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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 1 1 COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 2 3 APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE BUDGET HEARING 4 PENNSYLVANIA STATE SYSTEM OF HIGHER EDUCATION 5 6 STATE CAPITOL HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA 7 ROOM 140, MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM 8 TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2019 9 1:00 P.M. 10 11 12 13 BEFORE: 14 HONORABLE STANLEY SAYLOR, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE MATT BRADFORD, MINORITY CHAIRMAN 15 HONORABLE ROSEMARY BROWN HONORABLE SHERYL DELOZIER 16 HONORABLE GEORGE DUNBAR HONORABLE JONATHAN FRITZ 17 HONORABLE MATT GABLER HONORABLE KEITH GREINER 18 HONORABLE MARCIA HAHN HONORABLE LEE JAMES 19 HONORABLE FRED KELLER HONORABLE JOHN LAWRENCE 20 HONORABLE JASON ORTITAY HONORABLE CLINT OWLETT 21 HONORABLE CHRIS QUINN HONORABLE GREG ROTHMAN 22 HONORABLE JAMES STRUZZI HONORABLE JESSE TOPPER 23 HONORABLE RYAN WARNER HONORABLE MARTINA WHITE 24 Pennsylvania House of Representatives 25 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 2 1 HONORABLE DONNA BULLOCK HONORABLE MORGAN CEPHAS 2 HONORABLE MARIA DONATUCCI HONORABLE AUSTIN DAVIS 3 HONORABLE ELIZABETH FIEDLER HONORABLE MARTY FLYNN 4 HONORABLE EDWARD GAINEY HONORABLE PATTY KIM 5 HONORABLE STEPHEN KINSEY HONORABLE LEANNE KRUEGER 6 HONORABLE STEPHEN MCCARTER HONORABLE BENJAMIN SANCHEZ 7 HONORABLE PETER SCHWEYER 8 NON-COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: 9 HONORABLE CURT SONNEY HONORABLE TOM MURT 10 HONORABLE MARK LONGIETTI 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: 2 DAVID DONLEY REPUBLICAN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 3 RITCHIE LAFAVER REPUBLICAN DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 4 MIRIAM FOX DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR 5 TARA TREES DEMOCRATIC CHIEF COUNSEL 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 I N D E X 2 TESTIFIERS 3 * * * 4 NAME PAGE 5 CHANCELLOR DANIEL GREENSTEIN, PH.D. ............................................. 7 6 7 8 9 (NO SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 * * * 3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: We'll call 4 the Appropriations Committee to order. Our 5 first hearing this morning, I should say 6 afternoon, of course, is our Chancellor, Daniel 7 Greenstein, who's a Doctor of Education. I 8 assume that's right. 9 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: History. 10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: History. 11 Okay. You know, I'm learning there's different 12 degrees of Doctors in Education -- 13 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Actually, it's 14 worse. It's Social Studies. 15 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Actually, 16 Chancellor, you just went up in my thoughts, 17 you know. I love history. So if I was going to 18 get a degree in that, it would be a degree in 19 that one, in that area; so you just went up 20 higher in my esteem. 21 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Thank you. 22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: The Chairman 23 agrees with me. Chairman Bradford agrees. 24 Chancellor, would you rise and raise 25 your right hand? 6 1 DANIEL GREENSTEIN, PH.D., was duly sworn 2 to give testimony as follows: 3 4 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: Thank you. 5 We skipped the testimony by our individuals, so 6 we'll go directly to questions. Our first 7 question today, unless the -- Chairman Bradford, 8 do you have any? 9 MINORITY CHAIRMAN BRADFORD: I'm good. 10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SAYLOR: -- is from 11 Representative Topper. 12 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Good morning, or 13 I guess we're afternoon now, since we're 14 starting after lunch. Dr. Greenstein, I 15 appreciate you being here today. I actually did 16 read this cover to cover. 17 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Wow. 18 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: So in case you 19 wondered if anybody did, somebody did anyway. 20 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Thank you. 21 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: And I do have a 22 couple questions. Specifically, when we talk 23 about this sharing system that you mentioned in 24 your State of the -- the State Address or the 25 State of the System Address, could you give me 7 1 specifics? I've read, kind of, the outline of 2 what you're looking to do. 3 But when you talk about aligning 4 budgets, are we talking specifically about 5 combining administrative costs? What are we 6 looking at? Are we talking about students that 7 can transfer between universities with credit? 8 If you could give me just a couple specifics 9 about what that might look like. 10 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Yeah. So let me 11 take it on the cost and revenue side. So on the 12 cost side, you're looking at sharing, you know, 13 back-office function, could be. We already do 14 payroll; but imagine extending that into, you 15 know, data centers, financial-aid packaging. 16 There's just a whole range. 17 And I'm not, sort of, necessarily saying 18 that we'll do those things. But, you know, 19 we'll be looking at sharing out those kinds of 20 back-office functions; and it's purely a matter 21 of cost saving. You know, we don't need to have 22 14 instantiations of every business service that 23 a university needs to operate. You can drive 24 your costs down in that way. 25 On the revenue side, there are 8 1 opportunities for doing shared programming. So 2 a couple of examples: We reckon there are about 3 a million-plus adults in Pennsylvania who have 4 some college but no degree, and they need to 5 continue to come back to higher education in 6 order to reskill and upskill and to improve 7 their opportunities in the labor market. 8 There are opportunities for us to work 9 together as a system to create a program that 10 individual campuses can deliver online to those 11 adults or on ground to those adults, but it 12 becomes a collaborative effort. We're actually 13 sharing in the academic programming. There's a 14 variety of options like that, as well. 15 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: And you 16 mentioned that you've -- one of the things that 17 you're taking a strong look at is making sure 18 the programs that you have, the degrees that are 19 offered, are actually fitting the workforce that 20 we need here in Pennsylvania. 21 I think at one point I read that you've 22 begun 32 additional academic programs, but that 23 you've cut something like 300. 24 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Correct. 25 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Could you give 9 1 me some examples, not all 300, but a few of 2 those that you feel, you know, can go and then 3 maybe some of the ones that will help as we move 4 forward? 5 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Right. So the 6 programs that are listed there, there's 32 7 programs there that pretty much all 8 master's-level programs, graduate-level 9 programs; and they will be in areas of STEM, 10 business, etc., specific areas in particular. 11 Actually, just today, we had a 12 conversation about a doctorate in social work. 13 We had a conversation about physician 14 assistantships. These are high-need areas in 15 various different regions, so those are the kind 16 of new programs. 17 On the programs that have been retired, 18 you know, we've seen a decline, for example, in 19 education, demand for education; although, we 20 expect that to be an uptick coming forward, so 21 you're seeing some contraction there; and you're 22 seeing contraction in other areas, which are 23 just not high enrollment. 24 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: What other areas 25 might -- 10 1 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: I'm going to 2 have to pass and get back to you, because that 3 list is not in my head. 4 REPRESENTATIVE TOPPER: Okay. All 5 right. Well, I guess what I'm trying to get to 6 is, do you believe that we will have the ability 7 to actually measure, when we're talking about 8 students graduating and, A, whether staying in 9 Pennsylvania; B, and if not, are able to 10 graduate, get jobs in their field at a certain 11 amount of money, you know, do you feel we can 12 set markers that we can hit when evaluating 13 whether we're doing the job or not, whether 14 we're actually getting the bang for our buck 15 when it comes to students graduating, getting 16 jobs in their field, and jobs, quite frankly, 17 that pay? 18 Because if you're getting a doctorate in 19 social work or something and then you're making 20 30,000 in that field, that's not really helping 21 in terms of that student's financial future. 22 CHANCELLOR GREENSTEIN: Yeah. So the 23 good news is, we can already do those 24 measurements, right? We have been doing that 25 for some years, and we're getting better. I 11 1 mean, one of the reasons, frankly, that I chose 2 to come to Pennsylvania to the State System was 3 because it actually has incredible data 4 resources, which enable us not to fly blind in a 5 very difficult and challenging higher-education 6 marketplace. 7 Our workforce and education alignment 8 data and our wage data are actually really good. 9 We do not yet have goals. That is one of the 10 things you'll begin to see emerging in the 11 course of this redesign, is that we will be 12 developing specific goals for student success, a 13 variety of indicators that get at the extent to 14 which our students are achieving the kind of 15 outcomes that we want to see them achieving, and 16 university success which really gets to the 17 financial health of our universities in our 18 system.
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