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Vol. 778 Monday No. 105 6 February 2017 PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDEROFBUSINESS Her Majesty The Queen’s Sapphire Jubilee ......................................................................1461 Questions Brexit: Customs and Border Staff ................................................................................1461 Brexit: Aerospace Industry ...........................................................................................1464 Residential Care............................................................................................................1466 UK Sports: Funding.....................................................................................................1468 Parking Places (Variation of Charges) Bill First Reading.................................................................................................................1471 Broadcasting (Radio Multiplex Services) Bill First Reading.................................................................................................................1471 Digital Economy Bill Committee (3rd Day) ...................................................................................................1471 Informal European Council Statement......................................................................................................................1493 Digital Economy Bill Committee (3rd Day) (Continued)...............................................................................1506 Brexit: Transport Question for Short Debate.............................................................................................1538 Digital Economy Bill Committee (3rd Day) (Continued)...............................................................................1553 Grand Committee Neighbourhood Planning Bill Committee (3rd Day)..............................................................................................GC 295 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2017-02-06 The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2017, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1461 HM The Queen’s Sapphire Jubilee[6 FEBRUARY 2017] Brexit: Customs and Border Staff 1462 House of Lords Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, of course there will be a range of options, none of which am I in Monday 6 February 2017 a position to cost or comment on today, but they will become clearer. I am sure that the noble Lord has read 2.30 pm the White Paper on the broad principles as we go Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans. forward. Lord Bilimoria (CB): My Lords, does the Minister Her Majesty The Queen’s Sapphire agree that removing exit checks from our borders in Jubilee 1998 was a huge mistake? Does she also agree that, Brexit or no Brexit, we now need to bring back 2.36 pm immediately exit checks to our borders so that we are The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler): My Lords, on on top of things from a security point of view and behalf of your Lordships’House, I take this opportunity from the point of view of being in control of immigration, to congratulate Her Majesty the Queen on the with EU and non-EU citizens being scanned in and 65th anniversary of her accession to the Throne. scanned out? In fact, I could recommend a whole list of Indian IT companies that could do the job. Brexit: Customs and Border Staff Baroness Williams of Trafford: I thank the noble Question Lord. He is right about exit checks.They were reintroduced last year and will provide some very useful information, 2.36 pm not least on immigration. Asked by Lord Wallace of Saltaire To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con): My Lords, can my they have made of the number of additional public noble friend tell me how manyadditional public employees employees needed to meet the requirements of Brexit, are employed by the Government to answer questions in particular in customs and border control. from people who do not accept the result of the referendum? The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con): My Lords, the White Paper published Baroness Williams of Trafford: The figures differ at last week set out the Government’s priorities and the various times. I can say to my noble friend—and I am broad strategy for exiting the EU. There is a number sure he will agree with me—that we will be well of options as to how EU migration and customs equipped to deal with our borders when the time checks might work once we have exited the EU. We are comes. considering these options, so it would be wrong to set out a further position at this stage. Lord Rosser (Lab): My Lords, what exactly do the Government mean when they say that under Brexit we Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): My Lords, half of will have control of our borders? Does it mean that Britain’s trade is currently within the single market, so people who should not do so will not enter this country? presumably customs checks and the space needed for If so, how will the Government achieve that, bearing them will have to be considerably expanded. Two-thirds in mind that we are not in a position to stop illegal of visitors come from the EU and the EEA, so I immigration at present—as the road haulage industry assume that the long queues that we already have at makes clear—despite the present level of co-operation the external border for people going through hard with the French authorities? border controls will be immensely lengthened and that we will need to treble the number of border staff. Are Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, there is the Government already beginning to plan for the more than just the French authorities to consider, extra space and staff they need? If they cannot recruit although we have worked very hard and in good enough, perhaps we will need to recruit border agency co-operation with the French. Control of our borders people from eastern Europe. means just that—control of who comes in and who goes out. However, I accept that no system is perfect. Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, the Government will certainly be prepared, if need be, in Lord Watts (Lab): My Lords, would not the the way that the noble Lord said. However, the advent introduction of ID cards be the cheapest way to try to of e-passport gates at airports has made it quicker to deal with this problem? Would not the Government’s get through the border,and of course the facial recognition time be better spent looking at the proposals and checks at those gates have proved to be very efficient. seeing how effective they would be in introducing controls on our borders? Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab): My Lords, if there is a range of options, there must surely be a Baroness Williams of Trafford: In short, no. We range of costs—guestimates—available to the have moved beyond the ID card in terms of the Government. What are they? Perhaps the Minister can amount of information we have on passenger movement. help me but I cannot recall the costs used by the Technology now has almost negated the need for Brexiteers during the referendum campaign. Perhaps what the noble Lord talks about, which was quite she can refresh my memory. some time ago. 1463 Brexit: Customs and Border Staff[LORDS] Brexit: Aerospace Industry 1464 Lord Paddick (LD): My Lords, there has been a Brexit: Aerospace Industry 25% reduction in funding per passenger for the UK Question Border Force since 2011. The Minister mentioned that e-gates—automatic gates—at airports for EEA nationals 2.45 pm mean that the reduction in funding has not resulted in a lessening of security. Can she say what will happen Asked by Lord Soley when we leave the European Union and EEA nationals Toask Her Majesty’sGovernment what assessment will no longer be subject to this, rather worryingly they have made of the impact of Brexit on the termed, soft border regime? aerospace industry. Baroness Williams of Trafford: My Lords, the TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof State,Department number of full-time Border Force employees has for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Prior ranged from approximately 7,600 to 8,100 in the past of Brampton) (Con): My Lords, we have engaged