Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Introduce Yourself marc brickman 2 months ago hello everyone, currently live in malibu ca on the ocean and work from my studio here at the house... my time is spent these days raising my daughter who is 2-1/2. for years i travelled the world with rock bands as their production / lighting designer so my tools were light, image and darkness... about 8 years ago we were living in a nyc downtown loft when i began to paint and have not stopped. my interest is to be a great technical painter as the subject matter flows effortlessly. i have hundreds of pieces piled up in storage and in my studio but i still don't feel that i have hit my stride. i hope this class will give me the knowledge i am searching for worldwide.
Michael Clifford 1 day ago Hello Marc, Do you know anything about Arduino, as lighting hardware/sotware. Any advice apreciated. Thanks, Mike Arduino workshop 12th/13th May at la 4uatrieme, from 11am to 4pm /// Hội thảo Arduino ngày 12 & 13 tháng 5 tại La 4uatrieme /// Arduino workshop 12/13 de Mayo en la 4uatrieme, de 11am a 4pm
Arduino is an open-source electronics prototyping platform based on flexible, easy-to-use hardware and software. It's intended for artists, designers, hobbyists, and anyone interested in creating interactive objects or environments.
Terry Lee 2 months ago I'm Terry Lee and I live in Sacramento. I am retired from the real estate business and I recently graduated from California State University in Sacramento with a degree in studio art. I thought that this course looked like something I would enjoy as my previous education was long on theory but short on technique.
Isabelle Spicer 2 months ago Hello from Berlin, Germany! I am French but spent the last 7 seven years abroad : 3 years in Russia, then 3 years in Washington, DC, and recently moved to Berlin. I first learned painting in Moscow, with a Russian Master. Then in DC, I took studio classes at the Smithsonian and at the Torpedo Factory. I also volunteered at the Phillips Collection and took a docent class at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. I also write about art on a French blog called Délit d'initié. Here is the link : http://isabellespicer.blog.lemonde.fr I look forward to learn more about the New York School, I enjoyed very much the show at MoMA 2 years ago. I am also interested in improving my painting techniques.
1 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold 2 months ago I grew up in Nevada and now live in Utah. I graduated with a BFA from the University of Utah a long time ago, and I haven't painted seriously in about twenty years--having raised two sons and managed a law office in the interim--but I am ready to paint again. I love the art of this period, and am looking forward to learning more about these artists and how they worked.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago I live in San Francisco. Before retirement I owned a contemporary art gallery in Spokane, Washington, from 1996-2009. I have always loved to draw but I have never done any painting. I also love to travel and have visited many museums and galleries over the years. I am very excited to try something new.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Hi! I'm Calli Shelton and I live in Houston, Texas, USA. Unlike some of the others in the class, I have no previous art training or education. My story about how I got here is probably somewhat unique! A little more than a year ago, I took my daughter on a weekend "art trip" to New York City. She's an art history major and I love art so it seemed like a fun thing to do....visit a few museums, go to a Broadway show, see some sights. One of our stops, of course, was the MOMA, where I was stopped in my tracks by some of the abstract works, especially the ones by Jackson Pollock. It just so happened that I had recently moved into a new house with high ceilings (13 feet!) and huge, very empty walls. Having been unsuccessful in finding (or being able to afford!) art the size of those massive walls, I decided that I should just do a Jackson Pollock-style drip painting myself...so I did! My first attempt was...ummmm....a learning experience. :) It's 10 feet long, 4 1/2 feet wide and is hanging in the front hallway. As I tell people, it's not a great masterpiece but there are some things I like about it! I've been experimenting with abstract painting ever since. I went to England in the spring to work with an artist there whose style I admire and I've produced about 20 paintings at this point - one of my favorites is attached. I feel like I've learned all I can on my own for now so I'm excited to explore new things in this class! Attachments:
Candi Imming 2 months ago Love your painting....I think that is cool you did that. I also like the colors...soothing to view. Candi
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi!
2 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago That painting is super. You have got a great rhythm going and I love the variety and the colours!
John Valentich 2 months ago Calli: I'm really impressed with No 9! You seem to have captured all of Pollock's moves and I love your color choices and layers. In fact, if Corey told me this was a Pollock I needed to study to understand Pollock, I'd believe him! What type of paint did you use? Why don't you post more images of your work over in the Cedar Tavern?
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Lulu, the colors are what I really like about it. That and the little white triangle...not sure how that happened but I think it's interesting!
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks, John! I'm a little uncomfortable with impressing anyone at this point...lol...I just throw paint around and hope for the best! I'm using high gloss, oil-based enamel paints I get from a local paint store thinned with paint thinner and sometimes adding Japan drier. High tech stuff. :)
Kathia G 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton Calli & Lucy - It looks like we could paint together in the same studio. Love your paintings. Thanks for sharing them!
Candi Imming 2 months ago Originating from Nebraska, I moved to the Hopkinton, MA area for a job change more than a decade ago. Currently, I work as a manager in software engineering and daily deal with the challenges that presents in a global workplace. I would have to say I am a visual person, as that remains my primary way for getting information and retaining it. I also like to connect with people and prefer face to face communication (faster to get to the point), but have a great deal of practice using written communication, too. I have always liked photography and video, but have also worked with clay, watercolor, pastels, and finally acrylic. Acrylics currently meet my needs for messing around with paint and I like to use bright colors. I am trying to expand my capabilities in painting and be more comfortable with creating non-representational work. I also want to take my execution and presentation up a notch, if possible. For some reason I really like doing portraits, so I need to have challenges to try other subjects. I do the art to satisfy me, have fun, and try to execute what I envision. I find it a plus if someone else likes it, too. Last year a local art center had an abstract show, which I did enter and had one piece accepted. It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted to do, so I am hoping to speed that process up with this class. I was a chemistry major in college and did not take any art classes until much
3 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
later. I have taken several photography courses, and art classes at Joslyn Art Museum, Danforth Museum, and Worcester Art Museum. I would say "interested amateur" classifies me. Looking forward to a MOMA class with other students. Candi (I sometimes have a hard time going by Candace, as that is what I got called when I was in trouble as a kid. When I moved to New England someone told me they thought "Candi" was a stripper name. First time I heard that. Anyway, I will respond to either form.)
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Great to hear from you all and start to get to know you! One of my favorite things about this course is how diverse our group always is, both in terms of background and where we're from. As for me, I grew up in Maine and go back as often as I can. I studied chemistry and art in college and have been combining the two ever since. Looking forward to seeing your own experiments soon!
Elizabeth Wood 2 months ago Greetings from Vancouver, B.C. I work as a manager in a global tech company and spend the better part of my week immersed in the corporate world. I studied art part-time when I was at home raising my children in the early 90s at a time when installation art took precedence over painting. I’m keen to understand painting better; to see if it might be more suited to the ideas that I want to express than installation art has been. The New York School seems like an exciting place to begin to build that knowledge. Elizabeth Wood
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Hi neighbour! I live in North Vancouver.
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse 2 months ago Greetings from Manhattan's Lower East Side. I'm a 24 year old New Yorker, born and raised near the Columbia campus in Morningside Heights. I took a brief hiatus from the big apple to spend four years studying English and Political Science at Washington University in St. Louis, returning to New York after graduating and taking some time to road-trip across the country and back (mostly looking to find as much trouble as I possibly could). Back in New York I've spent the past year and a half preparing my portfolio to apply for a Masters of Fine Art in Fiction Writing, and now spend a couple nights a week slinging drinks as a bartender to keep the lights on. I have long been a museum junkie and art enthusiast, but only started toying with the idea of painting during my senior year of college. Without any sort of fine art training at the time, formal or otherwise, I tried to teach myself how to paint by copying a few of my favorite paintings (my rather bizarre list included works by Robert Delaunay, de Vlamnick, and Kandinsky), all of which generally turned into little more than exercises in mixing horribly muddied gray and brown paint, and ruining quite a few nice new brushes in frustration and laze. All of which led to me give up the notion of pursuing what was clearly my intense desire to paint for almost a year. Shortly after the passing of my grandmother, who was a poet, and with whom I was very close, I
4 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
was back in New York and I began spray painting random lines of her work around Lower Manhattan. I think it was the rush of putting up those tags in the dead of night that re-sparked my desire to paint, and over the past year I've moved from the street into the studio, and what time I don't spend working on my writing, has been spent reading everything I can get my hands on about the history of modern art and it's assorted materials and techniques. Today I'm working on increasingly large canvases (I just finished stretching and priming my newest piece, which will clock in at 54"x64"), mostly working in oil and alkyd enamel, generally trying to blend aspects of Abstract Expressionism, or more accurately, action painting, with elements of neo-expressionism (shocking, I really like to write on my work) and street art. Anyway, sorry if I've gone on a little long (as my bottle of Wild Turkey crawls closer to its inevitable bottom I tend to get slightly long-winded), but I'm very excited to continue getting to know you all as we delve deeper into the New York School, and as I sweat out the coming weeks before I hear back from grad schools and face the ever more pertinent question of how I see myself and what I'll dedicate more of my time to: writing or painting. That said, cheers everyone!
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Fascinating story, Tyler - thanks for sharing! Your passion is unmistakeable. I can't wait to see some pictures of your work!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Love street art in NYC - do you have any images of yours available?
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I admire street art too, particularly the high end variety. In fact, I've started a project photographing the legal and illegal street art of Pittsburgh. Does anyone know of books devoted to the street art of a particular city? Have you seen the film "Exit Through the Gift Shop"?
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich That's a fascinating movie and we are going to show edited bits to our 5th graders for their graffiti project. We can't spray paint the school, but we are going to spray stencil onto paper and then use them to "tag" key areas like the admin halls, restrooms, and cafeteria. Do you think Thierry Guetta/Mr. Brainwash is for real? It's certainly presented that way, but by the end of the film I felt like it was really about Banksy and his ideas about art.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth I think Mr Brainwash physically exists, but whether he's who he thinks he is or the unwitting creation of Banksy is an open issue. I guess that's the whole idea of the film...what's real and what's fake is just a matter of perception. I think you're right. Given Banksy's predilection for clever pranks, the film is "the old master's" way of rejecting upstart street artist wannabies like Brainwash who interlope on his art market and carfully crafted reputation and oeuvre.
5 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 2 months ago Hello All! This is Merren Booth from Virginia. I teach art at a small private elementary school just outside of Washington, DC. I have a master's degree and have been teaching for about 15 years. My program is tied to the social studies curriculum at our school, and the older grades cover the twentieth century for the American history unit. I get a lot of questions about modern art and whether it is "real art" and if it really is as "hard to do" as representational drawing and painting and sculpture. I know as much about the stuff as anyone who's taken a college survey course, and I am excited about the hands-on opportunities in this class. I hope what I learn here can be translated into engaging and successful projects and meaningful discussions with my students.
Michael Clifford 2 months ago Hello All, I'm an Englishman living in Vietnam. But it was when I lived in Valencia, Spain that my joy of art was born with regular visits to the IVAM (a Spanish MOMA). Although I have had no training in art, my first degree is in Communications and so I've had exposure to some interesting theories on the topic. I am now taking a break from a masters course in online and distance education. I hope that this MOMA course will give me an insight into the online studying experience, whilst studying something that interests me and of course, allowing some time to throw some paint around! Looking forward to working and sharing some ideas with you all, Mike
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Hi Mike, I'm also in distance education - I studied at Nova Southeastern and have worked in the field for about 10 years now. Where are you studying? Calli
Michael Clifford 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton Hi Calli, I'm studying with the Open University in the UK. Here's the module I completed last year. It was full on, and so i'm taking a break to persue my art. i'll be back to the masters next year with the 'technoligical innovations in teaching', in the meantime I'm doing other online courses with Alison.com and Udemy, whilst sitting in on a few lectures on the open course ware courses offered by MIT. Do you teach/tutor online and is your field in the arts?
Mike
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Michael Clifford
6 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Hi Mike, That module looks great! Was at as good as it looks?? You sound like you stay busy, even on your "break"! I got my doctorate in Instructional Technology and Distance Education from Nova Southeastern a few years ago. I run the training department for a large healthcare company so, no, I'm defintely not in the arts. :) There is a creative side to my work, though - visual and instructional design is the "fun stuff" for me! Let me know if I can help get you connected in the e-learning world. :) Calli
Laura Minsk-Karellos 2 months ago Hello everyone! I am originally from Buenos Aires, Argentina, but I have spent most of my life in the Philadelphia area. I've always been interested in art and science. I was a dedicated artist (mostly painting) in high school, and have a degree in art history from the University of Pennsylvania. But when it came time to choose a profession science won. I became a periodontist and I have a private practice in Swarthmore, PA (outside of Philadelphia). Now that my periodontal practice is well established, I am looking forward to again exploring my artistic side. This course looks perfect as it combines both theory and technique. I am back to my first love! :-)
Kathia G 2 months ago I am Peruvian with a degree in Finance, living in the US for 16 years (2 in Chicago, 12 in San Francisco and 2 in New York City). I like all sorts of arts, from mixed media, photoshop, illustrator, fashion, and jewelry creation. By working at the Consulate of Peru in Chicago, I helped once with the organization of an art exhibit, presenting paintings of a key figure on the abstract world of Latin America, Peruvian painter Fernando de Szyszlo. Never imagined by then that I was going to be exploring abstracts myself. I took some art classes in San Francisco and recently attended workshops in NYC. I don´t like painting landscapes or anything too real. I am attracted to mixed media, pop art, and abstracts, finding them youthful and energizing. Too bad that graffiti is not allowed or I might be painting the city while my kids are at school...LOL. Why the class online living in NYC? I have two kids who own my schedule. Can´t wait to start painting a Pollock!
Kathia G 2 months ago I´m at a beginner stage where I paint for fun, not afraid of incorporating everything I could find into my paintings. My inspiration are mainly women with attitude, but I also like Britto, pop art, and messy playful art. I saw this painting in Sydney and I tried to copy it incorporating mixed media. My kids and their friends think I´m a real artist. ;) Attachments:
7 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich 2 months ago Hi! I live in Pi sburgh, PA, my childhood home. I'm re red from a career as a research cell biologist which enabled me to live in Philadelphia, England and Houston. I've been interested in viewing art and art history for years, but only last summer took my first studio art class (oil pain ng) since grade (not grad!) school! I enjoyed it so much, I've con nuously taken a variety of pain ng and drawing classes since then at the Carnegie Museum and University of Pi sburgh. So far my "oeuvre" consists of about a dozen works ranging from copies of O'Keeffe and Van Gogh to a few original a empts at abstrac on. I'm more accomplished in photography than pain ng so I base a lot of my pain ng on my own reference photographs. Some of my favorite living painters are Toma Abts, Gerhard Richter and Max Gimble . paula J swett 2 months ago Hello and I am excited to finally get to post. I went to the cedar bar first. I live in Pennsylvania, originally from Vermont. I have just retired from many years as a Social Worker. I love creating contemporary textile paintings. My artwork is composed of my richly colored hand dyed, surface designed fabrics. I love art and have always been interested. I took some watercolor classes but do not paint regularly. I am here because i would like to learn more about abstract painting and i would like to start painting. I have no formal art training but at this point in life i am eager to learn. I chuckled to myself when Corey referenced paintings that we would all probably know. I am basically familiar with the names of the New York school but I am here to learn. A friend suggested I start here so here I grow.
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago Hello Everyone! My name is Lisa Ormerod and I currently live in San Francisco where I am a marketing professional in healthcare. I have a degree in painting from The Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts in Philadelphia, PA. After graduating, I was actively making, showing and curating work in Chicago. I have tinkered with different medias from painting, drawing, installation to performance art. I took a hiatus from making work for about 12 years, and have recently returned and have started again with the basics of painting and drawing. I am not an abstract painter and don't know much about this group or time period. I am very excited to learn more about the New york School! Attachments:
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago Hi Lisa. Since we both live in San Francisco, maybe we can get together at some future
8 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
date. I saw some wonderful Robert Ryman paintings at the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts a few years ago.
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I was thinking the same thing! That would be fantastic, I would enjoy that. Are you in the city? Send me a private message and we can meet for a beverage of some kind!
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Sending private messages between students is disabled in this class. But please give me a call at (415) 525-4632. Yes, I live in the city. I look forward to hearing from you. Lorinda
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago I'm Lucy Godwin , born in England, grew up in Geneva Switzerland, and have lived in Vancouver BC Canada for many years. I really like the way MOMA has set up this fabulous for online learning.Thanks very much to all who laboured hard at MOMA to produce this course including our facilitator, I have a degree in Adult Ed. but work as a paralegal by day to bring in the bacon. My dining room is my studio, my apartment is full of paintings, canvases, paints and junk that we artists cannot throw out Just In Case it comes in useful one day! Love Love Love street art and I paint to very loud hip hop music and more recently some raunchy raggae by a dude named Vybz Kartel or Don Di Gaza not sure which - a CD I bought on 125th in Harlem at Xmas when I came to see the De Kooning show at MOMA. WOW brilliant. I really have little talent as an artist but to paint is my joy. My home is full of art books. I obtained a diploma at in Fine Arts at Emily Carr about 9 years ago I am very happy to connect with everyone here and I am looking forward to learning lots and sharing what we create. Current art work at www.lucygodwin.com Attachments:
Kathia G 2 months ago =)
Candi Imming 2 months ago Hey, Lulu---love your images...including the one with you. Looks like you have fun!
Annie Hogan 2 months ago Hi there, I am Annie. I am Australian amd living in New Jersey and really enjoy visiting MoMA, the Met and Chelsea to see what's happening and what is currently being 'celebrated' as the latest in contemporary art. I am a photographic artist but have always wanted to paint and understand painting at a deeper level. I am very excited about the possibiites of this course. I want to do everything and love the idea of being a student again. I've always wanted to know
9 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the impetus behind abstraction/abstract expressionism, and thought this would be a fabulous hands on way of learning about it. I am a new Mum and have a 7 month old baby boy so I am busy!
Penelope Rothfield 2 months ago I am in a BFA program here in Chicago--I have taken several painting classes-- my art school has a belief that "art cannot be taught" which is no doubt largely true--still and all--there is more that i feel i need to know--(surely i will be learning how to paint for the rest of my life...) and so I am really looking forward to this class and all that i am certain i can learn from it, from Corey. I have a previous undergraduate degree in history--a subject i studied, i think, to please my parents! I grew up in New Hampshire and lived in New York City for about 5 years. I will probably never get over leaving New England and so i hope to someday live there again (I also go back whenever I can). It is hard for me to say who my favorite painters/artists are (there are so many!)--Bonnard's woman in bathtub paintings always blow me away. I love Eva Hesse's paintings/drawings (as well as her sculptural work), Victor Hugo's drawings, and even though i think of myself as a painter/drawer, I admire very much the California space and light artists. My artist heroine right now is Maria Nordman--I say to myself that i would like to be just like her yet we are so different--(obviously...). The painters i am looking at right now are Sergej Jensen and Joan Mitchell. I would like to somehow add stitching to my paintings and experiment more with different materials such as bleach and yet somehow paint like Joan Mitchell.....may not work out...don't know yet....
ALEX REVILLA 2 months ago Hello everyone have a happy week !! ... I'm Alex Revilla, From Venezuela, I Live in Caracas. I am Senior Partner Baker Tilly Venezuela, a Public accountant Firm , member of eight largest International Firm of the world.
But I love the art world ... I have done several courses in oil painting, silkscreen, etc.. I have visited many art museums in the world and in recent years.... major international art fairs. I am an incipient collector and I have many artist friends.
The most important Venezuelan plastic artist to date is Armando Reveron and the masters kinetic Jesus Soto and Cruz Diez, who is still alive. For me it is a pleasure to share with you this interesting experience Online course developed by the MOMA and have the support of Instructor Cory, who with his experience and patience will provide its expertise and guidance needed to understand the techniques developed by this Important Artists Group . I hope to catch up with the course and dedicade more time to ART…. Encantado de compartir este curso con todos ustedes….
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago hola Alexis! actually I just worked on a Soto at the Guggenheim last week, and a few years ago we mounted a gorgeous Reveron show at MoMA. I'm not familiar with Diez but I'll check him out...looking forward to seeing your work as well!
kristen lyn morrison 2 months ago
10 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I uploaded the MoMa app and was thrilled to find the classes. I am a painter who is exploring non-objective work. I am excited to start painting in the styles of so many great painters.
Lauren Clarke 2 months ago Hi, I'm so excited to be taking this course. My first degree is in violin performance and second degree is in communications. Have never taken a formal art class before, but lived in the city for 8 years and loved visiting the MOMA, my favorite museum. Now live in Florida with my family and am grateful to access this virtually. Thanks!
dana len 2 months ago Hi Everyone! I am joining you a bit late because I was visiting-where else?- New York last week! While in New York I had the honor of meeting Ariel and seeing some of the work we will be studying! I am from Hawaii. I am the Drawing and Painting teacher at Punahou High School. I graduated from Cornish College of the Arts in Seattle in 1997 but my concentration was in Photo and Printmaking. I took about 10 years off from creating art to have 2 kids. When I returned to the art world, digital photography had taken over and I was not into digital like I was into film. About a year ago I took an Atelier class from Snowden Hodges and fell in love with oil painting. I want to know everything I can about painting! I am excited to be part of this class and cant wait to LEARN! This is the last painting I did. It is 4'x6' done in oil and maroger on a canvas that I stretched on stretcher bars that I made! : )dana Attachments:
Merren Booth 2 months ago What is "maroger"? How does it affect the oil? Wonderful painting! I love Asian art, too!
dana len 2 months ago in reply to Merren Booth Hi Merren! Thank you! Maroger (pronounced mare-row-zhay) is a painting medium made of beewax, linseed oil and a small amount of lead. It is the consistency of toothpaste and you do not need any other mediums or solvents. Great stuff. Here is a link to a brief history of the maroger medium... http://web.mac.com/snowden_hodges/Contemporary_Realism/Maroger_Medium.html
K. Emma Wong about 1 month ago Hi All! Think I may be the last one to the party... But Hello! I'm a San Francisco native who left
11 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
home to work in NYC for several years before moving to Chapel Hill a few months ago to join my other half (better half?) -- I'll be getting married around the time this course ends! In the meantime, I am taking a break from work to focus on my health. I fell in love with painting two years ago when I took an intensive Fine Arts course at Parsons. Am looking forward to learning more in this class. Cheers!
12 of 12 5/11/12 8:00 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
The Cedar Bar John Valentich 6 days ago Who's Your Favorite Starving Abstractionist? An interesting thing I've recently begun to appreciate is that there are a whole lot of artists from the '40s and today working in the AE idiom but are generally unknown. We constantly hear about a dozen names but there are probably 100's of artists out there who did or are doing significant abstract art. A couple of weeks ago I visited Philadelphia to see the Van Gogh show (which was mind blowing…get the catalog,,,it’s well worth it) but I also had an opportunity to visit 2 other museums in Philadelphia. I learned about 3 artists I never heard of (Elaine Kurtz, Moe Brooker and Norman Lewis). Kurtz's work was particularly inspiring since it deals with landscape abstraction, one of my major interests. I've posted some photos of these artists' work here: https://picasaweb.google.com/112822391554950267229 /PhiladelphiaArtTripApril2012?authkey=Gv1sRgCNa0n9X6iJSOmwE
I also had a chance to see a Robert Ryman installation. In this case, viewing these paintings in the setting for which they were designed to be shown greatly eclipsed their reproduction in any book or web page. I also saw paintings by Marsden Hartley and Arthur Dove which re-emphasized the fact that all art is in some way derivative of the past.
If you have a favorite abstract artist that's off most people's radar screens, post their names or a link to a web site so we can expand our horizons. Michael Clifford 6 days ago Hello John, I've set up a Diigo group for us to post any common links to (including the three above, John). An invite has been sent to those on the google doc list. I'll invite you all as and when you put your names up https://docs.google.com/document /d/1bOa1XyRuY6rH0CRsff0oONTlknMn45gXjzL8bak3ne8/edit Time is running out, let's not lose contact! Cheers, Mike
Penelope Rothfield 5 days ago Well, many of the contemporary abstract painters who are interesting me rght now are probably pretty well known, like Charline von Heyl (an uplifting article on her current exhibition at Tate Liverpool can be found at "Abstract Critical" (a place i really like to hang out....) http://abstractcritical.com/2012/05/now-or-
1 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
else-charline-von-heyl-at-tate-liverpool/ and then I also like two painters who exist at probably the other end of the spectrum, Raoul de Keyser (i esp. love his watercolors) http://www.davidzwirner.com/artists/raoul-de-keyser/ and Thomas Nozkowski. a few artists you may not have heard of, Joanne Greenbaum http://www.shanecampbellgallery.com/artists/greenbaum , one of my teachers, Dana De Giulio, who is fantastic, and her work is also fantastic http://danadegiulio.com/ and last might be Sergej Jensen, one of my favorites http://whitecube.com/artists/sergej_jensen/ (sorry i could not limit myself to only one....there are so many!!! Penelope Rothfield 5 days ago oh sorry --i just sort of copied and pasted the links into my post and now i see that they are not highlighted --if i can figure out how to fix this soon I will --in any event, all of the artists are easily googled... Candi Imming 5 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield You need to put them in as links. Here you go, Penelope. http://abstractcritical.com/2012/05/now-or-else-charline-von-heyl-at-tate-liverpool/ http://www.davidzwirner.com/artists/raoul-de-keyser/ http://www.shanecampbellgallery.com/artists/greenbaum http://whitecube.com/artists/sergej_jensen/ http://danadegiulio.com/
Lisa Ormerod 4 days ago A new abstract image maker, well new to me, is Mark Bradford. He layers paper, paint, cardboard, tape on canvas with stunning results. He has a huge retrospective at SFMoMA http://www.sfmoma.org/exhib_events/exhibitions/431 He is mentioned in the artist list in the online collage class which I signed up for. Don't want to lose momentum! Hope to see some of you there!
John Valentich 4 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Bradford looks interesting; just the type of artist I want to learn about. Did you hear him speak at SFMoMA a few days ago? Tomorrow I start a collagraph printmaking class here in Pittsburgh. I'm hoping to use the prints as starting points for abstract paintings. The collagraphic plates may also be interesting sources for paintings. I'm very curious to know how the MoMA collage course works out. Both in comparison to this course and the art you produce. Please keep us posted on FB!
John Valentich 4 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield I see interesting stuff among all these artists' work. I ordered Greenbaum's painting book since Amazon had if for a good price plus I like the heavy graphic elements in her work. Thanks for sharing and thanks for alerting me to Abstract Critical!
2 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Penelope Rothfield 4 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks so much, Candi! ...really above and beyond! Penelope Rothfield 4 days ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks for alerting me to the Greenbaum book--i will definitely check it out. Penelope Rothfield 4 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod I like his stuff too--i would love to see the collaged hair dresser's paper that i am told he uses sometime (in ' real life'). Lisa Ormerod 1 day ago Go to the site I posted. The collages that use the hair paper are represented there. These pieces are enormous. Over human scale, some over 11 feet high and wide. It astounding the size of these and the materials that he employs to get the final piece is pretty inspirational. John Valentich about 22 hours ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Don't miss!!! the link at the bottom of the page "Discover Bradford's Work -- Learn More" http://www.pinocchioisonfire.org/ John Valentich 1 day ago Ignore...my mistake x John Valentich 1 day ago Mistake...message deleted John Valentich 7 days ago Road Trip to Michigan? The Flint (Michigan) Institute of Arts has 2 potentially interesting and complementary exhibits this summer:
5.5.12 – 8.19.12 Abstract Expressionism: Then and Now http://www.flintarts.org/exhibitions/upcoming_abex.html
8.4.12 – 10.28.12 Abstract Expressionist Works on Paper http://www.flintarts.org/exhibitions/upcoming_abex2.html Penelope Rothfield 5 days ago Thanks for posting this, John! Works on Paper exhibition looks especially interesting to me. i will probably try to make it out there... Michael Clifford 7 days ago Thanks Lulu and John, I've added your emails to a course contact page I've set up on Google
3 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Docs. Can everyone else who'd like to help out and keep in touch please put your details in at the following link: https://docs.google.com/document /d/1bOa1XyRuY6rH0CRsff0oONTlknMn45gXjzL8bak3ne8/edit The doc is only available to those with the above URL, As I've never had one before, I'll try one of those pisco sours before I go please.. Cheers, Mike
John Valentich 6 days ago Mike, Thanks for aggregating this info. I saw the movie, but one day I want to be IN the Rothko Rooms at the Tate! Candi Imming 6 days ago Sent an email to [email protected] asking when Part 2 of this course would be done and available. Perhaps others could do the same.
John Valentich 7 days ago I'm Not Ignoring You! Apparently there are 522 discussion posts I have not gotten to or don't realize exist. As the course comes to an end, if you posted something and desired a reply from me (but didn't get one) please email me directly at: [email protected] with a link to your query. Also, I'll be following the Facebook page Lulu set up after MoMA access ends on the 20th. Lulu Godwin 6 days ago only 522 posts!!! Yup keeping up is a big challenge here for sure. See you on FB
Lorinda Knight 7 days ago Question for Corey Ever since you talked about your love of baseball (I think it was in the De Kooning week), I have wondered about your favorite team. I hope it is not the Yankees but you do so much good in the world that I would accept that answer. I am going to a Giants game today!
Candi Imming 7 days ago Lorinda, have a great time at the game...I always love going...a great experience. Go RED SOX! Fenway Park is 100 this year.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Show Us What You Got!
After taking close-ups of this week's painting, I turned the camera to wider views of my home studio and posted them here. How about other's giving us a tour of their studios...were all this alchemy and fine art is being created! Attachments:
4 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I have to say I like your setup, John. I do not have anything even close. Thanks for sharing the images.
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Well this is my
space for now. I'm up on the top floor in the altar room with very little natural light but a lot of spirituality. I'm so looking forward to Rothko next week! After that the weather should be good enough for me to venture out on to the terrace. I'll take another pic when I do. There, I've shown you mine, now you show us yours!
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Michael Clifford Okay, I'll show. It's nothing close to John's nirvana but I'm getting more and more comfortable in it. I have windows on 3 sides of the room so lots of natural light. It's long and narrow so it gets a little tight with the big canvases i like to paint on the floor. But, at least it's close to home...the next room over is the kitchen and it's only a 30 second commute to the bedroom. :)
5 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Calli Shelton Don't discount all that wonderful natural light! It's worth a LOT. My room as one 3'X3' window with an overhanging deck above, so I get essentially no natural light. Day or night, I typically have 4 or 5 spot lights going for my painting, pallet, reference photos etc. and I still fight to achieve the right light to see what I'm doing. The most effective lighting set-up for my canvas is to have 2 spot lights clamped onto my easel and facing up to bounce light off the white ceiling. Then I have another light stand behind me to the left of my left shoulder pointed at the canvas. If anyone has better strategies, please let me know. Thanks Mike and Calli for your posts!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago thanks for asking, John! Here are a few photos of my studio at home--I mostly paint in this room. (I store all of my drawing supplies and paper in another room which i did not photograph) I store my oil paint tubes in the small chest of drawers--mediums and solvents are in the tall white metal cabinet--in the ikea mesh drawer thing I keep acrylic paint and watercolor paint and tape, knives, etc. I have an easel, but i rarely use it. I usually paint on the floor (large canvases) and small canvases I just hold in my hand. Most of my brushes are stored flat in a small cubby kind of a thing. I have way too many books which is actually becoming quite oppressive--(i'm trying to do better....) I find the room is way too small --I have no place to store finished canvases and also have no place to store canvases that are ready and waiting--that's a real problem. i try to keep as many of my supplies as possible put away when not in use--i have stepped in paint and bowls of turpenoid so many times! I'm glad you asked to see our places--the studio is a subject i think of all the time.... Attachments:
6 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield I like this thread! I love seeing everyone's work space. I live in San francisco and my apartment is a glorified studio, so I rent a space in a giant warehouse building that rents to a lot of other artists, a chocolate maker, bakers, florists and the San Francisco Art Institute graduate studios. The building has a lot of creative energy! I have had the space for about one year and on the walls of the studio are this class exercises. What I like about this place is that I can make a huge mess and not worry about it too much or worry about the clean up in the sink! Luckily there is built in storage space above the door and lots of shelves. But it is a great space and its nice to have a spot to get me out of my apartment as I work from home as well! Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Is this the Open Studio at Hunters Point? I visited a place like you're describing about 10 years ago. Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Yours is my favorite space so far, Lisa! So functional and freeing! I love that you can make a big mess and not worry about it - that kind of freedom must be wonderful!
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Lisa: I think situating your studio in a milieu of artists is huge, worth every cent. Sort of like this course... Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Thanks! Hunter's Point does indeed have studios. I am in an area called The Dogpatch a semi-industrial area about 1 mile south of AT&T park. This is the first time I have had a studio outside my apartment. I have always lived in cities and rented. And I wondered why I haven't done this before! I hope to keep it although at times it can be a little tough to get to if I am working, so this class helps me get in there very regularly! I think we are all lucky to have a dedicated space to create. I know one person who is working out of a corner of the kitchen.
7 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G 28 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod I love it too Lisa! It´s a good idea to have another place for inspiration. Lucky you!.
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod great space, lisa! i love your studio and especially love the fact that you share building with chocolate makers and florists!!! Wow! And MFA students sharing the space as well--how great! (i love San Francisco!! I have family in Berkeley and always feel as though i am in a fairy tale world whenever i get out there to visit....) (i see that i have used too many exclamation points in this entry! oh well!) Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton i like this space--great windows! Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford your space looks perfect for working on Rothko style paintings--enveloping and womb-like.... Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago wow I really like your space, John. I am especially envious of your storage systems and drawers and cabinets--you've given me some great ideas. thanks. it looks like a studio that one would really love to spend a lot of time in.... Michael Clifford 11 days ago Dear All, It's been a great course and I've enjoyed 'working' with you all. I wonder if I could trouble you for your help. As I mentioned in the introductions, I am taking a masters course on online and distance education and would love to get feedback from you on this, and any other online course you have taken. Could I please ask you to drop me an email and I will get back to you later in the year when my course starts again (earlier if you fancy a trip to Tate Modern together!). My email address is: [email protected]
Thanks and happy painting, Mike
Lulu Godwin 9 days ago Hi Clifford and everyone [email protected] or on Facebook Lucy Godwin AND on Facebook MOMALICIOUS 2012 where some of us are hanging out. - please come join in
8 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G 28 days ago Back from vacations and having lots of catch up to do! Wondering if someone has tips on how to get nice frames and don´t spend an eye on them. Sometimes they are the most expensive part of the project, don´t you think?
Candi Imming 27 days ago I agree. To get a deal on frames usually means they need to be standard size like 11 x 14 inches. Many times I do not worry about framing...I just paint the sides and hang them up.
Lisa Ormerod 12 days ago In art school one of the cheapest way to frame is to nail a thin piece of wood, like a 2'' wide x 1/4" deep to the stretcher bars. It looks nice and has a finished look without a big profile to it. Kathia G 10 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Thanks Lisa. I´ll try that! Is this the last week of access to internet? I won´t be able to finish Reinhardt.
Lisa Ormerod 10 days ago This week is Frank Stella, which is the last artist but as I understand this course will be open for two weeks after which would shut down our access on May 21... I will ask the tech team to be certain. Kathia G 10 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Thanks! They confirmed the two more weeks. I really enjoyed this class. It benefits having so many people with experience and lots of talent sharing tips.
John Valentich 13 days ago Stella Exhibit in NYC For those in the NYC area, there's a Frank Stella exhibit opening at the L&M Arts Gallery. For the rest of us, there's a nice review in the NYT at: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/arts/design /frank-stellas-early-work-at-lm-arts.html?_r=1
Candi Imming 13 days ago Where have you been and what have you been painting? I have not seen much from you since Rothko week, I think.
Kathia G 13 days ago Thanks!
Lisa Ormerod 12 days ago Thanks! I look forward to seeing this when I am in the big city.
9 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming 12 days ago The Gallery has a web site with pictures of the installation. http://www.lmgallery.com /exhibitions/frank-stella/
Penelope Rothfield 18 days ago Mary Abbott I found this interesting post today via hyperallergic on the abstract expressionist artist Mary Abbott who was a lover of DeKooning's and who made many paintings that are very very similar in many ways to de Kooning's landscape paintings. if you would like to read it i am posting it herehttp://bigthink.com/asher-edelman/mary-abbott-a-wake-up-call
Merren Booth 18 days ago This is fascinating! Reminds me of my discovery in art school about Camille Claudel and Rodin, or Frida Kahlo and Diego (and just as a tangential aside, why do we still have to use full names for women artists and only last names for men in order for poeple to know whom we talk about?). I have really enjoyed this course, but I do wish in the 21st c. we could start expanding art history to include more women in art education! is it a chicken/egg conundrum....there were plenty of women artists working we just don't know about them but if we knew about them then we would see plenty of women artists in art!
John Valentich 17 days ago Thanks for sharing this link. I'm going to read the Stevens/Swan and Hall dK bios when this course ends an am anxious to see how Abbott fits into dK's life and work. I'm particularly interested in landscape abstraction so Abbott's painting, in and of itself, is of interest.
Lisa Ormerod 12 days ago Thanks for the link! I didn't know about her but like her work a lot.
Its interesting to see the works of "minor" artists while thinking about the discussion question for week 9. Seeing that there are more artists who don't make it like a dK or others, is theri art closer to what Reinhardt was talking about since they didn't achieve more commercial success? And how much being a woman has to do with it, OR being a woman who slept with one of the ART GIANTS... interesting to ponder.
John Valentich 17 days ago Bay Area Show This just appeared on my radar screen and may be of interest to those of you in the Bay Area:
Line, Space and Abstract Expression Friday, May 4 6:00p at Joyce Gordon Gallery, Oakland, CA
Joyce Gordon Gallery and A.I. Oakland presents “Line, Space and Abstract Expression” an excursion of four abstract painters finding a similar path along the elements of line, texture and plane; becoming voyagers of an
10 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
alternative abstract expression. These biomorphic paintings all share a common thread of curvilinear lines and divided spaces or planes as Kandinsky may as well refer to them; however each artist find their own technique to understand their path regarding the natural.
Kathia G 27 days ago Today I´m very happy to share "my studio". To be honest I´m usually painting in the family room because the weather is NEVER like this in NYC. So today, I was able to go to our "roof balcony"....LOL I´m sharing my luxury day. Summers are awful here because it´s too hot and humid outside. Oh well, at least today I´m not reorganizing everything after painting and I´m imagining an ocean view.... is that New York City noise what I hear?... No way! Just the sound of waves... =) Attachments:
Candi Imming 27 days ago Nice when you have the sun to warm you. I have a spot with a portable easel in my living room.
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago That looks great! You are lucky to have an outdoor space in the city. Summers are awful, but living in San Francisco I sometimes miss a hot and humid day! Our summers are cold and cloudy. Kathia G 23 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Thanks Lisa! Mark Twain said his colder winter ever was a Summer in San Francisco. it´s easy to spot tourists in SF...the only ones wearing shorts! But nothing like the Bay area for inspiration: San Francisco, Napa, Tiburon, Sausalito...but mainly Tahoe!
Lisa Ormerod 20 days ago There was one summer that I wore a hat, coat, mittens and scarf from July to September... I was nostalgic for those 90+ degree days! I love Tahoe. I never go enough haven't gone this winter but hope to go hiking in the summer, get some sun and warmth! Kathia G 18 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Sunny California =)
Kathia G 23 days ago I have to share this link. Scroll all the way up to Trevor Pawlak. He is 12, lives in the Bay area and his mom is a close friend. I´ve seen pictures of the progress of his paintings. What is special about his work is that Trevor has severe autism. His abstracts look great!
11 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
http://tipoftheknife.blogspot.com/2012/04/tip-of-knife-issue-9.html
dana len about 1 month ago safter oil paint? I'm on a search for the safest oil paints and oil mediums. I recently wrote to the Gamblin paint company about the safety of their cad red, cad yellow, flake white paints and their painting mediums. I have not really used Gamblin paints but they claim to have safer oil painting products. They emailed me back this response... (good info, I thought!) Gamblin Artists Colors Co.'s goal is to advance oil painting by making oil colors with no or very low toxicity. We do not make paints that contain lead, arsenic or mercury. Because there are complete arrays of lightfast pigments available, we have no reason for making toxic paints. Regarding toxic pigments, lead is the only toxic pigment still occasionally used in oil painting. Regarding other pigments and oil paints, the art materials' industry is the second most regulated industry in America. If you do not see caution labels, the materials are not toxic. For more information on health warning labels, contact the Art and Creative Materials Institute at http://www.acminet.org/. The Prop 65 is a California law that requires specific labeling on any product that contains certain ingredients like cadmium to have a warning label regardless of the toxicity of the product. The Prop 65 requirements for labeling is different from the ASTM D 4302 labeling requirements for art materials. Since our products are sold in California as well as all over the world we have included the warning labels they require for all of our products so that we do not have to apply different labels just for products sent to California. If a product has a health warning required by the ASTM D 4302 you will see this warning in addition to the Prop 65 statement. For example on Cobalt Violet there is the prop 65 statement as well as an additional warning statement which states “ WARNING: may cause damage to the heart or testes by ingestion. May produce allergic reaction by skin contact. contains: cobalt… avoid skin contact or ingestion. When using, do not eat, drink, or smoke. Wash hands immediately after use. For further health information contact your local poison control center”. Our Cadmium colors are made from chemically pure cadmium and are of low toxicity and do not require any additional health warnings. If you prefer to use alternatives to cadmiums the Hansa yellows and Napthol Reds are good replacements. They are similar in mass tones but these modern colors are more intense in their tints in comparison to the mineral cadmiums which loose intensity in tints. You can find more information on the difference between the mineral and modern pigments in one of our newsletters. http://www.gamblincolors.com/
Lisa Ormerod 29 days ago
12 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Wow Dana, that is a lot of useful information. Thanks for posting! And leave it to California to have a label through a proposition, although I doubt oil paints was the target of that particular proposition. John Valentich 29 days ago Thanks for posting this info. The Interactive Painting Medium Selection Guide app should be incredibly useful when creating oil paint mixes for specific purposes.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Spring Break? Corey: Does MOMA School have spring break? I'm getting stressed and need some catch up time! Aren't you feeling it too!?
John Valentich about 1 month ago NYS Forgery Problem [This appeared in April's newsletter from the director of the Carnegie Museum of Art in Pittsburgh.]
The Limits of Connoisseurship Inside the Museum with Lynn Zelevansky
April 2nd, 2012
Recently, there’s been a legal and art historical controversy over the authentication of paintings by members of the New York School. That group of artists, also known as Abstract Expressionists, included Jackson Pollock, Mark Rothko, and Robert Motherwell, among other well-known figures. They emerged in New York in the late 1940s, and constituted the first internationally influential US art movement.
In the case at hand, the Dedalus Foundation, founded by Motherwell before his death to protect his legacy, authenticated a number of paintings purported to be by him, which dealers then sold. Later, Dedalus officials became skeptical about the works and withdrew their endorsement, in effect labeling the works forgeries.
Read more: http://web.cmoa.org/director/?p=388
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago This course through MOMA is helping us become connoisseurs, but as part of 'our increasingly DIY culture', I've added the link to this and many others from the course thus far to the social bookmarking site, Diigo. Here's the link http://groups.diigo.com/group/moma_absract-expressionist I thought it would be good to have bookmarks for any sites of interest that we can all share and locate even after the course is over.
Now looking for more music to download for the Pollock- have some Dizzy Gillespy and Miles Davis in the pipeline. Would anyone like to suggest anything else?
13 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Cheers! Mike
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I have created a group page on FaceBook called MOMAliscious 2012 so anyone who wants to post up their work to share and stay in touch, please jump in. Hope to see you there.
Laura Minsk-Karellos about 1 month ago Great idea Lulu, but I can't find it :(
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Laura Minsk-Karellos It is Momalicious 2012, Laura.
Laura Minsk-Karellos about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Found it! Thank you :-) I actually like the Facebook format much easier to follow than this bulliten board. See you there! :-)
Michael Clifford 2 months ago A gin and tonic please, poured over ice straight from the freezer, and a very large slice of lemon. Cheers
Kathia G 2 months ago Pisco Sour for me please =)
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Kathia G Oooo, I had one of those a few years ago on a visit to Peru...I'll have a pisco sour too, please!
Kathia G 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton Let´s order some ceviche too and select Andean colors for our painting =)
paula J swett 2 months ago I have been trying to get here all day, as for me a wonderful pinot noir and a chance to talk with everyone
Candi Imming 2 months ago After work today I could go for a beer or margarita. From reading some other orders...I have new choices to consider. Still virtual.
14 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold 2 months ago I'm having major computer problems at home--and my iPad doesn't support this class. Right now my only access is at work--and that time is pretty limited. I can't wait to get my new laptop and spend some relaxed time at the Cedar Bar. I'm thinking a vodka martini with a twist.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago I was surprised that Haiku does not have full functionality on the iPad. Out here in Apple country (San Francisco) that news is a shock. iPad 3 comes out next week and Apple's market capitalization is over $500 billion now! I'll drink to that and order a dry martini, Bombay Sapphire gin, with a twist.
Penelope Rothfield 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight the new iPad comes out in 3 weeks? thanks for letting me know.... also...i like your taste in drinks....i also like dry martini's made with bombay gin, but with a giant olive....
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield The iPad 3 comes out next week. A big olive displaces too much of the gin in a glass of a given size (compared to a twist) but other than that...
Kathia G 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight How about jailbreaking the Ipad to watch the videos? No need to buy a new one. I know that you can get additional applications when doing those things. I have a jailbroken iphone and like it. BTW, the Armory Show is next week. Somebody from NY going?
Terry Lee 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight It's actually the fault of the ipad. Steve Jobs didn't like Adobe Flash so it doesn't work with the ipad. I run into this problem all the time. Believe it or not, the ipad is not perfect.
Kathia G 2 months ago in reply to Terry Lee Lorinda - Looking at your profile picture. It looks like a huge canvas. What did you paint? Talking about technology I´ll create one of these days a mixed media collage with all the obsolete cells and organizers I have at home (Palm VII, old cells, etc.) =)
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Kathia G Scale is an interesting topic that I hope we discuss in Studio Discussion Week 3. My profile picture is actually a photograph of little blue flags marking [sprinkler locations?] at a traffic island near Ocean Beach in San Francisco. The profile picture is cropped from a
15 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
larger photo. I do hope to use the image as inspiration in some future paintings.
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I a ended a lecture yesterday at Carnegie Mellon University by English ar st Rob Kesseler.His work involves images of plants ranging in size from whole plants to microscopic views of pollen. One of his methods is to juxtapose or intertwine views of the same plant over immense size ranges. Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich Very interesting. I'm also taken with the juxtaposition of the little blue flags with the weeds.
Candi Imming 2 months ago With this hangout and the class discussions I now have more threads to read in a day, but I like it. I now find myself actively looking to catch up on new posts here. Need to get that self-directed class wrapped up and completed. Anyone taking any of the other MOMA online classes..instructor-led or self-paced?
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Not yet...this is my first...do you recommend?
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton I really do like the one I am taking on Modern Art 1880-1945. I am finding I really prefer the video format and the story telling about the works and the artists, time period, etc.. Like having your own private tour. With instructor-led and a class you would even get more interaction, but I find I am ok doing the art history class alone. I wish that MOMA would do this for every exhibit, release a video after the show closed, and I could download it. I would even pay. That way I could see the show in some form, and get the inside perspective at the same time. I do like the catalogs, as I like to review them later. The videos are spoiling me.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming Great idea! It would make my MOMA membership more valuable to me since I don't live in NYC.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago For John Attachments:
16 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich 2 months ago Calli: Thanks for posting more of your artwork. My favorite is DSC00599. I like the color complexity and the palpable Pollock energy.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Thanks, John, I like that one, too! It's actually a 12' x 5' monster that I painted in England with an artist who goes by Suarez. I love his stuff so I went there last spring to learn what he knows. It didn't work - I'm still muddling along. :)
Kathia G 2 months ago "Pollock, Rothko, Kline, Guston, and Willem de Kooning abused alcohol, and Motherwell and Smith apparently also imbibed to excess, the scientists assert. Gorky and Rothko committed suicide; Pollock and Smith died in car crashes while driving, both under circumstances that may reflect suicidal intent." Why? Too much alcohol, link between mental illness and creativity? Too many visits to the Cedar Bar? I´ll order a coffee today!
Merren Booth 2 months ago Ah, but isn't there a legend that French writer Honore de Balzac died from caffeine overdose? He was a notorious black coffee drinker. However, I am "the kettle"...can't start my day without 16 oz. of Pike Place Roast (2 sugars, half and half)!
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago Part of the mythology concerning this generation of painters does include heavy drinking, smoking and other bad behavior. Just think that they are creating in a similar time period as the show Mad Men and those guys were drinking heavily as well! It seems that was part of the culture at the time. Although I don't know how anyone got anything done as I am such a lightweight!
paula J swett 2 months ago Sticking to coffee today as i need to get a lot of things accomplished. I am heading to NYC tomorrow and to my first visit at MOMA. Any suggestions of other galleries, art supplies, etc.??? I would appreciate any input as i rarely get to the city.
John Valentich 2 months ago There's “The Steins Collect” at the Met and the Armory Show of modern and contemporary are at Piers 92 and 94. Wish I could be in NYC...for a day or two.
17 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G about 1 month ago Hi Paula - I usually go to Utrecht (Soho) but there are 3 stores in the city. Hope you had a great time in NYC! http://www.utrechtart.com/stores
paula J swett about 1 month ago in reply to Kathia G Thanks for the link to Utrecht. I had an amazing time in the city and at MOMA. Wonderfu to spend lots of time with Newman's piece, to really look at the zips and to see the swipes he made to create the zips. I loved the first zip on the left, lots of secondary pattern created when you look closely at the palette knife markings. I am now loaded with paints and ready to try my hand with paint and zips.
Candi Imming 2 months ago At the bar for a respite from a mistake in pink. I should have stepped away last night, but I think I recovered today. Trying to decide if I will have a Big Bang Raj drink or a red beer. Bottoms up! :)
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Where have all the artists gone? Maybe here...very cool idea. http://www.dailymail.co.uk /news/article-2113934/Blue-sky-thinking-Disused-jets-U-S-Air-Force-graveyard-given-new-lease- life-worlds-best-graffiti-artists.html
Merren Booth about 1 month ago This is awesome! I'm going to show this to 5th grade when we do our graffiti project. Thanks for the link!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago A couple of artists are definitely leading the charge, but let's remember that today is just the midpoint day of the Barnett Newman week! I hope to photograph later today or tomorrow.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Merren...I wonder if you could do something like this to old toys, pots and pans, wagons, garbage cans, compost pail, buckets ...anything that has a metal or wooden surface. Might be pretty cool to do for something kid size. Course I do not know what kind of paint you can use.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Hey, Lorinda---glad to see you at the bar! That is why I posted that link to see if we could get some chatter going. Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing your Newman work. See you later, gator. Candi
18 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G about 1 month ago Hi Merren - Please share ideas about your classes with kids. My daughter paints even her clothes. What materials do you use with graffiti?
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Hi Kathia, I am doing graffiti for the first time this year with my 5th graders. We're taking them to NYC this year so hopefully they will see some "authentic" stuff! I want them to have an outsider artist experience while "keeping it G" as we say at my school. Our admin is supportive and loves role-playing and re-creating type learning experiences. Soooo, I have thought about using sidewalk chalk out on the playground bluetop. In the school, I am going to try Banksy-style stencils. He uses spray paint, but we must stay non-toxic and environmentally friendly. So I was going to have them either sponge paint through their stencils or use spray bottles as "air brushes". We're going to use tempera. I buy it by the gallon jug. And, if we don't work on the easy-to-wash-off- later-glass-windows (our school has huuuuuge windows everywhere, it's fabulous) then they will stencil onto paper and then hang it on the walls with plasti-tac. I'm planning to make paper stencils, maybe posterboard but probably my heaviest paper. I'd like to teach the kids how to use craft knives, but this year's group is a little high energy so we'll see what happens. I am not sure what you mean by painting clothes? If you want to know how I keep the kids (mostly) clean, I have denim aprons I bought through Dick Blick. They fit 5-13 year-olds pretty well. You should see the "apron train" we make with kinders to get them all tied on. Very cute! The older kids I tell them the aprons are always available and I'm not paying the dry cleaning bill. (Of course, I do remind them to get one every time we work with staining materials. I just don't nag them like I do the little 'uns.) If you mean what textile arts have I done, well, the seventh graders do a little silk painting--on silk scarves and on silk pre-stretched onto wire frames and the third graders have done gutta resist fabric painting on cotton muslin squares. I buy almost all my textile supplies from Dharma Trading Co. I'll order from Dick Blick only if it's the same item for cheaper. Dharma has the best quality fabric and clothing blanks. They have wonderful customer support too on the website and in real time (I can attest to that---called them one morning 45 min. before the class came in to ask a technical question about working with the silk paints and got the answer I needed).
19 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
20 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Love the pictures, Merren. Reminds me of my teaching days ... science...many years ago. I really liked working with kids. They keep you young.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Ain't that the truth?! My elementary science teachers were the best in the world...if I wasn't an artist I'd be a scientist. Or a scientific illustrator.
Kathia G about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks Merren! Graffiti with a sponge will be our next project. My daughter is in 3rd grade too. I usually mix a textile medium with my acrylics when she wants to paint her clothes (tshirts and leggings). I attached a couple of her creations. Definitely switching to Dharma for future textile´s projects. Love the lumiere paints on their web site. Lumiere paints would look so original with our abstract paintings... A new version of Newman and maybe a replacement for Pollock´s enamels? I haven´t seen metallics in the School of New York though...
Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Kathia G Those shirts are awesome! Have you heard about freezer paper stencils? it's great for working on fabric. There are plenty of tutorials on the net. Basically, you make a stencil on freezer paper and then iron it to the shirt. The coated side of the paper will stick temporarily to the fabric--long enough to put the paint on and well enough that there is little to no bleeding underneath. Its a one-time stencil use, but it works great for me. Share pics of the graffiti too!
21 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth I will. Thanks!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Here is an art blog that you might find of interest. Anyone ever been to this event? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edward-goldman/great-art-for-deep-pockets_b_1370878.html A female sculptor story... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/robin-antar-first-female- at-pop_n_1367119.html?ref=topbar
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Lorinda, I could not live with that first totem that you liked and I changed. So, I changed it again and wanted to know what you think. How do you feel about the two purple zips on either side of the middle one? Or anyone else. I do wish more people had time to chat and hang out at the bar...I hate drinking alone and talking to myself.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Yes, I do think this painting works. All the elements flip back and forth between figure and ground and I find it very exciting. The photograph is perhaps not as good as the photo of the first one I liked. And the 2 zips on the side of the central column look black on my monitor. Today I'm taking a day off after I post my Ryman, but unfortunately I have to clean the condo rather than hang out at the bar!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I think the first photo was over saturated to try and get the ground about right. I am finding it difficult to photograph this one true colors. Thanks for showing up and I appreciate the comments.
22 of 22 5/11/12 7:59 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 1: Classroom Discussion Michael Clifford 2 months ago Not sure if this is the right place but- How big is a size 40 brush in mm?
Cheers,
Mike
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Mike, yes this is exactly the right spot for that kind of question. Unfortunately brush sizes are notoriously inconsistent from company to company, but luckily for us it's not usually critical to have an exact size. A size 40 flat (or most any other brush except for a round) is usually about 2 inches, or 50mm. happy shopping!
Michael Clifford 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks Corey, It seems your going to be busy on this course! I have a few more questions, would you prefer I leave them until the appropriate week, or should I just ask them as they come up? Questions that are pending concern materials. Living in Vietnam I have a limited choice. There is a shop in Hanoi that sells art materials, but I'm afraid it's no Blicks. For example, they have 'lamp' black, but not the black colour suggested- will that do? Also, they have no 'zinc' white acrylic, only titanium. One problem I do have for this week is that the stretchers available are just pieces of wood that have been cut off at 45degree angles, not beveled or 'tongue and grooved.' and without keys . I don't really want to start woodworking- please advise. Perhaps having these limited choices, makes me think how readily would these materials have been back in 40s and 50s New York. Improvising will obviously be the key. There, I'm answering my own questions as I go along- the beauty of discussion boards! :) Also, because Amazon don't have the best service to Vietnam, could someone please scan the documents and put them in dropbox.com, google docs or some other document sharing website. I understand that a chapter of a book can be photocopied and used for educational purposes- and this course is definitely proving to be educational! Cheers,
Mike
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to Michael Clifford
1 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Hi Mike, interesting problems! If you get frustrated, just imagine yourself as Gaugin painting in Tahiti in 1895! Actually I do a lot of teaching in Southern Taiwan so I can relate.... Lamp black is fine, it's carbon based and is a rather warm black. Titanium white is also fine. It's more opaque and cooler than zinc white. Sounds like you'll be painting on strainers rather than stretchers. This isn't ideal but you'll be far from the first painter to do that! You may also consider stretching canvas over a solid support like a piece of Masonite or a board. Unfortunately the majority of PDFs of readings have been removed from the course. I find this extremely frustrating, but this reflects the museum's cautious reading of a rather ambiguous law concerning copyrights for education materials. ugh!
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Michael Clifford Would it be of any help to get the books and ship them directly to you? I would do that, if you like. Although I already did take a peek at the critique one and I am not sure how much I will use it. Candi
paula J swett 2 months ago Hello, Corey I just introduced myself on the other section. I am pretty nw to painting and after watching the tutorial for stretching canvas I am wondering what size stretcher sticks i should use. Or should i start with a certain size for next week and then see what would be best ? thanks Paula
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Paula, I would suggest working rather small for your initial painting. Stretcher bars between 1 and 2 feet would be good. Then once you get the hang of it, you can decided whether you'd like to scale up your paintings or not. Sometimes bigger is better, but sometimes less is more!
John Valentich 2 months ago On the "Week 1: Introduction to the New York School" page you mention a reading from Ralph Mayer's book but there's no link to it or indication of what exactly to read in the book.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi John, I'm very sorry for that, but unfortunately our PDFs were recently removed from this course for copyright reasons. I'm even more frustrated about this than you are!
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine OK. I can get the book from the library. What section did you want us to read?
2 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich 2 months ago In practice, what's the difference between linen and cotton canvas? How will a painting done on one differ from that done on the other? Are there advantages to working on one vs the other? I remember reading that Pollock preferred linen. Why? Thanks!
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago One huge difference between these materials is their appearance, especially if you plan to leave unpainted, unprimed areas of the support visible in your finished painting. As you probably have seen, linen tends to be a light brown color while cotton duck is often a warm peachy tone. Beyond that, the bigger differences are found between qualities of linens and cotton ducks, rather than between these types of textiles. Both may vary between being quite stable and being quite reactive to changes in temperature and humidity depending on the quality of their materials and processing. Both may also range from quite fine to quite heavy, although if you need an extremely heavy canvas for large surface area and volume of paint, cotton duck does come in weights that surpass that of linens. Cotton ducks also tend to be cheaper, although this is not always the case. In fact, Pollock changed his mind several times about supports depending on the color of his palette. As we'll see in several weeks, for him, the color was of principal importance. Stay tuned!
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for these details!
Kathia G 2 months ago Is there any tips you can give us when we plan to transport a canvas or if we are on vacations but want to bring our materials? Prime the canvas differently or stretch it after, etc,? BTW, did Pollock stretch his paintings after he finished them?
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago hola Kathia, rolling a canvas is never a good idea since it will usually eventually result in some kind of paint cracking, but even top museums and collectors have to resort to this at times for the transportation of large paintings. My advice for travel is just to work small! But otherwise you could prime the canvas after stretching it at your destination (not before stretching). If you roll a painting, always roll face out and try to roll it over a hard cylinder that is as wide as possible. Yep, Pollock painted unstretched and then cropped his paintings before stretching. More on this subject soon!
Merren Booth 2 months ago Hi Corey, in the stretching video you mentioned canvas and linen on a full board support. Are we going to work only on stretched canvases, or can we work that way as well? I have done a lot of watercolor paintings on Ampersand panels.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Marren, although the artists we study is this course predominantly worked on stretched canvases using stretcher bars, you're welcome to experiment and stretch canvas over
3 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
solid supports like Masonite, etc. This will have a noticeable effect on your brushwork, so you may want to try both ways to see what you prefer, and which painterly ideas are better suited to each type of stretching...
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I figured that the springiness of canvas was going to be important...I remember that was frustrating in college but I'm certainly willing to try it again! Thanks....
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I like the idea of trying masonite with canvas. I have always just prepared the surface of the masonite itself... Don't know why I never thought of that before! Thanks!
Elizabeth Wood 2 months ago Hello Corey
Can we use oil paint over gesso? I am ready to prime my canvas but was told by an artist I know that oil paint shouldn't go over acrylic gesso.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Elizabeth, you've gotten some strange advice! Oil over acrylic (priming or paint) is a 100% stable combination. The reverse is quite the opposite though, as you should never use acrylic over oils. The easiest way to remember this is that acrylic emulsions contain water, so when they dry, they leave tiny holes where the water evaporated. Oil uses these holes to hold on for good traction. On the other hand, oils dry through polymerization so they form a very slick film that not only has no holes for traction, but also has a hydrophobic (or greasy) tendency that repels water, and waterborne paints like acrylic emulsions.
Kathia G 2 months ago How many canvas panels should we prepare? I don´t want to have all done and maybe we´ll need to put them differently later.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago That's entirely up to you Kathia. Some weeks you might not paint a canvas, other weeks you might paint five!
Candi Imming 2 months ago HI Corey-- I know the point of this class is to learn these techniques, but I was wondering if there would ever be an assignment where we would be asked to do a mash-up of two or more artist styles? Or to take a style/technique and consider how we could expand on it or react to it? I suppose it could happen anyway, but was just curious about that aspect. Candi
4 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Candi, that's a very interesting idea, but there are no assignments per se in this course. Once we get cooking in the studio sections (week 3), our feedback will very likely lead us in directions similar to what you're proposing....so stay tuned! Taking another artist's work and making it your own is a powerful tool on any artist's palette. I call this using art history, and it's exactly what this course is all about!
Merren Booth 2 months ago Hello Corey, I just got the two books you recommended for the course. Would you tell me or post for the class what particular sections you think would be good to read? I will eventually work my way through both of them (it will be like reading Joyce's Ulysses, I think!). I have already read the introductions in both books. The explanation of paint was superb--I get a lot of of "what is it" questions from my students! The course has been excellent so far, and we haven't even started painting! I do miss the immediate give and take of the classroom, but my husband has been filling in happily for that on the commute home. And I think writing responses gives us more time to organize our arguments and thoughts. Thank you! Merren
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Merren, The Meyer text is really best used as a reference. Unfamiliar terms can be quickly clarified by consulting the appropriate chapter (ground, support, etc.). If you're interested in the history of painting materials, reading it cover to cover also makes for a fascinating read. The Landau book fortunately contains many texts relevant to our course. I suggest reading all artist's statements during the appropriate week. For example, you'll find two statements written by Newman beginning on page 135. During week 2, I suggest reading critical essays by Rosenberg and Greenberg beginning on page 189. Other critical essays of particular importance are Robert Rosenblum's "The Abstract Sublime" (pg 239) for both Newman and Rothko, and Allen Kaprow's "The Legacy of Jackson Pollock" (pg 181) for, you guessed it, Jack the dripper. For week 10, I strongly suggest reading TJ Clark's essay "In Defense of Abstract Expressionism" found on page 535. Besides them, almost all of the essays contained in the book are useful for our course, but I would start with those listed above. Happy reading!
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: Instead of stretching canvas on masonite or board, is it acceptable to simply "glew" a sheet of canvas to either of these surfaces with gesso or acrylic molding paste?
5 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Wil the end result be the same as stretching and then gessoing?
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich Hi John, although many artists take this approach, I advise against it since it is very difficult to reverse. I once worked on a painting by Chaim Soutine that was painted on canvas glued to stiff cardboard. It was left standing in a puddle in the collector's basement and mold grew all over the board and into the canvas. Reversing that was a huge job that would have been much easier had I been able to simply unstretch it!
Annie Hogan 2 months ago Hi Corey, not sure how many canvases we are supposed to make for week 1? I have made just one for now and would you like for us to upload a picture of this? Sorry if this has already been asked of you,
best Annie
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Annie, feel free to make as many or as few right now as you'd like. Definitely have at least one ready to go for Barnett Newman week (week 3). You may want to wait to learn about these artists in detail before choosing your dimensions, or you may want to do all the stretching now and select canvases for each week later. Entirely up to you! Yes, feel free to upload images of your canvases in the studio section if you'd like feedback on them. That section will become the "meat" of this course beginning in week 3. ENjoy the rest of your weekend, Corey
6 of 6 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 1: Studio Discussion Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Okay I'm jump in hello everyone my name is Lucy Godwin and I live in Vancouver BC Canada. I am a huge fan of MOMA and was lucky to see the De Kooning exhibition at Xmas in New York. LOVE LOVE LOVE the New York School (as I now how to refer to them - thanks teach!). However stretching and priming my own canvas. You gotta be kidding me, man! First there is no great cost savings, secondly how wants the bloody hassle and thirdly, I like to paint BIG. So I scrounge around the local thrift stores sometimes looking for large canvassses I can paint over, or there is a kitchen cabinet place down the road and in the back alley sometimes they have large cupboard doors or even doors that they are throwing out. So those live at my apartment waiting to become creations. Maybe there is some value to learning how to stretch your own canvases but if you add the cost of the canvas, the cost of the gesso, the cost of the stretchers I don't think that can compete with buying ready primed canvasses on sale. I always slap on a bunch of goop anyhow when I first get them. Love the concept of "the club". Oh, to live in New York. Try and get a curator or anyone involved in writing up the arts (I don't even think there is anyone locally as they are all free lance and you never see a write up) to come to a meeting of artists here!!! Love the idea but there we have an over supply of artists and media that just don't give a damm, and galleries that specalize in West Coast paintings or Group of Seven wannabes. I know I am off topic but I guess this week's topic doesn't move me, and I am sans smokes, strong coffee, scotch or whatever else the New York School had at hand. Cheers, Lucy.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Wow...so much to digest in just one post! Totally agree about priming one's own canvases...what's the point? But I do like stretching them myself. I like to paint big, too....really big....and stretching it myself gives me the option of picking just the right part of the painting to frame. Or to break the canvas up into smaller sizes. Or to frame the whole thing bigger than any stretcher bars I can buy. I guess it's the equivalent to cropping for a photographer.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Lulu, I couldn't disagree more! At least give it a shot! Buying a readymade canvas at the art store not only cuts you off from a personal relationship with the materials of the painting as an object and all of the potential creative outlets that it can provide in your development as a painter, but it also leaves you in the dark in terms of the material combinations that are so important in how your paintings both appear and age. If you're lucky, you'll find that your paints don't quite do what you want them to. And if you're unlucky, your paint will fall off of your commercially primed painting in sheets within a few decades since the supplier sealed the ground to make it more shiny and salable at the expense of its ability to hold paint. Unfortunately this has been the case with more than a couple supposedly reputable companies. On the bright side, they keep us conservators in business!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
1 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Ah a conservator! Corey, I hear you but may we agree to disagree. On the bright side, if my paint falls off the
canvas a hundred years from now, so be it. If my paintings are worth anything at that point, some dear conservator can conserve them eh! However I doubt if commercially primed canvasses could be sold en masse if they were of such poor quality and they are used by many artists, both amateur and professional. What is this fixation anyhow with paintings have to last forever? None of the great masters did, they all had to be restored. My forage into self priming (never mind the stretching) took place when I got the bright idea a few years ago of buying a canvas drop cloth such as painters (of walls!) use as I wanted to do a very large painting. For a 15ft x 12 ft canvas, unprimed, it was about $30. Great I thought. Yeah, right. First, find a place to actually lay it out where you can prime it. So off it went to a friend of mine's art studio where it sopped up massive quantities of gesso, till I said, screw this and we both started painting on it with whatever we had, including good old latex house paint. Long story made short, after the mess dried, I hauled it home and painted Vanilla Extract attached photo, in 48 hours of what was like labour with my artist friend "coaching" me to give birth over the phone. So given that it has a mixture of house paint, acrylics and goodness what else, I guess it will be falling to pieces come some years down the road. Thus far, it appears very healthy and it has been rolled up four times and manhandled so to speak. As to stretching it. Ha. Ha. Ha. I had it in an exhibition and the only way we figured out to hang it, was we tacked it directly to the wall ((on the unpainted perimeter) and then bought molding which I painted and then we framed it with the molding. I have neither the space nor the strength nor the tools nor the inclination to be building large frames. I believe that innovation will suffice if we lack the foregoing. Unspoken but it should be spoken is COST> Reality check here. Artists are known to be starving for a reason. To invest a huge amount in priming and building a large canvas is indeed an investment. Whatever can keep the cost down for me is a plus. Unless one is a known artist or can expect to sell within say a year or two,we who paint big have to consider all of this.
So my point is there are many ways to skin a cat so to speak, and one size does not fit all. I personally highly doubt that I will ever be streching and priming my own canvasses. Cheers and isn't it past your bedtime in New York. Raining and chilly here. Nite nite.
2 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Terry Lee 2 months ago I use both store bought and make your own canvases. The cost varies but is mostly about the same. Making my own canvas allows me to stretch a really good and sturdy suspension. I have come across some real junk in art stores. I have had paint fall off within a year and it is easier to puncture the store bought canvas by accident. If I have the time I will usually make my own.
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I like the colors and chaos of forms in Vanilla Extract! I see a lot of Basquiat but not too much Pollock in there. The skeleton motif is a provocative feature in many of your paintings. Nice job!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks John. It is an autobiographical painting.
Candi Imming 2 months ago I was not red hot about stretching canvas, either, until I talked to a friend of mine who is an artist. She convinced me of the importance of learning the whole package, so I am in to do it. Similar to photography, I think you need to understand the processes and how they can influence the end result. You can always take shortcuts later. Video looks helpful. We will see what happens when I do it and see if I feel the same way after I do a canvas stretch. Personally I am not into really big canvases. Not enough wall space. I already have a great deal of stuff, including art, in a pretty small house. Trying to figure out how and where I will handle the Pollack portion with my cat, Jake, in the picture. I am looking forward to this class. I have been taking the MOMA Modern Art 1880-1945 class alone, so I can already see a big difference with others involved. Lot more lively. :) Hopefully, I do not read like a goody two shoes on this topic.
Kathia G 2 months ago When I saw the topic about learning how to stretch a canvas, I was picturing myself taking the train to ask for help at the Moma! The video looks so easy... I need to put it in practice now. I´m frequently on the go and it´s not always easy to travel with a stretched canvas. Is there any technique where you paint before and you stretch it later?
3 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to Kathia G Yes, check out my response to your similar question in the other forum. In general, I'll get to all of the questions eventually (or at least I hope to!) so there's no need to post questions twice. Good luck and happy travels!
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago I like taking high resolution photos. But what do you call a manageable size to post?
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago hm, good question, you might try reposting that in the "Ask the Tech Team" forum under the "Troubleshooting" tab at the left of your screen. I think 2-3 megs should provide the necessary detail without impeding students' ability to download them, and taking detail shots is always a great idea too...
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Many sites restrict you to 5 MB files, but MOMA does not seem to do that. I already posted a file bigger than that for my profile picture. Flickr has a file size limit of 20 MB.
Laura Minsk-Karellos 2 months ago I just finished stretching the first set of canvases. I think I did ok, but how do I avoid or fix the fraying of the canvas?
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Laura, it's a good idea to pull off the loose threads before stretching, and then you can use a pair of scissors or a box cutter to make a clean edge. You can do the same after stretching, just be careful where you're cutting! If you want to be really precise, you can pull a thread out (bit by bit) from each of the four edges. Then you know exactly where to make a cut parallel to the weave pattern of the canvas. But only a crazy conservator would do that!
Laura Minsk-Karellos 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I am not a conservator, but I must be crazy because I actually did want to cut parallel to the weave pattern of the canvas but I didn't know how. Thank you, great idea! :-)
John Valentich 2 months ago I cut my canvas with pinking shears and this greatly reduced fraying. Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich I was thinking about doing the same thing, so I am glad to hear that helps. Now I need to find mine.
John Valentich 2 months ago Corey: In the video I seem to remember you talking about applying only one coat of gesso. I'm using
4 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Utrecht Acrylic Gesso. Utrecht recommends 3 coats, the first consis ng of 1 part water + 2 parts gesso. Utrecht gesso is pre y heavy, so I can't envision you ge ng away with one coat by using a heavier gesso. Is 3 coats overkill or will it obscure the canvas weave too much if that's something we want to keep visible? My canvas weave is 91 threads/in2. Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi John, while only one coat is necessary to reduce the absorbancy of the canvas, further coats will lower the absorbancy even more. However, you're correct in thinking that additional coats will reduce the visible pattern of the canvas weave. For this reason, Agnes Martin never applied more than two goats of priming to her canvases...
Merren Booth 2 months ago Okay I have stretched two canvases! The first one I used the staple gun my husband gave me....couldn't get hardly any of them to go in flat. I am going to have to nail them all down cause I sure ain't pullin' them out! I showed my husband, and he took me to the Home Depot to get a "lady stapler". That's it in the second photo. I tried the more traditional design in the store and the Easyshot brand (now in my hand size) is much easier to use! It only cost a dollar more than the traditional one. I also used pinking shears to cut my canvas. They sound pretty taut. Corey, do we need to put in the keys before or after we prime? Do we need to put in the keys at all, or should we wait and see if anything slackens?
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Nice work! I know some great painters who would blow a top at the term "lady stapler" though! I suggest adding keys after the canvas is stretched and primed. Just tap them in lightly and they will prevent the stretcher bars from shrinking inadvertently during handling. Overstretching will definitely cause cracks, either immediately or within a couple years, so go easy!
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Yeah, I know, I was thinking of Donkey's realization from the movie Shrek..."Oooohh. Ooh, you're a girl dragon!" If you say it in that way it's pretty funny. :-)
Laura Minsk-Karellos 2 months ago I had the same problem with the staples. The first staples I used were too large and they didn't go all the way through. They actually damaged the frame and I had to throw it out. I was able to use the same gun with smaller staples for the second canvas and it worked
5 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
out much better! :-)
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Thanks for the photos, Merren! Very helpful.
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton You're welcome!
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago in reply to Merren Booth I attended a lecture by a woman artist, forgot her name, years ago and I remember her telling the story that she was working on an installation in Japan and had to use the tools there for the simple reason bringing her own would be too costly. She was amazed that the tools fit better in her hand and felt lighter and easier to use. Tools in the US are made for larger hands and typically stronger bodies. Its all relative!
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Fascinating! My husband had two staplers, and both were too large for me. He is 6'6", and I am 4'11"!
Annie Hogan 2 months ago Corey, these kind of suck. the back is pretty messy and I shall attempt to be more in control of the materials in the future. I need to trim the cotton duck and make the edges less messy, and the staples. Its a new stapler and I hadn't used it before but that is no excuse! Here are my meagre efforts! best, Annie Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago No worries Annie, these are good first efforts and your attention to detail will mean that they'll get better in the future. Remember, there are plenty of beautiful paintings made on canvases that look ugly from the reverse! It's a nice square, planar surface with good even tension that is the prime concern.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
6 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I also had trouble getting the stapler to put the staples in tight and flat. Some did; some didn't. Is it O.K. to whack down (gently) with a hammer the staples that are not tight down on the canvas?
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight exactly, just whack 'em in!
dana len 2 months ago I really like my "Arrow Model JT-21M" staple gun. fits my hand and gets the job done! Attachments:
7 of 7 5/11/12 7:58 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 1: Why Paint Abstract? Candi Imming 2 months ago I think times exist when you want to express an idea, but you do not want to explicitly represent it. It is enough for you to know, but maybe not necessary for everyone to know. Perhaps a few friends who share the view. Subtle statement, but full of meaning. Feelings, for example--- humor, joy, hope,despair --- how would they look? In politics-- how could you represent "liberal" or "conservative"---would you use colors....would you use very loose actions versus very well defined geometric shapes? What would "progressive" look like? What would occupy or 99% look like? I have been thinking about these and how I might want to try to subtly represent them in a painting. I have experienced some frustrations that I used as a basis for creative paintings. I enjoyed the ability to vent, but also to share the work with others. Some who know the intent, while many others do not. So far I have used representational forms, so I am very interested in making more abstract efforts. I really do love color, so I also want to learn how to create abstracts that draw you in and suggest multiple interpretations. Not one only, right answer.
John Valentich 2 months ago I think depic on of an ar st's gestures on the canvas may at mes be more important to a work's meaning than color or shape. Isn't this the basis of the art in "ac on pain ng?" This form of expression wouldn't be possible, or as drama c, with representa onal pain ng. Addi onally, by combining gesture with color and form an ar st adds an addi onal language to their expressive vocabulary. Van Gogh may be the master and inspira on for this art form. Calli Shelton 2 months ago I hope I don't offend anyone here but, we're all adults, right? I feel the same way about abstract painting as I do about sex - it's an opportunity to feel without thinking. Maybe it's simpler than "the desire to express ideas - aesthetic, expressive, spiritual or political"....maybe the artists of the New York School were just tired of thinking... Just my 2 cents. :)
John Valentich 2 months ago Calli: My knowledge of modern art history is neither broad nor deep, but I can't think of any period in art when the painters themselves wrote more about the theory and cra of their work than the NYS. (Pollock being a major excep on.) Even surrealist painters relied on their literary pals for most of their manifestos etc. So, if anything, I feel the NYS over-intellectualized their work…un l the post-modernists came along (:-)! But then there's an ar st like Max Gimble who, inspired by Zen
1 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Buddhism, strives to put down paint with an "empty" mind. Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich Agreed John, although not quite on the pace set by the manifesto-driven avant-gardes of early 20th century Europe, the New York School produced a mountain of theoretical writing. This was certainly a bombastic and verbose lot! Calli's point is well taken too, since many of these artists (and Minimalist artists of the subsequent generation) felt that language couldn't possibly capture the essence of their work as they tried to purify painting of all references, from representation to personal emotion. As we'll come to find out in the coming weeks, there was an amazing diversity of intentions among this small, close-knit group of artists! But back to the issue of abstraction: does abstract painting allow for more direct expression than representational paintings? How about this painting, Ernst Ludwig Kirchner's Self Portrait as a Soldier of 1915?
Attachments:
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I feel a stronger response in my body, especially my arms and hands and legs, from viewing an abstract Kandinsky. But I have to admit that the cut off stump of an arm here is pretty gruesome and the relation between the 2 figures is provocative.
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine So, when you say abstract painting, you have a broad definition for "abstract", in use here, correct? It includes recognizable forms, as is the case in Kirchner's painting. I think of the "beheading of Holofernes by Judith" paintings done by several artists in earlier time periods. I take those as directly and graphically expressive in a representational form. I believe each painting style just offers a different way to do direct expression for an artist with some closer to looking like reality than others. The challenge I find in an abstract painting where I cannot find any recognizable form, is the answer to the question what the artist is trying to express or tell me.
Terry Lee 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I have always felt that art comes through us rather than from us. While most of my work is somewhat representational, I don't feel that is as pure as more abstract works can be. If we are channelers, is it noble to copy or borrow images as they already exist or should we create our own. The NY school artists faced this dilemma and provided us with the next leg in the linear projection of art.
2 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Abstraction allows the viewer to interpret more freely than a graphically rendered image. There is more freedom both for the artist and the viewer, atthough for many viewers it is an acquired taste I think. To me if you want realism, take a photo. Or maybe that's because I just cannot draw!
Merren Booth 2 months ago I love photgraphy and representational drawing and painting. I often work from my own photographs, because the photo captures something I want to remember, and then when I make the artwork I can express what caught my attention more directly--I can emphasize the color patterns, or heighten the play of light and dark, or the draw attention to rhythm of the interacting elements.
Merren Booth 2 months ago I think representational images express emotions and ideas just as well as abstracted ones. With abstracted imagery, one person can see red as an angry tantrum where another sees it as joyful exuberance (happens all the time in my classroom!) That ambiguity can be stimulating or frustrating to the viewer. My students certainly have the strongest opinions about modern art! A lot of times, I find they won't think very long about abstract or non-objective pieces. You have to stop and ask them questions before they will engage or think. Yet, they often have a very immediate emotional response as to whether or not they like what they see, and that often stays the same even after an extended discussion. I always wonder if the two World Wars and the Great Depression--with all the changes in people's individual lives and the changes to societies as a whole (politically, economically, culturally)--influenced these artists in their choice to paint abstractly. A rejection of the real because the real was so disturbing? Also it was very interesting to me to see inthe video how many of these artists moved through periods of representation. Does one need to be able to draw and paint representationally, does one need to study color theory and design, in order to become a good abstract artist? I have a friend who is an abstract artist working here and in Europe. She has had numerous solo and group shows since she graduated from college. I think there are plenty of patrons out there for all styles of art. It is a wonderful time to be an artist!
Elizabeth Wood 2 months ago I’m really struggling with this ques on and look forward to discovering some of the answers in this class. Clearly abstract pain ng had a lot of promise in the 1940s; indeed it changed the course of art history. What I’m struggling with is whether it can s ll be meaningful today. In 2006 the art cri c Peter Schjeldahl (The New Yorker) described the contemporary abstract painter Brice Marden as the ‘most profound abstract painter of the past 4 decades’. (He even gave instruc ons on how to approach Marden’s pain ngs when viewing.) I was lucky to be in New York and saw the exhibi on and although I tried hard I did not find his work moving nor profound. Brice Marden himself said ‘It’s hard to look at pain ngs. You have to be able to bring all sorts of things together in your mind, your imagina on, in your whole body.” I’d like to be able to do that and hope that by understanding abstract art be er, I will be able to. Michael Clifford 2 months ago I, like Elizabeth am struggling with this question. Where to begin and where to end? So I'm just
3 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
going to jump in here with some thoughts, please excuse my waffly tripe. Stone age man drew on the cave walls- it certainly looks abstract to us now, but I wonder if those cave artists would be able to 'read' an image on a smart phone today. Would they recognise a photograph of themselves hunting a mammouth? How do we see things- what informs us? How do we learn to see? How do we learn what, as Merren's students have shown, to see 'red'? Here in the East for example red is associated with luck, and in the West, danger. The difference is cultural. But what is culture? There was a lot of debate around culture, art and the psyche leading up to WW2 with the Frankfurt School. I think I agree with Merren that the NYC were indeed rejecting what had come before, a culture that had fallen into such a criminal inhumane abyss, but they were still continuing some kind of artistic legacy, a kind of theoretical continuum, trying to express not only the world around them built on all that had gone before, but also the world within by trying to further articulate this. Without being verbose about their paintings, surely the NYS would have got nowhere. In most cases, for me anyway, without any prior knowledge, most of the NYS's work is something 'that anyone could do'. (I suppose taking this course is an admission that that is not the case). I'm afraid without any background information, The self portrait as a soldier, it leaves me puzzled. I can only guess at what is meant to be portrayed. The missing hand and genitalia obviously played heavy on the artists mind. For me, a conversation is needed. (Oh, the joy of going to a gallery with a good friend!) This picture cannot be enjoyed without thinking in some way. I love Calli's idea of feeling without thinking. It reminds me of an interview I saw with the minimalist Agnes Martin, when she says she doesn't believe in any theories, when she says she doesn't think. I presume this what the artist John mentions, Max Gimlet, is doing with his 'empty mind'. See the Martin video here where she talks about how she 'turns her back on the world'. I think this post would have worked better as an action painting ;) I'm going back to the Cedar for another G&T Mike
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago When I think about abstract painting in the 20th century, I think about a few things. Breaking down the image (subject matter) to reveal the essence, a foundation of what comprises an image and Mondrian is a good example of that. [http://vr.theatre.ntu.edu.tw/fineart/painter-wt/mondrian /mondrian-1912x.jpg] I also think about the artist as practitioner and the materials, process and physical gestures of painting as the subject matter instead of the more classical themes of religion, politics, landscapes etc. There were also new materials, using house paint, acrylics and other methods of marking a mark that became an exploration. Using terms like feeling and not thinking are tricky because that feeds into the myth this group authored concerning their genius as absolute and having no history. Art is a practice, and depending upon if you were someone like Pollock who was less theoretical in his discussion of his work than say Newman or Reinhardt, this was their life's work -- that practice, that dedication and single mindedness is rarely without thought. What defines this era in art was many years of struggle and practice, thought and conversation as illustrated in the first lecture. I think abstraction is strongly in all representational painting prior to the 20th century. Painting is
4 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
a representation of a three dimensional world on a two dimensional plane. Painters had to invent ways to create that space using visual shorthand, tricks of light and dark. When those techniques are broken down, you can see how the shapes and colors were working to define that shape in order to create a better representation of reality. Abstract work and the practice of continuing to define art of a process, practice or subject is constantly changing as artists work with the materials that are being developed in their lifetime. No longer is art relegated to traditional materials and the exploration of how the artist interacts with materials will always have a relevance and be meaningful as a representation of the era they live in.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago For me non-representational painting does allow for more direct expression than representational painting. It also allows for a more direct, unmediated viewing experience. In the 1960's I jumped through the hoop summarized by the line _form equals content. Much has happened in the last 50 years to abrogate that point of view and yet I suspect that I remain an unreconstructed formalist. Does anybody else share my kinesthetic response to paintings?
Candi Imming 2 months ago I have to say, less than a week and we already sound like a group of artists with opinions. I LOVE IT! I never get to do this type of discussion. Keep it coming. Maybe we will become known as the Virtual School.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago absolutely! these are the type of conversations that would dominate discussions late into the night around the tables of The Club and Studio 35. So welcome to the club! It will be interesting to come back to this discussion toward the end of the course to see if any of our opinions about the potential of abstraction are in flux....
Kathia G 2 months ago
I think that breaking the “rules” of traditional art by turning into abstracts put together expressive, spiritual and political ideas. In 1940 new artists had the opportunity to shine without reinventing known art of perfect proportions. Even cave art was representational. With abstracts it was the first time that “nothing” meant something. For example, people usually stares at a Rothko or a Newman and questions if that is real art. It was the time for changes. We have the opportunity to know if it is really that easy to copy them now... And yes, I can see that abstracts are still very popular now. The crazier the better, same idea of breaking rules. Homes and apartments are following a minimalist trend in decoration, where an abstract is a focal point.
Penelope Rothfield 2 months ago This is a really interesting discussion. I guess i agree that the NY painters of the 1940s turned their backs on naturalistic or figurative painting, but does that necessarily mean that the works were not representational? I don't remember specifically any of the titles of Pollock's large abstractions, but i seem to remember that at least some of them (the titles) were pretty specific
5 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
and so that leads me to believe that actually modern abstract painters were often representational in that they were representing something specific through their painting. I think one of the defining features of the modern abstract painters was the way in which all of these artists were so different from each other. (of course I could be wrong--still learning.....) ABstraction must have allowed these artists the expression of their individuality--something that i think became really important at this time in history. i am not sure about this and so i am really looking forward to learning more about the question of what does abstraction allow
Annie Hogan 2 months ago I agree that it is an interesting discussion. I think representation itself was going through a big change during this period. What was representation and how representation itself was viewed before, was changing according to the social and political upheaval in Europe at that time. Semiotics and linguistics was a growing field and important to the way signs and symbols and language were being read.Important painters of the time were fleeing from Europe such as Albers who were also teachers. The thinking around representation of the figure was possibly not the most expressive, appropriate and immediate way of getting political or spiritual ideas across (through painting), while abstraction allowed the speed, the action, the immediacy, the color and the language around painting to change and this was reflected in the brushstroke (or lack of it), and the relationship to the tradition of painting and paint itself. I think another angle might be with the introduction of the camera and moving pictures, I think possibilities were opening up to how to discuss and interpret time, and how this can be viewed in relationship to the turning away from the figure and toward an inward re-thinking of existential philosophical ideas and this externalized in abstraction or semi-abstraction and the importance of the gesture/mark. Abstraction shared a common language (as being another way as important as representational painting ) that broke down barriers across culture that invigorated and challenged the status quo of tradition. An embracing of its (representation) opposite and with the re-reification of 'the artist' again to the status of activist/cultural commentator/shaman /intellectual, the personalities of the day such as Pollock and de Kooning must have been in heaven! The qualities of abstraction have persisted over time and this makes it relevant today as abstraction paintings/marks made by today's painters are not necessarily in opposition to the figure but I think it has become another language that painters can use to speak about important ideas. In my humble opinion, abstraction embodies all of the artist and none of the artist at the same time. Abstraction's legacy is felt today in much contemporary painting as seen in many galleries in chelsea.
Kathy Gold 2 months ago I'm sorry I'm late to participate in this discussion. My dog ate my first post.
I guess I love abstract art so much because it reduces the visual experience to a more visceral, non-verbal experience--without the distraction of a story, a moral, a point, etc., to intrude. There are abstract paintings which perhaps evoke a story or an emotion, and words may certainly be tacked onto the experience, but the words aren't necessary to the experience. I don't believe there can truly be a work of art without a subject, as the absence of a subject may indeed be the subject, but this all becomes a question of semantics and you could play endlessly with such questions until the men in white jackets take you away. I stand before an abstract painting and revel in the abstract elements which are a part of all works of art--figurative, representational, or any other label you want--the color relationships, the
6 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
value relationshps, the texture, the composition. The works of art that have survived over the centuries as "great works of art" survive because these fundamental abstract relationships are exquisite. The stories--the Madonna and Child, or the farmers working in fields, or the items in a still life--are almost extraneous to the experience, although of course they supplement the experience and one cannot help but be aware of them. There were other artists of the time who were equally skilled in figure drawing, chiaroscuro, perspective, etc., and who told the same stories, but their fundamental abstract relationships are simply not as stunning and they lose relevance over time. I love the directness and honesty of abstract art.
It is truly my favorite art to view. Even viewing Renaissance art, I find I am a bit more drawn to the works such as Giotto or Botticelli, or the pre-Raphaelites, where the emphasis is more on the colors and shapes than the virtuosity of the artist in rendering the illusion of three dimensions onto a two-dimensional plane.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago Yes, I have similar experiences and love abstract art above all. You have articulated what I meant in my post by _a direct unmediated viewing experience. The only thing I might question is the value-laden term "honesty." Can there be dishonest abstract art or honest representational art? Or does the concept even apply? Thanks for your post!
Kathy Gold 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Hi, Lorinda! I suppose by "honest" I meant that the painting stands alone--that it can be beautiful without manipulating emotions through sentimentality, propaganda, a reference to a beautiful object, etc. Maybe that's not the best word to describe that.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Kathy Gold Yes, I understand what you mean. Beautiful is another value-laden term that I try to avoid. Much ink has been spilled trying to define the term. But beyond that, I doubt that NY School painters (or many others who came later) were aiming for _beauty_ in any conventional sense. I agree that the painting should be able to stand alone without a lot of back story. Some people would not agree with that but I feel pretty strongly about it. I'm glad you think so too!
7 of 7 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 2: Classroom Discussion Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Hi Corey what an amazing course this is! Silly question but I cannot figure out how to log in to the course other than going through the original email I got from MOMA. Is there some more direct way to log in. THANKS for this wonderful course - I am in heaven or close to it. Lucy
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Lulu, glad to hear that you're having a blast here too! I login differently than you do, so I can't really help, but if you post that question in the technology issues forum, I'm sure that one of the tech wizards will be able to help you.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Okay many thanks. Is it okay here to ask more about non traditional paint mediums - I have used "pourable" acrylic house paint in quite a number of work, so I am thrilled that you spoke about this topic. I find that when I drip matte acrylic house paint, it dries so that it looks as though it can easily flake off. Do you think I'd get a different result with a high gloss acrylic house paint? In terms of trying to mix i.e. combine house paint colours on a canvas it does not seem possible. I guess that they are stand alone colours? I have not tried mixing house paint with acrylic medium but have you ever tried that? I have also used for "drip" paintings the little bottles of Crafters Acrylic paint. When that dries it is really flakable but it pours so nicely! Any idea what I could combine it with so that it would have a better sticking consistency? On the attached, the sort of khaki colour is the Crafters Acrylic and it is cracking and will drop off I am sure soon. I don't want to put a glaze on it. I did these some years ago experimenting during my Jack the Dripper phase! Many thanks Corey. xxx hugs from Vancouver Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Of course, no problem. The matte quality of most paints means that they are lean, or low in medium content, which makes them rather weak. It's also possible to add matting agents such as wax to well-bound paints to maintain strength while matting the surface out. Enamels may be acrylic, oil, alkyd, vinyl, and others. In other words, check the label because the word "enamel" doesn't tell you much. Acrylic enamels are fully compatible
1 of 3 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
with artist's acrylic emulsion paints. As for your older painting, I can't give any decent advice without seeing the paint. Might be worth looking for a local conservator?
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Your IT dept advises it's education.moma.com in case anyone else needs that info. They replied really fast! Wow.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago Lulu, I get an email from MOMA every day that says the course has new posts. Maybe you need to put in your email address in some log in location. I think I did something like that in the beginning but I don't remember what exactly. There were boxes to check as to how i wanted to be updated.
Michael Clifford 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Hello Lulu, Following Lorinda's advice, in order to get the email you need to subscribe. To do this click on "My Account" at the top of the page, and then click "preferences". This will bring you to a page with a list of the notifications you want. Just tick the boxes you want. I subscribe to them all, including the Cedar Bar as it's a good way of keeping up to date on what's going on on the course.
There is an introductory video in Week 1,
I hope this helps, Mike
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago Corey, I will need to compress week 2 and 3 together for this week. Are all the videos, instructions etc. available for week 3? --Thanks!
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago It sounds as if you will really busy for the next 2 weeks. In case you missed it, I posted my phone number for you to call so that we can get together when things are not so busy for you. I live in the city. My number is (415) 525-4632.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Lisa, yes all the videos are available for the entire course. Happy watching!
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Hi Lorinda. My schedule has been pretty packed this week. How about I give you a call sometime tomorrow and we can figure out the details. Thanks!
2 of 3 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich 2 months ago Corey: do you know of a Web app that enables you to input HSB , RGB or hexadecimal color values selected from a digital image using the Photoshop Color Picker and then outputs the tube color or color mix necessary to reproduce that color in paint? Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago ha! in fact that's an area that some of the leading color scientists are working on right now in multi-spectral imaging projects conducted by R.I.T., the National Galleries in D.C. and London. It seems like this will be possible, but it's extremely complicated since our eyes have different spectral responses to each pigment, not just each color. In other words, it's way more complicated than it seems! So don't hold your breath, but yes, I think such a program will be available in the next, say, 10 years or so.
Candi Imming 2 months ago Hi Corey-- I have looked and I cannot find the sources we were supposed to read by Albers and Hoffman to discuss them. Can you tell me what and where they are, please? Thanks. Candi
Merren Booth 2 months ago Yes, I second Candace's request. None of the resources links have any writings by either bloke, just bios and image galleries.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Yes, they've been removed for copyright reasons! doesn't seem fair to me either! The Albers text I hoped to offer is called "Interaction of Color" and the Hofmann text is called "Search for the Real." Both should be available on Amazon, etc.
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thank you Corey I found both texts on Amazon....The Albers in paperback is only $9 (as opposed to $155 for the full hardback-yikes!) so I will probably order that one. The Hoffman book is also available in pb but for $17 ($12 used) so I haven't decided yet.
Kathia G 2 months ago Jumped into some other weeks videos also. Very addictive and lots of information!
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago glad to hear it!
3 of 3 5/11/12 7:57 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 2: Studio Discussion Lulu Godwin 2 months ago As I started painting in acrylics, I have always been nervous of oils so this was a great opportunity to jump in an experiment. First, the blue is oil and the yellow is acrylic as I wanted to see if they and how they could interact. Discovered with oil that turpentine thinner sops into the canvas and that's that - you cannot move the paint around. However, the oil I was using is old and I thought it had dried up but once I added the linseed oil it came to life although I had to push it around the canvas really hard with a palette knife to break it out of it little pieces which you can still see in clumps on the canvas. So lesson one, for me, is to use the turpentine sparingly as I do not like that effect. I love the buttery consistency of the oil paint. So then I tried the yellow acrylic to see how it would interact with the oil. The messy green is the combo and I do not know if it will dry or how it will dry. then I tried dripping turpentine on the oil section part to see if it would make the oil paint run. Answer - no. Whereas you can muck about with acrylics if they are still wet by adding water and running it. I also liked the fact that I could take my palette knife and etch into both oil and acrylic. The oil is for sure more of a smooth feel but I am very familiar with acrylics so I feel more comfortable with that. A very useful exercise and thanks. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Nice start Lulu! As I think you can tell by now, I'm 100% into experimentation and never would want to be one to limit creativity, but the disastrous effects of mixing oil and acrylics have been well documented. So I hope you're ready to embrace changing paint over time! (or know some good conservators!) Interesting comment about the solvent soaking into the canvas. Did you prime or size he canvas? Some painters like Helen Frankenthaler love that effect, others cringe and prefer to work on a fully primed or sized support.
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Lulu: If you don't want do the whole pain ng in acrylic, why don't you paint the acrylic part first, let it thoroughly dry, and then do the oil part? Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Yes the canvas was already primed and as I am really not familiar with oils it sort of came as a shock how the paint thinner acted like water. The canvas just slurped it up. yes it was like watercolour effect which I never knew you could get that effect with oils so
1 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
it was very interesting. But impasto is my favourite - I love texture and the yummy buttery feel of the oil paint with the linseed was close to nirvana. In rewatching your video, you explain what happens when you mix oil with paint thinner - heh it gets thinner! that so now I understand how the oil is thinned, the equal of adding water to acrylic. I am so glad you are into experimentation - I did a painting with stainless steel paint a few years ago and thinking maybe to try that again next week for the layering stuff and see what happens. Re Every Girl In Line canvas - maybe I have lucked out but it seems to be drying. Could be that without realizing I actually did paint oil over acrylic or maybe this is a Painting Miracle! Also bee great if you would check Ask The Prof section for other questions about mucking about with paint when you have a moment, that I posted there for Your Brilliant Conservator Self to ponder.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich Yup that would have been the intelligent thing to do. But I was just interested to see what would happen if I tried to do a combo. For sure the white is oil and I did mix it with some acrylic colour which seems to be holding. What happens eventually - does it flake or break down or why is it not good to mix them> Next time, sans experiment, I will for sure do underpainting in acrylic and then my thicker impasto in oils on top. that effect was Simply Delicious!!!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine PS as I paint to loud hip hop music, that painting was done to and is entitled Every Girl In Line on the Way to the Bathroom - don't know who the song is by but it's quite a fun song
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin The answer to that is a chemical one, in that acrylic emulsions dry through evaporation while oils dry through polymerization. Translation: they don't mix!
Terry Lee 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin The paint will fall off the canvas before too long. I say this from experience :-))
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Terry Lee Yiikes ! good to know.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago
2 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Hi everyone As Corey knows, I jumped ahead a bit . I could not wait to mess about so I did this painting last week, to experiment with oil. It also combines oil and acrylic. You might be interested in what I discovered. The red and white is oil and everything else is acrylic. The acrylic has of course dried by now but the oil is still wet, something which I am not used to so I keep brushing up against it and getting globs of paint on me. However, the oil jumps out and maybe as it is still wet it looks much more juicy and yummy.The white oil paint looks much thicker than would an acrylic white paint and I like the way it keeps the brush strokes very well defined. I do not use acrylic medium with my acrylics as I do not like the transparency effect - I like my paint thick or thin, and not much in the middle. However I think that I need to experiment more with that and with mid tones of chroma as I gravitate towards high resolution colours, although this painting is a bit of an extreme not having much other than high resolution contrast colours. The black you see is taking charcoal and working the lines into the wet paint. LOVE this course, I willl try and work more in oils as I do really like the effect. Lucy Attachments:
Kathia G 2 months ago Hola Corey! I usually paint with acrylics so wanted to experiment other mediums covered this week (oil with lots of turpentine and enamel). The paintings are not at a refined stage as my intention was to compare mediums only. - On the red, blue, light blue one I used enamel and then put tapes to paint oil. The oil "line" is still wet. Quoting the word line because I didn´t achieve a perfect line using tapes. - The green canvas with black "lines" is also still wet. I only used oil mixed with turpentine on that one. - On the third one I used enamel and acrylic paint. That one is almost dry. I´m impatient so I prefer enamel and acrylic, but as the other ones need to be refined I can see the advantages of using oil. My questions after the exercises are: What medium accelerates the drying of oil? Also, is there a way to achieve a straight line painting on tape? I like to paint thick and used lots of turpentine to try the opposite (thin paint). Is it possible that I use too much turpentine? The green paint is very pale.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago nice work! we'll address making sharp lines next week so keep that question in your back pocket for now, but adding driers such as Japan Drier or Cobalt Drier are good ways to
3 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
speed the drying times of oils. Just a drop or two though, since more can cause cracking. I do not suggest mixing alkyd resins into your oil paints since I have seen disastrous results of these combinations, but many painters like how that medium also shortens drying periods. "Too much" turpentine is an aesthetic decision and is your call entirely. The only time where this could be problematic from a structural perspective is if you were working on an unprimed, unsized canvas and the turpentine allowed most of your medium to be wicked into the canvas, which could leave an underbound, very weak paint film behind.
John Valentich 2 months ago Corey: In the video you mention the use of cobalt as an oil drier. I've always used the alkyd Liquin to speed up drying. Are either of these agents better than the other or better for specific applications? One nice thing about Liquin is an impasto version which keeps oils tube-thick.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi John, see my response to Kathia above. I don't trust Liquin (an alkyd resin) when mixed with traditional oils, even though Windsor&Newton claims that they are entirely compatible. I've seen paintings only 10 years old that make me think strongly otherwise....To thicken your paint while working with cobalt driers, you might add in a dollop of megilp or thickened stand oil.
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for this valuable info!
John Valentich 2 months ago Lulu: You are quite the alchemist…mixing, stirring, waiting and hoping. You might be interested in James Elkins' book "What Painting Is" where he argues for a relation between painting and alchemy. Corey made an allusion to this connection in one of this week's videos. I've just started the book. Here's a sentence from p.2 that you may connect with: "Alchemists worked with viscid stews, with tacky drying films, with brittle skins of slag: in short they were concerned with the same range of half-fluids as painters and other artists." You can obtain PDFs of several chapters from the book here; http://www.jameselkins.com/#page27
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Thanks John I will track that down. FYI I also used olive oil to mix with oil paint on that painting which I have discovered does not dry. I find the oil paint texture is very pleasing and I am going to explore more and bite the bullet in terms of drying time. When you have worked with acrylics for years, oils will for sure takes some adaptation for me.
Merren Booth 2 months ago Hi everyone, I squeezed in a 30 minute painting session into my day....never used mediums before so I went scientific and tried several combinations. I used a canvas I bought from Aaron Bros. a couple of years ago--saving my handmade canvases for the good stuff starting week 3! I used an
4 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
assortment of acrylics from various past personal projects, and a half-inch flat bristle brush. I plan to stick with acrylic, since that is what my students would use. I am also thinking of using the Dick Blick student acrylic that I have in the classroom, again because that is what my students would use. There was a big difference working without any water or medium. The paint was stiff and stayed in place. I guess this paint is like toothpaste in body. I honestly do not see much visual difference between swatches with matte and gloss mediums unless I look at it from an angle. There is a shine to the gloss from that viewpoint. Maybe my ratio is wrong? I picked up the medium on my brush and then dipped into the paint. Should medium and paint be equal? Paint and water turned out to be the most matte of all. I don't see much color change with or without medium and water. The mediums and water definitely loosened up the paint, and the canvas shows through more in bottom two swatches. I started using less blue with each swatch, as it quickly overwhelmed the white. I brushed back and forth, but I admit to also using my fingers to try and smooth out the transitions! I also went from using one brush to two. I would have to fuss for a long time to get perfectly smooth, brushstroke free gradation. Should I use a softer brush? I already am quite impressed with the control of the color field painters! I still have room on the canvases for some more swatches. I will try again tomorrow.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Thanks for the nice description Merren, sounds like this will be a useful exercise for you. I agree with all of your observations, including a key one that using solvent can actually matte out your paint as it allows more of your medium to wick into the ground and/or support. Matte medium isn't all that matte unless you're using a ton of it. There is no recipe there, just understand that your paint will become more translucent as you add more medium as well. Your blended swatches of paint look good too, but if you continue on, try to make the gradations in color more gradual and continuous. Easier said than done!
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thank you Corey that all makes sense. Yes, I will work on the blending!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago I had asked the paint store down the street the same question re matte and gloss a few years ago. Their answer was it is all plastic and so it has a natural sheen - so even matte
5 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
will have a sheen. I like your blues.
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks...you know blue is the most popular color choice in my classroom--for pottery, for non-objective/abstract painting, for collage, etc. etc. I have to order extra in every medium we use!
Kathia G 2 months ago I was wondering if I can ask here about using diamond dust with acrylic paint. I´ve seen Russell Young´s paintings of Marilyn Monroe and Marlon Brando using sparkles (diamond dust).
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Sure Kathia. In the future, that kind of question goes in the classroom, not the studio. As far as I know, Warhol was the first to blend diamond dust into his paint in the 1960s. Actually, it's usually not diamond at all, but an inert silica that glitters similarly. Adding any inert powder into your paint film is fine, but just treat it like adding more pigment. In other words, at a certain point, additions of more dry powder will make your paint underbound, or too weak to form a paint film. These layers will crack and fall off, either immediately or within a few years.
paula J swett 2 months ago I plan to try out oils soon. I have no experience with oils so i stopped into my local art supply store and they said to use walnut oil instead of linseed oil and turps. He said less toxicity Wondering what you think before I buy the supplies? In addition he suggested using gamblin fast drying oils?????
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Paula, walnut oils are fine. In fact they yellow a bit less than linseed oil, but they do take longer to dry. The oils themselves are not the source of toxicity, but rather it's the solvent (i.e. turpentine) and occasionally dry pigments. I suggest using odorless mineral spirits which has a very very low toxicity. It should be fine unless you are extremely sensitive to solvent. "Fast drying oils" are actually alkyd paints. They're fine too, but I'm not confident about mixing them with oils.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Lucy the so called Alchemist tried olive oil as well with my oil paint. Newsflash - it's still wet! But it looks good enough to eat.... hmmmm. Edible art - has that been done recently?
6 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin nice! Actually de Kooning made great use of safflower oil....in his studio and presumably his kitchen!
marc brickman 2 months ago hi all, sorry to be a downer, but no where do you discuss the safety issues re: the solvents.. i have lost a few dear friends who were painters over the years to cancer.. i do have to believe that improper ventilation and disposal techniques were part of the reason. i am using the oils but on a very limited basis in a well ventilated area... again, sorry for the note but i think its important..
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Absolutely true Marc, and no need to apologize, safety concerns are very important. In fact, that's why I suggest using odorless mineral spirits (OMS) instead of stronger, traditional oil painting solvents like turpentine. While it isn't as satisfying to use due to its relatively weak ability to dissolve oils, it is definitely a safer way to go. As a conservator, I routinely use solvents that are much, much stronger than turpentine (awful stuff like xylenes, ethyl acetate, etc.) when necessary, but such solvents require the use of a respirator. Odorless mineral spirits have extremely low toxicity, but opening a window and keeping a lid on your container are always good ideas!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago That is why I started with and have stuck with acrylics. But the odourless thinners these days for oils - are they not okay? And not toxic?
dana len about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine How do you feel about Gamblin Gamsol Odorless Mineral Spirits? Gamblin claims that it is safer than most. How safe is it? Is it effective? I've never oil painted with solvent, looking forward to trying it out!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to dana len Hi Dana, I think that's a good product. However, they really jack up the price for something which is essentially the same as what you'll find at the hardware store. Just be sue it's odorless mineral spirits, since that has a much lower toxicity than typical mineral
7 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
spirits.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Hi Lulu, I don't think you have much use using OMS with acrylic emulsion paints, but that is the solvent that I suggest for working with oils. If you find that it's not strong enough for your painting needs, then you can bring out the big guns like turpentine, etc. Just be sure to work in a well ventilated area with stronger solvents...
dana len about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks Corey!
John Valentich 2 months ago Because of gesso's viscosity, I have to do a lot of brushing to get an even, thin coat that doesn't show bristle marks. Do you think it’s worth the effort to apply 2 coats of 2/3 dilute gesso (which is much easier to spread) if it ensures more uniform canvas coverage? This problem will be even more severe as I move to larger canvases. Alterna vely, should I use a trowel to spread a layer of full body gesso across the canvas before using a brush to even the layer and work it into the canvas? Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi John, sounds like you're using an artist grade (as opposed to student grade) primer. You can always add a bit of water if necessary, but I find it easier to continually stretch the wet priming layer our with a brush, and any unevenness can usually be very quickly sanded out with medium grade sandpaper. Either approach should get you to the same result though....
ALEX REVILLA 2 months ago Hi! Corey… how are you? How about your Weekend?
I have been asking if there is a level or measure to add to the mediums in acrylic paint so that does not lose grip on the canvas.
In previous weeks I was painting a work I did and applied acrylic paint mixed with much acrylic gel transparent and had reserved a portion of the picture with adhesive tape and remove it fell off a small part of the painting similar to the tape. I … ask if it was because I added too much medium to make the paint more transparent or not? ... however I have seen works like those of Spanish Tapies, which have a significant accumulation of paint and materials on the canvas and not come off ....
thanks for your help…
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Alex, yes everything is great here in Buenos Aires...sending some warm air your way! Interesting question. Adding acrylic medium should not weaken the strength of the paint film as long as you are using a good quality brand like Golden. You may have better luck removing your masking tape while the paint is still wet. Alternatively, using a weak
8 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
painter's tape (rather than masking tape) will reduce the ability of the tape to grab onto dry paint as you attempt to pull it off. Just the same, if you look closely at paintings by Stella, Tapies, and others, you will sometimes find tiny fragments of tape that are still stuck to the surface of the painting after all these years....
Michael Clifford 2 months ago Managed to set my studio this weekend- I haven't painted in this house before. I have commandeered the 'altar room' on the top floor until the weather picks up when I will then use the roof. Getting hold of a labled medium is difficult here and the linseed oil available comes in a used plastic water bottle. I mixed it with the titanium white and initially the mix had a definite yellow hue but that has been taken up by the paint. I then used the solvent I have which also comes out of an unlabled water bottle and did stink the whole house. I'm a little worried now about Marc's comments above- how dangerous is this stuff? I was expecting the thinned out oil to be more of a matte, and maybe it will be when it's properly dried. It's been 24 hours now and the medium oil is still very wet to the touch, the solvent less so but still wetter than I expected. Cleaning the brushes was also quite a task. It was very difficult to get all the black out. This, combined with the poisonous solvents and the smell, are making me realise the appeal of acrylics. Could this have also factored in to Agnes Martin's move from the one to the other I wonder?
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago The discipline needed with oils I found challenging i.e remembering to clean the brushes versus throwing them in water to soak. Also the hassle of drying time - as a long time acrylic painter, brushing up against the oil painting was a nuisance. Now I know why artists have to have studios. I paint out of my dining room which I have converted into a studio. Therefore I am at close quarters with my artwork and drying time is an issue with the oils. But I do LOVE the effect of them. The sheer buttery texture ..... yummmmm.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Interesting! Sounds like you're working with unrefined linseed oil, the kind of thing for protecting a wooden porch or furniture. That's ok here as well, but it may dry with a noticeable yellow cast. Mineral spirits come in many different varieties, but if yours smells very strong, it probably is. Is there an opportunity to work with these materials outside? or on the roof? it may be a better idea since you don't know exactly what type of mineral spirits you're being sold. In the case of Agnes Martin, I don't believe toxicity was a factor in her switch from oils to acrylics, but her aesthetic ideas greatly benefited from that switch.
dana len 2 months ago I have always used a bar of Ivory soap and water to clean the oil paint from my brushes. Any thoughts Corey?
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Really?? How interesting! That would be a much less toxic way than what I've been doing.
dana len 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton
9 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
yup! works great! I hold the bar of soap in one hand, swirling the brush on the soap under running water. When the brush is mostly clean I put the soap aside and swirl the brush in the palm of my hand, under running water until the soap is rinsed out. I'm wondering if there are any drawbacks to this method that I am not aware of?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago That's a good final step. Dish detergent works well too. I think you'll find that it's a lot of work if you don't work in a bit of solvent first though, and you may run the risk of leaving some oil in the center or bottom of the brush where the soap doesn't come in contact with the bristles. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi, Corey. When I painted with oils, I used Silicoil brush cleaning fluid with a Silicoil tank (basically a metal coil in the bottom of a glass jar with a lid). It was really effective at getting the paint off the brush, and the oil sludge would just settle to the bottom so that you could re-use this for a very long time. After getting the paint off with that, I would wash the brush using a bar of ivory soap. What do you think of the Silicoil products?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Kathy Gold Hi Kathy, the coil at the bottom of your solvent container is a good idea. I sometimes use a scouring pad sponge that has a plastic mesh around it for the same purpose. I don't know the Silicoil fluid you mention, is there an ingredient label on it? I googled it without finding much information on exactly what it is....
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Hello everyone, Here is my first exercise. Still trying to catch up. Kristen Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Nice start Kristen! I can see that you've gotten some good experience preparing tints of your colors. Now in the coming weeks, one challenge will be doing this with more subtlety by blending wet-in-wet. looking forward to seeing what comes next!
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Hi Corey, Thanks for the response. I didn't quite understand what you wanted us to do. I saw that
10 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
other students did different things than blocks of paint but I wasn't sure so I just played around with gradients of color. What did you mean by start at one side and pull the paint from the other side? If you are in New York, isn't this weather crazy. I am in DC and it must be about 75 degrees! Kristen
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to kristen lyn morrison No worries Kristen, no rights and wrongs here, but one way to approach this exercise is by making one continuous band of color that changes value at a constant rate from one end to the other. Wet-in-wet painting is the only tool for that job! What?? it's nice in NY in March?? That's like raining on my parade here in sunny Buenos Aires!!
John Valentich about 1 month ago Keeping Clean with Oils I work almost exclusively with oils. Here's my "work flow" for keeping me and my brushes clean and healthy: Before painting, coat hands with Invisible Glove (I've heard Avon Skin So Soft also works). This enables me to easily wash dried paint off hands without using any organic solvent. I set up the following next to my easel: 1) brush-cleaning jar filled with Turpenoid (odorless turpentine (but not non-toxic if you ingest a lot by drinking, inhaling or soaking your hands in it), 2) old telephone book with cover ripped off 3) thick rag held flat between the jar and phone book. To quickly get a lot of paint off a brush (eg. when switching colors) I wipe most of the paint onto a phone book page, swish brush in the cleaning jar and then wipe off excess Turpenoid on the rag. By getting rid of most of the paint on the phone book the Turpenoid goes a lot farther. If I'm quitting for the day, I wash Turpenoid and residual paint from brush bristles, ferrules and handles using "The Masters" hand soap in warm water.
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago Thanks for the post John. What a great use for an old telephone book! I think I'll try that! cheers, Annie
dana len about 1 month ago Thanks for the phonebook tip! will introduce this to my students!
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago I'm a bit late with this Corey, but thought I'd post it anyway. Image paint Ex. 1 is acrylic paint (left side), and acrylic paint with H2O (rt side) Image paint Ex 1B is Acrylic paint with gloss medium (rt side) and Acrylic paint with matte medium (left side). I didn't use much water to cut the paint, so to me, there is not that much difference in the 'look' of the paint swatch but on closer inspection I can see that the watered down one is 'thinner'.
11 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
The matte and gloss mediums are about the finish...this is more obvious.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago quite good Annie, and yes, I think the difference between medium and solvent additions would be much more apparent if you had gone a bit further with the water. Also, your perpendicular brushwork accentuates the shifts in value, so if you have another go at this exercise, you might keep your brushwork parallel to the direction of your gradation.
John Valentich about 1 month ago My "Stain" Painting
After seeing Cory's demo of creating very thin oils with solvent, I decided to try this method, as I typically work with very thick impasto. My painting is based on Helen Frankenthaler's "Mountains and Sea" which I had just seen in a book I was browsing. I didn't follow her method of using bare, un-gessoed canvas and my paints were probably not as dilute as those she used. I brushed on all the paint using a vertical canvas while she may have poured on some areas on a horizontal canvas. I may try this again the "right" way.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago nice! you're right John, Frankenthaler painted that work in oils on unsized, unprimed canvas, so the paints flow even more freely into the support than yours have. Also, she made use of sponges and rags in addition to brushes in that early work. When you see the painting in person, you'll notice "haloes" around each paint application where the oil has slowly been wicked out of the paint and into surrounding areas of canvas. She eliminated this issue in subsequent years when she switched to Magna, the initial acrylic solution paint. We'll have an opportunity to revisit these ideas when we get to Rothko week....
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: Thanks for the pointer about the use of sponges and rags. In Elderfield's book I noticed in some photos what looked like puddles of paint on Frankenthaler's working canvases. Is that a good indicator of just how much the paint needs to be thinned to
12 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
achieve her effects? Do I just let the canvas sit horizontally until the puddles of solvent evaporate? Roughly, how long will it take for haloes to develop? The haloes actually contain some pigment from the surrounding puddles, right? Am I correct in assuming Frankenthaler wanted and planned for the haloes, ie. they weren't purely accidental? Finally, in working with small canvases (say 30" X 30") do you think it's possible to attempt Frankenthaler's technique or will I just end up with one big puddle at the lowest point on the canvas?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Hi John, I've never tried her technique, but I think you're on the right track. Haloes will develop within the first 2-3 days while the medium is still quite wet. They were a necessary part of her early working technique, but one that she discarded when she switched to Magna paints. Leaving puddles is correct, and you can tilt the canvas to obtain some movement as in the works of Morris Louis. To keep a planar surface, be sure to stretch your canvas quite tautly, or do so over a solid support like Masonite. Good luck!!
13 of 13 5/11/12 7:56 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 2: German Number 1 or German Number 2? Merren Booth 2 months ago Here are the links to the pages on Amazon where the recommended readings are for sale: Albers http://www.amazon.com/Interaction-Color-Expanded-Josef-Albers/dp/0300115954 Hofmann http://www.amazon.com/Search-Real-Other-Essays-Hofmann/dp/026258008X /ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331124785&sr=1-5 From tooling around for free on the internet, I have come to the basic (and perhaps erroneous?) understanding that: Albers's work showed that the the perception of a color is affected by the other colors around it. Colors look differently--lighter, darker, more or less intense--when placed against other colors. Homage to the Square series explored this optical illusion. I have done a little of this with my first graders--mixing colors from the primaries with black and white and arranging them into a composition a la Vasarely. Hoffman's work and teaching showed that color can be used to create the illusion of depth/space rather than persepctive--his push and pull theory. So shapes and forms don't have to follow receding lines to the horizon. This correlates with what I learned in school about atmospheric perspective. Where I live you can see for yourself that the Blue Ridge mountains really do look bluer in the distance than the green landscape immediately around you. I can see how color could create atmospheric space in a non-objective painting where there are no clearly defined shapes or forms! Seems to me that Hoffman's theory is maybe an offshoot of the earlier color theorist Johannes Itten and also Albers? I am interested in using the ideas of both artists as I decide what to paint for this course. I guess Greenberg's formalism makes sense to me as an approach--though I will probably pick colors that are emotionally/psychologically important to me a la Rosenberg!
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Sounds like you're cooking up a nice soup of influences Merren, looking forward to having a taste! Thanks for posting those links too. Although Hofmann's theories are absolutely related to those of the Bauhaus (e.g. Itten, Albers, etc.), he actually started his first academy in 1915, 4 years before the founding of the Bauhaus!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Thanks for summarizing so brilliantly!
John Valentich 2 months ago So, is Hofmann's push-pull theory simply the application of atmospheric perspective to flat, non-objective forms...the use of color and texture to depict the illusion of space in an abstract painting?
1 of 2 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi John, I think that's an oversimplification, but you're on the right track. Hofmann is interested in what he class plasticity, or the ability of color alone to suggest the illusion of space either before or behind the picture plane. Sounds simple enough, but combine that with the real (haptic) texture of physical matter, and the psychological implications of certain colors, and things get wildly complex!
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago There is a wonderful Rothko painting here at SFMOMA. He makes a rectangle of blue come forward and a larger rectangle of red recede. So I agree that the concept of atmospheric perspective in NY School painting would be an oversimplification.
Candi Imming 2 months ago Watching Hans Hoffman documentary narrated by Robert DeNiro on Amazon Instant video --7 days for $ 4.99...right now. Works for me as a text replacement. Now if only there were one on Josef Albers. http://www.amazon.com/Hans-Hofmann-Artist-Teacher/dp/B005DNDUEW /ref=pd_luc_sim_01_04_t_lh This was excellent and I enjoyed the artists interviewed for it. It will get you psyched to paint in big, glorious color. For Hoffman, color defined form, as stated by others here. He had more than one style in his efforts, and I appreciate his openness to the many styles he saw in his students. Hans Hoffman as a teacher seemed a great gift, if you could handle those open critiques. I love his own work, especially the ones he did after he quit teaching. I really responded to the paintings shown in the video. Also, the mosaics he did like the elevator enclosure--totally awesome. I would have to say Hoffman is to me, what Pollock or de Kooning is to others in this class, but I know he is not considered part of the NY school. For me, he rocks, and I would have to say I rely on his push pull theory in the color decisions I make for many images I do, as well as trying to use the paint application/texture contribute to the image definition. I also am influenced by the combination of colors as they live together and sometimes have to change my vision and execution when I do not like what I have concocted ...to me an Albers influence. Which makes me think it is not one German over the other, but more of how you use both to create and execute your vision.
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Thanks for the tip Candace. I've never seen that, but I'll definitely check it out!
2 of 2 5/11/12 7:56 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 3 Classroom Discussion Lulu Godwin 2 months ago This Zip is deceptively simple. I had trouble with colour bleeding when I took the tape off wet. When I allowed the paint to dry first, when removing the tape it pulled" paint off. Hands off to Mr. Zip Newman because this is not that easy.!
Merren Booth 2 months ago Did you use regular masking tape or the blue-colored low-tack painter's tape? I tried two brands of the blue stuff, Shurtape and Scotch 3M and both worked great. I let the acrylic paint dry before removal. I did notice a little wrinkling in the tape when it got wet with paint. There was a little bleeding under, but I think that was because I didn't smooth it down enough in those spots.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth I think sometimes Newman liked to see a little bleeding. Not all of his zips are clean edged and perfect. Sometimes he liked to have 2 or more kinds of zips in one painting.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago absolutely! Newman took these so-called "bad techniques" or "mistakes" and made great creative use of them. I think that's a great strategy to keep going in the studio at all times, whether you're zipping or not!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight exactly! such narrow forms put a premium on the edge, and Newman took great care in varying them at every opportunity to allow them to play off of each other in the viewer's eye. Despite such a spare aesthetic vocabulary, no two zips are alike...
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago hi corey and everyone--i looked at the thumbnail images of Newman's work in the MoMA online collections and one of the thumbnails (no image) said In Memory of My Feelings, 1967 various artists. (sorry about the bold here--can't figure out how to go back to ordinary font....) well, my question is...do you know anything about In Memory of My Feelings? i love the title....but can't seem to find out what this refers to.... btw--i love the mel bochner comment about the woman covered in red quoted in the Barnett Newman introduction--I heard mel bochner (sp?) give a talk once and he was so funny! he's really smart too!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Penelope, actually In Memory of My Feelings is a poem by Frank O'Hara, one of the leading NY School poets as well as a curator at MoMA for many years. The edition you're referring to also contains prints by Newman and several other NY School painters. Unfortunately I've never seen it in the flesh so I can't tell you much else!
1 of 1 5/11/12 7:55 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 3 Studio Discussion Laura Minsk-Karellos about 1 month ago Ok, I know...I am a few weeks behind...I was taking a lot of cigerette breaks :-)
This is my attempt at Newman. I had a lot of fun with it and it actually did change and develop over the period of two weeks that I was working on it. I wanted to incorporate a lot of Newman's concepts (push & pull, ground vs. object, matt vs. glossy, smooth vs. brushy, etc.). It's hard to tell in the photograph, but the orangy color is actually a reflective coper color which I think creates tension with the flatness of the red and the blue. I also thought it was fun to separate the three canvases (the three are actually meant to go together) and play with the concept of the wall in the backgroung as a negative space.
Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago The time and attention show in the final work. I like the tryptych idea and it works beautifully.
Candi Imming 19 days ago Laura, I thought these were well thought out and executed for great visual effect. They work together and alone. Lovely idea on how to use them together.
Candi Imming 2 months ago First try at a zip. This photographic image was made with natural light. It looks a bit different with artificial light. Didn't use flash. I do not think you want to download the 8MB file. I could not see how I could delete the attachment and replace it with a smaller file. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 2 months ago Hi Candace, thanks for getting us rolling this week with a strong start. I find your composition to be quite dynamic as your color choice keeps the eye restlessly moving back and forth across your painting. However, I think you could push this even further. First in terms of color, since your lateral zips are too close together in color to really allow
1 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
them to compete for your optical attention. And second in terms of surface, since your colors are rather flat and without texture (although I like the flickering edges of your left zip very much). By varying opacity and surface gloss, and perhaps even with textural effects such as scratching and impasto, you'll allow each of these zones to gain their own character, which will encourage the eye to race around your painting even more than it already is. Using Photoshop to experiment with composition is a great idea too, and one that I'm sure Newman would have used if it was available to him. Also, in terms of our goals for the course, any answer is a good one to that question. We can range from direct copies, to "working in the style of", to taking another artist's ideas and making them very much our own. Fortunately for us, each of these options promises to open up multiple creative pathways forward. The trick is to be sensitive to them as they occur!
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine So I really need to figure out how to make the different areas "pop" more from one another, correct? Thanks for the suggestions and coaching. I think that opens it up on what else I can do. Candi
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I applied your advice on the pink one #3. I think it is more interesting now than it was before, although the zips do not look as straight...does that matter? Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming I rather like wavy red.
Merren Booth 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming I like the textures and the rhythm. The zips are a little slanted to my eye but that does not bother me because their edges are so active.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming I like the changes in the green and red zips in terms of variations in the color and the textures. If the two red and two green zips varied from each other a little more as I think it may create more tension in the negative space (between the zips) and add even more interest.
2 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
The push and pull of the green and red on the pick background is really nice. That green challenges the idea of warm colors being in the foreground as cool recede because the high chromatic value of the green really pushes them forward creating space between the green and the red zips.
The blue with gold and red is interesting in the struggle between the red line and the gold. Have you rotated the canvas so the red is vertical rather than horizontal? It may give you a different perspective on the relationship. The red feels as if it is blocking the gold zips from the foreground, like a fence of color.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Nice, this has a much more hand-made feel, which is neither a good or a bad thing. I like your variations in texture and gloss, but I think that slight variations in color (warm vs cool, slight value shifts, etc.) would also add more dynamism to the composition. And finally, try not to crop the edges of your paintings in your photographs. Don't forget, paintings are objects, not images!
Candi Imming 2 months ago Second zip. Image taken under artificial light. Used gold and bronze metallic paint for the zips. Attachments:
Candi Imming 2 months ago Third zip. Image taken under available daylight. Attachments:
3 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Newman zip#2 Modified. Too boring, so added red horizontal zip.
Lorinda Knight 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming I'm not very clear about how much we are supposed to try to imitate what the NY School painters did 60 years ago. But for me your image 4915 is closer to what Newman was doing. As I understand it, he tried to bring everything to the surface rather than having a deep space background. When you added the red horizontal stripe to the blue painting with the gold stripes, it accentuated the deep space of the blue even more and made it a background that we see through the bars of lighter color. It's a beautiful work but different. I haven't even tried my zips, so maybe I shouldn't be commenting!
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I am ok with comments, Lorinda. It opens up the discussion. I, too, am not really sure how close we need to emulate Newman, so I decided to do what I wanted to see. I find them a bit tame for my taste (I like figures), but I like doing them. I notice he does not have very many zips in a work (that I have seen) and I seem to like 3 or more in mine. I messed around on Powerpoint with combos of color and zips in many different colors to figure out what I might like to try before I ever did the 3rd painting. Still messing around, but I want to get wilder.
John Valentich 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming I like the addition of the red zip and I love the illusion of depth the variegated background
4 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
gives. I would say the goal of this course is to give us the tools and theories of NYS artists to enable us to do our own mashups.
Candi Imming 2 months ago in reply to John Valentich I am enjoying this discussion, because in the past I have questioned various instructors on what I should consider when I paint. What's my purpose? I finally decided to master the techniques and then apply them to ideas/visions I would like to see. Long way to say, I agree with you, John. If anyone else appreciates it, too, that's gravy for me. For example, I like baseball history, so I did 50+, 12 x 12 paintings of players, gloves, etc. and then I hang them very close together like a collage. I can always rearrange and add. Ken Burns' "Baseball" inspired this one winter. I think of my work office wall as a big refrigerator door and hang them up in the spring. People really enjoy it. Here is a fraction of them.
Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming Right on - love the red stripe. I found my first painting became an exercise in compositon using tapes as I found just the colour "blocking" boring. Love the way you have done the blue background as I also found have no texture or shading on mine really boring.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming Love your baseball images. and the question about "purpose" of painting - ie do you want to convey a message, do you do a painting for your own enjoyment, do you do a painting with a view to what is "commercial" and will sell, or do you do a painting as a spontaneous expression of some emotion.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Candi Imming I found it impossible to "replicate" Newman nd based on the few comments of Corey, I think it's okay if it leads us in other directions. However, I wanted to try and replicate just to see how it was done and how Newman managed to take something seemingly so simple and make some grand out of it. I did not succeed in replication! So I am going to come back to this exercise later after the course ends. As arfists, I think we beg borrow and steal and then adapt to our needs and styles. Throw it all in the blender and see what comes out. Picasso went around copying every artist he came across and thus developed an extraordinary range to his work. Yup well I am still working on that range!
5 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago The more I look at this the more I like it. I bet it would look SUPER DELUXE very large.
Lisa Ormerod 2 months ago I really enjoyed this exercise as I have 5 examples. They are all really small. I tried to use as many of the techniques that I responded to from the lecture and looking at his work. I had also planned on adding more color to Newman 1, but really like the luminosity of the blue. Newman-2, was an experiment with medium and texture (in the zip mostly). It is a Golden medium I had on hand that dried a lot quicker than I anticipated and enhanced the opacity of the Mars yellow which I liked. i created the zip in Newman-3a and 3b, by sanding out the zip from the ground which was a lot of fun, although I wish I had been a little more careful but feel like I also enjoy seeing the ghost of the structure of the stretcher bars. 3 a and b are the same painting before and after the application of color. I like both but feel I want to add more the the color version to create more interest in the burnt umber area but its oil so I need to wait!
Finally Newman-4, is an exercise in all white, titanium, zinc and allowing the white of the ground remain without covering it. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Hi Lisa particularly like the White ones - that is what I started off as my purpose but colour sidetracked me. These are minimalist but very pleasing I find. I wonder what they would look like really big. Also how did you find not having texture on the surface - that really bothered me - did you find just the simple colour was enough to satisfy you. They look really good here. Wondering if others would like to trade our emails and web sites so we can stay in touch after the class ends. Thinking also maybe we have a Giant Paint In by way of an annual gathering to meet each other - just throwing the idea out there. Any other ideas? Cheers
Calli Shelton 2 months ago Nice work, Lisa! I love 3a just the way it is (was), especially love the little flecks of black (?) at the edges of the zip. There's something almost B&W photographic about it. You've given me inspiration!
Merren Booth 2 months ago The zip technique in 3a and 3b is quite interesting and worth pursuing further. I like the color choice because I can focus on the surface effect without the distraction of a particular color.
6 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming 2 months ago Nice job, Lisa. I think 3b is very interesting and I like 4, as well. I think 4 is getting you ready for the next guy....who does everything in white.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin thanks! There is texture in the paint, its just subtle and easier to see in person. The "dirt" on the sides of 3a and b are left from the masking tape. Also there is quite a bit of texture from sanding down the "gesso" ground, again its not thick its just subtle. There is also slight texture to 3b as that was pained with a palette knife, but it wasn't built up very heavily. Even if you look at 2, there is a big difference between the surfaces of all four colors. The orange-yellow is heavy and smooth, the white zip was painted with a brush and knife, the alizerin on the right was the overall background color and is fairly thin and you can see the canvas peeking through here and there and then very hard to see in the photo is yellow on the right edge of the canvas which has areas of opacity and translucence. Also in 4, each white is treated differently with different paint color and mediums. I did try to emulate the varied techniques of Newman's that I really enjoy looking at. I also have a tendency to be quiet and subtle in my work. Perhaps the next few weeks will help me open up and really pile on the paint!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Wow, great work Lisa! I think you've understood Newman's approach quite well. I think you have paid great attention to issues of composition, color, and handling of edges, but I think you could extend this to the surface gloss as well. I wonder if the patchy backgrounds of some of your paintings distract from the emphatic nature of your more graphic applications of paint. One thing you probably realize is that it's difficult to paint a uniform surface even on paintings of this scale. Now imagine trying to pull that off on a painting as monumental as Vir Heroicus Sublimus! No small feat, that's for certain. Speaking of size and scale, I think your paintings are quite elegant, but I think they would also benefit from increased dimensions. Although Newmans started his career quite small circa 1946-47, they didn't stay that way for long. Our eyes can often swim within his larger canvases which ramps up the drama of the painterly effects you've already achieved. As for your sanding approach, this effect is quite interesting, but I am a little distracted by the mark from the edge of the stretcher as well. Stretching a canvas over Masonite or a similar solid support would eliminate this problem and would speed your sanding too...
Calli Shelton 2 months ago I took a little license with the assignment - I guess I'm not very good at following directions. :) This is acrylic on primed canvas. To me it needs something else...right now it feels unbalanced. Attachments:
7 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 2 months ago No, no, I like the way your shapes float. What bothers me is the contrast between the atmospheric ground and the flatly painted rectangles--I think it is too much of a difference.
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Merren Booth Yes, Merren, maybe that's what's bothering me, too. Thanks for the observation!
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Merren Booth I too like the floating misty tones in the main image and wonder if the bright yellow rectangles were also in tonal hues kinda to match or would that wash the whole thing out? Maybe just keep one the bright yellow and see what happens if you change the other two?
Calli Shelton 2 months ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Not sure what would happen but it's worth a try!
Candi Imming 2 months ago I like your idea, as I had thought about something like this, too. Incomplete zips. I did not try it, but did something else this afternoon. I got bogged down in that attempt, Abstract is not easy for me.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago no directions necessary!! I agree with Merren's comment that your forms have a starkly discrete relationship given how differently you've painted them, but that's not necessary a bad thing. Newman would likely complain that your pictorial surface is not unified, or that your painting seems unresolved. Later painters relished this kind of uncertainty and tensions. Googling Gerhard Richter's abstract paintings may set off some light bulbs, try it! Here is a good start. My advice is to contemplate which direction you want to take, and then go that way at top speed. In other words, if you want to bring some resolution back into your painting, find ways to better interrelate your figures and ground, either through color, texture, edge, or gloss. Alternatively, if you're after uncertainty and chaos, then don't stop where you have. Instead, identify the sources of conflict and then multiply them, both within the forms you've already painted and with additional sources of tension. Don't worry about going to far, it's always easy to quiet a painting down later, but you might want to turn the volume up to 11 now!
dana len about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
The video on the link Corey just shared is an absolute inspiration! I recommend NOT missing this...
8 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
http://www.gerhard-richter.com/videos/exhibitions-1/in-the-studio-53
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to dana len Thanks for calling attention to this video. Richter is one of my favorites. Interestingly, there is a review in yesterday's NYT about a new Richter documentary film that opens in NYC today: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/movies/gerhard-richter-painting- a-documentary.html?_r=1&emc=tnt&tntemail1=y
Calli Shelton 2 months ago This one is more conventional than my other attempt... Attachments:
Merren Booth 2 months ago here is my WIP....I am happy with the ground treatment and the position and thicknesses of the zips but not their color. I started with the buttery yellow, masked off the zips, and then spent several sessions on the green. I added matte medium to both colors and I worked in some other colors to the green which you can not see very well in this shot. Still working on the photography! Anyway, the yellow is too much. I want to remask the zips and change them to a different green. I think I will make it a yellow green. I want it to be higher value, just not so startling.
The second photo is my inspiration shot...a field of growing wheat at a farm museum we visited several years ago. Attachments:
Calli Shelton 2 months ago I agree, Merren. I like the ground and the zip placement but the yellow seems so opaque compared to the ground. Kind of the same issue I had with my non-conventional attempt. I think I'll take your advice and repaint my zips to something a little closer to the ground color.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago I too wrestled with yellow. I found it was such a "definite" colour for this exercise, it was hard to work around.
9 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming 2 months ago I know what you mean about paint mixing, I had severe issues with pink. I do like your Newman effort and your inspiration photo, too.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago I like the variation in the widths and the placement. The colors are very harmonious. Something to consider: enhance the yellow is to revisit one or two of the stripes with a transparent color, either the same yellow or a different yellow or a different color all together. Take some examples from Hoffman and Albers to play with space with color.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Merren, looks like you're off to an interesting start too! your inspiration makes me thing of Josef Albers classes - after months of wrestling with precise color exercises with colored paper, his last assignment is to turn your eye to nature by finding something - a leaf, a flower, a field - and then adopting its natural palette. For all of his left-brained approach, he really sought to sharpen the eye toward the amazing harmonies that are around us every day (....unless you're trapped in a concrete jungle like Manhattan!). I understand your self-criticism about your palette, but I think your color chord is a nice sonorous one. I wonder if the amount of yellow is the issue rather than the yellow itself. For my eye, the zip on the right is a little wide and dull and tends to flatten out the right edge of your work. Perhaps narrowing it from the right edge would help, or, as you suggest, shifting the hue towards green would help interrelate your figure and ground. As you probably already have observed, there are a wide array of yellows and greens in your source image that remain to be captured in your canvas.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi Corey, thanks! I take your point about the right hand zip. I will experiment. I just do not like the yellow, even after a few days break. I've got to adjust it. While I had the photo in mind, I actually did not look at it until after I finished the intial painting.! Ah, memory. I am also mulling over adding some flares to the zips.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago My intention was to do some type of white on white...however that did not happen! I went with acrylics for this as oils would take too long to dry. Turquoise underpainted the whole canvas. Then started "zipping' but very quickly got frustrated with everything being vertical stripes and the paint having no texture. So I abandoned the white on white and went with colour. I went back and looked at the video. This is more difificult to do than it seems. I got frustrated so it became an exercise in composition as my zips were placed to make something that ended up looking architectural. I never do this type of composition so that felt odd to me. The paint "globbed" when I pulled the tape off wet. Unusually I am not a perfectionist but the globs of black bother me as this now seems to be about compositon and I feel there needs to be
10 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
super precision to the lines and no fuzziness. To compensate for the lack of texture, I went back and painted over certain areas with a different colour in the "window". The imprecise lines still bothered me so I took a pen and inked in the blue lines and I feel I have to ink in the black edges to even that out. Also the white intruding onto the other areas is bothering me. All in all, I found this rather difficult and Mr. Zip - hands off to you Mr. Newman. Attachments:
Calli Shelton 2 months ago I really like this! So layered and angular. Agreed that it seems to cry out for precise edges - I used blue painter's tape instead of masking tape, making good contact along the edges of the tape with the dry layer of paint. Painting from tape onto canvas around all of the edges before filling in the zip seemed to help as well.
Merren Booth 2 months ago I agree that this was much more frustratingly fussy to execute than one might expect! That being said, I think you've taken it into a very interesting direction. I really like the different surface textures of the "windows". I enjoy looking at them individually and comparing them to one another. I think your composition would spark a lot of different associations from the viewer. "Lions Gate" makes me think of the one from Mycenae, but without the title I see it more as a painting about modern city structures.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Calli Shelton Ah painter's tape! Must try that and thanks Calli. This exercise screamed to me that I lack precision and patience.
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago in reply to Merren Booth Lions Gate is a bridge here in Vancouver. Now when I look at it again, I think of Georgia O'Keefe's brilliant architectural paintings of New York scrycrapers done from unusual angles. Heh I was in no way thinking about hers when I did this. This is all about learning isn't it. And experimenting. But it does make me think about if I went back and did something way bigger like hers with precise edges, what would the outcome be. Then I say, heh Lucy you do not have the PATIENCE!!! Know thine limitations woman.
11 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming 2 months ago I really like this one, Lulu. Nice variation application of the zip!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lulu, from what I've learned about you so far, this doesn't seem like you at all, but I'm very glad you pursued it so strongly! I agree that your composition recalls painterly architectural experiments dating back to the 20's including the works of O'Keefe, Joseph Stella, and Sheeler on this side of the pond, and Delaunay and the European Constructivist painters on the other side. One interesting direction to breathe life into the composition would be to try to inflate it - in other words, add some modeling to certain forms to give them a bit of volume as in the works of Leger. Obviously this is not a direction that Newman would likely explore, but the point here is to paint our way through art history, not only to learn about specific artists and how they may relate to our own work. Your use of angles and perspective take Newman back in time and should make us all realize one of his principal points of departure. Art history certainly isn't linear, instead it resembles a complex space of multiple types of connections, much like your painting!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine This was an accidental event due to the limitations I felt in the vertical zips. It really is not my style so thanks Corey for the "volume" tip but I dont' think I will be doing anything furhter with this.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i think it's really neat that you used ink pen in the painting--but instead of using it to fill in the black lines maybe you could try drawing with it over parts of the painting....how large is the painting (i wonder)? i really like the painting a lot--thanks for showing it even though the result was different from what you originally intended...
Lulu Godwin 2 months ago Today I revisited this exercise and tried to do another painting with more precision. Again, I found it quite difficult to do something that on the surface seems very simple. I started with bright yellow underpainting. I knew I wanted red and black but did not want it to end up looking like the colour of a poisonous snake, but I wanted it to look "African". At the end I was not happy with stripes of colour - boring - so I decided to "texturerize" the colums. I thought some white should be added (probably it is too WHITE!) so I semi mixed some and used a palette knife and kept the strokes like wiggly lines to make it more interesting. The far column is not black, it is a dark olive green but I am having trouble with photographing my colours to show up correctly. Kinda looks like a mess! Some paintings I fall in love with instantly, some I just have no clue and others I actively dislike. I really do not know where I stand on this one. It's a weird painting but when I tie it in with Africa as the subject matter, I feel better about it. Attachments:
12 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Calli Shelton 2 months ago I like the "zip within a zip" technique in this one. I can see the yellow ground behind the b&w, red and gray strips on the left side of painting. Intriguing idea...I wonder how many layers of strips I could build up on top of each other, always with a little of the background one showing behind...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I like the idea of the variety in the zip execution. Very interesting to see and a great idea, too. I did not need the name to enjoy the work, but I appreciate the name, Lulu. Are you a Hemmingway fan?
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming I am finding the longer I look at the two zip paintings I did and the others that other artists here have done, the more they grow on me. I am beginning to like this style but it's still a stretch as they are so outside my comfort zone. However I must confess I have become fixated on "clean" edges for mine and must fix them. I find that this style is bringing out the Nazi in me! Zips Must Conform!! Guess I will have to change the title as never thought about Hemingway - I have avoided him like the plague as he was such a misogynist and so I have never read anything by him. Other than that I am an avid reader.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin One thing I will say about Hemingway and Newman is that they use a minimal amount of language, paint and words, to communicate abstract and complex ideas. You have some much energy and passion in your examples! I think your last effort has some really interesting marks in the zips and the variety of approach is really great. You have no fear of experimenting! I think the challenge is limitation and quiet within Newman's structure. That is not to say the result is quiet but he says a lot with what appears to be little.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago hmmm... or... I think you're in good company here, and making a move to the present rather than your last painting, which took a glance in the rear view mirror!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi Corey does the white look weird globbed on top with visible application marks? It was too severe and boring I found with just the yellow, red and black.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
13 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
OMG Corey hanks for the link to Anselm Reyle - I had never heard of him before but I really like the painting this is linked to. His colours and textures make it way more intresting to this viewer. I think I am beginning to appreciate this Zip Thing!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I wouldn't worry about that, Lulu. You've taken a sharp turn away from Newman's spare brushwork - in fact, you barely detect even the faintest impasto in Newman's mature works - but I think you're making his ideas into your own, and as in Reyle's striped work, these zones become distinct areas of paint qualities rather than keeping the totality of the painting intact.
Candi Imming 2 months ago I think I need to go try the Newman thing again. So, here is #4. This time I used my palette knife to add paint to the zip, then carved the lines in to see the ground paint. The other efforts inspired this and I like seeing what others tried and executed. It all helps. Looking forward to seeing some more.
Newman #4 Totem
14 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Hi All, Here is part 2....the photo is not the best, but at least it gives everyone an idea of what I changed. I will try and work on it some more tomorrow. I narrowed the right hand zip, and I dabbled some medium rich color over them all. I also dragged the tip of the brush handle through the paint to create some linework. Maybe I should stick to one texture or the other? I like the zips more now, thy are not so stark. Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I really like the color combination and execution, as this seems a soothing image to me. It reminds me of water rushing over some ropes or lines.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thank you! I feel so much better about the zips. I think finding inspiration in nature will be a good way to compose my paintings for this class.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago this is really cool...kind of like "newman tie-dyed"
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield thank you!
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Second try. Here is my Barnett Newman. I planned to have the black zip on the far right but like it better on the left. This looks much better in real life. In these photos, I like the yellow to the left better. My canvass has a depression in the top left. Could I get rid of this by hammering in a pin? Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago I love the center blue zip. The broken edges look weathered.
15 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
As for the orientation, I think it is a matter of personal taste. The black line stops my eye and anchors its side of the art. So when it is on the right, it reads like a period at the end of a sentence. Reading left to right is very natural to me as a viewer. When the black is on the left, it acts like a starting gun, with the yellow zip in the lead of the race. Both work for me! Maybe you could attach two sets of hanging hardware and enjoy it in different orientations?!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kristin, this looks great! Your painting has a hard opacity and a dense impact, and your central blue zip has an interesting near value relationship with the ground as well as a very convincing gestural application. I wonder if the painting might be stronger with a little more variation between figure and ground, by perhaps slightly reducing the opacity of the ground for example. I think both orientations of your painting are strong, which recalls de Kooning's claim that a truly good composition should be equally good in a four orientations (just don't try looking at your painting on it's side). Interestingly, I've seen a couple Newman paintings where he reversed the orientation (i.e. up arrow painted on the reverse side but then crossed out and inverted). Also, try not to crop off those important edges of your painting in your photograph! This way, we'll have a better understanding of the relationships between your mark making and the edges of your support (which aren't visible in your photos).
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth I love the broken rough edged zips. Nice work!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Annie Hogan Thanks! I was talking to another teacher about the class....She said, "it's easy, right?". I said, "oh, No!" :-)
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago and yes, sorry I missed a question here. You can try gently keying out that corner of the canvas to see if you can reduce that dent. If that fails, you can try the ACME school of conservation trick...but don't tell anyone that a conservator told you to do this! You can try gently dampening the reverse of that dent and allowing it to tighten as it dries. While this often works, it can also cause catastrophic paint loss, so I would never recommend this on a painting of value, monetary or otherwise!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i prefer the black zip on the right....the center zip is great
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago Hi Corey, Here is my first try and my first ever painting. I used for inspiration a painting by Australian Indigenous women (snake dreaming) and so hence the colour palette. I tried different methods...mixing my own colours, using matte and gloss mediums and using the palette knife and then lots of overpainting! It does seem a little stilted when I see Candi's but its my first try
16 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
and I think I can afford to loosen up a whole lot.
Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Oh, no, I think they are wonderful! I like the rhythm across the canvas--very musical!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Annie, I like the look of your zips very much and I love your art source, too. I will tell you I am on my 4th revision of that pink one and am to the point where fuel for the fire sounds like a definite possibility.
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago I really like this, Annie! Great colors and interesting variations in tone and edges. Great job!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago First ever painting - WOW. You have a natural eye for colour and I like the way your zips are zipping with variety.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming No No No fuel for the fire please. Put it away for a month or two months and come back to it "cold" with different eyes.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago hey Annie, congratulations on your first ever painting!!! I think it's a remarkably good one for a first effort! Moving forward with this idea, I think your palette is quite strong based on your wide range of values (almost the full scale) and your narrow band of chroma (i.e. similar earthy, "impure" tones). For me, your composition falls off at the right edge where you have the largest band which also (at least to my eye) appears the least dynamic due to its relative lack of relationship to your other colors. If this were a ground color (i.e. present in other parts of the painting as a background), then I think it would work fine. However, since you have chosen to use a multitude of zips without a ground, this large zip doesn't pack the punch that I think it should. You might try overpainting this area, or alternatively bringing that color into other regions of the painting. Nonetheless, your attention to the physical qualities of paint and your brushwork are great, so keep it up! more good things to come.....
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
17 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Thanks for the feedback Corey; it was very thorough and helpful! I would agree, that area on the end of the painting needs activation. I tried my second painting and tried other methods of color mixing and palette knife scraping to create a freehand zip.
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Candi, I would agree with lulu...don't throw paintings away that don't work...the way I see it...is that you haven't arrived atyour solution to the problem yet....and you might need some time to marinate on the solution. Keep at it! Great fluidity with the zips. A
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Here is the new picture. Kristen Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Really like the piece and the color combo. Love that center zip.
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago nice one Kristen! I love your color choices!
Terry Lee about 1 month ago Hi All, Here's my Nauman. I made it with greens at first and thought it needed a hot zip. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Hi Terry I like this a lot. the pink is subtle yet strong.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Hi Terry, I like how you used that touch of pink with the greens. It makes me think of spring emerging.
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin
18 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Thank You!
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming It's a nice thought but it's raining for days here.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Yes, your pink looks great! Wish I had thought of that for my green one....I also like your green zip. It is very subtle, almost luminous.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Newman, not Nauman, although that would be a fun week too!! Interesting painting Terry, your palette is extremely strange and strong. You have set up two interesting color relationships that have next to nothing to do with another, one an exercise in a subtle near-value shift of hue, and another in a strong hue and value shift. The net effect is a painting that refuses to be resolved simply, one that is constantly pushing and pulling a tension around the green field, which is your picture plane. After identifying this interesting set of chromatic relationships, we can now see that this painting (or a series of paintings) could alternate the position, thickness, opacity, surface gloss toward compositions of a wide variety that belies the narrow range of creative variables. This approach is key to Newman's work, as well as that of Robert Ryman, who'll we'll be exploring in great detail next week..... A great effort here, but please don't crop off the edges of your painting in your photo, ouch!
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Oh, I remember now, “The true artist helps the world by revealing mystic truths".
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago it looks really effective...i like the simplicity of it....
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Thanks Penelope!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Terry Lee absolutely, I wouldn't be surprised if Newman was one of the artists that Nauman had in mind with that piece!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Even though we studied Albers and Hoffman this week, I decided to see if I could do a Newman in black and white. For me the challenge was to unite the field and zips into a single entity. I wanted the "dark matter" to assert itself along with the high contrast white zips. In studies I explored the width and placement of the zips but its current incarnation only came together on
19 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the canvas. I considered adding color but, after taking a break, I saw that I had done what I wanted to do. I am excited to explore more diverse texture with Ryman and color and brush strokes with DeKooning. Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I like the black and white approach, which provides an elegant looking result.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi. Now on to all white - but with more variation!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i like the title of your painting...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very elegant, Lorinda. I like how you've handled the edges of the zips so differently, one crystal clear and the other apparently on the threshold of our ability to focus. I think additional color would detract from the severe statement you've made, but I wonder if something more subtle like a shift in gloss or hue between the zips could be even more effective....
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for a perceptive comment. At first I thought maybe it was just the limitations of the photograph but I went back and looked at the painting and it's subtle but true in real life too. I think it's a function of the thin width of the zip as much as the edges of it. One thing that you may not be able to see are the few tiny pinpricks of primed canvas where the black paint didn't quite fully cover. At first I was annoyed by these but now I have accepted them. I did mix the black from Ultramarine Blue and Burnt Umber and I thought I was mixing the paint for the left section with more blue -- but apparently not enough!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I agree with the others who have said this is elegant. Love the simplicity of the black and white.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago My final Newman experiment based on what I wanted to explore. Attachments:
20 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago My second attempt at another zip painting. This time I used some of the white from the original gesso base and then mixed up some hot oranges and then experiemented with mixing colors and ended up with a brown where I went into it freehand with a palette knife
Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago So you made the zip by removing the paint from between two lines of tape? Clever!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Really like the color combo, Annie.
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Merren, yes, that's right. I removed the paint with a palette knife to create the zip...I've been looking at Newman's paintings closely and his zips aren't perfect with lots of his 'hand' in there...so I thought I'd give it a go with the palette knife as I think I have more 'control' over it!
Annie
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming
Thanks Candi...I was thinking about the red earth in Central Australia.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Annie - This feels very strong to me. I like the reference to the red earth. Very nice.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago where to begin....
i think i see now that the paintings Newman contained only 2 or 3 colors (i think...) and the
21 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
limited palette made his paintings successful. when i really looked at the first experiment i did (brown) the painting looked too much to me like a man's shirt and i think it was because i included too many different colored stripes taking all of the tension out of the painting i then decided to paint over quite a bit of the painting with raw umber to simplify and strengthen the painting, but when i added water to the raw umber to thin it and make it more spreadable, and then as i painted over previous zips (such as the brown-red one) the brush picked up the color underneath even though when i started putting the 2cd and 3rd coats on the 1st layer had been dry--making it finally impossible for me to cover the previous zips--i think the raw umber may be more transparent than i originally thought the raw umber granulated at one point--don't know why--i don't have much experience painting with acrylics... when i used ultramarine blue over the stainless steel, it took a lot of the warmth and glow out of it --the warmth and glow that you can see in the first zip which was kind of disappointing.... well...enough said i suppose....i really learned a lot from this experiment--so thanks!
Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago must do a better job of photographing the art in future....
Merren Booth about 1 month ago I agree with your limited palette conclusion. I really like the technique of the red zip and think you should use it again!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Hi Penelope. I really like looking at your "Men's Shirt"...it was interesting to me. I liked the color combo. Maybe remove the gray zip. I also know how tinkering goes and not always the way you would like, but it is a good way to learn. Candi
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago Penelope, I like the bleeding edges of the blue and yellow. There's a really nice touch!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Penelope - I think your theory about the limited palette is right. While I was doing my zips, I often felt like I was designing shirts. Your middle work is the most compelling to
22 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
me--I love the broad expanse in the middle. I also really like the interplay of the bleeding blue and yellow zips.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago hey Penelope, I can see you hit a coupe bumps in the road this week, but I think you're off to a nice start. I agree that your original concept weakened the force of each zip since there were perhaps too many, and with too many colors. However, Lulu showed above that multiple zips can make a strong statement....when the field is reduced! In fact, perhaps they're not even zips anymore at that point. So much of what makes Newman's zips work are the figure/ground relationships, which become progressively less dramatic with the addition of each subsequent zip. You might try using a hair drier to really dry out the underlay before continuing to lay on new colors. In fact, I imagine that the paint defect you encountered with the umber is because some of it (or an underlayer) was partially dry as you tried to continue to manipulate it. So are all of these works on steel? You're one step ahead of us as we're about to hear more about this approach in the context of Robert Ryman... p.s. agreed about your comments on photography. I think Newman is groaning somewhere looking at off square canvases and zips!
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago Penelope, I agree about the use of color. Really like your pieces.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago annie, candi, and merren--thanks so much for your comments--it's great to hear what you think...
John Valentich about 1 month ago Here's my Barnett Newman painting... Attachments:
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago John, nice work! I love the activity on the right which balances out the deep blue/black and the vibrancy of the red. I like the horizontal marks also..nicely composed. Well done. A
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Wow! The ground color is very moody and contrasts well with the purer zip colors. The blue zip is so cool! I did not think such depth could be achieved in a narrow space. The red zip really stands out in the photo but I guess that in real life the left-hand zip is
23 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
more obvious and helps to balance the composition?!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Hey, John, I am sure you would guess this would appeal to me and it does very much. Really like how you have composed and the color combo, too. Candi
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago John - I really like those. The lighter blue is very evocative. Very strong.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Interesting painting John! as you have no doubt noticed, the placement of your right zip on the edge of the painting makes its spatial relationship to the ground quite ambiguous. Are they both grounds? If not, which is the zip? and where does it stop? these questions don't require answers, but they do exchange some mystery at the expense of some direct pop in terms of figure/ground relationships. Personally, I like the subtlety of the whisper of a zip at the left, which is overshadowed by the more bombastic mark making on the right half of your canvas. Actually, I think my favorite composition might be the cropped shot of your 2nd detail. In that image, the two zips have a one-to-one relationship in most respects, but then one seems to be forming as the other dissolves...quite elegant!
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: Thanks for the crit of my painting. The painting has an allegorical statement behind it that, to a degree, dictates the color, placement and size of the zips and ground. Would Newman approve? He talks about the sublime in is work. Is he referring to an inherent sublimity of figure-ground relations (ie. zips for zips sake) or the capability of figure-ground relations to express the sublime of the consciousness or external world?
PS: I just received a good book about Newman's work: Barnett Newman by Thomas Hess. It's available on Amazon for just a few dollars. Maybe I'll find the answer to my question in there... some day (:-).
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Hi John - in short, yes. Newman absolutely believed that his use of the most spare aesthetic forms could communicate the most essential and sublime aspects of the human condition. heavy stuff! You certainly can't say he suffered from any lack of ambition!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Well, it has become obvious to me that I also need a class in digital photography and downloading photos, and probably a better camera. These photos are all from my iPhone, as my better camera is all of sudden not working. Please note that I actually did paint on rectangles with square corners, although you wouldn't know it from these photos. I had a lot of fun working with zips. I worked on a very small scale, and I think this type of painting requires a large canvas--but since you are just seeing them online you can pretend they
24 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
are gigantic canvases, which, of course, I stretched myself. Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Hi Kathy, I especially like #1 and #4, with #1 being my favorite. The color choices,the diverse paint application, and how you composed them I find visually very appealing to view. Candi
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi. (I notice you have chosen to go with Candi rather than Candace. Strippers unite!)
Merren Booth about 1 month ago #1 is wonderful! You handled the zips in a way I haven't seen before. I love the blue and the cream with the red for contrast!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Kathy Gold Yes, I was having flashbacks when addressed more formally, even in writing.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kathy, these paintings work nicely in relationship to our abstract vs. decoration discussion question this week. Newman is wincing in pain somewhere at the thought of Baroque mark-making enter his severe world of zips, but I love seeing the Oedipal complex in full effect! As I suggested about John's paintings above, I think you may have overdone it a bit by placing large zips at the edges of the canvas, which serve to inhibit the space rather than opening it up, but I enjoy the wild contrast of approaches that you feature in these paintings. I wonder what you have up your sleeve for the white monochrome canvasses of next week!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Love the first one - all fabulous - but the first one has luminosity. I am finding my camera or my computer is not reproducing the colours correctly. I think it is when I import them into PhotoShop to crop the photo, the colours get translated by PhotoShop and then they are not the right colours. But I love your colours and different way you have done the brown last one.
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Sorry all, I've been away and thought I had posted this entry already. I'm playing catch up now
25 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
but hope to get back up to speed soon. Mike Six years ago I made a series of my own 'zip' paintings, but they were not quite right. Seeing the masking tape being lifted on the preview video for this course convinced me to sign up and I haven't been disappointed. I thought Newman's 'Onement 1' would look better if the zip was confined to the work i.e. with both ends showing. With this in my mind I set about trying to do a limited zip. I chose to offset it so as not to 'push' into a deep crevasse. This was the first work I've ever done in Acrylic and I can see why it was finally preferred by Martin and Newman- no smell, quick drying and so easy to clean up after. I'm afraid I may have applied the paint too thickly and using a solvent made the brushing harder, not smoother and so brush strokes are far too evident for my liking. Also in pulling off the tape I also took some of the paint off leaving white specs at he top of the 'zip'. Still, it's very good to get on a canvas again and great to see what everyone is doing- keep them coming!
With masking tape still in place.
26 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
27 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Sounds excellent Michael, but I don't see an image. Can you try to upload it again?
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Oops! I've uploaded some pictures now. I liked the way taking the tape off and sticking it on the wall, away from the picture, forced the eyes to dart around. I also like to backlight some of my paintings because they do look so different. What do you think? Mike
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Michael Clifford Nice! these remind me of some of the subtle paintings by Ellsworth Kelly or Richard Tuttle. Backlighting is in interesting idea too. Conservators often use this technique to ascertain thicknesses and opacity of the paint film, but I'm not aware of any artists who exhibit their work that way. Sounds like an idea worth exploring to me!
28 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Push & Pull.
marc brickman about 1 month ago attached is the example... i can see i need to create another one that is my own thought. i apologize as my time the past 2 weeks has been short.
Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago I'm interested in knowing whether anyone devised a clever technique for creating very straight zips, both straight edges and straight zips relative to adjacent zips or the painting's edge, especially when the zips are very long (eg. 3 ft or more). Did anyone work at this scale? My longest zip was only 15". I used a T-square to guide my taping and it worked fairly well. However, I discovered that the store-bought stretched canvas was not perfectly square so that if narrow zips were positioned close to the canvas' edge the deviation might show. Having perfectly square frames is yet another good reason to stretch your own canvases!
29 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
paula J swett about 1 month ago Finally had a chance to paint a la newman. Here are the first 2 attempts. Attachments:
paula J swett about 1 month ago i like to use calligraphic marks in my textile work so i tried zip and ground with the following Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago wow! Newman meets Basquiat! I think Newman is rolling over in his grave once again, but I love how energetic your paintings are. Your graphic marks subtract from the pop of the figure/ground relationships of the zip because they create their own figure/ground relationships, but because you've left your ground white, I don't think that they conflict with each other too much. Instead, I see a wide range of bizarre relationships between your three distinct approaches to mark making. Your decision to crop your zip short in the 3rd painting is an interesting one, and I also wonder if you could explore overlapping the graphic marks and zips in less consistent ways to add more ambiguity to your space. Since you've sacrificed the clarity of space, why not keep going in that direction? These are very cool, nice work!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago wow!--very cool--the wider horizontal black marks look a lot like running stitches which i like a lot! maybe sometime you'll show us your textile work as well....( maybe we need a space just for showing "other work"...)
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield great idea! but for the sake of clarity, let's keep the "other work"' in the Cedar Bar please, unless it's directly related to the week's work of course.....
John Valentich about 1 month ago What did you use to make the calligraphic marks?
paula J swett about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich I used sharpie and zig pens
30 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine It may not matter to Paula, but my question is - is the ink from Sharpie pens archival? What does it do to the canvas? Or is it O.K. if it is on top of primer?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight It is definitely not archival. It usually fades to brown and then sometimes yellow over several decades.
marc brickman about 1 month ago worked on it some more last evening..pretty happy with this attempt. Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago its so interesting to see the different directions a lot of people are taking the zip idea. Marc, Im not absolutely sure of the boundaries of your painting. Is the painting limited to the red square in the photo or does it also include what looks like it might be a black background and the narrow yellow and black area on the right of the photo? i'm not really absolutely sure.... i really like the combination of pinks and reds in the painting....
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Marc, I really enjoy the depth you've created in the ground by layering the zips. I think the final opaque white zips hold it all together. I like their rough edges and incompleteness, too.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Marc, interesting work! Are you familiar with the paintings of Sean Scully? He's an NY painter of the 1980s, check him out, I bet you'll be interested in what you find. Interestingly, your work takes Newman in the direction of another one of the artists in our course - Frank Stella. Before Stella adopted his signature style (well, the first one anyway), he experimented with heavily applied, layered, orthogonal zips....much as you have. So you might take a peek ahead to that week's art history lecture, or just be sure to keep this canvas around for when we get there. I like the contrast between your rather crude (descriptive, not pejorative!) paint applications and the subtlety of the interplay between warm and cool colors, much dependent on your use of translucence in sharp contrast to the hard opacity of your white zips. Like early Stella or Scully, your painting declared these tensions rather than reaching any sort of resolution or conclusion. This approach often leads to brash and interesting paintings, and yours is no exception! ps the background of your image is quite distracting, so if you can, try to find a blank wall or shelf to photograph on.....
31 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
paula J swett about 1 month ago In this piece I cut out a writing from a piece of newsprint and glued to the canvas and tried different zips and rotations Attachments:
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago Sorry I'm running a little behind everyone, it's been a wildly busy few weeks (got into Columbia for my Masters in fiction writing, now in the fun process of begging them for help with financial aid).
Anyway, here's what I've been playing with, borrowing from Newman more so in pictorial or aesthetic theory than in painting practice. I really like Newman’s examination of the graphic relationships created through the infinite combinatory possibilities of the zip, and even more, the idea that a mark, such as his zip, which can be so easily and incorrectly dismissed as both simple and divisive, can in fact be not only incredibly complex, but also the feature that unites the composition.
That said, in my own work, I'm often more intrigued by the action of painting, especially the unintended surprises that result in that increased "action," when you control fewer and fewer variables. Below you'll see my composition, oriented in two different directions (I think it has a more dynamic feel when displayed vertically, with the drips flowing horizontally). The canvas is hand stretch cotton duck (a very heavy 12 oz), unprimed and unsized. I first layer is a combination of several washes of varying blue and green pigments, greatly diluted with mineral spirits, and allowed to wick into the canvas. On top of that the white layer is applied to various degrees of opacity (using zinc, titanium, and Gamblin's flake white replacement). I've pressed newspaper over that layer, which not only pulls some of the binder out, leaving a more matte paint film, but also leaves behind a mirror image of the newsprint in areas where the more opaque flake white has been applied very fat (straight out of the tube, no medium or solvent). In other areas, when the newspaper was removed, it's pulled with it the top layer of paint film, which reminds me of many of New York's older subway stations (read: the one's in poorer areas the city cares less about and hasn't spent the money to fix up) where you can see huge swatches of paint peeling off the walls and tunnels. Finally, the pink to orange transition was applied along the top in very thick, medium heavy layers, and I poured mineral spirits in streams along certain points to create my version of the zip (more like a drip).
I really like the idea of having some control, but not nearly as much as Newman asserted. I can choose the points to pour my solvent, and how much solvent to pour, and I'll have a rough idea of how long and wide the drips will be, and of how much pigment will be pulled down along the canvas with it, but I have little to no control over how those drips will meander, and how they'll interact with the raw canvas, wicking in where there has yet to be a sturdy paint film developed, playing with the various textures of the white paints caused by the removal of the newspaper, etc. I've yet to really decide whether or not I like this composition aesthetically (and if I'm going to use it more as a background to build something further), but it certainly was a fun experiment. Attachments:
32 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago And here a few detail shots from a much larger piece (64"x54") that I'm currently working on, showing where some of the ideas came from for my Newman inspired work. You'll see both newsprint into flake white replacement and the results of washing away pigment through the varying textures of white paint. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago very interesting approach Tyler. As you probably know, Newman was not trained as a painter and never explored such painterly ideas as you are. Alternatively, one could also explain away that choice as you suggested by reading Newman's graphic statements as requiring rigid control over his materials. I think the truth is probably somewhere in between, but it is quite interesting that you'll find drips in paintings by all of the painters we study in this course...except for Newman! Even Reinhardt left drips in his paintings in the early days... Instead, you've taken Newman in a direction related to one of the groups that came out of the NY School, and that's the Washington Color Field Painters, Morris Louis, Kenneth Noland, Helen Frankenthaler, etc. By voluntarily losing control over the materials and gradually gaining it back, your approach sacrifices rigid control for chance effects and the appearance of spontaneity. Pat Steir is another touchstone for your work as she has made great use of the vertical drip as a graphic mark. I enjoy how you've used this approach but have done so without the clarity that the painters mentioned above have, but rather have heavily worked your canvas in the manner of many of the NY School painters. Given the heavy surface and dense visual affects, I prefer your first painting to your second, since the spatial relationship between your forms lose focus. Of course you can bring this back at the 23rd hour, but I would begin thinking about the space of that canvas sooner rather than later. Happy painting!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse Hi Tyler do you have a photo of the entire Wasteland in Brooklyn? I am most interested to see the whole work.
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago Hi, Corey and Class! Well this is literal and its a bit cheesy (literally cheesy?), but here is my Barnett Newman go. I'm
33 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
calling it "west". but it is the three NYC subway lines that i frequented most as a single woman working and living in NYC, on the WEST side of the island, my home for seven years. the red was my most frequented line why it has the larger and 'flamed' zip style. that is the 2/3 line that I took to work for so many years. that color and that line have so much emotional resonance with me.
the blue is the C/D line which of course also runs parallel the orange F/V line next to Central Park. I tried to align the lines literally on the west side of the canvas and a similar to distance to what they are in real life, which is also vertically shaped as the island of manhattan. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://unlimitedstyle.net/content /wp-content/uploads/2010/12/NYC_Subway_Map.jpg&imgrefurl=http://unlimitedstyle.net /content/mta-new-york-city-subway-map/&h=1247&w=963&sz=388& tbnid=Hg5wlNVfz211qM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=116& prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmta%2Bnyc%2Bsubway%2Bmap%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du& zoom=1&q=mta+nyc+subway+map&usg=__r_3qV9Nux0Mpzv5AqQ4oKpubnUA=& sa=X&ei=9GFyT5X0O6Tm0QGd3YDmAQ&ved=0CCIQ9QEwBQ
the farthest west line is also flaming out in a western direction as you will notice.
I like the idea of 'west' because it is a symbol of new life and fresh beginnings, which of course NYC was to me in my youth.
on a totally technical side, my zips were a bloody mess and I don't know if that is a technique issue (I thought I waited for the paint to dry before pealing off the tape) or because the small size of the canvas allows everything to be seen whereas a larger canvas is more forgiving at a distance.
also, my tween daughter asked me an excellent question that I didn't quite know the answer to, why am I painting a white layer of acrylic paint on a perfectly clean white canvas. I couldn't really come up with a good answer except that it felt good to do it, and I thought a true painting had to start with a real layer of paint. guess I need to review the week 2 lectures.
this is my first ever painting, so please forgive my neophyte questions and comments!! Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago congrats on your 1st canvas Lauren, welcome to the club! I think this is a great first effort as your zips are quite clear and strong. I also agree about your use of white paint over a white ground. The ground is rather boring to look at since it's merely a foundation, but the next paint application will be far more intriguing due to its brushwork and surface, even if it does have the same color.
34 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
As you move forward, pay close attention to these subtle differences as they will quickly expand the creative repertoire that will be the source of all of your paintings to come! I think you're also correct about the scale of your painting. Those linear disruptions from pulling the tape may be a little too loud for your taste here, but transport them to a 6' canvas and you'll hardly even notice them...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago working in small scale, I really like your elongated canvas. I think it gives the zips more distance to live, so to speak. :-)
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I agree with Merren, I like the combination of the canvas size and shape with the zips you used on it.
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thank you for the feedback! I appreciate the advice about creating the foundation and the textures applied to one another. makes so much sense.
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming thanks Candi and Merren, for the feedback! I can't wait to try bigger canvas but for now I'm a bit chicken and the smaller canvases feel easier to control.
35 of 35 5/11/12 7:54 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 3: Abstract Painting vs. Decoration Merren Booth 2 months ago I think it is the viewer's attitude that defines abstract painting--that is on display in a private or public space--as either art or decoration. And a viewer's experience or education is critical to the conclusion he or she makes. In the gallery videos for Newman and Ryman, Corey shows how much thought and planning go into these works. He "lifts the veil", so to speak. I think a lot of people dismiss abstract art because they don't understand it. At the same time, there are plenty of informed viewers who feel art has to be representational to be unequivocally art. Is a bad painting of a landscape still better art than a great abstract? Compare http://www.book530.com/oilpaintingpage/Landscape/landscape-paintings-Italy571.html to http://hirshhorn.si.edu/visit/collection_object.asp?key=30&subkey=6088 To most people, I think the title can be quite helpful if the artist is trying to express some higher ideal or emotion in his work, like love or loss or freedom. If the title is more a label, like "No. 5" or "White", then one would need some more information like an artist's statement or essay by someone who has already studied the work. Sometimes, for younger viewers, museums display questions to prompt a thoughtful look. I suppose there is also the question of context. Is a wall treatment like Venetian plaster any different than the one of the brush techniques Ryman explored in his paintings? Technically, no. But there is a difference between painting four walls of a dining room and painting a canvas that, in the artwork's lifetime, will be hung on any number of walls. So I think it is also the creator's intention that also separates art from decoration. And as another thought, what would it be like to eat dinner in a room painted by Ryman? Would he even do it? Some people think living in a Frank Lloyd Wright house is like living in a work of art, because he insisted on creative control over elements like furniture and carpets as well as architecture. Has anyone in this class created a space in their home as a livable work of art? I have been trying to choose a color for my art room, and after making several test swatches on the walls, I began to see it as a work-in-progress. Now I am toying with just buying more paint sample jars and finishing the composition! Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i recommend painting one wall of your art room cobalt blue and the other three white. Dorothea Rockburne said in an interview that she painted her studio indigo blue and loves it. it's really a personal thing, i think...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield
1 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
That is a neat idea! Thank you!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago "Abstract intellectual content" means to me that the person who created the effort had an idea they wanted to realize or see. It had meaning to them, either to specifically depict some thing or celebrate the experience of creating an object. The viewing experience, the other part of the equation, will depend upon what each viewer brings with them, including their level of knowledge and openness to diversity in ideas visualized. The viewer knows the creator had an intent. The creator will never know all of the viewers' reactions and all viewers might not know the creator's intent, but on each side of the equation there is a brain thinking and evaluating the effort. Each evaluation will be unique and provide impact in some way. The creator makes the first move, but the viewers keep the creative impact rippling through time. I do not think it matters if it is fine art or decorative arts or a tool, the curiosity of human beings makes us find meaning and appreciation in diverse items and ways.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Yes for me having Corey "lifting the veil" worked much better, really twigged my interest and made me fully appreciate and understand this artist, versus reading an academic dissertation written in Art Speak. When visiting MOMA, I am always struck by the scale of certain paintings. In a book, the images are all more or less the same size, and then you come up against something Live and In Colour and it's maybe 30 ft x 40 ft and I get a visceral reaction. To me,Zip paintings would look wonderful on a large scale to get the full impact. Otherwise they run the risk of looking like wrapping paper.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago pardon me..Computer is having issues! I can't delete this post but it is the worng place, so I have deleted the text.
Just so this space is not totally wasted...one of my husbands favorite modern art works is the Stations of the Cross room at the NGA. For him, it is all about being in the space surrounded by the art works.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago FYI, if you ever want to delete a post, just write that in the body of your post and I'll delete it for you. (yes, I'm that powerful!!)
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago the question of what differentiates abstract painting painting from decoration or ornament is a hard one to answer. I suppose an abstract expressionist painting is a visual expression of an idea or feeling. A decorative painting is one which refers to no ideas or feelings. (as someone i think already mentioned, abstract paintings demand a lot more from the viewer than figurative paintings). I don't think that a work of art should hang in a home or in a corporative office because in those environments people treat the work as if it were in fact decorative and not a work of art at all. One shouldn't think of a work of art as something that needs to "go with" other pieces of furniture
2 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
or the paint on the wall--that way of viewing art degrades the work --the painting might as well be an ashtray or a pillow. --- "an accent"-- Also art in homes or offices are basically ignored--people just walk around in an unconscious way, eating, talking about whatever....But what does this mean for contemporary painting which is intended to relate in some way to the space it is placed in (exhibited)? don't know....A painting hung on a wall at MoMA demands our attention. Actually i think most people refer to a painting as "decorative" when they really mean it's a "bad" painting. Yet I love decoration or ornamentation in the paintings of Gustav Klimt and Peter Doig--not abstract painters for sure, but I don't mind if they're decorative--i love those paintings!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago I agree with Newman that abstract paintings carry intellectual content. I disagree strongly with the statement that people treat a work of art in a home or office as decoration just because of its location. When we moved into our condo in San Francisco, I installed our works of art first and then bought and installed furniture as secondary. It's true that I don't look at each and every work every day but I do so often enough that I live with them in an intimate way. I can't do that with paintings at MOMA or even at SFMOMA. Of course it's also true that the works at MOMA demand our attention - although studies show that on average each visitor devotes approximately 15 seconds (or whatever the exact number is) when walking through a museum. The quality level of the works at MOMA is no doubt higher than our modest collection but that's another issue!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I know a lot of people who live dynamically with their artworks, but it is unfortunately very true that abstract art has been commandeered for interior decoration. There was a time when (ahem) I watched a lot of HGTV. I can't tell you how often I saw the hosts and homeowners on the shows created "abstract art"--between only two commercial breaks!--to decorate the new space. And if you go to a Michael's or Joanne's (craft and art supply big box stores) you can see a slew of stuff in the framing section ready to hang above your blue couch or on your peach wall.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I think this question is dated. (I don't mean you, Corey--I mean the discussion art theorists were having at the time.) At the time, the New York School paintings were shocking and challenged notions of what "art" is. Those paintings are not shocking any more--they have long ago been accepted into the mainstream--and yet here they are--still loved, still profound, still meaningful, still resonating. So there is something else at work there rather than their merit coming from pushing the boundaries of avant garde. You have to define the terms. It seems to me that in this context "decorative" is a pejorative word. I don't think it is necessarily negative to be decorative. Decorative, I suppose, is something that augments something else. So if something is "merely decorative" that would mean it has no value by itself, but only has value as it augments something else (as those paintings Merren refers to on the HGTV shows which provide a "note of color" in a room, but viewed solely by themselves are empty).
3 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I don't think there is too much new anybody can do these days with paint on canvas. But I still love paint on canvas. And I still love works of art that can be on the wall in my living room. And perhaps be decorative as well. Figurative and representational art can be merely decorative. Abstract art can be merely decorative. Figurative and representational art can be profound. Abstract art can be profound. I think it is a mistake to think one form is somehow more significant than the other. The question to me is more what has integrity. What work reaches beyond my day-to-day to take me to a place that is challenging or provocative or sublime.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Very good post. Thank you!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Thanks, Lorinda! It is a discussion which intrigues me.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Agreed! One could argue that the great masters for instance Michaelangelo painted "decorative" paintings i.e. the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Most religious art created during the Renaissance was not only to "worship god" but to decorate churches and inspire (and sometimes terrify!) the peasants who could not read or write. So the "decorations" had to tell a story. They were also great works of art but one of their purposes was to be decorative I would say. What is decorative one era may become art in another, or then again it may become tacky later on. Time marches on and our tastes change and develop.
marc brickman about 1 month ago all about perception.. especially in this time.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago i just have been to about 6 museums in the last week between here (SF) and LA. At the Legion of Honor in SF there is a show called the Cult of Beauty http://legionofhonor.famsf.org/legion /exhibitions/cult-beauty-victorian-avant-garde-1860-1900 focusing on British Aesthetic movement. What was considered decorative and art then, WIlliam Morris designs, wallpaper along with painting by Turner, was very threatening to an established culture at the time, even established artists within their own circles disputed the veracity of especially Turner's art form. Being an aesthete was in fact avante garde. The "Peacock Room" which is at the Freer in DC, was radical in its time and the wallpapers and decorative motifs used in interior design of the time. I was also at the Getty Center, where there was an exhibit of Illuminated manuscripts, which may be considered decorative in the way they are illustrated however, some of the pages have unrelated, or seemingly so, images in the margins. I saw pages illustrated with games, monkeys, people, beer brewing etc. All very beautiful, not illustrating the story which was usually religious, the ones I saw anyway, but told of the life that people were living at the time. My point being, what once was considered radical, avant garde, even offensive has been integrated into society and now is decorative. And what may be considered decorative has its
4 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
story to tell of society. Each has a perspective of society and are creations of their time. In the same sense that the work of the New York School gets co-opted into a technique used in an interior design show. Newman's use of the phrase "abstract intellectual content" refers to his conviction that his work would change the world. In a way his work did contribute to a change, just not the end of totalitarianism. As with previous art movements, the techniques, the look has been co-opted and integrated into larger society as decorative diluting the intellectual content behind it. After creating multiple Newmans, I better understand how difficult it is to create. The application of paint, consideration of color, texture and placement creates success or failures, with the realization there is no formula. Perhaps that is why he wasn't a prolific producer, the results weren't up to his criteria. Ideological elimination is a tough goal!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago I agree with you Lisa that art which once was avant-garde and disruptive has lost its charge (at least it's not received by viewers in quite the same way). But not all abstraction has become decorative--there are many contemporary abstract painters who, at least i think, still find a power in abstraction and would object to having their work described as decorative. i think, too, that in trying to talk about the content of any painting, particularly and abstract painting, there are really 2 parts to it, and that is 1. the content according to the artist, and 2. the content according the viewer. i'm not really sure what Newman means when he says that "forms, which by their abstract nature, carry some abstract intellectual content". if a form carries content then doesn't that make it a symbol? is that really what newman wants? and i don't really think that he is someone who is not so concerned with formal elements in painting as he claims-- perhaps he means that one shouldn't limit oneself to formal elements--but i would disagree that even limiting oneself to formal elements leads to ornamentation or to the creation of an ornament--isn't there meaning, and therefore content, in the relationship among formal elements in a painting? i feel that yes there is meaning although i can't always articulate what that meaning is (at (frequent) times like that, i fall back on what Joan Mitchell said: "When you put the blah-blah-blah on it, it kind of ruins the painting..." (!) i love that!) Much of my own thinking on this is still in flux-- so i'm really enjoying reading everyone's thoughts on this important yet slippery topic.....and i really hope everyone keeps writing about this subject--i find it really interesting.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago I think the NY School painters would object to the suggestion that form embodying content is a symbol. There is a quote in Art Since 1900 (by Foster, et. al.) that says, "Newman wants to speak not of space as concept, but of his own "presence"; not of infinity but of scale; not of "the sense of time," but of the physical sensation of time." He and others were opposed to what they called a diagram. Yes, I agree with you that there is meaning, and therefore content, in the relationship among formal elements in a painting (and the environment, including the viewer). I have always approached new art as if absorbing it by osmosis and don't always articulate what is happening and why. But even if I don't say it in words, I can still be apprehending intellectual content. I love all the threads of this course that bring together viewing, reading, watching video and making.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago
5 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
ps. Lisa--I am so envious of your California Museum hopping-- how wonderful!
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Ha-ha! I am envious of east coasters! The distances are much less! California museum hopping takes a lot of driving! But its fun and you see a lot of wildlife in the process. I like the Joan Mitchell quote and the Foster quote. I find it difficult to draw firm lines around art and design at times or high and low art because of the interconnectedness and exchanges of both. But using the zip formula can produce some pretty paintings but the real challenge is to achieve something beyond, something that speaks outside the formal aspect and simplicity of Newman's approach. Which is why, at times, the size and the shape of the canvas lends itself to destroying that formal relationship and creating the abstract intellectual content. (As in The WIld and Vir heroicus sublimus.)
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Yes, I agree that scale is a big factor in Newman. Now that you are back from your travels, do you want to come over to my place next weekend? March 31 or April 1? I prefer mornings but we can talk about what time is convenient for you. (415) 525-4632
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago this is a glorious question. i think at the end of the day we individuals choose to find some personal meaning or value with images that are around us, be they by inspired artists or my daughter's scribbles, the designer of my grandmother's quilt, or if I am allowed to go so far the designer of the beautiful bottlebrush tree I am looking at right now. does the image/item have value in and of itself, because of its creator, or does it have value because i the viewer am subjectively attracted to it. or some combination of all three... in my humble and uneducated opinion, abstract expressionist work - as opposed to other periods/types of art - is at a greater risk of generalization (apocalyptic wallpaper) and misunderstanding by the viewer. particularly Barnett Newman's work because it is so beautifully simple. but don't mistake simplicity for depth and meaning, or lack of skill. like you said, this movement of artists was a breaking free in an important artistic way reflective of a greater societal need after world war 2. I am personally drawn emotionally and intellectually more to abstraction than any other style of painting. there is so much more room for imagination, interpretation, freedom by the viewer - whereas I feel more co-erced by a specific message or point of view with other styles. it is a sort of lack of pressure and room to breathe mentally that I find so-very-refreshing... my background is in music and it is wonderful to see the parallels in visual art that have also happened in the history of music and the creators/leaders of it. thanks, Corey! I'm loving this experience.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago What a thoughtful response, Lauren. I really like your statement about the lack of pressure to find a specific message or point of view and the room to breathe mentally.
6 of 6 5/11/12 7:54 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 4: Classroom Discussion Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Corey THANK you for a brilliant video on this artist about whom I knew nothing previously. I never knew white on white could be so fascinating and you have explained his practice in such a way I cannot wait till the weekend to try this out. In the meantime, I am eating Humble Pie - large helpings - as yup, I now see I am gonna be stretching my own canvas and the benefits of doing so. Fortunately, I stopped into the local thrift shop on the way home and found some type of board on which some kind soul has put a burlap type material, and put a frame around it. So that buys me some time from devouring more Humble Pie! It was very hard to find anything other than Titanium White at the local art supply store. Seems I am not the only one stuck in Titanium Whiteland and I am looking forward to adventuring out into unexplored new areas of White on White. Seriously, your videos are wonderful and make everything so interesting and clear. Thinking ahead, I'd like to sign up for the Paint Like The Moma Pros II course which I am sure you guys are working on for September 2012. Right? PLEASE PLEASE> Hope you are having a super time in Argentina and we all want to know what you are doing there.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Thanks Lulu, I'm very glad to hear it! For the moment, I believe part 2 of this course is on hold, but a supporting email to MoMA Courses couldn't hurt! I'm in Argentina mostly on vacation, but mixing in a bit of work too. It's my first time here, so I'm soaking up as much sun (and Malbec) as possible! Yesterday I visited a museum called MALBA which was very interesting. If you ever find yourself in the neighborhood, definitely check it out!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I second Lulu's suggestion about Part 2 for this course. Who do we write to? Contacting the right person rather than just a general inbox might be the best way to go.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Not to worry, MoMA is smaller than you think! An email to [email protected] will get to the right place.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine MOMA has very large brains and it knows that we would like to study Jasper Johns, Rachenberg, Frankenheller and Joan Mitchell and Dumas. Anyone else has any requests as to Who's On Next?
1 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine WOW re MALBA . It looks as though they have some of Mi Amor - My Main Man's paintings there - BASQUIAT????? Details please. Please tell MOMA to save up their pennies and buy a bunch of Basquiat PAINTINGS (not drawings). They have a large gap in their collection without Basquiat. And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ask MOMA to have a Basquiat retrospective very soon. Please and thanks.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey I am so sorry I was a nit wit in week one and now I need to back track. And grovel for forgiveness! I would really love to know how the heck to build a support for the large painting I did on the drop canvas that I moaned on about in week 1. It is 105" x 60". I am thinking I could get wood cut for me at a lumber store, but I don't know what type of wood to buy and how to put it together with cross beam at the back. You said to shoot you an email if we wanted to know about how to for larger works for stretching. So apologies for being late in my request and not sure where I shoot you the email. my email is [email protected] if you want to reply there instead of here. Muchas gracias senor.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin hola Lulu, no worries! You can still buy stretcher bars at those dimensions, although they will certainly cost more than the lightweight variety. Be sure that they have a deep profile so that they don't warp under the stress of the heavy canvas. Also, make sure that you buy at least 2 cross bars to keep the support square, and perhaps more if you have one or more dimensions greater than about 80 inches. The cross bars are sold along with the stretchers, and most stretchers have grooves already cut in place where you can insert the cross bars. It's relatively straightforward to assemble, but if you're in doubt, the salesperson should be able to help. The same principals apply to stretching large canvases, however you will need to pull more tension. If you are strong, you can still achieve good tension by pulling by hand. More likely, you will likely need to purchase a pair of canvas pliers from an art supply store. You can either stretch the canvas face down on the floor and pull the canvas up over the edges, or you can stretch the painting face up on the table with the edges hanging off the sides of the table. Either way, fold over the canvas a bit so you can grip a 2-ply area with the canvas pliers (gripping a single ply canvas could tear when you pull on it with the pliers). Use your left hand for the pliers and pull the canvas around the edge. While maintaining tension, use your right hand to staple (either into the tacking margin or reverse of the stretcher, depending on which you prefer). For maximum tension, you might first staple into the edge, then staple on the back as well. At that point, you could remove the staples from the edges if you don't like the look of them. This would be much easier explained in a video! I hope we can add this to the course at some point in the near future....
2 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Hi Corey, What do you use to sign your paintings? I assume you do it on the back of the canvas alongside the staples. Is that correct? Do you use fluid paint and a stiff brush? Felt tip pen? Roller ball pen? I want to avoid a sketchy scratchy line with skips.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lorinda, I usually sign my paintings on the reverse in oil pastel, but that's just a personal preference, nothing more. It tends to leave a soft and somewhat fluid line that is quite legible.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Oil pastel is a nice idea. When you say _on the reverse_ do you mean on the broad back of the canvas or do you mean on the canvas where it is stapled over the back of the stretchers?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight on the reverse of the canvas, not on the reverse of the stretchers. If you paint lightly, it might be a better idea to sign on the reverse of the stretcher to make sure it doesn't show through!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago For fans of Ryman, I recommend the book Robert Ryman - Used Paint (2009) by Suzanne P. Hudson. As a former gallery owner, I love the anecdote about the customs official letting Ryman's paintings into Germany in 1968 as "Used Paper."
John Valentich about 1 month ago I just got this book from the library today. Lots of high quality pics of his "white" paintings, but unfortunately, no "optical violets."
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Hi John, I think the paintings from 2004 on pages 250-251 in the Hudson book may be the optical violet ones. Series #12 (White) and Series #24 (White) are the titles. I saw some of these paintings several years ago and was blown away by them. Maybe Corey can confirm whether these are part of the optical violet examples.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Thanks! I missed these 2 illustrations and will be interested to read about them in the associated text. This web site has a few nice large images of violets and other stuff: http://minimalexposition.blogspot.com/2011/03/precursor-robert-ryman.html
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago As Corey mentions in the "Resources" section The Dia: Beacon is a must see. If you like
3 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
minimalist art the experience is incredibly satisfying and the trip up the Hudson is lovely. I was there in January and took a few photos of some of Ryman's work. (the guards at the Dia are wicked aggressive about prohibiting photos of the art...) The photo of the tape marks is my favorite. also you might be able to see that in the Ryman "hallway" there is no artificial lighting which is interesting--i really enjoyed being with paintings in natural light... Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago Corey--I just finished watching the 'in the studio' video and in it you mention that you think of Ryman as more of a maximalist than a minimalist painter. I don't think i really understand what you mean by that--would you explain it again please?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Sure, in my opinion, one of Ryman's central motifs is taking a small set of discrete aesthetic variables, and then finding their maximum variation. For example, in a painting made with one kind of paint at one consistency, gloss, color, etc., Ryman may seek out the widest possible variety of textures. If you begin thinking about his individual paintings in this way, you'll find that more often than not, it appears that he had this type of recipe in mind at the easel...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Dear Corey---Optical violet eludes me. I am trying mars black and titanium white (acrylics). I do not see the O'violet. I ran out of zinc white...is it possible for my stated combination to work? Candi (lost in the black and white but not getting to o'violet)
John Valentich about 1 month ago I've tested titanium white, titanium white unbleached, zinc white, flake white and Utrecht white. Zinc white clearly produces the most striking violet hue. Flake white creates an interesting gray hue. A key to getting the optical violet effect is to scumble until you have a vanishingly small amount of the white paint. I use oils on a Mars Black acrylic ground. I'll post photos of my tests later today…gotta run. Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Hi Candi, I agree with John here. I've never had any luck getting an optical violet with titanium white.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Comparing Different Whites (all oils)
Ignoring, for the moment, the paint on the extreme right and left edges of the
4 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
canvas, the 5 vertical columns are (from left to right): Titanium White -- Titanium White Not Bleached -- Zinc White -- Flake White -- Utrecht White.
Paint was applied at the center of the canvas (were the tape "zip" is) and scumbled upward with circular brush strokes and downward with zig-zag strokes. The extreme left edge is a small amount of Flake White scumbled and the right edge is roughly the same amount of Zinc White scumbled. The pattern along the canvas bottom is an attempt to see if the violet tone appears in impastoed paint. (The canvas was painted with a Mars Back acrylic ground.)
Only the Zinc White showed the optical violet effect, which was seen only with very thin paint films. Flake White (caution: there's lead in this paint) produced an interesting gray tone. All the other whites were too opaque (at least at these thicknesses) and the canvas was either white or black. Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago Zinc White Tests
From left to right: 1- Zinc White from the tube 2- Zinc White thinned with poppy oil to "runny" consistency 3 --> 5 More poppy oil added and paint scumbled without reloading the brush 6 - Zinc White thinned with Liquin with minimal brush loading 7 --> 8 Zinc White thinned with Liquin and scumbled without reloading the brush 9 - Zinc White thinned with poppy oil applied by "stabbing" a 1" bristle brush into the canvas. Between the 4 different stabs paint was wiped from the brush on paper.
(The canvas painted with Mars Back acrylic ground.)
Conclusions
1 - Zinc White must be thin to see the optical violet effect. 2 - Zinc White thinned with poppy oil vs Liquin looks different when scumbled into a thin film. 3 - Zinc White applied in small amounts by stabbing produces the optical effect.
(Sorry for the huge file in the previous post! I forgot to upload the small version.) Attachments:
5 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Thanks, John! I appreciate the research and sharing of results.
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago Interesting solvent effect on the canvas with the Liquin...thanks for sharing your experiments!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Thanks John, I see you're channeling your inner conservator! We do pseudo-scientific tests like this all the time to evaluate material combinations that will look best for our treatments...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Thanks so much for this work and sharing. Very helpful.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: "Pseudo-scientific" is definitely what you'd call these tests. I personally like "alchemy" though (:-)!
John Valentich about 1 month ago Nice video showing Robert Ryman working and speaking about his painting style: http://www.pbs.org/art21/watch-now/segment-robert-ryman-in-paradox
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago Corey, hi...just to let you know I haven't dropped off the face of the earth...just one week behind. Last week was too busy for me to get to the class apart from viewing some of the videos. I'm wondering as I've missed the Robert Ryman week whether its better to skip and come back to him or do this and then go to DeKooning...in the order or come back after week 10? Your thoughts would be appreciated.
thanks! Annie
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Annie, IMO...Ryman is a much more soothing experience, unless you really are a dK fan and advocate.
6 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Totally up to you Annie. My priority is always on the current week, but if I have time I always try to get to posts from past (and sometimes future) weeks too....
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks Candi. I'm looking forward to both actually! DeKooning seems challenging!
Annie Hogan about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine No problems Corey. I'll keep up with the week we're in. I've watched all the videos and will start painting tonight! cheers, A
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Annie Hogan Great...I look forward to seeing whatever you do. I have to say this is my favorite part of the class, seeing what other people do with the assignments. I am especially interested in the de Kooning efforts.
7 of 7 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 4 Studio Discussion Calli Shelton about 1 month ago
Hi, I did two Ryman experiments...not sure if either is done yet but here's what I have so far. Both were done on the unprimed back side of a piece of previously alkyd painted primed linen.
This one is zinc white with thickened linseed oil and distilled turpentine.
1 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
This one is mars black with distilled turpentine and the same white mixture above. This one really feels unfinished to me.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Yes I agree about the second. The two shapes ignore each other, if you catch my meaning. I like the unfinished edges of one--neat contrast to the more controlled paint strokes!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago The painting with the thinly painted black area and the thicker white rectangle is quite strong. It may feel unfinished to you but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. Why don't you stretch it and see what happens.? I suspect the unpainted canvas area would come into its own but I could be wrong. At least you could see where to go next. But the size of the stretchers and exactly how the rectangles relate to the edge of the painting would be critical. In my opinion, there would be nothing wrong with leaving the pencil marks exposed on the surface. Maybe the painting ends up being slightly larger than you originally thought. Nice work! Question for Corey: will the distilled turpentine eat through the unprimed side of the canvas that Calli is working on?
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Thanks for the feedback, Merren and Lorinda. I added another layer to the all white one and kind of like it now.
2 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda, I really like your idea of stretching the black and white one to see how the edges relate. I had already added some more white to try and bring the figures together as Merren suggested but I'll stretch it before going any further.
Thank you both for your help! Calli
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Calli Shelton
3 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Calli, that looks like a great addition to me. It really pulls that together.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Calli Shelton I think you're going somewhere interesting with #2.....looking forward to seeing it stretched!
marc brickman about 1 month ago in reply to Calli Shelton those two are brilliant..
John Valentich 3 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Great revision to the B & W painting. I love how the optical violet effect emerges from the pure white field on the left and then dissolves into pure black. Yes, leave the pencil lines. John Valentich about 1 month ago Peak Oil (Acrylic, Oil and Enamel on Canvas)
Attachments:
4 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago Oh, John, I definitely need some commentary on this one! Can you tell us about the techniques you used here?? Thanks!
John Valentich 3 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Step 1: Apply Mars Black acrylic underpainting Step 2: Paint impastoed acrylic Titanium White central sphere Step 3: Scumble Zinc White oil around sphere Step 4: Using a syringe without a needle and filled with black enamel add the squiggly line Step 5: Using a paint scraper dab the horizontals with heavy body acrylic Mars Black Sorry for the delay. The message board has overwhelmed me!
marc brickman about 1 month ago here is the ryman.. painted on untreated linen then pinned like a pinterest pic to the board with colored pinheads. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Marc, interesting work. and I think that's the darkest piece of linen I've ever seen! For a painting this minimal, a square photo is really important to be able to determine relationships between your marks and the edges of the work, but it seems that you've measured the canvas with vertical strokes. The dry brush mark in the center is a bit of a hiccup - was that the last mark before reloading your brush? or an exception to the rules that you've established elsewhere in the painting?
marc brickman about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine hi corey, for some reason the upload turns my pics sideways everytime... weird.. if you download they are correct.
5 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the lines are horizontal.. the "hiccup" in the middle was just a thought to leave some breathing space between the top and bottom.. in my day job, i strive to always break new ground, so my brain rejects immediately copying of any sort. this class has been great as it has made me listen and learn. i am trying very hard to emulate but be original at the same time. you are a great teacher in terms of making the subject matter clear and exciting. the homework challenging.
i have been painting with light for 40 years professionally. and i am mesmerized with paint itself. if i could paint all day long, i would.
thanks again..
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to marc brickman Hi Marc, you must be using a mac, right? they sometimes will rotate your image in your viewer, but you should save it that way before posting to prevent confusion. If I download it, it's still sideways. If it's not making sense, someone in the tech forum should be able to help. Thanks for the kind words, and I hope you can paint all day long soon! and anyway, mixing emulation and originality sounds like a great recipe for finding yourself while learning from art history....
Lauren Clarke about 1 month ago Although I was very intrigued by Ryman's exploration of whites, I was mostly fascinated by the concept of optical violet. The use of white and black to create an illusion of blue and violet. For my studio exploration, I was inspired by the concept of 'lines and spaces' in music. I'm a musician and teacher and it is amazing to me how little eyes (when trying to teach them to read music using the five lines and four spaces on the music staff) cannot distinguish if a note is 'on the line' or 'in the space'. So I did a little piece trying the optical violet technique with the inverse of black staff lines and spaces on white paper, and instead did white on black. "In the Space" Since my scumbling technique was way too heavy handed the result is a very bland and not even the slightest bit creepy looking full moon. :) I used titanium white but think the black background was not 'warm' enough. It is too sharp/cold? Trying to create that brush stroke was really tough, so I'm going to keep trying and will post hopefully better attempts in the next few weeks. Attachments:
6 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lauren, I've never been able to get a convincing optical violet with a white pigment as opaque as Titanium White, so I would suggest using Zinc White instead. I don't think the issue is the nature of the black ground at all. That said, it looks like your painting has a nice effect, but it'd be much easier to see in a square photo if you have a chance...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago A try at optical violet.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I see violet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago me too! Wonderful texture and structure!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks-- Lulu and Merren...I appreciate the comments very much.
7 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathia G about 1 month ago Here are my samples in order: 1) Painting exploring differences of Titanium White and Iridescent White, mixing them with Linseed oil. The more opaque lines have also Cold Wax Medium. 2) Titanium White with Linseed Oil. 3) Titanium White applied with a knife. 4) I couldn´t get any violet while painting this one. I´ll edit it or wait to see who uploads one with violet shade to replicate it. It is a challenge to create an all white and also non-boring piece.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago all white and non-boring? I'd say you definitely pulled that off in your 3rd painting! I love how your textures are always changing and how the organic contours of your form seem quite natural and create interesting relationships with the subtle waves off your unstretched support. If you look for that same sort of relationship in your 2nd painting, for example, I think you'll find a lack of interest in how your painted marks interact with the edges of the support. To my eye, the "'now you see it, now you don't" effect as the bands disappear on and off the canvas comes off rather flat, since there's not much variation in that effect. And that's the name of the game here: theme and variation. I find your 3rd painting much more successful since your set of variables is so small - one paint, one brush, one type of brushstroke - but your sum effect is quite complicated as my eye wanders all over your painting. This is the kind of maximalism that Ryman so often achieved in his most convincing works....
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Kathia - I respond to the third and fourth ones the most. I almost feel like I'm looking at a human brain in the third one. It's very interesting. The fourth feels like a landscape, and I like it at lot.
Kathia G about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for your feedback Corey. I continued with some paintings, trying to replicate some of the ones posted here. Did Ryman work exclusively on unprimed canvases? Both of my paintings are still unfinished. Attachments:
8 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Hi all I am grovelling at Corey's feet as I now fully understand the benefits of Stretch Your Own Canvas. This VIDEO was brilliant and I found Corey's explanation of the techniques absolutely fascinating. Cannot wait to try this out on the weekend. THANKS SO MUCH COREY for all the wonderful work you have put into this course. I am sure I am not the only one blown away by the depth of the information and training you are providing to us. .
dana len about 1 month ago I am also SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO blown away by the depth of information and training-and I'm barely out of week 2! THANK YOU COREY!!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to dana len haha, good thing I'm using an old photo for this course, otherwise you'd see my head is getting big with all these compliments!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Corey--you were right about Ryman and how to approach his technique. You have to plan a bit, take breaks, and not over tinker. It is easy to make a misstep without a plan. I am trying to follow this advice, but already have some challenges. I did find an iridescent white I am trying and I really like zinc white, which I cannot ever remember using before now. Here is one I did with Mars Black, and Iridescent White, acrylic. I wanted to see how the iridescent white would work with the mars black. I wanted to try to get optical violet...but it never showed up. So, I am going to try zinc white on mars black.
9 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Actually, the top right corner looks pretty purple to me! Maybe it is the photo quality?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth That is a possibility. It does not look violet to me in the paint.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I find this quite delightful and do see hints of the optical violet. It somehow reminds me of a Japanese print - winter storm over Mt. Imming. lovely and ethereal.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Interesting. I never thought about trying to get an optical violet with an iridescent pigment, but from your efforts, it seems that it might not be possible. Nonetheless, that's an interesting canvas, and it seems that your scumbled areas appear to gray out rather than blueing. Having established that odd effect, don't consider this painting a failure (even though it didn't do what you wanted). Instead, stay sensitive to these unexpected findings and keep them in your back pocket for use later....
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I am also reminded of a Japanese print by this. I think it's quite lovely.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Hi All, I have to get started before Mondays or I'll never keep up with this course! So I made some quick studies to see which idea would be worth pursuing over week 4. I have stretched a square of linen and I am going to leave it raw. For 1 and 2, I was interested in how medium and paint interact. 3 and 4 are copies of Ryman ideas from the lecture. 1: I painted shapes (sizes based on the width of the brush) with matte medium into the linen and then while it was still wet brushed titanium white over the whole thing. I went back and forth several times. 2: I painted the shapes with white and then brushed matte medium over all. Also went back and forth. 3: I applied the white directly onto the linen with a knife, then went back and used the tip of the brush handle to work my initials and "12" into the paint. I tried to imagine I was frosting a cake as I worked.
10 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
4: I painted bands of medium-rich colors (right from the tube--no mixing) in sort of a landscape order (sky-land-water) and let it dry. Then I went over the colors with thick paint, thinking of cloud formations. I might look up some cloud photos to get ideas of how to move the paint around.
Right now 4 appeals to me because I feel comfortable referencing the real world in my paintings. I also think what the medium does in 2 is very interesting. Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I like 2 and the idea you had for that...I think that one turned out very interesting to view. I also like 4 for the other colors, as well , and it does seem to follow your Newman natural look.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Merren, these all look like interesting directions to me. Your comment on the "real world" is also quite interesting in the context of Ryman's repeated claim that he is a Realist more than an abstract painter. Looking forward to seeing which direction you take....
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I respond to #4 the most. It seems the most complete. I like it.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Here is the other one. This started out with each row a different color applied with a palette knife: zinc white, unbleached titanium, titanium white, iridescent white and parchment. Of course, I had a hard time leaving it like that and tinkered. I decided to add black in between the rows. Had a little disaster, then decided to started applying washes of zinc white (half paint and half water). Zinc white really has a nice softening quality. I like the horizontal view better. Originally I tried to leave linen exposed, but then eventually it got covered up. I need to improve that aspect. Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago I agree with the change in format....the curves seem to be slowly sinking down the canvas, like those slow lava flows in Hawaii. I wonder what would have happened if the linen in between was bare when you applied
11 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the wash? Are you going to try this idea again?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth I could try a variation..with more control this time, and patience. I have to say I really like this one, even on the wall. I did not expect that to happen. Zinc white could become my new favorite color. Here it is in daylight. The image is a little soft, but I really like the texture. The other effort would be not to lose all visibility of the other colors, too. Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming ooooh yes, this is even better to my eye. In the first photo I know it was the flash, but i saw a metallic sheen...Now that being said, maybe working one in a metallic paint would be a very cool thing!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Cool painting Candi, and thanks for the blow-by-blow. Your softening layer recalls the approach of Agnes Martin, who buried grids withen veils and washes of translucent paint. Actually your bands recall her late compositions as well, so you should definitely check out her work if you're not already familiar with her. If you don't mind gambling with this canvas (and I suggest that you shouldn't mind!), then you might try proceeding forward with another rational in another layer, and perhaps bury that one as well. In fact, if you're working with acrylics, you can thin out acrylic primer (e.g. "gesso", ugh) with water and apply that as an interlayer and overlayer as well. Sometime I hope we can add an Agnes Martin week to this or another course since she's sorely missed here!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Ok, Merren...here are flash and daylight views of the one where I am more careful. Plain linen no gesso. I knifed on the paint again: unbleached titanium, titanium white, unbleached again, 4th row parchment. With many washes of iridescent white and you can still see the linen. I really think this looks more refined. I plan on leaving the linen
12 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
exposed. Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey...I appreciate the insight on both efforts. I will check out Agnes Martin, too. You are expanding my options, which I like!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Looks good enough to eat Candi. Very yummy.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Yes, I agree! Are you going to wash over the spaces as well, or leave them as constrat? The linen is very rough and matte in contrast to the whites. I love the sculptural quality of the paint.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Merren and Lulu for the comments...always appreciate interacting with you and reading your thoughts.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Candi - I think the one on the right is really interesting. It begins to have a very quiet evocative sense to me.
John Valentich about 1 month ago I got a book from the library today about Ryman's work (Robert Ryman Used Paint by Suzanne Hudson). I noticed that in many (all?) of his oils on canvas he uses sized but un-primed canvas. I presume we're using gesso-free canvases in this section, but do we need to size them before applying oils? Don't oils destroy fabric when in direct contact? Or does that take decades/centuries? I'm referring to the "white" paintings. For the "optical violets," I assume an acrylic Mars Black ground takes care of the sizing issue. Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago
13 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Hi John, you're correct on both accounts. The slight acidity of linseed oil can degrade canvas, but this usually occurs over centuries. Sizing is a good way to not only prevent that, but also keep your paints from altering too much after you apply them (since they will retain more medium rather than having it wicked into the support). Yes, I suggest working on unprimed canvas this week to test the idea out, and if you have an eye toward longevity, then sizing is definitely a good idea.
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Took the opportunity of
14 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
experimenting further with the push and pull, the zip, and the o'violet on one canvas. I tried putting them into an animation in windows movie maker to a soundtrack of a firework display and liked the result, but the system crashed and two hours of work went with it- d'oh!
15 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago nice, I like how you're not only combining your ideas with another artist's, but layering your influences as well. After all, Ryman "went to school" at MoMA as a guard pondering over paintings not only by Matisse and Picasso, but also by Newman, Gorky, Pollock and other NY School painters. Bummer about the crashed animation! From your images, I can imagine that it has a playful feel, but maybe that's just my imagination. It's also interesting to see that the subtle optical violet you achieved in your first image is quickly overwhelmed by the full
16 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
bodied hues that emerge from under your black topcoat. I think the verdict is that optical violets just can't push and pull when the big guns come out!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Michael - I like the first one the most. The colors are very interesting, but the first one just has something extra to me. Very subtle and elegant.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago I have new respect for people who must photograph Ryman's work for publication! I resorted to several close up shots of my studies. 1a Left to my own devices, I would be very happy to paint 1.5 inch strokes of T white with gloss medium across the canvas. I discovered that I can paint the strokes much closer to each other than I thought. that simple action serves to unite the surface of the canvas. 2a and 2b Lines are formed by dragging a tool with teeth across the surface of T white and gel medium to reveal the underpainting of increasingly dark shades of grey. The bottom section is interesting because the lines are actual lines - 3 drawn with charcoal pencil and 3 with graphite pencil - and with the same overpainting as above. I didn't really mean to channel Agnes martin. 3a and 3b A square of household white paint (slightly creamy) and patches of Cadmium yellow light and grey form the base layer. Then glossy T white was scumbled over it. This option needs a little more going on but I like the possibilities here. I apologize if this message gets posted twice but the first attempt didn't seem to take. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lorinda, these are excellent! I especially enjoy your 2nd canvas where you have exploited an interesting technique of constructing lines, and then played the trompe l'oeil card by switching to drawing near the bottom margin. Actually, the technique of scratching to expose an underlayer dates way back through the early Renaissance where it was called sgraffito (you'll recognize the source of the word graffiti in there too). This technique involved painting over a gilt layer, and then scratching the paint away with a fine tool to reveal sinuous patterns of gold. Keep an eye out for it during your next trip to the Met, National Gallery, etc! I wonder if your composition might be a bit to loud for the subtlety of your graphic approach though. There are many interesting relationships between the painted and unpainted zones of your canvas, but they may take the eye on a meandering course across the painting that is a bit too fast to appreciate nuance of your most interesting zones. Of course, I may just be channeling my inner Agnes Martin here too.... Also, please don't crop off the edges of your paintings with your photos, especially during Ryman week!!
17 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I knew you would like my experiments with lines in number 2 but I will save the knowledge for another day. These are not separate paintings but details of one canvas tacked to the wall with several experiments side by side. I wanted to zero in on different options. I think you'll like the photo I took of the finished painting (pursuing Option 1) to be posted below.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Lorinda - these are so elegant!
John Valentich about 1 month ago Paintings based on Ryman (FYI: Gale is Flake White (top) and Zinc White (bottom), Ryman Exposed is Titanium White.) Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very cool John, I can see that your experiments with different white paints has helped you achieve a nice violet effect in your first canvas. I also like how you've taken Ryman's cue by contrasting that subtle effect with white impasto. Who knew that white paint could get so loud?! The seriousness of that first canvas is quickly replaced by the playful mood of your second painting, which makes me think of those boxes that we played with as kids - trying to get the red triangular piece of wood through the red trianglular cutout, etc. Poor description, but I think you know the one I mean. Do you think the outer edges are necessary? For me, they have a very different set of relationships than your inner forms. Combined with the unstretched support that wavers from edge to edge, I think it might be a bit too busy for the simplicity of the forms you're working with. You could experiment with how it would look by temporarily cropping or masking the edges inside the boundaries of the white square.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Great optical violet effect in the first two. I like the third one also. I'm assuming the fourth is just a part of the same work?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Palette knife only. Stretched Linen, no gesso. Decided to cover the canvas all up.
Attachments:
18 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very elegant Candi. You've used the clumsiest painting tool and put it to quite subtle use. Your palette makes me think of later Matisse or Yves Klein, specifically his Anthropometries where he actually painted on huge sheets of white (or cream) paper with nude women dipped in blue paint that he called his "living brushes". So when do we get to that week?? I think much of the success of your painting has to do with the very odd and intriguing shape of the blue form that remains visible through the white. It is quite evocative of several forms found in nature, but loose enough that it doesn't necessarily have to be any of them. You could call this "biomorphic abstraction"' since you have created forms that visibly rhyme with nature while still remaining abstract. Sometimes this is easier said than done! I like this little canvas a lot, I suggest hanging it somewhere and living with it for a while to see what you can learn from it over time...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. Will do...I really like the manganese blue...this kind of reminds what a frozen lake surface might look like in winter. I also have to say I am really enjoying this class a great deal, as it continues to expand my options. I do not think I could have this rate of learning without a class like this. If you ever need an endorsement, sign me up!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago That is very nice, Candi. It looks so simple, but I know it is not. It's so easy to make a mess of something like that, but you managed to pull it off.
Terry Lee about 1 month ago Acrylic zinc white washed with a white/indigo tint oil hue on plywood 11" x 28" Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Nice quiet painting Terry. Actually you'll see another that is very similar to your own when we get to Reinhardt week - an early calligraphic canvas executed in monochrome white on canvas called Number 107 from 1950. His canvas is portrait orientation (as opposed to your landscape) and he makes use of many areas of the exposed canvas left in reserve that take on a negative appearance in contrast to the white marks. In effect, that allows the viewer to identify discrete brush strokes a little easier than in your painting since your brush strokes abut each other like jigsaw pieces. I like this approach, but I
19 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
think you could focus a bit more on varying how the brush strokes interact at their edges - which one goes on top, or does it stop just short, and how does the brush stroke start and stop, etc. Your painting seems impenetrable at first, but then invites the viewer in to a very quiet surface. A nice effect! What's the mark near the lower left corner? I can't quite make that out...
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hey Corey, thanks for the critique. The mark on the lower left is a pre-existing divot in the plywood which reads dark from shadow.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Terry - I find your painting to be very peaceful. I like the simplicity of it. I have new respect for anybody who can pull of an all-white canvas.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Terry---What a good idea to use plywood, as I think the wood defects add character to the piece. I think you made it work very well with the stroke variations you made. I believe the zinc white wash adds a lovely softness.
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Kathy Gold Thanks kathy!
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks Candi!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago I pursued Option 1 and I am thrilled with the result. How's that for modesty? I woke up this morning and knew I would be able to enjoy viewing this canvas for a long time. Some people might say that I should get a life but I am happy. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago I'm with you Lorinda, you can hang that on my wall anytime!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Lorinda, I congratulate you, as it looks great and I do not know that I would have the patience to do it myself. I appreciate people that can do this. Thumbs up !
20 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi. Today I am going to do some studies of my husband for DeKooning week. That should be an adventure!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Very lovely, Lorinda. I did a similar one, but it ended up being a bit of a mess, so I definitely appreciate how you pulled this one off.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago primed canvas using acrylics 1. eggshells in matte medium underneath - can see at top of canvas 2. unbleached titatium centre portion with swirls of white gesso on top 3. scrubbed out greyish white at top 4. zinc white over top at upper left and right hand corners 5. clear gloss acrylic stripe going down one side 6. liquid sweeps vertically on left side 7. 7 circles of irridescent white 8. finish with a sprinkle of coffee grinds. not sure if I should "gloss" the gesso or leave it flat. First attempt deleted - used unprimed painters drop cloth canvas and it soaked up everything - not user friendly.
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Ryman taken in the direction of disorder and expressionism...I love it! Something tells me that Bob might find it a bit...well...messy, but I love how you've extended Ryman's experimental attitude outside the confines of his own sets of materials and variables. I can personally assure that this is a very productive path to follow. I think that you're working nicely by testing all of these various matches and mismatches between the qualities of your materials, so in response to your question about gloss, I say go for it! I can imagine that, like many Ryman paintings, your canvas would work well in a series where each canvas shifts the focus to a different aspect of your selected materials and techniques....
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Lulu...I love what you did with this. Very interesting to view.
21 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks so much corey and i was very nervous to upload it as it broke severely from rhyman. love your idea of a series to push through and see what happens. you know i did ask you to delete the other one done on untreated painters drop cloth which was a disaster but it did tell me that material does what it is supposed to do - drinks paint! i am now going to watch your rhyman video demo and see if i can do something more "traditional" rhyman.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Lulu - your energy and range of different attempts are inspiring! I think the finished work is quite lovely. (I need to get a few more descriptive words in my repertoire--I find I use the same ones over and over-and I'm sure there is a better word than "lovely"--but that's all I've got right now.)
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Now to the violet experiment. Used Acrylics on primed canvas 1. taped off white areas to leave natural primed canvas showing 2. painted other untaped areas black 3. scumbled zinc white on black. No violet showed up. Screw this! 4. did "stripes" of zinc white on black areas. 5. palette knife on far right hand side stripe put Paynes Grey over black 6. decided to stick my finger in zinc white and put on top on scrumbled area. Kinda looked like moon phases when I finished. 7. added gloss medium stripe at top of black and onto the black, before first stripe and added another gloss medium stripes two below. 8. palette knife and added thick zinc white to vertical area where white canvas left. doesn't show well in photo but looks kinda cool. 9. looks rather boring to me so added some fun. 10. painted sides of canvas violet and etched in "violet moon phases" with toothpick. see second photo. some paintings you just know you will paint over. This is one unless anyone has any suggestions? Cheers
Attachments:
22 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Ryman Revisited. first photo 1. acrylic on untreated house painters thick canvas duck - slurps up paint like crazy. 2. got very frustrated with this as it sucked everything up except if I used impasto 3. don't know why I have to conquer this type of canvas but decided to come back to it today - there has to be a way to work with this stuff! 4. second photo - added some very watery black which the canvas sopped up. Ah ha add more water and thus canvas is happy. Weird though because previously I tried watery medium on it and nothing showed up. Seems one has to use countless layers, (previously commented on this type of canvas in week one and the extraordinary amount of paint needed to achieve a result!) 5. did watery black over zinc white area so it came out gritty grey - not too bad. 6. the composition looked very unbalanced so added some paint pen in golden titanium type colour to emphasize stripes 7. sorry Mr. Ryman rather a mess yes, but at least I tried!
Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago Do you think coating the house painters canvas with a transparent acrylic medium would seal the fabric and preserve the color and weave? I assume this is why you don't just gesso it. PS: I like your cafe au lait painting and the creative use of different media. (For some reason I can't re-locate it again and going through all these posts is sooo tedious!) The subtle shifts in pale tones is well played...but so un-you! I think the painting stands on its own, but could it be used as the underpainting for drips and splashes of more saturated colors???
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Hi John, yes, using the acrylic medium as a size layer will help seal the canvas, but unfortunately it won't prevent it from darkening over time...
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I took these photos late in the day with natural light, so I'm not sure they are well lit enough, but I'll give it a try. Attachments:
23 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago #1 - I wanted the raw linen look, but I didn't have any linen, so this is faux linen. I did several washes of varying neutrals on a primed canvas, and then just mars black and zinc white
#2 - I do think this looks better in person. The paint looks ver plastic-y in the photo--which I guess it is. This is acrylic zinc white, with a couple of glazes and overpaints, because the first effort was just not clean. Now it just kind of looks gunked up. I now definitely appreciate the clean simple beauty of Ryman's paintings #3 - This is acrylic mars black ground, with acrylic zinc white painted over. I had fun with this. I can definitely see the optical violet in person, but I don't know if it comes through in the photo #4 - This is just a small piece of corrugated cardboard. I liked how the corrugation created the texture in the paint
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Woo Hoo you got it goin on woman! #1 - what is the background colour because it looks like a strong yellow. LOVE this one. #2. Yup it's working. Slightly gunky but not in a bad way. works for me. #3. Ahhhh this one is magnifique! Step it up on to a 5ft x 5 ft and you'd be on the fast track to Fame, baby! #4. Very unique.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Kathy--I have to say I really like them all. 1. Because you came up with a way to get faux linen and then create a great looking composition. 2. You did the straight lines and they look soothingly refined. 3. You achieved optical violet! 4. Great idea on the cardboard and interesting visual to view.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Kathy Gold In #3 I like the sense of depth and angles you've created, particularly in the lower left. Nice atmospheric, netherworld effect overall!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks, John. I loved working with the optical violet approach. I see from the studies you have done that you are intrigued by the possibilities as well!
24 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Lulu! For the background color on #1 I did several very light acrylic washes--just paint and water, because I didn't want any gloss. The first wash was raw sienna, which is probably the strong yellow tone. Then probably raw umber, maybe burnt sienna, maybe burnt umber...? I can't quite remember.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago wow! nice work Kathy, I think you have a great feel for Ryman not only as a technician of paint, but also as a composer. The shapes of your fields in your first and third paintings are wonderfully organic, and the wide variety of thicknesses and textures in your third canvas gives the eye plenty to chew on. Your 4th painting sacrifices the flow of your previous three for a choppy, rough-around-the-edges approach, but I like how you've kept it playful by omitting a mark from the upper right corner and by rhyming the two dark shapes together. These are very nice, now the challenge will be to maintain this level of attention to the paint during each of the weeks of our course. Keep it up!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi! I found the Ryman week very enjoyable--so many possibilities with such simple parameters.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for the critique, Corey! I did really enjoy the Ryman approach. There are so many possibilities within a few simple parameters. On another note--you asked in some other discussion what was in the Silicoil brush cleaning fluid I mentioned. (One problem with this site is that I have a hard time finding a past post unless I remember which specific discussion thread it was in. Maybe I just haven't figured out the search feature.) Anyway, the labeling as to contents on the bottle is quite vague--"petroleum distillates"--so I am assuming it is very toxic nasty stuff. It does have a very strong odor. It works great, though! And it can be re-used over and over and over. The jar has a lid, so you only have to smell the toxic waste when you open the lid to quickly clean your brushes. The paint slides right off and you don't even have to use soap and water. What's a few brain cells compared to ease of cleaning?
John Valentich about 1 month ago This is a little study I just did playing with optical violet and the possibilities in manipulating pure white paint (Titanium White). (Acrylic and oil on watercolor paper) Attachments:
25 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Here is my Ryman. A series of titanium white brushstrokes painted on a grid, then washed over with matte medium. Each shape is labeled in pencil with a symbolic system I created to represent how I painted. I signed my name to look like another label. Row 1: Filling the squares with a single even layer applied horizontally. Row 2: Filling the squares with a double even layer applied horizontally. Row 3: Filling the square with one brushload, applied horizontally starting from the top. Row 4: Filling the square with one brushload starting from a corner and moving horizontally and vertically. As you can see I am not much of a scientist; I did not always stay within my grid. I also worked rapidly, as I wanted the medium to go on before the acrylic has started to set. One of the most interesting things about this exercise is while I was applying the matte medium, my brush on the canvas made the most beautiful sounds, just like a drum. I did not notice this effect while painting the Newman. I guess it is because this time I worked on an unprimed stretched surface? Anyway it was neat. Attachments:
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Merren - I love that. It would be interesting to see what it looked like against a different background also. The transparency and the simple grid are elegant.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago nice! One of my favorite experiences as a teacher came a few years back when I was struggling to get though to one of my students. She was a PhD music theorist and readily absorbed all of the ideas I taught, but she was incredibly timid as a painter and despite all of my efforts, she never engaged with the medium at all. then during Pollock week, I stopped by her canvas and was amazed at how thoroughly she absorbed his technique. I was shocked at the sudden transformation and asked her what happened, and she said she started listening to the sound of her paint as she splattered, and suddenly she found her self drumming a beautiful rhythm into the painting. Pollock loved bebop drummers, so she made a wonderful connection that I had never realized! Your painting is odd and interesting, kind of a negative grid of empty space with almost-empty regions of paint. Your wet-in-wet blending of the medium gives the entire painting a transient, flickering quality that is quite effective in combination with the quietness of your composition (despite the sound of your technique!). At this scale, I find some of the disruptions to be a bit jarring, especially along the bottom edge, but I think that this tension would subside if you increased the size of the canvas while maintaining the size of your painted zones. I can imagine that painting quite nicely, a 20x20 grid or so could be quite strong, maybe you should give it a shot!
26 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Thank you Kathy and Corey for your feedback...I found it hard last and this week to keep up with the class....we're going on Spring Break and its the end of third quarter for me.Lots of stuff going on! It can be hard when you don't "have" to show up in actual classroom at an actual scheduled time! Very frustrating as like the idea of working on these paintingsover series of sessions and I just can't get to it! I agree the final row doesn't really work.....it was a spontaneous decision after I started painting. I think Ryman probably plans a little more carefully!
John Valentich about 1 month ago Plantation (Oil, acrylic and charcoal on canvas) Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I really liked this, John. Very interesting to look at and I really enjoy the texture of it.
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago HI, I used 300 lb cotton paper and many kinds of which included acrylic, gouache and water color. Whites are difficult. I had the idea of doing an Alber's color study but with degrees of whites and adding a little flare. I showed this in another painting class and one of the students was offended. They couldn't understand what I was doing. I take that as a compliment. Kristen Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kristen, what a weird and interesting painting! I think the overall composition may have been a bit more satisfying if you had layered the colors rather than painting in rings as that would help "'clean up" the edges. However, your color choices are quite subtle, and that is underscored by the tone of the canvas that shows through all of your paints which brings them closer together in the eye. I also wonder if your squarish composition would have appeared more objective on a square format support, but your different handling of paint in the upper and lower areas of the canvas also provides a Ryman-type sense of humor. I think you've touched on some interesting qualities here that could be explored in further canvases....(in other words, I'm not offended, but that doesn't mean it's not a
27 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
compliment!)
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi Corey,
Thanks for your insight. I am not sure what you mean by clean up my edges. Are you referring to the crookedness of my Abler's-like color square, or the textured surfaces above and below. As per your suggestion, I am going to re-do the square but put it in a square format and perhaps use tape or sketched in lines to make a less free- hand image. I am not sure how I will add in the other as it will be hard to keep that square format and add in the textured surfaces above and below. Perhaps I could put a larger last square of free flowing all around the image of the Alber's square.
Kristen
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to kristen lyn morrison sounds like a good idea to me, Kristen. As for the "cleaning up" part, I'm a fan of hand-made edges and the manual imprecision that comes with them, but your edges might be a bit too organic to the point where they are more visually dramatic than some of the color and textural effects that you're pursuing. good luck!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago This is great! I like that the top and bottom look like testing grounds for the painting in the middle...as if you were going to crop them off later when you were ready to frame but then you haven't! So we get an idea of process as well as product.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago My experiments with Ryman. I used a combination of handmade papers and unprimed canvas and acrylics with added retarders and matte medium. Used zinc white and buff titanium for the whites. Mars black for the black. That optical violet exercise is addictive! Ryman-1: Zinc white on buff paper Ryman-2: Buff titanium on unprimed linen: Linen was creased attracting the paint in a pattern Ryman-3: Zinc white on grey paper Ryman-4: Zinc white , ultramarine blue, cobalt blue cadmium red, on unprimed linen Ryman-5: Zinc white, Mars black on buff paper Ryman-6: Zinc white, Mars black on white paper Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Lisa I am hard pressed to say which is my favourite - 5 and 6 WOW they look ethereal
28 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
but good enough to eat - like cotton candy. I really like the works on different coloured paper and I want to try that. Like also the rough edges of the paper. #2 works well and I wonder how it looks next to #3 if you put them side by side. #4 was a shock to the system to see colour. Q to Corey is there a way to print out everyone's work or to do some type of compilation after we are finished with everyone's work?
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks Lulu! When I was creating Ryman 2, I liked it a lot more than when I finished it! I think its a fun experiment but I think 3 ended up being more successful because of the transparency of the zinc white and the texture of these papers. I LOVE paper! The funny thing about the optical violet I had planned on practicing on the two papers and doing a final one on a canvas but I was so engaged with the effect I kept going! (Also it may have something to do with being in San Francisco - its been so rainy and foggy here lately that this technique and effect feels like the city itself!) Ryman did a lot of color studies like the one I posted. I was trying to get a feel for all of his explorations.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Nice idea Lulu, but I don't think Haiku could do something like that. Sounds like a question for the technology forum though, hopefully someone there will be able to help.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very cool, Lisa! I can tell you got a lot of mileage out of this week. I think my favorite painting of yours is the smallest. It reminds me of Newman's The Wild where he narrowed the entire canvas into a zip. Here, you've reduced the painting down to a brushstroke, what a wonderful idea! OK it's a double brushstroke, but I think you get my gist. Your optical black paintings are also quite good, but for my eye, the area of warm canvas that you've left in reserve in the first painting is a bit too loud for the subtle veils you've achieved between black and white. Your 2nd optical violet painting is quite nice - your off-kilter square within a square makes me think of Malevich - but I want to stretch it to clean up the loose edges!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Love #5 it looks like a deeper pursuit of #5. I really like how the layers move back and forth between figure and ground especially in the top left and lower right corners!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Too bad everyone does not have a Flickr account. We could create a group and load everyone's stuff there.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Lisa...I love 5 and 6...wonderful to view. I also like what you did with #4...cool effect.
29 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Heh you know we could create a FaceBook page for us and load everything up there - what do people think?
30 of 30 5/11/12 7:53 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 4: The "How" of Painting Candi Imming about 1 month ago The impact of studying Ryman enhances my attention to the way I view a painting. It increases that sensitivity to understand how the artist constructed the work. I can only say this because of information about his work presented in the class videos and my own limited attempts to try to emulate him. Doing the exercises offers me more options to consider in my own efforts. I do think this an excellent method to understand art history and artists, as you definitely build new pathways in your brain that make it hard to forget.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I completely agree Candi.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Trying to emulate the facture, pallet and paintings of master artists has really given me a much deeper understanding and appreciation of their accomplishments and art history in general. Previously, I've studied the work of O'Keeffe and Van Gogh this way. The integration of theory, history and studio practice makes the MOMA course unique, IMO. It's the major reason I'm taking it. Even though it's still early and things are speeding along, this course has already deepened my understanding and appreciation of the artistic ideas of Barnett Newman. Now on to Ryman… Maybe by the end of the week I'll actually be in a position to try and address this question! Merren Booth about 1 month ago I picked Andrew Wyeth, John SInger Sargent, and Monet, three artists whose work I have always admired both for execution and style. Here is a link to Wyeth's Wolf Moon: http://www.andrewwyeth.com/images.html#6 Here is a link to Sargent's Ambergris Smoke: http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/sarg1a.shtm Here is a link to Monet's Rouen, West Facade, Sunllight: http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=46654&image=10460&c=
I marvel at how such simple marks and shapes that in isolation are so abstract can in composition become really complex things. Sometimes it is also funny to find, say, a bit of sand in a Monet. It proves that he worked outdoors! I think if you are interested in particular kind of paint it helps enormously to look at past masters and try to suss out what they did with it. It also helps to watch the artist at work. That's why I love stumbling upon street artists and going to street art fairs. Lots of times they are open to questions, too! I have to give demos in art class. Just showing a finished example to the students would leave a lot of them hanging. That being said, I try to keep my demos short and I encourage them to experiment and try an idea they have while at work, rather than just have me show them what to do. My mentor used to say, "There are many right ways!" and that is certainly true in my art
1 of 2 5/11/12 7:52 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
class. I haven't thought of the paint strokes as Ryman sees them, marks that show what the paint does/is. I've always seen paint as the means to the end, the representational image I want to capture or create. If a mark "looks" like a wisp of cloud or a swathe of grass, then that is the mark I will use. I do now see there is a beauty in the marks as themselves, and I agree with him that the way to get other people to see that beauty is to keep it simple--no distractions from hue or value changes.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Nicely said! Thanks for the pointers to the Monet images.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Merren, its great that you posted Monet's Rouen! I recently saw this, http://www.getty.edu /art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=142049&handle=li at the Getty, not as dark as the photo, and immediately thought of Ryman, and the wheat stacks, http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide /artObjectDetails?artobj=1088&handle=li as well! (well plus, Corey mentions this in the lecture!) But it is very evident when viewing in person. I wonder if white, perceived as such a neutral color, had the ability to best articulate what Ryman wanted to say about painting. While the color white has meaning attached to it, I wonder if its physical application better defined the brushstrokes, layers, and systems that Ryman was practicing. When I was in art school I struggled with color initially so one of my teachers told me to paint monochromatically, black and white and umber and white then move on to color so I could better understand form, shape and light and dark. Simplifying the palette, as Monet did in the two examples I posted, allowed a different articulation to define the qualities of painting, light, depth, perspective, and form. The result still gives the viewer the definition of the form, however the light and texture are brought to the foreground. I can see how Ryman would consider that whites were best for his exploration of those nuances. In the lecture, Corey pointed out how the viewer could read the paintings through a lens of jazz music. Which led me to wonder that like a musician, Ryman chose white as his "instrument" to explore the riffs, rhythms and improvisation of painting.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago ah oui, bien sure, c'est da la musique, les blancs. C'est une danse aussi.
2 of 2 5/11/12 7:52 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 5 Classroom Discussion paula J swett about 1 month ago Hi Corey I? finally had a chance to read responses to week with Barnett Newman. I like to write on my pieces and now understand from your responses to JOhn that sharpie are not archival. Would you please suggest what i can use that would be archival? preferably a marker
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago I'm not aware of any markers that are archival, but this is a bit out of my territory. Let me ask a paper conservator and I'll get back to you....
paula J swett about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine look forward to your response and i appreciate you and this course so very much MOMA is lucky to have you there will you be teaching any other courses on or off line?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to paula J swett Thanks Paula, I'll be teaching a course at the museum in the Fall, and we're beginning to brainstorm another online course, but that's a way off still....
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine MORE COREY EL MAGNIFICO AND MOMALICIOUS ONLINE PAINTING COURSES PLEASE for the Fall.
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Hi Corey, Can you suggest any additive that could give acrylic an oily quality? What happens when you add oil to acrylic? Did dK paint on anything else but canvas? Did He ever paint on unprimed canvass or let any of the canvas show? Thanks, Kristen
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Nope! Acrylics act like acrylics, hard to change that. I suggest working in oil if it's an option. Mix oil and acrylics will lead to an extremely unstable paint so I don't recommend...unless you like to watch paint jump off of your canvas onto the floor! Yes dK sometimes left canvas showing, but usually his canvases were so heavily worked that no such areas were left.
1 of 3 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks Corey! Have a good day.
marc brickman about 1 month ago what about water based oils? Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to marc brickman Actually there is no such thing. So called water-miscible oils are aren't oils at all and they don't look or feel like oils either. They are easy to clean up, but that's about the only positive thing I can say about them. Hopefully these products will be get better in the future....there's certainly room for improvement!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago 1. Thanks so much Corey for the very high quality art history lectures and studio demonstrations--i'm getting a lot out of them. 2. Hearing that de Kooning used to drive around and stick his head out the window to look at landscapes kind of reminds me of the story of Turner sticking his head out of steam engine trains and drawing what he saw --at least i think i heard that story.... 3. After doing the studio experiments i am struck by how relevant de Kooning is to contemporary painting--do others feel that way? 4. learning that de Kooning was trained in the classical academic style of drawing and painting makes me wonder if it is a good thing for contemporary artists to receive that kind of training. most people seem to think that it is completely useless, but i wonder....what do others think?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Glad to hear that you're enjoying our class Penelope! Yes, I find that dK remains very relevant to contemporary painters, especially abstract ones, and especially after the monumental retrospective at MoMA last year that brought his entire career into focus. The sheer depth and quality of that show still has me reeling.... As for training, I think it can go both ways. Academic training can provide useful tools, but it may also close creative doors. Personally, I think any pathway is fine as long as you have a goal in mind. This reminds me of the popular criticism of avant-garde jazz players - many criticized Ornette Coleman since he couldn't play bop, but they ignored the fact that he never wanted to play bop!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I watched the videos and I am thinking this artist offers a wide range to consider. In the early works, I do see men, but did de Kooning ever apply his "Woman 1" technique to painting of men? I will have to say I do appreciate how you identified what to consider and think about in his women paintings. To say he had difficult relationships with women makes it easier to understand his choices. It feels odd to me to paint women when I do not have that same view, but I can think of a few men I might be able to consider. The other thing is to paint women of today...I do not think of them as all fleshy..more like gaunt and stretched like the celebrity glams followed by the camera lot. Angelina Jolie's leg shot chatter came to mind, as well as her lips, when you
2 of 3 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
were talking about his women paintings. I wonder how de Kooning would have considered Botox? Long story short, I guess I want to see what I can do with figures, but I only have a week to work it (and get pointers.) Expanding my range..a good thing. I did do a male, but I cannot determine how I could ever share it. I find the situation interesting. I will keep thinking on it...many cig breaks.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I was not happy with my result, so I painted over it. I am happier with it, but I still want to do a figure.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Candi, you're right. dK painted men early in his career but never after painting Woman, I. Something tells me that he wouold have loved the Botox pumped women of today since those effects can go from seductive to repulsive in a blink....much like the best figurative dK paintings.
3 of 3 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 5: Studio Discussion Kathia G 29 days ago Here are my "De Kathias" =) I´m trying to keep up with the paintings after returning from vacations. Enjoying all the videos and lectures and also the postings and valuable information from everyone. The first one is my ugly woman. I used oil and charcoal. On the second one. I mixed all the colors and played with strokes. Third one Is the next version of the second one... and still working and redoing everything. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 28 days ago Hi Kathia, these are all nice starts! For the first painting, I think your next step is to further integrate the figure and ground, since right now that ugly duckling is sitting in a rather traditional pictorial space with the background clearly behind her. If you can enmesh the figure and ground, she'll be all the more present as your entire composition will be thrust forward into the viewer's space. The second two are quite nice, but I think you should take the dare to make them a bit ugly. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to pretty them up a bit before taking them off of the easel, but right now they appear perhaps a bit too straightforward and simple, two adjectives that dK never wanted to have applied to his paintings!
Kathia G 25 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks Corey. I kept painting and transformed the strokes into a kind of pretty woman compared to my "fea" one. Next versions: "La Bella & la Bestia". Attachments:
dana len about 1 month ago My first dK attempt turned to green mud! I will continue working on it! Here is attempt #2. I enjoyed working with the OMS and linseed oil. Attachments:
1 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Green mud doesn't sound so bad! Something tells me that it's salvageable and will be an interesting underlayer to scrape down to. This 2nd canvas looks interesting too. Your palette is strange and quite strong, especially given the hot red adjacent to both acidic and neutral greens. A couple things to think about going forward: -vary your brush size (or paint with the side sometimes). A series of marks made with the same size brush can lose energy -fracture your zones, either by overpainting them or scraping/scrubbing them away to reveal what is below. -your composition has an emphasis on the vertical, but I'm not sure that's necessary. A few horizontal passages could shake things up. -and finally, remember to alternate drawing and painting, even if your drawing phases are done with paint (like the broad black mark running toward the center of the top edge). Some of your applications are interesting, but your painting is asking for more variety (of application, gloss, opacity, etc), so now the trick is to listen to painting and give it what it needs!
dana len about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine What valuable input! Thank you for you critique Corey! I will keep all of this in mind as I continue these paintings-can't wait to see where they'll end up!
dana len about 1 month ago I'm still stuck on deKooning! certainly not a bad place to be stuck! These images show the current state of each painting- I plan to continue the layering process! Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to dana len nice! looks like you have a studio full of de Koonings! I like what's happening in canvas #2 the best....
marc brickman about 1 month ago hello,
2 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
here are my three DeK's.. sorry i am late, been slammed with our other day job project... FeeFiFOFUN.com
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Marc, not sure if I'm turning them the right way or not, and the off-square photos are a little tricky, but your 3rd painting is the one that really catches my eye. I love your combination of red, blue, and brown hues! It's a little louder than dK would use, but this is a nice update. The blue that covers an entire edge seals off the space nicely, but I would like to see a little more interplay between the materials, perhaps by bringing the pink or brown back over to refine the edges of the blue. The color and composition set the bar quite high, but your painterly approach doesn't quite meet their standards. Fortunately you can keep charging ahead!
John Valentich about 1 month ago
(Acrylic, Charcoal, Conte Crayon, Graphite on Watercolor Paper) Attachments:
3 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Ooooh John, I really like this....it looks like there should be a story about this...do you have one?
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very cool John! Excavation meets Demoiselles d'Avignon, which is where it came from anyway! I love the density and space of your painting, and your composition quite nicely establishes an allover feel to the canvas....almost. I wonder why you left the heavy borders in many areas of the periphery. The border at the right is jolting but also quite interesting, while to my eye the border on the left mutes some of the forms that they contain. Obviously you're attempting something with them though, probably something I'm not quite seeing yet. thought?
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Bloody marvelous !!!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago wow John this is awesome--i particularly like the blue edge with what look like hieroglyphs.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine What happened is that the forms in Excavation got too vertical and morphed into something suggestive of Demoiselles. You're right about the weak left border. I tried fixing it to give balance to the overall painting. Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming This painting was intended to be an exact replica (:-) of de Kooning's Excavation. When I realized it wasn't going to turn out that way, I started freelancing, thus the right and left borders and the red form in the center. So the "story" is a mashup of plagiarism and serendipity. Or, as Philip Guston said: "On a lucky day a surprising balance of forms and spaces will appear…" If you see a story, please post it, unless it's about some dark event involving chainsaws repressed in my psyche!
4 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich
Great story...I loved reading it. Thanks, John
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago John - love it.
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago Hey John, Excavation has always been one of my favorite de Kooning pieces, and I love your take on it. I'm intrigued by the effects you've created using acrylic and conte crayon, and even more so by the hieroglyphic band at right. It seems to have a language of its own. There's a great exhibition of Keith Haring's early work at the Brooklyn Museum right now, and they have some of his notebooks where he would create set after set of his own alphabet, playing with letter patterns, or numbers, or symbols, and you're marks carry a lot of that same intrigue. That said, I do agree with Corey about the heavy boarders on the left and top - perhaps the only thing to consider if you choose to move forward. Really well done.
paula J swett about 1 month ago i really lovee these pieces. I am so curious how you managed to get the strokes edged with black. Could you share how you did that?
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse Thanks for your feedback! I checked out the web site for the Haring exhibit and will look at his work more closely when this course finishes. I considered adding some cryptic alchemy symbols to my Pollock painting but decided against it at the last minute. John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to paula J swett The black edges are mostly charcoal with a contribution from the black underpainting in some places. marc brickman about 1 month ago my pics always upload sideways..pls rotate
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago This piece, started shortly after seeing the dK retrospective at MOMA for the first time, and greatly influenced by it, has been on and off of my easel for several months. Here's it's current form. (4'x3', oil and charcoal on canvas) Attachments:
5 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Thanks for the comments, Lulu and Tyler.
Tyler - I think this work is very strong. I can really feel the de Kooning-ness. I like the colors, and I think the composition and figure work.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Tyler, I like the colors and the paint action in this one...great to view.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very interesting painting Tyler, I hope you're keeping some photographs of different states of the painting as dK did with Woman, I. I really like how you're laboring the canvas so extremely, but at the same time you're keeping your colors quite light and fresh rather than allowing them to naturally tend toward muddy, disordered hues as bits of multiple colors begin to interact with each other. I also think that the space is quite well developed with the exception of several forms near the top edge that are perhaps a bit too bold and close off the composition. I also think you might vary your relationship between painting and drawing as you go forward - sometimes following the space-filling model as you have for the most part, but perhaps also using drawing to divide shapes and space, not only to ensnare them. In other words, I'd love to see some of the interesting remnants of cubism that you're working with in the center of the canvas go head-to-head with the more painterly explorations you've taken near the lower corners. Looking forward to seeing where this ends up!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Here is my de Kooning effort. I wanted to do two dK's for this week, but have been out of town, and this is as far as I've gotten. This is acrylics. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I love the colours and the fluid motion.
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago Really like your palette here, Kathy. You've achieved a level of complexity that's definitely not easy to accomplish with acrylics, and I'm intrigued by the drawn lines that you've left visible, which I assume are done in charcoal.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago wow nice! this makes me think of dK's work in the early 40s when he was so much under the influence of Arshile Gorky. Your biomorphic shapes and color are quite playful, but I think your painting could be more interesting and energetic if it took place in a somewhat
6 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
deeper pictorial space. Since many of your forms seem to skirt around each other (like the pink between the two white forms in the center), they appear parallel in space which limits the degree to which the forms can interact with each other. I think that by allowing these forms to overlap more, either with painting or drawing elements, you can enrich some areas of the canvas that don't have as much energy as others. Attack the weak ones first and don't forget the cigarette break before things go too far!
paula J swett about 1 month ago I am wondering about the reference to Conte Crayons. Are they oil????
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Yes, pastel and crayon are vague terms so they can use anything from gum arabic (i.e. watercolor) to oil as a binder...
paula J swett about 1 month ago
i worked and reworked my original posting from last week. I painted and removed and painted and layered and removed paint so many times that i do have a sense of opacity and transparency that can be created with using my acrylics. When the acrylics were wet i could use many methods to smear drip and remove the paint --- i ended up using cotton balls the most to useremove paint because i could make a gestural mark similar to the brush to put paint on. i also used a dry sponge brush to remove paint.. Despite all the layers and removing of paint, the man just wanted to be blue Title "WANNA BE BLUE" Attachments:
John Valentich about 1 month ago I like your colors and how you've applied them. All that layering has worked nicely. My only criticism would be that if you want the figure to emulate dK it needs greater abstraction.
paula J swett about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks John , i appreciate your comments. i plan to attack the blue man again today
paula J swett about 1 month ago Hi there, i heard you say inyour studio discussion that some might find Dekooning's marks grottesque at times. i have acrylics so i mixed anti fussants and pro dri and aimed for large arms gestural marks. tried scraping and removing paint with cotton balls and dame gestural marks in the removing i like making the gestural marks and will continue into the next piece. I think this is quite grotesque but considering making new large marks over this????
7 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago anti fussants and pro dri?! never heard of them, but they seem to be helping you make some interesting marks! As I think you've found, you can work acrylics heavily on the surface of the painting while they remain wet, but because they're plastic, they're not so forgiving at being removed with dry techniques like sanding or scrapings. How big is your canvas? Your marks seem vibrant, no try turning the canvas, working in another direction, and allowing the fluid properties of your paint to record the varying speed of your brushwork (either explosive splatter or slow tracking marks). Remember, this painting should change again and again as you rework toward some destination that probably won't even be in sight for some time....
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Take a good picture of it and attack it again, I say!
John Valentich about 1 month ago I like the subtle blending of colors, but agree with Merren that the painting needs attacking. Don't ask me how (:-)! paula J swett about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth thanks Merren and i did do that and now to attack again
Terry Lee about 1 month ago Oil on Canvas 30"x30" "Thirty x Thirty x Thirty" Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Hi Terry---does that mean you only made 30 strokes? I like the look of it very much and really love the colors.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago yum yum yum!!! lovin it
Terry Lee about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thirty minutes but it may have been 30 strokes too. I didn't think of that!
8 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago 1. L'origine du monde - acrylics and watercolour crayons colours look better in person. Colours too strong - fighting with each other?? Dunno if this works ? Not delicate enough - more sketchy background stuff needed? 2. Jesus lives in Harlem next to the deli Collage, acrylic and markers. Constrained by grid of streets i.e. squares - DeK more diagonal . . Colours look like shit ??-Just a big mess?? what to do with this.?? want to keep the street grid with underwritings some showing through. Maybe forget DeKooninization of this one?
Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago undefined Dear Lulu-- Love the reference to the Corbet painting in the Godwin style...with some changes. To tell you the truth, at first look I thought they were two glasses of red wine clinking and the meal on the table...I kid you not. I now see how far off I was. I think because you refer to red wine, I am preconditioned to see it. I also like JLIHNTTD and the fact that you incorporated that portrait with the map. Pretty cool idea. Candi
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i especially like l'origine du monde--it's a very powerful painting.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Lulu - I love the energy and big inviting spaces in the first one. JLIH is also very intriguing. Really draws me in.
9 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago dK-Ormerod's practice I have to say this week was tough and rewarding. I worked with oil, oil pastel and charcoal on the two figurative works and just oil on the more abstract piece. I used linseed oil, solvent, japan dryer and some name I forget that made the paint so buttery and velvety that it was a little too seductive. A larger canvas would help with more overall physicality of the painting. I wish I had more time before this week was over to do more so I could delve into the act and action of painting more. Definitely need to do more and I think the Pollock week will help out with that as well. This week has given me a lot to chew on and work with in my own studio practice. I had a lot of fun! Here are my three. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Love dk2 and the teeth - watery like his underwater paintings a bit. like the colours of the palette and your brush strokes. I think this one really works.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Lisa---I like both of the figure paintings, as you did a good job of making them loose. I think dK2 is my favorite one of the two. Is that a kayak paddle the middle figure is holding...and is that a naked man holding it...I am not sure? Does the person on the left have water wings or some sort of flotation device around the waist? I love the teethy grins reminds me of "cheese". dK2 reminds me of a family vacation photo. As always, you did a great job.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago these are all really interesting --i can't really pick one that i like over the others--How big are they?--i especially dig the purple and yellow testicles and the teeth!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Wow, very cool Lisa, I can tell you really embraced dK's approach! I think your first figure is very promising, I like the composition, the interesting use of drawing elements in the legs, and the palette. However, I think you're still stuck in Old Master pictorial space a bit since the background really looks like the background. I would attempt to bring the rear space all the way forward to the picture plane, perhaps even challenging the figure by trying to place it in frond of him. Also, I like your use of drawing to hone in on contours, but don't be afraid to draw loudly back on the surface again. Especially in the figure, I think you could work charcoal back into the surface to energize some of the contours that have become a bit heavy (for example the proper left side of his torso). I think you've you've understood the approach and you're half way there, now don't stop there!
John Valentich about 1 month ago I like the left-most painting the best. Maybe you could achieve the flattening effect Corey talks about simply by painting out the vertical yellow line and extending the green and
10 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
purple below the arm to the area above it? I used charcoal a lot in my de Kooning 1 and liked the effect. The blue gestures in the right-most painting have very nice flow. Maybe using a little charcoal in this painting would make the green and ochre forms pop?
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago Lisa - I love dk-2. The teeth do it. I love the loose way you have handled the figures.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Aside from my Newman and Ryman, this is my first painting in 45 years. I had so much fun! But I can see that acrylics might have their limitations. Whenever I tried to get juicy or drippy, I thought I was going all out, but it always came up a little short. There are so many variables with each action. No matter how many times I turned the painting around, there were always new things to be done. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago A very nice study! and as you can see, this type of approach can go on and on seemingly endlessly. Now you know why Woman, I is dated 1950-52...that's a lot of painting!
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. I was hoping for a few more specific comments if you have time. I learn a lot from the comments you have made on other paintings. Is it significant that you called it a study and not a painting? Would love a little more direction. Thanks.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Hi Lorinda, this seems like a study to me since it's very thinly painted and doesn't employ any of the vigorous editing (scraping, smearing, redissolving) that is the crux of dK's work. This painting is light and airy given the thin washes of translucent color you've employed with open areas of the support left in reserve, but for the same reason, it lacks the gravity of all save dK's very last works. I'd encourage you to keep going and treat what you've done so far as just the opening salvo!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Last Friday in March...
11 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Wait a minute....you've started your Pollock for next week! :-)
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hey Candi, nice tasty candy colors! As you'll hear next week (if you don't already know), you did something very similar to what Pollock did in a painting called Full Fathom Five. I'm not going to steal my own thunder here, but essentially you've encased your composition within a skein of splattered paint that ties your disparate elements together and provides an "allover" quality to your painting. This is a bit of an artificial solution, but one that opened huge creative pathways for Pollock. For your painting, I wonder if you could approach the painting again with brushes while attempting to maintain this allover quality of your painting....
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey...as always I love to hear what you have to say. It really helps. I will see what I can do with brushes, but here is what I think I figured out from this week. deKooning, IMO, was all about breaking up the space by multitude paint stroke shifts and color. Instead of playing the record at 33, he was at 78 with a very complex symphony to create, already pictured in his head. Because he had an end game he worked to get each gesture the way he wanted by reworking. Always being open to experiments. What was tough for me is that I could only really go slow, since I did not have an end view in mind on what I wanted to achieve. This made it hard to let go. I think I kind of get it now, but to get better I will really need to work on it a great deal more. I do think Pollock will be easier in some respects, as I saw trying to learn deKooning an ongoing challenge, but a good one. I feel I also know his work so much better than before this week. Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming agreed! dK is all about wild frenzies of painting....interspersed by long period of looking and thinking (and smoking and drinking).
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Ahh now I understand what I am missing - running out for some smokes and a bottle of red - back in a few
12 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich about 1 month ago Love the color selection and intermixed forms. To make this a de Kooning, take a 1-3" brush (depending on the painting's size) and some thin, somewhat transparent black paint and attack the canvas with sweeping gestures. To make it a Pollock, the painting needs drips and pours...in many layers. The splats are, well, just insignificant splats on bold, lumenous colors. Maybe save this as a base painting for Pollock week.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago here is a photo of the de Kooning experiment--it was a lot of fun--i painted over the b newman experiment and used linseed oil, venetian turpentine, galkyd, and ordinary turp. i wanted to use a few other things with the oil paint- but i couldn't get the caps off of the containers--i really hate those childproof caps! ... Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago My eyes like the flow of this very much.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Yes I hate those adultproof caps too. Usually I just attack them with a knife! This is an interesting canvas Penelope, and I like how you can see some of the history of the painting, as if it had come to fruition through iterations of painting. I think your palette is interesting, although your yellow might have somewhat too high of a chroma for this combination, and I also like how your gestures have widened and somewhat deepened to be zones within your composition. However, I think the balance between painting and drawing is out of whack since your black lines lack the luscious quality of many of your other paints, and they don't interact sufficiently with the adjacent applications of paint to maintain the sense of soace that your painting otherwise conveys. The lower left and upper right of the black marks are interesting as they engage the rest of your painting, but otherwise they tend to flatten out at the painting's center, which has a deadening effect to my eye. My advice...(you guessed it)....is to keep going, perhaps by repainting the blacks in a high luster, and then refining their edges with brushstrokes of other colors. The key to so many dK paintings is to alternate these painting and drawing steps until they have battled to a draw.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago This is very luminous almost spiritual.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi, I appreciate it.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
13 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Thanks, Corey, I appreciate your comments. I love criticism! I will take your advice and continue to work on it---
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Lulu--I appreciate your comments--it's very helpful to mel to hear what you think.
John Valentich about 1 month ago
This looks VERY de Kooning to me! I wouldn't add any additional paint. Just turn it 180o so that the viewer's eye is drawn up the black lines to the very warm area at the top.
John Valentich about 1 month ago New Painting Angst Set in Stone (Oil and Acrylic on Canvas) This painting is based on a photograph I took at a building demolition site.
Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Tried to a dude again (actually this started from a picture of Jack Nicholson). Dude 2. I am not sure I will ever be as loose as dK, but I think this is looser than my usual and closer to his
14 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
palette. When I keep working things they sometimes get better defined rather than more gestury ( is that a word?). I also think personal taste comes in to this...how far are you wiling to emulate. Here is what throws me a bit. His figure faces are very cartoonish and flat, but the bodies are not. They suggest physical bodies with depth. My question is to look like dK do I have to go for a cartoon face with a weird mouth and eyes? It would seem so.
My JP work is a blob that is not drying.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Hi all - We now have a FaceBook page called MOMAlicious 2012 - hope you like the title! I just put it up but I am not sure in the new FB format how to add all the little bits yet. However, if you want to like it or join it , then once I figure out how to make up all administrators, we can all upload whatever images we want to share and keep after the course is over. Or maybe you email me and I upload the images - anyone know the best way to do this? my email is [email protected] if any one needs it for future reference.
paula J swett about 1 month ago bless you lulu. I love the idea of posting after the class as i will have more time when summer is here
15 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago As long as you have A FB account you can post pictures the way you have it set up. I have been in a group where members could create albums, too. See if that is an option you can turn on.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to paula J swett Great Paula!!! We can continue the fun on FB.
dana len about 1 month ago thank you for setting that up lulu! great idea!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to dana len Welcome! I realized it is MOMAlicious 2012 and not MOMAlliscious no S!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago undefined Don't you guys love the new UI updates? The What's New button in red identified the discussions that have been updated when you click on it. Switch to the new interface---you can now see the threads grouped within a discussion and look at them in order...only them if you like. Notice how the button to Write a Post is red and then Save & Post is red when you are writing the post, to improve the navigation.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Here is the first draft of my dK figure, Moose 1 Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago No matter the style...love the cat and the look on the face, Merren. Moose has character.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thank you, Candi! Moose is Himself, no doubt. Tongue firmly in cheek I knew I had to paint him in response to dK's Woman I.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Nice start, now get into the medium! I'd love to see you take the rather tight figure you've created thus far and gamble it on the application of runny paints applied slow and
16 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
carefully and then explosively with force. Test how the gestures of your own body can trace the contours you've already laid down. Test how these gestures are then subject to the resistance supplied by the physicality of your paint, and how you can change those variables as well. A great start getting your feet wet, now dive in!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thank you Corey. I think I understand what you mean. We'll see how it goes...cue the bagpipes!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago First painting acrylic and oil I jumped ahead in week 2 and did this De Kooning experiment with oil. The red and white is oil and everything else is acrylic. The acrylic has of course dried fast but as I mixed olive oil with the oil paint it took since week 2 to dry. That portion looks very yummy. the white oil paint looks much thicker than would an acrylic white paint and I like the way it keeps the brush strokes very well defined. the black you see is taking charcoal and working the lines into the wet paint. Second painting Bye Bye Planet acrylic A hybrid in that I painted over something so there was already a thick underlayer. I was going to also paste newspaper over the old image but then did not. - Bye Bye Planet collage remains lower corner. My intent was to do a male version of De Kooning's woman but it did not turn out that way. I decided to keep the skeleton sideways with the flaming hair from the old painting. I painted over the old background using blues and turquoises. I painted the big image using black acrylic paint and reshaping the face. I keep one of the eyes from the previous painting but the canvas had been turned sideways so had to do a new eye on one side. I am doing a series called Black Dick so this gent had to have one of course. FYI this series is a comment on how paranoid and prejudice still many Whities are of the power of the black male and I chose to go with the most threatening symbol of black male power. Yeah so it's obvious but fun. For many years, I keep coming back to a black male figure in the style of Basquiat a la Lulu so this type of image is home turf for me. In places I used ink and watercolour crayons on top, plus one of the eyes has gel impasto to achieve thickness. I will need to do another one from scratch, not painting over anything, in order to practice being Lulu De Kooning and doing another Black Dick painting. As a take of on a popular new hip hop song, it will be called Black City Dick.
Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago
17 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I really like "Bye Bye Planet"....colors and subject.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks Candi. Don't really like it myself but it kinda works. Not really De Kooning style though - will be doing my De Kooning Man next.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lulu, very cool painting! and a bewildering combination of materials! it will be interesting to see how your paint that contains olive oil ages. Olive oil is a non-drying oil, so you may find that it eventually separates out of your paint and leaks down the face of your painting (or it may get absorbed into the ground if it's quite absorbent). dK also loved to prolong the drying periods of his paints so he made great use of safflower oil, another cooking oil like olive oil, but it has the critical difference that it is a very slow drying oil rather than a non-drying oil. Anyway, your painting is quite an experiment, so I'd love to hear what happens to it over time. I also like how you've channeled the psychological dimensions of dK's, Woman, I into new sexually and racially charged territory. For a group of painters often called abstract expressionists, there's typically a lack of expression, but you've hit on one of the exceptions to that issue for sure. The influence of Basquiat is clear, but I think you could challenge yourself to take the scrawl into a more painterly direction, something that neither dK or Basquiat did. Cy Twombly touched on this idea at times, and artists like Cristopher Wool have again in more recent times. What happens when you take the scribble, the body's involvement alternately of graffiti tags and gestural abstract painting, and combine it with fleshy, luscious paint? I like this idea and I think you should keep charging ahead!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine OMG man set the bar high for me or what!!! Corey Q "What happens when you take the scribble, the body's involvement alternately of graffiti tags and gestural abstract painting, and combine it with fleshy, luscious paint?" A : If I can pull that off, I will achieve Nirvana, will die a happy woman but will not make the next class so carry on without me and raise a glass. Of course, my work will be worth more once I've kicked off so I can amend my Will and put you in Corey. xxx hugs you are a BRILLIANT commentator and know just where to push. I want to bring you a little present from Vancouver when I am New York and hope you are free for a coffee. THANKS
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago I wanted to say that I really think your painting Every Girl really feels like a de Kooning derivative much more than bye bye planet. I find my eye is more interested in looking at the marks and the colors. From what I think I know of you from this class, it seems like you are up to Corey's challenge! I can't wait to see the results!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin
18 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
sounds good to me Lulu, I accept any and all gifts from Nirvana!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Thanks Lisa and yes I think Every Girl is more De Kooningish! Dunno if anyone can aspire to achieving Corey's challenge let alone me.But I am going to give it one hell of a try! I love your work from last week.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago I think you and de Kooning are partners in crime! :-) I am a pretty AR gal and this week terrifies me....I am going to throw on some loud bagpipe music and go for it like you do!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I wish I knew how to delete the attached file. Here is the latest version "Woman Going Crazy Attempting de Kooning". So I have no problem reworking the image. I still feel like I have no clue what I am doing and why.
Attachments:
7015509639_b1c9488c7c_b.jpg
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago You got the gestures going on Candi!
19 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Maybe you could try another one with more muted colours - less strong colours. Or keep painting on this one - just build up the layers. Concentrate on the gestures and do not worry about the colours. Best done after 2 1/2 glasses of a sturdy red wine to your favourite music played loudly. So unpop that cork, gal and go to it. (Sadly, no wine for me as then I want to SMOKE - I am an ex smoker. )
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Candi ooooooooooooh it's working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Liking it. Keep going gal!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I kind of liked it here....I have to do more? OMG! Still am not sure what I am striving to hit. Lulu...what a taskmistress you are. Corey??? Guidance required, although I might be beyond it by the time you read this.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming It's gorgeous the way it is and if you are happy with it, then it is done.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Hi Candi, I agree with Lulu that you should continue on and engage the process (actually I gave her the same advice!). Don't fall in love with your achievements here, instead recognize that they can become more interesting if scraped down, wiped out, or otherwise obliterated before taking the painting further. Be specific - what works about this painting for you? So in your next session, work on doing more of that, or bringing that quality to other regions of the painting. Don't be afraid to overdo it, since you can always scrape that away and revisit your ideas again and again.....a painting is never done, it only escapes from the easel!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I took the advice and kept going. Acrylic is a little tough to scrape. Now she has Angie J lips, looks more defined, but still crazed. I do not think she looks de Kooning enough (not enough thrashing or gesturing) and is probably too pretty. I do like her myself. This is now called "Searching for Willem dK" . You will notice I have mounds in a couple of places and a pink thing that could be a tongue. I really do not have my own symbols at this point. I cannot believe I am painting a woman for this, especially from where I started. Hopefully the rest of you do not think I am a thread load by continuing to post my journey of dK discovery. So, a new version, same name, from this morning to the far right. Needed a flash--iffy light...looks a little on the yellow side.
20 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin And I thank you for your support! I did keep going and she emerges. Who knew?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I did as you asked see above.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Hi Candi, I think you've discovered why de Kooning never experimented with acrylic paint! That rapid drying time prohibits many of the painterly effects that make his paintings tick. Still, I think you can maintain much of his approach in an additive way with acrylics and I like the direction you're taking...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I hate the smells associated with oils, so acrylics suit me better. I cannot tell you how many times I keep going back looking at his work and then trying to apply what I see. This is a good exercise and the learning comes from the doing.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming I like the shift in palette and the stronger line work to ground it! I think you should open up the top of her head more to the thoughts swirling about.
Tyler Newhouse Herrick Newhouse about 1 month ago de Kooning has fascinated me for quite some time, and his work has had a great impact on a great deal of my work, so I think I'll try to put up several of them over the course of the week, roughly in chronological order of their production. The painting attached here was finished about a year and a half ago, is oil on canvas, and
21 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
measures 4 ft x 3 ft. The underpainting was a rough sketch of my corner as viewed from my second story window, and was abstracted from there. Attachments:
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Beautiful! I think this has a lot of space and movement even without knowing it began as a view from a window.
kristen lyn morrison about 1 month ago Hi, I worked on this today and am letting it dry. I may go back in to define the figure some more. I used acrylic on cotton paper. Hopefully I will get one done on canvas too. Not sure about the oils as I seem to be allergic to them thought I do love oil paint. Kristen Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kristen, this is an interesting start, but I think you should move forward by turning your drawn passages of paint into denser forms or planes. Begin by connecting some lines that already suggest some kind of volume, and begin to develop some kind of pictorial space in the painting. Don't worry if you lose the drawing element too much, since you can always bring that in again on top, either in paint or in dry medium like charcoal, either over the paint or directly into the wet paint. sounds like fun, right?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago So shifted gears..attempted to emulate his drive by abstracts, which I like.
Then I did "Paparazzi Blossom" and used a bunch of iridescent white and gold to represent light bouncing off of her. This was for fun. A celebrity on the red carpet.
22 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I ADORE your woman!
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Slapped this Acrylic on with a palette knife onto an old painting of mine that had been kicking around since I painted it in Saigon. I was fresh in after a holiday at the beach and thought to try to catch some waves. Enjoy the knife immensely as it leaves no 'brush' marks. Acrylic is good because it doesn't smell but dries far too quickly for this kind of picture and so I can understand dK's preference for oil. I came back to this work after an hour or two and could do nothing more with it as it had all dried, all but one piece of white which jumped in an arc.
Whilst taking a break of my own, I set the piece down on a wall at the end of the bathroom, trying to read my painting, trying to see if there was anything in it.I spotted a face and turned the piece around and found to my horror a 'woman' of my own. The woman's head is lying on the beach. Her head formed by the white arc- the final touch before the acrylic set. Spooky! Attachments:
23 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
dKTempest
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago All of these dK type paintings in acrylic, you guys are making my job difficult! and yikes, scary subliminal de Kooning misogyny creeping into your painting....but I really like how you've measured the canvas with your brush, this might be a subliminal remnant from Ryman week too. If you're frustrated by the drying periods of your acrylics, you can add a gel retarder to your paint, but these will only lengthen the working time marginally, nothing on par with the extended times of de Kooning's paints. Just the same, you can continue working wet over dry, or you can be a bit more aggressive with your scrape and flay into the paint layer. I think your painting has a quietness that is inhibiting its growth, so you might deliberately introduce problems (colors that don't make sense, gestural marks where they don't seem to belong, etc.). This way, you're challenging yourself to deal with problems that weren't necessary, and in doing so, you'll not only make the painting more difficult (a trademark de Kooning device) but you'll also raise the bar of the potential interest of your painting. Easier said than done though - the hard part is meeting that potential!
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Woman washed up on a beach
24 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago If this were in oils I could
pursue it further...if I were to dare!
25 of 25 5/11/12 7:51 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 5: Woman as Beast Penelope Rothfield 18 days ago mary abbott I found this interesting post today via hyperallergic on the abstract expressionist artist Mary Abbott who was a lover of DeKooning's and who made many paintings that are very very similar in many ways to de Kooning's landscape paintings. if you would like to read it i am posting it herehttp://bigthink.com/asher-edelman/mary-abbott-a-wake-up-call
Lauren Clarke 18 days ago I vote "no", to being offensive, and here's why... Provocative, yes. Offensive, no. (if genitalia were mutilated or something grotesquely off I would say yes) Artists throughout time have been exploring human relationships and it is easy (or more likely impossible not to) gather from our personal experiences with family/gender/sexuality and infuse them into our artwork. Hearing deKoonig's personal experience with his mother and wife helps the viewer to understand he may rightfully so be a bit messed up in his relationship to women. Sounds like he had his own share of personal demons as well. Women and men deserve equal positive and negative treatment as they become personified in artwork (this is pervasive in the art of music). As a stepmother to a beautiful child that I care for full time, I can say from personal experience that 'there really should be an application for motherhood.' Some woman that on the surface seems she really may have it together can in reality be a very destructive person. Sorry to make it personal, but what is art if not something subjective. Throughout art history, the female figure and psyche has been glorified and beautified and romanticized. Why is it all of a sudden something jarring and brusque and slightly skeletal, is it misogynistic? The very fact that this painting has been hotly debated for the past 60 years makes it a success on some level.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago With this kind of image one reacts emotionally and intellectually. My personal take on Woman I is one of confusion. I am not sure if she is scary or grotesque, though I would not call her beautiful. Her form appears distinct from and then disappears into the background, so I spend a lot of time just trying to find her. I only just realized a couple of days ago that she has hair. The art world of today--creators, commentators, and consumers--agree that art is not only about making Beautiful Things. So intellectually I find this art to be very powerful and interesting, even inspiring. I do believe and scientific research shows that there are physiological and psychological differences between men and women, but we are all human. I'd rather be a humanist than a feminist. So we have a right to make art about any subject, including one another. Woman I is not so much a woman painted by a man as it is Willem deKooning's painting about women (maybe not all? maybe all) whom he knows.
1 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Maybe a better way to see this is an unattractive person or someone not loved. Too bad he called it Woman 1, because maybe if it had no title you might consider it was a transvestite. It could still be that even with that title, and wouldn't that be interesting? I could see where the female form was idealized for hundreds of years and if you wanted to change that depiction, expose the unseen, this would be a possibility. It continues to interest me that male artists really focus on the breasts. At the Louvre, so many paintings have one or both exposed for air. That being said if the point of this is to express how one might see another person, than I do not think it matters what the sex is. I do not think it is a bad thing. It is a view. One of many and one to learn from---than use to express your own view. I do not know if I am quite bold enough to completely do it. I have ideas...just do not know if I would paint them and put my name on it.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Since you couldn't take the painting home, I'm guessing you bought the catalog for the MOMA retrospective. I don't have any comprehensive books about de Kooning's art. Is this THE one that's worth getting?
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Yes Yes Yes. It's a brillaint book.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Lorinda: Actually, I'm thinking she voted for dK 3 or 4 times. This explains the bizarre result of him beating out Jackson!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich If the "she" you are referring to is me, you are incorrect in your assumption. I also prefer to be referred to by my name please.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Technically not possible...only one survey vote per customer, but if you could have voted multiple times, would you pick dK?
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Yup
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago When I first saw this "live" at MOMA a few years ago, I was transfixed. I stood in front of it for 15 minutes. Then I kept coming back to it after looking at other artists' work.
2 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Yes this image is brutish but who says women have to be beautiful? Screw Beauty! There is strength in this woman. Her breasts are like armour, her teeth sharp and eyes wide open -nothing gets by her. She is fearless and solid. His use of vigourous gestural strokes and in some places almost clashing colours adds more POWER. I think that is what people react to. A strong woman unfraid to take a stance and protected by her breasts as armour. she does not invite the viewer's passive reaction -she is not posing for any approval,. Au contraire! This painting is a mass of complexity of lines and methodology. It took me half an hour to finally walk away from this painting. My soul still belonged to Basquiat, my No. 1 Main Man, but on that day I made some room in my love cupboard for Mr. de Kooning. I went to the De Kooning exhibition over Xmas last, HOLY SHIT what an exhibition and could this man paint. His abstracts blew me away. Again, I stood in awe for ten minutes before one particular painting (I think it's called Interchanged).I asked the guard if I could trade MOMA my soul for it, but all he did was laugh, but heh man, I was serious. (PS MOMA guards are very cool!.) Two older guys were also mesmerized by it so I asked them if they'd be interested in helping me heist it but darn, my purse was not big enough to fit it.(JOKING here!). De Kooning had his poo poo together in a vast range and in such a way that is totally different from anyone else, I emerged from the exhibition with De Kooning as My No. 2 Main Man. I started to ponder how to paint a combo or I guess a trio painting - a Lulu Basquiat de Kooning? A lifetime alone is necessary to study De Kooning before that would happen, but I'll die happy trying. I also want to do some De Kooning abstracts - WOW oh WOW oh WOW. The man was Fcking brilliant . MOMA if you need anyone to come and live with the stored De Koonings to make sure they are happy and not lonesome, someone to whisper sweet nothings to them and tell them I Love You, 'll be there in a flash.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Lulu, I'm guessing you voted for De Kooning in our poll the first week! I am not offended by Woman I at all. It is such a damn good painting -- one of the highlights of that phenomenal exhibit at MOMA. When thinking about evaluating artists, I think about how far I would travel (with associated expense) to see an exhibit. I have traveled across the country specifically to see the De Kooning exhibit and one a few years ago of Cezanne at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. This summer I am going to see the new Clyfford Still museum in Denver but only because we have family in the area. Still is an interesting case. Even Clement Greenberg in "American-Type" painting had trouble with him at first (pp.208-209 of Reading Abstract Expressionism) but then approved of his paintings after he began seeing a few of them in isolation. This is interesting because Still always wanted his paintings to be together and that has now come to pass in a whole museum dedicated to his work.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I took holidays and travelled specifically to see the MOMA De Kooning exhibition. Well worth every penny.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I don't find this painting misogynistic. And I certainly think it is acceptable for a man to paint such an image. I find the image to be mythic and archetypal. To me it is dealing more with the psyche
3 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
and the role a woman plays in a man's life as a very powerful figure. The mother with the capacity to give love and sustenance or to withhold it. The lover with the capacity to to beguile, entrance, nurture, excite, infuriate, confine, frustrate, accept, reject. It's not all flowers and rainbows out there in psyche land.
John Valentich about 1 month ago In talking about dK's women, aren't we thinking about his paintings too objectively, as representational images, when they're fundamentally abstractions?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago What we do not know was de Kooning's intent with this depiction. He did not seem to know either from the discussion question. Each viewer chooses to interpret a work in their own way and might not always care to know the artist's intent. I am beginning to think mystery and not revealing intent makes it more intriguing. It allows viewers the freedom to decide for themselves (which I think someone else said in another class discussion thread). That promotes universal appeal...each viewer has their own story for the work that personalizes it for them. The other thing that impacts view is time and experience. We are not looking at this work like people of the 1950s, so I think views vary depending upon where we are in time.
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Excellent points. Maybe Woman has nothing to do with women per se but is a generalization (an abstraction) of the decadence, kitsch and excesses of modernity dK observed on the streets of lower Manhattan. I think I remember reading that these "urban landscape" scenes frequently informed his paintings, even his pure abstractions.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago At SFMoma there is a show of Reneke Dikestra. Within the show is a video she did of british school children looking at Picasso's Woman Weeping and talking about the painting and what it represented. It is brillant and the children come up with wonderful and accurate descriptions of why she may be crying and why he may have painted her that way. They have no knowledge of Picasso and Dora Maar but the emotion of the image still comes across. Its a great piece to watch. It is difficult to look at work as an adult after reading and hearing so much about work to dismiss some perspectives over another. I am attracted and repulsed by this work as I am to the work of Francis Bacon who was treating the body in a similar manner or even the paintings of Lucien Freud. It is wrong to dismiss a body of work because of a single perspective. This painting in particular is tough because of the brutality of the image, color and the fierceness of the brushstrokes. It is hard to look at, as is the ugliness, brutality in our own selves is difficult to see. Sometimes the initial reaction to a work of art says more about the viewer then what the painter intended.
I like what Lulu says about seeing this as a strong, warrior woman. A woman who can put up with the difficulties and violence of life and fight back and win. Those words made me look again, reconsider and reminded me that great work has depth and multiplicity that changes over time. A great work is always interesting to look and think about, even when you find it repulsive. That is,
4 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
at times, fertile ground to ponder.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago I had another thought after I listened to Ann Temkin's audio comments. She describes this painting as being one that dK struggled with for over one year, deleting, scrubbing, repainting over and over again. She talks about it as a war he had with the canvas, the image, the paint. If I take this down that path, I reconsider this painting as the artists' struggle for expression, for mastery over the materials, the image and for the ability to take what is in one's head and translate it to the canvas. She refers to the canvas as a battlefield and what we see is the aftermath of that conflict.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod I can relate to that - canvas as battlefield Yes it does look as though he struggled but he kept on until he had mastered his expression. For myself, I find if I paint from my "head" it rarely works. My process is typically that I have a idea, scribble a bit on the canvas and then I get into the "flow" and lose all consciousness as the process takes over. Then I come up for air probably after an hour or so, stand back and see what Heaven or Hell hath wrought! For me, doing sketches first or detailed drawings on the canvas is a death toll and results in paintings that I paint over, and over, and over, and over , and over - well you get the idea. And then they land up as Bye Bye Planet - god knows how many times I have painted over on that canvas - it has at least 6 different paintings now buried underneath. That is why the surface is so bumpy and very difficult to work with now. It started life as a comment on how we are killing the planet with overconsumption and the little toxic skeleton guy depicts that will be the death of us all - greed! So it is not one of my Black Dick series really, which started before this class and are much more abstract. The one I am currently in love with is called Black Dick Rising..
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin This week I can relate to the battlefield conflict. I am still not loose enough for dK.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming More red wine perhaps?
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin i agree LuLu (btw I love your name...)--I also cannot paint from "the head"--i get so bored if i have a painting all planned out in advance....
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago well--i guess i do find "Woman, I" offensive (does the title mean Woman number 1 or Woman I myself....). when i saw the Woman paintings at the de Kooning show not too long ago, I was so depressed by them. i mean i just didn't want to look at them at all and i felt a bit nauseous which
5 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
i take as real information. I can't look at a painting for the first time and just think of it from a technical point of view. It affects me or it doesn't. -- I admire de Kooning hugely--i read his biography years ago and I don't know why his problems with women didn't really make an impression on me at the time--i must have read it the way some people read "War and Peace"--you know, by skipping over the war scenes to get to the good parts. I salute his work ethic and try to emulate it although i'm sure i won't clock in as many hours in the studio as he did--but if i did, even if no one else got anything out of my paintings--i would consider my life a huge success---just to do the work every day like he did is a success. I even used only a 6H pencil for long time because i thought i read somewhere that de Kooning only used a 6H pencil until a kind instructor gently suggested i try another pencil after watching me tear and gouge at the paper i was working on.....My favorite painting of his is the "Tree of Naples" (i think that's the title) BUT I want to say before blabbing on for too long here that i find all of the comments here very persuasive and also Corey's suggestion that we look beyond the offensive surface of the painting is a great one and I think i will take all of this into consideration in looking at the painting again.....
6 of 6 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 6: Classroom Discussion Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago I have a couple of questions: 1. Is anyone else having a hard time finding oil based enamel? i haven't been able to find any at home depot, ace, etc. except for rust proofing oil based enamel which only comes in black and white. which i guess is fine, but....wondering what other people have experienced or perhaps everyone else is wanting to paint with acrylic enamel.... 2. Corey--you mentioned in the studio demonstration that brushes that have become hard and otherwise unusable are actually useful for dripping paint. Well, I think i read a long time ago in an interview with Susan Rothenberg that she NEVER washes her brushes. She said (I think) that she likes having the old paint residue on the brushes....So my question is: (if you know the answer...) how does she do it???!!! I mean I believe she paints with oil paint--i I both admire and envy her casual attitude since i myself have been called "SO messy" so many times! I want to be like her and never wash my brushes but i don't have the courage! Do you have any thoughts, Corey, on this or insights into this as a kind of way of working? 3. Oh, one more thing, Corey. I am so glad you posted the Gutai Manifesto-- I love artists manifestos! I wrote one for myself once and it was really fun--I'm not sure that i agree with everything i once wrote but it's a really fun way to try to think about what it is that one really values and is interested in as an artist. And also it seems like today no one wants to take a stand on anything--you know? everything is "ambivalent" so it's kind of fun and really kind of powerful to just sort of write well hey this is what i really think.....
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Yes, alkyd enamels are harder to find now as the industry switches to acrylics, but you can still find them at good paint stores. Benjamin Moore, Janovic, etc.... Yes I heard that story too, and I don't full believe it. Either that, or she buys a lot of new brushes and paints with them before they're gunked up! Rough marks are easily made with rock hard brushes, but subtle ones are next to impossible... and Yes again! I agree that artists today are afraid/unable to declare fixed meanings about anything, typically "questioning" ideas (but what's the question?) or "investigating" issues (so where are the results?), but others would call me a curmudgeon for missing the days before irony and polyvalence became so widespread in art.
John Valentich about 1 month ago My Home Depot has both acrylic and alkyd enamels in dozens of colors. I don't see any advantage in using alkyd enamels. Corey nixed the only advantage I could come up with, ie. mixing them with oils. Am I missing something? Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich They do have a hard and glossy appearance that's hard to duplicate with oils, so if that's what you're looking for, then I think alkyd enamels are just the trick...
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I'm talking about acrylic enamels vs alkyd enamels. Given the ease-of-use
1 of 3 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
advantages of acrylic enamels and their ability to be mixed with acrylic mediums and tube paints, is there any reason to work with alkyd enamels? Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Yes, like oils, alkyds wet many pigments in a way that acrylics don't. And they don't have that plastic appearance that you might find irritating at times. or you might not!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Is there an easy fix for an overdrip..a.k.a a blob that landed in an unexpected spot? Or how can I do mini-corrections without wrecking my flow?
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Great question - I blobbed one I was doing and paper towelled it up but it for sure spoiled the flow.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago Candi--I had SO many drips that ended up as blobs in so many places i finally had to just accept them. In fact at one point i noticed that while leaning over the canvas that I had inadvertently let the paint can in my hand tip sideways and had unknowingly been dripping big drips all over the canvas. I had to accept that too. Sometimes--when i would switch to another paint color-- i would try to "connect the dots" of the previous drips, but i wasn't always successful--so i just kind of let it go...I ultimately try to look at these things as a kind of "serendipity"! Like "oh, what good luck"! Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield I hear you, Penelope. That happened with the aluminum paint. I got lucky today with my Easter Dripping...if the area is already pretty densely covered you can use a paper towel to blot it up a bit and it works. I think it really depends on how far you are and your plan. You might need a new plan, which I was trying to avoid ...oh well, this week goes better than dK week for me.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Are you saying you pre-determine were every blob on one of these paintings is supposed to be (;-)! ? In my experience (measured in days), trying to clean up a spot leads to a smear, ie an even bigger spot that looks out of place because the paint is too thin. Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich If I am using the paint stick than I can control blob placement a bit better, as long as I am not throwing it, just letting it flow. This morning I was throwing on a pretty built up surface, so blotting did appear to work for some blob placement I did not like. I do not mind them in early layers. I am not thrilled to see them in the last layer, unless I want them there. I guess it all depends upon blob size, and surface size. I did not want to go
2 of 3 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
very big canvases for these, as it creates other issues. Who knew we would be discussing this? I can think of no other place where I could.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago There's no magic recipe here, but you can wick up some stains with blotter paper or paper towels, perhaps wet with solvent. But if you look closely, you'll see that Pollock and other colorfield painters sometimes mixed ground colors and overpainted some inadvertent drips from previous paint applications to blend in with the background....
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hmmmmm....mixing ground colors and overpainting areas....I need to try this!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago So, should I let one color dry before adding another color when using the enamel? I ask because I did not do that and ended up with a pool of enamel.....taking hours to dry. I do not know that it is dry yet. I like the effect, but I really do not think that is what my end game should look like.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Sounds like you may have gotten a little carried away with the volume of paint you used! Pollock painted both wet in wet and wet over dry.
John Valentich about 1 month ago I'm using Behr Premium Plus acrylic enamels. Drips and splats dry to the touch within an hour. Bigger blobs take longer to dry fully, but you can add a different color layer over them without the colors intermixing.
3 of 3 5/11/12 7:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 6: Studio Discussion Calli Shelton about 1 month ago Pollock week - layer 1 - unprimed cotton duck, gloss black, aluminum and gray alkyd applied with wooden spoons and a cup
Layer 2 - after drying 24 hours, added gloss browns in two tones, almond and a lavender I mixed. I'll let it dry another 24 hours and do some more!
1 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich about 1 month ago Great idea using spoons...lots of versatility. Thanks for showing how your painting evolved. I always wonder about this when viewing Pollock's work, particularly the very dense paintings.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago looks like great fun! will you have a chance to crop it with stretcher bars and repost a finished painting? I hope so!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Impressive size and effort already. I love seeing the progress photos and how you approach the painting construction. Looking forward to seeing more.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Heh I really like the way this is developing. That is good to know to let the layers dry first as I did another one and did not like the bleed,. I like your palette too.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Thanks for letting us see how this is developed. I often wonder about Pollock's facture. I like the idea of using spoons to create varied ways of applying paint. How do you get canvas of this size so flat? The stuff I buy is folded and would form gullies for paint to pool unless pulled flat on stretcher bars. Do you buy canvas in a roll?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich I bought my linen in a roll from Dick Blick...very handy.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich buying canvas on a roll will make it less likely that the canvas will wrinkle. But if you find yourself with a piece of rumpled canvas you can mist it all over with water and just let it lay out flat until it dries--that sometimes works. Calli Shelton about 1 month ago Layer 3 - artist oil in ultramarine blue, more gloss black, white, gray and brown applied with a hardened brush, cup, turkey baster and wooden spoons.
2 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi Corey, yes, it should be done and dry enough to stretch in a couple of weeks.
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich John, yes I buy rolled canvas because I like to work big and, as you said, the folded stuff doesn't work for that unless you stretch it first. And, being able to frame exactly the part (or parts) I want is important to me. Sometimes I frame the whole thing, sometimes I break it up into pieces.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Calli, this looks great! I like the density and your color choices. From this vantage point it looks as if there is a lot for your eye to work on, which is a characteristic I like in Pollock. Are you planning on photographing a horizontal view of it? Calli Shelton about 1 month ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Hi Lisa, thanks for the encouragement. :) Yes, I'll take a better pic of it soon!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Calli Shelton Calli - That is amazing. I can't wait to see a photo of it stretched and hanging. I can tell you are into Pollack!
Michael Clifford 28 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Great stuff Calli. What were you listening to as you did it? Jazz, punk or just the splish slash of the paint?
Calli Shelton 27 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford Thanks, Michael. I was actually listening to dub step....Pretty Lights is the name of the
3 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
band.
Calli Shelton 21 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton This painting turned into the monster on my floor...I fought with it, pleaded with it, splashed more paint on it...nothing worked. I hated it. Then my husband suggested taking a page from Rothko's book and applying a paint wash. Voila! I like it again! Now for some thin stringy highlights maybe? Attachments:
Merren Booth 19 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton This is very coherent! I love the way the colors layer.
Candi Imming 19 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton I have been putting washes at the beginning, then dripping. It is nice to see it works later, as well. I think it looks excellent now. Great all over work and you eye moves. I am impressed that it is big, too. Lovely effort, Calli.
Calli Shelton 15 days ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks, Merren - I think it's almost done but it might need a little "brightening"....still thinking about it. :)
Calli Shelton 15 days ago in reply to Candi Imming I always did the same order, too, Candi - washes then drips. This was my husband's idea - sometimes it takes those "fresh eyes", huh? :)
Michael Clifford 11 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Thanks for the heads up on the Pretty Lights. I love the way they put their own turn on music, something akin to what we're doing here with the painters' paintings.
John Valentich 6 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Have you taken your painting beyond the washes shown in the last photo. I think highlights would make the painting regain its former (before the washes) pop. I'm curious to see how you handle this.
4 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
kristen lyn morrison 18 days ago What wonderful paintings everyone is doing. Hopefully I can catch up before the course ends. My Pollack 1 and the under painting are on a 46 x 56 unprimed but washed multiple times painters cloth. Corey, what is size on canvass? Something added to the canvas before it is sold or is it something the artist adds later? My palette was dictated by the spring weather and what ever was on sale at the local hardware stores. Most are flat house paints but i decided to try different decorative paints such as bronze, silver and copper paints. I even tried spray paint and mixed different glosses in with certain applications. Unfortunately it is very damp here and I had to bring my still wet painting, it has the consistency of jello, in the house. Hard to get through the doors. Thus it is still a work in progress. I had finished but it has not. I have put it in a room with a heater to try to stop the mixing that is occurring as I type. All I can say to that is no more "chaos, damn it!" Did anyone have trouble photographing? I had to try three different cameras before I could get any focus at all. Kristen Attachments:
Merren Booth 18 days ago Process photos are great to see! Love the finished piece and the canvas size obviously gave you freedom to make very active drips! I have trouble with the photography too. Indirect natural light (late afternoon) seems to be best, but not always....
Lulu Godwin 17 days ago in reply to Merren Booth For some strange reason I am obtaining the best results using the landscape night setting on my digital camera and photographing inside out of the sunlight with no glare.
Merren Booth 15 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I've got that setting on my phone camera....I'll give it a try thank you!
Corey d'Augustine 15 days ago Hi Kristen, size is a transparent layer applied directly to the unprimed canvas to seal it and prevent the paint from being wicked into it in an uncontrollable way. Some canvases are already sized when you purchase them, while others are not. PVA emulsion is a good choice for size, and Pollock used rivit glue for this purpose, which is actually an old commercial PVA. Haha, chaos is unavoidable when moving big wet paintings! I think your composition is quite strong and dynamic, although I see a greater density in the lower half that weighs down my eye a bit. Perhaps some additional white in the upper half of the painting would
5 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
balance it out, or of course you could crop off more of the top than the bottom and sides to hone in on an allover effect...
Candi Imming 15 days ago Kristen, that looks great! I think the photo turned out fine. I try to avoid flash and shoot in indirect light whenever possible, either early morning or late afternoon. Warm light...sometimes it is too cool and I get a blue shift.
Merren Booth 22 days ago I apologize for being so behind in my painting! Here is stage 1 of my Pollock attempt. I am thinking of adding a second layer of white and black, as in One: Number 31 or Lavender Mist. When I took the photos I played around my my vignette app to see how changing the colors changed the impact.
Attachments:
Candi Imming 22 days ago Merren, I really like your total drip approach...kind of like paint rain and love the colors, too. At first I thought the green was part of the painting, so the photograph of the whole effort produced a great image, too.
Calli Shelton 22 days ago Merren, I think that's a great idea to change the colors (especially to black and white) to be able to analyze the composition. I'm going to try that!
Merren Booth 22 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Thank you Calli! I am going to take a picture of my plastic dropcloth after I remove the finished canvas. :-)
Merren Booth 22 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Yes, it does help a lot with this kind of layered painting, I think. You can see if an area is weak or too strong. I sometimes have a hard time seeing values in colors!
Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago HI Merren, looks like a wacky and cool effort to me! You've taken the spatter that's often a gestural byproduct of Pollock's line and allowed it to dominate the entire painting. Rather than weave empty space together as Pollock often does, you've filled it with drop after drop of little chromatic explosions. It's a bit difficult to read the composition without having
6 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
cropped it and stretched the canvas, but it appears that there is a density of activity at the upper left that draws away from the allover quality that you've established elsewhere. Besides cropping, another of Pollock's methods to reduce the density of an area like that would be to drip white (or a very light yellow or cream color) over the darker area to optically lift it and add some more breathing room. That said, since your drop cloth looks so interesting too, I wonder if you should make another painting that clusters these little explosions in the center of the canvas before trailing off into blankness at the edges. Nice painting!
Calli Shelton 21 days ago Merren, I love this approach...something so measured about it. I tried something similar and ended up with something that looks to me like rain on a windshield. Attachments:
Merren Booth 19 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Yes, yours is really cool! Did you lift the canvas and let the paint run? I admit I was so anxious to catch up I didn't really think about what I was doing...not Pollock but I did enjoy it all the same!
Merren Booth 19 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thank you Corey! Yes, that corner was meant to attract the eye but I realize now with this kind of painting it should be either an all over composition or more a clearly created path. I should have strengthened that dark brown in other areas. I think I will submerge it again. I took a big sheet of black construction paper and worked on creating the drip lines Pollock used. It was hard! But now I understand what he was doing. I am so behind, I may try another Pollock in the extra two weeks at the end of class.
Corey d'Augustine 18 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton Very cool! I suggest keeping that approach in your back pocket since it may come in handy on some totally unrelated painting somewhere down the road....
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago WOW Merren too bad you are behind as I never saw these before but THEY ROCK. !!!
Merren Booth 18 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks Lulu!
7 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Calli Shelton 15 days ago in reply to Merren Booth No, no lifting and running - it was all done flat on the floor with flicks of a hardened brush - that seems to result in the little drops instead of long, coherent lines.
Merren Booth 15 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton well that's interesting! it does look like a vertical effect. Very cool!
John Valentich 29 days ago Second "Pollock" Painting Let's just say this painting was "inspired" by Pollock's Croaking Movement. I got way too timid with the brushstrokes and didn't have enough time to work the acrylic paint before drying set in. I'm definitely going to try this painting again using oils and the lessons learned from this attempt. Attachments:
Candi Imming 22 days ago John, I have been meaning to get back and say what a lovely painting! I like the colors and the design of it very much.
8 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich 20 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'm planning to show this at Art All Night Pittsburgh and it's a relief to hear positive words before going public! Lulu Godwin 18 days ago John these are like a crazy stained glass and IT WORKS - how big? you seem to like these colours as I notice them frequently in y our palette.
John Valentich 17 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin It's 18 X 24". I typically favor high chroma colors. We'll see how the Guston turns out and if I can bring myself to knock down the chroma enough! Michael Clifford about 1 month ago
Merren Booth about 1 month ago neat to see it still wet! Wouldn't it be nice to keep that quality, somehow?
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks Merren. Although the picture was taken under strip lights which adds to the 'wetness', I'm still very curious to see how it will dry... New territory for me this enamel!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago looks like a ton of fun to me! Since your painting looks like it has a tendency to pool in the center, you may want to paint more freely off of the edges. Also, if you have room, I
9 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
encourage you to work on a larger scale and on unstretched canvas. Both of these variables will allow you to get your entire body into the painting/dancing process, not just your fingers and wrists. Did the painting dry that glossy or is it still wet? If it's that glossy, let me get my hands on some lobster brand paint!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Very cool painting..love the colors. I wished I had red. I had the same experience with pooling....it was kind of interesting ...the color flecks still kept their individual color and it dried glossy. You can see some of the parts, but I painted over it again. I have to watch how much I throw paint on the canvas. I started letting them dry one color at a time, to avoid the pooling impact.
Michael Clifford 28 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine This stuff is still
pretty glossy when it's dry. How is 'glossiness' measured, and who wants some Lobster?
Michael Clifford 28 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford
10 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 28 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford wow, it sure is! ASTM (used to stand for the American Society for Testing and Materials) has developed a number of tests to measure gloss such as the one described here. There's a huge and weird world of this stuff out there! Conservators and conservation scientists sometimes make use of ASTM tests when examining new materials for potential use in conservation treatments or the storage of works of art.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I did not buy any alkyd enamel or similar type paint, so I did not get the lovely loopy drips so many of you achieved. I used regular acrylic paint and just threw it on the canvas, so it's mostly splatters It was fun, but in the future I would like to try the alkyd enamels because I love those lytical lines.
I took two photos of one of my paintings (JP#1A,#1B) because I was not quite satisfied with how the photographs came out. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kathy, agreed that these aren't very close to Pollock due to the materials you used, but these are both quite interesting paintings that recall works by Nikki de St Phalle who, among many other things, made her own guns to shoot paint at canvases in the 1960s. I like how you've opened up your palette to match the light hearted nature of its application with the greens especially vibrant and popping out of the network of short lines and splatters. It's also interesting how the size of your marks is quite consistent (likely due to the consistent viscosity of your paints and your own physical consistency in getting them down) so I wonder how this would look scaled up quite large. I can imagine that the marks would dissolve into a blur at a distance but then crystallize into discrete marks at close viewing distance. Perhaps this effect could be enhanced by narrowing the range of your palette as well. Could be interesting!
11 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine As always, thanks, Corey, for your helpful comments. I checked out Niki de Saint Phalle--pretty interesting.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Pollock painting My painting is 30 inches by 75 inches. I made it long enough to get lost in and thought I would crop it. But even though I like seeing sections in detail (see attached), I think I will keep it whole for now. The title Dogpatch comes from the area of San Francisco where it was made. Lisa and I worked independently but together at her studio in Dogpatch. We had a good time! Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Nice! That's great you did it together. How did you transport it? Did you work wet on wet? How did you find working on a painting so big (for me it would be big)? Was it easy to visualize what you wanted to do? Very lyrical look to this, Lorinda.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago very cool! I like the scale and palette of your painting, and I think you've established a very nice rhythm and allover composition. I think your marks tend to be a bit on the short side for some reason, and I wonder if your painting would flow even better if some of the marks were allowed to extend double their length now. Do the wrinkles bother you at all? If so, stretching will reduce them considerably, but if not, then they pose no structural problem to the paint. This likely occurred because you used water based acrylic enamels on an unsized canvas, so it shrank locally as each area of moisture dried....
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago this reminds me very much of an asian scroll. lit's almost as if you've unfolded different sections of the scroll for us to see a bit at a time. How neat that you and lisa were able to work together! Once I worked with a friend of mine side by side --we were both drawing with inks and charcoals, pencils, etc., and a couple of times she would lean over and add some things of her own to my work and I did the same to hers and actually it was quite helpful and made me think about a lot of things regarding my work.....so that's just an aside! in any case i like the repetition of the darker marks.....as well as the over all sense.... Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming I worked in acrylic and left it to dry for a couple of days before returning to pick it up. Then I rolled it loosely in brown paper to take it home. I didn't plan too much ahead except for the order of using the colors.
12 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Yes, I did use water based acrylic enamels on unsized canvas. The painting is stapled to the wall, so the wrinkles don't bother me much. When you refer to the shortness of the marks, you are probably looking mainly at the metallic pewter marks. I splatted those on with a stick and was afraid to keep in contact with the canvas too long because I wanted to keep it loose. Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Thanks, Penelope. John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: So, if you want an unstretched canvas to stay flat and and are applying lots of paint, alkyds are preferred over acrylic enamels? Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich Definitely. Alkyds don't contain water, which is what is the main culprit for shrinkage.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Maybe in the future, you could talk more about sizing. Your list just said Pollock: Rectangular format, unprimed and unstretched cotton duck. As I said, I don't mind (it shows the process and materials) but some people might. Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago This was a fun week, although I only produced two pieces! I used a combination of acrylic enamels, latex, oil paint and oil stick for each of the two. I used a combination of paint sticks, sticks, spoons, brushes and pouring directly from the can. It was a good exercise, I do think my favotite tool was the paint mixing stick. I liked the marks made by that the best. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lisa, these paintings are quite different despite working with similar materials and palettes. Although the 2nd has a rugged quality about it that I like, it also feels a bit too sketchy and unfinished. I wonder if you could give it a bit more finish without losing the roughness that makes it work now. Perhaps by integrating the black and white bit, but not thoroughly in an allover fashion. Your first painting has a nice flow to it, but I think the black is very dramatic in your chosen palette and you could be a bit more careful with it. It really leaps at the eye, and
13 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
because it's much denser at the left edge, the painting feels a bit out of whack to me. Maybe cropping off that edge would help a lot, you could easily find out just be turning it over or masking it with some white paper....
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Yes, those are my thoughts for those two pieces as well. I love this class! I wish I had more time to spend with piece... Thanks for the feedback. John Valentich about 1 month ago Pollock 1: The Recesses of My Brain The Recesses of My Brain (Acrylic and Acrylic E namel)
The Recesses of My Brain Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Wow, must be chaotic and busy in there!! This is a wild painting that takes the aggression of Pollock's early work and maintains it in his drip technique, which was developed largely to sublimate those tensions. The palette is screaming hot, and your composition is quite interesting in that you nearly establish an allover field before obliterating that quality through local accumulations of paint that take on the characteristics of biomorphic abstraction (via Gorky and the Surrealists that had such a great influence on Pollock).
14 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
These little creatures have a life of their own and demand the viewer's attention, whereupon they appear to be nothing more than dense, energetic conflagrations of the field. So you've established an interesting ebb and flow here between figure/ground relations and their total rejection. An interesting painting that commands the eye's attention, nice work!
John Valentich about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Wow, thanks Corey! Candi Imming about 1 month ago Like all the action and I think this painting could warm you up on cold day. Enjoying the colors.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago pollack experiment Hi All-- Here are some photos of the pollack experiment I've been working on. I started out by working with the memory I had of Pollack's "Lavender Mist". The first photo was taken right after I added a lot of black enamel drips. I compared the photo of my work with a photo of Lavender Mist and i was quite surprised to see how bad my memory of it was! Or perhaps i didn't really see it the first time around even though i thought i had....So I added more white on top of the black, thinking that the first go round had a bit too much black in it....but now i really don't know what to think....I found that dripping paint was much more difficult that i thought it would be! I also didn't really understand how really organized Pollack's drips actually are until i tried to do it myself and then i looked back at the photo of his painting..... So the painting is 39.5" x 60". I first used artist oil paint thinned with turpenoid, then with linseed oil, and finally with Galkyd to get it to flow somewhat. Then I added some powdered pigment --unbleached titanium white--as a kind of cigarette ash substitute. And lastly i dripped white then black then white enamel all around. the color looks different in the 2 photos--the second one looks a bit anemic--sorry about that! (the turkey baster technique, btw, didn't work for me at all....i ended up using chopsticks--worked pretty well...) Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I really like the #2 image for the color (the one on the left..non-anemic) and the rhythms...don't you enjoy making those lovely curvy lines? I used a paint stick for all of mine...when applying the enamel....and really enjoyed the flow of the paint. Are you going to keep adding? Looks very good to me.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Penelope, sounds like you got a lot of mileage out of this one! I agree that Pollock's technique is far more difficult to harness than it seems, and like so many painters from
15 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Mondrian to Mehretu, the skill comes in making a difficult approach appear effortless. In this case, I think that it's especially interesting considering how heavy, aggressive, and unresolved most of Pollock's early paintings are. As for yours, I like your use of memory - in fact I'm reminded by one of the weirdest and perhaps worst paintings I ever saw which was a portrait by Courbet of his wife painted from memory while he was in prison. A total disaster! I hope she never saw that painting! Fortunately yours is much easier on the eyes, but it does appear that you got a bit bogged down in certain areas where the density of line prevents the allover effect that free the viewer's eye to skim across the surface unhindered. I think that lower viscosity could help, as well as making sure that your feet keep moving, not just your hands!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks Candi--yes making the drip curves was a total blast! I don't think I'll add anything more to it--i frequently have a compulsion to "add just one more thing" and its ALWAYS a mistake and I know this and even as i add more stuff i can feel the mistake yet i can't help myself....trying to do better! must get a stop sign for the studio.... Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks, Corey, I appreciate your thoughts and your quick response! John Valentich about 1 month ago Nice! I like the subtle hint of pattern in your drips and the scattered blue-greens. marc brickman about 1 month ago i know we don't study her, but she is a rock in pollock's life and deserves so much credit as the brains behind the operation.. this is a homage to her Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Marc...what a great Idea! I love it..especially the color selection. Thanks!
marc brickman about 1 month ago untreated linen with household oil paint.. painted over 24 hours.. 4 panels.. Attachments:
16 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago wow! are these 4 panels to be shown together as 1 piece, or are they separate works? Your rhythms of paint are quite dense and strong, and a bit overwhelming to take in all at once! That's certainly not a criticism in a day when it's so easy to breeze by so many paintings in galleries without being struck. So....if that's your intent, than I think you should go with it and scale up your ideas considerably. The rupture between 4 breaks in rhythm from one panel to the next is interesting since they obviously have so much in common (palette, viscosity, distance from brush, etc.), but their flows are quite discontinuous and cause the eye to skip like a record...
marc brickman about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks for the comments..that means a lot. yes , they are meant to be 4 panels..shown together. comic strip in intention..to tell the story..
scaling up is definitely possible... but how do you transport? after you stretch or don't you stretch?..
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to marc brickman good! I was hoping that was the case. Yes, big paintings are always a bit of a pain to move and store, but often they're well worth it. My place is full of them! and yes, since your intervals are so important to your idea of multiple panels, I think they should be stretched nicely to make the intersection quite clean and linear (as opposed to loose edges of a canvas tacked to the wall).
marc brickman about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine once i clear the decks, i will try a larger version.. in the meantime i am going to post my version of de kooning and ryman which are now dry,..
Candi Imming about 1 month ago JP3. Acrylic wash of cadmium red light (since I do not have enamel in that color) and blotted. Then navy blue followed by yellow enamel drips. I think I achieved more density this time and I did try to hit the edges better.
17 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
John Valentich about 1 month ago At first I admired how evenly you distributed the drips. But then I noticed the yellows seem to be subtlely concentrated at the corners and center. Clever idea…nice painting! What's the purpose of blotting the CR wash? Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to John Valentich It makes it more uneven in color ... and more interesting to look at, but it can get lost in the dripping. Something more to explore. Thanks, John.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Canvas reuse---I had some paintings I did not like. Covered them with acrylic colors I did like, then dripped them. JP4--Easter Dripping ..this was a good learning experience..especially about hitting the edges every time. More colors and drip passes, too.
18 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
JP4--Easter Dripping
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I really like the combo of colours but if you will forgive me, I will apply Our Great Leader Corey's comment that he made to one of my drips to this re my white over top - I find the white somewhat overwhelming so maybe drip on top of it with other colours a bit? Maybe a bit of green.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago 1. Hurricane acrylic on canvas - this was an experiment a few years ago when I used little bottles of paint to pour and sticks to drip. I had just discovered a form of pourable paint (little bottles of craft paint_ and I was thrilled that I could drip and play with the paint in a different way than with a brush. 2. Christmas in Harlem newspaper, found objects, coffee grounds and acrylic (last white paint is oil) on canvas. hard to see the underlayers as some covered with newspaper but titanium white, black, gold etc then white oil based on top as last layer - bits of coloured newspaper peeking through. underpainting shows on sides - violet and stripes and stuff! I prefer Jackson Pollock's earlier paintings like the Totem pre-drip. I am now going back to work
19 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
on my inner Willie De K! Attachments:
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Do you think "Christmas in Harlem" looks a little like a dinosaur with teeth sticking out its' tongue? I like it no matter the title. I LOVE Hurricane...great colors for me.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Candi Imming Christmas in Harlem - I was staying in Harlem and on 26 December I went out in the morning and the sidewalks had all the wrappings from Christmas the day before bundled up ready to be collected- one had a little red heart. That is the joy of abstracts - everyone sees something different.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lulu, these are both very strong! I especially like your first canvas which contains a wild array of biomorphic forms dispersed nicely throughout the surface to achieve an allover effect. If you look for that quality in your second painting though, I think you'll find that the white skein of paint does some interesting things, but it also localizes the eye in specific areas of the composition rather than inviting it to wander restlessly over the entire canvas. In fact, this painting looks far more like that of another dripper, Andre Masson, who was one of the European influences that Pollock was careful not to mention. The palettes are quite different but both interesting, the first recalling a small canvas in the Guggenheim collection called Ocean Grayness. Lastly, I wouldn't suggest calling this experiment finished and heading back to dK land, but instead realize that both the application and compositional strategies you've developed here can be extended to there as well! Happy dripping (and squirting)!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks Corey for helpful feedback. Andre Masson - must check him out. Yes in Christmas in Harlem the second one appears dominated by the white house paint oil based dripped on top. It was a lot stronger than I had intended. In person the found objects stick out (I wanted anchor focal points) plus the newspaper is built out to a layer of over 1" in places so the white does not dominate as much. The underpainting is slightly violet and blue plus bits of colured newsprint show through. I think I need to put more black squigglies on top of some of the white as I agree the white is a bit too much and closes the painting in rather than opening it up. re Hurricane - I found that the quality of the paints (although cheapies from the dollar store) have stood up really well as it and some others in the same vein I painted 4 years ago. The flow quality allowed me to meander all over the place. I also liked the fact I could use so many colours. I am a Colouraholic. I have another 5 paintings in this style
20 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
done at the same time during my Jack the Dripper phase o - or maybe I now should refer to it as my Andre Masson phase! I MUST conquer my inner DeK HE IS FCKING OUTRAGEOUS and he speaks strongly to me. DeK is calling me back to the easel. Right now I don't want to include Jack the Dripper techniques into DeK as he is brilliant on his own. But a very interesting idea and thanks. I finished Jesus lives in Harlem next to the Deli from last week, and I am happy with the result, but I will consider whether some "dripping" can occur or whether that would be overkill. I will be spending Easter weekend trying to create something like DeK abstracts as I fell totally in love with those at MOMA when I was there over Xmas. You are a LUCKY man to work there and undoubtedly a very talented conservator and one hell of an excellent art teacher too! It is such fun to see everyone else's work and learn from your commentary. Hugs from Vancouver xxxx
John Valentich about 1 month ago I like the mix of vibrant colors in Hurricane but Christmas is compositionally much more interesting. My first thought is not Pollock but Anselm Kiefer.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago i love both of these LuLu--"Hurricane" is very psychedelic which i love! "Christmas in Harlem" is really interesting--it's a great idea to use coffee grounds--but i think you left out the cigarettes and ashes!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Brilliant idea -must use next time!! will rush out now and collect some butts off the sidewalk. Thanks
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I think ultimately I find Christmas in Harlem more intriguing, but I like the all-over quality of Hurricane better. I think this may be hurricane at a nice tropical resort, and that mojitos would be in order.
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Decided to go for Miles Davis and his Witches' Brew collection. I wasn't sure it was BeBop enough to start with, but as the fumes from
21 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the enamel paints took hold the painting expanded until it all got a bit too wet. Perhaps I should have more patience and wait until differing layers dry.
I've used B&W for the first pic so as not to let the background distract. The second pic is in colour and also taken under strip lighting. I'm keen to see what they look like in the daylight when they're dry.
The second pic s testament to how much fun I was having.I couldn't stop. Unstretched bits of canvas thrown on the floor- I was in the jazz man jive!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago love the length of #2, too!
Calli Shelton about 1 month ago I love these!
22 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago JP2...taken with flash. Heavy acrylic wash, blotted with paper towel to leave imprint. Very thin aluminum paint blobs smeared by stick. Navy blue dripping.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Nice one lady!
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago Both paintings are very musical--don't you think? i think of music when i look at them-- pretty cool!
Merren Booth about 1 month ago Again the second is stronger. I am glad I brought 2 canvases to the beach with me. You found a working rhythm!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Very nice Candi! Your painting has a nice scribbling energy about it, and the use of white is a nice technique to lift the painting and provide more pictorial space. I love the gestures that you've used, but like one of Kathia's paintings above, I think you have showed the edges too much respect by often doubling back away from them rather than blowing right past. While some of your loops are quite engaging, I think you could harness more energy of your gestures by sometimes disregarding the need to turn back toward the center of the composition. Regardless, your canvas has a very nice allover feel as its hard to keep the eye stopped in one area for more than a moment. a dynamic painting, well done!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Thanks everyone...appreciate the feedback. Thanks, Corey, I will mind the edges and hit them harder.
John Valentich about 1 month ago Both very nice! I generally love the "density" aspect of Pollock's drip paintings. Yours are much more open and I like how that forces my eye to zip from node to node.
23 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Terry Lee about 1 month ago Lovely Work!
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Thanks, John and Terry...I am working on adding a bit more density, but I find I like the lines on the thin side. Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I really like this one. It has such a fresh feeling of space and energy. I like the simplicity of the color choices as well.
Kathia G about 1 month ago Here are my first Pollocks! - I primed the first unstretched canvas, painted it with black enamel and began dripping the other colors. All the paints mixed and I got something I didn´t intend but like it now. - On the second one, I dripped enamel paints with a turkey baster on an unprimed and unstretched canvas. Lots of action and fun. Waiting for critics and suggestions =)
Thanks! Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago The second one is my favourite -
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago I like the second painting much more than the first--but that could be because i think there is a glare on the first painting and i am not really seeing it clearly. The second painting is really impressive--it really swings! it's an interesting idea though to paint the background black as you did in the first painting. maybe i'll try that too...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Kathia---I really like the idea of the black one, and I think you could keep going with that one. I love the 2nd one due to the colors and the paint flow. Very visually appealing to gaze upon.
Merren Booth about 1 month ago yes the second one seems more controlled and I think this is the key to success, to find a method that looks spontaneous but it actually easy for the artist to orchestrate. After this week's lessons, it's clear a lot of thinking went into Pollock's drips!
24 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Kathia, these both look interesting to me. The palette of your first painting is very dramatic, but I think that the composition loses some energy since is respects the borders too much, rather than shooting right through them. Was this painted on a stretched canvas? Your 2nd composition eliminates this problem nicely, but to my eye there are too many colors for this relatively low volume of paint. While the gestures are very dynamic, I find that the abundance of color is a bit distracting. Alternatively, you could carry on with these colors to develop a much more dense painting that would trade the airy quality of your painting for something far more complex. a nice start!
Kathia G about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Hi Corey - Thanks for the feedback. Yes. The first one was done on a stretched canvas and I was getting a similar composition at first, then the paint didn´t run the same, and finally the colors mixed together. I tried to take out some paint from the canvas with the turkey baster and thought it was ruined so I let it dry. It was like enjoying a salsa dance and your partner steps on your feet and ruin it. The second one reflects that it came with a better flow. The dance was smoother! I´ll try fewer colors next time!
Terry Lee about 1 month ago Love them!
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I love the second one. The colors are very fresh and there is a nice flow and energy. I like the way it moves all the way across the canvas and is does not feel centered. I like some things about the first one, but maybe a lot more density? I'm not sure.
Kathia G about 1 month ago Thanks everyone for your feedback. I´ll try a third one soon. After watching Corey´s videos I want to print my hands on the next canvas too. I wonder if Pollock did it with latex gloves!
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago Corey, could you clarify a couple of things for me please. Here's a photo of all my materials. For this week I've used local brand- Lobster, which is an
25 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
'enamel gloss' made of 'synthetic resin'. Does that mean it's a type of acrylic paint? Is the 'right' kind of enamel and what can I mix it with? One other thing, many images in the Museum of Fine Arts here in Hanoi are called lacquer work or 'Enamel' paintings'. Here is an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuey/2395560238/ Is this the same kind of paint? Although I've never really taken to the works myself as they always seem so cold, I'd like to explore further after this course has finished. Are there any similar works in the MOMA collection? Thanks, Mike
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Mike, lobster brand?! Sounds like that should be from Maine, not Vietnam! Synthetic resins are a family of non-natural resins that include acrylics, vinyls, urethanes, and many others. In the realm of paint, most synthetic resins are acrylics, but certainly not all. Without knowing which it is, it's hard to give advice about what you can mix it with. But if it's water based, there's a good chance it will be compatible with acrylic emulsion paints. In the east, enamel and lacquer often refer to shallac or other natural resins. Unfortunately these terms are so vague that they're hardly useful. In fact, conservators are often involved in changing media descriptions on wall labels to better indicate what the work is actually made of. I'm not aware of this type of lacquer painting in MoMA's collection (but there certainly could be, it's vast!), but the Guggenheim does have several works in that medium painted by Japanese artists in the 1960s. Interesting stuff, some of which will be on view this summer in NY!
John Valentich about 1 month ago Mixed Up Corey:
1) Is it generally safe to assume:
> I can mix an alkyd enamel paint with oil "tube" paints or oil paint mediums. > I can mix an acrylic enamel paint with acrylic "tube" paints or acrylic mediums > What applies to alkyd enamels also applies to polyurethane enamels.
2) Does the "alligator skin" effect apply to alkyd but not acrylic enamels? I have acrylic enamels and haven't noticed any phase separation if I carefully open the can without shaking.
Thanks!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi John: here are some A's to your Q's: > I can mix an alkyd enamel paint with oil "tube" paints or oil paint mediums.
26 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I'm not entirely convinced of this, even thought the manufactures will assure you it's true. I've seen some ugly paint defects that I believe have resulted from this combination. Acrylics should mix fine with each other though. polyurethanes are quite strong and do not polymerize in the same way as oils or acrylics, therefore they're not really compatible, but because they so strong, it may result in a stable film anyway....
Candi Imming about 1 month ago Dripper 1 is the first one. Still need to be careful on how much paint I drip from the stick. The blob of enamel can still be seen that preserves the individual paint color specs.
27 of 27 5/11/12 7:49 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 6: Abstract Art and Music Merren Booth 22 days ago An old art lesson from my files looks at Kandinsky's paintings and then has the students paint improvistationally to music. This article says that Kandinsky may have had synaesthesia and heard colors as sounds. I have tried playing different genres of music during class, sometimes songs sometimes instrumental. I have given up because it seems to always be a distraction rather than an inspiration. However, this year some of my elective students work while listening to personal music over headphones. I have one student who could not stay focused without his music!
Kathia G 28 days ago There is definitely relationship with abstract painting and music. I was thinking before answering the question that maybe De Kooning was completely opposite to follow a rhythm but actually it was the opposite. He played different songs while painting the same piece. Others, like Pollock, Rothko and Ryman definitely focus on just one song as the flow of their paintings don´t feel as interrupted as De Kooning´s pieces.
Kathy Gold about 1 month ago I think it's helpful to think of abstract art in terms of music. So many people try to attach verbal meanings to works of abstract art, as if it is necessary to appreciation. But we are able to enjoy music without lyrics without having to attach words. Obviously you can attach words to it if you want, but you don't have to. Listening to music you just enjoy the experience of the sounds, the harmony, the composition, the repetition, whatever. You don't have to try to verbalize what music "means." I think this is an important notion to keep in mind when approaching abstract art. It can exist without verbal validation.
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago James McNiel Whistler named his paintings, Symphony in white, Nocturne in Black and Gold, Arrangement in Grey and Black, etc. His reason for doing was to shift the gaze from what the painting depicted, this is a picture of ..., to look at the image from another perspective, color, tone, composition and harmony. These titles were unexpected but instructive for the viewer. The titles encourage the viewer to reconsider what they are looking at. These are real relationships, music and art share a common language of description, composition, color, tone. There is an entire genre called the blues, that is the most obvious comparison. The language to describe music to talk about the work of Pollock and abstract painting is a good entry point for an audience unfamiliar with looking at those types of images. Even today, it is a good entrance and it helps to define more complex visual ideas and I do think it fits the medium well. In the lectures and in the succession of painters laid out in this class, we talk about painting in terms of historical aspect, figure ground, loss of subject, color relationships, and the beauty and physical atributes of the paint itself.
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I think any image can go with music of some kind and do not think this is unique for abstract expressionism. I like to make slide shows of painting images with music, and I would definitely consider jazz with abstracts. I do not think it would be my only choice. Sometimes I think music contemporary to the art creation date, provides the historical context of the particular creative period. Jazz seems a good fit for AE, since both to me are about individual, innovative
1 of 3 5/11/12 7:48 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
interpretation of the artist. I could see several other choices, too. I have thought it would be fun to embed a chip into a painting, record a message or music, that goes off for a viewer (like the kind greeting cards now have). I am sure someone has done this...and I have seen these in the art stores. Maybe a Pollock exercise would be one to try it on. However, I think viewers would prefer make their own audio choice to create a unique experience for them. As time passes, will the abstract paintings of the mid-20th century have the same descriptions used for them or will they change depending upon who views them? I think we already see evidence of change in this area, when you consider the class's current diverse views of deKooning's women paintings. (This has also made me consider a white painting with only dK teethy smiles...and playing Lady Gaga's song "Show Me Your Teeth".)
marc brickman about 1 month ago being involved with music and musicians my whole life i feel that both art forms are related and interrelated on so many levels. the pure expression of one's feelings is the output. whether its pollock in a hangover after thinking about IT the whole night or a paul mc cartney/john lennon who were ying and yang, banging their heads at each other, it's being able to express your feelings in the moment then hope that the expression in whatever form can resonate with an audience. time and time again, we try to define, analyze, and re create magic.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago These are difficult questions for me to answer because i know nothing about the language of music. So the question is: Are abstract paintings more closely related to music than are figurative paintings? No actually i don't think that's true. Figurative paintings are often described in exactly the same terms--well the word "compositon" means by definition "to compose" so actually there are examples of visual art being explained in terms of music (composition) and vice verse. some people will claim to "see" music in "color". so which comes first? the language of visual art or the language of music? it's hard to say. But it is not unusual for persons of one field to use metaphors that better belong to another field of practice or knowledge. For example, Scientific "Knowledge" is often described in terms of metaphor--certainly psychoanalysis is probably entirely metaphorical. Why is this? (i don't know...) I suppose we speak in metaphors because we can't talk about anything directly. We have to look at everything sideways. i don't know why this is the case but i'm sure it's true-- I love to listen to music while i'm working--if i'm painting i especially like to begin with something by The Stooges or Led Zeppelin--maybe because painting is both a love thing and a war thing....so i need the support of an aggressive environment. But i can't really say that my work actually "looks like" The Stooges or Led Zeppelin or the Stones. it's just what i like...but if i'm sitting down drawing or i'm close to the floor painting--i like something more like Pink Floyd--"Comfortably Numb" or maybe classical music. I guess in answer to your question re: Monet and Debussy for example well, (are they contemporary?) if yes--i think we do have a tendency to surround our visual world with a sound track--but Monet would have to say that he
2 of 3 5/11/12 7:48 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
was in fact influenced by Debussy in order to make a case that there is more of a relationship between them than simply that they existed at approximately the same time period. Perhaps it is a kind of "zieitgeist" thing--a world spirit or or world consciousness or view that informs all art forms that share a certain period but actually i am not sure i actually believe that.... Well I am just reminded that Corey spoke of de Kooning's paintings in terms of "the body"-- so i guess there are other metaphors used besides musical ones to talk about abstract painting....i am looking forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts on this question!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago I am allergic to ArtSpeak and cannot discuss art in esoteric fashion with my mouth stuffed full of marbles. Frequently art reviews are pure auxesis. I find it refreshing that terms used in music are applied to another art form, and appropriate in this instance. Given the wide range of styles we have already studied, there is no one set of words that can describe all these styles, so like music the chords struck, the scales played, the harmonies and dischords achieved vary greatly. I find this metaphor quite apropos.
Penelope Rothfield about 1 month ago LuLu--try this site--- for a good laugh! http://artbaloney.wordpress.com/
3 of 3 5/11/12 7:48 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 7: Classroom Discussion Lorinda Knight 23 days ago Brushes and Edges Hi Corey, Now that I have some oil paints, my question is: do I reserve some brushes just for oils and some just for acrylics? Or do I use them interchangeably? With all the posts you need to find and read, I am not surprised you missed one of mine in Week 7. The question has to do with the edges of paintings, especially the lower left corner of my Rothko. Magenta acrylic was caught on a tiny pooch-out (technical term) of the canvas at the corner and I find it distracting. I assume I can't scrub it out and I doubt that I can fold it any better the second time if I try. Do i paint over it with primer or white paint? Do I paint the edges (including the pooch out) with a somewhat darker mixture of oil or acrylic. Or what do you recommend? Maybe just live with it? Lorinda
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Yes, I suggest keeping your brushes separate unless you are meticulous with cleaning them. Any of those ideas sound fine to me. The edges are part of the painting too so I'd consider their appearance the same way that you do for the rest of the surface. And you might be surprised, you might be able to just scratch it off with a palette knife. Strong solvent is another way to go, but it's probably not worth the effort.
Kathy Gold 29 days ago Did Rothko paint the entire canvas with one color to begin with and then build up his color areas over that base layer, or did he start with different color zones from the beginning?
Corey d'Augustine 29 days ago Sometimes, but sometimes not! There are very few constants in Rothko's approach to painting over the years.....
Kathy Gold 29 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine So, Corey--you're telling me I can't go down to my local craft store and buy a Rothko paint-by-number kit? I'm going to have to use my own resources? It's an outrage.
Corey d'Augustine 29 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold on the contrary, you just might be able to! Just look in the section right next to the Starry Night bedspreads....
Candi Imming 28 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
If you find a de Kooning kit..let me know.
1 of 2 5/11/12 7:48 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago Hi Corey, How did Rothko typically prepare his canvas? Primed, raw, sized, combination or other? Also, Did Rothko have a preference of type of canvas? Linen, cotton, size of the weave? SFMOMA does have one on display No. 14, 1960. it looked to me like linen with a tight medium weave however I am just started to learn how to decipher these and am interested to know more. Thanks!
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Lisa, Rothko varied his supports over the years, sometimes using linen and other times cotton, sometimes primed and sometimes not, and I believe sometimes without size as well. So you can't go wrong! But these choices will definitely affect the final appearance of the painting as Rothko knew very well....
2 of 2 5/11/12 7:48 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 7: Studio Discussion kristen lyn morrison 7 days ago Forgot to attach. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 6 days ago Hi Kristin, strange and interesting painting! Did you photograph it before you made the dramatic change? what was it, the ground color? This actually makes me think of Rothko's colleague Adolph Gottlieb more than Rothko himself, do you know his work? Check him out! You've maintained a paint thickness that Rothko quickly discarded in 1949, and while your approach can't access the subtly of his painting techniques, you've achieved a hard, opaque surface totally absent from Rothko's work until he experimented with acrylic emulsion paints at the end of his life. Despite this, I like how you've maintained his zone-within-a-zone approach by often leaving edges of forms in reserve when they are repeatedly overpainted. Your asymmetry in the orange horizontal bar also grabs the eye, as does your heavily painted white zone, which could pass for a Ryman if you squint! So while you've tossed out the gradually emerging qualities of Rothko's stains, you've achieved an interesting paint surface that clearly announces exactly where it stands. This lends your painting a graphic quality (hence the link to Gottlieb) that is at odds with the direction Rothko took, but I think you could press forward in this direction with theme and variation (and variation, and variation) to hone in on what this combination of surface and forms can achieve. An interesting work!
kristen lyn morrison 4 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
Hi Corey, This has been a very detailed and exciting course. I am sorry to have not been able to participate as much as I would have liked and get to know all of the other wonderful painters. I wish we had had three weeks for each of the projects. I am hoping you will offer more classes in the future as I value your in depth teaching, sense of humor and expert critique. Thank you for the course. I didn't photograph my under painting. I originally had 3 larger rectangles that hugged the sides of the frame and had a vague notion of putting a vertical strip in the upper right hand corner. I also had some small strips at the top and bottom. It was very busy. The ground surfaces were mixed violets and blacks. You can see some of the violet on the edges of the shapes that I have attached. I was mixing in the blues, turquoise mostly, to soften it as it wasn't feeling right. Before it dried, it looked much softer. The next morning I had a different painting and was displeased with the heavy, darkness of the turquoise acrylic. I have been thinking of using sand paper and going back into it with lighter blue. But, in all, it is an entity in itself and I would hate to mess it up even though it isn't Rothko.
1 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Before I radically changed it, for the first time, I was using a lot of matt medium to try and get the thin layered look. The addition of the matt medium was something I was working on in attached deKooning Shapes, a painting I never sent. I have just attached it here because I never resolved an issue I had with it of all of my shapes being to even. I worked on that issue but have not resolved it. The other deKooning Stepson isn't looking great. I am out of touch with the painting but want to push through to some kind of completion. Those browns and blacks sure are yucky looking. As I have some more time, I am going down to the Phillips and sit in the Rothko Room and also go over to see Pollack's Lavender Mist at the National Gallery and then have a go at those guys again. I will also go up in the tower to see the Guston work. It will be like seeing everything for the first time now that I have a newly educated eye. I looked up Adolph Gottlieb and was impressed. I do like his work and see what you mean about the graphic quality and the laying on top rather than coming from underneath aspect to the paint surface. I like them both, Gottleib and Rothko. Thanks again, Kristen
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 4 days ago in reply to kristen lyn morrison Very cool, Kristen! I think your dK paintings are far from lost, in fact I think they're both very interesting starts. I think you next step here (and remember, some dKs probably have hundreds of such steps) is to allow your shapes to coalesce more into individual shapes rather than bleeding ambiguously into each other, as in the case of Arshile Gorky's work (a chief influence of dK, no coincidence here). Reintroducing drawing is one way to do this, building up impasto is another. Your visits to the National Gallery (where I spent countless hours in the galleries when I used to work there) and Phillips sound like great ideas. The key is allowing your museum visits to deepen your studio sessions, and vice versa! In fact, that's what this course is all about...... glad you've gotten a lot of mileage out of it too!
Merren Booth 4 days ago in reply to kristen lyn morrison I like you color palettes very much! The Stepson is very very intriguing. I hope you continue working on it!
Merren Booth 11 days ago
2 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I apologize for being so behind the fair...Rothko kicked my butt up and down the sidewalk and I've decided to stop at this stage of the painting. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago Hi Merren, this looks cool! I like your take on Rothko's odd acid palette that he adopted every once in a while. I'm always amazed at how he's often able to make such discordant colors work together seamlessly. I think your green ground might be a little loud for this painting, but then again, it does provide an anxious feeling that powers your painting. Your subtle asymmetry is also quite nice, but if you take this painting forward, I think you could focus a bit more on the edges of zones which, in the present state, are rather obvious about where they start and stop. By fussing with these edges during each application of a stain, you can make them increasingly obscure and visually interesting. I think this is a painting that deserves more time on the easel for sure....
kristen lyn morrison 7 days ago Rohtko Rothko 1. When I was almost finished, I changed the composition drastically. It finally appeared. Kristen
Michael Clifford 16 days ago This canvas is beginning to take a beating now. I decided to bring things down and tried burning off the 'tide lines' with turps but have stretched the canvas. Is there anything I can do to rectify this stretching? I will be back in London and plan to see the Rothko's and Pollock's again in the Tate Modern at the end of June/ beginning of July. Anybody fancy a trip over the pond?
3 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 13 days ago You mean the loose area of the canvas in the top of the upper form? That can be tricky to take care of. The Acme Conservation approach (don't tall anyone a conservator suggested this!) is to dampen the reverse of that area and allow it to shrink as it dries. Unfortunately canvases have widely divergent shrinkage rates, so this can be disasterous if you're not lucky. This is typically a job for a conservator, but if you're feeling daring, give it a shot. good luck!
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago A better photo of my Rothko attempt - ground is egg yolk mixed with water. Some of the panels also have egg yolk mixed in with the colour. I guess the top looks like a horizon ?
4 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Merren Booth 18 days ago I like the way you have given a Rothko feeling to your usual intense colors....it seems a bit top heavy to me with the way the zones shrink from top to bottom.
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago in reply to Merren Booth Yup you're correct. Right on. The zinc white is mixed at the top and it seems to dominate. I don't mind the zones shrinking but it looks like "the sky is falling"! what a mess indeed\ It needs either to be flipped or more friggin layers added to soften stuff up. I don't have the patience for Mr. Rothko and if I continue with it, I think I will do acrylic glazes which are not so time consuming and dry pretty fast. But in the end I quite enjoyed this exercise after all my whining. However I continue to consider Mr. Rothko Mr. Yawn and find his work boring.
Michael Clifford 20 days ago The struggle continues.
5 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 19 days ago Turning better relates the "zones" ( I keep wanting to write "shapes")! The halos are interesting too, maybe soften/darken them a little so they merge more with the reds?
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago Is it the other way round? I like your colours a lot
Lulu Godwin 24 days ago CHANGED IT please see Image 3 which I am uploading now Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago Hi Corey I hope you see this Image 3 as I would appreciate some commentary on my Rothko attempt . Many thanks Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 22 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Hi Lulu, I'm having a bit of a hard time reading that image for some reason. Are the colors here more accurate than in the first image you posted? It's interesting that you've taken Rothko in a near-monotonal direction, an avenue I don't think he ever really explored. Near value paintings yes, as in those from the Rothko Chapel. That said, I think you could push that interesting idea by leveraging the 3 yellow floating zones more with respect to each other. In other words, they have a more interesting chromatic relationship with the ground than they do with each other, which gives a static figure/ground relationship rather than a dynamic one that changes zone to zone as your eye passes across the surface. This issue also prevents the floating effects that make so many Rothko paintings tick because color temperature shifts are rather subtle, and when they are more pronounced (e.g. the pink and violet regions), they remain integrated within one of the other yellow zones so that it's more of an edge effect rather than one that applies to the entire form. This isn't meant as negative criticism as I think your painting has a very unRothko-like clunkiness (no perjorative intended), but one that is quite interesting. So take that road and keep going!
6 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 22 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Sorry about the image quality and yes it is really shitty. Maybe it is too crummy to really view it. However, thanks for your great feedback , but sorry I am not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying the background temperature should be stronger to match the panels? or that I should beef up the strength of the panels' colours and make them more contrasting? I also dribbled down the panels so that is what you may find weird to figure out - looks sorta like rain. I wanted to achieve a monochromatic (boring!) palette and now with the addition of the grey at the top it looks a bit like a sunset and rain dribbling down very slightly. . UnRothko-like clunkiness oh I rather like that comment! Maybe the clunkiness or the lack thereof is what bothers me about Rohko - he is monotonous to the point of boredom for me. However I am here to learn and I guess I don't have the hang of what one is trying to achieve here?
Corey d'Augustine 22 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin The crux of it is the suggestion to differentiate the zones from each other more so they all have different relationships with the ground. Make sense? Sorry I get a little jargon-y sometimes despite my best efforts. Too much grad school!
Lulu Godwin 22 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Gracias senor. Now i understand. FYI I bought a bunch of oils which I intend to use after the course is over, during the summer when I have more time, and then I can play Rothko sans Clunk. The grit could also be that the whole canvas was primed using egg yolk as the background colour, and then mixing that in with the different yellows. I have Egg On The Brain! Next up - mayo as you suggested somewhere to someone or in a vid.
John Valentich 21 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin So do I have this right, the ground color is PURE egg yolk to which you then added different hues of yellow paint? Was the egg yolk allowed to dry before adding paint? Lulu Godwin 18 days ago in reply to John Valentich Pure egg yolk with water
John Valentich 21 days ago Rothko 1 Rothko 1 (Oil on Canvas) The red-orange area at the top turned out particularly interesting. When I stare at an area and
7 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
then move my eyes right or left the colors seem to change intensity and sift position. Is it just me?!
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago yep, welcome to the world of Rothko stained effects! it's subtle stuff, but qualities like that can keep me in front of a Rothko for long periods of time. I think you've handled paint extremely well here, but I'm not convinced by the swelling contours of some of the shapes, which provides a graphic illusion of volume which is at odds with the chromatic and painterly one which can be much more subtle, ambivalent, and interesting (if you ask me!). Were they intentional of did they just develop as you painted stain over stain?
John Valentich 21 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine By "swelling contours" do you mean the peripheral shape of the zones or streaking within zones, as is particularly evident in the second dark zone from the bottom? Undulations in the zones' shape developed accidentally due to my inability to paint a straight line and my
8 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
attempt to keep a tiny bit of the underlying layers visible. There also was that issue of diffusion of thin paint which didn't always go where desired and caused the shapes to "evolve" on their own!
Corey d'Augustine 20 days ago in reply to John Valentich yep. I think tightening the contours would help shift the focus more in favor of your chromatic effects...
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago WOW I love this. Gorgeous and very well done with colours - much nicer than Rothko in my view.
Calli Shelton 21 days ago Late to the Rothko party but here's what I've been working on. I've lost count of the number of layers and they still seem only half finished. I'm using matte colors for the ground and more glossy ones for the figures.
Attachments:
Merren Booth 21 days ago These have nice luminous edges!
Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago Nice work Calli, these are great too! I like how each of them has a dominant color temperature with one zone being a dramatic exception. Your paint has a bit of a graphic quality though, a kind of "cuteness" since the paint has a very wet-over-dry character rather than the subtle complexity that comes with wet-in-wet blending of near value stains. But there's time yet! I suggest working forward with stains that are similar to the tones you have on the surface now, and try a quick succession (very quick if you're working in fast drying acrylics) of two stains to get a surface with a bigger and better density of painterly incident. These are both great starts that would benefit from a bit more refinement...
Calli Shelton 21 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. That's been one of my learning challenges with these paintings is the timing of working wet-on-wet. Adding new layers immediately after others wasn't working very well so I've been trying to figure out the timing. Lately I've been able to add another layer about every 24 hours...that gives me some workability still with the previous layer but not so much that things turn muddy.
9 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I'll work forward with your suggestion of adding similar tones - I'm excited to see how they develop!
Calli Shelton 20 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton So today I worked wet-on-wet with the orange painting...I felt like I finally understood at least part of the technique...a small, soft brush helped...using a very small amount of paint made a difference...what a beautiful, subtle process...I would have loved to have seen Rothko at work. Attachments:
Merren Booth 19 days ago in reply to Calli Shelton The colors are much more refined-neat!
John Valentich 21 days ago Diluting Oil Paint to Make "Rothko Stains" A question about oil paint dilution to create "Rothko stains." When I make very dilute paints and let them sit overnight in a jar I get separation of pigment (on the bottom of the jar) from solvent. I assume I've dissolved all the medium into the solvent phase and the pigment falls out of suspension. When this happens, have I diluted the paint too much, ie beyond the degree of dilution Rothko used? If I shake up the paint to get the pigment into suspension and apply it to a vertical canvas I get some interesting streaking effects and fine deposits of concentrated pigment particles.
Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago Hi John - yes you'll learn more about that approach next week in the context of Reinhardt. You're not removing all of the medium, but you're extracting much of it. In fact, some pigment may separate out of your paint since it is underbound (i.e. not enough binder) and quite mobile in the solvent phase.
John Valentich 21 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine So, is this what I should strive for in doing Rothkos or am I over-diluting the paint? Corey d'Augustine 20 days ago in reply to John Valentich You're probably going a little too far, but I think Rothko did that at times too....
marc brickman 27 days ago
10 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
untreated cotton duck with oil sticks in thinner Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield 27 days ago it's so soft looking---really lovely.
marc brickman 26 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield thank you... was very stain like in the beginning then i applied poppy oil.
Corey d'Augustine 25 days ago Very nice Marc, I like how you've lowered the values of your colors but also have preserved a sense of light emitting from the canvas through the thin paint. A very Rothko idea! I would love to see the edges of the painting to see if these forms can optically float off of the surface, but the small warm red bar certainly does push out of the cool alizarin ground in that area. In fact the entire palette is very nicely balanced between warm and cool so that the painting has a fully resolved finish. Nice work! Have you tried keying out the canvas to reduce the distortion near the right edge? You might also be able to pull the canvas a little tighter there by adding a staple or two....
marc brickman 25 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks corey... yes, this is a whole new week for me... the thinning of the paint and multiple layers is like working with light. amazing insights!
i will try your suggestions and repost.. it is still drying, so i am a little timid in trying to stretch while wet..
i am working on two others in the moment..
this is exciting..
11 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
paula J swett 22 days ago in reply to marc brickman Marc, i really like the strength and subtleties that you have created in this painting. i am inspired to drag out oil sticks which i forgot all about. Poppy seed oil? is that from the grocery or art store? Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago in reply to paula J swett poppy oil comes from the art store. you can check the oil painting video from the beginning of the course for a refresher...
marc brickman 21 days ago in reply to paula J swett thank you.. the oil sticks are sold as sticks at the art store.. they are concentrated pigment wrapped as astick.. can be messy..
corey answered the poppy oil query.. thanks again..
Michael Clifford 28 days ago I've mixed oils with a bit of linseed oil and then added some solvent. After applying to the canvas some mottling is evident. Is this due to the way the paint has been mixed, or applied? Or is it that there may be some mould in the canvas? it's hard to avoid in such a humid climate.
12 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
13 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 28 days ago Hey Michael, looks like your canvas is off to a great start. And congrats on your new "studio!" What kind of canvas are you working on? I wouldn't be too concerned with that uneven effect since it's visually quite interesting, and I don't think it poses any structural problem. Your approach sounds fine, so I'm wondering if this uneven setting is due to either too little mixing of the solvent on your palette, or perhaps an uneven size layer on the canvas. As you work layer over layer, I think you'll find that this sinking effect will lessen each time. Mold can sometimes be a big problem on canvases, but it usually doesn't sprout up so quickly. Then again I've never worked on paintings from your neck of the woods!
Michael Clifford 26 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine
14 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Thanks everyone for your comments. I had three canvases made up before the course started with the idea that I could fill three alcoves in the house with Rothko-esque paintings. So these canvases are biggest I've used ( 180x140cm), but I didn't stretch or prime them myself- d'oh! Although it is supposed to be vertical, I can't settle on an orientation for this painting just yet. I am having a great time brushing on a coat with solvent and trying to get it to run evenly down the block before brushing it off again A wave of red sliding down the canvas is very hypnotic- an experience no doubt enhanced by the solvent fumes! I'm not happy with this work as a whole just yet, it seems too busy. It's more like three paintings in one. I am wondering if adding the blue will help it bond, although looking at the B&W picture I suspect it may not. If that is the case, I may have to give the whole thing a more opaque wash. The 'reflective lines' from before can still be seen
Any suggestions for furthering this work would be most appreciated. Mike
Merren Booth 22 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford I agree it does seem like too many shapes. Maybe you could combine the three shapes into just two or one?
paula J swett 24 days ago rothko attempts I really loved my many attempts working a la Rothko. That is not to say i love all the outcomes. I am posting this pair as i did these two simultaneously. the first is on primed canvas with very intentional strokes etc. the second one is unprimed and cleaning my brush from the first. i would love some input etc.
15 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 22 days ago Hi Paula, looks like you had fun here! I like how you've accentuated the gestural aspect of Rothko's work, a quality that is always there but often whispered since his paints are so thinly applied that the trace of the artist's hand is sometimes hard to pin down. While the heavy and opaque qualities of your paint are rarely found in Rothko's canvases, you've extended his signature composition in these directions. To my eye, you've sacrificed the floating quality of these forms (although that might just be because you cropped off the edges of the canvas in your photo) for a more direct visual statement, one that has an immediate impact rather than gradually building momentum as Rothko's paintings often do. The distracting creases in the 2nd canvas make it a bit hard for me to read, so you might think about either flattening them or, alternatively, continuing to add crease after crease!
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago Here are my two attempts. Both oil on canvas. I found it hard to photograph as the colors are a little washed out and the focus was a little soft. I am happier with the red-orange one, maybe because it was smaller and the canvas sized prior to painting. I think the contrast could be more, I would have liked it to be even hotter with more tension, its a little too harmonious for what I was trying for. The green-blue one was painted on raw canvas and that was hard because the material seemed to endlessly absorb the paint and it is much larger. My personal critique is again I needed to get even more complex with the colors and would have liked to layer color several more times but that is hard to do within one week.
Attachments:
Kathy Gold 24 days ago The first one really works for me. I think you could keep working on the second one and get more complex and subtle colors.
Lorinda Knight 24 days ago I think the second one has a lot of potential. But for me the large blue block needs to advance more in space and the top light block recede a bit. Focus was tricky until I focused on the edge of the canvas, pushed the button half way, held it while moving the camera to frame and then took the picture.
16 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 24 days ago I find the colours bit harsh - maybe mute them down a bit? Very nice though
Lisa Ormerod 23 days ago Thanks for the feedback. I think i tried to do too much in the green painting. Too many colors, I think I should simplify. If I have time I am going to go back in a bring the colors into a more harmonious tones of blue and green. Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Hey Lisa, don't be so hard on yourself! I think these are both very interesting, although I agree that the first is a stronger canvas. Your location of the orange bar within (rather than extending through) the red zone is an odd but weirdly effective approach since, rather than act like a fulcrum, it makes the entire painting wobble around the narrow band of yellow field in the center. This gives the painting a cantilevered quality with the two general halfs of the painting pushing and pulling around the picture plane. I agree though that the interest of your composition and figure ground relationship isn't quite matched by your palette, and perhaps you could have either made more complex pigment admixtures, or perhaps stained more layers in succession to give the eye a bit more to feast on. But regardless, it's a very strong work, congrats!!
Kathia G 25 days ago Here is my first Rothko. I usually paint thick so this is a good exercise and I´m loving it. It looks more translucent in person. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Nice start Kathia. Now I think you should move this painting forward by applying successive stains over the zones you've already laid in. Your palette is quite interesting, so now make it even moreso by using very thin applications of colors that are similar (but not the same) as those colors below. Play with color temperature and the size as well by alternating going over the edges of the previous form, or leaving some of it in reserve as a visual reminder of what's underneath. Keep it up!!
Kathy Gold 25 days ago Here are my Rothko paintings. It's really just two paintings in two different stages. I did these in acrylics, but I was incredibly frustrated, and I have broken down and bought oil paints. I didn't use them in these paintings, however. I have been wanting to use acrylics for odor and toxicity reasons. But I give in! I had an incredibly difficult time photographing these paintings, and they still don't look like what they look like to me in real life. I'm not sure if it's the glare or the plastic nature of acrylics or what. Attachments:
17 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 25 days ago I like these!
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago These look great! I think it was a good idea to photograph the stages and see how the painting changed as you added color. I liked seeing the evidence of the original colors in the final. Lorinda Knight 24 days ago It's a little hard for me to tell which came first. I love the indeterminate floating nature of the lower block in number 2. Oil paints using Odorless Mineral Spirits and linseed oil really don't have odor problems, much to my surprise. Toxicity, I don't know, but I'm not too worried. Kathy Gold 24 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight #2 is now underneath #3, and #1 is now underneath #4. I took pictures of the early stages because I somewhat liked them and didn't know if I was going to be making them better or worse.
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Hi Kathy, I share your frustration with acrylics and am glad that you took the plunge into oils! While you might not like the weak solvent strength of odorless mineral spirits, I'm pretty sure that you won't be bothered by its low toxicity unless you are extremely sensitive to solvent. I always scratch my head trying to understand why Rothko sometimes painted in acrylics at the very end of his career. To my eye, this paintings lack the complexity and painterly nuance that are the touchstones of his entire career. That said, I think your second canvas (i.e. image #3) is quite strong in terms of composition and palette. I also like how you have left certain edges in reserve to give a buzzing effect, and I absolutely agree with the value and color temperature shifts you made from its original state. Now that you have a few oils, you might take a stab at laying a wash down over one of those zones (remember, oil over acrylic is fine but not the other way around). Just go easy, and realize that if it's not going the direction you want, you can simply scrub it away and leave just a trace of it behind, which will probably only increase the interest of the painting anyway!
Kathy Gold 23 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. I felt the best about #3 and appreciate your comments. I am excited to paint with oils again. It's been a long time since I used them, and I have a lot of questions about how to dispose of used mineral spirits, etc. You don't want to know what I used to do with old turpentine and other noxious mixes. I'm pretty sure it wasn't green. Is there a better way to dispose of old stuff, or do artists just furtively dump things
18 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
into the sewer system or on the vacant lot next door?
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold According to most state laws, small quantities of odorless mineral spirits are ok to be poured down the drain with water. I'm no expert on that though, so you should check. Your waste disposal company probably also has a solvent disposal policy...
Lorinda Knight 24 days ago Edges of paintings Corey, what do you recommend we do about painting (or not painting) the edges of the canvas. The Rothko I see at SFMOMA has the edges painted rather roughly but in dark colors. The main problem with my Rothko is that one corner was not folded perfectly and a bit of magenta background color hit the protruding tip of canvas, leaving a slight distraction at the lower left corner. I don't think I can pull the canvas any tighter but maybe I could. Right now the edges are still white primer. I could paint white primer or titanium white over the bump. I painted the edges of my Newman black (the same as the face) and that worked for that painting. Some artists paint the edges medium grey.
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Hi Lorinda, Rothko treated his edges many different ways, but typically he "cleaned" his brush on the edges of the painting so they aren't painted solidly, but they do contain most of the colors on the palette for the painting. This seems to be his way of easing the optical transition from the surface of the painting to the blank wall.
Lorinda Knight 28 days ago Stage 1 Rothko This morning's session went well and I look forward to new layers. I used Golden _Open_ acrylic paint for the ground in translucent magenta and ultramarine blue. It does let light through, which is good, but I wonder if it is too translucent. For the larger block I used Alizarin crimson hue plus _Open_ raw sienna. The smaller dark blue block is _Open_ Ultramarine blue and Payne's grey. I used _Open_ acrylics so that I could brush some of the dark blue back up into the red orange. It made some nice brush strokes but didn't actually mix the colors the way I thought it would. Next session I plan to use some slightly lighter hues on the blocks and maybe some gloss medium on the blue block. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 28 days ago Looks like a great start to me Lorinda. Yes, using medium will make translucent glazes that Rothko seldom used, but sometimes to great effect. More typically, he diluted his paints with solvent to stain rather than glaze over the surface. For your next session, be sure to pay close attention to the edges of forms, which can often be activated with vigorous brushing perpendicular to the edge with a small brush. looks like fun!
19 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 28 days ago Beautiful reds! And I love the blue you chose to go with them. I still have to do my Pollock, but I can't wait to start a Rothko! Everyone's palettes are so inviting.
Lisa Ormerod 27 days ago This looks beautiful! I also like the color choices. Please post an update when you finish! Lorinda Knight 27 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I'm a little confused. In your lectures you emphasized that Rothko played with the contrast between matte and gloss. How do I get gloss if I don't use gloss medium? Corey d'Augustine 26 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight By adding linseed oil or varnish to your oil paints! Working in acrylic, you can use gloss medium to raise surface gloss, but the effect will be rather different that what you're accustomed to seeing in Rothko's paintings since it will quickly raise translucency and dry with a plastic appearance.
Lorinda Knight 26 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for warning me. A plastic appearance is not exactly what I am aiming for here! Lorinda Knight 25 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine O.K., Corey, I am beginning to see the light regarding oil paints. (It helps that I live a half a block from an art supply store.) Stage 2 shows a mixed red orange oil paint and solvent layer and a barely noticeable mixed blue oil paint and solvent layer (with a bit more linseed oil). I like Rothko's large brush stroke color block edges on his painting (No. 14, 1960) here at SFMOMA but I tried some smaller brush work as you suggested. I just didn't want to get too precious about it. I'm not sure where to go from here. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 25 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Now that's more like it! I think that this painting could be finished, or you could continue to fuss with the edges to add a bit more delicacy to the interactions between forms. I'm glad you took the plunge with oils here!
20 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
marc brickman 24 days ago added colour Attachments:
marc brickman 24 days ago many thin layers of gray, indigo and grey.. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 25 days ago I caved and here is my attempt entitled Refrain From Yawning - sorry photo is not very good - I am going to post a second photo of it where the colours show better THEN i CHANGED IT TO IMAGE 3 BELOW! 1. Egg yolk diluted with water as background. Wants to keep low contrast overall and play with tones of yellow. 2. Layers of acrylic washes with watercolour crayon in purple around edges and then scrubbed out. Line of orange under middle section,.Zinc white (my new friend) to beef up between top and next block of colour. 3. Bottom section original underlay is egg yolk. and water but fairly thick - pinkish overlay in middle bit looks quite yummy. 4. Overall effect looks wimpy and edges look shitty - Anything to save it Corey and others? Found this a very annoying exercise - too much like watercolours . I do not have the patience of Mr. Rothko nor the inclination to do wash after wash. But glad I undertook it. Normally when doing to do layers, as I work in acrylics, I do layers of glazes but with the addition of acrylic medium which I did not use here.
Attachments:
Kathy Gold 24 days ago
21 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I like it! It is very serene and calming.
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago I wonder if you would have had more success if you did layers of glazes with acrylic medium? Not sure if it is the photo but all three color areas look really close in tone and value I would go back in and use your glazing technique to see what happens. Since Rothko painted in oil I think that he did used other medium not only turpentine, especially in his later work where the paints seem more opaque. I was surprised that you did one, you were so adamantly against it! Lulu Godwin 24 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod I find him boring and I am running again the clock as I will be out of town for the end of the class. I posted another photo where the subtelties of the colours show a bit better. Glazes will change the effect of the paint so I elected not to go that route.
Penelope Rothfield 26 days ago Okay--i can see in the in the photo online that actually the edges of color are too severe--too sharp--so i went back to the painting and used a dry filbert brush to sort of gently tap around the edges and i think it makes a big difference--it is much softer looking....well.... Attachments:
Kathy Gold 25 days ago Very nice, Penelope. I love the way the blue border frames the more subtle colors.
Corey d'Augustine 25 days ago Hi Penelope, this looks quite interesting, although the images you've uploaded so far are a bit rough. To eliminate that glare, you could "fill in" by placing a light on the left side of the canvas as well. I agree that the edges could become more subtle which would help confuse the eye as to exactly where one form starts and another stops. Also, I like how you've worked so thinly, but your painting would probably benefit from a bit more opacity to give the to principal zones a bit more of a substantial effect. You could do this by preparing stains of similar (but not the same) value to these colors and apply them very thinly, perhaps extending over some edges, or perhaps leaving a bit in reserve as you have already. This recipe can work endlessly to continually give the painting more optical incident until you feel that the canvas is full and isn't asking for any more....
Penelope Rothfield 27 days ago Hi everyone-- I'm struggling with the Rothko exercise, but i'm really happy doing it--I love Rothko's particularly the black paintings and i am really enjoying trying out what MAY be his method! Before
22 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
beginning this painting I looked a lot at Rothko's No. 81, (Rust and Blue), 1953 as it appears on his Wikipedia site and i sort of used it as a model. This time i think i just won't list all of the things that i think are wrong with this painting (as i typically do). Suffice it to say I continue to work on the difficulties i'm finding here, and as always i look forward to your comments . (i can't seem to attach a file!) Well ! I'll continue to work on uploading the photo as well!!
Penelope Rothfield 27 days ago So here is the painting i described in the above post: I used oil paint and it is still quite wet--i had a hard time taking the photo without any glare--if you want me to i could try to photograph it again..... Attachments:
Michael Clifford 28 days ago This is what I've been waiting for. I've moved out on to the roof and out have come the big canvases. This is just the first coat but I can feel tears are going to be shed! I realise it may be difficult to 'pop ' against this purple but I'm thinking the next coat should involve deeper chroma red and blue which made up the purple.
Merren Booth 28 days ago
23 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I know it is going to develop further but I really like this state.....it hovers on the edge of representational.
Lisa Ormerod 27 days ago When I first saw this image, i thought the top square was reflecting what was behind you! I guess I am still thinking of the shiney lobster paint! It will be interesting to see what this ends up being! Terry Lee about 1 month ago Rothko must have had so much fun making his paintings Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 29 days ago Hi Terry, looks like you crossed Rothko with Albers to interesting effect! While your palette and surface appear interesting, I don't think you've allowed your forms to really float off of one another since their edges are co-linear. In other words, because the lateral edges of the green and blue forms are aligned, they appear to be part of the same unit despite the difference of color. So, even though these edges are handled nicely as they blur into the ground, they remain a bit static in relation to each other. You might think about pulling some of the ground color between these forms to separate them, and you also might vary their widths by shrinking or widening one or both forms. Without those devices, your composition has more of a box-in-a-box Albers type effect rather than the luminous and airy effects of so many of the best Rothko canvases....
Merren Booth 28 days ago Beautiful colors! the complements contrast softly which I think is very hard to do. Are the paints metallic?
Candi Imming about 1 month ago MR1. I do not know that the photograph accurately captures the colors. It pops better in person, blue much darker. Yellow light hansa, line of cadmium yellow medium, manganese blue hue (glossy finish to it), wash of yellow light hansa stripe, cadmium orange stripe, yellow light hansa washagain, green made from yellow light hansa and manganese blue hue then washed with yellow light hansa a few times. Found this a very mellow experience to keep applying layers.
24 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Candi, this looks great! I like the palette, seems like a nice painting to spend time with. I think some of your brushwork is a bit too loud though, especially in the blue and green zones where the difference between the top color and layer peaking through it is quite large. I might think about adding another stain in these areas that is only subtly difference from the current color to make these zones more subtle. For example, this type of subtlety is found in the chromium colored area above the blue, and my eye wants to see that degree of nuance elsewhere in the painting...
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Ok, thanks, Corey...that really helps.
Terry Lee about 1 month ago That is a very nice painting
Candi Imming about 1 month ago in reply to Terry Lee Thanks, Terry. Your painting below I find lovely...very visually appealing to me. I agree with you..I find these relaxing to do.
Merren Booth 28 days ago The color choices work beautifully together and your varying widths of the colors makes a strong visual rhythm too!
Lulu Godwin 29 days ago cannot view all the comments Hi Corey only the original post and your reply show up - I see Candi has more discussion under
25 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
her original post but I cannot view them.
Corey d'Augustine 29 days ago Sounds like a question for the tech forum! It seems to be working fine for me....
marc brickman 29 days ago much harder than it looks.. this is a small test canvas..
will upsize shortly, just testing. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago sssh I have to throw Rothko under the bus as one painter must be sacrificed due to my time constraints, as I am away as of the end of this month. Rothko's colour fields have never done anything for me but I appreciate learning his techniques and will give it a bash over the summer when I have more time.
Michael Clifford about 1 month ago A calm start please.
26 of 26 5/11/12 7:46 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 7: Emotion in Art Lisa Ormerod 26 days ago How much, do you think, is the way that we are expected to look at art, and modern works in particular as being more of an intellectual exercise? As a younger person, I would look at works that would please me aesthetically, or could tell a story I could relate to and I could form a personal attachment to. Going to art school, I learned how to look at work on different levels, intellectually, and analytically which tends to reduce the amount of emotion attributed to it. I also wonder if time has something to do with an emotional reaction. There is probably an average amount of time a visitor spends in front of a painting or sculpture and maybe that has something to do with it. The works that evoke an emotional response from me are ones that I have spent time with, usually in reproduction, and the emotion comes when I am with the piece in person. This being in the presence of the work reminds me of the performance piece at MoMA in 2010 of Marina Abramovic, The artist is present, which made a lot of people cry. With film, and literature you can be "present" with the material anywhere and you spend time and are familiar with it. Art may require the same investment from an individual to evoke an emotion.
Lulu Godwin 25 days ago For me it is an instant response - the hairs on the back of my neck go up and then I get a rush and then I start shaking and then crying. Nothing intellectual or a timed event. This applies to all works of age, no matter when they were created i.e. Middle Ages to Contemporary. It is something in the painting that resonates with my being, literally reaches my core and then makes me cry as a physiological response - not as a sign of sadness at all.
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago I agree with signs of sadness, the emotional reaction of tears is not always sadness or pain. I wonder if in general that the public doesn't spend enough time to let the work absorb in to allow them to experience an emotion. I don't think museums would be successful if people were going in to feel sad and cry all the time! For myself, after this class I can expect appreciating and having deeper experiences of the artists we have looked at because of what I have learned and experienced. Merren Booth 22 days ago I agree! I cry watching movies or reading books all the time, and I do think it because it is because I have created a relationship to the story unfolding. I think you need to have committed the same time to a work of art. Art works that have overwhelmed me have been ones that I studied or read a lot about before I actually was able to see the real work. Knowing about the artist and how the work was created, its historical context, it's history, and then--BAM--you see it "for reals". Monet's Nympheas at the Jardin des Tuileries was a big moment when I was a high school sophomore. I have yet to be emotional in front of something newly discovered.
Kathy Gold 24 days ago The art which has the strongest emotional impact on me is not necessarily that which makes me cry. I can cry at a television commercial. Experiencing great art to me is a spiritual
1 of 4 5/11/12 7:45 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
experience--and I don't mean that in any kind of religious or deity kind of way. I experience it most often with visual arts and music, although I have also experienced it with great literature and sometimes a movie. Some of the most profound experiences I have had have been at museums standing in front of art. I transcend the day-to-day world and enter some kind of universal, timeless realm. It's very difficult to explain.
Candi Imming 24 days ago I agree about transcending the daily grind by looking at art, which offers alternative views of the world in which we live. Ideas realized. I never get tired of looking....then thinking.
Kathia G 28 days ago I felt paralyzed in front of many paintings but never cried like with a touching poetry, song or movie. Maybe a figurative painting could give me a more direct sensation but an abstract invite me to explore and give me curiosity to guess what the author wanted to express. Movies and poetry make me cry all the time and maybe because the messages usually require no interpretation but go directly to the heart.
Penelope Rothfield 28 days ago thanks for asking this question since it is one of those questions i always hope someone will ask me, yet no one else ever has....I have cried in front of Donatello's David--and then when i read an article once that compared Donatello's David with Michelangelo's David--that made me cry too--it was all about how Michelangelo's DAvid relies on his own power to kill the giant and how Donatello's David knows he can only kill the giant with God's help. Also have cried looking at reproductions of Leonardo's "The Burlington House Cartoon"--Anne's face is so uncanny. Of course I'v also cried buckets watching the film " The Polar Express"--the ending tears me apart! I still hear the bell too! The first time i ever cried in response to a book, film, art, was when I read "Pippi Goes on Board"--so sad!! The Dead by James Joyce makes me cry--"The Moon and the Yew Tree" by Sylvia Plath also--lots and lots of stuff can reduce me to an absolute puddle. I haven't actually seen the Rothko works in the Rothko chapel but thinking about the work makes me cry --it seems very generous to me --it's very generous of Rothko to create a place where we can think our own thoughts and slowly attend to our vision in a private place--i think rothko is the one who creates a sense of privacy-- Attachments:
Elizabeth Wood about 1 month ago emotion in art I’ve been moved to tears by music, film and literature but never paintings. The only art work that moved me to great sadness was an installation piece by the artist Doris Salcedo who typically uses domestic objects charged with meaning and focused on the violence and conflict in Colombia, where she is from. Perhaps reading art requires a sensibility and sensitivity that is not as finely tuned in some of us as it is in others or perhaps it simply reflects our unique differences in terms of what moves us. I did not find the famous Meret Oppenheim fur covered cup and saucer moving when I saw it yet
2 of 4 5/11/12 7:45 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
this is how the American writer Donald Barthelme described it: “a small object covered in fur that breaks your heart”. Corey: are there any books on this topic that you could recommend? I’d enjoy researching this further.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Elizabeth, thanks for sharing! Unfortunately I don't know of any books on this subject, but I'd certainly be interested as well since this is always my favorite discussion question of the semester....and ok, ok, I confess, I cry in front of art all the time!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Right on Corey!!!! Does mom a have guest kleenex. I boo hoo a lot when I am there Penelope Rothfield 28 days ago There is a book called "Pictures & Tears" by James Elkins. I haven't read this one, but i usually find Elkins' work pretty interesting....
Candi Imming about 1 month ago I cannot remember that a painting or sculpture made me cry, but I know many have inspired awe or wonder when I viewed them. I admire the idea and the skill it took to create it. Some photographs would elicit a few tears from me, especially of people or animals in bad situations. I think that it is interesting about Mark Rothko's intent for his work. I am sure some people could have experienced tears or strong emotion when viewing his paintings, as it all depends upon what each viewer brings. At this point, I cannot see that impact on myself. Movies impact me the most when it comes to emotions, and in those cases I often relate to the scene and the characters' situation... I imagine how they would feel. I think movies offer more information for the senses --- images, music, and often, words. However I emote over books, music, and awesome live performances in the arts or sports, too. When another being excels at a task and you see it, you feel you share their moment with them.
Lorinda Knight about 1 month ago Kinesthetic response I have a very strong kinesthetic response in my body to Rothko paintings and many other works of art. I can feel a response in my hands and arms and legs, a lightening, almost a desire to dance but also a stillness. It overtakes me. This is why being in the actual presence of works of art (as opposed to just seeing images in print or online) is so important to me. But I do not cry very often -- even viewing dark or depressing films, which I usually like very much.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago Museum Crying Good to know that I am not alone crying in front of paintings! I thought that was just me. I have cried buckets in front of Matisse, cried and laughed with joy in front of Basquiat, cried in front of De Kooning. Monet yup not cried but certainly a few sniffs. The hairs on the back of my neck go up as a barometer first then I get a chill and shivers all over, then I start to cry as I am overcome by a piece of art.
3 of 4 5/11/12 7:45 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
But sorry to say, I have consistently YAWNED as I walked fairly quickly past Rothko. I have wondered at the people who stand still in awe as though in worship. His colour fields do nothing for me in person but I am appreciating learning his techniques. I'd like to say now that next time I will cry in front of a Rothko but nope, I know that will not be the case. He is too vapid for me as a painter. I like my men with fuller body!
Lisa Ormerod about 1 month ago I have cried in front of paintings and sculture before. The first time it happened I was in the Vatican looking at Michelangelo's Pieta. Michelangelo was my entrance to art as a young girl. My parents had a Time-Life series on art and he was one of the subjects. I drew that Pieta many times as a pre-teen and teen. When I saw it I just broke down, because it was so beautiful, the sculpture meant so much to me as a fledgling artist learning how to draw and trying to understand weight, volume and mass of the body and fabric and I was standing in front of it, I was in Rome seeing all that art in context. The emotion was overwhelming. The emotion had nothing to do with religion as I was brought up with no religion and I learned about Christianity through Art history. It was an art experience for me.
I have also visited the Rothko chapel in Houston. Before I got there I was expecting to have an emotional reaction. I remember the paintings were more sombre than I anticipated. There were not a lot of people in the chapel, but the place was very quiet. It felt like a tomb and felt heavy. I felt depressed in there and found it hard to stay in there for a long period of time except that it was cool in the heat of August in Texas. I didn't cry but I did feel the weight of sadness fairly intensely.
4 of 4 5/11/12 7:45 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 8: Classroom Discussion Penelope Rothfield 19 days ago turpentine to wash varnish off of brushes? Hi Corey--I wonder if it's necessary to wash the brushes, etc. i used to paint the guston exercise (oil paint and damar varnish) with turpentine (instead of turpenoid or gamsol). I am asking because i am having a hard time cleaning the brushes and glass jars and butchers trays that used --i know that to make your own damar varnish you need to use turpentine and not turpenoid so that made me wonder if perhaps i am using the wrong thing to clean up with.....What do you think? thanks.
Corey d'Augustine 18 days ago Gamsol is just a trade name for overpriced mineral spirits, but that along with odorless mineral spirits, turps, etc should be fine for cleaning brushes. I usually use a bit of dish detergent as the last step to make sure any residues are washed away.
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago You will find Nirvana in Acrylics!!
Lulu Godwin 20 days ago Corey the course you are teaching at the GUGG I am hopeless at sculpture but I will be in NYC. Is it more like collage than molding sculpture stuff? I will not have any tools or equipment with me - will that matter? sorry to post this here but do not know where else to ask you about this. Oh what the hell, I signed up and I am positive it will be Bloody Marvelous just as Bloody Marvelous as this course. Maybe I can bring some Vancouver trash to make into a sculpture thingie.
Corey d'Augustine 19 days ago great! molding, folding, crushing, wadding. no tools required, just bring yourself (and any of your favorite trash, especially metal!).
Elizabeth Wood about 1 month ago drawing You men oned that drawing was an important aspect of Guston’s approach to art making. Could you elaborate on that? Were his drawings simply another stylis c change for Guston or did he draw as a means of inves ga ng images for the purpose of making a pain ng? Did any of the other ab ex ar sts incorporate drawing into their prac ce as thoroughly as Guston? Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago Hi Elizabeth, during the moment you're describing, Guston used drawing processes suggested by Cage to free up his approach to mark making. Rather adjusting every nuance (see my comment to Lulu above), he used drawing to liberate and speed his brushwork. But something tells me that even Cage was shocked at what came next. In my opinion, de Kooning incorporated drawing techniques into his work far more than any other painter of that generation, although Franz Kline, Pollock, and Jack Tworkov are also in the conversation.
1 of 2 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 28 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine deK Rules! John Valentich 20 days ago NYS Drawing I have a PDF of a short 1998 article entitled: Drawings of the New York School. I'd be glad to send you (or anyone else) a copy. If interested, email me directly at: [email protected]
paula J swett 21 days ago you and teaching hi Corey i just saw your post re guggenheim. i am away that day otherwise i would drive in to hear you. Is there away that you can keep us posted as to classes/lectures you will be teaching in and out of the moma? thanks paula
Corey d'Augustine 21 days ago Thanks Paula, I certainly will. And you can also check out the education section of MoMA's website to see what courses are being offered onsite at the museum...
Candi Imming 27 days ago I kind of like the guy---Guston---he went his own way even when it was not popular. I had seen some of his figure work before and thought "whoa why is this so great", but it keeps growing on me. I also really like the abstract "Native's Return", too. I am not sure what I am doing yet for him, but the figure ideas from my history keep coming to mind.
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago video not available Hi Corey FYI National Gallery video says it is available . I am having to work ahead as I will away e in New York sans studio - unless MOMA lets me come paint with you. PLEASE.
Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago hm, bummer, that was a good one too. That probably means it's now for sale in their gift shop!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago how do you teach this dude Corey! He is more all over the map than I am. I tried to do something started with the grey edges to work in and used varnish and then lost interest and it turned into a combo Jack the Dripper, greyness weird creation. !! Corey d'Augustine about 1 month ago in reply to Lulu Godwin no one said it's easy! I suspect that your gestures might be too fast and hard, Guston barely touches the canvas with his paint and often gently lays them on and sculpts their surfaces with the brush...
2 of 2 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 8: Studio Discussion John Valentich 10 days ago Pedernal --- 10,000 Brush Strokes Later (Acrylic) This painting was on life support for several days, its prognosis grim. But it's condition is now listed as "stable" pending critical review!
Pedernal Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 9 days ago WOWEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kathy Gold 9 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Double wowee!
Corey d'Augustine 9 days ago super cool!! This is really interesting, John. Your source in Guston is quite clear, but you've taken him in a very strong direction by vertically bisecting the canvas via color temperature, and then interrelating the two zones with intensely mismatched that transgress the boundary with no fear! I love this idea, but I find the bottom half much
1 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
stronger than the upper half since the battle between color temperatures takes place almost exclusively there. Is there a reason that you didn't carry over more of the hot brushstrokes into the upper half? Perhaps I'm looking for too much symmetry here, but your route toward that goal is such an interesting one that my eye needs to see the idea completed. Of course, perhaps the energy of the painting stems from this imbalance, but you could always overpaint to your heart's content if the balancing act doesn't work out for the best....nice work!!
John Valentich 7 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Corey: You mean "HORIZONTALLY bisecting the canvas," right?
The inspiration for this painting came from O'Keeffe's "Red Hills and Pedernal" which I had copied previously. I kept the color palette and position of color masses close to the original. But, there's no reason why I can't carry the abstraction a little further and include more hot colors above the horizontal midline…maybe using thinner hot brush strokes to keep blue dominant in the upper half or just leaving a thin arc of blues across the canvas. I'll try playing with this on the computer and see what happens to the overall look.
Thank you all for the enthusiastic comments! This painting was in a bad state for days until the last 4 or 5 hrs that I worked on it. I thought I finally brought it together, but still wasn't sure. The famous Guston quote: "On a lucky day a surprising balance of forms and spaces will appear..." is really apropos to my experience. I'm now inspired to try Guston technique on other landscape abstractions I want to do. Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago in reply to John Valentich excellent history of that canvas. But when it comes to paintings like this, I think luck is just short hand for good seeing and thinking! oh and it's just semantics, I mean using a horizontal line to bisect the canvas into vertical halves...
marc brickman 7 days ago i like this very much as it reflects guston quite well... especially in the middle of the painting, your eye goes there first. good work! Candi Imming 7 days ago Love the color experience, John.
John Valentich 6 days ago in reply to marc brickman You raise an important point. Do I really want the viewer's eye to immediately go to the center or do I want the eye to wander around the painting a bit first? Could I achieve this by scattering small amounts of high chroma colors around the outer areas of the painting?
2 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
marc brickman 4 days ago i understand the question. i would answer that your mind took over and gave you the answer to the exercise. i think it os spot on! kristen lyn morrison 6 days ago Still trying to catch up. Here is my Guston Self with Cat. Kristen Attachments:
Merren Booth 4 days ago charming!
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago guston second attempt.... I repainted puppy painting. i used a guston painting as a source, but the reproduction i had was pretty bad....so....here it is! (so what i mean is it doesn't really look like the guston painting at all.....) oh, so i am posting 2 photos of the same painting because i couldn't really tell right away which one reproduces the color most accurately.... Attachments:
Kathy Gold 8 days ago Penelope - I really like it. The colors are luscious.
Penelope Rothfield 8 days ago Thanks, Kathy! Candi Imming 7 days ago I find this Penelope Rothfield lovely!
John Valentich 6 days ago You did a beautiful job with the brushwork and muted colors. Everything's so subtle. I'm a bit ambivalent about the black and red dabs. I think it's because they impinge on the sense of subtlety and mystery I like so much. I'd have to concur with Corey's thought about reducing the dramatic color transition…but maybe that was what you were trying to accomplish in the first place?!
3 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Penelope Rothfield 4 days ago Thanks Candi and John! You may be right, John, that i might have have made the color transition less dramatic. Painting is so hard!!!! I have to try better to resist the compulsion to do "just one more thing" and to get a better feel for when to stop.....thanks for your comments. Lisa Ormerod 18 days ago I found this week to be a lot of fun. I did some of the zen exercises that Cage encouraged Guston to do and I did one painting but have uploaded two versions of it, one the first take and then the second. The painting is oil and the drawings are ink on paper. Attachments:
Merren Booth 17 days ago Both artworks are wonderful! Your brushstrokes in the painting are so relaxed. The colors melt into one another so beautifully. Your zen drawings have inspired me....third grade is going to do different projects with ink this week (blotting, blowing, sgraffito monoprint) and I want to add this one in to the mix!
Corey d'Augustine 17 days ago wow nice! I especially like your drawings that have a very light and direct visual impact. Did you do many of them? I love the first one and suggest hanging that on the wall, in your house or studio, to live by for a while. I bet you'll see more avenue out of that sketch than you do right now, so I'll keep my trap closed and will let you explore it yourself. It seems like you've taken your painting in a looser direction since your photo, but I think you may have gone a bit too far. You're actually reenacting Guston's own historical arc of the 50's and 60's has his forms gradually coalesced and became increasingly gooey and runny. I enjoy the crisp definition of your individual brushstrokes in the first image though, and I wonder if you could begin to bring them back in the current state. A few horizontal strokes could go a long way toward balance as well, although I also appreciate how you've accented the vertical thus far....
Lisa Ormerod 16 days ago Thanks Corey! I actually have done more of the drawings and am exploring some of the shapes I am coming up with. Your comment about Guston is interesting because I was looking at an older work that is here at SFMoMA. I had thoughts on the same arc about the brushstrokes between the first and second version. I hope to revisit it and add some more variation in the direction and size of the brushstrokes. Lisa Ormerod 10 days ago I keep fussing with this Guston and have attached all 4 in succession, I think a heavier application of paint would add more interest to the brighter strokes but as a first attempt, I am quite pleased with what I learned and am leaning. :)
4 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
marc brickman 10 days ago great work.. especially love the line drawings.. John Valentich 8 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Thanks for sharing the evolution of your painting with us. I very much like the end result and the color decisions you made along the way. I too fought with brush stroke definition in trying to achieve a Guston look. However, my difficulties came from the other direction…earlier versions of my painting looked like a crossword puzzle. I really had to force myself to "open up" the painting and get a freer look. Using 4 different brush widths helped with this but I still think my painting looks a bit too mechanical. One thing I'd like to change is increased variation in brush stroke length, as you've done in your painting. Lisa Ormerod 5 days ago Thanks! I am exploring the drawings on my own. Who knows what's going to come from them! In the painting I did vary the width of the brushes, not sure that Guston really did, he varied the amount of paint on the brushes which I found to be a real challenge for me, I tend towards using less paint and fussing within the brushstroke and Guston used more paint AND fussed within the brushstroke... practice practice practice! marc brickman 20 days ago
this week was a block for me.. i could not get rothko out of my head... sprinkle in ryman and i am lost..
so, this is guston maybe.. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 18 days ago Hi Marc, in the future, would you please rotate your photos to the correct orientation before posting? Someone from the tech forum can help you if you're struggling with that. Also it would be great not to crop off the edges of the painting! The image is a bit out of focus, but it looks like you've done very well in achieving the physical qualities of Guston's paint of the 1960s onward: a runny, fluid smear that passes rapidly over the surface without much resistance to the brush. I would suggest allowing
5 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
this paint to accumulate more densely than you have though, since it qualities become all the more dramatic when the paint pools into solid forms rather than running in narrow bands. For example, some of the open forms you've created could be filled in to further enhance the lugubrious red and black palette over the cool blue/gray ground, another trademark Guston device that you've adopted nicely. And finally, since your paint is so seductive to the eye in all of its runny glory, I'd like to see it cover the entire painting rather than leaving dry areas of ground and underpainting visible. I think you've gotten your toes wet in this paint nicely, now dive in!
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago I rather like this and do I see a "dick" in there!
Merren Booth 18 days ago I can see the connection to Guston in your brushwork. Before this course began I thought we were going to make copies of the different artists but it has been much more interesting to see how we have applied methods and styles to our individual artistic inclinations!
marc brickman 18 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin thank you.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder..:)
marc brickman 18 days ago in reply to marc brickman first off, thank you..i can't see any connection.. maybe next week will be better.. love your work!
Penelope Rothfield 18 days ago in reply to Merren Booth i can see the connection as well--the linear quality --the drawing in a kind of cartoon-y manner is definitely there...
John Valentich 8 days ago in reply to Merren Booth In general, I concur. But I'm personally uncomfortable with tinkering with a master artist's style before I have a tidbit of competence in replicating that style and facture. Without this competence I think we're just freelancing. Candi Imming 13 days ago Corey, good advice on Hot Flash....it looks more like flowing water by painting the blue when the pink was still wet. It also minimized the red outline a bit. Also took another stab at an abstract. Have to say I like PG. Hopefully the rest of the class does not feel too overexposed to Hot Flash.
6 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 12 days ago nice! I love them both!
Candi Imming 12 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Whooohooo! Thank You!
Lulu Godwin 11 days ago Hot Flash is wonderful!! works really well with the blue water added
John Valentich 8 days ago I just hate Guston's later "cartoon" phase, so with that baggage revealed, I do like the creativity in Hot Flash with glass and ice cubes, clock and dominant, focused eyeball. Lorinda Knight 15 days ago Fortune Cookie 2 I channeled Jay De Feo and repeated _double the brush load_ as a mantra and I like the results. But now what do I do? Corey, you said to bring it back into resolution after the paint dries. How long do you estimate that will take? And should I do anything further while the paint is still wet? Thanks.
7 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 14 days ago Depending on the consistency of your paint and which specific pigments are in it, oils can dry to the touch in in anywhere from about 3 days to 3 weeks. Of course you can also paint gently on top of it so as to avoid remixing colors even if the paint on the surface is still quite wet.
Lorinda Knight 14 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I was hoping you would also have a comment about the painting. I guess maybe you think it is a disaster -- but why? Corey d'Augustine 13 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight Not at all, I think it's quite weird and interesting!! There's a complete rupture between the figure and ground, both in space and handling of paint, but I think you've established a strong pictorial sense of gravity in your colored form that achieves a complete balance. I think the yellow brsuhstroke is key to this effect, nice work!
Lorinda Knight 12 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine When it comes to Guston, weird is good. And it was a stretch for me. Thanks! Kathia G 17 days ago My two Gustons...one isn´t really but his character reminded me to Pacman. I need to change the eye shape and incorporate a clock and a light to make it look more Guston´s. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 13 days ago haha, ominous Guston meets Nintendo, didn't see that one coming! I think it's a fun painting, but I'd love to see some of the painterly approaches you've used in your first painting applied to the cartooning one too. For example, bulk up your paint with juicy medium and allow the paint to run wild a bit. At times, zoom in on a 3" square section of your painting and treat it like a stand-alone abstract painting. Keep working on that area until it's interesting enough to the eye to be considered a completed abstract painting, and then move on to the next little zone and do the same. After a while of this appraoch, you'll probably need to zoom out again and make sure that you're figures are still legible,
8 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
but this approach will ensure a painting that has the graphic pop you've already achieved in combination with enough painterly nuance to keep the eye from getting too restless. I like the idea, keep it up!
Candi Imming 17 days ago Guston inspired, but not Guston like, as I painted her lush with pretty much one color...he would not have done that. "Hot Flash" in a Flashdance moment. I had too much fun painting her not to share it here. What can I say-- I like figures.
marc brickman 17 days ago brilliant.. i wish i could do that! Corey d'Augustine 17 days ago I love the clock! You've taken that ominous ticking sound and taken it on vacation where the clock can't tick slow enough! I agree with your comment about the red contour and personally prefer how you've handled the glass in a more caricaturesque way, but more importantly, I think you could further explore the painterly qualities of direct painting technique (i.e. wet-in-wet) in this cartooning direction. There are many areas where two colors come together that could mix beautifully (e.g. the teal and red and black overlapping into a bizarre full chroma swirl), but you're painting leaves them dryly coexisting instead. If you compare Guston's work of the 70s with other cartooning painters like R.Crumb, the difference in their engagement with the medium becomes very clear. Give it a shot!
Kathia G 17 days ago Love it!
9 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Candi Imming 16 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. I hear you and I thought about changing her, but I might need to experiment on a surrogate first. I got a book on Guston, which makes all the difference, and I could tell where I left his beaten path for my own. That being said his work has a great deal more detail than mine does and he wants to make it gritty. It makes it a bit more interesting, too. I am not so sure I want to go gritty with Hot Flash, but I will experiment. I change my mind on stuff all of the time and go back to repaint, so I will ponder your words of wisdom. I always appreciate the insights.
Merren Booth 15 days ago Awesome!
Candi Imming 15 days ago in reply to Kathia G Thanks, Kathia, Merren, and Marc...glad you like Hot Flash...she was a blast to paint. I laughed a bit when I did her.
Merren Booth 18 days ago I too played it safe this week and went with Guston's AbEx period, though the idea of developing a personal iconography is a tempting one! Certainly my students draw the same imagery over and over when they have extra time in class to "free draw".
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 17 days ago Nice work Merren! You've also taken Guston in a thinner, smoother direction without the crusty impasto that he became known for in the 1950s, but you've certainly adopted his gradually building network of brushwork near the center of the painting. The detail images show that you've handled the paint quite finely, but I'd like to see even more subtle brushwork employed to further soften the transition between the background and the edges of your floating form. Your use of drybrush marks instead of toothpaste-y dabs of color is an interesting departure from Guston, but I think it would be even more interesting if you maintained his creeping sense of drama as the eye hones in on the pictorial center of the canvas....
Merren Booth 15 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey, I agree the closer you get the more abrupt the transitions appear. I'll tackle it again later...I am thinking all these paintings will be a summer project/deja vu all
10 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
over again.
Lorinda Knight 18 days ago Fortune Cookie Guston was not one of my favorite artists coming into this course. But I think I have learned more about pushing paint around this week and also felt free to improvise. I like Guston's work from circa 1970. After my first morning in the studio, my painting was way too subtle compared to Guston's later compositions. The next day I laid in some extreme contrast with the green pepper and knife handle and quantities of paint. Today I worked on reconciling the two. There is no end to the process (but it's Sunday and the week ends). Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago I find this delightful in every way - colours, composition and brush strokes. and yummy paint.
Merren Booth 18 days ago I like this mashup of Guston stylisitic periods very much! I think you nailed his use of color. This class seems to be all about controlling the color!
Lorinda Knight 17 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Lulu. I can see going further with this fortune cookie idea. I have a whole bag of them! Lorinda Knight 17 days ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks, Merren. I think the painting needs to be a little more coarse in order to be closer to Guston but it was a good challenge to mix the colors. Corey d'Augustine 17 days ago Interesting painting Lorinda. Your dominant use of white space is about as unGustonlike as it gets - his sense of pictorial claustrophobia always makes me think of the story of him drawing in the closet as a child - but I like how you've begun to open yourself to the fluid consistencies of paint. Was this done from an actual still life? It makes me think of Mondrian's still life paintings as he was edging toward abstraction, and you've already incorporated his trademark empty white space. As mentioned in the lecture, Morandi was another principle influence that your painting recalls. Now that you've established this nice resolution and photographed it, I encourage you to go headlong through the door you opened. Risk the entire painting by doubling your brushload and its medium content and allow the brush to mop the surface left and right. Allow the paint to blend wet in wet and lose control a bit as the low viscosity allows the runny paint to move freely. Intend to go too far, and then bring it back into resolution only after drying. I think you'll appreciate where the exploration leads!
11 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lorinda Knight 16 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Yes, I was thinking of doing what you propose and risking all by losing control. I have to say that I don't think of white space as empty though. Thanks for your good advice. Penelope Rothfield 20 days ago Hi Corey and Everyone-- I call this one "Puppy Painting"--i swear there's a puppy in there! Well, you'd think by now that i might have learned to simply print out a few examples of the artists paintings and then keep them nearby while i try to paint in the style of...i think i'm starting to catch on.....looking at the photo of Puppy Painting now, I can see a few things a might have done differently. when i first finished the painting i really didn't like the brush strokes which looked like i was basket weaving the paint so i went over a few of them with a dry brush sort of blending them and unfortunately that is not at all the look of a philip guston painting i can see that now....the other objection i have to this painting i actually really can't bring myself to mention (maybe no one will notice....). painting with lots of varnish is a very pleasurable experience i found--i love the feeling of it--maybe i used too much....don't know....i had fun too applying the paint to the canvas and then dragging the brush and then sort of popping the brush up ...... Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 20 days ago I really like this. The paint looks gorgeous.
Candi Imming 19 days ago Penelope, the paint looks luscious. I like the name and I think I see the puppy, too. Like the look of this.
Penelope Rothfield 19 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks LuLu, and I hope you have (or are having) a great time in NYC. Penelope Rothfield 19 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Thanks, Candi! Corey d'Augustine 18 days ago Hi Penelope, not to worry, Guston also fell in love with large medium/varnish additions to his paint directly after his first abstractions in the earl 1950s, so you've intuitively gone in the same direction he did. Your painting certainly has a nice ebb and flow to it, and I especially like how gradually you've brought the body of the form into focus. However, I think this subtlety is missing from your dramatic pops of high chroma color and intense black. These colors are well chosen, but you've applied them a bit coarsely, or at least
12 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
they look that way relative to the more nuanced brushwork underneath them. I would suggest brushing back into them to both reduce their size (a little goes a long way with such contrasts of chroma and value) and integrate them into the underlying form a bit. Did you by chance take a photo of the painting before those dramatic strokes were added? Sometimes a quiet painting like that has all the drama it needs....
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Thanks P - I signed up for Corey's course on 12 May while I am in NYC. If you "like" MOMALICIOUS 2012 on Facebook I will post updates there . Cheers
Merren Booth 18 days ago How big is this? Your title and the shiny surface makes me think it is quite small and precious like those bejeweled prayer books from the Middle Ages.... love the softer colors under the blue and red!
Penelope Rothfield 18 days ago in reply to Merren Booth Thanks, Merren, what a lovely image! It is actually fairly small--12" x 12"--I originally worked on a canvas that was much larger, but i really screwed it up and couldn't quickly repair the damage so......
Kathy Gold 23 days ago Here is my Guston effort. I will be out of town for a week, so this will probably be it for Guston. I tried to do a very quick painting in one defined time period--inspired by the Buddhist notion of one take, although this was quite different from one sustained stroke. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago Did you paint it wet into wet - I did that on my first attempt and it went all mushy so I had to ditch it. I like your colours.
Kathy Gold 23 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Yes, it is wet into wet. I did it very quickly and it is so easy to mush the colors.
Kathy Gold 23 days ago I am attaching two more photos of the same painting because I get so frustrated with how the colors are different in different conditions. #1a is the closest to how it looks to me in real life. Also, the first one I posted as "upside down"--or not. Attachments:
13 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold Hi Kathy, this looks nice! Guston was known for marathon paint sessions where he didn't even withdraw from the easel for a smoke or a beer, imagine that! So you're working in a related way. I think you have many things working for you in this painting but there are 2 issues I see that are preventing your painting from flowing. First, you have made a rather stark figure/ground relationship between the floating central form and it background. Instead, I suggest thinking about figure ground relationships for each and every brushstroke, so that each one has its own identity, rather than contributing in an equal way to a larger form. Through this approach, your floating form will gradually emerge from the field rather than popping off of it so that your painting can be viewed in a more engaging, prolonged, and dramatic way. Also, I think the general shape of your central form contributes to a bit of a static feeling since it is rather squarish, which makes a box in a box kind of composition, which isn't so kind to the eye. I would suggest googling some Mondrian images (a principal source for Guston) to see how he balances various asymmetries around the center of the canvas. By alternately carving into and pulling off of your form, you can allow it a more organic and interesting contour that will lead the eye around the canvas in a more engaging way....
John Valentich 21 days ago Great job keeping the brushstrokes and colors distinct in wet on wet painting. Nice! Merren Booth 18 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold These are very subtle and complex! The multiple views helped me to see all the shifting values and colors.
Candi Imming 24 days ago Philip Guston appeals to me. I like his painting "Native's Return" epecially the color combo. I tried to emulate him, but I am not sure I was 100% successful in "Kumbaya Return" or PG1. I also took a stab at his figurative style, but with my own story. It is not me except...I have a weakness for frosted doughnuts.
14 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
This is PG2 or "Under the Sheet with Flashlight and Doughnut" . Instead of a clock I have a scale. As a kid I would read like this at night, under the sheet. I hope you find the humor in this, as I had a great time doing it.
Lisa Ormerod 23 days ago Candi, I love your doughnut take on Guston! Its funny! Penelope Rothfield 23 days ago Candi, I love these paintings! PG1 is awesome--and the cartoon-y one is amazing as well. I used to read under the sheets too! but not with a flashlight but with a lamp (with the shade off)! -- ultimately burned a hole through a blanket and got into lots of trouble.... Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago haha, I think Guston would have appreciated that! In both cases, I think you need to use a greater volume of paint. One of the amazing thing about the late cartooning paintings is that they're not graphic, but instead are richly painted (like his works in the 60s) with generous additions of medium and varnish. In fact, if you zero in on one square inch of the figurative paintings, you're very likely to find as much painterly interest there as in his earlier abstract work. Speaking of which, in your first painting, I think you've understood
15 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
the central idea well, but I think you rushed to the punch line a bit by not allowing enough of a gradual transition between the form and the ground. A little more nuance here will establish the drama of the painting, and it will correlate the figure and ground so they didn't seem like they belong to two different spaces, as they do in your painting. I also miss the sculptural effect of Guston's abstract work since it seems that your paints are rather thin and that you've pressed them down into the support. Instead, try modeling your brush strokes gently like clay or icing on a cake... I think you'll like how the paint goes down!
Candi Imming 23 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Lisa, Penelope, and Kathy for the nice comments. Corey, I will now go and frost these paintings with more paint...appreciate the guidance and comments from you, as always.
Kathy Gold 23 days ago Candi - you made me smile! Love the doughnut and flashlight.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago Love the doughnut painting!
Candi Imming 22 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Thanks, Lulu. A stripper in Guston style would be fun. I will think about it. I did slap on more paint so both are a little different now, but I think improved.
16 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 18 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Yes they are better and better. I like the more dramatic lighting in the first--really intensifies the feeling of doughnut obsession! and there is more atmosphere in the background of the second.
Lulu Godwin 25 days ago 1. Malice in Wonderland I tried to make a "Clock" but found the brush strokes monotonous and foreign in that I do not do cross hatching or equal brush strokes size. So then I poured silver paint onto the canvas and let it slurp around letting my Jack the Dripper come out. I also had difficulty making the center of the painting the focus - as all brush strokes lead to it. So I as I worked I had to add colour and dribbles as I went and a big slash of scraping paint off the canvas back to the canvas underneath. It was against my religion it appears to make the center the only arbitrator of colour other than silver, so ssssh colours sneaked out a bit. Then I let it sit for a couple of days and came back and worked more pastels and whitey tones and various shapes of crosses. Then I liked it. Then I really liked it !! after a few days when I realized WOW look at all the shades of grey and grey can be beautiful. This proved to be an excellent learning exercise for me. 2. Black Dick Went Walking I painted this the day after I posting my dislike of Guston's cartoons. I went to paint something totally different but out popped a cartoon like painting! So I guess Guston's cartoons must have imbedded themselves into my subconsciousness where they percolated and got translated into this. It was not my intention to produce this type of cartoony painting! I had fun doing it . FYI the colours are not as garish as they appear - I am having trouble photographing the colours accurately and to show up brush strokes etc. I had fun being Mr. Guston after a rocky start!
17 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago Hi Lulu, these are both very interesting, especially in that neither was really what you intended at all, but both suggest interesting directions for you to pursue in the future. Your first canvas is quite dynamic, especially in the sense that your painting's severe chromatic imbalance is somehow balanced by the centrality and gestural density orbiting around it. This balancing of disparate tendencies is a valuable tool to composing (i.e. relational composition) and can be traced back to Mondrian, whose incessant cigarette breaks and revisions were, despite their apparent dissimilarity as painters, a great influence on the approach of his fellow countryman Willem de Kooning. I'm not sure if you arrived at that solution intuitively or whether you may have had dK on the brain (as Guston certainly did in the late 50s), but either way I'm very glad to see you working in this very productive way!
Penelope Rothfield 23 days ago Wow Lulu--both paintings look really good. I agree that the grey and grey "Malice in Wonderland" is very beautiful. "Black Dick Went Walking" is interesting (i like the title as well--"went walking" instead of just "walking") I especially like the blue and green around the black areas... Lorinda Knight 23 days ago I think the first painting is really terrific! And I see a lot of color in it -- not just grey. To me it is similar to some excellent second generation Ab Ex people (like Joan Mitchell). Kathy Gold 23 days ago I love malice in wonderland. It's quite lovely.
Candi Imming 23 days ago Keep them coming, Lulu. Always appreciate your inspired works. I think "Malice" turned out great. Of course, I also enjoy BDWW...very cool, I keep seeing it on a t-shirt, too.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Gracias senor and yes I do think I must have had DeK on the brain as I see it sort of incorporates part of him! I do work intuitively and that is why I signed up for this course - to become more conscious in the way I approach my painting. Now imagine if I still smoked and could take smoke breaks - and also drank - then maybe I could do a deK!!
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Thanks Penelope - BDWW is a very poor photo but it makes me laugh every time I look
18 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
at it. And the other one, well it is currently my favourite new baby.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight ooooh I love Joan Mitchell and her long brush strokes. One day I'd like to attempt a combo DeK Joan Mitchell - wouldn't that be alright!!! Thanks
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold Thanks Kathy and modestly may I say I am rather proud of it.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Candi Imming A T shirt YEAH BABY !!!!!!!and we could do a series with your doughnut painting. MOMALICIOUS 2012 series - anyone else want to join in and give part of our proceeds to charity ??? Briliant Ms. Candi Baby. Please LIKE us on Facebook at MOMALICIOUS 2012 and come post your post there and chat so we can stay in touch when Corey dumps us boo hoo at the end of the month. Corey be great to see you there on FB too. xxx hugs from Vancouver to all
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago in reply to Candi Imming ssssh by day I am a paralegal and I have worked extensively on Indian Residential School files - I believe you had the same system in the US which basically kidnapped the kids off the Reservations and forced them into boarding schools where they were stripped of their identities and abused. Anyhow..... any time you see a cross in my work, it is a reference to the legacy the Catholic Church - what it has done to indigineous peoples around the globe, and the legacy its priests continue to leave with sexual abuse. Sorry to you ardent Catholics, but I am an artist and entitled to put my thoughts into my paintings. Et voila that explains the title, non?
Corey d'Augustine 23 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin sorry Lulu, no facebook for me!
Lulu Godwin 22 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine aaaah Corey you are missing out
paula J swett 22 days ago love your pieces Ahh Lulu, you've done it again. I love the malicious inwonderland. i love greys with subtle colors and will post a piece that has greys and yellow hopefully later this week.
19 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 21 days ago in reply to paula J swett Cool! Look forward to seeing it.
John Valentich 21 days ago Black Dick Went Walking is cute but Malice in Wonderland is elegant. Lots of artistic creativity in there…and I don't think it's derivative of dK OR PG. Well played! Lulu Godwin 20 days ago in reply to John Valentich Gracias senor.
Merren Booth 18 days ago Malice gets my vote! Once again you have taken an artist method and made your own original with it!
20 of 20 5/11/12 7:44 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 8: Theme and Variation vs. Stylistic Rupture Lisa Ormerod 22 days ago I think that the public, in general, wants to see a logical progression of an artist's body of work. The desire to see the progression is one that is possibly locked into a desire to understand, to place the work in a logical order. I think it is part of how humans make sense of the world, we can extrapolate on what to expect next helping with meaning and understanding. In the art marketplace it is desirable for the artist to have a logical progression in order for the work to be sold, to be deciphered, so the work can be written about and promoted. That how it works in the commercial world. Tide can't become a breakfast food as no one would understand that progression at the very least it would be a hard sell. Personally, I enjoy a left turn. I like the exploration of ideas and mediums and the paths that the artist takes the work. In the exploration of the unexpected and the unfamiliar is where an artist can really grow and discover. In art school my professors would often tell us to really understand and look at our "mistakes" and push us out of making work that we are comfortable with in order to help us grow. In some cases the exploration lingered in the same neighborhoods and others visited different countries and planets! Exploration is the expedition and leave it to curators, gallerists and writers to pull together something that makes logical sense!
Merren Booth 18 days ago No one who is creative should become a slave to the desires of the public. Thomas Kinkade, case in point! Also those poor rock stars of the seventies and eighties who continue to tour and play songs that are now 50 years old. If you are good, you will always be coming up with something new and interesting.
Candi Imming 23 days ago Philip Guston appeals to me in both his abstracts and his figures. I like the guy. He seems the most real to me of the lot. I find it interesting when he went in a completely unexpected direction how he lost support and friends along the way. Many artists can get trapped by their success, as fans do not want them to change. Yet change often happens as they explore and try new things. That should be ok. I did not always like his figures, but actually this class has expanded my thinking and I have looked at a great deal more of his work. Due to having more information about his personal history, the figurative work becomes a bit easier to understand and appreciate. I admire the courage it took to persevere and create images very few people enjoyed and supported. I would like to do soles/souls that include high heels, as women seemed a bit neglected in his coverage, except for a few images that must have represented his wife. I am sure I will find a few ways to include his perspective in some future projects.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago M. Guston somehow seems to have snuck up on me and stolen part of my heart the sneaky devil.
Lulu Godwin 23 days ago Agreed Ms. Candi. Are you going to paint a stripper next - just asking cause you made that comment in the first posting so I have been waiting....maybe a DeK wobbly watery stripper? One day in the not too distant future you and I have to get together and do some serious painting woman!
1 of 3 5/11/12 7:42 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Merren Booth 18 days ago Hear hear!
Lulu Godwin 29 days ago do it your way I don't think an artist should be constricted to progress "logically" whatever on earth that means to an artist - relate to each other in a succinct way could work as a better measure. In Guston's case I find his cartoons a jarring break from his other work and unappealing. While one can say that for instance Picasso ranged all over the map style wise over his career, maybe as I am unfamiliar with Guston's work I don't find that his work relates in a succinct way. However, one could say the same for Picasso at first and second and third glance, and it is only after the eye is educated that one makes the connections. So if I study Guston in greater depth, I may find the thread. His cartoons will however continue to be unappealing and a blot on his report card!
Merren Booth 18 days ago Picasso is a perfect example, as are the Beatles!
Merren Booth 18 days ago Before this week I knew only about Guston's late figurative paintings. Seeing the whole arc of his career helps me better understand and I think appreciate his work. For instance, his brushwork and coloration in the late paintings is just as subtle as his AbEx stuff. As far as a logical progression to a career goes, I'm not sure how logical you can be once you leave school and begin to work professionally. (I know Guston did not complete his formal training but he still began making a living from his art at about the same age as most people graduate.) What is the logical progression to a medical career? Or a scientific one? Artists do not become CEO's or Supreme Court Judges or Presidents. Is Stephen King's latest novel more important than his early short stories? Art is not linearly progressive! I am working in glass now, and I studied printmaking in college. I still love printmaking, but I want to do glass! I think if you can have some perspective--say the decades since Guston's death--to look at an artist's body of work, you can see clearly how it all relates. I feel sorry that so many people turned against him in the contemporary moment. That must have been horrible, and yet he had the strength to believe in himself (and he was a self-confessed doubter, no less) and keep up the work.
Penelope Rothfield 20 days ago Life vs The Brand I have for a long time liked Guston's cartooning work (although in general i do not like cartoon-y art). I guess I knew that he had once painted abstractions but i had never seen them before the MoMA class. I feel a lot of compassion towards him when i look at his abstractions. It's interesting to see too the way he chunks his objects in the cartoony work, but he also kind of chunks something that kind of looks lik an object in the abstractions. So i guess i see a lot of continuity between the abstract work and the later cartoony stuff. i love the backgrounds of Guston's paintings--that's what usually attracts me. Is it desirable for an artist's career to progress logically? I don't know if there even is such a thing as progress! No I guess i don't think that an artist's work should necessarily relate to each other in a succinct way. In order to
2 of 3 5/11/12 7:42 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
really live one has to change--so to pretend that you are going to have one idea when your 18 and then stick with it until your 80 or so is just crazy! and to complicate matters people contain not just one self that changes, but multiple selves. And some artists do their best work early and others later in life. In any case--we don't, as artists, have to live under the authority of "The Brand". --to do so or not is a choice. I know a lot of artists think that the idea that one can make one's own rules-- and still make art --is "charming". I get that there are practices in the Art World that have nothing to do with art and have everything to do with the marketplace, but to hear people say that "that's just the way it is" --i mean what is at stake here? Everything.
Penelope Rothfield 20 days ago I forget to say that I am very grateful to Guston for making the choice to follow is instincts/interests and abandon the abstract work. I have a lot of respect for that and think of the example of his life as a kind of gift to all of us. How lucky we are that he made that choice and also talked about it! I think of him in many ways as a kind of Archetype of "The Painter" especially looking at that wonderful painting of his of the couple in bed and the guy is sleeping with his brushes in hand and wearing shoes--so funny and poignant at the same time... Attachments:
Lorinda Knight 23 days ago Guston at work video SFMOMA has some good pages on Guston, especially this video. http://www.sfmoma.org/explore/multimedia/interactive_features/2#
Lulu Godwin 22 days ago Thanks for the video link! great
Kathia G 25 days ago I like his figurative and abstract paintings, but found his cartooning style unappealing and rude. A cartooning style that most likely fit on the newspaper´s comic section, not an art gallery...to my taste. Who would get a figurative painting depicting a character with testicle cheeks?!!! His styles are very different but he was not jumping all over at the same time. It was a transition and that is the beauty of artists...they usually have a free spirit whether everyone like them or not.
3 of 3 5/11/12 7:42 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 9: Classroom Discussion marc brickman 16 days ago the cartoons of reinhardt hi corey, can you tell me the name of the book that has all the cartoons on the subject of art? thank you,
Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago Ad Reinhardt: Art Comics and Satires (1976). Unfortunately long out of print...
Candi Imming 16 days ago Marc, they have two copies on Alibris. One is $400 and the other is $375.
marc brickman 16 days ago thank you both for the info.. definitely put that on the xmas list!!! marc brickman 16 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine also, corey.. since we are waiting for the paint to become.... if one was to make other colours with this same technique to achieve the true matte quality..would the effect be worth the effort. i am dazzled at how he came upon this technique.. Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago in reply to marc brickman Not sure if I understand your question Marc, but yes, this technique is applicable to any pigments in oil.
marc brickman 13 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine thanks.. John Valentich 6 days ago I've seen reproductions of some of these cartoons in books. One that I know of off the top of my head is in "Abstract Expressionism: The Critical Developments." This is a "must have" book" for those interested in NYS painters. You can get a copy for $15-20 on Amazon. Do a search on Google Images and you'll also find some of Ad's cartoons.
Penelope Rothfield 10 days ago a wish Hi everyone and Corey, I'm falling a bit behind this week/last week and only now got a chance to hear the art history lecture on Ad Reinhardt. I thought the lecture was fascinating and i only wish that there was a print version of the lectures so that i could mark it up and write on it and keep it nearby to refer to
1 of 4 5/11/12 7:41 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
when necessary! I love Ad Reinhardt--he is incredibly interesting ----i agree with everything he says. I am also fascinated by the way in which his paintings are difficult if not impossible to conserve and that any object (finger or q-tip) marks the painting in some way which is impossible to remove kind of makes me feel as if his paintings are some sense "alive" and will consequently "die" at a certain point. (what i am trying to ask is this, Corey: could we possibly have a print version of the lecture to print out and mark up?) also i love his tonal blue paintings --i would love to paint my studio walls the same blues as are in his paintings!!! must do that..... as a kind of aside: I painted several black canvases last year (it was just something i was into) and they came out just AWFUL! I mean they looked like shit! My instructor said "well whatever you do, don't varnish them" So I immediately varnished them and they looked even worse! just as she had predicted--all the varnish did was put a magnifying glass over every imperfection. so looking forward to this black painting experiment....falling a bit behind....
Corey d'Augustine 10 days ago haha, glad to hear it! I think you've probably guessed by now that I'm a bit of a Reinhardt nut too... There aren't any transcripts of the lectures, otherwise I'd be happy to share. But I'm hoping to rerecord some of the lectures to improve them a bit, so maybe that could happen then too...
Lisa Ormerod 27 days ago I mixed the three colors and have one question. As you can see in the photo there is separation happening and I am assuming that this is normal. If after the first pour off of solvent I want the color to be darker, can I add more black to it? And if I do add more black, should I ideally wait the same amount of time, one week, before using? What is the correlation is between allowing the concoction to sit and the quality of the paint? Thanks! Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield 27 days ago Lisa--I have the same question. I am having the same experience as well with the separation and I am noticing more of the red, blue, viridian, than i expected, so i am also wondering about darkening the colors......
Corey d'Augustine 26 days ago Hi Lisa, yes the separation is normal, and yes it seems that you have too much color in your paints. You can add more black, remix, and allow to separate again. There are too many variables here for there to be the single connection that you're looking for, which explains why Reinhardt never used a specific recipe, but instead always tested his paint out on newspaper before applying it to canvas.
Lisa Ormerod 24 days ago Thanks. The addition worked except for the red which I ended up remixing.
2 of 4 5/11/12 7:41 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod 15 days ago Another question... In the video you said to use artist grade paint and I used the student grade and am finding that the blacks are too close to tell the difference even after I added some more color, its either too much or too little! sigh All the paint I used was gamblin student grade, Mars black, alerzerin crimson, Veridian, Ultramarine Blue, do you have any wisdom to add or is this really just trial and error no matter which grade of paint you use? Corey d'Augustine 14 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Using student grade shouldn't have an effect on the hue shifts, so I suspect that you're just adding too much or too little. Don't worry, Reinhardt did the same and would doctor his paints continually, so you're in good company!
Lisa Ormerod 13 days ago Thought as much! I remember a photo from your lecture where Reinhardt had dozens of jars next to him. Merren Booth 16 days ago Corey, I have some dry pigments in my classroom that I use when the students make real egg tempera. Would it be ok for me to try making my own sludge by mixing in linseed oil incrementally into the pigment, rather than using Ad's slower settling technique?
Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago Hi Merren, you can try that approach, but you'll never get a truly homogeneous mixture by hand. Ad's technique actually takes advantage of the paint supplier's industrial mixing machines by maintaining that consistency. It would probably take weeks of grinding by hand to get to the same point with such an underbound paint. That Ad guy was pretty smart!
Merren Booth 15 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Ah, I didn't think of that....yes the student paint is usually quite gritty....well, it was a thought!
Michael Clifford 16 days ago Ad lives!
3 of 4 5/11/12 7:41 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago nice!
Candi Imming 28 days ago If we do not do the black paintings of AR, anything else to keep in mind about emulating him in paint this week? I assume we could use acrylic for other works.
Corey d'Augustine 27 days ago Like most artists in this course, Reinhardt avoided acrylics like the plague, although he did some minor restorations of his own paintings in acrylics. Yes, if you're not working in the manner of his late black paintings (which requires oil), feel free to use whatever materials you choose.
Candi Imming 27 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thank you. I now realize how much more this course is slanted towards painting in oils, but I am glad you are open enough to accept acrylic. I probably would not have taken the class otherwise, and I still feel I have learned a great deal without painting in oil. I do see how it could have enriched my experience had I chosen to venture there.
4 of 4 5/11/12 7:41 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 9 : Studio Discussion Kathia G 2 days ago Finally! I put some gesso to create texture and differentiate my squares. One of them came shinny...maybe got mixed with another color when I was reapplying the paintings. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 24 days ago 1. April in Fukishima I could not go all black - too gloomy and I am not ready to die quite yet ! I like the earlier tonal white painting you showed at MOMA in the video and I decided to try a combo. But I kept thinking of the Japanese prints and here is what came out. I made my own black but this is all acrylic. The black was very thick and juicy - made by mixing up a batch of liqud black acrylic with a thick Raw Umber regular paint - I let it sit for a day to dry out a bit which made it very creamy. Even though the black was thick, what has buckled the canvas is the approx. 6 layers of different tones of white paint so I will have to restretch it. I was going to call it Fukishima Walmart as maybe it looks like crap you buy at Walmart or maybe it looks like wrapping paper? Attachments:
John Valentich 2 days ago I really like this. I like the design and I like how you've applied the paint. It has a definite oriental look and I'm sure I'm not seeing all the detail in the white. I don't perceive the conflict between gesture and geometry Corey refers to. All the painting could be interpreted, IMO, as gesture. John Valentich 2 days ago Reinhardt 1 I'll get back to this once my nerves settle down.
The colors are: Ultramarine Blue - center
1 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
vertical Mars Black - top horizontal Alizarin Crimson - middle horizontal Viridian - bottom horizontal
Merren Booth 2 days ago This looks very matte, and I can see the colors easily on my monitor. Great!
Lisa Ormerod 7 days ago Phew! This is one exhausting exercise BUT I did feel like I finally achieved a little tiny bit of success! Actually I really enjoyed this practice. I loved mixing the paints and then trying to put them on the canvas very quietly. I have put on four coats however the images are coat 2 and 3. I keep striving to perfection! Years away I am certain! :) I created two sets of colors. One with more color pigment, one with less. The first image was painted with the more color mix and the second was painted with the less color mix, painted on the same canvas. As you can see the first one had a lot of brushstrokes and uneven color plus too much color itself. The second one, used the darker mix of colors and the red corners in person, have no brushstrokes that I can see, although the green and blue have some. The colors are a little closer in value, at least I feel like I achieved a fairly close dark grey! I did put a fourth coating on and am waiting for it to dry to see if I am getting closer which I will post later but as this is eking into the final Stella week, I wanted to get something up before Friday! Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago Nice work Lisa! I can tell that you're improving on this idiosyncratic technique from layer to layer. I think your colors are quite nice in both paintings, both the more pronounced and more subtle color intervals. I also agree that the main trouble so far is leaving brushwork behind, but guess what, Reinhardt often had this problem too, so you're in very good company. Your approach of waiting a bit and then overpainting is the right one.
2 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I've seen Reinhardt cross sections when he nailed a good surface in 2-3 coats, and others that have upwards of 12, so keep at it with that single goal in sight....
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago reinhardt experiment Hi everyone and Corey, I am not sure if i added enough of the primary colors to the black when i originally mixed the paints. i might actually have to add a bit more. The middle section --squares 4, 5, 6, --well--they are just horrendous. i don't know what went wrong. well-- for one thing, I should not have painted all three squares as if they were one space, but rather should have painted each individually. perhaps i should go over them. what do you think? Thanks in advance for any feedback--i appreciate it. (i know i'm a bit late.....) Attachments:
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago well, i added a bit more viridian to the mars black in the jar, but i don't think the paint will be ready in time for me to work more on this painting before the end of the week..... Lisa Ormerod 8 days ago Hey Penelope! I had the same problem with my middle line and went back to paint them individually. It did work a lot better. I think this exercise at once teaches the discipline of precision mixing and painting! Penelope Rothfield 8 days ago Ha! I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one to paint the middle line as one space! Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago Hi Penelope, don't be so hard on yourself! This is a very unforgiving technique where each little mistake is magnified by the qualities of paint....which makes Reinhardt's paintings all the more impressive! Also, he did sometimes paint a band of 3 squares together in one pass, and on canvases that measure 6 feet square! so you can imagine the difficulty involved there too.... Yes, I suggest painting over your less-than-perfect squares if you'd like to improve them, but definitely wait a bit for the oil to dry (i.e. not just the solvent to evaporate). Otherwise, you're liable to pull up chunks of sort-of-dry paint that will leave ugly divots on your surface. Personally, I think the color differences are subtle but interesting, but you could certainly amp them up a bit too if you prefer....
marc brickman 11 days ago i didn't get a sense of the pigments in the various sludges. i followed the instructions. could you give us a bit more insight about the pigment
3 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
thanks, marc
btw, this haiku on my mac just does not like the suggestions your tech team has proffered. my apologies
Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 10 days ago Sure, happy to help! What is your question about the pigment?
marc brickman 10 days ago as you can see in my example which has posted correctly this week, there is no real difference in the black even though i mixed 3 separate jars as instructed. i was curious as to amounts even though in the lecture you made a point in telling us there was no exact science.
should i re do in the same jar with more pigment colour and try a second coat?
or do i begin all over again..
i did see the colour in the jar separating, when i pour off the top clear liquid i stopped at the sludge. Corey d'Augustine 10 days ago in reply to marc brickman Hi Marc, Yes, you can add more "color" to each of the jars and remix. In fact, Reinhardt kept his jars "going" for often years on end, refilling and topping off as necessary. I do see different colors in your painting, but yours is closer to Reinhardt's very last works which are quite close in color. If you prefer a more robust difference, then perhaps double the amount of your colors. There's no measurement to provide since pigment loads vary so widely between different paint manufacturers, and different pigments (and their cheap student grade substitutes!) have very different coloring strengths. and don't be too concerned, this is a very difficult painting technique!! best of luck!
marc brickman 10 days ago thank you.. and thank you for the past weeks knowledge. it has widened my view as a painter and opened up my mind to possibilities..
4 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
i hope we run in to each other again! Kathy Gold 11 days ago I think it's funny that the exercise this week was so unphotogenic. It's very Zen...
I tried a black painting--more of an educational experience than anything else. In my second painting, I was originally inspired by some of the Ad Reinhardt paintings in the video you showed, but as you can see it has morphed into something else entirely. It's a work in progress. I'm not sure if any Ad is visible, but he was my jumping-off point. Well, that download didn't work--I'll try again. Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 10 days ago wow these are cool! I can't say I'm a fan of how your green turned out though. At least in the photo, it looks a little pea soup-y, but it certainly leaves a lasting impression! which is always a good thing... But I really love your 2nd painting! I can see how your took off from some of Ad's early collaged work and taken it back in the direction of European Constructivism. I love the contrast between the intensely colored areas and the blank white space, and I also like your use of a strong asymmetry. Ad was very influenced by Mondrian's dynamic balance and you've chosen to skip that in favor of a distinct lack of resolution, but I love where it ended up. My advice: make 10 of them and start to identify what are the most compelling qualities about them for you, and then keep on refining those qualities. very exciting!
Kathy Gold 10 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey--you've made my day! I was very engaged with the second painting and could happily do 10 more to see where that takes me. I appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, the green painting looks quite pea-soupy in real life as well. I think I posted it because I could...although I do love pea soup.
Merren Booth 11 days ago I can't believe how long it took to get a not terrible picture of a terrible painting. I did not settle out my pigments, so I tried working on unprimed canvas to reduce the shine, and ended up not being able to cover the canvas completely (duh). What a mess. I did however enjoy very much thinking about AR and his writings. Attachments:
5 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 11 days ago I can hear Ad now...no textures, no wrinkles, no gloss, no lumps, no bumps, no humps..... But I think you can tell now how refined his approach was. Not for everyone, clearly, but his method is an exquisite one if you ask me. Just the same, your bizarre everything-goes Ryman-type approach is about as far from Reinhardt as you get, but is strangely funny once you start reconciling all the ivory tower exclusions with your hands-on approach. I wouldn't chuck it just yet, I think that the addition of support textures to a technique that is so designed 180 degrees from that is an interesting (if also perverse) combination!
Michael Clifford 12 days ago A bit of a bodge job but a useful exercise all the same. This piece looks better in the photograph! I used some of the lobster gloss to frame the piece and couldn't resist putting a glossy spot in the middle. I think if I were to take more time on this I might have a mandala in the centre. I have a couple of questions: Would this kind of matte paint work in colour as a ground for a Pollock-esque painting i.e would this paint hold an enamel paint? The next question is about basic painting technique. Is there a way of avoiding creating a lip when painting a stroke with a fully loaded brush? See the frame edging- a disaster?
Corey d'Augustine 12 days ago hey Michael, this is an interesting painting! Perhaps more Rodchenko than Reinhardt, but
6 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
meditative just the same. As you'll see next week, your composition has more than a little to do with Frank Stella as well, which isn't a coincidence since he was also deeply influenced by Reinhardt. Yes, since this is, after all that work, still oil paint, it remains fully compatible with other oils. Just remember the fat-over-lean rule from Week 2, and realize that this is off the charts in the lean direction. Paints applied onto it will definitely "sink" into the black as much of their medium is wicked into this super dry underlayer. The lip you're frustrated by is a function of pressure. To avoid it, you can either glide over the paint (rather than pushing or squeezing it down), or you can remove some paint from your brush on a paper towel or something similar before applying it to the canvas. Reinhardt also was displeased by the appearance of that (in contrast to Ryman, who continues to love it), so he constructed lines with the tip of his brush rather than the side edge....
Lulu Godwin 11 days ago I really like this one Michael
Lorinda Knight 11 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I wondered why you used the tip of your brush in your demo. Now I know! Lorinda Knight 13 days ago I just completed my Reinhardt squares and have a couple of comments and 2 questions. I will wait until Saturday to photograph it. It is pretty cool to watch the paint dry and become matte! This happened most quickly on my red squares where I poured off almost everything. The downside is that I almost didn't have enough sludge to go around on my squares. So for the green squares I didn't pour quite as much off and could see more green while it was going on but I don't know if that will stay true. I am seeing some brush strokes as the paint dries so the result is far from perfect but it's an interesting experiment for sure. Question (1) Did Reinhardt then go back and paint over squares later until he saw what he wanted? And Question (2) Corey, please comment on my radical revision of Fortune Cookie in Studio Discussion Week 8. It may be against the rules to ask for review of 2 versions of a painting but, if so, it is not one that is widely understood. Thanks!
Corey d'Augustine 13 days ago Hi Lorinda, yes, Reinhardt often layered his paints in the Black Paintings until he got the perfect surface he was looking for. This is easier said than done though, since the underlayers are so fragile that they can often cause more problems as they're being overpainted. I've seen cross-section samples of these paintings where he "nailed it" in as few as 2 layers, and I've seen others that have as many as 10, so there's quite a discrepancy. Because each layer is so incredibly thin though, the difference is not visible to the eye. Yep, I'm doing my best to give a critique for each student each quite, which is quite a task with a class as active and interesting as this one! If I can catch up with time to spare, I'll be happy to tackle a second round...
Lorinda Knight 12 days ago Photo attached today The photograph is an exercise in futility but here it is. In real life I can see a difference between the blue middle section across and the green squares above
7 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
and below but there is also a value difference among the 3 blacks when there probably shouldn't be one at all. And there isn't any red in the corner squares even in real life. But of course the brush strokes read well even though we don't want them to be there. And then there is another pooch-out (technical term) at the upper right corner. But this was an interesting exercise. Now on to Stella! Attachments:
Corey d'Augustine 12 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight If you hear someone giggling from somewhere about your frustration with photography.....that's Reinhardt! I agree with your self-critique, the values are a bit too diverse and the chroma could be a bit higher, but it looks like you've learned a lot here. Some paintings are meant for the gallery and others for the studio, but both types can open up avenues forward...
Merren Booth 11 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight I feel your pain(t)! I think AR is more interesting to talk about than to try and emulate in paint.
Candi Imming 17 days ago AR1--Reds Cadmium Red Dark, Medium, and Light. Want to try an earlier AR style, too. Not too interested in the blacks, but did try to minimize my artist hand presence. I still see brushstrokes, so not successful in that respect. Not too easy to paint straight.
8 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago nice hot palette! Did you try withdrawing some of the medium from your paint? That way, you paint very thinly, almost pure pigment in solvent, so it's easier to minimize traces of your hand. Also, another pass or two can help straighten out those edges, first from one side, and then from the other, and then from the first side again if necessary, etc. Interestingly, Reinhardt never used a full solid band in the vertical direction as you have, but instead always kept it horizontal for a quieter appearance. Do you prefer this orientation? Why do you think that might be?
Candi Imming 16 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks, Corey. I did use Mark Rothko style painting (thin layers) to reduce the hand of the artist, so to speak. I really have tried the straightening, but finally resorted to masking tape, which did help. I can turn it to change the orientation of the solid band....I guess I never really thought about it. I was more focused on taking a picture than how the band went. Nice tip--thanks for bringing it to my attention. I will probably keep working it a bit more. Here it is in daylight.
Michael Clifford 15 days ago in reply to Candi Imming
9 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
I like this! Could you spin it 180 so the darker squares are on the bottom for us.
Merren Booth 11 days ago I like this and I like your change of palette. After all, didn't AR say your painting is your painting when you do my painting?
Michael Clifford 15 days ago I'm afraid I spent too much time on my Rothko to do any Guston (Corey, if could you have a look back to the Rothko week, I would appreciate your advice on restoring the damaged canvas, thanks), but seeing as I had mixed the paints for this I wanted to give it a go. I'm afraid I couldn't find any $85 brushes so opted for the new found skill of masking. The first paint surface is super matt.
I presume the second
10 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
picture is glossier because I put my brush deeper into the paint pot and there must ave been more medium left in there.
The third image is what poured off with the solvent- look like tea leaves.
I have poured the solvent back into the jar. Tomorrow will paint black/red, or black/green. The paint I used today is black/blue although you wouldn't think it. I'm hoping when all is done I can lie back in the dark and see the colours come through. Here's hoping!
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago Better photos if I use night landscape setting. 1. April in Fukishima The colours are much more accurate - should it be retitled Walmart Wrapping Paper though? YIKES> 2. Iguana Sunrise I had a rebellion against gloomy all black ! Did watered down wash-like blue. Thick painted black panels with bottom panel has blobs of egg yolk -my new favourite painting material. Very bright yellow sunshine background for a happy type painting! Attachments:
11 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 17 days ago Hi Lulu, while I don't think it's your best effort, I think it's pretty far from "Wal Mart crap!" I think the problem lies in the combination of graphic gestural marks and your geometric treatment of the ground. The only relation between the figure and ground appears to be color, which reduces the overall effect to decoration. In fact, this arbitrary nature might be dangerously close to what Rosenberg called "apocalyptic wallpaper"! I think the idea of combining gesture and geometry is a powerful one, but closer (or at least more specific) relations are necessary to keep the painting in focus. Perhaps relating them more in terms of location, shape, or surface could move the painting in a more interesting direction....know what I mean?
Lulu Godwin 17 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Ahh indeed Oh Wise One. WalMart crap wallpaper indeed, not WalMart crap wrapping paper. I rather like the terms Apocalyptic Wallpaper, maybe Fukikshima could be branded as Tsunami Wallpaper - there, I invented a new category of crap art. People will quote me for generations to come. Gesture and geometry do not make happy bedfellows so a good thing the tsunami is coming soon to sweep it away..No comprehendo your Art Speak that followed, but basically you are saying trash the damm thing. How bout Iguana Sunrise - any hope there? That one looks happy in real life and works better I think. But it is certainly not a brillant effort. oh well. Corey do I need to bring stuff for the course at the GUGG - is there a supply list you can send me now ([email protected]) so I can bring what is needed in my suitcase? Thanks and looking forward to mucking about at the GUGG.
Corey d'Augustine 16 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Hi Lulu, no need to bring anything to the Gugg. Yes I think your 2nd painting is an interesting idea, but I wonder if it would be stronger without the yellow border which seems to detract from the drama of your other colors on black.
Lulu Godwin 15 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Looking forward to GUGGing with you, Oh Wise One. Looks like a totally fun course. Re your comments on the 2nd painting.....you just want the painting to be .....Basic Black Baby!! Okay Okay Okay - Black it is, and Black it shall be. When I get back from NYC I will retrace my steps and do proper further paintings. All black, and all called Black Dick - 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on, painted on huge canvasses and totally black. People in years to come will stand in awe when they are hung at MOMA and gaze at them like they do with Rothkos trying to find the inherent sexuality in the totally BLACK paintings!! aaaah yes indeed that is the plan.
12 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
13 of 13 5/11/12 7:40 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 9: Art and the Marketplace Kathy Gold 11 days ago Lisa - Well said. I just don't think you can truly separate art and business. I think Ad's philosophy was more an ideal than anythig that is real. Hopefully an artist can create work that is not driven by desire for commercial success--but come on, I'm not sure it is even possible to create art in a vacuum, to not be aware of a potential viewer, and the possibility of a potential viewer assigning monetary value to a work of art and having a desire to acquire said work of art. Art is a conversation. Sometimes money is part of the conversation. And I don't think commercial success can devalue a work of art. It might influence future works that artist produces in a negative way, but not necessarily.
Penelope Rothfield 10 days ago Kathy--I am not sure what you mean when you write that "Sometimes money is part of the conversation". It would be great if you would talk more about that. Also you wrote "Art is a conversation." And that is a statement that is heard frequently in the art world. But i always wonder when i hear that, I wonder if art is a conversation, what are artists today talking about? what is the conversation about? I'm not being sarcastic--i really want to know! Kathy Gold 9 days ago in reply to Penelope Rothfield Penelope--I do think art is a conversation. In the larger context of art history, I think one artist does something, another artist sees that, is influenced by it, takes it in a personal direction, and so on. To me, that's a conversation.
I've thought about it as it relates to me personally, and I realize I do want to "say" something which is "heard" by somebody else--even if it's just one person. I don't want to paint just for myself. I don't want a pile of paintings nobody else ever sees or relates to (which is basically what I do have). I think there is a visual language, and I'd like to communicate. As to money, I guess all I meant is that money is a part of everybody's life. Unless you are very wealthy and money is of absolutely no concern (which is not the case for me) and/or you make a vow that you will never take a penny for any art you produce, then I think money is there at least as a presence in the conversation. I related very strongly to Ad Reinhardt and agree very much with his philosophy, but I am just questioning how possible it is in reality to be totally free from commercial concerns. I don't think I am explaining myself very well here, but hopefully this makes some sense.
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold Thanks, Kathy. I agree, money is a part of everybody's life, and I admit I tend to look at the world through fairy tale-d glasses. I appreciate your response. I also have a pile of paintings very few people ever see or relate to! Most of the artists i know make art 50% of the time and work on "art business" the other 50% of the time--in other words--work everyday--in the morning, write proposals and do other sorts of art business, and then in the afternoon they make art, for example.
1 of 5 5/11/12 8:33 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
i guess i have been avoiding the "art business" side of my practice because --well--mostly it just bores me! But i see that i do have to face it if i ever want to make a living as an artist.... marc brickman 10 days ago once an artist decides or is accepted by the powers that govern commerce the rules change. commerce is a living breathing organism no different than any other animal on this planet. you have to be determined to be OK and able to survive under the rules of money. it is not freedom as one would believe. in most cases, the price you pay emotionally as an artist is high. as are the material rewards and the knowledge that your art has reached a wide audience. as my mother always said "everything in moderation"
Candi Imming 19 days ago I like Ad's view over Andy's, but I have several friends who are artists and they find it a challenge to be commercially successful. I do not think many ordinary people seem to value and spend money to support local artists, which I have always enjoyed doing. I feel so enriched by the many works I have in my home. I fail to understand why others do not do the same. I have always wanted to be an artist, but I do not like the idea of trying to get someone interested enough in what I do to buy it. I find I like giving it away much better, with the only condition that the person likes it. I also expect them to thoughtfully handle the work, as I would rather have it back if they no longer want it. Thank goodness I have a good job, so I can do what I want in this area. I did get a surprise last month when a friend sent me a nice check for a painting I did for her. I do not begrudge anyone who does know how to successfully market and sell their work. I benefit from their efforts. Personally I have a hard time letting go of some of my creations, and I love hanging them up at work or home. I think it depends upon what you want to accomplish with your artistic efforts. I want to create, and if someone else also likes it, that's enough for me. I do sometimes wonder what will happen to my growing painting pile, especially after this class, and where they could all end up.
Penelope Rothfield 10 days ago i know what you mean, Candi, by the "growing painting pile"! HaHa! Lorinda Knight 16 days ago How could an artwork lose some other value when it gains monetary value? When a visitor looks at a Rothko in a museum, it does not matter what the museum paid for it. The question of compromising the work to gain an audience is a valid one, however, and I agree that artists should not do that. It seems to me that the general viewing public is left out of the discussion and that is too bad. Commercial galleries allow a much broader range of work to be seen than if the options were confined to museums and artist studios. Good galleries take a chance and support more radical work of artists even if the gallery has no idea if the work will sell. I took that approach with my gallery in a small city and I was surprised how well it worked out. The gallery also became a way of building community and providing access to a broad range of people. A gallery may be part of "everything else" but you can find art there and that is not a bad thing.
Penelope Rothfield 10 days ago
2 of 5 5/11/12 8:33 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
The ability of galleries to allow a much broader range of work to be seen and that it also has the potential to build community is an interesting one. And I agree with you that there is that potential. But i think that many commercial gallery owners believe that ultimately they have there own bills to pay and use that as their reason for choosing art for the gallery that sells and for pressuring artists to stay with the kind of work that sells rather than allowing an artist to change and grow. So i agree with you about the potential of galleries i just wish more galleries would be as supportive of artists/art as you are. Penelope Rothfield 10 days ago art and the marketplace.... Something I like to read at when thinking about the subject of art and the marketplace is Lars Bang Larson's article for E-Flux Journal called "Giraffe and Anti-Giraffe: Charles Fourier's Artistic Thinking". (i have attached the article in case anyone would like to read it.....) I am completely and whole-heartedly on Ad's Team. (another Hero like Maria Nordman and Tacita Dean whose photo is definitely going to be added to my studio wall shrine of art heroes) Everything Reinhardt says turns me on ---and i like that! And he's right! Art and business shouldn't mix. Art is "the name of a great theme, of mankind's greatest idea, it's single lasting sentence--the name of a hope and of something yet to come,; the unfulfilled and/or that which eternally lies ahead....while simultaneously being a thing of the past...an older order of being (or becoming)" ( from Dieter Roelstraete, What is Contemporary Art? Sternberg Press) something which is outside culture (the marketplace). When art tries to become culture (The NOW), it is no longer art. It may be true that in some ( maybe all...) ways Reinhardt was never able to reconcile his ideas and his art work; he, like each one of us, is never completely outside of culture. But we can do what we can, like he did, to fight back; that resistance is the ethics of art, I believe. I think i have a lot to learn from him and it will probably take me a long time, but...... I guess i am writing this from a bias against "the way things are"- It's just absolutely a choice I've made ----Don't just give up because so far the forces of idiocy have taken over the world--put your Bob Marley record on your record player and "Get Up! Stand Up! Don't Give Up the Fight!!"
Attachments: Giraffe and Anti-Giraffe Charles Fourier’s Artistic Thinking e-flux.html
Lisa Ormerod 12 days ago Its such a difficult question because even in Reinhardt's time art was already a business. His purist ideology is hard to achieve. How did he reconcile the fact that he was part of the art business that he eschewed? Or is he only focused on the act of creation and the end result is the creation and not display and sale? Not having read his writings I am not certain what precisely he is talking about. It also makes me wonder how he thought Stuart Davis was able to discard all that paint without the sale of work? I also wonder if Reinhardt saw art as cyclical and his work as an end point for abstraction, then how does he define cyclical while defining an end point? It would seem that the circle/cycle has many points that could be "the beginning". Would Andy have been so successful without his commercial success first or his ability to be influential in the society he moved within? I think the argument becomes can an artist be purely one without the other and if so, without assigning value of some kind?
3 of 5 5/11/12 8:33 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lulu Godwin 11 days ago well said Lisa!
Lisa Ormerod 11 days ago Thanks! These type of statements always bring up more questions for me. Merren Booth 15 days ago Ad and Andy are the extremists of this question, so I would go with neither. I am more practical. I appreciate and value my freedom as an artist, but I would love to be able to support myself with it. Right now my career funds my art and provides me with some free time to practice it, There has always been a market for art....even children will solicit works of art from classmates they think are talented. Maybe they don't pay the artist with money, but they certainly offer support in other ways. Ethically speaking, an artist has to be up front about the intent of the work. As long as there is no deception (and Andy Warhol and Jeff Koons are certainly honest!), then no one should have a problem with "commercial" vs "fine" arts. Commercialzing art once it is out of the artist's hands is an interesting tangent. I immediately think of all the Impressionist stuff splashed onto tote bags and umbrellas. When one stops to think about it, it does seem distasteful, but I admit to owning a few items in this category. Would I buy such stuff now that I am older and wiser? Probably not. Modern culture is all about possession. Hard to imagine people changing their world view.
marc brickman 15 days ago once an artist decides or is accepted by the powers that govern commerce the rules change. commerce is a living breathing organism no different than any other animal on this planet. you have to be determined to be OK and able to survive under the rules of money. it is not freedom as one would believe. in most cases, the price you pay emotionally as an artist is high. as are the material rewards and the knowledge that your art has reached a wide audience. as my mother always said "everything in moderation" Lulu Godwin 20 days ago The artist's brain is not conducive generally to business - the old adage of left brain, right brain is true. Dudes like Jeff Koones are a minority - leverage the shit out of (minimal) talent by employing an army of worker bees, like back in the Renaissance, to crank out your "art" work. Where Koones excels is as a business man and as a marketeer, and presto look what his work sells for. He is a former stockbroker and understands well the machinations of commerce. I see nothing wrong with a combo approach: paint what you want to paint just for you and whomever can appreciate it, and then have other work created for the commercial market to pay the bills. There is a shortage of Popes and Borgias these days to act as wealthy patrons. What I find sad is the huge deficit in Art Colleges and Universities to teach students and artists how to market their art. and how to develop a business plan.
4 of 5 5/11/12 8:33 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Starving artists abound, and not because they lack talent in their metier, but rather because they have no clue about business and marketing. .. My belief is that if you undertake to make anything your profession, you need to maximize the possibility you can make a livelihood at it. That or marry money! Or find a modern day patron to sponsor your art work. As in every profession, there is a lot of competition. As well, every industry has its own "rules" and "players" and nuances. Or you can paint part time and build up your practice. Being a commercial sell out to me is different from applying a business like approach to one's art. Cranking out commercial garbage like Thomas Kincaide's art machine (he who is recently deceased) and calling it art I find offensive. But then again, he has sold more painting than any other US artist EVER. Does that make his art great? Or just indicate that he is a commercial success? Is the purchaser the ultimate arbitrator of what is good art i.e. the more you sell, the better an artist you can be considered? and conversely, the less you sell, the worse an artist you are? Or does that indicate you are not selling because you have no clue how to market? Many artists literally find it impossible to both - paint (create) and market . That could also be due to other reasons, Taking our dear friend Van Gogh, maybe they are battling demons. I believe depression and severe anxiety is more prevalant, together with other mental illness, in artists than in most other professions. Some of us pay a very high price for creativity.
5 of 5 5/11/12 8:33 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 10: Classroom Discussion John Valentich 6 days ago Hoffman Help Please Corey: You ended the course still talking about Hans Hofmann and push-pull. My understanding of Hofmann is still way too simplistic. Can you (or anybody) suggest some good sources for getting a working appreciation of his color concepts. (Don't tell me to read his book. I tried that and don't have a clue as to what he's talking about.) Corey d'Augustine 6 days ago hm, I understand what you mean about Hofmann's writing, but don't give up! I suggest taking a long look at his paintings. There hasn't been a retrospective in quite some time, but there is a nice catalog edited by James Yohe with an essay by Sam Hunter which is definitely worth your time. Hopefully you can find it at a local library since I imagine it's out of print by now.... HH was instrumental toward the thinking of so many NY School painters and critics about color....
John Valentich 3 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks! My library has the book which is good because Amazon wants $200 for it! Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago thoughts after watching Frank Stella art history video I found particularly interesting your discussion, Corey, of the relationship between theory and practice in the works of Reinhardt and Stella and the consequences of making theory driven art. I have a lot of conflicts about theory driven art and your lecture helped me to clarify my thinking. I also found interesting the notion of (in the case of Reinhardt) the exhibition as 1 work and perhaps one's life's work being viewed as 1 work (even though made up of many paintings)--and the conceptual in painting which i have always found hard to grasp---i think i understand that way of working much more now. .... I thought it was very funny when i heard you say that you found some of his work "design-y" (at least i think you said "design--y" because just moments before you said it i was thinking of the exact same word in response to some of his work! design-y. I really do like his black paintings quite a bit. I like especially the opposition created between his notion of "what you see is what you see", and the use of enamel paint contrasting with his line-making (hand-made) and the little imperfections that consequently arise and the visible brushstrokes. i find those imperfections very poignant, really, in the way that they reveal a subjectivity that is perhaps denied by the artist. They make me think of the drawings/paintings Mondrian made; he denied them in a sense yet they are so beautiful and personal. I know you may think "well , there is no relationship between Stella's hand drawn lines and Mondrian's flowers" and you may be right! but they do make me think of each other. Attachments:
1 of 2 5/11/12 8:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 9 days ago Hand-made demonstrations of the Absolute - an equally dubious and paradoxically fascinating approach! I agree with you completely Penelope, and although I think your comparison is better made to Mondrian's de Stijl works (which are actually full of little zigzags of active brushwork), I think that there's a reason that these painters continued to use their hand rather than spraying paint or directly manipulating light: for all their extremism and rejection, these paintings proudly remain a part of the rich history of painting!
Lulu Godwin about 1 month ago MORE COREY EL MAGNIFICO , MORE MOMALICIOUS ONLINE PAINTING COURSES, MORE COREY, MORE MOMALICIOUS ONLINE PAINTING COURSES, MORE COREY, MORE MOMALICIOUS ONLINE PAINTING COURSES MORE MORE MOMALICIOUSNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOMA MORE MOMA MORE MOMA MORE MOMA MORE MORE MOMAMOMAMOMAMOMAMOMA My withdrawal symptoms will be very severe at the conclusion of this course. I may not survive unless I have official notification of MORE MOMALICIOUS (name is now copyrighted by moi meme) PAINTING ONLINE WITH COREY EL MAGNIFICO. Anyone who'd like to keep in touch please check out Facebook - Momalicious 2012 - and post your work and news.
2 of 2 5/11/12 8:50 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 10 Studio Discussion John Valentich 5 days ago I knew there was a purpose for this thing... Now back to my Reinhardt jars...
Frank...Exit through the Gift Shop
Corey d'Augustine 4 days ago haha, looks like the graphic design department at MoMA might be calling you soon!!
John Valentich 4 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Doubtful, and I'm not that good. Besides, you can find this IN the MoMA gift shop tomorrow morning. Actually, fooling with this image in Picasa generated a half dozen nifty new images that may one day become paintings! Not a total waste of time... Lulu Godwin 3 days ago sold! i spent a very interesting and exhausting day yesterday at frieze nyc art fair. doing research - hardly anything figurative. lots of stripes in varioous forms, geometrics, and black black black. this would sell like a hot cake there. wanted to see how the gallleries marketed their artists - the answer: they dont.You have to almost beg to get a BIZ card and then it's given to you with almost suspicion. finally i asked what the deal was - to appear exclusive or what as they defy all principle s of marketing. one galleryh space even has no desk no signage no nothng except a
1 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
gallerette hottie sitting on a stool typing on a ta blet. hmmm well the gallery guy replied to m y enquiry as to this weird non marketing adverse marketing technique - YOU HAVE TO REALLY WANT TO BUY IT. to which I replied no wonder artists are all starving. A real eye opener and very strange way of selling. pulse art fair was more traditional in its marketing and did not have its head up its proverbial arse although the range of work went from poor to excellent whereas at frieze only one gallery where i did a double take the work was so bad. if you want to know more email me folks xxx hugs to all and we could rock pulse and frieze with our work no problemo
John Valentich 2 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Did you take any pictures of pieces you especially liked? This statement appeared in a NYT review of the Frieze:
The gentrification of contemporary art itself is an old story in two parts. Part one is about a 20th-century model of an avant-garde, with artists as feisty cultural delinquents and idiot savants who set themselves outside the mainstream to make baffling things and think deep thoughts.
In part two, set in the 21st century, the model has changed. Now artists, whether they know it or not, are worker bees in an art-industrial hive. Directed by dealers and collectors who dress like stylish accountants, they turn out predictable product for high-profile, high-volume fairs like Frieze. Pasted from
Kathia G 2 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin Lulu - You´re finally here! If you´re planning the Met let me know when you are around here because I´m very close and can bring guests. See you on Saturday for our class at Guggenheim!
Kathia G 5 days ago Feeling shy to post my paintings now after visiting the L&M Arts Gallery with lots of Stellas and checking the previous posts! LOL Oh well, I tried my lines with enamel and couldn´t make them as straight as I wanted them...even though I used a ruler to limit the edge. So I came back with second colors for both. Attachments:
2 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod 5 days ago i think you did a good job. It is hard to draw, paint a straight line! I particularly like the silver and red one, i like the thin line within the red line. Corey d'Augustine 4 days ago don't worry Kathia, even Stella himself eventually started using masking tape in the late 60s. Yes that's an excellent show at L&M of exactly the early black paintings that you've been hearing about in the lecture. I think your first painting is the strongest one, and it would be even stronger if you could have "cut out" the upper left and lower right corners to make a "shaped" canvas. of course that sounds simple but it's extremely hard to do, even for someone with some carpentry skills, but I like the idea. I also think that the aluminum would look a little more alive on an unprimed ground rather than your white canvas, which takes away a bit of the stark quality of your aluminum paint applications. The copper color has a nicer effect, but here the lines become a bit too wobbly and visually loud to allow the eye to read the painting all at once as an object, since instead it gets busy taking in the differences in band width, linear discrepancies, and so on. But I think you've already realized this yourself, so practice makes perfect. Well, that or masking tape!
Merren Booth 4 days ago I think metallics is a fun variation on Stella!
John Valentich 2 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine About "shaped" canvases...Is a simple solution to just cut a sheet of wood to the shape you want and paste on a piece of canvas with acrylic medium? Or even easier, start with a piece of canvas board or Ampersand gessobord and cut it to the desired shape with a jig saw. So Kathia could take her canvas off the stretcher bars, glew it to a board and cut it to the trapezoid shape Corey suggests??? Kathia G 2 days ago in reply to John Valentich Thanks! I´ll certainly try it. BTW, thanks for the information about the Stella´s exhibit. It was out of this world!
Merren Booth 2 days ago Finally here is my final painting. I deliberately started the lines slightly off parallel to the canvas to create tension. I also mixed an insufficient amount of the grey so I would have to make more and it would not be the same grey twice...more tension. I also left one stripe in the middle deliberately uneven...more more tension! Like Ryman or Reinhardt, very difficult style. So many little things to control, since there is no subject to distract from the execution. Don't know that I ever figured out how to load the brush. Attachments:
3 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Kathy Gold 2 days ago I like it, Merren. Thanks for the notes about your thinking as you made it. I think you pulled it off. Simple yet elegant.
Merren Booth 2 days ago in reply to Kathy Gold Thank you, Kathy! I'm glad we ended the course with Stella rather than Reinhardt. ;-)
Candi Imming 8 days ago "Princess of Whitinsville" . Used enamels from Pollock week. A bit wavy here and there. Some line intermixing. Perhaps, an early looking Stella? Need more practice on the painting between the lines. Dark color did require two coats.
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago Nice! Stella meets Barnett Newman meets Agnes Martin meets Ellsworth Kelly! Or in other words, indeed an early Stella type painting! Like we do in this class, Stella painted his way through the styles of his NY School precedents as a means to arrive at his own signature works, all the while not being afraid to wear his influences on his sleeve. Your hot/cold palette has a nice tension and your yellow really pops off of the areas of white ground that you've left in reserve. The dark color (Phthalo blue?) seems to be quite brushy and transparent, and I wonder if a third coat would allow it an opacity that would heighten the contrast with the yellow even more....
Merren Booth 4 days ago I like this. I like the waviness of the lines, makes human not mechanical.
4 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Lisa Ormerod 5 days ago So here is my version of Stella. It was, again, an interesting exercise. I didn't want to do horizontal lines and was intrigued by the "V" shape and painting in different directions to accentuate the lines. I am not the most geometrically or mathmatically inclined person so I had to admire the way Frank laid out his paintings. I did come up with a solution to solve the problem of making even "V" shapes, but it took a little while, and its not perfect but that is why I included the image. I also created a ground in a contrasting color to the copper paint I bought, just to add another level of complexity and interest. The end result is as you see. Making this style of painting is a real exercise in construction and planning. If we had more time, and I had some tools, I would have liked to learn how to stretch a non-rectangular shaped canvas. That would have been fun! This class was great! I was a little sad to finish this.
Attachments:
Kathia G 5 days ago wow! Impressive... and even more now that I´m trying to do mine =)
Candi Imming 5 days ago You did a great job on this. Well done, Lisa.
Lisa Ormerod 5 days ago Thanks! marc brickman 5 days ago veri interesting..
love the colours.
John Valentich 5 days ago Very nice design, choice of colors and execution. I realized to do Stella right something like this was called for; that's why I chose an alternative art form (:-).
It's not 100% clear to me how you got from the canvas with the green base and spaces seemingly ready to get copper paint to the painting with the reverse color scheme. Are those "lines" on the green canvas actually strips of tape over a solid green base?
5 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 5 days ago awesome painting! I think Stella would like this one too. Not sure if you already realize this, but you've essentially reversed the logic of his "shaped" paintings, which allowed the composition to dictate the shape of the outer margins of the support. Instead, you've used these margins to crop a composition that is apparently much larger. This is a game played by Mondrian, van Doesberg, and more recently, Agnes Martin. SO...your painting has a feeling of moving quickly and laterally off of the canvas, all the while maintaining some very conventional, static boundaries. A bizarre and interesting conflation of spatial ideas, which is matched by the truly weird nature of your palette. I'm struggling to ever remember seeing copper and an artificial green color together like that....can you? Excellent painting! one to hang on the wall and live with for a while for sure....
Lisa Ormerod 4 days ago Thanks! I was thinking of this more of a Stella detail, inferring the shape without actually creating it! I guess I succeeded! I was thinking of trying to get some kind of vibration to happen between the colors. I was always intrigued by this building in Chicago by Helmut Jahn that was copper faced and allowed to oxidize so the color is always changing, so that was the inspiration for the colors. John, the white lines are white chalk lines since pencil didn't show up so well. i just painted between the lines as best I could with that copper paint. The white dissolved with water when the color was dry. Although, I do like the green and white together. Corey d'Augustine 4 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod hm, I don't know that building but it sounds like Core-Ten steel, the self patinating alloy that Richard Serra has also put to great use. Gotta get to Chicago one of these days....
John Valentich 4 days ago in reply to Lisa Ormerod Very clever and awesome band painting. I don't know which impresses me more. Thanks for the great art lesson!!! Merren Booth 4 days ago These are a neat way to indicate a shape without having to make a shaped canvas!
Kathy Gold 4 days ago Here are my Stella efforts.
Corey - this has been an amazing course. Thanks for much for sharing your wisdom and insight. Attachments:
Merren Booth 4 days ago
6 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
In thumbnail the shapes in Painting 2 looked collaged! It was only when I opened the full size I realized it was trompe l'oeil. I like this riff on Stella's shapes the best.
Candi Imming 7 days ago Corey, I had some free time so did this portrait of you and what you taught with an extra added touch. Sorry I had to give you deKooning teeth, but it seemed such a good fit. Hope you find this fun and enjoy it. I really liked this class.
The MOMAlicious Prof--2012
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago hahaha!! that's a keeper for sure, I'm just afraid to forward it to my colleagues at MoMA because I might never live it down. Like those dK teeth! Candi you made my day, thanks for the laugh (and a shudder)!
Candi Imming 7 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Remember my execution does not mean that is how you look. I took a picture of a video to try and do this. I am not sure the eye shape is exactly correct, but this is what it is. Glad you took in the spirit it was intended. If you want to pull a better image here is the link to Flickr. I have it improved it a bit. http://www.flickr.com/photos/swimcsi
7 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
/6994068242/in/photostream
Lisa Ormerod 6 days ago That is hilarious and wonderful! I love how you included the elements from all the classes! Lulu Godwin 6 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Surely there is an acquistion committee at MOMA who will purchase this briliant portrait of a brilliant maestro and hang it in a place of prominence at MOMA?
Corey d'Augustine 6 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin haha I don't think so, but one of my colleagues did threaten to make t-shirts! don't worry Candi, I'll make sure you receive royalties as I'm sure they'll sell like hotcakes....
Candi Imming 6 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine I had been thinking t-shirts or even coffee mugs. I won't worry unless I see it show up in MoMA's online store.
marc brickman 5 days ago youy are a great painter, candi... you seem to be able to do anything..
fantastic!!! Kathia G 5 days ago That was really good! =) This class has lots of talented people!!!
Candi Imming 5 days ago in reply to marc brickman Lulu, Lisa, Marc, and Kathia... very kind words from all of you...thanks. It was a great deal of fun and I was laughing when I added the deKooning teeth (the only thing deKooning I can do, or so it seems). All of the participants made this a great fun experience for me, which is why I gave this a try.
Kathia G 5 days ago in reply to Candi Imming Candi - They said the art market in NYC has steroids right now: Almost $120 million for the Scream; "Too Big to Fail" from Barbara Kruger $200,000... If you want to launch the t-shirts and the coffee mugs, this is the time =)
John Valentich 5 days ago Yes, the artist "signatures" are a very clever touch.
I think you should send this image to Colleen so it gets proper distribution on the
8 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
MoMA network. Lorinda Knight 8 days ago Template is a 3D conceptual riff on Stella. It's how I interpret some of his ideas and it hints at what is to come in the 1960's and 1970's. The piece is the same viewed from in front of and behind the flat transparent plane (except for the lettering which could be eliminated). Three views are attached. Attachments:
Lulu Godwin 8 days ago Brilliant!
Lisa Ormerod 7 days ago Nice! That is a keeper! :) Candi Imming 7 days ago Cool idea, Lorinda, as I like it very much.
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago wacky! it took me a minute to figure this out, but I'm still not entirely sure what I'm looking at, which is a good thing because the piece is as interesting as it is deceptive. What are the colors extending from the side of the plexi? Are they painted? or some kind of color chips? This reminds me of what of Stella's contemporaries was exploring in the years after the black paintings: Sol LeWitt! LeWitt's early works are funny, handmade objects with visual puns like you're working with. Check him out! I couldn't find any images of his early work on the internet, but if you find a catalog of his at some point, I guarantee that it's worth your time and then some. For my money (which isn't much!), he chose a much more interesting conceptual direction than did Stella.
Lorinda Knight 6 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine The colors are flat plastic adhesive filing tabs made by 3M. Funny you should mention Sol LeWitt because we have 8 small color etchings by him in our collection (Crown Point Press, 1999). They are gems with a more hand drawn quality than many of his other works. Lulu Godwin 18 days ago Whoops forgot to attach photos! Attachments:
9 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Corey d'Augustine 9 days ago nice, these are both hilarious!! something tells me that Stella would find it somewhat less funny, but count me in! Your first painting takes Stella's very subtle traces of the hand and explodes them back into the arena of gestural mark making. Sean Scully did something related with Stella's precedent in the 1980s by working in similar colors and compositions but now with very thick impasto and sometimes freely running drips. Your painting isn't nearly as sculptural as what I'm describing, but I like that you've added the "mess" back into the mix - something that Stella initially used in grad school but then immediately purged in 1959 with his signature black paintings. I don't think that your colors fight too much at all. Since the conflict is equally apparent in all areas of the canvas, it doesn't act as a distraction, but rather as a formative aspect of the entire painting. Your second painting has a weird quasi-religious relic quality to it, as if it's a token of a long lost saint of some forgotten tradition!
Lulu Godwin 9 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Thanks for your good nature and hanging in there Corey! Hit the Spot - you have hit the mark again and exactly what I guess I was rebelling against and what I tried to achieve. Maestro - please accept my apologies for the terrible quality of the photo but yet you managed to give superb feedback nevertheless. Yes Black Dick is indeed quasi-religious . You are so brilliant and right on with your synopsis - it is a solemn soliloquy and Black Dick is resting in his splendour for all eternity and worshipful reference. see you soon and THANKS FOR EVERYTHING COREY and to other learners thanks for everything. Have to tune out now and go pack. xxx hugs to all
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine your right-the 2cd painting does look like a relic housed in reliquary! or some kind of totem. I like both of the paintings.... Lulu Godwin 18 days ago What I got from the art video was that I can hand draw the lines and not use tape so they can be wiggly. YES wiggly is good! And to put a focal blob in the center. As I was in rush I cut the video off there and ran with it. Will have to watch the rest later. I felt like THICK paint as all this watered down or black stuff has left me weak at the knees. I was never a fan of Op Art (which is what a lot of Stella's reminds me of). Coincidentally the Vancouver Art Gallery currently has an exhibition of 1960's which reconfirmed my distaste of Op Art.. 1. Hit the Spot (Good God He!) probably a bloody mess but I had fun doing it. It's wiggly but maybe too much so -does it all fight with each other? 2. Black Dick Sililoquy I scavenged a bunch of cupboard doors and this one is mahogany. I decided to use the inherent lines as my parameters for change of colours, but they need to be punched up more? The outer edges are chopped off but are a dark green/olive. Black Dick wanted to be the focal point ,so
10 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
rather than putting a blob of colour in the centre, there he is looking in person rather majestic and magnificent.
11 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 10: Means to an End? Candi Imming 8 days ago Stella's black paintings remind me of doodles that I do by making a shape and then make repeating lines around it. A soothing exercise. The only other artist I think of when I see this work: Robert Ryman. These lines remind me of his lines in white, but his lines could have happened later. (I need a time line to see chronological progression. ) This also appears as a very calculated effort to create a new approach in order to become art historically significant. An extremely smart move to think this way, if the new change gets accepted and appreciated. I am not sure how many artists do possess this agenda. The New York school of artists seems very focused on technical mastery of medium application combined with color theory to create art objects for their own sake...what would you call that... Abstract Objectifists? They made something that depicted nothing else. You have to enjoy it for itself...not what it represents. Not always an easy sell, or easy to have other humans value it. I believe many people still think the best artists remain those who can do the most accurate rendering of forms/beings as they appear to the human eye. Probably because so few people think they themselves can do this task. Stella's paintings in 1959 probably would have had a rather small group of admirers. People who got the intent and could appreciate it. It does make you wonder about today and how many out of the world population appreciate them even now. I do think any change opens a door to extend the conversation and see what could come next. It depends upon who becomes interested in taking up the challenge to continue the pursuit and keep pushing.
Lisa Ormerod 8 days ago I have two thoughts on this particular topic. The first is that Stella created the black paintings from a close study and understanding of what the AbEx's were exploring, methodology of painting, rules set up to create works and keeping the paint as paint. Reducing the picture plane to its essence with the use of flat imagery and paint without marks. The paintings literally illustrate the foundational qualities of what makes up a painting, paint, canvas, and line. I do believe that his paintings were an endpoint for him, although it is impressive how much he explored that end point and how long. But at some point the methods and practice are an end in themselves until a new factor is introduced. What was opened by Stella, Reinhardt, Ryman and all of the people we studied in this class was to be able to look at the act, practice and method of creation and make that the starting point of art. Artist's are still exploring those in addition to including new technologies and ways to look at work. The second thought is about the term abstract expressionism. I never gave the term much thought and after this exploration do not believe that it is accurate. When I think of the expressionists, Kirchner, Schiele, Beckman, Koliwitz etc. I think of emotion displayed on the canvas. Something very visceral and full of feeling. The Abstract Expressionists in this course are not void of emotion in the work but their practices are mixed in the physical display of paint and the conscious methodology of the practice. I don't feel like the name is enough to cover all the exploration that these artists put into their work. I think you touched on this in one of your early lectures calling this group the New York School.
1 of 1 5/11/12 7:29 AM
Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Week 10: Painting in the Information Age Kathia G 9 days ago This course has helped my understanding of abstracts more, like what is beyond seeing a line on a painting, an all black or white painting or the whole movement overall. Trying to replicate a technique makes you own the piece. Corey made a great job not only taking us on a trip to each painter´s life and explaining the painters´technique, but also analyzing our own paintings and finding the next step to maximize their potential. Having a curator from the Moma analyzing our pieces...really? What a luxury! I would suggest to start the mixing of Reinhardt´s painting on the second week during the introduction to painting materials. I watched the studio video on Friday and then was my "oops... I can´t do it even during the weekend". Loved the class and I´m definitely signing for another one! I found that the experience students have and their willingness to share tips made the class very unique. Glad to have a couple extra weeks to be able to go back and read the comments.
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago i think you're right, Kathia, about mixing Reinhardt black paints earlier in the course. i would have liked more time to work on that paint..... Lisa Ormerod 8 days ago me too! I remixed a couple of times and am still waiting for the paint to dry! :) Kathia G about 13 hours ago Adding:
I took my daughter to swim practice today and I saw walking next to me an artist I adore.... not a painter so sorry for changing topic... I had to put it here any way... It was Ricky Martin!!!! I´m usually not too excited about celebrities but Ricky is an exception. It was not a the typical tourist area so I discretely asked him for a picture. =) Now switching to paintings... I must say that lately I´m feeling the same staring at abstracts... so I must conclude that if an abstract captures my attention the same way as Ricky did today, this course worked for me. =)
John Valentich 1 day ago A Few Thoughts
Colleen:
I think there are 2 crucial factors, neither technical, that are necessary ingredients for a successful online studio art course. First, a critical mass of enthusiastic, motivated students. Second, an instructor that's responsive, articulate, knowledgeable and sensitive to students' needs and interests. Both of these were near optimal in Corey's recently completed class. Together these factors produced a perfect storm of interactivity that I've never experienced in a live studio art class. I think you could tinker with some things (eg. Haiku, substitute Frankenthaler for Stella), but, as is, the course went way beyond my expectations.
1 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
One additional thought about video presentations. If you used static presentations I think the quality of the painting images would improve. Why don't you partner with Google Art Project? What they do is awesome. The views I get of paintings are, in some ways, better than if I was actually in the museum; if I obey the 18" rule.
In terms of new course development, there's the obvious of covering other NYS painters or focusing on just one painter in depth. I would also opt for going back historically from the NYS and look at those artists that shaped the NYS sensibility (eg. Hofmann (a must) Kandinsky, Malevich, Gorky, Mondrian, Miro, Picasso). An additional step backwards in time would be to cover the Stieglitz circle painters. Abstraction in photography may be another topic that's also accessible to non-painters.
One final touch might be an optional post-course get together in New York that includes MoMA and a walking tour of Abstract Expressionist New York.
Finally, thanks for YOUR help and responsiveness throughout the course!
> John Lulu Godwin 3 days ago dear moma i am signing up for MOMALICIOUS PAINTING online course 2 through 11 so hurry up and create them. thanks and see you as soon as you got that done!
Lisa Ormerod 2 days ago Yes! Count me in! Penelope Rothfield 4 days ago thoughts on MoMA class, part 2 It’s a little bit hard for me to write this; I’m so sad this course is coming to an end! In answer to the question about the course and on relying heavily on photos of art work vs. the “real thing”: “Did it work?” I would say that most definitely it worked! I did have somewhat of a problem working on the Guston exercise because I realized while in the middle of painting that actually I could not make out AT ALL Guston’s brush work from the print out I made of one of his works, but that could have been more of a problem with my printer/paper than with the quality of the reproduction online...
2 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
All and all I have been hugely impressed by the high quality of the course. I not only learned an unbelievable amount about art history/ artists’ lives/ art techniques through the art history video lectures, the museum visit video talks, and the online references, but I found your presentation of the material consistently compelling and, well, (not to sound banal!) actually fascinating, and I come away from the course with a renewed respect for and interest in the artists covered and their works. I always had the feeling while listen/watching the presentations that you, Corey, were always on the artist’s side in the sense that you both showed a genuine regard for each artist and his work and at the same time invited us to see things perhaps differently by offering your own take on things in a way that seemed to include us in a way i can’t really articulate, but it’s something I appreciate (it’s so rare!). Of course I haven’t even mentioned yet the impressive amount of knowledge you have regarding artist’s techniques and materials and how eye opening it is to approach the work from a conservator’s perspective. Why hasn’t all of my education been like this?!! It’s the missing piece! I have, in the past , taken courses on mat. and techn., but this is the first time i have been able to break through some kind of invisible, psychological wall to become pretty much absolutely fearless in trying out new materials and techniques. (invaluable.)
Oh! and the course looks pretty good too! ( i mean visually--online) it has all sorts of things going on--videos, lists, photos, and all sorts of good stuff to look at (which i love!). I only wish there had been a written version for printing out because i could never take notes fast enough! everything is so important!!!
I haven’t even mentioned yet what may be the most important part of the class and that is the feedback i received on my painting efforts from both you and the students in the class. I actually believe everything you said about my work (not always the case in critique...(ha!)..) and I appreciate greatly your honest criticism. You really have “just the right touch” when it comes to responding to students’ work which i think is a really hard thing to do very well. Also, the other students in the class were wicked lively and many were willing (thankfully) to offer both criticism and support (invaluable) and this seems to be the thing (in talking to other people about online education) that ultimately makes online learning work.
Did I leave anything out?....Thank you so much Corey and everyone! I can feel myself falling into a kind of grieving for the end of this course-and can’t wait till we meet again ----I miss y’all already!
penelope
(ps. I will probably send a copy of this to the appropriate MoMA office (if I can figure out which that is...) --i hope you don’t mind....
(pss. Everyone who can, go see the Stan Brakhage film showings at 3pm everyday at MoMA until May 14. What a thrill! (and a great painter too, no?....)
Candi Imming 4 days ago Well said, and I agree. Good thing we have two weeks to gradually wean us off. I went through Week 1 today and took a bunch of notes. I am actually feeling the need to paint,
3 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
so need to figure out what it will be.
John Valentich 3 days ago Penelope raises a great point I forgot to mention. Going into this course I had little regard for the work or artists such as Newman and Guston. Ryman I never heard of. Now I have a much greater appreciation of their painting and am motivated to to try their styles on my own. John Valentich 6 days ago Thanks! I just discovered this thread. I can't really add any new superlatives. My expectations were easily met, and then quickly and greatly exceeded. The key for me was the level of interactivity with Corey and my classmates. I've never experienced this in any live art class. I guess this is what art school is like? It easily compensates for not being in front of a museum painting or having an instructor standing next to my easel. So thanks everyone for your enthusiastic participation and making me a much, much better painter than I was 10 weeks ago! As I think Lulu mentioned, not having this site to visit and see what people are up to is going be a downer, although we do have two weeks to detox before succumbing to FB addiction (:-)! Lulu Godwin 3 days ago i was rushed to the emergency dept at moma today and put on life support. my bed is located in the de kooning room and I am graduallly reviving
John Valentich 3 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin So you began the day with a wrong turn and found yourself light headed in the Rothko room??? Merren Booth 4 days ago I agree with everyone's comments so far about the quality of this course and its strengths and "weaknesses". Not long into the class I realized that this period in American art is a tough one to categorize, let alone distill into a 10 week course! I think MoMA and Corey set the standard for quality in this new 21st c. field of "online education". This is one of the few workshops I have taken (I have to collect 8 hours of "in service" every year as part of my job as a teacher) that will give me food for thought and directions to grow for a long time! Can't wait to sit down this summer and figure out how to fit what I have learned into my curriculum. I have enjoyed being part of this thoughtful, supportive, and fun online community. Good luck and happy painting, everyone!
Corey d'Augustine 7 days ago Thanks for all of these excellent comments and suggestions! I'm very happy to hear about both the strengths and shortcomings of the course as we continue to tinker with it. I would love to include a woman, and even (gasp!) a gay artist, but the videos for the course
4 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
were made in a relatively short period of time so I modeled the course around those artists who were on view in the galleries at the time. But I'm still hopeful that we could shoot a part 2 sometime...
Kathy Gold 7 days ago PLEASE do a part 2! I found this course very rewarding, and I would definitely sign up for part 2.
Lisa Ormerod 6 days ago I think you have a readymade class just with this group! Lorinda Knight 6 days ago When you think about a Part 2, are you thinking about more artists in this time period or are you thinking of a separate course on what happens after Stella's black paintings? Either one would be great! Corey d'Augustine 6 days ago in reply to Lorinda Knight probably a combination of the two, but don't hold your breath! I've been trying to get the go ahead for a while without much luck...
Candi Imming 6 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Anything we could do to help move it along? Who could we email?
Corey d'Augustine 6 days ago in reply to Candi Imming an email of support to MoMA courses couldn't hurt, thanks!
Lorinda Knight 5 days ago in reply to Corey d'Augustine Usually student evaluations like the ones in this thread go to administrators. It shouldn't be hard for you to submit our Week 10 Discussion posts to the relevant people at MOMA. Then the truly extraordinary level of support would be obvious. But does MOMA have some hidden fund raising objective or barrier that we don't know about? (There's that money discussion question again!) Penelope Rothfield 5 days ago Corey--I intend to post again later tonight with my comments about the class, but meanwhile, I could not help but notice that you wrote that you "would love to include a woman...." in another course. (!) Maybe I am misreading your post, but i find it hard to believe that you mean to say that you would include ONE woman artist in a 10 week course covering 8 artists? Is this true? If yes, I wonder why....If you intend to concentrate on the abstract expressionist painters and/or those connected to them, you might consider many of the following artists: Elaine de Kooning, Helen Frankenthaler, Joan Mitchell, Anne Ryan, Lee Krasner, Nell Blaine, Mary Abbott, Grace Harington, Lois Dodd, (Dorothea Rockburne?) and other artists I have only seen mentioned in lists of Abstract
5 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
Expressionists artists (but don't know the work) such as Niki de Saint Phalle, Jane Wilson, Jane Freilicher, Marisol, Matsumi Kanemitsu (?) and I am pretty certain that i am leaving out many many artists of the period who were/are women and who had some engagement at some point with the ideas and practices of ab ex. Just last night I read a kind of disturbing article by Holland Cotter in the NY Times about what he would do if he had the same amount of money that was just paid for Munch's "The Scream"--what would he do with the money? and he writes about using to purchase the work of women artists, many of whom are unknown to most people and yet have been influential. I will attach it if i can in case any one would like to read it. Attachments: How to Spend $120 Million - Edvard Munch’s ‘Scream’ - NYTimes.html
Lulu Godwin 18 days ago Thanks to all my fellow students for making this such a wonderful experience and sharing all their work. If you are interested you can "like" us on Facebook at MOMALICIOUS 2012 to stay in touch.
Michael Clifford 11 days ago Agreed that reproductions can never be the same as the real thing, but with living in Vietnam, this course has brought me closer than I could ever have expected. Thank you MOMA and thank you Corey for your willingness to share your insight and expertise, and thanks to all for sharing the experience. You have set me on a thouroughly enjoyable and educational journey. If I do ever walk into the MoMA I will know which pieces to look out for, but also believe I will have a better understanding of other works before seeing them in the flesh, so to speak. I am convinced Lulu, that you have never seen the Seagram Rothko's in the Tate Modern. Standing in front of them and letting the colours emmerse you will surely convert you. Get on that plane! I'm going again this summer, anyone else fancy coming along? Mike
Lisa Ormerod 10 days ago I plan on a trip to London in September, post Olympics! The Tate (s) are on my lengthy list of museums. Kathy Gold 10 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford Mike, I am sorely tempted. I would looooove a trip to London and the Tate this summer. I don't think it's going to happen, though. Maybe if MoMA made it mandatory for this course, I would HAVE to do it....
Lulu Godwin 9 days ago in reply to Michael Clifford Hi Michael I have (tried) to stand in front of Rothko's during New York visits, but
6 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
unfortunately I fell asleep while doing so. The guard had to bring me a pillow and a blanket, but thanks. We all have our preferences n'est-ce pas?
marc brickman 9 days ago wow. sorry you can't feel the depth and beauty of rothko's colour. that truly is a sad statement. Lulu Godwin 8 days ago in reply to marc brickman What do you feel about Basquiat ? Matisse? Picasso? Monet? Mondrian? De Kooning? Do you not feel the depth and beauty of their expression Marc? Does their work not move you to tears? No - well why not? Why do you not like what I like Marc? Surely we MUST all conform in our taste. We must conform. You must conform. If you cannot conform to what I like, then I am very sorry for you. Shall I go on and on and on and on with examples of artists back to the Renaissance and see where our tastes may differ? Newsflash - Marc- art is SUBJECTIVE ! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Over and out.
marc brickman 8 days ago didn't mean for you to flip. i was feeling true empathy toward you and your statement of rothko being a waste of time.. that truly is sad that you cannot feel his depth. that's all... truly sorry. Kathia G 5 days ago in reply to Lulu Godwin I took my husband to listen an interview with Donna Karan a few weeks ago. Fashion is the other side of art I love. Well, we were on the third row and I listened a loud snore. It was not at the end of the theater...it was next to me! He had a long week so I understood he was tired. After the show we ran home and he took a business call from Hong Kong and he was laughing and very alert... message=he was just bored! LOL Things are out of this world for some people, while for others it´s just completely boring. =) I don´t understand it either but that´s life.
marc brickman 5 days ago that is hilarious!! thanks for the tale..
take care.
m Lulu Godwin 6 days ago Part Two please but no more friggin BLACK minimalist paintings. Thanks. More gestural artists and Part II of DeK. THANKS COREY for everything and thanks again to MOMA. xxx hugs from Vancouver
Kathy Gold 7 days ago
7 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
My suggestions: Three of the weeks were quite clinical exercises--artists who had a one-of- a-kind method, quite simple to copy, which became their signature work (Newman, Reinhardt black paintings and Stella black/line paintings). I could have done with at least one less of those types of clinical exercises. It was interesting to learn about the technique to file away for future reference, but it's not a way I personally am going to paint as it would so clearly be copying. I think at least one woman needs to be included--I would love Frankenthaler, Martin or Krasner.
Lorinda Knight 7 days ago There is no substitute for seeing the real thing. But now we are even more eager to go out and find it whenever we can (and I think we were a pretty eager bunch to begin with). The combination of studio, readings, polls, videos, discussion questions and other resources was outstanding. Corey's comments on submitted work were extremely valuable to all (not just the individual who made the piece). This was one of the best courses, even one of the best experiences, of my life. Ten weeks was about the right length of time and the March/April time slot was perfect. I have 2 suggestions: (1) Add a brief video primer on photography guidelines at the outset so that students are able to share the results of their studio work to best advantage, and (2) Record a new video with a different type of Stella exercise. I look forward to taking another course from Corey and hope it includes Jasper Johns.
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago a few early thoughts re: "did it work?" Well, the short answer is YES! I haven't really gathered all of my thoughts on this so i will have to post again once i know better what it is that i really want to say. Meanwhile i do have 3 things about the course that are on my mind that i would like to mention:
I would love it if you could provide us with a written version of the art history lectures and museum tour lectures that we could print out and keep for ourselves. i just can't write notes fast enough during the videos to capture all of the information that seems important to me. (i mentioned this already....) it would be great, I think, if you could offer an online course in materials and techniques of drawings at MoMA--I personally love drawing materials, and drawings, and always love to learn new techniques. I have two books published by MoMA on great drawing exhibitions held there (i just love both of these books!)--one is called on LINE: Drawing Through The Twentieth Century by Cornelia Butler and Catherine de Zegher, and the other is drawing now: eight propositions (well there are your 8 weeks of classes right there!--but of course I am sure you could think of a number of ways to organize the course....) I think I remember that early on that you recommended we read the T.J. Clark article in the Landau collection called "In Defense of Abstract Expressionism" and I guess (I could be just making this up) I guess I thought that we were going to discuss the article at some point and i guess i was kind of looking forward to that, but then we never really did (did we??) I think that all of the recommended readings were excellent and I guess that the discussion questions do allow for one to bring the readings into the discussion so...perhaps that was the idea...and i also admit that i found it difficult to take in all of the material available through the course so why am i proposing that a more formal opportunity be given to discussing suggested readings? I don't know!! just a thought!
8 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
marc brickman 10 days ago yes it worked thank you for sharing the knowledge. i have been painting endlessly for years in addition to my day job as a lighting/production designer for some of the biggest artists on the planet. in both capacities i have always felt a lack of knowledge of how-to and what -for. this course has answered and opened my mind up to the possibilities to twist and turn what others have pioneered ahead of us. the only maybe was the last week with stella but i understand why he was there. thanks again.
Penelope Rothfield 9 days ago wow--what a great job you have! i used to have a boyfriend who was a lighting designer and i always envied how beautifully he designed the lighting for his apartment..... marc brickman 9 days ago yes, it has been a charmed life.. i toured for years with the soundtrack of our life. i have lit my property at nite. Candi Imming 10 days ago I definitely found this class a great way to learn, even if I never really channeled deKooning. I do think deKooning should be last and a couple of weeks long. I would like to do this with more artists represented at MOMA, before or after this period. Having classmates share their efforts also helped expand my horizon on how to approach the tasks. I am now going back through and glean what I can to create an FAQ of what I need to remember about each artist and their style. Some of this information resides in the lectures, but guidance also show up in the critiques by Corey. I also acquired many more books on specific artists, as I found them helpful to keep looking at for inspiration and understanding. I am not so sure the books for the class proved that helpful to me. Corey, you do an excellent job in the videos and responding to our efforts. I look forward to the next online class you put together, as I will most certainly attend. I already have signed up for the Collage class that starts in June. It seems odd not to have to work on an assignment.
Lulu Godwin 9 days ago Agreed 1000% = two weeks needed on De Kooning for sure. The DeK was the only weak section, needs more "Corey demo" probably two to show the different techniques at different times, plus additional discussion of DeK's work. Beef up the DeK section and you have achieved pefection. Vids available to purchase of Corey's demos too please. LOVED THE WHOLE COURSE. Corey here is a link http://www.hellobc.com/hope/ I was on in Hope on the weekend and I bought you a little gift which I will bring for you. Hope, B.C. has THE most spectacular scenery, fishing, hiking and lakes for anyone who is visiting Vancouver and it only takes 80 minutes by car from Vancouver.
Kathy Gold 10 days ago I definitely think it worked. There is absolutely no substitute for viewing the real works of art, but viewing them online still was meaningful to me. The videos were incredibly helpful. I like to see
9 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
use of different techniques as I tend to get stuck in a rut and I need to see different ways of doing things, and this course was great for that. I signed up for this course on a whim--saw the email at midnight after I came home from a night out and signed up on the spot. It was worth it! I didn't know how meaningful the studio discussions could be, but they were meaningful. Granted, an online photo can never look like the real thing, but there is still a lot you can see and I enjoyed seeing the works of others in the course. Corey, I am amazed at your ability to articulate what is working and not working in something. A lot of times I think I can see what is working and not working, but I am unable to articulate it as you can, and it is helpful to read your comments. Bottom line: If MoMA offers another course of this type, I'm in!
Lisa Ormerod 10 days ago Walter Benjamin revisited! When I was in art school we all read and discussed "Art in the age of mechanical reproduction" by Walter Benjamin which is what this question is addressing yet again. Now we have access to better images, we are able to look close up with little loss in detail or crispness which does allow the viewer to see each painting better than they have even 10 years ago. I really enjoyed the videos of Corey in the galleries where we looked closely at paintings and the clips of the curators talking about the work. I got a deeper understanding of the work, its place in history and the innovations of the time Then I went to the museum to look at the work directly which has a much bigger impact. Barney is right. You don't get the same experience from reproductions, but you can amass information from reading and looking at images that enhance your experience when in the museum and encourages you to go and look at work so reproductions are an important tool but no substitute for the real thing. So yes, Corey, it did work. But I would reconsider two things. Not ending with Stella. After a great series of artists with really different approaches and techniques, I feel a little let down by him. After working so hard on Reinhardt with the black paintings and Ryman with his rule based work, I did feel like Stella was a less interesting extension of those two who I enjoyed very much. Plus it's also personal, I don't like the trajectory of his work. I tend to think of him as a "one hit wonder". Harsh criticism I know but he was the low point in an otherwise really engaging class. I would also like to see a woman included, Krasner, Martin, Frankenthaler, Mitchell? Someone I never heard of? Overall, I really enjoyed this class. I created almost 50 pieces in this class (not all posted) which allowed me to explore new techniques in making work and pushed my mark making into new territories! I really enjoyed this class and would love to take more classes that integrate technique, art history and studio work. Its a great way to learn! Thanks!
Lulu Godwin 20 days ago Dear Corey: Although I am 113 years old, due to the absolute magnificence of this course and the brilliance of your feedback and comments throughout to myself and other students, I am obliged to ask: will you be my baby Daddy? It must be an enormous challenge to teach this type of course, yet you provided consistently helpful, in depth and brilliant comments and suggestions to the class on their work . I cannot think of a greater challenge for any instructor than view sometimes poorly photographed work, of all levels and descriptions, and to offer very high quality feedback that incorporates suggestions of comparative work for further exploration by other artists as well as feedback on style and
10 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM Haiku LMS https://education.moma.org/cdaugustine/techniquesofpostwarabs...
technique. Corey El Magnifico I Luv Ya Baby!! Did it work - YES YES YES. The combination of Corey cruising MOMA with the actual paintings, then his in studio demos was excellent. Plus the other resources that you added in by way of videos and links to other sites as well as other MOMA information on the artists. I was blown away at the quality of this course in all respects, technologically and instructor wise. Thanks to your IT dept. for such a well crafted and smooth design. Well done indeed. One one blip - I am guessing here, but did you do your Masters in Mr. Yawn Rothko. His style is not complex despite how Art Speak dresses him up with fancy words. My man DeK deserved way more attention and coverage - could you beef up that section with more In The Studio and an exploration of his techniques. Dear MOMA - thank you so much for pouring your resources into making this brilliant course available online to reach a global audience of learners. MORE PLEASE. Jasper Johns for instance. Joan Mitchell. And please spend some of your loot on buying some Basquiat paintings, not drawings, and put him in the next course. THANKS MOMA you are MOMALICIOUS.
11 of 11 5/11/12 7:38 AM