COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
SENATE Official Hansard No. 6, 2004 WEDNESDAY, 12 MAY 2004
FORTIETH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—EIGHTH PERIOD
BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE
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CONTENTS
WEDNESDAY, 12 MAY
Question Time...... 22975 Business— Rearrangement...... 22976 Postal Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2003— Second Reading...... 22976 In Committee...... 22984 Third Reading...... 23000 Vet er a ns’ Entitlements Amendment (Electronic Delivery) Bill 2004— Second Reading...... 23001 Third Reading...... 23005 Australian Federal Police and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2003 [2004]— Second Reading...... 23005 In Committee...... 23012 Third Reading...... 23022 Matters of Public Interest— Small Business: Union Membership ...... 23023 Rural and Regional Australia: Health Services ...... 23026 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23030 Western Australia: Labor Government ...... 23033 Nuclear Energy: Waste Storage ...... 23038 Western Australia: Labor Government ...... 23041 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23041 Questions Without Notice— Budget 2004-05 ...... 23042 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23043 Distinguished Visitors...... 23044 Questions Without Notice— Budget 2004-05 ...... 23044 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23046 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23047 Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners ...... 23048 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23049 Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners ...... 23050 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23052 Health and Ageing: Aged Care...... 23053 Family Services: Child Care...... 23054 Questions Without Notice: Additional Answers— Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners ...... 23055 Military Detention: Australian Citizens...... 23056 Question Time...... 23056 Questions Without Notice: Take Note of Answers— Budget 2004-05 ...... 23057 Petitions— Education: Educational Textbook Subsidy Scheme ...... 23064 Notices— Presentation ...... 23064 Committees— Selection of Bills Committee—Report...... 23065
CONTENTS—continued
Notices— Postponement ...... 23066 Higher Education Contribution Scheme ...... 23067 Committees— Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee—Meeting ...... 23067 Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee—Meeting ...... 23067 Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee—Extension of Time...... 23067 Legal and Constitutional Legislation Committee—Meeting...... 23068 Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee—Meeting...... 23068 Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee—Extension of Time...... 23068 Privileges Committee—Reference ...... 23068 Eureka Stockade: 150th Anniversary...... 23068 International Conference for Renewable Energies ...... 23069 International Renewable Energy Agency...... 23069 Committees— Scrutiny of Bills—Report...... 23069 Budget— Consideration by Legislation Committees—Additional Information ...... 23069 Consideration by Legislation Committees—Additional Information ...... 23069 Committees— Public Accounts and Audit Committee—Statement...... 23069 National Drug Research Strategy— Return to Order...... 23071 Immigration: Visa Approvals— Return to Order...... 23071 New International Tax Arrangements Bill 2003— Report of Economics Legislation Committee ...... 23072 Tax Laws Amendment (2004 Measures No. 1) Bill 2004— Report of Economics Legislation Committee ...... 23073 Treasury Legislation Amendment (Professional Standards) Bill 2003— Report of Economics Legislation Committee ...... 23073 Sex Discrimination Amendment (Teaching Profession) Bill 2004— Second Reading...... 23073 Notices— Presentation ...... 23088 First Speech ...... 23089 Sex Discrimination Amendment (Teaching Profession) Bill 2004— Second Reading...... 23094 Notices— Presentation ...... 23114 Adjournment— Western Australia: Labor Government ...... 23114 Tay, Professor Alice Erh-Soon, AM ...... 23117 Budget 2004-05 ...... 23119 Documents— Tabling...... 23121 Tabling...... 23121
CONTENTS—continued
Questions on Notice— Sustainable Regions Program—(Question No. 1747)...... 23122 Fisheries: Roundtable—(Question No. 1986) ...... 23125 Trade: Free Trade Agreement—(Question No. 2208) ...... 23128 Immigration: Detainees—(Question No. 2331) ...... 23128 Immigration: Detainees—(Question No. 2359) ...... 23131 Communications: Special Digital Data Service—(Question No. 2375)...... 23134 Environment: Lake Kununurra—(Question No. 2480)...... 23135 Tourism: Australia-Pacific Cruise Industry—(Question No. 2574) ...... 23136 Small Business: Studies—(Question No. 2577)...... 23137 National Office for the Information Economy: Personnel—(Question No. 2650)...... 23137 Social Welfare: Newstart Allowance—(Question Nos 2662 and 2663)...... 23138 Defence: Properties—(Question No. 2685)...... 23139 Defence: Shoalwater Bay—(Question No. 2700) ...... 23161 Defence: Lancelin Training Area—(Question No. 2704)...... 23162 Health: Vision Screening—(Question No. 2705) ...... 23163 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services: Staffing—(Question No. 2710) ...... 23164 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services: Staffing—(Question No. 2711)...... 23178 Australian Grand Prix: Tobacco—(Question No. 2712) ...... 23179 Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda—(Question No. 2714)...... 23179 Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs: ATSIC News—(Question No. 2728)...... 23181 Community Development Employment Projects: Participants—(Question No. 2731)...... 23181 Community Development Employment Projects—(Question No. 2732) ...... 23182 Shipping: Crimes at Sea—(Question No. 2736) ...... 23186 Australian Defence Force: Commonwealth Law Enforcement—(Question No. 2756)...... 23186 Indigenous Affairs: Native Title Claimants—(Question No. 2761) ...... 23187 Foreign Affairs and Trade: Legal Services—(Question Nos 2782 and 2784)...... 23188 Industry, Tourism and Resources: Legal Services—(Question No. 2793) ...... 23189 Health: National Immunisation Program—(Question No. 2802)...... 23189 Defence: Depleted Uranium—(Question No. 2810) ...... 23190 Environment: Climate Change—(Question No. 2811)...... 23190 AusAID: Projects—(Question No. 2823)...... 23191
Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22975
Wednesday, 12 May 2004 Senator Ian Campbell—Are you taking a ————— point of order? The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. Senator Mark Bishop—I am. Paul Calvert) took the chair at 9.30 a.m. and Senator Ian Campbell—Are you seeking read prayers. leave to make a statement? You can’t just get QUESTION TIME up and talk. Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Special The PRESIDENT—Order! Minister of State) (9.31 a.m.)—Mr President, Senator Mark Bishop—I am seeking that I rise on a brief point of order. I request that the allegations made be— you investigate the Hansard tape from yes- Senator Ian Campbell interjecting— terday’s question time. You will recall, Mr The PRESIDENT—Order! Senator President, that I raised a point of order dur- Campbell, I am running this show, not you. ing question time asserting that Senator He is speaking to the point of order. He is Chris Evans may have said something unpar- allowed to speak to the point of order. liamentary, in response to which Senator Evans rose to his feet and asserted that he Senator Ian Campbell—He has asked had said certain words to you. The difficulty you to review something. for Senator Evans is that the Hansard tape— The PRESIDENT—He has not; he has and I have a copy of it in my office—clearly asked to speak to the point of order. Senator discloses that what he said to you is not what Abetz took a point of order. Senator Bishop he said by way of interjection. It is my re- is speaking to that point of order, which is spectful submission that that is deserving of quite within order. investigation and that, depending on your Senator Mark Bishop—Thank you, investigation, Senator Evans ought to come Chair. Senator Abetz is making assertions. back into this place and apologise to the He is asserting them as matters of fact. I re- Senate for seeking to mislead you. quest that those assertions be withdrawn I will not take the matter any further at pending review by yourself—if you choose this stage; suffice to say that we all say to conduct a review. That is the point of or- things in the heat of the moment and are re- der I am taking. quested to withdraw them from time to Senator Ian Campbell—Now you are time—and that is fine. But to then try to taking a point of order. Make up your mind, cover that up and mislead the President by you goose. asserting that words were spoken other than Senator Mark Bishop—Stay with the those that were actually spoken is, I believe, point of order, you fool. a matter of moment. It is a serious matter and one that is deserving of investigation. I do Senator Ian Campbell—You’re a goose. not take the matter any further. Senator Mark Bishop—You’re a fool. Senator Mark Bishop—Mr President, on The PRESIDENT—Order! You are both the point of order: Senator Abetz just made a out of order. You are both using unparlia- number of assertions. He asserted them as mentary language and I would ask you to matters of fact and matters of truth. He has come to order. I had intended to review the asked for an inquiry to be conducted. He has tape. I did review the Hansard and what made certain allegations. Senator Evans alleged that he said was not unparliamentary. If it is possible to review
CHAMBER 22976 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 the tape and find out what the allegedly of- support some but not all of the measures fensive words were, I will. Thank you, Sena- contained in the bill. Broadly speaking, La- tor Abetz. bor support the aspects of the bill which en- Senator Mark Bishop—I raise a point of hance the ACCC’s ability to ensure that Aus- order. Senator Abetz has made imputations— tralia Post is not cross-subsidising its com- petitive services from its reserve core service The PRESIDENT—Senator Bishop, I in an uncompetitive manner. We will be op- have already ruled on what I am going to do: posing the provisions in the bill that deregu- I am going to review the tape. late document exchange and aggregation Senator Mark Bishop—On a further services. We will seek to protect these ser- point of order, I seek that the imputations vices within the ambit of Australia Post re- made against Senator Evans be withdrawn at serve services. These provisions represent a this stage until your review is concluded. first small step towards the deregulation of Senator ABETZ—Mr President, I am Australia Post. Labor oppose these provi- happy to withdraw pending your investiga- sions absolutely. We will also oppose the tion. I look forward to Senator Evans’s apol- provisions in the bill transferring the moni- ogy. toring of Australia Post from the Auditor- BUSINESS General to the Australian Communications Authority. We do, however, support in prin- Rearrangement ciple the improvements to regional standards Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western monitoring associated with this section. I Australia—Manager of Government Busi- will now consider the bill in more detail. ness in the Senate) (9.35 a.m.)—I move: The bill contains measures to enable the That consideration of the business before the Australian Competition and Consumer Senate on Wednesday, 12 May 2004 be inter- Commission, the ACCC, to determine rupted at approximately 5 pm, but not so as to interrupt a senator speaking, to enable Senator whether Australia Post is cross-subsidising Fifield to make his first speech without any ques- its competitive services from its core re- tion before the chair. served service. These will allow the ACCC Question agreed to. to ensure that Australia Post is not cross- subsidising its non-reserved services to the POSTAL SERVICES LEGISLATION detriment of competitors such as newsagents. AMENDMENT BILL 2003 The measures will allow the ACCC to keep Second Reading detailed accounting and auditing information Debate resumed from 1 March, on motion about Australia Post’s reserved services. The by Senator Ian Campbell: bill will also allow the ACCC to inquire into That this bill be now read a second time. disputes regarding the rate reduction Austra- lia Post allows its bulk mail customers. Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- tralia) (9.35 a.m.)—The Postal Services Leg- Australia Post should not be able to use islation Amendment Bill 2003 seeks to the benefits derived from its reserved ser- amend the Australian Postal Corporation Act vices to unfairly undermine competition in 1989 and other acts of this parliament. These other, non-reserved areas. This is why Labor amendments seek to implement a variety of supports the greater scrutiny of Australia consumer and regulatory reforms to Australia Post by the ACCC. However, Labor supports Post and the postal services industry. Labor absolutely the continuation of Australia Post’s reserved service. Around 85 per cent
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22977 of Australia Post’s activities are now fully Australia Post’s reserved service. The provi- contestable. It is important that in these areas sions amount to a further deregulation of the playing field between Australia Post and Australia Post’s services. its private sector competitors be even and Australia Post cannot be expected to ade- fair. quately undertake its strict community ser- Labor welcome most of these initiatives vice obligations if its reserved mail services and are happy to support them. However, we are gradually opened up to further competi- have some concerns that the new ACCC role tion. Australia Post’s community service ob- is to be funded by a levy on Australia Post. ligation depends on the retention of its re- The estimated cost to Australia Post is up to served service area. This provides an acces- $3.5 million per year. Furthermore, the peo- sible standard letter service to all Australians ple who will benefit from the new ACCC at a uniform cost. History has vindicated the role are likely to be Australia Post’s competi- former Labor government’s model for Aus- tors. This money will ultimately come out of tralia Post’s reserved services. Australia Post Australia Post’s profits and its annual divi- has achieved outstanding financial and ser- dend to the government. Telstra, with its $3- vice performance in recent years under both plus billion profits, did not have similar lev- Labor and coalition governments. Australia ies placed on it in the same circumstances. Post’s current regulatory settings are good Despite our concerns, and in the absence of for the economy and useful for general mail an alternative funding model, Labor will users. Australia Post’s outstanding perform- support for now the government’s new fund- ance levels have been achieved because its ing model for the ACCC’s Australia Post core responsibility, the standard letter, is still role. However, we will be monitoring this reserved. funding arrangement very carefully. Australia has a relatively small population Some of our key concerns about the bill distributed very unevenly across an enor- lie with schedule 1 amendment items 11 mous landmass. This means that it is essen- through to 14. These amendments legitimise tial that we have some mechanism for cross- certain practices of document exchange and subsidisation of our basic postal services to aggregation services. They represent the first ensure that all Australians throughout our step towards the deregulation of Australia society can communicate adequately by post. Post’s core reserved articles. Labor oppose In 2000 the government tried to enact the these amendments and will be moving to Postal Services Legislation Amendment Bill, strike out this section of the bill. It is clear which also pursued its deregulatory agenda. that the Howard government’s long-term Fortunately the bill was withdrawn due to policy ambition is to deregulate and eventu- lack of support in parliament, including on ally privatise Australia Post. Under this bill the government’s own side. But the govern- the carriage of letters from an aggregation ment’s deregulatory agenda remains appar- services customer to an aggregator will be ent, as demonstrated in the bill before us to- excised from Australia Post’s reserved ser- day. vices. Labor reject these provisions. The bill The other aspect of the bill which Labor also provides that the carriage of letters be- opposes is the proposed new Australia Post tween a document exchange customer and a monitoring role for the Australian Communi- document exchange centre will be exempted cations Authority. This is the proposed new from Australia Post’s reserved services cov- part 4A, division 1 of the Australian Postal erage. Again, Labor reject this weakening of
CHAMBER 22978 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Corporation Act 1989. At present the Audi- Senator Ian Campbell—I rise on a point tor-General monitors Australia Post’s service of order. Mr Acting Deputy President, Sena- standards. The government is proposing in tor Bishop seems to be in breach of standing this bill to transfer this function to the Aus- order 187. He is reading word for word from tralian Communications Authority. Labor a speech off a lectern and not making any prefers that the current role of the Auditor- attempt to deliver a speech. He is just read- General remain in place. The Auditor- ing word for word from a prepared text, General, as we all know, is completely inde- which is clearly in breach of the standing pendent of the communications minister, but orders. I would like you to draw that to his the ACA is not sufficiently independent of attention. the government to monitor Australia Post’s The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT standards and costs. (Senator Brandis)—I direct Senator In the telecommunications area, the ACA Bishop’s attention to standing order 187. was exposed last year for reporting statistics Senator MARK BISHOP—This pro- which portrayed Telstra’s annual network vides a mechanism to enable the measure- fault levels in an extremely favourable and ment of Australia Post’s service delivery misleading light. Just in the last few months arrangements. This amendment is designed a leaked internal Telstra document further to improve the assessment of whether deliv- exposed the weaknesses in the ACA’s tele- ery services should be provided to particular communications monitoring role. This communities. Under current processes it is leaked Telstra document showed that Tel- difficult for communities to convince Austra- stra’s soaring fault levels were due to net- lia Post to institute delivery services to par- work neglect. In Labor’s view, the Auditor- ticular areas. General represents a much more independent Senator Ian Campbell—Mr Acting Dep- and robust institution for monitoring Austra- uty President, I rise on a point of order. Per- lia Post’s performance. haps Senator Bishop is not aware of standing The government is now in the process of order 187. It specifically says: reviewing future arrangements for its two A senator shall not read a speech. communications regulators, the ABA and the ACA. The minister referred to this possible Senator Bishop is reading a speech, which is merger in a speech earlier this year. It is in direct breach of the standing orders. He is therefore premature to grant either of these not referring to copious notes; he is reading agencies significant new powers before that word for word from a prepared text, which is review is concluded. At the committee stage clearly in breach of standing orders. we will oppose the entirety of the proposed The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— new part 4A, division 1 of the Australian Minister, assuming Senator Bishop was not Postal Corporation Act 1989. We will also be aware of standing order 187, which I very opposing the repeal of division 1A of part 3 much doubt, the effect of it was plainly con- of the Australian Postal Corporation Act veyed by your first point of order. I must 1989, contained in item 10 of this bill, which confess that I was not observing Senator effectively repeals the Auditor-General’s Bishop speaking when you made your first postal monitoring role. However, Labor do point of order. In the time between your first support the proposed new section— and your second points of order I did look at him. I do not think that he is trespassing be-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22979 yond the understanding of standing order support these provisions in principle, we will 187 in relation to copious notes. propose a different way of achieving the Senator Ian Campbell—Mr Acting Dep- same outcome. We will do this by moving an uty President, on the point of order: perhaps amendment for a new section 28C(3) of the when Senator Bishop has concluded his Australian Postal Corporation Act, enhanc- reading of his text he will be kind enough to ing the Auditor-General’s delivery arrange- assist Hansard by tabling it. I think that that ments role. This will enhance the Auditor- is often his practice. Perhaps you could com- General’s existing role and achieve the same pare his prepared text with the Hansard re- outcome through a different agency. It will cord and see if in fact he has read it word for also ensure that communities can gain decent word. That would be a good test for it. access to Australia Post services where ap- propriate. The government also proposes a The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— new section 50E to allow the minister to di- Minister, I do not think that that is a point of rect the ACA to monitor and report to the order. minister on specified matters relating to Aus- Senator Ian Campbell—That standing tralia Post’s supply of postal services. Again, order is now defunct, is it? Labor have no problems with this new provi- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— sion. We will move that the same function No. I do not think you are taking a point of outlined in section 50E be entrusted to the order; you are suggesting a course of action, Auditor-General, not to the ACA. but I do not think you are taking a point of One reform that would have benefited order. consumers which is not in the bill and should Senator MARK BISHOP—I was just be is the establishment of a postal industry making a comment that the government had ombudsman. The government promised such instituted a review of its two communica- an ombudsman prior to the last election to tions agencies—the ABA and the ACA. The improve consumer outcomes in the postal comments I made were in the context of the sector. Such an ombudsman would apply to speech having been prepared some time ago. all postal service operators, not just Australia I am now advised that the government last Post. More than two years into the govern- evening announced a merger of the ABA and ment’s term and approaching the end of that the ACA. term, the government has not yet legislated Senator Ian Campbell—That’s the trou- for this significant reform. Until the govern- ble with reading a prepared text. ment implements its postal ombudsman pro- posal, that proposal can only be regarded as a Senator MARK BISHOP—Why don’t broken promise. Finally, there are some mi- you keep your mouth shut and listen to the nor provisions in this bill—items 23 and speech! 24—which are technical amendments to up- The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— date the Australian Postal Corporation Act. Senator Bishop, order! Do not address an- Labor supports these latter amendments. I other senator like that. Senator Ian Campbell, will speak further to the amendments in you remain silent, too. committee. Senator MARK BISHOP—Under cur- Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (9.49 rent processes it is difficult for communities a.m.)—The Postal Services Legislation to convince Australia Post to institute deliv- Amendment Bill 2003 makes amendments to ery services to particular areas. While Labor the Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989
CHAMBER 22980 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 to do a number of things. It shifts responsi- provided by Australia Post. But the govern- bility from the Auditor-General and provides ment has never demonstrated that any tangi- the Australian Communications Authority ble benefits would flow to the community with responsibility for the oversight of, and from such deregulation. It has at best as- reporting on, Australia Post’s supply of serted that increased competition will im- postal services. It requires the ACCC to prove the postal services industry, but it has make record-keeping rules for Australia Post not actually proven that that will occur. The and to inquire into disputes in relation to the Democrats are very cynical about the claims terms and conditions of Australia Post’s bulk of competition policy. We have had too interconnection services. It makes changes to much experience with deregulation and Australia Post’s reserved services in relation competition policy having adverse effects to to document exchange and aggregation. The believe assertions anymore. bill is a very distant relative of the Postal The Democrats do not share the govern- Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2000, ment’s concerns regarding the need for com- which proposed more extensive deregulation petition in postal services. Australia Post is of the postal service industry and which the already one of the most efficient postal ser- Democrats emphatically opposed. While this vices in the world. It provides an excellent bill is much less wide reaching and less ideo- level of service at a uniform rate to all Aus- logically driven than the previous bill, we tralians, regardless of where they live, across will not be supporting all of the provisions in this country. Its level of customer satisfac- this bill either. tion is among the highest of any Australian In one of its first key areas, the bill aims company. It is in an enviable position in to shift to the Australian Communications comparison with the private sector. In areas Authority responsibility for the monitoring with dubious telephone reception, banks that of, and reporting on, the supply of postal have closed and state government services services. The authority would be required to that are being withdrawn, Australia Post ser- measure Australia Post’s performance vices still operate. against prescribed performance standards, a The government has also argued that the job currently undertaken by the Auditor- involvement of the authority is necessary to General. It would be required to calculate the establish a consumer complaints mechanism. cost to Australia Post of carrying out com- But, again, the government has failed to pro- munity service obligations which are cur- vide any data to demonstrate that need. There rently performed by Post, based on a model already exist two separate consumer com- developed by the government. It would be plaints mechanisms: one through the Com- required to monitor and report to the minister monwealth Ombudsman and the other on specific matters relating to Australia through Australia Post itself. The Ombuds- Post’s supply of postal services—an activity man’s dispute mechanism assists consumers not currently performed by anybody at all. to settle their differences with suppliers of The government has argued that, as Aus- goods and services informally and quickly tralia Post retains a monopoly over the deliv- and operates as such for a further 14 gov- ery of reserved letters and there is no impe- ernment departments, including the tax of- tus of competition to drive improvements in fice. In its most recent annual report, the of- the delivery of services, the involvement of fice of the Commonwealth Ombudsman the authority is therefore needed to drive talked about Australia Post. It stated: improvements in the delivery of the services
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22981
The total number of complaints received this year The government also argues that the ACA was 1,082, compared to 1,060 in 2000-01 and the is a more appropriate body than the Auditor- 2001-02 total of 896 ... General to monitor postal services, as the To put some perspective to these figures, every ACA is the regulator of telecommunications day of the year, Australia Post moves in excess of and radio communications. However, the 18 million articles (this figure reaches 50 million Democrats share the concern expressed at in the days prior to Christmas). The proportion of various times by the opposition that the effi- complaints received by the Ombudsman is there- ciency and the effectiveness of the ACA’s fore a small percentage of the total number of transactions undertaken by Australia Post. role in monitoring telecommunications are actually open for doubt. We would like to see Much of the reason for this can be attributed to the generally high level of service that Australia improvements to how the ACA performs that Post provides to its customers and its own effec- role before we would support any considera- tive handling of complaints by its Customer Con- tion of the ACA’s role being expanded, tact Centres in each State. whether it be into postal or broadcasting In addition to the Ombudsman, complaints roles. We certainly believe that the Auditor- can be made to Australia Post itself through General performs a very good monitoring its customer service centres within each role at present at a much lower cost than state, either via a 131 telephone number or what it would cost the ACA to do it, as pro- via the Internet. Of the estimated four mil- posed by this bill. lion customer contacts a year, Australia Post The Democrats are very concerned by the estimates that less than five per cent are cus- whole issue of the cost of this ACA monitor- tomer complaints, the majority of which are ing role. The inquiry into this bill heard that resolved in a timely manner. All complaints the initial cost could be around $2 million are lodged on a database and can be easily and ongoing costs would be around $2.5 mil- accessed for crosschecking and follow-up. lion a year, levied from Australia Post on an Indeed, Australia Post’s complaints mecha- ongoing basis. We are concerned that this nism has been praised by the Ombudsman. cost would affect Australia Post’s profit and, On page 139 of the Commonwealth Om- ultimately, the level of return to shareholders budsman’s 2001-02 annual report, the Om- in the form of income tax or dividends. budsman refers to the outcomes of a review There are two questions that need to be by the office of the operations of Australia asked as a result of all this: is the problem as Post customer care centres. The report says: articulated by the government significant ... my office ... confirmed a higher degree of enough that the costs are justified and will commitment and support to effective complaint the potential benefits outweigh those costs? handling by management of Australia Post. In our view, the answer to both these ques- Not only does the Ombudsman’s office be- tions is a clear and emphatic no. The Democ- lieve that the number of complaints is small rats will not be supporting the government but it also believes that Australia Post has an provisions relating to the Australian Com- effective complaints handling procedure. The munications Authority’s role and will support Democrats, as a result, can see no particular Labor’s amendments to expand the proposed reason to argue for a multimillion dollar ex- monitoring and reporting activities as part of tra impost for the Communications Authority the Auditor-General’s role. to handle that complaints mechanism for The second area of amendments to this Australia Post. It is simply not needed. bill relates to the expanding role for the
CHAMBER 22982 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
ACCC. Currently, the postal act provides for The final area of this bill relates to the ACCC to inquire into disputes about the changes to Australia Post reserved services rate of reduction offered by Australia Post to in relation to document exchange and aggre- its bulk mail customers. The bill aims to gation services. The Democrats believe that broaden the scope of the ACCC’s power to the amendments will not lead to a further inquire. The Bills Digest notes that, since the erosion of reserved services but merely per- introduction of these measures in 1994, the mit an activity within a broad service pro- ACCC has been notified of no such dis- vided by mail aggregation and document putes—none whatsoever in 10 years. We exchange service providers which Australia certainly question the necessity to expand Post currently does not participate in, these powers further, given that they have namely, the picking up and delivering of re- not been used. However, I do concede that served mail from the service provider to the this provision is broadly consistent with customer. The core service provided by mail other legislation under which the ACCC op- aggregation and document exchange provid- erates and therefore we will not be opposing ers does not change. It seems to me rather the amendment, although we are not con- silly that a mail aggregation service provider vinced that it is absolutely necessary either. can legally accept from a customer, aggre- The bill also provides for the ACCC to gate and transfer reserved mail to Australia make record-keeping rules for Australia Post. Post but cannot pick it up from the customer. The reason for this amendment is, as I under- I do not see how allowing mail aggregation stand it, because concerns have been raised service providers to pick up the bulk mail in the past that Australia Post competes un- will change in any way their core business or fairly by cross-subsidising its competitive take business away from Australia Post. services with revenue from its reserved ser- Surely, Australia Post should not be expected vices. The National Competition Council to pick up the bulk mail from a customer and examined this issue in 1998 and found no drop it off to a mail aggregation service pro- evidence to support these claims. But the vider. council did recommend that there be a re- Similarly, with document exchange provi- quirement for detailed independent auditing sion, document exchange service providers and accounting information to provide trans- can legally transfer reserved mail and docu- parency of this financial relationship to avoid ments between document exchange service any further concern being raised. It is esti- providers, can accept certain reserved mail mated that this particular role will cost the and documents from customers and can pick ACCC about $600,000 a year. Again, we up documents but cannot pick up the re- have concerns about the cost benefit trade- served mail from customers. Again, this off, especially given that to date no evidence seems an anomaly rather than a major expan- has been found that cross-subsidising is oc- sion of services. I am a little surprised that curring between Australia Post reserved and Labor is opposing these amendments, given competitive services. Australia Post has as- that it was Labor in 1984 that initially ex- sured us that the cost and accounting re- cluded these document exchange services quirements of this measure will not affect from Australia Post’s reserved services. I postal licensees and that they are reasonably understand that Labor’s changes from 1994 comfortable with what is being proposed, so have not negatively impacted on Australia from that point of view we will not be oppos- Post’s performance. Indeed, Australia Post ing these amendments either.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22983 made a record profit in the three years after The relief that may be granted includes an injunc- the changes. tion and, at the option of Australia Post, either damages or an account of profits. In the Senate inquiry into this bill, the Communications, Electrical and Plumbing However, we believe that a penalty provision Union raised concerns that the changes in the will act as a further deterrent and we will be profitable sections of the postal market may moving such an amendment, based on a lead to major growth in the activities of al- similar provision that exists in the Telecom- ternative providers competing against Aus- munications Act. I reserve my further com- tralia Post and would undermine the finan- ments for the committee stage. cial foundation of the reserved service opera- Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for tion. Australia Post has expressed, both pub- the Arts and Sport) (10.01 a.m.)—I thank licly and privately, that it is not concerned senators for their contributions. It is true that with this particular provision and that the Australia Post holds a unique position in the proposed changes will not have a negative Australian landscape. All Australians to effect on its bottom line. In correspondence some extent, and many to a great extent, use with my office, Australia Post has stated: the services of Australia Post. Because of its Aggregation is of benefit to Australia Post, be- importance to the Australian community, it is cause it provides Post with more mail that can be desirable to do whatever is possible to make processed more efficiently and for significantly sure that businesses and residential consum- less cost. The revenue reduction is more than ers can be confident about the ongoing qual- outweighed by the associated cost savings. Aus- ity of Australia Post’s services. tralia Post has confirmed that the aggregation amendment in the Postal Services Legislation The Postal Services Legislation Amend- Amendment Bill 2003 will not have any negative ment Bill 2003 is a package of postal re- impact on its bottom line profit. forms designed to significantly improve Australia Post believes that the inclusion of regulatory and consumer aspects of the cur- safeguards in this bill with respect to docu- rent postal legislative regime. The legisla- ment exchange services will prevent the ex- tion, if supported by the Senate, will deliver pansion of these services into the Australia certainty to small business and benefits to Post core market. I note that a number of Australian consumers. For consumers it will, safeguards have been included in the bill as for the first time, provide a truly independent it stands. But we are proposing to pick up the consumer focused oversight of Australia further recommendation from the Senate Post’s performance. For small business par- inquiry to include a mechanism to tighten up ticipating in the postal market it will clarify the penalties for breaches of reserved ser- the arrangements and provide operating cer- tainty. vices. Currently, section 31 of the Australian Postal Corporation Act provides: For example, the legislation gives the Where a person has engaged, or is proposing to Australian Communications Authority, the engage, in conduct that involves ... an infringe- ACA, the power to monitor and report on ment of Australia Post’s ... reserved services, Aus- Australia Post’s supply of postal services. tralia Post may apply to the Federal Court for These amendments will safeguard the inter- relief. ests of the users of the postal system and It further provides: ensure that the highest quality of service is being provided to the public. The ACA will also be responsible for calculating the cost to
CHAMBER 22984 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Australia Post of fulfilling its community pose to move amendments to the bill. These service obligations. The fact that the gov- government amendments will clarify and ernment has announced the merger of the simplify the cost recovery mechanism to ABA and the ACA does not change the gov- fund the new postal roles of the ACA and the ernment’s approach. The legislation will also ACCC. The amendments are technical in extend the powers of the Australian Compe- nature and put in place appropriate payment tition and Consumer Commission to enable it processes. They do not change the govern- to inquire into disputes about any of the ment’s objectives or intentions or the opera- terms and conditions of a bulk mail service. tion of the bill. The government will not This will be of significant benefit to busi- support opposition amendments to the legis- nesses that are major mail users. lation since they would, if accepted, under- For some time now there have been con- mine the government’s intended reforms. cerns among some small business operators The government will not support the Democ- such as newsagents and gift shops that Aus- rat amendments as we consider, Senator tralia Post is taking advantage of its reserved Cherry, that they are unnecessary. We have service mail business to compete with these carefully weighed up these matters and have businesses. To address these concerns, the come to those conclusions. bill will allow the ACCC to require Australia The government considers all the reforms Post to keep records about the financial rela- contained in the bill to be in the public inter- tionship between different parts of its busi- est. The package of measures contained in ness and to publish reports. This, I believe, this bill represents a serious attempt to im- will ensure greater transparency of Australia prove the overall operation and regulatory Post’s operations and therefore allow the scrutiny of the postal services market for the investigation of any possible cross- benefit of all. The measures will improve the subsidisation between retail operations and quality of service regulation and hence, we the reserved services business. Other provi- believe, consumer confidence in Australia sions in the bill will provide certainty to Post. They provide clarity and certainty to small businesses who use document ex- small business participants in postal services, changes or who aggregate their mail in order they clarify the operation of the market for to gain access to Australia Post bulk mail users of bulk mail services and they address discounts. Contrary to the claims of the op- concerns about possible unfair cross- position, these are not at all related to de- subsidisation by Australia Post. Importantly, regulation. They simply clarify the existing Australia Post itself supports these measures. operations of the postal services market. Fi- The government considers that it is impor- nally, I draw to the attention of the Senate tant for the bill to be passed as soon as pos- that the legislation extends the government’s sible, as delaying the potential benefits to postal regulation powers to prescribe the consumers and businesses is unjustifiable. I procedures that Australia Post must follow in look forward to the cooperation of the Sen- polling communities to determine whether or ate. not they require the property services. This Question agreed to. will be of particular benefit to people living Bill read a second time. in remote areas of Australia. In Committee I note that both the opposition and the Democrats are proposing to move amend- Bill—by leave—taken as a whole. ments to the bill. The government also pro-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22985
Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- poses of facilitating the ACA’s new postal tralia) (10.08 a.m.)—by leave—I move op- role, which Labor rejects. position amendments (1) and (2) on the sec- Labor’s opposed schedules (4) and (5) ond revised sheet 4149: remove items 6, 8, 9 and 10 of schedule 1 of (1) Clause 4, page 2 (line 4) to page 3 (line 2), the bill. These items are part of the amend- omit subclauses (1) to (5). ments to the Australian Postal Corporation (2) Clause 4, page 3 (lines 8 to 14), omit Act 1989 which facilitate the new postal subclause (7). monitoring role for the Australian Commu- We also oppose division 1 in item 21 and nications Authority. Item 10 of the bill is of items 1 to 6, 8 to 10 and 19 and 20 in the note, we believe, because it is the clause that following terms: effectively repeals the Auditor-General’s (3) Schedule 1, items 1 to 5, page 4 (lines 4 to postal monitoring role. Labor’s opposed 27), TO BE OPPOSED. schedule (10) removes items 19 and 20 of (4) Schedule 1, item 6, page 4 (line 29) to page schedule 1. These items also amend the Aus- 5 (line 2), TO BE OPPOSED. tralian Postal Corporation Act 1989 to help (5) Schedule 1, items 8 to 10, page 5 (lines 7 to facilitate the new postal monitoring role for 16), TO BE OPPOSED. the Australian Communications Authority. Labor’s opposed schedule (11) omits divi- (10) Schedule 1, items 19 and 20, page 7 (lines 26 to 30), TO BE OPPOSED. sion 1 of item 21 of this bill. This is the sub- stantive division outlining in detail the (11) Schedule 1, item 21, page 8 (line 2) to page ACA’s new role, which is the central feature 11 (line 14), Division 1, TO BE OPPOSED. of our objection and the reasons for putting forward these amendments and opposed These amendments and opposed schedules schedules. seek to reject the bill’s provisions transfer- ring the Australia Post monitoring role from In the bill many of the clauses relating to the Auditor-General to the ACA. Labor, as I the Auditor-General’s existing postal moni- foreshadowed in the second reading debate, toring roles are simply transferred without rejects this part of the bill. Labor’s opposed change in any way to the Australian Com- schedule (11) rejecting division 1 of item 21 munications Authority. The same functions, is the key opposed schedule rejecting the the same powers and the same processes in new ACA role, and the remaining opposed the old act are proposed to be transferred into schedules—(3), (4),(5) and (10)—are conse- the new bill. The central difference is that the quential on the success of the prime opposed monitoring authority will be the ACA and schedule getting up. not the Auditor-General. Several new provi- sions are included relating to delivery ar- Labor amendments (1) and (2) omit sub- rangements, ministerial discretion and addi- clauses 1 to 5 and 7 of clause 4 of the bill tional reports, so there are some changes under discussion. These are savings provi- there. However, Labor reject division 1 of sions relating to this bill’s attempts to trans- item 21 of the bill because we do not believe fer the Australia Post monitoring role from in the new postal monitoring role for the the Auditor-General to the ACA. Labor’s ACA and prefer that it remain with the Audi- opposed schedule (3) removes items 1 to 5 of tor-General. schedule 1 of this bill. These items, as is clear, seek to amend the Australian Commu- In summary, our position is that at present nications Authority Act 1997 for the pur- the Auditor-General adequately monitors
CHAMBER 22986 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Australia Post service standards. The gov- Australia Post monitoring role from the ernment is proposing in this bill to transfer Auditor-General to the ACA. this function to the ACA. Labor prefer that In summary, Labor believe that the Audi- this current role for the Auditor-General re- tor-General does a competent and effective main in place. We believe that the Auditor- job at the moment in this area of his work General is completely independent of the and that the ACA’s role as being properly communications minister and we are not so independent of government and not open to satisfied, based upon the performance of the political pressure is problematic—and I refer ACA in more recent years, that it can be con- to recent instances where it has been under fidently asserted that the ACA is similarly review. We say that the government has an- robust, independent and free from ministerial nounced the merger of the ABA and the discretion in the way it carries out its duties, ACA, and Labor believe it is preferable to its performance and its critical role. We be- await the outcome of that merger before giv- lieve that the Auditor-General has monitored ing a new agency any extra roles, particu- Australia Post effectively and competently. larly with respect to Australia Post. We be- We do not believe the ACA is sufficiently lieve that the onus is on the government to independent of government to monitor Aus- demonstrate the need for change to the status tralia Post service standards and costs. quo. We are not satisfied that the government In the telecommunications area the ACA has brought sufficient or, indeed, any evi- was exposed last year with reported statistics dence to warrant ACA involvement in an which portrayed Telstra’s annual network area of activity which has generally been the fault levels in an extremely favourable light. subject of satisfactory regulatory oversight to In the last few weeks alone it has been the date. In any event, we are not satisfied that subject of debate in this place and elsewhere the Auditor-General is not discharging its with regard to leaked Telstra documents statutory functions adequately and, even if which show that Telstra’s soaring fault levels that were so, we do not believe that it is ap- are due predominantly to network neglect propriate at this stage to have those roles and a failure to have sufficient capital in- transferred to the ACA. vestment, and not bad weather, as was al- Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (10.17 leged by Telstra, the government and the a.m.)—The Democrats will be supporting the ACA in a rather protracted process. In La- opposition on this occasion in respect of the bor’s view, the Auditor-General is a much role of the ACA. As I outlined in my speech more independent and robust institution for in the second reading debate, the Democrats monitoring Australia Post’s performance. do not believe that these provisions add sig- A further reason for not giving the ACA nificantly to the function of oversight of Aus- these new monitoring powers is that the gov- tralia Post and its services. Furthermore, the ernment has announced the merger of the cost that would be incurred for these over- two communications regulators, the Austra- sight provisions does not actually outweigh lian Broadcasting Authority and the Austra- the benefits that they would provide. It is lian Communications Authority, and we wish noteworthy that the Auditor-General has to observe that process before additional done this role, and quite effectively, over powers or transference of powers is effec- some considerable time. There have been no tively guaranteed. Labor therefore oppose all cases put up by the government to show that the provisions in the Postal Services Legisla- the Auditor-General is not doing that role tion Amendment Bill 2003 which transfer the effectively. From our point of view, we sim-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22987 ply cannot see any merit in spending this bate properly before we consider what ex- money to have this oversight function done. tended role beyond that the ACA will take No evidence has been presented to date to on. The notion of a regulator trying to carry show that Australia Post itself needs an over- out all the current powers of the ACA— sight and better accountability. Indeed, all which, in my view, it is not undertaking ef- the evidence suggests that, whether it be fectively anyway—and then taking on the complaints from customers or the cost of roles of Professor Flint over at the ABA and services delivered or compliance with law, getting new roles when at its core is a regula- Australia Post is an exemplary government tor which, as I said, is not doing its job prop- enterprise, and from that point of view these erly, is something which we have to think provisions are not needed. about very carefully as a Senate and as a par- I would also like to note that we are actu- liament. I think that should be done when the ally saving the government some money by government brings forward its merger pro- doing this for them. The cost of this over- posal for the ABA and the ACA, and we will sight function is around $2½ million a year. see what we can make of it then. For those After the enormous pork barrel that was various reasons, the Democrats will be sup- rolled out last night, I think the government porting the opposition on this occasion. need every cent we can find for them. It is These are unnecessary provisions. It is an worth noting that the run-downs of the unnecessary $2½ million impost on Australia budget surpluses over the next four years are Post. I certainly think that, from a fiscal the equivalent of the complete cost of the point of view, the government should be do- selling of Telstra. It is worth noting at this ing everything it can to save money after its stage that the government need every $2 mil- largesse last night. lion they can find if they are actually going Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for to do anything in terms of preventing interest the Arts and Sport) (10.20 a.m.)—I think I rates going up through a massive fiscal in- have now heard just about everything in the centive. Whilst $2½ million might not sound Senate: the Democrats getting up and pur- like much, given that it is coming straight out porting to lecture the government about sav- of the Australia Post dividend and straight ing money! Senator Cherry, you should out of Australia Post services, I think it is frame your comments. I think they were quite beneficial that the Senate say to the done with tongue in cheek, because the De- government, ‘We have found a way for you mocrats have never been the slightest bit not to spend money that would be spent un- interested in saving the government money. necessarily and that would fail a cost-benefit From day one of my being here, the Democ- analysis.’ So, from that point of view, the rats’ policy under various leaders—in fact, Democrats are supportive of the opposition’s quite a few leaders—has been to spend, view that the role currently undertaken by spend and spend again. So to see you stand the Auditor-General should continue, with up and attempt to lecture the government on enhanced powers—which we will be talking fiscal prudence is, I would have to say, a about later on—and that the ACA should not unique experience in this chamber, never to be brought into this particular process. be repeated. On Senator Bishop’s comments, I also note that the government announced I must say that you know when the Labor last night that it will be merging the role of Party are on weak ground. If they do not like the ACA and the ABA. That is something a report, what do they always do? Attack the which, again, the government needs to de- messenger.
CHAMBER 22988 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
We had aspersions cast on the independ- dards. Under the government’s proposed leg- ence of the ACA. What was the substantive islation there is the opportunity for the ACA proof for this outrageous comment? The La- to examine systemic failures on a geographi- bor Party did not like their report. Under Mr cal basis. Latham, the Labor Party has spent a lot of Other issues which the ACA could exam- time going around lecturing people about ine which are currently not done by the proper behaviour and proprieties and rela- Auditor-General include geographic disag- tions with public servants and independent gregation of issues such as ongoing con- bodies. The ACA board is staffed by distin- sumer complaints and late deliveries and/or guished people and you have just cast asper- service performance in the bush in compari- sions on them, quite carelessly, that some- son with metropolitan areas. The assessment how they are succumbing to pressures from of Australia Post’s performance is, we be- Mr Daryl Williams and others. It is quite lieve, clearly more appropriately carried out outrageous and should not be accepted. by the ACA, which performs a similar role in As I pointed out, the government will not relation to the telecommunications industry. be accepting the amendments that have been The ACA, in the government’s view, is an moved by Senator Bishop. The proposals independent regulator—I stress ‘independ- contained in the bill give the ACA an over- ent’, Senator Bishop—with the requisite ex- sight role in relation to Australia Post by re- pertise to monitor and report on Australia quiring the ACA to monitor and report on Post’s performance in the supply of postal Australia Post’s performance and supply of services. postal services. The opposition’s proposal is The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN that the monitoring role proposed for the (Senator Brandis)—The question is that ACA be given instead to the Auditor- division 1 of item 21 and items 1 to 6, 8 to General, an agency whose principal function 10, 19 and 20 of the bill stand as printed. is that of auditing. That proposal is, I would Question negatived. have thought, clearly weaker in terms of transparency and consumer protection than The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN—The the government’s proposal itself. question now is that opposition amendments (1) and (2) be agreed to. The ACA’s new postal functions will benefit consumers. Senator Cherry was talk- Question agreed to. ing about costs. Senator Cherry, what about Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- costs to consumers? Again, you show one of tralia) (10.25 a.m.)—The opposition opposes the famous blind spots of the Australian De- items 11 to 14 in schedule 1 in the following mocrats. What is good for consumers here? I terms: think the government’s proposal is clearly (6) Schedule 1, items 11 to 14 , page 5 (line 17) one which is of benefit to consumers. The to page 6 (line 34), TO BE OPPOSED. ACA’s new postal functions will be able to The opposition opposes the provisions in the target specific matters for monitoring if there bill which will deregulate certain aspects of is general public concern about a particular aggregation and document exchange services matter relating to Australia Post’s supply of amendments. Items 11 to 14 in schedule 1 of postal services. At the moment I think it is the bill seek to remove two services currently true to say there is little, if any, independent reserved to Australia Post: firstly, the car- oversight of Australia Post’s postal functions riage of letters from a customer of an aggre- other than an audit against performance stan-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22989 gation service to the aggregator before out of new services, we believe it is appro- lodgment with Australia Post under its bulk priate that Australia Post engages in improv- interconnection service and, secondly, the ing its internal performances so that it can carriage of letters between the customers of a continue to deliver those services to all Aus- document exchange service and the docu- tralians. So we oppose these particular provi- ment exchange. sions that are currently before the committee. We believe this effectively erodes Austra- We support Australia Post as an integral part lia Post’s existing level of reserved services of Australia’s social and economic fabric. by providing more exceptions to these ser- Labor are not going to stand by and allow the vices. The government has said that these Howard government to slowly erode, by provisions legitimise existing business prac- chipping away, Australia Post’s critical na- tices—we understand that to be its position. tional functions, which it has been carrying What we say they would really do is legiti- out properly, effectively, efficiently and at a mise practices currently being conducted continuing low cost for many years. which have no authority and which are in We understand the Democrats may not be fact illegal. Australia Post’s reserved services supporting the change proposed by the oppo- enable Australia Post to perform its commu- sition which is opposing deregulation of nity service obligation, as we all understand. Australia Post’s reserved service, or certain This does truly enable Australia Post to pro- aspects of that. We believe this position of vide all Australians with an accessible stan- the Democrats is regrettable. The govern- dard letter service at a uniform price. Chip- ment’s first attempts to deregulate and ulti- ping away at Australia Post’s reserved ser- mately privatise Australia Post will be given vice undermines Australia Post’s ability to a hand by the Australian Democrats if they provide its community service obligation, oppose the proposed change currently before which it is required to provide under the the committee. statute which creates the organisation. It is, Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (10.30 we believe, a continuation of the govern- a.m.)—The Democrats will be supporting the ment’s attempts to deregulate and ultimately government amendments on this particular privatise Australia Post’s services. occasion. I think it is worth putting a few Australia Post’s performance levels have things on the record about the aggregation been outstanding in recent times and have and document exchange services. This af- been achieved because they are its core re- fects roughly one per cent of Australia Post’s sponsibility, a standard letter being reserved potential business, so we are talking about a as a monopoly to Australia Post. In no way very small part of Australia Post’s business. do the Labor Party depart from their ap- Indeed, in coming to our view we took into proval of that particular practice. For the last careful account the views that were raised by number of years, Labor have consistently the Post Office Agents Association and the opposed the further deregulation of Australia CEPU in their submissions to the committee. Post and the removal of services that it has The Post Office Agents Association were under statutory monopolies. We believe it is certainly concerned that they may lose busi- more appropriate that Australia Post remains ness, and the CEPU thought it was rather odd in full public ownership, delivering high- that these provisions were about legalising quality postal services to Australians across activities which are currently illegal but in this land. If there are deficiencies in the car- many cases are already being undertaken by rying out of those services or in the carrying
CHAMBER 22990 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 document exchange services in collecting should be remembered is that this is part of a and delivering mail for their customers. broader package that we are proposing, At the end of the day, we really do not be- which is to enforce more clearly these provi- lieve that these proposed provisions are the sions through the penalty provisions in the thin edge of the wedge, as Senator Bishop amendment I will be moving later. suggests, but rather that they are a fairly Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for logical extension of what was already ex- the Arts and Sport) (10.32 a.m.)—It gives me cluded from the reserved powers back in great pleasure to commend the comments 1994. Rather than actually undermining Aus- from Senator Cherry. Your form has im- tralia Post, we think they simply clarify what proved rapidly this morning. You started off is currently allowed as an exclusion from the rather poorly with your first contribution, but reserved powers, in terms of document ex- you have been able to substantially recover change and aggregation. For the benefit of ground with your second contribution. We Senator Bishop, I would like to reiterate commend the Australian Democrats for the what I said in my opening comments regard- approach that they are taking in relation to ing correspondence I received from Australia the change proposed by the opposition. Post that said: You always know the Labor Party is on Aggregation is of benefit to Australia Post, be- very weak ground when it starts to raise cause it provides Post with more mail that can be these real furphies. The truth is that the processed more efficiently and for significantly CEPU called Senator Bishop and said: less cost. The revenue reduction is more than ‘We’re getting nervous again. We don’t want outweighed by the associated cost savings. any change; we’re opposed to change’—as I think that is very important. I think the pro- unions often are. So the Labor Party—as it visions we are talking about here are for the always does; it has to when it gets a phone benefit of customers of document exchange call from the union movement saying that it and aggregation services—and I am sure has to take particular action—has to do it. Senator Kemp will be pleased to hear that I That is basically correct. am talking about benefits for customers—but Senator Mark Bishop interjecting— they are also about ensuring that we have a proper definition of what is the clear legal Senator KEMP—Senator Bishop, for extent of document exchange and aggrega- your information and again to put on record, tion services. the government has on many occasions stated its commitment to maintaining Austra- The Democrats have also picked up the lia Post in full public ownership. Suggestions concern that the Post Office Agents Associa- that the DX and aggregation provisions of tion raised about ensuring that, when we do the bill are intended as a precursor to further set these clear standards in law, they are deregulation of postal services are absurd. properly enforced by government and by This is the ‘thin edge of the wedge’ which Australia Post. That is why we will be mov- you constantly fall back on. I listened care- ing later as an amendment something that fully to the arguments that you put for- was suggested in the committee evidence, ward—as I always do; I am a courteous and that is a provision to allow for further senator and I always like to listen to contrary legal enforcement of these provisions by arguments that are put forward—but I have adopting a provision out of the Telecommu- to say that your comments were basically nications Act. In relation to supporting the absurd. We know why you made them: be- government’s amendments at this stage, what
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22991 cause the union movement, the CEPU, got Cherry, J.C. Colbeck, R. on to you and gave you your instructions so, Coonan, H.L. Eggleston, A. * like all good Labor senators, you marched Ellison, C.M. Ferris, J.M. into this chamber and ran the CEPU line. Fifield, M.P. Greig, B. Heffernan, W. Hill, R.M. Document exchange services provide im- Humphries, G. Johnston, D. portant mail collection and delivery services Kemp, C.R. Knowles, S.C. usually between groups of professional busi- Lees, M.H. Lightfoot, P.R. nesses such as doctors and lawyers. The pro- Macdonald, I. Macdonald, J.A.L. visions contained in the bill are intended to McGauran, J.J.J. Murray, A.J.M. Patterson, K.C. Payne, M.A. provide a legal basis—and this is Senator Ridgeway, A.D. Santoro, S. Cherry’s comment—for a current, longstand- Scullion, N.G. Stott Despoja, N. ing practice within the postal industry. So Tchen, T. Tierney, J.W. much for radical change in this proposal. The Troeth, J.M. Vanstone, A.E. proposed legitimisation of these practices, as Watson, J.O.W. provided for in the government’s bill, will NOES not result in the establishment of alternative Bishop, T.M. Bolkus, N. end-to-end delivery services in competition Brown, B.J. Buckland, G. * with Australia Post. Let me put that on re- Campbell, G. Carr, K.J. cord. The safeguards contained in the bill Collins, J.M.A. Conroy, S.M. will ensure that the document exchange ser- Cook, P.F.S. Crossin, P.M. Forshaw, M.G. Harradine, B. vices can continue to provide their current Hogg, J.J. Hutchins, S.P. level of services but that they will not be able Kirk, L. Ludwig, J.W. to vastly expand their membership with the Lundy, K.A. Mackay, S.M. intent of providing an alternative end-to-end Marshall, G. McLucas, J.E. delivery service. Australia Post has been Moore, C. Murphy, S.M. fully consulted in the development of the Nettle, K. O’Brien, K.W.K. safeguards and has given its full support to Sherry, N.J. Stephens, U. Webber, R. Wong, P. the proposed measures. We will not be sup- porting the Labor Party’s proposal, which, as PAIRS we all know, was probably drafted by the Campbell, I.G. Evans, C.V. CEPU. Ferguson, A.B. Ray, R.F. Mason, B.J. Faulkner, J.P. Question put: Minchin, N.H. Denman, K.J. That items 11 to 14 stand as printed. * denotes teller The committee divided. [10.40 a.m.] Question agreed to. (The Chairman—Senator J.J. Hogg) Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (10.45 Ayes………… 39 a.m.)—I move amendment R(1) on sheet 4201 in the name of the Australian Democ- Noes………… 28 rats: Majority……… 11 R(1) Schedule 1, page 6 (after line 34), after item AYES 14, insert: Abetz, E. Allison, L.F. 14A After section 30 Barnett, G. Bartlett, A.J.J. Insert: Boswell, R.L.D. Brandis, G.H. 30A Enforcement for infringement of Calvert, P.H. Chapman, H.G.P. reserved services
CHAMBER 22992 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(1) A person shall not engage in conduct (8) A proceeding under subsection (7) may that involves an infringement of be commenced within 6 years after the Australia Post’s exclusive right to contravention. undertake the reserved services. (9) For the avoidance of doubt, the remedy (2) For the purposes of this section, person in this section is in addition to that means any of the following: provided in section 31 of this Act. (a) a company; This amendment is to ensure that there is (b) a partnership; better enforcement for the infringement of (c) a person in the capacity of trustee; the reserve service of provisions, which have (d) any other person. just more properly been defined in the legis- lation. It is based very loosely on section 570 (3) If the Federal Court is satisfied that a of the Telecommunications Act in that it es- person has contravened subsection (1), the Court may order the person to pay tablishes clear penalties for infringement of to the Commonwealth such pecuniary reserve services. Our view was that this pro- penalty, in respect of each vision was essential, having looked at the contravention, as the Court determines evidence coming out of the inquiry into these to be appropriate. provisions, where in particular the Postal (4) In determining the pecuniary penalty, Office Agents Association made it clear that the Court must have regard to all they felt there was a need in the legislation to relevant matters, including: include specific penalties to act as a proper (a) the nature and extent of the deterrent to abuses. I do notice that Senator contravention; and Kemp said in his comments that there are (b) the nature and extent of any loss some safeguards in this legislation to protect or damage suffered as a result of the reserve services of Australia Post. I think the contravention; and it is a fundamental flaw that the provisions (c) the circumstances in which the currently rely on civil action by Australia contravention took place; and Post to protect its reserve services rather than (d) whether the person has previously a civil penalty provision, as is provided in been found by the Court in other competition policy areas, in particular proceedings under this Act to in the Telecommunications Act. This provi- have engaged in any similar sion, as I said, is based on section 570 of the conduct. Telecommunications Act and it puts Austra- (5) The pecuniary penalty payable under lia Post on the same basis as Telstra in terms subsection (3) by a body corporate is of ensuring that its reserve services are prop- not to exceed $250,000 for each erly protected and enforced. contravention. Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- (6) The pecuniary penalty payable under tralia) (10.46 a.m.)—Democrat amendment subsection (3) by a person other than a body corporate is not to exceed (1) implements a penalty regime for persons $50,000 for each contravention. found to be infringing Australia Post’s exclu- sive right to undertake its reserve service. (7) The Minister or the ACCC may institute a proceeding in the Federal This, we believe, is in many ways the De- Court for the recovery on behalf of the mocrats’ mea culpa amendment. The Democ- Commonwealth of a pecuniary penalty rats’ opposition to Labor’s previous amend- referred to in subsection (2). ments, which we just all noted in that divi- sion, has allowed the legislative passage of
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22993 the government’s first attempts to begin lief where a person has engaged in conduct chipping away at Australia Post’s reserve that infringes the reserve service. This relief services. This has allowed the thin edge of may constitute an injunction and, at the op- the wedge to be inserted. It has begun, and tion of Australia Post, either damages or an the government and the Democrats are there account of profits. The government believe working as allies in conjunction. So this that this mechanism and the relief that it pro- amendment, we believe, is to ease Senator vides is appropriate, and we note that Austra- Cherry’s guilty conscience about his previ- lia Post actively monitors potential breaches ous retrograde actions. However, having said of its reserve service. The current provisions that, Labor do support this amendment but have been in place for over a decade and we find it regrettable that the Democrats have worked effectively. The government could not support our previous amendment, note that Australia Post has sought relief for which would have ensured that the original, breaches of its reserve service on several stronger Australia Post reserve service re- occasions in the past in the Federal Court. mained in place. We put out our hand for Consequently the Democrat amendment assistance and it was spurned, and now the would have little or no practical utility. In thin edge of the wedge has been inserted. But practice Australia Post is in the best position we have not reciprocated. We are pleased to to monitor breaches of its reserve service and announce that we are able to support this is also the appropriate body to pursue Democrat amendment even though it is, as I breaches in the Federal Court. The govern- said at the outset, a mea maxima culpa ment also believe that the current relief pro- amendment. visions provided in the act, which include Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for damages and an account of profits, are the the Arts and Sport) (10.48 a.m.)—What an most appropriate for breaches of the reserve extraordinary intervention from Senator service. Bishop. I am sure Senator Cherry will sur- Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (10.50 vive that vicious personal attack. Senator a.m.)—I just wanted to note for the record Cherry knows, as I do, that despite the fact that the deregulation of reserve services oc- that we on this side of the chamber regard curred in 1994 under a Labor government, Senator Bishop as one of the more intelligent under communications minister Michael Lee. senators on the other side, we do note that What we voted on today is only a tiny clari- when the CEPU gives him a call and asks fication of the extent of that exclusion. It him to run some lines he is as fast as the rest seems that Senator Bishop’s many qualities of his colleagues to get on his feet and do do not include a particularly good memory. what the paymaster says. Despite your un- Question agreed to. doubted intelligence and the contributions Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- that you can make, when it is vetoed by the tralia) (10.51 a.m.)—by leave—I move op- CEPU I am afraid you are like the rest of position amendments (7), (8) and (9) on your colleagues: you just dance to that tune. sheet 4149, revised 2: Senator Cherry will be upset to hear that (7) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 16), after item we will not be supporting his amendment. 10, insert: The amendment, we believe, is unnecessary. 10A At the end of section 28C Section 31 of the Australian Postal Corpora- tion Act 1989 already provides that Australia Add: Post may apply to the Federal Court for re-
CHAMBER 22994 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(3) Without limiting the operation of now been deleted in committee stage under subsection (1), the prescribed opposition amendment (11), discussed previ- performance standards may relate to ously. methods of determining the level of mail service for a particular area. Opposition amendment (7), which is be- fore us now, relates to proposed new section (8) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 16), after item 10, insert: 50C of the Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989. The new section 50C contained a 10B Subsection 28E(1) clause which would have extended the stan- After “Australian Post must”, insert, “, dards regulation making powers of the ACA unless the Minister considers it through the Australian Postal Corporation unnecessary in the circumstances,”. Act 1989. As the EM of the bill explains, this R(9) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 16), after item new clause would enable standards to be 10, insert: prescribed relating to the processes used by 10C After section 28E Australia Post for polling communities to Insert: determine whether delivery services should 28F Minister may request additional be provided to a property. This would ad- reports dress the concern that Australia Post’s cur- (1) The Minister may request the rent method of polling communities to de- Auditor-General to monitor and termine whether to institute delivery services report to the Minister on specified to a property has made it difficult for com- matters relating to Australia Post’s munities to convince Australia Post to insti- supply of postal services. tute these services. (2) The Minister may publish the report. A range of communities across our coun- (3) The Minister may exclude from the try that do not have delivery services to a report referred to in subsection (3) property have been making a series of com- any information that Australia Post plaints to Australia Post, the government, the claims is commercial-in-confidence information if the Minister is department and, indeed, all the political par- satisfied that: ties who take an interest in this matter. They (a) the claim is justified; or have complained that the assessment process undertaken by Australia Post to determine (b) it is not in the public interest to whether there should be delivery services to publish the information. a property is deficient and unsatisfactory and These amendments, we believe, enhance the that it leads to incorrect or wrong responses, existing role of the Auditor-General to moni- upon which Australia Post determines plan- tor Australia Post, which Labor has retained ning for new services. This is an objective of through the success of the opposition’s first the original bill that Labor support in princi- batch of amendments, moved at the begin- ple; we just have a different means of achiev- ning of this debate in the committee stage. In ing that outcome, as outlined in opposition the bill, the ACA’s postal monitoring role is amendment (7). Labor support in principle similar to the Auditor-General’s existing role, the new wording of 50C, which allows for but the bill did contain some enhancements, prescribed performance standards regarding it is fair to say, of that role. These enhance- the methods of determining the level of mail ments relate to the new provisions in pro- delivery service for a particular area, but we posed sections 50C and 50E of the Australian do not support the application of this new Postal Corporation Act 1989, which have
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22995 provision to the ACA rather than the Auditor- ure to meet the standard is noted in its rele- General. vant report. The Auditor-General’s postal monitoring Furthermore, in such cases, the require- role has been kept in place by our successful ment for Australia Post to prepare a service amendment (5), which ensures that division improvement plan would clearly be unneces- 1A of part 3 of the relevant act remains in sary. Labor support in principle the merits of place. Our amendment (7) simply applies the the new wording of original section 50D, as new delivery arrangements standards role to reflected in our proposed amendment to sec- the Auditor-General using identical language tion 28E(1). Our previous amendments in to the original bill proposed for the Austra- committee have kept section 28E of the act lian Communications Authority. Amendment intact and have also defeated proposed sec- (7) will enhance the Auditor-General’s exist- tion 50D of the bill. Opposition amendment ing role and will achieve the same outcome, (8) applies a slight enhancement of Australia we believe, regarding regional delivery ar- Post’s service improvement plan arrange- rangements that the government sought to ments to the original section 28E. Therefore, achieve through the ACA. The difference the objectives of the government’s aim in the with Labor’s approach is that this improved new wording of proposed section 50C re- outcome will be achieved through a different main in place in our proposed amendment to agency—the agency that Labor believe is 28E. better suited to monitoring Australia Post, The government also planned through which, as we have now said repeatedly, we proposed new section 58E to allow the min- believe is the Auditor-General, not the ACA. ister to direct the ACA to monitor and report In summary, therefore, Labor’s alternative to the minister on specified matters relating amendment (7) will simply apply the new to Australia Post’s supply of postal services, delivery arrangements monitoring role to the which the minister has referred to in some of Auditor-General’s existing role. the committee debate. Labor do not have The next in this series of amendments re- major objections to this new provision in garding the enhancement of the Auditor- principle; we just have a problem with the General’s postal monitoring role is opposi- fact that it applies to the ACA and not to the tion amendment (8). This again applies a Auditor-General. Therefore, having defeated minor enhancement of the postal monitoring proposed new section 50E of the act, Labor’s role to the Auditor-General rather than the amendment (9) re-enacts a version of that ACA. The bill’s proposed section 50D enhanced role outlined in section 50E. mostly replicates section 28E of the existing Again, it applies to the Auditor-General and act. Labor successfully defended the existing not to the ACA. postal monitoring arrangements, including Under opposition amendment (9), which section 28E, in our amendment (4). Section creates a new section 28F of the Australian 50D did, however, have a small enhancement Postal Corporation Act 1989, the govern- on section 28E, which was that Australia ment’s proposed additional reporting role Post was not required to prepare a service will apply to the Auditor-General, not the improvement plan if the minister considered ACA. Labor’s amendment (9) is worded it unnecessary in the circumstances. This slightly differently to the bill’s original pro- minor change to section 28E recognised that posed section 50E to take into account the Australia Post may address the reasons for a fact that the Auditor-General should not be failure to meet a new standard before its fail-
CHAMBER 22996 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 directed by ministers. Therefore, the wording would be performed by the Auditor-General; states that the minister may request reports others would not be performed at all. rather than require reports, as would have The Auditor-General’s office is an agency been the case with the ACA. whose principal function is that of auditing. Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (10.58 The proposed expanded oversight powers in a.m.)—The Democrats will be supporting relation to Australia Post, which would de- these amendments for the reasons I outlined liver greater transparency and accountability earlier. I would like to comment very briefly to government and consumers, go much fur- on the role of the Auditor-General, in par- ther than auditing. It should be noted that the ticular in response to a comment from Sena- Auditor-General outsources its current func- tor Kemp earlier in the debate when he indi- tion of monitoring Australia Post’s perform- cated that the Auditor-General just audits. ance against prescribed standards to an ac- Performance auditing has been a fundamen- counting firm. The oversight function is tal part of the Auditor-General’s role in Aus- clearly more appropriately carried out by the tralia for a very long time and is increasingly ACA, which performs a similar role in rela- a significant part of the Auditor-General’s tion to the telecommunications industry. If role. Performance auditing goes way beyond the CEPU works out that there is outsourcing just auditing; it actually covers the funda- involved there, I suppose we will have an- mental issues of effectiveness, value for other amendment from the Labor Party. money and delivery against performance The ACA is an independent regulator with standards. From that point of view, the De- the requisite expertise to monitor and report mocrats believe it is appropriate for the on Australia Post’s performance in the sup- Auditor-General to continue to perform the ply of postal services. It has seven years ex- role, which it has done effectively in Austra- perience in developing processes and lia Post now for a good decade, and it is also mechanisms to monitor and report on per- appropriate that that role be enhanced in the formance in the telecommunications market. way that has been suggested to cover the The experience that it has gained over this issues the government raised in its original time can be, I am advised, appropriately ap- bill in terms of mail delivery in particular plied to establishing performance monitoring regional areas. The Democrats will be sup- arrangements in relation to Australia Post. porting these amendments and we commend We will not be supporting the amendments them to the Senate. moved by the Labor Party. Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for Question agreed to. the Arts and Sport) (10.59 a.m.)—I am sorry Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for that Senator Cherry was not persuaded by the Arts and Sport) (11.02 a.m.)—I table a my earlier arguments. As I said, his form in supplementary explanatory memorandum this debate is becoming more variable again. relating to the government amendments to be The government will not be supporting the moved to this bill. The memorandum was opposition’s amendments. The government’s circulated in the chamber on 23 March 2004. bill, just to recap, proposes a range of ex- I move government amendment (1) on sheet panded independent oversight functions in RC238: relation to Australia Post which it proposes should be exercised by the ACA. The effect (1) Schedule 1, item 22, page 12 (line 24) to of the opposition amendments would be that page 13 (line 22), omit section 56A, substitute: some of the proposed roles of the ACA
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22997
56A Recovery of costs incurred by the (5) If: ACA and the ACCC (a) in the previous financial year, the Minister may estimate costs for financial Minister directed Australia Post to year pay an amount to the ACA; and (1) The Minister may, during a financial (b) the Minister determines that the year: ACA’s actual costs for that previous (a) estimate the ACA’s and the ACCC’s financial year fall short of the costs costs for that financial year; and the Minister estimated for the ACA that year; (b) notify Australia Post of the Minister’s estimate. the amount the Minister may direct Australia Post to pay to the ACA under Minister may determine actual costs for subsection (3) is reduced by that previous financial year shortfall. (2) The Minister may, in a financial year, (6) The ACA must, as soon as practicable, determine the ACA’s and the ACCC’s bank any amount it receives under actual costs for the previous financial subsection (3) in an official account year. within the meaning of the Financial Minister may direct Australia Post to pay Management and Accountability Act adjusted estimated costs to ACA and ACCC 1997. (3) The Minister may, in a financial year, Adjustment for ACCC direct Australia Post: (7) If: (a) to pay to the ACA, on behalf of the (a) in the previous financial year, the Commonwealth, the Minister’s Minister directed Australia Post to estimate of the ACA’s costs for that pay an amount to the ACCC; and financial year, adjusted in accordance with subsection (4) or (b) the Minister determines that the (5); and ACCC’s actual costs for that previous financial year exceed the (b) to pay to the ACCC, on behalf of costs the Minister estimated for the the Commonwealth, the Minister’s ACCC that year; estimate of the ACCC’s costs for that financial year, adjusted in the amount the Minister may direct accordance with subsection (7) or Australia Post to pay to the ACCC (8). under subsection (3) is increased by that excess. Adjustment for ACA (8) If: (4) If: (a) in the previous financial year, the (a) in the previous financial year, the Minister directed Australia Post to Minister directed Australia Post to pay an amount to the ACCC; and pay an amount to the ACA; and (b) the Minister determines that the (b) the Minister determines that the ACCC’s actual costs for that ACA’s actual costs for that previous previous financial year fall short of financial year exceed the costs the the costs the Minister estimated for Minister estimated for the ACA that the ACA that year; year; the amount the Minister may direct the amount the Minister may direct Australia Post to pay to the ACCC Australia Post to pay to the ACA under under subsection (3) is reduced by that subsection (3) is increased by that shortfall. excess.
CHAMBER 22998 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Note: Because the ACCC is a priation to deal with overpayments. The prescribed agency for the amendment is technical in nature and puts in purposes of the Financial place appropriate payment processes. As I Management and Account- said, it does not change the government’s ability Act 1997, its officials are objectives or intentions—or the operation of required to deal with amounts received under subsection (3) in the bill. It is disappointing that, because of accordance with that Act. the opposition’s anticonsumer stance, the parts of the bill relating to the ACA have Costs been opposed in this committee stage. (9) In this section: Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- ACA’s costs means the costs of the ACA in performing its postal functions. tralia) (11.04 a.m.)—by leave—I move op- position amendments R(12) to R(18) on ACCC’s costs means the costs of the sheet 4149: ACCC in performing its functions under this Act. R(12) Government amendment (1), heading to section 56A, omit “ACA and the”. costs means an amount that, in accordance with accrual-based R(13) Government amendment (1), paragraph accounting principles, is treated as a 56A(1)(a), omit “ACA’s and the”. cost. R(14) Government amendment (1), subsection The changes proposed in this amendment are 56A(2), omit “ACA’s and the”. minor and relate to the clarification and sim- R(15) Government amendment (1), heading to plification of payment processes. They do subsection 56A(3), omit “ACA and”. not change the government’s objectives or R(16) Government amendment (1), omit intentions, or indeed the operation of the bill. subsection 56A(3), substitute: The government proposes amendments to the (3) The Minister may, in a financial year, bill to clarify and simplify the mechanism direct Australia Post to pay to the that, in effect, provides for an annual levy to ACCC, on behalf of the Com- be imposed on Australia Post to fund the new monwealth, the Minister’s estimate postal roles of the ACA and the Australian of the ACCC’s costs for that financial Competition and Consumer Commission. year, adjusted in accordance with subsection (7) or (8). Currently the bill provides that the minis- R(17) Government amendment (1), omit ter may direct Australia Post to pay a levy to subsections 56A(4) to (6). the Commonwealth based on an estimation R(18) Government amendment (1), subsection of the cost to the ACA and the ACCC of car- 56A(9), omit the definition of ACA’s rying out their respective postal functions as costs. provided for by the bill for a financial year. As the minister outlined, government The purpose of the government’s amendment amendment (1) contains technical amend- is to ensure that the ACA and ACCC are able ments to proposed section 56A of the act. to collect this levy from Australia Post on The amendment provides for an annual levy behalf of the Commonwealth. The amend- to be imposed on Australia Post to fund the ment will also simplify an adjustment new roles of both the ACA and the ACCC as mechanism included in the bill by avoiding provided for in the bill. The amendment the need for a separate process for adjusting omits the former proposed section 56A and an underpayment or overpayment made by inserts a new proposed section 56A. The new Australia Post and creating a standing appro- proposed section 56A ensures that the ACA
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 22999 and ACCC are able to collect the levy from All of that has to have a benefit. That is Australia Post on behalf of the Common- what we keep coming back to: what is the wealth and, I am advised, obviates the need benefit? Despite all the various things the for a standing appropriation to deal with any government has asserted the ACA will do, it overpayment made by Australia Post to ei- certainly has not proven that there will be a ther the ACA or the ACCC. As the minister benefit for that sort of money. So the Democ- said, they are routine technical amendments rats are very pleased to be able to support and the opposition supports them. these amendments today and save Australia Opposition amendments R(12) to R(18) Post around $2½ million a year in addition to omit reference to the ACA with regard to the $2 million in the first year. We can think of recovery of cost provisions in proposed sec- lots of ways we would like to spend that tion 56A of the Australian Postal Corporation money but we are happy to leave the gov- Act 1989. Proposed section 56A allows the ernment to do that because it has a very large Commonwealth to recover costs from Aus- fiscal surplus to try to claw back. tralia Post in regard to the new ACA and In response to the minister’s comments in ACCC roles within Australia Post. While his previous contribution that the ACA has Labor support, for now, this section in regard had experience in dealing with the oversight to cost recovery for the ACCC, whose new of Telstra for over seven years, I suggest that, role we support, we do not support the cost if we are talking about the performance of recovery for the ACA’s role as we do not organisations, he compare the customer satis- support the new ACA role as outlined. Oppo- faction ratings of Telstra with the customer sition amendments R(12) to R(18) therefore satisfaction ratings of Australia Post. If they leave the new cost recovery arrangements are an indication of how effective the regula- intact for the ACCC while removing refer- tion and oversight provisions are, then the ence to the ACA. Auditor-General is doing a very good job. Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (11.06 Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for a.m.)—The Democrats will be supporting the the Arts and Sport) (11.08 a.m.)—I am in- amendments moved by the ALP. As I said trigued by the accounting arrangements of earlier, we are in the process of trying to save Senator Cherry. Apparently all these func- the government money wherever we can. I tions that are being proposed for the ACA think these amendments are particularly im- which he says will cost $3.5 million can be portant in doing that. It is worth noting the performed by the Auditor-General at no cost. evidence given by Australia Post to the Sen- Senator Cherry—Exactly. ate committee that the cost of ACA oversight Senator KEMP—I heard a grunt there. I would be $2 million up front to establish the do not know whether that was a yes or a no. model and roughly $2½ million per year in Is that what you are saying? Senator Cherry addition to that over the course of the com- has mounted his case on fiscal responsibility. ing years. In addition to that, of course, the He has argued against an increased role for cost of oversight by the ACCC would be the ACA, argued for an increased role for the $900,000 in the first year and $600,000 each Auditor-General and said that an increased year beyond that. So this bill is going to cost role for the ACA will cost millions of dollars, Australia Post roughly $3.5 million a year, but apparently there will be no additional which would be levied on an ongoing basis. cost to the Auditor-General. Is that right? Senator Cherry—Yes.
CHAMBER 23000 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Senator KEMP—That is Democrat ac- The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN—The counting again, I think. I warned the Senate question now is that government amendment about the Australian Democrats when they (1), as amended, be agreed to. get onto fiscal issues. We will not be support- Question agreed to. ing the amendments moved by the Labor Bill, as amended, agreed to. Party, for all the reasons that we have stated. We obviously have a fundamental difference Bill reported with amendments; report here on whether the appropriate oversight is adopted. by the ACA or by the Auditor-General. That Third Reading is a debate which has probably taken up too Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for much of the time of the Senate. We differ the Arts and Sport) (11.12 a.m.)—I move: from the Labor Party on this issue, for all the That this bill be now read a third time. reasons that I stated earlier. Therefore, Sena- tor Cherry, apart from making the obvious Question put. comment in relation to your accounting is- The Senate divided. [11.16 a.m.] sues—which I am sure you will respond to at (The President—Senator the Hon. Paul some later stage, preferably outside the Calvert) chamber—we will not be supporting the Ayes………… 39 amendments. Noes………… 28 Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (11.10 a.m.)—As I understand it, the ACA is pro- Majority……… 11 posing to spend $2 million to build a whole AYES new model to do an oversight function and Abetz, E. Allison, L.F. $2.5 million in every subsequent year to staff Barnett, G. Bartlett, A.J.J. the running of that model. We are saying that Boswell, R.L.D. Brandis, G.H. the model is unnecessary because it will col- Calvert, P.H. Chapman, H.G.P. lect a whole bunch of performance indica- Cherry, J.C. Colbeck, R. tors, data, statistics and whatever to do some- Coonan, H.L. Eggleston, A. thing which could just as effectively be done Ellison, C.M. Ferris, J.M. Fifield, M.P. Greig, B. through a more cost-effective process by the Heffernan, W. Humphries, G. Auditor-General. That is why we are saying Johnston, D. Kemp, C.R. it is unnecessary. You are going to raise a Knowles, S.C. Lees, M.H. whole army of public servants to gather all Lightfoot, P.R. Macdonald, I. this data to feed into this huge model that is Macdonald, J.A.L. Mason, B.J. going to be developed which will not neces- McGauran, J.J.J. * Murray, A.J.M. Patterson, K.C. Payne, M.A. sarily improve performance on the ground— Ridgeway, A.D. Santoro, S. because performance on the ground, accord- Scullion, N.G. Stott Despoja, N. ing to the customer satisfaction surveys, is Tchen, T. Tierney, J.W. actually very good. Troeth, J.M. Vanstone, A.E. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Watson, J.O.W. (Senator Marshall)—The question is that NOES opposition amendments R(12) to R(18) be Bishop, T.M. Bolkus, N. agreed to. Brown, B.J. Buckland, G. * Campbell, G. Carr, K.J. Question agreed to. Collins, J.M.A. Conroy, S.M.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23001
Cook, P.F.S. Crossin, P.M. ments Act, pending resolution of the detail Evans, C.V. Forshaw, M.G. now contained in this bill. Harradine, B. Hogg, J.J. Hutchins, S.P. Kirk, L. In making the provisions needed to bring Ludwig, J.W. Lundy, K.A. veterans’ matters into line, the opportunity Mackay, S.M. Marshall, G. has been taken to standardise processes, form Moore, C. Murphy, S.M. and language in the principal act. These Nettle, K. O’Brien, K.W.K. changes affect claims for most benefits, ad- Sherry, N.J. Stephens, U. vice, applications for review, changes of cir- Webber, R. Wong, P. cumstances, withdrawals and most other PAIRS communications between veterans and the Campbell, I.G. Ray, R.F. Department of Veterans’ Affairs. Therefore, Ferguson, A.B. Denman, K.J. the bill is purely technical, with significant Hill, R.M. Faulkner, J.P. housekeeping by way of simplification and Minchin, N.H. McLucas, J.E. standardisation. The bill is straightforward * denotes teller and non-controversial. It has been inevitable Question agreed to. and, to some extent, it is overdue. Bill read a third time. Electronic communication is, of course, VETERANS’ ENTITLEMENTS now the standard method of transacting AMENDMENT (ELECTRONIC business. It is quick, efficient and effective. DELIVERY) BILL 2004 The ex-service community as a whole may Second Reading not be online to the same extent as other sec- tions of the community, but ex-service or- Debate resumed from 29 March, on mo- ganisations certainly are. The BEST scheme tion by Senator Abetz: has had an important impact here, as it is That this bill be now read a second time. under that program that funding has been Senator MARK BISHOP (Western Aus- made available for computer hardware. tralia) (11.19 a.m.)—The Veter a ns’ Entitle- Without that assistance, it is doubtful ments Amendment (Electronic Delivery) Bill whether the take-up of technology would 2004 provides for the electronic receipt of have been nearly as high or, indeed, as effec- many communications within the Depart- tive. ment of Veterans’ Affairs, the Veterans’ Re- It must also be said that the development view Board, the Repatriation Medical Au- of the Compensation Claims Processing Sys- thority and the Specialist Medical Review tem, CCPS, in the Department of Veterans’ Council. It gives those electronic communi- Affairs is part of this electronic approach to cations legal status. At the same time, it claims assessment. For the information of the regularises and standardises format, language Senate, this is a computer based system and process. Until now, all communications which guides decision making through the with respect to claims and lodgment of legislation in testing all claims. Equally, the documents with DVA and its agencies have system is available to those making claims. been exempt from the provisions of the Elec- Therefore, they can provide the detail re- tronic Transactions Act. This act requires quired in the same format; hence the useful- that electronic communications with the ness of this added electronic connection. Not Commonwealth be given legal status unless only does the CCPS contain that decision- an exemption is granted. That exemption was making tree but also it is self-contained with given with respect to the Veterans’ Entitle-
CHAMBER 23002 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 respect to necessary references to the state- lost. We have had a grand plan called ments of principal and other important data- HealthKEYS, which is reassuring, but veter- bases. It is a very advanced approach to deci- ans are not holding their breath. sion making in a quite complex area of law. Put simply, evidence at recent committee As with all systems, of course, there is hearings suggests that the problem does not scope for human error. Many claims are still appear to be working a quick way to a solu- rejected and succeed on appeal. Often, tion. Even to this day, we hear from service though, this is due to new information, not people sent to Iraq that they have no idea of faulty decisions. This raises a most dramatic the type of vaccinations they receive. Indeed, contrast. Despite these wonders of the elec- it is only after prolonged questioning that tronic age, veterans’ details are still recorded some of the consequences of those vaccina- on paper. For those seeking to make claims tions appear to have been understood or real- for a service pension, war widow pension or ised. Some veterans simply say that their disability pension these records are critical. records cannot be found. I do not want to Unfortunately, they are also the greatest reopen the anthrax issue but it is a very im- weakness. Evidence given to the recent in- portant case in point. The whole history of quiry by the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence health care for veterans is littered with ex- and Trade Legislation Committee addressed periences where service people have little this particular problem in some detail. It is idea of what they have been exposed to. That accepted in this jurisdiction that records is a separate matter, but record keeping does made during wartime were and are often, remain at the heart of that particular prob- subsequent to the war, at risk, hence the lem. benefit of the doubt and hence the utility of We do recognise that there are, in fact, other sources of corroborative advice. There hundreds of thousands of files. They are all are special provisions in the legislation stored at different locations right around the which provide for this allowance. As well, country and access is not always easy. We the onus of proof of factual evidence is not also know that, although it is not necessary, with the claimant but with the department. freedom of information requests are the ma- These are considerable concessions. They jor retrieval tool. In short, claims for veter- are understandable where service has been ans’ entitlements are a big business. There rendered overseas in dire circumstances. It is are over 50,000 claims made each year. not understandable, however, in modern ser- These are for disability pensions, pension vice circumstances. Yet it is clear that the increases, service pensions and war widows’ state of defence personnel records is a sham- pensions. Each one requires access to a file. bles. This is the only conclusion which can It is only to be hoped that, at least for the be drawn from the evidence to date. Not only future, the electronic age matures in a hurry. are there multiple copies of files; there are The current chaos is indefensible. separate files for health and then there are This legislation is timely. It focuses on the separate health files for psychological re- real need to get this problem fixed, but it is cords maintained and kept in different much bigger than simple communication. It places. Veterans constantly complain that the is about the need to commit fully to the elec- files are incomplete. In some cases, they are tronic storage of documents and their re- totally missing. Even when there have been trieval. So far we have only had bits and recent attempts to store files electronically or pieces. Unfortunately, we will probably in photo form it is said that they have been
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23003 never get to the situation where the current fits the invaluable work that veteran advo- population of ex-service people might gain cates and ex-service organisations do. that benefit. The paperchase, we suspect, will We know that older Australians are stead- continue for decades into the future. ily increasing their Internet use. There has We all know that Department of Veterans’ been a 40 per cent growth in the number of Affairs has sought to take control of all re- people over the age of 65 using the Internet cords. The question is, however, whether it is since the start of 2001. Indeed, judging by adequately resourced to carry out the func- the amount and complexity of the electronic tion which it seeks to do. History shows that communications I receive from the veterans’ Defence is simply not good at looking after community, particularly in relation to some ex-service matters. All overheads such as this of their campaigns for better treatment from are regarded as marginal. It is only the sharp this government, I would say that many of end to Defence which seems to matter. We them are already adept at using the technol- will watch this saga as the transference oc- ogy quite extensively. We also know that curs and the bill becomes an act and is im- many older adults rely on informal sources— plemented in the department. The opposition family and friends, for example—or estab- support this bill. lished contacts such as doctors for informa- Senator BARTLETT (Queensland— tion. Many still prefer face-to-face personal Leader of the Australian Democrats) (11.27 interactions as, of course, do some people of a.m.)—The Veterans’ Entitlements Amend- any age. That aspect must not be lost. ment (Electronic Delivery) Bill 2004 enables Retirement, previous positive experience, the Department of Veterans’ Affairs to accept peer support and encouragement, and the electronic lodgment of documents. It pro- desire to extend their knowledge parameters vides for electronic and physical receipt of have all been major driving forces in the claims, application requests and other docu- Internet take-up of Australians, including ments relating to benefits paid. It is legisla- older Australians and veterans. Retired Aus- tion that the Democrats support. The need to tralians are increasingly motivated to go amend the Veterans Entitlements’ Act flows online and embrace the benefits of new tech- from the passage of the Electronic Transac- nology. This act, in effect, will enable them tions Act 1999, which facilitated the devel- to do that more commonly and more effec- opment of electronic commerce in Australia tively should they so wish. by broadly removing legal impediments that The idea of veterans—the veteran com- prevent a person from using electronic com- munity is perceived as being full of older munications to satisfy obligations under the people, but of course it includes some young law. people—being technophobes is simply not The Department of Veterans’ Affairs was realistic. Indeed, seniors are the strongest originally specifically excluded from that act growing group when it comes to the use of pending the development of procedures and online technology. However, some people do technology. It is certainly now well and truly not wish to use that technology, and they time, five years down the track, that the should have that option. fuller benefit of electronic communications It goes without saying that the Democrats with government and agencies is passed to insist that the department comply fully with veterans and their families and, indeed, bene- the information privacy principles under the Privacy Act with regard to electronic com-
CHAMBER 23004 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 munication and the collection, storage, use perhaps later this week, and now in a new and disclosure of personal information in its technical environment. It is pleasing to note possession. I think it is fair to say that, what- a recent report by the Commonwealth Om- ever your age, there is still greater distrust budsman that the number of complaints re- about the security of material and informa- ceived in the Defence jurisdiction has been tion that is transmitted electronically. We decreasing over the last few years and the need to ensure that everything is not only further comment by the Ombudsman that done but seen to be done to protect that secu- comparatively few complaints are received rity and privacy. Electronic information is no about the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. I less valuable than paper records and is in trust this is a reflection of the increased stan- many ways more efficient in an administra- dards of service by the department and of the tive sense. There must be a secure environ- access by veterans and their families to well- ment and a reliable system, a secure mecha- established avenues of appeal within the nism, when people are seeking or providing portfolio and further rights of appeal to the personal information. Administrative Appeals Tribunal. We need to make sure that electronic I note that items within this bill extend communication options do not inhibit open, electronic means of communication to re- direct verbal communication—telephone quests for review. Certainly it is our hope communication—by veterans and their fami- that this further means will support and en- lies with the department. Despite the high hance the practice of veterans exercising take-up of the Department of Veterans’ Af- their full rights of review and appeal. There fairs 1300 and 1800 telephone numbers, will inevitably be problems. As always, part many veterans still tell my office that they of the task of all members of the parliament would prefer to have an individual staff con- representing their constituents—certainly the tact point. So we need to ensure that elec- Senate—is monitoring the operation of the tronic communication and telephone options government to ensure that any problem areas complement the improvement in the delivery are scrutinised properly and that we continu- of services. We certainly need to have the ally strive to further improve standards of minister monitoring the performance of elec- service delivery. tronic communications against service char- We should always acknowledge that we ter standards. I am sure all of that will be owe the veteran community a special debt. done and I am sure we will hear about it very At present we have service personnel most quickly from the veteran community if there notably and controversially still in Iraq, but are problems with the broadening of the us- personnel are also serving, much less promi- age of electronic communications that will nently but just as importantly, in many other be enabled by the passage of this legislation. regions of the world. Today’s service men I would like to briefly take the opportu- and women are tomorrow’s veterans. We nity, as I often do when speaking to any leg- owe them the specific debt of ensuring that islation dealing with veterans’ affairs, to give we do not just give them a welcome home recognition on behalf of the Democrats to the parade but provide ongoing assistance and staff of the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, recognition of the service they have pro- who we know are dedicated and who operate vided. under the mantle of frequently changing leg- It is always worth reinforcing, and taking islation and regulations, such as we have the opportunity to state, that despite differing seen recently and such as we will see again
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23005 views about whether or not personnel should both the electronic and physical delivery of be in places like Iraq there is a close to documents to the Department of Veterans’ unanimous feeling of support amongst the Affairs. The bill contains a series of amend- Australian community—and certainly it is ments that will enable the electronic lodg- unanimous, as far as I am aware, in this par- ment of the documents required by the De- liament—for our personnel in the work they partment of Veterans’ Affairs and the provi- are doing. They have to operate under in- sion of benefits under the act. In providing struction from the government and they do for the electronic communication of claims, their job as effectively as possible. We ac- applications and other documents to the de- knowledge that and it should be reinforced partment, the amendments will not impact on every time we have the opportunity to debate the existing arrangements that provide for veterans’ legislation—even a bill like this, the physical delivery of those same claims, which in effect is technical legislation deal- applications and other documents. ing with what are seen as arcane matters to The government have demonstrated a do with lodging forms by the Internet and commitment to veterans and their families to other sorts of things. It is all about improving improve the repatriation system to ensure service, getting a better deal for veterans and that it continues to meet the needs of those ensuring that they are assisted and are able to who have served their country. The govern- access their entitlements as effectively as ment’s announcements last night are testi- possible. The fact that this bill provides a mony to our record in delivering certainty mechanism to do that is welcome and is the and security for the veteran and war widow reason the Democrats support it. community. Under the Howard government, Senator KEMP (Victoria—Minister for the overall spending on veterans’ affairs is the Arts and Sport) (11.35 a.m.)—Over the now a record $10.6 billion for 2004-05. The years Australia has developed a comprehen- passage of this bill provides for another step sive repatriation system to serve the veteran forward in the government’s ongoing pro- community. This government is committed gram to enhance service delivery to the vet- to taking opportunities to enhance repatria- eran community and builds on the govern- tion services to meet the changing needs of ment’s commitment to the use of new tech- our veterans and their dependants. The gov- nologies in service delivery. I commend the ernment provides a range of benefits to com- bill to the Senate. pensate veterans and their dependants for Question agreed to. injury, disability or death resulting from their Bill read a second time. service during wartime or other conflicts. The changes made by the Vet er a ns’ Entitle- Third Reading ments Amendment (Electronic Delivery) Bill Bill passed through its remaining stages 2004 will improve the efficiency of the de- without amendment or debate. livery of those benefits and other services AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE AND that are provided to veterans and their de- OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT pendants under the Veterans’ Entitlements BILL 2003 [2004] Act. Second Reading The bill is designed to achieve two pur- Debate resumed from 4 December 2003, poses: firstly, the unification of all the exist- on motion by Senator Hill: ing lodgment provisions in the Veterans’ En- titlements Act and, secondly, provision for That this bill be now read a second time.
CHAMBER 23006 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(Quorum formed) this requirement, the Australian Federal Po- Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (11.41 lice Commissioner will make determinations a.m.)—The Australian Federal Police and under section 24 of the Public Service Act Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2003 and section 27 of the Australian Federal Po- [2004] does two things: firstly, it completes lice Act 1979, preserving the remuneration the integration of the Australian Protective and employment conditions currently in Service, the APS, into the Australian Federal force under the section 170MX award cur- Police, the AFP; secondly, it enables the AFP rently applying to Australian Protective Ser- to investigate state offences that have a fed- vice employees. eral aspect. The integration of the APS into A number of issues surrounding the the AFP began some time ago in 2002, when merger of the two bodies were raised at the the APS became an operational division of Senate Legal and Constitutional Legislation the Australian Federal Police and the Austra- Committee inquiry into the bill, in which I lian Federal Police Commissioner replaced participated. As the bill raises fairly complex the Secretary of the Attorney-General’s De- issues of industrial law, the committee was partment as the agency head. The bill will assisted ably by the CPSU, representing APS complete the integration process of the two officers, the Australian Federal Police Asso- bodies—at least in terms of the legislative ciation and the Australian Government So- program—by bringing the protective service licitor. The Australian Federal Police and the officers, the PSOs, under the Australian Fed- Attorney-General’s Department also assisted eral Police Act 1979 and repealing the Aus- in the process. tralian Protective Service Act 1987. While The committee welcomed the fact that there are, I suspect, many operational issues employee representatives appeared to have that will still have to be finalised and gone been consulted more extensively on the de- through to ensure it becomes a seamless op- velopment of this bill than they had been in eration, our part in the process looks like it is the past. The committee inquiry presented an nearly complete. opportunity for outstanding concerns to be The integration of the Australian Federal raised. I will not take the time of the Senate Police and the APS has long had Labor’s to raise all the issues that were raised during support. Indeed, it was our commitment at the committee of inquiry or go through all of the 2001 election. The bill amends the Aus- the finer points. The committee of inquiry tralian Federal Police Act to create a new report I think deals adequately with the sub- category of AFP employee—as I said earlier, stantive issues. What I want to draw out are the protective service officer—and to confer those issues that the committee focused on the existing functions, powers and duties of and dealt with in a more substantive way. the APS on them. The Public Service Com- One of those issues was about employees missioner will make a determination under and the impact on employees transferring section 72 of the Public Service Act 1999 from the APS and their integration into the that APS officers cease to be Public Service Australian Federal Police. As I mentioned employees and become employees of the earlier, the bill uses the machinery in the Australian Federal Police. Under that sec- Public Service Act and the Australian Fed- tion, the transferred employees will be enti- eral Police Act to confer a transfer of the tled to remuneration and employment condi- employment conditions currently in force tions no less favourable than those they en- under the section 170MX award. The com- joyed before the transfer. To give effect to
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23007 mittee recognised the desirability of all AFP little extension of faith sometimes to ensure staff being employed under an integrated that all of these things do work out in the employment framework to provide opera- end. Hopefully they will, and I understand tional cohesion to the newly integrated that we will have an opportunity to revisit agency. However, the committee was trou- that. bled by the uncertainty faced by Australian It emerged from the evidence given by the Protective Service transferees in the transi- CPSU representing transferring Australian tional period. Until a new certified agree- Protective Service officers that there is still ment is negotiated to cover the integrated concern on the part of these officers about work force, the employees, we were told their capacity to maintain their safety net of during the committee of inquiry, will be in a remuneration and conditions and to access position where they have terms not less fa- independent review of AFP decisions that vourable than they are currently under— affect employment arrangements during this which is the 170MX award. transitional period. There was a strong con- The 170MX award has its own history. cern that the Australian Federal Police would Perhaps I might be doing it a little injustice be given a free hand to make unilateral deci- but, in short, what occurred during the whole sions altering remuneration and conditions process was that the parties—the Attorney- and that those affected would not be able to General and the Australian Protective Ser- seek review of those decisions by the rele- vice employees and their representatives— vant independent authority. In the Australian were unable to reach a certified agreement Federal Police this authority is a board of and, as a consequence, it went to the Indus- reference constituted under the Workplace trial Relations Commission where, subse- Relations Act. It is not fair to APS transfer- quently, a 170MX award was made. At the ees to face such uncertainty, in my view, and next juncture I expect that the parties will be it is plainly against the national interest for able to sit down and negotiate a fresh certi- people tasked with such a critical protective fied agreement to cover the terms and condi- security role to experience such a fundamen- tions of employment. It will be open to the tal insecurity in their employment arrange- parties to determine the conditions that might ments. prevail during that process. On these issues, the committee made two I and other members of the committee relevant recommendations. Firstly, the gov- thought there was a period when there may ernment should clarify that there are no legal be a little uncertainty surrounding the issue. obstacles to the conferral of jurisdiction on It would require the Australian Federal Po- the board of reference to discuss and settle lice to ensure that their statements and their disputes over the remuneration and condi- position were quite definite so that employ- tions of APS transferees and, secondly, in the ees’ terms and conditions and other matters light of these concerns about the employ- surrounding the terms and conditions were ment of APS transferees the AFP should re- clearly articulated to them and they had con- port back to the committee within 12 months fidence in the Australian Federal Police deal- on the progress of the integration. I will be ing with all of those matters. I have that con- listening closely to what the minister has to fidence in the Australian Federal Police say about these issues at the end of this de- through their commissioner. But when you bate when he rises to sum up, and if neces- have heard from the various parties during sary I will pursue the matter further in the the committee of inquiry it does require a committee stage.
CHAMBER 23008 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
In respect of the investigation of state of- that amalgamation at various times. In par- fences by the Australian Federal Police, I ticular, we believe the government has been should simply record Labor’s support for the very tardy in working towards the comple- second aspect of this bill, which is to enable tion of this process. It has now been a very the AFP to investigate state offences that long time since the introduction of the initial have a federal aspect. This refers to a situa- legislation for the amalgamation of these two tion where either, firstly, the subject matter agencies. We Democrats have also expressed of the offence is a subject on which the concerns about specific legislative provisions Commonwealth has the constitutional power at different times throughout the process. For to legislate or, secondly, the investigation of example, during debate on the Australian a state offence is incidental to the investiga- Protective Service Amendment Bill in this tion of a federal or territory offence. This place last year, we expressed concerns re- measure gives effect to a resolution of the garding the frisk powers invested in APS April 2002 Leaders Summit on Terrorism officers. We felt that there were a number of and Multijurisdictional Crime. It remedies ambiguities arising from the way in which the potential duplication of police resources these provisions were drafted and we suc- that presently arises where the AFP and state cessfully amended them with the support of police services need to investigate different both the government and opposition. We also aspects of the same criminal conduct. expressed concerns about the implications of Clearly, it has our support. the bill on the right to silence and the privi- Senator GREIG (Western Australia) lege against self-incrimination as well as (11.51 a.m.)—I rise to speak to the Austra- freedom of political communication. Again, lian Federal Police and Other Legislation we sought to amend the bill to address those Amendment Bill 2003 [2004] before us this particular concerns. morning. The bill implements the final stage In the context of this legislation, the main of the integration of the Australian Federal issues arising from the inquiry conducted by Police and the Australian Protective Service. the Senate’s Legal and Constitutional Legis- We Democrats note that the AFP already has lation Committee related to the transitional fiscal and legal responsibility for the APS. employment arrangements which will apply However, the two agencies continue to oper- to APS officers. The union—the CPSU— ate under separate legislative and employ- argued that there was some doubt as to ment arrangements. This bill goes to the whether the AFP would maintain the current heart of that and deals primarily with transi- conditions that apply to APS officers. On the tional employment arrangements. The bill other hand, the Australian Federal Police will also invest with the AFP the proper Association argued that the machinery of power to investigate state offences that may government changes—that is their term— have a federal aspect—namely, offences that provision in the Public Service Act contains come within the constitutional power of the sufficient protections for the entitlements of Commonwealth or where the investigation of transferred APS officers. So we Democrats a state offence is incidental to the investiga- look forward to the committee stage during tion of a Commonwealth offence. which senators will have more of an oppor- We Democrats have previously indicated tunity to tease out some of those issues with that we do not oppose the amalgamation of the minister. the AFP and the APS, although we have I foreshadow that the Democrats will be stated our concerns relating to the process of moving an amendment, circulated in the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23009 name of Senator Bartlett, to ensure that the Australian families continue to struggle with police commissioner cannot be dismissed for the difficulties of the competing demands of expressing an honestly held opinion if he or work and family commitments. The Democ- she believes that it is in the public interest to rats will be taking a range of carefully tar- communicate that opinion, whether publicly geted work and family initiatives to this or privately. I will explain the purpose and year’s election as part of an ongoing com- intention of that amendment at the appropri- mitment to achieving work and family bal- ate stage. ance for all Australians, but I think the ex- Finally, I would like to take the opportu- ample and illustration we have here today nity to acknowledge that the AFP recently with the AFP is a commendable benchmark received the award for the most outstanding and, again, I congratulate them for that. large business in the National Work and Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— Family Awards. In achieving this recogni- Minister for Justice and Customs) (11.57 tion, the AFP competed against a consider- a.m.)—We have before us a bill which, al- able number of private sector businesses as though it may not be known to many, is well as other government departments. Other nonetheless important. The Australian Fed- finalists included the ANZ Bank, the Na- eral Police and Other Legislation Amend- tional Australia Bank, Aurora Industries, the ment Bill 2003 [2004] deals with the integra- John James Memorial Hospital in the ACT, tion of the two services of the Australian Minter Ellison, Monash University, Educa- Federal Police and the Australian Protective tion Queensland, St John of God Hospital in Service. It consolidates and enhances Austra- my home state of Western Australia and the lia’s national security framework and contin- University of South Australia. I take this op- ues the government’s efforts toward protect- portunity to congratulate the AFP on becom- ing all Australians from terrorist attacks and ing the first law enforcement agency to re- honouring our obligation under international ceive that gold award. Congratulations to law to protect foreign diplomatic and consu- them. The Australian Federal Police Associa- lar officials and their premises. I must say at tion web site notes: the outset that I have recently been in the The Awards, presented by the Australian Chamber Solomon Islands and I have travelled to of Commerce and Industry and the Business places such as East Timor where I have seen Council of Australia, recognise significant initia- excellent work being done by the Australian tives taken by business to help employees balance Federal Police and the Australian Protective work and family. Service working side by side. I note that the most recent AFP certified We have had a two-stage approach to in- agreement introduced seven weeks recrea- tegrating both organisations, and this has tion leave and more flexible working hours allowed the Australian Protective Service to for all AFP employees. We Democrats have a continue to deliver a range of services for longstanding commitment to achieving a which it is funded and contracted without better work-life balance in all Australian disruption. It has allowed for detailed con- workplaces, and we believe the Common- sideration of relevant workplace relations wealth government needs to take more re- and commercial, financial and organisational sponsibility towards achieving that. Whilst issues. It has also allowed for full consulta- agencies such as the AFP have done an out- tion and negotiations with employees of both standing job on this front, many other Aus- organisations about the integration, and I tralian workplaces are lagging behind. Many think that this has to be remembered. This
CHAMBER 23010 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 was not something that was going to happen ply. These amendments will allow the Aus- overnight; we did not say that it would. It tralian Federal Police to investigate that was the bringing together of two organisa- without having to bring in state police and tions with personnel serving under different duplicate resources. This proposal is much arrangements. It was therefore necessary to more efficient in allowing the Australian take time to get it right. I notice that a CPSU Federal Police to simply deal with the matter publication on their web site stated: that is under investigation. This is a very AFP have shown strong commitment to ensure all important step forward for the Australian bases are covered with regard to APS transfer Federal Police, and I certainly would regard issues, having just engaged in lengthy, compre- this as a key recommendation to come from hensive and constructive negotiations, with the the leaders summit. CPSU, over this conciliated settlement. I would also like to take this opportunity I think that that spells out from one of the to record my thanks to the Senate Legal and key stakeholders in this integration the ap- Constitutional Legislation Committee for its proach that has been adopted in relation to consideration of the bill in a very short time consultation. If it took a bit longer, so be it, frame. It has been important that we get this as long as we got it right—and we consulted bill up and running, and I am obliged to the with the people concerned to ensure that that committee for its efforts in that regard. The was so. government will be moving a number of The integration of the APS with the AFP amendments to the bill during the committee is one part of a much broader government stage. A number of these government approach to maximising the effectiveness of amendments stem from consideration of the Commonwealth counter-terrorism and trans- bill by the Senate legal and constitutional national crime resources. It is a win-win for committee, including some minor technical both organisations and the Australian public matters identified in the Bills Digest No. 78 generally. This integration will allow the of 2003-04, while others are based on further Australian Federal Police Commissioner to advice received by the government to ensure ensure the closest possible cooperation be- the resolution of the leaders summit is fully tween protective service officers and police implemented. officers when conducting joint operations The government has accepted the recom- and providing protective security services. mendations made by the Senate Legal and The amendments in the bill also imple- Constitutional Legislation Committee in its ment an important resolution of the leaders report on this bill. The committee’s first rec- summit in April 2002. Federal, state and ter- ommendation was that the bill should be ritory leaders made a commitment then to agreed to. The second recommendation enable the AFP to investigate state offences sought advice on whether there would be any incidental to multijurisdictional crime. These legal obstacles to the conferral of jurisdiction amendments allow the Australian Federal on the board of reference to settle disputes Police to access federal investigative powers over the remuneration and conditions of APS to investigate state offences with a federal transferees. Upon examination of this issue it aspect. I will give you an example. You became clear that, given the AFP board of might have a case where there is importation reference was provided for under the current of illicit drugs from overseas and during the AFP certified agreement, it would have no course of that there is the commission of a application to APS transferees at the time of state offence such as a domestic sale or sup- transfer. However, advice received by the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23011
AFP following consultation before the Aus- great work that the Australian Protective tralian Industrial Relations Commission Service is doing as well. What people might made it clear that the disputes procedures set not realise is that the APS is responsible for out in the Workplace Relations Act will ap- the air security officer program, a crucial ply in their entirety to APS transferees. The program involved in aviation security. Peo- third recommendation was that the AFP re- ple might not be realise that the APS is in- port back to the committee within 12 months volved in the counter-terrorism first response on the progress of the integration, and this at our major airports, and we have seen that has also been accepted. increased from 240-odd personnel to 400 The government amendments will also fi- personnel. The APS is also involved in the netune the amendments in schedule 3 of the protection of diplomatic posts, and of course bill which implement the resolution of the that is an essential part of Australia’s interna- Leaders Summit on Terrorism and Multi- tional obligations. Importantly, we have seen jurisdictional Crime. I referred to these pre- the APS overseas working side by side with viously. They are amendments which merely the AFP. I saw the great work they were do- ensure that the AFP can use all of its existing ing together in the Bali bombing investiga- powers to investigate the state offences with tion and under difficult circumstances. a federal aspect, as I referred to earlier. The The work of the Australian Federal Police bill, as introduced, provides for this in rela- is exceptional. I believe it has world’s best tion to Crimes Act powers but does not pick practice in policing and is regarded interna- up some powers that are in the Australian tionally as one of the finest national police Federal Police Act. These concern the use of forces in the world today. Its range of obliga- listening devices—which hopefully later this tions and duties flows from counter-terrorism year, with the passage of the Surveillance at one end of the spectrum through to the Devices Bill 2004, will be replaced by sur- investigation of domestic organised crime veillance devices—and some residual con- which involves all manner of criminal activ- stable powers. The amendments also clarify ity, be it drug trafficking, people-smuggling, constitutional aspects of the proposal. sex trafficking, paedophilia or fraud—the The complete integration of the Australian Australian High Tech Crime Centre is an Federal Police and the Australian Protective example of the fine work that the Australian Service is an important step in the govern- Federal Police is doing in that regard—and it ment’s efforts to protect Australians from carried out magnificent work in relation to terrorist attacks and to consolidate and en- the investigation of the Bali bombing. hance national security initiatives. This One of the most outstanding aspects of the brings together two fine organisations which Australian Federal Police is perhaps the rec- have been acting independently of each other ognition that it gets internationally and the previously. By bringing them together, we fact that it is represented in more than 25 maximise resources, we increase efficiency countries overseas. As a result of these rela- and we also provide career paths for those tionships, it is able to gain intelligence in involved in those two organisations which I order to not only serve Australia’s national believe hitherto were not there. interest but also interdict criminal activity I want to place on record the govern- which could result in the illegal importation ment’s appreciation of the great work the of drugs and other prohibited imports into Australian Federal Police is doing and the this country. The fine work that the Austra- lian Federal Police has done in relation to the
CHAMBER 23012 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 war on drugs is on record, and this is an issue on 30 March 2004. There are 45 government which all Australians are concerned about. amendments which can be conveniently di- I will finish by saying that recently the vided into two groups. First I will move AFP was awarded recognition for work life amendments (1) to (5), by leave. I fore- diversity. Providing a family friendly and shadow to the committee that I will then flexible work environment in a rapidly move government amendments (6) to (45), evolving organisation has won the Australian by leave, after the consideration of these Federal Police the top prize in the national amendments, as the two groups conveniently work and family awards of the Australian deal with two separate parts of the bill. I seek Chamber of Commerce and Industry and the leave to move government amendments (1) Business Council of Australia. This gold to (5) together. award is the highest award for outstanding Leave granted. achievement in providing for the work life Senator ELLISON—I move: needs of employees, while the large business (1) Clause 2, page 3 (table item 11, 1st column), award recognises the most outstanding appli- omit “9 to 11”, substitute “9 to 13”. cant with more than 500 employees. To win (2) Clause 2, page 3 (table item 12), omit the the large business award the AFP was se- table item. lected from a strong field of over 70 private (3) Clause 2, page 4 (table item 13), omit the and public sector organisations and received table item. the top prize from a field of the top 30 appli- cants. This recognises in particular the fine (4) Schedule 1, item 58, page 33 (line 4), omit “authority of the Commonwealth”, work done by the Australian Federal Police substitute “Commonwealth authority”. Commissioner, Mick Keelty, in not just ad- dressing the workplace practices of the AFP (5) Schedule 2, item 12, page 35 (lines 23 to 27), omit the item, substitute: but also going further and looking beyond the officer in the field to those aspects which 12 Paragraph 5(m) support that officer such as home life and the Omit “Australian Protective Service pastoral care that is needed for the men and Act 1987”, substitute “Australian women of the Australian Federal Police and Federal Police Act 1979”. the APS. I commend the AFP and Commis- The government amendments address issues sioner Keelty for the attention that they have which were raised with the Senate Legal and given to the personnel serving within those Constitutional Legislation Committee during two organisations and long may it continue. I its consideration of the bill. They also ad- commend this bill to the Senate. dress some minor technical matters identified in the Bills Digest No. 78 of 2003-04. Question agreed to. Bill read a second time. As I said earlier, there are 45 government amendments. This first group of amend- In Committee ments, Nos (1) to (5), amend schedules 1 and Bill—by leave—taken as a whole. 2 of the bill to correct some minor drafting Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— errors identified in the Bills Digest. For ex- Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.09 ample, the fourth amendment will amend p.m.)—I table a supplementary explanatory item 58 in schedule 1 of the bill as intro- memorandum relating to the government duced to omit the definition of ‘authority of amendments to be moved to this bill. The the Commonwealth’ and replace it with a memorandum was circulated in the chamber definition of ‘Commonwealth authority’ to
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23013 ensure that it is consistent with proposed (a) they potentially fall within paragraph 69E(1)(a) of the bill. Amendment Commonwealth legislative power (5) will substitute a new item 12 in schedule because of the elements of the State 2 of the bill as introduced to avoid an out-of- offence; or date reference to the Australian Protective (b) they potentially fall within Service Act continuing to appear in the Pas- Commonwealth legislative power senger Movement Charge Collection Act. because of the circumstances in which the State offence was These amendments are technical and I com- committed (whether or not those mend them to the committee. circumstances are expressed to be Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (12.11 acts or omissions involved in p.m.)—For the record I can indicate that the committing the offence); or opposition supports those amendments. They (c) the Australian Federal Police appear to be minor corrections that are re- investigating them is incidental to quired and we encourage the government to the Australian Federal Police proofread their documents better in the investigating an offence against a course of these things. law of the Commonwealth or a Territory. Senator GREIG (Western Australia) (8) Schedule 3, item 1, page 37 (line 11), omit (12.12 p.m.)—Likewise, we Democrats will “paragraph 8(1)(baa)”, substitute “this Act”. be supporting the amendments. (9) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 17), after Question agreed to. “if”, insert “the conduct constituting the Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— State offence”. Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.12 (10) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 18), omit p.m.)—I seek leave to move government “the State offence”. amendments (6) to (45). (11) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 22), omit Leave granted. “the State offence was committed”, substitute “was engaged in”. Senator ELLISON—I move: (12) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 24), omit (6) Schedule 3, page 37 (before line 7), before “the State offence was committed”, item 1, insert: substitute “was engaged in”. 1A Subsection 4(1) (13) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 26), omit Insert: “the State offence”. federal aspect, in relation to an offence (14) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 28), omit against a law of a State or of the “the State offence”. Australian Capital Territory, has the (15) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 29), omit meaning given by subsection 4AA(1). “the State offence”. Note: This subsection defines State to (16) Schedule 3, item 1, page 38 (line 34), omit include the Northern Territory. “the State offence”. (7) Schedule 3, item 1, page 37 (before line 10), (17) Schedule 3, item 1, page 39 (line 3), omit before subsection (1), insert: “the State offence”. Object (18) Schedule 3, item 1, page 39 (line 3), omit (1A) The object of this section is to identify “Australia.”, substitute “Australia; or”. State offences that have a federal (19) Schedule 3, item 1, page 39 (after line 3), at aspect because: the end of subsection (3), add:
CHAMBER 23014 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(i) relates to a matter in respect of law of a State or of the Australian which an international agreement to Capital Territory. which Australia is a party imposes Note 1: Subsection 4(1) defines State to obligations to which effect could be include the Northern Territory. given by the creation of an offence Note 2: Section 4AA has the effect that against the domestic laws of the an offence against a law of the parties to the agreement; or Australian Capital Territory is a (j) relates to a matter that affects the State offence that has a federal relations between Australia and aspect. another country or countries or is (23) Schedule 3, page 40 (before line 7), before otherwise a subject of international item 4, insert: concern. 3A Subsection 3(1) (20) Schedule 3, item 1, page 39 (after line 17), after the definition of Commonwealth place, Insert: insert: federal aspect, in relation to an offence conduct has the same meaning as in the against a law of a State or of the Criminal Code. Australian Capital Territory, has the meaning given by subsection 3AA(1). (21) Schedule 3, item 1, page 39 (after line 28), after the definition of electronic Note: This subsection defines State to communication, insert: include the Northern Territory. engage in conduct has the same (24) Schedule 3, item 6, page 41 (before line 2), meaning as in the Criminal Code. before subsection (1), insert: State includes the Australian Capital Object Territory and the Northern Territory. (1A) The object of this section is to identify (22) Schedule 3, page 40 (after line 5), after item State offences that have a federal 3, insert: aspect because: 3A After subparagraph 9(1)(c)(iv) (a) they potentially fall within Commonwealth legislative power Insert: because of the elements of the State (iva) the investigation of State offence; or offences that have a federal (b) they potentially fall within aspect; Commonwealth legislative power 3B Section 12B (at the end of the because of the circumstances in definition of general offence) which the State offence was Add: committed (whether or not those ; or (c) a State offence that has a federal circumstances are expressed to be aspect. acts or omissions involved in committing the offence); or 3C At the end of Division 2 of Part II (c) the Australian Federal Police Add: investigating them is incidental to 12M Concurrent operation of State and the Australian Federal Police Territory laws investigating an offence against a The application of this Division in law of the Commonwealth or a relation to State offences that have a Territory. federal aspect is not intended to limit or (25) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 5), after exclude the concurrent operation of any “if”, insert “the conduct constituting the State offence”.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23015
(26) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 6), omit (38) Schedule 3, item 6, page 43 (after line 18), “the State offence”. at the end of subsection (5), add: (27) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 10), omit Note: Subsection 3(1) defines State to “the State offence was committed”, include the Northern Territory. substitute “was engaged in”. (39) Schedule 3, page 43 (after line 18), after (28) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 12), omit item 6, insert: “the State offence was committed”, 6A Subsection 3C(1) (paragraph (b) of substitute “was engaged in”. the definition of offence) (29) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 14), omit Omit “other than the Australian Capital “the State offence”. Territory”. (30) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 16), omit (40) Schedule 3, page 43 (after line 21), after “the State offence”. item 7, insert: (31) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 17), omit 7A Subsection 3D(3) “the State offence”. Repeal the subsection. (32) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 22), omit 7B Subsection 3D(4) “the State offence”. Omit “another”, substitute “a”. (33) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 27), omit “the State offence”. (41) Schedule 3, item 8, page 43 (line 26), at the (34) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (line 27), omit end of subsection (6), add “or of the Australian Capital Territory”. “Australia.”, substitute “Australia; or”. (42) Schedule 3, item 8, page 43 (after line 26), (35) Schedule 3, item 6, page 42 (after line 27), at the end of subsection (3), add: at the end of subsection (6), add: (i) relates to a matter in respect of Note 1: Subsection 3(1) defines State to include the Northern Territory. which an international agreement to which Australia is a party imposes Note 2: Section 3AA has the effect that obligations to which effect could be an offence against the law of given by the creation of an offence the Australian Capital Territory against the domestic laws of the is a State offence that has a parties to the agreement; or federal aspect. (j) relates to a matter that affects the (43) Schedule 3, page 44 (after line 24), after relations between Australia and item 13, insert: another country or countries or is 13A Subsection 23WA(1) (definition of otherwise a subject of international offence) concern. Omit “the Australian Capital Territory (36) Schedule 3, item 6, page 43 (after line 6), or any other Territory”, substitute “a after the definition of Commonwealth place, Territory other than the Australian insert: Capital Territory”. conduct has the same meaning as in the 13B Subsection 23WA(1) (at the end of Criminal Code. the definition of offence) (37) Schedule 3, item 6, page 43 (after line 17), Add: after the definition of electronic Note: Subsection 3(1) provides that communication, insert: Territory does not include the engage in conduct has the same Northern Territory. meaning as in the Criminal Code. State includes the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory.
CHAMBER 23016 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(44) Schedule 3, item 16, page 45 (line 8), at the prescribes the powers and duties of AFP offi- end of section 23YUL, add “or of the cers, will ensure consistency with the exist- Australian Capital Territory”. ing amendment in the bill to section 8 of the (45) Schedule 3, item 16, page 45 (after line 8), Australian Federal Police Act, which pre- at the end of section 23YUL, add: scribes the functions of the AFP. The bill Note 1: Subsection 3(1) defines State to amends section 8 to add the function of the include the Northern Territory. investigation of state offences that have a Note 2: Section 3AA has the effect that federal aspect. The relevant government an offence against a law of the amendment to the bill will amend section 9 Australian Capital Territory is a of the Australian Federal Police Act to clarify State offence that has a federal that an Australian Federal Police member has aspect. the powers and duties that are conferred or This second group of amendments is to items imposed on a constable or an officer of po- in schedule 3 of the bill as introduced and lice in the place in which the member is act- will ensure that the legislative aspects of the ing when investigating state offences with a leaders summit resolution and the joint federal aspect. working group recommendations to allow The government amendments also include the AFP to investigate state offences which minor improvements to the definition of are ancillary to federal offences are fully im- ‘state offence that has a federal aspect’. plemented. These amendments clarify that the conduct These amendments—and I will deal with rather than the elements of an offence deter- them as a whole—will enable the Australian mine whether it is a state offence with a fed- Federal Police to access the listening devices eral aspect. This definition of ‘state offence provisions in part II, division 2 of the Austra- that has a federal aspect’ will also be aimed lian Federal Police Act 1979 when investi- at including a specific reference to the exter- gating state offences with a federal aspect. nal affairs power. A state offence has a fed- Listening device powers are an integral part eral aspect if, assuming that the parliament of the Australian Federal Police’s investiga- of the Commonwealth had enacted a provi- tion powers and should be amended consis- sion that created an offence penalising the tently with the amendments to the investiga- specific acts or omissions involved in com- tive powers contained in the Crimes Act. The mitting the state offence, that provision had existing restrictions on the types of offences been a valid law of the Commonwealth. A for which listening device warrants are state offence is taken to be covered by this available will also apply to state offences provision if it falls within one of the speci- with a federal aspect. Under the proposed fied areas of Commonwealth constitutional amendments the AFP can only access a war- power. rant for the use of listening devices when The government amendments include the investigating a state offence with a federal addition of the external affairs powers, one aspect where that state offence also has the of the specified areas of the Common- characteristics of one of the serious offences wealth’s constitutional power. A state offence that falls within the existing definition of a would be a state offence with a federal aspect class 1 general offence or a class 2 general where the conduct constituting the state of- offence. fence is a matter in respect of which an in- The government amendments to section 9 ternational agreement to which Australia is a of the Australian Federal Police Act, which party imposes obligations to which effect
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23017 could be given by the creation of an offence would enable the Australian Federal Police against the domestic laws of the parties to to use the listening device powers in part II, the agreement and is a matter that affects the division 2 of the Australian Federal Police relations between Australia and another Act when investigating state offences with a country or countries or is otherwise a subject federal aspect. This is broadly consistent of international concern. The remaining with the proposed provisions of the Surveil- amendments correct a discrepancy in termi- lance Devices Bill, which is currently before nology to ensure that a state offence that has a Senate committee. Labor has already indi- a federal aspect includes an ACT offence that cated in the House its in principle support for has a federal aspect. Schedule 3 of the bill as the cross-jurisdictional character of that bill. introduced provides that a state offence that Accordingly we support this amendment. has a federal aspect includes a Northern Ter- Proposed amendments (6) to (22) also clarify ritory offence but not an ACT offence. when an Australian Federal Police member These amendments follow on from others has the powers and duties conferred or im- in relation to the leaders summit, as I stated posed on a state constable or police officer earlier. They clarify aspects of it and improve when investigating state offences with a fed- on the operation of this ability of the Austra- eral aspect. We see no apparent difficulty lian Federal Police to investigate a state of- with this and are prepared to support these fence which has a federal aspect, and I pre- amendments as well. I will also take the op- viously outlined an example which could be portunity to associate myself with the re- dealt with under these provisions. This has marks by Senator Ellison praising the Aus- its genesis in the leaders summit of April tralian Federal Police and Commissioner 2002. That put forward, I believe, historic Keelty in their work, and also with Senator recommendations for law enforcement in this Greig’s recognition of the Australian Federal country so that our states and territories Police awards. would not offer any haven for criminals op- Senator GREIG (Western Australia) erating in an organised fashion, especially (12.20 p.m.)—Again, we Democrats will be across state and territory borders. It also pro- supporting the amendments for the reasons vided for efficiencies such as this. It makes outlined by the minister. commonsense that the Australian Federal Question agreed to. Police have this ability to investigate a state Senator GREIG (Western Australia) offence which has a federal aspect rather (12.20 p.m.)—I move Democrat amendment than calling in state police and having two (1) on sheet 4210 circulated in the name of policemen working on one matter which, Senator Bartlett: really, one policeman could deal with quite easily. It has, of course, the support of the (1) Schedule 1, page 24 (after line 11), after states and territories. I commend these item 27, insert: amendments to the committee. 27A After subsection 22(1) Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (12.18 Insert: p.m.)—As with the first amendments, the (1A) For the purposes of subsection (1), opposition fully supports these amendments. misbehaviour does not include the They concern, in part, some issues which are expression of an honestly held opinion by the Commissioner or a Deputy technical, and the majority appear to be ad- Commissioner, if the Commissioner or dressing some drafting errors. There are two Deputy Commissioner believes that it significant ones. Proposed amendment (22)
CHAMBER 23018 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
is in the public interest to issued a statement which was described as communicate that opinion, whether clarifying his views. Mr Keelty said that his publicly or privately. remarks had been taken out of context. Alle- This amendment goes to the heart of what gations then emerged that the Prime Minis- we might loosely call public interest com- ter’s chief of staff had rung Mr Keelty mentary. What we are aiming to do here is shortly after the televising of that interview target the recent uncomfortable political is- to rebuke him for making the comments. It sue which rose between the Prime Minister was also alleged that the Prime Minister’s and the commissioner. The amendment arises office was directly involved in the drafting of out of that incident involving Commissioner Mr Keelty’s statement of clarification. Keelty. What emerged from that scenario We Democrats firmly believe that the po- was that the government had seemingly ex- lice commissioner, whoever they might be, erted what we believe was inappropriate should have the freedom to express genu- pressure on Mr Keelty regarding some com- inely held views if it is in the public interest ments he had made about terrorist risks dur- for those views to be expressed. In this case, ing a television interview in which he was the commissioner was making remarks re- talking freely on a range of issues. In exert- garding things that were directly relevant, we ing that pressure on the commissioner, we believe, to the risk of terrorism within the believe that the government not only inter- Australian community. If Spain had been put fered with his independence but, arguably, at a greater risk of terrorist attack because of abused its executive power. its involvement in the Iraq war, then it was To recap briefly on the circumstances of highly likely, and it remains highly likely, that situation, Mr Keelty was interviewed on that Australia faces an increased risk of ter- the Sunday morning program on 14 March rorism here too. Mr Keelty’s opinion was this year. During that interview he made consistent with opinions of terrorism experts some comments in relation to the tragic Ma- at the time. It was clearly one of public inter- drid bombings. In particular Mr Keelty said est and one for the Australian community to the following: be made aware of at the time. If this turns out to be Islamic extremists responsi- We believe it is vital to prevent any cur- ble for this bombing in Spain, it’s more likely to rent or future government from abusing its be linked to the position that Spain and other al- executive power in that way. Certainly that is lies took on issues such as Iraq. how we see it. Therefore, the effect of the Shortly after that, the Prime Minister and amendment before us now would be to some other government ministers publicly change the grounds upon which the police slammed Mr Keelty’s remarks. The Prime commissioner may be dismissed. The legisla- Minister said it was too early to ascertain tion currently provides that the commissioner who or what was responsible for the bomb- may be dismissed for misbehaviour. That is ings. He chided Mr Keelty by saying that Mr appropriate. The Democrat amendment seeks Keelty’s responsibility was operational po- to clarify that that misbehaviour does not and lice matters and that the kind of analysis that cannot include the expression of an honestly he had offered did not come from within that held opinion if the commissioner believes area. Similarly, the Attorney-General la- that it is in the public interest to communi- belled Mr Keelty’s remarks as simplistic and cate that opinion, whether publicly or pri- inappropriate. By the Tuesday evening fol- vately. This will hopefully ensure that the lowing Mr Keelty’s original remarks, he had government is not in a position to threaten,
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23019 coerce or harass a police commissioner, with in future. Australians were, I think, rightly the possibility of being fired, if the commis- upset by the government’s disgraceful treat- sioner believes it is in the public interest to ment of Commissioner Keelty and, like La- speak out on an issue. I think that that is bor, would no doubt welcome this amend- clear—certainly we aim for clarity in the ment. amendment—and I think the argument is Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— fair. I commend the amendment to the Sen- Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.27 ate. p.m.)—The comments we have heard from Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (12.24 the opposition and the Democrats have no p.m.)—Labor will be supporting this relevance to the amendment before the amendment. Senator Greig highlighted some committee. Perhaps I might just instil some of the issues but I think the matter deserves relevance into the debate in relation to what ventilation in this chamber again. Australians has been put here by the Democrats. This will not easily forget the way Commissioner amendment deals with a provision in relation Keelty was harangued and treated by this to the termination of the appointment of a government for simply expressing what commissioner or deputy commissioner. That could only be taken as an honestly held view provision allows for the termination, under of his about the increased threat to Austra- certain circumstances, of the appointment of lians resulting from Australia’s participation a commissioner or deputy commissioner by in the war in Iraq. We now know that the reason of misbehaviour or physical or mental government’s bullying had a devastating ef- incapacity. It is a reasonable provision. The fect on Mr Keelty and led the commissioner Democrats are saying that this misbehaviour: to wonder, as I understood it, whether he ... does not include the expression of an honestly retained the confidence of the government or held opinion by the Commissioner or a Deputy whether he should resign. Such an outcome Commissioner, if the Commissioner or Deputy would have been a major setback in the war Commissioner believes that it is in the public against terrorism and it would have been interest to communicate that opinion, whether entirely the responsibility of the Howard publicly or privately. government. Without dealing with the cheap political This decent police commissioner has de- point that is being made here, or that they are voted himself to fighting al-Qaeda. His re- attempting to make, let us look at this provi- ward for that effort was to be slandered by sion as it might work. That is what our job is the foreign minister and accused of repeating in the committee stage in the Senate. What al-Qaeda propaganda. He was subjected to a we have here is a proposal which would have haranguing telephone call from the Prime as an exemption to misbehaviour a very sub- Minister’s puffed up chief of staff and the jective belief on the part of a person who humiliation of, as we understand it, being would be making the comment. In the laws asked to sign a retraction drafted for him by of the Commonwealth, there is no exception the government. Even after the statement based on subjective belief alone. This is a was issued and senior ministers were falling remarkable departure from the laws of the over themselves to substitute flattery for Commonwealth with similar provisions. slander, the Attorney-General went on Sun- What we would possibly have here is the day television and delivered, in my view, the situation where a commissioner or deputy final insult by telling Commissioner Keelty commissioner could make a statement which to deliver his advice to government ears only was repugnant in some way. For example, it
CHAMBER 23020 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 could be racist. Notwithstanding that, as long ernment opposes this amendment for those as that person held the belief honestly and reasons. Bringing in recent events which believed that it was in the public interest to have no relevance is really a political ploy— express it, that would not constitute misbe- a political stunt. What we saw recently did haviour. In many parts of the world we have not involve the termination of any appoint- seen people making statements which would ment or an attempt to do that in relation to be repugnant to the average, reasonable per- any misbehaviour as contained in section 22 son. Those statements are made with an hon- of the legislation. What we have here in the est belief. They are held honestly, albeit in a Democrat amendment is a vehicle to try to very prejudiced way. They are also made on make a political point—a vehicle which the basis that that person thinks they are in could produce problems which, I suggest, the public interest. could be very serious indeed. I remind the Police commissioners and deputy com- Senate that dealing with the appointment and missioners are human beings like the rest of the termination of the appointment of a us. Unfortunately, we have seen examples in commissioner or deputy commissioner of Australia in the past—very few—where police is a very serious matter indeed. It is there have been people in these offices who not done lightly. Misbehaviour is grounds for have not been fit to hold them. We have seen termination of appointment, and everyone statements made by people in authority over- would think that that is appropriate. seas in similar positions which have not been Obviously if a commissioner of police or acceptable to the community. If a police deputy commissioner of police were engaged commissioner or deputy commissioner made in misbehaviour of a sort which required a statement which was racist or showed action, the community would expect the prejudice and that person turned around and government of the day to take action. But to said, ‘I hold that view honestly and I believe say that an exception to misbehaviour is it is in the public interest to do so,’ that based purely on a subjective belief by the would be an exception to misbehaviour un- person concerned—a subjective belief that it der the provisions of the act. It would be is (a) in the public interest and (b) held hon- based purely subjectively—that is, you estly—and to allow that without qualification would look at the person themselves and see is, I believe, a very dangerous situation. You if that particular person held that view hon- could find yourself in a position where you estly and thought it was in the public interest. might not be able to take action against a That not only is bad law, I submit, but it also commissioner or deputy commissioner who opens the way for a potentially serious prob- had made a statement which the community lem where a commissioner or deputy com- found entirely unacceptable. Let us look at missioner could make a statement of a view this on that basis and not on the basis of re- which they honestly held and made in what cent events which have no relevance to the they believed to be the public interest but proposed amendment. which was totally unacceptable to the Aus- Senator GREIG (Western Australia) tralian community, and you could do nothing (12.33 p.m.)—I will say two things in re- because this exception would say that you sponse to the minister’s position. On the face have to judge it subjectively. of it, the minister seems to have a reasonable Let us deal with this amendment on the argument. But where it falls down in part, is, face of it. Let us deal with it on the effect I believe, on these two points. Firstly, we are that it might have. On that basis, the gov- talking about a very senior public office
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23021 holder—a police commissioner. We are not Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— talking about the average Joe Blow in the Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.36 street; we are talking about someone who is p.m.)—I need to respond to that aspect—that appointed by government. Therefore, any if a statement is so outrageous it will attract sincerely held personal views they may have criminal sanction. That could well be true, are open to genuinely valid assessment of but I remind the Senate that you could have a what they might be saying. situation where the commissioner or deputy The minister went on to say that the ap- commissioner was charged over a statement pointment of a police commissioner is an which involved racial vilification and whilst incredibly important and comprehensive that was pending you could not rely on that thing and ‘not to be dealt with lightly’—I person because of the exception. If that think they were the words he used. I agree. I charge were defended, it could go on for would hope that, in the course of selecting some time. In the meantime, you would have and appointing a police commissioner, the your deputy commissioner or commissioner government of the time would be aware—to in the job. I do not think relying on a convic- follow the minister’s analogy—of any racist tion is an ideal situation, because there is views that might be held by that person. misbehaviour which does not necessarily Again using that analogy, let us say for ex- entail a conviction but which still requires ample that some police commissioner in the the government to act to dismiss the police future, Commissioner Bloggs, expresses the commissioner or deputy police commis- sincerely held view that black people are a sioner. threat to society and there should be stronger High standards are expected of the people Commonwealth laws to crack down on black who hold those offices. So to say that if the people. The minister might argue that this behaviour was so bad there would be a con- amendment would facilitate that and protect viction anyway and you could rely on the that commissioner from dismissal on that conviction for termination of appointment is basis. But no; that is not the case, because an inappropriate basis on which to advance that person would also, invariably, be in this proposed amendment. One can envisage breach of state and/or Commonwealth laws a range of misbehaviours which would not dealing with racial vilification and so their entail a criminal conviction but which could dismissal could still take place on those demand the termination of appointment. That grounds. really would be putting the cart before the So it is a question of not just what the horse. Certainly a conviction would be views might be but also whether their ex- grounds for termination of appointment. But pression is in the public interest. That is offensive statements could well be made where the government has the retort and is which may not attract criminal sanction, and still empowered to dismiss a commissioner the person who made the statements could lawfully: on the grounds of the views being say, ‘Look, I honestly held the view and I sincerely held but not necessarily in the pub- believed it was in the public interest.’ Re- lic interest. That is where the power for the member, a person who is racially prejudiced appointment, protection and preservation of can hold that belief honestly. An honest be- that particular employment remains. That is lief is one which you genuinely believe in. A why the minister’s argument, in my view, is dishonest belief is a belief you espouse but false and why the premise behind what I am do not really believe in. You say ‘honest be- proposing here still holds. lief’, but they can hold that view honestly—
CHAMBER 23022 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 albeit a view that is repugnant to a vast ma- cannot speak for them—to at least provide a jority of the community. To wait for a con- clear basis on which the police commissioner viction before termination is inappropriate. can act so that he cannot be undermined in Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (12.38 his invaluable role. p.m.)—I do not want to deal with the dis- Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— tance we have covered in this debate in rela- Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.41 tion to that particular scenario. We are argu- p.m.)—I cannot let those statements go un- ing about the scenario, but I think the minis- challenged. I have to say that the police ter has failed to address something else and I commissioner’s role has been an independent ask him to address it. We do not see this as a one and remains so. Knowing Commissioner political stunt by the Democrats; nor do we Keelty as I do, I know that he is a fiercely seek to make a political point about it. We independent person. He makes judgments think that a very poor attack was made on according to what he thinks is best. That is Commissioner Keelty for expressing a view the position and I reject the allegations made which the Australian public were entitled to by the opposition and the Democrats. The hear. Commissioner of the Federal Police will We have not heard from the minister how, continue to be an independent police com- if he disagrees with the Democrat amend- missioner. If we are going to go down the ment, he proposes to ensure that Commis- path of people attacking the police commis- sioner Keelty can, without fear or favour, sioner, I can easily remind the Senate of express a view which the public expect him comments made in this chamber in relation to state in his role as the Australia Federal to the Federal Police and rather personal Police Commissioner. That is the germane comments made in press releases issued by point. I think the Democrats are trying to the opposition in relation to the Australian ensure that the commissioner can make his Federal Police Commissioner, Mr Keelty, point. Without some legislative backing, and his evidence to a Senate committee hear- Commissioner Keelty clearly had to consider ing. I do not think it advances the debate whether or not his position was untenable. whatsoever in relation to this proposed That is not appropriate, given the state we amendment and I still maintain that it is ir- are now faced with in relation to the war on relevant. terror. Question agreed to. Labor think that the government needs to Bill, as amended, agreed to. address the uncertainty that the flurry of ac- Bill reported with amendments; report tivity around that issue raised, because it adopted. could happen again. The government has not Third Reading indicated that it will not happen again, so clearly there is still potential for this circum- Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— stance to happen again. The government may Minister for Justice and Customs) (12.43 have put press statements out after the fact p.m.)—I move: saying that it would not happen again, but That this bill be now read a third time. they did that after the damage had been done Question agreed to. on the way through. Labor support the Bill read a third time. amendment because we are concerned—and I suspect the Democrats are too, although I
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23023
MATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST frastructure, and still provides a surplus. It The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Order! It does all of this in a global environment in being almost 12.45 p.m., I call on matters of which there are dangers, economic and oth- public interest. erwise, that make budgeting particularly dif- ficult. Small Business: Union Membership The Treasurer has been able to deliver this Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (12.43 sensible ninth progression in our national p.m.)—Labor under Mark Latham presents a economic fortunes because, among other clear and present danger to Australia’s eco- things, the Howard-Costello government’s nomic future. Under the member for Wer- business policies—particularly its small riwa—the chameleon member for Werriwa, business policies—over the past eight years who changes his tune to suit the circum- have been consistent, and consistently stances and whose budgetary record on the strong. With strong business policies comes Liverpool City Council in Sydney gives fur- strong economic growth, and with strong ther cause for alarm—Labor is running head- economic growth comes the realistic oppor- long back into the past. He has re-cemented tunity for a government like the Howard- the Labor Party’s relationship with the Costello government to deliver—as it did ACTU—to the extent that it is often difficult last night—more help for families; income to tell them apart. It is clear that both the tax cuts; massive boosts in retirement sav- ALP and the ACTU want to reimpose the ings; very significant increases in spending closed shop and bring back the one size fits in the vital areas of health, education, na- all style of union run workplace policy that tional security, the bush, and road and rail Labor itself junked in the 1990s. In fact, nei- infrastructure; and, significantly for small ther the ALP nor the ACTU has any interest business, real reforms to the GST administra- in small business, the area of the economy in tive processes which will reduce paperwork. which most Australians work. We know that Labor does not have anything to offer small I want to say more about the budget at a business. Former leader Kim Beazley said later time. In this speech the matter of public so, publicly. He said that Labor had never interest to which I draw the attention of hon- pretended to be the party of small business. ourable senators is Labor’s industrial rela- At least he was honest about it. Under its tions policy. The advantages that have been present leader no-one knows what Labor enjoyed by small business under the How- stands for in the most vital area of the econ- ard-Costello government for the last nine omy—small business. years—and the additional advantages an- nounced in last night’s budget—would be Last night in the House of Representatives utterly negated by Latham’s industrial rela- the Treasurer presented his ninth budget. It is tions policy. A Labor government that im- a budget that responsibly adds to the support posed on small business the outcomes that mechanisms available to Australians, empha- are predicated on its industrial relations pol- sising family and the home. It responsibly icy would be a complete disaster for this outlays funds whose receipt by Australians country and for small business. will enable them to enhance the choices they make on how they run their lives. It is a Labor has no answer when it is confronted budget that looks after our security, spends on the fundamental issue of growing em- money on defence in a newly dangerous ployment opportunities. It would prefer— world, adds to the education and welfare in- presumably at the behest of its paymasters in
CHAMBER 23024 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 the big unions—to send small business broke Record job creation has put many more by imposing employment conditions on it people into secure employment, in larger that are not only unconscionable but also companies as well as in small businesses. unfair and, frankly, quite stupid. It would But, even so, union membership in the pri- make small business play the big business vate sector—and this is instrumental—is at a game—with all the attendant big business historic low. Our workplace legislation costs—in matters such as unfair dismissal means that people can belong to a union if actions. It would say that it was doing so they wish to—we on this side of the chamber because it wanted to be fair to the employees are not about compulsion as a matter of pol- of small businesses. But it would be wrong. I icy—and the fact is that the evidence shows believe that it knows it would be wrong; that a large majority of employees see no therefore, it knows that what it is trying to point in joining a union. That is a problem sell to the Australian voter is a lie. for the union movement. It is one it could In fact, what Australia needs to hear from solve quite easily, if it could find the will to the Labor Party is that it has some vision for do so, by moving to become relevant in to- our country’s industrial relations future that day’s workplace. It is not necessarily a prob- does not rely for its inspiration on ideas that lem for the Labor Party—if you forget about are fixed in the increasingly distant past. La- the $40 million the unions have pumped into bor should listen less to its old union mates the ALP over the term of the Howard gov- and more to the voices of other industrial ernment. The Labor Party’s problem is that organisations—for example, the Australian it, too, must find a way to become industri- Chamber of Commerce and Industry. The ally relevant. ACCI is not a class enemy, after all. In the In a paper produced after the Labor 21st century the notion of class enemies is Party’s national conference in January, the not only derisory—and it was always deri- ACCI said some very interesting things. In sory in Australia—but also, plainly, old hat. particular—and I recommend that those op- Much has been made lately of the fact that posite take particularly close note of this—it union membership is creeping up again. La- said: bor doubtless sees this as a vindication of its For business observers at the conference and for policy of reinventing the past. But it might industry more generally, it is the policies of the just as easily be the result—and I know that Australian government and those of the Opposi- honourable senators opposite will not admit tion that matter most. Whereas trade unions cam- this—of the positive employment policies paign for a change of Australian government to suit their political colours, commerce and indus- that the Howard government has pursued try want an Australian government of whatever with vigour and courage over the past eight political colour to embrace policies that are in the years. I am here today to take some credit on national interest and best for economic develop- behalf of the government for the increase in ment and jobs. union membership that some of the good The ACCI is an independent, fair dinkum, senators across the chamber boast about. The unbiased organisation. The ACCI noted: reason for that is that we have created more An interesting measure of the Australian Labor jobs—more people in employment—and, of Party’s 2004 industrial relations platform is to course, some of those people have chosen to compare it not just with federal Coalition gov- join a union. ernment policy but with the industrial relations policy of the most recent federal Labor govern- ment, that of Paul Keating. Prime Minister
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23025
Keating expressed the ALP policy vision in these somewhere in the leadership of the post- terms in 1993: socialism Labor Party there existed some … … … grasp of the fact that forward momentum is “It is a model which places primary emphasis essential for real progress, particularly indus- on bargaining at the workplace level within a trial progress. That was, as the ACCI says in framework of minimum standards provided by its post Labor Party conference paper, a vi- arbitral tribunals. sionary position. The ACCI gives credit It is a model under which compulsorily arbi- where credit is due. It headlines its paper trated awards and arbitrated wage increases ‘ALP should match Keating vision on indus- would be there only as a safety net. trial relations reform’. There is a great oppor- The safety net would not be intended to pre- tunity for the Labor Party here—a genuine scribe the actual conditions of work of most em- opportunity to go back to the past. It only ployees, but only to catch those unable to make needs to go back 11 years to rediscover workplace agreements with employers.” commonsense and positive policy. Now isn’t that interesting? What a difference The 2004 Labor platform, the one dictated of substance—I am talking about the struc- from ACTU House—like the earlier 2000 ture envisaged, not the refinement of it or the platform of a similar provenance—talks of difficult issue of delivering such an out- ‘comprehensive, contemporary and relevant come—really exists between what Paul awards’, of ‘giving a greater role to the inde- Keating described in 1993, 11 years ago, and pendent Industrial Commission’ and of ‘in- what the Howard government has delivered creases in wages and conditions through the in office since 1996. It may be that Paul award system and industry based arrange- Keating knew that he could never deliver ments’ and promises only to lead to new or what the country needed in terms of indus- additional regulation. In short, it is not a trial relations. Judging from the performance roadmap to the future—a future in which of those opposite since they went into oppo- more and more Australians have more and sition in 1996, I would have to say that he better choices and greater freedoms. It is a probably knew that he would never deliver. signpost to the past—a past where everyone He has form for non-delivery, after all. We made do with the one-size-fits-all arrange- all remember the l-a-w tax cut that turned out ments that suited union bureaucrats, work- to be an l-i-e. Nonetheless, a policy of work- shop enforcers and enterprise-numbing re- place bargaining within a framework of strictive practices. This is what the Labor minimum standards and a regime not in- Party proposes to foist on Australia if it is tended to prescribe the actual working condi- elected to government. This is the Latham tions of most employees were Labor Party plan for modernising our country—to clamp policy in 1993. That simply cannot be de- it back in a union mandated straitjacket. It is nied. simply madness. Mr Keating was able to enunciate that pol- The national unemployment rate is 5.6 per icy without the sky falling in or the earth cent seasonally adjusted—the lowest in 22 reversing its orbit around the sun. I would years. Long-term unemployment is the low- like to think that the light on the hill may est in 13 years. As the ACCI points out in its even have flickered more brightly—just for a excellent paper—I recommend it is closely moment, before it returned to the glum glow studied by those opposite—unemployment that is its usual state—at this evidence of has been reduced through a combination of forward thinking and the faint hope that economic growth and labour market reform,
CHAMBER 23026 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 including changes to industrial relations employers, particularly small businesses, policies and practices. It says that a freeze or, which are the engine of growth in our econ- worse still, a regression on labour market omy. They are genuinely concerned about and industrial relations reform would put the employees that they have taken on, these outcomes at risk. unlike those opposite here in the Senate and For small business, undoing the reforms in the other place. of the past eight years—incomplete though Rural and Regional Australia: Health they may be because the Labor Party will not Services recognise reality and prefers politicking to Senator STEPHENS (New South Wales) policy making—would be an absolute disas- (12.56 p.m.)—I begin by advising the Senate ter. The Labor Party would make small busi- that today is International Nurses Day. I ask ness liable to the ruinous costs of big busi- and encourage all honourable senators to ness’s unfair dismissal rules and make every acknowledge the important contribution to enterprise the object of union rights of entry. Australia’s health system that nurses make. Perhaps nothing better describes the Labor They certainly belong to a dedicated and Party’s complete inability to understand undervalued profession and need to be sup- small business than those two facts. ported and appreciated by us all. Today I rise The Howard government has the runs on to speak on a matter of public interest and the board. The people of Australia are the that is the provision of rural and remote beneficiaries of greater industrial flexibility health services in Australia. I draw the Sen- and greater employment opportunity. In the ate’s attention to two important recent gov- face of this benefit—in the face of consis- ernment publications. The first is a document tently lower inflation, higher productivity, entitled Connecting government, released by higher real wages, lower interest rates, fewer the Management Advisory Committee, and disputes and strikes, record employment and the second is the report of the National Audit lower unemployment—Labor wants to re- Office performance audit of the Department regulate employment. Its platform expresses of Health and Ageing’s management of the support for the goals of economic develop- Multipurpose Services Program and the Re- ment, competitiveness and productivity. It gional Health Services Program. commits to ‘full employment’ and ‘an unem- Over six million Australians—that is, 34 ployment rate sustainably below five per per cent of the total population—lived in cent’. Yet it proposes to regulate wages and rural or remote areas in 2001. That is a sig- employment conditions by a collective sys- nificant proportion of the population. Typi- tem and to abolish all statutory individual cally, the health of those people is worse than agreements, including Australian workplace that of people living in metropolitan areas. agreements, that form the legal basis of the For example, life expectancy is higher in wage and employment conditions of 455,000 metropolitan areas and death rates increase Australians and 7,600 businesses. That is not with remoteness. You may not know this, but only stupid—it is also unfair. It shows that they are 10 per cent higher in regional and Labor in 2004, under Mark Latham, is inter- remote areas compared with major cities and ested not in freedom of choice or expanding 50 per cent higher in very remote areas. opportunity but only in giving back to big Rates of hospitalisation are also higher for union power its former right to call the tune. remote Australians compared to those living It shows that Labor in 2004 is no option for in capital cities. As we have heard from all Australia or its enterprising employees and
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23027 the Medicare committee inquiry consulta- The Commonwealth funds the aged care por- tions, the rate of general practitioner consul- tion of MPS and the state government funds tations is also lower. In general, health work- the other identified health needs. The Com- ers and pharmacists are underrepresented in monwealth is the minority funder of the pro- rural and remote areas. Therefore, access to gram, providing around $45 million a year. health services is likely to be much more Commonwealth funding of an individual limited for people living in rural and remote MPS is contingent on the commitment of the areas compared to people living in major relevant state government to providing the cities. Additional contributors to poor health recurrent funding and the capital funding and higher mortality in rural and remote ar- where necessary. The total Commonwealth eas include lower socioeconomic status, and state government funding to the 86 MPS higher risk of injury as a result of the types operational last August amounted to almost of work and conditions experienced, lower $188 million a year, which is a significant quality roads, Indigenous health needs, proportion of the health budget. physical inactivity, overweight and obesity, The Regional Health Services Program, smoking, hazardous or harmful alcohol con- which was the second program in the Na- sumption and poor diet. That is a long litany tional Audit Office performance audit, is a of contributors. Commonwealth program that helps small The purpose of my contribution to today’s communities expand their local primary debate is to focus on the Multipurpose Ser- health care services. Services provided by a vices Program and the work that multipur- regional health service may include allied pose service centres provide in rural and re- health care, health promotion and prevention gional Australia. Health services in Australia and general practitioner services. The Com- are provided by a combination of public, monwealth funded 152 regional health ser- private and not-for-profit organisations. State vices as at 31 August 2003. governments, partly funded by the Com- The objective of the audit of the National monwealth through Australian health care Audit Office was to assess the effectiveness agreements, are responsible for the provision of the Department of Health and Ageing’s of health services through the public hospital management of both the MPS Program and system. The Commonwealth Department of the Regional Health Services Program. Gen- Health and Ageing is responsible for imple- erally, the ANAO found that there was effec- menting the Australian government’s rural tive management and that the performance health policies and priorities. indicators developed for the two programs The Multipurpose Services Program, were consistent with the programs’ objec- which was the subject of the recent audit, is a tives. But the ANAO raised some very spe- joint program between the Commonwealth cific concerns that I want to put before you and state governments. It aims to provide a today. First of all, the ANAO found that flexible and integrated approach to the deliv- Health staff do not have confidence in the ery of health and aged care services to small integrity of the data held by the central rural rural communities, so it is a very important health database, and this is a very significant program for rural and regional Australia. The finding. In fact, it was found that Health staff services provided by multipurpose services have independently developed effective sys- vary, but they can include residential aged tems to monitor services that shadow the care, acute care, community and allied centrally developed rural health database and health, rehabilitation and health education. that that has led, of course, to inconsistencies
CHAMBER 23028 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 between the data held in the database and agreements originally expiring in or before that held by the state offices. Those data in- 2001. Therefore, MPS are operating with consistencies combined with the limited ac- agreements that may be implementing ser- cess to the database have meant that the da- vice delivery plans that are not current or tabase does not meet the needs of state office relevant to current community needs. The staff, so the department of health’s central ANAO expressed concern that targets in- office staff do not have confidence in the cluded in the MPS funding agreements— integrity of the data held by the database. which of course are bed numbers and budget Significantly again, the ANAO found that figures—are input measures that guide fund- the performance information is not being ing levels but are certainly not adequate used effectively, that the data on individual measures of outputs or outcomes. In addi- services is not collated or analysed system- tion, the bed numbers are only indicative. atically and that Health is not using service Applying the principle of flexible funding, performance data to identify good practice or funding provided to MPS may be used to potential improvements to the programs. In provide any appropriate aged care services. addition, Health does not have baseline in- Therefore, as bed numbers are not an accu- formation on health service provision or rate description of the actual services pro- health outcomes and consequently is not able vided, they are not a useful target. It was to measure the progress of the two programs found that the financial controls and man- against their respective objectives. That agement of the MPS were sound but that the hardly seems to be good enough. department of health’s knowledge of state government contributions to the MPS Pro- A third finding, and another concern, of gram was limited. However, the ANAO ANAO was that Health has developed a risk noted that the Commonwealth and state gov- management plan for the Regional Health ernments have recently agreed to change the Services Program but not for the MPS Pro- reporting arrangements. This, again, is an gram. There is no risk management plan for important point that I will come back to. the MPS Program as a whole. That, again, is of concern to us all. The ANAO found that Significant for rural Australia is the fact there is a systematic approach to identifying that the ANAO found that Health has identi- MPS sites and that once these are identified fied a significant financial issue in the level they are assessed against the selection crite- of underspent RHSP funds. Funding was ria, which is consistent with the program’s increased by 9.6 per cent in the last budget objectives and ensures that MPS are placed but $6.6 million was not spent by the Re- in communities most significantly in need of gional Health Services Program during this what is a very flexible model. The ANAO two-year period, which really is not good found that the principle of that flexible, enough for small rural and regional commu- pooled funding that forms the basis of an nities where health services are stretched to MPS funding model is also consistent with the limit. The ANAO found that Health has the objectives of the MPS Program. That is not identified or systematically analysed the an important point that I want to come back reasons why rural health services are not to. using available Commonwealth funds. The ANAO found that one-third of the I will now move to the second report, MPS are operating with extended funding Connecting government: whole of govern- agreements, with almost half of the extended ment responses to Australia’s priority chal- lenges. I am not sure whether you have heard
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23029 of this report, but it is a very significant In a real sense citizens are stakeholders in the document that was released only a few making of public policy. weeks ago by the Management Advisory There are some important lessons in both Committee. It is an important document as these publications. The ANAO report sug- much for what it does not say as it is for the gests that guidelines for the MPS Program approach to service delivery and decision are effective but that guidelines for the Re- making it promotes. The document promotes gional Health Services Program are inade- whole-of-government thinking and action quate. The Regional Health Services Pro- and it provides case studies of how this is gram state office guidelines were developed happening at the Commonwealth level. Dr in the first year of the program but were Shergold, Chair of MAC, launched the re- found not to assist Health staff with program port. He said: management, to be out of date and to contain Australians rightly demand the delivery of gov- inaccuracies. So, in fact, those kinds of ernment programs and services in a seamless way. guidelines were not being used by staff. On That is what they see and, to a significant extent, the one hand we have the Multipurpose Ser- that is what Centrelink delivers. vices Program, an innovative and responsive Centrelink was one of the case studies. He model for the hard decisions about service continued: delivery in the regions, which needs whole- They should also expect that, behind the scenes, of-government thinking—and that was not all the resources of government will be coordi- demonstrated in the ANAO report. On the nated in the search for innovative solutions to other hand we have the Connecting govern- complex policy. ment document promoting whole-of- He went on to say: government practice, which needs to be Good policy will always be undermined by poor translated into genuine action on the ground implementation. Bad policy will always result if it in the regions in a much more proactive way is not informed by the operational experience of than is currently the norm. those who deliver programs and services at the The MPS Program and the Regional front desk, in the call centre or by contract man- Health Services Program are a small but sig- agement. The problem of structural demarcations nificant response to the challenge of service exist at least as much within departments as be- delivery to regional Australia. The programs tween them. That is why, too often, program managers in Canberra believe that their regional rely heavily on good relations between the staff are insufficiently aware of the environment Commonwealth and state governments and of political contest in which they operate and on a genuine partnership approach with why, conversely, regional staff are inclined to the communities, which depends on those com- view that the national office is unable to compre- munities being supported in making some hend the challenges they face implementing pol- difficult choices about their health service icy on the ground. mix. As I said before, the pooled funding He then went on to say: model used in the MPS Program is a very A whole-of-government approach also requires good model for dealing with those chal- knowledge of how a policy is likely to be per- lenges, but we do need to ensure that we ceived by those who are to be affected by it. It is have connected government, a whole-of- entirely appropriate that a public servant facilitate government approach and departments work- discussion with those bodies who seek to repre- ing together to deliver those outcomes for sent, advocate or lobby for interest groups. regional Australia.
CHAMBER 23030 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Budget 2004-05 said, runs the real risk of increasing interest Senator BARTLETT (Queensland— rates by putting $4.2 billion extra cash into Leader of the Australian Democrats) (1.01 the economy before 30 June, with another p.m.)—Tomorrow night, as is traditional for $8.2 billion to come in a tidal wave next the Leader of the Australian Democrats, I year. Household debt, as the budget papers will be giving a full response on behalf of the show, is now 150 per cent of household in- Australian Democrats to the government’s come. In 1996 household debt was only 75 budget proposals that were tabled in this per cent of household income. It has doubled chamber and in the other place last night. But in the life of this government. In the early I want to outline now our responses to some eighties it was only 40 per cent. of the core components of the budget and, The last thing that Australia needs is the indeed, go to a core lesson and a core mes- risk of another interest rate increase. We sage that can be taken from this govern- probably will not get it before the election, ment’s behaviour in just the last 24 hours particularly if this government rushes to the with respect to the budget and the situation polls, but that will not stop Australia facing in Iraq. In just the last 24 hours I believe this the consequences after the polls. That will government has demonstrated once and for particularly be the case if the Labor Party’s all that any notion that it is strong and re- response is to pass all this spending and then sponsible on economic management or that it to promise some extra spending to fill in the is strong on national security has clearly gaps for those people who missed out. The gone out the window. Any suggestion that it massive increase in household debt and the is a careful manager of money or that it will fact that the government has so much money spend it appropriately in the public interest is of course in part due to the housing boom has gone out the window. This highlights that has fuelled housing unaffordability. again the importance of the Senate in trying Measures such as tax breaks for high-income to ensure that public money is spent respon- earners—which they already get through sibly and effectively, not just stashed away to negative gearing, through the capital gains the side for a tidal wave of pre-election tax discounts and through building allow- spending every three years. ances—have fuelled the investor driven The budget is dishonest because it is not housing bubble. It has failed our health and economically responsible, and the Senate education system but is actually saving noth- must more clearly acknowledge and take ing for the looming intergenerational crisis. credit for its role in ensuring that the eco- It is putting the economy at risk by putting in nomic fundamentals of this country are much such a tidal wave of money leading up to an stronger than they would otherwise be. The election. Senate must continue to try to ensure that the The government are also dishonest in say- public expenditure passed by this parliament ing that they are strongest on making Austra- is as economically responsible as possible. lia safer. There is the intelligence money, for That is why we must scrutinise this budget’s example. The Democrats welcome that. We spending measures, particularly the huge have repeatedly said that we welcome more amounts of largesse being dished out on an resources for the intelligence community, but election eve. This government has long tried clearly there is a cloud over the effectiveness to argue that it is the only one that is eco- of the operations of our intelligence agen- nomically responsible. This budget, nonethe- cies. I know we are very careful about ac- less, as many economic commentators have knowledging our sources these days, so I
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23031 acknowledge The Chaser magazine as the around 13 per cent, other than this extraordi- source of this appropriate headline: ‘Mr nary exhortation from the Treasurer to work Howard doubles ASIO budget, demands more overtime to reach the higher tax brack- twice as much faulty intelligence.’ There is ets and benefit from the government’s absurd no point putting extra money into intelli- tax cuts. At a time when we are supposedly gence agencies when there is clearly a need trying to fix the balance between work and to ensure they work more effectively first. family, the Treasurer is saying that low- Similarly, there is continuing evidence income earners can benefit from this by just about significant wastage and gross over- working more overtime. The fact is that over spending in defence purchases. Not enough one million Australians are living in poverty, is being done to address that. It is one thing despite living in a household where one or to say you are putting extra money in, but more adults are in employment. The tax cuts unless those areas are working properly you will do absolutely zero for those people. are putting good money after bad. That is The overwhelming conclusion of most more economic mismanagement and it does submissions to the recent Senate committee nothing to make Australia safer. We are con- inquiry into poverty and financial hardship is tinuing to waste defence money on patrolling that this government should offer a hand up Australia’s oceans to keep out refugees and and not a handout to those living in pov- asylum seekers. We are continuing to waste erty—something you would think the con- money on mandatory detention and the Pa- servatives would support, but this budget has cific solution. All of that does nothing to failed to do that. The government is dishon- make Australia safer; it misdirects the ener- est in talking about these tax cuts as being gies of the defence community. aimed at middle-income Australians. Mr The budget is dishonest because it has not Howard talks repeatedly about middle- properly addressed the long-term structural income Australians. He says, as he did again needs of families. It might address the short- this morning, that hardworking middle- term electoral needs of the government—we income Australians need an incentive. I do shall see. What we need is responsible ex- not begrudge extra tax assistance for middle- penditure of money that actually addresses income Australians; I just wish they were problems in a sustainable, ongoing way, not actually getting some. Frankly, I do not be- in a short-term, lump sum handout way. The grudge extra income tax assistance for peo- short-term, cynical funding in the budget ple earning higher amounts, but the sugges- encourages people to go forth and multiply; tion that high-income earners need tax cuts it does not consider the ongoing needs of the as an incentive to work harder but low- average Australian family and must be con- income earners do not get tax cuts as an in- demned. Again, it is dishonest. The vote- centive for them to work harder is grossly buying lump sum family benefit payments offensive and again dishonest. are not going to bring the 700,000 children The statistics clearly show that these tax and their families out of poverty. Any extra cuts will help less than a quarter of taxpay- money is obviously welcome, but to spend it ers—around 2¼ million people who have in such a one-off irrational way is clearly not taxable incomes over $52,000. That is not in the best use of public money. the ‘middle’ in anybody’s language. I am not There are no real incentives to address un- saying that people on an income of $52,000 employment and underemployment, which is do not deserve some extra assistance, that they could not benefit from it, that it is a
CHAMBER 23032 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 huge income or that they are rich. Let us not through. That is despite statements by Mr see more dishonesty from the government by Latham saying that this budget is deeply misrepresenting what the Democrats are say- flawed and unfair. Well, that bit is honest, but ing here. The fact remains that the vast ma- their response is still to let it through. The jority of Australians are below the so-called problem is that there is no rewind button on middle level of $52,000 a year that the gov- legislation: once it is passed, it is through. If ernment has highlighted. The suggestion that it is deeply flawed and unfair and it is people earning $60,000 or $70,000 a year— passed, then it is locked in as deeply flawed as the Prime Minister is saying—are middle- and unfair. income earners is simply not correct. That It is important to emphasise that that does not mean that they cannot do with some would not be the first time. For all the talk assistance but, from the Democrats’ point of about Mr Latham taking a new approach view, it certainly means that people who earn compared with the small target approach of less than that will miss out on assistance. Labor in the past, I think it is worth revisit- Unlike the Greens, the Democrats do not ing Labor’s record under Mr Beazley, for say that no-one should get an income tax cut. example. I draw the attention of the Senate to We recognise, as was quite clear in the Sen- an article written by Margo Kingston in the ate inquiry into poverty, that tax relief for Sydney Morning Herald nearly five years low- and middle-income earners in particular ago now, on 27 November 1999, in which is a very important way of helping people she pointed to the occasion when the Labor out of poverty. The Democrats have repeat- Party, the party of labour, agreed to capital edly said that in the lead-up to this budget. gains tax changes which ‘overwhelmingly People who are on middle- and low-incomes benefited the wealthy and dramatically dis- actually pay the highest effective marginal advantaged small business compared with tax rates—higher than people in the top tax big shareholders’. Mr Latham was actually brackets. So of course they should get some quoted in that article as saying, ‘Under this income tax relief; the fact is that they are not government, the more you earn the bigger getting any. The Greens do not want to give proportion of your earnings you receive in a them any; they do not want anybody to have tax cut. It’s a multibillion dollar free kick for income tax cuts. The Democrats say that it is the rich.’ fine if we are going to have income tax cuts Using Mr Latham’s language, it was a but that they should be shared more fairly. If multibillion dollar free kick for the rich that we are going to spend that amount of Labor passed five years ago because Mr money—and it is an enormous amount of Beazley wanted to vacate the field and focus money; bigger than we should have, in our solely on the area on which he wanted to view—then any form of income tax relief fight the election. It appears we will have should be spread fairly. The government’s that same thing happen again. People are continued insistence that this is a fair budget elected to the Senate to actually do the job is again dishonest. here. You cannot do the job in the Senate for One of the most frustrating aspects is that two years out of three and then say in the the opportunity to improve this budget— third year, ‘There’s an election coming up so which is the Senate’s responsibility, as it has we’ll just let all the bad stuff through and let always been—is apparently going to be lost people make another choice at the election.’ because the Labor Party appear to have cho- There is a reason why the Senate has fixed sen to vacate the field and allow all this terms that are not cut to the election cycle—
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23033 that is, so that we can continue to assess leg- short of that and, whilst it does provide wel- islation as it is put before us in terms of the come extra assistance, to suggest that this best needs of the Australian people, not the package meets even the basic needs of some- best needs of the Prime Minister’s election thing as important as maternity leave is dis- timetable. It is very important that we get the honest. opportunity to address some of these flaws. So there is a lot that needs to be scruti- As this government has to acknowledge, nised. Let me remind the Senate and the pub- when it is not engaged in political rhetoric, lic that there are only nine Senate sitting the Democrats have shown that we will be days before the end of June. If we have an constructive and responsible in the Senate. election in August, that is all the time we Over the last month leading up to the budget have in which to pass all this legislation that we put forward a range of proposals. We re- the government wants to rush through, let peatedly said that funding should go to ser- alone everything else it has backed up. That vices first, and I believe the majority of the is bad governance and bad policy, and it is community want that. This budget has failed something the Democrats do not believe the in that regard. It has not put the extra money Senate should be a part of. It would be dis- into housing, health, education or the envi- honest of us to say that we will run for the ronment, where it is clearly needed. We also election and be a part of the Senate if we do said that, if there were income tax cuts—and not then do our job properly. (Time expired) we all knew that was going to happen in a Western Australia: Labor Government pre-election environment—they should be Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia) shared fairly. Clearly that has not happened. (1.26 p.m.)—Honesty and integrity have These are government proposals. They are taken flight from the Western Australian not government imprimaturs from on high branch of the Australian Labor Party. One of that must be forced through without change. the first things the new Labor government in All parties in the Senate have at times voted Western Australia did in 2001 was to let the to amend or reject income tax and other tax Attorney-General, Jim McGinty, continue his changes; there is nothing special about these obsession with changing the state’s electoral tax changes that says they must be pushed laws to disenfranchise voters in regional through just because there is an election Western Australia. Mr McGinty took his around the corner. Indeed I would argue that fight to the High Court of Australia, at tax- the fact that there is an election around the payers’ expense. This was his second attack corner makes it all the more important to to get to the High Court, having twice previ- properly scrutinise them rather than allow ously failed in the state Supreme Court. them to be rushed through. Once again his argument was thrown out. The family payment changes, as welcome McGinty, the first law officer in Western as they are, maintain the dishonesty of say- Australia, proclaimed his assault to be in the ing that they meet the needs of working name of electoral fairness—one vote, one mothers, because they do not put in place a value. Hypocrisy and deception run all the legislative entitlement to paid maternity way to the top in the Labor Party govern- leave. Australia’s working women should ment in Western Australia. Mr McGinty is have an automatic entitlement to take leave one of the principal beneficiaries of an inter- to have a child, in the same way that they nal vote-rigging scandal currently unfolding have an entitlement to sick leave, holiday in Western Australia. The aggravating fact is leave and other leave. We have still fallen
CHAMBER 23034 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 that this rorting and corruption have been branches, the bigger its influence, and I will alive and well inside WA Labor for more say more about this later. This Left and New than five years. Indeed, many Western Aus- Right grouping has become the dominant tralian Labor members and senators in both faction within the Labor Party in Western the federal and state parliaments owe their Australia, guaranteeing its hack members all positions to the flawed and corrupt internal the spoils of power in terms of party posi- voting processes inside their state Labor tions and winnable seat preselections. Party. The losing factions from this alliance were Labor in WA is a party dominated by fac- those associated with former Labor Premier tional war lords, usually union heavyweights, Brian Burke, of the Right, and the Centre who will stop at nothing in their relentless Left, headed up by CFMEU chief, Kevin pursuit of power and privilege. These war Reynolds. Things came to a head when Brian lords meet deep in the bowels of Curtin Burke wanted a senior public servant, Darryl House to divvy up the spoils of preselections Wookey, to be preselected for Ballajura at and party leadership positions according to the last state election. The problem was that who has the most votes on the state execu- the federal member for Perth, Stephen Smith, tive, all based on the number of members had promised the seat to his close friend and belonging to a specific union or branch. Put former campaign manager, the Mayor of simply: the more members in a union or Bayswater, John D’Orazio. So came the branch, the more votes on preselections. So great split of the Right, enabling the ambi- much for one equal vote to each member of tious Michelle Roberts to take the party the Labor Party within Labor Party voting presidency and the despotic Mr McGinty to processes. It is a textbook definition of hy- take control of Labor Party affairs in Western pocrisy and is light-years away from any fair Australia. notion of one vote, one value. Where is Mr Premier Gallop, who was the state Labor McGinty’s obsessive zealotry for electoral opposition leader at the time, harboured reform when it comes to reform of his own paranoia over the power and influence of house and his own party? He should resign. Burke and Reynolds in the party and sup- He is obviously a person unsuitable to be in ported D’Orazio. It became a show of charge of the administration of justice in strength and Gallop, supported by McGinty Western Australia. and Roberts, won. D’Orazio was duly This factional warfare had its historical elected at the 2001 state election and is now genesis in October 1999, when a deal was chair of the powerful Public Accounts Com- done between the ALP factional heavy- mittee within state parliament. What Gallop weights around Perth to create two new alli- unwittingly did was create a monster. The ances. Unions associated with the far Left, short-term gain in defeating Burke and Rey- and controlled by de facto premier, Jim nolds conversely empowered McGinty and McGinty, formed an alliance with current Roberts who, with Smith, now control every state Labor president, Michelle Roberts, and aspect of the Labor Party in Western Austra- the federal member for Perth and shadow lia. As a further consequence, state cabinet is immigration spokesman, Stephen Smith, in a now dominated by factional hacks dictated to grouping that is now known as the New by McGinty, Roberts and Smith. Right. The New Right does not have a large Prior to the last state election much union base, but relies overwhelmingly on commentary came from all quarters on just branch memberships—the bigger the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23035 how unfair and undemocratic the Labor the electorate officer of Kobelke. The quote Party in Western Australia was in handling goes on: its own preselection issues. An article on The Leader of the Opposition— former Keating minister Gary Johns was as Mr Gallop then was— published in the Bulletin on 18 April 2000, which said: intended to clean up the pre-selection process of the Labor Party, and now we find the member for Johns has spent three years researching a PhD Nollamara paying for other people’s branch on preselection procedures. His research memberships, in contravention of his own new reinforced the view that Western Australia’s constitution, which was designed to clean up the Labor Party had the most “crooked” preselection Labor Party. of any ALP branch. “Local branch members have no say in preselection, there is no sense of Kobelke responded the next day, saying that democracy in WA—it [has] the most this was an isolated case and he was only overwhelmingly union-dominated preselection helping out an old pensioner. This rules. Branch members are irrelevant—it is explanation was not true. This was in whatever the main union characters at the time November 2000, nearly five months after think. 30 June when the membership was renewed. Vote rigging has been endemic inside Labor The person who signed the note on his behalf in Western Australia for more than four years was not only the membership officer for the now and has only lately been understood by branch but also his electorate officer. the media. The first hint of the magnitude of Minister Kobelke had been caught red- this scandal was during a parliamentary handed and, unbelievably, his disingenuous debate on ministerial standards and codes of explanation was swallowed whole by both conduct on 22 November 2000. The then his party leadership and the media. The coalition state government minister for pensioner involved actually came into the planning, Graham Kierath, revealed that the then office of the Premier and cabinet and current minister for consumer affairs, John handed over the calling card from Minister Kobelke, had been caught red-handed in vote Kobelke to one of the Premier’s advisers. He rigging. He was dobbed in by a Labor Party told the adviser that he had not been a member who had had enough of the lies, member of the Labor Party for years and was deception and large-scale vote rigging that disgusted to find out that his name was being was the modus operandi of powerbrokers used for blatantly corrupt political purposes. inside WA Labor. In the state parliament, The second event signifying the extent of Minister Kierath said: WA Labor’s vote-rigging rorts was revealed I have a photocopy of a calling card from John by senior investigative journalist Tony Kobelke, the member for Nollamara. On the back Wright in an article in the Bulletin on is a hand-written note which states— 16 January 2001. In this episode, two John payed for your membership to his members of staff in the office of the Labor branch the Balga-Nollamara Branch only to member for Swan were found to have rorted find you were a member of the Girrawheen the parliamentary travel allowance scheme to Branch. Please sign the enclosed form, and you will then be transferred to our branch. the tune of $9,000. Why would they do this? What was the motive? Who was the Thank you beneficiary? The answers are simple— Ann Roberts— factional powerbrokers and the chance to boost the membership of the branches in the
CHAMBER 23036 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 electorate of Swan. The two staff members in marching orders. The third person employed the member for Swan’s office were foot in the office, a member of the Left who soldiers of the emerging New Right faction, actually blew the whistle on the other two by jointly headed up by the now shadow copying their personal computer files, minister for immigration, Mr Smith, and remained—protected, no doubt, by factional ALP President, Michelle Roberts. allegiance. Four years later, Western Simple mathematics tells you that $9,000 Australians now know that these examples goes a long way to paying the party were not isolated cases of vote rigging—they membership fees of a lot of people. In his have been entrenched and endemic Bulletin article, Tony Wright said: throughout Labor Party processes in Western Australia for years and years. Rumours circulating widely within the ALP have it that some of these memberships are in the It has recently been revealed—and names of “ghosts”—people who are dead, who admitted by the member for the state seat of don’t exist or who have been signed up without Ballajura, John D’Orazio—that he and his their knowledge. brother have been involved in vote-rigging However, senior insiders who have spoken to scams for a number of years. Respected the Bulletin are more inclined to believe that if investigative journalist Paul Murray reported there are indeed ghosts on the books, they are on the extent of vote rigging by the D’Orazio likely to be people who joined the ALP years ago, clan in the West Australian on Saturday, who had allowed their memberships to lapse and, 3 April. He said: without their knowledge, have had their annual membership fees paid. In this way, there would be I’d been alerted to a secret investigation being no unusual jump in membership numbers—they held by the secretary of the Labor Party, Bill would appear to remain stable, even though some Johnston, into allegations of branch stacking in former members might have moved away, or the Cowan electorate council, particularly in the thought they had quit the party, or had even died. branches affecting the State seat of Ballajura, held A sum of $9,000 is enough to pay for several by John D’Orazio. hundred memberships. One long-time ALP figure I’d been told to pay attention to people who put it simply: “The more branch members you had been signed up who lived outside Ballajura. have on the books, the more influence you have Ringing through the lists, I found Greta Fox who in the party.” lives in Belmont, well out of the electorate. The upshot of this is that the two staffers had Greta told me she had been signed up by a established in the member for Swan’s office bloke called Tom who came to her home to talk to a de facto headquarters of the shadow her son, Scott, about hiring a stretch limousine. minister for immigration’s New Right Tom had asked Scott to become a member of the faction, with membership numbers in the ALP. branches totalling around 1,200. All of a “He said it wouldn’t cost us anything ... He sudden the New Right had some factional said he was trying to sign up 600 members for his muscle, courtesy of the blatant vote-rigging brother. subterfuge within the office of the member … … … for Swan. It didn’t take too much work for me to find out that “Tom” was Tom D’Orazio, the brother of An internal review by the Labor Party— John, the MP. doesn’t that sound familiar!—cleared the member for Swan. Surprise, surprise. … … … However, the review was not so kind to the ... John D’Orazio’s huge branch memberships— loyal factional staffers. Both were given their far and away the most impressive in the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23037 metropolitan area—get him about 15 votes in the A recent secret internal review of Labor Cowan electorate council’s share of 200 ALP branch stacking conducted by State Secretary State executive votes. Bill Johnston produced an adverse result for On 7 April 2004, ABC News reported that police minister Michelle Roberts and shadow the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union minister for immigration, Stephen Smith. had been exposed for reporting a The New Right faction has been found to be membership of 10,000 one day and the very responsible for blatant branch stacking and next day saying it was 14,000. The extent vote rorting in Labor Party branches over a and seriousness of this corruption has not number of years. It has been revealed that had the spotlight from anybody on my side more than 30 per cent of ALP members in of politics. The whistleblower is a member of the New Right faction cannot be verified. the old Right faction, headed by former Paul Murray, in the West Australian on Premier, Brian Burke. On 7 April in the 22 April this year, said: Herald Sun, Tim Clarke reported: Forged signatures and fake membership forms Senator Bishop claimed two unions—the Liquor, have been uncovered in a preliminary investiga- Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union ... tion into branch stacking in the WA Labor Party. and the AMWU—inflated their membership ALP State Secretary Bill Johnston says ‘hundreds figures. and hundreds’ of Labor’s 5700 WA members may He said the votes altered the balance of power in be caught up in the rorting, mainly in the so- a series of contests, including preselection for a called phantom memberships. Legislative Assembly seat, and also helped install The following day the state Labor member Police Minister Michelle Roberts as party for Perth, John Hyde, a member of the New President. Right-Left alliance, alleged in a confidential Documents evidencing these grubby matters report that high school and foreign students have been forwarded to the Police Commis- had been signed up as party members with- sioner and the WA corruption commission out their knowledge. The West Australian on for investigation. 23 April this year said: On radio 6PR on 7 April this year, the Po- In the report leaked to The West Australian, Mr lice Commissioner said that fraud allegations Hyde detailed cases in which he said Year 12 indicated a criminal offence. He said: students at Mount Lawley SHS were told that On our examination, there did appear to be a like- their memberships would be paid for a couple of lihood of a criminal offence. years if they signed up. One of the principal beneficiaries of the rort, The West Australian on 1 May said: Michelle Roberts, is both the Minister for The State Executive is currently split 119 to the Police and Emergency Services and the New Right-Left and 95 to the Centre-Old Right. President of the ALP in Western Australia. In But a splinter group within the New Right, said to WA we are now confronted with the possibil- be led by the ambitious Vince Catania, son of former MLA Nick, has set its sights on John ity of the Police Commissioner investigating, Hyde’s seat of Perth. or worse, his minister. If the WA Premier has any regard for notions of good government, … … … he should at least stand her aside until the The name that keeps popping up is John Hyde, inquiry is completed and the Police Commis- one MP said. sioner delivers his verdict on what charges Mr Hyde won the nomination for his safe seat of should be laid, if any, and against whom. Perth by swapping from the Centre to the Left. To the Centre-Right, that’s a hanging offence. If Mr
CHAMBER 23038 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Catania jumps to the Centre-Old Right, taking up Labor in government in WA is obsessed with to seven votes with him, Mr Hyde could be in power and who wields it. So much for the trouble. delivery of services and good government! The question arising from all of this turmoil Nuclear Energy: Waste Storage is: what is Premier Gallop doing to bring Senator WONG (South Australia) (1.41 order to his party and to the state govern- p.m.)—I rise to speak on an issue which I ment? The answer is: very little, given that have spoken about previously—the govern- he is hostage to the controlling faction of the ment’s continued attempt to make South day. The West Australian on 5 May this year Australia this country’s nuclear waste dump. reported on the success of Premier Gallop’s I want to speak to the Senate today about the re-attempt to establish some modicum of next step in the sorry saga of the Howard control over this scandal when it said: government’s disregard for the wishes of the By all accounts you could have cut the atmos- people of South Australia. We know that phere— South Australia has been chosen by this gov- inside the Labor Party room— ernment as the site for a nuclear waste facil- with a knife, that is if you could find one that ity, despite other suitable sites being identi- wasn’t buried deep between someone’s shoulders. fied through the EIS process. We know that We wait with bated breath to see what Pre- this government has ignored enormous oppo- mier Gallop does about Attorney-General sition from the South Australian community Jim McGinty; police minister Michelle Rob- in proceeding with its plans to dump nuclear erts; Minister for Consumer Affairs and Em- waste in South Australia. We also know that ployment Protection, John Kobelke; and this government has ridden roughshod over Chairman of the Public Accounts Commit- the wishes of the elected state government, tee, the member for Ballajura, John compulsorily acquiring the land for the site D’Orazio, who have all been clearly caught without negotiation—a matter which is still out as vote riggers under the same rules. the subject of legal challenge before the Premier Gallop said on 13 April 2004: South Australian Supreme Court. If a Labor Party MP is found to be engaged in Now the next sorry step in this saga has serious malpractice and that was proven by also been revealed. We know from freedom proper Labor Party processes, well they’re not the of information documents obtained by the sort of people we would want standing for the South Australian government that this gov- Labor Party. ernment has embarked on a taxpayer funded However, it is at the federal level where all campaign to change the minds of the people eyes will be on the Leader of the Opposition of South Australia so that we will no longer as he ponders what to do about his shadow oppose this dump. We know that the federal minister, who has been decisively caught out government has engaged expensive consult- as the leader of a group of serial branch ants to try and change the community’s mind stackers in clear contravention of Labor through various means. Frankly, if you read Party rules 15(a) to (q) inclusive. The Leader the FOI documents what is disclosed is a of the Opposition said on 10 April: range of what can only be described as Big Anyone who has broken the law will have no Brother tactics by this government as it seeks future in the Australian Labor Party ... I will en- to spread misinformation and its own propa- sure anyone who’s broken the law is placed right ganda about the nuclear dump. We also know outside the party. from the freedom of information documents
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23039 that the government kept the door open on 2000 and February 2001, which included the possibility of a medium-level dump and questions about not only the low-level dump, the possibility of a high-level dump, sourcing which was government policy, but also the nuclear waste from overseas, being placed in Pangea proposal to receive high-level nu- South Australia. clear waste from other countries into South Let me give some background regarding Australia—to import nuclear waste. this issue. The federal government has for a The question is: if the minister did cate- number of years been seeking to construct gorically rule this out in February 1999, why both a repository for low- and medium-level was it necessary to use taxpayers’ money to waste and also a high-level waste dump— fund a campaign to conduct polling— known as ‘the store’—which would be capa- including on the issue of the Pangea pro- ble of receiving waste from around the posal? It probably, to any fair-minded ob- world. It is also well known in South Austra- server, calls into question the reality of the lia that the American company Pangea Re- denial by the minister that this proposal sources had a proposal to site an interna- would proceed; it also calls into question tional nuclear waste repository in South Aus- other commitments that this government has tralia. This would involve South Australia given regarding the siting of a high-level receiving nuclear waste from around the dump in South Australia. Why, if Pangea’s world—hardly the sort of export earner one proposal for a high-level dump, including would have thought that we would want for foreign waste, was dead and buried in Febru- our state. ary 1999, was this government still exploring It is a matter of history that there was this option through its consultants, its re- enormous opposition to both of these pro- search and its polling of the South Australian posals in the South Australian community community? and in the face of this furious opposition, This raises serious questions regarding the prior to the last election, Senator Minchin assurances the South Australian community did an about-face on the issue of a high-level has received from the federal government on dump. Whilst he had previously left the door two issues: first, that it will not allow the open for both the repository—that is, the importation of foreign nuclear waste and, low- and medium-level dump—and the second, that it does not intend to site the store, or the high-level waste dump, being store for high-level waste in South Australia. sited in South Australia, he ruled this out An equally disturbing impression one gets prior to the last election. He also ruled out, when reading these freedom of information despite having previously left the door open, documents is the extent to which this gov- the Pangea proposal for a high-level dump ernment is willing to engage in its own ver- receiving nuclear waste from other countries sion of Big Brother, its own version of being sited in South Australia. He ruled this propaganda, to try and change the minds of out in February 1999—it was a relief to the South Australian community. These many people in South Australia that he did documents reveal quite a conscious cam- so—but, thanks to the FOI documents which paign to turn South Australian voters around. have been released, we now know that, de- I assume most senators know that it did not spite this categorical denial by the minister, work; the vast majority of South Australians the federal government kept its options open. and the state government are still implacably The federal government engaged consultants opposed to the dump. to conduct polling in December 1999, June
CHAMBER 23040 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
But the FOI documents really are an ex- seeking to change community opinion on the ample of the way in which this government issue. This brief says: is seeking to use taxpayers’ money to get out This would involve a concerted program of let- its own message. We all remember the A ters to the editor of the Advertiser and responding New Tax System ads—a shameful example and participating on talk radio programs. A sig- of taxpayers’ money being used to further a nificant public forum such as business lunch, for political agenda—and in these documents we example— see the government seeking to use public and a certain business organisation is funds to try and achieve a political result to named— its liking. One example is the discussion in … may provide a relatively secure forum for a the documents regarding the ‘I’m with Ivy’ well-known proponent of the repository to ad- campaign. For those of you who are not from dress opinion leaders in South Australia. Simi- South Australia, Ivy is a South Australian larly, the minister could host smaller lunches with pensioner who led the community based opinion leaders. campaign against the nuclear dump and The brief goes on to make some comments sponsored a petition, which many South Aus- about the media in South Australia, and the tralians signed, opposing the low-level and Adelaide Advertiser in particular. It is pretty medium-level dump in South Australia. In- instructive, when you read it, to look at how terestingly, what we have here is an email to this government goes about trying to change a public servant from someone above her media opinion. The following is also in the which says: brief from the consultant to government: The minister wants a short biography of our The Advertiser tends to set the media agenda main opponents in the Ivy campaign by about 11 and has been a vocal opponent of the facility. a.m. our time (pre-rally). While we understand attempts are being made to What we have here is a minister wanting to make contact with the editor, we should continue check up on those in the community who to push for a meeting with the editor or managing director and seek assistance to achieve a fair and actually opposed him. The only comment I balanced coverage. If this fails, the issue should would make, apart from the obvious one that be taken to the higher levels of News Limited. this is not the way we should be spending taxpayers’ money, is that he would have had It is a pretty interesting expose of the way the government tries to approach media a very long list if he wanted a biography of management and tries to ensure that people everyone associated with that campaign. An- run its lines and run its spin. I am pleased to other disturbing document in the FOI file we say the Advertiser has, in relation to this is- received was from the government’s consult- sue, continued to listen to its readership, con- ant to a public servant. In this document the tinued to be in touch with the South Austra- consultant describes his conversation with a lian community and continued to provide journalist, whom I shall not name, and he very fair reporting on the issue of the nuclear describes people opposed to the nuclear dump. What is disturbing for South Austra- waste facility as ‘antinuclear anarchists’. If lian taxpayers is the sort of campaign and that is the definition, it seems that we have a agenda that is clearly disclosed in these pretty anarchic state given that over 90 per cent of South Australians oppose this dump. documents. They are Big Brother tactics, tactics to try to disseminate misinformation The freedom of information documents about an issue to which the South Australian also detail, in the brief to the minister, quite a community is quite rightly opposed. detailed public relations scare campaign
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23041
Western Australia: Labor Government lians appreciate that this government’s good Budget 2004-05 financial management has allowed the gov- ernment to be able to pay some of that back Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- to the taxpayers, and that is what it is all sland—Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and about. It is important to emphasise that the Conservation) (1.52 p.m.)—I take the oppor- money that is available in this year’s budget tunity in summing up this debate on matters did not just float down from heaven; it is of public interest to note with very great there by a lot of hard work by Mr Howard, concern the revelations made by Senator Mr Costello, Mr Anderson and the rest of the Johnston on the corruption, vote rigging and government in properly and very carefully rorting in the Western Australian branch of managing our economy over the last several the Labor Party. That is the sort of thing that years. It is as a result of that hard work and I think would concern all Australians: the very sound and careful financial manage- vote rigging, the buying of votes, the signing ment that we have been able to provide a up of non-existent people—the sort of thing budget that I think will provide benefits to that really is un-Australian. I would certainly most Australians. hope that the more honest elements of the Labor Party would do something about the Most importantly, I was surprised that Western Australian branch. Senator Bartlett, as a fellow Queenslander, did not highlight the additional $656 million It seems that if you need a morbid, de- that will be available to the Queensland gov- pressing and despondent view of anything, ernment next year as result of the federal you can always rely on my Queensland col- budget and as result of the sound economic league Senator Bartlett to put it, and he was management of the Howard government. in his best form of despondency in his views Now, $656 million extra to the Queensland on life today when speaking on the budget. I budget is a very significant injection to my was surprised that Senator Bartlett did not home state of Queensland. With that addi- mention the very positive things in the tional money, I am quite confident that Mr budget for middle income earners and lower Beattie will be well able to afford, in his income earners. The significant advances in budget, reductions in stamp duty on family family tax benefit A will see $600 going to homes and reductions in that insidious tax those people immediately and another $600 that state governments involve themselves going to them very shortly. I am surprised in—that is, payroll tax. With all of this addi- that Senator Bartlett did not mention the very tional windfall money that the Queensland great initiatives in aged care, new funding— government will get from the Howard gov- $6 billion more—for education, and the sig- ernment, I am sure Mr Beattie will be able to nificant increase in spending on defence mat- do a number of good things. I would simply ters. urge Mr Beattie to look more widely than Senator Bartlett shares that very left-wing Brisbane when he spends this money. view of his party and the Greens particularly, As someone who lives in the country up in having cynicism about intelligence. They North Queensland, I am always concerned never seem to appreciate the need for intelli- that the Queensland state government’s view gence. I was just concerned that Senator of Queensland seems to finish at the bounda- Bartlett had to have this depressing view of ries of the south-east Queensland local au- the budget when there is such good news in thorities. While it is good to see south-east it for most Australians. I think most Austra- Queensland getting money, the Queensland
CHAMBER 23042 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 government has spent an inordinate amount keep the economy heading in the direction it on things like the Lang Park redevelopment, should. the Goodwill Bridge across the Brisbane QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE River—a walking bridge, I might say— Budget 2004-05 whilst, up in the sticks, we get little of Mr Beattie’s largess. But he now has 656 million Senator CONROY (2.00 p.m.)—My new dollars to help Queenslanders provide question is to Senator Coonan, the Assistant more schools and more hospitals, and I am Treasurer and Minister for Revenue. Is the certainly looking forward to seeing how Mr minister aware that the Howard-Costello Beattie will spend that windfall from the government continues to extract more in Howard government. bracket creep than it returns in tax cuts? Can the Minister for Revenue explain to the Sen- The other two things I was surprised ate why the tax cuts offered by the Howard Senator Bartlett did not mention include the government will return $1.9 billion in structural adjustment money that has been 2004-05 to taxpayers, but around $2.5 billion made available for the representative areas will be clawed back in bracket creep this program of the Great Barrier Reef Marine year? Park Authority. That will provide structural adjustment for fishermen who will lose in- Senator COONAN—I thank Senator come, for communities and other businesses Conroy for giving me the opportunity to ex- that might be in some way impacted upon by plain some of the budget measures that deal that very sound approach and sound envi- with the issue of bracket creep. The govern- ronmental management of the Great Barrier ment’s 2004 budget tax cuts come on top of Reef. I am also surprised Senator Bartlett did those already delivered through the new tax not mention the money that has been pro- system in 2000, which were $11 billion per vided—some $444 million—for the sugar year, and a further $2.4 billion in tax cuts in industry, which is such an important part of 2003. When taken together, these three tax Queensland. The sugar industry supports cuts will have more than returned bracket many communities up and down the coast of creep since 1996. In 2004-05, someone on Queensland, and the injection of $444 mil- average weekly earnings—around $40,000 lion will help the industry through a very under the new tax scales announced in the difficult time that has occurred through no 2004 budget—will be about $550 better off fault of the sugar industry. It is quite clear than if the tax scales had been indexed to the that farmers and businesses up in that area CPI. The finding that taxpayers are better off did need some support, and that has been is true for those earning half average weekly provided for in this budget. earnings or twice average weekly earnings. As a result of the government’s tax cuts, over The budget is obviously one which has 80 per cent of taxpayers will face a top mar- many benefits for all Australians. We are ginal tax rate of 30 per cent or less. Reduc- able to provide these benefits because of the tions in tax rates combined with real growth very good financial management by the in wages over the past nine years will have Howard government over the last several increased the real disposable income of the years, and I think most Australians would average individual earner in 2004-05 by 13 agree with us in thinking that this is a budget per cent. for all Australians. It is certainly a budget that will keep Australia moving forward and The notion that bracket creep is not re- turned is completely unsustainable. This
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23043 government is continuing to deliver ongoing Budget 2004-05 tax reform and structural tax reform. As a Senator COLBECK (2.04 p.m.)—My matter of fact, the combined effect of three question is to the Leader of the Government stages of tax reform has delivered significant in the Senate, Senator Hill. Will the minister tax cuts for all Australians. There has been inform the Senate how the Howard govern- some suggestion that this is only for the rich. ment’s responsible management of the Aus- That is also nonsense. Taxpayers earning tralian economy is providing Australians $20,000 paid $2,770 in tax prior to the new with greater family assistance, more afford- tax system. They now have a reduction of able health and aged care and personal in- around 23 per cent in tax. For those on come tax cuts? Is the minister aware of any $50,000 the reduction is around 21 per cent. alternative policies? By July 2005, if the Labor Party do not muck Senator HILL—I thank the honourable around and they pass this tax package, those senator for his question. Last night’s budget on $90,000 will get a reduction of around 18 continues the Howard government’s out- per cent. These are ongoing structural tax standing record of strong and responsible reforms that benefit all Australians and the economic management. The budget for the economy. year ahead will deliver a surplus of $2.4 bil- Senator CONROY—Mr President, I ask lion, the seventh surplus for this government. a supplementary question. Can the Minister This budget is designed to keep the economy for Revenue confirm that, whilst the gov- strong. The economy is strong because the ernment will return almost $5 billion in tax government took the hard but necessary de- cuts in 2007-08, almost $7 billion will be cisions to get the budget back into surplus. clawed back into Commonwealth revenue We remember that the Labor Party opposed through bracket creep in the same year? almost all of those decisions. Because of our Given that the government is only returning commitment to responsible economic man- to taxpayers part of the proceeds to Com- agement we can again deliver a dividend to monwealth revenue through bracket creep, Australian workers and their families. This is isn’t Prime Minister Howard just giving with a government that promises and deliver tax one hand but taking even more back with the cuts—$12 billion of tax cuts in the tax re- other? form package, $10 billion of tax cuts in last Senator COONAN—I thank Senator year’s budget and now a further $14.7 billion Conroy for the supplementary question. of new tax cuts announced in last night’s Senator Conroy appears not to understand budget. that bracket creep occurs when inflation These latest tax cuts will mean that more pushes taxable income into a higher tax than 80 per cent of taxpayers will have a top bracket, and of course this government has a rate of 30 per cent or less. In addition to the very good record on inflation. The govern- tax cuts, we are also delivering further assis- ment has a record of low inflation, averaging tance to Australian families, with increases in 2.4 per cent since March 1996. Interestingly, the family tax benefit, a new maternity pay- by contrast, under the previous Labor gov- ment of $3,000 and more child-care places. ernment inflation rose to 11 per cent, an av- In total, we will be investing more than $19 erage of 5.4 per cent over 13 years. If anyone billion in Australian families. We have deliv- listening to this broadcast is worried about ered more money for aged care, more money bracket creep, they had better be very afraid for education, more money for health, more of any return to a Labor government.
CHAMBER 23044 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 money for the environment and more money Parliament House since 1988. In just 16 for national security. We are giving greater years a number of people equivalent to the assistance to Australians who are saving for population of Australia has visited this build- their retirement. These commitments are ing to see democracy in action. As President fully funded within a budget that is in sur- I know that all senators will agree that that is plus. We do not spend money that we do not a wonderful thing to do. I warmly welcome have. We will maintain, again, a responsible Dr and Mrs Kelly to the Senate. surplus—this time one of some $2.4 billion. Honourable senators—Hear, hear! By contrast, the Labor Party say they will QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE support our new tax measures, but they claim Budget 2004-05 that on top of that they will give even greater tax cuts. We know that they have made Senator CONROY (2.10 p.m.)—My promises already of over $8 billion. We have question is to Senator Coonan, the Assistant a surplus of $2.4 billion and the Labor Party Treasurer and Minister for Revenue. Is the offer an extra $8 billion in cuts. What does minister aware that the budget papers con- this mean? This means the same old recipe of firm that the Howard-Costello government going back into deficits—that which Austra- remains the highest taxing government in lians experienced before with the conse- Australia’s history, with total taxes increas- quence of higher home loan interest rates, ing to $217 billion in the year ahead and with job losses and ultimately higher taxes. Their income taxes continuing to rise in every year policy platform, passed just four months ago, of the forward estimates? supports budget deficits. We know their re- Senator COONAN—I thank Senator cord: nine budget deficits in just 13 years. Conroy for continuing to give me an oppor- Labor broke their promise on the l-a-w tax tunity to explain some of the very good fea- cuts, they wrecked the Australian economy, tures of this budget. they put a million Australian workers out of Senator Faulkner—Try answering the work and they crippled Australian families question! with interest rates on home loans of 17 per Senator COONAN—The answer to the cent. If they are given the chance, they will question is that, as everyone would know do it again with irresponsible, unfunded and as we have constantly said in this promises to anyone who will listen. The les- place—in fact, I think most commentators son is: you cannot trust Labor to manage the have constantly reiterated the fact—Australia economy. The contrast is stark. We have seen is not, compared to OECD averages, a high- the benefits of the good economic manage- taxing government. In fact we are the sixth ment of the last years. There is a chance for lowest. That is not something that the gov- more of that if the Howard government is ernment assert without some evidence. You given the opportunity. (Time expired) only have to look at the OECD averages to DISTINGUISHED VISITORS know that this is correct. What is important The PRESIDENT—Order! I would like for the purposes of this question is that the to draw the attention of senators to the pres- Senate hear something about what the tax ence in the President’s gallery of two very policy of the government is designed to do. special guests: Mrs Robyn Kelly and Dr Paul Senator Faulkner—Answer the question! Kelly of Benalla in Victoria. Mrs Kelly this Senator COONAN—I have answered the morning became the 20 millionth visitor to question. Now I am telling you what our tax
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23045 policy does. The government believes that people who could actually make a greater the tax burden on all Australians should be contribution by working overtime, by look- kept as low as possible, consistent with being ing for promotions and by acquiring new able to provide services that the community skills. Over 80 per cent of taxpayers will face expects. People on middle incomes, for in- a top marginal tax rate of no more than 30 stance, who have been the beneficiaries of per cent for the next four years. That is very the threshold changes in this particular round important. Why does the government want to of tax reform—there have been three— achieve that? It wants to achieve that so that should not face the top rate of income tax. there is incentive in the tax system, so that The tax cuts that were announced last night people will take these opportunities and so reflect the reality that people on $60,000, that there is much more fairness in the sys- whilst they might be relatively well-off, are tem. People on the two top tax rates missed certainly not rich and should not be taxed at out on tax cuts back in 2000 due to the blind top marginal rates. opposition of the Labor Party. It will be a Senator Conroy seems to be complaining fairer system, it will create incentive and it that we are a high-taxed population. By the will put much more equity into the tax sys- same token, here we are now doing some- tem. That is why this government is not the thing to reduce the tax burden on people who highest taxing government and why it will can actually earn money, participate in the continue to provide incentives in the tax sys- work force and be globally competitive and tem. (Time expired) Senator Conroy seems to be complaining Senator CONROY—Mr President, I ask about that. The tax cuts will make Australia a supplementary question. Can you also con- more internationally competitive. A more firm that the average taxpayer paid approxi- competitive income tax structure will assist mately $10,000 in 1995-96 and $15,500 in us in retaining and ensuring the return of 2003-04, an increase of $5,500 over the pe- highly skilled workers, who are increasingly riod of the Howard government? Is it also internationally mobile. true, as indicated by Budget Paper No. 1, that The tax burden on the people on the two by 2007-08 the average taxpayer will be pay- highest thresholds should be raised so that ing a further $2,800 per year, a staggering there is much more competition and there is increase of 83 per cent since 1996? much more incentive for people to actually Senator COONAN—I do not know what work. At the moment you have situations more I can do other than tell Senator Conroy where people on quite modest incomes actu- one more time and tell the Senate that Aus- ally end up having a disincentive from ever tralia was the sixth lowest taxing nation of doing overtime or from taking any kind of the 30 members of the OECD in 2001 with a promotion because they are going to get into total tax burden of 30.1 per cent of GDP. It the high tax bracket. The whole policy of the was 6.8 percentage points lower than the government—we are not a high-taxing gov- OECD average of 36.9 per cent and it repre- ernment by OECD standards—is to reduce sents a decrease of 1.4 percentage points in the tax burden on Australians where we can, Australia’s total taxation level from 2000. If consistent with delivering good services. you look at the tax take, what has actually These tax cuts will increase incentives and fuelled some of the revenue that has enabled they will particularly assist people who can the government to make these far-reaching actually make this economy zing—those provisions in the tax system has been com- pany tax. Company tax has in fact been re-
CHAMBER 23046 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 duced from 36 per cent to 30 per cent. So the nurturing and raising of a child. This is a Senator Conroy’s question is full of contra- $19.2 billion package over five years, the dictions and it certainly does not prove that largest package for families that any gov- Australia is a high-taxing country. ernment has ever given families. It delivers a Budget 2004-05 $600 increase per child this year and it deliv- ers an increase in family tax benefit for those Senator BARNETT (2.16 p.m.)—My who are able to get family tax benefit A, an question is to the Minister for Family and increase of $600 this financial year and every Community Services, the Hon. Senator Kay financial year afterwards. This means that all Patterson. Will the minister inform the Sen- these families will be eligible for an addi- ate how the Howard government is putting tional $1,200 per child in the next 12 Australian families first through the delivery months. The Labor Party do not want to hear of greater family assistance as outlined in this because it is good news for families. We last night’s budget? Is the minister aware of have relaxed the income test for this benefit, any alternative policies? which will give more families access at Senator PATTERSON—I thank Senator higher rates. Barnett for his question. This budget is de- There has also been a change in the in- signed to keep our economy strong. It is come test for family benefit B, which will about continuing with our strategy of secur- allow more mothers—or fathers if they are ing a future for all Australians. It is about the secondary income earner—access to this supporting the backbone of the Australian payment while in part-time work. From society, the Australian family. The budget is 1 July 2005, when the mother or father re- about giving families opportunity and giving turns to work the income from employment families choices. As Mr Costello said last will not be counted against the eligibility for night, economic management is not an acci- the benefit already received. That is, the fam- dent and it is not a fluke. Getting the budget ily can keep the benefit they have already into surplus and getting rid of the debt re- received when the mother or, in some cases, quires hard work and hard yards and hard the father re-enters the work force. decisions. We will provide a new maternity payment This government will not spend money it without qualification for every mother on the does not have, unlike the Labor Party when it birth of a child. The payment will be a lump was in government. Also, unlike Labor, we sum of $3,000 from 1 July and will rise to will deliver on our promises. In net terms we $5,000 from 1 July 2008. We will also dra- have now reduced by $70 billion the $96 matically increase the availability of child- billion of Labor’s debt that we inherited. care places to help mothers and fathers to People know that when you reduce your debt balance their work and family commitments. you reduce the interest paid, and we are now In addition to announcements made in De- reducing the interest that we are paying on cember the government will add another Labor’s debt by $6 billion a year. As a result 30,000 outside school hours places to bring we can give families a social dividend. We the total of new places announced since De- can give more help for families. cember 2003 to 40,000. With regard to fam- Our More Help for Families program will ily day care places, an additional 1,500 fam- help more people into the work force. It will ily day care places will add to the 2,500 make it easier for mothers or fathers who are places announced in December. That brings juggling paid work or part-time work with the total since December 2003 to 4,000 addi-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23047 tional new family day care places—an 85 per Minister’s 1996 promise to govern ‘for all of cent increase in child-care places since this us’? Can the minister confirm that around government was elected. Altogether these 8.5 million or more than 80 per cent of Aus- changes will increase family assistance by tralian families and singles will not receive around $50 a week for a family on average one cent in tax cuts from last night’s budget? wages with a wife in part-time work and two Why doesn’t the 80 per cent of Australian children. (Time expired) families and singles deserve tax relief from Senator BARNETT—Mr President, I ask the Howard-Costello government? a supplementary question. The minister has Senator COONAN—Thank you for the clearly outlined some of the details of the question, Senator Sherry. What I was saying largest package to benefit families in Austra- in response to an earlier question from Sena- lian history. Can the minister further provide tor Conroy is that what the government has details on child care, interest rates and other done is to embark on ongoing structural tax benefits to families? Is the minister aware of reform that has been a work in progress. Peo- any alternative policies? ple who got benefits in various tax cuts are Senator PATTERSON—Thank you, as follows. The new tax system, introduced Senator Barnett. I am aware of alternative on 1 July 2000, represented a major restruc- policies of budget deficits, high unemploy- turing of the Australian tax system and it ment and high interest rates. They are the continued in the 2003-04 budget with only alternative policies that Labor can offer. thresholds being further adjusted across the But there will be a $14.7 billion cut in taxes board. In this budget, the top two tax thresh- over the next four years. From 1 July 2004 olds have been specifically targeted to ensure the 42 per cent threshold will increase from that the tax system continues to support re- $52,000 to $58,000. The 47 per cent thresh- wards from working. The combined effect of old is to be increased from $62,000 to the three stages of tax reform has been to $70,000. From 1 July 2005 the 42 per cent deliver significant tax cuts for all Austra- threshold will be further increased to lians. $63,000 and the 47 per cent threshold to Let me remind the Senate of what the $80,000. These tax cuts, as Senator Coonan benefits have been. Taxpayers earning has said, will mean that more than 80 per $20,000 paid $2,770 in tax prior to the new cent of taxpayers will have a top tax rate of tax system, including the Medicare levy, 30 per cent or less. It will boost retirement whereas taxpayers on that income would savings through the co-contribution. There is now pay only $2,145, a reduction of around $42 billion for health and aged care and $32 23 per cent in tax. For taxpayers on billion for education. I am very proud that $50,000—around average weekly earnings— there is additional support for young carers, their tax reduction is around 21 per cent. And and that is a very important part of our by 1 July this year, if the Labor Party stops budget—a social dividend for good eco- mucking around and passes the benefits of nomic management. the tax package, a taxpayer on $90,000 who Budget 2004-05 paid $32,902 in tax prior to the new tax sys- tem, excluding the Medicare levy, will pay Senator SHERRY (2.22 p.m.)—My $26,912 in tax in 2005-06. That will be a question is to Senator Coonan, the Minister reduction of around 18 per cent. So it is cer- for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer. Does tainly true that the Prime Minister has said— the minister for revenue recall the Prime and it is being delivered—that all Australians
CHAMBER 23048 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 will benefit from the tax cuts. This govern- but people must have been under a rock if ment has in fact governed for all Australians. they have not heard that the new family tax The rationale for adjusting the threshold is benefits will benefit those people with fami- clear: many highly skilled Australians, in- lies and, in particular, mothers who are trying cluding our young people, are internationally to return to the work force and who are oth- mobile and can choose to work anywhere in erwise disadvantaged by the taper rates, the world. Why would they work here if the which have now been significantly in- tax thresholds and the tax rates are simply creased. They have certainly been signifi- prohibitive? The personal income tax system cantly increased from when they were under is simply one factor in the decisions of Aus- Labor. Lower- to middle-income earners— tralian skilled workers to seek work overseas anyone who is on a low income—will also and in attracting skilled people from other significantly benefit from the co-contribution countries who are considering coming to arrangements; it is simply not true to say that work in Australia. Obviously the Labor Party lower-income earners will get nothing from has also opposed our doing something to this budget. Lower-income earners have got help expats with tax. a restructured tax system that has delivered them substantial reduction in their tax rates The significant increase in the top tax over the staged process of these tax reforms. threshold will improve Australia’s ability to They are going to get benefits from the co- compete as a preferred place to work. It re- contribution, and certainly families are front turns incentives. It helps all Australians, and centre of getting the benefits of these tax when you take into account this is a staged cuts. (Time expired) process, and it returns some fairness to those who were otherwise denied tax benefits in Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners 2000 when the Labor Party opposed the op- Senator BARTLETT (2.29 p.m.)—My portunity to increase those thresholds in the question is to the Minister for Defence, Senate. So not only does it return incentives Senator Hill. I refer to the minister’s state- and increase competitiveness but it actually ment to the Senate yesterday that Australia is returns some fairness in the tax system that not subject to obligations ensuring proper was devised in 2000 that was so short- treatment where Australia is associated with sightedly opposed by the Labor Party. the capture of Iraqi personnel. Is it the case, Senator SHERRY—Mr President, I ask a as reported, that Brigadier Maurie McNarn supplementary question. Why hasn’t the signed an agreement on behalf of Australia to minister provided a response to my question ensure that prisoners captured by our forces about why 8.5 million families and singles are treated in accordance with the Geneva have been excluded from any tax cut in this convention? Has Australia ensured that this budget, except perhaps that they are not in- agreement has been and will continue to be ternationally mobile? Can the minister for met? revenue explain to the Senate why someone Senator HILL—It is true that an agree- on the income of the Treasurer, Mr Costello, ment was signed relating to the transfer of deserves a $42 a week tax cut while Austra- detained persons between the parties to the lians earning less than $52,000 a year do not agreement. That was released last year, so receive one cent? there is no secret about that. Senator COONAN—I do not know Opposition senators interjecting— whether or not Senator Sherry was listening,
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23049
Senator HILL—The Labor Party said the families don’t get it weekly, and the ta- that they revealed it this week, but actually it bles also include superannuation co- was on the public record last year. The point contribution payments that families will not I was making to the honourable senator yes- access for 30 to 40 years. Minister, isn’t the terday was that it did not apply to any in- government just up to its old tricks again in a stances where Australians in the Iraq conflict bid to get re-elected? were associated with the capture of individu- Senator PATTERSON—Senator Collins als. I thought I had explained that in full yes- has fallen for the two-card trick: Mr Swan terday. feeds the lines and Senator Collins repeats Senator BARTLETT—Mr President, I them. It is just like one of those puppets in a ask a supplementary question. Is the minister puppet show: Mr Swan sits behind Senator seriously saying to the Senate that Australia Collins moving his mouth and she speaks. makes no direct effort to ensure that prison- That is what it is like—a mannequin. Senator ers captured by our forces are properly Collins is the Senate mannequin for Mr treated by those whom we hand them over Swan. When Mr Swan says something, Sena- to? tor Collins comes in and repeats it. Senator Senator HILL—I will say it again: we Collins ought to learn that ever since Mr did not capture prisoners and hand them over Swan has been here—when Senator New- to another party. In each instance they were man was minister, when Senator Vanstone in possession of that other party from the was minister—we have had to contend with beginning. The other party was always going Mr Swan misrepresenting the facts. Senator to be either the United States or the United Collins ought to know better. Senator Collins Kingdom, and in any event we have every ought to rise above that. The press gallery reason to have had confidence in our coali- and the public know that Mr Swan always tion colleagues. tries to twist the truth because he does not want to hear the fact that families on family Budget 2004-05 tax benefit A will get $600 for each child this Senator JACINTA COLLINS (2.31 year. They will get an increase of $600 in p.m.)—My question is to Senator Patterson, their family tax benefit when they put in Minister for Family and Community Ser- their tax return this year, next year and the vices. Can the minister confirm that the year after, and they will also have the oppor- cameo tables presented in last night’s budget tunity to take advantage of Senator Coonan’s do not show the actual gain in weekly dis- co-contribution. If they were to put away $2 posable incomes families will experience a week, they would get $150 from the gov- after 1 July this year? For instance, Minister, ernment in a top-up. isn’t it the case that, for a dual income family Senator Sherry—To get the maximum with two children—one under five—on benefit it is $1,000. $65,000 per annum, the claimed weekly gain of $36.97 per week will translate into a zero Senator PATTERSON—They do not dollar actual increase in their weekly family have to have $1,000. It is a maximum of income each week from 1 July? Don’t the $1,000 when their income is $28,000, and it cameo tables use the second stage of tax cuts tapers off. To get any benefit, they only have that will not be delivered for another year? to put in any amount up to $1,000. The They attribute a pro rata weekly benefit of maximum benefit is $1,000—but you would the end of year $600 debt offset even though think they have to have the whole $1,000.
CHAMBER 23050 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Families know for the first time in their lives ent children, and isn’t it blatantly misleading that if they put away $1 they will get to claim a weekly co-contribution gain on the $1.50—150 per cent—if their income is less one hand without taking into account the than $28,000. income forgone by these families to achieve Labor does not like it. Labor does not it? want to think about the future, but families Senator PATTERSON—What I can are thinking about 30 to 40 years time and guarantee is that families who are eligible for the fact that they need to provide for their family tax benefit A will get $600. Senator future. We are giving them that opportunity Collins referred to a family with two chil- with a super contribution which is doable for dren. That family is eligible for family tax them. With anything up to $1,000, they will benefit A. They will get $600 for the first be matched $1.50 for every $1 when their child and $600 for the second child— income is $28,000, decreasing to $58,000. It $1,200—before the end of this financial year benefits families. When Labor was in gov- and then when they put in their tax return ernment and you had $96 billion of debt, you they will get an increase in their family tax were borrowing from the next generation to benefit A of $600 for the first child and $600 pay for this generation. for the second child. That is a significant Senator Sherry—Where do they find the amount of money. $1,000 if they earn less than $28,000? Some of them may choose to put a small The PRESIDENT—Senator Sherry, amount of that into Senator Coonan’s super- shouting across the chamber is disorderly. annuation co-contribution. If they earn less than $28,000 they will get $1.50 for every Senator PATTERSON—We have actu- dollar they put in. They are getting an addi- ally managed this economy. We have re- tional $600 for each child before the end of duced debt and we are in a position to give the financial year and they are getting an families a social dividend. You do not like increase of $600 in their family tax benefit A that because it does not fit with the fact that if they eligible this financial year and every when you were in government you had debt, financial year after. The Labor Party do not high interest rates and high unemployment. want to hear it because we have managed Senator JACINTA COLLINS—Mr this economy and now we are giving a social President, I ask a supplementary question. dividend to families. (Time expired) The minister has not addressed the question. Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners She has not dealt with the fact that the budget documents count stage 2 tax cuts 12 Senator BROWN (2.38 p.m.)—My ques- months in advance. As another example for tion is to the Minister representing the Minis- the minister, isn’t it the case that for a single ter for Foreign Affairs. The government has, income family with two children—one under post invasion of Iraq, justified the invasion 5—on $30,000 per annum, the claimed on the basis of removing the tyrant Saddam weekly gain of $34.62 per week will trans- Hussein. I ask the government how it is that late into a zero dollar actual increase in their it has allowed thousands of Iraqi citizens, weekly family income each week from including those who opposed Saddam Hus- 1 July? Isn’t it the case that the cameo tables sein, to be held in prisons without rules, exclude the income forgone by families to which has allowed them to be subject to achieve the superannuation co-contribution, cruel and degrading treatment and to be de- when they need that money for their depend- prived of their rights—including an esti-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23051 mated 90 per cent of people in those jails Iraqi people who will have the chance to who are estimated to be innocent? Is it not elect their own government, Iraqi people true that Saddam Hussein is being coddled who will put in place a system of justice that under the Geneva convention, which guaran- will ensure fair trials for the future, Iraqi tees him access to family, food and health people who will have the chance to try Sad- and an absolute prohibition on cruel, degrad- dam Hussein under that system. ing and humiliating treatment? I for one am proud of what Australia is Senator HILL—It is true that the Geneva doing and I am particularly proud of what convention applies to Saddam Hussein the the Australian Defence Force is doing to as- same way it applies to anyone else. I am con- sist in achieving that goal at considerable fident that Saddam Hussein will receive a risk. The process of transition to an Iraqi fair trial, which is more than he gave the government is taking place. We expect the 300,000 Iraqis that he murdered. Australia interim government to be appointed by the participated in a coalition to remove a threat end of this month. We are expecting en- associated with weapons of mass destruction. dorsement of that by the Security Council of It was evident— the United Nations next month. We are ex- Senator Robert Ray interjecting— pecting an electoral process in the next six months—the second six months of this Senator Kemp interjecting— year—under the authority of the United Na- The PRESIDENT—Order! Senator tions. We are expecting democratic elections Kemp and Senator Ray, chatting across the in January of next year. We are expecting the chamber is disorderly. I remind you of stand- Iraqi people to devise their own constitution. ing order 72. We are expecting them to have a better fu- Senator Forshaw interjecting— ture. Senator HILL—I missed the point, I am Senator Brown—Mr President, I raise a sorry. I am trying to answer Senator Brown’s point of order. My question was specifically question. about the condition of prisoners, including The PRESIDENT—Senator Hill, ignore thousands of innocent people being held in the interjections and address your remarks the prisons of Iraq. I ask that the minister through the chair. answer that question. Senator HILL—Australia participated in The PRESIDENT—There is no point of the coalition to remove a threat associated order, Senator Brown. You know that I can- with weapons of mass destruction. It was not direct the minister on how to answer the evident in the end that that could not be question. I remind the minister that there is achieved without the removal of Saddam one minute and 11 seconds left. Hussein and his regime. That has been Senator HILL—Senator Brown wanted achieved. As a result of that the Iraqi people an assurance that Saddam Hussein would be now have the chance of a better future. Aus- protected by the provisions of the Geneva tralia and other countries, some 32 of which convention. He specifically asked that. I give have forces in Iraq, are assisting the Iraqi him the assurance that that will be the case. I people to achieve that goal. It is not an easy give him the assurance that Saddam Hussein task but we are nevertheless committed to is being well fed, well looked after and re- helping stabilise Iraq, reconstruct Iraq and ceiving proper health care and that he will transfer sovereignty to the Iraqi people— get a fair trial.
CHAMBER 23052 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Senator BROWN—What a shocking an- families who are eligible for family tax bene- swer: that this government should protect fit A—as I have said and I will keep say- one prisoner—Saddam Hussein—but forget ing—$600 for each child before the end of about the other 20,000. Mr President, I ask a the financial year, and we are increasing supplementary question. I ask you about the family tax benefit A by $600 for each finan- 20,000 and the humiliation of them. I ask the cial year for each child for eligible families. minister about the 20,000, most of whom it Mr Swan has put out innumerable com- is expected are innocent, in the jails which ments about what he might do using last Saddam Hussein used to run. Where are the year’s income. Then he went off that and Geneva rules for them? Why has this gov- used family tax benefit A as an assessment ernment not spoken up for them? Are you for their baby payment. Then he said he was really proud of that? going to get people to put in quarterly tax Senator HILL—All prisoners are entitled returns. I am sure families will love to be to the protection of the Geneva convention. putting in a tax return every couple of That is the position of the Australian gov- months! That will be very demanding for ernment. We hold certain values that are con- families. We have put a range of measures in sistent with the Geneva convention. That is place: new forms for families, which we paid why we have signed the protocol. We adhere particular attention to designing; and new to those values and we put them into prac- choices about how you can have your family tice. tax benefit A and family tax benefit B paid to Budget 2004-05 you. What we are doing—and Labor do not like this—is giving to families who are eligi- Senator JACINTA COLLINS (2.45 ble for family tax benefit A an increase of p.m.)—My question is again to Senator Pat- $600 for each child each year. Under Labor, terson, Minister for Family and Community when you got an underpayment of your fam- Services. Why has the Howard government ily benefit, family allowance or assistance to ignored the real and systemic problems with families payment, the Labor Party did not the family tax benefit program in last night’s top it up. When we had legislation in this budget? Can the minister confirm that Aus- chamber to actually give a top-up to 35,000 tralian families will continue to rack up tax families who had not put in their tax returns, debts year after year through no fault of their it took the Independents in the chamber to own simply because they work some unex- assist in passing it. Labor opposed it. So, pected overtime or, for instance, a child fin- when there was an opportunity to assist fami- ishes school? Why is there no solution on the lies, what did Labor do? They opposed it. horizon from this government, and why in- They will carp about every aspect of this stead do families get a stopgap bandaid because they do not like the fact that when measure of $600 to pay off debts to the we manage the economy we can actually Commonwealth government that they should give dividends to families by not borrowing never have accrued in the first place? from the future. Senator PATTERSON—Where a mother Senator JACINTA COLLINS—My returns to work after the birth of a child—or supplementary question is: isn’t it the case the father, in that case, if he is the primary that this payment has been deliberately de- carer—if the family has had the family tax signed to be delivered at the end of the tax benefit throughout the year it will be able to year rather than fortnightly because, rather keep that family tax benefit. We are giving than it being an increase, it is to be used to
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23053 offset family tax debts? Given that over lia. We have an ageing population. We have 600,000 families are currently carrying debts strong demand for aged care accommoda- of more than $650 million, isn’t it the case tion. Senator Ferris would know that the that one in three families receiving family government commissioned Professor Hogan tax benefits will never see their $600 pay- to review arrangements in aged care, particu- ment because it will be directly clawed back larly the pricing of aged care. I know all by the $900 average family benefit debt senators have taken a close interest in the which your flawed system continues to de- progress of that review and of course the liver each year? Why don’t you cure the sick government’s response. I am pleased to re- family tax benefit system instead of applying port to the Senate on behalf of the Minister another bandaid, an election bribe? for Ageing that the Treasurer announced last Senator PATTERSON—This govern- night a $2.2 billion package—a historically ment has given families more assistance than large figure—for the funding of aged care in they have ever had before. This is the largest Australia. It addresses the issues raised by package for families that they have ever had. Professor Hogan’s report. I think in some Families under Labor, when they got an un- ways it is fair to say, from the reading that I derpayment, never got a top-up. When we have done on the package and the review gave them the opportunity to give a top-up to which I have had a chance to look at over- 35,000 families who had put in their tax re- night and today, that in some respects it has turns late, Labor opposed that, and it took the gone further and come up with some even Independents to support us. These measures better ideas than the Hogan review itself. we have put in place will give families $600 The core of the package seeks to address more for each child if they are eligible for the operating revenue for aged care facilities. FTBA this year. If they are eligible for It provides for an initial up-front payment of FTBA, they will get an increase of $600 in $3,500 per aged care place across Australia their family tax benefit for each child. That is prior to 30 June. It therefore assists with not what they will get: a $600 increase in their only operating grants but also capital struc- family tax benefit for every child if they are ture, with about a billion dollars going into eligible for FTBA. Labor cannot cope with the capital requirements of aged care facili- the fact that we have managed the economy ties across Australia. Very importantly, it and we are able now to deliver to families provides something like 27,875 new aged this year. (Time expired) care places, which include aged care facili- Health and Ageing: Aged Care ties but, very importantly for many older Australians, a doubling of the number of Senator FERRIS (2.50 p.m.)—My ques- places outside aged care facilities. It has tion is to the Minister representing the Minis- measures to ensure more older Australians ter for Ageing, Senator Ian Campbell. Will can get care outside aged care facilities to the minister advise the Senate of measures stay with their families and stay in their the Howard government is taking to secure homes for longer. A doubling of that will be the future of aged care for older Australians? welcomed by many Australians. Is the minister aware of any alternative pro- posals? Senator Ferris will be particularly pleased to know that, as part of the 13,030 places that Senator IAN CAMPBELL—I thank will be available in the next 12 months Senator Ferris for the question. It is one of across Australia, there will be 650 places in the great and important issues facing Austra- her state of South Australia. Over the next
CHAMBER 23054 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 three years, this will build up to a total of duced the amount of money paid on debt 1,675 new places in South Australia. I have interest servicing by $5.57 billion a year. the figures. If any other senators from other That is $5.57 billion that the alternative gov- states need details I am sure the minister, ernment—the Labor Party—when in power Julie Bishop, or I would be happy to provide used to pay back in interest on their massive them. For example, in my home state of debt. They used to spend more on paying off Western Australia, 770 new places will be debt than they did on education. By strong available in this first year, building up to economic management year after year, run- 1,890. In the big population centres, such as ning surplus budgets, we have been able to New South Wales, there will be another reduce interest payments, which has allowed 8,575 places. In Victoria, there will be 6,555. us to provide better care for older Australians I know many Tasmanians are interested, and and to fund this very important community you would have a particular interest, Mr and social infrastructure. President. There will be 635 places in Tas- Family Services: Child Care mania. Senator WONG (2.56 p.m.)—My ques- The funding package is a very important tion is to Senator Minchin, Minister for Fi- measure. It is addressing not only the capital nance and Administration and Minister rep- needs but also, very importantly, the govern- resenting the Treasurer. Does the minister ance of aged care facilities. There are condi- recall that child-care workers on the mini- tional payments for aged care facilities that mum wage were, against the wishes of this improve their governance. More money is Howard government, last week awarded a being put into scholarships for nurses. Op- $19 pay rise, bringing their pay rate up to portunities to ensure aged care workers re- $467 a week or $24,300 a year? Can the ceive better remuneration and better training, minister confirm that at least $6 of this in- and improvements across the board, will see crease is immediately handed over to the that the quality of aged care continues to im- Howard government in tax? Why did those prove. I have been asked about alternative child-care workers without dependants on policies. We know what wreckage Labor left $24,000 a year get absolutely no tax relief in the aged care sector when they were in from yesterday’s budget? Why does the power. We have not seen any alternatives to Howard government maintain the tax slug on date. (Time expired) the lowest paid workers caring for our chil- Senator FERRIS—Mr President, I ask a dren, including taking a third of their mini- supplementary question. Could the minister mum wage increase last week? further expand on the issue that he had just Senator MINCHIN—The government begun to comment on in relation to alterna- has made comment on that wage decision tive policies? that was recently awarded. We were sur- Senator IAN CAMPBELL—I do want to prised by that decision because there is no make a couple of points about alternative doubt that there is a direct connection be- policies but I also want to comment on the tween a general wage rise of that order and fact that we are able to invest $2.2 billion in the impact on employment prospects. A lot aged care because of the quality economic of commentary was sensibly made about the management of this government. We have lack of wisdom of that decision and its im- reduced the debt repayment burden by deliv- pact on the job prospects of many Austra- ering budgets with surpluses. We have re- lians. The point was also made that the on-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23055 costs for employers of that particular wage This budget endeavours to complete the rise would match the wage rise, equally hav- process of income tax reform that we began ing a deleterious effect on employment pros- in 2000, despite the trenchant opposition of pects and the subtractions from it. the ALP, to ensure that not only low-income Obviously there is a tax system and there earners—who did receive the benefit of in- is a tax obligation on those in employment to come tax changes back then—but also those pay tax. The point has been made repeatedly on middle incomes are prevented from be- that we had a cohesive program for tax re- ginning to pay the 47 per cent rate. I am very form, which we brought down in the year proud of the fact that, as a result of the pack- 2000, that specifically addressed the prob- age we brought down last night, we will have lems in the income tax system right across a situation where 80 per cent of Australian the board. The whole point of the goods and income tax earners will pay a marginal tax services tax reform was to take the extraor- rate no higher than 30 per cent. That is a dinary burden of taxation in this country off critical reform. It comes on top of the very income tax. This country had got into a very important reform of tax in relation to lower dangerous situation where the burden of income earners which we did manage to in- overall taxation was increasingly falling on troduce back in 2000. personal income tax. Senator WONG—Mr President, I ask a We had to do something to reform the sys- supplementary question. Why will child-care tem of indirect tax and the disastrous whole- workers get no tax relief from last night’s sale sales tax system that we inherited from budget when the Treasurer himself will get a Labor. That was the whole point of bringing tax cut of $42 a week? in an across-the-board goods and services Senator MINCHIN—At the risk of re- tax—an across-the-board indirect tax sys- peating myself, I make the point that we did tem—which relieved the burden on personal cut the lower income tax rates back in 2000. income tax. Despite the opposition of the We cut the Labor Party’s 20 per cent rate to Labor Party, we did manage to get through 17 per cent. We cut the 34 per cent rate to 30 this chamber substantial tax relief for lower per cent. The family tax benefit will obvi- income earners as part of that comprehensive ously benefit child-care workers. Any child- reform of taxation. The one thing we did care worker with children themselves will achieve was tax reform and tax reduction for receive $600 extra per child as a result of the lower income earners as part of that compre- fantastic reforms we have made to the family hensive package. tax benefit system. Unfortunately, we were not successful in Senator Hill—Mr President, I ask that having the full comprehensive goods and further questions be placed on the Notice services tax applied. Therefore the tax re- Paper. form which we wanted to bring in in relation QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: to higher income earners, given the disincen- ADDITIONAL ANSWERS tive effect of very high marginal income tax Iraq: Treatment of Prisoners rates cutting in at relatively low income lev- els, was not successful because of the oppo- Senator HILL (South Australia— sition of the Australian Labor Party—who Minister for Defence) (3.01 p.m.)—I have an ensured that the very high income tax rates answer from Minister Downer to a question continued to cut in at relatively low levels. raised with me by Senator Evans yesterday. I
CHAMBER 23056 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 seek leave to have that incorporated in Han- procedure by which this Optional Protocol was sard. adopted by vote, rather than by consensus. Leave granted. The Optional Protocol establishes a Sub- Committee of the Committee Against Torture to The answer read as follows— visit places of detention in countries which are The Minister for Foreign Affairs was aware of Parties to the Protocol. Becoming Party to the reporting of a media release issued by US Central Protocol would constitute a standing invitation to Command on 16 January 2004. The release stated the Sub-Committee to visit. The Government has that an investigation was being initiated into re- made clear, in the context of its concerns about ported incidents of detainee abuse. But no spe- the operation of the UN treaty body system, that it cific information, including on the abuses at Abu will agree to visits by such committees only Ghraib prison, was included. The US Government where there is a compelling reason to do so. did not formally notify the Australian Govern- The Joint Standing Committee on Treaties has ment. recently considered the necessity and domestic The Minister for Foreign Affairs only became implications of the Optional Protocol for Austra- aware of the egregious abuses at Abu Ghraib lia. The Committee’s Report, tabled on 23 March prison when photographs appeared recently in the 2004, recommended against ratification of the media. Optional Protocol at this time. The Committee’s The Minister for Foreign Affairs abhors these majority Report recognised many of the same incidents and welcomes the investigations and problems with the Optional Protocol as main- prosecutions being taken by US and UK authori- tained by the Government. ties. As the Committee also noted, Australia “is a Military Detention: Australian Citizens leader in human rights standards” and “there is no suggestion that the independent national preven- Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— tative mechanisms now in place are inadequate in Minister for Justice and Customs) (3.01 Australia,” thus making ratification of the Op- p.m.)—Yesterday I was asked a question by tional Protocol unnecessary. Senator Kirk in relation to Australia signing QUESTION TIME the optional protocol to the Convention The PRESIDENT (3.02 p.m.)— Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Yesterday during question time a point of Degrading Treatment or Punishment. I un- order was raised about an interjection across dertook to obtain further details. I have those the chamber by Senator Chris Evans to the details now and I seek leave to have them incorporated in Hansard. Minister for Defence, Senator Hill. I have now listened to the tape of the relevant part Leave granted. of proceedings. I have reviewed the Hansard The answer read as follows— and taken advice on this matter. Any imputa- The Government supports international action tion, whether in a statement or a question, against torture and deplores such behaviour wher- that an honourable senator lied is unparlia- ever and whenever it occurs. However, the Gov- mentary and has been consistently ruled so ernment has stated on numerous occasions that it by me and my predecessors in the chair. I has procedural and substantive concerns with the think that there was such an imputation in an Optional Protocol. interjection by Senator Evans. Senator Evans The Government believes that human rights trea- said yesterday that he would withdraw any ties should be adopted by consensus, rather than remark if the chair determined it was unpar- by vote, to ensure they are broadly supported. The liamentary. I therefore invite Senator Evans Government was therefore disappointed at the to withdraw the imputation.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23057
Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- I can see Senator Mason in the chamber, a tralia) (3.03 p.m.)—Mr President, if the man who has been known to wear red jump- Hansard recorded interjection is ruled by ers around the town. I do not mind being you as unparliamentary, as I indicated yes- photographed with you, Senator Mason. If terday I am happy to withdraw it. So I with- the Treasurer does not want to be photo- draw it. graphed with you, I cannot speak for him. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: There is an embarrassing report in the paper TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS today that the Treasurer ran out of a restau- rant and would not be seen there in case his Budget 2004-05 photo was taken. That is what it says in the Senator CONROY (Victoria) (3.03 paper today, Senator Mason. p.m.)—I move: The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator That the Senate take note of the answers given Conroy, your remarks should be addressed to by ministers to questions without notice asked the chair. today relating to the 2004-05 Budget. Senator CONROY—I accept that ad- Yesterday’s budget once again demonstrated monishment, Mr Deputy President. We read that the Howard government, when faced that the Treasurer ran into the Canberra night with a choice between its own political inter- rather than be photographed with Senator ests and the national interest—or putting Mason. He pulled his hood up over his head forward a plan to solve the punishing tax and ran out of the restaurant. rates it has created for Australian families— will look after itself. This budget provides Senator Mason interjecting— nothing for three out of five Australian fami- Senator CONROY—He is not the first— lies. They do not receive a cent in tax relief you are right, Senator Mason—and I am sure or family assistance. Let me say that again he will not be the last. That is exactly what just to make it absolutely clear: 60 per cent we have here. We have the Treasurer of this of Australian families do not get a cent in country running out of the chamber pulling this budget. the hood over his head to hide the fact that Labor believe that labourers, technicians, he has given one in five Australians a tax cut. office workers and shop assistants also de- It is a case of big talk but no action. This serve tax relief. We believe they deserve $1.9 billion is less than the famous ‘milk- some recompense for the money that they shake and sandwich’ tax cut of last year that have been shovelling into this government’s was given to Australian families. It does not coffers. Why should only one in five Austra- compensate for the bracket creep next year. lians get any tax relief in this budget? That is The government gives $1.9 billion in tax cuts the question that the majority of Australians but claws back $2.5 billion in bracket creep should be asking today. If you listen to the from the same people it is giving the tax cuts feedback on radio at the moment, you will to. This is a government that gives with one hear that that is the question they are asking: hand but takes with the other. That is what ‘What on earth happened to us?’ This is a the record of this government is: it gives government that promised tax relief. This is a with one hand and takes with the other. government that was going to fix the tax sys- The budget papers revealed yesterday that tem. Why next year does the Howard gov- this is, and continues to be, the highest tax- ernment return $1.9 billion in tax cuts? ing government in Australia’s history. They have all the tricks in the world to hide this
CHAMBER 23058 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 figure and they have all the denials. They Campbell said today in question time, we say, ‘The GST is not really our tax; it just have saved billions of dollars in interest in so passed through this chamber.’ Senator doing. Inflation under the Labor Party aver- Collins, I am sure you will remember that we aged about 5.2 per cent—do you remember voted on the GST. It is a Commonwealth tax that? Under the Liberal government it is now but according to this government it is not a under three per cent. Inflation, which cor- Commonwealth tax. So they try the fudges rodes society and corrodes investment, was again, year in and year out. Do not worry part of the Labor Party franchise. about the Bureau of Statistics or the Auditor- Remember that mortgage rates were up to General; they say: ‘It’s a Commonwealth tax. about 17 per cent? The average Australian Stop fiddling the books.’ This is the highest battlers could not afford to buy a home and taxing government in Australia’s history and they certainly could not afford to repay the there is a reason for that. I would like to re- loan. That was part of the Labor Party fran- peat the figures that I mentioned in my ques- chise that Mr Keating spoke so glowingly tion—so ineptly avoided by Senator Coonan about. The Labor franchise was high mort- earlier. I mentioned earlier that in 1995-96 gage rates. Worse still was the unemploy- the average taxpayer paid $10,000 to the ment rate under Labor. Do you know what government. In 2003-04 that figure is now their franchise was? They had a franchise on $15,500. That is right: $5,000 more. (Time an unemployment rate of over 10 per cent. expired) That was the franchise of the Labor Party. Senator MASON (Queensland) (3.08 More than one million people were unem- p.m.)—Mr Deputy President, isn’t this a ter- ployed. That was their franchise—and worse rific budget? I commend to you the Budget again. at a Glance document that the government Mortgages rates today are down below has issued. It gives a marvellous summary of seven per cent and the unemployment rate is what the government has done. The only below six per cent. The franchise of the Aus- reason we could do so much for families, cut tralian Labor Party for all those years in of- income tax and boost retirement savings is fice was fundamentally flawed. Do you that we have been responsible since 1996— know what the flaw was? The flaw was the unlike the Australian Labor Party. The other big lie of the accord. Their franchise was the day I was listening to the ABC—I listen to big lie of the accord, under which the living the ABC—and Mr Keating was on the radio. standards of average Australians actually Mr Keating said: ‘The only reason it is so fell. That was their franchise. Government easy for the Liberal Party these days is be- debt was way up, inflation was way up, cause they have adopted our franchise. The mortgage rates were way up, unemployment Labor Party made all the reforms. The Lib- was way up and real wages were right down. eral Party has adopted our franchise and now That was the Labor Party franchise. The only it’s all easy. It’s easy for Costello. It’s easy reason we can do all the things in this for Howard. It’s easy for the government.’ budget—which is a terrific budget for Aus- I think it is a good thing, as Senator Con- tralian families, for investment, for business roy mentioned, to talk a little bit about his- and for the future—is because we did not tory. Let us talk about the franchise of the borrow their franchise; we developed a new Labor Party. Their franchise was net gov- one. Do you know what we are going to do? ernment debt of $100 billion. We have paid We are going to give the Australian people a back about $70 billion and, as Senator Ian fiscal outlook of $2.4 billion in surplus and
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23059 we are going to spend $36.7 billion in new financial pressure. The critical question is: assistance to families, tax cuts and increased why are they suffering under financial pres- incentives to boost retirement savings. sure? Senator Conroy highlighted the first This budget also includes the largest aspect of that: they have been suffering un- package of assistance for families ever, with der the bracket creep that this government an additional $19.2 billion over the next five has not addressed and there are many peo- years. That is more money than has ever ple—as, again, Senator Conroy high- been given to families in the history of this lighted—who get nothing at all out of this Commonwealth. That is our franchise and budget. we can only do it because of responsible Even where the government represents to economic management under the Howard- be delivering benefits to families, it is no Costello government. There has been a lot of surprise to people who have followed the talk today about cutting income tax. Reduc- history of this government’s record with tions in personal tax worth $14.7 billion over families to see what misleading things are four years will improve work rewards. This occurring there as well. The question I asked was our promise: more than 80 per cent of Senator Patterson today about the cameos taxpayers will have to pay a top marginal tax highlighted the fact that the Treasurer is rate of 30 per cent or less. Just the other day counting benefits that will not even be deliv- Mr Latham said, ‘We need to make the Aus- ered for 12 months in these cameos. It is bla- tralian tax system fairer and put some incen- tantly misleading to tell families that they tive back into the Australian economy.’ In his will be getting this increase in their weekly speech to the national conference in January, incomes when it will not occur for another Mr Latham condemned the fact that nearly 12 months. That is completely misleading, one million Australian families faced effec- and I note that Senator Patterson was not tive marginal tax rates of at least 60 per cent. able to address that issue at all. She sledged He said: Mr Swan, but could she deal with the issue As a society, we need to reward the hard workers, that was raised before her? Not at all. not punish them. Another reason that families have been If that is what he still believes and if that is suffering under financial pressure is family what he still argues, he should pass this tax benefit debts. This is where the raw cyni- budget and get on with it. (Time expired) cism of this budget comes into play. Austra- Senator JACINTA COLLINS (Victoria) lian families remember from last election the (3.13 p.m.)—Perhaps Senator Mason should $1,000 waiver that they were going to be just go and take up a franchise, for all the getting to deal with the new family tax bene- understanding he shows of the positioning in fit system. But, by God, they also remember relation to this budget. The Labor Party has the next few years, when they got nothing— been quite clear on our position on this when they got the debts and they got noth- budget but it seems that, for reasons known ing. So let us consider this $600 payment as only to themselves, members of the govern- just a slightly different creature. This time ment are trying to ignore these matters. the government is being a little bit more so- phisticated about it. It is saying to Australian Let us look at the answers given to ques- families, ‘We won’t give you a $1,000 elec- tions today and how they really deal with the tion bribe this time; we’ll give you a one-off core issues in this budget. The budget claims payment of $600 and we’ll continue $600 to deal with families who are suffering under year after year into the future.’ Australian
CHAMBER 23060 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 families know that their average debt has delivered at all. It is the same with child care. been $900, so they are still $300 worse off. It is great that we have 40,000 places now, Senator Patterson today highlighted that but they are only outside school hours care they have done a little bit of tinkering to deal places. Nothing has been done about the with the issue of women who return to work shortages in child-care centres—nothing at after having a baby. But, again, the govern- all. (Time expired) ment show that they do not understand the Senator KNOWLES (Western Australia) realities of everyday family life. They are not (3.18 p.m.)—I find today’s debate absolutely the only issues. They are not the only prob- fascinating. The whining that has gone on in lems affecting families grappling with the the last five minutes is nothing short of family tax benefit system. I highlighted in breathtaking—apart from being at a pitch my question issues such as unexpected over- that would shoot planes out of the air. We time. Maybe that money should ultimately really do have to look at what the Labor go back to the Commonwealth, but where a Party are going to do with this budget. Are child unexpectedly decides to go and get a they going to vote against these measures? job and not continue with school those fami- Senator Jacinta Collins—You know the lies will still have to pay back their full debt. answer to that. You should just listen to the There is no exemption for them. news. It is going to be very interesting in esti- Senator KNOWLES—Isn’t that interest- mates when we come down to the qualifying ing? Senator Collins says: ‘You know the criteria for this special deal for mums who answer to that. You should just listen to the return to work. There are no objective crite- news.’ The fact of the matter is that that does ria that the government can use to say who not tally with what Senator Collins said in should be allowed to keep the payments that this chamber just before that. She has com- they have received to date in a financial year plained about it, she has grizzled about it, and who should not. How can you justify she has said that it is inadequate and all those that? Rather than fix the system, the gov- things, and yet now she says: ‘Don’t you ernment has just put in a little ad hoc meas- know what we’re going to do? We’re going ure because the public, rightly, has been con- to vote for it.’ Really and truly, what is the cerned about work force re-entry issues for Labor Party on about? Senator Collins just women after they have had children. But lots concluded her remarks by grizzling about the of other cases have not been addressed at all. maternity payment. The maternity payment The next issue is maternity payment prob- that we are talking about pays a lump sum of lems. Yes, it is great that we have finally got $3,000 for each newborn child. The Labor a maternity payment. But, again, look at his- Party never did that in 13 years in govern- tory. Labor introduced the maternity allow- ment. This payment will increase to $4,000 ance as a first stage. Our intention in the next from 1 July 2006 and increase again to government—back in 1996—was to add the $5,000 from 1 July 2008. This new payment second stage, and that would have covered will incorporate the existing maternity al- 14 weeks of minimum income support. This lowance and baby bonus. This payment is payment, many years on, is at a more gener- not means tested and is to be paid in full. ous level, and that is great. But it should Let us look at the alternative: the current have been in place since 1996, and it is this Labor Party policy. As opposed to the gov- government that never delivered it—never ernment’s policy of having this payment paid
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23061 to all, the Labor Party’s payment—by their which creates a new class of forgotten Aus- own admission—will not be paid to all. Not tralians. Four out of five Australian families only that—the Labor Party’s baby care pay- and singles will get no income tax relief ment will be reduced by 30c in every dollar from this budget. It is a budget which creates if the family income is above the FTB A cut- a class of forgotten Australians, a budget out threshold. No such policy exists from the which gives with one hand and takes with government, and yet the mob on the other the other. As Senator Conroy said, we know side are complaining about the maternity from the figures that $2.5 billion additional allowance. They know, sitting here today, tax was harvested by the government in this that their current policy is for a payment that financial year as a result of bracket creep— will decrease depending on the amount of $2.5 billion. Now they come to an election family income and that it will not be given to year and they want to hand back $1.9 billion 100 per cent of mothers. How can they pos- by way of tax cuts and they expect the elec- sibly come in here and complain about an torate to be grateful. allowance that will be given to all, will not In question time today I asked Senator be means tested, will be paid in full and will Minchin a question about child-care workers. increase over the forward estimates? It defies Child-care workers are those people in our any logic. But one gets used to not trying to community who do a fantastic job of looking look for logic in Labor Party arguments. after the children of Australian families and This budget will see Australian families who are paid an absolute pittance. The benefit to the tune of $19.2 billion in the in- minimum wage for a full-time child-care crease in family assistance over the next five worker is $24,300 a year. Just recently, child- years and yet the Labor Party complain about care workers received a minimum wage in- it. I think that is pretty darn low but, once crease as a result of a decision of the com- again, how much lower can you get from a mission. What did we see from this govern- mob that did not do anything for families in ment? Did we hear it saying, ‘It’s good that 13 years of government? This budget repre- these low-paid workers who are doing im- sents the largest package of assistance ever portant things for the children of Australia for families. It will help them with raising are paid a reasonable wage’? No, it did not. children. It will improve the rewards for The Howard government opposed the wage work and help families balance work and increase and was critical in the media of the family responsibilities. This package gives commission’s decision. In relation to those people a choice. The Labor Party do not child-care workers, apart from opposing their want to give anyone a choice; they simply wage increase what else have we seen from make a demand based on what they think is the Howard government in this budget? best for somebody else. Let us not contem- Child-care workers and others like them re- plate that they will complain about a mater- ceive not one cent in tax relief as a result of nity payment that is paid to all in full and the budget decisions announced last night. increased over the forward estimates when The tax relief that is proposed by this gov- theirs does the reverse. ernment in its budget is unashamedly, appar- Senator WONG (South Australia) (3.23 ently, directed at those earning over $52,000 p.m.)—I rise to speak on Senator Conroy’s a year. It was extraordinary to see Senator motion in relation to answers given today on Minchin trying to answer this question today the budget. As we all know, the budget that in question time. He was asked: ‘Why aren’t was handed down last night is a budget you doing anything for workers, such as
CHAMBER 23062 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 child-care workers? Why should someone on much point in announcing that you are going $24,300 a year get not one cent in tax relief to create new child-care places if you do not from this government while the Treasurer deal with the issue of providing reasonable and others in the high-income bracket get wages and conditions and a fair tax system $42 a week?’ Could he answer it? Frankly, for people on those sorts of incomes. We do he could not. His answer was pathetic and all not see that sort of fairness from this gov- he could do was bleat on about the introduc- ernment. We see it opposing minimum wage tion of the GST. Again, that is another one of increases in one week and in the next week over 100 new taxes that this government has ensuring that those people do not receive any introduced. tax relief and that the tax relief is almost ex- What this government is doing—and it clusively targeted at high-income earners— has been demonstrated in question time people in the top income tax bracket. (Time again and again—is forgetting many Austra- expired) lian families and taxpayers: all those who Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aus- earn under $52,000 a year, who will not see tralia) (3.28 p.m.)—I rise on behalf of the any tax relief under this budget. The gov- Australian Democrats to acknowledge the ernment, through bracket creep, has har- questions asked particularly by the ALP to- vested more and more income tax and now it day and to take note of the answers particu- is handing back only a proportion of what it larly in relation to this so-called family harvested and only to the high-income earn- friendly budget. The Australian Democrats ers. It is a budget which is inherently unfair. have already put on record our grave concern Senator Knowles was critical of many about the lack of assistance for low- and things, of Senator Collins and others, and middle-income earners during the period of critical of the Labor Party saying: ‘We don’t this government but I emphasise, in particu- know what you’ll do.’ I can say one thing. lar, the concern that we have about tax cuts Mark Latham has indicated that our position aimed at high-income earners instead of is that we would seek broader tax relief be- equal tax cuts and an increase in services for cause that is what Australians want. What we those in our society who suffer the most. have is a budget which creates a class of for- This budget looks very generous at face gotten Australians. Those who earn under value when you deal with not only the tax $52,000, four out of five Australian families cuts but, in particular, some of the so-called and singles get no income tax relief from this family friendly provisions. Most Australian budget and three out of five get nothing at families would readily acknowledge that all. As for the child-care workers and other they will be paying increased costs and have people who are low paid but in important been paying an increased amount in the form jobs, they receive nothing by way of tax re- of user pays over the period of this govern- lief from this government. ment for services such as health and educa- The LHMU, the union which covers tion and through the social security system, child-care workers and has been running a particularly in light of means testing ar- great campaign to try to improve the wages rangements and the government’s penalties and conditions of those workers, said in a in relation to overpayments when it comes to recent survey that 70 per cent of workers social security. indicated that they could not afford to work It comes as no surprise that, having tabled in child care in the long term. There is not the first ever piece of paid maternity leave
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23063 legislation in this place, I have an interest in women should be paid at least the minimum the maternity payment that this government wage. The minimum wage over 14 weeks put forward last night. While the Democrats would amount to around $6,400, and this are on record as acknowledging that this is a payment is $3,000—less than half of that welcome and long overdue measure, it is still payment. That is not good enough. Any a measure that slaps working women. It hits workers out there—male or female—with hard at working families, particularly those families, who are bringing up kids or who where a woman is in the workplace. have just had children will understand that, In the last few hours in the debates in this while $3,000 is good and no-one sniffs at it, chamber and on television last night, I have it is not enough. It is not enough to end the heard continual references to the ‘average systematic discrimination that takes place worker’. One reference I heard was to an against women in the work force who decide average worker ‘who has a wife and chil- to have a child. dren’. We are talking in this debate as if Women often put off having a child. In women are not the average—as if they are particular, families put off having a second not part of the community. I say that as a child because of the increased costs of living warning to senators opposite, particularly in our society. Some women decide not to government members and ministers, who tell their workplaces that they are pregnant seem to forget, when they talk about family because of the possibility of discrimination friendliness and inclusiveness, that women and indeed termination of employment. are 52 per cent of the population. Women worry that they will not get their Another figure worth remembering for jobs back after having a child. Of more con- this government is that two-thirds of Austra- cern from a health and social perspective are lian working women did not have access to the women who go back to work too quickly. any payment upon the birth of a child if they We heard during a Senate inquiry the story of were in the work force. I acknowledge that one woman who, two weeks after a caesar- the government has changed that. Last night ean, returned to the office. the government talked about a $3,000 pay- You have to remember that women are of- ment applying to all women upon the birth of ten the heads of sole parent families, which a child. I commend the so-called universality have not been adequately assisted by the of that payment—it was certainly a problem budget package that came down last night. I had with the Labor Party’s so-called baby Australians are conscious of the need for care payment. But $3,000 is still not good increased services as well as the need of enough. I know that working women and some families for tax cuts, but these tax cuts women around Australia who have children are not equitable, they are not fair and they are desperate for some kind of payment, but do not deserve to be passed in this form. As $3,000 is a real token effort. for the maternity payment, the Democrats I put forward a private member’s bill on will acknowledge that it is a start—but talk this matter years ago, as senators would about the longest gestation period in history know. I costed my model based on paying 14 for a policy! (Time expired) weeks maternity leave. That is the ILO rec- Question agreed to. ommended period that women should have PETITIONS off work when they have a child, for biologi- The Clerk—A petition has been lodged cal and other imperatives. For 14 weeks for presentation as follows:
CHAMBER 23064 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Education: Educational Textbook Subsidy Senator Stott Despoja to move on the Scheme next day of sitting: To the Honourable the President and Members of That the Senate— the Senate in Parliament assembled: (a) notes: The Petition of the undersigned draws to the at- (i) that the week of 14 May to 23 May tention of the Senate, concerns that the expiration 2004 is Landmine Action Week in of the Educational Textbook Subsidy Scheme on Australia, June 30 will lead to an eight percent increase in (ii) the objective of Landmine Action Week the price of textbooks, which will further burden students and make education less accessible. is to promote Australia’s efforts to eliminate landmines, assist landmine Your petitioners believe: survivors and encourage support for the (a) a tax on books is a tax on knowledge; Convention on the Prohibition of the (b) textbooks as an essential component of Use, Stockpiling, Production and education—should remain GST free; Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and their Destruction (Mine Ban Treaty), (c) an increase in the price of textbooks will with a special emphasis on the Asia- price many students out of education, Pacific region, and particularly those students from disadvantaged backgrounds; and, (iii) only half the countries in the Asia- Pacific region have banned landmines, (d) the Educational Textbook Subsidy while about 12 countries continue to Scheme should be extended past June produce and use them, making the 30. Asia-Pacific region the most prolific Your petitioners therefore request the Senate act producer and user of landmines of any to extend the Educational Textbook Subsidy region in the world; Scheme indefinitely. (b) commends the Australian Government for by Senator Stott Despoja (from 2,336 its commitment of $100 million for Mine citizens) Action over the decade ending 2005 and Petition received. acknowledges the extent of mine-clearing and victim assistance achieved as a result NOTICES of providing those funds; Presentation (c) urges the Australian Government to renew Senator Cook to move on the next day of its Mine Action funding pledge for sitting: another decade; and That the report of the Select Committee on the (d) calls again on the Australian Government Free Trade Agreement between Australia and the to increase efforts to encourage other United States of America be presented on Asia-Pacific nations to sign and ratify the 12 August 2004. Mine Ban Treaty, through bilateral discussions and multilateral forums, Senator Ian Campbell to move on the including the Association of South East next day of sitting: Asian Nations. That, for the purposes of section 49 of the Acts Senator Allison to move on the next day Interpretation Act 1901, the Senate rescinds its of sitting: resolution of 24 March 2004 disallowing certain items of the Corporations Amendment Regu- That the following matters be referred to the lations 2003 (No. 8), as contained in Statutory Community Affairs Legislation Committee for Rules 2003 No. 282 and made under the inquiry and report by 4 August 2004: Corporations Act 2001.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23065
(a) the provisions of the Commonwealth COMMITTEES Electoral Amendment (Preventing Selection of Bills Committee Smoking Related Deaths) Bill 2004; Report (b) the exposure draft of the Tobacco Advertising Prohibition (Film, Internet Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.34 and misleading Promotion) Amendment p.m.)—I present the seventh report of 2004 Bill 2004; and of the Selection of Bills Committee. (c) the adequacy of the response to date of the Ordered that the report be adopted. Australian Competition and Consumer Senator FERRIS—I seek leave to have Commission (ACCC) to the orders of the the report incorporated in Hansard. Senate of 24 September 2001, 27 June 2002 and 12 November 2002, which Leave granted. require the ACCC to report to the Senate The report read as follows— on various issues concerning tobacco. SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE Senator Carr to move on the next day of REPORT NO. 7 OF 2004 sitting: 1. The committee met on Tuesday, 11 May That the Senate— 2004. (a) notes with concern the adverse effects of 2. The committee resolved to recommend— the Government’s botched implementation That— of the current Cooperative Research (a) the provisions of the Parliamentary Centre (CRC) selection round; Superannuation Bill 2004 and the Parliamentary Superannuation and Other (b) calls on the Government to restore public Entitlements Legislation Amendment interest research as a key selection criteria Bill 2004 be referred immediately to the for future CRCs; and Finance and Public Administration (c) calls on the Minister for Science (Mr Legislation Committee for inquiry and McGauran) to take responsibility for the report on 15 June 2004 (see appendix 1 denial of funding to nationally-significant for statement of reasons for referral); CRCs such as the reef, rainforest and and photonics CRCs, and to use his powers (b) the following bills not be referred to under the current CRC guidelines to hear committees: appeals from such CRCs against their • Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Ac- exclusion from the current selection cess to Electoral Roll and Other Measures) round. Bill 2004 Senator Brown to move on the next day • Electoral and Referendum Amendment (En- of sitting: rolment Integrity and Other Measures) Bill That the provisions of the Electoral and 2004 Referendum Amendment (Access to Electoral • Health Legislation Amendment (Podiatric Roll and Other Measures) Bill 2004 be referred to Surgery and Other Matters) Bill 2004 the Legal and Constitutional References • Industrial Chemicals (Notification and As- Committee for inquiry and report by 15 June sessment) Amendment (Low Regulatory 2004. Concern Chemicals) Bill 2004
CHAMBER 23066 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
• Occupational Health and Safety (Common- Reasons for referral/principal issues for wealth Employment) Amendment (Promot- consideration ing Safer Workplaces) Bill 2004 To examine the provisions of the bill relating • Veterans’ Entitlements (Clarke Review) Bill to the superannuation entitlements of new 2004. Members of Parliament and ability to attract The committee recommends accordingly. quality MPs. 3. The committee deferred consideration of the To consider the impact of the legislation on following bills to the next meeting: existing Parliamentarians and the implications of having three different Bills deferred from meeting of 10 February 2004 superannuation arrangements for MPs • Corporate Law Economic Reform Program To compare this legislation with similar (Audit Reform and Corporate Disclosure) changes being made to the Commonwealth Bill 2003 Public Service and State and Territory • Corporations (Fees) Amendment Bill (No. 2) Parliaments. 2003 To consider the Labor proposal to cap the • Racial and Religious Hatred Bill 2003 additional retiring allowance for Ministers [No. 2]. and other office holders, Bill deferred from meeting of 23 March 2004 Possible submissions or evidence from: • Resale Royalty Bill 2004. Corporate Superannuation Association Bills deferred from meeting of 30 March 2004 Investment and Financial Services • Excise and Other Legislation Amendment Association (Compliance Measures) Bill 2004 Association of Superannuation Funds • Flags Amendment (Eureka Flag) Bill 2004. Australia Bills deferred from meeting of 11 May 2004 Commonwealth Public Service Union • Child Support Legislation Amendment Bill ACOSS 2004 Department of Finance and ,Administration • Customs Tariff Amendment (Fuels) Bill 2004 State Parliaments • Excise Tariff Amendment (Fuels) Bill 2004 Committee to which bill is referred: • Family Law Amendment Bill 2004 Finance and Public Administration • New International Tax Arrangements (Par- Legislation Committee ticipation Exemption and Other Measures) Possible hearing date: 31 May 2004 Bill 2004 Possible reporting date(s): 15 June 2004 • Tax Laws Amendment (2004 Measures No. 2) Bill 2004. Senator Lyn Allison (Jeannie Ferris) Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member Chair NOTICES 12 May 2004 Postponement Appendix 1 Items of business were postponed as fol- Proposal to refer a bill to a committee lows: Name of bill(s): Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 1 Parliamentary Superannuation Bill 2004 standing in the name of Senator Forshaw for today, relating to the reference of matters to Parliamentary Superannuation and Other the Community Affairs References Entitlements Legislation Amendment Bill Committee, postponed till 16 June 2004. 2004
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23067
Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 2 Question agreed to. standing in the name of Senator Allison for COMMITTEES today, relating to the reference of a matter to the Employment, Workplace Relations and Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Education References Committee, postponed Legislation Committee till 13 May 2004. Meeting Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 3 Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 standing in the name of Senator Brown for p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the today, relating to the reference of a matter to Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, postponed till Legislation Committee, Senator Heffernan, I 13 May 2004. move: General business notice of motion no. 466 That the Rural and Regional Affairs and standing in the name of Senator Lees for Transport Legislation Committee be authorised to today, proposing the introduction of the hold a public meeting during the sitting of the Protection of Biodiversity on Private Land Senate on Wednesday, 12 May 2004, from 4 pm, Bill 2003, postponed till 17 June 2004. to take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into the provisions of the Civil Aviation Legislation General business notice of motion no. 467 Amendment (Mutual Recognition with New standing in the name of Senator Lees for Zealand and Other Matters) Bill 2003. 13 May 2004, proposing the introduction of the Encouraging Communities Bill 2003, Question agreed to. postponed till 17 June 2004. Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport General business notice of motion no. 850 Legislation Committee standing in the name of Senator Allison for Meeting today, proposing the establishment of a select committee on tobacco, postponed till 13 May Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 2004. p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the HIGHER EDUCATION Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport CONTRIBUTION SCHEME Legislation Committee, Senator Heffernan, I move: Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aus- tralia) (3.35 p.m.)—I move: That the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee be authorised to That the Senate— hold a public meeting during the sitting of the (a) notes that on 12 May 2004 there will be Senate on Thursday, 13 May 2004, from 4 pm to national action by university students, 6 pm, to take evidence for the committee’s who will be protesting against the inquiry into the administration of Biosecurity Government’s ‘Backing Australia’s future: Australia concerning the revised draft import risk Our universities’ policy and, specifically, analysis for bananas. against higher education contribution Question agreed to. scheme (HECS) increases; Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport (b) supports students in their non-violent Legislation Committee attempts to prevent the remaining universities from increasing HECS; and Extension of Time (c) condemns the Government for under- Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 funding universities for the past 7 years to p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the such an extent that universities are now Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport turning to students to provide a short-term increase in funding.
CHAMBER 23068 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Legislation Committee, Senator Heffernan, I Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport move: References Committee, Senator Ridgeway, I That the time for the presentation of the report move: of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport That the time for the presentation of reports of Legislation Committee on the administration of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport AusSAR in relation to the search for the Margaret References Committee be extended as follows: J be extended to 5 August 2004. (a) forestry plantations—to 24 June 2004; and Question agreed to. (b) rural water resource usage—to 12 August Legal and Constitutional Legislation 2004. Committee Question agreed to. Meeting Privileges Committee Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 Reference p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 Legal and Constitutional Legislation Com- p.m.)—At the request of Senators Knowles mittee, Senator Payne, I move: and Humphries, I move: That the Legal and Constitutional Legislation That the following matter be referred to the Committee be authorised to hold a public meeting Committee of Privileges: during the sitting of the Senate on Wednesday, 12 May 2004, from 4.30 pm, to take evidence for Whether there was an unauthorised the committee’s inquiry into the provisions of the disclosure of the draft report of the Migration Amendment (Judicial Review) Bill Community Affairs References Committee in 2004. relation to poverty and financial hardship and whether any contempt was committed in that Question agreed to. regard. Finance and Public Administration Legis- Question agreed to. lation Committee EUREKA STOCKADE: 150TH Meeting ANNIVERSARY Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 Senator MARSHALL (Victoria) (3.37 p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the p.m.)—I move: Finance and Public Administration Legisla- tion Committee, Senator Mason, I move: That the Senate— (a) notes that 2004 is the 150th anniversary of That the Finance and Public Administration the Eureka rebellion, which took place in Legislation Committee be authorised to hold a Ballarat, Victoria, on 3 December 1854; public meeting during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 13 May 2004, from 3.30 pm to 6 pm, to (b) recognises the importance of commemor- take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into the ating this important occasion; and Occupational Health and Safety (Commonwealth (c) accordingly invites and authorises the Employment) Amendment (Employee Involve- President to make arrangements for the ment and Compliance) Bill 2002. Eureka flag to be flown from two of the Question agreed to. four flag masts at the Senate entrance for the period Monday, 29 November to and Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport including Friday, 3 December 2004. References Committee Question agreed to. Extension of Time Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.36 p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23069
INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE FOR BUDGET RENEWABLE ENERGIES Consideration by Legislation Committees Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.38 Additional Information p.m.)—I move: Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.39 That the Senate— p.m.)—On behalf of the Chair of the Finance (a) congratulates the German Government on and Public Administration Legislation Com- its initiative proposing to host the mittee, Senator Mason, I present additional International Conference for Renewable information received by the committee relating Energies in Bonn from 1 June to 4 June to supplementary hearings on the budget esti- 2004, as a follow-up to the Johannesburg mates for 2003-04. Earth Summit; and (b) calls on the Australian Government to be Consideration by Legislation Committees represented at the conference by a Additional Information delegation headed by a minister. Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.40 Question agreed to. p.m.)—On behalf of the Chair of the Legal INTERNATIONAL RENEWABLE and Constitutional Legislation Committee, ENERGY AGENCY Senator Payne, I present additional informa- tion received by the committee relating to Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.38 hearings on the additional estimates for p.m.)—I move: 2003-04. That the Senate— COMMITTEES (a) notes the German Government initiative to establish an International Renewable Public Accounts and Audit Committee Energy Agency (IRENA) as an Statement international governmental organisation in Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.40 order to support and advance the active p.m.)—On behalf of Senator Watson and the utilisation of renewable energies on a global scale; and Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Au- dit, I table a statement on the draft budget (b) calls on the Australian Government to support IRENA strongly and to establish a estimates for the Australian National Audit complementary organisation in Australia. Office for 2004-05 and seek leave to incor- porate the statement in Hansard. Question negatived. Leave granted. COMMITTEES The statement read as follows— Scrutiny of Bills Mr President, in accordance with provisions of Report the Public Accounts and Audit Committee Act Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (3.39 1951 the Committee is required to make recom- p.m.)—On behalf of Senator Crossin, I pre- mendations to both Houses of Parliament and to sent the sixth report of 2004 of the Senate the Prime Minister on the draft budget estimates Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of of the Australian National Audit Office. Bills. I also lay on the table the Scrutiny of The Committee has considered the draft budget Bills Alert Digest No. 6 of 2004, dated estimates for 2004-2005 submitted by the Audi- 12 May 2004. tor-General. I am pleased to advise Parliament that the JCPAA is now satisfied that the estimates Ordered that the report be printed. are sufficient to enable the Auditor-General to
CHAMBER 23070 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 properly exercise his functions and powers under its audit program for 2005-06. Thus, the Commit- the Auditor-General Act 1997. tee considers that the ANAO’s immediate budget- At a meeting in March this year, the ANAO had ary concerns are resolved—for the 2004-2005 advised the Committee that its budget allocation year. of $56.316 million would enable the ANAO to The ANAO has foreshadowed to the Committee meet its statutory responsibilities and undertake a increasing cost pressures in the longer term that it comprehensive audit program for 2004-05 at faces in both the financial statement and perform- broadly existing levels. ance audit areas. However, the Committee was also advised that The continuing attention to sound corporate gov- the ANAO would need an extra $2.71 million to ernance in both the public and private sectors, meet two additional measures that could not be including the increasing recognition of the impor- accommodated within its base funding. tance of effective financial management and the The first additional measure was to meet addi- implications of CLERP9 legislation, are all con- tional costs to the ANAO arising from bringing tributing to an environment which may signifi- forward the deadlines for completing the audit of cantly increase the cost of the ANAO’s financial agency financial statements. The ANAO would statement audit program. have continued to meet its statutory financial The proposed adoption of international account- auditing obligations, but this would have been at ing standards and the harmonisation of Govern- the expense of other activities—potentially in- ment Financial Statements and Generally Ac- cluding the breadth and depth of its performance cepted Accounting Principles will also place addi- auditing. tional burdens on the financial statement audit The second additional measure was to enable the program. ANAO to respond to the Senate Resolution re- Furthermore, the increasing complexity of the quest of May 2003 that the ANAO conduct an public sector environment continues to increase annual report on progress of major defence pro- the level of resources required to meet the jects. This would be a major exercise, again out- ANAO’s performance audit responsibilities. In side the ANAO’s base resource capacity. particular, the growing importance of information The Auditor-General has been able to advise the technology for communication, record keeping Committee in the last two weeks that it will re- and service delivery means that the ANAO needs, ceive additional funding to cover the conse- for example, an ever increasing IT audit capacity. quences of compressing the financial statement These additional cost pressures on financial auditing timeframe. This will amount to $2.035 statement and performance audits are expected to million in 2004-2005 and $1.626 million in out- continue for the foreseeable future. Consequently years. The Committee is persuaded that this will the cost of meeting the Audit Office’s statutory adequately compensate for the additional demand obligations is expected to increase in 2005-06 and on audit resources. the three forward years. The Auditor-General also advised the Committee Nevertheless, prudent financial management has that the ANAO would not receive additional resulted in the Audit Office’s overall financial funds in 2004-2005 to allow it to undertake the position remaining adequate at this stage. The audit work requested by the Senate in relation to Audit Office also has sufficient cash reserves to the major defence projects. The question of meet ongoing liabilities, including employee enti- whether to provide funding to allow the audits tlements, and to fund future capital acquisitions. will be deferred by the Government until the As I indicated at the beginning of my statement, 2005-2006 Budget to give the new Defence Mate- the Committee is now reassured that the Auditor- riel Organisation time to establish its procedures. General has a sufficient budget allocation to allow In light of the Government’s decision, the Com- him meet his statutory responsibilities for 2004- mittee has been advised that the ANAO proposes 2005. to defer consideration of the Senate’s request until
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23071
The Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Au- or impropriety on the part of the former min- dit in line with its statutory responsibilities as the ister. Audit Committee of the Parliament will also con- tinue to monitor closely the demands placed on Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (3.43 the Auditor-General’s resources by way of ad hoc p.m.)—by leave—I move: audit requests. This will ensure that the Audit That the Senate take note of the statement. Office’s wider scheduled program of performance Given the scheduling of a number of matters audits is not compromised. today, I do not intend to take up a significant NATIONAL DRUG RESEARCH amount of the Senate’s time. I may, however, STRATEGY seek leave to reserve comments in relation to Return to Order this for another time. It is important to un- The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—On behalf derstand that Senator Vanstone in her reply is of the President, I present a response from denying the order for the production of docu- the Minister for Health and Ageing, Mr Ab- ments. The minister has not been able to in- bott, to a resolution of the Senate of 8 Octo- dicate why order No. 47 on the Notice Paper ber 2003 concerning a draft national drug for the production of documents relating to research strategy. the Select Committee into Ministerial Dis- cretion has not been complied with. Three IMMIGRATION: VISA APPROVALS spurious reasons have been raised: workload, Return to Order issues of privacy and it seems that the matter Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western was also addressed by her in a letter to the Australia—Minister for Local Government, committee. They are not arguments that de- Territories and Roads) (3.41 p.m.)—by serve to be ventilated here without proper leave—On behalf of Senator Vanstone, I re- expansion and without a detailed reply. Sena- fer to an order which arises from a motion tor Vanstone has not even come to the cham- which was moved by Senator Ludwig as ber herself to argue the case but has provided agreed by the Senate on 1 April this year. It a short statement which does not go to the relates to documents relating to the exercise detail but simply provides a broad sweep. of ministerial discretion under sections 351 The minister has not answered why, in and 417 of the Migration Act 1958. I wish to truth, order 47 should not be complied with. inform the Senate that the committee was Can the minister answer whether the order advised during its inquiry that the minister for the production of these documents will be was not going to provide some of the infor- complied with at some later stage? It is vital mation now being sought again in the Senate to understand that these matters are germane motion. Firstly, the committee’s request had and they were germane to the work of the very significant resourcing and workload select committee. Without those documents implications for the department. Secondly, the select committee could not investigate there were also fundamental issues of pri- fully the claims that were being made—and vacy, given that the files and other personal it said that in the report. The order agreed to information requested by the committee re- on 1 April this year clearly showed that vital lated to individuals who were not themselves information had been withheld from the se- the subject of the inquiry. The motion casts lect committee. The committee sought to an even broader net and would have greater investigate claims of impropriety by the for- resource and privacy impacts. I note that the mer minister for immigration, the Hon. committee found no evidence of wrongdoing Philip Ruddock, which were raised during
CHAMBER 23072 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 the cash for visas scandal. What we have (1) Documents may be ordered to be laid on the now is the inability of the minister to meet table, and the Clerk shall communicate to the the same request for documents by the Sen- Leader of the Government in the Senate all ate that the select committee made to the orders for documents made by the Senate. minister. (2) When returned the documents shall be laid on the table by the Clerk. This is a mean and tricky government that refuses to be held accountable. It is not the This time, as for 52 other times, this Senate first time, of course, that this government has has not had the benefit of the government withheld information but it should be the providing those documents. It continues to last. This order for the production of docu- flout the order that has been provided by the ments highlights the government’s contempt Senate to produce documents to ensure that for the committee process. In effect, by re- this government is open and accountable. fusing to produce the documents the gov- This government continues to remain behind ernment is saying that immigration processes a smokescreen, behind words such as ‘work- and accountability in those processes are not load implications’ and ‘privacy concerns’. It the business of this Senate even when the is a poor justification—in fact I do not think Senate appoints a select committee to inves- it is even a justification. It is an excuse for tigate and report on claims of impropriety. ensuring that this government cannot be held open and accountable. The work of Senate The government is wrong about that— committees cannot be completed if this gov- dead wrong. In fact, since 1996 the Senate ernment continues to ignore reasonable re- has initiated 179 orders for the production of quests for relevant documents, as were made documents. The government has consistently in this instance. This government should be failed to comply with the order on many of held accountable, and it will be held ac- those. The government has not been able to countable. come to the Senate and say why they have failed to comply with those orders. On 52 Question agreed to. occasions the orders for the production of NEW INTERNATIONAL TAX documents have not been complied with by ARRANGEMENTS BILL 2003 this government. That is, on 52 occasions the Report of Economics Legislation Commit- government has ignored section 50 of the tee Constitution and not provided information to Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.49 the Senate which the Senate is empowered to p.m.)—On behalf of the Chair of the Eco- receive and to make orders about. nomics Legislation Committee, Senator This highlights, in my view, the position Brandis, I present the report of the commit- this government has adopted throughout this tee on the New International Tax Arrange- debate. The government spends much more ments Bill 2003, together with the Hansard time on quick fixes than on proper manage- record of proceedings and documents pre- ment of its system. It does not and cannot sented to the committee. provide accountability for its departments or Ordered that the report be printed. for its processes to ensure that it is held ac- countable for all of those issues. Standing order 164—I remind Senator Campbell and the Senate—states:
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23073
TAX LAWS AMENDMENT (2004 truth it represents a simplistic and ineffectual MEASURES No. 1) BILL 2004 way of dealing with a very complex policy Report of Economics Legislation issue. The government claim that the bill Committee facilitates measures to address the problem of imbalance in the number of male and fe- Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.50 male school teachers and the particular effect p.m.)—On behalf of the Chair of the Eco- of that imbalance on the educational out- nomics Legislation Committee, Senator come for male students. It adds a new ex- Brandis, I present the report of the commit- emption to the Sex Discrimination Act, or tee on the Tax Laws Amendment (2004 the SDA, which will allow the offering of Measures No. 1) Bill 2004, together with the student scholarships disproportionately to Hansard record of proceedings and docu- one sex over the other, with the purpose be- ments presented to the committee. ing to, as they say, ‘redress gender imbalance Ordered that the report be printed. in teaching’. TREASURY LEGISLATION Labor’s reasons for opposing this bill AMENDMENT (PROFESSIONAL when so many other better initiatives could STANDARDS) BILL 2003 have been taken have been set out by my Report of Economics Legislation Commit- colleague the shadow Attorney-General in tee the House. However, as senators and the Senator FERRIS (South Australia) (3.50 Deputy President should know, the bill was p.m.)—On behalf of the Chair of the Eco- also referred to a Senate committee, of which nomics Legislation Committee, Senator I am a member, after it was introduced into Brandis, I present the report of the commit- parliament, and the report from the commit- tee on the provisions of the Treasury Legisla- tee of inquiry was tabled only yesterday. La- tion Amendment (Professional Standards) bor and the minor parties provided dissenting Bill 2003, together with the Hansard record reports to the government members’ majority of proceedings and documents presented to report and, in Labor’s dissenting report, we the committee. outlined the reasons why we would not be supporting this bill here today. Essentially Ordered that the report be printed. the reasons are that insufficient evidence was SEX DISCRIMINATION AMENDMENT provided to the committee to show that there (TEACHING PROFESSION) BILL 2004 is a structural discrimination against males Second Reading entering or remaining in the teaching profes- Debate resumed from 29 March, on mo- sion. Similarly, there is no evidence which tion by Senator Abetz: suggests that increasing the number of male That this bill be now read a second time. teachers will enhance educational outcomes for boys, nor that the perceived lack of role (Quorum formed) models for boys in schools is in any way Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (3.54 linked to their educational outcomes. p.m.)—I rise to speak on the Sex Discrimina- Evidence brought before the committee tion Amendment (Teaching Profession) Bill from the 17 submissions received and the 2004. Let me say clearly that Labor oppose seven organisations that appeared to give this bill, which seeks to make changes to the evidence overwhelmingly suggested that a Sex Discrimination Act. We oppose the gov- lack of males in teaching is caused by factors ernment’s approach to this bill because in such as the status—or the perceived lack of
CHAMBER 23074 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 it—of the profession, and salary and career continues to push its own wheelbarrow, argu- opportunities. Further, the evidence strongly ing that this change is needed to address a suggested that it is the quality of teaching gender imbalance. In fact, the government and learning provisions and not teacher gen- has many other options and levers that could der that has the most profound impact on be used to deliver this outcome without educational outcomes for both boys and needing to amend the act to do so. This is an girls. The gender disparity between males ill-conceived and intellectually flawed attack and females, particularly in preschool and on the Sex Discrimination Act. primary school teaching, is a multifaceted The government announced this package issue that requires long-term strategic plan- before the Senate committee had finished its ning to be able to accomplish the end point. inquiry into the new legislation, so clearly These are all issues that Labor raised ear- the education minister and the rest of the lier in the debate on the bill, and much of the government were not even remotely inter- information has been previously provided in ested in assessing the evidence presented to the House of Representatives committee in- them before going ahead with further com- quiry report into the education of boys, Boys: mitments. This demonstrates that this bill is getting it right, tabled in 2003. The report also about tricky politics and not about pro- recommended a number of measures for ad- viding decent policy outcomes or decent so- dressing the low educational outcome of lutions for the serious issues of providing boys, but there was no recommendation to better educational and social outcomes for change the Sex Discrimination Act and no boys in primary schools. suggestion that doing so would achieve the Other evidence presented to the recent in- purpose claimed by the government in this quiry that the government chose to ignore bill. However, the government referred to the was from its own Department of Education, House of Representatives committee report Science and Training. This submission, and as part of the reason for introducing the bill further evidence provided in person to the we have before us now. Anyone following committee, showed that, while the number of this issue in detail would see the complete males completing primary school teacher lack of logic and rationale in the govern- education courses had decreased, the number ment’s approach. However, they seem to be and percentage of males enrolling in these relying on the fact that most people are in courses has in fact increased. Therefore, the fact not following the detail of this debate. government argument that financial incen- They are simply trying to muddy the public tives in the form of scholarships are needed debate by asking people to believe them at the front end to encourage more men into when they say that they are concerned about starting these courses is based on nothing getting better outcomes for boys in schools more than bubbles of thought from the edu- and that changing the Sex Discrimination cation minister. Act is the most effective way of doing that. There is also evidence that, while there Since the bill was originally introduced has been a decline in male primary teachers into parliament, the circumstance that pro- in government funded schools, the number voked the amendment—that is, the Catholic and percentage of male primary teachers in Education Office proposal in New South the non-government sector has increased Wales—has sensibly been resolved. But, in- slightly. This move out of the government stead of gracefully withdrawing this particu- sector is compounded by the fact that there is lar amendment to the bill, the government
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23075 a major exodus of male primary school with this particular bill. In August 2002 the teachers from the classroom to senior posi- Catholic Education Office in Sydney applied tions in the administration of schools, par- for an exemption under section 44 of the Sex ticularly amongst the ranks of school princi- Discrimination Act in order to offer 12 pals. Submission after submission went on to teacher training scholarships to male HSC dispute the government’s proposition that students. The application for the exemption just getting more male teachers into primary was considered by the Human Rights and schools will have some magic impact on the Equal Opportunity Commission and on educational outcomes for boys. As I said ear- 22 February 2003 the commission declined lier, there was no evidence provided to show to grant the exemption. This decision was that this is the case. In fact, several submis- made only four months after the initial appli- sions argued that evidence based research cation. The CEO was appealing this decision both here and overseas shows that the quality to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Due of teachers is far more important than the to a whole range of procedural and internal gender of the teacher. matters, the hearing date was set for April This confirms evidence put before the 2003, as I understand it. The government Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Com- pre-empted this appeals process by introduc- mission when it considered the initial appli- ing an amendment to the SDA. The CEO cation by the Catholic Education Office and publicly stated that they did not seek an found no persuasive evidence for allowing a amendment to the SDA. change to the Sex Discrimination Act in or- The Attorney-General was questioned der to provide 12 male scholarships. That is about the reasons for the change. His answer what this amendment is all about: 12 male was that he had been asked to make the scholarships. The evidence has not changed; changes by others. But who are these ‘oth- the facts have not changed. Yet the govern- ers’? It has since been established, as far as ment refuses to change its approach to the our inquiries have led us, that the only per- matter, insisting there is some kind of causal son asking him to make these changes was link. his cohort the Minister for Education, Sci- Labor has been calling on the government ence and Training. I am happy for the How- to withdraw the bill from the day the idea ard government to tell us otherwise. There was first floated as a bubble from the educa- were no community groups, no educational tion minister. Rather than this opposition institutions and no research bodies urging the being based on any ideological problem with Attorney-General to make the changes in the changing the Sex Discrimination Act, as the interests of boys’ education. It was simply an government has consistently tried to claim, it idea that the minister for education dreamt is because the bill is simply bad policy and up as a way to divert attention from his lack has not little but no merit other than to try to of action and to try to attack those who provide a diversion from the fact that the would oppose the measure. All the evidence government has completely failed to address now points to the fact that the government the issue of boys’ education since it came to and the minister for education seriously mis- office eight years ago. judged the issue and have seriously com- promised the integrity of their claims to be The background to the introduction of this doing this in the public interest. bill is as follows, which may give us a little understanding of how we came to be here The government also tried to claim that somehow the Human Rights and Equal Op-
CHAMBER 23076 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 portunity Commission was at fault for the ment’s pre-emption of the decision by the length of time taken between the original AAT and HREOC was completely unneces- application and the final solution of this mat- sary and that the procedure set up within ter. However, it is clear from the way that the HREOC to deal with such matters is ade- Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Com- quate. mission dealt with the matter that it was dealt I will now deal with the arguments against with properly and efficiently. The govern- supporting the bill. As well as being abso- ment should withdraw any inference that lutely clear that we do not support this bill, there was a pre-emptive strike on the SDA for all the reasons I outlined earlier, Labor because of the way the matter was handled want to make it crystal clear that we do sup- by HREOC. There was not. In its original port the objective of getting more men into decision HREOC recommended that the teaching. Labor will also support sensible CEO undertake further investigation of those and evidence based measures to get more issues and possible solutions before returning men into teaching, but this particular mecha- with a new application for consideration. The nism chosen by the government will not decision also refers to other options such as work. Making changes to the Sex Discrimi- offering an equal number of scholarships to nation Act is not the most effective mecha- men and women as another way of achieving nism for doing this, as it does not deal with the CEO’s aims. the underlying issue of why men are choos- Since the introduction of the bill on ing not to enter the teaching profession. Re- 10 March I understand that new negotiations cruitment, pay scales and career opportuni- have been held between HREOC and the ties for teachers ought to be the issues under CEO resulting in their original application the spotlight here, not sex discrimination being withdrawn, their appeal to the AAT legislation. Indeed, we know there is no bar- being withdrawn, a new application being rier preventing men from enrolling in teach- submitted and an exemption being success- ing courses or from progressing within the fully obtained for a five-year period. The full teaching profession. If anything, statistics decision is available on the HREOC web site indicate that whilst fewer males are in pri- for those who are following the debate. The mary schools a disproportionately large new application was for—surprise, sur- number of men are moving into senior posi- prise—24 additional merit based scholar- tions within schools, including that of school ships: 12 for males and 12 for females. This principal. was the position that Labor had flagged as an The government’s proposal has no devel- alternative to what was being sought. This opmental impact on the education system, proposal still required the granting of an ex- invests nothing in the future of boys’ educa- emption by HREOC, which it granted on tion and does not make any significant at- 19 March this year. The commission flagged tempt to address the real underlying issues. in its decision that the proposed scholarship Labor on the other hand has put forward a scheme will not by itself address the issue number of propositions. In contrast to the related to the gender imbalance in the pri- government, Labor has a five-point plan to mary teacher profession and has encouraged address the real problem of getting men back the CEO to investigate and implement fur- into the teaching profession, particularly at ther non-discriminatory strategies in order to the primary level. It includes establishing a address those issues. This series of events national campaign to attract quality entrants demonstrates two things: that the govern- to teaching, targeting men with relevant
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23077 skills and backgrounds; encouraging more In short, all of the evidence provided to male mentors, including fathers, to work the Senate committee and all the evidence with schools and parents by reading to stu- provided to the government shows that this dents and using technology, vocational edu- bill is not only unnecessary but also flawed. cation, music and drama and sporting activi- There is no evidence that it will meet the ties; having incentives for quality teaching, stated objectives of the government. There is including for teachers who have the skills no evidence that providing scholarships will needed to improve the learning outcomes for lift the rate of males studying primary school boys; targeting improvements in teaching courses. There is no evidence that it will ad- skills for boys in the Commonwealth profes- dress the gender imbalance among classroom sional development program and in the de- teachers in schools. There is no evidence for velopment of national teaching standards; why the government should have ignored the and, lastly, having student discipline and recommendation of the earlier Boys: getting welfare programs, much of which will be it right report that recommended against the targeted at boys. provision of scholarships to address this is- Labor have also recently announced fur- sue. The minister for education, I suggest, ther details of our proposed campaign to tar- has been off on a folly—wasting the time of get boys in years 10, 11 and 12 and in uni- the department in drafting this bill and of the versity to promote the benefits of becoming parliament in dealing with this bill when it teachers. Our new Buddy Up program, could have been dealing with other more which is a mentoring plan to give primary pressing legislation. In light of all of this, we aged boys contact with men who can act as will not consider supporting the insertion of role models and mentors, will form part of a permanent exemption of this nature to the Labor’s national mentoring program. The SDA when existing provisions can be used. Buddy Up program has been allocated some- Labor, as I have said, oppose this bill. (Quo- thing in the order of $5.7 million over the rum formed) forward estimates, and another $3 million Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (4.15 has been allocated to increase the number of p.m.)—I rise to speak against the Sex Dis- male teachers through our Bright Futures crimination Amendment (Teaching Profes- program. These are real initiatives with real sion) Bill 2004, the reasons for which have and practical benefits for boys in primary already been covered most eloquently by my school and are consistent with an evidence colleague Senator Ludwig. I would also say based approach to the issue. They highlight that in respect of my place on the speaking the fact that the lack of men in the teaching list there was a swap proposed with Senator profession is not due to a systemic discrimi- Nettle—and Senator Nettle is now here. nation or disadvantage that they face in ap- Given that I had that agreement with Senator plying for teaching courses or positions but Nettle, if it is appropriate I seek leave to al- due to men choosing not to enter the profes- low Senator Nettle to speak now and for me sion for other reasons. Labor’s five-point to speak immediately after her. plan for quality teachers will be more effec- Leave granted. tive than any attempts by the government to Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) deal with the serious issue of educational (4.16 p.m.)—I rise to put on record the views outcomes for boys by playing games with of the Australian Greens regarding the Sex amending the Sex Discrimination Act. Discrimination Amendment (Teaching Pro-
CHAMBER 23078 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 fession) Bill 2004, a bill that we would de- national emergency but we recognise that the scribe as a legislative stunt rather than a seri- failure of the profession to attract more male ous attempt to address what the Minister for students is symptomatic of broader problems Education, Science and Training perceives as that public school teachers in particular have problems. The minister would have us be- had to endure, including pay and status under lieve that he is deeply concerned about the this government. We are not opposed to gender demographic of teachers in our moves that encourage more men into teach- schools, especially our public schools. He is ing but what is much more important—and particularly fond of telling the story about this came up numerous times during the the gardener who is the only male member of committee hearings into the bill—is the need staff in over 200 public schools, and we are to attract high-quality students into the pro- supposed to choke on our tea at the news of fession. As the committee report into the bill this shocking development. It sounds as notes: though the minister did, so he has decided to At the hearing, Dr Ken Rowe from the ACER— take what he believes is decisive action. He the Australian Council for Educational Re- is going to fund some male-only scholar- search— ships—$1 million worth in a budget of $50 billion in expenditure—and he intends to gave an example of an extensive, long-term stra- tegic program in a number of Scandinavian coun- amend the Sex Discrimination Act. tries to address the teacher shortage issue. Remu- This is where the bill comes in. Essen- neration is part of the program, with teachers now tially, it is needed to legalise what is clearly a paid up to 2.5 times higher than their Australian discriminatory initiative. The Greens reject counterparts. As a result, in these countries it is this approach as being ineffectual, discrimi- actually harder to get into teaching than medicine natory and cheap. The Greens recognise that or law courses, with a consequential increase in a lack of male teachers, particularly in our the quality of the teaching staff. primary classrooms, is worthy of our con- I am sure that we can all remember our for- cern; the Commonwealth may even be justi- mative years as primary school students and fied in acting to address the situation. But, that we remember our teachers. What is usu- assuming that this is a problem worthy of our ally front and centre in this memory is not action, it will not seriously be addressed by whether the teacher was male or female but the measures announced by the minister. If whether or not they were good, bad or indif- he were serious, he would address the well- ferent. Our anecdotal evidence is backed up recognised disincentives to entry into the by many evidence based studies. The com- teaching profession: poor pay, low status of mittee report reveals that several submissions the profession and, particularly for male stu- argued that evidence based research, both dents, concerns over child protection issues. here and internationally, suggests that the But the minister has instead tossed a rela- quality of the teacher is far more important tively tiny amount of money at some schol- than the gender of the teacher. The Australian arships whilst creating a fuss over discrimi- Council for Educational Research, in its nation to get some headlines. submission, notes that the quality of teaching and learning provision are by far the most As I said, this is little more than a legisla- salient influences on students’ cognitive, ef- tive stunt; but we have to deal with the bill, fective and behavioural outcomes of school- and the Greens have many concerns. The ing, not teacher gender. Interestingly given Greens do not support the minister’s notion all the fuss on this issue, this appears to be that the relative lack of male teachers is a
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23079 the government’s view also. In the House of Catholic Education Office might think of Representatives Standing Committee on other ways to address their concerns and, as Education and Training report Boys: getting a result, they have applied to offer gender it right it was stated: specific scholarships that are equally divided ... the quality of the teacher is more important between male and female students. HREOC than the gender of teacher ... many teachers rec- have approved this move, and so you would ognise the positive effect the right type of men think that would be the end of the matter. No. can have when they work with boys, but the em- Enter the minister from stage right, sniffing phasis is on the right kind of men. the opportunity to take up the cudgel against Why shouldn’t it be a matter of common- the minister’s favourite foe, political correct- sense? As Dr Ken Rowe from the Australian ness. Dr Nelson, without reference to the Council for Educational Research said: Catholic Education Office, pledged to intro- ... it does not matter a hoot whether or not the duce legislation to overturn HREOC’s first teacher is male or female; it depends on the qual- decision. What followed has been a massive ity of the teaching ... providing teaching scholar- waste of parliament’s time dealing with this ships for persons of one gender is missing the bill in the wake of numerous media state- whole point. ments, mostly about the plight of gardeners, But clearly the minister was not convinced. by the minister in his attempt to address After all, why should we let commonsense boys’ issues decisively. All this of course get in the way of a classic emotive wedge must leave the excellent, talented and hard- issue just prior to an election? The Catholic working female teachers in our public Education Office played a role in sparking schools feeling somewhat bruised and be- this debate but they have taken a more sensi- mused by the implied slur on their abilities. ble approach than the minister through their But Dr Nelson is not fair dinkum. We know discussions with the Human Rights and this by the cheapness of his scholarship Equal Opportunity Commission. There was package—just $1 million that would trans- an original application from the Catholic late into 500 scholarships to male teachers if Education Office for exemption from the Sex this bill passes, which, of course, it will not. Discrimination Act, to offer male-only schol- The minister will not mind too much because arships. This kicked off a round of hand- the media job has been done. He will call the wringing from the minister’s office. That opposition parties names and pretend to be application was, quite rightly, rejected by the champion of male interests, thwarted by HREOC on the obvious grounds that men are dastardly do-gooders. clearly not discriminated against in attempts The minister and this government are not to enter the teaching profession and therefore prepared to do what really needs to be done the application of an obviously discrimina- to address the real problem with teacher re- tory measure is not justified on the allowable cruitment. The findings of the HREOC re- basis that it addresses an existing discrimina- port set out the key problems: ‘the status of tion. teachers in the community, child protection The HREOC judgment went on to note issues and the pay and conditions of teachers that the aims of the scholarship scheme pro- relative to other occupations’. The Australian posed by the Catholic Education Office Education Union endorses this view, listing would not in fact be achieved by that ap- remuneration, physical conditions, class proach. It is discriminatory and it will not sizes, workload, appropriate in-service train- work. HREOC then suggested that the ing and having opportunity for study leave
CHAMBER 23080 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 and professional development as the key disturbing trend continued in the budget last problems. night. Notwithstanding a couple of million In my home state of New South Wales the dollars for another phoney war against po- Vincent inquiry into public education reiter- litical correctness—the minister’s values ated these observations, whilst also noting program—public schools have no new that the ageing of the teaching work force money. In comparison, the private sector puts further pressure on governments to ad- have scored a $360 million windfall over the dress the need to recruit more, good students next four years. to the teaching profession. The government The government spent over $50 billion in can do something about it. It is well within budget measures but provided no new money the powers of the minister and his cabinet for public schools. That means that for the 70 colleagues to address the key issue of pay. per cent of school communities in Australia, The Vincent inquiry notes: there is no new money. It does not sound to Salaries increased by only 76 per cent of the av- me very much like a commitment to teachers erage increase in weekly earnings for males in all and students. It does not sound like the ac- occupations during the period 1972-88. Between tions of a government that has a genuine in- 1988 and 2002, when the increase in teachers’ pay terest in the recruitment of more good stu- was 21 per cent less than the increase in average dents to teaching or in even attracting more male weekly earnings. Between 1972 and 1988 males into the profession. The single most the increase in teachers’ salaries was 34 per cent effective measure that the government could less than the increase in average female earnings. During the period 1988-02 the increase in teach- have taken to address this advertised concern ers’ pay was 14 per cent less than the increase in would have been to significantly boost the average female earnings. public schools budget, allowing salaries to rise. But it is not just a lack of funds from the This is the core issue for teachers’ morale and the major disincentive for prospective Commonwealth to public schools that puts the lie to the minister’s expressions of con- students. As Vincent notes, the issue is not cern; the government actively campaigns to simply one of personal cash flow. Salary goes to the heart of the status of the profes- undermine the status of public schools and, by extension, their teaching staff. sion, which has seen its standing eroded over the last 20 years or so as its relative salary We have seen the Prime Minister criticise levels have been eroded. Whilst the states are what he calls ‘political correctness’ and ‘a largely responsible for the funding of public lack of values’ and we have seen constant schools, the Commonwealth also has a major criticism of teaching unions who work hard role to play. But the government and this to maintain and improve the status of teach- minister have deliberately downplayed that ers and the quality of our public schools. The responsibility. Commonwealth funding to Prime Minister has also invested his prestige public schools, as a share of total Common- in fronting generous funding announcements wealth schools funding, has declined from for the private school system, leaving parents over 40 per cent—when the coalition first watching in no doubt as to which system of came to office—and in the mid-1970s from schooling the government endorse. The gov- over 70 per cent to the record low of 28 per ernment, who have undermined the funding cent now. In the meantime, the funding that of public schools, who have lauded their the Commonwealth has directed to the pri- competitors and bankrolled their expansion vate sector has grown exponentially. This and who have publicly and prominently be- littled public school values and teaching
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23081 practices, are expecting us to believe that money into our public schools, then we they are genuinely concerned about attract- would really be addressing this issue. ing better students into the profession. Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (4.30 The Greens welcome the measures dealt p.m.)—The Sex Discrimination Amendment with in the committee report that are targeted (Teaching Profession) Bill 2004 seeks to at achieving this goal. We appreciate the amend the Sex Discrimination Act 1984. In steps taken that were described in the com- doing so it undermines the core purpose of mittee hearings by the Victorian Department the act, which is to address discrimination of Education and Training to actively pro- and disadvantage. There is no evidence to mote teaching as a profession and to set up suggest that the difference between the num- schemes to attract non-teaching professionals bers of men and women employed as teach- into teacher training and to encourage ex- ers is in any way based on gender discrimi- teachers to re-enter the profession. But the nation or disadvantage, nor is there evidence Greens reiterate the need to address the core to support the view that any gap in educa- issue of funding in order to improve salaries, tional outcomes between girls and boys is resources and class sizes and therefore mo- because of a lack of male teachers in schools. rale, status and career development opportu- So, in my view, there is simply no sustain- nities. At a federal level, that means oppos- able argument that can justify such an ing further increases in funding to private amendment to such a critical act. schools whilst the public sector suffers in A number of things have been said by the comparison. The Greens will oppose the government, which are not based in fact and move contained in last night’s budget, in- for which there is no evidence, about why stead calling for a redirection of those funds this bill is necessary. If this is the best the into the public school sector. We also call for government can do, I would argue that it has an end to the funding of the wealthiest pri- no interest in addressing the issues it claims vate schools, a saving of around $1.5 billion will be ameliorated as set out in this bill. Let over the next four years and for those funds us look at what the government claims the to go directly into priority public school pro- bill is intended to do. The government claims grams. that it addresses the so-called crisis of mas- These are the kinds of steps that are culinity, that it is aimed at addressing per- needed if we are to make real progress in ceived failures of our education system to rebuilding the status and conditions of teach- meet the needs of boys, that increasing the ers and in recruitment. But while the minister number of male teachers will help turn is more interested in media friendly wedge around this so-called crisis and the perceived issues, while he is more concerned with ped- failing, and that discriminating against dling the kind of legislative stunt that we are women by offering scholarships only to men dealing with today, this important priority, will address the shortage of male teachers in the future of public education, will continue our schools. to be overlooked by this government. The I believe the government is wrong on all Greens do not support this bill. It is mischie- counts. This bill does nothing to address the vous, needless and discriminatory, and it will so-called crisis of masculinity. It is undoubt- not work. It thoroughly deserves the defeat it edly true that many men, particularly men looks set to suffer in the Senate. If only we who have traditionally found work in male- could be voting for a bill that puts more dominated, low-skilled jobs, are struggling to
CHAMBER 23082 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 find their place in today’s society. It is also So let us look at what the government true that relationship breakdown is causing could have done if it were serious in address- considerable distress for many men, women ing the imbalance in the numbers of male and children in our community, and in par- and female teachers, and the effect of that ticular many men are feeling aggrieved at imbalance on the education of male school how they perceive they are treated by the students in particular. The funding of extra legal system following a relationship break- university places could have assisted ap- down. These are challenges our society proximately 2,700 men in 2004 to undertake needs to face and issues that need to be ad- further education in teaching, but the How- dressed, but this bill does nothing in respect ard government refused this extra funding. In of these matters. fact, since 1997 the Howard government has I would also argue that the so-called crisis turned away approximately 15,000 men from of masculinity stems in large part from our teaching. Labor, on the other hand, have a community’s belated rejection of the misuse comprehensive plan to get more men teach- of power and violence against women, with ing in our schools and to establish a mentor- the result that some men are having to find ing plan to give primary aged children access new ways of existing and behaving in the to male role models and mentors. world. I would like to pay tribute here to We know that this government is quite comments made by Senator Greig, who is in keen to pursue several policies that have the chamber, in the media about this whole been released by Labor this year, and per- argument. I hope he intends to go to this is- haps it could pick up a few initiatives that we sue again in his contribution. However, this have outlined with respect to this issue. We government is not interested in addressing believe we have a solid plan to get more any of those issues. There was a perfect op- male teachers into primary schools, includ- portunity for the government to address ing a national campaign to attract and target some of the issues with the fully-funded, quality entrants to teaching and to promote ready to release campaign against domestic the benefits of teaching to boys in their later violence, which was pulled out at the last high school years and at university. Labor minute on completely spurious grounds. If want to get the best teachers into schools and this is as good as it gets, the government is will do this by creating career pathways and just not serious. raising the profile and status of teaching as a In October 2002 the report on the inquiry profession for boys. Furthermore, we aim to into the education of boys, entitled Boys: keep these men teaching by targeting im- getting it right, was tabled in the parliament. provements in teaching skills and imple- Dr Brendan Nelson chaired that inquiry, and menting new financial and professional in- I would suggest that the government go back centives. to have another look at it. The report pro- We have also addressed the so-called cri- vides 24 recommendations that go to a range sis of masculinity through the development of different solutions that could be pursued. of a mentoring plan for primary school chil- However, it is notable that this report does dren, as I mentioned before. This includes an not recommend changing the Sex Discrimi- awareness campaign to encourage fathers nation Act. It is fairly obvious that what we and other men in the community such as have is a perceived quick fix to a particular sporting figures and community leaders to circumstance that provides no real solution participate in school activities and to pro- to the problems or to the issues raised. mote the value of mentoring boys. We plan
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23083 by the end of 2006 to have 10,000 new men- The ASPA asks, ‘What will constitute an tors trained and practising. I believe these acceptable rate of improvement for boys? initiatives provide real solutions as they ad- Are we intending that boys must achieve as dress the real issues. well as girls, when this has in fact never been An amendment to the Sex Discrimination the case?’ Act does not tackle the real issues in either The ASPA also points out another intrigu- the short or the long term. Amending the act ing finding of the UK report: ‘this Report has provides no solution to the gender imbalance found that where schools have introduced or the issues confronting teachers. It will not best practice programs explicitly designed to be the ability to get a male only scholarship improve the achievement of boys, it has that will encourage men into the teaching achieved that end. However, the performance profession, rather it will be by trying to gap between girls and boys at these schools tackle the serious factors of discouragement widened, as girls outcomes improved at a that currently exist, such as addressing the more rapid rate than before’. So it would issues of remuneration, creating inducements seem that even where you base your attempts to retain men in teaching and offering more to improve boys’ achievement rates on attractive career paths to attract new teach- proven interventions, based on sound cur- ers. riculum and quality teaching, the achieve- So let us look at another of the claims that ment gap does not necessarily narrow. But underpins the introduction of this bill. There the government does not care about proven is a perception that our education system is interventions or evidence, as this bill shows. failing boys and that boys are not achieving I ask: where is the evidence that increasing in schools. What that actually means, it the number of male teachers will in any way seems, is that they are not achieving at the address boys’ performance? Every report and same rate as girls. The Australian Education every expert in this field has said that it is Union’s submission to the inquiry pointed quality teaching not the gender of the teacher out—and they in turn were quoting the Aus- that matters. tralian Secondary Principals Association’s Even the government’s own inquiry— submission to the inquiry into the education which I alluded to before—into boy’s educa- of boys—that boys’ underperformance and tion found that, and yet the government begs the extent of it: to differ. Now the Minister for Education, ... reflect a trend identified in most northern Science and Training, Dr Brendan Nelson, European based cultures. The United Kingdom who chaired that inquiry, seems to have had Foundation for Educational Research project ‘An a damascene revelation along the way differ- Investigation into Gender Differences in ent from that which was articulated in his Achievement’ has been a landmark report in this report. Not only that, but this government area and many of its observations are very perti- suggests that teachers are needed to some- nent to this Inquiry. how be substitute fathers for boys—not nec- The ASPA’s submission points out that, in essarily for girls it would seem. As if a keeping with the findings of this project in teacher whose role it is to teach can some- Australia, boys’ achievement have not de- how compensate for fathers who are absent clined over the past 20 years. In fact boys’ for whatever reason, or in some way be role achievement levels have risen and continue models for boys. As PhD candidate Janet to rise. The ‘problem’ it seems, is that girls’ Smith wrote in her submission to the inquiry attainment rates have risen at a faster rate.
CHAMBER 23084 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 into this bill based on her research into the not issues of discrimination or disadvantage experience of male primary school teachers: that are stopping men from entering the The current demands for more male primary teaching profession; therefore there are no teachers erroneously conflates parenting and grounds to use the Sex Discrimination Act to teaching. This is extremely confusing for male address any imbalance in numbers. In fact, primary teachers who regard themselves as teach- one might suggest that, if the government ers and not substitute parents. If boys need more wants to look at the issue of discrimination male role models, attention should perhaps be within the teaching profession, they could focused on greater involvement of fathers and well be advised to investigate the dispropor- other significant men in their lives. It is unrealis- tic for male primary teachers to be expected to be tionate number of men in promoted posi- role models and father substitutes. tions, positions that often take them right out of the classroom and into a managerial ca- However, in spite of all I have said, there pacity. Perhaps a few women teachers might may still be an argument for trying to attract suggest that a way of increasing the number more young men into teaching. I think that of male teachers is to prevent men from be- argument may well exist along the lines that ing promoted over the heads of their female schools, like our police forces, our medical colleagues and out of the classroom, there- profession and, dare I say, our parliaments fore leaving fewer male teachers. But no-one should in their make-up reflect the make-up would consider that acceptable, would they? of our society. I therefore look forward to the Prime Minister’s support for the introduction Senator Patterson—Are you suggesting of an affirmative action policy for the prese- that for nursing? lection of Liberal Party candidates for public Senator MACKAY—Anyway, regardless office. But I digress. Assuming we need to of the intent, amending the Sex Discrimina- attract more men into teaching, is changing tion Act and offering scholarships to men the Sex Discrimination Act so that we can only will not increase the number of male discriminate against women and offer schol- teachers because it fails to address a couple arships only to men the way to achieve that? of fundamental issues. Men are not attracted Again, the glaring answer from anyone in a to teaching it seems—based on research, not position to know is a resounding no. Again, I anecdote—because teaching is perceived as will quote from Janet Smith whose research ‘women’s work’—and I note the comments leads her to argue: of Senator Patterson, earlier—and as such Changes to the Sex Discrimination Act would has been traditionally undervalued and un- be justified if it could be shown that there are derpaid; hence this whole string of work existing barriers to males becoming primary value cases over the years. Compounding the school teachers. This does not currently appear to problem is the perception that men entering be the case as the statistics reveal an increase in teaching are somehow suspect in the light of the number of males commencing university de- growing awareness about sexual abuse of grees to become primary school teachers over the children. Discriminating against women will past decade. There is also evidence that male pri- address neither of these issues. I have articu- mary teachers already receive positive discrimi- nation when applying for jobs, as primary schools lated some of the things that could have been are so keen to employ more males. done and that we intend to do if elected. Whilst I do not necessarily agree that If this government were serious about ad- changes definitely would be justified, the dressing attainment levels in schools, it basic argument is clear and irrefutable. It is would look to addressing the most signifi-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23085 cant barrier to achievement, and that is so- one who studied primary school teaching at cioeconomic status. But how does this gov- university and began their career doing some ernment deal with that issue? It deals with it practicals in primary schools before wander- by pouring money into elite private schools ing on to other things—but I might touch on and impoverishing the struggling public that in a moment. However, let me signal schools around this country. I cannot help from the outset that this is a bill which the but be left with the impression that this gov- Democrats will not be supporting. ernment has no intention of truly addressing In his second reading speech, the Attor- issues to do with educational achievement of ney-General outlined his rationale for the boys. Rather, it seems that it has picked up bill. He cited the fact that boys’ education on a bit of internal polling, belatedly realis- outcomes are falling behind those of girls ing that education is seen as a key issue by and directly linked this problem to an imbal- the community and that it is way behind La- ance between male and female teachers and a bor in terms of having any cohesive plan— lack of male role models in schools. The At- not assisted at all by the budget yesterday— torney went on to outline that teaching is not or commitment to addressing the issue. So it an attractive career option for men because has fallen back on the old trick of throwing of salary concerns and fear of child abuse up a smokescreen and pandering to the mem- allegations, and concluded that this bill is a bers of our community who are feeling disaf- vital measure to address the gender imbal- fected and who want a target to blame for ance for the benefit of all students. The De- their feelings. So it is back to wedge politics mocrats do not agree with that, and the evi- 101—‘Who can we blame?’—whilst doing dence presented to the inquiry—which I at- nothing to seriously address the underlying tended and participated in—by numerous issues. Will it be migrants, homosexuals, experts in the field also offers little, if any- Aborigines? No, this time let us blame thing, to support the Attorney-General’s as- women. If only there were fewer women sertions. teachers, boys would be doing better. Well In seeking to justify the need for this bill, that is simply not good enough and it simply the government has cobbled together a series shows how tired and bereft of ideas and of assorted facts and questionable half-truths leadership this government is. to suggest that boys’ under achievement and Senator Patterson—That is not true! men’s disinterest in teaching will be a step Senator MACKAY—We will not be sup- closer to resolution if the Sex Discrimination porting this bill because it will not achieve Act, or the SDA, is amended to allow male- anything for boys’ education and, Senator only scholarships. In short, the government’s Patterson, you know it. It attacks the integ- analysis is simplistic, flawed and heavily rity of the Sex Discrimination Act and is reliant on a sexist analysis and gender stereo- simply a ploy to divert attention from the types that we believe are contributing to the government’s major failing to genuinely ad- problem in the first place. dress the educational needs of all young Aus- The government first raised the prospect tralians. of this bill in response to an unsuccessful Senator GREIG (Western Australia) application by the Catholic Education Office (4.46 p.m.)—I too join in this debate on the to the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Sex Discrimination Amendment (Teaching Commission to be granted an exemption un- Profession) Bill 2004, and I do so as some- der the SDA that would allow it to offer
CHAMBER 23086 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 male-only scholarships. HREOC denied that HREOC found that there was insufficient request. It found that, while it is true that evidence to support a finding that scholar- there is a significant gender imbalance in the ships would have any discernible impact on teaching profession, it could not be said that the gender imbalance in the teaching profes- this was the result of discrimination. In fact, sion. This was because the reasons for the the reverse was the case: men tend to be imbalance could be reduced to three primary overrepresented in positions of higher pay factors—as acknowledged by the Attorney- and greater authority. According to Janet General in the other place, the Boys: getting Smith, a lecturer at the University of Can- it right report and submitters to the Senate berra who has recently completed a doctoral inquiry looking into the bill. The status of thesis on this subject, the relative shortage of teachers in the community, pay and condi- male teachers confers a range of benefits that tions, and fears in relation to child protection include positive discrimination in employ- issues all combine to make teaching an unat- ment and promotion, being mentored, no- tractive proposition to many men. ticed and appreciated, and developing spe- Most of the evidence presented to the cialisations. There is no evidence that the Senate inquiry highlighted that the status, shortage of male teachers is the result of dis- pay and condition issues are largely a conse- crimination. In fact the contrary is true, and quence of teaching being seen as women’s this marks the first reason why we Democ- work. The Australian Education Union said rats oppose the bill. that where professions have traditionally Our second reason for opposing the bill is been dominated by women and seen as the that the SDA marks a hard-won benchmark work of nurturers, it has resulted in not only of protection against discrimination on the low professional status but also equally low grounds of sex. To now amend that act in remuneration. Teachers have been critical of response to an issue that in itself is not the wage levels for many years and some have result of discrimination seriously undermines quite rightly questioned why, now that there the act, is in conflict with long-established is a focus on men in the classroom, wages principles of equality and risks placing Aus- for teachers have suddenly been recognised tralia in contravention of international law. as an important issue when women have This position is supported by HREOC, the been raising the issue of low pay in tradi- Victorian Institute of Teaching, the Law In- tionally female occupations for many years. stitute of Victoria, the Australian Education We contend that offering scholarships of Union, the Independent Education Union of just a few thousand dollars to men will do Australia, the WA Equal Opportunity Com- absolutely nothing to change the status, pay mission and the Australian Council for Edu- or conditions and nor will it remedy the fact cational Research. Rather than increasing the that, although the number of men entering level of positive discrimination for men, the education is currently on the increase, evi- Australian Democrats have some sympathy dence indicates that few are staying to com- for the view that addressing the apparent plete the course. It will do nothing to address discrimination resulting in women’s under- the fact that the government’s appalling representation in the higher paid, non- higher education policies mean that this year teaching positions may be more effective. alone almost 10,000 applicants—or 40 per Our third reason for opposing the bill is cent of applicants—failed to secure a place that in its original finding in the CEO case— in teaching at Australian universities. And a the Catholic Education Office case— scholarship will not do much to respond to
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23087 the issues of child protection fears. I was lation contain exemptions so that it can con- quite astonished and disappointed at how tinue to discriminate in employment and in little focus was brought to that issue in the education on the grounds of sexuality. The committee’s inquiry. A range of strategies Catholic Church has been at the forefront of were identified, many valid, to respond to lobbying against same-sex adoption, rela- other factors that prevent men choosing tionship recognition and freedom from dis- teaching as a career—such as status and crimination. It almost always argues on the pay—but very little consideration was given grounds of the safety and protection of chil- to strategies to address child protection. In dren. In doing so, the Catholic Church has fact, the issue was not even explicitly re- been guilty of contributing to the very sys- ferred to in the committee’s findings. tem that also stops many men from choosing What is wrong with a society in which so teaching as a profession. much community debate focuses on the de- Would-be male teachers are caught in an sired role of men as fathers and teachers, inescapable bind that, on the one hand, re- identifies—rather sadly—that men fear hav- quires them to demonstrate more stereotypi- ing contact with children for fear of being cally feminine, caring and nurturing charac- labelled and then fails to seriously approach teristics in their work with children but, on the issue? I have previously argued that this the other hand, leaves them open to suspi- blindness amounts to a national psychosis cion as they fulfil that less than manly, pos- that has at its base sexism and homopho- sibly gay, possibly paedophilic, role. Yet, bia—and I am not alone in drawing that unbelievably and contradictorily, they are comparison. Janet Smith, from the Univer- also expected to be good, strong male role sity of Canberra, whom I referred to earlier, models for boys. They cannot win, and it is talks about these issues in relation to male hardly surprising that many of them stay teachers by referring to teaching as a ‘pink away in droves. Interestingly, nowhere is this collar’ profession for men. One of the prob- desired masculinity defined; but it is cer- lems that she sees is that men avoid teach- tainly desired to be heterosexual in nature, at ing—and by my own extrapolation a range least in church schools. of other careers and activities—because by The subtext to the government’s argument choosing to work in a feminine profession or in favour of heterosexual male role models in to take up other stereotypical feminine pur- schools can also be found in its arguments suits they are seen to be homosexual. Addi- about same-sex parenting and single parent tionally, by choosing to work with children, families—that is, there is some risk to boys men are often viewed with suspicion and as that they will not grow up to be real men if potential child molesters. their role models are too female or possibly Of course, historically, homosexuality and gay. The fear is that boys taught by women paedophilia have often been seen to amount will be effeminised and will fail to develop to the same thing. Leading the charge in this strong, male identities because of a lack of a respect has most often been the Catholic strong, male role model. The reality is that, Church—the very organisation instigating as long as these ridiculous notions about changes to the SDA to address the apparent masculinity and male role modelling are re- shortage of male teachers. The Catholic inforced, boys will fail to strive for academic Church has successfully ensured that the Sex excellence rather than for more stereotypi- Discrimination Act, the Workplace Relations cally masculine pursuits like sport and physi- Act and state based antidiscrimination legis- cal bravado. To do otherwise, they will run
CHAMBER 23088 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 the risk of being perceived as effeminate or act to ensure it responds appropriately to gay; and men will fail to choose teaching as alternative gender identities. a career option, lest they be branded as gay Finally, we will seek to amend section 38 or suspected of paedophilia. of the SDA, which provides religious groups At any rate, and hardly surprisingly, all with employment exemptions in education, evidence to the inquiry questioned the valid- to now limit those exceptions to instances ity of the role model argument. What is clear where that discrimination is in order to better is that it is the quality of teachers and par- enable the institution to be conducted in ac- ents, not their gender, that is the defining cordance with those religious tenets, beliefs difference in a child’s development. For and teachings. This amendment will look at these reasons, the Australian Democrats will the capacity for an educational institution to not be supporting this bill. The bill under- conduct its religious activities rather than mines the integrity of the SDA in order to whether an individual’s religious suscepti- respond to an issue that has no basis in dis- bilities might be injured. crimination. The bill will not address the We regard it as totally unacceptable that a core reasons men do not enter the teaching religious organisation, be it Catholic or oth- profession—status, pay and child protection erwise, should have the capacity to discrimi- issues. The bill is based on a philosophy that nate against the employment of some men is sexist and homophobic and contrary to the because they happen to be gay, or perceived evidence. Instead, the Democrats have rec- to be so, and then to apply for further exemp- ommended that strategies identified in the tions under the act to discriminate in favour committee inquiry process that respond to of employing others to make up the shortfall. issues of status and pay be further explored. Our amendments will ensure this cannot oc- In order to address those issues I have cur and will be one more step towards ensur- highlighted here regarding the detrimental ing that sanctioned homophobia and the link- effect of rigid gender role enforcement and ing of homosexuality to paedophilia are re- discrimination, keeping gay teachers out of moved from law. We Democrats believe that schools, the Democrats will be moving a a cross-section of people should be found in number of amendments to the bill. We will all walks of life. This bill does nothing to be moving an amendment that extends the achieve that. The committee clearly found definition of ‘sex’ in the Sex Discrimination that there were no legal barriers or specific Act to include sexual orientation. This defi- discrimination preventing men from entering nition is consistent with two United Nations teaching. Therefore this bill is a nonsense in Human Rights Committee cases. The first, that it proposes to remove hurdles of dis- from 1994, was the case of Toonen v. Austra- crimination that do not exist. lia, which led to the overturning of Tasma- Debate (on motion by Senator Ian nia’s antigay laws, and more recently there Campbell) adjourned. was the finding last year in the case of Young NOTICES v. Australia. In both cases, the UNHRC ruled that the definition of ‘sex’ in articles 2 and Presentation 26 of the International Covenant on Civil and Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western Political Rights includes sexual orientation in Australia—Manager of Government Busi- matters of freedom from discrimination. We ness in the Senate) (4.59 p.m.)—by leave—I will also be moving amendments to change give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I the definition of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ in the shall move:
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23089
That the provisions of paragraphs (5), (6) and FAMILY ASSISTANCE LEGISLATION (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the follow- AMENDMENT (MORE HELP FOR ing bills, allowing them to be considered during FAMILIES—INCREASED PAYMENTS) BILL this period of sittings: 2004 Family Assistance Legislation Amendment Purpose of the Bill (More Help for Families—One-off The Bill amends the family assistance law to: Payments) Bill 2004, and the • provide an ongoing increase in the maximum Family Assistance Legislation Amendment and base rates of family tax benefit (Part A) (More Help for Families—Increased of $600 annually for each FTB child, to be Payments) Bill 2004. paid on income reconciliation; I table statements of reasons justifying the • reduce the income test taper rate for the need for these bills to be considered during maximum rate of Family Tax Benefit Part A, these sittings and seek leave to have the from 30 cents in the dollar to 20 cents in the dollar; statements incorporated in Hansard. • introduce a new maternity payment of $3000 Leave granted. payable as a lump sum regardless of income The statements read as follows— from 1 July 2004; • reduce the rate at which family tax benefit FAMILY ASSISTANCE LEGISLATION Part B is withdrawn under the income test, AMENDMENT (MORE HELP FOR from 30 cents in the dollar to 20 cents in the FAMILIES—ONE-OFF PAYMENTS) BILL dollar; 2004 • increase the amount of income a secondary Purpose of the Bill earner in a partnered relationship can earn The Bill provides for the payment of the follow- before entitlement to family tax benefit Part ing one-off payments to families and carers who B is affected, from $1825 to $4000 annually. meet certain eligibility conditions on Budget Reasons for Urgency night: The measures in the Bill commence on 1 July • a one-off payment to families of $600 per 2004. Passage is required as a matter of urgency child; to enable the necessary IT systems changes and other administrative arrangements to be put in • a one-off payment of $1000 to carers in re- place. ceipt of carer payment; (Circulated by authority of the Minister for Fam- • a one-off payment to carers of $600 for each ily and Community Services) care receiver for whom they are receiving carer allowance. FIRST SPEECH The one-off payments will be exempt from tax. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Brandis)—Before I call Senator The Bill also provides for the establishment of an administrative scheme, by disallowable instru- Fifield, I remind honourable senators that ment, to provide payments in circumstances this is his first speech. I therefore ask that the where the statutory one-off payments regime does usual courtesies be extended to him. not produce an appropriate result. Senator FIFIELD (Victoria) (5.00 Reasons for Urgency p.m.)—I am proud to represent the great Passage is required as a matter of urgency to en- state of Victoria in this place. Victorians are able the one-off payments to be made by the end thoughtful, optimistic and a little playful. I of June 2004. love representing them, and I am proud to (Circulated by authority of the Minister for Fam- represent a party and a government led by a ily and Community Services) Prime Minister that understand good eco- ————— nomic management is the only underpinning
CHAMBER 23090 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 for good social policy. As I rise in the Senate, aid advocate, Senate deputy leader, cabinet I want to acknowledge the friendship and minister and Australia’s longest serving support of many people in the Liberal Party, communications minister. Richard has been a without whom I would not have the opportu- great servant of his party, his state and the nity and honour to represent my state and my nation. I want to record my gratitude for his party in the national parliament. I take the support and guidance. Richard will be re- time to do so because the people of Australia, garded in his post-parliamentary life as one particularly in this chamber, put great trust in of Australia’s great senators and one of the political parties which in turn put their faith substantial figures of Australian politics. in individuals to honour that charge. In many respects I do not come to this I am grateful to Senator Kemp and my place with a typically Liberal family back- colleagues in another place—Tony Smith ground. My aunt and uncle, I am afraid to and Peter Costello—for their advice, support admit, were political staffers in the Whitlam and unstinting friendship and for all that I and Hawke-Keating governments. And my have learned from them about good govern- grandfather, Bert Fifield, served for more ment, good policy and good politics. I thank than 20 years as Federal Secretary and New those who have offered me opportunities to South Wales President of the Printing and contribute to public life: my former employ- Kindred Industries Union. A left factional ers Alan Brown and those in another place, convenor from the other side of this chamber Bruce Baird and John Anderson. In particu- even gave the eulogy at his funeral. The turn- lar, I thank them for what they have taught ing point in my family’s political views came me about decency in politics and for the when Prime Minister Chifley endeavoured to chance to see Australia from many angles nationalise the private banks. My parents, and in many guises. I acknowledge the sup- both bank employees, saw that Labor was port and friendship of Victorian Liberal Party inherently opposed to enterprise and choice. President Helen Kroger, and I thank State They taught me early: do not look at what Director Julian Sheezel for his friendship and Labor says, look at what Labor does. wise counsel. Mr President, I stand in this place as a For anyone who has stood in this cham- Liberal because I am committed to opportu- ber, there are people without whom it would nity and to choice. Each of us has our own not have been. In that context I thank my world view—a frame of reference that in- good friends Narelle Sheezel, Jason Ald- forms the decisions we make—but, as legis- worth and Michael Kroger. I also want to lators, we do not have the right to simply acknowledge my former colleagues in the vote to impose our views on the community. office of Peter Costello—a group who were a We all have free will. The expression of that second family for 7½ years or, as we tended may not always please us, but it is the right to measure it, eight budgets—particularly of every Australian to exercise it. That is Liz McCabe, Dave Alexander, Niki Savva, why in this place I will be influenced, but not Michael O’Brien, Rob Jeremenko and Phil driven by, my own personal convictions. My Gaetjens. inclination will be towards maximising eco- This Senate and our nation were well nomic and personal liberty for Australians. served by my predecessor, the Hon. Richard I have worked in politics for 15 years in Alston: 20 years at the bar, Victorian party and around the New South Wales, Victorian president, a teacher of disadvantaged kids, and Commonwealth parliaments. It is a pro-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23091 fession of which I am proud. But the knowl- Since 1996 enrolments in independent edge I have gained and the experiences I schools have increased by 13.3 per cent, have had outside my professional life have while enrolments in state schools have in- shaped me and my approach to public life as creased by only 1.6 per cent. These statistics much as those within—like those of my par- merely reflect parental choice. The Com- ents. Neither went beyond the third year of monwealth’s financial contribution to educa- high school, but dad was fortunate to attend a tion facilitates choice. If the Australian gov- selective high school, Fort Street High, in ernment did not support the independent Sydney. Fort Street was an avenue of oppor- school sector, access would be confined to an tunity for working-class kids. It produced elite, wealthy minority. Many of Australia’s Neville Wran, Garfield Barwick, John Kerr small, modest, independent schools would and Edmund Barton. Through education it not be able to survive. Choice would be de- gave opportunity to working-class kids to nied and the cost to the public purse would become premiers, chief justices, governors- grow exponentially. general and prime ministers. Although dad There are parents who, regardless of the left school in year 9 to get a job at the end of choices available and standards within the the war, his schooling still afforded him great state system, choose to send their children to opportunities. That is why I am a Liberal an independent school. They do so because today—because I know the importance of of personal philosophy, religion, family his- opportunity. tory, tradition. There are others who only Education will always be an area where send their children to independent schools the Liberal Party and the Labor Party differ because they feel the public system does not greatly. It is where the philosophical battle have the same commitment to excellence or will play out most clearly. As Liberals, we sufficient choice in the types of schools on stand for maximising choice; we stand for offer. For many parents today, the govern- maximising opportunity. As a coalition gov- ment sector is not offering the range of op- ernment, we need to continually look for tions for which they are looking and which ways to maximise opportunity and to fight they are entitled to expect. for it when it is being restricted. That is why Both independent and state schools must I am passionate about the role of selective cater for students of all aptitudes, from gifted high schools in Australia. Opportunities are pupils to those with learning difficulties. being lost in our state school systems Both ends of the spectrum represent specific through the failure of the states to establish needs and all students deserve the right envi- schools based on achievement and excel- ronment to achieve their potential. Most Aus- lence. Parents, above all, want choice. Every tralian state governments do not willingly parent recognises the value of good teachers support a culture of achievement in their and good schools. They want choice between secondary schools—schools that foster and a range of quality education options. They embrace excellence or which specialise in a want choice between a strong independent particular discipline: music, sport, science, sector and a strong government sector. But agriculture or technology. Most states do not parents also want, and students deserve, even offer academically selective state high choice within these two sectors. There are a schools—those schools with an enrolment wide range of options within the independent policy based on academic achievement and sector, but choices are far more limited entrance exams. within the state sector.
CHAMBER 23092 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Selective high schools are one way that the fault of principals, though. It is not the states can provide a high-quality public al- fault of teachers. State educators do incredi- ternative to independent schools and offer bly well within the narrow confines imposed opportunities to students on the basis of by the states. It is up to the state govern- merit, regardless of means. New South Wales ments to have the vision to put the right has historically enjoyed a far more diverse framework in place to allow teachers to do state secondary school system than the other their best for their students. State govern- states. For instance, New South Wales has 17 ments around Australia have been too terri- fully selective high schools, seven high fied to claim and use the word ‘excellence’. schools with selective classes and four agri- They have been scared of the teacher unions cultural high schools offering selective and of being tagged as ‘elitist’, as if aspira- placements—in total, 28 high schools with a tion is something to be ashamed of rather selective element. Some of these are general than something to be nurtured and encour- selective high schools like Sydney Boys aged. High. Others, such as James Ruse Agricul- Selective schools have served for over a tural High, are centres of excellence and are century and a half as a ladder for talented consistently among the top academic schools kids regardless of means, regardless of back- in the state. James Ruse defies the stereotype ground. I use the word ‘ladder’ deliberately of great academic schools. It is co- because Labor have no political copyright on educational, it is a state school, it is in an it. It is easy to use and appropriate the lan- outer suburb and it specialises in agriculture. guage of merit and hope; it is much harder to It does not fit the stereotype we have in our have the courage to adopt policies that give mind of the great academic school: we think expression and meaning to the rhetoric. Se- private, single sex, in an inner-city suburb lective schools are an avenue of opportunity, and definitely not agricultural. but they are under threat from Labor. The The only other state with fully selective New South Wales government has received a high schools, Victoria, has just two: Mel- report calling for the dismantling of many of bourne High for boys and Mac.Robertson for its selective schools. This must not happen. girls. Both are exemplary schools whose stu- There is no lack of money in state govern- dents consistently perform among the best in ment coffers to establish and maintain selec- the year 12 exams. But there are only two of tive high schools and centres of excellence. those schools for Victoria. New South Wales But there is a lack of will on the part of state also has centres of excellence in particular government leaders. This lack of will is de- disciplines such as Cherrybrook Technology nying students opportunity, it is denying par- High, Conservatorium High and Newtown ents choice and it is denying our community High School of the Performing Arts. The the strong and vital public education sector it conservatorium and Newtown are not selec- deserves. It is strong competition between tive in an academic sense but do require schools, between school sectors and within auditions and interviews. There is a focus on school sectors that will strengthen both state excellence and achievement in a particular and independent education. discipline. We know from the Intergenerational Re- The failure of the Australian state school port of 2002 that demographic trends mean system to provide a comprehensive range of Australia will be reliant upon relatively merit based selective schools and centres of fewer in the work force to finance the needs excellence is a national outrage. This is not of an ageing population. We will be expect-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23093 ing more from future generations. In this equate to proximity. It is proximity that gives context, second best for our students will not meaning to human contact and to commu- be an option. Why should state students put nity. Ultimately what determines the true up with a monochromatic secondary school quality of our lives is the quality of the rela- system, particularly in the state of Victoria? tionships we have. Community is what hap- Why not have selective high schools, agri- pens when we engage. This engenders rela- cultural high schools, technology high tionships we otherwise would not have un- schools, performing arts high schools, com- dertaken in circumstances we would not prehensive high schools, co-educational high have otherwise found. schools and single-sex high schools? What is I propose a measure that could provide wrong with each school having its own char- both incentive and reward for young people acter, its own identity and its own areas of to become more involved in the community. specialty? Let us offer university students the opportu- Let’s embrace choice, let’s embrace vari- nity to reduce their HECS debt by a few ety, let’s embrace difference and excellence. thousand dollars each year in return for un- Let’s even bring back the old ‘tech schools’ dertaking weekly volunteer or community in Victoria. Let’s recognise that students work. This measure would encourage com- have the right to have their potential and munity work and increase the likelihood their opportunities maximised. Allowing these people would continue their involve- people to reach their potential unrestricted is ment in later life. This would involve a dis- not the essence of elitism; it is the essence of count on HECS fees for a certain number of true egalitarianism. Unfortunately, Labor is hours spent each week with a recognised hostile to the very avenues of educational charity or community group. Part of the opportunity from which particularly low- HECS debt could be forgiven in exchange income families have benefited and stand to for, say, five hours per week or 200 hours a benefit in the future. We need to give our year of community service with a recognised children the opportunity to be their best. And charity or community group. If each hour if the states will not then perhaps the Austra- was valued at, say, $10 this would amount to lian government will need to take an even a $2,000 saving each year on their HECS greater interest in school education. I will be liability. asking the federal Minister for Education, I fully support the HECS system. I sup- Science and Training what avenues might be ported the Labor government’s introduction open to the Australian government to per- of HECS while at university, despite the op- suade the states to introduce selective position of its own party members on cam- schools and centres of excellence. pus. It is right that those who derive the most Mr President, those who have been given direct benefit from further education make opportunity through education have a great an appropriate financial contribution. But we responsibility to build and contribute to the can use the mechanism provided by HECS to communities in which they live. One of the foster greater community interaction and most common cries today is that we have involvement. The scheme could be available lost our sense of community. The paradox is to undergraduates undertaking their first de- we have never been more connected as a gree and a similar scheme could be put in community by transport and technology but, place to reduce the upfront cost for TAFE at the same time, never more distant from students undertaking vocational courses. each other. Contact and connectedness do not
CHAMBER 23094 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Students could tutor disadvantaged chil- May I be worthy of the trust placed in me dren, assist the churches in their charitable by the people of Victoria. I pledge to always work with the young, or work with organisa- work to ensure a better Victoria and a better tions that care for the aged. Young people Australia for my daughter’s generation. I would become more intimately acquainted thank the Senate for the courtesy extended to with their neighbourhoods and the problems me. which confront them. There would be a SEX DISCRIMINATION AMENDMENT slight lifting of the financial burden on stu- (TEACHING PROFESSION) BILL 2004 dents and a greater lifting of some of soci- Second Reading ety’s burdens. This measure would encour- age greater community understanding—that Debate resumed. misfortune befalls many people often Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia) through no fault of their own and that its (5.22 p.m.)—I support the Sex Discrimina- remedies lie with people not just govern- tion Amendment (Teaching Profession) Bill ment. Hopefully, it would foster lifelong 2004 and want to commence my remarks by community involvement. looking at the problem that it seeks to ad- This is an idea I first raised with my pre- dress. The Australian Bureau of Statistics selectors in October last year and have dis- report Schools, Australia, 2002 highlighted cussed extensively as I have moved through- the problem when it stated: out Victoria. I have raised the idea with the Between 1992 and 2002, the proportion of male Prime Minister and have commended it for school teachers (in full time equivalent measure) his consideration. To be a compassionate declined from 25.8% to 20.9% in primary schools society means being able to put yourself in and from 49.4% to 44.9% in secondary schools. the shoes of another and understand what This problem is even worse considering that makes them different and why they find the number of men currently in training to be themselves in their particular circumstance. primary school teachers across the nation is This scheme would, in a small way, help en- down to 18.8 per cent of the total number of gender greater community and rebuild social teachers in primary training—in other words, capital. It is only when we keep coming back less than one in five. That is a significant to our core Liberal values of choice, inde- imbalance. Is the imbalance a problem? pendence and responsibility that we find the From my personal experience of parenting, policies that facilitate opportunity. the role modelling of two parents—a father I want to acknowledge the love and sup- and a mother—is essential. There is an port of my extended family: the Fifields, the enormous body of law and in-depth research Fords and the O’Learys—especially my that indicates that, for the proper develop- brothers, Scott and Matt; sister-in-law, De- ment of an infant to an adolescent child, nise; John and Di Ford; and John and An- there needs to be the involvement of a nette O’Leary. I thank my great friend Liz mother and, I stress particularly, a father. O’Leary for her enduring support. My only With respect to teaching, the imbalance of regret today is that my late parents, Alan and one in five, which I have indicated are the Jan Fifield, are not able to share this day. I figures, is a considerable problem and is thank my three-year-old daughter, Ruby, who cause for alarm. In our current educational is in the gallery, for her love and curiosity system, we have far too many children who which keeps everything in perspective. are passing through infancy and the primary school system with no real male role models.
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23095
This is cause for great concern. In regions in disadvantaged areas throughout Australia. with many low-socioeconomic and disadvan- We need to do something about this and we taged families, schools are educating chil- need to do it very quickly. We need to get dren who have grown up without a father male teachers back into our primary schools, and who have gone to schools where there in particular. We need them to provide the are no male teachers. This is a major and sort of male role model that is desperately significant problem. needed by so many of these children. Male teachers do make a difference when I want to talk about the research into why educating students, particularly boys. They boys, in particular, need male teachers. Boys can reach out to boys in a way that female need diverse masculine role models. Male teachers cannot. I have a number of friends teachers fit the bill exactly, particularly with who are in the teaching profession at primary respect to playing sport and a whole host of schools and high schools, and they impart to other pursuits that involve a degree of physi- me their knowledge and understanding of the cal exertion. Boys form a totally different significant role that male teachers play, par- relationship with male teachers than they do ticularly in primary schools. A colleague and with female teachers. Male teachers tend to friend of mine, who was a principal in a dis- tolerate more and be able to accommodate advantaged area until fairly recently, told me more boyish behaviour. Male teachers tend that his greatest dilemma was in providing to teach differently from females. They tend appropriate role models for his students as to be able to use more colourful language, typically his school population was made up more jokes et cetera. A recent report in the of third-generation matriarchal families, United Kingdom showed that males tend to where mum was the only adult in the family assess student work differently. They are not and had never had a job and, for that matter, so concerned with neat and precise work and nor had grandma. At his school he had a stu- handwriting; they more readily accept work dent population of over 300 students with presented in a form that is more acceptable about 20 full-time teachers, and of those 20 to young boys. only two were males. He told me that the Senator Crossin—Tell me you were other 18 female staff were all terrific teach- never in the classroom; you’d better stick to ers who performed above and beyond the law. call of duty in that difficult school. However, Senator JOHNSTON—These are the they were the first to admit that they could sorts of things that are very important in not provide the male perspective or outlook primary school—things that I note the oppo- that so many of the children yearned for and, sition are simply not prepared to accommo- indeed, may I say, desperately needed. date. The opposition to this bill coming from The aspiration levels of these children the other side of the chamber is surprising were of great concern to my principal friend. given the statements of the Labor Party At- These children could not come to grips with torney-General in the other place. In com- the notion that, if you went to school and menting on this debate, shadow Attorney- worked hard, you could gain either a good General Roxon said: job or entry into a tertiary institution. As I As the minister says, it— said, mum had never had a job and nor had grandma. These children face a very bleak, that is, changing the Sex Discrimination narrow future. What really concerns me is Act— that this scenario is painted many times over
CHAMBER 23096 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 might encourage some men to go into teaching hand, when we want to institute a scholar- instead of into other courses. This report goes into ship system that arrests a clear problem in great detail about the problem being retaining teaching, particularly in primary schools, men in classrooms. So what is going to happen Labor says no. Labor has a problem in get- with these young men who are attracted to teach- ting women into winnable positions in the ing if no other measures are put in place to keep them there? Labor Party, so it says, ‘Let’s mandate one- third, regardless of merit.’ It is good enough The fact is that we want to attract them into for the Labor Party but not good enough for teaching in the first place. Indeed, Ms Roxon primary school students—not good enough indicates that this measure will go some way to solve a problem in education. towards attracting male teachers into teach- ing. That is what the measure is all about. I must confess that I am opposed to the The member for Port Adelaide in the other sorts of mandating and dragooning formulas place, Mr Sawford, the Deputy Chair of the and the introduction of gender quotas to fill House of Representatives Standing Commit- positions in any organisation. But knowing tee on Education, which inquired into the what I know about the Labor Party preselec- education of boys, was reported in the Syd- tion processes and the corrupt nature of the ney Morning Herald of 20 March 2003. The way the Labor Party’s internal processes observation by the journalist in that paper work, I can understand why there is a need to was: have a mandate for 30 per cent. You have to protect women in the circumstances of the Rod Sawford, deputy chair of the inquiry, ac- knowledges the male-only scholarships would Labor Party. This internal corruption in have been preferable. numbers, and what we are seeing unfolding in Western Australia with respect to vote So Mr Sawford acknowledges that male-only rorting, certainly means that you have a scholarships would have been preferable. problem getting decent people, particularly The article goes on to quote Mr Sawford: women, into the Labor Party. I can see that “We thought the discrimination laws would be a there is a strong argument for mandating a 30 problem. That’s why we said 50 per cent. But 50 per cent quota. per cent of males is far better than the numbers we are seeing now.” The fact is that we have a problem here. So Mr Sawford acknowledges that this We have a problem in primary schools that measure has merit. Those are two Labor the Labor Party acknowledge. It is utterly Party people who acknowledge that there is irrational and unreasonable for them, in the some merit underlying this legislation. face of the way they conduct their own af- fairs—the way they go about putting women The fact is that what we have from the into the Labor Party—for them to hypocriti- opposition here is a complete ideological cally now say that they are not going to sup- adherence to political correctness. What we port this move. This is a matter of political see in the Labor Party is a significant dose of dogma. This is a matter of them being hos- hypocrisy. When I look at what the Labor tage to their own ideology. Ms Roxon and Party does in its preselections, for instance, I Mr Sawford have told the Labor Party that note that there is a requirement—indeed a this measure is acceptable. Labor know this guarantee, as I understand it—that one-third measure is acceptable. They know that this of all preselections will go to women. It is measure is right and will go some way to mandated. It is an objective in the Labor achieving a positive outcome with respect to Party regardless of merit. So, on the one the mentoring and the education of boys and
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23097 to arresting the gender imbalance that is now measure as delivering an improved outcome present in our primary schools throughout in primary schools. Australia. Let us have a further look at the report of In other words, what you have is a politi- the Senate Legal and Constitutional Legisla- cally correct bigotry on the part of the oppo- tion Committee. It stated: sition in this place. So much for the sham The report— and the facade of Mr Latham’s platitudes in referring to the earlier report of the House of support of the education of boys. When it Representatives Standing Committee on Em- comes to political correctness the Labor ployment, Education and Training Boys: get- Party will always revert to type and will go ting it right— to ideology. Regardless of the merit, the positives or the likelihood of a successful also noted that once employed, teachers do not keep pace with salary progression ... outcome of a measure, if political correctness dictates then, notwithstanding their own It continues: practices, they will reject the measure. The Submissions commonly argued that amending the report of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Act to offer scholarships for males will not rem- Legislation Committee says that, in address- edy any of these issues. ing an application by the Catholic Education The Senate committee report quotes Pam Office, HREOC found: Smith from the Independent Education Un- ... there was insufficient evidence to support a ion of Australia: finding that the gender imbalance in the primary The issue of male teacher numbers ... can be school teaching profession is caused by matters, remedied much more significantly and longer factors or circumstances that might be remedied term by industrial and other promotional means, by the CEO’s proposed scholarship scheme ... than a small number of scholarships and watering So the opposition has founded their opposi- down important legislation. tion to this measure on HREOC’s finding She went on to say: that there is ‘insufficient evidence’. I have ... we are aware that the impact of unfounded not heard of there ever being a scholarship allegations [against teachers] can have a devastat- scheme such as this being instituted in Aus- ing effect, people can leave the profession ... that tralia before. Of course there is going to be is more marked in the early childhood and pri- insufficient evidence. This is a cop-out by mary sector. the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Pam Smith has not undertaken any real ac- Commission inquiring into the authorisation tive study of what has been happening in of the application by the Catholic Education primary schools with respect to numbers. Office. Insufficient evidence? There must There is a clear aversion to looking at the have been some evidence for it to be insuffi- statistics and the figures. Dr Peter West in cient. Where is the threshold? This is simply evidence to the Senate committee said a political correctness and reverse bigotry in number of very positive things with respect terms of gender bias in evidence for all to to what might happen if there were some see. This measure should have been given scholarships to encourage men into the edu- support. This measure would have gone cation system, particularly into primary some way, by the Human Rights and Equal schools. He is quoted on page 16 of the re- Opportunity Commission’s own use of the port as saying: word ‘insufficient’. The inference clearly is that there are some positives that support this
CHAMBER 23098 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Boys’ difficulties are entangled with two related teachers into primary schools. Given the La- issues: better fathering … and the lack of males in bor Party’s own internal workings and its teaching. quotas for the enforcement of the rights of He is the Head of the Research Group on women, I would have thought this meas- Men and Families at the University of West- ure—if only to avoid hypocrisy—would ern Sydney. This is a collision of so-called have received support. (Time expired) experts. Dr West went on to say: Senator KIRK (South Australia) (5.42 ... it is not so much role models that seems critical p.m.)—I rise to speak on the Sex Discrimina- here, but males modelling for boys the way in tion Amendment (Teaching Profession) Bill which they can become educated men ... it is im- 2004, and I hope I will be able to address portant for boys ... to see ... models of thoughtful Senator Johnston’s suggestion that there is a men who read and enjoy reading. lack of arguments to oppose this piece of Here is the evidence. Here is the suggestion legislation. The bill proposes a new exemp- that there is potential for a positive outcome, tion to the Sex Discrimination Act. It inserts but Labor—notwithstanding all of their own a new section that provides that it is not dis- internal practices—say, ‘We’re not going to criminatory for a person to offer scholarships do that.’ It really is quite a sorry, sad situa- to persons of a particular gender in respect of tion when a political party is so wedded to its participation in a teaching course ‘if the warped, biased ideology that it cannot enter- scholarships are offered in order to redress a tain a lateral thought or support a bona fide, gender imbalance in teaching’. realistic attempt to address a serious problem The major premise behind this legislation in education. Senator Mackay mentioned is that there is in fact a gender imbalance in mentoring and role modelling at home by teaching, particularly in the primary school fathers. The precise point is that a lot of these teaching profession. The premise is that this kids do not have fathers at home. That is the has an adverse social or educational effect on issue. A lot of kids do not have a male role young boys. I think it is fair to say that the model throughout infancy and primary jury is still out on this question. I do not school. The sorry, sad fact is that there are a think anyone—whether it is the government, very large number of fatherless families in the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity this country today. By not having male role Commission or any other body—can claim models and male teachers, particularly in that there is sufficient evidence to support primary schools, the problem is exacerbated. this premise. However, we will assume just In closing, I want to say that it is really for the purposes of this debate that there is quite surprising that a simple, legitimate, some value or substantive equality in gender bona fide attempt to encourage men back balance of teaching staff in schools. into the teaching profession has been op- The bill was referred to the Senate Legal posed by the Labor Party for the most ille- and Constitutional Legislation Committee gitimate of reasons. There is no substance to for inquiry, and the committee has now ta- any of the arguments I have heard in this bled its report. I am a participating member place today. All they have said is: ‘We think of that committee, and I attended the hear- this is just not the way to go. There needs to ings held a few weeks ago in Sydney. In the be more money. There need to be other majority report government senators, whilst things done in education.’ Even the educa- wary of the bill, recommended that the legis- tion union does not have any suggestion or lation provisionally proceed and that it be solution for how to introduce more male
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23099 subject to a review in two years time against fered to males and 12 were to be offered to its stated aim—that is, to improve the gender females. So this had the effect that there balance of teachers in schools. would be a guaranteed number of males and Labor senators submitted a dissenting re- a guaranteed number of females receiving port to this inquiry. It was Labor’s view that scholarships. In other words, this would be the bill should not proceed. Essentially, the consistent with the equality principle that reasons—and I will detail our reasons more underscores the Sex Discrimination Act. fully in a moment—were that we believed The Catholic Education Office were that this bill is inadequate to achieve its granted their exemption on the basis of their stated aims and is dangerous in its conse- revised application, and everything was fine. quences, whether they are unintended or oth- It seems that the CEO were happy with the erwise. As many senators would be aware, outcome as they had in place their scholar- despite the rhetoric of the Minister for Edu- ships to encourage a guaranteed number of cation, Science and Training, this bill was 12 men and 12 women into the teaching pro- not conceived by the government as an inte- fession. It is interesting to note that the gral part of a comprehensive policy to ensure Catholic Education Office have advised that better schooling outcomes for boys. In fact, they did not request any changes to the Sex the government only conceived the idea of Discrimination Act, certainly not in the form this piece of legislation following the appli- of this bill. Furthermore, they did not take up cation that was made by the Catholic Educa- the invitation that was extended to them to tion Office for an exemption from the Sex appear before our committee that inquired Discrimination Act, to introduce male-only into the provisions of the legislation, which I scholarships. As we know, the first applica- referred to a moment ago. tion that was made by the Catholic Education Given this background, I think it is very Office was rejected by the Human Rights difficult to understand the government’s re- and Equal Opportunity Commission. When fusal to withdraw this bill, following the this occurred, the government saw this as a events that I have just outlined to you. Its great opportunity to take up the avenue refusal to do so has to be seen as nothing available to it to try to undermine the Sex other than a cynical move to undermine the Discrimination Act. Essentially, that is what integrity of the Sex Discrimination Act; that this legislation is all about. is what this is about. It now lacked a reason Since the bill has been drafted and intro- for the bill, so a few weeks ago we heard the duced into the parliament, a number of minister for education announce 500 male- events have occurred which the government only scholarships. The only purpose for mak- did not perhaps foresee. Of course, we know ing this announcement, it seems, was to ac- that there were subsequent negotiations be- tually give some underlying basis to this leg- tween HREOC and the Catholic Education islation, which otherwise would be com- Office and that these resulted in a revised pletely unnecessary. application being submitted to HREOC by Even if it is evident that there is a gender the Catholic Education Office for an exemp- imbalance amongst primary school teach- tion. It was an application for an exemption ers—and I think there is evidence to suggest in this case so as to grant 24 scholarships, that is the case—I think we need to look be- each for five years, to university students yond the teaching profession and look at applying to become primary school teach- other professions across society. We all know ers—12 of these scholarships were to be of-
CHAMBER 23100 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 that there are gender imbalances in the pro- primary schools, the number and percentage fessions. Of course, traditionally women of male primary school teachers in the non- have been underrepresented in male- government sector has actually increased. dominated professions such as science and The committee did hear some evidence that engineering, and that continues to the present non-government sector schools actively re- day. Women traditionally have been under- cruit male teachers, offering them attractive represented in high-paying professions. remuneration packages which form a signifi- Let us look then at the teaching profes- cant component of what they are able to offer sion. We see that there are a higher number them in order to attract them into the profes- of females than males employed as primary sion. This really ties in with what I was say- school teachers in Australia. But what do we ing a moment ago: if there is attractive re- know about the teaching profession? What muneration and other benefits available to do we know of it as an occupation? We know men, then quite often they will take up teach- that it is relatively poorly paid, it is of low ing as a profession because they will be re- social status in the community and there is warded. very little opportunity for career progression. Furthermore, while the number of males One might say it is no wonder that women completing primary school teacher education dominate in this field, because after all this is courses has decreased, the number and per- the type of field in which women tend to centage of males enrolling in primary school dominate. Child care is another profession teacher education courses have actually in- that comes to mind in which women are dis- creased. Therefore it seems that one of the proportionately represented. It is a kind of great problems in this area is the retention of chicken and the egg situation—whether the male teaching students. This issue would low pay leads to there being more women or need to be addressed even more pressingly, I there being more women leads to there being would suggest, if this bill were to pass, if low pay. So it is not a surprise to us to see only to ensure that the government scholar- that there is a significantly higher number of ships, payable as they are on the successful females than males employed as primary completion of first-year teaching, would not school teachers. be a complete waste of taxpayers’ money. There is no question that teaching does Despite the small percentage of male pri- suffer from its long association as being mary school teachers, the majority of pri- women’s work. Young men are not attracted mary school principals are male. If you look to the teaching profession because they know at the statistical prevalence of males in lead- that they can earn more money elsewhere in ership positions within the teaching profes- another profession and they know that their sion, you will see that any male-female dis- work will be regarded as of greater value if crimination in the profession is not function- they work in one of the traditional fields of ing in a manner that is contrary to the inter- law, engineering, science or anything other ests of male teachers. In fact, on the contrary, than teaching. Taking a closer look at the male teachers are becoming school princi- statistics of where men are in teaching and pals. They are moving up the ladder, they are teaching courses and what happens to them being rewarded, they are being promoted reinforces what I am saying here today. and, of course, attracting greater salary re- While there has been a significant decline in wards as a consequence. It seems that male the number and percentage of male primary teachers either leave the profession mid- school teachers employed in government career because of poor remuneration or are
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23101 promoted out of the schoolroom to become mining the Sex Discrimination Act than it principals or assistant principals, as I de- has to do with ensuring better educational scribed. This is a more general problem outcomes for boys. This bill, were it to pass across the teaching profession. It seems that and were it to amend the Sex Discrimination good teaching is often rewarded by a career Act as intended, could have the effect of cur- progression, and this often means that good tailing the special measures provisions al- teachers become administrators. So those ready in the act. men and women who are the best teachers In the time available I want to address the are promoted up the scale to the level of special measures provisions. Section 7D of- principal and then of course they are no fers an existing and more flexible solution to longer able to be good teachers. Good teach- the question of granting scholarships pro- ers’ skills in the classroom, therefore, be- posed in the bill. The government could, in come more and more underutilised as their fact, apply for a special exemption under careers progress. As the Sex Discrimination section 7D to introduce its scholarships Commissioner, Pru Goward, pointed out: package. Ironically, the passage of this bill Programs to stop this exodus and programs to might endanger that facility. Passing this encourage the promotion of a representative legislation could effectively limit the special number of women teachers into senior adminis- measures that could be allowed under the trative positions in schools would both result in Sex Discrimination Act to redress gender more male teachers in the classroom. imbalance in teaching. A court could regard When HREOC assessed the Catholic Educa- the specific provision in the bill dealing with tion Office’s initial application for an exemp- scholarships as excluding that subject from tion, they found that there was insufficient the generalised provisions of section 7D. The evidence to support a finding that the gender overall effect could be that the flexible as- imbalance in the primary school teaching pects of section 7D, as they now exist, could profession is caused by matters, factors or be denied to other proposals for granting circumstances that might be remedied by the scholarships. This poses potential problems proposed scholarship scheme. Male teachers for future initiatives in this area and under- are not discriminated against in their entry mines the overall integrity of the Sex Dis- into training in this profession. HREOC crimination Act. found that the scholarship plan was not de- Of course, the government has not made signed to redress specific practices said to any application for an exemption under this exclude disadvantage, restrict or result in an clause because it requires that a person does adverse effect upon male primary teachers, not discriminate against another person un- nor would the absence of the scheme ‘leave der sections 5, 6 and 7 of the act by taking uncorrected the effects of past discrimination special authorised measures. HREOC would against men’. Rather, the plan was designed be unlikely to grant a special exemption for to redress the gender imbalance in the teach- this scheme for the reason that it further dis- ing profession, which had arisen for many criminates against women. Male only schol- other reasons, many of which I have referred arships that serve to remedy no barrier are an to today. Despite such findings by HREOC, affront to the many well-qualified, excellent the government has maintained that there is a women who enter teaching degrees at uni- need for an amendment to the Sex Discrimi- versity and they serve only to further devalue nation Act. As I said, that is a cynical posi- their contribution as teachers. It is a slap in tion that has much more to do with under- the face for all those women who go into
CHAMBER 23102 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 teaching—it is what they want to do because the field of education and in particular to ensure, they enjoy working with young children, on a basis of equality of men and women: despite the poor pay and low opportunities … … … for career advancement—and struggle to pay (d ) The same opportunities to benefit from off their HECS debts for degrees which, in scholarships and other study grants; the end, will barely push them above average The committee members, from all parties, weekly earnings. Two thousand dollars, I who inquired into this bill were concerned at might suggest, is a very small inducement the impact that piecemeal amendments, such into a profession that in fact suffers from its as the one proposed here today, would have long association with women and the label of on the integrity and objectives of the act and women’s work. at the impact on Australia’s compliance with There are a couple of other legal issues its obligations under CEDAW. May I also that I want to raise in the time remaining. mention that there could well be some sig- The Law Institute of Victoria made a sub- nificant issues in terms of the constitutional mission to the inquiry. They said that they validity of this bill and whether it can be thought the bill may well be contrary to the seen as being within section 51(xxix) of the stated objects in section 3 of the Sex Dis- Constitution, which was the original head of crimination Act, which include the follow- power relied upon in order to enact the Sex ing: to give effect to certain provisions of the Discrimination Act. As I outlined before, I Convention on the Elimination of All Forms think the manner in which this amendment is of Discrimination Against Women, CEDAW; contrary to the stated aims and objectives of to eliminate, so far as is possible, discrimina- the bill, which reflect CEDAW, could well tion against persons on the ground of sex, in bring it under a constitutional question mark. areas such as work and education; and to In summary, this bill is an ill-conceived promote recognition and acceptance within remedy to a problem that requires a much the community of the principle of equality of more comprehensive response. It is a sim- men and women. You can see, when I read plistic and ineffective approach to a very those stated objectives from the Sex Dis- complex policy issue. We cannot even be crimination Act just why it is that this certain that the problem it intends to remedy amendment is so contrary to the spirit of the is a problem, as there is insufficient evidence Sex Discrimination Act. to support the proposition that more men in The Law Institute of Victoria in its sub- schools will lead to better educational out- mission argued that allowing educational comes for boys. It also potentially contra- institutions to offer such scholarships will venes Australia’s international obligations to mean that women will be disadvantaged by prevent discrimination against women. This reduced access to teaching scholarships. This legislation is not only a round peg for a will not allow men and women to benefit square hole but a round peg of the wrong equally from scholarships and may mean that width and length, and I urge my fellow sena- the bill contravenes Australia’s obligations tors to oppose this legislation. under article 10 of the Convention on the Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (6.02 Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination p.m.)—The Sex Discrimination Amendment Against Women, which states: (Teaching Profession) Bill 2004 is an impor- States Parties shall take all appropriate measures tant piece of legislation. It makes a small to eliminate discrimination against women in change to the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 order to ensure to them equal rights with men in
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23103 to allow education authorities to offer schol- school teachers is a man and only 18 per cent arships to men who wish to train to become of people training to be primary teachers are primary school teachers. The bill should be male. For early childhood teaching—that is, passed. If it is, it will enable the government the critical entry point for children—less to provide 500 scholarships valued at $2,000 than four per cent of trainees are men. each next year, to be paid at the end of a suc- According to the Labor Party, boosting the cessful first year of an undergraduate teach- number of university places is the way to ing program. An additional 500 male teach- ensure more men choose teaching as a ca- ers in primary schools will potentially touch reer. That is the view put forward by the La- the lives of around 21,500 primary school bor Party shadow minister in the other place. boys over five years of age. Other critics of the plan to produce more At the outset, I want to say that it is a male teachers for Australia’s primary class- shame that the Labor Party has chosen to rooms say that teacher salaries, job and ca- make a partisan issue of the scholarship plan reer satisfaction and social status detract proposed by the Minister for Education, Sci- from teaching as a choice for young men. It ence and Training. It is not only an issue of is certainly true that there is no easy solution attracting more men into primary teaching. It to the problem. This bill to allow for scholar- is also an issue of how—in fact, of ships is one approach towards an overall so- whether—Australia can meet the educational lution. That is all that it is and that is all that and social challenges it currently faces, and we on this side of the chamber claim that it it is in that context that senators and the is. The purpose of the bill is to amend the community at large should approach this Sex Discrimination Act to provide a perma- debate. nent exemption for the provision of gender There is a lengthy list of grim statistics specific scholarships which can be offered to that demonstrates how urgent it is to reverse students in a teaching course. These scholar- the decline in boys’ academic performance. ships must be designed to address gender All of the evidence points to the need to imbalance in teaching. commence that remedial work at the primary The bill is largely a response to a decision school level. Last year in this place I spoke by the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity on the special needs of boys in our education Commission, which refused to grant an ex- system. I am far from alone in taking the emption from the act to the Catholic Educa- view that the need to reverse the present tion Office of the Archdiocese of Sydney. A situation in which boys are failing to perform subsequent decision by the commission is urgent and absolutely vital. I don’t know granted an exemption from the act to the anyone who suggests that schools are, or Sydney Catholic Education Office on the indeed should be, surrogate fathers. But it is basis that it would provide 12 teaching beyond dispute that boys, and for that matter scholarships for men and women respec- girls, need male role models in their early tively. As a general principle, rules of equity lives, and just as much in the classroom as in are sensible and should be applied. There are the home. The need is acute for boys. They no grounds for discriminating against anyone in particular need a balanced male presence on the basis of gender. That is the position of in their primary school years, so that they the government. It is the position of every- respond to educational stimulus and get the one in mainstream politics and, I believe, of best possible start on the ladder of learning. the vast majority of people in the Australian In Australia today, only one in five primary community.
CHAMBER 23104 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
The Nelson scholarships arguably breach scholarships is another matter—an argument the Sex Discrimination Act, which, while for another time perhaps, or one we might be providing for some pre-existing permanent best avoiding altogether. But whatever the exemptions, appears not to provide the same cause of the decline of male teacher numbers for specific purpose male-only teaching in primary education, whether it is salary scholarships. That is the basis on which this expectations and social status, or the margin- bill has been presented to the parliament. The alisation of maleness as a perceived teaching legislative fact is that the supply of the pro- attribute in Australia and other Western so- posed scholarships would, arguably, be a cieties—and these are all factors that have breach of the act, in particular of section been alluded to by other speakers on both 22(1). That subsection makes it illegal to sides of the Senate—the result of the col- discriminate on the grounds of gender in the lapse in numbers is plainly apparent and provision of goods and services, and services must be reversed. It bears repeating that include ‘the provision of grants’. Section children—girls and boys—benefit from an 21(2) may also be violated by the proposed appropriate and proportionate gender repre- scheme because it deals with educational sentation in the education system. authorities and specifies that they should not There is no criticism of female teachers discriminate on the grounds of gender. implied by that statement—by anybody, par- In recognition of the fact that it may be ticularly those on this side—or implicit in the appropriate to allow discrimination when the bill. It is not a question of standards, of class- purpose behind it is to foster equality and room teaching or anything else; it is one of counteract the historical effects of previous achieving effective balance and better out- discrimination, the Sex Discrimination Act comes for young Australians and, ultimately, includes a permanent exemption for meas- for Australian society. It is a balance to ures which are taken to redress such situa- which it is critical that our classrooms return. tions. These special measures allow dis- The government has moved quickly to draft crimination when it is designed to achieve and introduce this legislation. That is a substantive equality—discrimination that measure of the urgency of the issue. The bill would otherwise violate the non- was introduced into the House of Represen- discriminatory principles of the act. But the tatives on 10 March and debated in the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Com- House in the week beginning 22 March. It mission took the view that the Nelson schol- should be given swift passage through this arships were not designed to redress specific chamber in the interests of boys’ education. ‘practices said to exclude, disadvantage, re- Outside the home, teachers play the largest strict or result in an adverse effect’ on male role in shaping children’s lives. The modest teachers. It also decided that the absence of change to the Sex Discrimination Act pro- the scheme would not ‘leave uncorrected the posed in this bill is one step—a very positive effects of past discrimination against men’. and proactive step—towards a goal the The commission decided that the plan was community would clearly support. It is a tar- designed to redress the gender imbalance in geted response to a specific problem, a the teaching profession which had arisen for measure the education minister has chosen in other reasons. order to meet a particular need. The point is moot. The issue of whether No-one would suggest that all we need to the Sex Discrimination Act should be taken right the imbalance that is negatively affect- to apply in any form to the provision of ing boys’ education is 500 teacher training
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23105 scholarships. Nobody is suggesting that. The ideological focus of opposition to the bill scholarships and the minister’s action in or- shows those who have a zealous commit- ganising them are catalysts towards a far ment to the Sex Discrimination Act have broader outcome that deserves to come to more power in the Labor Party than those fruition, unmolested by the Sex Discrimina- concerned about male role models for boys. tion Act or the Human Rights and Equal Op- As a Senator for Queensland I find it particu- portunity Commission. Of course the quality larly galling that one union in my state con- of the teacher is more important than the cluded that the scholarships were ‘an exer- gender of the teacher. That was the very cise in superficiality and pure tokenism’. For point made by the parliamentary committee my money that criticism could more aptly be of inquiry in its report Boys: getting it right. directed at the Labor Party for its position on In the overall context of the proposed schol- this legislation and particularly at its leader arships and the inconsistency of that measure who, yet again, on this issue has decided to in terms of the Sex Discrimination Act, it is hunt with the hounds after having run with very hard to see why the Labor Party should the hares. object, or indeed, why anyone should. The Leader of the Opposition who, before Labor leader, Mark Latham, has led de- he assumed that position, sought to highlight bate on his side of politics on this issue of the crisis of masculinity and the lack of male boys’ education. The teacher unions are not role models and mentoring and who contin- happy, but they should be. Only their ideol- ued with this view after he got the job— ogy stands in the way of commonsense there. among other things in addressing the Na- Labor’s official position, as enunciated by tional Press Club on the issue—now says the Jenny Macklin, deputy leader and education Nelson scholarships are ‘just a drop in the spokesman, is that the scholarships are a bad ocean’. As the Prime Minister put it: idea and that more university places are a It is one thing to talk the talk. It is one thing to better idea. That particular suggestion has run around the country for three months and pro- been echoed in this chamber during this de- fess your concern for the fatherless boys of Aus- bate, yet this contrasts oddly with the action tralia. But it is another thing, when you have got of the West Australian Labor state govern- an opportunity to put your hand up and do some- ment, which has acted firmly to urgently lift thing for them, to not do so ... On this occasion, male teacher numbers. It clearly sees it for the Leader of the Opposition has failed his own rhetoric. what it is—that is, a matter of practicality, not of politics, particularly for the Western Labor still has an opportunity to do the right Australian branch of the Labor Party. The thing. It can change its mind and vote for this fact is that opposition to the bill is primarily bill and be part of the solution. It should do ideological, at least by Labor people in this so for the sake of Australian boys and Aus- place and in the other place. tralia’s future. Minister Nelson was right on the money Senator CROSSIN (Northern Territory) when he characterised it as political correct- (6.13 p.m.)—I rise this afternoon to speak on ness and said it would do Australia no good the Sex Discrimination Amendment (Teach- if we spend the next decade hand-wringing ing Profession) Bill 2004 that is currently and clinging to misplaced ideological purity before this chamber. I would like to begin by and produce a generation of young men who providing some historical context to this is- are disengaged from society. Prime Minister sue and to highlight the inadequacies of this John Howard was right when he said that the piece of legislation—legislation that is no
CHAMBER 23106 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 longer even relevant, as the situation has crimination Commissioner and HREOC on a been adequately resolved. This year sees the number of issues, so it is no wonder the 20th anniversary of the Sex Discrimination Prime Minister wants to get rid of the Sex Act. In 1984 the Hawke Labor federal gov- Discrimination Commissioner altogether. ernment created the Sex Discrimination Act No-one denies that the low number of to give effect to Australia’s obligations under male teachers is problematic. However, a the Convention on the Elimination of All well thought out long-term strategy is what is Forms of Discrimination against Women. It needed, not a short-term political fix full of a is no secret, the disregard and contempt this personal agenda that is seriously outdated government has towards not only the Sex and misguided. What the government also Discrimination Commission but also the fails to see is this needs more than a quick Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Com- fix solution, and this is in no way a recent mission. This government intends to do away phenomenon or the result of a bizarre trend with HREOC as we know it and replace it by men. Essentially the lack of male teachers with a body that has limited independence in our schools is a hangover from the period and capacity. when teaching in Australia was largely re- As our deputy leader in the House of Rep- garded as an acceptable profession for fe- resentatives, Jenny Macklin, mentioned, this males, who could undertake it until they bill seeks to wind back Australia’s antidis- were married or until they had children. In crimination laws, laws which are there to accordance with the Harvester judgment, protect every single Australian. The Prime men were entitled to be paid more than Minister has been antagonistic towards anti- women because they were regarded as the discrimination laws right from the start. Dur- sole breadwinner and because it was ex- ing the third reading debate on the Sex Dis- pected that women would quit work once crimination Bill in 1983, he said: they were married and had children; they did … I am a profound sceptic of the value to our not require a wage adequate to support them- society of the Human Rights Commission. selves or any dependent children, for exam- He went on to say: ple. It was assumed that when women were at work, they did not have any dependents, … I certainly have major reservations about the concept of affirmative action legislation and I despite their actual circumstances. Women certainly do not regard support of this legislation were seen as being able to participate in the as being indicative of support for that. work force as teachers as part of the service He has obviously changed his mind about sector because it was regarded as an exten- that; he now proposes to change the Sex Dis- sion of their caring role in the community. crimination Act to permit affirmative ac- When I began my teaching career in 1978, tion—but for men to become teachers in this it was the start of the change of the teaching instance. Mr Howard’s disregard for the in- profession and the role it had played previ- formed opinion of the Sex Discrimination ously. I remember being part of the forma- Commissioner, that to exempt Catholic tion of what is now known as the Independ- schools from the act to enable them to award ent Education Union of Australia. We male only scholarships is not desirable, is worked and struggled for teachers to gain staggering, although not uncommon from their rights to maternity leave—of course this Prime Minister. We have seen him on a prior to the major test case on maternity number of occasions disregard the Sex Dis- leave won by Anna Stewart. In the late sev- enties it was certainly the case that there was
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23107 an expectation that the only thing women this, it would make teaching an achievable ought to do when they left school was to be- and attractive profession. However, the gov- come a nurse or a teacher. I went through ernment has gone out of its way to make teachers college with some outstanding male teaching very unattractive to potential teach- teachers who have become idols in the sports ers by increasing the cost of attending uni- world—Gary Foulds and Justin and Simon versity, by undervaluing the role of the pro- Madden, all of whom played football for fession, by limiting the amount of resources Essendon. Their reason for being in teaching given to public schools—which is where the was that it was a profession that had some majority of teachers are, as opposed to pri- respect and dignity in the community. They vate schools. In fact, approximately 2,700 were not in the profession because they felt men were turned away from teaching in 2004 that there was a chronic shortage of male because this government refused to fund the role models in the community and they were extra university places that were required. serving their duty; they were there because it Think of the ludicrous argument we have was a valued profession. Unfortunately, as heard from this government: on the one hand time has gone on, the value of the role that it wants to amend the Sex Discrimination Act teachers play in the community, and the so that men only can access certain scholar- community’s expectations of them, has se- ships that are being presented by the Catholic verely diminished. Education Office and, on the other hand, it All of these factors contributed to the cur- turned away 2,700 men from universities rent situation where it is acceptable that in who were seeking to undertake a teaching this day and age teachers are paid a minimal degree. The hypocrisy just does not make income but still require a university degree. sense to me. Since 1997 the Howard gov- Surely the government should look at the ernment has turned away approximately entire education system—wages that teach- 15,000 men from teaching—thousands of ers are paid, the conditions under which they men who could be in front of children in are employed, the relative respect teachers classrooms this very day. have in the community, the expectation that It must also be noted that men have al- the community has of teachers—in relation ways occupied executive positions in schools to the lack of male teachers. These days and have been promoted at a faster rate than teaching is not seen as an attractive profes- their female counterparts—not unlike in the sion by some adolescent males who are seek- wider work force. If we think of the hierar- ing to go on to university. Things have gone chy of the education sector as a triangle, we wrong, and some of the major issues include know that the majority of women are class- the lack of resources for education, the huge room teachers, section teachers within a demands, the expectations placed on teachers school or assistant principals. The number of and their administrative workload. The ex- female teachers who go on to be principals, pectation of the community and its view of general managers in education departments, the role that teachers play has not been as- deputy secretaries or secretaries is much sisted at all by the attitude of this govern- smaller than the number of men who hold ment, particularly in relation to teachers in those positions. The triangle is, in a sense, the public sector system. out of kilter. The number of women who A few male-only scholarships will go no enter the work force as teachers and end up way to increasing the number of male teach- in executive positions is relatively minor ers. If the government were serious about
CHAMBER 23108 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 compared to the number of men who hold be made to the Sex Discrimination Act. If the similar senior positions. government were serious about creating a It is not surprising, though, that this gov- balanced work force in schools, the Prime ernment does not see that as a serious issue. Minister would provide a serious policy pro- At the same time as they are advocating that posal. In March, Pru Goward, the Sex Dis- there ought to be an exemption in the Sex crimination Commissioner, stated: Discrimination Act so that men can access There are any number of alternative programs scholarships, they are not advocating that that are not discriminatory and which do not need there ought to be professional development a legislative amendment, such as paying teachers programs or executive management pro- more. grams so that more women can access pro- That seems a very simple answer to me. Men motion within the system and become prin- and teenagers in this community would be cipals or even secretaries of departments. In attracted to university and to the teaching fact, until the 1950s it was legislated in Vic- profession if, at the end of the day, they toria that women could only be principals of knew they would be paid the same as IT gu- one-teacher schools, schools for the handi- rus who come out of university with some capped or all-girls schools. Married women sort of computer knowledge or expertise. could not even apply for a promotion or join People who are qualified as accountants, superannuation schemes. They also suffered economists or lawyers start on a salary far in job insecurity as no leave was granted for excess of what a first-year-out teacher would confinement—that is, no paid maternity expect. leave was provided to women in the teaching The argument put forward by the govern- sector until the eighties, which is less than 30 ment relates to the lack of male role models years ago. for young boys. There are a number of flaws In highlighting these facts, I am not sug- in the argument to change the Sex Discrimi- gesting that this still occurs. However, the nation Act on that basis. This afternoon I current situation must be viewed within this heard a number of people from the govern- historical context. The government must ac- ment talk in this debate about how men teach cept that this problem requires more than a better than women, how they behave differ- short-term, quick political fix. This also illus- ently in front of a classroom and how they trates the importance of the Sex Discrimina- have different ways of interacting with chil- tion Act and the role of the commission in dren—from my experience, no more than ensuring that there is equal opportunity and anyone else. Each and every person is an that workplaces are free of discrimination on individual who behaves and reacts differ- the basis of sex. This piece of legislation is ently in front of a group of 30 kids on a day- no longer required. It never was required; it to-day basis. That is the beauty of teaching; was never needed. I trained in the Catholic that is the nature of it. To have your child, system, along with the role models that I year after year, sit in front of a different have just talked about, and male-only schol- teacher is how they come across different arships were not needed or required back personalities, whether teachers are male or then and to this very day are still not re- female. Different techniques are used, quired. whether teachers are male or female. I have The immediate situation has been resolved taught with some wonderful teachers who adequately and change is no longer needed to were females. I have taught with some duds who were males. I have also taught with
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23109 some great men. One teacher in particular The government has failed to provide whom I remember quite favourably is Bob solid evidence which shows how this bill and Bekkers. He did a famous unit on the Titanic specifically how these changes to the Sex every year. It was a unit that he had devel- Discrimination Act would, if passed, increase oped, and it was something to be admired the number of men wanting to embark on a and commended. It is not because they are teaching career. The government has also men that they teach better. It is not because failed to explain adequately why this hastily they are men that they become better role introduced piece of legislation is still being models for kids in schools. It is their profes- pursued, following the successful resolution sional nature. It is the individuality of that of the issue between the Sydney Catholic teacher. It is the skills that that teacher has Education Office and the Human Rights and that makes them the teacher they are; it is not Equal Opportunity Commission. Contrary to because of the gender of that teacher. recent media reports, the Sydney Catholic The government never mentions in a posi- Education Office did not request a change to tive way the needs of girls or the role of the Sex Discrimination Act. They did not ask women in this society. Sure it is good for for this change. They did not want this boys to have good male role models to look change. They did not believe there was a to, but what about girls? Surely there is a need for this change. And they have achieved need for girls to have good male role models what they wanted. They stated: as well. Male teachers will not rectify the A far bigger challenge is the need to address the lack of male role models available to young underlying reasons why more men are not at- boys or girls. Increasing the number of male tracted to teaching. These include the status of the teachers does not remove the responsibility profession, salaries and career opportunities. of fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers and, The bottom line is that the fundamental issue might I add, football players or politicians to of improving educational outcomes for boys be good role models for young people. The will not be addressed by the changes pro- absence of male role models at home will not posed in this legislation. and cannot be rectified simply by having a There is no evidence that males are not male teacher in front of your child between entering the primary teaching profession be- the hours of nine and three every day. It is cause of sex discrimination or financial dis- not going to happen. Not only has the gov- advantage. They are not entering the profes- ernment approached this in an ad hoc, short- sion because there are not enough university term manner but also it has managed to trivi- places. They are not entering the profession alise the important contribution that female because there is not a high prestige status teachers make to the profession and the need attached to being a teacher in this day and for quality teachers in our schools as well as age in this country. The government’s own adequate resources. It is the professional de- report on boys’ educational outcomes enti- velopment that teachers undertake—male or tled Boys: getting it right did not propose female. It is the skills training. It is building changes to the Sex Discrimination Act as a on their knowledge. It is the mentoring that tool for addressing the substantive issues. occurs. It is the availability of good and first- This measure in isolation will not deliver on class resources that will determine whether the stated objectives, yet the government or not your child’s education is at the stan- refuses to move on the 23 other recommen- dard of quality that is expected by parents. dations that were contained in the House of Representatives report.
CHAMBER 23110 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
The existing act provides sufficient flexi- Senator LEES (South Australia) (6.32 bility for worthwhile initiatives. The gov- p.m.)—I would like to start by putting a cou- ernment has failed to provide one good rea- ple of facts on the table in this debate on the son to support making changes to the Sex Sex Discrimination Amendment (Teaching Discrimination Act. The Labor Party will not Profession) Bill 2004. Firstly, far too few support this proposal. We believe, and I per- men choose teaching as a career. A lot drop sonally believe, that there is an ingrained out during their studies and a lot do not con- problem within the teaching profession that tinue after experiencing teaching. Secondly, this government has refused to acknowl- the results of the basic skills tests show that, edge—in fact, the policies and the actions of on average, boys are not doing as well as this government have entrenched the prob- girls. They are not picking up the basic skills lem—and that is the lack of resources. By as quickly as girls do. that I mean there is a need for updated There is another set of facts that the gov- equipment. Teachers should have laptops. ernment does not seem to want to acknowl- Computers should be available to all kids in edge. In the Attorney-General’s second read- the classroom. You will never provide qual- ing speech, he said: ity education when a child goes home at 3 Research shows that teaching is not an attractive o’clock in the afternoon, switches on their career option for men for reasons including con- computer, accesses the Internet and explores cerns about salary and the perception of a risk of all the wonderful web sites but, when they allegations of abusing children in schools. come back to the classroom at 9 o’clock the HREOC agrees with the minister and says next day, they are bored out of their brain, that men are dropping out of teaching, not with just a pen, paper, chalk and a white- choosing teaching or not wanting to be board in front of them. It will never work. teachers for a raft of reasons but not because Whether there is a male or a female teacher of any discrimination. They are choosing— standing in front of them, the quality of their they are voting with their feet—not to teach; education will not improve until kids get hence, affirmative action programs are inap- modern, up-to-date technology with which propriate. This bill arises because male-only they can learn. scholarships would breach the Sex Discrimi- So it is about resources in schools. It is nation Act, and the exemptions that are in the also about providing teachers with the status act do not cover scholarships. Lastly, it is that is afforded to people who have eminence women, not men, who are marginalised once in our society, such as lawyers and doctors. we get people into the work force. This is about the people who develop your Let us look at how this debate started. It child’s mind on a constant basis from 9 started because the Catholic Education Of- o’clock until 3 o’clock, six hours a day, 100 fice applied for an exemption so it could days a year. These people need their profes- award 12 male-only scholarships. That was sion to be enhanced, valued and well re- sorted out. There was no need for the gov- sourced. Anybody who enters the teaching ernment to pursue this issue. It was sorted profession needs to gain the recognition that out by the Catholic Education Office coming theirs is a valued profession. Then people, back and offering 12 female scholarships— regardless of whether they are male or fe- in other words, 24 in all—and the CEO was male, would be queuing to get into that pro- then granted an exemption. If the govern- fession. ment want to persist down this route—and I
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23111 argue strongly that they should not—they We do need thousands more places for should go down the route that has already teachers in our universities, and we need been suggested by a number of other speak- them very quickly. We are looking at the av- ers and look at what is it about teaching that erage age of teachers being at or close to is turning people away. If the government 50—indeed, in one state it is over 50—right really want to go down the route of HREOC across Australia now. We have to move be- and equal opportunity, they need to look at fore we have a major problem. Let us look at areas where there is a shortage of women in some of the situations that teachers find teaching. One of the obvious places is in sen- themselves in in my home state. These are ior maths and science. There is a shortage of issues that have been reported to me just this female teachers of physics, chemistry, biol- year, in the last few months. We have in ogy and maths in those senior years and also South Australia students of more than one a substantial shortage of women in promo- year level sharing a laboratory because there tional positions—principals and deputy prin- simply is not enough space in the school. cipals—across our schools, both private and There are several schools where there are public. simply not enough classrooms. There are If the government must pursue this, to several schools that have run out of TRT balance out the boys why not provide 500 days—temporary relieving teacher support— scholarships for girls who want to teach sen- for the year. What they do from now I do not ior maths and science? I would like to en- know. If they have sporting fixtures and ar- courage this government to look at 1,000 rangements, or perhaps camps—although scholarships, for men and women, because there are many schools in South Australia we are running out of teachers. Some very that cannot afford to give students the oppor- bright students in schools I used to work in tunity of those sorts of experiences—where wandered off late in year 10 or early in year teachers are needed to accompany students, I 11 because they either did not have the en- do not know what they will do. Indeed, one couragement and support from their families school recently reported to me that now there to go on or they could not afford to stay on. is rationing on the photocopy paper. In many cases they did not even see univer- Let us just look at the sorts of stresses that sity as an option. Teaching was not some- all of that puts on not just the students but thing they would look at without some en- also the teachers. Some of them simply do couragement. not cope. Apart from going out on stress Let us look at what is discouraging men leave and having time off, some simply de- from taking up teaching. I will start with cide it is all too hard and find another profes- some of the stresses that teachers experience sion where they feel valued and where they and the message that sends to the students, are not under those stresses. But one of the particularly the senior students. The shortage key issues for the teachers I speak to is that of teachers is now becoming more and more many schools cannot afford the resources to evident. It is worse in some states than oth- work more effectively with students that are ers. It is worse in some subject areas, such as playing up—students who are making mis- maths and science, than it is in others. Gen- chief in the classroom, students who are dis- erally in rural and remote areas it is much ruptive and students who in many cases have worse than in our main capital cities and in a mental illness. This does not just impact on larger centres. the teacher, obviously; it is a major burden on the rest of the class. Most schools now,
CHAMBER 23112 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 particularly state schools in South Australia, or writing? Some kids simply do not pick up do not have the resources to cope adequately some of these skills until they are eight or with these students. When I was teaching, nine. I have tested kids and found that they when there was not the requirement to teach are not on the scale at eight, by nine they are as many lessons as there is now for South reading at the level of a five- or six-year-old, Australian teachers, there was often an opt- and by 10 they are up at the level of a 15- out option, extra school counsellors and year-old. Some kids simply learn at different ways in which these students could be sup- stages. Let us help every student that is not ported. But today the reduction in resources coping. and the increasing workloads of teachers Afterwards, as we look at students who mean that the classroom teacher and the have been through school and have gradu- homeroom teacher have to cope with these ated from university, we see that men cer- students with very little or no support. Other tainly dominate the work force, particularly options—outside-of-school options and re- in those professions where a lot of money lated options—that would help these at-risk and prestige are attached. We see in Australia students, such as Operation Flinders, are also that only 8.4 per cent of senior executive struggling for resources. positions are held by women. Just two of The point I wish to stress here is that, if Australia’s top 200 companies have a woman the minister is serious about attracting more as their CEO. More Australian women are men and more boys into teaching, let us get working part time now than at any time in more women in as well and more teachers in the past and more than in any other OECD general by increasing the standard of equip- country. In many of these cases this is not by ment and facilities across all our schools. Let choice. Rather, it is for a raft of reasons, in- us get a better method of funding our schools cluding lack of quality long-term day care. that are really under stress and that do not Because they are working fewer hours, have enough classrooms. Forget about the women have less money with which to sup- school ovals that have to be watered and the port themselves and their families and less pools that some schools are able to provide; money to put aside for their retirement. Av- let us look at those schools that do not have erage weekly ‘all employees total earnings’ classrooms and adequate resources just for in November 2003 were: females, $578.70; basic teaching. males, $894.60. Starting salaries after I would like to look at one other issue: graduation—and these are 2003 figures— what happens after school. I have to ac- were $38,000 for men and $36,300 for knowledge—and we all acknowledge here— women. Women have been graduating in that boys lag behind at some stages in some equal numbers from law for the last 25 years, of those tests in primary and secondary yet fewer than 10 per cent of partners in legal schools but they soon catch up after univer- firms are women. So, for a raft of reasons, I sity, particularly in those areas where it simply cannot support this legislation. counts, where money, status and career op- I make a final plea to this government and portunities are afforded them. I am not trying also to state and territory governments to to trivialise the real problems that some stu- work together to make sure that those stu- dents experience, but why are we not just dents who at the moment are simply not get- helping all students who are struggling at ting a fair go in our high schools and those whatever stage and in whatever particular students who are often leaving well before curriculum area—it may be maths, reading they should can get some real opportunities
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23113 to continue on and reach their full potential. strategies and programs to address the issues Those students desperately need more schol- and also the perceptions of the community arships. I am not suggesting for a moment when talking about having more men in that another 500 scholarships are not needed teaching positions. It is something I can see a for teachers; indeed, I would argue that the need for but it is not so essential that women government should make 1,000 scholarships cannot deal with many of the issues con- and make sure that they are not going to take fronting us in our schools. We would all like existing HECS places—and, by the way, to see more men in the teaching profession; HECS did not go up in the recent legislation we would all like to see more women—and because of the shortage of teachers. HECS young women—turning to this career. places should be increased by at least 1,000 When I was at school—let me say, many in the coming year with 1,000 scholarships. years ago; I try to forget those years—the My only hesitation in not supporting this bill teaching profession was seen as a profession. is that I do not want to lose scholarships for The government has let education fall by teaching, because we are going to hit a crisis only providing large amounts of money to in a few years. the rich schools—the private schools—while I say to the government: please go away leaving the public schools lacking, and this and rethink this. Come back with 1,000 new needs to be addressed. Until we bring back scholarships for teaching, regardless of the professionalism and give respect to those whether they are for men or women—or at men and women in our schools, the respect least 500 each—and come back with a pack- that they deserve for educating our young age that you have worked through with state people to go on to further their careers, we and territory governments that will really put are not going to attract anyone. resources into the schools that desperately Many young people are not choosing need them, not into those schools where you teaching as a career because they see it as a have looked at some shonky assessment of dead-end job. When I was young the dead- what their parents’ wealth is rather than what end jobs were always in factories. Today the wealth of the school is and the capacity young people see that no-one cares about the school has to meet the needs of its stu- education, so why should they put the effort dents. in? You go to the schools—I regularly do Senator BUCKLAND (South Australia) because I still have a son at high school— (6.45 p.m.)—I was not going to say too and the teachers are dedicated but they see much about the Sex Discrimination Amend- that no-one really cares. The government ment (Teaching Profession) Bill 2004 except does not care. It does not provide the ser- that I am quite concerned that the govern- vices. It does not provide sufficient resources ment wants to bring in changes that may well to the poorer schools in our community, and not fit the needs of our country. There has this is where we are lacking. I am pleased been an inquiry into this matter, and I was that the Labor senators on the committee saw particularly pleased—not because I am on the need to take this a little further. The bill this side of the chamber—that my colleagues in my view is ineffective. It does not address who were on that committee were unable to the measures required to correct the gender agree with the government on this and put in imbalance. We have got to do that. a dissenting report. We believe there is a Senators need to understand that not all of need to implement something that provides us had the good fortune to go to a rich for the development of a larger range of
CHAMBER 23114 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 school. Some of us had to struggle. Our par- funding for government and non- ents had to struggle to get us where we were. government schools across Australia; Many young people dropped out of school (c) the effectiveness of accountability young, and that is a crying shame. I can re- arrangements for state, territory and call not very long ago in my previous occu- Federal governments’ funding of govern- pation having a 43-year-old man come to me. ment and non-government schools; and I had worked with this man for many years (d) the application of the framework of and watched him read the newspaper every principles for the funding of schools that day. I saw him pick up books and read them. has been endorsed by state and territory He came to me to get some assistance with a governments through the Ministerial Council on Education, Employment, work injury, and I asked him to fill out a Training and Youth Affairs. form. The man could not write more than his own name. He could not read. He had to ADJOURNMENT bluff his way through and look as if he was The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT doing something. Unless we address this (Senator McLucas)—Order! There being no imbalance in schools, put the care back into consideration of government documents, I teaching and make teachers feel appreciated, propose the question: we are going to have more people who can- That the Senate do now adjourn. not read, write or address the issues of the Western Australia: Labor Government world. In the short time I have, I have to say Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia) that this bill lacks the substance required to (6.52 p.m.)—Recently I spoke on the chal- address the needs of our nation today when it lenges facing Western Australians in regional comes to education. areas because of the reluctance of the Gallop Debate interrupted. government to recognise they were elected to NOTICES govern for all Western Australians, not just Presentation people living in Perth. The Perth-centric fo- cus of this state government has rendered Senator Allison to move on the next day regional Western Australians the state’s ‘for- of sitting: gotten people’. In Western Australia our That the following matter be referred to the farmers, miners, forestry workers and or- Employment, Workplace Relations and Education chardists are among the most hardworking References Committee for inquiry and report by 11 August 2004: and productive people in the nation. To be treated as contemptuously as they are being The principles of the Government’s schools treated by their state government in Perth is funding package and the effect of these principles on: an outrage and a travesty in the minds of all fair and decent Western Australians. (a) the capacity of all schools to meet current and future school needs and to achieve the Recent legislative changes to environ- Adelaide Declaration (1999) on National mental laws by the Western Australian Min- Goals for Schooling in the Twenty-First ister for the Environment and Heritage, Ms Century; Edwards, were specifically made to appease (b) the role and responsibility of the Federal the Greens and to secure the prized electoral Government, in partnership with state and preferences that the Labor Party so desper- territory governments, for quality, equity, ately need. This legislative direction is caus- efficiency and effectiveness in public ing chaos and wreaking havoc in country
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23115
Western Australia. It has got to such a critical ... fire control officers fear that the fines will also stage that farmers are being forced to break apply to emergency actions taken to stop fires, the current laws just to go about their daily such as back-burning without the regulated minis- business on their private land. Recently we terial approval or sanction by Conservation and had the ludicrous situation in Western Aus- Land Management staff. tralia where an 82-year-old farmer was The article goes on: charged by CALM officers for driving on a “I’ve had a gutful,” former fire control officer CALM reserve. This farmer is a great West- and Jurien farmer Rodney Ward said. ern Australian, a great Australian and a great He said it was bureaucracy gone mad and was community servant in his district. He has turning everyone into policemen. devoted his retirement years to lobbying … … … governments, on both sides of the political ... CALM sent people lacking knowledge of the fence, to come up with workable solutions to country or bushfire experience who obstructed the Western Australia’s No. 1 environmental work of volunteer locals who knew what they crisis—namely, dryland salinity. This gen- were doing. tleman had been at a reserve investigating an Rodney Ward went on to say: increase in water levels and salinity prob- “If there’s a fire in the national park, they can lems in the area and, for his trouble, was put the— booked by CALM officers for a trespass-like expletive deleted— offence, carrying a criminal penalty. out themselves ... All these blokes do is sit in their Labor has passed laws in Perth removing air-conditioned vehicles and watch.” the rights of farmers and land-holders— freehold land-holders—to remove even one Further, PGA spokesperson Craig Under- tree, dead or alive, from their properties wood commented on this out of control bu- without permission from some bureaucrat reaucratic nightmare: residing often hundreds of kilometres away ... after five meetings, Department of Environ- from the land that is being farmed. This is ment officers had shown no understanding and clearly an untenable situation for landown- little effort to understand the practical limitations of the new regulations on normal farm practices. ers. They are being forced to apply for clear- ing permits to remove even one plant. The regulations were more like a radical greens’ wishlist than a practical approach to envi- Farm leaders are warning the state gov- ronmental protection. ernment that the new set of environmental He said farmers wanting to clear more than laws that has been introduced is simply an one metre from fences adjoining crown land or accident waiting to happen in terms of the firebreaks more than 2.5m wide would have to increased bushfire risk in many regional pay a $50 application fee for an exemption when towns and centres, particularly those adja- the regulations came into force. cent to CALM or conservation reserves These new regulations and the associated throughout rural Western Australia. Under draconian legislation are having an enormous the provisions of these new environmental impact on farmers and are precluding them laws, there are fines of up to $500,000 for from going about their everyday routine ac- individuals and $1 million for companies for tivities. In essence, the legislation is impos- actions which farmers see as normal day-to- ing public ownership and control over pri- day practices, such as clearing fence lines vate freehold property, with farmers having and installing effective firebreaks. The West to apply for, and pay for, permits to go about Australian on 5 February 2004 reported:
CHAMBER 23116 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 their normal, routine daily activities. Farmers the loss of thousands and thousands of hec- and pastoralists throughout the state will tares of productive agricultural land that they simply be unable to comply with proposed are no longer able to develop. new limits involving firebreaks, fence lines, In Western Australia Premier Gallop has access roads, regrowth, firewood, shade and failed country people with his lack of poli- just the everyday run-of-the-mill mainte- cies and starvation of regional Western Aus- nance activities that are part and parcel of tralia of resources. Farmers and miners are farm life. not even guaranteed a reliable electricity In the Farm Weekly on 5 February this supply in Western Australia. The reckless year, PGA spokesperson Craig Underwood expenditure that is taking place in and further said: around Perth in projects like the flawed Some of these impositions, especially those re- Mandurah to Perth railway line is taking lating to fire control, will be life threatening. The precedence over the $500 million at least that Environmental Protection Act has been amended, is necessary to upgrade the power grid infra- and these regulations are being formulated to stop structure throughout inland Western Austra- all land clearing in WA. But the bureaucrats are lia. It was an election commitment by the extending this ban to include twig snapping regu- previous Court government but something lations that will make CALM’s recent attempted that Labor in power has simply failed to prosecutions against farmers Alan Yandle and commit to. Laurie Carmody entirely tame by comparison. Both of the gentlemen mentioned in that arti- There are a number of other measures that cle are recognised in their districts as out- I want to mention briefly which effectively standing servants of their communities. It is amount to an assault upon people in country a very sorry, sad situation when the law is as Western Australia. The planning minister has ridiculous as that which the state government reduced the truckload capacity of transport has enacted in Perth for people living in companies, increasing the number of heavy country Western Australia. bulk haulage vehicles on all country roads by 30 per cent. Recently, country school bus Breaches of these regulations can result in contractors were bludgeoned into accepting massive six-figure fines, as I have set out, substantially less beneficial contracts, with with consequent property confiscation in the the minister pointing a gun at their heads enforcement of them. These crazy laws are saying her terms were not negotiable and undermining farmers’ efforts and providing contractors had to sign the contracts on a significant disincentive to farmers to make take it or leave it basis. The same contractors investment in medium- and long-term con- also had to sign deeds of release and waivers servation practices and capital works. I note acknowledging that they had no rights at law that all of these measures have been imple- arising from undue influence or any other mented without proper undertaking as to any actionable conduct by the minister or the compensation to the freehold landowners. department. Country road funding in Western But what is most galling is witnessing Australia by the state government has virtu- huge sums of money being spent on a con- ally halted and is now almost the sole prov- cept in Perth called Bushplan and on other ince of the federal and local governments. In city initiatives—on the one hand, clearing for reintroducing the concept of Roads to Re- housing in wetlands and bush areas but, on covery the current budget has gone a long the other hand, offering only a paltry $1 mil- way to repairing and to seeking to catch up lion to compensate private landowners for on the huge gap that has developed in the
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23117 provision of adequate, safe and proper roads professor in the Ministry of Justice in Viet- throughout Western Australia. Country peo- nam. ple are desperately sick and tired of the Professor Tay was a part-time commis- maladministration they are being afforded by sioner with the Australian Law Reform their government in Perth. Commission, a member of the Australian Tay, Professor Alice Erh-Soon, AM Science and Technology Council, President Senator PAYNE (New South Wales) of the International Association for Philoso- (7.02 p.m.)—I rise this evening to pay tribute phy of Law and Social Philosophy and to a great Australian, Alice Erh-Soon Tay, President of the National Office of Overseas AM, who passed away on 26 April 2004, Skills Recognition. Her skill and ability as a aged 70. Professor Tay was President of the teacher have influenced countless students Australian Human Rights and Equal Oppor- and her reputation as a challenging professor tunity Commission for five years from April merely improved her stature among the legal 1998 and will be remembered for her work fraternity. In fact, many lawyers in the com- as an exceptionally talented legal academic, munity today gained much from her intellect author and editor. She was fluent in Chinese, when they were her students. I know that to Russian and English. She held a distin- have been the observation of the Attorney- guished tenure as Director of the Centre for General, the Hon. Phillip Ruddock, in his Asian and Pacific Law at the University of remarks upon her passing. Sydney and was the author, editor, co-author Professor Tay lectured in many countries or co-editor of around 20 books and over 100 throughout her distinguished career and comprehensive articles. Her career in legal acted as a visiting fellow in the United academia was most impressive and earned States, Canada, the PRC, Italy, Japan and her an Order of Australia in 1986 for her Germany. Her work at the Centre for Asian ‘contribution to teaching and research in and Pacific Law is noteworthy for the ener- law’. getic commitment she showed to organising Alice was awarded her PhD from the Aus- and conducting intensive legal training tralian National University in 1964. As Sena- courses for Vietnam and the People’s Repub- tor Mason, a graduate from the ANU Law lic of China both at home in Australia and in School, advised me today, she was said to be those countries, and sponsored by Australian one of the first doctoral candidates from the and international aid bodies. ANU Law School. She was recognised as a Most importantly I want to note tonight a barrister-at-law at Lincoln’s Inn in the United number of her activities in the human rights Kingdom, at the High Court of Singapore, at area. She worked tirelessly as a defender of the Supreme Court of the ACT and at the human rights both here in Australia and Supreme Court of New South Wales. I un- abroad within our region—always construc- derstand her school education was at the Raf- tively, always with integrity. She was a fles Girls School in Singapore. She was the staunch defender of the rule of law and saw Challis Professor of Jurisprudence at the in it the possibilities to advance her universal University of Sydney, a fellow of the Austra- cause. Her humanity never wavered in the lian Academy of Social Services, Academi- face of some of the most testing cases sur- cian Titulaire of the International Academy rounding the protection of human rights in of Comparative Law in Paris and a visiting Australia during her tenure at the commis- sion. Her cases included the legal interven-
CHAMBER 23118 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 tions concerning the MV Tampa, issues of Council. I am very pleased that her work in legal representation of asylum seekers in promoting human rights in China has been detention and the clarification of the rights of recognised with such an enduring honour. children. Yet Professor Tay’s deep conviction For my own part, I enjoyed the odd Alice that we are all entitled to live our lives with Tay jurisprudence lecture at the University of the basic freedoms and responsibilities to Sydney myself, although not in fact as a stu- maintain dignity enabled her most particu- dent at the University of Sydney, as I was larly to cut right through the politics of a studying law at the University of New South situation and to work as an effective pro- Wales. My then boyfriend was attending ju- moter of human rights in this country. risprudence lectures at the University of It is fair to say that she did not regard the Sydney and—the things we do for love!—I Universal Declaration on Human Rights as a went with him. The Alice Tay lectures were ‘noble aspiration’ but as an essential legal well reputed amongst the students at the uni- principle. And she did not expect these prin- versity and the Eugene Kamenka and Alice ciples to be adhered to unless they were Tay jurisprudence text was much thumbed backed by essential education on the role and through. importance of human rights in our society. I know that, during her period as President Long-term progress towards the most effec- of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity tive observance of human rights is only pos- Commission and my time as Chair of the sible when people are aware of the standards Senate Legal and Constitutional Legislation by which they can be held. Professor Tay Committee, the relationship between the was highly regarded both in Australia and commission and the committee has been a throughout the world for her effort in the very valuable one. I was always very pleased promotion of human rights and the rule of to have the opportunity to work with Alice law and has made an enduring contribution on those important human rights matters. I with her life’s work. Indeed, observations by also remember participating on behalf of the the current President of the Human Rights parliament with Mr Ripoll, a member in the and Equal Opportunity Commission, Justice other place, in the Australia-China human John von Doussa, that Professor Tay contin- rights dialogue—one of the regular dialogues ued work on her many interests following which was held in Canberra about two years her departure from the commission a year ago. Alice, as President of HREOC, had ago despite her health should not be surpris- flown in from points far—as ever—to par- ing at all to those of us who knew Alice. ticipate in the dialogue, to bring her own She was committed to the promotion of perspective of the time she had spent training human rights with Australia’s regional in human rights and in legal studies in the neighbours, particularly the People’s Repub- People’s Republic of China and to bring her lic of China, where she worked determinedly witty and amusing observations on the prac- through the Australia-China human rights tice of Falun Gong and the approach of the dialogue; Indonesia, where she gave support government of the People’s Republic of for the human rights commission, Komnas China to that. Ill, still travelling and still Ham; and through the Asia-Pacific Forum of working, she was making an extraordinary National Human Rights Institutions. It was in contribution even that short time ago. recognition of this life’s work that the first I know that Professor Tay as a person, as Alice Tay Human Rights Award was pre- an academic and as an advocate of the ob- sented last year through the Australia-China
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23119 servation of the most fundamental human five; those with two children, with one aged rights is an individual, in fact a great woman, under five and one aged between five and who will be very sorely missed in the com- 12; and those with two children, both aged munity in Australia and most particularly at between five and 12. The modelling is done the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity for a single income family, a family with a Commission. It was quite clear to me in the 50-50 income split, a family with a 67-33 latter stages of Alice’s involvement with the income split and a family with an 80-20 in- commission that the people surrounding her, come split. There is even a little table for the people with whom she worked, were not individuals who have not yet done their pa- just her friends and not just her colleagues triotic duty and had children. The benefits but in many cases were like her family. I outlined on that table are a little sparse, espe- know that her passing is sorely felt at the cially for those on lower incomes. Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Com- The tables are misleading in the extreme. mission. For a start, the family assistance is presented We as Australians, and any of us who are in both per annum and per week formats, but interested in the observation of and the sup- the government’s benefit will not be avail- port of human rights, the rights and freedoms able on a weekly basis and the $600 lump that we as Australians all too often take for sum will be available only at the end of the granted—and anyone who has been inter- year. For the one-third of families who regu- ested in the discussions of recent days about larly underestimate their income, the benefit how human rights should be observed and will be a lot less than $600 a child after the about how those who support the rule of law overpayments are repaid. and who fight for freedom and liberty should But what really upsets me is the presenta- go about observing those human rights—will tion of the superannuation tax changes. On miss Alice Tay and recognise that we owe every table the government superannuation her a great debt of gratitude for her life’s co-contribution is counted as a tax benefit work. I want to offer her family and her and added into the total per week benefit friends my personal condolences and if I under the package. The government’s tables may, where it is appropriate, the condolences of cameos do include a little note down the of my parliamentary colleagues. bottom that the benefit is the ‘difference be- Budget 2004-05 tween maximum contribution from Govern- Senator CHERRY (Queensland) (7.10 ment under existing and new scheme’. Ignor- p.m.)—I want to talk about dishonesty in the ing the grammatical errors, that is a lot dif- federal budget. The government is supposed ferent from saying that the co-contribution is to be abiding by a charter of budget honesty. payable only if a person is making voluntary Yet its presentation of its tax, family pay- contributions. There are three big problems ments and superannuation changes last night with putting the contribution into these was dishonest in the extreme and in my view cameo tables. First, it is not payable on a has misled the Australian people. I refer in weekly basis but it is payable only at the end particular to the More help for families docu- of the year and it is payable only to your su- ment released last night, which includes 15 perannuation fund, not to your family. Sec- cameos of how the package will benefit vari- ond, it is payable only if the individual ous households. The three family types mod- makes a voluntary contribution to super. On elled are those with one child aged under the government’s own costings, only around 10 per cent of low-income earners are ex-
CHAMBER 23120 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 pected to make such a contribution and be earners surcharge cut and the full tax cuts. eligible for the payment. So why include it in But this is not mentioned in the cameos. the tables for everyone? Third, the govern- The treatment of superannuation and the ment forgets that the co-contribution is pay- misleading presentation of an annual family able to low-income spouses of high-income benefit as a weekly benefit make the cameos earners. That means that its dual income misleading, as I have said. It is spin at the cameos are misleading. worst level. No government should aim to The 50-50 income split cameo acknowl- mislead the public so much, yet this govern- edges that a co-contribution can be payable ment intends spending up to $23 million do- on a family income of up to $110,000. But ing so using these massively misleading the 67-33 income split cameo assumes that cameos. So how did the media report these only the dominant income earner will claim cameos and this document presented as offi- the co-contribution, because it runs out at a cial fact by government? I appreciate that private income of $85,000. But what if a covering the budget is hard work for journal- couple decides to pay the co-contribution ists working to tight timetables, but when the into the lower-earning partner’s super, which government produces such a piece of mis- is what many are expected to do? On a 67-33 leading drivel and masquerades it as ‘factual split, the co-contribution is payable to a fam- information’ we rely on our journalists to ily earning up to $174,000. The total benefit, sort the story out. Nor does it help when the even on the government’s dodgy figuring, is Treasurer keeps saying that the ‘average underrated by $500 a year for a family on an family’ will be $50 a week better off, when income of $100,000. For a couple with an the actual family assistance does not meet 80-20 income spilt, the co-contribution $50 a week for any family with two children would be payable on an income of up to or fewer unless they access the high-income $290,000. Yet, the cameo table has it peter- earners tax cuts—in which case, of course, ing out at $70,000. Of course, the super co- they cease to be ‘average’. contribution is only going to be picked up by The Australian and the Australian Finan- a minority of low-income earners—10 per cial Review get full marks for their cameos. cent according to Treasury and 20 to 30 per They completely ignored the government’s cent according to the modelling of the super- cameos in its document and ignored the su- annuation industry. perannuation changes and presented the fam- The high-income earners surcharge cut is ily assistance as an annual figure, not a payable to 100 per cent of high-income earn- weekly figure. The Melbourne Age also ers, yet it does not rate a mention in the cam- chose to ignore the superannuation changes eos. For someone on $100,000 with a nine in its benefit tables. The Adelaide Advertiser per cent salary contribution to superannua- did quite well: its tables had a column for the tion, the high-income earners surcharge pro- total benefit ‘with voluntary super’ and vides a $225 per annum tax cut in 2004-05, ‘without voluntary super’. Other newspapers which will rise to a $675 per annum tax cut published the government’s tables in full. by 2006-07. The tax cut rises with income, The Daily Telegraph at least included an ex- yet this tax cut is missing from the cameos. planation of the changes, pointing out that to Again, the public is being misled. A family be eligible for the superannuation co- on $130,000 with an 80-20 split would be contribution taxpayers must make one-third simultaneously eligible for the full superan- the size of that on offer from the govern- nuation co-contribution, the full high-income ment. The Courier-Mail replicated the gov-
CHAMBER Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23121 ernment’s footnote on the co-contribution in DOCUMENTS small print, as did the Herald Sun. I regret to Tabling note that the Courier-Mail also had a very The following government documents large typo on the front page of today’s paper, were tabled: which I am sure they will move to correct very quickly as it implies a massive tax cut Treaties—Bilateral— for low-income earners that does not actually Text, together with national interest exist. The worst performance, however, be- analysis and annexures— longs to the West Australian. It published a Exchange of Letters constituting an table with 11 cameos under the title ‘Helping Agreement between the Government Hand’. It replicated the final figure from the of Australia and the Government of government tables with no breakdown and New Zealand to amend Article 3 of the Australia New Zealand Closer without any mention that it includes a super- Economic Relations Trade Agree- annuation co-contribution. The table is ment (ANZCERTA) of 28 March highly misleading in that it replicates two of 1983. the three government footnotes but omits the Treaty between the Government of third one on super. In addition, the table pub- Australia and the Government of the lishes all of this on a weekly benefit basis, French Republic on cooperation in not acknowledging that the two payments on the maritime areas adjacent to the family and super are annual end of year French Southern and Antarctic payments. Territories (TAAF), Heard Island and The Australian people deserve much bet- the McDonald Islands (Canberra, 24 November 2003). ter than the misleading cameos presented by the government in its family cameos in this Text, together with national interest analysis, regulation impact statement document published last night. Australians and annexures—Australia-Thailand deserve to be told the truth about the tax and Free Trade Agreement, and associated family package presented by the Treasurer exchanges of letters. yesterday. They need to know that only 20 United Nations—Optional Protocol to the per cent of Australians will get a tax cut— International Covenant on Civil and those earning above $52,000 a year. They Political Rights—Communications— need to know that the tiny percentage earn- No. 1154/2003—Outline. ing over $100,000 a year get two tax cuts—a No. 1243/2004—Outline. superannuation tax cut as well as an income tax cut—and that if they have a low-income Tabling spouse they get a third tax cut by being eligi- The following documents were tabled by ble for the superannuation co-contribution the Clerk: and are possibly eligible for an increase in Census and Statistics Act—Australian family tax payment part B. I hope that our Bureau of Statistics—Statement No. 2 of media outlets do their job and produce their 2004. own cameos—cameos that the government Corporations Act—Accounting Standard has left out—which will show just how AASB 1047—Disclosing the Impacts of skewed this package is towards high-income Adopting Australian Equivalents to earners and just how unfair it is for the ma- International Financial Reporting jority of Australians. Standards. Senate adjourned at 7.18 p.m.
CHAMBER 23122 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The following answers to questions were circulated:
Sustainable Regions Program (Question No. 1747) Senator McLucas asked the Minister representing the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, upon notice, on 8 August 2003: With reference to the Sustainable Regions Programme’s funding to the Atherton Tablelands region: (1) What funds were allocated to the program. (2) What are the outcomes sought by the Commonwealth Government for this funding program. (3) How does the level of funding for the Atherton Tablelands compare with that allocated for other regions. (4) When was the funding for the Atherton Tablelands allocated. (5) Over what timeframe have the funds been allocated. (6) What processes have been put in place to determine that strategic holistic regional objectives are identified and met. (7) Will all of the $18 million allocated which is reported to be allocated to the Atherton Tablelands, be provided; if not: (a) how much will be allocated; and (b) what amounts have been allocated over what years. (8) If less than $18 million is provided, how will this be communicated to the people of the Atherton Tablelands. (9) Who determined the management and administrative arrangements for the Atherton Tablelands Sustainable Regions Programme. (10) What arrangements are in place to determine the allocation of funds to particular projects. (11) What proportion of the funds expended by the Commonwealth have been used for administration. (12) Who determined the management and administrative arrangements for the Atherton Tablelands Sustainable Regions Advisory Committee. (13) How was the membership of this committee determined and by whom. (14) Who are the members of the committee; and on what basis were they appointed. (15) To whom does the committee report; (b) how frequently; and (c) in what format. (16) Can copies be provided of any committee reports that have been received detailing the funding allocation process or project approvals. (17) Can copies be provided of minutes of all committee meetings held to date. (18) Are committee members required to declare any interests they may have in any applications being considered; if so: (a) how many occasions has this occurred; (b) for which projects; and (c) by whom. (19) In relation to funding issues: (a) what funding criteria were determined; (b) by whom; and (c) how were these criteria applied in determining projects to be funded. (20) Can a list be provided of applications for funding received by the committee, including: (a) identification of the purpose for which funding was sought; (b) for what amount; (c) which were successful; (d) which have been rejected and why; and (e) which are still awaiting a decision.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23123
(21) How many full-time permanent, full-time casual, part-time permanent, part-time casual, and construction jobs will be created by each project approved for funding. (22) Is a contribution from the applicant required for the application to be approved. (23) What due diligence processes were in place to assess the financial viability of applicants. (24) What proportion of successful applicants to date have been private businesses or individuals. (25) How many cooperative funding applications from a number of associations or authorities have been received. (26) What accountability mechanisms are in place to ensure project objectives are achieved. (27) Are successful applicants required to meet key performance indicators; if so: (a) what are these; and(b) how are projects benchmarked against them. (28) What impact or evaluation processes have been put in place to measure the success or failure of funded projects. (29) What evaluation processes have been put in place to measure the success or failure of the Sustainable Regions Programme in the Atherton Tablelands region. Senator Ian Campbell—The Minister for Transport and Regional Services has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The Atherton Tablelands region was allocated up to $18 million under the Sustainable Regions Programme. (2) At the national level, the Sustainable Regions Programme seeks to foster: • Regions to address priority issues they have themselves identified; • A planned, integrated approach to regions facing economic, social and environmental change; • Improved whole of government approach to regions by the Australian Government; • Cooperation and exchange of ideas between designated regions across Australia; • Improved understanding of the characteristics of each region; • Identification of future directions for each region; • Creation of employment in the regions; • Establishment of businesses; • Provision of key resourcing for the sustainable development of the regions; • Closer community interaction within regions; • Partnerships between the private sector and government for the sustainable development of each region; and • Development of leadership in regional communities. (3) Other Sustainable Regions were allocated funding of up to $12 million or up to $8 million. (4) The Minister for Transport and Regional Services announced funding for the Atherton Tablelands in September 2001. Funds are allocated to projects as the Minister considers recommendations made by the Atherton Tablelands Sustainable Region Advisory Committee (ATSRAC). (5) The Sustainable Regions Programme was announced in September 2001. The Programme is due to end in June 2006. (6) The Sustainable Regions Programme guidelines require that ‘regional priorities’ be developed and that these be used in assessing funding applications. ATSRAC identified priorities based on prior reports and community consultations and in the context of their local knowledge. In July 2002, ATSRAC released an Action Plan 2002-2005 and sought feedback from the community. In January
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23124 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
2003, ATSRAC released a Strategic Framework and Prospectus for Regional Development 2002- 2005 and subsequently ran community consultation forums seeking feedback on the prospectus. When funding agreements are prepared with grantees, the Department of Transport and Regional Services includes the ‘regional priorities’ to be addressed by the project in the contract (so that they can be quantified, measured and reported on). (7) The Atherton Tablelands Sustainable Region has been allocated up to $18m from the Sustainable Regions Programme. The amount that each of the Sustainable Regions will actually expend will not be known until each region nears the end of the Programme cycle. Allocations are not made on an annual basis. (8) See the answer to Question 7. (9) The Minister for Transport and Regional Services. (10) The following is a general approach to developing and assessing projects: • A public call for Expressions of Interest (EoI). The contact officer would be the region’s Executive Officer (EO); • The EO would discuss with proponents whether their project proposal fits the guidelines for the Sustainable Regions Programme; • If the Sustainable Region Advisory Committee (SRAC)and the Department of Transport and Regional Services agrees that an EoI has merit and meets the Programme guidelines, the applicant would be asked to submit a formal application; • The application would be assessed against the Programme criteria by the SRAC and the ‘regional priorities’ identified; • The Department of Transport and Regional Services would independently assess the application and provides advice and guidance to the Advisory Committee in their assessment; • The Advisory Committee would then make recommendations to the Minister for Transport and Regional Services. The Department of Transport and Regional Services would provide supplementary information to assist the Minister’s decision making, if necessary. (11) The allocation referred to in the answer to Question 1 refers to the amount available for project funding. None of the funds have been used for administration. (12) The Minister for Transport and Regional Services. (13) The Minister for Transport and Regional Services determines the membership of each Sustainable Region’s Advisory Committee. (14) Councillor Mick Borzi, Councillor Mary Lyle, Councillor Jim Chapman and Councillor Anne Portess were appointed in their capacity as community leaders. Mr Peter McDade and Professor Bob Beeton were appointed on the basis of their extensive experience in social and economic growth in regional Australia. Mr Tom Viera was appointed as an observer of the Advisory Committee in his capacity as Executive Officer of the Far North Queensland Area Consultative Committee. (15) The Advisory Committee reports to the Minister for Transport and Regional Services as required. The format of communication varies. (16) The funding allocation process is listed in the ATSRAC Action Plan 2002-2005 and the Atherton Tablelands Strategic Framework and Prospectus for Regional Development 2002-2005, which are available from the Sustainable Regions Executive Officer in the region, the Department of Transport and Regional Services and on the Internet at www.sustainableregions.gov.au. Project approvals are available on the Internet at www.sustainableregions.gov.au.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23125
(17) The Minister for Transport and Regional Services values the frank discussions that form the basis of the Advisory Committee’s advice to him and does not wish it to be constrained, as might occur if Committee members knew their deliberations would be made public. At the end of the day, the Minister for Transport and Regional Services is the decision-maker. (18) Yes. (a) Five, (b) and (c) In the interests of privacy, these projects and the committee members declaring an interest will not be made public. (19) (a) and (b) The general project criteria was determined by the Minister for Transport and Regional Services. ‘Regional priorities’ were developed by the Sustainable Region Advisory Committee as per the process described in the answer to Question 6. (c) The general assessment criteria and the ‘regional priorities’ are used by the Advisory Committee as it assesses each project. (20) Information of all approved projects in the Atherton Tablelands is publicly available on the Internet at www.sustainableregions.gov.au. This includes project descriptions, funding contributions by proponents and from other sources and, where appropriate, the number and types of jobs created. As outlined in the answer to Question 10, the Programme uses an Expression of Interest phase prior to inviting formal applications. For this reason, only a few project applications have not been successful through not meeting the Programme criteria to a sufficient degree or through not successfully completing the due diligence assessment. I do not propose to comment on project proposals that are still awaiting a decision. (21) See the answer to Question 20. (22) During the assessment of the project the Advisory Committee and the Department of Transport and Regional Services consider the extent of the proponent’s contribution to ensure the success of the project. (23) The Sustainable Regions Programme has a three-tiered due diligence framework for private sector applicants, dependent on the amount of money the applicant is seeking. Thresholds are indicative only. For projects requesting up to $50,000 a check of the applicant’s legal status is completed. For projects seeking between $50,000 and $500,000, an applicant’s financial history and corporate heath check is completed. For projects seeking over $500,000 a more detailed company and project viability assessment is completed where the Department of Transport and Regional Services considers it warranted. (24) 15 out of 25 projects approved for funding have been private businesses or individuals. (25) Three applications. (26) Funding agreements (contracts) tie the achievement of outputs and outcomes to payment of grant funding. Grant funding is generally distributed in several payments over a period of time to minimise the risk of non-performance. The Department of Transport and Regional Services is responsible for monitoring performance under these contracts. (27) and (28). Key performance indicators (outputs) are agreed to during contract negotiations between the applicant and the Department of Transport and Regional Services. As each project is different, outputs and outcomes are negotiated on a project-by-project basis. The Department of Transport and Regional Services is responsible for monitoring performance under these contracts. (29) The Sustainable Regions Programme (SRP) will be evaluated at three levels - project, programme and location to obtain the most-comprehensive information of the Programme’s performance. Fisheries: Roundtable (Question No. 1986) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and Conservation, upon notice, on 10 September 2003:
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23126 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(1) What specific outcomes beneficial to Australian fisheries management can be attributed to the Minister’s attendance at the fisheries roundtable organised by the Organisation for Economic Co- operation, held in Paris in June 2003. (2) Can an English-language communiqué of the roundtable be provided. (3) Which French Ministers did the Minister meet to discuss illegal fishing in the Southern Ocean around Australia’s Heard and McDonald Islands and France’s Kerguelen Island. (4) What new measures did the French Ministers propose to facilitate surveillance and apprehension of boats illegally fishing in Australian and French waters in the Southern Ocean. (5) What new measures did the Minister propose to the French Ministers. (6) When did the Minister depart Australia for the roundtable visit. (7) When did the Minister return to Australia. (8) Who accompanied the Minister on this trip. (9) Can the details of the Minister’s official itinerary be provided. (10) (a) What was the total cost of the Minister’s visit to Paris, including departmental officers and ministerial staff; and (b) which department or departments met these costs. Senator Ian Macdonald—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The OECD Roundtable brought together a number of Ministers, from a range of countries, and the heads of key non-government organisations, who share strong concerns about the effect of illegal, unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing on the marine environment and sustainability of fisheries. It provided an opportunity for all Ministers and organisational heads to establish personal relationships and discuss possible solutions to combat illegal fishing. It also gave me an opportunity to present Australia’s position on illegal fishing and an outline of where the Government considers the key problems lie, in addition to emphasising our commitment to combat IUU fishing. My participation ensured that Australia will continue to be recognised as a world leader in the fight against IUU fishing and that our views on strengthening relevant international law and the governance regimes of regional fisheries organisations will be themes for future international work on the issue. A Ministerial Task Force on IUU Fishing was proposed by Elliot Morley MP, the United Kingdom’s Minister for Environment and Agri-Environment at the OECD Roundtable. The Ministerial Task Force on IUU Fishing was formally launched on 1 December 2003. The Task Force will be led by Elliot Morley and will include Fisheries Ministers from Chile, Namibia, New Zealand and myself. The Task Force will operate for around 18 months and will develop a strategy to prevent and eliminate IUU fishing (with prioritised actions). The Task Force will work with non-government organisations and other countries to build support for the implementation of the plan. (2) No communiqué was issued by the meeting as the official invitations specifically stated it was to operate under Chatham House Rules and was primarily to inform and exchange ideas on the issue of IUU fishing. The Chairman’s summary of the meeting is available at: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/14/16798300.PDF (3) I met with Madame Brigitte Girardin, Minister de l’Outre-Mer (Minister for Overseas Territories) and Mr Dominique Bussereau, Secretary of State for Transport and the Sea, to discuss illegal fishing issues. (4) Cooperative surveillance activities were discussed in the context of the Treaty Between the Government of Australia and the Government of the French Republic on Cooperation in the Maritime Areas Adjacent to the French Southern and Antarctic Territories (TAAF), Heard Island
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23127
and the McDonald Islands (the French Treaty), recently signed by the Hon Alexander Downer MP, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Renaud Muselier, French Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. (5) Discussions ranged across a number of potential mutually beneficial measures aimed at combatting IUU fishing, including cooperative surveillance activities in the context of the French Treaty (recently signed by the Hon Alexander Downer MP, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Renaud Muselier, French Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs). (6) 2 June 2003. (7) Departed Paris on 6 June 2003 and arrived in Australia on 8 June 2003. (8) Mr Phil Connole (Chief of Staff) and Mr Daryl Quinlivan (Executive Manager, Fisheries and Forestry, Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry). (9) The official itinerary is as follows: MONDAY 2 JUNE 1500 Senator Macdonald and Party depart Brisbane
TUESDAY 3 JUNE 0640 Senator Macdonald and Party arrive at Paris Met by Australian Officials and transfer to Hotel
1400 Meeting with Pan European Forest Certification Council Chairman, Secretary-General and French National Secretary
1900 Dinner and programme briefing
WEDNESDAY 4 JUNE 1000 Meeting with Professor Guy Duhamel, Ichthyology Laboratory, National Museum of Natural History
1230 Meeting with the Rt Hon Simon Upton, Chair, OECD Round Table on Sustainable Development.
1300 Lunch hosted by Ambassador Forsyth, Australian Ambassador to the OECD with the Rt Hon Simon Upton and OECD representatives.
1530 Briefing with Ambassador William Fisher, Australian Ambassador to France
1630 Meeting with Madame Brigitte Girardin, Minister for Overseas Territories
THURSDAY 5 JUNE 1200 Lunch and Briefing with Ambassador William Fisher, Australian Ambassador to France
1600 Meeting with Mr Dominique Bussereau, Secretary of State for Transport and Sea
1930 Dinner hosted by the Rt Hon Simon Upton on the occasion of the Round Table meet- ing on Sustainable Development
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23128 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
FRIDAY 6 JUNE 0930 OECD Round Table on Sustainable Development
1400 OECD luncheon
2020 Senator Macdonald & party depart Paris
SUNDAY 8 JUNE 0445 Arrive Melbourne (10) (a) $61,540 (b) The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry met the costs for the departmental officer. The Department of Finance and Administration met the costs for the Minister and his Chief of Staff. Trade: Free Trade Agreement (Question No. 2208) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice, on 9 October 2003: With reference to the third round of the Australia-United States free trade agreement negotiations from 21 July to 25 July 2003: (1) Can the composite text capturing the view of both parties on nearly all chapters be provided. (2) In relation to the intellectual property chapter, can the composite text following the negotiations meeting in Washington from 29 September to 1 October 2003 be provided. (3) (a) When are the next consultations regarding the intellectual property aspects of the free trade negotiations between Australia and the United States; and (b) what, if any, are the outcomes to date. Senator Ellison—The Attorney-General has provided the following answer to the honour- able senator’s question: (1) I have responsibility for the Copyright Act 1968 (the Act); copyright being one of the various areas of intellectual property dealt with in the Intellectual Property Chapter of the Free Trade Agreement with the United States. Under the direction of the Minister for Trade, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has the responsibility for the negotiation of the free trade agreement as a whole. It has advised that the composite text, to the extent that it existed at the time, was the subject of an agreement with the United States that it would remain confidential between the parties. (2) See answer to question (1). (3) (a) The 4th round of negotiations of the Australia-United States free trade agreement was scheduled, and held, in Canberra from 27-31 October 2003. (b) The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade advises that at the conclusion of the September/October negotiations referred to in the question, there remained a number of substantial matters outstanding across all aspects of the intellectual property chapter. Immigration: Detainees (Question No. 2331) Senator Marshall asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 27 October 2003: (1) What facilities exist to house ‘illegal migrants’ in Australia. (2) How many and which of these are operated: (a) privately; and (b) by the Government. (3) How many ‘illegal migrants’ are held in each centre.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23129
(4) How many staff are employed at each centre. (5) What is the estimated cost, per annum, of operating each centre. (6) Of those persons held over the past 12 months in each of the ‘illegal migrant’ detention facilities, how many were: (a) family units; (b) men; (c) women; and (d) children. (7) Of those persons currently held in each of the ‘illegal migrant’ detention facilities, how many are: (a) family units; (b) men; (c) women; and (d) children. Senator Vanstone—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) Under the Migration Act 1958, unlawful non-citizens in Australia must be placed in immigration detention. The majority of detainees are accommodated in the following immigration detention facilities: • Baxter Immigration Detention Facility (IDF), near Port Augusta, South Australia; • Port Hedland Immigration Reception and Processing Centre (IRPC), Western Australia; • Villawood Immigration Detention Centre (IDC), Sydney, New South Wales; • Maribyrnong Immigration Detention Centre (IDC), Melbourne, Victoria; • Christmas Island Immigration Reception and Processing Centre (IRPC), Indian Ocean; and • Perth Immigration Detention Centre (IDC), Perth, Western Australia. Contingency facilities on Defence bases may be commissioned, if further capacity is required, at: • Woomera, South Australia; • Coonawarra, Darwin, Northern Territories; • Singleton, New South Wales; and • Curtin, Western Australia. Within the mandatory detention framework the Government has taken innovative approaches to detention for women, children and detainees with special needs. Alternative detention options outside immigration detention facilities include: • Residential Housing Projects (RHPs). RHPs provide a more domestic environment, enabling more autonomy (for example, in preparing meals). In addition to the usual recreational and social activities, residents are also able to go shopping and participate in community events. All women and children in detention are assessed against the guidelines for placement in a RHP or other detention arrangements. Participation in the RHPs is voluntary. Each individual family can decide whether to take up the RHP opportunity. RHPs operate in Port Augusta near Baxter IDF and Port Hedland near Port Hedland IRPC and a contingency RHP is at Woomera; • Foster care arrangements with State child welfare authorities. Where a child has no family members in detention, such as unaccompanied minors, the minor will usually be released on a bridging visa (if eligible) or transferred to alternative detention under the supervision of a State child welfare agency; • Community care placements for people with special needs; • Motels; and • Hospital care placements for people with special needs, including psychiatric care facilities. Under the Migration Act 1958, a prison or remand centre of the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory may be used for immigration detention. These are used in all States and Territories to varying degrees in locations where immigration detention centres are not available or for detainees
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23130 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
whose criminal background or non-compliant behaviour cannot be effectively managed within an immigration detention centre. (2) All immigration detention facilities, currently in operation, are managed by a non-government Detention Services Provider (DSP) under contract to the Commonwealth. The operations of the DSP in all immigration detention facilities are closely monitored and scrutinised by the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs. Detention operations are also subject to a broad range of external scrutiny, including by the Commonwealth Ombudsman the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission (HREOC) and the Immigration Detention Advisory Group (IDAG). (3) The location of detainees as at 17 March 2004 is as follows: • Baxter IDF - 213 • Port Hedland IRPC - 67 • Villawood IDC - 484 • Maribyrnong IDC - 71 • Christmas Island IRPC - 52 • Perth IDC - 17 • RHPs - 29 • Other - 105 Total 1038 (4) The Detention Services Contract between my Department and the DSP does not require specific numbers of staff, nor does it require reporting on this by the DSP to the department. There are no preset expectations of DSP staff numbers built into the pricing structure. The contract between the Department and the DSP is outcomes focussed, ie that services will be provided in accordance with the Immigration Detention Standards (IDS). The Department’s expectation is that the DSP has sufficient staff, and adjusts staff levels, to manage the needs of detainees at any given time. In this context, staff numbers will fluctuate in accordance with the needs of detainees and to ensure the safety and security of a detention facility. A performance monitoring procedure has been built into the detention contract to ensure compliance with the IDS. Monitoring occurs periodically at all facilities to help ensure a continued high level of service delivery within each facility. However, if the Department and the DSP discuss staffing issues, it would be in the context of monitoring service delivery against the IDS. Where there are service delivery concerns, the range of factors leading to those concerns may include the adequacy and competency of staffing. (5) During the financial year 2002-03, the operating expense for all immigration detention centres and RHPs was $113.9M. The breakdown of operating costs for each location open during the 2002-03 financial year was: • Baxter IDF - $30.6M • Port Hedland IRPC - $10.3M • Villawood IDC - $27.8M • Maribyrnong IDC - $4.9M • Christmas Island IRPC - $6.5M • Perth IDC - $4.0M • Woomera RHP - $2.2M
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23131
(6) The following is a breakdown of persons detained in all immigration detention facilities in the calendar year 2003: • Men - 5,547 • Women - 1,560 • Children - 541 Data on the number of families held in immigration detention over time is not routinely maintained and its compilation through manual collation would require a large diversion of departmental resources. (7) The following is a breakdown of 1038 persons in immigration detention as at 17 March 2004: Immigration Detention Centres (IRPCs, IDCs and Baxter IDF) • Men - 724 • Women - 124 • Children : • unauthorised boat arrivals in mainland detention centres - 12 • Christmas Island IRPC as part of extended family group - 16 • compliance cases - 28 Includes 49 family units* RHPs • Men - 0 • Women - 11 • Children - 18 Includes 11 family units* Community Placement/Foster Care • Men - 13 • Women - 7 • Children - 17 Includes 5 family units* • Total persons** - 1038 * Family unit includes: couples with no children; and child(ren) with one or both parents. ** Breakdown by age and gender as at 17 March 2004 for Other Facilities (such as hospitals, motels and prisons) is not readily available. Immigration: Detainees (Question No. 2359) Senator Marshall asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 3 November 2003: (1) What circumstances could lead to a detainee in an Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) being segregated from other detainees. (2) When detainees in IDCs are segregated from other detainees, what departmental or company processes are followed. (3) Who makes the decision to segregate a detainee.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23132 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(4) At the time of their segregation are detainees advised how long they will remain segregated and why they are to be segregated. (5) Whilst segregated from other detainees: (a) what access to services and facilities do detainees have: and (b) what services or facilities are denied. (6) In relation to detainees in each IDC held in solitary confinement during the past year, how many were held for longer than five days; and, in each case, for how much longer was each detainee held. (7) When a detainee is held in solitary confinement, is a report on the circumstances leading to the segregation of the detainee lodged with the department; if not, why not. (8) Is solitary confinement of detainees ever used as a form of punishment; if not, why have detainees who have been held in solitary confinement been denied reading and music materials. (9) Do detainees undertake psychological and/or psychiatric assessments prior to, during and/or after they spend time in solitary confinement; if not, why not; if so, are detainees provided with access to their own psychological or psychiatric assessments; if not, why not. Senator Vanstone—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) There are three main circumstances where detainees may be held away from the general population in an IDF: (a) Separation detention is used so that entry interview and associated migration checks can be completed in a way that protects the integrity of the protection visa process. This usually occurs immediately upon arrival in Australia. Separation detention ensures that Australia’s resources are directed at those with genuine claims for protection and not those who would use the protection process in an attempt to achieve broader migration outcomes. (b) Separation detention is also occasionally used to isolate unauthorised arrivals as a quarantine- type process until health screening is completed. It may also be used to isolate detainees with contagious diseases to protect the rest of the detainee population. (c) Detainees are sometimes segregated from the general population of a facility for observation in observation rooms or Management Units within Immigration Detention Facilities. These are used to monitor detainees who pose an immediate threat to themselves, to others or to the security and good order of the facility. For example, a detainee may be placed in a Management Unit for threats or acts of self-harm, property damage or violent behaviour toward others. From time to time detainees themselves request separation from the general population in a Management Unit for personal reasons. (2) Separation detention and the protection visa process Detainees who are unauthorised arrivals and placed in separation detention because they have not raised claims or information which prima facie may engage Australia’s protection obligations are advised of the reasons for their separation and their legal rights. Separation in these circumstances is usually in groups, not as individual separation. In order to protect the integrity of the protection visa process, detainees in separation detention may not receive visitors, make telephone calls, send faxes or receive mail during the initial reception period. They may send one letter to a family member advising that they are safe. If a detainee requests a lawyer or contact with their declared Embassy or Consulate during this period, facilities for this contact are provided. Detainees in separation detention who lodge a protection visa application are transferred from separation detention into a non-separation area where they have the ability to interact with the general population of the facility. All detainees in non-separation areas generally have full access to
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23133
newspapers, telephones, reading material, television and radio services, pens, writing paper and envelopes. Separation for health reasons For certain highly contagious illnesses, detainees not requiring hospitalisation may be quarantined within a facility’s observation or management unit(s) to limit the spread of a contagion. Quarantined detainees, in this circumstance, can return to the general population of a facility as soon as they have recovered from their illness. Individual medical management plans are assessed daily by a team of health professionals including doctors, nurses and other health care workers. These management plans are developed under the health protocols of the Detention Services Provider (DSP). Separation for good order and security In relation to a detainee in the circumstances outlined in (1)(c) above, an individual management plan for that detainee will be developed by the DSP. The aim of the plan is to equip the detainee to be able to re-join the general population of the centre as soon as possible. Where appropriate (for example, if the detainee is assessed as at risk of suicide or self-harm), the detainee may also be managed by a Special Needs Care Team. This comprises senior DSP centre- based managers, a health services professional and any others determined by the DSP Centre Manager as appropriate to the circumstances of the case. It may include a psychiatrist, counsellor, doctor or mental health nurse as an individual case manager who determines appropriate treatment, including the level of observation required and what accommodation would best suit the needs of the detainee. Subject to the individual management plan of a detainee and the security and good order of the facility, telephone calls and access to radio and television may be granted, where available. At all times, a detainee's access to their legal practitioner or other professional visitors will be facilitated. (3) The Department and the DSP can make decisions to segregate a detainee: (a) The decision to place detainees who are unauthorised arrivals and have not yet made claims that prima facie may engage Australia’s protection obligations, in separation detention is made by my Department. (b) Detainees who have contracted a communicable disease are placed in quarantine on the advice of health professionals at the centre. (c) The decision to place a detainee in a Management Unit for reasons of good order or security is made by the DSP. In relation to detainees identified as being at risk of suicide or self harm, the decision will be made by a Special Needs Care Team. (4) Given the nature of the reasons for separation detention it is usually not possible to advise detainees in advance of a fixed period for such separation. (5) Please refer to (2) above. (6) Whilst the vast majority of detainees accommodated in a Management Unit are held there for less than five days, there is a range of reasons why a detainee could be held there for longer, depending on their individual circumstances including their response to their individual management plan. Please refer to answers to parts (1) and (2) above. Individuals in Management Units, particularly those held there for longer periods, are carefully monitored. However, compiled data concerning the length of time detainees are accommodated in a Management Unit is not readily available. Its compilation would require manual searches of relevant records and, consequently, a large diversion of departmental resources. (7) If a detainee is accommodated in an observation room or Management Unit, the Department requires that it be advised by the DSP of the circumstances of that placement.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23134 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(8) Separation or segregation is not to be used as punishment. Reading and music materials will be made available if this is consistent with the management needs of the detainee concerned. (9) Please refer to (2) above. Mental health professionals are involved where this is relevant to the particular circumstances of the case. Psychiatric support will depend on individual needs and is guided by professional medical advice. Communications: Special Digital Data Service (Question No. 2375) Senator Lundy asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Infor- mation Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 10 November 2003. With reference to the Digital Data Service Special Rebate: (1) (a) How many people have applied for the rebate; (b) how many applications have been: (i) successful, and (ii) unsuccessful. (2) How much money has been allocated to this initiative, and of this money, how much has been spent. (3) Can a table be provided showing the grounds commonly given for rejecting applications and how many times each has been given. (4) On how many occasions did a rejection occur in an area which currently does not receive an Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN) service but is deemed to be potentially capable of receiving this service. (5) On what grounds would an area be deemed to be potentially capable of receiving an ISDN service, rather than not capable. (6) On how many occasions has an application for the rebate been denied because an area which cannot currently receive ISDN is deemed to be potentially capable of receiving an ISDN service, rather than not capable. Senator Kemp—The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) (a) There are two providers operating under the Special Digital Data Service Obligation (SDDSO), Telstra and Hotkey. Telstra advises that 1,401 applications for the SDDSO rebate have been received to 2002-03. Hotkey advises that 16 applications for the SDDSO have been received. (b) Both Telstra and Hotkey advise that all applications for the rebate were successful. (2) The cost of the SDDSO is part of the funds appropriated by Parliament for the Universal Service Obligation. As with the cost of USO, however, the funds are recovered from industry through a levy. That is, the SDDSO, like the USO, is industry-funded. As such, it is not simply a question of funds being allocated to the activity and then being expended. At the end of each financial year, SDDSO providers are able to submit claims to the Australian Communication Authority (ACA) for digital data costs incurred in fulfilling the SDDSO during that financial year. The ACA may make whatever inquiries it thinks necessary or desirable in order to determine whether or not claims correctly state the entitlement to an amount of the digital data cost of a provider. After making its inquiries, the ACA must make a written assessment, in respect of each SDDSO provider that submits a claim. The costs claimed by a SDDSO provider relate to providing the customer rebate for SDDSO satellite equipment and installation. The total SDDSO costs accepted by the ACA are shared among carriers. The amount contributed by each carrier is based on its share of total eligible revenue. The ACA invoices carriers for their levy contributions, and the funds collected are then reimbursed to the SDDSO providers according to their digital data costs.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23135
Year Telstra ($) Hotkey ($) Total ($) 1999-2000 15 927.00 - 15 927.00 2000-2001 124 268.00 - 124 268.00 2001-2002 138 195.00 1 950.00 140 145.00 2002-2003 144 309.00 4 368.44 148 677.44 Total 422 699.00 6 318.44 429 017.44 Payments to SDDSO providers are published annually, including in the ACA’s report on industry performance under s.105 of the Telecommunications Act 1997. (3) As noted in the answer to part (1), both Telstra and Hotkey have indicated all SDDSO rebate applications have been successful. The primary reason for rejecting an application would be if the customer concerned did not reside or carry out business in a special digital data service area (ie. the customer is able to obtain an ISDN service). Such a customer would be covered by the General DDSO, not the SDDSO. (4) Both Telstra and Hotkey have not rejected any applications for the rebate. (5) The SDDSO rebate is provided to those eligible customers who reside or carry on business in special digital data service areas. Telstra’s obligation to supply ISDN services is set out in the Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Service Standards) Act 1999 and the Digital Data Service Areas Determination 1999 (No. 1). The Determination lists those Telstra exchange service areas where Telstra is obligated to supply ISDN services subject to the exceptions set out in Section 5 of the Determination. Hotkey advises that it uses an on-line service qualification tool provided by Telstra to ascertain whether a customer has access to ISDN. (6) Both Hotkey and Telstra inform that no applications have been denied rebates due to a premises which cannot currently receive ISDN being deemed to be potentially capable of receiving an ISDN service. If a customer’s premises is in the general DDSO area the customer would be eligible to be provided with an ISDN service if requested. If the premises is not in the general SSDO area see part (5), the customer is eligible for the a service, and thus the rebate. Any concerns about providers not meeting their obligations under the general or special DDSO should, in the first instance, be raised with the provider and, if the customer remains dissatisfied, with the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman. Concerns about regulatory non-compliance can be raised with the ACA. Environment: Lake Kununurra (Question No. 2480) Senator Nettle asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Heri- tage, upon notice, on 22 December 2003: With reference to land clearing in Reserve 41812 within the Kununurra RAMSAR site boundary: (1) Has the Minister been made aware of this clearing. (2) Was a permit to clear sought by the proponents from Environment Australia; if not, why not. (3) Does this land clearing breach the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999; if not, why not. (4) Does this land clearing breach the requirements of Australia’s commitment to a RAMSAR agreement; if not, why not; if so: (a) will the proponent be prosecuted; if not, why not; and (b) will the proponent be required to rehabilitate the area; if not, why not.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23136 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for the Environment and Heritage has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) I am advised that my Department is aware of clearing that has occurred adjacent to Lake Kununurra. (2) No. (3) My Department is investigating the clearing to determine whether or not there has been a contravention of the EPBC Act. (4) See (3) above. Tourism: Australia-Pacific Cruise Industry (Question No. 2574) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Small Business and Tourism, upon notice, on 24 February 2004: (1) Can a copy be provided of the current Action Plan for the Development of the Australia-Pacific Cruise Industry (2) Can details be provided of the actions the Government has taken since the release of the Tourism White Paper in November 2003 to review and update the action plan. (3) Since 1 July 2002, what meetings have taken place between divisions of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Resources, and/or the Australian Tourist Commission (ATC) and any other party, to review and update the action plan. (4) When and where was each meeting held. (5) Who attended each meeting. (6) What were the primary outcomes of each meeting. (7) Were records made of each meeting; if so, can a copy of these records be provided; if not, why not. (8) As part of this review, which Commonwealth regulatory and taxation issues are being examined. (9) What is the scheduled completion date for the review. (10) Can lists be provided of: (a) the parties who have been consulted to date as part of the review; and (b) the parties who it is intended will be consulted as part of the review. Senator Abetz—The Minister for Small Business and Tourism has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The Action Plan was developed by industry body Cruise Down Under in 1997 and submitted to the Government - it is not a public document. (2) The review of the Action Plan will not commence until the second half of 2004. (3) None. Discussions with stakeholders on the scope of the review and relevant administrative arrangements will commence in the latter half of this financial year. (4) n/a. (5) n/a. (6) n/a. (7) n/a. (8) Yet to be determined. (9) Before July 2005. (10) (a) None to date;
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23137
(b) Cruise ship operators, port authorities, State/Territory and Australian Government Tourism Departments/agencies, tourism industry bodies, regional tourism authorities and other interested/involved parties - depending upon the scope of the review. Small Business: Studies (Question No. 2577) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Small Business and Tourism, upon notice, on 24 February 2004: (1) Have studies examining the impact of the goods and services tax (GST) on the restaurant, catering and cafe sector in Australia been conducted or commissioned by the department or the Office of Small Business since 1 July 2000; if so: (a) who performed the studies; (b) can a copy of each study be provided; if not, why not; (c) what are the key recommendations of each study; and (d) when will these recommendations be implemented. (2) Have studies examining the impact of the GST on small business tourism operators in Australia been conducted or commissioned by the department or the Office of Small Business since 1 July 2000; if so: (a) who performed the studies; (b) can a copy of each study be provided; if not, why not; (c) what are the key recommendations of each study; and (d) when will these recommendations be implemented. Senator Abetz—The Minister for Small Business and Tourism has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The case studies conducted by the Office of Small Business examining the impact of regulations imposed by government on small businesses in the restaurant and catering industry were provided to Senator Conroy in response to a question asked at the Senate Estimates hearing on 5 November 2003. (2) Case studies currently being conducted by the Office of Small Business examining the impact of regulations imposed on small businesses in the tourism industry have not yet been completed. National Office for the Information Economy: Personnel (Question No. 2650) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Infor- mation Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 3 March 2004: (1) (a) How many full-time personnel are employed by the National Office for the Information Economy (NOIE) in order to fulfil that agency’s e-security role; and (b) at what Australian Public Service (APS) levels are these personnel employed. (2) (a) How many part-time personnel are employed by NOIE in order to fulfil that agency’s e-security role; and (b) at what APS levels are these personnel employed. Senator Kemp—The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) (a) There were five full-time personnel employed by the National Office for the Information Economy (NOIE) in order to fulfil the agency’s e-security role. (b) The Australian Public Service (APS) levels for these personnel were as follows: i. 1 x Executive Level 2; ii. 3 x Executive Level 1; and iii. 1 x APS Level 4.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23138 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
From 8 April 2004 these staff have been working within the Office for the Information Economy in the Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, undertaking the same roles. (2) (a) and (b) There were no part-time personnel employed by NOIE in order to fulfil the agency’s e- security role. Social Welfare: Newstart Allowance (Question Nos 2662 and 2663) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Family and Community Services, upon notice, on 4 March 2004: (1) Is it the case that a person on a standard maximum Newstart benefit receives $385 per fortnight, or $10 010 per annum. (2) Is it the case that when a person receives $90 or more for paid employment, the benefit is then classified as taxable income. (3) For a person on Newstart who earns $90 in a financial year: (a) is the Newstart allowance reduced to $9996; (b) assuming no other sources of income and no deductions, is the taxable income deemed to be $10 086 (i.e. $9 996 + $90); (c) is the tax on this income equal to $694.62; (d) is the net income after tax equal to $9 436.38 (i.e. $10 086 - $694.62); and (e) does this represent a net loss to that person of $573.62 (i.e. $10 010 - $9436.38). (4) Is a loss on earnings of $90 equivalent to a tax of over 700 per cent. Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The maximum basic rate of Newstart Allowance until 20 March 2004 for a single person without dependent children was $385 a fortnight. If this rate were payable throughout a financial year, and assuming 26 fortnightly payments were made, the total amount of Newstart Allowance received would be $10 010. (2) No. Newstart Allowance is assessable income for income tax purposes regardless of the level of private income. (3) (a) The effect on the rate paid depends on the period over which the $90 is earned and whether the person has a Working Credit balance. A person with no Working Credit balance, and who earns the amount in one fortnight, would have a reduction in their Newstart Allowance of $14.00. In other circumstances, the rate reduction may be less than this, including zero reduction. (b) Assuming the maximum rate annual Newstart Allowance payment was $10 010 and that the person had no Working Credit balance, and earned the amount of $90 in one fortnight, this would be correct. (c) No. The tax would be zero. The beneficiary tax offset would offset the tax payable on that part of the Newstart Allowance that exceeds the threshold of $6 000. In effect, the $90 private income would be taxed at the 17 per cent marginal tax rate, giving an initial tax liability of $15.30. However, this would be entirely negated by the low income tax offset, resulting in no tax being payable. (d) No, see (3)(c). (e) No, see (3)(c). (4) No, see (3)(c).
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23139
Defence: Properties (Question No. 2685) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 9 March 2004: Can a list be provided of all properties that are owned or leased by the Australian Defence Organisation, including but not limited to all offices, logistics and warehousing/stores sites, bases, establishments and other properties, indicating for each property: (a) details of: (i) its size, (ii) its address, and (iii) whether it is currently owned by the Commonwealth or leased; (b) whether the property has been identified for future disposal; and (c) whether it has been identified as surplus to requirements and, if so, the intended timetable for, and method of, disposal. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (a) (i), (ii) and (iii) Defence records indicate that there are 407 owned and 347 leased properties. The details requested are in the attached spreadsheets. (b) and (c) The Government continues to look at Defence basing issues nationwide to determine where forces for the future should be best placed in terms of military effectiveness, cost efficiencies, and economic consequences. Not all of the Defence estate is optimised or in the best location from an Australian Defence Force perspective. In addition, it is very important to ensure that no more Defence infrastructure is maintained than is required. In relation to properties that are currently identified for disposal, details were published in the House of Representatives Hansard on Tuesday 14 May 2002 (page 2040) in Question No. 136 and written answer to W10 lodged on 4 February 2004. The method of disposal for these properties will vary depending on the nature of the individual properties, with industry experts engaged to develop marketing strategies, noting that all Defence property will be disposed of in accordance with the Commonwealth Property Disposal Policy. OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE FORCE CAMPBELL ACT 52.000 ACADEMIC (ADFA) ADFA PLAYING FIELDS CAMPBELL ACT 31.000 ADFA PHYSICS FIELD CAMPBELL ACT 23.710 RUSSELL OFFICES CANBERRA ACT 13.970 WERRIWA CANBERRA CITY ACT 0.764 ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE DUNTROON ACT 140.000 RAAF BASE FAIRBAIRN FAIRBAIRN ACT 103.000 GUNGAHLIN WIRELESS TRANSMITTER GUNGAHLIN ACT 52.690 BHERWERE RIDGE JERVIS BAY ACT 1.920 HMAS CRESWELL - NOWRA JERVIS BAY ACT 210.000 JERVIS BAY RANGE FACLITY JERVIS BAY ACT 312.690 BEECROFT RAPIER RANGE JERVIS BAY ACT 4,016.000 BELCONNEN RADIO STATION LAWSON ACT 149.000 MAJURA RANGE - CANBERRA MAJURA ACT 3,649.000 NAVIGATIONAL AID SITE MAJURA ACT 0.00* HMAS HARMAN SYMONSTON ACT 258.000 ADFA MARINE FACILITY YARRALUMLA ACT 0.126 NEWCASTLE TRAINING DEPOT ADAMSTOWN NSW 15.000 ARMIDALE GRES DEPOT ARMIDALE NSW 1.000 PITTWATER DIVING ANNEX - TAYLORS AVALON NSW 1.000 POINT
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23140 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) HMAS PENGUIN BALMORAL NSW 18.000 THE OVAL-MIDDLE HD (LOWER BALMORAL NSW 2.210 GEORGES HGTS) BANKSMEADOW TRAINING DEPOT BANKSMEADOW NSW 2.430 BATHURST TRAINING / STORES DEPOT BATHURST NSW 52.660 BELMORE TRAINING DEPOT BELMORE NSW 2.000 BLACKTOWN TRAINING DEPOT BLACKTOWN NSW 1.073 BOGAN GATE STORES DEPOT BOGAN GATE NSW 1,031.000 DEFCOMM - RECEIVER STATION BOREE CREEK NSW 12,760.000 BRINGELLY RADIO RECEIVING BRINGELLY NSW 114.580 STATION BROKEN HILL TRAINING DEPOT BROKEN HILL NSW 1.784 CASINO GRES DEPOT CASINO NSW 1.000 ARMY MARITIME SCHOOL CHOWDER BAY NSW 4.500 COCKATOO ISLAND DOCKYARD COCKATOO NSW 20.000 ISLAND COFFS HARBOUR GRES DEPOT COFFS NSW 2.277 HARBOUR COOTAMUNDRA ARES DEPOT - COOTAMUNDRA NSW 0.355 RETENTION DEE WHY TRAINING DEPOT DEE WHY NSW 2.165 MYAMBAT LOGISTIC COMPANY DENMAN NSW 1,162.640 SPECTACLE ISLAND DRUMMOYNE NSW 2.000 DUBBO TRAINING DEPOT DUBBO NSW 1.000 TIMOR BARRACKS DUNDAS NSW 5.000 CAMP SAPPER - EAST HILLS EAST HILLS NSW 28.556 ERINA GRES DEPOT ERINA NSW 0.830 BLAMEY BARRACKS FOREST HILL NSW 0.933 WOOLLOOMOOLOO CARPARK GARDEN NSW 0.00* ISLAND NAVAL FUEL INSTALLATION - GEORGES NSW 2.100 CHOWDER BAY HEIGHTS HEADQUARTERS TRAINING COMMAND GEORGES NSW 32.000 HEIGHTS AIR HEADQUARTERS AUSTRALIA GLENBROOK NSW 20.000 GOULBURN TRAINING DEPOT GOULBURN NSW 1.000 GRAFTON GENERAL RESERVES (GRES) GRAFTON NSW 0.251 DEPOT HABERFIELD TRAINING DEPOT HABERFIELD NSW 2.000 HOLSWORTHY BARRACKS HOLSWORTHY NSW 19,848.439 HORNSBY RIFLE RANGE HORNSBY NSW 142.000 BARDIA BARRACKS INGLEBURN NSW 312.000 INVERELL AIR TRAINING CORP (AIRTC) INVERELL NSW 0.00* BLAMEY BARRACKS KAPOOKA NSW 1,986.000 KEMPSEY GRES DEPOT KEMPSEY NSW 2.000 SIGNAL STORES DEPOT KINGSWOOD NSW 8.003 SIGNAL STORES DEPOT KINGSWOOD NSW 14.027 LEETON ARES DEPOT LEETON NSW 0.410
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23141
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) LIDCOMBE TRAINING DEPOT LIDCOMBE NSW 1.000 LISMORE GRES DEPOT LISMORE NSW 3.000 LITHGOW VACANT LAND - LOTS 9, 10 & LITHGOW NSW 0.199 11 DEFCOMARS - WAGGA WAGGA LOCKHART NSW 2,092.000 LONDONDERRY RTS LONDONDERRY NSW 74.000 SCHOOL OF ARTILLERY - NORTH HEAD MANLY NSW 73.680 MARRANGAROO DEPOT MARRANGAROO NSW 1,338.000 AMIENS - DISPOSAL MOOREBANK NSW 5.805 MOOREBANK AREA MOOREBANK NSW 91.100 MIDDLE HEAD BARRACKS MOSMAN NSW 10.000 MOSMAN TRAINING DEPOT MOSMAN NSW 1.000 MULWALA EXPLOSIVES FACTORY MULWALA NSW 0.00* MURWILLUMBAH GRES DEPOT MURWILLUMBA NSW 0.242 H MUSWELLBROOK GRES DEPOT MUSWELLBROO NSW 2.000 K HMAS PLATYPUS NEUTRAL BAY NSW 2.000 TRAINING SHIP TOBRUK NEWCASTLE NSW 0.119 HMAS ALBATROSS NOWRA NSW 876.340 ORANGE TRAINING DEPOT ORANGE NSW 4.000 AIR TRAINING CORP ORANGE ORANGE NSW 0.00* RAN, MISSILE MAINTENANCE ORCHARD HILLS NSW 540.730 ESTABLISHMENT DEFENCE ESTABLISHMENT ORCHARD ORCHARD HILLS NSW 1,742.006 HILLS PADDINGTON - BAND FACILITY PADDINGTON NSW 0.00* VICTORIA BARRACKS - SYDNEY PADDINGTON NSW 13.000 PARKES TRAINING DEPOT PARKES NSW 2.000 LANCER BARRACKS PARRAMATTA NSW 1.000 PENRITH DEPOT - DISPOSAL PORTION PENRITH NSW 0.00* ENGINEERS STORES DEPOT PENRITH NSW 50.950 THROSBY TRAINING DEPOT PORT KEMBLA NSW 0.621 HMAS KUTTABUL POTTS POINT NSW 9,580.000 KISMET WARDROOM - HMAS POTTS POINT NSW 1,650.000 KUTTABUL AC LEWIS HOUSE POTTS POINT NSW 1,341.000 POINT PERPENDICULAR LIGHTHOUSE PT NSW 4.040 PERPENDICULA R PYMBLE MULTI USER DEPOT PYMBLE NSW 1.000 SCHOFIELD QUAKERS HILL NSW 153.300 NAVAL & AIR STORES RANDWICK NSW 34.000 RANDWICK BARRACKS - DISPOSAL RANDWICK NSW 17.000 PORTION RANDWICK BARRACKS RANDWICK NSW 28.000 RAAF BASE RICHMOND RICHMOND NSW 277.452 RICHMOND - FUEL FARM / MEDICAL / RICHMOND NSW 123.904
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23142 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) DENTAL ROCKDALE TRAINING DEPOT ROCKDALE NSW 2.000 RUTHERFORD GRES DEPOT RUTHERFORD NSW 1.254 NAVY STORES DEPOT RYDALMERE NSW 1.960 SALTASH AIR WEAPONS RANGE SALT ASH NSW 567.000 SINGLETON MILITARY AREA SINGLETON NSW 14,572.000 STOCKTON RIFLE RANGE STOCKTON NSW 111.300 FORT WALLACE - STOCKTON STOCKTON NSW 31.760 SUTHERLAND TRAINING DEPOT SUTHERLAND NSW 2.287 BEERSHEBA BARRACKS TAMWORTH NSW 1.000 TAREE DEPOT TAREE NSW 2.000 DEGAUSSING RANGE - SHARK ISLAND VAUCLUSE NSW 0.500 RAAF BASE WAGGA - FOREST HILL WAGGA WAGGA NSW 299.600 HMAS WATSON - SOUTHHEAD WATSONS BAY NSW 15.000 HMAS WATERHEN WAVERTON NSW 4.000 RAAF BASE WILLIAMTOWN WILLIAMTOWN NSW 985.919 COMMAND & REPORTING UNIT WILLIAMTOWN NSW 8.680 ORDNANCE DEPOT WIRLINGA NSW 371.000 TS ALBATROSS WOLLONGONG NSW 0.00* WOLLONGONG MULTI - USER DEPOT WOLLONGONG NSW 14,220.000 WOLLONGONG AIR TRAINING CORP WOLLONGONG NSW 0.774 GARDEN IS DOCKYARD / FLEET BASE WOOLLOOMOOL NSW 2,320.000 WHARVES OO WOOLWICH BARRACKS WOOLWICH NSW 7.000 NORFORCE DEPOT ALICE SPRINGS NT 0.854 HMAS COONAWARRA BERRIMAH NT 151.000 EAST COONAWARRA - PALMERSTON BERRIMAH NT 121.800 OIL FUEL INSTALLATION - STOKES DARWIN NT 0.00* HILL JINDALEE TRANSMITTING HARTS RANGE NT 1,036.000 KOWANDI COMMUNICATION STATION HOWARD NT 380.000 SPRINGS KOWANDI SOUTH - COMMUNICATION HUMPTY DOO NT 320.400 STATION KANGAROO FLATS TRAINING AREA KANGAROO NT 5,189.000 FLATS LEANYER BUFFER AREA KARAMA NT 2,460.000 TINDAL WEAPONS RANGE DELAMERE KATHERINE NT 211,200.000 RECEIVING SITE-TINDAL KING RIVER NT 3,200.000 DARWIN NAVAL BASE LARRAKEYAH NT 86.000 LARRAKEYAH BARRACKS - KAHLIN LARRAKEYAH NT 70.000 RADAR SITE LEE POINT NT 81.000 RECEIVING STATION LEE POINT NT 167.560 TRANSMITTING STATION - HUMPTY MIDDLE POINT NT 794.000 DOO MT BUNDY TRG AREA MT BUNDY NT 117,300.000 JINDALEE RECEIVER - MT EVERARD MT EVERARD NT 1,158.000 BERRIMAH TRANSMITTING STATION PALMERSTON NT 75.010
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23143
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) ROBERTSON BARRACKS PALMERSTON NT 710.000 DRIVER TRAINING AREA ROBERTSON PALMERSTON NT 29.990 BARRACKS CHILD CARE CENTRE PALMERSTON NT 2.510 JOINT DEFENCE SPACE RESEARCH PINE GAP NT 1,780.000 BOMBING RANGE QUAIL ISLAND NT 75.000 RECEIVING STATION SHOAL BAY NT 5,919.000 TIMBER CREEK - BRADSHAW STATION TIMBER CREEK NT 871,000.000 RAAF BASE TINDAL TINDAL NT 29,221.000 RAAF BASE DARWIN WINNELLIE NT 1,223.000 AMBERLEY - VHF STATION AMBERLEY QLD 22.530 AMBERLEY - REMOTE RECEIVERS SITE AMBERLEY QLD 175.293 RAAF BASE AMBERLEY AMBERLEY QLD 1,656.992 AMBERLEY - TRANSMITTING STATION AMBERLEY QLD 28.540 AMBERLEY – MARRIED QUARTER AMBERLEY QLD 22.950 AREA AMBERLEY - AREA LADY SHERGER AMBERLEY QLD 1.274 AMBERLEY - BUFFER ZONE SOUTH AMBERLEY QLD 9.912 AMBERLEY - BUFFER ZONE SOUTH AMBERLEY QLD 20.303 AMBERLEY BUFFER ZONE AMBERLEY QLD 96.520 AMBERLEY - BUFFER ZONE EAST AMBERLEY QLD 22.160 AMBERLEY - POLICE TRAINING AMBERLEY QLD 1.267 ATHERTON RIFLE RANGE ATHERTON QLD 119.600 ATHERTON TRAINING DEPOT ATHERTON QLD 0.715 TSIMBA RIDGE DEPOT AYR QLD 0.877 BILOELA TRAINING DEPOT BILOELA QLD 0.625 BOHLE RIVER TRANSMITTING STATION BOHLE QLD 484.400 BOWEN TRAINING DEPOT BOWEN QLD 1.008 VICTORIA BARRACKS BRISBANE CITY QLD 2.698 BULIMBA BARRACKS - BRISBANE BULIMBA QLD 23.200 BUNDABERG TRAINING DEPOT BUNDABERG QLD 0.389 BORNEO BARRACKS CABARLAH QLD 221.050 CABOOLTURE MUD - NORTH BRISBANE CABOOLTURE QLD 1.976 HMAS CAIRNS CAIRNS QLD 7.000 KENNY ST NAVAL STORES CAIRNS QLD 0.810 LAS PALMAS MOTEL CAIRNS QLD 0.417 NORTHERN HERITAGE MOTEL CAIRNS QLD 0.285 KOKODA BARRACKS-CANUNGRA - CANUNGRA QLD 5,992.290 HERITAGE COOKTOWN ARES DEPOT COOKTOWN QLD 0.00* DALBY TRAINING DEPOT DALBY QLD 0.162 DOTSWOOD CAMP & WATER RESERVE DOTSWOOD QLD 0.000 DYSART TRAINING DEPOT DYSART QLD 0.320 HEADQUARTERS - QUEERAH EDMONTON QLD 3.194 GALLIPOLI BARRACKS ENOGGERA QLD 633.000 TOWNSVILLE - SPORTS GROUND GARBUTT QLD 7.942 GLADSTONE ARES DEPOT GLADSTONE QLD 0.278 GYMPIE TRAINING DEPOT GYMPIE QLD 0.423
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23144 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) TOOWOOMBA TRAINING DEPOT HARRISTOWN QLD 3.722 HORN ISLAND TRAINING AREA HORN ISLAND QLD 87.368 COWLEY TRAINING AREA INARLINGA QLD 5,171.739 WITTON BARRACKS - HERITAGE INDOOROOPILL QLD 1.952 Y INGHAM TRAINING DEPOT INGHAM QLD 0.516 INNISFAIL TRAINING DEPOT INNISFAIL QLD 0.202 DEFENCE SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY INNISFAIL QLD 36.080 ORGANISATION (DSTO) PIN GIN HILL LIVERPOOL CREEK - INNISFAIL INNISFAIL QLD 1,688.000 IPSWICH TRAINING DEPOT IPSWICH QLD 1.399 TULLY TRAINING AREA JARRA CREEK QLD 1,683.552 JENNINGS STORES DEPOT JENNINGS QLD 742.635 TURKEY HILL RADAR STATION JONDARYAN QLD 0.250 WYOMING - OAKEY SATELLITE JONDARYAN QLD 121.500 AIRFIELD GREENBANK TRAINING AREA LOGAN QLD 4,665.020 LOGANLEA ARES DEPOT LOGANLEA QLD 9,144.000 JINDALEE TRANSMITTING STATION LONGREACH QLD 15,724.370 KOMIATUM BARRACKS MACKAY QLD 0.808 MACROSSAN CAMP MACROSSAN QLD 382.800 AMAROO MAGNETIC QLD 2.700 ISLAND MAREEBA TRAINING DEPOT MAREEBA QLD 0.405 MARYBOROUOGH TRAINING DEPOT MARYBOROUGH QLD 0.984 MARYBOROUGH RIFLE RANGE MARYBOROUGH QLD 190.445 DAMASCUS BARRACKS MEEANDAH QLD 59.160 MACKAY RIFLE RANGE MOUNT VINCE QLD 169.296 MT ISA TRAINING DEPOT MT ISA QLD 0.919 TACAN - MOUNT LOUISA MT LOUISA QLD 18.325 MT STUART TRAINING AREA MT STUART QLD 6,187.000 DEFENCE COMMUNICATIONS SITE - MT MT WALKER QLD 0.00* WALKER FAR NORTH QUEENSLAND NORMANTON QLD 0.00* NORMANTON GRES DEPOT JEZZINE BARRACKS - TOWNSVILLE NORTH WARD QLD 15.018 HOHENHAUS OAKEY QLD 5.749 ARMY AVIATION CENTRE OAKEY QLD 584.465 SATELLITE AIRFIELD - OAKEY OAKEY QLD 265.850 NAVAID PALLARANDA QLD 19.540 AMBERLEY - SMALL ARMS RANGE PURGA QLD 428.700 LOGISTICS SUPPORT DEPOT ROCKHAMPTON QLD 37.639 ROCKHAMPTON TRAINING DEPOT ROCKHAMPTON QLD 1.133 ROMA TRAINING DEPOT ROMA QLD 1.356 ROSS ISLAND BARRACKS ROSS ISLAND QLD 0.00* SHOALWATER BAY TRAINING AREA SHOALWATER QLD 274,070.000 MACKAY TRAINING DEPOT SOUTH MACKAY QLD 0.344 SOUTHPORT TRAINING DEPOT SOUTHPORT QLD 2.000
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23145
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) ST LUCIA TRAINING DEPOT ST LUCIA QLD 0.831 STANTHORPE TRAINING DEPOT STANTHORPE QLD 0.297 JINDALEE RECEIVING STATION STONEHENGE QLD 46,997.000 JOINT DEFENCE FACILITY THURSDAY QLD 2.236 ISLAND TIN CAN BAY TRAINING AREA TIN CAN BAY QLD 20,030.472 TOOWOOMBA RIFLE RANGE TOOWOOMBA QLD 379.124 LAVARACK BARRACKS TOWNSVILLE QLD 1,810.000 TOWNSVILLE FIELD TRAINING AREA TOWNSVILLE QLD 203,992.000 TOWNSVILLE - RAILWAY EXTENSION TOWNSVILLE QLD 3.440 LAND RAAF BASE TOWNSVILLE + OTHERS TOWNSVILLE QLD 882.700 DEFENCE COMMUNITY ORG - VINCENT QLD 0.154 TOWNSVILLE SANANANDA BARRACKS WACOL QLD 244.963 WALLANGARRA STORES DEPOT WALLANGARRA QLD 165.400 WARWICK TRAINING DEPOT WARWICK QLD 0.205 RAAF BASE SCHERGER WEIPA QLD 0.00* WONDAI TRAINING DEPOT WONDAI QLD 1.287 YANDINA TRAINING DEPOT YANDINA QLD 0.957 BERRI TRAINING DEPOT BERRI SA 1.417 PORT ADELAIDE TRAINING FACILITY BIRKENHEAD SA 0.409 CLARE TRAINING DEPOT CLARE SA 1.457 RAAF BASE EDINBURGH EDINBURGH SA 897.000 DSTO EDINBURGH EDINBURGH SA 280.000 DSTO EDINBURGH - DISPOSAL AREA EDINBURGH SA 517.000 ELIZABETH TRAINING DEPOT ELIZABETH SA 33.680 NORTH ELIZABETH TRG DEPOT - DISPOSAL ELIZABETH SA 2.050 PORTION NORTH GAWLER AIRTC GAWLER SA 0.204 HAMPSTEAD BARRACKS GREENACRES SA 7.247 KADINA TRAINING DEPOT KADINA SA 1.209 KESWICK BARRACKS - ADELAIDE KESWICK SA 12.799 MT GAMBIER TRAINING DEPOT MOUNT SA 1.146 GAMBIER MURRAY BRIDGE RANGE MURRAY SA 4,207.880 BRIDGE MURRAY BRIDGE TRAINING DEPOT MURRAY SA 1.080 BRIDGE DEPOT/RAPIER REPAIR FACILITY PENFIELD SA 100.500 CULTANA TRAINING AREA PORT AUGUSTA SA 47,398.740 EL ALAMEIN PORT AUGUSTA SA 113.314 PORT LINCOLN TRAINING DEPOT PORT LINCOLN SA 1.800 COOMUNGA RANGE PORT LINCOLN SA 160.380 PORT PIRIE MUD PORT PIRIE SA 3,611.000 PORT WAKEFIELD SAFETY AREA PORT SA 181.500 WAKEFIELD
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23146 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) PORT WAKEFIELD - SPYROPOLOUS L PORT SA 40.480 WAKEFIELD PROOF & EXPERIMENTAL PORT SA 5,410.000 ESTABLISHMENT WAKEFIELD LAUNCHER SITES - WOOMERA ROXBY DOWNS SA 11.968 ST KILDA - DISPOSAL PORTION ST KILDA SA 115.327 RADIO RESEARCH STATION ST KILDA SA 106.580 WARRADALE BARRACKS - OAKLANDS WARRADALE SA 22.970 PARK WHYALLA TRAINING DEPOT WHYALLA SA 0.202 WOODSIDE BARRACKS WOODSIDE SA 169.640 DEFENCE SUPPORT CENTRE WOOMERA SA 4,761.000 NURRUNGAR WOOMERA SA 1,553.000 LAUNCHER SITE RANGE E - WOOMERA SA 1,887.000 KOOLYMILKA LAUNCHER SITE RANGE WOOMERA SA 113.310 BUCKLAND TRAINING AREA BUCKLAND TAS 2,867.000 BURNIE TRAINING DEPOT BURNIE TAS 0.325 DEVONPORT TRAINING DEPOT DEVONPORT TAS 1.588 DOWSING POINT TRAINING DEPOT DOWSING POINT TAS 0.00* ANGLESEA BARRACKS HOBART TAS 6.500 PATERSON BARRACKS LAUNCESTON TAS 0.576 PONTVILLE RIFLE RANGE PONTVILLE TAS 516.412 DSTO -SCOTSDALE SCOTTSDALE TAS 1.000 FORT DIRECTION SOUTH ARM TAS 105.210 STONY HEAD TRAINING AREA STONY HEAD TAS 5,019.000 STONY HEAD TRAINING AREA STONY HEAD TAS 36.680 WARRANE TRAINING DEPOT WARRANE TAS 0.860 YOUNGTOWN TRAINING DEPOT YOUNGTOWN TAS 1.618 BAIRNSDALE TRAINING DEPOT BAIRNSDALE VIC 1.136 BALLARAT MULTI USER DEPOT - LOTS BALLARAT VIC 4.000 2,3,4&5 BROODSEINDE BARRACKS BALLARAT VIC 4.716 BALLARAT AIR TRAINING CORP BALLARAT VIC 0.399 BANDIANA MILITARY AREA BANDIANA VIC 823.000 LONGLEA MAGAZINE AREA BENDIGO VIC 2.500 PASSCHENDALE BARRACKS BENDIGO VIC 0.304 FORTUNA - ARMY SURVEY BENDIGO VIC 7.467 LATCHFORD BARRACKS BONEGILLA VIC 220.471 BROADMEADOWS - DISPOSAL BROADMEADO VIC 49.070 PORTION WS MAYGAR BARRACKS BROADMEADO VIC 12.230 WS DUTSON BOMBING RANGE BULN BULN VIC 3,030.000 EAST SALE - SURVEILLANCE RADAR BULN BULN VIC 1.000 CARLTON TRAINING DEPOT CARLTON VIC 0.197 COLAC TRAINING DEPOT COLAC VIC 1,480.000 HMAS CERBERUS - WESTERN PORT CRIB POINT VIC 1,517.700
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23147
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) SOUTH EAST MELBOURNE MULTI- DANDENONG VIC 0.00* USER DEPOT DANDENONG TRAINING DEPOT DANDENONG VIC 0.274 NAVAL TRANSMITTING STATION DARRIMAN VIC 353.500 RAAF BASE EAST SALE EAST SALE VIC 790.250 BOBDUBI BARRACKS ECHUCA VIC 0.685 DSTO FISHERMANS BEND FISHERMENS VIC 12.430 BEND WEST HEAD GUNNERY RANGE FLINDERS VIC 16.000 GEELONG TRAINING DEPOT GEELONG VIC 0.694 GEELONG TRAINING DEPOT GEELONG VIC 0.00* PROOF & EXPERIMENTAL ESTAB GRAYTOWN VIC 5,130.346 HAWTHORN TRAINING DEPOT HAWTHORN VIC 0.467 HORSHAM TRAINING DEPOT HORSHAM VIC 0.825 KYNETON TRAINING DEPOT KYNETON VIC 0.082 AVALON AIRFIELD - REVENUE LEASE LARA VIC 1,750.000 RAAF BASE WILLIAMS LAVERTON VIC 434.000 LONGLEA MAGAZINE AREA LONGLEA VIC 599.000 MANGALORE AMMUNITION DEPOT MANGALLORE VIC 508.900 ENGINEER DEVELOPMENT MARIBYRNONG VIC 12.000 ESTABLISHMENT MARIBYRNONG EXPLOSIVE FACTORY MARIBYRNONG VIC 94.500 DSTO MARIBYRNONG MARIBYRNONG VIC 28.500 KAIRIVU BARRACKS MILDURA VIC 0.186 ARMY TECHNICAL ENGINEERING MONEGEETTA VIC 256.040 AGENCY TRIALS / PROVING ESTABLISHMENT MENIN BARRACKS - MOONEE PONDS MOONEE PONDS VIC 0.437 MT WAVERLY TRAINING DEPOT MOUNT VIC 1.902 WAVERLEY NEWBOROUGH TRAINING DEPOT NEWBOROUGH VIC 4.090 AIRTC GEELONG NEWTOWN VIC 0.063 OAKLEIGH TRAINING DEPOT OAKLEIGH VIC 3.170 RAAF BASE WILLIAMS POINT COOK VIC 344.000 POINT WILSON EXPLOSIVES AREA POINT WILSON VIC 325.880 NORRIS BARRACKS PORTSEA VIC 316.700 PUCKAPUNYAL MILITARY AREA PUCKAPUNYAL VIC 37,358.314 STAFF COLLEGE - FORT QUEENSCLIFF QUEENSCLIFF VIC 6.768 SWAN ISLAND TRAINING AREA QUEENSCLIFF VIC 297.000 RINGWOOD TRAINING DEPOT RINGWOOD VIC 2.309 EAST SANDRINGHAM TRAINING DEPOT SANDRINGHAM VIC 0.812 SOMME BARRACKS SHEPPARTON VIC 0.721 VICTORIA BARRACKS SOUTHBANK VIC 5.716 ST KILDA TRAINING DEPOT ST KILDA VIC 0.962 SUNSHINE TRAINING DEPOT SUNSHINE VIC 1.250 SURREY HILLS TRAINING DEPOT SURREY HILLS VIC 1.092 SWAN HILL ARES DEPOT SWAN HILL VIC 0.990
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23148 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) WANGARATTA ARES DEPOT WANGARATTA VIC 1.868 WARRNAMBOOL TRAINING DEPOT WARRNAMBOOL VIC 1.007 SIMPSON BARRACKS WATSONIA VIC 131.600 FIRING RANGE WERRIBBEE VIC 242.000 FORT GELLIBRAND WILLIAMSTOWN VIC 2.845 ALBANY TRAINING DEPOT ALBANY WA 0.783 ALBURY TRAINING DEPOT ALBANY WA 0.748 BINDOON TRAINING AREA BINDOON WA 19,529.752 BINDOON - TRAINING FACILITY BINDOON WA 35.500 NORFORCE DEPOT BROOME WA 0.00* RADAR STATION BULLSBROOK WA 3.278 HF RECEIVER STATION BULLSBROOK WA 1,074.250 OPERATION SITE BULLSBROOK WA 4.192 RAAF BASE PEARCE BULLSBROOK WA 963.650 BORE SITES BULLSBROOK WA 40.469 WATER TANK SITE BULLSBROOK WA 1.055 WATER TREATMENT SITE BULLSBROOK WA 1.558 AERIAL FARM BULLSBROOK WA 46.926 BULLSBROOK VACANT LAND - PEARCE BULLSBROOK WA 31.488 BULLSBROOK PUMPING STN - PEARCE BULLSBROOK WA 2.216 BUNBURY TRAINING DEPOT BUNBURY WA 0.798 CARNARVON ARES DEPOT CARNARVON WA 0.00* COMMUNICATIONS STATION CAVERSHAM WA 250.355 NORFORCE DEPOT DERBY WA 0.304 YAMPI SOUND TRAINING AREA DERBY WA 566,000.000 RAAF BASE CURTIN DERBY WA 25,879.443 SMALL CRAFT BASE EAST WA 0.083 FREMANTLE LEEUWIN BARRACKS EAST WA 15.397 FREMANTLE NAVAL H/F RECEIVING STATION EXMOUTH WA 3,829.000 EXMOUTH ADMIN & HF EXMOUTH WA 2,030.307 TRANSMITTING VLF TRANSMITTER STATION EXMOUTH WA 2,229.000 OIL FUEL INSTALLATION FREMANTLE WA 5.357 ARTILLERY BARRACKS FREMANTLE WA 3.868 HMAS STIRLING GARDEN WA 1,092.650 ISLAND GERALDTON TRAINING DEPOT GERALDTON WA 0.678 PEARCE (Tacan Site) GIN GIN WA 0.00* SATELLITE AIRFIELD GINGIN WA 706.986 BUSHMEAD RIFLE RANGE HELENA WA 260.000 VALLEY BUSHMEAD TRAINING AREA HELENA WA 40.000 VALLEY KALGOORLIE TRAINING DEPOT KALGOORLIE WA 0.202 KALGOORLIE RIFLE RANGE KALGOORLIE WA 181.299 IRWIN BARRACKS KARRAKATTA WA 61.177
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23149
OWNED ESTATE – AT 25 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE SIZE (HA) KARRATHA TRAINING DEPOT KARRATHA WA 2.857 KATANNING TRAINING DEPOT KATANNING WA 0.806 DSD GERALDTON KONJARIENA WA 444.856 NORFORCE DEPOT KUNUNURRA WA 0.00* RAAF BASE LEARMONTH LEARMONTH WA 2,550.555 AIR WEAPONS RANGE LEARMONTH WA 18,781.000 TRANSMITTER SITE LEARMONTH WA 342.265 JINDALEE RADAR STATION LEONORA WA 11,000.000 NEWMAN TRAINING DEPOT NEWMAN WA 1.086 NORTHAM RIFLE RANGE NORTHAM WA 512.081 NORTHAM CAMP NORTHAM WA 201.955 PORT HEDLAND TRAINING DEPOT PORT HEDLAND WA 0.00* PALMER BARRACKS SOUTH WA 64.879 GUILDFORD CAMBPELL BARRACKS SWANBOURNE WA 59.909 SWANBOURNE RIFLE RANGE SWANBOURNE WA 140.103 TOM PRICE TRAINING DEPOT TOM PRICE WA 1.053 RADAR SITE - TWIN TANKS EXMOUTH TWIN TANKS WA 0.265 RADAR SITE - VLAMING HEAD VLAMING HEAD WA 0.961 EXMOUTH Note: 0.00* indicates not subject to review.
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM BARTON BARTON ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 486 CURRENT BARTON BARTON ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 3,521 CURRENT BRUCE (1) BRUCE ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 66 CURRENT BRUCE (2) BRUCE ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,966 CURRENT BRUCE BRUCE ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 503 CURRENT BRUCE BRUCE ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 785 CURRENT CAMPBELL PARK CAMPBELL ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 41,671 CURRENT CANBERRA CANBERRA ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 281 CURRENT CANBERRA CANBERRA ACT SPECIAL PURPOSE 4,880 CURRENT CANBERRA CANBERRA ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 742 CURRENT DEAKIN DEAKIN ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 401 CURRENT DEAKIN DEAKIN ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,560 CURRENT DEAKIN OFFICES (1) DEAKIN ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 8,810 CURRENT DEAKIN OFFICES (2) DEAKIN ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 109 CURRENT DEAKIN DEAKIN ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 843 CURRENT FYSHWICK FYSHWICK ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,037 CURRENT FYSHWICK FYSHWICK ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 2,156 CURRENT FYSHWICK FYSHWICK ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 777 CURRENT FYSHWICK FYSHWICK ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,988 CURRENT GREENWAY GREENWAY ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 4,966 CURRENT MITCHELL MITCHELL ACT STORAGE 1,000 CURRENT MITCHELL MITCHELL ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,299 CURRENT
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23150 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM MT GININI MT GININI ACT LAND 0.00* CURRENT PIALLIGO PIALLAGO ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,471 CURRENT CANBERRA PIALLAGO ACT OTHER USE - HANGER 0.00* CURRENT CANBERRA PIALLAGO ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 8,654 CURRENT FAIRBURN RAAF PIALLAGO ACT OTHER USE 309 CURRENT DEMOUNTABLE BUILDING QUEANBEYAN QUEANBEYAN ACT STORAGE 396 CURRENT QUEANBEYAN QUEANBEYAN ACT STORAGE 7,100 CURRENT TURNER TURNER ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 7,371 CURRENT WESTON WESTON ACT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT ADAMSTOWN ADAMSTOWN NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 549 CURRENT ALEXANDRIA ALEXANDRIA NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,663 CURRENT ARMIDALE ARMIDALE NSW LAND 0.00* CURRENT ARMIDALE ARMIDALE NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT ARNCLIFFE TS ARNCLIFFE NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SIRIUS ARNCLIFFE TS ARNCLIFFE NSW LAND 1,500 PERIODIC SIRIUS BALMORAL HMAS BALMORAL NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 4,490 CURRENT PENGUIN BATHURST KELSO BATHURST NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC BEXLEY BEXLEY NSW OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC BONDI BEACH BONDI BEACH NSW RESIDENTIAL 0.00* CURRENT BOTANY BOTANY NSW LAND 1,840 PERIODIC BRIGHTON LE BRIGHTON LE NSW OFFICE/ADMIN - CADET 0.00* CURRENT SANDS TS SIRIUS SANDS UNIT CAMBEWARRA CAMBEWARRA NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC MOUNTAIN CAMDEN AIRPORT CAMDEN NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 2,991 CURRENT CASULA CASULA NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC COFFS HARBOUR COFFS NSW LAND 5,804 PERIODIC HARBOUR COOGEE COOGEE NSW RESIDENTIAL 0.00* CURRENT COOMA COOMA NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,425 CURRENT CRONULLA CRONULLA NSW OFFICE/ADMIN CADET UNIT 0.00* PERIODIC DAIRYVILLE RIFLE DAIRYVILLE NSW LAND 56,000 CURRENT RANGE EDEN STATE EDEN NSW LAND - ACCESS WHALF 0.00* CURRENT FOREST TWOFOLD BAY (1) EDEN ACCESS EDEN NSW LAND - SEA BED 0.00* PERIODIC ROAD TWOFOLD BAY (2) EDEN ACCESS EDEN NSW LAND - ROAD 0.00* PERIODIC ROAD TWOFOLD BAY (3) EVANS HEAD BOMB EVANS HEAD NSW LAND 5,010,000 PERIODIC GUNNERY RANGE
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23151
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM GARDEN ISLAND GARDEN NSW LAND 43,434 CURRENT PORT JACKSON ISLAND GARDEN ISLAND GARDEN NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC ISLAND GEORGES HEIGHTS GEORGES NSW LAND 690 CURRENT CHOWDER BAY (1) HEIGHTS GEORGES HEIGHTS GEORGES NSW LAND 380 PERIODIC CHOWDER BAY (2) HEIGHTS GOSFORD TS GOSFORD NSW OTHER USE 715 PERIODIC HAWKESBURY HYAMS BEACH HYAMS BEACH NSW LAND 222 PERIODIC JERVIS BAY HMAS JERVIS BAY NSW LAND - SEA BED 0.00* PERIODIC CRESWELL SEABED JERVIS BAY WHARF JERVIS BAY NSW LAND 72 PERIODIC FACILITIES KINGS TABLELAND KINGS NSW OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC REPEATER STATION TABLELAND LAKE ILLAWARRA LAKE NSW OTHER USE - CADET UNIT 656 CURRENT (1) ILLAWARRA LAKE ILLAWARRA LAKE NSW OTHER USE - CADET UNIT 0.00* CURRENT (2) ILLAWARRA LIVERPOOL LIVERPOOL NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 950 CURRENT LONDONDERRY LONDONDERRY NSW LAND 2,510,000 PERIODIC PARACHUTE DROP ZONE MANLY NAVAL MANLY NSW LAND 278 PERIODIC RESERVE CADETS MARRANGAROO MARRANGARO NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC STATE FOREST O MOOREBANK MOOREBANK NSW STORAGE 238,876 CURRENT MORUNDAH MORUNDAH NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC BUCKINGBONG FOREST MOUNT HEATON MOUNT NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC REPEATER STATION HEATON MOUNT MOUNT NSW LAND 1,212 PERIODIC JERRABOMBERRA JERRABOMBER RA MT DOWE MT DOWE NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC MT HEATON MT HEATON NSW LAND 0.00* CURRENT NIMBIN MT NARDI MT NARDI NSW LAND 0.00* CURRENT (1) NIMBIN MT NARDI MT NARDI NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC (2) MULWALA ROAD MULWALA NSW OTHER USE 19,000 PERIODIC LICENCE MYAMBAT ARMY MYAMBAT NSW LAND 210 PERIODIC BASE
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23152 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM NIELSEN PARK NEILSEN PARK NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SHARK ISLAND NEUTRAL BAY NEUTRAL BAY NSW LAND 3,385 PERIODIC HMAS PLATYPUS FORE (1) NEUTRAL BAY NEUTRAL BAY NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC HMAS PLATYPUS FORE (2) NOWRA NOWRA NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 293 CURRENT PENRITH (1) PENRITH NSW LAND - RAIL SPURS 0.00* PERIODIC PENRITH (2) PENRITH NSW LAND - RAIL SPURS 0.00* PERIODIC PENRITH (3) PENRITH NSW LAND - RAIL SPURS 0.00* PERIODIC POINT LOOKOUT POINT NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC REPEATER STATION LOOKOUT PORT JACKSON PORT JACKSON NSW LAND 1,313 PERIODIC SPECTACLE ISLAND (1) PORT JACKSON PORT JACKSON NSW LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SPECTACLE ISLAND (2) PORT MACQUARIE PORT NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 270 PERIODIC MACQUARIE PYRMONT REVY PYRMONT NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 4,843 CURRENT RICHMOND RICHMOND NSW LAND 15 CURRENT SOUTH WINDSOR SOUTH NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 845 CURRENT WINDSOR SYDNEY SYDNEY NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 24,141 CURRENT SOUTH HEAD SYDNEY NSW MISCELLANEOUS 0.00* PERIODIC TAMWORTH TAMWORTH NSW OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC AIRPORT TAMWORTH TAMWORTH NSW OTHER USE 606 PERIODIC AIRPORT TAMWORTH (1) TAMWORTH NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 165 CURRENT TAMWORTH (2) TAMWORTH NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 6 CURRENT TERERA TERERA NSW LAND 100 CURRENT TERRANORA TS TERRANORA NSW LAND 2,800 PERIODIC VAMPIRE NAVAL RESERVE FOREST HILL RAAF WAGGA NSW MIXED USE PROPERTY - 0.00* PERIODIC AERODROME (1) WAGGA WATER PIPES FOREST HILL RAAF WAGGA NSW MIXED USE PROPERTY - 0.00* PERIODIC AERODROME (2) WAGGA WATER PIPES FOREST HILL RAAF WAGGA NSW MIXED USE PROPERTY - 0.00* PERIODIC AERODROME (3) WAGGA STATE RAIL FOREST HILL RAAF WAGGA NSW MIXED USE PROPERTY - 0.00* PERIODIC AERODROME (4) WAGGA BORE HOLE FOREST HILL RAAF WAGGA NSW MIXED USE PROPERTY 200 CURRENT AERODROME (5) WAGGA
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23153
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM WAGGA WAGGA WAGGA NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 205 PERIODIC BAYLISS ST BEST WAGGA PL WAGGA WAGGA WAGGA NSW COMMERCIAL OFFICE 249 CURRENT WAGGA WAVERTON HMAS WAVERTON NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 9,913 CURRENT WATERHEN WAVERTON HMAS WAVERTON NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 31,700 CURRENT WATERHEN WILLIAMTOWN WILLIAMTOWN NSW LAND 100 CURRENT RAAF PARACHUTE DROP WILLIAMTOWN NSW LAND 2,674,000 PERIODIC ZONE (1) PARACHUTE DROP WILLIAMTOWN NSW LAND 172,400 PERIODIC ZONE (2) WOLLONGONG WOLLONGONG NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 3,907 CURRENT WOLLONGONG WOLLONGONG NSW OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 355 CURRENT WOOLWICH WOOLWICH NSW MISCELLANEOUS 8 PERIODIC WOOLWICH WOOLWICH NSW MISCELLANEOUS 127 CURRENT ALICE SPRINGS ALICE SPRINGS NT LAND 10,820 CURRENT BATHURST ISLAND BATHURST NT LAND 0.00* PERIODIC NORFORCE DEPOT ISLAND BORROLOOLA BORROLOOLA NT LAND 13,000 PERIODIC DARWIN DARWIN NT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 410 PERIODIC DARWIN AIR DARWIN NT LAND 6,307 PERIODIC TRAFFIC CONTROL BUILDING DURACK DURACK NT OTHER USE 1,419 CURRENT ELLIOTT ELLIOTT NT OTHER USE 9,000 CURRENT GROOTE EYLANDT GROOTE NT LAND 0.00* CURRENT JORN SITE EYLANDT GROOTE EYLANDT GROOTE NT LAND 0.00* CURRENT LAND EYLANDT BERRIMAH BERRIMAH NT STORAGE 83,100 CURRENT JABIRU NORFORCE JABIRU NT OTHER USE 400 CURRENT KATHERINE KATHERINE NT SPECIAL PURPOSE 100 CURRENT TINDAL MOUNT GOODWIN MOUNT NT LAND 0.00* CURRENT PORT KEATS GOODWIN RADAR NHULUNBUY JORN NHULUNBUY NT LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SITE PALMERSTON PALMERSTON NT LAND 0.00* CURRENT CLOSE TRAINING AREA PORT KEATS PORT KEATS NT LAND 2,500 PERIODIC RIMBITJA IS PART RIMBITJA NT LAND 2,000 PERIODIC NT ISLAND
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23154 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM TENNANT CREEK TENNANT NT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 84 PERIODIC CREEK TIMBER CREEK TIMBER CREEK NT LAND 8,142 CURRENT WINNELLIE WINNELLIE NT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 4,118 CURRENT WINNELLIE WINNELLIE NT OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 721 CURRENT WINNELLIE WINNELLIE NT OTHER USE 11,845 CURRENT WINNELLIE WINNELLIE NT INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY 26,900 CURRENT ARCHERFIELD AIR ARCHERFIELD QLD OTHER USE 2,137 CURRENT TRAINING CORPS ASHMORE ASHMORE QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT TRAINING DEPOT ATHERTON RIFLE ATHERTON QLD LAND 2,476,764 CURRENT RANGE BAMAGA BAMAGA QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC BLACKWATER BLACKWATER QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 7,190 PERIODIC ARMY RESERVE DEPOT BOIGU ISLAND BOIGU ISLAND QLD LAND 792 PERIODIC BRISBANE BRISBANE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 291 CURRENT BULIMBA ARMY BULIMBA QLD LAND 2,600 CURRENT WHARF LAND BURNETT HEADS BURNETT QLD OTHER USE 8,322 PERIODIC NAVAL RES HEADS CADETS CAIRNS NAVAL CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC RESERVE CADETS CAIRNS HMAS CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 35,749 PERIODIC CAIRNS NAVAL BASE CAIRNS CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 19 CURRENT CAIRNS CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 369 CURRENT CAIRNS AIRPORT CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 924 CURRENT CAIRNS AIRPORT CAIRNS QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 79 CURRENT CANUNGRA LAND CANUNGRA QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT WARFARE CENTRE CHARTERS TOWERS CHARTERS QLD LAND 3,897 CURRENT ARMY RES DEPOT TOWERS CLEVEDON CLEVEDON QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 2,375,800 PERIODIC REMOTE RECV STATION (1) CLEVEDON CLEVEDON QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 97,000 CURRENT REMOTE RECV STATION (2) CLEVEDON CLEVEDON QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 2,260,000 PERIODIC REMOTE RECV STATION (3) CLONCURRY CLONCURRY QLD STORAGE 0.00* PERIODIC AERODROME COOLANGATTA COOLANGATTA QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 102 CURRENT
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23155
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM CORINDA AIR CORINDA QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 700 PERIODIC TRAINING CORPS EMERALD UNIT B EMERALD QLD OTHER USE 313 CURRENT GARBUTT RAAF GARBUTT QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC BASE GLAMORGANVALE GLAMORGANV QLD LAND 100 PERIODIC ILS SITE ALE HALIFAX BAY HALIFAX BAY QLD LAND 2,678,700 PERIODIC BOMBING RANGE TOWNSVILLE HERVEY RANGE QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT TOWNSVILLE HERVEY RANGE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC HERVEY RANGE HORN ISLAND JORN HORN ISLAND QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SITE INNISFAIL ARMY INNISFAIL QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 3,035 CURRENT RESERVE DEPOT KOWANYAMA KOWANYAMA QLD OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC LAWES GATTON LAWES QLD LAND 7,655 PERIODIC AGRICULTURAL COLL MAIN BEACH MAIN BEACH QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC NAVAL RES CADETS MITCHELTON MITCHELTON QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 380 CURRENT MOUNT ISA MOUNT ISA QLD OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC MT GLORIOUS MT GLORIOUS QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 0.00* PERIODIC REPEATER STATION MT ISA BARKLY MT ISA QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC HIGHWAY MT MOWBULLAN MT QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 0.00* PERIODIC REPEATER STATION MOWBULLAN MT PARKER MT PARKER QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 0.00* CURRENT MT STUART MT STUART QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 0.00* PERIODIC MT STUART (1) MT STUART QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT MT STUART MICRO MT STUART QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT LINK FACILITY (2) MT TABLETOP MT TABLETOP QLD SPECIAL PURPOSE 0.00* PERIODIC RADAR STATION SITE NORMANTON JORN NORMANTON QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SITE NORTH MACKAY (1) NORTH QLD OTHER USE 2,000 CURRENT MACKAY NORTH MACKAY (2) NORTH QLD OTHER USE 2,000 CURRENT MACKAY PORMPURAAW PORMPURAAW QLD OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC QUEERAH QUEERAH QLD DEPT NATURAL RESOURCES 0.00* CURRENT EXPLOSIVE LAND ACCESS MAGAZINE
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23156 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM QUEERAH QUEERAH QLD DEPT NATURAL RESOURCES 0.00* CURRENT EXPLOSIVE LAND ACCESS MAGAZINE QUEERAH QUEERAH QLD CAIRNS COUNCIL LAND 0.00* CURRENT EXPLOSIVE ACCESS MAGAZINE QUEERAH QUEERAH QLD CAIRNS PT AUTHORITY 0.00* CURRENT EXPLOSIVE LAND ACCESS MAGAZINE REDCLIFFE TRAIN REDCLIFFE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 8,802 CURRENT DEP NATHAN RD ROCKHAMPTON ROCKHAMPTON QLD LAND 9,200 CURRENT AIRPORT SOUTH SOUTH QLD LAND 25 CURRENT TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE INCITEC PIVOT SOUTH QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT TOWNSVILLE STAFFORD NAVAL STAFFORD QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC RESERVE CADETS THURSDAY ISLAND THURSDAY QLD OTHER USE 400 PERIODIC ISLAND THURSDAY IS THURSDAY QLD OTHER USE 749 CURRENT BERTHING ISLAND FACILITY TOOWOOMBA TOOWOOMBA QLD COMMERCIAL OFFICE 16 CURRENT TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 938 PERIODIC NAVAL RES CADETS TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT RADAR SITE TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 99 CURRENT TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OTHER USE 3,238 PERIODIC CHILD CARE CENTRE TOWNSVILLE CGC TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 310 CURRENT (1) TOWNSVILLE CGC TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,164 CURRENT (2) TOWNSVILLE CGC TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 235 CURRENT (3) TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT GREENVALE RAIL LINE TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 370 CURRENT TOWNSVILLE TEN TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 3,349 CURRENT TERM REGIMENT TOWNSVILLE TOWNSVILLE QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 12 CURRENT JAMES COOK UNI
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23157
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM TOWNSVILLE MT TOWNSVILLE QLD OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT STUART TULLY JARRA TULLY QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT CREEK TULLY DOWNEY TULLY QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC CREEK TULLY MCNAMEE TULLY QLD OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT CREEK WANGETTI RIFLE WANGETTI QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RANGE WEIPA KERR POINT WEIPA QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT DRIVE WEIPA SCHERGER WEIPA QLD LAND 0.00* CURRENT RAAF BASE (1) WEIPA SCHERGER WEIPA QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RAAF BASE (2) WEIPA SCHERGER WEIPA QLD LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RAAF BASE (3) ADELAIDE (1) ADELAIDE SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 2,289 CURRENT ADELAIDE (2) ADELAIDE SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT BIRKENHEAD BIRKENHEAD SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT CULTANA ARMY CULTANA SA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC EDINBURGH PARKS EDINBURGH SA OTHER USE 38,000 CURRENT PARKS EDINBURGH PARKS EDINBURGH SA OTHER USE 12,820 CURRENT PARKS GAWLER RIVER GAWLER RIVER SA LAND 100 CURRENT LINCOLN GAP LINCOLN GAP SA LAND 0.00* CURRENT LONSDALE LONSDALE SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,072 CURRENT MOUNT GAMBIER MOUNT SA OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT GAMBIER MOUNT GAMBIER MOUNT SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT AIRPORT GAMBIER MT BROWN MT BROWN SA LAND REPEATER STATION 0.00* CURRENT WOOLUNDUN (1) MT BROWN MT BROWN SA LAND REPEATER STATION 0.00* CURRENT WOOLUNDUN (2) MT BROWN MT BROWN SA LAND REPEATER STATION 0.00* CURRENT WOOLUNDUN (3) MT BROWN MT BROWN SA LAND REPEATER STATION 0.00* PERIODIC WOOLUNDUN (4) MT LOFTY MT LOFTY SA LAND 0.00* CURRENT REPEATER STATION PENFIELD PT PENFIELD SA LAND 100 CURRENT PORT AUGUSTA PORT AUGUSTA SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT PORT AUGUSTA PORT AUGUSTA SA LAND 0.00* CURRENT PORT LINCOLN PORT LINCOLN SA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT NAVY CADETS
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23158 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM PORT LINCOLN PORT LINCOLN SA LAND 0.00* CURRENT THISTLE ISLAND PRICE CHEETHAM PRICE SA LAND 210 CURRENT SALT WORKS VICTOR HARBOUR VICTOR SA OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT HARBOUR WHYALLA CADET WHYALLA SA OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT DEPOT 1 WHYALLA CADET WHYALLA SA OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT DEPOT 2 BEECHFORD BEECHFORD TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC TRAINING AREA BEECHFORD BEECHFORD TAS LAND 0.00* CURRENT BEECHFORD BEECHFORD TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC MILITARY AREA BUCKLAND (1) BUCKLAND TAS LAND 0.00* CURRENT BUCKLAND (2) BUCKLAND TAS LAND 0.00* CURRENT BUCKLANDS 'A' BUCKLAND TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC ROAD (1) BUCKLANDS 'A' BUCKLAND TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC ROAD (2) BUCKLAND ARMY BUCKLAND TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC TRAINING AREA BURNIE TS EMU BURNIE TAS OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT DEVONPORT DEVONPORT TAS OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT DEVONPORT DEVONPORT TAS OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT GEORGE TOWN GEORGE TOWN TAS OTHER USE 275 CURRENT HOBART QUEENS HOBART TAS LAND 350 CURRENT DOMAIN HOBART HMAS HOBART TAS LAND - STORE 404 CURRENT HUON QUEENS DOMAIN (1) HOBART HMAS HOBART TAS LAND - BOAT SHED & RAMP 0.00* CURRENT HUON QUEENS DOMAIN (2) HOBART HMAS HOBART TAS LAND - BOAT RAMP 0.00* CURRENT HUON QUEENS EXTENSION DOMAIN (3) LAUNCESTON LAUNCESTON TAS LAND 720 CURRENT ROYAL PARK PONTVILLE (1) PONTVILLE TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC PONTVILLE (2) PONTVILLE TAS LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SOUTH ARM SOUTH ARM TAS LAND 0.00* CURRENT LAUNCHING RAMP ULVERSTONE MAIN ULVERSTONE TAS OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT WHARF SHED ALBURY ALBURY VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 363 CURRENT BALLARAT BALLARAT VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 622 PERIODIC
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23159
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - WATER 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (1) PIPES BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - WATER 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (2) PIPES BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - WATER 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (3) PIPES BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - WATER 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (4) PIPES BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - WATER 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (5) PIPES BANDIANA ARMY BANDIANA VIC LAND ACCESS - PRIVATE 0.00* PERIODIC CAMP (6) OWNER BENALLA ARMY BENALLA VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 89 CURRENT CADETS BONEGILLA ARMY BONEGILLA VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 362 PERIODIC CAMP BUNDOORA BUNDOORA VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 27 PERIODIC DANDENONG DANDENONG VIC STORAGE 3,329 CURRENT EPPING COOPER EPPING VIC LAND 0.00* CURRENT STREET FOOTSCRAY AIR FOOTSCRAY VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 706 PERIODIC CORP FRANKSTON CADET FRANKSTON VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 7,460 PERIODIC TRAINING DEPOT FRANKSTON FRANKSTON VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 539 PERIODIC LAVERTON RAAF LAVERTON VIC LAND - ROADS OR WATER 0.00* CURRENT WILLIAMS (1) PIPES LAVERTON RAAF LAVERTON VIC LAND - ROADS OR WATER 0.00* CURRENT WILLIAMS (2) PIPES LAVERTON RAAF LAVERTON VIC LAND - ROADS OR WATER 0.00* CURRENT WILLIAMS (3) PIPES LAVERTON RAAF LAVERTON VIC LAND - ROADS OR WATER 0.00* CURRENT WILLIAMS (4) PIPES LAVERTON LAVERTON VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,939 CURRENT NORTH MACLEOD MACLEOD VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 203 CURRENT MANGALORE MANGALORE VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 510 PERIODIC AMMUNITION DEPOT MELBOURNE MELBOURNE VIC CARPARK 0.00* PERIODIC MELBOURNE MELBOURNE VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 18,792 CURRENT MELBOURNE MELBOURNE VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 700 CURRENT MILDURA AIR MILDURA VIC LAND 0.00* PERIODIC FORCE CADETS NEWTOWN NEWTOWN VIC OTHER USE 2,045 PERIODIC POINT COOK RAAF POINT COOK VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC POINT COOK RAAF POINT COOK VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 344 CURRENT POINT WILSON POINT WILSON VIC LAND 0.00* PERIODIC
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23160 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM PORT MELBOURNE PORT VIC LAND 0.00* PERIODIC MELBOURNE PORTLAND NAVY PORTLAND VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 940 CURRENT CADETS PUCKAPUNYAL PUCKAPUNYAL VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC ARMY CAMP PUCKAPUNYAL PUCKAPUNYAL VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC ARMY CAMP SOUTH SOUTH VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,128 CURRENT MELBOURNE MELBOURNE STAWELL SES SITE STAWELL VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC WILLIAMSTOWN WILLIAMSTOW VIC LAND 2,230 PERIODIC N WILIAMSTOWN WILLIAMSTOW VIC OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 3,320 PERIODIC N WILLIAMSTOWN WILLIAMSTOW VIC LAND 0.00* PERIODIC N ALBANY TS ALBANY WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 100 PERIODIC VANCOUVER ALBANY NAVY ALBANY WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 15 CURRENT OFFICE BULLSBROOK BULLSBROOK WA LAND 0.00* CURRENT OBSTRUCTION LIGHT 3 BULLSBROOK BULLSBROOK WA OTHER USE 100 CURRENT BULLSBROOK BULLSBROOK WA LAND 0.00* CURRENT OBSTRUCTION LIGHT1 BULLSBROOK BULLSBROOK WA LAND 100 PERIODIC OBSTRUCTION LIGHT 2 CANNINGTON CANNINGTON WA OTHER USE 363 CURRENT CAPEL CAPEL WA LAND 1,480,000 PERIODIC CARNARVON CARNARVON WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC BROWN RANGE NTL SITE CHRISTMAS CHRISTMAS WA LAND 0.00* CURRENT ISLAND NAVY ISLAND HANGAR COCOS (KEELING) COCOS WA LAND 0.00* CURRENT (KEELING) ISLAND COCOS ISLAND COCOS ISLAND WA STORAGE 0.00* CURRENT COCOS ISLAND COCOS ISLAND WA LAND 600 CURRENT EAST FREMANTLE EAST WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC FREMANTLE EAST FREMANTLE EAST WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* CURRENT TS PERTH FREMANTLE FREMANTLE FREMANTLE WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23161
LEASED – AT 18 MARCH 2004 PROPERTY NAME SUBURB STATE PROPERTY CATEGORY NET LEASE LETABLE STATUS APPROX REA SQM GERALDTON TS GERALDTON WA LAND 274 PERIODIC MORROW GINGIN REMOTE GINGIN WA OTHER USE 100 CURRENT ILS OUTER MARKER GINGIN REMOTE GINGIN WA OTHER USE 100 CURRENT ILS OUTER MARKER GINGIN GINGIN WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC GREENOUGH RIFLE GREENOUGH WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RANGE GREENOUGH RIFLE GREENOUGH WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RANGE JOONDALUP JOONDALUP WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 1,012 CURRENT KALGOORLIE LOT KALGOORLIE WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 0.00* PERIODIC 3001 BOULDER KALUMBURU JORN KALUMBURU WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC SITE LANCELIN AIR LANCELIN WA OTHER USE 0.00* CURRENT SAFETY MARKER STH LANCELIN LANCELIN WA LAND 5,927 CURRENT GUNNERY RANGE LANCELIN VEHICLE LANCELIN WA LAND 5,000 PERIODIC LOADING RAMP LANDSDALE LANDSDALE WA OTHER USE 6,586 PERIODIC MT KALAMUNDA MT WA OTHER USE 0.00* PERIODIC RADAR STAT SITE KALAMUNDA MUCHEA BOMBING MUCHEA WA LAND 0.00* PERIODIC RANGE RESERVE MUCHEA MUCHEA WA OTHER USE 300 PERIODIC PANNAWONICA PANNAWONICA WA RESIDENTIAL 854 PERIODIC PERTH PERTH WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 2,392 PERIODIC ROCKINGHAM ROCKINGHAM WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 422 PERIODIC ROCKINGHAM ROCKINGHAM WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 762 CURRENT ROCKINGHAM ROCKINGHAM WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 2,028 CURRENT ROCKINGHAM ROCKINGHAM WA MIXED USE PROPERTY 1,300 CURRENT SWANBOURNE SWANBOURNE WA OFFICE/ADMINISTRATION 211 PERIODIC WYNDHAM WYNDHAM WA LAND 7,200 CURRENT IONOSPHERIC SOUNDER Note 1: 0.00* indicates areas have not been subject to the review under lease arrangements. Note 2: Periodic = lease on holdover, that is month to month term. Defence: Shoalwater Bay (Question No. 2700) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 11 March 2004:
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23162 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(1) Has the department or any of its agencies acquired land in the vicinity of Shoalwater Bay, Queensland in the past 12 months; if so: (a) how much land was acquired; and (b) for what purpose. (2) Has there been any communication between the governments of the United States of America (US) and Australia about the possibility of establishing a US Base at Shoalwater Bay. (3) Has there been any consideration given to expanding or changing the use of the existing facilities at Shoalwater Bay; if so, what proposals have been considered or are under consideration. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) No. (2) There have been no requests from the United States (US) Government for the provision of a permanent base for US military personnel, either at Shoalwater Bay, or elsewhere in Australia. Defence is currently examining with the US a proposal to enhance cooperation in joint training through a Joint Training Concept scoping study. Discussions with the US Department of Defense are continuing, and the scoping study is expected to be completed later this year. However, the permanent basing of US military personnel in Australia is an issue not currently under consideration. (3) Yes. Defence is currently considering a proposal to redevelop one of the Australian Defence Force’s skeleton accommodation camps (Camp Growl) in Shoalwater Bay Training Area. Defence has also commenced a Review of Australian Training Areas, including Shoalwater Bay, which is expected to be completed late this year. Depending on the options recommended in the Review, further consideration may be given to expanding and/or changing the use of existing facilities at Shoalwater Bay, if Australian Defence Force requirements merit such action. Defence: Lancelin Training Area (Question No. 2704) Senator Nettle asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 16 March 2004: (1) Which Western Australian government departments and local government authorities are currently engaged with the department to identify potential issues affecting possible sites for a new Army training area in Western Australia to replace the area the Army is currently using near Lancelin. (2) (a) Who are the members of the Department of Defence / Western Australian Government working group; and (b) how long has it been in existence. (3) What is the role of Mr Mark South, of the Wheatbelt Development Commission, in the choice and assessment of potential sites. (4) Can a copy of the Stage 1 report regarding this process, which was provided to the Minister’s office in December 2003, be provided. (5) Can details be provided of the locations of the six areas in Western Australia that are currently being assessed in relation to their suitability for a new Army training area. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The Western Australian (WA) government departments, agencies and local government authorities currently engaged with Defence in the search for an alternative training area are: • The Department of Premier and Cabinet (Office of Federal Affairs); • The Department of Planning and Infrastructure; • The Department of Environmental Protection; • The Department of Conservation and Land Management;
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23163
• The Department of Industry and Resources; • The Main Roads Department; • The Wheatbelt Development Commission; • Mt Marshall Shire Council; • Yilgarn Shire Council; and • Kondinin Shire Council. Irwin and Three Springs shire councils, and the Mid-West Development Commission, have recently been engaged with the working group, but direct engagement will soon cease. Menzies Shire Council is in the process of being engaged in the search. (2) (a) The standing members of the Joint Defence and WA Government Working Group are: • Mr Jamie Thorburn (Defence – Manager Technical Services; Defence lead); • Mr Mark South (Assistant Director Wheatbelt Development Commission; WA Government lead); • Dr Boyd Wykes (Defence – Environmental Management); • Mr Ron Bennetts (Defence – Regional Planning); • Defence representative for Joint Operations / Range Management; and • Defence-appointed consultant (WB+ Property Solutions). Other Defence and WA Government representatives are co-opted on an as-required basis, including representatives from government departments listed in (1) above. (b) The Working Group was formed in June 2003. (3) Mr South has equal status of co-leader of the Working Group in assessing potential sites. (4) As the report relates to ongoing advice being provided to the Government, a copy of the report cannot be made available. (5) Defence is currently assessing three preferred potential areas for suitability as a new training area. These areas are located: • within the Shire of Mt Marshall; • spanning the Shires of Yilgarn and Menzies; and • spanning the Shires of Yilgarn and Kondinin. Further details of the locations of the preferred potential sites cannot be provided as boundaries for the sites have not been determined at this time. Site boundaries will be addressed following further investigations, including the identification of issues and site constraints. Health: Vision Screening (Question No. 2705) Senator Allison asked the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 18 March 2004: With reference to the study by Dr Sheila Crewther and Dr Patricia Kiely of the Latrobe University’s School of Psychological Science, which indicates that one-quarter of Australian children have some form of vision problem and two-thirds of vision problems go undetected, resulting in under- performance in school: (1) What action has the Government taken, or what action does it intend to take, to overcome this problem in learning.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23164 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
(2) Will the Government promote and/or fund a national program of testing for short-sightedness, long-sightedness and focusing muscle coordination problems. Senator Ian Campbell—The Minister for Health and Ageing has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) This question falls under the responsibility of the Minister for Education, Science and Training. The response to this question will appear in the response to question on notice 2706, provided by the Minister for Education, Science and Training. (2) Vision screening of school children is a responsibility of the State and Territory Governments. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services: Staffing (Question No. 2710) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Af- fairs, upon notice, on 22 March 2004: (1) For the 2002-03 financial year, what were the base and top level salaries of Australian Public Service (APS) level 1-6 officers and equivalent staff employed by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. (2) For the 2003-04 financial year to date, what are the base and top level salaries of APS level 1-6 officers and equivalent staff employed by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS). (3) How many ATSIS staff have had mobile phones issued by ATSIS and what has been the cost for the 2003-04 financial year to date. (4) How many senior ATSIS officers have been supplied with motor vehicles in the 2003-04 financial year and what has been the cost to date. (5) How many management retreats or training programs have ATSIS staff attended in the 2003-04 financial year to date. (6) How many of these management retreats or training programs have been held off-site. (7) In the case of each off-site management retreat or training program: (a) where was the event held; (b) what was the cost of: (i) accommodation, (ii) food, (iii) alcohol, (iv) transport; and (c) what other costs were incurred. (8) (a) How many official overseas trips have ATSIS staff undertaken in the 2003-04 financial year to date; and (b) for each trip: (i) what was the destination, (ii) what was its purpose, and (iii) what was the cost, including a breakdown of accommodation, travel allowances, airfares and other costs. (9) (a) How many official domestic trips have been undertaken by ATSIS staff in the 2003-04 financial year to date; and (b) what was the cost of this domestic travel? (10) How much has ATSIS spent on consultancy services in the 2003-04 financial year to date? Senator Vanstone—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) has provided the following informa- tion: (1) For the 2002-03 financial year, the base and top level salaries of Australian Public Service (APS) level 1-6 officers and equivalent staff employed by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission are provided in the table below.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23165
Classification 1 July 2002 19 June 2003 (pay increase) APS 1 (base) 16 811 (age rate) 17 411 (age rate) APS 1 (top) 28 018 (adult) 29 069 (adult) 30 996 32 127 APS 2 (base) 31 710 32 899 APS 2 (top) 35 162 36 481 APS 3 (base) 36 115 37 469 APS 3 (top) 38 979 38 979 APS 4 (base) 40 251 41 760 APS 4 (top) 43 705 45 334 APS 5 (base) 44 879 46 581 APS 5 (top) 47 607 49 392 APS 6 (base) 48 490 50 308 APS 6 (top) 55 701 57 790 (2) ATSIS staff are paid the same rate as ATSIC staff (See answer to Question 1). (3) During the 2003-04 financial year 364 ATSIS staff were supplied with mobile phones. The cost to date has been $82,057. (4) During the 2003-04 financial year 24 ATSIS SES officers were supplied with motor vehicles as part of their remuneration arrangements. The cost to date has been $249,964. Regional Managers also have access to an office pool vehicle for private use. (5) See attached tables. (6) See attached tables. (7) See attached tables (note: It is not the policy of ATSIC or ATSIS to provide alcohol at training programs or retreats). (8) Official overseas trips undertaken by staff for the 2003-04 financial year are provided in the table below. No Destination Purpose Accommodation Travel Airfare Allowances 1 Montreal Convention on Biological Diversity $1,687.00 $1,270.00 $9,117.94 2 London Indigenous remains meeting $1,114.00 $939.17 $7,592.00 3 Auckland Evaluation Conference $0 $413.61 4 Vancouver The National Non-Reserve Abori- $0 $681.20 $8,523.11 ginal Housing Strategy Conference 5 Egypt Bridging Scales conference $0 $264.00 $0 6 Geneva Working Group Meeting $1,148.54 $1,255.26 $7,198.54 7 Auckland Evaluation Conference $0 $554.72 $1,922.94 8 Geneva UN Conference $0 $3,273.54 $9,743.26 9 Kuala Lumpur Convention on Biological Diversity $1,680.00 $1,216.85 $3,865.79 (9) As at 22 March 2004, a total of 4,577 domestic trips had been undertaken by ATSIS staff at a cost of $3,731,295 (exclusive of GST). (10) As at 22 March 2004, ATSIS had spent $16,780,074 (exclusive of GST) on consultancy services from both administered and departmental resources.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23166 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Learning and Development Corporate Training
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total VET Orienta- Canberra 1,803.25 13,914.11 5,135.00 4,492.60 3.50 25,348.46 tion VET Recall Canberra 1,791.70 11,746.52 6,600.00 480.00 3,774.50 5,885.45 30,278.17 VET Recall Canberra 2,007.40 11,167.03 6,328.00 495.00 3,793.00 6,226.50 30,016.93 SWIM Canberra 1,219.10 734.49 - - - - 1,953.59 Orientation SWIM Canberra 982.10 719.04 - - - - 1,701.14 Orientation Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 3,793.00 Included in 3,793.00 Awareness venue hire Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 200.00 1,710.00 1,910.00 Awareness Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 3,605.00 Included in 100.00 3,705.00 Awareness venue hire 2002/2003 Canberra 629.00 7,235.00 1,526.00 180.00 1,849.00 760.00 11,550.00 ODP Training and Gradua- tion Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 3,793.00 Included in 3,793.00 Awareness venue hire Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 200.00 1,710.00 1,910.00 Awareness Cultural Canberra N/A N/A N/A 3,605.00 Included in 100.00 3,705.00 Awareness venue hire GDP Orienta- Canberra 8,677.75 16,176.76 37,605.00 13,069.00 1,611.40 77,139.91 tion $1,4875* GDP Founda- Batemans 3,454.25 8,564.13 12,185.00 520.00 14,870.40 2,136.80 41,730.58 tions in Bay, NSW Leadership Training
Sub total 20,564.55 70,257.08 69,379.00 16,871.00 45,268.50 16,823.65 238,534.78 This price is the conference package which includes the day catering, room hire and basic equipment. It cannot be separated
Step Up 3 Canberra 5,120.96 13,177.95 13,616.85 560.00 1,329.00 17,952.00 51,756.76 Step Up 4 Canberra 3,526.45 14,993.28 8,282.00 3,394.00 4,180.00 17,952.00 52,327.73 Step Up 5 Canberra 4,161.33 20,605.79 12,004.00 900.00 5,282.00 16,953.20 59,906.32 Step Up 6 Melbourne 3,242.50 14,453.02 11,781.00 3,956.00 4,798.00 TBA 38,230.52
Pathways 6 Canberra 3,968.79 10,140.03 2,552.00 10,565.00 1,329.50 17,952.00 46,507.32 Pathways 7 Canberra 2,945.50 11,007.45 7,546.00 2,960.00 2,552.00 19,629.50 46,640.45 Pathways 8 Darwin 3,950.65 20,794.28 14,375.00 3,937.00 6,210.10 19,591.50 68,858.53 Pathways 9 Canberra 4,226.67 20,757.62 13,936.00 7,985.00 925.00 18,702.20 66,532.49 51,707.40 196,186.50 153,471.85 51,128.00 71,874.10 145,556.05 669,294.90
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23167
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total On site Health & Tamworth 908.50 1,355.16 1,064.50 3,328.16 Safety in ATSIS & ATSIC On Site Sub 908.50 1,355.16 1,064.50 - - 3,328.16 Total
Off site OH&S ACT N/A N/A N/A 1,216.00 1,216.00 OH&S ACT N/A N/A N/A 1,215.00 - - 1,215.00 Off Site Sub - - - 2,431.00 2,431.00 Total SUB Total 908.50 1,355.16 - 3,495.50 - - 5,759.16
On Site Program Darwin 7,021.00 - - - - 7,021.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Adelaide 5,904.00 - - - - 5,904.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Alice 3,553.00 - - - - 3,553.00 Funding Springs Agreement Training Program Melbourne 4,576.00 - - - - 4,576.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Brisbane 7,672.00 - - - - 7,672.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Broome 8,846.00 - - - - 8,846.00 Funding Agreement Training Sub Total 37,572.00 - - - - 37,572.00
OFF SITE Network Canberra 27,630.00 21,467.00 9,562.00 - 373.00 59,032.00 Managers Conference National Beechmont 3,040.00 2,463.00 - - 335.00 5,838.00 Network Planning Conference
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23168 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Program Canberra - - 100.00 423.00 90.00 613.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Canberra 1,626.00 - 200.00 846.00 - 2,672.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Sydney 9,302.00 - 400.00 500.00 - 10,202.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Perth 12,583.00 - 400.00 1,020.00 60.00 14,063.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Cairns 4,713.00 - 300.00 692.00 - 5,705.00 Funding Agreement Training Program Canberra 441.00 - 220.00 1,000.00 - 1,661.00 Funding Agreement Training Sub Total Off 59,335.00 23,930.00 11,182.00 4,481.00 858.00 99,786.00 site
Total On Site 37,572.00 - - - - 37,572.00 Total Off Site 59,335.00 23,930.00 11,182.00 4,481.00 858.00 99,786.00
Total 96,907.00 23,930.00 11,182.00 4,481.00 858.00 137,358.00
Broome
OFF SITE (Course Fees)
Certificate 4 Broome - - - - - 3,125.90 3,125.90 Frontline Management 4 Wheel Broome - - - - - 400.00 400.00 Drive Health & Darwin 426.75 868.52 525.00 - - 363.64 2,183.91 Safety Com- mittees Case Man- Perth - 853.12 - - - 363.64 1,216.76 agement Word and Broome - - - - - 1,467.94 1,467.94 Excel 4 Wheel Broome - - - - - 240.00 240.00 Drive Effective Broome - - - - - 595.00 595.00 People Skills
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23169
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Financial Broome - - - - - 280.00 280.00 Stats for Strategic Use Archives Broome 505.80 699.43 654.00 - - - 1,859.23 Staff Selec- Derby - - - - - 2,380.50 2,380.50 tion Commit- tee Archives Kununurra - - - - - 700.00 700.00 Senior First Kununurra - - - - - 170.00 170.00 Aid Selection Perth 184.55 975.22 188.00 - - - 1,347.77 Panel Case Man- Melbourne 375.00 1,572.46 500.00 - - - 2,447.46 agement Sub OFF- 1,492.10 4,968.75 1,867.00 - - 10,086.62 18,414.47 SITE
ON-SITE Funding Broome ------Process Office Policy & Kununurra ------Advocacy Office Workplace Canberra 939.80 3,914.24 803.00 - - - 5,657.04 Contact Office Officer Sub ON-SITE 939.80 3,914.24 803.00 - - - 5,657.04
Total OFF- 1,492.10 4,968.75 1,867.00 - - 10,086.62 18,414.47 SITE
Total ON- 939.80 3,914.24 803.00 - - - 5,657.04 SITE
Total 2,431.90 8,882.99 2,670.00 - - 10,086.62 24,071.51
Cairns Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total On site SES OHS Canberra Nil 882.18 Nil N/A N/A N/A 882.18 Workshop Commercial Canberra 1,360.40 1,929.70 644.00 N/A N/A 27.70 3,961.80 Officers Work- shop Commercial Canberra 1,908.80 1,566.04 920.00 N/A N/A 27.70 4,422.54 Officers Train- ing Public Sector Canberra 571.65 703.38 282.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,570.88 Conference RCP Training Townsville 677.20 677.42 272.00 N/A N/A 27.70 1,654.32 Finance Branch Canberra 177.30 895.88 Nil N/A N/A 13.85 1,087.03 Conference
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23170 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Access & Townsville 159.65 499.68 67.00 N/A N/A 13.85 740.18 Engagement Workshop Native Title Brisbane 767.25 660.69 412.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,853.79 Funding Process Workshop Accelerated Townsville 349.45 370.61 178.00 N/A N/A 13.85 911.91 Case Manage- ment Admin Law Townsville 454.25 430.01 204.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,102.11 Course Staff Develop- Green Nil Nil Nil N/A N/A 7,132.50 7,132.50 ment Day Island Sub 6,425.95 8,615.59 2,979.00 - - 7,298.70 25,319.24 On
Off Contract Man- Cairns Nil Nil 107.80 N/A N/A 1,815.00 1,922.80 site agement Interview Skills Cairns Nil Nil Nil N/A N/A 4,774.00 4,774.00 & Writing to Selection Criteria Community Cairns Nil Nil Nil N/A 2,660.00 N/A 2,660.00 Development Workshop Community Cairns Nil Nil Nil 120.00 3,330.00 225.00 3,675.00 Development Workshop Sub - - 107.80 120.00 5,990.00 6,814.00 13,031.80 Off
Total 6,425.95 8,615.59 2,979.00 - - 7,298.70 25,319.24 On-site
Total - - 107.80 120.00 5,990.00 6,814.00 13,031.80 Off- Site
Total 6,425.95 8,615.59 3,086.80 120.00 5,990.00 14,112.70 38,351.04
Townsville Regional Office
Course Location TA Airfare Accom Venue Catering Other Total On Site FMA Act Brisbane 607.65 384.41 318.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,323.91 Regional Man- Canberra 637.95 944.28 376.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,972.08 agers Confer- ence Strategic Plan- Canberra Nil 650.65 Nil N/A N/A N/A 650.65 ning Workshop
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23171
Course Location TA Airfare Accom Venue Catering Other Total Home Loans Rockhamp- 601.05 413.78 272.00 N/A N/A 13.85 1,300.68 Training ton Induction to Canberra 944.65 840.88 470.00 N/A N/A 13.85 2,269.38 ATSIS MOUNT ISA REGIONAL OFFICE Report Training Canberra N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A - CDEP Manager Adelaide 602.75 1,603.75 319.00 N/A N/A 13.85 2,539.35 Training Funding Proce- Brisbane N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A - dures Training CEO Workshop Brisbane N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A - Sub On 3,394.05 4,837.75 1,755.00 - - 69.25 10,056.05
Off site CDEP PVA Cairns 1,228.80 601.32 588.00 N/A N/A 55.40 2,473.52 Training Funding Proce- Cairns N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A - dures Training Sub Off 1,228.80 601.32 588.00 - - 55.40 2,473.52
Total On-site 3,394.05 4,837.75 1,755.00 - - 69.25 10,056.05
Total Off-site 1,228.80 601.32 695.80 - - 55.40 2,581.32
Total 4,622.85 5,439.07 2,450.80 - - 124.65 12,637.37
Melbourne Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Off site
CDATA Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 450.00 450.00 Koori Network Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 275.00 275.00 for the Future Commonwealth Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 60.00 60.00 Executive Forum Lunch Time Manage- Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 535.00 535.00 ment Project Man- Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 2,742.00 2,742.00 agement Microsoft Excel Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 238.50 238.50 - Intermediate Excellent Hobart N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 340.00 340.00 Customer Service Skills Getting To and Hobart N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 280.00 280.00 Through the Interview Complex Case Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400.00 400.00 Management First Aid Moonah Tas N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 155.00 155.00 - offsite
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23172 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Business Writ- Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 465.00 465.00 ing Microsoft Word Melbourne N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 1,192.50 1,192.50 - Intermediate Managing Hobart - N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 1,650.00 1,650.00 Policy offsite
Total Off Site 8,783.00 8,783.00 Wagga Wagga Network Regional Office
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total On Site Ministerials & Canberra 133.25 - 92.00 - - - 225.25 Complaints SCO Conference Canberra 269.90 - 276.00 - - - 545.90
Off Site Capacity Building in 218.60 - 184.00 600.00 - - 1,002.60 Communities Pathways Canberra ------Baycorp Internet Sydney 133.25 279.23 130.00 100.00 - - 642.48 Training BDP Training Canberra 853.50 - 940.00 - - - 1,793.50 Cultural Awareness Canberra 870.30 - 1,128.00 - - - 1,998.30 Training Step Up Canberra ------Workforce Planning Canberra 198.40 - 188.00 525.00 - - 911.40 Summit 04/05 Funding Canberra ------Processes Corp Services Work- Canberra ------shop Pathways Canberra ------
Total 403.15 - 368.00 - - - 771.15 On site
Total 2,677.20 279.23 2,570.00 1,225.00 - - 6,348.28 Offsite
Total 3,080.35 279.23 2,938.00 1,225.00 - - 7,119.43 Sydney Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Other Total On site
TRIM ATSIS RO NA NA NA NA NA NIL SYDNEY CDEP Man- CDEP ATSIS 341.14 1,284.14 432.00 NA 2,057.28 ager Training ADELAIDE TM1 Report ATSIS RO 458.40 475.67 934.07 Training SYDNEY Commercial NATIONAL 853.50 502.66 940.00 NA 2,296.16 Officers OFFICE
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23173
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Other Total QATS/LLAS NATIONAL 518.30 597.37 1,115.67 Training OFFICE Customised NATIONAL 196.17 (split with NO) 196.17 Reports OFFICE CSO Work- NATIONAL - - shop OFFICE TRIM COFFS HARBOUR NA NA NA NA - - RO Contract BRISBANE 768.15 954.00 1,722.15 Procedures STATE OFFICE Sub On 3,135.66 2,859.84 2,326.00 8,321.50
Off Site Team Leader- Empl Trng Centre, NA NA NA NA NA - ship 80 Grafton St, Coffs Policy Writ- TAFE, Glenreagh NA NA NA NA NA - ing St, Coffs Harbour AGS Solicitor AGS, 477 Pitt 385.00 385.00 Training Street, Sydney Advocacy PIAC Centre, 46 725.00 725.00 Training York Street, SYDNEY Complaint SOCAP, 2-4 Raw- 1,430.00 1,430.00 Workshop son Place, SYDNEY Health & CPSU, Thomas St, 1,154.65 600.00 522.50 2,277.15 Safety Rep Sydney Contract Citigate Sebel, 409.50 830.18 544.00 1,783.68 Procedures Albion St, Sydney
Sub Off 1,564.15 1,430.18 544.00 3,062.50 6,600.83 * 4,290.02 2,870.00 3,062.50 14,922.33 Perth Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total ON SITE Course Fees
Funding Perth ------Processes GMS/Grant Perth ------Procedures Selection Perth ------Advisory Committee Insovency Perth ------and Banking Law Commerical Canberra 1,901.10 2,334.14 940.00 - - 5,175.24 Officer Training Housing Melbourne 895.00 870.00 500.00 - - 1,370.00 Conference
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23174 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Program Perth 562.50 672.14 576.00 - - 1,810.64 Funding Agreement
On Site 3,358.60 3,876.28 2,016.00 - - - 8,355.88
OFF SITE
Indigenous Perth 449.00 429.46 384.00 - - 1,200.00 2,462.46 APS Career Workshop Senior First Geraldton - - 516.00 516.00 Aid
National Kalgoorlie ------Archieve Training Workplace Canberra ------Contact Officer
Sub Off Site 449.00 429.46 384.00 - - 1,716.00 2,978.46
Sub On Site 3,359.00 3,876.00 2,016.00 - - - 9.251.00
Sub Off Site 449.00 429.00 384.00 - - 1,716.00 2,251.00
Total 3,808.00 4,305.00 2,400.00 - - 1,716.00 12,229.00 Brisbane Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total ON SITE (Course Fees)
AIFIS Travel Brisbane Office ------Conditions of Brisbane Office ------Service Funding Processes Brisbane Office ------GMS/Grant Brisbane Office ------Procedures Occupational Brisbane Office ------Health & Safety Policy & Advo- Brisbane Office ------cacy Policy & Advo- Roma Office ------cacy
Sub Total On Site ------
OFF SITE
Choices for Brisbane - - - - - 900.00 900.00 Leading Others
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23175
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Complex Case Brisbane - - - - - 680.00 680.00 Management Dealing with Brisbane - - - - - 723.00 723.00 Difficult Clients Facilitation Skills Rockhampton - - - - - 1,600.00 1,600.00 First Aid Rockhampton - - - - - 545.00 545.00 First Aid Re- Brisbane - - - - - 100.00 100.00 fresher First Aid Brisbane - - - - - 110.00 110.00 First Aid Roma - - - - - 110.00 110.00 From Manage- Bowral 549.00 509.00 - - - 3,320.00 4,378.00 ment to Leader- ship Funding Processes Brisbane 3,948.00 3,722.00 - - - - 7,670.00 GMS/Grant Brisbane 3,947.52 3,722.00 - - - - 7,669.52 Procedures Minute Taking Brisbane - - - - - 618.18 618.18 Presentation Skills Brisbane - - - - - 680.00 680.00 Microsoft Pub- Brisbane - - - - - 210.00 210.00 lisher Recruitment Adelaide 386.70 398.95 - - - - 785.85 (Train the Trainer) Time Manage- Rockhampton - - - - - 1,600.00 1,600.00 ment Winning that Job Brisbane - - - - - 209.09 209.09 Workplace Asses- Brisbane - - - - - 677.27 677.27 sor and Trainer Workplace Asses- Roma ------sor and Trainer Writing - Business Rockhampton - - - - - 1,600.00 1,600.00 Writing - Public Brisbane - - - - - 709.09 709.09 Sector Writing - Public Brisbane 554.30 302.00 - - - 2,636.36 3,492.46 Sector 35,067.46 Total Off Site 9,385.52 8,653.95 17,027.99 35,067.46 South Australian Cluster
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Total Off site - - Financial Ser- Hindmarsh ------vices Reform sq.0 Empowering GLENUNGA. - 664.00 - - - 2,310.00 2,974.00 2,974.00 Individuals and Families Info gathering for Hilton, ------Indigenous Adelaide People in the Public Service Roles and Re- Nunkuwwar- - - - 50.00 176.00 198.60 424.60 424.60 sponsibilities rin Yunti Conference Rm.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23176 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Total First Aid Camden Pk St - - - - - 160.00 160.00 160.00 John Conflict Resolu- NIA Training - - - - - 308.00 308.00 308.00 tion Room, Suite Conflict Resolu- NIA Training - - - - - 370.00 370.00 370.00 tion Room, Suite Speak Up Abo- Adelaide - - - - - 200.00 200.00 200.00 riginal Family Town Hall Relationships Procurement for Adelaide - - - - - 110.00 110.00 110.00 Greener Govt Town Hall National Housing Adelaide ------Conference Convention Centre Public Sector HR Adelaide - - - - - 1,800.00 1,800.00 1,800.00 Conference Convention Centre Raise the Roof Adelaide - - - - - 577.00 577.00 577.00 Convention Centre Commonwealth Adelaide 119.00 359.00 106.00 - - 878.00 1,462.00 1,462.00 Record Keepers First Aid Train- Ceduna - - - - - 712.50 712.50 712.50 ing Emergency Services Building Family Violence Hawker, 919.00 - 748.00 - - 55.00 1,722.00 1,722.00 South Austra- lia Customer Forum Hilton, ------Adelaide A Corporate Banquet - - - - - 88.00 88.00 88.00 Reform Strategy Room, Ade- laide Festival Centre OH&S Training ACTU 461.00 - 530.00 - - 619.00 1,610.00 1,610.00 Licensing under Hindmarsh sq. - - - - - 315.26 315.26 315.26 the Financial Services Reform
Cybernaughties Adelaide ------Policy Formu- Canberra, 448.00 1,318.00 376.00 - - 27.00 2,169.00 2,169.00 lataion ACT Priority Manager Hindmarsh - - - - - 660.00 660.00 660.00 Bungendore - 2,808.00 2,152.00 Incl in 4,960.00 4,960.00 (E&T Branch) package PASU Confer- Standpipe - 5,209.00 Incl in 385.00 15,842.00 ence Motor Inn 10,248.00 package 15,842.00 (PASU Conf) Sub total Off site 1,947.00 9,121.00 9,773.36 36,464.36 15,397.00 36,464.36
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23177
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Total On site Risk Assessment Adelaide ------Regional Office APS Code of Adelaide - - - - - 215.00 215.00 215.00 Conduct Regional Office Policy & Brief Adelaide - - - - - 1,980.00 1,980.00 1,980.00 Writing Skills Regional Office Powerful Presen- Adelaide - - - - - 1,298.00 1,298.00 1,298.00 tations Regional Office Writing Skills Ceduna - - - - - 900.00 900.00 900.00 (Ceduna) Regional Office Writing Skills Ceduna - - - - - 900.00 900.00 900.00 (Ceduna) Regional Office Healthy at Work Northern - - - - - 1,650.00 1,650.00 1,650.00 (NARO) Areas Regional Office Sub total On site 6,943.00 6,943.00 6,943.00 Total 1,947.00 15,397.00 9,121.00 - 16,716.36 43,407.36 43,407.36 Darwin
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total On site
ATSIS Can- Canberra 603.00 1,109.00 1,712.00 berra Business Development Program ATSIS Can- Canberra 950.00 1,402.00 2,352.00 berra Business Development Program ATSIS Can- Melbourne 1,845.00 1,523.00 3,368.00 berra/Melb Business De- velopment Program ATSIS Cairns Cairns 1,172.00 2,787.00 3,959.00 CDEP ATSIS Darwin Darwin 2,176.00 142.00 2,318.00 Funding Process ATSIS Darwin Darwin 4,269.00 4,269.00 Financial Skills ATSIS Darwin Darwin 2,760.00 2,760.00 Introduction to Accounting
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23178 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Course Location TA Airfares Accom Venue Catering Other Total Sub Total - On 6,746.00 6,963.00 7,029.00 20,738.00 site
Off site
CPSU BLD Darwin 1,050.00 1,050.00 Darwin OH&S CASUARINA Darwin 7,267.00 5,876.00 220.00 - 13,363.00 CLUB/ATSIS Room Darwin SAC/PMP MGM Darwin Darwin 77.00 77.00 Regional Out- look Novotel Darwin Darwin 695.00 695.00 Harassement Novotel Darwin Darwin 700.00 700.00 Promote Your- self DOVASTON Darwin 220.00 220.00 TRAINING ROOM Darwin Certificate in Business iv NTU Nhulun- Nhulunbuy 401.00 401.00 buy Assessment & Workplace TSIS Nhulun- Nhulunbuy 2,320.00 2,320.00 buy 4WD training ST JOHNS Casuarina 584.00 584.00 Casurarina/ Palmeston Senior First Aide Sub Total - Off 7,267.00 5,876.00 220.00 6,047.00 19,410.00 Site
TOTAL 14,013.00 12,839.00 220.00 13,076.00 40,148.00
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services: Staffing (Question No. 2711) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Af- fairs, upon notice, on 22 March 2004: (1) How many ongoing staff are employed by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC). (2) How many senior executive officers are employed by ATSIC. (3) How many staff are engaged by ATSIC on fixed-term or fixed-task contracts. (4) How many ongoing staff are employed by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS).
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23179
(5) How many senior executive officers are employed by ATSIS. (6) How many staff are engaged by ATSIS on fixed-term or fixed-task contracts. Senator Vanstone—Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) has provided the following information in response to the honourable senator’s question.: The staffing levels are current at 7 April 2004: (1) 18 (2) 1 (3) 25 (4) 1146 (5) 31 (6) 165 Australian Grand Prix: Tobacco (Question No. 2712) Senator Allison asked the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 22 March 2004: Was the Minister aware that smoking was apparently permitted in the stands at the 2004 Australian Grand Prix, despite the fact that stadiums are now mostly smoke free public spaces: if so, was smoking permitted in the stands at this event as a result of an arrangement with the Federal Government. Senator Ian Campbell—The Minister for Health and Ageing has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: No, the Minister was not aware that smoking was apparently permitted in the stands at the 2004 Austra- lian Formula One Grand Prix. Legislation relating to smoking in public places is the responsibility of States and Territories and falls outside the jurisdiction of the Federal Government. Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda (Question No. 2714) Senator Jacinta Collins asked the Minister representing the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources, upon notice, on 22 March 2004: (1) How much funding was provided by the department for the Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda. (2) (a) What proportion of the action agenda’s funding was provided by the department; (b) who provided the remainder; and (c) how much did each contributor provide. (3) Were any conditions or criteria attached to this funding; if so, what are they. (4) How was the action agenda administered and by whom. (5) What were the program criteria or aims of the action agenda. (6) Was a report provided to the Government about the outcomes of the action agenda and is this report publicly available; if so, from where can a copy be obtained or accessed. (7) How many people, including attendees to industry forums, participated in the action agenda.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23180 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Senator Minchin—The Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Since the Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda commenced in November 2002, total departmental funding to be allocated to the Action Agenda up to June 30 2004 is estimated to be $596,326 (comprising an estimated salary allocation of $330,959 and an estimated allocation to ‘other departmental costs’ of $265,367). (2) (a) It is not possible to determine the totality of funds spent in developing the Action Agenda to date. The Department’s funding has been limited to the provision of secretariat services, costs associated with the hosting of some meetings and some additional expenses such as research. Other costs such as time, travel and other expenses associated with industry participation, and participation by other departments in the Action Agenda, were borne by the companies and departments involved. Industry also hosted and bore the costs of a number of meetings of the Action Agenda. (b) See 2a above. (c) See 2a above. (3) The expenditure included departmental staffing and the normal administrative expenses associated with staff such as travel and meetings, as well as some research/consultancies. No program funds were allocated for the development of the Action Agenda. All departmental funds were expensed in accordance with the financial practices specified in ITR’s Chief Executive Instructions. (4) The Strategic Industry Leadership Group (SILG) was established to develop the Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda. The SILG comprised industry leaders with a vision and commitment to the future of the industry, representing both large and small companies across Australia. In addition, there was a departmental representative and representatives of training, education and research institutions. The implementation of the Action Agenda is overseen by an industry-led implementation group comprised of key stakeholders (individual business, industry organisations and government). This group is required to report back to Government each year on implementation progress. (5) Action Agendas are means by which industry works with government to identify and then implement strategies to overcome impediments to growth. The Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda seeks to address impediments relevant to its sector and to build an industry that: • is sustainable and has mutually productive links with industry partners; • is more skilled and professional; • works within a more flexible workplace relations environment that better reflects the nature of the industry; • is made more cohesive, adaptable and sustainable, through skilled and informed marketing and promotion; and • is comfortable with technology and innovation as ways of increasing efficiency and competitiveness. (6) Yes. The Restaurant and Catering Industry Action Agenda, “The Business of Eating Out”, is a public document and copies can be accessed through the Department of Industry, Tourism and Resources or via the Department’s website (www.industry.gov.au/tourism) (7) Around 187 people either participated in the development of the Action Agenda through one of the 19 public forums that were conducted in metropolitan and regional locations around Australia, or provided a written submission. Collectively, there have been some 84 key stakeholders directly involved to date in development of the Action Agenda and in the implementation process.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23181
Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs: ATSIC News (Question No. 2728) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Af- fairs, upon notice, on 24 March 2004: For each of the financial years 2001-02 and 2002-03 and for 2003-04 to date: (1) How many editions of the publication ‘ATSIC News’ were published. (2) How many staff worked on its production. (3) What did the publication cost, including staff, production and distribution costs. Senator Vanstone—Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) has provided the following information in response to the honourable senator’s question: (1) In the 2001-02 and 2002-03 financial years, three editions of ATSIC News were produced, two in 2001-02 and one in 2002-03. Another edition was substantially prepared in 2002-03 but published early in the new financial year; (2) Two full-time staff worked on ATSIC News (an editor/writer and graphic designer) during each production period (which spans approximately two months in the case of writing/editing and one month for graphic design). Other ATSIC-ATSIS staff—in particular Public Affairs Officers based in the State Offices—also assisted in writing specific articles, as required, and a few articles were commissioned from outside writers. Staff and other writers are listed in alphabetical order on page 2 of each edition, though their relative contributions to the finished product varied significantly; (3) It is estimated that the four editions referred to above cost around $300,000 including production, printing, distribution and staff costs, averaging $75,000 per edition. Costs of production, printing and distribution were $95,700 and $98,680 for 2001-02 and 2002-03 respectively – that is almost $50,000 per edition. Each edition averaged 64 pages and was mailed out to more than 7000 subscribers, the remainder of the 20,000 print run being distributed through ATSIC-ATSIS offices. Staff costs for each edition have been estimated at about $25,000 per edition, though such costs cannot be assigned precisely. Community Development Employment Projects: Participants (Question No. 2731) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Af- fairs, upon notice, on 24 March 2004: For each of the financial years 2001-02 and 2002-03 and for 2003-04 to date: (1) Listed by department and/or agency, how many Community Development Employment Projects program participants have been placed in Commonwealth departments and/or agencies. (2) Listed by department and/or agency, how many of these participants have been offered employment by their placement departments or agencies. Senator Vanstone—Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) has provided the following information in response to the honourable senator’s question: Whilst it is not possible to retrieve the data for each of the financial years you have requested, a recent survey of the ATSIS Regional Network found that CDEP participants are being employed, on a part- time basis, by various Departments and Agencies throughout Australia. These include Centrelink and the Department of Education and Workplace Relations. ATSIS’s Employment and Training Branch has recently examined CDEP participation data and advised that although there were over 80 participants involved in various State and Commonwealth government
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23182 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 agencies there were eighteen recorded CDEP participants placed within Commonwealth Departments or agencies. The majority of these are with Centrelink. The breakdown of participants per federal agency is: Centrelink 12 DEWR 6 It needs to be emphasised that this information relates only to recorded activities by CDEP organisa- tions, and without checking with the relevant individual agencies it is difficult to get a more accurate figure. In regard to the types of work performed and individual outcomes from placements, including employ- ment gained, it would be necessary for your questions to be directed to the appropriate agencies. Enhancements to the existing participant information system (CDEPManager) will from 2004-2005, include the recording of participants placed with Federal and State Departments and accurate data in relation to these placements will be available. Community Development Employment Projects (Question No. 2732) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Af- fairs, upon notice, on 24 March 2004: With reference to the report on page 1 of the Australian newspaper of 20 December 2003 that financial administrators have been appointed to run 19 Community Development Employment Projects (CDEP), and investigations in relation to another six are ongoing: (1) (a) Who authorised the release of this information to the newspaper; (b) when was the authorisation provided; and (c) when was this information released. (2) Did the newspaper contact Mr Gibbons to initiate the story or was the newspaper contacted by Mr Gibbons, Mr Gibbons’ office, the Minister, the Minister’s office or the department. (3) If the newspaper’s contact with Mr Gibbons initiated the story: (a) when did Mr Gibbons or the Minister commence an investigation into the source of the newspaper’s detailed knowledge about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services’ operations; (b) what was the result of that investigation; and (c) if no investigation has been initiated, why not. (4) Were Mr Gibbon’s comments cleared by the Minister and/or her office before they were issued to the newspaper. (5) Have financial administrators been called in to run 19 CDEPs; if so, which CDEPs and, in each case, when was the administrator appointed and why; if not, when did the Minister or Mr Gibbons seek a correction or write to the newspaper correcting the public record. (6) Were six other CDEPs subject to investigation at the time of publication: (a) if so: (i) which CDEPs were under investigation, (ii) when did those investigations commence and why, and (iii) what were the results, if any; and (b) if not, when did the Minister or Mr Gibbons seek a correction or write to the newspaper correcting the public record. (7) How many, if any, CDEP participants have been displaced from their placements as a result of action taken in respect to any of the 25 CDEP programs identified in the newspaper article. Senator Vanstone—Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) has provided the following information in response to the honourable senator’s question. With reference to the report on page 1 of the Australian newspaper of 20 December 2003 that financial administrators have been appointed to run 19 Community Development Employment Projects (CDEP), and investigations in relation to another six are ongoing:
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23183
(1) (a) (b) and (c) This information was provided by relevant ATSIS staff as information which was either already publicly available or was judged as information which the public had a right to know. The information was provided following the receipt of questions from the journalist (Ms Natalie O’Brien) and consideration of what information it was reasonable for ATSIS to provide. The information was provided on or before 17 December 2003. (2) The journalist, Ms Natalie O’Brien, contacted both Mr Gibbons’s office, and the Environment and Training Branch of ATSIS, following discussions she had held with the Chairperson of the Murdi Paaki Regional Council, Mr Sam Jeffries, and apparently with other people in his region, concerning specific complaints she had received from an unknown person about the operations of a CDEP in Goodooga. It was the information provided by the unknown complainant which apparently initiated the newspaper’s interest in the story. Ms O’Brien appeared to be already well- informed about issues concerning the Goodooga and some other CDEPs before she approached ATSIS. Mr Gibbons informs me that he made three main points to Ms O’Brien: The vast majority of CDEPs were doing a reasonable job but many were having difficulties with complex financial management tasks including payrolls and taxation issues. As a result, ATSIS was considering consolidating such tasks away from individual CDEPs to free them to concentrate on work project management for the individuals they employed. This was part of an overall program of reforming CDEPs to better deliver services in a more effective and efficient manner. However, a small number of CDEP organisations, not identified, were clearly being misused and this was the source of complaints from local communities (although not every complaint was justified). To ignore actual misuse would be to send the wrong signals so complaints which seemed to have some foundation were being investigated. There were a number of CDEPs which were doing excellent work and providing good-practice standards for other CDEPs to learn from and adapt. Mr Gibbons gave the journalist a list of examples of such good-practice CDEPs. Mr Gibbons has also informed me that Ms O’Brien’s published article of 20 December interspersed comments which Mr Gibbons had made with her own points in ways which could have misled readers by not clearly distinguishing what Mr Gibbons said from other points and comments. (3) (a) (b) and (c) As journalists do not reveal sources it was impossible to know and inappropriate to investigate who the initial complainant may have been that contacted the journalist to make allegations about the Goodooga CDEP. Similarly, it would have been inappropriate and unproductive to ask about the other sources of information that the journalist already had at the time she approached ATSIS. When approached by Ms O’Brien, Mr Jeffries and ATSIS staff provided answers based on what was judged to be reasonable in the light of the public’s right to know. No details of ATSIS operations were provided outside of this framework. No investigation was initiated for these reasons. (4) No. (5) The following CDEPs have experienced major difficulties with governance and financial management and, as a result of their inability to manage publicly-sourced funds, Grant Controllers have been appointed. Appointment of a Grant Controller occurs when remedial action has not satisfactorily addressed issues such as:
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23184 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
• when a review identifies breaches of grant conditions and either the review report or the Regional Manager recommends that the project be suspended; • financial reports are unsatisfactory; • a project has been financially mismanaged (eg. unauthorised expenditure); • Periodical Financial Statements, Participant Schedules Information Packages, or audited financial statements have not been provided; • the CDEP is performing poorly; • there are inadequate work plans; • participants are not being offered work; • participants are not involved in CDEP decision-making; • administrators and supervisors lack skills; • work activities are being insufficiently supervised; or • remedial action has not been implemented after a review. Region Organisation Reason for intervention Grant What happened Controller to the participants appointed Northern Iwara Kutju Financial/Management 31/8/2002 Transferred to Areas SA. (Coober Pedy) deficiencies Bungala Bourke Gundabooka AC Financial/Management April 2002 Transferred to Murdi NSW. (Bourke) deficiencies Paaki Regional Enterprise Corp Bourke Pulkurra Financial/Management 29/11/02 Transferred as above NSW (Goodooga) deficiencies Wagga Condobolin Financial/Management 19/9/2003 Transferred to another Wagga deficiencies CDEP, awaiting NSW formation of new regional CDEP Wagga Wandoo Financial/Management 15/9/03 As above Wagga (Albury) deficiencies NSW Wagga Baiyai Financial/Management June 2003 Will transfer to Wagga (Orange/ deficiencies new regional CDEP NSW Bathurst) Wagga Murrin Bridge Financial/Management Sept 2003 Still operating Wagga Advancement deficiencies NSW Aboriginal Corporation Tamworth Armidale CDEP Financial/Management Feb 2004 Continues to operate NSW deficiencies under strict conditions - Kununurra Kununurra Financial/Management 21/11/03 Still operating WA Region Econ AC deficiencies (KREAC) South Ngalikuru Financial/Management 3/02 sus- Still operating Hedland Ngumarnta AC deficiencies pended and WA re-instated
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23185
Region Organisation Reason for intervention Grant What happened Controller to the participants appointed South Papunya Financial/Management Oct 2003 Still operating Hedland Community deficiencies WA Melbourne Bunyarnda Financial/Management Feb 2002 44 of 83 transferred VIC CDEP Co-op deficiencies to another CDEP. (Lake Tyers) Roma Toowoomba Financial/Management Aug 2003 Transferred to QLD Aboriginal deficiencies another CDEP Corporation Roma Warrego Financial/Management 28/11/02 Transferred to QLD deficiencies another CDEP Roma Bidjara CDEP Financial/Management 1/12/2003 CDEP transferred to QLD deficiencies a service provider Brisbane Brisbane Council Financial/Management Feb 2004 Continues to operate QLD of Elders deficiencies under strict conditions – Grant Controller appointed Perth NEEDAC Financial/Management Oct 2003 Continues to operate WA deficiencies under strict conditions Perth Wheatbelt Financial/Management Aug-Nov Continues to operate WA Aboriginal deficiencies 2003 being closely Corporation. monitored Nhulunbuy Umbakumba Financial/Management June 2003 Still operating. NT Community deficiencies Council (6) (a) and (b) At any given time a varying number of CDEP service-provider organisations are more closely monitored and or investigated for poor performance and apparent failure to meet terms and conditions of grant. At the time of the news report it was estimated that approximately another six CDEP organisations were assessed as being at risk and their precise difficulties more closely scrutinised. Investigations continue on an ongoing basis in regard to CDEP organisations experiencing difficulties, where evidence or allegations indicate financial or operational risk. ATSIS is very proactive in this regard. Spot checks, reviews and investigations into the operation of CDEP organisations are conducted on a risk-management basis by ATSIS Regional Managers. It should not be assumed that CDEPs under review are experiencing severe financial or management difficulties. Indeed, the assistance of the relevant ATSIS Regional Office is primarily intended to identify problems early and work with the service providers to address these. (7) Due to participants leaving by natural attrition, or taking up employment, training or education opportunities, I am not able to accurately quantify the number of CDEP participants displaced by closures. Anecdotal evidence suggests that it is negligible, with the vast majority transferring into larger Regionalised or Corporate CDEPs, as evidenced by CDEP utilisation of participant places remaining constant. See also Table in Question 5.
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Shipping: Crimes at Sea (Question No. 2736) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice, on 24 March 2004: (1) How many prosecutions have been brought by Commonwealth authorities utilising the provisions of the Crimes at Sea Act 2000. (2) In what courts were these prosecutions tried. (3) What were the names of the parties involved. (4) When did these prosecutions take place and when were they finalised. (5) What were the file numbers of these prosecutions. (6) What Commonwealth offences were the basis for the charges in these prosecutions. (7) Which prosecutions: (a) resulted in a conviction; and (b) did not result in a conviction. (8) Has the Commonwealth Attorney-General ever granted consent for a prosecution under the Part 4 of the Act’s Intergovernmental Agreement; if so: (a) when; (b) what were the names of the parties involved; and (c) when was consent granted. (9) Has the Commonwealth Attorney-General ever refused consent for a prosecution under the Act’s Intergovernmental Agreement; if so: (a) what were the names of the parties involved; and (b) when was consent refused. Senator Ellison—The Attorney-General has provided the following answer to the honour- able senator’s question: (1) DPP records do not identify any prosecutions brought by Commonwealth Authorities under the Crimes at Sea Act 2000. (2) See (1). (3) See (1). (4) See (1). (5) See (1). (6) See (1). (7) See (1). (8) The Minister for Justice has given consent in one matter pursuant to Part 4 of Schedule 1 to the Crimes at Sea Act 2000. (a) June 2003. (b) Vicente Mirasol. (c) See Question 8(a). (9) No. Australian Defence Force: Commonwealth Law Enforcement (Question No. 2756) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 14 February 2003: What powers do the Australian Defence Force personnel have to enforce Commonwealth law within: (a) the 3 nautical miles of ocean immediately adjacent to Australian coastline; (b) Australia’s territorial sea; (c) the ‘contiguous zone’ of Australia’s exclusive economic zone; and (d) Australia’s exclusive eco- nomic zone. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:
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(a) and (b) In accordance with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Australia’s territorial sea extends up 12 nautical miles drawn from Australia’s baselines. Within this area, the three nautical miles of ocean immediately adjacent to Australian coastline forms part of Australia’s territorial sea. Australian Defence Force (ADF) personnel have a broad range of powers to enforce Commonwealth law within the territorial sea. There is a range of legislation under which the ADF can act, including the Customs Act 1901, the Fisheries Management Act 1991 and the Migration Act 1958. (c) In the contiguous zone, a state can exercise the control necessary to prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws in its territory or territorial sea, and may punish infringements of those laws that have occurred within its territory or territorial sea. The Border Protection Legislation Amendment Act 1999 (No 60 of 1999) amended the Customs Act 1901 and the Migration Act 1958 to introduce new powers of boarding and inspection of ships in the contiguous zone. These powers are contained in Subdivision B of Division 1 of Part XIII of the Customs Act 1901 and Division 12A of Part 2 of the Migration Act 1958. These powers are routinely used in the course of Operation Relex II to intercept and apprehend suspected illegal entry vessels. (d) ADF personnel are routinely involved in enforcing a range of Commonwealth legislation within the exclusive economic zone. The Fisheries Management Act 1991 is one piece of legislation that ADF personnel normally enforce in their capacity as officers for the purposes of that Act. There are a number of other Acts which apply in the exclusive economic zone, such as the Petroleum (Submerged Lands) Act 1967 and the Offshore Minerals Act 1994, and a range of enactments dealing with marine environment protection such as the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999, Protection of the Sea (Powers of Intervention) Act 1981 and the Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Act 1981, some of which may empower ADF personnel to carry out enforcement functions. Indigenous Affairs: Native Title Claimants (Question No. 2761) Senator Lightfoot asked the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 26 March 2004: (1) How many native title claimants are registered in the Goldfields region of Western Australia and its surrounding areas. (2) How many of these claimants are formally represented by the Goldfields Land and Sea Council in Kalgoorlie. Senator Vanstone—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Services (ATSIS) with assistance from the National Native Title Tribunal (NNTT) has provided the following information: (1) Information is not recorded as to the actual number of claimants within a particular area. This number would fluctuate in any event through births and natural attrition. Data is collected on a claim group basis. In the Goldfields Native Title Determination Area, twelve native title applications have been accepted as registered native title claims by the National Native Title Tribunal and fall either fully or partially within the defined area. (2) Nine of these twelve are represented by Goldfields Land and Sea Council. One of the twelve is represented by another Native Title Representative Body as less than 1% of the area falls within the Goldfields Area. The remaining two claims are self represented.
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Foreign Affairs and Trade: Legal Services (Question Nos 2782 and 2784) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 30 March 2004: (1) In the past 12 months has the department or its agencies used, retained or paid for legal or other services from Phillips Fox Lawyers or any of their subsidiaries; if so: (a) can details of each instance be provided; and (b) as a general overview, what was the nature of the work undertaken. (2) Has the Minister attended any forums presented by Phillips Fox; if so, can details be provided. (3) Has the department sponsored any Phillip Fox forums or presentations in the past 12 months; if so, can details of the forums or presentations be provided. Senator Hill—The following answer has been provided by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Trade to the honourable senator’s question: ACIAR (1) No. (3) No. AJF (1) No. (3) No. AusAID (1) Yes (a) (i) Provision of a probity adviser in relation to the tender for the Fiji Lautoka Teachers’ Upgrade Project. (ii) Preparation of the contract for the Fiji Health Sector Improvement Program, (b) Provision of advice during the contract negotiations and clearance of the final contract. (3) No Austrade (1) Yes (a) Phillips Fox were engaged on 12 February 2004 to assist with the ‘Telecommunications Links Market Test’ tender. (b) Phillips Fox are providing legal and drafting services on the tender project. The project is expected to be completed by end-April 2004. (3) No. DFAT (1) No. (3) No. EFIC (1) No. (3) No. With respect to question (2), neither Mr Downer nor Mr Vaile has any record or recollection of having attended any forum presented by Phillips Fox in the past year.
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Industry, Tourism and Resources: Legal Services (Question No. 2793) Senator Ludwig asked the Minister representing the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources, upon notice, on 31 March 2004: (1) In the past 12 months has the department or its agencies used, retained or paid for legal or other services from Phillips Fox Lawyers or any of their subsidiaries; if so: (a) can details of each instance be provided; and (b) as a general overview, what was the nature of the work undertaken. (2) Has the Minister attended any forums presented by Phillips Fox; if so, can details be provided. (3) Has the department sponsored any Phillip Fox forums or presentations in the past 12 months; if so, can details of the forums or presentations be provided. Senator Minchin—The Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) (a) In the past 12 months the department used, retained and paid for legal services from Phillips Fox Lawyers totalling $116,480 (inclusive of GST) specifically for technical legal advice on existing legislative arrangements in the electricity and gas sectors. Neither the department nor the portfolio agencies have used, retained or paid for legal or other services from any of Phillips Fox Lawyers’ subsidiaries. (b) In the past 12 months Phillips Fox Lawyers provided technical legal advice to the department only. (2) The Minister has not attended any forums presented by Phillips Fox. (3) The department has not sponsored any Phillips Fox forums or presentations in the past 12 months. Health: National Immunisation Program (Question No. 2802) Senator Jacinta Collins asked the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Age- ing, upon notice, on 31 March 2004: With reference to the Minister’s media release of 19 September 2003: (1) What cost savings will result from the removal from the National Immunisation Program of the dose of diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine given to children at the age of 18 months. (2) In light of this decision, have there been any changes to the Child Care Benefit payment or the Maternity Immunisation Allowance payment, or are any changes to this payment contemplated. Senator Ian Campbell—The Minister for Health and Ageing has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question: (1) The 18 month dose of diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTPa) vaccine was removed from the National Immunisation Program on the recommendation of the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI). This dose was considered to be unnecessary as a result of the high level of immunity from the primary course at 2, 4, and 6 months of age. This dose also had an increased risk of local adverse events following immunisation. Removing this unnecessary dose of DTPa, will result in a saving to the National Immunisation Program. As this was the only vaccine administered at 18 months, savings are also expected in relation to payments under the Medicare Benefits Scheme and notification payments to immunisation providers.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23190 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
The ATAGI recommended the introduction of a dose of adult formulation diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (dTpa) vaccine at 15-17 years, to replace the current dose of diphtheria and tetanus vaccine (ADT) vaccine provided at 15-19 years of age. The cost of replacing ADT with dTpa vaccine, taking into consideration the savings resulting from the removal of the 18 month dose of DTPa, is $5.36 million over four years. (2) Effective from 19 September 2003, the 18 month dose of diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (DTPa) vaccine was removed from the immunisation requirements for Child Care Benefit and Maternity Immunisation Allowance payments. The legislation governing immunisation linkages to Child Care Benefit and Maternity Immunisation Allowance (A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999) is administered by the Department of Family and Community Services. Defence: Depleted Uranium (Question No. 2810) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 2 April 2004: (1) Have depleted uranium munitions been used in past joint US-Australian military exercises, or are they intended to be used in such future exercises on the Australian mainland, or in or adjacent to Australian territorial waters. (2) Have depleted uranium munitions been used by the United States of America military in combat zones such as Iraq, Kosovo or elsewhere; if so, what quantity was used: (a) in the first Gulf war; (b) during the period between the first Gulf War and the start of the second Gulf war in 2003; and (c) since the start of the second Gulf War. (3) What is known about the immediate and long-term effects on the environment and on human populations of the dispersal of depleted uranium particulate in the environment. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The Australian Defence Force and its contractors have reviewed documents and data pertaining to the weapons used on Australian training areas by Australian and foreign forces. No evidence was found of depleted uranium (DU) ammunition being used on Australian training areas. Ammunition containing DU was used in the Phalanx 20 mm close-in weapons system on Royal Australian Navy ships during training exercises from 1981 until their phase-out in mid-1990. There is no intent to use DU munitions in future exercises. (2) Yes. Questions regarding the specific quantities of munitions used should be addressed to the United States Government. (3) Some recent scientific studies suggest that there may be a slight health risk associated with significant ingestion and inhalation of DU particles, but the level of risk from dispersed particulate DU is likely to be low. A United Nations Environmental Program post-conflict study titled “Depleted Uranium in Bosnia and Herzegovina” published in May 2003 found that the recorded contamination levels from DU munitions in Bosnia and Herzegovina were “…very low and do not present immediate radioactive or toxic risks for the environment or human health”. Environment: Climate Change (Question No. 2811) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 2 April 2004: With reference to the October 2003 Pentagon Report, Abrupt Climate Scenario and its implications for United States National Security by Peter Schwartz and Doug Randall: (1) Did Australian agencies have any role in producing this paper; if so, what was that role.
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Wednesday, 12 May 2004 SENATE 23191
(2) Has the department or any of its agencies undertaken similar programs to analyse the possible impacts of climate change on Australia’s security; if so, can details and copies of the documents be provided. (3) Is the scenario outlined in the Pentagon paper plausible. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) No. (2) No. (3) This question should be directed to the Minister for the Environment and Heritage. AusAID: Projects (Question No. 2823) Senator Greig asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon no- tice, on 6 April: (1) For each of the financial years 1996-97, 1997-98, 1998-99, 1999-2000, 2000-01, 2001-02 and 2002-03, how much did AusAID spend on projects whose objectives included generating employment and financial opportunities for Indonesian fishing communities. (2) For the 2003-04 financial year to date, how much has AusAID spent on projects whose objectives included generating employment and financial opportunities for Indonesian fishing communities. Senator Hill—The Minister for Foreign Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable member’s question: The Australian Government has funded the following projects, under mechanisms such as the Small Activities Scheme (SAS), bilateral projects, Indonesia Government Sector Linkages Program (GSLP), and the Direct Aid Program (DAP) to assist Indonesian fishing communities generate employment and financial opportunities: Name of Project Funding Mechanism Location Grant Year(s) Development of Fishing Small Activities Waikelo and Ketwel $ 18,750 1995-96 Cooperative Scheme villages, West Sumba 1996-97 Australian Technology Government Sector Muna and Buton $132,700 1996-97 and Sustainable Marine Linkages Program Districts, Southeast Resources Development in Sulawesi Eastern Indonesia Local Resources Man- Small Activities Kendari, Southeast $4,776 1997-98 agement for Income Gen- Scheme Sulawesi eration Training Program for Government Sector Eastern Indonesia $ 71,900 1997-98 Fisheries Management and Linkages Program Mariculture Development of Fisher- Direct Assistance Majene and Malunda $5, 035 2000-01 men’s Wives Self-Help Program (DAP) sub-districts, Makas- Group sar, South Sulawesi Acquaculture Develop- Government Sector Roti Island, East $145,500 2000-01 ment as Alternative In- Linkages Program Nusa Tenggara come Generating Liveli- hood for Traditional Indo- nesian Fishers Dependent on Declining Fisheries in Australian Waters
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 23192 SENATE Wednesday, 12 May 2004
Name of Project Funding Mechanism Location Grant Year(s) Komodo Mariculture Pro- Government Sector Komodo, Nusa Teng- $55,900 2000-01 ject - Finfish Mariculture Linkages Program gara Timur to Support Alternative Livelihood Development in the Komodo Area Eco Improvement for Small Activities Manado, South Su- $36,270 2001-02 Traditional Fishermen Scheme lawesi Capacity Building in In- Government Sector Jakarta $167,935 2002-03 donesian Fisheries Man- Linkages Program agement Assistance for Income Coral Reef Rehabilita- various coastal $200,000 2002-03 Generation for Fishing tion and Management communities in Communities Project (COREMAP) Sikka District, Flores Assistance for Income Coral Reef Rehabilita- various coastal $40,000 2003-04 Generation for Fishing tion and Management communities in Communities Project (COREMAP) Sikka District, Flores
QUESTIONS ON NOTICE