TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BOARD OF INQUIRY
Basin Bridge Proposal
HEARING at BASIN RESERVE, MT COOK, WELLINGTON on 27 May 2014
BOARD OF INQUIRY:
Retired Environment and District Court Judge Gordon Whiting (Chairperson) James Baines (Board Member) David Collins (Board Member) David McMahon (Board Member) Page 7804
[9.33 am]
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, good morning everybody. So welcome along. We have got a day of representations today which we are looking forward to. 5 MR CAMERON: I am going to Ms Rawins (ph 0.53) is here from the agency. Ms Ward is coming down here, we just had a slight communication issue.
10 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry? I cannot hear you.
MR CAMERON: Oh, I am sorry.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you will have to turn that off. 15 MR CAMERON: Ms Rawins (ph 1.03) is here for the agency.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
20 MR CAMERON: Sorry. It keeps doing that. Whereas she will keep saying that I keep doing that.
CHAIRPERSON: Well do it again. I missed it.
25 MR CAMERON: Sorry, sir. Ms Rawins (ph 1.19) is here for the agency. And I am here at the moment waiting for Ms Ward to arrive, who is going to come down and sit here today while representations are being presented.
30 [9.35 am]
Could I please be excused while she is coming? She will be here within about 20 minutes or so, sir.
35 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.
MR CAMERON: But I just want you to know, sir, we are addressing the issue in terms of ensuring that there are people here through the day while representations are being presented. 40 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
MR CAMERON: Thank you, sir.
45 CHAIRPERSON: So I think the first – is it two gentlemen from St Mark’s School, is that correct?
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MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and it is Mr Wiggleston? 5 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Wigglesworth.
CHAIRPERSON: Wigglesworth, sorry. Yes, and?
10 MR FAVEL: Kent Favel. The principal.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Favel, yes. Thank you very much. Now, who is going to make – are you going to make submissions?
15 MR WIGGLESWORTH: No, I will be speaking.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes well, if you could just say your full name - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes. 20 CHAIRPERSON: - - - and say that who is appearing with you, so it is on the record. - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes. 25 CHAIRPERSON: - - - And then we will hear your submission.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Thank you. My name is Roger Wigglesworth. I am the Chairman of the Board of St Mark’s Church School, and I am 30 accompanied today by the principal of St Mark’s Church School, Mr Kent Favel. We are here representing St Mark’s Church School, and we thank the Board for taking time to hear this representation.
The Board has received our detailed submission dated the 6th of 35 September 2013, and we are aware that your officials have also read the report and have commented on it to you in their reports. As a result, you will be aware that our school Board supports this project in part. This is because we acknowledge the economic benefits from improving traffic flows around the Basin Reserve and to and from and airport. We 40 also believe that the NZTA proposal is the best of all the proposals that have been presented to this Board of Enquiry.
However, let me be clear. There are people in my school community who are keen now to change our stance to object. This is primarily 45 because of the high-handed and non-consultative way in which we have to date been dealt with, or dealt to, by NZTA officials. However, I am
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making this representation today still in partial support of the project in the hope that this Board of Enquiry will cause the NZTA to honestly acknowledge the considerable impact the construction and existence of the flyover will have on the profitability of our business, and to start 5 talking and communicating with us about ensuring adequate mitigations are put in place.
Though I do not intend to read out or repeat all the points in our full submission, rather I want to make just four points, an understanding of 10 which apparently continues to elude NZTA officials.
The first point is that St Mark’s is not just a school. It is a multimillion dollar business. Second, that the nuisance of the noise during construction lies less with the actual volume and more with the 15 disruption to teaching and learning from unpredictable and erratic pulses of noise and vibration. Thirdly, the transportation and parking aspects of the proposal creates considerably increased safety risks for our pupils who use school buses. And finally, we assert that the flyover will be a magnet for graffiti artists and gatherings that not only pose a 20 threat to our children and property, but will also significantly reduce the desirability of the neighbourhood and of our school.
Let me speak to the first of those points. St Mark’s Church School has been an institution in the Basin Reserve for 96 years. Our central, 25 convenient city location is attractive to parents who work in the city and relocation is not an option. We are a private school for children from preschool to Year 8, but we are first and foremost a multimillion dollar business. We receive minimal state funding. We survive as a business almost entirely on the fees paid by the parents and caregivers 30 of the children in our care. We compete for our pupils with other private schools in Wellington as well as with the state schools in the neighbourhood. We win our pupils because of our high academic standards, our values and pastoral care, and our family-like school environment. 35 [9.40 am]
This flyover will seriously impact our competitiveness in the private school market in Wellington. First, it will affect our image and our 40 reputation. Being known as the school under the flyover will significantly impact our brand. Second, the construction of the flyover will make it physically easier for parents to bypass our school and take their children to our competitors at Scott’s College over in Strathmore, to Queen Margaret in the centre of town, or to Marsden in Karori. 45 Thirdly, regardless of the facts of mitigating steps to be taken during construction, parents making an 8 to 10 year placement decision of
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bringing their students to our school, and longer for families that have more than one child, they will be potentially put off by what they think the construction will do to our daily activities and what they think the end result will be like. We cannot influence those beliefs, but will 5 certainly experience their impact on the viability of our multimillion dollar business. In this regard, our challenges are very similar to those that have already been explained to this Enquiry by Regional Wines and Spirits.
10 NZTA, on the other hand, think of us only as a primary school. Their proposed mitigation of allowing our pupils to give names to diggers and other equipment, to visit the site, to gaze in wonder at the process of construction and to have morning talks from engineers is exactly the same sorts of measures that they offer 100% state funded schools, 15 whose pupils are required to attend the school because of zoning regulations, lack of alternatives, and other restrictions. NZTA fail to appreciate that all our parents can choose another school, and that there is increasing competition for pupils amongst the private schools of Wellington. Therefore, we appeal to this Board to direct NZTA to be 20 more realistic about the impact that the flyover will have on our profitability. NZTA needs to urgently enter into discussions with us about practical and effective ways in which they may be able to ameliorate the significant threat to our competitiveness that this flyover project represents. 25 Our second point is about noise. We have been persuaded by the evidence of Dr Constantin Wassilieff from Marshall Day that the traffic noises near the school following the completion of the flyover will not be significantly higher than at present. It is for this reason that many, 30 but not all, of the school rooms abutting our perimeter fence, have window glazing that reduces the current noise. We are also attracted by Dr Wassilieff’s recommendation that provision be made in the noise management plan for a properly designed and installed noise barrier between the construction site and public buildings like ours. This 35 would allow the contractor a margin for exceeding the noise limits that might otherwise have proved problematic. We were also pleased to see that during this enquiry, the NZTA has committed itself as a part of its construction, noise and vibration management plan, to constantly monitor and live within specified noise levels during the construction 40 period. We commit to playing our part by ensuring that the project manager is speedily advised whenever noise or vibration levels exceed the promised limits. We thank NZTA too, for its undertaking to consult with us and with our neighbours at St Joseph’s to ensure that construction noise is contained within the noise limits of 60 decibels 45 loud and 75 decibels loud max, and that vibration is reduced so that neither of them is disruptive when church services are being conducted.
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For St Mark’s Church School such services will include out two mid- week chapel services, our weekly school assemblies, our prize- giving’s, and our once a term Eucharist services. Our drama performances and examinations are held in the church and cannot be 5 performed against a background of excessive construction noise. Our church is used for funerals, weddings and baptisms, and it is also expected that by the time construction work begins, there will be services in the church at 9am, 10am, 5pm and 7:30pm every Sunday.
10 [9.45 am]
It is possible too, that weekday evening services may be conducted. However, one critical aspect of the construction noise challenge that the various officials and plethora of expert witnesses who have 15 appeared before you seem not to have taken into account, is the intermittence of the elevated noise and associated earth tremors and dust. Board members will know from their personal experience that unexpected and erratic noises significantly affect the ability to concentrate. This is more acute when the activity in which you are 20 engaged is learning. So for two to three years, the pupils of St Mark’s Church School will have their learning interrupted every day, and for variable and unpredictable periods, by bumps, thumps, whines, revving, rat-a-tats and grating. Unsurprisingly, this will not be a positive selling point for our school. A school that, compared to its 25 competitors, currently enjoys a reputation for enviably high academic achievement. I would also draw the attention to the Board to the fact that the sleep room for our two-year-old pupils is the closest room to the road.
30 Again, we would urge the Board to direct NZTA to talk to us about effective mitigation measures, rather than their current practise of repetitiously asserting that ambient noise levels will not be significantly higher than at present and so there is no problem to be addressed.
35 My third point concerns the impacts of the flyover project on the safety of our pupils. The Board of St Mark’s Church School acknowledge that reduced basin traffic, the proposed new drive-in bays for parents dropping off and picking up pupils at the school gates, and the improved pedestrian path from Ellice Street, where parents will park 40 and walk pupils to school, all these things should make it safer for our parents, caregivers, staff, and pupils to enter and leave our school. We acknowledge too, the statement from NZTA that there will be significant disruption to current arrangements when stage 8 of the construction commences, but that, to quote them, “The MPA will 45 endeavour to minimize the construction impacts on the school. Establishing a close working relationship with the school will help
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identify issue and enable careful consideration of managing effects to occur.”
However, we were astounded to read in the evidence of Wendy Turvey 5 that the proposal will improve the safety of our pupils who travel on the school bus. This is clearly a nonsense. Her evidence correctly states that currently, there is a dedicated bus lane separated from the short- term car parks alongside the school gates, which parents use as drop-off and pick-up spaces. What she failed to unambiguously explain to the 10 Board of Enquiry is that under the flyover proposal, the dedicated bus lane outside our school will be removed. Our pupils, aged 5 to 13 years, will have to enter or exit their bus either outside the new apartments on Rugby Street or around the corner in Adelaide Road, depending on where the NZTA finally decide to construct the bust stop. 15 What this means is that instead of walking under the supervision of a teacher, out of the school gate and directly, within 20 feet, onto or out of a bus, our pupils, regardless of the weather conditions, will need to walk past 3 uncontrolled driveways. The driveway into Wellington 20 College, the driveway into Government House, the new driveway in and out of the apartments that are being built on Rugby Street. And also, potentially around the dangerous corner leading to Adelaide Road, and you have already heard evidence about how buses are going to have to – that is a very dangerous corner for large buses to go around 25 under the NZTA proposal. And they have to do all this in order to catch or dismount from their bus. So this is a neither safer nor more convenient proposal for our pupils, parents, and teaching staff. NZTA have not acknowledged this fact, neither have they offered us any mitigation for the increased dangers and discomforts our pupils will 30 now face, this despite us offering our land for creating an additional drive-in lane, which in turn, potentially could mean that the buses can continue to drop off pupils outside our school gate.
[9.50 am] 35 Again, we appeal to this board to direct NZTA to own up to and then seriously seek to mitigate the ill effects on our pupils’ safety of this aspect of their proposal.
40 Moving now to our final point. The undesirable impacts of the flyover in our neighbourhood. One NZTA official without adducing evidence boldly asserted “I do not believe that there is any aspect to the project that would adversely change the crime profile for St Mark’s in respect of the CPTED interests stated in their submissions”. And other official 45 asserted “I am satisfied that the urban design, landscape and CPTED considerations taking into account the design process have mitigated
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the perceived adverse effects on schools in respect of proximity of schools to the bridge and safety of children in and around the bridge structure”.
5 In response, the Board of St Mark’s Church School today asserts again that it stands by the concerns it and many other submitters to this Board of Enquiry have raised about the potential social, commercial and visual impacts of graffiti and people congregating under the flyover. Unambiguous evidence for this can be seen in other New Zealand cities 10 with flyovers and in television documentaries or from cities overseas. No amount of design features for the flyover or planned planting and landscaping around the flyover or the creation of new spaces is going to mitigate the ill effects on our neighbourhood that we, like others, have described to this Board. 15 I remind the Board again that our parents have choices and if St Mark’s is deemed to be in a part of town that has become visually and socially less desirable than it is now, they may choose to take their pupils elsewhere. Therefore we appeal to this Board of Enquiry to direct 20 NZTA to take more seriously the genuine concerns of those who have raised these issues with you. NZTA must put in place effective mitigation measures such as painting the surfaces of the flyover structures with paint from which graffiti can be washed every morning and instituting regular security patrols that move on anyone who 25 congregates under the flyover without a clear purpose.
In summary, I would like to remind the Board that St Mark’s Church School opposes only those aspects of this proposal that will have a deleterious effect on first, the competitiveness and profitability of our 30 multimillion dollar business; second, the continued excellent academic achievement of our pupils thirdly, the safety and welfare of our pupils who travel by bus; and fourthly, the standard of the current visual and social environment in which our school is located.
35 I thank you for your attention.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well, thank you very much, Mr Wigglesworth. Thank you for your careful and well-prepared submission. And may I also congratulate you for finishing well within your estimated time. I wish 40 everyone would do that. So I do hope – we have got 15 submissions today, so I hope everyone takes a lead from your role today as first up.
Have we got some questions?
45 MR BAINES: Yes, just a couple, really. Good morning, Mr Wigglesworth. Paragraph three you make the statement that you also believe that the
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NZTA proposal is the best of all the proposals presented to this Board of Enquiry.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes. 5 MR BAINES: I am interested to know what your basis is for making that statement.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Sure. Mr Baines, when the proposal was announced 10 and during the period before submissions were made we had presentations to the Board from all the people who had alternative proposals, like Project X, which we quite liked because it had nice green space outside our school, and Mr Reid’s other proposal.
15 [9.55 am]
So we had those presented to us, we had the opportunity to ask questions of those people and we came to the view that on balance the NZTA proposal looked like it was the one most likely to achieve the 20 ends that are expected to be achieved.
MR BAINES: Right, okay. So, well, that answers very clearly you have seen some of those other proposals, they actually came to you?
25 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR BAINES: You have had discussions about them and you were able to ask questions and so on?
30 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR BAINES: Great. My next question is really to do with the fact – I think you have made it clear that really your main concern is about the construction time, because – although you have also mentioned the 35 ongoing visual and CPTED site type issues.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR BAINES: But it seems to me that in terms of your being able to compete 40 for your students – it is that perception about what it is going to be like to have a school operating near a construction project for 30 months or so is quite an important concern for you. Do you have a sense – I mean presumably there are sort of critical outcomes are whether your school roll drops or not? 45 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
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MR BAINES: How much is does that have to drop before it gets very critical for you?
5 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Like all private schools and due to people not actually procreating as well as they ought, times are tough. We are very competitive - - -
MR...... : (INDISTINCT 1.54) is a link between the two. 10 MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - We are very competitive - - -
MR BAINES: No, right. I understand that - - -
15 MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - at the moment, but we are not abounding in profits.
MR BAINES: No, okay. - - -
20 MR WIGGLESWORTH: It is - - -
MR BAINES: - - - I mean presumably people, they would – am I right in thinking prospective parents will register their interest some years in advance? 25 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR BAINES: Are there any indications at the moment that the level of interest for attending the school in the next three or four years is 30 anything less than it has been previously? In other words, given that there is the imminent prospect of this construction project about which, you know, it is well publicised in Wellington, is there any indication that numbers of people registering their interest has declined?
35 MR WIGGLESWORTH: I will ask Mr Favel, who is our principal, who interviews parents or prospective parents to give a perspective on that.
MR FAVEL: The regular question from parents when they come for open days or are having an interview with me talking about a place for their 40 child in their school is about the flyover and the parking and the impacts that has on the school.
MR BAINES: Right.
45 MR FAVEL: And so I discuss with them about the consultation and how we are working with Transit as to – mitigating those influences that there
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might be. But in terms of the role size, and has it had any impact, it is hard to tell. I could look at year 7 – entry into this year’s year 7, to the previous one and it is considerably down. And at the moment we are having a good flow of children from our pre-school coming into our 5 main school, which is up on previous years, but we are just coming through an economic downturn and there are lots of reasons why that is.
But I cannot give you a definitive answer if the flyover has got 10 anything to do with it. I can only say, you know, what people have been asking. - - -
MR BAINES: Right.
15 MR FAVEL: - - - They ask those questions when they come for interview. And I think it is a factor in people’s decision-making process. There are some people that ask those questions that do not come the school and there are some people that ask those questions that do. So - - -
20 MR BAINES: Right. Would I be right in thinking that if one wanted to monitor this aspect of the potential social effect that say, the annual roll and the waiting list at any particular point in time might be useful variables to monitor?
25 MR FAVEL: We do that, of course.
MR BAINES: You do that yourself anyway?
MR FAVEL: We do. 30 MR BAINES: But, you know, going forward, if this project were to be approved that would be one indicator or a couple of indicators of whether your concerns were being born out - - -
35 MR FAVEL: Yes.
MR BAINES: - - - in reality? Would that be fair to say?
MR WIGGLESWORTH: That is true. And I think, as the principal was 40 saying, to date we have been able to say to people “There is a process that is going on, - - -
MR BAINES: Right.
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MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - we are explaining to the Board of Enquiry that there are these potential effects on our school, we are confident the Board of Enquiry will listen and mitigation will occur”. - - -
5 MR BAINES: Right.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - So that has been one way in which we have been able to assuage people for the moment.
10 [10.00 am]
I think the second thing, just to be really clear, a decision not to attend our school because of the noise during construction period, is actually, it means that the pupil is not available to us for 10 years. - - - 15 MR BAINES: That is right.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - That is 10 years’ lost revenue. Because once somebody goes to another school, they do not cheerfully leave that 20 school just because construction is done. So yes, your point is right, construction is of concern to our parents, but in fact, the impact on the school is much, much longer than the construction period, if parents choose not to bring their child to the school during that construction period. 25 MR BAINES: Has longer term consequences.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, very long-term consequences.
30 MR BAINES: I understand. Thank you very much for your answers.
MR COLLINS: Morning. The issue you raised about the position where the buses drop off and pick up - - -
35 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR COLLINS: - - - pupils, I see in your original submission – and you are quite entitled to change your mind, because obviously you learn about these things during the process – but in your original process you are 40 quite keen about that. That is listed as a reason for supporting some aspects of the project, and that you are going to get rid of the buses, particularly the ones from Wellington College. So is that – just take me through what has changed?
45 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Sure. I think when we sat back and analysed – I mean, that was a positive, that we were no longer going to have the
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Wellington College buses zooming through our lane and those challenges. But that did not mean there were not going to be negatives as well, which we go on to explain later on in that submission, in terms of children having to walk quite that distance in all weather conditions, 5 plus having to go past those open, uncontrolled driveways. So yes, in the front of our submission we were explaining to the Board in a sense, why it was we were only supporting in part, and those were the things that we felt were supportive. But later in that submission and then clearly in this one today, we have been quite clear that there are 10 downsides to that move as well.
MR COLLINS: Okay, so it is a balancing thing.
MR WIGGLESWOTH: Yes. 15 MR COLLINS: You have come to the view that, perhaps on balance, moving the pick-up and drop-off place is not a good thing.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Well especially since we do not actually know 20 where it is going to be. It is all sort of a little sketch.
MR COLLINS: Okay.
MR FAVEL: Having a hundred – also, Wellington College boys at the front of 25 our school for half an hour every day, that is something we are very much looking forward to not having, because of the rubbish – they are fabulous boys, do not get me wrong, but they are boys, and boisterous. And that will be one thing that we will not have to monitor anymore.
30 But it is – wherever the bus stop goes, it will not be at the front of our school, but we still have to get the children across. It is a safety staffing issue as well. And moving the children there, it is the supervision of the children before the bus. If it is a day where the wind is blowing at 100 kilometres an hour and the rain is horizontal, the children still have to 35 catch a bus in those conditions, and if it is not near the front of the school where we are at the moment, we can hold the children in the church, we can hold them in the hall, we can move them around and get them safely into buses et cetera from there, but if the bus is somewhere else around a corner, it is a logistically different situation for us. 40 And we do have children that do come to and from school. Transit have spoken to us about children that do come on the buses that they would stop, initially, at the beginning of the day to let our children out at the front of the school which takes away that issue. But after school it is a 45 different kettle of fish because those are public buses, and the buses
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have to go somewhere else to pick the children up. So that is probably the main point, I think.
MR COLLINS: Now when Mr Richard Reid did his presentation for us, he 5 mentioned that he had been and talked to you, and mentioned the possibility of some arrangement where there was a bit of a bus dropping off and picking up area partly within your property. - - -
MR FAVEL: Yes. 10 MR COLLINS: Now, I am trying to remember what he said exactly, but do you recall – what did he suggest? Because he looked at it pretty carefully and measured things.
15 MR WIGGLESWORTH: He has looked at it carefully. While we have spoken to him. In the front of our school, the church is the closest to the footpath. But there is quite a space, which currently has olive trees in it, which could actually be excavated for use for cars to go through it without disturbing our property at all. So we had offered, we talked to 20 him, as indeed we have talked to NZTA, about that possibility and our being open to certainly discuss that.
[10.05 am]
25 So there is just that little, there is a space that would be big enough for a sort of a car driveway to go in front of our church.
MR COLLINS: Right. Just on a second issue, following on to Mr Baines’ question about other options. It is not our role to pick the best option at 30 all - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Sure.
MR COLLINS: But I am just interested in what the perceived advantages or 35 problems are of other options. Now, with option X which is the thing that has been advanced by - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
40 MR COLLINS: - - - one of the main opposition groups, that quadrant would become, I think their view, was sort of a green area largely, little cul- de-sac or whatever, - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes. 45 MR COLLINS: - - - there is different ways of doing it. - - -
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MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR COLLINS: - - - Now we have had evidence in both directions about that, 5 from urban design people and traffic people. Do you understand what they propose? They have been and talked to you about it?
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, they have.
10 MR COLLINS: Do you have a view about that in terms of parking, children arriving, - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: We - - -
15 MR COLLINS: - - - those kind of things?
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, we quite liked the notion straight off, in fact, we were tending that direction because amongst other things, that enables us easy and safe access to the Basin Reserve which our 20 children use for sports anyway. So we thought it had that advantage. The disadvantage was we were just trying to work out how parents were going to get the children to the school, and was there going to be sufficient parking elsewhere. Often parents, you know, especially of our younger pupils, they have got younger children in the car as well, 25 and so they quite like the option of being able to drive up to our gate, let their youngster out, and then be able to drive on. And that would not have been possible under the project X as we understood it.
MR COLLINS: That is how you understand it? 30 MR WIGGLESWOTH: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Okay, so if in fact there was provision for buses to turn around, for cars to park - - - 35 MR WIGGLESWOTH: Yes.
MR COLLINS: - - - and so-on, then that would meet your concerns?
40 MR WIGGLESWORTH: That would certainly be helpful. I think we also looked at what effect that would have on traffic going around the Basin and we were not entirely convinced that the free-flow of traffic was going to be well served by that proposal either.
45 MR COLLINS: Thank you.
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MR WIGGLESWORTH: And I will just say, Mr Reid’s alternative, the biggest concern we had about that was when we looked at when parents or buses even, have to come out from our school, there was actually five lines of traffic you had to somehow merge into and get across in 5 order to carry on your journey back into town. And so we thought that was adding a level of complexity that would not be useful to parents.
MR COLLINS: Right, thank you.
10 MR MCMAHON: Yes, good morning Mr Flavel, Mr Wigglesworth. One of the key things that has come through in your statement this morning is ensuring that adequate mitigation measures are put in place, - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes. 15 MR MCMAHON: - - - and through the issues of your business, the noise levels, the traffic issues and the visual environment, you have outlined what your understanding of those mitigation measures are, but you have also, as a common theme, urged the Board to direct the NZTA to 20 talk to the school about further effective mitigation.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR MCMAHON: And that leaves us in a little bit of a quandary, the absence 25 of knowing what that further mitigation might be. - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Sure.
MR MCMAHON: - - - In one of the matters, the traffic matter, you have 30 given an example in relation to perhaps a drop-off area or some sort of traffic arrangement on the school’s side. - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
35 MR MCMAHON: - - - That is not on the table in front of us at the moment from either the NZTA or yourselves. So that, again, creates a bit of dilemma. - - -
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Sure. 40 MR MCMAHON: - - - I am just wondering, can you be a bit more specific on what those further mitigation measures might be?
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Okay. Well I think, in a sense, what we presented 45 you today is a bit of a signal about the fact that we really do not feel we have had decent conversations with NZTA. - - -
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MR MCMAHON: Yes, okay.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - Whenever we have engaged, and engagements 5 has been, sort of, one meeting and a couple of telephone calls, whenever we have said well, you know, there is noise, there is dust, things like that, we just get told, well it is not any worse than now, so who cares? It is the sort of attitude that has come across to us. So we are quite keen to – we do not know, in a sense, what is perfect for us or 10 what would be the best outcome or what things might be possible. But it did occur to us that certainly, greater care over the noise, stopping the noise or reducing noise especially during construction would be helpful, and Dr Wassilieff talked about putting up a - - -
15 MR MCMAHON: Yes.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: - - - a barrier of some kind. We do not know how effective these things are, we have to be guided by the experts at NZTA. And all we want to do is actually talk to them about options and 20 ways to inference the idea of the graffiti being able to be cleaned off the flyover every morning. Those sorts of things just make the environment on which our school now resides, and will in the future, a bit more attractive. But we just don’t know what other options there might be, and we’d really like to engage a whole lot more with NZTA. 25 [10.10 am]
MR MCMAHON: In that respect, I am not sure whether you have had a look at the various iterations of conditions that have come before the Board. 30 A lot of those conditions are based on management plans, at least for the construction period, which involve ongoing and iterative and adaptive type management, of which St Marks has been listed as one of the players and one of the central participants.
35 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
MR MCMAHON: Does that give you some comfort and confidence that at least there is a process or procedure in place for future conversations?
40 MR WIGGLESWORTH: If the level of conversation and communication is the same as we’ve experienced to this point in time, no.
MR MCMAHON: Okay. So are you looking for some sort of direction?
45 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Well we just need to understand that these officials actually listen, and we’ve been in communication with our colleagues
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at Mt Cook School who are currently having construction right outside their door. And I guess the impression we have gained is that it’s quite good at this point in the process for people to say they will consult and they will consider, the reality is somewhat different. 5 MR MCMAHON: Thank you for that.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much Mr Favel and Mr Wigglesworth. 10 I just have one question, and that is you have mentioned a number of, what you call officials, I presume what you mean by that – witnesses who have given evidence on behalf of NZTA, and some concerns you had, and particularly with the social scientist, Ms Wendy Turvey who 15 gave evidence just a few weeks ago.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: I specifically asked her who she consulted with, and she 20 said she did consult with St Mark’s, do you recall that?
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, we recall her being present in the room.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in the room. So it wasn’t an individual consultation? 25 MR WIGGLESWORTH: No.
CHAIRPERSON: She was just one of a number, yes. So did you get an opportunity to discuss these concerns? 30 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and they were raised?
35 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but for some reason were not connected.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, well our view is the mitigation that she’s 40 suggesting in terms of planting and things, doesn’t feel to us like it’s going to actually mitigate those.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and what about the school bus problem with the children? 45 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Well that we also discussed with them.
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CHAIRPERSON: And it’s also in your submission.
MR WIGGLESWORTH: Yes, so we discussed it, we just haven’t again felt 5 that there’s been listening.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well thank you very much for your attendance today and both of you taking of your time to come and talk to us, we appreciate it. Thank you. 10 MR WIGGLESWORTH: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Now the next is Mr Hartley.
15 DISCUSSION
[10.15 am]
CHAIPERSON: Welcome along Mr Hartley, how are you this morning. 20 MR HARTLEY: Yes, good.
Hello, my name is Michael Hartley, I’m a resident of Mount Victoria. I am totally opposed to this subject. The prime reasons I am opposed are 25 the flyover structure forming the crux of this project will desecrate an important heritage area of Wellington. The high adverse effects will be virtually irrevocable and an indictment on the society of our city for generations.
30 The building of a flyover will not solve supposed traffic problems, the structure is designed to take one way traffic only for very short distance. The minimal time savings now are shown to be 90 seconds at most. It will be well offset by the resultant environmental degradation.
35 There are alternative solutions available that will provide similar benefits. These alternative solutions have not been properly considered. The flyover structure will have an extreme negative effect on the basin, local and even wider Wellington environment for the foreseeable future. It is therefore essential that the overriding criteria that all 40 efforts are expended towards finding a solution that does not dominate and overpower the environment of the area.
My contention in my 2013 submission that there is no evidence that these efforts have been made has been subsequently confirmed by a 45 peer review, albeit ordered by a Board of Inquiry. The Minister for Environment notes the proposal is of national significance and is likely
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to result in significant and irreversible changes to this historic area. As such, the process is the decision making, the design and the analysis must be all beyond reproach. That threshold has not been met in the development of this proposal. 5 The flyover is part of a much larger project, and it is impossible to accurately assess its impact on the environment without knowledge of the wider changes being planned, including ultimate plans for west to east traffic. The flyover does not fall naturally into the category of 10 being the first up in this wider project, and indeed it is possible that it could be rendered unnecessary as more major parts of the project unfold.
CHAIRPERSON: Is that a quote from someone or is that to your writing? 15 MR HARTLEY: Sorry, the printing just went a bit wrong – you will notice I knocked off a number and because I put a number it pushed it in, so no, it isn’t quote.
20 CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.
MR HARTLEY: I now record comments regarding my personal feelings for this area and further comments about the many adverse features of this project. I also document my strong concerns regarding the nature of 25 some occurrences and deficiencies in the process and documentation as follows.
My personal feelings for this area, I’m not a born Wellingtonian, but recall early visits to the city from Taranaki, particularly a visit in my 30 early 20s when my firm sent me on an educational course, accommodating me in a unusual triangular hotel building on a new town intersection, in fact this historic is still there on the corner of Rutherford and Mantel Streets. Despite the then somewhat austere atmosphere of central Wellington, I was always impressed with the 35 green outlook that totally surrounds the city, which complemented the grey but decorative architecture of the business area. On this particular visit I was delighted to discover the Basin Reserve, an open and inviting green space on a sightseeing walk from Newtown to the city.
40 For years I felt an affinity for the Basin as I watched on TV cricket being played in a picnic atmosphere, and since becoming a Wellingtonian have been able to physically enjoy the Basin atmosphere enjoying the various sporting and other activities that take place there. There is actually nothing quite like a test match at the Basin with the 45 embankment full spectators. One feels proud to be here on those days with that scene being shown all around the world.
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[10.20 am]
I am saddened by the proposals that will permanently detract from this 5 historic area. The Basin is special. We should not be trying to turn it into another Westpac stadium of bland corporate boxes and exclusive areas banned to the general public. I hold a season ticket for the stadium and I do not want the Basin to be a similarly unattractive area.
10 The Basin Reserve, the Basin is a historical reminder of the early settlement of Wellington City. This heritage and that of various buildings and structures has been recognised by the Historical Places Trust.
15 Wellingtonians are proud of the Basin for both its world famous atmosphere and its historical significance. This pride has fought off many challenges over the decades to destroy the Basin in the pursuit of roading “improvements” and again, changes are mooted for the Basin in this latest ill-conceived plan for roading “improvements”. 20 Sir Clifford Plimmer is said to have objected to roading plans way back in 1897 as greedy vandalism and this latest partnership between the NZTA and the Basin trustees/New Zealand cricket can equally be described in such terms. 25 In 1904 attempts to place a tram track through the Basin were dropped after public opposition and again, in 1961 the selling of the Basin for roading improvements was abandoned and again in 1963 further roading proposals were abandoned. 30 This latest challenge is unique in that it is amazingly being supported by the Basin trustees – the very persons who are entrusted with the preservation of this heritage area of Wellington City.
35 Unfortunately, the Basin Reserve has been poorly maintained with fencing and seating in an unsatisfactory state. The Historic Museum stand is under serious threat through lack of necessary maintenance and the more recent Vance stand has also lacked the ongoing maintenance that is required to keep it at an acceptable standard. The trustees have 40 sadly welcomed the chance of a free, exclusive building which will provide player facilities without the need to upgrade those already existing.
I have some pictures that I took last September. These do not reflect 45 well on our stewardship of the Basin Reserve and it is just some sundry pictures I have taken now. We could say it was vandalism, but it does
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not look like vandalism where the breaks are often you can see these bulks and they have never had paint so the water goes down and the wood just rusts away and then it breaks.
5 Fencing – I have noticed that there has been a substantial change recently. Whether that is because of a new trustee or not, I am not sure, but anyhow there has been quite an improvement when I came down, but it makes you wonder whether the trustees really have had a great pride in what they are looking after. 10 Ironically the new structure will increase the likelihood of further deterioration of the Basin Reserve buildings as now there are even more buildings to be maintained. And I look at this from a cost point of view because money only goes so far. The Heritage listed Museum 15 stand is therefore placed under even greater threat of demolition. Although some income maybe generated by corporate boxes, there are insufficient large events to make this a realistic prospect. And hiring out for non-Basin events merely removes money from other city venues. 20 The building of the new structure will detract from the picnic atmosphere of the ground. It will spoil the spectator experience. The building is not designed to be available to the hoi polloi but only for players and officials and is therefore in contravention of the trustees’ 25 duty to maintain the Basin for all the inhabitants of Wellington.
And by all I mean – this is just not about cricket; if we look out the window there we will the goal posts are now out for the rugby players to have their lash through the winter. 30 [10.25 am]
So there are other things here we do. We have had the Symphony Orchestra. We have had cannons just over on the embankment outside 35 St Joseph’s Church firing during the Tchaikovsky’s overture. So a lot of this is seen as if the Basin is only for cricket, but it is really for more than that.
Additionally, the building will not mask the flyover from spectators in 40 the ground. It is only designed to hold the view line of a southern end batsman.
Overall the building will have the effect of blocking in the ground and will combine with the flyover in spoiling the spectator experience. This 45 is acknowledged in NZTA’s supporting documentations, which
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confirms that the Basin will be a less pleasant place after the changes are made.
It is even more disappointing that the trustees are endeavouring to 5 obtain a larger structure that may be available, despite this being acknowledged in documentation as having the most negative effect on the environmental experience both inside and outside the Basin.
This will have the effect of losing the intimate experience of enjoying a 10 game at the Basin. The value of this intimate experience is amply demonstrated by the reaction of rugby supporters to the transfer it referred of the 2013 local finals from the Westpac Stadium to the setting of the Hutt Recreation Ground. The close-up and informal interaction with the games is recognised as being a resounding success. 15 This success was followed a few days by the precedent setting appearance of the All Blacks at the same ground in the Hutt, which was also a major success. The Basin is in danger of losing this atmosphere if buildings of no public benefit are erected for elite use only.
20 I believe the trustees’ support of this proposal is in breach of their duty under the deed and they should be making every effort to ensure that despoiling of the recreation ground does not proceed.
It is not the local population that disagree with the proposed project. 25 Overseas visitors are also amazed including the enthusiastic followers of English cricket, who endow their spending power in the localities where their team plays. This group, The Barmy Army, was so incensed that they donated their copyright emblem free of charge to assist with efforts to prevent the completion of this project. Their copyright is not 30 donated lightly as they use their copyright sales to help pay for their cricket tours. And they go all around the world. And this is their copyright and they have got a major, major, merchandise workings of which they give a bit to charity, it helps to finance – get cheaper trips, because they are known as the greatest cricket followers throughout the 35 world, now we would really welcome them in Wellington because they create a fantastic atmosphere here.
It is worth real money. That gives an idea of say, an international group of how they feel about this project that was done for the – it was for the 40 English cricket team when they come for the second test here.
The bridge and the flyover, there is little to be said about the structure. It is overpowering and monstrous. And actually, just on that, there was a witness yesterday who mentioned about the Victoria Park Bridge in 45 Auckland which is possibly somewhat similar where it has got open underneath as this one is going to be and there was ground space
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underneath that people could use. But from my time in Auckland it was still very overpowering thing, I think it was only – I am not sure if it was one or two lanes that Victoria Park, but it certainly wasn’t a wide bridge, a different design of course, but it was very overpowering and 5 from what I understood they are actually going to dump it, and it does have some analogy to what is being proposed here. Even NZTA agree that its effect on the environment is significantly bad. If that is the most praiseworthy description its promoters can find it must truly be very, very awful for its immediate environment. 10 [10.30 am]
So why are NZTA not looking harder at alternatives? To appreciate the future of experience of arriving at the Basin once you have walked to a 15 game at Westpac stadium underneath the open air promenade or walk under the formed in over bridge. Neither is inspiring. That is what the trip to the Basin could be like. To use a frequent analogy, if some happens to fall foul out of a skunk, the effects will continue as long as the skunk remains. Now we can have a little mitigating aerosol spray 20 which may help you briefly pretend, but it cannot actually hide the reality, the real problem: the skunk, it has got to go. And the real problem here is the flyover. It is really – do need an alternative to that.
Now on the – each day when I looked to catch up on the EPA website, 25 they have got their background is this lovely image of every similar probably to that pictures to your left, but is it is a lower down one. And it all looks beautiful. There is very beautiful people there and you know, it makes it seem that this will be okay, despite the fact that there is about 20,000 cars apparently use that intersection. I think there is 30 only three cars I could find in the picture. So your reality of these is a little bit different. And there is – oops, could you flick that on, thanks?
This is a bigger thing, but if you look at the close bridge and just look at the sides. Is that not beautiful, nice colour that the pictures we have 35 been getting are? These are all around Wellington. That is sort of where the footpath ends up, complete with a little bit of graffiti and the concrete does not wear very well. None of the pictures show all the junk that actually goes around these things. You have got your signs, your markings, it is not quite as pretty as the pictures we have been 40 shown. Traffic signs, speed signs. Now that is actually Westpac Stadium. That is very new. I will not call that a flyover, but look at how the concrete – it does not look very pretty anymore. Westpac Stadium, a relatively recent addition. And that is underneath, I did not show that to show all the poles that do not look nice. And I am not trying to say 45 that this project poles will look like that, but it is more again, along the concrete edge is how, after a little while, it does not look so good.
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Now there is a bridge further up. This is what you call ongoing maintenance. And you look on the left-hand side as you go in where the abutment has been clipped a few times. It is not big enough to show 5 you where all the concrete is falling out in the middle, and there is bits of wire and stuff. But the reality is that these things, you get promised everything but – that is on State Highway one, that is actually on part of the road of national significance on the way to Levin. And that is we are back to where we started. So that can go off now, thanks. - - - 10 MR...... : Thank you.
MR HARTLEY: - - - Designations, the area of land requiring designation by NZTA is extensive and that includes a significant area of the 15 embankment seating. It is clear from the sheer size of this designation that assessments provided to the Enquiry that construction effects will be minor are incorrect. Use of an area of land of this size will have a significant effect, the Basin Reserve will certainly not be available for World Cup games in 2015, and possibly not for other activities also. 20 [10.35 am]
Misleading statements really, are made by NZTA that the land subject to designation was all in the ownership of either NZTA or Wellington 25 City Council. That is not so, as the canal reserve land is land held in trust with stringent conditions under the trust deed. Although Selwyn Blackmore now advises that WCC have agreed to barter proposals in conceding canal reserve land, this is beyond the power of WCC who are specifically prohibited under the trust deed from such arrangements, 30 and are thus breaching their legal responsibilities as trustee. Additionally, at a recent meeting of the council, a move by pro-raiding councillors to introduce barter provisions for land held under the town belt deed was defeated and the canal reserve is actually under the town belt deed. Mr Blackmore is therefore incorrect on two counts when he 35 indicates that WCC’s agreement has been obtained to the designation of canal reserve land.
Now, the next sentences from a BOI perspective, you could just cross that out because I have since found, in the last day, just in various 40 documentation that there is a note, in a paragraph that they will be applying for compulsory acquisition which is actually the only way that that land can be obtained. The trustee just basically – well they hold it under trust and the deed says that no thoroughfare may ever be constructed across it. And so under their trustee responsibilities, they 45 are actually stuck with that. Consultation - - -
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CHAIRPERSON: Yes well, those are matters that are outside our jurisdiction. If there is an issue about the trust deed and whether the land can be taken or not, unfortunately that is not within this Board’s jurisdiction. That is an issue that would have to go to the High Court. 5 MR HARTLEY: So the point - - -
CHAIRPERSON: But we understand what you are saying, and you are right to strike those two lines out because it is outside our jurisdiction, but it 10 is background information for us. And if any party has an issue with it, of course they can make an application - - -
MR HARTLEY: Yes
15 CHAIRPERSON: - - - to the High Court.
MR HARTLEY: Yes, they have actually – Oh, you probably cannot see, but I have crossed those two lines already out in my copy. I guess you do not – ran out of time this morning. - - - 20 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR HARTLEY: - - - Consultation: Consultation means that an honest attempt is made to correctly inform citizens of all the facts and consider 25 alternatives to unpalatable or unreasonable decisions. This consultation is falling short in all respects. From the beginning, deceptive conduct was evident when a questionnaire was issued allowing no option for alternatives, and worded so that the only choices available were options A and B. Then, inevitably, NZTA was able to publish that there is a 30 public preference for their option A. The first major meeting I went to was presented, supposedly, by NZTA, and that here in the room next door. When we were given a slide presentation on the need for the project, included in the slides were traffic growth projections which we were assured justified the urgent need for the flyover. Some traffic 35 projections slides were under the title of the Auckland Region Authority. As an Aucklander, I was aware the ARA as we knew it went out of existence about 1990. So these Auckland-focussed slides were hopelessly outdated and now meaningless. I felt that this was idiot treatment number one. 40 We then went into groups for discussion on the project, but we found on questioning the experience of the leaders of these groups, that although wearing NZTA garb, they were not NZTA but they were the consultants for NZTA. And I thought that was idiot treatment number 45 two. Normally, consultants are very professional and they would not like you to think they were somebody else. Additionally, we are
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expected to believe that professional consultants so cosy with NZTA that they wear their garb and seem to be their personnel, are actually independent and that is almost idiot treatment number three.
5 [10.40 am]
The only discussion on alternatives related to several questions on Option X. We were informed that this option had been evaluated but the 90 million cost of tunnelling Memorial Park meant it was 10 unaffordable. No other reasons were put in for its rejection. Consultation and information overall has been so inadequate that a significant portion of the population are unaware that the flyover is a one way road and will not provide for people traveling east.
15 This misconception is well demonstrated by the mayor of Porirua being so unwise as to officially state that the flyover would speed up his journey to the airport. NZTA have helped this misconception by talking of east west traffic when referring to the flyover rather than traffic traveling west. NZTA also uses a deceptive term, “improving traffic 20 between the tunnels”. The writer of the initial visual distraction analysis also stressed that the closest traffic to the ground would be the traffic travelling west. So even he after briefing by NZTA, believed that traffic was two way. This comment was edited from his later report and actually there was a witness yesterday that even said but I am sure 25 the witness would have known better but mentioned about getting to the airport faster.
There was also indication that NZTA have endeavoured to override democratic right to free discussion and in decision-making by the 30 community and its elected representatives. NZTA advisors to the Wellington City Council could almost be taken as threats to withdraw from Wellington projects if voting on the flyover project was not in accordance with their wishes. This is a totally unethical use of taxpayer funds to supress informed and independent decisions being made on 35 such an environmentally sensitive project.
Our representatives could be deterred from voting against these structures from fear of blame for loss of unrelated infrastructure initiatives. It is ironic that the author of these remarks is pictured 40 promoting the NZTA code of conduct which includes the requirement not to harass, bully or intimidate. The ability to readily obtain accurate information should be a feature of consultation but accurate information has been difficult to obtain.
45 For example, we were informed by Greg Lee at the information day organised by the board of inquiry earlier this month, that the pedestrian
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bridge was 10 metres high at a certain point. When questioned on the reliability of this information he admitted he actually was not sure. 10 metres did seem a bit high for it. We were also informed that the flyover was 11 metres wide but 16.4 metres wide at the turn. Although 5 I note the Urban Design Report in the evidence-in-chief advised the measurement is 14.86 metres.
A different width again of 16.7 metres is advised by Greg Lee in an email to a local residents association and you sort of get the feeling that 10 if everyone says something different in the end we will get frustrated and give up and go away. It is a pity that NZTA absolutely refused to provide a scale model for such an important environmental project. Although it is maintained that their pictures and plans were adequate these only showed pretty people lounging around and it is only from 15 Board of Inquiry requests that realistic understanding was gained of the effects as viewed by Grandstand Apartments and Patterson Street. And it is worrying that there could still be other views that NZTA have decided are inappropriate for publication. I do not feel that consultation has reached the standard of integrity required for a project that the 20 minister considers will have significant and irreversible environmental effects.
[10.45 am]
25 Assessments, the accuracy of various assessments is a matter of importance in the study of this project but some assessments do not appear to have received sufficiently robust scrutiny. The assessments have been well queried at this inquiry so I will just mention some apparent inconsistencies. Traffic counts at the tunnel do not confirm a 30 steady growth in traffic volumes and the Minister of Primary Industries has publicly disagreed with the growth expectations for Wellington Airport which are consideration factor of this project.
I fail to appreciate how the establishment of a park at the top of 35 Cambridge Terrace is considered in the Social Impact Report paragraph 5.34 to be a positive effect when in paragraph 5.5 the loss of the park on the other side of the road to place the building which is going to have the screen on is also a plus. Particularly when one NZTA report describes the area as “this will be an area to pass through not to dwell”. 40 I note that a peer review document also noted an inconsistency in reaching conclusions which is a perturbing comment given the importance of this inquiry. In paragraph 5.38 the Northern Gateway Building is described as “improving the amenity and enjoyment of the 45 players and spectators” when this is an exclusive building not intended for Joe public spectators. In fact I noted in the initial documentation
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that although cricketers would be able to enjoy their new amenities, footballers and similar lowly elk would be expected to shower in the current facilities described in paragraph 38 as “aging facilities”.
5 Many improvements stated as deriving from this project are not dependent on the flyover and could be implemented immediately should NZTA wish to alleviate alleged congestion. However, this would weaken the argument for a flyover. Part of the Memorial Park project is consistently stated as mitigation for the flyover. This cannot 10 be used as mitigation as it is an existing environment arising from an already approved and nearly finished project designed to commemorate fallen soldiers. It is sad that NZTA are using this memorial as mitigation for their concrete flyover when the landscaping of the park and its approaches will be completed regardless of whether the flyover 15 proceeds.
Conflicts of interest, conflicts of interest are not unusual but it needs to be apparent that decisions are made on merit and are independent of other interests. That criteria has not been shown to be met. In this 20 project a clear conflict of interest was evident in secret negotiations proceedings regarding NZTA roading issues and New Zealand cricket facilities. The head of both organisations was the same person so he was basically negotiating with himself. When this became publicly known the head of NZTA was obliged to withdraw and pass the 25 negotiations onto a subordinate. This subordinate then had to deal with the conflict of doing what the boss wanted or taking a different line. No change occurred and the initial agreements are really what is coming up at this hearing.
30 The subordinate also had a partner running the Planning Department of WCC and involved in transport issues. Inquiries to a councillor indicated that no steps were taken to manage this conflict. This stance does not assist the council to rebut claims made in a public letter by Richard Reid, another submitter, that council officers issued a negative 35 report on his proposals without any consultation to establish the correctness of their understanding. And then again the secret agreement by the council’s CEO, a councillor come Basin Trustee and NZTA which has been reported that it was contrary to council policy at the time. 40 A lackless lack of transparency and transparency is also a requirement of the NZTA code of conduct, indicates that the proponents of this project are of the view that it would not be approved if open and transparent processes were employed. The alternatives have not been 45 adequately evaluated given the highly adverse features resulting from the bridge construction.
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[10.50 am]
The peer review has already made the Board of Inquiry well aware that 5 alternatives were not given even reasonable consideration by NZTA and I agree with their views.
The – what was the Richard Reid or RR alternative since enhance was dismissed as having no benefit without explanatory reasons, although 10 aspects of this alternative are included as benefits in NZTA proposals.
And I note with this one there’s a couple of highly respected NZTA engineers and they were sort of at the top rather than the bottom, have actually joined in with “Riched reasoned” that’s what they call this 15 enhancement programs.
Option X was also dismissed on the basis inter alia that it has negative environmental outcomes without a considered analysis recorded of these. 20 Considering the highly negative environmental outcomes from the flyover and the extremely high mitigation costs, still to be factored in, this Option should have also received more reasoned evaluation. And the Option B produced by NZTA appears to be a straw man of such 25 poor urban design that it seems it was included only to ensure approval of Option A.
The Northern Gateway Building, this building is not required as expert Ophthalmology opinion has been provided by NZTA that a batsmen’s 30 vision will be adequately protected by sight screens. This structure is simply a gift to New Zealand Cricket to buy off objections to this project.
So Clifford Plimmer’s comments back in 1897 actually describe that 35 right.
Now the Ophthalmology report: It does say during it that the Northern Gateway Building will prevent batsmen seeing the traffic, but it doesn’t say that it’s essential that they don’t see this traffic. They actually say 40 that the sight screen really does the job and that a batsmen beyond the sight screen, spectators and everything else that’s beyond his peripheral vision. So although this will take the view from the batsmen, it’s actually not necessary that it actually do so.
45 New Zealand Crickets actually reached a stage where it needs to restore pride in its operation, and this will not occur by gaining a structure for
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a few at the expense of the local community and will serve as an example to players, so ethical values should not interfere with the opportunity to gain an advantage which is very topical.
5 This building actually aggravates the situation and creates further environmental degradation both inside and outside the Basin. Should the flyover proceed, the project should not include the NGB as combine structures will further close in the open space of the area. Why build two bad structures when even one is sufficiently damaging. 10 Protection of the Vulnerable: A feature of this inquiry has been the withdrawal of opposing parties as back rear end deals financed by the taxpayer are concluded with more influential parties, and I was here the other day and two were withdrawn, the Roman Catholic Church one 15 and I think it was Regional Wine where whatever office they’ve got, we don’t know, but anyhow they’ve – their objections have been settled and however they were settled it will have to cost money.
However, there are many local inhabitants who will experience major 20 adverse effects from the construction and operation of the flyover, but who do not have the resources or influence to obtain relief.
[10.55 am]
25 I request the Board, should this application be unfortunately granted to provide for provisions to protect and compensate the citizens. I propose that preconstruction inspections are carried out on properties that could be affected by the project. The area covered by these inspections should be far more expensive than the two only properties recorded as being 30 affected. And I have said two, there is actually three, because Grandstand apartments sort of stands alone as being of that group. An independent referee should be appointed to monitor noise, dust and other nuisance levels, and actually have the power to hold construction where these are creating more than minor adverse effects. This 35 monitoring should be over a similarly greater area. Properties in the monitored area should be provided with double glazing and other facilities to reduce the adverse effects being experienced. These facilities should also be provided to properties outside the area that experience similar adverse effects as noted by the referee. 40 What we do not know is how this is going to, in the end, affect with the bouncing effect around Mt Victoria. And this is totally beyond me. It is a different – it goes up and how the sound is going to bounce back, I do not know. Also at the end of construction, inspections be completed 45 and any structural damage noted be repaired or adequately compensated where repair is not a viable option.
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Now, conditions on similar lines have been presented to the Board’s planner by the Mt Victoria Residents’ Association, and I would request the Board to consider these, and I think that would probably cover my 5 lot as well. I believe these measures are reasonable when compared with advantages being granted to New Zealand cricket, whose use of the Basin is minimal compared to the time period use of their homes by the affected residents.
10 Legislation and regional city planning: The proposal does not meet the objectives of the regional council or city council plans for Wellington, and in particular is contrary to the objectives of the Ngauranga to Airport corridor plan. The project will create significant adverse heritage, social, health and other effects. It does not promote 15 sustainable use of resources. These plans are more about public transport and such like, but not confined to public transport. But really, the gains for public transport are pretty minimal. I have travelled by bus through the Basin. The buses actually cruise up Kent Terrace because they have got their own lane. Crossover and actually get 20 around the Basin quite smartly. It is not a major-major. It is slower for them coming down the other side, that would be Adelaide Road, however, they’ve still got a free lane for during the high periods of traffic.
25 Conclusion: I have actually put two, but I have got three. I actually requested that the application be declined. I requested that this application be declined until a comprehensive plan is produced of the large project to accurately assess the full picture. Should NZTA wish to make immediate traffic improvements at the Basin, they proceed with 30 an alternative at-grade solution so that the effects of any increase in tunnel capacity can be assessed before environmentally damaging activities are progressed.
And that is my lot, and I thank the Board for allowing me to speak, and 35 I think I have just snuck in - - -
CHAIRPERSON: You have snuck in by quarter of an hour, so you have done very well.
40 MR HARTLEY: I did not need to speak quite so fast.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hartley, thank you very much for a very carefully and well-prepared submission. And we do thank you very much. Just whereabouts do you live? Do you live in…? 45
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MR HARLEY: I am in Porritt Avenue which is getting up higher. Probably, I would not imagine I would be affected by noise up there. I would certainly hope not. And a lot of – I could probably avoid actually seeing the flyover by heading into town the other way. 5 [11.00 am]
CHAIRPERSON: You have got an alternative route.
10 MR HARTLEY: Yes. However I do not believe, in an urban environment, that we should be going that way. And I think Auckland is finding the same way. There is a place for flyovers and a place for big bridges. I do not know if NZTA did the one in Arthur’s Pass. That looks brilliant in its surroundings. However it would look absolutely gross here in the 15 middle of Wellington.
CHAIRPERSON: Do you recreate around this Basin much? Do you use it for recreation?
20 MR HARTLEY: I would say more passive recreation. I just tend to wander down if I hear a bit of noise and might watch a bit of rugby. I think I have watched the parliamentary rugby team actually having a game down here.
25 CHAIRPERSON: That would be as bad as the Basin flyover would it not?
MR HARTLEY: Yes. I can recall a match, seeing Conrad Smith when he actually did get a game for club rugby, scoring down on this ground. So it does, you know, get uses. But yes, I do walk a bit because it is an 30 easier area to walk.
MR BAINES: Conrad Smith versus Winston Peters, sounds a bit unfair.
MR HARTLEY: It definitely was not on the parliamentary game. 35 MR BAINES: Just to follow up on that, I mean, put simply, do you often come down Ellice Street?
MR HARTLEY: If I was going, well, by vehicle. 40 MR BAINES: By vehicle? Rather than walking.
MR HARTLEY: If I was say, heading north on a motorway, I would probably have a mix of both. I actually almost prefer the drive through town than 45 going around the bypass, but that is personal. If I am walking – when I was working, I always would catch the bus and walk up Ellice Street. It
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depends where I am heading, but if I was heading into say, Courtney Place, town, I would probably wander down Elizabeth Street. I very rarely ever, if I was driving, very rarely drive down Pirie Street because, particularly if you are travelling, where is it? South, because it 5 is difficult to get into the line if it as a busy time of the day. No problems for most of the day, but in heavy traffic, it can actually – you can miss a couple of sets of lights there because it is not well organised anyhow. And when you do get to the corner there is a solid line down in the right hand lane, and the other two lanes can be absolutely, totally 10 empty.
MR BAINES: Yes, I was thinking as much when you are walking around your neighbourhood, whether you walk down Ellice Street much?
15 MR HARTLEY: Yes.
MR BAINES: Occasionally?
MR HARTLEY: Yes, occasionally, it is – you know, it is one of these things, 20 you walk out the gate and I suppose if you are heading north, you are actually closer to your Elizabeth Street. And if you are heading up into Newtown or a sort of a middle area, you might use either one. I mean, I walk down Ellice if I was heading say, towards Cuba/ Taranaki Street. And I would go straight down and cross over the two Terraces then 25 wander up beside where the new tunnel is going.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr McMahon?
MR MCMAHON: No, thank you Mr Hartley. 30 MR COLLINS: Yes, that paragraph on your first page which is accidentally indented. You recall the one? We were talking about it before.
MR HARTLEY: Oh, yes. 35 MR COLLINS: It mentions ultimate plan for west to east traffic. And I was wondering whether you are talking there about – Vivian Street is currently through the city. That is the west to east. Were you thinking about some alternative to Vivian Street? Because that has come up 40 occasionally throughout the hearing.
MR HARTLEY: Yes, I was thinking really, of the whole thing, because this is just one intersection. We have got intersections all the way through when you come into – when you are heading east. So you strike 45 intersections at, oh – there is a Willis/ Victoria, Cuba/ Taranaki, Tory, there is intersections all the way through there. And then of course,
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really, there is an intersection where they have got to cross over the two Terraces, Cambridge/ Kent, even though they are doing a turn there. And then you have got basically all the same intersections if you’re going west, just a little bit further up. And this project is only really 5 looking at, you could say this one intersection, and it just seems that’s been all done in a little bit of isolation for not a major lot of gain.
[11.05 am]
10 If you were really wanting to tidy up all this traffic, there’s just so much more to look at. The Taranaki Street intersection, the traffic heads south, there can be a queue south that’s actually heading north at busy times of the day from the school or even later at the end of the day, there’s a major queue up there, in fact I would possibly avoid it at 15 certain times, it would be quicker to go around the Basin, even though that’s the one they’re going to fix up. Somebody going up Taranaki Street, there’s a very, very short time phase for the traffic that wants to turn right to get onto the bypass because they’ve cut them down so much because they’ve got to allow all the other traffic that’s coming 20 through to get it going both ways.
MR COLLINS: So are you suggesting that in the longer term Vivian Street’s not the right option and that maybe there should be something else? Because there was a suggestion, I think that came through in some 25 document that the city council had ambitions that someday Vivian Street would be returned to being a local road, now that traffic has got to go somewhere, so presumably the alternative would be to try and have a single corridor, and there is advantages and disadvantages of that. 30 MR HARTLEY: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Is that what you are thinking of, that in the longer term may be that is - - - 35 MR HARTLEY: Yes. I can’t believe that there isn’t sort of a more major plan somewhere, and in fact I did sort of wonder why when they were undergrounding the Memorial Park, why that possibly wasn’t widened at the time. I would have thought if there was a more major plan that it 40 would be probably going through that area, because the Terrace tunnel is already there, and the Mount Victoria tunnel is already there. I mean I’m not a traffic engineer so I don’t know where it should go, but just as a sort of a common sense thing I would have thought that’s probably the most likely place they would have put something. 45
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MR COLLINS: Okay. But you’re raising the issue that you can’t see a long term plan of the whole corridor that that’s concerning.
MR HARTLEY: No. 5 MR COLLINS: Okay. The second question I had was just about the spectator experience you mentioned at the Basin, and we have heard from various people about what the effect of the flyover would be and the Northern Gateway Building would be on various viewpoints, and we 10 have had visual simulations, particularly of the critical areas for batsmen and from the ground level down by the Reid gates and so on. And I think there was simulation also of the view from the top of the museum stand, which is no longer available because it’s out of action, but do you have an impression, as a spectator here, how would it affect 15 your experience if the flyover was built and the Northern Gateway was built as proposed?
MR HARTLEY: It will close in the ground you could say a little bit further, at present it’s quite unusual as a sports ground, which now what have that 20 most of it is embankment, there’s sort of quite a milling around there at the gateway. It actually is a little bit untidy and could do with a bit of landscaping, but I don’t think a building really is what it needs for landscaping, but it does provide a bit of a mill area. Then it just gives you the view of the space that makes the embankment look a little bit 25 longer than it actually is, because the embankment actually does finish roundabout where the building will be if it’s – I’m not sure if it’s 45 metres or thereabouts.
MR COLLINS: Okay. And in terms of actually seeing the flyover, I think the 30 inference is that you wouldn’t see it.
MR HARTLEY: I think it will definitely cut out some of the view of the flyover, depending where you are on the ground you may or may not see none. It’s possibly the Northern Gateway Building could cut more 35 of the view from inside the Basin, but then when you get outside the Basin it would be better if it wasn’t there. So I find it a bit difficult, I probably lean to the fact that I am outside the Basin more than I’m inside the Basin, therefore I would prefer that the Northern Gateway Building wasn’t there, because if you’re walking up the Terraces, or up 40 the middle it’s going to block it off, which is more of a lovely open vista more now.
One day we had lunch at an earlier day of the hearing, we sat the ground at the end where you come in the gate off Adelaide Road, and 45 you could actually see right down, straight through until of course you see the sea, which is not - - -
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MR COLLINS: I have heard lots about that.
MR HARTLEY: Yes. 5 MR COLLINS: Okay. Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
10 MR COLLINS: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you, Mr Hartley, thank you for taking your time to come and talk to use, we appreciate it.
15 MR HARTLEY: All right, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Now, our next, I think it’s Miss Jones?
MS JONES: Yes. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Shall we have our morning tea first.
MS JONES: That will be lovely.
25 CHAIRPERSON: And we’ll have you straight after morning tea, so you get prepared.
MS JONES: Thank you, your Honour. I will get a cuppa too.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
ADJOURNED [11.12 am]
RESUMED [11.33 am] 35 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, now we have Mr Pate, is that right?
MR PATE: Yes, Timothy or Tim.
40 CHAIRPERSON: You have been shoved up, but just a wee bit.
MR PATE: Yes, I am not going to take too long, so they put me up, I think that was the reason.
45 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you, Mr Pate, if you could just give us – for the record – your full name?
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MR PATE: I am Timothy John Pate.
CHAIRPERSON: And then we will hear your submission. 5 MR PATE: All right. Well, I understand my written submission has been read?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 10 MR PATE: And that I oppose the Basin flyover bridge in any shape or form. I was going to share two videos today and I will tell you about them, I have had technical difficulties downloading them and Facebook apparently does not want to let me to take them off their site. So these 15 are the only two videos I have and they kind of reflect that I am just a cricket lover for a long time.
The first is, I am at the Melbourne Cricket Ground and 65,000 people are there and Ricky Ponting has just scored a century and the crowd is 20 going nuts.
The second video is early this year, Brendon McCullum hits a four, backward point, full crowd, everyone is up standing on their feet. And it is just this euphoric feeling of people together. And so my 25 submission is more focused on people.
I mean I have read the stuff by Martin Snedden and the stuff saying, you know, “The flyover can spell the death of test cricket” and I am sure you have heard that and I want to re-litigate all his points. 30 [11.35 am]
And I am sure you have heard all the technical stuff about, you know, less people under 35 are driving and more people over 65 are driving 35 and they are almost at peak traffic and, you know, all the stuff about, you know, flyovers are from the fifties and they are not for a modern city.
And so I know you have heard all that stuff so I am going to make 40 more of a personal kind of reflection about, you know, the Basin for me.
And yes, you know, $90 million is a lot of money and – where am I going? I wanted to quote Henry Ford, actually. He said “You can buy 45 the Model T Ford in any colour as long as it was black”. And I think this reflects some of the narrow thinking around transport we have.
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Like, there are lots of reasons not to build it, but we are looking for the few reasons to build it.
Yes, so, for me this is not about cars or a bridge, it is about community 5 and people. Like, I moved to Wellington in ’98 and I started a job at a bank and I did not really know much about Wellington, but when I was a kid I watched on the TV Martin Crowe and Andrew Jones make a world record partnership and there has always been a romance about the Basin for me. And then moving to Wellington, coming with my 10 friends to watch domestic cricket, club cricket, you know, test cricket. And it has just been a time where people are together and even if you are not watching cricket you can come and hang out at the Basin.
I will often walk through or run – I have lived in Newtown for a long 15 time, now in Berhampore, and for me it is like, there is always people at the Basin, people sitting up on these steps, having a smoke, or in summer up on there having a picnic. So it is not all about cricket. It seems to be just a place we can come and actually get away from the traffic and the busyness of the city. 20 Yes, so people have picnics there. Often you would be running – I run through the Basin as well, when I do my run around the bays, and people will be having their weddings photos here, you know. So for me this is not really about cars or a bridge or that kind of stuff, and you 25 have heard all the technical stuff and eloquently by our last speaker on all those technical aspects of why not build the bridge. But I think it is more about community and people.
As my second video would show that I am here filming the Basin, 30 Brendon McCullum giving us 300, you know, I was trying to film it and I just ended up putting the phone in my pocket and not even filming. I am like, I am just, you know, high fiving my friends, giving them big hugs, you know “We were here and we saw it” and it was actually a great moment. And why I wanted to show that video because 35 it was right in that north-east corner?
CHAIRPERSON: South-east.
MR...... : South-east. 40 MR PATE: Where the flyover will go.
CHAIRPERSON: Oh, here, to here.
45 MR PATE Yes, right up there. And if we turned around, that is where the flyover would be. And we already hear traffic noises, which is fine. But
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I wonder, you know, I am cynical that that will not affect that part of the ground in terms of how much traffic noise you would hear enjoying watching the cricket up here.
5 Yes, and really, I do not really have much else to say, except that I oppose it and that I think we need to build our cities that are people- focused not car-focused and a flyover in an urban area is not really people-focused. I think it is fine, you know, for the motorway going up to Porirua and all this kind of stuff. But this is actually in the heart of 10 our city. And I am reminded of the Maori proverb – what is the most important thing? He tangata. He tangata. He tangata. It is people. It is people. It is people.
And this, as I have already said, this flyover bridge is a thing of the 15 past. Some cities, as you have probably heard, cities are now taking them down, they are getting rid of these flyovers. And I would also like to quote Upton Sinclair, his favourite quote of mine: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on him not understanding it”. And I think this is also kind of around the 20 transport kind of thinking. You know, this is our role is to build roads. But understanding why not to build them is also important and I would just like to finish by saying – it is people, it is people, it is people.
CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you, Mr Pate. Thank you very much for 25 coming and sharing your views with us. Are there any questions?
MR MCMAHON: That is very clear.
MR BAINES: No, not really, I have heard what you said and I have read that 30 submission and I think it sort of gives a perspective that, you know, you have advanced with some considerable passion. And I am happy to hear it.
[11.40 am] 35 MR PATE: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Pate. Ms Jones?
40 MS JONES: Can I do it here?
CHAIRPERSON: You can stay there, no, you can stay there. We will make an exception for you.
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MS JONES: Thank you very much, your Honour. I mean, I am so used to sort of seeing the Board from this perspective and you yourself so, you know, it is another change we would not want to introduce.
5 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MS JONES: Tena koutou, tena koutou, tena katoa. As you will see from the paper that Pip is kindly circulating, my representation will focus on my learnings from the Board hearings that we have had and I include for 10 reference previous statements I have made to the Board. Like my introduction when I was first cross-examining here, no, actually not here, back at Amora Hotel in February which, you know, seems a long time ago. And I have also included a summary of the points that I made in my original submission. I am happy to answer questions on anything 15 that we cover but you do not want to hear it all over again.
Now, during the times that I have been presenting or asking questions of expert witnesses, I have focused on the impact of the construction of the flyover on cricket because like Mr Pate before me, I have a 20 passionate dedication to cricket at the Basin. I have been coming here since I was a baby with my parents. My father, who was a district rep player, and my mother who was totally committed to cricket. So, there is within my family a really passionate concern that cricket be able to continue as wonderfully as it has been in the past. Not always perfect 25 but, you know, there is no potential if you cannot play the game here and that is part of my family’s heritage and Wellington’s heritage for all the different uses of the Basin Reserve for, as Mr Hartley talked about, the rugby that is played here and other events.
30 I have asked questions on the safety of children and teenagers. I have asked about impacts on construction noise disruption and also on impacts of the flyover. Some of my cross-examination of NZTA witnesses has been on how their processes were conducted and I would echo Ms Hampton’s presentation to the Board last week about the 35 feeling that the consultation was lip service only. And that questions were being asked not to really understand concerns but to try and find a way to knock down objections. And I also, like Mr Pate, echo the feeling that if paid staff are seeking only options within a very narrow range that is all that they will be looking at and that was the impression 40 that we got from the NZTA staff.
During the course of the hearings I have cross-examined or helped with questions for the following witnesses, Mr Rod James from NZTA on a range of issues including how the project would fit the objectives of the 45 project and about the impact on traffic. When I cross-examined Mr James I asked him, “is there anything in this proposal that would
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reduce the number of vehicles using the roads?” and “could you please point to these parts in evidence?” And to my recollection he could not actually identify anything in the Basin Bridge Proposal that would take a vehicle off the roads. 5 When we went to the objectives of the project which included improving the resilience, efficiency and reliability of the highway network providing relief for in congestion. All of this looks at a long- term use of the roading system, saying, “how many vehicles are using 10 the road and how is this going to be made easier?” There is two ways of improving flow. One is increasing the supply of road capacity, another is reducing the demand.
The flyover project does not reduce demand for use of the road and that 15 is part of the picture of congestion. I have heard from Dr O’Sullivan who presented yesterday, that she did not feel she made clearly enough the points about local traffic congestion as being something that the project would contribute to. And there is discussion of induced traffic, this is probably outside the scope of my ability to comment but it is just 20 that general area. That looking at what this project proposal says, does it actually make an improvement to traffic flows and how long would that improvement be?
[11.45 am] 25 Going on to other lessons from cross-examinations, Mr Blackmore for NZTA talked about decision-making processes and I did not get the impression from that that there was a wide consideration of alternatives. And that choice of a flyover or a flyover is as we have 30 heard from others, not really what we want. Megan Wraight talked knowledgeably about choices of plants and the landscape design and she was very focused and clear on her testimony. However, I did not warm to designs. I have not heard from anyone that I speak to in my many travels, and you have probably gathered I talk to a lot of people 35 and I listen, and they found the designs ugly.
They did not like the look of it, they did not see the point of many of them. Especially with things like the green screen structure, we heard yesterday from people who own one of those apartments, that it is not 40 what they want, it is not something they see the point of and they think it would create problems. I could go on about cricket but just take it as sort of, you know, I have a dedication to it not being affected negatively and I really feel that the noise from a flyover being so high and so close would impact on the cricket experience. Both for players 45 and for the people watching the cricket, you know.
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There is a difference between playing a practice game and actually playing in the atmosphere of people watching you and you are performing almost for your crowd. It makes it special and those of us who are keen sort of people in the audience can even look at marks 5 like, I have got a scar on my leg from where Chris Cairns hit a ball that came into the stands where I was sitting and I am proud of that scar. I mean, I know there are questions and Mr Cameron sort of said, “well, this whole thing, it is the end of cricket as we know”. Well, I found that personally hurtful and we have smoothed that over but I think the game 10 is bigger than individual issues that should be sorted out.
I cross-examined Mr Kenderdine on construction management and I heard his reassurance on communicating with the local community but I am also aware that he is not the person who makes all decisions on it. 15 He will, from what I heard, do the best of his ability within the scope he is given but that scope is something that really does need to be considered. Now, if somebody asks you, do you want to be killed by a firing squad, hanging or electric chair, your first is I do not want to be killed at all but then you get into the area. 20 So for me I am totally opposed to the flyover being built but if it were to be built then I would want the conditions about issues like noise, hours of work and communications with the local community to be really substantial and sort of give some surety about minimising the 25 impact on the local people. I understand that Ms Hampton on behalf of the Mount Victoria Residents Association has tabled some additional points for proposed conditions and from I have seen of those I endorse them as being a positive step forward.
30 And I very much would hope that there would be consideration of the impact of 180 nights minimum probably of work during 30 months of a project. Because we have heard, no project runs totally to plan and there will be times when, you know, even a plan for 180 nights which in the first year would probably 100 nights. That is like, one night out 35 of three would be disrupted, you know, it is a lot. So there would need to be a lot of reassurance that actual real mitigation would be offered to people and that is where for the communications working with a well- represented community reference group would be a great advantage to the local community having more surety in being heard. You know, 40 being heard in the process like this is really important.
And I mean, Mr Dravitzki, when he talked on noise, said that there was a lot of feeling that people suffered psychologically from fear of noise as well as misattributing it because of misinformation. 45
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[11.50 am]
Psychologically from fear of noise as well as misattributing it, because 5 of misinformation. Well, the way to deal with misinformation is to get accurate information, and that includes monitoring publicly accessible information, somebody to contact if there are issues. You know, it is linking up all of those different points into an actual plan that makes a bit more sense than what we have seen. I mean, what we have seen in 10 the construction management plan goes part of the way but not quite enough, in my view.
We heard yesterday from Doctor’s Black and O’Sullivan and Dr MacMillan on public health impacts, including noise, air quality, 15 pollution, health stress and anxiety, and mitigations. And that is, again, on the line of if the bridge goes ahead, then the conditions would need to be really responsive, and that there needs to be really adequate monitoring. But as I think Dr O’Sullivan says, or possibly Dr MacMillan, it is all very well monitoring a harm if there is nothing you 20 can do to stop the harm. You know, actually stopping problems before they start is far better than trying to fix them after they have happened.
We have heard earlier today from representatives from St Mark’s Church School and there was mention of the boisterous behaviour of 25 school boys, which, you know, kids will be kids, yes. But earlier during the process of the hearings, I raised the likelihood of objects being thrown from a footbridge onto the road below. And I reiterate that as being a foreseeable risk that really, is more likely to be avoided if there is not a bridge over a busy road, than if you put higher – warnings, ‘do 30 not throw things’, or talk to kids at school, or put a higher railway – no, sorry, a higher screen or handrail. Because anything that gets competitive, ‘can you throw something over that height?’ will sort of, you know, encourage the behaviour. So I do not think that can be avoided. 35 So that is through those things. As I have cited in my previous submission, I have concerns about the economic analysis where, in my view an from my questioning of Mr Jones, I did not get the impression there was enough weighting to the negative consequences, both of the 40 construction period and to the alternative choices. Nor I think, to the potential economic advantages of some of the alternative options, like Mr Reid’s and the other ones that are more green space and ground- level focussed. I mentioned transport sort of issues. I just want to reiterate the concerns that my cycling friends have made about their 45 preference for using the Basin as it is now, possibly with ground level sort of modifications, but not a flyover which they do not find to be
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friendly or supportive. And of course, the issues of what the construction phase would do.
And yes, just as a reflection back to Wellington for its heritage, its 5 appeal, all the rest of it. Putting a concrete bridge or flyover over another road where there is no river to cross, there is no canyon to bridge, we are not talking about a geographic need to actually get the traffic going over something. We have a tunnel going under, we have ground level, and then we have got another – putting something in the 10 middle of that, where it could be pristine – well, if money was put in, it could be pristine. It is still a green area at the moment.
And if we think about some of the European cities and the plaza areas and the improvements that they have made, which is taking down 15 flyovers and opening up structures more easily, would in the future be something that Wellington City Council or any other authority could look at. Issues like different types of buses, light rail at some stage. Talking to a local expert who was saying, getting the change for busses should be to smaller buses that are solar powered as they are starting to 20 introduce in Brazil and other countries around the world, as something to make it more flexible. There is different options for the future.
[11.55 am]
25 This is not an approach that really, is forward thinking. It is not going to improve things for Wellington City. Sorry, I probably do not need to go on at length about that area. So I will just leave it there and I am happy to answer questions.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much Ms Jones. You have given a lot of your time to this hearing which we appreciate. You may not have thought that at times when we may have interjected or whatever, but we do really appreciate you coming. And I would like to congratulate you on the manner of your presentation at all times, as I 35 think I said when you first got up, that a lot of young lawyers would like to emulate you in some ways. You missed your calling, I think. But we do appreciate it. Are there any questions?
MR BAINES: I think we probably asked all our questions in sort of, previous 40 sessions, really. So this has kind of pulled it all together, so I do not have any additional questions.
MS JONES: Well, if I could add then, just slightly, which I tend to do – I am sorry. And I have learnt a lot during the course of this, and I will try to 45 be concise. Just echoing Mr Teppett in a way, answering to one of your questions to him which was about the walking and use of the area. I do
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live in Ellice Street, I do walk down and across, I do come to this space from time to time. I also see my friends coming here. My friend, Summit, comes to the Basin, he rides here on a cycle, he writes poetry in the ground and then continues on. This is a great place if you have 5 had a fight with somebody or whatever, for just coming and having a chill-out space and, you know, it has got good atmosphere. It has got good feeling.
But also, my son who attended Wellington High School has been 10 walking down Ellice Street across the area to the High School every day for the last five years. Sometimes he did not come on the Sunday, and is now of course, taking a similar route to get to university. In my running days, not so much recently, but I intend to pick it up again, it would be more running up the area because my route would be over the 15 top of the green track around, sort of, through near town and coming back through his area. So lots of really engaged sort of use of this space.
But also, saying hi to the people walking their dogs up on the tracks, 20 the people sort of cycling through, because in New Zealand, we are two degrees of separation, Wellington, one. So it is really great to actually be able to sort of bump into people and see them. So I am just throwing that in.
25 MR BAINES: Right, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much Ms Jones. Thank you again. Now who have we got next? We have got – oh, we have got a break next according to this. Ah, Ms Matheson, Rachel Matheson? Yes, 30 come forward Ms Matheson. Now, you did not actually make a submission yourself, your sister did, is that right?
MS MATHESON: That is correct, yes.
35 CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well if you could just speak into the microphone and give your full name and say who you are representing.
MS MATHESON: So I am Anne Matheson, and I am representing my sister Rachel Matheson who is opposed to the flyover and felt sufficiently 40 strongly that she wanted someone to come and submit on her behalf.
CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.
MS MATHESON: So what she has to say is his. My husband and I are the 45 owners of apartment 10 at 80 Kent Terrace. We now live with our young family in the UK and the apartment is rented out. Our apartment
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is on the fifth floor of the Grandstand apartment building and has a view directly over the Basin Reserve, from large windows in both the living room and one of the two bedrooms. When we bought the apartment in 2004, we were attracted to two features in particular. The 5 view over the Basin Reserve and front balcony where we enjoyed many happy summer evening barbecues when we were in residence. Although the apartment was an easy walk to the city, it felt in many ways like an escape from city life. With the Basin’s wide expansive green on one side and the balcony providing fresh air and outdoor 10 space on the other.
The fact that the apartment is five floors up from the traffic of Kent Terrace was also a major contributing factor to the apartment feeling like a peaceful haven. The Basin Bridge will destroy two of our 15 apartment’s best features, the view over the Basin Reserve and the front balcony.
[12.00 pm]
20 The increase in traffic noise will mean that it will no longer be enjoyable to sit out on the balcony or have the balcony doors open into the living room. And the Bridge itself and its green wall will obscure our view of the Basin Reserve.
25 While owner/occupiers will be stuck with the noise and dust from the construction, as well as the inconvenience of having major road works outside their homes, anyone who is renting an apartment in that building has the option of finding somewhere else to live. Given that the construction period is estimated to be between two and three years, 30 I expect our current tenants to move out, and I fully expect that we will have great difficulty finding another tenant.
It’s not an exaggeration to say that we are very concerned that our apartment will be empty for the entire period of construction, and 35 extremely difficult to rent out afterwards. We believe that given the amount of rental accommodation available in Wellington City, no one will choose to live next to such a large construction site, and later a noisy unsightly flyover when there are plenty of over choices available to them. 40 We rely on the rental income from the apartment to pay our mortgage. Without adequate rental income the property will be a significant financial burden to us. We are seriously concerned that we will find ourselves in a situation where we can’t find a tenant and we can’t sell 45 the apartment either.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7850
The air quality around the bridge will get 24 percent worse according to an expert who spoke at this hearing earlier this year. I apologise, I haven’t been able to find his name again, looking through the transcripts, but he spoke either late in March or early in April. 5 Anyway, he predicts levels of nitrogen dioxide in the air will increase by 25 percent by 2021, compared to if no changes were made to the roading. But this is apparently insignificant.
I disagree with this assessment wholeheartedly, nitrogen dioxide is an 10 air pollutant and associated with decreased lung function and respiratory problems. The World Health Organisation rates air pollution as the single greatest environmental health threat, it’s not something you just want to increase by 25 percent in a residential area.
15 Traffic noise will also increase. While NZTA has said that for the most part this increase will not be more than 5 decibels, it said this with the caveat that for buildings closest to the flyover it would be difficult to keep to this limit, and in our case it is not just that a greater volume of traffic may result in increased traffic noise, it’s the fact that the road is 20 raised up alongside the building and therefore closer to our apartment than before.
You don’t have to be a noise pollution expert to realise that when you raise the road up to the second floor of a building the traffic noise will 25 be worse for the residents on the upper floors compared to when the road was at ground level. Not to mention utterly unbearable for the residents of the second floor.
NZTA has recognised that the project will cause significant noise 30 pollution and nuisance to the residents of our building and has therefore offered the Body Corporate a contribution towards partial double glazing. We felt that this was quite inadequate, both because of the proximity of our building to the bridge, just eight metres at the closest point, and because NZTA was only offering to pay for double glazing 35 to the building’s original windows. Both our living room and the master bedroom contain larger non-original windows that would not be double-glazed.
There seemed little point having some windows with double glazing if 40 other windows in the same room had none at all, no sound proofing effect would be achieved.
It is particularly unfair to expect the apartment owners to pay towards the cost of double glazing at a time when the project would in fact be 45 reducing the value of their apartments, and making it extremely difficult to rent them out.
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I realise that my situation doesn’t sound as bad as that of someone whose apartment is actually there home, and in a way that’s true. If I was living in Wellington I would obviously suffer every day from the 5 noise and pollution caused by the bridge. Now I apologise, in this next paragraph there’s slight words out of order. However, although we live in the UK we have always planned to return to New Zealand. What is stopping us doing this right now is the financial burden we are expecting the apartment to become once the Basin Bridge project gets 10 underway.
We can probably just about struggle by while we’re earning pounds, but once we return to New Zealand we won’t be able to pay the mortgage on the apartment unless we live in it, and I really don’t like 15 the idea of putting my children to sleep in a room that is eight metres from a flyover.
[12.05 pm]
20 A recent article in the Dominion Post stated that building work would occur at night or some 181 nights during the construction period. 181 sleepless nights over a two and half year period equates to six months, or one in every five nights.
25 It also states that an example of the kind of work that would have to be done at night is moving steel beams, which is likely to be very loud indeed.
When asked whether he would like to be living in the Grandstand 30 Apartments, the closest residential building to the flyover during construction, Duncan Kenderdine, the Project’s Manager said “there is no doubt at times it would quite challenging, and that’s one of the things we’ve got to work through. If you’re on the third or fourth level and you look west our construction will potentially be disruptive.” 35 We’re on the fifth level and we look west, so our tenants will definitely move out, and my question to the NZTA is this – at what point will NZTA accept that the construction of this bridge has directly caused financial hardship for ourselves and numerous others? Does it take six 40 months of our apartments being empty, a year, or will you wait until the apartments are actually being repossessed before you admit that this project should never have been given the green light? You simply shouldn’t be able to build a major flyover eight metres from a residential building unless you buy the building outright. If you’re not 45 prepared to do that then it’s time to walk away.
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Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much, Ms Matheson. I am sure your sister will be proud of you for giving this submission on her 5 behalf, she will be pleased. Is there any questions?
MR BAINES: Well I’m just wondering, is there any point in asking questions – I mean the only question I had was – you made a point there about particular windows and saying that they would not be part of any 10 double glazing, and I do not understand why they would not be part of any double glazing. Do you know the answer to that question?
MS MATHESON: I think it’s because they’re not original.
15 MR BAINES: Is there something in the condition that says they have to be original windows?
MS MATHESON: Apparently. So I believe.
20 MR BAINES: Okay. Well we can look at that in detail. Thank you.
MR COLLINS: I guess there’s been no negotiations with NZTA about buying the property, has there been any attempt to say buy it?
25 MS MATHESON: Certainly my sister was in Wellington last November, and she and her solicitors had a meeting with the NZTA solicitors, so I believe they have been in discussion about whether there are other options.
30 MR COLLINS: So that would be her preference to simply sell it?
MS MATHESON: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Okay, thank you. 35 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much Ms Matheson, thank you for your assistance.
MS MATHESON: Thank you. 40 CHAIRPERSON: And Ms Kane?
Good morning Ms Kane?
45 MS KANE: Good afternoon.
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CHAIRPERSON: It is, you’re right, its 10 past 12 my goodness. First of all thank you for coming, and could you just say your full name for the record and then we’ll hear your submission.
5 MS KANE: My name is Patricia Agnes Kane and I’ve come to talk on an opposition to the flyover, and proposition to proposal.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
10 MS KANE: Thank you. Mine is only two pages, it will be quite short, and I think Mr Hartley actually covered all my points in great detail, I almost went home then.
CHAIRPERSON: Well, no we want to hear what you have to say. 15 MS KANE: Mine’s a little bit different, but not very different.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, good, thank you.
20 MS KANE: Anyway, I was going to say personal background and then my reasons for opposing the proposal, and if you want questions, and I’m not an expert in any sense, so I’m not sure any questions would be very useful.
25 CHAIRPERSON: Whereabouts do you live?
MS KANE: Well I live over on the Te Ahumairangi, over there, which used to be Tinakori Hill.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MS KANE: I have a lovely view of the Basin and Government House, the Carillon, and the flyover would very visible from where I live, you can see right over to Cook Strait and up to the Tararua’s, it’s a lovely, lovely 35 spot, which I hope to stay in in the meantime.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
MS KANE: And it is partly town belt, which is lovely because I have a dog 40 and I walk him up there, which is very nice as well. But I do have slight early connections with Ellice Street, my best friend and her cousin lived in this area, and when I came to Wellington from Masterton in my youth we used to play here, and my friend’s cousin, Mary, was a real daredevil and she would say “stand up in the tram 45 going around the Basin Reserve and don’t hold on” – well I never managed that feat, but she was very, very - - -
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[12.10 pm]
But I was born in Wellington, I was born in Ghuznee Street, in the 5 original house of that town acre, which had become the Harris Maternity Hospital in 20s and 30s, and up and through to the 40s it was still there, which puts my age pretty well. And then I lived in the Gordon Wilson flats looking over there, the first inhabitant of that flat which are now of course closed, because there are too old or decrepit or 10 something. But it was a lovely spot to live. It was handy. But before that, when I left school I came back to live in Wellington in Newtown, I used to ride my bicycle to university. Up Ghuznee Street, I pushed it quite a lot of the way with no gears, of course. But whizzed down avoid the tram tracks. It was a very cheaper way of getting to university than 15 the trams. But they were there if I needed them, the ones coming over Constable Street.
And then when I did get married, I went to work in Stout Street and we lived in the Gordon Wilson flats and I used to ride my bicycle up the 20 Terrace and freewheel down, as long as it was not a northerly, in which case I had to pedal. And I would come back Ghuznee Street way to get home again. So that was, you know, a very good way because I had always ridden bikes in Masterton in my youth because it was very flat, of course. But my son, I am glad to say one of them, rides a bicycle 25 from Newtown to work, and his adult daughter who lives out that way too, does the same. And they find that a very good way of getting around, and are very glad that the council are now going to put money towards making safer cycling. Because it is not very safe on narrow streets when there is cars right next to bicycles as I am sure you are 30 aware.
I do not want to actually read this but I have to look. After I raised my five children and I was a librarian, I went to Europe to travel and work. And I lived for nine years in Nice. I do prefer Wellington to Nice I 35 must say. But they had a good public transport system, and just as I was leaving, they put in a beautiful silver tram to go up – oh, sorry – the main avenue and out to some of the suburbs. It is just a beautiful, quiet vehicle. And they put that in in recent years. And Marcie and Strasbourg and other places have trams as well now, they have brought 40 them in. Electric trams are the way to go in small, congested cities. They are not much bigger than Wellington. And I really think that – and I am glad that the council have protected the Constable Street bit from Newtown to Kilbirnie for a possible light rail in the future, because I think that is really the way to go. We have got the 45 opportunity to do something if we do not build flyovers and spend all this taxpayer’s money on them.
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And also, I used trams to go round Europe, because they are very efficient and you would not take a car to drive around. You can hop on and off trains and they were not hellishly expensive. And they are just 5 really efficient and a good way of travel. And I am really sorry that we have let our rail system run down.
Well, I came back in 1997. I can see the Basin Reserve, as I say. Now my reasons for declining this proposal, as I put in my original 10 submission, is it will not work. It is a piecemeal approach to roads to national importance. It starts at what? Levin or somewhere, and goes to the airport? This bit, with a flyover, seems a really odd choice to put it in like this because will it not just shift congestion up to a one-lane tunnel? Or two-lane, two-way tunnel. And if another tunnel going to be 15 in the immediate future I do not know, I have not heard what the latest is, but it was not for a long time. So it will just shift the congestion, which is not anything compared to Auckland’s congestion I might add, just shift it a bit further along. Saving of about a minute I say, on this part of the proposal. And it costs $90,000,000. It does not seem good 20 economics to me and I am not an economist, but I am a taxpayer.
And I am surprised – I did not put this in my written sub – that when the government said we want the Memorial Gardens for ANZAC Day next year, why they did not see whether they could tie some these 25 proposals onto that in some way. Maybe not a tunnel right under the Basin, but some way of managing that Vivian Street bit right along, which is a real mess if you are a pedestrian, trying to cross over there is just a nightmare, and Ghuznee Street. It is just a silly way to have a main road going through the middle of town. So I must say, going back 30 to Nice, their motorway goes around the north of the town, on big flyovers across valleys of course, but it is way out of sight of the town, and out of the immediate traffic. And that is the way they build roads more in Europe. Not through the middle of towns, you know, it seems a no-brainer to me. 35 [12.15 pm]
But while I say it will not work, and that it is a piecemeal approach and it is a bit of a joke. Except it is an expensive joke, it seems to me. 40 And the second reason is that more efficient and workable solutions were not really considered, as has been said many times at this Enquiry already, they really did not do good peer review. The peer reviews said why did you not look at an at-grade solution which would be cheaper 45 and easier to implement without so much disruption to the people living around here? And they really discarded them in favour of option
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7856
A or option B which was a flyover here or a flyover there, which does not seem a good choice to me. And I am glad that the citizens of Wellington agreed that it was not a good choice and that will come out in their hundreds anyway. And I think perhaps, NZTA did not expect 5 that. They thought it would slip past, but it has not, and I hope it will not go ahead.
I think the other solutions have been canvased quite extensively in this Enquiry. Richard Reid and associates, and others, and the latest 10 development is called the Basin Reserve roundabout enhancement option. BRREO. And ‘brio’ means lively in Italian, I think that would be a very good solution. But I do that in place of building more roads, a comprehensive public transit, rapid transit, public service is needed. Using the new technology now available for trolley and electric buses – 15 and solar buses too, which has been alluded to – and I am glad that the WCC are going to protect that passage from Newtown to Kilbirnie.
I think the third reason is that carbon emissions are likely to increase. If you build a road, people will say, right, there is a road, I will get my car 20 on it. And they do not realise there is a lot of congestion and it is not a very healthy thing to do. I think we need a city that is people-centred and easy to move around on foot, or bicycle, or public transport. And we are lucky that the central city and some of the suburbs are quite flat. They are not all up on Kilburn and Northland where I live, though even 25 the trams used to go up to Northland in the early days, before my time.
I think that single-occupancy cars as a commuting option are no longer viable nor desirable. In view of climate change issues, which seems to be a most urgent question facing development in any country in the 30 world, we have to reduce our carbon emissions. And any responsible government, whether national or local, has an absolute obligation to our country and the world in this matter. And there is a wee note at the bottom if you read – we are up to half of what we think we think we can go up to in terms of warming, and we have all seen the terrible 35 storms and floods and whatever that have happened, in this country and round the world as a result of almost 1 degree of warming. So 2 percent? And they think it could 3 or 4 because people are not taking steps enough to cut emissions, it would be a country or a world I would not like to live in. And I will very likely not be here, but I have children 40 and grandchildren who will.
And the heritage and health concerns, I am just touching on them, they have been covered. But the Basin would be seriously damaged as a world class cricket venue and as a place of recreation in the city that 45 was gifted to the city a long time ago. And I think the existence of St Joseph’s Catholic Church where some of my family and I worship
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would be, in fact, destroyed. And I am really surprised to hear that the church have withdrawn from opposition. I would have to find out what they are doing about that, because I do not agree with it. And the doctors yesterday - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON: You will have to talk to the Bishop.
MS KANE: I will. He is a Bishop that knows everyone’s names, so I can do that without any fear or – he is a very nice man. The doctors, I think 10 yesterday, and others, have alluded to the health hazards, especially with two secondary schools, St Mark’s and Clyde Quay not far away. Children crossing hazardous roads, they do not seem to have thought that through very well, and the dangers of throwing things over the flyover too as Ms Jones alluded to. 15 So in conclusion, I believe that serious flaws in the planning process and costings of the proposal, and its failure to meet its objectives have been exposed comprehensively during this long and careful enquiry. I therefore ask the Board to refuse consent to such an ill thought out and 20 outdated proposal, or at the very least, to send the proposal back to NZTA for a detailed peer reviewed assessment of the other alternatives put forward at this enquiry. Thank you.
[12.20 pm] 25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you very much indeed, Ms Kane. Are there any questions?
MR BAINES: No, thank you for your personal perspective in the context of 30 all the technical stuff we have heard already. It is helpful to hear from your perspective, thank you very much.
MS KANE: And I might say my cycling son gave a thing here last week. His name is Patrick Morgan and I admire him very much. Yes, so there you 35 are, it is in the families. So, thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, we do appreciate you coming as I have said many times. We want to hear from those people who are affected. Thank you. Now, we next have Michael Evans, Michelle 40 Evans, is it? Micheline Evans. Could Ms Evans come forward?
DISCUSSION
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, welcome along Ms Evans. 45 MS EVANS: Thank you.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7858
CHAIRPERSON: If you could just give you name for the record.
MS EVANS: I am Micheline Evans. 5 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and if you could now give us your presentation.
MS EVANS: Sure. Ka tangi te titi, ka tangi te kaka, Ka tangi hoki ko au. (NDISTINCT 2.08) nga mihi, oraho (ph 2.10), kia koutou (ph 2.11). 10 As the titi calls, as the kaka calls, so call do I. Warm greetings to you all. The Basin Bridge is an inadequate solution to Wellington’s traffic congestion problems. It will be an eyesore, it will be noisy and it will be dirty. It will increase carbon emissions and I am not convinced that the savings in travel time will be worth the financial, environmental 15 and social costs of this project.
I often cycle through the Basin to work. Cycling through Newtown is quite a harrowing experience. One must negotiate a pathway through buses, in traffic; it definitely gets your adrenaline pumping. I think you 20 have to have quite a strong constitution to be a Wellington cyclist. So it is such a relief to get to the Basin. It is beautiful, it is quite, it is a refuge from the traffic. On summer days it is really nice to see people sitting out on the grassy bank in the afternoon soon. I would also just like to echo what Ms Jones said about being a good spot after a fight. I 25 have experienced that and it is a lovely space to have in the city.
The Basin Bridge will completely change the atmosphere of the Basin. It will increase traffic noise and fumes and it will ruin the outlook as far as I am concerned. At the moment the Basin Reserve is a quiet refuge 30 from the hustle and bustle from the centre city. A place where one can collect oneself before entering the CBD or relax on the way home from work. If the Basin Bridge is built, the Basin will no longer be this quiet refuge.
35 I would like to live in a city which is future focused. The Basin Bridge is going to encourage more people to travel by car into the city. Considering climate change and the ongoing rise in petrol prices, this is backwards thinking. I understand that the New Zealand Transport Agency anticipates that the Basin Bridge will reduce journey time for 40 buses and improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians. However, if the proposed 75 to 100 million dollars was spent on improving public transport, walking and cycling routes into the city, much greater gains could be made without ruining the urban landscape of the city or encouraging more people to drive. 45
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Traffic congestion could also be improved for people who actually needed to drive. I am not sure also how the Basin Bridge will improve travel time for buses as buses tend to move fairly quickly when traveling from the east of the city into the CBD and vice versa using the 5 bus tunnel. The Basin Bridge will not improve anything for those buses.
[12.25 pm]
10 The Basin Bridge is backward thinking. Despite the dangers, the hills and the wind, almost 4,000 people commute by bicycle in Wellington. About 17 percent of us also take public transport. Both of these figures have grown in the last 15 years. This is where the bulk of our investment should be going. A little clip-on on the side of the flyover 15 does not adequately address the growing demand for alternative transport options. As a regular commuter through the Basin Reserve I am concerned about the particular pollution that is likely to be spread from the Basin Bridge, both to commuters passing through and to the children that I teach at Clyde Quay School in Mount Victoria. 20 I am not convinced that the Basin Bridge will improve traffic congestion significantly in Wellington. 90 seconds worth of time saving is not significant enough to warrant that sort of spending. If you make more space for cars, cars will fill that space. To reduce traffic 25 congestion we need a forward thinking approach that provides incentives for choosing sustainable transport options over cars.
The Northern Corridor Roading Project does not fit the vision for a people-centred, forward thinking and beautiful city that I would like to 30 live in. Our city should be focused on people. People’s health and people’s wellbeing, not on cars. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you very much. Where do you live?
35 MS EVANS: I live in Kilbirnie.
CHAIRPERSON: And you work?
MS EVANS: In Mount Victoria most of the time. 40 CHAIRPERSON: In Mount Victoria. Yes, so you come through the Basin quite regularly?
MS EVANS: Yes, so if I am in a hurry I come through the tunnel but I prefer 45 not to come through the tunnel. It is pretty awful to bike through there. So, yes, when I am running on time I would come through the Basin.
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CHAIRPERSON: And so what other route do you take?
MS EVANS: I will ride through Newtown. 5 MR BAINES: Constable Street, is it?
MS EVANS: Yes.
10 MR BAINES: So, you are saying in that commuter experience whether you are cycling or whether you are taking public transport, there is a real difference between those sections of that trip and you distinguish the experience in the Basin Reserve section from the experience in other sections of that trip. I think is what you told us, isn’t it? 15 MS EVANS: Absolutely. It is just that time that you can go, I can actually enjoy my ride, you know? Yes.
MR BAINES: Yes. 20 MR BAINES: And the other message you seem to be emphasising is your preference for the balance between investments in different modes. You are saying at the moment the bridge seems to be giving priority to investing in cars rather than other things. 25 MS EVANS: Yes.
MR BAINES: And you would like to see that changed?
30 MS EVANS: Yes, absolutely.
MR BAINES: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you very much indeed for coming. I know 35 you and a lot of other people had to arrange to get off work and all sorts of things to come here and I know it is not easy and it is difficult. And we do really understand that and we appreciate it. Thank you for coming.
40 MR BAINES: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Now the next one is Peter Skrzynski. Yes, welcome along Mr Skrzynski.
45 MR SKRZYNSKI: No documents, no.
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CHAIRPERSON: No documents and if you could just tell us your name for the record and let us hear what you have to say.
MR SKRZYNSKI: Peter Skrzynski, I appear before as you a born and bred 5 Wellingtonian and a former pupil at St Patrick’s College, the old St Patrick’s College and user of the historic crèche when it was our school library and in fact one of the previous submitters this morning was the school librarian.
10 CHAIRPERSON: Is that right?
MR SKRZYNSKI: Ms Kane.
CHAIRPERSON: She never told us that. 15 MR SKRZYNSKI: And I am a long time resident of Hataitai and generally I commute by motorcycle. So generally I do not have a problem with traffic queues.
20 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, no, they are very handy in congested parts of the city, aren’t they?
[12.30 pm]
25 MR SKRZYNSKI: So, I am opposed to the Basin Flyover Proposal and I am opposed to the road of National Party significance from Levin to the airport and in 2011 the Buckle Street to Cobham Drive proposal was publicised and we got the brochure in the mail, which asked us if we preferred flyover A or flyover B. And I think NZTA seem to have 30 predetermined an outcome and then conducted their consultation on that basis. And some of their – as has already been noted during the hearing – some of their economic and traffic analyses has been biased towards presenting the flyover option as the best solution.
35 And I think it is the wrong solution to a perceived problem. The congestion, I think, in Wellington is nowhere near as bad as other cities internationally and even compared to Auckland. Personally, I would support an at-grade solution such as the BRREO, or even a grade- separated solution such as a modified Option X or the Option T I think 40 with the trenching of Sussex Street.
And that is really all I have got to say. I would like to request that the Board decline the NZTA application and suggest that they go back to the drawing board and start again. And I would like to thank the Board 45 for making the effort to accommodate individual submitters and the
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various groups that are opposed to this proposal. So that is all, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you very much, Mr - - - 5 MR SKRZYNSKI: Skrzynski.
CHAIRPERSON: Skrzynski.
10 MR SKRZYNSKI: A good Polish name.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is. It is easy to say, but difficult to read. Yes, thank you for coming. We do appreciate you coming and I have said this everyone, but we do want to hear from you. I mean, you are the people 15 that live in the area and you are the people that are affected and we want to know what you think. And that is why we are making time to ensure that everyone is given an opportunity to come.
MR SKRZYNSKI: Okay, thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MS...... : (INDISTINCT 3.18) has been our second longest participant.
25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I know. Yes, the lady with the grey hair. She is very obvious. I can see you because in the dark it stands out. Standing up here you cannot really see very well down there, but you have stood out each time. Yes, we will have her now, shall we?
30 MS GIRLING: If that is okay, sir, it is just.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MS GIRLING: - - - because we were due to have lunch break about now and I 35 do not believe our next submitter has arrived as yet. - - -
CHAIRPERSON: No.
MS GIRLING.: - - - So, we were just wondering whether Mrs Swann was 40 ready to - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
MR...... : Has this finished? 45 MR...... : Margaret Tobin.
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MR...... : Tobin?
MR...... : Is it? 5 MR...... : Margaret Tobin?
MR...... : Margaret Tobin?
10 MR...... : Is this Margaret Tobin or?
CHAIRPERSON: Pardon?
MR...... : Is this Mrs Tobin? 15 CHAIRPERSON: No, no, this is Mrs Swann, is it?
MR...... : Swann, okay.
20 MR...... : I do not see that.
MR...... : Swann.
MR...... : Oh, it is a (INDISTINCT 4.17) 25 MRS SWANN: Can I get my cushion?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well, welcome back or welcome along again, Mrs Swann. 30 MRS SWANN: Well, I am just laughing.
CHAIRPERSON: As the hearing manager said, you are the second longest participant of the hearing other the lady sitting over there. 35 MRS SWANN: Well, I can actually say that since I have been coming here I have discovered I am as old as the tunnel.
CHAIRPERSON: Well, there you are. You learn something, do you not? 40 MRS SWANN: So that is why I have got the grey hair.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
45 MRS SWANN: But as a girl I ran through that tunnel years ago, - - -
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CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes.
MRS SWANN: - - - and I sort of brought along my old school magazines, because I used to go to the old tech. 5 [12.35 pm]
But I want to thank you today and actually before I start – is he still here, I would like to claim him as my grandson? 10 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MRS SWANN: Because I showed him one of my treasures which I want to give some time to the Basin Reserve Museum and I hope they do it up. 15 But there is Dallas Compton, Leonard Hutton and these are old cigarette cards.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
20 MRS SWANN: I do not smoke and I do not know who gave them to me, but they are a great treasure to me.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
25 MRS SWANN: And I cannot give them to him because my son would kill me.
CHAIRPERSON: They are all the names of the past, are they not? - - -
30 MRS SWANN: Yes, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: - - - Hutton and - - -
MRS SWANN: And as you have seen, I have been – Philippa has given you, I 35 have been making – this is not the first time I have been here. I have been 2009 April to the Regional Transport Committee I made a submission. August 2011 Cobham Drive to Buckle Street I made a submission. And now today, Environment Protection last year I made it, so here I am again. But as I start off by saying, my husband is 40 playing golf, of course, but he totally supports this.
CHAIRPERSON: He does not know you are here probably?
MRS SWANN: Yes, he does know I am here, because I had to get him to 45 fiddle around - - -
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CHAIRPERSON: He has been wondering where you have been sneaking away to.
MRS SWANN: No. Though I rushed home yesterday and put the dinner in 5 the oven so I could get back in time when he came home from golf. But he is just - - -
MR BAINES: You did not choose the short straw today, did you?
10 MRS SWANN: He is a Cromwell boy. And he is also, well, he loves Wellington, too, and we have lived overseas, we have lived in Auckland twice, which is a nightmare, although my father an Aucklander. And we have lived in the Philippines and we have lived in London. And we have travelled a lot. But Wellington is our home and 15 we do not want to leave it. And we do not want this monstrosity here. And I laughed, because when he was talking about rugby it used to be Athletic Park, as we know, it was our rugby ground and this was our soccer ground, so, there we go.
20 But I will start – well, what I started to officially say. Having attended a number of sessions of this hearing my husband is a long retired member of the community prefers to play golf, but is still totally opposed to this bridge flyover and I am not convinced by the witness statements that this bridge is listed as the number two transport priority 25 for the region. A rating we consider without justification.
We are of the opinion that this massive concrete flyover – I refuse to call it a bridge – will have a disastrous effect on our iconic sports ground, the Basin Reserve, because of the noise, dust and gross visual 30 and atmospheric pollution it will create. The vibration from traffic at that height – and I was interested yesterday, because I think it was Dr Black that did not think there would be much vibration, but I can imagine what having travelled around Thorndon and I was pleased to see Mr Hartley’s pictures of the flyover at the Thorndon end of 35 Thorndon Quay and that is a nightmare. There are lovely shots down there, but you come out of there and there is this ugly monstrosity with graffiti, et cetera.
The vibration from traffic at that height would forever degrade the 40 atmosphere within and around the oldest cricket ground in New Zealand and considered by many as one of the 10 finest in the world. Even Fran Wilde in a press release August 17, 2012 is quoted as saying “The Basin will always be a precious green space in the city. We need to make sure its special character is retained through a robust 45 consulting process”.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7866
As a Wellingtonian-born and bred I grew up in Lyall Bay in Rongotai and after our basketball and our netball at Hataitai we used to love to walk through the tunnel to watch the soccer boys at the Basin. I have so many memories of the Basin Reserve with pipe and brass band and 5 marching girls’ competitions, soccer as well as cricket, so used all around and wonderful concerts. There have been many references that the flyover would ruin the chance of a fine boulevard.
And in April 2009 a music critic wrote in a local paper “Let’s hope the 10 flyover does not eventuate” – this is 2009 – “as it will totally ruin the Basin as a music venue”. Many of us have questioned many times why this venue is not used all around and hope that the Council is giving this serious consideration.
15 [12.40 pm]
As an Old Girl of the Wellington Technical College we had our school sports there. I’ve even got a photo of three boyfriends in their running gear. If you’re really interested. We had our school sports and 20 intercollegiate sports and I was a cricketer coached at the Boys’ Institute. The word “girl” was only added many years later I might add and by Eric Tindall and Jack Lameson, but we played at the Prince Wales in Tamara Crescent but on the rare occasion but sadly never the Basin. 25 However, eventually women cricketers were finally allowed to play there shown in one of Don Neely’s Basin book. I have great memories of my heroes Denis Compton, Mammoth (INDISTINCT 1.05) Hart and Alec Bedser and to this place still proudly own Players’ cigarette 30 cards which I showed you before. And some of them with other memorabilia reluctant to give to the Basin Trust until there is an assurance that this Museum Stand will be strengthened and restored.
The Basin grounds including the caretaker’s old cottage and player 35 facilities have been sadly neglected and need upgrading and repair of the closed Museum Stand, but this is not mentioned in the plans by the NZTA or the Basin Trust and we understand that the proposed new pavilion provides no additional spectator space but limited to members only. We also understand that the NZTA proposes to acquire a 40 significant portion of the Basin Reserve land in violation of the Basin Reserve’s trust so that they can build the mitigation structure.
This would however mean that NZTA controlled any use of land of land and buildings and could use the land at any time for further road 45 expansion. Attached on the back of your copy there is a copy of the application of property within the Basin Reserve which is very
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7867
concerning. We understand that the City Council and Basin Reserve Trust are still in discussion over the state of these neglected buildings.
We do not believe the project will deliver significant benefits to car 5 drivers or public transport users. In our 2011 submission I made mention of having to visit Wellington Hospital every day for nearly a week and at different times of the day travelling from the north, along the waterfront in Kent and returning via Cambridge, and at no stage did I experience any lengthy delays, even around the Basin Reserve 10 between 8.45 and 9.00. Even with the school buses. Similarly in the late afternoon.
I would agree with Mr Foster who I heard at the beginning of this that the traffic lights keep the traffic moving and just recently I was going 15 to Island Bay. The route I generally take is up Taranaki, Wallis to John Street, joining Adelaide Road. But decided to test the Basin Reserve route despite the fact that a cricket test was on. No problem. Took my turns at the green lights. Similarly at the writers’ week at the Festival of Arts, most of which was held at the Embassy Theatre I had little 20 difficulty in moving up and down Kent and Cambridge Terrace.
As residents in Wadestown and Wilton we have to allow 5 to 10 minutes more between 8.00 to 9.00 in the morning if we want to travel across Tinakori Road from Park to Murphy and Mulgrave Streets into 25 the city. And might I add here that we avoid going through the new tunnel, the Karo Drive. That is the biggest waste of rate and taxpayers money because it has not improved the access so we prefer to go along the waterfront to wherever we want to go. Be it Kilbirnie or whatever. We just find that Vivian Street is a real pain the neck when you come 30 off the tunnel there. Karo Drive has been just a total waste.
If we want to travel across Tinakori Road from Park to Murphy and Mulgrave Streets into the city and can imagine the uproar if there was a suggestion of a flyover to save a few minutes. We have total sympathy 35 and support for the Mount Cook, Mount Victoria, Newtown and southern suburbs and we do not believe this structure will save more than minutes at the busy time of the day.
[12.45 pm] 40 As for the airport this flyover is coming from the eastern suburbs and I have just recently been to Auckland and the traffic build ups are horrendous despite millions of dollars already spent on flyovers, expressways, and millions more planned to enter and exit the city. 45 Every morning on national radio, there is a regular report on hold-ups in most areas of Auckland. And on the odd occasion, delays from
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7868
Petone or the Ngauranga Gorge due to car truck accidents, but I have yet to hear congestion at the Basin.
And just a few weeks ago, I was at the Board of Enquiry hearing and 5 had to collect a friend at the airport at 1:30. Well from the Basin where I was parked, it took just 10 minutes, green lights all the way. But ironically, it took another 15 minutes to find a park. After this experience, I was amused to read, Mr Baines, your comment ‘airport keen on the flyover, but why?’ I shall treasure that cutting that I took 10 out of the paper because as he said, ‘but why?’ and was sorry I had missed this presentation and agree with a reported question by Board of Enquiry member Mr Baines.
We do not have the population of Auckland, and the ease of movement 15 in a truly walkable city it what makes Wellington a desirable city to work and live in. And it was a pleasure to listen to Elizabeth McCredie, the Australian urban designer, describing our city. And it has been good today to hear, and other days of the young people cycling, and I quite often when I have been here, sat in the Basin and had my lunch 20 and watched people walking, cycling, boys from Wellington College having their lunch, young children picnicking and I think it is just a treasure. It is in the heart of our city, it is in walking distance, we have not got many flat green spaces. We have got our wonderful hills and our wonderful botanical gardens Zealandia and Otari. But this is a 25 wonderful place for old people and young people.
What I have found difficult to understand has been that public transport is causing congestion. But there are and will be few buses on the flyover or through Mt Victoria tunnel. And as I understand, the airport 30 flyer goes up Elizabeth Street to the Pirie Street old tram tunnel, as does other buses to eastern suburbs. And my bus goes round Oriental Bay and over Roseneath to Kilbirnie and the shopping warehouses near the airport. Many buses also travel up Taranaki to John and Newtown, and of course buses to Brooklyn, Mornington go up Willis and Victoria 35 Street. As for trucks, the majority of them coming from the north have to take the Aotea Quay route as they are not allowed through the terrace tunnel. And they continue to the eastern suburbs via Oriental Bay and Evans Bay to Cobham Drive. I have talked with many pedestrians including my granddaughter who lives in Hataitai, and they 40 have all stated they will continue to walk through the tunnel and carry on through Kent and Cambridge, even on a sunny, windless day, and we do have them. But certainly will not use the flyover.
I have also observed that the majority of cyclists and walkers heading 45 north or south to Adelaide Road ride or walk through the Basin, and I will not repeat that, I have just already said that. I speak for many like
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me who are old as the Mt Victoria tunnel, and wish to preserve this flat, open, tree-lined space and improvements to the boulevard, like as several people have already said, moving the New World westwards so Waitangi Park, the northern hills and harbour can be enjoyed for 5 generations to come.
As above, also some sprucing up of the current stands and buildings in the Basin, and in this regard the Basin Trust and city council should have this on their current wish list. I have actually spoken to a council 10 officer about this and he has assured me that the Trust and the council are still talking about those buildings, so I hope they stop talking and do something soon.
At one of the hearings I have attended, I was appalled to hear one of the 15 economists commenting that if the flyover did not go ahead, Wellington taxpayers would miss out on this $90,000,000 investment in the city. When I discussed this aspect with my husband who has been in finance all his life, and many friends like us, they would rather see this government funding go to Christchurch. Although I am here 20 today on my own, I belong to many organisations, walking groups, bridge and mah-jong clubs, waterfront watch, Otari Wilton’s Bush, Curtis Street Residents, Town Belt Residents Association, many of whom have travelled widely and commented that around the world, so many flyovers are being demolished, but they found it hard to make 25 submissions so asked me to speak for them.
[12.50 pm]
I have quoted to them many times what Judge Whiting said earlier in 30 the hearing. What the local people have to say is important and reflects their views and how they feel about it, all part of the mix that we have to take into account.
And the grandmother of a student of Wellington East who lives in 35 Newtown said she cannot understand why they think the flyover is necessary. And she either walks to college or gets a bus. Finally, I would like to quote from the World Health Organisation report 25th of March 2014, and I think that was reported on yesterday. “Air pollution is now the world’s largest single environment health risk.” And was so 40 pleased I was at the hearing when Doctors Tregonning and MacLennan and Ms (INDISTINCT 1.10) representers from (INDISTINCT 1.12) the New Zealand and climate and health made their presentation. Now after yesterday, I went home and I have added a P.S. to this as you can see, so it is not quite my final. I was interested to hear the comment 45 from Dr Black yesterday RE: his father’s generation used to walk to bus stops. But his generation all drive to work. What I have observed in
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the next generation is fewer owned cars and can personally quote, my grandson, nearly 31, went to Massey University in Palmerston, worked in Wellington and now in London, has his license but has never owned a car. Granddaughter 29 in Otago, graduate, and worked in Queensland 5 and now doing her PhD in Perth, also has a license but never owned a car. Both of course, used to borrow their parent’s car when in Wellington for socialising, but used public transport for work. And two other granddaughters, one 27, lives in Wellington, never had a license, does not want to, and walks or uses the buses or trains. And the 16- 10 year-old in Scotland still has shown no interest in driving. And my son, after nearly 20 years in the UK, where he only ever rented cars for holidays, since his return 3 years ago, owns a car but takes it to the nearest bus stop in Wadestown and walks into Wellington. And depending on the weather, walks home or take the bus. 15 We are, I might add, not anti-car, as both playing golf at different courses, we have for the last 20 years had 2 cars, but with the event of the gold card I personally drive the buses. Thank you.
20 CHAIRPERSON: A fitting end, yes. Well thank you very much Mrs Swan. You are another one of the residents who have put a lot of time into the interest of this hearing, and it is good to hear from you at last. So thank you very much.
25 MS SWANN: Thank you, well as I say, a Cromwell boy, but he is Otago educated - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
30 MS SWANN: We do not want to leave Wellington, but we do not want monstrosities like this. We love it, it has got everything we like. It has got concerts, it has got theatre. I was at circa the other night. Wellington, if you fellas coming here – I am sure you notice how friendly people are in this city. You can walk down the street, and of 35 course you have gone to school with half of them anyway so that does not matter, but it is just – it is a very liveable city. We do not want to live in Waikanae or Paraparaumu, Kapiti, we like the city, we like what is available for us. Thank you.
40 MR COLLINS: Can I just ask a question? I notice you made a submission to the regional council in 2009. Do you recall that? About the total length of road. Can you just tell us about that process? Because we have been discussing consultation right through this hearing, for different parts of the project, and people have been quite critical of the consultation for 45 this particular project where it was just option A or option B. But back in 2009, there was a process with the regional council – - - -
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MS SWANN: I think I said there - - -
MR COLLINS: - - - you have included the letter here. You have attached the 5 letter which you sent - - -
MS SWANN: Yes.
MR COLLINS: - - - for that process. If you can remember what that was 10 about and how - - -
MS SWANN: Well that again, in 2009, I made that submission and that was when I think they just gave us A and B back then. Because I have got a picture here of – let us see if I can find it for you. Just bear with me, 15 this is what the paper war of this house I live in.
[12.55 pm]
Just looking, and I will just go through that a bit. No, see I have got 20 here ‘attach photos’ – Regional transport. We are opposed to the proposal to build a flyover at the Basin Reserve.
I have got a picture here of 2007, I showed it to these people before, I hope I can find it just to show you again. You see that, I think it was 25 you that showed - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Don’t worry, if you had something - - -
MS SWANN: No, sorry, I can’t find - - - 30 CHAIRPERSON: If you had some recollection of what the process was and how it was for you, what was being consulted about, that would be interesting, but it was quite a while ago now, so if you can’t remember it doesn’t matter. 35 MS SWANN: No, I know at the time I was very angry because at a later hearing I said I had already made a submission about this and nobody had ever contacted me back from the Regional Council, and she said, ‘I’ll look into that Mrs Swann,’ well, I am still waiting I’m afraid to 40 say. If I find it I will show you, okay, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs Swann, thank you very much indeed. And we will adjourn now for lunch and we are starting at 1.45 with Mr – and the witness - - - 45 MR……….: Mr Redinski is not coming in - - -
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CHAIRPERSON: Is he Friday now, Mr Redinski (ph. 2.23) not coming. Okay that’s all right, well, we are not starting until 2 o’clock.
5 ADJOURNED [12.57 pm]
RESUMED [2.04 pm]
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Teppett, is it? 10 MR TEPPETT: Yes, it is.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, welcome along, Mr Teppett.
15 MR TEPPETT: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: If you could just give us your full name for the record because it has got to go into the record, it is being recorded and it will be typed. 20 MR TEPPETT: Right.
CHAIRPERSON: And then start your submission.
25 MR TEPPETT: Okay, my name is Ross Donald Malcolm Teppett – so get into it?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
30 MR TEPPETT: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: And are you a submitter?
MR TEPPETT: I’m a submitter and I’m opposing. 35 CHAIRPERSON: And you are representing yourself?
MR TEPPETT: I’m representing myself, yes.
40 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR TEPPETT: So thank you for the opportunity to talk to my submission today. It’s nice to be here in the home of match fixing.
45 CHAIRPERSON: Well - - -
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MR TEPPETT: I shouldn’t say that – it’s not true, no it’s not true.
CHAIRPERSON: Fairly compelling evidence. They will have to have a Board of Inquiry hearing about it. 5 MR TEPPETT: Yes. So I’m here – I don’t have any flash PowerPoints of facts and figures or supplementary anything to augment my original submission in opposition to the Basin Flyover, I’m here as an ordinary citizen, wanting to voice my opposition to the proposal. 10 So what I will do is I’ll just read through – I’ve got some notes here which kind of embellish the original submission.
I believe we have a government that is hell bent on building roads that 15 sees trucks and cars as kings and queens that commerce and rationalist market driven economics has put firmly ahead of the community, cultural and social dimensions of such public works.
The question I would ask of the government and NZTA about the 20 flyover proposal is, what are the values that underpin this idea? I’d argue they’re not about values that stand for creating a sustainable urban traffic solution that enhances the ability for all people to move freely by whatever means around our city’s iconic and unique green space that we have here, the Basin Reserve. 25 Myself and my family moved to Pirie Street in Mount Victoria 12 years ago, that’s a street that’s a few hundred metres north on Mount Victoria. Pirie Street is a major public bus route, one of the busiest in Wellington, to get around the city and beyond I wanted to make it clear 30 that I do drive a car, regularly ride a pushbike and regularly use the buses, and this very often involves travelling around and through what I’d call the Basin precinct.
Also a regular user of Mount Victoria tunnel, on my way to and from 35 the airport and visiting shops and friends in the eastern suburbs, I also travel out of town regularly in my car using the inner city bypass or around the waterfront.
For years I worked in Petone and Lyall Bay travelling around the Basin 40 on a daily basis as a commuter in my car, but also try and bike to Petone quite regularly, doing this at least once a week.
It’s my view that I can see no rational reason for a flyover, and I just want to make it clear that I don’t accept the NZTA’s reframed and 45 sanitised Basin Bridge moniker, in terms of providing traffic or other
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economic social benefits for Wellington – I don’t see the flyover as meeting any reasonable goals there.
So I’ve set out a range of reasons that I oppose the flyover: First, in all 5 my 12 years plus in Wellington, I don’t think I’ve seen the volume of vehicle traffic increase around the Basin area. In fact, having lived in Auckland for about 15 years, and I still travel up there regularly, I still remark to my family and friends how relatively decongested Wellington remains today, that driving around Wellington is a doddle 10 compared to trying to get around Auckland.
There are periods in the day when the traffic builds up around the Basin here, but in my experience this happens in very short peak intervals. In terms of the traffic flow at peak times I believe that big improvements 15 could be made by some relatively simple changes to the road layout, road marking and light phasing at a very small cost compared to the 90 million dollars plus of taxpayers’ dollars.
[2.10 pm] 20 Most often when I try and get around the Basin from Ellice Street, which is the street just over here, when traffic is heavy the innermost lane to the Basin is – or nearest the Basin – is almost always empty. In the mornings there’s a lot of traffic congestion as a result of cars trying 25 to head to St Marks School to drop off kids and so there seems to be a real congested point around one or two lanes at most.
The Basin Reserve represents an iconic and unique inner city green space that must be protected. Not only does it offer all the benefits of 30 being an open, welcoming and peaceful oasis in a busy modern city, but it’s also a fantastic place to experience cricket, other sporting fixtures and cultural events.
The prospect of a 3-storey flyover towering over the Basin’s northern 35 circumference is outrageous and I think it will have a significant negative and ruinous effect. For example I have been following most of the evidence that’s come to the Board from the likes of cricket experts about the impacts on the likes of batting sight lines and the like an the potential reassessment of the Basin as a cricket test venue, 40 international cricket test venue.
I see the proposed flyover creating a concrete wall across the northern boundary of the Basin in effect dividing the city from north to south. Along with this dividing wall I’d see an associated dead space created 45 no matter how well the NZTA tries to dress it up. Aesthetically it makes absolutely no sense to have such an ugly intrusive and
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overbearing structure juxtaposed with the new War Memorial Park. A concrete monstrosity up against a space created for peaceful reflection and tranquillity seems out rightly stupid and an unsightly and unpalatable mix. 5 One of the most attractive benefits for me of living in Wellington is that it is so relatively easy to get around by car, by bus, by bike and by foot. I want Wellington to continue to develop as a people-centred, people-friendly 21st century capital city. I see buses and the likes of 10 public transport and cycle lanes as being Wellington’s post-industrial less carbon centric future. These non-car options have big health and wellbeing applications on many levels.
Of course current economic modelling takes little or no notice of these. 15 Currently greater Wellington is grappling with the issue of the future of the city’s trolley buses. Cost is put down as a major issue. I’d argue investing 90 million plus dollars into public transport would be a much wiser and sustainable investment of citizens’ funds. Our city does have a very good public transport system but it could be a lot better. 20 Improvements in public transport will move people to put less reliance on car transport with all the associated benefits of putting less pressure on the city’s roads and a much smaller carbon footprint.
The proposed flyover would mean that cars would be directed away 25 from using the Ellice Street access to the Basin roundabout, increased traffic flows and congestion on my street, Pirie Street, already a very busy street with buses and cars. I have no problem with the buses because I am a regular user and enjoy that, but there are currently periods on some days when you can have 6 to 8 buses queuing up Pirie 30 Street or down Pirie Street, whatever way you want to look at it.
With the flyover pushing more traffic into Pirie Street from Ellice Street if it went ahead it’s obvious there must be a lot more potential for more congestion and danger to people in cars and on foot. Just 35 below me is the Austin Street intersection which is notorious for incidents involving cars versus buses and buses versus people, and I could just see the likelihood of more of that in the future if the flyover went ahead.
40 So there are various other issues that I have in opposition to the flyover. I am concerned about the pollution and health effects of the proposed flyover in terms of the vehicle emissions on the people who live, work and study in the vicinity. I do have a daughter who is at Wellington East Girls. 45
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While I’m a science graduate many moons ago I don’t admit to being an expert in public health but I would be concerned about the risks to the health of people in the area by having an elevated flyover and I had not seen anything in the evidence that would convince me that those 5 risks are not mitigated or are any less with the flyover proposal.
[2.15 pm]
I am also concerned about the dangers of pedestrians and cyclists who 10 would use the pedestrian bridge, particularly in the case of severe winds. I suspect on some days that – very rare in Wellington – that the pedestrian bridge would be unusable and in my experience on some days walking around Wellington it is hard enough to stay on a very wide foot path, let alone a much narrow space metres above the ground. 15 And another issue in terms of the flyover proposal would be an obvious one here in Wellington is the effects of a significant earthquake on the structure and the danger to people on it and under it in the event of a shake. Having seen what has happened in other cities around the world 20 with big earthquakes and the collapse of such structures.
So that is my submission, thank you - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 25 MR TEPPETT: - - - for listening.
CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you very much, Mr Teppett. Thank you for your care and taking of your time. I said to someone earlier this 30 morning, I do not think you were here, but we know that most or a lot of the submitters who have come here to make representations have had to arrange time off work to come here and it is not easy and we appreciate you taking off your time and doing so. Any questions?
35 MR BAINES: Mr Teppett, just briefly – you said you were a user of the Mount Victoria tunnel, do you mean that as a driver or a cyclist or a pedestrian or?
MR TEPPETT: Yes, I drive through it. I try to avoid biking or walking 40 through it.
MR BAINES: Right. So if you chose to go through it that would be in your car, not in - - -
45 MR TEPPETT: Yes, generally in the car.
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MR BAINES: Okay.
MR COLLINS: When you spoke about buses queuing – is that queuing for the Hataitai tunnel? 5 MR TEPPETT: Yes, the departure street tunnel.
MR COLLINS: Because who have got lights, so they have to wait.
10 MR TEPPETT: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Because we have heard the idea of the bus – public transport spine study talked about having or using a second Mount Victoria tunnel for preference, but I am not quite sure why they want to or 15 whether they intended to discontinue the use of that Hataitai tunnel. So, is there anything you know about, as a resident – I mean, that is one indication that they are queuing, - - -
MR TEPPETT: Right. 20 MR COLLINS: - - - that there are some delays, - - -
MR TEPPETT: I mean what - - -
25 MR COLLINS: - - - have you got an indication of anything wrong with it? It seems quite a convenient thing to get - - -
MR TEPPETT: Oh, it is.
30 MR COLLINS: - - - to the buses - - -
MR TEPPETT: It is great, it is fantastic.
MR COLLINS: - - - and you know, getting away from here. 35 MR TEPPETT: Yes, I think it is good having the tunnel there. The issue I have is with – you would not be able to access the Basin roundabout by going down Ellice Street. And there are a lot of people who live on the southern side of Pirie Street will be pushed over to Pirie Street to get 40 out of that area. - - -
MR COLLINS: Yes.
MR TEPPETT: - - - And there are sometimes considerable numbers of buses 45 going along that stretch of road and I can just see the potential for some
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big congestion points along there. And, you know, it is a relatively narrow street.
MR COLLINS: Yes. 5 MR TEPPETT: And the kids in the area.
MR COLLINS: Well, part of this proposal is to have two lanes coming out of Pirie Street to try and make it easier to go out of Pirie Street. 10 MR TEPPETT: At the bottom?
MR COLLINS: Yes. That is part of this current proposal, which could be done anyway, but it is put as part of this proposal, because it is seen as 15 being tied up to a total package.
MR TEPPETT: I heard of that.
MR COLLINS: The other question I had was – you mentioned having a 20 daughter at Wellington East – my observation with that is that a lot of people, both the girls walking and people who are dropping them off by car go up – is it Brougham Street, the parallel one or the one up there, rather than coming along Kent Terrace. So there is quite a lot of movement up there, I guess, to avoid the traffic on Kent Terrace. And I 25 have noticed where the buses are stopped up there, there is a bus for the school buses. But if you had any more information of how that works?
[2.20 pm]
30 We have not had a submission from the college and so we just had some evidence in passing, I think, from traffic engineers about “Don’t worry, it will be okay”. But if you had any further thoughts about how the college works at the moment and how it might be in the future?
35 MR TEPPETT: Yes. I was a bit surprise there was not a submission from the college. So yes, I would not know what their thinking is in terms of, you know, the school management and the Board there, but there are a considerable number of people who use both Brougham Street and Austin Street to get to the school in the morning, as well as the buses 40 they will go along Austin Street and then turn into to go down Ellice Street. So with the flyover, obviously, they are going to have to come back and get back down to Pirie Street, turn around and go back to Brougham Street.
45 MR COLLINS: Well, I think the intention is they could still come down and then there is a little link across, a slow link - - -
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MR BAINES: The link road.
MR COLLINS: Yes, a link road across to enable them to come back across. 5 But that has only been discussed.
CHAIRPERSON: Do think the buses go up Pirie Street to go to the college?
MR TEPPETT: Some of them do, yes. - - - 10 CHAIRPERSON: - - - then along and then along - - -
MR TEPPETT: - - - Some come up and some come through.
15 CHAIRPERSON: - - - and along Austin Street.
MR TEPPETT: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Okay, thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON: And then back down Ellice Street turning around, they do a loop.
MR TEPPETT: Yes, they do a big loop back to Brougham and along 25 Brougham, or down around the Basin.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well they could still do that, even with the project, because there is going to be a link road particularly for buses but it is shared with cars. They are hoping cars will not - - - 30 MR TEPPETT: So where does the link road go?
CHAIRPERSON: From the bottom of Ellice Street, around into Dufferin Street. 35 MR TEPPETT: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON: And you can also access Paterson Street from it as well.
40 MR TEPPETT: Yes. I mean I would argue the – for me the issue of the traffic congestion factor on Pirie Street is a minor one in terms of the overall - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, of course. 45 MR TEPPETT: - - - project.
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CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is the effects of the bridge itself that are concerned about mainly.
5 MR TEPPETT: Yes. Well, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well. Thank you, Mr Teppett, thank you very much for your assistance.
10 MR BAINES: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: We have Mr Lee. And Mr Lee, you are representing the Action for Environment Incorporated?
15 MR LEE: I am, your Honour.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, come into the hot seat.
MR LEE: Good afternoon, your Honour and members of the Board. My full 20 name is David John Lee. I am chairman of Action for Environment Incorporated on whose behalf I am speaking today.
Action for Environment is a Wellington based environment group which was founded in 1972 and since that time has been active in 25 protecting both the natural and built environment, in doing so we have made several successful appeals to the Environment Court.
Just a personal note – I am a Wellingtonian and I have lived here all my life except for nine years travelling and working in several countries 30 overseas. I suppose I am what could be called a Wellington Cockney having been born and grew up within the sound of the bells of the Carillon. As children, my siblings and I did not the Carillon very much because at 3 o’clock, every Sunday afternoon it was playing what we called “The School Tomorrow” tune. 35 My earliest memory of the Basin Reserve has a strange connection with crayfish. As I young lad I used to walk from my home in Alfred (ph 4.15) Street to the former St Joseph’s Church when I was an altar boy. I would take a shortcut through the Basin and go out through the gates 40 behind the Wakefield Memorial, which were always open at that time. The lower part of Paterson Street did not exist then and it was a private lane up to the church lined with camellia trees. The tunnel traffic used to go through –used to use Brougham and Ellice Streets.
45 The Basin Reserve in those days was the hanger for what we called “methos”. As I walked through the Basin early in the morning, I passed
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their litter of empty gin bottles and packhorse crayfish shells. That was a New Zealand where crayfish was affordable for down-and-outs. How things have changed.
5 From that early experience in the Basin I still do not think of a crayfish as being a luxury food. Growing up I rather took Wellington for granted. However, on returning from overseas I saw the city with fresh eyes.
10 [2.25 pm]
I could appreciate it’s beautiful setting, it’s compactness and, for want of a better word, its walkability. Wellington to me is the nearest thing in New Zealand to a European city. My rationale for saying this is that 15 the essential character of European cities was formed by once being walled towns. Wellington’s town walls are the Town Belt protected hills that surround it. Putting a 1960s style flyover in the middle of such a city is unthinkable and its effects, in our view, would certainly be more than minor. 20 The heritage values of this area have been well described already at this hearing so I won’t go into that suffice to pose the question, “Would the British equivalent of the NZTA consider building a flyover near Buckingham Palace or one next to Lord’s Cricket Ground?” It needs to 25 be stressed that Government House and the Basin Reserve are our equivalents.
If this project is given approval the result will be heads of state, ambassadors, even the sovereign of New Zealand, being confronted 30 with a graffitied monstrosity whenever they go to and from Government House. In proposing this flyover NZTA is showing a complete lack of respect for Wellington as the nation’s capital. Building it would, in our opinion, be act of official vandalism.
35 Much has been said about the costs and benefits of this proposal. I just want to briefly refer to value. That scene out there, projected to millions of viewers around the world during internationally televised test cricket matches, is of priceless value promoting Wellington and New Zealand’s image. A flyover would seriously devalue that image. 40 Television cameras, because they have to be high, would show even more of the flyover.
Since its inception Action for Environment has acted as a guardian of the Town Belt. The founders of Wellington with great foresight set the 45 land aside to secure the beautiful appearance of the future city. Their instructions were that it be public property on condition no buildings be
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ever erected upon it. Wellington’s Town Belt is of national importance and along with Adelaide has international significance as an example of the greenbelt concept in 19th century town planning.
5 Since 1840 the Town - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, what you have in inverted commas, is that a quote from an early document, is it?
10 MR LEE: Yes, that is the instructions by the secretary of the New Zealand Company giving instructions to reserve the Town Belt in the foundation of Wellington.
CHAIRPERSON: Have you got copies of that? 15 MR LEE: I haven’t got a copy of that, I am sorry, but I can get that to the Board.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, not today but could you file it with the EPA? 20 MR LEE: I certainly can do, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
25 MR LEE: That was a letter written by the secretary of the New Zealand Company in 1839.
CHAIRPERSON: And is that the first reference, historical official reference to the Basin? 30 MR LEE: Not to the Basin. My reason for mentioning the Town Belt is that the Basin – I am saying this is in a minute, the Basin Reserve and the Canal Reserve were added to the Town Belt later.
35 CHAIRPERSON: I see.
MR LEE: I am just giving a little background on the Town Belt.
CHAIRPERSON: This is the Town Belt, yes, thank you. 40 MR LEE: I will explain, this might seem off the point, but as I read on I will explain why this is relevant. Since 1840 the Town Belt has been held in trust for the people of Wellington. It was formally gifted to us in trust by the Wellington Provincial Council with the 1873 Town Belt 45 Deed. Although not part of the original Town Belt the Basin and Canal
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Reserves were added as schedules to the 1873 Deed. We have included a copy of this deed in our submission for your information.
From what we can tell from NZTA documentation, the proposed 5 flyover goes over the Canal Reserve and one of its massive support columns goes smack in the middle of it. This is clearly a contravention of the Town Belt Deed which states, “No thoroughfare shall at any time be created across the lands, the said lands or part thereof”.
10 The flyover’s proposed route would also contravene the Reserves Act 1977 under which the Canal Reserve is held as a recreation reserve and it does not comply with the Wellington District Plan’s open space A zoning.
15 There is another aspect of this proposal which relates to the Town Belt. I co-ordinate a re-vegetation project on Mount Victoria and I spend a lot of time up there. In doing so, I have become aware of the surprising number of cyclists and pedestrians who use the Town Belt to commute to and from the city. While it is a longer and more energetic journey it 20 is certainly a healthier and more pleasant one than going through the Hataitai Tunnel albeit with a flyover attachment. It is an aspect of east- west commuting that should be recognised by NZTA’s traffic planners in our view.
25 [2.30 pm]
In conclusion, I would just like to express appreciation to the EPA staff for their assistance, particularly Glen and Pip whose ever obliging and agreeable manner has made participation in this hearing as pleasant and 30 as painless as possible, and I know I am talking for other submitters who expressed similar views. And that is all I have to say, your Honour, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you very much, Mr Lee, and thank you for 35 recognising our hardworking staff too and they often work hard and don’t get very much recognition so we do appreciate that.
MR LEE: Thank you.
40 CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?
MR COLLINS: This document at the back, this is a typed up copy, it would have been - - -
45 MR LEE: This is a copy, this is not a facsimile, I can get - - -
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MR COLLINS: Oh, no - - -
MR LEE: - - - like just a copy.
5 MR COLLINS: No, it is probably impossible to read the handwriting.
MR LEE: It is handwritten, yes.
MR COLLINS: No, this is good. 10 CHAIRPERSON: And just for completeness you will file this with the EPA staff.
MR LEE: I will file the secretary of the New Zealand Company’s letter with 15 the EPA, with Pip.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr Lee, thank you for your assistance.
20 MR LEE: Thank you very much indeed, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Now, I think is it Margaret Tobin. She is not here. Is John Horne here? Mr Horne, yes.
25 Yes, well, welcome along, Mr Horne, and if you can, just like the others, if you could please just say your name for the record and then your submission.
MR HORNE: Good afternoon, kia ora koutou. My name is John Christopher 30 Horne, I go by Chris, and I am a submitter. I have made two additions to my earlier submission that I sent to the EPA and they are at the bottom of page 1 in the documents you have got and at the top of page 2. They are additions regarding submitter details, they are in italics. 35 I would like to expand on some of the points in my submission. I have been a resident of Wellington since 1938 when I was born here right through to the present except for four years working in Marlborough and 13 years working overseas and travelling. 40 The additions I have made to personal details are schooling, I was at St Mark’s from 1944 to 46 and then from 48 to 50. I don’t have a car so I am highly dependent on the busses and trains in the area and to get here I use the No 22/23 bus service from Mairangi which goes right 45 past the Basin and through to Island Bay and Houghton Bay. I
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sometimes have access to my partner’s car but she doesn’t use her car very much either.
[2.35 pm] 5 My position on the proposal, in part B in my document I oppose the proposal in its entirety.
5.1. Public notification is flawed in my opinion, best practice was not 10 followed and you will see the details there, I have got a copy of the 10 August 2013 Dominion Post, public notices, classified advertising – sorry, the classified advertising index didn’t refer to those pages where the applications were, they were in the Sports section. I happened to spot them as I went through to the back of the paper to look at the 15 hatches, matches and despatches section to see if anybody I knew had died, and I suddenly came across the page and a half or so of advertisements, or the public notification for the proposal.
5.2. By the way, I can pass this over to the Board if they wish to have a 20 look at it although Judge Whiting did give details at the hearing, preliminary hearing, up at the Makoura Hotel saying how widespread the public notification had been.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we have got copies on that paper, thank you. 25 MR HORNE: In my opinion, roading capacity is perfectly adequate, there is no need for the proposed bridge or flyover because there are the following principal routes to and from the eastern suburbs, sorry, the eastern and southern suburbs. 30 Oriental Parade, Evans Bay, which incidentally, served by the number 24 bus, going to Mirimar Heights, and the 14 which goes around Oriental Bay out to Roseneath.
35 There is the Hataitai bus tunnel, it takes number 2 Mirimar, 5 Hataitai and very importantly, the number 91 Airport flyer buses.
Mount Victoria Tunnel, takes the number 6 bus, I think it is, to Lyall Bay in rush hours. 40 Constable Street takes number 3, Lyall Bay,
11 Seatoun, 18 Mirimar, and 43, 433 Strathmore services.
45 In addition, there is the Esplanade Queens Drive, Lyall Bay access to the southern and eastern suburbs.
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In addition, there are several minor routes, I won’t go into those, plus there is more than adequate road capacity to meet the needs of present and future generations to get to and from the southern and eastern 5 suburbs.
Given the likely steep rises to the prices of petrol, diesel and lubricants, as the world gets further beyond peak oil believed to have been reached 2008, more or less, and the likelihood of a future government having to 10 impose polluter pays levies on the users of petrol and diesel, I believe that no sound case can be made for granting the consents sought for the proposed bridge flyover.
I did work for about nine years in the oil industry overseas and that is 15 part of the reason I have made those comments there.
5.3 Induced traffic. The project is environmentally unsustainable, because by increasing the capacity of the roading network as the proposed bridge flyover would do, that inevitably increases the use of 20 motor vehicles and thus the consumption of finite, fossil fuels. This phenomenon called induced traffic, eventually negates any initial reduction in traffic congestion following the commission of increased road capacity. This phenomenon makes it impossible for a city to build its way out of traffic congestion, thus expenditure on the proposed 25 bridge flyover does not make economic sense so it is economically unsustainable as well as environmentally unsustainable.
5.4 Greenhouse gas emissions. Another indication that the project is environmentally unsustainable. The increased combustion of finite 30 fossil fuels that will result from increased use of motor vehicles resulting from induced traffic would lead to increased emission of greenhouse gases, a principal contributor to anthropogenic climate change.
35 The idea of making Wellington a carbon neutral capital powered by clean renewable energy, would be further delayed, and I would like to make the point here that the carbon neutral capital, I believe was first mooted by a former mayor of Wellington who is now the chief executive of the EPA. 40 [2.40 pm]
Visual impacts. The proposed bridge flyover coupled with the proposed acoustic barrier come grandstand would have severe adverse 45 visual impacts on the view of the Basin and the town belt for people
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coming south along Kent Terrace including me who uses the bus services along the street.
The proposed structures of the flyover and the proposed grandstand 5 would block the views of – would add to the blocking of the views of the harbour and hills once enjoyed by people travelling north along Cambridge Terrace but now blocked by an earlier example of poor town planning, a supermarket. Which now provides a wall which prevents our viewing the harbour and the hills as we go north along 10 Cambridge Terrae.
The proposed bridge flyover coupled with the proposed acoustic barrier come grandstand would destroy views to the south from the city’s most impressive avenue as effectively as has the supermarket to the north. 15 Urban decay. I spent some time living in Toronto in Canada quite near the Gardner expressway. That’s an elevated monstrosity between the downtown area and Lake Ontario. It’s pretty ghastly. Underneath it was awful. In numerous cities around the world elevated highways 20 such as the proposed bridge flyover act as catalysts for the start of urban decay in their locality. Their concrete sterility attracts joggers, homeless people and the dumping of rubbish.
The proposed bridge flyover coupled with proposed acoustic barrier 25 grandstand would be ugly impositions on a widely known part of the city and would be inconsistent with modern urban design. The proposed structures would have adverse effects or impacts on amenity, heritage, human values, schools, homes in the area and the local and wider environment. 30 Impacts on pedestrians. As a keen walker I believe the combination of the proposed bridge flyover with the proposed acoustic barrier grandstand could so disturb air movement in the area, particularly during severe gales, as to make walking hazardous. In addition the two 35 proposed structures would have adverse impacts on the amenity of the locality by imposing a visual barrier, by shading footpaths in the vicinity and by exacerbating noise pollution.
Proposal for a shared footpath cycleway is unacceptable because 40 pedestrians and cyclists do not mix safely with the latter able to travel much faster than the former and of course in gales, cyclists with their bodies elevated above the walls of the proposed fence along the proposed footpath cycleway would be quite likely to be blown against pedestrians adding to the unpleasantness of walking to the feeling of 45 fear as cyclists approach.
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5.8. The least sustainable mode of transport. The proposed bridge flyover would facilitate use of private and company cars. In many cases these vehicles carry on the driver making these vehicles the most inefficient way of moving people in terms of the use of finite fossil 5 fuels, movements per person, the use of transport funds per person moved and in the use of road space per person moved.
Sustainable transport. The proposed bridge flyover if built would delay the time when Wellington transport network becomes environmentally, 10 socially and economically sustainable.
5.10. Deal with New Zealand Cricket in the Basin Reserve Trust. The deal to offer an acoustic barrier come grandstand to NZ Cricket and the Basin Reserve Trust to mollify their worries about the disservice to the 15 peace and quiet enjoyed by cricketers and spectators at the Basin appears to be a dubious use of funds from the public purse. I didn’t use in my submission the terms “hush money” or the word “blackmail”, but that’s in my opinion what that proposed grandstand is.
20 Finally national debt. The expenditure of public moneys on the proposed bridge flyover coupled with proposed acoustic barrier and grandstand at a time when the nation is saddled with huge costs in the reconstruction of Christchurch, the huge cost of leaky building crisis and the costs imposed by damage caused by severe storms appears to 25 be fiscally imprudent which simply add to the nation’s enormous multibillion dollar debt.
[2.45 pm]
30 And the following points I just list some documents where I believe you’ll find that the proposal is not environmentally sustainable.
So the additions I would like to make are in my point 6, I do not have any suggested conditions because I believe I asked the Board to decline 35 all the applications in their entirety.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much, Mr Horne. 40 Any questions?
MR BAINES: Did you hear the cricket people and the Basin Reserve Trust people when they were here? 45 MR HORNE: No.
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MR BAINES: Because I think their – perhaps their position is a little different in the way you have described it, is the impression I gained anyway.
5 MR HORNE: I had the privilege of hearing Rod Oram last night and I agree entirely with what he had to say.
MR BAINES: Okay.
10 CHAIRPERSON: No questions?
MR MCMAHON: No your position’s very clear, Mr Horne, thank you.
MR HORNE: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you very much, Mr Horne.
MR HORNE: I too would like to thank the EPA staff for their excellent communication skills. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you, Mr Horne, for that.
MR HORNE: Thank you.
25 DISCUSSION
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well welcome along Ms Vermaat, welcome.
DR VERMAAT: Thank you. 30 CHAIRPERSON: And could you give your full name please?
DR VERMAAT: My full first name?
35 CHAIRPERSON: Well, just sufficient to identify yourself.
DR VERMAAT: It’s Wilhelmina Katric Vermaat.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I do not know - - - 40 DR VERMAAT: Born in Holland.
CHAIRPERSON: I am not quite sure how the people in Christchurch are typing our record will be able to translate that, but never mind, it will 45 be interesting to see what it looks like.
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DR VERMAAT: The English would be Wilhelmina Katarina.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I am sure that will be equally difficult.
5 DR VERMAAT: I sometimes will introduce myself as Queen Wilhelmina.
MR……….: Named after the Queen.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 10 DR VERMAAT: Well thank you for having me. I’m sitting here, well on behalf of myself of course. I’m not an urban designer or a heritage expert, I think you’ve heard them enough by now. I’m also no project manager or lawyer, I am traffic transport engineer, but I do have a 15 passion for urban design – if I would have to study again I might have chosen that instead of some theoretical topic in logic and linguistics.
Well I’m a resident of Wellington for almost eight years now, so I really love this city, I haven’t moved anywhere else, so – and I’m 20 planning to stay here, as long as I can.
I’m really passionate about community and people and I think Wellington in that sense has a great community and really great people that are very willing to do lots of things, and I am personally keen 25 active transport user – I’m from Holland, what else do you want – I’m cyclist and do lots of things around that.
[2.50 pm]
30 Well I want to address and discuss certain aspects from my personal experience, and I realise when I looked at the whole list of people who had submitted, I thought, actually I am sitting here on half of people who do not generally send in a submission. So actually, I am on a Benefit myself. How that worked out I do not know. But I am sitting 35 here on behalf of beneficiaries, people who are underage – not that I am, but there is not many people here of course, that would be able to step up. And people also with visual, hearing impairment. And other peoples that really consciously choose to walk, bike and use public transport. But also drivers. I am a driver myself. I get stuck in the 40 traffic around the Basin Reserve.
So I have put my presentation – I will keep it short, 20 minutes will be enough. You have had your long days. But I have put in a lot of questions, my PhD was actually about analysing questions. So I like 45 them, and the more questions you ask as a researcher, the closer you get – well, actually, the further away you get from the answer, but it
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only becomes more and more interesting. And that is actually what I think the government should also have done. What, why, how, to get where they want to be. So in that sense, I am also not going to deep in all the data. I am not an expert as I said. So I really take it from a 5 personal perspective, and you can take it or leave it.
But the first question would be, who do we provide a solution for? As I said, there is a lot of people who are left out, who do not have a car, who consciously choose another mode of transport. So it is only for, I 10 think, a relatively small group of people who can actually afford to drive or are able to drive. So do the others also have to pay the bill for that, or are there other solutions that would also work out for their benefit? So what is it all about? And you have seen it all, but yes, I actually looked up and I thought, actually I still do not know why they 15 are building it. Is it really to reduce congestion? Is it about the traffic flow? Is it really, like, do we in the world want to get people from A to B as fast as possible? And I think it was two minutes, increase, I think. So yes, that does not sound much.
20 CHAIRPERSON: That is right, 90 seconds to two minutes. On the eastern trip.
MS VERMAAT: Okay yes, exactly. From east to west, right?
25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MS VERMAAT: But that is probably not the whole day, right? There will still be traffic jams around peak hours. So is spending $2,000,000 – also the number, I am really bad in preparing for this. More creative 30 brain. Is it $2,000,000,000 this is going to cost?
MR BAINES: No, $90,000,000.
MS VERMAAT: What? Oh. 90? 35 CHAIRPERSON: $90,000,000
MS VERMAAT: Oh, million, okay, so not billion. Okay. Then I have to reduce this in my solutions. 40 CHAIRPERSON: It is the estimated cost.
MS VERMAAT: Okay. Estimated, but most those project, they go up. And the people of course that are against, they challenge the time saving, 45 they also, another group they go against international best practice and all the other things you have heard and still going to hear in the coming
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last few days. So the questions is, are we asking the right question? And one of the things I have always been wondering about anything with transport is where to they go and where do they come from? So if you think about it, it is of course the airport, which I still think is built 5 in the wrong location. Think about the future, (INDISTINCT 4.05) forced into quite (INDISTINCT 4.07) that I like to go to. And other industry and shopping malls in Kilbirnie, and of course, how my work commuting, just go to the inner city for the business and tourism. And I think also, more tourist attraction like (INDISTINCT 4.24) digital. I 10 do not know if you have been to the chocolate fish?
CHAIRPERSON: No, what is that?
MS VERMAAT: It is a really lovely café in Shelly Bay. It used to be on the 15 but it is even better now. It is on the other side. It is where the Māori settlement took over - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Oh, Shelly Bay, yes.
20 MS VERMAAT: Yes, it is lovely. I recommend, but going back. So yes, that generates a lot of traffic. But what would people actually – this is why I do not have a job, so I have a lot of time spending around community action and community projects. Where would people actually really like to go? And what would that be in the past, in our history? 25 [2.55 pm]
It would be local cafes, it would be local sport fields, it would be local shops, it would be local anything. And that is also where the world is 30 going I think. It goes from global to local and including, like, it is staying more at home and work from home, being closer to your family and friends and your neighbours. Get to know your neighbours in the first place.
35 It is about growing your own vegetables – I am a bit of a hippie. But it is about reducing what we use, reusing, recycling, but especially reducing, I think, so then we don’t have to go to those big shopping malls at all, which is, of course, the big corporates won’t like that. So the central question becomes then why are people wanting and needing 40 to go from A to B? And then the secondary question will be, if we need to go, what alternatives do we have?
So currently we are already pretty well off. We have got the Airport Flyer which is a lot faster and cheaper and it brings you all the way to 45 the Hutt. And even then it brings you past the railway station, you can jump on the train and you can reach the Kapiti Coast, Porirua and all
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the other places. And I have organised just recently a hui for lots of polytechnics, I advised all of them to take the Airport Flyer and they thanked me for it, because it was a lot cheaper and saved them money and then they could use it for students, et cetera. 5 And of course, there is public transport, although it is expensive, it takes very long, very long sometimes – that is why I bike – and infrequent at night and weekends. I risk my life then in the weekends or in the evenings, but and it is biking, it is unsafe. I know a lot of friends 10 that say “I would like to bike, but I’m not, because it is dangerous”. And walking, although it is not pleasant, if you walk along Adelaide Road it is just not nice the turn off (INDISTINCT 2.06.1) is notorious for walking because of all the fumes, et cetera.
15 And it is also very much, I think, a delay, if you want to cross Vivian Street – I have timed it – you have to wait for three minutes. You stand there with a group of 20 people waiting until all those cars have gone by. And if you are walking it is actually not that pleasant. Then you want to cross, you dangerously cross the road and there is another risk 20 there.
But now I am going to read out this – I don’t like reading things out, but I will because I found in my own documents, I like writing submissions, not many other people (ph 2.44). This piece of text that I 25 actually copied and pasted already twice, this is the third time. One time before a submission to the Wellington City long-term plan, it was I think until 2020 and I wrote that in November 2009 and that was the earlier consultation on the flyover ran by Fran Wilde in April 2009 whether it was going to be there at all. Clearly we are already a bit 30 further. And the only thing I did – I hope I did it everywhere – is just substituting “regional council” and “local council” for “central government” – easy.
So, “especially with inevitable changes in oil prices and availability 35 and the increasing costs, both financially and for the environment of carbon dioxide emissions central government should have the foresight to implement plans that will future proof transportation. Instead, NZTA builds again, on a traditional response to the city’s congestion problems while extensive research shows that building more roads and road 40 widening will not solve the problem”. And I refer to also in my earlier submission to Peter Newman and Jeff Kenworthy in 2007 – it is an excellent read, if you want to understand more alternatives and some statistics around it. “And of course those solutions will eventually even worsen it. Because if you build the roads, they will come, it is shown 45 over and over and over again. If you just move you cause the problems.
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And why is that? Because building more roads have caused cities to sprawl uncontrollably, making people even more dependent on cars”.
So that is I think a very, very clear reason why you don’t want to do it. 5 This plan, of course and including this one, not only did long-term plans, because I thought – do I need to cut this out? But no, “the plan also includes some suggestions for supporting and providing for safer cycling and walking and improvement for public transport”. It is interesting. I could just copy and paste it. However, these clearly do not 10 form the – at a council ECO – the government’s priority – sorry. NZTA has clearly made a decision to keep investing in cars and fails to recognise the change of times.
[3.00 pm] 15 There are ample reasons why we should try to become less dependent on cars and we need to be less dependent on foreign fuel sources and focus on health and safety benefits as well as the environment urban planning, social cohesion and space for recreation. 20 Furthermore, alternative modes of transport will drastically reduce costs associated with the city’s commuting infrastructure by reduced pollution, accidents, congestion, unnecessary space for cars and again (INDISTINCT 0.58). 25 If you’ll read it I’ll get thirstier.
Car dominated societies have shown to lack resilience, have higher health problems, obesity and depression, higher road accidents and 30 death tolls. Additionally, cities that do not provide viable transport alternatives will find it more difficult and will face higher costs to face oil depletion.
Studies show that worldwide transit based cities spend around 5-8 35 percent GDP on transportation, while heavily car base cities spend 12- 15 percent GDP on average. Higher costs are caused by car base travel needing more space than transit, does occupy expensive and productive lands. Seeing that government has estimated that it will have to spend over – I don’t know, I couldn’t fill that in – of its percent of its capital, 40 but it probably is quite a bit – it’s capital expenditure on transport only shows that the current government’s transport plans are on the wrong track.
And I would like to challenge the government to follow the rest of the 45 world and invest in greener transportation as many Wellingtonians have expressed in the surveys.
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What other solutions are there to address congestion? Alternative solution are shown successful internationally – I mean I come from Holland so I always say, “Oh Holland, Holland”, but actually there’s 5 lots of other places, including also America by the way that have been starting to take down those flyovers not only because the ones that were built in the 70s have concrete rot and it will be way too expensive to replace, it’s also shown they’ve built beautiful gardens and also all the traffic just disappears, just flows over in the roads everywhere around 10 and they made the place the – what else, I think the ghettos also disappeared because all the housing around it, the house prices went up and people lived a healthier life, there were less health problems around asthma – oh, well I can continue forever.
15 So some other solution would be to introduce a congestion tax – I don’t think I have to say a lot around that – but San Francisco have introduced it and also not only that, they’ve also invested the money directly (like it’s almost one on one), better transport, giving people an option to switch, so that’s an interesting one. 20 And to also to review the project development of way you run projects, so in Vancouver the city required five percent of the cost of the project would be spend on public spaces and social facilities, and of course it enhances the facilities for public goods and it also brings about a 25 change in thinking and planning.
You might think, “Oh, what does this have to do with the flyover”, I hope you see the relevance.
30 And of course the investment in light rail, rail can offer faster options than cars, they use their own lanes and they can move very – a lot of people at the same time, more than buses and it helps with the development of walkable centres and the introduction of electric rail is shown to also have an economic benefits. 35 Research shows that cities that have opted for new rail transit lines, properties values went up and local businesses attracted more customers instead of disappearing.
40 [3.05 pm]
So the other one is also of course promotion of walking and cycling which addresses a lot of the health benefits and reduces congestion – well you’ve talked probably to a lot of the groups, cycle where 45 Wellington and urban streets, but I didn’t put that in mine because I thought, “Oh yeah, this is a bit of a teaser”.
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There’s also a bonus point, I don’t know if you’ve heard about David Inger, he’s an Australian – he called himself a magician of – he’s not an urban designer but he’s the creator of “spaces” that’s how he calls 5 himself and he encourages communities to take it in their own hands to own their own neighbourhood and then start from there, but it doesn’t only work in smaller communities, you can apply to whole cities if you want to.
10 And what he suggests – I went to a workshop of him the other day – and you have to create “bumper spaces”, and I thought this is really good to say that here because it’s not cars (bumper on bumper), it’s creating places where people can meet and greet. Well if you are in your car bumper to bumper and you will not meet people, although you 15 honk at them and address it quite aggressively, but it’s more about – yes, meeting people, you know it maybe when you find your wife, when you did you meet your wife, well it wasn’t in a car, I can guarantee you.
20 And don’t we already have “bumper space”, isn’t that amazing, it’s right behind us, an enormous bumper space, and I do, I cycle around it, I cycle through it and meet a friend, we stop, we have a chat and we say “gidday” and we move on – I haven’t found my partner yet, but it will come. 25 And it is also – maybe other option is of course involving employers for alternatives, there’s lots of that going on, but somehow Kiwis are not able to take it on, there’s not enough trust by employers, but I think the government could play a good role in that to make that happen, 30 teleconferencing, working from home, part-time work, so that people have more time to spend in the community, but also helping them.
A friend of mine said that he works at Transpower he says “My company will always give us prepaid tickets for the airport flyer” 35 because it will – it saves them a lot of money and finally he goes to Auckland for a lunch appointment with John Key – this was actually true, he told me the other day – John Key, flies back, jumps on the eper (INDISTINCT 2.46) flier, gets back at the office within one hour/one and a half hours, so that’s a lot faster and less cost involved with a taxi. 40 So what – this is also dreaming up some things – what could we do if we free up that money from the flyover, that’s 900 million dollars – 90 – I’m so bad with numbers.
45 CHAIRPERSON: 90 million.
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DR VERMAAT: What?
CHAIRPERSON: 90 million, yes.
5 DR VERMAAT: Yes, 90 million – it’s a lot of money, I have no idea how much it is, if you live off the Benefit, I live off $70, this is because maybe that’s why I stay on benefit just as a test.
Well, number 1, I didn’t put it in writing, just put some money towards 10 world peace, but the other things maybe a bit more relevant to this topic – give students and people on a low income and beneficiaries a reduced price on buses, because it is a question that I didn’t fill in the end, sir, how much do you think a three zones cost on a bus? I don’t know how often you take bus, but do you know how much it is in wellington? 15 MR BAINES: 5 dollars.
DR VERMAAT: What?
20 MR BAINES: 5 dollars.
DR VERMAAT: It is, you take a bus sometimes? Yes, 5 dollars.
MR BAINES: Well 1 zone’s 2 dollars, is it not? 25 DR VERMAAT: What?
MR BAINES: Yes, 1 zone is 2 dollars, is it not?
30 DR VERMAAT: Yes, I think is a bit of a sliding scale, but its 5 dollars in cash and - - -
CHAIRPERSON: $2.50 from Courtney Place to here.
35 DR VERMAAT: Yes, that’s a lot of money.
MR……….: Yes, it is two dollars.
DR VERMAAT: It is, you can better walk. 40 MR……….: Well, I paid two dollars for that.
CHAIRPERSON: Well I got - - -
45 DR VERMAAT: Yes. And it’s $3.50 with a Snapper, although I think they do some dodgy things with the Snapper, I have – it’s conspiracy, but $5
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7898
cash so it’s $10 return, that’s why I bike because then I think, “Oh my, I can have at least two coffees” – yes, coffees are expensive too nowadays, but if you live on a minimum wage, so you work in town, you live in Miramar because there’s cheaper rent there or you live in 5 Housing New Zealand house and they put you there, you live on the bare minimum wage, which is, how much is that? Minimum wage, per day, eight hour day.
[3.10 pm] 10 CHAIRPERSON: $16 something, isn’t it, it went up to $18 I think recently.
DR VERMAAT: Yes, so I looked it up, it is $114 per day and that is including tax. So we end up with like $100. So if you have a return ticket of 15 $10, because a lot of those people cannot afford to top up their Snapper because it’s just too much in one go to pay towards that. So they end up paying at full price.
And that’s 10 percent of your wage so then you end up with $90 and 20 that’s only $450 per week and Greater Wellington has just announced that they are going to put up the price – great. That’s my grudge.
Cycling safety and improvement. There could be a lot of money spent there $9 million. Reduce bus prices overall for everybody apart from 25 the people who are on lower income and that’s the rationale of a lot of people including me, I even have a Toyota Hiace which is a bit strange to park in the city. But two people are cheaper off driving into town and even paying for parking than taking the bus which takes you five times longer anyway. 30 And invest in local businesses. So I live in Berhampore, that town centre is almost dead. We now have a café, we have a little restaurant which is great, but we only have a small little shop which I pay $3 for just a half a litre of milk while I only pay $2 for that in the New World. 35 So that’s not very vibrant and it gets dead. It’s just dead. So if you could invest more in those local businesses more people would actually be able to make a living.
And then my last point is a little bit out of the blue but it is housing 40 improvements because if people like to be at home and they can have their friends over because it’s warmer and nicer, they will also spend less time on the road, they want to be staying home. But that’s research that you need to do.
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So do these work, do these solutions actually work? Well, international practice again has shown that it works, by spending money on that it makes a huge increase and they are lot cheaper, a lot cheaper.
5 So we have benefits on many levels and again I don’t want to go into it, health, living environment, social cohesion, go on and on and on and some people still have to use the road but there is less congestion even if you don’t build the flyover.
10 So why are these simple straightforward solutions not looked at? And there were some questions that yesterday, I just asked myself a lot of questions. So there is not a clear cut answer but it perhaps has to do something with the decision making process. As I said it’s interesting to see that the roading around the highways is, of course, a decision of 15 the central government.
Public transport sits, however, in the hands of the Regional Council and they keep putting up the bus prices and then the local government, who is trying to make this city work and more and more pleasant, which 20 amazingly they have done so, and they wanted to put in a rail system. They wanted to make more cohesion not only – well, it’s also the north-southbound which are now crossing again with two highways still.
25 I moved here eight years when they were still building the Vivian Street exit/entrance and I thought, “What are they doing?” Well, it first went to Ghuznee so that wasn’t a good solution but it was all crazy and why were they taking down this heritage building. A lot of the decisions by central government goes against local government and 30 also Greater Wellington, and on those decisions they’re completely against each other. It is not something you can do anything about but it is something that a debate needs to happen.
So no holistic solution will ever be implemented with this division in 35 decision making. There’s too many stakeholders in higher levels, people like me, beneficiaries, people with impairment, elderly are not being enough involved. They always will have a minority speak. It will be the big businesses, the roading industry that will have their say. There’s a lot I feel, conspiracy again, there’s a lot more behind the 40 scene going on than we know and it is a shame.
[3.15 pm]
Because shouldn’t it be the Wellingtonians themselves that should 45 contribute (ph 0.10) to the solution for their city that suits them best. And that, of course, includes Greater Wellington but they like to sit in
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7900
Wellington, they like it to be a nice city, they l like to walk around the waterfront, they want to visit the Basin Reserve.
So why not let them work along, sit down, sit down with employers, 5 whatever, whoever is involved and then let the planners come in later to see what works best. And that works not only on a city scale, it works for my community, it works for universities. Talk to the people who really – talk to the students and they tell you what the quality of their programmes should be like. That was a previous job that I had. 10 So it’s not, it should really be giving the people a voice who needs it. There are so many people, I think it was 73 percent of the submissions were against the flyover, that’s a lot, that’s a very high percentage. And this I felt again, like, “Shall I send in the submission, shall I talk to 15 this hearing?” And I thought, “Yes, I will”. But again I feel it is a hollow call in the consultation and that’s a shame.
So do we really want a solution for Wellingtonians, tangata whenua of Aotearoa, the people of New Zealand and do we want a solution for our 20 future? Because what is it that people want, what is most important in our lives? You probably agree with me, it’s about health and wellbeing, it’s about security, financial shelter, warmth, food that some of the countries around us miss. It’s work/life balance, it’s friends and family, it’s recreation, it’s travel and new experiences, it’s happiness, 25 all round happiness And it includes lots, it doesn’t for traffic, you have to get there but does it include a flyover, does it include more money?
So just to round up, I think the central government needs a change of focus, focus from building a city around cars to designing it around 30 people and then only then will lead to a future of more liveable, more sustainable, better connected and safer cities that residents would like to see. So are we ready for a change in direction towards planning that truly makes Wellington more liveable, inclusive, resilient, compact, fine grained, better connected and I will throw in the rest. 35 And I challenge you as lawyers – not lawyers, sorry, how can I address you as lawyers – well, lawyers are more expensive maybe. To have the courage to put a hold on the building of the flyover and advise and encourage the central government to look at other solutions that support 40 the solutions around congestion. And then hopefully set an example for other cities in New Zealand but even internationally, I think we can do it.
So thank you for listening and I don’t know, have you got any 45 questions for me?
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CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Dr Vermaat. What is your doctorate in?
DR VERMAAT: That’s an interesting one.
5 CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I know, but it is just that I - - -
DR VERMAAT: No, I won’t do the whole – the things that I did then. It’s actually about the analysis of questions.
10 CHAIRPERSON: Of questions?
DR VERMAAT: Yes, question phrases.
CHAIRPERSON: Surprise, surprise. 15 DR VERMAAT: Yes, but not – no, well, semantically as well but it was from a logic linguistics and computer science perspective.
CHAIRPERSON: Hence the manner in which you presented your submission. 20 DR VERMAAT: You can do it, you can always do it.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you for that. So you obviously walk and use the busses a lot? 25 DR VERMAAT: I hardly use the bus.
CHAIRPERSON: You hardly use a bus?
30 DR VERMAAT: Well, it’s not fast, it’s not fast enough.
CHAIRPERSON: So you walk a lot.
DR VERMAAT: And there was the other thing that I didn’t put in, the price is 35 one thing but I don’t know, I don’t live in Miramar but I used to live all the way down south in Island Bay and I can bike from Island Bay, and it was really on the south coast, to the city within – well, it depends if it is a strong northerly or not – but in 20, 25 minutes and I’m not the fastest. If I take the bus over half an hour. 40 CHAIRPERSON: So you used to bike through here?
DR VERMAAT: Yes, it’s the safer option.
45 CHAIRPERSON: So where do you live now?
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7902
DR VERMAAT: I live in Berhampore, so not - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Whereabouts is that exactly?
5 DR VERMAAT: So it is also in the direction of Island Bay.
CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes.
DR VERMAAT: Just one suburb further. That’s another fight I am fighting 10 now, put Berhampore on the map because Island Bay thinks they own the - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Is that near the zoo somewhere?
15 DR VERMAAT: What?
CHAIRPERSON: Near the zoo?
DR VERMAAT: No, that’s more Newtown. 20 [3.20 pm]
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is further on.
25 DR VERMAAT: Well, it’s in between, it’s if you continue - - -
CHAIRPERSON: It’s passed there.
DR VERMAAT: - - - over Adelaide Road. 30 CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes, I see.
MS VERMAAT: Adelaide Road goes up the hill and then it comes down a little bit, and that is where burnpoor (ph 0.10) is. - - - 35 CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes.
MS VERMAAT: - - - You have got three sports parks and we have got everything. It is the best suburb ever. 40 MR BAINES: Well, am I right in thinking one of the main points that comes out of your presentation is that in when we are thinking about this, we should be asking the question, who benefits and who does not benefit?
45 MS VERMAAT: Yes.
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MR BAINES: Thank you.
MS VERMAAT: Well, I hope I inspired you.
5 CHAIRPERSON: That is a good question.
MR COLLINS: Yes, it is interesting that you are from the Netherlands and you biking, because I have biked quite a lot in the Netherlands and I have still got the two bicycles we bought there and - - - 10 MS VERMAAT: And they in the shed now?
MR COLLINS: Sorry?
15 MS VERMAAT: And they in the shed or?
MR COLLINS: They are on a boat in France actually, but anyway, I found biking in Holland very easy, obviously it is designed for it and you are completely free from the vehicles and so-on. But what I am getting to is 20 here, one of the objectives of this project is to encourage modal shift away from cars, particularly at peak times, so we have been thinking about what are the impediments to that. And in particular, we are talking about – you mentioned cycling and walking, thinking about what are the impediments. Now, through the Basin at the moment, it 25 appears to be – people have told us it is a very pleasant place to bike around, inside the Basin here. It is sort of an oasis. Halfway through your journey, you have got a nice place to stop and, as you say, meet people and that is all great. And then in both directions there are the morning and afternoon bus lanes which you can use as a cyclist. So I 30 am interested in how that works as a cyclist. And what else is there that might encourage modal shift? Again, one of the issues is this project does not seem to have much new for cyclists in the Basin. You know, one of the routes round the outside is made – one of the footpaths becomes available for cyclists. 35 MS VERMAAT: Which part is that again, so?
MR COLLINS: On the east side. - - -
40 MS VERMAAT: Yes.
MR COLLINS: - - - The footpath against the trees on this side - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes. 45
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MR COLLINS: - - - would become a shared path. And then there is the east- west clip-on cycle route - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes, that is nice. 5 MR COLLINS: - - - which people have discussed a lot and - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes. And we would probably have to go up.
10 MR COLLINS: The whole bridge, it is a little bit up from over by the church, and then across on the level, and then you arrive at the new - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes.
15 MR COLLINS: - - - Memorial Park.
MS VERMAAT: But people have to do that anyway now, when they have to go to different turn off.
20 MR COLLINS: But the thing particularly about the route that you have been using, from Newtown and out in Barenpoor (ph 2.58) through the city, how does that work and is there any impediment? What could be done to make it better? Particularly, what can be done to encourage people who are currently driving their cars to use bus, cycle or walk? 25 MS VERMAAT: Yes. Well I am a very confident, first to address, like, how I feel it is around there. I am a very confident cyclist, so I do not mind taking up a bit more space just to make sure that cars see me, and even take more care like I do some interesting tricks that I advise everybody 30 to. I mean, I am not going to ride just in front of every bus and car, but especially coming north, you can speed up quite a bit because there is a bit of a slope, so I try to go as fast as I can. And I mean, I am fit enough, and being in the bus lane, but more on the right-hand side. So if I hear a bus coming, I even can move in a little bit in the car lane so 35 that the bus can come by, because I do not like – I sometimes sit in the bus nothing whereas if they have to stop. And the traffic, especially in the morning of the cars, is already quite jammed, so I even have to hold back on my bike to get along with it. They made a great improvement with the little ramp so I can go to the middle at the last moment, which 40 is the McDonalds, and then I can go over. The continuation is horrible, but yes, it is continues into Kent Terrace but you – just if you move – it just ends nowhere so you have to find your way across three lanes and to be in the left-hand side because you do not want to be in the right- hand side. On the way back - - - - 45 MR COLLINS: Are you saying that is on Kent Terrace?
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MS VERMAAT: Yes.
MR COLLINS: Right, okay. Coming home - - - 5 MS VERMAAT: Because you come – there is a little ramp again on the other side. You have to go up which is not even very level, so you bunk with your bike up there, and then you have a little bike lane that ends up nowhere, with these little bike sign and then you have to cross and go 10 left.
[3.25pm]
And then I even – I drive through the red light there when there is a 15 pedestrian crossing on green, because I can escape from those cars and make sure they are not on the left-hand side when I get honked at because I drive through a red light but I am from Holland so I am allowed to do that. But on the way back it is even worse because there is a lot traffic that wants to zoom around the Basin, and then I stay on 20 the left-hand side. Some friends of mine want to go on the right-hand side but I do not want to because there is all these parked cars that could fling their door open, and that is worst that can happen. So I have only had that once, oh, in the beginning, and I have lived here 8 years and never had any other accidents. Knocks and falls of course. 25 But then you have to cross three lanes to get into the middle to the Basin. So that is pretty scary. If you time it right there is no – yes, when there is no turns for Vivian Street then you can do it. And in that sense there will be no improvement there, even if there is a flyover. 30 MR COLLINS: So all that is very different from what - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes.
35 MR COLLINS: - - - you would experience in Holland is it not? I mean under the city. - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes.
40 MR COLLINS: - - - So tell us about what sort of thing could happen.
MS VERMAAT: Improvements? Well, I think it is wide enough. The thing, almost the problem with the attitude here is that they feel that you need to have the two lanes to have enough continuation. And I think by 45 narrowing it to one lane, and it could even start already on Riddiford Street in front of the hospital, does not mean that the traffic will go
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slower. Because you will just have the through there. That will give you one whole lane for buses and even narrowing it is also good practise. Narrower lane makes sure that the speed of cars will go slower, but you will just have that traffic flow still going. It is a visual 5 thing. There is now a lot of new practise by traffic engineers to even change the way that the lines are drawn, just to give a visual cue to drivers to pay more attention. It is really interesting. I went back to Holland two years ago and my eyes really opened because they do different things on rural roads than in the city. And it makes a big 10 difference because it becomes safer for drivers as well. And in that sense you want – it is a city you want the drivers not to speed too much. It becomes safer overall, cyclists, pedestrians, the total interaction. Once you do that, it already becomes quite safe and you have not even put in a cycle lane. But you have some space for a cycle 15 lane, because the interaction between buses and cyclists is not the best, because they are big, big ones. I would rather be in the traffic lane than in a bus lane. Then the pedestrian cyclists have been part of (INDISTINCT 3.25) left because it was so anti-cyclist. And I could not manage it, more because I am both. It is also not a good 20 combination because, yes, cyclists – I mean, you sometimes have to go on the footpath once in a while, but yes the pedestrians get frightened by cyclists.
But I think this is not everywhere, but especially on the stretch over at 25 Adelaide Road, there is definitely option to play with an extra bike lane. They have already – I am working with the city council, I have looked at their plans for it, because they are working on a bike lane all the way from Island Bay to the city. And they made some really interesting draw-ups on cycleway, Wellington. There is lots of options. 30 But again, you need to include the people who are involved. And it includes drivers, absolutely, and a positive attitude instead of trying to fight each other.
MR COLLINS: So where is it up to? We have heard that that is going on. 35 And so you are actually involved in that personally? There has been some consultation about routes - - -
MS VERMAAT: Yes.
40 MR COLLINS: - - - and what you would do?
MS VERMAAT: Yes, so the discussion – the city council have already approved that there will be a cycle lane, so that is really great. They will phase it in over the next 5 or 6 years which I think is an amazing 45 short time period. They have approved now of the cycle lane in Island Bay which is initially, I thought, well, is it necessary there? Because
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the parade – I do not know if you know, it is already quite wide. They drew up, but it is more – a bit vague, allowing – that shows cyclists are allowed. But they want to do it there because they want to show international best practice, so they are putting in a cycle lane which is 5 really following the idea that you put a bike lane in between - - -
[3.30 pm]
MR COLLINS: The moving lane and the cars, yes. It is different is it not 10 (INDISTINCT 24.4)?
DR VERMAAT: Yes, and that is right. Yes, it is like Holland. And I think that is great. Some people who are in Island Bay can then choose to go to the New World there on their bike. There is already a lady – I am so 15 good in side tracking – there was a lady who was like, I think in her seventies, and she lives a bit further down in the Island Bay and she just goes to New World, doesn’t matter if it is all morning, she just takes the time and takes a lot of shopping. So if she can do it, other people can do it. And I think that the bike lane will really encourage the 20 parents with their kids to go around, just to have a little try-out, I mean, that is how I learned to bike. I was six years old and would go with my parents and go for a little bike ride.
And the continuation is now burned for (ph 1.09) but there is a lot of 25 residents who are really anti it. And I don’t completely understand that, but I think, again, there is then too much focus on the cyclists, while it should be a holistic view. Anything you do, whether you put in a cycle lane or a road, it needs to be for the benefit of all. Because that is another thing, I think, is a bit wrong with putting the roading decisions 30 here.
In Holland there isn’t even a rule, in other countries as well I think, that if you build a road, you have an order in which you look for whom you are building the road. So first you look at this stage – is this extension 35 of the road safe for pedestrians? Second in line – cyclists, third in line – bus, public transport and only at the last come the motorised vehicles.
So that is an interesting one and I think – I don’t know how the flyover came about, but of course the focus has been on motorised vehicles. 40 And then, okay, as an add-on we also put in an extra lane for the cyclists, but we might drop it off if it gets too expensive.
CHAIRPERSON: Very good, well, now, I think –afternoon tea time.
45 DR VERMAAT: Great. You deserve it.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7908
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. So thank you very much, Dr Vermaat, thank you for coming.
DR VERMAAT: You are welcome. 5 CHAIRPERSON: And giving us your ideas.
ADJOURNED [3.30 pm]
10 RESUMED [3.53 pm]
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, welcome Mr Culy.
MR CULY: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, if you could just give your full name Mr Culy just for the record and then - - -
MR CULY: Yes, I’m Thomas Charles (INDISTINCT 3.45) Culy. 20 CHAIRPERSON: “Culy”, I’m sorry. When you’re ready.
MR CULY: I’m an owner of an apartment in the Grandstand building. You can probably see from the photo it’s the back one on the first floor so 25 it’s quite a flat there. So it’s on the first level sort of exactly where the proposed bridge is supposed to be – I think or maybe just below the bridge height. I don’t live there but it’s a rental property so it’s leased out. So with the proposal I think there’s supposed to be a small building built between where the bridge runs through and the building - 30 - -
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, we’re looking at the building – where’s the photo taken from?
35 MR CULY: It’s taken from just the park in front of the - - -
CHAIRPERSON: I see, yes the park. Yes. So it’s taken from the south - - -
MR CULY: So that’s the south wall on that side. 40 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR CULY: So there’s a deck above it and then the ground floor is just accessed from the car park and runs up through the building. So that’s 45 half the first floor, the size of the building.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7909
[3.55 pm]
CHAIRPERSON: And when you said there’s a deck – there’s a deck above - - - 5 MR CULY: There’s a deck – there’s sort of a parapet that runs around the top of the building and that joins up with the third floor so there’s no apartment there so that’s just a decked area.
10 CHAIRPERSON: I see, yes.
MR CULY: My apartment’s the one sort, yes, first floor up. And it runs all the way back through to the other side of the building.
15 CHAIRPERSON: And so it faces to the north?
MR CULY: Yes, so that’s the south side, east and then yes, the north, the north side there’s a building right up against it so there’s no windows on that side. 20 CHAIRPERSON: So this is the main – have you got a deck on the other side?
MR CULY: There’s no deck for this one.
25 CHAIRPERSON: I see, okay.
MR CULY: There’s windows on the eastern side of the building that faces out towards the liquor store across the road there.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR COLLINS: I think we’re told that the deck above belongs to the Cummins doesn’t it?
35 MR CULY: Yes, that’s the one. So their apartment runs through the whole floor and it runs - and the deck above so it’s just a parapet wall above it. Yes, I’ve currently got it rented out so I don’t live there so I guess the construction noise for the periods – and these are the three bedroom windows that are running along that side wall there. And it’s going to 40 be quite – for the tenants, I’m scared the tenants would move maybe when the construction period’s going and when it’s completed as well it’s going to cause noise of vehicles – vehicle noise in the – that’s there.
Yes, so my – at this stage it’s all tenanted. There’s tenants living in the 45 property, but yes, it will definitely cause some effects once it’s built there. And there’s a proposal for a building. I’ve been in
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7910
communications I think it was Greg Lee who’s the designer? Yes. And I’ve sort of had some communications with him regarding the building that’s between the bridge and the apartment. So I think the original one was actually going to block out those three bedroom 5 windows. I’m not sure – he was talking about maybe designing it so it could still let light in because if they were taken out there would be no light and ventilation for those three bedrooms on that wall. So that was a bit of a concern there.
10 Yes and I guess the construction noise for the period of time it’s running is going to be a – yes. So that’s sort of my point of view regarding it.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. 15 MR CULY: I guess the effect on the tenants they might move out or I may have to reduce the rent quite a lot for that period when the construction or what the sound – I know the body corporate’s done a submission as well. They’ve got a noise engineer to monitor what the noise is going 20 to be before and after the construction and the road’s built. Is there anything else you want to know from me?
MR MCMAHON: Mr Culy, how long have you owned the apartment?
25 MR CULY: I’ve owned it since 2006. And it’s been a rental property since I’ve owned it.
MR MCMAHON: Yes. And without giving away any commercial secrets what sort of duration of tenancy does it typically have? Have you had 30 stable tenants over that time?
MR CULY: Yes it’s been full most of the time it’s been there. I’ve had – at the moment I’ve got – I lease it to someone and then they rent it out because there’s quite a few rooms in there – they rent it out room by 35 room but there’s quite a number of bedrooms so it’s usually sort of students because it’s close to the university, Massey and things like that that rent it out. And it’s got these two bathrooms, a big kitchen, big lounge area. I think it’s roughly just under 300 square metres.
40 MR MCMAHON: Right. So when you purchased it were the buildings that were on Bogart’s corner – were they still in place?
MR CULY: Yes, they were still there. There was – that building was right in front of it but you could still – the windows could still be opened and 45 there was – it sort of looked out over those – I think they were about
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7911
two storeys high, but they still had light and you know ventilation for those windows.
MR MCMAHON: Yes we heard from I think it’s Miss Ralph (INDISTINCT 5 4.58) who’s on the first or second - - -
MR CULY: First floor, right, yes.
MR MCMAHON: Who owns the first floor and she’s tenanted it also. 10 MR CULY: Tenanted, yes.
[4.00 pm]
15 MR MCMAHON: And she indicated that – can you recall what sort of gap there was between the two buildings?
MR CULY: There was definitely – I guess the roof pitch went like that, so there is probably at least a couple of metres between the two buildings, 20 I think, yes.
MR MCMAHON: And like you, she had indicated that she had been in discussions with the NZTA, perhaps Mr Lee, - - -
25 MR CULY: Yes.
MR MCMAHON: - - - in relation to whether the windows might be kept free should the proposal proceed and where are you at with your discussions on that with Mr Lee? 30 MR CULY: There is an email there that has to do with the last discussions I have, I think, on the back page, and he said he is talking to the architects at the moment about Athfield, I think Athfield, project Athfield, of a way of designing it to still be able to have those windows 35 – that there would be lighting, that you would still be able to open them at least and have some light coming through. I am not sure. I have not seen exactly what that building would look like or what height it is going to. So I am not sure how it is going to affect those windows. But yes, Nicole is the ones right on the front there, she has got a window on 40 that side.
MR MCMAHON: Yes, I see, so Mr Lee is proposing a condition that would guide the design in relation to allowing windows to open.
45 CHAIRPERSON: Yes. What condition is that?
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7912
MR MCMAHON: Sir, it only appears on the last page at this stage.
MR CULY: Yes, there is an email, that is the one, I think, from April.
5 CHAIRPERSON: Oh, you have got it here. It is not in the conditions?
MR……….: I do not know. I do not know.
MR...... : Well that is the question. 10 MR CULY: Yes, he is in discussions with the architects, he says. So he has not a way of designing it, that would be – and I think just the noise factor is going to be quite bad as well. I guess through the construction period, I am not sure how long is the construction period for the 15 bridge?
MR MCMAHON: Well, we have heard that it could be in the vicinity of 30 months.
20 MR...... : 30 months, plus or minus.
CHAIRPERSON: 32. About 30 months, - - -
MR CULY: Okay. 25 CHAIRPERSON: - - - two months either way.
MR CULY: All right. So that is going to be quite disruptive for the tenants that are in the property, just I think from the drilling noise and 30 everything. And then I guess after it, when it is complete, the motorway; noise of the cars as well.
MR MCMAHON: So - - -
35 MR...... : Sorry. I was just going to - - -
MR MCMAHON: Can I ask are you concerns primarily focused on the construction period or do you also have an additional concern relating to the operational ongoing - - - 40 MR CULY: Yes. I think construction period is probably going to be noisier than when the motorway is finished. It is hard to sort of judge it now, but yes, they are both – yes.
45 MR MCMAHON: Okay.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7913
MR COLLINS: So there is nothing on your title giving you right to the light on those windows? It is strange having three bedrooms with windows that – well, it sounds like according to the email from Greg Lee that their understanding is they could build a building up there and just put 5 it right against your building?
MR CULY: Yes, I think - - -
MR COLLINS: That is how it is. 10 MR CULY: - - - you can do that. Do you know what the building is designed for? The small building between the motorway and the - - -
MR COLLINS: It is shown as retail, but they will not have an active frontage, 15 so it is shown as having glass. I think the simulations show vehicles inside, there may be a car showroom, but there is no indication of what the tenants would be, I think there is actually two tenancies, I think, proposed.
20 MR CULY: All right, yes.
MR COLLINS: But they are wanting, in design terms, to have open windows and lit at night to look active.
25 MR CULY: Yes. And how far away is the motorway running from the building or the bridge?
MR COLLINS: The building is underneath it - - -
30 MR CULY: I see, okay.
MR COLLINS: - - - with one of the supports through the building. - - -
MR CULY: Okay, yes. 35 MR COLLINS: - - - An interesting design issue.
CHAIRPERSON: So you will be a – well, I did not know that motorway – as far as your southern windows are concerned will be above you and at 40 about eight metres out.
MR CULY: Oh, right.
CHAIRPERSON: Is that right? 45 MR CULY: The top of the flyover.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7914
MR COLLINS: Yes, the flyover will be higher - - -
MR CULY: Higher, yes. 5 MR COLLINS: - - - and eight metres away. Approximately the building under the bridge would extend - - -
CHAIRPERSON: It might a little bit more than eight metres because of the 10 curvature of it.
MR CULY: Okay.
MR COLLINS: Yes, a bit curving away. 15 CHAIRPERSON: Have you looked at this letter from Mr Lee? This proposed condition?
[4.05 pm] 20 MR CULY: Yes. So I have not talked to him or had discussions since that email from him. If there is a way of designing it, it is going to still let light into his windows, that is going to be - - -
25 CHAIRPERSON: Well who is proposing to insert a condition if in the event of the proposal being granted, which is set out in A there, the detailed design of the roof will, if practicable and appropriate, allow windows on the southern facia of Grandstand apartments building to open.
30 MR CULY: Yes, so that would be - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well the words practical and appropriate means it is up to them to decide whether or not, it is what you call a Clayton’s position. 35 MR CULY: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: It means nothing, or could mean nothing.
40 MR CULY: Yes.
MR COLLINS: But we cannot give legal advice.
CHAIRPERSON: No we cannot give legal advice. I am not giving legal 45 advice, it is just logical.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7915
MR CULY: Yes, so that is sort of – that is one of the – so the lights and ventilation for those three bedrooms, that is a big concern of mine as well as, I guess, - - -
5 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR CULY: - - - the noise when it is under construction - - -
CHAIRPERSON: Looking at your plan, how many bedrooms have you got 10 there?
MR CULY: It is about 10 bedrooms.
CHAIRPERSON: Oh 10. So it is sort of like a student flat. 15 MR CULY: Student flat, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Big student flat.
20 MR CULY: And we have got two bathrooms and a big kitchen, so it is - - -
CHAIRPERSON: So your concerns of course, are the – because you do not live there, your concerns mainly are the effect it is going to have on your - - - 25 MR CULY: I guess - - -
CHAIRPERSON: On your rental, - - -
30 MR CULY: - - - on the value of the rental investment, the value of the building - - -
CHAIRPERSON: - - - on your value of the building. - - -
35 MR CULY: - - - and the tenants potentially moving out.
CHAIRPERSON: - - - And the rental.
MR CULY: - - - The rental and you have still got body corporate and rates 40 and mortgage insurance to cover, yes. When is the proposed start date of the bridge?
CHAIRPERSON: Well no one knows yet.
45 MR CULY: No one knows yet.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7916
CHAIRPERSON: Because it has not been granted yet.
MR CULY: Okay, yes.
5 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it depends on whether it is granted and then they will have to make a decision then.
MR CULY: Yes. Well I grew up in Mt Victoria so I know the area pretty well, - - - 10 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR CULY: - - - and personally, I think the bridge is not, you know, I drive this way a couple of times a day and I grew up in Mt Vic, so personally 15 I think the bridge is not going to probably, I guess, the traffic issues are not going to do too much to the traffic issues around the tunnel.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry?
20 MR CULY: It would not affect the traffic, the amount of traffic flowing through the tunnel and going through to Newtown. There is still going to be – I am not sure if it going to make it flow easier than it is currently.
25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well. Is there anything else you wish to add?
MR CULY: That is pretty much the – yes, the gist of what my thoughts are, yes.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Has anyone got any further questions?
MR...... : No.
MR...... : No. 35 MR...... : No, I think we have covered them really.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, well thank you Mr Culy, thank you very much for coming and sharing with us your concerns. 40 MR CULY: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Now we have Mr Chris Stephenson. Ah yes, I remember, yes. Another Grandstand apartment. 45 MR STEPHENSON: Correct.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7917
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR STEPHENSON: Gentlemen, I do not know if it appropriate or not, but 5 there is just one real issue that Tom has got that you may not be aware, that he is not a developer, he has bought the place. But the council demands that each bedroom has to have light and an opening window. So for instance, if he could not do what he is hoping to do along that southern side, he would lose those bedrooms whether it is three or two 10 or five, I do not know. But, it is something that he would, should endorse.
CHAIRPERSON: Does it have to be a window on the side? Or can it be a - - -
15 MR STEPHENSON: No it - - -
CHAIRPERSON: - - - be a window at the top?
MR STEPHENSON: - - - could be a window - - - 20 CHAIRPERSON: - - - On the roof?
MR STEPHENSON: - - - Possibly. I do not know whether the tenant upstairs would be keen to have a window, or the person below. 25 CHAIRPERSON: Oh yes, there is a deck upstairs is there not?
MR STEPHENSON: Yes.
30 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, of course, yes.
MR STEPHENSON: Yes, no, it is a bit practically - - -
CHAIRPERSON: I do not think those in the bedroom would want one either. 35 MR STEPHENSON: No, exactly. Would not want binoculars upstairs, possibly. Wonderful times.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well. 40 [4.10 pm]
MR STEPHENSON: So, sorry – I have already started but I have not. - - -
45 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7918
MR STEPHENSON: - - - So, do I go?
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for that. Yes, thank you. Welcome along Mr Stephenson. 5 MR STEPHENSON: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: It is good to meet you again, yes.
10 MR STEPHENSON: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: So if you can just give your full name and give us your submission.
15 MR STEPHENSON: Full name is Christopher James Stephenson and I live in the penthouse on the top of Grandstand apartments which I developed with my son who is the builder there. I have lived and worked in the area for about 45 years. For over 20 years I had a car yard across the road which was very good for observing cricket before they put the 20 banks up many years ago. Sir Michael Fowler used to come over and have his gin there with us. And quite a bit of history there, I had an air raid siren which used to wake me up in the army which came to my possession and we used to do that every time there was an important over at the test we would, Hadley would come in with the - - - 25 CHAIRPERSON: How did it come into your possession?
MR STEPHENSON: Ah… Do I have to talk to you about this?
30 CHAIRPERSON: No.
MR STEPHENSON: It woke me up every morning for some time, so many weeks.
35 CHAIRPERSON: Anyway, we will not go there.
MR STEPHENSON: It was stolen from me, actually. And unfortunately, I could not go to the police about it.
40 CHAIRPERSON: So what goes around comes around.
MR STEPHENSON: Right, so yes, I was over there across the road there, for over 20 years. And then 10 years ago or so I was lucky enough to be offered the air space for this building. The building was originally built 45 for to have another 2 storeys on it, and it was never completed. And then it had several different owners. Originally it was the builder’s
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7919
federation had actually built the building. And they never did the extra two floors and I bought the air space 10 or 11 years ago and built 2 penthouses up here, which you gentlemen, I think all of you have had a chance to have a look at, see the wonderful views, et cetera, sun, 5 everything else that goes with it.
I was planning to build another level on it this year, but of course, with what is going on it is probably pretty not practical. So I would have to have a rethink on that as to what are the outcomes of our decision of 10 course, and many other decisions that one has to make. The north apartment has fantastic sun from day till one to the end, and the south one has obviously a stunning views. So if you were standing in there you are just looking at the Basin Reserve. It is totally unique, you would swear that it is your backyard. And I am going to lose all that 15 and it is quite – I am a bit disturbed about this wonderful place that I have lived in, been involved with all my life and that they have actually sort of prostituted themselves possibly, would be the word, to take this so-called $11,000,000 Grandstand and to get some value out of it, like, we are not being offered any value whatsoever at this stage, and it also 20 blocks my view. But it is an unusual scene to think that they can do that, which really is not – well I just find it a bit foreign that is all, compared when we – we are struggling to get any good news out of the NZTA.
25 I suppose you come to the noise and vibrations really, which is going to, without question going to happen. During and after the construction my units will be badly affected by noise and vibrations. I already have hush glass to NZTA – So the proposal that they put up to us to double- glaze the building, this is the body corp, which has now been 30 withdrawn, would be no use at all to my units. Just recently there has been a small machine drilling, I think, to determine location of water table in the property, just to the south of the building. Virtually next door. And the noise and vibrations were quite noticeable from the unit despite high soundproofing. And the real issue happened about, I 35 suppose in the last 18 months when they actually pulled the building down that had been there for many years, the demolition team went in there, they were there for 2 or 3 weeks. I had to move out of my place and so did my tenant. The noise just in that was quite staggering. And that was just next door. So I do not know what it is going to be like 40 with the construction of this big effort that they are going to do.
I am certainly not against the fact that we are – you know, progress has got to happen. But anyway. So once the flyover is in operation the traffic will be considerably nearer and faster than it was before. And 45 when there is traffic on the flyover, that is when the traffic is on you.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7920
The idling engines and honking horns will be significantly closer to my windows.
[4.15 pm] 5 It will be quite noisily, just the fact that I can’t work out how they – we’re about 10-20 metres away, is that right, from the motorway itself.
CHAIRPERSON: I think, yes, from the corner of your building, it is about 10 eight metres.
MR STEPHENSON: Eight metres, yes.
MR BAINES: Eight metres is the nearest point. 15 MR STEPHENSON: I’m staggered that they don’t offer to purchase things or come to some arrangement, because I know there’s been – it must be the closest building that’s ever been constructed next to Highway 1 for sure. Whether they are getting a bit shy, I’m not sure what they’re 20 doing, but I really must protest about that.
Mr Hegley feels the traffic noise will be slightly reduced for most of the building, but I feel it will be increased for my units, as the noise will travel up from the closest road to the obviously closer surface. 25 Mr Hegley feels that there may be no amount of sound proofing that can provide the residents of Grandstand Apartments with an acceptable level of indoor noise during the lengthy construction phase, and residents will need to be either relocated or the building purchased. This is referring to Hegley’s submissions, page 5, clause 5.7. 30 The NZTA made an offer to pay for soundproofing to the Body Corp of Grandstand Apartments which has since been withdrawn. The offer was conditional on many other things, all owners giving up their rights to ask for compensation on the noise and vibration from the Public 35 Works Act. Staggering. To me it seems that this is NZTA admitting that they don’t expect the sound proofing to work.
Loss of view. After the construction of my units will suffer from severe visual pollution. The construction phase will clutter view with 40 equipment, scaffolding, trucks, et cetera. The flyover structure itself cuts outs views of green spaces. The green screen, not even a sound barrier, and unlikely to be able to grow plants on it is also ugly. And I just don’t understand who the intellectual giant was who thinks that’s going to be great, how could you seriously look out when you’ve got 45 windows to look into this green screen – he tells me it’s to stop people looking into the lower apartments windows. I said well for a long time
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7921
there has been curtains, and why this screen has got to go there I don’t understand it.
The new grandstand for the cricket grounds substantially blocks views 5 of the cricket ground, especially if the longer option is adopted. I can see, as you are probably aware, the whole ground from the southern apartment, and from my own balcony I can get 60 percent of the ground, which I will lose completely, plus all green areas.
10 Unique view, which was the main reason behind building a penthouse in the first place, will be obliterated by this project.
Air quality. During the operation phase my units will be subject to significantly worsened air quality. The air quality during the 15 construction phase is likely to suffer. The NZTA has even agreed to the draft conditions documents at DC29 to clean cars and entire buildings affected by the dust caused from the construction. At present the traffic is effectively about five storeys below my units, the air quality is quite good, as relatively little pollution floats up that they are 20 higher, a northerly is normally acting to of course.
Once the flyover the effect will be as though my units are significantly closer to the ground and there will be significantly more pollutants in the air. 25 When there are traffic jams on the flyover the fumes from the idling engines will affect units very badly. A ventilation system will most likely become necessary, whereas at the moment one can just open the windows. Even if the air quality meets the required standards at all 30 times, the air quality for my units will be significantly worse than it was before the project. This will cause damage to me personally in standard of living, and financially in the value of the units.
Light pollution. During both the construction and operation phases my 35 units will suffer from increased light pollution. During the operation phase there will be construction lighting and during the operation phase there will car headlights and street lights, all significantly close to the windows of my units than they were before.
40 NZTA asserts that the street lights will point down, so as to not allow light to escape into my units. However, the street lights are shining down into highly reflective cars. Even if the lighting meets the required standards at all times, my units will suffer from more light pollution than they did before the project, and I will suffer personally 45 from the effects on my sleep and financially in the value of the units.
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7922
[4.20 pm]
Length of the construction phase. Three years and you have just mentioned it might be 30 months or 32 is an extraordinarily long time 5 for me to deal with the effects and disruption of construction and the economics pressure of being unable to tenant either of my units, having to find alternative accommodation for myself.
I have rented those two units, the southern unit is rented for $750 and 10 has been from the day we started and the time that I moved out for a couple of months when I went overseas I was getting $1,000 for the northern unit, that’s where I live.
Privacy. Both my units will be deprived of the privacy they currently 15 enjoy on the balconies once the flyover is in operation. One of the valuable features of both my units is private balconies with stunning views. At present the balconies are very private, simply because they are so high and above the road surface and any surrounding buildings of similar height. Once the flyover is in operation there will be 20 significantly more cars significantly closer to the balconies as well a pedestrian and cycle access where people in all forms of transport can look up and see the balconies clearly as they come along the road.
Because my balconies are higher than the windows than the other units 25 the green screen will not prevent this unless it is built to go over the top of the flyover as well as along the side. When you add the lack of view and the noise and air pollution, the lack of privacy will render these balconies almost valueless and I may as well have built the units with bigger rooms. 30 Economic impact. The combined effects of the construction and operation phases of the project will severely impact the value of my units and my income. No tenants will want to live in the units during the construction phase and they certainly won’t supply the rents that I 35 have enjoyed or it is worth. I will not want to live in the units during the construction phase and will have to make alternative living arrangements.
Once the flyover is in operation and the view is no longer a factor it 40 will be much harder to get tenants for the units and the rent that they will be willing to pay will be much lower due to the lack of view, diminished privacy and more noise and air pollution.
I will not want to live in the units once the flyover is in operation. 45 Should I wish to sell the units it will be impossible to find a purchaser willing to purchase before the uncertain construction phase is complete
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7923
and it will be difficult to find a purchaser after the flyover is in operation and the price they would be willing to pay for the apartment, with a working flyover in such close proximity with no particular desirable view would be much less than what you would have paid for 5 the same unit before.
The economic impact of this project on me will be serious and will continue for many years. The conclusion of all this is that I feel my loss simply cannot be adequately compensated or mitigated. My 10 preference would be for the application to be declined but if that does not occur I would like Grandstand Apartments as a whole to be included in the designation obliging NZTA to buy both my units at a fair market value prior to the construction phase had begun.
15 Optional. At the very least I would like the Board of Inquiry to add a condition to the draft conditions that establishes a process whereby adverse effects on business, including individuals, companies, partnerships or associations and individual owners can be assessed and compensation paid where business can be demonstrated a loss of 20 customer or a failure of the business, loss of viability. Or owners can demonstrate a loss of value and/or rent on the properties as a result of the adverse effects of the construction of the flyover. Anything less it just isn’t cricket.
25 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well, thank you, Mr Stephenson, and having made the site visit to your apartments give us a better understanding of - - -
MR STEPHENSON: How bitter I am.
30 CHAIRPERSON: In fact I was watching the cricket, the test match against India and I think I saw you or saw someone on one of the balconies.
MR STEPHENSON: I’m a fat person.
35 CHAIRPERSON: Observing the cricket during the lovely weather we had that weekend.
MR STEPHENSON: It was wonderful, sir, yes. Do you have any questions?
40 MR BAINES: No, I think it is all stated fairly clearly and we have visited your apartment as well so - - -
MR STEPHENSON: Thank you.
45 MR MCMAHON: Mr Stephenson, I have got one question, I have been asking all of the owners and tenants of the Grandstand Apartments the
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7924
same question, it concerns the green screen and this question is not meant to diminish your opposition to the proposal.
MR STEPHENSON: Sure. 5 MR MCMAHON: But if the proposal was to proceed would it be your preference that there was a green screen or not a green screen?
[4.25 pm] 10 MR STEPHENSON: Well, I don’t – it doesn’t really affect me as much as it affects the others, and I would go with the majority of view of what the other people say, but if I was two/three storeys further down I would definitely not want it there, although I can’t understand why anyone 15 wants it there and I can’t see any benefit of it at all.
MR MCMAHON: Thank you.
MR STEPHENSON: Or a pink one. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much Mr Stephenson, thank you, and we understand your concerns perfectly and thank you for coming and - - -
25 MR STEPHENSON: Thank you your Honour.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, now we have Mr Hyde?
MR HYDE: Yes, your Honour. 30 CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR HYDE: Thanks very much for bringing my opportunity to speak to you forward, it just frees up a day which otherwise I would have had to 35 allocate for tomorrow afternoon so I do appreciate that.
My name is Neville John Hyde, I’m the Corporate Advisor of Centre Port Limited, the port company in Wellington. We’re very pleased to have this opportunity to present our position which is one of support for 40 the Basin Bridge proposal.
As you can appreciate efficient land transport infrastructure is not only key to today’s freight needs, but it’s more important that it is able to meet the future projections. 45
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7925
We’re the third largest port in New Zealand by volume, taking account of the inter-island ferries and we are one of the largest economic generators, we support something like 1 billion dollars of GDP benefit within the region and we move through the port something like 11 5 million tons per annum, so we’re a pretty significant generator of economic benefit for Wellington and the wider region.
The efficient movement of people and freight is vital to the requirements of performance for the region, economy and the port. 10 Centre Port’s effectiveness is a key port for inter-island ferry traffic and international market trade, it’s dependent on quality road and rail connections.
When you appreciate the 99 percent of New Zealand’s international 15 freight moves by sea you can understand the importance of the port and of course its connections with road and rail.
As an island nation without ports there would be no modern economy or society because New Zealand lives by trade within the global 20 market.
Ports vital to the international trade sector and the maintenance of our first world living standards and in recognition of this the government has, over the last few years placed a great deal of emphasis on roading 25 and meeting the requirements of freight movement. And in fact, they did a study in 2008, known as “The National Freight Demand Study”, they have just updated that and that study has indicated that over the next 30 years the national freight task is likely to increase by 58 percent, so 58 percent more movement of freight in 30 years’ time than 30 what we are experiencing at the moment.
Ensuring that road development anticipates this growth and occurs in advance of it is essential. Every year approximately 730,000 heavy vehicles move across the State Highway network at the fringe of 35 Wellington City, with a large percentage of those interfacing with a port, and this number is expected to grow to beyond a million vehicles and the existing transport system will face intense pressure as a consequence.
40 The Wellington region needs a holistic integrated roading outcome. Centre Port has expressed strong support for all facets of the government roads of national significance, in particular those relative to the Wellington region.
45 For a transport network to be fully functional all aspects of the RoNS program needs to be delivered, supported by addressing key highway
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7926
connector routes and modal interfaces and what I mean by “modal interfaces” is the connection of those roads with rail, sea and air.
The Basin Bridge proposal is viewed by Centre Port as a key 5 component of the overall RoNS, Levin to Wellington ports – and we’ve been arguing with NZTA that it should be plural rather than singular, in that the seaport is as important as the airport in terms of this initiative in terms of a RoNS project.
10 [4.30 pm]
Although port freight movements are predominantly concentrated to and from the north of the port entrance via Aotea Quay, the free movement of all traffic is pivotal to the efficient freight movement 15 overall. Any bottleneck on the Aotea Quay to airport segment of State Highway 1, will create congestion. The Basin Bridge proposal as a key component of this segment, is critical in relieving transport congestion.
CentrePort asserts that the efficiency created by the Basin Bridge 20 Proposal along with a future Aotea Quay to Airport segment of State Highway 1 will lead to a reduction in the volume of passenger vehicles using Aotea Quay and the waterfront route, as their arterial connection to the eastern and southern suburbs.
25 This will result in reduction of general traffic volumes and enable – this is along these quays - and enable the freer movement of the rapidly growing freight vehicle movement servicing the port and it will also facilitate the removal of conflicts between road and rail.
30 And just a comment in terms of – you m ay have read in the papers or be aware that Centre Port is receiving a lot more cargo these days by rail, it used to be something like 80 percent of our trade was moved by rail, it is now l30 percent, but what that is doing is it is increasing the efficiency of the port and the services it is able to offer which means 35 we are getting more shipping services and of course, with that comes the domino effect in the delivery by road of other containers and the distribution of containers within the wider region.
So as much as we are getting more movement by rail, it is actually also 40 increasing by road for some time.
Accordingly, CentrePort fully supports the Basin Bridge Proposal and does not consider the need for specific conditions other than that the Basin Bridge Proposal fully integrates with the delivery of the Levin to 45 Airport RoNS initiative. So really what we are saying is we are looking for the delivery of the whole package and we are concerned
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14 Page 7927
that if a part of that package is not delivered, that it will have consequences elsewhere within that loading network.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much Mr Hyde, thank you, for the 5 taking of your time to address us. Are there any questions.
MR BAINES: I am interested to ask, Mr Hyde, good afternoon, you made it very clear, your interests in the port centre is in the RoNS, thinking of the Wellington RoNS? 10 MR HYDE: Yes.
MR BAINES: You have mentioned Aotea Quay to the Airport segment, Aotea Quay is the one that goes past the port itself, is that correct? 15 MR HYDE: Yes, past the Westpac Stadium and the port, that’s correct.
MR BAINES: Right, and then connects - - -
20 MR HYDE: - - - connects into Waterloo, Jervois and then carries on around through to the Mount Victoria Tunnel, around the bays.
MR BAINES: And are you saying that there is significant traffic that goes from the port itself? 25 MR HYDE: No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is there is significant traffic that uses that arterial corridor to get to the southern and eastern suburbs.
30 MR BAINES: Right.
MR HYDE: With the RoNS’ project, with dual tunnelling and better road infrastructure, people will not take that route by preference because it will be a lot slower and less efficient to do so. That then releases that 35 route for the heavy industrial traffic that we would like to see it earmarked for.
MR BAINES: Have the industrial traffic going from the port to?
40 MR HYDE: to and from the port and the rail yards.
MR BAINES: And going north?
MR HYDE: All going north, there is very little travel. 45
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MR BAINES: So I mean, we are charged with looking at this project which is about a new piece of roading infrastructure from Paterson Street over there, to Buckle Street over here with two lanes of traffic going in one direction, going easterly, and I am interested – and I can understand 5 entirely what you are saying about the overall RoNS project, do you expect the Basin Bridge Project itself, which we are charged to make a decision on, to have any affect at all on the port’s interests?
MR HYDE: I think if you have got an inefficient portion of that total delivery, 10 I has the potential, as we see every morning at the state highway tunnel, on the main State Highway 1, you see the congestion as a consequence of a bottleneck there. If you don’t put in proper infrastructure further down the line, you will see a similar sort of bottleneck occurring further along the roading network, sorry, I was talking about The 15 Terrace Tunnel.
[4.35 pm]
MR BAINES: The tunnel you’re referring to is the Terrace tunnel? 20 MR HYDE: The Terrace tunnel’s what I was trying to get to, yes.
MR BAINES: Right.
25 MR HYDE: What I’m saying is we need to deliver everything. Dual Terrace tunnel, the Basin project, dual Mount Victoria tunnel and the connector roads all the way through to the airport.
MR BAINES: Because your concern is addressing congestion at, in a sense, at 30 every point along that corridor?
MR HYDE: Yes, if you’ve got an inefficient component in that corridor you will create congestion or a pinch point.
35 MR BAINES: Right, okay. Thank you.
MR COLLINS: And the point of that is that the intention would be to divert traffic away from Aotea Quay onto the RoNS?
40 MR HYDE: Correct. It’s like a bypass to the city and a lot of people at the moment because of the congestion at the Terrace tunnel they take that route as an alternative. Sometimes it’s actually quicker. But if there’s a proper well-formed highway right through to the airport then people will not take that route. 45 MR COLLINS: And the current situation, is it just a peak hour problem?
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MR HYDE: It’s generally peak hour, yes.
MR COLLINS: Yes. Okay because the other aspect of that is that one the 5 objectives of this project is to encourage modal shift and so encourage people to use public transport in relation to Aotea Quay. So you’re saying there’s probably not - - -
MR HYDE: I don’t see that as something that would benefit us other than 10 perhaps the delivery of passengers to the ferry operators.
MR COLLINS: Yes.
MR HYDE: That’s probably the only area where a public transport system 15 might be of some benefit to the port but beyond that our main interest is in freight movement and that is not a public transport option.
MR COLLINS: Okay, thank you.
20 MR MCMAHON: Thank you, Mr Hyde. That’s clear, no questions from me.
CHAIRPERSON: And thank you very much indeed for your assistance.
MR HYDE: It’s a pleasure. 25 CHAIRPERSON: So that brings us to the end of today does it? Yes, well we’ll adjourn until 9.30 tomorrow morning.
MATTER ADJOURNED AT 4.37 PM UNTIL 30 WEDNESDAY 28 MAY 2014
Basin Reserve, Wellington 27.05.14