Commission of Inquiry Into Sabl Mr Nicholas Mirou
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS Commission of Inquiry into SABL Department of Prime Minister & NEC P O Box 639 WAIGANI. NCD Papua New Guinea Telephone: (675) 323 7000 Facsimile : (675) 323 6478 ______________________________________________________________________________ 10 COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO SABL 20 MR NICHOLAS MIROU COMMISSIONER 30 AT KAVIENG, FISHERIES COLLEGE, FRIDAY 4 NOVEMBER 2011 AT 8.28 A.M. (Continued from Wednesday 2 November 2011) SABLE34-Mirou 04/11/2011 1 PEDI ANIS, Continuing: XN: MR TUSAIS COMMISSIONER MIROU: Yes, good morning, counsel. We could not continue with Mr Anis examination yesterday due to power failure at about half past 3 yesterday afternoon and about quarter to four, with the failure, we were unable to get our transcription machine working, and therefore, we adjourned the matter to 8.30 this morning. Thank you Mr Anis for coming this morning and we will 10 continue this morning again with your evidence. Mr Tusais, I think I recall, I was discussing some aspects of the SABL with Mr Anis and I will have to rethink this. MR TUSAIS: Yes. THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Anis, as I was trying to explain the SABLs, the reason why the SABLs were legislated under sections 11 and 102 is basically to allow landowners to be involved in business ventures relating to their land. This 20 was a way in which landowners could mobilize themselves in a way to be able to engage in activities like commercial cash crops like oil palm, cocoa, things of this nature and so the SABL was done. Normally, this is initiated by the landowners themselves through the Department of Lands. They submit an application to express their interest, and when that interest is expressed through the Department of Lands, the Lands Department normally create an instruction file and out of that file the Lands Department then engages one of their officers to undertake a land investigation report. Whilst the land investigation report is conducted by that particular officer, in conjunction with the provincial administration office - there is a Provincial Lands office here - where they conduct an actual visit to the actual 30 area. In that process you see that in relation New Hanover, landowner companies were created; Umbukul Limited, Tabut Limited and Central New Hanover Limited. These were companies created by the landowners for that purpose, and also in Namatanai, the Dunfu area, Rakubana was one of the companies established by the landowners. Cassava Etagon also was a company for the Kaut area. Your company comes in as the developer. They saw your company in a way to assist them to develop certain things within that SABL. So as a result of that your company was given that sub-lease, 40 years sublease, to assist these groups of people within the area to develop certain things on the land; and this also ties into the Forestry Clearance Authority. You require a Forestry Clearance Authority to - 40 if you want to establish a road line because it is an economic corridor to allow for SABLE34-Mirou 04/11/2011 2 people to grow things on their land; cocoa or things and then come up and use the roads to transport it to the ports or the nearest harbor where they can export them or sell them. Then you also need to get a Forest Clearance Authority also to clear land, 50 hectares that is the allowable - so that trees can be felled so that you can grow cocoa or oil palm; commercial crops. In that regard you will also require the Forestry Department to give you clearance. But also tied to that is also the environmental concerns or issues where the Department of Environment and Conservation comes in to look at the impact. As you know there is a level 2, level 1, level 2, level 3. Level 3 is quite an impact that does affect the eco-system. 10 With agriculture there is no legislation, but agriculture is also tied to this, to SABLS. The agriculture becomes very important because you have to conduct soil suitability and this is normally conducted by the Department of Agriculture and Livestock. So put them all altogether, you will see that you need to have these authorities, these authorities entrusted with those regulatory powers to look at those things independently of what you consider as the role that your company plays in the province. So you will see that even though your company has been given that, it also does not get the green light to go out and try to do certain things where the Department of Lands is involved in or the Forestry or the Environment 20 and Conservation. You have got to go back to those departments to ensure that those regulatory processes or monitoring aspects of it are complied with. So this is just to give an overview of what I consider to be the most basic requirements. So as a developer, counsel asked you yesterday, whether you had the capacity - your company had that capacity - to be able to facilitate those interests in the SABLs that your company was now used as a developer, whether that capacity is there or not. It is not the machineries. It also involves other things, funding and things to be able to set up those infrastructures. From our site visits in the various aspects of it, we see jetties that are not done in compliance with the harbor, ports regulations. There are jetties that are done out of logs and things like that. So if you can 30 appreciate what the processes are there, then what this Inquiry is all about is to see how much has your company done in matters of developing the agricultural sectors within the various SABLs where your company is now involved in as a developer. And so that is just to place to you the SABL requirements. It is more agricultural driven type of activity. So when counsel asked you what has your company as a developer done in relation to the various SABLs now that you are given to develop those agricultural things, especially it involved our people in developing their own little plots so that they are able to get some money out of it. What has your company done insofar as these SABLs are concerned? SABLE34-Mirou 04/11/2011 3 A: Yes. Thank you Commissioner. For Central New Hanover, I also have the document for all the things that - in agriculture - that my company has also done; also for Umbukul. With the SABL, I do not have the FCA yet for Umbukul but I have been doing a lot of agricultural work, even for the whole island of New Hanover. Commissioner, I come from New Hanover, an island that has been one of the most neglected islands in Papua New Guinea, undeveloped. I come from an island with a history of cargo cultism with that Tutuku Walis Association that has been in the ‘60s. 10 Q: Mr Anis, it is--- A: So, let me just say this. I know that my people are always - are now living below poverty line everywhere and they are coming to me all the time - all this time I was premier coming to now - asking for help for school fees, to put the people for - find employment opportunities and so on. So I came up with the land development scheme for New Ireland which is a document I also prepared and wrote in 2001 and slowly, I am going down with the company. I needed a vehicle to help me to do that just to go down and understand all the compliances with governments, with Lands and so on. 20 The mindset of my people are, the lease - lease back does not have meaning for them, I mean the titles. They know their land. They want to have their - own the land. That is why I have made up my mind that we - okay, we have the sublease but we go with each individual land groups, understand their boundaries and they cut and then we map it and then free up a sizeable area for an economic project on rubber, in this case, in cocoa in Rakubana, working together with them to develop that economic size for them. The rest they can be free to do whatever they want to do. Although, you said - I understood you saying that the SABL also for the 30 sublease that their rights are--- Q: Suspended. A: Suspended. For me, I understood this, maybe wrongly, but as a leader, that they were customary like my own ILG - my customary rights - I still have to go and enter and practice and do my saksak and things like that in the area that I own, as long as it is within the boundary of my ILG. That was my understanding. Only where we bring infrastructure to those areas or ILGs that are inland, we bring infrastructure and they themselves together with 40 our company make sure we go into the FCA and abide by all the rules of the SABLE34-Mirou 04/11/2011 4 Forest Clearing Authority. Over the period there will be some continuing improvement as long as at the end of the day, whatever that there is going to be, the landowners themselves will have their own plantations. My people are very good in working for other people on other plantations because that is what they are - but they have to own their own plantations. In Poliamba they get K600 a fortnight - or a month - when they can earn 3,000 or 4,000 in their own plantation on their own land, working properly with all the government agencies, complying and assisting in this process of agriculture development.