Constitution of Kenya Review Commission Ckrc
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CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW COMMISSION CKRC VERBATIM REPORT OF CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS MT. ELGON CONSTITUENCY AT KAPSOKWONY HIGH SCHOOL ON 29 JULY, 2002 CONSTITUENCY PUBLIC HEARINGS MT. ELGON CONSTITUENCY HELD AT KAPSOWKWONY HIGH SCHOOL ON 29.07.02 PRESENT Com. Mosonik Arap Korir - in chair Com. Lenaola Isaac Com. Zein Abubakar Secretariat in Attendance Hassan Mohammed - Programme Officer Joyce Wamucii - Assistant Programme Officer Marion Nekesa - Verbatim Recorder The meeting started at 10.25am with Com. Mosonik in Chair. Com. Mosonik Arap Korir: ………..kuna Bwana Hassan Mohammed ambaye ni huyu, yeye ni Programme Officer katika Tume. Tena ako na naibu wake Assistant Programme Officer Bi. Joyce Wamucii, upande ule mwingine. Halafu wa mwisho ni Marion Nekesa ameketi upande huu, yeye ni Verbatim Recorder. Verbatim Recorder ni kusema yeye ana nasa maoni yenu kwa kanda ama kwa machine. Tuonyeshe namna hii tafadhali tuione? Kwamba yale yote mtayasema yatanaswa moja kwa moja kwa kanda. Assistant Programme Officer ambaye yuko upande ule, yaani Joyce, atakuwa pia akiandika maoni yenu mukiyasema. Kwa hivyo kuna njia tatu tutachukua maoni yenu, yatakuwa yakinaswa kwa kanda, halafu Assistant Programme officer atakuwa anaandika, inaaitwa long hand, pia sisi Ma-Commissioner watatu tutakuwa tukiandika mkisema. Wakati mwingine mkiona kama hatuandiki, hiyo recorder inafanya kazi, verbatim. Tukirudi Nairobi everything we will transcribed. Taratibu ya kazi ya leo ni kwamba, kwanza kila mtu akiingia anajiandikisha mlangoni kwa form hii, registration form. Ukijiandikisha unasema kama utatoa maoni ama hata kama unahudhuria tu mkutano ama kikao unaandika, na unasema mimi nitakuwa tu observer. Ukisema una maoni ya kuyatoa, unaeleza kama ni maoni yameandikwa yaani memorandum, au written au tuseme maoni ya kutoa kwa mdomo tu na ukitoa kwa njia hiyo tunasema oral submissions; Memo, written, oral. Mkitoa maoni ambayo mumeyaandika sheria inahitaji kwamba upewe dakika tano. Tutakuwa tunajaribu kulinda saa, kwa 2 hivyo musizidishe. Ikiwa yote yameandikwa, tutayasoma baadaye. Kwa hivyo ukiwa unasema, useme kwa ufupi, hasa mtoe mapendekezo, kueleza mambo sana hakuna hoja. Kwa ajili sisi ni Wakenya kama nyinyi na tunajuwa mambo yalivyo. Usiseme sisi Tumeudhika na kuwa maskini sana tunajua hiyo. Lakini useme ndiyo, kutoa umaskini tufanye namna hii, mapendekezo. Mtagunduwa kwamba mkisema kutoa maoni yaani mapendekezo utasema kwa ufupi, itakuwa ni fupi. Ikiwa unatoa maoni tu kwa mdomo, unafanya oral submissions, tutakupa karibu dakika kumi hivi. Lakini tutawahimiza mfupishe ndio kila mtu apate nafasi ya kusema. Lugha rasmi tunazitumia ni Kiingereza, au Kiswahili. Tungependa sana kama watu watatumia hizo lugha mbili, ndio tusichukue muda mwingi. Lakini kama una shida na hiyo lugha, na ningependa kutumia lugha ya nyumbani, tunaweza kukusikiza, na ninafikiri Bwana Co-ordinator kuna watu wa kutafsiri. Yes. Mr. Murugulu: ……………(in audible) Com. Mosonik Arap Korir: Yes, ambaye anajua kutafsiri, kwa ajili hizo ni lugha kubwa za area hii, mnaweza kusema kwa hiyo lugha. Lakini kama mnajua Kiingereza na Kiswahili, tafadhali semeni kwa Kiingereza na Kiswahili. Mkiwa mumetoa maoni yenu, mnaelekea tena kwa Hassan Mohammed, Programme Officer mnajiandikisha ndio tuwe na anwani yenu na mambo mengi kwa kile kitabu cha Tume. Ikiwa kuna mtu yeyote ambaye ana shida ya kusikia, do we have a sign interpreter? Hatuna sign interpreter wakati huu, mnaweza kumtafuta? Ama area hii hakuna? Tunadhania kwamba kila mtu anasikiza na anaweza kusema kwa mdomo. Okay, mtu yeyote akija hapo mbele kusema, unaketi upande ule, kuna hii meza na kiti na unasema kwa microphone. Na ukianza kusema unataja jina lako tena. Nitaita wewe, mtu wa kwanza nitataja jina, lakini akianza kusema ataje jina, ndio jina iende kwa machine, kwa rekodi. Okay, na tukiwa hapa, tunataka watu wajadiliane ama waseme kuhusu maswala na maswali ya Kikatiba, issues and questions. Hatutaki kutaja majina ya watu. Lugha tutakayotumia ni ile tunaita ya kistarabu, I think civilized language ya heshima. Hatutaki matusi na vitu kama hivyo. Na mtu akieleza maoni yake ana haki kamili ya kueleza maoni yake. Hata kama hautaki ama haupendi maoni ya huyo mtu, tumsikize mpaka mwisho kwa ajili utapata nafasi yako ya kusema vile wewe unaona. Na tena tukipiga kelele tutaharibu ku-rekodi, kwa ajili machine yenyewe inaharibika ikiwa watu wanapiga kelele. Na baadaye tukirudi tutapata kwamba kuna tu 3 kelele kwa machine na hakuna maoni. Kitu kingine ni kwamba Ma Commissioner wana haki ya kuuliza nyinyi maswali ya kufafanua. Unaweza kusema kitu, hatukuelewa vizuri, tutauliza maswali, ama swali moja au mbili, na ikiwa una jibu, unajibu. Ikiwa haujafikiria, usijilazimishe kujibu, useme hiyo sikuwa nimefikiria vizuri. Ikiwa ni ngumu swala hilo, unasema hiyo ni kazi yenu Ma-Commissioner, nyinyi ni experts and I am a raia. Lakini nimetoa maoni yangu. Tunataka iwe ni majadiliano ya kirafiki na tena ya kizalendo kwa ajili ya Katiba yetu. Kesho ilikuwa tunatakiwa tuwe kwa Constituency hii yenu, tuwe Cheptais Secondary, yaani kituo cha pili cha kukusanya maoni yenu, maoni ya watu wa Constituency hii. Lakini kwa ajili ya sababu zisizoweza kuepukika, hatutaweza kuwa na kikao cha kesho Cheptais. Tumeuliza itangazwe kwamba mkutano wa Cheptais Secondary School, itakuwa Jumamosi wiki hii. Saturday tarehe tatu mwezi wa nane. Kwa hivyo tafadhali, mtusaidie kuwatangazia wengine ambao hawako hapa leo. Asanteni, nafikiri sasa tunaweza kuanza. Kwanza kabisa tafadhali tunamualika Mheshimiwa W.A. Kisiero. W.A. Kisiero: Honourable Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen, since I have the honour to be the first speaker here, I wish to welcome you to Mt. Elgon, feel very free. Bwana Commissioners, ni shukrani kubwa kwa ninyi kututembelea sisi, ili muangalie maoni yetu kuhusu mambo ya Katiba. Com. Zein: Unaweza kusema jina lako? W.A. Kisiero: Pole sana, jina langu ni Honourable Wilforce Kisiero former Member of Parliament for Mt. Elgon Constituency. Bwana Chairman, vile sisi tunafikiria ni kwamba hii Tume imekuja kwa wakati mzuri sana. Kwa maana hapo awali hatujawahi kuweka maoni yetu mbele ya Tume. Wale wenzetu walipoenda mbali huko Lancaster, hatukuwepo, lakini ni shukrani. Wakati umefika ambapo tunaweza sasa kutoa maoni yetu. Bwana Commissioners, shida yetu kubwa katika community ya Sabaot, ni social injustice. Social injustice kwa vile kutoka muda mrefu Tumepata maumivu. Maumivu yaliyoletwa na binaadamu. Na hayo maumivu yanahusu ardhi, na yanahusu haki zetu. Yanahusu ardhi kwa maana sisi hatuna nchi. Ikiwa mtaweza kuniruhusu, ni quote tu a small verse ya kusema ya kwamba, ingawa tulikuwa tunaishi nchi kubwa ya Bungoma yote na Trans-Nzoia yote, lakini wakoloni walituvuruga na kutufukuza. Kwa 4 hivyo hatuna nchi, hatuna mahali na wenyewe waliweza kuandika kusema kwamba, hawa watu hawana nchi, they have no country they can call their own. And Bwana Chairman, utaweza kujionea mwenyewe, katika documents ambazo tutakupa ambayo zilitolewa kutoka Kenya Land Commission in 1932, paragraphs 1082 ambapo walisema hawa Elgon nyar Sabaot, they are an embarrassment, they must be thrown out. Utaona pia katika paragraphs 1081 ya kwamba, hawana mahali pa kuishi. Lakini kwa maana wao ni kabila linakufa, they are dying race, therefore there is no need for them to have land. Utaona pia katika paragraph 1082 ya summary ya Kenya Land Commission ya 1932 ambapo ilisemekana kwamba, watahamisha wa Sabaot, wa Elgon kwenda nje ya Kenya, ili kupatia nafasi ya wakoloni. (Problems incurred in Tape one) And they assumed that they can as well go and stay in Sebei. They went on further to say that the policy of administration is to move the Engwen off the farm, where they are an embarrassment to the European settlers and to the government. So we are an embarrassment to the government of the day. Mr. Chairman Sir, I have another quotation that will illustrate our ills that they have not stopped as yet. I was reading yesterday ’s Standard and I was not surprised to read the following; ….. “Thrown into the western alliance for good measure are the Kuria, the Teso and the Sabaot, the three smaller communities in Western Kenya that have been politically anihilated by the Luo and Luhya in the region”. So I was on the subject of social justice. Here are people who were thrown out and when they came to Western Province where they are now, they have been anihilated, we are nobody. There have been no boundary. Although Mt. Elgon was given a district some years back, 1993, we have had no boundary demarcated. Infact it would have been fair to divide the two districts into two and the issue is finished. But you can see that social injustice is still with us upto yesterday, maybe even today and it will continue. Because basically, we were uprooted from our ancestral land. Now, since this has happened, we are begging the Commission to consider special provision in the Constitution which will reinstate our right to our land. We request the Commission to consider making a provision for compensation for the loss that we have gone through. We 5 request the Commission to make a provision to ensure that the Sabaot who because they have become few, they were scattered some went to Tanzania. Some went to Uganda, some went to Maasai land, some went to Pokot. They went everywhere, so the few numbers remained. Now that we are very few, we are requesting that the Commission considers the possibility of creating special seats for Parliamentary, for other elective positions, for appointments in various positions because this has been done to other communities elsewhere in the world. I am sure you have read the Constitutions of very many countries, you have read Australia, Canadian and so on, where indigenous who were dis-possessed and mistreated had their rights returned back to them. Mr. Chairman Sir, we also request that in view of that fact that we were so mistreated and thrown out we would like our land to be returned back to us because we have no business being in Kenya if the present government does not consider that we were maltreated, mistreated, thrown out and the government should really have a look at such cases.