COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SENATE Official Hansard

WEDNESDAY, 1 MAY 1996

THIRTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—FIRST PERIOD

BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE CANBERRA CONTENTS

WEDNESDAY, 1 MAY

Petitions— East Timor ...... 77 Chemicals ...... 77 Logging and Woodchipping ...... 77 Croatia ...... 77 Landmines ...... 78 Landmines ...... 78 Religion and Democracy in Australia ...... 78 French Nuclear Testing ...... 78 French Nuclear Testing ...... 78 Uranium ...... 78 Papua New Guinea ...... 79 Child Care ...... 79 Notices of Motion— ABC: Funding ...... 79 Tariff Concessions ...... 79 Federal Election: New South Wales ...... 79 Racial Discrimination ...... 80 BHP Petroleum ...... 80 Australian Taxation Office ...... 80 Contingent Notices of Motion ...... 81 Kew Cottages ...... 81 Immigration ...... 81 Vietnam: Human Rights ...... 81 Diesel Fuel Rebate Scheme ...... 82 Boxing ...... 82 Uranium Mining and Milling Committee ...... 82 Impacts of Uranium Mining and Milling in Kakadu National Park Committee ...... 83 Temporary Chairmen of Committees ...... 85 Order of Business— Procedure Committee ...... 85 Introduction of Legislation ...... 85 Public Interest Secrecy Committee ...... 85 Great Famine in Ireland ...... 85 Committees— Privileges Committee ...... 85 Order of Business— Delegated Legislation ...... 86 Sri Lanka ...... 86 Deaths at Port Arthur ...... 86 Order of Business— Consideration ...... 86 Restoration of Bills to Notice Paper ...... 86 Committees— Allocation of Departments and Agencies ...... 87 Code of Conduct ...... 87 Days and Hours of Meeting ...... 87 Introduction of Legislation ...... 87 Health Legislation (Powers of Investigation) Amendment Bill 1996 .... 88 Therapeutic Goods Amendment Bill 1996— First Reading ...... 89 Second Reading ...... 89 Governor-General’s Speech— Address-in-Reply ...... 92 Temporary Chairmen of Committees ...... 104 Proposed Sessional Orders ...... 104 CONTENTS—continued

Questions Without Notice— Election Promises ...... 117 Australian Labor Party: Policies ...... 117 Information Technology ...... 118 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs ...... 119 Election of Senator ...... 121 Budget Deficit ...... 122 ATSIC: Geneva Office ...... 123 ABC: Funding ...... 124 Sale of Telstra ...... 125 Commonwealth Ombudsman ...... 126 Environment ...... 127 Australian Securities Commission ...... 128 Small Business Summit ...... 128 Worksafe Australia ...... 129 Election Promises ...... 130 Sale of Telstra ...... 132 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs ...... 134 ABC: Funding ...... 135 Ministerial Statements— New Format for Bills and Acts ...... 136 Documents— Australian-Lebanese Support Committee of Lebanon ...... 137 Committees— Community Affairs Legislation Committee ...... 137 Order of Business ...... 138 Documents— Christmas Island: Casino ...... 138 Christmas Island: Commonwealth Grants Commission Report ...... 138 Committees— Environment, Recreation, Communications and the Arts References Committee—Report ...... 139 Finance and Public Administration References Committee—Report . . 144 Community Affairs References Committee—Report ...... 146 Governor-General’s Speech— Address-in-Reply ...... 150 Distinguished Visitors ...... 160 Proposed Sessional Orders ...... 161 Consideration of Legislation ...... 161 Sessional Orders ...... 161 Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 1996— First Reading ...... 161 Second Reading ...... 161 Governor-General’s Speech— Address-in-Reply ...... 165 Adjournment— Deaths at Port Arthur ...... 184 Inter-Parliamentary Union Conference in Instanbul ...... 186 Pork Producers in Queensland ...... 187 Condolences: Marguerite Tetuanui ...... 188 Documents— Government Documents ...... 188 Indexed Lists ...... 189 SENATE 77

Wednesday, 1 May 1996 Your petitioners therefore request the Senate to: immediately implement the moratorium clause in the 1992 National Forest Policy Statement, and cease all logging activities in high conserva- The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. tion value forests; Michael Beahan) took the chair at 10.00 a.m., and read prayers. permanently protect in reserves, all old growth, wilderness, and other high conservation value PETITIONS forest areas, under the custodianship of Austral- ian indigenous peoples, in cooperation with local The Clerk—Petitions have been lodged for communities, conservation and scientific organi- presentation as follows: sations; reap only what is sown by utilising readily East Timor available plantation timbers for industry needs; To the Honourable the President and Members of rapidly implement timber industry transition the Senate in the Parliament assembled. from native forests to plantations, with provision The Petition of the undersigned draws to the for retraining, redeployment, and compensation attention of the Senate Indonesia’s continued denial if necessary for affected workers and contractors; of human rights to the people of East Timor. restructure the paper and fibre board industries Your Petitioners ask the Senate to call on the to use annual fibre crops such as kenaf, hemp, Australian Government to: cane etc. 1. actively support all United Nations resolutions create employment incentives to collect seeds, and initiatives on East Timor; propagate, establish and manage sustainable permaculture-style mixed species timber planta- 2. actively support the right to self-determination tions, on existing cleared and degraded lands, of the people of East Timor; and encourage investment in the growing and 3. work for the immediate release of all Timorese marketing of indigenous forest products, such as political prisoners; native fruits, nuts, berries, seeds, oils, and other nutritional and medicinal resources. 4. repeal the Timor Gap Treaty; and develop educational environmental tourism as 5. stop all military cooperation and commercial a sensitively managed industry, in appropriate military activity with Indonesia. forest areas, with full respect for Aboriginal by Senator Bell (from 15 citizens). cultural heritage and sacred sites; and further support the above initiatives by the Chemicals progressive utilisation of defence personnel, To the Honourable the President and members of resources and funding, to assist rural communi- the Senate in Parliament assembled. ties to implement sustainable plantation forestry practices. We the undersigned respectfully call upon the Federal Government to introduce legislation that And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever will require the National Registration Authority to pray. provide all available information on registered chemicals. by Senator Bell (from 81 citizens). by Senator Bell (from 15 citizens). Croatia Logging and Woodchipping To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled: To the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled The Petition of certain Australian citizens draws to the attention of the Senate the need to establish an This Petition of the undersigned Australian Australian Embassy in the Republic of Croatia: citizens respectfully points out that: because of the many difficulties experienced There is an urgent demand from the majority of by Australian citizens accessing limited consular Australians for immediate Federal Government services when travelling through Croatia; intervention, to comply with the United Nations Biodiversity Convention to which Australia is a because of the limited consular services in signatory, and protect the remaining high conserva- Croatia, requiring Australian citizens to visit the tion value forest areas which support flora and Australian Embassy in Austria, incurring travel- fauna unique to Australia. ling and other costs; and 78 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

to establish and maintain economic and (ii) that any syllabus prepared on the teaching of political ties, for the mutual benefit of Australia Civics and Citizenship should include the contribu- and the Republic of Croatia. tion of people of religious conviction highlighting Your Petitioners respectfully request that the Senate their religious motivation; should: (iii) that funds be allocated to ensure that teach- Take appropriate and immediate action to ers are given in-service training on their role of establish an Australian Embassy in the Republic religious influences in the development of Austral- of Croatia ian democracy; and (iv) that materials are produced to support the by Senator Harradine (from 4,800 citizens). above for use in the classroom. Landmines by Senator Kemp (from 95 citizens) and To the Honourable the President and Members of Senator Woodley (from 1,504 citizens). the Senate in Parliament assembled: The Petition of the undersigned shows that we French Nuclear Testing citizens of Australia support a world-wide ban on To the Honourable President and Members of the the production, stockpiling and use of all forms of Senate in Parliament assembled. anti-personnel land mines. We, the undersigned, wish to lodge our protest Your Petitioners request that the Senate support in the strongest possible terms against the resump- our call for a world-wide ban on the production, tion of Nuclear Testing. Therefore we request: stockpiling and use of all forms of anti-personnel land mines, give high priority to support for efforts 1. the immediate and permanent cessation of to clear land mines in affected countries and use its mining and the export of Uranium as a signal to all influence to encourage other countries to financially nations that we will not accept nuclear weapons in support the clearance of land mines in poor count- any form, ries. 2. the use of all means possible to dissuade France and any other nation from Nuclear Weapons by Senator Minchin (from 171 citizens). Testing, Landmines 3. that the Minister for Foreign Affairs make a To the Honourable the President and Members of submission arguing the illegality of Nuclear the Senate in Parliament assembled: Weapons to the International Court of Justice. The Petition of the undersigned shows that we by Senator Kernot (from 198 citizens) and citizens of Australia support the Government’s Senator Reynolds (from 22 citizens). efforts to assist nations with the clearing of land mines and also support a world-wide ban on the French Nuclear Testing production, stockpiling and use of all forms of anti- personnel land mines. To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled: Your Petitioners request that the Senate support our call for a world-wide ban on the production, The petition of the undersigned expresses the stockpiling and use of all forms of anti-personnel widespread community outrage throughout Austral- land mines, give priority to expanding Australia’s ia at the decision of the French Government to support for mine clearance in affected countries and resume nuclear testing in the South Pacific. use its influence to encourage other countries to Your petitioners ask that the Senate note and give greater support to mine clearance efforts. endorse the concerns expressed in this petition and convey to the French Parliament in the strongest by Senator Panizza (from 44 citizens) and terms Australia’s opposition to this decision. Senator Reynolds (from 285 citizens). by Senator Panizza (from 243 citizens). Religion and Democracy in Australia Uranium To the Honourable the President and Members of To the honourable the President and members of the Senate in the Parliament assembled: the Senate in Parliament assembled. The humble The petition of the undersigned requests: petition of the undersigned citizens of Australia (i) that those of religious conviction who have respectfully showeth: contributed to the development of Australia should That your petitioners request that the Australian be recognised in the study of Australian history to Government take steps immediately to stop the ensure that a balanced history is taught; mining and export of uranium Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 79

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever That the Senate— pray. (a) notes: by Senator Panizza (from 270 citizens). (i) the strong support for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) and all Papua New Guinea its charter activities shown by all mem- To the Honourable the President and Members of bers of the former Senate Select Commit- the Senate in Parliament assembled: tee on ABC Management and Operations, chaired in the previous Parliament by The petition of the undersigned recognises that Senator Alston, and there is an urgent need for Papua New Guinea to (ii) the evidence given by ABC management address their economic ills. This needs to occur that funding for the ABC has not been with the involvement of the people of that country maintained in real terms; and so a model of development that is appropriate socially and environmentally is adopted. (b) reaffirms the committee’s conclusions that: (i) the committee supports the maintenance Your petitioners request that the Senate should of ABC funding at least at its current direct the executive director representing Australia level and the continuation of the triennial at the World Bank, Mr Peter Nichols, work for the funding arrangements, renegotiation of the Structural Adjustment Program that has been imposed on PNG by the World Bank (ii) the continued exemption from the effi- and International Monetary Fund, with the support ciency dividend helps provide greater of the Australian government. Further we request planning certainty for the ABC’s capital that the National Coalition for Socio-Economic works program and is therefore supported Justice, representing trade unions and community by the committee, and groups opposing the current SAPs, be consulted on (iii) the committee supports the maintenance adjustment measures advocated by the international of current funding levels in real terms and finance institutions. would support favourable consideration of any application for the provision of addi- by Senator Panizza (from 19 citizens). tional funds to ensure the viability of new parliamentary and ABC approved charter Child Care activities. To the Honourable the President and Senators in Parliament assembled: Tariff Concessions The petition of the undersigned shows: the unjust Senator McKIERNAN (Western Austral- and inequitable nature of the Government’s policy ia)—I give notice that, on the next day of to restrict Childcare Assistance where a parent is sitting, I shall move: outside the workforce to 12 hours per week. This That the Senate— policy will cause hardship to lower income fami- (a) notes: lies, to the children of those families, and child care workers. The Government should be con- (i) the letter forwarded to all members of the demned for breaking its promise to ensure access Commonwealth Parliament of Australia and affordability in child care. by the Association of Mining and Explor- ation Companies (AMEC), dated 26 April Under the Government’s policy parents will have 1996, regarding the tariff concession to pay full cost fees after 12 hours of childcare per system, and week if one parent is outside the workforce. This (ii) that AMEC states in that letter that the will widen the gap between rich and poor, and abolition of this tariff concession will many child care workers may lose their jobs. effectively create a 5 per cent tax on Your petitioners therefore ask that the Senate production which flies in the face of the should oppose the passage of this Bill into law. statement by the Minister for Primary Industries and Energy (Mr Anderson) on by Senator Troeth (from 23 citizens). 17 March 1996, that ‘we’re not about Petitions received. taxes on production’; and (b) condemns the Howard Government for this NOTICES OF MOTION blatant deception of the Australian people. ABC: Funding Federal Election: New South Wales Senator BOURNE (New South Wales)—I Senator TIERNEY (New South Wales)—I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move: shall move: 80 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

That the Senate— Petroleum’s offshore safety arrangements, (a) notes that: jointly announced by the Federal Minister for Resources (Senator Parer), the West- (i) the Liberal and National Party Coalition ern Australian Minister for Mines and won an overwhelming victory in the State Energy (Mr Cash) and the Northern of New South Wales at the federal elec- Territory Minister for Mines and Energy tion held on 2 March 1996, and (Mr Reed) on 3 April 1996, only requires (ii) 19 Liberal candidates and 10 National the investigator to specifically examine Party candidates won federal seats con- and report on an incident on board the tested in New South Wales; BHP Petroleum vessel Griffin Venture in (b) congratulates the three new Liberal women January 1996, omitting all mention of the members who won seats in New South incident in May 1994, Wales , namely, Danna Vale (Hughes), (ii) that there has been no response from the Joanna Gash (Gilmore) and Jackie Kelly Minister for Resources in relation to the (Lindsay); six statutory declarations by crewmen (c) notes that electors in northern New South who were on board the Griffin Venture Wales have elected to the Central Coast seat during the 1994 gas-freeing incident, of Robertson Liberal Member of Parliament, which were tabled in the Senate on 30 Mr Lloyd, and in the Hunter Valley elector- November 1995, and ate of Paterson, Liberal Member of Parlia- (iii) that there is no reference in the terms of ment, Mr Baldwin; reference to recent events on the BHP (d) extends congratulations to Senator-elect, Ms Petroleum vessel Jabiru Venture which Coonan, who has won a New South Wales also involved serious procedural short- Senate seat; and comings during potentially dangerous gas- (e) acknowledges that the State of New South freeing operations; Wales overwhelmingly supports the policies (b) calls on the Minister for Resources to of the Howard Government, as 29 of the 50 require the chief investigator, Dr Barrell, to seats in New South Wales were secured by fully examine and report on all relevant candidates supporting those policies. incidents, including that reported by the Second Mate of the Griffin Venture, Mr Tim Racial Discrimination Visscher, in May 1994; and Senator REYNOLDS (Queensland)—I give (c) if is is not satisfactorily complied with, calls notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall on the Government to establish an independ- move: ent judicial inquiry assisted by a profession- That the Senate— al engineer, with expertise in the petroleum industry, who is acceptable to Mr Visscher, (a) condemns the use of any racial material to the Federal and State authorities involved in manipulate public opinion during election the previous investigations, and BHP Petro- campaigns; leum. (b) reminds parliamentarians that they are elected to represent all of their constituents Australian Taxation Office and that it is totally reprehensible for any Senator WEST (New South Wales)—I give parliamentarian to announce they will refuse to represent a particular group; and notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move: (c) considers developing a code of race ethics to be observed by all members of the na- That the Senate— tional parliament in the interest of com- (a) notes: munity harmony. (i) with concern, the recent announcement by BHP Petroleum the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) of Senator MARGETTS (Western Austral- the closure of 15 regional tax offices, ia)—I give notice that, on the next day of (ii) the failure of the Coalition Government sitting, I shall move: to intervene to ensure that services are retained in rural and regional areas; and That the Senate— (b) calls on the Government to direct the ATO (a) notes: to reverse the decision to close the offices (i) with concern, that the terms of reference and to ensure that services such as these are of the current independent review of BHP maintained in rural and regional Australia. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 81

Contingent Notices of Motion (b) expresses the view that the men who died, their families, the staff at Kew Cottages, Senator BOSWELL (Queensland—Leader and the residents who survived and their of the National Party of Australia in the families deserve nothing less than a full in- Senate)—I give contingent notices of motion, quiry into the conditions at Kew Cottages the terms of which have been circulated in the which led to the fire and to the deaths of chamber and which I now give to the Clerk. nine residents; and The contingent notices of motion read as (c) calls on the Premier of Victoria (Mr Ken- nett) to establish an independent judicial follows— inquiry into the underlying causes of the fire No. 1—To move (contingent on the Senate on and into the ongoing conditions endured by any day concluding its consideration of any item those Victorians still living in institutions or of business and prior to the Senate proceeding to congregate care facilities. the consideration of another item of business)— That so much of the standing orders be sus- Immigration pended as would prevent the Senator moving Senator SPINDLER (Victoria)—I give a motion relating to the conduct of the busi- notice that, on 8 May 1996, I shall move: ness of the Senate or to provide for the con- sideration of any other matter. That the Senate calls on the Federal Government: No. 2—To move (contingent on the Senate (a) to facilitate speedy processing and entry to proceeding to the consideration of Government Australia, within Australia’s normal immi- documents)— gration intake, of those asylum seekers who are the spouses and dependent children of That so much of the standing orders relating Vietnamese asylum seekers who have been to the consideration of Government documents granted permanent residence in Australia be suspended as would prevent the Senator and to hold urgent talks to this end with the moving a motion relating to the order in which Governments of Thailand, Malaysia, Indo- the documents are called on by the President. nesia, Hong Kong and the Philippines; No. 3—To move (contingent on the moving of (b) not to accept the refugee determinations a motion to debate a matter of urgency under carried out by other countries in the region standing order 75)— under the Comprehensive Plan of Action That so much of the standing orders be sus- (CPA) for the resettlement of refugees pended as would prevent a Senator moving an supervised by the United Nations High amendment to the motion. Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in No. 4—To move (contingent on the President view of consistent reports of the deficiencies proceeding to the placing of business on any of the processes employed by these count- day)— ries, but to undertake its own assessment of That so much of the standing orders be sus- asylum seekers applying for refugee status; pended as would prevent the Senator moving (c) to undertake a review of the CPA proced- a motion relating to the order of business on ures used under UNHCR supervision with the Notice Paper. a view to assessing whether the UNHCR No. 5—To move (contingent on any Senator has properly discharged its responsibility for being refused leave to make a statement to the refugee protection and, if it has not, recom- Senate)— mending actions to ensure that the UNHCR That so much of the standing orders be sus- take appropriate corrective actions; and pended as would prevent that Senator making (d) to report to the Senate on the findings of that statement. such a review by 29 May 1996. Kew Cottages Vietnam: Human Rights Senator LEES (South Australia—Deputy Senator CHAMARETTE (Western Aust- Leader of the Australian Democrats)—I give ralia)—I give notice that, on the next day of notice that, three sitting days from today, I sitting, I shall move: shall move: That the Senate— That the Senate— (a) notes that: (a) extends its deepest sympathy to the families of the nine men with intellectual disabilities (i) 30 April 1996 marks the 21st anniversary who died in the fire at Kew Cottages in of the fall of Saigon and the anniversary Melbourne on 8 April 1996; of the end of the Vietnam War, and 82 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

(ii) the hopes for a free and democratic People’s Republic of China: Wei society in Vietnam have not been fulfil- Jingsheng led; Senator CHAMARETTE (Western Aus- (b) welcomes the enormous contribution made to Australian society by many thousands of tralia)—I give notice that, on the next day of Vietnamese people who fled their homeland sitting, I shall move: in the aftermath of the war; That the Senate— (c) expresses concern over evidence of the (a) expresses grave concern over the recent trial suppression of religious freedom and the of democracy activist Wei Jingsheng in the denial of some human rights; and People’s Republic of China; (d) calls on the Australian Government to (b) notes that: establish a human rights dialogue with the (i) the trial lasted only 1 day, and Government of Vietnam to resolve such outstanding matters. (ii) Wei Jingsheng was sentenced to 14 years in prison; and Diesel Fuel Rebate Scheme (c) calls on the Australian Government: Senator McKIERNAN (Western Austral- (i) to establish a dialogue with the Govern- ia)—I give notice that, on the next day of ment of the People’s Republic of China on human rights as a matter of urgency, sitting, I shall move: and That the Senate— (ii) to make representations to the Govern- (a) notes the letter from the Association of ment of the People’s Republic of China Mining and Exploration Companies seeking Wei Jingsheng’s release. (AMEC) of 30 April 1996, regarding the diesel fuel rebate scheme; Uranium Mining and Milling Committee (b) notes that AMEC states that the removal of Senator MARGETTS (Western Austral- the diesel fuel rebate scheme and the re- ia)—I give notice that, on the next day of moval of the 5 per cent tariff concession sitting, I shall move: would, as an end result, represent a new tax (1) That the select committee known as the on the mining industry of $850 million per Select Committee on the Dangers of Radio- annum; active Waste, appointed by resolution of the (c) commends AMEC for its recognition of the Senate on 9 March 1995, be re-appointed, fact that the Howard Government’s election with the same functions and powers, except promise ‘that no new taxes would be levied as otherwise provided in this resolution. on business’ can be seen not only to be (2) That the committee be known as the Select hollow, but also to be a fabrication of the Committee on Uranium Mining and Milling. truth. (3) That the committee inquire into and report on the environmental impact, health and Boxing safety and other implications and effective- Senator CROWLEY (South Australia)—I ness of security agreements in relation to give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I the mining, milling and export of Australian shall move: uranium. (4) That in considering these terms of reference That, following yet another head injury in the the committee is to take into account, and boxing ring, the Senate— where necessary report on, the following (a) most seriously regrets this latest injury and issues: conveys its sympathy on the death of Lance (a) the environmental impact of uranium Hobson, to his family and to the other mining and milling in Australia and the boxer; and effectiveness of environmental protection (b) calls on: and monitoring in relation to existing and (i) the Australian Boxing Federation to previous Australian uranium mining immediately ban all punching and blows operations; to the head in boxing, and (b) the role of the Office of the Supervising (ii) the Minister for Sport, Territories and Scientist in monitoring Australian urani- Local Government (Mr Smith) and the um mining and milling activities; Australian Sporting Commission to sup- (c) the health and safety implications of port such a ban. uranium mining and milling for workers Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 83

at mining and milling sites and workers (11) That the committee report to the Senate involved in the transport and handling of on or before the last day of sitting of uranium and uranium waste; 1996. (d) the health, safety and other effects of Impacts of Uranium Mining and Milling uranium mining and milling on communi- in Kakadu National Park Committee ties adjacent to mine and mill sites and communities on existing or planned Senator FAULKNER (New South Wales— transport routes for uranium ore and Leader of the Opposition in the Senate)—I uranium waste; give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I (e) the effectiveness of Australia’s bilateral shall move that a select committee to be agreements with countries importing known as the Select Committee on the Im- Australian uranium, in ensuring that pacts of Uranium Mining and Milling in Australian-sourced uranium is not used in military nuclear technology or nuclear Kakadu National Park be established. The weapons testing activities; and details of this proposal are set out in the notice I now circulate. (f) the volume and location of Australian- obligated plutonium currently in existence Senator Hill—That almost would suggest in the international nuclear fuel cycle there is no point in giving notices of motion (produced as a result of the use of Aus- at all if we are going to get into this practice tralian uranium), in what form it exists (for example, separated or in spent nu- of just circulating them and saying that they clear fuel), and its intended end use. have been circulated. That has been the practice in relation to formal matters or (5) That the committee have the power to consider and use for its purposes the procedural motions and there is no problem minutes of evidence and records of the with that. But if you are seeking something as Select Committee on the Dangers of Radio- important as setting up a select committee active Waste appointed in the previous into uranium mining and milling, then I think Parliament. you should at least tell us what the objects (6) That the committee consist of seven sena- and purposes of your proposal are in the same tors: way as the Greens did, because we are par- (a) three nominated by the Leader of the ticularly interested to work out where the Government in the Senate; Greens sit vis-a-vis the Labor Party on this (b) two nominated by the Leader of the particular issue. Opposition in the Senate; Senator Robert Ray—Give them a bonus; (c) one nominated by the Leader of the read the lot. Australian Democrats; and Senator Hill—You can read the lot if you (d) one nominated by the Greens (WA) or Independent Senators. like. (7) That the chair of the committee be elected The PRESIDENT—Order! It is a common by the members of the committee. practice for select committees to be dealt with (8) That the quorum of the committee be three in this way because of the complexity of the members with one representing the Govern- motions. But if you want him to read it, I am ment, one representing the Opposition and sure he can. one representing either the Australian Democrats, the Greens (WA) or Independent Senator FAULKNER—I am more than Senators. happy, given the churlishness of Senator Hill, who obviously got out on the wrong side of (9) That the chair is authorised to make state- ments to the media on behalf of the com- bed this morning, to read the details. This is mittee concerning its activities, without a most unprecedented call by Senator Hill. disclosing confidential proceedings of the Senator Robert Ray—Just because you did committee. badly on Lateline, don’t get churlish. (10) That each statement to the committee by a person in relation to the inquiry be Senator FAULKNER—Very, very poor, I published only after a resolution to that understand, describes the same. As I indicat- effect by the committee. ed, the details of this proposal are: 84 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

(1) That a select committee to be known as the (a) the cumulative risks to the environment Select Committee on the Impacts of Urani- of further mining and milling; um Mining and Milling in Kakadu National (b) the social and economic impact of urani- Park be established. um mining and milling on Aboriginal (2) That the committee inquire into and report communities; on the following issues in relation to propo- (c) the adequacy of current impact assess- sals for further uranium mining and milling ment processes, in particular whether they in and adjacent to Kakadu National Park, cover the social and economic impacts of with particular reference to the Jabiluka and the proposals; Koongarra project areas: (d) the occupational health and safety impli- Senator Robert Ray—If you speak a bit cations for workers at mining sites and slower, Senator Kemp may pick up what you those involved in the transport and han- are saying. dling of uranium and uranium waste, (In Senator FAULKNER—No, he is grunting considering this term of reference, the committee should have regard to the as a matter of fact. I am just not clear what adequacy of the applicable occupational the grunts mean. health and safety laws, and the mecha- Senator MacGibbon—Mr President, I rise nisms for their enforcement); on a point of order. The Governor-General (e) the health and safety implications for the made very clear yesterday that there were residents of communities adjacent to mine different standards applying in this chamber. and mill sites, and existing or proposed transport routes for uranium ore and We have an allegation of churlishness by the waste, (In considering this term of refer- Leader of the Opposition about Senator Hill’s ence, the committee should have regard behaviour. Now we have the attribution of to the adequacy of the applicable laws, animal tendencies to Senator Kemp. I ask that and the mechanisms for their enforce- the Leader of the Opposition conforms to the ment); accepted standards. (f) the implications of further mining and Senator FAULKNER—On the point of milling on the world heritage values of the Kakadu National Park, Northern order: it is usual in this chamber for any Territory; senator to give a notice of motion and, in the (g) the consistency of any proposed projects interests of seeing the business dealt with with the Precautionary Principle and expeditiously, to seek to circulate the notice. Australia’s international treaty obligations That is a normal practice—a normal proced- under, for example, the Biodiversity ure in this chamber, which I sought to comply Convention, the World Heritage Conven- with to save this chamber time. It was churl- tion, and the Ramsar Convention; ish of Senator Hill. Senator Hill is well aware (h) the risks associated with the long-term that what I did was not only in order but also storage of radioactive waste in Australia to assist the Senate deal with important deriving from uranium mining and matters— milling; and (i) the adequacy of the steps the Austral- Senator Hill—You’re embarrassed by the ian Government takes to satisfy itself three mines policy, aren’t you? that sufficient efforts are being made in Senator FAULKNER—And even give you customer countries to overcome the an opportunity to get your act together on the difficulties in disposing of waste which will arise from the use of Australian procedures. uranium. The PRESIDENT—Order! I was hoping (3) That the committee report to the Senate on that we would start a little better than this. I or before 25 November 1996. take the point that Senator MacGibbon makes. (4) That the committee consist of eight sena- I was asking Senator Faulkner to get back to tors: the notice and I ask you to do that now, (a) three nominated by the Leader of the senator. Government in the Senate; Senator FAULKNER—Thank you, Mr (b) three nominated by the Leader of the President: Opposition in the Senate; Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 85

(c) one nominated by the Leader of the ommendations arising from its inquiry, Australian Democrats; and and may make regular reports on the (d) one nominated by the Greens (WA) or progress of its proceedings. Independent Senators. TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF (5) That the chair of the committee be elected COMMITTEES by members of the committee. (6) That the deputy chair of the committee be The PRESIDENT—Pursuant to standing elected by and from the members of the order 12, I lay on the table my warrant committee immediately after the appoint- nominating Senators Calvert, Chapman, ment of the chair. Ferguson, Knowles, Patterson, Teague and (7) That the deputy chair act as chair when Watson as temporary chairmen of committees there is no chair or the chair is not present when the Deputy President and Chairman of at a meeting. Committees is absent. (8) That in the event of the votes on any ques- tion before the committee being equally ORDER OF BUSINESS divided, the chair, or the deputy chair when Procedure Committee acting as chair, have a casting vote. (9) That the quorum of the committee be three Motion (by Senator Kemp, at the request members with one representing the Govern- of Senator Hill) agreed to: ment, one representing the Opposition and That government business notice of motion No. one representing either the Australian 6 standing in the name of Senator Hill for this day, Democrats, the Greens (WA) or Independent relating to recommendations in three Procedure Senators. Committee reports for 1995, be postponed till the (10) That the committee may proceed to the next day of sitting. despatch of business notwithstanding that all members have not been duly nomi- Introduction of Legislation nated and appointed and notwithstanding Motion (by Senator Kemp, at the request any vacancy. of Senator Hill) agreed to: (11) That the committee and any subcommit- That government business notice of motion No. tee have power to send for and examine 8 standing in the name of Senator Hill for this day, persons and documents, to move from relating to the introduction of the Hazardous Waste place to place, to sit in public or in pri- (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment vate, notwithstanding any prorogation of Bill 1996, be postponed till the next day of sitting. the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives. Public Interest Secrecy Committee (12) That the committee have power to ap- Motion (by Senator Bourne, at the request point subcommittees consisting of three of Senator Kernot) agreed to: or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters That general business notice of motion No. 1 which the committee is empowered to standing in the name of Senator Kernot for this consider, and that the quorum of a sub- day, relating to the establishment of a select committee be a majority of the Senators committee of party leaders on public interest appointed to the subcommittee. secrecy, be postponed till 20 May 1996. (13) That the committee be provided with all Great Famine in Ireland necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons Motion (by Senator Cooney) agreed to: with specialist knowledge for the pur- That general business notice of motion No. 6 poses of the committee, with the approval standing in the name of Senator Cooney for this of the President. day, relating to the 150th anniversary of the great (14) That the committee be empowered to famine in Ireland, be postponed till the next day of print from day to day such documents and sitting. evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such COMMITTEES proceedings as take place in public. Privileges Committee (15) That the committee may report from time to time its proceedings and evidence Senator TEAGUE (South Australia) (10.27 taken or any interim conclusions or rec- a.m.)—by leave—I move: 86 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

That the Senate— ORDER OF BUSINESS 1. Endorse the finding at paragraph 10 of the 58th report of the Committee of Privileges. Consideration 2. Adopt the recommendation contained in the Motion (by Senator Kemp, at the request 59th report of the Committee of Privileges. of Senator Hill) agreed to: I have moved these motions on behalf of the That standing order 3(4) be suspended to enable Committee of Privileges of the last parlia- the Senate to consider business other than that of ment. They relate to two reports of the com- a formal character before the address-in-reply to the Governor-General’s opening speech has been mittee on Senate proceedings which were not adopted. completed before the prorogation of the parliament earlier this year. Each report was RESTORATION OF BILLS TO NOTICE unanimous. The first motion asks the Senate PAPER to endorse a committee finding that no con- Motion (by Senator Bourne, at the request tempt of the Senate was involved in a matter of Senator Kernot) agreed to: referred to it, while the second recommends that a right of reply be incorporated in Hans- (1) That so much of standing orders be sus- pended as would prevent the succeeding ard. My statements on each matter were provision of this resolution having effect. included in the Hansards for the days on which I tabled the reports. (2) That the following bills be restored to the Notice Paper and that consideration of each I ask that the motions be listed separately, of the bills be resumed at the stage reached and seek leave to continue my remarks when in the last session of the Parliament: committee reports are considered at a later Air Navigation Amendment (Extension of hour today. Curfew and Limitation of Aircraft Movements) Leave granted; debate adjourned. Bill 1995 Australian Centennial National Rail Transport ORDER OF BUSINESS Development Bill 1990 [1993] Commonwealth Electoral (Printing, Publishing Delegated Legislation and Distribution of Electoral Matters) Amend- Motion (by Senator Chamarette,atthe ment Bill 1990 [1993] request of Senator Harradine) agreed to: Constitution Alteration (Appropriations for the That general business notice of motion No. 5 Ordinary Annual Services of the Government) standing in the name of Senator Harradine for this Bill 1987 [1993] day, relating to the restoration of the Acts Inter- Constitution Alteration (Ecology, Diversity and pretation (Delegated Legislation) Amendment Bill Sustainability) Bill 1995 1991 to the Notice Paper, be postponed till the next day of sitting. Constitution Alteration (Electors’ Initiative) Bill 1989 [1993] Sri Lanka Constitution Alteration (Fixed Term Parlia- Motion (by Senator Woodley) agreed to: ments) Bill 1987 [1993] That general business notice of motion No. 4 Constitution Alteration (Qualifications and standing in the name of Senator Woodley for this Disqualifications of Members of the Parlia- day, relating to Sri Lanka, be postponed till 20 May ment) Bill 1992 [1993] 1996. Defence Amendment Bill 1988 [1993] DEATHS AT PORT ARTHUR Delegated Legislation Review Bill 1988 [1993] The PRESIDENT—It being 10.30 a.m., I Federal Court (Grouped Proceedings) Bill ask all senators to stand in silence for one 1989 [1993] minute to participate in the national mourning Income Tax Assessment (Housing Loan for the victims of the Port Arthur tragedy. Interest) Amendment Bill 1989 [No.2] [1993] Honourable senators having risen in their Income Tax Assessment (Savings Accounts Interest) Amendment Bill 1989 [No.2] [1993] places— Motor Vehicles Standards (Emission Quotas) The PRESIDENT—I thank the Senate. Amendment Bill 1990 [1993] Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 87

National Residue Survey Administration (Cost Finance and Public Administration Sharing) Amendment Bill 1993 Parliament Nuclear Non-Proliferation (Exports) Bill 1988 Prime Minister and Cabinet [1993] Finance (including Administrative Services) Nuclear Power, Uranium Enrichment and Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Reprocessing (Prohibition) Bill 1993 Foreign Affairs and Trade Parliamentary Approval of Treaties Bill 1995 Defence (including Veterans’ Affairs) Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry (Security of Australia) Bill 1994 Legal and Constitutional Parliamentary Privileges Amendment (Enforce- Attorney-General ment of Lawful Orders) Bill 1994 Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Prohibition of Exportation Uranium to France Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport (Customs Act Amendment) Bill 1995 Primary Industries and Energy Radioactive Waste (Regulation of Exports and Transport and Regional Development. Imports) Bill 1992 [1993] CODE OF CONDUCT Sexuality Discrimination Bill 1995 Tax Legislation Amendment (Fiscal Responsi- Motion (by Senator Bourne, at the request bility) Bill 1993 of Senator Kernot) agreed to: Toxic Chemicals (Community Right to Know) That the General Business order of the day Bill 1993 standing on the Notice Paper of 30 November 1995, relating to a code of conduct for senators, be World Heritage Properties Conservation restored to the Notice Paper as an order of the day (Protection of Exit Cave, Tasmania) Amend- for the next day of sitting. ment Bill 1992 [1993] DAYS AND HOURS OF MEETING COMMITTEES Motion (by Senator Kemp, at the request Allocation of Departments and Agencies of Senator Hill) agreed to: Motion (by Senator Kemp, at the request That the days of meeting of the Senate from of Senator Hill) agreed to: Wednesday, 1 May 1996, for the remainder of the winter sittings, be as follows: That the order of the Senate of 24 August 1994 for the allocation of departments to and consider- Wednesday 1 May to Thursday 2 May ation of annual reports by the legislative and Monday 6 May to Thursday 9 May general purpose standing committees be amended Monday 20 May to Thursday 23 May by leaving out paragraph (1) and inserting the Monday 27 May to Thursday 30 May following paragraph: Monday 17 June to Thursday 20 June (1) That departments and agencies be allocated to the legislative and general purpose stand- Monday 24 June to Thursday 27 June. ing committees as follows: INTRODUCTION OF LEGISLATION Community Affairs Senator KEMP (Victoria—Parliamentary Health and Family Services Secretary to the Minister for Social Social Security Security)—I ask that government business Economics notice of motion No. 7 be taken as formal. Treasury The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Is there any Industry, Science and Tourism objection to this motion being taken as for- mal? Industrial Relations Senator FAULKNER (New South Employment, Education and Training Wales—Leader of the Opposition in the Employment, Education, Training and Youth Senate)—by leave—It is not necessarily an Affairs objection. Through you, Madam Deputy Environment, Recreation, Communications and President, I ask Senator Kemp if there are any the Arts changes in relation to these bills and, if there Environment, Sport and Territories are, what might be the nature of those chan- Communications and the Arts ges? I think we all understand they were 88 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 introduced by the previous government. I HEALTH LEGISLATION (POWERS think it would be useful for the Senate to OF INVESTIGATION) AMENDMENT know that before we deal with this issue. BILL 1996 Senator KEMP (Victoria—Parliamentary THERAPEUTIC GOODS Secretary to the Minister for Social Securi- AMENDMENT BILL 1996 ty)—by leave—The Therapeutic Goods Senator KEMP (Victoria—Manager of Amendment Bill 1996 is identical to the Government Business in the Senate)—I ask previous bill presented to the Senate with the that government business notices of motion exception of a numbering of small clauses. In Nos 9 and 10 be taken as formal. relation to the hazardous waste bill, I am advised that it is essentially the same. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Is it the wish of the Senate that they be dealt with Senator Robert Ray—Essentially! together? Senator Chamarette—No, objection. Senator Hill—It incorporates the amend- The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator ments you introduced on a subsequent date. Chamarette, there is some confusion here as It cleans up the mess in your last program. to whether you said you have no objection or whether you were objecting. Could you Senator Faulkner—I have just one further clarify your comments? question, to assist the Senate. Are copies of all the bills available? Senator Chamarette—I said ‘No’— comma—‘objection’. I simply should have Senator KEMP—Copies of the bills will said that I object to taking them both together not be available until they are introduced. and accepting them as formal. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Do you Senator CHAMARETTE (Western Aust- object to both of them being formal? ralia)—by leave—I rise to indicate that the Senator Chamarette—No, if No. 9 had WA Greens will not be supporting formality been taken as formal, I would have said of this motion for two reasons. First, we ‘objection’. If No. 10 had been taken as understand that it now concerns two bills formal, I would not have objected. rather than three because there has already been a postponement of the one in relation to The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—No. 9 is hazardous waste. The second reason we objected to. Do you wish to proceed with No. oppose formality—we are not opposing 10 on its own, Senator Kemp? discussing it at a later time—is that there is Senator PANIZZA (Western Australia)— a reason for concern about the Health Legisla- by leave—I do not know where we are going tion (Powers of Investigation) Amendment here. Bill. Senator West—You are supposed to know; you are the government. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Leave is refused for the bills to taken as formal bills. Senator PANIZZA—As far as the Greens Are there any further formal motions? go. This morning—the opposition whip will back this up—at the whips’ meeting no Senator Kemp—Just on a point of a objections were raised to those two being clarification: I am advised that copies of the taken as formal. The opposition whip was health bills were circulated to interested there and Senator Margetts was there. She senators or were available to interested sena- raised no objection. There was a question tors. raised earlier about whether the bills were the same. No objection was raised about formali- The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Thank you, ty. Now Senator Chamarette has the gall to Senator Kemp. Are there any other formal come in here and raise an objection at this notices of motion? stage. She ought to sort out which way she is Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 89 going and let her whip know what to say and Therefore, to come into the chamber and sug- do at the whips’ meetings. gest that we gave no indication that there was Senator CHAMARETTE (Western Aust- any problem is wrong. We said, ‘Are they all ralia)—I withdraw my objection to No. 9. I the same as the bills that had been introduced did not have an objection to No. 10. We can before?’ You said, ‘We will give you infor- proceed. My objection to No. 7 was the prob- mation.’ That is not the same as the bill that lem. was introduced before in the Senate. It is wrong for you to come into the chamber and The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—We shall suggest that I made an agreement in the proceed to government business notice of whips’ meeting, which I did not. motion No. 9. Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal? There being Senator KEMP (Victoria—Parliamentary no objection, I call Senator Kemp. Secretary to the Minister for Social Secur- ity)—by leave—I am advised that copies of First Reading the bill were provided on Monday to the Motion (by Senator Kemp) agreed to: shadow minister in the Labor Party, the That the following bills be introduced: Democrats, the Greens and to Senator A bill for an act to amend the Health Legislation Harradine. Of course, copies would be avail- (Powers of Investigation) Amendment Act 1994 able to others who wish to take part in this and the Human Services and Health Legislation debate. When did you ask for a copy of the Amendment Act (No. 3) 1995. bill, Senator Neal? A Bill for an Act to amend the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989, and for related purposes. Senator NEAL (New South Wales)—by Question resolved in the affirmative. leave—I made that request at approximately 5 o’clock yesterday afternoon and also re- Bills read a first time. quested a briefing. I have received no re- Senator Neal—I rise to a point of order. It sponse at this stage. was said before that those bills were available Senator Kemp—We will arrange that for to interested members. In fact, they are not you as soon as possible. available in the Table Office. I made a direct request to the minister’s office to supply both Second Reading copies of those bills, neither of which have yet arrived in my office. I would appreciate Senator KEMP (Victoria—Parliamentary being supplied with those. Secretary to the Minister for Social Security) (10.44 a.m.)—I table the explanatory memo- Senator Kemp—The bills are available randa relating to the bills. I move: once the bills are introduced in the Senate. That is the normal procedure, which I under- That these bills be now read a second time. stand was followed under the previous I seek leave to have the second reading government. speeches incorporated in Hansard. Senator Faulkner—I rise on a point of Leave granted. order, Madam Deputy President. We are very happy to hear Senator Kemp’s explanation, The speeches read as follows— but I do think he should seek leave to make it. HEALTH LEGISLATION (POWERS OF INVESTIGATION) AMENDMENT BILL 1996 Senator MARGETTS (Western Austral- ia)—by leave—Concerning the statement that This bill sets the scene for a co-operative approach has just been made by the government whip to legislation in this Parliament. The legislation about what was agreed and what was not before us today was initiated in the last Parliament and was supported by the Coalition. Today we are agreed at this morning’s whips’ meeting, I honouring this support and invite the Opposition’s said that there were problems with three bills continuing support of these amendments concerning and we had not received information about investigative powers held by the Health Insurance those three bills. That includes the health bill. Commission. 90 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

These powers permit the Health Insurance Commis- ions when the reason warranting the seizure no sion to obtain information and conduct searches in longer exists or a decision is made not to use the order to monitor compliance with Medicare guide- material in evidence. The item, therefore, aims to lines. They also enable the Commission to execute protect the interests and privacy of a medical search warrants and seize materials for the purposes practitioner who may come under investigation for of evidence. fraud. This legislation will enable the continuation of This bill establishes that certain measures should be these powers following the encouraging report from kept in place to allow the continued control and the Australian National Audit Office which will enforcement of compliance with Medicare benefit soon be tabled. The ‘Impact of Sunset Clause on guidelines. This bill aims to retain the delegation Investigatory Powers Follow-Up Audit’ will of powers which have proven, on a trial-like basis, confirm that the safety mechanisms employed by to be efficient, substantive and pertinent to the role the HIC have ensured that powers have been used of the Health Insurance Commission. correctly. In the absence of any evidence that the powers By repealing Section 2 of the Health Legislation delegated by the Health Legislation (Powers of (Powers of Investigation) Amendment Act 1994 Investigation) Amendment Act 1994 have been or and Item 68 of Schedule 1 of the Human Services are prone to being abused and distorted, the sunset and Health Legislation Amendment Act (No. 3) clause incorporated into that Act should be re- 1995, this legislation will enable the HIC to pealed. In order to preserve a follow on provision continue to conduct investigations and prepare in the interests of fairness and individuals’ rights, prosecutions against providers and requesting the sunset clause incorporated into the Human practitioners who abuse the system. Services and Health Legislation Amendment Act (No.3) 1995 relating to Item 66 should also be Section 2 of the Health Legislation (Powers of repealed. Investigation) Amendment Act 1994 specifically provides that the entire Act should cease to have Without these amendments the sunset clause would force on and from 1 July 1996. The sunset clause take effect on 1 July 1996, thus seriously undermin- resulted from concerns expressed before the Senate ing the ability of the HIC to prevent, and prosecute Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional against, Medicare fraud. Affairs that the broad ranging powers provided for I commend this bill to the Senate. in the Act offered scope for corruption and abuse of delegated authority by officers of the Health THERAPEUTIC GOODS AMENDMENT BILL Insurance Commission. It allowed for a reasonable 1996 period of time, roughly two years, for Parliament This bill is another example of the bipartisan to make a considered judgement about whether the approach of this Government to improving the powers had been abused in any way by the Health health of all Australians. Insurance Commission. This particular bill has had a tortuous history since No evidence of improper activity by the Health it was first introduced into Parliament by the Insurance Commission has arisen during this former Government in early 1995. The bill was period. Moreover, the conferred powers have initially part of an omnibus bill (the Human improved the Commission’s ability to effectively Services and Health Legislation Amendment Bill detect and deal with Medicare non-compliance and No.1 1995) which was subsequently divided into fraud. It is, therefore, important that those powers more manageable parts. now be preserved in order to give full effect to the This bill incorporates and re-introduces the provi- role and function of the Health Insurance Commis- sions of the Therapeutic Goods Amendment Bill sion as a regulatory body over Medicare practices 1995 which was passed by both sides of the House and fraud. of Representatives on 28 September 1995, but was Similarly, Item 68 of Schedule 1 of the Human still awaiting consideration by the Senate when the Services and Health Legislation Amendment Act Parliament rose at the conclusion of the 1995 (No. 3) 1995 provides that Item 66 and the amend- sittings. As a result, over 600 applications for ments made by Item 66 of Schedule 1 of that Act listing particular products for supply in Australia cease to be in force from 1 July 1996. have been delayed. These applications comprise Item 66 ensures procedural fairness in relation to relatively simple, low risk products such as vitamin, the seizure of evidential materials for the purposes mineral, herbal, homeopathic and sunscreen pro- of investigating Medicare fraud and over-servicing. ducts. It does so by imposing an obligation on authorised The Government welcomes manageable legislation officers or officers assisting the Commission to and particularly welcomes the innovations con- return material seized for the purposes of evidence tained in this bill. We note that last year the former in the course of conducting searches and investigat- Government, who first moved this bill, also actively Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 91 promoted the measures contained in this legislation. Reserve, consistent with statutory financial ac- This legislation is therefore brought forward by the countability requirements. new Government as a priority bill for introduction The appeal provisions in the Therapeutic Goods and passage in this session. Act 1989 relating to the review of decisions to The provisions of this bill will establish a new register therapeutic goods have also been tightened. accelerated process for placing listable drugs This will ensure that technical and scientific data supplied in Australia on the Australian Register of that should be lodged in connection with a general Therapeutic Goods (ARTG). This new process will marketing application, will be evaluated before a significantly reduce product approval times to a review on merits is undertaken by the Administra- matter of weeks, without in any way affecting the tive Appeals Tribunal. quality or safety of the medicinal products. The bill also corrects a defect in the legislation Under the new scheme, products must meet the regarding the ability of the Secretary to approve the same criteria as currently exists. These criteria inclusion on the ARTG of products for export only include a statement that the goods are safe for the where those products have been refused marketing purposes for which they are to be used, being the approval in Australia. In these circumstances the purposes identified in the application for marketing, Secretary is currently empowered to require confir- and not other purposes which go beyond the mation that the relevant authority of the country to accepted indications for the therapeutic uses of the which the goods are to be exported is willing to product. accept the goods. This power is however limited to The bill also provides a much better definition of goods that have been manufactured in Australia for some poorly understood aspects of the National export only, and does not extend to products Regulatory Scheme for Therapeutic Goods, which imported into Australia solely for re-export. The have been identified in its first five years of oper- bill proposes that this provision be amended to ation. ensure that the Secretary’s ability to require confirmation from Australia’s trading partners of A mechanism to address shortages or lack of their willingness to accept goods refused marketing essential drugs required by the public in emergency approval in Australia, extends to all products, situations has also been included, along with irrespective of whether they have been manufac- amendments that update and consolidate in a new tured in Australia or elsewhere. part of the Act, the entry, search and warrant powers to enforce the legislation. Overall, this bill will benefit Australia’s therapeutic industry and further enhance Australia’s role as a This bill introduces changes to align the monetary leader in drug evaluation, registration and regula- penalties in the current legislation with the "penalty tion in the region. units" classification used in other Commonwealth regulatory legislation, as well as closing a gap in I commend this bill to the Senate. the current scheme, in regard to the removal of Ordered that the bills be listed on the illegal therapeutic goods of unknown quality, safety Notice Paper as separate orders of the day. or efficacy from the market. Ordered that further consideration of the Also included in this bill are provisions to permit warrentless entry of premises to seize goods only second reading of the bills be adjourned until where there is an imminent public health risk of the first day of the spring sittings 1996, in death or serious injury, and where there are reason- accordance with the order agreed to on 29 able grounds for believing that illegal activity is November 1994. taking place. Senator HILL (South Australia—Leader of A definition for "food" has been inserted to clarify the Government in the Senate)—by leave—I the interface between food and drugs. Problems have arisen from the present definition of "thera- might be able to help the Leader of the peutic goods" which excludes "food" but fails to Opposition in relation to the hazardous waste define the term. What constitutes "food" in the bill bill. The only changes have resulted from the will be linked to the presentation and promotion of need to reduce the three different amending a product in the market. The words "prescribed bills that you had last time into one and any dose" and "frequency of administration" included consequential changes that would result from in the definition are to be read in a pharmaceutical sense, and are not intended to encompass serving that procedural requirement. There are no suggestions applied to or normally associated with changes in substance. The delay in introduc- food and beverages. ing it was a printing problem overnight. To Other amendments in the bill include a provision help the opposition, yesterday we provided an to replace the Therapeutic Administration Trust unofficial copy to Carmen Lawrence, the Account with the Therapeutic Administration shadow spokesperson. 92 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

GOVERNOR-GENERAL’S SPEECH much welcome the appointment of the Hon. Sir William Deane to the office of Governor- Address-in-Reply General. Senator TEAGUE (South Australia) (10.46 a.m.)—I move: On 16 February, my wife and I—I am That the following address-in-reply be agreed to: delighted that my wife is in the chamber to- To His Excellency the Governor-General day, as many spouses have come to the parli- MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY— ament—attended the splendid ceremony in We, the Senate of the Commonwealth of Austral- this chamber at which Sir William Deane, ia in Parliament assembled, desire to express our accompanied by his wife and family, was loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign and to sworn in as our new Governor-General. This thank Your Excellency for the speech which you followed our farewell dinner the evening be- have been pleased to address to Parliament. fore to the retiring Governor-General, Bill This is the Thirty-eighth Parliament of the Hayden, at which appropriate remarks were Commonwealth of Australia. At each first made by a number of representatives of the sitting following the opening of parliament by parliament. the Governor-General a motion of this kind is Sir William has our genuine support from moved. It is an established tradition and it is the start. As I observe it, that support is one that I am sure the parliament keeps. unanimous in this parliament and amongst the Certainly, I move it in that tradition. people of Australia. We know him already as In the motion, we all as senators express a true Australian, an honourable man, a our allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen of person who understands the constitution, Australia as head of state. In the same way which it is his duty to uphold, and a man of yesterday, our three newest senators—Senator learning, compassion and humility—and I like Mackay, Senator Lundy and Senator Conroy the twinkle in his eye. —swore, by oath or affirmation, their alle- giance to the Queen as the head of state of Very appropriately, before giving his speech Australia according to law. opening the Thirty-eighth Parliament we welcomed his statement in expression of I say these words with considerable warmth sympathy for the people of Tasmania—hurt, and sincerity, notwithstanding that I strongly as we all are, by the tragedy at Port Arthur on support the Australian people considering Sunday. Also, it was on his initiative that we constitutional reform to adopt an Australian met on Monday in one of the cathedrals in head of state. I also note the gracious expres- this city, representing the whole nation of sions of the Queen to the Prime Minister and Australia as it were, to pray for the people of others that she leaves the determination of Tasmania. In that service the Governor- that constitutional question to all Australians General himself read from the Scripture these and that she will accept the outcome of that powerful words from 1 John 4:7,8: process. Dear friends, let us love one another, because love In all of her reign, Her Majesty Queen is from God. Everyone who loves is a child of God Elizabeth II has served this country well in and knows God. But the unloving knows nothing never failing to accept the advice of the of God. government elected by the people of Austral- We all prayed in these words: ia. Any allegiance that we give as senators or In our sorrow give us the calm of your peace, as members of the House of Representatives kindle our hope, and let our grief give way to joy. will, if the people of Australia change the We have, in the Senate yesterday and in constitution, in due course be an allegiance to solidarity with all of Australia again this whoever may be determined by the constitu- morning, marked by silence our concern and tion to be head of state. sympathy for and solidarity with the people It was very gratifying to see the Governor- of Tasmania. It will also fall to us as legisla- General, in one of his most important first tors to give the most careful and intelligent undertakings, here in the Senate chamber yes- consideration of gun law reform when that terday representing the Queen in the opening time comes. I welcome the remarks of the of the Thirty-eighth Parliament. We very Attorney-General, Daryl Williams, and those Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 93 of the Prime Minister, John Howard, with an occasion such as this, where there has been regard to the need for our consideration of a change of government after 13 years of a gun law reform. Labor government and we have the inaugurat- It was not only with regard to the tragedy ion of a Liberal and National government, we felt by the people of Tasmania but with can expect a flourish of announcements, we regard to all Australians that we began the can expect a statement of idealism. It is day yesterday, the opening day of parliament, therefore not surprising that we have reference at the service of worship which is sponsored to ‘excellence’, ‘cohesion’, ‘great responsibil- by the Parliamentary Christian Fellowship. I ities’, ‘national challenges’, ‘unequivocal have the honour of having attended 19 of commitment’, and references to particular these services of worship. It was another areas of policy, such as a realistic defence inspiring occasion yesterday before we came policy, a constructive foreign policy, an active here to assemble in the parliament. trade policy, and so on. One of the great hymns which for many I say again that these are good aspirations, years has been sung at all of our services was these are the appropriately flourishing words written by two great Australians who happen expected by the people of Australia of this to be friends of mine, Michael and Honor parliament and of the government. Cynics, Thwaites. The last verse of their hymn, with some observers—I have not heard any in this which we concluded the service yesterday, parliament—might regard some of those was a prayer for all Australia, not just for one phrases, the introduction and conclusion, as state: somewhat purple or even cliched. But I assure Lord, life-giving healing Spirit, the Senate that the response of most of us—I on our hurts, your mercy shower; think, with graciousness, of all of us—is that lead us by your inward dwelling, this is not the case because with a new guiding, guarding, every hour. government outlining the program for which Bless and keep our land Australia: it has a mandate we are not hearing hollow in your will her peace and power. rhetoric; we are hearing the specific program I now come to the Governor-General’s speech promises of the new government. itself, which I welcome in its entirety. On this Those specific programs relate to: youth grand occasion I noticed the attention given employment; the promotion of small business; by all 76 senators in this chamber, of all 149 the reform of the labour market; raising members of the House of Representatives, of national savings; boosting the competitiveness the members of the High Court, of our and productivity of the Australian economy; spouses, of the former Prime Ministers, of the positive environmental measures; micro- secretaries to departments, of the press. economic reform; tax relief to assist families Indeed, it was a grand occasion for the parlia- and self-funded retirees; new vocational and ment, as has been the opening on all 38 such educational training initiatives; solutions to occasions. the problems of young Australians; positive The speech was succinct, positive and policies for women, for indigenous Austral- clearly displayed the values and objectives of ians, for a multicultural Australia, for the arts, the new government, the coalition government for constitutional reform, and for improving led by John Howard. I noticed that here in the the standing of the parliament. centre of the chamber the leaders of the government, Prime Minister John Howard and The speech, as we all heard, was divided Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer, were, if into eight parts. The first relates to the possible, the most attentive of all as it was on government’s objectives, the second to jobs, their advice that the Governor-General was or the economy more broadly—industrial outlining the government’s program for the relations reform, small business, micro-eco- three-year period of this Thirty-eighth Parlia- nomic reform—and the third part to families, ment. community services and the elderly. There were no surprises. This is a govern- The fourth part relates to young Australians, ment intent on keeping its promises. But, on to jobs and training, and the fifth to regional 94 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Australia which, as I do not need to remind nearly half—and four of the 12 House of the Senate, was one of the important battle- Representatives members are women. Of all grounds at the last election. Regional Austral- these women in the parliament from South ia was comprised of electorates that had to be Australia, two-thirds of them are members of won by whoever was to become the govern- the Liberal Party and my good colleagues. I ment. The sixth part related to foreign affairs, congratulate them all. Indeed, I congratulate defence and trade. The seventh part was titled all those who have won election from every ‘A Cohesive Society’ and stressed unifying party and every state. Australia rather than dividing one part from Let me give my brief view—as I am sure another. It emphasised ‘the government’s this will be a theme which will be taken up commitment to govern in the national interest in this address-in-reply debate—as to why we and not for vested interests’. The conclusion had this outcome. First of all, Labor lost the summarised these initiatives with appropriate election. After 13 years it was time, and I see flourish and commitment. the gracious smiles of Labor members oppos- Before moving to some particulars I draw ite. They are used to some victories but they attention to the first sentence of the Governor- distinctly lost this one. The people of Austral- General’s speech, which contained these gra- ia not only wanted to endorse a Liberal- cious words: National Party government with all the fresh- On 2 March the Australian people entrusted to a ness and vigour of its policies and programs new government the responsibility of managing the but also wanted to reject the failures of Labor nation’s affairs. after 13 years. That is opening-of-parliament-speak for, as There are three lessons I would mention. I politicians would say using their vocabulary, do not say this patronisingly to my colleagues ‘What a beauty! We won! The election was opposite, but indeed to put it on the record for a success for the Liberal and National par- all of us. One, do not mess up the economy; ties.’ After five losses in which my colleagues it loses votes. Two, do not break promises; it and I have participated through the 1980s and loses votes. Three, do not lie and do not 1990s, it is fantastic to have a win. condone lying; it loses votes. I say that very One of the themes of our meeting yesterday seriously. I also of course see that the greater as we greeted each other was this note of factor in the outcome of the election was the celebration and joy in winning endorsement positive program of the Liberal and National for the Liberal and National parties’ programs parties. Those positive programs and policies put forward at the election. I take this oppor- have been summarised in the Governor- tunity to say that I trust democracy. I believe General’s speech itself, and as we see the that people get it right if they are informed. legislative program unfold over these coming Certainly, my colleagues and I cannot argue months we will see that in action. with the democratic outcome on this occasion. There were no disasters in the Liberal In South Australia, for example, 10 of the campaign: there was no GST, there were no 12 House of Representatives seats were won hit lists, and there were no alarms set running by my party. In the Senate the Liberals will about the reforms we envisaged. There was have six senators, the Labor Party four, the moderation, there was a sensible explanation Democrats two. This is just one example of of our polices, there was a direct appeal to the dimension of the sweeping change in a represent all Australians. I congratulate John vast national swing that has endorsed the Howard, who superbly led my party’s cam- Liberal-National Party government. paign, and I commend every member and May I also note with regard to women’s senator for their efforts in the campaign. representation in the parliament that South In the time remaining I would like briefly Australia continues to lead the way towards to address five particular matters: first, the equality of representation by both men and wellbeing of Australian families; secondly, the women. As a result of the election, five of the essential investment that must be made in 12 South Australian senators are women— education; thirdly, the removal of all govern- Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 95 ment taxes and imposed costs on Australian by churches and by education processes and exports; fourthly, the priority of Australia’s by community associations. We need to foreign policy and trade in the countries in enhance and lead the forces that make for Asia, a priority that I have supported for positive good and reinforcement in the family many years; and, fifthly, the importance now from all those quarters. of allowing the people of Australia to partici- Let me briefly also refer to the family’s pate in and to own positive constitutional current prized possession—the family home. reform. Too often, it is a magnificent building with With regard to the wellbeing of Australian everything that opens and shuts but for many families, I quote a statement made by Morris this prize is hardly ever used. Often the cry is, West, a noted Australian author, with regard ‘There’s nobody home.’ We have sometimes to the family in the Australian Magazine just seen families invest huge resources in the this last weekend. It touches upon a matter family home to find that it is empty or used which I am sure is part of the incentive for for only six or seven hours sleep a night. the government to bring in tax relief and Families, in some senses, have never had so other measures to help strengthen families in much money. They have never been richer. Australia. Morris West wrote these words: That is not true of all families, but I think it The breakdown of the family structure is very is true of the average Australian family. real, of that structure within which the child can be Despite this richness, many families have a nurtured and cared for and given a set of social reduced quality of life. For example, there is standards which they may later reject but which help them to survive in a moral sense. We seem to too much use of child-care centres. Child-care be producing on the one hand feral tribes and on centres are good and they must be provided, the other, because of travel, closed-end societies. but I think we are using them too much...... Families are eating too much fast food. They are spending too little relaxed time together. Mechanistically, the whole protective structure I am much more optimistic than Morris West. of society is breaking down. The notion of ‘parish’ or village or small town which was to a degree I believe that the best models of Australian self-supporting and self-educating in the moral families are already addressing these deterio- sense is impossible to administer now. Mega-cities rations and are actually finding solutions. I are throwing people into total isolation, . . . The wish that to be extended. Internet, the global village . . . (are) driving people back on themselves: they are communicating with The second issue I refer to relates to the an inanimate object, with no tactile response or essential investment that must be made in contact. The same with television, mere shadows education. I stress that there is ultimately no on a screen . . . Alienation and isolation is becom- way to dilute the truth that the greater part of ing total. And if you look around at the debasement education provision must come from the of children, of individuals, at repression, war, drugs, torture, then evil certainly is winning . . . the public purse—from the allocation of tax- old notion of conflict between good and evil payers’ money through government budgets. contains an essential truth. There is no ultimate escape from the budget foundation that education requires real dollars I quote that not because I agree with all of it; from real governments. Although we may I am actually much more optimistic. I believe have efficiency reforms, avoidance of duplica- that families can be constructive in finding tion, a contribution by students and parents remedies for those evils and for those tenden- through HECS, incentives for university cies which lead to alienation and amorality research to win support from the private which Morris West has referred to. sector and so on, ultimately the coalition In so far as the legislature can address these government and all governments must keep matters, we must do so as a top priority. But their promises for universities, schools and let me say that not everything is solved by the vocational education and training so that there government or by legislation. A great deal is will be no reductions in the real allocation of solved by the initiative and resources of fami- money from Commonwealth funding. The lies themselves in their personal interaction, government’s budgetary commitment to educ- 96 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 ation is a fundamental investment in Aus- reform. I seek leave to incorporate in my tralia’s productive future. The challenge is to speech the one-page summary of the make sure that that investment is secure. coalition’s position on the republican issue. I thirdly refer to the priority of removing all The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Is leave government taxes and imposed costs on granted? Australian exports. That aspiration has been Senator Faulkner—Leave is not granted. expressed by the coalition for several election I don’t want to be churlish about this, but campaigns. Now that the coalition can make could we have a look at it? those changes it is in a win-win situation. Senator TEAGUE—Yes. I will circulate it. Those changes will generate exports and ensure the best path to prosperity for the Senator Faulkner—Senator Teague, more Australian economy and the Australian peo- than anyone else, understands the courtesy of ple. At the same time they will generate the this chamber. political capital in regional Australia and in Senator TEAGUE—Thank you very much large and small business to ensure support in for your courtesy. I hope that I may receive the next and subsequent elections. leave to incorporate the document when I Fourthly, I refer to the priority of Aust- finish my speech. I wish to refer to a couple ralia’s foreign policy and trade policy in of undertakings that the coalition has made on relation to the countries of Asia. The Gover- the republican issue. Point 4 of the document nor-General’s speech states: states: In government, the Coalition will in 1997 establish . . . there will be no higher priority for the Govern- a People’s Convention to debate the whole issue. ment than advancing relations with countries in There will be other matters discussed at the Asia, with particular emphasis on Indonesia and People’s Convention. However, the issue of other members of ASEAN, Japan, Korea, China Australia’s Head of State will be debated first and and India. separate from other issues. I support this priority wholeheartedly, as I endorse that statement and look forward to would be well-known in the Senate from my its implementation in the coming months to speeches on foreign affairs, trade and defence ensure that the coalition’s undertaking is matters over many years. achieved in 1997. Point 5 states: I also commend the next paragraph of the If a consensus emerges from the People’s Conven- speech which states that the government will tion regarding the Head of State, that consensus carry out its program in these areas through will be promoted by the Government at a constitu- bilateral, regional and global negotiations. tional referendum. There will be direct bilateral negotiations, one That is the commitment given by the Prime country to another—I have advocated that for Minister (Mr Howard) in June last year which many years—which will benefit Australia. All led to this issue being non-contentious at the three dimensions of negotiations will be used. last election. As John Howard and the coali- The speech further states that the government: tion said, Australian people will have a vote about the republic no matter who wins the . . . attaches particular importance to APEC as a next election. I am optimistic that this process forum for trade and investment liberalisation in the region that will also act as a catalyst for further will allow the people to be all the more global trade liberalisation. consulted and that it will all the more deter- mine the outcome of constitutional reform. I I again endorse that. I believe that APEC am even optimistic that, as a result of these genuinely has the bipartisan support of the undertakings by the coalition, there will be a parliament. The advantage is that the new greater prospect of the broader political government will approach achieving APEC’s support necessary to see the eventual referen- potential with fresh vigour and action. dum succeed. The final matter I refer to is the importance After 18 years in the Senate, I will be of allowing the people of Australia to partici- leaving at the end of this initial two-month pate in and to own positive constitutional sitting period. Nine senators will be leaving Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 97 at that time, in addition to the three who were 5. If a consensus emerges from the People’s replaced by the new senators who were sworn Convention regarding the Head of State, that in yesterday, all of whom we wish well. consensus will be promoted by the Govern- Indeed, we wish our successors—those elect- ment at a constitutional referendum. ed at the last election—well. 6. If no consensus emerges, then the Australian people will be asked to vote on a series of This is my last speech on the address-in- options for changes to establish which of them reply. I take this chance to say that I have they desire. great faith in the parliament and in the Sen- These options for change will include that of ate; I will say more about that later. I thank electing the President by direct popular vote, as my colleagues for the honour of allowing me well as by a Parliamentary vote as proposed by to move this motion for the address-in-reply. the Prime Minister. Another method of election could also emerge as an option from the whole I conclude by referring to the poem The process of discussion. Naturally the option of First Surveyor by one of my favourite poets, retaining the present system would be included Banjo Patterson. In context, there is a marvel- in any vote. lous line where the settler says, ‘We know 7. If it becomes necessary to put a series of who ought to get the cheers and that’s enough options to the people, then a two-stage process for us.’ That is something of the spirit of this would be required. The first stage would be in retiring senator in moving this motion for the effect a consultative referendum to determine which option for change the people wanted. address-in-reply. Then a formal constitutional proposal would The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Is leave need to be put, giving legal effect to the granted for Senator Teague to incorporate the option chosen by the people in the consultative document he referred to earlier? process. Australians who support the current system could vote against the proposal. Leave granted. The Coalition proposes to consult the people at all The document read as follows— stages and will offer Australians a full range of The Coalition’s Position on the Republican choices. Issue The Coalition will give the people the Constitution The following points summarise the Coalition’s they want, while Mr Keating wants to give them approach. the republic he wants. 1. The current Constitutional arrangements have Australian people will have a vote about the served Australia well, delivering great stabili- republic no matter who wins the next election. ty, cohesion and tolerance. Senator SANDY MACDONALD (New 2. Keating’s comments about an Australian Head South Wales) (11.16 a.m.)—I second the of State are an attempt to imply that anyone who opposes a republic is a lesser Australian. motion. I am very pleased to be given the The reality is that over the past thirty years, opportunity to second this motion on behalf the Governor-General has become Australia’s of the first Howard government. I am also constitutional Head of State. That position has more than pleased to be part of a coalition been occupied by an Australian since 1965. It government which has a handsome mandate is unthinkable that anyone but an Australian to nurture Australia and all who live here. I would occupy the position in the future. thank the Australian people everywhere, on 3. Despite the success of the present constitution, the farms and in the factories, in the shopping many Australians are attracted to the idea of a republic and the Coalition believes that the centres and right across the six states and two matter should be fully debated and ultimately territories of this vast country, for their trust a vote taken on the issue before the turn of the and acknowledgment of our commitment to century. govern ‘for all of us’. 4. In government, the Coalition will in 1997 I would like to congratulate the new How- establish a People’s Convention to debate the ard ministry, particularly our Senate col- whole issue. There will be other matters discussed at the People’s Convention. How- leagues and Senator Hill, and my leader, ever, the issue of Australia’s Head of State Senator Boswell. The members of the will be debated first and separate from other ministry have a depth of talent and previous issues. experience of real life Australia that automati- 98 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 cally makes for a new style in administration. He is an extraordinary Australian and his I wish Senator Faulkner well as the opposition path through public life has enriched us all. Senate leader. He follows in that role some of I wish Bill and Dallas Hayden many happy the great contributors to Labor’s cause in years on the farm. I understand that he recent- recent years, including the late Senator Mur- ly had a fall from a horse and broke a rib. phy and former Senator Button and Senator Riding is a bit like politics: we all fall off Gareth Evans. from time to time but generally most of the damage is done to our pride which, in the The excitement of the opening of this scheme of things, is of no importance. parliament is tempered by the tragedy in Tasmania. Violence devalues everyone be- Yesterday in the chamber we witnessed the cause we are all transparently equal before traditional ceremony during which our new indiscriminate violence. Much has been Governor-General, Sir William Deane, opened already said about the massacre but a major the 38th parliament and outlined the govern- concern of mine, and one often mentioned by ment’s programs and priorities for the next the former Prime Minister Mr Keating, is the three years. In that ceremony there was a unacceptable level of violence still shown on coming together of the three components of our television sets. For what it is worth, my what is known as the Westminster system: the personal view is that no extreme violence sovereign, the Senate and the House of should be shown on free to air television at Representatives. The Westminster system is any time. a flexible system and is constantly under review but it has served the English mother My first involvement with a parliamentary of parliaments well and it has served our opening was on 4 May 1993 when the previ- federal and state parliaments, and in fact other ous Governor-General, the Hon. Bill Hayden, parliaments throughout the Commonwealth, opened the 37th parliament. As I had not yet equally well. It is a core element of our taken my Senate seat, I listened to the speech democracy and as Churchill said, ‘democracy, from the President’s gallery and I could not whilst not a perfect system, is the best.’ We help but notice the expressions on the faces remain one of the few and longest lived of the government members. There appeared democracies in the world and our commitment a mixture of certainty borne of 10 years of to the Westminster system has largely facili- government and absolute disbelief that they tated that. had been able to pull one last election out of One component of our system is the sover- a confused electorate. It seemed to me that eign, who in Australia is represented by her the government had little expectation of being personal representative, the Governor-General. re-elected and the members were as surprised The role and the whole approach the coalition as everybody else that they were again in takes to constitutional change will be part of power. our program over the next few years. The I would like to congratulate the Haydens for coalition is determined that proper community their period in Yarralumla. It could not have involvement will be provided in the review of been a more difficult time for a former repub- Australia’s constitution. We want to build on lican and Labor minister to be Governor- the effective system we have, not distract or General. But just as the weight of government falsely claim to simplify a system of govern- tends to change people’s perspectives, so too ment which both federally and in the six did his period as our head of state. He carried states has made us the envy of most political out his duties with decency, dignity and, entities in the world. above all, humour. He travelled overseas as I do not often find occasion to quote the our head of state and made constructive former Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr additions to some of the great debates of our David Lange, but he is quoted as having said time like euthanasia, our treatment of the aged that constitutional reform tends only to occur and, in fact, the role of the Governor-General when an existing system withers on the vine. itself. I do not know whether, in the broad, our Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 99 system has reached that stage, though there steady dedication of a lifetime. We all should are reforms that are necessary in the federal- reflect on that from time to time. state and federal-state-local government We all agree that healthy democracies relationships. require changes in government. People want It is worth being reminded of the view held to be part of the debate. Electors are not to be by the former Governor-General Bill Hay- taken lightly. On 2 March the electorate den—that is, a republic per se might lead to expressed its choice, giving the coalition 94 considerable political instability. We can do seats in the House of Representatives, with without that instability because, after all, the five more seats going to Independents. present system has worked remarkably well. To hasten slowly is essential because ulti- In my state of New South Wales, Labor mately if there is to be change it will be the holds only one regional seat—the electorate people’s choice. I am pleased that we will of Hunter—and the former Labor regional legislate to ensure the flag cannot be changed seat of Calare went to an Independent. The by any government without considerable National Party is determined to give the effort. I am sure that all those who fought electors of Calare a voice in the coalition under our present flag will be very pleased government. I personally give my commit- about that. ment to that region. The great difference between a coalition To be an Independent in Canberra is to be government and a Labor government is the almost entirely ineffective. ‘Fine words butter pre-eminence Labor gives to special interest no parsnips’, as grandmother used to say. All groups, and especially their desire to represent the well-meaning words of well-meaning and foster organised labour in a way that Independents are pretty irrelevant in the many of us consider unrepresentative. Unions, scheme of things. We all know that. To be an like any other representative organisation, Independent in a world of difficult national have a positive role to play. I am a member decisions is akin to having a leg either side of of a union—the National Farmers Federation. a barbed wire fence. It is not a place to be But unions, like political parties, should exist recommended. only on the basis that they earn their keep. There has been much written about the new They have responsibilities, not just rights. The government’s mandate. Some sections of the fact is that almost all Australians believe that. media and the Australian Democrats seem to To tread the fine line between being fair to have forgotten the basis of our democratic all and giving special favours to some is a system: that is, the party which wins the most problem that all political parties face. But it seats in the House of Representatives is the is appropriate at this time to give credit where party with the mandate to govern. The it is due. The previous government, for better coalition’s policy platform was clearly laid or for worse, had a commitment to Australia out and became part of the policy debate and I congratulate it on that. The ministers during the election. Australia voted over- worked under enormous pressure—as all whelmingly for that platform. ministers do—to guide the ship of state. The The more cynical or humorous might argue often quoted statement of the Prime Minister that if the coalition had merely smiled and (Mr Howard), that the things that bring us said, ‘Trust us,’ the devastation of Labor together are much greater than the things that might have been more complete. But we did divide us, is very true. Australians are fortu- not do that. We took the hard decisions. We nate indeed in that regard. released our policies—including our 1990s- During the last government’s term, when appropriate industrial relations reforms; the Prime Minister Keating embroiled himself in partial sale of Telstra; and our commitment to changing Australia’s identity or the flag, I the family, to savings, to small business, to often used to think of Adlai Stevenson’s the young and older Australians, and to quote that patriotism is not a short and fren- accountability in government generally—and zied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and they were clearly endorsed. 100 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

It is fair to say that new governments has some of the finest farming land in the frequently claim a mandate but they do so at world. Although there is substantial irrigation their peril if the mandate is false. This is the water available, the water table is dropping, most honest claim to a mandate that I have it is frequently stressed, and the problems of ever seen in this country. I ask the Democrats salinity are now appearing. to think carefully before they talk about their mandate. Some parts of this area that are not used for grain are used for beef production, which is After all, the coalition achieved a 46-seat a very satisfactory use of fertile farming land. majority in the House of Representatives. If However, the current low beef prices are we look at the Senate in isolation and at the making the process of using that land for that 40 seats which were determined on 2 March, purpose a near waste of time. Why are beef 20 seats were won by the Liberal-National prices so low? Australia, which produces parties, 14 by the Australian Labor Party, five wonderful beef, cannot compete with our New by the Democrats, and one by the Tasmanian Zealand and United States competitors to Greens. After 1 July, the Liberal-National supply traditional markets, because of the ine- parties in the Senate will hold 37 seats out of fficiencies in our abattoirs. It is the industrial 76. The Democrats achieved a stand alone relations system that presently exists in our quota only in South Australia. What that abattoirs that therefore has an potential impact mandate amounts to is for my wise friend on land use in grazing areas of Australia. Senator Kernot and her team to decide. There is an amazing interrelationship in the One of the greatest challenges we face, one economy these days. which transcends mainstream political differ- ences and state and international priorities, is The impact of water cleanliness is some- the environment. In a global or macro sense, thing that concerns everybody: from Cen- the greenhouse effect, acid rain and more are tennial Park in Sydney, which takes the run- important for our global village. Here at home off of five council areas and where signs give we have enormous problems with managing health warnings against letting your dog our environment—with managing our major swim, to the horrendous public relations battle river systems, water generally and land use. to put the problem of the Murray-Darling Farmers in the main are the great environ- Basin in perspective. Australians will never mental protectors. Over the years there have accept that this major river system should be been examples of misuse of land. Frequently, allowed to disintegrate. The devastation of these have been unforeseen and have been some tracts of land west of the Darling should compounded by drought or through change of not be allowed to increase. Problems of the land use. environment have to be discussed, whether they concern the cotton producers, the feed- The importance of the landcare movement lots, the piggeries or whatever. We must and water conservation is acknowledged by address these complex issues. the new government, but more needs to be understood. We are absolutely committed to The linchpin of the coalition’s approach to sustainable agriculture. We will be responsible government was summed up by Mario and innovative to an environment which Cuomo, a former governor of New York, meets the expectations of land users—in other when he said, ‘It is not the government’s words, all of us. The way we harness the obligation to provide services but to see that environment impacts on our industries, on our they are provided.’ That simply puts in lifestyles and on the types and situations of perspective the fact that services will be new and existing regional centres. It extends provided to all Australians, whether they live to all our export earning industries, including on the coastal strip or in the vast outback. tourism, which demands our physical environ- There is no way, from a National Party point ment to be protected as far as possible. of view, that we will not be pushing to restore I live on the edge of the incredibly fertile the appropriate balance for people who live Liverpool plains in New South Wales, which outside the metropolitan areas. The previous Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 101 government, largely reflecting its narrow At the outset of my contribution I want to electoral base, was particularly isolated from move an amendment to the address-in-reply the inland and from an appropriate under- motion. I move: standing of regional Australia. At end of motion add ", and the Senate is of the opinion that no part of Telstra should be sold". I am not happy that the sort of commitment that is necessary to restore the balance to The opposition is committed to a 100 per cent regional Australia is fully understood. I am government-owned national carrier. I believe not happy that those in the bush have been that selling part or all of our communications forced to the limit by drought and government carrier, worth some $24 billion, would be an indifference. I am not happy about regional act of gross irresponsibility in itself. For the Australia’s health care, roads, fuel prices or government to claim that it will be a more access to welfare assistance—be it Austudy or competitive company after privatisation is just access to a living wage whenever non-per- arrant nonsense. It has been corporatised and forming assets exclude drought ravaged farm it is already competing very successfully in families from help. I am not happy about the the international market. process of committing Australia to the re- We made our position crystal clear in the quirements of international treaties and United election campaign when the former Prime Nations conventions. These must be more Minister, Mr Keating, said on January 23, subject to scrutiny by the Commonwealth ‘Telstra is simply not for sale.’ The opposi- parliament, the states and the community tion also regards as thoroughly objectionable before they are entered into on Australia’s the government’s approach of making envi- behalf. ronment policy some kind of bait or trade-off The Governor-General outlined very import- for the Senate to agree to the sale of Telstra. ant measures which the government will That also is an absolute nonsense. implement to improve the lives of Australians Telstra is a very strong, very vibrant com- everywhere—improvements not just in the pany which achieved record profits of $3 present but lasting into the future. I believe billion in 1994-95. It is aggressively seeking that good government is not just about facili- and claiming new markets in Asia. Its value tating efficiency and productivity in the public has increased from $18 billion when John and private sectors. Good government is not Hewson wanted to sell it to around $24 just about making sure we have sufficient billion now. We believe that inevitably a capital and consumer goods and services. partial sale of Telstra would lead to its com- Political and social realities and conflicts must plete privatisation. The Prime Minister (Mr not be entirely subsumed by economic ones. Howard) has never hidden his intentions. In Good government is about equity and balance. the election campaign, Mr Howard promised The National Party will endeavour to bring that a third of the company would be sold in those qualities to government decision making the term of this government. He never denied, processes. Good government reflects the of course, that all the $24 billion resource collective social, cultural and economic would be flogged off in the longer term, concerns of society. Good government is including to non-Australian companies. about improving the prospects of people. A coalition government will do just that. I particularly want to concentrate this morning on this very shabby link that has Senator FAULKNER (New South Wales— been established between environment fund- Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) ing and the sale of Telstra—the holding (11.34 a.m.)—Let me thank Senator Teague hostage of environment funding in this coun- and Senator Sandy Macdonald for their contri- try to the partial sale of Telstra. I must admit butions. I must say that, although I did not it was good to see that Tim Fischer fessed up agree with all the sentiments they expressed to what it was all about, that the link was in their speeches this morning, I do genuinely merely a ploy ‘to captivate a Senate vote’, to appreciate the spirit in which they were made. use his words. I think only Tim could say 102 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 that, but we all understand what he means. He wetlands program; the regional environmental said that on 2CS on 2 February 1996. The employment program and so on. link was a ploy ‘to captivate a Senate vote’. Each and every one of those achievements, and the many other achievements that the I think we need to get very clear that it was Labor government made in environment not because the hearts of those in the coali- policy, were made with no strings attached. tion were in the environment policies that Any government that is worth its salt should were presented by them at the election: their really show the same level of passion and land and water degradation programs, which commitment to protecting the environment we have heard something about already today, without blackmailing the electorate. I do the rehabilitation of the Murray-Darling believe the coalition for a very long time has Basin, national river care, coasts, clean seas shown a very clear uninterest in environment- and the national reserves cooperative program. al issues. It was not because their hearts were in it. Understandably, of course, these very environ- Senator Hill—You don’t like it then? ment policies were ours, were Labor’s, and Senator FAULKNER—In answer to your they were stolen for electoral reasons. question, Senator Hill, I do believe that the coalition’s national heritage trust is a worthy The coalition concocted the shabby link objective, but I do also believe that it has to because it wanted to flog Telstra off by be achieved. It has to be funded without captivating the minor parties. The dry agenda resorting to Thatcherite funding mechanisms. far outweighs the wet. I think the coalition failed in this shabby trick, failed in the elec- Labor does not accept that the government tion campaign, to convince a majority of has an unfettered mandate to sell Telstra. Australians that this was a reasonable propo- During the election campaign, the Labor Party sal. I think, without doubt, it was the single made its position absolutely clear on this biggest negative that the coalition had in that issue. I well remember the day in the election election campaign. campaign when the announcement was made in relation to the part privatisation of Telstra Labor, of course, made very clear its level and establishing the link to the coalition’s of commitment to the environment. We have environment policy. I well remember that always believed the environment in this some 60 minutes after that policy became country should be supported with adequate public it was tagged as, ‘This is the Telstra public funding with no strings attached. We environment policy’. I well remember that actually happen to believe that the environ- many of us in the Labor cabinet at the time ment, and its protection, is a vital issue in its very quickly considered what our approach own right. would be. In our own time in government, without In the 1993 election campaign—in fact, strings, we were able to ensure the protection well before the campaign commenced—when of Uluru, Kakadu, the Franklin River and, an issue of similar significance came forward, more recently, Jervis Bay, Shoalwater Bay which was the establishment of a goods and and the Hinchinbrook Channel. In our term services tax in Australia, Labor made a we expanded the Great Barrier Reef Marine decision that it would not oppose that meas- Park from 14 per cent of the region to 98 per ure in the Senate. We made our position clear, cent of the region. We introduced the national and we made that position clear because of biodiversity program, the best forest policy the amount of time there had been for public this country has ever seen; the endangered debate on Dr Hewson’s program, which had species program; the national reserves co- been exposed to the electorate some 18 operative program; the save the bush program; months before the election. the one billion trees program; the Antarctic In the recent election campaign Labor said mining ban; the national corridor of green; the it would not vote for the partial sale of river health program; Waterwatch; national Telstra. We said it from the time the coalition Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 103 announced its policy. We did not waver, we ate, I was there to assist him. The government have not wavered, and we will not waver. We received the assistance of the opposition just gave a commitment to those people who this morning. voted for Labor in the House of Representa- I have to say that, while we will take our tives and the Senate that we would do every- responsibility seriously when legislation thing in our power to maintain Telstra in comes before us, we will be judicious in our public ownership. approach. We will be judicious in our review. We have heard from a number already in We will not be obstructionist. We will not be the chamber that the Liberal Party has a resorting to the same sorts of tactics at which majority to put its programs into effect. the coalition became expert over 13 years in Undeniably, the Liberal Party does have a opposition. We are not going to involve very handsome majority in the House of ourselves in deliberate disruption. We are not Representatives. It is a truism, of course, that going to involve ourselves in time wasting. it does not have a majority in this chamber. We are not going to involve ourselves in There is no doubt that some Australians who filibustering. We are going to behave in a voted for the coalition in the House of Repre- sensible and constructive way. sentatives did not vote for coalition candidates In relation to the Telstra scam during the in the Senate. election campaign—and that is what it was: Throughout the election campaign, from the a scam—we believe we have an absolute time the environment policy of the coalition obligation, an absolute commitment, to the and the proposal to partially sell Telstra was people who voted for us, and we intend to announced, the position of Labor, the Austral- keep the faith with them. We indicated what ian Democrats and Green candidates on the we would do loud and clear during the elec- Telstra issue became clear. I have never been tion campaign. We do want to take this early in any doubt that some voters may well have opportunity to give the Senate a chance to cast their vote in favour of coalition candi- indicate its view in relation to the part sale of dates in the House of Representatives know- Telstra. ing full well that the chances of the Senate We also have concerns about the manner in passing legislation to enable the privatisation which the part privatisation policy was pre- of Telstra were extremely remote. sented. That is of concern to us. I point out I believe that we do always need to take that the coalition pulled out its rolled gold account of the impact our parliamentary environment vision at the last moment in the system and processes have on the concept of middle of an election campaign and linked it mandate. No-one in Australia expects any to the sale of Telstra without giving the opposition to just roll over and allow legisla- electorate time to digest the sleight of hand tion to flood through the Senate or upper that was involved. house without appropriate scrutiny. No-one I happen to believe that the two campaign believes that. A free flow of legislation, a promises—environment and telecommunica- rubber stamp by the Senate, does appear to be tions—are chalk and cheese, except one was Senator Hill’s dream scenario, but it has never the political bait in a clumsy trap, as Mr happened before—never in Australian politi- Fischer said, to captivate minority parties in cal history. the Senate. Why did the sale of Telstra need I also want to make this point: in Labor’s bait? I suppose because without the environ- approach to opposition in this chamber we are ment policy no-one at all would swallow the going to be both sensible and constructive. privatisation of this vital public utility that We are not going to take the same approach delivers cross-subsidised services across the that the new government parties did in this nation. chamber when they were in opposition. Just The Liberals, I think, know that there is this morning when poor old Senator Kemp strong community opposition to the sale of was floundering with his first efforts as Telstra and that Australians will not swallow Manager of Government Business in the Sen- the sale of Telstra. Labor is not going to 104 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 swallow the sale of Telstra. We will respect PROPOSED SESSIONAL ORDERS majority opinion always and, I believe, in this respect we reflect a clear majority view and, Motion (by Senator Kemp) proposed: certainly, a Labor constituency view in the That the following sessional orders be agreed to: electorate. 1. Reference of bills to committees (1) That a standing committee, to be known as I do not think that anyone in this chamber the Selection of Bills Committee, be ap- should feel comfortable and relaxed about Mr pointed to consider all bills introduced into Howard’s promise that only a third of Telstra the Senate or received from the House of would be sold during his first term of office. Representatives, except bills which contain no provisions other than provisions appro- We have seen already a clear propensity on priating revenue or moneys, and to report: the part of this new government to break the (a) in respect of each such bill, whether the election promises that were made, such as the bill should be referred to a Legislative promise that only 2,500 public sector workers and General Purpose Standing Commit- were going. Already we have got department tee; and heads hinting that not only will there be very (b) in respect of each bill recommended for significant numbers more going than the referral to a standing committee: 2,500 indicated in the election campaign but, (i) the standing committee to which the of course, now those numbers will not be bill should be referred, from natural attrition. (ii) the stage in the consideration of the bill at which it should be referred to the In my own shadow portfolio area, we heard standing committee, and that all social security entitlements would be (iii) the day which should be fixed for the on the table after a clear and unequivocal standing committee to report on the commitment to maintain them. Another bill. example is the maintenance of funding for the (2) That the following provisions apply to the ABC. Committee: (a) the Committee consist of the Government So I think that there will be a great deal of Whip and 2 other Senators nominated by concern in the community about the govern- the Leader of the Government, the Oppo- ment’s willingness and commitment to honour sition Whip and 2 other Senators nomi- its election promises. The key election prom- nated by the Leader of the Opposition, ise in relation to the proposed sale of one- and the Whips of any minority groups; third of Telstra will be no more than just the (b) the quorum of the Committee be 4 mem- bers; thin end of the wedge, as will be the proposal (c) the Chair of the Committee be the of limited foreign ownership. I do urge the Government Whip, and the Chair appoint Senate to take this early opportunity to reject from time to time a Deputy Chair to act this proposal by supporting the amendment as Chair when the Chair is not present at that I have proposed. a meeting; and (d) in the event of votes on a question before Debate (on motion by Senator Kemp) the Committee being equally divided, the adjourned. Chair, or the Deputy Chair when acting as Chair, have a casting vote. TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF (3) That, where the Committee reports on any sitting day, the report be presented after COMMITTEES consideration of formal motions. (4) That, following the presentation of a report The PRESIDENT—Pursuant to standing by the Committee, the Chair of the Commit- order 12, I lay on the table a further warrant tee, or a member of the Committee on nominating Senators Childs, Colston, behalf of the Chair, may move without McKiernan, Reynolds and West as Temporary notice a motion for the adoption of the Chairmen of Committees when the Deputy report. President and Chairman of Committees is (5) That amendments may be moved to a absent. motion under paragraph (4), including Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 105

amendments to refer to a standing commit- the bill accordingly, but may not be tee any bill of the kind referred to in para- moved if other proposed amendments to graph (1) which is not the subject of a the bill have been circulated in the Senate motion moved pursuant to paragraph (4). by a Senator); (6) That an amendment of the kind referred to (b) if a motion under subparagraph (a) is in paragraph (5) shall specify: moved, following the disposal of that (a) the standing committee to which the bill motion a motion may be moved by a is to be referred; minister, or, in respect of a bill intro- duced into either House of the Parliament (b) the stage in the consideration of the bill other than by a minister, by the Senator at which it is to be referred to the com- in charge of the bill, that consideration of mittee; and the bill be an order of the day for a future (c) the day on which the committee is to day, or that the bill not be further pro- report. ceeded with; (7) That, upon a motion moved pursuant to (c) if no motion under subparagraph (a) or paragraph (4), a Senator shall not speak for (b) is agreed to, a motion may be moved more than 5 minutes, and at the expiration without notice that the bill again be of 30 minutes, if the debate be not sooner referred to the standing committee for concluded, the President shall put the ques- reconsideration, provided that such mo- tion on the motion and any amendments tion: before the Chair, but if a Senator wishes to move a further amendment at that time, that (i) indicates the matters which the stand- amendment may be moved and shall be ing committee is to reconsider, and determined without debate. (ii) fixes the day for the further report of (8) That, where a motion moved pursuant to the standing committee, paragraph (4) is agreed to with or without and if such motion is agreed to the bill shall amendment, at the conclusion of the stage stand referred to the standing committee, of the consideration of a bill referred to in and the further consideration of the bill shall the report adopted by that motion or in an be an order of the day for the day fixed for amendment, the bill shall stand referred to the further report of the standing committee; the standing committee specified, and the and further consideration of the bill shall be an order of the day for the day fixed for the (d) if no motion under subparagraph (b) or presentation of the report of the standing (c) is agreed to, consideration of the bill committee. shall be resumed at the stage at which it was referred to the standing committee, (9) That, in considering a bill referred to it provided that, if the consideration of the pursuant to this order, a standing committee bill in committee of the whole has been shall have no power to make amendments concluded and the standing committee has to the bill or requests for amendments, but recommended amendments to the bill or may recommend amendments or requests for requests for amendments, the bill shall amendments which would be in order if again be considered in committee of the proposed in a committee of the whole. whole. (10) That a report from a standing committee (12) Where: relating to a bill referred to it under this order shall be received by the Senate (a) the Selection of Bills Committee rec- without debate, and consideration of the ommends that a bill be referred to a report deferred until the order of the day select committee; or relating to the bill is called on. (b) a Senator indicates that the Senator (11) That, when the order of the day relating intends to move to establish a select to a bill which is the subject of a standing committee to consider a bill or to refer committee report pursuant to this order is a bill to an existing select committee, called on, the following procedures shall this order shall have effect as if each refer- apply: ence to a standing committee included (a) a motion may be moved without notice reference to a select committee. that the report of the standing committee (13) That the foregoing provisions of this be adopted (if the standing committee has resolution, so far as they are inconsistent recommended amendments to the bill, this with the standing orders, have effect motion shall have the effect of amending notwithstanding anything contained in the 106 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

standing orders, but without limiting the 6. Speaking times—debate on motions operation of standing orders 25 and 115. That, subject to the time limits applying to speci- 2. Motions and amendments to refer bills to fied debates: committees—time limits (a) a Senator shall not speak for more than 20 minutes in a debate on any motion; That, in debate on a motion on notice and a motion under standing order 115 to refer a bill to a com- (b) the time taken to make and determine points mittee, and on an amendment for that purpose to a of order shall not be regarded as part of the question in respect of any stage in the passage of speaking time of a Senator; and a bill after its second reading, a Senator shall not (c) the time taken to form a quorum shall not speak for more than 5 minutes, and at the expir- be regarded as part of the speaking time of ation of 30 minutes, if the debate be not sooner a Senator. concluded, the President shall put the question on 7. Broadcasting of legislation committees when the motion and any amendments before the Chair, considering estimates but if a Senator wishes to move a further amend- ment at that time, that amendment may be moved That the public proceedings of legislation commit- and shall be determined without debate. tees when considering estimates may be relayed within Parliament House and broadcast by radio 3. Debate on bills received from the House of and television stations in accordance with the Representatives conditions contained in paragraphs (4) and (5) of the Order of the Senate of 23 August 1990 relating (1) That, when a motion for the second reading to the broadcasting of committee proceedings, and of a bill received from the House of Repre- in accordance with any further conditions, not sentatives is moved and no motion for the inconsistent with the conditions contained in those adjournment of debate on that motion is paragraphs, determined by a committee in relation moved, or when an order of the day for the to the proceedings of that committee. consideration of a motion for the second reading of such a bill is called on, and no 8. Times of sitting and routine of business Senator indicates, by writing provided to the That, notwithstanding anything contained in the President before that time or orally at that standing orders, the following procedures apply: time, that the Senator requires debate on the (1) The days and times of meeting of the motion for the second reading, the question Senate in each sitting week shall be as on that motion shall be put forthwith with- follows: out debate. Monday and Tuesday 2 pm—6.30 pm (2) That, when the motion for the second 7.30 pm—10.30 pm reading of a bill has been put without debate in accordance with paragraph (1), a Wednesday and Thursday 9 am—8 pm Senator shall not speak for more than 5 (2) (a) On Monday and Tuesday the routine of minutes to the motion for the third reading business shall be: of that bill. (i) Questions 4. Motions for suspension of standing orders— (ii) Motions to take note of answers limitation of debate (iii) Petitions That, notwithstanding anything contained in the standing orders, in a debate on a motion for the (iv) Notices of motion suspension of any standing or other order a Senator (v) Postponement and rearrangement of shall not speak for more than 5 minutes, and if the business debate is not concluded at the expiration of 30 (vi) Formal motions—discovery of formal minutes after the moving of the motion the question business on the motion shall then be put. (vii) Any proposal to debate a matter of 5. Parliamentary secretaries—powers public importance or urgency That any Senator appointed a parliamentary secre- (viii) Not later than 5 pm, government tary under the Parliamentary Secretaries Act 1980 business may exercise the powers and perform the functions (ix) At 9.20 pm, consideration of govern- conferred upon ministers by the procedures of the ment documents for up to 30 minutes Senate, but may not be asked or answer questions under standing order 61 (Tuesday only) which may be put to ministers under standing order 72(1) or represent a minister before a legislation (x) At 9.50 pm, adjournment proposed committee considering estimates. (xi) At 10.30 pm, adjournment. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 107

(b) On Wednesday the routine of business ing order 61 concludes before the shall be: expiration of 30 minutes on Tuesday (i) Government business or Wednesday, the question for the adjournment shall then be proposed. (ii) At 12.45 pm, matters of public interest under sessional order (b) Debate on the question for the adjourn- ment shall not exceed 40 minutes, and (iii) At 2 pm, questions a Senator shall not speak to that ques- (iv) Motions to take note of answers tion for more than 10 minutes. (v) Petitions (c) At the expiration of 40 minutes, or at (vi) Notices of motion the conclusion of debate, whichever is the earlier, or if there is no debate, the (vii) Postponement and rearrangement of President shall adjourn the Senate business without putting the question. (viii) Formal motions—discovery of for- (4) The consideration of government docu- mal business ments for up to 30 minutes under (ix) Any debate on committee reports standing order 61 shall be called on (x) Any proposal to debate a matter of only on Tuesday at 9.20 pm and Wed- public importance or urgency nesday at 6.50 pm. (xi) Not later than 6 pm, government busi- (5) (a) If a committee report is presented ness after the discovery of formal busi- ness and before the commence- (xii) At 6.50 pm, consideration of govern- ment of any other business on ment documents for up to 30 Wednesday or Thursday, a motion minutes under standing order 61 may be moved relating to the (xiii) At 7.20 pm, adjournment proposed report. (xiv) At 8 pm, adjournment. (b) A Senator speaking to such a motion (c) On Thursday the routine of business shall shall not speak for more than 10 be: minutes, and debate on all such (i) Government business motions shall not exceed one hour. (ii) At 2 pm, questions (c) If a debate is not concluded at the expiration of that time the debate (iii) Motions to take note of answers shall be made an order of the day for (iv) Petitions Thursday at the time for consider- (v) Notices of motion ation of committee reports. (vi) Postponement and rearrangement of (6) Matters of public interest may be business discussed under sessional order only between 12.45 pm and 2 pm on (vii) Formal motions—discovery of for- Wednesday. mal business (viii) Any debate on committee reports (7) Immediately after question time on any day motions may be moved to (ix) Any proposal to debate a matter of take note of answers given to ques- public importance or urgency tions without notice in accordance (x) Not later than 4.30 pm, general busi- with the terms of the sessional orders ness (including further consideration of relating to questions without notice. government documents) (8) Debate on a matter of public import- (xi) Consideration of committee reports and ance or urgency motion under stand- government responses under standing ing order 75 shall not exceed one order 62 hour, or, if no motions are moved after question time to take note of (xii) At 7.20 pm, adjournment proposed answers, 90 minutes, and a Senator (xiii) At 8 pm, adjournment. shall not speak to such a matter or (3) (a) The question for the adjournment of motion for more than 10 minutes. the Senate shall be proposed at 9.50 (9) Where a motion is moved by leave pm on Mondays and Tuesdays and in relation to a document presented 7.20 pm on Wednesdays and Thurs- to the Senate, including a document days, but if the consideration of presented to the President when the government documents under stand- Senate is not sitting, a senator speak- 108 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

ing to such a motion shall not speak (d) the time taken in raising and determining for more than 10 minutes, and debate any points of order during debate under this on the motion shall not exceed 30 order shall not be regarded as part of the minutes; where two or more such time allowed for debate under this order. motions are moved in succession, debate on all motions shall not ex- 13. Consideration of committee reports and ceed 60 minutes. government responses 9. Consideration of government documents— That consideration of committee reports and amendment of standing order government responses under standing order 62 take place on Thursdays, after the time for the consider- That the following amendment of standing order 61 ation of general business. operate as a sessional order: After paragraph (1), insert the following paragraph: Senator HILL (South Australia—Leader of "(1A) Immediately after prayers on any day the Government in the Senate) (11.56 a.m.)— when consideration of government documents One of the first tasks of any new Senate is to occurs, a minister may present documents by put in place its sessional orders, the last handing them to the Clerk without any an- sessional orders having expired with the nouncement to the Senate, and the presentation commencement of this sitting. In this in- of such documents shall be reported to the stance, the new government has given con- Senate by the President when the consideration siderable attention to drafting a suggested set of government documents is called on under this standing order.". of sessional orders that I think is both fair to all senators but also reflects the need and 10. Matters of public interest commitment of the government to get its That, notwithstanding anything contained in the legislation dealt with by this chamber. standing orders, on Wednesdays at 12.45 pm till 2 pm matters of public interest may be discussed by Honourable senators would have read the senators without any question before the Chair, details of the proposed sessional orders as provided that a senator shall not speak for more they appear in the Notice Paper. In fact, than 15 minutes, and if a division is called for, shall be taken at a later hour of the day, not being honourable senators would have read them earlier than 2 pm. earlier because the basis of the drafts as they 11. Questions without notice—time limits appear in the Notice Paper was circulated to all parties last week by the Manager of That, during question time: Government Business in the Senate, Senator (a) the asking of each question not exceed 1 Kemp. minute and the answering of each question not exceed 4 minutes; You will see that we build upon the past (b) the asking of each supplementary question sessional orders and the experiences of the not exceed 1 minute and the answering of management of this place that have been each supplementary question not exceed 1 gained over a long period of time. In fact, minute; and there are not very many changes that we are (c) the time taken to make and determine points suggesting from the contents of the last set of of order not be regarded as part of the time sessional orders. for questions and answers. Most of these provisions, I would have 12. Answers to questions without notice— thought, are not contentious in any way. We limitation of debate had a few contentious ideas but during the That the following conditions apply to debate on consultation process we actually removed motions relating to answers given to questions without notice: them. So I am surprised that today we appar- ently do not have support from all corners of (a) motions shall relate only to answers given this chamber. that day to questions without notice; (b) a Senator may speak for not more than 5 The first of these sessional orders relates to minutes on such a motion; the reference of bills to committees. This is a good practice which was adopted some time (c) the total time for debate on all motions relating to answers to questions without ago in this place. It allows for an accelerated notice on any day shall not exceed 30 process of consideration of government minutes; and legislation by committees and is as an imp- Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 109 rovement in many ways on the committee of it, and just in case our good faith is not the whole debate within the chamber. I think totally appreciated by the new opposition, we that all senators believe it has worked reason- are proposing that this cut-off motion remain ably well. I think the legislation committees in the sessional orders. I do not think that that receive the bills through this mechanism there will be any opposition to that as well. could do even better in encouraging the The fourth sessional order is that which contribution of the public to the process. imposes limitations of debate in relation to One of the advantages of taking the bill out motions for suspension of standing orders. of the chamber and into the legislative com- That is a practice that has been in place for mittees is that the committee can then listen some time now, and I think that it has main- to the community. A strong democracy in tained wide support around the chamber. I many ways is demonstrated by the level of doubt that there will be any concern express- contribution of the community. Certainly, the ed about that. interest groups that are based in this city—the The fifth sessional order relates to the professional lobby groups and the like— powers of parliamentary secretaries. Again we become aware of these considerations by have simply adopted past practices, so I do committees and do contribute. It would be not think that there will be any dispute there. good if the wider public became better aware In passing, for the benefit of Senator of the process of consideration of these bills Faulkner, there is an argument that it might in committees and were given the opportunity be useful practice for parliamentary secretaries to contribute. I do not think, as far as I can to appear in estimates committees in relation work out, that there is any concern about to portfolios in which the minister in this reinstating the provisions for reference of bills chamber has a representational capacity. to committees. But if there is, no doubt we Nevertheless, as we objected to that on the will learn of it in the very near future. last occasion, we think that it is probably not The second of these sessional orders relates worth while revisiting that now. So the to time limits for motions and amendments to proposal we have here is in the same form refer bills to committees. As I recall it, that is that was previously agreed to by the Senate. again reinstating the existing provisions. I The sixth proposed sessional order relates have not heard any suggestion that there is a to the speaking times for debate on motions. wish within the chamber to change from those There has been in this place a trend towards procedures. encouraging shorter speeches. From time to The third sessional order that we put before time, we have objected to that; nevertheless, the Senate today is that which deals with on reflection, I think it is sound practice. debate on bills received from the House of Whatever cannot be said in 20 minutes is Representatives, which is what we commonly probably not worth saying. Furthermore, there refer to in here as the cut-off motion. Over a is always the option for the Senate— long period of time the Senate has sent a Senator Carr interjecting— message to the government of the day that, Senator HILL—We learn from experience, for it to effectively operate as a house of Senator. Some of us are prepared to concede review, there is a need for legislation to be that and recognise that we can all gain from given adequate time for consideration and experience. If the Senate was to adopt this therefore orderly process and the orderly motion, it would be a continuation of the introduction of bills into this place is sensible trend that has been adopted in recent times of practice. Unfortunately, Labor failed to encouraging speeches to be limited to 20 appreciate that and therefore the Senate, in the minutes. So this motion goes a little further past, felt that it needed to entrench that than the previous sessional orders, but it is in sentiment within the sessional orders. a direction consistent with what I think has We have a different attitude because we in been the sentiment of the majority in this fact recognise the importance of the principle. chamber. There may be some individuals that Nevertheless, rather than get into a debate on want to argue against that. I certainly would 110 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 not expect that the Labor Party would argue On Wednesdays and Thursdays we are against it because they have been calling for proposing that the Senate start at 9 a.m. and shorter speeches for some time as well. We finish at 8 p.m. We do not think that that is will await the response of the opposition and unreasonable. Some would say that it is a the minority parties. long day’s work, but it is not as if the Senate The seventh sessional order deals with sits every week. We think that when we are broadcasting of legislation committees when here the Senate should be sitting reasonable considering estimates. I think that is in the hours, and that is not unreasonable. same form as previously. I do not think there Once the issue of the times is settled, there is any contentious aspect to that and I would is the issue of the routine of business within not think that it would be opposed. those times. We have sought to protect the times available for non-government parties The eighth is that which deals with times of and individual senators. It is a very important sitting and routine of business. The times of part of the review process and of this sitting in this place have always been a chamber’s wider role as a second chamber. subject of vigorous debate and little unanimi- We have also sought to provide blocks of ty. I have witnessed many of those debates time for the government’s legislative program. over the last 15 years that I have been here, That would be a first if the Senate agrees to whether the Senate should or should not sit at that today. I think it would be a sensible night, whether it should start early in the reform. I would have thought that the Labor morning, whether it should sit during the Party, which constantly complained about the lunch break and what should be the terms and time for its legislation being encroached by conditions if it does sit through the lunch other business, would also come in here today break. What there is general agreement for, and say in good faith that that would be a these days, is that the old practices of sitting sensible reform. I look forward to hearing very long hours into the early mornings is Senator Faulkner’s response to that suggested unwise Senate practice. As my colleague change. We have designed this to protect time Senator Herron would say, it is bad for health. for the opposition and for individual senators I think that all senators these days believe that and minority parties. We have suggested some that is the case, and I hope that that practice block periods of time for government legisla- of the past will not be revisited. Certainly, it tion, and I commend that to the Senate as a is not accommodated within the proposals that sensible practice. we put. The ninth sessional order concerns the We are suggesting that on Monday and consideration of government documents. I do Tuesday the Senate meet from 2 p.m. to not think there will be any problem with that. enable cabinet meetings and the like to take Matters of public interest is item No. 10, place on Monday mornings and for party which reinstates the existing practice. Pro- meetings to take place on Tuesday mornings. posed new sessional order No. 11 deals with We propose that the Senate sit from 2 p.m. time limits for questions without notice. That until 6.30 p.m., after which there will be a has been the subject of long and tortuous dinner break for an hour and the Senate will debate in this place as well. Rather than re- continue to sit until 10.30 p.m. That would be visit that debate, we have suggested a con- relatively consistent with the House of Repre- tinuation of the existing times. I presume that sentatives, which now gets up at 11 p.m. We that will continue to be supported by the have decided, on reflection, that two evening chamber. The twelfth sessional order relates sittings on the first two days of the week to the limitation of debate on motions relating would be sensible Senate practice. It would to answers to questions without notice. I think enable more business to be transacted, which those time limits will be supported. The last is what the public wants of us. It would not sessional order we provide relates to the con- require the Senate to be sitting unreasonably sideration of committee reports and govern- late hours. Therefore, we are putting it to the ment responses, which I think is also in the Senate for its consideration today. same form as before. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 111

It will therefore be evident to you, Mr cooperatively with the government and the Acting Deputy President, that what we are minor parties in the Senate. We are interested putting up for the consideration of this cham- in working out these sessional orders in the ber for its sessional orders for this session is best interests of all senators. That is the very much what we have had in the past, with standpoint from which we come. I do not just a number of changes—in particular, some believe the most appropriate way to conduct changes to the sitting hours which we think this debate is here in this chamber at this time flow from our experiences of recent times. because of the range of views that exists on When I say ‘our experiences’, I mean the all the different sessional orders that have experiences of senators as a whole. The been referred to across the Senate chamber. reform would give the government some block periods for the consideration of its The opposition comes to this debate with a legislative program, which would seem to be lot of recent experience in government and a reasonable, and some further reduction of clear understanding of how Senate processes speaking times. can be abused. We have, as a government, suffered that for a very long period of time. I therefore commend these new sessional You, Senator Hill, are an absolute expert in orders to the Senate. As I said, they were Senate obstructionism. You, Senator Hill, are circulated to honourable senators last week, an absolute expert in wasting the time of a so there has been plenty of time for the government. You are an absolute expert in opposition party, minority parties and inde- disrupting a legislative program. You have pendents to form opinions on them. We seen it from this side of the chamber. would certainly wish that they be adopted today and put into place; otherwise, as I Senator Hill—You use that to excuse your understand it, we revert to the old standing managerial incompetence. orders which were the subject of previous Senator FAULKNER—In your contribu- reform and therefore would be considered by tion earlier you said there has been some most to be a less preferable alternative. ‘reflection’—that was the word you used—on In many ways this will be the first test for a whole number of sessional orders. That is the new opposition—whether it is prepared to code for saying that on many issues Senator approach this debate in a constructive way, Hill now believes that the case I put in rela- whether it is going to come in here and use tion to better, more streamlined and more its relations with the minority parties and the effective processes in this chamber was a numbers that can be created through that good one. It is code for saying that he was simply to be a nuisance and to waste the time wrong. It is really code for saying that the of the chamber, or whether it is going to say propositions he put forward in opposition from its experience that what we are suggest- were grossly hypocritical. That is what I think ing is sound and sensible and therefore be everyone in this chamber needs to understand. prepared to support it. I do in fact agree with much of what Senator FAULKNER (New South Wales— Senator Hill has said. I do in fact agree with Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) many of the arguments he puts forward. I do (12.13 p.m.)—I do not agree with Senator believe that there is a lot of common ground Hill when he said that this is the first test of between the government and opposition in the opposition. If it were, perhaps he might relation to our approaches to what would be consider that the first test of the new govern- appropriate sessional orders for this chamber. ment was the extraordinary performance that But I also happen to believe very strongly Senator Kemp and Senator Hill managed to that the most inappropriate way of trying to engage in this morning. With the cooperation finalise this issue is this sort of debate in the of the opposition, we tried to work out what, chamber now. frankly, were a number of simple procedural matters for this Senate. At the outset, Senator Senator Hill—Do you remember when you Hill, we actually are interested in working let us go for a week on a procedural matter? 112 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Senator FAULKNER—I do remember it. to and reflect the sitting times of the House I remember it vividly because when I ap- of Representatives to a significant degree has proached the then opposition to work through merit and it is something we can work those issues in a sensible way, I didn’t get through. There are different views on that in agreement on issues such as limiting speeches this chamber and they have been expressed on in the second reading debate in this chamber many occasions. to 20 minutes. You were implacably opposed Senator Hill—Does the opposition have a to that particular reform. view? Senator Hill—Was I? Senator FAULKNER—At one point I Senator FAULKNER—Implacably op- became absolutely convinced that the really posed. There was a division at the conclusion strong arguments you and members of the of one of the longest procedural debates in government, such as Senator Herron, put the history of the Senate—I believe your vote forward—that we shouldn’t ever sit beyond was recorded during that division, Senator early evening—were valid. These views were Hill—and the case that was put forward by put by members of the then Liberal-National very many then opposition speakers was opposition with tremendous enthusiasm. These something that was not embraced by the were arguments of very great principle and government, but it is something that you have passion, presented to this chamber. done an enormous backflip, three turns and a Senator Hill—What is your view now? pike on today. Now, not only do you agree with the contribution I made at that time and Senator FAULKNER—My view is that the think it is a tremendous piece of Senate only way to deal with all of these matters of reform, but you are also actually looking to contention, and all of those sessional orders extend it beyond speeches in the second that are agreed around the chamber, is to have reading debate to a range of other speeches in a brief adjournment of this matter to deal with this chamber. That measure would go, for it outside the chamber, to work the issues example, to motions of censure of ministers through. I believe that process can be con- and the like. And you may have a strong case. cluded certainly, with ease, by the beginning of the next sitting week. I believe that is a Senator Hill—But you oppose it. very sensible approach to these issues. Senator FAULKNER—No, you may have a strong case. Not only do I support a limita- Senator Vanstone—What’s your starting tion of speeches in the second reading debate position? to 20 minutes; I also put to you that we solve Senator FAULKNER—My starting posi- that issue for the long term and show our tion in relation to sitting times is that, with level of commitment by enshrining those some minor amendments, the arguments are changes in the standing orders of the Senate. strong for the Senate sitting hours to reflect I support absolutely many of the sessional those of the House of Representatives. But I orders that you are proposing today and I am flexible. I am willing to negotiate. I am believe they should be enshrined in the willing to talk not only with the government standing orders of the Senate. I would certain- but also with the Australian Democrats, the ly support the government if it proposed to do Western Australian Greens and Senator that. Harradine. I am willing to undergo a proper But what we have in the chamber is a process to work this through. situation where there are a range of views on I do not much care whether the process is a number of different procedural issues and a a formal one through the Procedure Commit- range of views on some aspects of these tee or an informal one around the table proposed sessional orders. The most obvious outside the chamber—I do not much care ones are the times of sitting and the routine what the nature of the process is—but, as I of business. The opposition has a view in have said to the government informally, that relation to this. I think Senator Hill’s argu- is the way to go and I believe we can solve ment about the Senate trying to work closely it by the beginning of the next sitting week. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 113

That will mean that there will be significantly Senator Hill—So you are not prepared to less time wasted on a whole range of un- agree to any part of it? necessary procedural debates in this chamber. Senator FAULKNER—That is a deliberate Those opposite are now the government. and malicious misinterpretation of what I have They have changed their views and now said, or a deliberate misunderstanding of what broadly reflect the view that the Labor Party I have said. I have said very clearly what the held in government and would not be hypo- opposition’s approach is. critical enough to change now that we are on Senator Hill—Tell me what parts you this side of the chamber. We are willing to agree to, then we can limit the debate. sort it out. We want to sort it out. Senator FAULKNER—Of course we can Senator Hill, in his contribution, canvassed limit it but would it not be more sensible— the cut-off motion. That does not actually Senator Hill—Just tell me. You have had reflect the motion before us because it is time to reflect on it. Why don’t you put your subject to a separate notice of motion. But I house in order! agree that it is an important issue. I agree that Senator FAULKNER—You have presided the sitting times of the Senate is an important this morning over one of the greatest she- issue for us to work through. I agree that the mozzles we have ever seen in the Senate routine of the business of the Senate needs to chamber. Poor old Senator Kemp over there be sorted through. I agree that it is dependent turned white. It was one of the worst perform- on the times of sitting of this chamber. ances anyone has ever seen. Don’t you talk The issue of the length of speeches is about getting our house in order. Everything important. I think the government mounted a you have done in relation to Senate proced- very persuasive case about that. It might be ures has been an appalling mess-up. You have a little different from some of the cases the not kicked a goal in this chamber in relation coalition has presented over the years but I to Senate procedures. found it terribly persuasive. There are also You did not get your act together until the some issues in relation to the Procedure very end of last week. You know you could Committee report, specifically in relation to not provide to any senator any proposed estimates committees, that need a little reflec- standing order or proposed sessional order up tion. until a day or so ago. It has been a pathetic I put to the government and minor party performance. You were expecting a debate on representatives in the chamber that, by the this matter an hour or so ago. Senator Kemp commencement of the next parliament, we blew that as well and we ended up on the should have obviated the need for this sort of address-in-reply debate. That is a very hypo- debate by incorporating, where there is agree- critical statement for you, Senator Hill, to ment across the chamber, many of these make. agreed sessional orders—most of them are Let me say that we agree with the proposal agreed—in the standing orders. That would be in terms of reference of bills to committees, a sensible reform. I would be happy to co- which I think works comparatively well. I operate with the government to ensure that we note that there is a minor change of wording see that significant step forward in Senate in that particular proposed sessional order. process and procedure. That does not concern me. I believe that But I suggest to the government that the sessional order No. 2, which Senator Hill sensible way of doing that is to have either agreed to, is appropriate and I see no reason formal or informal negotiations. I believe that why some of these should not be incorporated by Monday of next week we ought to have an in the standing orders. agreed position. If we do not have an agreed The opposition has also had a similar view position, at least we should be in the position on motions for suspension of standing orders of ensuring that the areas of disagreement are in relation to the powers of parliamentary absolutely limited to just a few issues. secretaries. I have indicated what our position 114 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 is on speaking times. I am personally perfect- or the ones we previously had—and what the ly comfortable with the broadcasting of standing orders envisage. I will listen to your legislation committees. We are happy, as I advice on that issue. have said, within the framework I have That is the sensible way forward and that is indicated, to work through the issues of times the way to get a cooperative outcome—an of sitting and routine of business. There are agreed outcome—that will limit the areas of only a few areas which I have identified dispute, limit the areas of disagreement and which need be subject to further consider- limit the need for a long and turgid procedur- ation, but it will be better— al debate in this chamber. That is what I Senator Hill—Tell us which ones you would propose as a sensible approach on agree to. these issues. Senator FAULKNER—I have gone Senator CHAMARETTE (Western Aus- through them, Senator. I do not want to go tralia) (12.33 p.m.)—I want to put on the through them again. record where the WA Greens stand in relation Senator Hill—But you are deliberately to the motion moved on behalf of Senator doing it in an ambiguous way, aren’t you? Hill. I noted that Senator Hill asked rather Tell us which ones you agree to. plaintively of Senator Faulkner whether there Senator FAULKNER—If you have not got were any parts of the motion that we were it on board, let me say it to you again. There prepared to agree to at this time. I think it is the issue of the cut-off motion, which you would really simplify the entire debate if we addressed in your comments, so it is not adjourned until 6 May the motion that we are subject to this particular motion. There are the currently discussing, as suggested by Senator times of sitting and the routine of business. Faulkner, but if in the interim the sessional There is the issue of the limitation of orders in relation to all matters revert to those speeches, but I must say I was convinced by used in the previous sittings. If we do that, the contribution you made on that. There is my understanding is that some of the matters the question of participating members on covered in Senator Hill’s motion will be estimates committees, which is dealt with in automatically put in place as they are identi- one of the Procedure Committee reports. cal to those we had in the last sitting. Some There is the issue of incorporating in the will not, and those remaining matters can be standing orders all the agreed sessional orders dealt with when we resume after adjourning. and the issue of ensuring that we deal with an That is the position the Greens would approach to question time which, unless we support—that we revert in the interim to the sort it out outside the chamber, will probably previous sessional orders and that we adjourn lead to some long—but, most importantly, any further debate on this motion until Mon- unnecessary—procedural debate. day, when those sessional orders that are That is the approach the government is different from the previous sessional orders taking. The sensible thing to do, particularly will stand out quite clearly and we can debate given that the government has not got its act them on their merits and introduce them. That together, is to have a very short adjournment is the position we hold and we would be on this. We either formally refer it to the pleased to cooperate in any informal arrange- Procedure Committee or deal with it informal- ments such as meeting together to achieve a ly. I think it can be done informally, with the consensus position. senators around the chamber. I think that will Senator BOURNE (New South Wales) be a more sensible approach. Either way, in (12.35 p.m.)—I actually feel quite sorry for the meantime, I will listen to the advice of the Senator Hill. I have a file about an inch thick government on what you want to propose for of his former speeches from the last parlia- Wednesday and Thursday of this week in ment. Senator Kemp’s is very interesting terms of routine of business—whether you reading also. I will not read them out at the want to look at some temporary sessional moment. I will wait until we actually come to orders, whether they be the ones you propose doing routine matters. I suggest to Senator Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 115

Kemp and Senator Hill that they go back and we adopted in February 1994 after the last have a quick look so they will be prepared for large Procedure Committee report. The first that. I do not think I am the only one who has sessional order dealing with the reference of a file an inch thick like that; I think there are bills to committees was put forward as a a few people who do. Democrat motion many years ago, in the Let me just go through a couple of things 1980s. It was Senator Macklin’s idea in the that Senator Hill said. First of all, he said first place. We still think it is a very good ‘during the consultation process’. This sound- idea. It enables the public to have an input ed as if there was a consultation process. The into bills, which we now all agree is a very consultation process, as far as I know, was as good thing. So of course we are still going to follows. Senator Kemp certainly did try very think that is a good thing. The second sug- hard. He had a paper which was very well gested sessional order deals with time limits written and informative, and he did come on motions and amendments to refer bills to around and discuss that with me. That was committees. In general, I think we do have to consultation, and I thank him for that. have more severe time limits. Senator Faulkner has made that point already, far If there is one thing that we in this chamber better than I could. should have learnt from the last session of parliament, it is that, if we want to get some- Debate on motions for suspension of stand- thing that will work, we have to have general ing orders has to be limited. That was an agreement. I think that the current government extraordinarily sensible sessional order. I do probably knows as well as anybody that, if not know why it is not in standing orders; I you disagree with what has been imposed on believe it ought to be. That was put in ses- upon you, it is very easy to destroy the sional orders—like the first one on Friday business of the Senate. It is far too easy to do. committees—many years ago, I think in the Imposition with numbers is something that the early 1980s. We really should have that in current opposition, when they were in govern- standing orders. Why do we keep putting it ment, tried not to do, because that is exactly back into sessional orders when we think it is what happened to them all the time. such a good idea? Why don’t we just put it in I would rather that did not happen to this standing orders and, if it turns out to be a government. I would rather that did not disaster in 50 or 100 years, we will change it happen to any government. The way to get again. over that is to have round table consultation, I have no problem with the proposed either informally—which, I think, in this sessional order dealing with the powers of instance, is the best way to go, because we parliamentary secretaries. I do not personally want to do it pretty quickly, and I think we have a problem with the 20-minute time limit can—or else through the Procedure Commit- for each senator speaking in a debate on any tee. The last Procedure Committee inquiry motion. Considering that the opposition, into the days and hours of sitting had some which constitutes a very large part of the very forceful evidence about long hours, not chamber, does have a problem with that, we enough sleep and that sort of thing. I hope we should sit down and discuss it until we come will keep that in mind for any other consulta- to an agreement. The sessional order dealing tion that we have. with broadcasting is fine. We need a much more thorough and inclu- The really big one that will need discussion sive consultation process. I am very pleased is times of sitting and routine of business. We to see that Senator Hill and Senator Kemp are may not need a lot of discussion; I think we doing a lot of reflecting and are benefiting a are getting close to resolving the issue. The lot from experience. I think that will be to the main thing that the government wants is benefit of all of us. blocks of government business. That is a very We agree with a lot of the proposed ses- good idea, and it was a very good idea when sional orders. As Senator Hill said, a lot of the last government suggested it. If I recall, them are identical to the sessional orders that it was the last opposition which thought it 116 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 was a bad idea. I shouldn’t give this away, anybody that oppositions can cause she- but I will: I said to Senator Kemp, ‘As you mozzles just as easily as governments can. will recall, Senator Kemp’. He said, ‘Never say that to me. Say, "As you will not recall, Senator Carr—Not today. Senator Kemp"’. That was very nice of him. Senator BOURNE—Senator Carr says ‘Not That is a lovely sense of humour, and I enjoy today’. Today was quite interesting. It must it. As anyone who reads Hansard will recall, he very difficult becoming a government after the current government thought it was a bad being in opposition for 13 years. idea. I still think it is a good idea. I under- stand that the current opposition, which Senator Faulkner—I’ll describe it as a thought it was a good idea in the past, still government shemozzle. thinks it is a good idea. Senator BOURNE—Senator Faulkner says it is a government shemozzle. It must also be I am not quite sure that we need a quarter quite difficult becoming an opposition after as much time again of the time we had for being in government for 13 years. possible government business time. If the opposition, the Democrats, the Greens and Senator Faulkner—I can confirm that it is Senator Harradine do not find the opportuni- not the best. ties to disrupt the business, the same amount—or even a bit more—of government Senator BOURNE—I thank Senator Faulk- business in blocks will mean that the govern- ner for confirming that. We have to allow ment actually gets more done. Perhaps it is a each other a fair bit of slack for the first good idea. I think we should talk about it. couple of weeks. Let us do so until Monday. That is the point: we should talk about it. We should have an agreed position by then; we nearly have one now. If we don’t come to some agreement today, Senator KEMP (Victoria—Parliamentary we will revert to standing orders. Those Secretary to the Minister for Social Security) standing orders are from a considerable time (12.43 p.m.)—In the very short time available away; we have been working under quite before we rise for lunch, I will make a couple different sessional orders since February 1994. of very brief points. There was an attempt, When I suggested in the meeting of the which I think Senator Bourne mentioned, to Procedure Committee before the end of the put forward the government’s position and to last Parliament that we maintain the 1994 seek views. The consultations have been sessional orders, no-one would agree. We informal, with some senators being immedi- ought to consider going back to the 1994 ately forthcoming with their views and others sessional orders and working under those. wanting to take some time. There has been an This is only until Monday. I was going to say attempt to put forward the government’s that I don’t know why we are having this position so that we could receive the views of debate in the chamber and not outside, but I the opposition, the minor parties and the guess there is not an awful lot else to do in independents. This debate has so far shown the chamber. So it is fair enough really. that we seem to be in blazing agreement. I think I heard the Leader of the Opposition in Senator Faulkner said that this morning was the Senate, Senator Faulkner, say that he one of the greatest shemozzles the Senate has agrees with 95 per cent of the government’s ever had. That is going a bit far. It is very proposal. Agreement has not been reached on often not the government’s fault when there the precise sitting times and there are some is a shemozzle. When there seems to be total issues arising in relation to the routine of anarchy in the chamber, it is in fact due to a government business. Those are the matters collection of motives from different people which still seem to be outstanding, but there across the chamber. I do not think the govern- has been an attempt to seek agreement. ment can be blamed for shemozzles. This government was until very recently in oppo- Sitting suspended from 12.45 p.m. sition; I think they understand as well as to 2.00 p.m. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 117

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE made specific promises to small business, we made specific promises to families, we made The PRESIDENT—In the absence of specific promises to the battlers, specific agreement between the parties and Independ- promises on health and specific promises to ent senators on the allocation of questions the elderly, and it is our intention to rebuild during question time, I will be allocating the respect of the Australian people that you questions in the same pattern as in the previ- forfeited. ous parliament. This, of course, will be subject to further discussion by party whips Senator FAULKNER—Mr President, I ask and Independent senators. I understand also a supplementary question. Does this mean that that informal agreement has been reached to you will be cutting government expenditure apply the time limits operating under session- by $8 billion over the next two years and at al order 14 on 30 November 1995 to today’s the same time will not introduce any new question time and, with the concurrence of the taxes or increase existing taxes, and you will Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clocks limit Public Service cuts to 2,500 by natural accordingly. attrition and maintain funding for both the ABC and defence? Election Promises Senator HILL—Senator Faulkner knows Senator FAULKNER—My question is the extent to which his colleagues—and I do directed to Senator Hill as Leader of the not know about him—misled the Australian Government in the Senate. Does your govern- people on the state of the books. When we ment stand by the statements made by the got into government, what did we find despite now Prime Minister on 19 February this year all the undertakings and promises to the cont- that, if it comes to the point between breaking rary? In fact, there was a gaping black hole in election promises and running a budget the budget forecast of some $8 billion—Mr deficit, you will stand by your promises? Beazley’s black hole, the Minister for Finance Senator HILL—I thank the Leader of the responsible for that economic failure. We Opposition for his question. The opposition have to address that failure and address that has a nerve to ask us a question about broken deficit. promises. When in government this opposition made an art form of broken promises. The What would you have done in the past? worst aspect about it was that it was then a You would have said, ‘We will now break government which had no intention of ever our promises and put up taxation.’ We do not keeping its promises. When your government believe that that is in the best interests of the went to the people in 1993 and promised that economy or rebuilding Australia, particularly there would be no increase in taxation, you small business and providing jobs. As an alt- had no intention of keeping that promise. ernative we say that the way we should res- pond to it is by tackling the expenditure side. It is that attitude and disrespect for the What you were not prepared to do in govern- Australian people that played a big part in ment—you did not have the courage—we will their determination that you were no longer fit have the courage to do. (Time expired) to govern. Despite your promise, when you got back into government, having misled the Australian Labor Party: Policies people, what did you do? Up went indirect taxes, up went wine taxes and up went fuel Senator ELLISON—My question is direct- taxes—leaded and unleaded fuel. The tax on ed to Senator Hill. I refer the Leader of the fuel put a special and extra burden on the less Government in the Senate to the recent well off in the Australian community, and so statement by the shadow Treasurer, Mr Gareth it went on. Evans, on 4 April this year when questioned on whether Labor would be espousing differ- But, in order to answer your question speci- ent policies. He said: fically, the difference is that this is a govern- ment which is committed to keeping its prom- On the whole, I don’t think so, because the values ises. We think that that is important. We and visions will remain basically the same. 118 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

I ask: has the government conducted an The PRESIDENT—Order! There are too analysis of the last 13 years of Labor being in many interjections on my left. All senators power? have a right to ask questions and to hear the Senator HILL—I thank the honourable answers. senator for his perceptive question. Senator HILL—Whether it is the foreign debt, whether it is the current account deficit Opposition senators interjecting— or whether it is interest rates in real terms, Senator HILL—It is you who should be which are still about the highest in the indus- embarrassed because the legacy of 13 years trialised world, you failed to understand how of wasted Labor time is before all Australians. all of these macro-economic factors in fact It is not only our responsibility now to tackle make it harder for people to get work and this legacy, but it is a legacy that is at a cost make it harder for the Australian living to all Australians. You should be so embar- standard to rise. For many Australians who rassed that you passed over a situation where are out of work as a result of your failure and we find three-quarters of a million Australians for many other Australians, the legacy of out of work. That is the worst part of your Labor was actually falling living standards, legacy and you should sit there and blush. falling real wages. There are three-quarters of a million Austral- You talked a lot about the social wage but ians out of work, so many more underemp- most Australians were interested in what was loyed, so many lost opportunities and so in the pocket or what was in the purse and many aspirations and hopes disappointed. under you it was worse. There is no doubt That is your legacy. that the challenge before the new government Senator Bolkus—No-one believes you. is great. It is a major challenge because of your failure. We will meet that challenge. We Senator HILL—They do not believe it? will do a lot better and we will do it by You do not speak to the unemployed; that is standing true to the promises we made. the point. This demonstrates again why they were so unceremoniously thrown out of Information Technology government. They did not care. Those oppos- Senator COOK—My question is directed ite lost touch with the so many Australians to the Minister representing the Minister for who were not living their life of luxury and Finance. Does the minister agree with the comfort, who were not dealing with the elites view widely held in business and in the that they dealt with on a day by day basis— community, and recently neatly put by the that is, ordinary Australians who are battling Chief Government Information Officer to the to make ends meet, who are battling to keep Minister for Finance, Mr Fahey, that: their jobs. You lost touch with them and so many suffered as a result of your inept poli- . . . information technology should not be singled out as an expense item but be considered as a cies. means of improving the efficiency of service We have inherited not only mass unemploy- delivery. ment but also an $8 billion black hole in the Since information technology is an enabling budget forecast, a major shortfall that we have technology, does the minister agree that to address by cutting expenditure much slashing $985 million out of the IT budget further than we understood was necessary will impair public sector efficiency and because you did not come clean with the service delivery, to the disadvantage of Australian people. That is what we have to Australian taxpayers? Is this not simply address. We also find there is $180 billion of cutting off your nose to spite your face? foreign debt, something that you dismissed as Senator SHORT—I find it incredible that being irrelevant. There is a current account the former minister has asked such a question deficit of around $27 billion. Again, you said so early in the life of the new government, it does not matter. but I welcome it. When you see what the Opposition senators interjecting— former government did to efficiency in the Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 119

Australian economy, when it deliberately set the election, so it is not speculative. There- about avoiding taking the hard decisions to fore, can the minister tell me: did the govern- get our nation competitive again and when it ment examine the impact this decision would broke every promise that it gave to the Aus- have before it made it or did it just simply tralian people, you would think it extraordi- think of a figure and slash that figure? Par- nary for this former minister to ask a question ticularly, can he tell me what efficiencies that so far in advance of when he knows he will would have been made will now not proceed? get a decision. What service delivery improvements that The budget will be delivered on 20 August. would have been made will now be junked? It will not be delivered before then. There is What impact on the Australian IT industry a very wide range of issues that need to be will this cut have? In short, did you or did looked at in the course of the budget context. you not consider those things? If you did, can That task has been made much more difficult you table any documents in which you set out because of the absolute deceit of the former those considerations of the impact of these government in the run-up to the election. It cuts on government efficiency in service said that the budget was in surplus. It said delivery as well as the Australian industry? that the forward estimates showed that we had Senator SHORT—I am not sure it is a surpluses in the years ahead. supplementary question, but it is not a bad Right through the election campaign, from fishing trip. I add nothing to my previous the former Prime Minister down, that deceit- answer. The decisions on this and a range of ful government refused to come clean with other issues will be announced in the course the Australian people, to open the books and of the budget. to show the true state of the budget situation Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander of which it knew perfectly well, given that the Affairs information was available to the incoming government two days later. You left Australia Senator TIERNEY—My question is with an $8 billion black hole, a black hole directed to the Minister for Aboriginal and created by your government and reinforced by Torres Strait Islander Affairs. I understand the now Leader of the Opposition. That deceit that the government is making a number of was one of the basic reasons why the Austral- enhancements in the Aboriginal and Torres ian people lost faith in you as a government Strait Islander Affairs portfolio to ensure and why you were thrown out so unceremoni- greater accountability of taxpayers’ money ously at the last election. and to improve the delivery of services to indigenous Australians. Will you explain these For all of those reasons, there is a large enhancements to the chamber? number of decisions that will be looked at. They will all be announced on budget night Senator HERRON—I thank Senator and not before. Any views that you might Tierney for his question. I have issued to the have at this stage are absolutely speculative. ATSIC board general directions to ensure As my leader, Senator Hill, has said, we on greater accountability and improved outcomes. this side of the chamber treat pre-election Opposition senators interjecting— commitments very seriously. We have already made that clear through the Prime Minister. Senator HERRON—You achieved nothing We will be keeping faith with our commit- in your time. I have also proposed amend- ments to provide assistance to those in need ments to the ATSIC act, which will go before in our community, to provide the approach to parliament. government and the environment for govern- Opposition senators interjecting— ment and the private sector to operate in a Senator HERRON—You on that side have way that will restore faith, confidence and nothing to skite about. Hang your heads in hope in the Australian community. shame! Under the general directions that I Senator COOK—I remind the minister that have issued to the board, a special auditor his party promised to make these cuts before will review ATSIC grants, with power to 120 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 refuse grants to organisations that fail to He turned one tap on. That is what you did. comply with accountability requirements. That There were 134 communities which lacked did not occur under the previous government. appropriate sewage disposal systems, and 250 Funding to organisations will continue to flow communities had no electricity. unless there is a breach. If funding is cut to The infant mortality rate in the Aboriginal an organisation in the event of a breach, population is two to three times that of the ATSIC can organise for an alternative organi- non-Aboriginal population. Do I hear the sation to deliver services to clients. A special shouts from that side about what they have auditor will be appointed in the next few achieved? Life expectancy for indigenous weeks. Australians is 16 to 19 years worse than that The amendments to the ATSIC act which for the non-indigenous population. Only two will go before parliament are to allow the out of every five Aboriginal males can expect minister to continue to appoint two commis- to live to my age, whereas three out of four sioners to the ATSIC board and to appoint the of the non-indigenous population can expect chairman. This amendment was proposed to live to my age. because the government should be represented Fifteen Aboriginal children were reported on the ATSIC board, given that approximately the other day as sick and living in Third $1,000 million of taxpayers’ funds are being World conditions on an old rubbish dump expended annually. This amendment will also near Midland in Western Australia. That is allow the chairman to be free of zone com- your legacy. It would be highly irresponsible mitments and will allow him or her to take a of me as minister representing indigenous truly national perspective. people to sweep those facts under the carpet, Senator Bolkus—What are you reading? to turn a blind eye to the problems, or to put them in the too-hard basket, as your minister Senator Cook—You will lose your place. did because you thought there were votes in Senator HERRON—You did not read your it. I am taking a stand on this. I will produce question at all, did you? The proposed amend- results. I am prepared to stand and show you ments will allow a reduction in the number of those results in the period that we are in regional ATSIC councils from a maximum of government. Hang your heads in shame. You 20 to a maximum of 12, which is in line with have nothing to be proud of. (Time expired) the 1995 ATSIC review which recommended Budget Cuts a reduction in the size of regional councils to streamline ATSIC operations and to save $2 Senator KERNOT—My question is direct- million. The proposed amendments will also ed to the Minister representing the Prime give the minister the reserve power to appoint Minister. Is it not true that the growth forecast an administrator to ATSIC. This reserve used by the Treasurer to justify the proposed power would be used only if all other ac- $8 billion budget cut has already been made countability measures have not been adhered redundant by more recent Reserve Bank, ABS to. and business confidence figures which indi- cate stronger growth and a lower deficit? Is After 13 years of Labor neglect, what have it not true that the government is just using they got to show in the communities? I will this out-of-date forecast as a dishonest tell you. psychological big stick to cover up a massive Senator Robert Ray—Read it out. attack on the public sector and more to come? Senator HERRON—I do not have to read Senator Crowley—A good question. it out. You know it as well as I do. The Senator HILL—I think that really is quite indigenous population has been left a terrible an offensive question. To suggest that we legacy. You should be quiet, on that side. would have a deliberate policy to take a big You should be quiet, all of you. There were stick to the public sector is quite offensive. 120 remote Aboriginal communities which Apart from that, it is untrue. It seems that the did not have adequate water supplies. Do you honourable senator is basically questioning remember Senator Richardson going around? Treasury’s own figures. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 121

Senator Kernot—You are using them. it was achieving a growth rate that would eat Senator HILL—Are you saying that we into unemployment when it simply was not should not rely on Treasury figures? We have true. We are committed to and went to the a responsibility to address the projected Australian people on a policy program to deficit, the forecast deficit— improve the level of economic growth so that we could do something about employment. To Senator Bolkus—In an honest way. do that successfully we need to reduce public Senator HILL—In an honest way and on expenditure. We need to reduce public ex- the basis of the best information. The best penditure— information is surely the information the Treasury has provided to us—the information Senator Kernot—You run the risk of that you would not let the Australian people undermining your own strategy. know about during the election. That is the Senator HILL—You have got the old- legacy that we inherit. If we are inheriting a fashioned Australian Democrats solution. Here forecast deficit of $8 billion, we have got to we are, three years into the recovery. You say address it. I suspect that the Democrats’ the only way to tackle unemployment is to approach would be to close the eyes and look further pump prime. It won’t work. The only the other way. The Labor Party’s approach way in this very competitive international would be to increase taxation, because that is economic environment is in fact to reduce what it has always done in the past. public expenditure so that our businesses can Senator Bolkus—Is that right? be internationally competitive.(Time expired) Senator HILL—That is what you have Election of Senator always done in the past. We, being faced with that responsibility, believe that the best Senator BOLKUS—My question is to alternative is to reduce public expenditure. By Senator Vanstone. Can the minister confirm reducing public expenditure, we are able to that the Department of Administrative Ser- take pressure off interest rates, give small vices approached the Attorney-General’s business a chance and give a chance for Department on 28 March this year seeking a increased employment in sustainable jobs in legal opinion on the validity of the election of the longer-term future. So, faced with that a South Australian senator? legacy of Labor, we believe we are approach- ing it and attacking it in the only sensible Senator VANSTONE—No, I can’t. I have policy way. no information on that matter. I will get some information for you and give it to you as soon Senator KERNOT—So are the figures out as I can. of date? Minister, you say that your aim is to reduce public expenditure. Have you given Senator BOLKUS—I have a supplemen- any consideration to the April ANZ Business tary question. As you are seeking that infor- Outlook, which forecasts that a reduction in mation, Senator, can you also find out wheth- public expenditure of $5 billion would lower er the Attorney-General’s Department did in growth by a further one per cent and add fact give the Department of Administrative greatly to unemployment? Don’t your actions Services advice as to whether a senator- have the capacity to jeopardise stronger designate was the holder of an office of profit economic growth, on which you say you are under the crown? If so, can you find out for relying as well? us what the nature of that advice was as well? Senator HILL—Our objective is to im- Senator VANSTONE—I have tried to prove economic growth because only by make it pretty clear, but I will spell it out improving economic growth can we provide again. I am unaware of the matter that you the jobs that we are committed to provide. have raised. It is a matter that the Attorney, There is no doubt about that. One of the other no doubt, has some knowledge of. I will get misleading aspects of the Labor Party when whatever information he is prepared to give it was in government was that it told us that you and I will give it to you as soon as I can. 122 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Budget Deficit macy of the Treasury figures. On 17 April—a couple of weeks ago—Mr Beazley said: Senator FERGUSON—My question is to the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Short. I refer We don’t accept the figures that have been put forward. This notion of an $8 billion hole is largely the minister to the statement made during the a fraud. election campaign by the then Minister for Finance and now Leader of the Opposition, Yet during the election campaign, Mr Beazley Mr Beazley, that ‘We are operating in surplus said: and our projections are for surpluses in the As far as we are concerned, the Treasury estimates future’. Given that the new Treasurer, Mr that we had in connection with the last budget— and they were Treasury estimates—stand for good Costello, announced only days after the and we stand by them. election that there was an $8 billion budget black hole, what can the government say Now that Labor is out of office, the Treasury about its predecessor’s awareness of the real figures apparently are not good enough for situation and Mr Beazley’s credibility? him. The only fraud being perpetrated is by Mr Beazley himself and his Labor col- Senator SHORT—I thank Senator Fergu- leagues.In stark contrast, the coalition govern- son for his very important question. It was ment will ensure that the Australian people obvious throughout the election campaign that will be fully informed on the Common- the Labor Party was deceiving the Australian wealth’s budget position at the beginning of people and nowhere was that more obvious each election campaign period, as we outlined than in respect of the budget situation. As in our proposed charter of budget honesty. Mr Senator Ferguson pointed out in his question, Beazley in the last couple of weeks has on 1 February Mr Beazley, then Minister for rejected this valuable reform initiative, which Finance, said, ‘We are operating in surplus is further evidence of his lack of commitment and our projections are for surpluses in the to open government. future.’ So let there be no doubt about it. Despite That assertion was never once rebutted by Labor’s efforts to conceal the fact, there is an any of the former government ministers $8 million black hole. Equally, there can be during the election campaign. Indeed, the no doubt that the responsibilities for this huge contrary was the case from the Prime Minister deterioration unquestionably rest with the down. Despite that unequivocal assurance, Leader of the Opposition and the previous two days after the election the new Treasurer Labor government. Labor deceived the Aus- was handed figures showing that the budget tralian public during the election. It is inex- would be in deficit for the entire period of the cusable for them now to try to continue that forward estimates. For 1995-96, instead of a deception. surplus of $720 million, we inherited a deficit Aboriginal Flags of $280 million—a deterioration of $1 billion. For 1996-97 the picture was even worse, with Senator BOB COLLINS—My question is what Labor had said would be a surplus of directed to the Minister for Aboriginal and $3.4 billion in fact being revealed two days Torres Strait Islander Affairs. Given that the after the election to be a deficit of $4.9 question of flags played such a central role billion. That is a turnaround of $8.3 billion in yesterday in an otherwise barren speech from the budget bottom line. the Governor-General, and given the categori- cal statements made last year by the now The deceit practised by Labor and Mr Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister Beazley during the campaign was twofold, of that the official recognition of the Aboriginal course. The first was that they pretended that and Torres Strait Islander flags ‘would de- the figures were not available. Secondly, they mean the status of the national flag and divide pretended that the budget was in surplus. Mr rather than unite the nation’, I ask: will your Beazley deceived the Australian public during government move to formally rescind the the election campaign and now he is trying to Keating government’s official recognition of continue that deception by denying the legiti- these flags under section 5 of the Flags Act, Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 123 as proclaimed on July 14 last year, or will money expended, in fact, by ATSIC in rela- your government, and your Prime Minister tion to that. It does not maintain an office in particularly, now accept their proclamation as Geneva. However, it liaises with the United a major act of reconciliation with the Aborigi- Nations through the Centre for Human Rights nal and Torres Strait Islander people? in Geneva and the national office of the Senator HERRON—That is a very good United Nations Information Centre in Sydney. question, Senator Collins. I am surprised that ATSIC liaises with these offices in relation to you were able to find one in relation to obtaining information about international and Aboriginal affairs because there are not many, United Nations forums and meetings which as I said previously. There is one flag, as you concern indigenous issues. In fact, ATSIC has know—an Australian flag. it in its charter that it can do that. As a result of that, it can forward information about Senator Faulkner—What we want is a issues of concern in relation to Aboriginal and very good answer. Torres Strait Islander peoples. Senator HERRON—You are getting it. ATSIC sought and was granted a status as There is one flag, and it is an Australian flag. a non-government organisation, in a consulta- The question of whether that will be rescinded tive way, with the Economic and Social or not has not been determined. When it has Council of the United Nations as an inde- been, I will be the first to tell you. pendent representative body. So it has the Senator Cook—What is your position? authority to do that. The minister, in fact, was Senator Schacht—What is your policy? not required to authorise ATSIC’s application for the status and did not do so. The matter of Senator BOB COLLINS—That is what I ATSIC’s continuing NGO status with this was about to come to, colleagues. I appreciate body is a matter between ATSIC and the the advice of Senator Herron that that matter United Nations. In fact, there was no money will, in fact, be considered by his government expended as such. I would be happy to give and a decision may well be taken on it at you a fuller answer in relation to it but— some future time. Given that understanding, will you, as Minister for Aboriginal and Senator Schacht—Why don’t you? Torres Strait Islander Affairs, give the Senate Senator HERRON—Are you going to give an undertaking that you will resist any at- me an extension of time? I will give you a tempts by your cabinet colleagues to, in fact, fuller answer then. Seeing you have requested rescind that proclamation? it, you can hear the full answer. Senator HERRON—Senator Collins, we Senator Robert Ray—Don’t read it, won the election. Are you aware that we won though. the election? Having said that, I will seek the advice of my government and listen to it Senator HERRON—I would not read it. I assiduously, and I will let you know when would not think of reading it. I will even put that decision has been made. my glasses on so that I cannot read it. In western and eastern Europe, and in both ATSIC: Geneva Office the northern and southern hemispheres, the Senator CHAMARETTE—I ask the board of ATSIC is a representative institution Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait elected by 35 regional councils—of course, Islander Affairs: how much money does you all know this—throughout Australia. The ATSIC spend each year to maintain an office regional councils are themselves elected by in Geneva so that it can liaise with the United the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Nations? Does the minister agree that it is a communities. contradiction in terms that a government- ATSIC believes statutory independence is funded statutory body should be given non- evidenced by its self-regulation and its role as government organisation status at the UN? the initiator and setter of its own goals and Senator HERRON—I thank Senator policies in consultation with the Aboriginal Chamarette for the question. There is no and Torres Strait Islander communities and 124 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 their elected representatives. ATSIC has stage or another. Senator Chamarette, I actual- consistently represented views independent of ly answered your question in my previous government positions at both international and answer to a question from Senator Tierney, so national forums concerning indigenous issues. I will say the same thing again if it is of It also has a substantial independent voice and benefit. input into government policies affecting not Senator Robert Ray—You might not have only Aboriginal people but other members of to read it this time. the Australian community. ATSIC undertakes international activities Senator HERRON—I did not read it last under the provisions of the Aboriginal and time. Senator Chamarette, the feeling is that Torres Strait Islander Commission Act 1989 it is not paternalistic. I have asked the ATSIC as amended in section 7(1) ‘Functions of commissioners to set out the criteria for Commission’ and section 10 ‘Powers of selection of their next chairman. Those cri- Commission’, paragraphs 1 and 5. The ‘Pow- teria will be determined by the commissioners ers of Commission’ stated: themselves. Also, it may well be that one of the present commissioners should be appoint- The Commission has power to do all things that ed. Having said that, I think it is important are necessary or convenient to be done for or in connection with the performance of its function. that there be a direct connection between the government and a body that is spending over ...... $1,000 million of taxpayers’ funds. The powers of the Commission may be exercised within or outside Australia. Senator Bob Collins—That’s you. You are the direct connection. This consultative status is for United Nations purposes only, and the granting of that status Senator HERRON—Yes, but not if it is a has application only with the United Nations totally autonomous body and you will recall system. it has been and still is so up to the present. The present chairman was appointed by the Senator Schacht, I have filled in the time. now opposition and she is still in place. I could have given you a little extra time to ask questions of the government, and you did ABC: Funding not take advantage of it. I was trying to give you a short answer so that you would have Senator SCHACHT—My question is more time to ask questions. directed to the Minister for Communications and the Arts. On 18 January 1996 the coali- Senator CHAMARETTE—I thank the tion released its broadcasting policy entitled minister for his extended answer. I ask again: ‘Better broadcasting’. I ask the minister to is it not also a contradiction in terms for the reconfirm the election promise to the Austral- minister to be supporting the position that ian people contained in that policy document, ATSIC is a non-government organisation on which reads: the basis of its independent status and 35 The coalition will maintain existing levels of elected representatives and, at the same time, Commonwealth funding to the ABC. We will to be proposing to continue the paternalistic continue to support triennial funding which has practice of appointing the chair of ATSIC and allowed the ABC to plan for the future with a one of the commissioners? I ask the minister greater degree of financial certainty. to consider that as a deliberate flouting of the Senator ALSTON—We gave some very principles that he has been espousing lately in careful commitments in our policy document, terms of continuing that practice of appointing and we did it against the background of an members of ATSIC as well as saying that it understanding of the ABC and how it ought is a totally independent body. to operate. We made it clear that there is a Senator HERRON—The supplementary number of ways in which the ABC could question has no connection with the first actually lift its game. I think it now accepts question, but I will be generous this afternoon that there is significant scope for improvement because I thought it would come up at one in the operation of its affairs. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 125

Senator Carr—You did this on the ABC that will emerge from the establishment of a committee, too, didn’t you? $1 billion national heritage trust? Senator ALSTON—Well, I don’t think you Senator ALSTON—I thank Senator Baume contributed much. The fact is we gave those for a question that is long overdue and in commitments against that background. What need of a decent answer. Quite clearly, there you are now asking me to do is, in effect, to are some people out there who have not been take the issue well ahead of budget night, and listening. The fact is that most other countries we are not in the business of saying anything in the developed world went down this track about the budget. I am simply saying that you a decade ago. They have not all done it are the ones who ought to examine your con- because they have had budget problems of the sciences. magnitude that you lot inflicted on the Aus- Senator Bob Collins—How does that sit tralian community. They have done it because with Robert Hill’s answer today? they understand there is a very real benefit to consumers in having a more efficient telecom- Senator ALSTON—If the thrust of that munications company. question is that you are going to say that there are some areas where you cannot save What you have in Australia at the moment money or that somehow there is not a need to is a company that is facing enormous challen- save money, I have made it clear to you that ges. If you look at the measures of its per- the ABC will continue to function in the way formance and productivity, you will find that that it was designed to function, despite the it is sadly wanting. I know that is because the fact that its charter is very nebulous, despite trade union movement and you effectively the fact that it has been running budget provided a veto over a number of the actions deficits. I would not say it has been doing that were needed to be taken, but we have that on the basis of advice it got from you, now reached a point of crisis. Telstra does but the fact is that the ABC itself is in need need to become a lot more efficient, and it of a significant shake up. It knows that, and will become efficient if it is privatised be- those discussions are taking place. cause you will start to get price signals. You will start to have people focusing on the Senator Schacht—Will you maintain the bottom line and wanting to ask the hard funding? questions to ensure that that flows. Senator ALSTON—I have told you that There are very significant consumer benefits we have given a commitment. We take those that will flow from our package. As a result commitments seriously. I do not have any- of the sale of one-third of Telstra, we will thing further to add. then be in a position to deliver a number of Sale of Telstra consumer benefits, not just the safeguards that will remain in legislation in terms of universal Senator MICHAEL BAUME—My ques- service obligations, price caps and the exten- tion is directed to the Minister for Communi- sion of the untimed local call option to cations and the Arts. In this first question to businesses. You well know that all those the minister as a member of the first Howard consumer safeguards are there, so you do not government— have any concerns on that front. Senator Faulkner—It is the second. He What you ought to be concerned about is a just had one. much more efficient telecommunications Senator MICHAEL BAUME—From our industry. If you have the highest local call side. The first serious question, the first charges in the world, if you are about 30 per significant question. I congratulate the cent off the pace in terms of OECD measure- minister on his well-merited appointment and ments of performance, you desperately want ask: would he outline the benefits that will a company that can perform and deliver ben- accrue to the people of Australia from the efits to consumers. That is why the scrutiny proposed one-third sale of Telstra and what of the marketplace will make a very real exactly are the benefits to the environment difference. It will also provide an opportunity 126 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 for Australian citizens to invest directly in the the minister for that answer. What will be the company and, to the extent it performs better damage to Australia in terms of both com- than it should, they will reap that direct munications and the Australian environment benefit and they will get preferential access to if these benefits that are clearly wanted and those shares. requested by the Australian people are to be The usual furphy about foreign ownership blocked by senators representing a clear has been put to rest. There will be an absolute minority of the Australian populace? limit of less than 12 per cent of the company Senator ALSTON—There are benefits to in foreign hands and less than two per cent in two very diverse groups of people, but each the hands of any one strategic investor. We should have an acute interest in Australia’s are absolutely confident that the Australian welfare. Those who endorsed this environ- community will respond in the way they have mental package prior to the election know to privatisations of telcos around the world. that it very much deserves and needs to be That will mean that everyone is a winner implemented, and those who have quibbled from an outfit that has so much to deliver but about this proposal are simply ignoring the has been shackled by your government over very real benefits that accompany such a the years. Telstra employees will get a two privatisation, in terms of benefits to telecom- per cent benefit and that is a major improve- munications consumers. I would have thought ment on their current position. They will have that you would be very interested in seeing a stake in the company. They will have an local call charges come down significantly incentive to produce higher productivity and in seeing the sort of benefits that can returns. flow from being a world-class telecommunica- I was also asked about the environmental tions environment. Telecommunications costs, package, which of course is an historic first. as we all know, are the second highest cost It is the best package that could be put in input after wages and salaries. They are a place for more than 50 years and it involves very significant factor in terms of export, money being invested in the National Heri- productivity and performance and, unless you tage Trust, which will enable $318 million to get those cost down, unless you have a be applied to a national vegetation initiative telecommunications company that is up to to tackle land and water degradation prob- world practice—and not 30 per cent off world lems, $163 million to implement the Murray- practice, as it is now—then of course those— Darling 2001 project and $32 million for a Senator Coates—Don’t give us that. national land and water resources audit to provide the first ever national appraisal of the Senator ALSTON—That is the fact. Lines extent of land and water degradation. There per employee in this country are about 140, will also be $80 million for the implementa- compared with over 300 in many countries in tion of a comprehensive national reserve Europe. (Time expired) system to preserve Australia’s biodiversity, and $100 million for a coast and clean seas Commonwealth Ombudsman initiative to tackle major environmental Senator NEAL—My question is to Senator problems. Hill, Leader of the Government in the Senate So we have the combination of those very and Minister representing the Prime Minister. positive benefits and the fact that we have a Will the minister give a guarantee that the chronic savings problem in the country, a Office of the Commonwealth Ombudsman problem which is identified by people such as will continue to have sufficient resources to Vince FitzGerald on a regular basis. Even pursue its responsibilities, particularly in light your good friend Bernie Fraser knows the of Philippa Smith’s statements where she has problem. We will apply $7 billion to reducing said, ‘I can’t see how we can sustain the government debt. (Time expired) function’? Senator MICHAEL BAUME—Mr Presi- Senator HILL—Yes, we will give that dent, I ask a supplementary question. I thank guarantee. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 127

Senator NEAL—I ask a supplementary it. We have found the way to fund it: sell question. Is this response credible, when the one-third of Telstra and put $1 billion of the government is proposing to reduce the fund- proceeds towards setting up an environment ing of the ombudsman by $2.7 million, being fund which is very badly needed in the approximately 30 per cent of the office’s national interest. If the Australian Democrats present budget over three years, while at the will come to the party and recognise the great same time complaints have increased by 23 opportunity that they now have to be part of per cent in only one year? the biggest and best environment package in Senator HILL—Even the Labor Party is Australia’s history, now is the time to be part having to do better with less at the moment. of that process. Support the sale of Telstra, It is a fact of life that there are significant provide the funding base and let us implement reductions in public expenditure and it has to that policy. We have said that in the mean- be seen across the board. time we will not have the same capacity to build on the existing programs. We said that Environment in the document. You must have read the Senator LEES—My question is to Senator document, Senator, and I am pleased to see Hill, Minister for the Environment. I refer the that. minister to the coalition election policy Senator Kernot—What about existing document called ‘Paying for our Commit- programs? ments’, and in particular to the table entitled Senator HILL—I will get back to existing ‘Environment Total Program Costs’, which programs. If we are to build on the existing says that your environment policy will cost programs, we need to set up a funding base. just $84 million in 1996-97. Does the minister The only way we can do that is through the agree that $84 million spent on the environ- sale of one-third of Telstra. Now is the time ment next year is no $1 billion commitment, to come on board and represent the constitu- as you have been suggesting? Given that the ency that you claim to represent in this place, policy says that this $84 million in 1996-97 instead of moving to block and obstruct the will be funded from the budget and not from sale. any proceeds from any sale of anything, can the minister guarantee that this year’s pro- With regard to existing programs of the grams will continue to be funded in the former government, as you well know and as August budget and that the government will has been publicly said, in the light of the $8 not try to find even more thinly veiled excus- billion hole we have inherited from Mr es for spending very little on the environ- Beazley, all current programs are being ment? reviewed. Senator HILL—I must say that I am Senator LEES—I find that a very interest- pleased that the Democrats have given away ing answer—the only way you will fund the the habit of dorothy dixers to government environment is to sell off a valuable public ministers, too. It is interesting that, now we asset. Surely you agree, though, that talking are here, they have changed the practice. The about this $1 billion is really misleading. honourable senator has hit the nail on the What you are talking about is approximately head. We want to implement a $l billion $135 million per year for five years or—let us environment trust, but we have to raise the put it in perspective—less than one-sixth of funds to do so. The Labor Party would have one per cent of your total budget outlays, less liked to have been able to do so as well, as than one-third of the costs of giving tax Senator Faulkner said this morning. Basically, breaks that will help only the private health Labor endorses our program; they would have insurance industry and less than you proposed liked to have done it. in new spending on defence. Let us look at your priorities. Do you think that the environ- Senator Faulkner—It is our program. ment really is such a low priority that what Senator HILL—You lost, matey; you lost. little extra money you might spend is indeed It has gone. But Labor was not able to fund tied to something—a valuable public asset, as 128 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

I said—and that really what you are looking Senator Cook—What is the answer to the for is an excuse to spend absolutely nothing question? on the environment? Senator VANSTONE—Just hold on, sport, Senator HILL—The thing about the I am coming to it. Keep yourself a bit calm. Australian Democrats is that they never have There was Senator Sherry and then Senator and never will have to raise the money to pay Collins. There must be an awful squabble for public expenditure. Furthermore, if you between Senator Cook and Senator Bolkus. were, with respect, a little more perceptive, you would see a big advantage in this trust The PRESIDENT—Senator Vanstone, fund because it would be outside the scope of please get to the answer. cuts in the future. It would be a separately Senator VANSTONE—I did want to constituted trust. The advocates for the envi- highlight, Mr President, how gracious Senator ronment should see a special opportunity in Cooney was, and I could do so only by what we are seeking to do, a one-off chance pointing out how ungracious Senator Bolkus to set up a fund. I do not know where you was. Senator Cooney, I am sorry to upset you think we are going to find a billion dollars. It but I do not have any information with is amazing. This is an opportunity that should respect to your question. Perhaps there is a not be lost and you should just start talking to plan on the other side to ask me questions your constituency and ask them what they that only the Attorney can give you an im- think. What they will say to you is, ‘We mediate answer to. I will tell you what I will expect you to get on board.’ Take the oppor- do. I will do the same for you as I said I tunity—it is too good to miss—and be part of would do for Senator Bolkus. That is, I will this opportunity to really do something for the speak to the Attorney and I will get an an- Australian environment. swer. Australian Securities Commission Senator COONEY—Thank you for that Senator COONEY—My question is direct- answer, Senator Vanstone. When you are ed to the Minister representing the Attorney- seeking the information from the Attorney, General and Minister for Justice, Senator could you ask him whether he would be Amanda Vanstone. I take this opportunity, prepared to make any advice he had in this Senator Vanstone, to congratulate you on your respect, or any record of this advice, available appointment to the cabinet. I ask the minister: to the Senate? has the Government obtained any advice, Senator VANSTONE—Senator Cooney, written or otherwise, of the likely effect on just as I said to Senator Bolkus, I will get the efficiency with which the Australian what I can. I am obviously obliged to do Securities Commission operates of the pro- whatever I can for any senator that asks a posed cuts in its personnel? question, but I cannot resist saying that with Senator VANSTONE—I thank Senator respect to you, Senator Cooney, there is a Cooney for his question and for his gentle- temptation to work a little bit harder and get manly behaviour in congratulating me—not it a little bit quicker. exhibited, I notice, by Senator Bolkus earlier. Senator Bolkus is probably not feeling very Small Business Summit gentlemanly, because he has been shoved Senator BOSWELL—My question is to down the line a bit. He was here somewhere Senator Parer, representing the Minister for and now he is over there. He has had to have Small Business and Consumer Affairs. I refer added to that insult being a part of the party the minister to the coalition commitment that the people rejected. You are the party the there would be a small business summit people did reject—comprehensively. You within 100 days of the coalition getting into have to have added to that not only shifting government. Can the minister tell the par- from here to there but shifting from some- liament what steps are being taken to imple- where up here to behind Senator Faulkner and ment this promise and how small business Senator Carr. will be involved in that commitment? Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 129

Senator PARER—I would like to thank Labor Party has no interest or understanding Senator Boswell very much for that question. of small business, as you would know, Sena- I think it is most appropriate that, in the first tor Schacht, as it was your portfolio. It never session of the new Howard government, a was and never will be part of the IR club and question should be asked on small business, has consistently been attacked by predatory which is the backbone of industry in Australia unions and, thus, the Labor Party’s ‘no ticket, and the one that can really address the unem- no start’ policy. ployment problems in this country caused by Industrial relations reform, including the you people on the other side. The national repeal of the unfair dismissal provisions and small business summit will be held on Wed- replacement with a system which is fair to nesday, 12 June 1996 in Sydney, within the employers and employees and the abolition of 100 days promised. It will be a working compulsory unionism, as outlined in the meeting of ministers responsible for small Governor-General’s address to the parliament, business from the states and territories and will be a boost not only to the small business representatives of local government, chaired sector but to real job creation throughout by the Commonwealth minister for small Australia. Revitalisation of the small business business, Mr Prosser. Small business will be sector was a major plank of the coalition’s represented and play an important role in the platform at the recent election. We will summit. It will make presentation to ministers honour that commitment to the letter. in the opening session on key issues of concern within the sector. The small business Worksafe Australia representative associations and interested small business owners will be invited to Senator CARR—My question without observe the opening session. notice is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Industrial Relations. The Minister Prosser has already held discus- Sydney Morning Herald of 29 April reports sions with small business groups and consul- that the government acknowledged that tations are progressing in the lead-up to the Worksafe Australia be required to slash its summit. We are consulting. You lot lost budget by one-third, resulting in a loss of up touch. In preparing the agenda for this meet- to half its staff. With 10 Australian workers ing, small businesses and their representative being killed in workplace accidents each organisations were invited to identify issues week, who will now carry out the important which will be addressed at the summit. The health and safety research functions of this key objective of the summit is to discuss the agency? What other measures will this paperwork and compliance burden faced by government implement to ensure that the lives small business and the ways this can be re- of Australian workers are not placed at risk? duced. The summit will focus on issues which Senator ALSTON—Worksafe Australia are cross-jurisdictional in nature or where was identified by the Industry Commission as there is a need for national consistency in the significantly deficient in meeting its own approach to regulation reform. Early reaction objectives. Indeed, it was particularly critical from the states, territories and local govern- of the fact that it was spending significant ment has been very encouraging and the amounts of money on self-promotion and that government believes that it will get results it was not addressing its core activities. We from this summit. In addition, many of the are therefore committed to ensuring that that issues and recommendations which are identi- does happen. In meeting our commitments, fied at the summit will be referred to the we identified something like $5.9 million that small business deregulation task force for could be saved from restructuring Worksafe consideration. Australia. Senator Schacht—Has that been appointed What we have in mind is simply the basis yet? of expert advice from an independent asses- Senator PARER—As the coalition claimed sor, one that will not jeopardise safety but on many occasions over the past years, the will deliver benefits on a more efficient basis. 130 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

It is just a pity that you have not acknow- ner, today relating to promises made in the recent ledged what has been going on in places such federal election campaign. as Worksafe Australia. It is simply a bloated The first question asked today was from work force preoccupied with doing everything Senator Faulkner to Senator Hill and related other than what it was charged with the to a matter of honesty in government. It was responsibility for doing. a very fundamental question. It was a ques- Senator CARR—I wish to ask a supple- tion fundamental to what the opposition’s— mentary question, Mr President. The Sydney sorry, the government’s—point of view is on Morning Herald of 29 April highlighted the the economy. prospect that lives were now at risk as a result Senator Herron—We are the government. of this government’s action. I repeat: what Senator COOK—I still make that mistake, actions will you take to ensure that important but I am overcoming it. I note the shaky start health and safety research functions and other that Senator Hill got off to as Leader of the functions of this body are actually carried out Government in the Senate today, but I do not and that the 10 workers who are killed each put it down to inexperience; I put it down to week in this country could be reduced? the shaky ground on which he has been Senator ALSTON—The Industry Commis- standing. The question by Senator Faulkner sion is in a better position to make those sorts and the question by Senator Kernot later of judgments than the Sydney Morning Her- about the government’s projection of the so- ald. If that is the best evidence you can cite called $8 billion black hole is the shakiest in favour of the proposition that somehow real proposition anyone can imagine. It is tanta- safety and lives are at risk, you will have to mount to the Goebbels technique of the big do a lot better. Quite clearly, we do not want lie. to jeopardise people’s lives. We do not want The so-called black hole is a projection. As to emasculate any body that has a very has been said by many pundits and by the important safety function to perform. government of the day at the time, any eco- What we are doing is restructuring Work- nomic variable which will be routinely report- safe in such a way that it will deliver the ed between now and when the budget is goods that it is supposed to deliver but at a brought down will alter those projections lower cost. That is something that never fundamentally. We have already seen some of appealed to you. You lot were always inter- the economic variables come through, which ested in making sure that all of these people have been a product of the fine economic had maximum work forces, irrespective of management of the previous government. The performance. You were not interested in most recent figure that caught the public productivity or efficiency benefits. The Indus- attention was the low inflation rate that try Commission made it very plain that that Australia had—a figure entirely due to the could be achieved in this instance. I recom- policies set in place by a Labor government. mend that, instead of just reading the news- We know that things such as growth, infla- papers, you really do some hard work and go tion, employment and all of those other back and read some of those serious reports aspects that go to form what are the budget such as the Industry Commission assessment. parameters will change dramatically between Senator Hill—Mr President, I ask that now and when the budget comes down. further questions be placed on the Notice We also know that at this stage of the Paper. budget cycle Treasury is notoriously conser- vative when it puts forward projections. No Election Promises economic writer in Australia is convinced at Senator COOK (Western Australia) (3.04 all that what the government is saying is true p.m.)—by leave—I move: about that alleged so-called deficit. What we That the Senate take note of the answer given by have is the shakiest of figures on the flimsiest the Minister for the Environment (Senator Hill), to of grounds on the remotest of evidence being a question without notice asked by Senator Faulk- used as justification for a slash/burn economic Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 131 policy across the board. We have ministers of clearly on the record, particularly in their the government going on the public record campaign advertising, as saying that the saying to lobby groups and interest groups welfare vote would be kept intact. that what they are proposing to do they admit We have, with the most extraordinary and is not good policy. In fact, Mr Moore said unbelievably grotesque manipulation of that with respect to industry policy recently. language that I have ever heard of, cuts in the He said, ‘What we are proposing to do will employment area. While the then opposition, not be good policy but we nonetheless need the present government, claimed that unem- to make these cuts.’ He then trotted out this ployment was a key priority, we now have hoary old chestnut of the so-called black hole. projections of cuts to the employment pro- The first thing that needs to be said about grams which would have helped Australians this is that that is not true. It is supposition to take worthwhile jobs in the workplace. and speculation which everyone knows will All of those cuts are being projected by this change. The second thing that ought to be government so quickly after assuming power said is that it is indeed a derogation of the and so hard on the heels of a promise by their government’s position in the election cam- leader that this would not be the case. So the paign. Towards the end of the election cam- question asked by Senator Faulkner, a ques- paign honourable senators in this place will tion of a character similar to that asked by remember at a press conference that the now Senator Kernot— Prime Minister, then Leader of the Opposi- tion, John Howard, was asked an extraordi- Senator Hill—I raise a point of order. It is narily pertinent question by one of the jour- a question of etiquette more than anything nalists. He was asked whether he would still else. The former minister might not appreciate deliver on his election promises if the deficit that we gave leave for this debate because of that he believed at that point did exist in the an arrangement at the whips’ meeting this budget or whether he would weasel out of morning that time for taking note would be those election promises. allowed notwithstanding the fact that the opposition has not permitted us to have Mr Howard was forthright in his answer, sessional orders for this session. It was cer- and we ought to remember what that answer tainly implied if not made explicit that this was because this opposition will be making it arrangement would be in the terms of the public at every possible opportunity. When previous order. Therefore, Senator Cook asked whether, if the deficit were real, he would get five minutes. would weasel out he said no, he would deliver on his policies and on his promises— Senator Chris Evans—There certainly was yes, yes, yes, he would deliver. Now we see a discussion at the whips’ meeting. I indicated a major campaign of background briefing, of at the time that we would be pursuing the leaks, of innuendo and of on the record question of taking note and seeking leave. I comments by government ministers that many also indicated that we would not be looking of the undertakings and programs that were to extending it beyond the customary arrange- declared sacrosanct by the then opposition ment but there was no strict agreement about during the election campaign will now be cut. times. Senator Cook would probably be We have had allegations and stories of cuts operating under the existing standing orders, in the ABC. We have had stories of cuts in which allow him half an hour. I indicated that industry policy. We have had massive cuts to we would try to run along a pattern similar to the number of staff in the public sector. We the past practice. I am sure that Senator Cook have had Senator Newman saying that every will enter into the spirit of that arrangement. welfare program is on the table for cuts. We Senator COOK—As this chamber knows, know that education funding is under review I am a reasonable person and I am prepared and is likely to be cut. We know that in the to abide by that arrangement. There is no health area the razor is out and being stropped clock to guide me so I am not sure how much to find cuts there when the coalition was time I have taken. 132 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—You have A memo from Mr Blount last November 24 minutes and 19 seconds left of the half contained the horrific forecast that unless hour. You are entitled to half an hour but I there were significant efficiencies—significant am sure you heard the comments made about cuts in employment, for example—there the discussion at the whips’ meeting and what would be a $1 billion blow-out in Telstra’s the understanding was. negative cash flow. We did not realise at the Senator COOK—Yes, and, as I said, as a time that the cash flow was already projected reasonable person I will abide by the informal to be half a billion dollars in deficit compared arrangement. The nub of my remarks is with the very significant positive cash flow honesty in government. Mr Howard made that the year before. his long suit before the election. He promised We have seen employment in Telstra blow a new honesty. He then said to a journalist out to something like 96,000 as against during the election campaign that his party 60,000, a level competitive with comparable would not renege on their election promises overseas organisations and a level which, I if the budget did not show the figures that the understand, is some kind of target. That government of the day said it showed. indicates present over-employment of some- Now we have this idea of a black hole, thing like 30,000 people. which no one believes in, being used as an excuse to slash and burn programs and ser- Under the previous government there was vices across the board. It brings into question a massive mishandling of Telstra. We have all of the promises that Mr Howard made. seen in Senate committee hearings an arro- That is the fundamental issue here. gance by senior Telstra officials in refusing to deal properly with senators’ questions. Quite No answer was given at question time today frankly, the previous government was only that would assure any Australian that Mr too happy to see that take place. There was Howard will abide by his election promises. no serious attempt by the previous govern- He has made his bed; he will have to lie in it. ment to make Telstra accountable either to Question resolved in the affirmative. itself or, in particular—this is why it affects this Senate—to the Senate committees inquir- Sale of Telstra ing into the expenditure of Australian tax- payers’ money. Those opposite may well say, Senator MICHAEL BAUME (New South ‘Ah, but Telstra does not spend taxpayers’ Wales) (3.13 p.m.)—by leave—I move: money’. It simply happens to have massive That the Senate take note of the answer given by guarantees; it has massive contingent liabili- the Minister for Communications and the Arts ties, which it was very reluctant to come (Senator Alston), to a question without notice asked clean about before the Senate committees. by Senator Michael Baume today, relating to the proposed partial privatisation of Telstra. Telstra was mishandled and mismanaged by The answer given by the minister was very the previous government, so there is a clear, heartening in the sense that he stressed that evident need for greater efficiency. Most the government’s policy was to do what it senators on most sides of this chamber would could, dependent on the support of this be well aware of the fact that in many instan- chamber, to improve the efficiency of Telstra ces people with quite proper complaints by privatising it to the extent of one-third, against Telstra have had a disgraceful re- bringing to it a sense of commercial reality sponse from Telstra. There has been a level which, under the previous government, ap- of legal deviousness which is simply unac- peared to be fast disappearing. We have seen ceptable. Apparently this has been motivated in Austel reports in recent times a continuing not by decency or fairness but by totally non- failure by Telstra to meet the obligations and commercial attempts to protect backsides. requirements of service that Austel has set. People have made mistakes and no-one wants There have been disappointing response times to admit it. In a typical bureaucratic way, the to complaints and matters of that nature. motive is to protect the backside rather than Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 133 face up to the commercial reality that they year, the total revenue for 1995-96 will be have done damage to Australians. over $15 billion. I am overjoyed to hear that the minister, Let us look at Telstra’s profit before tax. Senator Alston, is keen to ensure that Telstra What an extraordinary figure this is—and becomes much more aware of commercial Senator Baume complains that the company reality, that it becomes much more motivated is not performing. In 1994-95 there was a by commercial decisions and that it becomes before tax profit of $2.4 billion. The half determined to provide a better service to yearly figure for the present financial year is Australians at cheaper rates. Privatisation of $1.8 billion. That shows an increase on last one-third of Telstra is an effective way of year’s profit before tax. Last financial year seeking to ensure that it do so. That is what there was a $1,700 million profit after tax. that element of the government’s policy is all For the six months of this financial year, there about. I commend the minister for his con- is an after tax profit of $1,200 million. Again, tinuing determination to proceed in that way. that is a significant increase. Last year there Senator SCHACHT (South Australia) was a dividend to the taxpayers of Australia (3.18 p.m.)—I was not going to speak on of $944 million. For the first half of this year, Senator Baume’s motion but, after hearing his that figure is $686 million. Again, if that five-minute contribution and his description figure is duplicated for the rest of the year, of Telstra, I feel that, for the public record, there will be an increase in the amount of certain matters ought to be addressed. He has dividend to the Australian people. described the performance of a company that What about creating investment in Austral- bears no relationship to the performance of ia? Last financial year this company spent Telstra in recent years in Australia. $3.2 billion. Anyone who knows anything It is odd that Senator Baume would attempt about Telstra will know that, overwhelmingly, to ruin and downplay the reputation of the that was spent in buying services and pro- company which his government is trying to ducts from the small business sector, helping sell one-third of, a company for which it is the small business sector grow. Senator hoping to get the best possible price. If Baume has bagged Telstra for not performing. anyone in the marketplace thinking of buying If Telstra did not exist, small business would Telstra listened to the remarks of Senator not get that sort of assistance. Baume, they would most certainly discount Telstra paid income tax of $649 million, the price of $8 billion. In a very irresponsible separate from its dividend in 1994-95, to the way, he described this company as basically Australian Taxation Office, which goes into being hopeless, debt ridden, et cetera. That is revenue for the Australian people. Telstra’s not the record of this company. This com- total payments to the government in 1994-95 pany, which is owned by the taxpayers of came to $2.7 billion. This government wants Australia, last year employed full-time ap- to sell one-third of Telstra for $8 billion, yet proximately 75,000 people. in one year the Australian government got The new government is complaining about $2.7 million in revenue. If part of Telstra the lack of job opportunities in Australia and were privatised, the government would still says it is going to do something about that. It get income tax. But overall Telstra is per- appears from Senator Baume’s remarks that, forming very well; it is returning substantial without rhyme or reason, the government dividends. wants to dismiss a lot of workers from I will finish my remarks on a point that Telstra. They would then go on to the unem- Senator Baume only alluded to. Once you sell ployment list. There is an inconsistency there. a third of Telstra, it will not be long before Let us look at the financial performance of you sell the lot. That is quite clear. At press Telstra. In 1994-95 it had a revenue of $14 conferences during the election campaign, the billion. The half-yearly report for this year current Prime Minister (Mr Howard) could indicates a revenue of $7.6 billion. If that not rule out the fact that, in the end, the amount is duplicated in the second half of the whole of Telstra would be sold. 134 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

So the $2.7 billion total payments to the Aboriginal affairs, who is now no longer a state after tax is taken out, or about $2 billion member of the House of Representatives, back to the federal government, would disap- chose to ignore it as well. pear. In four years we would be earning more Time and time again I raised this with him, than you would get for a third of the sale. I but he took not one iota of notice. He would do not know what you would try to get for not look into that issue of accountability, and the full sale, but it would probably be the as a result the money was wasted around biggest float this country has ever seen. those communities and not necessarily within Whether you would ever raise $16 billion to those communities. That is what happened. $20 billion out of Australia—unless you sold Mr Tickner refused to have anything to do a majority overseas to raise that sort of with an inquiry. So things went on. Senator money—it is hard to believe. Of course you Herron has had to take immediate action to would not be game to tell the Australian look into what has been happening. I con- people that you put Telstra into foreign hands. gratulate him for that. The remarks of Senator Baume have been quite damaging to the performance of a Madam Deputy President, you may remem- company owned by the Australia people. This ber that in August 1993, I moved for an is one reason why we will not have a bar of inquiry into the accountability of ATSIC and the hypocrisy of the government in trying to ATSIC related bodies. I had not convinced destroy Telstra, which performs a great public the government of course, but I had con- service to the Australian people. vinced the Democrats and their leader, Sena- tor Kernot, to support me on such a move. Question resolved in the affirmative. The issue was supposed to be debated on a Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Thursday. It was the same day that the book Affairs about women in parliament was released. With the amount of business that went on that Senator PANIZZA (Western Australia) day, we did not get to my motion. By the (3.24 p.m.)—by leave—I move: following Tuesday, the Democrats, who That the Senate take note of the answer given by cannot hold the line for more than 24 hours, the Minister for Aboriginal and Torres Strait retracted their support. That was nearly three Islander Affairs (Senator Herron), to a question without notice asked by Senator Tierney today, years ago. That inquiry would have saved a relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander lot of time for Senator Herron now. No one Commission. will know what could have been done if that I am glad that Senator Herron spelt out his inquiry had been undertaken. agenda for returning accountability to ATSIC. I think I know what could have been done. For quite a while at least $2 billion worth of There would be far more accountability now government funding per year has been going than there was then. Of course, a lot of to ATSIC and ATSIC related bodies. For at money would have been saved that should least three years that I know of, there has have been going to the right causes—health, been a total lack of accountability in ATSIC. housing and education. I believe that the I have expressed that concern in this chamber former government should stand condemned time and time again. For some reason— for refusing to look at something that was perhaps it was political correctness—the obvious. I believe that the former minister, Mr former government chose to ignore this lack Tickner, made a grave error. I will not con- of accountability time and time again. demn him now because he has got enough to When these matters were raised in the worry about. He himself will know that he Senate, by the Australia media and by Abo- made a mistake. rigines who were missing out on $2 billion of The Democrats have a motto—I do not like Australian taxes which were supposedly going to hear it in this chamber, but I will repeat it into causes such as health, housing and just once, Senator Evans. It is: keep the education, the former government completely bastards honest. What did they do? They let ignored the situation. The former minister for me down at the last minute and the lack of Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 135 accountability continued for a further 2½ I draw the attention of the Senate to the years, almost three years. I congratulate public document of 18 January, Better broad- Senator Herron for having the courage to casting. All through the document the coali- immediately order an inquiry into accounta- tion committed itself to maintaining all the bility. existing programs and services of the ABC Question resolved in the affirmative. whether it was television or radio, whether it was in the capital cities or regional Australia, ABC: Funding whether it was the orchestras or other artistic Senator SCHACHT (South Australia)(3.29 ventures successfully conducted by the ABC. p.m.)—by leave—I move: Now it is quite clear that all of that is at risk, That the Senate take note of the answer given by not just from the two per cent efficiency the Minister for Communications and the Arts cut—$10 million—but from other areas. (Senator Alston), to a question without notice asked by Senator Schacht today, relating to funding for What I think would worry many Australians the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. is that some people in this coalition govern- Today in question time, I clearly asked ment will not be able to resist the temptation Senator Alston a question based on the to try to run a political test across the pro- coalition’s policy speech of 18 January gramming of the ABC; those programs that entitled ‘Better broadcasting’. In unequivocal from time to time put views and enable terms, the coalition, now the government, said people to put views that the coalition would that it would maintain existing levels of disagree with would be under threat. Commonwealth funding to the ABC. This move would very much equate with The policy speech stated: what happened after 1975 when the Fraser We will continue to support triennial funding which coalition government was elected and Sir has allowed the ABC to plan for the future with a greater degree of financial certainty. Henry Bland was appointed chair of the ABC with the task of cutting, slashing and burning Today in question time Senator Alston used the funding of the ABC and turning it around every null and verbal device to get around to be less antagonistic in the perception of the saying yes or no to that commitment. He then coalition. We saw the ABC go into suggested that there were inefficiencies in the several years of turmoil in programming, ABC and that those inefficiencies would funding and very low morale. One of the provide savings, et cetera, but he would not most important communication institutions in actually reconfirm the commitment to con- Australia that provides a service right across tinuing the triennial funding and at the end Australia to areas that the commercial broad- waffled off on something about the budget casting services do not reach, cannot reach or being considered. do not wish to reach was affected very badly. Quite clearly, the supporters in the broad Australian community of the ABC now have It appears—and I qualify that it appears— it on record that the funding for the ABC is that Senator Alston may be starting down that under threat across the board. The suggestion same road because he would not back his own that has been speculated in the press that a promise from the election campaign that the two per cent efficiency dividend will be funding would be maintained. Back in 1975 applied this year to training and funding, Malcolm Fraser promised not to cut the which would save about $10 million, is now funding to the ABC but when he got into the minimum available. Senator Alston would government he did things quite differently. I not even commit himself to that figure being call on the supporters of the ABC, those the maximum they would take out of the millions of Australians right across this ABC. He went on to talk about general country, to be aware that the institution on inefficiencies in the ABC and most of us can which they rely heavily for their information take that as a code of words to say, ‘This and for a diversity of views is now going to means we can slash and burn in areas of the be under a funding threat from this govern- ABC.’ ment because Senator Alston today in this 136 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 chamber would not reconfirm a very simple improve the design and layout of bills, which commitment he gave on 18 January. will also impact on the design and layout of On behalf of the opposition, I can assure acts. the Australian people that we will fight this The result of this project is a new format, ABC funding issue through this chamber and which has been adopted by the office for in the community leading up to the next future bills. The main features of the new budget. If the coalition is stupid enough to cut format are these: the funds, we will fight afterwards in the Australian community to defend the ABC There is a substantial increase in the funding. (Time expired) amount of ‘white space’ on each page. This makes the pages look less forbidding, and Question resolved in the affirmative. this in turn contributes to the reader’s MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS confidence in dealing with the text. New Format for Bills and Acts Running headers are used on the top out- side corner of each page. The inclusion of Senator VANSTONE (South Australia— section numbers in the running headers will Minister for Employment, Education, Training make searching for particular provisions and Youth Affairs)—I seek leave to make a easier. The inclusion of chapter, part and statement on behalf of the Attorney-General division headings in the running headers relating to the new format for bills and acts will make it easier for readers to interpret and to move to take note of the statement. individual provisions in context. Leave granted. Section and subsection numbers are separat- Senator VANSTONE—The format current- ed out from the text to make searching for ly in use for bills introduced into this parlia- particular provisions easier. ment has evolved gradually since 1901. It is only in the last 10 years or so, however, that Vertical spacing, variable font sizes and attention has been paid to the effect on different margins give visual clues to the readers of the format in which legislation is hierarchical relationships between different set out. This has happened in the context of elements of the text. a growing community expectation that legisla- The text of bills will no longer be right- tion that affects people ought to be accessible justified. The use of a ‘ragged’ right-hand to those people. margin makes text easier to read because it The accessibility of legislation has several means that the spacing between words is aspects. First, of course, the text of the legis- the same in each line rather than varied, to lation needs to be comprehensible to its ensure a straight right-hand margin. intended audience. As well, legislation needs All bills will contain a table of contents. to be physically accessible to its intended Among other things, the table will show all audience—that is, people need access to up- acts amended or repealed by the bill. to-date versions of current legislation, whether in the form of reprints of acts or electronic The first page of a bill will now be a cover databases containing consolidated legislation. page including the long title. The table of contents will start on the inside cover page. For those who still use printed copies of legislation, which includes members of this Several bills were introduced in the last parliament, the page design and layout of parliament in experimental formats. Now that legislation also affect its accessibility. Docu- the new format is settled, it will be used for ment design is now recognised as a matter almost all bills introduced from now on. The which can have a significant impact on the new format will also be adopted for reprints comprehensibility of documents and on how of existing acts. There will be a longer transi- effectively documents communicate informa- tional period for reprints because it will take tion. With this in mind, the Office of Parlia- some time to convert all existing electronic mentary Counsel has undertaken a project to versions of acts into the new formats. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 137

I would like to thank a number of people from changes recommended to the previous who advised the Office of Parliamentary government by the Office of Parliamentary Counsel during the development of the new Counsel, following very much the experience formats. These include: people had in respect of the corporations and the clerks of both houses of this parliament, tax laws simplification initiatives undertaken by Labor. That was an important experience the tax law improvement project and the for those involved in the process. corporations law simplification unit, in particular the communications experts Learning from that experience, the previous working with each of those groups, government announced in the Access to justice statement that we would pursue the the Australian Government Publishing approach taken in the corporate law simplifi- Service, and cation area to a broader perspective. That was the Communication Research Institute of announced in the Justice Statement a couple Australia. of years ago. It is probably worth referring to Those of us who are familiar with the a commitment made there. In that statement, current forms of Commonwealth legislation the government said: will need some time to get used to the new Clear and unambiguous legislation will make laws formats. However, I am confident that these easier to understand and easier to access. Careful formats represent a genuine contribution to drafting of acts of parliament and delegated legisla- tion is required to ensure easy access. the accessibility of Commonwealth legislation. I move: I will not read everything that was said in that, but the pertinent sentence reads That the Senate take note of the document. ‘An improved design and layout of Common- Senator BOLKUS (South Australia) (3.40 wealth bills and acts will be introduced.’ That p.m.)—I would like to welcome the statement is what we have today. It is good to see it from the Minister for Employment, Education, happening. Of course, we welcome this Training and Youth Affairs (Senator Van- ministerial statement. stone). I am pleased to see that the govern- As I said to Senator Vanstone, in a little ment is picking up some of the ideas of the while I am sure that the current government old government. We welcome this initiative will be wishing that it maintained all of our announced by Senator Vanstone on behalf of ideas, not most of them. Recognising the the Attorney-General (Mr Williams). important aspect of this and the need for Senator Vanstone—We never discard the initiatives like this to make parliament laws good, just the bad. and people’s rights more accessible, we welcome this initiative. Senator BOLKUS—In a couple of years Question resolved in the affirmative. time you will be wishing you maintained all our policies, not just some of them. We DOCUMENTS welcome this initiative. In fact, we were Australian-Lebanese Support Committee driving it. I would like to place on record of Lebanon recognition of the work that the former The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I present a Attorney-General, Michael Lavarch, and letter received from the Australian Lebanese former Minister for Justice, Duncan Kerr, did Support Committee of Lebanon. in this area in an endeavour to ensure that it would be easier for people to use bills and COMMITTEES acts and, as a consequence, ensure greater Community Affairs Legislation knowledge, understanding and accessibility to Committee the law. Senator WEST (New South Wales)—I The history of these changes announced present additional information received by the today are such that they were in an advanced Community Affairs Legislation Committee in state of preparation under the previous gov- response to the 1995-96 additional estimates ernment. In fact, the genesis of them was hearings. 138 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

ORDER OF BUSINESS couple of times and have actually seen the start-up of the casino, although it was not in Motion (by Senator Kemp)—by leave— full operation when the committee was there. agreed to: I do point out that the casino’s gross profit That— for the year 1 July 1994 to 30 June 1995 was (a) consideration of government documents be $153,744,767.70, which was rather a remark- extended by 30 minutes this day; and able amount. Although I do not have the (b) at the conclusion of the consideration of figures before me, I suspect that—although it government documents tabled today, general busi- is for that entire financial year—the casino ness orders of the day relating to documents had not started to operate until some time presented by the President on 30 April 1996 shall through that year. I also want to point out that be called on. the licence fee from that profit was $12,299,000-odd and that the community DOCUMENTS benefit fee was $1,537,000-odd. I want to draw the attention of the government to those Christmas Island: Casino fees, if it has not already been attracted to Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queensland) them. My understanding—and it will be (3.49 p.m.)—I move: confirmed when I have a glance at the Commonwealth Grants Commission report—is That the Senate take note of the document. that most of that money goes to the Christmas I note that in the documents presented today Island community. there is a Commonwealth Grants Commission The Christmas Island community is one report on the Christmas Island inquiry, which, which has received an enormous contribution unfortunately, I have not seen. I am now from the taxpayers of Australia over recent trying to get a copy of it, but I think time is years—a contribution that some people living going to beat me. in less fortunate parts of Australia might The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator, you query. They may think that the Christmas could seek leave of the Senate to have it Island community is being treated much more reinstated if you wished. favourably than many people in regional Australia. Senator IAN MACDONALD—I was going to comment that that is what I might I simply rose to draw those figures to the have to do. What I really want to say on the government’s attention and to suggest that if document before us at the present time will be those amounts are going to the Christmas qualified by whatever that Grants Commission Island community the matter should be looked report says. at carefully. The Australian taxpayers’ contri- bution to that community should also be In speaking to the report on the Casino carefully considered now that the amount of Surveillance Authority and casino controller revenue from that casino has been determined, for the territory of Christmas Island, I simply as is indicated by the annual report currently wanted to draw the attention of the Senate before us. and the government to the revenue from the casino on Christmas Island. I have an interest Question resolved in the affirmative. in this matter— Christmas Island: Commonwealth Grants Senator Panizza—Financial? Commission Report Senator IAN MACDONALD—Unfortun- Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queensland) ately, no. I have an interest as a former (3.54 p.m.)—I move: member of the Joint Committee on the Na- That the Senate take note of the document. tional Capital and External Territories, which dealt with Australia’s territories. In that I seek leave to continue my remarks later. capacity, I have been to Christmas Island a Leave granted; debate adjourned. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 139

COMMITTEES A very large number of sensational claims were made by media outlets. Many unfounded Environment, Recreation, allegations and malicious rumours were made Communications and the Arts References against persons prominent in soccer. They Committee became a subject of public vilification and in Report my judgment they had no effective means of Senator CARR (Victoria) (3.55 p.m.)—I redress. I think it is important for senators to move: not confuse public interest with partisan political comment. There seems to me an That the Senate take note of the report. appropriate place for partisan political com- I did not intend to say a great deal about this ment, especially in here, but it is not necessa- matter. This report is one which I believe will rily the basis on which we launch vendettas be forgotten quickly; however, matters were against individuals in the soccer community canvassed by this committee that ought not be or participate in a partisan way in the feuds forgotten quite so quickly. that are occurring within the soccer fraternity. The Senate will recall that this was a David Hill, the Australian Soccer Federation committee of inquiry undertaken by the Chairman, made the position very clear. He Senate Environment, Recreation, Communica- indicated very early in the piece, in April tions and the Arts References Committee into 1995, that ‘mud sticks in these things’. He allegations made concerning the administra- indicated that you have a whole series of tion of Australian soccer. In the first instance people who have an axe to grind and have a you have to ask yourself, ‘What has that got version of events. He stated: to do with the Australian Senate?’ Certainly, . . . I do not think that constitutes grounds for a point that occurred to me very early in the sacking a national coach. piece was that it did not seem to have a great He went on: deal to do with the operations of the Austral- As well as making decisions in the best interests of ian Senate. soccer— Issues were raised by a number of people the committee would— about the way in which soccer was adminis- have to have . . . regard for the rights of individuals tered in this country. This was done using the who...have been wronged in this... media and through the Stewart inquiry. He indicated that we have to also take deci- Changes have been made to the administra- sions based on the best interests of soccer tion of soccer, but not as a result of the itself. He said: proceedings of this committee. In fact, this . . . there are people who have appeared before this inquiry, in the judgment of Labor Party Committee who have . . . repeated some rumour senators who participated in it, can claim little they are familiar with. The people who have been credit for the changes that have taken place in branded have not been charged with any offence soccer. and have not had the opportunity to say anything. As members of the committee, we indicated My concern with this matter related specifi- from April 1995 that we felt the committee cally to the question of civil liberties. It seems should be wound up. Unfortunately, that to me—it seemed to me when we were advice was ignored. We saw an abuse of engaged in this exercise—that one of our natural justice which, in my judgment, went prime functions as senators has to be to very much to the heart of our responsibilities protect the civil liberties of Australians. Some as senators to protect the rights of Australian 79 citizens were adversely named in the citizens. committee’s proceedings and there were very few opportunities for those named persons to I know it will be said that this committee state their position and clear their names. provided an opportunity for people wronged This, in my judgment, was a very clear case to clear the air and that was often said. I of where sport and politics do not mix. would put to the Senate that none of us can be so naive as to believe that witnesses do not 140 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 incur expenses in retaining barristers and involved in. It is particularly insidious to solicitors who have to advise them on the suggest, as this report does, that somehow or evidence that is being presented. Witnesses another there was a potential for conflict of incurred considerable expense in giving interest. Every day of the week all of us face evidence to the committee and had great the potential for conflict of interest. The real stress placed upon them which was not issue in terms of public policy and public attended to through this committee. Many behaviour is whether action is actually taken grave charges were laid against them and not which is in conflict of interest with our all people are able to respond adequately in responsibilities as public figures. Surely that a committee format. They are not lawyers and equally applies to national coaches at soccer are not able to have lawyers speak for them. clubs. It seems to be inappropriate and just The committee system is not a court of law. wrong to use the Senate to attack individual This is a simple proposition which so many soccer players in this way. senators opposite failed to understand through We have to ask ourselves why people do this process. this sort of thing. It seems to me to be a In terms of specific findings there was no partisan political effort involving a dispute evidence found that Anthony Labbozzetta had within the soccer community. It does not even done any wrong regarding the Okon transfer have any implications in a party political matter. There was no evidence presented to sense and one has to ask what sort of morality suggest that charges were found against is at stake here. As senators we can all have individuals named. In particular, there was no a go at one another in the public domain and evidence found against Tom Sermanni, who it is part of our job to strongly advocate views had been very badly wronged through the and defend our constituents and the interests process of public vilification. It is important of our parties as we see them. It is wrong to to highlight that Tom Sermanni was a highly involve people in the soccer industry in this respected soccer coach. In the past he acted way without the capacity to reply. as manager for a number of soccer players, I do not think the Senate was well served most notably Ned Zelic whom he had man- by this committee. The majority report clearly aged for many years well before his departure has not demonstrated that there was a proper to Europe. Mr Sermanni claimed, correctly, use of the Senate’s time in this inquiry. In the that he was frequently approached by young end this soccer inquiry has produced the players concerned about their future. He had result that this committee is in the position of provided advice to a number of them without having even less credibility than the Stewart consideration of remuneration. He had been report itself. manager to a number of players and in one or two cases had advised or assisted players in Senator BOLKUS (South Australia) (4.05 obtaining trials overseas. There was no evi- p.m.)—I wish to speak in respect of this dence of wrongdoing produced before this report and reflect on where this debate was committee, yet Tom Sermanni’s name was one year ago and where this Senate committee bandied about and his public reputation was has in fact taken it. About a year ago the put at risk as a result of some people within national coaches, Eddie Thomson and Les the soccer community playing politics. Scheinflug, administrators like Basil Scarsella and Tony Labbozzetta and players were all It seems to me that this is an inappropriate embroiled in a very public debate on the use of the Senate and it was totally wrong for future of soccer. Mr Sermanni to be subjected to this sort of As Senator Carr quite rightly said, that abuse. Equally, in regard to the allegations debate should have been left in the soccer against Mr Ron Smith, that he had trafficked fraternity. The fact that it was brought into in players, again no evidence was presented this place raises issues that we should not to suggest that he had done anything wrong. only reflect on retrospectively, but issues of On balance we have to ask ourselves what concern in terms of how the Senate committee sort of actions this Senate should properly be process needs to be approached in the future. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 141

People were smeared at the time. The rules are there against hearsay evidence? Australian Soccer Federation itself went What about so-and-so, whose son could not through its internal process and, on reflection, make the team because his talent was not the Stewart report—which the federation good enough? What right does he have to commissioned—was one which it and Stewart make allegations against me and not have should have taken greater care in approaching them tested in the way that maybe courts and putting together. Some people were tackle these matters? smeared and have had to live with the stigma. There was real confusion, as you would Last Sunday I was at a game and watched my imagine that people not involved in our team, West Adelaide, lose to Marconi and it process would find themselves in, and there was quite obvious that the history of all this was real concern as to the state of rights of was something that the game still had to people appearing before committees such as grapple and contend with. this. I think there is a lesson that we have to Before I came into politics I was involved learn here, and hopefully it is one that the as an administrator for about 10 years on a Senate can take on. We need to spend some league football club in South Australia and time developing rules that govern people’s for almost three years I was involved in the rights when they appear before parliamentary West Adelaide Soccer Club in South Austral- committees: the rights of individuals, the ia. There is nothing more certain in life than rights to be represented, the rules of evidence internal squabbles in sporting associations and and the rights to legal assistance. clubs. Squabbles happen everywhere; they Some of the people we are talking about happen in cricket, Aussie rules, rugby—as we here are not and were not rich, but they could see in the courts—and in all codes. You often have found themselves, and some have found find people who want to knife someone else. themselves, in a situation where they would The play The club written by David William- have had to commission and had commis- son was not just about sport. It was about sioned lawyers to represent them, to defend organisations, politics and the fact that you themselves on allegations which, in the cannot divorce one from the other. normal course of events, would have been I was concerned then as to the processes, consigned to the dustbin of selection process- and I still am concerned as to the processes es. So we really do need to focus on the rules that our parliamentary committees go into. At of this place as they apply to individual the time, whether it was the Hill-Negus group citizens in our society, and I think that is one who were coming in to ‘clean-up the game’ lesson that we should take on from here. or our national coaches or administrators, they One year later, soccer continues to grow. were all lost as to how to handle the process. David Hill is at the head. Of course, he is They were to appear before the Senate com- having teething problems and administrative mittee. They all had their particular side of problems, as you would imagine anyone the story, but none of them really was aware would have. of the fact that when called they were expect- Senator Abetz—Ringing ALP endorsement. ed to be here. Senator BOLKUS—I have had discussions They kept on saying things to me, and it with David and, in particular, George Negus came from all sides. It came from, as I say, consistently for a long time. Our interest in those who wanted to push the new broom and the game is one to see the game improved. those who wanted to defend the old systems. Eddie Thomson and Les Scheinflug, together It came from the stakeholders; it came from with Raul Blanco, are developing a very the clubs; it came from the national adminis- strong profile for Australian soccer interna- tration; and it came from the reform group. tionally. It is curious to note that, in beating This is what they kept asking: do we have a my team the other night, Marconi is at the top right to hear all the evidence against us? of the league and is going to be fighting out What sort of right to representation do we the finals. It is also interesting to note that have? What rules of evidence are there? What over the last 12 months the state of soccer in 142 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

New South Wales has improved enormously, in their endeavours, and they succeeded and now three of the top six clubs in the despite the efforts of some Labor senators. national competition are from New South I should mention to Labor senators that at Wales. a recent function Mr Neville Wran, the president, commended this second report as I think in soccer we have in Australia an being outstanding. He congratulated me for asset which is not and has not been appreciat- my role in it and said that it was an enormous ed sufficiently. It is a great sport. It attracts help in fixing up soccer. Sometimes I just young people and both male and female wonder what the motives are of some of the participants. It has more players than any people opposite. I acknowledge, and always other sport in this country. Okay, it has been have, that in every Senate committee there built on the back of migrants from Britain, must be appropriate recognition of individual Ireland, Scotland, all parts of Europe and, in rights. In fact, this committee proceeded with latter days, from Asia. It is a game that is great constraints on it and performed, I growing in popularity, as is witnessed by the believe, responsibly in recognising those audience of soccer programs on both SBS and matters. In fact, I will quote from the report. the ABC. I am looking forward to the day, It states: though, that one of the major networks in this country recognises there is probably as much The Committee’s First Report received a mixed interest in soccer as there is in some of the response. other codes and actually gives it the kick We are now dealing with the second report, along that it deserves. which is the subject of today’s discussion. Those, particularly in the media, who believed the I will finish my comments by saying that I Senate failed to uncover evidence of corruption of do not want to pass judgment on the commit- which they claimed to be aware, were disappointed tee, on any individual or on the politics that that there were no sensational outcomes... were being played at the time. I do say, Labor senators were saying, ‘Disgrace! Shock, though, that we found quite a number of horror! Sensational allegations!’ The fact that individuals who were in many ways potential there were no sensational outcomes was a victims to the process. We should learn from problem for the media. They did not like that. that and look at refining our rules in this Senator Calvert—It gave two people a place to ensure that basic common rights can chance to clear their names. apply in the Senate committee process. Senator MICHAEL BAUME—It gave two Senator MICHAEL BAUME (New South people a chance to clear their names. This is Wales) (4.12 p.m.)—I guess the proof of the the key thing: their names and the names of pudding about this second report on Austral- other people in soccer had not been raised in ian soccer is evident from some of the things a critical way by this committee in the first that Senator Bolkus has just said. The admin- place, nor by the Stewart inquiry, but by the istration of soccer has improved immensely. ABC Four Corners program, by an ABC Soccer is stronger. I am glad to note that New radio program and by a magazine. The Labor South Wales is doing well, with three clubs senators are now pretending the attacks on in the top grouping—I just wish Wollongong those people came from us. That is the most was perhaps doing a little better. But one of ludicrous bit of nonsense I have heard for a the intriguing things about the negative long time, but it is not unusual because I have response by senators on the Labor side to this heard it over and over again. That is why I report is that in effect what they did—and it question their motives in this matter. was a deliberate action—was to seek to Those accusations were made repeatedly diminish the impact of this report on some and the whole point of this committee was to grounds which they say are significant. It was clear them up. They were given the oppor- a report aimed at clearing up what were some tunity of clearing it up. By doing that, oppor- unfortunate aspects of soccer. It was aimed at tunities were then provided for other people, assisting those who were cleaning up soccer if they could, to explain why they made the Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 143 accusations in public, in print, and to find out Soccer’s administration policy objectives and whether they were in fact accurate, and those regulatory mechanisms. who had not made those accusations publicly I have already quoted from a recent discus- but had made them privately to some mem- sion I had with Neville Wran and I now also bers of the media were invited to come quote him from the report. It states: forward to backup accusations that had been Mr Neville Wran AC QC, President of the Austral- made in public. It is about time people on the ian Soccer Federation— other side faced up to the truth and stopped now Soccer Australia— trying to blame this committee for airing these emphasised at a public hearing on 24 March 1995 matters in the first place. It is simply dishon- that the ASF would be behind any player who est to do so. came to the Committee to give evidence: As I was saying, the committee was criti- "As the President, I would like to use this cised by the media because there were no opportunity to emphasise that my weight and the sensational outcomes. The report continues: weight of the Board would be put behind any player who came to this Committee to give . . . those who believed the process had allowed evidence of any malpractice or breach of ethics damaging allegations to be retailed under parlia- in relation to the conduct of the code." mentary privilege were outraged— The Chief Executive of the Australian Unity Soccer and some of their outrage was so synthetic it Players’ Association (now the President of the is just ludicrous— Australian Soccer Player’s Association), Mr Kimon Taliadoros— despite the fact that "in camera" hearings prevented the great bulk of unsubstantiated allegations made who, I might say, has found form after he left to the Committee going on the public record— Marconi and went to play with UTS Olympic; we specifically catered for that problem by he has had a very good season— having in camera evidence— commented on the significance of the Committee’s inquiry for the future of Australian soccer: those who looked for a report that would, on the basis of conclusive evidence, resolve all the public This is the players’ union. The Labor Party and private allegations made over almost two years apparently has no interest at all in the players’ about impropriety in the sport, were not satisfied, union—the blokes at the shop front or on the as many potential witnesses who may have been of paddock. But Mr Taliadoros said: assistance to the inquiry chose not to appear. I thank the Senate for the opportunity to appear No force, no compulsion. We did not subpoe- before you. We regard the matters before us as na anyone. I do not think it would have been critical and of absolute fundamental importance to proper for a Senate committee to have forced the future of Australian soccer. people to give evidence when they were not You don’t hear the Labor blokes saying that, the subject of the inquiry. In other words, this do you? He said: committee acted with the utmost of propriety. We cannot overestimate the significance and the It did it right. It avoided all the ludicrous role the Senate committee does play and will play accusations being made by some members of in the future of Australian soccer. the opposition for unreasonable motives—I That response from the blokes actually play- suppose ‘unreasonable’ would be a parlia- ing the game is a slightly different response, mentary expression. They bear no relationship isn’t it, from the people opposite playing the to the merits of this inquiry. I will read man? further from the report: I am intrigued to hear what was, by infer- The great majority of witnesses welcomed the ence, a defence of the Marconi club by opportunity to participate and did so without Senator Bolkus. I am not at all surprised to specific invitation. hear that. I was told by someone whose You would never know that from the com- credibility I find very, very high that Senator ments made by the Labor Party senators Bolkus had said to them not to worry about opposite. The report continues: what was perceived as attacks on Marconi— Many of them looked to positive outcomes from ‘I’ll fix the committee for you.’ No wonder the inquiry, particularly by way of reform of Senator Bolkus is now treating it this way. 144 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

To pretend it was the committee that was service delivery by the APS as a key issue arising smearing Marconi or Mr Labbozzetta is from the conference— nonsense. Mr Labbozzetta is before various referred to earlier in the report— courts and has been before various courts in this nation. He has been before the liquor and resolved to conduct the inquiry. Additionally, the Committee was concerned at a number of licensing court in relation to breaches and so matters raised by the Commonwealth Ombudsman on. There are still litigations proceeding, so I in her Annual Report 1993-94. The Ombudsman’s do not want to discuss it. The fact is that any report identified several issues relating to service attempt to pretend this committee initiated delivery. these kinds of comments is a disgrace. I Of course, the Ombudsman may, at the believe the committee is quite right in ex- moment, be having second thoughts about the pressing its concern that these matters have wisdom of doing that. I think we ought to not been resolved in the club Marconi. take heed of the function that the Ombudsman Senator BOLKUS (South Australia)—Mr performed in alerting us to these problems. I President, I claim to be misrepresented. The think the recommendations that are at the assertion was made that I claimed that I could front of the report are, and will continue to ‘fix’ a Senate committee. I want to place on be, of great relevance to the Australian Public the record that not only did I not claim that— Service—in other words, what the Public never stated it—but also I have never asserted Service is; what Australians expect their that it is in the capacity of anyone to be able Public Service to do; and why it is necessary to fix a committee, particularly a committee for the Public Service to serve the Australian of this place. public. They were matters that were con- Question resolved in the affirmative. sidered by this committee and they are mat- ters that are addressed in the recommenda- Finance and Public Administration tions. References Committee Many of the recommendations may seem to Report have great irony in the very near future. For Senator BELL (Tasmania) (4.23 p.m.)—I example, recommendation 1 states: move: Special problems of small agencies be taken into That the Senate take note of the report. consideration when applying the efficiency divi- As Chair of the Finance and Public Adminis- dend— tration References Committee, I think it is I remind the Senate that coalition members on very important that we take some time to this inquiry endorsed this recommendation, as examine the report and its implications. I am they did all the recommendations. I recall that quite pleased to report to the Senate that, after that recommendation arose from the infor- some considerable effort in conducting the mation we derived from visiting Launceston, inquiry, the committee was unanimous in this a regional centre. I know that Senator Watson report, its findings having been endorsed by in particular—I am sure he will not mind me all members. reminding the Senate of this—was impressed This report should be of interest to all by the fact that these smaller agencies, and senators, particularly those in the new govern- their smaller regional offices, were having ment. The introduction in chapter 1 tells us great difficulty in meeting the efficiency the background to the inquiry. I will not dividend because they had been pared to the trouble the Senate with the first two para- bone, so to speak. That recommendation will graphs but I will draw its attention to para- have the potential to have a great deal of graph 1.4 on page 2—it illuminates to some irony in the very near future. I ask that extent the reason for the inquiry—which coalition members of the committee, particu- states: larly Senators Campbell, Kemp, Minchin and In October 1994, with the change to the Senate Watson, to have a look at the recommenda- committee system, the Senate Finance and Public tions to which they were party. Recommen- Administration References Committee identified dation No. 2 states: Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 145

Model contract principles be developed for the ment of Finance is responsible for initiating contracting out of service delivery, contracts which a venture into the Internet which lists new address the concerns identified by the Ombuds- best practices and which provides information man— about them for other agencies to see and I wonder what chance there is of that particu- models to follow. But all that that does is lar recommendation seeing the light of day in acknowledge the Department of Finance’s light of the developments which we are led to crucial role and the increasing importance of believe may happen soon with regard to our properly resourcing such central agencies to Public Service. I wonder whether the new monitor, to recommend, to initiate and to government has even taken the trouble to implement models of good practice, and to address this report, which was available to it apply models of efficiency through the Public and which had been agreed to by members of Service. To reduce the resources of the central the coalition. In the light of these recommen- agencies is surely to fly in the face of that dations, I think we should be asking our- logical step which was agreed to as being selves, and the new government, whether important by, I would say, all those who gave there is any relevance in seeking information evidence to this committee. from the departments and from Australian citizens to allow us to reach these conclu- Another thing which was very important sions, and to see whether they have any and which the committee agreed to unani- relationship to the policies which we are led mously is embodied in recommendation 8, to believe could well be applied to the Public which states: Service. Other recommendations may be seen to Agencies improve the recording of oral advice have a greater or lesser degree of irony. From given to clients. what I hear of the plans, it is obvious that the new government has not taken advantage of Of course, the reason for that is the notorious this excellent report, which is the product of example that we have of a member of the a great deal of hard work, not only by the public receiving advice given orally, taking secretariat and the senators who were on the action according to that advice or the interpre- committee but also by members of the public tation that the member of the public puts and the departments that took the trouble to upon it, and then finding that that is the bring to the committee their concerns and the wrong course to follow. That is a great facts at their disposal. inconvenience to the public. It is a great I now draw the Senate’s attention to recom- inefficiency and it requires a great amount of mendation No. 7, which explicitly says: time and effort to be expended by both the Improved use be made by Department of Finance citizen and the department to rectify the of evaluations lodged with it by portfolios, with situation. That problem was common amongst respect to assessment of the quality of evaluation, a number of departments. We recommend that disseminating information on best practice in that recording be undertaken. Of course, that evaluation activity, and in reviewing improvements requires the devotion of some more resources in the quality of service delivery— initially to save time and to create efficiency If the resources of the Department of Finance later. If this new government decides to are reduced, I think the department will find reduce the resources of our Public Service, it very hard to disseminate what best practice such recommendations will be very difficult is. I think it will find it very hard to monitor to follow. what best practice is. If the new government is at all interested in promoting best practice, I recommend that this report be a matter of I cannot see how it can even consider work- urgent reading and consideration for those ing in a direction which obviously contradicts who have any interest in our Public Service, the recommendation we have made. especially as it is a unanimous report. I must say in passing, though, that I noticed in a news report just recently that the Depart- Question resolved in the affirmative. 146 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Community Affairs References member who signed the minority report will Committee speak to that. Report Having said that, it may well be that action Senator HERRON (Queensland—Minister is not taken on this report. Regrettably, it for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander might be another one of those outstanding Affairs) (4.33 p.m.)—I move: Australian achievements that is adopted by That the Senate take note of the report. other countries. We may well fall behind the rest of the world even though we have pro- I was chairman of this committee and one of duced a report that is even more comprehen- my great regrets—although one does not have sive than that produced by the American many regrets about becoming a minister of Senate committee on the same tobacco indus- the new Howard government—is that I will try and one produced by the United Kingdom. no longer be chairman. This committee was one of the most effi- I am in the process of distributing it around cient and productive committees of the Senate the world. I have contacts through the various and I think it is a tribute to the Senate that cancer societies. I am dedicating it to Sir the Senate committee system has evolved to Richard Dole, who was the first person to the stage where it is now. When I look back demonstrate in the United Kingdom the on the last six years of my membership of association between tobacco and lung cancer. this committee, I believe that there are two Sir Richard Dole is now over 90 years of age. milestones. One was the committee report on He is very active and still involved. He was breast cancer and breast cancer screening in the one who, 40 years ago, got 50,000 doctors Australia, which has become a template, and in the United Kingdom to tabulate their as a result of which there has been extensive tobacco consumption. He followed them for improvement in the breast cancer screening 40 years. process in Australia. It was the cause of an That report was the first comprehensive enormous amount of debate and ultimately led report. It was produced and published in the to the establishment of the Australian Nation- British Medical Journal a couple of years al Cancer Network. I think this committee can ago. It showed that half of those 50,000 died take great pride in the fact that it was the as a direct result of tobacco consumption, catalyst for that occurrence. either of lung cancer or many of the other We often underestimate the results of diseases that occur: renal cancer, pulmonary reports that are produced by the Senate, but disease, emphysema, coronary artery disease, I believe that this report—the tobacco indus- and all the other diseases. try and the costs of tobacco-related illness— Peculiarly enough, there is a connection is an outstanding report. In fact, it is to be with my present ministry because at the time adopted by the World Health Organisation as I had no idea that I would be in this position. a template for what will occur throughout the When that report was published one of the world. Not only does it set a benchmark for extraordinary things that occurred was an the management of tobacco within the com- attack by the public relations department of munity but also it very clearly demonstrates Philip Morris. They wrote to every small the devastating effect of tobacco on the business in Australia. I have not got around Australian population. to thanking them because it was the first time I regret that there is a minority report. It is my name got known throughout the wider a paradox of the system, I suppose, that I am community. They did not know that I tabulat- the only now government member of that ed all those names. Every small business in committee who signed the majority report. Australia got letters from us in relation to the The minority report was signed by my col- campaign. I thank the public relations director leagues who held very genuine beliefs—I of Philip Morris for letting me know the understand that—about some parts of the names and addresses of every small business report, and I have no doubt that at least one in Australia. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 147

As a result of this present ministry, I just Foundation, the Queensland Cancer Fund, the allude to page 107 of the report, which states: Non-Smokers’ Movement of Australia, the In Western Australia, in the period 1983 to 1991, Anti-Cancer Council of Victoria, the Austral- tobacco smoking was responsible for 13 per cent ian Council on Smoking and Health and the of all Aboriginal deaths, compared to 10 per cent Northern Territory Department of Health and of Aboriginal deaths being related to excessive Community Services in respect of its alcohol alcohol consumption. and other drugs program. I could go on. There This came out through the research. Tobacco are many others who have written congratula- smoking is one of the biggest killers within tory reports. I commend this report to the the indigenous community of Australia be- Senate. cause 56 per cent of Aboriginal people living in the Northern Territory smoke cigarettes or Senator MINCHIN (South Australia— tobacco, according to a survey conducted in Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister) 1986. I would like to let the tobacco industry (4.42 p.m.)—As a member of the Community know that in this ministry one of the major Affairs References Committee, I would like projects that I will start is an anti-tobacco to make a few remarks on its report into the education program within the indigenous tobacco industry. I congratulate my colleague community because I think it is important, as Senator Herron on his chairmanship of the documented, as it is such a major killer within committee and the secretariat for what is a that community. very comprehensive and valuable report in the main. I support most of the recommendations Since the report was produced there has of this committee. In fact, 27 of the 39 rec- been evidence given in the United States and ommendations have my endorsement as a there are class actions occurring in relation to member of the committee. I particularly liability of employers to employees within the support those measures directed towards the industry. I was attacked by the Australian education of young people about the dangers Hotels Association. It was interesting that the of smoking. executive director of the AHA was the previ- ous director of the Tobacco Institute of I am certainly no advocate of smoking. Australia. I do not think that was coincidental. There are other measures in the report which I wrote back to him pointing out this problem are designed to prevent young people taking in relation to the fact that legislation may well up the habit. I feel very strongly about doing ensue in relation to the liability of employers all that we can to prevent adolescents from within the hotel and allied trades industry. smoking. At my request, the committee has If we knew then what we know now about recommended that the states and territories this particular product, of course it would be investigate the feasibility of making it an a prohibited product. As I mentioned also, the offence for underage people to purchase report is a blueprint. I think that the dissent tobacco products. I encourage the states and that occurred will be spoken to. I welcome territories to actually take that action. further debate about this particular report I take the view that we should treat smok- because I think that ongoing debate will ing as adult behaviour. You do have to draw ultimately lead to a consensus on it overall a distinction between the way governments throughout the community of Australia. treat adults in relation to behaviour such as I commend the other members of the smoking and the way you treat adolescents. committee for their contributions. It was a I think governments do have a role in educat- very comprehensive report. We sought advice ing and preventing young people taking up or from many people. We had individual contri- indulging in what is a dangerous and risky butions put forward. Many witnesses appeared behaviour. The role in relation to adults before the committee. Since its publication I should be somewhat different in a liberal have received laudatory comments from the society. I think the role is to do as much as Australian Cancer Society, the Australian possible to educate adults about the dangers Medical Association, the National Heart of the habit and to ensure they know the risks 148 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 of this particular activity, but at the end of the ACIL, the very respected economic consul- day the risk is theirs. tancy, has estimated that smokers are already On that basis, Senator Knowles and I did taxed $2.2 billion over and above their use of put in a minority report. There are 12 recom- subsidised health care. So they are making mendations that we cannot support primarily much more of a contribution to the communi- because they seek to further increase the ty than they have received from it for the regulation of what is already the most highly effects of their habit. They are subsidising the regulated industry in Australia, regulation the rest of the community who are non-smokers. like of which no other legal industry—and it I think that is unconscionable and I could is a legal industry—has to endure. never support a proposition for further in- creases. I am particularly concerned about the effect of recommendation 25, which seeks to reduce I will not take up any more of the Senate’s the number of retail outlets permitted to sell time. The majority of the recommendations tobacco products. This is a Senate committee have our support but there are a number that saying that there should be a reduction in the simply go too far in a free and liberal society number of retail outlets. This would be and they should never be adopted. devastating for the small business sector of Senator WEST (New South Wales) (4.46 our community. I think a lot of people are not p.m.)—I am delighted to have been able to aware of the extent to which the sale of participate in the preparation of this report tobacco products is a vital component of and to have been one of the signatories to the small business revenue. For tobacconists it is majority report. Tobacco smoking and related 85 per cent of revenue, but even for service areas is always a contentious issue. We knew stations it comprises 40 per cent of their that before we started looking at them. I revenue, for convenience stores it comprises respect the opinions of those who put in the 30 per cent and for milk bars it comprises 25 minority report but I and a number of others per cent. It is all very well for senators to sit on the committee come from a biased back- around and feel good and say, ‘Let’s reduce ground. the number of retail outlets.’ These are the As someone with an 18-year nursing back- lives of men and women striving in small ground and having been married to a smoker businesses and trying to make a living under who died of cardiac disease at a young age, already very difficult conditions and they I feel very strongly about this issue. I know, cannot withstand this sort of recommendation. from committee discussions, that Senator The problem must be treated at the source. Minchin is still not convinced that nicotine is Discouraging people from taking up the addictive. That is something he will have to practice by education is one thing, but to work through. actually seek to have the government act in an authoritarian manner to restrict the number Senator Teague—But it is addictive. of outlets able to sell the product is unduly Senator WEST—Yes, it is. We had evi- authoritarian and not one that I could ever dence from people in the industry that it was support. not addictive but that was before the recent I oppose in particular the proposal that there revelations in the United States when the should be further increases in the real level of industry itself said, ‘Yes, we know.’ That is taxation on this product. My objection is on important to recognise. the basis that there has been a 96 per cent Like Senator Herron, I am also interested in increase in real terms in revenue from tobacco the responses to the campaign waged by to governments over the past 12 years—a tobacco companies, such as Philip Morris, massive increase in the amount of taxation— against this report. I also had a lot of letters and, of course, this falls on the lower income from people who did not like the report. They earning sector of our society. It is a very thought they knew what was in it without regressive form of taxation and one that is reading it. They were going on the informa- very undesirable. tion provided by Philip Morris. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 149

Where I could, I made the effort to talk to sales you should be able to isolate your people who had written or rung and I was tobacco sales. amazed by their lack of understanding of the That draws me to the issue of the juxtapos- committee process. They had been led to ition of tobacco with other products. I name believe that these recommendations were law. the Darrell Lea franchise outlets in central That they were not was a major point to get western New South Wales. Things may have across to them. changed in the last few weeks since the health They informed me about the need to restrict department did its survey, but until recent access to tobacco products. These were people times the Darrell Lea shops were selling who were selling the product. There were a tobacco as well as lollies, chocolates and, in number of reasons for that. Lots of small some cases, discount ice cream. outlets have a very low tobacco turnover and Senator Bolkus—You are joking! those who were concerned about the quality of the product felt that the low turnover was Senator WEST—I am not joking, Senator leading to stale cigarettes. They therefore felt Bolkus; that is a fact. In a shop in Bathurst there should be rationalisation within the there was even an area recessed from the industry. It seems that every other industry in footpath, like a porch, with a mobile cabinet this country has undergone rationalisation of displaying tobacco products. That has gone their outlets. now but following Easter, when the windows were full of Easter eggs in lovely, glitzy There was also a plea by outlets for support tinsel—nice products—there was a display in enforcing the no identification-no sale law. window full of Alpine tobacco products. I A number of people rang me and said they have a problem with that. were sick and tired of having parents sending In a number of newsagents there is a small their kids into the shops to buy cigarettes for display of cigarettes above the counter. But I them. They were embarrassed about knocking have been into several where you look behind the kids back and by the fact that parents did and see a very large, colourful display of not understand the magnitude of what they cigarettes, right next to which are the swap were asking their children to do, which is to cards. I have a problem with the close juxta- break the law. They certainly wanted support position of a product that can be sold legally in enforcing that restriction. only to persons aged 18 or over with other In recent times in the central west of New products that are attractive to and attention South Wales the health department conducted grabbing for the younger people in our com- a survey of compliance with the law and munity. If that situation is not addressed then found a compliance rate of 80 per cent. That we will be doing nothing to overcome the is fine but it means that 20 per cent are not problem of underage smoking. complying with the law. It means that 20 per You cannot tell me that the chief purchasers cent could be advertising incorrectly or selling of swap cards are people over the age of 18. to minors. They are not. I have watched them. They are There is another issue regarding tobacco young people in their early teens who, at this advertising which concerns me greatly. It is stage of their lives, are not able to make an touched on in recommendation 25, one of the adult decision as to whether or not they more contentious recommendations and the smoke. They are seeing a product which is one that the industry and Senator Minchin do absolutely next door to the product they are not like. It recommends as an interim measure purchasing, which they know is legal and the isolation of tobacco products from other which they enjoy being involved with. products for sale in outlets. It is interesting to The wrong messages are being sent to the note that newsagents in New South Wales can younger members of the community. Until isolate their lotto and other gambling sales but retailers and tobacco companies do something they cannot isolate their tobacco sales. It to address this problem, I am afraid that I seems to me that if you can isolate your lotto cannot rest. I find it to be in such bad taste, 150 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

I wonder about the morals and the efficacy of The government, having won an enormous it. It offends me greatly that these products endorsement from the Australian people, now are being put next to products that are a great has to put up with resolving an even worse attraction to young people in our community. mess than was admitted to during the election They wrap up and put in brown paper covers campaign by the Labor Party in government. the explicit sex magazines. They can restrict As the Governor-General’s speech, which the sex magazines, they can restrict the access outlined the approach of the government, said: to Lotto, but they cannot restrict access to a Australia is a society rich in resources of all product that kills. I do not know what our kinds. We should not have to settle for a lower priorities are in this community if we are level of economic performance than other countries going to allow that to happen. with fewer advantages. I urge the new government and Senator That is what happened under the Labor Herron to most vigorously pursue this report government. Fortunately, that era has ended. and to uphold and agree to as many recom- This government’s policies, as outlined, are to mendations as possible or to address the fulfil people’s aspirations by rewarding hard questions that have actually been identified work and initiative, and achieving rising here. This is a real problem. A lot of evidence living standards, affordable home ownership came before the committee. The problem that and a more positive future for our children. worries us now is that an increasing number Let us look at all those things and the way we of young females under the age of 18 are can achieve them. taking up the habit. They are taking it up at Rewarding hard work involves getting rid a greater rate than are young males. This is of the nonsense involved in the present going to have an impact on health later on. industrial relations system. People in this We know that unborn children are affected by place who represent a clear minority of the tobacco. We know that babies are affected by Australian people claim that they are going to the inhalation of tobacco smoke after they are do what they can to block the massive re- born. These issues have to be addressed. I forms needed to the Australian industrial rela- urge the government to take this report very tions system. Apart from rewarding hard work seriously. This issue is of grave concern and and initiative, we want to achieve rising living grave importance to the young people in this standards. That is done by reducing costs and community. by providing incentives, which leads to The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT increased competitiveness internationally. (Senator Colston)—Order! The time for An interesting issue is affordable home consideration of committee reports has ex- ownership. Before the last election it was pired. particularly disturbing to see that after a year GOVERNOR-GENERAL’S SPEECH or so of home ownership, young families all around Australia found that, as a result of the Address-in-Reply previous government’s policies, they owed Debate resumed. more on their house than it was worth. This Senator MICHAEL BAUME (New South negative equity was a dreadful blow to so Wales) (4.56 p.m.)—What a pleasant change many young Australians, many of whom it is to participate in a debate in response to found it necessary—perhaps because of an opening speech by the Governor-General moving for a new job—to sell their house. which is full of sanity, decency, integrity and They faced losses—some of them signifi- hope for the future. It is a pleasant change cant—in doing so. I am not talking about after 13 years of what we have had to put up mansions, I am talking about $100,000 hous- with, what the Australian people have had to es. put up with, particularly the false hopes, false The honourable member for Macarthur (Mr promises and, regrettably, unsatisfactory Fahey), my successor after an unfortunate outcomes. As was pointed out in this chamber break, made his maiden speech today. He said today, we were left with a black hole. one of the striking things about the win in the Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 151 electorate of Macarthur was that he won of life. These huge increases were not as booths in what had been Labor heartland. promised. They were exactly the opposite of There was disenchantment by people who had what was promised in 1993. That helps lost faith. They were no longer true believers, explain the level of disenchantment. because of the actions of the true deceivers. I have mentioned before in this place the It means that we have a specific duty to huge increase that was represented in some of ensure that we take the strong actions needed, these areas. For example, there was a 46 per which the previous government failed to do, cent increase in the sales tax on ordinary to protect the opportunities of these people, to passenger cars after the 1993 election, when make certain that home ownership is afford- the previous government had promised not to able and that the government’s own actions increase indirect taxes. Sales tax on cars went do not damage the future for Australians the up from 15 per cent to 22 per cent. There was way the previous government’s actions did. a 30 per cent increase in tax on wine and That is why it is so heartening to hear in this cider. That was a terrific boost to the speech of the Governor-General, stating the winemakers and apple growers, particularly Howard government’s policies, that the needs those of Tasmania. No-one from the Labor of Australian families will be placed at the Party said anything about that in the 1993 centre of the national policy agenda. Small election. Their sales tax was up 30 per cent business will be promoted as a dynamic because it rose from a 20 per cent rate to a 26 engine of our economy which can offer new per cent rate. The previous government jobs and opportunities to many Australians. In whacked up the price of food items like particular, more young Australians will have biscuits, flavoured milk, fruit and vegetable the opportunity to fulfil their talents through juices, cordials, ice-cream and confectionery, rewarding jobs. snack foods and soft drink by 20 per cent, In looking at the achievements, if I can use from a 10 per cent rate to a 12 per cent rate. that word loosely, of the previous govern- And so it goes on. ment, what I found interesting was that, Many people did not realise these taxes despite all sorts of promises and assurances were there. They listened to the Labor Party and despite its attack on the 1993 coalition talking about how dreadful indirect taxes and policy supporting a broad based indirect tax, consumption taxes were and believed them. the previous government had massively There were huge taxes. There is one group of increased taxes on many of the vital products items for which sales tax went up from 30 per that Australians consume, without providing cent to 33 per cent. That was an increase in the offsetting tax benefits that had been sales tax of almost one-third. That was on promised in 1993. That dishonest campaign things like televisions, videos, watches, by the Labor Party in 1993 came home to clocks, records, CD players, cameras and tape roost. That level of dishonesty was simply recorders. These sorts of things are what unacceptable to the Australian people, and many people say are luxuries. Most Austral- that is one of the reasons for this heartland ians take the view that they are the normal rejection by so many traditional Labor voters things that Australians are entitled to have, of a party that simply let them down, lied to because, after all, we are not supposed to be them, misled them and taxed them significant- a Third World country, even though the ly on the very basics. previous government may well have treated During the election campaign, I found that us as such. one of the most successful dodgers being But there are other things too. Sales tax handed out outside shopping centres was one went up by 10 per cent, unheralded, unsung, which related to the huge increases in indirect unpromised. In fact, the opposite was prom- taxes, in the face of the previous govern- ised by the Labor government. It lifted sales ment’s promise not to, which hit struggling tax from 20 to 22 per cent on items like dog lower income groups more than they hit any- food. Pensioners who had a pet to keep them one else. They were directed at the essentials company—particularly single pensioners 152 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 whose partners had died—faced these hidden it is a headline in one of the papers to which rises. The reason I am stressing this is that we he has drawn reference, I ask him to continue have a record of a Labor government which his speech on the address-in-reply. deceived the people of Australia with its hidden, unheralded taxes which it had prom- Senator MICHAEL BAUME—I can ised not to impose. As against that, we now understand Senator Schacht’s sensitivity. have a coalition government which has given Those initials may well appropriately summa- a commitment to stick by its promises. This rise his performance whilst he was a minister, will involve a radical change in Australian in whatever vernacular meaning it may or politics. may not have. This government has to face a situation in which the previous government, The response by the Australian people to the Labor government, failed dismally. We that totally deceptive approach by the Keating keep hearing how the Labor Party is going to government is best evidenced by the Illa- reconsider its approach to taxes. The President warra Mercury, which the Labor Party enjoys of the Labor Party is quoted today in the showing front pages of every now and again Australian Financial Review as saying that he in this chamber. The Illawarra Mercury,on thought perhaps they should have a look at a the Monday after the election, showed Mr consumption tax. The article states: Keating at the Bankstown workers sports club. Under the heading ‘Leadership’ all that ALP President Mr Barry Jones yesterday added his was left were the letters ‘RS’. That sums up voice to Labor calls for open debate on tax reform, saying that in the aftermath of its emphatic defeat in the Australian vernacular the style, the at the polls, the party could not rule out a goods attitude, the approach and the performance of and services tax in any revision of its policies. the Labor Party—definitely very RS. It is interesting to notice that despite this alleged That is going back to basics, is it not? I can attack on— remember Mr Paul Keating, the former Prime Minister who slunk out of this business Senator Schacht—Mr Acting Deputy without facing the parliament after his defeat, President, I rise on a point of order. I don’t was one of the first people to urge for a know the broad definitions of ‘unparlia- goods and services tax. Is it not incredible to mentary’ but clearly Senator Baume is trying see how flexible the Labor Party is on matters to indicate that he believes ‘RS’ stands for of principle? something that, if he said it out loud, would be unparliamentary. He should either have the It is disappointing that the Labor Party courage to say what it says or be asked to managed to increase sales tax significantly, withdraw it. which is the most common indirect tax, since Senator O’Chee—On the point of order: it it came into office. It was a huge increase is quite obvious that Senator Baume is trying, which it hid; in fact there was a 50 per cent as civilly as he possibly can, to express a increase in sales tax as a proportion of GDP matter which is of great emotion and signifi- since it came into office. At the same time, it cance to him and he is trying to do it in was saying we could not have any indirect language which befits the chamber. I do not taxes. think that that should give rise to any censure The 1982-83 budget—that is, the Howard against Senator Baume, in fact I think Senator budget—had sales tax collecting about two Baume should be congratulated for his moder- per cent of gross domestic product. The 1995- ation in these matters. 96 Labor budget had three per cent—a 50 per The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT cent increase in the percentage of sales tax to (Senator Teague)—Senator Schacht has made GDP. But at the same time in 1982-83 in- his submission about standing orders and it is come tax provided 16.3 per cent of gross the case that Senator Baume has drawn domestic product. It is now up to 18.4 per attention to two letters which he has not made cent. That is higher than even in the Whitlam explicit in the chamber. Also, there are collo- years. So the previous government was hitting quialisms that he has implied. In noting that the Australian consumer by stealth, yet at the Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 153 same time it was resisting attempts to really per cent. They have never been big, but they fix up the tax system. have declined dramatically—from about $80 There is one area of the tax system that I million to only $24 million. At the same time, hope the government takes into consideration the total of all these other areas has gone up in its review of tax: tax expenditures—and I from $10.8 billion to $17.8 billion. am glad to hear that it will be looking at The advantage of having tax expenditures equity and such matters. There is a statement for the arts is that it provides an incentive for before the chamber at the moment from the private sector to contribute to the arts in Treasury dealing with tax expenditures. I hope a way that the private sector may well not that it will take into consideration the fact that find interesting or attractive otherwise. A there are some benefits in some tax expendi- small concession by the government encour- tures. Tax expenditures, by the way, represent ages a large contribution from the private the cost to the government of tax concessions sector. It is arguable that without the contribu- and many people find them particularly useful tion from the government the private sector concessions for various reasons such as may find other ways of spending its money. providing incentives, in some instances, for There are quite a few areas where great private sector activity. benefits can be achieved. Film is one that was It is intriguing to note, though, that there overdone. As a result of the abuse of film has been a blow-out in tax expenditures over credits, there was almost a reaction against it. the last six years. Six years ago tax expendi- There is no doubt that taxation incentives for tures—in other words, the cost to the govern- the film industry, which have continued, but ment of various deductions—were $10.8 on a less generous rate, have been a factor in billion. They are now $17.8 billion, something the extraordinarily dramatic success of the like a 70 per cent increase in just six years. Australian film industry. I think almost all of Obviously, this is one of the things that will the $24 million that is going to culture and have to be looked at. As the Treasury docu- recreation goes to film. ment states: There are other areas, though, that I would While most tax expenditures could in principle be hope would receive a much greater stimulus, replaced by a direct outlay— in particular funding for the area of sports in other words, by a grant of some kind— activities. Not enough attention has been paid, the tax expenditure estimates refer to revenue in my view, to the capacity for people to forgone. contribute, through tax deductible items, to Is it better, for example, to give people direct the sporting success of Australia. There is an grants or to give people tax deductions? organisation run by the Australian Sports Clearly, that is a question the government will Foundation, which hopefully, with the Olym- have to look at. There are many people who pics in Atlanta and the Sydney Olympics would much prefer to see things given as a coming up, will encourage many people to direct grant. take up this matter. In some areas, like culture and recreation, I want to make my plea to the government. there is a clear benefit in providing a tax If there is to be a total review of tax, and in expenditure; in other words, providing incen- particular tax expenditures, I plead with the tives for the private sector to provide funding government to recognise—and I am certain for various activities in order to get a tax that the government will recognise—that there deduction. These areas are not large expendi- is some merit in some of these areas. There ture items. Tax concessions in culture and is no doubt that in many other areas—I recreation now represent only 0.1 per cent of exclude arts and sport from these—there has all tax expenditures; of the $17.8 billion that been an incredible blow-out in tax expendi- these concessions cost the government—in tures. other words, taxpayers—culture and recreation I also want to quickly deal with the issue of now represent only $24 million, 0.1 per cent. industrial relations. The Governor-General in Six years ago, they represented a whole 0.8 his speech said: 154 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

The industrial relations legislation, to be introduced Arts (Senator Alston) to make Telstra more early in the life of the Parliament, will promote efficient, was taken by the Labor opposition genuine co-operation between employers and to be an attack on Telstra which would employees, provide greater scope for workplace agreements and give all Australians greater choice diminish our capacity to float it off. How and more incentive. absurd! What was being demonstrated was very simple: there is enormous scope for I certainly endorse that. The Australian people massive improvements in the efficiency of endorsed that at the last election. Telstra, and those efficiencies will emerge Many people go around the place saying from its partial privatisation, because at last that they have a mandate to do something. I it will be genuinely exposed to commercial would prefer to see it as a responsibility to do reality. something. We were elected to be a respon- Obviously, it is very difficult for an organi- sible government. It is the responsibility of sation which has been an effective monopolist this government to make those improvements for so long to suddenly change into being a that it talked about clearly and openly to the competitive force. You can see those difficul- Australian people before the Australian people ties—institutional difficulties, if you like—in passed their very decisive vote in favour of the dispute about Optus and Telstra sharing this government. cabling, about whether things should be Maybe the opposition will say that we do underground or overhead. not have a mandate and that, really, all the It has been revealed that attempts to negoti- Australian people were doing was voting ate by Optus were met with a pretty tough against them. I suppose that that is a respect- and brusque response from Telstra. Whoever able point of view. One would expect most was right or wrong, the fact remains that people of sound mind to take the view that Australian society is having to cope with an the previous government was not doing a very unnecessary and expensive duplication of a good job and deserved to get beaten. The fact whole set of cables, some of which are is that the present Australian government has unsightly, because of an inability to come to a responsibility to deliver those reforms that a rational and sensible arrangement before- could not be delivered before. hand. I would hope that commercial reality Despite comments by even such people as will be a much stronger factor in future the Chief Justice of the Industrial Relations decisions of Telstra. Far from my damaging Court—who said that everything was wonder- the prospects of floating Telstra, what I am ful in that jurisdiction before the election, demonstrating is that if past figures which which was a fairly inappropriate interven- were quoted by the Labor opposition showed tion—there is no doubt that there are serious a great achievement while it was being run problems in that court and certainly in the badly, imagine what could be achieved if it is way that the union membership matter has run well and if you get back to international been conducted in the past. It would seem to standards in terms of employment and so on, me that as fewer and fewer people in Austral- and you have better work practices and a ia—less than a third of the work force now— situation where commercial reality is domi- determine that they want to be ‘protected’ by nant. unions, there is greater and greater need for I do not know whether Labor members a new system to be introduced that will really believe the people who complained provide a degree of effective protection for about Telstra affecting their businesses. those people. I am overjoyed to see that this Maybe the Labor Party does not believe those government is doing that. people. Maybe they think they did not have I should also briefly refer to the Telstra a claim or maybe they think they were han- matter, which I raised at question time today. dled admirably. If so, I think Labor Party It was alleged that my question, which was senators who take that view would be in a followed by my welcoming the determination massive minority, both in this building and of the Minister for Communications and the among the Australian people. The fact is that Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 155 there are improvements that can and should sort of society Australia should have, other be made. I am overjoyed that we are proceed- than a few cliches about inclusiveness, cohe- ing with this. Of course, the results of the sale siveness or anything like that. There was no will allow one of the greatest environmental indication of how that was going to be advances from a government ever made in achieved. this country. I totally approve. I commend the I suppose one of the reasons why there was speech. I think it sets us on a path which will so little substance about policy in the speech result in this government being the first of is in fact because, to get itself elected, the many Howard governments to come. opposition had to commit itself to supporting Senator SCHACHT (South Australia)(5.25 so many of the policies of the previous p.m.)—I rise to speak on this address-in-reply government. It would have been too embar- to the speech of the Governor-General. Of rassing for John Howard to support the course, as we all know, it is not a speech continuation of the many excellent policies of written by the Governor-General. It is a the previous government in the Governor- speech written by the government—the Prime General’s speech. Minister in particular. I have been in politics I will return later to some individual aspects for nearly 30 years. I have seen governments of the Governor-General’s speech. I certainly of all persuasions, state and federal. I sat here want to return to the remarks he made on yesterday and I have to say that I have never behalf of us all about the shocking events that heard a more uninspiring speech from a new occurred last Sunday in Tasmania. I do want government. One would have thought that to make mention of the constitutional conven- after 13 years in opposition, we would have tion that he will be calling and the issue of got something more visionary, more inspiring legislation on the flag. But as shadow minister and more exciting than was dished up yester- for communications, I wish to talk about the day. speech and the government’s policies on the It does not matter about the length of the privatisation of Telstra. speech. That is not important. The Gettysburg I second and strongly support the amend- Address, which I think is 267 words, is ment moved by the Leader of the Opposition considered to be one of the great speeches of in the Senate, Senator Faulkner. It is: all time. So length of speech is not a deter- That the following words be added to the Ad- mining factor of quality or of content. It was dress-in-Reply: a short speech yesterday, but it is the content ", and the Senate is of the opinion that no part of that really condemns it. Telstra should be sold." I waited for an indication of some view We have before us, in a limited way in the from the new government of the practical Governor-General’s speech and also from the measures they are going to introduce—bits Minister for Communications and the Arts and pieces of legislation, the odd privatisation (Senator Alston) here in the parliament today, and the odd change to industrial relations reasons why Telstra should be privatised. We legislation. I expected that there would be have heard remarks from Senator Baume— some theme to it. probably not the last remarks, but maybe we The one theme that I could detect was will not have long to hear from Senator something to do with improving the competi- Baume, if the rumours are correct. I hear that tiveness of the Australian economy. That is he may be given one of the first political fine. Improving the economy is a noble appointments of the new government, some objective. Certainly, if you went back and ambassadorship or high commissionership looked at Governor-Generals’ speeches over overseas. Many of us on this side of politics the 13 years of the previous government, we may think that his appointment as ambassador also had the objectives to make ourselves a to Liberia would be appropriate. more internationally competitive economy, Senator O’Chee—Only Senator Baume with more effective exports, et cetera. But could bring peace to Liberia—only Senator there was no vision in this speech about the Baume has the capacity. 156 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Senator SCHACHT—When Senator would have on employment in small and large Baume’s appointment is made, one of the towns in regional and rural Australia. things we will not have to put up with is the He has bagged the performance of Telstra, sanctimonious remarks the opposition made failing to mention that in 1994-95 this com- for 13 years about political appointments. pany made a profit before tax of $2.4 bil- Senator Baume will be the ultimate political lion—the biggest profit of any company in pay-off of the new Prime Minister paying off Australia’s history. That is not a bad perform- an old friend who stuck with him through ance. Profit after tax was $1.7 million. The thick and thin, the bad days and the good dividend to the federal government, to the days, of the 13 years of opposition. I suppose people of Australia, was $944 million, which maybe Senator Baume, with his previous was on top of tax of $649 million paid to the record with Patrick Partners being a stock- Australian people. broker and investment adviser back in the seventies, is hankering for the consul general- The total value added of the company for ship in New York, where he can be close to 1994-95 was $8.7 billion and that was distri- Wall Street and may be able to see how buted, which again points out the value of this people like Mr Michael Milken defrauded company to Australia. The value of that $8.7 hundreds of millions of dollars from the billion went to workers—employees’ wages shareholders in America and ultimately went and superannuation of $3.9 billion or 44.6 per to gaol for his crimes. We will not have to cent. To the providers of capital, $506 million put up with Senator Baume for much longer went as interest, and $944 million, as I said, and, for many on this side, that will probably went as dividends. be a great relief. Government taxes were 7.4 per cent—that The comments Senator Baume made about is, income tax—and other taxes were $288 Telstra today in the parliament are really million. For reinvestment, $2.4 billion, 28 per amazing and way off the point. He has talked cent, of that value added went in reinvest- down and bagged one of the biggest com- ment. That is major investment for the infra- panies in Australia. He has tried to make out structure of Australia. It is investment that to the Senate that this is a broken down created jobs, investment that created growth company that is inefficient and appalling and for literally thousands of small businesses that it should be privatised to be saved. across Australia that rely on Telstra to be a major purchaser of their services. As I pointed out in my remarks when Telstra has a policy of buying Australian. taking note of Senator Alston’s comments, It is an industry policy that, when we were in this is a company that at the moment employs government, we were proud to be associated 75,000 Australians full time. Senator Baume with. We wrote it into the policy of Telstra wants to sack about 30,000 of them, if you try and into our telecommunications policy. We to read through his remarks. This is from a have no indication from the opposition when senator who made sanctimonious remarks they privatise Telstra how those industry about the need to reduce unemployment in policies, those guarantees of Purchasing Australia but is quite cheerful about the idea Australia, will be maintained. When you start that up to 30,000 employees from Telstra letting foreign owners in, they are not going around Australia would be sacked. to be interested in buying from the corner Remember this, it will not be just the store or from an Australian SME. They will employees or middle managers at headquar- want to buy at the cheapest possible price. ters in Melbourne or Sydney that will be They will import the product from overseas, dismissed; it will be literally thousands—tens and that costs jobs. It costs the jobs in the of thousands of employees of Telstra spread small business area. out across rural and regional Australia. I Senator O’Chee—Telstra has consistently would have thought the National Party would favoured foreign mobile phone manufacturers be particularly worried to see the impact that over Australian ones. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 157

Senator SCHACHT—Senator, you speak to get the price you want. Once that occurs, with great ignorance on this issue, but I every time you make a phone call in Australia cannot condemn you because generally your thereafter the money registers will roll over in ignorance on most issues in this place is Tokyo or Paris or New York or London. profound. Those foreign companies will get the benefit. Telstra has a purchasing policy, wherever The other aspect of the Telstra policy that possible, to buy Australian. You go and talk the coalition has not talked about is that once to Ericsson Australia, to Alcatel and to other you allow foreign ownership from other telcos major manufacturers and they will all tell you in at any level they would not want Telstra that they only exist in Australia because of competing with them in foreign markets, Telstra’s policy for the past 30 or 40 years to particularly in the Asia-Pacific region. Some buy Australian. They would not be in Austral- people have predicted in the next 10 years ia if it were not for that Telstra policy—a 500 million phones will be connected in the policy that goes right back to when it was a Asia-Pacific region, which will double the government department. That will all come to number of phone connections in the history of an end. There will be no industry develop- telephony in the world. ment policy with the privatisation of Telstra. We should be in there with a big company, The opposition has said, ‘But we are only like Telstra, owned by Australians, by the going to privatise a third of it. We are going government, to make sure we get a big slice to privatise a third and raise $8 million, and of that action. Could you imagine that a we will only allow 12½ per cent foreign Japanese owned company, an American owners.’ We all know that will be the foot in owned company or a French owned telco the door. During the election campaign, on a would be very happy having an Australian couple of occasions Mr Howard let it slip, company sharing with them? If they are a ‘That is only the first step. Maybe after the shareholder in the Australian company they next election, if we are successful, we will will do everything at the board level to wind look at privatising more of it.’ We all know back Telstra’s investment overseas so they that once you privatise part of such an organi- have less competition. sation the inevitability of the whole lot being Those of us who have had the opportunity sold will follow as surely as day follows to see the impact Telstra staff have made on night. places like Vietnam, China, Indonesia and Let us not beat around the bush here. We India with the development of foreign markets are talking about the privatisation of Telstra. that are earning income for Australia would We are told that there will be limitations on realise we have great prospects. The privatis- the foreign investment, the foreign ownership, ation of Telstra, allowing other foreign owned of Telstra. At the moment it will be 12 per telecommunications companies in, will restrict cent but, when you go to full privatisation, our ability to develop an Australian generic the government would be looking at selling name—an export earner for Australia. These Telstra and getting a price of something in are important issues which the government excess of $20 billion—the biggest float of any has not yet addressed in the debate we have company in the history of Australia. heard so far. It is said by many experts that you will not One of the issues the government has tried be able to find anywhere near the $20 billion to address is cross-subsidies and community in the Australian stock market or the Austral- service obligations. Senator Alston has been ian capital market. The only way you will get at some pains to say, ‘We will write in the anywhere near that figure is to allow a large privatisation legislation that we will guarantee proportion of it to come in from overseas. community service obligations will be con- Even though you may want to limit it, in the nected, will continue and will be subsidised.’ end, to get the money you want, you will I know, and anyone who has been around have to raise the foreign limit and basically politics long enough will know, that you can let the foreigners have as much as they want write it in, but when a government five years 158 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 hence is a bit short of money and trying to Because Telstra is a national network it raise funds it will say, ‘Well, it is costing us operates a cross-subsidy to help, in particular, $500 million for the community service the non-metropolitan areas of Australia, obligations.’ Treasury and the Finance depart- Senator McGauran. Figures I have been given ment might say, ‘Well, we know how to get show that in rural areas of Australia the cost you a couple of hundred million. We will of providing a normal telephone service to reduce the community service obligations.’ It ordinary Australians can vary considerably. I would be put in the budget and through it will use the electorate of Barker in my own would go. That would be a reduction. You state as an example. The member for Barker cannot guarantee the community service is the Defence minister in the new govern- obligations forever and a day even by legisla- ment. In Bordertown the annual access cost tion or regulation. per line is $1,480. In Murray Bridge it is $460. In Naracoorte it is $1,650. In Kangaroo The National Party, in particular, should be Island it is $2,360. extremely worried because its constituency out in the bush will be the first losers when You cannot convince me, and you will not the community service obligations are wiped be able to convince the Australian public, that out or reduced. when you privatise Telstra and allow it to be purely market driven it will not go down the Senator McGauran interjecting— list and say, ‘We are not going to subsidise Senator SCHACHT—We had an example and lose money on providing these rural of this only a couple of weeks ago when services in these areas. We have to make a Telstra approached the new government, after quid for our shareholders.’ Therefore the cost approaching the previous government on will start going up. Telstra will start changing several occasions, to say, ‘We want to charge the rates to recoup those cost subsidies from for directory assistance. We believe we can those areas. You will not be able to even out raise $80 million in a year by handling the the profit, even out the national network, to millions of phone calls that people make to have some informal cross-subsidisation. get telephone and directory assistance.’ That Again, as sure as day follows night, the price is provided free at the moment. There are will be jacked up. sections of our community who need to have Senator McGauran, I will give an example that assistance and should not be charged for from your own state of Victoria. In the it. The blind, old people and so on have Bendigo electorate, in Charlton it costs $900 difficulty reading telephone books. for an annual excess cost. In Bendigo it is We rejected those applications when we $480. In Maryborough it is $550. Again, the were in government. So far—I may be cor- smaller the town, the more remote, the bigger rected—I have seen no public statement by the access cost, the bigger a privatised Telstra Senator Alston saying that he is going to will start charging to provide that telephone reject such an application. The reason I service. These issues have not been addressed, believe he will not reject it at the moment is and no matter how you write the legislation if the so-called privatisation process is al- you will not be able to protect the ordinary lowed to run he will want to tell those com- citizen that you are supposed to represent, panies who want to bid for Telstra, ‘There is Senator McGauran—those people living in another $80 million of revenue coming your rural and regional areas. way. You can charge for directory assistance.’ At the last election, we lost a lot of regional This will boost the price at the expense of the seats in Australia, make no bones about that. blind, the old, the feeble—those in the com- We got done like a dinner. I accept the result munity who can least afford it. You cannot without argument: the result is there. If you guarantee with a privatised organisation that are mad enough to continue with the all these community service obligations can privatisation of Telstra, and these people start survive. But there is even a wider issue than having to pay something extra to maintain a community service obligations. normal telephone service because this infor- Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 159 mal cross-subsidy ends—not the official this issue and, if the Government wants to community service obligation—then we are take us on, we have been around a hundred- going to win back a lot of those seats very plus years on these issues and we will be rapidly because people are not going to pay around to fight you. those sorts of fees. I conclude with a couple of other remarks You won a seat called Bass back at the last about the Governor-General’s speech. Yester- election. On Flinders Island in the electorate day, the Governor-General quite rightly of Bass, the cost of annual access per line is mentioned in his opening remarks the terrible $4,900. I want the new member, Mr Warwick tragedy in Tasmania and all of us in the Smith, former ombudsman for telecommuni- parliament have shown how appalled we felt cations, to go and tell his new electors, ‘We at this unbelievable occurrence. People are cannot guarantee that that informal cross- asking what can we do to stop it. I want to be subsidy is going to continue on Flinders blunt about this. Clearly, national and state Island.’ And he will not be able to continue parliaments in Australia have to take action to that cross-subsidy under privatisation. ban public access to these sorts of weapons. These are the issues. These are the reasons Tasmania has the loosest gun laws existing that this opposition will use every power it in Australia. People there are able to buy has in the Senate to vote down the automatic and semi-automatic rifles. There privatisation of Telstra. We said all through have been stories in the press in the last few the election campaign that if we had the days about that. Let us be blunt about it, numbers with other minority parties in the unfortunately, Tasmania has reaped what it Senate, we would use them to stop the has sown by not carrying out decent, reason- privatisation of Telstra. Because of the voting able legislation to restrict access to these system in the Senate, that is how the votes weapons. turned out. In a letter to the editor the other day, I find it a bit strange that some now- someone quite rightly pointed out that even if government members are whingeing about the this man was mad, if he had turned up with Senate system, when for 13 years they wal- a meat cleaver, a knife or a baseball bat, lowed in it like fat pigs in a big trough, instead of an automatic rifle, he may have saying, ‘Isn’t the Senate wonderful? We can killed only one or two people before he was thwart the government of the day, the Labor stopped. But because he had access to an government, in many of its measures’. We automatic rifle, he killed 35 people and said clearly to the people that if we have a wounded another 15. It was the fact that he majority in the Senate, with the minor parties, had access to an automatic rifle that led to the we will oppose the legislation and defeat it. killing of so many people. And we will defeat it even under the threat of The argument that we hear from the Shoot- a double dissolution. ers Party, and its ilk, that it is not the guns I cannot imagine a more interesting cam- that kill people, it is the people themselves, is paign, as shadow minister for communica- a fallacious argument. I say quite bluntly in tions, than to go these rural and regional areas this place that I hope that John Tingle, who and tell them that if the coalition won a is a member of parliament for the Shooters double dissolution, and got the bill through in Party in New South Wales, recognises what a joint sitting, then on Flinders Island, the his party has wrought on Australia by follow- cost per telephone service would be $4,900. ing these policies. I think that that party, and There would be no way that those people the lobby groups that it represents, have to would not have their charges put up. I would take some responsibility for conducting a love to campaign all around Australia on a political campaign to intimidate politicians so double dissolution bill on the privatisation of that they cannot carry out suitable and proper Telstra. The Labor Party will not run. We will reform of the gun laws of this country. I not buckle at the knees under the threat of a believe that the people of Australia are now double dissolution. We would welcome it on asking all state and federal politicians to do 160 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 something about it. If the states do not take with the people of Australia. Suddenly we are appropriate, reasonable action, then the told that though Bob Menzies could change Australian parliament should, even if it needs the flag in 1953 or 1954 without consulta- a referendum to do it, to ensure that there are tion— decent, tight gun control laws in Australia so Senator Ian Macdonald—What did he that the dreadful events last Sunday at Port change it from? Arthur in Tasmania do not occur again. Senator SCHACHT—He changed it from If we think this is an issue we can avoid, being the red background to the blue back- just listen to the remarks of the relatives of ground. That was a significant change. The the victims. All of them are asking why this flag has changed several times since 1901. I happened and what do we have to do. Listen remember very clearly a painting done from to the heartfelt appeals of those relatives, an account of our troops at Anzac Cove. The particularly the father who lost his wife and flag flying over Anzac Cove was not the two daughters, questioning how someone current flag. It was a flag with a red back- could get an automatic rifle and kill his ground, not a blue background. The soldiers family. That is a question that all parliamenta- who fought so courageously at Anzac Cove rians in Australia have to answer. fought either under the Union Jack or under One last point I will make is that in this a flag that had a red background. very mediocre Governor-General’s speech on When you look at many of the photographs behalf of the new government, a speech taken during the Second World War showing lacking vision, substance, and any indication the places where our soldiers fought, the of what sort of Australia we should have, soldiers either fought under the Union Jack— there was one interesting proposal which is, and my father certainly did as a serviceman of course, to establish a constitutional conven- in the Royal Australian Air Force in the tion to talk about the issue of the republic and Middle East—or under an Australian flag that related matters. I hope that when we get the had a red background. Those things were detail of that, we can see that it is a fair changed by an act of parliament. The flag was dinkum convention which can debate the not changed by a plebiscite. While I do not in issue. I know, Mr Acting Deputy President, any way disagree that if there is going to be that you, personally, will be keen to partici- a change to the Australian flag there should pate in such a convention, because you are be some form of plebiscite, I do not want to one of those from the Liberal Party who stood hear the hypocrisy of the government saying up and said quite loudly that you wanted an that it has always been done this way. Australian head of state, and I congratulate We should also remember that the present you for that. flag was basically designed with the Union Another remark I want to speak about Jack in the corner—whatever colour back- concerns legislation to protect the Australian ground—with clear rules to say that it must flag. I find it a bit extraordinary, in one sense, have the Union Jack on it because in 1901 we that we have legislation to indicate that this still saw ourselves as part of the British flag can be changed only by a referendum or Empire, an empire that has long since gone a plebiscite. You cannot do it by referendum into history. (Time expired) because it is not written in the constitution. Debate (on motion by Senator Kemp) That is fine in one sense, but I wish Mr adjourned. Howard had pointed out that, when the law went through to establish the present flag of DISTINGUISHED VISITORS Australia in the early 1950s, it was done by The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT legislation. There was no consultation with (Senator Teague)—Before I call Senator the people of Australia. It was done by an act Kemp, I draw the attention of honourable of parliament. Sir Robert Menzies introduced senators to the presence in the gallery of it. It went through with the support of the former Senator John Coulter and other South then opposition, but there was no consultation Australians. The Senate welcomes you. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 161

Honourable senators—Hear, hear! I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in Hansard. PROPOSED SESSIONAL ORDERS Leave granted. Consideration resumed. The speech read as follows— Ordered that debate be adjourned till 6 May The purpose of this bill is to amend the Hazard- 1996. ous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act CONSIDERATION OF LEGISLATION 1989 to ensure that Australia can discharge its obligations under international instruments relating Senator KEMP (Victoria—Manager of to the control of transboundary movements of Government Business in the Senate) (5.56 hazardous waste. p.m.)—I move: The Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and That the order of the Senate of 29 November Imports) Amendment Bill 1995 was introduced to 1994 providing a deadline for the introduction of the Senate by the former government on 29 June government bills be amended by adding after 1995. At the time of introduction, a small number paragraph (1) the following paragraph: of issues regarding the amendment of the principal act were still unresolved. In order that the progress "(1A) Paragraph (1) does not apply to a bill of the bill not be impeded, it was agreed that these introduced in the Senate or received matters would be further discussed after lodgement, from the House of Representatives and any necessary changes achieved by government within the first two thirds of the total amendment. As a result of subsequent consultation, number of days of sitting of the Senate a number of amendments were proposed and scheduled for the first period of sittings formed part of the bill on which debate was after a general election of the House of commenced and adjourned on the last day of the Representatives." Spring sittings on 1 December 1995. This govern- Ordered that debate be adjourned till 6 May ment notes that the consolidated bill represents the 1996. subject of exhaustive discussions with all interested parties. The package addresses the need to give SESSIONAL ORDERS effect to the relevant international agreements, and Motion (by Senator Kemp)—by leave— also satisfies industry’s need for both certainty and flexibility. After careful consideration of the agreed to: consolidated bill, the government, which supported That the sessional orders which were in force on the bill when it was debated last year, has decided 1 December 1995 apply on Thursday, 2 May 1996 to reintroduce it without further amendment. and Monday, 6 May 1996. The principal act was passed at the time that the Basel Convention was negotiated. At that time the HAZARDOUS WASTE (REGULATION major concern regarding trade in hazardous waste OF EXPORTS AND IMPORTS) related to hazardous waste sent to another country AMENDMENT BILL 1996 for what is termed final disposal, that is for inciner- ation, landfilling or the like. As a result, the princi- First Reading pal act defines waste as material which has been Motion (by Senator Hill)—by leave— rejected as worthless or otherwise falls within the agreed to: ordinary definition of waste. As such it generally does not cover material sent for recovery. In the That the following bill be introduced: a bill for years since the convention was negotiated the an act to amend the Hazardous Waste (Regulation emphasis in international debate has shifted to its of Exports and Imports) Act 1989. coverage of materials which are traded for recovery Motion (by Senator Hill) agreed to: operations; that is, for reclamation of metals or recovery of other useful materials. That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time. Just as the trade in hazardous waste for final disposal led to an active process of transferring the Bill read a first time. environmental costs associated with the generation of hazardous waste from one country to another, Second Reading and in particular from developed to developing Senator HILL (South Australia—Minister countries, so the trade in hazardous waste for for the Environment) (5.58 p.m.)—I table the recovery operations can similarly lead to the transfer of environmental costs in an uncontrolled explanatory memorandum and move: fashion. The Basel Convention was drafted to cover That this bill be now read a second time. both kinds of processes, that is both final disposal 162 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 and recovery operations, and both kinds of process- waste; and by compiling a list of materials for es are included in the convention definitions under which Evidentiary Certificates have been issued, the single term "disposal". The Australian act does the Minister will be able to provide greater certain- not cover a wide range of hazardous wastes from ty to those subject to regulation on what materials which valuable materials are to be recovered; these will be controlled and what will not. This means hazardous wastes have not been rejected as worth- for example, that it will be possible to issue an less or do not fall within the ordinary meaning of Evidentiary Certificate stating that a material such waste. The major purpose of amending the act is to as clean ferrous scrap is not a hazardous waste remedy this discrepancy between our international subject to the act and can be traded without any obligations and our domestic legislation. controls. At the same time, flexibility will be The Basel Convention is the primary international retained to respond to incremental progress in instrument under which trade in hazardous waste international discussions on what materials should is controlled. It is the set of rules for this trade on and should not be controlled. As an example, recent which Australia and the many other countries international discussions suggest that the existence which are parties to the convention have agreed. As of internationally recognised product specifications virtually all of Australia’s trading partners are will be influential in deciding what are and are not either parties to the convention or parties to similar hazardous wastes. The Evidentiary Certificates will sets of rules established by the OECD, it is in not be conclusive, but will be prima facie evidence; Australia’s trade interests, as well as within our and the definitions in the act would remain as the international obligations, to abide by these rules. final means of determining the definitional ques- The interpretation of the convention as expressed tion. In practice, however, the advice of the Techni- in the principal act and with the amendments now cal Group will provide the government with the put forward is in line with the views of other capability of issuing clear guidance on definitional parties to the convention. In the absence of these issues, and should satisfy the needs of those who amendments, Australia will continue to be out of are subject to regulation for a clear understanding step with other Parties in its capacity to give of their obligations under the act. domestic effect to the convention. There are many who would prefer to replace the uncertain Basel definitions with Australia’s own list In accordance with the primary intention of the bill, or set of criteria. To follow that course, however, the object of the act is to be amended to make it would inevitably lead to Australia once again being clear that one of its major aims is to give domestic at odds with the convention and the views of effect to the Basel Convention and other interna- trading partners on what constitutes hazardous tional instruments relating to trade in hazardous waste under the convention. This would risk not wastes. only breach of our international obligations but The definition of hazardous waste now to be could well lead to shipments acceptable under our adopted is aligned with that in the convention. This definitions being rejected at foreign ports, to the will ensure that in future Australia does not find embarrassment, cost and inconvenience of all. itself in breach of the convention by virtue of The convention itself recognises that the hazard having adopted a definition which is at odds with criteria it establishes are in need of further develop- the interpretation of the convention followed by ment. There is provision for the development of others. Nevertheless, the question of definition national tests which would provide greater precision remains central to the operation of the act, and in determining whether a waste is hazardous. That indeed definitional questions remain the subject of provision is included in the relevant Annex to the very active debate in Basel Convention meetings. convention, by reference to which the bill defines In Australia, a high degree of concern has been hazardous waste. Over time the Technical Group expressed because of the uncertainty of the defini- will advise on national tests to establish hazard on tions in the convention. The bill addresses these a more certain basis, taking account of international concerns through the establishment of a process to developments. provide greater practical certainty regarding what Another key concept in the convention now adopt- is and is not a hazardous waste. The bill provides ed into the act is the definition of "environmentally for the establishment of a Technical Group of sound management". The convention requires not scientific and technical experts who will advise the only that an exporting country obtain prior consent Minister on definitional questions. The advice of from the country of import before allowing the this group will be of great benefit in enabling the transboundary movement to proceed, but also that Minister to decide whether he or she believes that the country of export require that the waste to be a material falls within the definition of hazardous shipped is managed in an environmentally sound waste and so is regulated. way in the country of import. The concept of The Minister will have the power to issue Eviden- environmentally sound management of hazardous tiary Certificates which will be prima facie evi- waste is defined in the convention as "taking all dence that a given material is or is not a hazardous practicable steps" to ensure that the hazardous Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 163 waste is managed to protect human health and the List) and these materials may be traded without a environment. The Technical Group will advise the permit provided countries outside the OECD are Minister to assist in determination of what consti- not involved. The provisions are general and can be tutes environmentally sound management and applied to any further Article 11 agreements or whether particular facilities or processes meet the arrangements which Australia enters into. definition. For that reason, it will include people with expertise in scientific and technical, social and The procedures by which the Minister reaches a economic, environmental and public health fields. decision on whether or not a permit should be issued for a transboundary movement have been The concept of environmentally sound management amended, once again to bring the act more closely as set out in the convention replaces the phrase in into line with the convention. Among the changes the principal act "dispose of safely". In the princi- are those ensuring that the notification and consent pal act "dispose of safely" is defined in terms of an procedures established by the convention are fol- outcome, that is hazardous waste is disposed of lowed. Another amends the existing provision that safely provided there is no damage to human health the Minister have regard to the prospect of process- or environment. By contrast, "environmentally ing hazardous waste within Australia rather than sound management" is defined by reference to a allowing export to take place. This is in accordance process, that is, "taking all practicable steps" to with Article 4(2)(d) of the convention which prevent damage to human health or the environ- requires parties to "minimise the transboundary ment. On the other hand, he definition of "dispose movement of hazardous waste of safely" appears to exclude any assessment of effluents and emissions from the disposal process. consistent with the environmentally sound and In practice, pragmatic considerations are likely to efficient management of hazardous waste". The prevail. Within the Basel Convention process intent of this Article is met by requirements that detailed guidelines on what constitutes environ- disposal in Australia must be both efficient and mentally sound management have already been environmentally sound. The intent is that a local drafted, and these will provide the context for the disposal facility must be more than merely an Technical Group’s advice to the Minister. Australia experimental or test facility, and must operate on will put its efforts into ensuring that those guide- a commercial basis. There must be some cost lines are sound. Once again, the need to ensure that effectiveness factor which is brought to bear when our legislation is fully in line with our international the Minister weighs up the pros and cons of local obligations is the overriding consideration in the versus overseas disposal in deciding whether or not changes set out in the bill. a permit should be issued. Under the convention the general rule is that Parties The principal act already provides that there must must not trade in hazardous waste with non-Parties. be appropriate insurance for shipments of hazardous An exception to this is provided for in Article 11, waste before a permit is issued. A new provision whereby Parties may enter into agreements or in the bill allows the Minister to require bonds or arrangements either with other Parties or with non- guarantees in addition to, or instead of, insurance. Parties. These agreements or arrangements can set This recognises that where there is contravention out controls which are different from those pre- of a permit, for one reason or other an insurance scribed by the convention itself, provided those policy may not be paid out, and in an appropriate controls do not reduce the level of environment case a bond would allow the Commonwealth to protection intended by the convention. The main ensure that there was some coverage. In other cases such agreement to which Australia is a party is the insurance may not be available, and a guarantee OECD Decision on Transboundary Movement of would provide the opportunity for a permit to be Hazardous Waste Destined for Recovery Operations issued in such cases. The principal act allows the (the OECD Decision), which regulates trans- sum total of such arrangements (insurance, bonds, boundary movement of hazardous wastes among and guarantees) to be assessed when the Minister OECD countries. comes to a decision. The bill provides explicitly for regulations giving Other procedural amendments are aimed at ensuring effect to such agreements and arrangements, and that the administration of the act proceeds smoothly for those regulations to give domestic effect to and efficiently, and that all convention requirements rules different from those in the convention. The are met. Because the convention itself contains materials covered by the agreements or arrange- detailed rules, it has not been possible to simplify ments may also differ to some extent from those the administrative system beyond a certain point. covered by the convention. Thus the OECD Deci- That is why both the principal act and the amend- sion covers some wastes which are not hazardous ing bill are complex. Where possible and appropri- wastes under the convention and trade in these ate, provision is made for the making of regulations must comply with the controls set out by the Deci- to set out requirements under the act, in order to sion; conversely, the Decision classifies some mat- ensure that its administration will be flexible and erials as non-hazardous waste (the OECD Green responsive to the needs of industry. A detailed set 164 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 of administrative procedures is being developed in The bill has been the subject of extensive consulta- consultation with interested parties, including tions with a variety of groups both inside and industry, and will be complete by the time the outside government. In particular, detailed consulta- amendments are ready to come into force. tions have been held with a Policy Reference Group made up of representatives of industry, The act also addresses a number of aspects of the environment groups, development and co-operation convention which were not picked up in the groups, and unions. State and territory governments original drafting process. One of the most important have also been consulted. An exposure draft of the of these is the issue of transit permits, that is for bill was provided to members of the Reference Australian consent (or its denial) to the transiting Group and to states and territories, and comments of waste from another country on its way to a third have been taken into account in finalising the bill. country for disposal. In the course of the consultations, an issue which There is also explicit provision for more than one has stimulated more discussion than any other is shipment of the same hazardous waste to be the prospect of bans of transboundary movement of covered by a single permit. The convention allows hazardous wastes from developed to developing such a procedure up to a maximum of 12 months, countries. This issue has been the subject of a provided that certain conditions are met and that is decision at the Second Meeting of the Conference now reflected in the bill. of Parties to the Basel Convention in March 1994 (Decision II/12) and an amendment decision at the The current system for recovery of the govern- Third Conference of Parties to the convention in ment’s administrative costs in respect of issuing September 1995 (Decision III/1). This latter permits is unnecessarily inflexible. The bill pro- decision, known as the Ban Amendment, imple- vides for fees to be set in regulations on the basis ments an immediate ban on the export of hazardous of administrative costs of each type of permit. The waste for final disposal from countries listed in Minister has discretion to reduce fees where appro- Annex VII of the convention (parties and other priate. The fee level may not be above the fee states which are members of the OECD and the - currently prescribed in the principal act. EC, and Liechtenstein) to non-Annex VII countries; Penalties under the act have been increased in order and phases out by the end of 1997 and bans from to provide a deterrent to illegal traffic. Prevention that date the export of hazardous waste for recovery of illegal traffic is specifically required by the operations from Annex VII countries to non-Annex convention, and the value of some of the transac- VII countries. In it Explanation of Vote at that tions involved requires that penalties be raised to meeting, Australia said that ". . . it is essential ensure that companies are deterred from failing to Parties have a common understanding of what is comply with the act’s requirements. A new provi- prohibited", and indicated that it would "only sion is that executive officers of companies will be consider ratifying the [ban] amendment when the personally liable for contraventions by companies, work on hazardous characteristics is completed to with the onus of proof resting with the Common- (Australia’s) satisfaction". (The work referred to is wealth—that is, liability will not be automatic. being carried out by the Basel Convention’s Liability for executive officers of companies is an Technical Working Group, and is aimed at clarify- important step in ensuring compliance with the act, ing the wastes covered by the convention.) as it would be difficult for other compliance It is important to note that the bill does not imple- measures to be effective—for example, identifica- ment the Ban Amendment. This government is yet tion of hazardous wastes at the Customs barrier to consider its position on ratification of the when materials leave the country would often be amendment, and before any decision is made on difficult given that hazardous waste cannot readily ratification, the government’s new process for be distinguished from a variety of other materials. treaty-making must be observed. Third party standing under the principal act is The export of wastes for final disposal to develop- already very broad with respect to appeals to the ing countries, however, is not generally regarded as Administrative Appeals Tribunal. Standing under acceptable practice. That is now reflected in the the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act bill. Indeed the bill extends that policy by limiting 1977 has been extended by providing standing for exports for final disposal to any country to excep- Australian organisations and associations which tional circumstances, such as where there is a direct have matters which relate to the act as part of their risk to human health or environment if the waste object or purpose. This will provide further legisla- remains in Australia, or if the wastes are being tive clarity to the standing rules for the purposes of exported for research or testing. Each permit issued the ADJR Act and is an extension of the standing under this provision of the amended act will be rules already recognised in recent cases under other specified in the regulations to ensure that the similar legislation. The standing provisions in the application of the concept of "exceptional circum- bill relate only to persons or organisations living or stances" is transparent and subject to scrutiny by incorporated in Australia. the community. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 165

The extension of the definition of hazardous waste GOVERNOR-GENERAL’S SPEECH from that in the principal act to that in the conven- tion will inevitably result in regulation of a far Address-in-Reply wider range of hazardous wastes than at present. Debate resumed. Studies which have been carried out recently into the range of wastes that may be covered by the The PRESIDENT—Before I call Senator Basel Convention and Australia’s trade in them Stott Despoja, I remind honourable senators suggests that total trade may be somewhere betw- that this is her first speech and I ask that the een $100 million and $200 million each year. The usual courtesies be extended to her. I call vast majority of this takes place with OECD count- Senator Stott Despoja. ries, and is therefore subject to the less rigid cont- rols set out by the OECD Decision. The kinds of Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aust- materials in which we trade with developing count- ralia) (5.59 p.m.)—I rise in this chamber to- ries of our region include spent lead acid batteries, day as the youngest woman ever elected to a metal-bearing wastes such as sludges, slags and federal parliament. It is an honour that I cher- drosses and a miscellaneous range of wastes var- ish but for no longer than it takes other young iously containing metals such as lead or arsenic. women to be chosen by an electorate that has These are the kinds of materials which will be regulated under the amended act. Suggestions that shown it wants true representation of all sec- ferrous and most non-ferrous scrap metal will be tors of our population. I look forward to the caught up under the convention are mistaken. day when I look across this chamber from my In general, the amended act will not cover trade in seat and see such a diversity of faces—young products, mineral ores and concentrates, processed people, old people, different ages, men and minerals and metals, petroleum products, forest women, and the many cultures that make up products including uncontaminated waste paper, our nation, including indigenous cultures— textiles, or materials produced to meet commercial that we no longer have to strive for it. When specifications intended for recycling. The distinc- that time comes I think we will accept that tion between wastes on the one hand, and non- wastes on the other, will be subject to consideration neither youth nor age, any more than being and advice by the Technical Group, and will male or female, black or white, is a virtue in exclude co-products, intermediates and by-products itself, except that it deserves to be represented from the definition of hazardous wastes. The in a system that claims to be representative. Technical Group will also be giving priority to Accepting and including difference with assisting the Minister in determining which of the OECD green listed materials are clearly inside the tolerance and respect is what Australia has scope of the act and which are clearly outside it, shown herself to be all about, and I think we with a view to the Minister’s reflecting this in Evi- are all proud of that. I hope you will consider dentiary Certificates. Consultations with all interest- that what I have to offer is worthy of this ed parties will continue as regulations and support- great chamber and that what I have to say is ing administrative arrangements are developed. of more interest than my footwear, which the Bilateral discussions between Australia and our media seems to notice so frequently. The truth developing-country trading partners make it clear is that last year I was given very big shoes to that they wish and expect Australia to abide by the fill when I replaced former Senator John rules to which so many of the countries of the world have agreed. A continued failure to do so Coulter after he retired due to ill-health. I am may lead to retaliatory reaction by these countries, pleased to say that Dr Coulter is in the gallery which could threaten trade far more seriously than today, looking much more robust after sur- the controls required by the convention and now gery. In fact, I served only two days in this established by this bill. It is time for Australia to place before the federal election when the give effect to the obligations it has taken upon electors of South Australia showed great itself, just as the vast majority of its trading partners have done. confidence in my party, giving me a quota in my own right and saving me from the fate of I commend the bill to the Senate. being the shortest serving senator. Ordered that further consideration of the John Coulter’s eight years in this parliament second reading of the bill be adjourned until will be remembered for many things: his the first day of the spring sittings 1996, in negotiation of the ethanol package, his time accordance with the order agreed to on 29 as leader during a period of consolidation for November 1994. the Australian Democrats, his staunch defence 166 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 of public funding for the CSIRO and his com- are used to prevent another such massacre. I mitment to research and development. He express my deepest sympathies for all those remains one of Australia’s most committed suffering personal loss as a result of that environmentalists and I look forward to dreadful event. continuing his work, be it fighting for an end If I can speak at all for the youth of this to uranium mining and its export, reforming country it is to say that we want to respect our constitution to include an environmental our institutions and our leaders and we want power, or highlighting our threatened species, to pursue change that makes individuals free a cause many of you will have become more and able to pursue their hopes and dreams familiar with over the Easter break—that is, whatever their circumstances. We want assuming your chocolate bilby made it respect for our land and sea, the rivers and through staff security checks. sky of this great country. We want our envi- I thank John for his wisdom and his sup- ronment cared for and protected. For this, too, port. It was during his time as leader that he we look towards legislation to draw all Aus- took a chance by employing me as a research- tralians into a shared determination that er. I was very young, but fresh from campus Australia shall be a healthy continent, its and fuelled by a desire for social reform. I beauty and its life-giving forces sustained was given responsibility for the education, forever. training and youth portfolios, areas dear to my This philosophy underpins the Australian heart and ones I also gladly act as the spokes- Democrats. We are committed to the notion person for today. It was through this work of intergenerational equity—the notion that that I discovered not only the wonders of this we have a responsibility to promote fairness chamber but the many opportunities there are not only within current generations but be- to effect change through the parliament and tween one generation and the next. It is this law making. concept of ecological sustainability, combined We live in a time where legislation is with the Democrats’ commitment to social greatly affecting destinies. Equal opportunity justice and democracy, that made me join a legislation and sex discrimination laws have political party. I bring to the parliament the changed lives for the better without dampen- values of that party and values that have been ing the fierce individualism that Australians formed in the late 20th century, an education wish to maintain. I think the native title enhanced or limited by decisions made in this package has the potential to go the same way parliament and the experiences of a peer towards righting institutionalised and ancient group and my parents, which reflect contem- wrongs in the relations between indigenous porary challenges. and non-indigenous Australians. It seems natural to me to want to be a part of this I am part of a multicultural generation, born process—one that puts into laws the nation’s in Adelaide to Shirley Stott and Mario best aspirations of fairness and decency and Despoja, hence my name. I have spent nearly also fosters decent dealings between people. all my life in the state that I represent, apart Some of the best, if not all, changes for the from a brief period in Canberra when I better in Australian society have been initiated attended Canberra Boys Grammar as part of or supported by laws of this parliament. a co-educational experiment. That the school is boys only today suggests that the experi- I should say that at this time of national ment failed. grief and overwhelming loss of life in Tas- mania, Australians need no reminding that the Senator Boswell—No-one else could do first duty of government is to maintain and that. secure public safety. Whatever we considered Senator STOTT DESPOJA—It has not the major issues to be in advance of this dampened my enthusiasm for taking on male- session, I think what happened on Sunday dominated institutions based in Canberra. My afternoon in Port Arthur must change our pri- mother is my enduring role model. She took orities. We must ensure that any legislative on the male-dominated institution of journal- powers we have and all our wisdom and will ism while raising two children. It is her Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 167 experiences that have given me insight to the political involvement, beginning as it did in many problems that face single mothers in our secondary school with involvement in the community, just as her severe deafness has State Council of Students and International taught me literally to speak up. On that note, Youth Year activities. To paraphrase Sir I would like to acknowledge that we have a Winston Churchill’s advice to his son: politics hearing loop system here for people who are is like piano playing; the earlier you start, the hearing impaired. I hope we do not have to better. wait too long before our parliamentary broad- My political awakening came as a student casts of question time are subtitled so that we at the University of Adelaide. I am part of can actually make the workings of parliament ‘Generation HECS’, that group of graduates more accessible to the 11 per cent of the who have accumulated debt for no other population who are hearing impaired. reason that their decision to broaden their Recently I addressed a women’s group that knowledge. One former minister, when he my mother had spoken to the year I was born, heard that I was the Australian Democrats’ except in 1969 so appalled were some women higher education spokesperson, and shadow- at my mother’s intention of being a working ing his portfolio area, said, ‘Trust me to get mother that they walked out in disgust, but the former student activist.’ not before predicting that her child would be But I covet this portfolio, not simply as a a delinquent. I am not sure whether politics former campus president, but as someone who qualifies as delinquency, but it is a sign of is unshakeably committed to the belief that progress that 26 years later her daughter can education is a right and that education, be it address that same women’s group, as a primary, secondary or tertiary, is a community member of the federal parliament, without too resource. many forecasts of doom and gloom. In 1974 tertiary fees were abolished and But we still have a long way to go in our that opened up our tertiary institutions, chal- society before women have equality with lenging their unspoken privilege and increas- men. I am glad to say that South Australia ing access for traditionally under-represented has led the way in legislative reform for groups, such as women, disabled people, women. And, of course, I belong to a political people from differed socio-economic back- party that has the best record when it comes grounds, as well as Aboriginal and Islander to women’s representation. Not only that, we people. But that legacy of the Whitlam era have achieved what no-one else has done, and was under threat when I arrived on campus in that is elected a female leader, a tradition we the late 1980s. Policy changes by the federal have continued with the fine leadership of government aligned education with economic Senator Cheryl Kernot. objectives and students were designated Even though my state may have been the consumers to justify the re-imposition of fees first place in the entire world to grant women in a new form—the higher education contribu- the right to vote and the right to stand for tion scheme. parliament in 1894, today only 20 per cent of The Democrats were, and remain, the only our elected representatives to the federal party to recognise that the concept of students parliament are women. In fact, Parliament as consumers is a distortion. In undertaking House, as you all know, has a glass ceiling— their studies, students not only seek qualifica- literally, as if to emphasise this political tions to assist with employment, but are also difficulty for women. broadening their political, cultural and social I would like to pay tribute to my colleagues horizons. and acknowledge the presence in the gallery Education offers empowerment. It is one of my mother, my friends, family, party way that individuals can affect their own members, and staff members and also ack- destinies. And those people who protest nowledge the life-long support of my brother against disincentives to education, such as Luke and my godmother Heather Duncan. A fees and loans, should not be told simply to lot of people have supported and fostered my ‘get a job’. Nor should young people strug- 168 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 gling to find work in today’s workforce be reveal that over 80 per cent of secondary told by the media, or anyone else, to ‘get a school students want to know more about the haircut’. electoral and political processes. Mr President, it is often said that some Civics education will go some way towards cultures have a special respect for the aged. addressing this but we have a responsibility. I think our society has a special fear of the We have to ensure that young people’s issues young. They are so often stigmatised as lazy, are addressed and that they are drawn into unappreciative of parents, easily lured to this process, the process that so affects their drugs, and uncaring about their country, their destinies. history and their language. I think we need to The priority for any government must be ask whether some people, perhaps no longer the creation of jobs for young Australians— categorised as young, are allowing themselves long-term, sustainable jobs—not the ‘McJobs’ to repeat atavistic fears that have no founda- that Douglas Coupland talks about in Genera- tion in reality. tion X, which he defines as ‘low-skilled, low- valued and low-paid jobs’. No group in society has been more consis- tently subject to structural change and its Employment growth needs a healthy econ- cruel and cutting edge, and for a longer omy, but an economy cannot stay healthy in period, than the young. I do not underestimate the long term without us making sure that we the pain of older workers whose jobs have use our national assets—our environment, our disappeared nor devalue the struggle of savings—in a sustainable way. We must link women to find their role in the work force, employment creation with environmental but often young people feel defeated before protection, something the Democrats have they even start out and, as they experience the long recognised. We have pushed for a long hardship of disappearing jobs, they are derid- time for jobs in sustainable and future indus- ed as dole bludgers and layabouts. tries, such as high technology fields, value- added manufacturing, and the fast-growing For four years I have conducted the Demo- environmental industries. This will ensure crats’ Youth Poll, the only survey by a politi- continuing quality of life, both now and cal party that gives young people a chance to extending to all future generations of Austral- express their views on a range of topics— ians. employment, education, sex, drugs and rock It is an exciting time to be a member of the ‘n roll. The Youth Poll paints a very different federal parliament as we debate questions picture of young Australians. It shows a very central to our nation’s future and to how we caring generation—caring about employment will be seen in the next millennium. As co- prospects and concerned about their families chair of the South Australian Republican and teenage suicide levels. They are anxious Movement, I look forward to being part of a to be a part of decision making processes and movement that involves all Australians in its determined—absolutely determined—to ens- discourse, especially those who are among the ure that the environment is not further degrad- strongest supporters of the move to a repub- ed. Perhaps even the vilified Paxton young lic—young people. The republican debate also people care more about the big picture—the offers us the opportunity to assess our demo- nation, their future—than some media will cratic institutions and their fitness. ever allow us to know. We can afford to feel proud of the fact that However, it is true that young people show we live in one of the longest continuous disdain for politicians and are cynical about democracies in the western world. But this the political process. The Youth Poll shows does not mean we should not seek to update that only 1.5 per cent of young people trust or review our democratic systems. We should us. Research may show that a majority of reform our constitution to reflect contempo- young people do not know that we have a rary challenges, to recognise prior ownership, constitution or believe that Jim Bolger is a to refer to Australia’s natural and geographic professional surfer, but our own Senate stand- heritage and to enshrine in all states the ing committee reports into active citizenship bicameral system of parliament. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 169

Increasingly, Australians look to the upper The address by His Excellency the house as a check on executive power, just as Governor-General yesterday sets out a blue- they rely on the Democrats as their parlia- print for Australia’s advancement, a direction mentary watchdog. Our role is about much that the Liberal Party has been working to- more than ensuring accountability. The role wards in the past decade and one which quite of the Senate is not only to keep the govern- obviously the majority of Australians enthusi- ment honest but also to give the government astically share. The mandate given to the a few ideas as well. The role of this chamber Liberal Party and the coalition generally has changed over time. We no longer operate indicates that Australians want a change—a as a states house but have refined our respon- change for the better. The Governor-General’s sibility as a genuine and deliberate house of speech set out the change that the new gov- review, a house in which I think the views of ernment will be bringing to Australia’s direc- the populace are more fairly reflected and tion. represented. This role will no doubt come under the spotlight in the coming long months Various minor politicians and so-called and will confirm what many of us here political experts and commentators have been already believe—especially Democrats: that arguing about mandates. But the facts are the real action takes place on the red leather quite clear. At the most recent opportunity benches. I am honoured to take my place on that the people had to express their choice of these benches today and I thank honourable parliamentarians and policies, they elected the senators for their indulgence. coalition with an absolute majority of 45 seats in the lower house, the House of Representa- I hope that before I leave this place young tives, and, significantly, with 50 per cent of people will no longer be unrepresented in this senators. I emphasise that when people talk chamber or in the other place. I hope that I about the role of the Senate and whether can make a contribution to help bring that mandates have or have not been given. A t about. I am aware of how big an aim this is the last election, 50 per cent of elected sena- and how modest the talents I bring, but if tors were from the Liberal and National hard work can do it then I shall make that parties. In each state, the Liberal Party contribution. Thank you. achieved three senators, except in New South Honourable senators—Hear, hear! Wales and Queensland where the National Party achieved one each to join two Liberals. Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queensland) The Senate result in Queensland was the best (6.18 p.m.)—I start by congratulating Senator ever result for the Liberal Party with, for the Stott Despoja on a most interesting and very first time in a genuine three-party state, obviously well researched first speech. I say the Liberal Senate team achieving more votes in passing that some of the despair she exudes than any other party. for young people is really a result of the last decade or so of Labor rule. A lot of that In a passing reference, I want to dispel despair arises from the inability of young some of the inaccurate statements made by people to obtain employment. Under a new the Democrats and, curiously, most of the government I look forward to a situation media. The Democrats did not achieve in where young people are able to get employ- Queensland a quota in their own right and ment in much the same way as I was able to had to again rely on—surprise of all surpris- when I left school. When I left school—I was es—the preferences of the Labor Party to get young once—I was able to choose between their candidate elected. So there we go again. four jobs that were offered to me. That is the The Labor Party were supporting their mates. sort of thing that has been unheard of for 11 At least they are all sitting together on the or so years of Labor mismanagement. I am other side now. The Labor Party ensured the sure that under the new government young election of a Democrat candidate who could people will again have a hope for the future not get a quota in her own right. I am happy and will be able to obtain meaningful and to say that the Democrat candidate just pipped rewarding employment. the third Liberal candidate, Ms Debbie 170 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Kember, who would have been and who will faith in Frank Tanti, starting in the days when be at some time in the future an excellent he ran in an unwinnable Labor ward in the representative in this chamber. city council election—and lost it by only 89 But it should also be pointed out that, in votes, I might add—has been justified. spite of comments about the huge increases My 10 year goal to turn the north of Aus- and gains made by the Democrats, the Demo- tralia into a Liberal bastion has at last started crat candidate this time received much the to show dividends. When I first entered same sort of vote as she received six years parliament six years ago I was the only ago, so there has been no increase in Demo- Liberal north of the Brisbane suburb of crat support in Queensland. The Democrat Aspley in either the state or federal parlia- candidate again had to rely on Labor Party ment. Queensland, unlike most other states, is support to get herself elected. a very decentralised state with a great number The Liberal Party and the coalition were of federal and state electorates north of the given an overwhelming mandate and support capital city. It is a matter of some pride to quite unprecedented in Australia’s political me—and, I must say, relief as I now have history. In Queensland we have a situation four colleagues to do the state and federal where only two of 26 seats are now held by work which previously fell to my office—that the Labor Party. Two out of 26—they still do there are now four other Liberal parliamenta- hold two—are held by the Labor Party. I want rians in the north. This is not said just be- to welcome to parliament for their contribu- cause of pride in the political party to which tion to Australia’s direction the 10 new I belong; it is said more in the knowledge that Liberal members from Queensland. these members are members of a party that supports initiative and enterprise, that believes I am particularly pleased to record that in freedom and choice; a party in which they Australia’s northernmost electorate and the will give representation both as part of a electorate perhaps furthermost from Can- Liberal government and as individuals, to the berra—one which borders our closest neigh- constituents it serves. bouring nation—is now for the very first time firmly in the hands of the Liberal Party with It is impossible for me in the short time the election of Mr Warren Entsch to the available to mention my regard for my new electorate of Leichhardt. Following the mag- colleagues who have joined us in this place nificent win in the state election by Lyn representing my state. I should, however, Warwick in Barron River, the Liberal Party mention that Peter Slipper’s win was quite has really consolidated its position in northern remarkable and well justified. The wins by and regional Australia. In the electorate of Andrea West, Teresa Gambaro, Elizabeth Herbert my good friend and now colleague, Grace—all in difficult seats—Kay Elson and former Townsville city councillor Peter the return of Kathy Sullivan—the latter two Lindsay, swept the floor in what was previ- in the Gold Coast region—show that the ously a traditional Labor seat, particularly Liberal Party is a party of equality where since the boundaries have now contracted to people advance and achieve success because encompass basically just the cities of Towns- of their abilities, not because of their gender. ville and Thuringowa. In fact, all four new Liberal female members On election night it was not even exciting defeated very high profile ministers and office in Townsville. From the very first booth that holders in the previous government. came in it was quite clear that Peter Lindsay I am also more than delighted to see joining had won a remarkable victory. This follows us in parliament as well my good friends the stunning win by the Liberal Party in the Graeme McDougall, previously with a mag- Mundingburra by-election that is now part of nificent track record as a councillor in the Australia’s political history and which has Brisbane City Council; Gary Hardgrave, a elevated my friend and colleague, Frank very capable young person with a great Tanti, to being one of the most recognised command of politics and government; and politicians in Australia. I am pleased that my Tony Smith and Mal Brough, both young men Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 171 of great enthusiasm and with real skills and Party in the election is reflected in govern- experience that they will bring to this parlia- ment. I think that it is time to revisit a con- ment. I am pleased to see them all joining us. sumption tax similar to the goods and services To all my other colleagues who were re- tax proposed three years ago. elected—Bill Taylor, Alex Somlyay, John I acknowledge the honesty, courage and Bradford and David Jull—my congratulations. great contribution that John Hewson made to I should also congratulate those of my the debate. I only regret that John is not with Queensland colleagues elevated to the minis- us at the moment to be part of the new try in the new government. I am particularly government of Australia. delighted to see John Moore in a senior position where he deserves to be. He is a man For the north, which has a significant export with so much talent who will make an enor- focus, the introduction of a goods and ser- mous contribution to Australia’s wellbeing, vices tax with its attendant exemption from particularly in the business area. To me, John tax on all imports into exports and business is the pathfinder for the Liberal Party in would be of real value. Queensland in recent times and the one who Perhaps the one thing that makes me such has brought the party from practical oblivion a strong supporter of the GST is the impact through to the success it now enjoys. His that such a tax would have on petrol prices, guidance, influence, encouragement and which would benefit regional Australia tre- support has been quite magnificent. mendously. The reduction of excise from I am also very pleased to see my Senate around 35c per litre to a GST of about 7c or colleague and friend John Herron achieving 8c per litre, which would follow on from the portfolio ranking, taking on the difficult and introduction of a GST, would have an incal- at times contentious role that he has been culably beneficial impact on rural and region- allocated in the ministry. It is good to see al Australia, particularly in North Queensland, Warwick Parer there in the ministry attending and would at last give regional Australia a to things that he is very familiar with. chance to compete equally with those cousins of ours living in the most comfortable con- I should also at this time make reference to fines of the capital cities and in the golden the very significant and little known contribu- triangle of Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and tion that the Queensland President of the Canberra. Liberal Party, Bob Tucker, has made to the success of the party in the last couple of The implementation of a form of GST years. He, Jim Barron and his team at head- would have a very beneficial effect on the quarters should be justifiably proud of the cost of business inputs, would increase results they have achieved. Australia’s competitiveness overseas and would lead to greater production and, there- The new government has a huge task before fore, greater employment. For a dynamic it. For my area in the north of Australia those region like North Queensland all of these challenges are enormous and will require a outcomes would be of significant benefit. great deal of consideration and understanding. The Liberal Party now holds more seats in I am pleased to see that the government is, rural and regional Australia than any other in accordance with its election promises, political party, holding 31 rural and regional intending to introduce reform of the labour seats to the National Party’s 18, Labor’s five market, which will give Australian employees and the Independents’ two. I will ask leave higher wages based on higher productivity later to incorporate in Hansard a statement within a framework of guaranteed minimum regarding regional and rural representation in standards. I am also pleased to note that the parliament. compulsory unionism will be abolished and It is significant that, except in New South effective sanctions against secondary boycotts Wales, the Liberal Party now holds in every will be restored. state the most rural and regional seats. It is In light of this move, I would like to think essential that the support given to the Liberal it is incumbent upon the sugar industry in 172 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

Australia to revisit the closed shop deal cern is expressed about the capacity of their between the AWU and the Queensland sugar institutions to meet Commonwealth targets. industry which is in effect compulsory union- In attempting to bring Queensland up to ism within the sugar industry. parity with the national average, the Comm- Our proposals to reduce the complexity and onwealth target for 1998 was based on 88 compliance costs of the taxation system, places per 1,000 head of 17- to 34-year-old particularly in the capital gains tax and fringe population. This target was based on popula- benefits tax areas, will be welcomed particu- tion estimates for 1993 but the 1995 figure larly by small business on whom those taxes shows that the original estimates have been have a disproportionate impact. exceeded by about 29,000, of which Queens- land accounts for more than half. If this trend The strengthening of work-based training continues, Queensland will still not catch up opportunities for young people through a with the national average even with the modern apprenticeship and traineeship system additional places already promised. All addi- will help provide real and meaningful jobs for tional places have been allocated in Queens- young people and at the same time will land to regional areas, particularly the new ensure that Australia has a qualified and campuses at Cairns and the Sunshine Coast trained pool of workers in areas where there and in others planned in Logan City, Ipswich is a particular need. Older employed Austral- and Hervey Bay. If, therefore, the Common- ians will continue to have access to labour wealth government is obliged to cut higher market programs, assistance and support education funding to meet Labor’s black hole services. I am pleased to see that regional and of $8 billion in the budget, that reduction community employment councils will be should be achieved by an equal percentage formed bringing together business leaders, reduction across all states, not by an arbitrary education and training providers and represen- removal of the growth funding for Queens- tatives of the wider community to more land. effectively link the training of unemployed people with real jobs and with a regional In the Governor-General’s speech, the development focus. government gave prominence to a factor that in the past has been conveniently overlooked I am also pleased to see that regional by bureaucrats and legislators whose horizons development will figure in projects designed never seem to extend beyond the leafy sub- to enhance employment opportunities in the urbs of Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and regions of Australia. Canberra. The government very clearly recog- There needs to be a real attack on youth nises that the nation continues to depend on unemployment, on the alienation of youth and the natural human resources of rural and particularly on youth suicide, which is tragi- regional Australia for a major proportion of cally prevalent in rural areas. I am pleased to its wealth. It is therefore essential that govern- see the government’s emphasis in this regard. ment services continue to apply in these areas and that regional Australians are not, as they I specifically note the government has made were under Labor, treated as second class a strong commitment to equality of opportuni- citizens compared with those living in the ty for all students in education. It is timely at capital cities. this stage to reiterate the case accepted by the previous government after pressure from the The government’s commitments to restore then opposition that Queensland should the nation’s land and water resources infra- receive a quantum of university places which structure and enhanced primary industries by would see my state reach the national average removing impediments to international com- by 1998. I know there is opposition from petitiveness are welcomed and must be pur- southern states but Queensland is the only sued vigorously. state to record an increase in the applications I am pleased to see that Labor’s ridiculous, for higher education while in New South illogical and insupportable three mines policy Wales and South Australia particularly con- will be removed and that new mines will be Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 173 approved subject to strict environmental, tourism is concerned, I know that the heritage and nuclear safeguards. I do not want government’s policies will enhance tourism to sound like having a bad case of ‘NIMBY’ and our export capacity in that regard in the but at this stage I do want to flag my opposi- years ahead. tion to any uranium mining in the headwaters North Queensland and generally northern of the Burdekin River unless all of us who Australia have a significant and special depend on its water are shown that there is no interest in both defence and trade. I urge the possibility of any impact on the quality of our government to concentrate its defence prepar- water. edness in northern Australia. The defence Our historic and comprehensive environ- forces situated in Townsville, Cairns and ment and sustainable agriculture programs Darwin in particular are a great example of will be of great significance to Australia. I the professionalism of our armed forces and have every confidence in the new Minister for also bring a great sense of community and the Environment (Senator Hill), who has economic benefit to the areas in which they already shown a refreshing change to the way are located. environment matters will be handled. Senator I am always conscious that those of us in Hill is prepared to consult and listen to the the north live closer to the almost 200 million sensible arguments of all Australians and not people in Indonesia than we do to the majori- be captive of any particular group. I congratu- ty of Australians resident in the southern late Senator Hill on the work he is already capitals. It is well recognised that Australia’s doing in that regard and also on both his future is in the north. Its proximity to the election and his appointment as Leader of the burgeoning markets of South-East Asia, Government in the Senate. We are indeed particularly to Indonesia and Malaysia, means fortunate in the Senate that that type of that trade will continue to have an important leadership is available, leadership that will and ever expanding focus in the north. ensure the proper and decorous workings of Northern industry and exports have achie- this chamber and the speedy progress of ved great successes without the indirect and government business through the Senate. subtle assistance given to southern industries I should also, in passing, pay tribute to the and exports. That success will continue. I urge great work of my friend and colleague, the government not to be overwhelmed by the Senator Rod Kemp, in guiding our environ- voices in the south for artificial support ment policy through the election. I look mechanisms for exports which naturally forward to the resolution of the Labor emanate from the north of Australia. government’s politically motivated interfer- All Australians should have equality of ence in the Queensland government’s approv- opportunity. Divisions based on gender, race al of a tourist facility at Cardwell. It is essen- or colour should become a thing of the past tial that our unique natural environment is in Australia under the new government. available to all to experience and enjoy. Unfortunately, the Labor government, despite Tourism is Australia’s fastest growing what I will concede may have been its best export industry. It attracted $10.6 billion in intentions, has created the opposite impact. I expenditure from foreign visitors in the 1993- look forward to ensuring that Aboriginal and 94 year, according to BTR, and another $36.3 Islander Australians have the same opportuni- billion from Australian residents. Tourism’s ties in health, education, housing and employ- share of domestic output is estimated at about ment as all other Australians do. 5.5 per cent. It employs directly 535,600 As one who lives in a part of Australia people, or about 6.9 per cent of the work where many Aboriginal and Islander people force. Every effort must be made by the reside, and as one who has during the last six government to support this industry and to years spent a considerable amount of time in reverse current impediments on the industry’s the Aboriginal and Islander communities, I growth. Coming from North Queensland, look forward to the time when indigenous which is the leading area as far as Australia’s people are able to maintain their place and 174 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 traditions in an Australia free from racial or little comment in this debate, apart from social conflicts. In my days at school, Abo- saying—and re-emphasising—that our propo- riginal and Islander people were treated as sals in relation to Telstra were very clearly equals. I look forward to the day when this enunciated before the election. again occurs. Senator Kernot—And they didn’t like The Liberal Party has always maintained a them; Australians didn’t like them. commitment to the High Court’s decision on Senator IAN MACDONALD—They did native title. However, it is without question like it, Senator Kernot. I have to explain to that the native title legislation, bullied through you again that we have a 45-seat majority in parliament by the Labor Party—more as a the lower house, and in the upper house we political exercise than for any other purpose— achieved an election of 50 per cent of the is quite unworkable. It will be a major senators. Yet you choose not to listen to that. achievement of this government when native Fifty per cent of the senators were elected to title legislation is dealt with in a way which the Liberal and National parties. That is makes the High Court’s decisions workable significant thing to remember when people and fair to all concerned. over the course of the next few weeks start In accordance with its election promises, the rabbiting on—if I may use that phrase—about Liberal and National parties will be consider- mandate. ing constitutional reform through forums, It is quite clear, as I mentioned and have discussions and consultations. I have always again emphasised, that the Australian Demo- had the view that Australia will eventually crats again are showing their involvement become a republic but that it will do so under with the Labor Party. My colleague Senator a Liberal government rather than under a Kernot, who is sitting in the chamber, should Labor government. The Australian public well be grateful to the Labor Party—it has would never trust Labor with any tampering been shown that she is—because she has been with our current constitution. I believe that, elected only on its preferences. under a more moderate, sensible and consulta- tive government, the majority of Australians Senator Kernot—You are wrong. will have confidence that our new system of Senator IAN MACDONALD—That is parliament will be one which maintains the correct. Have a look through them. I had a best and, I might say, the most of our tradi- look through them before I came in, Senator tional form of government, but with some Kernot. It is a pity that I do not have the change perhaps to the head of state. results or I would table them. The full results Whilst I suppose I could be classed as from Queensland showed that Senator Kernot being mildly in the republican camp, I have was getting there. She did not get a quota in no such equivocation about our flag. Our her own right, but she was getting there—200 nation’s flag is our nation’s flag and must from all the odd groups on the left, 100 here, forever remain that. It must not be changed at 100 there. But she was nowhere near the the whim of any government to accord with quota. What happened? The Labor Party what is trendy in the advertising or marketing kindly allocated all their preferences to arena at any particular era of our history. The Senator Kernot, and, bang, she was able to government’s proposals to ensure that the flag scrape into the sixth spot in Queensland. cannot be altered without the people’s approv- If you call that a mandate, if you call that al is a significant step. I am sure it will mean anything except being part of the Labor Party that our flag will remain forever. group, then you deserve the sort of response I am very pleased to support the address-in- that the Democrats received from the Austral- reply motion to the Governor-General’s ian public. They received a very low vote. As speech moved by my colleague Senator I mentioned, and again repeat, the vote that Teague. The amendment moved by the Leader the Queensland candidate got in this elec- of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator tion— Faulkner) is a churlish one. It really deserves Senator Kernot—It was the highest ever. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 175

Senator IAN MACDONALD—Was much he is on the backbench and why Prime the same as you got six years ago, Senator Minister Howard has overlooked him. For six Kernot. So much for your brilliant enlightened years in this chamber, we have heard nothing leadership. So much for the great support you but bile and vitriol from you against the brought to the Democrats. Your vote is within Australian Democrats. You did not even have 0.3 per cent of what you got six years ago. If the graciousness today to restrain this bile and you call that a mandate, I do not know where vitriol straight after the first speech of our you get your reasoning from. newest senator. Such is the level of it. Is this It is significant that in this election not only a reflection of the new parliamentary stand- did we get that huge result in the lower house ards of the government? I see it as the same but in the Senate—and this has got to be old business. I guess one day Senator Ian emphasised—the Liberal and National parties Macdonald’s deep and dark psychological got 50 per cent of the senators on a very clear reasons for this pathological hatred of the and explicit policy. That is, I think you will Democrats, and me in particular, might be concede, Madam Acting Deputy President, explained. But from day one, not knowing almost unprecedented in Senate elections Senator Ian Macdonald before I came to this around Australia. It has been a magnificent place— result for the Liberal and National parties in Senator Ian Macdonald—I hate to stop the Senate, a chamber where usually the vote Senator Kernot in the midst of this very goes everywhere. The Democrats, I think, lost interesting speech— one and gained one, but it was all at the Senator KERNOT—Oh, go ahead. expense of the Labor Party. The people of Australia quite clearly understand that it does The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT not matter who you vote for. Whether you (Senator WEST)—Are you rising on a point vote for the Democrats or Labor, it is all the of order, Senator Macdonald? same, because they have the same policies. Senator KERNOT—What do you— I should indulge myself in the last couple Senator Ian Macdonald—Don’t panic. I of minutes, if I can, by just pointing out the am desperately keen to hear your speech. I pettiness of the Democrats. Have a look at the just want to confirm that I had leave to Queensland card that they registered. Their incorporate these documents. preferences went to everyone except us, I Opposition members interjecting— might mention. They started at the top of the thing and went down. They went to 15, 16, Senator Ian Macdonald—I did. I did say. 17. They got to the Nationals—it was Senator Neal—There is no objection, but Boswell. They got to 28, 29, 30. They got I do note that you did leave out the central through them all and got to the Liberal Party. coast of New South Wales. Then they counted from the bottom and went The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT— upwards. So I got the last vote and I am very Would you like to do it at the end of Senator proud of that. It is a badge of honour. The Kernot’s speech, please, so that we do not pettiness of it is just incredible. I am very disrupt her. pleased to announce that I am going to talk Senator KERNOT—We all know exactly about that as often as I can. I shall wear that why Senator Ian Macdonald rose at that time. as a badge of courage. I thank Senator Kernot I will just say it all again, Senator Ian Mac- for letting me know that I point out the donald. One day, the deep and dark psycho- undeniable truth about her relationship with logical reasons for your pathological hatred of the Labor Party and that is that they are just the Australian Democrats, and me in particu- part of the team. She does not like me saying lar, may be explained. It is absolutely a it. She went to that pettiness to make sure that mystery to us. We did not know each other at I got the absolutely last vote. (Time expired) all before we came into this chamber, and Senator KERNOT (Queensland—Leader from day one we were subjected to what I of the Australian Democrats) (6.48 p.m.)— think is totally based on ideological prejudice Senator Ian Macdonald’s speech shows why and never opening your ears to listen. How- 176 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 ever, one of the real highlights of the federal that had anything to do with Senator Ian election campaign in Queensland for me was Macdonald’s physical presence in Queensland. Senator Ian Macdonald’s own example of Senator Ian Macdonald—I have no idea ‘nimby’: Cheryl Kernot, not in my backyard. what you are talking about. He put out a press release saying that his mission, specially designated to him in the Senator KERNOT—I think you should go federal election campaign, was to eliminate back and look, Senator Macdonald. Queens- Cheryl Kernot from the Senate. Well, Senator land was the only state where the Liberal Ian Macdonald, you failed spectacularly. For Party did not give me as a Democrat 100 per the record, I got the highest ever Democrat cent of preferences in the Senate. vote in Queensland. However you want to Senator Ian Macdonald—We favoured the distort it, I got the highest ever. Greens. Senator Neal—Did you get a quota? Senator KERNOT—I don’t care who you Senator KERNOT—No, I did not get a gave them to. quota. I wish I had but I did not. Senator Ian Macdonald—A far better party than yours. Senator Abetz—How many quotas did you get? Senator KERNOT—And we spectacularly outpolled them, didn’t we? Three to one, Senator KERNOT—You know what it is Senator Macdonald. like at the top of the ticket. You could not care less. Senator Macdonald, I think you The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT should go and look at the preference distribu- (Senator West)—Senator Kernot, would you tions all around Australia and see that Demo- like to address your remarks to the chair? It crats were elected substantially on green might reduce the number of interjections. preferences, not Labor Party preferences. I Senator KERNOT—I will try very hard. wonder if you stopped to consider the way You must admit, Madam Acting Deputy that Democrat preferences assisted the elec- President, that I have been very restrained for tion of the Liberal Party candidate in Can- six years. But seeing that Senator Mac- ning. Just don’t be so selective. Don’t let the donald’s mission in life was to eliminate me facts get in the way of a good argument. You from the Senate spurred me on to achieve my always overlook the Democrat practice— highest ever vote in Queensland. So thank Senator Ian Macdonald—Of voting with you, Senator Ian Macdonald. I just want to the Labor Party. point out to Senator Macdonald: bad luck. I was elected, I am here for six years, I am not Senator KERNOT—No, the Democrat bitter and twisted, I am still the leader of the practice of what we call split tickets where we party and I bet I have a better time than you have attempted to be as even-handed to you do on the back bench. as we have been to the Labor Party. I invite Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queens- you to go back and look at every electorate. land)—by leave—I seek leave to have the I wonder why, colleagues, through you, document alluded to earlier incorporated in Madam Acting Deputy President, on the Hansard. Liberal Party preference allocation, I was the only Democrat senator not to receive 100 per Leave granted. cent of Liberal Party preferences. I wonder if The document read as follows— Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 177

REGIONAL AND RURAL REPRESENTATION

LIBERAL (31) NATIONAL (18) LABOR (5) IND (2)

Victoria (12) Ballarat Gippsland Burke (1) Bendigo Mallee (2) Corangamite Flinders Indi McEwen* McMillan* Murray# Wannon (9) NSW (17) Eden-Monaro* Cowper Hunter (1) Calare* (1) Gilmore* Farrer MacArthur* Gwydir Macquarie* Hume Paterson* (5) Lyne New England Page* Parkes Richmond* Riverina (10) Queensland (13) Fairfax Capricornia* Fisher Dawson Forde* Hinkler Groom Kennedy Herbert* Maranoa Leichhardt* Wide Bay (6) Longman (7) Tasmania (4) Bass* Franklin Braddon (2) Lyons (2) Western Australia (5) Forrest Brand (1) Kalgoorlie* (1) O’Connor Pearce (3) South Australia (4) Barker Grey Mayo Wakefield (4) NT (1) NT* (1) * won from ALP # won from NP 178 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996

LIST OF SEATS BY STATE

LIBERAL NATIONAL LABOR IND VIC 9 2 1 NSW 5 10 1 1 QLD 7 6 WA 3 1 1 SA 4 TAS 2 2 NT 1 TOTAL 310 18 5 2 GAIN/LOSS +13 +2 -17 +2 Definition of Regional and Rural seat: More than five per cent of workforce employed in agriculture or over 2,000 sq km. Figures taken from the Australian Electoral Commission "Electoral Atlas 1995" (revised January 1996).

Senator COOK (Western Australia) (6.54 intend in my remarks this evening to criticise p.m.)—Can I just ascertain that Senator Ian some of the aspects referred to in that speech Macdonald has finished all of his interjections as the government’s program for the next for the time being? Before I speak on the three years. address-in-reply, two speeches ago in this chamber we heard the debut speech of Sena- Before turning to the speech, I say that it is tor Stott Despoja of the Australian Democrats. the first appearance by the Governor-General On behalf of the opposition, as I am the first as the Governor-General in this parliament. opposition speaker since that speech, I con- He was appointed to the position of gratulate her on a very fine debut speech. Governor-General by the Keating government at the beginning of this year. I congratulate We observe the comments made, I thought him on his elevation. I think Sir William has uncharitably, by Senator Ian Macdonald proven to be a thoughtful and distinguished following upon her address that the dispiriting member of the High Court and I believe he nature of the youth view of Australia was due will fill the office of Governor-General with to the Australian Labor Party. In fact, I equal distinction. He is, in the view of all understood the senator to actually say that the Australians I believe, an excellent choice. young people of Australia had an inspiring In the last several months Australia has view of the prospects of this country and that, come through what I believe to be a quite in fact, they were pigeonholed into a carica- extraordinary time. A government which, I ture by the media, which had them as a drug- think by fair measure, would be regarded as riddled, disinterested, unemployment prone a successful government has been turned from group. But indeed, their view is much wider office at a time when the Australian economy in the world. is buoyant and where the prospects, particu- Yesterday the Governor-General, Sir Wil- larly for the latter half of this year, are ones liam Deane, opened the 38th parliament of for strong economic growth. It is unusual—in Australia and delivered the opening address. fact, I think, unprecedented—that govern- The tradition is, of course, that in that address ments are defeated in those circumstances. Let he presents an outline of the program for the us look at the details of the Australian econ- coming three years of the government. I rise omy and compare the record of the Labor to speak in the address following that speech government with the record of the previous and to support the amendment moved by the Fraser government, a government in which Leader of the Opposition in this chamber, the now Prime Minister was a Treasurer. On Senator Faulkner, on Telstra. I mean no dis- inspection, you can see that the records, on a respect to the Governor-General, but I do historic Australian national comparison—if Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 179 you like, us, the Labor government of the we have become used to in our previous time, compared to them, the Liberal govern- electoral experience. Indeed, I think that, with ment of the time—show that we had much strong economic performance, the electorate more effective managerial credentials than is more ready to pay attention to issues such they did. If you compare us on a geographical as the ‘it’s time’ factor. That type of approach or global basis—that is, to like economies does count in their minds more than it would elsewhere in the world—our economic per- at other times of economic difficulty. So, in formance was indeed, by that measure too, part, I think the decision was made easier by outstanding. the electors facing to a ‘it’s time’ type of If one compares the records on economic enticement than it would have been had the growth, one sees that the average rate of real economy been in less good shape than it is economic growth during the Labor period of now. office was 3.7 per cent. When Mr Howard The other element of this election that is was Treasurer it was 2.2 per cent. The aver- worthy of noting in this address-in-reply age rate of inflation during the period in speech is, as well, the policies that the oppo- which Mr Howard was Treasurer was 9.8 per sition at the time, now the government, ran on cent whereas under the Labor government it in that election were policies that mirrored in was, on average, 5.3 per cent, and since June many respects the policies of the government 1991 it was on average 2.5 per cent. The rate of the day; that is, the policies of the Labor of inflation at the time Mr Howard last left Party. office as Treasurer in Australia was 11.4 per cent, whereas the rate of inflation when we I remember, graphically and surprisingly, faced the electors early this year was 5.1 per ads being aired in the closing days of the cent. And so the figures go. campaign on, for example, Medicare—an area in which the now government, then opposi- I turn to another key measure: employment. tion, had trenchantly criticised us, the govern- The average number of jobs created per year ment, during 13 years of Labor government during the period of Mr Howard’s incumben- in this country—indicating that, in fact, they cy as Treasurer was 50,199, whereas during had moved to a position in which Medicare, our 13 years of office we averaged on the job one of the defining issues of difference creation front 164,514 jobs per annum. The between the two major parties in this country, average annual growth in employment during was now an issue of no difference. That Mr Howard’s incumbency as Treasurer was obviously means that they a have jumped 0.8 per cent, whereas under us it was 2.9 per from their position of the past—an implicit cent. Unemployment when John Howard left admission that they were wrong in the past office as Treasurer was 10 per cent, whereas and acceptance that we were right; that we the rate when we faced the electors was about have pioneered and engineered significant 8.1 per cent. change in Australian health care delivery and On the measure that most home owners in health care servicing in this country; and that Australia are concerned about—that is, the now they would join us and minimise that measure of home loan interest rates—the difference between us. average home loan interest rate today is Many of the other policy formulations that roughly around 9.7 per cent, whereas when they put were formulations of policy that we Mr Howard left office in 1983 it was 14 per had pioneered too. We have as an outcome of cent, with a strong argument being that the this election—I must say there are a few practical rate, given the cocktail nature of the notable exceptions to those points—a situation loans at the time, was about 18.9 per cent. in which the risks of voting conservative were I make those comparisons for a number of minimised as a deliberate election ploy. Mr reasons. I make them because I want to make Howard was presented to the electors as two observations about this election. The first someone who would not rock the boat, who observation is that I think the modern Austral- would not bring in radical change and who ian electorate is certainly more volatile than would tread softly. It would be pretty much 180 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 business as usual. I think that, as I have said but, nonetheless, to cite a reassuring fact before, no doubt the Australian people take when one says that small business is the rock the view that if the economy is sound they upon which economic growth will be built. If can then risk a change of government. you can encourage the growth of small busi- As well, I think the peculiar outcome of this ness, so too will you encourage the growth of election is that the Liberal-National Party employment. coalition is governing with, essentially, the That is true, but it is also in the field of a Labor mandate and that the Australian people motherhood statement and it does not take us have taken the Liberal-National Party commit- any further. The truth of those assertions, the ment to that mandate at face value. While truth of that propaganda position, really is recognising that fact as an analytical impera- found in the detailed policy prescriptions tive, nonetheless, unfortunately, there are about how the objectives enunciated by those already signs that that faith is being betrayed. soft words are to be realised. Of course, we in opposition, loyal to our task, When one turns to the government’s policy will take every opportunity to point out where platform in that respect, one finds it thin on the mandate has been deviated from. detail and, in fact, contradictory in many As well as those remarks about the most respects, superficial in the extreme, and recent election there are, of course, lessons in patronising of many of the advocates and the outcome for the Labor Party. We are a spokespersons of small business. It takes their party that certainly has retained a vision for words and twists them in a way in which it the future, a flexibility in the application of might appeal on the broad front, without the principles for which we stand so that they being specific to the particular policies and fit the circumstances of the time and a funda- needs of the small business community. I mental commitment to standing up for the want to go through some of those elements of ordinary Australian people in this country. superficiality and contradiction so that I can But the election lessons are lessons of us in illustrate my point by resort to actual exam- defeat, and we will honestly face what those ples and detail. But, before I do, I make a lessons mean to us. We will forge again a couple of threshold observations generally strong bond with the Australian people, and about the economic approach of the govern- we will rekindle the confidence that they have ment as enunciated both in the policy state- in us that enabled us to govern in this country ments before the election and things that they for so long and so successfully. We will come have said since the election. back to power as soon as that will and confi- We have had today, at least by one or two dence is restored. of the speakers from the government, a What troubles me about the present Austral- reference to what they have styled for propa- ian government is their readiness to manipu- ganda purposes—the so-called $8 billion late the arguments, to manipulate the econom- Labor black hole in the budget. Of course, ic outcomes and the expectations of the this is not true in the context in which it is community to suit political ends—to, in fact, now being used as a political slogan. It relates engage in political double speak. For exam- to forward estimates. It relates to a specula- ple, in the field of small business, we have tive possibility. It is, as I said after question had a lot of rhetoric about the importance of time, a situation in which the Treasury notori- small business to the Australian economy. Of ously is conservative about outcomes. Those course, small business is integral to the figures change and will change come budget success of the Australian economy. This is a time, and they will change as the various country in which small business is the most parameters of the macro economy change. common form of business found anywhere, The figures are already different because of and about 80 per cent of business activities the most recent reported figures on inflation conducted in this country are conducted by level outcomes achieved by the policies of what you would define as small business. Labor when it was in office. I do not think Therefore, it is not to provide a great insight this furphy that is being used as the raison Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 181 d’etre for a sweeping axing of government greater reach in service delivery. Chopping services and cutting of jobs in the public out $1 billion of expenditure will mean sector—a reduction in efficiencies in the reducing the ability of a modern government public sector and a withdrawal and reduction to deliver up to the minute services in the of services to people who rely on government best and most effective possible way and to services or industries that work with govern- save other costs elsewhere. It is a cutting off ment—is justified in any way. your nose to spite your face approach. I believe this furphy of this so-called $8 It will also have a massive impact on billion black hole is being used to justify a Australian industry. Australia has the second slash and burn policy which will, in the end, largest IT, information technology, industry in dishonour the political promises made before the Asia-Pacific area. We come in just the election by the then opposition. It will behind Japan and ahead of every other coun- introduce Fightback by stealth and will try in the Asia-Pacific area. That has been undermine its commitments in the Medicare built up because it was nurtured by the former and health field, certainly in the education Labor government with partnerships for field and bizarrely in the field of employment development programs and a whole series of generation. You don’t have to believe all of other things that have helped to build an them; you just have to see the credibility of indigenous Australian information technology some of the changes being foreshadowed, industry. particularly in the employment area. By Government purchasing was used to build cutting employment and employment genera- that industry sector. By chopping out govern- tion programs in order to reduce outlays, one ment services, by refusing to continue with an cuts the ability of the government to help enlightened program of efficiencies generated people find jobs to suit their skills. The by the enabling technology of information government ran to the election on the basis technology, we not only curtail or impair the that it is the party that can create employ- ability of government to give to the taxpayers ment. Now it is talking about cutting the very what they want and what they are entitled to programs that will help deliver that outcome. but also stilt and stunt a major industry sector As well—this is my main point in economic which is important to our future economic terms—the cutting back of government growth and which, if it does not grow apace, programs in the economy as it is poised at the will mean that we will import the technology present time will have a dampening effect on they would have created in Australia from business activity and therefore will start to overseas and blow out our current account slow economic growth. The anticipation is deficit as well. that in the second half of this year we will Let us look at factor F, which is the phar- have strong economic growth. Maybe the maceutical area. We provide a payment to judgment is being made on the government companies that produce pharmaceuticals in side that we can therefore absorb a few hits this country because they sell to the govern- from massive government cuts. Irrespective of ment and we peg the prices so there is no free that judgment, the truth will be that it will market. We pay a bounty to them on the basis slow economic activity and cause more that they locate their research and develop- unemployment then otherwise would have ment here, they locate their operations here, been the case. they export overseas and then attract a Let us take the bizarre example of ripping bounty. That compensates for the lack of a about $1 billion worth of expenditure out of free market for them and has enabled a the acquisition of information technology. As number of Australian pharmaceutical com- is commonly understood and appreciated in panies to grow and become world competitive business and in the Australian community, at a time in which there is a rationalisation in information technology is an enabler of this industry sector globally. But this has greater efficiencies and a deliverer of different meant that we are a player. If you chop that services—a greater choice in services and a bounty out, if you chop the factor F program 182 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 out, as has been widely reported will occur, element of them. It would penalise good you will therefore, again, undercut a major employers who have built trust and confi- Australian industry sector. dence with their own work force by encourag- When I say these cuttings will dampen ing negative cost cutting by bad employers Australian economic activity and undercut forcing the good employers to follow suit if business activity, I have described two clear they are to remain competitive. I urge the examples of major industry sectors important government to pause, to engage in genuine to the economic development of a modern discussions, to recognise the strength and industrial state in which this government is merit of the cases that can be adduced to moving in a regressive way. That is the first show that progress here is being dramatically of my two thresholds. The second of my two but cooperatively achieved, and to not unilat- thresholds is the oft cited and much bruited erally proceed now and fracture the industrial changes to industrial relations that the govern- harmony that this country has obtained and ment has announced. carefully built and nurtured after many years. During the election campaign, the then These changes that I have just referred to opposition was very keen to sneak up to will affect all business—big business, medium people and whisper quietly in the ear of the business and, most of all, small business. This electorate, ‘Don’t worry. We’re not going to is why the government’s rhetoric on small do anything that is going to hurt any individu- business is very empty. Let us look at what als.’ If you look at what detail we now have the government is proposing to do in terms of available, it is unmistakable that the impact what it said before the election. I am not will be the possibility that wages will fall talking here about the rumours and leaks across Australia because individual workers emerging out of the government in its run to could be victimised—their wages could be put the budget, but what it promised to do before at risk, their living standards could be put at the election and which one must have a full risk and their families could be put at risk expectation it will try to deliver on. In the because of those changes. industry and science area alone there is to be I think the government should pause here. a cost cutting of $270 million in programs It should not proceed any further. It should that are key supports for small- to medium- try to forge a better and deeper understanding sized business in this country. These are with the Australian union movement about programs that are strategically targeted to how these changes can go forth. It should not meet the needs of small business, to help foist them on the union movement after them flourish and grow in the Australian nominal consultations in which there is no community. change or very little change based on the evidence that can be adduced. Take the innovation statement that the If the government proceeds down the course Labor government brought down in December that it has now embarked on, it will simply be last year. That statement is aimed at keeping inviting unions in this country to maximise Australian inventions in Australia, using our their bargaining position before any legal scientific and entrepreneurial ingenuity and changes are made, and that would be disrup- generating investment in and the commerciali- tive to the economy in itself. It would fracture sation of those inventions in this country. our internationally recognised record of That program is now being swept aside. We industrial peace and the genuine workplace can stand on the dock and wave goodbye to cooperation that we have been able to build yet some more Australian technology, as up over the years. It would also drive Austral- foreign markets commercialise on our science ia down the New Zealand road of low wages and industry ingenuity. The innovation state- but not high skill. It is the turning away from ment, which would have set up a national high skills and the embracing of the low wage system of innovation for this country in a way concept that is, I think, at the base of these that would have kept those inventions here, changes and, in economic terms, the worst has been swept aside. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 183

Take the empty rhetoric of the government infrastructure market in the Asia-Pacific when it talks about the need to increase trade region among the developing economies will and the need to work with Australian industry be undercut. Jobs will be lost where jobs have to do so. The government, according to its now been gained, and companies that have election platform, is proposing to cut the become successful will be made marginal bec- export market development grants and the ause of a lack of access to or an ability to other supports that are provided as financial rely on that scheme. incentives for companies to get into export. I can go further: research and development Export market development grants are funda- funding is to be reduced. We in this country mental and critical, particularly for small have a great ability to invent things but we business. Small business cannot export with- want to encourage more private sector re- out access to those funds. It encourages small search and development, and incentives are business people to recover the costs of devel- needed to do that. By cutting those funds, it oping a market position in a foreign offshore means that we can come up with the ideas but market and it helps to defray some of the we cannot develop them for the marketplace. costs for them in going overseas to do that. If we cannot do that, we cannot take advan- By cutting those funds, we cut the penetration tage of our capacity and win new markets in of these Australian companies into those a fast changing international marketplace. markets and reduce our export effort accord- That is a regressive change. ingly. The NIES scheme, which is delivered by If the rumours about Austrade are true the Ausindustry, is to be cut. Every small busi- international market intelligence system that ness company in Australia knows about NIES. this country has developed over the years to It is a scheme that helps small business, in a provide best knowledge about state of play in personal way, to develop business plans and foreign markets across a whole range of marketing strategies. It is delivered with the industry sectors for Australian small- to state governments. The states will complain medium-sized business will be significantly about this, and so they should, because they reduced. We will therefore be going blind in will have to bear the brunt of the reaction that those markets. We will then be at a disadvan- comes from industry when this is cut. But this tage compared to companies from other is also slated to be reduced. Let us move now countries and we will not be competitive in to the diesel fuel rebate. If that rebate is anything like the way in which we now have abolished, it puts a tax on exports in this a reputation for being. country and pushes the current account deficit further into the red. What the government has undertaken to do in the export area is, of course, unbelievable. Let us go to the tariff concession order Let us go further and look at the DIFF scheme. We tidied up the tariff concession Scheme. This is a scheme for soft loans for order scheme in our innovation statement, and Australian companies to develop in export we committed ourselves in the election markets. Two of the companies that spring to campaign to consult further with the Austral- mind, being the biggest beneficiaries, are ian business interests and the Australian Clough Engineering—of course, the principal industry organisations about that scheme. I of that company is the President of the Lib- think it is a good scheme and it ought to eral Party in Western Australia—and Trans- continue in its now revised form, the form we field. The country in which most of these announced after the innovation statement. funds are expended is Indonesia, a developing Australian industry—including the most country where we can use soft loans to get prestigious industry organisations in this our infrastructure developers in to help devel- country, and some of the most conservative— op the infrastructure of those countries. This is up in arms over this government’s threats scheme is going to be removed if the govern- to cut this scheme. By cutting this scheme, we ment’s election undertakings are to be be- would make Australian industry less—not lieved. Our penetration of the fast growing more—competitive in the world. You tie not 184 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 one but two arms behind their backs when Deaths at Port Arthur they are in the international marketplace Senator ABETZ (Tasmania) (7.24 p.m.)— trying to compete with foreign companies by, This is the first opportunity I have had to in fact, imposing a tariff on the import of offer to Senator Stott Despoja my congratula- intermediate goods where there is no Austral- tions on the presentation of her first speech ian producer. earlier this evening. If there is no Australian producer, then the Last Sunday, the people of Port Arthur, tariff is not protecting any Australian com- Tasmania, Australia, and indeed the world, pany; it is just a revenue raising exercise. It suffered and witnessed a tragedy of unspeak- imposes costs by increasing the price of those able proportions. Times of tragedy often bring intermediate goods to the Australian com- out the true character of people. Following panies that need those goods to produce a this tragedy we witnessed the discreet and final product that can compete in the market- humble national leadership displayed by His place. So I think that that would indeed be a Excellency the Governor-General in calling regressive step. They are some examples—I for the ecumenical service held in Canberra have to say they are superficially treated on Monday. All Australians would wish to examples—of where I believe the slash and thank His Excellency for his leadership. burn policy of the government is wrong in Today I attended a state funeral service in fact. It is wrong in principle, but it is also Hobart. Prior to that service, families and wrong here in application, because it does not friends of victims were invited to partake of go to improving the competitiveness of coffee at Hobart’s Hadley’s Hotel. I was Australian industry. deeply touched and privileged to have been It undermines the competitiveness of all invited by the family of my friend Glen Roy industry, particularly small business, the ones Pears to be part of that gathering. As I was who are most vulnerable, who have less there, I observed their Excellencies, the discretionary time to protect themselves, who Governor-General and the Governor of Tas- are overpressed and who need every assist- mania, quietly and unassumingly move ance the government can provide to help them amongst the mourners offering the nation’s up the ladder. That is what these cuts do. and the state’s sympathy. Their demeanour, These are not whimsical ideas by me; these their presence and their obvious sympathy are black letter commitments by this govern- made me feel proud of the heads of state of ment when it was running in the election Australia and Tasmania. The community campaign. turnout today in Hobart and the messages were of great comfort and support to those of I think that the somewhat superficial re- us who mourned. The flying of flags at half marks that have been made by the govern- mast throughout the nation was a truly ap- ment should be set aside. These programs preciated gesture of solidarity. So out of this should be restored and there should be a real tragedy, we can celebrate our unity, support program of assistance for small business, not and love for each other. empty rhetoric, not fobbing off, not patronis- ing industry leaders, not telling them what is But it is with a heavy heart that I juxtapose good for them, but actually working with these positive aspects of our national charac- them to help build this economy international- ter with the behaviour of some within the ly as a more competitive economy. Australian media. Let me preface my com- ments by saying that I believe in the freedom Debate interrupted. of the media. Having said that, let me say that that freedom, so unfettered as it is, demands ADJOURNMENT that it be exercised with dignity and with Motion (by Senator Tambling)—by responsibility. What I now say is said not in leave—proposed: anger, but rather in genuine sorrow. But it was with revulsion and disgust that my fellow That the Senate do now adjourn. Tasmanians and Australians observed the Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 185 sharklike feeding frenzy the media are en- sentative of the Sydney Morning Herald gaged in. arrived at the Pears’ home announcing that The Today program sent Steve Liebmann to she was authorised to collect the photograph the front door of the Royal Hobart Hospital of Glen Pears. Unbeknown to the Sydney for sensationalism. Some of his comments, I Morning Herald, the lawyer who had just told have to say, left a lot to be desired. The Aus- the Sydney Morning Herald no was in the tralian published a doctored photograph of Pears’ residence. Suffice it to say, the person the accused. Listening to its editor’s defence who alleged she had the authority was told to on radio, I could not help but compare the leave. standards the media apply to themselves as Undeterred, the Sydney Morning Herald compared to those in public life. There were continued in their search for a photograph, elements of the media that went doorknocking although they knew that the family did not in the township of Port Arthur, wanting to get want any photographs published. What was the new story, the different angle. There was their next port of call? It was Glen’s former no sympathy for the people, just the callous employer. They rang requesting a photograph seeking out of an extra story, a different from the staff file. His former employer quite angle. properly sought the permission of the family. There were journalists stationed at the Do you know when that phone call was Melbourne airport gate lounges at which made? When they got home after the memori- planes from Hobart were arriving. Journalists al service today. After that they received this were calling out to the passengers, ‘Is there call from his former employer saying, ‘The anybody on the plane that was at Port Ar- Sydney Morning Herald has made a request thur?’ There were some people on those to release the photograph from the staff file; planes who had been counselled at the Qantas do you give permission?’ Of course, it was lounge before leaving Hobart airport for the denied. trip back to the mainland, only to be con- I ask those in the Sydney Morning Herald, fronted by those elements of the media not ‘How do you think the family felt, having showing any concern or respect, but just said, "No, this is our request, please respect wanting that angle, just wanting that story. it"?’ They then, I would submit, deceitfully There was no thought, no sympathy, no sent someone around to the Pears’ home to discretion. All those things were completely try to get one. When that failed they went off discarded for the sake of that story. Frontline to the employer. The family, in their grief has nothing on the tactics employed by the after the state service today, was confronted real media. The Sydney Morning Herald best by another request through the back door. highlights my concerns. Allow me to give you Why did they do that? Was it out of respect an example of their absolute disregard for to Glen Pears? Was it to try to help his family privacy. Glen Pears, my friend that I have cope with the grief? Why can’t they just leave previously mentioned has, as yet, not been the family alone? positively identified, although those of us who I say to the Sydney Morning Herald and know Glen have resigned ourselves to the other media outlets that your insensitivity, worst. His remains have not been positively your heartlessness and your crassness have identified, but, really, in our minds there is no done untold damage to your profession. The doubt that there is one remaining person and sensational, the biggest story, is the only we believe that to be Glen. priority it seems. This desire for the story The Sydney Morning Herald, undeterred by rates above any other consideration. Next time the fact that Glen had not been officially you people in the media seek to criticise a identified as a victim, sought to obtain a trade unionist or an employer or somebody photograph of Glen from his family. This was else in public life, I say, ‘Just look at yourself officially denied them by their lawyer, Mr in the mirror and you will see an element of George Walker. Within 15 minutes of that our community which is far worse than those denial a person identifying herself as a repre- that you seek to criticise—an element that has 186 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 failed to show respect, compassion, sincerity desire to find some common ground and some and empathy.’ The story, the photograph and solution, is able to accept delegations from the sensational have been the motivator political parties on both sides. We were also throughout. The ethics of journalism in this able to have about half an hour with the national tragedy have been found to be Turkish foreign minister on that question. The devastatingly wanting. IPU is also able to bring a better understand- ing of the issues of terrorism and things Inter-Parliamentary Union Conference in which might not seem so important to us, Instanbul such as fish stocks, but which are very im- Senator WHEELWRIGHT (New South portant to countries in the Third World. Wales) (7.34 p.m.)—I rise in this adjournment I would like to thank for the assistance I debate to speak briefly about my recent received Peter Keele from the Australian attendance at the Inter-Parliamentary Union parliament and Pamela MacDonald from Conference in Instanbul. I do so because it DFAT, who worked very tirelessly for our was the Senate which paid my fare, so I feel delegation to provide briefing notes and required to at least say a few words about my everything that we might require. She certain- experiences there. I must thank the Senate in ly seemed to know the face of absolutely that regard because I found it a very stimulat- everyone from the hundreds of delegates who ing and useful experience to be in Instanbul. came from all over the world. I was lucky enough to be able to speak in the first plenary session. The speech that I gave The person I would particularly like to was very well received, to the extent that the thank is the Australian Ambassador to Tur- Japanese delegation decided to incorporate it key, Mr David Evans, and his wife Pamela. in their report to the Diet in Japan. He worked tirelessly on our behalf. He gave Having got such international notoriety, I our delegation a sense of authority which I thought it might be appropriate for me to think was missing from some of the other provide it to the Senate here today. I will not delegations who were not quite so well go through it, but the first line says that I fear supported. It was a pleasure from my point of that parliamentarians are losing control of view to be supported by someone so know- politics. I went on to talk about my experi- ledgeable on the issues of not only that coun- ence in Papeete and Mururoa. I know that try but international politics in general. I Senator Margetts, who was there, would join would also like to thank his wife because too with me in saying that as a parliamentarian often we fail to recognise the efforts of the the experience of going with other parliamen- partners of people who do these difficult jobs tarians who acted out of individual conscience for Australia. They are an unpaid member of rather than as representatives of their own the partnership but they are no less unstinting governments was an unique experience and in the efforts that they go to to make people one which I think gave us all faith in parlia- feel welcome and to provide very useful mentary institutions and the power of individ- assistance. ual parliamentarians as opposed to the power Finally, as everyone knows, on these inter- of bureaucrats or diplomats. national trips there is an element of friendly As I said, the speech was very well re- ribbing between people from different politi- ceived. Having been to the Inter-Parlia- cal parties. Generally, there is a good feeling mentary Union, I was given an opportunity to about it. There is said to be a 200-kilometre see the worth of that institution. I was asked rule about some of the conversations that are to serve on the Cyprus committee, which entered into in private but there is one I do deals with one of the most thorny problems not think anyone would mind me repeating. of the Mediterranean or, indeed, the world. We were taken by the ambassador through The IPU is the only international institution Istanbul to give us a feel of the place. We which talks to both sides of the people on the were passing a somewhat less than salubrious island of Cyprus. The UN can only recognise part of the city when the leader of our deleg- one side, but the IPU, in a spirit of genuine ation, Steve Martin, commented that obvious- Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 187 ly things were not great for everyone in I want to place on record a number of Istanbul; there was poverty, and so on. One company names and brand names which have of the Liberal members of our delegation said, been used to import, process and/or retail ‘That’s where all the battlers are, pal.’ I products containing Canadian pork. It is replied, ‘Yes, they’ve probably got a photo of important that we understand this. The alter- John Howard in every house.’ One of the native is proper labelling laws so that con- Liberals said, ‘Yes, and Mr Abbott as well’. sumers have a choice. I trust that the coalition will very quickly bring legislation into this Pork Producers in Queensland place that will allow consumers to know what Senator WOODLEY (Queensland) (7.38 they are purchasing. p.m.)—I would like to commend Senator In the absence of such legislation, I inform Abetz for his contribution to the debate on the the Senate that, as I understand it, Meapro of adjournment. He raised some critical issues. Sydney, which is sold through the Franklins Senator Abetz and I do not always agree but stores, is one of these companies. Primo and I agree absolutely with what he said tonight. Goldcob are two product brand names sold I want to raise an issue which has been through the Coles stores. Duncan and Davis raised with me by a number of pork producers are processors of these products. Redlich, in Queensland—from Warwick, the South Ritter and Dyson, Melbourne manufacturers Burnett area and Monto. They have a number of ham and salami products, also process and of concerns about their industry, particularly retail imported Canadian pork. the prospect of more pork producers going out My other concern is the health threat that of business or being taken over. Canadian pork still poses. I am happy to A couple of their concerns involve the repeat some of the concerns raised by Bruce possible initiation of a couple of large pigger- Scott in previous years. He called for a ban ies in the Warwick area. One of them, already on all Canadian pig meat imports because of quite famous in this place having been men- his concern about disease. He specifically tioned quite often here by another senator— talked about the threat of importing porcine Danpork—could be starting a 10,000-sow respiratory and reproductive syndrome, other- piggery. wise known as mystery swine disease, MSD. He pointed out that this is very prevalent in The producers want to know whether regions of Canada and results in a reduction Danpork was given favoured treatment in of fertility rates, increased neonatal mortality terms of environmental responsibilities and and an increase in the prevalence and severity controls. It wants to site its piggery only one of other diseases. kilometre from the Condamine River which, He pointed out that the infective agent is of course, is part of the Murray-Darling unknown and that the risk associated with the Basin. importation of fresh meat and frozen semen One of the positive things about Danpork from Canada cannot be quantified. He was is that it claims to be creating 500 jobs reported in a press release as saying: through building such a super-piggery in the The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service area. But the pork producers, particularly in has supported a ban against Canadian semen the South Burnett, asked me what point there imports due to little being known about the was in creating 500 jobs if you lost 500 farms disease’s transmission but continues to allow the because of it. import of fresh pig meat. While we readily import a possible diseased They have also raised with me the issue of product from Canada a local meat works recently the importation of Canadian pork. I certainly had a consignment of beef refused entry to Canada agree with the new Minister for Veterans’ due to a lower class ‘G’ in the kilogram measure- Affairs, Mr Bruce Scott, who for some years ment on the cartons. has raised this issue on behalf of the pork It is this kind of unequal competition which producers. I would like to mention a number Australian producers have to face in the of concerns that he has raised. global market. I agree with Mr Scott when he 188 SENATE Wednesday, 1 May 1996 says that Australian producers pay a levy to summer. As a result Marguerite was unable to the Australian Pork Corporation towards the correspond with you. In March it was diagnosed as promotion of the consumption and sale of Cancer. Thankfully she did not suffer long. Australian pork and that Canadian importers I am appalled that we in Australia continue to directly benefit from such promotion with no supply uranium to countries who use it in associated costs. Those are the issues that I nuclear weapons programs. This has gone on want to raise; I could refer to many others, for too long. The brave people of this world, but I know that there are other speakers in the like Marguerite, who fought against the adjournment debate. tragedies caused by nuclear weapons, should be commemorated. I hope that the work Mar- I again impress on the government the need guerite has done will help the world to for, in the least, proper labelling so that change its mind about the production of Australian consumers can make a choice for nuclear materials for nuclear weapons. themselves about whether they want to eat an Australian product or imported products. Senate adjourned at 7.49 p.m. Condolences: Marguerite Tetuanui DOCUMENTS Senator MARGETTS (Western Australia) Government Documents (7.46 p.m.)—I rise tonight on a very sad The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister occasion. It is ironic that tonight Senator for Social Security (Senator Kemp), at the Wheelwright referred to the parliamentarians request of the Minister for the Environment who last year travelled to Tahiti to participate (Senator Hill), tabled the following govern- with parliamentarians from many parts of the ment documents: world to help in solidarity the French Tahitian Advance to the Minister for Finance—Statement people who were deeply concerned about the and supporting applications of issues—October beginning of French nuclear tests again on 1995. their soil. When I came back to Australia Classification (Publications, Films and Computer from Tahiti, as soon as I could I fulfilled a Games) Act—Agreement between the Common- promise to a woman I met in Tahiti, Marguer- wealth of Australia, the States of New South ite Tetuanui, to present in the Senate a speech Wales, Victoria, Queensland, Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania, the Australian which she was to present to the Beijing Capital Territory and the Northern Territory Women’s Conference. She was unable to relating to a revised co-operative legislative attend that conference. A small section of her scheme for censorship in Australia, together with speech states: explanatory statement. I am not a scientific but I am sure that all the Commonwealth Grants Commission Act—Com- population of Polynesia die from cancer. My monwealth Grants Commission—Reports— mother is dead from the cancer of stomach. My Christmas Island inquiry 1995. Brother Paul is dead from general cancer. My sister Celestine is dead from cancer of lungs. My sister General revenue grant relativities—1996 Leonie is dead from cancer of lungs. My sister update. Liliane is dead from cancer of breast and my sister Department of Defence—Special purpose flights Madeline and myself had the cancer of the breast. —Schedule for the period 1 July to 31 December Both of us have had operation; and thank God who 1995. (help) us and keep us alive. Employment, Education and Training Act— I received a letter from another wonderful National Board of Employment, Education and woman, Ahuura Paia, who spent much of Training—Review of appointment procedures for Australian Research Council program committees three days with me and Kerrie Tucker, a and discipline panels, January 1996. member of the ACT parliament. Her letter Equal Employment Opportunity (Commonwealth states, amongst other things: Authorities) Act—Equal employment opportunity Dear Dee, program—Australian National Railways Com- . . . at this time: It is our sad duty to inform you of mission (Australian National)—Report for 1994- the passing of our Beloved Marguerite TETUANUI 95. on the 23 April 1996 17.55 pm, Tahiti time. Foreign Investment Review Board—Report for Marguerite fell ill a short time after you left us last 1994-95. Wednesday, 1 May 1996 SENATE 189

The following documents were tabled by 27— the Clerk: T10-95. Air Navigation Act—Air Navigation (Aerodrome T5-96. Flight Corridors) Determination (Amendment) Radiocommunications Act—Radiocommunica- No. 1 of 1996. tions (Charges) Determination No. 2 of 1995 Air Services Act—Direction under section 16, (Amendment No. 3). dated 20 March 1996. Radiocommunications (Receiver Licence Tax) Broadcasting Services Act—Broadcasting Ser- Act—Radiocommunications (Receiver Licence vices (Events) Notice No. 1 of 1994 (Amend- Tax) Determination No. 1 of 1995 (Amendment ment No. 1 of 1996). No. 4). Civil Aviation Act—Civil Aviation Regula- Radiocommunications Taxes Collection Act— tions—Civil Aviation Orders— Radiocommunications Taxes Collection (Penal- ties on Unpaid Tax) Determination No. 1 of Amendment of section 20, dated 17 April 1996. 1996. Radiocommunications (Transmitter Licence Tax) Exemptions—128/FRS/140/1996, Act—Radiocommunications (Transmitter Licence 129/FRS/141/1996 and 130/FRS/142/1996. Tax) Determination No. 2 of 1995 (Amendment Employment Services Act—Employment Ser- No. 13). vices (Case Management Documents) Determina- Remuneration Tribunal Act—Determinations Nos tion No. 2 of 1995. 26 and 27 of 1995. Higher Education Funding Act—Determination Indexed Lists under section— The following documents were tabled, 15— pursuant to the order of the Senate of 28 June T11-95, T12-95, T15-95, T17-95, T19-95, 1994, as amended on 10 October and 14 T21-95. November 1994: T1-96, T4-96. Indexed lists of departmental files for the period 16— 1 July 1995 to 31 Decmber 1995—Department— T13-95, T14-95, T16-95, T20-95. Finance. T2-96. Housing and Regional Development. 24— Industry, Science and Technology. T18-95. Tourism. T3-96. Transport.