THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 04 FEBRUARY 2021

ENGLISH VERSION HANSARD NO: 201 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. (Opposition Whip) Ghanzi South Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP. Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North Hon. M. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 04 FEBRUARY, 2021

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 1-9

TABLING OF PAPER

Public Procurement And Asset Disposal Annual Report, 2019/2020...... 10

BUSINESS MOTION...... 10 Appropriation (2021/2022) Bill, 2021 (No. 2 of 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)...... 10-33

Thursday 4th February, 2021 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Thursday 4th February, 2021 covers 3.55 km of road and 900 metres of asphalt overlay on the industrial bypass. THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. Mr Speaker, in July 2019, SRR Engineers was awarded (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) to undertake design, review and supervision for both P R A Y E R S components at a contract sum of P5 885,375. The consultancy commenced in August 2019 and submitted * * * * the report in May 2020, with recommendations of additional scope for Component 1. At the moment, QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER the design and review for Component 1 is yet to be MR GREEFF: On a point of procedure. Mr Speaker, I concluded, pending the consideration and approval of have a question that was in yesterday’s Order Paper, so the additional scope. The consideration and approval it is not there in today’s Order Paper, it was Question of the recommended additional scope of the design and 12. Can you assure me when it will come? Thank you. review for Component 1 is planned to be completed by February of this year. MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): As I indicated before, it ought to have been in today’s Order Paper Mr Speaker, the design and review for Component 2 is from yesterday. I am sorry about that, definitely we will complete and was approved in May 2020. The tender ensure that it is on the following paper. It should have documents for Component 2 are still at vetting stage in been on today’s because those are the rules. anticipation to be floated in March 2021. The period of construction for Component 2 is anticipated to be nine SOMERSET WEST INDUSTRIAL ROAD AND months in duration. The Total Estimated Cost for both GERALD ROAD components of the project is P82 million. I thank you Mr Speaker. MR W. B. MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): asked the Minister of Land Management, Water and MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary. Honourable Sanitation Services to apprise this Honourable House Minister, when do you expect delivery of all these road on the Somerset West Industrial Road and Gerald Link components so that a Motswana who has been waiting Road construction. for this road in Francistown will be in the know of when these roads will be ready for use? …Silence… MR MZWINILA: Thank you Mr Speaker. In terms of MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER Component 2, a tender will be floated in March 2021 AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): and the one awarded the contract’s first phase will take Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, Aerodrome Link four months and the last stage will take five months Road project is meant to connect Gerald Estate and totalling a duration of nine months. Like I explained, City of Francistown through Aerodrome area. The in Component 1, we have not made an arrangement of project was necessitated by an Environmental Impact when it is going to commence because the additional Assessment (EIA) report which was done during the scope is yet to be concluded as advised by consultancy. design of Gerald Block 1 and Central Business District Therefore, I cannot confirm when Component 1 will be (CBD) project which was completed in March 2016. The finished but Component 2 will be complete next year. traffic study suggested an alternative route to be sought Thank you Mr Speaker. in order to facilitate traffic flow to and from Gerald. MR MMOLOTSI: Further supplementary. Honourable The scope of the project is divided into two components. Minister, do you assure us that Component 1 will not Component 1 includes a proposed bridge over-rail for disappear forever and we get to be told that funds are Sowa railway line, dual carriageway road, culverts, unavailable to cover the additional scope? Can you solar street lights and traffic lights from Gerald Estate assure us that when you fail with the additional scope, Roundabout and City of Francistown linking at A3, with you will implement the original plan? 3.9 kilometres (km) of road to be built. Component 2 includes servicing of 87 plots at Phase IV industrial, MR MZWINILA: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that this which is referred to as Somerset West Industrial, which project has been awarded P82 million. If as time goes by

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when we are doing our study on the additional scope of (i) construction of Lobu hostels started in 2002 Component 1 and we find that we need a supplementary and was concluded in 2004, they were built by budget, we must go and source the funds. What I can China Civil Engineering Construction. Amongst confirm at the moment is that we have P82 million. If these buildings, 15 hostels were constructed, an Component 1 is going to require other services, we are administration block, a classroom, a warehouse going to source other funds to add to these funds. Thank block, a kitchen and a double storey hostel. you. (ii) the total cost of this project is P12,538,000. MR MAJAGA: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon. Thank you Honourable Mmolotsi, (iii) the last one enquires about what the ministry plans thank you Honourable Minister. Since it appears there to do about the said hostels, the hostel block needs are some components which need to meet standards, to be maintained, so the ministry plans to ensure why did you not release this project as a fully-fledged that this block accommodates people that are one, without those components because they might going for training at Lobu. Thank you Mr Speaker. delay that project Honourable Minister even with that P82 million? Why did you not release it as a complete MR BROOKS: Supplementary. Thank you Mr package, even though additional work will be considered Speaker, thank you Minister for that answer. Minister, afterwards? Thank you. my question is, did you have inspectors to monitor these buildings during construction process at Lobu, MR MZWINILA: Thank you Mr Speaker. We divide those who closely inspected them? Secondly, are you our projects to ensure that we speed up and run our aware that the condition of these hostels endangers the projects efficiently. If a development or project takes lives of people? Since you went there recently when longer, it is going to be costly than when divided. If the President was there, are you aware that it hinders we divide them, we will be able to engage different the learning process which could be taking place at contractors such that if one of them fails to complete the the hostels or at Lobu at large? Because these hostels project, we will engage another one to complete it. This are endangering the lives of people, they do not have is called unbundling of a project. These are processes accommodation nor shelter. Thank you Mr Speaker. undertaken in construction, this entails dividing a project into two, or three or four. It produces better results than MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker and Honourable implementing one project at a go. Thank you. Member. We really understand all the challenges that you are talking about Honourable Brooks. The ministry LOBU HOSTELS has already carried out some investigations to detect MR S. J. BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): ask where the damage arises from and the magnitude of it. the Minister of Agricultural Development and Food In 2021/2022, we will be engaging the consultants so Security if he is aware of the state of Lobu hostels; and that they can to help us map a way forward so as to if so, to state: circumvent the challenges that you have been talking about. Thank you Mr Speaker. (i) when they were built and by which company; MR LUCAS: Thank you Mr Speaker. The issue of Lobu (ii) the cost of the construction; and is like a facility which Government talks much about. We have Agriculture Committee at Lobu and we have (iii) what he plans to do about the said hostels. noted quite a number of challenges. Firstly, we have an ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL office block which was built and developed a crack, it is DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY abandoned, when is the ministry intending to maintain (MS MANAKE): Good afternoon Mr Speaker, and it so that it can be used? Secondly, the perimeter fence Honourable Members. Excuse me Mr Speaker, my of about 42 kilometres is dilapidated such that all the video is not working properly and also the signal. animals that are kept there; goats and other livestock can jump the fence and contact some diseases that are out Mr Speaker, we know the condition that Lobu hostels there. As a Ministry of Agriculture, what are you doing or accommodation facilities are in. In an attempt to about that because Lobu is said to be a flagship project respond to the question by Honourable Brooks; for livestock in Botswana? Thank you very much.

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MS MANAKE: Thank you Mr Speaker. In response to youth and other Batswana do not have land. Thank you Honourable Lucas’ questions, Lobu was constructed in Mr Speaker, we are also looking unto others and hope 1978, many other buildings like perimeter fence were the private sector will develop them so that we can use constructed then. Like he explained, we are trying to them to produce food. Thank you Mr Speaker. revive Lobu so that it can be in our intended state in NON-ALLOCATION OF LAND IN NKANGE terms of livestock. So as a ministry, we investigated CONSTITUENCY some things and have come up with a budget. We are devising how to maintain them in phases considering DR N. TSHABANG (NKANGE): ask the Minister of the fact that we have insufficient funds. I promise that Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services if he Lobu will be in a better state in a short period of time. is aware of the frustration caused by non-allocation of I have already mentioned that the ministry has already land in infill plots in the Nkange Constituency; if so, to engaged the consultants to help us to map a way forward, state: including the issue of biosecurity which he talked about, (i) when he intends to resolve the matter; and diseases and others, as one of the things that we are assessing. We also have a programme through which we (ii) the number of people on the waiting list in Tutume vaccinate animals so that they do not contact diseases Sub-Land Board. out there. Thank you Mr Speaker. MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary from Honourable AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Kekgonegile. Mr Speaker, I am aware of delays in land allocation, including infill plots in Nkange constituency. The last MR KEKGONEGILE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr allocation by the land board in Nkange constituency Speaker. Minister we have many buildings across the dates back to 2015. The factors which contribute to the country like the ones we have at Lobu, those that serve delays include the following; acute shortage of readily a similar purpose like Lobu. At North West, we have available land for allocation, delayed development of Nxaraga which is also in a similar state like Lobu. The detailed layout plans, shortage of funds for compensation question therefore is, are the consultants investigating and to undertake Strategic Environmental Assessments all these buildings across the country or focusing only (SEA). on Lobu? I am saying this because if Nxaraga was in a good state, it could be assisting us in terms of Mr Speaker, allocation of infills ceased after the approval quarantining COVID-19 victims at Maun. So are you of Botswana Land Policy by the National Assembly in only focusing on Lobu or including Nxaraga and other 2015. Paragraph 58(vi) and (vii) of the said policy state buildings? Thank you Mr Speaker. that;

MS MANAKE: Mr Speaker let me thank Honourable (i) Residential plots will be planned and surveyed Kekgonegile for that excellent question. We are not before allocation. focusing on …with our current budget, our consultants are currently focusing on Lobu alone. Areas like Nxaraga (ii) Waiting lists will be maintained where necessary. and others across the country, those which are under Nevertheless, Mr Speaker, the ministry is busy coming the Ministry of Agriculture, we have already carried up with ways in which allocation of land could be out what is known as land inventory and within a short speeded up including allocating un-serviced and period of time, we are going to advertise these areas so minimally serviced land. Over and above that my that farmers can start using them, so that they can serve ministry is exploring other options including Public their intended purpose. Many of these areas are used for Private Partnerships (PPPs), cost recovery and cost research, but now we are looking for research that is sharing. applied, also practical. That is why we intend to facilitate them so that the youth, women and others can use them. Currently, a total of 1075 plots are being surveyed in We will also map a way through which we can develop Nkange Constituency and these include: Changate them together. We will be promoting business, instead 96 plots, Makuta 181 plots, Senete 196 plots, Tutume of developing them for the purposes they serve. Like 483 plots and Matobo 119 plots. Once surveyed, these you said, they are spread across the country although the will be allocated during the fourth quarter of the next

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financial year 2021/2022 and servicing will follow once MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary, Honourable funding is available. Brooks.

In addition, three layouts of Maitengwe 450 plots, MR BROOKS: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. Goshwe 521 plots and Nswazwi with 177 plots are at Let me ask the Minister that it seems like these infill draft stage while base maps are being prepared at Dagwi plots are all over the country not only at Nkange so why and Nkange. I thank you Mr Speaker. can they not come up with a process to help allocate from these plots? DR TSHABANG: Supplementary Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. The Minister did not answer question Secondly, what are their plans regarding this nationwide 3(ii) of Tutume Sub-Land Board waiting list. The other outcry of waiting, it looks like the ministry entertains thing is that it looks like a person waiting for a plot at it? They should help us address the situation with no Nkange Constituency did not get the answer of when further delay. At what speed are you going to address he/she is going to be allocated a plot. It looks like the this problem? He should assure that within this period Minister did not give a clear response as to whether he we will have undertaken one, two, three throughout the is going to allocate people plots or what. It looks like the entire country to reduce this waiting list of thousands of issue of Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA) is people who do not have plots. Mr Speaker, thank you sir. still a stumbling block. We thought it will be solved by now. So my question is how far are we with undertaking MR MZWINILA: Thank you Mr Speaker. In the first SEA so that a person from Nkange or Botswana in question, I think as I explained, Parliament is the one general can get a plot? Thank you Mr Speaker. which passed allocation of infill plots through Land Policy because infill plots are not surveyed and planned. MR MZWINILA: Thank you Mr Speaker. The total Secondly, when we allocate infills, we do so looking at waiting list is 16688 plots. the waiting list. It means infill plots we can allocate are through the layout which is planned or can be planned VILLAGE WAITING LIST and can also be surveyed. This is the policy passed by Tutume 9 888 Parliament. Maitengwe 2 173 Dagwi 308 Regarding the second question of when we will have Nkange 1 315 dealt with the waiting list, I cannot answer it. The issue of waiting list require resources so that we can be able Changate 121 to service plots. In servicing them, we require money Senete 657 so I cannot answer how much budget we have allocated Goshwe 293 towards that. What I can respond to is that we are trying Nswazwi 718 by all means to reduce waiting lists. Thank you. Makuta 712 MR SPEAKER. Member for Serowe North, Honourable Matobo 503 Mathoothe. TOTAL 16 688 MR MATHOOTHE: Good afternoon Mr Speaker, As I explained SEA is subject to availability of funds in question 5. order to undertake this process. I think the Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. Member will see during the budget how we are going to allocate the money we requested to roll out SEA HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. throughout the entire country. Currently, we are trying by all means to source funds or allocate our funds so MR SPEAKER: Minister of Transport and that we can undertake the process in different villages. I Communication. There is no clarification here, we are think in the upcoming financial year, there will be funds asking questions. available to undertake SEA but we will not be able to HONOURABLE MEMBER: You have skipped service the land. I want us to understand that. We can number 4 Mr Speaker. only afford to do layouts, base maps and SEAs in order to allocate unserviced land. We do not have money for HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, you skipped serviced land. Thank you. question 4.

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MR SPEAKER: You are right …(inaudible)… financial resources and because of its close proximity to Palapye Airfield, about 38 km, the MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND ministry is consulting on whether the project COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): May I should continue or improve Palapye Airfield proceed Mr Speaker? for common services to the two villages and MR SPEAKER: Yes, please. reduce operational costs. In other words, utilities, manpower resources and so forth. I thank you Mr AIRFIELD PLOT BETWEEN SEROWE AND Speaker. PALAPYE MR RAMOGAPI: Supplementary Mr Speaker. Let me MR B. MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): asked ask the Minister if he is aware that the airfield plot of the Minister of Transport and Communications: Serowe-Palapye has constantly been moved. I hear him talking about the one in Serowe only, is he aware that at (i) if he is aware of the airfield plot that is allocated first it was at Morupule and people at those lands were to Civil Aviation Authority Botswana (CAAB) between compensated? After they were compensated and were Serowe and Palapye; and hoping that the ministry will come, they disappeared. (ii) when the ministry will start construction of It was later moved to an area we call Dipoong, then infrastructural developments on the airfield. to Sajwe, it was moved again after that. All this was an effort by the ministry to delay in allocating money MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND for building this project. What can we tell Batswana COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Thank you because this project if I may remind you Honourable Mr Speaker. (i) Mr Speaker, I am aware of the airfield plot Minister, was long prepared for during the time when that was allocated to Civil Aviation Authority Botswana Mr Festus Mogae was President. So tell us when are you (CAAB) to the eastern side of Serowe village, which saying it is going to be constructed? Do not guess, tell includes part of the Department of Veterinary Artificial us the exact dates. Insemination Camp. The site measures 4 kilometres by 2 kilometres and has the following coordinates: MR SEGOKGO: Thank you Mr Speaker. The thing is when an Honourable Member does not listen, this is LATITUDES LONGITUDES what happens where we see him asking a question like the one he is asking. In the beginning, you talked about 220 26’ 38.00’’S 260 52’ 51.40’’ E a place being found for building an airport, between Serowe and Palapye. That is what I said in my response, 0 ’ ’’ 0 ’ ’’ 22 26 06.30 S 26 51 54.40 E talking about the first site and I will even read again.

I said, “the first site that was identified for development 0 ’ ’’ 0 ’ ’’ 22 24 09.00 S 26 53 09.50 E of Serowe Airport, along the Serowe/Palapye road, and this is approximately 20 kilometers (km) from Serowe, 220 24’ 40.70’’S 260 54’ 06.60’’E was found to be within the Morupule Coal field and has since been abandoned.” We could not build this airport, where coal was being mined at Morupule. He continues This is the second site as the first site that was identified and mentions a lot of other places, and I should admit for development of Serowe Airport along the Serowe- that these places he is mentioning, I really do not know Palapye Road approximately 20 kilometres from of. He is mentioning them because he wants to show that Serowe was found to be within Morupule Coalfield and we do not intend to provide money to build this airport. was abandoned. I am trying to show him that no, the issue is not that we (iii) Mr Speaker, the project has not been included keep on changing places, it is because maybe we do not in the National Development Plan (NDP) 11 want to build the airport. He is requesting me to verify due to budgetary ceiling constraints. The cost the day we may begin construction and I want to say to of developing a new airfield is estimated at him, I cannot do that. I have tried to answer on the issue approximately P80 million depending on the of cost for building a place like this and as a ministry, proposed level of operation. Due to the limited we are considering that Serowe and Palapye are 38

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km apart. Even the traffic volume is low, is it proper trying to juggle with the numbers so that the people of budgeting to go build and maintain two airstrips in an Kgalagadi do not understand when he talks about things area which has an airfield already at Palapye. That is like up to 0.9, he is trying to confuse people. At the end why I would like to say to him, we are consulting on it, of the… (Inaudible)…now, let me refer to the question. because some things have to be looked at. When we talk What advice is given to expectant mothers who come to about what Honourable Minister Matsheka mentioned the hospital, especially during this time, because they about efficient use of resources, this is what we are are saying people are dying because of bleeding, due talking about. That is to ensure that we use Government to high blood and so on? What advices are there in the resources in a way that indicates that we are using those process Mr Speaker? When you look at these deaths, resources efficiently. Thank you Mr Speaker. at what rate are they, as Botswana, of people who die at hospitals? Should we say Botswana is safe when it MATERNAL MORTALITY RATES IN comes to maternal mortalities at hospitals Mr Speaker? KGALAGADI SOUTH Do we have qualified doctors who do an appropriate MR S. J. BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): asked job on the patients at the district of Kgalagadi? Are the Minister of Health and Wellness to state: the buildings and facilities where patients deliver in a suitable state? Is it a situation that is suitable for people, (i) the maternal mortality rate in the Kgalagadi South in that when you go there right now, you can say no, the Constituency in the past five years to date and area is conducive, somebody can be delivered here? of those who were referred to Princess Marina Hospital from Tsabong Primary Hospital; Lastly Mr Speaker, these people who die, when their parents want their reports, why is it that they are denied (ii) what are the common causes of maternal them? When Sam Brooks’s child dies for that reason, mortalities; and why it is that they are denied the report on the death? A written report so that they can find closure or take any (iii) what happens to the affected babies during these action they may wish to take Mr Speaker. Why is the unfortunate incidents. process so hard like this?

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Maybe WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you in answering Honourable Member Mr Speaker, let so much Mr Speaker. I hope I am audible that side. me indicate that he asked about the rates in terms of The maternal mortality rates for Kgalagadi South percentage. When we talk about numbers, the patients Constituency, in the past five years range from 0 to 0.9 that you asked about who died when they were referred per cent which are as follows; 0 per cent in 2016, that to Marina, in 2016; 258 patients were referred to means 46 people were referred to Marina none of the Tsabong, 38 patients were referred to Marina, no one kids died; 0.9 per cent in 2017; 0 per cent in 2018; 0 died. 2017; 459, 48 referred to Marina, no one died Mr per cent in 2019 and 0.3 per cent 2020. The maternal Speaker. 2018; 552, 51 referred to Marina, no one died. mortality rates of patients who were referred to Princess 2019; 619, 45 referred to Marina, one died. 2020; 692, Marina Hospital from Tsabong Primary Hospital range 33 referred to Marina, one died. So, if you look at those from 0 to 0.15 per cent for the same period and are as who have died at Tsabong, four in 2017, in 2020 only follows: 0 per cent in 2016; 0 per cent in 2017; 0 per one died, when we talk about the numbers. That is what cent in 2018; 0.02 per cent in 2019 and 0.15 per cent I am saying. in 2020. The common causes of maternal mortalities are; postpartum haemorrhage (bleeding); bleeding a When we talk about issues of reports, it would be so lot until one dies, hypertensive diseases in pregnancy unfortunate that one is not consulted because when (eclampsia) and sepsis, where there is an infection, one someone has died, what happens is that the health ends up losing their life. The affected babies are taken workers call you and tell you what happened to your care of by their next of kin. Furthermore, babies are patient. Whatever you need, you should be provided referred to relevant stakeholders for provision of social with, if that is the case Honourable Member. support services. I thank you Honourable Member. When we talk about the availability of doctors, we MR BROOKS: Supplementary. Mr Speaker, even have midwives in the whole country who take care of though Honourable Minister is answering it technically, expectant women. If a case requires a doctor like you

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were saying, they are the ones who end up referring MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL them to Marina so that they would be given a certain RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM amount of care. Issues in relation to hypertension, (MS KERENG): Good afternoon, thank you Mr those are ailments which people fall pregnant having Speaker. Thank you Honourable Member for the and sometimes one ends up losing their life due to question. escalated high blood pressure during pregnancy. In terms of bleeding, sometimes one would be suffering (i) Mr Speaker, the information received from tourism from diseases in relation to blood, sometimes their operators indicate that in 2019 an amount of P19, blood would be thin…(Inaudible)…So during delivery 830, 300.00 in revenue was realised by tourism it would be discovered that their blood is not able to businesses in Jwaneng-Mabutsane Constituency, clot; they would bleed non-stop, maybe having cancer whereas in 2020, P7, 571, 882 was realised which of the blood, then they would end up losing their life. reflects a loss of revenue amounting to P12, 258, In regard to all these issues, when expectant women 418.00 and this is associated with the COVID-19 go to the clinics, they are advised not to delay visiting pandemic. Mr Speaker, there has generally been for antenatal care, because there they are screened for minimal job losses within the tourism establishment high blood pressure. It happens that sometimes people in the Jwaneng-Mabutsane Constituency. I must would come in the last days of their pregnancy, and one admit that I do not have statistics or numbers in would discover that it is not easy to manage such cases. terms of jobs that must have been lost but it is I believe the Honourable Member can trust the health important to note that while we reported, generally care system of Botswana; I mean considering the figures minimum losses or indication of minimum losses, I gave you and the statistics of the people who delivered retained staff within this operation were put on in that hospital, there is no child who lost their life. varying patterns of work such as worksheet, paid and unpaid leave as well as reduced wages. The It is so unfortunate, but we do not take losing one life wage subsidy which was provided also ensured for granted, that is why we have a register of people who that employees were kept on the job. died in hospitals because the World Health Organisation (WHO), does not believe a human being should lose (ii) Mr Speaker, our records indicate that the Jwaneng- their life during childbirth. Mabutsane area has a total of 13 tourism operations which consists of four hotels, five bed and MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, it is understood. breakfast, two guesthouses, one self-catering and Let us move on. one tourist transfer business. Hotels had registered MR LELATISITSWE: Yes sir. the largest amount of average revenue lost, owing to postponement and cancellation of booking, LOSS OF REVENUE DURING COVID-19 ERA owing to travel restrictions and the moratorium that was effected on meetings, conferences and MR M. REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): workshops. Travel agencies, tourist transfers and asked the Minister of Environment, Natural Resources self-catering facilities also experienced loss of Conservation and Tourism to state: revenue or have also been affected by COVID-19. (i) how much revenue has been lost during the Guesthouses registered the lowest amount of COVID-19 era so far in the tourism sector and average revenue loss because they remained open in particular in Jwaneng-Mabutsane including most of the time when other businesses were closure of businesses and job losses; closed.

(ii) the types of tourists enterprises affected; (iii) Out of 13 licensed tourism enterprises in the area, 12 are citizen owned companies or businesses (iii) how many of the enterprises are citizen owned; while one is a joint venture. and (iv) Mr Speaker, the Government in terms of the short- (iv) what short and long term mitigation plans are term measure to mitigate COVID-19 impact on the being put in place to cushion the already poor businesses, provided a wage subsidy from April Jwaneng-Mabutsane communities from the effects to June 2020 which was extended to December of COVID-19 and other future disasters. 2020 for the tourism industry. This extended wage

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subsidy was due to the realisation that the tourism your ministry? I would like to know if investigations industry, due to its dependence on travel, will take are ongoing because I have queries. Also, inform us long to recover and had been hard hit. whom you are giving these queries to in your ministry Honourable Minister...(Interruptions)…rights as given In addition, Government has established the Industry by the Government? Let me stop here. Thank you. Support Facility to the tune of P200 million for the Travel and Tourism businesses to assist in the revival of the MS KERENG: I thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you for businesses and the economy. The fund is administered acknowledging the wage subsidy Honourable Member. by the National Development Bank (NDB) in the form I also want to agree with you that the wage subsidy of interest-free loans. has issues or problems because in some places or in some businesses, these funds were not able to reach In terms of the long-term revival and sustainability the workers. I would like to point out that considering plans Mr Speaker, my ministry is continuing to how things were going; the bulk of the challenge has to provide support through funding for community based do with the agreement between the workers and their businesses that can assess the National Environmental employers, in terms of how the payments would be made. Fund (NEF), the Tourism Industry Training Fund (TITF) You would discover that some employers used their and Conservation Trust Fund (CTF) which are funding own funds prior to the subsidies, hence the agreements packages that are available to support tourism related between the employees and employers is the one that businesses and also businesses that explore and utilise has resulted in the belief that the main solution will now natural resources. I want to mention Mr Speaker, to the come from the department of employment or from the Honourable Member that the Trans-Kalahari highway labour department. What we have already done as a provides opportunity for tourism in the area as we ministry, upon realising that our businesses are facing endeavour to diversify tourism opportunities around the such challenges, there were many queries sir, they even country. We expect that communities will be organised reached me as they reached you; we compiled them, and supported by the ministry and the stakeholders to we even released a communique or a press release that develop tourism enterprises that can benefit from this informed people that they could report their concerns to initiative. the numbers we gave them, so that they would report In addition, and lastly Mr Speaker, agro-tourism has been those queries to the Department of Labour, so that we introduced and farmers will be able to introduce game would address them together. in their masimo (lands) or in their farms to edify their You asked whether investigations are ongoing, indeed farming and also tap into the tourism market. We are also investigations are ongoing. It is something we are looking at Jwaneng in terms of the park; Jwaneng Park working on with the Labour Department, and the that is already in operation and the possibility of also intention is that they would assist us in that regard. The diversifying into the mining tourism that also provides opportunities for communities to engage in sustainable other thing is that that wage subsidy is administrated by projects. All in all, Mr Speaker, the Tourism Policy that the Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS), so we we expect to pass this current sitting of Parliament, is are also collaborating to ensure that these issues reach going to guide in terms of projects and possibilities that them, so that when they carry out researches, they can we can engage our communities in to derive livelihoods be able to advise us on what we can do in the ministry. from long-term sustainable tourism corporations. I thank Honourable, these things are still ongoing. Thank you you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker.

MR REATILE: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister. We I thank you Honourable Minister for that diligent answer. are doing very badly. We only allow one supplementary… Honourable Minister, in the issue of wage subsidy, I just MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary. Thank you Mr wanted to understand that since you gave out money Speaker. The Minister was talking about the agro- to see to it that Batswana are assisted, there are some tourism guidelines, so I would like to ask if they have companies that were not able to pass those subsidies to already been launched if they are active. their employees; despite having received those monies from you. How far are you with the investigations MS KERENG: Thank you Mr Speaker. We launched Honourable Minister because this situation is rife in agro-tourism guidelines in February last year and they

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are already active. Towards the end of last year, we HONOURABLE MEMBER: I can see, that is why my incorporated the strategy to develop that programme questions are not in the Order Paper. by allowing farmers to keep game in agricultural farms. Sir, we have completed drafting this programme and MR SPEAKER: Yes, you will think like that. Next right now we are still packaging its information. We will time you will be serious when you ask questions. soon launch it to the public. Thank you Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Supplementary. MR SPEAKER: Yes. Honourable Minister...

MR SPEAKER: It is late Mokhurutshe. Time is not on …Silence… our side. MR SPEAKER: Minister of Finance and Economic HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… Development has a paper to table.

MR SPEAKER: Listen! …(Inaudible)… thank you …Silence… very much. The next day, we have questions plus question number 12 from yesterday by Honourable MR SPEAKER: Minister of Finance and Economic Greeff. It must appear in the next paper. The time for Development… questions has elapsed. HONOURABLE MEMBER: He went to Lobatse. DR TSHABANG: Procedure. Yes Mr Speaker, when I Skip him so that we can move on Mr Speaker. look at the Order Paper, I notice that some members have two questions in each Order Paper. I do not understand MR SPEAKER: We have to do that because we do not this procedure Mr Speaker because we agreed that each have time. member should have one question. HONOURABLE MEMBER: His chair is empty, let MR SPEAKER: I do not know where you got that us proceed. from, that each member should have one question. What I know is the limit of a maximum of three questions, MR SPEAKER: Who are you? that is assuming there are no other members who HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… Since have questions. We could have three questions from when do you not know who we are? You are just fuming. Honourable Dr Tshabang if there are no other questions which came the same time. That is the limit, not two. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are not supposed to DR TSHABANG: Further procedure Mr Speaker. attack us like this.

MR SPEAKER: No, let us move away from that one. MR SPEAKER: You are the ones who are attacking me. DR TSHABANG: No, a little one. HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am not attacking you. MR SPEAKER: A little one? When did I attack you Mr Speaker? I am asking this DR TSHABANG: Yes. Some have two questions in question as a youngster. the Order Paper, but some have not asked questions HONOURABLE MEMBER: Today you are a since the whole of this week yet they have forwarded youngster? questions. That is the question. HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are a lawyer, ask MR SPEAKER: Yes, I understand you Honourable Dr questions which…(inaudible)… Tshabang. Come to the office for further explanations on how the questions are processed, so that she can give HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am a youngster to Mr you a clear explanation as to why it is like this. Speaker. I am his child.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Does this mean that we HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are a lawyer. should all come to your office? MR SPEAKER: He is a good lawyer for your MR SPEAKER: No, I do not want you. information. Honourable Members, I understand the

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Leader of the House has got a Business Motion to move. Tuesdays and Thursdays should commence at 1100 Leader of the House… hours. I thank you and move accordingly Mr Speaker.

… Silence… MR SPEAKER: I have seen the hands of Honourable Modukanele. What is the issue? Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is not here, he is on Modukanele, why is your hand up? a honeymoon. HONOURABLE MEMBER: He supports the Motion. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: He does not know these MR SPEAKER: Are you not being provocative? things.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Very clever, valentine is Question put and agreed to. going to be interesting. APPROPRIATION (2021/2022) BILL, MR SPEAKER: Leader of the House! 2021 (NO. 2 OF 2021) HONOURABLE MEMBER: He went to Boteti. Second Reading MR SPEAKER: Yes, you might say Boteti, he is (Resumed Debate) not saying anything when we search for him. Let me call upon the Minister of Finance and Economic MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, Development to table his paper. the debate on this Bill is resuming, when the House adjourned yesterday, Honourable Kapinga was on the TABLING OF PAPER floor, he is left with six minutes and 12 seconds.

The following paper was tabled: HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND ASSET HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure. Honourable DISPOSAL ANNUAL REPORT, 2019/2020. Kapinga had just finished yesterday.

(Minister of Finance and Economic Development) MR SPEAKER: I am sure he can indicate if he is there, HONOURABLE MEMBER: You should always be but in terms of our records, the floor is his. Honourable on time Honourable. Kapinga!

MR SPEAKER: We thank you Honourable Minister. HONOURABLE MEMBER: He cannot hear you. I know what you had to do; to run between where you MR SPEAKER: He can. have been connected and physical delivery of the paper here in Parliament. Thank you very much Honourable MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you Mr Minister. Leader of the House, Business Motion. Speaker. Mr Speaker, mine is just to emphasise what I said yesterday that we heard huge figures which were MR MMOLOTSI: Ah! Things are now out of control. read out for this year’s budget allocation but…

MR SPEAKER: Leader of the House! MR MOATLHODI: Procedure Mr Speaker. Thank LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): you Mr Speaker. I think it will be best for Honourable Yes, Mr Speaker. Should I table the Motion Mr Speaker? Kapinga to explain if it is indeed true that he had concluded his debate because he is accused of having MR SPEAKER: Yes, please! concluded. On top of that, I had asked for procedure before you proceeded Mr Speaker. Can I go on with it BUSINESS MOTION so that you respond to both of them?

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): MR SPEAKER: Yes, please. Yes, thank you. I beg to move in terms of Standing Order 27.1 (a) for a variation of sitting hours of the House. MR MOATLHODI: Thank you Mr Speaker. With Mr Speaker, I propose that the sitting of the House on all due respect, my request is that you should make

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an arrangement with your technicians to show time of the nation, we can reduce their expenditure; the allocated on our screens so that even when we debate, President’s security service and others who use national we know how much of our time we have used. Otherwise security. It is not impossible. If someone wants me to I am just finding it very unfair just to depend religiously give specific examples, I can cite where we can reduce on you. I so pray Mr Speaker. without compromising anyone’s security. When you advise them to reduce in a certain area, they will ask you MR SPEAKER: That is a technical issue which we can if you are not aware that you are compromising national attend to, if it is possible, that would be done to facilitate security. That is where we have a pitfall if we are not you. On the issue related to Honourable Ambassador careful. Kapinga, that is not for him, we have kept the records, in terms of the record, he has the floor, and the matter Lastly Mr Speaker, I was saying… stands as that. MR MOATLHODI: On a point of procedure before MR MOATLHODI: Now why is someone accusing he finishes Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker, you him? will correct me but I think I am right, it is procedure. Mr Speaker, is it procedural to compare two different MR KAPINGA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Yesterday scenarios? Honourable Member of Okavango has just when I debated, I emphasised that it is not allocating the stated that in a country which he cannot name and I P64 billion in Government expenditures that can take might know which one it is, the President would take his the country forward only. The most important thing is family on a holiday. Right now he gave an example that that those who have been tasked with the responsibility His Excellency the President took a huge plane and went of managing Government assets should change the on an official business to Namibia. In all fairness, does way they view things. A country which is careless with the Honourable Member of Okavango know what could national assets and funds can be seen in the way they have been wrong with the small plane that the President spend funds on their President. You will find that when usually uses that day? Did he find out all these? Over it comes to the President, he has a blank cheque. When and above, I think we need to be fair to the President, he says he wants something, it is given to him. most of the time if not at all times. He did not go on holiday, he was on an official business. This is the most Mr Speaker, I stayed in one country which I am not at important and basic thing that should be double written liberty to name. When the President wanted to go on and double underlined. I so pray Mr Speaker. holiday, he would take Boeing 777 of that country’s airline and go on holiday with his family and the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi rose on a airline will be left stranded with no plane to be used point of procedure, I have to rule, I will come back to by its customers. Mr Speaker, I want to say this with you honourable. I think Honourable Moatlhodi, you all conviction that we must condemn such tendencies have totally misunderstood what Honourable Kapinga while at infancy stage in our country. Just recently, the was saying. He was dealing with the principle of being President used a very huge plane with a small delegation careful about how we spend national funds. And he gave and travelled to Namibia, misusing the national funds. an example of what he thought was not being careful, However, there are some who still do not consider this he kindly read that some leader would use a Boeing 777 worthy of reprimand that this is misuse of national to take a family for holiday. Then coming home, saying funds. watch out, even here, we used a big plane to take a small delegation to Namibia. If in fact it was not a big plane, Like I said yesterday, even the misuse that I witnessed it would be explained. If it was for good reasons, they when the President went to hand out a buck and a ram at can be explained. All he is saying is that, this is what Shakawe, these are the things that need to be condemned he observed. I do not think it is wrong to observe and as corruption. genuinely point out. This would be disabused by those who know by explaining that, no, you are wrong, there Secondly Mr Speaker, when you try to advise that they is no abuse of facilities here because a, b, c. should stop mismanagement of funds done in the name of national security, you will be told that security is MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND expensive. However, that is an area where if you want COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Thank you to create financial reform, if you want to save expenses Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I want to deal first with this

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issue of procedure because I feel particularly aggrieved, MR SPEAKER: Indeed, that is the procedure, we have I had raised my hand quite some time before Honourable to ask Honourable Kapinga. Moatlhodi unmuted himself and then proceeded to ask for a point of procedure. I am aggrieved Mr Speaker, MR KAPINGA: I yield Mr Speaker. because yesterday; just yesterday, I asked how we catch MR SPEAKER: He has yielded. the eye of the Speaker and how we interrupt and raise matters of procedure. I was told, quite specific that we MR SEGOKGO: Thank you Honourable Kapinga. ought to, that we will raise our virtual arm and then the Honourable Kapinga, as the Speaker has clearly stated Speaker will ask us what point we wish to raise. So, that out in relation to the point you are trying to make, I do is why I am aggrieved Mr Speaker. The reason that I had think that in your observation, what I must make clear is sought to raise my arm Mr Speaker, was, if you allow that when His Excellency sought to travel to Namibia, a request was made to Air Botswana as to the availability me to proceed… of an aircraft to assist with his trip. In that respect MR SPEAKER: Please proceed. Honourable Kapinga, the available aircraft and looking at the distance that he needed to travel was our jet aircraft MR SEGOKGO: …was because I sought to rise on a and other aircrafts were being used on scheduled flights. point of clarification or rather on a point of elucidation, Therefore, in terms of the selection of the actual aircraft my apologies Mr Speaker, when Honourable Kapinga itself, it is influenced by a number of factors. This is was speaking. what I wanted to make clear. I may not be in a position to speak about the availability of other aircrafts that may MR SPEAKER: Honourable Segokgo, you are right have been available to His Excellency, but he was on an about the procedure of catching the Speaker’s eye. You official trip and the aircraft that was made available to are quite right; it should be virtual. him was precisely the one that would have suited him in Your colleague as you know probably like me, tries the trip and that would have allowed for Air Botswana to be literate, that is Honourable Moatlhodi, on these to continue with its operation. I thank you Mr Speaker. matters. He tries to use both. When he uses the voice MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister, and probably I have not been looking at the screen because you have verified a matter which is… strictly, it will be by mistake that I will take him before (Inaudible)… Honourable Kapinga, must not have been you. That should not happen because you are right, we aware of and that is how the debates should go. Thank should use the screen and nothing else. So from now you Honourable Member Kapinga, you still have two on Honourable Members, I will keep quiet, look at the minutes. screen and ignore any voice; big or small, unless I see the hand on the screen. I was told the screen will also show MR KAPINGA: Thank you Mr Speaker. I appreciate whose hand went up first, which if it works properly, the response of the Honourable Minister. It does not that is fair so that we do not skip people such that they deal with the point of principle that I raise about the cost take the floor before you even though you raised a hand implications of using such a huge aircraft to transport before them. I am sorry Honourable Segokgo, but I must such a small delegation. I appreciate that explanation agree with you, you are quite right. he gave but still my point remains, the cost should have been seriously looked at and other alternatives found. MR SEGOKGO: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that. Therefore... In conclusion Mr Speaker, my main theme in responding to this Budget Speech is that even if a lot of money can HONOURABLE MEMBER: You cannot take the be given to us, if our budget is more than P100 billion, floor again; we have been raising our hands virtually. if we continue with corruption and wastage as well You are the one who instructed us to do so. Ah! as appointing those who cannot account for wastage that they cause, if we do not stop doing that, nothing MR SEGOKGO: Elucidation. Mr Speaker, here will change for the better. Instead, we will continue to is another example of a man that is now violating depreciate gradually, until we become like those who procedure. I just wanted to make it clear because I we usually laugh at on the basis that their countries have had said that Mr Speaker, I wish to rise on a point of collapsed. elucidation, and I was hoping that you will finish with that, or Honourable Kapinga would allow for that. So I am saying Mr Speaker, let us change, let us

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refrain from these habits. Let us appoint those who are I will talk about infrastructure development again, this qualified or capable for higher positions, not because country has minerals such as coal which is a lot and they are in our good books. This is the reason why need to improve our infrastructure projects of roads some countries collapsed. Let us not search from far, and railway lines so that we can benefit a lot from just nearby, the examples are there of cadre deployment our minerals Mr Speaker. I applaud you Honourable and consequences thereof will collapse the country and Minister for coming up with this initiative. service delivery and encourage corruption and lack of accountability. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I want to discuss paragraph 108; I am thankful that the Ministry of Land Management and MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Kapinga. Water Sanitation Services has been allocated the I see a number of people on my list. Let me remind largest share of the development budget. Mr Speaker, you Honourable Members that the way we have this country is faced with a huge challenge of lack of been debating, we consider the numbers both on the water especially in the South region. I am representing Government side and the opposition and we do the Gabane-Mmankgodi constituency, they are the ones who 1:2, 1:2. We proceed on that basis, I give the floor to sent me to Parliament Mr Speaker but a village as big as Honourable Kagiso Mmusi. Mmankgodi, a few days back during Christmas we spent MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND a week with no water, not even a drop. This happens in all the villages like Gabane or Metsimotlhabe, you SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker. can stay for days with no water. We have villages like Let me take this opportunity to respond to the budget Mokolwe, Mophakane, Goo Kobue, Rakola, Diphiring speech by the Minister of Finance and Economic and Fikeng which do not even have a water stand pipe. Development, Dr Thapelo Matsheka, who is also a I am happy that this Ministry of Land Management, Member of Parliament for Lobatse. I am pleased Mr Water and Sanitation Services has been allocated the Speaker, I support the budget speech by Honourable largest share. Please ensure that there is water supply Minister Matsheka because when he presented the at our constituencies, there should be no shortage. We budget speech last year, he was clear, that he wants to are living during times where water is a necessity. I can transform the economy but then COVID-19 hit after see that Masama-Mmamashia 100 kilometre pipeline is his 2020 Budget Speech which is a true reflection of under construction and I strongly believe that it is one the saying, “you can never predict the future.” That is of the projects which will help with the water supply to exactly what happened last year. However, he did not this region. give up, he fought and today he presented a speech which I fully support Mr Speaker. Still under this ministry, I want to talk about plots because the constituency I am representing is surrounding I want to focus on some paragraphs in the speech our capital city of Gaborone but we fall under the presented by Honourable Minister Matsheka. I will Mogoditshane Land Board. We have so many waiting start with paragraph 111 which I fully support of lists but there are no plot allocations. People who own major transport infrastructure because in order for our lands around these areas are willing to give their land to economy to diversify, we should first develop our roads the Government so that their children can be allocated and railway lines so that we transport our minerals and plots and move from home. That is the request I submit use our roads. I believe if we can do that, we can be to this ministry to speed up the process of buying these able to attract good investors to this country so that they lands and have a clear and proper policy implemented can come and help revitalise our economy. In that same so that people can give their land to the land board and paragraph, he also talks about information technology start designing and laying out the plots then allocate projects. Information and Communications Technology plots in a short period of time. If we do not do that, we (ICT) which the Government of the day of the Botswana will end up in a very uncomfortable situation with no Democratic Party is seriously undertaking to develop idea where we took the wrong turn. this country and transform it to a high income status. So, we need technology in order to function. Just like now, Mr Speaker, I will move on and go to paragraph 114; we can sit in Parliament whilst in our offices. I believe Honourable Minister talked about Gabane infrastructural these are the things which can move us forward but we development project. Mr Speaker, this project of Gabane have to improve our technology. infrastructural development has caused a lot of sadness.

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The objective was to construct roads, water drainage able to start this project. Now I am beginning to have systems but as it rains, water is going to overflow to fear as a leader of the people of this constituency. It people’s homes, they will drown and call us to report also includes Mogoditshane, Honourable Rakgare and that their furniture has been destroyed by water. Even Kumakwane, Honourable Motaosane; we are together the quality of the road infrastructure is unsatisfactory. I in this project. We will end up losing the project when implore the Ministry of Local Government to find ways we are told funds are available. When projects are to ensure this project can be refurbished while it is still presented, and a budget is put before us, let us ensure at the initial stage. This project is about to be completed that they are implemented. and Government will have lost including Gabane- Mmankgodi Constituency, Gabane village, we will not This road has access roads in my constituency of have benefited from this project. So I am pleading, I Gabane-Mmankgodi. This dual carriage highway has the heard the Minister talking about it but Minister although Gabane-Tloaneng-Mmankgodi access road. This road is you talked about it, this project is behind schedule, it is also damaged as I speak now, it is now impassable and it not worth mentioning. Mr Speaker, this water does not is never graded because it is neglected and it is not being flow well from Gabane, it overflows to people’s homes constructed. We have long waited for a new road to be and causes damage, it also overflows to Mmokolodi. constructed. I am really pleading. As we speak, if you visit Mmokolodi village during We have another access road at Mmokolodi, it branches this rainy period, the roads are bad but people have off the Boatle dual carriage highway. The Boatle road built beautiful homes, they tried to upgrade their is complete, but up to now, we have not seen our access lifestyles by taking loans and building but now water road all the way up to Mmokolodi being constructed. is damaging everything through projects which are Mmokolodi is an urban settlement, with luxurious not well implemented. Honourable Ministers of Local houses all the way into the village, yet we have no road Government should closely monitor this project. to use, whereas those people have developed their plots. We have another project of Diagane at Mogoditshane What is painful is that this Gaborone-Boatle Road is now Block 9, which is to construct a tarred road around completed, but the access road is not done. Honourable the village and this project is also not going well. This Minister of Finance, I request that you look into these past Sunday, people experienced water overflow and issues in our constituency Honourable Member. we had to run around seeking assistance from all over We have a lot of water shortage like I said. We can the constituency and asking people to cooperate. Mr stay for days without drinking water from taps in our Speaker, I implore the Minister to ensure that in these constituency. We are experiencing water coming from projects, of course they should be allocated funds but the the hills which is damaging our houses, it cannot be contractors should be good. The Constituency of Gabane- drained properly. We need to speed these things up Mmankgodi has a lot of challenges because there are since you have given the Ministry of Local Government no internal roads even in villages like Metsimotlhabe, so much money, so that they can also assist us. The Diagane Tsolamosese, Lesirane including Mmankgodi. Ministry of Land Management, Water and Sanitation We would like to be assisted with internal roads because should also assist us and fix this. people staying in those villages have built themselves houses with their own money and are working. Let their Honourable Minister, you have presented a very good properties not be destroyed just like that. budget which I support. Honourable Member, like I have been saying, we should ensure that projects are Mr Speaker, I also request the Honourable Minister implemented. Right now we need a team that will be of Finance to ensure that since they have allocated the able to monitor from your ministry that projects are money now, projects should be implemented. carried out professionally, on time, implemented and up Mr Speaker, in this constituency of Gabane- to budget. We will end up being confronted by problems Mmankgodi, there is a road from Mogoditshane-Pula if we do not do that. It is very important that projects Spar to Mmankgodi-Sengaparile junction dual carriage are implemented in the stipulated time, they are done highway. This road has long been allocated funds in the properly and they also benefit Batswana. At Paragraph last financial year, but up to now it has not commenced. 111, you are saying you want to construct major roads The Transport and Communications Department are not which you will be …

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, if I may Mr the Honourable Minister of Finance that when he Speaker. comes to respond, he should try by all means to give us an overview of how this Budget Speech is going to MR SPEAKER: You may not. be implemented or managed in order to see the lives MR MMUSI: Should I continue Mr Speaker? of Batswana improving and we should see the money that was allocated get into the hands of Batswana and MR SPEAKER: Yes, I gave you the floor. change their lives. That is what we came here for, and I commend him. If we cannot do that, we will end up MR MMUSI: Thank you Sir. Yes Sir. I was saying it being under pressure and unable to assist Batswana. is very important that we collaborate and ensure that You often say Mr Speaker, we have overshot the these projects are implemented and that they can be runway. I wish that in the coming years we do not end done while there is time so that those that will come the up overshooting the runway, not knowing where we are, next year, will also be done in time. I think the challenge and maybe being under water. Mr Speaker, I wish that that… this budget be approved and used accordingly. MR SPEAKER: We have a hand up. Honourable I also want to talk about Paragraph 112; a Development Leader of the House, you have your hand up, on what Budget of the Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security. point? Before I get into it, I want to thank our frontline officers a lot; men and women in uniform for the good job they LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Mr are doing for this country. We realise that from the Speaker, my point was of procedure. time the COVID- 19 virus came into this country, we MR SPEAKER: Yes, let us hear the procedure. saw men and women of frontline workers rise to the occasion by assisting everywhere they were requested to MR TSOGWANE: My procedure really is not coming assist. They worked tirelessly, and even now they have from myself but I have seen two hands, Honourable continued working. Even right now during these times Moatlhodi’s and Honourable Keorapetse’s. They have of heavy rains, they are the ones who are determined been raising their hands for a very long time. I was to save the lives of Batswana. I am very thankful for wondering if they want to catch your eye or what? That the job they are doing. Let me also be thankful for the was my worry that did the Honourable Members just money they have been given in order for us to provide raise their hands or did they make a mistake. them with resources that will be able to assist them, good accommodation, where they stay and their lives MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much. I tend to ignore should also be successful. some of them, especially Honourable Moatlhodi. There is a problem that I really know; he wants to raise the I do not want to forget the Department of Administration hand or put it down but he cannot speak in the debate of Justice. They have also continued to do a good job in because he was the first one to speak. He could raise his collaboration with the Attorney General’s Chambers. hand on some other point but not to ask for the floor to debate. Some could do that. Thank you Vice President Mr Speaker, still talking about the Ministry of Defence, (VP). Justice and Security, I know that some of us are going to say we are going to buy air assets being fighter HONOURABLE MEMBER: What seems to be the jets. I would like to assure this House and Batswana problem today? in general that in the budget we have been allocated as the Development Budget, we shall not use those MR SPEAKER: Continue Mokhurutshe. funds to buy fighter jets. All the funds will go towards MR MOATLHODI: Thank you Mr Speaker. No, it was implementing developments that will assist the soldiers, just to tell Honourable Minister that there is nothing the police officers, Prisons, Administration of Justice called fields (ditshimo), you say ploughing fields and those at the Attorney General. We are not going to (masimo). Let us speak Setswana properly, children are take the funds to buy air assets, that one I can assure the listening to us. Thank you Mr Speaker. nation and this Honourable House. Let me continue to thank the soldiers and the police officers for the good MR MMUSI: Thank you sir, I heard you. Yes ploughing that they continue to do for this country and I encourage fields (masimo) Honourable Member. So let me request them to continue doing such a sterling job.

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As I rest my case Mr Speaker, I support the Budget the whole world is talking about a vaccine, especially Presentation as delivered to us by Honourable Dr because the disease is now among us. In Botswana, Thapelo Matsheka, Minister of Finance and Economic we are seeing what is called local transmission; the Development. I thank you Mr Speaker. disease is within our midst. We can see that this disease has affected the economy of Botswana. I would like to MR SPEAKER: What I am going to do now is to encourage Batswana to say indeed the disease is among give the floor to Honourable Lelatisitswe followed by us; hence, we should take care as much as we can. We Honourable Motsamai. He has been lifting up his hand, are in a situation where we can see that hospitals are now I do not know where he has gone. filled to capacity and the numbers keep soaring. This ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND being the case, it becomes heavy on the Government, WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): I thank you because taking care of COVID-19 patients requires a lot Mr Speaker. Let me take this opportunity Mr Speaker of funds. It is time that as Batswana we should take care, to comment on the speech that was presented by the that is to say, one should not be told by the next person Minister of Finance and Economic Development. He that they should not have a wedding or a gathering uttered several main points. First and foremost, let me of any sort. A time has come Mr Speaker that as the thank him for the fact that amidst such challenges, he Parliament of Botswana, we should remind the people managed to come to Parliament to give us an update in our respective constituencies that we are under siege. regarding our coffers. Mr Speaker, he pointed out that Each and everyone of us should take responsibility; we have been attacked by a disease, a pandemic that has we should not use the soldiers and police officers to hit the whole world. Our country Botswana has been police people round, because we are all seeing this affected, our coffers were affected by the consequences situation and it is affecting the economy. Many people of this pandemic; we saw our coffers going down, have lost their jobs. I wish Batswana could arise and because all the funds were taken, as the Government protect themselves from this disease, because it is very was trying to deliver Batswana from the ramifications dangerous and we can see that people are perishing in of the Corona virus. large numbers. I have shown appreciation to all those Primarily, let me thank the public service employees who have been involved in fighting it. who have been at the forefront in fighting this pandemic; Let me also thank the COVID-19 Team, that during this fighting it in Botswana and in other countries, protecting period of the State of Emergency (SoE) they have been our nation, because if it was not for them, we could have guiding us. I believe that Batswana have heard how this lost many lives. Right now all countries Mr Speaker, are talking about the vaccine and we are getting ready for virus spreads. We thank them for what they have been it. Let us thank the scientists because they are trying to doing all this time, I am convinced that going forward, come up with a vaccine that will help us as the world, Batswana now understand how this virus operates. even us as Botswana, are prepared for it. Mr Speaker, the Minister mentioned a number of points HONOURABLE MEMBER: I have asked to rise on a that are going to affect Batswana, in relation to how our point of procedure Mr Speaker. country has been affected. He mentioned that taxes for some commodities are going to be increased and this MR LELATISITSWE: I believe that shows progress is a way in which the Government would be able to Mr Speaker… continue securing the budget that has been presented before us today. Batswana, let us arise and try to do what MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, earlier when the we can do. Honourable Member was debating my hand was up because I wanted to correct something, when The greatest challenge that I have observed is that even Honourable Moatlhodi was commenting. My hand was in a pandemic like this one, we see people bringing in not up because I am ready to debate. Thank you. politics unnecessarily. Let us know that this disease is not brought about by politics, it is not brought by the BDP. MR SPEAKER: Okay, thank you Honourable Member. The BDP is only trying to control it using these public Honourable Lelatisitswe continue please. service employees, they are the ones giving guidance; MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, I was still saying they are leading the fight as we speak. So when we I would like to thank the scientists because right now involve politics in this and say looting is taking place,

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we would be interfering with the Government which is to pay attention to these issues because population… if only trying to assist us. you can take a look at the spatial plan that I talked about, it will guide you on where to take developments to. Mr Mr Speaker, when it comes to the budget sir, let me point Speaker, the spatial plan is there, it is a well-researched out that I come from the Boteti area, which is surrounded document which tells you where you should take the by several mines. Right now as I am speaking to you, we developments of this country to and I could not be here have been experiencing torrential rains. As Batswana, talking about developments of Letlhakane. Spatial plan we have been praying all the time asking for rain from shows you that the economy of this country can flourish God and the current rains that fell in Boteti were indeed in Letlhakane and support any jobs, looking at the mines torrential. It has been causing floods, water has been that are around us. It tells you about towns like Selebi entering people’s homes and destroying their property Phikwe and villages like Palapye, that these are the and it has proven that a big village like Letlhakane areas which need developments. Mr Speaker, these are needs what is called storm water drainage. Mr Speaker, I the issues that we have to pay attention to, we have to have been saying this for long in this Parliament that we keep an eye on them. have what is called a spatial plan that shows where we could be taking developments of this country. I can see The other issue is in relation to land Mr Speaker. We are that developments still continue to be distributed along grateful for the budget allocation, but for you to develop tribal lines, where it would be said the headquarters of the livelihood of people, you have to give them land. A this area is in such and such a village. These are things chunk of funds should be allocated to Ministry of Land that were done when tribal lines were drawn, whereby Management, Water and Sanitation Services. On issues the numbers of people were not considered much, and that people who are in the waiting list are complaining this really causes concern Mr Speaker. If I may give and you take a look at Letlhakane village for instance, an example of why I am saying that, if you could take everybody migrated there because they are looking at Letlhakane village, its population is higher than that the direction of developments and the economy. of many headquarters; it is higher than Tsabong and Masunga headquarters. If you go to smaller villages like I sometimes tell people that a square metre of our Boteti constituency is richer than the whole village in other Masunga, because it is a headquarters, you will discover constituencies. I am only talking about a square metre, that all developments are there. that it is richer in terms of its value. When you value it, When you get to villages like Kgalagadi and Gantsi, it is more valued than other villages, but you will notice that developments have been implemented in those Gantsi has a population of about 6 000 people while villages. That is why Batswana are migrating there, it Letlhakane has around 40 000 but because Letlhakane is evident that as the Headquarters of Boteti, Letlhakane is a sub, it is quite a struggle to implement developments village requires as lot of things hastily. there. This is not right Mr Speaker. Since Minister Matsheka is saying that we should stand up and do Still on issues that concerns Ministry of Land things that we are not used to, this is the time for us Management, Water and Sanitation Services, I would to do away with how we have been doing things in the like to ask the Minister to make a development in which past, whereby we implemented developments along the Shashe supplies Boteti Constituency with water. It is tribal lines. Areas which are said to be headquarters of only 200 kilometres to get to the Boteti Headquarters districts and so forth, this is a concern because a lot of that is Letlhakane, but there are some villages along that people end up suffering only because their areas are not area …(Interruptions)… it can be supplied there. said to be headquarters. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I am trying Mr Speaker, villages like Letlhakane, Bobonong, to raise my hand to ask for clarification but you are not Mmadinare, Nata, Shoshong and Mahalapye are responding. overwhelmed because they were not fortunate enough to MR LELATISITSWE: When you take Boteti be considered as headquarters. We have to pay attention constituency, we are grateful for some of the to these things. developments that we are seeing… When packages of developments are sent to these HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of elucidation. villages, they stop at their headquarters even though a lot of people are found at the sub or rural areas. We have MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. village with the expectation to find jobs. They have now resorted to being thieves, rapists and other shocking MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, he is not things in this constituency. That is why I am saying here. that time has come for a serious law to be formulated, a law which stipulates that big companies should do HONOURABLE MEMBER: How does this thing something meaningful or noticeable in the community. work? Things like building schools, construction of internal roads, storm water drainage and sewage reticulation. All HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. these things are not there at Letlhakane but this is where MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, are you the cream is. Every day when you open newspapers, you there? Honourable Modukanele? I can see you but I will come across headlines saying that Karowe/Lucara cannot hear you. has produced big diamonds but when you look at the community around that area, it is a concern sir. That is HONOURABLE MEMBER: Unmute comrade, why I am saying that Minister of Finance and Economic unmute. Development should seriously pay attention to these things and bear in mind that they are some of the things HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. that can develop the economy, when you develop a HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. place that is already the cream of the economy. When you arrive in Letlhakane, you can see that that village MR SPEAKER: Is technology failing you? is fluid, it has money and it is only that there is lack of developments from the Government. MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, should I proceed? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification MR SPEAKER: Just wait a minute, we also have Honourable Member. Honourable Kekgonegile, and maybe he will manage. MR LELATISITSWE: Yes Honourable, I yield. MR LELATISITSWE: Yes sir, I yield for him. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele! MR KEKGONEGILE: Thank you. The clarification HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, he is not that I seek Honourable Sethomo, as you are talking raising his hand. about the worth of a square metre at Letlhakane, what do you think should be done for it to develop? Should MR LELATISITSWE: No Healy. Boteti be given royalty or are you saying a certain MR SPEAKER: I am the one who is looking at the… percentage of the worth of Letlhakane or Boteti should (Inaudible)…here, Honourable Modukanele has long develop Boteti? What is it that you are saying? raised his hand and he struggled to … so that we hear MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable. why he is raising his hand. Everyone in my constituency is talking about the point HONOURABLE MEMBER: Modukanele is that you just raised, that for many years, developments struggling. of this country have been put in the same bucket, but when you look at constituencies which are closer to the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Modukanele is not here, mine, we are the ones who often experience challenges. he just pressed the key but he is not here Mr Speaker. So we are pleading that maybe this Corporate Social Investment (CSI) should have a law which stipulates ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL that when a company operates there, a certain percentage GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT of its budget should be used to do something in that (MR MODUKANELE): Mr Speaker, let him proceed community Mr Speaker, the budget of those mines is my hand is not up. billions. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Really!

Right now vehicles are being stuck in Letlhakane and HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, elucidation. other things are happening there, this is so because a lot of these buses and trucks are in that village. There is MR SPEAKER: Then you must get off from this thing. high crime rate because a lot of people migrated to this We will give way to Honourable Healy.

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MR LELATISITSWE: Yes Mr Speaker. I have yielded. cost of plots is very high because people have realised that this is where the economy … HONOURABLE MEMBER: put those hands down. MR SPEAKER: We have a hand Honourable Minister, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you refusing to from somebody I do not recognise. It is …(Inaudible)… yield for me? I do not know what that is.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you very HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is me Mr Speaker. much Mr Speaker. Thank you Honourable Sethomo. Honourable, you would be glad to know that I intend MR SPEAKER: Who are you? to bring in the CSI Motion that you have been talking about, but I want to know what is your take when you MR LELATISITSWE: It is Molebatsi. visualise that Johannesburg city has so many industries MR SPEAKER: Who are you? and jobs that are being sustained by the mines similar to the mines which are found at Boteti and Jwaneng, MR LELATISITSWE: Molebatsi. but here we are struggling with those jobs. What do you think should be done looking at the industry that MR SPEAKER: Can you …(Inaudible)…properly? supports mining and the downstream activities? How come your name is not written properly? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Molebatsi Molebatsi. MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable Member. I once talked to Special Economic Zone (SEZ) MR SPEAKER: Alright, but here they have captured officials and told them that Letlhakane on its own is a something totally different. SEZ for diamonds, so I am wondering why you keep MR LELATISITSWE: You are wasting my time. going back and forth without allowing Government to build roads and carry out other developments. The MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, yes, go ahead. private sector will get involved in developing the constituency. Those guys from SEZs, who were in ASSISTANT MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR MOLEBATSI): Letlhakane, appreciated… When you consider the issue Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me add on to what he was of farming, there are SEZs which are already equipped. saying though he is saying I am wasting his time. I am For example, famers at Kaka and Sandveld need gravel standing on a point of elucidation. Let me add on to what roads prepared and electricity installed, either solar or he was saying and commend him for raising two points grid so that those farmers can employ people for Boteti which need to be augmented. Developments are done area to be sustainable. on the basis that an area is a headquarters. He used the Tourism; you can visit Central Kalahari Game Reserve example of Mmadinare. Mmadinare is a huge village (CKGR). People think CKGR is not in Boteti. CKGR which has nothing. I am not saying there is anything is part of Boteti. When you go there, you will realise wrong with developing other villages. Then you find a that we need to give Batswana lodges inside CKGR to village like Morwamosu with internal roads and lights become part of that thing. They have to develop and whereas where the population is high there is nothing. create jobs. They can partner with the Whites who have We need to correct this and ensure equal distribution of been allocated plots there. That is what we always say. resources. I believe these can boost Honourable Matsheka’s next HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you saying Budget so that we no longer suffer as we would have Morwamosu? more streams. Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) would be informed that, we are MR MOLEBATSI: The next one is about companies building roads and so on. The private sector can do which are awarded big tenders in our country. We whatever it can manage to do there. should have a corporal social responsibility law. BCL has constructed a mine in Mmadinare, there is nothing, One of the disadvantages of being in that area is that, they left pollution. We have not benefitted anything there is no sewage. There are no internal roads. All these from it. We have Voice of America at Mmadinare. Huge things are not there but appetite of building business at dams have been built at Mmadinare costing billions, yet Letlhakane is high. It is one of the villages where the we are still reeling in poverty. Thank you.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: You will debate. MS MANAKE: Elucidation. Thank you Mr Speaker. You are debating very well Honourable Lelatisitswe. MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much. It is quite We are also concerned about the issue of payments touching especially for some of us who come from big in our ministry. Right now the farmers and suppliers villages which are subs. It is so touching. I share your sentiments. have not been paid because officers want to work overtime. Honourable Matsheka should assist us in this Let me thank Honourable Matsheka because in his matter because he has released funds. The Minister has Budget Speech, he urged civil servants to be productive released funds and we are also saying people should be in their work. I must indicate that this is a cause for paid. People are not paid, we need serious productivity concern. People fail to understand that when you are to move forward. Thank you Mr Speaker. seated in Government, Batswana suffer when they are supposed to be paid after supplying Government. The MR SPEAKER: There is another hand, I am not sure President mentioned last time that payment will be done what this is. There is a name here captured as Mmolao, quickly. They are failing. People constantly knock on the only person with a name will be Molao. Do we have our offices because they have long supplied and when Molao asking for the floor? you ask, there is always an explanation yet the supplier sometimes would have borrowed funds. If you are a HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is sleeping. small man and dealing with Government, by the time you are paid, you would have lost and left with nothing MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR to save. That is killing business. Paying people in MOLAO): Mr Speaker, I do not know who Mmolao is. Government is quite difficult. There are always stories. MR SPEAKER: They have misspelled. Honourable Matsheka, since these things fall under your ministry, we must do something about them as soon as HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, are we not possible. Maybe you can make it a point to have all scared of COVID? these paying officers or accountants given 24 months’ contracts. Someone came to my office recently and MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, allow me to debate today. I said, “Honourable Member, now they are just paying will raise my hand. their friends and they skip us. We are suffering.” So HONOURABLE MEMBER: My hand is up Mr Honourable Matsheka needs to look into these issues. Speaker. Mr Speaker, it is time for a COVID break. These are some of the things which lead to people losing confidence in Government. They lose confidence MR SPEAKER: Unfortunately, I am not so scared of because of one person sitting in an office not taking COVID when you are not here but we must take a health any action. Our efforts are thwarted by the fact that we break. When we come back, from what I have said, I are highly indebted and nothing is being done. If these want somebody from the opposition to follow in the things were done by members of the BDP Executive, the debate. I want to take fairness across the House. So, I blame apportioned will be rightly placed. Mr Speaker, will need somebody from the opposition. we are very concerned about these things. HONOURABLE MEMBER: They are not yet ready, MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)…Honourable Manake, they are still thinking of how they can insult us Mr what, is it on? Speaker.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL HONOURABLE MEMBER: Reatile, Reatile… DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS (inaudible)… MANAKE): Thank you Mr Speaker. I want to elucidate on the issue of payments. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Again they approve this Budget Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister on the floor, Honourable Lelatisitswe… HONOURABLE MEMBER: I am not ready Mr Speaker. MR LELATISITSWE: I yield Sir. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr MR SPEAKER: Go ahead. Speaker.

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MR SPEAKER: No! Honourable Reatile has raised his saying this Mr Speaker because the nation is listening to hand, so I will…(inaudible)… the floor when we come us, we are not supposed to entertain things that are said back. by members like Honourable Molao, he asked me if I am promising that I am not going to insult them. I do not HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. insult people Mr Speaker. Members of Opposition do MR MOTSAMAI: Point of order. Mr Speaker, as not insult people but expose hidden things. By so doing, Opposition Whip, I must advise when we are out of you claim that they insult you. Thank you. order. Honourable Molao is wrong to say members of MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Motsamai. Opposition are still preparing themselves so that they I think we should keep order in the House, and we can insult them. should never take it upon ourselves that we can run the HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are going to insult House concurrently. That I think we should be clear on. us. I particularly have no intention of running the House concurrently with anybody. We can obviously advice MR MOTSAMAI: That statement is wrong Mr each other on points of order and something strictly Speaker. It is the highest degree of greed. It is wrong. out of order, but the decorum of the House, I will insist should be maintained. When we come back Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you promising that Minister Lelatisitswe, we will not deceive you. Are we you will not insult us? together? Just come back in time and we will deal with MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, put ... your few minutes which are left.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, I heard you. MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I still have MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Let us go for a some time. break for 30 minutes.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Are you promising that PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 4:00 P.M. FOR you will not insult us Honourable Motsamai? APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES

MR MOTSAMAI: On a serious note ... PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 4:30 P.M.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Kapinga MR SPEAKER: I am trying to check the quorum. was been insulting us a while ago. You should also go The hands which are up, I am not sure whether it is and drink warm water Honourable Motsamai. because they never dropped. I can understand the hand of Honourable Lelatisitswe because he was on the floor. MR KAPINGA: When we tell you the truth, you deem I thought Honourable Molao and Honourable Molebatsi it as insults. we are done with them. I do not know why others are raising their hands. MR SPEAKER: I only allowed Honourable Motsamai, nobody else. MR MOATLHODI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am standing on a point of procedure, you will correct me. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I still have The procedure of this country Honourable Speaker some time. is that, be it minerals or whatever any other resource MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai! Mute which the country discovers and mine through the taxes everybody else, except Honourable Motsamai. collected from this nation, it is a joint venture. I will give an example of Shashe dam. After digging it, it started MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, I was saying, on a supplying Selebi Phikwe with water so that Selebi serious note, we are not supposed to address each other Phikwe can be constructed; it also supplied Francistown like that. If a Member says that Members of Opposition with water and Francistown was also constructed. are not prepared to insult them and continues to stress Additionally, it supplied North East with water. After it while I am talking to you, that shows a higher level all that Honourable Speaker, this country was covered. of contempt and to despise the Speaker, even though he So today, are we saying the diamonds that we have at has been appointed and deserves to be respected. I am Letlhakane belongs to the people of Letlhakane alone?

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Are we not dividing this nation by doing that Honourable to make a clarification but on account of time, let me Speaker? Moreover, we must tell that which is true. allow him to conclude. Honourable Lelatisitswe must withdraw this statement and the statement that Morwamosu village is developed, MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Mokwena. where did that take place? Please, let us state the truth MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Honourable Members. Please! Thank you Mr Speaker. Speaker. Thank you for listening to us all, you have MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members. relayed my issue exactly the way I said it. I think Honourable Moatlhodi, you have misunderstood Mokhurutshe Pono Moatlhodi, we will give you a proper the argument by Honourable Lelatisitswe. He has welcome to the Botswana Democratic Party. I think we amplified the notes by the Honourable Member for will do that and give you a proper formal welcome. Mmadinare Molebatsi Molebatsi. The argument; and they will correct me if I am wrong, is that, because Mr Speaker, I thank Honourable Dr Matsheka for they are so close to the facilities which are producing making education a priority amidst the shortage of the wealth of this country, is it proper that we should funds. I want to indicate to the Ministry of Basic see developments in Johannesburg, everywhere else using that wealth and they get nothing? Should there Education that the issue I mentioned of huge relocation not be a way of looking at this problem and probably of people to Letlhakane village resulted in schools come with a law or social responsibility by those who being full. Schools are full to capacity, social distancing are mainly residing in Boteti area, so that a little bit of is impossible for schools at Letlhakane. We need extra what comes out can benefit the people in Boteti area two primary schools in that village. That village is the in Letlhakane. I thought that was his argument; never one which… that residents of Tsabong should not get anything. I do MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Freeze the clock. not think they argue that, because the law as you say Honourable Ramogapi, where is your jacket, Palapye Honourable Moatlhodi, is quite clear. They have agreed resident? Decorum! Continue Honourable Minister. that the minerals for this country belong to Batswana. His argument is that, should we not have shares at the MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I thank mine, instead of remaining with dust. That is how I the Minister for allocating the largest share of the budget understood it. Maybe if I am wrong, the Honourable to Ministry of Basic Education. Let me indicate that Minister is still having the floor, he could amplify. recently when I was visiting the constituency, teachers showed that there is a huge shortage of classrooms in I see the hand of Honourable Moswaane and Honourable the entire constituency more especially at Letlhakane. Morwaeng. Honourable Moswaane, what is your hand That is the major concern. Even the Council indicated up for? that there is need for two primary schools in that village, MR MOSWAANE: Mr Speaker, I want to address it has grown in huge numbers within a short period of the point by Honourable Lelatisitswe on a point of time. clarification. I do not know if you will allow me To further emphasise our issues Mr Speaker, the other concerning... issue which is of concern is that we implore that funds MR SPEAKER: Let us ask him, but he must check should be allocated to land board so that people can his time. Honourable Minister, there is a point of be allocated land. There is no way you can develop a clarification. Motswana without allocating him/her land. People have shown keen interest that they have appetite to do things MR LELATISITSWE: Mr Speaker, I have run out of in villages so the Minister of Lands should deploy Land time, let me conclude. Allow me to... officers from Serowe to assist at Letlhakane. After the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, we heard you. board sits, people should be given certificates or get a We have Honourable Morwaeng. What is your hand up response. It takes a long time because there is only one for Minister? officer and there are so many pending cases. We have a lot of squatters of churches and the general population MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL at that constituency. So this calls for fund allocation so AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC that people can be assisted and land board should sit ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): I wanted regularly to try to allocate land to people so that in future,

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they too can contribute into this bucket of developments equity, not equality, ‘equity’ that there should be fair of Botswana. A person who can contribute is the one distribution of developments looking at the population who has a business or is working or has any source of and the scope of the area. So I am surprised today. Is income. So these issues need to be seriously addressed. that the confession which Honourable Motsamai talked about? They are now confessing… Let us indicate that the Ministry of Investment Trade and Industry should also view this constituency as an HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr area which can develop the country. They should not Speaker. perceive it as Boteti region. They should scrutinise the things which are there and carry out assessments at DR GOBOTSWANG: So, the other issue is that… Letlhakane village as the Ministry of Investment Trade MR RAMOGAPI: On a point of procedure. Thank you and Industry. Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, we requested that the watch In conclusion Mr Speaker, all Accounting Officers have should be visible on the screen, but they are showing it a spatial plan so I wonder why they ignore it, mislead and removing it. This is not good for us as Honourable Ministers and do not give them that spatial plan to Members to be able to monitor our time properly. deliver projects through it. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Unfortunately, I think you are right, the explanation I got was that, it cannot be permanently MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable shown because it blocks other Members; one or two Minister. Honourable Members, what I said before other Members. So they will keep it on after every five we went for health break, was that in order to run the minutes, showing you so that you know your time is house fairly, I would want to pick the numbers 1:2, running down. Until they can configure something else, and therefore if possible, I would have wanted to give that is the best that they can do for now. Thank you the chance to the member of the opposition. It is not Honourable Ramogapi. obligatory. I can see Honourable Dr Gobotswang, he will then be followed by Honourable Modukanele. DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. The other issue he raised which Honourable Manake also DR GOBOTSWANG (SEFHARE- emphasised upon is that they want to claim that public RAMOKGONAMI): Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me servants are not carrying out certain processes properly, also take this opportunity to comment on the speech presented by the Minister of Finance and Economic they are failing. If the Ministers of the country who Development. I want to commence with Honourable are given full responsibility of these ministries come Lelatisitswe’s conclusion or argument. I was surprised to verify the same thing we always complain about in Mr Speaker that a Minister of this country, who is in this Parliament, I am surprised, that is true confession. Cabinet spoke in that manner regarding their processes Honourable Members, this Parliament passed a clear after the duration the Botswana Democratic Party Public Service Act which displays actions to be taken has been ruling. He seems surprised by some of the against any public servant who does not perform. The processes implemented by them as the Botswana processes and systems are there. Honourable Ministers, Democratic Party. the systems are there, you are failing. You have abdicated your responsibility, so you now want to blame Directors, Mr Speaker, we have always complained that there Permanent Secretaries (PS) and middle level Managers. is no equity when it comes to implementation of You are the ones failing because you have been given developments of the country, they are usually prominent full responsibilities. Mr Speaker, I suspect that they to certain tribes which the Constitution has given higher have something up their sleeves. In my view, they want status. You will also find that the headquarters are to deploy. They are planning to appoint members of the at those villages, that is the practice of the Botswana Botswana Democratic Party to these positions. That is Democratic Party and the Constitution. I am surprised my suspicion Mr Speaker. that the Minister can say that and validate what we have always complained about as the opposition that Honourable Members, let me get into the Budget that the Constitution should be amended so that all tribes has been put before us by Honourable Matsheka. I take can be equal. The issue is equity. When I first came to it that now the nation understand how he allocated the Parliament, I informed Parliament about the issue of money. Now the next step will follow where we focus on

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each ministry. That is when we will delve deep into the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Boko, I see your hand. issues that affect our constituencies. I will be focusing a lot on whether the Radisele-Pilikwe Road will be MR BOKO: Point of procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. included. I will be looking at you Honourable Mmusi I realise that there is a problem Mr Speaker, we may to see if the Ramokgonami Police Station is included. have agreed that we should virtually indicate when we I will be looking at you Honourable Lelatisitswe to see want to speak. It has made me realise that somehow Mr if the Mokobeng Clinic is included. That is where I will Speaker it often confuses you there, because you end up be looking at you. pointing to someone just because you heard their voice, contrary to what was said earlier on when you said, HONOURABLE MEMBER: We have not included “no matter how someone shouts, you are not going to those, they did not vote properly. point at them. You are going to check if they have raised their hand virtually.” Honourable Mmolotsi, I realised DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, the way this Budget that he caught your attention when he said “procedure was presented... (Interruption)…the Government seems Mr Speaker”. I am saying this because you said to him, to have failed to realise one thing, which I can realise, “okay procedure” to indicate that you were listening to that we are at war, the world is at war. A war we have what he said as opposed to seeing his hand. So I am never been involved in, that has taken the lives that saying this is a bit confusing for us because really raising no war has ever taken. We are at war and even the hands virtually is even confusing. I think when someone procedures indicate that we are at war, there are things just says, ‘standing on procedure’ is much better than like the State of Public Emergency, curfew, which raising a hand. I thought maybe we can look into it. I do we used to hear about in other countries. We were on not know if it is an issue we can discuss today or we will lockdown... talk about it at the General Assembly. It seems like there MR MMOLOTSI: Point of procedure. Thank you Mr is a bit of a problem. Thank you Mr Speaker. Speaker. Mr Speaker, there was Honourable Molao who MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Boko, we interfered in the issue and explained that Honourable will take it one more time, but the reason I called on Gobotswang’s projects were not included because Honourable Mmolotsi is because not only did I hear his they did not vote properly. I think this statement can voice, I saw him on the screen, so I was not confused. cause friction on the nation, in that it seems like for developments to be implemented in a certain area, people MR BOKO: Thank you Mr Speaker. have to vote in a certain way. Let me say Mr Speaker, he is out of line and he needs to be reprimanded. DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me say Honourable Minister of Finance should refrain from MR SPEAKER: I could not agree with you more, issues of World Bank, IMF, Gross Domestic Product I thought with that word he is provoking him... (GDP) growth, balancing the budget and Budget (Inaudible)… he did not hear it, but you really cannot Deficit, when you are in the middle of a crisis like this say that on national television. there is no time for those issues. In the past we have had an economy that was growing immensely, but it has MR MOLAO: No Mr Speaker, this one always thinks failed to eradicate the challenges we are facing at the of being recruited at the Voice, ignore him. moment. The challenges of unemployment, poverty, the MR SPEAKER: You are right Honourable Mmolotsi, differences between the rich and poor, yet the economy with your observation. was still flourishing. We have had budget surpluses in the past, we had a surplus of funds in the past, but we DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker, I was have failed to eradicate these challenges. Even at the still explaining how we are at war, which is COVID-19. moment, we are facing those challenges. What I am When we are at war like right now, most of the saying is that it is surprising that at the moment as we challenges we have Mr Speaker, you will find that the are in a crisis fighting an enemy we cannot see which is Budget which is used for this war we are in…and even COVID-19, our Honourable Minister who has his own the budget could be indicating the kind of war we are in. soldiers and police officers has been allocated a lot of We should not be talking about things like World Bank, money like this. You can just see that we are not in line International Monetary Fund (IMF) at the moment like with the situation we are in, we have not managed to we are still... focus on what our main problem is at the moment. Our

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main challenge is the fight against COVID-19, so even are waiting for vaccines from South Africa, they said our budget was supposed to indicate that most of the they will help us. They should be honest, so that we can money will go into tackling the challenges that have know what situation we are in here. been presented by COVID-19. That is where we were supposed to be going Honourable Members. Let us The other issue is that as a nation, we could have joined consider that…first let me thank Honourable Dr Never the race of hunting for the vaccine. Why not? We Tshabang and Honourable Aubrey Lesaso, that when have the Botswana Vaccine Institute (BVI), Botswana they tested positive for the virus they came out and Institute for Technology Research and Innovation said it in public, as leaders, saying they tested positive (BITRI) and the Sir Ketumile Medical School. Why are for the virus. I commend you Honourable Members. we not in the race together with our traditional doctors? Honourable Members, because we do not need the Why are we not in the race to find the vaccine? It is lack issue of stigma, whereby when one has tested positive of political leadership and political will. You have no for the virus they are discriminated. This virus does not intentions, you are sleeping. That is the situation that we discriminate, it does not choose whether you are rich find ourselves in. or poor, young or old. We cannot be the ones who have When it comes to the economy, the ramifications of a challenge that when we contact the virus we keep COVID are massive, and we all know them. This Budget it a secret. I want to encourage Honourable Members could be focusing on the challenges that Batswana are who are still reluctant of coming out whereas there are faced with. Batswana have lost jobs. Some have been rumours that they might have the virus, that Honourable forced to go on leave, there are conflicts in households. Members go public so that people can hear and believe, The emotions of Batswana are in turmoil, they are because they can believe you if you speak, and speak of depressed. People have lost their houses because they how the virus is dangerous, please! We cannot defeat are not able to pay mortgages. This is what we could stigma by all this secrecy around a flu that is very fatal. have focused on and see how we could be of assistance That is the issue. to them, rather than having a usual budget, being made Honourable Members, COVID-19 has affected our up of similar paragraphs. health and economy. We have had things like the Some people have even committed suicide because State of Emergency, a lot of money was used. I still they were depressed. Families are under stress. What remember the P2.4 billion that was said it was needed is the Budget saying because right now we could be to purchase all the things that were needed to fight talking about what to do when emotions are in that the virus. We did not expect that there was not going state, where are Social Workers and Psychologists, to be challenges of ventilators, testing kits, Personal how are they going to be assisted? That is not included. Protective Equipment (PPEs). Right now we are in a There is another shocking role of partners. I served the crisis, we cannot hear how the P2.4 billion was used Mr Government under the Ministry of Health, I know what Speaker. That is the issue we are dealing with. At the the role of the World Health Organisation (WHO) and moment Honourable Members we need vaccines, we the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) are, it need the vaccine like yesterday. A country that is said is not to implement Government programmes. What to be an upper middle income country and we are in a is African Comprehensive HIV/AIDS Partnerships situation where we do not have a programme of when (ACHAP) doing? What is the role of ACHAP in all the vaccine will be available, what type it is, and how it these things? How is ACHAP involved? What is its is going to be administered. No Honourable Members! role in the implementation because it has to support the This Government has abdicated its responsibility and Government? This is extreme chaos. we are going to hold you responsible for the lives of Batswana. I am saying the issue is not money, it is the Batswana are facing challenges. Some are facing failure to plan. This is a problem of poor planning, that challenges in regard to paying rent or electricity. is why we are in this situation right now, and it is not When we are expecting the Government to come up an issue of money. We want to know, Minister should with programmes that will help people, now they are have just said it and tell us exactly when the vaccine rather coming up with alarming taxes. Just look at a will be available. If he is waiting for the vaccine that His Government which is not ashamed to say they are going Excellency Ramaphosa, the President of South Africa to go back to the Plastic Levy before telling Batswana was talking about, he should tell the nation that, no we what happened to the previous Plastic Levy funds.

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MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, there is have to increase the income. You cannot just increase a hand from the Leader of the House. the VAT when it is not in line with the income of the people. Just look at these people who are shameless, HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR talking about levies whilst we are waiting for them to TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker. I am seeking explain to us what happened to the National Petroleum clarification from the Honourable Member. Fund (NPF). We need answers, Minister of Finance. MR SPEAKER: Dr Gobotswang, it is your call. You cannot come up with levies, yet some levies were used up and you have not told us how those funds were MR GOBOTSWANG: Yes, I will give him 30 seconds utilised. You must account for the NPF. Mr Speaker. The way Batswana are being made to pay tax, they MR SPEAKER: …(Laughter!)… are already suffering because of COVID and its ramifications, so this is the same as a father searching MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Dr. It is more than for monies in the pockets of his deceased child. Why enough. Since when you started you said at the sectoral not tax the rich? Why are the taxes not dealing with the debates you will enquire about the roads in your rich people that I am seeing here? I can see some of constituency, now you are saying the budget should not them here who do tenders. When one buys a Mercedes have focused on anything else, rather it should have Benz or a Discovery, Government has to put her tooth focused only on COVID. That is now confusing me. Dr in there, unless you are going to use that Mercedes Benz Gobotswang is your budget limitless or it does have a as a taxi. When you go to Norway, the taxis there are limit? I thank you. Mercedes Benz or BMW. Big television screens, flat screens, let the Government bite there. Top of the range DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, I thank you. What I or whatever, the Government has to bite there, instead am talking about is, what is it that we consider a priority of making the poor pay. I know some are going to say right now? I am not saying we should only focus on I am jealous of them. I am not jealous; I am just telling COVID, I am saying there are some other problems we the truth. are going to face emanating from COVID. We have to focus on the fact that COVID has given birth to other Honourable Members, there is an issue of corruption. problems and we have to focus on them. This budget has COVID found corruption having spread in Botswana. to show that it recognises the fact that other challenges When COVID came, things became worse. We shall were birthed by COVID, because you cannot tell me that wait to see whether corruption is going to be fought we are going to buy books or whatever. We shall address seriously. That cannot happen because if it were the that one. Right now, we are talking in broad terms that case, we would have been told how we were going to we believe the budget could be focusing on this. I am reform the oversight institutions. The Ombudsman saying it could have been guided by COVID because it should have teeth. We should be talking about the Public is the biggest battle we are fighting. That is what I was Protector who has teeth. The Directorate of Corruption saying, Your Honour the Vice President. and Economic Crime (DCEC) should be removed from the Office of the President (OP). That is not happening Plastic Levy-Batswana want their money which they and you are saying you can fight corruption. No, you have always paid for the Plastic Levy. The Minister of cannot. You are going to continue bringing tadpoles Finance has to explain to us how those funds are going saying it is fish. The BDP is like someone bragging to to come back. A crime does not expire. He cannot come say they are a prolific hunter, but most of the time when with a new Plastic Levy before telling us how the funds people are expecting this hunter to come home with an for the previous Plastic Levy are going to be reimbursed. animal, they would come with a squirrel instead, saying, On this one Minister of Finance, do not respond to these “I am a hunter extraordinaire,” and the next day they deliberations without telling us how the Plastic Levy is would come back with the smallest bird, the Blue Wax going to be returned to Batswana. Bill (RrabiibiI). The person would continue saying, “I am a hunter of repute and I am a great hunter!” The Honourable Members have talked about the Value Bragging. This is similar to what the BDP does when Added Tax (VAT) that it is commensurate with the we talk about corruption. When it comes to corruption, income of the country. You cannot compare it with those you have failed because it has roots in you. You cannot in other countries. If you want the VAT to increase, you deal with corruption.

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I like the fact that the Minister of Finance spoke the services be stopped by one buck and one ram? As for truth that 37 per cent goes to waste. What I am failing to the funds, they use a lot funds. Mr Minister of Finance understand is that he is allowing so much funds to leak and Economic Development, you cannot be serious, out. For every P1 billion which is injected into a project, just lead by example, start with the President. Talk to P370 million vanishes. Then you make people pay tax him, talk to the President. Right now he is the only to make up for where you have made losses Minister President who still travels to other countries. Ever since of Finance. You are so cruel and you are not supposed the outbreak of COVID-19, we do not often hear that to do that. Efficiency value for money; the Honorable Presidents of other countries have visited Botswana. He Members talked about bucks and I also want to give a on the other hand can just travel to Mozambique, does testimony… he not know virtual meetings? The following day he takes a lot of people to escort him to Namibia. That is MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, waste. Real waste! SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Procedure. Thank you very much Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Saying that he is visiting Speaker. Is it procedural for Honourable Gobotswang to his friend. associate Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) Members DR GOBOTSWANG: Honourable Members, I of Parliament (MPs) or anyone who is in the government cannot conclude my debate without talking about with birds (Rabiibii)? Is that statement proper? Is it Integrated Support Programme for Arable Agriculture procedural for the Honourable Member to call people Development (ISPAAD). The transitional ISPAAD with names such as Rabiibii? Thank you Mr Speaker, I in which Honourable Manake is putting the blame on stand to be guided. public servants while her ministry actually confused MR SPEAKER: Honourable Rakgare, he is being public servants during this ploughing season. They are sarcastic according to my understanding, that you should releasing contradicting statements, they are the problem, not boast that you are a hunter while in actual fact you public servants are not the problem, they are the problem; have killed a small bird. He is saying that you should not decision making. On the issue of ISPAAD, they have try that. He is being sarcastic. In our Setswana culture, been saying that there is a new one, output based. Hey! when you address elders like that…(Interruption)… Why do you not just tell farmers that you are not going to plough for them next year and stop going back and forth HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, where are with English words such as reengineering, words which you? will not take you anywhere? Ipelegeng reengineering, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, I am ISPAAD reengineering. People are now just Botswana wondering that since you know Setswana better than Democratic Party (BDP) engineers and you cannot even I do, why do you not use examples from our side and know what they are engineering. do it in moderation? Maybe people are offended… (Inaudible)…we will take the whole time here. The 10 Decentralisation; it is said that districts should raise days allocated to the Second Reading is going to remain funds, but they are actually talking about rates. 10 days. If we are going to waste time debating like this, Honourable Members, for Councils to be able to raise when the 10 days elapses, the question will be put. So funds, they have to be independent, they have to have Honourable Members, be careful what you do. I hear powers. Mine royalties... you Honourable Rakgare. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Manake has her hand up. Let us see what Honourable Members, still on efficiency of cost benefit, it is all about. let me proceed to give a testimony for Ramokgonami. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL The president went there to donate a buck and a ram and DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MS he went there with three helicopters. We all know that MANAKE): Thank you Mr Speaker. I am asking for when a President goes on a trip, he goes with Ministers clarification from Honourable Gobotswang. and high officials. When he arrives at that district, the whole district stands on a standstill and they follow him MR SPEAKER: Dr Gobotswang, she is asking for while public services stops. Honourable Members, can clarification.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Do not yield for her, she given them powers? Give them powers so that they can is going to mess up your debate. be independent. We should have Executive Mayors and Executive Chairs, they should hire and fire, and that is MR SPEAKER: No, it is not your issue. when you will notice that they have reduced your burden DR GOBOTSWANG: Clarification, two seconds that you are carrying. If you can continue being selfish Honourable Manake! with everything as a government, you will have to go...

MS MANAKE: Clarification. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Doctor, Honourable Segokgo has his Honourable Gobotswang, you should just tell the truth. hand up. Honourable Segokgo, on what point? You are misleading the nation by saying that we are not MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND going to plough for them next year and we did not say COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): My point that this is output based, we said that we are amending, Mr Speaker is, I had forgotten to unmute, I would never we are transitioning, we are moving from one level to blame the technology. I wanted to rise on a point of the other. So those statements are misleading. clarification Mr Speaker...

The other thing that you are saying is that we are blaming MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)…Doctor? public servants, we are saying that peoples` payments should be processed because shops are closing. Subsidy DR GOBOTSWANG: There is no time if at all you are payments are not being paid on time and that is a seeking that clarification from me, let me wrap up, I am challenge. I supplemented the statement that was made sorry Honourable Minister. by Honourable Lelatisitswe about payments which are delayed even though funds are there and people have to Mr Speaker, I forgot one point under cost benefit be provided with services. Do not say that we are the analysis, how much we spend compared to the benefits problem, rather encourage productivity so that things derived. Honourable Mmusi also talked about it, storm can be done, as you have been saying. Do not mislead water drainage. Trenches have been constructed in our people by saying that we are blaming them, let us be respective constituencies, in my Constituency Sefhare, honest. Thank you Mr Speaker. Borotsi, Chadibe and Mokobeng for water drainage in these villages. Honourable Segokgo, those trenches DR GOBOTSWANG: Thank you Mr Speaker, thank have been filled up again. Funds have been injected into you Honourable Manake. Honourable Manake, the those projects, but we are not benefitting anything. This main thing is the systems and processes. Public servants is what we are saying that, what is the use of continuing implement the systems and processes that you have to talk without implementing, investing funds with no made, you have to come up with them so that they follow results? them. When they do not follow them, the Public Service Act is there for poor performance. Honourable Manake, As I am about to conclude, let me talk about Internship. do your job and stop blaming people. You should also Honourable Members, those of you who went up to tell farmers what you are saying about the ISPAAD tertiary level or know the process of tertiary schools Motion that we passed, that small scale farmers are are aware that Internship is part of training. When an going to use broadcasting method. I wat you to iron this individual finishes at university, be it a social worker, issue because they are waiting for you and they have economist or teacher, part of his or her training is to hopes that you are going to do it this time around. You go through internship. When they go for Internship or are now coming up with ISPAAD reengineering before you iron out the issue of broadcasting method. teaching practice, they are qualified. Nowadays, after graduation people go through internship. It is true, there I was still saying that districts should be give powers are posts which the Minister indicated that they want to so as to raise funds, for them to have powers and raise abolish. Are you abolishing them yet there are people funds, some levies have to be collected at the districts. who are qualified to take them up? Why not absorb them There should be a sharing formula, you cannot be in those posts and pay them? You have two options, if selfish with all the powers as a government, and you you continue with Internship, you have to pay Interns are even selfish with levies. After taking all the powers, sufficiently, we had proposed a minimum of P3 000. Pay you are now saying that districts should raise funds, Interns or pay unemployed graduates unemployment how are they going to raise funds while you have not allowance. They must be paid, otherwise we are going

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nowhere Honourable Members. In my view, Internship I have given the floor to Honourable Modukanele only. is a waste of time because you have failed to create jobs Mute everybody. for them and now you do not want to pay them. They must be absorbed and paid since posts are available. MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Recently I received a call from someone by the name …Silence… Bohutsana who is on Internship. Interns are under MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker… pressure because the expectation from their families is that when they finish, they would help provide for them. MR SPEAKER: Yes, I can hear you. I can see you on They are under immense pressure. Bohutsana called my screen. and said, “my parents’ house has collapsed due to heavy MR MODUKANELE: Okay. May I continue then Mr rains in Sefhare-Ramokgonami. I am therefore asking Speaker? for assistance.” I told her to contact social workers and the Councillor for assistance. Yesterday, she called and MR SPEAKER: Yes, please. told me that, “they helped by providing us with a tent. Now I have made a decision to take out P500 from MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker, I was shocked my allowance and at least build my family a room.” yesterday, at least Gobotswang is saying he is shocked Honourable Members, do you see the kind of problem today that last year this time, the Minister presented that we have forced these people into? the Budget Speech with all that we intended to do as The last thing I must mention is that we cannot fail to Government that we will try to do them. By that time, pay P1 500 for Old Age Pension. Otherwise some of us Dr Gobotswang, the Leader of the Opposition and and the likes of Honourable Molale should be excluded everybody else in this Parliament were present. No from being paid Old Age Pension because we should not one knew that two months down the road, we will be allow double-dipping...(Interruptions) … grappling with COVID-19. What shocks me the most is that, yesterday when I was listening, he said a lot HONOURABLE MEMBER: I would have been of things, coming up with a formula without factoring surprised. anywhere the issue of COVID. We listed the things that he had set out to do that he did not do. DR GOBOTSWANG: …(Inaudible)… in pension when I turn 65, why not give this to P530 to someone Mr Speaker, I want Batswana to take note of what some else and those who are under pensions can continue of us in this House are saying. I also remember that getting their high pensions. What is P530? Thank you during Winter Meeting, we said Batswana are abused, Mr Speaker. why lockdown, why the State of Emergency (SoE)? We tried to explain, the President tried to explain, the Vice ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL President also went around the country trying to explain GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT to Batswana about the current situation. Today the very (MR MODUKANELE): Thank you Mr Speaker. ones who refused that we put in prevention measures Compliments of the new season since this is my first are claiming innocence. I am saying, if there is anybody time to address you. responsible for the situation that we are in, it is them. I Let me start off by appreciating Honourable Matsheka do not agree with what Honourable Gobotswang said for presenting this year’s Budget. He has indicated that that if the COVID situation gets bad, they are going to he did it under difficult circumstances. If I may quote blame us, no, we are going to blame those that when we Mr Speaker with your permission. said let us prevent this situation before it gets bad, they refused. Mr Speaker, today I want to say, I find it very MR SPEAKER: Please do. irresponsible, reckless and unworthy of leadership. That is what I want to say Mr Speaker. MR MODUKANELE: Paragraph 12 of his statement he says… I had no intention of addressing the issue of COVID first, it is just that I was challenged by what Honourable HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker … Member who is also a fellow Motswapong was saying MR SPEAKER: Can the control please mute everybody; which is sometimes a misrepresentation of Batswapong.

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Mr Speaker, sometimes I am surprised when he cannot shows that it is the highest level of hypocrisy. Batswana ask the patrons because they are rightly placed to answer usually say, the Leader of the House through you Mr him. They can get very clear answers just close by. Speaker, there are those who act when everything has been done. We are currently doing everything possible Mr Speaker, let me move on, I will later address the to fight against this disease, some members here will issue of health as it is broad and is close to my heart want to take credit for that in future. Thank you for because of a number of reasons. Let me indicate that I that intervention. Thank you very much Honourable support… Member.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, there is a Let me proceed by saying Mr Speaker, the Minister hand from the Vice President (VP) and another hand talked about the issue of rationalisation of the public from Honourable Boko. service in his presentation. One of the members who HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR responded yesterday … TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Dr Gobotswang seek elucidation from the Honourable Member holding has his hand up. What is …(Inaudible)… Dr? the floor. DR GOBOTSWANG: It is on a point of procedure Mr MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, elucidation Speaker. sought. MR SPEAKER: Point of procedure, yes. MR MODUKANELE: Alright sir, I yield, it is given. MR TSOGWANE: Thank you very much Honourable DR GOBOTSWANG: Procedure. You will assist me, Minister. You have touched a very critical point. Perhaps Honourable Modukanele will mislead the nation. His I should present it in Setswana, you are quite right by statement insinuates that we are victorious. If you say being surprised by the statement by members of the others act when everything has been done, it means we opposition. Right now they want to blame the situation have conquered, that everything is back to normal. Mr that they see, instead of telling us how it started; action Speaker, these kinds of statements do not match our undertaken when fighting against COVID-19 and current situation. Mr Speaker, Honourable Modukanele how much effort was put in place compared to other might be sad for the rest of the day because of what I am countries. They just chipped in towards the end. Is saying but he must not mislead the nation. that not hypocrisy Honourable Member? We are yet to discuss these issues, we are not done. They are now MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Gobotswang, you will confused, they say something must have been done deceive me if you use Setswapong. Saying everything towards the end since people do not benefit from actions has been done does not necessarily mean that the that were undertaken. He claims that they are cost benefit whole process is over. I do not know how you interpret analysis, forgetting that they are opportunity costs which Setswana and Setswapong. Honourable Modukanele, occur when a project does not produce results. Those are what does the statement by your colleague mean? opportunity cost not cost benefit analysis. Thank you. MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker, Dr Gobotswang MR SPEAKER: We have another hand from with due respect, he is simply wasting my time with Honourable Boko. What is it Honourable Boko? issues that he understands. There is no where I mislead MR BOKO: No, Mr Speaker, I did not raise my hand. the nation. Those that mislead the nation are the ones Maybe it was a mistake. whom when we were in this Parliament last year during Winter Session towards the end or in December, I MR SPEAKER: Your hand is still up even as you talk. stand to be corrected, some of them said, why declare a lockdown at Okavango and Maun when COVID-19 has HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are raising your not spread there? I was shocked! I was wondering on hand Bigbig. my own if I really heard what the Honourable Members MR SPEAKER: Thank you. were saying? That was misleading the nation. He should be talking about that instead of the statement I made MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank today. If we really understand the mode of transmission you Leader of the House for that intervention. It clearly of this virus, none of us could say that. We start these

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things. They said that. That is why I said earlier on that, MR MOSWAANE: …(Inaudible)… we must say that which is truth in front of God. We must refrain from doing things haphazardly and be focused. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane, what are you raising your hand for? Allow me to proceed Mr Speaker, I have quite a number of points which I would like to address, but I am running MR MOSWAANE: I am out Mr Speaker, bear with me. out of time. Mr Speaker, I will rush through the issue of MR SPEAKER: Put your hand down! rationalisation of the public service; in short, I support what the Minister is saying. What we are looking for MR MODUKANELE: Thank you Mr Speaker. There and what we want is a lean and mean civil service in are areas that are similar to the road which I do not terms of service delivery. That is all what he is saying. think could be more than 20 km or 25 km, between He is not saying what was said yesterday Mr Speaker. Maunatlala, Mosweu and Mokokwana. It is important in terms of production site as it is used by small stock I will rush to paragraph 34 of the speech by the Minister farmers to travel to the production site. At the end of where he was talking about youth unemployment. I the day, I believe it may develop into farms which may have some issues through which I wish as the leadership produce more food. Mr Speaker, that is an example. of this nation, we could meet, be genuine and honest to ourselves, where we could seriously discuss them, I am also grateful because the Minister covered the issue where we come up with a shopping list for lack of a of port health in areas which he listed on paragraph 71. better word Mr Speaker… That said Mr Speaker, I want to go back to the point of Health which I said I wanted to explain further. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Hikuama has his hand up. Honourable Hikuama, on what point Mr Speaker, last year when I stood to respond to the sir? Budget Speech as it was my first time to do so in Parliament, I was a bit nervous, I said some words which MR HIKUAMA: On a point of clarification. I want to quote from the Hansard, with your permission MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member on the floor, Mr Speaker? Honourable Minister, there is a request for clarification. MR SPEAKER: Please do.

MR MODUKANELE: I do not yield Mr Speaker. MR MODUKANELE: Mr Speaker, I said “the time MR SPEAKER: Okay, continue. has come for hard choices to be made and prioritise only those programmes that resonate with the voter. We have MR MODUKANELE: Yes sir. Thank you Mr Speaker. to identify the shortest path to impact.” Mr Speaker, I Time is really not on my side, bear with me Honourable remember these words because in our current situation, Hikuama. I was addressing rationalisation and I will when I spoke these words last year, little did I know that move on with those few words. some day I will be saying times have come for us to make harder choices. I will quickly rush to the issue on paragraph 70 where the Minister was brief but such a long statement about The time has come for this Parliament to show road infrastructure. Efforts made by Government of responsibility, work together as leaders of this country Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) over the years is and take actions which will show our nation direction unparalleled starting with seven kilometres, for us to rather than dividing them. be talking about over 3 000 kilometres which exist. Let me point out that there are areas which going forward, I Mr Speaker, I was quite surprised that while dealing with would urge us to pay attention to especially accessibility such a serious pandemic, I personally made an effort to production areas in our country. There are areas where to cancel my meetings but some people went around it is completely… Honourable Moatlhodi addressed this the constituency I am representing holding meetings issue yesterday. I also thought to… bringing people. As we speak, greater Palapye area is the second in this country. This is irresponsible. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Modukanele, Honourable Moswaane is asking for something. Honourable I want to conclude and talk about health; at Lerala- Moswaane, what point? Maunatlala constituency, there are two things we need

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to address. There is total darkness at Lerala which is what Boteti has as far as that service is concerned; at supposed to be our capital city. Mr Speaker, if you go Ramotswa, at Honourable Letsholo’s constituency and there around 7 p.m you will not be able to walk around. so on. Let us look into these issues. It will put the gaps in front of all of us, which will help They are not showing the clock on the screen Mr us determine where there is completely nothing and Speaker, I do not know how much time I am left with. what kind of service delivery model do we put in place so that we close the gaps. This is what I am talking My point is what we need now, choices I am talking about Mr Speaker because at the constituency that I about is that we need an Integrated Health Service Plan am representing, we need the most, we are the lowest that will identify the gaps as we stand today to see how in terms of primary health care of some sort. I have we can close them and move forward. talked about it a lot, as there is a saying, moseka phofu The second point that I want to suggest is that going ya gaabo ga a swe lentswe (meaning, one must fight forward, of course I will discuss with Honourable impatiently for what rightfully belongs to him or her.) Dikoloti and Honourable Lelatisitswe, but for the benefit Mr Speaker, we are conscious of the situation we are in. of this House, I think we need a robust engagement with Honourable Dikoloti, if the situation improves, take the our communities and give them public health education plan, let the plan talk to you and let it inform you which with facts. I do not trust that some people are telling way to go. We are aware of the situation we are in, we people about things which will move us forward. cannot close our eyes and ears to that, but the truth is that the situation at Lerala-Maunatlala is exactly like I The third point I would suggest is that we need an am saying it is. essential health service package, so that we know that if I am at this facility if we say this is a primary health I want to also thank you through your ministry care facility, what do I expect, what are the services that Honourable Dikoloti that as we speak, you are making I can access. Mr Speaker, this can help us close the gaps an effort. At Maunatlala there is a clinic that will offer which are there. This Integrated Health Service Plan something better which you are planning to see how you which I believe, if I remember well, around 2010 or so, can develop it. I want to thank you for that. something was started along this line. Let me request I want to depart from Health; I have talked about that it should be revisited and reengineer it to address COVID-19 and National Health Insurance Fund. Let the current problems and see how we can close the me now talk about the Ministry of Local Government, gaps. At the end of the day, we should come up with Mr Speaker what more can we say if we are telling something we can call universal health package. the truth regarding ISPAAD (Integrated Support Mr Speaker, the other point that we stated in our Programme for Arable Agriculture Development), manifesto which I want to reiterate again is the issue Ipelegeng reengineering and all that? We indicated that of National Insurance Fund. It should be considered we are going to transform Ipelegeng. If Honourable because we have entered a stage where currently the Dr Gobotswang is not comfortable with the word diseases which are in this country are serious which an reengineering, let us say it in Setswana then; I was ordinary Motswana with just P2.00 or the little amount there when Honourable Molale said it in Parliament, he/she has cannot afford to be treated Mr Speaker. On I was there, even Honourable Dr Gobotswang was Page 39 of our manifesto, that is where it talks about the also there, ...(Inaudible)… and Honourable Members National Insurance Plan, so that is the point I wanted were there. He said, “we are going to try to improve to talk about. Mr Speaker, I think it will be remiss of Ipelegeng so that it can bring results, we are looking me if I conclude and fail to say anything and put the at the things that we can look at in future and say in record straight about issues pertaining to Honourable this year at Sefhare, Ramokgonami and Chadibe, this Molale’s ministry, which I am currently under. Perhaps is what was implemented with Ipelegeng.” This is what before I go there Mr Speaker, let me say this Integrated he was talking about and this is what is being done. So Health Service Plan can be able to identify the gaps. The if we continue to mislead the country and Batswana…, other thing it can assist us with is that it will literally only yesterday, it was just last week, some of the just take the whole plan of the country as far as health Honourable Members at Maunatlala and Ratholo, were is concerned and present it to us. It will inform us saying Ipelegeng should be discontinued. I looked at the

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Permanent Secretary (PS) in the eye right there, I said LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): to him PS, as we are speaking now people are working Thank you Mr Speaker. Before I move, we will remember at Ipelegeng and he said yes. I also knew that it is a that Honourable Modukanele is still remaining with fact. I then called one of the people from the Village some minutes, and I had my hand raised, I want to Development Committee (VDC) in one of the villages elucidate tomorrow. of Lerala-Maunatlala, and asked that Ipelegeng there… he said as I am speaking to you, I am with them at work With that said Mr Speaker, I request that this House do but there is talk that Ipelegeng should be discontinued. I now adjourn. Thank you. do not know where it is being discontinued. Question put and agreed to.

I want to indicate that the Decentralisation Policy that was The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6.08 p.m. until indicated yesterday that we have long talked about and Friday 5th February, 2021 at 9.00 a.m. there is nothing happening. No Honourable Members, let us tell the truth for once. Honourable Molale, the Minister responsible for Local Government…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are asking too much.

MR MODUKANELE: …he was at Gantsi...

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable... (Inaudible)… Honourable Modukanele, it is time up.

Honourable Members, let me remind you that you are on television (tv), as you keep on changing, some of you talking on phones, some of you drinking tea, you should realise that Batswana can see you, when you are turning in those chairs. So try to do the best, put your best foot forward because that picture will be televised and some of your colleagues will say ‘oh! you can see them. Even on that side, remember that we are on tv, and try to do the best you can in terms of decorum.

Honourable Members, it is now past 6.00 p.m. and I will call upon the Leader of the House to move a Motion of adjournment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)…

MR SPEAKER: I was thinking that as we partake, I want to see what happens if we vote in groups because the screen may not show all of us when we deal with the Ayes, everybody raises their hands in terms of virtual and then the Noes, they raise their hands in terms of the …(Inaudible)...

Honourable Leader of the House, it is now past six, may you please move a Motion of adjournment.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

Hansard No 201 33 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Motswakhumo, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

Hansard No 201 34