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RAJYA SABHA ______∗SYNOPSIS OF DEBATE ______(Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) ______Thursday, December 10, 2009/ Agrahayana 19, 1931 (Saka) ______

SUPPLMENTARY DEMANDS FOR GRANTS (RAILWAYS) 2009-10 THE MINISTER OF RAILWAYS (KUMARI MAMTA BANERJEE): I lay on the table, a statement (in English and Hindi) showing the Supplementary Demands for Grants (Railways) for the year 2009-10. ______

SHORT DURATION DISCUSSION Liberhan Commission Report and trial of Babri Mosque case-Contd. SHRI D. RAJA, continuing his unfinished speech dated 9.12.09, said: I would like to focus on three major issues, one, our Party's approach to the Liberhan Commission's Report and the Action Taken Report of the Government; two, certain fundamental, core issues involved and, three, what should be the way forward. Certain recommendations made by Liberhan Commission are very ridiculous. The Commission recommends that there must be a National Commission for the Review of Constitution. If one demolition takes place, it is not necessary that we should review the whole Constitution. As far as Action Taken Report is concerned, I do not see any action being taken by Government and it doesn't have serious political will as to how to act on the recommendations. The Government should concentrate on the conclusion of

______∗This Synopsis is not an authoritative record of the proceedings of the Rajya Sabha.

222 the Liberhan Commission and then initiate certain actions and expedite certain other actions which are under way. We are a democratic republic and India has progressed all these years as a nation because we have committed to the ideals of secularism and democracy. Politics and religion should remain separate. India has not chosen any religion as State religion or official religion like our neighbours, but there are some forces who try to attack this Republic by posing an agenda of theocracy and call the nation a 'Hindu Rashtra'. These are the forces which are behind the demolition of the mosque. Religion is a personal matter. It should not become a political tool and an instrument for getting electoral gains. The BJP and other organizations named in the Report said they were leading Movement, which led to the demolition of the mosque. Political morality and political honesty demand that they must accept it honestly in this august House. Conspiracy and other things are secondary issues. How they can claim that they represent the entire Hindu community? Eighty-five per cent are Hindus in this country and a large number of Hindus are secular and a large number of Muslims are also secular. Nobody should take that sole right to call themselves the sole representative of a particular religion. It is a question of spreading hatred and violence. Innocent people are being used in this struggle for power. Dalits, in large number, are not allowed to enter into many temples in the country. Are people fighting for the temple entry for Dalits? , which has been named in the Liberhan Commission Report, follow the grammar of anarchy. This must be abandoned. The core question is that they led it as a movement and they were responsible for it. It is time that they should admit it. Congress remained a mute and meek spectator. The role of the Congress Party must be equally condemned. The congress Party is also a culprit which opened the locks and allowed the shilanyas. The Congress Party must take the responsibility. My point is why cannot we think of building a hospital and a monument for communal and religious harmony and integrity of the nation. SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: In the beginning I would say that when a Commission is appointed on such a subject, the Commission is given

223 terms of references. It is the duty of the Commission to meet our expectations and such Commission should be impartial. But after going through the report of the Liberhan Commission I feel that at the time of giving its report Liberhan had put the terms and reference aside and did the work of putting his own ideas. Baba Saheb Thakrey said that if nobody takes the responsibility of demolishing the structure, I feel proud that my Shiv Sainiks had done this work. It does not mean that they have done that work but it does mean that it is a matter of pride and for it, it was necessary to go into the roots of this matter. The same was the responsibility of the Liberhan Commission. Liberhan Commission did not complete this responsibility and therefore, we have to say these things here that what was there earlier and what is there today. The Mughal emperor Babar had said to his General, Mirza Baig to construct a mosque by demolishing the Ram Mandir in . In the British days the land of Ayodhaya was divided into two parts. One was Babri and the other was Ram Chabutra. Since 1934 muslim people did not go there to offer Namaj or to celebrate festival. Liberhan Commission was extended time for 48 times. After 17 years its report is being placed before us and for this report 8 crores of people was spent and 171 people were held culprit in it. I want to know what Liberhan was doing till 17 years. On which matter he was working and what was its need. My friend Shri D. Raja had said whether any body will stand and say that he is Hindu and he has pride on it. I shall say not once but for hundred a times that I am Hindu and I have complete right for it. Liberhan never went to Ayodhaya. Where the incident had occurred. The persons, who were held responsible, were not called. He said that Moropant Pingley was the leader of . He held late Devraha Baba accused. When this incident occurred, he was not alive. In no way he has held then Prime Minister, Shri Narsimha Rao responsible. After seeing this matter I want that an inquiry of Liberhan should be made. At that time Godbole was Home Secretary and he had said that there was no conspiracy behind this incident. In the white paper of the Government on this issue it was not said that there was any conspiracy behind it. Suddenly people assembled there and after assembling of all the people this incident occurred. Liberhan Commission has not any right to say that there is a conspiracy behind it. In the end I will say that this House should pass a resolution that the entity of this country, the temple of Lord Ramchandra should be constructed in Ayodhaya itself. Only it is my expectation.

224 THE MINISTER OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT (SHRI KAPIL SIBAL), intervening in the discussion, said: The fact of the matter is that the four terms of reference which Liberhan Commission had to answer related to, what happened on the 6th of December and who was responsible for the demolition of the mosque, what was the role of the Chief Minister or the Council of Ministers, what were the deficiencies in the security measures and who was responsible for attacking the media? These were the four issues on which the Liberhan Commission has given findings. The main concern of the Commission was to investigate into what had happened in Ayodhya. According to Justice Liberhan, the political parties, the Government, the security agencies and the bureaucracy, all of them had one job and that was to destroy the . The Chief Minister of granted permission to deploy the paramilitary forces after much of the demolition had actually commenced. On 5th December, 1992, when the Home Secretary proposed to the Chief Minister to deploy 133 CFS companies to utilize for the security of the Masjid, the Chief Minister said that the State Forces would be deployed to protect the same. They all did the same in connivance. The Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh fulfilled his party's manifesto and the fact is not a national joke. This was a joint venture, and not a howler. According to the book--Ayodhya Movement- -written by Shri L.K. Advani, it was a meticulously drawn up plan and we, too, know the fact. It will take thousands of years to retain the position which was prior to the demolition of the Masjid. In respect of the occurrence in Ayodhya, it is an established truth that 1700 people were killed and during the three months starting from 6th December, 3000 people became the victim to killings in the name of religion. It was a pre-designed plan wherein a large number of Kar Sewaks were deployed. They had come with equipments and ropes required for the demolition of the Masjid. Almost 50,00,000 people had joined the job. In the beginning, Kar Sewaks drove away the people therefrom, and then assaulted the journalists and also the photographers so that no photographs of the demolition act can be taken. The Kar Sewaks went into the Garbhgriha, took the idols and the cash box to a safe place. The demolition act was done from 12.15 p.m. to 4.00 p.m. At 3.00 p.m., the communal riots erupted, but the District Magistrate came to the spot at 6.00 p.m. It was a complete failure of the entire State machinery. The demolition was not a sudden action. The CRPF men who had assembled at the Sita Rasoi, were not ordered to take action. The Kar Sewaks belonged to the Opposition, not to the Congress

225 Party, Communist Party and Left Party. Before the demolition, Shri Advani had led the Somnath Rathyatra. Several Rath Yatras were launched from 1984 to 1989. Thus, these are the findings of the Commission about which nobody challenged in the and Rajya Sabha. Thereby, it has been established that the Bharatiya Janta Party, the V.H.P., the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh, the Shiv Sena, the , and so on, had participated in the demolition act. Despite the fact that the police, the local administration, the C.R.P.F., the State Government and so on had joined each other to accomplish the demolition act, none of them came forward to express sorrow and repentance thereover. I mean to say that all of them went against the Hindu philosophy. The Opposition is actually against Hinduism and Lord Ram. If Lord Ram had been present here, He would not have campaigned any Rathyatra. He would have worked for children's education, health problems, etc. The truth comes out, this is what justice Liberhan has said that this was the political movement. This is what happened in Ayodhya on 6th December. Instead of securing the structure they were dismantling security. had said that he cannot have any Central Forces knowing fully well that he will be responsible for destroying the structure. This entire land was acquired by the U.P. Government, given to the Ram Janam Bhoomi Nyas for a consideration of one rupee. This is the finding. The acquisition was quashed by the High Court ultimately. 2.77 acres were acquired only to be given to them for building a temple. In January, 1992, they removed barriers. Nothing was done to put them back. The Chief Minister said, 'Irrespective of the fact that the State Government stays or goes, Mandir must be constructed.' Then it is said that there was no planning. you were supporting the movement. In November, 1992, the Chief Minister refused to associate with the review of the security, asserting that the State Government was competent to secure the disputed structure. They realized that they would get political benefit out of this issue. The local intelligence unit constituted of three members with eight hourly duties were deployed. There was a lack of intelligent analysis of visible facts. You are playing a joke on the people of this country. Unfortunately, this is going to be their agenda of the future as well. Witness Shamsher Singh stated that nothing was done by the Police to stop the entry of Karsevaks. On

226 1st December, the Karsevaka damaged the Mazar. Many slogans were raised in the presence of all the political leaders. Mahant Paramhans Ramchander Dass admitted having repeatedly announced through the mike to the Karsevaks that demolish the structure. It is the finding that there was a stoning of CRPF, the PAC or local police was participating in Darshan in uniform and the Chief Minister was leading till the final demolition of the domes. This incident was scripted by the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh and the leaders of the BJP along with all the leaders of the Sangh Parivar. SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: With the death of Shrimati Gandhi, her son took over as Prime Minister and another colleague of his took command of the Ayodhya matter. From then on, a series of disastrous steps followed. The opening of the locks triggered off a great deal of controversy. Within hours of passing of the order by court the temple was unlocked and even the Doordarshan cameramen were present to cover the occasion. How did the Government acquiesce in this case? If it was wrong judgement, none of you had the guts to stand up and say that it was a wrong judgement. Even the present Home Minister, the present Prime Minister, even many of the Ministers they were all there in that Government. At that time, you were calm. Suddenly, you remember now that it is a national shame. Whom are you trying to deceive in the country? This report has not support. Everybody has condemned this report. This document has no legal validity. This is full of politics, sermons, preaching and teachings without even knowing the fundamentals of politics and public life of the country. I am wondering who is the man who prepared this report. There are so many factual mistakes in the report. He does not know when the RSS was started. He does not know who was the founder of RSS. He named the founder of the RSS himself. His conclusions conflict with evidence. What was this man doing for all these years? In contrast you see the Shah Commission. Within one year and five months the entire report was prepared and then given to the Government. The Liberhan Report is a Report for the vote bank politics. The Report is full of mistakes. I can understand some small mistakes, grammatical mistakes, or, some historical mistakes here and there. But, on each and every front, there is total ignorance. Mr. Liberhan brought discredit to the Commissions of Inquiry, and, in future, nobody is going to ask for setting up of a Commission of Inquiry. This is the best service he has rendered to the country.

227 Before the Home Minister makes any submission in the House, he must first of all, explain how this leakage had taken place. From where did the copy go to the hands of the journalists and to the electronic media? The Home Minister, with all the responsibility, must come to the House and explain why and how it happened. Who is responsible for this? There was only a selective leakage, just to divert the attention from the spectrum, to divert the attention from Madhu Koda, to divert the attention from price rise and the plight of sugarcane farmers of Uttar Pradesh and other parts of the country. You could have made some submissions to this House. Instead of that, you passed it on to some selective friends in the media, and Parliament has become a mockery. This Report is defaming the highest court of the land, the Supreme Court. You defamed the Supreme Court; you defamed the former Prime Minister of the country; you defamed every institution; you defamed all the sadhus and saints in the country. Now, coming to the issue of the so-called conspiracy, which Mr. Liberhan has failed to establish. The Congress White Paper on Ayodhya says, “No conspiracy”. Then, the Home Minister, father of the present Chief Minster of Maharashtra, Mr. S. B. Chavan says that there was no conspiracy. The IB told the Supreme Court, “No conspiracy”. The CBI ruled out any conspiracy and the charge-sheet filed did not have any charge of conspiracy in it. The Bahri Tribunal, which was set up by the Government to discuss about the banning of the RSS, concluded that there is no evidence to suggest any conspiracy and quashed the ban on the RSS. The U.P. Government filed an affidavit in the Supreme Court stating that the demolition of the structure at Ayodhya was done under criminal conspiracy by any specific community or political party is wrong. The Allahabad High Court upheld the trial court order. The order was then challenged in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court did not give any adverse judgement. It refused to intervene in this matter. We do not need any certificate from these people. You are creating ill-wills in the minds of the people. There are 20 more mosques in Ayodhya. Not even one was touched. The BJP believes that the theocracies are alien to our history. India being secular is not because of a particular person or a particular Government. It is because of the blood of the people of this country. There is no discrimination on the basis of religion in this country. Some people are trying to preach and teach lessons and arouse the feelings of the people. Rama commands great respect everywhere in the world. That is why Mahatma Gandhi said Rama Rajya. You ridicule us and you say that we

228 are communal minded. Talking about Rama is communal minded? And you have people who are supporting you in your Government, who ridiculed Rama, who ridiculed Rama Setu. It is the people of India, who demolished the structure. It is the people of India belonging to all hues, the Kar Sevaks and the other people who gathered there. They all did it because the matter is getting delayed for years together and political parties are using it for political ends. Congress Party got the locks opened. We talk about not one person but about the belief of the people across the country and the world. Are we communal people? You been friendly with the Muslim League. You have alliance with people who opposed Vande Mataram. You do all these things and then just attribute in reverse to the Bharatiya Janta Party. As regards the Somnath Temple, the President of India went to do shilanyas there. Was he communal? Your leaders go there, you allow shilanyas, you send the Home Minister, your Chief Minister goes there and then, you propagate in Doordarshan on secularism and when we talk we become communal. If there is one party which is using religion for the sake of politics it is the present ruling party. We got the majority. We ruled the country for six years. We gave the air connectivity, rail connectivity, highway connectivity, rural connectivity, telecom connectivity, television connectivity, port connectivity and we got political connectivity with all parties. We have taken every party along with us. We have to live together. We have to work together. We have to take the country forward. We cannot look back forever continuously to the pages of history earlier, though we should not forget history. In Ayodhya there are so many other temples. Many people asked me why you talk of this temple along? We are particular, because we believe that it is the birth place of Lord Rama. In this country, Rama is a household name. Rama is Maryada Purushothama. Some people are making comments about my leader. My leader did the greatest service to this nation for the cause of country’s unity by brining in the concept of cultural nationalism. We are proud of our association with Ramajanma Bhoomi Movement. We want to see that there is a magnificent temple in the birth place of Lord Rama. But, at the same time, we have no disrespect for Muslims or Christinas. We want to have their own Mosque at a suitable place. We are not asking for handing over all the temples which were destroyed earlier. Secularism does not mean irreligiousness. Secularism does not mean anti-Hindu. If you talk of

229 Hindutava, it is wrong. What is wrong in Hindutva? Hindutva is the way of life. That is what the Supreme Court said. India is one, one nation, one people. A common civil code like in the State of Goa should come to the country, at the earliest, after an agreement by all the people. The Liberhan Commission also mentions that Namaj was not being offered there for the last 70 years. You laid a foundation stone there. Do you want to perpetuate this sort of psychology and continue your vote bank politics or you want to address the core issue? Settle this issue once and for all. Be realistic. You know pretty well that nobody is going to do anything. For 50, 60 years, courts also did not do anything. It is a dispute about a site of 2.3 acres. Give and take approach should be there, because we want to live together, we want to live happily, we want to prosper, we want to compete with the so-called great countries of the West or the other countries and we want to become so strong nation. Don't try to mislead the minority community of the country as if something is happening to them. Whether it is minority or majority, they are equal part of this country. So, please, allow a proper atmosphere for construction of a Great Rama Temple there. SARDAR TARLOCHAN SINGH: We should reject the report of this Commission outrightly. This incident took place, because the dispute was pending for a long time. All parties were telling that if the decision is taken by the court, we will implement that, but no decision was taken by the court. We all know that Rajeev Gandhi laid the Shilanyas there but there is no mention about this in the report. Why were the efforts failed to solve this dispute. The efforts to harmonize the country made by Guru Nanak in Sikh dharma are before you. There is no greater example of national harmony that the foundation stone of Golden Temple was laid by Miyan Meer, a Muslim priest. This has been said every time that the spirit of India is demoralized by demolishing Babri Mosque. But you forget that greater atrocities were committed upon us in 1984. This is said that Karsevaks went there to demolish the mosque but who demolished the golden temple? Your force! yours tanks! Who sent all this? The ! No body is prepared to say anything about this that this was unfair. There was three- nation theory during British rule. Pakistan had offered us everything but we merged in India declining everything. But what happened to us is before you to see.

230 SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN: Many things have been said about the report but the crux of the matter is that there was a breach of law that binds this country and this Constitution together. And number two, while we laugh at the report, this Report is the documentation of what is really a symbol and an emblematic of monstrous political immorality. I would like to suggest to the Government that it brings a law to amend the Commission of Inquiry Act limiting the number of extensions. I too agree that Justice Liberhan could have a report at a much earlier time, and there should be a time limit on the number of extensions which can be given. However, the report is the document which reflects that it was the brink of communal discord and disharmony. This contains invaluable and incriminating evidence which both State and society have to ensure that such incidents are never to happen again. The heart of the Report is that the institutions which are sworn to uphold the rule of law in this country, were compromised from inside by treacherous individuals who found their way inside the State into Constitutional offices and working inside the State, they conspired with those working from outside to furthering the political agenda of their own parties. We stand for our democracy. We stand for the principles of our democracy. If the entire State and the rule of law is suborned to a private agenda in this way, then, that is the single greatest blot upon our democracy. This House must take this report with the greatest seriousness, and, not something that we should joke about or laugh about. To say that it was not a conspiracy is something that would be not, in the least, fooling the most credulous of persons, both within and outside the House. We all know very well what the BJP and the RSS did on that day. We are not pseudo-moderates. We believe in secularism and our secularism is very clear; equal respect for all religion. They accused us of being irreligious. For us, religion is personal. I don't have to justify my Hinduism to anybody over here. We believe in Mahatam Gandhi who believe in the Constitution of India and who believe that this country and this fabric should stay united. The issue is not who is a Hindu or whether a temple existed before the mosque. The issue here is deliberately and provocatively breaking the law and that is why the BJP will be forever in the dock on December 6. Commitment to secularism of many people is totally hypocritical and politically expedient. These are power hungry people, desperate to do anything to come to office.

231 SHRI MOHAMMED ADEEB: It appears that we stand there where we stood 17 years ago. Even today debate is going on what has been written by the commission and the culprits are pointing out errors in its report. They are not ready to appreciate that the fabric of this nation was completely destroyed and mockery was made of the constitution. In 1947, if this country was divided then, in 1992 the sentiments of the people were shattered and we were targeted. The Government of Shiv Sena and BJP threw the report of Shri Krishna Commission in the dustbin. When Nanawati Commission will submit its report, it will be said that the people died naturally and they were not killed. I want to say on the issue of Majsid that the issue is related to land and who is owner of this land and a suit is going on in the court since 1949. Many of the issues have been concealed in the report of this commission also. It has been pointed out in the report that the Muslim Tanzim did not take any initiative. What could be done by the society living in the minority. The society went before the Supreme Court, Parliament and National Integration Council and appealed to all of them to protect that mosque. SHRI RAJNITI PRASAD: Their objective was to demolish the mosque, not to construct temple. This issue was raked up to disturb the communal harmony of this country. The Rathyatra, was carried out to instigate the people of India in the name of religion and Ram. That Rathyatra was stopped by Shri Lalu Prasadji who believed that the Rathyatra was carried on communal basis. This has not been pointed out in the report of Liberhan Commission that it was known to the Narsingh Rao Government of the Congress that the mosque was likely to the demolished there but it remained a mute spectator. I want to say that we will have to ban the BJP party and RSS if we want to save the Constitution of India and maintain the importance of India because they have sabotaged communal harmony of India and hurt the soul of the Constitution. SHRI RAASHID ALVI: No one has taken any lesson from this issue of Ram Janam Bhoomi and Babri Masjid. Some want votes in the name of temple and some in the name of masjid. The Liberhan Commission was appointed later on but Parliament had already denounced the demolition of Babri Masjid prior to that. Truth does not come to an end just because of leakage of the report. This has to be found out who were the people who had demolished the Babri Masjid.

232 The Fundamental Rights guarantee religious freedom but it was not maintained in Ayodhya. Much is said about the Ram Rajya where even birds and animals were treated equally without any discrimination. But their slogan of Jai Shri Ram has a different implication. Lord Ram went to the forest for the sake of his father’s pledge, but they did not do what they pledged in the Supreme Court that the Babari Masjid would not be demolished. I regard those people to be responsible for the demolition of the Babari Masjid who provoked them to do so. The mosque was built there in 1528. The Rambhakt Tulsidas being contemporary of the mosque, wrote nowhere as such. It is impossible to say the exact location where Rasool Christ, Mosque were born. It is the people of the Samajwadi Party who filed affidavit in the Supreme Court, I have a copy thereof. SHRI SABIR ALI: Much has been said in the discussion being held on the report of the Commission in support and against the same. The demolition took place during the reign of Congress in centre and 17 years have passed since then. I want to know whether anyone has been punished. Therefore, and shall be punished therefor? After the demolition first riot took place in Bombay, a Congress ruled State. It was during the Congress rule it was locked and unlocked and the issue was made hot. Thus they are equally responsible. 2000 to 3000 persons killed after the demolition. Every party is misguiding muslims in the name of uplifting. Let it be stopped and guilty be punished. SHRI B. S. GNANADESIKAN: Who was responsible, which leader gave the call, who are the persons went there and what happened on the fateful day of 6th December, 1992. Most of the officials who were in- charge of Ayodhya were transferred from that place and officers who are affiliated to the Sangh Parivar and sympathisers of the said cause brought in and put in-charge of Ayodhya complex. Whether in any State, which is ruled by a political party, under the R.P. Act., Chief Minister can assume a role himself, allow the Kar Sevaks and things to happen unless he has got a clear mandate and signal from the leadership of the national political party from . Mr. Kalyan Singh must come out clearly. When in 1949, the idol was placed, a report was called for from the Central Government and the State Government. The then District Magistrate sent a report by saying that there was no person well versed in rituals to remove the idol. Respect to all religions is the civilisation of this country. Therefore, the leaders here are Advani and company, and, therefore, the BJP is responsible.

233 SHRI ABDUL WAHAB PEEVE: That was the darkest day in the history of secular India. My friends from North India who are shouting now and they are very much interested in Urdu Shers. We give education to girls, especially, Muslim girls. That is why the Kerala Muslims are revered all over the country, in the outside world also. I request my Muslim brothers in North India to see who is the real enemy. So, my sincere prayer to our Muslim friends in North India is to have their own ideology, to have some sort of organisation. It is the duty of the Central Government to compensate the 3000 displaced, killed and affected Muslims and others in the riots following the Ayodhya incident.

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V. K. AGNIHOTRI, Secretary-General. [email protected] ______****Supplement covering rest of the proceedings is being issued separately.

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