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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 21 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 6883 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 21 February 2019 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. 6884 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 6885 THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P. 6886 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 6887 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING MR JOSEPH CHAN HO-LIM, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY DR RAYMOND SO WAI-MAN, B.B.S., J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 6888 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 MEMBERS' MOTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good morning. This Council continues to deal with the motion moved under the Legislative Council (Powers and Privileges) Ordinance. Mr LAM Cheuk-ting, please speak. MOTION UNDER THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (POWERS AND PRIVILEGES) ORDINANCE Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 20 February 2019 MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): President, I thank Ms Tanya CHAN for proposing the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the problems of incomplete construction documentation and deviation from the works plans of the Shatin to Central Link ("SCL"). President, the name of MTR in full is the Mass Transit Railway. Some members of the public have renamed it the "Most Terrible Railway", and now SCL is called the "Most Terrified Railway". What is most terrifying about it? It is not serious cost overrun or years of delay. Nor is it falsification in the project. Rather, it is the sudden disappearance of relevant construction records, records of materials, plans, etc. after the scandal concerning falsification in the project was exposed. If the offenders in the substandard piling works case back then had such brains of these masterminds behind the SCL scandal today, as long as they flatly denied everything and destroyed all traces of evidence, I believe they would not have been convicted even if the entire building tilted like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. President, Members of the pro-establishment camp often say that the pro-democracy camp is fixated on SCL, picking on the Government and the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL"). Let us recap the whole incident. Since the very first day this big scandal was exposed, what attitude has been held by the pro-establishment camp? First, they trust MTRCL. MTRCL has a good reputation and is renowned worldwide. Since MTRCL has already denied the relevant matters, we should not start rumours and stir up troubles here. Second, they believe the consultant of MTRCL. The consultant said it is only necessary LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 6889 to conduct a load test of the platform. There is no need to open up the concrete to check the rebars. Neither is there a need to conduct another inquiry. Third, they trust the independent Commission of Inquiry, considering that an inquiry by the Judge will suffice. There is no need for the Legislative Council to conduct any inquiry because there are a lot of political disputes in the Council. An inquiry by the Legislative Council will only be a waste of time and efforts. Let us review the whole picture. Actually what has happened? It is way more serious than what we imagined on day one. Not only were the rebars not connected with the couplers and the works not carried in accordance with the plans. Now even the Request for Inspection and Survey Checks ("RISC") forms, materials testing records and altered works plans have gone missing. What is this if not destruction of all traces of crime? Earlier on, MTRCL and the Government spoke with ease and assurance. They came to the Legislative Council and said they had been monitoring the works of MTR closely. They would conduct regular inspections. The monitoring system was flawless. After the scandal was exposed subsequently, MTRCL produced a large pile of records and stated at the press conference to this effect: "All of our works have been accepted by professionals and confirmed with signatures." Now where are these records? Or is it like a movie story? Among the pieces of paper put on the desk, those on the top were $1,000-notes and those at the bottom were just blank paper. Is that what has happened? The Government kept saying that the RISC forms were used to verify the quality of works at the hold points, i.e. whether the rebars had been screwed in tightly. It was only after such a check and no problem was found that concreting could be conducted. How perfect! This goalposts were imposed by itself. But now what has happened to these goalposts? When a penalty kick is awarded against MTRCL and the opposing team is about to take the shot, they find that the goalposts have disappeared. All the standards have gone. All the records are missing. Who is the referee responsible for judging in this match? Secretary Frank CHAN. He is a director of MTRCL as well as the Secretary for Transport and Housing. Such a big scandal was exposed right before his eyes, and during investigation, such important documents could completely go missing. Where have they gone? No idea. Why were they lost? No idea. How many materials testing records have gone missing? Again, no idea. 6890 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 21 February 2019 May I ask the pro-establishment camp how members of the public can believe in all the investigations under Frank CHAN's supervision? Let alone the investigation by MTRCL which found a so-called independent consultant to come forward to say that a rebar screwed into the coupler by 60% of the full depth could already provide a sufficient loading capacity. May I ask whether MTRCL would pay the contractor only 60% of the project fee. Would MTRCL charge the public only 60% of the fares? Would the Secretary for Transport and Housing receive only 60% of his salary? How can we possibly allow MTRCL to engage this so-called independent consultant to advance such a specious argument which even a three-year-old would not believe? As we can see, the strategy of MTRCL in handling the whole SCL scandal is, firstly, denial.
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