Da´Il E´Ireann

Vol. 643 Tuesday, No. 3 11 December 2007 DIÓSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Tuesday, 11 December 2007. Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 641 Minister for Education and Science Priority Questions …………………………… 656 Other Questions …………………………… 668 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 677 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 677 Requests to move Adjournment of Daíl under Standing Order 32 ……………… 686 Order of Business ……………………………… 687 Appointment of Members to Committee: Motion …………………… 693 Social Welfare Bill 2007: Order for Second Stage …………………………… 694 Second Stage ……………………………… 694 Private Members’ Business Road Safety: Motion …………………………… 727 Financial Resolutions 2007: Financial Resolution No. 5: General (resumed) …………………… 751 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 785 Adjournment Debate Patient Transport Service …………………………… 785 Hospital Services ……………………………… 787 Institutes of Technology …………………………… 790 Schools Building Projects …………………………… 793 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 797 641 642 DA´ IL E´ IREANN governmental Conference on the Reform Treaty at the June European Council. We can now look ———— forward to the signature of the treaty in Lisbon on 13 December. As I have said previously, while De´ Maírt, 11 Nollaig 2007. no decision has yet been taken, I expect that we Tuesday, 11 December 2007. will hold a referendum sometime next year, prob- ably in the summer. ———— Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Is it the Taoiseach’s Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar intention to hold the two referendums, the refer- 2.30 p.m. endum on children and the referendum on the EU treaty, on the same date? Are there any other ———— plans to hold constitutional referendums in 2008? I noted the comments made by the Minister for Paidir. the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- Prayer. ment, Deputy Gormley, on reform of the Seanad which I understand would require changes to the ———— Constitution. Is it intended to bring forward proposals for constitutional change in that area? We Ceisteanna — Questions. have had approximately ten reports from the All- Party Committee on the Constitution since 1997. ———— How many of the recommendations for constitutional change made by that committee have Constitutional Amendments. been progressed? Is it intended to progress any 1. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach of them in 2008? if there are changes to the plans he has for constitutional referendums during 2008; and if he will The Taoiseach: On the first question, my pref- make a statement on the matter. [29092/07] erence, although it is not a strong one, is to hold the two referendums on the one day. The reason 2. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if for this is that we all gave a commitment. At the there are any changes to the constitutional refer- beginning of the year the party leaders gave a endums he intends holding during 2008; and if he commitment to the NGOs and those associated will make a statement on the matter. [30762/07] with the children’s issue that we would hold the referendum within one year, if it was possible to 3. Deputy CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín asked the do so, but it may not be. The members of the all- Taoiseach if referendums to amend the Consti- party committee are unanimous in the view that tution will be held in 2008; and if he will make a they need until the end of April or the other side statement on the matter. [30966/07] of Easter to complete their work. A referendum Bill will then be required. We will have to see The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions whether it is possible to link the two referendums. Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together. After this week we will have a commitment to The Twenty-Eighth Amendment to the Consti- deal with the EU reform treaty by 1 January tution Bill 2007 was published in February 2007. 2009. I will get formal advice from the Attorney The June 2007 programme for Government General. It is obvious that there will have to be a included a commitment to establish an all-party referendum. We will talk to the Opposition committee to examine the proposed consti- leaders to see how the matter can be progressed. tutional amendment with a view to further deep- I think we will deal with the two issues together, ening consensus on this matter. as we have all given a commitment to the chil- In October, the Minister of State with responsi- dren’s NGO group that we would hold that refer- bility for children, Deputy Brendan Smith, endum within one year. We are also committed brought a memorandum to Government pro- to dealing with the EU reform treaty by 2009. posing the establishment of a joint committee to I have no other proposals to be dealt with in deal with the constitutional amendment on chil- the short term and, therefore, do not expect any dren. Following consultations with Opposition other referendum to be held in 2008. The Seanad parties on the terms of reference, the Joint Com- issue has been outstanding for some time. If I mittee on the Constitutional Amendment on recall correctly, a number of things can be done Children was established by resolution of both without holding a referendum. For example, we Houses of the Oireachtas in November last. The could deal with the issue of the university panels. first meeting of this committee took place on 6 A referendum was held on the issue approxi- December, when Deputy Mary O’Rourke was mately 20 years ago, but the decision was never elected chairman of the committee. implemented. A referendum has been held to The text of the EU reform treaty was agreed allow us deal with the graduate electoral panel. at the informal European Council in October in A number of other issues do not require a refer- accordance with the mandate given to the Inter- endum to be held. 643 Ceisteanna — 11 December 2007. Questions 644 [The Taoiseach.] by the Minister, including some of the changes I have extensive data for the All-Party Com- recommended by the committee chaired in the mittee on the Constitution, usually the subject of last Daíl by the former Minister, Deputy Roche, a separate question. A number of issues raised can be made without referendums. While we by the committee have either been dealt with by could make a number of reforms in that way, if referendum or legislation. There are others, on we were to change the entire system we would which, for one reason or another, different resol- definitely need a referendum, which would prob- utions were made. I would rather deal with the ably push this matter down the agenda for a con- committee as the subject of a separate question siderable number of years. The Minister, Deputy when we would have extensive reports from Gormley, said he was examining the possibility Departments and the various conclusions of the of opening up the university panel system, which committee would be dealt with across could be done in the short term. Departments. Regarding the Deputy’s first question, it is still possible that the two referendums will be held on Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Some matters arise the same day. It might mean changing the time- from the Taoiseach’s reply. While I understand scale slightly, but it is possible. I will discuss the the Taoiseach’s preference is to hold the refer- matter with the party leaders to see what can be endums on children and the EU reform treaty on done. It might not be possible to have both refer- the same day, do I take it that this is now unlikely endums in May, but it is still possible to have to happen, given the timetable the committee has them on the same day. We can discuss the matter. set for itself? I have an open mind on it—Idonotreally mind Second, is there still some doubt about whether which way we do it. Did the Deputy ask a third a referendum is required on the EU treaty? Do I question? understand from the Taoiseach’s comment that he has not yet received the formal advice of the Deputy Eamon Gilmore: I asked whether there Attorney General in respect of the EU treaty and is any doubt about the need for a referendum on that there is still some element of doubt about the EU treaty. whether there will be a referendum on it? I would like to ask the Taoiseach about Seanad The Taoiseach: There is no doubt about that. reform. He mentioned that well over 20 years have passed since we had a referendum on the Deputy Eamon Gilmore: No doubt at all. university panels. In light of the outcome of that referendum and the recent comments of the The Taoiseach: There is no doubt about it. I Minister, Deputy Gormley, about extending uni- have not got the formal advice. We could not versity panel voting rights to all third level gradu- refer the treaty to the Attorney General until we ates, is it not time to consider the idea of univer- got the final text. Having examined the prelimi- sal suffrage for the election of the Seanad? It nary draft, the Attorney General advised me that seems elitist and unnecessary in the modern age a number of aspects of it clearly necessitate a ref- to give certain voting rights exclusively to gradu- erendum. There is no doubt about it — we will ates of universities and their equivalents without require a referendum. extending those rights to the entire population. A large proportion of the population would be Deputy Enda Kenny: I would like to ask the entitled to vote in Seanad elections if the univer- Taoiseach three questions.

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