Joel Buchanan Archive of African American History: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/ohfb
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program
College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
Program Director: Dr. Paul Ortiz 241 Pugh Hall PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 (352) 392-7168 https://oral.history.ufl.edu
AAHP 309 Jocelyn Carter Ingram African American History Project (AAHP) Interviewed by Marna Weston on June 10, 2013 55 minutes | 40 pages
Abstract: Jocelyn Carter Ingram was born in St. Petersburg, Florida and was raised in Gainesville, Florida. She tells about her journey through segregation across Florida. She gives detailed accounts of staples in the Gainesville community like 5th Avenue, Lincoln High School, and her time at Santa Fe. After receiving her Associates Degree, Jocelyn completed a nursing degree in Tallahassee at the Florida A&M. She tells about her dislike of University of Florida’s treatment of African Americans, gives commentary on the Trayvon Martin trial, and her concerns with the racial equity and Black advancement across the nation.
Keywords: [Sante Fe College; Florida A&M University; Nursing; Black America; Lincoln High School, Gainesville, Florida; Desegregation]
For information on terms of use of this interview, please see the SPOHP Creative Commons license at http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AfricanAmericanOralHistory.
AAHP 309 Interviewee: Jocelyn Carter Ingram Interviewer: Marna Weston Date: June 10, 2013
W: This is Marna Weston from the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on June
10th, 2013. I’m interviewing Jocelyn Mauritia Carter Ingram. Ms. Carter, if you
prefer, thank you very much for allowing me to come here to do this interview
with you today.
C: Thank you very much.
W: Could you please state and spell your first and last name just for the transcriber
gonna be able to get that.
C: Okay you say Jocelyn. I say JOHCELYN. J-O-C-E-L-Y-N. Carter, C-A-R-T-E-R.
Ingram I-N-G-R-A-M.
W: So that’s me being country with the Jocelyn because I have a cousin Jocelyn in
North Carolina.
C: Well I always said my name was Jocelyn but one day somebody asked what my
name was and I told them. My father was standing behind me. “That’s not your
name. I named you Jocelyn so your name is Jocelyn.” I said, “Here from now my
name is not Johcelyn, it’s Jocelyn.” So that’s how I got the name Jocelyn, sir.
W: Okay. When and where were you born?
C: I born St. Petersburg, Florida, 1955.
W: Okay can you give the date please?
C: December 9th, 1955.
W: Okay, were you born at a hospital? Was it a mid-wife?
C: Hospital.
W: Okay what hospital were you born in? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 2
C: All I know it’s in St. Petersburg. I can’t think of the name right now.
W: Okay, who were your mother and father?
C: Marie Davis and Wyatt Carter.
W: Do you know their birth dates?
C: My mother birthday is September the 13th, 1935. Yeah and my daddy birthday
was June 11, 1929.
W: Are either of them still living?
C: My mother still living. My father died. He was sixty-eight years old.
W: I’m very sorry for your loss. That’s young. Where does your mother live?
C: In Gainesville, Florida.
W: Okay and is she still sharp? Has all her faculties? Maybe can do one of these
interviews?
C: Yes. Oh yes she’s a very—oh my Lord, she do better than me. [Laughter] Yes.
W: Who were your mother’s mother and father?
C: Lillibelle Davis and Obi Davis and I never met my mother or my grandfather, our
mother’s father, and my father’s mother died when he was like a childbirth so we
never met his mother either and I never met his father.
W: Do you know their names?
C: Unh-uh.
W: On either side. Let’s start with your mother’s parents, do you know where they
were from? How they came to this area?
C: Well my mother, I don’t know. She met my grandfather. He’s half Cherokee and
half White, and we never met any of his people at all. So that’s we really wanted AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 3
to do. We really want to do a family tree but so far the only person who I’ve met
just my grandfather on my mother’s side and on my father’s side he wasn’t here.
I don’t even know their names.
W: Where are those folks on your mother’s side from?
C: Montgomery, Alabama. They’re from Alabama.
W: Okay and do you have brothers and sisters? Could you mention them from oldest
to youngest please?
C: I have a sister names Cynthia. She’s about our—I say she about four years
younger than me. She’s from St. Petersburg, Florida. She’s my half-sister from
my daddy’s side.
W: Are you the eldest?
C: I’m the third oldest.
W: Third oldest okay.
C: Yeah and then I have a sister Yvette from my mother and father. Yvette Hart and
she’s in Atlanta, Georgia right now. And she has two kids and then me. I’m the
second oldest. And then the third oldest is Margaret and Margaret has three
boys. And right now one, he has his doctorate in criminal justice and he’s working
on that. And then one of them just got in school for sociology and one’s in school
now in North Carolina. And then Caroline, Caroline had three kids. One was in
school in North Carolina. She has a daughter here that working at Shands. Also
she’s a cosmetologist. Her baby daughter graduated last year, just had a baby
and she’s trying to get into cosmetology school. Caroline come Donna. Donna
is—we went to nursing school together at Florida A&M University. She had a boy AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 4
and a girl. Her daughter just graduated from Florida A&M School of Pharmacy.
She’ll be a doctor in pharmacy next year because she doing internship now. Her
baby son, AC starts, he just got a full ride to the University of Florida in
engineering, bio-med engineering.
W: That’s the one with robotics you were telling me about before?
C: Yeah he starts in August of this year. And then the last one is Junior, my brother.
He has Shante [Phone goes off].
W: Okay, it’s you.
C: Could you stop that? Give me a minute.
W: Of course. Okay and its back.
C: Okay.
W: Is that your brother who was outside painting right now?
C: No no, that’s Dred. Dred is a person that, he the jack-of-all trade. He had been in
foster home all his life. People treated him wrong all his life. When he met my
mother, he fell in love with my mother. And now they do a barter system. He
don’t really have money. He’s something like a homeless person, but he paints
the [inaudible 5:32] for my mom. He do stuff around the house for my mom.
That’s how he pay his way and he like come through every so many months
because he from Jamaica. He come through, we have a list for him and now he’s
painting inside and outside the house. That’s how he pays his way which is good
because that’s expensive.
W: Yeah that’s nice. It is expensive.
C: Okay so that’s my way of, her giving back too. Because then that way he don’t AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 5
shuffling and we feed him. From him doing it everybody’s happy. Like my mom
right now she’s getting at the age now. She seventy-eight years old. She need
people to take her back and forth to the doctor and stuff like that. He’s the ideal
person to do stuff like that because my thing is I’m just getting back to
Gainesville. See I’m going through changes with my nursing so right now
everything working out fine.
W: So kind of like extended family, like a cousin?
C: He’s extended family. No, no, he’s not a cousin. He’s an extended family. Been
with my mom for years.
W: Okay.
C: And we just look out for him like family. Getting back to my brother Junior, he got
Shante and little David. Then he remarried like ten years now to another one. Her
name is Sherry, Sherry Carter. So other than that, that’s my family.
W: Okay terrific, terrific. So now what is your earliest memory of education?
C: Well. My earliest memory of education to me is when I found it was very
important. I went to Florida State one day just sitting on the campus walk around.
Really just in a lot of trouble here. You know like this day and age we hanging out
with the wrong kind of people and fuck it’s okay. I feel it’s okay to live like that,
but then I wanted more because the house that we grew up in my father build up
to it twice fold, he passed. But now since there’s more room for us I always
wanted space because that close ear. Because during the time when we moved
out here, my brother was the first child to be born in Lincoln Estate and these
houses were going for like fourteen to eighteen thousand dollars. Now these AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 6
houses are going for like resell and seventy-five and eighty thousand dollars. The
house didn’t get no bigger, but that show you the change and I’m just letting you
know. So we came out here. I went to Florida State. I just hang around the
campus. I watch everybody going in and out of class.
W: In Tallahassee?
C: In Tallahassee. I went to spend with my sister Yvette. She graduate from Florida
State, so I used to go up there and hang out this party. Party up or something. So
when my turn to come I said, “I really don’t wanna go to school. She just gonna
spend some time with me.” And from doing that I walked to the class, I was
waiting for her out the class. I kinda just walked to campus. I fell in love with the
campus watching people running to class and stuff like that. Thinking, “I want
something of my life. I want something like this.” So I came back to Gainesville
and I went to Santa Fe. I graduated from Santa Fe. I got my AA degree from
Santa Fe and then I tried to get into Santa Fe RN program or some kind of way. I
just didn’t get along with an instructor there. She was Caucasian. She just didn’t
like me for some reason because she told me that all her students were dressing
in jeans and everything. But during that time my mother, she was in school, she
was an LPN. My daddy, he was an electrician apprentice. So that means that
during that time he was making pretty good money and so that means as long as
I stay at home, my mama bought me clothes so I could dress nice. I did not know
you had to be a student, had to be dressing like you’re hungry and stuff. So, the
plain thing happened to me. I was teaching everybody in the class. You see my
thing about I like nursing and everything and I was an LPN at that time. I was AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 7
trying to get my RN license. I was teaching everybody kept saying, “How come
Jocelyn can’t pass and all the rest of us can pass?” One this person look, “Your
daughter will never make it out of Santa Fe Community College because the
bricks are set up against her. They don’t like her here.” So I left there and I went
to Florida A&M University. So I went from getting a two-year degree to a four-
year degree, which benefitted me in the end because everybody got a two-year
degree now, they trying to get their four-year degree. So that’s when I found out
then that was very important to me then to go ahead and get an education so I
could make something of my own, because God bless the child that has his own.
And when I did done got my education and got my degree, I was able to see
myself moving. I was able to help other people and then I could [inaudible 9:15].
That’s why I’m back home now.
W: I’m gonna come back to your earliest education but I wanna talk to you just a little
bit about FAMU for a second since you mentioned it. What was it like being a
student at FAMU?
C: Oh my God. It was beautiful for me because my thing is, see I’m suffering from
hyperactivity. I was born this way. My father always said, “Take her to the doctor,
put on some adrenaline.” My father know I’d never do it like that. I got some
control of that. I beat that butt. [Inaudible 9:43] I beat that butt. My death of my
father controlled mine, but beating me, we didn’t even think about it. I didn’t
turn out so bad. I got my four year degree from Florida A&M University. A lot of
people who run around like me, hey, they still ain’t got anything. But then again
FAMU give you a chance to—my thing is I want an A-B student but I’m a AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 8
struggling C student. I see my way through, but C students are the strong
students. See because I had to really get down to studying. A-B students, they
memorize their stuff. When it came down to the comprehensive, that’s when it
counted. The comprehensive. I was able to keep all of it, even hyper and
everything. I studied hard. I worked at night as an LPN, but I made it. It was very
hard. I thank FAMU gave me the opportunity that Santa Fe didn’t.
W: Was there a bigger statement—Santa Fe, an integrated campus, FAMU also an
integrated campus, but a historically Black college, an 1890 institution. Could you
see differences between the two? Hello!
C: Hey! Yeah at Florida A&M even though we had some Caucasian students, they
still talked about the Black [inaudible 10:38]. If they once say Black or whatever
come out, you in a Black institution. We teaching our people; you have to go
along for the ride. [Inaudible 10:44-10:45] I feel they talked over our head. We
didn’t know what was going on. We didn’t know. But FAMU gonna come straight
at you with it and that way from sitting up in there, if they wanna say it, they
gonna say it. If they say that it changes color but then [inaudible 10:58]. “You
going through this, see how they doing us?” We did them just as bad but when
you come out there you was tough and you was strong, you hear me? And they
loved it. I just came from my class reunion. We had one person sitting up in there
who was Caucasian. Let me tell you, he was strong. He came in seventh grade
when I met him. He was the one also helped write our class alma mater. Helped
come up with different—like our decision about the school colors and stuff like
that. And he still coming. AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 9
W: What’s his name?
C: His name Overby. You know Charles.
W: The only White gentleman who was at the reunion.
C: Yeah, yeah.
W: Played football too.
C: Yeah and was a fast runner. I know why he’s fast. Because during the time when
we first integrated the school, we were chasing him. And let me tell you
something, we couldn’t catch that one. [Laughter]. But other than that, it just
taught me that I’m trying—this what people don’t understand. People liked Mr.
Overby. If it weren’t for him, it [inaudible 11:53] slavery. Because it was people
like him that helped them to get out. I remember that because the love in his
heart from the time I met that man, he hasn’t changed none, that’s how you
know.
W: It’s very memorable. I was listening to Mr. Young’s earlier the Alonzo letter,
Lard. He was very comfortable where he was because they said, “Oh somebody
here’s from Newberry High.” I knew it wasn’t him I was like, “Who was from
Newberry?” Because he’s with Eastside. [Laughter]. He had just settled on in.
C: And that’s one thing too. When we first got started, I remember I we was walking
down. We would walk from Lake Eastside all the time because the bus wouldn’t
ride or they kicked us off the bus. We used to come down. It was alright for us to
fight with him, but when the time to stand together, we all stood together. I don’t
know what happened; it just happened that we all start looking at each other. We
out here together saying we wasn’t gonna make it. We just start bonding up. And AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 10
I know that we had the largest cheerleading team during that time. The Blacks and the White. And we had twelve Blacks; we had twelve Whites. When we first came up, we was all Black. Then all of a sudden now they want to get on the team but they couldn’t jump, they couldn’t run, they couldn’t cheer. They was awkward. Oh my God, we had one White girl, let me tell you something. But let me tell you something, but some of them named Pam and Jackie and the tail girls, oh let me tell you something, when they really got with the sisters. If you close your eyes and see them in the dark, their hair was wavy, you didn’t know what it was. We had [inaudible 13:27] and we start coming and bonding. And then when we was going to the football games, stuff like that like, we used to ride with [inaudible 13:31]. They used to tell us those racist jokes and stuff like that like, “Oh my God, sit up in the car.” They just laughing, but we sitting in the car riding to the football game with them. And I told the person, I said, “Look, I can’t ride like that. They’re telling racist jokes and everything. I can’t deal with the monkey jokes now.” Either think they it’s funny and telling us that they people brought the KKK, they gonna get us. I said, “Sir, I can’t deal with this.” That’s they way of fun; they didn’t know us. We in here thinking, “That was against the line.
We didn’t know they were crossing the line.” But otherwise after we got through all of that and talked to the parents and press and stuff, we stood together and we bonded pretty good. I think it’s surprising that just only one was there. But did say all the Eastside [inaudible 14:10], so that might have something to do with it. AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 11
W: Well like I said I’m gonna keep going back again, I’m gonna stay in the moment.
What did you think about the reunion? What did that mean to you and why were
you there?
C: Okay because I hadn’t seen them in forty years. Out of all the reunions, this my
first time come back because during that time, I guess when I went to Atlanta, I
didn’t never come on to the class reunions. It wasn’t that much to me, but then
again, as I got older—just like Malcom X said, “We all come back to the roots,”
right? We did. I’m old and I wanna retire here. I want home. These people here, I
know these people since I feel it in my heart they still the same when in high
school. When I was in Atlanta, I never could get that bond or closeness with the
people. It’s like they just come and go. They really don’t care. It’s no bonding.
You know what I mean? Values, everybody’s different. When I come here, I
guess I’m like a fish in my own water. I feel good about myself. I see problems
here that need to be resolved, worked out, stuff that I can see. Getting a job here
and also starting a business to help my community and do something for myself
too.
W: Well let’s go ahead and go back then. I wanna talk to you about when I said your
earliest education I meant elementary school. Where did you go to elementary
school?
C: Oh William Elementary School, right down there.
W: Okay so within walking distance from here?
C: William here and Lincoln here.
W: Okay, who was the principal? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 12
C: At William Elementary School? Now don’t take me back that far. Mr. John Dukes
was our—he was also at Lincoln High and also Eastside. John Dukes Jr. I don’t
remember at William Elementary School.
W: Who was your best friend when you were in elementary school?
C: I think Shirley White. I think she went to elementary school here. Francis Bisset.
I had a lot of them. I was a social butterfly.
W: Oh you were a cheerleader?
C: Yeah I liked everybody so I think I got along with everybody. I didn’t really, really
have none so I just kinda like clichéd off—and that’s another reason why I didn’t
join a sorority when I was in college. Because I couldn’t just hang out with just
you when I like everybody. So [inaudible 16:16] with their little groups and stuff or
their sorority sisters and stuff. We all came together. Back to me, because I think
I didn’t want anything but I had them all so I liked that. I had five sisters, five
brothers. I didn’t let nobody beat my butt on no doggone line because if I’m head
of the line, you my sister, you gonna let them come and beat me? I’m trying to be
able to build my own line. Because they couldn’t handle me, so I told them,
“No, y’all go on with that.” [Inaudible 16:39] you gonna take my car? Come on,
now. I grew up with to—my daddy beat my butt too much during that time. Why
should I go at let y’all beat me for a man?
W: Do you have any memories of teachers from elementary school that really stood
out and have continued having an impact on your life today because they were
your teachers then? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 13
C: Yeah well a lot of them—Ms. Howard at William Elementary School. Ms.
Hightower, she’s decreased right now. All the ones that I know are Mr. Aires.
Now William Elementary School, I really don’t remember too much from
elementary school. That I really, really—I knew I had a problem and I was trying
to hide it so much it cost so much energy for me trying to hide my problem from
the kids knowing I so hyper that I couldn’t read, that I just moving so fast that I
didn’t have time for all of that. I was focusing on my way of trying to stay hidden
in the group, because I didn’t want to be labeled as being special.
W: Okay, well we leave elementary school and we go to middle school. I’m guessing
you did seventh and eighth grade at Lincoln.
C: Unh-uh, no. Seventh and eighth, they split us up and sent to Howard Bishop. Half
year seventh, seventh grade—seventh grade is when segregation ended and
they split the school up.
W: Okay, so you never went to Lincoln Middle School?
C: No. Lincoln High seventh grade.
W: Yeah seventh through twelfth, I’m just—
C: William Elementary from that to sixth grade. Then from seventh I went to Lincoln
High School, that’s when everything changed.
W: Okay so you go to Lincoln in seventh grade and you—what was your attitude
about Lincoln? You were gonna graduate and be a terrier. You just knew you
were there, what was that like?
C: I was trying out for the cheerleading team and everything and during that time
when they stopped everything going on, the segregation came in, I had to go to AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 14
another school, start all over again. Didn’t know anybody. You all had older
people to look up to, mentors. When they split everything, we became our own
mentors. We didn’t have anybody to look for. Then that’s when all the fight and
everything came in.
W: So that whole tradition of being a Lincoln High School student, children look
forward, to came to an abrupt end at seventh grade.
C: The cheerleader, yeah and we didn’t wanna go nowhere. Right.
W: So eighth grade year, you went to Howard Bishop for the double session. Did
you go in the morning or in the afternoon?
C: I think we in the morning.
W: Okay and do you remember any teachers from—
C: Yes I remember Mr. Squall and Mr.—we was just talking about him, Mr. Squall,
he the science teacher during the time when the risers up and wrote down, “N-I-
G-G go home, we don’t want you out here.” They stopped everything, they want
us to go to class, but when we came out to see everything written down, “What’s
going on? What is written?” “We can still see it” “Oh we fixing to get ‘em, we
fixing to tear the place up.” But I learned from Mr. Squall, he wouldn’t let us own
that door. He got in front on that door. He said, “Oh no, so you gonna get your
foot from the front of that door.” He said, “No I’m not going nowhere.” He said,
“Y’all my students, y’all do better, y’all deserve to let that stand, y’all stand on
me.” Then the students and guy came through, “Oh no we fixing to push you out
there.” “Wait a minute. Anybody touch him, he gotta go through me.” And then
the girls we stood together, he was behind us and stuff like that.” I said, “This AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 15
White man in here trying to help us. Y’all think y’all gonna beat and go down to
get there?” I said, “Oh no, you ain’t going there.” He told everybody to sit down,
he took control, got them to sit down. We sat about twenty, thirty minutes, then
we hear things going on, screaming and stuff just breaking. And I said, “You
know what? I think Mr. Squall you feel pretty comfortable right now?” He said
“Yeah.” I said, “If you’re pretty comfortable, we gotta get on and go now. We
gotta get on outta here.” Time I hit that doggone door my dad was standing there.
He made us get it in the truck: me and my cousin, my sister Margaret so we
couldn’t get into during the time this fight [inaudible 20:08]. Because he [inaudible
20:10] He knew! He came from his job and we was so embarrassed that
[inaudible 20:16] put us in the back of truck and stuff like that. Riding down
[Laughter] taking us home away from all the violence and stuff.
W: So basically was a strong-handed lesson, there’s a riot taking place outside.
C: It was a riot and it was a big—
W: At Howard Bishop?
C: Yeah.
W: Okay.
C: Yeah and that’s what I’m trying to tell you, that’s how I knew Overby can run and
Brenda Stanley. Brenda Stanley was another White girl that I used to love
because she can run. That girl can run! My Lord we tried to run her down.
Because I said, “Brenda run Brenda run!” Brenda nothing to run far for. I said
“Brenda run, Brenda run, they gonna catch you Brenda.” Brenda was running
bolt down, nobody could catch Brenda. I said, “You go girl! They ain’t gonna get AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 16
you Brenda!” [Laughter]. That’s a funny thing that we talked about. Nothing
going during that time come back together and I was telling Brenda how she was
running and how she used to run track and stuff. Stuff like that, things start
coming together, you start protecting, to learn to protect each other. Bonding and
staying together.
W: So you had no idea when you went to seventh grade that integration was
coming. It’s just they just told y’all, bam, and then boom off to Howard Bishop.
C: We really know what it was until I finally, “What’s going on?” That’s when you
start going, “Oh my God.” Then you start saying [inaudible 21:23] like when you
start losing stuff, you know what I mean because now ain’t no Black, ain’t no
White. Now we gotta come together. So they had to give them Black and White
signs. How you gonna have a Colored and White sign at your school?
W: There were Colored and White signs at the school?
C: No! No way. That’s what I said, you couldn’t have that there.
W: Oh okay.
C: So before then, that’s what I was trying to tell you, at down at the courthouse
where they start—we sit down there then. You know just sitting around at the
courthouse waiting for changes to come about the code, we took the signs out.
W: So when you grew up though, you did notice those signs?
C: They were there, you could see them, they was there. There’s white sign but
written in black writing “Black and White Bathroom.”
W: Wow. AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 17
C: You could do nothing but see the sign. And I always had a problem with it
because my thing is even traveling down the road my daddy said, “Put your head
down put your head down!” “Put your head down for what?” If you put your head
down, you can’t see nothing. Some people, all these KKK walking around and
stuff in they little hoods and stuff.
W: Here in Gainesville?
C: No, we was passing. How we go traveling we pass through Tallahassee. Down
Tennessee Street and I peeping. Just peeping going on and they were looking at
us. They do know and they was looking at me dead in the eye. I could not
believe that. That was the worst feeling I ever felt, hear me? That cold, piercing
feeling when people look at you and you can see the hate in they eye that you
don’t know why somebody hating you.
W: Right on Tennessee Street?
C: Tennessee Street. My dad was driving, because think about during that time, my
daddy’s a hard worker so we always had new cars. Except during that time we
didn’t know we was poor because my daddy kept us away from all that kind of
stuff. So that’s when I go to the bathroom anywhere store we go to the Colored
bathroom, I don’t go over there. I always went to the White bathroom because it
always nice and clean. But when we come out there, people always standing
around the door and my dad said, “Oh my God, oh my God. Get back in the car,
get back in the car.” I said, “Dad, I want some ice cream.” He said, “We’ll get
some ice cream somewhere else, you get back in the car.” I said, “Why they ask
us about these damn bathroom [inaudible 23:09] I can’t go in this bathroom? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 18
What’s going on? He kept it away from—I didn’t know what was going on. He
said, “Didn’t I tell you to get in the car? When I tell you—“What if I’m trying to find
out what’s going on?” We about get ready to change inside. We don’t know
about all this other stuff here. I just don’t want that now because I’m in the
middle part. I’m not going back this way, I’m going on so everything mended, I’m
fighting it. And he said, “You trying to get us killed?” I said “They don’t—Cause I
want some ice cream.” I say—And when we was leaving, there was a jeep come
up with White people in it. [Inaudible 23:36]. “Get in the car, get in the car!” We
got in the car. We coming out. One way in, one way out. We passed them when
we was going by.
W: What grade were you in at this time?
C: Oh my God, I don’t know. I was probably like sixth, seventh grade.
W: So this is late [19]60s?
C: Yeah, that’s before the signs came down.
W: Yeah, before the signs.
C: And I know it’s not that I don’t wanna go, I just going to the bathroom, I was
moving so fast they always do something wrong cause they never stopped me.
Because they thought I was special anyway. So when I go take my sisters and
brothers to the bathroom and you moving slower, people come and like, “What’s
going on?” Let me tell you “What’s going on” because I didn’t know and they
didn’t know anything either. Because we was at that age my mommy and daddy
protected us so well. And then as I got older, I start seeing all that stuff is for real.
My daddy protect us from that because we really didn’t know anything. I’m for AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 19
real. My daddy and mama kept away from every [inaudible 24:24] stick their head
up, but they had a way of making it seem it was alright. So that’s why I never, I
never I never really really felt it.
W: So 1971 the State of Florida finally adopts mandatory integration of public
schools. Now Brown vs. Board was 1955. It was 1970, okay so the year you
were born is when they said the schools needed to be integrated. But they don’t
integrate them until 1971. So you were in ninth grade in 1971?
C: Because I graduated 1973’s ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth.
W: So you become a tenth grader on that year and they finally finished building
Eastside and Buchholz high schools.
C: Right.
W: And you went to Eastside?
C: Yes.
W: What was that first year on the campus at Eastside your tenth grade year like?
C: Fighting. We fought all the time and after a while and what really started putting
them together, football.
W: Okay.
C: Football, like them down there? Everybody was scared of them even if people
knew they were just off the chain. But my thing, when they got together and they
got [inaudible 25:26] turn the engines on that are fighting other schools taking
out—it started getting better. That’s when we start getting closer.
W: Lamard Young said that turning point for him, what he saw as the key moment
was going on the road to Bowls and beating them forty-four to nothing. He said AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 20
that was the central moment that they came in they were yelling “N-word this, n-
word that.” But even the White players, everybody got together and said, “We’re
gonna win.” As part of the cheerleaders you’d have saw that. What do you
remember about that forty-four to nothing victory over Bowls that year?
C: Well my thing like that see, I was cheering. I was just was having fun, but during
that time, I don’t know, it was moving so fast. Because when people didn’t wanna
fight after the games. We’re not just standing around there, what they do is they
get moving us in and out and they didn’t let us ride the bus with the guys, you
know what I mean? Because they wanted to keep them focused so if anything
we didn’t know. Most of them, they always head out before we did. Or they’ll stay
before or come in late. So my thing, we all spoke with the principal or family
members, like I told you. People bringing stuff like that, so other than that, we
won, I’m fine with that, but other than that all I know it was moving real fast.
Because it was a lot of racial people—now that I think about it people still even—
Black people remember something when you win when you’re winning and
losing.
W: Yeah exactly.
C: So come on, how could you really say that you know what I mean?
W: But there’s a difference in the feeling when it’s being said though—
C: That way.
W: So you weren’t with the players. He said it was an emotional moment but in your
memory was that a big game you know that beat Bowls forty-four to nothing? He
said he scored four touchdowns. AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 21
C: Well see, my thing where I grew up, it really really that deep to me, because, my
daddy shied away from it. So I looked at all the niggas just cause we lost the
game. I didn’t think it was racial, color-related or nothing like that. I just thought
because you got your tail beaten. So it alters your mind frame you’re thinking in
too. So that’s how I was looking at it.
W: What was the high point of that tenth grade year? Well if you can call a high point
and a low point in that tenth grade year.
C: I don’t know, I always had a good time in high school. I guess I cheered all the
time. I always tried to be a part of the thing, I was always for the underdog. So
my high point was I guess the violence stopped. We could come together, do
more things together as a team. Cause you can tell I’m really into it. I like people;
I like positive things. I don’t like nothing negative. Like I say, I’m always for the
underdog.
W: What clubs and organizations were you involved in besides cheerleading?
C: National Honor Roll Society. I was also in drama. What is it called? Athletics,
stuff like that.
W: What was your favorite subject in tenth grade?
C: I always liked science.
W: Okay and the science teacher?
C: Mr. Jones.
W: Mr. Jones, you said that real quick, so what is it about Mr. Jones that you
remember? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 22
C: Mr. Jones, he was tall and slender. He was a basketball player and he didn’t
[inaudible 28:13]. Mr. Jones and Mr. Eras they talk you know like science and
stuff and they was strong male figures. It was good. When he spoke, the boys
listened because they had control. If you got control of your class, everybody
gonna fall in line. If you let the guys take control, ain’t nobody got respect for you.
[Inaudible 28:29] but when they took control people sat down and listened and I
just liked the way they talked. They kept it interesting too.
W: Now junior year you all have been responsible for hosting the prom and all that
kind of stuff so, what was your junior year like at Eastside?
C: Like I said, my thing is that I usually do some weird things but my thing is like I
was always for the underdog when people couldn’t get dates or something like
that. I have a boyfriend she go with my boyfriend. If a friend couldn’t get a
date, I’d go with the underdog who couldn’t go and I just tell my boyfriend “I’ll
meet you after.” You got me. He ain’t got nobody. [Inaudible 29:00]. Because
see, people commit suicide for little small things. I try to look out for everything.
You see somebody so sad, never being involved in anything. Always sitting in the
corner, I go get you. “You talking to me?” I say, “Why I can’t talk to you?” I was a
puller. It didn’t matter to me. I didn’t care about that. I also found that [inaudible
29:20] told me, because after we rode off our little reunion dinner. [Inaudible 29-
28]. “Becky, you was different.” Cause my nickname was Becky. When you’s
coming “Why is that you always was running?” “Yes, I was always running
because I was hyper and I didn’t wanna really talk to anybody so used to run
home all the time.” But they said they couldn’t catch up with me or really talk to AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 23
me because I never would go with anybody in my class in my school because
they all—I can see right through them. It was the way I was brought up. I didn’t
wanna go with anybody at my school. I wanted to get away. I was different,
really, really positive. Doing things with these other cheerleaders, but my dad
was strict so I kinda stayed home a lot.
W: What about your senior year? Now you’re about to be the first graduating class
from Eastside. Were you all really aware of that, that you were making history?
How did you feel?
C: We was the first pioneer class. Yeah, oh yeah, that’s another brought us closer
together too, because we started it and we showed them that it can work. And
like Eastside, we did not have hate. We were not dumb, at all you hear me?
Academically we was very good at it. And my thing like this I’m not a journalist,
no that’s not me, I’m a nurse. I am a Florence Nightingale. Like I well of the last
of [inaudible 30:33] my age now. That’s why it worry me so much right now,
because who passes the legacy on? Good nursing. That’s all I know, I love
nursing. So other than that—.
W: Do you feel a strong connection to the current Eastside High School? I notice you
all mentioned there today that the words of the song have changed. Your class
song is longer than the one they use right now. It’s a little bit shorter, but the first
part of it is exactly the same. Do you feel a connection to the current Eastside
High School or do you feel more of a connection to Eastside as it was?
C: I’m connected as it was when I was in school, because now, like I said, I’ve been
gone for forty years so only thing I knew was what I— AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 24
W: Have you been over to the school?
C: Unh-uh.
W: Okay.
C: Like now they got gates and stuff. My first year you just walk on and now they got
gates here and gates like a prison or something you’re locked in. I said, “No
that’s not the Eastside I went to.” Before when they needed the gates, they didn’t
have them. Right now everything under control. Why you got the gates now?
W: [Laughter].
C: Am I wrong?
W: You just tickle me, that’s all.
C: All day we was fighting and going on. Today you locking up right now?
Everything’s cool got this big old guard gates over there which I don’t
understand. I don’t know if it got people bringing a lot of weapons and stuff
because I don’t know about that, but during the time when we fought with sticks
and stones and our fists. We didn’t use blades and guns and all that kind of stuff.
We didn’t do that kind of fighting and stuff and next day you come up, we friends.
So what’s going on now?
W: Would you consider being a part of the legacy that Eastside is currently building?
You know volunteering and going back seeing what’s going on with the school,
helping the band or things like that?
C: Yeah, that’d be fun. I think that be good. It’d give me something to do. And
especially I can just pose like the cheerleaders. I prefer to work with them. And
then also start like a nursing grid or something like teaching them healthcare or AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 25
something like that because it’s one thing you could always—you can make it in
the nursing field. Because other people awfully dying, babies being born, people
be sick need, somebody to care for ‘em. Have got to get medicine. Now that’s
like something I could teach them.
W: Lenard Young mentioned earlier this morning he was disappointed that when
the schools were district that Lincoln Estates was taken out and made a part of
Buchholz instead of a part of Eastside. What are your thoughts about Lincoln
Estates and its tie to the Eastside history as opposed to students here being
zoned and going to Buchholz?
C: From when [inaudible 32:49] they doing the cross-busing.
W: Yeah.
C: Well, I’m like, well I’m at this cross-busing and stuff to me should be getting
education from the same school. You ain’t gotta cross the bus to me. If a person
was safe at home and close at home, if you miss your bus, [inaudible 33:05].
They’re doing the wrong thing to start, leave it just as it is. If I could walk to my
school, it’s better for me than if I miss my bus I can’t get there.
W: Now the argument before was that you know busing people out away from
places—that two bus route added to diversity. A lot of people now, the schools
are almost re-segregating with the people walking to school and getting closer. Is
there a balance that I’m missing? What are your thoughts on your neighborhood
schools?
C: All I know is during the time we coming up we did pretty good and if it weren’t
done—if it’ll work, why not? Let it work. If not, if people unhappy, call them AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 26
problems, and people being picked up back and forth the school and stuff like
that, to me that’s not helping the problem. Who’s it helping? Is it for the
community, the kids in the community? They go back and forth to school you put
the extra pressure on them, now they gotta worry about that. To me, the cross-
bus thing, I don’t see no benefit in it. It’s somebody gonna better themselves,
cross-bus the teachers. You know because it’s easier for one person get through
over here than take a whole bus over there. But then my thing, another thing too I
didn’t have any kids or anything, so I really didn’t have to feel that pressure. Only
thing I was worried about was me and when I came out of school that was it for
me. If I had kids—because right now my little niece, she moved because her
child is in some kind of gifted program at GHS and for him to be in that she had
to move closer because she move. She actually moved a couple of months ago
so that her son can continue to go to GHS because he is in some kind of gifted
program. Everybody can’t do that but she put her child before her and she lost a
lot of things so he can do it to get that chance you know.
W: When you think about Gainesville the way it was when you were growing up, how
is it different now? Did you spend time off 5th Ave? What kind of things do you
remember that are different now?
C: Lord you don’t know. The only thing different now—it’s still the same especially
when it comes to the University of Florida. It’s a lot of things for the White people;
there are a lot of places down in downtown [inaudible 35:06] always trying to get
a club or some kind of radio station. They tried to get this for years and right now
it’s still the same way. Ain’t nobody getting it; it’s still the same way. It’s good if AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 27
you were White, but if you Black I said there’s a lot of negative [inaudible 35:18]
back here. I’m serious. I hate to say it right now. I went over there down Friday to
something at the Bo Diddley club down there. It was so many mixed people down
there ain’t nobody got no place to go. They might have got—it’s not about Black
and White no more. Everybody in the Baptist age now we don’t have any place to
go now. You hear me? First it was just for us. Now it’s for everybody; different
age group. They could be young, at college it’s be the party all over but after
college life is over, what about us? [Inaudible 35:44] it’s nothing for us to do. So
they gotta change. They gotta make a club for everybody so like a nice jazz club.
We need that. You don’t [inaudible 35:54] all that nasty things and stuff, just a
nice jazz club just for people to go in there and listen to music. Like the guy did
sitting down there, if you wanna dance, go dance by yourself. Have a little drink
and that’s it. Right now, they still doing the same thing when I left forty years ago.
Ain’t nothing changed. Besides the color sides, there’s nothing different. The
sides are down.
W: So Gainesville caters to the White and the young?
C: Yes! They are yeah! Come on y’all know that, Gators. And with that school, I feel
sorry for the Black people there. I feel sorry for them because they really love
themselves some Gators and the Gators don’t give a damn about them. They let
them walk around, they be with “Gators” on their car. Ain’t probably haven’t been
to a game [inaudible 36:35]. They really love these little Gators. I’m trying to tell
them for them to love them so much, do something for them. Give some tickets
to them, let them come to events sometime. Either the Gators got the orange and AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 28
blue cars everywhere, flags everywhere and they ain’t been over there. It’s sad
but they really love them, that’s why I said they need to do more for the Black
people here.
W: When you were in high school did you have a less strong tie with University of
Florida than with other schools and if so, why?
C: University of Florida, I’m trying to tell you the way how they did my brother, how
they did my boyfriend, who I knew because I was always attracted to smart men,
how they ran them off. They told [inaudible 37:12] they were even going to class
drunk. They just do the test give them passing A and in the same test I get a C.
You know stuff like that, it bothered me. I never wanted to go to the University of
Florida. I never liked University of Florida. And right now I hear my nephew
wanna come up and wanna be a Gator. It’s stuff like that.
W: That doesn’t sit with you.
C: No. But then again, that’s what he wants. But I keep saying, “Out of all the
schools, why here?” They love themselves some Gators. Every single color.
They bleed orange and blue for real. But that’s why they should treat them a little
bit better. Do more for them, give them a free day of a game or something like
that. For the ones that can’t afford nothing. All these Gator signs and all the
things they putting together should pay enough for them. Do something for your
people, do something back for your community. The University of Florida and you
do something for your community.
W: What’s your definition of leadership? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 29
C: Leadership? Me, I think I’m a leader and the reason I said because my thing, I’m
able to identify problems and since seeing a problem is—coming up with a
solution for a problem. Let’s solve the problem. If they can’t come up with a
solution to solve it, that’s when I want to get some help because if I can solve
problems and I need somebody to help me, that’s why I do with mentors, I’m like
“What am I doing wrong?” “How can we handle this?” Because a leader is a
person that can know when somebody needs help. [Inaudible 38:31] I know from
watching you, I know what kind of person you are. I can tell when you’re down.
Being able to identify problems before it get to be too bad, you know what I
mean? A person that have my integrity of my, what I want of other people too.
You know what I mean? I think a leader is a person that just step up to the plate.
W: Did you pick up any feelings of leadership in this organization of getting schools
together with Eastside and GHS?
C: No, no, see I didn’t have anything to do with that because—.
W: No but I’m asking is your perception that there are leaders involved that
something would be taking place?
C: Oh yes. That’s why there’s a lot of leaders at Eastside like Maryn Nosters is one
for sure and like there’s a few of them [inaudible 39:17] I would just sit back. I
was a cheerleader. I said “What are you gonna do?” “I followed. “I got your back.”
[Inaudible 39:22] I get older now, like I said there’s no sure thing that I want to
say or do. I’m like “Listen sir let’s see the way that you want to hear.” I’m not
trying to be a journalist. I’m not trying to teach you, I’m trying to give you the beat
of what’s going on here. Everybody don’t read the same, they don’t learn the AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 30
same way, you know what I mean? Everybody don’t feel the same thing. With my
thing it’s definitely to learn and what are we—you don’t even have to speak
English. If I wanna tell you something to get done I’ll get it done, I’ll get you. If
there’s some days that won’t don’t worry I got you. From being in the hospital a
lot of people don’t speak English but from being a nurse for so many years, I
know your needs. I know the disease process, I know certain things happen that
you don’t even know what’s happening yourself before I know it. I know what you
want before you know. Okay? Because [Inaudible 40:05].
W: I’m gonna mention just a couple of you know names or events and you can
respond as you will. I’ll start with the first one: The George Zimmerman trial in
Trayvon Martin’s murder started in Sanford today. What are your thoughts on
that?
C: First of all, my thoughts and my heart go out to Trayvon’s family because he was
just a teenager and Zimmerman was just this wrong and redneck as he want to
be. And they just go ahead with all this fighting. You know what really gets me?
We hear this stuff daily on the radio, we see it on TV saying “You know it’s not
true” but we can’t do anything about it. We still wasting tax payers’ money just
because that man’s guilty. You know what I mean? Step up to the plate. When
you see something wrong, don’t feed into it. Just say, “Look, evidence showing
this and this and here, okay let’s not waste any more time on it.” That man is
guilty. [Inaudible 40:57] you got evidence, we can hear it and you got evidence
that can hear me steal gun him and bolt come on there’s certain you say “Look.
Let’s just close the door. Let’s not waste our time with it.” You see that’s how I AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 31
think about it. I don’t waste time on it. He guilty. That’s how I feel. He killed that
boy.
W: Barack, Michelle, Sasha, and Malia Obama, the first family.
C: The perfect ideal family. I just wish there a boy in there. But other than that I’ll
say he’s a great father [inaudible 41:30]. They make him go back on a whole lot
of things. He came up when the Republicans over there now. He’s the
President, he need to stop and be the President and say look “I’ve been listening
to this bull y’all been telling me for four years. This my last year, I’m doing what’s
right for my people. You know I’m the President. I’m act like [inaudible 41:43] this
going through.” Let it go, that’s how I do. Stand up, let it go.
W: Barack Obama’s entire story, you know the stories from his father, the book, him
being from Kenya, and his mother being White from Kansas. His grandparents
being White and World War II era veterans, do you think that it’s more likely that
he won because he was able to display that biracialism? Would it have been
possible for him to win if for example his entire family had been Black, would he
be President right now in your opinion?
C: I think he made it hard for them from him being biracial and having different
cultures influencing him because like now they can’t say “We voted because he
was all Black.” “We voted for all White.” I think from him being the way he is, I
think that had a lot to do with him [inaudible 42:30]. Even it’s more hard for him to
do it but I’m glad but like now, because see, the way things going right now we
ain’t got no best fire the White is fighting so hard. During from the time when I
was coming up, we had Whites and we had Blacks. Right now we got so many AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 32
interracial people here we’d done mixed down to a melting pot. We Black and
White now. So eventually they’re mad because now the way things going now we
not gonna have no racism. [Inaudible 42:54] we all gonna be the same color. So
who you gonna hate then? See and that’s what they are afraid because some
people need people to hate and the way things are going right now with the
mixing of all them races and something. Like that my brother, right now he’s
married to a White lady and let me tell you something, she’s a good one. I love
her. I never thought that I’d say nothing like this because the first wife he had, I
loved her too, but this White lady, the love and affection that she shows to my
brother, I don’t see color no more until you make me see it. Because she came in
and hold his hand, but I hate to say this, she to me is a Black woman trapped in a
White woman’s body. You ever heard of that? We got one. I got one. She White
but there’s a Black woman in there. She cook too good, her ass too big, she
knows too much. [Laughter] But that’s my White girl.
W: What do you say is the biggest problem facing America? But first let’s start with
Black America and then go to America. So what’s the largest problem facing
Black America today?
C: We losing all our Blacks like I say, it’s changing. Can’t say Black America no
more. Am I lying? Come on now, another ten years all these—come on. Even my
mother, my mother living up-state, every last one of them have like maybe
Indian, maybe Hispanic, and a Caucasian in their family and that’s just one family
alone, different ones have one.
W: So you see the demographic shift as the biggest thing? AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 33
C: Yeah and we gotta get used to that because you can’t say that “Don’t give him
the job because—.” It ain’t gonna be like that. It’s happening and that’s a good
thing. That’s what’s gonna, I hope that’s what’s gonna save us too.
W: So what’s the biggest issue facing America then?
C: Republicans. [Laughter].
W: Could you elaborate? What do you mean?
C: Because like now, okay, like for instance, the Republicans most of them in
Oklahoma, they didn’t want the money from Obama helping with all this kind of
nonsense the state is all torn- guess what? They need the money now. Now they
see what he was trying to show them. Don’t wait to need something. We gonna
get set up right now before your people start getting sick or anything happen you
already got it set up. So that’s—come on, you got your form. But right now youse
talk so bad because you Republican you don’t need no help from [inaudible
45:14]. Hurricane come through and everybody suffering. Republicans are left,
now you need funds. Who gonna give them to them? Obama.
W: So you’re saying your criticism is that conservatives have complained about
FEMA and the reach of the national government so now here’s a situation where
it’s needed.
C: Before they put the saying “What you gonna do now?” Take it. He did this for a
reason to show you just because you don’t [Inaudible 45:39] you put the ball in
their court. Now he opened up their eyes and let them know, everybody need—
just help people. Don’t fight. You know we completely messed up. We need that
so he was trying to show the state that really was fighting “You need to tell me AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 34
what you gonna do, what’s gonna happen now?” It could happen to you just like
Christian and his state right there. His whole attitude changed when that
hurricane came through New Jersey. Am I lying?
W: No.
C: And also you got to be [inaudible 46:05] one that the White guy that the
presidential would and he loved to death and he got a friend down-
W: Spritzing.
C: Yeah they had a lot to it too. [Inaudible 46:15] that’s how I look at it. It keep me
going. Ain’t gotta get something [inaudible 46:23] but that’s how I look at it. A lot
of people say that you have to own and deal with what’s going on in America and
the thoughts that we had. The corruption here. So that’s why I think Jesus did
that to Oklahoma. He did that to New Jersey okay? It’s a power above that when
you don’t get it right he can’t get out of our favor. He sure to stay and make you
look at reality and say “Well hm ,maybe mm.” I really believe in that. That piece
of faith, I really truly believe in that. Like I said, he always said “When
vengeance is here, he ain’t lying” and I believe that.
W: Do you have any personal heroes or heroines and if so, who are they?
C: My mother was. My mother more because what she went through from just being
herself she showed me people can hate you for just being pretty, just hate you
for different things and my mother’s worked for me and the things that she’s
going through now and she still helping people. Need to stop and help herself
when she still got the heart for that and that part, that’s why I like my mom. You AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 35
know, that’s my hero to me, it’s my mother and certain people like- I’ll leave that
alone because everybody have good days and bad days.
W: What do you see as your goals? Your major goals for the rest of your life?
C: Well one of my goals is right now I’m back here and I wanna go ahead and
suffice for housing for the homeless, the disabled vets and stuff like that and like
listen, like I said my brother was the first child born here. All the people [inaudible
48:01] they need help now. Okay, so my goal is to come up with a process of
helping old people just in my neighborhood and reach out people that need
helping. I can’t tell you everything because that’s my goal that I’m gonna come
up with stuff and I can’t throw it out because it’s good and I ain’t trying—If I can
get my money for it, I’ll get it. It’s not patented yet but I know it’s something that’ll
really help the older people because we’re getting older, we living longer now. I’m
fifty-seven years old and I know I look to be ten years young and you gonna say
“I know this” so if everybody getting together like I’m doing, eventually if
something’s gonna happen where these people gonna stay [inaudible 48:31]. We
still need health care, we still need to take care of these people. That’s why I
wanna be on that end of it.
W: So another demographic issue, the rise of the aging baby boomer population.
C: They aging. The baby boomer population is at the age now they need help.
That’s what I’m saying. They old now and they need the same kind of help and
the baby boomer’s children, when we went to school they ain’t going to school
and trying to get the education and jobs that gonna take care—my thing was
[inaudible 48:58] these children don’t care about their parents or now, they don’t AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 36
care nothing. So that means they just gonna fall back on the government more.
That mean you need insurance more. Because you gotta take care of yourself
because the kids now they done now messed up. The way we grew up, my
mom and daddy, they could beat our butt to put you on the right page. These
children now whooping on their mama and they dads and stuff like that. They
don’t have the guidance or the things that we had. Everybody for theyself now.
Your mom or your daddy have to fend for theyself after they took care of y’all
coming up. They don’t care. And so my thing is we going back to the elder senior
citizen. We gotta look out for them.
W: Let’s talk about something that’s more relaxing. As you have entered this era of
your life, what kind of things do you do to relax? What are your enjoyment,
recreational activities?
C: Well I’m so glad to be home after forty-seven years. I’m just getting back into the
jogging. I like to play tennis and stuff and it’s some games that so small we’ve
been doing things, having a lot [inaudible 49:57] different places in Florida 20th
Highway. Just getting away. Weekend excursions, just hanging out with family.
I’m going to concerts and jacking free stuff like that. I love music. I like to travel
and get away.
W: You mentioned brothers and sisters with children, so as an aunt, do you spend a
lot of time with your family?
C: That’s why I don’t mention no kids. Let me tell you something, I got enough
nieces and nephews. Still paying for them like they my kids. Just because you
my aunite, they don’t care. No, money is money. You auntie, you blood. I need AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 37
some money. Okay and you know when you give it, don’t look for it to come
back.
W: Is it really like that?
C: It is like that. And you know what? As they get older, they still come to you. Just
like—they don’t go nowhere. What they gonna do, they come have to bring
more with them. That’s it and you take care of them too.
W: If you could make any change in your life, go back to a moment or a series of
decisions that you made, with the reflections that you have from where you are
now, could you identify one or two of the moments that you would change?
C: Yes, I’d be a doctor instead of a nurse. For sure, I miss my calling. I was the
nurse but then again when I was in the hospice certain things people’s missing
and little things I think I miss my calling. Should have been a doctor instead of a
nurse. So I think if segregation would have started before [19]55 maybe more like
in maybe [19]40 something, I wouldn’t have got caught. Because thing you see I
dropped a lot like listen, the way that I speak, during the time when segregation
come, that was my seventh, eighth and ninth grade year during the time when
you do your writing and all your stuff like that. But my thing, this fighting for
school, so I missed a whole lot. I picked up on things, I’m smart, but a lot of
things I missed out to because we couldn’t really focus on education—that’s
because we was fighting. Do you understand what I’m trying to say sir? Because
it’s very important. Certain decisions like [inaudible 51:51] start taking the test
now. That’s the time they start mowing you, you start getting your stuff. See AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 38
that’s the time we’s fighting. If you pay attention to the 1973 course of five years,
you’ll find out—just listen to the way we talk.
W: You got the basics but you missed the enrichments.
C: I like you. You all there with me. Okay, that’s exactly what it is. And a lot of us
missed it during that time. Not just Eastside, all of us, because we was fighting
through. That’s our era and we was supposed to be in school learning. We the
era of change. We couldn’t change and teach us to say anything when you had
to fight and you’re out of school for weeks out there in front of the school board
playing cards and having a good old time. But hell, that’s my type—I should have
been there—during that time. It’s just a section of it now. We connect everything
[inaudible 52:36] that’s why they missed out on it because during that time we
supposed to be writing.
W: With that being said and you’ve self-identified this area and other members of
your class have identified it too, what is the role of your generation? That
between the integration and de-segregation era, what role do you all play in it?
What are your overall aspirations? What do you have to do to make things right?
C: What we doing now. Class reunions and stuff like this. My thing is this, if I wanted
to be a teacher or something like that I done went back to school and focus just
on journalism or that area. I didn’t care; I was a nurse. I didn’t care about that.
Because I [inaudible 53:11] Florida A&M professors. He said “Jocelyn.” He said
“You are lousy in history.” I said, “I want to be lousy in history. First of all ,my job
is to keep us from getting to the history. Die. My job is to keep them from getting AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 39
over there. If I can teach you how to stay alive; if you dead, I can’t do nothing for
you sir.” [Laughter] [Conversation at the door].
W: What do you see yourself doing in ten years?
C: Having my own business and my sister working for me. Helping the disabled vets
and the homeless.
W: Jocelyn Mauricia Carter Ingram, on behalf of the Samuel Proctor Oral History
Program I want to thank you so much for this interview, the opportunity to sit with
you and take your reflections. I hope we’ll have chance to do another of these,
that this interview has given you cause for reflection and to think of other issues. I
also want to lift you up and edify you just to honor you for the role that you played
in helping me become the person I became because of the struggles and things
that your generation went through. And with those words I’m going to give you
our thanks and conclude the interview but I’d like to give you final privilege of any
comment or observation that you’d like to make, and when your words are
completed, this interview on June the 10th, 2013 will be concluded. Again with our
immense thanks, thank you very much.
C: And you’re welcome, but in ten years I would love to do another interview
because I liked to see what I’m doing myself in ten years. It was nice talking to
you too sir. Thank you!
[End of Interview]
Transcribed by: Sandra Romero, November 13, 2015
Audit-edited by: Anupa Kotipoyina, June 15, 2018 AAHP 309; Ingram; Page 40
Final edit by: Ryan Morini, February 23, 2019