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DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Fourth Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 9 – 1:30 p.m., Monday, December 9, 2002 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY First Session–Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 323 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, December 9, 2002 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Also, on behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. PRAYERS ORAL QUESTION PERIOD ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Kyoto Protocol Introduction of Guests Implementation Costs Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official like to draw the attention of all honourable Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I believe everyone in members to the public gallery where we have this House is in favour of reducing greenhouse with us today Mr. Shiva Dulal of Kathmandu, gas and the premise of Kyoto, but the problem is Nepal, who is the guest of the honourable that no one can tell us the costs associated with Minister of Family Services and Housing (Mr. the implementation of Kyoto and the impacts it Caldwell). will have on the economy. Also in the public gallery we have with us The Energy Minister has been quoted as today journalism students from Red River saying that the costs associated with College. These students are under the direction implementing the Kyoto Protocol are irrelevant. of Mr. Duncan McMonagle. Maybe that is the opinion of the Doer government, but on this side of the House we Also I would like to draw the attention of all believe costs are relevant. honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Mr. Binx Remnant, * (13:35) Sharon Dowell and Ellisha Remnant of Winnipeg. Instead of telling Manitobans simply to trust him, can the Premier tell Manitobans and On behalf of all honourable members, I everyone in this House today the potential welcome you all here today. impacts, the costs of implementing Kyoto? What are those costs to Manitobans? Also in the public gallery we have from Athlone School 27 Grade 5 students under the Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I want to table in direction of Mrs. Renee McGurry. This school is the House a news release from October 20, located in the constituency of the honourable 1998, wherein a minister named Mr. McCrae Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray). and another minister named Mr. Newman talk about the absolute need for Canada and Also we have from St. Paul's Collegiate 35 Manitoba to deal with the Kyoto Protocol. They Grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Kim go on to say hydro-electricity is clean, green Earl. This school is located in the constituency power and a major tool for the reduction of of the honourable Member for Morris (Mr. greenhouse gases, within a time frame identified Pitura). at Kyoto, said Mr. McCrae. Manitoba has made a commitment to put a viable plan in place to We have from Sisler High 16 Grade 11 deal with climate change. students under the direction of Mr. Chris Bandfield. This school is located in the Mr. Speaker, I will table this document and constituency of the honourable Member for ask the member opposite why the Tories never Burrows (Mr. Martindale). had a viable plan for Kyoto like we do. 324 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 9, 2002 Mr. Murray: Of course if the Premier would do that Manitobans have a thorough understanding his research he would understand at that time the of the impact costs and benefits that Kyoto will indication was the United States was also going have on Manitobans. to be in the Kyoto Protocol, unlike today. I ask the Premier today to provide evidence Mr. Speaker, some studies have said that job to all Manitobans of the impact Kyoto will have losses to the economy could be as high as on the economy, the agriculture sector, the 240 000 jobs. Federal Environment Minister transportation sector, the manufacturing sector. David Anderson says implementation will only Will the Premier unveil his plan? cost some 60 000 jobs to the economy. Mr. Doer: I will table the three documents we I would ask the Premier today: Has he done have produced in our time and compare it to the an analysis of how many jobs, implementing the vacuous amount of information we had with Kyoto Protocol will be impacted in Manitoba? members opposite. * (13:40) Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, as I say, when we came into office there was, quote: No plan available. Mr. Speaker, one must ask: Who is the Leader of the Opposition now representing? Is The press release from the Conservatives he representing Stephen Harper and the Alliance opposite said: "By speaking out to our federal, Party, or is he representing Manitoba in the great provincial and territorial counterparts we are benefits that Kyoto will have, not only to the helping send appropriate, timely signals to environment, to the future? Canadian industry and the world at large that Canada will create the conditions industry Why is the member opposite taking in the requires to meet the Kyoto challenge." opposite view of former Premier Gary Filmon? He knew what was best for Manitoba: hydro- This was the Conservative position on electric power, clean energy sources. It is time October 20, 1998. Why are the Conservatives for this member to start representing Manitoba, flip-flopping again? not his extreme ideological friends as he did in health care debate last week in the Canadian Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the question is very Alliance party in Ottawa. simple: Does the Premier have a plan? Clearly there is no plan from the Doer government at all Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the to do with Kyoto. He is hanging Manitobans out Official Opposition, on a new question. to dry. Why is that? Why, when we understand that the federal government is planning to invoke Mr. Murray: On a new question, please. Mr. closure on Kyoto? The attitude in Ottawa of the Speaker, we have repeatedly asked the federal Liberals is: We know what is best for Government, the Doer government, to outline Canadians and, no, we cannot provide the details the effects ratifying the Kyoto accord will have of our plan for Kyoto and the impact it will have on the Manitoba economy, on the pocketbooks on the Canadian economy. of everyday Manitobans. We have asked for a sectoral analysis that shows on an industry-by- They say: Trust us. Well, the same attitude industry analysis the costs of ratifying the Kyoto they have toward their plans for the federal gun accord. We have asked what it will cost for the registry. We all know how big of a boondoggle Manitoba government to build an east-west that has been for Canadians. power grid, what it will cost Manitobans to build Conawapa and the cost to Manitobans of Other premiers on Kyoto have stood up and expanding the ethanol industry. said we cannot agree on Kyoto until there is evidence of the impact it will have on Canada. Manitobans have literally hundreds and Yet this Premier has stood idly by and supported hundreds of questions about Kyoto, Mr. Speaker, it. I say the plan of action we need should ensure but instead of providing Manitobans the answer, December 9, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 325 the details they need in order to make an Mr.
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