special features associated with were receiving. The unionism issue was only it that can wvell be emphasised. A wide- raised for the purpose of assisting their spread attempt was made to use the desires in that direction. It was unfortun- issue with the object of gaining party pol- ate for those members of Parliament who itical advantage on the part of certain pub- attacked the Government on that issue that lic men in the State. It was felt by them they chose such poor individuals upon that the opportunity was available to con- which to build their case. demn the Government and stir up public The Minister for Employment: They opinion against them. backed a loser. Mr. Latham: But the attempt "was not Air. Latham: Not one man in the House made. raised the question throughout the special 'Mr. HAWKE: The attempt failed miser- session. ably. The Leader of the opposition and The Minister for Works: Was not a tele- the Leader of the Nationalist Party were gramn sent to the Eastern States about it? bitter in their denunciation of the Gov- MAr. Latham: Not that I am aware of. erment policy, if my memory serves me Mr. HAWKE: Although the matter may right. not have been raised in this House, it will 21S 21SASSEMBLY.]

be remembered that it was raised in the Mr. Latham : The statement is untrue. newspapers, and raised in a very strong- Mr-. HAWKRE: 1 am iifraid tile memory manner by thle Leader of the Opposition of thle Leader of tie Opposition is not as and the Leader of the Nationalist Party. groodl as it might be. M1r. Latham: I ask for a withdrawal of Mr. L.atlhanm : It is not a matter of that statement, which is absolutely untrue. mlenuiorv. Mr. SPEAKI(EU: The member for Nor- Mr. HAWNRE: A Federal election is now than$ hias beeni asked to withdraw the state- onl thle people. I have no desire this even- ilien t. ing to deal with the _1r. HAWKRE: I have no objection to issues of the election, but the speeches delivered hiere this after- wvithdrawing- thle statement, but proof of it no~on show that thle country i4 in a sick will be produced in due course. Condition, that tie prima ry industries inl M.Nr.Latham: You prove it. pairticuular are having a life-and-death Xr. HFAWKE: It is also true, as the struggle. They show that thousands of Mlinister for Works has suggested, that youlii gDmen and1(young women are without some person in this State, holding a position emiployment, and without aiiy prospect of in public lire, or sonic hiigli position inl the it. Utterances made here to-day anmd also State, sent a telegram to the Prime Minis- last wreek show up rmarkably the extent ter uriging that lie and the Loan Council of thie bluff that has heen indulged in dur- shoulid retuse to grant loan funds to the hug recent wueeks b)' the Primie M-inister Treasurer of the State until the policy of and those associated with hiim iii tile Government onl tis question had been the elec- altered. tion campaign, because the cry of the Prime Mr. Latlham: I deny any knowledge of Minister and his Government is that they that telegram., have restored confidence amid have estab- The -Minister for Works: A wire was lIslied a1 substantial measure of recovery, published in the Press to try and stop us aind that thinigs have brightened upl won- g-etting the money. derfully inl Australia during thle last year Mr. Lathamn: I never saw it. or two, It is nlecessary'% that the people 1Mr, HAWKE: There is no need for thle should face thin true situation. It is meees- Leader of the Opposition to make denials, sary' that they should realise that conditions -is )0 olne hias suggested that lie sent thle in Australia are being miaintained to soiie extent, amid that industry is being miaintained A11r, Lathamii: But there mighlt he such to at large extent, Only by the policy of all an implication. Australian Governments of borrowing large M-. HAWKCE: I think the Leader of thle sumis of money aid pu~tting themi into cireu- ()[)position is a1 little too touchy onl that lationl by providing employment of one kind point. and another. That policy is having a benie- Mri, Lathami: I am touchy when state- ficial effect, inammueh as it is circulating ments are mnade which are untrue. additional purchasing power and thus in- Mr. HAWKE: That point will be de- creasing the demiind for goods, and by that .cided in thle future. I aml sure every' mni- means niainutaining industry at a certain her onl this side of the Chamber renlienil- level. On the other hand, though, it is hiay- besthat the Leader of the Opposition and ing a most dangerous imifiunee uponi the ,the Leader of the National Party condemned stability of every Australian State, lbecause ,strongly the Mlinister for Employment and it is loading uip a debt burden and ain iii- the Government at that time in regard to terest liability already highily serious for the policy put into operation. It is true, thme induistries and the ])eople of Australia. as oswgested by the Minister for Enploy- That systemn caiinot continue a g-reat deal went, that thley, failed badly in the attempt longer. Australian taxpayers are now pay- mnade then to gain political advantage. As ing £1,000,000 a wveek in interest onl the a mnatter of fact, they were backing a bunch national debt. That debt is growinig con- oS coiin11111iists, :as was knowrn to miost peole tinually, and thle interest liability is ilereas- ,it (lhe time. Thle ILeader of the Opposition ing continually; mnd thle whole thing is being and the Leader of the National Party- have kept up in a most unreal amid artificial wall. found this out since, and as a consequence Mr". North : We ar-e borrowing- ourselves have kept silent about tile matter. Out of debt! (21 ArcusT' 19:14.] 219

Mr[I. 1-IAWNE: We are eitdeavouring to another party puts this new system into horrowv ourselves out of the depression; but operation, it wvill come, in spite of what some under the present financial system tha t is people may do to prevent its conming. Sonie not possible, because the more one borrow, parties and, some individuals, by endimHg the worse ones position becomes, and tim hugte sums of money, by spreading propiu- more deeply' into depression one sinks. W heo ganda of a terrorist type, may delay tile we of the Labour movement suggest thaqt a, touting of this very necessary Change ini thle vhan-,re in the financial system is required, financial sYstemn; but although they miay de- weCare imnmediately charrged with beinig ,12 lay its couin, for at period, they cannot pre- pinsj ie, aii d aire iminmediately told that thle vent its beiin set tip eventually. So I re 't preset t )11king- sylstemi has miet every' de- (-initent ti the sure and certain knowleduc imatnil upon it, has saved the nation, and is thabefore1 a great period of time pas-c,. I he seecure basis upon which we must bu11ildi wre slia Ii see the usiterinJi-ill of aI rw finani- tip) ol-rfutur Ipl~rosperit y. I IiI finite± pre- viatl system, which wrill assuire to lie ])copies pa red to admtit that we of tire Labour I['arty of' tile world thle fall advantag-es of the g-reat do not know anything- about thle question. aidvatnce tmade ill scien tifi' prodluctionr dur- that our] anlal vsi of the situation is wrong, ing recent times. I wish briefly to sugrest and that tile polic Nve puI't forwarjd is wrongl. to the Governmten t and to the House i-er- I do not ask tire people to consider our ta i itP wh~liich I feel ought to be done views at ail. But I propose to (quote a state- and entit be done. We ii, this Parliament ment maade by thle jpresident of the Bankers' aire in at rather unenv-iable position. We all Gutild, when speaking at the annual meeting- have our own ideas of what oughlt to be of the g-uild in London during May of this ([one4. WVe canl all, like the itember for- Year. The statemtent I propose to read is Nelson (Mr. -J. H. Smith) , urge that taken froit the ''Bulletin" published in Scot- this he clone, and thtat that bie done, and land, whli ch appears to lie ;I much better that sonmethinrg else hie ])tile: bu0t we are, if- paper than tie "BulIletitn' puIblishe~d tin Syd- wars consciolus, It wve airc resptiisiltie. ilia new. The statement is as follows:- the present Coverninei. like most other Control of the inantcial svstei is coilllig State tiovernznents, are tinder the control of You hav~e i-lear evidience that it is iiot nierelv a party')0,oit ical stulnt. The dire reeds of aii whia tever amton t of money is mnade ala ilable industrial world in chtaos, iatioinilv andf iii- to thin. TheY taty wislt to do a mtillion anal ternationally, mlake it ievitalY. -X4 one One tlInngs, bitl titey' cannot do those rhinzs eceip t the tritiuteiligeirt rl imlaginle thile iiom- 1 unless the nlecessary muoney is available. tinn ity of tile tis i vial systema is we niow k no". it. Don't waste yoilr titme in fornirla I. I ider tlte pmeseztt financial systemb alone'IC lug, resolutions asking for tile executive roin- doled out to GoverU11Cient according to t1le raittec to dlecla re its 1 ,oliuv oil natloiralisatie"o of hanking or its control. If anli win-m it decisions of anl Organisationt which works conmes, it wiviii(ont front far grEater fortevs to at large extent under cover. i have b~een titan you an iointrol; and, inuidemtallY, it is of thle opinlion for some11 timle past that at as likeciv to route frot t lc'ouservartive Part.% great deal of benefit could be achieved in hIt oor as frion a Labou r Part v; and even it ma ' routie froii, the ha nks t hem~selveTs, the waly of efficiency if an exp~ert investi- dri veu by ecotol, .st resses t hey canlbnot gation were made into the departmlents coamt rol. of g-overui eni in this State. I feel thlta [ an fa rgelv il ar~reezueiut with that predic- if thle im-etnier and his (abninet wetre to look tion. I feel positive titat the people of Aurs- Careutl lY tl-ough0 the i'rbli, Service, tllY tralia and flic people of other countries will Would he able to choose a young mtanl wit not ronititnue for many years longer to sufC- organlisin~r ability w-ho could undertake tire fer the imposition of the contradictory situ- ta4k Of co-ord inatitug tile '-aious depart- or ion itow existing. I feel positive inl myt, ients in Western Australia. That has beer, own miand that men and women the world donle in other States of the Commtonweatlth, over will demand a radical alteration of the .ind wvith excellent re~ults. I ot not sug- existing- financial arra nernent. They wvill gesting that any inquiry be set oil foot with demand that the benefits of scientific iwo- the object of retrenichinJg ;I htundred or at dluction shall be made available without the thoumsanmd meal. I am merely sugg~estilnL, int I hindrance of a private monopoly control at co-ordinatitu inurmi ry should lie hteld with over the credit svstemi in the various corn- teoject of so arrainging and co ordinatin-r tries of tite worfl. Whether one party or effort in thle different departments that the 920 [ASSEMBLY.]

maximum of efficiency and benefit miay be arie held. MAfn think that because they' at- received. tended the I oli when the last ')tate elec- The Mlinister for Works: There is a high- lito, was hel d, that their names will be on salaried mnail whose permanent job it is It) thle Commoniwealth roll. If we had a uti- do that. turin roll for bothi State and~iComnowealth, Art. HAWKE : Possibly that individual there would be no such difficulty. blas been in the position too long. Mr. Lantham: W hat about wyhen, the boun- The Minister for Works: He has bee,, riaries of electo rates are itot to-termninus? there for only two years. Mr. HAWK&: I think that difficulty Mr. HAWiKE: That may be the ease. could lie overcome eansi ly. It would necessi- In any event, we have not been acquainted lte aninnarngemnent with the (Commnon- with the results of any of his work. If weal thi with, a view to establ ishinlg electoral that officer is doing the job, then I sin- subdivisions that wvould coincide with our "rsely hope and trust we ina 'vbe in torne'] elector:.tes. In severul of the other States just to w~ha t extent his work is beilnc Ca C- there is but one electoral roll, and although ried out and just to what extent co-ordin- thle Comnmonwvealth wonuId requirec to al ter shiot, is being accomplished. the Federal subdivisions in Wceen A ustra - M r. Thorn : If y'our i dens weraen marid hia, I believe that one electoral roll would out, they wvould mean, retrenchment. give ariat satisfaction. I am of the opinion tlitnt the elections to choose members of both IMr. HAWKE: I (10 not think so. 11. the eisaieAssemibly and the Lezislative belief is that they would mean ail imiprove- ment in services to the public. I think the Council should be held oil the one day. effect would be to make some men available Members: Hear-, hear!. for other services which could u-eli be ren- 'Mr. HAWKE: It seems ftbsuid that the dered in this State. The Government are people should have to go to thne polls in, spending thousands of pounds each year in say, April of this year to elect one set or paying salaries to a certain number of offi- members of Parliament, and then, a month cers. They could go on expending the saim later, a certain section of those electors have amount of money, but they could so inerenue to go to the polls to elect the members of the efficiency as to obtain for the public a another branch of the Legislature. Before much better service: and as a result there the present Parliament has run its course, need not be one 'nan or one worman re- I hope a favourable decision will bea arrivedI trenched. So I hope that if the officer is at in that regard. It would be better for all oil the job, we may be able to obtain some concerned and would save much unnecessary definite information as to how his work is expense caused by the present system. The progressing: for if he is doing the job satis- money so saved could be spent in far be!- factorily, there is no need for any other ter ways. I am of opinion, too, that mem- action to be taken. I suggest, too, that the bers of both the Legislative Assembly anid Government during this Session give consi- the Legislative Council should enjoy the deration to the question of amialgamnating same period of parliamentary life. I have the Commonwealth and State rolls. This nlever been able to understand why one sec- has been attempted on previous occasions, tion of the Legislature should be elected for li.nt without success. In past Y'ears another six years, and another section for three place has defeated the proposal, simply be- years. I offer the suggestion that members cause it was a new proposal. In these days, of the two branchecs of the Legislature when economy is the cry, and when effici- should be granted a four- 'year term of menm- ency should be demanded, the amailgamaition bership. T believe that a six-year term is would he a step in the right direction. It too long for Council members to enjoy, and would abolish a. good deal of duplication a three-y'ear term is too short for Assembly and expense, and place the public in the members, especially' when we consider that nosition of haivinz to trouble about only one the Assembly members really constitute the electoral roll, instead of two, as is the ease Government of the State. I hope Ministers to-day'. Ta consequence of there being two will give some consideration to that ques- electoral rolls, some people will find that lion. I feel that the public are of the opirn- their names do not appear on the Common- ion that the three-year term is too short, and wealth rolls when the next Federal electious if the members of all four political partieg [21 Ac-usv, 1934.] 22121

-1 include the Independent in this Chain- 'Mr. HAWKE: It may be an endless sort her-were to go to the country at the next of job, hut the Leader of the Opposition general election., favouringc a poiicy of a w-ill agree that a great improvement can be four-year Parliament for members of achieved if the task is taken in hand. both lwaneher of the Legislature, I Mr. Lathani: Quite so. am sure the proposal would be en- Time Minister for -Justice: You know that dorsed b)'y an overwhelming majority we -are proceeding with that work and that of the lpeople. Such an arrangement the Land Act was c-onsoidated last year. would help Governmment-;, and It would brim- Mr. HAWKE: I was glad to note that a about greater continuity of policy. It -woul start was made last year, and to have the give memnber at l east t wo years within Minister's assuramnce now that the work is which to do the really effective work for th(. to continue. State. There. are man y other 5iibJeetF with The Minister for -.Justice: The Road Di6- which [1 desire to deal but as the Pre- tricts Act is being- consolidated] now, miner is desirous of forcing this debate to Mr. Latham: And the Health Act as well. a conclusion this evening, I will make The "Minister wn -y for other spakers, uinless the Premier for Justice: Ye-:. feels inclined to rep)ort progreis, in whielh Mr. HAWKE: A Press telegIram frma cvent I shiall inflict myself upon members Canberra was also published indicating what to-11or1row for a little while longer. the Federal Gov-ernmnent were doing regard- ing this particular matter, and I trust the Mr. Latimam: We c-ould not agree to that;- consolidation of our Acts in Western Aus- it would be a new departure. You mnight tralia w~ill be speeded tip so that the public be inclined to agree to five-year Parliament-; may know what laws are in existence and then. what isi expected of them. There is also Mr. H{AWKE- No, T think that periodl the question of the simplification Of our sys- would be too long, particularly if an un- tem of taxation. I shall not dwe'l upon that satisfactory Government were in power. matter in detail because it has been before 11r. Lathamn: \X~e have one now. the public in recent months. There have Mr. HAWKiE: To keep an unsatisfactory been conferences between representatives of Government in power for five years would various Governments and between the Conm- be more than the State could stand in its maissioner of Taxation and the Deputy Com- present jposition. The Government should missioners of the various States and Com- give some consideration to the consolidat- monwealth. 'Much progress has been made, ing of the statutes. I have been following and I am sure the taxpayers will be pleased up hy investigation what is being done in it the result is ai substantial simplifi- the other States. I do not say that we should cation of the present taxation. system. At follow what they do if whait they are at- present people are no sooner finished with temiptingo is not right, but in the consolida- the worry of putting in- one set of forms tion of statutes., I think what has been done than they have to worry about- is right, and, in those circumnstances, it is, Mr. Latham: The subsequent queries. our duty to follow them. The following tele- M1r. HAWKE: I was not going, to men- eu-am from Adelaide, dated the 4th April of tion that, but the question of the payment this year, appeared in the Press- of taxation, only to have the worry of fill- The work of produing the statutes of the ing, in other forms shortly afterwards. Sonic- South A ustralian Parliament in six or seven time ago a matter cropped up in connection volurnes of c onvenient size hag been begun bY with the railways at 'Northani that requires the Parhiaiencmarv Draftsman ('-\r. F, TL. further consideration. A railway official was Beau), with the idea of sirnplifying the law at a mininitim charge. The volumes will a1lso ifl default to the Government to the extent contain references to the regulations and iro. of about £79000 over a long period. He clamations in force, corresponding sections of committed suicide when the trouble was dis- the TImperial Acts and a reference to time covered and the officials of the Railway De- judicial rlecisiou. of the various sections of the State A-ts. Before the work is coinieteui, partment to date seem to have satisfied them- alrenumber of Acts will he consolidated. selves that everything necessary was done and] a numuher of obsgolete Acts rep~ealed. by reducing in status one officer. 'Mr, Lathann That work will certainly not Mi-. Wansbrough: And he was a petty he finished in your time, nor in mine either. clerk. [ASS E11BLY.]

Mir. HAWIKE: That is so. There is a or onl part-time employment wvould now be stronlg feeling that this mnatter should be enjoying permanent jobs in the depart- inquired into more deeply, 011d the opinion murat. I trust 'Something definlite w1ill 4re is held that there are other officers holding done lo deal with this matter. There is mluch higher Positions inl the department one other question L will deal with and, wvho should shoulder some of the respon- rnuch as I regret having to do so. I feel sibjlitvy. As is so often the case, there seemed so strongly about it that thle facts should to be a tendency to pick out some htarmfless be placed onl record in the pages of' "1Han- inidividual well downr the ladder, and make sa rd. A deputation from Northiani cattie himi a scapegoat. 1 trust some more search- to ame last week and asked mec to take themi inga examinnatioin will he instituted, Parti- to see tile Secretary of thle Premuier's lDe- culairly regairding the looseness of adiminis - pai'tireit, M1r. Shapcott, in order to dis- tration that prnnittedl this sort of, russ certaili mnatterts that aughlt arise during tiring to -oiitiiiue undetected for- so long. Tine thle visit to Northami of 11.13.1 thle flake of vesponsilrilitv should he sheeted home to in- Gloucester. We were unable to see Mr. dlividuals other than the one kb'eadv pun- Shapcott, but We miet his deputy, -.%r. Stit- ished.L Then, again, the question of over- fold. The deputation asked for- ritim time in the Railway 1)epartment has de- assurances, and those asurances were given- %-eloped seriously, particularly since thie ad- The deputation -ainc tfrom Northamn be- ministration of the Transport Boaird c-oin- cansze they knew certain in luences were, mcnced. The business of the Railway De - operating for a psirpose that would achieve pa rtment has grown and the deparitmient a certainl result uinfavouruble to Nor- has attempted to Carry on with thre samel tham. So they felt that the best thing- staff as formerly. As a result, no one lotrs to 11o ill been given any satisfaction. People who thre circumstances was to formerly received their goods by road were come down and discuss the matter freel~y suddenly forced to depend upon01 the rail- and frankly wPith those in chlarge of thle wars for service, but apparently thle railway arrangements. NVe received certain aut horities made no preparation to deal with assurances, and when presently [. read this. the additional trallic, and miany people in thle letter, memibers will get a bet tei! grasp of countr "y districts have been compelled to wait wthat I am dr-iving at. This letter was for Tong periods before being able to secure .sent by Mr. Shapeott to the secretary of' tile goods consigned to themt from Perth. A the WVest Australian Turf Cu, Perth. The definite responsibility has been placed upon )inatter iii dispute is that of the entertain- the management of the Railway Department ment of thle D uke at Northam and York onl to handle this 1)robletn much more the Stir October. PersonallyV, I aima not in. the expeditiously, than they hav-e dealt with it least concerned about the form of enter- so tar. They should have been prepared tainmnent, or whether a race meeting is held for the increased trallic available for the -it Northami or at York railwams. No doubt e~conomny has been -Mr. lIathain: WVeshall see that y-ou get uppermost in the minds of the authorities, anr invitation for York. and those inl chargeaeaniu to show Mr. IIAWKE: I1thank the lion. mnember., tire hest possible financial results. Aln This is the letter from Mr. Shapcott. dated addition to achieving those results, some die- 15!8/314, anid addressed to the secretary of ternmined elfoit should be made to provide thme NVA. Tur't Club, Perth. It reads ats thre clients of our railwavs1 with tile best follows:- fid most proiript wervice possile. That is Dear Sir.-Smould a retuntry race nveeting the only thing that will restore the popu- be arranged il honour of the visit of Itir laritv of the railways. The people who arc Royal Higbness, tile fluke of Gloucester, to at York and N4 orthamm onl 8th of October, it iq5 torceci to support that system should desirable that such race meeting should be least be given Up-to-date service. The over- hlcd ini York, where His Royal Highness will time that has been wrorked in recent wveeks have rimore tizze to attend a rate metCillM.- has been so excessive as to have become Faithful]y y ours, L. E. Sliapcott, D~irector- of Roya.l Tour, 1934. something in the nature of a scandal. If proper preparations had been made for the Trhat letter was perused by the -Mayor of additional traffic that should have been an- Northam, who was a member of tile depu- ticipated, niny aren who are out of work tation. ammd hr -Mr. A. If. Jo~hn, who was; [21 AuGuST, 1934.] 223

-also a member. InI reply to that, tliey action ais beiiig notiig less thn aii iiisolr to wrote rue as follows under date 20/8/34. ourselves and] to thev mniiipalit., and li-vol1b of Nort hamii. Dear Sir, -Having had file opportunity of perusing a cop'y of the letter sent by Mr. As I said before, I anot not interested and .$hapc-ott to the W.A. Turf (:lub connit tee, in, I have no feeling ina regard to where atny which be urged the claims of York Raving SJlb to have a race meeting on October S, we [unction should be held, but I am very much wish to register a strong protest at such concerned. .ard I feel Very stronglY [liat action aind express on? deep> disgust at thlie whlen we took the p)recaution to get certa in improper tactics employed by Mr. Slialwiort. assurances because we feared certain influ- You w~ill remiemnber- we accomnip ied you as a deputation to M.kr. Stitfold onl Tuesday, Aug- ences. andi whoa we were assured that each ust 7. In View of certain influences thiat were apllivi-iti wsould go0 bere tile W.A.T.C. operatilug to deprive the Nortia in Club of tilie wi-h out thle slighlile.t influence or inter- righit to rate onl October 8, anid e-ven depiri ve enee(C Air Shape~li)ot t or any~ othieri it of any fair consideratioii in that regairdl we asked MrI. Stitfold for the following assur- (;ovenmieint official, and when in face anvies: (1) That the INortiai and York clubs of that 311r. Sliapeott w-rites aI letter be allowed to go before the W.A. Turf Club urging- the claimis of York aind murdering -conmmittee without anyv i uflue nrc train Mr. Shapcott, or any other personi offiiziliv assi the eliianes or Northam, I ny Shvfiewhole elated with the Duke of Ghori-ester Xi visit, lii P disgusts lie, and I ant, onlyv sorry being exertcised in faivou r of either c-lub;, (2) that annth iran- of thle k~intl shul d happen That the suggestion to hold ar race iixeetiiig ait in Western Australia, especially as I.t in- Northamn as included in the Due' pro- gramime for Nortlin, be ofliciall enldorsed volve., the State's leading public se rvant. by Mr. Shjapeot t, the same as had been done Ihave written r.Shnpcott, anrl spoken by hint in the case of York's programme. to him per telephone, and if he wrould 'vislh ,\r. Stitfold willingly gave those assurances. me to tell h iii to his face trhat I have When MNx. Shn "ott accidentally or other- 'Vise enitSered thle rooin, where the depiutat ion told himi in the letter, andi whalt I have was being held, we asked liui for nssurnances spoken here this evening, I should ho only- Oii the Sname poinits. l-ie also gav~e tilie assnl too pleased to do it if lie %tould make an ances, in what iinibessed uis as being a sincere appointnment with me. Now I think I hav'e and honest manner. We then gave Mr. Stit- spokeii sufficiently long to gaini the adjourn- fold and 11r. Sun pcott the following assur ient for those other membhers who desire, a aces: (1) Thiait we would forward to thieim next day :na ollicial aiid compi~lete suggested to speak. progi-ani "'c for Northain for Oc-tober 8; (2) Mr. Thorn :There is n limit. You mar That thle W. A. Turf Club would nieet oin Tues- go on. day, Ausint 14, anrd would then decide be- M1r. HJAWKE :There may' be no limit, tween the applications for permission to race as but I have covered the ground I w'islhed to seatS in bv York ad111Northani i-Hubs; (3) That Northanm wonuId lova li abide by tile Turf cover, although I have not elaborated all Clob's dcIcision, pray dl it "-as arrived at lie points ats in other ci rcumistances I wyithou t any influe-nce or pressaire from r.. might have done. I have placed before Shapeott or other Goverinment olfficialI. Those the House certain things which I believe three assuranIces were nccepted. In view of the foregoing you may well imagine our feel- canl be carried out without expense to the ings wheni we learned that 11r. Sliapcott hadl State or to thle ttixpuyis, and I feel sure wilfully and iii writing acted in such a way the Goverrnment during this anti the next as to mke it impossible for Northani 's appli- session will carry on very' effective work, cation to receive aow consideration at all. for Mr. Shapeott to suggest, as justification leg islativelyv and admninistratively, and that for- his action, that he was asked for guid- in the next Parliament "e shall all meet alice, is too shallow to carry any conviction. here tog'Lether again and look forward to His suggestion that he wrote the letter I'e- enijoyiing a term of a four-year Parliament. cause he Wainted rlnality is falsified by the fact that hie accepted on r arssuranlce tinir the niatter would be final ised oin Ausgust 14. in MR. SLEEMAN (Fi-emantle) [10.81: 1 ayiir ase. in view of his pledged word to uIS, was aroused by the remarks of the member 11r. Shapeot t could havye urged the Turf Clubt] for- Nedlands (Hon. X. Keenan) the other to final ise the miatt er iruinediatel'- wvithiout using the w-hole of his official iiifluence for c-venilg He seemed offended because there. the purpose of denying Northain a fair hieuar- wvas not ain y more in the Governor's Speech ing. That aI man holdinig Mfr. Shapeott 's high than there is. It is about the tenth speech position should wilfully and without anfy ex- of this kind I havre heard], including some case break lis pledgedi word to a deputation is a happening thlit miunt astound thle people whien the memnber for Nedlands was in the of Western Australia. We canl aveeolt his Minitr-, and I have never yet seeni much 224 224[ASSEMBLY.]

in the Governor's Speech. I only look onl all grades of mcei, irreslpeetive of their it as a frill for the social day of the year, previous occupations. It is not of much the opening of Parliament. However, in use to send a watchmaker to the country my opinion the time has arrived whent we as anl A class nlan to undertake pick and should have an alteration in the opening shovel or other laborious work. The mien ceremony-. Under the existing system wve should be g-raded so that the watchmaker assemble here and await the arrival of the and the tailor will not be put to the same chap with the black stick, who orders us to work as those meni who are accustomed to go up to another place forthwith. Al- utse a pick and shovel. Some weeks ago [ though it is an old and long-established ens- was one of at party~ who went to Yarloop toin of the Parliaments of the British Em- to inspiect the. drains there, arid one of the pire to open iii the Upper House, I think first men I fsaw in the drain was an acquain- it is time we should make a move and see tance who had been a boot salesman ever to it that Parliament is opened in the place since I had been in the metropolitan area. where the business of the session is done. To mny knowledge, hie had been selling boots ,1r. Latlim: And invite the King's re- for the last 22 years, which was the presentative down here. hardest work hie had done in all that time, M1r. SLE EMAN: I do not care. We must and yet lie was engaged on work in a drain. have a Governor, and he has to open Par- Much to my astonishment, hie was holding lianient, and the proper place for the cere- his owu with the lien who had been follow- monly is in the Assembly. ing that class of work for many years. Ur. Latbami: Do you remember that the still, it is not right to send all classes of members of the House of Commlonls once men to that kind of work. I hope some- threatened a King that if he came into thing will be done to secure a better grad- their House they would behead him? ing of the men in future. I suggest also that Mr. SLEEMTNAN: 'We are not likely to next winter the men should not be kept behead anyone here. In any case the holder working in the drains up to their of the position is a fine old gentleman, arid waists, in water. The Government have ex- I would rather see him in that position perienced difficulty in finding work to keep) than anl imported Governor. At the samne the iuan en])lo ved, but in futur-e T should time, if we are to have an opening of Par- like to see the men engaged on other work liament by the Governor, let him come to during the winter months. this Chamber, and, if necessary, members The Minister for Employment: Eight of the Legislative Council could comle down hundred were shifted this year. here. Mr. SLEEMNATN: Quite a lot were work- Mr. Thorn: You believe inl refonnY11 ing in water at Yarloop a few weeks ago, Mr. SLEEMAN: That is not a very dras- and there was quite a lot of sickness amongst tie reform, but it is a necessary one. The the men, apart from injuries, resulting in mnost important subject dealt with inl the claims under the Workers' Compensation ISpeech is that of unemployment. The Gov- Act. The men told us that if we stayed over erment have dour- quite a lot, and there night, we would think we were in Wooroloo, has been aa imp~rovemnlt ill the position, owing to the coughs and colds prevailing notwithstanding the statement by members amongst the workers. I know that the Goy- of the Opposition that there has been no eminment were hard pressed to find work imiprovement. for the unemployed, hut I hope that road %fr.Latham: We did not say there had jobs and railway work wvill be kept for the been no improvement. We pointed out how winter and that the drain work will be done the improvement had been effected. in the warmer months of the year. Another Mr. SLEEMAN: The member for Nel- suggestion is that, in order to keep a large son stated to-night that there had been no number of men at work, we should under- improvement. I maintain that there has take a housinig scheme, which is very neces- been improvement, though not as much as sary. I would like to see. We are still a long Mr. Lathamn: A scheme of building chleap way from the corner. I wish to make one houses. or two suggestions to the Government in Mr. SLEEMAN: Yes. I notice that Mr. connection with unemployment. It has been Boas, of the Economic Council, suggested the practie to send away to country jobs building houses costing £400. While it [21 AUGUST, 1934.]12 225

would be very pleasant to many popIle to concrete front local cement and, with the aid ow n a house of that value, it is too high. of our jarrab and other timbers, it should Mr. Lathanm: Better keep it away from hie possible to erect a substantial structure. the Economic Council. The existing bridge at North Fremantle is Mr. SLEEMAN: The people I have in niot only a disgrace to the community; it mnind are men uinder relicf schemes and sits- is also a danger. tenance workers, and they could not find the Mr. Cross: What about the Cannin amiount required to secure a £400 house un- Bridge ? less they were in permanent work. A suit- Mr. SLEEMAN: The day is not far dis- able cottage could be built for half of £E400. tant when there will be an accident, T and l'e houses built by the trustees, of the peoplet will say, "I told you so." The exist- MeNess Fund are satisfactory and I do niot ing structure is nto orniament. I am satis- think they cost more than £E200. fied thiat it is dangerous, because I havo Mr. Thorn: Would you build themi in a spoken to men xvho were employed onl the separate area- reconditioning work and because I have Mr. SLEEMANX: No, I would build themn been untder the bridge when vehicles were anywiihere and everywhere. A nuimber of crossing it. When a horse and cart were houses were built some time ago and were a crossing, the vibration could he distinctly godsend to the peop~le who secured them, felt, If a hiorse and cart cause vibration, but we could improve a little on themn. Those how can we expect the bridge to hold up houses were built for about £70, the unem- much longcer? Mloved being, required to do the building Mr. Ferguson: Was it not the same 20 themselves. Under a housing- scheme, I con- years ago? sider that we could do a little better, but I Mr. SLEEMANr: No, and it is get- hope the Government will not consider build- tingc worse every year. The same thing ing- houses at a cost of £400 for sustenance was said about tite railway bridge. It had or relief workers. A sum of £200 would been inl the samne condition for twenty years, provide a suitable home for a start, and, but we woke up one morning and found it by limiting the cost, the funds available gone. People said it was not the bridge hut could be made to go further. Quite a lot the approaches which broke down. It the of people in my district started with homes approaches had niot gone the bridge would of less value, but have added one or two have gone, but thme approaches happened va roomis and now have nice hiomes. If the be the weakest part of it. So mnuch timber Government could see their way to proceed hadl been driven into the structure that with the scheme with houses costing £C200, somethimig had to go. The fairway wa , many people in the metropolitan area would blocked with timber. The approach hiap- be pleased at the opportunity to secure perted to be weaker thatn the bridge, mid homies, while the work entailed would pro- so the approaches wvent. I hope somctbimtg vide employment for carpenters, brick- will be done by the Government concerning layers, brickmakers, timber workers and a new structure, It would provide work other suppliers of material. That would obviate the need for sending many men to for various trades, and callings and would keep many people employed. They could the bush. then live ott in their homes in the metro- The Minister for Employment: The Gov- politan area, which would be 'Preferable to ernment have agreed to the appointment of a board to report on a housing scheme. sending them away to the country. Mr. Molouevy: Has there been an uinder- Mr. SLEEMAN:, I am pleased to hear that. There is another scheme that would water survey?~ provide work for a lot of men and 'would Mr. SLEEMAN: There have been two or he quite as. g-ood as much of the work now three. If onie speaks to the officers privately beingl done, though no doubt it is all valu- one is told that tlte under-water survey was able and will prove useful. I refer to the not too satisfactory, but if the matter is dis- buil ding of a bridge across the Swant River cussed departmentally one is told that things at North Fremantle, That would enable are not so bad. That is the departmental many men to be employed locally. I do not style. At all events the bridge is niot safe, consider it necessary to have a steel bridge. and is not ait ornament. The member for By supportiur local industry. wve could make Canning- ('Mr. Cross) said just now, "What 226 [ASSEMBLY.] about the Cauning- bridge?"' I think that ii -)It. SLEEMAN : I suggest tile lion. mnew- safe enough, but it requires to be widened. her should argue that with thie imemaber for I pass over it very frequently, as does als'o GUiildtord-M1ida nil. There is not as much the Minister for Works. It is not right to ii' the scheme as th1 e hion. meimeber makes out. have a bridge of that width wvhen so much Mr . 11. Smith: I was metermizu: to the traffic is travelli hg over it. When twoe m.. in'tection of the lion. inienber. tors are passing each other it is very dishi- Mr. SL~EMIAN :Whether or not we ard3 vilt for a jiedeit an who is onl the bridg'! stlj i o~ed to he emindes of the fa rifl's I at the saime time to get out of thle way. contend that the scheme will throw a lot Vehicles often meet onl the bridge, and I on t of work. a in afraid that one of thlese da ' s there will 1Mi.TI'horn: You aire oinly trying to stick he a catast Iojhe beca use tile pasagew way 'mp for the inniI Irs. is too narrow to enable people to stand fiuite Air. SI EEMA N I ouit opp1 osed to seine- clear of the passing vehicles,. I believe that limng, that I think will anct uletrimoceilali- for when the new road was biiit it was iitteileI most ofl time people iii the State. Ii thme to he used] tin take all Wtil heav v tralie alo, is .scemie is going to be of benefit to the State, the South side of tile river, ando relieve the let uts have it, but ainy view is that it wvill congestion onl Stir1 ingq Itighwav. file road. mav~e the opposite effect. 11~memblers havo. however, cannot serve that purpilose unlhess kept their eyes open they wvill imave realised the Canning- Bridge is widened. A lot has what a disalt failure it has been elsewhere. been said about hulk handlinjg. TIwo oe If nmeibhes opjposite viewed the matter three ilnembeis Opposite, who climi to repic fairlyv a iid impartially, and wvere free to sent the farmers, have had a great del to express their opinions without fear, of in- say onl the subject. One member said it 'ul ti ng their electors, they would agreve with would not throw miany people out of ivor< Inc. As a matter of fact, that is just what it wvii! Tine P'reinier: Thle Wheattgrowvers' IUnion do. is with you. 1Mr. Lathai : It may throw out a few. MrIt. SLEEMAN: I would sayv that the 'Mr. SLEEM',\AN: One member said the pick of tihe fniinlers belong to that uniuon, ,scheme would throw out of emiplo'vmleiit a lbecause the pick of any i nd ustry belonigs to handful of Inne i)Cnl Fremiantle. I coin- the union concerned. If the Wheatgr-owers' tenld it will throw out of work a large uni- Union is with tile. I am more than satisfied hler of men in thle eontdry districts, thos that I amn on the right track. who are enigaged in handling wheat at sid- Mr. Lathami: You oughbt to be satisfied to ings, sewing bags, and carrying out other have the pick of the mielt iii the unionis. with- multifarious ditties associated with farming. cut trying to force others in. The Scheme wvill not be of much benefit to Mr. SLEEMAN: Evidently theY have the farmers either. come to the conclusion that thir represen- Mr. Latham: Boys onl thne farms. will l.- tatives in Parliament aire not doing their en~aled to go to school du ring tile harvest. job), and that they must org-anise themselves in order to get a fair- dleal. If they' wouldl MrIt. Ferguson: You do not suggest that look into the niatter members opposite. is the responsibility of thle wheat farmers, would see that bul1k hianding is not what it do you? is said to be. 'Mr. Thomson of the Westra- Mri. SLEEMAN Any.) industr tlInt lion Farmers has come out ats a chain ponl adopts labour saviiig- devices, and( throws (-"i of the scheme, anmd talik., a bout the way' the seraphli hundreds ot IhousandsW wheat is damaged in bags. He is as good workers, must carry sonic of the resjponii- as a circus. He now claims that b)ulk liand]- hi it v for those who are affected by them. ling is the right thing for Western Austea- The tine is cotming iii W eeii Mistral;a lIja. Sone icttle azo I chew attention to th-! wvhen tile gold mininmu in dust ry must foot mnunr in which wheat was being left out tile hill for those who are CrippledI, muaimel. in the weather on the wharves at Fremantle. broken in health a nd confined to hiospital. I tried to show my friendliness to the farm- Mr. J. H. Smith: Canl von combatI the ems. and inldicated tihat wheat to the extent statement of thImmember for: C. iid foid-*Mi of thousands of pounds in value was be- flnd when lie said the scheme was of: great ing- destroyed. Mr. Thomson's firm camne along- beniefit to the farmiers? ain 'I sid that it was nq such thin. They [21 Avcrar, 3934] tl:Iiltksthait i t Was ilti)JOS*.il1ltO dIILiaCf' ex)osmd to such a ris;k. If we continue as wh-Ieat if it wvere kept in hags, and that -when we have beet, doing during the past 12' thle haTS got damp aill that lappenetl was months, thle reputation of WVestern Austra- that a small filmn was created onl the insidp lian wheat will be ruined. I hope the G;ov- of the bag. He said that it was thle propeli ernment will see Oit the lpresent stare of wax- to hundle wheat, and that it could no' things is altered. Something should be done he ilaina -er. Indeed, one or OFtheads of to p~revecnt wheat being shipped from thi, thle W'Straial[ a %raterN valve up1 to thle State unless accompanied by an oiiial cer- Houwe and asked mip what I wa5s iakin? titicate. , ueli a fuss about. He '-aid the trouble wit Mr. Ferguison : The buyer does not want that there wit' not enouwhi moisture in W~e.,- a eci-tifleate. tern Australian wheat. They also said that Mr. SLEEMAN: What buyer does not if I had not drawn attention to thle fact of want it?" 'rite Pool does not want it. bags being there with whiskers oil them Mr. FergUson : Any buye- can g et thle about fifteen incetes long tihey would have certificate if bie wants it. startedl hifting, them next day. M1r. SLEEMA-N: Tue Minister sitated that Ifr. Lathanm: Did Mr. Thomslon tell you] only 34 per cent, of thle wheat leaving, this Mbat ? State was certificated. M r. S LEMIA.\: N'O: one of the firm. 11r. lDoner : Because certificate;. are not 'M[r. Lathanm: One of the wharf luipers wanted. Mr. SLEEMAN: The Government should Mrl. SLEEMIfANK: No. A member of Mr. unle s Thomson's firm. If the bon. mnember wanlts see that no wheat leaves this State certificated. Are the interests of the farmers to know who it was, let him ask the inember for Guildford--Midland (Hon. IV. D. John- protected if wheat is shipped in ainy sort of condition? The effect must be to rulin son), who was there at the time. That memi- wheat. Thle her of Mr. Thomson's firmn told mie that the thle namne of Western Australian Government should step in and prevenit any trouble in this, country was that enough wheat in bad condition beig shipped. I. moisture (lid not get into the wheat, and Thoms-.on Further said- that wheat could not be destroyed in bags. Now Mr. Thomson conies along and( says to The Goveranment had refused to grant certificates ini respect of conisiderable quainti- us, "Look at thle damage being done to wheat ties of bagged wheat, arid the owners of this in lbags." As, a matter of fact, I invited ''condened'' or "rejected'' wheat had down to Fremnantle a former Ministeri t for either disposed of it locally, or included it in Works, Mr. Lindsay-, and the member for other shipmuents for which no Govertn ient certificate was required. Avon (Mr. Oritfiths), and the late Mr. Harry Brown: and when they saw what was There is an admission that thev Government goiing onl they adnitted that I had not exag- liad refused to grant a certificate. But gerated at all. but had understated the case. wheat condemunled ha0Sbeen brought back I said the wheat was being left uncovered amid shipped tinder cover of night. Thie all around the place. The fact, though I same thing is being. clone in connection with atm- sorry to sa 'y it, was that every mer- bulk wheat -as was done in connection with chant's stack was covered. The merchiants, baggedl wheat. Trucks are condemned and looked after their wheat, but the others left then aire biought back and put into a shill their wiheat out in tile open. The saime thing in thle daorkness of night. 'In reply to a ques:- is g-oing on to-day. These people cannot tion of mine tile Minister for Agrictulture have the argument both ways: either they said there was ito cheek. It is time we had were wrong then or they are wrong now. a cecek. Otherwise thle wlteatgrowers of Let me pick out a few of 'Mr. Thomson's Western Australia tire likely to be ruined. remarks. Here is one-- I repeat, it is uip to the Government to see When wheat muerelrauts were dealing with that the wheat does not leave our shores in lbagged wheat acquired by themselves, they bad condition. Here is another of Mr. were, as in thle past, the sole judges as to Thomson's statements- whether the wheat should he shipped abroad. Following these inspections tile amerehants That is where I start myv argument. I say had rejecteui, or as tie Mliuister put it 1' oa- these people have no right to be the sole arbi- denied, ' a few trucks of bulk WheaLt; antd there was no doubt that there would hav-e ters as to tie wheat to be shipped. Thle lbeen rejections for sililar reasons if bugged name of this~ State is too important to be wheat had beet tendered. 228 [ASSEMBLY.]

Right through the piece we are told thatl Mr. Ferguson: Was the wheat re-con- damiage is being done to bagged wheat. For- ditioned before it "-as put back in the merly we were told that there was only that trucks after being condemned. thin scum. Again Mr. Thomson says- Mr. St 2EEMAN: No. Somec of the wheat Is it suggested that '-andernned wheat has that was reconditioned was condemned. been shipped in a elandestine manner? I have Some truck loads camne from Leighton, and not been able to trace a single instance where they were rejected. Of one rake of trucks tlhis was done, n or indireed would it be from Leighton more than possible, as all Tmerchlants oil rejecting the halff were con- wheat take th~e trcnic fumiber, so that it would] .dermned, and that is where the officials of the be impossible to slip in the samn-e trucks with. Pool themselves stand condemned. Wheat on t t he knowledge of the shipper. taken from Leighton is supposed to be recon- Mr. Thomson may be able to fool some peo- ditioned. There may be sonic excuse for damaged wheat being received in trucks fil, but certainly he cannot fool the people in Fremantle who know what is going on1. from the country, hut there can be no ex- Trucks are brought down and rejected atid cuse for bagged wheat from Leighton being taken away, and then broughlt back, though in anl unsatisfactory condil ion. There is not to the same ship, but put into the Pool's another phase of the bull hkiandling busi- own ship, where there is no one to cheek niess respecting, which the farmers do not these things. get a fair deal. I refer to the loss of weight in bulk wvheat. On a shipment of 8,000 Mr. Latham: There has been no dockage tons of bagged wheat, the increase in oversell for that. weight is estimated at 80 tons, or one per .%fr. SLEEMAN: If the Leader of the cent. Opposition refuses to take an interest in the Mr. Ferguson : W~ho furnished that condition in which wheat leaves this coun- estimate? tiwv Mr. SLEEMAN: That is myv estimate. Mr. Latham: The dockages wvere for light On the other hand, onl every shiipmient of whlea t. 8,000 tons of bulk wheat there is a loss of Mr. SLEEMAN: It is said that a few wueight representing 80 tons, or again one trucks have been condemned. In reply' to a per cent. question of inine it was stated here that 270 Mr. Lathami: What becomes of it? trucks had been condemned since January. Mr. SLEEMAN: With regard to bagged Mr. Seward: Out of how many? "heat, the extra weight is caused by the Mr. SLEEMAN: I dlid not ask for that added moisture, but with bulk wheat the information. The lion. member interjecting experts as yet have been unable satisfac- can ask for it to-morrow. tory to explain w-here the loss of weight Mr. Seward: Out of 140,000 tons. comes in. The mnember for Irwin-Moore Mr. SLEEM1AN: July rejects were:- (Mr. Ferguson) may laugh, but the weights 3rd July one truck, 4th 10 trucks, .3th three al-c checked at the weighbridges at Fre- mantle, and in Japan the weights are trucks, 10th nine trucks, 11th four trucks, 12th three trucks, lath four trucks, 14th checked again in anl endeavour to arrive eight trucks, 16th eight trucks, 17th four at a conclusion regarding the loss of trucks, 18th three trucks, 19th six trucks, weight. The Leader of the Opposition 23rd three trucks, 25ith eight trucks. fluringr may be more clever than the experts, but part of July', therefore, 74 trucks were con- to date the latter have not been able to de- demned: and July was far from being the cide the question. Mr. Liatham: I do not pit myself against worst month of the year. you as an expert. Mr. Latham: Were all those trucks bulk Mi-. SLEEMAN: The Japanese are vol-v wheat ? shrewd business meii, and they want to know Mr. Sr4EEMAN: Every one. what become., of the 80 tons. They have had Mr. Lathami: Did you find out how many their experts checking the weights here and bags were rejected during the same period ? also in Japan, but they cannot determine 'Mr. SLEE2IAN : No. Very little bagged the question. That is another phaqe to be wheat has been shipped this year. Those conisideied on behalf of the poor- struggling details show that 74 trucks of wheat were farmer. The member for Toodyny, (Mr. condemned during part of July only. Thorn) said he was suspieiolw regarding- my [21 AUGUST, 1934.] 229P attitude towards bulk handling and sug- Fremnantle zone, and all papers dealing with g ed( that I was behind the attempt to pre- the arrangements and proposals to date be- tweet, the Governmient. Rtailway Department, %ent it. That is a compliment to me. If Harbour Trust, ('0-operative \Wheat Pool and I could be responsible for holding up the wheat firms for the bulk handling. of wheat bulk handling of wheat, I would accomplish in the State! it to-morrow. As a matter of fact, the '[le minister for Mid!way., fiurnished the Government realised that they could not go following reply- onl with the system as it obitin., to-day in its Charlie-Chaplin-nereano condition. As many of the inatters involved in these papers arc the subject of correspiondence and Mr. Latham: The Goverunment are not in,- are still under eojisideration liv the Covern- terested in the maitter, whereas the farmers mnit, it would In- in advisanble for thenm to be are. inade av-ailable at this stange. Mr. SLEEMAN: Thle G4overnment have If thle pa per., had been tabled, we would 'A duty to the farmers to see that thle wheat then nave seen where the politic.al influence is shipped away in a proper condition. Tf cattle in anad howv the sites were g-ranted at they allowed the wheat to be shipped away nail sa v sidi ligs in the count '-vareas. otherwise, the Leader of the. Opposition Air. Eathain: The sites were g-ranted by would be the first to condemn the G;overn- the previous Government. moent for lack of supenvision. .\rt. SLEEMAN : Of course they were. Mr. Latham: I suggest that the fairmer.s MrIt. La tham : And if 'we were in power to- hie left to manage their own buIsiness in ilay, the- woul againi be grranuted tile sit c. their own way. Mr. SLEEMAX: That shows where the Mr. SLEEMAN: If the Leader of the Political influence entered into it. The OoN- Opposition believes so much in the bulk erment of the day dlid something thev had handing system, wihy did he lnt have a Bill no right to do. On the eve of an ec, passed by Parliament when lie 'vas a Mi n- tion. the - ordered the Commissioner of Rail- ister, seeing that the Government with which Ava *A-to giant the s~ites, and the Government he was associated had a majority in both had no right to dn tin t. It mleans that oil branches of the Legislature? As a matter of the eve of the election, they' iec-ideci to make fact, thtev could not agree onl the subject at sure thaqt the sites were made available, all. One section wanted the Charlie Chap- whatever happened to the Government lin system and the oither wanted a Gilbert afterwiards. Hodl the papers been tabled and Suillivan type. wvhen T as~ked for them, the Leader of the Mrfj. La tham:i You remember there wag the Opposition wvould not have go much to say monopoly clause. about it now. M r. SLEEMAN: One section walntedl the Air. Latharn: Von can have the papers to monopoly' and the other section would not disclose anything about my connection with have the monopoly at all, but wanted cone- the matter or that of the then Government thing else. eit her. The Minister for Works: At any rate, tine Mr. SLEEMAN: You admitted that thle Labour Party included more farmers than Coen n dlid it. the then Government did and they delivered Mr. rereuson: T denyv it absolutely. It is more wheat into the Pool. not true that the previous floverninent or- Mr. Latharn: That is not so. d-red the Commissioner of Railwvays to The -Minister for Works,: Of course we trint the sites. did. The -Minister for Works: Perhaps not in Mr. SLEEMAN: If the Leader of the writing, butt you did it- Opposnitionj sug-ests that the farmers should Mr. Latbam: No. T will move for the he allowed to manage their own affairs. wvhy Ppers5. did not they' push through a Bill to enalble Mr. SLEMAN: Tf bulk handling is to then to do so? The fact is that the farmers be adopted. let us he satisfied that it will themselves could not agree. On the 7th he of benefit to the State as a whole, and September, 1933, 1 asked the then M.Ninister (liat it wVill bear some of the cost incurred for Railway's the following question- through the displacement of people in the Does be intend to table all the papers re- industr. The gold mining industry should lating to the bulk handling of wheat in the be dealt with in the same way. 2:30 [ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. Lathamn: Then let uts start on the atenihler could persuade the Prime _Minis- mninlg industr . ter to accept that obligation onl behalf of _Nr.- SLEE3[AN: If.1,000 teen are ds the Commoonwealth. However, at present placed front the industry, then the system the Child Welfare Department is using the that displacees them should be made to pay invalid pension of the father to assist in toward. the upkeep of those who are forced the nmainteniance of the children, in conse- out of work. It the bulk handling system (Iticilce of which the invalid pensioner gets is to be of service to the State, then the only 8s. 5d. a week, the same ats the other htours of those who work in connection units of the famuily' . I hope that in future wvith it should be reduced. that invalid pension will be regarded as Mr. Latham:t And also the hours of those sacrosanct, and will not lie touched for any who wvork to produce the wheat. ot her purp~ose that, the trea tmen t of the Mr. SLI3EMAN: 1. have no complaint to invalid pensioner. Coming to the question ake- onl that score. I believe the farmer of motor traff;c i have long advocated that is entitled toi have his hoturs of work cur- no motor, vehicle should be allowed on the tailed just as every'one else in industry road unless the owner has taken out third .should have that right. As a matter of party' risk insurance. filct, that has to come before long,' a re- Mr. Inti n:I will Agree with you in dunction of hour., to make up for the lab- that. otir-saving appliances comning in. A per- Mr. SLERIUAN: Because of myt%advocacy, nielius sys tern has grown iin io the Child I have been told I did not want gany but rich Welfare Department in arriving at the item to h ave mnotors-, inen who coul d afford amount parable to the imitt, of a1 family. to covet' third parity- risks. I claim that af The present Government airc not lespon- poor- liit cannot afford to have at motor sille for it, for it has been growing tip for car unless lie has the third pa rt 'v risks cov- .some sears and going from bad to worse. ered. Without sercf precautions, in the ceet 31 r-. Lathain: It lias been worse lately. of an accident hie mieght lose even his home. Mr. SLEEMAN: No, it has not been Mr. Thorn : Speaking of the p)oor mail1, worse lately, and 1 expect to see it in. dloes the lion. membnler know one wvlo has prove. Thle departmient takes into con- ins4ured against third party risk? sideration the pensions in a family that Mr. SLEEMAN': Yes, under a compre- has applied for relief. If there be four henisive policy'. [in New Zealand, one can chlId ren] in the famiily. and the father is in take out eover for the third party risk only. receipt of a itialid pension, the depart- There the Traffic Department make the igent rule that the pension has to be spread motorist pay £1 with the license fee, .1uil over the children, and the applicant is then that covers luau, for third party risks alone. told that echcl unit of the family is getting TI'hat is (lone through the Traffic Depa rt- so much. We do not stand for that. Mr. mnt, at 0 overnmtent. institution. I rel 'eat L-onis and Mr. Heasley, and I suppose the that no maul shouild be allowed on the road DouglA~ credit people also, arc priomisinug with a motor vehicle unless hie has third to improve the pensions. Certainly I~s. part 'y risks covered. Too often we see that (id. iP not sufficient for an invalidI pension- a [Ilan has been) killed, leaving- behind a finm- er. I ani satisfied that if Mir. Scullin is ilY unlsulpported. rel aimed lie will incr!ease the pension to Mr. Latham: By pooling that pound aiad 91 pe week. But what is the use of the drawing on the funid, the New Zealand Traf- Comiionwealthi Government providing an fic Department covers the risk. With the invalid pension if the State is going to insurance comipanies here it would cost £6 ut.e some of it to pa for the children who or £7. should lie helped by the State? Under the Mr. SLEEMAN : It covers only the third existing system, a man with an invali4 party risk. I suggest that our Traffic De- lnsion aind his wvife and four children, partmnent, or our State Insurance Depart- would he getting 8s, 5d. per unit. necat, should attend to it here. I hope the Mr. Lamnbert: The care of the children Government wvill take steps in that diree- should be gin obligation, not on the State, tion, in order to spare the depeadants of buti onl the Coaliion wealth. people who lose their lives in motor acci- Mr,. SLEEMAN: Still, it is an obliga- dents, :and to save also the cost to thme hiospi- tion onl the State. and I only wish the bon. talIs of i idig-ent tncut injured in motor aci- [21 AUGUST, 1034.] 23231 dents. I ant pleased to know the Gov- condemunation of the Minister and the policy, erment tire arranging for an inquiry into On the 10th February there was; a heading the price of bread. It is certainly neces- "Wageru111 dispute;" over another long state- sary. I mun not sure whether it is, the baker inent iby 'Mr. Lathamn condemning the 'Mini- or the miller at fault. I am inclined to think ister aind the policy, together with a eon- the price of flour is the main factor in ill- deinuatioln of tile statements of MrIli ezcv creasing the price ot bread. 1 k-now two Secretary of the A.W. or three hakers, who are hard pout to it to Mr. Latham: 'No, it was a repiy to a let- keep things going, but that mjay he due to ter which had appeared. bad debts. I fancy a lot depends on the Mri. HAWKE: I have already p~ointed1 price of flour-, and I hope the Government out-- will push onl with that inquiry. There i 1 Mr'. SPEAkERl: The lion. memnber m only one tither subject I. wish to touch upon, ma~ke. an explanation, hut he must not make namelyN the dock at IFremaantle. I was pleased another speech. to see that the Premier made reipreseiita- tions to the Prime Minister, and I regret Mr. HAWE: .1 merely ii~cd to point that Mr. Lyons did not see his wa ' clear to out that one of the statements is headed, assist the State in the construction of a dock. -11r. Lathams's condemnation." I have 110 W~e do nlot ascni to be fairly treated hy the desire to read it because it would take too Common wealth, and it is nio wonder that People become secessionists when such Mr. Latham : I think you ought to read treatment is meted omit to us. We are it. not given the same consideration as was 3Ir11' jHAKE: I ani prepared to do so, given to Victoria. when she secured a large but miembers can find the statement in the amount of money for the Alfred graving- hook of Press cuttings. There are two definl- dock. When Western Australia wvants a ite statements, anti no doubt mystemn dock, it is denied to her. I hope that the to-igh-t that 'Mr. Lathami condiemned thie Premlier will not allow tile matter to drop, piolicy and the Minister and the Government hut that afiter the impending Federall elec- at the timie was correct. As I am always tions, irrespective of the party returned to in the habit of making- correct statements,I powver, he will again take up the inatter with make this personal explanation. the Commonwealth Government and see if Onl motion by Mr. Seward, debate ad- somnething- cannot be done. Thme construc- jon rued. tion of at dock at Fremantle would provide a lot of work that otherwise must he lost to House adjourned at 11.3 p.m. the State.

Personal E.Iplanatfionl. Mr. HAWKE: When I spoke earlier in thle evening, I suggested thant the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Nation- alist Party, during thle dispute over the policy of the Gov-ernmnent reslpecting prefer- erenee to unionists, had condemned the Gov- ernnient, the Mlinister, and the policy. The Leader of the Opposition declared my state- ment to bie untrue and demanded its with- drawal. fIn accordance with your wish, Mr. Speaker. 1 withdrewv, although I was posi- tive at the time that my statement was cor- rect. With your permission and with the indulgence of the House, I would point out that in the "West Australian,"' of the 14th February, there was a column headed "Sus- tenance Workers. Union Membership Dis- pute," and further down "Mr. Lathani's con- demnation;' and this was followed by his