1
1
2 COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 3 APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE
4 MAIN CAPITOL 5 ROOM 140 HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA 6
7 BUDGET HEARING DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION 8
9 MONDAY, MARCH 6, 2017 10:14 A.M. 10
11 BEFORE: HONORABLE STANLEY SAYLOR, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN 12 HONORABLE JOSEPH MARKOSEK, MINORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE KAREN BOBACK 13 HONORABLE SHERYL DELOZIER HONORABLE GEORGE DUNBAR 14 HONORABLE GARTH EVERETT HONORABLE KEITH GREINER 15 HONORABLE SETH GROVE HONORABLE MARCIA HAHN 16 HONORABLE SUE HELM HONORABLE WARREN KAMPF 17 HONORABLE FRED KELLER HONORABLE JERRY KNOWLES 18 HONORABLE NICK MICCARELLI HONORABLE DUANE MILNE 19 HONORABLE JASON ORTITAY HONORABLE MIKE PEIFER 20 HONORABLE JEFF PYLE HONORABLE MARGUERITE QUINN 21 HONORABLE BRAD ROAE HONORABLE JAMIE SANTORA 22 HONORABLE CURT SONNEY HONORABLE KEVIN BOYLE 23 HONORABLE TIM BRIGGS
24
25 2
1 BEFORE (continued):
2 HONORABLE DONNA BULLOCK HONORABLE MARY JO DALEY 3 HONORABLE MADELEINE DEAN HONORABLE MARIA DONATUCCI 4 HONORABLE MARTY FLYNN HONORABLE EDWARD GAINEY 5 HONORABLE PATTY KI M HONORABLE STEPHEN KINSEY 6 HONORABLE LEANNE KRUEGER-BRANEKY HONORABLE MIKE O'BRIEN 7 HONORABLE MARK ROZZI HONORABLE PETER SCHWEYER 8 NON-COMMI TTEE MEMBERS: 9 HONORABLE CRIS DUSH HONORABLE MARK GILLEN 10 HONORABLE RON MARSICO HONORABLE ERIC NELSON 11 HONORABLE KRISTIN PHILLIPS-HILL HONORABLE RICK SACCONE 12 HONORABLE CRIAG STAATS HONORABLE WILL TALLMAN 13 HONORABLE STEVE MCCARTER HONORABLE ED NEILSON 14 HONORABLE EDDIE DAY PASHINSKI HONORABLE JAMES R. ROEBUCK 15 HONORABLE MIKE SCHLOSSBERG HONORABLE W. CURTIS THOMAS 16
17 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: DAVID DONLEY, MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 18 RITCHIE LaFAVER, MAJORITY DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRIAM FOX, DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 19 TARA TREES, DEMOCRATIC CHIEF COUNSEL
20
21
22
23 BRENDA J. PARDUN, RPR P. O. BOX 278 24 MAYTOWN, PA 17550 717-940-6528 25 3
1 INDEX
2 NAME PAGE
3 PEDRO RIVERA 8 SECRETARY 4 DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
5 WIL DEL PILAR 31 DEPUTY SECRETARY 6 OFFICE OF POSTSECONDARY & HIGHER EDUCATION 7 PA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
8 GLENN MILLER 37 DEPUTY SECRETARY 9 OFFICE OF COMMONWEALTH LIBRARIES PA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION 10 DANIELLE MARIANO 98 11 DIRECTOR BUREAU OF BUDGET & FISCAL MANAGEMENT 12 PA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
13 MATT STEM 125 DEPUTY SECRETARY 14 OFFICE OF ELEMENTARY & SECONDARY EDUCATION 15 PA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
16 SUSANN MORRIS 135 DEPUTY SECRETARY 17 OFFICE OF CHILD DEVELOPMENT & EARLY LEARNING 18 PA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 4
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Good morning,
3 everyone. Happy Monday.
4 I wanted to remind everybody in the room
5 to either turn off your cell phones or put them On
6 silent.
7 Also, Mr. Secretary and your staff, if you
8 would, make sure that when you speak you speak
9 right into the microphone so that they can pick
10 that up.
11 I think I'll start off this morning by
12 introducing our committee, and then we'll talk
13 about our guests.
14 I’ll start off. Chairman of -- yeah,
15 chairman of the Education Committee, how quickly I
16 forget -- Stan Saylor. I’m from York County, and
17 chairman of the Appropriations Committee.
18 MR. DONLEY: Hi, Dave Donley, Republican
19 staff executive director to the committee.
20 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Good morning.
21 Representative George Dunbar, Westmoreland County,
22 56th District.
23 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Good morning. I’m
24 Marguerite Quinn, from the 143rd District, which is
25 parts of central and upper Bucks County. 5
1 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: I’m Warren Kampf,
2 from the 157th District, in Chester and Montgomery
3 counties.
4 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Keith Greiner,
5 43rd District, Lancaster County.
6 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Good morning,
7 Mr. Secretary. Fred Keller, 85th District, Snyder
8 and Union.
9 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Brad Roae, Crawford
10 County and Erie County.
11 REPRESENTATIVE EVERETT: Garth Everett,
12 Lycoming and Union.
13 REPRESENTATIVE ORTITAY: Jason Ortitay,
14 46th District, Allegheny and Washington.
15 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Representative Seth
16 Grove, York County, 196th District.
17 Good to see you again, Secretary.
18 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Curt Sonney, 4th
19 Legislative District, Erie County. Good morning.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Good morning.
21 Jamie Santora, 163rd District, Delaware County.
22 REPRESENTATIVE HAHN: Good morning.
23 Marcia Hahn, 138th District, Northampton County.
24 REPRESENTATIVE PEIFER: Good morning.
25 Mike Peifer, 139th District, Pike and Wayne 6
1 counties.
2 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Jerry Knowles,
3 124th District, which includes portions of Berks,
4 Carbon, and Schuylkill counties.
5 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Good morning.
6 Sheryl Delozier, Cumberland County, 88th District.
7 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Good morning.
8 Duane Milne, 167th District, Chester County.
9 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Sue Helm, 104th,
10 Dauphin and Lebanon County.
11 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Karen Boback,
12 House District 117, Luzerne, Lackawanna, and
13 Wyoming counties. Good morning.
14 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: Good morning.
15 Joe Markosek, 25th Legislative District, Allegheny
16 County, and the chairman of the Democratic
17 Appropriations Committee.
18 MS. FOX: Hi. Miriam Fox, executive
19 Director for committee Democrats.
20 REPRESENTATIVE ROEBUCK: Good morning.
21 Jim Roebuck, 188th Legislative District, Democratic
22 chair, House Education Committee.
23 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Good morning,
24 Mr. Secretary. Madeleine Dean, 153rd, Montgomery
25 County. 7
1 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Leanna
2 Krueger-Braneky, 161st District, Delaware County.
3 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Good morning.
4 Kevin Boyle, Philadelphia and Montgomery counties.
5 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Good morning.
6 Maria Donatucci, 185th District, Philadelphia and
7 Delaware County.
8 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Good morning. Mary
9 Jo Daley, 148th District, in Montgomery County.
10 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Good morning. Tim
11 Briggs, Montgomery County, 149th District.
12 REPRESENTATIVE ROZZI: Good morning. Mark
13 Rozzi, 126th District, Berks County.
14 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: Good morning.
15 Peter Schweyer, 22nd Legislative District, Lehigh
16 County, city of Allentown.
17 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Hi. Patty Kim, 103rd
18 District, city of Harrisburg.
19 REPRESENTATIVE FLYNN: Representative
20 Marty Flynn, 113th District, Lackawanna County.
21 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Good morning.
22 Representative Donna Bullock, Philadelphia County,
23 195 District.
24 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Good morning. Ed
25 Gainey. I represent the city of Pittsburgh in 8
1 Allegheny County, 24th Legislative District.
2 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Good morning.
3 S t ephen Ki ns ey, Philadelphia County, 201st
4 Legislative District.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We've been
6 joined by several other members who are guests
7 today: Representative Pashinski, Representative
8 Schlossberg, Representative McCarter,
9 Representative Tallman, Representative Saccone,
10 Representative Staats, Representative
11 Phillips-Hill.
12 With that, Mr. Secretary, would you and
13 all your staff who is going to be testifying today
14 please rise and raise your right hand?
15 PEDRO RIVERA,
16 DANIELLE MARIANO,
17 GLENN MILLER,
18 WIL DEL PILAR,
19 were duly sworn by Majority Chairman Saylor.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you. You
21 may be seated.
22 Mr. Secretary, do you have any brief
23 comments or anything before we start.
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: If I can, thank you,
25 Mr. Chairman. 9
1 I want to take a brief moment to introduce
2 the members of my team. Joining me up here today,
3 we have, to my left, Danielle Mariano, director of
4 the Bureau of Budget and Fiscal Management; to my
5 right, Dr. Wil Del Pilar, deputy secretary of the
6 Office of Postsecondary and Higher Education; and
7 to my far right, Glenn Miller, deputy secretary of
8 the Office of Commonwealth Libraries.
9 I’m not going to take too much time
10 sharing around any specifics, but we’ll try our
11 best to be as concise and direct as possible. If
12 any clarifying statements are needed, please feel
13 free to do so, but I want to make sure to maximize
14 our time today with the committee.
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
16 I’ll start off with a short statement
17 here. You know, providing a quality education to
18 our children is one of the most important roles
19 that we play here in state government. It’s
20 something that many in this room, on both sides of
21 the aisle, are passionate about. And I mean
22 passionate about.
23 And the job of this committee is to
24 evaluate the details of the governor’s budget
25 proposal in order to more effectively evaluate its 10
1 merit. And when it comes to education, there are
2 many details I think we're probably still missing
3 yet. And in years past, governors have laid our
4 their visions on what they want education to be.
5 This year, the proposal seems to be mainly
6 focused on increasing or decreasing certain
7 specific line items. And during this committee, we
8 want to hear from you, Mr. Secretary, about how
9 these steep cuts to people transportation will be
10 implemented, what their plan for charter schools
11 is, and how you envision the advancing career and
12 technical education, and what initiatives that are
13 planned to save this Commonwealth and the school
14 districts money while providing more quality and
15 effective education for Pennsylvania students.
16 While we know more money cannot be the
17 only answer to solving the challenges facing our
18 education system, our caucus is open to increased
19 spending in education, but it must be coupled with
20 real reforms that will improve the lives of our
21 students.
22 The status quo is not working for many
23 Pennsylvania families, and we must be willing to be
24 innovative and restructure education in order to
25 meet demands of the 21st century. 11
1 Since this hearing will be a full day, I
2 wanted to go over the layout, which I've already
3 shared with Representative Markosek. The first
4 half of this hearing this morning will deal with
5 the issues related to the operations of the
6 Department of Education, higher education,
7 community colleges, libraries, et cetera.
8 The second half, this afternoon at 1
9 o'cl ock, wi l l focus on preK-through-twelve
10 education.
11 I'm asking members to try and frame their
12 questions with this in mind. And we will have
13 plenty of time in the afternoon to ask questions
14 about preK to twelve and so forth.
15 So, with that, Chairman Markosek, any
16 comments?
17 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: Thank you,
18 Chairman.
19 And thank you. Good morning. Thank you
20 for attending today.
21 Just maybe an aside, I’m a library guy. I
22 see Mr. Miller here. And, you know, I like to
23 think I’m a humble guy, too. But, Mr. Chairman, if
24 I might just pat myself on the back a little bit.
25 My favorite library in Pennsylvania is in a 12
1 community called Plum Borough. And the name on the
2 library is the Joseph Markosek Plum Community
3 Library. So, I’m very proud of that.
4 I like to read. And many years ago, I was
5 involved with the fundraising for that effort, when
6 they built it. And so, they were kind enough to
7 name it after me. So, I’m very proud of that.
8 So, anything we can do for libraries, I’m
9 all for it.
10 And I know it’s tough budget times, but,
11 nevertheless, thank you for allowing me to at least
12 get a couple of minutes of fame here relative to
13 that.
14 And thank you very much.
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: And it’s great.
16 And, Joe, I compliment you on that, because you and
17 I are probably in the very situation. I don’t have
18 a library named after me, although I chaired the
19 building of two libraries. So, you’ve done very
20 well.
21 But I wanted to recognize Representative
22 Nelson, who’s also joined us this morning.
23 And with that, we’re going to start off
24 with questioning with Representative Everett.
25 REPRESENTATIVE EVERETT: Thank you, 13
1 Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Secretary and your staff, for
2 coming today.
3 I wanted to ask a question about the
4 proposed funding for institutional assistance
5 grants. So, shift into that mode.
6 It's my understanding that there's a
7 proposal to cut funding for institutional
8 assistance grants by 50 percent. And I think
9 there’s a footnote to that that says that we’re not
10 really cutting it because we’re going to require
11 the colleges and universities that receive that
12 funding to match that. But, I mean, a 50 percent
13 cut and requiring the schools to match that, it
14 looks like a 50 percent cut to me.
15 And I got an e-mail today from the
16 president of Lycoming College, up in our area. And
17 they’re estimating that that’s going to be a cut to
18 the student grants that they’ll be able to make by
19 a hundred forty thousand dollars. I understand
20 Wilkes is estimating it’s going to cost them five
21 hundred thousand dollars.
22 And when we look at those grants, I mean,
23 those are -- that’s money that goes to Pennsylvania
24 students, most of whom are mid-income, low-income
25 families. I know at Lycoming now, for Pennsylvania 14
1 students that are attending there, their average
2 aid package as twenty-five thousand, and I know
3 that all the other private colleges and
4 universities across the state are at that level or
5 more.
6 And I’m just wondering, at a time when
7 we’re trying to help middle-income families go to
8 school, if this is where we want to be cutting a
9 program like that by 50 percent.
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: As we’re looking at the
11 recommendations made in our proposal for higher
12 education, I think it’s important -- and you may
13 hear me say this a few times today, but I think
14 it’s significant. This was an extremely difficult
15 budget year. I mean, this budget cycle. You know,
16 really, you know, engaged us to think deeply and
17 very comprehensively around the investments we’re
18 going to make, I mean, knowing that we’re currently
19 facing a three -billion-dollar shortfall.
20 The governor’s looking for two billion
21 additional dollars in inefficiencies in government,
22 making presenting a balanced budget or presenting a
23 budget that, you know, made sense and met our core
24 values to -- you know, to the general assembly was
25 no easy task. 15
1 So, many of the recommendations and
2 investments we recommended to make around higher
3 education just pretty much revolved around a number
4 of facts.
5 First, we know that we are focusing on
6 higher education attainment aligned to industry
7 certificates, two-year degrees, and four-year
8 degrees. So, we really have to broaden, you know,
9 our portfolio of options for students across the
10 Commonwealth.
11 Secondly, 70 percent of our high school
12 graduates attend public institutions -- the state’s
13 public institutions.
14 We also realize, when we’re looking at
15 specifically those institutions, the vast majority
16 of students in those communities tend to want to
17 commute or travel or attend a college that’s around
18 forty miles from their primary location. So, a lot
19 of thought was put into, you know, some of the flat
20 funding items as well as many of the areas that the
21 governor has chosen to invest in. However, we
22 knew, to submit a responsible budget, we could not
23 invest in everything.
24 You know, of course, as the secretary of
25 Education, I’d love to have been given the 16
1 opportunity to include everything as a line item,
2 but those are — you know, those are really
3 difficult decisions we had to make.
4 REPRESENTATIVE EVERETT: But it is -- you
5 will acknowledge that that is a 50 percent cut.
6 There’s a footnote that says that it’s not really a
7 cut, but this is a 50 percent cut to that program.
8 And it’s a program, you know, that we have. 49
9 percent of the folks who graduate from four-year
10 colleges go to private institutions, and it’s going
11 to just be a significant cut to those folks.
12 And would you agree with that?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: I think one of the
14 areas that we realize, some of the process that
15 goes into identifying how those funds are allocated
16 and distributed, I can’t say -- I can’t agree that
17 it’s a 50 percent cut, but I can agree that we did
18 not make a recommendation at this time to invest
19 additional dollars.
20 REPRESENTATIVE EVERETT: Thank you.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
22 Boyle.
23 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you,
24 Secretary Rivera. I appreciate you being here. I
25 know it’s a long day. I’ll try to be as concise as 17
1 possible.
2 Just in the last year or two, it was
3 announced, for the time in American history, that
4 student loan debt actually now surpasses credit
5 card debt. And I think, in a lot of publications,
6 we’ve seen how this has had a real systematic
7 affect on young people. Young people are delaying
8 buying a home. Young people are delaying getting
9 married. Young people, maybe most importantly, are
10 delaying starting small businesses, because of just
11 the huge amount of debt that they have.
12 Here in Pennsylvania, we actually have,
13 depending on what metric you’re going to use, we
14 either have the most expensive state college system
15 or the second most expensive.
16 In your opinion, why is that?
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we’ve looked to
18 make -- over the course of the past two years, and
19 now going into the third year, the governor has
20 made -- has recommended and has made historic
21 investments in higher education because we’ve
22 realized, with reduction in higher ed over the
23 course of the previous number of years,
24 institutions of higher ed transitioned those costs
25 to the student. And we knew, as a result, in order 18
1 to afford to send a student to an institution of
2 higher ed, whether a community college, a two-year
3 college, or a four-year college, families were
4 forced to borrow more and students were forced to
5 borrow more than they historically had in the past.
6 Now, we’re also engaging in a number of
7 strategies and initiatives, moving forward, that
8 I’d love to quickly share.
9 First, of course, continuing to make an
10 investment in higher ed. But, you know, Dr. Wil
11 Del Pilar and his team have really been focusing on
12 some other opportunities as well. This year, we’re
13 going to introduce the 15-to-Finish campaign, which
14 will work to encourage students to take thirty
15 credits per year to ensure on-time graduation.
16 One of the factors we know, you know, that
17 really goes into account when we’re looking at
18 students graduating on time or student debt is that
19 they’re undercredited and then, as a result, have
20 to take a sixth year and beyond.
21 We’re also looking at a college completion
22 program. So, we currently have 1.4 million
23 Commonwealth residents with over twenty college
24 credits and no degree. So, we wrote a limited
25 grants, so hope to engage in creating college 19
1 re-engagement centers.
2 And lastly, we’re starting to involve and
3 engage high school and college counselors together
4 to better inform students around completion of a
5 FAFSA, financial aid paperwork, and just how to
6 better engage with colleges and universities.
7 But first, it was the investment, and it
8 investment’s not made in higher ed in the past that
9 led to increased student tuition.
10 And, secondly, we can do a better job of
11 engaging parents, communities, and students to make
12 better informed decisions moving forward.
13 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you. That’s
14 a very comprehensive answer.
15 I just want to make one more point. Since
16 2004, the amount of student loan debt for students
17 in the PASSHE system has gone up 70 percent. We
18 cannot keep on putting the burden financially onto
19 young people in the state. It has to stop.
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
21 And we’re at a all-time low. We’ve -- you
22 know, we’ve significantly decreased the amount
23 contributed to higher education since 2010, and,
24 you know, that’s one of the realities that the
25 governor has recognized. 20
1 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Wanted to
3 mention we have been joined by Representative Dush.
4 The next questioner is Representative
5 Peifer.
6 REPRESENTATIVE PEIFER: Thank you,
7 Chairman.
8 And thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being
9 here.
10 I just want a follow up. When you look at
11 Commonwealth demographics for students who are
12 graduating out of high school, the numbers continue
13 to decline. When I had discussions with my
14 superintendents, they talk about the use of
15 attrition to complement those numbers in the class
16 and at home, because when a teacher retires, they
17 may not have to replace that teacher. And that’s
18 how they find savings.
19 I did talk to Chancellor Brogan about
20 this, and he said, You know what, from a higher
21 education level, that does not work. Programs need
22 to be more specific. Degrees are very specific.
23 And it’s hard, through attrition, to meet that need
24 and concern as far as reduced class size.
25 I just want to know what your thoughts are 21
1 as far as the declining population of graduates in
2 the Commonwealth.
3 Thank you.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, Representative, you
5 are correct. The number of high school graduates
6 has declined, has decreased, just the actual
7 number, not as a result of, you know, our high
8 school graduation rate or percentages.
9 Now, it’s interesting, as we look at -
10 you know, when we have conversations around the
11 transition from K-12 institutions or from high
12 school into higher ed, there are a number of
13 considerations we have to take into account. And
14 some of which is explained in what Chancellor
15 Brogan shared.
16 First, when we look at -- you know, when
17 we anticipate careers and, by the year 2020, 2025,
18 over 60 percent of careers are going to require
19 some type of postsecondary certificate, degree, or
20 advanced degree. So, that means, you know, every
21 year, the types of courses and the certificates and
22 degrees that institutions of higher ed are offering
23 evolves. When you think of just taking into
24 account the use of technology or what we like to
25 call at the STEM fields, you know, almost 80 22
1 percent of STEM-related occupations will require
2 some type of designation or degree, whether it be
3 computer science, engineering, math, et cetera.
4 So, where it be the number of students,
5 you know, may shift. It may decline. And we have
6 also noticed, in some years, it increases. But the
7 specialization that’s going to be needed to ensure
8 Pennsylvanians work in the next, you know,
9 decade -- you know, 2020 is right around the
10 corner -- we are going to have to really work with
11 our institutions of higher ed and our high schools
12 to engage much more customization to meet the needs
13 of the local community and, as a result, local
14 business and industry.
15 REPRESENTATIVE PEIFER: So, you’re saying
16 there may be fewer students, but they need -- more
17 students need to have these specialized degrees.
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. In order -- you
19 know, and not everything is aligned to a four-year
20 degree.
21 REPRESENTATIVE PEIFER: Right.
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: But the vast majority
23 of Pennsylvanians to work in the global economy are
24 going to have to have some kind of
25 industry-recognized, high yield credential. 23
1 REPRESENTATIVE PEIFER: Thank you.
2 Thank you, Chairman.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
4 Kinsey.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Thank you,
6 Mr. Chairman.
7 Mr. Secretary, actually, you just
8 addressed a portion of my question. Representative
9 Peifer and I were sort of, I guess, thinking along
10 the same lines. So, let me just stretch that a
11 little bit as well, because I was going to talk
12 about enrollment trends at institutions as well.
13 However, another point that the chancellor
14 brought up, as we talked about trends, as it
15 relates to PASSHE specifically, the chancellor
16 talked about the potential to consolidate in the
17 future some of the state institutions.
18 I believe you sit on the PASSHE board. Do
19 you have a feeling towards the consolidation? And
20 I think this deals with low enrollment specifically
21 at Cheyney University, I think maybe Mansfield
22 college. And, of course, alumni and administrators
23 for those two institutions, of course, are fighting
24 to maintain their own individuality and move
25 forward. 24
1 Do you have any thoughts towards that?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, first, I applaud
3 the board, the chancellor, and college presidents
4 to take on this endeavor, you know, to look at
5 potential consolidation or even consolidation of
6 programs. Because we realize, you know, a few
7 really important facts, and some of which I shared,
8 but I think it’s really worth re-mentioning. 70
9 percent of our high school graduates that go on to
10 college tend to choose those state institutions.
11 Many of those students choose the institutions that
12 are closest to home.
13 We also realize there are opportunities
14 when we look at working with, you know, with
15 government, working with local municipalities and
16 our system of higher ed to really provide
17 customization based on not only the needs of
18 students but the needs of the local business and
19 industry.
20 So, as we’re -- as, you know, they’re
21 looking at, you know, consolidation or looking at
22 potential merging of programs, services, and even
23 looking at specifically customization of programs,
24 what higher ed is going to look like, you know, in
25 the next decade is going to be vastly different 25
1 than the current traditional system we have now.
2 And I think this conversation they’re engaging in
3 will help them re-imagine how they better support
4 students graduating from high school.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Great. Thank you.
6 Now, I just want to jump to a whole
7 totally different subject -- well, not subject,
8 still related to education.
9 At the federal level, there’s been -- we
10 know we have a new administration, new secretary of
11 Education. Has there been -- I guess, in your
12 position, are there any things coming down the
13 pipeline from the federal level that could impact
14 what we do, how we do, that you’re department is
15 aware of at this moment?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, there’s lots of
17 discussion what is being introduced, proposed,
18 thought about at the federal level.
19 To be honest with you, and when the
20 governor took over, you know, this administration,
21 education was, and continues to be, his number one
22 priority. And, you know, as a result, we really
23 had to hit the ground running. And we’ve met with
24 many of the individuals in this room to share our
25 thoughts about the path moving forward in 26
1 education, everything from having a robust system
2 of accountability, looking at graduation standards,
3 looking at the investments that we’re making in ed,
4 a heavy focus on career and technical education
5 pathways.
6 So, for us, you know, we’ve continued to
7 move in that direction. We haven’t allowed what’s
8 happening at the national level to distract us
9 around, you know, what Pennsylvania needs.
10 And at the end of the day, we had a really
11 good plan, moving forward. ESSA was adopted. We
12 found a way to kind of integrate our ESSA work into
13 the work that we all had agreed upon doing, moving
14 forward. And now that there’s another change,
15 we’re just going to do the same. We’re going to
16 find ways to integrate, you know, what, you know,
17 federal mandates are to meeting the needs of the
18 Commonwealth. Because, at the end of the day, you
19 know, we’re ultimately responsible for our kids.
20 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Sure. Right.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: And we can’t let
22 anything that happens above us distract us from
23 that mission.
24 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Well, in closing,
25 I just want to thank you, Mr. Secretary. You know, 27
1 you’ve been to Philadelphia County many times, met
2 with constituents there, as well as other
3 stakeholders. And I just appreciate the work that
4 you’re doing and just want to say thank you for
5 what you’ve done over the past few years.
6 So, thank you very much.
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you for your
8 support.
9 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Sure.
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
11 Dunbar.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you,
13 Mr. Chairman.
14 Thank you, Secretary.
15 Just a brief follow-up on the discussion
16 about higher ed. As you -- as you had noted,
17 higher ed is constantly evolving, and our schools
18 have constantly evolved over the years. Where
19 fifteen, twenty years ago our state system schools
20 didn’t offer all the variety of majors that they
21 presently do, and they’ve kept adding on and on, to
22 maintain university status and whatnot. So, they
23 have been trying to attract that other than
24 dwindling amount of students that are graduating.
25 They are trying to attract more, while, at the same 28
1 time, our state-related schools have gone to this
2 model of smaller satellite schools that didn’t
3 exist twenty years and are competing for the same
4 people.
5 Meanwhile, at the state level, four
6 hundred fifty million, is that about right for the
7 state system? And a hundred million more than
8 that, five hundred fifty million for state-related
9 schools. And they’re essentially fighting with
10 each other over the same students.
11 So, as secretary of Education and the
12 deputy secretary, have you actually had dialogue
13 with them about -- as to is there some way that we
14 can do this with funneling a billion dollars toward
15 these institutions to beat each other up for the
16 same dwindling amount of kids. So, I’m just
17 curious.
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: It is a conversation
19 we’ve had, and, specifically, working within the
20 state-related, the state system, and community
21 colleges.
22 I can share with you one of the positives
23 that happened as a result of the conversations are
24 that the secretary had engaged with in higher ed.
25 Under our administration, together, we created the 29
1 cross-articulation agreement, where community
2 college credits were recognized as, you know, as
3 a -- as a system of continuation into the four-year
4 institutions. Because what was happening at one
5 point in time, if you were leaving a community
6 college and going on to a four-year system and
7 graduating, you were counted as a drop-out for the
8 community college. So, there was no incentive for
9 a community college to create, you know, an
10 articulation pathway to one of the four-year
11 institutions.
12 Once we created that credit articulation
13 agreement and the community college and higher ed
14 were both recognized for that graduate, they
15 started working much more closely together.
16 Secondly, as we’ve been looking at, you
17 know, potential -- or encouraging potential
18 partnerships with satellite campuses and our state
19 system of higher ed, there’s one challenge that,
20 you know, has been created over -- you know, in the
21 past decade. And that was, when we started to
22 reduce, you know, the funding that went out to the
23 state system and state-related institutions, we
24 told them, You need to be -- You need to create a
25 better business or market model, you know, for your 30
1 institution. You need to -- you need to really
2 start to look differently and attract more students
3 if you want to bring down, you know, our tuition in
4 the state, because we can’t afford to -- you know,
5 to support this endeavor anymore.
6 And so what they started to do was, they
7 started to work to attract more out-of-state and
8 out-of-country students. They started to change
9 their business model to take on a much more broader
10 scope, you know, to generate additional revenue
11 because they knew they weren’t getting the revenue
12 from us.
13 So, now that, over the course of the past
14 two years that we’ve been making these investments,
15 we have been encouraging them to think and act
16 differently as institutions of higher ed.
17 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: And I appreciate
18 that. But, at the same time, it seems like the
19 state-relateds are also -- well, you said that most
20 kids graduated school. I can’t remember the
21 percent.
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: 70 percent.
23 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: 70 percent goes to
24 state system schools.
25 And I’ve had -- my four daughters have -- 31
1 two have gone to state systems and one’s gone to a
2 state-related school, depending upon what their
3 majors were.
4 But now those lines seem to be blurred.
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah.
6 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: And it seems like
7 we just keep throwing money, which is fine, I mean,
8 we’re all for funding education, but they’re
9 struggling. The state systems schools are
10 struggling because of lack of enrollment. I mean,
11 their enrollment’s down by 20 percent. And they’re
12 losing it to the state-related schools, which we’re
13 also funding.
14 And I’m just having trouble figuring out
15 how we fix this.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: And Wil can share a
17 couple of the specifics.
18 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: I’ll just say
19 briefly, Representative, that we’ve been working
20 with the state-relateds, the state system,
21 community colleges. And we’ve had two discussions
22 at the state-wide level here in Harrisburg around
23 how we align to our attainment challenge goal.
24 So, the state board of education adopted a
25 60 percent attainment challenge -- or attainment 32
1 goal by 2025. So, by 2025, you know, as the
2 secretary said, over 63 percent of the jobs require
3 some type of postsecondary credential. So, we’ve
4 been having conversations around how we align all
5 of the work that we’re doing in postsecondary ed to
6 make sure we get there. We’re currently around
7 44.7, 45 percent of Commonwealth residents have a
8 postsecondary credential that has value in the
9 workplace. And we need to be at 63 percent.
10 And so, we’ve been having these
11 conversations at the state-wide level. While the
12 number of high school students who are graduating
13 has decreased, the number of students who are going
14 into postsecondary has increased. So, in 2009,
15 around 57 percent of high school graduates in
16 Pennsylvania went on to postsecondary. Last year,
17 it was over -- just over 60 percent. And so, we
18 see the proportion of students actually increasing.
19 So, in real numbers, when we look at the
20 number of high school graduates, in 2009, it was
21 around a hundred thirty-nine thousand. Last year,
22 it was around a hundred nineteen thousand, but the
23 difference in students who actually went in to
24 postsecondary was eight thousand students. So, the
25 high school class is shrinking, but the number of 33
1 students going into postsecondary.
2 So, how do we align those services? So,
3 these are conversations we are engaging at the
4 state level to try and ensure that all publicly
5 supported institutions are pushing in the same
6 direction to make sure we can meet that 2025 goal
7 of 6 0 percent.
8 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you.
9 And not only pushing in the same direction
10 but not beating the crap out of each other in the
11 process.
12 Thank you.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
14 Schweyer.
15 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: Thank you,
16 Mr. Chairman.
17 Mr. Secretary, how you doing? Over here.
18 I would like to change topics just a
19 little bit, if I could, sir. We’ve discussed
20 higher education for most of this meeting. And
21 with a notable exception of, I believe it was, the
22 Plum Township Library, we haven’t talked about much
23 else. And I’d like to, if I could.
24 A couple things. A recent study in
25 downtown Allentown indicated that something like 80 34
1 percent of my poorest and most at risk residents in
2 my downtown region only have access to the Internet
3 through their mobile devices. And so, I know this
4 is not a new phenomenon. This is what we see in a
5 lot of our poorer communities. And their single
6 best point of access to the Internet, whether
7 they’re job seekers or just looking for basic
8 information and how to navigate all of our myriad
9 of services, is through our public libraries.
10 And, at the same time, we have a huge
11 number of new Americans in Allentown, as you have
12 discussed a number of times, where English may not
13 be their first language. So, they often will use
14 not our libraries but our adult literacy centers
15 more for English education, for literacy training
16 and those sorts of things.
17 By us not funding at the more robust level
18 our libraries and our adult literacy, I’m really
19 worried that we are underserving a very vulnerable
20 population of Pennsylvanians, certainly those in
21 Allentown.
22 So, I guess the very simple, open-ended
23 question for you, Mr. Secretary, is how can we do
24 this better, and what can we do better, given the
25 budgetary restraints that we are all facing? 35
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. I will
2 start us off and then I’m sure Glenn may have, you
3 know, some great additions to what I’m going to
4 share.
5 First, I want to thank you for bringing
6 libraries to light. Over the course of the past,
7 you know, ten years, I’ve been practically, now, in
8 central Pennsylvania, I’ve learned so much more
9 around the interworkings of libraries across the
10 Commonwealth.
11 First, you really raised or cited an
12 important stat. As we’re looking at the percentage
13 or the number of Pennsylvania residents who have
14 access, you know, to some form of connectivity has
15 increased, or we think it’s extremely high, but you
16 really — you raised an important distinction.
17 Many of those individuals have access through their
18 telephones or through -- you know, through Smart
19 phones or mobile phones, and it’s not the same.
20 It’s not the same as having access, you know, to a
21 much more robust technology. And libraries serve
22 to provide exactly that, not only in, you know, our
23 poorer urban communities, but, for some, it’s the
24 only place to connect or find connectivity in our
25 rural co mmunities. 36
1 And, you know, as a result, I had, over
2 the course of the past two years, although
3 recommending, you know, level funding this year,
4 the governor started to reinvest in our libraries,
5 and we started to think differently around how our
6 libraries look and really support the community.
7 Not only now are they -- you know, being the hub
8 for technology and to present and share resources,
9 but we’re starting to build labs such as
10 Makerspaces in our libraries. So, schools, local
11 institutions, and community members after school,
12 even during the day, are starting to connect to
13 really engage in STEM-related activities in our
14 public libraries.
15 You know, last year, you know, there were,
16 you know, over six hundred thousand students who
17 participated in reading programs in our public
18 libraries, and that number has continued to
19 increase over the course of the past two years.
20 So, we are, again, re-envisioning and
21 re-imagining libraries as the hubs of our community
22 and a place to continue to find, you know,
23 continued support and connecting support for some
24 of our most vulnerable citizens. And not only in
25 urban districts, as you shared, but it really has 37
1 become the backbone and meeting a specific need in
2 our rural communities.
3 Glenn, you want to say anything?
4 DEPUTY SECRETARY MILLER: Let me just add,
5 if I may, that you’re entirely correct, that
6 libraries are seeing that growth and there’s an
7 increasing reliance on libraries by vulnerable
8 populations, for sure.
9 We are confronted, of course, as the
10 secretary’s already mentioned, with a very
11 difficult economic condition and constraints on the
12 budget. We also know, from my experience, that the
13 governor is an avid reader and a strong supporter
14 of literacy and libraries, and so, we’re hoping
15 that, as the economy improves and as resources
16 improve, we’re going to be able to make those
17 improvements.
18 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: Well, I
19 appreciate that. And I don’t want -- while I saw
20 the green light over there, I don’t want to ignore
21 the part about -- about adult education and adult
22 literacy centers. So, if you can just briefly
23 touch upon that before our time is up, gentlemen.
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: Sure. So, we’ve, of
25 course, continued to request and continue to invest 38
1 in some of our adult basic education programs and
2 our literacy centers to the tune of about 2.9 -- a
3 little over 2.9 million dollars. But we’re not
4 only stopping there. And as we -- as I work with
5 both of my colleagues to the right, we’ve also been
6 engaging other agencies to really expand what adult
7 basic literacy and adult literacy and adult
8 training programs look like in the Commonwealth.
9 You know, so, one, it’s not only making the
10 investments in the current systems that are
11 supporting our adult learners, but we’re also
12 looking at ways to connect -- to continue to
13 connect in a meaningful way with L and I and the
14 Department of Human Services to kind of coalesce
15 together to better serve those constituents.
16 So, one, resources, but, two, also
17 re-imagining and re-looking at how we’re providing.
18 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: Great. Great.
19 Thank you so much.
20 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
22 Roae.
23 I also wanted to announce that we’ve been
24 joined by Representative Gillen.
25 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Thank you, 39
1 Mr. Secretary, for being here to testify.
2 The new union contract between PASSHE and
3 APSCUF has, you know, two pay raises a year for the
4 professors. There’s the general pay increase and
5 the step increase. The union contract requires
6 professors to be in the classroom teaching twelve
7 hours a week to be considered full time. 7 percent
8 of professors can be on paid sabbatical leave at
9 any given time. Tuition is free for the children
10 and spouses of the professors. The union president
11 at each campus only has to teach nine hours a week
12 to be considered full time. Teachers -- or
13 professors that teach more than twelve hours a week
14 get paid overtime to do that. Department heads get
15 paid extra, even if it’s a one-person department.
16 My question is, did you vote for that new
17 union contract? And do you think that new union
18 contract will help keep tuition affordable at
19 PASSHE colleges?
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: We -- we did vote to
21 support that -- to support that union contract.
22 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Did you vote "yes"
23 on it, sir?
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: My designee voted "yes"
25 on it, with my agreement. Yes. 40
1 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Okay. And do you
2 think those things I just said will help make
3 college more affordable at the state-owned
4 colleges?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: I think it’s -- there
6 are a number of issues you have to look at. One,
7 of course, is college affordability, as you just
8 shared. Secondly, we have to look at college
9 competitiveness in terms of the employees and the
10 faculty you were able to recruit and engage and
11 retain to continue providing instruction, high
12 quality instruction, to the students in their care.
13 You know, as I shared earlier, and I won’t
14 get into the real specifics again, but, systems of
15 higher ed have really been forced to take on a
16 business model and, you know, look to attract
17 students based on the alignment of the pathway they
18 provide.
19 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: I apologize, sir.
20 We have a quick time frame. I want to get through
21 some more questions.
22 Now, prior to the new union contract, the
23 PASSHE colleges were already in the top 15 percent
24 in the country in pay scale for the professors. Do
25 you feel it’s necessary -- or did you feel it was 41
1 necessary to have a new contract with two pay
2 raises a year to make it even higher than that?
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I’ll give you a
4 brief answer, since I know you have a number. 70
5 percent of our students who graduated from high
6 school go to the state system of higher education.
7 And I want to make sure that the 70 percent of the
8 students that go to the institutions have access to
9 the highest caliber and highest quality of
10 professors.
11 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: All right. My next
12 question, staffing at the department, according to
13 page two of the book that we got, in 2015, there
14 were three hundred eighty-three filled positions.
15 In 2016, three hundred eighty-nine filled
16 positions. And the chart here shows that it’s
17 going to be four hundred sixty-five for the new
18 fiscal year? Is that accurate? Or am I reading
19 the chart wrong?
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Bear with me. I’m
21 going to pull up the same chart you have, to make
22 sure we’re sharing the same stats.
23 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: And it shows that
24 the adjustments to the authorized staffing is
25 negative-ten, but the actual field staffing, if I’m 42
1 reading the chart right, it went from three
2 eighty-three to three eighty-nine, and in the new
3 budget it will be four sixty-five. Is that
4 accurate?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: The current number of
6 positions we have in GGO on my sheet is total -
7 so, if you looked at specifically total is four
8 forty-six. However, state-funded positions is two
9 hundred and five.
10 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Okay. That’s
11 different than the information that we have.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: You may be looking at
13 the total. You may be including our federal
14 complement which we have to employ to meet our
15 federal -
16 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Well, the charts
17 that we have in our material, it shows the state
18 was one hundred and ninety-one in 2015, two hundred
19 in 2016, and budgeted for two hundred and
20 twenty-four.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. ’16-’17 budgeted
22 two thirty-four, ’17-’18 budgeted two twenty-four.
23 We had a complement ceiling freeze of vacancies,
24 and we currently had a number of positions that
25 were being processed at the time, which is what 43
1 brought us up to two thirty-four.
2 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: But it’s more than
3 it was in 2015. Like, if you go to the two
4 twenty-four, that’s more than the one ninety-one
5 you had in 2015. If I’m looking at the chart
6 right.
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, there were a
8 number -- so, when we had the 2015 complement
9 submitted, we had a number of positions that were
10 being -- that were being processed. So, I’ll give
11 you one example, our Office of School Improvement
12 has four positions in that office that were -- that
13 we’ve filled and are in the process of filling.
14 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: So, there’s
15 basically seventy-six more people than there were
16 in 2015, if I’m reading the chart right.
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: No.
18 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: No? I’ll have to
19 follow up with you, sir, to get more information on
20 the chart. Because the chart makes it look like it
21 would be four sixty-five. In 2015, it was only
22 three eighty-three.
23 Thank you, sir.
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you,
25 Representative. 44
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We’ve been
2 joined by Representative Curtis Thomas as well.
3 And at this point I’ll recognize
4 Representative Bullock.
5 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you,
6 Mr. Chairman.
7 Good morning, Mr. Secretary. How are you
8 doing today?
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: Well. Thank you. Good
10 morning.
11 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Before I jump
12 into my questions, I just wanted to gently remind
13 my colleague that we receive a full salary, too,
14 and last I checked, we are not in session every
15 day. And I think that our professors may not teach
16 every day or nine hours a week or whatever it may
17 be, but they do a lot of work in the office or with
18 their students in meeting with them, and that is
19 all counted towards the time and commitment they
20 make to providing quality training to our
21 educators.
22 So, my questions, I wanted to talk about
23 the diverse array of options we have in our
24 institutions. We have over fourteen community
25 colleges, fourteen state-owned universities, four 45
1 state-related universities, eighty-eight private
2 college and universities, and a number of
3 theological seminaries and much, much more.
4 However, it’s my understanding that we
5 haven’t had an update to our higher education plan.
6 And this great network and treasure of higher
7 education options hasn’t really been looked at and
8 coordinated in a way. I believe the last time it
9 was updated may have been twenty years ago. It was
10 originally drafted back when we didn’t have a state
11 system. We didn’t have community colleges. And
12 so, therefore, it’s really outdated.
13 Can you tell me what, if any, plans there
14 are to update the plan? And what would that look
15 like?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
17 The master plans for basic -- for basic
18 education and higher education actually happen to
19 be one of the gifts we inherited, you know, as an
20 administration and in terms of updating. Other
21 than a portion of the master plan in 2015, the
22 large majority of both basic ed and higher ed
23 continue to be outdated.
24 Our team has actually just -- well, not
25 just -- over the course of this year, our team has 46
1 been working with the -- you know, with our State
2 Board of Education to start to engage in the
3 research to update the master plan. So, that work
4 has started now under this administration. So, we
5 would hope that over the course of the next couple
6 years, we will continue to have open dialogue.
7 We’ve done -- we’re doing a lot of the
8 research now around many of the components that
9 should be attached to the master plan, both from
10 basic ed and higher ed. And we continue to move
11 forward to consult the state board around the
12 specifics that should be included as part of that
13 master plan. And that’s work that we’ll be
14 engaging in over the course of this year.
15 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you for
16 sharing that.
17 And, lastly, my question is one in regard
18 of your own staff and personnel in regards to the
19 diversity of your staff.
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we’ve actually been
21 working, you know, increasingly hard, you know to
22 diversify the staff at the department. And, you
23 know, we’ve seen some -- some improvement, not
24 where we want it to be, but we absolutely have
25 diversified our staff and diversified, you know, 47
1 leadership and the members of our staff.
2 I also do want to share, because we
3 were -- we have this conversation often. And
4 whereas we’ve been looking, you know, by -- you
5 know, by increasing -- or by, you know, casting a
6 wider net in terms of our engagement, not only have
7 we been identifying and diversifying the staff in
8 the department, but, really, the conversation of
9 the footprint of the department is, you know -- has
10 also become much more diverse.
11 So, you know, I guess, to simply share it,
12 although there are a number of folks who don’t want
13 to necessarily come to Harrisburg and join, you
14 know, the staff of the Department of Education,
15 however, they have been making themselves available
16 to sit on work groups, to take leadership positions
17 locally to help inform our work. So, when we
18 share, like, the thousand of stakeholders we
19 engage, that is an extremely diverse work group,
20 both in, you know, racial, ethnic diversity, gender
21 diversity, socioeconomic diversity, and diversity
22 in experience.
23 So, our network is extremely diverse. We
24 just, every day, work with them to try to get them
25 to come to Harrisburg and join the department. 48
1 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: I appreciate
2 that. And I think having all of those voices at
3 the table is important to have informed policy and
4 informed decisionmaking about the students that we
5 serve and in your staff as well.
6 So, if you don’t mind sharing separately
7 those numbers, either in writing after the hearing,
8 that would be -- that would be appreciated.
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: Will do.
10 And I have it here and ready -- took me a
11 minute to find it — but I’ll forward it to you.
12 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Great. Thank
13 you.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
15 Greiner.
16 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thanks,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 Good morning, Mr. Secretary.
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good morning.
20 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: As we’ve
21 discussed earlier, Pennsylvania has a great variety
22 of higher education institutions. We have quite a
23 few, the two-year community colleges, technical
24 schools. Of course, you know, we have four-year
25 public and private colleges and universities. 49
1 Given that diversity, what role does the
2 Department of Education play in making sure those
3 sectors work together in that we are using our
4 resources wisely -
5 No. Let me just continue.
6 For example, last week, Thaddeus Stevens
7 College of Technology was here to testify, and
8 they’re always -- has been a great demand for their
9 graduates. And Commonwealth businesses have had -
10 there’s many positions, technical positions that
11 need to be filled and aren’t being filled.
12 What can the department do to help ensure
13 that the state’s higher education institutions are
14 producing these type of workers that the state
15 needs? That’s one.
16 Then, two more questions following up.
17 Some states are actually trying to do performance
18 funding for higher education. That’s something I
19 know some of us have discussed. Would you be
20 supportive of something like that here in
21 Pennsylvania?
22 And then, finally the last question, of
23 course, this kind of ties it all in. You’re in
24 charge. If you could do anything you wanted to
25 change the way higher education works in 50
1 Pennsylvania, what would you recommend? What would
2 you do?
3 Thank you.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
5 So, first, I think what we are doing and
6 some of what I think we have some oversight to
7 provide as it relates to that higher education
8 alignment, first we can incentivize better behavior
9 between — in working between our K-12 system and
10 higher ed. That’s some of what we’re trying to do
11 now through the recommendation of the Future Ready
12 PA Index, which would absolutely take into account
13 our 339 plans, which are our college career
14 readiness plans submitted by schools, and encourage
15 and really push for schools and school districts to
16 submit those plans.
17 Secondly, when we have been looking
18 specifically at the recommendations made under
19 Senate Bill 880 for graduation requirements, we’re
20 looking to incentivize dual enrollment, career and
21 technical education certificate attainment as
22 graduation requirements, you know, as well as that
23 K-12 to higher ed alignment.
24 One of the challenges I think we face now
25 is, historically, our systems in K-12 and higher 51
1 education have been treated separately and in
2 silos. And then when you take all of our higher ed
3 institutions, they’ve been treated separately. So,
4 there’s -- we’ve never, as a system, incentivized
5 them working together to continue to create a
6 continuum of services.
7 One really good example I’ll share with
8 you. Our college acceptance criteria standards do
9 not align with graduation standards. So, one of
10 the conversations we’re having now is bringing
11 counselors and higher ed admissions counselors
12 together to say, hey, you know, what do you need -
13 what must you graduate with in high school in order
14 to move on seamlessly into higher ed. That became
15 extremely important when we were looking at
16 computer science requirements. You know, currently
17 if you take a computer science class in lieu of
18 math and graduate, you may not get into one of the
19 higher education schools because there is no
20 alignment. So, we are doing that.
21 Secondly, you know, really taking a look
22 at the local business and industry needs, to
23 incentivize the programs that are being offered
24 through two-year, four-year, and
25 industry-credentialed programs. We’re starting to 52
1 move in that direction, but it’s difficult because
2 there are some institutions, both private and
3 public, that don’t want to let go of the current
4 program offerings.
5 And performance funding -- a little more
6 quickly, here -- but performance funding, it’s one
7 of the items that actually Dr. Barron, the
8 president of Penn State, shared as a potential, you
9 know, cost savings factor. And we haven’t gotten
10 into specifics, but it is -- our team and his team
11 will be considering and discussing those
12 opportunities moving forward.
13 You know, and, lastly, I think one of the
14 challenges with the department, the "anything I
15 want,” you know, with done, everything we do seems
16 to always have to be compartmentalized, so that the
17 history K-12 and, you know, and higher education.
18 It would be nice, in some of these instances, to
19 try to re-imagine, you know, kind of many of those
20 silos. If we could create more -- for example,
21 two-plus-two-plus-two models. So, two years of
22 high school, two years of gen ed, you know, college
23 and high school credits, and then two years of
24 specialization on an industry certificate or
25 two-year degree or four-year degree, you know, 53
1 that’s something that I’d love to continue to see
2 grow in the Commonwealth and better serve our kids.
3 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thank you,
4 Mr. Secretary.
5 I know it’s very complicated. And
6 Representative Dunbar made a comment, we seem like
7 we’re competing amongst our schools and we’re
8 trying our best to try to spend our dollars wisely.
9 So, I appreciate your time. Appreciate
10 your staff being here today.
11 Thank you.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
13 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
14 Daley.
15 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Thank you,
16 Chairman.
17 Good morning, Secretary Rivera. Over
18 here.
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: Over in the corner.
20 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: So, I have two
21 questions. One is going to be on campus sexual
22 assault, and the other one, the administrative fee
23 for higher ed institutions. Not related, but I
24 think both interesting.
25 So, I know that last year the budget 54
1 included a million dollars for the It’s On Us
2 campaign to help combat sexual assault and
3 harassment on campuses and that the department
4 issued thirty-six grants to colleges and
5 universities around the Commonwealth. So, the
6 governor has requested another million dollars this
7 year for the program.
8 Could you give us an update on what
9 colleges and universities are doing with these
10 grants and if there are any initial promising
11 results?
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: I’m going to -- I’m
13 going to defer to my colleague who is actively
14 engaged in it.
15 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Sure. Okay. Thank
16 you.
17 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: There are a
18 variety of activities that colleges are currently
19 engaged in. There are, you know, for example,
20 green dots. There’s a lot of bystander
21 intervention, train the trainer-type models that
22 colleges engaged in.
23 We can provide a pretty detailed summary
24 of the thirty-six different models that colleges
25 are proposing. We currently don’t have any 55
1 results. Funding has started to go out in January,
2 and so we still don’t have results as they begin to
3 engage in this work. But we will be collecting
4 data from these institutions around if there are
5 any drops or increases in reporting, the number of
6 people who are trained. So, we do have a report
7 that will be going out to them when we collect it,
8 and we’re willing to provide that to the
9 representative.
10 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: When do you
11 anticipate the report would be available?
12 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: We expect to
13 collect that data, I believe, in June of this year.
14 So, we should be getting data in June.
15 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: And you’ll be
16 sharing that with the general assembly.
17 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Absolutely.
18 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: And one more
19 question on that. Thirty-six colleges and
20 universities -- was the application a competitive
21 application process?
22 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: It was a
23 competitive application. I believe we received
24 sixty-five applications for the million dollars,
25 and we awarded up to thirty thousand dollars per 56
1 campus.
2 We are going to also be hosting -- we’re
3 hoping to host here in Harrisburg a statewide
4 convening to talk about some of the best practices
5 and some of the early wins we’re seeing in this
6 work.
7 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: That’s great.
8 And were they all -- like public, private,
9 community -
10 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Yes. Every
11 sector was funded.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Great.
13 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: So, public -
14 all the publicly supported applied. We also
15 received -- a medical school applied as well. So,
16 we’ve funded graduate, undergraduate, two-year,
17 four-year, all along the continuum.
18 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: That’s great.
19 Thank you. I look forward to that report.
20 So, on the administrative fee for higher
21 ed institutions, the budget indicates the
22 department wants to institute an administrative fee
23 on higher ed that’s for services provided by PDE.
24 And it’s expected to bring in 290,000 dollars.
25 Can you tell us about what those services 57
1 are, who would be required to pay the fee, and what
2 you anticipate the fee -- how that would be
3 structured?
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: I can start us off, and
5 Wil can share some of the more specifics.
6 This year, in working with the general
7 assembly, the governor, and the Department of Ed
8 engaged or became part of what’s known as SARA with
9 higher ed institutions, which allows for broader
10 credit articulation agreements with institutions
11 across the country, which would help in attracting
12 both new students into our systems of higher ed,
13 you know, and allowing for a really truer
14 accounting of credits while also, at the same time,
15 providing anyone that wants to move on to other
16 institutions.
17 We are requesting an administrative fee to
18 process, you know, the SARA applications and the
19 SARA process. We didn’t want to, you know, engage
20 in a new process and then ask, you know, the
21 general assembly to fund that position. So, it’s
22 probably one of the bigger items of discussion.
23 The second biggest -- Wil, do you think
24 there’s anything else worth mentioning other than
25 the SARA applications? 58
1 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: I’d say,
2 quickly, we went from zero institutions to
3 sixty-five institutions. So, we’re the third -- in
4 terms of members in SARA, we are the third most
5 populous state with SARA members. We’re required
6 to do reporting, and we have no staffing to do that
7 reporting, and so the fees would pay for staffing.
8 After a year, we would look at the budget
9 again, since -- and then look at the regulation and
10 determine if the fee needs to be adjusted.
11 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Okay. And I’m not
12 sure that I’m hearing that -- was it SARA?
13 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Yeah. It
14 stands for statewide Authorization Reciprocity
15 Agreement.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Okay. So, it’s a
17 national kind of thing that you joined and now -
18 okay. Is there a write-up about that that you can
19 provide to us at some point?
20 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: It was
21 legislatively allowed for us to join.
22 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Oh, okay. Okay.
23 All right.
24 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: But we can
25 provide you that. 59
1 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Great. Thank you.
2 Thank you, Chairman.
3 Thank you, Secretary.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
6 I’m going to ask Representative Curtis
7 Thomas, he would like to introduce some of the
8 students he brought with him today.
9 So, Representative Thomas, if you want to
10 recognize who you brought with you today.
11 Representative Thomas, if you don’t mind
12 taking a mic, just so that they can hear you.
13 Since -
14 REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS: -- [inaudible] -
15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: The individuals
16 who are watching on TV might want to hear you a
17 little bit better.
18 REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS: Can you hear,
19 Mr. Chairman?
20 Let me thank you. Thank you, Chairman
21 Markosek. And let me thank all of the members of
22 the committee, Education Committee -
23 Appropriations Committee for this opportunity.
24 Some of you know that every year I have
25 two days at the Capitol, one at state capitol, one 60
1 at Washington, to expose young people to the
2 legislative process.
3 And I have some exciting young people with
4 me today sitting in on the committee. And we
5 have -- I know some of our members have had a
6 chance to attend St. Joe’s Prep, which borders
7 Representative Bullock’s and my district. So, we
8 have some students from St. Joe’s Prep. We have
9 some students from vocational -- Dobbins Vocational
10 Technical High School. And we have some young
11 people from High School of Engineering and Science,
12 which also borders Representative Bullock and my
13 district. And I believe we have someone from
14 Parkway Center City High School.
15 So, these are young people who are working
16 hard and want to fulfill their dreams. And I know
17 that, based on what we do or don’t do in the
18 Appropriations Committee, will ultimately impact
19 what they are doing.
20 So, I want to thank you.
21 And I want to thank them for taking the
22 time to be here today.
23 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 And I can’t forget one of our stellar
25 principals of Philadelphia, Dr. Toni Damon, who’s 61
1 the principal of vocational — Dobbins Vocational
2 Technical School.
3 Thank you.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you,
5 Representative Thomas.
6 With that, we will go to Representative
7 Knowles.
8 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Mr. Secretary and members of the panel,
11 let me thank you for coming today to testify.
12 Over the past year, members of our caucus
13 have expressed a certain amount of frustration in
14 terms of getting responses and information from the
15 Department of Education. A few weeks ago, the
16 auditor general testified before this committee,
17 and I want to make sure that I get this right,
18 because it’s pretty strong stuff. His statement
19 was: You want to talk about a level of
20 frustration? Try dealing with the Pennsylvania
21 Department of Education. You want to bang your
22 head against a wall sometimes. It’s more -- it’s a
23 more fruitful endeavor.
24 Mr. Secretary, I would just ask, how would
25 you respond to that? Do you think that there needs 62
1 to be improvement in the terms of communicating
2 with other agencies?
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I wasn’t aware that
4 he made that comment. It’s — you know, it’s
5 interesting and, I guess, an unfortunate comment if
6 he’s speaking on behalf of the current Department
7 of Education as well as, you know, the current
8 administration.
9 As a matter of fact, I pride myself on
10 making myself personally available to any member of
11 the general assembly who has called our office or
12 requested a meeting, both either formal or
13 informal.
14 Secondly, the auditor general and I,
15 whenever he’s come -- whenever he’s called to the
16 Department of Education, I’ve scheduled personal
17 meetings with he as well. I was under the
18 impression that over the course of the past two
19 years he and I had a great relationship, because
20 we’d meet both formally and informally. The
21 members of my team meet formally and informally
22 with the members of his staff.
23 We, especially as it relates to education
24 specifically, we have formal and informal monthly
25 meetings with either member of the chairmen of the 63
1 Education Committee or a member of their staff of
2 the Education Committee. I would say that, you
3 know, probably one of my, you know, biggest areas
4 that I’m proud to announce is that we have been one
5 of -- you know, one of the most accessible and
6 engaging, you know, departments that I can
7 remember.
8 And not only here in Harrisburg. I mean,
9 I will make it a point to share with you in two
10 years, we’ve had, you know, almost fifty or sixty
11 listening sessions, where we’ve engaged thousands
12 of education stakeholders -- teachers, principals,
13 assistant principals, superintendents, advocates,
14 business and industry partners. You know, I mean,
15 we -- you know, we make ourselves as readily and
16 easily available as possible.
17 And if there’s a piece of information that
18 has not been shared, I can pretty much wager that
19 it hasn’t been asked for.
20 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Are you saying,
21 sir, that his -- the statement is unfounded and
22 that there is no room for improvement in terms of
23 your communication?
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: I learned a long time
25 ago, and I didn’t hear the statement with my own 64
1 ears, so I don’t have a context of that statement,
2 so I won’t respond to the statement specifically.
3 But I will share with you that he and I meet
4 individually. We’ve met formally and informally.
5 And any time his team calls mine, they sit down and
6 have a real concise and deliberate discussion.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Okay. Real
8 quickly, I have one more real quick question. I
9 watched an advertisement, a commercial on TV the
10 other night, and it was the promotion of the
11 state-owned system. And it was well done. And
12 they noted in that commercial that 80 percent of
13 the graduates from the state system remain in
14 Pennsylvania.
15 Now, based on the fact that you have that
16 number, I would ask, how many of our young people
17 that graduate from the state-owned universities are
18 able to get jobs in their field of study, in their
19 major?
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, that’s not a data
21 set specifically that we have been historically
22 able to collect. But it is something that we’re
23 working on moving forward. It’s one of the
24 governor’s, you know, metrics -- his metrics that
25 he’d like to include. 65
1 What we have started doing is identifying
2 once students graduate from high school and go on
3 to our systems of higher ed, which is why I was
4 able to share the 70 percent state system rate, but
5 that is something that we’re working on.
6 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you,
7 Mr. Secretary. I think it’s very important to have
8 that data, because I think that -- I mean, when
9 Thaddeus Stevens was here, they were able to tell
10 us that 96 percent of their kids go to work the
11 Monday after they graduate. And I think that
12 information is very important. And I commend you
13 for beginning to put that information together.
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: Actually that 96
15 percent number for Thaddeus Stevens, many of those
16 students don’t even graduate. They actually
17 start -- they show up for work before they even
18 graduate.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: That shows what a
20 good job they’re doing.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Prior to graduation.
22 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you very
23 much, sir.
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thaddeus will 66
1 appreciate that statement.
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: There’s a little plug
3 there, Chairman.
4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
5 Gainey.
6 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Good morning,
7 Mr. Secretary. How are you?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good morning.
9 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: My question is, I
10 think you’re absolutely correct when you talk about
11 from 2020 to 2025 the amount of jobs particularly
12 in this global economy that will need specific
13 technical skills.
14 And saying that, there always seems to be
15 a disconnect between the businesses community, our
16 higher learning institutions, and our public school
17 community.
18 I want to know, is there a way that we can
19 begin to bring them together? Because, as the
20 economy continues to evolve, particularly the
21 technology stand, we need to be lock and step with
22 the business communities so that we’re making sure,
23 particularly, towards CTEs, that we are designing
24 the right programs to be able to compete in this
25 global market. 67
1 So, I just wanted to hear your opinion.
2 Is there any conversation about the business
3 community, our higher learning institutions, and
4 our public schools getting together to talk about a
5 curriculum?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. One of the
7 projects we engaged in over the course of the past
8 year-plus, we wrote a grant early on and received a
9 planning grant for a New Skills for Youth grant,
10 which was NSFY. And through that grant, we were
11 able to work with the -- you know, with the PA
12 Foundation, with Team PA Foundation, industry
13 leaders, business leaders, education leaders,
14 members of the general assembly to do exactly that,
15 to start to have this really deep dialogue around
16 how to align business and industry needs with K-12
17 and higher education needs and expectations. Some
18 great work came out as a result of that.
19 As matter of fact, there’s a video you can
20 view on our website that was a link that took
21 business leaders and schools to align what course
22 offerings they have and how those course offerings
23 align to business, industry, and community needs.
24 So, all though we didn’t receive a phase
25 two portion of that grant, we are still continuing 68
1 with that work. So, our full expectation and
2 framework, which is why we have so much of the data
3 that we shared, was to make sure that what we’re
4 doing in our K-to-12 system, transitioning into
5 higher ed, industry, 2-year, 4-year degree is
6 specifically meeting the needs of local industry -
7 business and industry.
8 So, we started with that grant. We were
9 able to build a really nice foundation in creating
10 a clearinghouse -- or, I’m sorry, a survey
11 inventory of what’s needed. Now, our next level of
12 work will be to align those 339 plans to that need.
13 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Do you know the
14 name of the video, just for the audience to maybe
15 watch it?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: I don’t remember the
17 name of the video. Someone will whisper it in my
18 ear, but if you look at -- I would probably say
19 career and college inventory is what the video
20 addresses.
21 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: And you talked
22 about re-engaging people that didn’t finish college
23 but started, and you said it was 1.4 million -
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: 1.4 million.
25 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: -- in the state of 69
1 Pennsylvania. What is the strategy to re-engage
2 them?
3 I think that’s a wonderful program
4 because, I think, particularly in urban areas such
5 as Pittsburgh, the number of people who didn’t
6 finish but have another opportunity now through
7 this to go back to college, not only do I think
8 that benefits them, but also I think it’s very big
9 for their children.
10 So, can you tell me little bit about the
11 strategy behind that and how that will be
12 implemented?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we wrote a grant
14 for Lumina in the hopes to create four college
15 re-engagement centers geographically dispersed
16 across the Commonwealth. Right now, even if we
17 don’t receive the grant, we’ve been trying to align
18 some of our thoughts and resources to at least
19 create two. But what we envision is having four
20 geographically dispersed college re-engagement
21 centers where we’ve identified many of those
22 individuals, where we can schedule time to meet
23 with them, you know, provide inventory around their
24 interests, what it is that they currently do, and
25 what opportunities exist across the Commonwealth, 70
1 and then align those individuals with certificate
2 attainment, two-year degree, or four-year degree
3 attainment.
4 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Is there any
5 information you could provide to us on that right
6 there?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. So, I know
8 we have a number of — you know, continued — Wil
9 and his team have a number of, you know, continued
10 meetings coming up to discuss it. We’ll make that
11 available you.
12 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Thank you.
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
15 Kampf.
16 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Mr. Secretary, over
17 here. That’s all right. And perhaps this is also
18 for Wil.
19 Just a couple of statistical questions.
20 The figure 70 percent has been talked about, 70
21 percent of our high school graduates who go on to
22 postsecondary education attend
23 Pennsylvania-supported schools. Does that mean
24 PASSHE, state-related, and community colleges?
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: And technical colleges. 71
1 Yes.
2 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: And technical
3 colleges. So, that’s that -- right. Okay. So,
4 that’s what that means. Thank you.
5 And then, over all, of Pennsylvania high
6 school graduates, is enrollment in Pennsylvania
7 institutions of higher education flat? Is it
8 projected to go up?
9 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Well, we’re
10 hoping it goes up. As we look at — at the needs
11 of the Commonwealth, we think that in order to be
12 able to get to the 60 percent of our Pennsylvania
13 residents with some college or with a degree,
14 certificate, or credential, we’re going to have to
15 increase the number and the proportion of students
16 going on to postsecondary.
17 So, currently we’re at around 60, 61
18 percent. We think that, you know, when you look at
19 the states that are doing it most effectively -
20 and not all of this is four year. We recognize
21 there’s, as the representative said earlier,
22 there’s a lot of alignment that needs to happen at
23 the two year. In fact, 33 percent of the jobs in
24 Pennsylvania by 2025 will require an associates
25 degree or less. And so, we do recognize that there 72
1 needs to be significant growth in that area as
2 well.
3 So, we’re seeing -- we’re seeing
4 students -- we’d like to see us probably be at
5 around 70 percent of high school graduating class
6 going on to some type of postsecondary.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Okay. Right. Just
8 to drill into that, the -- you said that enrollment
9 is up essentially 60 percent, as opposed to 55 or
10 lower before. But in terms of raw numbers, right,
11 because we’ve heard that demographics, our
12 population is shrinking in this age area, age
13 group, is enrollment in Pennsylvania schools, that
14 is higher education schools, flat?
15 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: So, when you
16 look at the raw numbers, it’s probably down around
17 eight thousand from 2009. So -
18 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: And so, that’s
19 private and public institutions.
20 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: That’s
21 private and public. So, when we look at —
22 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: So, we’re down 8
23 percent since ’09.
24 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Eight
25 thousand students. 73
1 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Eight thousand.
2 Okay.
3 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Eight
4 thousand.
5 So, when we look at the number of
6 students, I think it’s 14.3 percent is what it is.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Okay.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
9 Donatucci.
10 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you,
11 Secretary, for being here today.
12 I want to go back to the library
13 discussion. I’m an advocate of libraries. The one
14 in my neighborhood is now named after my
15 father-in-law. It’s been there since the early
16 1900s. I attended it all through my life. My kids
17 have gone there. They have wonderful programs that
18 I participate in, even today. I like to read to
19 children.
20 What does the library formula look like?
21 You spoke about incentivized good behavior in other
22 areas. Is there an opportunity to work on our
23 goals for libraries, even if we’re not talking
24 about new resources or funding?
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, Representative, 74
1 admittedly, the formula’s an old formula. We’ve
2 added a number of conversations around what it
3 would take to update the formula, given the current
4 role of libraries, current library standards,
5 expectations, and, of course, their role in the
6 community. And, first, it would be a significant
7 endeavor. You know, specifically, I’d share, it
8 would take, you know, significant resources, you
9 know, to update that formula, which has probably
10 been the biggest barrier to updating the formula.
11 So, I will admittedly share that it is an old -
12 it’s an older, outdated formula that would take
13 significant resources to update, which is why many
14 administrations and renditions of the general
15 assembly have not updated that formula.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Okay. Thank
17 you.
18 But I just want to give kudos to, like,
19 the friends of our library, because they do a lot
20 on their own to raise money to keep it going.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. And I
22 know, specifically, your library is one of those
23 that hosts a myriad of summer programs for kids and
24 brings families in. And we’re seeing amazing
25 things happen in our libraries across the 75
1 Commonwealth so they are a point of pride for us.
2 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Okay. Thank
3 you.
4 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative.
6 Boback.
7 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: I’m up here.
8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 "Library" must be the word for the day
10 because that’s where I was wanting to key in. But
11 mine has to do with, several years ago, the
12 libraries launched the PA Forward initiative, and
13 that recognized the public is demanding greater
14 efficiency in program consolidation.
15 How do our libraries fit into that
16 concept?
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: So -- and I’ll let
18 Glenn share some of the specifics, but I have to
19 give a moment and really give kudos to both he and
20 his team. They have been working aggressively over
21 the course of the past two years to, one, not only
22 realize library efficiency but also redefine the
23 role of libraries in, you know, in our local
24 community.
25 So, two that I already shared, but I think 76
1 are worth re-mentioning. You know, first, being,
2 you know, that last mile, that connectivity for
3 some of our most vulnerable districts, especially
4 rural districts. Secondly, looking to provide
5 support around the Makerspaces and potential hacker
6 spaces, moving forward, so being, you know, that
7 center hub for technology.
8 I will make it a point to add one more,
9 and then he can share anything I’ve missed. But,
10 you know, Glenn himself and a representative from
11 the state library system have been working with
12 leadership and individuals from Labor and Industry
13 to see how we can help them with their vision of
14 providing, you know, adult training programs and,
15 you know, and job readiness programs as part of the
16 mission of the library as well. So, we’ve been
17 including them as a true partner in re-envisioning
18 how we support constituents across the
19 Commonwealth.
20 So, I don’t know if I missed anything.
21 DEPUTY SECRETARY MILLER: Just on PA
22 Forward, and, Representative, we know your strong
23 support for your local library as well. We met in
24 the past.
25 The Department of Education is actually a 77
1 full partner in the PA Forward initiative. So, we
2 work with the community -- the groups that are
3 working on all five aspects of those literacies
4 within PA Forward. Libraries can be a part of
5 that, specifically, by dedicating themselves to
6 become a STAR library program. And so, there are
7 various levels within that initiative. That
8 initiative focuses on five essential literacies:
9 basic literacy, health literacy, information
10 literacy -- and I’m going to forget them now. I
11 apologize. There are five essential literacies
12 that are part. And so, libraries can participate
13 in those programs.
14 And one of the goals here is to emphasize
15 the library’s role not just as a center of the
16 community, but as a partner in a public-private
17 setting. So, the initiative, what’s unique about
18 the initiative and why we’re so happy to be a part
19 of it is that this demonstrates the kind of
20 public-private partnership that really works well.
21 We have banks, and we have industries, Comcast
22 Cable, a number of partners involved in this, as
23 well as state agencies and state associations and
24 nonprofits.
25 So, the goal here is to try to bring 78
1 people together and to try to leverage the power of
2 those resources that are already there, rather than
3 meet in the silos that the secretary referenced
4 several times today, to try to get out in the
5 community and use the library assets in ways that
6 touch all elements in the community.
7 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Well, and with -
8 pardon me -- with consolidation, I looked at the
9 adult and family literacy program. I recognized
10 that the community education council -- you know,
11 these are things that I feel fit perfectly as
12 partners with our libraries. Maybe they do now.
13 Maybe we should think about that type of
14 consolidation, because I saw the line item for the
15 council at 2.4 million.
16 And I also considered, with our libraries,
17 is there a way to do a match? We talked about
18 public-private partnerships. Is there a way that
19 if they raise so much money, that we could have a
20 match from somewhere?
21 I was just at a fundraiser Saturday night
22 up in Tunkhannock, as a matter of fact, for our
23 library. So, we’re always out there -- the past
24 president of the board of directors for the Back
25 Mountain Library. So, we’re always out there 79
1 begging and pinching for every penny that we could
2 get.
3 But is there a way that we could leverage
4 those dollars, either through a grant program — or
5 do we qualify for EITC in the libraries?
6 DEPUTY SECRETARY MILLER: We do. And it
7 depends on the library. And, of course, there are
8 a number of administrative hurdles to that, but
9 libraries are eligible partners in the EITC.
10 I’ll just briefly say, in terms of the
11 matching aspect of this, and Representative
12 Donatucci touched on this earlier, in the funding
13 formula, when it runs, there is an incentive
14 component that would speak specifically to what you
15 just described. Unfortunately, we don’t have the
16 dollars to run that.
17 So, whether we’re able to run the formula
18 eventually with sufficiently higher dollars, or
19 we’re able to run some modified formula that
20 incorporates that incentive aspect, we know that
21 those incentives are essential to long-term
22 stability at local libraries.
23 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: And, again, I just
24 don’t understand the level funding, knowing what
25 libraries do for our communities. When I see so 80
1 much money going to preK for our educators, I get
2 it. Wonderful. But a lot of the programs that
3 library do offer are story time, experiential -
4 experiences for the children. So, I’m wondering,
5 too, with money being leveraged into something like
6 that, if they could show that they’re producing
7 with the preK kids. Just a thought.
8 But thank you for your time and for what
9 you do for us.
10 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
12 Dean.
13 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Thank you,
14 Mr. Chairman.
15 Good morning. Welcome.
16 I wonder if you could give us a little bit
17 of a primer on ESSA, Every Student Succeeds Act. I
18 know your department and the state have lived under
19 No Child Left Behind. So, could you sort of
20 compare and contrast and tell us what states can
21 expect under the new act, what differences it will
22 make, what flexibilities it adds or does not add?
23 And, maybe, specifically, what do you hope it will
24 do in terms of specific achievement gaps that we
25 know exists among different demographics in our 81
1 state?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we took
3 advantage -- you all, of course, I probably feel I
4 have to preface everything I’m saying with the fact
5 that there’s still much uncertainty at the federal
6 level at this point in time, especially as it
7 relates to some aspects of ESSA and its
8 implementation.
9 However, we saw the adoption of ESSA as an
10 opportunity to look at four specific areas. First,
11 educator preparation, assessment, accountability,
12 and educator effectiveness.
13 And, you know, when we look at
14 specifically those four specific areas, we brought
15 together a good -- you know, a very large subgroup
16 to create -- to what we call work groups. So, we
17 brought educators together. We brought education
18 advocates. We brought individuals from elementary,
19 secondary, higher education, early childhood
20 education. We had some members of the staff in the
21 general assembly participate both on our whole
22 group discussion, and then we had geographic
23 listening and engagement sessions across the
24 Commonwealth. So, we really, you know, had a broad
25 stakeholder group engaged in this conversation. 82
1 So, you know, over a thousand folks, you know, came
2 together.
3 And I can give you a quick preview of some
4 of what they recommended to us as part of the -
5 you know, as part of our report, which is actually
6 online for review by anyone who wants to see it.
7 First, I think, probably the one area -- and we’ll
8 probably get into this a little more in the K-to-12
9 section -- but assessment. You know, they agreed
10 with, you know, with the understanding and made the
11 statement that we are spending way too much time on
12 high-stakes tests or standardized tests for
13 students. And I won’t get into, you know, really
14 more of the specifics, because I’m sure I’ll share
15 it a number of times later this afternoon, but
16 there’s some recommendations that, you know, if we
17 realize them and we’re really digging deeper, you
18 know, to see if we can -- we can do this, to
19 decrease testing by practically 25 percent. So,
20 really decreasing the amount of time kids are
21 testing.
22 Second, teacher preparation programs. I
23 mean, we had conversations around what would it
24 look like to move away from the current system of
25 teacher -- you know, the teacher prep program to 83
1 moving into a more full-year apprenticeship
2 program. So, teachers will spend more time in the
3 classroom before they become credentialed, and
4 looking at the alignment between K-12 and higher ed
5 for teacher preparation.
6 We looked at accountability, the need to
7 be more wholistic around our accountability
8 measures, because, right now, we just kind of — we
9 take this sweeping, you know, approach to school
10 and district accountability as it relates, you
11 know, to standardized tests and thinking more
12 wholistically around it.
13 So, the — the adoption of ESSA gave us an
14 opportunity to focus on those four areas. But I do
15 think it’s important to mention that we started
16 this work, you know, under the direction of the
17 governor before ESSA was even adopted. It just
18 helped us provide a new framework that aligns to
19 our federal mandates.
20 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: And am I right that
21 ESSA will not be fully implemented until the
22 upcoming fiscal year? And what uncertainties are
23 you concerned about? What are you hearing from the
24 federal government?
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, there’s always the 84
1 uncertainty around not only ESSA but just what
2 federal funding looks like, you know, for states
3 across the country.
4 You know, I think, what’s important for us
5 is, we’re going to -- we are going to formalize our
6 report, you know, and work with the general
7 assembly, and then present to the general assembly
8 what our findings are and what we’d like our plan
9 to be, you know, to -- you know, to the feds moving
10 forward.
11 But, ultimately, you know, we have a
12 really clear mandate by the education community and
13 the governor and what we’ve heard from the general
14 assembly. And we know that there are a number of
15 changes that have to take place in our educational
16 system, if we’re -- if our kids are going to be
17 successful. So, we’re going to move in that
18 direction regardless of what happens at the federal
19 level.
20 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Thank you.
21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
23 Helm.
24 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thank you,
25 Mr. Chairman. 85
1 I’d like to talk about trade and technical
2 schools.
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: Um-hum.
4 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: I think we can all
5 agree that career and technical education is
6 important, and the Commonwealth needs more skilled
7 workers in the trades. However, there seems to be
8 a bias in many of our secondary schools towards
9 sending graduates to four-year colleges and
10 universities while trade and technical schools are
11 seen as a lesser path.
12 I recently had four students in my office.
13 They were in trade and technical schools. And
14 first of all, they walked in, and I was so
15 impressed with how they looked and how they dressed
16 and how they talked to me. But the one girl
17 specifically said, when she told her mother she
18 wanted to go on to a trade school, like she had
19 sort of disappointed her because she didn’t want to
20 pursue a four-year college degree. However, the
21 girl is in that trade school now, and she’s doing
22 so well, and her mother’s happy. The whole
23 family’s happy.
24 And then one of the young men was in a
25 school to learn to do websites, and he was telling 86
1 me, I’m making all this money already. I’m not
2 even out of school.
3 So, you know, that bring me back. Many
4 years ago, before this job, I sold real estate.
5 And I had this family. And as their children got
6 older, the first girl came to me to buy a house,
7 and she had some money, and she had good credit.
8 She was okay.
9 And then the second girl came to me and -
10 you know, they’re both college graduates -- and she
11 didn’t have any money. She had bad credit. So, I
12 had to work with her for four years -- I mean, for
13 twelve months to get her into buying the house.
14 Then the boy comes, who went to a
15 technical school and became an electrician. And
16 I’m thinking, now, you know, how’s he going to buy
17 a house? Well, he had all sorts of money, had good
18 credit, you know, never had a problem.
19 So, that taught me a lesson, you know, how
20 important technical schools and trade schools are
21 in Pennsylvania.
22 But these students that were here in my
23 office, you know, four weeks ago, a couple weeks
24 ago, they talked about the bias that exists. And
25 they said, How can -- you know, how can I help 87
1 them? How can I help the system that people don’t
2 feel that way when other students want to go to a
3 school like this?
4 So, what can you do to change that -- the
5 way that people think of those schools? Because I
6 don’t think we should be doing that to our
7 students.
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: First, I think you made
9 a really important distinction, and that is, you
10 know, better educating the public, the community
11 around those biases.
12 First, here’s what we know academically.
13 So, career and technical education is no longer the
14 same programs we remember from fifty years ago.
15 You know, now, we kind of ran this study, and we
16 have this crosswalk, as our teacher prep, our
17 teacher resources online. In order to be an
18 electrician now, you have to navigate text, so,
19 your literacy skills have to be at a 900 Lexile.
20 So, just remember 900.
21 In order to engage with first- and
22 second-year collegiate text, so, you know, your
23 first two years of a two-year or four-year, you
24 know, traditional college experience, you have to
25 be able to navigate with text at 1100 Lexiles. 88
1 That window between how you have to read and engage
2 in math for, you know, for an electrician and many
3 of the technical certificates and two- and
4 four-year degrees is extremely narrow.
5 So, the days of that being not, you know,
6 as smart or, you know, an intelligent pathway, you
7 know, first, that’s a misnomer, misunderstanding;
8 that’s not true.
9 Secondly, you know, we have to understand
10 that there are multiple pathways to success, which
11 is why, you know, we’ve been engaging in what we’re
12 calling the Future Ready PA Index, which shows
13 value for the 339 plans, which are college and
14 career-readiness plans, elementary school career
15 days, middle school, college career inventory, high
16 school career pathways. And we’re also, in our
17 graduation standards, the recommendation that we’re
18 making is showing value to knock the NIMS, which
19 are career and technical education, you know,
20 program assessments, as well as dual enrollment,
21 advanced placement, international baccalaureate,
22 SAT programs. So, college pathways.
23 So, what -- you know, what we’ve done as
24 an administration, and the current Department of
25 Education sees multiple pathways, both as college 89
1 and career. And no one is better than the other.
2 I mean, if we’re going to succeed, we’re going to
3 ensure that students are successful in life and in
4 their communities. You know, we’re working —
5 we’re helping them attain a certificate to be an
6 electrician or go on to attain a two-year or
7 four-year degree.
8 But I think you raised an important
9 distinction, and it’s us continuing to share that
10 message so that a high school counselor or a mother
11 or a neighbor or a community member isn’t looking
12 down upon the electrician that probably could have,
13 you know, gave your 20 percent down payment out of
14 pocket, you know, or, you know, a student who may
15 not have, you know, aligned to the degree that gave
16 them gainful employment.
17 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: And I share with you
18 one young man. He was just about ready to take his
19 beautician’s license. So, I have five professional
20 licenses. So, somewhere along my life, I went to
21 beauty school. So, I pulled out my certificate. I
22 was a beautician. And he said, I can’t believe
23 this, that you’re a beautician. So, you can start
24 out with one thing and proceed to do many other
25 things in life. 90
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
2 And especially now, because they -- true, they’re
3 all transferable. Those skills are transferable.
4 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: So, please keep up
5 the good work to try and get rid of this bias,
6 because these students asked me to please ask you
7 that.
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. Thank you.
9 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thank you.
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
11 Briggs.
12 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you,
13 Mr. Chairman.
14 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
15 I just want to echo everyone’s comments
16 about their support for libraries. Since I first
17 got elected, library was always at the top of the
18 list. It was even one of the main reasons when I
19 voted against Governor Rendell’s budget, when he
20 was cutting it in 2010, I listed as one of the main
21 reasons for doing that.
22 But I wanted to take a second to talk a
23 little bit about early education and early
24 intervention, early childhood ed. It’s a highlight
25 in the budget that I think has not been talked 91
1 about since it is a little bit of a challenging
2 budget.
3 But can you talk a little bit about the
4 need to continue to invest in these early childhood
5 education fundings?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I know that’s one
7 of the topics we’ll probably get a little more in
8 depth, you know, later on in our discussion this
9 afternoon. But I can share with you, some of what
10 we’re already -- you know, we already know, as it
11 relates to the advancement and the alignment of
12 high quality early childhood education and we look
13 at the skills that business and industry leaders
14 are asking us that they want in graduates as, you
15 know -- you know, as well as or in addition to, you
16 know, technical ability and, you know, the
17 traditional reading, writing, you know, and
18 arithmetic. It’s, you know, employers in the
19 school system, you know, communities right now
20 need, you know, students that are engaging and, you
21 know, are successfully engaging through the soft
22 skills as well as, you know, the hard skills of
23 learning. And what we absolutely see now from, you
24 know, when you’re involved in early childhood -
25 good quality early childhood education programs, 92
1 you know, students are coming to school ready,
2 prepared to learn.
3 Second, you’re engaging with society,
4 they’re engaging with, you know, the structured
5 environment, you know, much better than their peers
6 are. And, longitudinally, we see long-term, you
7 know, social -- social success of communities that
8 engage earlier on with early childhood programs.
9 So, you know, that data’s clear. And I
10 know we have our colleagues here today that, you
11 know, have been presenting letters from business
12 leaders, the military, you know, from, you know,
13 small business owners, you know, around the need to
14 support high quality early childhood. So, the data
15 supports this — you know, this investment.
16 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Well, you can’t go
17 wrong with the data.
18 The -- this afternoon’s going to be
19 interesting. I share your comment about
20 assessments are just way too much time for our
21 kids. And I want to ask you a little bit this
22 afternoon about our partnership with the
23 intermediate units. So, looking forward to a good
24 conversation.
25 Thank you. 93
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
3 Grove.
4 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Thank you,
5 Mr. Chairman.
6 Mr. Secretary, good to see you again and
7 your entourage.
8 I want to follow up. Representative Roae
9 asked you a question about PHEAA and whether the -
10 the approved contract makes higher education state.
11 Your response -- or, I’m sorry, PASSHE.
12 Thank you. Thank you, Representative
13 Roae.
14 70 percent of students are Pennsylvania
15 residents, and the administration wants to ensure
16 that those students have access to PASSHE moving
17 forward. That was kind of your response to his
18 question.
19 How does increasing the cost of PASSHE
20 increase access, as increased cost leads to higher
21 tuition, and higher tuition would be a barrier for
22 individuals enrolling in those institutions, moving
23 forward? Can you just clarify that a little bit
24 for me?
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: Sure. And I wanted 94
1 to -- that is -- that was my statement. I want to
2 clarify or I want to correct what I shared earlier.
3 70 percent of the Pennsylvania high school
4 graduates go on to state-related institutions.
5 So, I can’t say that my intent is to -
6 you know, was to -- so, my intent was not to say
7 that increased cost, you know, supports students
8 moving on to those institutions. The quality
9 programs do support students participating and
10 enrolling in those institutions. And so, when
11 asked specifically did I support, you know, a
12 contract that provides, you know, for us to, you
13 know, to identify, recruit, retain, and engage high
14 quality staff members, that I do.
15 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. So, that was
16 linking it to quality education from those
17 institutions.
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: Quality instructors in
19 those institutions.
20 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. Next
21 question. Can you answer what changed between the
22 budget documents you sent to the budget office in
23 October and the final budget that was presented to
24 the general assembly in February? What were the
25 funding differences between those two? 95
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: As specific to general
2 operations, GGO?
3 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Just general -- so,
4 mobile science and math education was eliminated.
5 In your budget you sent to the administration, was
6 that a recommendation of the agency or did that
7 come from the budget office, to eliminate that line
8 item?
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, as we started
10 looking more deeply around the initial proposed
11 budget and then, you know, the subsequent budget,
12 one of the areas that we had to realize was that,
13 one, you know -- two really specific areas. One,
14 there was a three billion dollar, you know,
15 potential shortfall in the state’s budget.
16 Secondly, the governor is identifying or has
17 identified and continues to look to identify two
18 billion dollars in inefficiencies. So, when we
19 submitted, there were a number of increases and
20 decreases that were -- you know, that were -- that
21 were included, you know. So, it was a result of
22 just -- I have a list of them. I won’t take all of
23 our time. But we did adjust to meet the need of
24 that three billion and two-billion-dollar
25 96
1 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: And that, I mean -
2 that -- so, people transportation,
3 fifty-million-dollar reduction. Was that your
4 agency’s request to the governor, or did the
5 governor put that in their budget?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, specific to people
7 transportation, we know we -- you know, we met with
8 the folks there at McKinsey, which was -- the
9 McKinsey Report was submitted. We worked with the
10 governor’s budget office to have probably a longer
11 range conversation -
12 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: In short, that was
13 a -- that came from the budget request, not your
14 agency request.
15 SECRETARY RIVERA: You know what, it
16 wasn’t that simple. It was a group of us sitting
17 together to -- you know, to strategize. So, it was
18 more, you know, the result of conversation.
19 When we engage with -- when we engage with
20 the budget office as -- in terms of what we say -
21 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: The general
22 question is, when you submitted your budget
23 documents to the budget office, was there a
24 fifty-million-dollar reduction in that line item
25 when you submitted it? 97
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, from our original
2 submission to our final submission, we were trying
3 to realize efficiencies. That was one of the areas
4 that we included. We don’t -- so, the Department
5 of Ed being a large agency, we don’t kind of submit
6 in a silo, in a vacuum. We work together across
7 agencies to -- you know, to realize what we have,
8 what our priorities are, and then ultimately what
9 we submit.
10 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. What program
11 measures did you determine to base those funding
12 reductions and increases on?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, first, you know, in
14 our original budget, of course, like most agencies,
15 we ask for more for everything, you know, until we
16 realize what the bottom-line budget looks like.
17 And then we still ask for more. But my team and I
18 engage in an exercise where we look at, you know,
19 specifically what -- you know, what’s -- what’s
20 priority, and then we just go line by line, and,
21 you know, try to realize when we stop at, you know,
22 what the balanced budget is, and then we move on
23 to, you know, kind of -- to ask for more specific
24 areas.
25 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. 98
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: This year, K-12 was one
2 of the most significant increases.
3 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Your GGO has a
4 2.3-million-dollar increase. There’s a new
5 augmentation for PlanCon under that at 1.2 million
6 dollars. Is that from bond proceeds?
7 DIRECTOR MARIANO: Yes. For the ’17-’18
8 year, that would be from bond proceeds.
9 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: And what’s that
10 going to fund?
11 DIRECTOR MARIANO: That would be going to
12 fund staff, primarily.
13 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: So -
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: At that point,
15 I have to cut you off.
16 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 Representative Krueger-Braneky.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Thank
20 you, Mr. Secretary. I’ve appreciated all the wide
21 diversity of topics that you’re covering during
22 today’s hearing.
23 I want to talk a little bit about adult
24 literacy. There’s a wonderful agency in Delaware
25 County, in the Delaware County Literacy Council. 99
1 And I’ve gotten a chance to meet some of their
2 volunteers and some of their students. And they’re
3 serving folks who aren’t quite ready yet for a lot
4 of the higher education institutions that we’re
5 talking about today. Folks who either need help
6 with adult basic education, or need to earn a GED
7 before they can even go on to a community college
8 or a technical program, or who need help with
9 English as a second language.
10 And it’s a fairly small line item in the
11 budget, but feels crucial to helping to get
12 low-income folks on the pathway to the education
13 they need to have a good-paying job and a
14 family-staining wage.
15 So, can you talk a bit about the reduction
16 for this year? Now, I know Governor Wolf had
17 proposed increases in his first two budgets. There
18 was not an appetite in this legislature to fund
19 those. The decrease this year, though, where will
20 we see that?
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I don’t know
22 specifically where exactly we’re going to realize
23 those reductions. But I do know, as we’ve been
24 engaging -- and Wil can definitely share some of
25 the specifics in the program -- as we were engaging 100
1 in the budget, you know, much the narrative around
2 the difficulty in this year’s budget and many of
3 the difficult decisions we have had to make.
4 We’ve also been looking at, you know,
5 partnering with other agencies as well as visiting
6 sites that provide high quality GED instruction,
7 adult basic literacy instruction, and then
8 providing the differentiated pathways both through
9 GED and the highset program for, you know,
10 different types and -- for different types of
11 tests.
12 So, I think, you know, ultimately, what we
13 looked at was, the difficulty, of course, in the
14 budget. But we also continue to look to work with
15 other agencies across -- you know, different
16 governor’s agencies, to see if we can, you know,
17 capitalize off of partnerships and opportunities,
18 moving forward.
19 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: Through WIOA,
20 we’re required to form these one-stop shops
21 effectively across the Commonwealth. And so, we
22 are working with Labor and Industry to ensure that
23 we’re providing services that kind of cut across
24 all of the needs of our most vulnerable residents.
25 And so, we think, through partnerships 101
1 with Labor and Industry, through WIOA, we’ll be
2 able to provide either the same or higher level of
3 services to all residents of the Commonwealth.
4 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY:
5 Wonderful.
6 Then, I’ve got one more higher ed
7 question. I have two institutions of higher
8 education in my district, and one is Swarthmore
9 College. And back in December, in the face of the
10 increasing violence and hate toward people of color
11 and Muslims and the LGBT community and others, they
12 declared themselves a sanctuary campus. Just
13 shortly thereafter, there was a bill introduced,
14 HB14, around sanctuary campuses.
15 And based on my reading of the bill, it
16 would make higher -- institutions of higher
17 education that declare themselves sanctuary
18 campuses ineligible for state funding. And the
19 bill actually puts additional requirements on the
20 department for developing procedures for reporting
21 violations, maintaining records, and actually
22 reporting institutions of higher ed to the
23 secretary of the budget to have their funding
24 withheld.
25 So, my first question for you, if this 102
1 bill were to become law, what line items would be
2 impacted? I know that Swarthmore receives a small
3 amount of institutional assistance grants. Are
4 there other funding streams that would be impacted?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I’m looking
6 through, and I have to be honest and share that’s
7 not a specific conversation we’ve had yet, you
8 know, with our team, but, of course, you know, as
9 we look to, first, create barriers for students in
10 any, you know, system of education itself, you
11 know, it’s of concern to us.
12 But, ultimately, to answer your question
13 specifically, I don’t know what it could ultimately
14 cost the department or those schools, but it is
15 something we’d have to look deeply at and, you
16 know, hopefully not, you know, hurt, you know, a
17 system of higher ed that’s trying to -- trying to
18 provide service to the constituents in their
19 community. So, we’ll look a little more deeply at
20 that.
21 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: That was
22 going to be my second question. You know, given
23 the requirements in the bill, you know, of course
24 we’d have to pass a fiscal note out of
25 Appropriations to assign a cost to this, but 103
1 capacity for the department, if you were indeed
2 required to develop a whole new set of regulations
3 to enforce these regulations on campuses.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: And I will share, our
5 Department of Higher Education not only works on a
6 shoestring budget, but, you know, an extremely
7 small staff. So, any time we were -- you know, we
8 had to increase the number of personnel needed to,
9 you know, to provide oversight or for
10 documentation, it’s something that I particularly
11 frown upon. I’d much rather, you know,
12 transition -- I’d much rather push as much funding
13 as we can to the systems that are serving kids than
14 for us to have to provide, you know, really deep
15 oversight on areas that we probably should leave up
16 to them.
17 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Thank
18 you.
19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
21 Delozier.
22 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Thank you,
23 Mr. Chairman.
24 I’m over here. Keep switching sides on
25 you. 104
1 Most of the financial questions have been
2 asked. I had one of the line items that’s in your
3 budget that’s more on a safety issue. And that is
4 the new line, it was called, in the past, the
5 higher education assistance line, for a million
6 dollars. It’s now called the sexual assault
7 prevention line item. So, I have a few questions
8 on that as to the fact of, those grants that go out
9 on this line item and have in the past, are they
10 competitive grants for all schools, public and
11 private?
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes.
13 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Okay. And do
14 you know who received them? Could we get back from
15 you who received them this year?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes. I may even be
17 able to read it off to you, but -
18 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Oh, okay.
19 And how much they were, how big are the grants?
20 It’s a million dollars, which obviously doesn’t go
21 too, too far, but how big were the grants typically
22 to those schools?
23 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: The grants
24 were up to the $30,000 maximum. So, they could
25 apply for up to the 30,000. 105
1 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: 30,000? Okay.
2 And do you receive back reporting on what
3 that money was used for and if it was successful
4 and what changes it made on campus?
5 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: We will be
6 receiving reports back from the institutions in
7 June of this year, which will be -- we’ll compile
8 them and put out an -- like a report, an annual
9 report, on the status of the grants.
10 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Okay.
11 Great. I will look forward to reading that.
12 And the -- does the -- as a whole, with
13 all of the higher education establishments in
14 Pennsylvania that we have, the ones that receive
15 our funding, do we keep stats on sexual assault on
16 the campus so we know what changes or positive
17 impact that these moneys may have?
18 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: There is
19 natural reporting around the Clery Act. And so, we
20 are working on actually developing a report card
21 that would provide some of that information to the
22 public. And so, we — we use Clery Act data.
23 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Okay.
24 DEPUTY SECRETARY DEL PILAR: There’s also
25 the Uniform Crime Reporting Act that all the 106
1 institutions report to the Pennsylvania Department
2 of Education. So, we’re compiling that.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: So, we can bring
4 them all together so we know.
5 And then, there’s a lot of different
6 funding streams, obviously, other than this one
7 million dollars, that obviously we’re hoping will
8 have an impact on education and the ability to help
9 not only the victims but educate people on how
10 important this is and "no means no.”
11 Switching to a different subject real
12 quick is the issue of private loans for students.
13 I’ve had a few folks come in, unfortunately, that
14 have gone to private institutions, and they’ve been
15 driven to a private loan service to receive their
16 student loans. They have now, pretty much, been in
17 a bad situation where the interest rates have
18 accumulated, have accumulated, have accumulated,
19 and they’re kind of in a snowball. And, honestly,
20 there’s no light at the end of the tunnel.
21 And they have come in. They’re living in
22 their parents’ basement. They can’t start a family
23 because they have -- and the school was the one
24 that drove them to those private loans. And
25 they’re not the PHEAA loans that we’re proud of and 107
1 the ones that help students and look for the
2 ability for them to pay over time.
3 And I -- I couldn’t help them, because it
4 was a private loan. It was not something that was
5 government backed.
6 What is it that the department is doing to
7 educate our seniors in high school, which may go
8 through K through 12, but when they make that leap?
9 A lot of them don’t know. A lot of them have never
10 taken a loan out. A lot of their parents don’t
11 know. They may be the first one going to college
12 in that family.
13 How do we educate and talk about what
14 positive loans we do have, like PHEAA, or other
15 ones that certainly can help the student and not
16 send them into poverty for the rest of their life?
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, there are going to
18 be two significant initiatives Wil and his team
19 engage in this year. First is a college counseling
20 awareness professional development series that’s
21 going to focus specifically on that, how to, you
22 know, provide students and families the information
23 needed to attain financial aid, to look at, you
24 know, the systems, what to be wary of, what to be
25 aware of, but also the process of navigating 108
1 industry for a two-year degree and four-year degree
2 accordingly.
3 Secondly, we are going to be engaging in,
4 I guess, a FAFSA completion days, which we will
5 be -- you know, it’s an organized effort to push
6 out the information, to inform parents,
7 communities, and students around the process of
8 filling out that financial aid paperwork. We
9 realize that one of the biggest indicators of
10 either not finishing or not filling out or not
11 knowing -- being aware of the, you know, the
12 opportunities that exist under PHEAA and FAFSA
13 itself is that personal connection, someone there
14 to help you guide through the process and the
15 system. And, as a result, many students do exactly
16 what you just shared. They come back after the
17 fact, and they say, "Hey, I heard about,” or "I
18 saw,” or "I read." And we want to prevent that
19 from happening by engaging with students and family
20
21 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: And I’m sorry.
22 Does that go with -- I know we work with the public
23 schools that we, you know, give -- and the private
24 colleges and that type of thing. But a lot of
25 times with some of these other institutions, 109
1 students go to get a two-year degree possibly,
2 thinking that they will get into a field and -
3 field of study and get a good job, and that’s what
4 we want. And we’ve talked about the college debt.
5 The issue is still a matter of how much information
6 can you get to that private institution and that
7 student kind of going outside the normal
8 educational route, that is trying to better
9 themselves but can’t.
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we’re working with
11 private and public. And we’re working through
12 their systems to collectively bring them together.
13 So, I do have the list of thirty-six.
14 We’ll make it a point to get back to you.
15 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Thank you. I
16 would like to see what schools got.
17 Thank you very much.
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Okay. We will
19 be adjourning after Chairman Roebuck’s questioning
20 till 1 o ’clock. He will be our last questioner
21 this morning. And then we will adjourn for
22 session.
23 Those who are on the list to ask
24 additional questions will stay on the list and
25 we’ll start up again this afternoon at 1:00. 110
1 Chairman Roebuck.
2 REPRESENTATIVE ROEBUCK: Thank you,
3 Mr. Chairman. I assume that, being the last
4 person, I get extra time. But I don’t know if
5 that’s a good assumption.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: You assume
7 wrong.
8 REPRESENTATIVE ROEBUCK: Mr. Secretary,
9 the budget proposes a 2 percent increase in funding
10 for PASSHE schools, but there’s no increase for
11 other institutions of higher education, such as
12 community colleges. And community colleges
13 certainly now are the threshold point whereby many
14 students get into higher education.
15 I wonder if you might comment on that
16 priority.
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
18 Mr. Chairman -- and, you know, I won’t get
19 into -- share the specifics of what I shared, but I
20 did — you know, I do have to mention. This is a
21 difficult budget cycle. I mean, as we know, three
22 billion dollars and two billion in efficiencies.
23 And so, we were -- you know, as we look through and
24 we’re making recommendations, we weren’t able to
25 recommend, you know, increases for every 111
1 institution that we support and serve our students.
2 Now, I do want to take a moment and share
3 that although we didn’t -- we asked for flat
4 funding for those institutions, after having made
5 significant increases over the course of the past
6 two years together, there are a number of other
7 initiatives we’re hoping will incentivize both K-12
8 and higher education to work together to, you know,
9 generate revenue but also, as the same time, bring
10 down costs.
11 So, first, by looking at our graduation
12 standards in the Future Ready PA Index, we are
13 going to be incentivizing dual enrollment and those
14 college pathways, which then help get students into
15 school earlier and help schools engage students
16 earlier, which, you know, not only is a cost
17 savings for the families and for the schools
18 longitudinally but also helps schools partner with
19 their local K-12 system to generate some revenue.
20 Secondly, we are working with the
21 Department of Economic Development around some of
22 the job training grants that could have a positive
23 impact, if, you know, done strategically, which
24 we’re planning to do, would have a positive impact
25 for community colleges across the Commonwealth. 112
1 We also know the institutions themselves
2 have done amazing things. I mean, Penn State, you
3 know, through the early retirement incentive,
4 having almost three hundred, you know, faculty take
5 advantage of that, to bring down, you know, their
6 cost savings.
7 So, we’re helping, you know, wherever and
8 whenever we can, you know, to support those
9 endeavors.
10 So, difficult budget cycle. We always
11 wish we could do more, especially in education for
12 every one of our amazing stakeholders, but what we
13 have to do now is try to support them in ways to
14 find other ways to mitigate costs while, at the
15 same time, bringing in, you know, revenue wherever
16 they can.
17 REPRESENTATIVE ROEBUCK: Okay. My second
18 question is, the budget eliminates a
19 thirty-million-dollar appropriation for University
20 of Pennsylvania Veterinary School, which is an
21 institution in my legislative district. And, in
22 fact, is the only veterinarian school in the state.
23 It’s my understanding that most of that
24 thirty million, if not all of it, goes to
25 Pennsylvania students in order to give them access 113
1 to a veterinary education.
2 I wonder -- again, I know there are
3 priorities. I wonder if you might comment on
4 eliminating funding for what is the only option, in
5 reality, for students who want to stay in
6 Pennsylvania and go to a veterinary school.
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, this is one of the
8 recommendations that came out as a result of the
9 conversation around the McKinsey Report. And they
10 identified a number of, you know, areas to
11 consider.
12 First, nationally, it was the largest
13 state-supported, you know, public — private
14 institution grant, you know, in the country.
15 You know, secondly, it was identified that
16 the endowment, you know, for the University of
17 Penn -- and I always share this lightly, because I
18 at one point have to finish up my graduate studies
19 there and someone will put a target on my back -
20 but, you know, they have a 10.7-billion-dollar, you
21 know, endowment, and, you know, two hundred
22 fourteen million dollars in financial aid per year.
23 So, not an easy decision. I mean, I have to go on
24 the record to share that.
25 But given the consideration and -- you 114
1 know, and the fact that it was the largest, you
2 know, publicly supported line item to a private
3 institution in the country, and, secondly, that,
4 you know, there is an endowment in place, you know,
5 we are hoping that it’s not going to have a
6 negative impact on the students being served.
7 REPRESENTATIVE ROEBUCK: Okay. Thank you,
8 Secretary.
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Chairman, you
11 finished early. Wow. You have a minute to go.
12 Mr. Secretary, I want to thank you. We
13 will reconvene at 1 o ’clock.
14 Deputy Secretary Pilar and Deputy
15 Secretary Miller, if you can’t make it back this
16 afternoon, we understand. And that’s the way we
17 had scheduled the hearing. So, that’s not a
18 problem. If there is any additional questions for
19 either of you gentlemen, we can make sure we get
20 them to you in writing.
21 And I’m going to thank you.
22 Again, we’ll reconvene at 1 o ’clock.
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you, sir.
24 ~k ~k ~k
25 (Whereupon, the lunch break was taken.) 115
1 ~k ~k ~k
2 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR. Good afternoon,
3 everyone. That’s what happens sometimes when you
4 adjourn. Not everybody makes it back. We managed
5 to lose the chairman somewhere along the line. But
6 instead of having everybody sit around and wait, we
7 will continue, and we’ll continue in higher
8 education.
9 And the first questions will be from
10 Representative Milne.
11 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Good afternoon,
12 Mr. Secretary. Welcome back.
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good afternoon.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: I think, in
15 recognition of spring training starting, I’m going
16 to do a doubleheader thing here. I’m going to ask
17 a higher education question and then segue into
18 primary and secondary education.
19 So, just to close up the loop on the
20 higher education, my question relates to
21 educational opportunities and services for veterans
22 and service members who attend one of our
23 Pennsylvania universities. And as I’m sure you’re
24 certainly familiar with, Pennsylvania has the
25 distinction of having one of the highest 116
1 percentages of citizens who do serve in the
2 military, and we contribute mightily to state and
3 national defense efforts. That obviously entails
4 an obligation to make sure that when Johnny and
5 Jane come marching home, they are taken care of, in
6 many ways, heath care, otherwise certainly
7 education, chance to get their life and their
8 career moving.
9 So, maybe you could speak to your
10 perspective about what you’re observing and seeing
11 on our Pennsylvania campuses to make that
12 demographic feel welcomed and to give them
13 opportunities.
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, absolutely. And
15 that is a great question.
16 First, we see, transactionally, also
17 through support on campuses, a real focus on
18 supporting our veterans, especially those that are
19 returning, both with supports on campus and also
20 navigating getting into campuses -- or on to
21 campuses, I should say.
22 I’m also really proud, two specific areas
23 that we’ve invested in the Department of Education.
24 First, veterans preference for veterans and their
25 families around teacher certifications. So, not 117
1 only extremely decreased, you know, fees associated
2 with attaining those certificates, but also an
3 expedited process towards working on teaching
4 credentials for both veterans and the immediate
5 members of their family.
6 Secondly, we just wrote a grant, which I
7 think we have a really good chance of attaining,
8 Troops for Teachers grant, which we can provide
9 opportunities for veterans coming and interested in
10 entering the world of education to work on their
11 teaching credentials, moving forward. So, it’s not
12 something that we’ve just -- you know, we show, you
13 know, respect to those who have served our country
14 in terms of process, but we actively engage in
15 trying to find ways to make life easier for them
16 when they return as it relates to teaching and
17 learning, but also now looking to find ways to fund
18 opportunities for our veterans.
19 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Thank you. It’s
20 very encouraging to hear. And I appreciate your
21 honoring their service in that manner.
22 Secondly, related to primary and secondary
23 education, there is a line item for tuition for
24 orphans and children placed in private homes. In
25 the governor’s proposed 2017-2018 budget, the 118
1 amount is forty-eight billion dollars requested.
2 Your budget materials certainly explained
3 well how that money is to be used, what it’s to be
4 used for, and how it is to be divided up. I’m just
5 trying to get a sense, then, of how many children
6 does that dollars aid and assist?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. I don’t have the
8 specific number in front of us, but many of the
9 students who participate in these programs are
10 students with very specific needs, if we’re
11 discussing the specific programs. So, much of
12 it -- if it’s the programs that are aligned to
13 specific learning and social, emotional
14 disabilities, much of that is run by the percentage
15 of the cost to educate those children. So, I can
16 absolutely get you the number of kids, but that is
17 one of those line items where we -- where we invest
18 state dollars to provide programmatic needs to some
19 of our neediest learners.
20 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Certainly. And
21 just a question in relation to eligibility for that
22 program. Are you aware of whether any foster
23 children have had their public school tuition paid
24 for schools outside of their home district through
25 that program? 119
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: I don’t think so. I
2 think -- there’s an "above and beyond” accounting
3 that’s into place, and it’s formula driven. So,
4 I think, you know, the home district covers up to a
5 point, and then the Commonwealth, you know, we, you
6 know, cover the difference if it’s -- if it’s a
7 program that’s not fully covered.
8 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Thank you very
9 much.
10 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you, sir.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you.
13 Next up will be Representative Kim.
14 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Yes. Good afternoon,
15 Secretary.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good afternoon.
17 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Very disappointed
18 with the flat funding for our fourteen community
19 colleges. I’m a big fan of my local community
20 college, Harrisburg Area Community College, because
21 it expands the opportunities for my low-income
22 families.
23 Oregon and Tennessee are the first states
24 to provide free community college tuitions. In San
25 Francisco, they approved a transfer tax that would 120
1 raise 5.4 million dollars so that every qualified
2 resident can get a free community college tuition.
3 Secretary, we need to do something
4 different. Our workforce is desperate for skilled
5 workers. We are not giving it to them at the speed
6 that they would like. Do you think this is a
7 direction we should be going?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: I understand the
9 concern. And, you know, as -- you know, as I
10 shared, especially when we’re looking at support of
11 our -- at our community colleges, you know, as I
12 shared earlier, and I just have to share because
13 it’s -- only because I get it. I mean, this is a
14 difficult budget cycle, as we’ve been looking at,
15 you know, projected three billion dollars. And,
16 you know, we would like to support all of our
17 institutions of higher education.
18 Now, what we will do, moving forward,
19 although we’ve requested the flat funding on top of
20 the significant funding made available to community
21 colleges over the course of the past two years, we
22 will continue to work with our partners in the
23 community colleges. And Harrisburg Area Community
24 College has been, you know, a significant partner
25 with us and, you know, for us, in the department. 121
1 And we’ll continue to work with them to realize,
2 you know, efficiencies and revenue generation as
3 well as exposing kids through -- to college through
4 dorm rooms and opportunities.
5 You know, we’re going to work very closely
6 with the department of DCED to try to see how we
7 can, you know, utilize those grants together to
8 help support community colleges. You know, we
9 continue to work with them through the credit
10 articulation model, to help improve and align their
11 programs to much needed, you know, adult programs,
12 as well as traditional student programs.
13 So, you know, albeit, you know,
14 understanding the concern around the flat funding,
15 but we’re going to look all around that funding as
16 well to help them, you know, secure grants, find
17 efficiencies, and align programs to meet their
18 needs.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Thank you for that.
20 And my second question and last question
21 is that I’ve learned some concerning statistics
22 that colleges spend millions of dollars on remedial
23 classes so that their freshman students can
24 actually take college courses in college, or that
25 only about 25 percent of high school graduates can 122
1 pass a basic entrance exam for the military.
2 So, with that said, I was very pleased to
3 hear that you announced the Future Ready PA Index
4 initiative. Could tell me how that would help
5 prepare our students for the next level?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. Two
7 significant initiatives introduced, you know, by
8 us, under the direction of the governor, will work
9 to address that preK-through-12/higher ed
10 alignment.
11 First, as you mentioned, the Future Ready
12 PA Index is going to move away from this sweeping
13 cookie-cutter approach to how we, you know,
14 determine school success, which is currently 60 to
15 90 percent aligned to standardized test, to looking
16 at factors that matter. First, achievement
17 factors, by using, you know, the current
18 assessments, but also looking at growth year to
19 year.
20 Next, we want to take a look at what we
21 call on-tract indicators. So, these are the
22 indicators that research shows decrease drop-out
23 rates and ensures success moving into higher ed:
24 third-grade reading level attainment, seventh-grade
25 math level attainment, looking at attendance. 123
1 Because, right now, that is not currently, you
2 know, measured or submitted at the state level.
3 However, those are probably better indicators to
4 ensure future success in your K-to-12 system and
5 higher ed in the workforce.
6 Not only are we looking at those two
7 factors, but we’re identifying what we’re calling
8 college and career readiness factors as well. So,
9 access to high quality programs, dual enrollment,
10 AP, International Baccalaureate programs, career
11 and technical education programs, as well as
12 meeting the needs of English-language learners, as
13 well as special needs students.
14 So, we’re trying to look much more
15 wholistically around how we measure school success,
16 because the current model, you know, is telling us
17 whether or not you’re proficient, but it really is
18 not explaining why or if you’re on track to
19 success.
20 REPRESENTATIVE KIM: Thank you for that
21 initiative. I really appreciate that.
22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
24 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you.
25 Wanted to let it be known that we’ve been 124
1 joined by Representative Marsico.
2 And our next question will come from
3 Representative Quinn.
4 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you, Mr. Vice
5 Chair.
6 And thank you, Mr. Secretary and your
7 team, for being here today.
8 I’m looking at the material that you
9 provided. And thank you. It’s very comprehensive.
10 As of December 31st, 2016, your complement
11 was three hundred and eighty-nine people large.
12 Okay? And we’re budgeted this coming year for four
13 hundred and sixty-five people. The difference
14 there, that’s seventy-six more people. Where do
15 you anticipate them filling, what positions within
16 your department? Do they concentrate in a certain
17 area?
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, when we’re looking
19 specifically at our complement for the upcoming
20 year, two hundred and twenty-four of those
21 positions are state positions, and two hundred
22 forty-one are our complement positions which
23 our federal programs, which -- you know,
24 at the state level. The increase in the two
25 twenty-four are specifically -- are specifically 125
1 aligned to some of the newer initiatives where
2 we’ll be managing both school improvement, looking
3 at our Office of School Improvement as it relates
4 to academic as well as fiscal accountability and
5 support, and also looking at some of the alignment
6 for charter school office, which will support
7 charter schools and cyber charter schools, which
8 are positions that have historically been -- or at
9 least in recent history went unfilled.
10 So, we kind of always assume a number -
11 you know, a number of those vacancies, you know.
12 Some we’re able to fill and some we don’t.
13 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: What confuses me,
14 though, is a couple pages later, on the GGO
15 operation, the continuation, it talks about that
16 2017-’18 year includes a decrease of one million
17 five hundred forty-three thousand dollars as an
18 initiative to implement complement savings. So,
19 I’m seeing an increase in numbers but a decrease in
20 projections for dollars. And it’s not adding up to
21 me.
22 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: Hi, there. Thank
23 you, Representative.
24 So, if I could just point out, on the
25 table, part of what you’re looking at is the 126
1 federal complement. And so, if you’ll notice, in
2 the past several years, although -- for example, in
3 2015, our authorized federal complement was two
4 thirty-seven, we only filled one ninety-two.
5 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Right.
6 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: For this year, was
7 authorized at two forty-one, but we’ve only filled
8 a hundred eighty-nine.
9 Looking forward, we’re still authorizing
10 at two hundred forty-one federal positions, but we
11 have an issue with maintenance of effort.
12 Maintenance of effort means that the feds require
13 us, if we’re going to fill federal positions, that
14 we have to have matching state positions. And so,
15 if we’ve seen any decrease in our state positions,
16 we’re not going to be able to -- to fill those
17 positions because we won’t satisfy our maintenance
18 of effort.
19 So, the savings come from the reduction of
20 the two thirty-four to the two twenty-four in the
21 GGO-funded positions.
22 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Okay. But, for the
23 past two years, then, you’ve demonstrated to
24 yourself that the job could be done with either a
25 ninety-two or a hundred eighty-nine. What happens 127
1 to those dollars that you had ready to match the
2 federal funds but weren’t spent? Where else do
3 they -- where are they realized? I would think
4 that they would show in less dollars the year going
5 forward, as opposed to more.
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we’re going to have
7 Danielle clarify the numbers.
8 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Okay.
9 DIRECTOR MARIANO: I just wanted to
10 clarify, too, that when we’re talking about
11 authorized versus filled, that’s an important
12 distinction. So, if you look at for the December
13 31st, 2016, number, it’s filled two hundred,
14 authorized two thirty-four. For the budgeted, it’s
15 authorized two twenty-four and filled two
16 twenty-four. So, our authorized complement did go
17 down. So, the savings that -- the number that you
18 were referring to earlier in savings.
19 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: 1.5.
20 DIRECTOR MARIANO: Yes. That is from
21 vacancy savings. If you’ll see, it’s a
22 negative-ten in the adjustments to authorized. So,
23 that’s ten vacancies that were removed from our
24 complement.
25 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Excuse me. But if 128
1 you were able to operate in the two prior years
2 without filling them, and I’m not being told right
3 now specifically where the need is in the
4 complement, why the extra dollars? I mean, it’s
5 not like you have a hold harmless in these lines
6 that you have to hold up.
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Understood. I didn’t
8 answer your question earlier. I’m sorry.
9 So, where we look at the vacancies
10 identified, they are the same vacancies. So, we
11 have -- you know, there are a few reoccurring
12 vacancies that exist year to year; however, it’s -
13 the number of vacancies are fluid. So, what our
14 team, you know, has been doing is they’ve been
15 looking at the identified vacancies, restructuring
16 the positions or restructuring departments, and
17 filling based on need in the department.
18 So, the ten vacancies we reduced this year
19 may not have been the same vacancies that the
20 department had last year. So, each and every
21 vacancy comes in for a justification complement to
22 my office through the department heads, and then we
23 identify which of those positions we’re going to
24 fill moving forward.
25 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: I ’m sure it’s more 129
1 complicated than my brain’s taking, but it seems to
2 me if I had a couple of years of a history of not
3 needing -- of not needing 10 percent of my
4 positions filled, that I would just be dropping
5 them.
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: I think -- understood
7 exactly what you’re asking.
8 I think the best way to explain it -- and
9 it is hard to — to wrap your head around. I
10 didn’t fully understand it until I saw it myself.
11 So, every month we identify a number of
12 vacancies -- every few months we identify a number
13 of vacancies. They aren’t the same vacancies. We
14 fill, you know, up until whatever the complement
15 number is, and then some may resign, go to a school
16 district, retire, and so that vacancy number,
17 whereas it may remain static or within a few
18 vacancies of each other, but they’re not the same
19 vacancies. So, we can’t say, well, we did with ten
20 vacancies in these specific areas last year, when
21 the ten vacancies we’re representing today aren’t
22 the same -- are not the same ten vacancies we had
23 last year.
24 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Is a family leave
25 considered a vacancy? 130
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: That’s -
2 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: That’s a "yes" or
3 "no."
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: No. No.
5 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
7 Dean.
8 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Good afternoon.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good afternoon.
12 I want to start by saying I’m appreciative
13 that this budget proposal includes a million
14 dollars for basic education funding, that it
15 includes 11.7 million dollars for early
16 intervention. And I think I want to just examine
17 briefly the bigger picture of basic ed and then ask
18 some specific questions about early intervention.
19 And I always go back to the history of
20 education funding in Pennsylvania in my lifetime.
21 When I was in high school -- and this gives me
22 away -- back in the ’70s, education funding by the
23 state was at about 50 percent and the local level
24 at about 50 percent. And we know that that has,
25 over the last forty years, declined, so that the 131
1 state’s share has gone down to about 36 percent,
2 and, therefore, we wind up with an overreliance on
3 the local share and overreliance on property taxes.
4 And that would be okay, perhaps, if our
5 performance was adequate. But, a recent Washington
6 Post article reveals something we've seen over and
7 over again, that Pennsylvania has the most
8 inequitable spending per pupil in the United
9 States. And it's not close. It's 33 percent more
10 inequitable, lower per pupil of poor districts
11 versus wealthy districts. 33 percent. The next
12 closest state in this sad distinction is Vermont at
13 about 18 percent. So, that's a grave bottom figure
14 for us to be in.
15 We' re also forty-sixth in state spending
16 for education. Coincidentally, or maybe not, we're
17 about forty-sixth in job growth. I think they're
18 connected.
19 So, as I say, I'm pleased that the
20 governor is putting more money to basic education,
21 as he did in the last budget. We're seeing
22 hundreds of millions of dollars.
23 But is there a longer term plan to really
24 dig out?
25 I appreciate that you and other 132
1 secretaries come to us and say, It’s a difficult
2 budget season. It’s a difficult budget season of
3 our making in some measure. If we had the will to
4 find the resources to educate our kids at the level
5 that we ought to be doing it, then we would not be
6 in this difficult budget season that you’re talking
7 about.
8 So, is there a longer term plan to dig
9 out, is my first question. And I have a quick
10 question on early intervention, please.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
12 First, I want to mention, Representative,
13 you’re absolutely correct. When we look at the
14 lowest per pupil school district in the
15 Commonwealth is a little over ten thousand dollars
16 per pupil, whereas the highest spent per pupil
17 school district in the Commonwealth is a little
18 above twenty-five thousand dollars per child, per
19 student, which shows that disparity between how
20 much we’re spending per child across the
21 Commonwealth.
22 I think the first positive step in terms
23 of the investments we’re making in education for
24 children is the basic education funding formula,
25 which takes into account the poverty index, also 133
1 the number of English-language learners, as well as
2 local tax effort. So, providing equity, you know,
3 as well as predictability through the basic
4 education funding formula is an important first
5 step.
6 But the funding formula only allocates new
7 funding to education. And that’s why the
8 conversation we are having today is so important.
9 So, this hundred million dollars on top
10 of, you know, the historic four hundred and
11 fifty-two million dollars invested by the governor
12 and members of this general assembly is an
13 important first step, but equitable distribution of
14 those dollars is going to continue to be extremely
15 important.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: I appreciate that.
17 And that -- it is good -- a healthy beginning.
18 To shift to early intervention, it’s a
19 very important program, of course, in my Montgomery
20 County. And early intervention, you know, the
21 range of services is dramatic. It can be from some
22 early speech, language things to very, very
23 serious, multi-layered interventions to help
24 students before they get to kindergarten succeed.
25 I’m pleased to see, and I know my local 134
1 intermediate unit is pleased to see, an
2 11.7-million-dollar increase. What is that based
3 on? And, s peci fi cal l y, what I would like to know
4 is, do we have an examination of the need so that
5 we know exactly how much we need to fund?
6 So, maybe you can tell a little bit about
7 early intervention.
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. And I’ll
9 let my colleague share a little more of the
10 specifics, but I remember our conversation from
11 last year about early intervention, so it
12 absolutely resonated with me.
13 So, first, the 11.7-million-dollar
14 increase is about a 5 percent increase in early
15 intervention, but not only are we recommending the
16 increase for some of our most vulnerable learners,
17 you know, we currently have a work group meeting
18 together to discuss the identification of not only
19 the services but the funding for those positions.
20 So, we’re really looking at the process, as well as
21 just making, you know, investments in those areas.
22 And we want to make sure that we have a good system
23 to allocate resources and funding for both birth to
24 three and then three, you know, to
25 kindergarten-aged students. 135
1 I don’t know. Does anyone want to share
2 anything specific to that?
3 DEPUTY SECRETARY MORRIS: Yes. Thank you.
4 Thank you for that question. As we are
5 making this historic investment in preschool early
6 intervention, we’re also working with our grantees
7 and our providers at the ground level to pilot
8 future funding strategies so that we can determine
9 the exact amount of need in our communities.
10 We know, as you pointed out, that we have
11 children that are being identified with multiple
12 delays. And that list is growing. So, we’re
13 looking to meet that head on. And we continue to
14 work with our IUs, as wells our MAWAs to
15 understand, again, that exact need.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DEAN: And it’s such a
17 smart investment, because we do know that once you
18 help children in those early years —
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative,
20 I have to kind of cut you off.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: On a happy note.
22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
24 Keller.
25 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you, 136
1 Mr. Chairman.
2 And good afternoon, Mr. Secretary.
3 I just want to take note that page eleven
4 of your testimony contains your plan for investing
5 in Pennsylvania’s teachers and school leaders. So,
6 that would lead me to believe that we both agree
7 that classroom instruction and the human factor of
8 our education system is an integral part and
9 necessary part of our budget; correct? Their
10 salaries and benefits.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes.
12 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. Now, the
13 question I’m going to have, the governor’s Budget
14 in Brief also contains information about schools
15 that teach. And I would imagine that, on the
16 education part, you had input in this document.
17 Yes or no?
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. Then, maybe
20 you can explain why or -- just let me ask if -
21 this is a "yes" or "no" question -- your request
22 for the ’17-’18 budget request in line items for
23 just preK through 12 is about 11.8 billion dollars,
24 yet the graph for ’17-’18 in the governor’s
25 information here shows that it’s about -- a little 137
1 over nine billion. Am I correct in assuming that
2 the graph doesn’t include the pension and Social
3 Security costs for the teachers and the school
4 employees?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: I don’t have that
6 graph, nor the specific detail in front of me.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: But you did help
8 put this together. If I add the pension costs back
9 on -- and the Social Security costs back onto this
10 graph, it comes out almost identical to this.
11 So, I guess I’m wondering, why, in this
12 graph, and if I do it for the previous years, you
13 see the same pattern. So, I’m not seeing that —
14 this graph is sort of deceptive, because we’ve just
15 agreed, right, that the teachers and the school
16 employees are an important part of our education.
17 They’re necessary. Yet we’re not including in this
18 graph of historical funding those items.
19 So, if you’re not sure of that and could
20 get us the answer, I would appreciate if that’s the
21 missing piece to the puzzle.
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: I will absolutely take
23 a look at the specific numbers and forward those
24 over to you.
25 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. Because the 138
1 other problem I have with this is, when you look at
2 the ’10-’11 and ’09-’10 years, I would assume that
3 that includes the federal stimulus money in this
4 graph. Is that correct?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: I believe we backed out
6 the federal stimulus dollars.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Mr. Secretary,
8 you did not.
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: We did not?
10 Well, we’ll verify, sir, to ensure I’m
11 giving you accurate data.
12 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. But my
13 question is, and if we didn’t, I want to know why
14 we didn’t at least note on the graph that it
15 contains those dollars.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: I will answer that -
17 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Because that is
18 very deceptive, quite frankly.
19 But, again, I think the omission of the -
20 from what I’m seeing, the pension costs and Social
21 Security costs in this graph is, you know -
22 because we’re contributing much more to pensions
23 now than we were in ’9-’10 and ’10-’11.
24 So, anyhow, I guess my point is, we all
25 realize that they should be included in there, 139
1 because that is part of having those people in our
2 school systems. And pensions shouldn’t be taken
3 out of the -- just "yes" or "no," do you believe
4 pension costs should be taken out of our education
5 budget, like I think has happened? I mean, will we
6 agree they should be included in there?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Oh, no. I think when
8 we’re specifically looking at the recommendations
9 that the governor’s making for increases in basic
10 education, it’s the funding that’s going into
11 classrooms -
12 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Teachers are in
13 the classrooms.
14 I’m going to end it there, because I’ve
15 got more questions. I’ve got to keep going.
16 But teachers are in the classrooms. We’ve
17 agreed they’re important. And their pension
18 costs -- I mean, nobody else pulls out their
19 employee costs when they figure their cost model
20 for their business, nobody does in private
21 industry.
22 Questions -- I want to go back to
23 Representative Roae’s questioning earlier on the
24 PASSHE contract. You had mentioned that we’re
25 looking for the brightest and the best professors 140
1 for our system -- higher system of education. And
2 that’s why you voted on the contract. Correct?
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: I said we want to
4 create conditions that attract the brightest and
5 the best professors to education our children in
6 the -
7 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. And that’s
8 why — okay. So, I guess the question I have, we
9 have a measurement for our professors to make sure
10 we have the best and brightest there, we keep them
11 there?
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Each one of our systems
13 has a -- has a system of evaluation and a system of
14 hiring -
15 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: -- that ensures they’re
17 picking their specific individuals -
18 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. So, you
19 supported the contract. Does the contract contain
20 a -- because higher ed is different than
21 K-through-12. Higher ed tenure is a collective
22 bargaining thing.
23 Does this contract contain collective
24 bargaining for the PASSHE system? Or is collective
25 bargaining agreement, does that contain tenure in 141
1 it?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: I would say all
3 collective bargaining agreements have general
4 working conditions that are agreed upon by the
5 system and the collective bargaining unit.
6 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Yes or no, does
7 it -- yes, does it mention tenure in the contract?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: I don't have the
9 contract in front of me. I brought my budget book.
10 I didn't bring my contract book.
11 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. But the
12 point is -- and I just read an article on NFL, and
13 they cut players if they don't perform. And I just
14 can't understand, for the life of me, why a sport
15 can make sure they attract the best and the
16 brightest and keep them on their team, when if
17 we're allowing tenure in that contract, and you
18 said we want the best conditions for the best
19 people, so, that's -- I just can't believe that
20 we're putting more emphasis on sports than we are
21 on education.
22 Would the contract allow, if you have two
23 professors that are identical as far as years of
24 service -
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: 142
1 Representative -
2 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: If got -- if their
3 years of service, and one’s having better results,
4 can he get a higher raise than the one that’s not?
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative,
6 I have to cut you off.
7 Representative Daley.
8 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Thanks,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Secretary, very good to see you this
11 afternoon.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
13 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Long day.
14 So, my understanding is that over 70
15 percent of the pension costs in your budget
16 actually go back to pay back debt. And that’s
17 okay, because the normal costs of what -- the cost
18 of the pensions for the current employees is
19 included in the costs for educating our children.
20 I mean, it’s not like you’re eliminating all of the
21 pension costs, just the part to pay back the
22 unfunded liability?
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: The increase that’s
24 associated for school district in the state of
25 the — you have the pension. Most of it goes to 143
1 fund the old debt, unfunded liability.
2 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Old debt, right.
3 Okay. Thank you.
4 So, I also wanted to ask you about special
5 education programs, because in nine of the past ten
6 years, the United States DOE’s Office of Special Ed
7 has certified Pennsylvania’s programs as "meets
8 requirements,” which is the highest distinction.
9 Can you -- that’s a really good track
10 record, nine out of ten years.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Can you talk about
13 how Pennsylvania accomplishes this?
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
15 We have one of the, you know, the highest
16 or most recognized special education teams in the
17 country. And we’re extremely proud, you know, of
18 the work they’ve accomplished. Nine out of ten,
19 you know, years is quite a feat and accomplishment.
20 So, first, I think it’s really, you know,
21 a compliment to the individuals that are running
22 that department. And they are seasoned, you know,
23 well -- you know, well-skilled individuals. And
24 not only do they provide the technical assistance
25 that’s needed day to day to run good quality 144
1 programs, but these are individuals that aren’t
2 afraid to go visit schools and enter classrooms and
3 engage with families and students.
4 And I think, first and foremost, what
5 makes them effective at their job is that they know
6 education and they know families. And as a result
7 of that and the respect they command in doing such,
8 when they make recommendations around the
9 improvement to the field, whether it’s operational
10 recommendations, or compliance recommendations, you
11 know, and probably most importantly and most often,
12 you know, educational, you know, recommendations,
13 they’re respected and listened to. And I think, as
14 a result of their relationship with the field of
15 special education, we continue to exceed the
16 national standard for service.
17 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Thank you,
18 Secretary.
19 [Comment not on microphone.]
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: You’re still green from
21 my table.
22 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Still green.
23 Okay. So, this is probably not a short
24 question, but you can probably -- the question is,
25 the relationship between spending and student 145
1 learning, my understanding is that research
2 suggests that spending matters, but other factor
3 also contribute. And two of those factors are
4 student poverty and parental education. Can you
5 just speak briefly about them, because I believe
6 they’re both -- or at least poverty is factored
7 into our basic ed funding formula. Can you just
8 talk about that also?
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
10 Poverty is one of the greatest indicators,
11 you know, when looking at the success of a district
12 or a community in general.
13 And I think not only are we looking to
14 provide additional support through the basic
15 education funding formula, but the department has
16 looked at a number of strategies to engage in
17 addressing that issue. One of our biggest
18 strategies this year, which we’re really proud of,
19 and we’re starting to see some real movement in the
20 community schools strategy, because we understand
21 that if students are -- you know, students deal and
22 family deals with social, emotional needs every day
23 in our schools. So, by partnering with other
24 agencies, such as the Department of Human Service
25 or the Department of Agriculture, we’re working to 146
1 bring much needed social, emotional resources into
2 schools and school districts as well. We want to
3 ensure that students can, you know, have, you know,
4 vision care. They’re being fed appropriately. You
5 know, they’re -- you know, if they have mental or
6 physical health needs, we’re able to work with
7 partners to -- you know, to engage in that support.
8 So, not only are we looking at equitable
9 resources of funding to these school districts, but
10 we’re looking at strategies that would best support
11 the needs of the whole child. And you’re going to
12 be hearing a lot more of that as we move forward
13 into this year through the governor’s proposals.
14 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: Good. Thank you.
15 Thank you very much.
16 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
18 Jamie Santora.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Thank you,
20 Mr. Chairman.
21 Mr. Secretary, a couple of questions.
22 One, charter schools. In the past two budgets, the
23 governor had initiatives regarding charter school
24 and charter school reform. I did not see anything
25 similar in this budget. 147
1 Does he still have that agenda? And where
2 are on you it? And what types of reforms -- if so,
3 what would they be?
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
5 First, you know, there’s always a question
6 as to where do, you know -- where does the
7 Department of Education stand with charter schools.
8 First, you know, I’ll put out there, you know, very
9 succinctly and directly, charter schools are public
10 schools. And, you know, they’re recognized and -
11 you know, as public schools. So, we have to work
12 on a number, you know, of opportunities as they
13 relate to charter schools.
14 First, in terms of charter school
15 accountability. Charter school laws are outdated
16 and they absolutely -- there’s an opportunity
17 there, you know, to look at some specific areas,
18 such as special education funding as it relates to
19 charter schools. Traditional public schools follow
20 the recommendation of the new special education
21 funding formula. Charter schools do not.
22 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: So, on that,
23 charter schools get, I believe, an average of what
24 the school district spends on their students. In
25 that average, are they including the kids that we 148
1 spend eighty thousand-plus on to put in these
2 special schools? Or is that a separate tier? But
3 do they also have those students in their charter
4 schools?
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, here's the
6 interesting aspect of the special education funding
7 formula. So, all special education costs are
8 included as part of, you know, the special
9 education funding formula. The denominator is
10 always up -- you know, is capped at 16 percent,
11 because that's the state average. So, if a
12 charter -- so, if a traditional public school has
13 an 18, 19, 20 percent special education population
14 and it drives that -- you know, that numerator
15 higher because they're serving a larger number of
16 special education students, you're still dividing
17 that top number by that 16 percent, which then
18 drives the total per student, you know, funding
19 number higher.
20 So, I think -- that's one of the easier
21 areas that we can start to engage in. And,
22 actually, it's one of the areas, as we -- as we
23 have discussions with, you know, really well-run
24 charter schools, they'd love to see that addressed,
25 because they're kind of being painted with a broad 149
1 brush in terms of the mismanagement. And those are
2 schools that -- charter schools that are doing a
3 good job.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Thank you.
5 Going into the shale tax that the governor
6 proposed, I see nowhere where it’s all dedicated to
7 education. It’s been talked about the last three
8 years, since 2014, when the governor was running.
9 That would fund a lot of the gaps that one
10 of my colleagues from, I believe it was, Bucks
11 County spoke about earlier. I saw that, in his
12 projections, seven hundred million’s coming in
13 2021. Had that all gone to the education, we would
14 -- and running it through the new formula, we’d see
15 a lot of good opportunities there.
16 Do you agree with that? Did you have a
17 conversation when you saw this shale tax come out
18 and it wasn’t dedicated to education?
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: Selfishly, I think all
20 funding should come to education in the
21 Commonwealth.
22 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: We’re not all the
23 way there, but -
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I always advocate
25 to that end. Right? 150
1 You know, and then, at the end of the day,
2 there are, you know, a number of other agencies
3 that have needs, and, you know, advocate as
4 aggressively as I do to serve our constituents.
5 But it continues to be one of those areas, you
6 know, that I advocate on behalf of -
7 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: Well, keep
8 advocating for that one. If it’s going to happen,
9 it should go to education. Otherwise, I just don’t
10 see a need for it.
11 But putting that aside, the tax credit
12 program, EITC, OSTC, I think I’ve said it in
13 multiple hearings, I believe it benefits both
14 public and nonpublic schools, more nonpublic in the
15 scholarship side of things, and, yes, there is some
16 funding that’s through EIOs and things that can go
17 to the public schools. But more so, in some of our
18 most populated districts, it’s keeping the class
19 sizes down.
20 I talked about blocks in Philadelphia,
21 average scholarship, eighteen hundred dollars. If
22 a hundred million dollars gets cut out of the tax
23 credit program, and a big chunk of that comes from
24 the EITC, and those families cannot afford to send
25 their kids to a nonpublic school, our public 151
1 schools are going to be impacted.
2 Have you thought about that and how you’re
3 going to be able to come up with the funding to be
4 able to provide for those additional families that
5 are going to have to attend public school because
6 they can no longer afford the nonpublic school?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah, not specifically
8 to the impact of the funding. I understand that
9 that’s a conversation that the general assembly and
10 governor continue to have.
11 For us, what we’ve been looking
12 specifically at is how to make sure that, when
13 allocated -- when agreed upon and allocated, we get
14 that funding out to schools, you know, as quickly
15 and efficiently as possible.
16 So, we stay ready to facilitate the
17 transaction of those dollars as, you know, the
18 governor sees fit.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SANTORA: I’m done, but you
20 should keep that in mind for the future with your
21 planning, because if it gets cut, it’s going to be
22 a real problem for our public schools, especially
23 our larger populated schools in poorer areas.
24 Thank you.
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you. 152
1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
2 Kinsey.
3 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Thank you,
4 Mr. Chairman.
5 Mr. Secretary, I’ m going to ask you to
6 just bear with me for a second. I thought I heard
7 you say some things a little bit earlier and I need
8 to go back and make sure I’m clear on that.
9 I think in your conversation with Rep.
10 Daley, did I hear you say that over 70 percent of
11 pension costs pay for pension debt and is not
12 reflected in today’s classroom? Is that correct?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I always say the
14 vast majority, because whenever I start to share
15 the specific percentages, depending on how you’re
16 looking at it -
17 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Sure.
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: -- you know, it can be
19 argued.
20 But I will, again, say two important facts
21 on the pension system. One, the vast majority of
22 the pension contribution goes to fund old debt.
23 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Old debt.
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: And the second, you
25 know, really important distinction is that the 153
1 average PSERS annuitant makes twenty-seven thousand
2 dollars a year, you know, which is always something
3 that’s surprising when I share, you know, because
4 there’s always this assumption that the average
5 annuitant in the PSERS -- in our -- you know, in
6 the education pension system makes a hundred
7 thousand dollars a year. And the average annuitant
8 makes a little over twenty-seven thousand dollars.
9 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Okay. Thank you
10 for sharing that.
11 Also, earlier, in talking with some of
12 Rep. Dean’s questioning, I thought I heard you say
13 that, here in Pennsylvania, the high that we pay
14 per pupil is twenty-five thousand. What was the
15 low, again, for that?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: A little over ten
17 thousand.
18 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: A little over ten
19 thousand.
20 So, the average — I’m not a
21 mathematician -- so the average that we pay per
22 pupil is roughly -
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah, I think -- of
24 course, the averages are -- you know, fluctuate
25 because of the number of school districts -- 154
1 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Sure. Sure.
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: -- but I’d say it’s
3 about fourteen -- when we looked at it at one
4 point, it was a little over -- between thirteen and
5 fifteen, but I want to get those numbers out to you
6 to make sure they’re accurate.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Okay. I
8 appreciate that.
9 And the reason I’ m asking these questions,
10 Mr. Secretary, is because I was looking at some
11 other data, and it -- and the numbers might be off
12 a little bit -- but it’s that we pay an average of
13 forty-three thousand dollars for individuals who
14 are incarcerated. And so, when I look at what
15 we’re paying for individuals who are incarcerated
16 versus what we’re willing to spend on educating
17 children, you know, it’s a great disparity, from my
18 vantage point, which is very concerning for me as
19 well.
20 Let me ask this. I hear this quite often.
21 I’ve heard folks -- educators -- say that they use
22 third-grade tests to sort of predict individuals
23 who may not be successful and, therefore, might end
24 up incarcerated. Is that -- have you heard
25 something similar to that? Or is that just a myth? 155
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: No, absolutely. When
2 you look at the recommendation we're making for the
3 Future Ready PA Index, it's looking at third-grade
4 level as one of the indicators, because research
5 shows that reading on grade level by third and
6 fourth grade is a better indicator -- is a great
7 indicator, better indicator for high school
8 graduation, which is an exact indicator around in
9 terms of some of our incarceration rates.
10 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Sure.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: It's also a better
12 indicator as to whether or not you're going to be
13 successful in postsecondary or not.
14 So, you know, and the reason being is you
15 learn to read by third grade, and third grade and
16 above, you read to learn. So, if you've never
17 learned to read, you're never going to understand
18 the content that comes after that point.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: I appreciate you
20 sharing that.
21 And as I'm sitting here, I'm just taking
22 this all in. You know, what we're spending for
23 folks incarcerated, what we're willing to invest -
24 and I applaud the governor for looking to put more
25 money into early education, because it makes sense, 156
1 based on, you know, what’s taking place out there
2 and how we spend taxpayer dollars. So, I do
3 appreciate you sharing all that.
4 I want to jump real quick for a quick
5 second. Again, I represent Philadelphia County.
6 Not long ago, there was an incident where a boiler
7 blew up in one of the schools not far from my
8 district. Unfortunately, a gentleman passed away,
9 died from that incident.
10 And more recently, I had an opportunity,
11 members of the Philadelphia delegation had an
12 opportunity to meet with the superintendent of the
13 Philadelphia School District, where he rolled out a
14 plan for their facilities. And I think he -- for
15 all the facilities within the school district, he
16 talked about maybe spending five billion dollars
17 just to bring them up to a particular standard.
18 I guess, what I’m asking you to do is, if
19 you can sort of tie in -- I mean, there’s some
20 concern we have in regards to safety within our
21 school district facilities. You know, some of them
22 are pretty old. But how does that work? You know,
23 local municipalities or local school districts, how
24 do they interface with the state in regards to just
25 trying to bring some of these facilities up to 157
1 code? Or standard. I’m sorry.
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. It’s a great
3 question. And probably a really good opportunity
4 to highlight the work of the PlanCon commission.
5 And, you know, both of the chairmen here today and
6 a number of other elected officials, we sit
7 together on a commission where we’re visiting
8 school districts to discuss exactly that, the
9 future of our PlanCon reimbursement. So, that’s
10 the process by which we reimburse schools for
11 school construction.
12 And, you know, so we’re -- you know, we’re
13 in the process now of discussing the future of that
14 process, and as to -- and as to whether or not
15 we’re going to continue to provide those
16 reimbursements.
17 Specific to Philadelphia, we visited and
18 did a great tour of Overbrook High School, you
19 know, to see what -- you know, just where the needs
20 in terms of construction, maintenance, and, you
21 know, facilities are there. And, you know, the
22 discussion around boilers and the upkeep of boilers
23 came up. The discussion around lead in water, you
24 know, came up. You know, the discussion around
25 day-to-day facility needs and support was -- you 158
1 know, was a really deep conversation. And, I
2 think, you know — one, I’m hopeful that, you know,
3 we will be able to work through this, because the
4 conversation is robust and is supported, you know,
5 in a bipartisan, bicameral manner and also by the
6 governor.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: Mr. Secretary, I
8 see the chairman -
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: Right.
10 REPRESENTATIVE KINSEY: So, Mr. Chairman,
11 I want to thank you for the latitude.
12 And, Mr. Secretary, I appreciate your
13 answer. And I’ll follow up with you as well off
14 record.
15 Thank you very much.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
18 Miccarelli.
19 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: Thank you,
20 Mr. Chairman.
21 And thank you, Mr. Secretary.
22 The governor and the legislature are
23 obviously very worried about the opiate crisis
24 going on in Pennsylvania. And part of the omnibus
25 school code was an idea brought forth by 159
1 Representative Taylor, from Philadelphia, about
2 recovery schools. There was a pilot program and,
3 you know, there was a requirement in the school
4 code, vis-a-vis Representative Taylor’s bill, that
5 your department put forth some type of curriculum
6 and kind of get that ball rolling.
7 Was that done for this for ’16-’17?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Much of the work around
9 recovery schools, you know, the language was
10 introduced. I think the unfortunate part of the
11 bill is that it was not funded. So, the language
12 on the bill and some of the work around the bill
13 was, you know, introduced, and we moved forward.
14 However, the funding for, you know, for the school,
15 the increase, was not included as part of the bill.
16 And I think that’s what contributed to
17 the -- to the standstill. But much of the work and
18 due diligence around it has -- you know, has been
19 accomplished.
20 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: When you say
21 the "work and due diligence,” can you be more
22
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, the coordination
24 with drug and alcohol and the conversation to
25 understand the expectation of the bill and to kind 160
1 of, you know, for lack of better terms, prepared
2 those next steps for facilitation were there. We
3 have just not realized the funding for it yet.
4 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: So, I mean,
5 you’re saying it wasn’t specifically funded, but it
6 was part of the omnibus school code, though;
7 correct?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Without a funding -
9 without a funding source.
10 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: Without a
11 mechanism. So, there has not been an RFP or
12 anything done to this point.
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: No, not yet.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: Okay. Thank
15 you very much.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
18 Gainey.
19 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Again, good
20 afternoon, Mr. Secretary. How you doing?
21 First, I want to say thank you for all the
22 work that you put in with the Wilkinsburg-City of
23 Pittsburgh public school partnership.
24 I wanted to know what you thought about
25 it. To me, it seemed like it’s been a tremendous 161
1 success, the consolidation between the two — not
2 the whole school district in Wilkinsburg, but a
3 part of it.
4 Secondly has there been any savings that
5 we’ve seen or what does the savings look like in
6 the next five years, going forward?
7 Thirdly is, are we still working closely
8 with the school board in Westinghouse to build a
9 stronger curriculum?
10 I’m happy to report there’s been no major
11 violence, no major setbacks, or anything, just a
12 great unity between two neighborhoods.
13 But what I want to know is, going forward,
14 we also discussed about that curriculum and how we
15 build a strong curriculum to move those kids to
16 where they should be. So, I wanted to follow up
17 with that.
18 And, again, I just wanted to thank you on
19 that.
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you,
21 Representative.
22 And I also want to take a moment and thank
23 you for championing, along with your colleagues,
24 you know, to really make this a success.
25 So, first, we would identify and classify 162
1 it as a success for a number of reasons. One,
2 looking at it fiscally, you know, we were able to
3 provide Wilkinsburg with a pathway, you know, to
4 better balance their budget. We understand that
5 they weren't able to properly provide a program
6 for -- you know, to their school -- to their high
7 school, their middle, high school students, you
8 know, within the district. And not only did the
9 partnership, you know -- you know, help for them to
10 realize, you know, some financial savings, so to
11 speak, or some financial right-sizing -- I don't
12 want to call them savings. It also provided a
13 tremendous opportunity for those students in
14 Wilkinsburg that went on to Westinghouse.
15 So, they had access to an increased number
16 of career and technical education programs that
17 they didn't have access to in their home schools.
18 They had access to course work, advanced placement,
19 and multiple, you know, math and literacy and
20 humanities courses.
21 You know, and lastly, I guess another real
22 point in pride is, since -- you know, since that
23 time, the board of the Pittsburgh Promise
24 Scholarship fund voted to include the Wilkinsburg
25 students as part of the Pittsburgh Promise, meaning 163
1 they’re going to be offered college scholarships to
2 move on from Westinghouse to -- to their choice of
3 postsecondary institutions that that -- you know,
4 that qualify through the program.
5 So, we always, you know, have this
6 conversation around, you know, right-sizing and
7 fiscal, you know, considerations, but this is one
8 of the cases where we’re able to provide, you know,
9 some fiscal stability to two school districts -- a
10 school and the school district -- but, also, you
11 know, almost triple to quadruple the number of
12 offerings to kids, you know, to become successful
13 in life, which is probably, you know, the greatest
14 , when you think about it longitudinally.
15 And, you know, lastly, it’s something that
16 my team and I, you know, continue to monitor. I
17 mean, no -- you know, no marriage or merger is
18 perfect. So, what we do is, whenever we hear any
19 rumbling, we work really hard to get someone on the
20 phone or some boots on the ground to support
21 accordingly.
22 REPRESENTATIVE MICCARELLI: The community
23 of a school model, can you give us a briefing, just
24 from a state perspective, how the Department of
25 Education is playing a role in the community of 164
1 school’s model?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we’re taking a
3 facilitation staffing role. One of the biggest
4 lessons learned, I think, you know, as the
5 secretary, was that we don’t want to own everything
6 fully, because if there’s ever a shift in, you
7 know, in the Commonwealth, in the state, we want
8 this work to continue.
9 Pittsburgh’s probably a great example.
10 We’ve actually had a number of folks in the
11 district helping facilitate and navigate through
12 the process of identifying a district-wide
13 community school coordinator. So, this person will
14 work within the community and facilitate
15 partnerships with hospitals, mental health
16 providers, backpack programs to send food home over
17 the weekend for students and families to eat, you
18 know, connecting with eye doctors and dentists
19 alike, to push services into the schools.
20 So, some of the most robust models of
21 community schools are where doctors and schools
22 work together to provide the services right onsite,
23 among the ground. But some of the other
24 partnerships -- you know, I was just visiting a
25 school that’s engaging here in Dauphin County where 165
1 there were about two hundred backpacks filled with
2 food and everything up to dish washing detergent
3 that was sent home with students who qualified over
4 the weekend, you know, to ensure that the family
5 and the kids were eating, you know, on Saturday and
6 Sunday, all free of charge to the school district
7 and to the school, because local partners stepped
8 up to, you know, provide that service. And, they
9 were able to -- all they had to do was facilitate
10 the process, and as a result, you know the quality
11 of life of students engaged.
12 So, Pittsburgh’s looking to follow a very
13 similar model.
14 REPRESENTATIVE GAINEY: Thank you,
15 Mr. Secretary.
16 Thank you, Chairman.
17 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
18 Curt Sonney.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Thank you,
20 Mr. Chairman.
21 Mr. Secretary, good to see you.
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: Great seeing you, sir.
23 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: I believe you have
24 the authority to authorized the use of about four
25 and a half million dollars a year for school 166
1 districts that are in financial watch or financial
2 recovery.
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Did you use any of
5 those dollars in the ’16-’17 fiscal year?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Going to open up to
7 my fiscally distressed page here really quickly.
8 So, we’ve not distributed all of that
9 funding, but we have -- you know, we have used some
10 of that funding for fiscally distressed school
11 districts. Currently, we have four, and some that
12 are on watch.
13 Some of the funding is used specifically
14 for technical support, to ensure, you know, they’re
15 working to balance their budgets and also to
16 complete, you know, much needed paperwork, you
17 know, to the state and other lenders, as a result.
18 But it’s still one of the areas we have a small
19 balance in.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And do you plan on
21 needing those funds again in the next fiscal year?
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, every year, what we
23 do is, we take -- there’s a small portion of -- you
24 know, of our budget that -- that is held over from
25 year to year. This year, it’s probably a little — 167
1 you know, a little under nine million dollars, and
2 4.5 million dollars of that will be allocated
3 for -- you know, for those recovery funds.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: How many districts
5 do we have in recovery today?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we have four
7 districts in recovery, and we have, you know, a
8 handful of districts that are still in -- that are
9 now on financial watch.
10 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: You said a handful
11 of districts in financial watch?
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes. We do -
13 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And what do you -
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: Five, five other
15 districts.
16 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And what is the
17 department looking to achieve when a district is in
18 financial watch?
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: I don’t know if I can
20 use the term "achieve." I mean, you know, what we
21 do by identifying those districts in financial
22 watch gives us an opportunity to provide technical
23 support to those school districts for, you know,
24 anything from review of their, you know, their
25 financial books, so to speak, to connecting them 168
1 with other like resources that can align, allocate,
2 and prioritize funding.
3 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And was financial
4 watch a new program that was just started? Or
5 is -
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: No, we did not start
7 financial watch or recovery under this
8 administration.
9 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: So, it's been in
10 use for a while.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: It has.
12 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And does watch
13 generally lead to recovery?
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: Not always. You know,
15 there are a number of schools, you know, and school
16 districts that have -- you know, that have been in
17 watch and kind of stay in watch status. But it
18 doesn't always, you know, lead to recovery.
19 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And have you heard
20 from any districts concerning the new funding
21 formula and how that is going to impact them in the
22 future?
23 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I haven't heard
24 from districts specifically regarding the new
25 funding formula and the impact. We are having 169
1 conversations with districts around the data sets
2 and, you know, and how -- you know, how the data
3 sets would -- how the process, you know, would
4 impact how local school districts look at funding,
5 but not -- not as it relates to distressed status.
6 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: You know, quite
7 often, if we change a funding formula, what we
8 really do is make it just a different set of
9 winners and losers, you know. And I’ve already
10 started to hear from some of my local districts
11 that, you know, for lack of a better term, were
12 winners under hold harmless and are going to be
13 losers under the new formula. You know, even
14 though they agreed to it because they think it’s
15 fair, but they’re going to be in trouble.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: I remember sitting as
17 part of the basic education funding commission, and
18 that was, you know, probably the longest
19 conversation we had around, you know, the fact that
20 hold harmless, you know, benefits, you know, some
21 school districts and not others, and, as a result,
22 you know, is agreed upon by -- you know, by the
23 commission and, ultimately, the general assembly
24 and governor, that only new funding would be
25 distributed under the basic education funding 170
1 formula.
2 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Have you noticed
3 any theme whatsoever with the schools that have
4 been in distress in one way or another? You know
5 is there a particular reason why, you know, that
6 they’re there?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: So -
8 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Because the vast
9 majority obviously are not.
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, many of the school
11 districts that we’ve seen fall within the
12 distressed, you know, school model, it’s -- you
13 know, we see school districts that have lost
14 industry, lost jobs, or tax-paying industry,
15 whether it was, you know, support through grants
16 or, you know, tax contributions, revenue, you know,
17 locally. We’ve also noticed, you know, drops or
18 decline in real estate revenue in some of those
19 districts.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: But all of those
21 then are -- so, really, what you’re saying is, is
22 that it’s their ability to tax the local people is
23 what has been hurting their ability to sustained
24 their budgets.
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: In some of those school 171
1 districts, yes. To generate local revenue. Which
2 is why we continue to -
3 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: And it’s the local
4 revenue imbalance really that creates the imbalance
5 between all of the districts; correct?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yes, sir.
7 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: You know, those
8 districts that are fortunate enough to be flush
9 with revenue, and have, you know, people living
10 there that have good jobs and -- and can afford
11 higher taxes, they’re paying those higher taxes.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. And that’s why
13 equity was the biggest, you know, point of
14 discussion under the basic education funding
15 commission.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: With that -
17 REPRESENTATIVE SONNEY: Thank you,
18 Mr. Chairman.
19 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
22 Bullock.
23 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you.
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 Good afternoon, Mr. Secretary. 172
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: Good afternoon.
2 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: I heard
3 you talk about our -- some of our community and
4 schools program, in particular the -- I was really
5 excited to hear about the one program that provides
6 food package and other necessities to families over
7 the weekend.
8 And I wanted to follow up a bit on that.
9 As we know, a lot of our children come to school
10 without breakfast or may not have even had dinner
11 the night before. And nutrition is a very
12 important part to start our day and to actually
13 function throughout the day. And as our children
14 struggle with just learning our A, B, Cs, and 1, 2,
15 3s, the last thing they need to worry about is
16 their stomach speaking to them.
17 And so, I see that there has been -- the
18 budget includes a two-million-dollar investment
19 that may leverage additional dollars to expand our
20 school breakfast programs and other nutrition
21 programs.
22 Can you talk a little bit about the school
23 breakfast and any other nutrition and
24 you may have throughout the Commonwealth?
25 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely. 173
1 The governor’s proposing a
2 two-million-dollar investment that will -- you
3 know, that will allow us to leverage almost ten
4 times that in federal funding to expand our school
5 breakfast program. I mean, as you shared, we know
6 if students come to school hungry, which many of
7 our student do, it is extremely difficult, you
8 know, to learn, engage, and, you know, just
9 generally grow and pay attention.
10 So, part of what we’re doing is not only
11 recommending a financial increase in this program,
12 but we’re looking to change some of the conditions
13 in which our school breakfast programs currently
14 run. So, changing some of the programs. For
15 example, we want to introduce a grab-and-go in some
16 of our secondary schools, where students come to
17 school, and they’re able to grab their breakfast
18 and then go on to their first period. You know, if
19 you have a teenager or above or you know a teenager
20 or above, you know, that, you know, at the
21 beginning of the day, as easy as you can make it
22 for them to nourish themselves while moving on, you
23 know, they’re more likely to engage and
24 participate. And it takes away the stigma, right,
25 you know, of that program. 174
1 And we're also looking at, you know, what
2 I call the breakfast-in-the-classroom program -
3 there's a more official name for it -- but this is
4 where, in elementary schools, they can serve
5 breakfast in the classroom at the start of the day.
6 You know, sometimes we see some school districts
7 that try to engage in this practice and maybe read
8 during that breakfast program or bring all the
9 students at a time to another room within the
10 school.
11 But this additional funding the governor
12 is, you know, recommending will allow us, you know,
13 to institutionalize some of those models to serve
14 breakfast, and I think, as a result, you know, more
15 and more kids will start participating.
16 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: I appreciate your
17 initiatives and looking at school breakfast in a
18 different way.
19 I know at my son's school, they actually
20 do have a school breakfast in the classroom. He's
21 kindergarten, and I think they do that for their
22 preK through first grade classes. And it makes a
23 difference, because other circumstances may prevent
24 a child from getting to school on time or early
25 enough to have breakfast or the stigma that goes 175
1 along with it. So, I really do appreciate you
2 looking at it from all those perspectives and
3 having a more creative way to meet the needs of
4 those children.
5 Do you have any -- or are you aware of the
6 programs that may be available over the summer and
7 during school breaks so that those children can
8 continue to receive school breakfast? I know, in
9 Philadelphia, we do have a very active lunch
10 program. What other programs are you aware of to
11 continue to provide meals and nutrition to those
12 students throughout the summer?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, that’s one of the
14 areas under the direction of the governor again.
15 And he has been actively engaged in this last
16 summer, that we continue, you know, to lobby, in
17 some cases, the federal government, to find ways to
18 meet our federal expectations of reporting and
19 accounting while providing meals to kids over the
20 summer.
21 So, some of what we continue to do is try
22 to find -- we have to have congregational feeding
23 sites, so to speak. And so, how do we -- how do we
24 use that term a little more broadly or how do we
25 create those across the Commonwealth. And not only 176
1 our urban centers, but we’re finding this is a
2 significant issue in many of our rural school
3 districts; right?
4 And so, we’re working together to continue
5 to redefine and reinvest in those areas, interpret
6 the language in a way that best benefits kids. So,
7 we’ll keep doing that as well.
8 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: I look forward to
9 seeing how you do that. I know we do some block
10 feeding, like community block programs and day
11 cares and libraries and other ways to get those
12 children to a congregational setting so that they
13 can have access to those nutrition programs.
14 Just real briefly, if I have some time -
15 I think I do -- in regards to your recruitment of
16 our teachers and substitute teachers within the
17 school districts throughout the Commonwealth, are
18 you seeing any trends or any challenges? And what
19 are your forecasts in that way?
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, this is an area
21 that we are -- that we are especially concerned
22 about. I mean, when we look at almost the past now
23 ten years’ reduction -- I used to share that the
24 number, you know, was over 50. It’s now over 60
25 percent reduction of first-time certified teachers, 177
1 which is a serious concern to us.
2 So, we’re looking at a number of ways.
3 One, changing the program. Secondly, we’re working
4 with some men-of-color programs to diversify the
5 pool and create a pipeline. And, secondly, we’re
6 looking at alignment of some two-plus-two-plus-two
7 programs that will bring teachers.
8 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: What are
9 two-plus-two-plus-two?
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: Yeah. I’ll stop at
11 this.
12 So, two-plus-two-plus-two are two years of
13 high school, two years partnering with, like, a
14 community college or another institution to finish
15 high school while earning general ed higher ed
16 credits, and two years in your concentration
17 aligned to education.
18 REPRESENTATIVE BULLOCK: Thank you for
19 sharing.
20 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing
21 that.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
23 Helm -- or, I’m sorry, Representative Knowles.
24 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you,
25 Mr. Chairman. 178
1 Mr. Secretary, I want to call attention
2 to, in your written testimony, the governor’s
3 2017-2018 proposed pilot for supporting
4 persistently struggling schools. On the top of
5 page eleven, you note: Successes at the school
6 level cannot be sustained in the absence of strong
7 district leadership, reforms to collective
8 bargaining, and attention to within district
9 resourcing.
10 Can you just talk a little bit about what
11 kinds of reform in collective bargaining would you
12 be referring to?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: I think it’s important
14 to capture a full picture as I share that answer.
15 First, we know that, nationally, and, you know,
16 historically, here at the state, when we look at
17 reform models, it’s always based on a really
18 limited source of data, and then making, you know,
19 changes that tend to be structured or, what I like
20 to refer to as, cookie-cutter initiatives pushed
21 in. But we realize, at the root of all school
22 reform, we have to engage people. We have to
23 engage superintendent, principals, teachers, you
24 know, support staff. We have to engage the
25 community. 179
1 So, when we look at, you know, for example
2 reforms to collective bargaining, part of what
3 we’ve done this year -- over the course of the past
4 couple of years -- I will use York city as an
5 example. By engaging them in a really deep-dive
6 diagnostic, the teachers were able to get involved
7 and really have a say in how we -- how we wrote a
8 standard-aligned curriculum from kindergarten
9 through twelfth grade.
10 As a result of some of the interventions
11 that were put in place in that school, when the
12 teachers voted on their new contract, they actually
13 extended their -- they voted to extend their own
14 day by forty minutes. The problem really wasn’t
15 about extending the day. It was about extending
16 the day in a meaningful way. And those teachers,
17 overwhelmingly, you know, voted to extend their
18 day, not because we asked them to, not because we
19 said you had to, but because we created a framework
20 that was meaningful, and they wanted to have a
21 better opportunity to educate kids. So, that’s one
22 example of collective bargaining, you know, changes
23 that can take place.
24 In some schools, we’ve recommended change
25 in principals. And, you know -- and to work, you 180
1 know, to facilitate -- to facilitate that change,
2 you know, with the local school district.
3 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: If I may, sir, I
4 only have five minutes.
5 SECRETARY RIVERA: I get passionate about
6 this.
7 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: I appreciate
8 that, sir.
9 Are there any specific districts or
10 agreements where you think that kind of stuff
11 should be implemented? Did you have any in mind
12 when you were writing this?
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, no. And I think
14 that why -- I mean, I think it would be premature
15 to, you know, to think so. That's why we're
16 starting with deep-dive diagnostic.
17 You know, I think part of the challenge
18 with change -- and we know it as people, as leaders
19 in this room ourselves, when someone tells you you
20 have to change, you know, then there's always a
21 little bit of push-back around the change. Now,
22 when someone engages you and you identify the areas
23 that must be -- that must change, and you engage
24 the local community, there is a greater likelihood
25 for sustained change. And that's what, you know, 181
1 we want to accomplish -
2 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: My third and
3 final question regarding that sentence, "attention
4 to within district resourcing." Could that
5 possibly include state mandate relief?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: It could. I mean, some
7 of the conversations we’ve been having with the
8 chairs of the Education Committee, you know, in
9 both chambers, sometimes include some of the -
10 some of the policies that are detrimental to school
11 improvement.
12 So, we don’t do any of this alone. I
13 mean, we tend to really work with — you know, with
14 the staff and with the leaders of the Education
15 Committees.
16 REPRESENTATIVE KNOWLES: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 Thank you, sir.
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
21 Boyle.
22 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you,
23 Secretary. I know this is a very long day.
24 I’m right here, by the way. I know, a
25 little further removed. 182
1 But, during the Rendell administration, we
2 saw a huge investment in preK-through-12 education.
3 And we saw a real impact in the test scores of our
4 students because of it.
5 I think of that, because, right now, when
6 I look at the per capita student funding in
7 Pennsylvania, when compared to the rest of the
8 northeastern United States, we lag behind in test
9 scores. And we saw that the progress during the
10 Rendell administration was halted, it was stalled
11 once Tom Corbett became governor.
12 So, I’m curious to see if you think,
13 philosophically, there is a direct connection
14 between education funding and test scores?
15 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, absolutely.
16 We see a direct correlation. And this is
17 something I saw as a superintendent, you know, as
18 well. There is a direct correlation around —
19 between how much is invested per student, you know,
20 at a school and the local level, you know, and that
21 performance. Whether the direct correlation is,
22 you know, directly tied to, you know, the resources
23 that are available to those students or, you know,
24 the income of families, because some of our, you
25 know, higher-income communities just happen to also 183
1 invest more, you know, to their schools in those
2 areas. But there are a number of factors.
3 But as we can see, the data shows that
4 student achievement success is directly tied to
5 socioeconomic standings and the investments made in
6 those schools.
7 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: And you’re aware
8 that we are among the lowest, if not the lowest,
9 among per capita funding for students in the
10 northeastern United States?
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we are -- so our
12 average -- so, our average per student funding
13 makes it look that we’re a little higher, that
14 we’re high. But when you look at the disparity
15 between our lowest districts, our lowest per
16 student funded district and highest per student
17 funded districts, we’re in the -- we’re well low in
18 the lowest quartile. So, that disparity is where
19 we’re probably amongst the worst in the country.
20 REPRESENTATIVE BOYLE: Thank you.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
23 Helm.
24 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thank you,
25 Mr. Chairman. 184
1 I want to talk about accountability this
2 time. In the governor’s budget proposal, I see a
3 lot of specifics about how much additional funding
4 will be going to school districts, along with a few
5 mentions of stronger accountability.
6 Can you talk in a little more detail about
7 how you plan to hold school districts accountable
8 for their performance and how they spend their
9 additional money?
10 I ask because I’ll often hear people
11 complain about their property taxes, but I hear
12 them say, I don’t mind paying, but I’d like to know
13 about the accountability.
14 SECRETARY RIVERA: Um-hum. So, we’re
15 actually recommending probably one of the most
16 comprehensive accountability systems that we’ve
17 seen. And actually, as we’re looking at, we could
18 probably compare across the country. I think, when
19 you look at what we’ve been identifying -- what
20 I’ve been identifying as the Future Ready PA Index,
21 which will be our system of accountability for
22 schools, is going to look at multiple factors not
23 only standardized tests but reading level, access
24 to high quality programs, enriched language
25 instruction, how we meet the needs of our special 185
1 needs students.
2 So, we are looking at engaging in a much
3 more robust system of accountability. But we’ve
4 also been asking school districts -- they’ve been
5 having to account to us where they’re spending some
6 of the new funding, especially some of the grant
7 funding that we’ve been -- that we’ve been giving
8 to school districts. And I can share with you
9 that, overwhelmingly, the number one area that
10 they’re investing that money is to increase
11 full-day kindergarten classrooms.
12 The second area that school districts have
13 been -- the second highest area school districts
14 have been focusing on is STEM alignment of their
15 programs, so then also utilizing technology as part
16 of the programs.
17 And then, the third area that’s been
18 pretty high is providing professional development
19 for the teachers to do -- you know, to engage in
20 the first two.
21 So, we have been tracking where school
22 districts are spending a lot of their new money,
23 especially those grant funds. And it’s all aligned
24 to some of the best practice we’ve been seeing in
25 education. 186
1 But, you know, once we -- you know, when
2 we come next together and I’m able to present to
3 the smaller groups the Future Ready PA Index what
4 we’ve been putting out there, we’re going to be
5 holding schools accountable for factors that really
6 impact education, moving forward.
7 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: And what about
8 teacher evaluations? What are you doing in that
9 respect?
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, teacher evaluation
11 is driven legislatively. I mean, there’s a law
12 that dictates how we evaluate teachers, which is
13 why I’ve kind of been staying away from that
14 conversation. What I hope to do is change what
15 we’re investing in and how we’re holding schools
16 accountable. And hopefully before my tenure is
17 over as secretary, we can sit down and really have
18 conversations around educator evaluation.
19 REPRESENTATIVE HELM: Thank you.
20 And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
23 Krueger-Braneky.
24 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Thank
25 you, Mr. Secretary. 187
1 Pleased to have another round of questions
2 this afternoon to dive into some of the issues on
3 preK and preK to 12.
4 I, like many of my colleagues, was very
5 exci te d to s ee the i ncrease in preK funding this
6 year, seventy-five million dollars. And to my
7 colleague Rep. Kinsey's points, we learned at the
8 corrections hearings last week that we spend about
9 forty-five thousand dollars a year for one person
10 to be incarcerated in Pennsylvania. And by my
11 math, we could be educating five kids in preK for
12 every one person that we're incarcerating.
13 And as you've said over and over again,
14 there's so many indicators -- third-grade reading
15 level, seventh grade math levels -- that help us to
16 evaluate whether a child is going to be on track to
17 be a productive worker or entrepreneur or a higher
18 ed graduate, or to be more likely to be
19 incarcerated. So, this early investment is just so
20 key to everything else.
21 I want to drill down on two issues today
22 related to testing. I have an approved private
23 school in my district, the George Crothers Memorial
24 School, and I've been to visit them a number of
25 times. And the last time that I was there, a 188
1 parent grabbed me and told me about the PASA test
2 and how this is a test that is administered. It’s
3 the Pennsylvania Alternative System of Assessment.
4 And they are required to administer this to all
5 students, even the students in this school who are
6 medically fragile and nonverbal.
7 Why are we requiring testing of nonverbal
8 students? That’s one.
9 And two, how much is it costing us to
10 administer the PASA test?
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, it’s a federal
12 mandate that every student must be tested on -- you
13 know, on the state assessment. The PASA test is
14 actually a test that we administer to the
15 percentage of special needs students. And so, we
16 hear anecdotally and it’s always a question that
17 comes up across the Commonwealth.
18 You know, to share with you -- we can
19 follow up with the specifics around PASA, but I can
20 share with you, we spend about thirty-seven dollars
21 a student on state-wide assessments.
22 I can also share, just while -- you know,
23 since you started with, you know, with early
24 childhood, which I think is an important factor if
25 I don’t get to share it later on, even with the 189
1 significant investments that we have made over the
2 course of the past two years and recommending this
3 year for PreK Counts and headstart, in order to
4 qualify for those programs, you have to live three
5 times above the federal poverty level.
6 So, even with the many slots we've created
7 over the course of the past three years, there's
8 still 60 percent of our students who would qualify
9 that aren't served. So, there's always this
10 question, is, all right, we're creating all of
11 these slots, you know, is there a need? Well,
12 we've just touched the surface. And we've invested
13 a great deal in early childhood over the course of
14 the past, you know, three years together. And, you
15 know, when you take into account, you know, it's
16 still a little over 40 percent, you know, that have
17 been served. And, you know, our rural communities
18 still continue to be underserved and a concern.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: And I
20 appreciate that. Every time I see the governor, I
21 talk about the importance of more preK investment.
22 I think he knows it's coming when he sees me at
23 this point.
24 So, I'd love to see even more in next
25 year's budget, because, again, from the 190
1 return-on-investment standpoint, there’s almost no
2 better investment that we can make, I think.
3 I just want to go back to the testing
4 piece. So, you said that this is a federal
5 mandate. There’s no leeway. There’s nothing that
6 Pennsylvania could be doing. There’s no models
7 from other states to make this a less invasive
8 requirement on families, particularly of kids with
9 severe intellectual disabilities.
10 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: Yeah. Thank you.
11 So, right now, we’ve just actually
12 redesigned our PASA exam. And it’s going to be
13 going through the federal peer review process
14 coming up here, and that’s part of what’s required,
15 because it is used to satisfy federal guidelines.
16 And I think, you know, we’ve involved our
17 advocacy communities, and others have been involved
18 in helping us do the redesign. And I think, you
19 know, the challenge is we have to demonstrate an
20 alignment to standards while still making the
21 accommodations for the very significant needs that
22 students have. And there are limitations for how
23 many -- what percentage of our students can take
24 that exam.
25 So, we’ll continue to work with our 191
1 stakeholders on that and, you know, make it an
2 experience that is meaningful -- as meaningful as
3 possible while still demonstrating their knowledge
4 of standards.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: I’m glad
6 to hear that. I’ve sat in a class of nonverbal
7 kindergarten students who were also required to
8 take these same tests. And it just doesn’t make
9 sense. And I don’t think -- at a price of
10 thirty-seven dollars per student on state-wide
11 assessments, I don’t think it’s a good use of any
12 dollars, especially taxpayer dollars.
13 I want to drill down to the Keystone exams
14 as well. The legislature acted last year. There
15 was a moratorium on the Keystones as a -
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative,
17 sorry. Another round.
18 REPRESENTATIVE KRUEGER-BRANEKY: Okay.
19 Thank you.
20 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: To finish our
22 first round here, Representative Boback.
23 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 I see, once again, there’s no request for 192
1 funding for the Governor’s Schools of excellence,
2 and that’s a program that’s certainly near and dear
3 to my heart, among others. But that’s a big one,
4 because it’s not driven by income, but it’s for any
5 one of our students that wants to achieve and wants
6 to go above and beyond. It’s for the best and the
7 brightest. And it seems as if we leave them out of
8 the loop, that there’s nothing there for them.
9 And, again, it’s anyone, whether it’s
10 driven or not driven. In this case, income makes
11 no matter.
12 So, my question is, I did see something
13 that, over the past few years, department has been
14 able to direct some funding to the Governor’s
15 Schools. Can you tell me how you did that? What
16 line item is that?
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, first, I share your
18 appreciation of Governor’s Schools, and, of course,
19 this continues to be a difficult budget cycle in
20 which we have to make some difficult priorities.
21 So, not specific to line items, but, you
22 know, because of the impact of Governor’s Schools,
23 what we’ve been able to do and what I’ve been able
24 to really advocate significantly for is, any time,
25 you know, anyone, an industry partner, a business 193
1 partner, some — you know, a national, you know,
2 institution that has, you know, a grant or some
3 additional funding they’d like to allocate, I tend
4 to steer, you know, towards connecting with, you
5 know, with our Governor’s Schools that are out
6 there, because, you know, we understand that it
7 becomes much more difficult to fund educational
8 programs. These are very, you know, worthwhile
9 programs for the students they serve. And so,
10 wherever and whenever I can make connections, you
11 know, for the Governor’s Schools and our
12 constituents that want to support these types of
13 programs, I’m able to do that.
14 You know, secondly, I think there was a
15 small -- there was a small return of federal -- of
16 a federal spend that was given to us. It was a
17 one-time, you know, quick spend that we were able
18 to allocate. It was a small amount of money, but,
19 you know, it was one of the areas that we had to
20 identify quickly. And we were able to identify the
21 Governor’s Schools to receive that.
22 So, it wasn’t a dedicated line item. It
23 was something that was kind of, you know, out there
24 nationally. And we were able to align it to
25 Governor’s Schools. 194
1 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Well, thank you
2 for that. I do have legislation to, once again,
3 bring them back. And maybe we can meet, and any
4 help you can give my cause, because it's also
5 yours, would be appreciated.
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
7 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Again, every part
8 of this spectrum is addressed through the
9 Governor's Schools. So, thank you for that.
10 I'm going to shift my gears and go to the
11 different end of the spectrum with the preK
12 programs. Can you get back to me with how many
13 preK programs we do offer in the state?
14 You can probably answer me, are they
15 driven by income?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, the majority of the
17 program -- so, there is criteria, and income is one
18 of the criteria to participate in a state-funded
19 preK program.
20 So, the share -- actually, you know what,
21 I'm going to let Susann showcase this, because I'd
22 have to read this, but Susann knows this off the
23 top of her head.
24 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Do your thing,
25 Susann. 195
1 DEPUTY SECRETARY MORRIS: Sure.
2 So, through PreK Counts, we support
3 approximately eighteen thousand children. And
4 through our headstart state supplemental assistance
5 program, which supports federal headstart programs,
6 we support approximately fifty-five hundred
7 children. And those are income means tested
8 programs.
9 We also license PDE private academic
10 nursery schools, but don’t provide funding for
11 seats for those schools. So, that offers a variety
12 of programs that are under the PDE purview in terms
13 of touching on the early learning spectrum.
14 And then, on the other side of the house,
15 through DHS, we also offer a child care subsidy.
16 And we offer a quality rating improvement system.
17 I’m sure you’re familiar with the Keystone STARS
18 program.
19 So, we do have a wide variety of early
20 learning programs in the state.
21 And I am not sure if that answers your
22 question in terms of the reach that you’re looking
23 for.
24 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: In a way, it does.
25 But if you could provide me with a list, and I’m 196
1 looking if there are overlaps in any of these
2 programs.
3 Another concern I have, having been a
4 teacher for thirty-three years, that, in our state,
5 kindergarten is not mandated, let alone full-day
6 kindergarten. So, the students that we're helping
7 with preK programs, would some of them have been in
8 a kindergarten program if their district offered a
9 preschool?
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, most of our preK
11 programs are three- and four-year-old programs.
12 So, it's driven by age.
13 I will share with you -- and I don't know
14 the data on this, but I know this anecdotally, just
15 through conversation with superintendents, there
16 are areas in which you may attend a three- or
17 four-year-old program and then not have a full-day
18 kindergarten to attend, so that creates some
19 difficulty for families.
20 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: That's my concern,
21 too.
22 Last question, through the education
23 budget, is that where we get money to feed our
24 children on weekends and during the summer? Where
25 does that money come from? 197
1 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, much of it is
2 federal pass-through dollars, you know, for
3 nutrition. And I will share with you, the weekend
4 feeding programs, and I want to say almost all of
5 that -- but I’ll say most of that, just to make
6 sure I’m not wrong, that’s done locally. Many
7 local districts find ways to provide that support
8 and service to students.
9 REPRESENTATIVE BOBACK: Wonderful. Thank
10 you.
11 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
13 Briggs.
14 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you,
15 Mr. Chairman.
16 Thank you, Secretary.
17 Just, I’m going to plug one of my bills,
18 and then ask you about another topic.
19 Since this last election cycle, fake news
20 and media literacy, I think, has been a concern
21 that keeps coming up. And I introduced House Bill
22 661, which would require the department to come up
23 with curriculum to teach kids how best to filter
24 all the information that’s coming to them. So, if
25 that makes it to you -- or maybe before that, I 198
1 could get some advice on how to make it happen.
2 But, also, something that’s been happening
3 a lot since the last election, and it’s quieted a
4 little bit down, but the instances of bullying and
5 racism and religious tolerance has really bothered
6 me as a father. And I wanted to talk -- ask you a
7 little bit, if you could address how -- what the
8 response of the department was, or, you know, what
9 you guys did after -- after that to best prepare
10 the districts.
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
12 First, I will share with you, on the issue
13 of, you know, how to better navigate, you know,
14 data -- your information that’s online, I’ll put
15 it -- I’ll put it that way, I actually have a
16 number of teachers that have already started
17 writing units around, you know, how students find
18 their information online and how they synthesize
19 that information and, you know, what’s real versus
20 not what’s — you know, what’s not real. And I’ve
21 asked that they submit a lot of that to include on
22 our online portal for other teachers to use. So,
23 there’s a lot of work now happening in schools and
24 school districts across the Commonwealth
25 specifically in that area. 199
1 Secondly, we've seen an uptick on -- you
2 know, on bullying, on bias, you know, based on
3 race, gender identity, based on, you know,
4 socioeconomics, you know, language. And, you know,
5 we've had to respond pretty aggressively. And so,
6 we've taken, you know, a look at some of, you know,
7 what has been done historically, but we also
8 created a bunch of new pathways.
9 So, first, I'll share with you around
10 bullying, we created a bully prevention hotline
11 that we've been disseminating out to schools. And
12 there's actually a -- we've partnered with
13 Highmark, I believe, around that hotline. And
14 there's an actual designated, certified, seasoned,
15 social service professional on the other end of
16 that call, you know, to help -- you know, help
17 those students that who are calling the hotline to
18 discuss just how they're feeling, issues of
19 bullying, and what next steps are.
20 Secondly, we've worked with a number of
21 community partners to address these issues of bias.
22 You know, we've worked with the NAACP, the Urban
23 League, IUs, our patent system, educators,
24 community leaders, to create a response. And as a
25 result, we created a tool kit that we put on our 200
1 online systems, or the SAS portal, SAS PA, for
2 schools across the Commonwealth to utilize the
3 supports, everything from, you know, discussion to
4 intervention, how to deal, you know, with these
5 issues of bullying and bias, you know, language and
6 actions and the like.
7 And then probably, more aggressively or
8 lastly, we’ve identified a number of areas that,
9 you know, we’re having extreme difficulty, in which
10 we had to, you know, kind of pull together what -
11 you know, what I use -- what we call in the field
12 drop teams, where you kind of send a whole group of
13 system supports, everything from leadership to, you
14 know, to counseling onsite and psychological
15 services onsite to support school districts
16 accordingly.
17 So, we’ve done everything from making
18 resources available to everyone getting into a car
19 and, you know, responding accordingly.
20 And, you know, I’m really proud of my
21 team. I mean, in one day, you know, we realized
22 this was a big issue that we -- we didn’t
23 necessarily have a system, you know, to address
24 comprehensively, and they came together, pulled
25 stakeholders together, and worked hard to address. 201
1 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Thank you for
2 doing that.
3 Is that -- just in your current budget
4 just operating, or was there — was there a
5 department that was in place that you could have
6 expanded on?
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we have a
8 Department of Safe Schools that never kind of dealt
9 with an issue like this. You know, I had to laugh
10 when you said about budgets, because we didn’t even
11 think about where we were going to find the money
12 to do this. You know, we just had a team of twenty
13 people work, you know, through the weekend, all
14 night, to make this happen. And probably,
15 embarrassingly to say, I didn’t even think about
16 it. But no one asked for any form of compensation.
17 They used the resources they had, even expended
18 their own resources, you know, to make it happen.
19 But there’s no designated budget to this. But we
20 were able to utilize some resources out of our Safe
21 Schools office.
22 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Well, thank you
23 for doing that. It sounds like a lot of teachers I
24 know, how they just pitch in and try to finance to
25 problems they face. 202
1 Just in closing, if you could -- am I
2 still good, Chairman? Did I just turn red?
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: When you -
4 REPRESENTATIVE BRIGGS: Round two. Thank
5 you.
6 Thank you, Secretary.
7 Thank you, Chairman.
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you, sir.
9 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Sorry,
10 Representative.
11 Representative Roae.
12 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Thank you,
13 Mr. Secretary, for your testimony.
14 As you know, Governor Wolf has proposed
15 that the minimum wage be increased to twelve
16 dollars an hour. I don’t think that would impact
17 the department directly, because all your employees
18 are probably above that. But have you guys
19 evaluated how that would impact school districts
20 and intermediate units and headstarts and, you
21 know, preK programs, and things like that?
22 SECRETARY RIVERA: No. We haven’t done an
23 official evaluation of how that would impact the
24 department or school districts. I can share with
25 you, just anecdotally, as we’ve been engaging in 203
1 conversation, school districts will tell you how
2 much their neighbors are paying those positions
3 probably dictates more what they’re going to have
4 to pay to find qualified individuals. But we
5 haven’t done an official study as to what -- how
6 minimum wage would impact it.
7 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Okay. And then, in
8 your written testimony, on page two, you had
9 written that, you know, PA still ranks near the
10 bottom in state funding. And Governor Wolf, you
11 know, frequently says, that as far as state funding
12 for education, Pennsylvania ranks near the bottom.
13 I was looking at U.S. Census Bureau data,
14 and it shows that the average state spends -
15 excuse me, they provided five thousand six hundred
16 fifty dollars of revenue per student on average.
17 That’s what the average state does, five thousand
18 six hundred fifty dollars. According to the census
19 bureau, Pennsylvania provides state revenue of six
20 thousand fourteen dollars per student. So, that’s
21 about three hundred sixty-four dollars more than
22 the national average. That’s actually
23 twenty-second highest in the country.
24 If you took that higher dollar amount and
25 you multiply it by the 1.7 million students, 204
1 Pennsylvania's actually providing six hundred
2 nineteen million dollars more than we would be
3 providing if we provided the exact national average
4 for revenue per student.
5 So, my question is, why do you and
6 Governor Wolf keep saying that PA ranks near the
7 bottom when it comes to, you know, state revenue
8 for education?
9 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, when you look at
10 the percentage of state effort as, you know -- as
11 is contributed to per student funding, Pennsylvania
12 is amongst the bottom percentage-wise of what the
13 state contributes to school districts to fund
14 schools, to fund -- for per student funding.
15 Of course, when you look at the numbers,
16 if there are communities in states that invest less
17 dollars and the state gives a few more dollars
18 toward less overall dollars, their percentages may
19 look higher, but when you look at, on average, per
20 student funding, what the state's contribution to
21 that is amongst the lowest in the country.
22 And -
23 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Well, we have a time
24 limit, so I'm going to move on here.
25 When you look at the average revenue per 205
1 student in the United States of America, the
2 average, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, is
3 twelve thousand three hundred eighty dollars per
4 student. Pennsylvania is sixteen thousand six
5 hundred forty-four dollars per student. That’s a
6 total of federal, state, and local money. So, in
7 Pennsylvania, it’s the ninth highest in the
8 country. There’s forty-one states that have less
9 revenue for a student in Pennsylvania.
10 It’s frequently said that Pennsylvania,
11 you know, drastically underfunds their schools and
12 there’s no serious effort to provide, you know,
13 funding for education in PA. And the numbers don’t
14 seem to bear that out.
15 But, as far as the percentage you were
16 talking about, if PA school districts started to
17 spend twenty thousand dollars per student or thirty
18 student per student, or forty thousand per student,
19 do you think the state should be providing an
20 ever-increasing amount of funding just so we can
21 have a high percentage of state funding for school
22 districts budget? Or do you feel that Pennsylvania
23 should get school spending under control and see
24 what other states are doing?
25 Because if other states have twelve 206
1 thousand three hundred eighty dollars of tax
2 revenue per student, and Pennsylvania is at sixteen
3 thousand six hundred forty-four dollars of tax
4 revenue per student, you know, why are we so high?
5 And do you think that we should always just
6 automatically give them some percentage of their
7 funding no matter how much they spend?
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I think you have to
9 be very careful when you're looking at numbers and
10 comparing them to other states across the country,
11 because, you know, we know that the truth of the
12 matter is, you also have to take a look at what
13 that investment is yielding. You know, the
14 governor nor I have, you know, sat at the table and
15 asked for increased funding to increase the state's
16 shares or the state's contribution to education
17 without also recommending a robust, intensive, and
18 deliberate system of accountability.
19 Secondly, when you take a look at just
20 Pennsylvania as an educational system or unit,
21 we're the twelfth largest school system in the
22 country, which also demands that we're going to
23 invest a little more, you know, total --
24 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Should be more
25 , if we're one of the largest; right? 207
1 There’s greater cost effectiveness -
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative,
3 I have to cut you off with that.
4 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: All right. Thank
5 you, Mr. Chairman.
6 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
7 Grove.
8 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 Secretary, good to see you again.
11 Question one, just going back to the
12 conversation with my colleague here, if you’re
13 looking at local efforts and how much that plays an
14 affect between state funding and local funding, a
15 lot of states have spending caps on local school
16 districts. Are you suggesting we need spending
17 caps to control local spending so we can get to a
18 50/50 split?
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, that’s not
20 something we recommended, nor have dug, you know,
21 more deeply in. But what I — you know, just as a
22 glance, as I consider it, we know that we’re very
23 locally controlled. We have school boards, five
24 hundred school boards across the Commonwealth that
25 make that decision every year. And I would never 208
1 assume to make a recommendation to the general
2 assembly that, you know, removes that authority
3 from the local school board.
4 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. I don’t know
5 why I was looking at it, but the actual original
6 school code passed by Thaddeus Stevens and the
7 former Governor Wolf was actually a 50/50 split
8 between state and local school districts. But the
9 school districts were capped at the amount of money
10 the state shared. So, if you want to talk about
11 original 50/50, that was the original 50/50 split.
12 And there was a spending cap.
13 Moving on to kind of benchmarking, there
14 has been discussion about preK. Is it the goal of
15 the administration with PreK Counts and headstarts
16 to add individual slots, basically student slots?
17 Is that your overarching goal, moving forward, for
18 this fiscal ask?
19 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we have been -
20 we’ve been sharing how the funding impacts early
21 childhood by sharing what the number of slots
22 created are, but our goal is to create high quality
23 preK centers.
24 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. So, you want
25 to benchmark that to actual outcomes of those 209
1 programs; correct?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Ultimately, yes.
3 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: So, you could use
4 KI, and you can use reading at a -- reading at
5 grade level by third grade; correct?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: Ultimately, we should
7 be able to. It’s not currently a system that we
8 have aligned, but it’s something -
9 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. Because I
10 look at your program measures, and it is,
11 literally, we just want more slots versus actually
12 benchmarking it to outcome.
13 So, if you could provide the committee -
14 and how long have we had PreK Counts? Decades?
15 SECRETARY RIVERA: About -
16 DEPUTY SECRETARY MORRIS: Yes. It’s on
17 its ten-year anniversary.
18 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Ten years. All
19 right.
20 We should have robust data on the success
21 of those students, moving forward. So, how were
22 they at grade level, particularly the original
23 students enrolled? So, more robust data on the
24 success of that would be beneficial, moving
25 forward, to make sure we are funding outcomes. 210
1 Second question is, in your accountability
2 benchmarks, particularly, I have interest in why
3 last year's executive budget 2016-'17, for
4 accountability for K through 12, you used percent
5 of CT students proficient, advanced in mathematics
6 PSSAs. This year, you used percentage of students
7 proficient, advanced in mathematics.
8 Why use CTE last year and K through 12
9 this year?
10 By the way, it reflects how wonderful CTE
11 is doing, but it does not provide a benchmark to
12 see success, moving forward.
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: That's probably
14 something that we'll to have -- do we have that
15 information in front of us today?
16 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: I'm not sure what
17 you're referring to. You're right in that our
18 NOCTI scores have increased every year for the past
19 five years, and we're at about an 87 percent pass
20 rate.
21 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: It's your actual
22 measures in the '16-'17 executive budget. We're
23 literally comparing success between last year and
24 this year. One is on CTE, the other is overall
25 students. That does not provide a good benchmark. 211
1 And then, when I look further, last year,
2 your actual benchmarks for reading, because reading
3 we can compare, in ’15-’16, you wanted 77 percent
4 proficient, advanced, 79 percent in ’16-’17, and
5 then ’17-’18 you wanted 82 percent.
6 This year, you’re reflecting for ’15-’16,
7 a 60 percent proficiency, 63 percent proficiency in
8 ’16-’17, and a 66 percent proficiency in ’17-’18.
9 What’s the discrepancy percent reduction
10 between last year and this year?
11 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: So, one thing to
12 bear in mind is that in spring of 2015, we went to
13 a new PSSA exam, and so, because it’s a different
14 exam, the scores had to be adjusted to match the
15 targets based on the administration. It’s not the
16 same exam.
17 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: So, the 17 percent
18 reduction is in -- because of a realignment of
19 what, again, the PSSA?
20 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: So, I think it
21 would be good. We can follow up with that
22 information for you.
23 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Yeah. Because this
24 is PSSA, it’s not the FRPI. It’s not that
25 benchmark. You’re looking at a different one. 212
1 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: Sure.
2 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: And then, I noticed
3 that the percent gained in mathematics PSSA
4 proficiency from fifth to eighth grade, same
5 students, and then, percent gains in reading
6 proficiency from fifth to eighth grade, same
7 students, is traditionally just going to increase
8 by 2 percent and 3 percent.
9 Are you predicting additional dollars in
10 the out year budgets?
11 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative,
12 I’m going to cut you off with that.
13 REPRESENTATIVE GROVE: Okay. Thank you.
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
15 Kampf.
16 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 Mr. Secretary, just a quick comment, and
19 then I’ll get into a couple of questions.
20 You were talking about a -- a state of our
21 size, eleventh or twelfth, I guess, in terms of
22 enrolled students in the country. I think you were
23 essentially saying we ought to be spending more.
24 At least, when you include state, local, and
25 federal dollars, my understanding is we’re fifth in 213
1 the country, twenty-eight billion.
2 So, if you -- in my mind, if you count all
3 that, I think we meet your standard.
4 And there was a comment earlier about the
5 Rendell administration putting significant dollars
6 into basic education. And while that may be true,
7 there was, in that year, a -- a very regrettable
8 short changing of the public school retirement
9 system contributions. And as a result of that,
10 this year, we are going to contribute -- us and the
11 locals -- four and a half billion of that
12 twenty-eight billion just to keep the pension fund
13 going, which is one of the reasons why I'm a very
14 ardent advocate for defined contribution plans.
15 Because if we had one back at that time, we would
16 not be in this very regrettable situation.
17 That said, the PA assessment line is
18 fifty-eight million three hundred thousand this
19 year. It was the same last year and the year
20 before. We noticed in the materials that you sent
21 to us on the spending for two years ago that you
22 had a budget reserve of 3.3 million. And then for
23 this -- for '16-'17, you have an unspent amount, so
24 far, of thirteen million out of that amount.
25 So, I guess my question is, is that three 214
1 million and that thirteen million available, such
2 that we might be able to reduce the 58.3 for
3 ’17-’18 and put it somewhere else?
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: The funding that was
5 placed in budgetary reserve and available is the
6 funding that was the set aside for the graduation
7 requirements, which are currently placed in a
8 moratorium through Senate Bill 880. Once a
9 graduation requirement is approved, we are going to
10 have to shift that funding to maintaining -- for
11 maintenance on the new graduation requirements.
12 So, that is -- those are funds that are set aside
13 to meet the needs of the -- once we have a grad
14 requirement placed, to facilitate that process.
15 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Okay. What about
16 the thirteen million for ’16-’17?
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: That’s what those funds
18 were.
19 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: I thought -- so,
20 the three million from ’15-’16 is set aside for the
21 graduation requirements, and the thirteen million
22 for ’16-’17 is also set aside for the graduation
23 requirement?
24 SECRETARY RIVERA: For graduation
25 standards, correct. 215
1 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: So, for example, if
2 that was -- if that was postponed, might we be able
3 to free up sixteen million?
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: No. We wouldn’t have a
5 graduation requirement for students to graduate
6 from high school in the Commonwealth. We’re
7 actually pushing to have an actual graduation
8 requirement in place.
9 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Okay. But, for
10 example, if that were put off, sixteen million from
11 the prior to year would be available; correct?
12 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: It wouldn’t be.
13 If I may, just briefly. You’re right
14 about the 3.3 in budgetary reserve from last
15 year -- from last year’s waiver dollars. For this
16 year, that thirteen million that you’re referring
17 to are the dollars that have not yet been expended.
18 So, it’s unclear how many of those dollars will be
19 used for -
20 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Do you have an
21 estimate for how much of the thirteen million will
22 be available or set aside for the graduation
23 requirement?
24 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: We set aside -
25 given some of the unknowns, it depends on the way 216
1 that the graduation requirements would be written
2 into law. So -
3 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Okay. And then,
4 for ’17-’18, are you also assuming some amount will
5 be for the graduation requirement?
6 SECRETARY RIVERA: In ’17-’18, we’ll have
7 full assessment, but some of it will be allocated
8 for graduation as well as our other assessment -
9 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: And, I mean, I’m
10 just trying to free up some dollars here, if
11 possible, Mr. Secretary.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Understood.
13 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Roughly, for
14 ’17-’18, is there any money that’s going to be set
15 aside again for the graduation requirement?
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: I would say, while we
17 have -- there will be some funding allocated for
18 the graduation requirement as -
19 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: How much do you
20 think?
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: Year to year, we look
22 at what those line items are and what’s needed to
23 fund.
24 REPRESENTATIVE KAMPF: Thank you.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative 217
1 Greiner.
2 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thanks,
3 Mr. Chairman.
4 I want to go back to a question that was
5 kind of asked before the lunch hour on people
6 transportation. And I know you said you had a part
7 of that decision making. The budget proposes four
8 hundred ninety-nine million dollars for that, and
9 it's a decrease of fifty million. We talked about
10 that. That's a 9 percent decrease.
11 The budget indicates the savings will be
12 realized through from a new proposed
13 funding formula.
14 A couple things. Let me list the
15 questions.
16 Can you provide any more details on the
17 this new funding formula? When will we be able to
18 see a printout that shows how much our school
19 districts received in '16-'17 and how much they're
20 projected to receive in '17-'18 under this new
21 proposed formula? Can you explain exactly how this
22 new formula creates efficiencies and cost savings?
23 Will the school districts be required to collect
24 and submit additional data? And the last question,
25 isn't it possible that a school district's cut in 218
1 their transportation funding could actually be
2 greater than the increase that they receive in
3 their basic education funding?
4 And I’m just going to make -- just opine
5 just for a second, in that, for the sake of
6 transparency and doing things the right way, if we
7 were going to have a formula such as this, why
8 wouldn’t we want to create a commission like we did
9 for special ed and for basic education?
10 I mean, I actually think that’s something
11 that should have been considered. That — but I’ll
12 let you answer those others questions.
13 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, efficiencies within
14 the transportation subsidy formula was one of the
15 recommendations that also came as a result of the
16 McKinsey Report.
17 So, the Department of Education and the
18 governor’s budget office came together and created
19 a starting — a starting point. So, there is -
20 so, first, in terms of the detailed formula, there
21 isn’t yet a detailed formula. We’re actually
22 looking to both work within the governor’s office
23 and with members of the general assembly to, you
24 know, really solidify what a formula looks like.
25 So, when we identified the fifty million 219
1 dollars in proposed savings, there were a number of
2 considerations that went into account.
3 First, the current formula was last
4 adopted in 1972. And when we compared 1972 to this
5 year, we know that there are opportunities to find
6 efficiencies in a number of areas. You know,
7 first, the fuel cost, fleet management, you know,
8 efficiencies in -- you know, advances in fuel
9 efficiency, you know, as well as changes in routes
10 across district schools.
11 We also realize what’s different from the
12 ’70s is that -- is that 80 percent of our current
13 school districts outsource their people
14 transportation services. So, we’ve not necessarily
15 looked at a way to incentivize changes in that
16 bidding process, you know, which is something that
17 I know comes up, you know, normally in
18 conversations that -- you know, that we have
19 together.
20 So, first, you know, I can share with you,
21 detailed formula, we looked at some of those
22 potential efficiencies, but, you know, that’s
23 something that both the governor’s budget office
24 and the Department of Education will work, you
25 know, with the staff from the general assembly to 220
1 solidify many of those factors.
2 The printout, historically, the department
3 has never done a transportation printout. So, it's
4 not something that we probably run a comparison or
5 be able to run a comparison around. I shared with
6 you where we think we can find, you know, those
7 efficiencies. And one of the areas that I would
8 specifically, you know -- you know, work to
9 advocate, you know, against is trying to require
10 more, you know, data and information from school
11 districts. We have had the, you know, the data,
12 you know, review committee and, you know, we
13 continue to try to maintain efficiencies in that
14 data.
15 And then, of course, you know, part of our
16 conversation together will be, you know, whether or
17 not there would constitute a situation or a time in
18 which the cut would be greater than the increase.
19 But it's an old formula. And this was one
20 of the areas that was identified, you know. And
21 both the budget office and the Department of
22 Education thought it would be a good starting point
23 to move forward to try to find efficiency in
24 that -- in transportation.
25 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: I appreciate, 221
1 appreciate the answers. I do think that we need to
2 be more open. I think we need to look at this —
3 there’s a lot of rumors out there from different
4 schools about how things are being done and how
5 much they’re getting. I mean, like you said, you
6 don’t even have a formula and we’re already hearing
7 it. And I do think it’s something that needs to be
8 looked at.
9 And I am concerned about schools getting
10 less funding than the prior year, when you look at
11 their grand -- you know, the total allotment. So,
12 I -- I think it’s something we’re going to be
13 looking at, because I know it’s a very key part of
14 this budget. So -
15 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
16 And if I can just reiterate, because I
17 think it’s important for me to mention, this is a
18 starting point. You know, we haven’t solidified a
19 formula. We fully intend to work with the budget
20 office and the general assembly to realize, you
21 know, the savings.
22 REPRESENTATIVE GREINER: Thanks,
23 Mr. Secretary.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
25 Quinn. 222
1 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you.
2 Thanks for hanging in there with us today.
3 So, back looking at the GGO lines for your
4 department, and I see where the benefit factors for
5 2017 are going to increase by 1.7 percent to 71. -
6 I think it’s to 71.70 percent.
7 Could you please break that down for me
8 with regard to pensions? How much of that is
9 pension? How much is health benefits?
10 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
11 DIRECTOR MARIANO: So, you’re correct.
12 The average benefit percentage of salary for
13 ’17-’18 is about 72 percent. And that equals about
14 12.6 million dollars.
15 And then that percentage of pension -- the
16 percentage of that that is pension costs is about
17 32 percent, or around five million dollars. And
18 so, the pension costs make up about 42 percent of
19 the total benefit.
20 And I don’t have specific numbers on the
21 breakdowns of, like, Social Security or health care
22 or anything like that, pension being one of the
23 largest.
24 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: So, let me ask.
25 When you say 12.6 million dollars for health, is 223
1 that the entire payment towards health benefits?
2 Or is that the increase?
3 DIRECTOR MARIANO: I’m sorry. It’s 12.6
4 million dollars is all benefits, not just health.
5 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Okay. Thanks.
6 I believe I asked this time last year the
7 same question. I’ve asked this of others.
8 With regard to an audit on dependent
9 benefit -- on a beneficiary’s dependents, and it
10 was just brought to my attention today that there
11 was a press release put out by the auditor general
12 of Pennsylvania, just held a press conference the
13 other day, and he discussed a recent audit of the
14 York County Children and Youth -- nothing to do
15 with education -- but according to the audit, there
16 was almost five hundred and seventy-nine thousand
17 dollars of cost savings, going forward, for
18 disallowed costs. The majority of the money was
19 disallowed costs related to health benefits.
20 You do not have a huge complement of
21 people, however our school districts do. Would you
22 be supportive of a dependent benefit audit
23 throughout the school districts of Pennsylvania to
24 ensure that those people who are getting the
25 benefits that taxpayers are paying for are actually 224
1 eligible for them?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Many school districts
3 across the Commonwealth -- as a matter of fact,
4 when I was a superintendent, I engaged in a
5 dependent audit of my school district. Now, in
6 order to find continued savings, it’s actually
7 happening in many school districts -
8 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: So, do you agree
9 that it’s a good thing to do from a policy point of
10 view?
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: I always -- I don’t
12 know why it wouldn’t be or would be in terms of
13 policy. But any time anyone asks me whether it’s a
14 good move for policy, I’m always -- there are lot
15 of nuances we would need to discuss. But I do
16 support school districts engaging in dependent
17 benefit -
18 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: When your -- when
19 you were superintendent and conducted it, did you
20 realize some cost savings, going forward?
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: We did realize some.
22 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Then I would think
23 that it would be common sense, that given, you
24 know, studies that have found it -- I’ve yet to
25 come across an article or -- I’ve done a lot of 225
1 work on this -- where there’s been -- where we
2 haven’t realized great savings.
3 I’m going to just switch. Earlier, in
4 answer to someone else, you talked -- there was a
5 question about mandates, and you commented that you
6 would be -- I don’t want to put words in your
7 mouth, but basically interested or happy to look at
8 mandate policies that are detrimental.
9 Could you identify a couple of them,
10 please?
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: You know, mandates are
12 interesting -- well, yes. So, we continuously
13 engage in conversations with both school board
14 members and the association with superintendents,
15 you know, to always, you know -- we engage in
16 conversations around mandate control.
17 It’s interesting. That’s also why I’m
18 reluctant to support a policy that says you have to
19 do a dependent audit because it’s a mandate. And
20 that’s -- you know, kind of falls in line with, you
21 know, before we engage -
22 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: -- the companies -
23 excuse me -- that offer those audit actually have
24 provisions that they will either find enough of the
25 losses to cover their billing or you don’t pay for 226
1 the extra. So -
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: If you're large enough.
3 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Yeah.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I think, some of
5 the -- I didn't come prepared to share some of the
6 specifics mandates, but I can share with you what
7 we have been doing, you know, as part of -- you
8 know, as part of our regular check-ins with the
9 education community. We meet regularly with both
10 superintendents and principals and organizations.
11 And whenever there's a way for us to lift a process
12 or procedure to help support them through a process
13 or procedure, we do so.
14 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: I'm delighted that
15 you're looking at it. But my question was, are
16 there -- which ones, off the top of your head -- do
17 you have an example of one that you believe is
18 detrimental?
19 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: I mean, I could
20 give a process example. One of the things that we
21 put into place is some electronic monitoring for
22 districts for their -- for their assessment
23 controls. So, it makes it more time — less time
24 on the districts then to fulfill that task. And
25 those are the types of things that our department 227
1 routinely is taking a look at in terms of our
2 processes and not overburdening districts.
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: Or in higher education,
4 we put an online certificate process in place, so
5 you can order your certificate online, which then
6 saves school districts time and money when looking
7 to certifying someone -- certify to teach in that
8 area. So, we try to engage in some of those
9
10 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you very
11 much.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
13 Keller.
14 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you,
15 Mr. Chairman.
16 I just want to make sure that I'm clear on
17 my ask from previously, and then I'll move on.
18 On the chart on page eight of the
19 governor's Budget in Brief, for the years listed on
20 this chart, which is '08-'09 through '17-'18, these
21 bar graphs, I would assume, since we have numbers
22 here, we probably have the inputs that were -- for
23 this chart, so if we can get an accounting of
24 everything that's included in those? I think it
25 would be beneficial to everybody, for transparency, 228
1 to see everything that we’re including in those
2 items.
3 I’d like to move on to page nine of the
4 same document. You mention about the improvement
5 efforts for the school districts, and it’s the ESSA
6 and the governor’s vision for improvement. And it
7 mentions the funds will be used to conduct
8 diagnostic audits and determine specific district
9 and school needs, develop improvement plans and
10 prepare for implementation of those plans in the
11 following school year. The districts will have
12 three years to demonstrate improved performance,
13 and so on.
14 As far as, you know, the diagnostic
15 audits, who’s going to perform those? Or have you
16 not worked that out yet.
17 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, we don’t have -
18 so, we don’t have the specific, you know,
19 individual firms or institutions that will support
20 those audits, but there are -- there are
21 institutions of higher ed. There are third-party
22 individuals that come in and provide good,
23 deep-dive diagnostics for school districts.
24 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Have we considered
25 having our best performing school districts help 229
1 with those audits?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Well, an audit’s -- an
3 audit is very different than identifying best
4 practices in education. So, for example, you know,
5 part of an audit may be to provide, you know,
6 on-the-site review and engage with individual -
7 so, I’ll give you one of the findings of an audit,
8 for example. You know, one of the finds of one of
9 the audits we provided was that the curriculum that
10 the school district was providing wasn’t a
11 standard-aligned curriculum. So, in order to do
12 that, you have to take a look at, you know, the
13 school district’s curriculum in K, you know,
14 through 12 and provide a crosswalk to every aspect
15 of the PA core standard and then provide that
16 alignment.
17 So, there are individuals that can do
18 that, but the time intensity of the process, you
19 know, would probably discount the number of, you
20 know, school districts or individuals within those
21 school districts that do it themselves.
22 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Okay. But I’m not
23 saying within the school districts. I’m saying
24 that, you know, the best way to learn -- the best
25 way to learn something is to go to an area that’s 230
1 doing it well and take their practices. I mean,
2 have we -- do we do that in education?
3 I know businesses do it a lot of times.
4 If somebody’s competitor is doing something very
5 well, they tend to take a look at it. Even within
6 an organization that has multiple factories or
7 multiple locations, you know, if one location is
8 doing something very well, you get on it right
9 away. And I don’t if we’ve considered, you know,
10 in education, employing some of those principles
11 that would -- that would get the ball moving more
12 quickly, because somebody that’s running a well-run
13 district with good success in areas might be able
14 to help the other district more quickly than
15 somebody that’s not familiar with those outcomes.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, that is part of the
17 process. As we identify — and that’s why the
18 diagnostic is so important. It allows you to
19 identify deficiencies and strengths, and then you
20 can identify a partner for that school or a leader
21 for that school to help focus on those specific
22 areas.
23 You know, we spend a lot of time with
24 business and industry partners, and they’ll tell
25 you, I just can’t pick up one plant, you know, in 231
1 western PA and move it, you know, to northeastern
2 PA and it’s going to be successful, because there
3 are many other factors that go in play, everything
4 from leadership, you know, to input.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: When you’re
6 dealing with people, and you’re dealing with kids,
7 it’s not all the same. And I recognize that. But
8 there are some basic principles that work across
9 all the -- all the schools, you know, employing
10 certain practices. We know those best practices.
11 The other thing I was looking at was the
12 accountability measures or seeing how schools
13 improve. And I know you mentioned that several
14 times.
15 In looking at what we do, legislatively,
16 what might we be able to change that would help
17 with accountability in our school districts?
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: So, I know we’re having
19 a number of conversations around, you know, how,
20 legislatively, we can support some of our current,
21 you know, systems of accountability.
22 One of the big ones that we’re really
23 aggressively moving forward with this year are the
24 graduation requirements. You know, we currently
25 have a system that’s aligned to only the Keystone 232
1 Exams, moving forward, and we see an opportunity to
2 align industry standards and college readiness
3 standards to those.
4 So, I think that’s one -- not one of the
5 areas that we can engage in -- that’s one of the
6 areas, you know, that I’m hoping this year we do
7 engage in, because that will change behavior in
8 schools as well. They’ll stop focusing solely on
9 the standardized test and look more at success
10 factors for students across the board.
11 So, I think that’s a low-hanging fruit for
12 us, because we’ve already done our work, you know,
13 as expected of the assembly and have done our due
14 diligence. So, I think that’s a -- you know, never
15 easy, but a quicker one -- you know, quicker
16 conversation we can engage in. And I think,
17 longitudinally, we can definitely take a look at,
18 you know, how we utilize our systems of
19 accountability, you know, to engage in school
20 improvement.
21 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Because I think we
22 all want the same thing. We want students that
23 graduate that are ready. We want them to have the
24 best administration, the best teachers, and the
25 best opportunities to succeed. 233
1 Thank you.
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
4 Pyle.
5 REPRESENTATIVE PYLE: Hi, Mr. Secretary.
6 As you know, we are on a five-minute
7 thing, and I'm looking at a light here. So, I'm
8 going to go quick.
9 I'm going to pose some questions. I know
10 you'll require time to answer.
11 One of those has actually been, has
12 PDE ever done a study on the growth of IEPs over
13 the last ten years as a proportion of the student
14 population? That's my first question.
15 I tend to see special education spending
16 going up. And I know there are some rather unique
17 individual accommodations for some students. I
18 also am theorizing that the number of IEPs, since
19 we opened up how easy it is to get one, has
20 expanded exponentially, giving special ed
21 protection and accommodation to that individual
22 student.
23 Like my friend, Representative Kampf, we
24 are looking for ways to save a buck here.
25 Is it fair to correlate educational 234
1 spending with student achievement? And if so, over
2 the past twelve years, how have our students’ test
3 scores fared?
4 I know for each of those twelve,
5 education, as a general expenditure, has doubled
6 the rate of inflation. So, I’m imagining we’re
7 probably looking at a number around 30 to 40
8 percent increase in education funding. And I just
9 wanted to know, since we keep using the word
10 "investment, investment, investment, investment,”
11 what is the ROI on our increased spending? That’s
12 my second question.
13 Third one, and this one I don’t know
14 that -- I don’t know how we would do it, but it’s a
15 valid question. Out of the five hundred school
16 districts in the state, how many of the new hires
17 over the last few years have been on educational
18 personnel administrative staff?
19 Which leads to my next question -
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Can you clarify that
21 question? I’m sorry.
22 REPRESENTATIVE PYLE: Yes. Whenever we
23 have to bring in a speech pathologist, whenever we
24 have to bring in an audiologist, whenever we have
25 to bring in -- how many of these people are 235
1 noneducational personnel? We're bringing in more
2 of a medical application than an educational.
3 Because we know those are more expensive than
4 paying teachers.
5 I'm real curious about this diagnostic
6 audit. What are we measuring? Are we looking at
7 student test scores? Are we looking at
8 ADA compliance? Are we looking at they have the
9 best paperwork? What exactly are we talking about?
10 And, finally, one last one, and this is
11 for the good of the order. I'm fortunate, or
12 unfortunate, however you want to look at it, at
13 being in a school district that has free or reduced
14 lunches. We have a situation that makes no sense,
15 in that you're going to go -- in to an area with a
16 lesser income basis and give their kids food, which
17 we all know is needed to be able to learn, but my
18 question is, when our kids go through the line,
19 they are told they have to take the entire lunch,
20 and then set off the parts they don't want on a
21 table at the end of the lunch line.
22 I have a little girl whose grandparents
23 are dairy farmers, and she packs her lunch every
24 day, and all she wanted to do was get a carton of
25 milk, fifty, sixty cents. She was told, unless she 236
1 took the entire free lunch, she could not have that
2 carton of milk, which just strikes me as amazingly
3 and grossly wasteful. And that’s something, I
4 think, maybe you could take a look at. I’m not
5 sure there’s an answer to that. And I’m sure
6 there’s a lot of federal inference.
7 But what are we really teaching the kids?
8 And I say that from the heart, having fourteen
9 years in a public classroom. We teach them to be
10 efficient; don’t be wasteful. And here we are
11 institutionalizing it. If a kid doesn’t want the
12 damn grilled cheese sandwich and just wants a
13 carton of milk, don’t make them take the grilled
14 cheese sandwich. We could save a lot of money.
15 I appreciate your indulgence. Thank you.
16 And I’ll look forward to getting some answers to
17 those questions.
18 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
19 REPRESENTATIVE PYLE: Thank you, Chairman.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: I’m just going
21 to take a moment to recognize Representative Milne,
22 for the purpose of an introduction.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MILNE: Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 As we continue to work our way through 237
1 education today and speak of education success
2 stories, I just want to recognize two student from
3 PASSHE, Pennsylvania State System of Higher
4 Education, who are in the room today. One of them
5 is Mike Walter. I will ask Mike to stand a moment.
6 Mike is a student of mine at West Chester
7 University. And with him is Brittany Feichtel, who
8 is a student at Millersville University. And both
9 of them are here as semester residence with the
10 Harrisburg internship semester program.
11 And they have gone right to the top.
12 Mike’ interning in the office of House Speaker Mike
13 Turzai, and Brittany is with the office of Majority
14 Leader Dave Reed.
15 And we’re delighted to know they’re having
16 a tremendous experience with our appropriations
17 process and learning quite a bit, they tell me.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Very good.
20 They haven’t gotten bored yet, apparently.
21 Representative Dunbar.
22 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you,
23 Mr. Chairman.
24 And thank you, Secretary.
25 Again, let’s go through the budget. 238
1 I’m right up here, front and center.
2 You’ve been staring at my name all this time.
3 SECRETARY RIVERA: I know. I know.
4 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Quick side things,
5 as long as we’re talking about staring at names,
6 I’ve got to tell you, Mr. Stem, you are the most
7 appropriately named man to serve on education that
8 I think -
9 DEPUTY SECRETARY STEM: So I’ve been told.
10 Thank you.
11 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Sorry. Anyways -
12 his name is Stem, S-t-e-m. I can’t get over that.
13 As we go through the appropriation -- can
14 I have my time back? I don’t need it, really.
15 As we go through the appropriations and
16 look at all that stuff that’s in the budget, I see
17 a proposed increase of twenty-five million for
18 special ed, a proposed increase for a hundred
19 million for basic ed, a proposed increase for
20 sixty-five for preK, ten million for headstart, and
21 two hundred forty million for pensions, and then we
22 have a fifty-million-dollar decrease for people
23 transportation.
24 Reminds me of my childhood, sitting there
25 watching Sesame Street, one of these things is not 239
1 like the other one. One of these things does not
2 belong. And it makes you wonder, like, what the
3 heck? Why that?
4 And I know Representative Greiner had gone
5 through that a little bit. But I just had a couple
6 quick questions.
7 First off, the appropriation for people
8 transportation is not a total dollar-for-dollar
9 reimbursement. It’s a partial reimbursement. Is
10 that correct?
11 SECRETARY RIVERA: Correct.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: So, it being a
13 partial reimbursement, we’re not -- we’re not
14 actually -- you know, the savings that we may see
15 as we go through this process, this new -- this
16 starting point, as you said, on this process, we
17 can’t attribute to one direct thing. So, it’s not
18 like every school’s going to save a certain amount
19 and their appropriation would be adjusted. It
20 would be a percentage.
21 And the concern is that, why the heck
22 didn’t you just net the two, the one hundred BEF
23 increase and the fifty million people
24 transportation, just have a fifty-million-dollar
25 increase on BEF, until you have this starting point 240
1 established and an actual, you know, plan in place?
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: The -
3 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: And you understand
4 the concerns, do you? That how BEF is allocated
5 out is a funding formula, where some school
6 districts get more than others.
7 SECRETARY RIVERA: Um-hum. So, we think
8 it's a good -- it's a legitimate question.
9 As we look specifically at the -- you
10 know, the current formula by which we drive
11 transportation funding, we took a number of factors
12 into account. So, you know, of course, all the
13 factors that I shared — I don't want to take up
14 too much more time, you know, sharing them again -
15 so we felt that if we could incentivize some better
16 practice in terms of, for example, bidding. You
17 know, 80 percent of people transportation is bid
18 out to the vendor. You know, there's now an
19 incentive that we can come up with a good system
20 that incentivizes school districts to push those
21 savings on through the bid, they could realize no
22 reduction in terms of, you know, the revenue they
23 receive locally.
24 So, you know, we're really looking at an
25 old, out-dated formula, and trying to find the way 241
1 to incentivize better practice as it relates to
2 fuel efficiency and all the other things I shared.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: I would hope all
4 the school districts would be incentivized to find
5 savings any way they can without a carrot hanging
6 in front of them.
7 It’s just -- it’s a concern, especially in
8 my districts, where, you know, they’re going to
9 see, you know, the BEF formula doesn’t produce as
10 much as what the people transportation will be.
11 So, it is a concern.
12 SECRETARY RIVERA: Understood.
13 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: And I still don’t
14 understand why they just weren’t netted until it
15 was finalized.
16 SECRETARY RIVERA: You know, I feel like I
17 can only share that, as I have been sharing, and
18 definitely not a -- you know, an excuse of an
19 answer, but we understand that, you know, during
20 this difficult budget, you know, cycle, I’ve
21 advocated, you know, and the governor continued to
22 advocate for additional funding for education
23 across the board, and this was one of the areas, as
24 many of my, you know, partner agencies are finding
25 efficiencies within their department, this is one 242
1 of the areas that was identified to try to find
2 some savings.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DUNBAR: Thank you.
4 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
6 Donatucci.
7 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 Hello, again.
10 Regarding ESSA, will you please discuss
11 how your department has been working to develop
12 Pennsylvania's state plan? And also, what are you
13 hearing from the many stakeholders engaged in the
14 process?
15 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
16 So, our team has done an amazing job with
17 engaging, you know, stakeholders across the
18 Commonwealth on our ESSA plan. You know, I shared
19 a little earlier, but I think there's a really
20 great opportunity to share, when we looked
21 specifically at four areas -- area of educator
22 preparation, educator effectiveness, assessment,
23 and accountability -- we start off with a full
24 group that came together, you know, a couple
25 hundred individuals, and then broke out into work 243
1 groups that was representative of all, you know,
2 different type of stakeholders, everything from
3 classroom educators, higher ed, administration, and
4 educational advocates.
5 After the recommendations were made by
6 those four work groups, we posted those
7 recommendations online. And so, we didn’t say
8 these were PDE recommendations, we just staffed the
9 process. We wanted this to be organic and a
10 movement by, you know, the greater education
11 community.
12 We then took those recommendations and
13 scheduled sessions across the Commonwealth. And
14 upwards of a thousand individuals participated in
15 those sessions and provided feedback. And
16 additional feedback was provided online, you know,
17 through review of that process. And we actually
18 continued to get, you know, feedback on a regular
19 basis.
20 Based on the feedback given by educational
21 stakeholders, you know, we’re going to pull
22 together a plan that we will present to the general
23 assembly and look to move forward, you know, with
24 our ESSA plan. You know, probably I can share with
25 you, like, some great examples shared. I mean, the 244
1 one I shared earlier is a big one, you know, trying
2 to find ways, you know, to decrease assessment by
3 25 percent, because educators are like, so, here’s
4 data that we need and we don’t need. You know,
5 parents and advocates said, here’s what I want to
6 know, what I don’t want to know, you know. In the
7 system of higher ed, re-envisioning how we prepare
8 teachers and spending more time actually preparing
9 in the classroom.
10 When we looked at school improvement, you
11 know, they shared, you know, using one measure, and
12 then there’s like five systems of turnaround that
13 you have to engage in. None of those fit me. And
14 how do we create a process that fits the local
15 community? Because we know that we can’t decouple
16 the needs of community, the needs of the school,
17 the geographic location from school improvement.
18 And the current system does that.
19 We say, we don’t care if you’re rural,
20 urban, or suburban, you’re going to do the same
21 thing. And, you know, here, you know, we have
22 schools that are saying, all right, you want me to
23 engage in this turnaround effort, but my kids don’t
24 eat or my kids need health care, my kids need -
25 and by engaging in this process, we can better 245
1 define and look at, you know, the needs of the
2 individual students.
3 And then, you know, the last, which will
4 be much more intensive, you know, a discussion will
5 be educator effectiveness. So, we started, you
6 know, with the education chairmen, to talk -- to
7 map out the long-term discussions we need to have
8 around -- around educator effectiveness, but we’ve
9 started to engage accordingly.
10 So, you know, the field has been amazing,
11 you know, through this process. And, you know,
12 when you hear a thousand-plus people, you know,
13 kind of share with you these are our two to three
14 priorities in each one of these area, you know, you
15 get a really good sampling of what you need to do,
16 moving forward.
17 REPRESENTATIVE DONATUCCI: Thank you. And
18 I look forward to working with you.
19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
20 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: For one
21 question, Marguerite Quinn.
22 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Taking you back to
23 higher education, okay?
24 We talked earlier, there’s mention of the
25 large amount of school debt that our kids come out 246
1 of school with. What I have found is that there
2 are times when a student has to stay an extra
3 semester because they cannot get into a class. So,
4 my question is going to have a couple -- don’t
5 answer it, because I need only one question mark at
6 the end.
7 Is the cap -- is there a cap on the amount
8 of -- or, apparently, there’s a cap on the amount
9 of students in a class. Is that a part of the
10 collective bargaining agreement, does it change per
11 discipline, and would you please look into this?
12 Because I have one constituent who
13 couldn’t -- really worked towards a double major
14 and had to take it as a major and a minor because
15 it would have meant another semester for one lousy
16 class that the professor said, huh-uh, I’m at
17 capacity. When the kid said, I’d look there and
18 I’d watch empty seats.
19 Thank you. There’s a question mark at the
20 end of that. Just one.
21 SECRETARY RIVERA: I -- I don’t know the
22 answer to your question. But I will definitely dig
23 deeply on that issue and we’ll forward it
24 accordingly.
25 REPRESENTATIVE QUINN: Thank you very 247
1 much.
2 SECRETARY RIVERA: Absolutely.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Representative
4 Markosek.
5 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: Thank you.
6 Thank you, Chairman.
7 First of all, let me just say that I saw
8 one of my -- we always introduce guests, and I saw
9 one of my colleagues here, Representative Ed
10 Neilson, and I looked over there and he left the
11 room. But I want all the members to tell him when
12 you see him that I did recognize him, please.
13 I also -- you know, I'm one of these
14 people that, in spite of my current job, sometimes
15 all these numbers really start to become a blur.
16 And seeing things put very nicely in a graph is the
17 way I like to see things.
18 And I would -- I know we've talked a lot
19 about some graphs and about the various funding for
20 education over the years and how much is pension
21 and how much is basic ed, et cetera, et cetera.
22 I would like to just alert everyone to the
23 education primer that our committee website puts
24 out, How Does Total PreK-to-12 Education Funding
25 Today Compare to Previous Years, and it's dated 248
1 February 2017. You can -- folks, if they go on
2 www.hacd -- House Appropriations Committee Democrat
3 -- .net, they can pull this very, very handy primer
4 up that has all kinds of education jobs, funds,
5 ARRA, pension, pension payments towards the
6 unfunded liability, comparison lines with other
7 years. It’s all right there.
8 So, I would say to folks, hacd.net, the
9 education primer, dated February 2017. And I want
10 to give my staff a lot of credit for putting that
11 together and providing that on our website.
12 So, I would suggest that all of the
13 members of the committee and anybody watching or
14 anybody here that’s interested, take a look at that
15 very simple map of education funding over the last
16 ten or fifteen years. And I think it’s all there.
17 So, with that, I want to thank all of you,
18 did a great job, and appreciate it a lot. And
19 we’ll see you during budget time. Thank.
20 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you, sir.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We probably
22 have a similar -- we do have a similar one on ours.
23 Might be a little more different than Chairman
24 Markosek’s formula, but ours is, I’m going to say,
25 more accurate. Just kidding. 249
1 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MARKOSEK: You went
2 after the staff on that one.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Sorry about
4 that.
5 But, seriously, I wanted to cover a couple
6 topics. I don't know that I really have any
7 questions here.
8 Earlier we talked about lunches that was
9 brought up here today. That is one of the biggest
10 complaints I get from anybody who's visiting a
11 school, from workers, is the amount of
12 food that is thrown away every day in a cafeteria.
13 I think it's a policy we really have to look at, in
14 that it's not fair. You know, I've worked a day in
15 a school elementary cafeteria. I know what I've
16 seen. But I really do think we need to change it.
17 I mean, it's great to encourage kids to eat
18 nutritious, but when they're throwing it away,
19 that's not making kids eat nutrition.
20 We have to be more serious about how we
21 handle it. We can encourage kids. I think we
22 should educate kids about healthy eating. Those
23 kind of things are important. But to force
24 children or to even just throw food away is so
25 wasteful when we know we have children out there 250
1 who are going hungry. So, we have to find a better
2 way of -- better policy of adjusting some of that.
3 And some of that may be federal mandates. But if
4 that’s true, then we need to deal with federal
5 government in making sure that they understand what
6 they’re doing. And I’m sure, if it’s happening in
7 Pennsylvania, we’re not the only state. So, we
8 need to deal with that issue.
9 Mr. Secretary, the other thing comes down
10 to, and you and I have had a number of discussions,
11 I’ve met with a number of superintendents over the
12 last two years, prior to this, as being chairman of
13 the Appropriations Committee, I was Education
14 chairman. One of the things I really had
15 discovered as Education chairman, which has really
16 opened my eyes, has been most of our schools that
17 are in recovery are really because of mismanagement
18 by school districts, mostly the school boards.
19 When you look at the Reading School
20 District, for instance, the LIU came in and
21 balanced their budget, put them back in the black.
22 That demonstrated it’s not just a lack of dollars.
23 Because the new superintendent at Reading is doing,
24 I believe, a great job in moving the Reading School
25 District forward. So, it’s not about dollars in 251
1 that Reading School District. It’s about how you
2 manage the dollars you have.
3 York city is another perfect example of
4 mismanagement of dollars. York city bought cases
5 upon cases of stop watches, Hersheypark tickets,
6 that sat in the closet and expired and were never
7 used to give to the kids. And the stop watches
8 were somewhere in the neighborhood of total of -
9 all the mismanagement of York High was eight
10 hundred thousand dollars. Eight hundred thousand
11 dollars in one school district mismanaged. And the
12 federal government actually came in and was part of
13 that audit.
14 So, what I see is that it isn’t about
15 dollars, as I said earlier in my opening statement.
16 It’s really about holding school boards accountable
17 for what they’re doing for our students.
18 You know, I hear a lot of finger pointing
19 at teachers. I hear finger pointing at parents.
20 And maybe they’re partly responsible sometimes.
21 But I think it’s time for us to look in the mirror
22 and look at the school boards and how they’re
23 running their school districts.
24 Nobody holds anybody accountable, other
25 than teachers and parents, who we keep yelling at 252
1 because they send their children, they don’t have
2 their kid do homework or whatever. And what I
3 always said is, if I owned a business, if my
4 business failed, it was Stan Saylor’s fault, not my
5 employees.
6 When are we going to get to the point that
7 we hold superintendents and school boards
8 accountable for their failure of their school
9 district, instead of pointing fingers at everybody
10 else?
11 So, I think it’s time for us to start
12 looking at performance management and budget
13 management in the school districts and holding
14 school districts accountable. Instead of saying,
15 oh, you know what, Chester Upland, we’re going to
16 give you twelve million dollars a year more every
17 year, even though you still are failing to meet the
18 worst charter schools in the state’s record of
19 testing. Money in Chester Upland has not helped
20 Chester Upland students. It’s only sentenced them
21 to a very bad future.
22 So, at some point, we, in Harrisburg, have
23 got to get the nerve to start holding school boards
24 accountable for mismanagement, and superintendents,
25 whether that means pulling the license or 253
1 certificate to be a superintendent or whether it
2 means that we find a way to remove bad school board
3 directors who continue to put our students at a
4 disadvantage.
5 I will continue — I’ll get off that
6 soapbox for a moment. The other thing is, we have
7 to face a reality as well. And I don’t like it,
8 because I’m a product of our state system and our
9 universities. And I’m very proud to have gone to
10 IUP. But the fact is what it is. This contract
11 with this union and college professors has put us
12 in a position, in my personal opinion, that we’re
13 going to have to close universities. Nobody likes
14 it because everybody who has a university in that
15 their system or anybody who graduated from one of
16 those fourteen universities doesn’t want to see
17 their university closed.
18 But when you’re paying professors and
19 you’re giving college professors free education for
20 their children -- something that no other workers
21 in Pennsylvania get; teachers don’t get free
22 education for their children -- so, we’re giving
23 college professors free education. You know, I -
24 you know, if I was a science teacher at one of our
25 state universities, I’d understand I need more time 254
1 to do research to promote what I'm doing. I
2 haven't figured out what English teacher does in
3 research that they need to only work sixteen hours
4 a week for a hundred-and-some-thousand-dollar
5 salary.
6 We have to face it. Reality is setting in
7 in this state. We have to decide where our real
8 priorities are. And when we know — and talking
9 with Chairwoman Shapiro and also Chancellor Brogan,
10 the state system is not meeting the job of
11 employers in Pennsylvania, they're just not,
12 graduating many students who can't even find a job
13 in the field that they're graduating in.
14 Mr. Secretary, you and I -- I have told
15 you this before, so this isn't news to you -- I
16 thought you did an outstanding job as
17 superintendent of Lancaster City School District.
18 I don't pay many compliments sometimes. But
19 Lancaster School District's a perfect example of
20 how management makes a difference. You dealt with,
21 the current superintendent of Lancaster City School
22 District has dealt with probably a higher
23 percentage of Latino population than any other
24 school district in the state. I might be slightly
25 off there, but it's one of the highest, if not the 255
1 highest. And your kids coming out of Lancaster
2 city are doing an outstanding job.
3 Yet, we have other school districts who
4 face less problems than Lancaster faces who aren't
5 doing such a great job. Chester Upland, who's one
6 of the highest funded state-funded school districts
7 in the state and one of the worst.
8 So, at some point in time, we have got to
9 find the courage to quit saying we're going to give
10 more money to mismanaged school districts and say,
11 you know what, it's time to make a change. And
12 those changes are things that I don't think any of
13 us want to see done, but we have to do it. The
14 tough choice is there.
15 So, I'd say thank you for the job you've
16 been trying to do as Education secretary, but I do
17 think we have to knuckle down here in the general
18 assembly and reward performances and not reward
19 failure. And we have far too many failures.
20 I still stay our public education system
21 and our universities in the state are the finest of
22 any state in this country. But we still have
23 problems. But we can't keep passing that problem
24 on year to year and not making the tough decisions,
25 whether it's a public school or it's a higher 256
1 education institution, to not make those
2 corrections. Because we just can’t continue
3 throwing money down a hole and not getting results.
4 Our students, our taxpayers deserve better.
5 So, thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your
6 coming today and your patience, and all the deputy
7 secretaries as well.
8 SECRETARY RIVERA: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 And if I could just acknowledge staff, who
11 did an amazing job preparing me and us and the
12 documents shared. And they work tirelessly every
13 day to support the children of the Commonwealth.
14 So, thank you to all for all you do each
15 and every day for our kids. Thank you.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you.
17 With that, we will reconvene tomorrow
18 morning at 10 o ’clock for the Department of Human
19 Services.
20 (Whereupon, the hearing concluded at
21 3:40 p.m.)
22
23 ~k k k k k
24
25 257
1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE
2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing is a true and
3 accurate transcript, to the best of my ability,
4 produced from audio on the said proceedings.
5
6
7 BRENDA J. PARDUN, RPR 8 Court Reporter Notary Public 9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25