CANADA ENERGY REGULATOR RÉGIE DE L’ÉNERGIE DU CANADA
Hearing / L'audience GH-002-2019
NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. North Corridor Expansion Project
NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. Projet d’agrandissement du couloir nord
VOLUME 4
- REDACTED -
Hearing held at L’audience tenue à
Chateau Nova 10010 - 74 Street Peace River, Alberta
February 5, 2020 Le 5 février 2020
International Reporting Inc. Ottawa, Ontario (613) 748-6043
© Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada 2020 © Sa Majesté du Chef du Canada 2020 as represented by the Canada Energy Regulator représentée par la Régie de l’énergie du Canada
This publication is the recorded verbatim transcript Cette publication est un compte rendu textuel des and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et official languages, depending on the languages transcrite dans l’une ou l’autre des deux langues spoken by the participant at the public hearing. officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l’audience publique.
Printed in Canada Imprimé au Canada
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019
HEARING / L’AUDIENCE GH-002-2019
IN THE MATTER OF NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. North Corridor Expansion Project
HEARING LOCATION/LIEU DE L’AUDIENCE
Hearing held in Peace River, Alberta, Wednesday, February 5, 2020 Audience tenue à Peace River (Alberta), mercredi, le 5 février 2020
COMMISSION PANEL/COMITÉ D'AUDIENCE DE LA COMMISSION
Trena Grimoldby Presiding Commissioner/Commissaire présidant l’audience
Wilma Jacknife Commissioner/Commissaire
Stephania Luciuk Commissioner/Commissaire
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APPEARANCES/COMPARUTIONS (i)
Applicant/Demandeur
NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. - Mr. Justin Fontaine - Mr. Brock Gent - Ms. Tammy Ramanat - Mr. Peter Andre - Mr. Paul Anderson - Ms. Jordan Toth
Intervenors/Intervenants
Driftpile Cree Nation - Mr. Amyn Lalji - Mr. David Overall - Elder Peter Freeman - Elder Theresa Campiou - Mr. Karl Giroux
Environment and Climate Change Canada - Ms. Cari-Lyn Epp
Louis Bull Tribe - Mr. Amyn Lalji - Mr. David Overall - Ms. Melanie Daniels - Mr. Trevor Larocque
Natural Resources Canada - Major Projects Management Office - Mr. Jay Gerritsen
Canada Energy Regulator/Régie de l’énergie du Canada - Ms. Joanne Gordon - Ms. Rebecca Brown
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TABLE OF CONTENTS/TABLE DES MATIÈRES (i)
Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe
Opening remarks by the Presiding Commissioner 1020
Driftpile Cree Nation Elder Peter Freeman Elder Theresa Campiou Mr. Karl Giroux
Oral Indigenous Knowledge presentation 1099
Opening remarks by the Presiding Commissioner 1390
Preliminary matters - confidentiality request for Driftpile Cree Nation 1448
Louis Bull Tribe Ms. Melanie Daniels Mr. Trevor Larocque
Oral Indigenous Knowledge presentation 1484
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LIST OF EXHIBITS/LISTE DES PIÈCES
No. Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe
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UNDERTAKINGS/ENGAGEMENTS
No. Description Paragraph No./No. de paragraphe
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge
--- Upon commencing at 9:22 a.m./L’audience débute à 9h22
1020. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Good morning, everyone.
1021. Welcome to the Canada Energy Regulator’s oral Indigenous knowledge sessions regarding NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd.'s proposed North Corridor Expansion Project. NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. will be referred to throughout the morning here as NGTL.
1022. The sharing of oral Indigenous knowledge that we've come here to hear is scheduled to occur from Monday, February 3rd until Thursday, February 6th.
1023. And the Commission would like to begin this morning by acknowledging that we're here on Treaty 8 lands, which are the traditional territory and homelands of many First Nations and Métis people, all of whose relationships to and connections with this land not only began long ago, but continue to present day, and will continue long after today.
1024. Treaty 8 was signed in 1899. Adhesions to this agreement were signed that same year on July 1st, 1899, at Peace River Landing; July 6 at Dunvegan; July 8 at Fort Vermillion; July 13 at Fort Chipewyan; July 17 at Smith’s Landing; July 25 and 27 at Fond du Lac; August 4 at Fort McMurray; and August 4 at Wabasca Lake.
1025. Further adhesions were signed the following year in 1900 at Lesser Slave Lake and Fort Vermillion, as well as locations in British Columbia and the Northwest Territories.
1026. The Commission is committed to receiving knowledge, understanding and learning from it, investing in relationships with the communities of Treaty 8 and the other communities from Treaty 6 that will be attending the sessions here this week, and doing all that we can to move forward together on the journey of reconciliation.
1027. It is with truth and respect that we would like to acknowledge all of the Indigenous ancestors of these lands and reaffirm our relationship with one another.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1028. Now, I'll provide a little bit of detail about how the session will proceed this morning.
1029. First, we will begin with introductions. We'll introduce ourselves as the Panel. We will provide Driftpile Cree Nation the opportunity to introduce themselves and their presenters. And we'll also provide NGTL the opportunity to introduce themselves and their representatives here today.
1030. We'll go through all of those introductions. Then I'll then talk a little bit about logistics, the schedule for the morning and some of the details about the venue and the emergency evacuation procedures.
1031. After that, we will provide an opportunity for parties to raise any preliminary matters. Following that, we will proceed with the swearing in or affirming of knowledge keepers, elders, and other presenters who've come here to share knowledge.
1032. We have an eagle feather here that is available for that purpose.
1033. And just a reminder today that we're using microphones. Some of us have a little bit of trouble hearing, so it's nice to be able to amplify our voices in this way. And we'll be using the microphones throughout the morning, so please try to remember to speak directly into them. Make sure the red light is on. That means it's on and it's working. And this is really so everyone in the room can hear and so the court reporter can hear us as well.
1034. Now, I will proceed to introduce ourselves as a Panel.
1035. My name is Trena Grimoldby. I am one of the Commissioners at the Canada Energy Regulator. I am the Presiding Commissioner for the purposes of this application and for the proceedings here this week. I am from Edmonton. My ancestors are Métis. I also have Ukrainian and British ancestry as well.
1036. I'll now turn the microphone over to Commissioner Jacknife and she can make her introduction as well.
1037. COMMISSIONER JACKNIFE: Good morning, everyone.
1038. My name is Wilma Jacknife, and I am from Cold Lake First Nation in east central Treaty 6 territory. I'm one of the Commissioners with the Canada
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge Energy Regulator, and I'm happy to be here today to hear the testimony of the presenters. Thank you.
1039. COMMISSIONER LUCIUK: Good morning.
1040. My name is Stephania Luciuk. I am also one of the six Commissioners of the Canada Energy Regulator.
1041. I now live in Calgary. I'm from Saskatchewan originally. And I wanted to extend my thanks to everybody for travelling here for today, for joining us here today. So thank you for taking the time to be with us.
1042. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: I'll now ask Driftpile Cree Nation to provide an introduction of their members and Mr. Lalji or Mr. Overall, I'd appreciate if you could lead us through that, and if you're also able to let us know who's an elder, if you have any interpreters with you, and who might be a knowledge keeper so we can ensure that we're referring to everyone in the most correct and respectful way. So please proceed with that.
1043. MR. LALJI: Thank you very much and to the Panel for welcoming us and for the opening remarks.
1044. With me today on behalf of Driftpile, we have two elders who are immediately to my left at the beginning of the table. We have Peter Freeman who is an elder. We also have Elder Theresa Campiou who is beside him. And then we have Karl Giroux who is the Consultation Coordinator for Driftpile Cree Nation who will also be giving evidence and remarks, and myself, David Overall, who's also counsel for the Nation with me.
1045. And we also have a councillor, Starr Sasakamoose, who we're very happy to -- that he's here. He is a leader of the Nation, a councillor, and he will not be presenting remarks, but he is here to observe the evidence of the elders and the Consultation Coordinator.
1046. And I will defer to the others with respect to the protocol to follow, which is, as we discussed with the Process Advisor, there will be a smudge and an opening prayer.
1047. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. I think at this point I'll invite the NGTL representatives to introduce themselves, following
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge which may be the best time for the smudge, the prayer, and affirmations.
1048. So why don’t we take that opportunity to hear from NGTL and then we'll proceed with those matters. Thank you.
1049. Mr. Fontaine?
1050. MR. FONTAINE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1051. My name is Justin Fontaine. I'm a lawyer with Osler, Hoskin and Harcourt in Calgary, and I'm here as counsel for NGTL today.
1052. With me today, to my right, is Mr. Brock Gent, in-house legal counsel with NGTL. To his right is Paul Anderson, Indigenous Relations Teams lead with NGTL. Behind Paul is Peter Andre. He's a Project Manager with NGTL and this Project specifically. To Peter's left is Tammy Ramanat. She's Senior Environmental Advisor with NGTL. And to Tammy's left is Jordan Toth, and she's a TK lead with NGTL. Thank you.
1053. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1054. We do have some matters to attend to after this as well before we start the sharing, but Mr. Lalji, I may suggest that this might be an appropriate time to do the smudge and the prayer.
1055. MR. LALJI: I would agree. That’s a protocol we discussed, the procedure we discussed. Thank you.
1056. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: Good morning, everyone. I will use the mic to say the prayer, but as well as to talk a little bit about the smudge.
1057. It’s a combination of cedar, sweetgrass, sage, and fungus, and all properties that are within our own traditional territory, especially the fungus.
1058. And we smudge so that we can clear our minds, clear our hearts, and cleanse our spirit so that when we communicate with one another, we clearly understand what it is that we need to understand from each other and how we can move forward in a journey that we must take, going from this day forward.
1059. So with the smudge, I’m grateful for all of those that offered to
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge smudge and clear the path for us to carry on, on this day.
1060. And with that, I will start with the opening prayer, and from the opening prayer, then we’ll turn it back to you.
1061. And traditionally -- and I know that many people in different protocols ask people to stand when there are prayers, but since I’ve been practising more in our traditional way, when we take our pipe and we took our pipe with the treaty making, everyone sat. And so we all sat around and said our prayers and so for this one, I’m comfortable that everyone sits while I say the prayer.
1062. And thank you for the tobacco and thank for the protocol, because that creates a path for us to move forward, plus it creates a path for me to make my connection too, in terms of our prayers.
1063. So with that, I will begin the prayer in Cree, and then I will switch over to English.
--- (Opening Prayer)
1064. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Thank you for that opening prayer.
1065. I’ll now proceed to ask if we have any other intervenors or parties present in the room today that wish to be identified, please make your way to the podium at the back of the room and the microphone will be available to you for that purpose.
1066. MS. EPP: Good morning.
1067. Cari-Lyn Epp, Senior Environmental Assessment Coordinator with Environment and Climate Change Canada.
1068. Thank you.
1069. MR. GERRITSEN: (Speaking in Native language). Good morning.
1070. My name is Jay Gerritsen, representing the Major Projects Management Office at Natural Resources Canada. Natural Resources Canada is the Crown Consultation Coordinator for the Northern Corridor Expansion Project.
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1071. And again, thank you. Good morning. I’m honoured to be here.
1072. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1073. I’m now going to ask our counsel, Joanne Gordon, to go over a few safety and housekeeping matters as well as introduce some of the Canada Energy Regulators staff that are here with us
1074. So, Ms. Gordon?
1075. MS. GORDON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1076. The housekeeping matters, just the men’s and women’s washrooms are just outside this door to your immediate right.
1077. In the unlikely event that you hear a building evacuation tone or if there is an emergency, please exit this room through these doors, head to the main doors of the hotel. Once outside the building, please proceed to the muster point which is located in the southeast corner of the parking lot, and marked by a yellow sign. Please take a roll-call of your group and if anyone is missing, please ensure you draw it to the attention of our Hearing Manager, who is Josh Brading and sitting right behind me here; he’ll give you a little wave.
1078. To assist our session, we have a number of staff here with us, and I’ll introduce them now. So you just met Josh Brading, again, our Hearing Manager. We have IT support here, Jarrod Hildebrand, at the back. Rebecca Brown, to my right, and myself, Joanne Gordon, are Legal Counsel. Natalia Churilova, who you know, is our Process Advisor. Courtney Bloor and Monica Rodriguez- Galvez, behind me, are our Socio-Economic Specialists. Janet Foreman is our Regulatory Officer, and Dale Waterman is joining us from Ottawa; he is our Court Reporter today.
1079. The staff here are all wearing these silver nametags, so you can identify us. Please feel free to approach us if you have any questions. If you have some process-related questions, please approach Natalia with those.
1080. Thank you.
1081. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms. Gordon.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge
1082. I’d also just like to note, for security reasons, please don’t leave bags or personal belongings unattended in the hearing room, today. If you have any concerns about that or are looking for a place to keep your belongings, please speak to any of our staff and we’ll work something out for you there.
1083. Today, we intend to sit until approximately noon, or so. We will endeavor to take a break at a natural point, sort of mid-morning, but we will rely on counsel to sort of guide us through that. And at any time, if anyone needs to take a break, please just let me know and we’ll absolutely do our best to accommodate that.
1084. The oral indigenous knowledge that will be shared here today will be transcribed and will form part of the hearing record. If you’ve not already done so, please let us know if you wish for any of the knowledge that is shared today to be treated as confidential. We will then take steps to ensure that that confidentiality is protected.
1085. Electronic transcripts of the proceedings will be made available on the Canada Energy Regulator website at the end of each day, under the North Corridor Expansion Project homepage, and you can find those links on our main page.
1086. There is also a live audio stream of the proceeding which is being broadcast via the Canada Energy Regulator’s website, as we speak, and we welcome everyone that is listening in on that broadcast this morning.
1087. If you’ve not already done so, a quick reminder to everyone to mute their mobile phones, as they can be somewhat disruptive to the proceeding.
1088. And at this point I’d like to note that the Commission understands that Driftpile Cree Nation has an oral tradition for sharing Indigenous knowledge from generation to generation and this knowledge can’t always be adequately shared in writing.
1089. We appreciate that you’ve chosen to be here today to share aspects of your traditional knowledge and your relationships to and uses of your traditional territory with us. Thank you for helping us to better understand how they may be affected by the Project. It is a privilege for the Commission to hear the knowledge that will be shared today.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge
1090. Before we proceed to affirmations, I will ask parties if they have any preliminary matters they wish to raise at this point?
1091. Mr. Fontaine, I see you shaking your head no.
1092. Mr. Lalji?
1093. MR. LALJI: No, there aren’t.
1094. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Mr. Lalji, we’d like to proceed with swearing in or affirmations at this point. I wonder if you could provide us with any direction as to how you’d like to see that proceed?
1095. MR. LALJI: Yeah. Thank you very much. Each of the presenters has indicated that they would like to affirm with the use of the provided eagle feather. Thank you.
1096. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: All right. And so our Regulatory Officer, Janet Foreman, will proceed to get those affirmations right now.
KARL GIROUX: Affirmed THERESA CAMPIOU: Affirmed PETER FREEMAN: Affirmed
1097. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms. Foreman.
1098. Mr. Lalji, we’re in your hands and ready for sharing to begin.
--- ORAL PRESENTATION BY/REPRÉSENTATION ORALE PAR DRIFTPILE FIRST NATION:
1099. MR. LALJI: Thank you very much. I will now turn the mic to Peter Freeman, who is the first elder who will present. And I will not proceed to introduce the other presenters subsequent to that. They will proceed in the order that they are seated on the panel until we arrive at Karl Giroux, who will be the final presenter for Driftpile.
1100. I don’t anticipate at the moment a need for a break, but as you
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge mentioned, we can assess that as the morning moves on.
1101. Thank you very much.
1102. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: Good morning, everyone.
1103. I’d like to welcome all of you to our territory in Treaty 8. And I appreciate the gift you’ve given us this morning.
1104. First of all, I want to clarify that I’ll be speaking on our traditional lands and some of the concerns or issues that may arise from this project. I would like to deliberate these thoughts in a positive manner.
1105. One of the things I would like to firstly mention is I am a little disappointed in the gathering in Peace River. We would love to have you people come into our community. It gives an opportunity for our members to actually see who we are going to be dealing and deliberating this matter with. And we hope that it will be a positive and a clear understanding as to some of the issues or proposed issues that may come to light.
1106. And I’ll be talking on some of the past experiences that we had with other firms, some of the reactions or lack of reactions that might have occurred during some of these ventures, whether it does contaminate some of our territory and our means of survival that we depend for more land and from our animals that we also depend on.
1107. So with that, after review of some of the documents for this proposed pipeline, the areas identified definitely are areas that our members have travelled to harvest our animals for our consumption. We have to travel a long ways from Driftpile because of the fact that projects like this has affected our means of survival through the wilderness that the Lord has given us to survive with.
1108. So my biggest concern in any project such as this is reviewing the process that is implemented or the plan that’s implemented in how to protect our Treaty 8 area.
1109. The response time on some of the spills that had occurred in the past had been delayed, for me, a little too long to react and protect our lands and our animals that need to survive in this particular area.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1110. We have our elders talk about some of the areas that’s going to be covered in this Project as they move throughout the land, because our people are nomadic people. So this is no strange area for our people and our grandfathers. They’ve camped in different sites. They’ve hunted in different areas for different species. And my co-elder here will speak on some of the medicines that we depend on.
1111. And we pray to our Lord and our elders to watch over those lands, that no damage, no serious damage, will happen during the duration of this Project.
1112. We have our young people to think about. And that’s the reason why I invite you, in the future, if we have another gathering, that we hold it in our community so our people, our kids, will see the people that we are going to be dealing with, that we will be working with, and hope it will be a positive venture.
1113. It is getting very difficult for our members to harvest the wild game that we depend on due to the fact that our land is starting to shrink because of major activities. Not just the oil and gas companies, but there’s other agencies that are doing just as much damage and clearing our harvesting territory. And we hope that the communication is open from your senior staff to work with our people and to understand our rationale, our concerns as to some of these megaprojects that could do major damage to our way of life.
1114. Our culture is getting tougher and tougher to maintain because our resources are being depleted. Our people used to travel, a couple of horse and wagons maybe an hour, two hours south from our community. Now, we have to have a lot of our people travelling one to two, sometimes three hours to harvest our resources from the land so we can continue teaching our elders -- or our elders teaching the young ones, pardon me -- to maintain our culture and to survive our culture for the future generations.
1115. I am really concerned about some of the contaminants that are left behind in these areas by various operators that are working in our territory. I think it's very important that you understand that we would like to see a representative from our community to oversee some of the activities so the animals are protected, the waters are protected, and should something happen or a mishap, God forbid, that it is responded to as quick as possible.
1116. And we invite you that you come to our community and learn a little bit more of our way of life from our people that are trying to live off the land as
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge much as possible.
1117. It hurts me right here when I have to see another elder suffer drastically to try and harvest what they need for their families, and they have to travel a distance to get that resource. So that’s why it's important that we communicate the operation, the plans of the operation, and the response time, and how you will react should something take place that’s negative to our territory.
1118. Our resources that I spoke about, the moose, the elk, and the bears, they are also being reduced in numbers. There's other companies that has affected their sustainability to live and survive, just as much as our people are suffering to try and live off the land because of the major projects that are taking place in our territory.
1119. So I hope that you do have a plan that will be clearly identifying and clearly, clearly passed on and work with our people in our community, in our territory, as to how we could be of great help and how we could protect our resources that are out there which is being reduced drastically.
1120. For now, that’s all I want to say with the opening remarks. If you have any questions, please don’t be afraid to speak to us. Honestly, we'll respond as best we can. Okay. Thank you for your time.
1121. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: (Speaking in Cree language).
1122. Hello. First, I would like to acknowledge that we're on Treaty 8 territory. But in addition to that, I'd like to acknowledge that we're on the Lubicon, the Duncan's territory. And those are the Nations that are surrounding us. And I also would like to give that acknowledgement and thank them for allowing us to be here. Although there may not be anyone present in the room from the Nations, I still want to extend my thanks and appreciation for them for being here.
1123. One of the things that I'm going to focus on is the impacts, first and foremost, the impacts of resource development. And resource development from a global perspective in terms of how it had impacted Indigenous people prior to contact.
1124. There was trade and barter, as what we're trying to do. I'm assuming we're trying to do that at this point. Indigenous people have never -- always had
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge the trade and barter process, and we welcomed whatever it is our neighbours had to trade with us to whatever it is that we needed in terms of trade. So in terms of resource development, Indigenous people were never against that kind of activity.
1125. However, we also had a duty and a responsibility to protect Mother Earth. And we had that duty to protect Mother Earth in terms of resources from Mother Earth. And as my colleague elder was stating, that is the fear of Indigenous people. And globally, it is the fear for all Indigenous people across the world, is the climate change and the impacts that it has on Mother Earth.
1126. And that is something that we, as people, must be mindful of and must ensure that the resource extraction that is happening isn't going to have a negative impact on our existence as people. But it definitely, if it's in our territory, it's going to have a negative impact on our people because we're not going to be able to do what we did. And in fact, we haven't been able to what we've done in the past prior to contact.
1127. And Indigenous people are beginning to recognize that we have been traumatized by the colonization and we're now moving forward through many, many aspects in terms of traditional practices.
1128. I just want to highlight some of those practices that take place. I know in this territory, in this area, that we have some camps going on. And the camps are to help our young people, as my colleague said, help our young people get back into the traditional way, and the traditional way of thinking, the traditional way of living, the traditional way of being. That doesn’t mean we're going to go back and live in tipis, and we may in the summer. And some of us may even choose to do that throughout the year, which is our prerogative because that’s who we are as people.
1129. But it does mean that in order for us to thrive in the community, that we -- in this community, in this country, in this -- on this land, we have to be able to be who we are as Indigenous people. And this very act that we have to demonstrate today to tell you and to convince you that our way has been impacted is very difficult because we know that’s a fact. It's a fact.
1130. But we're here again to demonstrate that and to tell you how passionate we are about how we need to be Indigenous again. And that’s our argument. Our argument is that resource development has affected and impacted our ability to be Indigenous because we have to set aside everything that we know
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge of, everything that we do, and everything that we are of for this development to take place.
1131. One of the things I wanted to highlight in terms of the moose, and my colleague might want to jump in later on and talk about it, is that when you take a moose and you rearrange their environment -- like, I think even human beings are like that, if you take that, rearrange that environment and clear it, and have that clearing, that moose isn’t going to go back there.
1132. And as my colleague has said, now we have to go find that moose. We still, as Indigenous people, survive on moose. Every one of us in the Driftpile community live off of moose meat and my nephew, in the fall -- and Peter -- in the fall, will go on a moose hunt, and will come to the community and feed the community. And like he’s saying, if you rearrange that environment to get that gas line through, that moose isn’t going to go back there.
1133. And so what we’re going to have to do is we’re going to have to find out where the moose are going, and we’re going to have to follow them. It’s going to make it a little more challenging to do that.
1134. So I just wanted to bring that. So you can recreate the environment, you can put back the grass, you can put back all the plants, but it will never be native to that land. Because you’ve taken out what is indigenous to it. The same way as we’ve been taken out as indigenous people to the land, and you can’t recreate it. That’s not how Mother Nature works. And you can get your scientists to confirm that. They have confirmed it. You can replicate it, but that moose knows the difference. So I just wanted to highlight that in terms of our own livelihood.
1135. In addition to that, there are areas that are sacred, and I think there needs to be more exploration on where those sacred areas are. As my colleague said, sometimes when you come to the community, you’re going to get more information from the community members because they’re more comfortable in talking to you about environment, about traditional way, about our lifestyle. They’re not as equally comfortable to come here and talk to you about those things because they’re not -- we as Indigenous people are not comfortable in explaining who we are and what we do. And the question is, why should we? Why should we?
1136. So you’re not going to get the kind of information and knowledge you
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge need without engaging in the community. So that’s -- I agree with him. The recommendation is if you want to get the knowledge keepers and the knowledge of the territories that you’re going to be hearing on, then it’s vital you connect with that community, and it’s vital you connect with those people. They’re the ones that know.
1137. I’m a grandmother. I’m a mother, grandmother and a great- grandmother. I teach my children the traditional way. I teach my grandchildren. We do sweats. The smudge that we’re using here is from diamond willow. All of those properties and all of those elements exist in our traditional territory. That is the very essence of who we are, and when we have to go and search for them, it makes it really challenging. And when we’re trying to teach, re-teach, restore those ways, it makes it very challenging when the environment is being changed while we’re doing this.
1138. As you know, and as I’ve talked about, colonization has a huge impact on our people, and so in order for our people -- and it has been brought up through many experts, that in order for our people to become sustainable and self- sufficient, they need to come back who they are as Indigenous people. And in order for us to do that, we need to have that connection to the land. And in order for us to have that connection to the land, we need to be able to go to where we were. And if where we were has been modified and redesigned and opened, and perhaps even neglected and abused, that’s even that much more challenging.
1139. We already have a challenge as Indigenous people of coming back to who we are and bringing our spirit back. And that connection to the land is the ultimate of bringing our spirit back. And I was just talking to our elder and asking him, “What do you do in your pastime now?”
1140. “I go to the land, I relax, I enjoy being and just being there.” And I understand that, because that’s the kind of lifestyle I lived. That’s the kind of lifestyle I grew up with.
1141. And I know it’s difficult for you to comprehend that because, if you’ve been urbanized all your life, the connection to the land is something that’s just words. The connection to the land for us has a spiritual and a deep connection, a deep meaning. So we need -- so when you go and you offer that tobacco to Mother Earth and say, “Thank you for giving me the water, thank you for giving me those trees, thank you for giving me the animals to sustain myself, thank you for giving me the berries, thank you for giving me all those medicines,” as my
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge colleague said, “Thank you.”
1142. Because that is how we are as Indigenous people and that’s who we are as Indigenous people. We’re not going to -- I’m not going to shame my people anymore for being who they are. We were shamed through residential school; we were shamed through colonization; we were shamed through the Indian Act to not be who we are as people. And it’s necessary to connect to the lands for my children, especially, my grandchildren, they need to have that connection to the land.
1143. And so this gas line that’s going through -- and I had already talked to -- I had talked to our counsel -- is, we’re only here now to discuss two sections -- two or three sections, from what I can see on the map, and it’s like, wow, it looks like a vein already going through, and we’re only now getting involved about the impact of it. And I’m saddened by that. I’m really saddened.
1144. And it’s like, “Why do you want to complain now? The whole thing is already there?” If we have any influence on what’s going to happen from this end moving forward, the least we could do is have a relationship and a discussion about what kind of impact it’s going to be and what areas.
1145. There’s an area that I was telling the counsel and my colleagues this morning, that a sacred site that I’m aware of that, as Indigenous people, we had. And as I mentioned, we had our traditional ways, both in barter and in spiritual, and in economics and in agriculture, architecture, and as well as in our own recyclables. We understood what Mother Earth needed. We had that deep connection.
1146. We had a site that was in this area, where there’s a proposed expansion, that was considered in English terms, was considered a recycle. And in this recycled site, our people, when they no longer used or needed items, we didn’t discard them. We didn’t just throw them outside, throw them in a garbage, take them to some land fill. We didn’t do that. We took it to this specific site and we asked a spirit that we believed was a spirit to look after it, and we gave them a tobacco and said, “We no longer need this item. Can you look after it?”
1147. And then if Peter came along and said, “Hey, I need to use that,” he would give the tobacco to that spirit -- we, in our language we call it (Native word) -- and he would give and offer that tobacco to that spirit and say, “I would like to use this. I can use it.” Whatever it is.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge
1148. And that was our way of making sure that Mother Earth was protected. There’s that sacred there that I really -- I’m really passionate about. And I’m hoping that through this consultation or this hearing, or some form of recognition that that area specifically would be protected. It’s necessary.
1149. And we have to find a way to ensure that that area is protected. That’s one area.
1150. The other area that is necessary is any of the training sites that are available currently. And I’m going to -- and I don’t know if some of the Nations will have an opportunity to express their concerns about existing cultural training grounds. Those areas, if there are any out there, they also need to be protected because I know we’re at a time and we’re at a phase or a stage where we need to take a look at what needs to be protected.
1151. So we have as well, when we talk about the impacts -- and I know in our area, we already have identified what we consider our territory and what we would like to protect. The impact on the waters is one of my concerns.
1152. And if you think about it, environmentally, if you put plastic, metal, copper, whatever elements you put into the ground to transport whatever it is you need to transport in terms of resources, Mother Earth cannot sustain herself with that. There’s no way. It’s like you sticking something in your skin and leaving it there. At some point, that becomes infected. And at some point, some kind of repair or something needs to be done to correct it.
1153. So when you have all of these lines in Mother Earth, there are going to be some implications and some, as our Elders would say, some damage that has been done, and she is going to retaliate. We don’t know what it is as Knowledge Keepers, but we do know from oral history that if you do that on a regular basis and totally disrespect Mother Earth, that that is going to have an impact on the environment, which is going to have an impact on the people that are living around there. And that needs to be -- and you need to be mindful of that.
1154. And furthermore, when Peter talks about the spills, that’s just something that you know is going to happen because it’s been happening. There is no way you’re going to tell me that it doesn’t happen. It does. Mitigation is probably the issue. I don’t even really know how you can mitigate damage. It’s like how can you stop someone from breaking their leg when they fall? How can
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge you do it? You can’t mitigate it. You can just hope to fix it the best you can. And sometimes the fixing is not good enough because the damage has been done.
1155. My response to the areas that are currently being proposed is how much damage is going to be in that area? Because it seems to me there has been a lot of damage already been done. How much more damage is going to take place and how much more impact is going to be our people, on Indigenous people, and where we need to go to sustain ourselves?
1156. And there’s no doubt in my mind -- and my nephew and I have continuous debates about wealth, about jobs, about moving forward economically. Without a doubt, everyone wants to do that. Everyone wants to have a comfortable life and live -- you know, have plans and do whatever it is that is in their area of comfort.
1157. But with Indigenous people, we have a different perception and a different interpretation of wealth. And my interpretation of wealth is that I have land and that I have that land that is available to do whatever it is that I need to do. That’s the one interpretation, whether it’s the sweat, whether it’s horses, whether it’s -- whatever it is, we’re real people.
1158. So living in the country, those are -- that’s a way of life.
1159. And so when there’s an interruption close to us and we’re not able to go and get the moose, as I mentioned earlier; we’re not able to go and get the moose to feed ourselves, then we resort to store bought foods. And we’re already dealing with huge, huge health issues in regards to that.
1160. So it’s like we’re trying really hard to bring back to traditions so our people will -- the Indigenous people will become healthy again, because eating wildlife brings that -- that’s our diet. That’s who we are as Indigenous people. That’s our diet.
1161. And furthermore, that moose provides the kind of nutrients that we need as Indigenous people. It brings us the protein that we need. It brings us all of those food values that is necessary for our existence, and more necessary for our health, our good health.
1162. So we’re combatting, from an Indigenous perspective and from a -- my nephew is combatting from a Nation perspective the health issues that are
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge impacting.
1163. And so if we’re trying really hard to get our people to begin to have a more healthier diet in terms of wildlife, and then at the same time, we have resource development going on over here where it’s not going to be made possible because all the moose are gone, it’s a double-edged sword because we need that to fight this. But at the same time, we also need the economics to be able to go there and do it.
1164. So when we talk about the resource development, and I’m addressing it to the developers here, there has to be some kind of communication agreement and some kind of recognition of the battle that the Nation is having right now in terms of health.
1165. And if you disturb that land, you’re disturbing our health as it is now, when we’re trying to reincorporate our traditional lifestyles.
1166. And it’s a very slow process because many of our people, many of the Indigenous people have been brainwashed to believing that their lives don’t matter. And every life matters.
1167. So I just want to highlight an area now.
1168. So I talked about global and I talked about the impacts and I talked about the moose meat and I talked about how it affects my lifestyle.
1169. So on top of all of that, when we’re trying to get our community to come back together and to become a communal system again, because that’s who we were as Indigenous people, we then have our peace and we have our ceremonial -- our pipe ceremonies and our round dances.
1170. So our feasts, again, and I’m not going to stop emphasizing, depend on those moose. It’s necessary.
1171. We have what we call feast food. We have the organs of that moose that is necessary.
1172. And so just when we’re, again and I’ll emphasize it, just when we’re bringing back our traditional way of life, our moving into what we’re hoping to be a healthier way, if we can’t get those -- that moose or we can’t get that moose to
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge be served at our ceremonies, then again we’re being -- our lifestyle, again, is being cut off and it's being cut off again through another process and that’s through resource development. And so we're continuously fighting battles that are very, very challenging because on one side, in terms of economics, it's like, "Yeah, but we can have jobs for you and we can -- you can buy the stuff."
1173. But our people need to be healthy again, and jobs isn't enough to get them healthy, in my opinion. This is my opinion.
1174. And I need the willows to build my sweat. I need to make sure those willows are available to build my sweat. I need to be able to take my children out and my grandchildren out into the bush and say, "These are the medicines that we need to pick." I need to be able to find those blueberries.
1175. We were just talking about some of the blueberries that were growing across the lake, and they're big blueberries. They're the huge ones. But right now, they're just a little in the area that I can see. My parents used to go pick blueberries. As my colleague said, we were travellers. We travelled all over this area, without a doubt.
1176. I've -- and I remember -- and I want to share a story -- I remember my dad and my mom loaded us up in a truck and my third child was born and I said, "But Dad, I have a baby. How am I going to go pick berries?"
1177. He said, "We have to go pick blueberries. We need to pick them now because they're ripe."
1178. And so I said, "But I have a baby, and how am I going to do that?"
1179. And he says, "No worries. No worries, my girl." He says, "I'm going to select a patch."
1180. And so he selected a patch by the lake, by Marten Beach, in that area, and he said, "You will pick around here."
1181. And what he did is, he took two trees. He made a swing for the baby, and a hammock, and put Baby in there, and while Baby was sleeping, I was picking berries all the way around.
1182. That’s a memory that I will never forget, and that’s a memory that
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge expressed so much love, so much love. And that’s how Indigenous people used to help one another.
1183. I know that that’s the kind of relationship and that’s the kind of activity we need to go back to as Indigenous people, to find that, that sense of belonging, that sense of identity.
1184. And he also -- and this is for the resource development people. I want to share my other story with my father. He was a sawmill operator. He pulled logs out with horses and he cut trees down. And as I mentioned earlier, Mother Earth, she speaks to us when we become neglectful and abusive.
1185. And he took his whole family. He took us in the summertime. This was in June. And he took us to the Swan Hills area where he had a logging contract. And we went on the horses because we rode on a team of horses. Imagine that. And that’s like, 90 miles. No, about 90 miles from Driftpile, and we went on a horse. And I had a family of 10.
1186. And I recall I think I was about eight, eight or nine, and I remember how we lived in this, well, tent, you know these tents? And all of us stayed there. My mom was there. The whole family was there. My dad had a job and so we were all there. We didn’t need to be in Driftpile.
1187. And then suddenly, one of my brothers come running and he said, "Dad got hurt." And while he was falling a tree, a limb snapped, hit another tree, snapped, and hit him right on the back, broke his back.
1188. And we moved back to Driftpile. And he said, "I can't work there any more because I can no longer take those trees out. It's interrupting who we are as Indigenous people."
1189. And so he ended up in the hospital for six months. And then we ended up having to find other resources to survive. And he did because we're industrious and we are creative and we can make whatever it is we need to make work with our persistence.
1190. So he grew potatoes. So we started selling potatoes. He started selling potatoes for us to survive. Living on Social Assistance wasn’t an option.
1191. And so now you know why I am the way I am today. It's through his
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge teachings that I'm passionate about who we are as Indigenous people, because he taught us no matter how much you get knocked down, you get back up and keep going. And you find a way to make it work.
1192. I don't know if we can find a way to make it work with the gas. I really don’t. I just know the lesson my father had is he had to stop.
1193. I just wanted to share that with you because it's not that I don’t have the knowledge of the industry that’s needed and the economics that goes with it, because he had to feed his family as well.
1194. So I just wanted to share that with you.
1195. So in addition to that, like I said, I do sweats. And I need to be able to -- and I think it's important that you know, at least from my perspective -- and I know each and every one of you also has that same kind of thoughts. You plan for the future and you have this idea of what you'd like to do in the future and how you would like to live your life. And I know for me, I would like to be able to take my family out into the wilderness, in our wilderness territory that I know, and teach them how to live off the land. And if it's interrupted, I'm not sure where I could take them because I know in order for the changes that need to take place from colonization, the changes that need to take place is going to take seven generations because we have been so colonized.
1196. And so I would like to do that. And I agreed to come here because I wanted to express my concerns. And I also wanted to highlight what it is that I view for the future for the Indigenous community, for my community, for my children, because they're a part of it.
1197. And I also want to say that I have a direct and a spiritual connection to the Treaty number 8 in the entire territory, because my great-grandfather signed the Treaty. And he signed the Treaty with a pipe. They smoked a pipe. And his understanding of it is that we would share the land. And when we share the land, then we have to agree on how the land's going to be used. That’s the important part of communication.
1198. I went to -- and I just want to share this -- I went to one of the schools in my early days, and we talked about the Treaties. And I wanted -- the students there didn’t understand how come in Treaty 8, how come we had issues because -- and some of the members in Treaty 6, they get all the money and they don’t do
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge anything with it. And that seems to be the common statement that’s made. And these were students, Grade 7 students.
1199. And I said -- and my explanation was to them, as it will be to industry.
1200. “We both live in the same yard, and I need you to -- we allowed you to do whatever it is that you needed to do in your yard, in your section of the yard.” But for whatever reason -- and I don’t know how that happened other than the domination -- you’re telling us what we need to do in our yard. And we’re just sitting watching, waiting for you to tell us. And I’m not really sure if that’s -- where this is supposed to go.
1201. So you’re wanting to tell us -- actually, you didn’t even tell us. You just did whatever you did with the first gas line; just went. We didn’t have a say over it, from what I could see. And I’m not being disrespectful. I’m just being honest.
1202. And we have a say over what’s going to happen now, I’m thinking. I’m not even sure about that, because I don’t know what this process -- where this process is going to go and who’s going to be, at the end of the day, making the decision on it. I think it’s you, and if I can influence you to think about the lives of the Indigenous people as they exist today, and where they need to go, and how they need to get better, and what we need to do in unity for them to get better, because I know our people are suffering.
1203. I know my people are suffering, when you look at the incarceration rates, and you look at the diabetes, and you look at all the health indicators, we’re the highest on everything, and the only thing that we’re the lowest on is employment. And those are all facts.
1204. So I’m speaking on behalf of my Nation, and I’m speaking on behalf of the Treaty 8 people. We need to figure out how we’re going to move forward from here, because this isn’t -- this, up to know, it hasn’t been mutual.
1205. Thank you.
1206. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: Thanks, Theresa.
1207. I just want to make one more statement. I would like to put a challenge out there to the company that’s going to be doing this project, that
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge you’d be the first company to open doors, to open up your hearts and find a way to maximize the knowledge that our people have, and maximize the resources so they all can have a chance to go out and earn a dollar, instead of what I see happening now. And some of you might be from the East or even overseas, that the government is supporting to bring them into our country and taking over some of the jobs, some opportunities of our people that could be working and making a living, because it’s getting tougher to live off the land.
1208. Let’s see your company be the first to implement a plan in maximizing those resources and utilizing Aboriginal people in these projects in some way. Because I really don’t see it happening, even with our local operators. We have foreigners working in the back yards doing the harvesting of the trees, and not listening to us in some of the ways that they should be doing their operation and their harvesting, to protect not only the animals, but to protect the berries, the medicines. I’d like to see this company take that step and open the doors in how they could maximize our resources, our human resources in our territory.
1209. Thanks.
1210. MR. KARL GIROUX: Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Theresa. Great words were spoken here today.
1211. My name’s Karl Giroux. I’m from the Driftpile Cree Nation. I was born there, raised there. With regard to what we’re talking about today, we’ve come a long way, but we have a lot of work to do as well. A bit about me growing up in Driftpile, there was a very beautiful time that I remember, being out on the land, being raised with what my grandparents taught me, my parents taught me.
1212. Being a second-generation residential school survivor, I’ve come to realize that I’ve lost a lot of my culture because of that. I don’t speak my language fluently. When I hear it, it’s a beautiful song. It’s medicine. It’s one of those soothing things that touches your soul.
1213. And to me, that ties everything to who I am, and as I got older and realized that, you know, the impacts in terms of how it has affected me, even though I wasn’t in that residential school, learning about that and that colonization process about those impacts and how we view -- our world view, and where we come from with that.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1214. Before I begin, I’d like to acknowledge, obviously, the pipe that was shared June 21st, 1899. With Treaty 8, Chief Keenooshayoo, the original signator to that, his intent was with regards to the land that’s been stated by my elders, that the land was to be shared. And beyond the depth of the plow, with respect to that, we had a clear understanding of what that process would look like, going forward. And those are the legacies and the teachings that were left to us. And to me, those are the things we need to protect and pass on, those teachings, with respect to who we are and where we come from.
1215. Being from Driftpile, along the south shore of Lesser Slave Lake, again, a very beautiful place, and my grandparents were horse people. They lived thoroughly with the horse. They depended on the horse for work, for survival, for transportation. And my grandfather was one of those people who attended to his horses. Every day, he would wake up at the crack of dawn, 5 o’clock. Before he sat down to breakfast, he would go feed his horses, attend to his horses, make sure they were fed first, because that was his connection to the land. They took him out to the land and because of that, taught me a great lesson in terms of the importance of that relationship.
1216. The simple moments with respect to that, the hunting trips, the camping trips on that wagon, the beautiful memories I have as a young child and being privileged to experience that was an honour, a very great honour. And those teachings, when we talk about that connection to the land, came through wâhkôhtowin. Wâhkôhtowin is a teaching that we’ve come to understand, that I had to, later in life, research and understand what wâhkôhtowin meant. And now I know, I know that connection. Wâhkôhtowin is that teaching that we’re connected, we’re all relations with respect to the land, and we realize that there’s a spiritual side to that as well -- the land, the water, the air; the trees speak to us as well.
1217. And I seen one of my uncles who had that great divine connection with that and he understood that in a way, when he would go hunting and we would be on a wagon, he would always get off about 20 kilometers before our campsite and he would say, “I’m going to walk from here, and I’ll meet you guys at our camp.”
1218. So he would walk, get off the wagon, start walking and just disappear into the bush. And I always wondered, “How does anyone walk through the bush at night, never mind the day?” And walking over deadfall, walking over trees and, you know, you’re doing this in the daylight, and how does he do it at night.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge But he would hunt at night and he would walk up to the moose while they were sleeping and he would harvest his moose there.
1219. And then he would arrive at the camp in the morning and say, “I got a moose just a couple miles up the road. I need help packing it back.”
1220. But it was because of his innate ability in understanding what wâhkôhtowin meant to him. And when you hear our elders talking about sitting by the stream, sitting at their camps, sitting outside preparing for ceremony, and being in touch with that embodiment of power, that’s wâhkôhtowin.
1221. And we understood that thoroughly as Cree people, as First Nations people. It was that relationship we had. And we honoured that through our traditions, through our prayers, through our ceremonies.
1222. And that disconnect we have with that now because of residential school, and you can see it in our youth, you can see it in our people. But I think at the same time, there’s also a rejuvenation with respect to that. Our people are going back to what grounds them. And that is our wâhkôhtowin. Our wâhkôhtowin is tied to Mother Earth. We understand the natural laws.
1223. We understand also with respect to that the law of creation. The law of creation is what binds us to everything in Mother Earth. And we’re all related as people. So when we speak with respect to that, without speaking only from an Indigenous perspective but a human perspective, (Cree word) is our tie.
1224. And yes, operations need to continue and move on. It’s important for sustainability.
1225. It’s from that divine concept, you know, we need to do and work in good faith, work from an understanding that’s going to be mutually beneficial to not only the landscape, to our communities, to our people, you know, to a prosperous Alberta.
1226. And yes, we are facing an unprecedented time with that with climate change, the impacts of that. And you see it all around you. You hear it on the news. Australia is burning currently. B.C. was burning last year. Alberta was burning last year. And every science that is out there, all of the scientific models that are being presented today, they say, yes, our window, within the next eight years, if we don’t aggressively reverse the emissions, we’re all in dire straights.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge And we’ve all got to reconsider how we’re managing and taking out of Mother Earth in this way. Industrialization has huge impacts.
1227. And First Nations have been saying this even before the treaties were signed. Since time immemorial they’ve been predicting that. And we’ve arrived at that doorstep. We’re at a crossroads. And we’ve got to decide as a whole, working alongside with our neighbours, our proponents that are out there, how do we do this in good faith and how do we move in a way that’s going to be beneficial to us all as human beings? And those impacts and those resources that are coming out from Mother Earth, it’s not designed that way to be -- it’s like a transfusion that doesn’t put anything back.
1228. So we’ve got to cognizant of the practices that we do and how we move forward in a good way and be cognizant of Mother Earth especially in terms of our time. That being said, you know, we have a role, a responsibility. And when I say we, that’s we as a whole.
1229. Times are changing. We see that. We hear that from our elders. Our way of life is disappearing so drastically that when I see a moose, I count my blessings because we don’t see moose like I used to when I was a kid.
1230. And like he said, they’re driving out three, four hours to harvest a moose. So the scarcity of the moose is a sign of all the activities, not just this activity in question, but all the activities. And it’s been said, you know, death by a thousand cuts.
1231. And we continue to move blindly with that perspective. I think our thought process has to come from an understanding that we all have a responsibility. And definitely Driftpile is seeking that responsibility in a good way with our proponent to move in a way that, you know, our TLUs and our ground truthing is done from a perspective of our traditional views.
1232. And when I say ground truthing, it’s just not going out there and saying, “Oh, yeah, there’s this here. There’s that. There might be impacts here.” It’s actually sitting with our elders and sitting at that location where they camped and having a spiritual talk and understanding with them, to share their beautiful stories of that specific area when they were young, when they were kids or when they were young adults, and the stories, and the folklore, and the ties to that specific area. Those are teaching areas. Those have spiritual significance. And that’s where we continue to pass on our traditions with respect to that. And that
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge tie and that understanding is so important.
1233. And our Elders always talk about the importance of our traditions. Like he said, not being able to speak the Cree language, I understand it, but it has power. It has great power with respect to its prayers. When they pray in Cree in their own language, there’s a significance that moves you. There’s a spirit that moves you. There’s a spirit that visits you and it comes over you when you’re in its beauty.
1234. And it’s because of that that that’s my tie to my culture, like I said.
1235. And when you have your elders sitting around a fire telling their stories and connecting to the wâhkôhtowin, teaching their youngsters with respect to their stories, and there’s a lot of laughter, there’s a lot of love, there’s a lot of truth, and to partake and to see that, it’s a very, very beautiful thing.
1236. So when they say, yes, we have impacts in that area, we have sacred sites, it’s just not a sacred site; it’s the life breath of who we are, it’s the life breath of our existence, it’s the life breath of our traditions.
1237. And those are things I, as a consultation director, bring to the table with respect to Driftpile’s position, working alongside my elders, listening to their stories, growing up with those stories, understanding the deep connection we have.
1238. And to me, those are things that move me and propel me into real relationship agreements with our proponents around us who are operating in those areas. And it’s from that basis that I move forward with regards to negotiating long-term benefits for our Nation, because the long-term reality is very bleak for all of us. How do we arrive at a place that’s going to protect us all with respect to these activities?
1239. I think -- you know, I think with regards to what’s going on, you know, and I know -- I want to say that we have great movements going on right now in our country with respect to pushing oil and gas initiatives through. Our government is definitely moving that framework forward. And we have a lot of things that are front and centre right now in the news, the TMX project.
1240. You know, I think we need to use these as learning lessons as well and to also recognize that, you know, there’s definitely a dual responsibility we have
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge and how do we do it better? How do we be meaningful to a process to a people? And when I say people, that’s all of us combined. And then we need to move forward in that framework.
1241. What Driftpile is seeking goes beyond pen and paper, goes beyond agreements. It’s reciprocal to our treaties. It’s reciprocal to when we shared our pipe when we signed Treaty 8. It’s that common promise that was made. And to me, that’s the basis with respect to going forward with these projects. And it’s from that perspective, from that understanding.
1242. I’d like to share a little story with respect to my grandfather.
1243. Again, he was a horse person. He was very meek, stout, strong. When I say "meek", he was quiet. And when he spoke, you listened. And when he spoke, it was -- it come from the heart. And recognizing and watching him doing that, and like I said, caring for his horses, and he would take us on camping trips, and I was five years old at the time, and he took us to his -- our camp, we called it our camp, south of Faust. And it was about 20 kilometres from Driftpile. And it took us the better part of the day to get there.
1244. But there was always this river we had to cross in order to get there. But I remember just before we get there, we'd load up the wagon -- be my grandfather, my grandmother, my mom, my dad, and there was six siblings, and uncles would be following along, and so it was a big adventure.
1245. And to me, going out on horse and wagon was, you know, an adventure of a lifetime as a little kid. It's like, wow, you know, it's like, I'm experiencing something, and you don’t realize, but even just the sound of the horses as they ran and pulling the wagon, the sound of the wagon as it moved along, and the wind as it came across you, and the horses, the scent of the horses as they ran along -- these are all beautiful, powerful, moving moments for me.
1246. And we would always come up to this location where we had to go up this hill. It was a fairly big hill. And all of us kids and parents, grandparents, would have to unload the wagon because the wagon was just too heavy to pull all of us on that, so we would have to unload the wagon and we'd have to carry all the provisions up the hill. And then my grandfather would lead the horses up the hill and pull this wagon, and then would have to reload the wagon, get everybody back on board. So it was a process and it took a lot of time and effort. But we all enjoyed it. It was part of the journey.
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1247. And then we would always cross this river in order to get to our campsite. And we'd cross this river, and it was a fair -- you know, a fast-running river. It wasn’t that wide but it was probably at least 200 feet wide. And but it was a fast-moving river and very, very choppy.
1248. So we'd always get to this river and we would -- and I knew it was the halfway point because that was the halfway point to our camp. A lot of time as a kid, if the river was shallow enough, you’d get off and run alongside the wagon and just be rambunctious and what have you.
1249. But we would always arrive to our camp around six, seven o'clock in the afternoon, in the evening. So this one particular time, we arrived at our camp and we unloaded and it was a beautiful morning we set off, and we got there that evening, sitting around the fire. Mom was prepping the tent and getting things ready for the night.
1250. And come evening after supper, we're all sitting around and then all of a sudden, you hear these clouds and thunder rolling and you knew there was a storm coming.
1251. So the night proceeded. It started raining, coming down, and parents were sitting around, grandparents were sitting, telling stories around a fire and us kids were sitting around just listening to the stories.
1252. But as the night progressed, it started coming down harder and harder and harder. Before you know it, it was just a downpour.
1253. Grandfather said to my dad, "I think we better load the wagon and get back across the river; otherwise, we'll be stuck here for a while because that river rises really fast."
1254. So Grandfather gave the signal and said, "Okay. We need to pack up. We need to get going and get back across the river."
1255. So everybody was hurrying. You could feel the tense, you know, the tense in the air. It was a very, very intense moment for us, and I seen the look in my mom's face too. It's like, I kind of understood what was going on, so I helped as best I can. We got everybody back on the wagon and everybody loaded up, and then we headed back towards the river, finally getting to this river, and it was
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge probably around midnight. It was very late at that time.
1256. And then I could hear the rush of the water. I was like, wow, I never heard that coming -- you know, when we crossed. It was a very, very fast river at this point. My grandfather stopped the wagon just as we -- at the tip of the river and said -- and he looked out and talked to my mom and to my dad in Cree and said, "Hang onto the kids." He said, "We got to get across, so we got to go now."
1257. Grandfather got off his wagon and went up to his horses, petted his horses on the forehead and talked, said something to them in Cree. It's like the horses acknowledged what was going on, that this was a very intense moment and that they had to get across.
1258. And my grandfather just wanted to relay that, and the horses knew that this was a very important time to rise up.
1259. So Grandfather got back on the wagon and went to hit his reins lightly. Horses pulled. As soon as they got into the river, you could just feel that power of the river and just bang and hit the wagon by the side, and you could feel the whole wagon just shake.
1260. And me, as a little five-year-old, I'm hanging onto my mom for dear life. And this power of this river was just so intense that our wagon started to move to the side. And this was the only time I heard my grandfather yell in a high voice, in a commanding voice. I've never heard that before from him, so I knew this was a very intense time.
1261. So he got up and said something to the horses in Cree. The horses just dug down and they dug deep into the riverbank and just pulled with all their might, and you could feel this because the wagon was just shaking from the strength of the horses. And they knew this was a life and death situation. So they started pulling with all their might, and you could feel the boards shaking, and I was shaking just from the power of the horses because they were digging in with all their might.
1262. And they got us safely across the river. And as soon as we got to the bank, my grandfather got off, went up to the horses, thanked them, came up to me, and -- because he seen me, I was pretty shaken too, and he said, "Are you okay?"
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1263. And I said, "Yeah, I'm okay."
1264. And he said, "Sometimes you got to raise your voice to save your life."
1265. And to me, I took that always as a moral, an understanding, that sometimes, yes, even us as Native people, we have to rise up, raise our voices to save our life.
1266. And that was a teaching that my grandfather passed on to me that has -- that in those crucial moments, you got to rise up and you got to say what's in your heart, what's on your mind.
1267. I appreciate my elders with respect to those teachings and that understanding and that connection we have to our Mother. And to me, I share those stories because those are my experiences, those are my teachings, and I couldn't have gotten those teachings from -- without Mother Earth, without my grandparents, without that strong connection.
1268. And to me, it's more than just a story. It has a teaching and I realize that those are the true moments in life that define us and make us. And I think we have a lot to learn from moments like that. And when we're sitting in our ivory towers and we're sitting in our offices and we're sitting in -- so far disconnected from Mother Earth, we got to remember that we all come from that. We are all children of Mother Earth.
1269. And you hear people saying, "Yeah, I got to get -- I can't wait for vacation. I'm going to go sit on my boat," or "I'm going to go out to my cabin," or "I'm going to go out here," and that’s you connecting to your wâhkôhtowin. That’s you recharging. That’s you connecting to Mother Earth. And we all need that. We're all part of that connection.
1270. So when I say that us as Aboriginal people, we understood that and it was our practice for thousands of years, but so did the Europeans, so did all the tribes of different Nations understood that. And that was the key importance.
1271. And the moose understand that. When there's activity in their area, when there's logging trucks, they move away. They're afraid of the noise. They're afraid of the all the activity because they are from and they are the wâhkôhtowin so they understand that sacred relationship very well.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1272. We have, you know, a great precedence in this country, and there's a lot of learning happening; there's a lot of teaching that’s being shared; there's a lot of movement in great areas. But obviously, our governments still need to come a long way and do a lot of things with respect to Bill 41 and UNDRIP and how it’s laying out a groundwork in terms of what government still needs to do in terms of that legislation, and how that law impacts us, and defines us, and helps us move into self-determination; all the key things that are important.
1273. Section 35 also, also details our Aboriginal title, our Aboriginal rights. And it’s from those perspectives we want to work cohesively alongside with activities in our area. Like I said, it’s a very unprecedented day and time. A lot of things are happening and it’s up to us, what we do next. Do we continue in a way that’s blindly damaging, destroying a life as we all know it, or do we do things better?
1274. Thank you.
1275. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: I just want to share a couple of things that he -- that I was remembering and I just wanted to share one of the stories my dad told me about his family. He had a family member that was -- and I just want to highlight the importance in our connection to the land, but as well as the territory, and the territory that’s being covered is very close to the McLennan area.
1276. My dad told me one time that this man, his relative, his name was Boggy (ph.) used to transform himself. And so when the train was going, and the train station was in McLennan, they would get on a train and they would get off at McLennan, and my dad was saying that one time he went on a train to McLennan and his relative, his mooshum, was in McLennan before the train got there. And they were like in awe trying to figure out how he was able to travel so fast, because the train was -- you know how fast a train was going, and he was able to, from Driftpile -- my dad got on a train in Driftpile, ended up in McLennan, which is an hour away -- I think it’s an hour train ride, and his relative was sitting at the train station, waiting for them.
1277. I just wanted to highlight the significance of the territory, but also the traditional ways of our people and it just was a thing that was accepted. No one ever questioned it; it was unbelievable. Whether he was able to travel that fast or he transformed himself, we never really knew; at least my dad didn’t.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1278. The other thing I wanted to highlight in terms of the moose, and I think it’s relevant to this in terms of traditional teachings, some of the elders told me that when you’re going hunting out for a moose -- and I don’t know if these moose hunters had ever heard it, but this is what I was told. When you’re going hunting for a moose, if the moose is standing sideways, it’s not ready to give up its life for you, but if it’s facing you this way, then it’s ready to give up its life for you. And so those kinds of teaching are some of the teachings that are coming back to us as Indigenous people.
1279. And I just wanted to say another thing in terms of reconciliation, and reconciliation is a process that usually happens when there has been previous relationships and you’re reconciling. I’m not sure there was, with the Indigenous people, because we were removed from each other as non-Indigenous people. So I’m not sure there was a relationship, so I think establishing relationship is probably the method that we need to go, and figure out how that relationship’s going to work. Because you can only reconcile if there was a previous relationship. And I know that with Indigenous people, when we had first contact and the treaty relationship, that was the intent, but suddenly that relationship ceased to exist after the treaty was signed.
1280. I just wanted to share that.
1281. MR. LALJI: I’m not sure if any of the other elders or Karl would like to share any other words. If not, I will turn this back to the Panel. I just wanted to inquire if everyone’s okay with the evidence they’ve given?
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--- (Resumption of public session)
1288. When we lose our culture, that’s what -- we’re going to be lost, lost trying.
1289. And I look around here. Do you consider the damage that’s going to be put on not only the land, not only the animals, the medicines, the berries, but to
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge a society, a culture that will no longer be thriving? That’s what this is compared to me.
1290. And that’s why I put the challenge out to the companies. And hopefully you guys are the first group that will look how to improve the relationship between economics and culture and keep both of those alive.
1291. Thank you.
1292. Mr. LALJI: Thank you, Elder Peter, for sharing that personal story and that information with us and that very important perspective.
1293. It’s my understanding now that the presenters of Driftpile have concluded their testimony. And I would like to personally thank them for the evidence that they gave, the very moving depictions that were provided, and evidence.
1294. With that, I’d like to turn the floor over to the Presiding Member and the Panel from here on.
1295. Thank you.
1296. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Lalji. And thank you to the elders, to Mr. Giroux, Keepers of Knowledge, for sharing with us today.
1297. Some of the Commissioners do have some clarification questions for some of you.
1298. And we will start with Commissioner Jacknife.
1299. COMMISSIONER JACKNIFE: First I would just like to say thank you for sharing your heart and soul and the pain. It’s not easy to do. So thank you for that.
1300. I have a couple of clarification things I would like to ask of Commissioner -- I mean, I mean, sorry, Elder Theresa Campiou.
1301. You spoke in your earlier sharing and referenced some camp cultural grounds and a recycling site as sacred sites. And I’m just wondering if those
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge areas are on the record with your submissions. And if not, if those -- if you’re willing to -- and, you know, you may not be willing to share the locations. But I’m just trying to get a better sense of where they are in relation to your homelands.
1302. Thanks.
1303. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: I don’t know exactly the location. I know it’s near Atikamik. And the individual that provided that information to me probably needs to get permission to identify the location.
1304. Secondly, there is another site further north that is also classified as a sacred site. And it has, I think it has, and I’m not sure, I would have to get some correction on that -- has crystals or something, some kind of sacred object that is there. And to access it requires, I believe, walking into the location because it’s so remote. But it’s also another area where I understood that spiritual gatherings took place.
1305. And the two individuals that shared the story with me, I will communicate with them and ask. But I wanted to share that because I knew that that existed.
1306. And in terms of the cultural camps, as I mentioned, I know that it probably isn’t in the same area, but I do know the areas that my mom and my dad took us out for berry picking. And in the further north, I know there’s one here in the area. And I don’t know if that Nation is part of the hearing process. But I’m familiar with their camp.
1307. MR. LALJI: If I may intervene, in terms of the sites, it seems like Elder Theresa might have the ability of obtaining some information. It may be that, subject to the -- or in accordance with the rules of procedure and section 58, the -- she may want to share that on a confidential basis subsequent to today.
1308. I don’t know if the Board would like to, you know, formally pose an information request or, by virtue of the request made here, have Driftpile respond to the extent possible with further information on that -- those sites?
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
1309. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Lalji.
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1310. In terms of what you’ve just outlined in terms of process, I don’t think an IR is necessary. I think we’ll leave it with you and your clients to determine whether or not permission can be obtained to share further details.
1311. If that is the case, please let us know by way of letter. And please also let us know that you may require some confidentiality around that. You don’t have to provide the details in the initial letter if you do obtain that permission. You can let us know you have the permission and you’d like to share confidentially, and we can take the appropriate steps then to safeguard that information.
1312. You may also ask and not receive permission, and you can advise us of that as well.
1313. So I think that would be the best way to proceed with that.
1314. MR. LALJI: I’d like to thank you for that, because there might be information of relevance which I’d like to ensure is on the record.
1315. So I think as long as there’s an appropriate procedure, as you proposed, to consider that, I will confer internally with our clients over the course of the next few days to see if a more detailed submission is possible, and a preliminary letter, of course. Thank you so much.
1316. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: We do have some clarification questions for Elder Freeman. And so we’ll just take a moment and ask those when he returns.
1317. COMMISSIONER LUCIUK: I also wanted to say thank you for the evidence and the sharing this morning.
1318. I have a follow-up question. It comes from, Elder Freeman, your earlier remarks. And at the end you said, “I welcome any questions,” if we wanted to hear more.
1319. And you, and both elders, spoke about some of the additional burdens of travelling further to engage in harvesting activities. And you had mentioned in particular the reactions you had to the difficulties that elders faced. And I think you referred to the suffering that they had in having to go further. And then you
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge moved on to talking about moose and elk.
1320. And I wondered if you would be willing to go back to that and tell us more about that or if you could share more about that experience that you’ve observed and faced?
1321. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: If you would just clarify exactly what you what me to speak on? I probably won’t have any problem recalling and talking about it a bit more. I have a hard time hearing because two of my buddies damaged my ear drums by shooting a moose that they missed and damaged my ears for nothing.
1322. COMMISSIONER LUCIUK: So my question is a bit open-ended and it is just to make sure that I have an understanding of that challenge, because you refer to the fact that additional distances were being travelled to harvest. And you mentioned it and then moved on to talking about moose and elk in particular. But I would find it helpful to perhaps hear more, if you would like to share more, on that particular challenge, the difficulties in harvesting, those that may be particularly faced by Elders.
1323. Elder Campiou talked about how it can be difficult to explain sort of the Indigenous practices and being Indigenous.
1324. And so I may be just asking for more information to understand how that experience of harvesting has become more challenging and maybe some examples of that just to make sure that I understand that fully.
1325. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: Okay. As you know, and everyone around here knows, that the development that’s happening in our territory is more accessible by means of various transportation.
1326. In the early years, our parents, our grandparents, as Karl mentioned, they were able to get on a horse and wagon and travel maybe only 20 kilometres max, and there was plenty of game; there was plenty of berries, plenty of medicine.
1327. But with the development that has taken place, like all this as a development, opening more accessibility to our resources, and now instead of going 20 kilometres from Driftpile, they have to go Fox Creek, Berlin River, they go to Sprit River, that’s a three-hour drive, to go and get a moose, where there’s
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge still some forest and some protected areas that these resources are located.
1328. That’s -- and a lot of our elders don’t have the resources to be able to put in $50 worth of gas or $100 worth of gas nowadays with everything, the inflation is going up. They don’t have those resources. We sure don’t as elders.
1329. So it is -- one thing is that we don’t practise our traditional ways, the opportunity is not there like it was before. Our teaching to our kids is, of course, minimized because of the sheer distance that they have to go to go get those resources, to use those resources to teach our young ones, and to use those medicines to pass on to our young ones.
1330. That’s the hardship that our people are facing now, because, you know, a three-hour drive is like going from Driftpile to Edmonton. And we can’t afford to go that distance to get the moose, the elk, or even the bear, because we use the bear for different purposes as well too, for our needs, medicine-wise.
1331. In the back yards of the reserve, like I said, we travel 20 kilometres, 10 kilometres, we’re able to get to a moose lick.
1332. Just before Christmas, just along that Number 2 highway at the end of the reserve, or part of the reserve, they did a clearing, harvesting an individual’s land. That’s his own land. It’s not on the reserve. But there’s three small moose licks right along the road and our people can go there and harvest a moose. Now the animals are not going to be there because it’s like a field.
1333. And that’s a reason why our people have to go further to get the resources they need to survive, to maintain our culture. That’s what I meant about the hardships.
1334. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: And then I went on to say that without the moose, without those traditional foods that we have for our feasts, it makes it very difficult for us to carry on with our feast food. And it’s been practised since time immemorial; to stop that kind of practice. It makes it very difficult to -- for our people to carry on with those traditions.
1335. So having -- and even just with some of the previous practices, like tanning the moose hide, that in and of itself is a tradition that we’re trying to bring back. Drying -- smoking the moose meat, making dry meat. That’s another tradition. All of those things are becoming more and more difficult to obtain.
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1336. Like, and so now we’re trying to figure out the best way to have these feasts and have these teachings, and to have this tradition carried on. And if we’re challenged with just getting the meat in and of itself that is going to provide, that is what’s becoming of great concern.
1337. COMMISSIONER LUCIUK: Thank you. I appreciate the additional details to, as I said, help to understand that.
1338. And I do not have any further questions at this time, but again I wanted to say thank you to everyone and for taking the time, and for sharing this.
1339. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: Another scenario I have to explain; even the animals know when to move away.
1340. A prime example, just in our little town, just next to the east side of Driftpile, there’s a community called Faust, Alberta. And the wisdom of the MD and the logging operators, decided to build a road that cuts off half the distance if you’re going to Whitecourt, going to Edmonton, and it’s an area then we tried telling forestry, the woodland operators, that this is one area that the grizzly bear was safe and hung around.
1341. We got to know probably about four families that lived in there -- the grizzly bear families, the cubs. That road’s now a year, almost a year old. Those grizzly bears now had moved from Faust, south of Faust, to south of Driftpile. Now, we’re seeing an extra family member of sow and her cubs. So they know when development has moved in their territory and they don’t stick around. It’s no different to any operation that’s affecting their home environment.
1342. So like I said, the animals know when to leave, when it’s going to harm them, one way or another.
1343. Okay. Thanks.
1344. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you for that response. It’s very timely, because my question was going to be about the bears. And you’d mentioned, Elder Campiou, traditional medicinal uses. I wonder if you’re able to talk a little bit more about significance of the bear to your Nation, and how you view effects on that relationship from development.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1345. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: I have a different kind of response for you. I know you’re not expecting this, but you’re going to get it.
1346. In Driftpile, I live on a ravine, like, above a ravine, and it’s like this. And I had several bears come around several times, and so close to the house and of course my worry was my grandkids and my -- so I called the Wildlife and said, “We have a bear around our house and I’m really concerned about my family.”
1347. I didn’t have the kind of knowledge I have today so -- and again, like Elder Freeman said, we were removed from our traditional beliefs, so getting in connection with the animals and getting in connection with Mother Earth and all the elements is a process. But anyways, what Fish and Wildlife said, “You’re actually in their territory, so you’re going to have to learn to live with it.” And so, of course, I was like -- it makes me feel silly, because it is their territory. I moved there; they were already living there.
1348. So I just wanted to share that with you. So my relationship with the bears are somewhat different now, but we do use -- and in fact, I was just telling Elder Peter this morning that bear grease, we render the fat and we use the bear grease. And the bear grease is used for medicinal reasons. And my auntie when she was still alive, used to use that bear grease on her joints for arthritis, and it has healing properties.
1349. And so it’s important for -- and in Driftpile, everyone knows that if you have bear grease, either you use it for any of your ailments, or you can even use it for hair -- and I look at Robin -- and it’s for hair restoration as well, if necessary. But in most cases, it’s used as healing properties for rheumatoid arthritis, for any kind of joint pain.
1350. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: The other purpose for a bear for, as Aboriginal people, we use it to feed our people. Some people still eat bear, they smoke it, but they also use the hide for a rug, or a blanket, or even, I know some elders used to wear a vest, make a vest out of the hide. So it serves many purposes. Like the moose, like the hide, we make our moccasins, our gloves, our jackets, and those type of things.
1351. So we use the complete animal in most cases to help us survive, and then we pass those on to our young ones, our grandchildren. They understand why we shoot a moose or even a bear. I don’t shoot a bear, myself, but I know a lot of the other elders, they do, and they use it for those purposes. When you skin
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge a bear, it looks too much like a human being, so I don’t shoot them.
1352. So there’s many purposes for us bringing down an animal, not just to feed our family, but it also protects us, our clothing. Today, you buy a pair of mukluks, you’re lucky to pay 350 bucks, and we used to make those and pass them on for our family members. Now, we have to adapt our way of life and it’s tough to get our younger people to actually make the tan hide of the moose, and most people prefer the tan hide, not the commercial tan. Because the commercial tan hide seems to stretch and wear out a lot quicker.
1353. So those are our, I guess, our useful tools that we get from our animals.
1354. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: And in terms of the bear rug, we use that in our ceremonies, like, for our pipe ceremonies and any kind of traditional spiritual ceremonies, a bear rug is used for us to sit on.
1355. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1356. And one last question for Elder Campiou. I wonder if you could share some detail about the beautiful skirt you are wearing today?
1357. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: One of the -- it’s two-fold. The colours, the ribbons are representative of the spiritual connections and so we use the ribbons as we use the broadcloth, the colours, for our spirituality in terms of, if you’re, you’re know, going to a pipe ceremony or any kind of ceremonies, for mostly -- I know, across Alberta, they use the cloth and ribbons as part of the offerings. So the other reason is, I have a passion for murdered and Indigenous -- for our murdered and Indigenous women, and so to represent them fairly, I think that I need to dress appropriately.
1358. And it’s necessary that we bring that kind of awareness to the rest of the country, that our women are important, our women -- we care about our women, and that our women play a huge role in the way we conduct our lives. And so this skirt is representative of that, and I choose to wear that. And I work, and I wear a ribbon skirt every day. And part of it is identity. So in order for us to feel who we are as peoples, some of us choose to display it in a way that is visible.
1359. Some of us have it in our hearts and some of us do it whenever we can.
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1360. For me, it's important that I do it for the missing and murdered Indigenous women, and I honour them through that process.
1361. And the designs that I make come from the designs that appear when I'm making them.
1362. ELDER PETER FREEMAN: I have another small story that I need to share, and it's right smack in this area that you're proposing to develop.
1363. When we celebrated the Treaty 8 100 years anniversary, we took a group of riders to ride across country from Cadotte Lake -- that’s east of Peace River, kind of smack in the middle of your proposed operation -- and we travelled cross country and using the old trails on horse and wagon to head to Kapawe'no, that’s in Grouard and where they signed one of the agreements along the lakeshore just north of the Sucker Creek Reserve.
1364. It was so unique to see the elders that were along that trip working with the youth. And that’s what I would love to continue to see as they pass on their knowledge.
1365. Us younger people at that time -- that was 1999 -- a few years -- two weeks ago -- we went out, set snares to catch rabbits for the elders so they could pass on the skills that they have and show them how to set up the snares for the rabbits. And once they got -- we got the animals, of course, they cooked it. They showed the kids, the young girls how to cook on the open fire. And we, in turn, showed the younger boys how to make the snares and how to set it up.
1366. But it was so awesome to watch them sit around a campfire and talk about the elders, what they did with their parents when they made journeys like this.
1367. So this area might be an opportunity for us people to venture out. It's another access. We might be lucky to find an area that there's wild game or identify medicines that need to be protected. But it's not that we're against development, but we want to make sure that it's done in a safe manner. Thank you.
1368. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Mr. Lalji, anything further in closing?
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge
1369. MR. LALJI: Thank you, no, that’s it for now.
1370. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Well, thank you again. And on behalf of my colleagues, I want to thank all of you for coming today, for sharing, for participating in the proceeding, and for taking the time to travel and to be here. It is no small endeavour, and we realize that. It is an honour for us to be here to listen, and we're very grateful for the opportunity that you’ve given to us to do so.
1371. At this point, I think we can consider the sharing session complete. I'd like to offer the opportunity for a closing prayer if that is of interest to you.
1372. And so Mr. Lalji, if you're able to confer with your client there and let me know if that’s something you'd like the chance to do?
1373. MR. LALJI: Thank you, I will.
1374. They will perform a closing prayer.
1375. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1376. And so now that we know that, we are going to close with that.
1377. But before we do, I'd like to give an opportunity for NGTL to make any remarks arising from anything that was shared today.
1378. MR. FONTAINE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1379. No remarks beyond a simple thank you for the information sharing and we're very grateful for each of you joining us and to have shared that with us. So thank you.
1380. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. And we'll now proceed to close with a prayer.
1381. ELDER THERESA CAMPIOU: And before I go into the closing prayer, I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to come. I was feeling emotional earlier today because I recognize that Treaty 8 territory is an area that is my family connection, my area, and my great-grandfather signed -- or my great-
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Driftpile Cree Nation Oral Indigenous Knowledge grandfather signed the Treaty as a head man, and participated in the pipe ceremony when the Treaty was being negotiated.
1382. And the message that I'm getting from him and my ancestors is that we must continue on this journey in a way that is of mutual respect and cooperation, as well as ensuring that the next generations can share the same kind of life that we all are living today, because currently, the Indigenous people don’t have that kind of lifestyle. And we need to work together so that that is going to happen.
1383. So with that, I will say the closing prayer.
1384. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: And I would just like to add, you don’t need to apologize for that.
--- (Closing Prayer)
1385. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you for that closing prayer, and thank you to all who are following along with the live audio broadcast, the sharing session of the morning has now ended.
1386. Just as a reminder, electronic transcripts of what was shared this morning will be made available on the Canada Energy Regulator website at the end of today under the North Corridor Expansion Project homepage. And you can find that through links off of our main page.
1387. We will break now for lunch. Our next session will commence at approximately 1:30.
1388. And thanks again to the presenters this morning.
1389. Thank you.
--- Upon recessing at 11:54 a.m./L’audience est suspendue à 11h54
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge --- Upon resuming at 1:42 p.m./L’audience est reprise à 13h42
1390. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Good afternoon, everyone.
1391. Welcome to the Canada Energy Regulator’s oral Indigenous knowledge sessions regarding NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd.’s proposed North Corridor Expansion Project. NOVA Gas Transmission Ltd. will be referred to this afternoon as NGTL.
1392. Some of you may have heard these remarks more than once, but I will make them before the opening of every session this week, as not everyone is in the room to hear them.
1393. The sharing of oral Indigenous knowledge that we've come here to hear is scheduled to happen from Monday, February 3rd until Thursday, February 6th.
1394. And the Commission would like to begin by acknowledging that we're here on Treaty 8 lands, which are the traditional territory and homelands of many First Nations and Métis people, all of whose relationships to and connections with this land not only began long ago, but continue to present day, and will continue long after today.
1395. Treaty 8 was signed in 1899. Adhesions to this agreement were signed that same year on July 1, 1899, at Peace River Landing; July 6 at Dunvegan; July 8 at Fort Vermillion; July 13 at Fort Chipewyan; July 17 at Smith’s Landing; July 25 and 27 at Fond du Lac; August 4 at Fort McMurray; and August 4 at Wabasca Lake.
1396. Further adhesions were signed the following year in 1900 at Lesser Slave Lake, Fort Vermillion, and other locations in British Columbia and the Northwest Territories.
1397. The Commission is committed to receiving knowledge, understanding and learning from it, investing in relationships with the communities of Treaty 8 and the other communities from Treaty 6 that will be attending the sessions here this week, and to doing all that we can to move forward together on the journey of reconciliation.
1398. It is with truth and respect that we would like to acknowledge all the
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge Indigenous ancestors of these lands and reaffirm our relationship with one another.
1399. Now, I'll provide a little bit of detail about how our session will proceed this afternoon.
1400. We'll start with introductions. We'll start by introducing ourselves as a Panel. Then we will provide an opportunity for the presenters from Louis Bull Tribe to introduce themselves. And we'll also give NGTL an opportunity to introduce their representatives here today.
1401. Once we get through introductions, we'll talk a little bit about logistics, the schedule for the afternoon, and then provide some details about emergency evacuation procedures for the venue.
1402. After that, we'll provide an opportunity for parties to raise any preliminary matters and address those and we will also ensure that presenters are sworn in or affirmed as per their preferences. We do have an eagle feather here available for that purpose for you to use, and so we will get your counsel to confirm on the record how he'd like to see that proceed just before we do that.
1403. Once all of that is done and presenters have been affirmed, we'll then begin the sharing of oral Indigenous knowledge.
1404. And just a reminder, you'll see in front of you, we're using microphones today, so please speak as close to them as you can. Try to make sure the red light's on. That means the microphone's working and we can hear you. It's important for our court reporter to be able to hear you, so if we're having trouble with that, I may provide a gentle reminder to you to ensure that you're speaking clearly into the microphone.
1405. Moving to introductions, an introduction to this Panel, my name is Trena Grimoldby. I am one of the Commissioners at the Canada Energy Regulator. I am the Presiding Commissioner for the purposes of this application and for the proceedings here this week. I am from Edmonton, Alberta. My ancestors are Métis, English, and Ukrainian.
1406. And I'll now provide an opportunity for my fellow Commissioners to make their introductions to you as well. And we'll start with Commissioner Jacknife.
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1407. COMMISSIONER JACKNIFE: Good afternoon, everyone.
1408. My name is Wilma Jacknife. I am from Cold Lake First Nation in Treaty 6 territory close to the Saskatchewan border. And I'm one of the Commissioners with the Canada Energy Regulator, and I'm happy to be here today to hear what you travelled this far to share with us. Thank you.
1409. COMMISSIONER LUCIUK: Good afternoon.
1410. My name is Stephania Luciuk. I am also one of the six Commissioners of the Canada Energy Regulator.
1411. I'm originally from Saskatchewan, but I now live and work in Calgary. And I wanted to express my thanks to you for taking the time to come and participate in the proceeding today. Thank you.
1412. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: I note also that just before we got underway here, offerings of tobacco were made to the Louis Bull Tribe presenters.
1413. I'll now ask Mr. Lalji to walk us through an introduction of the presenters that are here today.
1414. MR. LALJI: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1415. I would like to thank you for your opening remarks and acknowledge our presence today on Treaty 8 territory, which is used by many Nations in the vicinity and within Treaty 8.
1416. I would like to acknowledge that I am here today with David Overall, who is also counsel; myself, counsel to Louis Bull Tribe. I have with me today Melanie Daniels, who is the Consultation Coordinator for Louis Bull Tribe and will be speaking first, and she'll introduce herself when she commences her remarks; as well, Trevor Larocque, who is a knowledge keeper for the Louis Bull Tribe, and he will be giving some information and evidence about his uses and his rights within the area of the Project, generally and specifically.
1417. As well, I'd like to confirm that each of the two Louis Bull presenters will -- or have chosen to make an affirmation with the eagle feather that will be
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge provided by the Board. And if there's anything else that -- other information that I may have omitted, please let me know.
1418. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Lalji.
1419. I'll now invite NGTL's representatives here today to introduce themselves and provide an indication of what their roles are in the proceeding today.
1420. MR. FONTAINE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1421. My name is Justin Fontaine. I'm a lawyer with the law firm of Osler, Hoksin and Harcourt in Calgary, and I'm Counsel to NGTL here today and its proceeding.
1422. To my right is Mr. Brock Gent. He is in-house legal counsel with NGTL. To his right is Paul Anderson. He's an Indigenous Relations Teams lead with NGTL. Behind Paul is Peter Andre. He's a Project Manager with NGTL and for this Project specifically. To Peter's left is Tammy Ramanat. She's a Senior Environmental Advisor with NGTL. And to Tammy's left is Jordan Toth, and she's a TK lead with NGTL.
1423. Thank you.
1424. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Fontaine.
1425. Do we have any other intervenors or parties present in the room that wish to be identified? If so, please make your way to the podium in the back and the microphone will be available for you to do so.
1426. MS. EPP: Good afternoon. Cari-Lyn Epp, Senior Environmental Assessment Coordinator with Environment and Climate Change Canada.
1427. Thank you.
1428. MR. GERRITSEN: Good afternoon. Jay Gerritsen with the Major Projects Management Office with Natural Resources Canada. Natural Resources Canada is the Crown Consultation Coordinator for this proposed project.
1429. Thank you.
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1430. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, both.
1431. I’m now going to turn the microphone over to our counsel, Joanne Gordon. She’s going to go over a few safety and housekeeping matters for us today.
1432. MS. GORDON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1433. The housekeeping matters are just letting you know that the washrooms can be located outside these main doors, to the right of the hearing room.
1434. In the unlikely event that we hear a building evacuation tone or if there is an emergency, please exit this room through the same doors you came in, and once outside the building, through the main doors of the hotel, please proceed to the muster point which is located in the southeast corner of the parking lot, and is marked by a yellow sign. Please take a roll-call of your group to make sure everyone has evacuated, and if anyone is not accounted for, please draw it to the attention of our Hearing Manager, Josh Brading, who is seated behind me; he’ll give you a little wave.
1435. To assist our session, we have a number of staff with us. So you’ve already met Josh. Jarrod Hildebrand is our IT support; he’s at the back of the room, there. Rebecca Brown, seated to my right, is Legal Counsel, as am I, Joanne Gordon. Natalia Churilova is our Process Advisor, who you’ve probably met. Courtney Bloor and Monica Rodriguez-Galvez, behind me, are our Socio- Economic Specialists. Janet Foreman is our Regulatory Officer, and our Court Reporter today, joining us from Ottawa, is Dale Waterman.
1436. We are all wearing silver nametags, so you can identify us. So if you have any questions, please feel free to speak to us. If it’s a process-related question, please direct that to Natalia.
1437. Thank you.
1438. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Joanne.
1439. I’ll also note that for security reasons, please don’t leave bags or personal belongings unattended in the hearing room, here. If you have any
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge concerns regarding safety or a safe place to keep those items, please speak to any of our staff with the silver nametags and they’ll be able to help you out.
1440. This afternoon, in terms of the schedule, we’re intending to sit until around 4:30 p.m. or so. We’ll try to take a break at a natural point in the mid- afternoon, but of course, at any time, should you need a break during your presentation, please just let me know and we’ll make that happen.
1441. The oral Indigenous knowledge that’s shared here today is going to be transcribed and form part of the hearing record. If you’ve not already done so, please let us know if you wish for any Indigenous knowledge to be treated confidentially, and then we’ll take steps to do that.
1442. Electronic transcripts of the proceedings will be made available on the Canada Energy Regulator website at the end of each day, under the North Corridor Expansion Project homepage, which you can find by following the links from the main website page.
1443. And a live audio stream of the proceeding this afternoon is being broadcast via the Canadian Energy Regulator’s website. We welcome back all of those who are listening in this afternoon.
1444. And just a reminder, if you’ve not already done so, please mute your phones in the hearing room, as they can be a bit disruptive to the proceeding.
1445. I’d like to note that the Commission understands that Louis Bull Tribe has an oral tradition for sharing Indigenous knowledge from generation to generation, and this knowledge can’t always be adequately shared in writing. We appreciate that you’ve chosen to be here today to share aspects of your traditional knowledge and your relationships to and the uses of your traditional territory with us.
1446. Thank you for helping us to better understand how they may be affected by the proposed project. It is a privilege for the Commission to hear the knowledge that will be shared today.
1447. At this point, I’d like to take the opportunity to see if there are any preliminary matters that the parties wish to raise.
1448. MR. LALJI: Hello, Madam Chair.
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1449. I don’t know if this would be an appropriate time to raise the matter which relates to the evidence that was given by Driftpile?
1450. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: It would.
1451. MR. LALJI: Thank you.
1452. So as I had an opportunity following the hearing to thank Elder Peter Freeman for his remarks, he questioned whether or not it would be possible to have a portion of his testimony or his evidence which related to his experience in residential school redacted from the printed record as well as any audio record which is prepared following the proceeding.
1453. Subsequent to that, I had an opportunity to confer with counsel for the Commission, counsel for NGTL, as well as representatives of the intervenors present, as to a consensus on moving forward on that basis and it has been agreed that, subject to the Panel’s ability to facilitate it, that we would like to seek to have the portion of the evidence that was emailed to me by counsel for the Board redacted from the audio and written transcript on the understanding that, subsequent to today’s session, I will be provided the entire transcript to confirm that that is the entirety of the testimony that the elder would like to have redacted.
1454. I am fairly confident from reviewing what was emailed to me that that is the entirety, what I’ve reviewed already, but I would like to confirm that. And with that, I would seek the permission of the Board to have the portion of the testimony that we agreed relates to his experience in residential school redacted from the record, both in recorded format and in written format.
1455. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Lalji.
1456. Mr. Fontaine, any comments in response to that? Is that your understanding as well?
1457. MR. FONTAINE: Yes, Madam Chair. That’s our understanding and we’re in agreement.
1458. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1459. And the representatives from NRCan and Environment and Climate
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge Change Canada, is that you’re understanding as well as to how you’d like to proceed? I’m seeing you both nod your heads, yes, and so I’ll just record that for the record.
1460. Ms. Gordon, anything further from your end?
1461. MS. GORDON: No, Madam Chair. I’ll just indicate that the portion of the transcript that I provided were paragraphs 1282 to 1291, but as stated, these are just a generalization right now, and we will be distributing to counsel the redacted transcript with that portion, in addition to an unredacted version, so counsel for Driftpile Cree Nation can verify that we have the entirety of the redacted request done correctly.
1462. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. So Mr. Lalji, is it your intention then to review those materials and then provide confirmation on the record that you’re satisfied with the redacted portions?
1463. MR. LALJI: I can do that. I’m not sure when the unredacted portion will be made available.
1464. MS. GORDON: I can speak to that. Both portions, both the redacted and the unredacted, will likely be made available this evening, if not, tomorrow morning. So it’s a quite quick process and turnaround.
1465. So once you’ve reviewed them, they will -- we’ll have a chance for NGTL’s counsel to look at them as well as the intervenors. They will come back to me for final review. I will send them to our Regulatory Officer and then at that point, they would be -- the redacted portion would be posted to the website.
1466. I’ll just address your other comment which was about the live audio. Of course, we know that the feed went out, but there’s a recording that’s typically posted to our website. It appears we are able to redact the corresponding portion, so once we have agreement on the transcript, we will use that to line it up with the recording.
1467. We have not done this before, but our plan right now -- and we’ll correspond with counsel to sort this out -- we would, again, correspond it to the transcript and then I will check the feed and have you do the same, and then we’ll provide it to our consultant to actually post on the website as well.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1468. MR. LALJI: Thank you, Counsel.
1469. As I will be present tomorrow for the session with Whitefish, I am hoping that during now and tomorrow, each of us will have an opportunity to confirm the parameters of what should be redacted. And hopefully at that point during -- as a procedural matter at the beginning or end of that hearing, we can confirm on the record a mutual agreement as to the paragraphs which should be redacted from the -- that we are requesting be redacted from the record.
1470. I guess the concern I have is it’s typically the procedure to send out the transcript at the end of the day. So will there be a delay in posting the transcript today to accommodate for the request?
1471. MS. GORDON: There will be a delay of posting transcripts to the website, yes. Nothing will be posted to the website until you’ve had a chance to review them, and NGTL has had a chance to review them, and I’ve had a chance to review them.
1472. But typically, we get them this evening. So this will not be a long process. I think the latest we would get all of this done would be tomorrow morning. So I don’t think there will be any concerns with addressing that.
1473. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: NGTL, any concerns about any of that?
1474. MR. FONTAINE: No, Madam Chair. No concerns on our end.
1475. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Mr. Lalji, was that satisfactory to ---
1476. MR. LALJI: That’s acceptable. And we look forward to confirming the understanding as to what shall be redacted early tomorrow and on the record during one of the subsequent hearings.
1477. Thank you.
1478. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you everyone for your submissions on that.
1479. Any other preliminary matters that anyone wishes to raise?
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1480. I take that no.
1481. As there are no other matters that have been brought to our attention, I will now ask our Regulatory Officer, Janet Foreman, to proceed with affirmations using our eagle feather.
TREVOR LAROCQUE: Affirmed MELANIE DANIELS: Affirmed
1482. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms. Foreman.
1483. We are now ready to proceed, Mr. Lalji.
--- ORAL PRESENTATION BY/REPRÉSENTATION ORALE PAR LOUIS BULL TRIBE:
1484. MR. LALJI: Thank you very much.
1485. So I will -- I’ve now introduced the representatives of Louis Bull Tribe who will be speaking.
1486. So I will turn the floor over to Melanie Daniels who will commence with her testimony.
1487. Thank you.
1488. MS. MELANIE DANIELS: Thank you, Madam Commissioner.
1489. Thank you, everybody.
1490. We appreciate being here today.
1491. My name is Melanie Daniels. I am the Consultation Coordinator for Louis Bull Tribe. I have worked for the Tribe for two years now.
1492. I have previous experience working with the federal government, the provincial government, as well as with industry, in a consultation role. So I bring 20 years of experience to this role that I provide to you for Louis Bull Tribe.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1493. I am a biologist. So I do have some -- I may not be a land user as in the traditional way, but I do have experience in relation to the land. But my primary role is to discuss our procedures and our concerns as it relates to our assertion of rights.
1494. We are not here today to oppose projects or responsible development. We were not consulted on this project and we are not seeking consultation. We have been forced into these processes to assert our rights in areas so that we can have our concerns, as they relate to impacts to treaty rights and loss of use recognized by the Government of Alberta.
1495. The Government of Alberta refuses to acknowledge Louis Bull Tribe’s treaty rights and uses outside of a very small area within Treaty 6. It has been our experience over the past decades that Treaty 6 has become so developed and so inundated with various land uses that it’s becoming next to impossible to practise rights in a peaceful and enjoyment way.
1496. Everywhere we go, there are well sites, there are gravel pits, there are forestry activities, there are the associated access roads, there’s pipelines, there are towns, there’s agriculture, and there’s recreation users.
1497. It’s becoming very apparent in my work with Louis Bull that there is less and less places for them to go that is close to home and they’re finding the need to travel further and further away to practise rights, to find safe and healthy food sources such as moose, to find safe and healthy medicines, medicines that are not impacted by dust from roads, that are not impacted by clearing, by oil and gas activity, as well as being trampled on by rec users in our area.
1498. This project is outside of the regular use area. however, we do have folks in Louis Bull that do come up into these regions, we have family members that reside in other First Nations in Treaty 8, and we still have a very viable trade network where we trade for medicines or other items with First Nations and family members that reside within this area.
1499. So it’s very important to us to stand with the Treaty 8 First Nations to protect what’s left in Alberta for our continued and future use, and especially for our future generations.
1500. It’s been my experience in the past two years in working with Louis Bull, and sadly, that the elders are no longer finding the young people that are
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge interested in pursuing treaty rights and practice and culture. And a lot of it is to do with the lack of area to go to. We have to travel three to five hours away to find somewhere where we’re not going to run into other people, where we’re not encountering industrial activity, and where we feel safe and where we can be un- harassed.
1501. I have sought -- for the record I would to ask the Board -- I’m not sure if I should call you the Board anymore, or the Regulators -- to consider offset measures for impacts to rights.
1502. I recall when I actually was an employee of TransCanada, there were offset measures imposed in certain projects to address loss of habitat for caribou. We are seeking different ways and new solutions to find ways to protect areas to practise rights in this province. We would love to have areas returned to a natural state within Treaty 6, but that battle is a long hard-fought battle.
1503. So we are here today to plead with you to help us in preserving some area where we can still practise rights, where our children, and grandchildren, and great grandchildren feel they will be able to have a place to go to.
1504. So that’s really my -- like, the position from my job as a representative -- as a Consultation Coordinator. I take it very seriously to work very hard for the Louis Bull Tribe in protecting their rights and asserting rights. It’s been a very long, frustrating road trying to seek recognition from the Government of Alberta. And they have forced us to participate in hearings like this.
1505. And this has put great demand on our capacity. I have one staff member. So I’ve -- I’m receiving consultations from the federal government through Federal Consultation Process, limited consultations from the Aboriginal Consultation Office of the Government of Alberta, but there’s also Crown-led engagement. So we have a very large workload.
1506. I also have two other roles that I play at Louis Bull Tribe. I’m the lands manager, as well as the oil and gas rep, and I do support the economic development team. So this has become very challenging for us to find the time and the resources to participate in this, just to assert and have our rights acknowledged. So I'm pretty sure I think that’s all I need to say for today. Thank you for your time and for the opportunity.
1507. MR. LALJI: I'll turn the floor over to Trevor Larocque to commence
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge his remarks, if that’s appropriate.
1508. MR. TREVOR LAROCQUE: Good afternoon.
1509. I too, I want to -- would like to acknowledge that I'm on Treaty 8 territory, and I thank you folks for having me here and hearing what I have to say.
1510. My name is Trevor Larocque. I'm from Louis Bull Tribe. I was born there.
1511. My father, he was from Louis Bull. My mother is from Samson and Maskwacis. And I'm an active hunter for my tribe. I have been hunting since -- for the past 13 years and I think I would give you a bit of history on why I do hunt. That’s how I provide for my family. Like, I hunt a lot of moose, elk, and every fall my brother and I, we go out and we'll get our -- we'll try and get an elk or a moose for our families. We'll fill our freezers which will last us the winter, and we'll also share the meat as well. So I think you have an understanding of why I do hunt.
1512. I think it's -- I got to mention my service in the U.S. Marines. I enlisted in 2003. This was when the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war had happened. And at the time, Iraq was spouting off and I felt compelled to serve. So I did want to join the Canadian Forces. That was going to be my first choice; however, they weren’t sending anybody to Iraq, and that’s where I was wanting to go, do my service.
1513. So being from Maskwacis and a First Nation member, we do have a unique situation that we're born with called the Jay Treaty, and that states that we're American and -- well, dual citizenship. That’s how I got into the U.S. Marines.
1514. So I did my service there from 2003 to 2007. I was deployed to Iraq, and I got out in 2007. I came home and from seeing what I had just been through, I did suffer from PTSD.
1515. And my mooshum, his name is Henry Lightening, he was -- he wanted to -- he was an active hunter all his life. I grew up eating the meat that he would catch, eating the fish that he would catch. And he wanted to transfer his knowledge to his grandchildren. And I had just came back from my military service and I went -- I did a lot of hunting with him.
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1516. And a lot of -- in our area, Treaty 6, it is a little difficult to get -- to find game. We are -- it's pretty developed around the area. There was a place in Medicine Lake my mooshum told me about. When he was growing up, he would tell me the stories of how in that area, he would have -- he would see rivers of elk, he would -- plenty of moose out there, and every time he went out, he said he would come back with something.
1517. And over the years with all the developments out there and the pipelines that are going through, it's just -- it's not as plentiful as it used to be. I've gone out there but I've been unsuccessful in that area. It's tough to see some wild game out there. So I'm forced to find other areas to hunt, which means I do -- I have left the Treaty 6 area. I've gone down to Treaty 7. I've hunted south, southern Alberta, northern Alberta, wherever I can find success on the hunting, on wild game.
1518. And how that helped me was to get out on the land and having my mooshum pour his knowledge into me. It was -- I found it therapeutic dealing with that PTSD that I did have, and I guess I still do.
1519. But it was therapeutic, you know, to get out on the land like that, and hunt food for my family. And it's just -- you know, it was very helpful to me. It helped me get past, well, my experiences, helped me deal with them.
1520. So I do -- I have hunted in the Treaty 8 area. I've hunted moose here, and -- yeah, I have also gone to High Level. That’s as far north as I've gotten. I've hunted there. That was for the buffalo that you're allowed to hunt out there. I was given -- I got a tag and I've hunted buffalo and brought the meat back to my family and kept a lot of the buffalo as well. I kept the hide, the head. We don’t like to waste too much on the animals we do catch.
1521. But I also like to point out that I am not a trophy hunter. I'm not out there to look for the moose with the biggest rack or the elk with the biggest rack. That’s not my intent. My intent is to feed my family. And I am going to pass this knowledge that was passed on to me from my grandpa to my children because I think it's -- I think every First Nations youth, male or female, should get -- should learn this, because the way I see it is, yes, we could just go to the grocery store and get our food -- get our meat there. But why I do it is because it's the very definition of if you don’t eat -- I mean, if you don’t work, you're not going to eat. And these are the kind of values that I'm going to pass on to my children as well.
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1522. I've actually taught my brother also. He wasn’t a hunter. He just got recently got started a few years ago with me. So I taught him how to shoot the rifle, I taught him how to hit his target, and I taught him how to quarter the animal, skin the animal. And that’s my brother Terrance Larocque. Him and I, that’s my hunting partner. He too comes with me north, south. We go wherever we can in Alberta to hunt for our families.
1523. And yeah, so what else can I say?
1524. So I am -- I do get concerned with a lot of these developments that do happen. A lot of the -- you know, with all these pipelines, I'm not -- I think we should -- there should be a nice balance between the pipelines that go through and that affect the wild game as well.
1525. This has been my family's way of life and it's been passed on to me, and I'm going to keep it going as well, to teach the younger ones what I have learned.
1526. And I just -- I do get concerned about the food we do -- the animals we do hunt, like, the deer. Some of the quality of the meat is a concern for me. In our area, there are a lot of deer that are getting sick and that’s a reason I don’t hunt too much deer. I hunt the moose and the elk.
1527. And so I think I've made my point here.
1528. But yeah, it does affect me and it's -- these kinds of things they do affect our way of life, and I do get concerned. And I hope going forward, we continue to consider, you know, the wild game health. And I think that’s all I have to say. I want to thank you for listening to me, thank you for having me here, and hai hai.
1529. MS. MELANIE DANIELS: If I could just add something I had forgotten to mention. Two things, actually, and one I wanted to say was that a lot of our observations in Treaty 6 are what I’ve hearing elders and land users, but we’ve also done data analysis.
1530. So I’ve hired a third-party consultant to analyze the data and the data that I’m referring to is the uptake of lands in Treaty 6 from 1850 to today. And when we did this, it’s an animated map that shows how the lands were taken and
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge even put into private land holdings and also the development within Crown lands in Treaty 6. And the result of this study has shown us that there is effectively less than 1 percent land left in Treaty 6 for treaty rights and traditional uses, and what is left is marginal. It’s cliff faces and riverbanks and areas that we can’t access readily.
1531. So this -- the concerns are very grand for us in that we are losing a way of life by not being able to practise rights and traditions close to home.
1532. Another concern that has come to my mind frequently when we are doing studies in Treaty 8 and in Treaty 7 is that I’m concerned and I’m sure that First Nations in these areas are concerned too, that we’re encroaching upon them. That we are taking away resources that their families and they need to use.
1533. We are not here to seek any of their economic opportunities. We are here just to try to protect areas that where we can all still practise rights. We’re hoping that perhaps the Regulator and the Proponent will work with us to try to reclaim or restore some areas in Treaty 6 that will allow us to continue to practise rights there.
1534. So I just wanted to add those two points, one about for us what's left in Treaty 6 and us encroaching on Treaty 8.
1535. So thank you again for listening to us.
--- (A short pause/Courte pause)
1536. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you both for sharing that information.
1537. I’ll provide NGTL with a quick opportunity for any comment at this point on what they’ve heard so far, and then we’ll let you know if we have any questions, as a Panel, for you.
1538. MR. FONTAINE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1539. NGTL just wishes to express its thanks for both Trevor and Melanie coming here on behalf of Louis Bull to share with us today, and that’s all. So thank you.
Transcript - REDACTED GH-002-2019 Louis Bull Tribe Oral Indigenous Knowledge 1540. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
1541. The Panel has no questions, no questions of clarification for you. We have some clarity on the information that you’ve shared and I just want to, on behalf of my fellow Commissioners, thank you again for coming, and for sharing, and for participating in the proceeding today.
1542. As I’ve stated before, it’s an honour for us to be here, to listen, to receive what was shared, and we’re really grateful for the opportunity to do so.
1543. Anything further, Mr. Lalji?
1544. MR. LALJI: Nothing further at our end. Thank you very much for your time and consideration of the evidence of Louis Bull today.
1545. THE PRESIDING COMMISSIONER: Thank you, and thank you also to everyone that was following along on the live audio broadcast on our website.
1546. We are now considering this afternoon sharing session to have concluded. Again, we thank everyone for coming and participating and as a final reminder for the afternoon, the electronic transcripts of the proceedings of the afternoon today will be made available likely by the end of the day on the Canada Energy Regulator website, under the North Corridor Expansion Project homepage, which you can get to from our main page.
1547. So thank you again. Thank you. Safe travels home if you’re leaving today and we will resume our proceedings tomorrow, a little earlier than today. We’ll start tomorrow at around 8:00 a.m., and we’ll see everyone back there then.
1548. Thank you.
--- Upon adjourning at 2:27 p.m./L’audience est ajournée à 14h27
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