Nlatla SerIeI, Vol. I. No 4 Tha.... ', DeeemIJer 21. U89 , A..... ' ... 30. I'll (SUa)

LOK SABHA DEBATES (English .Version)

First Seai.D (Nlntb Lok Sabba)

(Yol. I COlJtairu N08. 1 to 9)

LOI: SABRA SECRE1'AlUAT NEW DELHI Price, 1 Itt. 6.00 •• , • .' C ,

'" ".' .1. t; '" CONTENTS

[Ninth Series, VoL /, First Session, 198911911 (Saka)]

No. 4, Thursday, December 21, 1989/Agrahayana 30, 1911 (Saka)

CoLUMNS

Members Sworn 1 60

Assent to Bills 1--2

Introduction of Ministers 2-16

Matters Under Rule 377 16-20

(i) Need to convert the narrow gauge railway 16 line between Yelahanka and Bangarpet in Karnataka into bread gauge tine

Shri V. Krishna Rao

(ii) Need to ban the m~nufadure and sale of 16-17 Ammonium Sulphide in the country

Shri Ram Lal Rahi

(iii) Need to revise the Scheduled Castes/ 17 Sched uled Tribes list and provide more facilities to backward classes

Shri Uttam Rathod

(iv) Need to 3et up the proposed project for 18 exploitation of nickel in Sukinda region of Orissa

Shri Anadi Charan Das

(v) Need to set up full-fledged Doordarshan 18 Kendras in towns having cultural heritage, specially at Varanasi in Uttar Pradesh

Shri Anil Shastri (ii) CoLUMNS

(vi) Need to set up Purchase Centres in the cotton 18-19 producing districts of Madhya Pradesh

Shri Laxmi Narain Pandey

(vii) Need for steps to maintain ecological 19 balance in the country

Shri Ramashray Prasad Singh

(viii) Need to take measures for normalising 19-20 relations between India and Pakistan

Prof. Saifuddin Soz

(;x) Need to take necessary steps for an amicable 20 solution of the Punjab problem

Shri Mandhata Singh

Motion of Confidence in the Council of Ministers 20-107 110-131

Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh 20-21 116-131

Shri A.R. Antulay 25--46

Shri L.K. Advani 47-60

S.hri Janeshwar Mishra 60-69

Shri Somnath Chatterjee 69-75

Shri lndarjit Gupta 75-84

Shri R. Muthiah 84-85

Shrimati Rajinder Kaur BuJara 86-89

Shri Nani Bhattacharya 89-90

Shri Chitta Basu 90-95

Shri Piyare Lal Handoo 95-100 (iii) CoLUMNS

Shri Shibu Soren 100-101

Shri Ibrahim Sulaiman Sait 101-104

Shri Vamanrao Mahadik 104-106

Shri Gopalrao Mayekar 110-113

Shri P.C. Thomas 113-114

Shri .A.K. Roy 114-116

Supplementary Demands for Grants (General), 1989-9<;>­ 47 Statement presented

Statement by Minister 108-110 ,e: US intervention in Panama

Shri I.K. Gujral 108-109

Message from Aajya Sabha 131-132

Constitution (Sixty-second amendment) Bill 132 As Passed by Rajya Sabha-Laid

LOK SABHA DEBATES

LOKSABHA (2) The Nagaland University Bill, 1989

(3) The Direct Tax laws (Second Amendment) Bill, 1989. Thursday, December 21, 19S9lAgrahay­ ana 3D, 1911 (Saka) 2. .Sir, I aiso lay on the Table copies, duty authenticated by the Secretary-Gen­ eral of Rajya Sabha, of the following four Bills passed by the Houses of Parliament The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the Clock during the second part of the Fourteenth Session of Eighth Lok Sabha and assented [~,,~R. SPEAKER in the Chair] to since a report was 1ast made to the House on the 11th October~ 1989:- {English] (i) The Warehousing Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 1989

MEMBER SWORN (2) The General Insurance Business (Nationalisation) Amendment Bill, MR. SPEAKER: Secretary-General may ':989 call out the names of Members who have not yet taken the Oath or made the Affirmation. {3} The Snlallindustries Development Bank of India Bin, 1989 Shri Kapil Dev Shastri (Sonepat) (4) ThE: Customs (Amendment) Bill, 1989,

11.02 hrs.

ASSENT TO BillS 11.03 hrs. [Eng/ish] INTRODUCTION OF MINISTERS SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I lay on the Table the following three Bills passed by [Eng/ish] the Houses of Parliament during the second part of the Fourteenth Session of Eighth Lok MR.SPE,~KER: The Prime Minister. Sabha and assented to since a report was last made to the House on the 11 th October t THE PR!~AE MIN:STER (SHRI VISH­ 1989:- WANATH PRATAP SINGH): I have the pleasure in introducing to you and ihrough (1) The Appropriation (No.5) Bill, 1989 you, Sir, to the House my colleagues: 3 Introduction of DECEMBER 21, 1989 Ministers 4

Shri Arun Kumar Nehru Minister of Commerce and Tourism.

Shri M.S. Gurupadaswamy Minister of Petroleum and Chemicals.

Shri Ram Vilas Paswan Minister of Labour and Welfare.

[English] [English]

MR. SPEAKER: Now statements under SHRI BHOGENDRAJAH (Madhubani): rule 377. The !ssue of US aggression is a non-party affair. The whole House must condemn SHRI SAIFUDDfN CHOUDHURY it ... (Interruptions) (Katwa): Before we take up the other issue, I have to make a submission. I have given a [ Translation] notice under rule 184. Yesterday, a very dangerous thing has taken place. USA had MR. SPEAKER: Alright, the Govern­ attacked Panama and dethroned the Gov­ ment has taken note of your sentiments and ernment there. Now, this has been widely it will do whatever is necessary. condemned by many countries. I think that our Government should also join in the world­ [English] wide condemnation. Even the Security Council is meeting there. And this will also SHRI ERA ANBARASU (Madras Cen­ hetp the members there in the Body to take tral): I have given a Calling Attention Notice a firm stand. I want that the Foreign Affairs that five Custom officials from Thanjavur Minister should make a statement in that have been taken into custody by the LTIE. regard. Nothing is known about that for the last 11 days. What is the Government doing about [ Trans/ation] it? i want the External Affairs Minister to make a statement regarding that. MR. SPEAKER: Alright. I may tell the hon. Members that all their notices would be [ Translation] considered. Right now, I am asking Shri V. Krishna Rao to raise a matter under Rule MR. SPEAKER: Alright. 377. Please allow me to proceed with the business before the House. [English]

... ( Interruptions) ... SHRI ERA ANBARASU: Regarding invasion on Panama also I have given a [English] notice ... ( Interruptions)

SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Sivaganga): The discussion can take place later on, but I sought your permission to raise in this the Government should make its stand clear. House the anti-reservation stir which is Government should condemn the US action spreading from one State to another. This is of aggression ... (Interruptions) because this Government is speaking in so many voices. Bus services have been sus­ [ Translation] pended in UP. Planes have not landed in Patna. Students have been asked to vacate MR. SPEAKER: O.K. the hostels. The Allahabad High Court has 5 Introduction of AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Ministers 6 intervened. The Government is maintaining both in the House and outside it. I would like a total silence on this. They must make a to know whether Shri Devi Lal is behind the statement today as to what is their position. anti-reservation agitation ... (Interruptions) ...

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (Baramulla): MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. As for' American action in Panama kindly accept my Calling Attention on this. Sec­ DR. RAJENDRA KUMARI BAJPAI ondly, I have given notice of a Calling Atten­ (Sitapur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, life has been tion Motion on communalism in the ·country paralysed in whole of Uttar and I have also given a notice of a motion Pradesh ... (Interruptions) ... under rule 193. I want a full-scale discussion on what happened in Bhagalpur and who MR·. SPEAKER: I have allowed only Dr. were responsible for that. So kindly allow Rajendra Kumari Bajpai to speak. that under rule 193. ... ( Interruptions) ... MR. SPEAKER: I will look· into it. DR. RAJENDRAKUMAAIBAJPAI: Life THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION has come to a halt all over Uttar Pradesh. AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF Students are agitating. Two students have PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. lost their lives. Buses have stopped plying, UPENDRA): The Government has taken schools, colleges and Universities have been note of the US action in Panama Govern­ closed down, and running of Railways trains ment has already issued its reaction. I will has also been stopped. Even then the Gov­ request the External Affairs Minister to come ernment is totally silent. I would like to know before the House and make a statement the policy of the Government on the issue? after the lunch break. SHRI LALOO PRASAD (Chapra): Mr. [ Translation] Speaker, Sir, a Bill on reservation is being brought, which will make the position as to SHAI JAGPAL SINGH (Hardwar): Mr. who is in favour of whom. In fact the reality is Speaker, Sir, I have also given a notice. ... ( Interruptions) ... Please listen to me. MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Chidambaram, MA. SPEAKER: O.K. Please speak. this is not good. Please listen to him also.

SHRI JAGPAL SINGH: I have given a SHRI LALOO PRASAD: The hon. notice on the issue of reservation. In para Member, Shri Jagpal Singh, is referring to No. 13 of his Address, the hon. President Shri Devi Lal again and again because he has said that the period of reservation would was an aspirant for the Janata Oal ticket in be extended by another 10 years and the the elections, which was denied to him by Han. Prime Minister has also made a com­ Shri Devi Lal. mitment in this regard. However, Shri Devi Lal, made a statement on 17th and 18th of SHRIJANAAOAN TIWARI (Siwan): Sir, this month against the extensior. of the Indian cricketers in Pakistan were target reservation ... (/nterruptions) ... which made of brick-batting. My submission to the Gov­ head lines in all leading national dailies. Mr. ernment is not to allow the Indian team to Speaker, Sir, so I would like to know whether play matches with Pakistan in future. Matches the views of Shri Devi Lal are different from are played in India also but such ugly inci­ those of the Hon. Prime Minister? This is a dents never take place here. Therefore, my very serious matter ... Shri Devi Lal has said submission is not to allow the Indian team to that he will launch an agitation on the issue play with Pakistan. 7 DECEMBER 21, 1989

( Translation) SHRI RAMJIlAl SUMAN (Firozabad): Mr. Speaker. Sir, the Government must SHRI ANAOI CHARAN DAS (Jaipur): clearly speD out its social policy and the hone Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Govemment has time Home Minister should make a statement in and again made it clear that the reservation this regard. Those who are no more in power will continue till some (iepision is taken about are creating trouble in the CX)untry. I would it But I would like to know ... (lnte"uptions) ... urge upon the Hon. Home Minister to take a statement in this regard without any further (English] delay. The Government should have a clear­ cut social policy. The Government should SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, I have deal firmly with those who are opposing the raised a point. The Government should come reservation policy. forward with a statement on my point. SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA (South SHRt Y.S. RAJASEKHAR REDDY Delhi): The hone Home Minister or the Hon. (Cuddapah): Sir, I have given a Calling Prime Minister should come out with a state­ Attention notice with regard to the distress ment on the situation in Kashmir, the kidnap­ sale d onions. The onion growers are facing ping of the daughter of Home Minister t func­ acute difficulty because the NAFED which is tioning of the Congress (I)-National confer­ supposed to buy onions at Rs. 120/- a bag ence Government and hoisting of Pakistani has gone back and the onion growers are on flags in that State. The State Government continuous hunger strike. I request the Min­ should be dismissed today itsAlf, anti-na­ ister of Agriculture to come forward and tional activities should be curbed and Artic'e make a statement with regard to the pur­ 370 should be abrogated. chase of onions by the NAFED. .SHRt NITISH KUMAR (Barh): Mr. MR. SPEAKER: t am coming. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we still hear of communal riots Banatwafla in Bh~alpur in Bihar. Two days back there were incidents of bomb blast in Munghyr. ( Translation] There is uninterrupted State of communal tension in that State. Human skeletons are SHAI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani): still being unearthed in Bhagalpur. In that

Mr. Speaker. Sir t I am raising a very serious State, the Congress (I) Government has matter in the House. There have been seri­ completely failed in checking the ioc;jents of ous disturbances and bloodshed both on the communal riots. The law and order situation eve of the eledions and after them, but the is also very bad. The State Government is Government is silent. Till date the Govern­ encouraging the anti-reservation movement. ment has not come out with any statement. So I would like to request the Central Gov­ In 8hagatpur, thousands of people are Jiving ernment to !ntervene in the matter and dis­ in camps. They do not have adequate doth­ miss the Bihar Government. ing to protect themselves from the biting cold. What immediate steps are proposed to [English] be taken by Government. The Government must come forward with a statement on the SHRI CHIRANJI LAL SHARMA (Kar~ issue and a discussion should be allowed on nal): Mr. Speaker, Sir t a very ticklish situ­ that in the House. ation has arisen in this country on the prob­ lem of reservations. The hon. Prime Minister PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (Baramutla): was pleased to say that reservations will Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have given a notice under continue at least for 10 years to come. But Rule 193 for a discussion on this subject. the hon~ Deputy Prime Minister was pleased to make a statement in Chandigarh and MR. SPEAKER: I will look into it. ~Isewhere also that he will fight in the party 9 Introduction of AGRAHAYANA 30. 1911 (SAKA) MinisterS 10 and within the Government that reservation the terrC?fists who have abduded one of the should be made on the basis of economic Indians. backwardness. This statement of the Dep­ uty Prime Minister has given rise to this [ Translations] agitation in Uttar Pradesh which is headed by the Chief Minister Shri Malayam Singh SHRI LALOO PRASAD: Please ex­ Vadav, who is the chela of the Deputy Prime punge the word "chela" from the proceed­ Minister. (/nterruptio,1s) ings.

I request the hone Prime Minister to SHRI VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA make a categorical statement as to which of (Delhi Sadar): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the two statements the Government is going to draw your attention to the fact that elec­ to adhere to. tions to the Delhi Corporation and the Delhi Metropolitan Council are being deferred for MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mulayam Singh the last three years. The Delhi Corporation Yadav is the Chief Minister. had been elected for a term of four years but the Congress (I) behaved in a most undemo­ Shri K.C. Tyagi cratic and unethical manner by giving it yearly extensions and thus extended its term to full [ Translation] seven years. The Metropolitan Council was also constituted for a term of five years and it was also extended upto seven years. SHRI K.C. TYAGI. (Hapur): Shri Mu­ Hence, the Government should immediately layam Singh Yadav has been a member of dissoive the Metropolitan Council and the Congress tor the iast 40 years, when these Municipal Corporation. Dissolution of these people were quite unknown. This agitation in bodies is a must as they are presentJy exist­ U.P. is r)ot his doing because his Govern­ ing on the basis of unethical extensions ment haS been there in power only for the given to them by the Congress (I). There last few days. In fact, it is the Congress (f) should not be any further delay in this which is spearheading the anti-reservatton rnatter ... (Interruptions) ... movement in Uttar Pradesh. SHRI PHOOLCHAND VERMA [English] (Shajapur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Congress (I) is using the reservation issue to inc:te the SHRI tvtJ. AKBAR (Kishanganj): Sir, I youths In Madhya Pradesh. It is adversely have a slightly different question on the affecting the law and order situation in that tragedy of Miss Rubaiya Sayeed. We should State. The life of the common man has like to know whether she was blind-folded become difficult because of shooting and during her abduction and captivity, as has arson. It has given rise to lawlessness. Hence happened to some hostages all over or the Congress (I) Government in that State whether she was aware of what was hap­ should be dismissed Law and order situation pening to her. We also want to know what in that $tate has taken a serious turn as the she has revealed to the Union Home Ministry Congress (I) Govemmertt is addjng fuel to and to the Government and why there has the fire in the anti-reservation movement. been a shroud of silence on some questions, Hence for maintaining law and order in which the nation, I think, demands to know. Madhya Pradesh it has become absolutely For example, where she was held, what was necessary that the Congress (I) Govern­ the route, what were their captive activities ment of the State is immediately dismissed and whether the Home Minister has taken ... (lnte"uptions) ... action against the captors and abductors or whether there has been some more deal on MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. All of this subject between the Government and you, please sit down, I am on my legs. Now 11 Introduction of DECEMBER 21 t 1989 Ministers 12

we are taking up matters under Rule 377 SHRI BANWARI LAl PUROHIT: Sir, because you will get plenty of time to speak the recent incident in Kashmir should be on these issues during the discussion the strongly condemned. Terrorists who have President's Address and the Vote of Confi­ killed thousands of innocent people, have dence. been exchanged forthe kidnapped daughter pf the hon. Home Minister. I would like to say ... ( Interruptions) .... that. .. (Interruptions) ...

MR. SPEAKER: I am listening. I have [English] asked hon. Shri Sait to speak. THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND [Eng/ish] MIN ISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI ARIF MOHAMMAD KHAN): You ask Kashmir Please allow me to proceed. Government. .. (Interruptions).

... ( Inte"uptions) ... [ Translation]

[ Trans/ation] SHRI BANWARI LAL PUROHIT: Would there have been a similar agreement if the MR. SPEAKER: You are speaking with­ daughter of an ordinary citizen had been out my permission. Nothing will go on record. kidnapped? In fact, it is a stigma on ou~ Please sit down. I have allowed only Shri country and its laws. I would like to know Sulaiman Sait to speak. from the Government the grounds on which those people responsible for thousands of ... ( Interruptions) ... cold-blooded killings and various other of­ fences have been released? We would like SHRI BANWARI LAL PUROHIT: Sir, to have a reply from the Government. In fact, you are not paying no attention to sitting here the law has been thrown to the on the back benches. winds .. .(lnterruptions) ... This august House and entire country would like to know the role MR. SPEAKER: I pay more attention to of the Government in this case. Even the the back-benchers. masses of this countrywantto knowfrom the Han. Prime Minister ... (lnterruptions) ...... ( Inte"uptions) ... MR. SPEAKER: Anything spoken with­ SHRI IBRAHIM SULAIMAN SAlT out my permission, will not go on record. I am (Manjeri): Mr. Speaker, Sir, han. Members giving an opportunity to everyone. have drawn your attention to the communal situation in the country ... (Interruptions) ...... ( Interruptions) ... there should be a discussion on it but just now you have said that now the House is [English] going to take up matters under Rule 377. , would liketo know the time when there will be SHRI S. KRISHNA KUMAR (Ouilon): a discussion on the communal situation in Sir, we demand from the Government a the country and the stand of the Government statement. We request you that you give a in this regard and when the Government is direction to the Government to make a state­ going to make a statement. It is a very ment on the anti-reservation stir, including dangerous situation that has developed in the controversial statement of the Deputy the wake of communal disturbances in Prime Minister. We also want a statement on Nagaur in Rajasthan and in Bhaga\pur. So the abduction of the 'ndian customs staff by there should be a discussion on this matter L TTE. Both are very important issues of in the House .... (Interruptions) ... national interest. 13 Introduction of AGRAHAYANA30, 1911 (SAKA) Ministers 14

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Sivaganga): a point of order, Mr. Speaker, and seek your You can direct the Government to make a ruling. I want to know whether you have statement. (Interruptions) permitted an impromptu brief debate on the President's address. The President has [ Trans/ation] spoken on almost all the issues raised in the House this morning. All these issues are MR. SPEAKER: I cannot force the undoubtedly of crucial importance. The time Government to make a statement. (Interrup­ to raise and discuss them will be the time tions) when the House takes up discussion on the President's Address. I want your ruling. At [Eng/ish] the same time, I appeal to both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition to MR. SPEAKER: No. One at a time. restrain their supporters so that we can get on with the business of the day. The only new SHRI NATHU SINGH (Oausa): Every­ issue raised this mornjng is the US attack on body is asking questions though it is not Panama. The Government has agreed to Question Hours.lcannotunderstandwhether come forward and make a statement on the it is zero Hour or Question Hour. (Interrup­ subject. We should. therefore, now hear the tions) Minister for External Affairs on the subject. Yesterday all of us pledged fuft support and [ Translation] cooperation to you as the Speaker in con­ ducting the House. I, therefore, appeal to all MR. SPEAKER: You please sit down. Members to keep their word and allow this When one of the Members is speaking first House to get on with the business of the day. you should lister. to him. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE SHRI NATHU SINGH: Mr. Speaker, (Bolpur): Shall we get on with the business? Sir, law and order is a state subject. I have ( Interruptions) also given a notice regarding the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. As law and order is a MR. SPEAKER: Order. Let us hear Shri state subject, State Government is respon­ P. Upendra. sible for whatever is happening" in the State of Jammu & Kashmir. (Interruptions) ( Interruptions) [ Translation] Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a matter of that the Congress Party has made a statement that SHRI R.N. RAKESH (Chail): Mr. terrorists have been released under pres­ Speaker, Sir, the issue of reservation is a sure from the Central Government. Mr. constitutional one and the Parliament is alone Speaker, Sir, it is a wrong statement. (Inter­ empowered to take decision on it. The Prime ruptions) Minister has undermined the authority of Parliament by making a statement about Sir, J would like to urge upon the Gov­ reservation outside Parliament. He has acted ernment that the State Government of Jammu against the reservation for Scheduled Cates & Kashmir is responsible for the deteriorat­ and Scheduled Tribes. I allege that his de­ ing law and order situation in the State. The sign and intention do not appear to be good. State Government should be dismissed and The on-going movement against reserva­ the state should be brought under Presi­ tion is an outcome of the statement made by dents rule. (Interruptions) the Prime Minister. The Deputy Prime Minis­ ter has also committed contempt of Parlia­ tEnglishl ment by making a statement outside Parlia­ ment on the reservation issue which is to be SHRIINDERJIT (Darjeeling): I rise on decided- by Parliament. 15 Introduction of Ministers DECEMBER 21 t 1989 Afattets under RullI 377 18

MR. SPEAKER: Now you take your reply to the debate, they will touch upon seat. every subject that the hon. Members have raised and they will clarify the points. (Inter­ SHRI KESHARI LAl (Ghatampur): They ruptions) have created a disorderly situation through­ out the country. MR. SPEAKER: Now, Matters Under Rule 377. Shri Krishna Rac. MR. SPEAKER: You please take your seat, the Minister has riSen to speak.

(' nterruptiont:) 11.37 hrs.

[English] MATTERS UNDER RULE 3n

THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION [Eng/ish] AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. {i} Need to convert the narrow gauge UPENDRA): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Railway line between Valahanks Member have raised a number of issues. and Bangarpet in Karnataka Into ( Interruptions) broad ~ -.lage line

[ Translation] SHRi V. KRISHNA RAO (ChikbaUapur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Railway line between MR. SPEAKER: P!ease listen to the Yelahanka to Bangarpet is very old and it is Minister also. not catering to the needs of the people fulty. This narrow-gauge has to be converted into \ Interruptions) broad-gauge line immediately as it is one of the majOr dem ands of the people of Karna­ [English] taka particularly Chikkaballapura and Shiol­ Jaghatta area. SHRI P. UPENDRA: Sir, kindly see that when you give permission to somebody. let The farmers of these areas are in great them observe the discipline. (Interruptions) difficulty. The potato ~roduced by these people is going waste and the loss every MR. SPEAKER: I am coming to you month is about severallakhs of rupees. The tater. farmers have to export potato to Singapur, Rangoon and many other foreign countries. ( Interruptions) In addition to the agriculturists. the conver­ - sion of this line will help thousands of other SHRI P. UPENDRA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, merchants and many other daily passen­ the hon. Members have rai"~ed a number ot gers. issues. We have inherited a number of prob­ lems-not only these problems which they I, therefore, strongly urge upon the hon. have raised, but a number of problems. Railway Minister to took into this matter at Some of them have been included in the the earliest. President's Address. We are going to have a [ Translation] three-day fuU debate on the Preskient's Addross. Hon. Members are free to express (Ii) Need to ban the manufacture and their views and the Government will not run sale of Ammonium Sulphide In the away from any problems. We wilt give an­ country swer to aU the issues that they have raised. When the Ministers and the Prime Minister SHAI RAM lAl RAHI (Misrkh): I would 17 Matters under AGRAHAYANA30.1911 (SAKA) Ru1e377 18 like to draw the attention of the Government (Iv) Need to set up the proposed proj­ of India to the every increasing use of a very ect for exploitation of Nickel In poisonous drug Amonium Sulphide com­ Sukinda region of Orissa monly known as sulphas which is used as a pesticide for the protection of crops and SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS (Jajpur): foodgrains. But this drug is so poisonous and Government of India had sanctioned a proj­ fatal that no one can survive after swallowing ect in 1974 for the exploitation of Nickel in the even one tablet of it. Sukinda area of Orissa where Nickel ore is available in large quantities (155 million In our family life, whenever young men tonnes). Foundation stone for the proposed and women are fed up with their lives due to project was also laid. Although more than 15 some reason, they generally commit suicide years have passed, the-project has not _yet by consuming sulphas. AccoFd~ng to ·my been set up and valuable foreign exchange estimate, in Northern India, particularly in continues to be wasted for importing nickel U.P. and Bihar, more than five thousand when large quantities of nickel ores are persons commit suicide every year by con­ available within the country. I, therefore, suming sulphas. I had written to the then request the Government of India, to set up Un'ion Health Minister in July 1978 in this this project which will lead to local develop­ regard. Though. the matter was examined ment and production of a strategic material but it was not considered feasible ban the on the one hand and considerable saving of sale of sutphas in the open market. valuable foreign exchange on the other.

I would like to urge upon the Govern­ (v) Need to set up full fledged Door­ ment that sale and manufacture of Ammo­ darshan Kendras in towns having nium Sulphide should be completely banned cultural heritage, especially at and manufacture of some such pesticide Varanasi in Uttar Pradesh should be ensured for the protection of crops and foodgrains which may not be fatal for SHRI AN1LSHASTRI (Varanasi): Need human beings and animals. is felt to set up Doordarshan Kendras in towns having cultural heritage. The Govern­ (ilij Need to rev'ise the Scheduled ment, therefore, must draw up a plan to Castes/Scheduled Tribes list and include towns like Varanasi for a full fledged provide more facitiUes to backward Doordarshan Kendra. , request the Minister classes of Information and Broadcasting to take steps in this direction on an urgent basis. {English] [ Translalion] SHRI UTTAM RATHOD (Hirigoli): The Government of India have been assuring the (vi) Need to set up Purchase Centres backward classes more facilities under Ar­ in the COtton producing districts tide 340. In spite of severai Commissions, of Madhya Pradesh these assurances have not been fuHilled so far. The backward classes-are frustrated due DR. LAXMINARAYAN PANDEY to the attitude of the Government. (Mandsaur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to rais~ the following matter under Rule 3n:- The revision of S.C. and S.T. List under Article 341 and Article 342 has not been The farmers in the cotton producing taken up so far. districts of Madhya Pradesh, particularly in the Nimad area. are suffering heavy finan· Both these proposals require immedi­ cial losses due to delay in the setting up of ate consideration and action by the Govern­ purchase centres by the Cotton Corporation ment. of India. The farmers have suffered losses to 19 Matters under Rule 377 DECEMBER 21, 1989 Motion of Confidence 20 in Council of Ministers [Dr. Laxminarayan Pandey] and visa restrictions will, of course, remain but these could be made less stringent. the tune of crores of rupees due to the policy of the Cotton Corporation of India. Govern­ What the Central Govemment can take ment is, therefore, requested to set up pur­ notice of is that Russian Perestroika has chase centres in the cotton producing dis­ swept the entire world, especially Europe tricts of Madhya Pradesh without any delay. and more particularly Eastern part of Eu­ rope. The Berlin wall is gone.··Why can't a (vii) Need for steps to maintain ecologi­ road which used to be the main link between cal balance In the country Kashmir and the then Punjab, be opened with precautions that are necessary. SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD SINGH (Jahanabad): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like This step will go a long way to heal the to raise the following matter under Rule 377:- wounds and normalise relation between India and Pakistan. There should be a uniform law through­ out the country for mai~tenance of ecologi­ (ix) Need to take necessary steps for cal balance and social awareness should be an amicable solution of the Punjab created among the people to abide by the problem law. The Government would also have to create a social awakening among the people. SHRI MANDHATA SINGH (Lucknow): The healing touth given to Punjab by the The Government is, therefore, requested present Government has probably paved to set up more and more national parks to the way for an amicable solution of the maintain ecological balance. Punjab tangle. Now the hard task of coming to grips with concrete problems like the river [English] water and territorial disputes, publication of Thakkar Commission Report on Indiraji's (viii) Need to take measures for normal­ assassination and the Misra Commission ising relations between India Report on the 1984 riots followed by conse­ and Pakistan quential action should find top priority on the Government's agenda. This is bound to' PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (Baramulla): assu'age the hurt feelings of the brave Sikh India did not have a favourable response in community and usher in a new era of emo­ the past in its moves towards improvement tional and national integration in the country in the relations with Pakistan. True, that resulting in isolating the separatist tendeh­ Pakistan has not been warm to India's ges­ cies. tures of goodwill extended at various points of time in the past, yet the fact remains that India has to strive for friendship with Paki­ stan. The friendship between the'two coun­ 11.46 hrs. tries is decidely mutuany advantageous. MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE In any case, beginning has to be made COUNCIL OF MINISTERS in some areas to normalise relations. Proto­ cols have been signed for cultural exchanges [English] etc. These protocols need to be implemented and strengthened further. MR. SPEAKER: Prime Minister.

Government should make a move and THE PRIME MINISTER (SHAI VISH­ take up with Pakistan the question of open­ WANATH PRATAP SINGH): Sir, I beg to 'ing Srinagar-Rawalpindi road. The passport move: 21 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 22

"That this House expresses its confi­ and since the electronic machines cannot be dence in the Council of Ministers." operated, the other procedure is that the head counting can be taken and probably AN HON. MEMBER: Is there anybody that would be better. seconding the Motion? [ Translation] [ Translation] MR. SPEAKER: That will be decided MR. SPEAKER: The motion is not later on. required to be seconded. [English] [English] SHRJ P. UPENDRA: I would also re­ THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION quest you to keep in mind that the Hon. AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF Membe~s wanted a statement by the Exter­ PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI P. nal Affairs Minister. We have scheduled it at UPENDRA): Sir, about the procedural as­ 5 O'clock as per your orders. pects I want to make on or two submissions. Originally we thought since this mot4on is Forthe quicker voting process I suggest only meant to assess the strength enjoyed that counting of heads may be taken. by the Government, we could straightway take up the voting without much discussion. SHRI G.M. BANA~ALLA (Ponnani): When we made this proposal to the Hon. The Hon. Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Leader of the Opposition, he wanted a dis­ has enlightened the House about the proce­ cussion and the Government is prepared for dure that he envisages. He has made a few a discussion. He also suggested that one points. Firstly, he has said that four hours member from each party may be permitted can be allotted and we can have the reply to speak. For your approval I will submit that accordingly. I suggest that this should not be we may agree to the proposal and one taken as a rigid time scheduled, because, member from each party may be asked to now, we know by our experience that as the speak. We may allot totally four hours includ­ thing proceeds, the tail-enders who come ing the reply and the voting. Therefore we last, are at a great loss. So, it should be can go upto 4 O'clock with the discussion, subject to the requirement that one Member the Prime Minister can reply at 4 O'clock and from each party must have the full time at his the voting may be taken at 4.30 p.m. disposal.

MR. SPEAKER: Shall we observe the [ Translation] lunch break or not? MR. SPEAKER: At present, it is four SHRI P. UPENDRA: It is upto you Sir. hours. " the Members want more time, we can skip the lunch break. [English] SHRI G.M. BANAlWALLA: Secondly, AN HON. MEMBER: We should have in a very casual manner he said that we lunch break Sir. should forego the lunch hour and that Members can go, have the lunch and come SHRI P. UPENDRA: Those who want back. (Interruptions) This is a serious issue. can go out for tunch and come back and the This cannot be taken in such a casual man­ House may continue the discussion. ner. We should listen to each and every Member. Therefore, such a casual attitude About the voting process, since there is should not coma befora the House. (Inter­ no division number allotted to each member ruptions) \ 23 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21. 1989 Council of Ministers . 24

[ Translation] '11lat this House expresses its confi­ dence in the Council of Ministers-. MR. SPEAKER: Why are you making a noise he is replying to the point. SHAI A.R. Antulay.

[English] ( Interruptions)

SHRI P. UPENDRA: Sir, it was not said MR. SPEAKER: The issue is before the in a casual manner. (Interruptions) To forego House. I have called upon Mr. Antulay to the lunch hour is not a new thing. I reacted to speak. the question from that side about the lunch. Several times it happened in both the Houses. ( Interruptions) (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: let us now hear Mr. MR. SPEAKER: Let there be no dis­ Antulay. pute. The point is are we in favour of having lunch. ( Interruptions)

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: No. (inter­ MR. SPEAKER: I have not permitted ruptions) anyone except Mr. Antulay.

MR. SPEAKER: Let us not have lunch ( Interruptions) hour. MR. SPEAKER: An the Members can ( Interruptions) take their seats. I am on rny legs.

[ Translation] ( Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: At present four hours [ Translation] have been allotted for discussion on it. We will see !ater on as to what can·-be done. I AN HON. MEMBER: He is**. What have sensed the feelings of the J:iFJuse. about Cement. (Interruptions)

[English] MR. SPEAKER: I will not like to repeat what I heard. That is unparliamentary and SHRI RAJ IV GANDHI (Amethi): It is not will not go on record. just a question of lunch. We will decide on lunch. That is not the problem. It is the ( Interruptions) prerogative of the House to decide on the lunch. But the question is of taking the House MR. SPEAKER: I will not like to repeat forgranted.lthink, it isan insulttothe House. what I heard. That is unparliamentary and (Interruptions) will not go on record. Harishji kindly sit down.

SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE ( Interruptions) (Panskura): The House should be taken seriously. Those who are saying this, I only MR. SPEAKER: Please listen to me. hope, will actually remain in House and listen You are a member of the ruling party. The to the discussion. (Interruptions) hon. Prime Minister has moved the Motion. Please sit down. MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved: ( Intenvptione)*

**Expunged as ordered by the Chair. *Not recorded. 2S IIDtion of ~Ident» in AGRAHA YANA 30. 1111 (SAICA) Council of Ministers 26

(EngiSh) disa lSSion. My point of order is that will he be treated as the first member to speak. MR. SPEAKER~ No. I have not given permisSion. let me eam~ request the [English) hone Members that we should conduct our­ selves in a dignified manner. Shri Antulay ... MR. SPEAKER: It has already started. There is no pojnt of order. SHRI A.R. ANTULAY (Kulaba): Sir, I thank you for the ruling that you have given. SHRIA.R.ANTULAY: Sir. ours is avery Today we have a motion before this House. big country with ancient traditions. We are I do not believe nor do I know of any such the biggest democracy in the world and we motion having been tabled in the annals of are proUd of it. the history of Parliament-surely not of this LokSabha. [ Translation)

Why was it necessary to have this SHRI BHAJAN LAl (Faridabad): You motion? The very fact that such a motion had will have to hold classes. to be tabled for discussion demonstrates that the confidence that the Government SHAt PHOOlCHAND VERMA: Mr. should enjoy at the time of the appointment Speaker, Sir, These points can be raised by of the Prime Minister by the President was him during the course of his speech. lacking or was in doubt. As a result the President direded, Sir, for the first time to 12.00 hrs. ask the Prime Minister to demonstrate that he enjoys the support of the majority of the [English] House. SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: On the attain­ SHRI RAM NAIK (Bombay North): Sir, ment of_, we ~eddemoc­ t rise on a point of order. racy in the oountry under the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of ( Inte"Lptions) order. let us hear Mr. Antulay. MR. SPEAKER: I am requesting the [ Translation] Members not to disturb Mr. Antulay since it is his maiden speech. It is a weU-estabIished SHRJ PHOOLCHANO VERMA practice in the House. I request the Members (Shajapur): You cannot stop us from raising to take their seats. Yes, Mr. Antulay. .. points of order. SHRI A.R ANTULA Y: In a country like (English) ours, which has unity in diversity, as PandiIji aptty put it, we need a very strong Centre, MR. SPEAKER: All right. let me hear and we can have no quarrel about that. With your point of order. the kind of federalism which is enshrined in the Constitution of India, it is ultimately the ( Intenvptions) Centre which has to see that the unity and integrity. the independence and the sover­ ( Translation1 eignty are ensured.

SHRI RAM NAI< (North Bombay): My • is admItedly' a minority Govemmed. point of order is that the debate has not yat • is a minority Government supported."two started Md the point being considered is _ other parties. Hare. we ..the largest ... to how much time should be aIIa1I8d tor the party. (~Thepeapleof India ...: 27 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21,1989 Council of Ministers 28

[She A.A. Antulay] legs, it is not correct to disturb him while speaking. H they want us to do the same soverign. The electorate have returned thing when the honourable leader of the us ... (Interruptions) House, the Prime Minister, speaks, then we can also do the same ... (lnterruptions) ... AN HON. MEMBER: The people have thrown you out. [ Trans/ation]

SHAI A.A. ANTULAY: No, they have What are you going to achieve? not thrown out. I am coming to that. In my humble submission, it is wrong to say that [English] the people have rejected the Government and installed some other Government in­ You must have some sort of decency. stead. It is not so. It is true that the people did ( Interruptions) not give us the fullest mandate to rule the country. (Interruptions) The people, at the MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Rao, speak to the same time, have not given the Janata Dal­ Chair. which comprises of only one-fourth of this House-the right to rule. Had the people so ( Interruptions) chosen, they would have returned them with the majority which could have then been MR. SPEAKER: Order please. construed as a mandate of the people. ( Interruptions) SHRISOMNATHCHATTERJEE: What is this? (Interruptions) [ Trans/ation]

SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: Allow me to SHRI R. GUNDU RAO: We can say speak and make my point. (Interruptions) these things . ... (lnterruptions) ... We have They have no patience to listen. (Interrup­ got great respect for the Chair. tions) [Eng/ish] SHRI R. GUNDU RAO (Bangalore South): Sir, I am on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: I agree with you.

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, Mr. Gundu Rao, SHRI R. GUNDU RAO: And we have what is your point of order? got great respect for the House. When an hone Member from the Opposition is speak­ SHRI R. GUNDU RAO: The hone ing, they think that they can disturb him. I do Speaker has allowed Mr. Antulay to not know how much control their leader has speak ... ( Interruptions) ... got over them. When their leader speaks, we can also do the same. (Interruptions) [ Trans/ation] MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Nobody Please have patience. will disturb Mr. Antulay. Yes Mr. Antulay.

[English] ( Interruptions)

The Prime Minister will reply at the end. He MR. SPEAKER: Take your seat. is the Leader of this august House and at the same time, Mr. Antulay is also a Member of ( Interruptions) this august House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when you have called him to speak and he is on his SHRIA.R.ANTULAY: Truth is bitter but 29 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 30

it has to be told and also heard. As per the be heard on this point because there is a lot traditions and well established conventions of confusion about it. Let me explain again: of democracy, our leader, who is the leader Presidential election takes place almost two of the largest single party could have been months or one and a haH month in advance. offered the option and could have been But the President Elect does not assume invited to form the government. But the office till the term of the outgoing President President said that since the leader of the expires.· The President who has been in single largest party in the House has de- office quits and the new President is ceremo­ clined out of magnanimity... (Interruptions) .. . f'iously installed with due and dignified in the Yes, that is true, out of generosity .. . Central Hall. Hthis is constitutional position (Interruptions) ... lt is a historical fact which true for the President of India who is the cannot be erased from the pages of guardian of the Constitution of India, the history ... (Interruptions) ... Well, let them try same is more true in case of the Prime permutations and combinations, let the Minister of India who is his first Adviser. But people of India kn~w that they cannot rule as our leader, Shri Rajiv Gandhi recommended they knew in 1977. In fact Sir, it was the the dissolution of the House one and a half single largest party enjoying two-thirds ma­ month before his tenure ended. jority then. Today, it is just the reverse. Whatever be the opinion of the legal experts, So, firstly he refused to form the Gov­ that opinion cannot be elevated to and ernment though he could have. equated with the opinion given by the Su­ preme Court under Article 143. The life of the SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: How? Parliament could have continued till the 14th of January, 1990 legally, constitutionally and SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: They are asking democratically, Sir, even the Presidential me 'how!. Well, he could have gone in more election is held before the expiry of the term. dignified and in a better manner than today's And yet the new President is installed only executive has done. We could have formed on the expiry of the tenure of office of the the Government in a befitting and better outgoing President. Holding election to the manner than what they have done. office of the President earlier does not mean that the President who is incumbent at that ONE HON. MEMBER: Please explain particular point of time has to quit. He does how. Is it in Shri Bhajan Lal's way? not have to quit. Our leader Shri Rajiv Gandhi for whom we have the highest and utmost SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: Sir, again they respect could have continued as. the Prime are asking how. Let them ask Shri Chander Minister till 14th of January 1990, in terms of Shekhar who says that this Government is the Constitution of India, in terms of democ­ born in sin and of fraud. And Shri Chandra racy and in term of well established conven­ Shekhar is no member of Congress (I)! Their ti~ns and tradition. (Interruptions) Ihow' is 'answered directly by no less a per­ son than Shri Chandra Shekhar himself. There is nothing to laugh. You cannot (I nterruptions) laugh away the Constitution of India. You cannot brush aside the Constitution of India. We could have legitimately, democrati­ Nor can your noise still the voice of the cally constitutionally and of course legally largest number of Indian people represented attempted to form the Government and the by this side. I would like the whole world to President could have sworn our leader in as know the constitutional, democratic and the Prime Minister and would have given him factual position. (Interruptions) time to demonstrate his strength, just as the present Prime Minister is given time. But our Ilreat all their objections and interrup­ leader has acted magnanimously. We have . tions with the contempt that they deserve. said. Ino regrets'. But they wiU regret the day (InterruptiOns) Sir, I am afraid I would like to when they formed the Government. It is DECEMBER 21. 1989 Council at ...... rs 32

(Sh. A.R AnIuIay) So, looking to the elsctorata, looking to the people of India, who gave to thereseIves going to be proved. II is going to be the most the Constitution of India, they cJeli)eratety on fatafut and unfortunately i I can say so a very design, coaly on their reflection made sm sinful day as explained by Shri Chandra Rajiv Gandhi, the leader of the single larg­ Shekhar. He relinquished the high offICe and est Party in the House-Congress-I as the recommended dissolution. Single largest Party. Janata Oaf as the Second IaIgest Party. BJP as the Third 1arg­ AN HON. MEMBER: What about Shri est party and the Communists as the Fourth T.... ? largest Party. (IntBfTl¥llions)

SHRI A.R ANTUlAY: Shri Chandra Sir, Lokmanaya Tdak has said that two Shekhar is much younger than Shri Tripa­ girls nine years of age cannot make one thiji. (1ntemJptions) bride. LDkmanya Tilak has wisely said, and everybody knows about it. (Interruptions) They cannot stiI the voice of reason but So, I think the message has gone home. 1he people d India know what the truth is. Now, let us look at the manifesto which was The sovereignty of India extends much put before the people by the sc-cafted Front, beyond this House. The. House is not sover­ because I do not think it does exist. except eign. The people of India are sovereign. for Mr. Unnikrishnan-if I am not very wrong. or Mr. Goswami. .. (/nteffuptions) So, I was making one point and that is in spite of the fad that the people in the South AN HON. MEMBER: He is not a sad out lock, stock and barrel the Govern­ Member.. ( Interruptions) ID8I1l headed by the Chairman of the FIOf1L(lntenuptions) SHRJ A. R. ANTULA Y: I did not want to say that. In the manifesto of the second They cal it a Government by the Front. Iargest-it should be the third Iargest-party. But the Chairman was sent in the dustbin of viz. the BJP and the manifesto ci the Com­ history to lie there. munist Party, what promises were given to the people and what assurances were held The VICe-President of Janata DaJ also out before the electorate? (Interruptions) In was shown the door by the people of Kama­ the morning when I heard that during the taka. Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh zero hour, vario~ questions were being put and Kamataka. .. {lntempti>ns) to the Government, I was myself pitying the plight of the Government. They cannot; they AN HON. MEMBER: What about cannot answer in their own a single question. Maharasl*a? (IntfHl1,fJtions) I any question is to be answered, even in the Cabinet where there is supposed to be a secret discussion which will not be divutged 10 anyone else, the Prime Minister will have SHRI A. R. ANTULAY: ~ be pa­ to mnsult the third largest party, and then the .... Now iI is my tum, let me speak. fourth largest party before hand and tha1 16wIrhJ make up his mind in consultation with sm Devi LaI. I am not ranking the Deputy Prime So. the entire South and 1hen the entire Ministef--whether he is really the fourth or HoIth- East voted for Congress (I). I I am the fifth" •• ( Intetruptions) wmng.lha Prime Minist. or anybody on his ..... can correct me taler on. I do not .. [TransIaIionJ iIIIeIjKtioIts. I am not afraid of them or ....fA ...but it wastes m,time. So. the AH. HON uamER: This is not • ...... NoIth-East _(_ dicIatarship. 33 AIofiDn 01 CotrIidsnce in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) CoIItciI 01 ""is II IS 34

SHRI A.R ANTUlAY: This is not a thing; undoubtadtJ so, that the daughl_ of dictatorship, but there should not be utter the Home Minister should have been kid­ eta. also. napped. We deplore it; we condemn it. and we are very happy that she has been rec0v­ [ErJgishJ ered. but at what cost? Swrendering the sovereignty of the country, of the nation? SHRI SOMNATH CHAITERJEE: Then you admit that it was dictatorship. leaflets are being distrbuted today that they are going to kidnap all others. (htBmf)­ SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: Utter chaos. lions) It is not a question of creating noise; it ( lnIerruptions) is a question of serious concam. concern tor sovereignty and for the future of democracy. I am again reminded, because of that, concern far the future of the coumry iIseI. about the alternative model of Government (Interruptions) I had long passedtheseSlagaa They are taking about alternative model, where I could be shouted down. Personal because they cannot talk of anything else, aUegations and character assassination wiI and be still on the Government. What is the not carry us any further. (/ntentf'lions) alternative model-Presidential system? Alternative model does not mean parliamen­ tary system of Government which is the AN. HON. MEMBER: Very good. model already being practised. They wish to travel outside this model in search or an SHRI A.R. ANTULA Y: Therefore. it is a alternative. It is a model (Interruptions) matter of utmosi concern for the nation; whether they view it as a concern l do not AN. HON. MEMBER: Bofors model? know. but the common man in this country does except from those who are silting hera SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: Nehru model, in the te°mple of democracy, on their behalf, Indira Gandhi model, Lal Bahadur Shastri to behave properly and bahave reasonably model or RajivGandhi model... ( Interruptions) ~eR. Now they forget that they are today in the ruling parties. They were in the 0pposi­ If I were to describe this Government­ tion behaving irresponsibly. They are c0n­ with due apologies to the head of the Gov­ tinuing with the same sort of things which emment and the deputy head of the Govern­ they have been doing for the past three ment and all others who are his colleagues­ years or: so. (lnternptbns) Now can the hone it is two-headed and three-legged. (Interrup­ Prime Minister make his stand clear on Ram tions) Janmabhoomi and Sabri Masjid? I would Iik8 to pose a simple question. I would lite to I do honestly believe that the people did request Advaniji. who is supporting the not bargain for this. They deserved much Govemment from outside, to make their better than this sort of treatment at the hands stand clear on this point, too. Can theJ of those who are now manning the Govern­ together even make their stand clear on this ment. supporting it and running the affairs of point? the country. SHRI l.K. AOVANI (New Oelhi): Out­ So. I was not surprised at all. AU our side. friends here are saying that the Govemment should make its stand clear on the vital AN. HON. MEMBER: What is your issues before the nation. Can they make stand? (/ntern.pions) . their stand clear on anything, on this compo­ siOOn Can they? (Interruptions) SHRI A.R. ANTUlAY: They have no one voice unfortunately. Not onIr the .... Can they? • is a very condemnable parties forming the Gov.-nment cI CGUI88. 35 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21. 1989 Council of Ministers 36

[Sh. A.A. Antulay] to be a Congressman" he had said. Now, does he' claim to be a Congressman? I would but even the Prime Minister and the Deputy like to put that question to him. Or. does he Prime Minister cannot think alike. What is claim to be the President of the Janata Oal? their stand on vital issues the country is ( Interruptions) entitled to know? [ Translation] You have been in the saddle forthe past two-three weeks. Each day counts. As he AN. HON. MEMBER: What happened rightly said, the statement can be made on to the Antulay Congress? Monday or Tuesday, but unfortunately, the ugly things are happening; they cannot wait; SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: Antulay Con­ you are not in a position to stop them be­ gress was not separate from the Congress cause you are thinking with different minds, (I). seeing from different engles speaking with different voices. You have not different ide­ SHRIMAOANLALKHUAANA~o~h ologies. You cannot run a country like this. Delhi): He had left the Ministry but you were (Interruptions) You can talk of national rec­ ousted. (Interruptions) onciliation and national consensus. Yester­ day, I happened to go through the Presi­ [English] denfs Address cursorily. Now I will not make a reference to it because the special debate SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE is there. National consensus is repeated ad (Bolpur): He is moralising. (Interruptions) nauseam as also national reconciliation. What is that? What does that mean? How SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: I am not moral­ many votes are polled by this side? How ·ising. Do not take it that way. I am stating many people have voted for Janata Oal facts which are very hurting to you. which itself was a sort of coalition of the parties before it became Janata Oal from SHRISOMNATHCHATIERJEE: What Janata Party and other parties· a.nd splinter a maiden you have chosenf groups and Morchas. L.et me make it clear that even for the so-called ruling Conglom­ SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: Sir, I can under­ eration, they have to from Congress (I) instal stand the pun of the hon. Member. But it ;s somebody as Prime Minister who is repelled not befitting him. or you have to import somebody from this side. (Interruptions) The han. members who AN. HON. MEMBER: He is constrained did owe-two years ago-allegiance and loy­ to support Janata Oal-what to do unfortu­ alty to out Leader. Shri Rajiv Gandhi, are nately. there. SHRI A.R. ANTULAY: Sir, what are AN. HON. MEMBER: What about you. they going to do about the Tamilians. Who ( Interruptions) are in Sri Lanka?

SHAI A.A. ANTULA Y: I would like to say Now, something was said here with that this was the solemn promise then given regard to the kidnapping of Tamilians. That by Vishwanathji, the Prime Minister to the also is not clear. The Government should whole country that he shall hold aloft the have thought about all these answers. The standard and the banner of Congress-I even Government's reaction should have been if he is an ordinary Congress man: even if he spontaneous even in regard to invasion of is turned out of every organ of the party, and Panama. I have not, at least, read anything, yet he shall still remain a Congress man. what the reaction was. I do not know. I do not "Nobody can snatch that right away from me know whether the leftists and the BJP and 37 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA Y ANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 38

the Janata Dal have made some sort of a hatma Gandhi, PanditJawaharlal Nehru and hotchpotch arrangement with regard to the Indira Gandhi. invasion of Panama. I do not know. Sir, I cannot resist the temptation of only So, Sir, it is neither known in matters of bringing one thing to your-notice. I was a little approach and policies at home that they are flattered when I saw in the Presidential going to pursue nor their attitude to interna­ Address something having been quoted out tional issues. Because to be very honest, - of the amendment which we brought in and and I can claim to have at least an average got passed in 1976, though Address does intelligence-I did not find any policy per­ not make even an acknowledgement of it. I taining to nation or in the sphere of interna­ am flattered. I say this because not only you tional affairs clearly spelt out in the Presiden­ have had to draw upon the people going tial Address. It is all-with due respect-bla, from this side to that side to head your bla, bla no concrete approach, all vague, Government but I think even the Deputy was confused thinking. Almost, I was, reminded once upon a time on this side. The true of either the Fundamental Duties in the opposition Government will come when ei­ Constitution of India which are enumerated ther the Leftist or the BJP attain the strength there, or the Directive Principles of State enough to do so. Till that time, it is going to Policy which are also enshrined in the Con­ be a dis'aster. I think the Prime Minister had stitution of India. Almost a few of them have before he became the Prime Minister said: "if been verbatim reproduced in this Address at all I become Prime Minister, it will be a barring a coma here and a semicolon there disaster". He had said it. Newspapers car­ and a word here and a word there. Now it is ried it. Sir, I did not know that his words would there. You did not have to repeat them in the prove so prophetic. He said: "I did not want Presidential Address. These things are there. any office, but the office was thrust by Mr. I have studied it. It is there in the Directive Devi Lalji"... (Interruptions) Devi Lalji was Principles of State Policy in the Constitution made the leader of the party, properly pro­ of India. It is there in the Fundamental Du­ posed and seconded and applauded. He ties. What you need to do is to say how you thanked the people and said: "Thank you for are going to implement them, in what man­ having reposed confidence in me". And he ner you are going to go about it, in what was declared to be the leader. Now you are manner, what type of government, what type talking about democracy. I am answering of policy, whattype of economic programme, that. Now, Mr. Devi Lal, in his own personal what type of political programme you are individual right said: I appoint so and so .. going to give to the people, with this sort of (Interruptions) What a concensus'. What a Government that is running the country to­ democracy! What kind of democracy!. .. day. (Interruptions) On the next day, the Prime Minister was to be sworn in. Since we hap­ pened to be colleagues some time ago, I was Sir, I am not saying this out of pride. I am watching the TV to see the swearing-in. It saying this in auguish: But I am greatly surprised his friends and the people of India concerned. None of them personally on the when Mr. Devi Lal became the Deputy Prime other side is inimical to me and I do not think Minister... (Interruptions) that they think so. Nor am I! They are all good friends and they should also treat all those Regarding taking Oath-Sir, you have here also as good friends and I hope that given a ruling but the fact remains that the they will. But when my leader, and our leader Oaths prescribed under the Constitution are and the Leader of the Opposition said "con­ only of two types, not of three; whether Shri structive co-operation" he only meant that Sardar Vallababhai Patel, Mr. Morarji Bhai co-operation within the policy, within the or any other, was or was not happen to be the principles, within the framework of the Indian Deputy Prime Minister is irrelevant to the National Congress as enunciated by Ma- issue. The things is, they took Oath as a 39 AfofDn of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council at Afinisttws 40

[She A.R Antulay) oath as Minister, so you be a Minister.· He wanted to be doubty sure. Not only that. In Minister and not as the Deputy Prime Minis­ the same evening, his own son had been ter. I you go through or consul the rae­ sworn as the Chief Minister of Haryana. ords-l have already tried to at the Rashtra­ They are taking of dynastic rule too much. pathi Bhavan-even Shri Sardar Vailababhai Who nominated him? They are taking of Patel took the Oath as a Minister and there­ democracy. They are talking of after he was appointed by PanditJawaharial dictatorship.. .(Jmem.ptkHls) They are tak­ Nehru as the Deputy PrUne Minister. So was ing of Rajivji. Any slid< is -good enough to the Case ¥lith Mr. Uorarji Bhai when ShriJR8ti beat him with. Anyfalsehood is good enough Indira GaOdhi apJ)ointed him as the Deputy to heap'upon his head. I have mysel heald, Prime Minister; he had taken the Oath as a seen and read that Rajivji was being ale­ Minister and then he was appointed as the vated to the level above that of Jawaharlal Deputy Prime Minister..••. ( Interruptions) This Nehru and Indira Gandhi by the than 0ppo­ may be pending in the Court. We have the sition, by - The InOtan ExpresS' Goenkaji hone Members here, elected by the people. said: -Rajiv's India·. Rajivji never claimed The Court may decide ultimately one way or India to be under him. Rajivji atways said: the other. But what does propriety demand? Mahatma Gandhrs India. Thank God that The Court will go by legality or constitution­ the Prime Minister did-not forget Mahatma ality. but democracy cannot run only by the Gandhi when he prepared the draft of the Constitution and the law. It can also run by President's Address. Let me be honest about conventions. And conventions are not part of it. I felt sad. From Vishwanathji I did not the Constitution. What is the convention? He expect this. In this first broadcast which I was flouting the dictate of the President of heard with rept attention, he had forgotten India three times. I was watching on the TV. the Father of the Nation-One should not The President of India said: ·recite this way·. forget the Father. Why? Because he felt that And the number two today it might hurt some of his supporters. Even here... (Interruptions) BJP, after all, had to claim for some time that it believes in Gandhian philosophy. All of AN. HON. MEMBER: "Tau·... (lntenvp­ them had gone to the Samadhi of Mahatma tions) Gandhi in 19n and took their oath admini­ stered by Jayaprakashji. He administered SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: That is a good the oath. Now they are also not talking of name and I like it. I wish he behaves like that. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, the architect of But he flouted the order of the President of modem India, a person who was solely re.. India Because perhaps Oevi Lalji thought sponsible for giving right to vote to the that if he did not take his oath as Deputy common man. There were inteHectuais even Prime Minister, perhaps Vishwanath Pratap at that time who said that unless a person is Singhji might change his mind because the having property or a person is literate or Prime Minister of this country, Vishwanath educated, he should not be given the right of Pratap Singhji, a very good old friend of franchise. I need not name the intellectuals. mine, is known to be indecisive. He cannot It is not good. Most of them are dead by now. grapple with the issues. He is in two minds­ But in this very CentraJ Hall in the Constitu­ to make Deputy Prime Minister or not to ent Assernbly, Panditji stood up like a rock make, to be himseH Prime Minister or not to and said: -, have got more faith in the wisdon be, would it be a disaster or would it not be. and patriotism of the common man of this I think. Devi Lalji to that extent must be country.· And he gave them the right to vote. complimented. He thought: • H I do not take You are forgetting him, a great socialist, the oath as Deputy Prime Minister and by the who, in 1936 under the direction of Mahatma time I go home from Rashtrapati Bhawan, Gandhi when the AleC Committee was the Prime Minister of thiscountfy may change formed, said that sociaftsm is the onfy path his mind and say. no, you have taken the for this country. 41 AIotion of Confidence in AGRAHAV ANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Alinist91S 42

( Translation) to know what the Govemmenfs stand is. If that is the stand of the Government, if that is THE.DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND known to the peopIe ..• (lnte~ions) THE MINISTER OF AGAlCUlTURE (SHRI DEVI tAl): What a socialism they brought! AN. HON. MEMBER: What happened in Punjab during your rule? SHRI A.R. ANTULA Y: One should have wisdom to be able to understand whether SHRIA.R.ANWLAV: Much worse has socialism is good or bad. (Interruptions) happened now. (Interruptions) Sir, the Reso­ lution is passed based on Crip's Mission. Out .lEnglish] of that Cripp's MISSion, a formula was pub­ lished. The late. Mr. Jinnah had then said, -. Sir, I was happy that the Prime Minister see the seeds of Pakistan in this·. Like that referred to Jaya Prakashji, Ram Manohalal with the seeds of what you know, the Reso­ lohiaji. But I should have expected him also lution ~as passed recently. I do not know to refer to the Father of the Nation and Pandit what the stand of the Government is about Jawaharlal Nehru and Subhash Chandra that. Boseji as also Laf Bahadur Shastrijito whom ... (Interruptions) Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru is Now, Sir, they are talking of integrity of no monopoly of Rajivji. He belongs to the the country. What will happen to the country, nation and we all owe him our gratitude they ask? The country will remain in tact. We (Interruptions) And it is not dynasty, let me have handed over to you, under the leader­ tell you. When he died, it was not Smt. Indira ship of Shri Rajiv Gandhi, a united country, Gandhi who became the Prime Minister. the united India. (Interruptions) And you, There was an intervention. PanditJawahar­ unfortunately are presiding over the liquida­ lal Nehru never appointed his own people for tion of it. I hope not and I prey to God not tor life-time like Chautalaji. (Interruptions) After liquidation of that. Sir, my concem is, that it the assassination of it Indiraji, when Rajiv is no good only of making references to the Gandhiji was appointed by the then Presi­ integrity, national consensus, national rec­ dent on the advice of the Congress Parlia­ onciliation and go about keeping silent or mentary Party, he sought the mandate and the inconvenient posers put up by the peoplE he got the massive mandate of the people. of one religion or the other. He was the Prime Minister of the people of India unlike today's Prime Minister (Interrup­ Sir, I want only the Government It tions). answer. Not that we are going to oppose ttl« motion. we are not going to oppose tIM So, Sir, with reg~rd to the Punjab motion, we abstain because unless the Prirm Anandpur Sahib Accord, the weapons that Minister and his colleagues demonstratt are being smuggled in, the Weapons that are that what they are going to do is within th. being smuggled in from across the border, framewOrk of the Congress to which hf threats to close down shops that are being belonged as Member till recently, we are no given in the vecjnity. what is the stand of the going to support. Nobod)I should take thi! Government on aU the issues. the country entire party which is the largest single party wants to know? (Interruptions) in the House for granted. You cannOt pre­ pare a draft and bring it before our leaders AN. HON'BlE MEMBER: They are and say Wel~ this is consensus'. (/nt~ helpless. tions). That is the consensus you are taking about in this Presidential Address. What is - SHRJ A.R. ANTULAY: If they are help­ consensus? (Interruptions) Consensus is less to ruJe, we ar~ prepared to help them. If evolved after discussion, consensus is not you people are helpless to rule the country, prepared to be handed over on a ptatter. we are prepared to help~you. So, Sir, we want Therefore, Sir, I am not going to take more 43 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 44

[She A.A. Antulay] gramme because he wants to keep himself in the saddle by dint of majority support to time, but I am certainly going to highlight the somehow continue the facade of democ-· point that needs to be highlighted which I racy. E.ven so, I think there is very little have done to the best of my ability as a difference. With the support of diametrically patriotic citizen of this country. (Interrup­ opposite parties like BJP and the Commu­ tions). Abdul Aahman Antulay can be as nists I really don't know what will happen to patriotic as Atmaram Ramchandra Antulay. the future of this country at the hands of this That is the fact you cannot not deny. These minority may minor government. I do not say are anti-nationals who doubt loyalty of. There this so that the Government should collapse. is the saying of the holy Prophet Moham­ No, We are last persons to think so. We wish med. (Interruptions). The meaning of the it well. If any of us were to think that this saying is that the love of the country is a part Government should collapse we would not of the Faith, is a part of Islam. Unless you have allowed it to be formed, we would love your country, you cannot be a true ourselves have framed. Did not Rajivji says: Muslim. What are they talking about? By IIAII right, go and form the Government." He merely saying that I am ... gave it on a platter, you should not deny the fact. Under the traditions and conventions of ( Interruptions) this democracy he did it when he said 'No, I don't stake myclaim'. Earlier, Yashwantraoji MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. Chavan· was invited-let us not forget that our memories are short-Yashwantrao SHRI A.A. ANTULAY: Sir, I ask him to Chavan was the leader of the largest single sit down because let him not be under the party when the Government of Morarjibhai wrong impression, under the wr9ng notion fell. He was first asked to form the Govern­ that because this is my maiden speech I can ment. He took seven days and thereafter he be shouted down and ·the speech can be declined. So, the convention of our own drowned in the din that they are creating. I country is there, I am not talking of only the am speaking not for the first time and have British convention, I am talking of the con­ never opened my mouth earlier. So I was vention in our own country and as to what saying that this is my conviction-the integ­ took place only a few years ago in this very rity of the nation, the unity of the nation have House. So, it was the right, and to my mind, to be sefeguarded and upheld. The country the duty of the President, with due respect, to is the first priority, topmost priority but unfor­ call Rajiv Gandhi and it was his right to form tunately I see is, of late, but since the new the Government and to be given the time to government come it in is going to dogs so far demonstrate the strength, I am 200 per cent as homogeniety and its sovereignty is con­ sure that he would have demonstrated the cerned. And then, neither socialism, that is, strength of majority, had he accepted to be the economic democracy nor secularism, the Prime Minister of the country. (Interrup­ the Sarva Dharma Sambhav, nor political tions) democracy meaning the will of the majority of the electorate shall survive. Sir, you are a Everything is known and nothing is secret known socialist. You know, Sir, I have re­ since it is an open Government. I do not spect and affection for you because we had know really what exactly do they mean by been together in Parliament 10 years ago or open Government. If the Government is open, 12 years ago. Your views on the economic I would like to know, at what cost. I call upon policies are to be complimented and need to the Prime Minister himself to say and not be emulated. Sir, I have respect for you Advaniji or anybody else on his behalf as to thoughts for your own ideology and your what cost has been paid for the support that secular and economically ideolog°ical bent of they have sought to keep themselves in the your mind. But if Vishwanathji is helpless in saddle, from the BJP and the Communists. giving that particular orientation to his pro- The BJP has given a very critical support, as 45 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 46

per Advaniji. Critical and constructive, Ithink, where in peace time. the Government was both means the same, if I know a little bit of there on the mercy--excuse me, I have to English. While our leader said that we are use the word Umercy" because I cannot find offering constructive cooperation, Advaniji a better word-of the Rightists and on the sarct that they are giving critical support. To charity of the Leftists. my mind, it is "Tweedledum and Tweedle­ dee'. So, Adval}jiji has reserved certain things MR. SPEAKER: Now, it is one O'clock. to himself. If the Government wants to say Do you want to take more time? something which runs counterto whatever is spelt out in their manifesto, I do not think they SHRI A.R. ANTULA Y: I. will conclude. I will compromise through Vishwanathji would think, I have made my points. wish. That is why they did not allow their persons to occupy the Treasury Benches We, in this House, should be greatly,

here. My friend Mr. Unnikrishnan is there, exercised over the future of democracy t over who is a good friend of mine. (Interruptions) the future of independent, India over the future of the coming generation of this coun­ Ibtidaye ishk hai rota hal Kya, aage try itself. I have done it and I thank you, aage dekhiye hota hai kya because in spite of the noises that were made you were good enough to rule in They can only scream what they dream. I do favour of the sanity and against insanity. not blame them. Having got the assurance from my leader for constructive cooperation, MR. SPEAKER: Now, we adjourn for if they do not allow even the parliamentary Lunch to meet again at 2.00 p. m. debate from the level which is expected, I really do not know how are they going to run 13.01 hrs. the country. My leader has not said that we are going to oppose whatever you say, but The Lok Sabha adjourned for Lunch tilT he only said that it has' to be within the Fourteen of the Clock Congress party's policies, programmes and the principles as enunciated by the AICC and in the constitution of the Congress to 14.00 hrs. which we are wedded. I do not have to say that the Government does not enjoy the The Lok Sabha re-assembled after Lunch confidence. The Government enjoys the at Fourteen of the Clock confidence, because it is turning to its Left . and Right. (Interruptions) [SHRI VAKKOM PURUSHOTTAMAN in the Chai~ I do not know what exactly they are, but sometimes they have to turn to this side, MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri L.K. Advani. sometimes to the other. Somepady jokingly said that those who are on the left side of SHRIINOERJIT (Oarjeeling): I am on a Viswanathji are the Leftists and those who point of order. are on the right side of him are the Rightists and the Government should have been in MR. CHAIRMAN: There is no subject between. Never anywhere in the history before the House. There is no scope for any except in times of war and national crisis, point of ·order. has there been such a situation as we are faced with today in this country. SHRI INDERJIT: The subject is the motion of confidence ... 13.00 hrs. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Inderjit, you It was never. Let a single illustration be given please read the rules. You cannot raise a 47 AIofbn of ConIidencs in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Ccxn:I at.. ,f. II IS 48

point of order without a subject befont the discussion on PresideNts Address. The House.. Motion has been taken up for disalSSion. AIIhough we put a proposal befont ow SHRIINOER-JlT: The Constitution has Congress friends yesterday that • they ..... been misquoted and I want to put the record prepared for voting without the disalSSion straight on this motion, the ruling party, my party and our marxist friends would also be ready to MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, no point of vote without discussbn. but the hone Minis­ order. Prof. Madhu Dandavate to present ter of Parliamentary Affairs has informed us Supplementary Demands for Grants (Gen­ today that the Congress Party desired • eral). disa lSSion, It may be short, inviting at least one member from e.:h party to speak. This debate is taking place for this reason only. We never meant in our proposal to put any 14.01 hrs. sort of restrictions on the debate. We simply wanted to carry out the direction given by the SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR President. I have got the oommunique which GRANTS (GENERAL) was issued by the Hon. President on 1st December. I am quoten from its English text: [English] [English1 THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. MAOHU DANDAVATE): I beg to present a -Since the Congress (I), elected to the statement (Hindi and English versions) Ninth Lok Sabha with the largest Member­ showing the Supplementary Demands for ship, has opted not to stake its claim for Grants in respect of Budget (General) for forming a Government, I have invited Shri 1989-90. VlShwanath Pratap Singh. leader of the seoond largest party viz. the Janata Dall National Front. to form a Government and MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE take a vote of confidence in the lok Sabha COUNCIL OF MINISTERS-CONTO within 30 days of assuming office.·

[ Translation] f Translation]

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri L.K. Advani. I am pu~ly quoting words because the spokesman of the Congress Party. Shri SHRI L.K. ADVANI (New Delhi): Mr. Antulay, said today morning that their leader Chairman, Sir, with the Ninth General EIec­ declined to form a Government... tions~ a new chapter has begun in the politics of the country. A new Government has been {Eng/ish] installed, a new Prime Minister .has taken over the reigns of the country and only yes­ "He declined to form a Government as terday the Government has presented its if he had been invited to form a Gov­ policy statement in the House in ~he form of ernment, which he declined and thus President's address. Normally, the first thing he handed over this Government to to be taken up in Parliament in such a situ­ you on a platter... • ation is to hoJd discussion on the President's Address or on the Motion of thanks moved [ Translation) by the Government. It is correct as Shri Antulay said that it is a unique deba, a be­ It has been established in the communi­ cause another motion has been me·fed in que that the congress party. even though it the House before the House couk; take Ull was the largest party in the House_ .. 49 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council 01 MnistfllS 50

(English) [ TtanSIaIion)

It did not even stake its claim to forming Had Shri Antulay been present here, I a Government. It realised its limil9tions. I would have been prepared to argue the would put it charitably. matter with him. Perhaps, I might agree with some of his points because as he has stated [ Translation] that it has not been a mandate for the Janata Oal. He may have read my letter addressed I had accepted it a;)(i , was prepared to give to the leaders of the Janata Oal or the Na­ this interpretation before and after Shri Antu­ tional Front in which I had assured them of aly's submission and I am not ready tor any my party's support. In that latter also, I kind of charitable interpretation whatsoever. mentioned that the people's verdid was Otherwise. I had accepted that the Congress against the Congress Party and was in fa­ Party, which had won the last elections with vour of a change, but it was not in favour of an unprecedented mandate of more than any single party. Therefore, I fully agree with 400 seats, something which had never him in this regard and I am confident that happened even dunng Pandit Nehru's and even the hone Members of the ruling party Shrimati Indira Gandhi's rule, goes for the will not disagree on this point. We must make pons ... eftol ts to comprehend the fads. If it is reaDy necessary to hold a discussion on this issue, [English] it could be held when the Motion of Thanks on the President's Address is taken up. This it goes for a renewed mandate. diredive of the President could have been foUowed even without holding a discussion [ Translation] in this regard. But if a discussion is to be held in spite of it, the scope will be limited. The It attempts to win 450 seats in the next limitation relates to the nature of the verdict elections keeping in view that it had won 400 given by the people of India during the 1989 seats in the previous one and on that basis elections. it can decide whether the people are happy or not with their Government, whether they [Eng/ish] accept it or rejed it. I was surprised to hear Shri Antulay, while speaking on this motion, What is the nature of the mandate which has say that: been given by the people in the Ninth Gen­ eral Election? [English] [ Translation] 1t would be wrong to think that the people of India have rejected the Congress." The context is limited. To digress would be going out of context at least for today's I am flabbergasted to hear a statement of discussion. Shri Antulay has raised several this kind. points. He mentioned Punjab. He referred to the abduction of the Hon. Minister's daugh­ ter. He also referred to the Anandpur Sahib ( Interruptions) Resolution and raised several other matters. I think that when the House takes up the Motion of Thanks on President·s Address. aI Agarwatji, I am not yielding. these matters will become relevant. That wiI be the appropriate occasion. Therefore, I 14JJ8 bra. would Ike to present a vivid account of the doings eX the Congress Party WNt-Ms Anandpur SahD resolution. I can also de- 51 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21,1989 Council of Ministsrs 52

[Sh. L.K. AdwaniJ there were no other claimants in the field. This issue could have been relevant, had scribe in detail the policy which the Congress there been more than one claimant and the party had adopted on Ayodhya issue since President would have had to satisfy himself the very beginning. While referring to the about the majority support. I have got the situation prevailing in Kashmir at present, report on the Centre-State relations with me. the hon. Member had com mented sarcasti­ It says: cally that Shr; Rajiv Gandhi had handed over a well integrated country but [English]

[English] "However, where no single party or group commands absolute majority, today the country is going to the dogs. the Governor has to exercise his dis­ cretion in the selection of Chief Minis­ [ Translation] ter."

When Shri Rajiv Gandhi had taken over the [ Translation] charge of the Government the position was much better. There were the words he used. The President can exercise his discre­ tion and not call the largest party to form the [English] Government.

If the country is going to the dogs, it is not the [English] resutt often days orfourteen days rule by this Government. It is the result of five years rule. "In such a situation, the leader of the party or group which in so far as the [ Translation] Governor is able to ascertain has the largest support in the legislative as­ They ruled for 5 years and now their spokes­ sembly may be called upon to form the man says that the country. Government. "

[English] [ Translation] is today going to the dogs. Is this a state­ At that time you could have also staked ment? Is it a confession? Is it a self-indict­ your claim on the basis of Shri Antulay's ment? At least. about this Government, I am advice and approached the President in this willing to judge it after some time and not regard and won a vote of confidence, about today. which Shri Antulay said confidently that he was two hundred percent sure of mustering [ Trans/ation] a majority support.

He has taken over the charge of the Going by the attitude 01 the political Government very recently ... (Interruptions) ... parties present here and their interpretations You may satisfy yourself with of the matter, this kind of an assumption is this ... (/nterruptions) ... But Mr. Speaker, Sir, either erroneous or it is indicative of some­ I would like to explain the attitude of our party thing terrible and therefore, is a matter of on every issue. concern ... (Interruptions)... Supporting that Shri RajivGandhi has heeded his advice and Sir, firstly it should be made clear that at approached the President to stake his claim the time when the National Front led by Shri for formation of the Government, I am con­ Vishwanath Pratap Singh has staked its vinced that the President would not have claim for the formation of the Government, allowed him to do so because he would have 53 MotionofConfidenceinAGAAHAYANA30, 1911 (SAKA) Counci/ofMinistsrs 54 said that the National Front had also staked and it does not convene a session for a a similar claim. He would have like to know period 6 months after its formation. What I that apart from the 193 Members of his party am emphasising is that the motion which has who else would support him, on the basis of been moved by the leader of the House, the which he could claim majority support. Even Hon. Prime Minister of our country is an after receiving the support of the AIADMK outcome of the directive given by the Han. and the Muslim League you could not have President to summon the House within one mustered the support of more than 210 or month. It is not to enunciate or discuss the 215 Members. On the other hand, Shri V.P. policies'of the Government. All these things Singh did not have to stake his claim ... lt was will be taken care of when we discuss these so because policies later on in the House. I have gone through the President's Address which [English] enumerates the policies of the Government. I am sure that when there is a discussion on there was no other claimant; he was the the President's Address my colleagues will only claimant. explain each and every policy and will be able to tell that this newly formed Govern­ [ Trans/ation] ment has rightly felt the pulse of the country and a new direction has been given to the But had the question of proving his politics according to the needs of the coun­ support a risen he would have produced the try. I have been expressing my concern letter in which support of BJP was extended during the last 5 years. On the issues of to him and stated that he had the support of rising prices of corruption etc., which have 86 BJP Members' and 52 Left Front Mem­ their direct bearing on the masses. How­ bers which would total to more than 280 ever, the political thinkers have been chiefly Members. In this way the number of total concerned over degeneration of the institu­ members extending support to the National tions in the country. We arefully conscious of Front is something like 285 to 290. There­ the problem and will take all the steps neces­ fore, under the circumstances, it follows that sary to restore the dignity of every institution the President would have requested the right from President to the Auditor General. National Front to form the Government as J hope that all such steps will get the support there could be no other claimant. The Presi­ of not only the C.P.I. (M) and the B.J.P. but dent stated that the National Front could all of you who will extend your support on the form Government and the hon. Ministers same lines as it was given by the Congress could take oath and there was no need to when after the period of emergency, it had verify the number of elected members ex­ realised the mistake it had committed by tending suppo'rt it. It could be asked to con­ getting the 42nd Amendment passed during vene the sitting of the House and seek vole the Emergency. But when we came with a of confidence within 30 days. I think that this proposal to annual the amendment, they is the right precedent set by the President. extended their support. You should think Although there are people who have ob­ over it that the very stand which your Party jected to it, as I have read some articles in had been holding on to even 15 days before which it has been mentioned that Presi­ the elections, that the autonomy to the Radio dent's saying that there were no other claim­ and Television was out of question since it ants was not necessary and the National was very dangerous, was suddenly changed Front could have been told to form the as the Congress Party made a somersault Government right away and if anyone wanted as it was mentioned in its manifesto that it to bring a non-confidence motion, he was was in favour of giving autonomy to the free to do so. I feel that the action taken by media. Thereafter one of Ministers said that the Han. President in this case will serve as their Party was only for the functional auton .. a precedent for all times to come. It will never omy. But I did not find any such thing in it. happen that a minority Government is formed Instead they had proposed to form an au- 55 Motion of Confident:» in OECEIEER 21, 1989 CowddMlfl1l1l 51

(Sh. LK. Adwanij like Dr. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee and Dr. B.R. Ambedkar. who were a strong aitic of tonomous corporation. However, you are the Congress throughout their life but Mr. prepared to yield to the public opinion. You Nehru never felt it that if he gave some thought that since this won' remain in your important assignment to Dr. Mukherjee or hands in future, the present Government too Dr. Ambedkar, his Government would be­ should not gain anything out of it so it would come two-headed or multi headed. You may be good if autonomy is given to them. I continue with you dlferencas and after pe­ mention these things because I agree that in riod ~ six months or one year or so if you feel this matter it is not suffICient only to talk of that the Government is not working in the constructive Opposition. Instead it should be right direction, you may criticise it. Do not critical support But you are not giving any worry t J will also do the same if I find it so. As critical support but you dre just opposing. I I have toki you that in that case Govemment have used the words 'critical support' which wilt invite criticism even from our party which I have deliberately used because I feel that has extended its support to form the Govern-. the Members of the RuHng Party should ment. But the people of your party had closed extend their critical support to their Govern­ their eyes and that was a wrong oonven­ ment so that this convention may continue in tion ... the Party. This convention has disappeared from your Party. There was a time when this [Eng/ish] used to happen in your party too. I never felt it that since Janata Oal, the B.J.P. and the You do not try to deflect me. I am on my Leftist Party have come together. small and limited objedive.

{English} [ Transiationj

Therefore, it has become a two headed, If the people's mandate is seen in its three legged monster. clear perspective. The Congress Party wi. have to accept it. [ Translation) (English) There is an anxiety over it. But if you apply your mind, you can very well see that Though this may not be a positive this statement is a sort of assurance of our mandate in favour of any single party, it is a support to the Government. (Interruptions) categorical mandate against the Congress Party and in favour of a change. You ha~e just mentioned that I have not said so. This echoes what Hitler used to say [ Translation] that democracy is nothing but the rule by a large number of people. However, I regret to say that this mistake has not been committed by Shri AntuIay alone (Engish] but a number of political anaIpts as they have been taking this mandata in terms of • is a hydra..Jleaded monster. North and south all the time. It is I who has said that the mistake has been Commillad a" ( Translation] Shri Antulay abne. It behoves him to say so and therefore he is saying it. Otherwise even Perhaps that is why I heard and echq of I could have said that the Congress Party Hitler in their words. But I would Ike to should have thougtd over • 4 months back remind you that in those days when the first as to why it was rejected by the masses, in aI Government was formed in India under the the northern Stales and intha 4 Staaescl.. IeadarshipofPancit Nehru, thare ....epaople South. I can say 10 but , ...... 57 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA YANA 30. 1911 (SAKA) I Council of Ministers 58 in terms of North and South dichotomy and allowed to form the Government. However, even today I am of the opinion that the when you did not come forward with this mandate given during recent Lok Sabha claim, I felt that you too had understood the elections has reflected the desire of the meaning of this mandate which was in favour people for a change. But the anti-establish­ of change and since the mandate was not in mentfactor in the non-Congress ruled States. yourfavour, you said that you did not believe made that desire forchange muteorchanged in it. it disbuted it or subseed it completely. In Andhra Pradesh, the Telugu Desam was in Shri Antulay has rightly reminded us power, in Kerala it was the CPI(M) and in that in 1979 when Shri Chavan moved a no­ Tamil Nadu, the DMK Government. There confidence motion against the government may be various other reasons for their rejec­ Shri Morarji had submitted his resignation tion in their own States but at that time the before a division on that motion in the House prime factor was the anti-establishment and the President, in the new situation, did factor. Same thing happened some time not see it that there were a total of 55 or 60 back even in Karnataka where there was the members in Shri Chavan's Party and it was Janata party Government and that is why not the largest single party. I do not remem­ perhaps, it is because of that factor in other ber its exact strength but I know that it was States of the North like U.P., Bihar, M.P., not the ~ingle largest party. Even at that time Gujarat, Rajasthan that the results were Shri Morarji Desai's Party was the single good though they were not so good in Har­ largest party but in view of the fact that before yana. Realising this factor we should not a division could take place on the no-confi­ think much in terms of North and South. If we dence motion the cabinet had resigned, the are thinking all the time in terms of North and President acted on the lines of British Parlia­ South, we do not give a right direction to the ment where in the similar situation, the party national politics. Therefore, I would like that in opposition, irrespective of the strength of the Congress Party should accept it, as I that Party, is given an opportunity to form the think that except the leader of Congress Government. He had said that he cannot Party there was no other political leader in form the Government and Charan Singhji any democracy of the world who rose so high can form it. In the meantime Jagjivan Ramji in people's esteem and again tost his credi­ staked his claim and the then then President bility in such a short span of five years. asked him to give a list of those who sup­ Therefore, instead of thinking it that this is ported him. Ordinarily, in this case also the not against them, there should be some President would have decided that even introspection and analysis within the Con­ though the Congress Party is the biggest gress Party. party and has the majority, he would call the second largest party as the mandate was [English] against the Congress and nobody would have objected to that. But when you said that SHRt G. DEVARAYA NAIK (Kanara): you would not stake your claim it became all He has forgotten that Congress Party is the the more easier tor the President to ask the largest party in Parliament. National Front to form the Government. He asked them to take oath and seek vote of SHAI L.K. ADVANI: I have not forgotten confidence within tri,1y days. I am happy that that. at least the Cong rass P arty has decided not to oppose us in this matter and abstain from [ Translation] It. It in itself is an acceptance that Govern­ ment has obtained majority. It is a good thing Therefore, I was thinking that if you did and puts responsibility on the Government nothing else, you would certainly claim that that instead of politics of confrontation and your Party has emerged as the largest single criticis"1 it shall have to work towards con­ party since it had its first claim and should be sensus. Shri Antulay has mentioned that 59 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 60

[Sh. l.K. Adwani staked our claim. You should work and show results. After 6-8 months or one year, we there should be consensus on iss·ues. It was shall decide whether to move a no-confi­ also mentioned at a meeting on Punjab dence against you or reiterate confidence in which was called by the Prime Minister two you,' With this appeal, I support the motion three days back. I would like to mention here moved the leader of the House. that I have participated in many all-party­ meetings during the past few years which were called by Shrimati Indira Gandhi and Shri Rajiv Gandhi, some of them recently. 14.35 hrs. On no occasion was a draft provided before hand and we used to sit and discuss matters. MEMBERS SWORN A draft was prepared in that meeting and if there were any objections the draft was [English] suitably amended and finally a consensus was arrived at. This has happened for the MR. SPEAKER: Secretary-General may first time that Congress party which claims of call out the names of Members who have not playing constructive role opposition, has said yet taken the Oath or made the Affirmation. in the context of Punjab that as the draft was not shown to them beforehand they do not Smt. Rajinder Kaur Butara (Ludhiana) want to become a party to it. They said that they received it at 2 0' clock in the night. I Shri Rajdev Singh (Sangrur) may tell you for your information that I re­ ceived it at 2 0' clock in the morning and still Shri Sucha Singh (Bhatinda) I made my observations on it. If this is their attitude, I cannot say whether it can be called Shri Jagdev Singh (Faridkot) constructive at all. I am sorry for1he interrup­ tions from our side in th~ maiden speech of Antulayji, which, I feel, should not have been there. He should have been given full oppor­ 14.41 hrs. tunity to express his views I would like to say that the proceedings of the House should be MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE allowed to be carried in a dignified and COUNCIL OF MINISTERS-CONTD. balanced way and argument put forward by each section of the House should be heard. [ Trans/ation] But you should bear it mind that if you make uncalled for remarks and describe it as two SHRI JANESHWAR MISHRA headed and three legged. it is bound to (Allahabad): Mr. Speaker, Sir, till now the echo- motion of confidence has never been moved in the history of Lok Sabha. Earlier, motions [English] of no-confidence were used to be moved in the House and being in the opposition we People in glass houses should not throw used to speak in favour of the motion. Today, stones at others. I am happy that we are speaking in favour of a confidence motion. It is true, as has been [ Translation] said by Shri Advani, that the Hon. President has directed Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh I would, therefore request the Congress Party to obtain vote of confidence in the House but not to abstain, but instead set a new ex­ it is also a matter of courage that a Prime ample. It wou1d be better it they say 'a new Minister, himseH moves a motion of cOnfi­ Government has come to power and we dence in the House. In the past, we have had express our confidence in you. We have not many great leaders who were leaders of the 61 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30,1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 62

House and at times their leadership was he had received in his stomach. At least the questioned but even then they never moved person occupying Prime Minister's chair a motion of confidence in the House on their should protect democracy. Under his Prime­ own.lwould like to congratulate the leader of Ministership and in the State ruled by his the House Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh for party, incidents of shooting took place in the this. Antulayji, I regret that some of our presence of the collector. Yet they are proud friends raised hue and cry when your name of winning 200 seats in the House. If elec­ was called ... (Interruptions) Some of our tions are held tomorrow, this number will friends made uproar just on seeing you. We, come down to twenty five who are in the public life, should always try to only ... (Interruptions) ... that is why I specifi­ have an unblemished record and if it is not cally mentioned tho number. so, people make hue and cry. You were .... (lnterruptions) .... You have a number of getting angry and shouting at some new wounds in your heart. The hon. leader members. You can yourself imagine what a mentioned the names of Dr. Lohia and Shri Member might have felt after facing numer­ Jai Prakash Narain in the House but he ous inquiries and passing through a number made no mention of PanditJawaharlal Nehru of metal detectors. Every Member who en­ and Mahatma Gandhi. You felt shy of point­ ters this House becomes an han. Member ing out the omission of the name of Shrimati and due regard should be paid to him but his Indira Gandhi. You could not muster cour­ past history used to be discussed here in the age to rrlention the omission of Indiraji whom House and will continue to haunt him. you accepted as yourgreat leader. What can we do about it? Allegation was made against Being the single largest party, they are the leader of the House or against us. We right in saying that they have majority. It is have always opposed the Congress party true that democracy is the game of numbers and would continue to do so in future as well. but the sentiments of the people are also You allegation is that we have imported our attached with their votes. Democracy is also leader. At the time of elections, people too a game of sentiments. Had it not been so you had raised the question as to why we pre­ would not have gone from treasury benches ferred to accept Shri Vishwanath Pratap to the opposition benches. I have sympathy Singh as our leaderthan to choose someone for you and your great leader. You are writh­ amongst ourselves. We told them that he ing in pain like a wounded bird and for this we was not our leader. Since he was spear­ can only sympathise with you. I will avoid heading the campaign to nab the theif, that is using harsh words. You should note it that why ... (Interruptions) ... we accepted him to democracy is not the game of numbers but of be our leader. We would be ready to accept sentiments. It is true that your strength in the persons like Shri Dinesh Singh, Shri Brahma House ;s about two hundred but how you Dutt, Shri Kalpnath Raj and Dr. Rajendra have reached that figure? Till now there was Kumari Bajpai as our leaders if they help us not even a single case of booth capturing in in apprehending the real the constituency of any Prime Minister. ... culprit. .. ( Interruptions) ...

SHRI KALPNATH RAI (Ghosi): There were instances of booth capturing in the SHRI KALPNATH RAt: Mr. Speaker, name of Sh. Charan Singh. (Interruptions) Sir, I· have a point of order .... (Interruptions) .... Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chief SHRIJANESHWAR MISHRA: An MLA, Minister of Uttar Pradesh Shri Mulayam Singh who was a Minister in the Uttar Pradesh Ya.cJav ... (Interruptions).... I must Government during Congress regime and speak ... ( Interruptions) ... you may put a check was very close to Shri Rajiv Gandhi and had if you so want .... (Interruptions) ... How can I contributed a lot to his success in his last speak ifthey shout likethis .... (/nterruptions) ... election, was shot at and till now he has not fully recovered from the bullet injuries which MR. SPEAKER: You address the Chair. 83 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 84

SHRI KALPNA TH RAt: I am addressing SHRI JANESHWAR MISHRA: Mr. the Chair. But I they shout .... ( Interruptions) .... Speaker, Sir, the Hon. Member was raising a point of order just now. He was also refer­

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. Let ring to us. Mr. Speaker, Sir t these elections ma listen to his point of were fought mainly" on the issue of corrup­ order •... ( Interruptions) ... tion. At present, we are discussing the issue of majority. Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh. SHRI KAlPNATH RAI: Mr. Speaker, who is now the leader of the House, was Sir. the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, Shri formarly the Finance Minister and Defence Mulayam Sing Yadav ... ( Interruptions) ... Minister also. When he resigned from these offices, the issue of corruption made head­ MR. SPEAKER: Is there any rule of the lines in the newspapers all over the country. House, is there any point of order? You sit CAG also mentioned it. Later on, aHegations down. No point of order. Which rule has been were made against Shri Amitabh Bachchan violated? .... ( Interruptions) ... also, who was very close to Shri Rajiv Gandhi.. .. (lnt9rruptions) .... It was a serious SHRI KAlPNATH RAI: I am speaking matter of corruption. You are a newly elected under the same rute under which the other Speaker. Allegations of rec6lving commis­ hone Member is speakmg. With due respect sion in the purchase of fodder machines to Shri Janeshwar Mishra, I would like to tell were levelled against the former Speaker. At him that the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, that time, we, the people of rural areas were Shri Mulayam Singh Vadav ... perplexed as to what was happening and how democracy would function. What would MA. SPEAKER: Kalpnath Raiji, you happen to a country where the Speaker of cannot drag the name of a Chief Minister in the Leg~laturet the Judiciary and the Execu­ this controversy. Where is the relevance? tive come under cloud. People allover the There is no point of order ... (lnterruptions) .... country were stunned to hear such allega­ tions. Had the rulers administered the coun­ SHRI KAlPNATH RAI: What are you try property, they would not have met this saying? Hhe says such defamatory things, I fate. That would not have had to sit in the can reply to it ... (/ntenvptions) ... Opposition ... ( Inte"uptions) ... Today, they claim that they were in a position to form a MR.SPEAKER: Order, please. Please run the Government. We would come to take your seats. I have permitted him. know of their adual strength after the oom ing elections in the month of January. All will ... (Interruptions) ... -- come to this side. We know that it would be difficult for them to remain in the opposition [ Translation] for long after enjoying power. We know how many of members would be left on their MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. side .... ( IntBrruptions) ... Please tell me if you have any point of order. I have permitted you. Nobody else will speak. Mr .. Speaker, Sir, a serious matter was raised by Shri Antulay. He submitted that the SHRI KALPNATH RAt: Mr. Speaker, Hon. Prime Minister was being aided by the Sir. Janeshwar ·Mishra was referring to the leftist and rightist parties, but both cannot go corrupt practices of Dahia Trust-of Shri Vish­ together. It is true that the Congress culture wanath Pratap Singh ... has been to encourage confrontation be­ tween the rightist forces and the leftist forces and thereby rule the country. But the Na­ MR. SPEAKER: .Now you sit down. tional Front joined hands with the leftist parties There is no point of order in it. Shri Janesh­ and the rightist parties to prove that a body war Mishra cannot function property unless all the or- 65 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council 01 Ministers 66 gans work unitedly. Mr. Speaker, Sir. when provide~ the real security cover. I would like Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh contested the tooongratulate Shri Vashwanath PratapSingh Parliamentary by-election from Allahabad for his visit to Amritsar in an open jeep. Their constituency, one of the Congressmen had leader did not ever have the courage to visit expressed his doubt whether Shri Advani, Amritsar and even stopped sending his chil­ Shri Vajpayee on one side and Shri Sha­ dren to school out of fear., It is necessary to habuddin on' the other side would give their bring openness in character. Hyou are con­ support to Shri V.P. Singh. At that time I had stantly trying ,to protect yourseH, the threat to said ... your life will increase ... (/ntenuptions) ... He has referred to the hone Minister of Home SHRI R.N. RAKESH (Chail): Haji Mas­ Affairs and his daughter. Shri Antulay has tan was also there. said that this Government will not be able to function. We may recall that when Shri Sanjay SHRIJANESHWAR MISHRA: You may Singh was in the hospital and the then Prime ask Shri Antulay about Haji Mastan's where­ Minister wanted to pay him a visit, but he abouts. (/ntenuptions) ... could not do so because four or five hundred people had surrounded the hospital. The MR. SPEAKER: Your leader is speak­ nation's Prime Minister could not go to see ing and you get up. a patient on account of security reasons. But such a kind of law and order situation cannot SHRI JANESHWAR MISHRA: My continue for ever. So far as the abduction of assertion was that credit must .go to the the hone Minister's daughter is concerned, I master mind of Shri Vishwanath Pratap would like to submit that during the Con­ Singh, the Janata Oal and the opposition that gress rule, the daughters of the common Shri Vajpayee and Shri Shahabuddin would people were kidnapped. The National Front share the same platform. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Government deserves to be congratulated they have levelled many allegations. One of for checking the kidnapping the daughters of them relates to the kidnapping of the daugh­ ordinary people even at the cost of the Hon. ter of the Home Minister. It is astonishing Home Minister'S daughter being kidnapped. that. .. The day the people running the Govern­ ment. ... (Interruptions) ... Let it not be pre­ SHRI J.P. AGGARWAL (Chandni sumed that there can be no solution to this Chowk): Would you rule the country by problem. A solution to the Babri Masjid and creating a rift between the Hindus and the Ram Janambhoomi issue will be found out Muslims ... (Interruptions) ... and the Communist Party of India, our Muslim brothers and the B.J.P. are also lending their SHRI JANESHWAR MISHRA: When support to us to solve it. A solution will be the ,Punjab problem had become very criti­ found out through dialogue and not by use cal, the leader of the Congress party had of force. I would like to make this clear to withdrawn the names of his children from the them. rolls of St. Columbus schools and he himself began wearing a bullet proof jacket for this 15.00 hrs. personal safety. The car in which he trav­ elled was preceeded and followed by 20 to Sir, a point with regard to the question of 25 cars to provide secu rity cover. I went reservation has been raised here. In this through the statement of a former Minister connection, , would like to say that this issue just now. He has stated that although he has been a matter of discussion from the owns three houses in Delhi, he would like to time when we were not even born. Their vacate the official bungalow because the leader was also born much later. Gandhiji which he owns are not safe from the secu­ had launched a movement for this and a pact rity angle. For how long can he occupy thiP was signed at Pune. At that time were not bungalow? Besides, it is one's oonduct that even born. The backward community com- 67 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 68

[Sh. Janeshwar Mishra] MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. Please take your seat. ., prises of the downtroddens the exploited and the oppressed people. They have their SHRI JANESHWAR MISHRA : The law own agonies. It is just like a disease of given by 'Manu' was vertical whereas the leprosy. that has afflicted our society. There constitution drafted by Dr. Ambedkar is hori­ are some other social maladies also plagu­ zontal in character. By the term vertical I ing our society. Capitalism is one of them mean that it classified the people as high which has afflicted our society like dermatitis castes and low castes and by the term hori­ in the body. None of the present big indus­ zontal I mean that all are equal under the trial houses in our country had been prosper­ Constitution. According to Manu, one sec­ ous for more than 4 to 5 generation back. tion is high and the other is low, whereas Prosperity of some of the big industrialists according to Ambedkar, all are equal. But such as the Birlas or the Tatas could not be the Constitution of India is a horizontal one traced beyond their 5 generations. But the and the law of Manu has been rejected. So terms Brahmin, Thakur, Baniya and Harijan it was a decided fact that we were to change have been in existence for a considerable the entire society into a horizontal one. It is long tirr.e. It is a disease of leprosy with which not a question related to the Congress Party our society is afflicted. Some formula were or the National Front or the Janata Dal. It is worked out under the leadership of Gandhiji a question of social reform. It is a question for and Pandit Madan Mohan Malav1ya for cur­ which not only leaders such as Lohiaji, Jai ing this malady. Later on when the Constitu­ Prakashji and Shri Karpoori Thakurstruggled tion of India was framed, some seats in the but many other great leaders have also State Assemblies and the Lok Sabha were waged waron this issue. As such, this matter reserved for Harijans so as to provide th8m needs not only to be discussed in the House special opportunity ...... (Interruptions) " . but it should be discussed leaving aside political considerations. We may hold a dis­ SHRI J.P. AGARWAL: Mr. Speaker, cus~ion here and satisfy ourselves. but what Sir, he has termed Harijans as the disease of about the discussion that is taking place in leprosy, which is wrong. the villages. If the tension witnessing the House is reflected also in the villages, it will SHRI R.N. RAKESH: Mr. Speaker, Sir, have a very adverse effect. Please try to on a point of order. think about this problem with a broader out­ look. Whenever we take steps to uplift the MR. SPEAKER: All right. Ple3se make down trodden people by providing special your point. opportunities to them, interests of the vari­ ous sections clash. The people have some SHRI R.N.RAKESH : Mr. Speaker, Sir, vested interest in it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, people the word" Harijan" referred to by the han. often say that reservation should be pro­ Member has not been used in the Constitu­ vided on the basis of economic condition of tion. The words" Scheduled Castes and the people and why not a formula could be Scheduled Tribes" are there in the Constitu­ evolved under which equal opportunities tion but not the word "Harijan'·. would be rnade available to all irrespective of the fact one belongs to a Harijan community MR. SPEAKER : There is no point of or a Brahmin community. If one could be­ order, Please take your seat. come a Collector, why not the other? Some­ times people come up with a proposal that SHRI J.P. AGARWAL: Mr. Speaker, when one member of a family becomes a Sir, I object to his comparison of Harijans Collector, other memberofthatfamily should and 8aniyas with leprosy in the country. He be debarred from becoming a Collector. But should withdraw these words. Please ask nobody dares to put it into practice. I know him to withdraw these words. that it is not at all an economic problem. 69 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30,1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 70

There are so many maladies in our society from the shackles of a corrupt and oppres­ and confrontation is bound to take place if sive Government. corrective measures are not taken. There are large scale disparities. For Example, Sir, let me make my party position clear. there are people for whom there are no We consider the defeat of the Congress restrictions to accumulate wealth in enormous party in the last elections as an outstanding proportions and there are people who are achievement of the common people of this required to seek permission to earn even country ~ who had been groaning under mis­ one rupee as daily wages for their livelihood. ery because of the various anti-p80ple poli­ It is a social problem and you will have to find cies of the Government and of the corrupt some way out to provide some special op­ administration with which they had been portunities to people who are SOCially back­ running this country. We are extremely happy wa.rd, who are oppressed and way to this has and satisfied that the previous regime of been found out after so many years. Why Rajiv Gandhi has been removed by the will of agitation was not launched when reserva­ the people and the National Front Govern­ tion provision was extended during Con­ ment has been installed at the Centre. The gress rule? When a son of an Ahir becomes last elections saw violence on an unprece­ the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, agita­ dented scale. There have been serious tions take place. When a barber's son be­ reports-not only reports but it has been comes the Chief Minister of Bihar, reserva­ proved-that there were a large number of tion issue hots up. All of us know as to why booths in the then Prime Minister's constitu­ these things take place. We also know that ency which were captured necessitating for today agitations have been launched in Uttar the first time, I believe, in the removal of the Pradesh and Bihar. The boys belonging to Returning Officer of the whole constituency the youth wing of the Congress Party fuddle and removal of the District Magistrate and whenever they visit foreign countries and the Superintendent of Police of the area these boys misbehaved with us In a drunken because the Election Commission satisfied state. The agitation that is taking place these itself that those officers had indulged in booth days ... (Interruptions) " capturing and rigging on behalf of the then Prime Minister of this country. And not one With these words, I would like to request word of regret has been expressed. in spite the entire House, through you, to adopt this of massive booth capturing, rigging and ter­ motion unanimously. ror tactics which had been adopted by the Congress Party, they have not been suc­ [English) cessful to secure a favourable verdict from the people of this country which shows the SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE people's anger and contempt for the then (Bolpur): rv1r. Speaker, Sir, we fully support Government. The people are today celebrat­ the Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister ing their deliverance from the clutches of a and on behalf of my party, I wish to reiterate corrupt and rotten regime. The people in this on the floor of the House what was commu­ country have been fighting for quite some nicated to the hon'ble Rashtrapathiji that we time for the removal of the Rajiv Gandhi's extend our unconditional support to the Government. Government formed by Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh. 15.13 hrs.

Sir, the results of the last elections clearly [SHRI NIRMAL CHATERJEE in the Chai~ show that the peopie have voted for a change and they have given an unequivocal man­ And you will recall the magnificent public date against the previous Government. We response that was given to the call of all the congratulate the people of this country for then opposition parties for a Bharat bandh their conscious decision to free themselves on 30th August. That was the day when 71 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Mlnistel'S 72

[Sh. Somnath Chatterjee] about the CPI (M) ? history was created and a clear signal was SHR~ SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: CPI issued that the people were against the (M) has increased the strength .. (/ntenup­ Government of Rajiv Gandhi. It was a Gov­ tions) ... Sir, I have not YIelded. ernment which became synonymous with corruption, with hunger for power, with Sir, the present Government has been communal divide, with rise of fundamental­ described as a two-headed and three-legged ism in this country. That Government has monster, or I do not know what he said. But now been unceremoniously disposed of to I would choose a two-headed or a three­ the dustbin of history. And we must not do legged monster than one-headed confused anything which will in any way undo the clear man with two bow-legs and 191 tails. verdict of the people of this country against the Congress Party. Reference was made to the unique Motion that has been moved today on the Many things will have to be done by the floor of the House. We have seen in this present Government to clear the mess that country several occasion when their favour­ has been left behind by the old Government. ite Governors had indulged in head counting And the present Government should be given inside the Raj Bhawans. But I must con­ opportunity to implement their manifesto gratulate our Rashtrapati Ji that he has taken which ;s the condition we have imposed. up the right attitude and directed the present Government to obtain a Vote of Confidence We heard earlier in the day the perora­ on the floor of the House itself without indulg­ tion of the new Rajiv loyalist. I am rem inded ing in head counting. of an observation which appeared in the newspapers on 8th December, 1984 which Mr. Antulay said that Prime Minister did said: not enjoy majority support. Before saying that, he should have waited till the end of this "Can Mr. Antulay be a loyalist when he debate when he would have found out left the party after the Congress (I) Parlia­ whether the Prime Minister enjoyed the mentary Board denied him a ticket to contest majority support or not. It has been rightly the election." pointed out by Mr. Advani that they have not got the courage to call for a Division, as they This is the statement of Mr. R'ljiv Gandhi. have indicated already, because they know Naturally, when he was denied a ticket he what would be the fate of that Division. went and formed his own party and criticised and castigated his present leader. However, Mr. Antulay said that they want a strong in the present situation he has again chosen Centre.' Does the strong Centre mean «that him as his own leader. But one thing is very only one person in this country will be the clear. In his long speech he referred to so arbiter of the fate of the 750 million people of many things but never uttered the word this country? Does it mean that different 'corruption' during his one-hour speech, and parties, may be having their different mani­ it is very clear that the Congress people do festoes, should not respond positively to the not believe in self-introspection. Not one verdict oft he people, which hasbeen against word has been said why a party which en­ the Congress Party and in favour of, what joyed such massive mandate, of which we one may say, a government by the Janata • are reminded of almost everyday ad _nau­ Dal to be supported by others? ~ strong seam on the floor of the House, was reduced Centre does not mean that the Janata Dal, to 191 or 192 within five years ..... (Interrup­ with the support of others, cannot form a tions) .. government and that the country will go to dogs, which has been the comment made by SHRI T. BASHEER (Chirayinkil) : What Mr. Antulay. We also want a strong Centre 73 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) COuncil of Ministers 74 with strong States where the federal concept cording to their own policies and programmes and the federal structure of this country which have been rejected by the people of would have its due role to play. It has been this country. Sir, we have got the sample of said that the minority government is being their cooperation during the all-Party meet supported by the BJP and the Communists. on Punjab. Even during the Speaker's elec­ Sir, we have said even earlier, before the tion what they have indicated clearly shows results of the eledion-because the people's that there is no cooperation forthcoming prime concern has been, as we understood from them and the very fact that today they from their response during the Bharat Bandh have insisted on a debate only on the issue and from the people's mood, that they are of vote of confidence of this Government out to dislodge this Government-that if clearly shows they believe in destructive Janata Dal is in a position to form the Gov­ criticism and not constructive cooperation. ernment, we shall support them from out­ Nobody. will yield to anyone in our concern side, and we have kept our commitment. for the maintenance of unity and integrity of the country. It has been said that Mr. Rajiv Gandhi has shown magnanimity and generosity in Sir, we have seen how the unity and the not staking his claim for the Government. I integrity of the country were-under the great­ believe that is the howler of the century. I am est strain during the last Government. We sure he would have staked his claim to form have seen how perversions and distortions a Government and probably today, he is had crept in the body politic of the country. repenting to have passed that Anti-Defec­ We have seen how our constitutional institu­ tion Bill because the money that was avail­ tions were denigrated and how they had able with them cannot be utilised for ulterior interfered with in the discharge of their func­ purposes. Then, som&thing extraordinary tions and how the people's respect was was said ...... brought to the dust in this country. And now we say we believe in the unity and integrity of SHRI A.f. CHARLES: (Trivandrum): the country which has been under the great­ How much did you get? est strain under the Rajiv Gandhi's Govern­ ment and it will be restored back to its proper SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, position under the present Government with something extraordinary was said that Mr. the support of the people. I must congratu­ Rajiv Gandhi could have continued till 14th late the Prime Minister for having visited January 1990. Look at his generosity. He Amritsar soon after he assumed the office gave up his right to cont~nue in Government the other day. Sir. probably a fortnight or till 14th January 1990 and it was his sinful three weeks have elapsed since this Gov­ day when Mr. V.P. Singh was sworn in asthe ernment has taken charge of the administra­ Prime Minster of India. Sir, kindly consider tion of this country and the Congress Party that the Congress people can even think that wants that all the ills and all the problems that their Government, after having been beaten have been created by them during their five­ thoroughly and having lost the people's year misrule will be solved overnight. This support could even dream of continuing till shows an irresponsible attitude and a criti­ 14th January 1990, only to take advantage cism for the sake of criticism and I find those of the constitutional provision in this country. han. Members on the other side who had Sir, this is the way the Congress people have been most vocai in the other House in the been conducting themselves. earlier House against the Congress Party now having joined them recently, are most vocal in their support for the Congress Party Sir, what they have said is that they now. would give constructive cooperation to the Government. The wonderful system of con­ AN HON. MEMBER: What about you, structive cooperation is that it must be ac- Sir? 75 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 76

SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: Sir, his say without interruption. Occasional in­ Mr. Antulay asked what would be .the price terruption here and there does not matter, paid. Price paid by whom? Would it be the that is part of the parliamentary game. (Inter­ price paid by the Congress people? They will ruptions). realise soon that the people of this country will not tolerate an attitude of confrontation But, Sir, unfortunately, what we have with the present Government so soon. I want seen today belies those hopes. I know that them safely ensconced on that side with there are some passions and feelings run­ greater and greater reduced number in the ning high because we are meeting just after future. the elections and having a debate on a subject which arouses a controversy here in Sir, our country is passing through very the House. Nevertheless, everybody on all serious multidimensional crises -and these sides of the House should try seriously the are to be solved, crisiscr.eated and inherited, leaders of these parties including the Lead­ created by the previous government and ers of the House and the Leader of the inherited by the present Government. Now, Opposition and the Leaders of other parties; it is necessary that there should be national it is their bounden responsibility to see that effort to solve these problems and it is our Members observe the minimum decorum of bounden duty support this Gcvernment to this House in the sense that everybody should solve these serious problen1s so that the be allowed to have his say without obstruc­ economic crisis which has enguifed the tion and interruption because that is a two­ people, so that the problems of unity and way street, that is a game which can be integrity of this country which are under played by all sides and ultimately it will not serious strain, these important issues, are help anybody. solved, for which I pledge my party's support to the present Government. Secondly, Sir, I wish to say that at some stage I leave it to the Government, but at SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Midnapore): some stage, not as part of this discussion, Mr. Chairman, Sir, before I come to the but perhaps at the end of it or tomorrow this subject of this motion. with your permission House should not disperse without expr~ss­ I would like to make three brief observations. ing its sorrow or its condolences to all the One is that for the last 3 to 3 112 hours we people-I do not know their numbers-who have been listening to this debate and I think have lost their lives either in the wave of you will have noticed that the Members communal disturbances which preceded the belonging to the parties which are support­ election, or those who have lost their lives ing this Government have generally been during the election campaign itself. We all of listening quietly ... (In:erruptions) .. You don't us, have come here after those unfortunate understand my words ? Did you see the incidents have taken place. We, should Communists or the BJP Members shouting remember those people. It is not enough to and yelling and heckling people? (Interrup­ make obituary references only to our former tions). Members and colleagues. Of course, we have already done that. But let us also pay I am appealing, Sir, to all Members in some homage. to those innocent people this House, I don't want to sound sanctimo­ belonging to different communities who have nious about it. But any way, only a few days lost their lives who have been killed in the ago or a few hours ago hopes were being course of the election campaign itself. Thirdly, expressed on various sides that this new I am very happy on behalf of my party, that at House, the Ninth Lok Sabha under the cus~ least some Members from Punjab who were 1odianshipofthe new Speaker would at least staying aloof have rejoined us today and try to ensure that debates which are held have come here to support this Motion of here are serious, meaningful and conducted Confidence. As far as the subject is con­ in a way which enables everybody to have cerned, I do not wish to repeat what my 77 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 78 colleagues on this side have side. Shri Antu­ have said, .. Yes, the people of the South, for lay's laboured argument about how mag­ whatever reason-it is their democratic right nanimous Shri Rajiv Gandhi has been in to vote as they wish-have saved the Con­ giving up his claim to form the Government gress party from a total oblivion. They have and all that has already been punctured saved your party from a total oblivion and the here. It is a technical matter and a least you could not was to make a gesture to constitutional matter also. If Shri RajivGandhi the people of the South. had been really convinced that there was any possibility of his party managing to get SHRI VAKKOM PURUSHOTHAMAN adequate support from other parties and (Allef.)pey): Do you think the people of groups which would give them a majority in Kerala ... (Interruptions) the House, I am sure he wou'ld not have shown any magnanimity whatever. It was a SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Sir, I am not total loss of confidence in them. yielding.

Sir, I do not know whether it is permis­ SHRI VAKKOM PURUSHOTHAMAN:! sible to refer to the Rashtrapathi.ii. The night put a simple question to you. before Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh was sworn in as Prime Minister, the Left parties SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: What a ges­ had gone jointly to the Rashtrapathi Bhawan ture they could make to the South, I w:llleave to tell the Rashtrapathi that for the purpose of it to you, to think. forming this Government he should send for Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh and our par­ SHRI VAKKOM PURUSHOTHAMAN: ties were prepared to support uncondition­ Do you agree that the people of Kerala are ally the formation of such a Government. more literate? The Rashtrapathi said, " I know that, I am waiting for him, why doesn't he come?: I am SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Let us not go sending a message for him." So, It was all into the patt9rn of voting in Kerala and all decided by the Rashtrapathi much earlie.r. that. We will go into that later as to who are He understood what the position was. If Anti­ the people who helped you and in your Defection Law was not in operation and if the votes. We will go into that. days of the IIAaya Rams and Gaya Rams' were still there ... { Interruptions). AN HaN. MEMBER: We are ready for that. SHR! G. DEVARAYA NAIK: (Kanara) : Sir, he is directly insulting our· han. Prime Minister. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: I was very interested to find Mr. Antulay-I had noted it SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Shri Antulay down while he was speaking-making two made much of the fact that people in the four statements which appear to me to be abso­ southern states have given a big nlajority to lutely contradictory to each other. On the one the Congress. I also, like Shri Advani, do not hand, he said, "we have handed over a want to discuss the subject on the basis of united country to you. At the time of going, North versus South. That would not be cor­ we have handed over to you, a United coun­ rect, but the fact remains that in these four try." And in the next breath he said, "The southern states, the Congress party, out of unity of the country is going to the dogs" I do 139 seats, has won-I say not be absolutely not understand it. That means, within 15 accurate-about 125 seats. Out of these 193 days, during these 15 days, the unity of the people sitting here, 125 seats have been country is going to the dogs? Then, what has won in the four southern states and some happens during the last 5 years? What has seats in the north-east. So, what do you enabled all these divisive forces to grow mean to say because of that? I would rather throughout the country in such a threatening , 79 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21,1989 Council 01 Minis,.,. 80

(Sh. Indrajit Gupta) appease and compromise with these forces. I am surprised that the leader of the ruling manner? That has not happened now-after Party at that time launched his election this Government has come to power. campaign from Faaabad. He did not find any other place to launch his election campaign. You have lost one of your top leaders, His first speech was made at Faizabad, the Prime Minister of this country because of adjacent to Ayodhya. What did he say there? these diVisive forces. For years and years, H you return me to power again, I promise you refused even to take the country and you that Ram Raj will be established in this Parliament into confidence about the en­ country.· -Ram Ra;- I do not know, what it quiry into the forces which might have been means. Please define for us. There was a behind that killing. A Supreme Court Judge certain type of crowd there, in the Ayodhya was appointed under the Commissions of region. Naturally they were very much en­ Inquiry Act. He gave a report and then you thused by hearing the Prime Minister giving said that report would riot be made public. this assurance, and started shouting, ·Har Ultimately you were compelled to lay that on Har Mahadev, Bajrang Bali Ki Jai.- And you the Table of the House. In that report we say, yoar hands are in-nocent. You have not found-the Supreme Court Judge was not contributed for the sake of an opportunistic chosen by us, he was selected by your advantage, you wanted to get in the elec­ leader-the Judge saying, " I have not found tions. You wanted to appearse and compro.. very conclusive proof about the conspiracy. mise with various kinds of forces and ulti­ But there is a certain individual against whom mately you brought about your own disaster. the needle of suspicion is pointed." Ultimately you brought about your own dis.. aster, and we say, it is good riddance. H is a 15.37 hrs. good riddance because, with another 5 years of this Govemment, the country would really [DR. THAMBI DURAl in the Chai~ have gone to the dogs, would have been finished. I need not name him. Here you all know it-a person who was named in that report Therefore, Sir, now I only want to say in as being the prime suspect in the conspiracy conclusion that not to support this Govern­ behind the murder. But what did your leader ment at this stage not to support this Govem­ do the next day? He reinstated that gentle­ ment m~ans. leaving the .~VOtry without a man in his own secretariat Prime Minister's Government Is that ran "alternative? Is that Secretariat. That is the respect and honour an option? Since no single party has been you show to the memory of your leader , given an absolute majority in the House, these friends are implying that we should not I have been howling and shouting in this support such a Government. Then there House for yea~ saying that it is your duty to should be no government. reveal to the people of this country, what was the conspiracy behind this murder. But to SHRI G.DEVARAYA NAIK: We never this day, it has not been revealed. said that.

What standards are you going by? SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: If you never People' cannot trust you if you behave like said that. then please support this motion of this. Therefore, I want to say, it is completely confidence. The fact that you are refusing to wrong to say that the unity of the country has support this motion means that you are gone to the dogs now, after Mr. Vishwanath against this government. So, naturally you Pratap Singh took over. I think, unity of the are also against our supporting this govem­ country has been going to the dogs for the ment. Naturally that means that you want the last several years and the ruling Party at that country to go without any government; be­ time had an active hand in it, by helping to cause you cannot form the government, no 81 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAY ANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 82 government should be allowed to be formed; This is one of the causes of your debacle. It Let the country go down in chaos. That is happened because people do not want to be what you want. treated as second class citizens.

SHAI T. BASHEER: Is everybody any­ SHRI G. DEVARAYA NAIK: What body? happened in Haryana?

SHAI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Everybody SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Your meth­ else is anybody and you are not anybody. ods of defection are learnt by other peopieto You are also anybody. Who are you? You form a majority. are also as anybody as any of us are. You are not some super human figure. Every­ SHAI T. BASHEEA: You keep these body else is anybody and you are every­ things in your mind and you do not forget it. body. We do not agree with that. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: So, we de­ Let me make it clear. As far as we are cided and we conveyed it to the President concerned, we gave unconditional support that this government must be formed and we and conveyed it to the President in respect of shall support it from outside. (Inte"uptions) the formation of this government because Why do'we say that? We have a manifesto. the alternative is no government at all. Our Communist parties have got their own programme, their manifesto. The National SHAI A.A. ANTULAY: This is a new Front has got its own manifesto. Tha two ra situation. not the same. In fact, our manifesto and programme of the Left parties is naturally SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: This is a new from our point of view much more radical and situation, I agree, to which we are not accus­ much more comprehensive than perhaps tomed, any of us. We have always been the programme of the National Front can be. accustomed in the history of this country to But National Front programme and mani­ find elections producing a majority, some­ festocontains, inouropinion, aqequate items times massive majority, for one single party. and issues in it which, if implemented, which For so many years, nine elections, eight this government has pledged to implement elections, have been held to the Parliament. and we do not doubt the sincerity of their pur­ We have never been accustomed to a situ­ pose, if they carry out that programme, their ation in which no single party gets a majority own programme and manifesto, we think it and, therefore, a government has to be will take the country forward. It will be an formed and functioned with a different equa­ advancement. It may not be fully in keeping· tion of forces. It happened in many other with the ideology of the programme of the countries. But we are not accustomed to it. Leftists but it does not matter. We cannot in Therefore, we find it difficult to reconcile to it. one jump hope to pass over several stages In many other countries whictl are supposed and reach some other place. We are ad­ to be more advanced than ours, this kind of vancing slowly, step by step. That is what the situation arises frequently. There are coun­ people wanted. They wanted a change and tries where during the course of a year, four the change will be brought about. We are or five governments have changed without confident that the National Front, with our any election being held every time. There support. will be implementing this programme are many countries in which Prime Ministers seriously and in a sustained manner. Our are changed every few months, not the Chief support need not be taken for Ministers, who used to be changed every granted ... ( Interruptions) Every Congress two or three months, and no members of the friend I talked to outside this Chamber, in the ruling legislative assembly parties were ever Lobby or in the Central Hall, is so cocksure, aUowed to elect their own Chief Ministers, confident that the whole thi'lg will break their leaders. It was all decided from Delhi. down. (/ntBrruptions) 83 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 84

SHRI G. DEVARAYA NAIK: No, we that. .. " But nothing was done. National Inte­ never said it. Don't misquote. (Interruptions) gration Council consensus was not there. It did not function at all. Therefore, we wel­ SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Do you want come this Government's sincere approach me to mention the names? I have not quoted and their attempts. Consensus will include anybody. Although I mentioned some per­ everybody, including the Congress Party. sons, but I could not mention the names of That is the only way that we can now get persons. They say: flThey are standing in the together and save this very country from middle. You are holding on to one hand. The ominous developments which are taking BJP is holding on to another hand. How can place. Even if we forget about the past, who this last? This will break down .. " Please. is responsible, how much they are respon­ don't live in this hope because for the time sible; now there is no time to be lost. So, I being at least your party has forfeited com­ appeal to the Government, I appeal to the pletely the confidence of the people of this Prime Minister and I appeal to my friends of country. They are not going to bring you the Opposition also that with this outlook and back. Don't worry and rightly so. orientation towards a national censensus on those instances at least, let us get together, SHRI. G. DEVARAYA NAIK: That is lett support the Government and try to save the to the people, not to you. country and the people and safeguard its freedom and its integrity. SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Yes, not to you either. Therefore, Sir, we are supporting SHoRI R. MUTHIAH (Periyakulam): Mr. this Government on the basis of its own Chairman, Sir, first of all on behaH of my programme and manifesto. We will help it in Party, the All India Anna Dravida Munnetra every possible way to implement that pro­ Kazhagam (AIADMK) and our beloved gramme and manifesto. We welcome above Leader Puratchi Thalaivi Jayalalitha I ex­ aU the declarations of this Government that press my hearty congratulations to the hon. some issues which have become vital forthe Prime Ministerfor having risen to this highest future of this country, life and death, ques­ office of Democratic India. Also, we and our tions like Punjab, like Kashmir, like the dis­ leader have got some highest opinion per­ pute over the Sabri Masjid-Ram Janamb­ sonally about our Prime Minister. But at the hoomi issue will be solved· by national con­ same time we are unable to support his sensus. There are not party questions. They Motion of seeking confidence in his Council should not be dealt with as party issues. This of Ministers because of the simple reason Government has stated that broadest pos­ that his Government does not represent the sible national consensus will be built in order entire country and particularly it does not to find ways and means of tackling these reflect the minds of the people of Tamil issues and solving them. 11 is a very difficult Nadu. His party and his colleagues in the task, no doubt. .. (Interruptions) whole of South and particularly in Tamil Nadu have totally been rejected by the people SOME HON. MEMBERS: We support. in this election. Even though they have not been getting the people's majority verdict

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: 0 That is not they might be respecting the majority verdict the path which your Go~ernment ever took. of the people of Tamil Nadu. Now this Gov­ Your party, while in power, never even called ernment is acting against the wishes and an All-Party meeting to discuss Punjab verdict of the people of Tamil Nadu, I want to question. Here, on the Floor of this House, it point oot certain instances that are taking was repeatedly assured by the Home Minis­ place after this Government has assumed ter, by the Prime Minister: "Very soon, we are office. In particular, I would like to mention going to call the meeting; we are going to call that the hen. Deputy Prime Minister, as soon the National integration Council meeting. as he assumed office, rushed to Madras in a We are going to do this; we are going to do special flight, that too I am told, against all the 85 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30,1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 86 procedures of Protocol to be followed, to [ Translation] attend one Marriage function. In Madras, as the first announcement, he said that his *SHRIMATI RAJINDER KAUR BU­ Government would effectively implement the LARA (Ludhiana): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I extend three-language formula. But all of you know my support to the National Front Govern­ that Tamil Nadu is a State which has got a ment headed by Shri Vishwanath Pratap unique linguistic formula, that is, two-lan­ Singh. When Saba Sucha Singh was going guage formula which has been formulated to take oath, voices were raised from Con­ by our political mentor Dr. Annadurai who gress (I) benches that he was father of the was the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. In assailant of Smt. Indira Gandhi. May I ask as such a State, the Deputy Prime Minister to who is the killer. I think that the declares that he will certainly introduce and assailant. .when Beant Singh ... Indira effectively implement the three-language Gandhi...Beant Singh was made a martyr. formula, which means, that this Government When people were massacred in 1984, the is going to impose Hindi on the people of killers were not apprehended and punished. Tamil Nadu. This speech of the Deputy Prime One of my brothers-in law, who was at cap­ Minister has injured the minds of the people. tain in the army and was married only 28 Thus fear has been amounting in the minds days back, was on his way to Ahmednagar of the people of Tamil Nadu, for the past ten for undergoing a course. Though he was in or fifteen days. Moreover, the hon. Prime military uniform, the goondas of Indira Con­ Minister is supporting the Government in gress killed him in 1984 at Mathura. The Tamif Nadu which has been totally rejected Congress is responsible for the riots that by the people there. In the morning some of took place in Delhi and Bokaro in 1984. the Members of the ruling party and the'ir Thereafter thousands of Sikh youths were colleagues shouted for the dismissal of cer­ massacred in Punjab. Who is to be held tain State Governments in North. If at all this responsibleforthat? My husband Prof. Raji!1- Government wants to dissolve or dismiss a der Singh was W,orking in Horticulture De­ Government, the Government of Tamil Nadu partment of the Agriculture University. The which does not enjoy the confidence of even Government of Punjab branded every Sikh one-fourth of the electorate, should be dis­ in Punjab as a terrorist. Even if some one solved or dismissed immediately. This Gov­ visited somebody's house for a dinner, the ernment can say: uHow can we dismiss the host was charged with harbouring the terror­ Tamil Nadu Government when we ourselves ists. Raids were conducted on the premises are a minority Government here." But at of an intellectual and he was forced to flee his least they can try +0 implement the verdict of home. As regards the events that took place the people of Tanlil Nadu. in 1987, I would like to narrate my own woes and thereafter narrate the agonies which other people suffered during Congress Rule. In this electioo, the AIADMK and the I was tortured like any thing. Police officers Congress (I) had put forth the candidates known for their brutality were deployed after before the electorate of Tamil Nadu in order me, who treated Sikhs as their enemies. to take our beloved Rajiv Gandhi as the Brute officers were deployed with a view to Prime Minister and Madam Jayalilitha as the killing more and more people so that sikhs Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. For this, the were wiped out. When the police conducted people of Tamil Nadu have voted for us and raids on 4 April 1987, people were forced to they have given a clear mandate. As we leave their homes and go underground. I have got this mandate from the people, we was living alone in my house. If any of my are unable to support this Government and relatives came to my house, police took this Motion. them away. The police personnel did not

*Translation of the speeqh originally delivered in Punjabi. 87 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 88

[Smt. Rajinder Kaur Bulara] ment, the Congress Government branded us as secessionists. We have also a status. spare even my teenager son. They interro­ The Sikhs who came from Punjab to see the gated him to extract information. though he Asiad were stopped mid way. They were told was tOtally ignorant as I had not exposed her that the Sikhs were terrorists and therefore to the events taking place. They did not they could witness the games. Will anybody spare even my daughter and took her to the tell me where it is written? A number of police station. Women constables who are learned han. Members are sitting here. The supposed to do this work were never seen hone Speaker is also sitting here. Can any­ there. Inspedors notorious for using brute body tell me what type of Constitution is this? force were deployed in that Police Station. The C.R.P.F. was thrust upon Punjab. They The widow of Sardar Beant Singh has used to send as many as 10 vehicle!; at a since been elected as an M.P. Mr. Dhian time. Ludhiana was nothing less than a Singh Mand, whose three bothers were killed slaughter house. I was beaten by 15 police by that butcher Government. has also be­ personnel. May I ask as .to who is the enemy come an M. P. I am the wife of Prof. Rajinder of the oommunity and who is the dreaded Pal Singh who has been killed. Please tell us enemy of the humanity. Mine is not the lone today who are terrorists and who are seces­ case. My husband, Prof. Rajinder Singh had sionists'? The people elected me. People to run for life and hide himself by taking returned me from Ludhiana, which is consid­ shelter in turn in houses of relatives so that ered to be a strong-hold of the Congress, he could save his seH respect. He was a with a margin of 1r34,OOO votes. Today the professor and had inherited property worth people have -given a mandate that not sikhs crores of rupees. He was branded as a but Rajiv's Government was terrorist and terrorist and forced to leave his home. separatist. Mine is not the lone case of agony. It was the agony of every woman in He was arrested in sector 15 in Chandi­ Punjab. The Government had become en­ garh on 25th December, 1988 and bought to emy of all children between the ages of 15 Ludhiana the same day., He was last seen and 25 years. They were arrested without with the C.S. Staff at 9 P.M. Nobody knows any reason and beaten up. Whenever an what happened thereafter. He was beaten to er.=ounter took place as many as 20 of their death and it was said that he was killed in an men were killed. But this was never reported encounter. I was a fake police encounter. in the Press. A sikh is neither a terrorist nor Nowhere else in the world is the number of a secessionist. He is a true and righteous fake police encounters so high during Rajiv human being. He is the offspring of Guru Gandhi's regime in the last five years. On Gobind Singh who followed the tenets of 26th January we adopted the Constitution. truth. He cannot tolerate molestation of But unfortunately, it was on 26th January anybody's daughter or daughter-in-law. But 1989 that Rajiv Gandhi's Government mur­ that Government raped our womenfolk in the dered the Constitution. Prof. Rajinder Pal police stations. May I ask as to who is the Singh and two of his colleagues were shown murder? We have full faith in Shri V.P. Singh to have been killed in a police encounter. I who is our Prime Minister. I would request would like to know as to who is the assassin? him to prepare a list of all those children who The Congress Government or we? We have were killed and also those who were lodged taken oath in the name of the Constitution of in jailS. There were kept in jails for over 9 to India. We want to live in a democratic way. 10 months, but no case was registered But Indira and Rajiv's. Governments called against them. They were tortured in such a us terrorists. They gave the slogan of Khal­ way that they have lost their mental balance. istan and later attributed it to us. The term Now I hope the National Front Government Khalistan means purity. The place where would provide the healing touch to the sikh 'khalsa' lives is called Khalistan. Nobody psyche which was wounded by the Con­ demanded Khalistan. But Rajiv's Govern- gress Government. I shall remain grateful to 89 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHA VANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 90 this Government if this is done. The Sikh now. In course of discussion on thanks giv­ knows how to revolt because he neither ing moticn on the President's Address we tolerates atrocities nor himself commits any. will elaborate those points. I would also like This is all what I want to submit. to mention that the present government has come into existence not even for a month [Eng/ish1 and the government is actually entangled in the mesh created by the outgone regime SHRI NANI BHATIACHARYA (Ber­ headed' by Shri Rajiv Gandhi. But we see hampore): Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have al­ that within a very short period, this Govem­ ready conveyed our support to the formation ment has taken some forward-looking deci­ of the National Front Government to the sions. President. Not only the RSP but also all the constitutents of the Left. Front operating on SHRI R.N. RAKESH (Chait): What are an all-India level have conveyed their deci­ those? sion in support of Sh®i V.P. Singh who was asked to form the Government. Everyone of SHRt NANI BHATTACHARYA: You us knows under what circumstances this know about the autonomy for the media. vote of confidence in the Council of Ministers Then, there is the question of reservation for has come up. I on behalf of our party fully the scheduled castes and the scheduled support the motIon placed here by Shri V P tribes. Some forward-looking steps towards Singh and eXDre~s full confidence in the solving the problem of Punjab have been Council of Ministers. taken. Our Prime Minister has already vis­ ited Amritsar in a very examplary manner. It would have been better had there This Government has already taken for­ been no debate at allan this issue. It was ward-looking steps in many other directions, simple thing to convey our acceptance or regarding corruption, particularly the Bofors otherwise regarding this motion. We previ­ scandal which is identified with Shri Raj;v ously thought that there would not be any Gandhi's administration-personalty Shri debate over this Issue but because of the Rajiv Gandhi. wanting of the Congress we have to under­ take this debate. In short, on behalf of our party f we again fully support this Council of Ministers and the Everyone of us should know that we are motion placed by Shri V.P. Singh. passing through a critical phase of our his­ tory and we also agree that such a situation SHAI CHinA BASU (Barasat): Mr. has emerged after the Lok Sabha poll. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the motion of Through that poll the people of India have confidence moved by the leader of the House given a clear verdict against the out-gone and the Prime Minister of the nation. Congress (I) rule. Rather they have rejected the Congress (I) as a ruling party. In such a In the early hours of today's session, the situation after the election was over the House had the misfortune to listen to a formation of a new Government had to be roving speech from a frustrated politician done as no country can go without a govern­ representing some constituency in Mahar­ ment, on that occasion we came forward to ashtra.1 am sorry that the Congress (I) Party, give our support on the basis of their mani­ as a whole, has not realised the true,mean­ festo. We have our own manifesto. I know ing and significance of the manadate that the there are points of difference in that also. But people of our country have given during the even then there are national issues and elections to the Ninth Lok Sabha. The man­ national problems over which we must unite. date was clear. The clear verdict was that the We have to solve all those problems and people do not want the continuance of the National Front Government is pledged to do Government under the leadership of Shri that. I would not like to dilate on that topic Rajiv Gandhi. The people have unequivo- 91 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 92

[Sh. Chitta 8asu] 51 per cent and if you want to raise it to 51 per cent by you own arithmetical ways, I am cally decided to remove them from power, helpless. But the fact i~ that they got only 41 vanish them from power. The people of our per cent of the total votes ... (Interruptions) ... country have unmistakably expressed their I have already made a statement saying keen desire to have a change. That is the clearly that there has not been the clearest significance. That is the clear mandate. indication of the instrument for the realisa­ Unfortunately the Members sitting opposite tion of the hopes and desires of the people. to me have not understood this clearest Therefore, a new situation has been created possible mandate or the verdict given by the in this country and we are faced with the ultimate sovereign people of our country. situation. More than 60 per cent people have not voted for you. They have voted against The people decided to remove them you... (Interruptions)... Their claim is not from power because the former Government valid. They have been rejected. Therefore, led by Shri Rajiv Gandhi had pursued the they had no right to form the government or anti-people and anti-democratic policies. The to have the claim to form the government. people decided to remove them from power Now, the question remains as to who will because they had wanted to rule and not to form the government. (Interruptions) govern. They wanted to rule. They wanted to rule and as a matter of fact, they ruled DR. RAJENDAA KUMARI BAJPAI ruthlessly by resorting to repressive meas­ (Sitapur): You explain as to what is the ures and by resorting to distortion of demo­ justification for the 18 per cent ruling. cratic institutions of our country including Parliament. They have sought to remain in SHRI CHITTA BASU: I think you have power by subverting the judiciary of our not been able to understand my point. country. They sought to remain in power by denigrating other important democratic insti­ SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Their tutions of our country. O!Jr people are demo­ leader does not allow them to understand. cratic people. Our people are nature. In the course of their nature thinking, they have SHRI CHITTA BASU: It is better to given he clearest possible verdict. Because remain "ignorant. (Interruptions) of this electoral system which is prevalent in our country, there has not been the clearest SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: Oth­ indication of the party in which the people erwise, they cannot accept his as their leader. have reposed their faith. That has created a unique situation in Indian politics. People SHRI CHinA BASU: The concept of a have rejected the governments. It is equally minority government is not a new one in the true that people, in their verdict, have not concept of democracy. In democratic foreign been able to identify a particular instrument countries, minority governments did exist to bring about, to translate into action the and it is a frequent phenomenon. Of course, hopes and desires of our country. And this we have not got the example of that kind of absence of the dearest indication, as to the minority government here. But my statement choice of instrumentality, has created this is also not completely true because Mrs. new situation in our country with which we Gandhi had a minority government in this are not quite acquainted. Even now they country. Therefore, I am very sorry to say claim that still people have faith on them. I that only because of your ignorance, you are would like to quote one figure for my friend, taking this posture. The Government of the Mr. Sathe. Is it not a fact that Congress (I) National Front is a minority government. Party as a whole has secured 40 per cent or Nobody disagrees with the fact that the above 40 per cent of the total votes? I correct National Front by itself does not command myself. I can say above 41 per. cent. It is the majority of the House. It is known to aU more than 41 per cent. But 41 per cent ;s not and n;s very clear. But today, the situation 93 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 94 demands, the democratic polity of the ooun­ ~ent formed by the National Front will do its try demands that there should be a govern­ best to implement the electoral promises ment----even if it were a minority government made to the people. The election manifesto in itseH-enjoying the majority of the House. of the National Front seeks to tackle the economic, political and social problems AN. HON. MEMBER: Even at the cost created by you during your uninterrupted of principles? rule. You have created certain problems-­ very big national problems, political, eco­ SHRI CHinA BASU: No please. It is nomic and social. People have given their very much on the basis of principles. If you verdict that those problems created by you, are patient enough to hear me, I will properly should be solved by the National Front educate you about principles. Government. Therefore the task is very big. Yet, with the support and cooperation of the Therefore, it is a question whether the people at large, we hope that this Govern­ Prime Minister of the country enjoys the ment wi" be able to fulfil their electoral prom­ majority of the House or not. That is the only ises. I believe, the implementation of these consideration. And in his wisdom, the Presi­ policies enunciated by the National Front dent has given a direction and we are giving would ensure the democratic advance of our effect to that direction given by the Presi­ people and pave new paths for the realisa­ dent. tion' of the hopes and aspirations of the people. In this context, we should particu­ Now, my friend has raised the question larly mention about the correlation of the of policy. The National Front has got an class forces existing today. election manifesto as you have. You rely on your election manifesto as your basic pro­ A question has been raised about the gramme and basic policy. Why don't you stability of this Government. You are still accept the election manifesto ofthe National holding a suspicion about the stability of the Front as the declaration or enunciation of the Government. I wantto remind you that stabil­ policies and programmes of their Govern­ ity of a government does not depend on the ment? I say this because they have formed count of heads. You have the largest nUfilber the Government. So far as my party, For­ of Members in the House and you have the ward Bloc is concerned. we extended our largest number of Members in several State support unconditionally. The only condition Legislatures. Does it appear to you that is we have expressed a desire that the those State Governments which are run by National Front would implement sincerely the Congress had political stability? Had and fully, tothe extent possible, the electoral there been political stability, there would promises made to the people. That is a have been no necessity of changing the condition applicable for all. I think even the Chief Ministers as the calendar pages are members of the parties constituting the changed. Therefore, the political stability National Front owe it to the electorate. does not depend entirely on the number of Members present in the Parliament or the THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (PROF. Legislatures. I would urge upon the National MADHU DANDAVATE): That is our own Front Government and particularly the Prime condition also! Minister that the stability of the Government depends upon the implementation of the SHRI CHITIA BASU: That is what I programmes. That is the political aspect. I wanted to say. You see, that is a condition of hope, it has not occurred to you. You did not the hone Finance Minister of this country. believe in the political aspect. You believed Therefore, our support is unconditional. in ruthless ruling. I hope, there is a change in the attitude. The change in attitude is re­ We want and believe that· ~t this very flected by emphasising the need of imple­ critical juncture of our country, the Govern- mentation of the programmes. The change 95 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21, 1989 Council of Ministers 96

[She Chitta Basu] which were touched here, normally those references should not have become naces­ of the outlook of the Government ;s demon­ ~ry for me to take notice of. Because our strated and has been demonstrated by the esteemed friend Shri Advani said th.,t the new Government. They do not 'want to take genesis of the pr-esent Motion is the direction to the methods of confrontation but consen­ from the President of the republic. That itself sus. The situation that you have created can sets certain limitations, prescribes certain be solved only by national consensus. The parameters- within which we can make our new Government has understood the mean­ observations, for or against. But even at the ing of the verdict of the people. Therefore, risk of being slightly impertinent, I must say the stability of the Government is assured and place on record certain things. Mr. In­ and that can be assured further, if the Na­ derjit Gupta has rightly echoed the feelings tional Front Government emphasises upon nursed by a beginner like me who has en­ the implementation aspect of the Election tered the Partiament for the first time. What Manifesto. I saw from the morning did not perhaps entertain me, but slightly frightened and upset So far as my party is concerned, as I me. We are trying to bring a part of the have stated earlier, our support is uncondi­ muscular politics which we are experiencing tional. Our support is based on the verdict of in the streets of the country into the Parlia­ the people and the verdict of the people is to ment House once again. I would join Mr. ~ remove the Congress (I) from power. In the Indrajit Gupta: Let us not interrupt each days to come, I think the Congress Party other when we debate over the matter, a would be further in trouble and will be brittled matter of serious magnitude, a matter, the like anything. kind of which perhaps the Indian Parliament is experiencing for the first time viz. that this MR. CHAIRMAN: I request the hon. 8-day old Government is coming forth and Members to be very brief because the Prime seeking a Vote of Confidence from Parria­ Minister is going to reply to the debate at 5 ·ment. This, in itself, should have set us o'clock. thinking: how did it become necessary for the President of the Republic to prescribe a SHRI EBRAHIM SULAIMAN SAlT condition which was not there any time since (Manjiri): As far as possible, you allow one 1950 when the Constitution came to be Member from each Party to speak. adopted. It has its own genesis, and we will have to deal with that subject when we come MR. CHAIRMAN: That is what I am to the discussion on the President's Ad­ doing. I would request you to very brief in dress. Right now I will only say that there putting forth your points. was a unique situation which led to prescrib­ ing of this condition. And a condition has SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani): been prescribed. The present Raja Sahib as You ought to have made that request earlier. the Prime Minister is, of course, right in Now, we are the sufferers. taking the first opportunity of fulfilling the obligation placed upon him by the President SHRI PIYARE LAL HANDOO of the Republic. (Anantnag): Hon. Chairman, Sir, it is very unfortunate that before my name came to be ~alled I stood warned that I must be brief. In Having done so, it is everybody's right to fact that should have been the word of cau­ say that we support the Motion, to say that tion a little earlier and perhaps the heat that we do not say anything about the Motion or was generated during the course of the to say that we oppose the Motion. But in discussion might not have been there. Any­ between, perhaps, a misgiving started, and way, I will try to be as brief as I possibly can. it took birth along with the birth of the Govern­ But with reference to some of tre points ment; and that is agitating us. \97 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 ('SAKA) Council of Ministers 98

Right now, we heard a theoretical dis­ trict, his home distrid, to contest the elec­ cussion, a theoretical dissertation from my tions. I can tell you about it chapter by esteemed colleague from the Forward Bloc chapter, but when occasion comes. But right saying that a minority Government is not a now, his daughter was kidnapped. Very sad; new phenomenon; it is neither a new phe­ but, then, to fling the accusation that the nomenon in the country, nor in the world. But Central Government did not take the deci­ what is new in our country, ;s a minority sion, the kind and quality of which is known Government with its own manifesto, with the to the count~, is something Which does not manifesto of the National Front, with the behove a new Raja Sahib GOvernment so

manifesto of the Communist Party t with the soon after its formation. I will refer to that, manifesto of the BJP, each party seeking becaus~ it is my bounden duty to make the fulfilment of its manifesto, fulfilment of the facts known to this august House. I would pledges to the people. What was surprising like even the members of the Janata Oal to for me today, was to hear Comrade Gupta try to collect all the facts from the Home saying that the vote against this Motion will Minister. One thing should be regarded as mean vote for no Governmen1. That is not sacred: the facts. Inferences can be your so. A vote against the Motion will mean that own. You can draw any inference, inference if that decision is taken, we would refer it against the KashmirGovernment, inferences back to the people, seek their verdict­ again~t the Kashmir Ministers. All right. But whether they have a positive verdict in fa­ In determing facts, for God's sake be fair to .

vour of this party I or of other parties. Kashmir. Be fair to the Kashmir Ministry. Be fair to Dr. Farooq Abdullah. We will tell you For instance. simultaneously with the the whoie story, and we would like the Home swearing in of the Raja Sahib as the Prime tvljnister also to teil the whole story. Unfortu· Minister of the country, I heard a very es· nately. today when I sought an intervention! teemed leader of the Janata Dal saying that a reierence was made by my esteemed the future of the country is very bleak. It set friend trom Himacnal Pradesh to Pakistani a man like me coming from the northern flags being unturied in some parts of the State of Kashmir thinking: "How is it that the State. leader or the President of the party is being sworn in asthe Prime Ministerofthecountry, and the Vice President of the party says: 'A Not tt;at It is not a tact; it is a fact. decision might have been taken, but what t I /nterruptio!is~ foresee is the bleak future of the country." Believe me, the people who are not yet used tv1R CHAIR~AAN: Order, Of del' please. to parliamentary life, started thinking: '\tVhat has happened?' If that is so, then the Janata SHRI PfY;,~RE LAL HANDOO: l repeat Oal owes it to the nation, owes it to the it with full seflse at respor:~ibility that Paki­ country to repiy to the question: 'Do we stan Flag not once but a number oi times has inaugurate a Prime Minister by ensuring a ~een unfurled in the streets of Kashmir. All bleak future for the country?" persons know about it i take objactlO'l tc It, they are saying that it is sn offsnoo: of th~ Forgetthat. immediately thereafter came Punjab problem. VVhat is Kashmir p:-oolem? the Incident, a very unfortunate incident I.e. What :5 thE! PunJab prcoien!? ! t:2\,.'E' ';ourjd the kidnapping of the daughter of the Home that even one word about it has no: been Minister. The Home Minister is my personal used by 1r.e present Gcver:lmenT s;nce ;ts friend. We come from the same district, and inception. They taii(!d t~) GSG a ij,,'oro about

the same constituency though, unfortunately I terrOrism in rBanihal. He went to Punjab. \'Vhat is KashMi:- proDiem? (lnter·· contest in Poonch, but he did not dare enter ruptions) For the last 3-4 years teriorism ras the Banihal tunnel to reach Anantnag dis- been going on there. 'vVhy do you not talk 01 99 Motion of Confidence in DECEMBER 21,1989 Council of Ministers 100

[Sh. Piyare Lal Handoo] it through a Substantive Motion; don't be casual .. minded for raising those matters terrorism there? Why do you not talk of during Zero Hour. terrorism in Punjab? Hyou are really inter­ ested in solving the problem, the real prob­ [ Translation] lem is the communalism in the country. Unless YOl' recognise that communalism is SHRI SHIBU SOREN (Oumka): Mr. dangerous to the country, don't have any Chairman, Sir, while extending support on misconception that you can solve Kashmir behalf of theJharkhand Mukt; Morcha to Shri problem or that you can solve the Punjab V.P. Singh's Government I would like to problem. If you want to consider all the submit that we are the elected representa­ national problems, I can give you chapters tives of the people and we feel that the one by one during the course of the debate people expressed their choice while electing on the President's Address. Kashmir State us to this House. Today we are having a has been so much injured, so much hurt. discussion on the vote of confidence. The Decisions had been tqken in Delhi not today earlier Government was the Government of but right from 1952. You will have to take the Congress Party. It is crystal clear that the stock of those decisions and find out how people do not consider this largest party Le. much you h ave gone forward and how much the Congress Party asthe partyofthe people, you have come back. the downtrodden and the opressed. We come from that section of the society on whom You talk repeatedly of Article 370 know­ huge Government funds are spent. The ing full well that the days have gone when present-Government in Bihar and the earlier one could deal with it, when one could con­ Government in the Centre did never take up sider it .. Nobody can touch Article 370 if you the development of the areas predominantly love, if you respect your own Indian Consti­ inhabited by the Harijans, the Adivasis and tution. That job had to be done by the Con­ the minorities, which are rich in minerals and stituent Assembly. Having not done that job have potential for industries. That is why the nobody can do that job now. So, when you people of this country, were pricked by their talk of Kashmir problem, you talk of terrorism conscience and they decided to choose a in Kashmir. When you talk of Punjab prob­ Government which would provide an oppor­ lem, you talk of terrorism in Punjab. I have tunity to the common man to express their heard my beloved sister from Punjab today. grievances and instal Ministersoftheirchoice It is sad to know all these stories. But I don't who will listen to them. think the entire gam ut of the speech explains clearly about them. How do I explain the When we talk of unity and the integrity death of 18 young men in a hostel's room. we are face to face with truth. Today Shri Was it Congress role? Was it police role? V.P. Singh's Government has the support of Was it police excess? Why do you people small parties. Why? It is because all these ignore that side of Punjab? In this way, parties,' whether it is a small party or their solution to the Punjab problem will run away. allies like the Left Front or the B.J.P., all It will not be solved. You tell us their solution speak in one voice. Are all of them fools? and we will welcome it: we will be happy to be Why do they extend their support? It is with you. -But if you ignore the problem of because the people of the country want them terror-stricken people, then you will not be to do so. The people wanted a change. Th$Y able to solve the Punjab problem. You may wanted justice. People were fed up of price feel happy for some time but a streak of rise particularly of food items. Sir, that is why opportunism will start entering into your we contested the election and nowthe people politics right now, and who knows what will heaved a sigh of relief. People felt that the be its consequences. With these words, I Government under which they were living request all members that whenever a refer­ was not democratic and the State was no ence to Kashmir is to be made, kindly make good than a police state. People were sub- 101 Motion of Confidence in AGRAHAYANA 30,1911 (SAKA) Council of Ministers 102

jected to checkings at rifle point. When they (Manjeri): Mr. Chairman, Sir, this Govern­ said that they were han. citizens, the authori­ ment of Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh has ties never paid heed and persisted with the been tormed under a very strange situation, checking. This happened everywhere in Delhi unprecedented in the history of independent as well as in other states. But a wave of India. This Government has got its own change has swept the country. The people problems and has got its own dawbacks. belongin~ to the Congress Party, who were The solution of those problems will lead to in power, should now realise that the people the continuation of this Government. If they are supreme. Governments come and. go. fail to solve the problems, then there is very The party which is occupying the treasury little chance for the Government to be able to benches today may have to sit in the oppo­ run for a long time. sition tomorrow. It is a matter of 5 years. The \ Government should be run in accordance One thing I must tell you very frankly, with the wishes of the people. There is a big Sir, is that the electorate during the recent challenge before us today and that is of election to Parliament which has given a dividing the big states into smaller ones. The decision. The first and foremost fact is that Janata Oal, the B.J.P. and many other par­ the electorate has not given mandate in the ties have demanded a separate Jharkhand. last elections to any Single party. It has not It is an open fact that I got elected with this given mandate to any Party in the country. objective. I hope that this Government will The second thing that has been established seriously consider this demand. I feel that it is that the Congress is the first single largest is not a big problem. These are small prob­ party led by Shri Rajiv Gandhi today. Now terns. Today we think that the Punjab prob­ Shri Rajiv Gandhi has opted out from the lem is a major problem. I also f~el that it has race to the Prime Ministership of the country. become a serious problem. I was also an Then it was Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh, M.P. those days. I do feel that had govern­ leader of the National Front and the Janata ment entered into dialogue with them from Dal who has formed the Government. After time to time, they would have felt assured the formation of the GO,vernmen1 by Shri that their problems were being taken up Vishwanath Pratap Singh, the President seriously and such a situation would never asked him to prove his majority in this august have arisen. We have seen how they have House. Therefore, it is under these circum­ been maltreated. Atrocities were committed stances, we find that the Vote of Confidence on them. Their condition is highly deplorable has been moved in this House. We must not in Bokaro. forget at this Juncture that today our country is passing through a very critical period. We Sir, when say that the people of this have got important national problems shout­ country are supreme, we should act accord­ ing for solution. We have Punjab problem, ing to their wishes and implement their Kashmir problem, as has already been command. We have demanded a separate pointed out. And together with these we State. I am confident that our demand will be have got the most provocative, the most seriously considered. This will help in com­ serious problem, i.e. Ramjanam Bhoomi pleting the very task of reservation for back­ Babri Masjid. All these problems are there. ward classes, Adivasis and Harijans which is still incomplete. According to the thinking of my party, We are confident that this Government the Muslim league, the most important, the will march on the path of development and most serious and the most disturbing prob­ succeed. lem facing our country is communal vio­ lence. Sir, somebody has said here that 16.46 hrs. communalism is the danger. What is com­ [English] munalism? Nobody has so far defined it. And without defining what communalism is, to SHRI IBRAHIM SULAIMAN SAlT condemn minority party is something which 103 Motion til Confidence DECEMBER 21, 1989 in CouncI of Afinlst.,. 104

[Sh. Ibrahim Sulaiman Sail] supporting the Government from out­ side.- cannot be tolerated. If we want to condemn anybody, we must define what communal­ This situation is exactly prevailing hare ism is. Wllhout defining communalism, we today in the House. We wHI, therefore, not have no right whatS08V8rtocondemn minor­ quarrel with the form of (he government Ity organisations in this country. What is the though we have our own apprehensions. We situation in the country loday? The Muslim would like to extend our issue-based coop­ minority has no security for IHe and property eration to the Government. We will watch the in this country. What has happened at behaviour, the attitude and the policy of Shri Bhagalpur? I do not have to explain here. I V.P. Singh's Government in days to come. would only say that thousands and thou­ Therefore, we will judge every issue on its sands of people have been killed over there. merits. To allow time to the Govemment to Even today dead bodies in a decomposed prove its credentials we will, for the present, form are being dug out. Today 50,000 people support the Motion of Confidence. We have have been rendered homeless. This very our serious reservations but we will say that grave problem has to be tackled. The people the Government is on trial and will be con­ should feel secure. They must have security tinuously judged by us according to its per­ of life and property. I therefore say that this formance. Therefore, we will see how the is the most important problem of the country Government performs, how the Governm ent today. I am conscious of the fad that the solves the basic national problems and how present Government of Shri V.P .. Singh is a the Government comes forward with a na­ minority Government. 1t depends for the tional consensus. Our support will depend majority on two parties which are ideologi­ basically on the performance and the solu­ cally and temperamentally two extremes viz. tion they bring about with regard to the BJP and the Communists, with BJP believ­ nationai problem. Till then I wish the Govern­ ing -tn fascist ideas. That is a matter of ment welt. serious concern to one and all. I know that these parties have divergent views, diver­ [Translation] gent policies and divergent manifestoes. The fact is that this Government depends on the ·SHRI VAMANRAO MAHADIK (Born· mercy of BJP and charity of communists. But bay South Central): Mr. Chairman, on behalf despite all this, I must concede that a party of my party Shiv Sena, I rise to lend my forming Government with support of those support to the motion expressing confidence outside the Government, is a perfect parlia­ in the Government. I have been allowed by mentary model. my party chief to support this motion. Forthe past 40 years Congress party was ruling this Here I would like to refer to Sarkaria country. The people of this country were Commission's report. Even Sarkaria Com­ thoroughly frustrated with this rule. We mission envisaged such possibilities. He may wanted to end this rule. Therefore without have referred to States but it is valid also for any second thought we are expressing our the Centre. The Report says at page 135 of support.to this Government. The verdict of Part I that the Governor can allow such a the people which has gone in favour of other situation. Stating the order of preference, it parties then Congress (I) is itself indicative of visualises: the fact that the people were fed up with Congress rule which amounted to monoply "A post electoral alliance of parties, of single political party. with some of the parties in the alliance forming a government and the remain· Sir, there is a need to have national ing parties, including "Independents", reconstruction on secular lines which im-

-Translation of speech originally delivered in Marathi. 105 Motion of Confidence AGRAHAYANA 30,1911 (SAKA)in Council of Ministers 106 plies that appearing minorities has no place among the poor has also increased. ,The in our national policies. Gandhiji himself Finance Minister of the new Government suffered on this account-of this buttting of has said that steps would be taken to check minorities-because publication of one of rising prices. This means that the present his books by Shri Apte supported because of Government is conscious of the problems the i,Supreme Court decision. Gandhiji felt being faced by the poor and would like to that the decision of the Supreme Court was alleviate their sufferings. The erstwhile running counter to our avowed policies. Government made no efforts to bring down National reconstruction on secular lines has the price index. The Belgaum border prob­ not been possible so far. They are taking lem has been pending for the past 30 years. steps in this direction and it was with this The Congress{l) is in power in Karnataka as purpose in view that Shri Antulay, Chief well as Maharashtra. The Chief Ministers of Minister of Maharashtra. set up a 'Sarva both these States can sit together and solve Dharmo Sabha'. He is acting as a messen· this problem. But they will not do so. Even ger sent by God. I do not know as to how he Shri Antulay, who is a good lawyer, has not agreed to take over the charge of the Minori­ done anything about it. But I don't mind. ties Protection cell on the directive of Shri Although he is a good barrister yet he did not Rajiv Gandhi. He mayor may not be an make any reference to it here in this House. acceptable leader within the Congress (I). I request him to do something in this direc­ We have heard his criticism of the Congress tion. He wanted to know the stand on the (I) when he was expelled from the party. Yet, Ram Janam-bhoomi issue. The Supreme we know that he was not sincere even to Court has given a decision regarding Ram what he said. He also spoke of mass weffa~ Janam-bhoomi. The Congress(l) should be and maintained that secularism is to be consulted on what is to be done if anyone protected by the Government and that IS why acts against that decision. he had pleaded for the protection of human­ ity. But he was not sincere even to that. 17.00 hrs. Today the majority in our country gets noth· ing while the minorities get aU facHities. Our Secondly I there should be uniiorm law leader Shri 8al Thackeray of Shri Sena h?d for al! the peopie. No reference has been said in Shlvaji Park that the Prime Minister made about the necessity of haVing a un!­ should go to Amritsar and apologise for the form civil code. In the Shah Bana case the army operations in Amritsar by the Govern­ Supreme Court decided in favour of 'mainte­ ment of the late Shrimati indira Gandhi. This nance' but the Congress(t) amended the law the present hen, Prime Minister did. This and conformed to S hariat. It was not appro­ created a good atmosphere there. VVe are priate for the Congress Government to take not gOing to support the element which has such an, action. Our Government will try to been creating trouble in Punjab for the lastS- work according to law. All problems will be 6 years but we will certainly support the solved within the legal framework. This will present Government as it has taken a firm helpthe country to survive. They have taught step towards solving the Punjab problem. us that our country is great. We also believe We will work with the Bhartiya Janata Party. that our country. India. IS great. This Govern· Since they have extend~d their support we ment is not interested in money making. are reciprocating. I do not want to raise the (Interruptions) we have to take care of eve­ issue of Bofors ... (Interruptions) When tre ryone. This is my submission. hon. ex-Prime Minister visited Bombay he said that his Government had given crores of [English] rupees for the welfare of the poor but in the Jast 40 years, 850/0 of the funds allocated for them did not reach the poor. The poor have MR. CHAiRMAN: Now, a statement to not been able to get proper food, clothing, be made by the hon. Minister of External shetter and drinking water. Unemployment Affairs, Shri I.K. Gujral. 107 Motion of Confidence DECEMBER 21, 1989 Statt. by Members 108 in Council of Ministers SHRI DINESH SINGH (Pratapgarh): Mr. 17.05 hrs. Chairman, Sir, before you ask the han. For­ eign Minister to make a statement, I should STATEMENT BY MINISTER like to draw your attention to the statement made by the Minjster for Parliamentary Af­ Re: U.S. Intervention In Panama fairs this morning. In regard to Panama question, he had said that the Government [English] has taken note of the US action in Panama. The Government has already issued its THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AF­ reaction. Now, when the Parliament is in FAIRS (SHRII.K. GUJRAL): Around 1130 session, it ;s customaryior the Government hrs. Indian Standard Time on December 20, that any statement of this kind is to be made the US troops commenced military action in in Parliament first and not made outside. I Panama. According to an official US Gov­ should like to know whether that statement ernment spokesman, President Bush or­ has been made outside and where it has dered the US military forces into Panama in. been made and whether it is the same state­ order to "protect American lives, restore the ment that the Minister is making here or it is democratic process, preserve the integrity of a different one. the Panama Canal treaties and apprehend General Manuel Antonio Noriega." THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AF­ FAIRS (SHRI I.K. GUJRAL): The hon. According to reports available until now, Member has drawn my attention to this point. US military action in Panama is continuing No statement has been made outside the and fighting has not as yet ended. House as yet. It is for the first time that the Government is making an authorised state­ The Government of India has been ment. (Interruptions) deeply concerned at US armed intervention in Panama and deplores the action. We also MR. CHAIRMAN: He denies it and that regret that the action has led to loss innocent is all. lives in Panama.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, the ( Interruptions) Minister of Parliamentary Affairs has said that Government has already issued its SHRI SANTOSH MOHAN DEV (Tripura reaction. I thought we heard it. We have got West): What is all this public speech? What the transcript now. The. transcript says ex­ is he talking? We have not got any copy. actly what we heard in this House that the (Interruptions) How can you allow it, Sir? Government has already issued its reaction. ( Interruptions) If it has not issued its reaction, then has he misled the House or is he not aware of what SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Almora): Mr. the Government is doing? If he has issued it Chairman, I am on a point of order, Sir. outside the House, it is a breach of privilege ( Interruptions) and if he has not issued it outside, it is misleading the House. MR. CHAIRMAN: After the Statement is over, copies will be distributed.

SHRI I.K. GUJRAL: In the morning SHRI I.K. GUJRAL: As the House is , when the Statement was being prepared I aware, India is fully committed to uphold the brought it to the notice of the House and I principle of non-intervention in the internal would state it now and with your permission, aff airs of States and non-use of force for r submit. settlement of disputes. India has always maintained that negotiation is the best way for arriving at peaceful s~ttlement of dis- 109 Stan. by Members AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) Motion of Confidence 110 in Council of Ministers putes and that applies equally to the situ~ a good beginning. ation in Panama and problems in Central America. Our position is also consistent with [English] the United Nations Charter to which all members of the US have subscribed. MR. CHAIRMAN: If all of you agree, let the Rules Committee decide all these mat­ It ;s the hope of the Government of India ters. that the US armed interv·ention will end soon and American forces will be withdrawn rTranslation] quickly. SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I suggest that the I am sure the House will wish that in Rule Committee should consider this matter. Panama it will be possible for the people to When the hone Minister makes a statement establish the democratic process. all han. Members should be given an oppor­ tunity to seek clarifications on any point. The internal situation in Panama is confusing and we are in touch with our [English] Ambassador. MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Advaniji, your SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (Sivaganga): point is well taken. This can be placed before The Government is setting up a new prac­ the Rules Committee where we decide. If tice, Sir. you all accept, no objection.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE We shall now resume the discussion on (Bolpur): Never ... (Interruptions) Vote of Confidence.

SHRI I.K. GUJRAL: When last reports were received from him, fighting was still going on in the streets near our Chancery. I 17.08 hr.s. am pleased to inform the Ho.use that an members of the Mission are safe. Our Mis­ MOTION RE: CONFIDENCE IN THE sion has so far received no report of any loss COUNCIL OF MINISTERS-CONTD. of life as far as Indian nationals in Panama are concerned. [English]

SHRI L.K. ADVANI (New Delhi): Sir .... SHRI GOPAL RAO MA YEKAR (Panaji): Mr. Chairman, Sir, as solitary Member of the MR. CHAIRMAN: This is not allowed smallest State Goa and the smallest party, here. Maharastravadi Gomantak party. I rise not to add any arguments in the debate, but only to SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I want to make a express my sentiments on behalf of my subm iss ion . I am aware that. .. people and the Party.

[ Trans/ation] I have heard with rapt attention the speeches made by the senior Members According to the convention no clarifi­ belonging to various parties. I was very happy catiolls are allowed after the hone Minister to note that the parties whose bona fides makes a statement. I ~m a junior Member in were doubted by the Opposition benches this House. But I have been a Member of the have in unequivocal terms expressed their Upper House for many years and' feel that full support to the Prime Minister and his the convention followed there should be party, especially because the political cynics started in the Lower House also. This will be generally create an atmosphere of, what 111 Motion of Confid.nce DECEMBER 21, 1989 in Council of Minist.1S 112,

[She Gopal Rao Mayekar] the people and there was no substance in that. The mockery made on the personalities should I say, no-confidence outside having a like Shri Devi Lal and Shri V.P. Singh was not wishful thinking that this coalition or this auguring well to the House. consensus or whatever it is called, will break out. After listening to the speeches by the Sir, It is the new hope that is created in senior Members and ~specially the sister the heart of the people and I hope that the from Punjab, it was heartening to note that Opposition benches will take it in a demo­ the Government has started on a very firm cratic sense. I also hope that they will always ground. give-8s they have said-constructive sup­ port to the Government. As a Member from Mr. Chairman. Sir, as a Member from Goa. I would like to reiterate my faith in Goa, I would like to express the sentiments Gandhiji's principles of non-violence, truth of Goan people 10 say that as members of and love. I was very much amused when the Maharastravadi Gomantak Party though Shri Antulay referred to the Congress, glori­ we had regional issues at stake in the elec- fying it as Gandhi and Nehru's Congress. If "tion campaign, we have towed the line taken you go to Goa, you will find bars and liquor by the National Front in almost all the fields, shops opened everywhere by this Congress­ economic, social and political and therefore, I Ministry. There are more liquor shops and it is my duty to express my full support as a less coffee and tea shops opened by this Member of Parliament, as a representative Congress-I Government and therefore I think of the people, to the new Government that is they have no legal as well as moral right to formed at the Centre. utter the name of Mahatma Gandhi. Shri Vamanrao Mahadhik quoted the problem of Mr. Chairman, Sir, it has created a new Maharashtra-Karnataka border. For the last hope in the minds of the people. I had the 30 years, they are expressing their desire occas;cn to talk to the common man in the through democratic process to merge with street. The man who has no political educa­ Maharashtra. I hope this new Government tion has fuillaith in the new comer at the helm v1ill have full faith in democracy and will give of affairs. He has expressed his iove. full proper attention to this problem to give sol­ faith and confidence in our new Prime Minis­ ace to the aspirations of the people of the ter and I think this is very significant 3S far as border region 01 Maharashtra. the people of India are concerned. Sir; at the wish of my people, I invoke a Sir, I heard with rapt atlention what Shri very great prayer of a great spiritual leader of Antulay had said in the morning. I am sur­ Maharashtra Shri Dhianeshwar. He said in prised to know at wha110ss he wa~if Oppo­ his Dhaneshwary, the exposition on Gita as sition parties come together and support the follows:- minority Government. Is it not a constitutional obligation on the part of the parties con­ ICDuritathe timiT javo, Vishwa Swardhar­ cerned in the interest of the nation? If at all masurye Paho, we call at an experiment, perhaps it is a Jo ji vachheel to te laho Pranijaat." historical occasion in the democratic life of the country and! think it may perhaps be­ What a great piayer it is for the entire come an example for ail other countries universe! He says. "Let the darkness of sin or internationally for solving the international let the darkness of evil disappear from our issues. The argument put forth by Shr.i Antu­ life: let there be the sun of righteousness lay is not new to the House. I remember the shining all the time; let there be fulfilment of two-page tong advertisement published by the desire of every being, not only human the Congress-I for the publicity as an elec­ baing, but of every being." Perhaps, I think, tion campaign they contained all that Shri that is the motto of our coming together in Antulay had said. It was totally rejected by this august House. I once again reiterate my 113 Motion of Confidsncs AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) in Council of Ministers 114 full faith in the Government and I express full is the difficulty for them to hear me. (/ntemJp­ support to the Motion of Confidence put forth tions) by the Prime Minister. I am really doubtful whether this Council SHRI P.C. THOMAS (Muvattupuzha): of Ministers would be able to deliver goods Mr. C~airman. Sir, the Kerala Congress party, because it IS being supported by forces who though it has go only Ol')e seat, has won all cannot come together on vital issues which the seats which it has contested. We con­ are facing this country. For example, even at tested only one and we have won that seat. this stage when the burning problem which I am sorry to submit that I do not support the are now at hand cannot be discussed to­ Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister. gether and cannot be resolved because both Now, the ruling party has a Government, as the supporties Parties will not take a com­ admitted and reiterated by their leaders, mon view on very many matt~rs. which is a minority government, supported by a majority. Though that is admitted, ac­ I would submit that the Government has cepted and recognised by our Constitution, taken the view that they would arrive at here we have a Government which is sup­ consensus. But how is it consensus to be ported by mutually contradictory and mutu­ arrived at? Consensus will be arrived only if ally destructive forces. In fact, we have the all the parties come together, all the different BJP which accuses the Communists as for­ groups come together and come to a com­ eign agents. I do not think that our Prime mon view. Here, we are sure that they can­ Minister would like to get the support of not come to a common consensus on 'very '10reign agents" to rule this country. Simi­ vital problems. They were not able to face larly, the Communists would in turn say that the electorate with a common programme the BJP represents a communal force. I do suggesting that all of us vouch for such a not think that my learned friends sitting there policy, all of us can stand together for such would like to rule this country, with the sup­ and such policy. We have absolutely no port of communal force. Then, with the sup­ confidence in this Council of Ministers and port of these Parties how come the Govern­ that they will be able to give a good rule to this ment face the burning problemsof this coun­ country. I am not adding further because of try? Now, we see that the Government has lack of time. J would say that I would like to brought forward this Motion of Confidence, abstain from voting in favour of this motion. as stated by others, before the President's Address was to be discussed. J do not know MR. CHAIRMAN: . Shri A.K. Roy. why the Government was very particular to bring this motion first, though the President SHRI A.K. ROY (Dhanbad): Mr. Chair­ only said, "Prove your majority." The major­ man, on behalf of my party, I extend my ity could be proved while passing the Motion support to this motion. of Thanks on the President's Address also, which the House would be taking up very By moving this motion for confidence. shortly. But probably our Prime Minister and our Prime Minister has put many of us into the Government want to ascertain and want difficulties. In the past we have seen good to further get it ascertained that BJP and Left government, bad government, majority Front Parties are supporting them. It is done government, strong government but, against so because it is doubtful as it has been stated every government they used to be some by some of the learned friends that when people or party who used to vote either for or issues come up, whether the Communists against. But this is a minority government and the BJP will be able to support such and I am very much surprised to see that issues together. (Interruptions) nobody has the courage to vote against this government. They should have at least the I only said, they cannot support each courage to vote against it, but even the party other on such vital issues. I do not know what which was ruling and now in opposition. has 115 Motion of Confidence DECEMBER 21, 1989 in Council of Ministers 116

[Sh. A.K. Roy] problems have been inherited from the past and they require a Caesarean operation in not the courage to vote against it and de­ our body-political to implement all those cided to abstain. There are certain compul­ socio-political goals for-the uplift of the people. sions which have forced the people from the But this Govemment met with an unlimited other side to accept this position. This elec­ company but they have one limited purpose. tion has definitely shown an opinion against I do not praise our Prime Minister as a very the previous ruling party. They did not give able Administrator or imaginative leader and confidence to any of the parties but the all these things. I definitely welcome his verdict was for the change, and the compul­ pursuit of value-based politics. If this Gov­ sion of that verdict for change is such that ernment does nothing else but tries to re­ nobody has the courage to oppose this store the value-based politics, that is wel­ government and this is the inherent strength come. I would finally like to say that this of this allegedly weak and minority govern­ Government would have to take extreme ment. . steps t6 implement any good social and political schemes. Many problems have been raised by mover of the opposition party and I have only With these words, I extend my support to say that the Congress-I party ·should have to this Government. less controversial men to represent them. At present, the Congress-I has started being THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI VISH­ the representative of only such controversial WANATH PRATAP SINGH): Mr. Chairman, persons, to which they have got no answer. Sir, first I thank all the leaders of those It has also been stated that we have bor­ parties and the Members who have partici­ rowed a Congressman to head an opposi­ pated in this debate on the Motion before the tion government, the Janata Dal govern­ House. I thank the parties which have ex­ ment. I have been told everywhere that pressed theil\,support on the Floor of this Congress is the alternative to the Congress. House and also at the time of the formation Where are the Congressmen? From that of the Government. side, there is no Congress. But there is only Congress-I. The person have changed, their Before I proceed, Sir, I am quite in character has changed, their symbol has consonance with the ~eelings expressed by changed and their have and Manifesto have Shri Indrajit Gupta about the dignity and changed. They cannot claim the heritage of decorum of the House. It was in this House the other old Congress. Except a few here that perhaps in some haste Pandit Jawahar; and there, they cannot claim the heritage of lal Nehru made some comments regarding the Congress party which has worked for Shyama Prasad-ji. But it was Nehru himself, independence. The freedom fighters and after some time, who stoop up on the Floor sufferers for freedom are more on this side of the House and said: "Perhaps I should not (government side) now, than on that side, have made those comments and in the pro­ the opposition. ceedings that portion may be expunged. " It was then that Shyama Prasad-ji stood up Sir, I hope that those proble~s like the and said: "The very fact that this thought has Babri Masjid-Ram Janam-bhoomi, like the cruised in the mind of Shri Jawaharlal Nehru, Punjab problem, like the problem of commu­ there is no need for expundion of the re­ nalisl}l and many other things like that which marks." In fact, it was a batUe of courtesy. We have been mentioned in the President's do not have the lUXUry of scoring debating Address are not so easy things to be solved. points. What we are facing today before the They cannot be solved overnight. I under­ country is far more serious and this time of stand it. But I do not put that much hope on the House -I think we all owe it to the people those people also. I want to emphasise that who have sent us here to use every minute . point also. But I would like to say that these of it to address ourselves to those major · 117 Motion of Confidence AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) in Council of Ministers 118

issues that the country is facing and the themselves-is' that this psyche has been hurt people, particularly the toiling masses, are and precisely that is why the cribbling and facing. complaint as to why this Government. There was a hope. Earlier we were told when the Sir. some remarks have been made National Front was formed that it would about the Oath-taking of the Deputy Prime never hold, that it is a national affront. That Minister Ch. Devi Lal-ji. It was in this very was our Front. Let there be introspection House that while taking Oath here, some why people affronted to send the National

extraneous remarks were made. Then the Front. And it was then said: II Well, let the Speaker gave a ruling. Point of objections distribution of tickets come, Janata Oal will were raised. He gave the ruling if some fall out." I think it was this philosophy which extraneous things come while taking the also persuaded the party in opposition to Oath, that does not necessarily vitiate the conclude that it will not be possible to elect a Oath." The matter went to the High Court and leader; then it will not be possible to get the the High Court also upheld the ruling of the support' of both the left parties and the BJP Chair. and even if all this happened, they will not be able to form the Cabinet. And then it will be 17.30 hrs. a grand time to tell the people why they were saying so. In fact, the game plan has gone [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] awry and sour. That is why, the sourness and bitterness. In so far as the President himself has issued the notification that all the oaths are in order, But now, the point is about a minority I think, the debate is closed. There is not Government. Yes, it is a minority Govern­ much to debate upon it. ment. And it has its limitations. Let us frankly accept it. Shri Antulayji, I know his talents and all the expertise he has in this matter of cementing But let us not see it only in this context. the arguments qf his party, the Congress let us see it in the broader political scenario Party. I find that it has been more of sand and of the country and the political processes less of cement. And the arguments do not that have been taking place. After independ­ hold just (ike grains of sand. ence Congress emerged, as a result of the freedom movement, as the central focal point About the magnanimity of the leader of of political power and it also was the large the Opposition of offering this Government mass of political gravitation which pulled on a platter, I do not know why the magna­ everything in. Other parties were at the pe­ nimity was missing with Antulayji while he riphery-may be for a developing country for was cribbling all the way about how this its stability, that situation after a freedom Government has been formed. In fact, I movement which is cut of a mass movement think, the point why this is so is, you have may be the right thing. said that I have been borrowed. Certainly, have no hope that if you borrow yoo can take But after decades and decades the situ­ back. But I have some understanding of the ation remained and there was an aspiration psyche-that psyche ~hould have been of the people. I am not making any argument there-and the psyche is that the opposition of numbers. When we address ourselves to can never unite and whenever elections the political situation of the country, it is not came, the party in opposition was always confined to numbers. Numbers are impor­ sure, let the elections come, let the distribu­ tant in the procedure; but the stability of the tion of tickets come and everybody will fall country is more important than numbers. apart. In fact, what has happened today with the support of the left parties and the BJP It was the aspiration of the people that it and other parties-whoever have expressed does have real political alternatives. And this . 119 Motion of Confidsnce DeceMBER 21, 1989 inCouncilolUinist8lS1~

[Sh. Vishwanath Pratap Singh] whether -the Government has changed or the Prima Minister has changed or the Min· eVolution of real political options did not ister has changed or not. But the question is fructify. Yes, in 1977 it ~id; but'then again I those who work and toil, whether those who think it is still in a process of development. I live in huts their lives wiD change or not. I don't see that it is absent. It is in the process think, the parties who are lending support, of development and at this stage for the have made this very clear and I think this is decision of the other parties who have after the biggest guarantee for the people who are very considered thought in the whole context outside Parliament, who think that in this of the country taken a decision in the political House, it is not some remark to remark process that is happening to support the exchanges, but something which really af­ National Front Government, I am thankful fects their lives on daily basis, will be decided and grateful to them. They are very candid and to them, we give some ray of hope. So, about it, because as Indraji Guptaji said, what looks today as a delicate balance of people did want, do want a Government political forces may turn out to be the most Advaniji said it is on certain policies and glorious occasion for the maturity of our implementation, on issues. Somnathji also democracy, from personalised politics to said it and just now cert-ain Members have issue-based politics. expressed the same thinking I think this is very very significant. I think this is the happi­ Yes, there are problems. There are est thing that can occur to Indian politics. differences of stance, opinions and perspec­ Therefore, once on a national scale the tives. When the socio-economic system is commitment to issues has arisen, imple­ heterogeneous, the political system cannot mentation of the programme has arisen and be homogenous. Let us not look for homoge­ not blind support in any case, whatever may neity in the political system when the socio­ come. economic system is heterogeneous. These contradictions of the socio-economic sys­ SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: To tem have to be and should, in a democratic one person. process get reflected, get voiced, but while these differences are voiced, it is part of SHRI VISHWANATH PRAT AP SINGH: political management and the sagacity of Yes, we are very clear. From personalised political' management is tested, whether politics we want the Indian democracy to between heterogeneity, commonality can mature to issue based politics. I think today be found or not. That commonality we found. in my heart I am the happiest man to see it This is our effort and collective effort and it is beyond numbers and beyond parties who a very serious effort, when we talk of consen­ are here and who are on that side. An issue sus, when we talk of reconciliation. because and a debate has been raised in this country there is the ruling party, there is the opposi.. that political support will depend on policies, tion, but beyond the ruling party and the programmes and their actual implementa­ opposition, is the country and it is here, on tion on the ground. In the country, the future those issues, that we are finding a consen­ of the country and its destiny is not hung on sus and reconciliation. It is not a process of the spelling of a name, but on what actually giving up one's ideals or principles. it is not happens to the people. Because, Sir, I know a question of ba~gaining or any exchange, I there are many people who have fought all think it was very uncharitable to have an through their lives for the working people, for oblique reference to the BJP and the Left the country. I know they are not interested in parties, as to what price has been fixed. I simple names. If the spelling of the Prime think, for maintaining the national integrity,­ Minister has changed. I do not think that the country's integrity-any price can be akes the difference; or if the spelling of the fixed and that is this. Minister has changed, I do not think that makes any difference. The question ;s not So, it is not the numbers we have seen 121 Motion of Confidence AGRAHA YANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) in Council of Ministers 12~

that generates the credibility of the Govern­ fires had been stoked much earlier and tot ment. The last Government had the largest day they are the burning problems. number on its side ever in the history, since -Independence. But the numbers could not There is also a need of re-conciliation help. The dialogue in this House is not con­ b(.~use it IS said in times of war only, such fined to the wafts of this House; it extends to . an attempt is there. It is a situation of war-not " the 80 crores 6f people; that is the real House external. Hyou see the situation in Jammu and the political power is generated from and Kashmir, to what levels it has been there. It is the confidence and credibility allowed to deterioriate or in Punjab or on the there-that is the guarantor of any Govern­ economic side, if you see the balance of ment and nothing else, and I think, we shall payments; if you see the deticit and also the strive for it. We are not ostentatious; we do foreign debt-I do not want to apportion any not want to boast. We come to it with humil­ blame on the Opposition but I extend the ity. And that will be our goal and that will be invitation to that side. I extend the invitation our endeavour. And about opinions there to the benches opposite that let us come has been a mention. Well, I think, democracy together and grapple with them together. I is dead the day there is no debate. Democ­ extend the invitation from any side. racy by nature is argumentative. We must realise the character of it. Clash of opinions SHAI RAJIV GANDHI: (Amethi) : Mr. is not its weakness but its strength and we Speaker, Sir, I accept that invitation to sit have seen when this clash of opinions was together with the han. Prime Minister and killed democracy was ~illed. Not only de­ grapple with these questions and we will mocracy but national interest was jeopard­ work constructively to grapple with them. But ised. Let us not put such unity on such a high we do need a certain understanding, an pedestal that under it democracy is crushed. . understanding·, for example, that those Many a tomb-5tone of democracy has the peopla who demand Khalistan will be ar­ inscription' unity'. So political vibrancy of rested or some action taken against them. democracy has to be maintain~d while there We do need to know whether the Govern­ .has to be unity on- national issues. This will ment is going to soft-pedal on the Anandpur be our perspective and this will be our oroad Sahib resolution or not. guiding light of management of politics of this government. Sir, we do need to know whether funda­ mentalism which is once more on the rise, Now Antulayji has asked me several when meat shops and liquor shops have question. He has asked me about Punjab. been closed, when Hindus have been asked He has asked me about Jamnlu and Ka­ to leave hostels and other things in Punjab, shmir. He has asked me about Ram Jan­ how is that going to be tackled? It has started ambhoomi and Babri Masjid. But Antulayji, in the last two weeks. We would like to know you have not exhausted the whole list of what the Government is doing to prevent question which we have inherited. Perhaps weapons and secessionists from entering you joined a little late, otherwise you would religiou~ institutions. There are a number of have been aware of the whole list of ques­ other questions like 1his which I could ask­ tions. Yes, these are the questions. These which I will perhaps ask on another occa­ are the questions that as soon as we have sion-but the hone Prime Minister has dodged entered office and not even when we en­ these questions and not answereQ them. tered office but when we were in public, we were aware of them. We also partake to In the President's A~dress, the word address ourselves to those questions. There 'secessionist' has not been used in Punjab. are many burning problems. As has been It is extremely sad. ( Interruptions) We will said, many a time or all the time I am asked, talk about that. I am just mentioning it. what is your view? But if they are burning problems today let it not be forgotten that the Again. the Prime Minister has said that 123 Motion Qf Confidence DECEMBER 21, 1989 in Council of Ministers 124

(Sh. Rajiv'Gandhi] who was calling for Khalistan, could not be arrested because of vacillation on the part of national integration and national unity is of this Government. utri10S~L irnporla.n'ce. BLit in Kashmir, they were liM..,. to let go five ~errorists when the . SHRI.VISHWANATHPRATAPSINGH: price could have been much less. It is a pity Sir, let me make myself clear. I am not that the Prime Minister has avoided answer­ answerable to the Governor. I am answer­ ing these questions today. ' able to this House. And it would not have been even five minutes" Sir~ but for the SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP ~lNGH: intervention in between. On Punjab, our first With all respect, I have been prejudged on attempt is to generate an atmosphere ... my answer before even I have completed it. (Interruptions). '

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: He has AN HON. MEMBER: Vacillation' interpreted your speech. SHRIVISHWANATHPRATAPSINGH: SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: Let it not be known of any vacillation. We No, I will not say this. I am addressing myself were 104 when we walked out of this House to these issues and we have addressed and you all said: IIGet out. lilt is we who told ourselves to them earlier also. you then our decision." : You will get out." And that has come true. ( Interruptions) So, Recently, we had an all-party meeting don't talk in those terms. There is no ques­ and on these very issues, we made our­ tion of compromising on the land of the selves very clear. We made ourselves clear country. We stand for the security of every that there is no question of compromise with person in Punjab. We also stand for justice the secessionists. \"V'e made ourselves and fairness and if there has been injustice clear .... anywhere, that has to be removed. On Jammu & Kashmir ... ( Interruptions). ( Interruptions) SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: No an­ SHnl RAJIV GANDHI: But you have not swer! "'( Interruptions). , taken action against them, Sir. SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: J am ready ..... ( Interruptions). Just a mo­ I will appeal, Sir, that the leader of the Oppo­ ment. ... ( Interruptions). I have no problem sition at least is not giving me even five days Sir. We are in the very first initiative. We went ,while he had five years: to Punjab and what Punjab needed most was not bayonets but a message of ·trust. SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: 'With your per­ And that is the difference. If there is a differ­ mission, Sir, when an antinational statement ence of perception. I stand by that percep­ is made, it is not a question of five days, it is tion and we stand by that perception.... ( perhaps a question of five minutes. If I may Interruptions) .. ~. And there cannot be a solu­ continue, the ex-Governorof Punjab was not tion of Punjab unless confidence is built and allowed to apprehend those people who by confidence, I see to every section of the called for Khalistan. The Prime Minister society and everyone who is in Punjab ..... vacillated. The ex-Governor sent message (/nterruptions) ..... Sir, regarding hostels etc., after message. He did not get a response the Governor has been instructed to take from the Prime Minister. The ex-Governor fullest precaution and provide security. There even spoke to the prime Minister on the is no comprom'ise on that. A direction has phone. The Prime, Minister promised to tele­ been given and there has not been a single phone him back and then he did not call him minute of delay also. At the ~ame time, I think, back. And the result was that the person, ... (Interruptions) .... 125 Motion of Confidence AGRAHAY ANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) in Council of MinisltJrs 126

. SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: (Amethi): Just a No. It was about hostels ... ( Interruptions). tin}' clarification. MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: This is not proper. When the Prime Minister I do not want to be interrupted after every is reply!ng, you must hear him with rapt sentence ... ( Interruptions) attention. Yes, Mr. Prime Minister.

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please take your ( Interruptions) seats. MR. SPEAKER: You must obey your ( Interruptions) leader. Please take your seat.

[ Trans/ation] ( Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: When the hen.Prime 18.00 hrs. Minister is speaking ..... ( Interruptions). SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: [English] I think it is an achievement of the democratic process today that our elected members of MR. SPEAKER: Please be sealed. Punjab, the Mann Group, have come and joined Parliament. They have taken oath [ Trans/ation] and they will be participating in the debates. I welcome their decision. Please take your seat. We have also said that no innocent life ( Interruptions) should be lost. But there is no compromise with regard to land, our territory. At the same [English] time, if there is injustice, that should be removed. VVe have decided that in regard to MR. SPEAKER: Are you yielding? the enactment under which the right to life can be suspended, the constitution 59th SHAI VISHWANATH PRA TAP SINGH: .Amendment Act, we wiil come before this Yes. House and seek to repeal it because we cannot have a statute in this country where MR. SP~AKER: Yes, Mr. RajivGandhi. the right to life can be suspended. There is only one place where the right to life can be ( Interruptions) suspended and that is tne butchery and no other place ! But we have it on the Statute MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. Book and we have made this commitment to I am for orderly debate. The Prime Minister repeal it. has yielded. Now, I 'am calling Mr. Rajiv Gandhi. You can put your question. We have also committed that we would take action against the atrocities that had ( Interruptions). been committed in the riots of 1984. But ours is a straight and fair path and a firm path. SHRI RAJ IV GANDH I: I understood that the han. Prime Minister has said that there On Jammu and Kashmir, I want to say was no delay in responding to the requests that there the issues are such where we do and telegrams of the ex-Governor of Punjab. spend some extra time. Is it correct?

It is of maximum importance that these > , SHRIVISHWANATHPRATAPSINGH: issues are addressed to. On that we are very 127 Motion of Confidence DECEMBER 21, 1989 in Council of Ministers 128

[She Vishwanath Pratap Singh] keep, the federal structure intact and bring, . power to the people below. Same way, we. clear. Again, anything that is against the cannot have political democracy without country is not going to be tolerated. But atthe economic democracy. Ithink, ifthere is going same time, the problem of the youth there to be economic centralisation, we cannot the problems of development not reaching think 'of political decentralisation because the village level, etc. have to be addressed both are incongr~ous. And in the process of to. And I look forward to the participation of economic decentralisation, the concept of youth in this whole process. The people of invoiving the labour in participation 'of man­ Jammu and Kashmir had fought for the free­ agement as an ethos-not a union demand­ dom of this country_ There is no reason why has to permeate the country's labour rela­ they should feel distant or hurt in any way. tions.

At this juncture, it will be the fundamen­ So, that is the process of industrial tal effort of the Government to bring the issue democratisation and decentralised produc­ of equity as the focal point of national debate tion in which the scientists have to playa and attention. So is economic equity an major role. It is here that the invitation to issue, which we have to address ourselves scientists to the new technologies is there to directly. I think this has gone out of focus where there can be decentralisation of eco­ of national debate. Development alone has nomic production, it is these centralised been in focus. But I think, along with devel­ technologies that lead to social and eco­ opment the issue of equity has to be brought nomic imbalances. Our modern technology into focus. It cannot be put under the carpet. can oecentralise it. It will lead to the social It will be the effort of the present Government and econom ic justice that we are thinking of. to bring into focus. For this there is need for And my invitation to the scientists is on this democratisation-political, economic and ground and they will be given the fullest role social. for self-reliance and for serving the people of India. In the process of political democratisa­ tion, the chasm that has developed between A point was made about reservations. the people and th.e bureaucracy, between We are bringing in a Bill for extsilding the the masses and the state, government has reservations for the Scheduled Castes and to be bridged. How to bridge this chasm and Scheduled Tribes for ten years more. I have how to reduce this contradiction,? For this no apologies for it. I firmly stand by it and if thinkers like Jaya Prakashji, Vinobaji, the Members on the benches opposite have Gandhiji and Lohiaji had very concretely laid an}t reservation about it, they can express down the parameters and to in'(olve the it ... people not only to give them something from the treasury-they are not to be mere recipi­ SHRI C.K. JAFFER SHARIEF (Bang a­ ents- but make them participants in shap­ lore North): Why are you posing this ques­ ing and fashioning the destiny of this coun­ tion? (Interruptions) try. Not by treasury but sharing of power that will be our attempt. For quite a long time, we SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: said, we will remove poverty but poverty think on this issue also, we have to think very remains. LAt the poor have a share in man- deeply. If we see the socio-economic struc­ , aging themselves and they WIll either re­ ture, it is an exploitive structure. Those who move, poverty or will be content with their produce the wealth of the country-the position. But let them have a share in man­ farmer, the labourer, the youth, the artisan, aging the affairs.' That is why, we will be a the weaver-do not get the full benefits of bringing decentralisation to the village level, their labour. (Interruptions) not the decentralisation that affects the fed­ eral structurs but decentralisation that will I am co",ing to it. (Interruptions) 129 Motion of Confidence AGRAHAYANA 30, 1911 (SAKA) in Council of Ministers 130

In this system when a member of the SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe takes It is a reflection of the whole social order. the plough and works for fourteen hours or Even that person who shapes the idol for the sixteen hours a day, it is a reality. I think temple, after the idol is installed" is not Kalpanathji, it is a reality of your village also. allowed to go in. In the same way, Dr. (Interruptions) This is the role reserved for Ambedkar may have framed this Constitu­ him. There is a reservation in the system, tion; but he does not have a place in the economic and social reservation for certain Central Hall. It is not the Government's juris­ sections. They have no other right but the dication.. Sir, it is your jurisdiction, and I take right to work. They have no other right. Even this occasion to appeal to you to have his that they are deprived of. (Interruptions) portrait installed in the Central Hall. (Inter­ ruptions) Let me complete my idea. It is very difficult: this interruption sentence after MR. SPEAKER: I fully agree with you, sentence that is going on. (Interruptions) Let Mr. Prime Minister. (Interruptions) me complete the concept. SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: Now, in the prese1t system that we Again, as has been said by several Mem­ have in the socio-economic structu(e. the bers-and Advani Ji specially has critidsed child of the Scheduled Caste or Scheduled it. and every Member reflected it. We all Tribe landless labourer cannot attend the share that view. There is the question of school. After some time, he has to be brought restoration ot democratic institutions, and to help the family, for livelihood. This is the we commit ourselves. on the floor of the system which condemns him to it, and then House, to the restoration of the dignity of the this very system asks him to complete and House, of the judiciary, of the Complrollel be equal to others. Unless this inequitous and Auditor General and the various institu· system is changed-and it has to be tions of democracy, and the Planning Com· changed-there is need for support to the mission. We are coming up with a LokpalBil weaker sections, to the people of Scheduled for probity in public life, and the Bill for thE Castes and Scheduled Tribes, and the back­ right to information. People should have thE ward classes. And I make myself very clear, right to know. Political battles are not fough and I stand by it. (Interruptions) It was this; in any battle-field: but they are fought in thE and here I am coming to Scheduled Castes minds of the people. That is where the politi and Scheduled Tribes. (Interruptions) cal battl~s are fought. And in this, the medii are very important. People have to have i AN HON. MEMBER: What about reser­ right to know every aspect of a political iSSUE vation in Services? We comr"it ourselves to properly and dul' inform the people, and they have a right fc SHRI VISHWANATH PRATAP SINGH: it. Yes, for reservation. You are talking much about it. We have seen that under the cover ( official secrecy, many a nati9nal interest ha It was Dr. Ambedkar who was the giver been jeopardised. We wilt ensure transpar at this Constitution, who framed this Consti­ ency, safe:guarding the security of the cour tution in this very building: and he does not try as also where our foreign relations rna have a place here. That is your commitment be concerned, ensure that there is transpa to reservation. It is true: it is. (Interruptions) ency in the Government's functioning; an the more the transparency, 'think the mor democratic it is, and lesser the chances (:;. MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. the Gov.ernment going astray. I have not permitted you. Please take your seats. While the economic issue might 131 Message from R. S. DECEMBER 21, 1989 Const. (62nd Amdt.) Bill 132

[Sh. Vishwanath Pratap Singh] SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report the following message received from have come into focus today, but I must put it the Secretary-General of Rajya Sabha:- on record that it as much a burning issue as aoy other. And our economic independence, "In accordance with the provisions of we have to protect today, and for this sake if rule 111 of the Rules of procedure and we have to give a call to the country, we conduct of Business in the Rajya should have the guts to tell the people as to Sabha, I am directed to enclose a copy what the situation is. We will not dccept any of the Constitution (Sixty-second economic bondage but will protect the eco­ Amendr.lent) Bill, 1989, which has been nomic independence of the country. But we passed by the Rajya Sabha, in accor­ are in a situation, may I say, where there is dance with the provisions of article 368 need for urgent action, not only urgent action of the Constitution of India, at its sitting but collective action. held on the 21 st Decerrlber, 1989."

With these words, I again tharlk all the Members of the House and the Parties, who have lent support and also those who have not and reiterate our commitment that we will CONSTITUTION (SIXTY-SECOND face the challenges collectively. AMENDMENT) BILL AS PASSED BY RAJYA SABHA MR. SPEAKER: Now I shall put the motion moved by the Prime Minister to the [English] vote of the House. The question is: SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir I lay on "That this House expresses its confi­ the Table the Constitution (Sixty-second dence in the Council of Ministers." Amendment) Bill, 1989, as passed by Rajya Sabha. The motion was adopted.

18.17 hrs. MR. SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet tomorrow at 11 A.M. MESSAGE FROM RAJY A SABHA 18.18 hrs. [English] The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven MR. SPEAKER: Now the Secretary­ of the Clock on Friday, December 22, General. 1989 Pausa 1, 1911 (Saka)

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