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REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT Douglas, Wednesday, March 18, 1959 Present: The Governor (Sir Ambrose BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND Flux Dundas, K.C.I.E., C.S.I.). In the FISHERIES—DEBATE ON Council: The Lord Bishop (Rt. Rev. ESTIMATES CONTINUED Benjamin Pollard. T.D., D.D., M.Sc.), The Governor: We are now debating Deemster S. J. Kneale, 0.B.E., Deemster item 10 on the agenda. May I just B. W. Macpherson, the Attorney- remind members of the stage he had General (Mr G. E. Moore), Sir Ralph reached at the adjournment yesterday. Stevenson, G.C.M.G., Messrs J. F. There are two amendments—the first is Crellin, 0.B.E., M.C., G. H. Moore, that the. wool vote of £.12,000 be struck Alfred J Teare, M.B.E., J. H. Nicholls out, and the second is to reduce the and E.. B. C. Farrant, M.B.E., with Mr whole total of the estimate to £250,000. E. R. St. A. Davies, M.B.E., GovernMent Mr Radcliffe: Your Excellency, I was Secretary and Clerk to the Council In about to speak when the adjournment the Keys: The Speaker (Sir Joseph came yesterday, but in some ways it is Qualtroligh, C.B.E.), Messrs H. K. very difficult to know what to say in Corlett, T. F. Corkhill, E. N. Crowe, H. reply to some of the extraordinary, H. Radcliffe, H. C. Kerruish, Lt.-Cdr. J. irresponsible statements that were L. Quine, Messrs J. C. Nivison, W, E. made. Agriculture is the Island's basic Quayle; H. S. Cain, .A. H. Simcocks, C. industry in the sense of economic C. McFee, T. A. Coole, G. C. Gale, A. S. wealth as understood by economists. It Kelly, A. Cecil Teare, J, Edward is the only source of wealth in the Isle Callister, T. A. Corkish, R. C. Stephen, of Man. The soundness of Manx agriculture has proved itself through J. M. Cain, 0.B.E., W. B. Kaneen, E. C. two wars in recent history, to the benefit Irving and J. B. Bolton, with Mr F. B. of the whole community, who were not Johnson, M.A., Secretary to the House afraid to take advantage of that sound- of Keys and Clerk to Tynwald. ness. The benefit is felt throughout the Island in all walks of life. It should be the endeavour of every member of this Court and of the community to LATE START OF PROCEEDINGS— foster the continued well being of agri- culture, to make it a source of yet PROTEST BY MR GALE greater national wealth, to put the Mr Gale: Your Excellency, I wish to Island on the map as a producer of agricultural products of high quality, record a protest against the hour at to build up a prosperous export indus- which our proceedings are commencing. try, but what do we find? Mr Bolton, I was instructed to be here at 10-20 a.m., the hon. member for West Douglas, very and is is now 10-47 a.m. seriously disturbed that an article appeared in an English newspaper Mr Crellin: You will get used to it in praising Manx agriculture. The thought time. (Laughter.) that anything Manx should be praised Late Start of Proceedings — Protest by Mr Gale. — Board of Agriculture and Fisheries—Debate on Estimates Continued. TYNWALD COURT, MARCH 18, 1959 567 seems to be poison to Mr Bolton. Would Mr Radcliffe: Is Mr Bolton, the hon. not our visiting industry be improved member for West Douglas, aware of the by a little boosting rather than slander- elementary rule that imports must be ing? Mr Bolton and others appear to be paid by exports, visible or invisible? Is prepared to do what they can to destroy he suggesting that we should build a any prosperity agriculture may enjoy. brick wall round the Island and grow The support given to agriculture in the nothing? The Manx farmers' cost of United Kingdom by way of grants, sub- production is no less than that in the United Kingdom and if he is to survive sidies and support prices is reduced to the lowest level considered practicable, the support he receives must be no less by deliberations between teams of and if he is to prosper it will be because of his efficiency, skill and hard work and economists, the Farmers' Union and the Ministry of . Agriculture. They of the natural wealth in the quality of the land, and we should be proud of that don't give one penny more than they • have to do to face competition from and it would be in our best interests to articles admitted into the United King- support them instead of pushing them down. As a particular item, do mem- dom free of tariffs. The level of sup- bers realise that milk is cheaper than port in the Isle of Man is not higher than in the United Kingdom, and if it is anywhere else in the United Kingdom, without any production bonuses which on the lowest level how can you expect it to exist, not to mention prosper? they have in the United Kingdom. In the item on the agenda for £5,500 that And the intention of these two amend- ments is to reduce the level of the was purely for heat treatment and it is support. When Mr Bolton suggested a health measure, not a bonus to the thousands of pounds in the Isle of Man farmers. I am going to suggest that are equivalent to millions of pounds consumers this spring and early spent in support prices, in the U.K. he summer, including the hoteliers, may ignores the fact that there are no heavy find a difficulty, owing to the lack of industries in the Island, and very few policy, in the price of potatoes, and what they will have to pay, light industries shows that propor- tionately the people are dependent on Mr Coole: We had it last winter. the Land. Mr Bolton also objected to subsidised oats being exported. Has he Mr Kaneen: There's a lack of policy. no knowledge that many countries sub- Mr Stephen: And a lack of potatoes. sidise them and that from the national (Laughter.) point of view, that any profit is material to the whole question of national Mr Radcliffe: There has been a lack of wealth. The cost of subsidy is the cost policy and you are going to suffer in the of production. Does Mr Bolton wish to price of the potatoes. Your are trying see those production costs wiped away to knock out a policy for potatoes. and the farms go derelict? With all that Mr Kaneen: You have no policy. that would entail through every section of the community? I know that his Mr Radcliffe: They are not going to ,.colleague has something to say about have a policy at all if you have your that. I suppose he is asking what the way. cost of production means. Mr Callister: You have no policy at Mr Irving: Does he mean the hon. all. member for West Douglas? Mr Radcliffe: Mr Stephen, in his Mr Radcliffe: I have already said the inimitable way, did not wish to hear hon. member for West Douglas. about uncontrollable spending, but all I have to say is that not spending is not Mr Irving: He does not want to be economy. It may be a false economy. confused.. You have to spend. • Board of Agriculture and Fisheries—Debate on Estimates Continued. 568 TYNWALD COURT, MARCH 18, 1959 Mr Stephen: What about extrava- Mr Nivison: I say the Labour Party gence? has always supported a strong agricul- Mr • Radcliffe: You have to spend to ture and I hope will continue to do so earn, not by digging holes and filling in the future. I do say that, for my them up again, because that is unpro own part, I would not be one who would ductive expenditure and that is waste. support any amendment to reduce a I must emphasise that the agricultural vote unless it was backed up by strong vote which the Board has made is cut evidence of the particular overspending. to the minimum and the estimates put The hon. member for South Douglas has before you by the acting-chairman of moved an amendment to reduce the the Board I am• suggesting is the barest total vote to a round figure of £250,000. minimum to allow agriculture to keep I believe that could only be supported if going. if members of the Court wish to evidence proved that there was extrava- keep agriculture and not kill it. gence or expenditure in a wrong way. It has not, in my opinion, been backed The Speaker: Who wants to kill it.? up by evidence other than perhaps that Mr Radcliffe: We have heard Mr they are getting too much money, But Bolton criticising the system. He wants that is not sufficient evidence for rn6 to to take away the subsidy in support of support it. With regard to the other the price of wool and have it reduced amendment relating to £12.000 for the and he says that year after year we are wool subsidy, I believe the marketing of supporting wool. In 1956 there was no any commodity is for the success of the payment from the Government. In 1957 production. Production must be based there was no payment from the Govern- on sound marketing. I do not know the ment. facts and figures,' but I would trust the Mr Bolton: That makes no difference.

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