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The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project PAUL KREISBERG Interviewed by: Nancy Bernkopf Tucker and Warren I. Cohen Initial interview date: April 8, 989 Copyright 998 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction Columbia niversity, China studies Joined Foreign Service 1952 (ombay, India 1953-1954 Tai,an 1955 Chinese language studies, -andarin Tension bet,een Tai,anese and mainlanders .elocations ,ith Ambassador Drumright .S. 0 Tai,anese relations Tai,an Strait crisis of 1954-5 Hong 1ong 1955-1929 Political officer Chinese internal developments and change (ritish vie,s on Chinese intentions re Hong 1ong Principal Concerns of S Consulate Chinese refugees Policy of 3no contact ,ith mainland China nationals4 No indications of any change in mainland China stability Dulles-Ale6 Johnson 3bathroom4 story .uth (acon Secretary of State .us7 opposes change in China policy Alleged effort to assassinate 8hou Enlai en route to (andung conference CIA .ay Cline Chinese attitude to,ards possible Tai,an evacuation of islands Soviet attitude to,ards China lu7e,arm :alter .obertson doubts Soviet 0 China hostility Department of State 1920- 1 IN. 0 Internal Chinese Affairs No recollection of Pres. 1ennedy<s intentions re China Sino-India border issue IN. assessment of China<s intentions .us7 vie,s Chinese as e6pansionists 1922 Straits Crisis Office of Asian Communist Affairs Lindsey Grant 3annoys4 :hite House<s :illiam (undy -ongolia Tension ,ithin t,o China des7s Information on China via Hong 1ong No :hite House guidance .S. ready to rene, tal7s ,ith Chinese in :arsa, :hite House bypasses State Dept Preparing to negotiate ,ith the Chinese Japanese to be 7ept in the dar7 :ho is more paranoid, Ni6on or 1issinger? Congress not 7ept informed Chinese involvement in Vietnam :ar Importance of :arsa, tal7s Shanghai communiAuB Ho, the S- China tal7s ,or7ed Gronous7y Controversy over relationship ,ith Tai,an :hite House 0 State tension over China or Vietnam having top priority State, Congress, and Tai,an relations act Chinese understanding of relationship bet,een Congress and Administration Congress and Administration .eason for leaving EAP Principal reason for maintaining good relations ,ith China Final .emar7s Diaries -emoranda, ,ithin State C NSC State INTERVIEW Tuc7erD I think we would like to begin by asking you how did you get interested in China, and was that before or after you entered the Foreign Service' 1.EIS(E.GD No, I became interested in China ,hen I ,as in graduate school. I ,ent to the East Asian Institute for t,o years. 2 Tuc7erD At Columbia' 1.EIS(E.GD At Columbia. :hen I passed the Foreign Service e6am, ,hich ,as ,hile I ,as at Columbia, I had a choice bet,een going on and doing ,hat you both do or going into the Foreign Service. I chose the Foreign Service and didnEt finish my Ph.D. That ,as in 1952. I joined the Foreign Service in the fall of E52. I ,ent to India for a couple of years because they made a practice of never sending you ,here... Tuc7erD Where you wanted to. 1.EIS(E.GD :here you really ,anted to go. They had to find out ,hether you ,ere interested in the Foreign Service and not just in ,or7ing on China. (ut after I finished t,o years in India, I ,ent off to Tai,an and did a year of language training there and then to Hong 1ong. I ,as in Hong 1ong for four years bet,een E55 and E59 and came bac7 and ,as in IN. ,or7ing on internal Chinese political affairs from 1920 to 1922. Then I ,ent bac7 into the India subcontinent field for about t,o years--a year of area training at the niversity of Pennsylvania and a year in Pa7istan. I came bac7 to the State Department des7 in the spring of 1925, ,here I ,as the officer in charge of China affairs in ,hat is currently the Office of PeopleEs .epublic of China and -ongolian Affairs, but ,hat at that time ,as called the Office of Asian Communist Affairs because of Chinese and .epublic of China on Tai,an sensitivities. I then became the director of that office from 1928 to 1970. Tuc7erD We will come back to some of that later period. During the time that you were in India, at the very beginning of your career, were you able to follow China, or was that a concern of yours' 1.EIS(E.GD I ,as not follo,ing China. I ,as in (ombay, and China never crossed my des7. Tuc7erD In that case, let)s go on to the period where you were in Taiwan studying language. I assume that with your interest in China, that you were an observer of what was happening around you, and you weren)t just studying language. What were your impressions of Taiwan in that period' Economic conditions, political conditions, strains between the local population and the mainlanders, anything like that. 1.EIS(E.GD :ell, first ,as that it ,as a period of intense public propaganda. Every,here that you ,ent, there ,ere posters and signs to support the government in Tai,an, to oppose the PeopleEs .epublic of China, to HGloriously .eturn to the -ainlandH I1uang Fu Ta LuJ. 3 There ,as a considerable degree of tension bet,een Tai,anese and mainlanders, very little spea7ing of -andarin in the streets. And fe, of the people that I 7ne, didnEt spea7 -andarin at all, or if they did, ,ith a very strong Tai,anese accent. I had been divorced just before I ,ent there, and I ,as going around ,ith a young Chinese ,oman at the time. Her Chinese ,as absolutely e6ecrable. I mean, it ,as just dreadful. ILaughterJ CohenD ,our contacts were mainly Taiwanese, then' 1.EIS(E.GD Those ,ere the people ,ho ,ere mainly in Taichung. The concept that the embassy had ,as they ,ould put us into a place ,here there ,ere not a lot of foreigners, so our Chinese ,ould not be polluted. (ut they hadnEt really thought about the fact that there ,erenEt many mainlanders there either. So the main good -andarin ,as being spo7en at the language school. There ,ere military around, and ,e sa, a fair number of them but not socially. (ut there ,asnEt any violence. :e never sa, any overt e6pression of tension bet,een the mainlanders and Tai,anese. It, of course, ,as a period of very lo, development in to,n. Very fe, cars. -ost people rode bicycles or bicycle driven ric7sha,s. The outs7irts of the to,n ,here the language school sat at the edge of a rice paddy, ,as about half a mile from the very center of to,n. The ,hole population of Taichung at that point ,as probably under a 100,000, and no, it is a city of ,ell over a million, an industrial and major administrative center. It is the contrast and the change over the last thirty years that is stri7ing. Cohen: Tunghai -niversity hadn)t been built yet, had it' 1.EIS(E.GD It had just been built, and opened ,hile I ,as at the language school. :e ,ere able to go out and spea7 to people there because there ,ere more -andarin spea7ers in Tunghai. It ,as, of course, very difficult to, and absolutely illegal, to listen to .adio (eijing or any of the other Chinese communist radio stations. It ,as illegal to have materials from China. :e ,erenEt able to loo7 at the PeopleEs Daily. :e ,erenEt able to have F(IS there. So my 7no,ledge of ,hat ,as happening actually in China ,as that the language school ,as sharply curtailed. I pic7ed it up only ,hen I ,ent up to the embassy ,here the people briefed us. CohenD .ankin was still there, wasn)t he' 1.EIS(E.GD 1arl .an7in ,as the ambassador for part of the time. IEverettJ Drumright, ,ho had been my Consul General in (ombay a fe, years earlier, ,as there subseAuently as Ambassador. 4 Tuc7erD Do you have any recollections of impressions' Did you meet with Rankin or Drumright' 1.EIS(E.GD -y relations ,ith Drumright ,ere not good. He ,as an aloof and chilly person, intensely anti-communist and anti-P.C. I violated his instructions at one point in (ombay by allo,ing an American ne,spaperman on a Fulbright scholarship to return to the nited States via Europe to 7eep some appointments he had made there, even though ,e had been instructed to amend his passport so he ,ould have to go directly bac7 to :ashington in order to testify before the -cCarran Committee. He had been suspected of spying for the Chinese Communists or the Soviets. I thought this ,as probably absurd but in any event he said he had a brief commitment at the niversity of .ome or the niversity of (ologna. I said I didnEt see any reason ,hy he shouldnEt fulfill those commitments for a fe, days. Drumright and I had a big fight about that. The ne,spaperman ,as eventually cleared but the e6perience dramatically affected his later career. Tuc7erD I don)t know if it is really important, but do you remember the name of the journalist, by any chance' We can probably find that out. 1.EIS(E.GD Yes, it ,as Amos Landman and his ,ife Lynn. He and his ,ife ,ere ,anted because they had ,ritten a boo7 together in Shanghai in the late 1940s and ,ere being accused of having had connections ,ith a Soviet agent in Shanghai at the time.
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