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Official Transcript.Pdf GUANTANAMO DETAINEES AFTER BOUMEDIENE: NOW WHAT? HEARING BEFORE THE COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION JULY 15, 2008 Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe [CSCE 110–2–16] ( Available via http://www.csce.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 63–894 PDF WASHINGTON : 2011 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800 Fax: (202) 512–2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402–0001 VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS HOUSE SENATE ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida, BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland, Chairman Co-Chairman LOUISE McINTOSH SLAUGHTER, RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin New York CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, Connecticut MIKE McINTYRE, North Carolina HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, New York HILDA L. SOLIS, California JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey GORDON SMITH, Oregon ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania RICHARD BURR, North Carolina MIKE PENCE, Indiana EXECUTIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS Hon. David J. Kramer, Department of State Hon. Mary Beth Long, Department of Defense Hon. David Bohigian, Department of Commerce (II) VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 0486 Sfmt 0486 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD GUANTANAMO DETAINEES AFTER BOUMEDIENE: NOW WHAT? JULY 15, 2008 COMMISSIONERS Page Hon. Alcee L. Hastings, Chairman, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ..................................................... 1 Hon. Benjamin L. Cardin, Co-Chairman, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ...................................... 26 Hon. Christopher H. Smith, Ranking Member, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ................................. 15 Hon. Hilda L. Solis, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ..................................................... 21 Hon. G.K. Butterfield, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe ...................................... 14 WITNESSES Gabor Rona, International Legal Director, Human Rights First .......................................................................................... 3 Matthew C. Waxman, Associate Professor, Columbia Law School ........................................................................................ 6 Jeremy Shapiro, Fellow and Research Director, Center on the United States and Europe, The Brookings Institution .. 9 APPENDICES Prepared statement of Hon. Benjamin L. Cardin .................... 33 Prepared statement of Gabor Rona ........................................... 34 Prepared statement of Matthew C. Waxman ........................... 40 Prepared statement of Jeremy Shapiro ..................................... 43 (III) VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 0484 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00004 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 0484 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD GUANTANAMO DETAINEES AFTER BOUMEDIENE: NOW WHAT? July 15, 2008 COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE WASHINGTON, DC The hearing was held at 2:40 p.m. in room B–318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC, Hon. Alcee L. Hastings, Chairman, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, presiding. Commissioners present: Hon. Alcee L. Hastings, Chairman, Com- mission on Security and Cooperation in Europe; Hon. Christopher H. Smith, Ranking Member, Commission on Security and Coopera- tion in Europe; Hon. Hilda L. Solis, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe; and Hon. G.K. Butterfield, Commissioner, Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. Witnesses present: Gabor Rona, International Legal Director, Human Rights First; Matthew C. Waxman, Columbia Law School; and Jeremy Shapiro, Fellow and Research Director, Center on the United States and Europe, The Brookings Institution. HON. ALCEE L. HASTINGS, CHAIRMAN, COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE Mr. HASTINGS. If I could gavel our hearing to order and thank all of you for being here. In January in 2005, 31⁄2 years ago, Brigadier General Jay Hood, at that time the U.S. Commander in charge of the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, gave an interview to the Wall Street Journal in which he acknowledged, and I quote, ‘‘Sometimes we just didn’t get the right folks,’’ unquote. Sometimes we just didn’t get the right folks. The Wall Street Journal article continued, ‘‘In theory, once a de- tainee is thought no longer to present a threat to the U.S. or pos- sess any valuable intelligence, he should be sent home. In practice, the system is stuck. Releasing a prisoner requires the approval of the Defense Department headquarters as well as the State Depart- ment, Central Intelligence Agency, and the FBI.’’ General Hood further observed, ‘‘Nobody wants to be the one who signs the release statement. There’s no muscle in the system.’’ And I’m referencing the Wall Street Journal article of January 26, ’05. Unfortunately, 31⁄2 years after General Hood made those com- ments, and 6 years after the Guantanamo camp was opened, there (1) VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD 2 seems to be little progress made in addressing the fundamental problems that plague that detention facility. In fact, the shortcomings of the Guantanamo system are perhaps best illustrated by the fate of the extremes among those detained there. Last month, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ordered that 1 of 17 Chinese Uighurs be released or given a new military hearing. The United States had previously cleared this man, Huzaifa Parhat, of the charge of being an enemy combatant, but nonethe- less has kept him in prison at Gitmo. He is not an enemy of the United States but our country keeps him in prison. At the other end of the spectrum, there’s not been a single com- pleted trial of those suspected of the most serious crimes committed against our country, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who is believed to be responsible for helping to plan the 9/11 attacks. The case against alleged 20th hijacker, Mohammed al Qahtani, has been dismissed without prejudice for reasons that were not an- nounced. In his case, it is speculated that there is insufficient evi- dence against him that is not completely tainted by the means used to extract it, or that the methods of interrogation used against him have rendered him incapable of participating in his trial. The fact that Gitmo is still open is a testament to the genuine challenges we face in relocating its residents. And we discussed those challenges at the hearing the Commission held last year. But it also speaks to a lack of political leadership in fixing the problems there. Today, in light of last month’s Supreme Court’s decision in the Boumediene case, upholding the right of Guantanamo detainees to habeas corpus, I believe it is timely and appropriate to revisit the policy questions related to our detention policy. For that purpose we’ve invited Matthew Waxman and Gabor Rona to join us and share their considerable insights. Mr. Rona, who testified at our Guantanamo hearing last year, has just returned from visiting on Guantanamo. In addition, we’re joined by Jeremy Shapiro, who is going to dis- cuss the question of what Europe is doing with its terror suspects. The United States is not the first country to struggle with ter- rorism. And perhaps there’s something we can learn from Euro- pean experiences. Clearly, no European country has thrown the prohibition against torture out the window or tried to defend waterboarding as a pro- fessional interrogation technique. But at the same time, if we look carefully at the civilian criminal procedures used in Europe, they seem to present their own set of challenges. At a minimum, we can say that many European coun- tries are struggling with some of the same issues we are. And I look forward to hearing more from Mr. Shapiro. The biographies of all our witnesses, ladies and gentlemen, have been printed out and made available to everyone attending this hearing. And I look forward to all of their remarks. Finally, I’d like to know—we did invite witnesses from the ad- ministration to join us here today. We asked people from the De- partment of Defense and the Department of State and the Depart- VerDate Nov 24 2008 08:01 Feb 02, 2011 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\WORK\071508 HAROLD PsN: HAROLD 3 ment of Justice. Unfortunately, they are apparently unprepared or unwilling to discuss this issue at this time. And in light of the vital implications of this subject for our country, I sorely regret the ab- sence of administration witnesses. I do however warmly welcome, if he does attend, our fellow com- missioner from the Department of State, David Kramer, who may be along, as well as Senator Cardin, who is finishing up a hearing on the Senate side. With that in mind, I guess it doesn’t matter—maybe we’ll start with Mr. Rona. I don’t know whether you gentlemen have worked it out. We’ll go to Mr. Rona, Mr. Waxman and then Mr. Shapiro. Gentlemen? GABOR RONA, INTERNATIONAL LEGAL DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST Mr. RONA. Thank you, Chairman Hastings. Thank you very much for inviting me to share the views of Human Rights First on these important issues. My name is Gabor Rona. I am the International Legal Director of Human Rights First. I came before you a year ago to discuss international law applica- ble to detainees at Guantanamo and others detained in the so- called War on Terror. Chairman Hastings, you were especially gracious in your com- ments about my written testimony and I thank you for that.
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