Moaduy, Ottobar1,1 9 9 0 Nbilli Scries, Vol.X, No. 22 AsTin 9, 1912
LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)
Third Session—Second Part (Ninth Lok Sabha)
(Fo/. X containsMok 22 to 24)
LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI
Price : Rs. 6^00 [ORIGINAL ENOUSH PROCaBEDlNOS INCLUDED IN ENOLmi VERSION AND ORIGINAL HINDI PROCEHDINOS INCLUDED IN HINDI VERSKW W ill, BE TREATED AS AUTHORITATIVE AND NOT THE TRANSpVTION THEREOF.] CONTENTS [Ninth Series, Vol. X, Third Session-Second Part, l990l1912{Saka) No. 22, Monday, October 1, 1990/Asvina 9, 1912 (Saka)
COUTMNS
Obituary References 1—4 Re. Adjournment Motion 19 -22, Police atrocities in dealing with students' agitation 135 against Government’s decision on Mandal Commission Report and resort to self-immolation by students against the decision Paper Laid on the Table 22 Assent to Bills 23 -24 Constitution (Seventy-Fifth Amendment) Bill 24 (Amendment of Article 356)—Introduced
Matters under Rule 377 25—31 (i) Need to bring Kakinada town in East Godavari 25 District of Andhra Pradesh on the main railway line Shri M. M. Pallam Raju (ii) Need to give financial assistance to Uttar 27—28 Pradesh for construction of bridges over river Gomti between Shahjahanpur and Lucknow Shri Ram Lai Rahi (iii) Need to withdraw the orders regarding closure 28—29 of Supply Department of DGS&D and its. decentralisation Shri Basudeb Acharia (iv) Need to take steps to provide drinking water 29 in Jahanabad, Bihar Shri Ramashray Prasnd Smgh (v) Need to provide more L.P.G. connections and 29—'30 need to regulate the supply of gas cylinders in Jaipur, Riyasthan Shri Girdhari Lai Bhargava (vi) Need to provide compensation to workers 30—31 rendered jobless due to closure of 16 textile mills in Alunedabad Shri Prakabh Koko Brahmbhatt (0 (ii)
COLUMKS Constitution (Seventy-Fifth Amendment) Bill 31-134 (Amendment of Article 356) Motion to consider Negatived Shri Mufti Mohammad Sayeed 31 -33, 100 107
Shri Kamal Chaudhry 34-41 Shri Yamuna Prasao Shastn 42 -47 Prof. Prem Kumai Dhumal 47 -51 Shri Saifuddin Choudhury 51 -56 Shri Indrajit Gupta 56 -62 Dr. Thambi Durai 62 -65 Shrimati Bimal Kaur Khalsa 6 6 -7 0 Shi i Kapil Dev Shastri 70 -73 Shrimati Sukhbuns Kaur 73-78 S. Atinder Pal Singh 7 9-82 Shri Inder Jit 82 84 Shri Kirpal Singh 84 87 Shri Nani Bhattacharya 87 88 Shri Harbhajan Lakha 88 90 Shri Rajdev Singh 90 93 Shri A. K. Roy 94- 96 Prof. Saif-ud-din Soz 96 100
Announcement by Deputy Speaker 136 Sitting for 3 October, 1990 cancelled on account of Prophet Mohammad Sahib’t. birthday LOK SABHA DEBATES
LOK SABHA Chaudhary Multan Singh was elect ed to this House from Jalesar Coos* tituency of Uttar Pradesh in the Grae- ral Elections held In November. 1989, Monday, October 1, 19901Asvina 9, He had represented the same consti 1912 iSaka) tuency in the Sixth Lok Sabha (1977- 79) and Seventh Lok Sabha (1980-84K Earlier he had been a Member of The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Sabha contin Clock uously for four terms, during 1962-67, J 967-69, 1969-74 and 1974-77. [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] He served on the Parliamentary OBITUARY REFERENCES Committee on Public Undertakings and [English] also Consultative Committee for the Ministry of Petroleum. Chemicals and MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, Fertiliser for about 2 years. As a as we meet today after an interval of Member of Uttar Pradesh Vidhan about three weeks, it is my sad duty Sabha also, he was assix;iatcd with to inform the House of the d^ise its various Committees, vi?. Estimates of two sitting Members, namely Shri Committee, Public Accounts Com Shashibhai Jamod and Chaudhary mittee etc. Therefore his services and Multan Sin^h and two of our former contribution as a legislator were enor colleagues, i.e., Sarvashri Raj Baha mous. dur and Prafulla Chandra Sen. Chaudhary Muhan Singh served the Shri Shashibhai Jamod was elected country in a multi-faceted capacity, as to this House from Bhavnagar Cons an agriculturist, political worker and tituency of Gujarat State in the Gene an able parliamentarian. He had ral Elections held in November, 1989- been actively involved in the Socialist Earlier, he had been a Member of Movement. the Gujarat Legislative Assembly during 1985-89 and also a Minister in the State Cabinet for a short peri
Sabha from Bharatpur coastituenc^ of A well-known sodal and political Rajasthan, which position he retained worker, he preferred constructive ru» in the Second. Third and Fifth Lok ral work and upliftment of depressed Sabha. and downtrodden classes in Arambagh which earned him the sobriquet of tJie He held with distinction various im ‘Gandhi of Arambagh’. portant portfolios in the Union Coun cil of Ministers during his long and An able administrator, Shri Sen illustrious parliamentary career. An held the portfolio of Food with dis able parliamentarian, he took keen in tinction in the State Cabinet headed terest in the proceedings of the House by Dr. B.C. Roy, right from 1948. and made significant contributions Subsequently on the demise of Dr. thereto. As a Minister of Parliamen Roy, Shri Sen succeeded him as Chief tary Affairs, his contribution for Minister of West Bengal in 1962 till smooth functioning of the House will the general election held in 1967. always be remembered. A well-known and soft-spoken par A veteran freedom fighter, he ac liamentarian, his contributions in the tively participated in the freedom proceedings of Lok Sabha, particularly stru^le from his college days and led in regard to ujpliftment of weaker sec the movement in erstwhile State of tions of thel society and spread of edu Bharatpur in 1940-41 to 1947 and cation amongst the masses, shall al suffered imprisonment. ways be remembered. An Advocate by profession, he was Shri Sen. despite having indifferent associated with several social and health over the last few years, took political organisations. He worked active part in the political affairs. He relentlessly for the social upliftment passed away at Calcutta on 25 Sep of the backward classes and vigorous tember. 1990 at the age of 94 years. ly camp.iigned for abolition of forced labour in the State of Bharatpur. We deeply mourn the loss of these friends and I am sure the House will A widely travelled person he took join me in conveying our condolences keen interest in sports too. to the bereaved families. The House may now stand in si Shri Raj Bahadur passed away at lence for a short while to express its Delhi on 22 September, 1990 at the sorrow. age of 78. The Members then stood ?«i silence Shri Prafulla Chandra Sen was a for a shcvt while member of the Constituent Assembly. He was elected to Sixth Lok Sabha from Arambagh constituency from [Translation] West Bengal in 1977. Earlier he had SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA been a member of West Bengal As (South Delhi): Mr. Speak«, Sir, sembly. Shri Sen was one of the ol pie are committing self-immolation. dest living Gandhians and freedom {Interruptions) fighters in the country. [English] He suffered imprisonment for a to tal period of 11 years for participat MR. SPEAKER: Please take your ing in Non-Cooperation Movement, seats. Civil Disobedience Movement and the Quit India Movement. Even as a ilnterruptiam) student, he was attracted by the call MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Prime Minis of nationalist mov«nent. Later on. ter. he was drawn towards Gandhiji and his principles of non-violence. (Intarupttim) ASVINA 9, 1912 {SAKA)
MR. SPEAKER; Please take your [Translation] seats. MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kalim th and I have called the hon. Prime Minis Shri Kumaramangalam, jdease tidce ter. your seats. (Interruptions) (Interrupticm) MR. SPEAKER: Will you please [English] / take your seats? SHRI AJIT PANJA: He has no (IrtterruptUms) right to speak. He must first visit the MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Rawat, please crying mothers whose children were take your seat. killed and visit the injured now in hospitals. (Interruptions) (Inierrupthm) MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you SHRI AJIT PANJA (Calcutta North after the Prime Minister. Now, will East): How can he speak Sir? He has you please take your scat? lorfeited his right to speak. (Intet- rupliom) (Interruptions) MR SPEAKER: Mrs Jamuna. [Trmstation] please go to your seat. MR. SPEAKER: Rawatji, please (Interruptions) take youi seat. SHRIMATI J JAMUNA (Rajah- mundry): He should resign Sir. (Interruptions) (Interruptions) [English] [rranslalion] MR. SPEAKER: I am on my legs. The Speaker is on his legs Please MR. SPEAKER: Please take your take your seats. seat (IrUerruptions) {Interruptions) MR SPEAKER: Mr. Agarwal. take lEnglisfi] you seat. I am not going to hear you. SHRIMATI J. JAMUNA: How (Interruptions) many mothers have lost their chil MR. SPEAKER: Mr Rawat, I am dren ! (Interruptions) on my legs. Please take your seat. (Interruptiona) [Translation] [Tranyiation] MR SPEAKER: Please take your MR. SPEAKER: Rawatji, it will seat not do. Please take your seat I have called the hon. Prime Minister. PROF. YADU NATH PANDEY (Hazaribagh): I have been brought {Interruptions^ here in police custody. May I know [Eng/is/t] the charges on which I have been ar MR. SPEAKER: I i«quest all of rested (Iraerruptions)** you to allow me to conduct the House smoothly. Mr. Prime Minister. MR. SPEAKER: Please take your (Interruptions) seat MR. SPEAKER: Will you now [Enftlish] hear the Prime Minister? Nothing goes on record. (Interruptions) **{Interruptions) Not Recorded. OCTOBER I, 1990 8
[Translation\ Minister. I was prevented from going there...... (Inferrupiions) DR. LAXMJNARAYAN PAN- DEYA (Mandsaur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, MR. SPEAKER: Pandeyji, please according to the rules, the Motion of lake your seat. Please listen to the Privileges should be taken up first. Hon. Prime Minister first. I have given a notice that Prof. Yadu- nath has been arrested without any PROF. YADU NATH PANDEY: reason. He was prevented from go 1 tried to contact them on telephone ing to his constituency and was kept on the 18th. If a Member of Parlia in Tihar jail ...... {Interruptions)** ment will not go to his constituency... [Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. MR. SPEAKER : 1 have not allow ed you. Please take your seat first. [English] 1 will call you after that. Nothing g(>es on record. (Inferrupiions) {Intemtptiom)** [English] [Translation] MR. SPEAKER: 1 am on my legs. MR. SPEAKER: Yadunathji, You please take your seat, please take your scat. 1 will look in to the matter. [Trunsiation] All of you, please take your seats. (hilerrnptions) Let me conduct the proceedings of SHRl HARTSH RAWAI (Al- the HouvSe properly, I am on my raora): This Government is responsi lc|js. All of you, please take your ble for the bloodshed ...... seats. (fntenuptiom) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rawat, please take your seat. A discussion MR. SPEAKER: Rjwatji, please will be held on this issue. lake your seat first. When I am on my legs, all of you should take your [English] seats. SHRl VASANT SATHE: (War- PROF. YADU NATH PANDEY: dha): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have al Mr. Speaker, Sir...... (Interruptions) ready informed you that I have com f English'\ menced a fast unto death from 11.00 O' clock in protest against the action MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go taken by the Prime Minister and his on record. You must first take your Government. Until he amends his seat. decision, 1 am sitting in this House (Interruptions) on fast unto death right from 11.00 MR. SPEAKER: 1 have not al- O' clock today. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I Kiwed you. had already informed you about it. MR. SPEAKER: No, that is not (Interruptions) done, Mr. Sathe. MR. SPEAKER; When I am on my legs, you please take your seats. [TransUilion] (Jnterruptiom) PROF. YADU NATH PANDEY: Mr. Speaker, Sir, everybody is equal MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Rawat, I am in the eyes of interruptions),,. on my legs and you are still continu on the 15th, I wrote to the hon. ing your speech. Horae Minister and to the Hon. Prime (Interruptions) ♦Not recorded. ASVINA 9, 1912 10
MR, SPEAKER: Nothing will go MR. SPEAKER: But when I am on record* on my legs, as per rules, all of you should take your seats and allow me (Interruptions)* to conduct the proceedings of the [Translation] House properly. {Interruptions) SHRIDAU DAYAL JOSHI (Kota): Mr. Sf^akcr, Sir, Did you receive in MR. SPEAKER: Pandeyiji, this is formation about the arrest of the hon. not the way. Please take your seat Member? first. MR. SPEAKER: Please take your {Interruptions) seat tirst. Not in this way. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I did not refuse permission to anyone. 1 have said SHRI HARIN PATHAK iAhrae- that all of you should take your seats. dabad) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, please tell T will call everybody turn by turn. us whether you had the information Kalka Dasji, please take your seat. abont the arrest of the hon. Member. {Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Unless all of you SHRI DINESH SINGH (Pratap- take your seats, T cannot allow any garh) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like one. to say . . XInterrnptions). . (Interruptions) SHRI GUMAN MAL LODHA MR SPEAKER: Mr, Rawat, you (Pali): Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are the know the rules. Please take your custodian of the rights of all the hon. seat. First let the proceedings of the Members of this House. (Interrup House be conducted properly. tions) (/ntertnptiom) MR. SPEAKER: I am not denying it, but it is also mv responsibility to AN HON, MEMBER: Mr. Spea ker, Sir, It is a very serious matter. conduct the proceedings of this House properly. I did not refuse them per MR. SPEAKER: T have not denied mission but the proceedings of this \U but it is my first duty to conduct House will not be allowed to be con- the House properly. I have not pre ducteti in that manner. Please take vented them also. They don’t want your seat. the proceedings of the House to be (Interruptions) conducted properly. ilnferruptiom) MR. SPEAKER: No, no. Not like this. MR. SPEAKER: Pandeyji, I know (Interruptions) that, but there are some rules of the House, Under those rules, you have MR. SPEAKER : Information re got various ways to raise your points. garding Shri Yadunath Pandcy’s atrest (Interruptions) is given in the Bulletin. .. (Interruptions),,, SHRI KALKA DAS (Karol Bagh): Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a matter of de MR. SPEAKER : That informa nial of right to an hon. Member. tion has appeared in the Bulletin. Please give your protection to the hon. However, whatever he wants to say, Member and listen to what he wants I will listen to him. but first let the to say. proceedings be conducted in a proper
*Not Recorded. II OCTOBER I, 1990 12 way. Won’t you listen to the Leader say anything else, if so, say it in of the House? Won’t you listen to brief. the Prime Minister? PROF. YADU NATH PANDEY: ...(Interruptions).,. Mr, Speaker, Sir, to be brief, I would like to know whether any Member of SHRIKALKADAS: Mr. Speaker, Parliament can be prevented frpm Sir, please do listen to Shri Pandey... visiting his comstituency? But I was .. .{Interruptions)... prevented. It is murder of democ MR. SPEAKER; Please be seated. racy- If we can’t go to our consti tuency, where else can we go? Why ...(!nierruptions)... the administration is pursuing ihh dual [English] policy? On the one hand, an M.P. ofl B,J.P. cannot visit his constituency, PROF. SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ (Bara- a restriction is imposed on him and mulla): Sir, I want to speak on Jammu no notice is issued to him, but the and Kashmir.... (Interruptions)... people of other parties can take out big processions with the co-operation [Trcmslation] of the administration and no restric MR. SPEAKER: First, the Prime tion is imposed in that case. Please Minister was standing and 1 had asked let us know first as to why the ad him to speak. The Leader of the ministration is adopting this dual House will speak first. policy there? ...{Interruptions).., Mr. Speaker, please let us know as to what ...(Interruptions)... IS our fault in this case? .. (Inter- DR. SHAILENDRANATH SHRI- ruptions).. Honourable Speaker, you VASTAVA (Patna): Mr. Speaker, may recall that I had rais^ a ques please do listen to Shri Pandey. tion about the problem of that area on 6th September during the Zero MR. SPEAKER: 1 have not dis- Hour. But the Government turned a allowed? I am here to listen to him deaf ear to the problem to which I also. wanted to draw its attention. No follow up action was taken in this re DR. SHAILENDRANATH SHRI- gard. 1 apprehend that the district or VASTAVA: Please listen to Mr. the local administration is prepared Pandey first. to go to any extent. T wrote letters to the Home Minister, the Prime MR. SPEAKER: I will listen to Minister, the Chief Minister of Bihar him after I h:we heard the Prime and Home Secretary of that State on Minister. the 13th asking them as to what action had been taken against the people .. .(Interruptions).., who prevented the demonstrations SHRT GUMAN MAL LODHA: held by the people with flags of Rama Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shri Pandey has Navami on 2nd April? ...{Interrupt been brought here under police custody tions)... even today. He is present before you 1 had mentioned in the letter that just like a prisoner. Mr. vSpeaker, the District Administration would does it behove the government that be ready to do something, but on 16th, somebody is iirrested without any legal 1 came to know that Army had been warrant. In this way, they are violat alerted in Ha/aribagh. I left this ing the liiw of the land. You are the place on 17th. On 20th September, custodian of our rights. Our security 1990, when 1 was going there, I came is your duty. (Interruptions) to know that our idols were being immersed in the “Pitra Paksha” (dark MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Pandey, 1 fortnight of the month of Ashwin) and had received information about your the ensigns were broken by the ad arrest, and it has been published in ministration. Later on when I went the Bulletin. Now do you want to there, I was arrested on 20th in the 13 ASVINA9,1912 14
evetting and wa«r &at t could not {Tnmslati
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Shrivastava, [TransUMiori\ please take your seat. SHRI DINESH SINGH: Mr. Spea- ,,.(ffUerruptions),.. ker» Sir, one of our senior colleagues is here on hunger-strike. He says that DR. LAXMINARAYAN PAN- he will remain on hunger strike as DEYA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a long as excesses are committ^ on matter of Privilege ...{Interruptions).. children. The Government have not Honourable Member seeks your pro- taken any step to save the lives of tection. children, but the way the police assaulted the c\A\drtx\...{Interrup MR. SPEAKER: Pandeyaji, 1 am tions). .. not allowing you to speak. [English] ...(Interruptions),,. MR. SPEAKER: T have permitted him. Mr. Jadav, you please sit down. SHRI RAM NAIK (Bombay Will you please take your seat? North): Mr. Speaker, we arc walk ing out of the House in protest against ,,.(Interruptions). the manner in which a Member of Parliament has been arrested. [Tran.s'lation] SHRI DINESH SINGH: Mr. Spea- 11*41 brs. At this stage, Shri Ram ker. Sir, just now, you witnessed a Naik and some other hon- Members left drama in the House. Leaving aside the House. the issue of excesses on the children, the B.J.P. has wasted the whole time ...(Interruptions)... of the House on a personal issue. [Translation] This drama that they have enacted MR. SPEAKER: All of you, is not going to benefit the country in please sit down and allow me to any manner. 1 want to make an work...... {huetruptions)...... humble submission that first of all, you should take up the adjournment SHRI DINESH SINGH: Mr Spea- motion. It won’t be proper to take kcr. Sir. 1 have to make an humble up any other matter. This misunder submission. You are seeing the pre standing (Interruptions)...... This sent condition of the country and are misunderstanding is being created that also seized of the feelings of this we are against the Mandal Commis House. You can yourself imagine as sion Report and against reservations. to how we people have resisted our- This is totally baseless and our com selves to sit here with great difficulty plaint is...{Interruption's) when we find the hands of the present Government stained with the blood ol MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Dinesh innocent children. Just now* one of Singh, why are you looking at that our elder colleagues has submitted side, you please address the Chatr... that he is on hunger-strike... tit>n^s)...... (Interruptions) SHRI DINESH SINGH: Mr. [English] Speaker, Sir. in between {Interrup tions) ...... SHRf A. CHARLES (Trivan drum): Sir, translation is not com MR. SPEAKER: Mayawatiji, ing. please take your seat. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: You will get the translation. SHRI DINESH SINGH: We are against the manner in which the an nouncement regarding the implemen •(Interruptions).,, tation of the Maadal Commission J7 ASV1NA9, i9\2(SAKA) 18
Report was made on 7th August, be MR. SPEAKER: Mayawatiji, cause it is not going to benefit the back please take your scat ward classes in any way. On the contrary, we feel that it was a des SHRI YAMUNA PRASAD SHAS- perate attempt on the part of the TRI (Rewa): 1 am on a point Of Government to save its skin. The order. police excesses on students should not be linked with the issue of reserva MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Shastri, tions. We request you to accept the please sit down. A Point of Order is notice of adjummerit motion that we not raised in this manner. Mayawatiji, had submitted and not to take up any please take your wSeat. This is not other matter before it. ilntenupiions) proper. ihite} ruptionsY [English] MR. SPEAKER: Please take your MR. SPEAKER: You aic speak^ seat. ing without the permission of the Chair. I have not allowed you. You [Translation] please sit down. You please sit down. Allow me to [English] conduct the business of the House, Mayawatiji, please take your seat. I MR SPEAKER: Nothing will go am not listening to you. {Interrupt on record. tions) {Jnterntptions)'^ [English] [Translanon] MR. SPEAKER : I have to inform the House that I have received six MR SPEAKER: Mayawatiji. notices of adjournment motion regard please take your seat. ing police excesses on students in variiJus parts of the country and self- (Interruptions^^ immolation by students against the [English] decision of the Central Government in regard to reservation policy from MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go the following Members: on record. Shri Jagpal Singh (fnteituptionsf Prof. Saif-ud-din Soz [Translation] Shri Ram Lai Rahi Shri Dinesh Singh MR. SPEAKER: Mayawatiji, Shri R. N. Rakesh please take your seat. Shri B. Shankaranand (Interruptions)* Unterruption&T MR. SPEAKER : Mayawatiji, this type of conduct is not proper. Please [Translation] take your seat. MR. SPEAKER : Mayawatiji, you (Intel ruptions)* please listen to me. 1 am not per mitting you. I think you will speak MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Khurana. in support of reservation. You please please sit down. I am speaking go back to your seat. Please take youi seat. (Interruptions) (Interruptions)*
*Not Recorded 19 Re. Adjournment OCTOBER 1, 1990 Motion 20
SHRl MADAN LAL KHURANA: [Translation] Mr. Speaker, Sir. Water supply is SHRI RAM LAL RAHI (Misrikh): very erratic in West Delhi. WTierc 1 withdraw in favour of Shri Shanka- from people will get drinking water? ranand. There is no water. The Government controlled media is misleading the pub [EngUsh] lic and there is no water and petrol SHRI DINESH SINGH (Pratap- too is not available .. .{Interruptions)... garh): I withdraw in favour of Snri Students are committing self-immola Shankaranand. tion. . .(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Shri R. N. Rakesh- -not present. SHRI B. SHANICARANAND (Chikkodi): I beg to move for leave 11^3 his. to move my motion of adjournment. RE. ADJOURNMENT MOTION MR. SPEAKER; Is the leave op posed? — The leave is not opposed. The leave is granted. Police atrocities in dealing wiOi stu dents’ egitatkm against Government’s SHRI B. SHANKARANAND decision on IVfan&l Commission Re (Chikkodi): Sir, I may kindly be port and resort to self-immolation by permitted to move the motion in the stndients' against tlie decision form in which 1 have given. I now read my motion. [English] “Tlie unprecedented situation MR. SPEAKER: I have to inform resulting in a total collapse of the House that I have received six administration, police atrocities notices of adjournment motion regard on students and youth, desperate ing police excesses on students in acts of self-inmiolation by young various parts of the country and self- girls and boys and loss of pre immolation by .students again.st the cious lives, and arising out of the decision of the Central Government in Oeplcrable haste, ineptitude and regard to reservation policy from the obstinacy of the Prime Minister following members: in dealing with a sensitive issue affecting the society as a whole.” 1. Shri Jugpiil Singh MR. SPEAKER: You have now 2. Prof. Saifuddin Soz moved your own Resolution. Is the 3. Shri Ram Lai Rahi leave opposed? — Leave is granted. Under Rule 61, the adjournment mo 4. Shri Dinesh Singh tion is to be taken up at 16.00 hours 5. Shri R. N. Rakesh or at an earlier hour and not less 6. Shri B. Sliankaranand than 2\ hours are allotted for its dis cussion. The motion will be taken up at 16.00 hours today. 1 give my consent to Shri Jagpal Singh who has secured first place in the (Interruptions) ballot to move the motion, is Mr. Jagpal Singh there?-not present. PROF. P. J. KURIEN (Maveli- Prof. Saifuddin Soz. kara): Sir. in the same Rule it is also mentioned that if the Speaker wants, he can allow the motion to be PROF. SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ (Bara- taken up earlier after taking the sense mulla): I withdraw in favour of of the House...... (Intaruptiom). cither Shri Dinesh Singh or Shri Please hear my submission. Punjab Shankaranand. Bill is very important. We accept that 21 Re. Adjournment Motion ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA) Paper Laid 22
and for that only we have met here. MR. SPEAKER: I think it is the But the point is that lusver in the his sense of the House that v c ^ g will tory of this country we have come take place at 2.00 P.M. across such a number of self-immo lation by our youths. How many of 12.00 hra. our young students have died? This is equally important subject, may be [Trutulation] more important subject and, therefore, adjournment motion should be taken SHRI RAJIV GANDHI; Let the up inunediately. voting take place at two OVlock. THE MINISFER OF INFORMA MR. SPEAKER: Agreed, but the TION AND BROADCASTING AND Membei!) should be mformed about MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY the time of voting. AFFAIRS (SHRI P. UPENDRA): Sir. in the meeting of the leiden which was convened this morning the [English] t-onsensus was that we will take up SHRI P. UPENDRA: Let it be at the Adjournment Motion between two O’clock, Sir. 4.00 and 4.30 P.M. after finishing vot ing on the Constitution Amendment MR SPEAKER: I think it is the Bill and it was also agreed that we hcnse of the House that the voting will forgo lunch hour today. We will will take place at 2 p.m. so that we also sit late in the night. Dinner has can pass the Bill by 2.30 p.m. Now, been arranged for Ihe hon. Members. papers to be Laid on the Table. SHRI RAJIV GANDHI
’ Draft Notification was laid on the Table of I ok Sabha on 7-8-1990. 23 Assent to Bills OCTOBER 1, 1990 Const. {75th Amend.) BUI 24 {Amend, of Art. 356)
12.01i hrs. (5) The Conservation of Foreign Exchange and Prevention of Smuggling Activities (Amend> ASSENT TO BILLS ment) Bill, 1990.
[Eng/is/i]
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, 12.02i his. 1 lay on the table the following four Bills passed by the Houses of Parlia CONSTITUTION (SEVENTY- ment during the first Part of the FIFTH AMENDMENT) BILL* current session and assented to since a report was last made to the House (Amendment of Article 356) on the 8th August. 1990; — [t'/ig/is/jJ (1) The Anpropiiation (No. 3) Bill, THE MINISTER OF HOME 1990. ‘ AFFAIRS (SHRl MUFTI MOHA (2) rhc Punjab Appropriation (No. MMAD SAYEED): Sir. [ beg to 2) BillJ990. move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend th.- Constitution of (3) The Appropriation (Railways) India. No. 3 Bill, 1990. MR. SPEAKER: 1 h^ question is; (4) The Prasar bharati (Hioadcasi- “That leave be granted to in ing Corporation of India) Bill. troduce a Bill further to amend 1990. the Constitution of India."
Sir. 1 also lay on the 1 able copies, r/ie Motion iv«s duly authenticated by the Secretary- General of Rajya Sabha, ot the fol SHRI MUFTI MOHAMMAD lowing five Bills passed by the Houses SAYEED: I introduce the Bill. of Parliament during the lirst part of the current session and assented to since a report was la.st nude li> the House on the 8th August. 1990:-- MR. SPEAKER: Now we shall (1) The ComniisionN of Inquiry take up Matters under Rule 377 ...... (Amendment) Bill, I99t). (Itilerruplioas) (2) The National Comniissio.) for Women Bill. 1990. [I rciiislatioitl
(3) The Armed I orces (Jammu PROF'. SAIF-UD-DIN 5>OZ (Bara- and Kashmir) Special Powers mulla): What about the Zero Hour? Bill. 1990. SHRJ MADAN LAL KHURANA (South Delhi); Mr. Speaker. Sir. peo (4) The Prevention of Illicit Traffic ple in Delhi arc not getting water for in Narcotic Drugs and Psycho the last four and a half days, this is tropic Substances (Amend a very important matter, (Interrup- ment) Bill. 1990. lions)
1-10^1?9()'’*'^ Extraordinary. Part II. Section 2. dated 25 Matters under ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA) Rule 377 26
1103 hiv. [Trartslaiion] PROF. SAIF^UD-DIN SOZ (Bara- m a t t e r s u n d e r r u l e 377 mulla): Mr. Speaker, Sir. thcK adunir issue is a very important one. (i) Need ta Mng KaktnnJa town in East Godnvari District of Andhra MR. SPEAKER: Please take your Pradesh on the main railway line seat. Matters raised under Rule 377 100 are important. [Lnglish] SHRl BHAJAN LAL (Farida- bad). Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to SHRl M. M. PALLAM RAJU draw the attention of this august (Kakinada): Sir, Kakinada town, the House towards a very important issue. headquarters of East Godavari Dis {Inletruptions) trict in Andhra Pradesh, which is fast developing into a n*ajor industrial port, suffers from the handicap of not Mr. SPEAKER: Mr. Bhajan Lai. being on the main railway line, which please sit down. Shri Rahi is raising has turned out to be a major hind a matter under rule 377. rance in the town’s progress. {Interrupt iotvi) An Asian Development Bank loan of Rs. 134 crores has been sanction SHRl MADAN LAL KHURANA ed to develop Kakinada into a deep (South Delhi): Mr. Speaker, Sir, for water port which will increase ship the past four and a lialf days, the tralllc and hence multiply the inflow people of Delhi are not getting drink and outflow of goods from the port. ing water. This »s a very important Rapid industrialisation over the last matter and the hon. Minister should few years has also resulted in increas give a statement in this regard. (Inter- ed passenger and goods traflic. / upturns)
I he nearest railway station to MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Bhajan LaU Kakinada on the main line is Samal- I am not allowing you. I am not per mitting even Shri Khurana. You have kot Junction which is thirteen Kilo metres away. The quota of berths been a Chief Minister and you must be aware of all the rules, 1 have re on all the trains is negligible and mosi fused permission to you, even then of the super-fast trains do not stop there. you arc g<^ing ahead with your speech. (hUetruptioan) In view of these facts, and since MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Khurana, 1 Kakinada is on the verge of unpre agree with you that you are raising a cedented growth in the district, I urge upon the Government to take very important issue regarding water immediate steps towards bringing supply. The Government will sec to Kakinada onto the main railway line. it. Now. please take your scat. Mr. Bhajan Lai you also take your seat. I am not pcnnitting you. As an ihtermediatory measure. 1 urge upon the Minister of Railways ilnicrruptions) to increase the quota of berths on all the trains at Samalkot and at MR. SPEAKER: Please take your Kakinada and ensure the stoppage of scat. Now, Mr. Ram Lai Rahi. all super-fast trains at Samalkot Junc tion. {Interruptions) 27 Malters muler OCTOBER I, 1990 Rule 377 28
12.05 hr& I MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER at the proposed sites of these three in the Chair] bridges immediately after the rainy season is over. Even for the construc (ii) Need to give financial assis tion of Pontoon bridges Central Gov tance to Utlar Praidesh for ernment should provide immediate construction of bridges over financial assistance to Uttar Pradesh river GomtL between Shahja- tumpor and Lucknow Government. SHRI RAM LAL RAHl (Mi»- SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA rikh): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the (South Delhi): Mr. Deputy Speaker. Gomti River flows from the Shahja- Sii, what else would be greater injus hanpur district of Uttar Pradesh and tice than this? The Government wants from their it (lows demarcating the the people to die of thirst. 1 would border line «)f Hardoi and Sitapur .ike to know as to which of the offi districts and thereafter it flows to cers and the Government were res wards Lucknow. This river flows ponsible for this. There was no sup along the border uf these two districts ply of watei in Delhi for 90 hours. in a stretch of .\bout 100 kms. In Despite our repeated requests drink such a vast stretch there arc only ing water could not be made availa two bridges over the river. One is ble to the people of Delhi. It is at Bhakurahaghat on the Pisavan not that they did not get water for Gopamau highway and another one twelve or twenty four hours but near Neimsharanya on Sitapur Haidol people were deprived of water for Highway. Now the construction of 90 hours at a stretch. Unierruplions) three bridges one at Kulhaghat on ^iii) Need to withdraw the orders Magheli-Pihanii highway, another one regirrding closure of Supply De at Hathiaghal on Hatyaharan-Nemi- partment of DGS&D and its sharanya highway anJ one bridge at decentralisation Hhatpur ghat on Sidhauli-Atrauli Highway-has become absolutely es j English] sential. Pending the construction of all the three biidges, the overall deve SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA lopment of the rural areas in a vast (Dankura); Sir, the Central Govern stretch of hundred miles on the bank ment has decided to wind up the of this river is not pos>ible. The centralised purchase organisation, i.e.. demand fi'ir construction of a bridge Directorate General of Supplies & on Gomti liver at Bhatarpur Ghat is Cisposajs, Department of Supply, being made ever ^ince a long time. LiiiJer the Ministry of Commerce. In Uttnr Prade>h and also in this W ith this decision, the purchase work river the material for construction of which had been clone by DG.S.&D. bridges is lying unutilised at mi.ny will be handed over to the respective places. By utilizing it, for the con Depaitments without giving its em venience of the people, bridges can ployees any specific guideline. This be constructed on the livers. Our will render at least 4000 employees demand is that permanent bridges surplus. This decision is against the may be constructed on Gomli river recommendation of the Estimates at Bhatpurghat. Hatiaghat and Kul Committee of Parliament which had haghat anu for this purpose the Cen recommended the continuation of the tral Government should make availa centralised purchase through the ble requiicd funds to the U.P. Bridge D.G.S.&D. and its extension to other Corporation so that construction work public sector undertakings. Without of the bridges may be taken up as consulting the trade union, the Com per its schedule. It is also requested merce Ministry has recently issued that pending construction of perma orders to wind up the Disposal wing nent bridges at Hathiaghat, Bhatpur- of D.G.S.&D. and otfkes at Kanpur, ghat & Kulhaghat, without further loss Kulti, Rourkela and to merge the of time, U.P. Government should be offices at Bombay, Bhadrabati etc. asked to construct pontoon bridges This is unusual and,against the policy 29 Matters under ASVINA 9, 1912 (5/40) Rule 377 30
of the Goveminent. This order is accordingly during the last ten years, m)W postponed for 2 months due to total demand has gone upto one lakh agitation amongst the employees of gas connections i.e. at the rate of 10000 D.G.S.&D. Althougb the order has per year. Ail the three Government been postponed, yet another order agencies combined together provide a was issued on 6th September, 1990, total of 5500 new connections every k> decentralise the D.G.S.&D, and year. In this waj the waiting list is to transfer the ad hoc indents to the showing approximately H lakh people. indenting Mim'stries / Departments ulong with the officers and the staff So, 1 would like to urge upon the of D.G.S.&D. dealing with the work. Government to raise the quota of new connections in case of Jaipur to at least 1 would request the Goveniment 20000 per year. Moreover, even the not to initiate any change in the pre hupply position in respect of gas cy sent from of D.G.S.&D. and imme linders in Jaipur is so bad that one diately withdraw its orders regarding gets a refill not before 15 days of his closure and decentralisation. request for the same. The supply posi tion needs to be improved immediately (fv) Need to take steps to provide tind a refilling unit should be immedia drinking water in Jahanabad, tely set up at Jaipur. In view of the Bihar difficulties being faced by the consu [fran^lation] mers the Government had startei! a scheme of providing second cylinder SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD but at present even this facility is not SINGH (Jahanabad): Mr. Deputy provided inspite of a request for the Speaker, Sir, in thousands of villages same. After looking into the matter in Jahanabad there is no drinking rho Government should improve the N\ater facility for Harijans and the supply position in respect of the avai poor. To this day they get their sup lability of second cylinder to the con ply of drinking water from temporary sumers. >^e]ls and rivers and consequently thousands of people suffer from cho (vi) Need to provide compensation lera and succumb to this disease every to workers rendered jobless due year. It is causing resentment among to closure of 16 Fextilc Millfli the youths and a feeling of aversion. in Ahmedabad As a result the people are coming for ward to join the armed wings of the extremist organisations. In this con SHRl PRAKASH KOKO BRAHM- nection, I have made written .requests B H A fT (Raroda): Sir. sixteen Textile to the Bihar Government and the Gov- Mills in Ahmedabad city were cIo‘>ed etnment of India. I request the Cen down and as a result of which 40,000 tral Government to provide drinking woikors have been rendered jobless water in the villages where the Harijans These 16 mills should be allowed to and the poor reside and e^cpenses be scrapped. The State Government thereof should be borne by the centre. of Gujarat has urged that the state (v) Need to provide more L.P.G. may be allowed to sell a viable section connectiofw and nee^ to regu on the comnosite mills to any enire- late fhe supply of gas cylindeis preneur and recover rent of full in> Jaipur, Ra jastiian amount. The unviahle units which could not be worked, could be scrap SHRI GIRDHARI LAL BHAR- ed. Land building and machinery CjAVA (Jaipiur); Mr. Deputy Speakei, should be allowed to be sold. ^ir. registration for new L.P.G. con nections in Jaipur was done in 1980. The State Government and the Cen At that time 88,000 people were on tral Government have fully agreed the wailing list The population of that full and partial closure whatever iaipur >^icb is the capital city of is in the interest of the nation must Rajasthan has increased rapidiv , and be executed. The Union Finance Minis- 3-4 LSS/ND/90 31 Const, {75ih Anwnd,\ Bill OCTOBER L 1990 (/(wm/. o//4rr. J56) 32 Motion to Consider
[Sh, Prakash Kokt) Rralimhhatl] ment was obtained for continuance ter has been urged lo pay the gratuity, of President's rule for a further period rctrcnchineiu compensation and rehabi- of six months with cfTect from litatic/n allowance from the assists of 11-1M987. the companies as per the rccommen- duiions of ihe Abid Hussain Com- As the law and rrder situation in initfec 1 ho veteran labour leader the State continued to be disturbed. and advisr>r to Majoor Mahi^jan Sangh President’s rule in Punjab has been has suggested a formula to Union further extended from time to time rinance Minister regarding the closed with the approval of Parliament. The textile milK of Ahmedabad in order present term of President's rule is to pay the dues of the jobless W(^rkcrs. clue to expire on 10th November. i m 1 urge the Union Government to lake immediate measures about the re habilitation/paying of compensation to Under the then existing provisions the affected workers of the 16 mills of article 356 (5) of the Constitution. in Ahmedabad city which have been Piesident’s rule could not be extended closed for a long. beyonti a period of one year unless the two conditions relating to procla mation of Emergency being in opera tion in the whole of India or whole or 12.14 hrfli. any part of the State and a certificate b\ the Election Commission of India CONSTITUTION (SEVHNTY-FIFTH to the effect that the continuation of AMENDMENT) HILL the Proclamation issued under clause (!) of article 356 is necessary on ac (AnK^ndment of Article 356)—Contd. count of difficulties in holding gene- lal elections to the Legislative As- \ English] ^embl\ of the State, were met. As both these conditions were nor ful MR. D F P U n ' sr BAKER: The filled, article 365 <5) of the Consti tution was amended by the Constitu House will now take up item No. 6 tion (Fifty-ninth Amendment) Act. 1988 so as lo make clausc (5) of that IHE MINISTER OF HOME article in-applicabic to the Proclama AlfAIRS (SHRl MUFTI MOHAM tion issued on llth May, 1987 with MAD SAYFFD): Sir, J beg to respect to the State of Punjab. With move • this amendment. President's rule could bo extonded, if necessary, for a total “That the Hill finther to amend period of three years in Punjab with the C\)nstitution of India, be out fullilment of the conditions mcn- taken into consideration/' ti(Mied in clause (5) of article 356. By virtue of this amendment. President's As the House is aware, the Presi dent issued Proclamation under arti rule in Punjab was extended up to cle 356(1) the Constitution on 10-5-1990 with the approval of both llth May, IQ87 in relation to the the Houses of Parliament every six State of Punjab. The I eeislative months The Constitution (Fifty- Assembl> oi the State which was ninth Amendment) Act, I98S was re- initicilly kept under suspended anima pe'ded by the Constitution fSixty- tion was dissolved on 6th March. third Amendment) Act, 1989. 1988. The Proclamation is^ued by the President was approved bv the The three year period of Pi'esident's I ok Sabha as well as the Rajya rule in Punjab was lo expire on Sabha on 12th May, 1987. Ap 10-5-1990. As the law and order proval of both the Houses of Parlia situation prevailing in the State at 33 Const. {75th Amend.) ASVINA 9, \912 (SAKA) {A/mnd oj Art. 356) 34 Bill Motion to Consider
that time did not hold out good pios- bly you will get this point when he pccts for free and peaceful elections replies. to the State Legislative Assembly, it was felt necessary to continue the Befoie we start the discussion, I President’s proclamation of 11th may say that it is decided that the May, 1987 beyond 105-1990. Ac- adjournment-motion will be taken at cordingly, clauses (4) and (5) of arti 2-30 p.m. I hat means, we have, at cle 356 of the Constitution were amen our disposal, only two hours and ded by the Constitution (Sixty fourth fifteen minutes. At least 30 minutes Amendment) Act, 1990, t<^ enable the wculd be lequiied for voting. So. extension of President's rule in Punjab we have at our disposal one hour and tor a total period of ihiee years and fort\ tive minutes loi discussion. six months, which is clue to expire on May 1 request the hon. lViembc*rs to lOth November, 1990. coopeiaie and ^ee that we are in a position to take up this mailer as well It was cxpccted tlial il would be i's acljournment ir.otion on time? possible to hold elections to the Legis Iliis IS just a lequest to the hon. lative Assembly of Punjab within the Mcmbeis. 1 call upon Mr. Kamal extended time. However, the pie- ( haudhi> to finish hi^ speech in time. vailing circumstances in the wSlate are still not conducive for holding free [7/ anskitio}\\ and peaceful elections to the State Legislative Assembly. Clause (4) SHRl MADAN LAI. KHIJRANA of article 356 of the Constitution is, (South Delhi): What will happen to theref(Me, proposed to be amended so the amendments which hrive already as to facilitate extension of the said been given? Proclamation up to the total period ot four years in relation to the State ot Punjab. S. A UNDER PAL SlNCiH (Paiiala)’ Mr. Deputy Sfvaker. Sii, moic time should be 'jiven for it. It in view of the position explained, is a very sensitive n«atter. 1 hour 1 lequest this august House to ap and 45 minutes. . prove and pass the Constitution (Seventv-fifth Amendment) Bill, 1990. [Ehi^lisll] MR. DEPUTY SPEAKFR^: It MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER. Motion was decided m the House befoie, I moved: >uppo e Whai was'dccided, 1 have brought lo youi u»)iice. I am seek “That the Bill further I) amend ing \(Hir c(U)peiation. the Constitution of India, be taken into considei^ution.'' [1 ransUit urn]
S. A UNDER PAL SINGH: It SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR (Gurdaspury; Before we can dccide IS my request that more time should he uiven foi it. whether we want to support oi nol. we would like to know what steps [/jigltsli] they would take in Punjab so that the elections can be held within six MR DEPUTY SPEAKER f months. We should kni>w wh.it steps think It is just smne i»»inutes before. you arc going to take in the next six Mr. Kamal Chaudhiy please. months. SHRJ KAMAL CHAUDHRY MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He (Hoshiaipur) Hon. Deputy Speaker, has made some statetnent. Proba Sir, the voice of the people in this 35 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER I, 19% {Amend. qfArt. S56) U Motion to Consider
[Sh. Kamal Chaudhry] rists. People say that I have been country is being throttled. Demo elccted from Hoshlaipur. 1 chal cracy in Punjab has been throttled. lenge this Oovenunent that you nomi I would not waste my time and the nate any me Constituency out of 117 time of this House in trying to repeat Coastituencies in Punjab. 1 shall what all the hon. Members who are contest frcMn there. Let there be sitting on the other side have said any opponent. I have been, travel when they opposed the extension oS ling in Punjab freely. This mino the President's rule in Punjab when rity Government has created such the Congress was ruling. I would conditions where the law and order also not go into the detfiils cf how situation has totally collapsed. It is many people in Punjab have been kil a Government erf eunuchs. The led in terrorist violence and also in moment this Government was formied, police excesses. it started political gimmiclay like going to GoWen. Temple. T te Prime 1 would just come to the point that Minister made all sorts of fuimy state the Government doe» not want to ments. But what happened? H ds hold elections in Punjab. Government wanted a few days aad It is this bureaucratic system that then a few months to hold elections wc inherited from the Britishers. in Punjab to bring peace. The at The ICS OflBcers who were recruited mosphere in Punjab was congcaJiaJ. b\ the Britishers to lule India by re The previous Confess Govertment mote control and this Indian Admi created that atmosphere and elections nistrative Service that we inherited were held in a peaceful atmosphere. fiom them, today these arc the people The Prime Minister called all Mem wihi’ arc ruling this country and who bers of Parliament just the other day. have convinced the politicians in this It is a matter of .shame that the count)y that elections in Punjab should Prime Minister did not tell the press not be held. It is their lulc and they what the Members of Parliament told wish to continue mdefinitely. It is him. He was hiding the truth. But not a question three years, 34 or this Government has cheated. I will four years. The politicians who tell you. there were seven Members have been guided by the bureaucracy, of Parliament who went and met the ruling National Front Government the Prime Minister. The session was oi minoiity government, the Janata on. Some person came to the Cen Dal and its allies, the BJP and the tral Hall and checked up from the Communists, let us sec what are Members of I^rliament from Punjab their stakes in Punjab. Janata Dal if they could see the Prime Minister is positive that it cannot win even at 1 O’clock. I got the message at one seat in Punjab. The Commu 6 O’clock. There was no agenda in nists are also sure that not more than that letter. The time given was three or four seats they can get in 7 O’clock. The same tim« was given Punjab S.ime is the case with the to the Nepalese Delegation—^n e at BJP. {hilernipiions) Who wants 7. Race Course Road atld the other me to sit down? Have the guts to at 9. Parliament House. This is get up and say something? Do you how this Prime Minister's ofFksj func want to say something? Do not tions. We went there and asked ruin Punjab any further. Today you the Prime Minister to state what he arc drinking the blood of the young wanted and what was the agenda. er generation of this country. Ask Even in the meetiitg he did not say those politicians in Punjab who do anything. The full Cabinet Commit not want to have elections. Each tee on Politieid Affairs was also pre such candidate is positive that be sent. We were just asked to say cannot win this coming election. He something cm Punjab. ThWeafter is the one who is saying that elections all the seven Memben; erf Parliament in Punjab should not be held. It is from Punjab spoke. That is the not because of the fear of the terro beauty. Eadi Member said that 37 Caitst. {7Sth Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA) (Amend, of Art. SJ6) J8 Motion to Consider
elections should be held iu Punjab. | ^ MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Singh That is exactly my view and 1 have I Saheb, please, been hdding this view for the last? three years that the democracy should (Infirruptions) not be throttled. Thereafter, rest of the gimmickry started like the all [Engiish] party meeting. But what happened in that? Only those people who are SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY: positive that they cannot win the What is needed in Punjab, what is elections in Punjab they are the ones needed in this country is the control who arc saying time and again that of population. We are drinking the election should not be held. blood of the students, the younger generation. 1 have said in this very [TrmsUttion] House in April 1986 that the people in this country are going to come out SHRI RAJVEER SINGH (Aonla)* on the street and that there will be Arc you in favour of holding elections a civil war. This Govt, has created in Punjab? the condition for a civil war. I am not feeling sad. I am happy that the SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY- Yes, younger generation has come out in I am in favour of it. Iho streets today telling the elder gene- lation to wake up. A child is bom— SHRI RAJVEER SJNGH: 1( i.s a human being- and we are making good that we have comc to know your a (Iwodu or a cluimar or a backward views. 01 a scheduled caste out of that child. Jhis is what our elder generation is SHRI KAMAL CHAL'DHRY; But doing. This is what all these poli you don't have the ^uts to do anything ticians are doing sitting in this Parlia piactically. You simply '■peak here. ment You are putting a caste <;tamp You come with me to Punjab and see on the child's mind. the situation yourself. Toda> our bureaucrat's wife, an SHRI RAJVEER SINGH; But IAS officer’s wife who goes to UK the leadci of your party have not yet or^ America and cltxis a course of reached there. {Interruptions) beautician can open up a shop at home. She docs not want to call SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY: You herself a W a f—th atis called a beau should have conducted the election tician's saloon. But the b<'^y who is in Punjab immediately after the Par born in the stix^et is called a chooda liamentary elections. or a i'hamar. This House is doing it. I am challenging it. Stop this gimmickry. Stop this caste system: S. ATINDER PAL SINOH: I stop poisoning the n^inds of the youn am going to invite all the Hon’ble ger generation. I am waiting fur the Members to come to Punjab. Please day when the younger generation is accompany me. 1 will lake you to going to get up and catch the neck all the rural areas. of the parents who are producing ten to twelve children and ask them to SHRI KAMAL CH.AUDHRY: I stop it One Chief Minister in this do not require your invhatlon. Kama! country gets up and proudly says that Cj>*i'idhry does not need the invitation this is his tenth child, {hterrupriom) of Atinder Pal Singh to go to Punjab. [Trmslmion] . S. ATINDER PAL MNGH: My Hwitation is not confined to Kamal SHRIMATl BIMAL KAUR paudhiy alone bat to all the Mem KHALSA (Ropar>* Has not the bers of this House. congrcs$ been giving scholarship? to 39 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 (Amend, o f Art. 3S6) 40 Motion to Consider
[Smt. Bimal Kaur Khalsa] (Interruptions). They will have to the students in the schools? TTiey face the consequences of the situation contioued with their slogans of alle they have created in this country. viation of poverty,,.. (Jintermpfions)... MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Bimal Kaur Khalsaji, you will not interrupt in this way, you may speak Are you happy with what is hapipen* on your turn, Now, take your seat. ing in the streets? [English] 1 went to my constituency two days back. I heard that some boys we*e SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY: I serious and they were trying at sdf- am waiting for the day when a child immolation. You are blood suckers. is going to grab his father or mother You ask thi.s from those children. 1 and asks them to stop producing the am waiting for the day when the child next tenth or the twelfth child. That ren are going to hold you responsible is the need of this country ti'day. But for this. these politicians who arc to guide the people in the streets just want anc'ther [Translation] vote becausc when the child is going to become 18 years old, he bec
[English] [Translaticn^
MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shri SHRI YAMUNA PRASAD SHA- Kamal Chaudhiy. please address the STRI (Rewa): Mr. IJeputy Speaker, Chair. Sir, just now I listened to a oongwss member and it is vtty surprising that though this spokesman of the congrMS {Jrnenuptions) party has been elected from Punjab but about the Punjab situation, he has SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY: sp<.^ken hardly 2-3 sentences. The That is the reason, the youth in Pun situation is gnm in the country. Only jab today have picked up the guns. after a few minutes wc are going V> I have been requesting this House have a discussion on it. But he m ^e for the last five years that even those a mention of only those things which who do not respect the Constitution, were in a deviation from the topic un those who have guns in their hands der discussion in the House. Instead he and want to kill you should talk to should have expressed his views cm them. They also have some pro the Punjab Bill which has been intro blems. That is the only way by duced here by the hon. Home Mini which you can defuse the situation. ster. It is needed t(xlay. You have to talk to them. I talked to everyone. Sir. it is a circumstantial require The only thing which they want is ment. otherwise we never intended to this that they need somebody to talk avoid or postpone elections in Punjab. to them. Why 1 am saying that elec But this is not the question of to [Sh. Yamuna Prasad Shastrj] a step would have placated the people to some extent but the Govmunmt that the Assembly elections were held chose to do nothing. Th«t hurt the in Punjab and a popular government feelings of .irouth in Punjab. was installed in that state and I re member that- it was followed by a Sir I do not want to go into the period of peace for a shortwhile be details of the past events. The pain cause it was a government elected by ful memory of the November 1984 the people themselves. But the then riots is still with them. Yet they were Prime Minister having signed an agree betrayed by the Government. Subse ment with Mr. Longowal, reduc^ it quently the terrorists apf»‘oached the to a mockery. The public did cast public for their support. They told their votes in the hope that the elected the public that since the latter did not government would implement the pro follow their advice to boycott elec visions of the aforesaid accord under tions, Punjab could not get Chandi which Chandigarh was to be handed garh. over to Punjab before the 26th Janu We had given an assurance in our ary of the next year. It was also election manifesto that we would followed by the enactment of a drama annul the 59th constitution (Amend of appointment of a number of ment) and we fulfilled that assurance. commissions one after the other We wanted to hold elections there but with an assurance that the entire terri the misdeeds of the previous Govern tory of Fazilka and Abohar would be ment created such an atmosphere in handed over to Haryana. But since the State which was not conducive for there was no unanimity on this point, conducting free and fair elections. they chose to hold a referendum in That is why we had to introduce the Kandukhera. Inspite of that, neither 64th Constitution (Amendment) Bill. (-a?ilka and Abohar could be given The other side extended their co-ope to Haryana nor Chandigarh could be ration because they realised that the handed over to Punjab. After that a atmosphere was not conducive for new drama of constituting various elections. At that time the Governor commissions began. One such com of Punjab summoned all the MPs re mission recommended to give away presenting Punjab and the Congress 70 thousand acres i)f land to Haryana suggested tbe postponement of elec but a mention th rcof was not made tions in view of the prevailing situa in the accord. Even then no final solu tion. That is the reason why they su^ tion could be found out. Thereafter ported the Bill in Parliament. Also tine another commission was constituted elections were postponed for six with a direction that it was required months. We had thought that the to submit its report within 24 hours. situation woiild improve in the mean There could not be anything more time. And our hon. Prime Minister tunny than this drama because it was tried his best to restore noimalcy in the only event of its kind in the world. the StJte by going there 2-3 times and Can the people of Punjab ever forget building the confidence of the peojple. it? Inspite of all that, Chandigarh But the Congress (I)'s machinations could not be given to Punjab. After only made the situation worse. An all that the people of Punjab felt that party conference was organised here the Accord was an act of betrayal. to solve this national problem. We People of that state thought that shri need everyone’s co-opwation to res Barnala. whom they have praised tore no>-ma>cy in this border State. highly, had joined hands with shri. They went to attend that meeting but Rajiv Gandhi and that they could not later walked out when the final resolu expect justice from him. Neither tion was being passed. We never were they happy with that Accord received their oo-operation in this di nor were we. but the Government rection. This led to the woweoing of should hive implemented at least the situation. The jjresoat Oovero- some provisions of the Accord. Such ment is finding it difficult to undo « Com. (75tk Amend.) BUI A8VINA 9 ,1912 (SAKA) (Ameml, u f Art. m Motion to C o ld er the dunage 0Sh. Yamuna Prasad Shastri] ther six months. The Resolution was adopted and in no time six months “MiBdanatu neeti nipuna, yadi vas- tuvantu. elapsed. What were those circums tances? I quite remember when tije Laxffli Samavishatu, gachhatu va Government announced that elections yathcshtam.” would be held within those six mon ths. It was expected that the situa It means that the learned persons tion would improve. But the situa or policymakers may criticize us, tion did not improved, rather it dete O odd^ Laxmi may come and go and riorated further. The hon. Prime we may not be securing seats and Minister did a right thing by visiting votes—we arc the least boathercd about Punjab and announcing to undertake it a padayatra. He had to undertake his ‘'Adyaiva va maranmastu yugan- Padayatra in Punjab, but he was not tareva” able to pay a visit to the former Chief Minister of Haryana at Rohtak hos If we die today or even if after ages, pital. Just see. how the circumstances but are changing. While flying in the air, he is making an announcement that “Nyayata pathah pravichlanti, pa- President’s Rule would be extended dam na dhiraha." for 6 months only and dates of the P«opie with patience never deviate elections would also be announced from the path of justice and always simultaneously. Though he is giving want that every one should be treat^ a firm assurance, yet the Punjab situa justly. This means that elections tion is not so congenial there elec should be held and fear should be re tions could now be held in the State. moved from the minds of the people. 1 would like to know from the Gov Ao atmosjAere conducive to free and ernment whether it is so confident fair elections should be created. It is that the situation will improve before with this objective that this Bill has the polling date which the Govern introduced. So I would request ment is likely to announce today or the House and the Congress (I) in some ^ y s later. Is it so confident particular, to support this Bill in view that the situation would improve with of the problems being faced by the in a period of 3. 4, S or 6 months? people ai Punjab and the country as If it is not so, I would definitely like a whole. Even today Paki,stan is to say that Punjab situation has dete training terrorists and supplying arms riorated due to false and uncalled for to them. Can we afford to hold elec- announcements. It deteriorated due to dk>n$ in such a situation? The crisis lack of farsight on the part of politi in.f)m jab must be resolved and elec cians who are making unnecessary an tions held there at the earliest. Tt is nouncements and not fulfilling them. widi this objective that this Bill has If the youths of Punjab are sad to been introduced here and seeking your day. it is only due to these annoimce- Sfipport for the same I conclude my ments. The .BJP and the Left Parties S^ech, have all along been opposing the elec tions. Creating a congenial atmos PROF. PREM KUMAR DHUMAL phere in the State is the first and fore (ffamiriHir): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most requirement. It should first be it is very unfortunate to not hold ensured that the elections would be eleeticms in a democracy on time. But held free and fair. One of our hoti. it is |dl tiw more necessary that there friends cautioned tne that .in case elec dipuid be a congenml atmosphere for tions are held the BJ.P. would dnw hcliling free and fair elections. a blank. The C.P.I. might get 3-4 seats and the militants wouid ^ t 15- Six oKmtlts ago a Resolution was 20 seats. In this connection 1 would .brvjiq^-forward io the House for the lijce to rcitexate that it h^r^y m a t ^ ^jrtenrion of Resident’s Rule by ano whether we win or lose the elactioill, 49 C m t asth Amend.) BiU ASVINA 9,1912 {SAtU) { A ^ . Mothn to OmsUkr but it mtut be ensured that, the elec who defended the country iiniing th«lr tions are beld free and fair. It mwt service career and are pefepaied t i be ensured ^ t the people cast their serve die country in even u t it vote* fearlessly. Let one party cap ment. ture all the seats. It would make no difFerence for us. Why to take of six THE PRIME MINISTER (SfiRt mondu. let the elections be held to VISHWANATH PRATAP SINQIO; morrow. But there should be a con We had had long discussioBS witfi A s genial atmoshere. {Interruptions) ex-servicemen organisatim in ^lis connection. We have finalised neady I would like to quote a few lines from 85 per c«it of work, and we will «bo the artkde he wrote: do the remaining work very soon. It has been written therein that . {Interruptions) [English] PROF. PREM KUMAR DHU* MAL: I would like to express by “The previous regime was wicked. thanks to the hem. Prime Minist^ fOT The present is headless.” the reply he gave. (Interruptions) I don’t want to comment on this [English] since you arc restricting my time. SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV [Translation] (Tripura): Before deciding, you sho uld consult with your friendly parties, The present situation is more cri if not Congress Party. That is our tical than what it used to be earlier. request. The question of possession of AK-47 rifles by the militants was taken mto [Translation] consideration in 1989. It was estima ted that the militants would have been PROF. PREM KUMAR DHU- possessing above 575 or 600 rifles and MAL: I would like to make an earnest the present estimate i:> of 1700 rifles. request to Shri Sontosh Mohan Oev Of them, above 600 rifles have been not to bring party issue in ex-serviceh captured. When the militants poss men matters. One thing lor which essed above 575 rifles, the atmosphere 1 am very much worried'is what the was not conudered to be congenial former Prime Minister. Siri Rajiv for holding the elections, then how Gandhi had said that out Of I n i ^ does the ^vernm ent feel that the sanctioned by the Government, only elections could be held when the num 15 paise reach the actual benejktaries ber of rifles has gone upto 1700. and the remaining 85 paise are swind led away. It is a very disturbing The hon. Prime Minister is sitting equation. The Government shoala here. He is implementing the election take steps to reduce this gap. Ooe manifesto in a haste. There is one more thing is that earlier reeruitmeat more point which I expected from in the army used to bo made on 0ie Mr. Oiaudhry that he would basis of service rendered to the coun raise it. I had met the hon. Prime try and now a days it is done on po Minister in this connection during pulation basis. the last session. The point is about granting one rank—one pension to ex- 134)t ills. service men. There are a large num ber of ex-servtoemen in Punjab who The Youth of Punjab want to a.re pti^and to make every contribu join the army and pam-military tion for the country’s defence and for forces. I would therdf pPMf. Prem Kumar Dhumal] the President’s rule many tooes. Tbe last elected Assembly waa dissolved. iietter chances for joining the armed So> fte mistake that wc committed in forces. Given a chance, they would dissolving the Elected Government come forward in the service of the there and the Assembly there, for fliat couatry. They know how to handle we are paying a heavy price. Because weapons. They know how to fight for of that we have faced the situation of fhe couatry. uninterrupted President Rule there Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, 1 would and also we could not hold elections like to make yet another submission there and restore democratic process «iich is very important. Security belt there, it is not a very happy situa «t border has been constructed on tion. If at that time that mistake was a stretch of 120 kilometres onlj^ and not committed, then we would not a stretch of 280 kilometres remains to have to come before this House for be done. I learnt that even though tbe Seventh time to extend the Presi the Punjab Public Works Department dent's rule there. was prepared to take up the work of constructing the security belt, the Last time also, during the discus C.P.W.D. did not agree. I would like sion, we demanded that we should to urge the Government to complete try our best to see the revival of Ass tiie work on security belt at the ear embly and many people, I believe liest. (Interruptions) objected to that. Why did they do so? When we are all in favour of restora ■ It is a discussion on Punjab if you tion of democratic process and when do not understand, please sit down. on the other hand we had demanded {Interruptions) the revival of Assembly through a One more thing that 1 would like process of law, how is this considered to say is that we wclcomc the elec position to be taken by some people tions in Punjab. As and when elec I do not understand. It is not a very trons are held, the elected representa happy situation that again we are ex tives of the people should come to the tending the President’s rule. It can seat of power and solve people’s pro not be a permanent feature for Pun blems. I came to learn that proposals jab. Today or tomorrow, the elec have came from certain quarters that tions are to be held. But the moot dates of the elections should also be point is. whether we are really utilis announced. I cannot support this ing the extended time to create a si more. I feel that a congenial atmos tuation whereby free and fair elections phere should be ensured first so Aat will be possible. Whether this exten tree and fair elections could be held. ded time will be utilised properly by the Government, by the patnotic po I, on my own behalf and on behalf litical parties to organise and mobilise of my ^ r ty would like to support the people in order to put them into fight Resolution seeking extension of Presi- against the terrorists. That is a very [Sh. Saifuddin Choudhury] and are trying to destabilise our coun try. think that somebody will help you. The next day you lind that he is not With these words, 1 support this helping you. So, don’t run after an Bill and hope that all appropriate individual. You try to reach to the measures will be taken by the Govern people. In that way, 1 believe, all the ment to see that election could be political parties which abide by the held next time in Punjab. Constitution, which are in the best interest of the country, should jointly SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Mid- go there and use this time—not casu napore): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we ally—in solving this problem. This have set our time-table to complete Government has developed a very res this discussion and voting by 2.30 pectable goodwill among the people P.M. So, 1 think, it is time that we of Punjab. The visit of the Prime should keep that thing in mind and Minister created enthusiasm among try to be as brief as possible. the people over thc^c. So, We should MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank utilise this opportunity in solving this >ou very much. problem. Our approach has to be to mobilise those people who are patrio SHRI JNDRAJIT GUPTA: I will tic and direct them against terrorism. try to cooperate. But I did not find We have to remember that after sign you pulling up anybody as far as 1 ing the Punjab Accord a large num could observe. ber of people came out defying ter rorism; they all stood for elections. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He is That situation has to be restored by suggesting that I should pull up the honouring the provisions of the Ac Members. cord and taking certain uthei measu res. No confusing signal should go. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: My party will, of course, vote for this There are certain things which arc amendment, that is for the letter of coming in the papers. I have a me this amendment. But we are not in morandum with me submitted by favour {)f its spirit. If I could vote Mann Party (Akali Dal) to Mr. Kleik. in spirit, 1 vote against it. Why? Be Its copies are there. 1 believe that it cause we are convinced that these has come in the papers They have repeated doses of P.^esident’s Rule demanded self-determination. I have have become a chronic feature now in a copy of the daily Jaghuni dated 15th Punjab; it is not §oing to help im September, 1990. There interviews of prove the situation if we go on In the the terrorist leaders are given. They old way. I agree with what my are saying that they will take part in young friend Mr. Saifuddin Choudh the election; they will get their people ury has said. 1 would request gen elected in the Assembly. Atter tak tlemen of the Press sitting upstairs to ing oath, they will declare Khulistan. be a little indulgent and not to go Can we allow that to happen? It is on... really an unfortunate situation in a MR, DEPUTY SPEAKER: You State where people are fed up with should not have referred to them. terrorism. That due to our inelfici- ency, we had not been able to mobi SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Tliey lise them and help them to partici should not give an impression, as they pate in the democratic process defy go on giving, that the left parties par ing terrorism. So, these six months ticularly the two Communist Parties should be utilised for thai. During aie absolutely dead set apainst elec this period, you should take certain tions; they do not want elutions un measures and try to isolate terrorists der any circumstances like the BJP. from the masses and expose them who And they say that because the BJP are in league with foreign elements and the Left allies are taking a siand 57 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA) {Amend, of Art. 356) 58 Motion to Consider like that, therefore, the Prime Minis there will be no more President’s rule ter has no option Hut to go in for and we will go in for elections in six another spell of President's rule. months or betore six niontiis. nobody This is not our stand. We are fully in the Punjab will believe them. uware of the grave dangers, risks Therdore, 1 am appealing to the and hazards of holding an election Prime Minister, if he so thinks fit, in Ihf present situation of the Punjab. that on behalf of the Government, he There is no doubt about that. I do sht)uld make some positive, concrete not want to go into details. Every and specific response here in the body knows what the situation is. House and make it clear that they But you cannot take a one>sided view. arc gomg to hold elections by such What has happened o.n the other side? and such time. 1 do net say that There is a total alienation of the peo the dates should be mentions be ple taking placc because of the Presi cause they are not authorised to fix dent’s rule which the Punjab people the dale. That has to be done by the have begun to feel is going to be their Chief Election Commissioner. But lot for ever and they arc never goii^ it should be made categorically clear to be allowed to participate in this that within three months or four democratic process. This applies to months or five mouths the elec Sikhs. Hindus and everybody. And tions will be held and in this while we are very much concerned intervening period some concrete with the security of the common peo steps will be taken which last ple there, it is actually, I think, the time they did not take at all. They Sikhs now who are the worst victims extended the President's rule and went of terrorism. The people as a whole home and went to sleep. That way arc caught between two cross fires the situation is getting worse: it is from which there is no way out. not improving. And there is nobody One is the fire of terrorists and the in the Punjab, no representative of other is the excesses committed by the the people to whom anybody can go. security forces particularly Punjab To whom anybody can go with any Police. We know what they are grievance or representation when there doing Why should we try to hide is nobody there? The police rule this fact? You talk to anybody and bureaucratic rule is going on there and you will know that. So there. These ^ p le have now ac continuing with this President’s rule quired vested interst in seeing that without any other measures being this situation continues because it is taken simultaneously will not lead to a way of extorting money from in any improvement of the situation. We nocent people. Both the sides are arc for restoration of the democratic doing it. This is the way of being proces. but it requires the coopera able to make profit out of this big tion and a consensus between at least trade in drugs and narcotics going on all the major parties Without that, across the border. Everybody it is no use. nothing can be done. knows it. Of course, I agree that Therefore, this Constitutional amend hundred per cent sealing of the bor ment which we arc now bringing der may not be possible. But we .should not be seen as putting a fur were assured so many times in this ther brake on the democratic process. House that the wire fencing had It should be taken as a challenge, been completed in a considerable as an opportunity given for .six months portion of the border and what is re or less than six months. We are maining now will also be done. Biit not compelled to wait for six months even now we do not know when this to take some measures, to initiate work will be completed, ^ d thete democratic process and to improve is a constant movement going on of matters so that we can go for elec terrorists back and forth across the tions next time. At present. I am border. The number of AK 47s aware of tht fact that if the Oovera- which is available in the Punjab, I ment just gets up and says that yes. am* sure, is about five to ten tinMS 59 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 {Amend, o f Art, 356) 60 Motion io Consider [Shri IndrajH Gupta] what it was two years ago. Where to deal with such a situation. But at is it coining from? Therefore, 1 least people will feel that ‘we were *1- say that without some coiKrete mea> lowed to take part in a democratic sures being announced from now process and to elect our own represen that these six months or live mcmths tatives, whoever they may be’. That will be spent in carrying out these is not worse, it is better than what measures, there will be no improve is going on now. Therefore. I would ment and at the end of tliis spell of request the Prime Minister to make President’s rule we will lind ourselves it clear that wc are not in for this back to square one. Again wc will face kind of indefinite President’s Rule the same dilemma. It is a dilemma. It which is really playing havoc, which is a dilemma for all of us, we should will become another Kashmir, that admit the fact that if we go for elec is all. Punjab will become another tions, there is a big risk. If we don’t Kashmir. It is well on its way to go for elections and we go for Presi become another K^ashmir if we go on dent’s Rule, in my opinion a worse giving them the impression that they situation will be created. 1 am not will never be allowed to participate in scared of all this business, that all election. Therefore, Sir, some mea the seats will be captured by the ter sures have been suggested. I support rorists’ nominees and the new Punjab them. Every six months we not tioBs or coiic5lo8i [Translation] kind of a situation is existing not only in Punjab, but it is also existing in SHRIMATl BIMAL KAUR Jammu and Kashmir, in Assam and KHALSA: Sir, Member from Pun to some extent oven in Tamil Kadu. jab should also be given an opportu We should not forget it. We are forgett nity to speak. ing the root cause of all that. If you want to give some kind of a treat [English] ment to solve it temporarily, you cannot solve it. I want to express MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, through you to the Prime Minister and yes. to this Government that let them take some concrete measures to solve the DR. THAMBI DURAl: When wc root-cause of the terrorism. Let them passed the Punjab budget, at that solve the language problem. Let them time itself I disputed that we have solve the problems of minorities. Let not yet formulated any concrete steps them solve all those things. What are to solve the Punjab problem. Every the steps the Government has taken to time we are bringing Punjab budget promote the language erf Punjab and here and getting it passed. I said this to develop that culture? Also for last time also. the development of that State, what are the amounts you are allocating, what are the programmes you are Our Finance Minister when he was implementing? Therefore, when you in the Opposition, whenever this kind are not able to do all those things, of Punjab Budget was passed, used to you cannot bring peace in that area, express his concern that he wanted ■fhcn, once again you have to extend immediate elections in Punjab But the President's Rule. Therefore, ex this is happening now also. tending the President’s Rule is not tlie solution. The solution is to con Most of our political parties which duct the elections immediately to are represented here, they said tha' solve the Punjab problem. We have they >^ant elections immediately. ^ to know the feelings of the people of the same time they said that we are Punjab. In 1985 we conducted the unable to conduct the elections be elcwticns for the Lok Sabha and cause of the prevailing situations and the Punjab Assembly and also we that the elections should be postponed. conducted the 1989 elections for Lc* But my feeling is this excuse is always •Sabha. Then, what is the fear for beiiw ei^ressed in the House and having to postpone the elections in the Resident’s Rule in Punjab is be Punjab, I cannot understand. There- ing extended. Every time they are foie, whoever comes first to the dono- saying that terrorism is existing there cratic process as the peo{des’ itp n - and that because of the terrorist acti* sentative, we must welcome. Before vities the^ cannot conduct a free and ccmtesting. they are accqiting the c You are not giving proper empl< 9 - {Tramlatioril coent to Utem. So, whatever the ste ^ you have taken at that lime. I had SHRIMATI BIMAL KAUR requested that let the Govenunent come KHALSA; Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sk forward with a package of schemes. it is very sad that Governor's rule is When does the Government plan to continuing in Punjab for the past dues bring the Rigjit to Work? Have they and a half years and it has been k ^ t brought any Bill? They are so con- apart from the rest of the states. Gov cem d about Punjab to implement the ernment is not inclined to hold elec Presidents Rule there. When yon are tions in the Punjab. It is very unfortu holding a special Session for this, nate. why cannot you take up the Right to Work immediately and see that that bill is also passed in the same 1334 hrs. [DR. THAMBI DURAl House. Why can’t you do some in the Chair] kind of things to solve the problem of terrorism in the country? The Hon. Chairman, Sir, it is being said rion. Prime Minister is here. Let him that there is no peace in Pu .jib. take this kind of measure to bring Hence, elections cannot be held in ihis Right to Work Biil and try to Punjab. I would like to ask the Gov solve certain problems in this coun- ernment as to who is lesponsible for ti>. Without all these things, simply restoring peacc in Punjab? Does oui by talkmg about terrorism, you can constitution allow the persons who do not solve the problem. not maintain peace, to impose Presi Thirdly, 1 will say some thing dent rule permanently? If there are about the language. The hen. Home disturbances in all the stales, will Gov Minister is here, the hon. Prime ernment choose not to hold elections Minister is here. All the languages in to the Lok Sabha? Rules provide that the Eighth Schedule must be made elections to the Lok Sabha can be the national languages and also offi postponed only when emcigency has cial languages of this country. When been declared in the country. But you will do that, the confadence will Punjab has been continuously under be created among the people of this Governor's rule for the last four years, country and that kind of confidence though no emergency has been declar is more important. Whatever measu- ed there. In fact, it is bureaucracy and re.s you have taken to solve the eco police which is ruling there and nomic problems are not sufficient. police is implicating innocent youths in false cases and killing them. I 1 wanted to speak more, but, there would like to give some CAamples. is not much time left because many Three mcmths ago two youths named Members are yet to i.peak. Fhe hon Harpal Singh Man and Baljeet Sing^ Prime Minister has said that he will Bhutto of Ajmer tour were shot undertake a march in Punjab to meet by the mlice in broad daylight. When the people, to tind out the problems this incident came to our notice. I in person. It is not necessary. The myself and two of our colleagues went ftroblems of the people of Punjab there to see the Governor. After hear « t known to everyone. There are ing our complaints the Governor as siniikr problems in other regions of sured us that an open enquiry in this this oousAry. These problems must regard would be completed within be sohn’ed by taking necessaiy action three day$. Rut it is very unfortunate by this Govenunent. Election is the that the Governor has no say in face only solution. In order to respect of police because the enquiry has the democratic rights of the Punjab not be«) completed even after (bree pe^e. 1 request the hon. Prime months. We met Governor later also Minister to sec that elections mtist but nothing couki he done so fcr. take i^ace as early as possible in Here one more example can be cited. Punjab. The Police killed one boy Kolwant 67 Const. (75th Amend.) BHi OCTOBERj,!, of Art. 35S) m ,» 'ty Motion to Consider [Smt. Bimal Kaur Khalsa] tijan two months have passed but no just at a distance of hundFed case has been registered. 1 btoi^t yaid from our house. His fault was this case to the notfce of the Hon^le t^ t he was riding a scooter with two Home Minister and told him about other boys. When police order^ them the misbehaviour of a DSP with an to stop, they obeyed. The police sear M.P. But it is very sad that no action ched them and started beating them. has been taken on it so far. When When police was beating him, his Dr. Rajvans of internal vigilance was turban and chappals fell down there. marked this case for enquiry, he took When the police men were taking the the evidence of people and asked the boys into their van, one of the boys DSP about his behaviour with an managed to run away. The Police M.P. He admitted everything. Dr, chased him and fired at him. He was Rajvansh was supposed to sent that shot dead at a vacant plot. When I report to centre within two days but came to know about it 1 reached there that report has not reached there as within ten minutes. There DSP mis yet. Later it was learnt that the case behaved with me which everybody iiad been filed and Dr. Rajvansh of knows. DSP asked us to take internal vigilance who was posted at away the dead body ot that boy. We Ciiandigarh had been promoted and told him that wc would not lift that posted at Jallandhar as SP. Do you dead body from there until he told us want to extend President's rule so tiiat as to whose body it was and wiiy bureaucracy and Police may rule the they had killed him. He replied that state and kill the innocent boys? Two though he knew as to who was that years back a boy named Indermohan boy but he would not tell about him. of Ludhiana was picked up from his We told him that we would not house. When his parents asked about allow them to lift the body from there. his whereabouts, they were told that In ^ t e of informing him about my he would reach his home after fifteen being a Member of Parliament and days. But 1 am pained to tell you telling him my authority to enquire that more than two years have passed about the dead boy, he did not oblige but no information is being given and rudely told me that he did not about that boy. There are so many care for an M.P. Anybody could be other incidents which have gone un come an M.P. Even his constable noticed or are bemg suppressed. could become M.P. He told me that he was not afraid of any enquiry either Some parties are apprehensive of from centre or state. Many enquiries their total defeat, so they are oppo were held in Punjab hut nothing could sing the elections in Punjab. They do be done. After that they forcibly took not have any right to speak in the -away the dead body. A revolver was matters of Punjab because they have k ^ near his body, which was brought no following in that state. They want there after half an hour of killing. At that elections should not be held there. ■the time of firing he was not holding It is being said that elections^an be anything and he had nothing to reta held there only at the gunpoint. But liate. When they took him forcibly the 1989 elections for Lok Sabha has everybody was panicky. The people proved that their claim is not correct who had assembled there, were bea During Elections not at a single un ten with the rifle butts. When we went toward incident happened tiiere as it to the Police Station to register this was in the other states. case the SSP and the DC were pre When Shrimati Saklibuns Kaur sent there, we told the DC that this Bhindar who won the election in the boy was running empty handed and year 1985 on the ticket of the Con- was ciying that he had not done any gressO) had secured 1 lakh 80 thou thing and the people were eyewitness sand votes but this time she has won to it but the policemen murdered him. within a m ar^ ^ 2 lakhs 26 thou Even after narrating all these facts sands votes. Has she got there votes they refused to register the case. More on gun point? 69 Omt. Amml.) Bm ASVINA 9,1912 (SAKA) {Amatd. of Art. 356} TO Motion to Consider la 1915 «leatkias. CPI ai^ CP1(M) have imposed ban on Govarnment secuted two lakh votes in Punjab jobs. Therefore. I want that the ban wbereaa is 1989 they secured three on Government jobs should be Itfted votes. How did they secure these immediately ...... ♦...... one lakh votes on gun point? Secondly, the Minister of Fore- [English] ign Affairs. Shri I.K. Gujral has won dection from Jallandhar Parliamen- m r . CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go tary Constituency in Punjab. Our on record. Now Shri Kapil Dev psrty as also the Sikh Students Fede- tri will speak. ration had fully supported him. So I would like to ask the Government tTranslalion'l whether Shri I.K. Gujral has been ap- pointed as the Minister of Foreign c h a u t p i Affairs for winning eleciion on gun DfcV SHASFRI point? Such propaganda Is being made ^ - Sir. to postpone the elections and to bring 2 00 P M I h rJf • this Amendment. It is being said that J-OO RM., I will be brief in my sub atmosphere in Punjab is not condu cive to holding elections. Earlier also . the Amendment was made to extend . ' t“Hy acquainted with the situa- President’s Rule in Punjab for six *»on in Punjab and whatever I will months. Therefore, I would like to ...... know as to what steps were taken by the Government to restore normalcy yjR i BHAJAN LAL (I'aridabad)' in Punjab? Can die Government say Will be the truth, it confidently that ...... SHRI KAPIL DEV SHASTRl: I ^ ® ■* will speak the truth only. Regarding MR. CHAIRMAN: Madam, please i would like to say that our tike your seat now. You have already Government will have to adopt a poli- taken 10 minutes. 9 different from the one we have been following io far. Till now live Govem- [I'ranslcaion] ments have been dismissed in Punjab— Shri Prakash Singh Badal's Govem- SHRIMATI BIMAL KAUR ment was dismissed fwice iuid the KHALSA: Now President's Rule is Governments of Justice Ciuruam Singh, being extended for another six months. Lakshman Singh Gill and Surjeet so will it bring peace in Punjab? The Singh Beniala were dismissed and the Government does not want to bring cntiie country know as. to who was peace in Punjab. Besides holding elec- responsible for the dismissal of these Qons, the Government have to take Governments. We were not reiipnnsible certain other measures also. The for that. At present there is no one Government ^ould immediately rele- in Punjab with whom the Government ase all the youth who have bwn de- can initiate u dialogue. Drastic dian- tained without any cases against them, ges have taken place since the dismis- Now-a-days, every Sikh is looked saJ of the Surjeet Singh Bcrnala Gov- upon wifli a sus^cious eye. Earlier eminent in Punjab. In this changed the recruitment of Sikhs in Army was scenario, there is no one in Punjab 60 pw cent, but now it Jjas been re- with whom the dialogue can be initiat- duced to 10-12 per cent. J would like ed. Some people say that the Prime to know th« t«asons for it. There is Minister does not initiate dialogue with large scale unemidoyment in Punjab, them, but whom should be Prime Educated yoi^th are wandering in Mini.stcr talk to? Who is their itpn- iouch ci jobs. But the Government sentative and that is the main bundle •Not recorded. 7J Const. {75th Amend) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 {Amend, of Art. i55) 72 Motion to Consider [Sh. Kapil Dev Shaslri] of all the agreements. Earlier also in Punjab. Whatever Shri Simranjeet f spoke on Punjab probkm I Singh Mann says is not his own view, given details about them. Till he says so under the pressure of these agreements have been signed terrorists. Shri Prakash Singh Badal J?g»™ng Faalka—Abohar and also gives statement under the fear of ^handigarh and four agreements have these terrorists. Under such circum- signed regarding water. 1 have stances the only alternative left with complete records of all the agreements, us is to hold elections. Our Govern- ^ 9^ Haiyana San- ment should take such courageous step Samiti m which all such things and hold elections in Punjab and who^ discussed, pierefore, I would soever wins, the power should ht hand- solution to ed over to him. When the people all problem is elections. The over the country eat the foodgrains produced by Punjab and Haryana, why hold elections in Punjab we hesitate to hand over power to ne has taken the decision to extend the people of Punjab? They are our PresiJenl s Rule in Punjab, own people and ihey cannot go against uh. The> talk about Khalistan but One more thing I would like to say when the Sikhs come to power that is that if elections are held there would automatically be a Khalistan. neither Congress nor BJP-Janata Dal How will you deter them, the rule of will come to power. Only the Akalis Sikhs is bound to come there. whichever faction it may be will form So far as the question of uneinploy- Government there. You talk about ment is concerned, it is not the pro- elections on gun |wint, but 1 would blem of Punjab alone. The unemployed you the instances of last youth all over the country are wan- elections. Dictates were issued by the dering here and there in search of job. terrorists to the voters that brfore 1 was also one of the participants in <^ting their votes they had to show the meeting held at Akal Takht in ballot ^ p c r to their agents sitting whkh the decision to separate Haryana piling booths. No one could from Punjab was taken. It was decided disobey their dictates. It hap- in the meeting that Fa/ilka—Abohar in Bihar also and now it is being be handed over to Haryana but no deci- ixjuntry. Though sion in respect Chandigarh was taken things are there, yet we should in that meeting. Mr. Chairman, Sir, scared of holding elections. Shri Bhajan Lai is sitting in front of me, he has made efforts to transfer four villages of Haryana lo Rajasthp. One thing more i wduW like to n y four villages of Rajasthan lo Punjab is that wc have been discrimiaated in Faalka Abohar to Haryana. ,especi of sharing of watcj-s. The canal Had It teen done at that time the pro- }s being constructed by the Central blem of terrorism m Punjab would Government, but its construction have been solved to a great extent. If should be completed before holding Fazilka- Abohar are given to Har- elections in Punjab. I would like to con- yana, the flow of arms to the terrorists vcy to the hon. Prime Minister my fecl- trom Rajasthan would be storped. ings through you that if the con^c- r,"5- '■?'"'?? ■“ iiSirX.'SthM S/SSSK.'K C liMd^arh which IS a Lnion Territory. to have our share of water from it of discrinOnation at tile Terntory, the problem of Punjab hands of Punjab Government, would not have deteriorated to this * ,. , . , , . 1 would conclude after making one The third question relates to sharing more submission. The Uailway Coach of water. I have got with me the records Factory which has been set up at 73 Const. (fSth Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9,1912 (SAKA) (Amind. of Aft. SSS) 74 Motion to Cmtsiekr iCapurthala in Punjab was lo be dven I.ast time, when President’s rule to Haryuna. Similarly special CSPF was extended, in this House the Prime and BSF Units were given to Punjab, Minister had said that six montiu Many such concessions have been given the outer limit and that elections will tv Punjab but the only thing which is definitely be held in six months and not being given to them is the self-rule. from time lo time whether it is Mr. Therefore if the Govwnment also give Gujral in Jullundur. whether it is them the right to self rule by holding Mr. Bhupinder from the Sou^, elections, the problem will automati whether it is Mr. Devi Lai in Baoga- cally be solved and there will be no lore or the Prime Minister whether trouble in Punjab. it was in Boeing aircraft in Punjab, had maintained that elections will be With these words I conclude. held. But these pronouncements had no action. [t'n,?/oA] I am not going to say whether I SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR would support this amendment or (Gurdaspur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is oppose it till the Prime Minister has very unfortunate that today again we told us what steps he is going to are discussing the extension of l^esi- take in the next six months to ensure dent’s rule. The Government, it that free and fair poll can beheld. seems, does not have much time for You have just said that you are bring Punjab and unfortunately today even ing an amendment for the next six the House does not have time for months. That means nothing because Punjab. The Prime Minister has said as somebody earlier had said the peo that he has to bring this Bill because ple of Punjab are not willing today the BJP and the Leftist parties want to believe what the Government says extension of President’s rule. because you go back on everything that you have said. THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH). We would like to know from the They are all for election and democra Prime Minister. The Home Minister, tic process. I want to dispel this of course, does not bother. So he left. wrong impression. There should be But thank God, the Prime Minister no allegations against the BJP and the is here. We would like to know fiDtn Left parties. Here we are all for elec the Prime Minister what steps you tion and the conditions for fair and contemplate in the next six months or flee election should be created and three months or two months, what political initiative should be taken and ever it is. I am just waiting for the economic packages should be there in Prime Minister’s attention. this region as also contact with the masses. They are all for democratic THE MINISTER OF FINANCE process in Punjab. They are not rPROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): 4gainst the election as such. In this He is thinking whether he should res present fwsition, tt»re is certain advice pond. but not just to postpone and sit idle. That is not their advice. We have to SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR: ahead with the people. That is the I know he must try. I would be very position. That is the condition. glad if he would. But what we have seen in'the last six months is the SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR: situation has gone from bad to worse. I am very glad to hear this and it has The Congress Government, under been veiy sound advice. It is vtiy the Prime Ministership of Shri Rajiv sound advice from the Leftists and the Gandhi, had made certain eftom. and BJP ^ I hope the Prime Minister had taken certain action, to bring peace «od his Govennneat will pay attention to Punjab. I do not say that w w«9 to thb. successful. 75 Const. (75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER }, 1990 (Amend, o f Art. 356) 76 Motion to Consider [ I'raitslation] [ hen after that, he went again to Amritsar -not in an c ^ n jeep. Thw* SHRI KALKA DAS (Karol Bagh): was security. I do not know >»^ieth«r He visited Puitjab at least once but the Prime Minister is aware of i t the previous Prime Minister did not There was like a total curfew in visit even once to bring peace to \mritsar. Then again he came back, Punjab. he said something, he said someddng SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR; on board the aircraft But unfortu Please listen. nately. nothing haj^wned. And the sad part of it is that only three [English] 'vecks ago. when the Punjab Budget was being discussed here and Prof. 1 would like to draw ihe littention Dandavate was here, i think, every of the Prime Minister to the fact that body asked: “What are you doing during the Congress regime certain about Punjab?” Not a word. The steps and actions were taken. The Government was absolutely mum. conditions in Punjab hud iniprcved. After eight months of rule, the Gov The law and order situation had im ernment, perhaps, did not know what proved with the result Lok Sabha the conditions in Punjab were. And elections were held. There is. of the Prime Mini.ster very kindly said course, difference of opinion ho.v they that he would undertake a Podyatra were held, whether there was rigging to Punjab to find out fiom the peopto or not. i»f Punjab what they wanted. It is MR. CHAIRMAN: 1 request the a sad state of affairs if the Prime hon. Members to keep silcnce. Minister does not know about the conditions in Punjab. He had to go to SHRIMATI SUKHBUNS KAUR: Punjab on a Padyatra to find out They have been always referring to from the people of Punjab to know my victory as an example of Ihe fact what the conditions in Punjab were. that there was no rigging. But after At the fag end of the Session, MPs that the new Government took over. from Punjab were called. As I told ♦he Prime Minister it is better late 14.00 h is. than never. The manifesto of the National Front had said that peace woulil be brought [Tran shit ion] to Punjab witoin fifteen days. And may be that is why, the country voted In the end they called us to listen for the Government hoping that Pun to our view«. jab which had been suffering for a long time would see s<'me {leace, [English] some calm. But unfortunately, in spite of the fact that the Prime Minister went to Amritsar in an open jeep-- That meeting carried on and if 8 very nicc gesture there is no doubt 1 remember, it was forced to about it- he seemed to have won carry on. It was not finished. It is the hearts of people of Punjab and still hanging. We have not been Sikhs in particular, what happened called again. I do not know what after that? The Government goes to happened to that meeting. Three sleep. Nothing happened after that, weeks ago. Government did not know no acticMi. May be they were too whether they could hold electioos or busy with their internal problems. I could not hold elections. But I would can appreciate that. But Punjab is like to know what had happened a bigger problem than the problems within three weeks that suddenly you within the party—whether one is a made up your mind that you c o ^ leader or the other one is a leader, not hold electionl. We want that doirs not matter. The Punjab I think, dection is ^ best should have got the first ptionty. that can happm to Punjab. Of dtilirsS, 77 Const. (7Sth AmemL) BiU ASVINA 9, t912 (SAKA) (Amend, qf Art. 356) 78 Motion to Consider the PriiM Minister said that the con What has haj^ned to all the arms ditions m. Punjab were not ripe for that arc coming in? holding elections. Why are the caa- ditipns not conducive for holding elec- ti(M|# What has this Govemm«at One Governor was sent there; he done for the last nine months? If was sacked and another one was sent. you look at the figures...... {Interrup In the beginning we have read a lot tions) I will just take two more minu of statements from the Governor that tes. May be this is one opportunity he will do this or he will do that; when the Prime Minister and the but now that man is very quiet. I Home Minister ere listening togethei don't know what has haf^ned to to what we thtak about Punjab. him. May be with the extension of the In the beginning of the last year, in President’s rule another Governor 1989. the killings used to be around will be sent. What directions arc you !,evenly. I do not have the correct giving to the Governor or to the figures. Therefore, I would stand cor administration to do or not to do rected if anybody corrects me. Today something? they are double. According to the information supplied by the Govern People are suffering in Punjab. ment of Punjab, 1600 civilians have Mi . Prime Mini.ster. The conditions been killed including -lOS security offi m Punjab are very bad. Please for cials. 879 terrorists have been killed. heaven’s sake, for the sake of the Last year, may be there were 300 country and for the sake of the j^ - terrorists. When this Government has ple of Punjab--you have said time come, suddenlv more terrorists aret and again that your heart bleeds for sprouted up. Why has the Govern the people of this country—do some ment sat back to think about it? thing about Punjab; please let us Why is this happening? Why are more know what you want to do about people becoming terrorists or so- Punjab, what steps are you going called terrorists as you say? Why are to take about Punjab. I can assure they feeling that they have arrested you thal the people want a democra 1323 terrorists? I would like to know tic set up; people want a self-elec^ from the Government what was the Government and we al«o would like reason for increasing the number of to see that the Government does terrorists? Is there something wrong something. As 1 said before, we are with your policy? TTiere must be crushed from berth the sides—from something wrong somewhere either the lerrori^ts or the pef>ple who are with the administration or with the killing civilians and on the other hand Dolicy. I do not actually blame the from the administration. The condi district administration or the Punjab tions In Punjab, particularly in flie administration because they will do border areas, are very very bad. I what you tell them to do or may be request you to take certain measures what you tell them not to do. Soon and announce them here as to what after taking over there was a sort you are going to do, so that we can of relaxation in the administration hold the elections. which you have not been able to con trol till today. What are the steps MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Prime that you are going to take to ensure Minister is going to intervene now. that the killings come down whether it is of these terrorists or the so-call- ed terrorists—I don^ know who the SOME HON. MEMBERS: W© may terrorists arc? There used to be such also be given some time before the a hue and cry from the Opposition Hon. Prime Minister speaks. benches about fake encounters. How are these people killed today? Are MR. CHAIRMAN: It is only the these not encounters? Today have intervention. I am going to call odiers they become «emiine encotmfers? also later. t n r m m 79 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 {Amen4. o f Art. 356) «) Motion to Consider SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP chancc to speak, now listen to me. SINGH: Let the hon. Members from When you don’t have the courage to Punjab speak first: I will speak later. face the truth you can in no way do good to the country. The welfare of the [Tramlation] country lies in this that we accept the truth and reality with open heart and S. ATINDER PAL SINGH faith. The people who are struggling (Patiala): Mr. Chairman, Sir, today in Punjab these days are as good citi the most shameful and distressing zens of this country as you and me day for the democratic and elected who are sitting here. How can you parliamentary system. In this House, discriminate them? How can you which is called temple of democracy push them before the police. How we are going to pass a constitutional can you subject them to the bullets... amendment bill to suspend the demo (Interruptions)... If you can give full cracy. freedom to Police in Punjab, then we too have got the same right to live Mr. Chairman, Sir it appears as if as you have. Even if a goat is con entire India has decided to hand over fined in a slaughter house it also re Punjab to police for good. It appears sists the butcher’s knife. Keep this thing as if entire India has negotiated a always in mind. Every problem in Pun bargain with the bureaucracy that the jab, such as water or linguistic area massacre of sikh youths will be con problems or the problem of Chandi tinued in Punjab. It appears as if garh have become secondary. Now the whole of India has decided to hand citizen of Punjab who is a citi/en of over Punjab to paramilitary forces for India is struggling for his constitu spreading lawlessness there. Mr, tional rights. The citizen of Punjab is Chairman, Sir, ] would like to ask himself is raising the issue of his rights. all the citi/ens of this country, 7 here won*f be any solution in Punjab who believe in dcnuKiJc> why aftei unless you give them their ri^ ts. The all they have given this .special status confidence of Punjab is difficult to to Punjab? We have been demanding be won over unless the country has special status lor Punjab and the spe some faith and confidence in its cial status which you have given to people. Govelgian approach has Punjab includes massacre and discri been adopted in the whole of In mination in the constitutional and le dia and the confidence of sikh com* gal system. This is such a system munit> is difficult to be won over if which is opposed moM by the peo thev are slandered. You yourself are ple ol Punjab. On behalf of the peo maintaining distance from them. The ple of Punjab and sikh community all House has to see how the sikhs can the work! over, I would oppose this come closer. The sikhs will come closer amendment in this House even upto when attempts will be made to bring the last drop of my blood. I want to them closer. 1 want to tell the entire tell the people of India that the peo nation through this House that this ple of Punjab can’t be won over time more than fifty per cent of the through Police rule or through the strength of B*S.F., more than seventy barrel of the gun or any other method. per cent of the strength of CR.P.F. Until this country fulfils its promises and Maharashtra Police etc., are work the confidence of the people of Punjab ing in Punjab. Whenever there is a can’t be won over. I want to make move to make some changes in the it clear that the people of Punjab have Punjab Police Administration, it is all alone been expressing their faith said that Punjab' Police will be demo in India, Now they have to think be ralised. I want to submit to the gov fore expressing their faith once again. ernment and the Prime Minister that PIc3se don’t take such an action by there is no question ot demortifi^on which...... {Interruptions) of a force which is devoid of mora lity. Disciplinary system is Mr. Khurana, you have got the to deviate the morale of Mcimty 81 Cami. (7 M Amend,) Mill ASViNA % 1912 (SAKA) (Amend. tifArt. 3St^) 82 Motion to Consider iorces. Punjab PoUce and para-miiitary find a solution to this problem, they forces are driven to lawlessness should call the struggling youth andi because of lack of discipline. Tiio&e talk to them and recognize their who are lawless can’t be demoralised litical leadership. I oppose wis because they are already demoralised. amendment tooth and nail and walk If the government wants to regain the out of the House. confidence of the people of Punjab then this House should observe si* lence for two minutes to express re 14.19 fars. Ail Ihh si age, S A tinder gret for the happenings of 1984. In SinKli left the House. order to gain the confidence of Pun jab. the Prime Minister should this time make an announcement of elec MR. CHAIRMAN: 1 want to re tions in Punjab. If this House wants quest all the members to be very to win the confidence of the people brief. We have already Committed there, an announcement should be that it would be over before 2.30. made that all the sikh women and If you aie taking more than the allott youth would be released, as more than ed time, then it will be very diiBcult 250 women arc arrested and cases for U.S to complete it. Therefore, I registered against them. If the gov request othei members to be very ernment wants to gain the confidence of briel. the people of Punjab it should tone up the administration, and police admi [ /'ran.slanion] nistration and assert its powers more firmly. SHR] MADAN LAL KHURANA (South Delhi): I have a point of or der. In this House, which is the sup Mr. Chairman, Sir, in the end reme body of India, we can deliver r would like to tell the government speeches within peiiphery ot our con and the entire nation through this stitution, but in our speeches we House that this amendment will should not speak like * ...... ’ and strengthen the separatist tendencies in this should not form a part of the this country. 1 want to inform the proceedings. What will be the effect whole nation through you that you of such words on the posterity when can’t bring Punjab closer by this, in they will .see that the people are de stead they will go away from you. 1 want tO' say that I would oppose this manding a separile constilulion and amendment even upto the last drop a separate symbol So we want a ruling from you whether such words of my blood. On behalf of the people should be allowed or not? of Punjab and on the strength of tbe mandate gjven by them. I demand SHRI JAG PAL SINGH (Hardwar): .If you can’t give, wo &hall take How for this is correct when you are to a course by which we would get our talking of a Hindu nation? Uiuentip' rights This is what the people of tions) Punjab are doing these days. If some solution to this problem is to be [Ensiish] found that government shall have to talk to the people because of whom MR. CHAIRMAN: Please listen this problem has arisen. This is be to me. In the hon. Member’s speech, yond my comprehension and the if there is an> thing which is again$t comprehension of the nation why the the constitutional provisions, it would government avoids talking to them. not go on record. So it is not possible to find a solu tion by keeping those very people SHRI INDER JIT (Darjeeling): aside who ai« tile reason of that Mr. Chairman Sir, it ii> a matter of problem. If the govenmient wants to tragedy and pity that we are having to » trsl a<» ordered by the Chair. 83 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 (Amend, o f Art. 3SS) 84 Motion to Consider [Sh. Inder Jit] tended but also make a specific anno uncement giving specific date* by extend the President’s Rule once again which the elections will be hekl early in Punjab. Last time, whoi the Pre next year. sident's Rule was extended, the House had agreed in full that there would Lastly, in view of the shortage of be no further extension. Now that time. 1 would like to make <»ie other we are coming forward with another point. There has been a lot of talk extension. I would appeal to the Prime about promoting the political process. Minister to make a solumn commit Nothing has been done so far. Be ment to his House that there will fore we can promote the political pro be no further extension be>ond cess, we have to inspire confidence these six months. The tragedy is that among the people of the State and the last six months have been lost to for this, several measures will have to tally with no policy. Virtually, no be taken. An economic package, a poli thing has been done daring the last tical initiative and above all. somethinjg six months which needed to be done. will have to be done to end the irri Mr. Chairman Sir. wc a'l know tants. In Punjab, people are still very that the situation in Punjab has sour over the fact that nothing has greatly deteriorated mainly. This is been done about those who indulg so because Pakistan hias stepped up its ed in the 1984 carnage in Delhi activities across the border. And in and elsewhere. I think immediate this context, I think, it is an absolute steps have to be taken to remove the scandal and a matter of great shame irritants. Finally. I would like to say that little has been done so far to seal that since wc are going in for Presi the border. The border must be seal dent’s Rule, we should try to bring ed and fully sealed on a war-footing. about some institutional arrangement, Even today, there are 230 kilometres go in for some innovation so that— of border which has still to be given even though we do not have a Vidhan barbed wire fencing. We have so far Sabha—we can give the people of the provided full barbed wire fencing for State some kind of an involvement in only 120 kilometres and another SO the President's Rule. Therefore, my kilometres of low barbed wire fen specific suggestion is that just as we cing. 230 kilometres are still to be have a Council of Ministers normally fenced not including the riverine belt. in an elected Assembly, we should Mr. Chairman Sir, it is my view think in terms of a Council of Advi and also the view which has been sors who should exercise virtually as shared by lots of people in Punjab that much power. This would be one way we can seal the border effectively, of associating the people also. The we would have taken care of at least Prime Minister should make this an 50 to 75 per cent of our terrorists nouncement here. Even as the peo problem in Punjab last July, there ple of Punjab are asked to accept the were something like 571 AK-47 rifles President’s Rule for another six in Punjab. This is according to offi months, they should be assured that cial sourceis with whom 1 had an oc there would be some association of the casion to lalk to in Chandigarh. The popular will at the level of the Go number his increased from 571 to vernor. something like 1700 AK-47 rifles in one year, not to mention rocket laun [Tran^atiori^ chers, mines and so on. And, this SHRI KIRPAL SINGH (Anirlt- excludes 600 AK-47 rifles which have sar>: Mr. Chairman, Sir. I thank you been captured. Therefore, my first for giving me an opportunity to point is we must seal the border on speak. Firstly. I would like to sub a warfooting. My second point is. as 1 mit that the Amendment, which has have said, the Prime Minister shouW been brought here, suppresses the not only make a solemn commitment views of peace-loving people of Punjab that President’s Rule will not be ex more so, because this ameadnent it 85 Const, (7Sth Amend.) BUI ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA.) of Art. 86 Motion to Consult not at all justified in the present Cir same injustice is taking place. Today, cumstances as whatever is happenmg discussion is going on in this House in Punjab is not new. Just now, one on the Bill to extend President’s Rule of my friends raised an objection that in Punjab and it is being said tiiat it what S. Atinder Pal Singh said here will be for a very brief period. It is was against the constitution. I am not good to treat it as a small matter quite surprised to hear that. While and to give it a casual treatment If this issue was going on, the Members this process continues, it can be dan belonging to one party said that they gerous for Punjab as well as the coun will accept the decision of the Sup try as a whole. All of the Punjabi reme Court regarding water dispute, Members, whether they belong to the but they were levelled as the enemies ruling party or the Opiwsition have ex of national integration. Are the peo pressed the view that election in Pun ple who say that they will not accept jab should be held immediately. In the decision given by the court on Punjab, elections were never held on Ramjanmabhoomi Babri Miisjid dis gun^int. Elections were held on gun pute patriots or devotees of Lord point in the Constituency of our for Rama? Do the people, who s [Sh. Kirpal Singh] credibility of this Government amon gst the people of Punjab can be main people of Punjab, who ccmstitutc 90 tained, With these words, under duress to 99 per cent of population of the and compulsion 1 support this amend State. Therefore, I don't want to be ment. a party to this crime. Congress? Gov ernment was instrumental m stalling MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We this crime, but I regret that even the had decided that we will take up Ad people like Shri V. P. Singh are vying journment Motion at 2.30 P.M, Now. lor the support of the Congress Party, is is already 2.30. In fact we have gone f'he list of stories of their atrocities beyond 2.30 hourii. are so long that even the devil wiil bow his head before t'nem. It is u SHRI RAJ DEV SINGH (Sangrur): matter ol surprise that a poison like Sir. since 1 belong to the State of Shri V. P Singh has to bow before Punjab, which is being discussed now, them. It is really shameful that a poi I would like to express ni> views also. son ot his stature bus to tow the line of the Congress for some votes. I MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: J can don't want to be a pa;t> to this act. give only two-three minutes to each 1 have spoken my hourt out. With Member. these words, I thank you very much. SHRI HARBHAJAN LAKHA }(Phillaur): Sir, I am here to bring [Enf^lish] the voice of Punjabee people but J SHRI NANI BHAriACWARYA am never given a chance. Last time (BerUampore): Mr. C’h.iiinian. Sir, 1 'also 1 was not given the chance. I am not going to repeat what has been am also the Chiet Whip ol my p.uty. said by my colleagues Shri Indeiajit You want the Chief Whip to main Gupta and Shii Saifu Win Choudhury tain discipline but you have never By and large I shjic iheir views. I .mjintained discipline. 1 requested you would like to say that it would have last time also been better if this amendment was not moved and we could have hold the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You elections in Punjab. can speak now. 14.31 hrs. [MR. DbPUTY SPEAKER PROF. SAfF-UD-DIN SOZ (Bara- in the Chair] mulla): Sir, in order to save time, With the hcav) hcait and under let them speak together. the compulsion ol ci’vumstanccs we have to support this amend [JianAlCition] ment and, therefore, we are support ing it. But in the spiiit of the Cons SHRI HARBHA.IAN LAKHA titution, we arc opposed to this amend (Phillaur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you very much for allowing me ment. We do not want the President's to express my views. Rule in any State particularly in the State of Punjab. But the siti;ation is such that neither the (jo\crnment in Sir, Punjab constitutes two per cent of population of this couiUry. There the Centre nor the noiificai parry in power in Punjab coulJ creatc the con is no casteism or untouchability in the State and the people are living ditions where there could he free and fair elections t'lere 1 endoise the *with amity and brotherhood. On the contrary, there is constant increase ia submissions of C PI and CPKM) in this regard when they say thjt along with ‘untouchabilily and hatred among the the extension of Pn^sident’s Rule, wc ’people in other parts of the country. should put all our eflorts to change J Sir, in Punjab, the Gurus taught the climate of Punjab by developing the people to live with the feelings of a sense of security in them, so that the brotherhood and they are abiding by 89 Const. (7 m Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9, 1912 ^S4KA) (Amend, of Art. 356) 90 Motion to Consider them. 90 per cent Sikhs of Punjab you go through the records, you will gave sacrifices for the independence find that no killing took place for one of the countiy, but today when they month following the Lok Sabha elec- are demanding independence, they are tions in Punjab. Killings might have a mockery of them. taken place before the" elections, but during the elections, not a single per* Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, on the son was killed. You can go through 11th of May, 1987, the Piesident’s the records and check it. In other Rule was imposed in Punjab and in States of the country, elections are doing so. a lot of injustice was done held on gun-point But Punjab has a to the people of Punjab Before that, record that no killing took place dur an all pirty meeling \v.is held on the ing the elections. Who says elec 3rd of May. in whicii it was promi tions in Punjab was; a fraud? I have sed that electioni will be held in Pun been elected through election only. jab within six months. It was announ Two Members of ihe Congress Party ced by the Hon. Prime Mini.ster. but have also won the election from there. what happened to that announcement? One candidate of the Bharatiya Janata You are knowingly deceiving Punjab,' Party, who was to contest the election because you had promised that Presi from Hoshiarpur. withdrew from the dent’s Rule would be extended for contest after taking some money. A only six months and not for a year Member, belonging to the Congress and thereafter democracy would be Party secured 70 thousand votes restored in Punjab Was it not said and now the same people say in this P.'irliament that elections would that the situation in Punjab be held in Punjab within six months? very bad. Who says that the We started preparing for the elections situation in Punjab is bad? I urge and the Government went on playing the Hon, Prime Minister to withdraw jokes on iis. Previously, the Congress ihis amendment and order elections In Government cheated the people of Punjab I would say that nothing ser Punjab and now, for the last 10 ious will happen and elections will be months, the Janata Dal is doing st>. held pj'acefully. The election record Please tell me as to what steps have of Punjab shows that the people are been taken during the last six months co-operative and they believe in bro to improve the situation in Punjab. therhood. 1 thank you for giving me Was any of the promises fulfilled? The the opportunity to speak. I support Deputy Home Minister loured the the elections in Punjab, but I am State and returned only after giving against this amendment. clarifications. Is this the way to'deve lopment? Today, Punjab has neither \Enf>1ish] funds nor development. Tlie funds arc spent on the C.R.P.F. and B.S.F. SHRl RAJ DEV SINGH (Saiigrur); Neither there is any development in Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. in Punjab the field of education nor in public neither the President nor the Governor utility work, like roads. There is no is ruling but the corruption is ruling improvement in the economy and in Punjab. 1 do not agree with the other areas. Why are they being decei views expressed by certain M embm ved? Are the people of Punjab in any of the House that election is a solu way different from others? I would tion to the Punjab problem. Punjab like to tell the Hon, Prime Minister problem is basically and fundamen that earlier he had deceived the peo tally a Sikh problem. Election cannot ple Of Punjab and that is why the provide any solution to the I^njab people have told us not to support problem. The Shiromani Akali Dal. this Bill. Therefore, we will not sup the representative body of the Skhs port this Bill hecaus»e the promise has m^dc it clear that the Pimjab pro made to the people in this Parliament blem can be solved only if certain that the elections will be held within demands ot the Sikhs are coitOiNded. m months, has not been fuWUed, If Holding of the poll without couching 9J Const. (75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 (Amend, of Art. 356) 92 Motion to Consider [Sh. Rajdev Singh] I sincerely feel that at this stege when the demands of the Sikhs the demands of the sikhs shall serve are not being conceded, neces absolutely no purpose. Prior to this sary steps are not being taken, elec amendment, prior to the promulga tions will serve no purpose. But 1 tion of the President’s rule in Punjab, sincerely hope that this period of ex there was an elected Government. tension of President’s rule shall be If election was a solution to the Pun purposefully used for conceding the jab problem, or if election can be demands of the Sikhs, and for extend a solution to the Punjab problem, ing all po!i.sible help to the Sikhs, ^ then certainly there was no reiison that they may feel quite safe in this why the previous Government failed. country. The first demand of the Sikhs is that, 1 want to make it clear that every while living in India, they should step should be taken within the franic- have a separate status, a separate en work of the Constitution of India; tity and their own religion should and there can be no challenge to the be recognized as one of the religions integrity and unity of India from of India. the Sikhs. Those who say that the integrity and unity of India is in dan The Shiromani Akali Dal has made ger from the Sikhs, are not conversant a clear demand for declaring Sikhs with the psychology and philosophy a separate gaum. It should not be misunderstood, bacause qaitm has of the Sikhs. many meanings: and it really cannot In this period, the demands of the be translated accuratcly into English. Sikhs should be conceded. Peasan The Hindu Succession Act. Hindu try which is the backbone of the Marriage Act. Hindu Adoption and Sikhs, must be given due concessions Maintenance Act. Hindu Guardian and their basic demands should be ship and Minority Act—these have concedcd. been made applicable to the Sikhs Now. the Sikhs of Punjab are being as well, declaring the Sikhs as part tortured, while the bureaucracy has of Hindus. No Sikh can tolerate that a vested interest in prolonging Pre he be called a Hindu. sident's rule. The other demand of the Sikhs is that they must be given We have no dispute with the Hindus, more jobs in the Defence Services of and we have very good relations with India. Prior to 1947. the Sikhs had the Hindus, and it is the basic prin a strength of 33% in the Drfence ciple of Sikhism to lespect all Ae ^rvices of India. religions. But at the same time we cannot tolerate that our religion be But now they are only 2 per ccnt called part of the Hindu religion, and in the defence forces. TTie reason is is not recognized as a separate reli not that they do not want to serve gion. To recognize the Sikhs as a the motherland by joining the qaum is a very essential, crucial first defence forces; the reason is step towards bringing normalcy in that they are not being recruited in Punjab. Nobody can doubt the hone the defence forces. So, there is need sty and sincerity of the hon. Prime to give an opportunity to the Sikhs Minister for taking steps to bring to serve in the defence forces, to about normalcy in Punjab, but the serve the motherland, to defend the bureaucracy of Punjab has a vested motherland and also provide them interest, so that their rule may con more employment opportunities. So, tinue in Punjab. So. the bureaucracy my earnest appeal to this House is Is ad c^n g every methvxl to prolong that, in order to strengthen the inte its role, and is trying to stall the grity and the unity of India, which steps being taken by the hon. Prime is dear to every Indian, irrespective Minister to bring about normalcy in oT religion, caste, the Sikhs should Punjab. be declared a seinrate qaum and 93 Const. (7Sth Amend.) M l ASVINA 9,1912 (SAKA) (Amend o f Art. 356) 94 Motion to Consider their o&er demands should be a » - PROF. SAlF-UD-DlN SOZ: You ceded. 1 have no doubt that the can’t he autocratic. b [Sh. A. K. Roy] by postponing this election whether one year and provided some limita- this Government is increasing its ere* lions also. That does not exclude dibility with the people or is it losing the idea that the Emergency provi its credibility? By not holding these sions of the Constitution would be elections it is actually decreasing its utilised only in very rare cases. It credibility with the entire people. cannot be the rule. Last time we Even if 1 understand that all the have all heard the solemn promise Forties have arrived at a consensus. I that within certain period the elections like to know are they eligible to or do would be held and that this provision they hold any right to deprive a sec* would not be mis-utilised again* At ii(^n of the people of their democratic that time also I said that ‘‘all the right? They cannot. That is why Member are reluctantly supporting I say that it is an illegal, immoral tne Bill and I am reluctantly opposing and improper step. This is the the Bill.” And today also 1 take sadest and the blackest day of this the same position and it has been august House even if we are all ag proved that what I said at that time reed to extend President Rule in Pun has come to be true. jab even further. The second point is, 1 would like to ask the Prime Minister whether we Lastly, —I will take only one minute can solve all the problems by holding more 'I would like to remind this elections. By holding election we Government and the people from the cannot solve all the prv^blems of the floor of this House about one story country. We wanted to make Pun which is very old. Once Confucius jab, India but now India has become was asked by his disciple: “What Punjab. 1 am not going into that. are the three ingredients f tq iiM tqi I want to ask whether by postponing rule a country well?’’ Confucius re the elections we are going to solve any plied that three things were required, problem or not, whether we will be one was Fort, second was food and going ahead or whether we will be third was faith. Then the disciple going backward. That is to be con again asked, "‘If these three things sidered. What is our purpose? Our are not available, which has to be dis purpose is to isolate the terrorists who carded?*’ Reply came, ‘Tort.’' Then do not hold any principle or command the disciple again asked, “If one dws any faith among the people. But not get the two but only one which by postponing the elections are we has to be discarded?” Then he said weakening the hands of the terrorists that food can be descarded. but or are we strengthening the hands of faith cannot be discarded. the terrorists? 1 am of the opinion that by postponing election, we are I think that by extending this Pre strengthening the hands of the terro sident’s Rule we are losing the faith rists and in that way we are making and that moral right to rule Punjab. the position bad to worse. My third point is this: When this Government came to power MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. they did not promise to give right to So£, You are a very disciplined Mem work or anytning like that. Tliat ber of the House and you are aware right to work has not come, and I am of the decision of the House and I sure that it is not coming soon. But hope that you will speak for the shor* this Govcnwnent promised democracy. test time possible. This Government promised rule of law. This Government promised PROF. SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ: I more liberty. This Government pro was not much interested in speaking mised the "right to express opinions on Punjab, because 1 must have and to hold political crganisations and spoken, during all this time I have etectJons. . I like to know whether been here, twenty times on Puiijah, 97 Const. {75th Amend.) BUI ASVINA 9, 1912 {SAKA) {Amend, of Art. 356) 98 Motion to Consider MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You has a compulsion in extending Presi and your views are well-known. You dent’s Rule for six months. But can do it very quickly. Mr. Khurana has alerted me fuxther. PROR SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ: To- He wants extension ot President’s day particularly 1 felt inlerestcd for Rule by one year.... Unierrupticm) two things. One was an amendment from Mr, Khurana to the Constitu* SHRl MADAN LAL KHURANA: tional Amendment itsdf. And, then He is speaking on behalf of me.. 1 wanted to quote Ghalib's verse. I am told that the Prime Minister un {Interruptions) derstands urdu poetry. Mr. Khurana PROF. SAIF-UD4)1N SOZ; There wants extension of President’s Rule fore, when the Prime Minister rise to not by six months but by one year. reply to the debate, 1 want an assu* I wanted to say something on that. ranee from him that President's Rule I returned from Kashmir yesterday will be extended cnly lor six months full of agony in my mind. Therefore. and in the meantime, 1 have a sug I wanted to quote Ghalib because he gestion as to what the Prime Minister was the man who until this day was should do. It inay appear to be a never beaten by anybody so far as tall talk from a Member like me. I expression of agony is concerned. Our raise a question with the Prin:e Minis Prime Minister must be knowing this ter. He went to Punjab, lo Amrit- old ghazal. sai. 1 can never challenge his per [Trmslation] ception or his sincerity at that time or this niomenl. He raised a hope One of its couplet is as fcjllows: in Punjab. But I raise a question Hairan Hun Oil Ko Roun Ki Piiun with the Prime Minister. He belongs JioQT Ko Main lo a Party, which has the responsibi lity ol’ running this country properly Makdoor Ho To Saath Rakhun bccause l.eft Parties and BJP are Nohagar Ko Main supporting this. What has JD done [Enmsh] in Punjab? Ministei-s do not matter at the people's level but Parties mat rherc was a practice in ancient times, ter. What has the Janata Dal done may be till Ghalib’s time also that in Punjab since the Prime Minister when you would weep and weep and went to Amritsar? I found that weep and feel deeply sorry over a sit individual Members of that Party uation, you would be exhaustal, and exercising pressure on the ParliaoMl* then you would hire mercenaries on taiy Affairs Minister for joining Com your right and left who would weep mittees and going abroad. 1 want to for you. So, Ghalib says: ask them did they go to Punjab?; did they go to Kashmir?; did you send a ‘'My heart is full of agony. I parliamentary delegation?—it could cannot weep any longer. If 1 be All Party Parliamentary Delega could afford I would invite pro tion - did Janata Dal take initiative to fessionals to weep for m e/' apply balm to the wounds in Punjab? So tar as this amendment is concern ed, I feel that it is a compulsion for For the first time in my life in this the Central Government to extend House I differ with comrade Indrajit President’s Rule. \ will not mince Gupta. I have held him in highest words. I feel that perhaps condi esteem. He is not wrong when he tions are not ccmducive for elections suggests that Punjab has an economic in Punjab. For otherwise, the Prime problem too. He wants employ- Minister had made a commitment ment in so many sectors particidarly that he would hold elections in Pun in Army. He wants roads, buitdings. jab. So, I can read in this amend hospitals, and this and that. Indrajit ment that the Central Govenim<»it Babu, It belong to Kashmir. Ecotiomic 99 Const, {75th Amend) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 {Amend, of Art. 356) 100 Motion to Consider [Prof. Saif-ud-din Soz] delegation to Kashmir to see what is happening there? Will he go to factor does not remain relevant Sopore where people have been killed when the situation is what it obtains inside houses by BSF? It is a story in Punjab today. Punjab deserves of murder, molestation and arson to have sympathy, compassion. That the BSF. We want an enquiry by compassion is denied to Punjab. That three Supreme Court judges on all the compassion is denied to Kashmir this atrocities that have been committed time. It is a bullet for a bullet poli in Kashmir. We do not want Prime cy. I know the Governor in Punjab. Minister to watch helplessly this situa He was my colleague in a Committee tion in Kashmir and then advise us for long. He is a gentleman. He is here through his Ministers that we a noble soul. But something hap- should cooperate or what way we peas that the bureaucrats are in the should cooperate. The point is, what forefront and they show us the bureau are you doing or going to do in Kash cratic design of udministration. mir? Do you want to kill the peo 15.00 hrs. ple since you have failed to differen tiate between militants and innocent The bullet for bullet policy people? And in Punjab also you do has continued in the Punjab. not differentiate between innocent peo And the worst situation is there now ple and militants. So it is a connec in Kashmir. Has the Prime Minis ted problem. 1 want the Prime ter taken notice of the black laws— Minister to rise and reply to my Disturbed Areas Act and the Armed points. Will he institute an enquiry? Forces Special Powers Act? What Will he go to Kangan, Sopore, and happened in Kangan? A bus full Pazipora where Army and BSF have of people who were called militants, killed innocent people for no fault of was set on fire. I ask you to insti theirs? Why has the Government tute an enquiry and 1 will piove by failed to differentiate between mili circumstantial evidence that there tants and innocent people? You were innocent people also. What deal with militants with whatever law happened in Arampora. Sopore? you have. But what is your right Syed Sahabuddin and others came io kill innocent people? 1 have evi with me yesterday from Srinagar. dence before me. Will he assure the They went to the Governor and told House that innocent people will not him that in Sopore 60 houses were be killed in Punjab and Kashmir? burnt and four people were killed in side one house. {Intermpiions) [Translation] The situation in Punjab and Kashmir is inter connected. You can never THE MINISTER OF HOME solve the problem in Kashmir with AFFAIRS (SHRI MUFTI MOHAM bullets. Mr. Jagmohan’s policy is MAD SAYEED); Mr. Deputy still continuing. Mr. Saxena has not Speaker, Sir, it is true that when we shown a different perception. He is came to this House five months ago not allowed by his Advisers and Chief with a constitution amendment bill, Secretary to do that. There is a the Government and particularly the confrontation with the employees. Prime Minister had given an assu^ They are on total strike. Ration ranee that elections in Punjab would depots are closed. Hospitals are clos be held within next six months. It ed. Electricity is disrupted. The is also true that when the National common man is in difficulty. The Front Government came in power it Central Government h watching help took certain steps to bring about im lessly. 1 want to know from the provement in the Punjab situation. In Prime Minister: Will he send a other words it can be said that efforts parliamentary delegation to Punjab to were made to balm the wounds of ^ve sympathy to the people of Pun Punjab. Steps were also taken to jab? Will he send a parliament change the psyche of the people of 101 Comt,(7Sth Am^nd,) Bill ASVINA9, l9\2(SAKA){Am^nd.ofArt,356) 102 Motion to Consider Punjab* But so far as terrorism is all the national parties should join concerned, it is quite clear that terro hands and fight against it and mobi- rists are getting support from outside lise the people to create a con^nial and that too openly. Our security atmosphere there. There was another forces have recovered arms and am suggestions to seek an other extension munition from them in large quantity. of six months and hold elections in Tliis proportion shows that terrorists that period. It is necessary to take possess arms and ammunition in large political initiative in this regard. It quantity. In practical terms, we can IS also true that if the Government not claim at this stage that the situa makes a comniitment that elections tion in Punjab is ideal to hold elec will be held in the next six months, tions. Inspite of all this, the Prime the people may not believe it. The Minister has talked to Punjab M.Ps. Prime Minister is willing to hold and the leaders of the Akali Dais. elections in the next 4^5 months in- The issue of holding of elections in .stead of six months and thus 4-5 Punjab has been assessed in detail. months time should be given. But One suggestion in this regard has we arrived at a decision after consult been received from them. The peo ing all the supporting parties like ple of Punjab do accept that they arc BJP and the leftist parties. The a part of this big and democratic Goveinnient does not ix>ssess a trea country. The people of Punjab feel sure of wisdom. We can chalk out that the Government are having a an action plan but the outlines of the discriminatory approach towards Pun action plan should be drawn in con- jab because the elections have not MiJtation with all the political parlies. been held there for the last three 1 his action plan should help in creat years. Therefore, we should take ing a congenial amiospherc in Punjab the people of Punjab with us. The for holding elections. Wj have taken people of Punjab are prepared to take many steps in this regard. 1, as well part in elections. The Panthic Com as the Hon. Prime Minister, visited mittee has openly vvarned that they the border areas. As far as fencing will take action against those who IS concerned infiltration has been chec would take part in the elections. ked in areas where we have complet Despite this, a large number of people ed the fencing. In the lemaining are willing to lake part in the elections. areas of Punjab, fencing of 37 km. There was an opini(')n to hold elec long area will be completed this year tions immediately. Elections arc on war looting. We have directed necessary for winning the confidence the agencies involved in this taisk to of the peoplo of Punjab. The second compK'fe 236 KMs of fencing on opinion was against holding the elec Punjab and Rajasthan borders before tions till terrorism was brought under the end of January. Likewise, we control. have arianged for Hood light on 207 KMs long aiea. This fencing on The phenomenon of terrorism is a borders has to be very effective. long term one. If the terrorists con Therefore, we want to fence the entire tinue to get support from other quar border of Punjab. Similar is the ters, the killings in the State cannot be issue ol employment. We want that ^Stopi^. Therefore, the foremost all the young people of Gurdaspur, priority is to curb and contain ter -Amriisar or Fero^epur should get en?- rorism and then conduct elections in ‘plOyment. The gunpowder which is Punjab. It is not advisable to hold used for tackling terrorism cannot be .elections in Punjab without bringing of any use in this case. The Hon. violence under control. Prime Minister during his visit to Puniab announced that one lakh The third suggestion was to take youths would get employment by the some initiative. For example, there end of this year. For (his purpose should be an action plan. As has the Central Government has kept one been suggested by Shri Indrajit Gupta, hundred crore rupees at the disposal 103 Const. {7Sth Amend.) BUI OCTOBER 1, 1990 (Amend, of Art. 104 Motion lo Consider {iSh. Mufti Mohammad Sayeed] ..... of Punjab Government. I would 8*''* .***« “ ctor-wise break up in this regard. [Englisk] Wage Employment Industries Sector 30.000 Self-Employment in Industrial Sector 20.000 Self-employment in Business and Service Sector 10,000 Employment in Transport Sector 10»000 Dairy 20,000 Poultry 5,000 [Transfafhn] [English] SHRI SONIOSH MOHAN DEV iTripura West): What about cons- Besides tliis, the State Government tituting the Advisory Committees? has undertaken the work of constitut There was a parliamentary committee ing a task force of about ten thousand also constituted. youths. This work is in progress. They would get full compensation [Translation] and salary during the training period of one year. Apart from this, we SHRI MUFTJ MUHAMMAD have decided to raise at least 10 BSF SAYEED: 1 am coming to that. battalions and recruitment will be As regards Bureaucracy, Mr. Soz was made from three districts. This is talking privately with me about the a question of employment. Simi situation in Kashmir He was telling larly, as per the current year’s plan me about Shri Saxena... (hncrrup- allocation, we have already given lions }... a sum of Rs. 200 crores, Rs. 700crores [English] and Rs. 900 crores respectively for plan allocations at district kvel in PROF. SAIf-UD-DIN SOZ: 1 Punjab. The State Government has will take only half a minute, sir, be provided Rs. 255 crores to the Dis cause he has created a misunderstand trict Development Board for the deve ing 1 have said in the Press Con lopment works. This amount of ference that Saxena's perceptions were Rs. 255 crores would be at the dispo different than Jagmohan's but he has sal of the Deputy C^^mniissioners so not been allowed by the Advisors be that they can utilize the funds thiough cause those are the Advisors appoint the Panchayats. It is a matter of ed by Jagmohan. Saxena has not satisfaction that during the last year been allowed to shape hjs perceptions. the agricultural production of wheat You ensure that and remove the Chief and rice in Punjab was 49.86 lakh Secretary. What I say in private, I M.T. It has exceeded the target this say in public also. year. Apart from this, sancti^yn has [Trans'IaHan] been given to the State Government to set up five more sugar mills in Pun SHRI MUFTI MOHAMMAD jab. They are looking for a proper SAYEED: The bureaucrats become site. Thi» year we have also deaced all powerful and they least bother all the schemcs regarding setting *up whether their action is good or bed, of industries in the State. Lot of as there is no accountability in States work remains to be done in the indus like Kashmir where an accountable trial Sector. We have many schemes institution ceases to operate. A change in the situation in such places with us in which an amount of about which are under President’s rule 150 crores would be invested ...... and where the People’s rq>resentation (Intemtpjions^...... is held in abeyance can be b rou^t 105 Const. (75 th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9, 1912 (Anmd. o f Art. 3S6) 10(5 Motion to Consider about by making an institutional There are some who say— arrangnnent through the participation either of tiie political parties or of the [English] people who will be accountable for the action taken there till the general Give Punjab full dose of democracy. elections are held in that State. When [Tramlmion] power is vested in the officers, they use it in the interest of the country, They want elecdons to the State but in some cases they may commit Assembly as also elections at the dis excesses, for which there is no accoun tability. As Shrimati Bimal Kaur has trict level and municipal level to be held so that more and more people just now complained, the grievance is could participate in the development heard by the same officer who is the process. At district level also such decision maker himself. Likewise, committee will be constituted to look some friends and some parties ...... after the work relating to the districts. SHRIMATI BIMAL KAUR It will be counter-productive to con KHALSA: I want to know as to tinue the President’s rule in the State. what action will you take there against However, there are some people who the offending bureaucracy? apprehend that if electicns are held, the conditions at this point of time [English] are such that the traitors will manage to get elected. PROF. SAIF-UD-DIN SOZ: They have given draconian powers to those officers under the Disturbed Areas Act [English] and the Armed Forces Special Powers Act. dmemtpticms) SHRI A. K. ROY: We are inter- ested to know what you have done SHRI INDER JIT: Can’t you since the last extension. (Interrup associate Members of ParliamMit who tions) are electedi from the State? They can [Translation] be actively associated. {T>anslaticm\ SHRI MUFTI MOHAMMAD SAYEED: Some people are fSh. Mufti Mohammad Sayccd] 1 would like to request each Mem ber to make sure that be is sitting in per cent. A candidate of the Janata W\h assigned seat. Each Member is, Dal also won from there. How did requested to take special care to recor4 Shri Chaudhry and Mrs. Bhinder of his vote correctly ‘Ayes’. ‘Noes’ or the Congress party get elected from ‘Abstain’ as the case may be so that there if the votes were secured on the there is no occasion for making correc gun-point, as some people say? So, tion. there is no truth in saying that the election was lield on gun-point there, I may briefly recall that as soon as in future too, no such thing will hap automatic vote recording equipment is pen. A conducive atmosphere can be made active on announcement of the created there if all the poh'tical forces Chair, “Now Division”, a gong sounds joint together. which is the signal to the Members to cast their votes, each Member has to I request all the members to extend push switch and then operate one of their co-operation and pass this Con the three buttons, Le, “Ayes”, “Noes” stitutional Amendment Bill. or “Abstain’’, according to his own choice. I'he push switch and the push button must be kept pressed simul SHRF BHOGENDRA JHA taneously until the gong sounds for (Madhubani): A claiification is the second time after 10 seconds. needed ...... {InierrupHom)...... The Newspapers have carried reports to the effect that the Prime Minister has Kind co-operation of Members is given assurance in the House that solicited. elections in Punjab will be held within the next six months by creatine con SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Siva- ducive atmosphere in the "State. ganga): This Party is split; this Front Therefore. 1 want the Prime Minister is split: this Government is split. We to give assurance in the House that want this Government to demonstrate elections to Panchayat, Municipality that it commands a majority in this and Legislative Assembly will be held House. We do not propose to vote in simultaneously in Punjab. the first stage. We want to see that whether they have a majority and then SHRI KIRPAL SINGH: Mr. De we shall co-operate. puty Speaker, Sir, I do not want to participate in the voting. [Trcmslation] 15.22 hrs. At this st'tgc, Shri Kirpa^ SHRIMATI BIMAL KAUR left the House. KHALSA: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I walk out of the House in protest [English] against extension of the President’s Rule in Punjab. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Be fore I put the motion for considera tion of the Bill to vote. 1 would like 15 28 hrs. At this stage, Shimati Bimal to say that this being a Constitution Kaur Khalsa left the House, (Amendment) Bill, voting has to be by [English] division* SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: The Let the Lobbies be cleared— Congress Party is hopelessly split. They are a divided Party. Now the Lobbies have been clear ed. Before I put the motion, I would SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: We like toi read out as to how the voting shall not vote in the first stage of con^ ha« to be doneJn the House for the aideration. If they command. benefit of the'Members. ^ majority, then we shall , vote togetW 109 Const. (75th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9. 1912 {SAKA) (Amend, o f Art. 356) 110 Motion to Consider for special majority. We aie act Bhaigava, Shri Oiidbari Lai going to vote in the first stage. We Bhartiya, Shri Santosh are not going to press any button. (interruptions) Bhatia, Shri Ram Sewak Bhattacharya, Shrimati Malini MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ord« Birender Singh, Rao in the House please. Brahmbhatt, Shri Prakash Koko Now the Lobbies have been cleared. Chakravorty, Shri Susanta The question is: Chand Ram. Shri Chandra Shekhar. Shii “That the Bill further to amend Chatterji, Shri Somnath the Constitution of India be taken into consideration.” Chaudhary, Shri Ram Prasad Chaudhary, Shri Rudrasen The Lok Sabhadivided-. Chauhan. Shri Prabhatsinh Chavda, Shri KhemchandUiai AYES* Somabhai lyivi^ion No. / 15.29 hrs. Choudhury, Shri Lokanath Choudhury, Shri Saifuddin Acharia, Shri Basudeb Chowdhary, Shri Dasai Agarwal, Shri J.P, Dandavate, Prof. Madhu Agnihotri. Shri Rajendra Danwe, Shri Pundlik Ahmed, Shri Anwar Das, Shri Anadi Charan Ajit Singh. Shri Das, Shri Bhakta Charan Am^tt, Shri D. Dasgupta, Dr. Biplab Argal, Shri Chhaviram Datta, Shri Amal Bais, Shii Ramesh Delkar, Shri Mohanbhai Sanjibhai Baitha, Shri Mahendra Deshmukh. Shri Chandubhai Bala. Dr. Asim Dhakane, Shri Babanrao Banera, Shri Hamendra Singh Dhankhar, Ch. Jagdeep Bankhele, Shri Kisanrao Baburao Dhumal. Prof. Pr«n Kumar Barman. Shri Palas Dikshit. Shri Narsinghrao Basu, Shri Anil Dome. Dt. Ram Chandra Basu. Shri Citta Fernandes. Shri George Beg, Shri Yusuf Fernandez, Shri Joss Bengali Singh, Dr. Gandhi. Shrimati Maneka Bhagey Gobardhan. Shri Gangwar, Shri Santosh Kumar tBhardwaj. Shri Parasram ______Giri, Shri Sudhir * Besides, the following Members also lecorded their votes for Ayes through Division clerks.- Sarvashri Sharad Yadav, Arif Mohammad Khan, Bhajamand Behera, Bega Ram, Mandhata Singh, Mahendra Singh Mewar, Dflip Singh Ju Deo, Seo Sheran Vtrma, Kaiiash Nath Singh Yadav, Lalbaboo Rai, Heera Bhai, Nirmal Kanti Chatterjee, Shrimati Subhashini Ali, Sarvashri Shailvendranath Shrivastava, Janardan Yadav, Karia Munda, Dr. Khushal Parasram Bobcfat, Sarvashri Indrajit Gupta, Mani Bhattacharya, Ramashray Prasad Singh, Haradhan Roy, Oopalrao Mayekar, G ovin^o Nikam, Kankar Mwyare, Harish Pal and Ram Sharan Yadav. tWrongly voted for Ayes. 8 -4 LSS/ND/90 I ll Const. (75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER I, 1990 (Amend, of Art. 356) 112 Motion to Consider •Giriyappa, Shri CP. Mudala Mishra, Shri BalgO{»] Gupta. Shri Dhannpal Singh Mishra. Shri Janeshwar Hannan Mollah, Shri Mishra. Shri Raj Mangal Harsh Vardhan, Shri Misra, Shri Satyagopal Het Ram, Shri Mukherjee, Shirmati Geeta Hota, Shri Bhabani Shankar Mukhopadhyay, a»ri Ajoy Inder Jit, Shri Munda, Shri Govinda Chandra Jaswant Singh. Shri Naik, Shri Ram Jatav, Shri Than Singh Nathu Singh. Shri Jena. Shri Srikinta Nayak, Shri Nakal Jha. Shri Bogendra Negi. Shri C.M. Jorawar Ram, Shri Nehru, Shri Anin Rumar Jofihi, Shri Dau Dayal Nitish Kumar, Shri Kabde, Dr. Venkatesh Pacherwal, Shri Gopal Kalka Das, Shri Pal, Shri M.S. Kalvi, Shri Kalyan Sngh Pal, Shri Rupchand *Kamble, Shri Arvind Tulshiram Pande, Shri Rajmangal Kapse. Prof. Ram Ganesh Pandey, Prof. Yadu Nath Kataria, Shri Gulab Chand Pandeya, Dr. Laxminarayan Keshari Lai, Shri Pani, Shri Ravi Narayan Khan, Shri Sukhendu Panwar, Shri Harpal Singh Khandelwal, Shri Pyarelal Paranjpe, Shri Baburao Khanoria. Shri D.D. Paraste, Shri Dalpat S in ^ Khurana, Shri Madan Lai Paswan, Shri Chhedi Kotadia, Shri Manubhai Paswan, Shri Ram Vilas Kundu. Shri Samarendra Paswan, Shri Sukdeo Lodha, Shri Guman Mai Patel. Dr. A.K. Mahale, Shri Harlbhau Shankar Palel, Shn Arjunbhal Mahata, Shri Chitta Patel, Shri Maganbhai Manibhai Makkasar. Shri Shopat Singh Patel, Shri Natubhai M. Malik, Shri Puma Chandra Patel, Shri Prahlad Singh Malik, Shri Satya Pal Palel, Shri Ram Pujan Mallik, Shri Mangaraj Patel, Shn Shantilal Purushottam Mandal. Shri Sanat Kumar Das Manjay Lai, Shri Patel, Shri Somabhai Masudal Hossain. Shri Syed Pathak, Shri Harin Mayawati, Kumari Patidar, Shri Rameshwar Meena, Dr. Kirodi Lai Patil, Shri Basavaraj Meena, Shri Nandlal Patnaik, Shri Sivaji Meghwal, Shri Kailash Pramanik, Shri Radhika Ranjan Mehta. Shrimati Jayawanti Prasad. Shri Hari Kewal Navinchandra Prem Pradeep, Shri Mirdha, Shri Nathu Ram ’ Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom •Wrongly voted for Ayes 113 Const. (^5th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9,1912 {SAKA) {Amend, o f Art. 356) 114 Motion to Consider Raghavji. Shri Singh. Shri !%anraj Rai, Shri M. Ramanna Singh. Shri Jagannath Raje. Shrimati Vasundhara Singh. Shri K. Manvendra Raja, Bh. Vijayakumar Singh. Shri Lalit Vijoy Rajveer Singfa. Shri Singh. Shri Pratap Ram Awadh. Shri Singh, Shri Radha Mohan Ram I%an. !9iri Singh, Shri Ram Naresh Ram Sagar, Shri (Bara Banki) Singh, Shri Ram Prasad Ram Sagar. Shri (Saidpur) Singh. Shri Sukhendra Ram Sajiwan, Shri Singh. Shri Surya Narayaa Ram Singh. Shri Singh. Shri Tej Narayan Ramakrishna, Shri Y. Singh, Shri Uday Pratap Rao. Shri K. Rama Mohan Singh, Shri Vishwanath Pratap Rasheed Masood. Shri Singh Deo, Shri A.N. Rathva, Shri Narayanbhai Sinha, Shrimati Usha Jamlabhai Sonkar. Shri Kalpnath Rathor. Dr. Bhagwan Dass *Soz, Prof. Siif-ud-din Rawat, Prof. Rasa Singh Subedar, Shri Ray, Dr. Sudhir Tandel, Shri D.J. Raychaudhuri, Shri Sudarsan Tarif S in^, Shri Routray, Shri Nilamani Tarwala. Shri Amratlal Vallabhdas Roypradhan. Shri Amar Taslimudin. Shri Sahay, Shri Subodh Kant Thakore. Shri Gabbhaji M^ngaji Sai. Shri Nand Kumar Tiraky. Shri Piyus Sainl, Shri Gurdial Singh Tiwari. Shri Brij Bhushan Sanyal. Shri Manik Topdar, Siiri Tarit Baran Saran, Shri Daulat Ram Tyagi, Shri K.C. Saroj. Shri Saiju Prasad Unnikrishnan, Shri K.P. Sarwar Hussain. Shri Varma, Shri I%armesh Prasad Save. Shri Moreshwar Varma, Shri Ratilal Kalidas Sayeed. Shri Mufti Mohammad Vanna, Shri S.C. Scindia, Shrimati Vijayaraje Vckaria, Shri S.N. Shah. Shri Babubhai Meghji Verma. Shri R.L.P. Shah. Shri Jayantilal Virchandbhai Verma. Shri Upendra Nath Shakedur Rehman. Dr. Yadav. Shri Baleshwar Shakya. Dr. Mahade^>ak Singh Yadav, Shri Chhotey S in ^ Shalva, Siri Ram Singh Yadav. Shri Chun Chun Prasad Siastri, Shri Anil Yadav, Shri Devendra Prasad Shastri. Shii Kapil Dev Yadav. Shri Hukumdeo Nflxayan Shastri, Shri YAiauna Prasad Yadav. Shri Mitra Sen Shekhada. Shri Oovindbhai Yadav. Shri Ram Krishan Kanjibhai Yadav, Shri Ramendra Kumar Ravi Singh. Shri Ajay Yadav. Dr. SJ». •Wron^y voted for Ayes. LSS/ND/90 ]]5 Const. (75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER I. 1990 (Amend, o f Art. SSg) 116 Motion to Consider Yadav, Shri Surya Narayan DR. BIPLAB DASGUPTA (Cal- Yadava, Shri Ramjilal cutta South): Do not play this silly game. What are you proving? The Yadvendra Datt, Shri majority is still there. (Interruptions) Yuvraj, Shri Zaitial Abedm, Shri SHRI VASANT SATHE (War- dha): You must be very careful NOES** about the slips. (Interrnptiotts) *Gupta, Shri Indrajit MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Rajdev Singh. Shri not at this time. Roy. Sui A.K. (Interruptions) PROF. P. J. KURIEN (Maveli- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. kara); It has been proved that the Prime Minister does not have a Members, will you please be in your simple majority in the House. seats? SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: His (Interruptions) moral authority is zero today. What is the moral authority for him in the SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir. country today? People are being my demand for a head count re killed. mains. (Interruptions) PROF. P. J. KURIEN: Let the Prime Minister react. What is his SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, reaction? I want to hear. why there is delay? Please announce the result SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: You produce a simple majority. We will give you two-thirds majority. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, will you please take your PROF. P. J. KURIEN: We can seats? give two-thirds majority. You pro duce simple majority. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Why there is delay? Why has he SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: 1 gone out? (Interruptions) want to go on record that the lobby must remain locked. The lobby must Mr. Dq>uty Speaker, why there is remain closed. The lobby must not so mudi delay? (Interruption^ be opened. I am demanding a head count. The lobby must remain closed. We will check the lobby. 1 have been in this House for more It must remain closed. Nobody must than 20 years. I have not seen such be allowed to come in. I demand a delay in counting. There cannot head count. be such a delay. Unnecessary doubts will be created. Please do not give SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond room for doubts. (Interruptions) Harbour); You said that “We are going to cooperate.” Now in the »1R I P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir. last minute you do not cooperate. my demand for a head count remains. (Interruptions). .. .(Interruption^,.. *Wrongly voted Noes. **Besides, Shri R.S. Prasad voted for NOES thiougb Division plerk. 117 Const. (75th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9,1912 (SAKA) (Amend, o f Art. 356) 118 Motion to Consider [trandotkm] [English] SHRI B. SHANKARANAND; SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Now, what are you waiting for? But how long? You announce the results. [English] MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: TTiey have to give me the slip. Unnecessarily, why there is delay? (Interruptions) Why it takes so much time? ...{In terruptions)... Why are you delay SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: ing? Whom arc you waiting for? We object to this. (Interruptions) .. .(Interruptions)... PROF. P. J. KURIEN: From [TranslatU»i\ where have those slips come now? (Interruptions) SHRI VAS ANT SATHE: Are you waiting for mote slips to oome? [Tronslcaion] .. .{Interruptions)... SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Al- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: mora): Five of their members were Are you so confused? ...{Interrup not taking part In the voting. They tions)... were forced to cast their votes. This is a wrong practice. ...{Interrup [English] tions)... I am sorry to point out to you that [English] undue delay is creating doubts in our mind. May 1 know why this delay? SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY: {Interruptions) We can give you a simple solution to this. When the result comes to PROF. P. J. KURIEN: You have you. you kindly announce their names to announce the result. {Interrup and let the Members get up in their tions) seats. {Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will read out the rule. It says: SHRI VASANT SATHE; Other wise. you have to go by the head “After the members have record count. That is the only way. {Inter- ed their votes, the Division rupticms) Clerks shall collect the ‘Aye’ and ‘No’ slips and bring them to . PROF. R J. KURIEN: We have the Table where the votes shall serious doubts about the slips that be counted by the OflScers at the have come. We feel some of the Table and the totals of ‘Ayes’ slips have come from outside. I sug and ‘Noes’ presented to the Spea gest you to call out the names of ker. uiose slips as also the division num bers. Then only we will accept it The result of the Division shall be {Interruptions) announced by the Speaker and it shall not be challenged.” SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR (Interruptions) (Ballia): May I make a humble re quest to tiie whole House including [Translcgiori] me members from the o{q>osition and espMially to the Leader of the Op PROF. P. J. KURIEN: From position? We are in a deep crisis. where these slips have come? These We were assured this morning,, ac- have c(Hne from outside. {Interrup coiding to Indraji^i, that this BiU will tions) be passed. I can undravtand the state- 119 Const. (75th Amend.) Bill OCTOBER 1, 1990 {Amiid. of Art. 356) 120 Motion to Consider [Sh. Chandra Shekhar] Motion and we will i»ove our majo ment made by Sbri ChidfliatMur^ rity. In the morning they have given that we must show our own majority us an assurance. You have givoi an in the House. We have not been assurance in the morning; you intros able to do it ...... (Interruptions)...... pect and give us an honest answer. You have scored your political point We want an honest answer. {Inter May I request you that in order to ruptions) make a point against us. don’t put the whole nati(» into a difficult situa THE MINISTER OF INFORMA tion? May I request this House and TION AND BROADCASTING Mr. Deputy Speaker to find out some AND MINISTER OF PARLIA way by which the Bill is passed? MENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. Whatever you have tried to indicate UPENDRA): Sir, two minutes be to the House and to the whole coun fore the voting, I met both the Leader try, you have achieved it in your of the Opposition and the Chief Whip. own way ...... {Interruption^...... I Both assured me that their party was urge upon you to join in the request supporting the measure. But they are to the Opposition to come to our help not doing it now. {Interruption^) to pass the Bill unanimously. I hope MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now. something will be done. the result of the division is; SHRI KAMAL CHAUDHRY; Ayes: 249 Who has put this country in a crisis? Noes: 3 SHRI RAJIV GANDHI (Amethi): 'rhe motion is not carried in accor Mr. Dq>uty Speaker, Sir, we will look dance with Rule 157 of the Rules of for a way out of the problem that Procedure and Conduct of Business has been created by this voting on the Punjab. I will not comment on in Lok Sabha and in accordance with the vote till we have your number the provisions of Article 368 of the results. But let me assure the hon. Constitution of India. Member from the Government side The motion was negatived. that we will not act irresponsibly. {Interruptions) (Interruptions) SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Let us go for elections: why all this? SHRI RAJIV GANDHI (Amethi); Sir, it is our responsibility to give the SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP two-thirds majority. It is the Gove SINGH: As a consequence of the rnment’s responsibility to produce position taken by the Members of half the House and produce a suni^e Opposition Congress I, if it comes to majority. We will fulfil our part. They elections, we are ready for elections. must fulfil their part. Our worst fears SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: The have come true today that this Gov question is not erf elections in Punjab; ernment is running without a majo the question is of the credibility of rity in diis House. They have not this Government. {Interruptions) been able to demonstrate a simple majority in this House, Sir. We are SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP faced with a constitutional crisis. Even SINGH: Sir, only one more sentence today, we are willing to sit down and I want to add. {Interruptions) I find a sdution to Punjab and see n^at want to add only one swuence. Sir. is to be done. We agree with the Tlie point raised by Shri Cbidamba- Government that the Government can ram was about 'the ruling party com not bold free and fair elections in manding majority*. The point b. Sir, Punjab. We will sit down and won^ if th ^ want to test our majority, out what can be done with this. let them now laing No-Coofidence {Interruptions). 121 Const, (75th Amend.) BUI ASVINA 9, 1912 (SAKA) (Amend, o f Art 356) 122 Motion to Consider MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please ernment. Please be kind enough to take your seat. (Interruptions) Now express your opinion on this issue... we take up the adjournment motion. (Interrupfiom)... Mr. Shankaranand.,. 16.02 hrs. [MR. SPEAKER in the 16.02 hra Chair] (Interruptions) SHRl DINESH SINGH (Pratap- [En(^lish] garh): My point of order is that when SHRI P. R. KUMARAMANGA- the Governmeni docs not have a ma LAM: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a jority, can we continue with the busi point of order. There was votin [Sh. Jaswant Singh] Leader of the Opposition.., (Interrup tions) Why arc these people getting so stitutional question of very great im much agitated? portance. 1 do not think "that that point is to be made in the context of MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of Punjab. 1 do not think that in our the Opposition will speak for himself. preoccupation with pulling or pushing a respective political p [Sh. Rajiv Gandhi] agreed upon in the morning; and what has been done the variance has been has to be done. I agree with the Gov brought to light very clearly. That the ernment’s position that the Govern country will judge. (Interruptions) ment is in..,(Interruptions) However, do they bear this in mind? SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: You Do they want to back out? {Inierruih have misled the House. tions) [Translation^ All right; if you do not want to MR. SPEAKER: Please listen to back out, then you prove it. I will Rajivji also just as you listened to see it in your vote. (Inierruptiom) Jaswantji. I am coming to the next point. {Interruptions) (Imerniptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Sathe. you SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: Sir. there are a senior Member; he is not yield- are two questions which have been ing. raised today. [T ranslation] One is what has to be done in Pun jab, We are willing to sit down with SHRI VASANT SATHE: How long Government and discuss v/hat can be will you subsist on oxygen (Interrupt done. We arc open to rc^’ommenda- (ions) ^ tions and suggestions by the Govern ment. We will wait lo*^hear wiiat the [Ensiish] Government has to say. SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP 1 he second question i'' it is equ SINGH: I want to challenge the Leader ally important—what right has this of the Opposition on his next point; Government and what is the moral and there, I want the Leader of the standing of this Government when it Opposition to listen to me diiectly. I cannot "produce the simple majority in challenge the Leader of the Opposition this House? What business can be {Interruptions) on the floor of the done, if the Government does not have House, just now. (Interruptions) Please the simple majority? ask them to keep quiet. THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI [Translation] VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH): Sir, the hon. Leader of the Opposition Please control your Members. has challenged the authority of this [English] Government to continue. This is the 1 want to challenge him just now, that basic point that he has raised. They on the floor of the House, just now have made two points. {InicDuptions) let him move a No-Confidence Motion. Volume does not give strength to We are in the majority, and they are the argument. (Inierruption^) He has in a minority. We have 249, and they made two points: one regarding Pun are not even.. (Interrupfions) So, there jab, on which he had said that he is no question on that. If you want you was ready to give his cooperation; but can have a challenge now, and have a we have seen their reaciio!^, eind the voting. Why do you fight shy of it (M- assessment of various Members on this. terruptions) You can have voting just The net result of that is that the now. {Interruptions) Constitution Amendment Bill is in jeopardy. That is the result of their You have backed out in the morn constructive support, (Interruptions) ing. So, we have said: just back out and also the assurances ^-and I know now, from your challenge. (Interrupt what Shri Tndrajit Gupta and Shri tions) Have a vote and see whether the Yashwant Sinha have said, what they Government has a majority, or you liave brought to light* and what was have it. Come on. (Interruptions) 129 Const. {75th Amend,) Bill ASVINA. 9, 1912 (SAKA) {Amend, o f Art. 356) 130 Motion to Consider SHRi SOMNATH CHATlERJEE: be postponed. That was also said Have it now, if he has got the cou before the Speaker in the meeting held rage. Let him accept the chiillenge, if in the morning. Now they are creat he has got the couragc.(Inienuptiom) ing a situation only with a view to try to prove that this gtwemmcnt to SHRI RAJiV GANDHI: I appre day has not at the present moment ciate the predicament the Prime Minis- over 50 per cent of the support. There ter is in. No matter what excuses he fore, he is playing with the country. makes, he cannot hide the fact that What is their offer of cooperation today, in a special Session called for now, in what manner they would co the passing of the Constitution Amend operate, nothing is being indicated ment Bill, the Government and its sup today. Now they create a situation porting parties have not been able to and give a magnanimous offer of co procure a simple majority, {luteimp- operation. At the moment, they have tions) no proposal to make on the Floor of this House. This country should know SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: that this situation has been created What does the Leader of the Opposi because of the juvenile attitude taken tion want to prove? by the Congress {Interruptions) They are j')laying with the country. If this SHRi VISHWANA1 H PR A TAP House is of the view that the election SINGH: 1 want to tell the hon. Leader in Punjab should be postponed, if of the Opposition: it is not a question that is the view of the majority, pre of vote of confidencc .It is .i question ponderant majority of the House, then of breach of confidence by him. So far they are playing with the fire: they as no-confidence is concerned, he can arc holding the country to ransom. test it in the House, nght now here; Therefore, we must make it clear that and 1 challenge him to bring il. it is for them to \)rovc,.,{1ntLrniptions) They have no suggestion to give. This PROF. P. J. KURIEN(Mavelikara): responsibility is being thrown on the He is misleading. House. {Interruptions) SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: Either SHRIMATI GEETA MIJKHER- they want our cooperati(')n—and we JEE (Panskura): I beg the coopera will talk to them- -or they want to tion of the House again. It is really cany on in this manner. {Ininrnp- a very sad situation. 7 his is the high tiom) est forum of our country. We are playing with fire, {hffermptians) We SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: cannot do that: whatever it may be, The Leader of the Opposition has we cannot do that. Therefore, if they admitted that this Session has been really want to bring a No-Confidence called to pass the Constitution (Ame Motion, let them do so. {hitcrrnp^ ndment) Bill with regard to Punjab. lions) They say, according to them, that they have taken a political decision {Translation] to have the election in Punjab post poned. {Interryptiom) SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Mr. Speaker, Sir, before the Minister of SOME HONOURABLE MEM Parliamentary Affairs speaks, 1 would BERS: No. like to say that enough is enough. It is not advisable on our part to go to SHRI SOMNATH CHAITERJEE: further extremes which could bring Otherwise, what was this talk? On disastrous consequences, (inrerrup- the Floor of the House the Leader of tions) the Opposition said that he would co operate with regard to passing the What I want to say is that :i lot of Constitution (Amendment) Bill. It politics has been done on this issue. means that they want the election to The opposition wanted to score 131 Const. {75th Amnd.) Bill 0Z103EB. 1, \ m {4mnd, of Art. 355) 132 Motion to Consider [Sh. Jaswant Singh] members, the Janata Dal members have deserted the Prime Minister. political points by making it a political There is an open revolt in their party. issue. They have to be specific in They cannot produce a majority. What their reply, yes or no. It is not a is the point in their calling us juve challenge of Kabhadi, (Jtuerruptions) nile? How long will it take for me to Mr. Speaker, Sir, let by gones be call this a senile criticism? How long by gones. A constitutional in^passe will it take for the Congress Party to has been created on this issue. Jn call them senile? view of this, 1 would like to make a request to the Hon. Prime Minister The point is today the Leader of that let us not make \: a subject of the Opposition is offering cooperation, debate in the Punjab cohiexi. 1 would wc arc offering cooperation; they must like to request you to adjourn the come up with the proposal. They can- proceedings of the House for an hour. noT, because their party is hopeles«ly In the meantime, I shall make a re divided and the National Front is ho quest to the Hon. Prime Minister as pelessly divided and there is an opj?n well as the leader of the opposition revolt. They cannot come up with to suspend the rule of the House any suggestion, they cannot come up which compels us to take up this sub with any proposal. Now, if the Prime ject in this session itself. L.et the Minister can muster his numbers and House re-assemble after one hour and muster his ranks, and make a propo pass this amendment Bill. That is sal wc are going to consider it. His n\y submission to you. members have deserted him. While we are willing to give them two-thirds [En^lisfi\ majority he cannot produce a simple SHRl SAirtDDIN CHOUDHURY majority. His members have deserted (Katwa): By not taking part in the him. Let him go and blame them. voting the Congress (1) had actually indirectly voted for Khalistan in Pun Hon'ble Mr. Jaswant Singh and jab and for terrorism in Punjab. 1 Hon. Mr. Chandra Shekhar, 1 think, would only say, if they are even now have responded constructively. They realising their mistake, I would not have realised the situation. They want demand an apology from them--that our cooperation. There is the Prime they must exp ress regret for what they Minister who is throwing a challenge have done and about their lole in to us. The Leader of the Opposition this House. has responded to that. If you want our cooperation the Prime Minister SHRl NIRMAL KAN'Tl CHAT- musl come down from his high horse. TERJIiE (Dumdum): In order to The Prime Minister thinks that he is prove a similar point they generated sitting on some high horse. He must the Khalistan movement in Punjab. come down to earth and ask for our They are not ashamed of this. For cooperation and he will get coopera everything in Punjab they will be held tion from us. squarely responsible. {Interruptions) SHRl P. CHIDAMBARAM (Siva- SHRl NIRMAL KANTI CHA- gang:!): All tnis rhetoric, all this call TERJEE (Dumdum): Now they want ing names and accusing us is not going to rescue themselves. to obscure one point. The point re mains that the Prime Minister and THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- the Leader of the Opposition exchan HON & BROADCASTING AND ged four letters. Fhe Prime Minister MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY could not indicate his mind, could not AFFAIRS (SHRl P. UPENDRA); indicate a proposal. The correspond Well, I do not know what the Leader ence ended in a stand off. Then a of the Opposition had wanted to prove. special session is called. When a It is very clear that a Constitution special session is called, their own Amendment in Parliament cannot be 133 Const. {75th Amend.) Bill ASVINA 9, I9I2 (UKA) (Amend, o f Art. 35Si 134 Motion to Consider passed without the cooperation of the slip. But 1 said nothmg...(/w/OTwp- Congress (I). And that is well-known, tions) they need not rub it in too much every time. Because, not only in this SHRI P. UPENDRA: It is a ques House, in the Rajya Sabha also, where tion of elections in Punjab, If they the Congress Party still has a majo are not willing to cooperate, the Go rity—they are 120 and we are 116— vernment is ready to go in for dec- it is so. And that is why whenever tions...Unterriiptions) Even today, our we moved a Constitution Aniendment 250 Members are here. We have got we did consult the Congress Party a majority on this side. On that side and only then, when there is a con they are in minority. Let them bring sensus. only then, we brought forward No Confidence Motion and we shall any amendment. In this House the prove our majority any time in the Government has a total strength of House. 284, along with the supporting parties. We also know the limitations of mo bilising 273 or 274 Members... MR. SPEAKER: Now I adjourn ruptions) It happened several times. the House to meet again at 5.30 p.m. Even when the Cv)ngress Party had I request the leaders of the Parties 400 Members, 350 Members and 450 and Groups to meet me in my cham Members, several timjs the Constitu ber. tion Amendment Bill failed. We know the limitations...(//7/e»rr///;r/V>m) That is why, we have always sought their 16.47 hrii. cooperation for passing the Constitu tion Amendment BiPs. Even today, The Lok Sahha then adjourned till just two minutes t>efore the voting, I Thirty minutes pust Seventeen of went to the lane of the Opposition the Clock. because I found that one of the Whips going round the benches there whisper ing something to the Members. T sus pected something. I called the Chief Whip. You saw us when both of us were talking there. He assured me that The Lok Sahha then re-assenihled the Opposition has decided to vote in at Thhly-five minutes past Seven fa v o u r of the Constitution Amend teen oj the Clock. ment l^\W...{hUerriipiions) [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: No Sir. Chair] That statement is totally incorrect. [In terruptions) [English] You can edit Khula Manch. You PROF* N. G. RANG A (Guntur): cannot edit Lok Sabha. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have some tions) good news for you and for the House. Hon. friend, Shri Vasant Sathe has been persuaded to break his fast and SHRI P. UPENDRA: After that, the threat of Satyagraha against the the Leader of the Opposition called Mandal Commission Report, in the me and showed me- “ this is the slip. light of order made by the Supreme You rest assured that we are voting Court. Therefore, 1 congratulate the for the h\W\,XUtterrupth>ns) House as well as one of the leaders on the other side,..(tnterruptiom) SHRT RAJIV GANDHI: This is totally misleading. I did show him a 135 Re. A.lioimmenl Motion OCTOBER 1, 1990 Amouncemeni 136 by Deputy Speaker Cancellation of sitting for 3-10-1990 RE. ADJOURNMENT MOTION 17 J 6 hre. ANNOUNCEMENT BY DEPUTY Police atrocities in dealing with stu SPEAKER dents' agitation against Government's decision on Mandat Commission Re Sitting for 3 October, 1990 cancelled port and resort to self-immolation by on acconnt of Prophet Moiunnmad students against the decision. -Conid. Sahib’s birthday [English] [English] MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before I adjourn the House. I have to make MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think an announcement. the item on the Agenda is the Adjou rnment Motion. I was told by some I have to inform the House that Members from this side and cdier bide the silting of Lok Sabha fixed for also that... Wednesday, the 3rd October, 1990 has been cancelled on account of Prophet Mohammed Sahib’s Birthday THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (Milad-un-Nabi) which has been dec (PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE): lared a closed holiday by Govern The House was adjourned by the ment. There will accordingly, be no Chair, Sir. sitting ol the House on that day. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That 17.37 hrs. was a different icind of adjournment. Now. both of you do not want it; so. J'hc I.ok Sabhu then adjourned till we may not tal(c it up for di<.cus<.ion, Eleven oj the ^'lock on Thursday, October 4, \990IAsvina 12, 1912 (Sokit). MGIPCBE-S3-4LSS/ND/90-7-4-9I- 700.