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THE FIRSTTHE SECOND MEETING MEETING OF THE OF THE FIFTH FIRST SESSION SESSION OF THEOF ELEVENTH THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT PARLIAMENT WEDNESDAYTUESDAYTHURSDAY 13 0705 NOVEMBER NOVEMBERMARCH 2020 2018 2018

ENGLISH VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. 192196

DISCLAIMER Unofficial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an unofficial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The final edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. ( East)

Clerk of the National Assembly -- Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly -- Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel -- Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) -- Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. --President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) --Vice President -Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. ( South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (-) --Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) --Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) --Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security -Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) --Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. () --Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services -Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. () - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. ( Bonnington North) --Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. () --Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) --Minister of Basic Education -Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr. D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology -Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. () - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) --Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry -Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) --Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

-Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development -Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. ( -Maunatlala) - Development -Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) --Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (-) --Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (-Manyana) --Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry -Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. ( East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) --Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY ( Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) - Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. -Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata- Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. - Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of Opposition) Maun West Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. (Opposition Whip) Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. K. C. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT THURSDAY 05 MARCH, 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S) SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENT...... 1

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 1-8

TABLING OF PAPER Mid-Term Review of National Development Plan 11...... 8

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Appropriation (2020/2021) Bill, 2020 (No. 2 of 2020) Organisation 1800- Ministry of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Resumed Debate...... 9-35 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Thursday 5th March, 2020 MR P. P. P. MOATLHODI (TONOTA): asked the Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. Services if he is aware that a new loop road connecting (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) Mandunyane, Shashe Mooke, Borolong, Chadibe and Mathangwane will soon be constructed and if so; P R A Y E R S whether he will consider allocating a plot along this road for establishing a Central Transport Organisation fuel * * * * point or a privately owned petrol station.

SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENT MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Honourable Members, good afternoon! We have visitors, Mr Speaker, I am aware that there is a road construction one group of students and teachers from Kgabophuti project connecting the villages of Mandunyane, Shashe Primary School from Moshupa, in Honourable Gare’s Mooke, Borolong, Chadibe and Mathangwane. The Constituency, Moshupa-Manyana. They are here, this Ministry of Transport and Communications is best suited side. We also have young others from Stepping Stones to decide on the need for a fuel point and in that instance International from Mochudi in Honourable Mabuse when the need is established, my ministry will facilitate Pule’s Constituency. land allocation accordingly. For a privately owned petrol station, my ministry has not yet made a Development HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... Plan for the area which will guide the different land uses. Once the plan is done, business plots should be MR SPEAKER: These are our visitors Honourable advertised prior to allocation. I thank you Mr Speaker. Members. May we start our today’s business with questions. PROGRESS ON THE YOUTH DEVELOPMENT FUND QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER MR M. S. MOLEBATSI (MMADINARE): asked the UPDATE ON LAND APPLICATIONS RECEIVED Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture IN PALAPYE Development to state: MR O. RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): asked the Minister (i) the total amount disbursed by Government towards of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services to Youth Development Fund (YDF) for the past three update this Honourable House on: financial years; (i) the total number of land applications received in (ii) the total amount disbursed to the ministry during Palapye according to land use; the said period; (ii) pending applications after site visit according to (iii) the amount unspent during the above mentioned land use; period; (iii) targets reached against planned land allocation, (iv) the number of jobs created during the above dispute resolutions, issuing of leases and mentioned period; certificates; and (v) the total repayment amount owed to Government/ (iv) challenges of the Palapye Sub-Landboard, if any. YDF since inception of YDF; MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi! (vi) the total amount recouped by the ministry since MR RAMOGAPI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I will inception of YDF; forgive him. (vii) the number of youth from Mmadinare Constituency Later Date. that have benefitted from YDF since inception; and

PLOT ALLOCATION FOR A CENTRAL (viii) why no disbursements have been made to the TRANSPORT ORGANISATION FUEL POINT youth this financial year.

Hansard No 196 1 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF YOUTH Hundred and Sixty-Six Thousand, One Hundred EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE and Twenty-Eight Pula and Forty-Four Thebe DEVELOPMENT (MR BILLY): Mr Speaker, good (P25, 466,128.44) as loan repayment from the afternoon. beneficiaries.

(i) For the past three financial years; 2016/2017, (vii) In the Mmadinare Constituency, 160 youth have 2017/2018 and 2018/2019, Government has benefited from the YDF and 16 applicants have disbursed a total amount of Three Hundred and been approved in the financial year 2019/2020. Sixty Million Pula (P360, 000,000) as a budget, towards the Youth Development Fund (YDF), and (viii) Mr Speaker, this financial year, my ministry has out of this budget a total of Three Hundred and to date approved 948 applicants and funded 505 Forty-One Million, Five Hundred and Twenty- of the approved applications. The processing Three Thousand Nine Hundred and Sixty-Four and funding of the proposals is still ongoing Pula and Forty Thebe (P341, 523,964.40) was because this financial year, my ministry received disbursed towards approved projects. a high number of applicants from young people. The process of disbursement of funds is also (ii) For the same period, my ministry disbursed a currently affected by the Government Accounting total amount of Three Hundred and Twenty- and Budgeting System (GABS), as you know One Million, Three Hundred and Seventy-Three our GABS is always on and off. Thank you Mr Thousand, Two Hundred and Seventy Pula and Speaker. Forty-One Thebe (P321,373,270.41) towards funding approved YDF projects, while an amount MR MOLEBATSI: Supplementary Mr Speaker. of Twenty Million, One Hundred and Fifty Honourable Minister, you are saying that since the Thousand, Six Hundred and Ninety-Three Pula inception of this fund, you have handed out funds and Ninety-Eight Thebe (P20,150,693.98) was amounting to P360 million, but so far you have collected used to fund capacity building for beneficiaries P25 million. Is this fund worth continuing with looking and other special projects related to the fund. at the rate of recouping Government funds? (iii) The total amount of money that remained unspent MR BILLY: Honourable Member, you must appreciate for the financial years 2016/2017, 2017/2018 and that the collection is not that easy because you will find 2018/2019 amounts to Eighteen Million, Four Hundred and Seventy-Six Thousand, Thirty-Five that the majority of youth do not have the skills to run Pula and Sixty Thebe (P18,476,035.60). a businesse. Furthermore there are other challenges they face in running the business. So, it is my humble request (iv) Mr Speaker, over the last three financial years, my that we assist each other in the collection, but the fund ministry funded a total of 3 050 youth businesses, is relevant. in the process creating job opportunities di le 6,100 on average. MR BROOKS: Supplementary. No Mr Speaker, Honourable Minister you are now misleading us. (v) As the end of the 2017/2018 financial year, the Honourable Minister, are you saying we are giving total repayment amount owed to Government since inception of YDF stands at Three Hundred the youth funds which at the end of the day they fail to and Forty-One Million, Six Hundred and Eighty- account for, which is why they are unable to payback? Eight Thousand, Two Hundred and Thirty-Nine MR BILLY: Honourable Member, remember that this Pula and Fifty-Eight Thebe (P341.688,239.58). Fund is not only a fund, it has a grant, that is 50/50. They The loan arrears for the 2018/2019 financial year is still being verified. Mind you Mr Speaker, we are repay part of the funds and the other half is a grant, so in 2020 because the Honourable Member is asking you will find that the collection cannot be equal to the for arrears for 2018/2019. funds we allocate to them because the other part is a grant and the other part is a fund. (vi) Mr Speaker, since inception of the YDF in 2009 until the financial year 2018/2019, my ministry MR MOLEBATSI: Further supplementary. Honourable has been able to collect Twenty-Five Million, Four Minister, you fund them with P360 million and collect

2 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

P25 million, it is not even 10 per cent. The question is, HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of order, Mr do you not think it is better to take this fund to another Speaker. ministry who can administer it better than you? MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, I am one of the MR BILLY: I do not think so but it is one of the few Members of Parliament who can hear and speak considerations which can be made. What happens Sekalaka. I love it very much and have advised numerous at the moment is that, we are reviewing the Youth times that, that booth should be used to accommodate Development Fund (YDF) programme to find out what translators. Until you change the policy, I do not think we can do better to try and uplift the lives of the youth it will be proper for Honourable Members to depart and to improve the way we provide services to them. from speaking Setswana or English. If you allow that Mr Speaker then it should be clear and rule accordingly MR MOATLHODI: Supplementary. Thank you Mr because it is my wish that when I speak to Honourable Speaker. Honourable Minister, you have just alluded to Majaga, Honourable Letsholathebe, Honourable Billy the fact that the other part of that funding is not a grant; or the Right Honourable Speaker, I use Sekalaka. Until rightly so. Are you aware that these are public funds we amend the Standing Orders, I request that you make that need to be accounted for, Thebe for Thebe, Pula for a ruling because it will be very unfair for Honourable Pula? If you fail, what do you think we should think of Hikuama not to speak in his mother tongue. It will be very yourself as a Government? unfair for Honourable Saleshando not to communicate MR BILLY: Honourable Member, I do not really in Seyei, similarly, it will be very unfair for Honourable understand your question, because you are not actually Lucas not to speak in Sebirwa… asking me any question. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Member!

MR MOATLHODI: Let me say it in Ikalanga then. HONOURABLER MEMBER: You are out of order. Nlume wee, a tini a, mari edzedzi mari dze Puso, mari dze bathu. A te le mari dzi no phakisiwa. Ngweno no MR SPEAKER: No, he is not out of order; he is quite kumbula kuti ti tini ne kwe boikarabelo gugo na u in order. I thought they are teasing one another because kongwa? (, gentleman, these are government funds, they Honourable Moatlhodi knows the Standing Orders. If belong to the public; they are not handouts, so what do they are teasing one another, he wants to tell the Minister you want us to do with regards to your accountability that he seems not to understand so he wants to simplify because it seems like you are failing?) this thing for him in his mother tongue so that he can answer. It is quite out of order; there is no question about HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… that. It is out of order.

MR BILLY: We have been given an opportunity to UPGRADE OF -GOSHWE ROAD TO review the programme, and in reviewing it, we need BITUMEN your suggestions to say we should stop the grant, and remain with the fund only. DR N. TSHABANG (NKANGE): asked the Minister of Transport and Communications to update this MR HIKUAMA: On a point of order. I do not know Honourable House on when Government will upgrade whether it is in order Honourable Speaker, to allow the Tutume-Goshwe road to bitumen and what caused Honourable Moatlhodi to speak in the language we do not understand, which is also not permissible in this the delay. Parliament, I have been prohibited. Is that in order? MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Mr Speaker, Government does not have a plan to upgrade MR HIKUAMA: Is that in order? If that is allowed then the Tutume-Goshwe road to bitumen standard. It is not I will follow suit. in the current development plan. However, a decision has been taken to improve it using block paving. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Palapye; Honourable Ramogapi. Procurement for the block paving was delayed due to the introduction of the Integrated Procurement Management HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you Mr Speaker. System (IPMS) by the Public Procurement and Asset I will hold for him. Disposal Board (PPADB).

Hansard No 196 3 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

When the Invitation to Tender (ITT) was submitted to Let me then talk about the downgrading that you talked Ministerial Tender Committee (MTC) for vetting, the about. No, it was not downgraded. Sometime at the Procuring Entity was asked rather to use the new system. time when His Honour the Vice President visited the Upon capturing the bill of quantities in the Integrated community, they made a request to him to build this road Management System (IMS), it was discovered that some and at the time, he indicated that it may be considered of the measurement units necessary for the tender had in the NDP 11 at the Mid-Term Review. Subsequent to not been created in the system. After a period of a month that, the Permanent Secretary (PS) in my ministry in or so the Procuring Entity (PE) decided to submit a 2018 visited the community again and informed them manual ITT, but again this was stopped when the IPMS that if the road was to be considered in the Mid-Term corrections were completed. Review, it will be considered with all other roads. So, it might not actually make it into the Mid-Term Review The vetting was completed and the tender floated in as one of the projects and that would happen in 2020, the IPMS. The evaluation was completed in December, as you know we are coming into the Mid-Term Review. and the MTC considered the submission in January. He then put it to the community that block paving could There were clarifications required and these have been actually be a way of addressing the construction of the submitted, and the MTC will consider the submissions road and the community agreed to it. So, there was an for adjudication at its next sitting. Construction is actual agreement; the community agreed. So, there was expected to start in April 2020. I thank you Mr Speaker. never an issue about downgrading the road Honourable DR TSHABANG: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Member. Speaker. Minister, every time we ask about the With respect to where we get the funds; this construction development of these roads in our constituency, you that we are using of block paving is from the Recurrent inform us that there is no plan. When do you plan to Budget, it is not from the Development Budget. The have a comprehensive plan for these roads, because… bitumen would have been taken from the Development HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)… Budget. I hope it answers you and I appreciate some of the comments that you are making. I am thankful DR TSHABANG: You were also once new so keep because some of the discussions we have on the side quiet. Another question is that, when you decided to help you. downgrade this road from bitumen status to paved road of 15 kilometres… DR TSHABANG: Further supplementary. Thank you HONOURABLE MEMBER: 15? Mr Speaker. I am asking whether you are sure that the community agreed because they told me that, that was DR TSHABANG: 15 Kilometres, yes. What policy the last resort? It was not change of mind that they do were you following? I know that in Botswana paving not want a bitumen road. It was just saying, since that roads should be within a small distance. 15 kilometres to us is just too much, especially that you cannot do like one failed, let me take whatever comes my way. So, more than 60 kilometres or 80 kilometres per an hour in are you now reducing the community to be beggars of paved roads, but you are talking about a distance of 15 some sort because that is a last resort? Is that what the kilometres. Again, where did you get the money that Government is reducing the community to? Thank you you are going to use to pave, such that you cannot access Honourable Speaker. that money to upgrade to bitumen status? Thank you. MR SEGOKGO: Thank you Honourable Member. No, MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND I have no intent of reducing any community to beggars; COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Thank it is not my design. I have actually no intent to do that. you Honourable Member. I actually appreciate some of Am I sure? You are relating what you have been told the questions that you have asked. Let me start with the first one. You are talking about a comprehensive plan right? I also have this is information. I think it would for these roads. Sir, planning and which roads will be be helpful maybe that you and I have the opportunity, constructed is in the National Development Plan (NDP), when you visit the community, I should also be there. but I am focused on the question that was before me and I know my availability sometimes is that not good, but it is specific to Tutume-Goshwe. So, I did not come with it will help so that I can put it across. I will be with my an answer about the comprehensive plans for the roads. officials.

4 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MR MAJAGA: Supplementary. Thank you Honourable raised by the public at the time. The results of the Speaker and Honourable Minister. Some of these audit have since established that there were no answers can make you cry in this Parliament, if you merits from the complaints raised. However, there were to know this road for Tutume-Goshwe. Honourable were certain administrative improvements that Minister, my question is, can you not revisit this project were recommended and indeed made which are and make a proper bitumen standard road for the Goshwe consistent with good governance. community or the Nkange people whereby you can even make it in stages; maybe taking five kilometres then (ii) Mr Speaker, the results of the forensic audit were the other financial year taking another five kilometres communicated to the Citizen Entrepreneurial instead of putting these bricks on that road? It would Development Agency (CEDA) Board of Directors not even work because of the terrain and the rain in that and Directorate on Corruption and Economic area. During the raining season, it would be like you Crime (DCEC). The CEDA Board of Directors have wasted money like the other ministry which was was tasked with addressing administrative issues talking about the wastage of money. Thank you. based in the report. The board has implemented the recommendations of the audit and continue to MR SEGOKGO: Thank you Honourable Member. monitor the issues raised in the report to be of sure Can I reconsider it? I think the answer to that, I really non-occurrence. do not have a clear-cut answer to you in the sense that we could stop this invitation to Tender (ITT). I cannot Mr Speaker, regarding the issues reported to DCEC, guarantee to you that it would make it into the National the Directorate investigated the allegations raised to Development Plan. So, I am not even able to tell when conclusion. As a result, the DCEC recommended that the road will be constructed. Sorry, I keep being tempted CEDA should put in place policies for whistleblowing to face to you and I face away from the microphone, but and corruption prevention. The DCEC seconded an it is all very possible; it might be useful for me when the officer to CEDA in January 2013 for a period of three opportunity arise that I have an opportunity to meet with months to assist in implementing the recommendations the community and we discuss the way forward so that of the audit report. The scope of the work of the seconded it includes what they desire. I thank you. officer was as follows:

RESULTS OF THE FORENSIC AUDIT • setting-up a corruption prevention policy AT CITIZEN ENTREPRENEURIAL • setting-up structures within CEDA to educate staff DEVELOPMENT AGENCY (CEDA) regarding conduct association and perception that maybe created by such conduct MR C. GREEFF (GABORONE BONNINGTON SOUTH): asked the Minister of Investment, Trade and • reviewing CEDA processes and conducting needs Industry: analysis to address the ever changing business environment to prevent fraud, forgeries and related (i) to state if a forensic audit was conducted at Citizen criminalities that maybe executed by either the Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) public and/or CEDA staff. He was also charged covering the years 2003 up to 2018; and if so, with assisting the office the Chief Executive Officer to state if the results of such audit can be made (CEO) and the Board of Directors to investigate any public, and if not why not; suspicious activities whether reported or not and refer same to relevant authorities. (ii) whether a fresh audit will be conducted at CEDA and that the results be made public. • to also carry out audits of staff and disseminates such to relevant statutory authorities. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR GARE): Good Mr Speaker, the agency continues to work closely afternoon Mr Speaker. with the Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) to ensure strict compliance to the (i) Mr Speaker, during the period mentioned, a implemented policies and procedures. This has forensic audit was conducted in January 2012. hitherto no allegation of suspicious occurrences that The aim of the audit was to establish whether will necessitate consideration for a fresh forensic there was any merit to the complaints that were audit.

Hansard No 196 5 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Mr Speaker, forensic audits are special audits which HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible)… are undertaken to uncover or confirm various types of illegal activities. Further, they are conducted instead of MR GARE: No, listen. You cannot teach me audit. regular audit in the case information gathered would HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible)… be used in a court of law. Since completion of the 2012 forensic audit, there has not been any incident that MR GARE: It does not matter. What I am telling you necessitated an audit of that kind to be carried out in is that, forensic audit is done for purposes of two things; Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA). mediation or court cases. That is why when it came out, I thank you Mr Speaker. we took it to DCEC for further analysis, so that if there are suspicions of fraud, a court case should be lodged MR GREEFF: Minister, I want you to explain if it warrants that. It was not for the public to peruse it. something here, are you saying the board was involved Secondly like I explained, this forensic audit is done by in the audit that was done at CEDA? Secondly, I want to independent people. They are experts in their own rights. know if you can consider having another audit at CEDA So, we do not dictate to them where to look and where because I have information that I can submit before you not to look. They were free to do their job without any that CEDA Board is dealing underhandedly with CEDA. interference. Therefore, when their recommendations Therefore it is surprising for you to say the board is the came, we had no doubt because they did not find what one that reports to the Directorate of Corruption and you suspected as fraud. To further satisfy ourselves, we Economic Crime (DCEC). I have never seen a person forwarded it to DCEC to analyse the report, to find if reporting themself . Are you saying CEDA Board there is anything suspicious in it that might require … Members and top management should report themselves to DCEC? Clarify that point so that we can be able to HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible)… understand. MR GARE: I am saying forensic audit report is required MR GARE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you for two things; mediation and court cases. In this case, Honourable Member. The Board was not involved as there was no case and no mediation required. in saying, carrying out the audit. The recommendations were made to the board, which were done by the auditors LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR for implementation of recommendation. They were not SALESHANDO): On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. involved in carrying out the audit. I have answered you. You talked about many things but you did not respond I indicated the normal audit and the forensic audit are to the one central question. What is hindering you in different. The normal audit is done just for compliance the interest of openness and to exonerate CEDA, to and operational purposes. The forensic audit is carried release that report to the public? As to what purpose it out as and when there are suspicious actions of fraud was serving,that is irrelevant. Why can you not release or forgery. For now, where we are, with the controls it to avoid issues such as the one raised by Honourable implemented after audit, there is nothing that has Greeff where he says, they will now have to request for happened that would cause us to want to do another the second audit? forensic audit. MR GARE: By the time this report came out, there was MR SALESHANDO: Further supplementary. Minister, nothing that was forcing us to release it but we were I want you to explain why you cannot release the satisfied with what we wanted it for. There was nothing findings of the forensic audit which you say didnot forcing me to release it. Thank you. reveal any fraud. Now you are creating suspicions that you are hiding something and therefore another audit is MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, the question is necessary. Since this will not be the first time a parastatal quite clear; are you in a position to release that report to forensic audit ends up being released, what is hindering exonerate CEDA? That is the question. Maybe you have you in the case of CEDA from sharing this audit so that reasons why it cannot be released. They are not saying CEDA can also be cleared that no corruption has been there is anything forcing you. The question is why can found in this audit. you not release it to exonerate CEDA? That is the only question. MR GARE: Every company has its own way of running things. That is the first point. Secondly, audit as far as I MR GARE: I believe that it is something that I can am concerned most of the time is done for management reconsider when I am at the ministry so that I can release purposes. it. I thank you Mr Speaker.

6 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

OPEN HEART SURGERY IN BOTSWANA

MR D. TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness to apprise this Honourable House on the open-heart surgery in Botswana and to state:

(i) how many patients have had open heart surgery in Botswana for the past 10 years;

(ii) of the operated patients, how many had successful operations and how many were unsuccessful in the last 10 years;

(iii) the total cost of these operations on a yearly basis for the past 10 years;

(iv) how many patients were able to have a successful heart replacements surgery and the number of those who were unsuccessful in the last 10 years;

(v) the challenges associated with this special treatment; and

(vi) the ministry’s plans in relation to establishment of an “Organ Bank”, heart replacement facilities or any policy on heart related illnesses.

Later Date.

UPDATE ON LAND APPLICATIONS RECEIVED IN PALAPYE

MR O. RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): asked the Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services to update this Honourable House on:

(i) the total number of land applications received in Palapye according to land use;

(ii) pending applications after site visit according to land use;

(iii) targets reached against planned land allocation, dispute resolutions, issuing of leases and certificates; and

(iv) challenges of the Palapye Sub-Land Board, if any.

MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Mr Speaker:

The total number of applications received at Palapye Sub Land Board from January 2006 to November 2018 is as follows:

(a) Residential - 17,960;

(b) Arable land - 278; and

(c) No Common Law applications have been received since they are advertised and they are not applied for.

The pending applications for different land uses are as follows:

(a) Residential is 14,645;

(b) Arable land is 278. However, the Sub Land Board mapped a total of 107 arable land parcels and they are expecting to be allocating by April 2020; and

(c) In terms of the applications for Common Law we do not keep a waiting list for Common Law. However, a total of 195 Common Law plots were advertised in December 2019 and are expected to be allocated by April 2020. The list of the advertised plots is as follows:

• Industrial plots = 138

Hansard No 196 7 Thursday 5th March, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

• Commercial plots = 15

• Civic & Community = 9

• Mixed use plots = 12

• Multi residential = 20

• Open Space = 1

Mr Speaker, the target reached by Sub Land Board is as follows:

PLANNED ALLOCATIONS DISPUTE COMMON LAW CUSTOMARY GRANT RESOLUTIONS ISSUED (2018 to CERTIFICATES (Residential) date) Sub Land ISSUED (2019) (2019-2020) Board Sub Land Board Sub Land Board Sub Land Board Target 2019/2020: Total: 42 Target: 24 Target: 2,900 2,900 Resolved: 21 Actual: 24 Actual collected: 1248 Actual Target – Palapye – 2400 Ongoing: 21 Achievement: 100 Pending collection: Actual allocated – Palapye: 2558 per cent. plots by Dec 2019. 50 per cent 1310. achievement against Pending allocations -Palapye: 757 target of 100 per cent. plots to be allocated by Feb 2020.

(i) Mr Speaker, Palapye Sub Land Board like other sub land boards, has challenges of readily available land. The village is surrounded by arable land and people are reluctant to release their property. That notwithstanding, the process of availing land goes through intensive procedures of land acquisition, planning and servicing. This is a very expensive process and due to limited resources, the Government is not able to complete it in all villages because of other competing national needs in the economy.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR RAMOGAPI: Supplementary. Really Honourable Minister, when looking at the statistics of land applications received and those that have been allocated, are you satisfied with the many numbers which amount to 17000?

MR MZWINILA: I am not satisfied because it means that there are many people who are on the waiting listing and have not been allocated serviced land. However, the issue of serviced land depends on the budget availed to us as the ministry as we have to do designs, layouts, strategic environmental assessment, geo-technology investigations and then service the land in terms of water, electricity, storm water drainage and roads. In short, if we had more money, we would be able to service more plots. I thank you Mr Speaker. TABLING OF PAPER

The following paper was tabled:

MID-TERM REVIEW OF NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN 11

(Minister of Finance and Economic Development)

ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE

8 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 ORGANISATION 1800 – MINISTRY OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate)

(CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) (Inaudible)… up to Sepako and Manxotai, it is just a water crisis. Let us address this situation Honourable APPROPRIATION (2020/2021) BILL, Minister, I know that there can be something that can 2020 (NO. 2 OF 2020) assist Batswana.

ORGANISATION 1800 – MINISTRY OF Land crisis: when it comes to allocation of state land LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND there, from the area at Sepako, Sehubasanaga; people SANITATION SERVICES have no land at Sepako. Villages have grown; up to (Resumed Debate) Manxotai, Maposa, when it comes to Nata, former President; Mr Mogae, Ndelu and Maele left that issue MR CHAIRPERSON (MR SKELEMANI): Order! unresolved, today you are here, I really do not know Order! Honourable Members, it is important for you to who is going to resolve it. That constituency is really read the document that you were given by Honourable a problem, people are just fed up. These issues keep Dr Matsheka, because he is going to come to you again on pending, they are no longer allocated land because and ask you to analyse and pass it. When the House they are in a state land, for them to be allocated only a adjourned yesterday, Honourable Majaga was on the piece of land to survive, it is impossible despite them floor and was left with 5 minutes and 2 seconds. complaining about floods and poor roads, they cannot cope anymore. Now I have tried, I just realise that I will MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr end up fainting in this Parliament, and die while I am Chairperson. Yesterday I was explaining how we can standing. assist the Honourable Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services to address his problems, The last issue is that you were once a resident of Sowa and I will continue Mr Chairperson. town. If it is not possible, allocate land to pensioners to invest in Sowa. There is a person who is dreaming to One of the issues that is a concern in my constituency have a plot in town; when they just hear that they have is shortage of water; the whole Constituency of Nata- been allocated a plot in town, they will be the happiest Gweta does not have water. Mosetse dam has just person. There are all kinds of tourism opportunities; The vanished we do not know who or what caused its Great Makgadikgadi, some can make holiday homes disappearance, because there is no one who wants there, that town is not going to become a ghost town like to take the responsibility of whether or not it will be the likes of Selebi Phikwe, which produce diamonds and built. What is happening right now is that, as I am copper, it is going to be there for many years to come, it speaking right now, residents of a village like Mosetse is not one to have a limit of 20, 30 years. The Sowa town have five days without drinking water. They are fed has life, the problem is that people are not allocated up Mr Chairperson, I do not know if there is anyone plots, but there is land available. Honourable Minister, who will get through to them because when we were you were a resident of the town at some point, just do with Honourable Minister, they said that they are not something, you can even ask for a supplementary to go considered as people, people are here where all the pipes and allocate people plots, so that we can vouch that and dams are connected, whereas they are expected when Honourable Mzwinila was Honourable Minister, to drink borehole water which is unhealthy. This is an he did something for Sowa town. Mr Chairperson, I was issue that is there; it is in the public domain, it cannot saying, if we do not pay attention to these issues, we are be hidden anymore. Honourable Minister, let us leave going to be in trouble even though land is there we have boreholes of Well Fields, and we go and collect to do justice for Batswana. I stated yesterday that I am water from Mathangwane and connect it there. We will going to support this Ministry so that it can be allocated do it in stages because we are used to that problem, we funds for land servicing. I am going to support it with will not say it took long. If that can be done, we will everything I have. Let us make sure that Directors, be happy. In Dukwi quarantine, water from Sowa Town Permanent Secretary (PS) and everyone who has been to Nata is a crisis; people cannot manage it anymore, given the responsibility takes action. they drive around 180 kilometres to Francistown to When Budget session commenced recently, I said that fetch water, and they no longer enjoy the town, now everyone who is involved, in this five-year period, I those people, we do not know! We differ in opinions... want them to work. I am going to continue saying that.

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Even those who will be nominated to be land board not been allocated to people even up to now, They said members, they should be nominated by you Minister, that plots are still being allocated to people who are in not PSs who protects office interests. Thank you. the 1993 waiting list. There is land in Mogoditshane but people are not being allocated plots, look into to that MR MOTAOSANE (THAMAGA-KUMAKWANE): issue. Thank you Mr Chairperson for giving me this opportunity. I applaud the Minister and also show my Maybe I should caution you, I am concerned about utmost support to his Budget proposal. the boards. Increase the allowances for these people, they will not stop stealing if their salaries are not My only concern is that, I have realised that this minimal satisfactory even though they handle a commodity budget will not allow him to achieve his plans, as his like land, obviously they do not have it hence they get presentation has indicated the innovations he has come envious . They steal because they are not getting good up with to try and address the challenges that we are allowances; review them. I was very ashamed when I facing. The issue of water is enormous . Members of heard how much the chairperson of the sub land board Parliament sometimes raise their voices when debating gets as an allowance. This does not help the situation about water issues but they do not do that intentionally, because you will find that most land board members they are not undermining you. They do not mean that are corrupt. We have heard that they allocate plots at you are not doing your job or that they do not see your night. The situation is worse at Thamaga, Kumakwane efforts. Firstly, let me thank you for the connection is also one of the prime areas closer to the city, so this of water at Thamaga after a very, very long time. We is where these things take place. Minister, when you drink the water and it is fine. We drink the same water consider land board members, you should also increase that is being consumed by other people and we will their allowances. For example, even if you look at the buy electric appliances like kettles, irons and geysers. Sub Land Board Secretary, you will find that his sub Minister, the only concern I have about this water is that district council counterpart is on E scale while he is on it is just purely administrative, there is water shortage at D1 scale. He is a land board CEO of that area so why Kumakwane. Kumakwane has long been connected in are these officers not given the same pack? So that he is the Greater Gaborone, from the pipeline at Diremogolo. aware of his responsibilities and does not worry about What I am noticing is that, it seems like your team is taking action and proper steps when someone has sold focusing on connecting water in Gabane. It seems like land. Mogoditshane is an example, we were co0ming Kumakwane people are at the mercy of whether Gabane up with ideas to compensate people in kind with land, has enough water, that is when they will get the little to help us. It is a disaster, it is a timing bomb on our remaining water. Look into that. I always thought that side, and it has exploded. We were just trying to assist it is because of the small tank, and I have now realised at Mogoditshane. I do not know if I will be spoiling the that it is not that, because the water is supplied through debate, but it has already happened. Land board officials the pipes, there is no storage. I request that this issue and other people who I cannot hide the fact that they be attended to urgently because the truth of the matter were busy running around saying land board should is that, Kumakwane people, especially those on the make amendments , it is evident that after we left hoping primary school side can stay for a whole month without that things will be run properly, these people together getting water from their pipes. with officers bought land which we said the government Minister, I commend you. I would also like to make a should go and buy and allocate to people. They are the request especially on the issue of land. Minister, land is ones who are buying it from people because when they there but we do not have land because of people who come with P200 000, an old woman will take it. They do steal it. There are certain people who take as much so knowing that out of that five hectares, they can make land as they wish, this issue should be looked into and 20 something plots, and will sell every undeveloped plot for P300 000. As Gaborone people, we will then buy it addressed. I want people who illegally allocate plots to because we want land, and he will make massive profits. themselves to be taken to be prosecuted and imprisoned. Minister, if you do not look into this issue, you will have This is one of the issues which delay your ministry from problems. If I can give you an example, when you get moving forward. You should make sure that land is to Mogoditshane area, there is land but those plots have allocated to people.

10 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 ORGANISATION 1800 – MINISTRY OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate)

Minister I have a request regarding piece of are not working out for us. Minister I support your land which has been taken by the government. There are budget proposal. The funds are little, you should request speculations that it has not been serviced. I request that, for a supplementary we will support you. Thank you. since the waiting lists are for Thamaga, Ramaphatle and MR LESASO (SHOSHONG): Thank you Mr Kumakwane, they should be allocated land at Gakgatla, Chairperson. I am happy that today you have pointed I can confirm that the waiting list for Thamaga will go me. down since some people have applied for both areas. People should be able to develop their land and the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… noise will go down. I wanted to ask you to go and MR LESASO: I humbly thank you. Mr Chairperson, assess only, and realize that the minimal land servicing let me start by saying Ministry of Land Management, of road construction in between plots is the only one Water and Sanitation Services with special emphasis that people need. Your Ministry has been dealing with on water and sanitation, there has been great efforts water distribution, maybe stand pipes could be erected regarding infrastructure which was installed in the so that people can be able to develop their plots. This is country. These are efforts worth praising. However my my request to you Minister. concern is that, although these infrastructure has been installed after such a long time they have never been Another issue which I wish you could look into renewed. thoroughly, is about board members who are appointed every three years and when their term ends, new ones The cause of water wastage in Botswana is water leakage. are appointed. It becomes an issue; when they are We heard the Minister talking about water shortage in supposed to deal with available cases, no one will be this country and that it is caused by leakage. If you take there to provide them with information about cases. villages like Kanye, which require 12 million litres per They complete their term and new ones come in, they day, 6 milliliters of that water leaks underground. If learn and also allocate themselves pieces of land because you look at the high costs incurred to supply Kanye they know that when the three year term elapses, they with water from Ntimbale o, Shashe or Dikgatlhong might not come back. Let me request you, I know that dams; to transmit water to Gaborone through expensive interviews were conducted recently, evaluate this. I also pipes which is then treated at , but it leaks know that people who properly provide services at your underground at Kanye, Ramotswa and other places then ministry are not loved by many people. These corrupt it is a problem. Minister these are the things you should ones, they do not want them, and they even harass them at look into and address. the Kgotla meetings. When land board members address My second concern is that Water Utilities Corporation meetings, they will be called all sorts of names, names (WUC), which has been given the responsibility to take that I cannot even say, words that cannot come out of care of water in Botswana has strengths and weaknesses. my mouth as Honourable Motaosane. Please assess this It does not get any profit from small villages yet it needs situation, watch these people and use your discretion those profits so that it can run. Minister ensure that the where necessary. An example, a typical one, we once water department is decentralised to the councils as you had an issue at Molepolole whereby the Chairperson once alluded. The Council should carry out all water was changed. He resigned after three months. You might administrations in small villages like Mokgenene and wonder what was wrong with that one? Ah! Sometimes Poloka. Residents in those villages are unable to access as politicians we need to stop this tendency of wanting water because WUC cannot assist them, the problem is to influence things at the land boards. If land board shortage of funds, provide such services there. informs you of the procedure and you still intend on The issue that we should address is that the reason reporting them and being selfish with the truth claiming there is water wastage is because WUC has standards that they are being corrupt that is wrong. Let us allow to supply using a certain pressure and the pipes installed the Minister to work with his officers more especially now are unable to handle that pressure, that is why I am Chairpersons of the land boards sir. Those people are saying let us consider refurbishing the infrastructure. important, you can count on them and you are sure that they do their job according to the book. I would be Minister, I also understand that people are experiencing happy if you can do that. As politicians sometimes we water shortage at Goodhope, Kanye and other areas but get involved in things which completely derail officers. currently there is water supply at Kanye. The problem If one officer refuses they are transferred. These things with water at Ramotswa and Sekhutlhane…

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… there were no pipes from North to Palapye. Currently there is water supply there and what can be done is to try MR LESASO: Sir? to conserve what we have so that in future we can pump it. That is my point. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… I must also say that North-South Carrier 2.2 must be MR LESASO: Yes! The problem cannot be addressed processed promptly as our lives have stopped because of by water from Masama as you have written there it in Constituencies Minister. If this pipe was installed, Minister. The problem of water supply from Kanye can it could be connecting water to areas like Dibete and only be treated at Mmamashia Treatment Plant, so it Tewane, because there is a certain area where it had should be quickly completed. Pipeline from Gaborone to provide water along the way as the water was being to Lobatse should also be completed. Lobatse Master purified so that people can be supplied. If you delay it Plan should be quickly completed. Minister, pipeline Minister, then it will delay people from improving their of North-South Carrier 2.2 should be completed. If you lives and having enough water. That is my advice to you. can rely on water from Masama then we are creating My main concern Minister is that, there are many cases problems for ourselves. You know very well that we are of projects which have lead to the suspension of the currently facing…there is a problem of environment we Mmamashia project and others. Try to find out where are always talking about nowadays right? We know that these issues are coming from and help us to address Gaborone was once dry, there was no water. If we use them. the underground water which is so important whereas we still have surface water in the dams, where are we DR TSHABANG (NKANGE): Thank you Mr going to get water if dams dry up? Besides trying to Chairperson for giving me this opportunity to respond conserve water at Masama, if we continue pumping to the Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services water, what is going to happen is that farmers at…Are budget, Committee of Supply. Honourable Minister, let me thank you for your presentation and also you listening to me Deputy Speaker? Your farmers at acknowledge your efforts to bring us water and provide Kgatleng Constituency, when this water is pumped, us with land and sanitation services. there is what is called drawdown; water will reduce. This will affect your farmers at Kgatleng, the boreholes I also thank you for the project of Ntimbale connection will dry up therefore they will be unable to provide their to Nkange Constituency to villages of Tutume Sub- livestock with water because water has been drawn on District which will commence construction as you a large capacity. I have many examples of wellfields promised this month, while still at it, may I request you which were destroyed by being over pumped at Kanye to at least state the date so that we can settle this matter including those at Sefhare, Tswapong Constituency. If once and for all. Tell us the commencement date so that there is currently enough supply of surface water then all Batswana wherever we are in Botswana, we can see we should avoid pumping underground water and use that indeed, it is not just a promise in the bush, it is a surface water. That is what I would like us to protect concrete project that is coming this year. So I urge you, ourselves from. in your response please, do not forget to state the date.

MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL Honourable Minister, also even if you have provided us DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (DR with the clean water that will come in 18 months, we DIKOLOTI): Clarification. You are in the right still have the challenges related to wellfield track my colleague. As you are alluding that there are especially with a lot of leakages caused by dilapidated wellfields which have been destroyed by over pumping, infrastructure, that has not been serviced for a very long be clear as to how you contributed to that or how you time. So please Honourable Minister and your team know that it is a wrong practice? Did you somehow play in Water Utilities, please attend to that. There are also a role in that? Thank you. issues of high water bills which Batswana are crying about. They are saying that some places go for a long HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… period of time without water but the amount of bills HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… does not correlate what Batswana consumed, that is not the plight of the residents of Nkange Constituency MR LESASO: No, Honourable Minister I am showing alone, it is a nationwide problem which I think you and him that by the time Kanye wellfields were pumped, your team will attend to.

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Also the issue of dilapidated infrastructure resulting in DR TSHABANG: There is no time. Moreover, there is low pressures which cause low water supply downstream an additional problem with SEA requirement, because of these water pipes. So please attend to those problems it comes from another department of Department of as well. That one was about water supply. Environmental Affairs (DEA). They charge landboard for doing this environmental assessment. So, it is We also want to acknowledge that you have accepted like one Government department is blocking another that there is a problem with land allocation in this Government department from providing services. So country. The waiting list of Batswana who are waiting I think really the Government should look at relaxing for land allocation across the country is just too big, 686 the payment that is required by SEA so that land can be 000 is not a small number. This issue is caused by some serviced, the environmental assessments can be done, of the problems such as lack of infilling the plots that we are not saying remove all of them, but SEA, we are within the build-up areas. We are saying they must agree that it is needed and also in modern times it is be utilised as quickly as possible and they should not a very good requirement but you need to suspend the be subjected to a lot of requirements that we see you issue of payments so that Batswana can be allocated are putting up because these spaces are already in build- plots. The waiting list of plots that we are talking about up areas, these spaces are already in areas that have is so frustrating. In my constituency, at Tutume alone electricity and water. So it is very easy to manage the 9,897, Changate 121, Dagwi 308, Maitengwe 2,176, spaces. Makuta 720, Matobo 507, Nkange 1,315, Nswazwi 722, Senete 659, Goshwe 299. We are talking about Allocation of such spaces will go a long way in reducing just one constituency in the excess of 17,000 waiting this long waiting list. Also Honourable Minister, I think list. I think we must declare this a crisis, and this crisis you have put a lot of technical requirements in terms must be attacked with all the zeal and the commitment of allocation of these plots especially in tribal land. that is needed by a Government that is calling itself a Your Revised Land Policy of 2019 says; first you find responsible Government of the people, to remove these a planning area, then make a layout, then you survey hurdles. By May or beginning of April, we should be the plots, then give what is known as Geotechnical allocating these plots. Thank you Mr Chairperson. Inspection or Services, then there is another requirement ya Strategic Environmental Assessment (SEA); I MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Dr Dikoloti, think this is an overload of requirements Honourable before you speak Honourable Minister, Honourable Minister. You need probably to look at it and revise these Members, it is quite evident that this is a department requirements. Sometimes I ask myself whether these are where everybody is interested. I thought, instead of requirements for just tribal land. All these Geotechnical getting 10 minutes, if we give ourselves seven minutes Services, SEA, surveying of plots and so forth and forth, each, we could go somewhere. I will then steal some I think this also has caused a lot of frustrations amongst time somewhere, I will not tell you where, but I have the indigenous Batswana especially, those who need tribal powers to steal some minutes to add to this department. land plots. The indigenous Batswana are suffering in rural areas. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Just five.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bakalaka, people of MR CHAIRPERSON: Five? your Constituency. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes. DR TSHABANG: No, Batswana who are all over this MR CHAIRPERSON: That is perfect. country not the privileged ones. I take it that these laws, are just too stringent for the indigenous people. So can MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL you please ease out. At least suspend some of them to DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY ease allocation of plots. Well, we understand that these (DR DIKOLOTI): Thank you Mr Chairperson for are very important requirements and maybe issues of recognising me. Thank you Honourable Minister for a Geotechnical Services should be suspended and SEA fluent presentation. Let me thank you that last year you should be considered. passed the land reform law which helped a lot of people to generate income with part of the land or ploughing HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of elucidation. fields they have. We appreciate that and Batswana

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appreciate that too. I want to thank you for mentioning his budget. As a Member of Parliament for Kgalagadi that Land Administration Procedures, Capacity and North, I appreciate that you made an arrangement that Systems (LAPCAS) will continue. We are grateful for part of our ploughing fields can be used for tourism as that system because when it started, you called and we are on the Trans-Kalahari Highway in Kang. handed it over to private surveyors. We saw the cropping up of surveyors companies then which created immense Minister, as you are aware that at Kgalagadi we have job opportunities. We appreciate that arrangement and it four boarding secondary schools; Matsha Senior is one of the goals of Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) Secondary School and three junior secondary schools, that we are going to try and ensure that if private sector power outage wreaks havoc. Minister, at least install is capable, then we transfer some of the duties to them. generators so that the students can attend classes because power outage can last two days and the students do not Continue with LAPCAS because at the Ministry of bath. That is my request to you Minister. Agriculture we are interested in it especially on water points and ploughing fields. We believe that if they can There has been a pending case before court. Minister be done, we can manage to link them with our Botswana there is no water at Hukuntsi, Lehututu, Lokgwabe and Animal Information and Traceability System (BAITS) Tshane. We only get water from Kang, through water so that we may increase registration of our holdings. bowsers, water is bowsed for a large number of people, Honourable Minister, follow up on that issue and make even for settlements, water is bowsed for them. Until sure that it is done this year because we are working hard when will water be bowsed for us? This is an outcry, if it at the ministry to generate opportunities for Batswana. were possible, I would cry because there is no water but since I am an elder I will behave. Honourable Minister, Our constituency is dying of thirst, it has been you have heard my cry on lack of water. several years with no water from taps. I am happy to note that from your budget, you want to increase the Moving on to plots. We have a waiting list at land board. channels of water. I strongly support you because even Minister, please urge your officers to allocate land to Mmathethe-Molapowabojang Constituency supports young people. We have young people who have long that arrangement. Start it with an arrangement where applied for plots. you said we will get water from Boatle and you will amend the master plan of Lobatse so that at the end we Let me move on to the next one since my time is may get water. It has been two months with no water limited. Kgalagadi North is a rural area, the people are from taps at Molapowabojang. At Digawana it is even complaining of high water bills from Water Utilities worse. I thank you Minister for including the expansion Corporation (WUC) though they are not provided with of water channels in your budget that can take water to water. Why can we not be returned to councils because Mmathethe-Molapowabojang Constituency. we were paying water bills of P100 but right now our Honourable Minister, I want to appreciate that after bills can be P1500.00 yet we go for a long time without a very long time, plots were allocated at Digawana water? There is no water from taps. Since water is and Metlobo. Please consider Molapowabojang also pumped at night, we are now aware of the time and because it has been a while. We were long told that places where it will be available. This is wrong. Please land was found at Motlhwatshe, it will be serviced for let the case before court be settled. Thank you. allocation. We are now many, you will note that most MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND of the people from Lobatse apply for land at Digawana COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Thank and Molapowabojang and that contributes to shortage you Mr Chairperson. I suspect that I will keep on of land to build. Consider this matter and act on it, we making the mistake of saying Mr Speaker. I stand here are in trouble. They have been asking when they will be Honourable members to support Honourable Minister allocated plots. Minister, I believe if you can work on of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services those, more especially the water project so that we can on his budget request. First of all we have to realise get water, create jobs, we would be grateful. Thank you the importance of his Ministry and the job he does. He Minister. makes sure that Batswana get accommodation, water; MS MONNAKGOTLA (KGALAGADI NORTH): some of the things that are basic needs to the lives of Thank you Mr Chairperson. I rise to support the Minister Batswana. I congratulate him on all that his Ministry has of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services on already managed to do.

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When I focus mainly on land and its uses; I am from a MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Thank you Mr constituency that has shortage of land and while it has Chairperson. I think I will take less than five minutes shortage of land, we have many applications. Let me say because I have very few points that I would like to bring to Honourable Minister that in some of the ideas that up to the Minister. At Paragraph 39, you state that the you might use, look into the way we build, the growth implementation of water supply and waste water project of Gaborone should be in a way that does not require has commenced in Maun following the legal challenges. more land. We should try to build multi storey buildings I would like you to explain further because to the best and look into how we can densify Gaborone because of my knowledge, the information I have is that there the applications that come to areas like Tlokweng and is an interdict. There is an order of the court not to neighbouring areas, is caused by shortage experienced proceed with this project. It is possible that there has by employees in Gaborone. been an out of court settlement. If there is, I hope you can be very clear about it because this is a big issue for Honourable Minister, I also know that the money the residents of Maun. As you know, last year before you have requested cannot allow you to service land elections, there was funfair when you arrived close to according to all our demands. My request on that elections to announce that following the pleas of the one Honourable is that, maybe you can consider us, residents to His Excellency the President, he has sent especially at Tlokweng because we cannot allocate land you to expeditiously make sure that there is water. even though it is not enough the reason being that at Immediately after that, your contractors were not to be times it is not serviced so that resources can be available seen anywhere in Maun and as we speak, there is no on that land. sign of anything having started. Please, give us more The other thing that I wished to talk about Honourable information as to whether indeed there has now been a Minister is to congratulate you on the technology that conclusion to the legal challenges and that the project you talked about of Land Administration Procedures, has indeed commenced. Capacity and Systems Programme (LAPCAS) because it can help us to acquire information on who owns The second one is with regard to land, particularly land and where in the country so that we can confirm in tourism concession areas. Again, there has been a better allocation of land. I believe that can assist you number of promises in speeches made by His Excellency as you have already shown that you are in a process whether it was the Inauguration Address, the State of of confirming that the long waiting lists are reduced the Nation (SONA), in fact, both SONAs that he has because some people who are in those lists are those that presented so far but there is too much uncertainty. did not have the right to have applied for land. I believe When you talk to the land authorities in Maun, no one that this technology can assist us Honourable. knows how this is going to be rolled out. There is talk of some guidelines having been formulated and as the Time is not on my side so let me rush into the issue area Member of Parliament (MP), I have moved from of water. Regarding water Honourable Minister, I wish pillar to post; no one wants to share those guidelines. to inform you that I agree with the proposal that at the This lack of clarity and certainty in terms of what needs moment looks at where we can get water and how we to happen for those who may be interested to venture can distribute it. I congratulate you on all the issues you into these new concession areas, is not helpful because have put before us. One of the most important things this is a very highly capital intensive undertaking. Short you mentioned is that we are losing water in your notices of where the opportunities lie will not help the distribution network. I assure you and I will support you very Batswana you want to assist. It is the only very especially if you can focus on conserving water in your well-off who do not need any Government assistance distribution network. The technology that you might who will take advantage of such offers at short notice. need, we will talk about it, I will really support you on it. So, there is need to come out with information. It has been more than a year since we have been talking about The other issue is underground salty water which I getting citizens to participate at a higher level in the request that we should try to find the technology that tourism sector. Mr Chairperson, those were the only purifies this water by removing these salts so that it can two issues I would like the Minister to respond to. be given to people because I now realise that there is nowhere you can find a place for a dam as there are MR MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): Thank proposals to find water at places like Lesotho or even you Mr Chairperson. Let me start by thanking you maybe at the ocean. Thank you. for the proposal that has been put before us, mostly

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let me thank Honourable Minister for giving land to points, you can see how people who are allocated plots agriculture at Serowe so that they can be able to do a along these pits can be able to fil them up so that the horticulture project. But the only request I can make is village can be tidy. that the treatment plant that treats water from sewages, maybe they should try to increase the plots as it seems I also thank him for giving us clarity on the Selebi like the sewage water is a lot more so that other people Phikwe-Serule Transfer Scheme, that they are going to can be assisted. take water from Letsibogo to Serule. We thank you for that, Serule-Gojwane community has long been longing Still on the issue of land, another point that maybe for this project, reasons being that the water that they we should consider when looking at our areas maybe were consuming was posing danger to them because those remote ones, areas like Majwanaadipitse where they are in an area which has uranium underground. when advertisements are made on business or industrial We are grateful for that project. Even at Paje and Tshimoyapula, we thank you for the tanks that you are plots, you will find that in areas like Majwanaadipitse, promising to take there. We thank you for that. We take Topisi and Gojwane, it seems like those people end up it that next time you will increase them. being disadvantaged, because those advertisements are meant for the whole country. These people want maybe MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND a place where they can carve chairs or sew shoes but SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr plots will end up being allocated people who are not Chairperson. I stand to support the Minister’s budget from the area. Maybe in time, we can think of having request. This ministry is faced with challenges. Minister, a certain percentage that is reserved in those villages, you have presented before us everything that you are so that we do not find that plots have been allocated to planning to do but when I look at Gabane-Mmankgodi Constituency, Minister, there is a settlement called outsiders, and they have nothing that can be allocated Fikeng; Fikeng is between Boatle and Mmankgodi to them. When that becomes the case, when Ministry and a water pipe passes there but Fikeng people have a of Investment, Trade and Industry tries to offer them shortage of water. You should consider erecting a stand support, it will find them not having places for operation. pipe for us so that we can also be like all Batswana who Maybe they can have targets that when there are ten have water. business plots at Topisi, Gojwane, Majwanaadipitse or Paje, maybe three or four can be saved for local people. Minister, plots; from Mmankgodi to Tloaneng up to By doing this, they will be doing something which was Gabane, we have abundant land which is not being used. Your ministry is always emphasising that it is once done at Tlokweng, whereby residential plots were going to do layout plans. I believe that land is there and conserved for Tlokweng people. I take it that it will be we can give it to you so that you make layout plans, very worthwhile to do that because sometimes people you should use some of the funds that you are given to from outside do not develop these plots and it causes buy a machine which does layout plans, so that we can problems in the area. This means that assistance is not be quick to allocated land to people. I will be delighted able to reach remote areas. These are some of the issues Minister, when you buy that machine, go and start at which have to be considered. Gabane-Mmankgodi, you will see others later. Thank you Mr Chairperson. The other issue which was raised was about in-fill, it is not an issue of in-fills only. When you take a village like MR MOLEBATSI (MMADINARE): Thank you Mr Serowe, there are burrow pits which were once used in Chairperson. Since there is no time, I will take one point the past, which are in the middle of the village. These at a time. Let me point out that just like other Honourable burrow pits are posing danger to people or those who Members, I am concerned about many court cases have been allocated plots surrounding those pits. They which are at this Ministry. There are many court cases should assess how plots which are allocated around and they are ruining the reputable name of our country burrow pits can be allocated to people. If they do that, Botswana. Last time I talked about …(Inaudible)… we will not come across situations whereby people who investors are aware of what is happening. What is the have been stealing pit sands; as some sometimes end up main cause of these court cases? They might be caused being covered by these sands and end up losing their by the fact that maybe tenders are not correctly worded; lives…Minister, I take it that if you can look into these they are not good or whether it is corruption. We have

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to investigate what is really happening at this Ministry. Selling land to foreigners, more especially tribal land Debswana Company has many big projects which are has to be stopped. It is not proper, they should only be worth billions, but you cannot hear that their project given lease. They should sign leases for a number of has stopped somewhere or that there are challenges years so that Batswana can have land. somewhere yet they are being done by Batswana and they do them exceptionally well. Maybe we should help Data compilation or record cleaning, Minister we want this Ministry, to look for consultants to check if things to go to our villages, villages like Dikgokong and are running smoothly because water is not reaching Lebala, there are people who have long been moved by Batswana as we expect it to. BCL mine, they were given certificates. We have been complaining about this issue for the longest time, they Honourable Members, land issues. I thank the Minister should be listened to, because they have long moved in for the Revised Land Policy of August 2019, change of 1972 but even up to date where they stay has not been land use is user friendly and we appreciate that Minister. legalised. Let us attend this matter fast, they are not able We are concerned about the waiting list for land to plough or do anything. They do not know the land use allocation which is still increasing rapidly. Minister, policy of that area. Thank you. since you are aware of this, do something about it. Since Land servicing has started using Public Private MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY (GABORONE Partnership (PPP), it is a brilliant initiative. Private CENTRAL): Thank you Mr Chairperson for giving me companies should help the government. this chance. Let me quickly take a moment, even though we have not been given ample time, I am delighted that Water; since I am from an area which has dams, let us His Excellency the President is here, to salute liberation practice dam dragging as Shashe so as to increase the caring capacity of our dams so that we can have plenty of movement, revolutionary liberation movement that water. Reticulation; water that is leaking underground, helped in the liberating of the Southern Africa Sub- as the fellow Honourable Member has just said that we Region, the mighty Botswana Democratic Party (BDP); purify water, and it all leaks underground, maybe we which turned 58 years a few days ago. As I have been should also use PPP, investors should intervene and help given the first chance since that time, I must salute it. the government. They should see how they can be paid or they can pay themselves for the amount of water they Mr Chairperson, we are grateful that the waiting list of have preserved from leaking underground. Minister, I land applicants in Botswana has been sieved from those appreciate the fact that you are following your idea to who genuinely do not have plots to be given first priority, ask for water from other countries, like the Orascom from 1.5 million to 686 000, it shows that over a million company at Lesotho, to negotiate with Lesotho and people were not eligible. Minister, let me applaud you South Africa to supply us with water. We need water, for that effort because the land issue is a huge concern. maybe we can even start irrigation farming. I am grateful for Selebi Phikwe-Serule Transfer Scheme, If I look at the plots you have allocated, I am concerned. it can be useful to us because it indicates that there is Two Hundred and Twenty-Five (225) in urban areas; going to be a pipe which will pass to Damuchojenaa and Mmadinare South at Mmadinare Senior Secondary which is not even enough for Gaborone Central, let School. Minister, I am grateful that after I cried out alone the entire country; Francistown, Selebi Phikwe for help about shortage of water at Mmadinare Senior and Palapye. Minister, let us do something about this, Secondary School, you have sent one private company 225 is just too low, we have housing and accommodation there and it has helped, there is water at Mmadinare. problems, people are paying large amounts of money Students bath. I applaud you for this Minister, you have because they have nowhere to go. Ten (10) commercial done a good job for us. plots; commercial is job creation, so if we only have ten There is the land allocation process which was not in the entire country, I do not know what one can say being done properly. It was illegal and it was being regarding it. It is very, very low. done by Botswana Tourism Organisation (BTO) and I want to commend you for giving 470 hectares to your ministry. Lodges and concessions which have been issued by BTO many years ago are not legal. Minister, investors, although it is not clear who you are referring that thing has to be corrected, we should abide by the to but at least it is evident that we are trying to create law in this country. jobs.

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Land Administration Procedures, Capacity and people seem to be forgotten. It was said that sewerage Systems (LAPCAS); it is necessary for a country like will be connected and it has been 20 years. Minister ours to know who owns land where, how, so I want to look into that thing. commend you in that system Minister, let us keep it going. LAPCAS can also help with cadastral taxation The fourth issue Mr Chairperson is that at my constituency, because there are many unused plots and we do not people are allocated plots in slums, at Extension 6 and get the necessary royalties that are due to Government, 11. I wonder if land board before allocating plots there, because we do not know who owns what. It is a good they did not think that the Government might incur huge one because it will also help us at Francistown and even amount of costs to compensate those people. in the City of Gaborone as we cannot expand because we are surrounded by farms which some of them we do The fifth issue Mr Chairperson is that churches want not know its owners and where they come from. I heard plots. We went around campaigning, asking for prayers you say that it goes to the Colonial Era, which is very from churches. Churches want plots Honourable important because there is a lot of land lost during the Minister but their challenge is that you make them pre-republic days. compete with businesses and bars. They request that churches should be placed in a different category I heard you talk about renewal; Participatory Slum because they do not have enough money. The sixth issue Upgrading Programme. I am very interested in that one sir, because in my constituency, there are a lot of is that there is unused land at Palapye. There was flood slum areas which I want us to develop. I see that you in 1985 or 1995 somewhere during that period and those have commenced the programme at Boikhutso Ward at plots are not used. Since those plots are available, they Francistown. I have Boikhutso in Gaborone, on the way request that churches can use them as they now serve as from the airport. Talking about Forbes 30 Under 30, if a criminals haven. you would have started that renewal in Boikhutso in The last issue is that Minister, we request that these Gaborone, that would have worked wonders. foreign direct investors should not be enticed by The water demand; 245 million cubic litres which is allocating them land, let us learn from the past. We once set to rise to 340 million cubic litres by 2035, versus had Hyundai, they were allocated funds and capital, what we have. It is concerning Minister and I really say after that they took our money and went to South Africa. that we must support you, and even increase the funds If foreign direct investors just like Special Economic because it shows that very quickly, what we have will Zones Authority (SEZA) are allocated land, they should not be enough. Thank you very much. be informed that it is a lease for a certain number of years, MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Thank you Mr if you leave it goes back to the Government. That will Chairperson. My points are very short, so I will quickly be a better solution for us rather than giving foreigners list them. The first issue Honourable Minister is that our land. Minister after you allocate some of these the funds you are allocated are not enough. If there investors land, they sell it. There is nothing prohibiting was enough funds, I would request that your funds be them it is their right. I am saying this because there is increased. The other issue is that we have a problem. Out another issue at Palapye, some people were allocated of the numbers you just indicated, it is clear that Palapye land quickly when it was still called Botswana Export residents want land. There are many applications; youth Development and Investment Authority (BEDIA) have no land. This is a concern Minister. saying they want to develop, they did not develop, they have sold it. That is wrong Minister, tighten your belt. The second issue Honourable Minister is that try to Thank you Mr Chairperson. monitor performance of landboards. There was once a Department of Performance for Land Boards in MR NKAWANA (SELEBI PHIKWE EAST): Thank Gaborone but it seems to be not operating nowadays. you Mr Chairperson. Let me also take this opportunity. You once held land boards awards. I will not be long and advocate for Selebi Phikwe There is a problem of sewerage at Palapye. There are residents. Minister, we are in trouble, we have an area areas which were overlooked when sewerage was called Lenyeletse. The residents of that area were connected, so they were left out ever since then. Those removed as there were incoming developments. To date

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they have not received the promised compensation. worth P40 million so that there is a certain level of stars Minister, I implore that you travel to Selebi Phikwe and which are needed by white people. Then these people ensure that Botshabelo residents in Lenyeletse area are are expected to take everything with them when they assisted. leave. My question is, if at all this 5-star hotel was attracting tourism, is it not possible to take them from We also experience challenges of water shortage. There these people through an agreement such that if someone is an area called Zezuru. You might recall that we are comes, they can start where the other one left instead poor at Selebi Phikwe, we need water connection in our of demolishing everything? Thank you Mr Chairperson. homes. It is no longer right that a person will be seen with a bucket going to draw water or children going MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Thank to school without bathing because there is no water you Mr Chairperson for giving me the opportunity to connected in the homes. Honourable Minister, kindly comment. Thank you for your presentation Minister. I look into this issue. stand here to appreciate your budget proposal and to say that we will surely support you. So, go and find out how In other issues I am like Honourable Ramogapi, there are you can spend the money that you got. many churches which assist us, which pray for people so allocate them plots so that they do not worship in their I want to address two issues but before then, I want to private homes. It is not good for people to disturb peace start by showing my concern as you are here with your which other people deserve at night, in the morning, budget proposal. The first page of the paper which you during weekends where they beat drums and sing. gave to us, on the issue of Development Fund, it shows that you only spent 53 per cent form it while you spent Another important issue is about concession areas 93 per cent on Recurrent. In my view and knowledge, Minister. We believe a time has come for Batswana to Recurrent drives Development. So, if we are going to use play a role in the Tourism Sector through concession Recurrent and leave Development, it means that we are areas. Batswana are currently invited to apply. If they using money for salaries and others while Development are successful, in the lease of the leasee, you will find fund which is supposed to be used on helping people, is that there is a clause which says, “anyone who finds that plot has the right of first refusal.” You will wonder, if left behind. You have to pay attention to this, we must it says that a person who has a right to that plot has the refrain from doing it this way because now key is on our right to refuse for it to be taken by the person who won performance even though we will be funding you in the the tender, is it important? Honourable Minister, assess manner that we will be doing hoping that you will use it. these things so that when a tender comes or when new Let these numbers correspond with each other instead of leases are given to people, this Clause must be taken out being like that. That troubles me. so that no one has the right of first refusal because he or Let me address the issue of land sir, we are troubled she is empowered by the Clause which talks about first by land. You gave us the statistics, after correcting and right of refusal. making sure that they are correct, you said that 6 087 of Still on that Mr Minister, our rich land is usually Batswana are still on the waiting list. This gives us close overpriced when it comes from the Government, to 30 per cent of Batswana in Botswana as a whole, especially for Batswana. Someone mentioned that that they do not have places where they can live. What developing that kind of land is capitally intensive, does it say if the situation is like this Minister? I am not Batswana do not have money. Even if you try to help arguing with you on these statistics, all I am saying is them, you will find lease rental is very high; before that this is bad. These numbers are very high compared you can develop it and when you run to get a loan from to our population. I urge you to speedup this thing, give Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), people land so that they do not become beggars as they you already owe P2 million because it is overpriced. are today. You will not even understand what those who were I also want you to address this point very seriously, pricing were looking at when they charged. people should permanently own land. Consider the The other issue is that, we have to assess the people who issue of ownership transfer because it really troubles we give these areas to because I think we are just being us. Some people get land only to sell it and join the too wasteful as a country. At times a person will get a waiting list which increase these numbers as a result. loan from CEDA, they get land and make developments So, pay attention to that. We get “The Advertiser” every

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Tuesday, as a nation. I urge you to take it, you will find some people took them to court and it takes time to about 5 pages saying that, “land is sold in such and implement them as a result. They hinder people from such a place.” There is a list of people who sell land getting water on time even though they do not use every week since it is issued out every week and you are money to get water. If someone fetches water from a giving us these numbers. Consider that thing and find distant area although they were supposed to get it easily, out how you can assist. that is why we say there is no value for money that a person used their resources and they end up suffering. Servicing of land; these numbers are growing, the population is outgrowing the allocation of the land. this We mentioned that we will introduce transformation makes me wonder, how many people will be in need of from middle income economy to a high income economy land in the near future? Minister, I urge you to come up and those can only be achieved if you have land. You with a plan through which you will reduce as well as explained that you are going to service land to improve make sure that this situation is resolved sir. land allocation. If you have land, it is easy to transform yourself because you will engage in agriculture and also I also talked about the issue of water. Thank you, you take part in tourism. It is a good move to have ploughing made great efforts to give the people of Molepolole land divided. If you want to use it for ploughing and some water. They received it but it is not enough. it is tourism, it should be easy so that the economy can be evident that some of the boreholes used either have low inclusive. It should include people in the rural areas amount of water or they are usually disconnected. This is so that we do not have rural to urban migration. It is not good therefore, speed up that process sir. Moreover, something that can help in preventing those instances. make sure that as you promised to draw water for us from the station of Gamononyane as you mentioned in I want to commend you for heeding the cries of people. your statement, let it not be a court case tomorrow when People were complaining that it is not possible for an you are supposed to award the tender. Minister, I urge individual to own one plot. Back then a couple shared you to start doing things accordingly so that this project one plot but you made it possible for an individual does not end up being stopped at the end of the day. We to have one state land plot and one tribal land plot. urge you to make sure that people get water as soon as it When we were going for elections, we explained that we are going to be a Government which depends on commences. That is all Mr Chairperson. consultation. Consultation and democracy go hand ASSISTANT MINISTER OF YOUTH in hand and we need to listen to people’s advice. You EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE heeded what the nation needs. DEVELOPMENT (MR BILLY): Thank you. let me Another thing Minister is that we need to improve the take this opportunity to thank you Mr Chairperson. waiting lists. If we do not improve them, we are going The request which the Minister of Water and Land to be confronted with situations where people are tabled before us, these are some of the things which we impoverished by rent because that individual cannot discussed before going for the elections in 2019. In our do anything without land. When you are renting, your manifesto, we explained that we will give people land, economy is affected and dependents are affected by we will improve land service as well as supply people these situations. I like your relevant request and I know and livestock with water. What we did as you have you will make an arrangement as a considerate Minister. explained, you mentioned that you will give people land You listened when people advised on land allocation. I and water in a certain way. I want you to clearly explain believe that even on that one, listen so that people can that point, that you will not back down from supplying have residential and commercial plots. people with water because you gave some timelines that you will give them land in a short period of time. Churches; Honourable Minister, I almost provoked people last time when I said our traditional churches are There are some points which hinder you from doing never allocated plots quickly. There are others which get your job properly, especially looking at the issue of plots in ways which are … awarding tenders or procuring plans or processes of supplying the nation with water. Public Procurement ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL and Asset Disposal Board (PPDAB) must be reviewed AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC so that it can empower you to supply water without any ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): hindrances. These projects are lagging behind because Thank you Mr Chairperson. I support the Minister of

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Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services in of those people, I have applied for a plot after finishing his request. Let me also put in my two cents and say, Form 5, up to now I have not been allocated a plot. I we have shortage of serviced land in Gaborone. This am told I am still on the waiting list. It is embarrassing contributes to high rentals which makes it seem as if as a mature married man to be landless because the people’s salaries are not enough. Tomorrow people pride of any man is in owning land. My salary is not will be advocating for salary increment and it becomes enough for me to buy a plot. We were still looking up to the Government’s burden to bear. If we can manage Government to help us. Minister, please look into this to address shortage of serviced land, people will not matter because there are areas in Mahalapye East where complain much. People’s salaries will be enough to pay plots can be allocated. People can be allocated plots rent. We understand that funds are not enough. The land at Shakwe, Taupye and Makwate. Minister, consider that is available is small, we can give it to private sector this matter and ensure that people are allocated plots. to develop and sell to people. When people have been There is nothing that one can do without land. If an allocated serviced land by Government, sometimes they individual has a plot, he or she can provide shelter for sell it because they are unable to develop it. If we give the children. It is embarrassing that up to now when it to private sector, they can build houses. We make an I am in Mahalapye, I stay at my mother’s place. It is agreement with them to understand that when they sell important that the Minister addresses this issue as soon a plot after developing, they should bear in mind that as possible because a man of 32 years such as myself it was allocated freely. That benefit should be enjoyed should not wake up from his mother’s house but be by Motswana. That will reduce the high cost of rent in allocated a plot to raise his children. That is all Minister. Gaborone and lack of accommodation and Batswana I believe you will … will not ask for salary increment. HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible)… I would also like to support you in your request to bring water to the southern part of this country. When MR BOKO: I am talking about serious matters. Thank Gaborone was designed in 1965/1966, it was never you Minister. thought it would have developed to this level. Gaborone MR MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): Thank you Dam with 144 million cubic litres of water is unable Mr Chairperson. Let me also take this opportunity to to sustain Gaborone. There is need to have water from the north to places without water so that tomorrow comment on issues of land and water. There is a lot of Gaborone does not turn into a ghost town due to lack water sited in Ghanzi North and Ghanzi South. Ghanzi of water. We need water also in Lobatse so that we can South constituents have made a request that as we are establish industries which require a lot of water. With arranging to channel water to Kgalagadi, we should those few words, I support your request Minister. exchange with something for development. When water goes to a hospital it should develop. That is what they MR BOKO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Thank you Mr are saying. Chairperson. I also rise to support the Minister in his request. I will not be long since most issues have been The second issue is that, we as the people of Ghanzi addressed. Firstly, there is shortage of water in my South area and Bakgalagadi, our believe is that we constituency. The constituents have asked me to tell you should continue to advocate for them on the issue of that in all the areas I represent, there are only two wards water shortage. The people of Kgalagadi especially which enjoy availability of water and those are Xhosa farmers; cattle or goats, they do not have water at all. 1 where I come from and Flowertown. Other areas are decrying lack of water, they only get it through bowsers. Their land does not have water, where there is water, When you go to Dovedale, you are going to find big you will find very salty water that cannot be consumed Jojo tanks which provide water for residents. They start by anything. So Honourable Minister, when in talks can queuing in the wee hours of the morning so that they can you determine where you can allocate them land. get water. Minister, you need to respond to this issue and Let me be brief. There is something you did when you address it because people have no water. were dealing with Land Administration Procedures Secondly, I have been sent to tell you about shortage of Capacity and Systems (LAPCAS). That time when you land in my constituency. Your people are crying that they were registering plots wanting a machine to go and have been on the waiting list for many years. I am one cheat during the elections…

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HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Laughter!) … that money that we will be giving you, we say those are straight-forward, they are what is needed by Batswana. MR MOTSAMAI: …you have long told people that There is no way Batswana can survive without water or you were going to issue them certificates, but you have land. Honourable we thank you for what you are doing. not given them the certificates. After realising that it was not possible to cheat during elections with the machine, I am from an area called Boteti East, there is a remote you boycotted everything. Let me remind you that you area called Mmea. Mmea is one of the villages that should go and give people certificates, so that they when they were started since it is a remote area, you can go and apply for loans like you were saying. Mr installed smaller pipes. You have long shown that you Chairperson, I am moving forward by talking about the want to remove them and install bigger ones. Now even issue that… the trees that are growing, end up bursting these pipes as they are thin Honourable. Can you address this issue, ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION and assist the people of Mmea with water. (MS MAKWINJA): Procedure. Thank you Mr Chairperson. I request the Honourable member to bring There is a village called Mmatshumo, it is also one of evidence on how we were going to cheat. the villages that its people have long been drinking salty water, and it makes their teeth to turn brown. You are HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Murmurs) … the one who went there, showing that you are building MR CHAIRPERSON: Continue Honourable Member. them a treatment plant. Now they keep on saying that the Honourable Minister once passed here. Honourable, MR MOTSAMAI: No, if you wanted evidence, I could address that issue, let the treatment plant be built. give it to you if you were a police officer. The villages of Mosu and Mokubilo also have salty HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Laughter!)… water, and you have also shown that you will do something on the line that distributes water in those MR MOTSAMAI: Honourable Minister, I request that villages. Let us speedily address this issue. Money from you go and assist my people, they cannot cope. There the World Bank, you have shown that you were going to is an issue of derelict land. This issue of derelict land do a project in . Now that is taking too long causes conflict among nations. I am requesting that you Honourable. The World Bank project, we are waiting deal with it to come to an end because derelict land is for it as people of Letlhakane. not developing. When you allocate a person land and The mine people called the people of Water Utilities they say, this derelict land belongs to us, having all the Corporation (WUC) at Letlhakane, and told them that evidence, just allocate them the land so that these issues they have plenty of water which they do not know come to an end, so that we can move on because the where they can take it. Now all that is needed is to build likes of Honourable Yandani, will not have derelict land a treatment plant that can purify water, so that it can be as land will be allocated and moving on to the next plots. supplied to the people of Letlhakane as drinking water. In the last issue, there are situations where people are This issue has long been presented to the WUC, those allocated land and then people are delayed because at Letlhakane have shown that there is a lot of water there is no water, electricity and roads there. Look into shortage. You will find that in Letlhakane, when there it Honourable Minister, and talk to your colleagues of is a power cut, the tanks that are available cannot meet Honourable Ministers, so that when you allocate plots the demand of the village. Honourable, let us look into in future, there will be roads, electricity…people should this issue. not be delayed because they have been given plots but there is no electricity. Thank you, that is all. When we get into issues of land Honourable; Letlhakane is experiencing a growth in population, there are ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND long waiting lists and we have a problem of squatter WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you Mr settlements. Some of these squatters are people from the Chairperson. Firstly let me say Honourable Minister Mr farms, what we call marginalized communities. Let us Mzwinila, I support you Honourable with the proposal try and consider them with affirmative action, so that you have put before us. In short, let me show that all that we can allocate them land. Most of them are people of you have put before us, everything you wish to do with Basarwa origin. Now they are growing in population

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since the introduction of Ipelegeng, the move from the water can be supplied in the right way at Molepolole, farms, and they squatter on the outskirts of the village, so that we no longer experience this widespread water and they end up being hired on Ipelegeng. There are shortage. I know that there is a problem regarding old so many squatters. Let us analyse these situations infrastructure and old water pipes at Molepolole. I am Honourable. Even squatter churches are so many in hopeful and I believe that you will be cautious of that Letlhakane. As you have shown that you have some point and that you will speed up the process the way we money that you are going to use to buy fields that are trust you to. nearer to villages, can you make Letlhakane a priority because since the closure of BCL and Karowe mines, The other point is about residential plots at Molepolole, you show that you are expanding, yet that is not the they have asked me to ask you to speed up the process, case. We have seen a large number of people moving to more especially at the farms which are near Molepolole Letlhakane. Now, this has shown us that there is going Minister. They are saying that you should negotiate with to be shortage of water and land. Honourable, let us farm owners so that they give you these fields, so that address these issues. we can expand the village.

A village like Makgaba since it was officially named a Minister, shortage of water here and there has blocked village, it takes a long time for people to be allocated developments, as you know that Molepolole is bigger land. I agree with the Government that plots should be than all the villages in Botswana. This situation shows allocated as soon as resources are made available. In that if these developments could be made at Molepolole, small villages, maybe we can use the basic thing where if we could have water, if we could allocate plots maybe a physical planner makes the lines, then land can quickly, the challenges of urban rural migration which be allocated or people can make a living. are seen at Gaborone can be reduced, investors will now go to Molepolole and we will be able to create jobs, our When we get into the last issue, the one concerning youth will have jobs. the members of land board, especially those at Central District; Gammangwato. Can that issue be looked in to? You know that we have a procedure whereby Botswana Those people have long been there, the things that they Housing Corporation (BHC) was supposed to go and are doing in issues of land allocation in central, I do not build houses at Molepolole, it was then delayed by think they are doing the right thing. Can you remove these issues. I believe that after everything settles, them from office this year, and bring on board new staff, after you sort everything out for us, Botswana Housing those who have been there, they will continue to make a Corporation (BHC) will go there and construct houses, mess of the land of the Gammangwato area. With those we will have sewage systems and everything will fall words, I support you Honourable. into place.

MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL My plea to you is that we should stand up for this issue. AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC The other thing which comes as a concern is a situation ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Let me whereby people unnecessarily sell plots. Minister, let us thank Mr Chairperson, for the time you have given come up with a solid plan to stop this because it will me. Let me thank you Honourable for your intelligence soon seem like you are not doing anything and that Honourable, for giving us five minutes. Thank you many people are still asking for plots even though it is Mr Chairperson. Honourable, I support Honourable not the case, those are people who sell plots and go and Minister’s proposal. As I support it, let me say that apply again. You are doing a good job. At Molepolole, really your Ministry is the lifeline of the people; water, we even believe that in the next two years, we will get land allocation and housing. For that Honourable, we everything that we are asking for, issues pertaining to support you. plots, water and other different issues which affect your Ministry. Let me not waste time, we have high hopes on I will be brief, I have only two points. We had a meeting you and the government of His Excellency the President on the 23rd of January at Molepolole. The people of (HE) Dr Masisi. Molepolole said they were thankful that you promised them, and they also believe that it is possible for water MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you Mr to be supplied to them in Molepolole. What I am only Chairperson. Minister, since I hear that you are very requesting is that we speed up that process, so that attentive, I believe that you will listen to our pleas at

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Ngami. No one can reject your Budget request because The other thing is standpipes. Our constituencies it is holding people’s lives. Your Ministry is managing have high poverty. When Water Utilities eliminates two things; water and land, which are necessities to standpipes, a lot of people cannot afford to connect people’s lives. water in their homes. You also know that the number of poor people is increasing. So, this means that they Minister, on the issue of water, we have a shortage cannot afford to pay water bills. We need to increase of water at Ngami Constituency, more especially at standpipes in these areas. and Etsha. The situation is horrible. Right now, they have resorted to buying water from boreholes and The last things is land Minister. Layout plans; people it is reddish in colour which poses danger to their health, have been in the waiting list for the longest time it does not meet the health standards. We wish that you without being allocated plots. The last plots which were can attend this matter quickly otherwise we are going to allocated was in 2009, but it is an issue of layout plans. perish when the situation comes to an end, people will Minister, these layout plans, since you a Minister who be sick because of this water. listens, when will it be completed so that people can be allocated plots? Thank you. I also believe that we also have a challenge of taking water to other areas like Etsha 8, the problem is that they ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION are un-gazetted settlements. I talked about this issue (MS MAKWINJA): Thank you Mr Chairperson. I with Minister Molale last time, that you should team stand to applaud the Minister for his presentation and up against these things because those people cannot go Budget request. Minister, you have done a good job. anywhere, they need all the developments there. What We have to appreciate, more especially at , we can do, your ministry and Honourable Molale’s villages and towns which are closer to Gaborone. There ministry should negotiate, integrate, because declaring was a directive that due to shortage of plots, those who new settlements will waste time. Integrate areas like have fields and farms should give them to the government, Etsha into Etsha 6, so that it does not become difficult to be compensated with plots so that land can be available allocate plots to these people so that those who are able to be allocated to the youth. Batswana immediately to connect pipes can do so and standpipes be connected loved that idea, which helped so that Gaborone can be for those who need them. That is one thing which can expanded. The expansion of Gaborone is still behind happen. Since I heard that you are a Minister who because plots have not been surveyed. Minister, as listens, I believe that you will listen and do something we go around the constituency, your people are saying which can help people. that this brilliant initiative should be expanded, more especially at Lentsweletau-Mmopane, because when On the other side of Ngami, Bodibeng, Bothatogong and you cross over to Galekgatshwane, , no. I admit that you tried by constructing a , Sasakwe, Lentsweletau and , there are plant at Semo, you have done a good job, it is better. The farms at Mmakanke and Gamononyane. If this initiative only challenge we have concerns the administration. could go there, shortage of plots could be reduced at I do not believe that we have shortage of water, the Kweneng. procedures are the ones making it seem like water does not reach villages, water is there. This is what is Thank you for doing a research which shows how happening, there are damages which take place along many people do not have plots. I can tell you that, just the waterline. Damages are done every year, it gets yesterday at Kgope, land board indicated that it was fixed, water leaks. I believe that it is time to come up going to allocate 80 plots and when they got there, only with a permanent solution so that people who stay along 15 plots were allocated. This was because some people the water line should be provided with water. We should there were once allocated plots and they sold them, this provide some strategic points which will provide water meant that they were asking for second plots. These to those people. They stay at the cattle posts. This thing studies are very important because they show us the has been tested. Between Thollamoro and Toteng, there number of Batswana who do not have plots and those is a water point, but these people never do damages. I who are coming for the second time. We are progressing believe that these damages cost the government a lot of well and Botswana is going to be fun because if you do money and has high water wastage cost. If we can fix things efficiently as you are doing now, there is no how that, we would have managed. we can have problems.

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The second thing is water. Our constituency has no water So, as they have high yield, they can be used to solve the Minister but the North-South Carrier (NSC) pipeline water problem whilst waiting for water from the World passes through settlements, fields and villages. Try to Bank. Your officers at the constituency seem to be a bit install standpipes at the fields so that settlements like slow as they are unable to connect but those boreholes Galekgatshwane can get water supply. I am just from are in line. I recently held a meeting and they promised Gamodubu, the pump that you said will be installed for that mid-February they will be connected, but to date, it them has been removed. That pump was removed as it has not happened. They make me to be a liar whereas I was said it reduces water pressure. Even at Mononyane am an honest person. where you made a promise to install one, they say it has not been installed yet. Minister, you can help us, you are The other issue is water bowsers; the Minister promised doing a good job. me that there are on the way. Keep pushing so that they can help because shortage of water at our constituency There is an issue of land servicing which is a concern is disheartening. Minister. Let us try by all means to do minimal servicing and see if we cannot install plastic septic tank so that The other issue I want to quickly mention regard villages as we are waiting for the blueprint, more so that power of and Patayamatebele. There are blueprints is immediately connected if there is a minimum land which have long been approved but the problem raised servicing. At least we shall only suffer when it comes was that there was no water. These poor people get their to water, in the mean time we will draw it elsewhere water supply from Mokgwebana River. No Minister, so that many people in our constituency can get plots kindly look for funds and use those designs before because the majority of them stay at their parents’ they are outdated. Perhaps I should also talk about homes yet they are married. They have nowhere to go this one because at Tati East where I come from, we since they are awaiting land servicing. Let us try to are surrounded by farms. I suspect that the owners of come with other ways to help people get land without some of those farms are not legit. When growing up polluting the environment; we should have vision and while at primary school we used to get firewood at those draw permanent blue prints so that it becomes easier and farms, suddenly when I go there I find a farm. Minister, there will be no more compensations. Let us support the investigate to see if the owners of those farms are legit. Minister and pass this budget. Even buying; look for funds Minister and buy plots for us. At Tati East, we have a problem, we are unable to MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, apply for agricultural programmes because we do not RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR have land. So Minister, kindly look into that issue. LETSHOLATHEBE): Thank you Mr Chairperson. Let me also stand to support the Minister of Land Maybe at this point I should stop complaining and talk Management, Water and Sanitation Services; a very about the Tati Land Board which you know work with diligent man indeed. councils. They were collaborating with Central District Council (CDC) in layout and other things. I think that We used to have water shortage at our constituency but collaboration is a success which I think the Minister in December, we used to talk a lot and he assisted me. should encourage as it improves land allocation because Mr Chairperson, if I were to say all the good things you the land at Tati which I am complaining about, the little do which I picked from your speech, it might take all that is there is not being allocated Minister. Perhaps let the time. Allow me to shoot straight to the challenges me implore you to keep driving your officers to help us. we are facing. Firstly, let me be thankful for the water With those few remarks, I thank you. project soon to be implemented at our constituency in MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you 18 months through the World Bank. I thank you a lot very much Honourable Chairperson for giving me the because I know how difficult World Bank projects are. opportunity so that the voice of Mahalapye people can I commend you for that achievement. Perhaps that is be heard. a long term solution to the problem we have of water situation at our constituency. Maybe let me take this First and foremost, let me talk about water connection. opportunity to talk about short terms solutions which People of Mahalapye are complaining about connecting you can assist us with. Minister, there are boreholes water, they say it is too expensive. You might recall that which have been identified that they have high yield. about 40 per cent of people at Mahalapye are working

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for Ipelegeng so they are complaining about the P1 500 The last one is about the water situation in the entire connection fee. They say Botswana Power Corporation village of Tewane. This village is under Mahalapye is better than Water Affairs because although at Power West Constituency. I once tabled a question here as the connection fee is P5 000, you can connect and soon as we came back from elections regarding the continue paying in instalments but at Water Affairs if water shortage in Tewane. I appreciate you Minister you do not pay P1 500 upfront then you do not get water for having taken action against that issue even though connection. In addition, there is shortage of standpipes it is not a permanent solution. Tewane village still have in the village. So Minister, they request that you look challenges with water. The standpipes which were into this issue maybe apply the same system as BPC so installed … firstly, residents of Tewane did not say they that they can connect water while paying the connection want free water, they said that they are willing to pay fee in instalments or reduce the connection fee at but their taps do not have a button to press so that water Mahalapye. can be collected. Right now, you are saying that there is no water, that you are experiencing shortage simply Secondly Minister, we are very thankful that in the past because they get it for free. So Minister, assess this years, there was a sewage line connected at Mahalapye. issue so that you can supply Tewane with water because However, when this sewage line was connected, it did Tewane residents do not mind paying water bills like not cover the entire village and one might think that any other Motswana. So, do them that justice so that village was new whereas it is an old village. A ward they can connect water to their homes with prices which such as Tshikinyega, there is a side where there is no you can assess. Minister, you can see that Tewane sewage. So, people of Mahalapye are complaining that village like I said is worse; the entire village is working there is no sewage line, there is nowhere…they connect at Ipelegeng. Thank you. septic tanks but after a month it is full. If you go to the Council so that they can drain, you are charged P500. MR PULE (MOCHUDI EAST): Thank you Mr Chairperson. I also stand to thank Honourable Mzwinila This is the thing they complain about daily, so look into for the good job that he is doing. I have been holding it. There are some new plots behind the police station meetings in Mochudi East Constituency. In all these and the hospital, they are not that new, and they do not meetings, Bakgatla were happy about the water in our have sewage line. They also complain about this issue Constituency. In December 2019, Honourable Mzwinila so perhaps you can also address it. Minister, some and his officers solved our water situation, it was full of people were even suggesting that these plots behind the lime and we had water shortage in other villages. As I police station can be connected to the sewage line of the speak, we have water like Honourable Motaosane and police and the hospital so that they do not incur high we are using kettles and geysers. Moreover, they no costs of draining septic tanks when they are full. These longer have blockages and people are no longer crying. are the complaints that the entire Mahalapye community Even though I am thankful Mr Chairperson, we still have are raising. some challenges in one of my villages of . When I visited residents of Ramotlabaki last time, they Then other issue is plot allocations. Minister, there is a told me that, “Honourable Pule, go and tell Honourable problem at Mahalapye. Please scrutinise and take action Mzwinila that we have water, but it is rusty when it regarding this issue at Mahalapye. As I speak, myself comes from the taps.” So, they do not know what and Honourable Yandani Boko are the first Members of causes this condition but suspect that maybe the pipes Parliament at Mahalapye not to own plots, we are in the have developed rust. It is something which I urge the waiting list, I am also in the waiting list. We do not have Minister to pay attention to. One thing I can highlight plots at Mahalapye and it is embarrassing. Minister, take Mr Chairperson is that, employees from Water Utilities action. I told them when I was at Mahalapye recently. in Kgatleng Constituency are hardworking, they always I asked them when the last plot was allocated; it was alert people whenever there is an unpleasant situation allocated to people who long applied back in 2005. concerning water, it might be bursting of pipes. They I told them that if my memory serves me well, I was update the public about such incidences and how long number 3, 000 but I am not implying that I should jump they believe that situation might take. the queue. I simply meant that the day they allocate me a plot, I know that over 3, 000 in front of me would have Other challenges that I noted in Mochudi East been allocated. It is a huge problem at Mahalapye since Constituency concern pipes which usually burst we do not have plots. out. This wastes water Minister. Perhaps your water

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engineers can try to assess this situation and find out are damaged. So, as we move around we see small dams what is the cause because every village experiences that. created by water that leak from underground pipes. I Water wastage rate is high as a result even though we urge you to deal with that issue so that water can reach have a high rate of water shortage. Perhaps you can pay Bangwaketse. attention to that kind of situation sir. I know that we are Minister, wells and old boreholes were supplying us with still experiencing water shortage in some villages like water as we were growing up at Ngwaketse. Nowadays, and …I mean at , there is still it is believed that they cannot supply people with water some shortage here and there Minister. I urge you to because they produce contaminated water. We urge you assess that situation. to visit us so that we can discuss with your Ministry Mr Chairperson, another issue which I wish to conclude because they have abundant water and maybe this water with is that Mochudi East Constituency is vulnerable to can be used for industrial use or for agriculture. bad things. If you look at our Constituency especially Minister, I must also indicate that we seem to be trouble. in villages like Matebeleng, Oodi, and There is a sewage reticulation project which has been , plots are sold in large numbers and we do going on for about four or five years now, and lately, we not know how to deal with that. If you closely look at heard that about 360 employees of the company which it, I was recently given figures of the youth who were is doing this project lost their jobs; they have been allocated plots, but they are selling them. We believe suspended. They are telling us as Members of Parliament that maybe we can stop this situation as a Government that they are suspended because Government did not because our land might end up being sold to foreigners. pay them for what they are doing. So, I urge you to also As you continue to do a good job Minister, I urge you to assess it Minister so that we can understand what the pay attention to situations like these, so that we may be problem is. Residents of Ngwaketse are crying because able to find out what the problem might be. Is it because they are unemployed and the rate of unemployment will your land boards are not doing things accordingly or is increase. it because the youth do not have money and decides to sell plots as a result or what is really happening? For Another issue Minister which I wish to discuss with you example; villages like Dikwididi has the potential to is that old men and old women from Mokgaloothebe become big villages. We hear that people carry briefcases regularly visit Water Utilities offices. They are saying to the old men and old women in order to cheat them that they get bills which they do not understand and and buy their plots. Minister, that is very painful and which are not for them because they have not been maybe you have to sensitise people about it. If possible, having water but they receive bills. They are querying your officers must hold Kgotla meetings and teach these that those bills are not theirs. They are saying that you elderly people that they are not supposed to sell plots. must not ask them to pay and query later. So, you must You have to report your plot to the land board instead of visit them and see those bills. selling it to people you do not know, at least sell it to the Let me now talk to you about the issue of dripping pipes. Government so that you can benefit something out of it Minister, is it not time to harness modern technology because it is really a very painful situation Minister. Let so that we stop asking people to report whenever pipes it be assessed closely, maybe we will benefit something from our plots in Botswana. Thank you Mr Chairperson. are dripping. We have to use modern technology which people can use to detect dripping pipes while they in MR LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): Thank you Mr office. As such, I was standing to support your budget Chairperson. I stand to show that I support the budget proposal sir. Thank you. proposal from the Minister. Minister, let me start by MR KABLAY (LETLHAKENG-LEPHEPHE): thanking you because we are also benefiting from the Thank you Mr Chairperson. Let me start by thanking nice water which comes from the North at Ngwaketse. the Minister because if you approach him because of Thank you. Minister, since I do not have much time, the challenges which your Constituency is facing, he let me explain or remind you that even though we got listens. Let me inform you that residents of Shadishadi this water, there are some areas within our Constituency are grateful because there was no water and you stood which do not get it. This is because we are using the old up and heeded our cry as a Minister. They are therefore designs. Experts are telling us that underground pipes sending their heartfelt gratitude to you and your staff

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for providing them with water. The same goes for I find myself not knowing how to respond but keep Maratswane, they are saying the lack of water that encouraging them to attend Kgotla meetings to go and they were complaining of, where they had to get water listen to complaints of water bills raised by residents. Thank you sir. from people’s boreholes which were far, right now you have connected a borehole for them and they now have MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (DR water. Minister, we appreciate you for your assistance KWAPE): Thank you Mr Chairperson. I also want to on making water available for us. Let me remind you thank Minister… that normally we forget ; we overlooked it HONOURABLE MEMBER: ... (Inaudible)... on electricity some years back but Honourable Molale managed to connect it and right now we are overlooking DR KWAPE: Yes sir, I am representing Kanye South. I it when it comes to water. They are crying everyday thank the Minister for his presentation and also indicate because they do not know where to get water. There my unwavering support especially when it comes to the budget he presented. Honourable Minister, although the is a school which is not operating because they have funds are not enough, I must thank you for the plan that no water to cook for students. Minister, I was therefore you came up with. Mine is just a reminder that in villages asking you to consider Boatlaname on water connection, such as Tsonyane, water is available but the unfortunate funds permitting. I request that water at Letlhakeng be part is that, livestock has no water though there is a purified. The residents are complaining that the water borehole that could provide water. Honourable Minister, is not good for their health. I am therefore asking that please look into this matter so that an arrangement can this water should be tested and purified because we be made concerning Tsonyane borehole in terms of have a purification plant at Serinane and it is not far providing water for livestock. Like Honourable Letsholo Minister. Your ministry has long promised water to mentioned, we have water in Kanye, it is just that it is Matlagatse residents. Therefore Minister, the residents not yet available in other areas. In buttressing his point of Matlagatse and Pheshakwe must be provided with sir, we are using plastic pipes which are not covered and water as per the plan. That is what I was asking for Mr when something steps on them, they get broken and the Chairperson. water leaks. The new plan should come with better pipes which do not get damaged easily. Minister, if there are challenges of land allocation in other constituencies, my constituency has a lot of land Another one which I want to emphasise is bills. The available that we can be allocated. truth of the matter is that, water has been unavailable but when you open a tap, the meter keeps reading as if there HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ... (Laughter!)... is some air pushing through. Although we understand the importance of settling water bills, let us consider MR KABLAY: People should be allocated land because that water has not been available and come up with they want to build. Like we always say, they have gone ways of cutting the bill because this air trapped inside to schools, they are working but the problem is, they taps has hiked the bills. live with their parents. They have wives and children Another point is on plots. We appreciate plots allocated but they do not know what to do with their salaries in Kanye and surrounding areas but there are no roads, because they do not have plots where they can build for no water and people are forced to get water elsewhere themselves. Plots should be allocated at Letlhakeng so which makes building expensive. Let us plan to have that young people can build and be free in their homes. these services reach people, just as electrification is quicker, so should water. The residents of Letlhakeng are complaining about high bills like another Honourable Member said. They have Minister, I am concerned about , Moreane reported that water is leaking in their pipes and no one and Gamae; not even a drop of water is coming out. is taking action. Minister, ask your staff to go and check We should also consider having water reach there. If why residents are paying exorbitant bills because if they water is available in Kanye since we have seen water do not pay, water will be disconnected. Minister, attend points which even Honourable Letsholo saw that they these maters swiftly because they are a thorn on our side were full to the brim, therefore water must be shared at Kgotla meetings. Also ask your staff to attend Kgotla with residents of Lotlhakane so that they can also enjoy meetings addressed by the Member of Parliament. potable water adequately.

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I want to emphasise that sewerage system is bringing the developments of water and land to the disadvantaging us as it is not done on time. Sewerage people. Honourable Minister has talked at length, you system cannot function if the project is not completed have explained your budget on how you are going to on time. We ask you to look into the work relations supply water to people in different areas of Botswana. between the company and workers because there is a We thank you very much for what you have done. great outcry that workers are mistreated. Let me thank Honourable Minister, you have indicated Lastly Minister, look into the issue of burrow pits which that the project of infrastructure development and land was raised by Honourable Mathoothe. There should be servicing will be carried out in Ghanzi in this budget. a firm system, not where it is said that an individual has Honourable Minister, we are thankful for that. You found a burrow pit for himself or herself and has made will realise that Ghanzi Township is the stronghold an arrangement of rehabilitating it. Let it be clear for all of Ghanzi North constituency. However, it has been who want to do it to do so. many years since land was not allocated in this town. Honourable Minister, at the completion of this project, The very last one is hospital plots. Sometimes some I guess that plots which will be allocated, will be the areas do not enjoy developments because there is no last available land in our town. Our town is surrounded land. Therefore as you allocate land, hospitals and by freehold farms. We request that you start looking for Government offices should be pre allocated so that land because we have long requested that you buy these we become part of developments. Thank you Mr farms so that Ghanzi can have space for expansion. Chairperson. Let me also thank the Honourable Minister that he has MR CHAIRPERSON: I am going to call upon the shown that there will also be a project at our constituency last person to speak, he has only spoken once since we at Kuke, supplying water to the people of Kuke. It has started, that would be Honourable Thiite. I think we been a long time since those people were supplied have done justice to this. with water from bowsers, and the bowsers were also HONORABLE MEMBER: Procedure. not doing well. Not so long ago I asked a question in relation to the issues of remote areas. MR THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): Thank you Mr Chairperson. Let me take this opportunity to commend Honourable Minister, let me also thank you for another the Minister… project that is aimed at supplying drinking water, we are running short of storage capacity at Ghanzi; in our town. HONORABLE MEMBER: Procedure. Let the projects be sped up, and not be behind schedule MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Mmolotsi, there is because we have long been requesting for assistance no procedure. I have just called the Honourable Member Honourable Minister. to talk, and I have informed you that we have done justice to this topic. I have not broken any procedure. There is a situation that our town has a challenge when it comes to expansion space, so people especially the MR THIITE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Let me take youth are allocated plots maybe farm plots, or business this time to thank you… plots where there are no resources. That is the same as not being allocated land. You should really look into MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Chairperson, procedure. buying the farms Honourable Minister, so that there is MR CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mmolotsi, who is out of space where the town will grow. procedure? Yes tell me! Residents of Grootlagte have no water, they need HONOURABLE MEMBER: … (Inaudible)… assistance with water. Residents of D’kar Honourable Minister, not so long ago I asked a question about HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ... (Laughter!)... D’kar…

MR CHAIRPERSON: Proceed, Honourable Thiite... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR THIITE: Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me take MR THIITE: There is no time Honourable Member. this opportunity to thank Honourable Minister for Residents of D’kar Honourable Minister stay in a reporting with skill the process and procedure of private farm. We have long asked the Council of Ghanzi

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to engage in talks with them, but they do not have much Honourable Majaga was talking about the Self Help power to engage in talks with them. Really the Council Housing Agency (SHHA) project which I think has years do not have the power to answer. Let this issue of D’kar behind schedule. Our challenge with that SHHA project be looked into Honourable Minister, really look into it, and the provision of plots has been the contractors. I and call the Honourable Minister of Local Government think we are now on our third contractor. The first two and Rural Development, maybe discuss it in detail, and contractors disappointed us. determine a way that as leaders you can negotiate on how you as the Honourable Minister responsible for land In terms of Mosetse Dam Honourable Member, as I said can give this issue direction, so that we see what can be at your Kgotla Meeting, I think it was last year, we do done about the suffering of the people of D’kar. They not have a plan to do Mosetse Dam. Instead, we have have already increased in numbers, and this situation is Sowa Master Plan that is going to be implemented this becoming worrisome Honourable Minister. year. You gave a suggestion of physical planners to be in every land board. That is something that we agree with, There is also an issue regarding water in the Ghanzi but the issue is lack of resources. Resources permitting, district. Even though we thank you for bringing us these we may be able to do that. developments Honourable Minister, which you have given us in this financial year, the water situation is a Honourable Motaosane was talking about Kumakwane. We have a plan for Kumakwane. We are going to supply concern. The health of residents of Ghanzi will end up Kumakwane from Diremogolo which will be supplied being in danger. When you buy a kettle, you will use from Gamononyane. That plan is in place, and it will it to boil water for only three months, then it develops cater for Kumakwane. Honourable Member said, we a residue that shows you that indeed the lives of these must retain most of the existing land board members in people are in danger Honourable Minister. April. Your advice has been heard Honourable Member.

I must emphasise that, if we want the transformation we Honourable Lesaso was talking about the challenge are talking about to be possible, and for us residents of we have with dilapidated pipes. Unfortunately, there Ghanzi constituency to be part of this transformation, we used to be three water authorities which were using need appropriate infrastructure to be taken to the people. different types of pipes, and then when we consolidated Really when we are talking about taking appropriate into a single water authority, we had a lot of challenges infrastructure to the people, we need land. Thank you. because some of the pipes, their lifespan was different from others. Some of the pipes, their quality in terms MR CHAIRPERSON: Honourable Members, just of being able to resist pressure or take pressure, was before we decided that Honourable Members would different from others. We have plans in place to see how speak for five minutes each, I indicated that I was going we can upgrade and fix the pipe network. I know that to use my powers to extend the time available on this the plans will have severe financial challenges, but we very important ministry. I know Honourable Mzwinila will continue to see where we can gather more money was expecting probably to answer much earlier than for these upgrades. this, but your ministry Minister, is cardinal for the Honourable Member also said that, we need to use development of this country. It is absolutely cardinal. ground or well-field water in an emergency scenario; That is the reason why I used my powers to extend. and we should be focusing on using water in the dams. So Honourable Minister, may I ask you to reply to the I disagree with you Honourable Member. We do what is debates of your colleagues. called conjunctive use of both surface and underground water. International best practice is to use both sources MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER so that we protect both sources. Maybe Honourable AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Members do not know that sometimes the water we I thank you Honourable Chairperson. I will just try to drink in Gaborone is from Masama, sometimes it is summarise my response for each and every member. from the dams. It is going to continue being that way. Honourable Molao was talking about ensuring that We use them conjunctively. the schools have water, and it is something that we are working on with his ministry. He was talking about the Honourable Tshabang was talking about relaxing the North East/Tutume project which should be launched requirements; the design and the layout, the strategic sometime this month, and the Borolong/Chadibe Project environmental assessment, the geo-technical et cetera. which has already been launched. Honourable Member, yes, we can do this to reduce

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the cost in terms of provision of serviced land, but as Honourable Monnakgotla was talking about the Honourable Ramogapi has pointed out, if we miss one litigation in terms of Environmental Consultant and the of these, I think we are talking about when there is no Engineering Consultant. Unfortunately Honourable, need for geotechnical survey. The reason why people in there is not much we can do with these issues once Palapye have severe flooding in the houses and certain they have gone to the Administration of Justice (AOJ). areas is because they are close to the water table. When Sometimes we are actually the ones who are being the water table rises, the water rises above ground by taken to court, so, there is not much we can do from our natural attrition. If we had done geotechnical surveys, side. Why council bills were lower than Water Utilities; we would not have this challenge. I disagree that there is they were lower because the amount of water that was no importance in terms of having geotechnical surveys. used at that time is less than now. The technology and It is better to do them, to ensure that we do not have infrastructure that we have to pay for is greater now, problems of water seepage because the water table is than then. near the ground. Honourable Segokgo; I note your point about Tlokweng Honourable Member talked about allocation of and the water losses in the distribution network. I think unserviced land; it is something that we do at times. that as you pointed out, technology will be key to We are constrained because if we do not do the design resolving this issue. and layout, then we are going to be retrofitting water and sewage, which triples the price or the cost of those Honourable Saleshando; I think that in a couple of facilities. If we do not do a Strategic Environmental months, we are going to do two more ground-breakings Assessment (SEA), there is something you are missing in Maun. We will do a ground-breaking for Kunyere in the equation and if you do not do a geotechnical, there well fields and Contract II of the Maun Project, so for will be something that you are missing. I think this one now, we will have three ground-breakings in Maun. I requires a greater consultation in terms of what we can trust that you will comment on those ground-breakings. do, and do we proceed with unserviced land provision Contract I of Maun was designed and built. What the and then when will we be able to get those services to contractor is now doing is they are on sites. They are those residents. We have been thinking of other ideas doing the design which should not take long and I think for example; having two waiting lists. We can divide the by June or July, they will start the construction. It is not waiting lists; those who want serviced land and those that the contractors have abandoned the project, they who will be content with minimal land servicing. That are doing something that most people do not realise or may be a solution, but we do not take a decision without do not see them doing. You also talked about the court extensive consultations. We have been undergoing a cases; yes, we have numerous court cases and I think the lot of Public Private Partnership (PPP) models with last judgement on this contract was last week. I think it the private sector to see how they can assist in terms came out on Wednesday, and on Friday, we appealed of the provision of serviced land. The bigger exercise it. The Honourable Member talked about lack of clarity which we have started is to assess the sustainability of and certainty on concession areas. What is delaying in providing free serviced land. The services we provide terms of concessions is that we need to get the model on average requires about P120 000 to P130 000.00 right. We need to ensure on how we are going to ensure per plot, so we do not know whether it is sustainable. consistency among different land boards in terms of If we have 600, it is now 618 000 as we continue with the key priority areas of citizen empowerment and cleaning. If 618 000 people require serviced plots, just economic development. We need to have certainty and multiply that by P120 000.00, we will never have that consistency. I think that by the time the new land board amount of money for this ministry. starts operating in April, I will call him for a meeting and we will finally agree on certain issues and then we Honourable Dikoloti was talking about the long term will rule out the concession programme. solution for water problems in Southern Botswana. As I said, we need to have three pipelines up and running. Honourable Mathoothe talked about Serule Water We are in a very precarious situation. We are completely Project. We are going to ground-break that one very relying on one venue or artery to supply Southern soon. You talked about Local Reservation Policy; at Botswana, that is why we want to ensure that we have times, we agree with local reservation especially in redundancy and plan for the year 2030 and 2040. terms of residentials but with commercial plots, we

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tend to not agree because commercial plots are meant this issue. So far where we are, we are agreeing in terms for commercial enterprises and must be competed for. of the dispensation to change ploughing fields into The people we give these plots to must demonstrate the different uses. It can benefit the churches especially the capacity to develop these plots accordingly. ploughing fields which are in the middle of the village or right by the village. That one is work in progress Honourable Mmusi talked about buying more machines and I am quite optimistic. Actually, I addressed all of for designing layouts; yes, I agree with you Honourable the church leadership sometime last year on this issue. Member if the Human Resources (HR) capacity permits. You said investors should not be given land but rather Honourable Molebatsi wanted to know why there were be leased land. We probably do, we leased land at the so many court cases. In my view, there are many court present moment to deserving investors. cases because we are talking about significant amounts Honourable Nkawana; you were talking about the of money. Those who lose, they want to make a legal churches and I think I have answered that one. challenge for that issue. It has nothing to do with us Concession areas; the issue of first right of refusal, we as a ministry because you will find that most of the do not do that first right of refusal in concession areas. times, Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Board If you recall, most of the concession areas are Wildlife (PPADB) is the respondent. PPADB are the experts in Management Areas (WMAs), so if they are WMAs, it terms of procurement. Dam dragging is a good idea would not be proper to have first right of refusal for a Honourable but the biggest problem that we have is commercial undertaking such as a lodge. It is a process evapotranspiration in our dams because they are too that we are currently reviewing. wide. I believe that we can do dam dragging but the evapotranspiration is going to hit us. Serule-Selebi Honourable Regoeng asked why we are not utilising all Phikwe pipeline is going to directly affect Mmadinare the development funds, this year we utilized 53 per cent. and Damchujenaa, so they will significantly get more I think the biggest challenge is that half of our projects water and the water situation will be permanently are in some sort of investigation. That is one challenge, addressed. Dikgokong and Lebala denied certificates, the other challenge is capacity constraints within the ministry, human resource capacity constraints and and that is a work in progress. We are still consulting also expertise in certain things. That is why we tend to other ministries because the issue is not just within this outsource a lot of things to consulting engineers to assist ministry. At the present moment, I can assure you that it us. Our goal is to become more efficient in terms of will be resolved sooner rather than later. project delivery and we will implement certain measures Honourable Mangwegape-Healy; you were applauding to make sure we become more efficient. We increased the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) for the liberation water in Molepolole, but we are going to increase it struggle that they partook in. I also agree with you my more once we get Gamononyane to Molepolole up and Honourable Member of Parliament (MP). You appreciate running. You implored us to do things properly so we the cleaning of the waiting list, we are also doing that and do not go to courts; yes, we will continue to do our best to do things properly. As I have said, sometimes it is we need to complete Land Administration Procedures, not just us who the contractors are taking to court, it is Capacity and Systems (LAPCAS). We intend to have Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) the first certificates out by June 2020. The Participatory and even other Government agencies. Slum Upgrading Programme (PSUP) is a continuous process, thus resources permitting, we are going to roll Honourable Billy; you talked about projects timelines; it out to other places. what we are saying in terms of the projects. We commit to the projects timelines as long as there are no Honourable Ramogapi talked about churches requiring confounding variables. Confounding variables should land, which is a persistent theme with other Honourable be from third parties to the process. You talked about Members. I think last year, the President instructed land for churches which I think I have talked about. You that we come up with a solution of churches requiring also welcome the changes to the Land Policy which we land and what we can do within the framework of the did last year. transformation agenda. We have formed a technical working group between the ministry and the church Honourable Mthimkhulu; you said private sector should bodies. They have organised bodies and I have instructed assist us in land servicing, yes, we are quite keen on this, the formation of a technical working group to look into but we want genuine private sector investors. We have

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had cases where private individuals or companies come must be part of that development planning because our to us and then they say they will develop this amount biggest challenge is water. Any development planning of land, we give them provisional lease and after four, must introduce elements of how we are going to get five or six years, we are now fighting with them to get water and how we are going to clean it. I understand the lease back and cancel the arrangement. They were Honourable Member that you want us to fast-track not genuine when they said they were going to develop increasing water provision to Molepolole and we will land. You said you support the reticulation of water to do that. the south, and I think that is something that is a burning concern to us. That is why I said, we are going to need Honourable Hikuama; yes, I do listen, just like I listened multiple pipelines but even more important, we are to you when you came to me, right? going to need water outside the country. From the year HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… 2035 onwards, we are going to be reliant on water that is coming from outside the country, either from Chobe MR MZWINILA: Should I tell what you always River, the ocean or Lesotho. say when you are with me? I do listen. We are trying as much as we can to address water challenges in Honourable Boko; you mentioned the water challenges your constituency. I do acknowledge that you did in Mahalapye, we are addressing them. We have acknowledge that we did do something in Gumare and commenced the upgrading of Mahalapye water Sepopa, in terms of the treatment plants. We are working treatment works. During the financial year 2021/22, we on more solutions to ensure that the other villages have should be finished with this project. better supply and optimise the supply in Gumare and Honourable Motsamai talked about the Kgalagadi Sepopa. You talked about ungazetted settlements, we do Wellfields Project, and because you are giving water not provide ungazetted settlements, for the simple reason to others, you should also get something in return. I that we are already extremely over stretched in provision think in our national discourse as a Government, we of water to recognised settlements. Honourable Minister understand that we pull our resources together and of Local Government and Rural Development is the one that is what we will continue to do as a Government. who gazettes a settlement. Once it is gazetted, now we Pull our resources together for the benefit of every have to provide water to that settlement. Motswana. You said that the numbering of plots was Honourable Makwinja; I was surprised the done for cheating with the Electronic Voting Machine Gamononyane tap was not installed, I will make a (EVM), I am not aware of that. That is news to me, I follow up. Honourable Member, also talked about am completely unaware of that and I do not know how where the pipelines pass, can you now just tap there and it will work either. You talked about ancestral rights to make tapping into the bulk water supply and make a tap land which is something that we entertain, as long as for the people in that area, unfortunately we cannot. You other Government departments come and assist us with do not disturb the bulk water supply pipelines, we only documentary information, such as Bogosi and Archives. disturb them when they are feeding into reservoirs. We I appreciate your point Honourable Motsamai that we will see what we can do about the tap at Gamononyane. Also, land servicing in your constituency Honourable, should be ensuring that we give people serviced land. we are going to see how we can expedite that burning Honourable Lelatisitswe; you talked about churches issue that we are both aware of. I am going to try my and land which I have already talked about. You talked best to expedite it. about my trip to your constituency, those projects are Honourable Tshabang; you also talked about North East ongoing Honourable Member. As I said, once we finish Tutume Project which will benefit 52 villages, I must with the design phase, we will start the construction make a date. The date will be sometime this month sir, phase immediately. You said the Ngwato Landboard I will inform the four of you who are affected by this board members should be removed and not come back project. into office, I hear you Honourable Member. Honourable Tshere; you talked about being expensive Honourable Morwaeng; you are correct that water to connect water, it is not really expensive because P1 scarcity has affected certain projects such as Botswana 500 is the subsidised rate. The actual rate is P4 000 to Housing Corporation (BHC). In development planning, connect water into your yard, we have subsidised. Now, especially in a country such as ours, water availability Botswana Power Corporation (BPC) can manage to have

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an installment programme because they are getting a lot You mentioned high water bills. High water bills can be of money from that connection. P5 000, most people for a number of reasons. It can be because there is an cannot pop it out at the very beginning, but our rates are error. I always ask Batswana that if they feel that there is already subsidised in terms of the provision of water. an error, please go to Water Utilities Corporation (WUC) The other major challenge we have is that, allowing and ask them to itemise, assist or correct, because errors people to have installments may be tricky for us because can happen. So the first port of call is to go and lodge we are already owed massively, close to a billion Pula your complaint, and they will sit down with you and see by our customers. The ones in Dibete are going to be whether it is an actual correct bill or incorrect. Most of connected to North South Carrier Honourable Member. the time the bills are correct because the leaks which I think I informed you of that, in the interim period, we occur are within the household, the plot or the home. will see what we can do in terms of temporary measures. There are numerous leaks which occur; toilets, taps, et cetera et cetera. So, sometimes the leaks are genuine, Honourable Pule; Ramotlabaki is a new borehole, I and if the leak is genuine within the household or the think we drilled and commissioned it last year. If it is yard, that means that bill will also be genuine. As I producing red water, I will get them to go and assess it, said, I have instructed WUC to listen to Batswana when it is maybe an issue of the equipment of the pipes. Yes, they come with their queries about bills and assist them we did fix the water treatment plant supplying the river accordingly. villages. You mentioned that people complain that the reasons Transfer of plots; we will continue to try and educate why the bills are high is because they have complained people about this, the peril in terms of transferring plots. of water losses. If there are water losses outside the yard it does not reflect on your meter, what reflects in your Honourable Letsholo, network rehabilitation is required. meter is the water going through your meter. What we are doing now is that we are trying to cost the actual amount of money we are going to require for Honourable Kwape, you mentioned the issue of high network rehabilitation in Kanye, and we may come back water bills again. to this Honourable House for assistance, if we do not HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… have the finances. MR MZWINILA: My time has been increased. In terms of 360 workers being dismissed, I do not want to go into details of this issue because it is sensitive. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… What I can assure you Honourable Member is that, we MR MZWINILA: Let me finish. Water has arrived are not the reason why this situation is as is. We are in Kanye as the Honourable Member has said, but the not the ones to blame for why the situation is as it is. issue is the distribution network. So, we will do our best I can communicate this in more detail with you and to ensure that we address the issue as expeditiously as Honourable Kwape so that you understand. The first possible because our role is to ensure that Batswana step of recourse, if employees feel that they have not get water. High water bills as I was saying, we have been treated properly is the Labour Department, it is to ensure that… Honourable Chairperson, have you not necessarily our ministry. As I have said, I cannot increased my time? disclose too much about this at the present moment. MR CHAIRPERSON: Yes Minister! Honourable Kablay, yes I appreciate the appreciation from the people of Shadishadi, and we are going to see MR MZWINILA: Okay thank you sir. We will how we can address your situation at Boatlaname. Land ensure that we cater for any issues surrounding our is available as you say Honourable Member, but land water equipment, it may be non-functional. We do availability is not the only criteria. We need to have acknowledge that there can be human error, since we funds for different types of service, and then we need manually take these readings, there can be some sort of massive funds in terms of land servicing. As I said, human error. The other issue is that, sometimes you are the direction we want to go in terms of land servicing not allowed access into the yards for months on end, and is to have a national discussion on different ways and then when we do get access we find that the person owes different models of provision of land servicing. us a great deal of money. This is going to become more

34 Hansard No 196 Thursday 5th March, 2020 ORGANISATION 1800 – MINISTRY OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER AND SANITATION SERVICES Committee of Supply (Resumed Debate)

apparent over the next days or months, because now whether there is sense in asking the Minister of Health WUC is aggressively seeking to reduce their debt. We to read two paragraphs of his statement because it is just have a significant debt, and we are aggressively seeking not going to make sense to anybody. that those who justifiably owe water or owe their water bill should pay us, so that we can have more money to Honourable Members, order! order! Honourable take to other projects. Minister of Health, Dr Kwape, I am afraid if you had prepared your voice for today, you will have to ask your You also mentioned the contractor and their 360 children to attend to you on Sunday so that on Monday employees. As I said, I can discuss with you Honourable you are sharp. Honourable Members, let us agree that Member in private. As I said, the first port of call for there is no time really to start the next chapter. I will call these issues is the Department of Labour, not our upon the Honourable Dr Unity Dow to move a Motion ministry. of adjournment.

Honourable Thiite, you talked about the projects in your MOTION constituency and I welcome that you are enthusiastic and excited about them just as we are, and we will try ADJOURNMENT our best to ensure that they come to fruition. You talked MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND about your will for better quality water. Yes, I think that COOPERATION (DR DOW): Thank you Mr Speaker. you are justified in requiring better quality water, but Mr Speaker, on your invitation, I move that this House sometimes we have limitations in the technology we use do adjourn. Thank you. in terms of our treatment plants, but we are trying to address those issues. However, you should be assured Question put and agreed to. that the water is fit for human consumption, because The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:00 p.m. until WUC tests its water on a regular basis, and they have Friday 6th international certifications and protocol to make sure March, 2020 at 9:00 a.m. that they test their water and it passes appropriately.

Having said that Mr Chairperson, I conclude my presentation of the 2020/2021 Recurrent and Development Budget proposals. I move that the sum of One Billion, Thirty-Nine Million, Nine Hundred and Twenty-Nine Thousand, Two Hundred and Twenty Pula (P1 039 929 220. 00) for the Recurrent Budget be approved and stand part of the 2020/2021 Appropriation Bill for Head 1800, and that the sum of Two Billion, Sixty-Nine Million and Five Hundred Thousand Pula (P2 069 500 000.00) for the Development Budget be approved and stand part of the same schedule of the Appropriation Bill 2020/2021 for Organisation 1800. I move accordingly. I thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Honourable Minister. Honourable Members, as I said, this is a ministry we considered deserving to be given a little bit more time, and you indicated that by many Members of Parliament (MPs) standing at the same time.

Question put and agreed to.

…(Silence)…

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): ...Honourable Members, we have just seven minutes. I am not sure

Hansard No 196 35 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms Z. Molemi

HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Alepeng, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

HANSARD LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

36 Hansard No 196