First Session, 42nd Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tursday, March 4, 2021 Afernoon Sitting Issue No. 21

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

First Session, 42nd Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries...... Hon. Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Afairs...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs ...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Minister of State for Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Leader of the Tird Party ...... Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel...... Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees...... Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst...... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Abbotsford-Mission...... Pam Alexis Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston Abbotsford South...... Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Penticton Abbotsford West...... Michael de Jong, QC Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...... North Island Boundary-Similkameen...... Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP)...... –False Creek Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Hon. Anne Kang Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Burnaby-Edmonds...... Hon. Raj Chouhan Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ...... Abbotsford South Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby North ...... Begg, Garry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Guildford Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Peace River South Cariboo North...... Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party)...... Prince George–Valemount Chilliwack ...... Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Chilliwack-Kent ...... Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) ...... Surrey South Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–West End Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Coquitlam-Maillardville ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Courtenay-Comox...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview Delta North...... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Delta South ...... Conroy, Hon. Katrine (BC NDP)...... Kootenay West Esquimalt-Metchosin ...... Hon. Mitzi Dean Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack Fraser-Nicola ...... Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ...... Stikine Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Peace River North Kamloops–South Tompson...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Abbotsford West Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Norm Letnick Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Kelowna-Mission ...... Renee Merrifeld D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Kelowna West ...... Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kootenay East...... Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Kootenay West...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Langford–Juan de Fuca ...... Hon. John Horgan Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)...... Langley East Langley ...... Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Langley East...... Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Maple Ridge–Mission...... Bob D’Eith Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Hon. Lisa Beare Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Mid Island–Pacifc Rim...... Hon. Josie Osborne Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Nanaimo...... Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Steveston Nechako Lakes...... Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party)...... Surrey–White Rock Nelson-Creston ...... Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview New Westminster...... Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca North Coast ...... Kahlon, Hon. Ravi (BC NDP) ...... Delta North North Island...... Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Bowinn Ma Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party)...... West Vancouver–Capilano North Vancouver–Seymour...... Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Langara Parksville-Qualicum...... Adam Walker Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...... Courtenay-Comox Peace River North ...... Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River South ...... Lore, Grace (BC NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Penticton ...... Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Port Coquitlam...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Hon. Nicholas Simons Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ...... Langley Prince George–Mackenzie...... Merrifeld, Renee (BC Liberal Party)...... Kelowna-Mission Prince George–Valemount ...... Shirley Bond Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–North Tompson Richmond North Centre...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Richmond-Queensborough...... Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party)...... Cariboo North Richmond South Centre ...... Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond-Steveston ...... Osborne, Hon. Josie (BC NDP)...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Saanich North and the Islands ...... Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Saanich South ...... Hon. Lana Popham Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ...... Delta South Shuswap...... Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)...... Saanich South Skeena...... Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Stikine...... Hon. Nathan Cullen Rankin, Hon. Murray, QC (BC NDP) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey–Green Timbers...... Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)...... Skeena Surrey-Guildford...... Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby North Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Panorama ...... Russell, Roly (BC NDP)...... Boundary-Similkameen Surrey South ...... Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Whalley ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) ...... Vernon-Monashee Surrey–White Rock ...... Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. George Heyman Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party)...... Kootenay East Vancouver–False Creek...... Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. George Chow Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Vancouver-Hastings ...... Singh, Aman (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Queensborough Vancouver-Kensington...... Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Kingsway...... Hon. Adrian Dix Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Vancouver-Langara...... Michael Lee Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Hon. Melanie Mark Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver–Point Grey ...... Hon. David Eby, QC Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Quilchena...... , QC Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Walker, Adam (BC NDP)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vernon-Monashee ...... Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... New Westminster Victoria–Swan Lake...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano...... Yao, Henry (BC NDP) ...... Richmond South Centre West Vancouver–Sea to Sky......

Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS

Tursday, March 4, 2021 Afernoon Sitting Page

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills ...... 497 Bill 9 — Local Elections Statutes Amendment Act, 2021 (continued) M. Starchuk B. Stewart M. Dykeman D. Coulter M. Elmore S. Furstenau J. Brar Hon. J. Osborne Bill 4 — Firearm Violence Prevention Act Hon. M. Farnworth M. Morris J. Sims E. Ross S. Chant B. Stewart M. Elmore Hon. N. Cullen T. Halford Hon. M. Dean D. Coulter P. Alexis

497

THURSDAY, MARCH 4, 2021 paigns when ofce space can be made available at a difer- ent price. Te House met at 1:32 p.m. When we talk about election advertising, the amend- ments talk about a pre-campaign period, which will begin [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] 60 days before the frst day of the campaign period and close the day before. Te pre-campaign periods make it Orders of the Day very clear as to how we’re going to capture those expenses that are paid. Tis becomes increasingly important in the Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading digital world of advertising. With the various social media debate on Bill 9. platforms, it’s important to know who is paying for that advertising and how much they paid. [N. Letnick in the chair.] Tis will ensure clarity as to the activities that are cap- tured, as election advertising in local elections takes place. Second Reading of Bills It ensures consistency with LECFA and the Election Act, respecting the types of activities that are captured as elec- BILL 9 — LOCAL ELECTIONS STATUTES tion advertising. It’s important to note that this recom- AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 mendation was made by Elections B.C. in their report of (continued) the 2018 general local elections. When we come to the third-party advertising, what it M. Starchuk: With regards to Bill 9, the amendments does is limit the potential infuence of large donors on to the Local Elections Campaign Financing Act, I’d like election discourse. It ensures that the sponsorship contri- to just close with a little summary of where we lef of, butions are treated in the same way as campaign contribu- reminding those that are joining us now that I did have a tions in LECFA. It also ensures consistency with the pro- couple of elections as a municipal person. So I’m under- vincial Election Act, which sets sponsorship contributions standing full well the implications of what’s coming for- at $1,200. ward. Ten, fnally, when we talk about investigative powers, Te proposed amendments, when it comes down to the proposed authorities would provide Elections B.C. campaign fnances, are a big part of what is inside of here with a greater ability to conduct investigations into pos- in Bill 9. One of the things that becomes incredibly sible contraventions of LECFA and also ensure that invest- important is the registration framework for those parties igative authorities in LECFA are consistent with those set that are out there. It makes it more accountable for Elec- out in the Election Act. tions B.C. to make sure that those relationships continue Along with that, with regards to monetary penalties, the on with those organizations. penalty amounts would be tied to the contravention where [1:35 p.m.] it makes sense to do so, and where a contribution exceeds With regards to the fnancial reporting, we take a look a limit, up to double the amount of the contribution or tied at what’s in there for the fnancial disclosure of reporting to monetary penalty amounts. requirements to ensure the transparency of all types of EO Additional monetary penalties are intended to increase fnancial activities in non-election years and to maintain compliance with LECFA. Where non-compliance occurs, the integrity of the campaign fnancing framework of the monetary penalties are administratively easier punish- LECFA by providing greater transparency. Tis is import- ment to impose than pursuing an ofence through the ant because this is in non-election years, as the funding is Ministry of Attorney General and the court system. going through, and the actual ability to be open and trans- At this point, I would like to thank the minister and her parent and accountable to those campaign funds that are staf for a comprehensive bill. From what we’ve heard so coming in, in the of years. far today, it seems that all parties are somewhat in agree- As a person who sat in a municipal seat, I can tell you ment that removing large corporate or other organization- that there were many times when people were wondering al donations is overdue and now can align with the B.C. where the donations were coming and when they were spending. coming. Tis legislation gets rid of that anomaly that’s I stand here in support of Bill 9, and I thank staf and there. We’ve heard of allegations of donations when they the minister for what they’ve done. come to certain votes. Tis legislation will remove that part [1:40 p.m.] of it. When we talk about the contributions that come in, B. Stewart: I rise this afernoon to speak on Bill 9. I we’re talking about moneys that come in, whether they know that it’s really important that British Columbians have value, non-monetary properties or services that are know that there is clarity and transparency when it comes provided without compensation. Tese are important to elections of any sort. Of course, this is moving ahead because there’s plenty of time during the election cam- on work that was done previously to bring into efect some 498 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 alignment between local elections, as well as the Election that it’s a challenge. And it becomes a more difcult chal- Act — I believe it was Bill 28 — brought in, in November lenge as buildings become higher density in more urban of 2017, that makes some very signifcant restrictions. and built-up areas. I do think that it puts some people in I think that one of the things that we’re looking for is…. certain ridings or certain communities at a signifcant dis- We’re supportive of those type of actions — to make cer- advantage by not being able to speak to all of the people tain that there is that certainty, as close as we can get to that are in those ridings. transparency, and that there is no hanky-panky, as some It is important, because it can’t be just done by mail people would say, going on in terms of indirect benefts drops and speaking to the strata councils and things like that are being received by candidates or parties. that. Tere is a need to make certain that access, in any way One of the things about the electoral process is that it’s it can be created, would be a beneft to the election process. something that we don’t see as being written in stone. Te [1:45 p.m.] fact is that the legislation needs to be dynamic, as we’ve I do think that…. I spoke briefy about digital advert- seen with some of the things that have happened in other ising. As we saw with the use of Cambridge Analytica in jurisdictions where new technology has been used and in another election in another place, it was signifcantly infu- place and put into infuencing election outcomes. I think ential or considered to be infuential in making an out- that that’s why this is a dynamic and constantly evolving come that has signifcantly changed the world — the way kind of process. that Europe is operating today. I think that the situation is In this particular case, Bill 9 amends the Local Elections that we need to make certain that, with those tools, there’s Campaign Financing Act, the Local Government Act, the transparency around those types of uses and that Elections School Act and the Vancouver Charter. I know that it’s not B.C. has the ability to make certain that that type of infu- yet come to local elections in my area or riding, but I know encing, technology or whatever, is either limited or that it’s that it’s certainly much diferent in urban areas, probably open and available to all the participants. more so in the Lower Mainland than in other parts of the I think about the diference in the politics of being a province. But I think it is important that there is compli- local government ofcial, whether it’s a school board…. ance with regulations and rules. Tis is one of the reasons You volunteer yourself to the task of standing up and try- why I and the rest of our caucus will be supporting this ing to do what’s right, whether it’s the neighbourhoods in legislation in principle. your community or your children that are in schools. I Obviously, we want to seek clarity in terms of some of think that what you really are looking for is that you want the regulations and how that’s going to be given the cred- to make certain that there is the opportunity — that you ibility and certainty that these regulations are going to be can get a fair chance at showing that you have the ability. meaningful to everybody that’s running — all parties and Unfortunately, that’s a changing set of boundaries, and it all eforts to try to make certain that it’s an even playing does make it more difcult. But I think it is important that feld for everybody that’s contesting a particular spot. there’s more encouragement. You know, the other thing is that there’s going to be an I don’t see it in this bill, but I hope that we don’t get to extension to the pre-campaign period from 29 to 89 days. the point of having to pay for votes in terms of civic and I do think that that is important, as we’ve seen with fxed other elections, etc. I think it is meant to be grassroots. election dates. Tat is something that is important — that Tat’s something that speaks to the people and speaks to people do have the opportunity to not necessarily be infu- the institutions that are being governed by these people enced, whether it’s social media or paid advertising both that are elected through this process. on TV or in print, etc., and to make certain that those I look forward to the fact that this will be coming to investments made by outside infuencers are taken into committee stage in the coming days and the fact that this is account in terms of what they’re trying to do and that there continuing positive work in terms of election transparency are some controls and registrations. and freedoms. Tank you very much for that, Mr. Speaker. I think that these are some of the tools that Elections B.C. is going to need to be able to deliver this, to make cer- M. Dykeman: Tank you, Mr. Speaker, for the oppor- tain that people that are candidates have a fair chance and tunity to rise and speak in support of this bill. that it’s an equally fair chance for them to be able to seek I would like to start of by acknowledging that I’m join- leadership or be able to be an elected ofcial in their com- ing you today from the traditional, ancestral and unceded munities. territories of the Matsqui, Kwantlen, Katzie and Semiah- I struggle with one of the comments that I see in the act moo First Nations. about access to strata properties and other properties for I would like to say that this legislation today will canvassing. I haven’t quite fgured that out myself in terms strengthen transparency and modernize local election fn- of how I can get through into the buildings and be able to ancing, and it’s such a privilege to be able to speak in door-knock in apartments. It’s not something that I…. I favour of this. I think that this is so vitally important. Dur- know a lot of people do question. ing B.C.’s local elections, which are held every four years, I have done my share of door-knocking, and I know there are 1,660 elected positions voted on in 250 local gov- Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 499 ernment bodies in communities ranging in size from less munities and in campaigning. I hope that we see that out than 200 people to more than 600,000. of this legislative change. I frst ran in 2011 in local government. I remember What are the changes that are being made? Well, the one of the things that stood out to me was the amount landmark 2017 legislation that took big money out of of money that was being put into local elections. When I politics was applied to the 2018 general local elections. frst ran, I had no intent at all to put my name forward Coming out of that, the ministry of municipal afairs and for ofce. I hadn’t really paid attention too much to local staf worked with partners, including Elections B.C., elections prior to that. Walking down the street, I would UBCM and the B.C. school trustees and others that were look at the signs and think: “My goodness. Tere are signs consulted, to improve the accountability and transparency everywhere. Tere’s so much money being spent here.” of campaign fnancing. Te amendments refect that work. Really, afer those elections, I would start to sort of look I think that that really shows what happens when a wide through the disclosures — I didn’t even know those were group of people come together with a commitment to public — and talk to other people who were monitoring make something more transparent and improve that. local elections themselves or wanted to put their names How are they going to make these elections more forward. transparent and fair? Well, the legislation — which, once I remember sitting there talking to a couple of parents again, is building of the landmark legislation intro- in my neighbourhood. I ran…. Like so many other people, duced in the fall of 2017 — will ensure donations to something afected my personal life. Tey were going to elector organizations are clearly identifed as political close my children’s school, so I thought I’d run. I remem- contributions no matter when they are made, which is ber talking to four or fve other parents. Tey said: “Well, another fantastic improvement in the steps towards there’s no way that I would run for ofce. It’s too expensive. transparency. It’s coupled with requiring that organiz- I can’t compete with other people putting their names for- ations provide fnancial reports on an annual basis — ward.” I remember thinking there’s a great deal of concern I think that that’s a big step forward — so that people about that. It’s rather unfair. of British Columbia know where their money’s coming [1:50 p.m.] from and how it’s being used, which I think is another Looking at this legislation, I’m so pleased to be part fantastic step towards transparency. of a government that’s strengthening local election cam- Something that…. You would hear, just in anecdotal paign fnancing rules to increase accountability and trans- conversations, a lack of trust within people in the com- parency. It’s another example of ensuring that we’re putting munity — a perception that things are not fair. I’m grateful people at the centre of local politics. Tese changes will to see those amendments. Tat’s another example of the modernize and strengthen tools available, which will be government believing the people should be at the heart of available to investigate and enforce campaign fnancing. politics and not money. I’m grateful to see that there seems I think that that’s another important action in public to be wide support for these amendments and really, really confdence. I’m always dismayed when you hear public happy to see everyone stepping forward to support those perception that ofce is for the elite or the independently changes. wealthy, a narrative which really goes back as far as I Te changes follow the legislation and refect feedback can recall. Tese improvements will make local elections and input from partners, as I mentioned. It’s a great thing more fair and transparent for everyone, which really to see such a widely consulted amendment, moving translates into a government that works better for the towards accountability and transparency. Te changes people of B.C. announced will also provide just a much more robust I think that another observation that I think that this framework to investigate, which is an important compon- legislation will assist with is that we have become — it’s ent in keeping people accountable. been exacerbated during COVID — a society that’s more [1:55 p.m.] disengaged, even though we have access to more inform- Te changes are going to be coming into place, hope- ation daily. We sit on social media. We get information fully with a smooth transition, to apply to the 2022 general which is given to us in an algorithm. What I hope with local elections. It’s great to see such a sort of immediate these changes and these restrictions in campaign fnancing timeline, also allowing an opportunity for people to have and transparency is that we’ll have a little bit of a return enough time to transition. Te only exception to the rule is to direct-connection campaigning, where we’re getting out limiting sponsorship contributions, which come into force into the community and people are getting on doorsteps right away, and it will only apply to sponsorship contribu- more, once it’s safe to do so, and exchanging information tions made to support the 2022 general local elections. in places where people gather. In the meantime, though, what’s fantastic is that the by- It has become, unfortunately, a race of who can write elections, or assent votes, held between now and the fall the best algorithm on social media, which I don’t think is of 2022, will be following the current rules and allowing a where we get our best information. I think that this might reduction of confusion. So the changes also will allow for move us a little bit closer to connecting more within com- 500 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 transparency in a way that allows people to easily imple- donations. Tat, again, puts people at the centre of politics. ment it and hopefully, in turn, build public confdence. So I really like these rules. I hope that these changes will allow people who look at [2:00 p.m.] something within their community that they’re concerned I come from Chilliwack. It was not uncommon for about, like I did back in 2011, and be more willing to people to bankroll their own campaigns — $5,000, put their name forward. Be more willing to participate in $10,000, $15,000. When you don’t have limits, and you can the democratic process. Anytime we can get more people do things like that, you can’t…. It makes it really hard to involved and more people feeling like they are part of that compete with that kind of money. I think it does a disser- process, the more robust and the more strong our demo- vice to our government, to politics and democracy, if it’s a cracy becomes. pay-to-play system such as that. It’s something that I think is also a great message for I also really like the amendments around third-party youth coming up. We hear over time that youth don’t want advertising. I come from Chilliwack, and we have had to become involved in politics because they don’t feel as third-party advertisers standing on freeway overpasses or though it’s fair. Tey don’t feel as though it’s transparent, or standing on corners. Tey have signage made; they’re they don’t feel as though they have an avenue in or there handing out materials. Very ofen they don’t register, and are fnancial barriers. that is quite disappointing. I like that it’s extending the I’m very fortunate to be able to sit in this chair, but timeline so that you have to declare that you’re a third- I’m grateful to see that our government has committed to party advertiser much further away from the election. It moving forward and making changes that will allow lots of creates a longer election period, I guess you could call it. people to have the opportunity to participate in a transpar- You know, we just had a school board by-election in ent and fair democracy in this wonderful province. Chilliwack, and it got pretty rough. Tere was an illegal Tank you for the opportunity to speak on this legisla- billboard that went up — pretty misogynistic. It really, tion. I will take my seat now. really tore our community in two, just this one bill- board. I also like the amendments around the investigat- D. Coulter: I’d frst like to recognize that I’m on the ter- ive powers that we’re going to give Elections B.C. now. It ritory of the Lək̓ ʷəŋin̓ əŋ-speaking people, Songhees and will be much harder to do those kinds of shenanigans if Esquimalt First Nations. you can be investigated and you can be penalized under I’m really happy that I can be here again today with the Election Act. you, Mr. Speaker. You’ll be happy to hear I don’t have I didn’t want to speak very long, but I really did want phone numbers today. I don’t have phone numbers to speak to this bill, because it is close to my heart. I today, so I’m sure the member for Peace River South is think amendments like this, and moving in this direc- disappointed as well. tion, are what we need to do in our province, like I said, I wanted to speak to this bill because it is close to my to put the people back in politics. I don’t have a phone heart. I was a locally elected ofcial. I was a school trustee. number for you today, but I do have a catchphrase. I’d I ran in many local elections. Tis makes the system a lot just like to leave it at that. more fair. It actually injects a bit more democracy in the system, which is great. M. Elmore: I’m very pleased to be joining you from You know, the B.C. NDP in 2017…. We put the people the traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and back at the centre of politics by getting rid of the wild Tsleil-Waututh Nations. west rules in provincial politics. Ten we did the same in I’m pleased to rise and speak in support of second read- local elections as well. Te amendments in this legisla- ing for Bill 9, the Local Elections Statutes Amendment tion are just building on that. I know we’re calling them Act. Te importance and signifcance of Bill 9, generally, “elector organizations,” and that’s what they’re currently in terms of the rationale, is that the intent is for the gov- called in the legislation. For all intents and purposes, ernment to strengthen local election campaign fnancing they’re political parties. So I’m happy to see that they’re rules, for the purpose of increasing accountability and going to be treated just like a provincial political party transparency for elections and to ensure that people are at in that they have to do fnancial statements every year. the centre of local politics. Tey have to register and do annual fnancial disclosure Tese changes will modernize and strengthen the tools statements, of course. available to investigate and enforce campaign fnancing I think that just makes sense on any level — and also rules. I think that certainly, this is key, and such an import- requiring them to fundraise the exact same way as political ant foundation of our democracy at all levels, municipal, parties fundraise in between elections. We can no longer provincial and federal: that as much as possible, we have use union or corporate donations to keep our lights on a level playing feld and that we remove big money from anymore at our political parties. We must get individual really having an undue impact and infuence on our elec- tions and impacting and really distorting our democracy. Key to, and central to, Bill 9 is the belief that people Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 501 should be at the heart of politics, not money — people and that it’s only during the period of elections where these having the opportunity to bring forward ideas to be measures are brought in. engaged and to be elected to represent the concerns of I do want to make a point as well. I know that the constituents. Tat should be the key to fnding a focus. It majority of British Columbia does not have elector organ- shouldn’t be how much money you can raise or how many izations. It’s mainly individuals who run. But in terms of big donors can bankroll your campaign that will be the elector organizations, as they’re defned in local elections, deciding factors in terms of electability. it’s an organization that endorses candidates in a local elec- Now, the changes that we’re seeing in Bill 9. Tese build tion. Elector organizations are ofen referred to as civic on the framework of our government’s landmark 2017 political parties. And specifc to elector organizations, the legislation, to put an end to big money in politics and regulation of election advertising for an additional 60 days put the people back at the centre of government decision- will be added to the pre-campaign period, where existing making. Tat was a signifcant initiative that our govern- election advertising rules apply. Tere will also be spon- ment brought forward to establish at the provincial level, sorship limits consistent with campaign contribution lim- and these changes follow. its to reduce the potential infuence of large donors on the [2:05 p.m.] election. Concretely, Elections B.C. will have more tools to Te changes we’re discussing today in Bill 9 follow that investigate and enforce contraventions under the act. So legislation in 2017 and also refect that it’s informed by those are some key areas. feedback and input from our partners, such as Elections Now, what will that mean? How will it be administered? B.C. and the Union of B.C. Municipalities, as well as We’re making amendments to the Local Government Act, insight gained from the 2018 elections. I think this is an the School Act and the Vancouver Charter to help and important component as well, the importance of consulta- assist governments to administer these elections. What tion, working with stakeholders, working with partners will that mean? Some examples and some impacts will be and really being informed in terms of best practices and to ensure that candidates have access to residential prop- recommendations moving forward — so key to Bill 9. And erties, such as strata properties, which were previously I think it’s much needed, certainly, in our municipal elec- excluded, and also to be able to canvass voters and distrib- tions to improve accountability and transparency in loc- ute candidate information. Tis is the rationale in terms al elections, especially for elector organizations and those of just having the opportunity for candidates to get infor- who sponsor advertising. mation to eligible voters and to ensure that voters are We’re modernizing the tools available to investigate and informed about the candidates running and issues import- enforce campaign fnancing rules. We know that even if ant to those candidates. there are rules in place, if we don’t have efective means to We also are addressing the disenfranchisement of some investigate, enforce and also administer fnes, if that’s the individuals by removing the requirement that individuals case, there needs to be a deterrent as well, and there need be a resident of their community for at least 30 days in to be repercussions. Tat’s an important component. order to vote — I’ll get into that a little bit later — and Tese changes that we will be deliberating in Bill 9 will removing the requirement for administrative order to trig- make local elections more fair and transparent for every- ger a by-election in all cases where the court declares an one. And in my mind, I certainly don’t think any one of election invalid. my colleagues on either side of the House can argue that [2:10 p.m.] that doesn’t make government work better for people right When will these changes take efect? Tere’s going to be across British Columbia. a transition period. To ensure it’s a smooth transition to With respect to Bill 9, I want to talk generally about these new rules, the plan and intention is for these rules some of the key points and get into areas I think are signi- to apply to the 2022 general local elections coming up. fcant and also important. Te key point is that the changes Tey’ll be here before we know it, next year in the fall. It that we’re announcing today build on historic fnance will be upon us before we know it. Tat will allow us some reforms previously. It’s going to result in amendments to lead time to get these changes out, to inform individual the Local Elections Campaign Financing Act. candidates and also elector organizations and third-party Tese include, and my colleague previously referenced advertisers. It will allow them the opportunity to under- this, increasing transparency and accountability for elector stand the rules and the new landscape and also to commu- organizations by requiring them to register with Elections nicate those changes. B.C., complete annual fnancial reports during non-elec- Te one exception is the rules limiting sponsorship con- tion years to ensure that there’s accountability right across tributions. Tat will come into force right away, and that the board, not only in an election period, and also to pro- will only apply to sponsorship contributions made to sup- hibit them from accepting contributions from unions, cor- port the 2022 general local election. Tat’s to take steps porations or individuals to pay for operational expenses in case there are any folks with deep pockets who want in the non-election years so that there’s not a gap created to make immediate contributions before the changes of- cially take place. Tat’s to address that issue. 502 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

We do have a number of by-elections underway In terms of these changes, they didn’t come out of thin between now and the next municipal election for the 2022 air. I had referenced earlier that there were consultations general local election. In the meantime, any by-election that were undertaken and recommendations that came between now and fall 2022 will follow the current rules forward from…. Tat included Elections B.C., the Union under the Local Elections Campaign Financing Act. Tat’s of B.C. Municipalities, which represent…. We have a total to ensure some continuity. We have a number of by-elec- of 189 local governments and the Islands Trust, so cer- tions underway that we’ll expect to be…. Tey’ll be under tainly a large number of areas that conduct elections. the current rules. In addition, First Nations that utilize the Local Elections Now, one of the issues…. You know, the question Campaign Financing Act were consulted and the B.C. answered…. What’s the process in terms of ensuring that School Trustees Association, which represents our boards there is accountability and transparency for local elec- of education throughout British Columbia. Local elections tions? One of the measures is to ensure that organizations — most include, as well, the election of school trustees. provide fnancial reports on an annual basis so that British Now, changes will come into force across the province Columbians know where the money is coming from, for the 2022 general elections. By-elections underway now where it’s being used and, certainly, that that is available to will be under the current rules. the public on an annual basis. So that’s one of the measures Te date for the restrictions, in terms of the sponsorship that will be brought in. contribution limits, will be made retroactively, efective When we look at what some of the changes are, as well, from March 4, 2021. Tis is, I mention, to ban sponsorship in terms of…. What will change in terms of how local elec- contributions being made between the time the legislation tions are mandated, and what’s the general practice for loc- is introduced and royal assent. al elections? Some of the changes will be to establish a pre- Now, we know that there are, here in the Legislature, campaign period that increases the length of time election 87 constituencies and 87 MLAs elected. During B.C.’s local advertising is regulated. Before the act, it was 29 days — elections, held every four years, the number is 1,660 elec- generally one month. Now a change to 89 days, so basically ted positions voted on in 250 local government bodies, three months. So that’ll be three months before the elec- in communities ranging in size from less than 200 people tion that that will be the pre-election period and that the to more than 600,000 people. We have electoral organiza- regulation of advertising will be applied to that period. tions, not in the majority, that endorse candidates in local Another very signifcant piece is that sponsorship con- elections. Tey’re referred to as civic political parties. But tributions will match the provincial campaign contribu- in most communities and areas, it’s mainly folks running tion limits set in 2017. I know many members in the independently or maybe with loose networks. House will be familiar with that amount. It’s $1,200 for an Te changes that are being brought in under Bill 9 are individual contribution. In terms of lining up and integ- positive. We’ll see an improved regulatory framework rating municipal elections, that will also be the level. It’s for elector organizations, in terms of improving the ef- $1,200. So we can apply that across the board. ciency — a centralized registration framework for elect- In addition, changes…. Elector organizations will be or organizations. required to ofcially register with Elections B.C. To ensure You can imagine, with the over 250 areas that elect rep- that Elections B.C. has the tools they…. Tere will be new resentatives, if each had to administer theirs independ- investigative tools to support investigations and additional ently. Te advantage of having it centralized provincially penalties to fne people who do not comply with the new is that there’s a level playing feld across the board. Tere’s campaign fnancing rules. standardization. Across the province, British Columbians Of course, we know that most candidates and elector can be assured that rules that apply in their area — wheth- organizations comply and do their best to comply with the er rural, urban, on the Island, interior or the north — are rules. In the event that infractions have been brought to consistent regulations across the province. So I think that the attention of Elections B.C., they have the opportunity that’s positive. to investigate and also apply penalties as a deterrent. So We are seeing, as well, changes to election advertising, those are additional changes. primarily with the expansion of the pre-election period. Now, elector organizations, also referred to as civic or Te pre-election advertising period expanded from one local political parties, will have to register with Elections month to three months — well, 89 days. Election advert- B.C. and complete annual fnancial reports, similar to pro- ising is now to include paid canvassing activities. Tis vincial political parties. Electoral organizations will be means that people who are paid to go door to door in sup- banned from accepting non-campaign contributions to port of a candidate or elector organization will be subject pay for operational expenses such as ofce supplies and to election advertising rules. Tat’s put under the category staf salaries in non-election years. Tis means that they of having to account for costs for campaigns. will have to fund all campaign expenses through campaign In addition, there will be third-party advertising limits contributions. — a contribution limit for third-party advertisers at [2:15 p.m.] $1,200. Tat levels the playing feld across the province Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 503 and also brings it into line provincially, as well, with our between the Local Election Campaign Financing Act and provincial contribution limits. Tose are some important those established for provincial elections in the Election pieces. Act, so to provide some consolidation, as well, between [2:20 p.m.] those. But of course, needing to be responsive and to rec- We have a new regulatory framework. We have addi- ognize the unique nature of local elections, they’re very tional oversight with respect to election spending and diferent. We have, certainly, a number of similar practices advertising in the pre-campaign period. I mentioned that but certainly very diferent in terms of municipal elections there are also new investigative and enforcement tools that versus provincial elections. Elections B.C. will be…. Tat also has to accompany these Changes are proposed for the School Act to also changes. It will allow the B.C. Chief Electoral Ofcer the improve and modernize the administration of local elec- ability to investigate and enforce violations of the Local tions. So there are a number of changes coming for the Elections Campaign Financing Act. School Act as well. What are some of these components? Tey’ll be able Tere’s more to get into, lots to get into, in terms of the to request records from companies that deal with online details of Bill 9, but I just want to speak in terms of some of advertising to understand who is sponsoring advertising the overarching themes and the areas that are being prior- and how much was spent — ofen that’s an issue — and to itized and addressed in terms of Bill 9. I just want to fnal- identify who the third-party advertisers are and to really ize, sum up and conclude my remarks. track that down and get an accounting of that. So that’s [2:25 p.m.] important. Bill 9, the Local Elections Statutes Amendment Act, is In the case that that information is not forthcoming a positive bill that will strengthen our local election cam- immediately, Elections B.C. has the ability to request a paign fnancing rules, with the goal to continue to ensure court order to seek records from fnancial institutions and that accountability and transparency are paramount for really conduct, if needed, a more in-depth investigation in elections and really with the fundamental goal to ensure terms of the fnancial accountability. that people are at the centre of local politics and to take big Changes are being made to help with the administration money out of politics. of campaign fnancing requirements in local elections. I’m from Vancouver. We have pretty big budget local What are some of these areas? We’ll be familiar with them, elections, in the millions of dollars, here in Vancouver. many of my colleagues here, in terms of provincial elec- So this act, Bill 9, will level the playing feld, bringing in tions. the contribution limits, extending the advertising for the Tese will include extending late fling timelines for pre-election campaign period, improving the regulatory reports, allowing fexibility for Elections B.C. to make framework. I think that these are really key measures that minor corrections to fnancial reports and allowing can- will level the playing feld and, I think, really improve and didates and electoral organizations and giving them the strengthen democracy, which is key and so important. fexibility to modify campaign fnancing arrangements up We know that it’s also a challenge in terms of ensuring until election day. Tese are some of the concrete steps and that we have adequate representation in elected govern- questions, I know, that will be coming and local candidates ment, all levels of government, that refect the population who are preparing now and electoral organizations will be at large. We know that the diversity of our elected ofcials keenly interested in. Tese are quite signifcant. doesn’t represent our communities and demographics. Accompanying that, as well, is the improved framework Particularly, women are underrepresented. Racialized for monetary penalties, which is important to ensure that people are underrepresented. Certainly in Vancouver and there are deterrents, not only to deter those who really through Metro Vancouver, over 50 percent of the popu- violate these infractions, but to really recognize that the lation are racialized or Indigenous people, yet in terms of vast majority of candidates and electoral organizations do elected ofcials at the municipal level, we don’t come any- their best to abide by rules and regulations. It’s important where close to electing folks who are racialized or who are to have the ability to provide that deterrent for those who Indigenous or from other backgrounds, people with disab- may be tempted or otherwise not pay as strict attention to ilities, who are also underrepresented. Tose are systemic the laws, regulations and requirements. issues. Changes accompanying Bill 9 will be a more robust Te measures in Bill 9 don’t necessarily address those framework of monetary penalties that Elections B.C. can explicitly. But in terms of addressing those structural bar- use to enforce compliance with local election campaign riers and levelling the playing feld, I think that that con- fnancing rules. Elections B.C. will be able to issue mon- tributes towards addressing some of the systemic issues etary penalties for 50 or more violations of local election around underrepresentation in our democracy, which are campaign fnancing rules. Tat’s just giving more ability key and which are so fundamental to having a vibrant for Elections B.C. to fex their muscle and to encourage and robust democracy. British Columbians need to see compliance with these changes. themselves and their communities refected in their elec- Tese amendments are meant to bring consistency 504 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 ted leadership, refected in leadership right across our make structural change. Going to UBCM in 2017 and then province and in all areas, particularly at the elected level. back, afer the 2018 elections happened, it felt like a sea We have structural institutionalized barriers to that change in seeing the faces of who was elected locally. Tere access. I’m not going to get into it. Tere’s more to delve were far more women, many more women mayors, for into and to comment on outside of Bill 9. I’ll keep my example, and far more diversity. It was a start. remarks specifc to Bill 9. But in terms of ensuring we We have a long ways to go, and when we look at, have a level playing feld, I think the changes proposed for example, the resignation, just recently from the Ter- in Bill 9 really contribute to ensuring we have more race council, of a councillor who cited bullying — that’s accountability and transparency in our elections and Jessica McCallum-Miller, an Indigenous councillor, who that these changes will move towards modernizing and resigned — we know that there is a lot of work to be strengthening the tools to investigate and enforce cam- done to continue to make elected spaces safe for women, paign fnancing rules. for people of colour, for Indigenous People, because It’s my hope, and it’s my belief as well, that Bill 9 will we’re not quite there yet. We’re still facing these issues, build and strengthen our democracy and also really and this is a very sad story of this councillor resigning, encourage more participation in our local elections and, I citing the systemic racism and bullying that she’s facing. hope, greater representation as well. So there’s much work to be done. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the second Another reform that was brought in because of the reading of Bill 9. confdence and supply agreement in 2017 was reforms to lobbying in B.C. It is now possible to see who is lobbying S. Furstenau: I’m delighted today to speak to Bill 9, the whom in this province and to get a really clear indica- Local Elections Statutes Amendment Act, and the reforms tion of how much time government spends with partic- that it will be bringing to local elections to ensure that ular groups or industries or organizations that are lob- the elections are more transparent, more fair and better bying. Tat was another important part, something that serving of democracy. was in our 2017 platform, which was brought in as part I want to start by really giving a shout-out to Vancou- of the confdence and supply agreement in the previous ver Green councillor Pete Fry. He and the other Vancou- government. ver Greens have been pushing for reforms to local elec- I think we can all agree that there is not ever going to tion fnancing for quite a while and, in fact, passed a be an end to the efort, attention and focus that we have to motion in February of 2020 that was unanimously sup- put on to ensuring that democracy remains strong, that it ported at , calling for annual con- remains focused on serving the people that we represent as tribution limits, mandatory public disclosures, elimin- elected ofcials. We see the risks to democracy everywhere ation of all corporate and special interest donations to right now, and hyper-partisanship. An increasingly non- municipal political parties. transparent approach to governance is something that we [2:30 p.m.] are seeing in jurisdictions across North America and Pete and the Vancouver Greens and, I would expect, around the world. locally elected ofcials across the province are celebrating I think it is incumbent on all of us to be incredibly vigil- the introduction of this bill as a big step towards continu- ant in our roles as elected ofcials, to put the protection, ing to bring reforms to our elections and our democracy in well-being and health of democracy at the centre of our B.C. In the context of that, it is really important to recog- work, because we are the carriers of that in the roles that nize the reforms. Tis is one of many pieces of legislation we play in this building that we’re in. that have come in since 2017. [2:35 p.m.] In the last government, as part of the confdence and Tis act does make some good steps towards that. It supply agreement, strengthening democracy was very establishes a pre-campaign period — increasing the length much the frst part of the entire confdence and supply of time that election advertising is regulated — from 29 agreement, and removing big money from politics was a days to 89 days. So that kind of pre-election period when signifcant and very important step that was taken. It was anything goes has been diminished, and we have the something that the Greens actually did ahead of the 2017 extension of a pre-campaign period of 60 days in which election: banning corporate and union donations to our regulation will exist. I think that is a really important step, party in 2016, before the legislation was brought in to because the amount of money that can go into election make that change apply to every political party in B.C. spending before the regulation period comes in can be sig- nifcant and can have very signifcant impacts in terms of [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] outcomes of an election. Tis bill limits sponsorship contributions to $1,200 to Other initiatives have been brought in. Of course, the match the provincial campaign contribution set in 2017 — frst changes to the local elections act that we saw in 2017 again, an important and necessary step to ensure that large really demonstrated that a shif was possible when you amounts of money aren’t having an oversized infuence Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 505 in outcomes of elections. It clarifes the types of activity First Nations that utilize the Local Elections Campaign that count as election advertising. Tat includes paid cam- Financing Act; and the B.C. School Trustees Association, paigning, mailing election materials. In a time as we are which represents boards of education. Tese improve- in, where information and false information — misinfor- ments will make local elections more fair and more trans- mation, disinformation — have become so prevalent and parent for everyone, which translates into governments so dominant, regulation around what is election advert- that work better for the people of this province. ising is really a crucial step to ensure that we are proact- Amendments to the local government campaign fn- ively addressing this issue. ancing act include increasing accountability for elector It requires elector organizations to register with Elec- organizations by requiring them to (a) register with Elec- tions B.C. Tat’s transparency and accountability. It tions B.C., (b) complete annual fnancial reports during provides Elections B.C. with new investigative tools to non-election years — this is the year when there is no elec- support investigations, and additional penalties to fne tion; they have to provide annual fnancial reports as well people who do not comply. We know that it’s that combin- at that time — and (c), prohibit them from accepting con- ation of rules and enforcement tools that actually creates tributions from unions, corporations and individuals to behavioural changes. pay for operational expenses in non-election years. Tat I’m pleased that this bill has come forward. We will be was the practice in the past, and that is going to change supporting it. We will be very much engaged at commit- once this bill becomes legislation. tee stage to look more deeply into the specifcs, but I think We are also making amendments to the Local Gov- this is a very good step. As I said, it’s a continuation of ernment Act, School Act and Vancouver Charter to help work that has been done since 2017, important work. I local governments in administering these elections. think what we should all be striving for is that transpar- Tese amendments include ensuring candidates have ency, accountability and, in our roles, integrity, honesty — access to residential property such as strata properties to recognizing the work that has come before us and really canvass voters and distribute candidate information and striving to continue to do the best work that we possibly removing the requirement for a ministerial order to trig- can, particularly when it comes to democratic reform and ger a by-election in all cases where the court declares an elections. election invalid. On that note, I thank you for the opportunity to speak When will these changes be implemented? We want to to this bill. I look forward to supporting it at the end of this make sure that there is a smooth transition to these new debate. rules so they will apply to the 2022 general local elections. Te one exception is the rule exempting sponsorship con- J. Brar: I’m delighted to add my voice in support of tributions, which comes into force right away and will only Bill 9, amendments to the local government campaign fn- apply to sponsorship contributions made to support the ancing act. Tis legislation will make local politics more 2022 general local elections. accountable to the people. I think that’s a good thing. Te I would like to conclude by saying that I fully support amendments proposed in this bill will strengthen local this bill, because I believe that people should be at the election campaign fnancing rules to increase accountab- heart of politics, not money. Tis legislation will do exactly ility and transparency for elections, ensuring that people that. It will make local politics more accountable to the are at the centre of local politics, rather than big corpora- people. Tat’s a good thing, and that’s a good change for tions and big developers with deep pockets. Tat’s a huge everyone. change, and it’s a good change for local elections, moving Tanks for the opportunity. forward. Tese changes will strengthen the tools available to Deputy Speaker: Unless there are other speakers keen investigate and enforce campaign fnancing rules. Our to join the debate, I’m going to recognize the Minister of government believes that people should be at the heart of Municipal Afairs to close second reading debate. politics — not money. Te changes to the Local Elections Campaign Financing Act are built on our government’s Hon. J. Osborne: Tank you to all the members who historic 2017 legislation to put an end to big money in have spoken to the bill today. I want to recognize the politics and to put people back at the centre of government comments from the opposition critic for Municipal decision-making. Tis legislation is kind of an extension of Afairs, the member for Penticton, for his thoughtful the same idea. commentary and add that I, too, look forward to work- [2:40 p.m.] ing with him in the months and years to come and value Te legislation also responds to analysis and consulta- the local government experience that he brings to this tion following the 2018 local government general elec- House, as I do that of all the members who have previ- tions. Key stakeholders were also consulted, such as Elec- ous local government experience. tions B.C.; the Union of B.C. Municipalities, which repre- I also want to thank members for thoughtful and artic- sents B.C.’s 189 local governments and the Islands Trust; ulate comments, particularly some of the addition to the 506 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 history of LECFA, the Local Election Campaign Financing safety. Tese low-velocity and imitation frearms can be Act, in particular for the fact that all parties mentioned the indistinguishable from the real thing and are largely strong support and partnership of UBCM and how we all unregulated and easily accessible by our youth. value the support of local governments — the partnership Tis legislation is aimed at combating the problem of and the relationship that we have. gang violence by introducing measures to deter gangs Tis bill is about how this government is committed from using shooting ranges; creating an authority to to strong campaign fnance rules and laws to ensure that impound vehicles used to fee from police or to trans- people are at the centre of decision-making. In that spirit port illegal frearms; and increasing safety in schools, of learning and improving and making amendments to hospitals and places of worship by prohibiting the pos- serve the people of British Columbia better, I want to session of frearms, low-velocity frearms and imitation thank all the members again. I look forward to the next frearms in these locations. stage and being able to answer more questions about some Many of you may think that that is in fact already the of the fner details of this bill. I look forward to that dis- case. It is, if it is a prohibited weapon. But it is not the case cussion and debate on Bill 9. if it is an allowed weapon. I think most of you would be With that, I move second reading. shocked to know that you could walk into a hospital with a 12-gauge shotgun and you would not be breaking the law. Motion approved. Tere may be policies in place, but there is no enforcement [2:45 p.m.] mechanism. Tis legislation will change that. Increasing safety in schools, hospitals and places of wor- Hon. J. Osborne: I move that the bill be committed to ship. As I said, prohibiting possession of frearms, low- a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the velocity frearms and imitation frearms in these locations next sitting of the House afer today. is important, as is providing civil liability protection to professionals who report potential for frearm violence by Bill 9, Local Elections Statutes Amendment Act, 2021, an individual to police. read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Again, I’ll give an example of that. Just a few days ago an Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the individual came into the emergency ward at a hospital in House afer today. New Westminster. Staf noticed that they had a frearm in their belt, inside the waistband. Tey called police. Police Hon. M. Farnworth: I call second reading of Bill 4, resources came. As it turned out, it was an imitation fre- intituled Firearm Violence Prevention Act. arm, but it looked just like the real thing — and, as a result, causes real concern and fears for safety in the hospital, and BILL 4 — FIREARM VIOLENCE police resources are used. PREVENTION ACT Tis legislation will also prevent the misuse of low-velo- city frearms like airsof, BB and pellet guns and imitation Hon. M. Farnworth: I move that the bill now be read a frearms by vulnerable minors and establish new ofences second time. for the unsafe and irresponsible use of frearms and low- It’s my pleasure to rise today to speak about Bill 4, the velocity frearms. Firearm Violence Prevention Act. Tis bill creates the Fire- [2:50 p.m.] arm Violence Prevention Act, repeals the B.C. Firearm Act I fully recognize that the majority of frearm owners and modernizes aspects of the Body Armour Control Act are law-abiding. Tis bill is the result of extensive con- and Armoured Vehicle and Afer-Market Compartment sultations with police and law enforcement experts; com- Control Act. Te bill responds to the recommendations munity-based organizations; educators; health profession- made by policing experts in the 2017 Illegal Firearms Task als; hunting, sporting and rural interest groups; and others Force report to address gang and gun violence. who have an interest in reducing gang violence and sup- Gang-related homicides and violence impact the safety porting the responsible use of frearms in B.C. of all British Columbians. Tere were over 80 confrmed In addition, ministry staf have consulted with Indigen- gang-related homicides and attempted homicides in Brit- ous leadership organizations, including the B.C. Assembly ish Columbia in 2019, and from January 1 to October 31 of First Nations, First Nations Summit, Union of B.C. Indi- of 2020, there were 70 confrmed gang-related homicides an Chiefs and Métis Nation; Indigenous educational and attempted homicides. Gang violence and homicides, organizations, including the First Nations Education particularly in the Lower Mainland, is a problem that has Steering Committee, First Nations Schools Association followed us into 2021. and Indigenous Adult and Higher Learning Association; In addition, the misuse of low-velocity and imitation and modern treaty First Nations and the Nisg̱ a’a Nation. frearms in public places, particularly in urban centres, Comments received from Indigenous leadership and edu- needs to be addressed. Tese incidents cause public panic cational organizations as well as modern treaty First and are a drain on police resources and a risk to public Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 507

Nations and the Nisg̱ a’a Nation were fully considered dur- Task Force and the resulting study that was completed in ing the development of this bill. the spring of 2017. While some aspects of this legislation are modelled on It was tabled when I was still sitting in your chair, laws in Quebec and Ontario, the breadth and scope of our Minister, but you did have the good fortune of receiving Firearm Violence Prevention Act’s approach to reducing a duly completed report with some excellent recom- gang violence is, I think, a leader in Canada. mendations by your current acting ADM. He was the Tis is an important piece of legislation, and I think right man for the job on that. So we look forward to this. it’s important to recognize that this is just one component Tere will be a number of questions coming up in the of what our strategy has been. It builds on work that we committee stage as well. started in 2017, which was the initial report that had 37 [2:55 p.m.] recommendations. We’ve already implemented a number You know, I have to say that the efectiveness of a police of recommendations that are critical in terms of dealing service — it doesn’t matter what police service it is — with gang violence and illegal frearms in this province. isn’t predicated upon the shoulder patch that they wear. It’s Te frst, obviously, that was supported by both sides predicated upon the level of support they get from their of this House, was the witness security program, a made- government, whether it’s municipal, provincial or feder- in-British-Columbia approach to witness security to get al. But most importantly, it’s refective of the tools that we people to be able to testify, to give evidence in a witness as lawmakers provide them. I think this legislation is a security program that enables police to develop and pro- tool that will have some impacts on the gang activity right duce stronger and better cases that will enable a much across British Columbia. more successful prosecution and result in a much more I’ve got two sons in the RCMP, both currently serving in signifcant sentence. Tat’s critically important. plainclothes positions that deal with guns and gangs and Another particular component of our work which I am the drug trade. It’s ferocious out there. Tere are drive- very pleased with was the opening a few weeks ago of the by shootings in many communities throughout B.C. Police new frearms forensic lab in the city of Surrey, a $1½ mil- vehicles are getting shot at. lion facility that allows us here in British Columbia to do Illegal frearms are a real problem in this province. forensic work on frearms and the ammunition in terms Going back to the comments that the minister made, this of not having to send it to Ottawa to get the work done, isn’t targeting legal frearms. Tis is targeting illegal fre- which can cause delays and backlogs — doing our own arms. Tis is targeting the people that will never, ever be work here in B.C. that’s available to municipal forces and allowed to carry a legal frearm licence or a frearm. It’s RCMP forces throughout B.C. Again, a signifcant com- targeting known criminals, for the most part, that take ponent of the work that needs to be done. advantage of the loopholes that we’ve had in the law. Tis legislation implements other recommendations Again, like the minister alluded to, the law pertains to pro- that were a part of that report that was commissioned in hibited weapons right now. Tere’s no problem at all in 2017. I think this is an important step forward, and I look prosecuting somebody for violating a prohibited weapon forward to the discussion, to the debate in the House on or carrying a prohibited weapon in a public place. But the bill. I hope that it will be supported by all members of there’s nothing stopping them from carrying a rife or this House. I think, as I said, it is an important step for- shotgun. ward. And then, I’m sure that there will be questions. At Society has changed immensely over the last two or that point, I will also look forward to the committee stage three decades, where these kinds of things are now debate where we can go further into detail into the difer- frowned upon by the public. I will be asking questions in ent aspects of this particular piece of legislation. here. Tere are a couple of sections dealing with a public With that, I look forward to the remarks and the com- disturbance by carrying an imitation frearm or some kind ments from members of this House on this important of frearm. So there’ll be some fnessing that we may have piece of legislation involving public safety, and I take my to do around that particular aspect and others. But this is seat. something that is sorely needed. As a former police ofcer, in listening to other serving M. Morris: It was interesting. I was quite happy to see police ofcers in the area here, it’s not uncommon to fnd this legislation — get the briefng on this yesterday. I just a frearm under the seat of a car or in the door pocket of want to remind the minister that this was a product of our a vehicle or pickup truck. Ofentimes the occupants of the era. vehicle will step out, and they’re: “Aw jeez, I don’t know Back in 2016, we had a signifcant issue with guns and where that came from. Maybe it was a rental. Maybe some- gangs, in the Lower Mainland, particularly, but body else had it.” Of course, it doesn’t meet the crimin- throughout the province. It was my ofce at the time that al test of “beyond a reasonable doubt,” so the frearm is commissioned the study, developed the Illegal Firearm seized, and everybody goes on their merry way. Nobody gets to face any punitive measures for that illegal activity. Overall, my frst blush at this legislation, this bill, is 508 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 promising. It looks very good. I am looking forward to ing Association. Tat just gives you a sampling of the popping the hood open on the committee stage to look at people who were consulted. a few sections in there dealing with the airsof issues, pellet What this legislation does is that it’s moving forward guns, those kinds of things, and access to ranges and what- and implementing the 37 recommendations that came not. But overall, this is a piece of legislation that I support, out of the task force. With this legislation, what we have and I’m sure my colleagues will support it, as well, as we go now is that the recommendations are either fully imple- through this. mented or in the process of being implemented. A signi- I’m sure law enforcement agencies in British Columbia fcant amount of work has been done in this area. I really are looking forward to having that tool in the toolbox want to do a huge shout-out to the Solicitor General for to be more efective in combating guns and gangs in the the work he has done in this area and for the sensitivity province. he has shown, because this is a very, very sensitive issue in many, many communities. Everyone is wanting us to J. Sims: It is my pleasure today to rise and speak on this do more to end the violence. motion. First of all, let me say that on both sides of the I can tell you that where I live — it’s not a surprise; House, I am sure every one of us wants our communities I’m an MLA for Surrey-Panorama — parents tell me that to be safe. We want our kids raised in safe communities. they dread hearing that sign of gunshots or hearing that None of us likes it when we get a phone call or we read in there’s been a gunshot. Te frst thing they want to do is the media that there has been another shooting. to go and make sure their kids are home and safe. You I’m not saying that this piece of legislation is going to know, that’s a terrible way to live. By the way, let me fx all the problems that exist around gang violence that we assure you that Surrey doesn’t have shootings going on see in our streets, not just out in the Lower Mainland but all the time. It’s not just Surrey. It’s Burnaby. It’s Vancou- I know out in rural communities, as well, or the middle- ver. It’s Abbotsford. It’s Kelowna. sized communities. It is a very, very serious concern to We hear about it right across the….Whether you live in each and every one of us, and we want to make sure that Nanaimo, whether you live in Victoria or whether you live the police, whether they are the RCMP or the municipal in Surrey, no parent wants to get that phone call that says police, have the tools they need in order to do their job. that your child has been hurt or fatally shot. No parent Tat’s what we hear over and over again: “We don’t have wants to get a phone call to say that their child or their the tools we need.” Tere is no magic pill. Tere isn’t a youngster was the person who was holding the gun or who quick fx that’s going to fx all of these things. What we was suspected of holding the gun. need is a multi-pronged approach. Tis particular piece of Te community has been looking, in Surrey especially, legislation is exactly that. It’s not the total response of gov- for some very, very specifc supports. We’ve put additional ernment to what’s going on. It is one component of it. moneys into the schools to prevent — to help young [3:00 p.m.] people get out of gangs. But police were also telling us that As you heard my colleagues ahead of me tell you, this they needed some tools. Tey needed some tools in order wasn’t just done out of the blue. Tere was a task force. to intercept and then to enforce. One of the things that Te task force worked very, very hard in order to get input surprised me was that schools could make decisions about from everybody, and they did a pretty extensive consulta- not having guns on the school site, but if it was a legally tion. Te consultation wasn’t just with the RCMP. Tey held gun, there was very little recourse for the police afer went out into the communities and consulted with a wide that. Ten parents would be wondering: “Well, why…? range of people, whether it was in the rural communities What’s happened here? A kid at school, or an adult, had a or in the urban communities. I just want to read into the gun, and it’s okay?” record the groups that were consulted — for example, the We just heard the Solicitor General talking about an rural and frearms interest groups such as the B.C. Wild- incident at a hospital. Also, we hear — we’re all oversens- life Federation, the Guide Outftters Association of B.C., itized, and we need to be — about violence in our com- the Wild Sheep Society of B.C., the B.C. Cattlemen’s Asso- munities. I think horrifc incidents in places of worship ciation, the B.C. Target Sports Association and the B.C. have also alerted us to the fact that we need to make sure Trappers Association. that legislation is in place and then enforcement, so that Also consulted were the treaty First Nations, the Nisg̱ a’a the police can actually take action against people who Nation and Indigenous leadership organizations such as are taking guns into places that they should not be tak- the First Nations Summit, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, ing them into. the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the First Nations [3:05 p.m.] Justice Council and Métis Nation B.C., and with Indigen- Part of this legislation also will penalize those who ous educational organizations such as the First Nations transport illegal frearms. Tat seems to be common sense Education Steering Committee, First Nations Schools to me, and as I would say, it passes the nod test. Of course, Association and the Indigenous Adult and Higher Learn- if they’re illegal frearms, those who transport should be punished and penalized as well. It also will allow the Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 509 impounding of vehicles which are used to transport illegal what a wonderful project, and what a wonderful way to frearms or to fee police. teach about peace. I’ve been amazed, when I did one of the tours that I got [3:10 p.m.] to do during my last term, to fnd out the kind of altera- I also want to assure folks out there that this is not tions that happen to cars in order to conceal the carriage about attacking those who need to hold guns legitimately of weapons and other illicit materials — you know, making in our rural communities. It is not about going afer those. your car almost like an armoury. Well, if you’re doing that, I know that there are hunters who will have licences and then that should send out an alarm, and now the police hold guns. Tis is not about those. Tis is not about those will have some tools to fnd out why somebody is going who live in remote communities and have licensed guns through getting those alterations done in their cars and be for protection as well as for hunting. able to prevent that. I think it’s really, really important. Tis is not like…. I It also, in here, talks about toy guns or imitation guns. know that it’s a very emotional issue. I was in Ottawa when We’re not talking about the ones little, little kids play with it was a very intense debate around this issue. So I had a lot — or maybe, in some cases, we may be. But we have heard of, when this legislation was coming forward…. I wanted over and over again of horrifc incidents where the police to see that it wouldn’t impact our rural communities in a have absolutely believed that the imitation gun was actu- negative way. ally a real gun, with dire, dire consequences, and we want On the other hand, I think that more and more of us, as to be able to avoid that. So there is very strong language in we’re seeing the increase of gun violence…. We saw what here to stop the sale of imitation and low-velocity guns to happened in Nova Scotia, we’ve seen what’s happened in youth and also make it illegal for youth to fre or display religious places, and we see what’s happened in our streets. these weapons anywhere provincial, federal, First Nations You know what? We’re thinking yes, let’s give the RCMP or municipal law prohibits discharging frearms. the tools they need, because when they have the tools they Sometimes when we think of frearms, or when I need, then they can enforce the laws that exist. I think that thought of frearms in cities, I thought of handguns. Once is very, very important. again, when I went on a tour of one of our facilities, I actu- I want to read out a quote. Tis quote is given out by ally looked at some of the weapons that had been seized Dwayne McDonald. He’s the assistant commissioner, B.C. by the RCMP — or by the police, I should say — because RCMP criminal operations — Federal Investigative Ser- it happened from right across the province. Looking at the vices and Organized Crime. What a lengthy title, but kind of artillery that was gathered there, you almost felt important work. Tis is what he had to say. “Tese recom- it was in a war zone. Tose are the kinds of weapons you mendations targeting illegal and imitation frearms will would expect to see in a war zone — what happened to provide police with the necessary tools to advance invest- the long guns that had been sawed of, and they’ve been igations and combat gun violence in our communities. then sort of accelerated in order to shoot in very, very leth- Denying criminals access to these weapons, as well as fur- al ways. ther regulating armoured vehicles, body armour and afer- It was very, very disturbing to see that and to know that market compartments, are key steps in enhancing public those are not uncommon on our streets and in the hands safety.” of people in our cities and in our communities around When I read this, I kept thinking: I’m surprised all of the province. I’m very, very concerned about that, and I’m this didn’t exist before. I just assumed it would have, really happy that this will also help to tackle some of those because if you’ve got illegal frearms, surely we had issues. enforcement measures in place, but we did not. Once Now, I don’t want parents to think that they can never again, this does not target your legitimate hunter who has buy their kids a toy gun, though, personally, I did not, and a licence and uses it to go hunting or lives in a rural com- many parents do not. But they’re looking at guns that have munity. Te Illegal Firearms Task Force report was very, been altered. Tat’s what they’re looking at — that have very specifc. Tis is part of their recommendations. then been amplifed to be used as weapons. Tat’s very, I also want to say, as I said a little bit earlier, that this isn’t very important. going to solve, in total, the problems we have out in our Also, I can remember a project, as I’m talking about this, communities and streets. But this is part of a process to that I thought was rather beautiful that was carried out by suppress gang activity, including strengthening coordin- the teachers at the B.C. Teachers Federation, led by a won- ation and information-sharing across the justice sector. derful woman called Susan Ruzic. What she did was this We’ve done that, too, using laws and regulations in new art project — and it was led out, and they got funding for it ways. Really, what we’re looking at is disruption, because — where people gave their guns, and out of those weapons if you can disrupt gang activity and have that cooling-of were created works of art. I went around and saw some of period in there, it can actually go a long way to reducing those. Tis was kids bringing in their toy guns into school the number of guns and illegal activities out on our streets. and then the class making amazing art out of it. I thought We have a lot more work to do in this area. I’ve always said what we need is a multifaceted approach. What we 510 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 need is education, early intervention and enforcement. out soon enough. Also, I do know that car rental compan- Ten, of course, with enforcement also comes…. Tere is ies will be impacted as well. always the punishment side of it, with the sentencing that All of this was taken into consideration. It’s about cut- happens, whether it’s fnes or other kinds of sentences. But ting of, doing a disruption, making sure that those who afer that must come fully supported rehabilitation. have illegal weapons…. We have additional tools so that At this time, I also do want to give a shout-out to the we can police and enforce and also make sure that people group of people who work very hard in our communities do know that there are serious consequences when you do to help young people get out of the gang life that they keep breaking the law over and over again, and that we are might have walked into, either accidentally or very naively, not going to be tolerating gun violence in our streets to the thinking they could go in and come out very easily. Teams extent it has been happening. led by people like Jag Khosa in Surrey and Abbotsford and Tis legislation is, as I said earlier, going to have quite in that region…. I know that afer parents have contac- an impact, I would say, on those who are at the low level, ted me, I’ve called his unit a number of times and they’ve and it also brings right into it kids or young people who are immediately connected with the family, talked to the being used as conduits to convey drugs. Ofen, if they’re young person and seen what kind of interventions they doing that, they may have a weapon on them as well. Now could put in place. that we’re actually looking at the vehicles and being able to [3:15 p.m.] reinforce a lot of what we couldn’t reinforce before, where Tose kinds of issues are very, very important, and mak- the vehicle was concerned, it actually will make it very, ing sure those programs continue to be funded is very very much easier for us. important as well. It’s not only about prevention and pun- Now, the government of Canada has jurisdiction over ishment. It also has to be a lot about rehabilitation. national frearms regulations and controlling the Fire- Let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, that living in Surrey, there arms Act and the criminal use of frearms in the Crimin- are very few families that you would come across who have al Code. Tat’s their jurisdiction. Te province has juris- not been impacted directly by gun violence in their exten- diction over frearms with regard to public safety. I really ded family or in their friendship circles or in their neigh- want to stress that. It’s in regard to public safety and law bourhoods. When they come and sit in your ofce afer yet enforcement, and the use of frearms while hunting is in another shooting, and you are talking to them and listen- the Wildlife Act. ing to them, they just cannot understand why we can all [3:20 p.m.] not do better and do more. One of the questions that I have already asked previ- As I say, it’s not just the responsibility of the RCMP or ously, when I was looking at this legislation, was a con- the police or diferent levels of government or our com- cern around shooting ranges, because I know they’re very, munities. It’s all of us working together, because at the end very popular in the Lower Mainland. Tey are very popu- of the day, nothing is as important as keeping our kids safe. lar, I’m sure, all over the province. Tere are diferent kinds Right now, I would say there are many, many parents who of shooting ranges. Tere are those where my kids used are not feeling safe and who are also feeling that their kids to go. Tese are some of the kids I taught in Nanaimo. are not being looked afer. Tey would get on the ferry so they could come over to the Some people will also raise the issue, like: “Why are Lower Mainland and do paintballing. You need to know you guys getting into this? Tis is not your jurisdiction.” that that group was consulted as well. So the consultation Well, there is federal jurisdiction. Tere is provincial jur- was wide and deep. isdiction over diferent things. Tis legislation is defnitely I think some regulation of the shooting ranges…. It’s not the purview of our province. Tat’s why this legislation extraordinary. It’s like keeping a record. Do we really want is coming forward, and it does not go against the recent those who have ill intent to be able to go to the shoot- announcements from the federal government. Tis is not ing ranges and practise before they come out and may a response to Bill C-21. Tis is a made-in-B.C. approach. use those weapons in real life on our streets? My response I would say, even though we’ve learned from other juris- would be absolutely not. dictions, that other jurisdictions will be looking at us afer Once again, this is not meant to interfere with or inter- this is passed and saying that this is leading in trying to vene with anybody who has a legitimate desire, because address gun violence and the kind of fear that is out there of hunting or because of marksmanship, of going to these in our communities. ranges. But once again, there will be records kept. Tose More than that, it’s about giving tools to our police records will inform us, and very, very quickly those ofcers but also to our legal system so that once somebody authorities in charge can begin to look at patterns of what is apprehended with a gun that they should not have, then is happening and make sure that they do address that. there are enforcement measures in place. I realize that this How is this legislation going to make British Columbi- is also going to have quite an impact on people who may ans safer? I would say that legislation sitting on paper, any not realize that their car was being used for illegal activity. legislation, does not make anybody safer. What is going to So now, when a car gets impounded, they’re going to fnd make people safer is that now the RCMP and our other Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 511 police forces in B.C. are going to have the tools they need. community by a ricochet of guns being shot into a house Tey are going to take these tools. Tey’re going to take from the outside. If having legislation like this will ensure these tools into the streets to disrupt the gang activity that that there is a disruption, there is more enforcement, there does exist. I don’t think anybody on either side of the is more punishment, then — you know something? — we House is going to deny that. are all on the right path. I was really, really happy to see my friend the opposition I know I have very little time lef. So before I do fnish critic speaking in support of this. I know from my conver- speaking, I do want to do…. Sometimes those who serve sations with him in the past that he cares very, very deeply us go through a lot of personal stuf that happens in their about building safe communities. I give him kudos for the lives. Tey have deaths. Tey have to deal with trauma, just task force that they put in place. I’m so happy that we have as much as anybody else. taken those and that it just didn’t remain recommend- Right now I do want to take a moment to acknowledge ations on paper, that we’ve actually taken those recom- Jag Khosa, who worked so tirelessly to get our kids out mendations and we’re moving forward with implementa- of gangs and everything. His father, Sirhind Singh Khosa, tion. passed away at the age of 86, an amazing man who lived Tere are some of you who are going to want to learn through the partition of India — born in Pakistan, moved more about this. If you want to learn more about frearms over to India, where he grew up from the age of nine, then and the federal legislation, I would encourage you to go to came to Canada and built an amazing life for his kids here. the website. Nowadays, all of us have a lot of time, and we One of the things he taught his kids was life gives you a are spending it either on Zoom or Teams, or we have time lot, and you give back. When I look at his grandchildren, at hand. who are engaged in social activism in diferent ways, or Non-restricted frearms. Tis is the question, while I’m look at the work that his children are doing, I’m sure he speaking to you, that came into my mind again. Tose are would be proud of them. hunting rifes, okay? As I said previously — and I can- Once again to our police ofcers, everywhere in every not stress this enough, maybe because I need to stress this corner of the province, we thank you, because we know enough because of my previous experience with this con- every day you fght to keep us safe. You are on the front versation — they are not subject to the same possession lines. You go out every day, with your families worried and transportation restrictions, while imitation frearms about you, not knowing what that day will hold for you. and low-velocity frearms are largely unregulated right What you need to know is that each and every one of us now. in this Legislature appreciates every single thing you do. We have to make sure that our schools, our hospitals, Tank you for keeping our communities safe and for the our places of worship are safe. In my riding, I really would work you do. like to get to the stage when I can go a couple of weeks without getting a phone call about another shooting, either E. Ross: It is a pleasure to speak to Bill 4, which has in our city of Surrey or nearby us in Abbotsford or in got to do with frearms. I’ve been listening to the con- Burnaby or in Vancouver. versation here today from both sides of the House, and I’m a mother and a grandmother, and many of you I have to agree, mainly about what we have to do about know that I’m a great-grandmother as well. Tat’s not the the unlawful use or transportation of frearms. I under- kind of world I want for my kids. I want our kids to be able stand the difculties that people are facing in terms of to go out and play in the streets. I want to be able to go into violence in certain parts of B.C. in relation to gangs. But my own backyard. this bill goes beyond that. [3:25 p.m.] Tis was in consideration going as far back as 2016. It I can still remember — and this was three years ago — was under the task force that was commissioned by Pre- lying in bed in my house in Surrey-Panorama and the rico- mier Christy Clark. It actually started the ball rolling on chet of gunfre waking me up as the house behind us was this, on what we’re talking about today. It was important targeted. I can tell you, as much as I knew a lot about this back then, and I think it’s even more important today. Tis and had talked to people who had been impacted by this was also followed up by the work done by former Surrey- personally so many times, the heart palpitations and that Cloverdale MLA Marvin Hunt. fear you have…. I remember, still, running immediately [3:30 p.m.] into my mother’s bedroom to see that 93-year-old to make Basically what all of these initiatives were trying to do sure that she hadn’t heard, and if she had heard, that she was to replace the existing Firearms Act and give tools had someone there to talk to. to the police force to actually help combat gang activity, Ten the next day to fnd out that somebody was fatally as well as combat the unlawful use and transportation of shot in that house — it was quite something and, I can tell frearms. you, very scary for the whole neighbourhood. Not for one moment did anybody in that subdivision, in that area of [N. Letnick in the chair.] homes, think that they were going to be hit in their own 512 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

It’s a pretty interesting story, actually, because my back- to or not, but we knew it was the right thing to do. We just ground comes from being around frearms, right from a didn’t want those frearms falling into the wrong hands. young age. By the way, when we’re talking about…. We’re Ten we started to read more about the registry and not talking specifcally about gangs in my riding. But I do the training and the licensing. Voluntarily, we decided to know there’s gang activity in places like Williams Lake, for participate. I know many First Nations who do this vol- example, so this is not just Vancouver or Surrey or places untarily and also go for the training and learn how not like that. It’s not just a problem there. It’s spotted around only to handle frearms safely but also to transport fre- diferent parts of rural B.C. as well. arms safely and securely. Getting away from the specifcs of this bill, we also have [3:35 p.m.] problems of unlawful use of a frearm, overall, up in our I don’t really see any reference in this bill to anything area. I know this bill is not intended to go afer that specifc related to First Nations and understanding what First activity, but it does exist. It’s hard to describe what can Nations are requesting when it comes to either ownership happen in a small community when a registered gun is or transportation or what this bill is about. It would be used for an unlawful activity. It’s quite scary. I’ve heard the helpful if First Nations understood how far this extends, previous member talk about how scary it was to wake up because we do have that line of federal jurisdiction versus to the ricochet of bullets. I don’t think it matters where provincial jurisdiction. you’re from, whether you’re in Surrey or up in our riding I’m sure that at some point, the Aboriginal community or northern. If you fnd unlawful use of a gun close to you, was consulted. Tey must have been. Te right to hunt like somebody coming into your backyard and shooting is an Aboriginal right protected by the Constitution of your dog, that is scary. But that is not what we’re talking Canada. So I’m sure the government took this into consid- about here today. eration and will include, somehow, that consultation and I really commend all those people on the task force, as provide some direction for those First Nations who both well as the government staf and all of those people that live on reserve, which is not the province’s jurisdiction…. picked up the ball from the task force that was developed But there are a lot of First Nations who live of reserve that in 2016, as well as followed up on the work of former Sur- will be questioning what this really means. rey-Cloverdale MLA Marvin Hunt and actually got this In the same breath, we also have to acknowledge that bill here today. this is actually related to gang activity, but there is First I did tell you that I do have diferent perspectives on Nation gang activity in places like Williams Lake. I think this, based on where I come from. But you know what? this type of legislation crosses all boundaries. It crosses all We’re in B.C., and in B.C., many of our community mem- jurisdictions in terms of what we’re trying to achieve here. bers live, work and play in the bush, and we know what it I hope the government actually can show their consulta- means to be responsible gun owners. First Nations as well. tion with First Nations communities, as outlined in their We know what that means. own UNDRIP bill — the promise to consult on every bill More importantly, we know the importance of handling and every legislation that comes through the House. Fire- frearms safely. But there’s a bit of a diference here, arms are connected to Aboriginal rights and title, because because as we all know, on-reserve rules are not the same it’s the right to hunt. I haven’t seen it, but I’ll read through as of-reserve rules, meaning provincial Crown land. On- it again, and then I’ll double-check, just in case I missed it. reserve activities are actually mandated under the federal My own experience with frearms goes back to when I government, which kind of gives a bit of a grey area when was a kid. Even before I was ten years old, I was taught how we’re talking about these types of laws coming down. Tat to operate a frearm. But like many of my colleagues here, goes for gun registry. Tat goes for gun ownership. I didn’t go to school for it. I didn’t go to an RCMP course. For the most part, Aboriginal gun owners who have the I was taught by my dad. Te teaching that he taught me right for hunting and whatnot are responsible gun own- wasn’t very fun. It wasn’t that really touching father-son ers and voluntarily participate in the programs that are out moment, where we’re connecting. It wasn’t like that. It was there aimed at safe handling, safe transportation and safe, a really serious teaching lesson, as a young kid. secured locations for their frearms. But it’s quite uncertain I’m sure many people went through the same thing. in terms of the rules. Tey had to go through the motions of making sure the I wasn’t quite sure myself, but I understood, based on frearm was empty, making sure the gun was always poin- the teaching that I had from my dad, that there had to be ted up, making sure you always checked the safety mech- a way to get rid of unlawful guns and promote the safe use anisms, making sure you always put it away again — look of frearms. Tere had to be a way. In fact, I convinced my afer it — making sure the rust doesn’t accumulate. Ten father to voluntarily participate in the frearms amnesty afer I went through the teaching, I had to do it again and program, to give up all of those frearms we accumulated again and again. It was serious business. over the last 60 years from all over the coast and just turn My brothers went through the same thing. Tere was no them in to the RCMP. We weren’t sure whether or we had laughing. Tere was no joking. By the way, First Nations love to laugh and joke. But my dad took this really seri- Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 513 ously, and my brothers took it really seriously. Te point a black bear. So in that respect, civil servants do need some being was basically: “Look, you’re going to have to come type of fallback or protection, just in case. out and help us hunt. Sooner or later, you’re going to have Tere are other civil servants that need frearms as well, to learn, and you’re going to have to do this safely, because and this bill is not talking about that. But I think it’s none of us want to get shot.” It wasn’t a joke when we were important to clarify exactly what we’re talking about and talking about frearms. exactly what we’re not talking about, because frearms are Today we still do it, but it’s more formalized. You go to part of our society. I mean, in some cases there are some a frearms course, and you learn all this — and more, by civil servants — especially in today’s day and age with all the way. You learn more in that, as well, you start to learn of the stress, all of the anxiety — that are going into really about the regulations and the laws about owning a fre- sensitive situations. In some of those situations, these civil arm as well as storing frearms. Now I see the province has servants have to think about whether or not there’s going picked up part of the jurisdiction in terms of transporting to be a frearm that will be used. it, which will actually help RCMP combat gang violence It’s not fun, trying to guess whether or not there’s a fre- more efectively, which is not just an urban issue. It’s rural. arm in a certain location and that the civil servant might Tere are parts of B.C. that deal with this type of violence be required to carry a frearm. But some civil servants as well, so it actually helps a lot of diferent people around might not. Some civil servants are not required to carry B.C. feel a lot safer. frearms. So I can see what they were thinking back in For those people that were working on this back in 2016 to try and make it safer not only for the citizens of 2016, I’m sure they had that in mind. My colleague Marvin B.C. but also make it safer for civil servants to go out there Hunt, previous MLA — I’m sure he had this in mind. So and do their jobs safely and return home safely that night. the continuation of the work here is commendable. I’m I know it’s not 100 percent foolproof. Nothing ever is. But just hoping that the full consultation was done. this is a step in the right direction. [3:40 p.m.] I want to make this clear. We’re talking more about Another experience I had growing up, as a young man, the unlawful use of frearms and the unlawful trans- was taking the formal training to operate a frearm and portation of frearms and this basically being the tool to store it. It was under RCMP training, of course, but it was combat gang violence, no matter where it is. I hope I’ve for my work. I worked for Department of Fisheries and described that clearly, because there are a lot of lawful Oceans. It was for protection. It’s actually a huge need up gun owners that go above and beyond what’s mandated in the area where I come from, because you never know. by regulation or laws. Tere are a lot of them, and a lot In my territory, there are grizzly bears, black bears, moose, of them will applaud this when they see how specifc it deer, cougars. You name it; we’ve got it. An angry moose is. Tere are a lot of people that, whether you’re doing it could take you out just as quick as an angry black bear or for hunting or for your job or doing it just for recreation angry grizzly bear, which actually happens quite ofen. Not and going to the fring range…. By the way, I understand as ofen as back in the old days, but pretty traumatic. that this legislation does touch on the ability to go parti- Te point being I understand that there are lawful gun cipate in the fring range, which is good. owners, frearms owners, out there that want to go to the [3:45 p.m.] fring range, for instance. Perfectly acceptable. Follow the But I think it’s important to understand that at the very laws. Follow the new law that will be created here. But high level, at least, people understand what we’re talking there are other uses for frearms that we have to consider as about here. Because Bill 4 mainly will penalize drivers well: First Nations’ right to hunt, as well as those who have who transport illegal frearms. Bill 4 will authorize the to work in the bush, because you just can’t predict what’s impoundment of vehicles used to transport illegal frearms going to happen out there in the bush. Tings you face out or fee police. Tis was also included in MLA Marvin there are not tame. I’ve had the last 45 years plus to learn Hunt’s 2019 private member’s bill, which unfortunately that frsthand. didn’t make it to debate. Bill 4 will prohibit people from But it’s all based on the idea of owning frearms in a having real or imitation frearms in specifc locations safe manner and a lawful manner. Te world we’re moving where these objects would not have a legitimate purpose, into, it seems, is actually requiring more laws just to keep including schools and hospitals. our people, our citizens, safe here in B.C. But the grey areas If you read about this and you see it on the news, the are where I see a gap here in terms of First Nations. Te replicas are so real. Tey’re so realistic. Tey could be toys. clarifcation of the bill, in that respect, would be helpful. Tey could be squirt guns. Tey could be the pellet guns When we’re talking about that…. I was talking about for that new sport that they’ve got. But the RCMP have no myself as basically a civil servant. I worked for the Depart- idea. You can’t tell. Say it’s dimly lit or it’s raining. It’s hard ment of Fisheries and Oceans, going into streams and to tell whether or not this is a real gun or not, and it’s a rivers counting salmon, where absolutely you’re going to really unsafe position to be put in, let alone whether or not see a grizzly, going to see a moose, and you are going to see they’re carrying a knife or something. Tat’s what this bill was attempting to achieve. It 514 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 wasn’t attempting to achieve to outlaw squirt guns. But the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nations, maybe later on we could talk more about the standards and I am very grateful to be able to live, play and learn of what goes into a toy gun and do something to make on these lands. it signal that it’s just a toy. I’ve always disagreed with Like the previous speaker, I have a take on weapons that the idea of making a toy so realistic that it looks like it’s has been part of me for years and years and years. As far made of steel and it looks like it’s got all the features. back as I can remember, my mom…. When I was age four, Tere’s got to be something that we can legislate that my brother came home from the fsh boats. He worked on shows this is not a gun, because those people are going the fsh boats as a teenager. He came home from the boats, out there to do that, the public service, on our behalf, and he brought a rife into the house. My mom said: “Get and it’s hard for them to decide, in the matter of a few that thing out of here. We will not have weapons in this seconds, whether it’s a toy or not. I think this is a good house, because our impulse control is not good enough start to making that diferentiation. that we won’t shoot each other instead of yelling at each Bill 4 will prohibit the sale of imitation and low-velocity other.” Now, she spoke in jest, but she also later spoke in frearms to youth. Tis kind of ties back into the previous truth, because our family fought hard and yelled hard, and point. We’ve got to be sure that the parents understand if there was an available weapon, it might get used, and she what this young person is doing when they buy an imit- was not going to put her family at that risk. ation frearm — that it looks so realistic that there might I come to you as a family member. I come to you as a be some confusion. At the very least, I agree with this, that health care provider. I come to you as a member of the parents should know what’s going on with what their chil- military for over 40 years. I also come to you as a family dren are buying. Tank you to the task force of 2016 and member who has a policeman in the family. My nephew Marvin Hunt for that. by marriage is a police ofcer, and he has been working Curtail gang members’ use of shooting ranges. Yes, and with various specialty teams around weapons and weapons really make the legislation be the bufer between the owner management for many years. We are grateful to all of the of the fring range and the person wanting to use the fring people in our public environment that try and hold our range, instead of just leaving it up to the owner of the public safety as high as possible. establishment to make that call on their own. It’s not fair. A long time ago, when I was working in psychiatric Now the business owner can say: “Well, it’s the law. I’m nursing, we used to get clients coming in, brought in the sorry.” It’s in the same vein as going to buy alcohol. You’ve door of our locked unit, and the frst thing we would say got to produce identifcation. You’ve got to show proof that to them is: “Okay, any weapons you’ve got, put ‘em on you are a lawful gun owner. the counter.” I was one of the biggest of the nurses in Tank you to all the task force for this, and thank you to that group — and we were all females — but that was Marvin Hunt. I have always spoken to this. Protect social a question we had to ask: “Give us your weapons. Put workers and health professionals from civil liability, and them on the counter so that we can make sure that you expand existing laws concerning armoured vehicles, body are safe, that we are safe and that other clients in this armour and afer-market compartments, which criminals area are safe.” Tat’s been part of our history for many, ofen install in their vehicles to hide and transport illegal many years. As health care providers, we always have to frearms and drugs. be aware of weapons. Tis is just a broad overview of the bill. I know there’s Current day. When my colleagues in home care are going to be more debate about this and more to be said. going out, before we go, we do a risk screen over the But again, our primary interest here as a caucus is to give phone with the clients, or with the clients’ care providers, law enforcement the tools necessary to make our com- asking: “Do you have any weapons in the house? If you munities safer all across B.C. and a better place to raise have weapons in the house, how are they stored? Are they our families. Tat’s why I supported this back when my stored properly?” “Te weapons are here. Te ammunition colleague Marvin Hunt proposed this as a private mem- is there. Everything’s locked up.” ber’s bill in 2019. I’m looking forward to reviewing this In the event one of our care providers or our clinicians more and listening to the other people get up and speak gets into the home and discovers a weapon, we’re in a to this bill. quandary because, technically, confdentiality says we’re For all the reasons I’ve outlined, I intend to fully support not supposed to tell anybody about that weapon, yet there Bill 4 once we’ve had a chance to examine this legislation is a potential for danger, for danger to people who are at committee stage and, as well, fnd out where the Abori- going into homes to provide service. Whether it’s palli- ginal gun owner falls into this legislation. ation, whether it’s home support, whether it’s anything [3:50 p.m.] else, we need to always have these gun laws. Again, as previous speakers have said, we’re not trying S. Chant: I appreciate this opportunity to speak to the to penalize or punish or consequence people who know group on this very, very, very important topic. the gun laws, follow them and use their weapons safely. I am speaking to you from the unceded territories of Tat’s not the intent here. Te intent here is to give some Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 515 recourse to working with our increasing danger that sequence it, and we have the tools for our public ofcers to comes from gangs or from illegal use of weapons in a vari- safely and efectively deal with illegal use of weapons. ety of ways. I’ve had the opportunity, as a parent, to support a young It isn’t just gangs that illegally use weapons. It’s other lady who was living with us for the time being, who is of people that perhaps feel they are unable, for whatever reas- Indigenous background, and who wanted to do her fre- ons, to get their point across or show that they have an arms safety because that was really important to her. Abso- authority. So they bring a weapon along to give them lutely. Signed the papers. Give her the opportunity. Let’s authority. Tey may not be planning to use it, but they get it done. Te more people know about how to handle a want to be able to brandish it because that’s what they’ve weapon safely, the better of they are and the more likely seen on TV, and that gives them power. Sometimes that is they are to see when somebody isn’t doing it properly and a very dangerous power. speak to it. As has been expressed, it is very difcult to tell between I’ve had Girl Guides out on a fring range. It was a spec- a real weapon and a fake weapon or an imitation weapon, tacular day using .22s and learning totally new stuf for a and that person can be dealt with very, very hard, very, lot of them. I’ve been on a fring range many, many times very fast, to the point of being hurt, because nobody myself. Always learning. Always redoing the safety proto- knows and people have to act swifly to allay the danger. cols. Always making sure that we’re doing things in a way A little more recently I was in our own Safeway. Tis was that’s appropriate. a couple of years ago. I’m in Safeway. I’m puttering around Tese people are not the ones we worry about. Te doing my grocery shopping, and all of a sudden there’s a people we worry about are the ones that are doing illegal commotion. things with weapons that they’ve either garnered illegally, [3:55 p.m.] or they have purchased them efectively but they’re doing Of course, like a good person that I am, I went towards the wrong thing with them. the commotion instead of away from it, because that’s what Gun violence impacts innocent people, as we already nurses do. And there was somebody wandering around heard. A ricochet can kill. A ricochet can make a perman- in Safeway, behaving erratically, with something in their ent impact on somebody by disabling them, by making it pocket. Tat is very scary. Don’t know quite what it is; see so that their life has changed in a heartbeat. I was in a place a little bit of it. where Corporal Cirillo was killed in Ottawa. I was with my At the moment, it’s being managed by Safeway. Ten unit at that very point when we got the news. He was on in come the next level. Te police are called. Tey come the cenotaph. He was doing guard duty on the cenotaph, in. Tey corral the person. Te person is clearly not in and he was killed, because he was wearing a uniform, by full capacity of what we will call normal behaviour, or somebody who had a weapon they never should have had. whatever. All of a sudden, that person ends up tasered. Survivors. Survivors of weapons incidents are traumat- Tey did not have a weapon on them, but they were behav- ized forever. Whether a child has been injured, whether it’s ing very erratically. If a weapon had been shown, there an adult, whatever. Anybody who survives a gun incident would have been a much more vigorous response as well. — they are permanently traumatized. I have some stories I It frightened me. could tell about clients I’ve worked with. However, I’m not It frightened me that we didn’t have the opportunity going to tell those stories, because it’s about clients, and I’m to say: “Hey, what’s going on here? What can we do?” a nurse. However, I knew that the people who were doing their job [4:00 p.m.] were doing their job to protect all of us. Because they had Mental health clients. Tey’re at terrible risk already. to. Because they didn’t have recourse to do something dif- Tey’re terribly vulnerable. People get frightened when ferent. people act abnormally — when they shout, when they cry Risk…. People who follow the rules, who store their out, when they gesticulate madly because something is weapons properly, who transport them properly, who pur- going on in their head that we don’t understand. You add a chase and sell them properly — not a problem. Not a prob- weapon to that, and they are at huge risk. We know of this. lem. However, we have a whole group of people who don’t We all know this. Again, these gun violence mechanisms do things properly. Tey do things in a way to intimidate will allow us to deal with that — maybe more safely, maybe others, to frighten others, to hurt others and to kill others. more efectively. We have the evidence of that. All you need to do is look Our police have to be able to respond quickly and decis- through the newspapers. ively to protect public safety. So the more we reduce the It’s not just in British Columbia. It’s throughout Canada. imitation weapons out there, and the more we reduce illeg- It’s also in the rest of the world. We know this, and we have al weapons out there, the more efective our police can a responsibility to try our best to set something in place so be in managing public safety. Te police are accountable. that we have the opportunity not only to say, “Okay, we’re Tey’re accountable to their training, and they’re account- going to curtail this,” but we also have the potential to con- able to their rules of engagement, as it were. Tey’re accountable to that. If we can’t give them efective tools, 516 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 then they are restricted by those things as well. We have on a tour through there. Tey have lockdown plans in the seen the efect of some of those restrictions sometimes. event of an active shooter in school. Now we are giving them more efective tools. We’re not [4:05 p.m.] seeking to penalize or restrict the people who are using Tis says to me that this bill is critical and that it’s frearms in a way that refects responsibility for public needed to move through, that it’s needed to give our public safety and use those weapons…. And I call them weapons. safety ofcials the opportunity, the tools and the mechan- Tey are weapons. If you want to use them for what they isms to safely protect our folks from folks who are using were legitimately purposed, please go ahead and do that. weapons illegally. Transport them efectively, store them efectively, and as Now I get the opportunity, in an amazing way, to say pointed out by the last speaker, maintain them efectively thank you to the people that have worked on this bill and so that they continue to be safe. Because as a weapon, as brought it forward; to say thank you to all the stakeholders a gun, they are safe until they are fred. If you fre them who have put their input in, talked about this and worked safely, they’re still safe. However, there is always the poten- on this; to say thank you to our Minister of Public Safety tial to fre them unsafely. for the work that they’ve done in bringing this bill forward Tis act leads us to enhancing general safety of the — and to his predecessors. I believe that this is very, very people of B.C. What is not to like about that? By giving important to our community, and I believe that it will cre- increased capacity to our public safety ofcers to respond, ate a great diference. to enforce and consequence the illegal use of frearms — or Mr. Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to speak poor transportation, as has been pointed out several times, to the assembly. and handling and storage — we are giving them the tools to help us in our public safety goals. B. Stewart: It’s an honour to be here again in the Legis- When I had small children — which is quite a while ago; lature speaking in person and speaking about Bill 4. From I do have to say that — my husband and I…. My husband the very personal stories that members have shared in this is ex-navy. We had a myriad of safety plans. House about their communities, the impacts of gangs and What are we going to do if we lose the kids? What are violence, and all of the things that go with that, I think that we going to do if we lose the dog? What are going to do if at the end of this, there is broad support for improvements we lose the kids and the dog? What are we going to do if to empower our peace ofcers to being able to do the right one of us gets sick or injured while we’re out on a camping thing and being able to get to the bottom of this. trip? What are we going to do when our kids are in school I rise today because of a couple of things. Tis is a prob- and we’re at work and we’re separated by a body of water lem that didn’t just start last year and that didn’t start fve and a bridge comes down? What are we going to do when years ago. When I frst was elected in 2009, I remember our kids start getting into relationships? How do we help the Solicitor General of the day was the head of, and had keep them safe? previously been involved in, the gang task force. We heard Tese are all things that every parent, or that all parents, a lot about it. I do think we really do need to address it encounter in a variety of ways — their own spectrum of and make certain all of the tools that are there, and needed, concerns. At some point, while my kids were relatively are in the hands of the people that are confronted with small, all of a sudden we had to start thinking about what these people — whether it’s just roadside safety checks or are we going to do if we’re in a place where there is an act- vehicles that are in places that, perhaps, they question as to ive shooter? What do we do? What do we do to preserve why they should be there. our own safety? What do we do to preserve the safety of I know that that has probably also led to some of the our kids? What do we do as health care providers, as ex- changes requested by the municipality of Surrey in terms and current military? What is our role in the event that of moving ahead with its own police force. I think they’re something happens while we are there? frustrated by the fact that every week they appear to have Of course, the police will say to me every time: “Suse, issues, and I just wanted to tell them that we empathize. It just get out of the way, get yourself safe, and don’t do any- bothers me more…. It doesn’t mean that they’re happen- thing.” Of course, my thing is a little diferent than that ing in every community, but it has happened in our com- sometimes. However, as a parent, having to make an act- munity. It was in August of 2011 that we had the gang- ive shooter plan — what is that? Why would we have to related shooting of Jonathan Bacon. Te story on that is do that? But we do now. We do now, and we did then. My that three people were convicted, and there was a young kids’ school had lockdown plans that they practised in case lady that was paralyzed. there was an active shooter in the school. Te whole problem was, as former mayor Sharon Shep- I’ve just had the opportunity — and I’ll do a brief shout- herd said recently, the fact that the city knew, the RCMP out — to tour a brand-new school in my riding, Argyle, knew, that the gangs had infltrated and moved into the which just opened in December afer being completely city of Kelowna and, I’m sure, many other communities. rebuilt to meet safety and seismic things. I’ve just been I heard earlier about the fact that Williams Lake…. And I’ve heard stories from my former colleague, the member Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 517 for Cariboo-Chilcotin, about the issues up there. I do hope measures to really prioritize and curb gun violence — cer- that the things that the peace ofcers are asking for have tainly, a concern not only in Metro Vancouver but across been properly addressed in Bill 4. the province. Te result of the successful adoption of Bill I do also want to congratulate the Solicitor General on 4 will be having an impact on gang members and making the fact that he’s brought forward a bill that somewhat has sure that they have fewer options to buy, transport or pos- similarities to what former MLA for Surrey-Cloverdale, sess real and imitation frearms under this legislation, Marvin Hunt, had brought forward a couple of years ago, devised to make British Columbia’s streets safer. and to see that we’ve moved ahead on this. What I do think I want to address the bill and also contextualize my is important is that there is a degree of consultation. comments with respect to concerns that have been raised [4:10 p.m.] to me here in Vancouver-Kensington and, in particular, We heard from the member for Stikine about the issues the great work that our South Vancouver community poli- with frearms that transcend provincial rules and are in cing centre does in terms of partnering with the Vancou- both federal jurisdiction and provincial jurisdiction. How ver police department and engaging residents and busi- do we work with the whole issue about consulting and nesses in the area to address safety and security concerns. bringing people on side to make certain that communities Generally, Bill 4 is premised in…. One of the central are safer? considerations and the aim for Bill 4 is to ensure that Brit- I know that this legislation is going to bring forward ish Columbians feel safe in their communities and their people that are in the legitimate category of hunters, trap- neighbourhoods and that what’s happening with gun pers and things like that, that carry weapons for all of violence and gang activity is unacceptable. We see these the reasons that the member for Stikine cited, whether it’s stories on the news, impacting communities right across grizzly bears, cougars, moose or any of these other wild the province. It’s unacceptable. creatures. Having lived in the Stikine for a period of time, I [4:15 p.m.] know I’ve had my share of scares in the bush without fre- Bill 4, the Firearm Violence Prevention Act, is about arms. ensuring that our police agencies have the right tools to I’ve also spent a good deal of time walking and seeing be able to prevent crime, disrupt organized crime groups the province as a registered hunter. I have to say that it is and gather evidence in support of successful prosecutions important that rifes be transported properly, that they fol- — all important components. Tis legislation is part of our low all of the principles, etc. Tat group doesn’t get to opt government’s multi-pronged approach to target gun and out of that. Tey need to follow the rules so that there is gang violence. safety in terms of other hunters and themselves and pas- We know that it’s not only one measure that we need sengers and things like that. to bring an end to gun and gang violence. I think that I do think that consultation, bringing people along as Bill 4 is an important step in that direction. Today we’re to why Bill 4 is coming forward,. is really important. I’m in second reading, but it’s built on the 2017 Illegal Fire- quite certain that the people, as mentioned by the critic…. arms Task Force report, which provided recommendations Tere was an ADM that brought forward the report, back to help our government respond to the public threats from in early 2017, that had been commissioned by the former illegal frearms in B.C. government. Te fact is that this has followed through in Tis legislation represents a major milestone in imple- the result of something that is important, and I hope that menting these recommendations to enhance public it’s enough. safety on illegal frearms and associated violence. A I know that I’ll be supporting it, and I look forward to number of my colleagues in the House have outlined the debate about it, making certain that consultation has concerns in diferent areas that they have heard from taken place in terms of the diferent groups that are going their constituents on. to be impacted or that think they’re impacted by this. I I want to just take a moment and talk about the South know that I’ll be hearing from the fsh and game clubs, the Vancouver community policing centre, which is very act- B.C. Wildlife Federation and many others. I look forward ive in my constituency. Tey do great work. Tey partner to having the answers for them, to make certain that they with the Vancouver police department and really bring understand exactly what this is. I look forward to support- together — there are many across B.C. — a number of ing this in the coming days. community police centre models that operate. I think it’s just a great model to really engage the public, neighbours, M. Elmore: I’m pleased to join you from the traditional residents and businesses in terms of supporting each other, territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Wau- building community and also being proactive with respect tuth First Nations. to ensuring security, ensuring that folks are safe in our I’m pleased to rise and speak in favour of second read- communities. ing for Bill 4, the Firearm Violence Prevention Act, and to Te programs that they enact…. Tey have a very cap- join my colleagues in this second reading debate. able board of directors. I just spoke to them last weekend I’m pleased that Bill 4 will be bringing in a number of — president Gus Lal, secretary Anna Tse and vice-pres- 518 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 ident Chris Chung — about their priorities in terms of made-in-B.C. law that’s going to serve and protect Brit- ensuring that our communities are kept safe. Tat’s the ish Columbians. So that’s a consideration with respect to context of Bill 4, I think, giving these added measures more the details of the bill and sorting out these juris- and the ability for the police agencies and the Vancouver dictional issues. police department to be able to confscate, and bringing Te question is: what’s currently in place in terms of in measures against guns, imitation guns. Tis also com- a ban? And it’s correct. Under federal existing legislation, plements and supports the eforts of the South Vancouver there are restricted handguns and prohibited frearms, community policing centre and really contributes towards such as machine guns, and there are limits on who can greater safety in the community. possess them and transport those frearms. Generally, I want to address…. I’ve heard concerns from folks in there are restrictions in terms of only being able to be used terms of what the impact on rural areas is. We know there’s at target practice at a gun range, at a gunsmith or gun no question that the vast majority of frearm owners in show, or used by a peace ofcer or frearms ofcer for veri- B.C. are law-abiding. Tis legislation specifcally targets fcation, registration or disposal. illegal and imitation frearms. Illegal and imitation fre- It is to distinguish between…. Non-restricted fre- arms both present a huge challenge to our policing agen- arms, such as hunting rifes, are not subject to the same cies. Te legislation, Bill 4, will have virtually no impact on possession and transportation restrictions. Te big tar- legal frearm owners. Bill 4 is aiming to prohibit the sale of get that Bill 4 wants to address is that imitation frearms imitation frearms and low-velocity frearms to youth. and low-velocity frearms are largely unregulated. So it’s We know and we’ve heard diferent members talk about really a gap. It’s a policy gap. It’s a regulatory gap. Tat’s how, as youth, they grew up using airsof or BB guns or really one of the main priorities in terms of Bill 4 — diferent frearms, particularly in rural B.C. Tis won’t looking to regulate this area. change. It won’t impact that. Youth can still receive these Another area that’s of concern, and it has been raised in as gifs and be permitted to use them if there’s no prohibi- the context of safety for kids in schools…. Certainly, we tion against these frearms in their communities. Tat’s an see just the terrible school shootings in the United States. important consideration. It’s really got to be one of the worst nightmares for any par- Part of Bill 4 — and the importance of really targeting ent, even to see that happen. So certainly, ensuring that our illegal and imitation frearms, of course — is that we know schools are safe is an important consideration. we hear from the police agencies that it’s so difcult to dis- Many schools and other designated properties…. While cern whether these imitation frearms or low-velocity fre- they have policies prohibiting the possession of frearms arms are real or not. Tey’re really indistinguishable. We and other types of weapons on their premises, currently, if can’t tell the diference. I guess that’s part of the appeal, in someone brings even a lawful frearm or imitation frearm terms of marketing, and why people are enticed to pur- onto school grounds, and it’s in violation of school policy, chase them — because they look like the real thing. But there is little recourse for law enforcement if the person ofen they can place the carrier, ofen youths, in critical is not otherwise committing an ofence. So that is also an danger in these circumstances. area aimed to be addressed by Bill 4. So we want to take steps, number one, to protect youth We’re looking to establish the prohibition that will allow and ensure they’re not placed in those circumstances. for enforcement when a person unlawfully brings a fre- Tese concerns are certainly here in Metro Vancouver and arm or imitation frearm onto a designated property, such right across our province. as a school, a hospital — we heard that from the member [4:20 p.m.] for North Vancouver–Seymour, in terms of her experience I want to talk about — it’s been raised, and we’ll get into as a community nurse and issues around hospitals — so it more in the committee stage — the jurisdiction. We have that frearms or imitation frearms are prohibited on these shared jurisdiction with the federal government. Te fed- designated properties — schools, hospitals or places of eral government, the government of Canada, has jurisdic- worship. Tis prohibition closes the gap that we have cur- tion over national frearms regulation and control in the rently that exists for non-restricted, low-velocity frearms Firearms Act and the criminal use of frearms in the Crim- and imitation frearms. We want to make that explicit, and inal Code. We work together in B.C. Our province, our we want to bring that into law. We want to close that gap. jurisdiction, has to do with frearms with regard to public Tese changes, of course, were undertaken in a very safety and law enforcement and the use of frearms while thoughtful and careful manner in a broad-based consulta- hunting in the Wildlife Act. tion. Tey were developed in response to the 37 recom- Tose are jurisdictional issues and questions, but it’s mendations made in the 2017 Illegal Firearms Task Force important that Bill 4 integrates that and ensures that fnal report. Te recommendations that came forward they’re lined up and also closes some gaps, ensuring that related to a wide range of issues — policing, policy, educa- Bill 4, our provincial law, is consistent with the federal tion and prevention. law, which is under review — there’s a review underway [4:25 p.m.] — and that we take the steps to ensure that we have a Generally speaking, the objectives of the Illegal Fire- Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 519 arms Task Force were to examine, to take a look at: what and operate frearms and are very conscientious are not are our B.C. and our government of Canada legislation targeted with this legislation. and enforcement policies? So to do a scan and really assess We have a federal review underway — Bill C-21, which what’s in place. is being discussed. We’ll await to see the results to ensure Second, identify the gaps and what needs to be put that Bill 4 and our regulations are integrated and that it in place, prioritizing and taking special aim and focus to lines up with the federal changes that are coming. combat illegal possession and illegal use of frearms with- So what was the scope of consultation? We have, of in B.C. explicitly, and to develop a report with key fndings course, many who use frearms legally in B.C. for a number and recommendations to bring forward. — a wide range — of interest groups. Tere were consulta- Tis was undertaken. Te task force was led by Mr. tions with the B.C. Wildlife Federation, the Guide Outft- Wayne Rideout, a very capable retired RCMP member ters Association of B.C., the Wild Sheep Society of B.C., who held the rank of assistant commissioner and for sev- the B.C. Cattlemen’s Association, the B.C. Target Sports eral years had been in charge of investigative services and Association and the B.C. Trappers Association. organized crime in B.C. Te task force conducted their [4:30 p.m.] consultations between September 2016 and February 2017 I also attended public hearings on these issues. Cer- and really had experts on board and heard from experts in tainly, in Vancouver, it was hundreds of people who atten- terms of managing frearms, dealing with organized crime ded to share their experiences and give their suggestions in B.C., reviewing research, conducting interviews with and recommendations. individuals and organizations, and community consulta- In addition, consultation with the treaty First Nations, tions across the province. the Nisg̱ a’a Nation; Indigenous leadership organizations I think that’s a really important key in terms of…. When such as the First Nations Summit, the Union of B.C. Indian we want to bring forward legislation, it’s important to can- Chiefs, the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the First vass widely to get input from experts. To get input right Nations Justice Council, the Métis Nation of B.C.; and across diferent stakeholders — individuals, businesses, also with Indigenous educational organizations such as gun owners — right across the board. To hear input, and to the First Nations Education Steering Committee, the First seek that widely. To engage First Nations. Certainly, we’re Nations Schools Association, and the Indigenous Adult obliged, under the Declaration on the Rights of Indigen- and Higher Learning Association — really, a broad-based ous Peoples Act, to consult. I’m confdent that the recom- consultation to get input to ensure that concerns were mendations in the report are comprehensive. I’m pleased raised and that there weren’t unintended consequences for that it’s informing Bill 4 that’s before us today. diferent sectors. Of course, we know that the continued need for this legislation is highlighted by the recent increase in gang [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] and other forms of violence in B.C. Te question is: how will Bill 4 make British Columbians safer? Te legislation We know that, of course, there are businesses with the is designed to disrupt gang activity — for example, drive- airsof and paintball communities. Consultations were by shootings, the supply of imitation frearms to youth by held with that industry, with the related recreational sec- gang members for use as an intimidation tool and low- tor. Te new restrictions are not intended to interfere with level drug dealing. We want to really interrupt that and the continued operations of these industries, as well as really disrupt bringing youth into that gang culture and consideration with implications for the flm industry. that gang activity and exposing them to that lifestyle. We know that the intent of Bill 4 is to ensure that for Te legislation will make it more difcult for gang mem- gangs and organized criminals, we disrupt their activities. bers to use legitimate shooting ranges for target practice. Now, we don’t expect them to pay attention to this bill It will also give police more tools to impound vehicles or deliberations, even when it’s enacted. So how will this and seize frearms related to gang activity. Te province’s legislation negatively impact their day-to-day operations? mandate with the legislation is to increase public safety by Te answer to that is mainly through enabling more addressing these enforcement gaps in our existing federal enforcement tools to disrupt the commission of gang- and provincial legislation and really prioritizing regulating related crime and more tools in the hands of our police imitation frearms that are currently unregulated. Tis bill agencies. For example, police will have the power to will close that gap. impound motor vehicles that are found to be transporting In addition, the Firearm Violence Prevention Act will unauthorized frearms. We expect that that’s an important work in tandem with the federal eforts to promote public consideration, and police agencies have been asking for safety. Of course, balancing and taking into efect and the ability. Police are being provided with new authorities recognizing that to promote public safety, permitting will to seize illegal frearms. Tese illegal frearms will be ef- continue for responsible gun ownership — for legal fre- ciently forfeited to the province under this legislation. So arms users. Certainly, the vast majority of people who own that’s a positive step. 520 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

Tere will also be violation tickets, in terms of enforcing Now we go over to the Minister of State for Lands and the prohibitions under the act. Tose tickets are more Natural Resource Operations. geared towards impacting low-level members of gangs and organized crime and also holding individuals accountable Hon. N. Cullen: Tank you very much, Mr. Speaker. for actions when previously there was no accountability A small but perhaps important point of order. As I was for these violations. So those are some concrete steps that listening to the debate this afernoon, I believe, during are new in the toolbox of police agencies, to take steps and the speech from the member for Kelowna West, I think measures, as well as additional penalties for carrying or he inadvertently mistook myself for the good member for possessing an imitation frearm. Skeena in his comments, not that I disagreed with any of All ofences of the act will be enforceable by a violation the comments the member for Skeena made with respect ticket and penalties imposed by the court upon conviction. to this bill or this issue. Te ticket amounts are going to be established by regula- I don’t want to chalk this up to bald bias. I know those tion. If a person is convicted of causing a public disturb- of us in the follicly challenged community sometimes are ance with a low-velocity frearm or imitation frearm, they mistaken for each other. I hope the member for Skeena could be subject to a maximum penalty or fne of $5,000 takes no ofence in being mistaken for me. He’s a much and/or 12 months imprisonment — so bringing in that better-looking version of it than I am, but I just wanted the measure. record to be corrected — that I think in his comments the As well, the consideration is for youth — that if youth member from Kelowna was actually referring to the mem- are found to be in violation, there will be an opportunity ber for Skeena on what his comments were about this bill. for early intervention with youth at risk to try and extricate Just to make sure that the record was clarifed before we at-risk youth from the possibility of being drawn into gang went further in the debate. culture. So more ability to be able to support youth, to intervene if youth are being targeted to be recruited into Deputy Speaker: Tank you to the member for Stikine, gangs and for proactive measures. and thank you for the clarifcation. [4:35 p.m.] We will now move on. I’m going to join that follicly As well, there are clear defnitions in terms of an imit- challenged club myself one of these days but, for now, let ation frearm, defned as objects that could reasonably be the golden locks fow. Anyways, moving on. mistaken to be real frearms and the distinction, as well, Tanks, Members. I would like to ask the member for between toys that are clearly not real guns, such as water Surrey–White Rock to join us now. pistols. Tat will also be…. Some of these measures and defnitions will be clarifed by regulation. T. Halford: Tank you, Mr. Speaker. Tat’s a tough one In closing, I’m pleased to see Bill 4 come forward. It’s to follow. I will do my best. been the work of many years in process in terms of the What my dad always used to tell me, and he still does, recommendations coming forward from the report in is that there is really never a wrong time to do the right 2017, coming forward from the IFTF report. Tirty-seven thing. I do fully believe that this legislation is the right recommendations covering a broad scope of initiatives thing. I have been an MLA here for all of three months, came forward from the report, and this legislation, Bill 4, just a little bit over three months. It’s been a journey. It’s deals with a number of those recommendations. I think been a fun journey, an interesting journey and an educa- that very clearly will be a positive step to allow police agen- tional journey. cies to intervene and disrupt gang and criminal activity. [4:40 p.m.] Te costs for implementing this legislation are…. It’s not One of the frst things that I was able to do was that I accompanied by signifcant costs. Te purpose of the bill is put forward a private member’s bill on third-party deliv- to allow police — to give them more tools to disrupt gang ery fees. Tis is something that all members are aware of. and organized crime activities. We talked about it during the election, and both parties Tat’s just an overview and some of my thoughts and agreed. It was at a time when our restaurants were in crisis, refections with respect to Bill 4. I’m pleased it’s coming and they’re still in crisis. forward, and it will have a positive impact in terms of I put the bill forward and didn’t hear anything. Ten ensuring that gang members will have fewer options to to the credit of the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor buy, transport or possess real or imitation frearms. General, a few weeks later they made the changes that we In closing, I’m pleased to speak in favour of Bill 4, the all were expecting. Firearm Violence Prevention Act. Once it goes through Now, in that time, were jobs lost? Did people sufer? committee stage, I’m hopeful and confdent that it’ll play a Likely, yeah, they did. positive role to bring more safety and security and to really Tis legislation that we’re talking about today actually disrupt illegal gang and gun activity across our province. can save lives. I believe it will save lives. I just want to go through the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor Gen- Deputy Speaker: Tank you, Member. eral. Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 521

Earlier today he made some comments, and I just want [4:45 p.m.] to read them again because they’re important. “Gang- I want to thank the Speaker for allowing me to speak related homicides and violence impact the safety of all to the bill today. I will support the bill. I just want to British Columbians. Tere were over 80 confrmed gang- make sure that we all recognize that this is something that related homicides and attempted homicides in British Col- touches every single community in every single riding. I’m umbia in 2019, and from January 1 to October 31 of 2020, glad to see the legislation put forward today. there were 70 confrmed gang-related homicides and attempted homicides. Gang violence and homicides, par- Hon. M. Dean: I’d like to start by recognizing that I ticularly in the Lower Mainland, is a problem that has fol- am speaking to everybody today from the traditional ter- lowed us into 2021.” ritory of the Lək̓ ʷəŋin̓ əŋ-speaking people, now known as Te truth is that to the Minister of Public Safety and the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations, and also the Scia’new Solicitor General, these are facts. But he’s absolutely cor- Nation at Beecher Bay as well. I’m very honoured to live rect. Tey have followed us here. Tey’ve followed us into and to work in these territories. my community, to the communities in Prince George, I’m very pleased to speak in favour of Bill 4, the Firearm every community that the 87 of us collectively represent. Violence Prevention Act. People deserve to feel safe in What I want to point out is that the recommendations their communities and in their neighbourhoods, and came forward in 2017. Te facts that the Minister clearly what’s happening with gun violence and gang activity is laid out a little while ago are all afer that. gravely concerning. I see the harm experienced by young Te fact is that in May of 2019, Marvin Hunt, at the people in my community. I know there are women living time the member for Surrey-Cloverdale, introduced legis- in fear in their own home because their violent partner lation that addressed many of the items that we’re talking has a frearm in the house. I know gun violence is in about today. And I want to really applaud the member my community of Esquimalt-Metchosin, and it’s so dam- for Surrey-Panorama because she spoke so passionately. I aging. Tese measures are going to be another tool in our know she’s passionate about it, and she spoke to the fact community to protect victims of gun violence and, most that she was receiving calls in her ofce weekly about gang importantly, to prevent gang activities to escalate and to violence. I think a lot of the MLAs have received calls like take control. that as well. Te Firearm Violence Protection Act is about ensuring Tat member was in cabinet for two years. We could our police agencies have the right tools to be able to have made those changes. We could have supported a prevent crime, disrupt organized crime groups and gather private member’s bill that would have saved lives. I am evidence in support of successful prosecutions. Tis gives fully supportive of what we’re here discussing today. I me an opportunity to say thank you to West Shore RCMP think it’s very important. But at the end of the day, we and Victoria and Esquimalt police. Tank you to them owe it to our constituents to do what’s right at the time. I for working collaboratively with community agencies and believe that supporting that private member’s bill in May with my staf. I also want to say thank you to the West of 2019 was the right thing to do, yet we heard crickets. Shore municipalities, who provide funding for youth who We’re talking about it almost two years later. fall through the cracks and could end up in gang activities, Like I said in my original quote, there is never a wrong and especially thank you to the cities of Colwood and time to do the right thing, and I’ll fully support this bill. Langford. But I really, really do believe that this government, a gov- Tis legislation is part of our government’s overall ernment that’s been a government for over 1,000 days, multi-pronged approach to target gun and gang violence, could have done something sooner. We knew that gang and it does represent a major milestone. We are going violence was a problem in our province. I’ve seen it in my to be implementing recommendations that do enhance community of Surrey. I know that gang violence knows public safety in relation to illegal frearms and associated no boundaries in terms of municipalities. It’s in Prince violence. It is truly needed, because we have seen gun George. It’s in Williams Lake, like the member for Skeena violence and gang activity increasing, and the tentacles of mentioned. I support the legislation brought forward it are reaching further and further into and deeper into my today, but I think that at the end of the day, we all have community. to realize that everybody here, whether they’re in govern- Now, of course, we do know that many British Colum- ment or in opposition, can play a part in this. bians are legal frearms owners. But we know that within In May of 2019, the member for Surrey-Cloverdale did British Columbia, handguns are favoured by gang mem- his best to play a part, and nothing happened. But what if bers. Handguns, we do know, are also lawfully owned by something happened? What if we took that private mem- collectors and target shooters in this province. So we are ber’s bill and what if we actually put it forward and we making sure that we are bringing forward legislation that voted on it and it passed? Would the stats that the Minister is appropriate and will achieve the objectives and the tar- of Public Safety and Solicitor General read into the House gets that we want to achieve with it. today be diferent? Tey may be. 522 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

Tis Firearm Violence Prevention Act provides law mation that’s really vital to her being able to fnd the tar- enforcement with more tools to address the illegal use geted youth as well. of handguns and other types of frearms as well, so it is Now ofen, when youth come to the attention of law designed to have a minimal impact on legal gun users. It’s enforcement, they’re even more deeply already entrenched targeting illegal and imitation frearms, and of course, as in substance use and criminal activity. Of course, they’ve I said, there’s continuing need for this legislation because been recruited into that, and then it makes it even harder of the increase in gang and other forms of violence in B.C. for them to escape. I’ve seen examples of this in my community and across the As the CRED program creates community relationships region of greater Victoria over the past ten years or more. with families, schools, health providers and other service When I was running a community social services agencies, youth can then actually be sent of and diverted organization, we provided a service to youth in our com- in their pathway and their trajectory. Tey can get support munity where there were concerns about them being tar- and help earlier and then be helped to actually to remove geted for gang recruitment, about them being targeted themselves out of what might be a longer career in gang for exploitation, where there were already concerns about activities and getting more involved in gun violence. Tis their mental health and their vulnerability and possibly enables the CRED program to spearhead wraparound care lack of connection to family, for example — young people at a time when it’s most likely to become efective and who were falling through the cracks and who wanted to before the youth become fully entrenched. belong and who could be groomed and targeted by gang In 2019-20, CRED provided service for 206 youth and recruiters who were coming into my community. their families. Of those, 116 identifed as male, 86 were [4:50 p.m.] female, three non-binary and one transgender. I know Some of the names of the gangs I cannot even mention from having overseen the program that children even as here because the language they use is absolutely not par- young as 11 have been served by this program. In fact, I liamentary, but we know that there are several gangs who heard the other day about a 14-year-old non-Indigenous operate in the capital regional district. Some of them have girl who was recruiting an 11-year-old non-Indigenous connections to the Lower Mainland, and some of them girl into sexual exploitation. Of course, she was being just operate here. coerced to do that. So the whole hierarchy is getting into As we observed this increased risk in our community, younger and younger groups of youth and children. we created the frst gang prevention program for our One day in the ofce before I moved into this role, Mia region. It was called CRED, the crime reduction, education had just had a visit from a young Indigenous man who and diversion program. I want to express my appreciation had just had his fngers broken by a gang member because today for all of the staf at Pacifc Centre Family Services he hadn’t paid him back for some drugs. [Audio inter- Association, especially the co-executive directors, Liz Nel- rupted.] Te involvement in gang culture and operations son and Jen Munro. Special, special thanks to Mia Golden is escalated from this initial grooming and recruitment for her pioneering work in this area. to full belonging and then involvement in serious crimes She is the professional who is in the community. She is and harmful use of drugs. So as part of our toolkit, this on the street. She goes into encampments because that’s legislation is designed to disrupt gang activity like drive- where she knows she’s going to fnd the youth who are by shootings and like the supply of imitation frearms to being the most exploited, who are being recruited into youth by gang members for use as an intimidation tool and gangs, who are being brought up the hierarchy of the gang low-level drug dealing. structure. She’s the person who those youth can turn to. [4:55 p.m.] She goes to them so that they know that they have some- An experience of service providers like the Pacifc one that they can turn to who can help them exit. Centre Family Services is really important to inform this Te kinds of services that she provides are one-on-one kind of legislation. Tere was quite a lot of consultation support plans and assessment, providing information during the period of drafing this legislation with, for resources and pro-social opportunities and choices for example, rural and frearms interest groups such as the youth participants, like running a group, for example. She B.C. Wildlife Federation; Guide Outftters Association of makes sure that support, resources and information are British Columbia; Wild Sheep Society of B.C.; B.C. Cattle- available to families and to communities, as well, and to men’s — could be Cattlepeople’s — Association; B.C. Tar- leaders in communities. She organizes the coordination get Sports Association; and the B.C. Trappers Association. and collaboration with other youth-serving agencies in the Te ministry also consulted with treaty First Nations, community so that everyone is watching out for our most the Nisg̱ a’a Nation, Indigenous leadership organizations vulnerable and the youth in the community who are being such as the First Nations Summit, Union of B.C. Indian targeted and exploited. She’s been engaging in ongoing Chiefs, B.C. Assembly of First Nations, First Nations information-gathering through online media, walking the Justice Council, Métis Nation B.C., and with Indigenous streets and networking. She gathers intelligence and infor- educational organizations such as the First Nations Edu- Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 523 cation Steering Committee, First Nations Schools Asso- lation and really important in the area of gender-based ciation and Indigenous Adult Higher Learning Associ- violence. Women who are living with intimate partner ation. violence who reach out for services trust their counsellors. Indeed, aspects of the proposal were adjusted in Unfortunately, there are far too many examples of men response to concerns that were raised by some of these using frearms in their homes to exert power and control organizations. As I’ve said, the legislation provides police as part of their gender-based violence. with more enforcement tools to disrupt the commission of [5:00 p.m.] gang-related crime. When I was working in the community social services Let’s have a look at some examples. Many schools and sector, we ran a community-based program ofering sup- other designated properties have policies that explicitly port and safety to women who were living with partner prohibit the possession of frearms and other kinds of violence. I heard of profoundly concerning situations right weapons on their premises. But take this, for example. here in our community, in our neighbourhoods. One guy Currently, when a person brings a lawful frearm or imit- held a gun to the head of his partner in front of her chil- ation frearm on school grounds and it’s in violation of dren. Another guy pointed his gun at his partner and school policy, there’s no recourse for law enforcement if threatened to kill her. the person isn’t otherwise committing an ofence. In many situations, the woman won’t report this to So, establishing this prohibition will actually allow for authorities. She won’t feel safe enough to go to the police enforcement action when a person unlawfully brings the because, ofen, she’s been threatened that if she makes a frearm or imitation frearm onto a designated property report, her children will be removed or she will be killed. such as a school or a hospital or a place of worship. Tis With this legislation, these risks in family homes will be prohibition closes the gap that exists for non-restricted able to reported by the counsellor without [audio interrup- low-velocity frearm and imitation frearms. Te legisla- ted] continues to need safety and support. tion will also make it more difcult for gang members to Tis legislation supports other ongoing eforts to sup- use legitimate shooting ranges for target practice. It will press gang activity, including strengthening coordination give police more tools to impound vehicles and seize fre- and information-sharing across the justice sector, using arms related to gang activity. laws and regulations in new ways to disrupt gang mem- Police have been provided with new authorities to seize bers’ movement and activities and engaging communities, illegal frearms, and then these will be forfeited to the families and others to help keep young people out of gangs province under this legislation. Substantial violation tick- and help members exit gang life. ets are intended to be established to enforce the prohib- While I’ve talked today a bit about some of the truly itions under this act. Tese tickets will impact low-level worrying situations in my community, there are also stor- members of gangs and organized crime and hold individu- ies of success. A young Indigenous man was served by als accountable for actions that are currently not prosec- CRED, and through his work with his counsellor, he chose uted. to exit the gang that he was involved with. He was sup- All of the ofences in the act will be enforceable by viola- ported in moving physically, and far, away from where tion ticket as well as penalties imposed by the court upon they were operating. He created a diferent pathway for his conviction. Te violation ticket amounts are going to be future, a diferent life ahead of him. established by regulation when the act is actually imple- With this legislation and other supports that our gov- mented. If a person is convicted of causing a public dis- ernment is investing in, we will hopefully hear more of turbance with a low-velocity frearm or imitation frearm, these stories of success and safety. they could be subject to a maximum penalty of a fne of $5,000 and/or 12 months imprisonment. D. Coulter: Mr. Speaker, it’s an honour to speak in front If a minor is convicted of using a low-velocity frearm of you once again, here in the people’s House. or imitation frearm in a prohibited area, they could be I am fully in support of this bill, and I think it’s a very subject to a maximum penalty of a fne of $1,000. Te important bill. Gun violence is devastating, and it is per- penalties related to carrying or possessing imitation fre- vasive in our communities. Even one person shot is one arms, particularly for youth, will allow for early interven- person too many. tion with these gang-recruited and gang-involved youth. People deserve to feel safe in their communities and Programs like the Surrey Wraparound program and their neighbourhoods. What’s happening with gun CRED are an invaluable part of our response to gang activ- violence and gang activity is unacceptable. Te Firearm ity and culture, now and in the future. Violence Prevention Act is about ensuring that our police Importantly, as well, this legislation will also protect agencies have the right tools to be able to prevent crime, from civil liability social workers and health professionals disrupt organized crime groups and gather evidence in who, in good faith, breach client confdentiality by report- support of successful prosecutions. ing information to police to prevent gun violence. Tis legislation is part of our government’s multi- For me, this is an important dimension of this legis- pronged approach to target gun and gang violence. Te 524 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

2017 Illegal Firearms Task Force report provided recom- My friend the member from Langley is a lawyer. He’s mendations to help our government respond to the public keenly aware of this. threats from illegal frearms in British Columbia, and this Te province has jurisdiction over frearms with regard legislation represents a major milestone in implementing to public safety and law enforcement and the use of fre- those recommendations to enhance public safety on illegal arms while hunting from the Wildlife Act. frearms and associated violence. Under existing federal legislation, for example, hand- Tere is no question that the vast majority of frearm guns and some long guns are restricted as well, and pro- owners in British Columbia are law abiding. I, myself, hibitive frearms — machine guns…. Owners have fed- grew up in a family that did target shooting and hunting eral authorizations that limit where they can possess and that sort of thing. Tey always followed the law. Tis and transport these frearms. Generally, they are only bill would not afect them very much. It is designed to tar- allowed to take the frearm from their residence to target get gang violence, for sure. It targets illegal and imitation practice at a gun range, a gunsmith or a gun show or frearms and will have virtually no impact on legal fre- a peace ofcer or chief frearms ofcer for verifcation, arms owners. I looked at the legislation, and I can’t see registration or disposal. where it would afect myself or my family. I think the member for Langley has been to gun shows [5:05 p.m.] before. He just said. We’re prohibiting the sale of imitation frearms and low- However, non-restricted frearms — for example, hunt- velocity frearms to youth, with the understanding that it ing rifes — are not subject to the same possession and is quite common for youth to grow up using airsof or BB transportation restrictions, where imitation frearms and guns — I certainly had one — particularly in rural B.C. low-velocity frearms are largely unregulated. Tis won’t change. Youth can still receive them as gifs and Many schools and other designated properties have will be permitted to use them if no prohibition against the policies prohibiting the possession of frearms and other discharge of frearms or imitation frearms exists in their types of weapons on their premises. Currently when a per- communities. son brings a lawful frearm or imitation frearm to school Police say that it’s extremely difcult to tell whether grounds, in violation of school policy, there is little these imitation frearms and low-velocity frearms are real recourse for law enforcement if the person is not otherwise or not, which can place the carrier, ofen youth, in critical committing an ofence. danger. As well, criminals use these imitation frearms to Establishing this prohibition will allow for enforcement threaten and strong-arm innocent folks. action when a person unlawfully brings a frearm or imit- It’s important to note that the crime and violence are not ation frearm onto a designed property, such as a school, uniquely urban phenomena. Rural and remote communit- hospital or place of worship. Tis prohibition closes the ies may be more vulnerable due to isolation, timeliness of gap that exists for non-restricted, low-velocity and imita- response, availability of community resources. tion frearms. Chilliwack is not free of gun violence. It’s defnitely not [5:10 p.m.] a place that is free of gangs. I don’t know. Many of you may Te development of this legislation is in response to have heard of the United Nations gang. It was founded in the 37 recommendations made by the 2017 Illegal Fire- Chilliwack. So we do have, or had, a pretty big problem, arms Task Force report. Te recommendations in the fnal and this bill works to address that. report include changes to legislation and enforcement I’ve seen gun violence up close. I had a close friend…. policies, as well as recommendations relating to policing I had a pretty nasty work accident. So I was rehabbing at policy, education and prevention. Te objectives of the G.F. Strong. I lived there for a little while, actually. Tere Illegal Firearms Task Force were to examine provincial and was a young man who shared a room with me. He was a federal legislation, interdiction and enforcement policies, doorman at a club in downtown Vancouver, and he was and to identify gaps and needs to combat illegal possession shot in the back with a shotgun. He was very hurt. He and illegal use of frearms within B.C. lives with a lot of pain now, a lot of nerve pain. He uses Tey were tasked with developing a report with key a wheelchair. fndings and recommendations to be presented to the If we had something like this 23 years ago now, I Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. Te task think…. I think it’s possible that this piece of legislation force was led by Mr. Wayne Rideout. He was recently could have prevented such a tragic, tragic outcome. appointed as assistant deputy minister and director of Firearms are an area of shared legislative authority police services. He’s a retired RCMP member who held between the government of Canada and the province of the rank of assistant commissioner and for several years British Columbia. Te government of Canada has jurisdic- had been in charge of investigative services and organized tion over national frearms regulations and controls in the crime in British Columbia. Firearms Act and the criminal use of frearms in the Crim- Between September 2016 and February 2017, the task inal Code. force, consisting of experts with a wide range of experience in managing frearms and organized crime in B.C., Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 525 reviewed and surveyed existing published research, inter- As a former teacher, I know all too well the importance viewed numerous individuals and organizations and con- of safety for our children in school and how important it ducted community consultations around the province. is to maintain a caring, sensitive and open environment Te continuing need for this legislation is highlighted to enhance not only their learning but their protection. by the recent increase in gang and other forms of violence Unfortunately, as we heard before, while many schools in British Columbia. Tis legislation is designed to disrupt have policies prohibiting the possession of frearms and gang activity such as drive-by shootings and the supply of other types of weapons on their premises, right now, when imitation frearms to youth by gang members for use as an a person brings a lawful frearm or imitation frearm on intimidation tool in low-level drug deals, like I mentioned school grounds, in violation of school policy, there is little before. recourse for law enforcement if the person is not otherwise Te legislation will also make it more difcult for gang committing an ofence. members to use legitimate shooting ranges for target prac- I want to stress that we know that the vast majority tice and give police more tools to impound vehicles and of British Columbia’s gun owners are law-abiding. Rest seize frearms related to gang activity. We do not want assured; these changes will have no impact on them. We gangsters practising how to shoot at shooting ranges, that’s know, for example, that it’s quite common for youths to for sure. grow up using pellet or BB guns, particularly in rural Brit- Te province’s mandate with this legislation is to ish Columbia. Tis will not change. Young people can still increase public safety by addressing enforcement gaps in receive them as gifs and will be permitted to use them if existing federal and provincial legislation, such as regulat- no prohibition against the discharge of frearms or imita- ing imitation frearms that are currently unregulated, and tion frearms exists in their communities. this bill is intended to fll those gaps. I also want to acknowledge the committed and ongoing I could go on, but I think I’ll leave it there. I think all work of B.C.’s law enforcement in helping to control gun members of this House should be supporting this legisla- crime and reduce gang violence. It’s well documented how tion. I’ve heard members from both sides saying that they much progress has been made in recent years to reduce will support this legislation. I think that is a good thing. It’s violence from organized crime. I have no doubt that a good thing for British Columbians. It’s a good thing for enhancing their existing capacity by turning our attention our youth. It’s a good thing for anyone who has the poten- to illegal frearms will allow them to further reduce tial of getting in the crossfre of gang activity. violence. However, despite the signifcant advances in combatting P. Alexis: I’d like to acknowledge that I come before gang crime and the violence it brings to our communities, you from the unceded and ancestral territory of the Sto:lo many challenges remain. Tis legislation will support and people, including Kwantlen, Leq’á:mel, Matsqui, Sumas build upon the continuing and targeted enforcement and Sq’èwlets territories. already in place — which means reduced violence, fewer It’s my pleasure to rise today, and I believe I am the fnal shootings, more charges for those involved, and crucially, speaker, and address this crucial legislation, the Firearm fewer youth entering gang life. Violence Prevention Act, Bill 4. Te 2017 Illegal Firearms Task Force report provided recommendations to help our [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] government respond to the public threats from illegal fre- arms in British Columbia. Tis legislation represents a Sadly, it should come as no surprise that the police in major milestone in implementing these recommendations Abbotsford and Mission and its municipal leadership have and enhanced public safety on gun violence. If passed, this been calling for more aggressive gun legislation and proposed legislation will take direct steps to address this enforcement for years. For too long, the city of Abbotsford public safety crisis, based on expert advice and evidence- has been plagued with a terrible gang and organized crime based solutions. problem, one that has shown itself to be a scourge to young It will penalize drivers who move illegal frearms and people, their families and the surrounding communities. allow us to impound their vehicles. It will stop the sale of We have lost over 100 young men over the past few years. imitation and low-velocity guns to youth and make it illeg- Preventing youth involvement in gangs has been a major al for youth to fre or display these weapons anywhere a concern for many of my constituents, especially in Abbots- provincial, federal, First Nations or municipal law prohib- ford. We know there is no easy solution. its discharging frearms. I want to acknowledge Dr. Satwinder Bains and her [5:15 p.m.] colleagues at the University of the Fraser Valley for their It will inhibit gang members’ use of shooting ranges and fne work on this topic, specifcally with their 2019 paper strengthen user-related recordkeeping. It will stop people Developing Strategies on Violence Prevention and Com- from having real or imitation frearms in specifc locations, munity Safety in Abbotsford, B.C. As they point out like a school. I know the minister certainly discussed this throughout their work, “gangs do not exist within a void.” as well. Teir activities impact our entire community and beyond. 526 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021

“It would be a mistake indeed to think that local gangs this point to move forward and to make some important can be neutralized without addressing the broader role” changes.” organized crime plays within them. We know that gang One of the things that I was most keen to do was to put crime is “neither unique nor limited to Abbotsford.” in place, afer hearing from the RCMP and other police Unfortunately, “our province has become a major trans- forces, a witness protection program, that witness security shipment point for guns, drugs and other illicit goods.” program, as a fundamental cornerstone of how we move Guns, however, remain a massive problem since “frearms forward in the area of public safety in British Columbia. are fairly easily acquired by gang members.” We know that We were relying on a federal program, which was fne in local solutions to the gang crisis can’t magically fx all these its own right, but it didn’t meet the specifc needs of Brit- problems, but steps such as what we’re debating today are ish Columbia. It didn’t meet the specifc requirements of nevertheless absolutely necessary. British Columbia and recognize the unique circumstances [5:20 p.m.] that we have in this province, particularly when it comes Tis legislation is part of our government’s multi- to organized crime, because it’s not monolithic. Tere are pronged approach to target gun and gang violence and all diferent varieties. Tere are diferent groupings, difer- the Firearm Violence Prevention Act is about ensuring our ent demographics, so we need to be able to respond to that. police agencies have the right tools to be able to prevent Tat was one of those initiatives that we were able to put in crime, disrupt organized crime groups and gather evid- place early on. ence in support of successful prosecutions. At the same time, we had this really great report that We are putting expert advice into practice to reduce had been done. My new director of police services was shootings related to gangs and the drug trade, give police the individual who worked on that and put that together. additional tools, help make our communities safer and I have an enormous amount of confdence in his work stem the tide of young people entering gang life. and in him, and that’s why he’s director of police ser- I fully support the implementation of Bill 4. vices. So we were able to put additional recommend- ations into practice, and then we’ve been working on Mr. Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, Government them methodically, to get the recommendations from House Leader to close the debate. that report implemented. As I said earlier in my remarks, one of the other ones Hon. M. Farnworth: Okay. I see by the time, hmm…. was the forensic lab for frearms. Again, it’s one of those Okay. I do know that some members appreciate it when we things where we go: “Oh, we should have one of those are able to adjourn a little bit early. here in B.C.” Ottawa is great. Tey do a lot of good stuf. But again, Ottawa is 3,000 miles away. On some days, it’s Interjection. more like 30,000 miles away. It takes time, and there can be bottlenecks and delays, because there are lots of other Hon. M. Farnworth: Oh, you may be here this week- provinces wanting things done. end, but I do know there are other members in the House So putting in place that frearms forensic lab, which is that have to travel to destinations up nearer you. So they in Surrey, is going to make a real diference in terms of the always appreciate it when we are able to. tools that police have to be able to deal with gang crime, So I will speak for a bit, but…. organized crime and those who use frearms in various types of criminal activity. Interjection. [5:25 p.m.] I toured that lab, and it was really amazing to see the Hon. M. Farnworth: Absolutely. technology in place, to be able to watch them as they Anyway, it’s my pleasure to rise and to close debate on can take two diferent casings or a casing and compare it. this particular piece of legislation. I want to thank mem- Te match and the level of detail — you fully understand bers for the participation in the debate. how far technology has advanced that you see just the I want to thank my critic for his thoughtful comments, slightest little diferentiation in how the metal has been because yes, the committee did start while he was on this damaged in that fring. side of the House. It was one of the things I received when Or what happens when…. You think you can just erase I became minister. He will know that of those 37 recom- a serial number of a frearm. Te reality is that, even when mendations, we did start to implement many of those you do that, you make an impression in the chemical com- recommendations. position of the metal in that frearm that can be brought I think it’s important, as I’ve said earlier, to recap some out to show what a criminal thinks has been taken of. It’s of the initiatives that we have undertaken. To me, I know still there. Tey can bring it out with either, ofen, acid- that when I became minister and I met with E Division, I based products or an infrared or laser technology. Tat’s said: “Look, I think we have a really unique opportunity at absolutely incredible. Well, that’s here in B.C. Tat’s here in B.C. now — again, Thursday, March 4, 2021 British Columbia Debates 527 an additional tool. As my colleague across the way, my putting their cell phone when they’re driving — or their critic, rightfully pointed out, it’s not about what patch you wallet or whatever, something that they want out of the have on your arm. It’s about the support that you get. It’s way. It’s not a place to hide an illegal weapon. It’s not a support in terms of equipment. It’s support in terms of place to put an illegal weapon. resources. But it’s also the tools that are in place. [5:30 p.m.] Tat’s where this legislation comes into efect, because Again, tighter regulations around hidden compart- it provides additional tools that were identifed in gaps ments on vehicles. Police stop a car. It’s been speeding. It’s that police have wanted change to be made in. Afer all, been feeing the police, or the police pulled it over, and if you ask most people, they would think it’s insane that there has been some suspicious activity, or they’re con- you could legally walk into a place of worship or a hospital cerned about it, and they see an unauthorized weapon. and have a 12-gauge shotgun, for example. Tat’s just nuts. Well, they could confscate the weapon, but there wasn’t So absolutely, that’s a positive change. You go to buy body much more they could do. armour. Why shouldn’t you be fngerprinted when you’re Well, now we have the ability, with this legislation, to buying body armour? impound that car, to impound that vehicle. Again, it’s a Here’s where I will take a little issue with someone. I way to disrupt activities of those who are engaged in illegal thought most of the comments coming from the opposi- activity. Police have always been concerned around safety. tion side were actually very thoughtful, very good. But I What we have seen is a proliferation of these imitation must admit to being a little sort of, “Hmm, okay,” when weapons, which are ofen…. criticized for not enacting a private member’s bill at the When we were kids growing up, you could see a cap time it was introduced. I’m like: “Okay.” I listened and gun, a water…. Tere’s no way you could ever mistake thought: “Hmm, okay.” Ten I was thinking: “Well, where them to be anything other than what they were, which was were you when I…? What were you thinking when I talked a toy cap gun, whatever. But today there is a deliberate about…?” market around imitation weapons that are so real that I introduced a private member’s bill to ban body police cannot tell the diference. armour. At the time, I remember that there was some We have all heard the stories and seen the scenes on TV mocking and some laughter that came from the govern- where a terrible tragedy has resulted. Too ofen it involves ment benches of the day back then. Ten a few months a young person. Well again, this legislation addresses that. later or sometime later, oh my god, there is the govern- It also recognizes that in many parts of this province — ment, introducing a bill to ban body armour. It was the rural British Columbia, the back country — people grow right thing do, but I also understand how the system up with a BB gun and an air rife. And while we’re saying works. Tat is: private member’s bills are great, but they that we don’t sell them to minors, we also recognize…. have to go through the proper process. You don’t just table You know what? If you’re living in a part of this province it and then expect the government to adopt it the next where there are no restrictions in the local government in day. What we did was to…. Tis was part of a package, a terms of places where you can use them, hey, that’s fne. suite of legislative reforms and legislative changes that all Tis bill does not target lawful gun owners. Tis bill tar- ft in together — so new regulations around body armour gets those who use illegal weapons or try to transact illegal requiring fngerprints. weapons, and that’s our focus. Tat’s why I think that this Again, we know that gangsters and gang members ofen report and its recommendations that form the basis of this want to go to shooting ranges. Shooting ranges are very legislation, to my mind, are so important. When they’re popular. People like to go and practise. What’s wrong with combined with the other initiatives that we’ve taken and showing identifcation when you go? What’s wrong with put in place, I think they make a real package that is going showing who you are? If that helps to discourage someone to help police in terms of doing their job. whose only interest in going to a gun range is to try and…. Hon. Speaker, I could go on for a lot longer, but I know Well, you know that they have illegal, nefarious actions in that we are going to have a vote. Afer the vote, I would mind. What’s wrong with ensuring that they have to sign suggest that we will adjourn. In fact, I know we will in and they have to show proper ID so there’s a record of adjourn, because as House Leader, I get to say we’re going them having been there? Nothing at all. Does that impact to adjourn. It is Tursday, and I know that a lot of mem- legitimate gun owners? No, it doesn’t. But it sends a mes- bers would like to get on their way, get back to their con- sage to those who would use illegal frearms: “You know stituencies for tomorrow and the weekend. what? We are on to you. We are doing things to disrupt With that, I will fnish my remarks. And as I said at the your activities.” beginning, I move second reading. Likewise, when police pull over a vehicle that has a hid- den compartment…. What do you need a hidden com- Motion approved. partment for? You don’t need a hidden compartment in a car. You’ve got a glovebox. Tat’s where law-abiding people Hon. M. Farnworth: I move that the bill be referred to put their cell phone when they’re driving — or should be 528 British Columbia Debates Thursday, March 4, 2021 a Committee of Whole House to be considered at the next Motion approved. sitting afer today. Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until 10 a.m. Bill 4, Firearm Violence Prevention Act, read a second Monday morning. time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House afer today. Te House adjourned at 5:34 p.m.

Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House. Hansard Services, Reporting and Publishing

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