^50AF 300ME Tunisia 50!)Ms Malta 35c Turkey. 2 5TL Bahrain. 500Fs Momor 50 UA£: 50 Canada'1 75S Nigeria: 75K UK 5 Op Cyp(us:40OMs Oman __. Egypi. 50Ps USA 1.75S Pakistan: 8Rps Elfitop^a. 2.5Elh,S VemenlAdenl. 0.400 Qatar: 5fis France 7 50FF Temen (Sanaa) 5fis Saudi Arabia: 5fis Iran lOOfis Somalia: 6/ . 300Fs : 4flPs I'aly I200L Jordan 400Fs Syna.ASL Kuwa(lr400Fs Lebanon: 4U JULY 1979 No. 57

worry Arabs 8 Letters to the Editor COVER STORY question, but the number 16 UNEF: will It police treaty? of people is still expected NEWS IN PERSPECTIVE 17 : Sadat's eiection 25 Exclusive interview: to double in the next PLC's Arafat speaks out 10 Iraq's foreign headaches win quarter century. 11 Iran's troubled cycle 17 Africans balk at more 12 UAE and the neighbours support for Arabs MOSAIC 12 Carter's ME team shrinks 16 Sahara: renewed efforts 28 Focus on the occupied 81 People/IPPF's Aziza 13 US-Sovlet summit stands 20 Sayings of the month lands: autonomy talks Hussein 30 Focus on the occupied 83 Literature/Maghout's lands: settlements wrath 33 Focus on the occupied 84 Behaviour/Jordan's iands: the peopie desert police 38 Cyprus: on-going saga 85 Cinema/Algeria's 45 : another try for Ailouache democracy 74 Environment/UAE 48 Capucci: servant, father, conservation friend 75 Art/Moufarrege's new 50 Islam: success of political form organisation 77 Crafts/Lebanon's potters 78 Reverie FORUM 53 Egypt's ex-Foreign Minister Ismail Fahmi 80 Iran budget problems 81 Japan's stake in Bandar Shahpur

82 Exclusive interview: Libya's Izzeddin Mabrouk

In a frank discussion with The Middle East, Fahmi outlines his views on the efforts to resolve the Arab- Israel conflict.

SPECIAL REPORT

57 The Arab population The out-spoken Libyan Oil boom Secretary talks to The Middle East on pricing, timing and exploration policies.

84 AFESD: what the changes COVER STORY: will mean The Palestinian me additional strength," 88 Morocco: back-breaking commando movement is he declared. austerity 87 Money column facing a crucial moment in The Middle East also 88 Euro-Arab dialogue: its history, but FLO leader focusses on the situation the "big sleep" Yasser Arafat spoke to in the occupied lands, and 90 Arab Common Market: Editor-in-Chief Raphael talks to Arch-bishop Platonic ideal The Arab countries are Calls of his determination Hilarion Capucci whose 92 Algeria-Belgium plans for to forge ahead: "Any blow dream is to return to his reacting in a variety of gas that fails to kill me gives diocese. ways to the population 93 Iraq's nuclear quest

6 THE MIDDLE EAST JULY 1979 When announced his "sacred mission" to Jerusalem in November 1977, Ismail Fahmi resigned from his post as Foreign Minister. Today, Fahmi is writing his memoirs from his memento-filled apartment overlooking the Nile in the suburb of Zamalek. Next to Sadat only Fahmi knows the intimate details of how the world powers conducted their Middle East diplomacy from before the October war until Egypt's decision to make a bilateral arrangement with Israel. Ismail Fahmi rarely grants interviews. He has said very little in public since his resignation. But at the end of April he agreed to discuss Middle East developments with Mark Bruzonsky. EGYPT'S EX-FOREIGN MINISTER ISMAIL FAHMI

Bruzonsky: When President Sadat first have the Geneva Conference convened. And went to Israel, do you think he had in they were going to succeed! There is no mind what most people consider to be a doubt about it! separate peace? Or did he realise later First they were going to have all the that this was the most he could get? parties go to Geneva and sit and negotiate Fahmi: One of the main reasons why I sometime in the last week of December refused to join President Sadat is that the 1977. And the Russians were going to only thing which could come from such a participate. visit was a separate agreement. President Carter himself had prepared • You had no hope in October 1977 that the whole thing - procedurally and sub• there could be a psychological break• stantively. Concurrently, President Carter through to a comprehensive settle• and Cyrus Vance negotiated for a long time ment? You foresaw this separate agree• with the Russians about a framework for ment? solving the Middle East crisis once and for O Certainly, because there was nothing all. Then the Joint Statement came on the else. People try to justify major political first of October 1977. It was the real steps on a psychological basis, but I don't framework for a comprehensive settlement, believe that politicians become psy• with all parties concerned attending and the chiatrists. two superpowers as co-chairmen. As a politician I deal with things on a And this is why President Carter and his pragmatic basis, especially when these colleagues were reluctant at the beginning to things affect human lives, the future of a support President Sadat's trip to Jerusalem. whole population, the national security of They waited a little to watch things, hut nations, justice, international law, or when they examined the pros and cons they treaties. It was clear that the Israelis could had no choice but to support it. not risk their national security and their Here is the biggest Arab country in the philosophy just for a psychological effect or area offering a separate peace with Israel, so to break psychological barriers. why the hell shouldn't the Americans profit All this is an invention to justify certain do you think Carter agreed to a from this, bearing in mind their own inter• actions. When I deal with things I deal with separate agreement after insisting so nal problems with the Jewish community them as they are. I don't dream. This is a strongly that there should be a compre• and the Jewish lobby? new thing as far as I am concerned and I'm hensive settlement and a Palestinian • If Sadat knew that Geneva was to be not going to take part in it. homeland? convened in a few months and that the • You negotiated with the new Carter O Right up to President Sadat's visit to Americans and the Russians were Administration for almost a year before Israel President Carter, Cyrus Vance and serious about pushing for a com• you left the Egyptian Government. Why their colleagues were working very hard to prehensive settlement, he must have in-

'I propose t¥fO-year UN trusteeship for Palestine'

THE MIDDLE EAST JULY 1979 53 FORUM tentionally set out to abort that pro• principles is different. think a hundred times before launching any cess. • The treaty has a large military com• pre-emptive war or ever threatening to use O No, I don't believe Sadat did this in• ponent and there has been some dis• force. Instead Israel would concentrate on tentionally, because Egypt was co-operating cussion that the Americans are plann• peaceful methods. with President Carter formally on the con• ing to buttress their military potential On the other hand, if Egypt is wecik vening of Geneva. We were not against it. in the Middle East in three ways: by militarily it will he in a very bad position to We even accepted the single Arab strengthening Israel as a potential arm negotiate peace. The result of negotiations delegation and the whole Carter formula. of Western military might; by will reflect this weakness. Egypt would be • Is that how the FLO problem was strengthening Egypt as a potential gen• negotiating under duress, and Israel would going to he solved with FLO people darme in the Middle East and North have the upper hand in negotiating about coming as part of that one delegation? Africa; hy a 5th Fleet and the the . O Exactly. And before that you may preparation of American contingency This means it will never be a permanent remember again that President Carter in forces. peace. Egypt, itself, when it gets stronger or August 1977 took the unusual step of pro• O (long, unusual pause) So far as Israel is when things change, will say "No, I was posing a formula to the PLO leaders which concerned, I believe the Americans paid a forced to accept this under duress, this must would enable his Administration to sit with be changed", and the whole thing will start PLO people. This was to overcome the again. There will either be another armed difficulty resulting from Kissinger's agree• conflict or some sort of massive pressure will ment with the Israelis in connection with the be needed to convince Israel to agree to new second disengagement of the Egyptian- Egyptian demands. Israeli front that the Americans would not The military help which the Americans sit with the PLO without previously con• are giving to the now is far in• sulting Israel. ferior to what they are giving to the Israelis. This would have been the real Take, for instance, the deal of the F-5s. breakthrough between the American What the hell do I need with F-5s. They're Administration at the highest level and the obsolete. They are giving them to the PLO. As a superpower the US should sit Yemen or to Ethiopia or Sudan! with anybody, everybody, especially when The Israelis had F-5s about 10 years ago. the problems involve war and peace, human Now, they give Egypt, the biggest and rights and justice. strongest country in the Arab world, 50 F-5s. I was the intermediary between the And they give the Israelis the most Americans and the PLO. The process was sophisticated planes in the American starting - the PLO proposed another for• arsenal. This is a mockery! mula. And the Americans proposed a second • If there were a new Fresident in formula. So the process of negotiations Egypt, could Egypt once again seek started through me. This was a major step. arms and political support from the • You really think that in view of US Soviet Union? domestic politics Carter would have O If President Sadat or a new President been able to succeed? really applies a diversification policy, he O He took the initiative! I didn't ask him to could certainly obtain weapons from the do it. He knew exactly what he was doing. Soviet Union which is a big source of And he repeated it even two months ago. weapons. • But he went hack on the US-USSR Diversification does not mean that Egypt Joint Statement within two days by only gets its weapons from France or from producing the US-Israel "Working the United Kingdom or the United States. Paper". "Right up to President Sadat's Diversification means that you get whatever O But this was a bilateral thing. The Joint visit to israei, President Carter. ~ you need - the best quality at the proper US-Russian Statement was intact and was was working very hard to have time and at the best price - all over the going to be respected by the Americans and the Geneva Conference world. the Russians convened" • Do you see any likelihood of the • Even after the American Jews and autonomy negotiations leading to any the Israelis protested so effectively? solution of the Palestinian prohlem? O I was sure of it because 1 saw President very hjgh price. And this will appear in the O It depends on what you mean by a Carter myself after that. Up to this very future, because it will backfire. solution of the Palestinian problem. minute I haven't heard any concrete state• • How? Why? • A solution which will he widely con• ment to suggest that the Americans were O The only thing which really generates sidered . . . going back on what they agreed with the peace is to have a balance between the O You are using very evasive words. Come Russians. Ultimately, if there is any com• major countries of any region of the world. If to the point. Do you want to ask whether I prehensive peace settlement, it will be in one of the superpowers is very weak and the believe autonomy will lead to a Palestinian accordance with this statement. other much stronger, there would be an im• state? • You consider that Statement such a balance in everything. There would be a big • If that's the only solution that you historic accomplishment? temptation for the strongest to do whatever see. O Yes, I may disagree with some parts of it. it wanted. O Yes. I don't see any permanent peace to But I am not a superpower. I am an in• The same applies on the regional level. If the Middle East crisis unless the Palestinian terested party. We don't speak the same Israel realises that Egypt alone, militarily problem is solved on the basis of restoring language. Our vision is completely different speaking, is not that weak and that in any the full rights of the Palestinian people in and our interests are different. Our com• armed conflict between Israel and Egypt the form of a homeland with territorial mitments are different. Our dedication to there would be a lot of damage, Israel will boundaries.

54 THE MIDDLE EAST JULY 1979 FORUM Once this is established either use physical means or complete they are very just and fair, that they believe I am not at all against this new state having penetration through various slogans like in international law and common sense. So I some relations with Israel. It's up to them - "peace," "open frontiers," "joint projects". have only one very simple proposal. Let us federation, confederation, even if they And all what you hear now is this new agree to have the West Bank and Gaza decide to unite in a secular state. If they vocabulary. under international trusteeship, under the choose to have a political link with Jordan, • But it's not unwarranted penetration trusteeship. I formally it's up to them. if Egypt welcomes these things. It's not propose a UN trusteeship for Palestine, But let us understand each other very Israeli expansion, it's something that namely the West Bank and Gaza, for two clearly. There will he no peace unless the the Egyptians - desire. years. Palestine problem is solved on the basis of a O Yes, hut I don't believe that the • You don't seriously think the Israelis Palestine state. Egyptians do welcome this. I am sure that would be interested in such a proposal, • But the Israelis are hinting at a all the Egyptians, if they understood exactly do you? somewhat different solution which what's going to happen, would never have O I said before, if they are interested in many Egyptians I've spoken with don't accepted it. And the future will show you. peace, in human rights, in justice, in inter• seem to object to too strongly. If Jordan • What do you expect when the national law, what is wrong with the UN were controlled by the Palestinians having a trusteeship on Palestine? After two politically, Israel could argue that the years there will be elections under inter• Palestinians had three-quarters of national supervision. We give to the Palestine - the East Bank of the Jordan Palestinians - like anybody else - the right River - and the Jews, one-quarter - to say yes or no to their statehood. And I everything to the West of the River. may add, to assure the Israelis of their own O This means agression against the Jor• security. In addition, I propose that the new danian state. It means the Arabs and the Palestine state, once it is established, Palestinians would relinquish their rights in declares its complete neutrality - another Palestine. More importantly, the result of Switzerland. the Palestinisation of Jordan would be the • No army, at least not a large one? Israelisation of the West Bank and Gaza. O A security force composed of, let us say, This is why the Israelis are promoting this 50,000. A security force to control its own idea, but this is not the solution. This is territory and frontiers and so on. I make this exactly what Begin and some American concrete proposal for, if the Israelis are really strategists are trying to do. But they are honest, why should they fear an inter• evading the main problem. This is impossi• national trusteeship. ble. The Americans, the Russians, the French • Why? could serve on the Board of Transition too - O Because it attempts to solve the problem the five permanent members. Anybody the of the rights of one people at the expense of Israelis want! another people. • Many of the leaders of the Arab • History's full of examples of such states have declared that the leaders of things. It might not be "just," but it Egypt who have entered this treaty might be a solution. with Israel are "traitors". Do you O If this is a theoretical exercise I can share that view? extend it to many more things. Begin and O (long pause) No. Every politician takes his colleagues could go back again to decisions for one reason or another and tries Poland, Germany, France and the United "I was the intermediary between hard to justify his position. Statesmen rarely Kingdom. Or, they could start shopping all the Americans and the PLO... ~ declare they are wrong. But calling people over again for new ground and go to bad names is not my style. History will Madagascar or Libya or Uganda. The process of negotiations judge whether the Arabs are wrong and • Do you think the treaty has greatly started through me. This was a President Sadat is correct. strengthened the Likud-Begin political major step" • You are busy writing your memoirs. forces in Zionism? What are you trying to accomplish? O I don't believe that there is any difference O I will try as honestly as possible to put on between all these pople. They have their old autonomy negotiations begin? record my views and to try to rectify many testament. They are trying to implement it O The whole process is a non-starter for the misconceptions. This I will do at the proper by stages, by force, or influence all over the Palestinians. It is based on Begin's plan, time and for the sake of Egypt and for world. which means, as you will see, that the history in general. • But don't you see a difference Israelis will try to change the demographic President Carter and his Administration between Labour, Mapam, Likud . . . composition of the West Bank and Gaza tried throughout 1977 to approach the O No difference. All this is semantics, and they'll try to establish a massive Middle East crisis in its totality and they re• believe me. number of new settlements. And this is why jected the Kissinger policy. Vance was con• • Are you afraid that after the treaty the framework agreed upon at Camp David vinced that all parties should go to Geneva, the Israelis may seek excuses for is a non-starter, and is rejected by all the and the process of contact with the PLO had further expansion? Arab countries without exception. already started. O You see, Israeli expansion can be in • What about Sudan, Oman . . . ? But now a Palestinian state will not different forms - war and armed conflict is O No, no, no. No exception. Go to Sudan emerge unless either the geopolitics of the just one way. And history taught us that yourself. Walk in the street. Speak to the area change again or the Arabs use force to they can create the conditions in which they people of Sudan, the responsible people. bring it about. I prefer an international can justify through the media that what They will tell you exactly this. effort with massive support from the they took was in self-defence. They can The Israelis and the Americans claim that American President. •

THE MIDDLE EAST JULY 1979 55