Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 26 APRIL 1979

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Special Adjournment (26 APRIL 1979] Questions Upon Notice 4255

THURSDAY, 26 APRIL 1979

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. E. H. Houghton, Redcliffe) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m. PETITION PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS TRANSPORTED BY QUEENSLAND RAILWAYS AND ROAD TRANSPORT Mr. BURNS (Lytton) presented a petition from 784 electors of Queensland praying that the Parliament of Queensland will take the necessary steps to amend the relevant legislation to ensure that animals transported by Queensland Railways and by road trans­ port are not forced to suffer intolerable pain and suffering due to neglect, lack of water and lack of concern. Petition read and received.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMI'ITEE TRANSITIONAL BILL INITIATION Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Premier): I move- "That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to provide for the continuance of the Select Committee on Education beyond the prorogation of the Legislative Assembly; to preserve the operation of the resolution of 4 April 1978 by which that committee was appointed; and to provide for the completion of unfinished business of that committee." Motion agreed to.

PIRE BRIGADES ACT AND AN011HER IACT AMENDMENT BILL INmATION Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for Mines, Energy and Police): I move- "That the House will, at its present sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to amend the Fire Brigades Act 1964- 1977 and the Fire Safety Act 1974-1976 each in certain paPticulars." Motion agreed to.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE 1. FooD MARKETING CosTS Mr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Primary Industries- (!) In the light of a growing consumer backlash against soaring meat prices, has the Queensland Government, which claims to represent rural interests, investigated the cost of marketing food after it leaves the farm? 4256 Questions Upon Notice [26 APRIL 1979] Questions Upon Notice

(2) As a U.S. report indicated that 74c As indicated to the Party Whips, the in every consumer dollar is spent on auction sale will be held on 3 May 1979. marketing, has the Liberal-National Party in this State carried out detailed investiga­ tions into marketing, labour, packaging, 3. NATIONAL PARTY PETROL PRICE transportation, taxes, levies, charges, depre­ POLICY ciation, rents, advertising, interest, profit, etc., and what percentage does each Mr. D'Arcy, pursuant to notice, asked the represent of the consumer dollar spent on Premier- farm products? As motoring associations throughout Answer:- Australia have expressed grave doubts about the National Country Party plan to (! & 2) An overall study of the market­ increase the retail price of petrol, thus ing margins applying in the food industry reducing consumption, and as overseas has not been undertaken in Queensland. Indeed, such a broad study would not be experts have said that the move towards helpful as the marketing margin applying world parity prices will not relieve the in any one case could, of necessity, be problem of domestic oil supplies, what quite different from the average. action has he, as the National Party Leader in a decentralised State, taken On the other hand, statutory marketing authorities in Queensland are responsible to stop .this National Party plan of higher for the marketing of commodities that prices, which is adding to the high cost represent over half of ·the annual gross of liv.ing in this State? value of rural production. Co-operative associations are responsible for a further Answer:- significant proportion. These organisations take their responsibility seriously to mini­ No-one wants to increase the price of mise their respective marketing margin in petrol, least of all the National Party, order to protect their markets through whose main supporters are in country greater consumer support and also to areas where long distances of travel are improve money returns to their grower required. What I and others in the suppliers. National Party have advocated is greater incentives by way of subsidies and tax In addition, I would refer the honour­ concessions for those prepared to risk funds able member to the recent report by the in the search for more oil fields. Such Prices Justification Tribunal into charges action would, I am sure, provide increased and margins in the beef-marketing chain. oil exploration activities. This report indicated that charges and margins in the beef industry were not excessive. 4. Am FOR DIABETICS Mr. D'Arcy, pursuant to notice, asked the 2. TIME OF NOTIFICATION OF AUCTION OF Minister for Health- BELLEVUE BUILDING CONTENTS Cl) What facilities are available for diabetics in Queensland? Mr. D'Arcy, pursuant to notice, asked the Premier- (2) Does the Government fund educa­ tion and assessment programmes, as is As the Bellevue Hotel decision was done in other States? only supposedly reached on 18 April, why was the Opposition Whip notified on the (3) Is any action proposed to help morning of 18 April that an auction sale diabetics? of the contents of the hotel was to be conducted on 3 May and that members Answer:- should be notified? (1 to 3) The major hospitals in Brisbane have special clinics for diabetics, staffed Answer:- by specialist endocrinologists. In the larger Subsequent to the vacating of the Belle­ country hospitals, diabetics attend clinics vue by honourable members, action was run by specialist physicians. There is also taken for the removal of furniture, and a Diabetic Association of Queensland to those items that could not be re-used which many "ufferers belong and which is were taken to the Department of Works conducted by diabetics themselves. store at Hamilton for disposal. Individual sufferers receive special educa­ All furniture concerned was originally tion about their complaint at the hospitals provided by the Department of Works and, when they attend for .treatment. Com­ consequently, its removal had no relevance munity health education programmes are in so far as the future of the building conducted by my Department's Division of was concerned. All air-conditioning units Health Education and Info·rmation and were removed long after members vacated various community health centres of the the building. Division of Community Medicine. Questions Upon Notice [26 APRIL 1979) Questions Upon Notice 4257

5. EXTENSION OF APPLICATION OF LOW of accidents occurring during the same AIR FARES periods much greater than at other periods Mr. Powell, pursuant to notice, asked the during the day? Premier- (4) Will he step up the education pro­ (!) Is he aware that the new low gramme conducted by the Road Safety priority, priority-booked air fares only Council, in an attempt to combat this assist those airports fortunate enough to alarming trend? have jet services? (2) Will he make representations to the Answers:- Federal Minister for Transport to have (!) My attention has been drawn to the the Super Apex and Apex fare reductions latest road traffic accidents statistics extended to other routes in Queensland, released by the Australian Bureau of especially those where the major com­ Statistics Queensland Office for the year panies insist on using the outdated Fokker 1977-78. Friendship F27 aircraft? (2) These statistics show fatalities per (3) If Trans-Australia Airlines and thousand vehicles as 0.5 and injuries as 9.5. Ansett Airlines of Australia refuse to This is the lowest recorded rate in the grant the fare reductions to other than period since reliable road accident statistics jet routes, will he then make representa­ have been available in Queensland. tions to have the Federal Government upgrade airports so that F27 aircraft can (3) According to these statistics, this be phased out and F28 or similar aircraft would appear to be the case as compa~ed phased in? with daylight hours, although the per~od from midnight to 4 a.m. has a very hrgh Answer:- incidence also. (! to 3) So far as I am aw

(2) Any authority to prospect granted the terms of the comments used by the in Queensland is liable to cancellation by honourable gentlemen this morning is quite the Minister for failure to comply with unfair and incorrect. terms and conditions. As to electricity-there will always be a problem of supply when it is a matter of providing electric supply for small com­ QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE munities. This supply could be handled much CONTROL OF TERMINAL FACILITIES AT NEW more effectively if the Commonwealth Gov­ PORT OF BRISBANE ernment made available to us the moneys that were promised for i.t some years ago. Mr. CASEY: I ask the Minister for Mari­ Water supplies ·on islands are a permanent time Services and Tourism: In view of the problem, not only in the Torres Strait public release of sections of the report of islands but also on islands used as tourist Hungerfords, a firm of Brisbane chartered holiday resorts. In places without a catch­ accountants, on the control of the new port ment area that have a pretty fair consump­ of Brisbane, wherein they categorically state tion of water, clearly there will be a problem. that the Port of Brisbane Authority cannot Anyone who has visited the islands would in the public interest put the control of the have to concede that water supplies have new terminal facilities in the hands of the been upgraded very substantially in recent Hamilton operator (Brisbane Wharves and years. Wool Dumping Pty. Ltd.), and as this is published confirmation of allegations that As to the comments in the article on I have previously made in the House in education, which suggested that Torres relation to this matter, will he now inform Strait island teachers are not adequate~that the House of the real reason why terminal is a grave reflection on the Education Depart­ control has been given to this company, ment, which, of course, controls education. contrary to the consultants' recommendation? Many islands do have white teachers. Where there are island teachers, they have under­ Mr. HODGES: First of all, there has not taken a three-year course at the North Bris­ been any public release of any document bane College of Advanced Education. The associated with contracts concerning the suggestion that they are inadequate is an Port of Brisbane Authority. Whether or unpleasant slur on the capacity of these not the report that appeared in the Press properly trained people. the other day is true, I cannot say. I have As .to employment opportunities-it is not not examined the report. I feel that at easy in any small, remote community to this stage the least said about the develop­ generate economic employment-creating ment of the new port of Brisbane, the opportunities. We do a great deal. One better it will be to assist those who are example is the fish·processing ptant that was negotiating to arrive at a satisfactory con­ established at Y orke Island earlier this year. clusion in relation to the operation of the It is now employing a number of people. new port. For that reason, I have nothing At the moment it is running as a business further to say on the matter. and is operating on a $500,000 a year turn­ over. We do very well. To paint the picture of the islands as some STATEMENTS BY MEMBER FOR COOK AND sort of squalid, depressed area, which is a SENATOR COLSTON misnomer, is utter distortion. Anybody who Mr. SCASSOLA: In asking the Minister goes to them must be ,impressed by the happi­ for Aboriginal and Island Affairs this ques­ ness of the people and the general air of tion without notice, I refer to a Press tidiness, briskness and satisfaction that is statement in this morning's "Courier-Mail" evident in every aspect of village life. attributed to the honourable member for Cook and Senator Golston, in which allega­ tions were made by those gentlemen about STEEL-BELTED RADL'\.L TYRES the lack of provision of water, elect,ricity and accommodation for Torres Strait Mr. AUSTIN: I ask the Minister for Islanders, and I ask if the allegations are Transport: Is he aware ·that the New South correct or not? Wales Government is invest,igating over 200 road accidents believed to have been caused Mr. PORTER: The statements, of course, by steel-belted radial tyre failures? What are the usual vague smear allegations, with steps has the Minister taken to investigate nothing particularised. It is therefore very my report on this matter, which was tabled difficult to find any allegation that can be in this Parliament? answered factually. I saw the article this morning and I hope to get some further Mr. TOMKINS: As the honourable mem­ information at a later point so that I may ber knows, the matter has been ·in the hands of A.T.A.C. for some time. It is meeting give the House some factual details. tomorrow. I have no knowledge of the In general terms, housing in the Torres present whereabouts of the report. I shall Strait island communities, of course, could make some inquiries and inform the honour­ be better, as it could be anywhere in Queens­ able member when I get back from the land, but to suggest that it is inadequate in meeting. Questions Without Notice [26 APRIL 1979] Questions Without Notice 4259

NoN-PAYMENT OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION of honourable members opposite. That was PREMIUM BY LEADER OF OPPOSITION all said on a television programme last night for everyone to see and hear. Mr. GUNN: I ask the Premier: Will he confirm that the Leader of the Opposition It is interesting to find people talking has failed to pay a workers' compensation about dissatisfaction. Mr. Beattie referred premium of more than $3,500? Are there to the reform group-the people whom he any moves to have this public money represents-and what it means to the Labor recovered by the Queensland Government, Party. He also referred to the Trades Hall, and would the Government consider garnish­ to Senator Georges and to all the other eeing pa!'t of the high salary of the Leader of issues. Last night he said very clearly the Opposition to repay this debt? to the people that there is no way in which the Opposition could ever gain either the Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The Leader of respect or the support of the people of the Opposition must go down in history as this State to enable it to gain seats in this one of the great non-payers. He started off Parliament. Of course it is a matter of here by not paying for his newspapers and vital concern to .the people. The problems then complaining that I had stopped ·their were outlined quite clearly last night. delivery. He was involved in a company which went into liquidation owing large sums of money. Involved in them, of course, was .the RETURN TO QUEENSLAND OF MICHAEL EGAN large sum of $3,500 of workers' compensation funds, which was not paid by the company. Mr. McKECHNIE: I ask the Minister for Naturally, the Government had to pick up Mines, Energy and Police: Is he aware that the tab. It had to waive this responsibility a person named Michael Egan, who \\as of the company in which the honourable formerly a member of the Queensland Police member was involved. Force, left this State claiming that he was forced to leave? Is Egan now back in As to recovering this amount-! think it Queensland, and does he know whether Egan has gone. The loss has been accommodated is trying to influence any members of the by the Government, and I do not propose Police Force to stage an act of disloyalty, to take any action to seek to have it as Egan did recently? recovered. Mr. CAMM: I am a\\-are of Mr. Egan's return, which must come as something of a surprise to many peop'le after his claim STATEMENTS BY LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION that he had to leave Queensland because of ABOUT UNITY WITHIN THE A.L.P. fear of victimisation. Apparently his recep­ Mr. BERTONI: I ask the Premier: Is tion in the Labor State of New South Wales he aware of the dissatisfaction within the was not to his satisfaction, so he has returned community concerning the statements made here. by the Leader of the Opposition about It was noted that at the recent demonstra­ so-called unity within the A.L.P.? What tion he was associated with the disruptive is the si~nificance of -this to the Parliament? element who, by the waving of their red flags, indicated where their political affiliation M!'. JONES: I rise to a point of order. lay. Following information that we have The question is not in accordance with the received, I state that preliminary investiga· rules laid down in the House. The ques­ tions seem to indicate that Egan is intent tioner is seeking an expression of opinion, on disruptive tactics, and I have a report and obviously the Premier cannot give it. from the Acting Commissioner of Police (Mr. MoDonald) advising me that Egan has Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I will decide that. attempted to persuade at least one member of the force to follow his example in order Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: It is quite to try to embarrass the Government. clear to the House that the honourable mem­ I assure honourable members that the vast ber is very worried about the whole question. majority of police officers in Queensland will The House is greatly concerned about state­ continue to abide by their oath of office, ments that the Labor Party is united and and that view is backed by the assurance I is a harmonious group. Of course, the have received from the Queensland Police situation is very clear -to this Parliament Union. and to the State. It was outlined by Mr. Peter Beattie on television last night over QUEENSLAND CONSUMER PRICE INDEX FIGURE a period of approxima.tely 10 minutes. He outlined very clearly the situation in which Mr. ELLIOTT: I ask the Premier: Is he the Opposition finds itself. He pointed out aware that the Consumer Price Index figure that there was a lot of "dead wood"­ for Queensland for the March quarter was they were his words-in the Labor movement. only .7 per cent, as against an average 1.7 He also said that at the rate at which per cent nation-wide? If he is so aware- honourable members opposite were going, it (1) As a large proportion of the increase would be about 20 years before they could is attributed to meat prices, is this not ever hope to get into government. He a quite remarkable result for Federal complained bitterly of the poor performance and State policies? 4260 Questions Without Notice [26 APRIL 1979] Questions Without Notice

(2) As the three Labor States recorded GOVERNMENT POLICIES; INFLUX OF an average increase of 1.92 per cent, is INTERSTATE PEOPLE this a fair indication of the relative degrees of competency displayed by the Queensland Mr. HARTWIG: In asking the Premier Gorvernment and the Governments m the this question without notke, I draw his atten­ Labor States? tion to the many statements made in recent days and weeks in this Parliament and in the Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The Queens­ Press condemning the policies espoused by land figures quoted by the honourable mem­ him and the Government. If those statements ber are of great satisfaction and pleasure are true, can he comment on why thousands to the Govemment and 'the people of the of residents are literally fleeing the Labor State. The figures released for the three State of New South Wales and establishing Labor States demonstrate again that those themselves and their families in this State? Sta;tes are behind Queensland. We have a Could it be attributed to his action and that tremendous State and one that is growing of the Government in abolishing death dut,ies and progressing under the initiat,ives taken in Queensland? by this Government. We have always stood Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Whether or not four-square behind private enterprise, which anyone condemns my policies and attitude, has achieved the development and advance­ or those of the Government, is beside the ment of this State. The results shown by point. The main fact is that we are Mrong ,the figures for the three Labor States are supporters of private enterprise. As I have to be expected as they a;re controlled by indicated, that policy has brought this State Governments that are intent on destroying to its present stage. If anyone wants to private enterprise. They are against private criticise our being positive on these issues, enterprise. The Queensland Government tha;t is just too, bad; it is his privilege and and private enterprise are to be congratulated right so ,to do. The policies that we have on the results achieved in this State. pursued and the way in which we have pursued them have achieved fantastic 'results electorally in State and Federal elections in STAFF SHORTAGES IN DEPARTMENT OF Queensland. But for the policies and attitudes CHILDREN'S SEHVICES adhered to by me and the coalition Govern­ Mr. FOURAS: I ask the Minister for ment, the Government in Canberra would Welfare: Is he aware of the severe staff not be there today; its fate would have been shortages in the Department of Children's sealed Iong ago. Because of our poiicies, Services and of the fact that child care such as the abolition of death and gift duties, officers have such heavy case-loads imposed people are coming here-and they like to upon them that they find it virtually come here. Former policeman Egan soon impossible to meet their professional obliga­ found out that there was no better place tions to their clients? Is it a fact that, than Queensland, as was just pointed out by aLthough the Public Service Board agreed to the Minister for Mines, Energy and Police. a recommendation to employ a further 87 Many other people also keep coming here personnel in the department, including admin­ because of the clear-cut policies and attitudes istmtive and clerical staff, the Treasurer of this Government. They have achieved remarkable results for the people of the has declined to fund ,the employment of such Sta,te, and ,they will continue to have those staff? Finally, if that is so, what action results in the future while we continue in is the Minister taking to remedy the severe Government. staff shortages within the department? Mr. DOUMANY: The problem of staff shortages is a universal one because of the LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION ceilings agreed to by the Government and Mr. BISHOP: I ask the Deputy Premier other State Governments jn conjunction with and Treasurer: Did he see the "Nationwide" the Federal Government, in providing good programme on A.B.C. television last night economic management over the past few 'in which reform movement activist, union years. We are well aware that there are leader and prominent A.L.P. member, Mr. areas in which staff have ,to carry fairly Peter Beattie, said that the parliamentary heavy case-loads. Every effort is being leader of the party and his members were made to deploy resources to best effect and hopeless? Does the Deputy Premier agree to further negotiate with the Treasurer with with that opinion of the low standing of a view to effecting an increase in funds that Mr. Casey both in the community and in are allocated. I would advise the House the Labor Party? ,(hat, although the Public Service Board has agreed to establishment ceilings, there is no Dr. EDWARDS: It is well recognised recent decision of the board, as alluded to within the Labor Party that Mr. Casey by the honourable member, supporting the is a disaster as Leader of the Opposition. introduction of 87 employees in the depart­ Some four years ago he could not accept ment. I know that the Public Service Board the rulings or ambitions of the Labor Party is currently considering ,the problem of short­ and in fact was sacked by the Labor Party. fall below establishment, but no recent or What he said about the then leader of the current decision bv the board has been Labor Party, Mr. Houston, who is now the communicated to rri:e. deputy leader of the Opposition, is well Questions Without Notice [26 APRIL 1979] Bread Industry Committee Bill 4261

recorded in "Hansard". How well I Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The question of remember the speech that he made on that attendance in the House also applies to many occasion. The people of Queensland should honourable members. They have interviews be reminded consistently and continually of and other matters that require them to be his attitude towards the Labor Party at that absent from the House from time to time. time. I agree that it is very necessary that as many members as possible should be in The expressions uttered by Mr. Beattie and attendance in this Chamber, because that is other people within the Labor movement are a very important part of their responsibilities indicative of the general feeling, even in as members of Parliament. Again, he who Mr. Casey's own back benches. In the is without sin, let him cast the first stone. lobbies of Parliament House it is well known On many occasions 1I have seen the ranks of that his future is very insecure. Of course, the Opposition very thin on the benches the coalition would like to see him there for opposite. a long time. We are very delighted. His forgetfulness, his ineptitude and his inability Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted to put a motion through this House are for questions has now expired. indicative of his poor standing within the Labor Party. Honourable Members interjected. I remind the people of Queensland that Mr. SPEAKER: Order! As I have told the Labor Party, no matter who is leader, honourable members before, I will not toler­ does not change ~ts policies or its programmes. ate any further nonsense in the House. The Its basic philosophy is exactly the same as next member who interjects will be dealt the philosophy that was perpetrated on the with under Standing Order 123A. Australian people by Mr. Whitlam between 1972 and 1975. It was the same policy that belongs to this party. The people of Queens­ BREAD INDUSTRY COMMITTEE BILL land are well aware of this and they will never accept the Labor Party, especially whilst !NmATION IN CoMM!TTEE~RESUMPTION OF it has a leader who has a split party and DEBATE is undermined by those in the trade union (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) movement who consider him to be no more than a puppet on a string. I believe that Debate resumed from 19 April (seep. 4165) the Labor Party's future is as bleak as it on Mr. Sullivan's motion- ever was. "That a Bill be introduced reiating to the stabilization of the bread industry and to establish a bread industry committee and ATTENDANCE OF MINISTERS DURING for connected purposes." QUESTION-TIME Mr. CASEY (Mackay-Leader of the Mr. MACKENROTH: I refer the Premier Opposition) (12.8 p.m.): When the motion to an answer given by him on 30 November was before the Committee last week, many 1978, in which he said that it was the members of the Government, particularly responsibility of the Leader of the Opposi­ members of the National Party, commented tion ,to be present in the Chamber during on the need for this and the need for that question-time, and ask: As the average and on the minimum-price scheme that is attendance during question-time by himself proposed, as I understand it, under this legisla­ and other Ministers during the past three tion. J,t was rather disappointing that, in weeks has been 50 per cent, with the attend­ introducing the proposed Bill, the Minister ance dropping to as low as five Ministers did not really go into full detail as to how at one time last Thursday, does he consider such a scheme will be implemented. that it is also the responsibility of Ministers It is unfortunate, too, that when a report, to be present during question-time to answer paid for by the people of Queensland, had questions without notice? been compiled, it was not tabled, together with the Minister's comments, so that all Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I assure ,the honourable members could know and under­ honourable member that Ministers have manv stand fully the means by which the qovern­ respons,ibilities and many duties. I have ment intends to implement the prmciples just asked the Deputy Premier and Treasurer that it proposes to adopt under the Bill. and other Ministers to attend an Executive However, as we have seen so often, the Gov­ Council meeting with His Excellency the ernment is very reluctant to table in this Governor. Of course, the honourable mem­ Chamber reports-paid for by the people of ber would not know ,that. On many occasions Queensland-so that everyone in this State Ministers have responsibilities such as can understand exactly what ,js going on. In deputations and interviews that cannot be fact, to say that the Government is secretive postponed. would be saying the very least about the way Mr. Mackenroth: Their first responsibility in which it conducts its affairs. should be here. Questions have been asked from time to time about a number of reports. In fairness, 1\'Ir. SPEAKER: Order! let me say that about four or five years ago 4262 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

a similar investigation was conducted into the in relation to sugar prices. Those things bread industry in this State. At that time, have been clearly set out and explained over Mr. Knox, as he then was, was Minister for a lengthy period. Justice and Attorney-General. He had a report compiled by his department and that The Liberal Party members in this ·report was tabled, printed and available to Chamber, however, are not quite sure of all members for study. They were able to \vhat is going on. Members of the Liberal gain full knowledge of the practices followed Party would like to see the importation in the bread industry. Of course, no legisla­ into Australia of sugar from low-wage over­ tion was forthcoming on tha,t occasion. seas countries, especially at a time when The matter of the bread industry has \vorld sugar prices are low. It was the been raised again by the Government and Liberals and their kind who opposed the now it is placed in the hands not of a legislation that was introduced by a Labor Liberal Minister but of a National Partv Government in this State in 1915 to stabilise Minister. It is a National Party Ministe~ the sugar industry. As I say, the Liberals who is introducing this legislation. would rather see sugar imported into Australia and .the closing down of the sugar industry . For . ';l-S long as I have been engaged in all the towns stretching along the Queens­ m politics, I have heard members of the Liberal Party. proclaim that their party is land coast, towns such as Nambour, Mary­ a free-enterpnse party. I have heard Liberal borough, Bundaberg, Mackay, Townsville, members state that free enterprise is the Ayr, Ingham, Innisfail and Cairns. Liberal very foundation on which the whole con­ Partv members wish to gain a foothold in cept of their organisation was built. Con­ thos~ towns, but they never seem to be sequently, despite many calls made over the able to get the support of the local people. years . for the introduction of price control, The reason ·is obvious. People in those areas the Liberal Party has opposed its introduction. know full well that if the Liberal Party The National Party jumped on the band­ had i,ts way it would impose its so-called wagon .and claimed that it, too, was a free­ free-enterprise principles on the sugar indus­ enterpnse party. It believed that people try and allow cheap sugar to be imported should . be entitled to sell whatever goods from other countries. That would cause they Wish to sell and charge whatever price tremendous hardship not only for cane farm­ they Wish to charge. Time and time again ers but also for all workers in sugar areas. we have heard National Party members sav "Let the buyer beware." -' The important point is the principle already ·incorporated in the sugar industry­ In contrast, the policy of the Labor Partv that is, a maximum price. All along the line has been a consistent one. We believe that before this legislation, that has been the type the basic essential commodities should be of proposal put forward. subject to some form of price control. This would prevent people from being ripped off, Government Members interjected. as they are in certain circumstances and areas at present. Admittedly, milk, the pro­ The TEMPORARY CHAIR!'VIAN (Mr. duction of which is near the very core Miller): Order! I will not tolerate persistent of the National Party, is subject to some interjections. form of price control in certain areas of the State. However, generally speaking, the Mr. CASEY: To meet the wishes of certain Opposition's call for price control has never of ·its supporters, .the Government is now been heeded by the Government. proposing a minimum-price scheme in this legislation. A number of years ago many of A Government Member: What about sugar? the Government's supporters in the dairying industry were allowed to go to the wall. About Mr. CASEY: I hear a Government mem­ 10 years ago there were three to four times ber on the back bench bleating. He sounded ·the present number of dairy farmers in like a Liberal who is trying to get out from Queensland. The Government adopted a under, as he and his colleagues did on policy which meant in effect, "If you can't Tuesday evening. Well, what about sugar? get big, get out.". No ~inimum price is set for sugar, although Dr. Lockwood: You are talking about milk ~ertamly a maximum price is set. Sugar Is one of those commodities that have been bread now. controlled since way back in 1915. There ·is no objection to price control on sugar The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! other than the objections coming from the The honourable member for Toowoomba many manufactuers in the southern States. North is not in his usual place. I might add that, because of lack of encour­ Mr. Hansen: Anthony has told them, "Get agement by this Government, Queensland out if you can't get big." has no major manu~acturer of confectionery. The southern manufacturers object to any Mr. CASEY: The leaders of the Liberal­ form of price control on sugar and try to National Country Party Government have indicate that certain things are happening told them that. Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979) Committee Bill 4263

Traditionally, National Party supporters the prices offered by the flour millers. In came from the dairy-farming areas. The some areas of the State they nearly broke Queensland Government has allowed many their necks in rushing to join the queue to dairy farmers and small shopkeepers to sell their bakeries. Certain honourable mem­ go to .the wall. bers who were formerly engaged in this industry sold ,their bakeries on much the Mr. Davis: And butchers. same basis. Mr. CASEY: As the member for Brisbane Mr. R. J. Gibbs: You are aware that, out Central said, it has allowed many butchers, in Clermont, the honourable member for tno, to go to the wall. Peak Downs has a shocking reputation as a Suddenly the Government has introduced baker? this legislation concerning bakers. Bread is Mr. LESTER: I rise to a point of order. certainly the staff of life, but what about It must be clearly understood that I sold my meat? People ate a lot more meat than bakery so that I could give full-time personal bread prior to the recent huge price representation to my electorate. increases for meat. Because of the fluctuat,ing price system and ,the Government's failure The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. to introduce a proper system of pricing Miller): Order! There is no point of order. (which the Government promised and legis­ lated for in 1977), meat prices a:re far too Mr. CASEY: There was no point of order, high. I point out that the meat-pricing Mr. Miller, but since a friend of mine passing legislation wa:s introduced by the Minister through Clermont some time ago suffered who introduced the legislation we are now ptomaine poisoning from eating sandwiches debating. I challenge him to tell us in his there, I have never bought bread in Cler­ reply why he did not implement the legisla­ mont. I do not know whether it was the tion passed in 1977 to protect the housewives meat or the bread; but none the less I will and all other people in Queensland who buy not be unkind to the honourable member for beef. Even representatives of the grazing Peak Downs. industry have said that the domestic price of In many areas bakers broke their necks to beef is too high; that it is pricing meat off sell to the big flour-milling companies, so the table. The Cattlemen's Union-- many of them were not disadvantaged. I The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! accept that the small baker is providing a I have allowed the honourable member fair service in the little towns. But it is not only latitude to make his point. I think he has the bakers who are involved; also involved made it. I ask him now to come back to are the shopkeepers, the people who are the Bread Industry Committee Bill. selling petrol at the service stations, the motor repairers, the small grocers and the Mr. CASEY: I accept your ruling, Mr. people who are trying to sell vegetables. Miller, but I ,think a valid comparison can I have spoken to storekeepers in places be made between bread and meat. After such as Julia Creek where the cost of all, meat is included in a lot of sandwiches. freighting fresh vegetables from Brisbane is The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: The twice the purchase price of the vegetables honourable member has made his point. themselves. That is the malady that must be looked at; it is not just the way that the Mr. CASEY: I do not want to make you, bread-baking industry is controlling itself in Mr. Miller, the meat in the sandwich, but Queensland. We have to look at the whole bread and meat are closely linked. problem in the small country towns and not at simply one individual. It is like the Why, then, should we be looking at one old fairy story about the butcher, the baker, and not ,the other? Is there some evil intent the candlestick-maker. All of them have to that we are unaware of in this legislation? be looked at. If we had ,the report, we would know. I come back to that as one of the main points This legislation will do nothing for them to be made. at all. We should be looking at ways in \Vhich the Government can encourage I accept that country bakers are dis­ industry to decentralise. That point has been advantaged ,in some ways. One of ,(heir big made previously in this debate. This Bill difficulties lies in the freight costs imposed will not help in any way. All it will do by the Government. High freight costs is make sure that the vast majority of people mitigate against businesses in country areas. in this State will pay a darned sight more for Time and again in this Chamber we have bread than they are paying now. been given examples of the effects of high freight rate's. ~ The challenge of this debate before the Committee is that the people of Queensland As I said earlier about the dairying indus­ want to know just where the Liberal Party try, the sugar industry, the beef industry and really stands on its so-called free-enterprise so many other primary industries, the philosophy. They want to know just where Government ha:s a "get big or get out" con­ the National Party stands on its philosophy cept. In 'recent years the large flour-milling of concern for all of the other people in companies have taken over many small western towns, the small country areas and bakeries. I might add thM a majority of the more remote areas of this State. This the small bakers have been happy to rush legislation will not help them at all. 4264 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

The only people whom it will help are The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! some of those in the area close to Brisbane, I will not allow cross-firing in the Chamber. in the Brisbane Valley and in places that I am trying to hear the honourable member are the bastions of the National Party as for Windsor, and I will name the next person we all know from current electoral figures, who prevents my hearing him. and places where the National Party's gerry­ mander is at its worst. That is the whole Mr. MOORE: Normally I am in better intent of the legislation. It is certainly not voice than I am today, Mr. Miller. in the best interests of Queensland and certainly does not conform to the Liberal My instincts are to leave the bread-baking Party policy as stated in this Chamber and industry alone, to let its members find their elsewhere. It does not conform to the things own feet. If some fall by the wayside, they on which the National Party likes to get on fall by the wayside. We did not do much the bandwagon in calling itself a free-enter­ to protect the coopers, the blacksmiths or prise Government. the bullock-drivers or those in any of the other industries that have gone out of For those reasons we intend to clearly existence. They have been replaced by some­ show the people of this State that it is a thing else. There will always be bakers. hypocritical Government held together by When I was a young fellow, I worked on a a Johalition of two hypocritical political baker's cart for a short time. Every suburb parties that are not prepared to stand up for had one or two bakers. There were a their own principles. We will oppose the couple in Toowong, two or three in Indooroo­ introduction of the Bill. pilly, and so on. In those days the dough was hand kneaded and far more people were Mr. MOORE (Windsor) (12.24 p.m.): In employed. They also produced better bread. his speech the Leader of the Opposition did At least there was a crust on it, unlike the a lot of big noting but really had nothing to mass-produced muck that is delivered today. say. He spoke about sugar, beef, and every­ It is sliced and placed in a plastic bag, and thing else except the subject-matter of the if one leaves it out of the packet for five Bill. He has not seen the Bill but, on minutes it turns into a mass of mould. I have the introductory remarks of the Minister, he my doubts about the quality of modern bread, decides that the Labor Party will oppose the but I am not really here to talk about bread Bill. I suggest that before he opposes the quality today. Bill he allow it to be printed, and he can As I said, I would leave the industry then read it and know what is proposed. alone. If we fancy that through some smart I have some misgivings about the legislation process we can introduce a minimum price but, of course, I do not know what the Bill for bread, I would not favour it. I do not really contains. know that we are going to have a minimum price, not having seen the Bill, but if we are, Mr. Houston: Weren't you told in your I am not in favour of it. joint party meeting? Mr. Davis: Mr. Lester told us. Mr. MOORE: We are told the rudiments of the Bill, but we do not see it. Mr. Lester: I didn't. Mr. Houston: In other words, you blindly Mr. MOORE: I do not know anything support the National Party? about that aspect of the Bill, but I would not favour that form of price control, either. Mr. MOORE: As we demonstrated the Some people might think that this legislation other day, we do not blindly support any­ will protect bakers in country areas, but it thing. will not. Business has its own laws. 'We have seen the Tip Top crowd and others come Mr. Houston: You did, and then you came in and virtually monopolise the bread indus­ in here trying to get out of it. try. But what has happened? The engineers designed a quite small bakery that is capable The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. of turning out all sorts of bread. They have Miller): Order! been installed in hot bread kitchens, where people queue up for bread. They are cer­ Mr. MOORE: I am quite happy to take tainly not queuing to buy bread from the that interjection, Mr. Miller. larger bakeries. So it comes back to the Although the Liberals are challenged time point that if one builds a better mouse trap and again about not having the guts to and lives in a forest, people will hew a path cross the floor, A.L.P. members never do. to one's door. So if we fancy that this Under their rules they are prevented from Bill will protect the community from a doing so, and if they do they are expelled monopoly, we are wrong, and the hot bread from the party. I just wonder whether kitchens are proving that a monopoly does that might not be a contravention of the not control the industry. But in addition Legislative Assembly Act. I would not be to that, if we introduce this legislation to surprised if members of the A.L.P. do not bind the other big retailers, because these have that right irrespective of the party's modern machines are not all that expensive rules. But I am here to talk about bread. and not all that difficult to run I will bet guineas to gooseberries that Jack the Slasher, Opposition Members interjected. Woolworths, Coles and other such companies Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4265 will begin to produce their own bread. So years. That is a fact, and I shall produce this legislation will not overcome the prob­ figures to prove it. What we are doing is lem. We should not be doing anything about saying to all these big flour mills, all ·these the industry at all. monopolies, "Let us stop cutting one There has been some talk about the prob­ another's throat. Let us start stabilising the lem of the amount of bread returns in this price. Let us start getting the bread industry State, but despite that we have had the on a stabilised footing so that it can start cheapest bread in Australia. I have the making money again." That •is all we are feeling that if this legislation is passed we doing. will go from having the cheapest bread in The figures show that over 10 years ago Australia to having the dearest, and that there were about 1,200 bakers in Queensland. worries me. It might not be the case, but, At present, according ·to the shops and fac­ as I say, I will make that judgment when tories registration section, there are about I see the Bill. 251 bread bakeries left in Queensland of The bread that is returned is not wasted. which 27 are in the Brisbane area. If' one It is rebaked and made into breadcrumbs. adds to those figures the number of cake There is a great demand for breadcrumbs in and pastry bakeries, one finds that there New South Wales. Also, they are a marvellous are about 131 bake11ies in the Brisbane area ingredient in ordinary beef sausages. Bread­ and 521 throughout Queensland. That is, crumbs should be substituted for the muck, 25 per cent of all bakeries are situated the bran and pollard, that is put into beef within .the Brisbane metropolitan area. sausages .today. If one eats three or four One finds that over 10 years ago, beef sausages, one almost starts to crow 40,000,000 loaves of bread were produced in like a rooster. Queensland. At present, 140,000,000 loaves It does not cost very much to bake the of bread are produced. So the 25 per cent of extra bread. It ,is baked at the end of the bakeries situated within the Brisbane metro­ run, and virtually the only cost is that of P?litan area produce mo_re than 72 per cent flour. The last loaves of bread that are of the bread produced m Queensland. This baked are really the cheap loaves. They are Bill actu.ally. is desigJ?-ed to allow the major monopolies m the Bnsbane area to capitalise sent to the stores to en~ure that they do on their policy of buying out the country not run out of bread. If there were no bread bakeries. returns, shops would run out of bread and it would not be available to the people. They I now turn to the flour mills and the would go to a shop and find that there was monopolies that control the bread industrv. no bread. As Queensland has the cheapest There are four major groups in Queensland: bread in Australia, bread returns here are Fielders, the Gillespie group, who are manu­ not a problem. facturing bread under the name of Cobbity The member for Rockhampton said that Farm; Allied Mills, which is one of the big­ the whole idea behind ,this Bill is to keep gest of all, who are manufacturing under .the up the price of bread. If a minimum price name of Seafoam and producing bread under were introduced, in the first instance it the name o.f COuntry Style; the George would have the effect of increasing the price Weston group, who produce bread under the of bread temporarily, but, with inflation, name of Tip-~op; and O'Briens, a private unless the board was continually ·increasing concern operatmg under the name Defiance the minimum price, the price would soon Mi1l_ing Co. These four major milling com­ be ,the same as the minimum price. pames control the whole of the bread industry 111 Queensland. What I feel is intended is that the industry should look after itself in a monopolistic :I suggest t? you, Mr. Miller, that 70 per way and decide what the price of bread cent of bakenes are owned by the big mono­ will be. The price will not be fixed by com­ polies, certainly in the Brisbane area; that petition; the board will decide the price on 25 per cent are owned by private concerns a cost-plus basis, which, to my mind, will that, for some financial or other reason, are not be in the ·best interests of the industry. attached to the flour mills; and that about I shall wait to see the Bill before I pass five per cent are owned by private concerns judgment, although I must say that I have with n? attachments. So what is being pro­ some misgivings about it. posed 1s actually a stabilising of the price of bread for the large monopolies that control The members of the Labor Party think the industry in Queensland. they are smart in throwing out a challenge to .the Liberals to cross the floor and there­ It is far too late to try to assist countrv fore show they have guts. They can start areas. The proposed Bill will go a long way to talk to me the day I see ·them cross the towards assisting the small country bakers floor and show an ounce of guts. who are left. But how many of them are left? Very few. I have obtained from the Mr. BERTONI (Mt. Isa) (12.33 p.m.): I Parliamentary Library a list of bakeries in begin my remarks on the Bread Industry country areas, and very fe·w are left that Committee Bill by stating that if our inten­ are either (a) not tied to a major milling tion is to do some good for the country company or (b) privately owned. Therefore baker, we Me 10 years too late. It must be Mr. Miller, I reiterate that •the proposed Bill realised that the number of bakers in will only make the large monopolies even country areas has been decreasing over many larger. 4266 Bread Industry (26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

Let me take as an example Allied Mills. Some bakers will get around the Bill by They have gone through the process of buying doing what they do at present, that is, by flour mills throughout Queensland. They buying shelf space in large stores such as bought the flour mill at Roma, which is Woolworths, Coles and Jack the Slasher. near the Minister's electorate, and closed it. They sell the bread and give a percentage to They bought the flour mill at Toowoomba the store in which they buy the space. How and closed i.t. They bought the flour mill will that be stopped? They will say, "We at Maryborough and closed •it. Now they are are not involved in the retail outlet. We left with only two flour mills in Queensland­ have purchased shelf space and are merely at Brisbane and Rockhampton-and they con­ selling the bread." trol the whole of Queensland. As I said I eagerly await the printing of the Bill. earlier, Allied Mills is one of the biggest com­ I intend to allow the bakers in my area to panies in the bread industry in Queensland. investigate its ramifications and to comment In the United States of America, .the to me on it. Finally, I agree with the Labor industry operates under a different system. Party that the price of bread will definitely There a system of dating of bread is used. rise. I am for the country bakers who will First-day fresh bread is known as day-old be protected to a certain extent, but I am bread and is sold at a certain price; second­ opposed to giving the big monopolies a day bread is sold at a reduced price; and money harvest. third-day bread is sold at a price that is further reduced-in other words, the price Mr. BOURKE (Lockyer) (12.42 p.m.): drops each day so that the consumer knows Bread is a staple item in our society's diet. exactly what bread she is buying. The matter of price control has, historically, always created interest, so it is not surprising Mr. Davis: I hope you are going to to see members of the A.L.P. such as the elaborate and tell us in which States that Leader of the Opposition rise today and, with system operates. Don't just say "the United a good deal of glee and enthusiasm, enter States"; that is a bit large. this debate. Mr. BERTONI: The system operates in They hark back to the good old days when the United States of America; I could not Labor was in power and when we had price tell the honourable member exactly which control. Of course, we also had its natural States it operates in. companion, rationing. It is all very well for the Leader of the Opposition to talk about The returnability of bread is the major price control of bread and meat without problem that I see in the industry, and it has going into the mechanics of it. By not doing been one of the major causes of country that, he can avoid having to point out that bakers going bmke and selling out to major the natural result of price control is ration­ companies. I know of one baker .who had ing, under which everybody gets very little over $400 a week in returns. He had to of what is available. take truckloads of bread to the dump because of .the system of returns. The major mono­ Reference has been made today to the polies can absorb bread retums in their problems confronting ice-cream manu­ overall operations. They can supply returned facturers and soft-drink manufacturers. They bread to southern States-for use 1in piggeries, may have their problems and, inasmuch as for example-and get some return for it. those manufacturers create employment, I am prepared to support any case they put I cannot accept that the proposed Bill is up for assistance in the protection of jobs really for the .benefit of country bakers. I in country areas. Bread, of course, is of agree with members of the A.L.P. who have much greater importance to the community said that the proposal will force up the than ice-cream and soft-drinks. The people price of bread to consumers. If we begin in my area, for example, could do without stabilising the price of bread on a monopoly those two commodities for a week or more basis, the price will only increase. It may if, because of industrial problems or traffic not increase immediately, but we will cer­ delays, they could not be brought to the area. tainly see an increase within six or nine months. Over the past two decades the production of bread has become concentrated. This is The Minister stated that the committee not something new. The Minister referred will look at codes of practice. I want to to the problems in country areas over the impress upon him the need to have such a past two or three years. This trend, however, code in the bread industry; it is a must. I began in the years of my childhood when, cite what happened in Townsville some years as a boy here in Brisbane, I knew that there ago, when two big baking companies paid were small neighbourhood bakeries all over other bakers not to tender for the supply the city. Even in those days they were either of bread to the R.A.A.F., the hospital and being bought out by the larger bakeries or the Army. The big companies wanted to put going out of production. The production of in a set price and keep other bakers out. bread was even then being concentrated. We They actually paid other bakers money not have seen the almost total disappearance of to submit tenders. That type of practice small bakeries in Brisbane and the concentra­ followed by big industry, by monopolies, must tion of production in the hands of four be looked at closely. major baking concerns. Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4267

This has led to some efficiency which has successes are working against the com­ been reflected in the pricing of bread, which munity. We have had a great success in is acknowledged as being cheaper in Brisbane removing road tax-the contributions to road than in any other capital city in Australia. maintenance levies are soon to be removed Obviously the concentration of production -but our success is being exploited by the and the efficiency achieved by it have played big bakeries that impose unhealthy compe­ a major role in the control of prices. The tition on towns such as Toowoomba and price of bread to the consumer is fairly low. Rockhampton. However, I regret that the ownership of It is all verv well for the members repre­ the large bakeries, by and large, lies outside senting the Rockhampton area to attack the the State. Of the four big Queensland baking Government. I have information that one concerns, one is Canadian owned, two have of the big bakeries used six trucks to run headquarters in southern States, and only bread to Rockhampton. If the honourable one is a genuine Queensland firm. I regret members for Rockhampton and Rockhamp­ that that is so. I am proud that the one ton North believe ,that their people should which is Queensland-owned is a Toowoomba eat bread baked in Brisbane, that is their firm owned by the O'Brien family, of the business. Defiance Milling Co. I make no apology for I am concerned about a number of aspects promoting their cause here. They provide of the extension of Brisbane bakeries into more than 240 jobs in Toowoomba. This country areas. I am concerned about the local firm is truly competitive and deserves effect on job opportunities in my area and every manner of praise and support. I all country areas. When our young people regret that the other three big bakeries are go looking for bakery apprenticeships, they controlled from outside the State. One is should not have to be referred to Brisbane even controlled from outside this nation. I do bakers to get them. We should preserve and not approve of that at all. maintain jobs in our own areas. In country Mr. K. J. Hooper interjected. towns little or no alternative work for young people is available. If a job disappears in Mr. BOURKE: I will take the honourable Brisbane, other job opportunities are much member's interjection. more readily available than they are in Mr. K. J. Hooper: Is the secretaryship country towns. Every job lost in a country of the joint Government parties a stepping town simply means that one young person stone to the ministry? loses a job opportunity. I support entirely the concept of decentralis­ Mr. BOURKE: I do not think that is rele­ ation. The more we can spread jobs and vant to the debate. I will not answer the economic development throughout the State, interjection. the better will be our State both now and in In relatively recent times we saw the the future. All of us should be doing what emergence of the hot-bread kitchens. With we can to provide work opportunities and their advent, it became obvious to everyone development in country towns. We should that the people wanted this facility. I should be doing what we can to prevent negative say that they made the big bakeries stand development and to maintain jobs that are up and take notice. They obviously meet available. It does not seem logical to talk a big demand for specialty lines such as about encouraging new jobs when we are French bread. The public supported them prepared to shut our eyes while well-estab­ to a great degree, but the trend now seems lished jobs disappear. As a Government, we to have stabilised. are providing industry incentives for various firms to establish themselves in country The concentration of production reached its ultimate limit with the disappearance of towns. It certainly seems logical, economic­ many bakeries, and in relatively recent times ally, that as a Government we should be this trend reached into country areas. It looking to do what we can to preserve jobs was normal in Brisbane for production to there. Toowoomba is in my electorate and be concentrated and for ultimate efficiency I want jobs to be preserved there. I am to be reached, but now that the trend is equally concerned about other countrv towns extending to country areas, it is an aberra­ in my electorate such as Gatton, CroW''s Nest, tion. It is not fair trading; it is a perversion Warwick and Dalby. As far as is possible of normal, fair competition. and feasible, jobs should be maintained in those places. This is not simply a narrow., People in the country and in all other parochial concern. 11y interest goes to the areas should have reliability of supply. If broad principle that jobs and development this process continues unchecked by the Gov­ should be maintained and fostered in country ernment or by natural economic forces, areas. the bread supply for country areas will be The big bakeries gain certain advantages coming from Brisbane, without any reliability through economic development and devel­ of supply. opment in the industry. In the areas close We have a community problem created by to Brisbane they have the advantage of their traffic on the roads. Anyone travelling advertising being seen on television. It is between here and Toowoomba can see paid for by the Brisbane area but it is seen bread trucks burning up the roads. It also in the near Brisbane areas. So the big seems that in one respect the Government's bakers, in effect, get free advertising. They 4268 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

have the advantage of scale of production. am worried about where the job opportunities On my understanding of the baking industry, are and a reliable supply of bread. Actually, economy of scale is more marked as pro­ my v·;orry goes beyond {hat. I am also wor­ duction gets larger. A baker producing ried about the price to the consumer. There 250,000 loaves is vastly more efficient than is a great deal of false economy in these a baker producing 40,000 loaves. The big so-called free-enterprise actions. Members of bakers are using this economy of scale rather the Opposition spruik about free enterprise mercilessly. They are using pricing systems and claim that that should be our policy. in country to\'i!1S and they are using the What they are really talking about is private advantage that can be gained by the retailer enterprise, of course. I support private enter­ by way of returns and service and maintaining prise entirely. But, as they know, it is false the stock of bread in the store. to speak about it in the circumstances of this State and nation. Another aspect of {his process to which I am opposed and which I strongly deplore We have heard talk of corner stores goincr is the method by which the large bakers to the wall in favour of supermarkets. Thes~ purchase established businesses that are are service operations. They are retail con­ apparently making profits. They purchase cerns. There has been efficiency of supply them, close them down and use them as to the consumer. In many ways, not a great depots. This happened in my area. The deal of harm has been done in these cases. Queensland Co-operative Milling Association But bread manufacture is a production oper­ ation. It is a worthwhile industry which is Ltd. was a well established firm with a producing something. historv of setting up this industry in country areas.- It had flour mills and bakeries, which As I said, I am concerned for the con­ were taken over by Allied Mills Ltd. sumer. I am not standing here and mindlessly Q.C.M.A. had obviously run into hard times saying, "Hang the costs. Preserve the jobs." over the past couple of years and ha.d run The bread consumer must have his interests at a deficit. However, I have seen no evidence preserved. He has a valid interest in reliabil­ that {he bakery in Toowoomba was not run­ ity of supply and the provision of jobs in ning at a profit. If it was an efficient move his area. If it is a matter of only le or 2c for Allied Mills to close that bakery down a loaf, it is worth making a sacrifice. to concentrate production, I seriously doubt The whole question has to be examined whether the economies were large enough very carefully. Quite rightly, the price of to justify the loss of those jobs in ~o~­ bread is a sensitive issue, particularly to woomba. I have had it put to me that 1t IS families. Judging by some of the comments not serious, on the ground that, while 35 they have made today, I would take the risk people were employed previously, 22 are of saying that it concerns me more than it now being employed in the depot. I d_o not does some members of the Opposition. This regard that as a defence to the practice of concern led initially to the joint Government big firms of buying out successful country parties setting up a committee. The Minister operations and closing them do:-vn merely to was good enough to let me see the report of gain the benefit of the productiOn they had. that committee. I will not comment on it in depth, or on the members of it, but they Mr. Yewdalc: You are talking about were people in the industry and the Minister Defiance Flour. Isn't it that firm's preroga­ would have had confidence in them. I am tive to buy up bakeries? not particularly impressed by the arguments put forward or the conclusions reached in Mr. BOURKE: Of course it is. I am not that report. There was a recommendation for objecting to that. the industry committee, which will be Mr. Yewdale: They are doing that, aren't embodied in the Bill. Subsequent to the they? setting up of that committee, the honourable member for Peak Downs, who has had a Mr. BOURKE: The honourable member great deal of experience in the operation of has spoken in this debate _an~ then he asks a country bakery, also conducted an investi­ a question like that. It md1cates that he gation on his own at a great deal of personal missed the whole point. It is not a matter effort and expense to see what were the of who owns these country bakeries but detailed problems. I found that by and large where the bread is produced and where the I agreed with his conclusions, but at this job opportunities are. stage that is a personal comment. Mr. Yewdale: They are not producing in I have heard it said that the answers to the major centres. the problems of the bread industry could be dealt with by a committee of four repre­ Mr. BOURKE: They are producing in quite sentatives from the major bakeries. They a few country areas. I am not getting into could solve all of the problems if they an argument on that specific point. The hon­ wanted to, but the sad fact is that they ourable member should pay attention to the do not want to. My conclusion was that the general principle that I am developing. The answer to the problem of unfair competition honourable member might have his concerns. from Brisbane bakers faced by country I am concerned about where the job oppor­ bakers was the zoning of production. I have tunities are provided. I am not worrie~ par­ not yet heard any argument that that system ticularly about who owns the bakenes. I \vould not work; that intrinsically it Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4269 possessed any greater problems of administra­ The composition of the proposed com­ tion than any other system that it is proposed mittee will be crucial to its success. I know that this committee should involve itself that is in the hands of the Minister, through with. I believe in zoning. I think it would the Executive Council, and I am sure he be relatively simple to administer and I will exercise great care in selecting the think it would preserve the concept of free members of the committee not only initially competition. Anyone could set up a bakery but in the future because it will be a con­ in a particular area. tinuing committee. It will have the potential to exercise great influence on the industry. Mr. Mackenroth: Would that mean dearer bread in Toowoomba? As I say, I am not particularly enthusiastic about some of the implications Mr. BOURKE: No, not necessarily. There of the Bill. I was a member of the Minister's was no suggestion that any baker would be committee. He listened to my opinions, and legally bound to keep out of an area. As I listened to his. I feel that he has given I said, my concern is with where the bread us a fair hearing so I feel I have to be is produced, not with who produces it. If fair to him, too. such a system were introduced, it would have to be phased in. We would have to allow [Sitting suspended from 1 to 3 p.m.] for specially lines. To my mind the south­ Mr. BOURKE: To sum up, I point out eastern zone would have included Brisbane, that ,the plight of the country baker is real Ipswich, the Gold Coast and the North and that the Government must take steps Coast, and according to my information that to help him continue to play his ,traditional area consumes approximately 70 per cent role in country towns of providing a reliable of the bread produced in Queensland. In that supply of bread (the basic staple of our diet) way we could have prevented the unfair competition of the bigger bakeries in Bris­ and provide jobs. I wish .to see that situation bane that use their economies of scale and continue into the future. I do not wish the unfair trading practices to bear down on the reliability of supply and job opportunities to smaller country baker. I feel that the disappear in our country towns. The essential reliability of supply in Toowoomba and matter to be considered by all in this dispute other country areas would have been pre­ is that the consumer must get the product served under that system. at the most economic price. I do not believe that this committee I hope that the calibre of the committee should have total control over the industry. is such that these ,results can be achieved, I find that a bit hard to swallow. In par­ and are achieved, as soon as possible. As ticular, I am very apprehensive of any sug­ ii said earlier, I am not totally enthusiastic gestion that the committee should have any about the prospects ,but the consensus of the great control over the price of bread. I think joint Government parties is that this is the a price increase is obviously an option if the best method of attacking the problem. ,I industry is in a bad way, but I think the do not say that I have all wisdom on this fact that Jack the Slasher, for instance, matter, and therefore I bowed ,to other wishes to sell bread at a reduced price is opinion. More in hope than in firm belief, to be commended. If he wishes to run bread I shall support the Bill. The committee will as a loss leader, good for him. have a job ahead of it, but I am prepared We have had the problem of returns for a to give it a go. I hope that the industry long time, and if we can achieve a common­ and the public of Queensland are prepared sense solution to this problem, well and good. to do likewise. The problems facing this It does not make sense to have these bakeries committee are real and they need some atten­ stacking shelves in retail stores with bread, tion by the Government. knowing full well that it will not be sold Mr. ROW (Hinchinbrook) (3.2 p.m.): As and that they will end up carting it away and dumping it. I do not think that is bread has long played such a prominent part in common sense at all. human progress. ,I am surprised that members should be in conflict over it. It is under­ Mr. Bertoni: Why should there be returns? standable that difficulties arise with legisla­ Why should you overproduce and throw it tion that tends to cause some people to believe away? ,that the Government is applying itself unnecessarily to such a mundane sub­ Mr. BOURKE: I can see the problem ject. In a Sta1te like Queensland from the retail point of view in that the ,we must acknowledge that the benefits of price the retailer pays must include the cost statutory organisation have been well demon­ of wastage. But I agree with the honourable strated. It surprises me that honourable member for Mt. Isa; I think returns are members on both sides of the Chamber should very wasteful. So it is the country rather than the Brisbane bakers who have problems question those benefits. today. I oppose unnecessary bureaucratic Mr. Yewdale: Why shouldn't they be able interference with the industry, or any to question them? industry for that matter, particularly when a problem exists only outside Brisbane. I Mr. ROW: I do not say that the honour­ think price is of crucial importance to the able member has not a democratic right to consumer. question it, but I am surprised that anyone 4270 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

should question the benefits that have flowed the south-eastern quarter and the environs most obviously in the conditions that are of the capital city. If we are a Government peculiar to Queensland. with a proper attitude towards the develop­ If the honourable member will allow me ment of the State, we cannot allow ourselves to elaborate a little, I point out that we to be deluded by domestic issues based on must trace the history of establishing major the south-east corner of the State. Many industries in Queensland. Queensland is a ~f the issues in this question are being vast State with a rather sparse populat·ion. I ~so~ated. !f there is talk about parochialism, lt ts not m the country areas; it is in the am sure that honourable members opposite areas where the economy of scale exists would agree that, under those peculiar cir­ and people can close their eyes to the cumstances, without some regulat·ions bei.ng realities that this industry is in need of some applied to the management of affairs in the organisational assistance. State, we would tend to have areas of dis­ advantage arising in all matters and indus­ The preservation of the community of tries. The bread industry appears to be interest in the various regions of the State an industry that got into difficulties because is, to my mind, still a paramount factor of the disadvantages that apply in our peculiar if the St~te is to benefit from the develop­ situation. ment of Its untapped resources that is open to it. I say without fear of contradiction that there is no need to worry about what .the For quite a few years we have seen a Government is proposing for the bread drift from country areas to provincial cities industry. This type of enabling legislation and the capital city. This has created a very is well proven in Queensland. It only gives serious problem. It has not happened statutory authority to the industry to establish because of bad policies of the Government. a basis on which it can best serve the con­ It has happened because of a philosophy that sumer and maintain stability within the has been engendered by the members of the industry. On other occasions I have been Opposition who are objecting to what I accused of parochialism after referring to am saying. It is a philosophy that has been the sugar industry but, being reared in that expounded by these people and, unless we industry, it is not remiss of me to refer to can encourage a return to the provincial it once again. It is one of the primary areas, ·We have to support the development !industries in Queensland which in the early of enterprise in the remote areas of this stages wisely saw the need for some kind State. This has been sponsored by this of statutory regulation. It is one example Government, to a very great extent. It of an industry that has succeeded under has only been in the years that this Gov­ statutory control. It is rather strange to ernment has been in office that we have hear in this House an argument against seen any real endeavours towards these ends statutory authorities when we consider how and I believe that this Bill is another exampl~ many industries have followed this example of -this Government's responsible attitude over the years. Nearly every primary­ towards the proper and logical administration producing industry in Queensland has at of industry, with assistance from the Gov­ some stage, enjoyed benefits from some kind ernment. of statutory organisation; hence one of the . Mr. Wilson: Would you like the sugar largest portfolios is that of Primary Indus­ tndustry to go on the free-enterp11ise market? tries, which is very ably controlled by the Minister who is introducing this Bill. In Mr. ROW: Honourable members opposite the light of past experience, we should have ~ow have . a ~eader who resides in a sugar­ no fears about statutory authorities. mdustry d1stnct, and because of this he is now having two bob each way, to use an old The Bill proposes to enable the bread Australian expression. He wears two hats. industry to regulate itself. It does not pro­ He preaches socialism, and yet it is private pose to inflict upon the industry or the enterprise that keeps him in office and that consumer any statutory regulations that will enabled him •to venture out on his own, where be contr~ry to the wishes of the industry. he got up to his eyes in benefits. Unfor-tun­ As I satd a moment ·ago, this Sta·te has ately, he has not demonstrated much many large geographically isolated areas. gratitude. A community of interest has developed in those areas. Mr. Austin: He didn't pass the test. Mr. Austin: You are being parochial. Mr. ROW: No, he didn't and he has not demonstrated much gratitude for the benefits Mr. ROW: This is not parochial. What which he gained from the private enterprise I am saying is essential to the maintenance system. Even now, he is not telling the truth. of regular public participation in the affairs of this State. Anyone who claims parochial­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: You must admit you ism does not realise what Queensland is all are non compos mentis as regards this Bill. about. Mr. ROW: If the honourable member for There is no economy of scale in this Archerfield wants me to descend .to the level State apart from in the south-eastern corner. at which he dwells, he will have to think All of the argument on this concept of the again, because he is not going to drag me legislation seems to me to be centred on down there. Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4271

The argument of supply and demand has word means. If they are talking about been brought up frequently in this debate. oligopolies or cartels, perhaps they are on Of course, the question is: what is the supply the right track. With respect .to the previous and demand situation? speakers in this debate who have mentioned the word "monopoly", I submit that they Mr. K. J. Hooper: Where is it? .really do not know what they are talking Mr. ROW: In many areas the demand is about. strictly limited. The demand in the domestic Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Would you liken this to market in Queensland for any staple product, the type of monopoly in the tyre industry? especially bread, which is a perishable and cannot be stored or stockpiled for future Mr. AUSTIN: As a matter of fact, I consumption, is based upon territorial limita­ would not, but I thank the honourable mem­ tions. The territorial limitations of the bread ber for Wolston for that interjection. The industry are extremely important to its future bread industry is nothing like the tyre stability, and some of the territories are industry, because those in the tyre industry indeed very small. The honourable member have already reached the stage where they for Peak Downs, who is a st·rong advocate are fixing ·the prices amongst themselves. One of the retention of bakeries in these small can go to a tyre retailer and ask, "What territorial areas, gave a very good example is the price of a 165 SRI4?" and he will of what we are talking about. We cannot say, "$75". The fellow down the road will achieve any economies of scale throughout quote you $35 for the same ·tyre. That is Queensland with a perishable product where less than half of what the previous retailer there is a limited consumer market. The quoted. That shows the state of the tyre whole purpose of this Bill is to regulate .the industry at present. bread industry so that the market is properly Mr. Wright: I do not think that this has regulated and balanced in the areas of con­ anything to do with the Bill. sumption that eXJist, whether they be large or small. That is what the Bill is all about. Mr. AUSTIN: It has, with all due respect It will give the bread industry some statutory to the honourable member. The bread authority by which to regulate its own affairs. industry is not ·in that state yet, but if the It has been demonstrated by other industries Government goes through with this legislation, in .the past that this is a beneficial Govern­ the industry will be in that sta·te. That is ment process, and I thoroughly commend the why the tyre industry has something to do Bill to the Committee. with this debate. Mr. Lane: There is no need to treat him Mr. AUSTIN (Wavell) (3.14 p.m.): Listen­ with due respect. ing to the honourable member for Hinchin­ brook, one would think he had been able Mr. AUSTIN: Well, I think there is, to view the Bill. I would like to assure because he made a very intelligent comment. the Committee that I, and perhaps some members of the Opposition, have not been Mr. Lane: It would be the first one in able to view the Bill, although I believe one 10 years. or two members of the Opposition may in Mr. AUSTIN: That is probably correct, fact have viewed it. During this debate but it was intelligent and I admire him for today a number of comments have been made making ,it. about monopolies. I use the word in the plural. I have not yet understood what is I have not been able to look at ·the meant by the word "monopo1ies". I ·was legislation yet, but I believe that in it this unaware that there were such things as mono­ Government may be attempting to use the polies acting in this State or anywhere else. bureaucra·cy to influence the economic system of this State. If it is attempting to The dictionary on the table in front of you, do that, I cannot support .that principle. We Mr. Miller, gives the following meaning for do not need bureaucrats trying to tell us in the ·word "monopoly"- this place what to do with the economic "!. Exclusive possession of the trade in management of this State. In fact, if a some commodity. Government department attempts to influence "2. An exclusive privilege . . . of selling the economics of this State, which I believe some commodity . . . " this Bill may be attempt•ing to do, Lt is interfering with the powers of the Treasury I was unaware that in fact there was an and the Government generally to control exclusive trade or an exclusive business in the economic management of this State, and selling bread in Queensland. So I believe I do not believe that it should be able to that some members in .this Chamber have do that. used the word "monopoly" somewhat loosely, and it leads one to •believe that in fact they Perhaps one might :be excused for saying really do not know what the word means. that the Government is trying to solve the Perhaps they have read it ·in books and economic question with a political answer. periodicals and l!"eally do not know what it I believe that this is .the case in this instance. means. The word has been used by mem­ No Government in the world has ever suc­ bers of .the Government parties as well as ceeded in solving an economic question with by members of the Opposition. As I say, a political answer. From what I have heard I believe that they do not know what the in this debate, I believe that to be the case 4272 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

in this instance and it will not succeed. I can there has long been a need for a civil assure honour~ble members that a similar engineer in Cabinet. Perhaps the right person debate will come on again in about 12 is now here. months. As I see it, on this Bill-I am speaking Mr. K. J. Hooper: What would we be now about private enterprise and socialism­ debating then? we must speak about the personal freedoms of individuals. In my opinion, they are Mr. AUSTIN: We should be debating the extremely important. My socialist friend on free-enterprise system, which I will get on my right might say that in principle history to in a moment. I intend to do ·that. has proved-! repeat "history has proved"­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: Keep your hand out throughout the ages that socialist principles of your pocket. inhibit the right of the individual. I say with all due respect to the Minister that I do Mr. AUSTIN: I can keep my hand in not know what the Bill contains or how my pocket if I like. The honourable mem­ many teeth are in it, but if it inhibits the ber for A.rcherfield sticks his hands down rights of private enterprise or of the his pants when he speaks. I ask him what individual, which it may or may not do, is the difference? it is no better than the socialistic policies that our colleagues on my right would put Mr. Sullivan: Were you in the Chamber fon' ard. I warn the Minister that the right when I made my introductory remarks? of the individual is to compete in the market­ Mr. AUSTIN: Yes, I was. place, wherever he desires, at a competitive price. Mr. Sullivan: You could not have been listening to me. Mr. Wilson: You have your hands mixed up. It would be on the left. Mr. AUSTIN: With all due respect, the Minister's introductory explanation con­ Mr. AUSTIN: No, it would be on the tained virtually nothing at all on the econo­ right. I am sure that the honourable member mic possibilities behind the Bill. He did not for Townsville South would know where the mention once the economic propositions Left is. behind the Bill. Mr. K. J. Hooper: You always keep your Mr. Row: There are none. hand in your pocket. Mr. AUSTIN: If there are none, I ask Mr. AUSTIN: Yes, that is right. I always the simple question: why introduce the Bill? keep my hand in my pocket because I have to keep my hanky warm. Let me get back for a moment to the The right of the individual to operate in bureaucrats. I do not know of any bureau­ society is the right of each one of us in this crats now advising the Government who have Chamber today. We have the right to go ever been in private enterprise. There may out and set up in business; we have the be some-and I stand to be corrected on this right to compete. We do not expect the -but I do not know of any who have been bureaucracy to be looking over our shoulder in private enterprise and have run their own saying, "You shall not do this. You shall not businesses. I suggest that if a person has not do that."-in other words, "You shall not been in private enterprise and run his own send bread here. You shall not send bread business, he really would not know the there." I think that is a significant part of problems. I make that statement here, but the proposed Bill. As I said before, I do it has been proven throughout the world that not know yet exactly what is in the Bill, and bureaucrats tend to want to control private I hope that the Minister has taken the rights enterprise because they envy the position of of the free-enterprise system into considera­ company directors and company managers. tion in the Bill. Knowing the Minister as I They fancy themselves in the bureaucracy do, I assume that he would have done so, as controlling private enterprise. As a because he respects the right of individuals supporter of free enterprise, I cannot cop such as farmers and many others to maintain that proposition and I will not stand for it. their own entity. I will come to that in a Mr. K. J. Hooper: I thought it would be moment. the Communists who would be in control. Mr. K. J. Hooper: I thought you were Mr. AUSTIN: No. I will get to them in a going to round off. moment, and I will also get to the socialists Mr. AUSTIN: No, I am not. I wish to on my right. speak briefly about the history of bread. It Economic freedom usually goes hand in is interesting to recall what happened in the hand with personal freedom, and we ought city of Brisbane. to look at that. We have heard a great deal from country Mr. K. J. Hooper: I think you ought to members about what has happened to beat Tony Bourke into Cabinet. country bakers. I have not been in Parlia­ ment for very long, but I have read Mr. AUSTIN: I hope I do. I consider that "Hansard" over a long period and I do the honourable member for Lockyer would not recall any country member ever standing make an excellent Cabinet Minister, but up years ago, when city bakers were under Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4273 threat from Tip Top Bakeries and all the Each one of those individuals makes some other big organisations, and endeavouring to sort of J2IOfit. It is important to remember support the poor city suburban baker. Not that within our society there would be no one of them did it. Not one of them churches, no A.L.P., no Liberal Party and bothered to do it. Now, however, the boot is no National Party unless people were working on the other foot. Many years ago the big in industry and enabling it to make profits. cartels moved in, took over the bakeries in It is as simple as that. There would be no the suburbs or bought them out and began social welfare and no income for Govern­ producing bread. They squeezed the smaller ments unless profits were provided. bakers, who had stood their ground, and Honourable gentlemen on my right scorn forced them out of the industry. profits. Their money comes from profits. Anyone who studies economics, as I have Whether they like it or not, profits keep on occasions, would realise that economics the trade-unionists in work. The unions take works in cycles. The bread industry cycle the money from the unionists and contribute virtually coincides with the trade cycle and •it to the party funds, so if there was no other cycles. When the big cartels in the industry there would be no party funds. bread industry failed to supply the consumers Opposition members scorn the free-enterprise with the products that they desired, the hot principle, but it gives them money. They bread kitchens opened up. They supplied should realise that the free-enterprise system the consumers with hot bread, hot buns, keeps the economy going, and the sooner apple pies, pies, wheat loaves, plain loaves they realise it, the better off all of us will be. and so on. You name it, they supplied it. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! They began to capture the market from the Before I call the honourable member for big producers, who were geared to one line, Warwick, I point out that I have noticed the white or brown sliced loaf. All of a -that a number of members use the micro­ sudden the big producers found that they phones to interject. The microphones are could not compete. installed to allow a continuous debate, not Mr. K. J. Hooper: What happened to the for the purpose of interrupting a member decent old-fashioned malt loaf? on his feet. I would hope that all honourable members recognise ·this. All honourable Mr. AUSTIN: I don't know, but it ·looks members have the opportunity to speak and as if the honourable member has had a few to make their point of view known; but I in his stomach. do not want honourable members to use microphones when interjecting. Mr. K. J. Hooper: You've worn the hair Honourable Members: Hear, hear! off the top of your head. Mr. BOOTH (Warwick) (3.30 p.m.): I Mr. AUSTIN: We can't have hair and rise to support the Bill. In doing so, I firstly brains, too. The honourable member for compliment the Minister on the work he Archerfield has plenty of hair. did in examining the industry in an effort to find a solution. He certainly has not intro­ Mr. K. .J. Hooper: If you had another duced the Bill lightly. He put a lot of work brain you would be half-witted. into it and examined the industry closely. I believe he has tried to make a worthwhile Mr. AUSTIN: Perhaps that is correct. I contribution to the bread industry and, when was born and bred in the country, and down history is written, it will be seen that he has in our backyard we had a small shed con­ done just that. taining a box with a seat on it. The seat looked a bit like the seat in .the Lord Mayor's It is not my intention this afternoon to advertisement about water supply. There disagree with the views expressed by the was more substance in the can under that honourable member for Wave!!. I agree with seat than there is in the honourable member's what he said about private enterprise. We head. must have a private-enterprise system, and I see nothing in the Bill that would restrict The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. it. Miller): Order! The honourable member will The Leader of the Opposition spoke of come back to the Bill. minimum pricing. I do not think anything in this Bill will suggest minimum pricing. All Mr. AUSTIN: I am not greatly familiar that it will do is provide for the establish­ with the manufacture of bread, but I would ment of a regulatory committee that will suggest that the manufacture and marketing make a contribution to the bread andustry of bread require flour, yeast, salt, sugar, a in Queensland. The Bill sets out, or suggests, baker, transport, a wholesaler, a retailer and that a competent committee will be estab­ a consumer. With the exception of the con­ lished. sumer, each of those persons makes a profit. Mr. Wright: Have you seen it? Mr. K. J. Hooper: That is free enterprise. Mr. BOOTH: No. Naturally, I have not seen the Bill. When I do see it, I hope Mr. AUSTIN: That is what I am talking that it will be a good one. I have enough about. If the honourable member had lis­ confidence in the Minister to believe that tened, he would know. he has well and ·truly explored all matters. 4274 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

The interjection of the honourable mem­ necessary. But we still eat a lot of bread. I ber for Rockhampton was quite foolish. He like bread, and it is probably to my everlast­ must know that, like him, I have not seen ing shame that I eat too much of it. By the the Bill. I am looking forward with the look of them, the honourable members for same interest that he has to seeing it. Archerfield and Murrumba eat far too much bread; certainly more than I do. All that This competent committee will comprise we are trying to do is bring a streak of representatives of the various sections of sanity into the industry. the bread industry, and a consumers' representative. At the outset I said that I would be tolerant; therefore I hate to raise this mat­ Mr. Davis: He will be only a flunkey of ter, but it must be raised this afternoon. the National Party. I refer to the obvious delight displayed by members of the Opposition at any time Mr. BOOTH: The member is being narrow. I believe that that representative will be an when interests are trying to squeeze out any excellent committee member and fully rep­ small businessmen. Every time a small resentative of Queensland consumers. If we businessman is sent to the wall, we get big want to be narrow in our outlook we can laughs from the Opposition. That is just make statements similar to that of the mem­ what Opposition members like and it is to ber for Brisbane Central, but that would their everlasting shame. be wrong. Mr. Wright: You're a liar. I think it was the honourable member for Archerfield who paid me a compliment The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. when I rose by saying, "Now we will get a Miller): Order! The honourable member for tolerant contribution." I shall try to make Rockhampton will withdraw that remark. such a contribution. Mr. WRIGHT: The comments made by During my time as a Queenslander-and the honourable member for Warwick are I have been one all my life-many of the totally untrue. I withdraw the statement that committees and boards that have been estab­ he is a liar and say that he is dealing lightly lished have made excellent contributions, and with the truth. they have been the better for having con­ sumer representatives on them. I see nothing Mr. BOOTH: I will accept that. It to be afraid of in having a committee that has not done my speech any harm at all. includes a consumers' representative. I do I intend to continue with what I set out to not know whether the representative will be do and that is talk about job opportunities. male or female, but I believe he or she will I am surprised that the honourable member make a tolerant approach to the problems. for Rockhampton is leaving the Chamber because I do not think that the people Mr. K . .J. Hooper: I hope you can tell the of Rockhampton-- difference. Mr. WRIGHT: I rise to a point of 1\Ir. BOOTH: I have some difficulty, but order. The reason I am leaving the I am sure that the honourable member can Chamber is that I have to answer a phone always tell the difference. That is one of call. the things that does not matter. Mr. BOOTH: I withdraw that remark. Mr. K. .J. Hooper: Speak for yourself. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. BOOTH: It does not matter in this The honourable member does not have to instance. I am surprised at the rather foolish withdraw as it was not a point of order. interjection made by the honourable member for Archerfield. Usually his interjections are Mr. BOOTH: Very well, Mr. Miller; I quite sane. am in your hands. The Bill is designed to bring back to the Surely it is in the best interests of industry some sort of sanity. At present, members of the Opposition to keep the job bread prices range from as low as 30 cents opportunities where the people eat the bread. to as high as 68 cents. I have yet to be convinced that ,jn such circumstances the Mr. Austin interjected. industry is sane and stable. In my considered Mr. BOOTH: I did not interject while opinion, if we are to have an industry that the honourable member for Wavell was will do its best for Queensland and produce speaking, but I say now that it was not his the bread that people want to buy, we must finest effort. It will not go down in history bring stability to it. This morning an hon­ as his finest hour. In any case, he is inter­ ourable member said that the industry was jecting from other than his usual place. stable. But even if it is stable at present, it will not stay stable for ~ong. Other speakers this afternoon have said that we are interfering with private enter­ I cannot remember which speaker com­ prise. There is no suggestion of that in the pared the state of ,the bread industry with Bill. All we will do is place the bread the demise of coopers and blacksmiths. The industry in the hands of people who will situation is nothing like that at all. Coopers regulate it. and blacksmiths had to bow out because to some extent their trades were no longer Mr. Austin interjected. Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4275

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! In his introductory speech the Minister The honourable member for Wavell is not said- in his usual place. " ... Brisbane has, for some time now, had the lowest average retail prices for bread Mr. BOOTH: That is all we are trying of all the capital cities." to do. There is no need for the honourable member for Wavell to interject any more. I think that is an important statement. If I have given him all I intend to give him. this Bill does the slightest thing to increase When he has time he can look back on my bread prices, I will be ashamed of this Govern­ speech and read it. ment but, like the honourable member for Windsor, I am prepared to wait to see what Mr. Austin: You must have seen the is actually in the Bill because at the moment Bill then. I do not know. Mr. BOOTH: I have not seen the Bill. Mr. Casey: Don't they show it in the joint party meeting? The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the honourable member for Wavell Mr. AKERS: The bits and pieces that under Standing Order 123A. have come to the joint party meetings were not sufficient to even make it clear to me Mr. BOOTH: If we centralise an industry what are the general principles of the Bill. in one town, what happens in the event of It appears to me that the intention is to industrial trouble, such as with the Trans­ maintain small country bakers against the port Workers' Union? Why should the tide of commercial reality. If we are trying bread consumers be placed in the hands of to do that, we might just as well try to one union? Throughout our history we reverse the force of gravity or the tides. have had bread manufactured in our home It is impossible to do so, short of turning towns, have bought it in our home towns Queensland into a completely socialist State. and have expected a good-quality product. I hope this Government is not going to give We have had just that. I see no reason why way to socialism as easily as that. We might that should not continue. be encouraging socialism, but we should not be giving way to it through legislation. Mr. R. J. Gibbs: A lot of them are owner-drivers. The most important provision in this Bill relates to the powers to be given to the pro­ Mr. BOOTH: I am not contesting that posed committee, and I intend to wait until some of them are owner-drivers. I should I see exactly what these provisions entail. like 'to point out to the honourable member But I must admit that I am extremely appre­ that his love for owner-drivers is very short­ hensive about them because we have seen lived. Only a week or so ago he was too many cases where private enterprise has suggesting that the Premier was influenced been greatly inhibited by boards and com­ too much by owner-drivers. All that the mittees set up in this State supposedly in Premier wanted was fair play. He is a the name of free enterprise, but certainlv fair-minded man. Opposition members do in contravention of any principle of free not like that. I see no reason why we should enterprise. allow the bread industry to get into the hands The Minister went on to say- of the Transport Workers' Union or any other centralised union. I diverge for a "Victoria introduced production zoning moment to give members an example. There legislation ten years ago in an effort to are people in this State who would put all prevent the decline in the number of small the fire brigades in this State under the country bakers. Desipte that legislation, control of one union and one board. As the the number of country bakers in Victoria honourable member for Caboolture said, it has since declined by about a third." is to their everlasting shame. Surely we The Minister also explained some of the other do not want people to be able to shut down things that have been attempted in other all the fire brigades in this State because States, and none of them seem to have they are under the control of one union. worked. Now we are coming up with this legislation as a sop to country bakers, but we Knowing the Minister as I do, I know are really leading them further down the his appointments to this committee wil! be drain because we are going to mislead them excellent ones. The intent of the committee into thinking that this legislation will help is to grapple with the problems of the industry them. I cannot see any way at all in which and try to bring some sanity back into it. It we can help them. The only thing we might will be able to regulate the industry without do is make it easier for them to sell their detriment to the consumer. I commend the bakeries to the big combines. That is all Bill to the Committee. that will happen. They will not stay in busi­ ness in the face of the competition they will Mr. AKERS (Pine Rivers) (3.41 p.m.): I have to put up with. wish to speak only briefly in this debate. I must say I was ashamed to hear some of the The Minister also said- inanities in interjections by some members "The Bill seeks to establish a bread indus­ opposite. I do not think such things should try committee to supervise trading practices be said in this place. in the industry." Committee Bill 4276 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979]

If that is restricted to a very simple, ~a~ic Mr. SIMPSON: Honourable members opposite believe in Government. cont~ol of code of practice, something which t~e Mmis­ industry, and it is no good t~eir .trymg t.o ter mentioned later on, and nothmg eise, hoodwink the people by sayi!lg that this with no statutory control over that pract~ce, is not so. What amazes me Is that when possibly it can do some good. But I JUSt the Government comes up with a proposal cannot see the sense in setting up a com­ to stabilise an industry, one finds that the mittee that will set down trading practices Labor Party, which one would think wo~1ld if the committee does not have any teeth. support such a proposal, is in fact opposmg We either give it teeth and go against any it. That is a very odd set ·Of circumstances. thought of private enterprise or we leave the Others have a policy of laissez-faire, no industry alone and let it regulate itself. That controls whatsoever. In theory, tha·t sounds is what we should be doing. good. Unfortunately, it is not in the best interests of all people in all circumstances. I fully support the honourable member So implementation of control falls to the lot for Windsor, when he said, "I won't be of those who believe that there has to be allowing the Opposition to ·challenge me to a pdvate-enterprise base in an industry and vote in any way at all in this place." My certain controls for the good of the industry challenge in this place is to look after my and of all sections of the community. That electorate properly and to vote in the way might mean that .the base price of goods is in which my electorate ·thinks I should fractionally higher ·in some places, but it vote, and that ·is what I will be doing. If certainly does not mean that people are the Leader of the Opposition calls for a ripped off and are not given any service. division at the conclusion of the introductory That is what this Government is endeavour­ stage of this Bill, I will not support him. ing to do by trying to stabilise the bread I want .the Bill to be introduced so that I industry. We do not want the excesses of can read it and see what is •in it. I am hoping laissez-faire or the free-enterprise system, that it will not contain the dire provisions where the monopolies, with their scale of that some people have suggested it will operation, set up only in the lucrative markets contain. If it does, I think tha·t it will be and neglect ·the areas where sales are not useless. If ·it contains the sorts of matters great. that have been quoted in the Press, matters that are ·totally opposed to a free-enterprise Some honourable members opposite are system, I believe that I will be voting against laughing. One has only to recall what it at the second-reading stage. A.C.T.U.-Solo has done. It has set up only where large numbers of people wish to buy I do not think it is wise to go on pro­ petrol. It is not interested ·in prov.iding a tecting too far groups ·that are being over­ service in smaller communities; it is interested taken by technology. Many things have only in setting up ·in places where the scale been said in this debate last Thursday and of operations will allow it to cut prices to today, and examples have been given of the the bone. The Government wishes to avoid .types of jobs that have been lost because creating a ~imilar situation in this instance . of technology. I think that it is very unwise It wants to ensure that as many people as for us even to consider bringing in any sort possible in all parts of :the State, not only of legislation to try to protect a business people in the city, are provided with a con­ in the country that is fading out. I .think sistent product. Labor is interested only in that we should be looking at other ways cheap food for the cities. Honourable mem­ of creating employment in the country. We bers opposite have no respect for primary should not be doing it by keeping artificial producers. businesses functioning. I will support .the ·introduction of the Bill, if only to see what Mr. Goleby: They are interested only in is in it. cheap food for their supporters. Mr. SIMPSON: That is correct. Honour­ Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (3.47 p.m.): I able members on :this ~ide of the Chamber rise to suppor·t the Minister for Primary are interested in good government and in Indust•ries. He is endeavouring to stabilise seeing that no abuses occur. the bread industry, and he is establishing a Problems may arise in the bread industry bread committee to do just that. because this proposal may be implemented There are problems associated with con­ too late to save many people in the industry trolling any industry. It is a shame that who are being squeezed by large operators. people with certain affiliations do not find However, if we are interested in the develop­ this Bill acceptable to them. We know that ment of Queensland as a whole, we must people in Labor circles are supposed to give some recognition to business and believe in Government controls and socialism. industry other than in one or two places in the State. I believe that the committee will Mr. Houston: Why don'·t you stick to the bear that in mind and endeavour to see that truth? That is not true. some industry is carried on in regional areas. Mr. SIMPSON: I am sticking to the truth. I have all types of bakers in my electorate­ hot-bread kitchens, small-town bakers, and Mr. Houston: You believe in your own the larger bakers in Nambour-and all of propaganda. them would be affected by a large-scale Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill 4277 operation that could lead to a virtual mono­ the Public Service. I do not want "Hansard" poly and perhaps only one supplier of bread, to record that all Government members join who might not even be in this State. in the honourable member's attack on the Public Service. Some public servants do have Stabi1isation schemes in other industries a private-enterprise backing and are very have been for the good of all. The wheat good officers. industry was first with such a scheme, then the sugar industry, and there are varying Nobody really knows where this Bill will degre·es of control in those industries. How­ lead us. We accept it as a genuine attempt ever, those controls are in the in:terests of to try to set up an organisation that will not only the producers but also, in the long lay down some rules to ensure that there is run, the consumers. Bakers have already fair competition in the bread industry. We been forced out of operation because larger cannot allow the industry to be controlled producers of bread have in fact put bread by a small group of very powerful men. We into certain towns at a lower price until the must ensure that bread can continue to be local bakers go to :the wall. The price has baked in country towns. I wish the Minister then returned to the highest price allowed luck in what he is trying to do. in this State. That abuse has occurred, and it shows what can happen if there are no Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ controls on free enterprise. Minister for Primary Industries) (3.57 p.m.), in reply: I thank honourable members for There must be a base of private enterprise their contributions to the debate. There have so that competition, quality and competitive been 23 speakers, which indicates the interest prices will be maintained. However, it must in what I am setting about to legislate for. not be allowed to develop to the point where Whilst I thank honourable members, I can­ it takes away service or manipulates trade, not say that I agree with everything that or to a stage at which the product is no has been said. There seems to be a good longer available or is inferior. deal of confusion on the proposal. I support the Minister in his endeavour and The honourable member for Carnarvon sincerely hope that it brings about some referred to a comment made by the honour­ rationality and a continuity of supply of able member for Wavell, who expressed bread at the lowest possible price to the concern at the possibility of the bureaucracy's people of Queensland. taking control of the bread industry from Mr. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon) (3.55 private enterprise. I regret that he is not p.m.): I rise briefly to support the Minister here. I wish he were here so that I could in what he is .trying to do. Those of us who explain the position to him. represent country areas feel very sorry for He said he was in the Chamber when I our small businessmen who have to face introduced the Bill. At that time I said, unfair competition from large companies in among other things, that the committee will the cities. I know of businessmen in my area consist of six members, of whom three will who cannot even afford to buy at the price be representatives of the bread manu­ at which some large companies can afford facturers, one a representative of the bread to sell. So we must look further than the retailers, one a consumer representative, bread industry and at some of the restrictive with an independent chairman. So there is buying practices. While I have been in Par­ not even an officer of my department, which, liament, and before that time, I have been as part of the Public Service, might be concerned for the plight of small business­ termed the bureaucracy, on the committee. men in the country. I am at a loss to understand the concern I did not plan to speak at length, but expressed by the honourable member for when one Government member, to his Wavell that the bread industry will get into shame, rose and attacked public servants in the hands of the bureaucracy. He is not Queensland, I felt impelled to rise. The reading it right. I hope that some members honourable member stated that he did not will sit down and explain the position to him. know one public servant who had a private­ I might do it myself. enterprise background. By implication, both he and the member Mr. Wright: Who said this? for Pine Rivers suggested that certain mem­ bers had been given a sneak look at the Bill. Mr. McKECHNIE: It was the honourable No member was given a sneak look at the member for 'Navel!. I wish he were here Bill. The member for Hinchinbrook and the now so that he could hear my comments. member for Warwick were accused of that. He does not understand, for example, that Both of those members are on my ministerial the advisers to small businessmen, who do a primary industries committee and they were wonderful job going round the State and given what was given to the member for offering advice to small business, come from Wavell, that is, the objects of the Bill. All the ranks of private enterprise. I know that members were given that information when at least one of them does, and I think all the Bill was brought to the joint party of them do. As well, a number of D.P.I. meeting. I am at a loss to understand why officers in the Minister's department worked that implication is there-unless it was their way through law school and other mischievous. The statutory organisation is fields of study while they were employed by being established upon the recommendation private enterprise and before they entered of the committee of inquiry. That committee 4278 Bread Industry [26 APRIL 1979] Committee Bill

consisted of two people from within the The honourable member for Merthyr was bread industry and an independent chairman. rather critical. His observations were well They recommended virtually what I am now wide of the mark. I do not agree with many recommending. of his comments. I assure him that I This afternoon I do not intend to give a have absolutely no intention of following detailed answer to the points raised by the his suggestion that we do what has been 23 honourable members who spoke on this done in Victoria, New South Wales and measure. I have my officers here. Incident­ South Australia. The schemes in these States ally, Mr. Vinning was the secretary to that are recognised to a large degree as admitted committee of inquiry. I have asked him to failures. Officers of my department have make a very detailed account of my views visited those States and talked to people in of the matters raised by all honourable the various departments. They have virtually members. admitted failure. It is also a matter of record that the Western Australian legisla­ Mr. Yewdale: Would it be possible to get tion on bread return is a failure. It is a a copy of the report before the second­ pity that the honourable member allowed reading stage? himself to concentrate upon only the immed­ iate events and took advantage of material Mr. SULLIVAN: I will give consideration that no other member sought to use to to that. That is a fair request. substantiate his point of view. Clearly Unlike some honourable members who he has given no thought to the long-term have spoken, I can say that I have heard implications of his comments. It is the from all sectors of the bread industry on long-term implications that I shall deal with this matter. My officers and I have dis­ in detail in my second-reading speech. cussed this matter with all sectors of the industry, as did the committee of inquiry in I shall also demonstrate the foolishness coming to its recommendations. of the claims made by honourable members opposite that this is anti-consumer legisla­ An Opposition Member: Was that a tion. National Party committee? Coming to today's part of the debate, Mr. SULLIVAN: No. A National Party which was led by the Leader of the committee was set up to inquire into the Opposition-- bread industry. It was chaired by Mr. Lester. I have read the report made by that com­ Mr. Hodges: Give him a lift. mittee. When I refer to the committee of inquiry, I refer to that committee set up Mr. SULLIVAN: I do not want to give under an independent chairman, with two him a lift. I want to be fair; I want to members representing the bread industry. put forward my point of view and compare This legislation is based on that committee's it with his. Regrettably, when he was recommendations. I have had talks with spokesman on primary industry matters.-- small and large bakers and the consumers. I have obtained their points of view. Mr. Casey: I did a good job, too. My colleague the honourable member for Isis was correct when he said that our Mr. SULLIVAN: That is debatable. When concern is for the consumer. he was the spokesman, he continually, both inside and outside this Chamber, made state­ I hope that the Leader of the Opposition ments that were not helpful to rural indus­ is not leaving the Chamber; I want to deal tries, and only because he chose not to be later with some of his inept statements. informed by the people who know their Mr. Casey: No, I am not leaving the problems. On a number of occasions he Chamber. I want to listen to your erudite has been criticised to me by leaders of the discussion. sugar industry. He lives in and represents the city of Mackay, whose economy is Mr. SULLIVAN: I wondered if he was almost totally dependent on the sugar leaving; he spends so much time out of industry, and those leaders of the industry the Chamber. Honourable members oppos­ were at a loss to know why he would not ite have criticised this proposal as anti­ on any occasion go to them for the right consumer legislation. In the second-reading advice. I have said in this Chamber before debate I will prove them to be wrong that when the negotiations were taking place beyond doubt. We consider that the best on the long-term Japanese sugar agreement, way to protect the consumer is to ensure that and when the long and protracted negotia­ a number of bakeries remain in existence. tions were taking place on the International As my colleague the honourable member for Sugar Agreement, the statements made by Fassifem said, the legislation is designed the Leader of the Opposition-- to regain stability in the bread-manufacturing Mr. Casey interjected. and retailing industries. Some honourable members said that the Mr. SULLIVAN: The honourable mem­ legislation was 10 years too late. I cannot ber will never allow me to interject, so apologise for that because it was only in he can sit there and cop it. He has been the past few months that this matter was an embarrassment to many people. I have included in my ministerial responsibilities. said it before and I will say it again. Bread Industry Committee Bill [26 APRIL 1979] Real Property, &c., Bill 4279

Mr. Casey: I want you to comment on is for the benefit of all. I have much pleasuce how the International Sugar Agreement is in recommending the motion to the Com­ going, that is all. mittee. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Question-That the motion (Mr. Sullivan) Miller): Order! be agreed to-pu:t; and the Committee divided- Mr. Casey: I would like you to tell us how it has been an abject failure. AYES, 45 Akers Lane Armstrong Lee The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Bertoni Lester When I call for order I expect the Leader Bishop Licki's of the Opposition to obey that call and to Bje!ke-Petersen Lockwood Booth McKechnie set an example to the members he leads. Bourke Moo re The next time he disregards my call I shall Cam m M tiller warn him under Standing Order 123A. Campbell Nea! Doumany Porter Edwards Powell Mr. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Miller. Elliott Row He was an embarrassment when he was the Fraw!ey Scassola Gibbs, I. J. Simpson Opposition spokesman on primary industry Goleby Sullivan matters. The sugar industry feels that it Gunn Tomkins will not be embarrassed in the future now Gygar Turner that the honourable member for Bundaberg Hartwig V\'arner Hinze White is the spokesman, because he knows the Hodges sugar industry. Hooper, M. D. Innes Tellers: We have the Queensland Cane Growers' Kaus Ahern Council, which is a statutory organisation to Kyburz Austin look after the industry and advise the Minister NoEs, 22 on sugar-cane matters, the Queensland Grain­ Burns Scott growers' Organisation and the Queensland Casey Shaw Dairymen's Organisation. All I am trying Davis Underwood to do is set up a committee to do for the Fouras Vaughan Gibbs, R. J. Warburton bread industry what those organisations do Hooper, K. J. Wilson for their industries. The committee will be Houston Wright Jones Yewdale made up of people in the industry. The Kruger suggestion of the Leader of the Opposition­ Mackenroth Tellers: maybe he does not understand; sometimes Milliner D'Arcy people cannot get through to him--- Prest Hansen Mr. Casey: Can I ask a question? PAIR: Hewitt, N. T. E. B!ake Mr. SULLIVAN: I am making my speech. Resolved in the affirmative. I listened to the honourable member this morning and he wasted a hell of a lot of Honourable Members interjected. time. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Casey: I just want to ask a question. I have already spoken to the Leader of the Will you call them the baker's dozen? Opposition. If I am on my feet and I call order, I expect order. Mr. SULLIVAN: That is the half-smart bit again. The Leader of Her Majesty's Resolution reported. Opposition! How would you be! FmsT READING This morning he talked about the minimum Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. price that we are going to inflict on the Sullivan, read a first time. people. This is where the anti-consumer claim comes in. If he can find in my introductory remarks any mention of mini-. REAL PROPERTY ACTS AMENDMENT mum price, I will walk to Burke and BILL back and give Russ Hinze a piggyback all the way. It is just not there. The com­ INITIATION IN CoMMITTEE mittee will be a recommending authority to (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) establish ways and means of administering the bread industry and bringing some sanity Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. CooHha­ into it. Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (4.23 p.m.): ,I move- I suppoo.;;: it is politics and we have to accept it; of course, the Opposition might "That a Bill 'be ,introduced to amend the see some votes in it if they can convince Real Property Act 1861-1978 and the Real the people that the Government is trying Property Act 1877-1974 each in certain to do something to increase the price of particulars and for incidental purposes." bread. What we are trying to do, I believe, The Bill is aimed primarily at overcoming and what the bread industry and the con­ two separate problems involving caveats under suming pubEc will believe we are trying to do, the Real Property Act. The first problem 4280 Real Property [26 APRIL 1979] Acts Amendment Bill

is the continually widening use of section 30 a claim as equitable mortgagee and lodged caveats by finance companies. Until com­ under section 98 shall lapse after three paratively recent times, section 30 caveats months. This shall be the position unless were most commonly used in the situation such caveat is consented to by the registered when a registered proprietor executed a proprietor or unless, within that time, court second mortgage. proceedings are taken and notified to the Registrar of Titles. Mr. Wright: It is very difficult to hear you, Mr. Minister. Finally, the Bill deletes section 87 of the 1861 Act, which deals with .the recording Mr. LICKISS: I am sorry. A section 30 of the marriage of female proprietors. This caveat was lodged by the second mortgagee is redundant since the passing of the :to protect his interests if he was unable to Description of Women (Reference to Con­ prevail upon the first mortgagee to produce dition in Life) Act 1975. the title for registra:tion of such second mort­ gage. Historically, however, the section was I commend the Bill to the Committee. most likely directed to caveats by equitable mortgagees whose rights were created by Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (4.27 p.m.): deposit of title deeds. This is one of those rare occasions on which members of .the Opposi·tion are made aware Currently, finance companies are incorpor­ of what is proposed. Later I shall explain ating charging clauses in their loan agree­ just how I came to be given the information. ments and securing their loan by the lodgment of a section 30 caveat. Because finance I welcome this legislation because it is companies are adopting this practice, borrow­ almost exactly one year ago that I brought ers may believe that the loan is unsecured this matter ·to .the notice of Padiament. At and become aware of the true position only that time, the Minister for Justice (Hon. when they receive a notice from the Registrar W. D. Lickiss) gave me his personal under­ of Titles that a caveat has been lodged. taking that he would come to grips with the To overcome this situation, the Bill pro­ problem. It was described by the legal pro­ vides that only a mortgagee whose mortgage fession in Rockhampton as "iniquitous, immoral, underhanded and overall disgrace­ is an equitable mortgage created by the ful". deposit of the instrument of title may lodge a caveat under section 30. This will apply The problem arises from the practice only when the instrument of title is produced engaged in by certain finance companies of with such caveat. An equitable mortgage using the consumer or borrower's lack of within the meaning of the Real Property Act legal knowledge and apathy to take control is a mortgage that has not been registered of property held by him. It was a blatant with the Registrar of Titles. misuse of section 30 of the Real Property The second problem relates to the frus­ Act, under which equitable mortgages may tration being experienced by the first regis­ be created and caveats lodged. tered mortgagees on exercising their power At the outset I said that I had prior know­ of sale on default by the mortgagor. ledge of the introduction of this Bill. This Presently, an equitable mortgagee may came about because a member of the Gov­ also lodge a caveat pursuant to section 98 ernment-! do not intend to name anyone­ of the 1861 Act. Section 98 of the 1861 presented to me a statement of proposed Act is an alternative provision to section 30 changes in the Real Property Act Amend­ of the 1877 Aot by which an equitable ment Biii. These were brought to my notice mortgagee may protect his interests. because of a statement tha·t appeared in last week-end's "Sunday Mail" and revealed that The effect of a section 98 caveat is that the member for Wavell had suddenly found the caveat closes the register for a period out that a problem existed. of three months or longer if the cavea,t is lodged with the consent of either the regis­ I know it is up to members of Parliament tered proprietor or an equitable mortgagee. to get as much publicity as they possibly Consequently the registered mortgagee, on can. In view of ·the way the media treat exercising his power of sale, cannot have some of us, it is often very hard. However, the memorandum of ·transfer registered by I take exception to the way that this has the Registrar of Titles. To correct this, the been done. I have been advised that Gov­ registered mortgagee must make an applica­ ernment members were made aware of what tion to the court for the :removal of the the Minister proposed to do. section 98 equitable mor·tgagee's caveat. As the Committee would appreciate, this is Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to a point of order. time-consuming and expensive and adds I find the honourable member's comments further costs for .the mortgagor to face. offensive and untrue. He said "Government members". Obviously he is referring to me. To overcome this, the Bill allows the The story was in fact passed on to me by Registrar of Titles ·to register an instrument a bank manager. executed by a registered mortgagee, despite a caveat lodged subsequently by an equitable The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. mortgage pursuant to section 98 of the 1861 Miiier:): Order! The honourable member Act. To support the above amendment, .the cannot take exception on behalf of Govern­ Bill further provides that a caveat based on ment members. Real Property [26 APRIL 1979] Acts Amendment Bill 4281

Mr. AUSTIN: I am taking exception on to do something about, the member for behalf of myself. Wavell made a Press release saying that he had found out about the problem. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: To what? Mr. Austin: That is absolutely true. Mr. WRIGHT: I am pleased to hear the Mr. AUSTIN: To the statement made by honourable member say that. It just shows the honoumble member for Rockhampton. that the honourable member for Wavell does He referred to me in Parliament on Tuesday not bother to listen in the joint party and he has just now referred to me again. meetings when the Minister gives a detailed I find his remarks offensive and untrue and account of proposed legislation. He cannot ask him to withdraw them. have it both ways. He either knew-- The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to a point of order. The honourable member for Wavell finds I find the honourable member's statements the words offensive and I ask the honourable untrue and offensive and I ask that they member to withdraw them. be withdrawn. Mr. WRIGHT: I do not know which The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! words he says are offensive. If he is The honourable member for W a veil finds prepared to tell me, I will be prepared to the statements made by the honourable withdraw them. member for Rockhampton untrue and offens­ ive and he asks for their withdrawal. Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to a point of order and ask that the honourable member with­ Mr. WRIGHT: I am not quite sure draw the words without qualification. what I am supposed to withdraw, but to please him, and to let me continue with The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! my speech-- We all know the procedures. If an honour­ Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to a point of order. able member finds words offensive to him, I ask the honourable member to withdraw he has a right to have them withdrawn. I without qualification. ask the honourable member for Rockhamp­ ton to withdraw the words. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point of order. Mr. WRIGHT: I have never been one to challenge the ruling of the Chair, espec­ Mr. WR!GHT: Thank you, Mr. Miller. ially a ruling by you, Mr. Miller. I believe When the Minister gives a detailed explan­ it is also a procedure of the House that, ation of proposed legislation, I hope that when a member takes exception to words, other honourable members listen. It seems he must state what the words are. I have that the member for Wavell either has a not used any offensive words. I am simply magic ball or he did not know wha:t was stating a fact, namely, that the honourable going on. Somehow he did know. member made a Press release in "The Sunday Mail". I also made a point, which is a Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to a point of order. fact, that members of the Government were I find those remarks offensive and I ask given a statement relating to proposed tha:t they be withdrawn. I did know what changes, which I now table. was going on. Whereupon the honourable member laid Mr. WRIGHT: I am pleased to have the the document on the table. honourable member's admission. He said that he did not know what was going on. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! What is going on here? One minute he What the honourable member has tabled said he did not know and the next minute does not indicate that the honourable mem­ he said that he did. ber for Wavell received the information. Mr. AUSTIN: I rise to another point Unless the honourable member for Rock­ of order. In the first instance, the honour­ hampton can prove that the honourable able member implied that I put that story in member for Wavell received notification, he the Press because of the legislation. That must withdraw the words. I ask the honour­ was totally untrue. It was brought to my able member for Rockhampton to withdraw attention by a constituent. The member is the words. implying something that is totally incorrect. I object to those implications by him. Mr. WRIGHT: I go along with your direction, Mr. Miller. I accept the honour­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I able member's denial that he knew anything point out to the honourable member for about it. Wavell that the honourable member for Rockhampton has already withdrawn his It is passing strange-very strange-that remarks. I am not prepared to accept the days after Government members received honourable member's last point of order. notification of proposed changes to the Real Property Act, days after they had knowledge Mr. WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Miller, of a real problem that the Minister intended for a very wise ruling. 4282 Real Property (26 APRIL 1979] Acts Amendment Bill

I made the point that the practice of the I took the time to check with three finance finance companies was a blatant misuse of companies. It was admitted that the security section 30 of the Real Property Act. c1ause was not pointed out to the borrower. Although it has taken some time-and I They did not bother to refer to it in any way realise that there were accompanying prob­ at all. They did not stress the responsibilities lems-! am pleased that the Minister has that the borrower would have. J,t was also seen fit to take action. When making made known to me that the word "caveat" advances for various purposes, finance com­ was not mentioned. panies adopted a practice of lodging caveats When this happens, there is good reason over property owned by borrowers as extra for the Consumer Affairs Council or the law­ security. If the borrower knew that that enforcement bodies to look closely at this was to happen, I would not mind. advertising. I suggest that the Consumer Affairs Council ought to adopt a watchdog I suggested before that the practice was role and make a detailed check or in fact underhanded. Those are not just my words; carry out a detailed investigation into the they are the words of members of the advertising still being used by certain finance legal profession in my area. It was under­ companies in this State, especially where it handed because the borrowers were not pertains to unsecured personal loans. aware that the additional security was being taken. The body of the document simply I have always believed that we cannot pro­ contained a general clause, and the bor­ tect people from themselves. I would not rower signed the document totally unknow­ counsel anyone to bring down legislation to ing-totally not realising-that he had agreed protect people from themselves. But we must to grant in favour of the finance company try to create equality in the market-place. an unregistered equitable mortgage over any We must ensure that the consumer, albeit the land of any tenure that he might own now consumer of money or any goods, has every and, worse still, might purchase in the opportunity to understand his responsibilities future. No wonder members of the legal and rights. profession described this practice as ininquit­ On the other side of the ledger, the com­ ous. panies have access to the best legal brains. If we want to lay the blame anywhere, it The trouble is that it came to light a would probably be not on the finance com­ long time after the deal had been signed. panies but on the legal wizards who pointed It came to light when the borrower tried out that this could be done. In most instances, to sell the property in question. Instances that is where the problem has arisen. A were cited to me in which sales actually fell smart company lawyer, working for a finance through; instances in which vendors lost company or any other company, points out money. They were forced to pay the that it may be immoral, iniquitous or under­ real estates agents' commission and some handed, but that it is legal. This is probably legal fees. They were simply unaware that what has happened here. security had been taken over the property and, in many instances, the property in Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to question was not purchased until well after educate the consumer as to his rights in law. the time when the money was borrowed. The law is too complex. We must have laws to protect the community against obviously Another point that was brought to my unfair trade practices. This is certainly an notice is that some of the people involved unfair trade practice. I, for one, commend did not rece-ive any notice from the Registrar the Minister. I am often in conflict with the of Titles that a caveat had been lodged. I Minister for Justice, but I commend him thought that this was a requirement in law. for taking this stand. He will lose a few Maybe the Minister can refer to it in his friends. The finance companies will not be reply. They were not told and did not know very pleased with him. It will mean that the that any security had been taken over any security they have taken unfairly will be lost. property either held at that point or pur­ I note from some of the Minister's com­ chased in the future. ments and from the brief I had handed to me They thought that it was an unsecured that ,(he amendments will alieviate another personal loan. I am sure that honourable problem where the registered mortgagee is members have often seen advertisements for unable to have the memorandum of transfer unsecured loans from, I think, $200 to registered during the currency of the caveat S5,000. I know that $200 is the lesser amount. lodged under section 98 of the Real Property People can obtain these unsecured personal Act of 1861. I spoke to one of the members loans. They know full well that the interest of my justice committee outside this Parlia­ rate is high. They accept that because they ment who is interested in this field. He is are unsecured, there is a risk to the lender. very pleased to see action being taken. It It is because of this risk that they pay a high is a matter that was not brought ,to my interest rate. vVhen we realise what has been notice before. happening, no real risk has been accepted by I am sure v,e all agree that no person should the finance companies. We could ask if they suffer the waste of time and the cost of had any ethical or legal right-they cer­ having to go to court for removal of a tainly had no moral right-to charge such caveat. It is certainly costly and ,time-con­ high interest rates when the risk was not suming. As the Minister said in his brief, there. these matters were considered by the Law Real Property [26 APRIL 1979] Acts Amendment Bill 4283

Reform Commission. Now he intends to out the loan, they stipulated that their house bring about some changes. He aims to restrict was not to be mortgaged. In fact, they were the use of section 30 and provide that section really led up the garden path by the finance 98 caveats lapse after a period. I am not company because it was a specific request quite sure what it was. by them to the finance company that the house should not be mortgaged and that Mr. Ucki5:>: Three months. there should be no risk that their house Mr. WRIGHT: That falls in line with would be indebted at all. When they went normal caveats and I am pleased to see that. to the bank, the manager was unable to lend them the money. The final matter he referred to-he passed over }t brief1y, but it wi11 be accepted by I support this legislation because the people the Assemblv because it is not of great in the case I cited really suffered undue moment-was removal of the requirement hardship. Perhaps it might be said that it tlut a female person describe herself in happened through their own ignorance of documents relating to the registration of the law, but I do not believe that the average prop:orty by reference to her condi,tion in life. citizen could be expected to understand the This is :mother step towards equality. There is legal complexities of the transaction. Quite no need to dwell on it at any length except to clearlv it was a ease where the finance support it. company hoodwinked these people. It was a major finance company-let there be no As I said at the outset, I support what doubt about that-and I am sure the the Minister is doing here today. It is good honourable member for Roekhampton consumer legislation and it should be wel­ would agree that there are some major comed by the community generally. No companies involved in this practice. These doubt it will not be supported by the finance people made the decision that they did not companies that have made a lot of money want to have their house mortgaged, but out of unfair protection that, because of the finance company tricked them. I have the high interest rates they \vere charging, not seen the Bill, but having listened to the certainly WJS not their right. But it is Minister's introductory remarks, I assume certainly welcomed by Opposition members, that this problem will be overcome. I assure and whilst we wi!l look at it in detail when the Minister that he has my total support it is printed, at this stage we support it. for this legislation. Mr. AUC:.TIN (Wavell) (4.41 p.m.): I rise Hon. W. D. UCKISS (Mt. Coct-tha­ to support the Minister in his introduction Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) of this Bill. One cannot help commenting on (4.44 p.m.), in reply: I thank both honourable the speech of the honourable member for members for their acceptance of the prin­ Rockhampion. I must say that most of what ciples of the legislation. Quite some time he said was correct and I support him in ago the honourable member for Rockhamp­ \\ hai he said, except for his implication that, ton did mention this question of equitable because of the Minister's notification of the mortgages, but I would point out to him introduction of this Bill, I was privy to that the matter was already in train before information that caused the publication of a that. One of the difficulties of introducing story in "The Sunday Mail''. I assure the legislation is that one has to fit in with the Committee that that is not correct. I was legislative programme. I suppose we are all acting on behalf of one of my constituents, entitled to a fair share. From memory, who happens to be a bank manager. The already in the current session I have intro­ story is well worth relating to the Committee. duced 16 Bills and I have a further five on Mr. 'Wright: You said "a constituent". the Business Paper. I think that is probably a pretty fair crack of the whip f<:r one Mr. AUSTIN: Yes, and he is also a bank Minister. Other Ministers are pressmg to manager. have urgent legislation passed. So I imagine that one must accept the limitation of time Mr. Wdght: Well, he is 12 months behind in the legislative programme. As I say, this the times. legislation was ready quite some time ago, Mr. AUSTIN: He may very well be. As I and I am pleased to be able to introduce it said, the story is worth relating. Some other now. people in my electorate went to see him I was careful to state in clear and concise about a bank loan for renovations to their ,terms the purpose of this Bill, and I do house. On finding out that these people in not think that any further elaboration on my fact owned the house, the bank decided to part is called for. The aims of the legisla­ investigate the matter in the hope of lend­ tion are quite concise and clear. They are ing these people the money. Upon investiga­ to stop a practice followed over quite a tion of the deeds of the house the bank considerable period that, in many minds, has discovered that there was a caveat on the not been a good practice. house. This was not known by the bank's clients. 1l1e bank manager inquired and I shall leave it a,t that until the Bill is found that at some stage these people had examined in detail. If any further queries taken out an unsecured personal loan for are raised as the Bill passes through the either $1,000 or $2,000. I am not sure of House, I shall be only too happy to answer the exact figure. \Vhen these people took them. 4284 Trusts Act [26 APRIL 1979) Amendment Bill

Motion (Mr. Lickiss) agreed to. cannot include Queensland in its range of Resolution reported. services, because it does not come within the present de.finition of "bank" in the Trusts FIRST READING Act. Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. I commend the Bill to the Committee. Lickiss, read a first time. Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (4.51 p.m.): When I heard the Minister give notice of TRUSTS ACT AMENDMENT BILL this Bill some days ago, I took it upon myself to discuss the matter with some local INITIATION IN COMMITTEE authorities. I spoke to the Brisbane City Council, and also to a local authority in (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) my own area. No-one was able to tell me Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ why the legislation would be proposed, and Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) it was mentioned to me that back in 1975 (4.48 p.m.): I move- changes were made to allow local authorities to accept and hold on trust any real property, "That a Bill be introduced to amend the especially if it was for charitable and public Trusts Act 1973 in certain particulars." purposes. Although I was aware that there The Bill is aimed primarily at overcoming an was some move to create trusts for recrea­ anomaly which has recently become apparent tional facilities, I would have thought that within the Trusts Ac:t. "public purposes" included recreational pur­ As the Act presently stands, a local auth­ poses. However, the Minister clarified the ority cannot be appointed a sole trustee of matter to some extent when he spoke about sole trustees of existing trusts. That is a an existing trust where two or more trustees matter that I shall look at very carefully were originally appoil1Jted. A local authority, when the Bill is printed. however, may be appointed a sole trustee of a new trust. It is important that local authorities are This situation was referred to the Law enabled to continue the role that they are Reform Commission, which recommended playing in providing facilities for the com­ that the Act be amended to allow a local munity especially in the area of recreation. authority to be appointed as a sole trustee In the' past, this has been mainly in the of an existing trust. It was further recom­ form of land, and I am sure that all hon­ mended, however, that the purpose for which ourable members will agree that this has been appreciated by the many organisations the local authority could become a sole that have benefited by a showing of interest trustee would be limited to- by local authorities. There is a growing (a) The purposes of recreation or other demand not only on local authorities but leisure time use or occupation; and also on' the Government, to expand this role (b) Any charitable or public purpose. in the field of recreation. There is a demand It was also felt desirable in the public to increase financial assistance, the admini­ interest that the trust documents should strative expertise that is made available always be aYailable for scrutiny if necessary. through National Fitness and recreational To achieve this, the transfer of title to the offices, and also the physical facility of land. local a:uthority as sole trustee is to be by It has been part of the role of local way of nomination of trustees, to which docu­ authorities to own land, or to hold land ment a copy of the trust instrument must be in freehold or fee simple. That is their attached before lodgment with the Registrar right as bodies corporate under the Local of Titles. By this means, the provisions of Authorities Act. But it seems that there the trust will a1ways be available for inspec­ is now a problem. tion by all members of the public. It is important for the Opposition to look Also, all other transfers to a local auth­ at these matters very carefully and, once ority shall be accompanied by a statutory the Bill is printed, I shall discuss the proposal declaration signed by the transferer, declaring with members of local authorities and then that the land is not being transferred to the speak on it in greater detail at the second local authority as a sole trustee. reading. With reference to the second amendment, As to the question of the Primary Indus­ the Primary Industry Bank of Australia trv Bank of Australia Limited-this matter Limited requested an amendment to the w~s raised previously. I begin to wonder de.finition of "bank" in the Trusts Act. Such whether it has been brought forward because an amendment is necessary for the bank to of lack of definition or because of the finan­ be an authorised investment for trustees in cial difficulties that the bank is now having Queensland within the meaning of the Trusts throughout Australia. Act. Mr. Lickiss: 1t has not been able to Presently, the Primary Industry Bank of operate in Queensland. Australia Limited is making funds available for loans to primary producers in Queensland Mr. WRIGHT: It has not been able to. and the bank has indicated it intends to go Perhaps if it is now able to operate in to the public for funds. Unfortunately, it Queensland and gather funds, it may be Trusts Act, &c., Bill [26 APRIL 1979] Canals Act, &c., Bill 4285

able to overcome some of its financial diffi­ CANALS ACT AMENDMENT BILL culties. I am just asking the reason for this INITIATION IN COMMITTEE proposal. Mr. Lickiss interjected. (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair)

Mr. WRIGHT: All right; I accept that. Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister It is not only going to be a bank with which for Maritime Services and Tourism) ( 4.55 p.m.): I move- people can invest; it is also going to be a lender. I would hope that there would be "That a Bill be introduced to amend The Canals Acts, 1958 to 1960 in certain some benefit from that. particulars." Honourable members on this side of the The Bill is a short measure and the principal Chamber have no opposition to the intro­ provisions may be summarised as follows­ duction of the Bill. (a) Bringing within the ambit of the Act the construction and maintenance of Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ access channels to canal estates; Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) (b) Clarifying the definition of "canal" (4.53 p.m.), in reply: The honourable mem­ so as to clearly exclude waterways which ber for Rockhampton raised some doubts are connected to tidal water in such about the purpose of the Bill in relation manner that they themselves are not tidal; to a local authority being able to hold a (c) Maintenance of canals and access trust as the sole trustee. This stemmed channels to be the direct responsibility of originally from a case in the Broadwater the local authority as a function of local area, near Dalby, where there was an exist­ government; ing trust and the trustees wished to get out (d) Repealing section 20 of the Act, of the trust and transfer their interest to the which provides for the resumption of land local authority. It was found that, although where the owner, by not proceeding with a loaal authority may be appointed as its development as a canal estate, is sole trustee in a new trust, it could not take impeding the development of other canal over as sole trustee of an existing trust. The areas; and purpose of the Bill is to enable that to be (e) Increasing maximum penalties for done. various offences against the Act and abolishing minimum penalties. Mr. Wright: It is just that section 34 (16) allows it to hold property in trust at the I shall now deal with the Bill in detail. moment. In the development of canal estates, the canals are usually constructed with immediate connection with a navigable waterway, such Mr. LICKISS: It cannot take over an as the canals connected with the Nerang existing trust and hold it as sole trustee. River at the Gold Coast. In a recentlv Mr. Wright: I cannot see any opposition approved canal estate development at to that. Deception Bay, in order for boats to obtain access to navigable water a navigable channel Mr. LICKISS: T11e sole purpose of the Bill needs to be constructed from the estate across the wide shallow foreshore at Deception is to facilitate that. In writing that in, we Bay. are also writing in certain precautions, that is, that to hold it there must be a trust The construction of the access channel was deed in existence. approved pursuant to the Harbours Act, which requires that all structures to be con­ Mr. Wright: And that should be accessible structed below high water mark be subject to the public. to the approval of the Governor in Council. However, the construction of an access Mr. LICKISS: That will be accessible to channel to a canal estate does not at present the public, to ensure that the public is aware fall within the ambit of the Canals Act and, of the purpose of the tmst. as it is desirable for canals and access chan­ nels in a canal estate development to be That in a nutshell is the purpose of the subject to approval and other controls includ­ Bill, and I do not think I need take it any ing maintenance responsibilities under the further. I again commend the motion to the Canals Act, the Bill amends the Act by Committee. including access channels within the present definition of the term "canal". Motion (Mr. Lickiss) agreed to. The term "access channel" is defined in Resolution reported. the Bill as any artificial channel constructed in tidal water in association with the con­ struction of a canal and connected or FIRST READING intended to be connected to such canal, and Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. any training wall or other works associated Lickiss, read a first time. with such artificial channel. 4286 Canals Act (26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

An access channel will then fall within The Gold Coast City Council, in whose the ambit of the Act, and be subject to the area most of the canal estates are situated, approval provisions and other provisions of has requested ,that the maintenance of canals the Act as apply in respect of the ordinary be the direct responsibility of the council. As canal deYelopments. far as the practical effect is concerned, the amended provisions relative ,to the burden The Bill proYides that where an application of maintenance costs will be no different includes the construction of an access chan­ from those presently existing. Instead of nel, it may be a condition of approval that charging the cost of maintenance to a local training vvalls and specified works be pro­ authority through a precept issued by the vided in respect of the access channel to harbour board on the local authority, the the satisfaction of the Governor in Council. Bill provides that the maintenance of canals, including access channels, shall be the direct The clarification of the definition of responsibility of the local authority as a "canal" in respect of non-tidal waterways function of local government. is desirable in view of the possibility of the construction of waterways which exclude A local authority is empowered under the tidal effects by means of locks and weirs. Local Government Act, in carrying out works Such waterways will be of interest to the as a function of local government, to meet Department of Harbours and Marine only the costs of the function from the general in relation to the structure which abuts tidal rate or, if it so decided, by the levy of a water. The exclusion of such waterways special rate or separate rate on a benefited from the definition of "canal" will mean that area determined by ,the local authority. their construction and maintenance will be controlled by local authorities under the Where the local authority decides ,(o meet proYisions of the Local Government Act the canal maintenance costs from the gen­ relating to lakes, etc., constructed in the eral rate, there is provision in the Local Government Act for the maintenance to be course of a subdivisional development. carried out during the year in which the The Bill requires that the approval of rate is levied or, if the local authority so the Governor in Council be obtained for the decides, to transfer an annual amount to a transfer of provisional approval or final reserve fund for the purpose of equalising approval granted for the construction of the mruintenance costs against each year. As canals from one developer to another before maintenance work might not be necessary in each year, the reserve fund allows the build­ the canal con~truction has been completed. ing up of monies to meet the maintenance The next provision in the Bill deals with when due. maintenance of canals including access chan­ If the local authority, however, decides to nels. The present law requires ,that the main­ meet canal maintenance costs by way of the tenance of canals be carried out by the levy of a special rate or a separate rate on Harbour Board, with the Harbour Board a benefited area, there is no provision in the issuing a precept on the local authority ,to Local Government Act for the proceeds of recoYer the costs involved and the local such a rate ,to be transferred to a r,eserve authority in turn having the right to recover fund. Accordingly, the Bill contains provision the cost through a benefited area rating for the establishment of such a reserve fund determined by the Minister for Local Gov­ to be called the Canal Maintenance Reserve ernment. Fund, which may be be established by the Since the Canals Act came into force in local authority in the circumstances where a 1958, it has never been necessary for the special rate or separate rate is levied. maintenance procedure prescribed by the Act The Bill also provides that the whole or to be brought into operation in respect of part of the proceeds of the special or sep­ canals. The reason for this is that most of arate rate may be transferred to the reserve the canals have generally been maintenance­ fund. free and where maintenance has been neces­ sary the dredging has been carried out by The next provision in the Bill protects the local authority direct, by arrangement with appLicants against any actions which might the Deparctment of Harbours and Marine. otherwise be brought again~t them for The dredged material has in one instance nuisance, encroachment or obstruction in been used by the local authority to improve respect of the construction or placement of beaches, and in other cases has been sold an access channel. The Bill provides that as filling to defray the cost of the work. applicants are not liable where the Governor Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979} Amendment Bill 4287 in Council gives final approval to the con­ resumption of the land by the local auth­ struction of the access channel. The provision ority, the owner of the first parce-l of land is identical with a provision in the Harbours .would then be in a position ~o proceed with Act in respect of structures approved under his canal development upon obtaining the that Act and erected below high-water mark. necessary approvals. Mr. Burns: What happens if it is not in The section concerned was inserted in the tidal areas? Act in 1959 and has never been operated upon. In fact, there has been no town Mr. HODGES: As I said in my opening planning scheme in force in any local auth­ remarks, it does not come into it. ority specifying that land is to be subject Mr. Burns: You say {hat a canal is .to canal development. Areas which the defined as a lake. What about a freshwater local authority considers can best •be developed lake? with a canal system al'e merely shown in town planning schemes as areas to be Mr. HODGES: I am referring to where an developed for residential purposes. No scheme access channel is associated with tidal waters. goes so far as providing that the land must be developed for residential purposes only by The next provision in the Bill amends the means of canals, and accordingly this situ­ present provisions which indemnify relevant ation alone has made the section inoperative. authorities and officers against actions for damages in respect of approvals and respon­ In any case, even if a town planning sibilities under the Aot. As harbour boards scheme did provide for residential develop­ are no longer ·involved in maintenance of ment to be by canal subdivision, the principle canals and local authorities will be so of a local authority stepping in and resuming responsible, consequential amendments to the land of the reluctant owner mainly for these provisions are necessary. The Marine the benefit of another developer is con­ Board has also been included m the indem­ sidered to be an unnecessary deprivation of nity provision. the rights of the owner of the land in The next provision ~n the Bill repeals the question in that it does not allow him to present section in the Act which deals with make his own decisions concerning the timing the subdivision of land where a town plan­ and nature of the development of his ning scheme provides that the land shall be property. subdivided by means of a canal or system The section will the·refore be repealed .and of canals. The present section provides for where two parcels of land constitute an area the case where one land-owner who desires which shows the best potential for develop­ to develop a canal estate in accordance with ment as one canal system, i.t will remain a such a town planning scheme is frustrated matter for the respective owners to agree by the inactivity of an adjoining land-owner upon detailed proposals for development. whose land is also planned by the town plan­ Failing agreement, one or other of the ning scheme for development within the same owners may have 'to be content, at least in canal system. the short .term, to put his property to other In such a case the law provides that the uses or find a means of development which owner of the first parcel, if he satisfies the does not involve the other property. local authority that he desires, and has the This type of situation is not peculiar to finance available, to subdivide the land by canal developments and no reason is seen to the provision of a canal and that he cannot retain what appears to be a rather drastic so provide until the owner of the other parcel means of resolution for canal areas which of land provides a canal in respect of his is not followed in respect of other situations parcel, may obtain the assistance of the local where two properties could be developed to authority in having the matter progressed. If a greater potential jointly than separately. it deems it to be in the public interest, the local authority, after the serving of a notice, Finally, the Bill increases maximum penal­ is empowered to resume the land of the ties for various offences against the Act. The second owner for the purpose of enabling Bill substantially increases the existing the local authority itself to subdivide and penalties as the penalties have not been develop such land in accordance with its revised since the Act came into force in town planning scheme. The resumption 1958, and also for the reason that the Bill notice by the local authority is subject to removes the stipulation that offenders are the right of appeal by the land-owner. Upon to be subject to a penalty not less than 4288 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

the minimum included in 'the le&islation. In out by the various harbour boards, no doubt future it will be for the court to decide at the direction of the Department of concerning the level of penalty necessary to Harbours and Marine. match the severity of the offence, subject only to the maximum penalty provided in the We have not been provided with a copy Bill. of the Bill, of course, but the Minister might just clarify the definition of where a canal The various new penaities are as follows:- is subject to tidal influence. I take it that Constrw::ting a canal without approval or the line of demarcation will be set at the contrary to plans, specifications or con­ high-water spring-tide mark and that the ditions-not exceeding $100,000 and not waters below that point will come under the exceeding $2,000 for each day the offence jurisdiction of the Department of Harbours continues. and Marine and those above it will come under the local authority. That is the way Failure of a person convicted of such I interpreted it as I listened to the Minister's an offence to comply with notice to restore introductory remarks. If I am incorrect, the land to its former condition-not the Minister will probably sort it out for exceeding $2,000 for each day the offence me at a later stage. continues. Selling land before the publication in the The Bill brings the construction and main­ Gazette of the certificate of the Marine tenance of access channels to canal estates Board that the canal has been satisfactorily within the ambit of the Act. The Minister completed-not exceeding $5,000. outlined a problem that arose in Deception General penalty for offence against the Bay. I presume that the channel would then Act-not exceeding $1,000. become an access to the canal development, and, if it is below the high-water spring­ Penalty for offence against regulations­ tide mark, the Department of Harbours and not exceeding $1,000 and not exceeding Marine will carry out the dredging, mainten­ $100 for each day the offence continues. ance and cleaning of that channel as it enters I commend the Bill to the Committee. the shallows. I have asked the Minister to clarify this point, but as I understand it, Mr. JONES (Cairns) (5.9 p.m.): Heavy all areas above the high-water spring-tide penalties were provided in the original Act mark will become the responsibility of the if canals were not cons,tructed properly. It local authority. The Minister said that the would appear that the intention of that definition of "canal" will clearly set out legislation was to place restrktions on sub­ those waterways that are connected with divisions of land whose value would be tidal water and those that are not tidal, increased by canal development. These and that might clear up the interjection by restrictions were applied in 1958 for the first the honourable member for Lytton in rela­ time in Queensland's hiSJtory, poss1bly because tion to freshwater streams controlled by of the development that was taking place on local authorities, which might include lakes. the South Coast, particularly in the Nerang River area. That development was the It is an entirely new concept that the motivating force behind the introduction of maintenance of canals and access channels that legislation. Since then, as the M:inister will be the direct responsibility of local has said, we have seen the extension of this authorities. It will become the function of type of development to Deception Bay. This the local authority to construct and maintain has naturally broadened the concept. canals. The development of a canal estate is quite a big job, and I would suggest that Traditionally the control of these waters there are some local authorities along the has been the responsibility of the Depart­ Queensland coast that would not be in ment of Harbours and Marine. It appears a position to finance that sort of develop­ that these amendments will change the ment if they were confronted with such a traditional approach to canal development proposition. Iwasaki just came in and said, for residential purposes. Since the intro­ "Bingo, we are coming into that particular duction of the Act in 1958 it has been area." If the project happened to be a amended only once, in 1959. It is now being canal development, I wonder how the repealed, and the responsibility not only for responsible local authority would handle the construction but for the maintenance the situation. While the resources of the of canals is being transferred to local auth­ Department of Harbours and Marine and orities. Previously this work was carried the Local Government Department would be Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4289

at the local authority's disposal, I am quite The Minister also mentioned possible con­ sure that the work would have some shatter­ struction in a tidal waters area. I shall ing effects on the local authority's finances. take my own area, Cairns, although I doubt whether we would see such a development The Minister said that these amendments there for some time because there could be were initiated on suggestions from the Gold some problems. But it could eventuate Coast City Council. I can understand that, on the south-eastern side of the inlet. Per­ with its experience in these matters, it haps some of the farmland that C.S.R. has would prefer to accept the responsibility, but on that side of the inlet could be developed I am sure that many local authorities would for residential purposes. I take it that, if shy away from accepting that responsibility. such a development involved locks, weirs and If all structures above the high-water mark so on to regulate the flow of water, and are now to be subject to approval by the if that development was below the high­ Governor in Council before the local author­ water spring tide mark, the responsibility ity can give its approval, perhaps that will for maintenance would rest with the Depart­ represent some control. I point up the fact ment of Harbours and Marine. The Minister that local authorities will find themselves in might care to clear up that point in his dire straits in building access channels into reply. tidal waters and constructing the associated works. It is proposed that the Governor in Council approve of the transfer of a development The Canals Act was first introduced into that is in the construction stage. That is this Parliament in 1958, and now, 21 years probably designed to ensure that one devel­ later, we are amending it. A number of oper does not pass on some shonky develop­ problems could arise for local authorities ment to another developer. That has hap­ in the next 21 years. pened over a period, and I hope that in such circumstances purchasers will be protected. An access channel, apparently, will be Sometimes people buy provisionally or put defined by the Bill as an artificial channel moneys in before the completion of the constructed in tidal water. If that is the estate, and I hope that they will be fully intention, what will be the position with protected in the transfer and that that matter access to a canal that might be developed will be looked at by the Governor in Council. in the hinterland, say, in the Tinaroo area? Would the development and associated works Probably it is a little bit awkward to have come under the control of the local author­ the harbour board carrying out maintenance ity, and would it then be the responsibility of canals and then issuing a precept to the of the Minister for Lands, Forestry and local authority to recover the cost, and I can Water Resources or the Minister for Mari­ understand why the Gold Coast City Council time Services and Tourism? needs to be able to make a direct approach. It appears that it will have the right to Mr. Hodges: The local authority. recover such additional cost through rating of the benefited area-! think that is pro­ Mr. JONFS: If it is a freshwater develop­ vided in the Local Government Act-and ment, the local authority has complete con­ the rate is determined by the council, the trol? Minister or the Governor in Council. Mr. Hodges: Yes. The question is: Who are the benefited Mr. JONES: That point is cleared up. I parties? I hope that the council-and this is take it that responsibility for all access chan­ mentioned elsewhere-is going to charge the nels in tidal waters will rest with the Depart­ people living on the canals who benefit ment of Harbours and Marine? directly. I do not know who else could bene­ fit. There is reference to the money coming Mr. Hodges: Yes. from the general fund. Of course, the money will have to go into some fund, and I Mr. JONES: That clears up that point. suppose that is all right as long as the people The local authority will have complete who do not benefit directly are not required responsibility for access channels to a canal to pay increased rates to assist the silver-tails development at, say, Tinaroo? who have bought blocks on new canal Mr. Hodges: Yes. developments that the ordinary person could not afford to buy. I am looking for some Mr. JONFS: I think that clears up that protection so that the local authority will not point. be drawing on the general fund to meet the 74755-142 4290 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

cost, because experience has shown that not event, rates Wtill rise. Perhaps the answer lies all local authorities have the integrity and in equalising ·the costs to the benefited rate­ credibility that we would like them to have. payers over a period of years and putting the revenue collected into a separate fund. With dredging now to be carried out I hope that the ordinary ratepayer will not directly by a local authority by arrangement be left to caNy the 'burden. with the Department of Harbours and Marine, I expect that the equipment needed The Minister referred to the setting up to dredge and clean the canals would be of a maintenance fund. Once again jt is made available by the department. If it is not, a case of "may", not "shall". If the charges the situation will be similar to that on the are levied year by year, possibly the ordinary Cairns inlet, where the "Trinity Bay" carried •ratepayer will be protected against being hit out dredging. The harbour board is now to leg for the benefit of a particular area. dependent on the Department of Harbours In general terms, the Bill is a machinery and Marine to send up the "Sir Thomas one that allows a local authority to resume Hiley", if and when it is available, to get land. This brings to mind the right of the harbour dredged. I cannot see the invest­ appeal. If a developer has his land resumed, ment in capital equipment to carry out at what point may he appeal? Is it upon dredging being underwritten by the local resumption? authority. Mr. Hodges: The section has been Mr. Hodges: Many have their own dredges repealed. and are doing it now. Mr. JONES: Does that mean that, if Mr. JONES: I hope that the ratepayers there is no resumption by the council, and in the benefited areas pay for that and that the next-door neighbour wants to develop the cost will not be an imposition on the but the owner does not, the owner can ordinary ratepayers who have blocks of land please himself? on dirt roads, with no kerbing and channel­ ling, on the outskirts of a town, such as we Mr. Hodges: That is right. see in some local authority areas now. Mr. JONES: He can tell his next-door I note that the Minister said that the neighbour either to go .to hell or to buy •it? material dredged from the canals has in some instances been used by the local authority Mr. Hodges: Yes. or sold. Sand and gravel dredging, and all Mr. JONES: That is reasonable enough. that that entails, could present some I note that the 1959 amendment has been problems for a local councillor who has canal deleted. The right of a local authority to development thrust upon him. Some would step in and resume land from a reluctant not be able to cope with the problems con­ owner is wiped from the Act and it •is left fronting them in sand and gravel-mining to his own discretion. areas. We have seen, both in this Chamber and outside, the problems faced by (Time expired.) individuals involved in that industry. Pre­ viously, the burden of maintenance costs was Mr. FOURAS (South Brisbane) (5.29 shared by the harbour board and the local p.m.): I rise to speak firstly about the canal authority. Now it will become the direct development that is occurring at Kawana responsibility of the local authority alone. on the Sunshine Coast. The subject first It will be responsible for the maintenance of raised its ugly head when Kawana Estates canals and access canals. This will entail Pty. Ltd. began to dredge a small mangrove increased expenditure by the local authority, island in the Mooloolah River immediately with a resultant heavier burden on the rate­ downstream from the Nicklin Way bridge. payers. The residents in the area were led to believe that the island and another further down­ If the costs are going to be met from the stream would not be touched. general rate, 1t will be an imposition on all ratepayers. I stress that point. I think the Public interest has been aroused and Minister said that a local authority may many people have delved deeper into the decide to impose a levy or, alternatively, a development and the development lease. special or separate mte upon .the benefited Some rather interesting facts have come to area. On the other hand, it may not so light. Many citizens have expressed concern decide. It is like the old story of "Mar-mite about the removal of mangroves in the river or "Mar-mite not"; it is indefinite. In any and the possibility of flooding of areas Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4291 adjacent to existing canals and the river Meanwhile, the proposed canals are being itself if proposed canals south of the Nicklin dug. Questions have been asked but no Way are allowed to be constructed. answers have been forthcoming. It is obvious that nice letters to the Premier will not The reason for this is that the natural flood achieve anything. It is time that the people plains between Caloundra and Kawana absorb concerned got answers in the proper place. part of the flood water, whilst the remainder I believe in seeking the answers in this either flows down the Mooloolah River or, Chamber. This is the proper place for most importantly, eastwards across the answers to be given. Nicklin Way, and thence seeps under the frontal sand dunes into the sea. With the I shall now quote from a letter that the construction of canals south of the Nicklin Premier sent in reply to representations about Way, the easterly flow of floodwaters will the Kawana Estates canal development. It be turned back into the Mooloolah River read, in part- and must cause flooding because of the small size of the river and its narrow mouth. "It is true that following a dispute between the developer and the Local Under the terms of the original develop­ Authority, it was agreed that a model ment lease granted in 1960 and amended study of the flow between the Meridian in 1962, a condition was imposed that no Plains and Point Cartwright would be canals could be built without a hydraulic undertaken. Professor McKay of the study being carried out. The cost of the Queensland University was consulted and study was then estimated at $16,000, with he expressed the opinion that results would the cost to be borne jointly by the developer be inconclusive. As an alternative it was and the local authority, which in this decided to commission Messrs. Cardno and instance is the Landsborough Shire Council, Davies to undertake a flood study. This in conjunction with the State Government. was not accepted by the Department of The hydraulic survey was never carried out, Harbours and Marine and the Lands­ yet canals were built. borough Shire Council. It was then decided Surely I am entitled to ask here why the to develop a model and study of the whole hydraulic study was not carried out. Since flood plain." the matter has been brought to public atten­ tion, work has been undertaken to build a The study should have been carried out long model to carry out the hydraulic study. The before. It is now estimated to cost more cost is now estimated to be more than than $500,000. $500,000 and it is to be funded jointly by the development company and the Land It must be noted that the Premier referred Administration Commission. While the to Professor McKay and an opmwn model is being built, canals are still being expressed by him. Typically, the Premier's dug south of the Nicklin Way. Why have the statement was a half-truth. He did not really Government departments concerned allowed outline what Professor McKay meant. Pro­ the canals to be built without knowing the fessor McKay's opinion was that results result of the survey? Why is current work would be inconclusive owing to the lack of being allowed to proceed without the results sufficient survey work being done. of the survey? Furthermore, does it mean that the hydraulic survey, for which the Later in the Premier's letter, this appears- public funding exceeds $250,000, is nothing "In the downstream area the Company more than a front to keep the public quiet, has obtained the necessary permit and/or as the results will have no bearing on the approvals under the Marine Acts, Harbours construction or otherwise of proposed canals Act and Fisheries Act to carry out the south of the Nicklin Way? works presently being undertaken in the development of their Minyama Waters In a letter, the Premier gave assurances Estate . . . In granting this approval, that no canals were being dug south of the cognisance was taken of the Queensland Nicklin Way. He was then sent photographs Fisheries Service's advice that, since the of the work. After receiving the photo­ development formed part of a canal pro­ graphs, he replied that the matter would be posal already approved in overall concept, fmther investigated. What a wonderful the developer could destroy any mangroves phrase! Nothing was being done, but when growing on the subject area." he received the photographs he replied that the matter would be further investigated. Surely that is begging the question. 4292 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

The terms of settlement agreed to on 21 I should now like to ask the Minister August 1972 contained safeguards that have some questions on this matter. Could he not been adhered to. I have the terms of tell the Committee if and when the agree­ settlement with me. They read, in part- ment was altered to allow mangrove clearing ". . . any part of the developed area and earthworks on this land? If the agree­ may be developed . . . with only such ment has not been altered, can the Minister parts of the canal sections being constructed assure the Committee that the matters will as are necessary to drain the parts of be drawn to the attention of Lands Depart­ the area being developed and with the ment officers, the Department of Harbours depth of the canal sections so constructed and Marine and the Landsborough Shire corresponding with the fill required for the Council to ensure that this beautiful reserve part of the area being so developed." will not be changed in any way? Two areas are threatened-the reserve along portion The agreement refers to what I spoke about, 457 on the riverbank downstream from the that is, the undertaking of a flood study. Nicklin Way bridge to Goat Island and the The terms of settlement continue- reserve upstream from the same bridge to "The Crown agrees to contribute one­ the end of portion 457. third of the cost to £8,000 and the Com­ I reiterate that the terms of settlement pany and the Council each agree to in 1962 required the construction of a model. contribute one-third of the total cost We should be asking why this has not of £8,000 for the investigation and con­ happened. It is 16 years since then and struction of the model of the Mooloola:h the model has not been built, yet the com­ River and its flood plain from Meridan pany apparently has been allowed to con­ Plains to the bar at Point Cartwright." struct a canal in Minyama Waters, which is This is a 1962 document and in 1978 the virtually ready to be opened into the river; Premier's letter said that that is what we and the company has dammed and dredged have to do. It is scandalous that develop­ another area of the river itself, activities ment leases are being given out and the which the public were led to believe were Government is not making the people who to be the subject of testing with the model. get good money out of developing these I ask the Minister: what earthworks was places meet their commitments. It is about the company given permission to undertake time that something was done about it in this Assembly. before the model test? What is the intention of having a model test at all at this late The document further says- stage? It is not good enough at all for "The Company will initiate the prepar­ concerned citizens to be given the run­ ation of the model as soon as the cost around. If we can go by what has happened thereof is in hand." to the Landsborough Shire Council, they are told that it is an estate matter. If they go I suppose it took 16 years to get a quote to the local member for Landsborough, Mr. on it! The document continues- Ahern, he tells them that the Minister is "The Company's Consulting Engineers unsympathetic. To compound it, the Govern­ and the Council's Engineers to be entitled ment hides behind Development Lease No. 2 to participate in the decisions as to Agreement which it is not forcing the survey and other data to be used in the developer to carry out. planning and testing of the model." As an example of what is happening, I What has happened at Kawana is very serious. shall quote a letter. I do not like doing this. Many citizens are concerned. It is a letter from the honourable member I should like to deal with other aspects for Landsborough to Kawana Advancement of that Crown Development Lease No. 2 Association. I am not trying to embarrass with Caloundra-Mooloolabah Development the honourable member. I have sympathy Corporation Pty. Ltd. The company, now for him. However, I feel I must read the known as Kawana Estates, has already moved letter because it proves what is going on. into and has begun to develop a section of The honourable member for Landsborough ·this esplanade--what was stated in the was concerned about the matter and he said schedule as areas of land under the agreement in his letter- adjacent to portion 457. This area is not "Each time I have raised this with part of that company's lease and, as far Ministers I am afraid that I have not as I am aware, remains Crown land. had a sympathetic hearing." Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4293

He went on to say- ,to a stricken trawler outside. The river "I believe there is a very serious lesson has also stranded scores of southern tourists to be learnt here, that being that Gov­ whose speedboats have !fun aground, even at ernments should not bind their successors £ull tide. I think that behind it all is the too far into the future, particularly where fact that the State authorities are pandering environmental matters are concerned." to a wealthy developer. I think that must be said. It was the developer's waterfront It appears that the power of the Lands­ blocks, selling for $24,000 each, that were borough Shire Council has been seriously threatened by serious erosion when the eroded by State authorities, and it further Noosa bar was in its ocriginal position. There appears that the honourable member for were predictions that a decent cyclone would Landsborough has been unsuccessful in trying virtually wash the island away. ,to force the Government to protect the envi,ronment. Mr. Burns: These are the canals that were built by Cambridge Credit. On 21 March I asked a question regarding development lease No. 3 under the Crown Mr. FOURAS: That is right, they were Development Act in the name of Suncoast originally built by a subsidiary of Cambridge Development Ltd. I asked- Credit. I think the company was called Noosa Island Estates. Many residents, "Did the developers comply with all of fishermen and other concerned people are ,the proVISIOns in the schedules and angry that this project went ahead. Where appendages to the lease?" did the State Government ,find its share of I was trying to point out that neither the money? I think in effect it ,is the old development lease No. 2 nor development story of the State Government's coming in lease No. 3 had been complied with. In to help the big developer. Once again, it his reply the Minister for Lands said- is the old story of big money talking. "Having regard to all circumstances, I believe that the Assembly ought to be those conditions have been and are being given answers to some of the points I have performed dn a satisfactory manner." raised today, and I look forward to getting The Minister evaded the question, because these replies from the Minister. those conditions have not all been complied Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (5.44 p.m.): I with. In another part of the question I noted ,that in the Minister's introductory asked- speech he said that the maintenance of " If the developers failed to comply on canals and access channels is to be the direct time or if any provision of the lease was responsibility of the local authority as a varied, will he detail the items concerned?" function of local government. Again the Minister said- Mr. Scott interjected. "Having regard to all circumstances, including the fluctuat,ions in the economy Mrs. KYBURZ: You listen! The honour­ in the real estate field . . . it is considered able member should be able ,to understand that the lessee has reasonably satisfied my English, so he can work it out. I the time requirements of the lease." believe that in some ways some local authori­ ties have absolved themselves from responsi­ That is marvellous! I am trying to point bilities that in the past they have either out that the Government, through its not been able or not sought to take upon departments, is not doing its job. themselves, so I 1hink this is an extremely In the time I have left I want to briefly important provision. Some local autho'l'ities, mention ano,ther matter, and that is the and I hesitate to name them because my colleagues now reside in some of them, State Government's involvement in the $1,600,000 project of shifting the Noosa have made a boon out of canal development Heads bar to prevent a prestige land and have done very little as far as rating and benefited areas are concerned to take development from dropping into the sea. This has resulted :in a lack of water in the Noosa back from those canal developers the money that they ought to have been providing for River, which has stranded a fishing fleet the maintenance of the canals. and left the river a mass of exposed sand­ banks and perilous oyster clumps. Many The Minister also mentioned that, where a fishermen have left the area. I wonder why? local authority decides to meet canal main­ A coastguard vessel was grounded twice on tenance costs by way of the levy of a special the new bar while attempting to get parts rate or a separate rate on a benefited area, 4294 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill there is no provision in the Local Govern­ to specify that a canal development will take ment Act for the proceeds of such a rate place. I was particularly concerned about to be transferred to a reserve fund. Now, section 20. they will be able to be so transferred. I think that that is extremely important, I realise that areas that a local authority because I believe that local authorities have considers can best be developed with a canal had to make difficult decisions on canal system are merely shown on a town plan development. as areas to be developed for residential pur­ poses. When people make an application to There is no doubt that we are moving the local authority for canal development, behind the times. In fact, we are probably I suppose that they are given the go-ahead 40 years behind the times with these pro­ from the local authority if the development visions. Canal developments were imported is feasible. However, no scheme goes so far from elsewhere, and there is no doubt that as providing that the land must be we have been slow in introducing amend­ redeveloped for residential purposes only by ments to the Act to keep up with changing means of canals, and I think that that is circumstances. extremely important. It seems quite frighten­ ing to me that a local authority could have I listened most intently to the points made the power to do that. Certainly the Opposi­ by the member for South Brisbane, and I tion did not play up that point. It should will certainly be reading his speech to see have known that section 20 contained that whether the accusations that he made provision. It should have asked for the against the developers of Kawana Waters repeal of that section, because it is rather are in fact true. condemnatory of local authorities and of Mr. Ahern: They are not true. the original Act. Mr. Austin: Would you say they hadn't Mrs. KYBURZ: The honourable member read the Act when they debated it? assures me that they are not true. I know him to be a man of integrity and, if he says that, it would be correct. Mrs. KYBURZ: I do not know whai to say in answer to that interjection. That is a The next provision of the Bill to which I matter for the Opposition spokesman on the wish to speak is a very important one. I matter. believe that it has been included in the Bill as a result of the representations of thinking The Act refers to the position of a land­ people on this side of the Chamber to the owner in an area where the local authority Minister and his consideration of them. It is has allowed canal developments to take delightful to be able to say that, and I place. The Minister said that where two congratulate the Minister for it. He is repeal­ parcels of land make up an area that shows ing section 20 of the Act, which deals with the best potential for development as one the subdivision of land where a town plan­ canal system, it will remain a matter for the ning scheme provides that the land shall be respective owners to agree upon detailed subdivided by means of a canal or a system proposals for development. Failing agree­ of canals. The fact that a land-owner who ment, one or other of the owners may have decided not to sell his land for subdivision to be content, at least in the short term, to as a canal could have that land resumed put his property to other use. I should like by a local authority is anathema-total to know why those words "at least in the anathema-to me. short term" were included in the Minister's speech. The Minister said that that section was inserted in the Act in 1959. I have no idea Mr. .Hodges: It may be sold to another why it was inserted. There must have been person later. pressure from the Gold Coast-where else? Fortunately, it has never operated. In fact, Mrs. KYBURZ: I thank the Minister for there has been no town planning scheme in that instant explanation. I hope that that force in any local authority specifying that is the case, because I believe that every land is to be subject to canal development. person who owns a piece of land is entitled I would like to know how local authorities to sit on the land as it is, to develop it as can provide in their town planning schemes a canal, to sell it to somebody else, or that canal developments will take place. I to do whatever he wishes with it, unless realise that local authorities are not allowed it is contrary to the public good. Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4295

I see section 20 as being a totally repres­ Act in 1959. We have not the same advisers sive section of the legislation and I cannot that the honourable member has, and we see that it would be in the best interests have not the same opportunities as she has of the small landholders on the north or to be on a committee. She admitted to south coasts. As the Minister mentioned, it having a copy of the details of the Bill. That was a drastic means of resolution for the is one of the disadvantages that we have. canal areas, and, indeed, we are not respect­ ing the rights of the small property owners. As I said, the whole concept of canal devel­ opment has been under challenge for .a lengthy I shall be very interested to read the period. A number of the Minister's depart­ actual wording of the clauses when the Bill mental engineers have been deeply concerned is printed, and I reserve my right to move about the effect of canal waters on 'the main any amendment that I believe is necessary. streams. They are concerned about the density and velocity of water through restricted Mr. WARBURTON (Sandgate) (5.52 p.m.): The Opposition is always very con­ areas and the effect that it may have on bridges and other structures. They are also cerned when a Minister introduces a Bill concerned about the possibility of erosion that hands over certain powers to local as the result of a large volume of water rush­ government. In my period in this Chamber, on numerous occasions powers of an onerous ing downs

I might add that it is significant to see Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (7.26 p.m.): this proposal because it was the Brisbane During his contribution to the debate, the City Council that recently, in the modified honourable member for South Brisbane raised town plan, introduced something in the some questions in relation to a development interests of the public of Brisbane to in my electorate. He made some errors, ensure that if certain non-conforming uses and I rise to correct those errors. Frankly, -for example, tanneries and perhaps garages I am becoming sick of hearing Opposition operating in residential areas-did not comply members almost daily criticising private with the reasonable requirements of the enterprise wherever it exists. Anybody who Brisbane City Council, they could be closed has the courage to undertake a development down in a seven-year period. The State in this State is described as a crook or, Government chose not to agree to that as the honourable member said today, "This provision. Perhaps the provision that I have matter started to raise its ugly head." I just referred to in the Bill is indicative of am getting sick and tired of hearing com­ the Government's general attitude to this panies impugned in this way, particularly matter. when through my own personal experience I know that they are doing their level best The Bill also gives local government the to work in the public interest and to honour power to introduce the concept of make the the public undertakings they have given. user pay. The councils or local authorities The company that was impugned today by will have a very onerous job in determining the honourable member for South Brisbane the extent of the additional amounts payable. has, in my experience-and it has been a I refer now to the provision as outlined by close one-done a very good job so far as the Minister whereby, to recoup main­ its undertakings to the various public auth­ tenance costs, the local authorities are orities with which it has come into contact empowered to charge additional rates. I are concerned. I refer to Kawana Estates. understand that those amounts are to be put into a special fund to be used within The honourable member's statements to a reasonable period. The concept sounds the Committee today were very poorly O.K. researched and touched on the facts only Mr. Hodges: They can be accumulated now here and there. These facts were probably from year to year. provided by a group of very sincere people in the area who have been concerned about Mr. WARBURTON: That is the amend­ what has happened and have been discussing ment? matters with me. I suggest these facts were Mr. Hodges: Yes. supplied by Mr. Bruce Laming, who lives on this development, and is genuinely concerned, Mr. WARBURTON: I raise the point as are other residents, about the destruction that we are referring to canal developments of mangroves and so on. As I said, I am or canal subdivisions and not all dwellers quite happy to talk to these people, as in a canal estate have a canal frontage, and I have in the past. The honourable mem­ not all allotments with canal frontages are ber for South Brisbane quoted from some the same aesthetically or have an anchorage, letters I have written to these people, but so it will be a very difficult job for local I object most strongly to the fact that he authorities to determine the extent of the has either misquoted them or quoted them additional charge that may be made. out of context. Mr. Hodges: It is not a very costly job. In order to justify what I am saying, I need to take honourable members back a Mr. WARBURTON: That is good, for the little in history to the year 1961 when an sake of those people who have already agreement was entered into between a chosen to be part of a canal development group of development companies, the Lands­ site and for the local authorities that have borough Shire Council and the Crown to the responsibility of imposing this addtional undertake certain developments in this area charge. I hope they will see it that way. in return for the construction of the coast They are the points about which I was con­ road. At the time this was hailed as a very cerned on what I was able to glean from important development to link the towns the Minister's introductory remarks, and I, that became collectively known as the Sun­ with other Opposition members, will be shine Coast. Without this development it happy to make further comments when the would have taken many, many years to Bill is available. build this road. So the road was built and 4298 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

at the time it was publicly acclaimed as the In the interim period, negotiations have right and proper thing to do. I have stated, been going on between the three parties to as the honourable member for South Bris­ the dispute in an endeavour to get a reason­ bane said, that with hindsight I believe able overall study of the area, which will we should not try to bind our successors too help to establish flood studies and studies far into the future, and I think that is of canal developments. reasonable. Back in 1961 very long-term arrangements were made by the Government This afternoon the honourable member in return for an undertaking to construct for South Brisbane sought to suggest that •that road and the associated bridges. cost escalation has taken the figure from £8,000 to $500,000. That is a totally stupid There were some terms of the agreement thing to say. In fact, at the time, £8,000 that, because of the detailed technology avail­ would have done very little and would have able now, have to be thought about again. provided very little information. I am not One of those concerned the lowering of the even certain that that is an accurate figure. sand dunes. Part of the agreement was that In fact, I doubt it. But a very considerable the developer would be allowed to develop amount of money has been spent. It has the frontal sand dunes in order to develop produced, right now, a model, which is under the swamp area behind them. It was clearly construction. I would like the honourable understood that that had to be changed, and member who made these statements to it was changed. come up to the area and see it before he launches into a great denigration of the At the time, there was a careful study of company that has, in fact, co-operated with what could be done about it. What actually the local authority and the Crown in provid­ happened was that there were negotiations ing a worthwhile subdivision in the area, between the developer, the Crown and the which is valued by the local community. shire council to try to bring the approved development back behind the sand dunes. It is my hope that this very large study, To do that, there had to be an agreement for which is now being brought to fruition, some sort of compensation. That was not will provide the necessary information that unreasonable, and it was something that I we need to be able to go ahead, with the supported at the time. The land that was co-operation of the developer, and make exchanged was Battery Hill at Caloundra. amendments to the contract that was entered The developer was given that land to develop into in 1961. It is a moot point in law in return for his agreeing to come back off whether that developer could go on today the frontal sand dunes. and completely carry out the subdivision that was approved back in 1961. He prob­ At that time, an in-principle endorsement ably could. In fact, he has co-operated of a subdivision plan was given. There was with the authorities in improving the sub­ a dispute, which resulted in the matter going division plan as he has gone along, and I before the Supreme Court of Queensland in, think that he is to be thanked and con­ I think, 1962. I have not had time to check gratulated for what he has tried to do. The out all of my facts, because the honourable plan has been improved. member gave me no notice that he intended It is quite true that the R.L. levels, which to raise this matter, but the outcome of the were provided for in the original lease negotiations was that an amount of money agreement, have been raised. The standards was provided-and this was the major point have been very substantially increased. of the honourable member's speech this Whereas in the original agreement he did not afternoon-for a model test in the area, a have to provide a certain amount of bitumen hydraulic study to look at the flood level, surfacing of the road, kerbing and channelling and so on. From memory, it was the and so on, he has been encouraged to do princely sum of £8,000. That was contributed that, and he is doing it. I could go on to by the taxpayer, the Landsborough Shire tell honorable members of the contribution Council and the developer. When the matter that this developer has made that he prob­ was considered at that time, it was seen ably did not have to make in terms of the to be a worthless exercise to undertake. 1961 agreement. Our technical officers said-and this was not unreasonable-"That sort of money is going The honourable member for South Bris­ to provide the type of study which is not bane quoted from a letter and said that I going to give us valuable illformation with said that Ministers were in some way regard to the whole development at all." unsympathetic to my representations. I shall Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979) Amendment Bill 4299 have to turn up that letter; but, frankly, much more research on questions such as I believe that he has quoted it grossly out of this in future, instead of just wheelbarrowing context, because I have had a great deal of in here somthing that has been said to them co-operation from the Ministers whose by an objecting party, albeit a conscientious responsibility this very difficult problem has one, without doing any research. The been, and also from the departmental honourable member for South Brisbane could officers. The development is right in the not have done any research on this question. middle of my electorate; I know a lot about If he had, he would have discovered some it. I have had to \·valk over much of it with of this information. It has been known to departmental officers, and Ministers have me, as I have been looking at this question looked at it with departmental officers and ever since I came here in 1968. their plans. Less than a month ago I had Mr. Mackenroth interjected. a conference of an hour and a half with the chairman of the Land Administration Mr. AHERN: The honourable member Commission and one of his departmental for Chatsworth said, "They all stink." I officers to refresh my memory of all these guess he is referring to all companies. matters and to check out some of the details about which the honourable member has Mr. Mackenroth: I did not say, "They spoken in this Chamber tonight. all stink." As to the particular one that the honour­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. able member cites in relation to the Row): Order! The honourable member for esplanade around portion 457-I am happy Chatsworth is not in his correct seat. to say that the Minister's officers have been able to demonstrate to me quite clearly Mr. MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of that the area that he has described is within order. I did not say that all companies stink. the lease. They have also been able to show I ask the honourable member to withdraw me that the esplanade to which the objec­ that comment. tors have been referring, and to which the honourable member for South Brisbane made The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I ask some reference, is on the sea side, and the the honourable member for Landsborough lease is delineated by a survey line within to withdraw that comment. the line on the river side to which the Mr. AHERN: I accept the explanation. honourable member referred. So the developers have been working right inside The honourable member's statements bore their lease at that point. The honourable no relationship to the Minister's proposals member may not have been given all tha:t in the legislation. I suppose that is all right, correspondence, but I provided that informa­ too. tion in detail in writing to the objectors after I had the conference with the chairman of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! the Land Administration Commission. There is too much audible conversation in the Chamber. As I said earlier, over the years the conduct of this company in its dealings with Mr. AHERN: This canal development was the Landsborough Shire Council and the approved in 1961. Right or wrong, wise or Crown has been exemplary. It has done all unwise, it was approved. A genuine effort that it could, I think, to increase the has been made through the years to improve standards of its developments and to respond and upgrade it, and tha,t effort has met with to reasonable suggestions as they have been considerable success. The Kawana develop­ made-and they have been many. It pro­ ment is a very important one in my elec­ bably does not have to listen to all that torate and the company is doing a very good argument, because it had a contract with job. the Crown back in 1961. Therefore, it In the future, however, the Government angers me to hear the company impugned. must look more closely at the questions of Apparently, any company that is men­ canal development. I believe it is already tioned in this Chamber or is involved in doing that. Complex questions in relation some dealings with the Government comes to flooding, the destruction of mangroves in for denigration by the Opposition, and I and the contribution that mangroves make suggest that the credibility of honourable generally to the fishing indus.try are ·involved. members opposite is very much lacking when The Government must pay greater a:ttention they do that sort of thing. They need to do to them. Gone are the days of the heady 4300 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

past when anyone who owned a piece of Mr. Beausang wrote a letter to the editor, wate11front land assumed that that gave him dated 28 June 1978, and, under the heading some unfettered right to proceed with oanal "Council does not control Kawana", it development. That is not on any more. states- The Government has to be more careful "Sir, After reading the letter published about the types of projects that it approves in your oolumns under the nom-de-plume in the future. 'Johnny Come Lately' the impression I do not shrink .from the undertaking that could quite easily be gained that the I gave in the letter quoted by the honourable Landsborough Shire Council is blame­ member for South Brisbane. .I said that worthy for every and any act of develop­ Governments should not bind their suc­ ment in the Kawana Waters area. cessors too far into the future. Government "While I have no intention of com­ approval should extend for a reasonable menting on the numerous questions posed length of time, but it certainly should not by your anonymous correspondent, I feel cover the next 20 years. That is too long .a few general facts should he stated so in relation to these developments. An ovemll that the position is made clear to your proposal could be studied and could be readers." approved in stages so that the public's reaction could be judged fmm time to time The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. and advances in technology allld knowledge RDw): Order! Once again I remind honou:r­ of the environment could be studied in able members that the audio system in •the relation to developments. Chamber is very sensitive and picks up almost every conversation. It is impossible That type of thing was not done in 1961. for me and the Minis.ter to hear the member It ·is easy with hindsight to say that perhaps on his feet. I ask honourable members to it should have been done. It certainly should refrain from having audible conversations or, be done in the future. alternatively, to push the microphones for­ ward. H .they do not do so, the debate will I rose ro defend •that developer and that continue to be interrupted. development. The developer has served the pubLic interest and has not deserved the Mr. BURNS: Mr. Beausang's letter goes impugning to which it was subjected tonight. on to say- The honourable member for South Brisbane "First, Kawana Estates Pty. Ltd. holds did not carry out sufficient research. I '\Wll a development lease fmm the Queensland be more than happy to show the development State Government, which lease extends for to him personally. I am sure that, if he a period of 30 years from July 1, 1960. sees it, he will eat his •words. "It is h Brisbane had misquoted his letter. I will Shke Council, Mr. Beausang. e table the letter and honourable members will Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4301 be able to determine whether it is misquoted. Mr. BURNS: The honourable member The honourable member's letter clearly for Landsborough talked about Battery Hill reads-- and why we had to change the original "I have now had an opportunity to lease. The Government changed the original doublecheck the facts in relation to the lease because it found that it had acted in a Kawana development to which you have way that was not in the interest of the made reference to me. This overall pro­ people. posal was approved in principle in 1961, unfortunately, and I regret that there is The development lease originally approved very little that the Government can do in the reduction of the height of the frontal sand relation to stopping it. dunes. That is referred to in section 9 of the second schedule. But after the true "I am afraid 'injurious affection' would value of the retention of these dunes became have to be paid and each time I have widely known and accepted, the area of discussed this with Ministers I am afraid ,the development lease was reduced to take I have not had a sympathetic hearing. I into account the frontal dunes area that believe there is a very serious lesson to was excised from the lease by the Crown be learnt here, that being that Govern­ of land in the Battery Hill area-an area ment should not bind their successors too in exchange for a special lease over an area far in the future, particularly where envir­ that was referred to by the honourable mem­ onmental matters are concerned. ber for Landsborough. "However, I thank you for your interest, The honourable member for South Bris­ and I regret that there's no further action bane referred to the value of the mangroves. that I can take." The problems are inherent in an agreement I make the point very clearly here, firstly, that was brought about by the court atter that the council said it could not do any­ people in the area became concerned in thing and, secondly, that the member repre­ 1962. If we could excise land from a senting the district said he could not do lease years ago, with all the information anything. He said, "I have not had a sym­ we have, why can we not take action in pathetic hearing from the Ministers con­ these circumstances? The Minister is saying cerned". to people on the North Coast, "In future your council will be responsible for cleaning Mr. Ahem: Injurious affection. up and maintaining the canals in your area." But Councillor Beausang and many other Mr. BURNS: The honourable member people in the area have said that they have said, "Each time I have discussed this with no say and no responsibility; that they Ministers I am afraid I have not had a cannot control the developer and he can go sympathetic hearing." ahead under the terms of the lease. Mr. Ahem: Purely in relation to injur­ I read the lease and I must say that I ious affection. have no argument with the developer; he has Mr. BURNS: The member did not get a had a field day. The Government ought to sympathetic hearing. get a good kick in the backside for ever Mr. Ahern: On injurious affection, no. drawing up the lease in such vague terms. Mr. Ahern: That was in 1961. Mr. BURNS: I will not argue the point on injurious affection. The honourable mem­ Mr. BURNS: In 1961 there must have ber is only playing with words. He said that been lawyers and people in Government the Ministers did not co-operate with him. departments who could draw up an effective I will leave that point with the people. Any lease. The Government was beating its breast of the honourable member's electors who in those days in support of the private­ read his letter would believe that that was enterprise operators, claiming that the busi­ the case. ness expertise it was bringing to this Assem­ In this situation we are talking about a bly would do wonders for the people of lease over an area of canal development. Queensland. The honourable member is now The other day we were varying the terms saying that the Government did not do so of a lease which was gazetted in January or well at all, that the leases that were being February this year, that is, Development sold to developers, supposedly for the people's Lease No. 3. We were varying the terms to benefit, were not so good. The honourable suit the repayment conditions of the devel­ member says it himself in his letter to the oper. If we can do that by Order in people in his area. He is saying it, too, in Council to suit the developer's requirements, his letters to the newspapers in his area. He why can't we do something about this par­ said it very clearly on 21 June 1978, six ticular matter to cope with the problems months ago. He said it again tonight. of people who are worried about their land Mr. Ahern: Clem Jones did the survey. being flooded and the environment destroyed as a result of developments on the river? Mr. BURNS: What has that to do with Mr. Ahern: Injurious affection; that's 1t? If the honourable member reads the why. lease documents, he will find little that will 4302 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

be helpful to the people. I suggest that he bought land in 1975, 15 years later. I read the judgment brought down on 21 obtained a copy of .the map handed out by August 1962. Clause 6 reads- the developer. It is like a map of Disney­ "The Crown agrees to contribute one­ land. The people were not told that the third of the cost to £8,000 and the Com­ developer would move in a few years later pany and the Council each agree to con­ and destroy a few of the islands, put a bund tr1bute one-third of the total cost of Jn the river and maybe threaten their £8,000 ..."- development and their properties. Those things should be stated very clearly in future the poor old council ratepayer is again up for land sales in areas where canals are developed. some money with, as Mr. Beausang says, no They should be very clearly marked on their control- contracts so that people know what to " ... for the investigation and construction expect. of the model of the Mooloolah River and its flood plain from Meridan Plains to The Act should be changed so that people the bar at Point Cartwright . . . The who buy canal blocks know that in future Company will initiate the preparation of the council will be able to impose a levy the model as soon as the cost thereof is and continue it for cleansing the canals. It !in hand." will be a special levy or rate, as the Minister said. It should be made known so .that the My newspaper cuttings show that on 17 people know they are not buying a pig in May 1978-six years later-Mr. Burns from a poke. that company (he is no relative of mine), speaking on behalf of Kawana Estates In my experience in the short time that Pty. Ltd. said that the company's consulting I have been the shadow Minister on land engineers and others were to call tenders for matters I have found that land salesmen in a new model to cost $360,000. I do not most cases go fiat out •to sell land. They are accept Mr. Ahern's earlier explanation about not really concerned about the provision of the £8,000. The council, the Government and services or the fine points in some of the the developers sitting in the court agreed contracts. Our argument is that it comes back that a £16,000 model would be built. to what was put very clearly by .the honour­ able member for South Brisbane. The Part of clause 2 of the terms of settlement Canals Act Amendment Bill is befme Par­ refers to the minimum levels for the develop­ liament. It says to the local government ment area and clearly relates them to the people, "You are going to be responsible." hydraulic scale model. It makes provision It is the old story of taxation without for the model to be used in the tests for representation. In this case, I suppose it is the development of the area to ascertain costs without control. whether the people will be flooded or not. That model was accepted by the court, the Mr. Hodges: They have always had -the council and the State to do a certain job. responsibility. For those six years the development Mr. BURNS: They have always had -the has gone ahead in the area without the responsibility, but the point is that they have model. Now, after a lot of action by the had no control, if I can believe Councillor people in the district which forced the mem­ Beausang, and I suppose ·that we have to ber in the area to answer the letter, and believe him, seeing that he put it in the forced councillors in the area to start answer­ paper and as his comments were endorsed ing their letters, the developer decides that by the local member at the time, the honour­ he will build a model and do tests. able member for Landsborough. He has said quite clearly >that the Government cannot The local people have been given a overcome the problems that exist, that his tremendous run-around in that time. We are Council, too, has no say. There is an obvious talking about the Canals Act and the pro­ weakness that this Government should tection it affords the people. They are con­ correct. That is a position of weakness in cerned. They are not arguing with the which ·we cannot leave ourselves. I agree developer; they are arguing that the Govern­ with what •the honourab1e member for ment, in laying down these leases and Acts, Landsborough said about 30-year leases in should be making provision so that action vague terms. The Government has val'ied can be taken to protect the people if their ·them on a couple of occasions to suit the properties are threatened by problems that developers, but very rarely changed them to could be experienced with flood plains, the suit the local land-owners. I believe that in bund across the river, and the removal of an future, when the Government draws up these island that everyone thought would stay development leases and draws up Acts such there. So the facts are there and the people as this, it should set out to protect the are concerned. If they said they were not ordinary landholder and ratepayer rather concerned, they were not being truthful. than the developers. Mr. Ahern: Those maps have been in the Whereupon the honourable member laid developer's office for years. on the table the letter referred to. Mr. BURNS: That is the sort of stupid Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (7.56 p.m.): I argument that comes from people like the rise ·to support the Minister in the introduc­ honourable member. The development plans tion of this legislation. It has been quite a and maps were produced in 1960 and people long time since the original Canals Acts were Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4303

introduced. It is obvious that over .the years Mr. Hodges: It is so infinitesimal that I we have learnt a lot through experience. would not worry about it. There have been a lot of mistakes in the Mr. SIMPSON: I like options, and I building of canals, perhaps because we have think that local authorities might like not had the proper legislation to enforce options. I note from the Minister's intro­ controls. One area ,that has caused concern ductory remarks that he is giving local has been access channels to canals. I under­ authorities options and more flexibility stood the Minister to say .that ·this Bill will regarding the funds that are collected for cover that area of concern. maintenance purposes. I think at the The question whether .the Department of moment that, theoretically, local authorities Harbours and Marine or local authorities can rate the benefited area only for the should have jurisdiction over freshwater and particular work that has to be carried out. tidal streams has been raised. I hope that That is the end of it. They cannot keep ·that question can be clarified, although I am any money in reserve for the future. They sure that, with co-operation between local can also transfer any profit into a general authorities and the department, a satisfactory fund. I think that this matter would need solution can be achieved. We cannot just to be watched carefully because it could draw an arbitrary line and say that one part be abused. Local authorities could start of a stream is freshwater and another .is tidal. to milk the areas in which there was canal As I understand it, at present we have no development. It would be up to the local freshwater lake developments with access to ratepayers to keep an eye on the local ·the sea, and no doubt we will have to learn authority to see that it was doing the right how to handle such developments. But I thing by them. do not think we can do this by theorising. I I am pleased to see that section 20 of the ·think we wi11 have to allow some .to go ahead Act is being repealed. It has never been on an experimental basis and then find out operated on, and I am pleased that that is the pitfalls while trying to anticipate the the case. The section allows a local author­ problems. ity to take freehold land from somebody in order to connect up a canal development. In The Gold Coast has given us most of our fact, the local authority should have made experiences Wlith canal developments, and it that a requirement of development rather appears that the Gold Coast City Council than take the land. is very desirous of having control of main­ Mr. Hodges: You put up a good case on this. tenance of the canals in its area. As I under­ stand it, the people living in the benefited Mr. SIMPSON: I thank the Minister. He area along the canals were levied to provide is now letting everyone into the secret that for canal maintenance, but in future, with we discussed this matter in the joint party this Bill, local authorities will have the room. Contrary to what many people think, option to fund maintenance from general in the joint party room the back-bencher rating or from a benefited area. The Depart­ gets an opportunity to speak and to bring ment of Harbours and Marine claim that before the Minister changes to legislation. if canals are designed properly it should be There certainly is no dictatorship. possible to keep maintenance costs to a The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. minimum, particularly if the revelments are Row): Order! I have asked honourable mem­ properly constructed and the developers stick bers repeatedly to maintain reasonable to the recommendations of the department. silence in the Chamber. The member for I will get to that in a moment, but if Chatsworth and the member for Salisbury these canals are properly constructed, there are carrying on a conversation that is louder will be very little maintenance, so it is than the speech of the member on his feet. hoped that this will not become a contentious I ask them to desist. issue. If local authorities have not had any Mr. Bums: The member for Chatsworth experience in this area, it could concern is not here. them greatly. When maintenance has been required, a contract has been let for dredging The TEMPORARY CHAIIlMAN: Well, and so on, which has been carried out the member for Nudgee. The Chamber will according to specifications laid down by the come to order. department, with the co-operation of the Mr. SIMPSON: I thank the Minister for local authorities. This may have been done highlighting the fact that back-benchers do at the request of the land-owners. get an opportunity in the joint party room to Mr. Hodges: Our engineers will also advise express their concern about legislation, and them. in this case the Minister took notice of what was said. This provision gives local author­ Mr. SIMPSON: Yes. Will they still have ities the right to take freehold land to that assistance? connect up canals if in fact they are land­ locked because other land-owners are not Mr. Hodges: Yes. prepared to allow canals to pass through Mr. SIMPSON: I think that is important. their land to a canal development. Vve could also insert an opllion that would The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! allow the local authorities to take it over or The Chamber will come to order. leave it to the Department of Harbours and Marine. Mr. SIMPSON: I thank you, Mr. Row. 4304 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! northerly position, where it was many years I warn the member for Cairns under Stand­ ago, and providing a high primary dune to ing Order 123A. protect the canal development inside, but Mr. Jones: What for? also by prov,iding a magnificent beach, a kilometre and a half lcmg, at Noosa Heads The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: For where the beach has been lost about 14 making excessive noise in the Chamber. or 15 years ago. Mr. SThiPSON: Canals in rivers such as What upsets me, Mr. Row, is that when the Noosa River on the Sunshine Coast, seas subsequently ate into some of that mag­ which is a very delicate stream, could have nificent beach, repor,ts appeared in the media a very detrimental effect on the river system. in southern States saying, "The beach at As the flow of a river in and out is altered Noosa has been swept away. It is two yards by building greater capacity into the river wide, and now you are on the rocks", and with canals, the bar could be altered and rubbish of that sort. People should go there there could also be lowering of the level of and see for themselves. It :is a magnificent the river. If that happened in the Noosa stretch of beach, and it is stHl all sand. I River, it could become unnavigable. The must admit :that some of the sand has ,been water flow must pass through wide lakes, eroded from the easterly end near the life­ which are shallow. The Minister has been saving club, but it has built up substantially very helpful in this regard in having some of nearer to the wall that keeps the mouth of these areas dredged out so that people can the river tmined to its northerly posi,tion. As still travel up the Noosa River. But aspects I said, there is a magnificent beach at Noosa of canal development have some great Heads, and the canal development has also associated problems. One canal development been protected. The response from tourists within a river might not have any great has been tremendous, yet adverse reports effect, but a precedent is set. Other still appear 1n the southern Press because developers could claim that they should be someone who wishes to see his name in print allowed to develop their land as a canal says that the 'beach has been swept away. development. So it progresses until there That is very disappointing. is a detrimental effect on the Noosa River and the lake system on the river. Land-owners in canal developments need If the developer is knocked back, he goes to be protected, and the highest possible to the Local Government Court and cites a standard must be maintained in areas in case that has already been decided. That which canal development may be thought was done in the case of Marina Gardens in advisable. Adequate records of flood heights the Maroochy Shire, which cost the council must be kept to ensure that people are not about $20,000. Despite the fact that the allowed to build on land below flood level. judge stated that it was going to have a It is ridiculous to create a situation in slightly detrimentaJ effect on the river and which people could be flooded and in need on flooding in the river, he was not prepared of help from charity. It is wrong to create to refuse the application. When roads are in a flood-plain situation canal development in need of repair, ratepayers think what such as Marina Gardens, where, as was wuld have been done in their area with the suggested in the court case, the water in $20,000 that the council had to pay, and the river would rise higher, thereby inundat~ they are not happy about the council's pur­ ing agricultural land for lengthy periods. suing costly count cases. Productivity would be lost and the canal estate itself put at risk. Approval should not I believe that the Government must con­ be given to any development of a flood plain sider the problem. Where the Government that raises the height of flood waters. Local gives approval for canal development, it authorities should ensure that their decisions should accept responsibility for that decision are wise ones and that such proposed doubt­ and defend it instead of leaving it to councils ful developments are refused. to take cases to court. If that were done, fewer developers would attempt to manipulate The whole question whether a river can the local authority and force through carry water from canal developments needs developments that local residents are not to be properly evaluated before such devel­ happy about in ,the future design and plan­ opments are allowed. The matter of fresh­ ning of their area and that the local auth­ water-lake developments should be investi­ ority is very much against. gated. Pehaps one or two could be permitted The Noosa canal development was not on a trial basis so that we could learn what thought out properly. The fact that the the pitfalls are. There are sure to be some, mouth of the Noosa River was exposed to such as pollution of the waterways. The storms was not recognised, and the area was land-owners must be given adequate pro­ eroded badly by a storm several years ago. tection. The rock revelments on the northern side Canal developers must be required to put of the development in the Noosa River were up substantial bonds to cover their develop­ eroded and quite a number of blocks of ments. If they do not do that and they go land in the canal developments were put at broke, we are left with a great hole in the I'isk. The Governmen,t saw fi,t to protect ground and we have the worst of both worlds. that development not only by relocating the I refer to the Marina Gardens development mouth of the Noosa River in a more that was proposed for the area near the Bli Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill 4305

Bli bridge on the Mamochy River. The the Noosa development has been described as Department of Harbours and Marine said successful, many other developments in the that the soil was not suitable for the con­ coastal areas will cause problems. struction of canals. The result was that the design proved to be very costly, which made Mr. Hodges: They must be built to pre­ the whole development a doubtful economic determined specifications. proposition. The local authority rightly Mr. HANSEN: That is so, but I do not asked for a large bond. If it had not done so, know that the local authorities have the the ratepayers in the shire would have been necessary experience. called upon to fix the development up. Mr. Hodges: The local authorities do not Matters such as that need to be considered build them; the developers do. when the construction of canals is mooted. People should be given the choice of living Mr. HANSEN: The local authorities must along the waterways or on the many thou­ supervise them. They need their own people sands of beautiful sites on the Sunshine or people from Government departments with Coast. They could then either moor their the necessary expertise. The developers need boats in the marinas or take their boats to supervision. That is the general theme of the the water from their blocks. If they were debate. able to do that, they would not create problems in the rivers and fish habitats. Mr. Hodges interjected. I await the printing of the Bill and wel­ Mr. HANSEN: That could alter in various come the amendments to the Act. places. We are not talking about canals that are waterways as such. They could be Mr. HANSEN (Maryborough) (8.14 p.m.): better described as projects to provide water­ I take it that the Bill will place more front allotments for the benefit of the responsibility on local government and that developer. People believe that water fron­ it will give local government full control tages add to the beauty of the allotment. over the construction of canals. From my experience of local government in recent Mr. Scott: Would you say it was a status years, I know that it is being saddled with symbol? more and more responsibility. Knowing some of the problems-and the honourable Mr. HANSEN: Having a waterfront allot­ member for Cooroora detailed more of them ment could be a status symbol. I know that to us-I question seriously the ability of local it costs more to buy a block with a water authorities to handle these developments. A frontage. great deal of experience is needed. There must be uniformity in construction based on In this legislation we are not dealing with experience since canals were first built. canals that are used as waterways other than by an excessive number of owners of Canals must be for the common good. smallcraft who want to use sheltered waters They have played an important part in away from the main stream or the sea. The Europe's transport systems. But there is a Bill will provide for local authority rating fine line between successful canal develop­ for the maintenance and clearing of these ment and the inundation of land by flooding canals and for dredging, if that is necessary. or the lowering of the level of water in Grass and weed problems occur in enclosed existing lakes and waterways. The people waters. I cite the large amount of money of the Netherlands have had the experience. that was spent by the caretakers of Albert They live below sea level but after much Park in Melbourne. They had a great prob­ experience they were able to handle the lem with the spread of duckweed. They situation. tried all sorts of craft and all sorts of poisons to control it. Eventually they did, There are many problems associated with but it was at a fairly high cost. the construction of canals. In some instances construction of canals has affected neighbour­ The land-owners in this area will be rated ing streams and the water in tidal lakes. In by local authorities. This is where the other instances, perhaps because of the crunch will come in. They wilJ be classed as narrow mouth of a stream, the water levels being in a benefited area. I should like have dropped substantially and the man­ to pose one question to the Minister. If grove and other areas that provide a habitat the canal is to be considered a waterway for fish and crustaceans have been seriously the same as a road is a roadway, should affected. On occasions the water has become the people using the canal be charged any so shallow and therefore hotter that oysters more than people with a road running have been wiped out. Where does the past their property are charged for road responsibility lie? maintenance? As the cost of sealing a road is high, it is possible that the maintenance of Personally I do not believe that local the road could be far more costly than authorities have personnel with the expertise maintaining a waterway. I question whether to control canals. I would rather see the the people in this area will be considered to responsibility lie with the Minister's depart­ be in a benefited area and wilJ be charged ment. Officers in the department have by the local authority at a special rate as reservations about canal development. While is proposed in the Bill. 4306 Canals Act [26 APRIL 1979] Amendment Bill

Mr. Warburton: Do you think it is fair I now want to mention a problem that to say that the Valuer-General might possibly has existed for some years, although value those properties higher and, therefore, the details of it have only recently become those people would be paying twice? fully known. I refer to a newspaper article headed, "Island 'Dream' to End." states- Mr. HANSEN: If the prices paid for these blocks are any indication, that could well be " A dream to establish a multi-million so. Nevertheless, I raise the matter with dollar canal estate paradise on South the Minister and ask whether another burden Stradbroke Island will wind up in the is being placed on the local authorities which nightmarish surroundings of a Brisbane I do not really believe they are equipped bankruptcy court today. to carry. "And yesterday there were calls for some sort of State Government inquiry to Mr. Hodges: It is not another burden; they help salvage a land development project are doing it now. that, its backers claim, was destroyed by Mr. HANSEN: They are doing it in con­ the 'dead weight' of government inertia, junction with the Department of Harbours red tape, and unbalanced conservation and Marine? issues. Mr. Hodges: In a round-about way, and "The Albert Shire Council, in particular we are straightening this out. has been heavily blamed by people who bought land in the project at a time when Mr. HANSEN: I hope that it is being the council was acting as a trustee." straightened out. Mr. Jack Beausang, who The article states that the council was acting is very well versed in local government, as a trustee, and I believe that if, in future, believes that his council has no authority control of this sort of development was in these matters. handed to the councils, whilst they might Mr. Hodges: That was a totally different not be acting as a trustee, they could be the matter. controlling body and similar situations could arise. At present machinery and draglines Mr. HANSEN: I hope it will be different are rusting away on this Stradbroke Waters in the measure before us. I wish the Estate at Couran Point. Some of this land Minister luck with it, but I still have reserva­ was sold to overseas investors. Because of tions about placing any additional load on a feud between this Government, the Albert local authorities. Shire Council and the people who spent a Mr. KRUGER (Murmmba) (8.24 p.m.): lot of money to develop the land as a long­ I should like to back up the speakers on this term project, the land was never properly side of the Committee. From past experi­ developed. This has developed into a scandal ence and in line with what ·the honourable of the Russell Island type, which is one of member for Maryborough said, I feel that the greatest land scandals ever uncovered. I the Valuer-General would place a high am mentioning this matter tonight so that value on this land, so that the people living the scandal will be fully uncovered in the in canal developments will pay double for future. I am introducing it tonight in order the amenities they enjoy and the type of to ensure that we eventually get the full land they own. Unfortunately, most of facts. The article continues- the canal development in Queensland is "Under the scheme, land purchasers inland; it would not be developed otherwise. contributed towards the development cost Development of this type takes place at of the land and were able to nominate the mouth of a river, in areas that are the date they would like to have the land generally swampy and low. They are fish­ ready for resale or building purposes. breeding habitats. In fact, the land is not "It raised some eyebrows when it was solid enough to build a house on it in first introduced on the Gold Coast but the normal way and it does not drain well. attracted the support of the Albert Shire Usually a dredge is put in to clear the Council and, finally, some 250 local, inter­ waterway and raise the level of the land a state and overseas investors." few feet with the sand and gravel that is This development attracted the attention of won. This raises the area on which houses the Albert Shire Council, but after many are eventually built. In fact, the land is difficulties arose between the Government usually of very poor quality and could not and the Albert Shire Council, the deal was be sold but for the fact that the canals squashed, thereby resulting in another affair have been built. But once the canals have of the Russell Island type. The land is been constmcted, the land immediately partly developed and machinery is rusting becomes quite valuable, although in most away on the site. People lost the few shillings cases it is pretty hard to provide amenities that they had been able to save over a of the type the people who buy dear land long period. The land was advertised over­ generally expect to get. seas. I have it on good authority that people Mr. Hansen: They resemble mugs. were sent pamphlets showing photographs of the Isle of Capri development saying that Mr. KRUGER: Yes, they do. this great development was going to take In most cases I do not believe that local place at Couran Point. Unfortunately, it authorities will be able to handle the situa­ never got off the ground. The situation arose tion correctly. as a result of a feud between the council Canals Act Amendment Bill [26 APRIL 1979] Queensland Tourist, &c., Bill 4307

and the Government. We have seen a lot of This gentleman has complained to me about such things in the past, and under this Act this situation. What I am pointing out is that we will see it again, although I sincerely leaving this type of development entirely hope I am wrong. in the hands of shires is not always in the best interests of those people who would in The article continues- fact either develop land or purchase land "It struck its first snag in 1966 when in those particular areas. the Albert Shire Council was advised by The document that I have here is quite the Local Government Department that it lengthy. As I say, I am introducing it into was wrong to accept the position of this debate tonight because this scandal will trustee. be fully uncovered at a later date. It is a "But some canal work was eventually scandal of the worst type. I believe that, begun on South Stradbroke at Couran eventuaily, somebody with a bit of standing Point. -it ought to be the State Government of "Then conservationists began to lobby Queensland-ought to do something about against the project, and others proposed for this matter. I trust that this legislation will nearby Broadwater islands. help, although I am a little doubtful about that at this stage. Of course, we have not "As a result the State Government set seen the Bill. up a committee to investigate Broadwater development, and restraints were placed Problems must arise when this type of on the Stradbroke Waters project. operation is left to councils. There are different situations in different shires, differ­ "The developers claim the restraints ent cities and different areas. As I have should never have been imposed and they said, the problem generaily comes about say there was a series of bewildering mix­ because of the type of land that is developed. ups and apparent misinterpretations of Until such time as we can get some formal Cabinet decisions." procedure for the development of canals, I The Cabinet decision to give that power to believe that problems wiii arise. I just hope the Albert Shire Council apparently caused that the Minister's Biii will overcome some the chaos that occurred. I have some infor­ of the problems that we on this side of the mation here from a gentleman about this Chamber can see. matter. Having dealt with that newspaper Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister article he said- for Maritime Services and Tourism) (8.32 "! find it difficult to understand why the p.m.), in reply: Several points that have been Chairman of Directors of Stradbroke raised by speakers this afternoon and tonight Managers Pty. Ltd. (Mr. David Selth) are outside my jurisdiction, and they are well would attempt to deny the criticism of the outside the ambit of these amendments. One Government and the Albert Shire Council or two of the points that have been raised which appeared in the Friday 23 March require a little research. That research will . . . in 1971 the Albert Shire Council be done. I will give a fuii and factual answer had advised his group that the Council to these points in my second-reading speech. proposed to consider the revocation of its That is ail I wish to say at this stage, other approvals for the development of our than to commend the motion to the Com­ Stradbroke Waters Estate and 'Alberta mittee. City' residential canal subdivision . . . the Albert Shire Council had commissioned Motion (Mr. Hodges) agreed to. Project Planning Associates (International) Resolution reported. Ltd., an associated company of Inter­ capital Investments Ltd.-later taken over FIRST READING by Cambridge Credit Corp. Ltd., and then Biii presented and, on motion of Mr. one of his groups' major land developer Hodges, read a first time. competitors in the Shire-to prepare the Council's lands use policy in respect of our and other lands in the Shire including QUEENSLAND TOURIST AND TRAVEL those of our major competitors." CORPORATION BILL In actual fact, a pretty broad study was SECOND READING made. This chap, who denied those ailega­ tions, was involved in this matter at the time Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister when the Albert Shire became trustee for for Maritime Services and Tourism). (8.34 the land in the area. He continued- p.m.): I move- "(c) ... notwithstanding his group's "That the Bill be now read a second objection, the Albert Shire Council on time!' 9 March 1973 had adopted the Strategic The purpose of this measure is to establish Plan prepared by Project Planning a statutory authority, presided over by a Associates (International) Ltd. which part-time board of directors drawn largely designed the future use of our Council from private enterprise, to upgrade and approved Stradbroke Waters Estate and streamline the Government's interest in Alberta City residential land subdivision as tourism and to competitively promote this 'open space--conservation'." State as a major holiday destination. Under 4308 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

the proposal, on a date to be fixed the put it in his comments during the intro­ Queensland Government Tourist Bureau and ductory debate, "A fresh approach is needed, the Department of Tourism will cease to using the best brains available to us". exist as such, and on that date the statutory Before detailing the major provisions of authority, known as the Queensland Travel the Bill, I would like to take this opportunity and Tourist Corporation, will assume the to reply to a number of comments made by assets, liabilities, obligations, etc., of the honourable members during the introductory bureau and will set guide-lines and bench­ debate. Understandably perhaps, but never­ marks for the promotion and development theless regrettably, I feel that several mem­ of tourism, which a full-time executive staff, bers did not speak to this important measure now with the bureau, will ,translate into but used the occasion simply to air paro­ achievement. chial issues and parish politics. Indeed, I outlined at the introductory stage the parochialism seemed to dominate the debate reasons that make this move not simply -and this during discussion on a move in desirable but necessary-even urgent. If which it is hoped Queensland's tourist indus­ Queensland is to get its fair share of the try will be encouraged to undo the restraints expanding global tourist trade-the fastest­ and limitations of not only the bureaucracy growing, perhaps the richest, industry in the but also parochialism. world today-this State must be able to In no area were parochial attitudes more complete on at least equal terms with other clearly demonstrated than in debate upon States, other nations and other destinations. the composition of the board of the proposed corporation. The honourable member for Presently, because of the bureaucratic Salisbury was not alone, apparently, in her nature of our sales force, the limitations and opinion that in searching for the right per­ restrictions under which Government depart­ sons to represent and assist in guiding the ments must necessarily be forced to operate, future development of Queensland's tourist we in Queensland are not able to compete industry, the Government must pay greater on anything like equal terms with the attention to geographical location than to sophisticated and highly professional tech­ professional expertise, big-business practices niques employed by our competitors in the and experience. fierce battle for the tourist dollar. Theirs Some honourable members preferred quan­ is a freer, more flexible, businesslike struc­ tity to quality, proposing that the board be ture, one able to readily adapt to the chang­ composed of a representative of each part ing demands of a fast-moving, increasingly of the State. Experience has shown that competitive world tourism scene; ours, by large representative boards, whilst being contrast, is not and, I venture to say, never unwieldy, even unmanageable, also tend .to will be whilst tied to the necessary but allow parochial issues to take precedence nevertheless restrictive governmental and over broader issues that would tend to bureaucratic processes-processes that are benefit the State as a whole. Surely what not conducive to quick decision-making or matters is not where a man or woman the encouragement of personal initiative, chooses to live or work but only that he or creativity and drive so necessary for success she has a proven track record and can do in an entrepreneurial field. a satisfactory job. Personally, I cannot for the life of me see that it is relevant I stressed in my introductory remarks-and whether the entire board of the new corpora­ I stress again-that this measure should in tion is drawn from the one town, one suburb no way be seen as a criticism of the staff of or one street. Indeed, it should not matter the Queensland Government Tourist Bureau; whether all the members of the board live rather should it be seen as one that recog­ under one roof, provided, as the honourable nises their worth and their special talents member for Cunningham pharsed it, "They and is designed to ensure that such talents pass the acid test ability to do the job." are given full and proper rein, not only for their personal benefit but also for the benefit If parochialism is to dominate not only of an industry that is destined to become the debate on this Bill but also the selection biggest employer and money-earner in this of persons to run the new corporation, then State. we as a Government might just as well decide here and now to withdraw totally our It is expected that a small, part-time board interest in tourism. Parochialism won't of men--or women-with the qualifications win contracts; it won't help us to outsell necessary to fully exploit the undoubted our competitors; it won't fill aircraft, the potential of Queensland's tourist industry buses, the trains and the tourist houses. will give the executive staff the proper leadership and incentive to dedicate them­ During the introductory stage, several selves to the selling of Queensland as a honourable members expressed concern destination on terms equal to or better than regarding the fate of public servants pres­ those of our competitors. ently employed by the Queensland Govern­ ment Tourist Bureau. Now that the Bill is Whilst I have in the past made it clear before them, they will see that their fears that I personally believe more finance should for these public servants were unfounded; be made avai~able for tourist promotion, they are handsomely protected. Indeed, as extra money wrll not solve all problems. As the honourable member for Southport pointed the honourable member for Albert so aptly out, the result of this Bill will mean that Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4309

"the staff of the Queensland Government establish the salaries and other conditions Tourist Bureau will get the best of both of employment subject to any applicable worlds. For two years they will have a industrial awards. rare opportunity to try out a new career in a private-enterprise atmosphere without * Public servants working in the Depart­ detriment to their Public Service rights and ment of Tourism will be transferred to privileges." the corporation on secondment for a period of two years, during which they will have The honourable member for Townsville the opportunity to make an election if South sees the establishment of a corpora­ they wish to remain in the Public Service, tion as an excuse "to give jobs to the otherwise they will become employees of boys", whilst several other honourable mem­ the corporation on the expiration of the bers of the Opposition saw the proposition as two-year period. an ideal way for board members to feather their own nests, so to speak. It will be * The rights of public servants involved seen that the provisions of the Bill are in the rearrangement in respect of leave such that there will be no personal gain and superannuation will be fully protected. for anyone elected to the board of the They will also have the right of appeal proposed corporation. against appointments in the Public Ser­ vice as though they had remained in the I do not wish to spend much more time Department of Harbours and Marine (or replying to the comments made at the Premier's Department, as the case may introductory stage. But before moving on to he) until such time as their period of outline the main provisions of the Bill to be considered tonight by the House, I wish secondment finishes. to make special mention of what I con­ * Any increase in commission earnings by sidered to be thoughtful, informative and far­ the corporation in respect of its tourist and sighted comments contributed by the hon­ travel agency business beyond general ourable members for Surfers Paradise, ,inflationary trends will go towards increas­ Landsborough, Cunningham, Albert, Car­ ing the promotion work undertaken by the narvon, Cooroora, Merthyr, Townsville corporation in respect of tourism and West and Townsville. travel within the State. Honourable members will note that the * The corporation will, subject to Governor main provisions of this Bill are: in Council approval, have power to borrow * On the appointed day, the new corporation and to lend for the purpose of assisting takes over the responsibility of the pro­ tourist and travel development, and to motion of tourism and travel within the recommend the granting of Government State and the use of premises and other guarantees in respect of borrowings by assets presently used by the Department private developers for development pur­ of Tourism. poses. * The corporation ,is to consist of at least * The corporation will be subject to Govern­ seven persons, one of whom is to be the ment policy directives and will be required permanent head of the department through to report annually to the Minister and which the Act is administered, and six Parliament. others appointed by the Governor in Council. I am certain that this measure will repre­ sent a very significant step forward in the To answer the query raised by the honour­ expansion of the tourist and travel industry able member for Merthyr-it should be within the State and I look forward to noted that, if at anv time the administra­ receiving legislative authority to proceed with tion of the Act is transferred away from the the arrangements provided for in the Bill. Department of Harbours and Marine, the permanent head of the department taking I commend the Bill to the House. up the administration would take the place of the Director of the Department of Harbours Mr. JONFS (Cairns) (8.45 p.m.): So far and Marine on the corporation. Provision as the Opposition is concerned, the objects is made for the later appointment of the of the Bill are contrary to the best methods general manager of the corporation to the the Government could adopt to resolve the board if this is desired. problems conf>ronting this State and its tourist * Members of the corporation will be industry. The Rill is contrary ,to Labor appointed for an initial term of five years. thinking and contrary to what a Labor Appointments thereafter will be for terms Government would do in similar circum­ of three years. stances. * The functions of the corporation and its By its past actions, ,the Govemment has powers in respect of those functions are stunted the proper grow,th of the Tourist set out in clauses 13 and 14 of the Bill. Bureau and the Tourism Department. The There is no need for me to enunciate Government has restricted funding of the them in this summary. bureau and the department and has therefore * The corporation will appoint the staff stinted on the promotion, research and it requires, subject to a maximum num­ development of ,tourism as an industry in ber determined by the Minister, and will Queensland. It is now proposed to replace 4310 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill the Minister's advisory committee with a authority. The potential will not be increased statutory authority to be termed the Queens­ by setting up a remote body away from this land TourJst and Tmvel Corporation. Parliament. Judging by what .the Minister and other The abolition of the Department of Government spokesmen said at the intro­ Tourism and the Queensland Government ductory stage, the corporation will have Tourist Bureau is wrong in principle and magical qua1~ties ·that w.ill resolve all the we oppose it. The exercise will fail, as it problems confronting the Queensland tourist has failed in Tasmania and Victoria. To industry. I see this measure as a fob-off. attempt to run the tourist industry with a This body, authorJty, corporation, or what­ part-time board of directors, drawn from ever it may be called, will take responsibility whatever sources the Governor in Council for tourism f.rom the Government's shoulders, might determine, is fraught with danger. and .the Government hopes that it will take it out of the political arena. That is where Mr. Scott: All the silver-tails. it will lie and rot so far as .the Government Mr. JONES: All the silver-tails will be is concerned. The Government wants to put on it. I shall talk about the composition wash its hands completely of tourism. later on. Such a conporation was t~ied in Tasmania. The Opposition sees this measure as one Tourism was taken away from the Govern­ that cannot succeed. We say that the ment in the way that is proposed by this Minister is abdicating his authority and measure. After a testing period, it revel)ted handing over what he says is the fourth to Goverrunent control. This move in industry in Queensland. It has the potential Queensland is flying in the face of the Tas­ to be the richest industry in Queensland. manian experience and the Opposition sees it as nothing but a disaster. It was said at the introductory stage and at the workshop on tourism and the Great I believe there is a similarity between ,the Barrier Reef that tourism is second in the V,ictorian corporation and .the proposed world to the oil industry as an income­ Queensland corporation. In Victoria, the earner. A part-time board chosen by one Tourist Department was swallowed up by the person-this is a one-person Government­ Department of Decent·ra1i.sation and State by reason of political connections will be Development. The V•ictorian set-up is in .a a far cry from an organisation that would shambles. My advice from the other States meet the needs of the tourist industry or is that the establishment of a corpora~ion provide what those in the industry are or other statutory authority is nothing short crying out for. This was reflected at the of disastrous, and tha.t for Queensland to seminar at Mackay. contemplate it is absolutely rJdiculous. It is out of style, out of date, and will not Mr. Warburton: And has been for 10 work. The Tasmanian experience w.ill be years. repeated in Victoria, and without doubt we, too, will follow T·asmania. In Victoria, Mr. JONES: And has been for 10 years. a reversion .to Government control is pres­ The industry has been looking for leader­ ently mooted. The move has been delayed ship, development and depreciation allow­ to date only because in V.ictoria a State ances. It has not been looking for the estab­ election is pending. Everybody-both lishment of an advisory body that will be Government and Opposition-concedes that turned into a statutory authority. The Bill they must revert to the old system and is not the panacea for the tourist industry. identify the Tourism Department and the Really what it is looking for is better union bureau as a separate identity rathe·r than organisation. It needs an industry associa­ have them swallowed up by another depart­ tion. This was mouthed in Mackay by the ment. There should be a separa.te organisa­ people there. They said, "What we really tion, wi·th its own special Department of need is a little oomph, a little of what was Tourism. done by the Cattlemen's Union. We need to take away from the powers that be the This was seen in correct perspective by the say in what wiii happen in the industry. We, Whitlam Labor Government. It was the as tourist operators and entrepreneurs, first Government in the Federal sphere to should be deciding what is to happen in the appoint a Minister for Tourism. We should industry; it should not be a far removed and be reverting to the stage at which, a few remote board which will not be answerable years ago, the Minister for Tourism held to the Parliament." that portfolio in his own right. Now we are dismantling the whole thing and making We, as back-benchers, wiii not be able it something that was different from the to stand up and ask the Minister anything original system. It will not be streamlining about that corporation. He wiii wipe us off the tourist organisation. It will abrade the and say, "I am not responsible. I am not tourist industry. answerable to the Parliament for the actions of that corporation." Despite the flowery phrases that we have heard from the Minister and other Govern­ Mrs. Kyburz: All decisions by the board ment members, the potential of this industry are to be ratified by the Governor in will not be realised by setting up this Council. Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4311

Mr• .TONES: Read what the Minister has Mr• .TONES: That is right, and they wi11 just said. be following .the procedures that have taken place in Tasmania and will take place in Mrs. Kyburz: I have read the Bill. Have Victoria after the election, irrespective of who you? wins. They will revert to the system under Mr• .TONES: Yes. I have read the Bill. which we are operating in this State at present. Mr. Hodges: Your par,ty supported i.t 100 Mr. Casey: Didn't the Governor in Coun­ per cent in Victoria. cil ratify the destruction of the Bellevue? Mr• .TONES: Is .that a fact? That is prob­ Mr. .TONES: The honomable member for ably why they are still in Opposition. I Salisbury saw what happened to the Bellevue think .the Minister is getting his advice from Hotel a~fter .the rat.i!l.cation by the Governor the wrong people who must have relatives in Gounoil of the Government decision on on the hoard of the tomis.t corporation in that occasion. Victoria. My advice from 'people in Victoria Mrs. Kyburz interjected. and Tasmania is ,that the Victorian board or commission, or whatever they caii it, is Mr. .TONES: Of course, I do not believe in a shambles and .that, &rrespecbive of which what is wr~tten in .this Bill as far as r-atifica­ party as in power, when a decision is made tion by the Govel1Ilor in Council is con­ af·ter the ne~t election ,the board will revert cerned. M! I am saying as that .the honour­ to Government control. The only thing that able member cannot absolve ~he Minister has delayed a decision by the Hamer Govern­ and .the Government of responsibiLity in ment has .been the fact that at -the moment this situation. We ought to be able to they are involved ·in an election campaign. question and .be critical of •the body, and Mr. R • .J. Gibbs: And they are involved in we will not be arble to do .that. If it is the filthy land deals, too. ratified by ~he Governor in Council, as the honoumble member for Salisbury says, tit Mr. .TONES: Yes. We seem to be only will be ratified behind closed dooJ1s, and as apprentices up here compared w.ith what is a hack.,bencher .the honourable member for done down there. As .I said, •it has been SaHsburry w.il! not be able to question the proved in Tasmania that it is not possible Minister in relation to what is happening. to conduct such an industry without Govern­ It will be done under the table. ment involvement. The same course wiii be followed in Victoria as was followed in Right .throughout this debate the Minister Tasmania. The Opposit.ion's approach to this has kept saying .that this body wm be able matter will be vindicated. Only Government to make concise decisions; that ·h will not control can give a body such as .this the be hog-tied by reguLations; that it will recog­ flexibility and capacity to handle these prob­ nise the wor:th of people; that ~t will be lems. Ag·ain .tonight the Minister referred able .to make quick decisions; that .there .will to the eJGpertise of the personnel in the not be any bureauonatic processes rto go Queensland Government Tourist Bureau. He through; that it will be freer; that it wiii be also said that he recognised their .initiative a business-like structure, and so on. The and was appreciative of .their worth. These Minister has been using all these phrases, were some of the terms that he used. They which indicates to me ,that the M.inister and have the potential, capaci.ty and capability the Government are dissociating themselves to compete in all areas of the market. This f-rom the responsibility for what will happen was recognised. Yet the Minister says that in the tourist .indusnry and foisting it upon only the restrictions that applied ·to .the this body whose membership wiii be decided depar,tment and the bureau held them back. behind closed doors. There is .to .be no election of its members; .they wm just ibe My charge is that the only restriction that appointed. Its members wiii not be respons­ held them back was finance. That was ible to .this Parliament. This is just one more reiterated in the last report of the Director­ area of responsibi1ity lost to .this Parliament. General of Tourism to this Parliament. That It ·is not in the community •interest .to have was the only restriction placed on them. this board set up. This is typical of what happens when this Government sets about destroying something. Mr. Powell: Have you read the Ball? It did this with the branch lines in the rail­ way. It restricts expenditure and lets the Mr. .TONES: Of course I have read .the operation run down. The same thing Bill. The catchcries of competition for •the happened with the Beilevue. The balustrades tourist dollar and global prospects, more were pulled off and the place was allowed leisure time, higher visitor levels, excellent to run down. Then it was knocked over. prospects for the .tourist indusnry and better Mr. Warburton: The bureau is becoming bed occupancy, have aJI been canvassed, but, the scapegoat. to •be rea1istic, they are not confi·rmed by pracbice. Mr. .TONES: That is correct. Mr. Scott: All those things will hang Lack of funding is quite evident and was round theix necks like an aLbatross in time highlighted in the report of the Director­ to come. General of Tourism in relation to research, 4312 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

promotion and development within the consulted? Why were they not asked for Queensland Government Tourist Bureau. It their opinions or to nominate representatives? is quite misleading to indicate that the No, it was done in the back rooms of the bureau did not have the selling force. What Government parties. It was done by Cabinet, was lacking was finance, not any incentive or by one member of Cabinet. It was done on on the part of the bureau. The Department a party-political basis. of Tourism and the Queensland Government Tourist Bureau have intimate knowledge of The composition of the corporation prob­ the tourist industry. Of course, it has been ably will be the same as the composition of outweighed by lack of finance. Finance has the ministerial advisory committee: Mr. not been available to the existing bodies and F. T. Moore (Chairman); Mr. R. Porter (I personnel. These bodies are money-starved. am told that he has a black ball on him. That is what is wrong with the Queensland He comes from Proserpine, and there are Government Tourist Bureau and the Depart­ other things that make his unacceptable.); ment of Tourism in Queensland. They are Mr. L. Black; Mr. K. Williams; Mr. K. J. not lacking in expertise, and that has been Driscoll; and Mr. J. Kennedy. It is surprising acknowledged in this House by not only but I am advised by operators within the the Minister but also most members who industry on the South Coast that at least have taken part in the debate. two of these men have been involved in promotion bureaus, development bureaus, or It is not true to say that the purpose of whatever one might call them, in a particular this Bill is to provide a new selling force. area. Because I do not wish to denigrate The Minister seems to indicate that in some them, I shall not name them; but it way there will be some magic, that something may make the Minister carry out a little will happen all of a sudden just by trans­ more investigation before he makes appoint­ ferring the functions of these organisations ments. One is a president and one is a past to a statutory body, which is to be called president of an organisation-and the honour­ a corporation-a rose by any other name. able member for Surfers Paradise might cor­ I do not concur with that proposition; nor rect me if I am wrong in saying this-and does the Opposition. they left that organisation bankrupt, and The Minister's statement that the new their business acumen in that instance-- corporation members will be able to argue forcefully, fluently and confidently on Mr. Bishop: I will certainly correct you Queensland's behalf in the boardrooms and on that, because you are wrong. I will at the conference tables around the world correct you later. smacks of heralding around-the-world jaunts. Mr. JONES: Well, my information is that Such trips will be available, apparently, to I am pretty close to the truth. I have not corporation members. They certainly were the figures, but that certainly was so, and not available to the promotion and sales staff it would appear to me that the details and of the bureau. That is one area in which terms of appointment should have been neglect has been shown. broader. Who these people might be and The Minister foreshadowed in his intro­ what their origins and political affiliations ductory remarks and in his second-reading are has been fairly well canvassed. speech the appointment of a small, elite group of individual entrepreneurs and opera­ Mr. Goleby: Tell us about Jim Kennedy. tors directly involved with the industry. They Mr. JONES: The honourable member can will be selected not by election or ballot but, talk about him. I do not intend to go into more likely, by political patronage. All of a personalities. The Minister will correct me sudden, these people, who will be brought if I am wrong. out of the cobwebs of the National Party's back rooms, are going to rejuvenate and People within the tourist industry expressed revitalise the tourist sector within this State. concern by resolution at the industry seminar I believe that this will not happen. on tourism on the Great Barrier Reef at Mackay about the composition of the cor­ Many red herrings have been drawn across poration and also about the set-up of the the trail. When this committee was set up advisory committee. It was stated there that to advise the Minister on the establishment nobody had canvassed the tourist industry of a statutory board, what criteria were used as such about the setting up of the corpora­ to select the personnel appointed to the tion or the committee, that they were not committee? Who was involved in the nomina­ broadly based, and that many sections of tion and appointment of the members of the the industry-the hotel section, the transport committee? What methods of selection were section, and other sections-were not rep­ used? Was any cognisance taken of the fact resented on the advisory committee and will that the Queensland Government Tourist probably not be represented on the board. Bureau has the expertise that the Minister lauded in his two speeches on this Bill? The permanent head of the Minister's Why was the director or his deputy not put department is to come from the Department on the committee? As the change was going of Harbours and Marine, and the board will to affect them greatly, why were employees have the power to appoint a general manager. of the Queensland Government Tourist Of course, there have been many. rumours Bureau not put on the committee? Why were about who the general manager Will be. If the industry and industry organisations not the Minister intends to appoint the relative Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4313

of the man who is on the Victorian com­ be put out to grass, so to speak? Where else mission, I shudder to think how quickly my will he be able to remain on his classifica­ words will be proved to be true. tion? Will he be able to live and work in Mr. Hodges: I haven't given a thought to the town of his choice? What trauma will any of those yet. he and his family go through? Mr• .JONES: Perhaps the Minister ought The problem is no less severe for the young to look at the position very clearly. man who has just entered the Public Service. He, too, will be faced with Mr. Casey interjected. momentous decisions both now and at ,the end of the two-year period of secondment. Mr. !ONES: That may be so, too. We For those reasons, the Opposition sees the have one name at $25,000, and it is quite Bill as one whose principles are in conflict obvious what has happened in that regard. with its own. The Minister continually emphasises the We contend ,that employees within the expertise within the Queensland Govern­ department and the Tounist Bureau should ment Tourist Bureau and the Department of remain within the Public Service and not be Tourism, indicating that both he and the discharged into a new sphere by ,the setting Government recognise and appreciate the up of the corporation. If the Government's wealth of experience within their ranks. In goal is to stimulate ,the tourist industry, it spite of that, nobody in :those depa,rtments has no real need to exclude ,these employees was appointed to the advisory committee. I venture to suggest that nobody will be from the Public Serwce. The Government appointed ;to the board of the corporation, could very easily set up the corporation and either. By telling these people how efficient allow the employees to remain in the Public 1hey are and by not appointing them to the Service. If the Government wanted the cor­ advisory committee or the board, the Minis­ poration divorced from the Public Service, ter is merely giving them a backhanded free to make decisions at managerial level, compliment. A representative of the employ­ that has been done by legislation in a way ees of the Government Tourist Bureau that the Government wanted to do it. should be appointed to the board. If such The Tourist Department and the Queens­ talent is not being used, the limitations land Government Tounist Bureau could have ~referred to by the Minister do in fact exist. been revamped or reorganised without resort­ The expression of limitations within the ing to the expulsion of all the employees department and the Tourist Bureau needs from the Public Service. I expect that many some elaboration. problems lie ahead of the Government in The Minister intends to replace 1he the light of this course of action, but the Department of Tourism and the Tourist Government is obviously bent on foisting this Bureau, which between them employ problem on ,the staff. These are hurdles that approximately 250 or 300 employees, with ,the Government will have ,to meet, and not what he terms a public company set-up to only at the management level. Many hurdles cope with the problems facing the tourist will confront both ,the new corporation and industry. I can well understand why he is the Government. leaving the ship before it founders. The financial vote for 'the corporation's The staff problems will be of great magni­ expenses will come mainly from Consolidated tude. At the introductory stage I outlined Revenue. The first 10 per cent is to be met the problems confronting employees in the from earnings. But what will happen in Department of Tourism and the Tourist paying commissions and fees to the various Bureau. Again I reiterate that ,the employees agents? Are the agents 'to be wiped or will still feel concern for their future. The State ,they be paid in the same way? Will the Service Union, which was praised by both Government pay them commission from the Government and Opposition members, is commission it gets, or is the corporation to most concerned for its members. The setting be merely a ,ticket-sellirng organisation? The up of this statutory body outside the Public Government is increasing the problems. I fail Service is a matter of grave concern to the to see how the commissions will increase to union. the level expected. Imagine the decision facing the employee The Government has painted a glamorous himself, whether he be newly appointed to picture about promoting tourism in the State the Tourist Bureau, a young married man of Queensland, and it be1ieves that commis­ with a family and with financial commit­ sions will increase suddenly. It hopes that ments, an employee who has been in the the level of commissions will rise above the department for many yea;rs, o,r one who level normally received. It emphasises that has been in the Public Service for 30 or the extra money will be used for the pro­ 40 years. He must decide whether to accept motion and development of tourism; that secondment to this statutory body outside all these wonderful things will be done for the Public Servke or remain in the Public the tourist industry. Queries have been raised Service. He has to consider his super­ about the degree of funding and the extent annuation entitlements as well as other mat­ of funds available, but I do not believe the ters. Look at the position of the classified Government can expect to get the money to employee who has given his life to the do all ,the things it hopes to do. I cannot see Department of Tourism. If he does not how income can be increased magically by want to leave the Public Service, will he such a large amount. 4314 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

We have had the impression that the Gov­ say that because it is important-will recog­ ernment was motivated to establish this cor­ nise that the Government is attempting to poration by the cheaper air fares. It seems that give recognition to one of the greatest indus­ the international cheap air fares operate in tries that this State could have. Australia only to and from Sydney and Mel­ I noted the Minister's opening remarks bourne airports. I visited Sydney recently about parochialism. Within the confines of and talked to some of the people coming to my electorate tourism is the second most Australia. Most of ,them extend their finances important industry. This is an area where to come to Australia. They save up and spend the local people do not really recognise the their money to travel 'to Australia. In places importance of tourism, and the attempts by of arrival they are confined to Sydney or the department to form regional tourist Melbourne. If they have a Little extra money associations were a move in the right direc­ they may be able to visit Adelaide or Can­ tion to have people in local areas recognise berra, the national capital. They certainly the importance of tourism. With the forma­ cannot afford to fly to the Great Barrier tion of the Queensland Tourist and Travel Reef, Ayers Rock or other places. Most of Corporation, one would hope that that recog­ them will not travel to Queensland. The Gov­ nition will spread far more evenly throughout ernment will not get any large rake-off from the State. them. It will not increase its commissions as In his introductory remarks the Minister much as it expects. spoke about parochialism and one can under­ stand his frustration with those who rose and I think it has been said in this debate-it spoke about the attractions of their own certainly was at the seminar in Mackay­ areas. The Queensland Tourist and Travel that the international tourists who travel Corporation should be able to attract people in Queensland constitute only 4 per cent to Queensland. That should be its first and of all tourists. That includes people from most important function. Having got the New Zealand. We in the Far North are people to Queensland, it is up to the indi­ reconciled to the fact that most of the vidual area, with the co-operation of the people who come north are domestic tourists corporation, to attract people to its area. who travel by the cheapest method possible One can imagine the corporation's being -the family car. In the time that he has able to hold seminars in various areas and available on his annual leave or long service to conduct package tours to various areas. leave or in his retirement, the tourist tries to travel as far as possible. Approximately Whereas the Queensland Government 85 per cent of the people who come to our Tourist Bureau has in the past been fettered area travel by car. by the Public Service Board, the new corpor­ ation will be unfettered and that, I believe, I do not see that the co-ordination of the is one of the most important principles of industry will achieve as much as the Govern­ this Bill. It gets away from the control ment hopes. I do not believe that the enforced by the Public Service Board board, authority or corporation will have throughout the State by virtue of the size enough influence in the board rooms of of the Public Service and the rules that it the Australian airline companies, or in the has to make to try to cover what occurs national capital, to reduce domestic air in many departments. The corporation will fares sufficiently to induce international tour­ not be bound by those rules and therefore ists to come to the Far North. It seems management will have a much freer hand that the Government hopes, by some magi­ in conducting its affairs throughout the cal process, to attract more people to North State, and this seems to be a most important Queensland. thing. The suggestion by the Opposition spokes­ One for the concerns expressed in the man that management could be separate industry is the need for research into what from the Public Service Board while every­ our visitors seek in Queensland, why they body else in the corporation comes under the come here, what they expect, who comes, control of the board shows that he has how often they travel and how they travel. little grasp of the problems that have to be Of course, sufficient finance has not been faced. We could not have half the corpora­ available. l!t is only recen1ly that one research tion under the control of the board and the officer was appointed in Queensland. No other half under the control of the manage­ doubt he is inundated with problems. ment. I believe it is important that the whole corporation be free of the rules and The Opposition sees no benefit emanating regulations of the Public Service Board. from the establishment of the Queensland The spokesman for the Opposition also Tourist and Travel Corporation, except to castigated the Government because it had the members who might be appointed to the not made provision, or so he said, for people board. We do not share the Government's who are presently employed by the Tourist expectations. Bureau and are therefore members of the Public Service, and who would like to con­ Mr. POWELL (Isis) (9.24 p.m.): The pre­ tinue with the Public Service. But if he vious speaker gave us the usual speech of goes carefully through the Bill-and that is doom from the A.L.P. without a construc­ why I asked him by way of interjection if tive thought or a constructive piece of criti­ he had read the Bill-he will see that clauses cism. Members who have read the Bill-! 16 and 17 give adequate protection to and Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4315 make adequate provision for anybody in Mr. Jones: I spoke to about 50 people. at the situation he outlined. I believe that that tourist seminar in Mackay. A resolutiOn the Government is being very careful indeed went through that they were not consulted. about the way in which the corporation will be set up. Mr. POWELL: There are more than 50 tourist operators in Queensland. I know The Opposition spokesman also said that that the industry has been consulted. The his advice from Tasmania and Victoria was Queensland Government Tourist Bureau, as that similar corporations in those States part of the industry, has certainly been con­ were disasters. I would like to know from sulted. That is where the information has from whom he obtained the information and come from. whether that person was biased. I would suggest that he must have been because We have heard a Jot about the seminar Tasmania receives something like 350,000 held in Mackay. A tremendous amount of visitors per annum. In Queensland we do criticism has been levelled at Government not know the exact number of visitors we members for not attending that seminar. I, receive. Once again, the honourable mem­ along with many other Government members ber for Cairns rightly stated that research who are vitally interested in tourism, did not into this industry in Queensland was either receive an invitation to the seminar. I nil or vitrually nil. The reason for this is imagine that, because the seminar was held lack of finance. Because the corporation in Mackay, invitations were sent to people will be managing its own affairs, it will in that region and north of it. Because the be able to pay due regard to research and seminar was concentrated on that part of then be able to answer the criticisms-- Queensland, the people responsible ~or send­ ing out the invitations were not warned about Mr. Warburton: Where is it going to get people in the southern part of the State. the money? The Opposition spokesman on tourism said Mr. POWELL: Has the honourable mem­ that the formation of this corporation is ber read the Bill? contrary to Labor Party policy. I do not doubt that it is contrary to Labor Party Mr. Warburton: Yes. policy, because this corporation ~ill inject into tourism a spirit of free enterpnse, some­ Mr. POWELL: If the honourable member thing to which the Opposition is diametri­ reads clause 40 he will have the answer to his query, because the corporation will cally opposed. be able to keep the fees obtained from the The Opposition spokesman on tourism operation of package tours, commissions and also said that the Parliament would have no what have you, and use them to the best say in what happens within the corporation. advantage. By doing this it will be able Again he is entirely_ 'Yrong. CI:~use 13_ (3) to project itself into the whole of the State. provides that the Mm1ster may Issue direc­ tions and his directions must be observed. The corporation will be important to the Clau;e 60 provides that the corporati~n shall whole of the State, and when we look at the furnish an annual report to the Parliament. clause dealing with membership of the As the Minister is a member of this Parlia­ corporation, we see that there are to be ment we have complete control over what seven members. One will be the permanent the Minister does with the corporation. If the director or manager, and the other six will be corporation gets out of hand, or if it does appointed by the Governor in Council. I something that the Government does not make an earnest plea to the Minister to like then the Government has the complete ensure that the six appointed members of po~er-it is written into the Bill-to control the corporation do not come from one the corporation. particular area of the State. If they do, then some of the doom that has been forecast in The ·criticism that has been levelled by this place will eventuate. The Minister must the Opposition is just !l!T¥-fairy. The recognise that tourism is important to the Opposition has no firm criticism to offer. whole of the State and not just to one It has no firm ideas to put forward. It small section of it. The south-east section, would like to maintain control of the cor­ especially the Gold Coast area, gets most poration by the Public Ser_vice Board; it publicity at the moment. would like to see the corporatiOn do what the Government envisages that it will do. Mr. R. J. Gibbs: You would be concerned Commission from air fares was mentioned. about your local area, and that is fair enough. The Minister's answer to a question that I What guarantee can you get out of this asked in the House this morni~g g_ives . a Bill that that will happen? fairly good indication ?f the di,rectiOn . m Mr. POWELL: The guarantee is that we which he will be sendmg the corporatiOn have a fair and equitable Government, and where air fares in Queensland are con­ I am part of it. cerned. Probably every member of.. this Assembly would be aware that overseas VISlt?rs The Opposition spokesman on tourism, to Australia receive an air fare concessiOn the honourable member for Cairns, said that that we Australians cannot receive. In my the industry was not consulted before the opinion, that is wr?ng, and il}- _answ~ri~g my corporation was suggested. How does he question this mornmg the Mm1ster md1cated know? Has he spoken to everybody in the that he will be doing all in his power-and tourist industry in Queensland? I doubt it. that will be through the corpomtion shortly 4316 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill to be set up--to make sure that concessions Mr. CASEY (Mackay-Leader of the of that type can be granted to people flying Opposition) (9.40 p.m.): I suppose I could within Queensland. commence by saying that a rose by any It is true that the most sensible and other name is still a rose. I am wondering easiest way of travelling in this vast State what is the real intent of the legislation. is by air. It also is true to say that the In the Queensland Government Tourist facilities for travel by air in Queensland Bureau we have a very efficient organisation Me not adequate. It is true, too, that the and one that is experienced in the conduct new Super Apex and Apex fares introduced of tourism in the State. It has done a by T.A.A. recently are not available to non­ tremendous amount in the promotion of the jet ports, and I think that is wrong. In tourist industry. It was set up a long time answer to a question that I asked this morn­ ago and since then has done a great deal ·ing, the Minister for Transport stated that for tourism in Queensland by promoting it he thought .that they were available on all not only in this State but also in other air routes in Queensland and that if that States. was not so he would be investigating the From time to time I have been critical matter. I hope he has rinvestigated and made of some of the methods used by it in the suitable noises .to the Federal Minister for promotion of tourism, and at times I think Transport, because it is not so, and that it has been taken down the line by public is a direct fetter on tourism in Queensland. relations consultants used by it, particularly It is important to be able to get people in the southern States. However, by and from place .to place quickly. It is important large, it has done a very good job. that we have airports that are well equipped and can handle jet aircraft, because a tour­ So again I say I am wondering why the ist does not want to fly from overseas, land Government is introducing legislation that will rin a port such as Sydney, change airrcraft to break up the Queensland Government Tourist get rto a port such as Brisbane, change again Bureau. I see no reason why that should be to get ·to ports up the coast, and then done to a perfectly good organisation. probably change even a third or fourth time On the surface, a number of principles as he goes from first-class airports down to embodied in the Bill sound reasonable. lower grade airports. The corporation will Some clauses go into great detail to explain have a rr-esponsibility-and it will be a very how certain new principles will be devel­ real responsibility-to make representations oped and will operate. However, the crux to the two air carriers that we have in of the Bill is the method of selection of Australia to make sure that they give the membership of the corporation. The per­ consumer a fair deal. It is my contention sons who are selected will virtually have .that at present the consumer in Australia complete control of tourism in Queensland. is not getting a fair deal in air fares. They will report through the Minister to The commissions fmm all ·the activities Parliament only once every 12 months and, that the corporation will undertake will go if we are lucky, we will probably ·be able towards the Dunding of the corporation and to debate their Estimates once every two the running of it. In my opinion, that is a or three years. Consequently, it is as well step in the right direction, because the to express now any fears that we may have corporation will be able to project itself concerning the corporation. and market its products in the same way My spokesman for tourism has pointed as any other commercial organisation, again out that the A.L.P. is totally opposed to without being fettered by the rules and the method of selection of persons who will regulations of the Public Service Board. be representatives on the board of the cor­ 'Having read the Bill, I find this an exciting poration. We are opposed to selection. As step forward for tourism in Queensland. I leader of the Labor Party, I do not say do not wish that to be regarded as a snide that lightly. Anyone who goes back through or severe criticism of the present Queensland legislation that the Labor Party put into the Government Tourist Bureau, ·because I think statute-book, whether it concerns primary that the officers of the bureau have done industries or other industries that have done everything that they could possibly do within a good deal for the development of Queens­ the Public Service Board regulations. That land, will find that the Labor Party's pro­ is why I am so pleased to see in the Bill posal has always been appointment by election that those regulations will ·be taken away by the people concerned in the industry. and that the corporation will be unfettered. That principle has applied whether the body set up was an advisory one to the Govern­ I look forward to being part of the Gov­ ment or one operating for and on behalf of ernment that introduces and implements this the Government. People within an industry corporation, because I believe that it will should be given the opportunity of selecting be very good for tourism in the State of from among themselves those who they Queensland as a whole. I hope that the consider are best qualified to serve the regional tourist associations throughout the industry as a whole. State will be able to upgrade themselves to work in co-operation with the corporaHon, The method of selection as incorporated so that tourists to Queensland will be well in the Bill is one to which we are totally served, well fed and courteously looked after, opposed. It is certainly not democratic. as I believe that we Queenslanders can look I accept the sincerity of the Minister who after them. is introducing the Bill, but I suggest that Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4317

in future times this method of selection will selves. This legislation is similar to many lead to jobs for the boys in the tourist other pieces of legislation that have come industry. before us in recent times. I do not want to expound the stories One of the major provisions in the Bill circulating to the effect that the Minister setting out what the new corp~ration. will will not be with us in this Parliament for do indicates that the measure IS designed too much longer. Whoever takes over from to encourage and upgrade existing tourist him will have the responsibility of adminster­ travel facilities. My goodness, that is needed ing his portfolio. As I said, I accept the in many areas of the State, but there are Minister's sincerity, but promises given to many problems to be overcome. the House by him on this occasion may I do not want to traverse the ground that not be honoured by his successor. If the was covered in the introductory debate to principle of democratic election is set. down which the Minister has replied, and to which in the Bill, it will be there for all time to my shadow Minister has referred at _lengt!J.. ensure that a proper system satisfactory to There is a need to upgrade tounsm m the industry operates within it. It should Queensland, but that need comes back to be such that it can be changed only on the the operators. They are unabl<; to upgrade advice of the industry as a whole. In that tourism without adequate financial resources. way we would get away from the concept of That is where their main problem lies. They jobs for the boys. are still hit by the lack of a depreciation allowance· that is their biggest single In recent weeks many matters have been problem. 'Their needs are not bei?g c~m­ brought before Parliament that certainly sidered properly. The fact tha~ the~r bu~ld­ indicate that something corrupt is happening ings and other assets depr_ec~ate IS bemg in certain areas of Queensland. We are very ignored. If they have to bmld hotels- concerned about some Government actions that have not been properly reported to this Mr. Hodges: That is outside my jurisdic­ Parliament. Who knows what could happen tion. in the tourist industry? Mr. CASEY: Certainly it is outside t~e Minister's jurisdiction. But it means that this Tourism is a big industry in Queensland Bill or some of the intentions of the Bill involving a great amount of money each that have been expressed in good faith by year. It is an expanding industry which will the Minister can never be implemented until attract much more money in the years to we-and I "we" on a joint basis--can come. Some great entrepreneurs in the ~ean industry are making a quid out of it and do something about that problem. they want a bigger share for themselves. If a person builds a factory to manufacture They are not interested in the little fellow nuts and bolts, he can claim full depreciation or the small towns in the remote western allowance on the factory. If he has a and other areas of the State. The really building for the retail sale of beds, he can big tourist entrepreneurs are looking with claim full depreciation allowance on the greedy eyes at this legislation to see what building. However, if a person has a building they will be able to get out of it. with beds in it that he sells to people to use overnight, he cannot claim that deprecia­ As I said at the outset, this legislation is tion allowance. abolishing the major role that the Tourist With tourists constantly coming into and Bureau has played in this State. There is going out of tourist areas, there is a need for no need for this legislation. We should be regular furniture replacement programmes, able to alter the existing legislation to do which are very expensive. The upgrading what is wanted. But for the Queensland of tourist facilities is one of .the biggest Government Tourist Bureau, some major problems. Wallpapers have to be changed, tourist resources in this State would be and new beds new furniture, new chairs and untapped. I instance the Great Barrier Reef new carpets 'have to be provided approxi­ area. Most honourable members have mately every five years. But the operator visited it at some time, and many honourable suffers because his taxation deductions do members spoke about it at the introductory not cover those items. That is the biggest stage. I know it is very dear to my shadow problem of all, and it is deterring many Minister. He knows the area full well and operators from coming into an area. and has attended recent seminars on it. Tourism investing large sums of money. That IS the in that area would not have developed prop­ real story of our tourist industry at present. erly if the Queensland Government Tourist Bureau had not opened offices-and run We talk about overseas tourists and what them at a loss for many years-in places the cheaper air fares will do. Statistics such as Mackay, Cairns and Townsville. indicate that the place most people want to That assisted tourist operators in those areas see is the Great Barrier Reef yet, accord­ to develop tourist resorts. ing to the figures released by Qantas, only 4 per cent of international visitors see it. The history is there for all to see. The That is an infinitesimal percentage. It supposed objectives of the Bill are already indicates that we are not selling tourism being carried out by a very competent body. properly. Looked at it in that light, the legislation I have visited some of the islands in my merely ensures that certain of the Govern­ electorate and I am very proud of them. ment's mates will make a quid for them- I have spoken to tourists from Germany and 4318 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill other places who have said straight out, as Mr. Jones: So why should they have two we already know, that the standard of accom­ people on the advisOTy committee? modation is not good enough for the money that is being paid. The standard cannot Mr. CASEY: That is one of the points I be improved until the operators are given a am coming to. Being such a great tourist proper investment allowance or some other area does not mean that 1t should dominate form of assistance. I shall come back to the whole st,ate. It is an old adage that ,the that shortly. strong should he·Lp the •weak, and this applies to tourism as much as it applies .to any Mr. Lester: We have built a nice new other industry. I do not think it is fair motel in Emerald. .to say .that all the best tour.ist operators Mr. CASEY: It is a nice motel. It is are situated in the south-east corner of the the Emerald Star Hotel Motel and I have State. It will be found that entrepreneurs stayed at it. Another new one is being in the touris.t industry who have had to built there. In the near future, when I go baUle hard in other areas of the State are out there to introduce the new Labor mem­ probably just as deserving of membership ber for Peak Downs to the people in that of such a committee as are those from the area, I might stay at it. Bill Coffey will be Gold Coast. So I believe that representa­ the new Labor member, and he is a very tion on this committee should be split up experienced and capable person. amongst all the tour"ist regions in the State. I also believe, as I said earlier, that these Another matter of concern to me, if representatives should be elected by their we are to attract more tourists, is the need peers in •the industry. for adequate and proper staff training. I know this matter is mentioned in the Bill. The Bill aLso pwvides for the setting aside I know that in some areas courses have of a certain amount of the income of •the been provided at technical colleges to give cor:poration~I think it is 10 .per cent-which some training for people involved in the must be used for promotion. I ·think it must tourist industry. It is a great employer of have been very difficult to a11r:ive at ·that labour. As most other employees are figure, and I think it should be increased. assisted with apprenticeships, the people who I feel that much mme than that percentage want to enter the tourist industry must would already ·be spent by .the va:rious tourism be given some Government training assist­ organisations of which I have had eXjperience ance. In order to work in a hotel these in Queensland in 1he promotion of tourism days, one has to be properly qualified. It not only in their own areas but throughout is not the simple job that it was in the old the State. In the short time available days, and a person must be able to provide and with so many other things happening the service that people require. People are these days, it has been a little difficuLt to paying for a higher standard of service than interpret the exaot meaning of that clause. ever before and they must be given that For sure, I think .that revenue for pro­ service. But they will not get it unless motional purposes in mo!'lt areas of the State we have properly trained staff at all levels. will have to be provided by .the Government. Concern has been expressed for the future I have always been concerned about the of the very capable staff of the Queeru;land remote-area resorts in Queensland. I refer Government Tourist Bureau. Long before I not only to those in the Great Barrier Reef became .the member for Maclmy, cl! my area; I refer also to resort areas such as travel arrangements were organised through the Carnarvons, the gemfields, Mt. Isa, the office of :the Tour;ist Bureau in Mackay, Normanton, Karumba and Cape York. These and they have done an excellent job. days, a great number of people want to visit Wherever I have gone, even interstate, I have Cape York. A number of safari tours are always made a point of calling on the staff being conducted in the area. Even the fellow of the Tourist Bureau office, and I have right out in Birdsville provides the unique always found them to be very helpful, experience, if one wants it, of a 20-day obliging and efficient in their work, for which camel ride into the Simpson Desert. Such they deserve a ment1on. I hope rthey are people are promoters in their own right. It prope!!ly protected by ·this Bill. is not so much what they are doing; it is Although there has been some criticism the other travel that they generate within of the promotion of tourism in the south-east the State. People have to travel to and from corner of the State, I accept that the Gold these areas by plane, car and train. The Coast is one of ·the great tourist areas of people employed in such areas by those Queensland. The tourist operators in that promoters or sellers of tourism, or whatever area have promoted it very well in ·the one likes to call them, play a very important southern States, and even overseas. But the role in their communities. Now high fuel Gold Coast has become an area where tourism costs, in particular, are affecting the success has become self-genemting. Its promotion of their operations. of tourism has been so strong that it is now Sure, we have seen recently the introduc­ virtually self-perpetuating. It is now in a tion of Apex and Super Apex air fares, which situatron a little like 1that of Disneyland. can provide a reduction of up to 45 per cent Once a resort of that type is built, it gener­ on the normal fare. Those fares will help a ates its own promotion and •thus continues little. But most of these tourists travel in to grow. their own cars. During the debate on the Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4319

introduction of this Bill, we talked about the I am sure that the honourable member Bruce Highway and other highways. They are would not be aware that members of the just not good enough. Minister's parliamentary committee have We have to turn to the resort areas them­ visited Victoria to examine the operations selves, where people actually lay their heads there. However, it is true, as the honourable down for the night and spend most of their member said, that there are problems in time. That is the area where the tourist Victoria, and I am sure that similar problems operator is finding it most difficult, for the will not occur here under the corporation. simple reason that he cannot get any financial The honourable member for Albert, as a assistance. member of the parliamentary committee, went to Victoria, as did the Minister's I know that the Bill provides that the cor­ advisory committee. What happened in poration shall be entitled to provide certain Victoria was that the Government split the loans and to help certain people. I am area of promotion from the operations of fearful that the right sort of people will the Victorian Government Tourist Bureau, not get support under these circumstances. and that is where it ran into trouble. The I myself very much favour the type of restructuring of the Queensland Government authority that has been established in New Tourist Bureau into the new corporation Zealand. I am not sure of its , exact name, will overcome the difficulty that occurred in but a remote resort body has been set up Victoria. over there. The New Zealand Government virtually became an equal partner with The spokesman for the Opposition also tourist operators in establishing proper went to some lengths to say that he could resorts and in providing decent and reason­ not see how the new tourist corporation able facilities in the areas where people spend could bring tourists to Queensland. He a little time. completely ignores the way in which the commission will operate and the enormous Mr. Davis: They are pioneers. potential that exists in Australia for people to travel. I think I mentioned at the intro­ Mr. CASEY: Yes, as the member for ductory stage, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that Brisbane Central said, they help to pioneer about 50 per cent of Australians do not those areas. Government has to become travel; so there is an enormous scope for an involved because, under the present circum­ increase in the number of Australians from stances, the operators themselves cannot other States visiting Queensland. There is afford to provide such facilities here in also enormous scope for more overseas Queensland. I think that this is what we visitors to be brought to Queensland. In my have to start to look at more in Queensland. opinion, the corporation will provide leader­ I would much prefer to see introduced into ship, initiative and incentives that will bring this House a Bill to set up in Queensland that tourists to Queensland. type of authority, rather than the type of I would like members of the Opposition authority that we are to set up under this to take note of a number of rather significant Bill. aspects of the Bill that could control what One of my main concerns about the tourist some members of the Opposition seem to industry in Queensland relates to remote fear. For example, there is a clause in the area resorts and to the fellows who are still Bill that will allow any member of the struggling to pioneer their areas. In most corporation or of the board to be dismissed at areas, in tourism, Queensland is still very any time. That is a rather significant provision. much a pioneering State. These are the people who want support. I say unhesitatingly Mr. Jones: It is clause 10 (3) if you are that this Bill will do nothing whatever to looking for it. help them. Mr. BISHOP: Yes. I am pleased that the honourable member knows that it is there. Mr. BISHOP (Surfers Paradise) (10.4 p.m.): After listening to the Opposition speakers The honourable member for Cairns also on this Queensland Tourist and Travel Cor­ made some uninformed comments about the poration Bill, I fully understand what Mr. Gold Coast Visitors Bureau. Beattie meant last night on television when Mr. Jones: That is it; the accommodation he denigrated the conduct of the Opposition. It is quite evident that members of the owners as well. Opposition have not read the Bill and do not Mr. BISHOP: I will mention them, too, if understand it. the honourable member wishes me to do so. The Opposition spokesman, the honourable The honourable member mentioned the Gold member for Cairns, made a number of points Coast Visitors Bureau. that were misleading, if not totally inaccu­ Mr. Jones: You mentioned it; I adverted rate. For example, he compared operations to it. in Victoria and Tasmania with the proposal that has been put forward for the establish­ Mr. BISHOP: It happens to be the organ­ ment of the corporation in Queensland. Of isation of which Mr. Lee Black is chairman course, what he said could not be further and of which Mr. vVilliams is president­ from the truth. There is not really any com­ the gentlemen mentioned by the honourable parison between the purposes of the proposed member-and it also happens that I am a corporation and the operations in Victoria. member of the board of that organisation. 4320 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

The point made by the honourable member the outset, he really does not know what he was that that organisation is broke. It is is talking about. Of course the organisation not broke. has an overdraft. As with most organisa­ Mr. Jones: What is its financial position? tions of this nature, donations to it fluctuate. It does operate on an overdraft. Mr. BISHOP: Does the honourable mem­ Mr. .Jones: What is the amount at the ber wish me to explain to him sensibly what moment? has occurred, or does he want to keep on interrupting? Does he want to get at the Mr. BISHOP: I will ask the treasurer truth? I will get to the point in my own •tomorrow and let the honourable member time, not the honourable member's. The fact know. is that the Gold Coast Visitors Bureau is The Leader of the Opposition spent a operating on a sound financial basis. considerable amount of time seeking to Mr. Jones: In the red. denigrate those persons who he thought have not yet been appointed as board members. Mr. BISHOP: Some organisations operate One pa;ragraph in the Bill adequately covers in the red, others don't. As I say, n is what he had in mind. Clause 29 (7) operating on a sound financial basis, with adequately covers the pecuniary >interest the support of ·the Queensland Government aspect. and the Gold Coast City Council. They give The Opposition seemed to wonder why it it support on the basis of examining on is necessary to set up the corporation. regular occasions each year ·the financial statements of that organisation. It raises Some reference should be made to the fact from the business community over $100,000 that as long ago as 1965 one of the few a year. It is promoted by businessmen them­ investigations of Australia's travel industry selves. It is, I believe, ·the only successful was initiated by the Federal Government visitors' promotional organisation in the when it commissioned Harris, Kerr, Forester whole of Australia. It is certainly the largest. & Company to undertake a report. The investigators made this rather significant Mr. Jones: Is it a fact that Qantas has comment about the role of State Tourist given you away? Departments- Mr. BISHOP: It is not a fact at all. It " ... but in general believes their effective­ might interest the honourable member to ness could be increased (that is the State know that the chairman and one other mem­ Tourist Departments) if they could be ber of the bureau attended the P.A.T.A. given a semi-governmental instrumentality conference, and that was with .the assistance or commission status designed to permit of Qantas. them to function more in the nature of business organizations. In particular, it Many business people and public rn-ganisa­ should not be required that transfers be tions contribute to the Gold Coast Visitors made from other government departments Bureau. It is a .fact that, as with most private of personnel, most of whom are totally promotional organisations, it experiences inexperienced in travel activities." difficulty in raising suffi'Cient funds to pro­ mote adequately. Even the Hawaiian Visi­ They pointed out that latitude should be tors Bureau, which is probably the largest given to boards and commissions. Some 14 and most successful of such bureaux in the years later Queensland has taken this step wocld, receives most of its funds from the to set up such a board. Government. I am a little disappointed in that one Mr. .Tones: You haven't got a very good matter has not been covered adequately by track record down there? the legislation. It relates to the amount of money that the board is to receive initially Mr. BISHOP: In what respect? to promote tourism in Queensland. The Leader of the Opposition was somewhat con­ Mr. Jones: You are in the tred, you are fused about the 10 per cent on commissions. on the nose with Qantas, both chairmen In simple terms it means that the corporation who have been appointed to the advisory com­ will not have any more money than the mittee have led the Gold Coast Visitors Queensland Government Tourist Bureau Bureau up ·the garden path and you haven't presently has to promote the industry in got the confidence of the industry ·in the Queensland. I had hoped that that 10 area. per cent would be removed. At least it Mr. BISHOP: Would the honoumble has an advantage: if the new corporation member claim that a financial membership increases its commissions from sales, the of over 650 businessmen on the Gold Coast percentage available to promote the State indicates that the organisation does not have will be increased accordingly. That is one the support of .the ·community? I challenge advantage and I hope it will accrue in ·the the honourable member to name any future. mganisation of that type in Queensland m I reiterate that I am disappointed that any group of similar organisations that has Opposition members were unable to grasp a membership that contributes in excess of the importance of the Bill and the need for $100,000 a year. The honourable member's it. I commend the Minister on having the comments are utter rubbish and have no determination and courage to bring the meas­ foundation whatever in fact. As I said at ure to the House. Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4321

Mr. R. J. GffiBS (Wolston) (10.17 p.m.): he has never spoken about or promoted­ rise this evening to support my colleagues and he is not even present tonight to hear in opposing this measure. As has been said about it-is the Queen Mary Falls. It is on other occasions, I do not agree that the a beautiful area that most people do not Bill is in the best interests of Queensland, even know about. It was by accident that Queenslanders or the Queensland tourist I found it myself. industrv. A number of facets of the Bill certainiy need very close examination. Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Not Indeed, upon close examination it is found only for the honourable gentleman's benefit that the Government, once again, is attempt­ but for that of the whole of the House, ing to fleece the people of Queensland and let me point out that, while the Bill lends to pull the wool over their eyes by trying itself to wide discussion, I am certainly not to sell its interpretation of free enterprise prepared to have a travelogue of 82 elect­ and the private business sector. It is obvious orates for the remainder of the night. to me from reading the Biii that the Gov­ ernment is letting this vital industry down Mr. R. J. GffiBS: I would not attempt again, just as it has done over many long to give a travelogue. I see it as the respons­ years. ibility of the Government to put together a travelogue to promote the tourist industry I noticed with great interest that in Queensland. What I am talking about is the member for Surfers Paradise men­ the Government's complete lack of fore­ tioned a certain gentleman, namely, sight and promotion to bring before the Mr. Beattie. I would describe Mr. Beattie Queensland public the marvellous attractions as one of the best tourists in Queensland. that are available throughout our State. He belongs to a union that is not even Another example is Green Island. The affiliated with the Australian Labor Party. honourable member for Cairns is very much In my opinion his membership has been very aware of the erosion problem on Green suspect for some time. I suppose he certainlv Island. While the Government has been qualifies as a tourist. He seems to go here aware of the erosion problem on one of and there, but never seems to grasp what the leading tourist resorts in Queensland, Queenslanders or members of the Australian Labor Party really think. it has refused steadfastly to do anything about it or to give funds to those who The Bill contains a number of proposals. are responsible for the administration of that As far as I am concerned, the Ipswich beautiful island and tourist resort. It is area has been very much overlooked by the slowly eroding away day by day and the Queensland Government. Queensland Government has refused to assist in overcoming that problem. Mr. Austin interjected. Mr. Davis: It has helped the Gold Coast. Mr. R. J. GIBBS: It has not been over­ looked by me at all. Dr. Edwards was Mr. R. J. GIBBS: It has helped the Gold elected to Parliament in 1972 and has been Coast in a very big way. Deputy Premier for some time and I doubt Mr. Jones: It has spent $5,500,000 there whether he has done anything to promote in beach-protection works. the tourist facilities and attractions in the Ipswich area. Mr. R. J. GIBBS: And nothing for Green Island. A Government Member interjected. As a former organiser in the Miscellaneous Mr. R. J. GffiBS: It is not a matter of Workers' Union I want to completely scotch the Ipswich City Council Labor administra­ the dreadful argument put up by Govern­ tion at all. The honourable member should ment members on the payment of week-end remember that that council was again penalty rates. I know that my colleague returned with a handsome majority. the honourable member for Archerfield, as a former organiser of the same union, will Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. support my remarks. I travelled throughout Hewitt): Order! The honourable member the length and breadth of this State and will come back to the Bill. talked to prominent people who are intim­ ately involved in the tourist industry and Mr. R. J. GIBBS: One attraction in my who administer tourist resorts and island electorate of Wolston is the Queensland Rail­ resorts. They all said that the problem way Museum. Many people should go and is caused not by penalty provisions in have a very good look at it. It depicts the industrial awards but by the total lack of great history of the Queensland Railways Government support for the industry. That and the work put in by many generations is why the industry in the State is in its of Queenslanders. Indeed, many of the present position. exhibits have played a part in the history Mr. Frawley: Rubbish! of Queensland. Mr. R. J. GlRBS: It is not rubbish at all. It was with great interest today that I One of my colleagues who spoke earlier said listened to the honourable member for War­ that only 4 per cent of overseas tourists wick speaking about his concern for Queens­ come to Queensland; that the rest of them land and his electorate. One attraction that go only to Sydney and Melbourne. 74756-143 4322 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

Mrs. Kyburz: What has that got to do Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. with the Government? Hewitt): Order! The honourable member will resume his seat. The House wiJ,J come Mr. R . .J. GI.BBS: It has a great deal to to order. I believe that the honourable mem­ do with the Government. The Government ber for Peak Downs is parcticipating in the has done absolutely nothing. It was only 12 debate later on, so if he has anything to months ago during the Address-in-Reply rebut I suggest that he contain himself till debate that I called on this Government to then. support cheaper internal air fares. At that time Govel'nment members laughed at my Mr. R • .J. GIBB3: Thank you, Mr. Deputy sugge9tion. None of them were talking about Speaker. I reiterate that I do not believe ,that cheaper internal air fares. Until such 'time the honourable member for Peak Downs has as they take a stand on domestic air fares in fact been truthful in his 'representations and do something about the two-airline sys­ because since he first mentioned the issue tem, they wiil achieve nothing for 'the in 1974 he has not continued to push that Queensland tourist industry. They have to particular point of view. In fact, what I do something definite about improving the am going to suggest here this evening is that internal airline structure. in 1974, I think that a councillor in ~that It is all very well for the Premier to talk par~ticular shire used this as a very cheap, about the problems that he has experienced political and shoddy type of exercise. in outback areas. He adopts a very parochial approach to placate his National Party sup­ Mr. LESTER: I rise ,to a point of order. porters, but I am concerned, as is the Aus­ I ask tha:t tha1t remark be withdrawn. It is tralian Labor Party, about the whole of definitely right off ,the tmck. The record Queensland and the whole of the tourist is there. industry. I think that in this regard, and in Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER Order! There this regard only, the honourable member for Salisbury and other Government members is no point of order. made a very valuable contribution during ,the Mr. R . .J. GIBBS: As I have said-- introductory debate, when they talked about the make-up or the membership of the board Mr. LESTER: I r,ise to a point of order. of ~the proposed ,tourist corporation. It is I do ask that that remark-- most important that we not only have people representing the Gold Coast and ~the Sun­ Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have shine Coast, but also people representing ruled on ,the point of order. I said ~that Queensland as a whole, and that is wha:t there is no point of order. The honourable concerns me here this evening. member for Peak Downs will resume his seat. Mr. Lester: I was repmted in "The Courier­ Mail" as having spoken in the debate on Mr. LESTER: Mr. Deputy Speaker-­ Matters of Public Interest on cheaper air fares in Australia. Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! If the M:r. R . .J. GIRBS: I rea1ise that the hon­ honoumble gentleman wants to help me ourable member has mentioned that in the while I am ruling against his point of order, past, but it is also significant 'that the hon­ I point out

the Bill and show total disrespect for you, up with roads and creek crossings that were Mr. Deputy Speaker. He has tried to deni­ not the best until they were improved or grate me as member for the area. He bridges were provided. They put their should­ should go to the nearest corner and hang ers to the wheel and pioneered the West. his head in shame. Those people, and others such as Sid Williams The tourist industry is a decentralised of Bush Pilots, have done a wonderful job. industry and should be considered as such. Only a few years ago the Central Highlands The fact that we are attracting only 4 per had only four Fokker Friendship services a cent of Australian ,tourists to Queensland week. Now we have 26 services a week out does not mean that we are doing badly. In of Emerald and other Central Highland towns Labor's day we were attracting only 1 per to Brisbane. We are getting a better service cent. We have to try harder to get a higher from the Central Highlands to Brisbane than percentage, and that is what we are doing people are getting from Rockhampton, tonight. Mackay and Townsville. Instead of grovelling, as Opposition mem­ Mr. Vaughan: With Fokker Friendships? bers are tonight, they would do far better rvir. LESTER: No. They are not Fokker by getting behind us and supporting us to Friendship services; they are Metro jet ser­ the hilt. Let us be positive in this Parlia­ vices. Bush Pilots are giving direct services ment about doing something worth while with smaller, faster aircraft. I backed this for the State to create more employment and jobs, and encouraging more people to service from the beginning. I knew I was on the right ,(rack. If the honourable mem­ come to Queensland to make tourism the ber was an Emerald voter, he would know fastest-growing industry in the State. Let us that everybody wants this service. People cash in on the cheaper air fares and make know that they can ,ring up and sometimes Queensland a better place to come to thus have the choice of five services in the one putting more money into everybody's day. LeMers from the weste11n areas were pocket rather than into ,the pockets of a few. written to the council, the chamber of com­ Mr. Frawley: Do you know that the merce and other bodies ,in the Central High­ travel agents in Caboolture have said that lands asking for support at the time of the you have done more for tourism in Queens­ proposed change. We all said that we were land than any other 10 members? very happy with what we had. Mr. LESTER: I thank the honourable We must trv to decentralise our tourist member. I accept his interjection because industry, remembering that the country areas it is indeed true. It is gratifying that some of Queensland play a very significant part members tonight are prepared to tell the in developing tourist facilities. Tourism truth about a person like me who is trying extends all over our State; not only up the to stkk up for his area. I.t is good that coast but also inland. We have a respons­ some people in this Parliament have a little ibility to make sure that this type of area gumption and are prepared to give credit is promoted. when it is due. I appreciate the honourable As I did not speak at the introductory member's comment. stage, I should like to suggest briefly that the Central Highlands has the new coal­ Time is getting late. I had comments to mines that are indeed a major tourist attrac­ make about adapting ,to change and so on tion in themselves. The draglines are the but I will pass over them and make refer: size of a three-storey building. We have ence to the proposed corporation. I know beautiful sunflowers, Fairbairn Dam, the that there will be certain difficulties in gemfields and many other attractions. implementing my proposition, but I would like to see on the corporation one member Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. from the western area of the State, two Hewitt): Order! The honourable member from the northern area, one from the Central will come back to the Bill. Queensland area and two from the southern area. In that way we would have a very Mr. LESTER: I thank you, Mr. Deputy balanced representation of our great State. Speaker, for bearing with me while I made There is more to Queensland than just the those very pertinent points. south-east corner. I am not saying that I Mr. Wright: Very unbearable. do not appreciate what is done in the south­ east 'Corner. If we did not get a lot of people Mr. LESTER: I hope that the honourable to this corner, and to the Gold and Sun­ member for Rockhampton does not think shine Coasts, we would not get them to go that talking about the Central Queensland to the Central Highlands, the Proserpine area area, part of which he represents, is unbear­ and elsewhere. able. We must give credit to people who have An Opposition Member: Make a point of put their shoulders to the wheel to develop clarification. Queensland. I think of people such as Jack Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The McCafferty. People like him should be honourable member cannot clarify it. recognised. They have taken the bull by the horns, as it were, and driven their coaches Mr. LESTER: I have made the few com­ into the Central Highlands and all over ments I desire to make. I know that Oppos­ Queensland. At times they have had to put ition members will never again use my name 4326 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

in vain in this Parliament and try to say Mr. PREST: I do apologise to the honour­ wrong things about me because I have proved able member for Salisbury. Nevertheless, I so conclusively that they did not know what do be11eve that when anyone else is they were talking about tonight. speaking-- Mr. PREST (Port Curtis) (10.52 p.m.): An Opposition Member interjected. I rise to support the A.L.P. spokesman on tourism. Because of what is contained in the Bill, the Government has cast a slur Mr. PREST: She is a female, and I cer­ on the Queensland Government Tourist tainly apologise .to her. Bureau. It is the Government's intention to do away with the bureau and set up this There ·is nothing in the Bill setting out corporation. wha.t fees will be paid to the membern of this corpomtion, so it looks as if they will One of the matters that concern me is be able to daim whate"~Cer they like as the membership of the board. We have heard mention of the people who could be expenses or loss of revenue that .they have on the board. The name of Mr. Keith incu!'red through being members of the Williams from the Gold Coast has been board. I think .this p110vision is very vague bandied about. It has been claimed that he and could lead to people being overpaid. is not interested in having a casino or poker machines in Queensland, but it is common Then we come to the function of the knowledge that he has approached the Prem­ corporat.ion. I cannot see anything in .this ier of New South Wales, Mr. Wran, and Bill that has not been covered by the Queens­ indicated his interest in building a casino land Government ~Oul'i>St Bureau in pa>St just over the New South Wales border. It years. I.t is very apparent to me that this has been mentioned that he will be one of Bill does nothing except change the name the members of the board and he is inter­ of the bureau. I think the public servants ested in taking tourists out of Queensland in the Tourist Bureau who have worked so into New South Wales. well over a long period are being treated very shabbily. As I said ·in the introductory Under the Bill, people must disclose their debate, people who have given a lifetime of pecuniary interests in tourism. It would be dedicated serv>ice to the Public Service wm very difficult to find for the board seven now, in their decHning years, be forced 1to people throughout Queensland who did not serve under people who have not previously have some pecuniary interest in the tourist been employed by ·the Government. I am industry. They might disclose that they are re.ferr.ing to the .people who will make up ,the only interested in hotels, motels, or a tourist attraction but, as members of the board, they board of the corporation. would support some aspects of tourism that would be complementary to some of their As the honourable member for Wolston interests. So that although they might not said, w.e are concerned about the clause gain directly, they would gain indirectly. relating to the dismissal of the general They will be on the board for only five manager of the corporation and •the ex officio years but, during that five years, they will member. Other members may be dismissed be doing their very best to further their by the Governor in Council, but ·the Bill interests. does not spell out who controls the general manager. These are some of the provis1ons Mr. Frawley: What about when you were about which we are concerned. The cor­ mayor? You robbed the Gladstone council poration w.ill be able to bring in consultants for years. and othe·r people to c.arry out re>Sear-ch .into Mr. PREST: I will accept that interjection. tour.ism in Queensland. If the assistance I have heard that the honourable member's being o·ffered to .thi>S corporation had been brother is doing quite well on the Redcliffe given to the Toul'i&t Bureau, I am quite Peninsula. He has pecuniary interests and ce-rtain it would not have been necessary for seems to foster them very well. us to discuss this Bill .tonight. Then we look at the fees and allowances It is obvious that over the years the Tourist to be paid .to members of the co!'poration. Bureau has been run on a shoe-str.ing budget. Mrs. Kyburz: Have you read the Bill? As the honourable member >for Cairns said, we do not know how this magical change Mr. PREST: Why don't you keep your of name will bring so much money into the trap shut? corporation that it will be able to be mn as a successful financial concern. As I said Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! previously, we beLieve that if the Government Government l\1embers: Shame! had paid the same 1attent.ion .to the Queens­ land Government Tourist Bureau in the pa>St Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! We are as it is pay.ing to .this corporation, this Bill going to have decorum in this Chamber. We would not have been necessary. Because we can do without asides !.ike tha.t. I cannot believe that the Queensland Government insist that .the honoura:ble member apologise Toul'ist Bureau should be ret•ained in the best •to the ho:nour.able member for Sa1isbury, but interests o.f Queen&land tourism, the Opposi­ on reflection he might choose to do so. tion ·will be oppooing this Bill. Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4327

Mr. WARNER (Toowoomba South) (10.59 A very limiting factor in the tourist p.m.): I rise to suppor.t the Bill. I did not industry, in my opinion, is the penalty­ have the opportunity to speak in the intro­ rate system. In saying that, I know that I ductory debate, but owing to the late hour will draw "ohs" from the Opposition, but I I will make only a few brief points. I hope am sure that it is a fact. The new corpor­ you ,will aHow me, M:r. Deputy Speaker, to ation will have to cope with this and realise make a few parochial remarks. that there is a lack of recognition by the unions that the tourist industry needs differ­ An Opposition Member: ,Is that a plea? ent hours to promote the industry properly. Mr. WARNER: I said "I hope". Mr. Davis: Can you produce some facts? There is no doubt in my mind that tourism Mr. WARNER: Yes, I can. in this State has been lagging very badly. It is quite evident to me and to many At present, penalty rates are holding other people connected with tourism in back progress in the tourist industry. Many Queensland that at present the tourist workers in the industry recognise this and industry is not progressing as it should. see nothing wrong with working on Saturday It has been in the doldrums for some time. and Sundays if they are given time off to I doubt whether there would be many mem­ compensate for working on a week-end. bers, except perhaps the Opposition members, If I may, I shall mention the rural who would say that that was not the present industry, which has been subject to this state of the tourist industry in Queensland. overtime system for some years now. One This is not entirely the fault of the Queens­ only has to work in ·the West to know that, land Government Tourist Bureau. I do not because of penalty rates, both stock and believe that it has been given the charter or the success of many properties have been the money .to proceed as it should proceed. put in jeopardy. Because of penalty rates, The powers have not been given to it, no longer can men muster sheep or cattle in and it has been restricted. western areas in the cool of the evening Be that as it may, I believe it [s high or the morning so that the sheep or cattle time that this State recognised the vast and the men do not get distressed. No potential of a properly organised tourist longer can one ask an employee to work on industry. The industry should organise itself Sunday and muster sheep--unless, of course, to take advantage of what we surely have in one pays triple .time or penalty rates-so plenty. I am sure that there are very that members of another union can shear few members of this House who do not them on Mondays. I believe that is is a know to what I refer. I refer to the miles senseless situation, to say the least. and miles of coastline. To be successful, the tounism ~ndustry has I am sure that the attroctions in this to run on the basis of a seven-day week if State are attractions of the type that people we are to obtain a steady flo,w of ·tourists from overseas want to see. When those to Queensland. The 'sooner this is recog­ people return to their home countries, they nised, the better. It certainly works in other should be able to say, "You should go to countries and is not detrimental to -the Queensland". But--and it is a big "but"­ employees concerned. there are many ways to get to the tourist 1What does seem unfortunate 'is that tou:uism areas in Queensland, and they are all expen­ attracts liti!Ie attention from professional sive. Also, the roads are very bad. educators, and this is hard to believe cin this In my opinion, tourism in Queensland must day and age because ,tour,ism is the larges:t be encouraged in a business-like manner, and of world 'tmdes. Although I have said that I believe that it will be the role of the new tourism could produce huge revenue fo:r the corporation to do that. One can point to Sta~e, I would also like to sound a note of many factors that need changing. There warning that unless approached ~with a proper is no doubt that the members of the cor­ at.titude by government, the effect of tourism poration will have to recognise that Queens­ on env.ironment can be disastrous. Of course, land roads are a detrimental factor in pro­ guarding against this must be one of the moting tourism. Of course, that has been principal roles of the new corporation. mentioned many times. Also, an enormous Maiily 'Sillall coull!tries have had to turn to cost is involved in flying from one point to touni.sm for their very existence, and overseas another point in Queensland, and especially from interstate. I believe that if they are companies have been invhed to build facilities given the right information about the roads, so that high-c1ass accommodation is available. many thousands of tourists will never be Unfortunately, in many cases this •type of pro­ deterred from travelling throughout Queens­ motion has destroyed the environment tha~t land. As long as they know what is ahead of was the attmction in -the first instance. This, them, they will take off at the drop of a hat of aourse, ·is to be deploJ)ed. Developers who and put up with rough conditions. What see only the doLLar !lign and who do not tourists do not like is a lack of information protect the environmeillt must, I believe, be or wrong information. I am sure that the discouraged. new corporation will recognise the import­ I know this w;illi] bring another "Oh!" from ance of providing a factual travel information honourable membens opposite. The Iwasaki service. project at Yeppoon has been criticised m 4328 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

this respect, simply because the conservation­ must be considered by the Minister when he ists and the Opposition believe H1at we is appointing the members of the new cou1d be f,aced wi1th a problem of an enV!iron­ corporation. mental nature. I do not believe that they understand what "of 1an env1ronmenta1 nat­ I am aware that the Minister recognises ure" means. The Iwasaki project will, 'I the impor.tance of representation from not believe, be unique in this regard, because only my area and the Gold Coast but the it not only protects but enhances ,the environ­ northern part of the State as well. I suggest men~ and promotes the type of tourist that the Minister, in framing the Bill, has attraction that this State needs. One has taken that into consideration. I do not think only to see what Iwasaki has done in Japan for one moment that he will give representa­ and else,where to vedfy that-and I have tion only to the Gold Coast, as has been seen it-and I do not doubt :for one moment thaJt soon Australia WJill have at Y eppoon suggested tonight. I commend the Bill. one of the greatest tour~st at.tractions in the world. Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister for Maritime Services and Tourism) (11.11 Any promotion must certainly be defined p.m.), in reply: Many contributions have properly and long-term development pm­ been made to the debate this evening, as rooted. 'Dhe new corporation will have this there were at the introductory stage. Most power, and I 1think that those who are now of them were repetition of speeches made concerned about the potential danger to that unique wonder the Great Barrier Reef and at the introductory stage and all I should similar attractions will bwathe a great sigh do in reply is repeat my second-reading speech. of relief when 'they see the provisions of the It gives the answer to every matter that was Bill. raised this evening. The tourist indust['y must define :its objec­ Many members used this occasion to sug­ tives clearly and function in a responsible gest that the membership of the corporation way to promote legitimate profit wi,thout will consist of certain personnel. I can assure destroying non-renewable resources, and to them that at this stage no names have been train staff accordingly. I believe ,that this considered for membership of the corpor­ is the only pmotical solut1ion in ,the long .run. ation. The State will be adequately repre­ The death of the Darling Downs Tourist sented, as will all sections of the tourist Association last year was a clear oase of an indw,try. association wi,th little or no help from the Government as to how it should go about its Concern about membership of the corpor­ business, both financially and otherwise. Af,ter ation seemed to be the major topic for dis­ years of work by people \vho .tried to promote cussion during the debate. The members for one of ,the most beaut,iful areas in this Mackay and Cairns in particular expressed country, their 'initiative now ,is to no avail. the fear that the corporation would not be adequately representative at all. Such an I believe that it is important ,that new attitude underlines ~the parochial attitudes that regional tourist bodies should be set up as have hampered the growth of tourism in soon as pO&Sible and (,hat initia1tives are Queensland for many years. All I can say is taken by responsible local authorit.ies to jo,in that surelv the location where a man chooses in and suppO['t such regional bodies so that to make -his home is no indication of his they can take advantage of .the Government's worth as a representative or an adviser. intention through rthis Bill to provide for Indeed, those members who have been so financial aid and guidance that is paramount vocal in this regard are living proof of the in promoting the type of ,tour.ism that eaoh fact that location is no guarantee of worth. area requires. There is no doubt ·that each Question-That the Bill be now read a area will have different potent,~al and different second time (Mr. Hedges's motion)-put; requirements. It is equally impor,tant that and the House divided- such regional bodies have the backing of the Government. AYES, 39 The new corporation must do away with the Akers Kybur;.; Armstrong Lane old concept of granting minimum funds to Austin Lee promotional bodies. In the past, this type Bertoni Lester Bishop Liekiss of funding has been detrimental because it Booth Lockwood has kept each body at poverty level. What Camm McKechnie is needed is a watertight approach by Gov­ Doumany Miller ernment to allow them to survive and prosper. Edwards M tiller Elliott Powell Frawley Row Toowoomba-if I might be parochial­ Gibbs, I. J, Scassola will increase its facilities for outdoor leisure Goleby Simpson and recreation by 25 per cent 'this year. Good Gunn Sullivan Gygar Warner roads and the professional attitude adopted Hinze White by such people as John Osborn, who heads Hodges the Toowoomba Tourist Association, are Hooper, M. D. Innes Tellers: largely responsible for exploiting in a respon­ Kaus Ahern sible way that glorious city. Men of his type Knox Bourke Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4329

acquire land. It seems to me that there is a NoEs, 21 conflict there and I would like some explana­ Burns Shaw tion. Casey Underwood Fouras Vaughan Gibbs, R. J. Warburton Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister Hansen Wilson for Maritime Services and Tourism) (I 1.28 Hooper, K. J. Wright Jones Yewdale p.m.): There is no conflict at all. Clause 6 Kruger provides that after the corporation has been Mackenroth Milliner Tellers: formed- Prest D'Arcy Scott Davis " ... 'The Queensland Tourist and Travel Corporation' which, by that name and PAIRS: style, shall have a common seal, and shall Wharton B!ake be capable in law of suing and being sued Tenni Houston in its corporate name and of acquiring, Resolved in the affirmative. holding and disposing of land and other property, of granting and taking leases of COMMITTEE land and other property, and of doing and suffering all such other acts and things as (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) bodies corporate may in law do and Clauses I and 2, as read, agreed to. suffer." Clause 3-Savings-transitional- It is a body corporate. Mr. .TONES (Cairns) (11.25 p.m.): Sub­ Mr. JONES (Cairns) (11.29 p.m.): It seems clause 3 provides- to be a complete contradiction that land is "On ~nd f~om the appointed day, all excluded from the hand-over, yet the cor­ assets (mcludmg furniture, fittings and poration is to be given the power at a later other Crown property but excluding land) date to acquire and dispose of land. On the used by the Department of Tourism with one hand, the Minister says that because the exception of such assets as the Minister the land is a fixed asset and belongs to the for Works and Housing determines (if Crown it will not be handed over, yet on any) shall be assigned to and taken over the other hand he says that the corporation by the Corporation." can acquire and dispose of land after it is formed. Why could not the land be taken All books and records as the Minister deter­ over in the first instance? The Bill seems mines shall be handed over but the land to me to be contradictory in its approach. will not. Will the Minister 'explain to the The corporation is to be given power to take Committee the significance of that exclusion? leases of land, yet clause 3 provides that all assets are to be taken over except the Ho;•. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister land. I can see no rhyme or reason in the for Maritime Services and Tourism) (I 1.26 conflict between clauses 3 and 6. p.m.): All I can say is that the land is Crown land and all we are taking over is the move­ Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minis­ able assets, the office furniture and so on ter for Maritime Services and Tourism) that belongs to the tourist bureau. We are (11.30 p.m.): They are not in conflict at all. not handing over Crown land. It just enables the corporation, if it so desires, at any time with ministerial approval Clause 3, as read, agreed to. and with the approval of the Executive to Clauses 4 and 5, as read, agreed to. acquire land, if necessary. A period of 18 months or two years could elapse without Clause 6---Constitution of Corporation- there being the necessity to acquire land at all. The taking over of the fixed assets at Mr. .TONES (Cairns) (I 1.27 p.m.): There this stage, at the beginning of the corpora­ seems to b~ a conflict of ideas in determining tion, is a totally different matter. The the pr_o~·Isions ?f _this Bill. Accepting what corporation could be allowed to buy land in the Mm1ster smd m explanation of clause 3, the future, as I just stated, under clause 6, we now see that the Queensland Tourist but that would be only if the submission was and Travel Corporation shall be capable in for some particular purpose and only after !aw of suing, etc., and shall be capable the necessary approval had been given. The m 1ts _corP?rate name of acquiring, holding corporation cannot just go ahead and buy and d1sposmg of land and other property. land, buildings and other assets willy-nilly. On the o!le hand, the Minister is saying that It is to be controlled. Maybe a period of the land Is excluded from being handed over 18 months, two years or three years will to the corporation, and on the other he is elapse before any land is purchased. But saying that the funds of the corporation can provision has been made for the corporation be used to acquire land. The Bill states that to acquire land and leases if it is so desired the utilisation of funds for the promotion of for the promotion of the tourist industry. tourism shall be paramount, yet he says here Clause 6, as read, agreed to. that the corporation will be allowed to build edifices, probably like the T.A.B., and Clause 7-Members of Corporation- 433G Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (11.31 p.m.): I hope that the comments made by me and In my speech at the introductory stage, I by other members about buying one's way expressed concern about the membership of onto the corporation will be heeded by this the corporation. I asked the Minister for Government. I can assure the Minister an assurance that in fact the members of that I will be watching very carefully to the corporation would be drawn from all over the State. I assure the Committee that see the attributes of the people who are I have his categorical assurance that that appointed to the corporation. One would will be so; that there will be a representative hope that people who are pushing their own from North Queensland, from the North­ barrows will not be the only ones appointed west, from the Far West and so on. He will to the corporation. I believe that that will not be so much an elected representative be a very difficult matter to overcome. One but if someone is available-- ' would hope that consideration will also be given to people who have a knowledge of A Government Member interjected. the whole State, of the tourist industry, of Mrs. KYBURZ: I wasn't thinking quite the transport industry, and of what people of Toowoomba. But if there is available a want. We do not want people who will person who has well known entrepreneural thrust upon people f,rom the southern States abilities, he will be appointed. things that they certainly do not want. There has been a lot of public discussion I just make those comments to let the recently about a particular party who is said Minister know that we will be watching to have bought his way into the corporation. very carefully the people who are appointed Of course, we will never know whether that to the corporation. is the case unless we happen to see the books of the Bjelke-Petersen Foundation, Mr• .JONES (Cairns) (11.35 p.m.): This is which I very much doubt I will ever see one of the most important clauses in the in my lifetime. However, it is to be hoped Bill, because the seven members of the that, because of the odium attached to that corporation will be running the tourist happening, that person will not in fact be industry and performing the functions now considered. I sincerely hope that that will performed by the Department of Tourism be so. There are other people with similar and the Queensland Government Tourist attributes, who come from other parts of the Bureau. In fact, it is the kernel of the Bill, State. because these people will be making decisions on the tourist industry while its provisions In my speech at the introductory stage, are in operation. I expressed the opinion that the Gold Coast has had the tourist industry sewn up for too The point was made that the advisory long, and that it is incumbent upon this committee that was appointed-we are not Assembly and the Minister to ensure that quite sure, Mr. Gunn, how it was appointed, people from other areas are appointed to the but it was appointed in a rather mysterious corporation. These other areas should be way to advise the Minister on tourist matters represented just as fully. The Gold Coast -was told that it was to be the nucleus of has had its way on every board and commis­ the statutory body to be set up as a result of sion th<:

I have been accused by the honourable Parliament will leave the matter to the member for Surfers Paradise of misrepre­ Governor in Council; it is not making any senting his position on the Gold Coast. decision about the method of election. It's However, he would not tell me the amount a pity that the Minister for Primary Industries of the overdraft of the Gold Coast Visitors is not with us. He could confirm the remarks Bureau while Lee Black and Keith Williams made by my leader in relation to boards in held their positions, how they left that body, primary industries, such as the Queensland or their present odour with the accommoda­ Cane Growers' Council, the Wheat Board tion owners. and so on. Are they incompetent because their members are elected by people in the The honourable member said later that I industry? Is there anything wrong with was correct in my comments about the people who are democratically elected by tourist corporation in Victoria, because mem­ those in their industrv? Would there be bers of the Minister's committee had been anything wrong with this corporat•ion if it down there investigating. had on it the Director of the Queensland The honourable member for Isis said that I Government Tourist Bureau or other com­ am not conversant with the Bill. We will go petent officers in the bureaux? The director through the clauses, Mr. Gunn, and show is presently in the lobby. I do not wish to him that the Opposition has read the Bill, embarrass him, but it is obvious that he and we will debate it fully, as it ought to should have been on the advisory committee. be debated. What I want to know-and my Similarly, ·the employees who would be question was not answered-is what criterion affected and the State Service Union should was used in making the appointments to the have been represented on the committee. tourist advisory committee, which in effect Clause 7 is probably the most important will become the tourist corporation, and in clause. It should have been looked at more appointing members to the corporation-if closely. The Opposition indicates that it is they have not been pre-selected. against the whole principle of this legislation. We know, Mr. Gunn, that a subsequent All I am doing is warning members that it clause gives the Minister the right to sack is fraught with danger and open to abuse. them, but it should be very clear-and I Mrs. Kybmz: You were not opposed to point this out to honourable members-that it at the introductory stage. the permanent head of the department will be on the board, but will not be chairman, Mr. JONES: I had not read the Bill. I and that six members will be appointed by the Governor in Council, as recommended like to look at Bills before I make any by the Minister. That does not always occur recommendations to my caucus and fellow in C1l!bine.t, but that is the way it is supposed members. to be. Later a general manager will be Mrs. Kyburz: You were obviously in favour appointed under the provisions of this clause, of it. and I have already expressed my concern about who that general manager will be, Mr. JONES: The honourable member for particularly in view of the references coming Salisbury should read my speech at the intro­ to me about the gentleman who was rushing ductory stage. If she has not got a copy of round in a green coat at the introductory it, I will make one available to her. If she stage and in a red coat at Mackay. reads it, she will see that I expressed grave Apparently he changes his coat with his doubts about the principles contained in the politics. He is on the right side to be Bill. I indicated quite clearly, as did other appointed, and he has the same political Opposition members, that we were against qualifications as Williams and the other the Bill at that stage. The member for fellow. Salisbury and the member for Isis suggested Mr. Austin: Have you any recommenda­ that I did not read the Bill. I suggest they tions to make? read my speech to gain an indication of our attitude. Mr. JONES: There are many competent Queenslanders in the tourism area who Mr. POWELL (Isis) (11.44 p.m.): The should be considered. Without giving names member for Cairns kied to draw an analogy -there is the vice-chairman of the Australian between the corporation and the Queemland Tourist Commission and there are right Cane Growers' Council. That is ridiculous. throughout Queensland people who are quite The number of growers in the cane industry competent to be members of the boa,rd and is limited by law. I hope that the honour­ do not subscribe to any political party. They able member is not suggesting that such a are not surrounded by that aura of doubt. limitation should be imposed within the tour­ The; do not buy their knighthoods, nor do ist industry, which is a growth industry. thev buv positions on authorities by making To try to draw such an analogy is absolutely ~25-,000 · donations to the Bjelke-Petersen ridiculous and shows the way in which the Foundation or, as someone referred to it Opposition is clutching at straws in it-; in an unparliamentary manner, the P.remier's opposition to the Bill. It just cannot be slush fund. I am sure that other honourable done that way. Any attempt to compRre members share the doubts that I have a primary industry board with the corpora­ expressed. tion is indeed stupid. 4332 Queensland Tourist and [26 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

Mr. BISHOP (Sul1f,ers PM.adise) (11.46 I regret thwt some people seem to think p.m.): The question at issue is the getting that the bringing of a tourist ,to the Gold of the six hest and most caJpable poople in Co3l:lt or, say, to Cairns does not benefit Queensland on ,the corporatioo. It lis entirely the re:;t of QueensLand. We mus.t appreciate irrelevant whether .they all come from that pamchial attitudes do not help •the Cai,rns, the Go,ld Coast, lipswich or Long­ Queensland tourist industry. I am sure thaJt, reach. I emphasise that the important thing like me, the honoumble member for Salis­ is to get the six be:;t people to serve the bury suppor:ts the appointment of the very corpomtion and ,the industry. best people :to ,the tourist corporation. Indee-d if ]t does not ooour, the corpom,tion will Mr. Lane: Wha:t about Kcingaroy? not succeed. So I agree with the honourable member for Cairns. But I am sometimes Mr. BISHOP: Or Kingaroy, for ,that ashamed when I hear Opposition members I matter. am sure the Premier will appreci­ smearing people for no reason other ~than ;c,te tha1. to create a point. I support clause 7. The honourable member fa;r Cairns referred once more to the Accommodat,ion Owners' JVIr. JONES (Cairns) (11.50 p.m.): My point Association. I am not quite sme what he is that the board and its composition will \\ ;1s referr.ing to but I believe thM ,j,t ,is very be the most important aspect of the Bill to important for me, as the I1epresentative of the tourist industry. The character of those an mea on 1he Gold Coast, to put the record members ought to be beyond reproach and straight. So fM as I know, neither Mr. they should have ability. Williams nor Mr. Black has anything to do Mr. Lee Black is presently on the advisory with ,the Accommodation Owne:rn' Associa­ committee. We know how and why the com­ tion. However, Mr. Black is an aocom­ mittee was selected. It seems ,that member­ modation owner and may be a member. To ship of that committee is the first step to my knowledge he is not on the board of membership of the board. That is our only the Accommodation Owners' Association. guide-line. It is probable that the committee was selected in the same way as the corpor­ For the information of the honou!'able ation board will be selected. member for Cairns, I point out that the Accommodat]on Ownem' A:>sooiauion is a Mr. Black is a past president of the very long-standing and high1y respected Accommodation Owners' Association. My association in 'tourism in Queensland. I information is that he left that position in think it first sta11ted about 20 years .ago. Its a pretty sad way and ,that he was bad news. membershbp compnises owners of accommoda­ I consider that ~it is my duty to bring that tion houses that comply with standards set information before this Committee so that the by the owners themselves. They must Minister and the honourable member for comply w,ith them. Any,body who stays at Surfers Paradise can ensure that anything accornmod111tion owned by a member knows of that nature is investigated before people that the highest standards of accommodation are appointed to a position that will be of are oomp1ied WDth. It is a via;ble organisa­ such importance to the tourist industry. tion, which produces each year, at a cost of about $15,000 to $20,000, a colour broch­ The honourable member for Wolston men­ ure ,that is second to none in Au:;tralia. It tioned another member of the advisory com­ is used by travel agents of all types through­ mittee who may be appointed to the board. out Australia and ovenseas. If that allegation has any basis, which it oDviously has because it was reported in the I repeat that I am not quite sure what Press, it ought to be investigated before any­ the honourable member was gettmg at con­ body is appointed. Any number of people cerning th111t assooiation, unless he was con­ throughout Queensland have the competence, tinuing the Opposition's usual smear taotics. ability and experience to serve on this board. When Opposition members have no case to put, they degeneraJte to smeaning and deni­ Mr. Powcll interjected. grating ,the activities of other people. Mr. JONES: He is on the advisory com­ I hope that the honourable member for mittee. The honourable member accused me Salisbury will appreoiate ilit when I say ~that of not reading the Bill and he does not she made what I conc<;ider wer,e unneces:;ary know anything about the advisory committee. and cynioal remarks about the Gold Coast. How ignorant is he? The composition of the I am sure she knows thwt the GoLd Coast board is most important. Its personnel will is the second largest city in Queensland. I be running the tourist industry. am sure she appreciates that 50 per cent of The last occa~ion I spoke to representa­ tounism in QueensLand in generated in the tives was when they were gathered by the Gold Coa<>t area. I am also sure that she Queensland Government Tourist Bureau­ appre'Ciates that :if Aust~alia's No. 1 holiday for the information of the honourable mem­ akay. It was just as it would be to the disadvantage of the organised by the Tourist Bureau and the Gold Coast if the Great Barrier Reef were Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority. to slide from the Austm1ian coastline. They arranged the seminar in Mackay. I Queensland Tourist and [26 & 27 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4333 was invited to attend because I was the Clause 7, as read, agreed to. Opposition spokesman. Apparently there are no poLitics in that organisation. Clauses 8 and 9, as read, agreed to. Mr. Hodges: It is not in clause 7 at all. Clause 10-Vacating member's office- It is the composition of the commiHee. Mr. .JONES (Cairns) (11.57 p.m.): I do Mr. JONES: I am speaking of the com­ not cast any aspersions on the Minister's position of the corporation or the board. integrity, but clause 10 (3) (b) gives the All I am saying is that the membership of Minister the right to issue a notice of the committee gives an indication of 'the removal to a member of the board, whether membership of the board. No cognisance was he has been appointed only for the first given to ,the desires of the representatives of five-year term or a subsequent three-year the industrv. They were not asked to nom­ term. That clause is fraught with danger and inate repre-sentatives; they were selected at is open to abuse, particularly if a member nmdnm. I ask the Minister not to do that does not toe the line and agree with the in setting up the corpor.ttion to handle the Minister's point of view at all times. It touri,,t industry in Queensland. is obvious that that clause could very quickly lead to the board's becoming a tame cat I am only repeating what the people in if the members know that the Minister the tourist industry are saying. They want has the power to remove them with a flick a representative board, and if possible they of his wrist. I do not cast any aspersions want. at least some members elected, although on the present Minister, but this will be the the Bill does not provide for that. They law long after the Minister has left office certainly do not want any people appointed and a Minister from any political party at on a party-political basis. any time will still have the right to sack any member of the corporation if he deems Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister fit. There is no requirement for a reference for Maritime Services and Tourism) (11.55 to the Governor in Council or anyone else; p.m.): There are just one or two points it is purely the prerogative of the Minister. to which I would like to reply. Firstly, I take very strong objection to one remark Mr. R. J. Gihhs: For example, you would made by the honourable member for Salis­ not be concerned if a Minister like Mr. bury. Clause 7 (1) (b) refers to six persons Porter was in charge! appointed by the Governor in Council on the recommendation of the Minister. There Mr. JONES: There are a few Ministers is no way in the world that I will be sub­ jected to pressure from anybody attempting on that side of the Chamber, and even some to buy his way onto this corporation. would-be Ministers on this side of the That is a reflection on my integrity, and if Chamber, who would certainly exercise that I had felt like it I would have asked the right very quickly. If I were the Minister and honourable member to withdraw that state­ some of those members of the advisory com­ ment. mittee were on the board, I would utilise that The honourable member for Cairns spoke power very quickly indeed. I do not about the advisory committee. There is no think that subclause should be included in advisory committee now. Its job finished the Bill. As I have said previously, and weeks ago, and there is no guarantee that I am being consistent, if the members of because people were members of the advisory the board were elected, there would be no committee they will be appointed to the need for that subclause. corporation. In my brief remarks at the end of the second-reading debate, I said that the State will be adequately represented. [Friday, 27 April 1979] There will be representatives from the north­ ern, central and southern parts of the Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister State. I can say no more than that at for Maritime Services and Tourism) (12 this stage because the names I receive will midnight): If the honourable member would have to go to the Governor in Council. read the Bill, he would see that clause 10 (2) provides that the Governor in Council, not Mr. Yewdale: Mr. Bishop wants them all the Minister, has the power to dismiss. The from the Gold Coast. Minister only gives notice of such a dismissal.

Mr. HODGES: He does not, but I agree Mr. JONES (Cairns) (12.1 a.m.): The with his sentiments that if the six men Minister just told me that the Governor in were from the Gold Coast it would not Council would accept whatever he recom­ matter. They could all come from Bandy­ mended and that no-one would influence waHop-I do not give a damn-provided his decision one way or the other. It comes they are capable of doing the job. That back to the same thing: If the Minister is all that is required. Members seem to issues the notice, according to his own words, think that where a man comes from gives the Governor in Council will endorse it. some indication of his worth, but the hon­ ourable member for Cairns has once again Clause 10, as read, agreed to. shown that he is liYing proof that location is no guarantee of worth. Clause 11, as read, agreed to. 4334 Queensland Tourist and [26 & 27 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

Clause 12-Fees and allowances of mem­ Clauses 30 to 39, both inclusive, as read, bers- agreed to. Mr. .JONES (Cairns) (12.2 a.m.): Clause 40-Certain revenue to be applied Apparently the fees and allowances of mem­ towards promotions- bers will be determined by the Governor in Council. We will not be informed about Mr. LANE (Merthyr) (12.6 a.m.): My them. No set amount is provided. I think comments will be brief. I just wish to draw that the Bill should be more specific and the attention of the corporation, when it is should set down in more detail what the formed, to the importance of engaging in fees and allowances will be, how they wiii some overseas travel arrangements. be paid and when they will be paid. There I said at the introductory stage that I should be some maximum figure. I do not thought it would be of great benefit to believe that we should give everyone an Queensland if the corporation, together with open cheque. the Department of Commercial and Indus­ trial Development, opened a trade office in The clause also refers to "such expenses Singapore to sell Queensland travel in South as are necessarily incurred by him in the East Asia. From visits that I have made to discharge of his duties as a member and as that region, I know that there are a number the Corporation approves". We heard the of wealthy businessmen in that area, par­ Minister say that these members, who will ticularly Chinese businessmen, who would have an intimate knowledge of the tourist welcome an opportunity of visiting this industry, will be present at conferences and country. There is nothing like having one's board meetings around the world, and that own salesman in the field or on the road, their knowledge and expertise will enable and unless Queensland has someone over them to use the information gained to pro­ there deliberately encouraging tourists from mote the tourist industry in Queensland. South East Asia to come here on business That is an open-ended deal which ought to trips that have a holiday component in be considered. That is another aspect of the them, it will lose a good deal of revenue. Bill that the Opposition sees as being wrong and opposes in toto. I hope that the corporation will seek I.A.T.A. status as soon as it is set up, so Clause 12, as read, agreed to. that it can trade in both directions and so Clauses 13 to 28, both inclusive, as read, that there is a balance of payments arrange­ agreed to. ment that is satisfactory to countries over­ seas. It is a rule in business that one has Clause 29-Disclosure of interest in con­ to outlay something in order to get a profit, tracts- and people will not come here from overseas if we try to make it a one-way street. The Mr. JONES (Cairns) (12.3 a.m.): During corporation must have the will to sell the course of the debate, this clause has been overseas travel-I note that preceding thrown up to us as the one that will keep clauses give it that capacity-and I hope all the members of the corporation honest; that it will have the will to do so in a verv that they will have to disclose their pecuniary broadminded way. - interests in contracts. Why only in relation Of course, the clause now under discussion to contracts? Any works in an area adjacent refers to the applying of commissions towards to a member's operation could give him an promotions, and commissions from travel of indirect interest in those works. I think that this type can be applied to promotions in the Minister should look at that matter. other parts of the world. I urge the corpora­ Complimentary attractions in an area could tion to take a broad view of its responsibi­ provide a draw-card to a corporation mem­ lities. I urge it to engage in overseas trade­ ber's own attraction. A member could give exporting Australian tourism, as it were­ the imprimatur to an attraction in his area. and, as well, to adopt some of the very Before long, there could be a number of parochial suggestions relative to local tourism attractions in close proximity to his opera­ that have been made in this debate. tion. The entrepreneurs on the corporation could wangle affairs so that a contract Clause 40, as read, agreed to. would not involve a direct pecuniary interest; but they could none the less benefit greatly Clauses 41 to 49, both inclusive, as read, from it. agreed to. I see a danger in that clause. I do not Clause 50-Advances and guarantees- think it is explicit enough. We should have spelt out quite clearly what a pecuniary Mr. JONES (Cairns) (12.9 a.m.): The interest is. My advice to the Minister is not operative words are "financial assistance may to appoint operators and entrepreneurs in be given to a person who is concerned in specific fields. Rather, he should appoint promoting a tourist or travel project". The people who have a general interest in promot­ corporation will make advances towards ing tourism in Queensland, not an interest in fostering and assisting the development of promoting a particular attraction. the tourist industry, and financial assistance may be given to a person who is concerned Clause 29, as read, agreed to. with promoting that industry. Queensland Tourist and [26 & 27 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill 4335

Earlier there was talk of the functions, My concern relates .to who shall guarantee powers and duties of the corporation. The the comme,rcial viability of .an opemtion Opposition says that that responsibility will before a loan is made. I realrise that is be given to six operators who are in com­ precisely 'the reason for the corporation. One petition with others in the industry and that must be concerned to see that comme:wial they would be able to kill any competitor. viability is assured and rth:at a non-viable This is the clause that could be used by them operation is nort given a loan merely .to keep to kill any competitor. As members of the it going. I 'am concerned to see that sec­ corporation, they could be very divisive and tional interests are no•t a.ided and abetted make sure that they get the best advantage. under subdause (2). To conduct the pwceedings and business I have nortked recent Press reports con­ of rthe corponll!!li:on, a quorum of four mem­ cerning houses in jeorpardy ·at Palm Bell!ch, bers is requtired. That moons that on any on the Gold Coast. In deference .to my issue rthe vote could be two for and two colleague from 1tha1 area, I am sorry to have against. One of .the .two w.iil be the chair­ to come back to it. I realise tha•t some man, who has a cast.ing vote. In effect, two local author~t·ies w.i!l say that, because of persons, one of whom has the casting vote, their t.ourisrt potentiaJ, ,the business •they could decide an •issue involving large amounts undertake or the money 'thaJt they sup­ of money. So they will have a gooo deal posedly generate in the community, they of pOIWer. As I say, the board must consist ought .to receive financial help from the of men of integrity. If it has on i•t shysters corpomt.ion. I believe attempts will probably and shon.kies, all so~ts of problems v.-1ill arise. be made by some residents of P.alm Beach to borrow huge sums of money ·to shore The other .point I make is that the board up their beach fronts tha·t have been eroded. is not r.estr.icted to •the promotional role. Thll!l It behoves this Governmoot to look at is the most impoJ)tant component of the resumpt.ions in .the area. I hope such tourist industry and the oo~omtion will be sectional rinterests wiJI not use this as an able to give money ,to people for the pro­ excuse rto gain an advance or guarantee. I mol'ion of rthe tounist mdustry or for travel am pleased to see .that under subc1ause (2) projects and so on. It can also make an ad>"ance or guarantee shaH not be made advances by way of }oons and hand out or given unless and until •the Governor ~n money for things that it wants to see done. Council approves thereof. The respornsiblility for this spending lies I realise that what the honourable mem­ dill'ectly with the people Dn the board. We ber for Cairns said is true. While the Minis­ see a danger in this provision if it is not ter in charge of the Bill may have integrity­ implemented correctly. and I have assured the Committee that that wm local authorities come under these is so-he will not always be the Minister. provisions? It has always been their cry It is of major importance that this should that .there is never enough money. They go to the Governor in Council for approval. are required to install .tou.r:is·t flithin any other clause. I important assistance that can be given to a doubt wherther the co11poration w.iU have suf­ tourist entrepreneur is some form of finan­ ficient money to be able to hand it out to cial assistance. The main difficulty faced local authorities, but •if a wor.thwhile project by people today is getting capital to develop is under.taken by a local authorirty will the a project. That is well known to all of us. oor:pora.tion hav.e the power to make money available 1to £t? I know that any payments At the introductory stage I made a point have to be approved by the Governor in concerning the need to allow local authorit­ Counail. HOIWever, the board will be able ies to participate. When dealing with clause to hand over money on 1he vote, ll!S I have ·14, the M·inister went to some length to said, of only .two members of •the board. explain the terms of reference and the There is a danger inherent in tha,t aspect. functions, which are set out fully. I applaud those functions. They are very broad. In 1\lrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (12.13 a.m.): I, paragraph (h) reference is made to local too, am woHied ll!bout ·this clause. I do authorit,ies and Government departments, hope the Minister wHl ll!llow me to criticise but no reference is made to local authorities i•t and not take umbrage a.t the fact that being applicants for assistance. I •am doing so. My cr~tici.'lm is cer,t.arinly In referring to Part IV-"Financial Assis­ not of a personal nature. When one is tance to Promoters of Projects", I should speaking to clauses, one is not criticising a like the Minister to explain whether in fact Minis•ter pefflonally. I do =t cr]tioise the a local authority or any semi-governmental integvi•ty of this Minister, nor would I cr~tri­ body can be the promoter of a project. I cise the integriJty of any other Minister­ reiterate my previous point that local author­ unless, perhwps, he provoked me deliberately. ities embarking on projects as income-earn­ I apologise 1o the Minister-which is prob­ ing ventures could well need assistance. As ably what he wanted, anyway-if he inferred tourist developments are prime income earn­ thll!t I was making any comment on his ers, it seems to me-and I am sure other integrity. Never have I personally criticised country and provincial members will agree­ the Minister. that this could be a golden opportunity to 4336 Queensland Tourist and [26 & 27 APRIL 1979] Travel Corporation Bill

get additional finance. However, nothing in will be sadly disappointed. Governments in clauses 50, 51 and 52, or in fact in any part the future might look to t!o!.is clause as a of the Bill, refers specifically to local authori­ way to feed through that money by way of ties. I would counsel the Minister to give low-interest loans. a local authority the same right as any other promoter, applicant or entrepreneur to Although both the Federal and State become involved in such a venture. The Governments failed miserably in this regard Minister might explain that position when for a long time, it must be remembered that replying to other members. if the facilities are not updated, the operator will fail and the indusbrv will suffer. We Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minis­ would then have suootandard accommoda­ ter for Maritime Services and Tourism) tion because they could not overcome depre­ (12.17 a.m.): The local authorities are ciation of their buildings. It goe> without unlikely to avail themselves of this oppor­ saying that there must be an influx of fund­ tunity because their borrowings are already ing. It could be done through thi' clause. guaranteed by the State under normal bor­ Whether it will happen, I very much doubt. rowing arrangements for their total annual borrowing programmes. I cannot see why The final report of the House of Repre­ .they would want to come under this because sentatives Select Committe on Tourism pub­ the borrowing programme would have to be lished in October 1978 and relea~ed in the approved by the Treasury. Federal House on 26 October 1978, the Tourist Industry Appraisal and Recommenda­ Mr. Wright: Would you be prepared to tion of the North Queensland Region of look into that? A.N.T.A. in July 1971, the Great Barrier Reef Visitor Plan in April 1971 and the A.T.C. Mr. HODGES: Yes. study outline the problems faced by the tourist industry, but, as a result of lack of Mr. JONES (Cairns) (12.18 a.m.): I note funding, nothing is done about them. that the honourable member for Isis, who criticised me, has since left the Chamber If the funds are available to the corpora­ and gone to bed. I want that recorded to tion, this clause may be the channel through indicate that his criticism was purely politi­ which that funding can take place. I have cal and had no basis in fact. very grave doubts that .that amount of money On the matter of advances and guarantees will be available to the corporation for dis­ for the purposes of promoting, fostering and bursement to these needy operators. assisting the development of the tourist and Green Island is a t:y1pical example o.f neglect travel industry in Queensland, I point out by the Government. The Beach Protection that the situation of island resorts is typical Author;i,ty spent $5,500,000 on the Gold Coast of what happens in the tourist industry. They over a 10-year period while during that period need development grants and loans, but I very much doubt whether the corporation only $135,000 was spent on Green Island, will be in a financial position to operate in t.he premier tounis.t resort ·in Nor·th Queens­ accordance with this clause. The islands are land, which is being washed away, wLth self-generating centres of population. Over nobody in Government giving a damn about the years they have been left to survive or it. wilt as their development funds ebb or flow. Mr. POWELL (Isis) (12.24 a.m.): The They have had to provide transport, sewer­ honourable member for Oairns is talking age, water, electricity and accommodation nonsense. Th·ere is no question