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Interview Number A-0420 in the Southern Oral Interview number A-0420 in the Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Special Collections Library, UNC-Chapel Hill. Interview RUSSELL JACKSON "JACK" HAWKE, JR. December 3, 1996 by Joseph Mosnier Indexed by Joseph Mosnier The Southern Oral History Program University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Index on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection Louis Round Wilson Library Citation of this interview should be as follows: "Southern Oral History Program, in the Southern Historical Collection Manuscripts Department, Wilson Library, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill" Copyright © 1997 The University of North Carolina Interviewee: RUSSELL JACKSON ["JACK"] HAWKE, JR. Interviewer: Joseph Mosnier Interview Date: Dec. 3, 1996 Location: Legislative Building, Raleigh, NC Tape No.: 12.3.96-JH.l (cassette 1 of 2) 12.3.96-JH.2 (cassette 2 of 2) (approximate total length 155 minutes) **NB: This is the second of two sessions with Jack Hawke; see also the first session (covering matters to the 1970s) of March 28,1996, which is included within the SOHP series, "North Carolina Politics Project." Topic: Across the last thirty years, Jack Hawke has been an insider and, since 1984, a major force in NC Republican Party politics. Born April 3,1941, in New Milford, PA, Hawke attended public schools and later Drew University in New Jersey, where he first became quite active in campus and Young Republican politics. After graduating in 1963, he enrolled at Duke Law School, graduating in 1966 but never taking the bar exam, having become extensively involved in North Carolina Republican politics by that point. In 1966, Hawke, just 25 years old, managed Jim Gardner's upset win over powerful incumbent Congressperson Harold Cooley. Hawke then served for two years as Gardner's top assistant in Washington before returning to NC in 1968 to manage Fred Steele's unsuccessful effort to oust incumbent Congressperson Nick Galifianakis. In 1970 and again in 1972, Hawke ran unsuccessfully for Congress; in 1973, newly elected Republican governor Jim Holshouser named Hawke Deputy Secretary of the NC Dept. of Transportation. From 1974 until 1977, upon appointment by the Nixon Administration, Hawke served as Director of the Coastal Plains Regional Commission. In 1978, legal difficulties ensnared Hawke; he effectively dropped out of the political scene until 1984, when GOP gubernatorial candidate Jim Martin named Hawke manager of what would prove a successful campaign. Thereafter, Hawke became Martin's top political adviser and a key insider in the administration. In 1987, Hawke was elected Chair of the NC GOP, a position he held until 1995, during which time the NC GOP achieved a stunning climb to power in the NC General Assembly, culminating in the GOP's Nov. 1994 NC House landslide. Hawke is today self-employed as a political consultant. Substantively, the interview was organized around several major themes: the complex, shifting relationship between the NC GOP and the Congressional Club; his ties to Jim Martin, role in the Martin campaign in 1984, and service in the Martin administration; his hopes to occupy an important cabinet-level role in the Martin administration, and how and why these hopes were not realized; details Tape Index, Jack Hawke Interview, Dec. 3, 1996 of his involvement in the 1988 and 1992 campaigns of Jim Gardner; his service from 1987 to 1995 as state GOP chair; the issue of political redistricting; and factors explaining the broad political realignment in favor of the GOP across the last several decades. The interview proceeds through these matters in roughly chronological fashion, with a focus on Hawke's political involvements. Subject Headings: North Carolina Politics & Government; North Carolina Republican Party; Jim Gardner, the Congressional Club [of North Carolina]; Tom Ellis; Carter Wrenn; Jim Martin; Jim Hunt; Tony Rand; Brad Hays; Christian Coalition in North Carolina. Comments: Only text in quotation marks is verbatim; all other text is paraphrased, including the interviewer's questions. [Cassette 1 of 2, Side A -- Tape No. 12.3.96-JH.l] 001 [Opening announcement.] 010 In 1972, why he declined the offer of a staff position in the Nixon White House and later accepted the directorship of the Coastal Plains Regional Commission ~ it had much to do with not having to move to Washington, DC. 037 He had no involvement in the events of 1976, when the Congressional Club effectively denied the sitting GOP governor a seat as a delegate to the national GOP convention in Kansas City; how he did, however, later when NC GOP chair participate in a payback of sorts by denying seats to the Club's top leaders. 053 Between the mid-1970s and 1984, he was involved very little with politics other than in the 4th District in North Carolina. 060 Quick accounting of his attempt in 1973 to suggest to the Holshouser Administration that Frank Rouse should be offered the Coastal Plains Regional Commission directorship. 066 Anecdote involving his directorship of Coastal Plains and the Governor of Georgia, Jimmy Carter, who became a big supporter. Carter later invited Hawke to remain as director after Carter's election in 1976, but then asked him to leave when it became known that the FBI was investigating Hawke for criminal conflict of interest. 105 Hawke's ties to Jim Martin, and how Martin in 1983 brought Hawke out of political exile to run his gubernatorial campaign. Details of Hawke's resurrection, which included a successful effort to claim the 4th District Republican Party Tape Index, Jack Hawke Interview, Dec. 3,1996 chairmanship in 1982 in a race against the law partner of Congressional Club founder Tom Ellis. As Hawke thus reemerged in Republican circles, Jim Martin at the time was working to identify persons with the qualifications necessary to run his gubernatorial campaign. Hawke's enduring gratitude to Martin for his willingness to name Hawke campaign chair, despite Hawke's "baggage" related to his conflict of interest conviction. Hawke's views about the differences between Congressional and gubernatorial campaigns. Jim Martin's strength as a candidate and Hawke's admiration for Martin made the choice to work for Martin an easy one, even though early on it looked as if the Democratic nominee for governor, Rufus Edmisten, had a huge advantage in the polls as late as August 1984. How Martin overcame Edmisten: use of a "second-tier" media strategy that successfully sought free media coverage from small-town papers and TV and radio stations; the decision to fire a Washington, DC, political consulting firm in favor of a new consultant; other factors. Description of Jim Martin: his basic orientation as a "scientist," his characteristic reluctance to fire people, occasional moodiness, etc. Other details of the 1984 Martin campaign: a shortage of funds constrained Hawke's choices about the timing of Martin's commercials; how the campaign received backing from several key Democrats, including former Charlotte mayor Eddie Knox and Jimmy Green; fundraising efforts; the effort to "get Martin to relax" on camera, which finally succeeded in dramatic fashion when Martin gave his "Declaration Day" address; Martin's habit early on of reverting to discussion of national issues whenever he was tired or unsure of his footing. Hawke's relationship with Martin and role in the Martin administration: how Hawke's experience of having been resurrected from the status of political pariah often shaped his approach, and how Hawke opposed Martin's relatively apolitical approach to patronage gave rise to tensions between Hawke and others on the Martin team; petty squabbling for status among key Martin aides. How Hawke decided to quit two months into the Martin administration, was talked into staying by Martin and offered any job he wanted as a reward; when Hawke subsequently departed as a top Martin aide and became director of the state office of Policy and Planning, however, he did not remain nearly as close to Martin as he would have liked, in part because Martin was not oriented to a planning approach to governing and instead saw decisions as driven by the budget office. Hawke's complicated and often difficult relationship with Jim Martin, particularly concerning the issue of Hawke's role in the new Martin administration: although Hawke bested Martin's brother and advisor, Joe Martin, during a showdown for leadership of the campaign, Joe Martin effectively took over the Martin team immediately after the November 1984 victory; how Hawke threatened to leave entirely at that point, prompting Jim Martin to offer Hawke a plum job in the new Tape Index, Jack Hawke Interview, Dec. 3,1996 administration if he would stay on; how Jim Martin and Hawke agreed that Hawke will be Secretary of Transportation, but Joe Martin later maneuvered to place another man in that role, which led Jim Martin to keep Hawke as a top political aide in the Governor's office. The context outlined just above is the background to Hawke's departure from the Martin administration in 1985 to serve as Chair of the NC GOP. [End of Side A of Cassette 1 of 1.] [Cassette 1 of 2, Side B - Tape No. 12.3.96-JH.1] 001 Prior to 1985, Hawke toyed with the idea of running for Lt. Gov. in 1988, but concluded he could not get elected to public office in light of his earlier conviction; how he struck a deal with Martin providing that Martin would appoint Hawke as Secty. of State should Thad Eure die in office, which idea appealed to Hawke because he thought that, if given a chance to serve, he might well win over the voters. 020 The relationship between the Congressional Club and the NC GOP during the 1970s and 1980s: the Club "of necessity" took over the Republican Party in NC during the 1970s; later the Party regained greater independent standing.
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