Roinn Cosanta. Bureau of Military History, 1913-21

Home , Denis McCullough, Tom Kettle

ROINN COSANTA.

BUREAU OF MILITARY HISTORY, 1913-21.

STATEMENT BY WITNESS.

DOCUMENT NO. W.S. 916

Witness Denis McCullough, 12 Oakley Road, Ranelagh, Dublin.

Identity.

Member of I.R.B. 1901 -; Member of Supreme Council of I.R.B. 1909 -

Subject.

Replies to Questionnaire prepared by Bureau on T.R.B. and other national organizations, 1900-1916.

Conditions, if any, Stipulated by Witness.

Nil

File No. S.62 Form B.S.M.2 lst 1. (a) Cumann-na-nGael Was formed on the 0ctober 1900, and the National Council on the 6th June, 1993.

(b) Were the two bodies separate and distinct, and what were their aims and objects?

with or and when? (c) Were you associated the former, both,

2. The Fianna Eireann was founded in Belfast by Bulmer Hobson in June, 1902.

(a) How was it organised, controlled and administered?

(b) Who were the officiers?

3. "The Resurrection of Hungary", Part 1, by Arthur Griffith was published on the 1st August, 1904.

(a) How soon after that date was the meeting held in St. Mary's Hall?

(b) How did the idea of the Dungannon Clubs arise, and what is the origin of the title?

(d) Where were the Headquarters and who were the executive and/or officiers?

4. The Sinn Fein League was formed in Dundalk in April, 1907.

(a) When did the previous meeting take place?

(b) Have you any recollection of the persons, or the nature of the discussions which took place?

(a) Why was the Sinn Fein League formed having regard to the existence of the "National Council"?

5. Bulmer Hobson is said to have been expelled from the I.R.B. because he advocated the admission of Redmond's nominees to the Volunteer Executive.

(a) Were you present at this particular meeting?

(b) If so, what actually took place?

6. The Military Council (comprising Pearse, ceannt, Plunkett, Clarke, McDermott) was appointed by the Supreme Council of the I.R.B. in February, 1915.

(a) What directions were given by the Supreme Council to the Mi1itary Council and what were the specific functions of the latter?

(b) Did the Supreme Council decide that there was to be a Rising? When was this to take place? Was the Military Council appointed, inter alis, for the purpose of preparing plans for the Rising? If so, were the plans submitted to the Supreme Council?

(c) Was the Military Council required to report back to the Supreme Council and did it do so? (d) What were the relations between the Military Council and the Supreme Council?

7. Joe Plunkett (a member of the Military Council), is said to have; gone to America in August or September, 19l5, with Plans for Rising for submission to the Revolutionary Committee of Clan na Gael.

(a) Was this visit discussed by the Supreme Council before his departure and subsequently on his return?

8. The disappearance of Connolly in January, 1916, is said to have been arranged by the Military Council or certa in members of it, in order to prevent him taking precipitate military action, or to come to some agreement with him.

Can you give any information in this connection?

9. It is said that Connolly was not appointed by the Supreme Council to the Military Council in February, l9l5, but that in actual fact, he was only co-opted a member some three weeks after his alleged disappearance, l.e. sometime in February 1916.

(a) Can you throw any light on this matter?

10. (a) Was Roger Casement a member of the I.R.B?

(b) If so, by whom, when, and to what Circle was he sworn in? As as the memory Serves, for my following are the answers to the set out questions in

the lest accompanying letter to me, the your of 25th Sept 1952

the identification, have For purpose I of numbered the & answers questions

The two bodies were quite separate distinct (1) (a) was as an Cumann no n Joederit founded open was nationalist separatist organization, It

the supported IRB Mary I.R.B. strongly by men were members Its Programme of C.G.O.N.Z. was propagandist &educational, largely through lechixes, speakers at public meetings etc. The national council was formed sub sequent to the publication Arthur of Griffith's "Resurrection Its purpose of Hungary" was to initiate, What became Knounas the Hungarian Policy-non-recognition the British parliaments of right to make Lans Ireland, and for British institutions of in Ireland where generally, Practicable, This

included the withdrawal Irish of 2

Parliamentary representation at Westminister believe I that it was intended that the

parliamentary members so Withdraw should form or be the nuclear a fulls time of national Council It was proposed to

elections on fight parliamentary (and Local) is this basis. Charles Dolan, Who

Lertrim British presented North the

was induced to his seal parliament, resign

it anew, on the abstentionist ticket & fight all the forces we could muster, although funds Ireland, were concentrated all parts from of election on Nr.Lertrim, we lost the miserably, the were in "middle But we of the ting" Went to America, a or two Charles Dolan year

this election as as I know, took no after for in national His brother, further Part affairs, James Dolan-afterwards to Parliamentary secretary

Y. the tree state Government Liam. Cosgrage, in first the 1918 won the Nr.Lertrim seat Fein in for Sinn election. 3

At the time of Dolans Charley resignation from the British Parliament, the Hungarian had some Policy gamed enthusiastic very supporters in maynooth, despite the strong the apposition then president maynooth, of of the Rev Dr.Manner, Dolans brother Charley the Rev, Sr.Dolan, one most enthusiastic was the of these clerics in maynooth it of young the was stated at time, and I believe it to be

true, that it was his influence, supported by his colleagues in maynooth, that influenced the British Dolan's Charley Resignation parliament. from

was a member excentive (B) I of the Belfast of no & I believe, acted as its Cumann Secretary of some time, for

Bulmer with Hobson, I Attended the annual Conventions the of Organization in Dublin, At one these I remember of very serious the differences arising, following Divorce in proceedings Paris between Major 4

John McBride Maude Gonne, an was attempt made, I believe the I.R.B. to have by Group John McBride as elected the vice-President organization & to of exclude Maud this Gonne from The women's office, Who had organization-migrant no Notkewnn, at delegates the convention, apposed this move

attempts were made to fiercely, "Nobble" Hobson on our arrival the at Mansion House myself, P.S. the by Dalys I.R.B. Bader in Dublin, where the Convention was being held by gurng ms vote "orders", to McBride Maud for against Gonne, we to these orders & refused accept eventually, it as and not to a appear possible get majority the for McBride motion, I believe a compromise was & reached both were made Nec-President, the debate on this I went the During matter, to a, Cigarette McBride me out foyer for followed & assured me that he was no move party to the on & his me to behalf waged as I vole, thought I right. treasured his friendship always afterwards. T.

I was also a member the national of council 5

what But do not remember in capacity, I but the in Dublin, attended meetings of body am conditions the time, not in the charging of Hobson did as how not clear to of why, although his did & was on with I strong get Griffiths, always that all the admirer, years fallowed, Supporter him confirmed personally Only my regard for & his qualities. for great

The was founded, controlled 2, (a) Fianna Erteann & administered Bulmer Hobson, with by Occasional like help from people myself, in giving history Language lessons, he also I believe its appointed officers The (B) I remember were Sean Monno Officers Kelly; Seamus Mullen & later Archie Heron Two and or three Whose others, names I Cannot remember

3. (a) The following year

(B) When Griffiths articles on The Resurrection Hungary of appeared in the united Irishman and Hobson & myself decided that we could more do no Charles Good with the C. Non Go in Belfast 6

3. Continued,

We on Hobson miniature, to start decided, Largely would have a new Which more organization, life the Support new & it, We would Vigour in Hungarian out an but new as a Means to end, Policy, separatist be from the movement must frankly & Our arms Our manifesto set Out Our start, plans that the volunteers The fact accordingly, of held their first a had (1782) century earlier, convention in Dungannon & issried their

declaration "that the famous only king, could make lords & commons Ireland, of

laws the name Dungannon for Ireland," Inspired

our new organization We this Club for paid Tribute to Hungarian Griffith's Policy time that an white, at the same declaring aim - all was our feral Irish Republic in the confused, light of a little perhaps sound Enough position, but present day the Political in the that them prevailed in the Conditions

country!

recreated as we had The small number 3 (C) now whose names are no importance members, of & I was Chairman Hobson was secretary Club & the executive, both the Belfast of of Clubs when this was formed, when Dungannon

were activated London & in Dublin, Glasgow, Som

Centres throughout Ireland, in Ulster Mostly the whole period their throughout of existence We were in in kept Belfast, busy First 7

Continued 3 c the Club, Business meetings Ordinary of in the our outdoor meeting for Arranging arrangements the & suburbs, making for city the publishing & subsequently Printing founding arranging for the "Republic", the of & & cartoons importantly for the articles, we could secure, to help few advertisements We also published it, pamphlets pay for nationalist & other on anti-recruiting Suitable Cartoons We reprinted Subjects, any these lampooned from the as postcards; paper, & attendance the Irish parliamentary Party

the R.I.C. & the British at Westminister; These Campaign. army recruiting pamphlets other & were sold to the Clubs & Posteards

small nationalist throughout the groups to & there, & some newsagents here County to our disposed Who were favourably

these The distribution kept of props Ganda; as they were distributer me & some helpers busy,

The helped to through the post, receipts

our other finance operations. & in our we also arranged lectures delates,

own & other both halls, for propaganda purpose & to money our help raise for needs, The late

James ID& Senator Larkin, Tom & some Johnson other Labour men at these & spoke us helped for 8

to attract 3 continued an andrence,

& Padrace Maurice One or two Colum, Joy

others think, including tom kettle, He (I may have come later) from Dublin, also spoke for us, In addition we also supplied speakers

for various occasions & functions, such as Manchester Martzer celebrations etc, mostly

throughout Ulster & adjacent Corentieo, and to Glasgow London.

discussed at our The subjects meetings

value Were Course national the of of firstly as an abstention St opposed to attendance policy at social Westminister, questions such as

the stay emigration; revival our of of industries & such like topies.

on the same lines Lectures were usually or on histoncal we did a little subjects,

at Irish the language classes, but the Gaelic

Leagare who could us people have helped

in this, a little us, in were of but any chary case were this doing work much letter in their own organization, of which us most were also members. of

3 Bulmer Hobson (D) & were the myself executive

officers throughout, we had various people as treasurers, at different time, some of these proved very unsatisfactory indeed So that control reverted with largely to us 9

continued 3 D

as committee With different people

assume members, at different I very few now them are alive of

(a) 4 The previous place a meeting took only

I few weeks earlier would within say a month

I remember a those who were (B) only few of present at either these One of meetings, was pat Lavelle (A solicitor who worked

with a form on the an other was Quays) Who lived Gogan, around Dunleary still believe is alive, I

the Discussion was on possibility mostly the & details a amalgamation possible of of two bodies, the personnel control the of of amalgamated a convention body, pending the & the "Republic" incorporation paper, of which was our with the organ, "Irish Peasant" which had or adopted been adopted the by Cumann Na n Gael

The Sinn was (C) Fein league a frankly

separatist completely organization, approving

all means to achieve while the of freedom, national Council had "The adopted king, lords Commons", as an immediate objective, In reality there was no between them difference, except of personnel 10

was not 5. Bulmer Hobson expelled

would I have the I.R.B. nor from approved

such expulsion, He resigned the of from bitterness Supreme Council, Because the of & Sean tom Clarke of Particularly of his actions over the MacDermott, after

admission Redmonds nominees of executive, it Would to the Volunteer have

been impossible him to work with them for that he I understand & Believe remained

at least some time, as chainman the for of the Centres I.R.B. Dublin Board of

Tom was a man Clarke, who a of very Loved & admixed mind, Hobson simple

immensely, When Consequently, Hobson

what was tom considered a he-trayal, guilty of

the was litter & rift very tom would not him or trust him forgive again.

Bulmer Hobson was the most single-minded

Knew nationalist I in time, He my to found it hard, however, work under orders,

as he had the Supremest still confidence (and has) in his own Judgement, a person of this temperament was bound to at get loggerheads, sooner or later, with those who were the activities the controlling I.R.B. of by methods which he not did understand & did not approve 11

6. I do not recollect that tom Clarke was

appvinted to the Council, I do military not was the that he think that he a member & fact in knew the when I saw him the nothing plans, of me in this opinion week Easter week, conforms preceding in direct explained narrative 6 (a) as I have my have a the Councilcouncil did decidedecide toto RisingRicing. supremesupreme called it might be Thethe circumstances in which have also the decision as I were set out with The the date related in narrative, my fixing of Council & time was left to the military I have this should been referred that presume at least to its Council or executive supreme to the Seer Sean MacDermott my the chairman (myself).

It never so & Treasures (Tom Clarke) was referred.

was the The Council appointed (B) military for all purpose plans & of making arrange the Ments deciding the best date for Rising, etc. & all matters taking charge of military in connection with it using all the contacts etc, the I.R.B. to so of dang

as stated above did not (C) report back They

Relations & (D) of complete trist. Confidence

All liaison food faith. through Leon

McDermott was to Spain I understood 7. Visit Joe Plunkett He also have Thence gone to to Germany. may that. do not remember His visit M.S.A. but I was Financed & I to Spain & Germany approved, IRB arranged the the Believe, through S.C. of 12

on have knowledge I 8. given my full main narrative this matter, in my own in mind I am nearly Satisfied, my member the that was a Connolly of almost its Council, from inception military his disappearance, & long before certainly the in to absence Prison during Owing my am too 1915, I not middle latter & part of matter or too reliable on this well informed know best ledge to the of my casement, 9. I.R.B. Roger into the sworn was never & relief, the a member never of & was therefore

organization

Denis McCullough

M F Comdt McCullough) Ryan (Denis

12th Dec 1953

Comd't. (M.F. Ryan) 12th Dec. 1953. Copy of Questionnaire sent to me with letter 25th Sept. 1952; Answers herewith:

1. (a) Cumann-na-Gael was formed on the 1st October, 1900, and the National Council on the 6th June, 1903.

(b) Were the two bodies separate and distinct, and what were their aims and objects?

2. The Fianna Eireann was founded in Belfast by Bulmer Hobson in June, 1902.

(a) How was it organised, controlled and administered?

(b) Who were the officers?

3. "The Resurrection of Hungary", Part 1, by Arthur Griffith was published on the 1st August, 1904.

(a) How soon after that date was the meeting held in St. Mary's Hail?

(b) How did the idea of the Dungannon Clubs arise, and what is the origin of the title?

(d) Where were the Headquarters and who were the executive and/or officers?

The Sinn fin League was formed in Dundalk in April, 4. 1907.

(a) When did the previous meeting take place?

(b) Have you any recollection of the persons, or the nature of the discussions which took place?

5. Bulmer Hobson is said to have been expelled from the I.R.B. because he advocated the admission of Redmond's nominees to the Volunteer Executive.

(a) Were you present at this particular meeting?

(b) If so, what actually took place?

6. The Military Council (comprising Pearse, Ceannt, Plunkett, Clarke, McDermott) was appointed by the Supreme Council of the I.R.B. in February, 1915.

(a) That directions were given by the Supreme Council to the Military Council. and what were the specific functions of the latter? 2.

(b) Did the Supreme Council decide that there was to be a Rising? When was this to take place? Was the Military Council appointed, inter alia, for the purpose of preparing plans for the Rising? If so, were the plans submitted to the Supreme Council?

(d) What were the relations between the Military Council and the Supreme Council?

7. Joe Plunkett ( a member of the Military Council) is said to have gone to America in August or September, 1915, with Plans for Rising for submission to the Revolutionary Committee of Clan na Gael.

(a) Was this visit discussed by the Supreme Council before his departure and subsequently on his return?

8. The disappearance of Connolly in January, 1916, is said to have been arranged by the Military Council or certain members of it, in order to prevent him taking precipitate military action, or to come to some agreement with him. Can you give any information in this connection?

9. It is said that Connolly was not appointed by the Supreme Council to the Military Council in February, 1915, but that in actual fact, he was only co-opted a member some three weeks after his alleged disappearance, i.e. sometime in February 1916.

(a) Can you throw any light on this matter?

10. (a) Was Roger Casement a member of the I.R.B.?

(b) If so, by whom, when, and to what Circle was he sworn in?. As far as my memory serves, the following are the answers to the questions set out in the list accompanying your letter to me of the 25th September 1952:

(For the purpose of identification I have numbered the questions and answers).

1. (a) The two bodies were quite separate and distinct.

Cumann na nGaedheal was founded as an open Nationalist/

Separatist organisation. It was strongly supported

by the I.R.B. and many I.R.B. men were members of

Cumann na nGeadheal. Its programme was largely

propagandist and education, through lectures, speakers

at public meetings etc. The National council was

formed subsequent to the publication of Arthur

Griffith's "Resurrection of Hungary". Its purpose

was to initiate what became known as the Hungarian

policy - non recognition of the British Parliament's

right to make laws for Ireland, and of British

institutions in Ireland generally, where practicable.

This included the withdrawal of Irish parliamentary

representation at Westminster. I believe it was

intended that the parliamentary members so withdrawn

should form or be the nucleus of a full and true

National Council. It was proposed to fight

parliamentary (and local) elections on this basis.

Charles Dolan, who represented North Leitrim in the

British Pailiament, was induced to resign his seat

and fight it anew on the abstentionist ticket.

Although all the forces and funds we could muster,

from all parts of Ireland, were concentrated on North

Leitrim, we lost the election miserably. But we 2.

were "in the middle of the ring". Charles Dolan went to America a. year or two after this election and,

as far as I know, took no further part in national

affairs. His brother, James Dolan, afterwards

Parliamentary Secretary to Liam T. Cosgrave in the

first Free State Government, won the North Leitrim

seat for Sinn fin in the 1918 election.

At the time of Charley Dolan's resignation from the

British Parliament the Hungarian policy had gained

some very enthusiastic supporters in Maynooth,

despite the strong opposition of the then President of

Maynooth, the Rev. Dr. Mannix. Charley Dolan's

brother, the Rev. Fr. Dolan, was one of the most

enthusiastic of these young clerics in Maynooth, and

it was stated at the time, and I believe it to be true,

that it was his influence, supported by his colleagues

in Maynooth, that influenced. Charley Dolan's resignation from the British Parliament.

(b) I was a member of the Belfast Executive of

Cumann in nGaedheal and, I believe, acted as its secretary for some time. With Bulmer Hobson

I attended the annual conventions of the organisation

in Dublin. At one of these I remember very serious differences arising. Following the divorce proceedings

in Paris between Major John MacBride and Maud Gonne, an attempt was made, I believe by the I.R.B. group, to have John MacBride elected as Vice President of the organisation and to exclude Maud Gonne from this office.

The women's organisation - Inghini na nEireann - who had delegates at the convention, opposed this move fiercely. Attempts were made to "nobble" Hobson 3.

and myself on our arrival at the Mansion House, where

the convention was being held, by P.T. Daly - the I.R.B. - leader in Dublin by giving us "orders" to vote for

MacBride and against Maud Gonne. We refused to

accept these "orders" and eventually, as it did not

appear possible to get a majority for the MacBride

motion, I believe a compromise was reached - both

were made Vice Presidents. During the debate on

this matter I went to the foyer for a. cigarette.

MacBride followed me out and assured me that he was

no party to the move on his behalf and urged me to vote

as I thought right. I treasured his friendship

always afterwards.

I was also a. member of the National Council

but do not remember in what capacity. I attended

meetings of the body in Dublin, but in the changing

conditions of the time am not clear as to how or why.

Although Hobson did not get on with Griffith,

I always did and was his strong supporter and admirer.

All the years that followed only confirmed my regard

for him personally and for his great qualities.

2. (a) The Fianna Eireann was founded, controlled and

administered by Bulmer Hobson, with occasional help

from people like myself in giving history and

language lessons. I believe he also appointed its

officers.

(b) The Fianna officers I remember were Seán

Kelly, Seamus Mallin and later Archie Heron, and two

or three others whose names I cannot remember. 4.

3. (a) The following year.

(b) When Griffith's articles on "The Resurrection of

Hungary" appeared in the United Irishman, and Hobson

and myself decided that we could do no more good with

the Cumann na nGaedheal clubs in Belfast, we decided,

largely on Hobson's initiative, to start a new

organisation which would have more life and vigour in

it. We would support the new Hungarian policy

as a means to an end, but our new movement must be

frankly separatist from the start. Our manifesto

set out our plans and our aims accordingly. The

fact that the Volunteers of a century earlier (1782)

had held their first convention in Dungannon,

and issued their famous declaration "that only

the King, Lords and Commons of Ireland could make

laws for Ireland", inspired the name Dungannon Club

for our new organisation. We thus paid tribute to

Griffith's Hungarian policy, while at the same time

declaring that an Irish Republic was our final. aim.

All perhaps a little confused in the light of the

present day position, but sound enough in the

political conditions that then prevailed in the

country.

whose names are of no importance now. Hobson was

Chairman and I was Secretary, both of the Belfast Club

and of the executive when this was formed. When

Dungannon Clubs were started in Dublin, Glasgow,

London and some centres throughout Ireland, mostly

in Ulster throughout the whole period of their

existence. 5.

We were kept busy in Belfast, first in ordinary business meetings of the club, arranging for our outdoor meetings in the city and suburbs, making arrangements for the founding and, subsequently, the printing of the "Republic", arranging for the articles, cartoons and, importantly, for the few advertisements we could secure to help pay for it.

We also published pamphlets on anti-recruiting and other nationalist subjects. We reprinted any suitable cartoons from the paper as postcards; these lampooned the Irish Parliamentary Party and attendance at Westminster, the R.I.C. and the British Army recruiting campaign. These pamphlets and postcards were sold to the other clubs and small Nationalist groups throughout the country and some to newsagents here and there who were favourably disposed to our propaganda. The distribution of these kept me and some helpers busy, as they were distributed through the post. The receipts; helped to finance our other operations.

We also arranged lectures and debates in our own and other halls, both for propaganda purposes and to help raise money for our needs. The late James

Larkin, T.D., and Senator Tom Johnson and some other labour men spoke at these for us and helped to attract an audience. Padraic Colum, Maurice Joy and one or two others, including Tom Kettle think he may have come later) from Dublin, also spoke for us.

In addition, we also supplied speakers for various occasions and functions, such as Manchester Martyrs' celebrations etc., mostly throughout Ulster and adjacent counties, and to Glasgow and London. 6.

The subjects discussed at our meetings were,

of course, national firstly - the value of an

abstentionist policy as opposed to attendance at

Westminster. Social questions such as the stay of

emigration, revival of our industries and suchlike

topics.

Lectures were usuafly on the same lines or on

historical subjects. We did a little at Irish

language classes, but the Gaelic League people

who could have helped us in this, were a little chary

of us, but in any case were doing this work much

better in their own organisation, of which most of us

were also members.

(d) Bulmer Hobson and myself were the Executive Officer

throughout. We had various people as treasurers

at different times. Some of these prove& very

unsatisfactory indeed, so that control largely

reverted to us, with different people as; committee

members at different times. I assume very few of

them are alive now.

4. (a) The previous meeting took place only a few weeks

earlier - I would say within a month.

(b) I remember only a few of those who were present

at either of these meetings. One was Pat Lavelle

( a solicitor who worked with a firm on the Quays),

another was Gogan, who lived around Dunlaoghaire and

is still alive, I believe.

Discussion was mostly on the possibility and

details of a possible amalgamation of the two bodies, 7.

the personnel of control of the amalgamated body, pending a convention and the incorporation of the

"Republic" paper, which was our organ, with the "Irish

Peasant" which had adopted or been adopted by the Cumanu na nGael.

(c) The Sinn Féin League was frankly a completely separatist organisation, approving, of all means to achieve freedom, while the National Council had adopted "The King, Lords and Commons" as an immediate objective. In reality there was no difference, except of personnel, between them.

Bulmer Hobson was not expelled from the I.R.B., nor would I have approved of such expulsion. He resigned from the Supreme Council because of the bitterness of Tom Clarke particularly and of Seán

MacDermott. After his; actions over the admission of

Redmond's nominees to the Volunteer Executive it would have been impossible for him to work with them.

I understand and believe that he remained, at least for some time, as Chairman of the Dublin Centres

Board of the I.R.B.

Tom Clark who was a man of a very simple mind, loved and admired Hobson immensely. Consequently, when Hobson was guilty of what Tom considered a betrayal, the rift was very bitter and Tom would not forgive him or trust him again.

Bulmer Hobson was the most single-minded

Nationalist I knew in my time. He found it hard, 8.

however, to work under orders, as he had the

supremest confidence (and still has) in his own

judgement. A person of this temperament was bound

to get at loggerheads, sooner or later, with those

who were controlling the activities of the I.R.B.

by methods which he did not understand and did not

approve.

I do not recollect that Tom Clarke was

appointed to the Military Council. I do not think

that he was a member, and the fact that be knew

nothing of the plans when I saw him in the week

preceding Easter Week confirms me in this opinion.

6. (a) As I have explained in my direct narrative,

the Supreme Council did decide to have a Rising.

The circumstances in which it might be called were

set out With the decision, as I have also related in

my narrative. The fixing of the date and time was

left to the Military Council. I presume that this

should have been referred to the Supreme Council

or at least to its Executive, viz, the Chairman (myself),

Secretary (Seán MacDermott) and Treasnrer (Tom Clarke).

It never was so referred.

(b) The Military Council was appointed for the

purpose of making all plans and arrangements for the

Rising, deciding the best date etc. and taking charge

of all military matters in connection with it, using

all the contacts etc. of the I.R.B. in doing so.

(d) Relations of complete trust, confidence and

good faith. All liaison through Seán MacDermott.

7. Joe Plunkett's visit was to Spain I understood,

and thence to Germany. He may also have gone to

U.S.A., but I do not remember that. His visit to

Spain and Germany was approved, financed and, I believe,

arranged through the S.C. of the I.R.B.

8. I have given my full knowledge on this matter

in my main narrative..

I am nearly satisfied in my own mind that

Connolly was a member of the Military Council almost

from its inception, and certainly long before his

disappearance. Owing to my absence in prison during

the middle and latter part of 1915, I am not too

well informed or too reliable on this matter.

9. Roger Casement, to the best of my knowledge

and belief, was never sworn into the I.R.B. and was,

therefore, never a member of the organisation.

Signed: Denis McCullough

Date:

Witness: M. F. Ryan, Comd't.

12th Dec. 1953.