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Thursday Volume 608 28 April 2016 No. 151 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday 28 April 2016 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2016 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1521 28 APRIL 2016 1522 Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): House of Commons There are growing concerns about drone incidents that threaten public safety. It is not very clear whether the Thursday 28 April 2016 problem lies with the regulations themselves or with the enforcement of those regulations. Will the Secretary of State look at those issues? The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Mr McLoughlin: Yes, I certainly will. Earlier this week I met BALPA—the meeting had been planned PRAYERS before the incident on 17 April—to discuss that issue as well as the problems that laser pen use is causing for civil aviation in this country. I will certainly keep those [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] things under review and do further work, along with BALPA, the industry and the CAA, on drones and drone use. Oral Answers to Questions Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend assure me that all regulations and guidance on drones and air safety will apply and be TRANSPORT communicated to airports outside London, such as East Midlands airport in my constituency, to ensure that we have a consistent air safety policy across the The Secretary of State was asked— country? Drones (Safety Risks) Mr McLoughlin: Yes. My hon. Friend makes a very good point: this is a matter not just for London airports, 1. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): What recent but for airports outside London and right across the assessment he has made of potential safety risks posed country, which serve very important international by drones to civil aviation. [904737] connections. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP): McLoughlin): Drones have great potential, but it is I hear what the Transport Secretary is saying about his important that they are used safely. There are already engagement with airports, but this is also an issue for tough penalties in place for negligent drone use, including stadiums, railway stations and other places where the up to five years’ imprisonment for endangering an public gather in huge numbers. What discussions has he aircraft. The Department continues to work with the had with the widest possible range of stakeholders, British Airline Pilots Association and the Civil Aviation including local authorities, on the use of drones? Authority to assess the safety risks of drones. Mr McLoughlin: I have updated the House on the Paul Flynn: Should not the Government heed the issue addressed by the tabled question, namely aviation. warning of Heathrow and, instead of taking their rather Of course, there are wider issues and the Government complacent position, realise not only the potential for keep them consistently under review. catastrophes as a result of vandals or careless people using drones, but the dreadful possibility of terrorists using drones against stores of flammable material or Stewart Malcolm McDonald: I am grateful for that—even nuclear power stations? Already, drones are being used if it was not much of an answer, to be entirely honest. to take mobile phones and drugs into Wandsworth The Secretary of State also briefly touched on another prison. Should not the Government wake up and realise very important issue relating to the threat that laser that this new menace is a potential great threat, and pens pose to airports across the United Kingdom. take precautions to reduce universal access to drones? BALPA has called for all but the lowest-strength laser pens to be banned. What is his response to that? Mr McLoughlin: There is no complacency whatever from the Government on the use of drones. As I have Mr McLoughlin: As I informed the House a few said, there is a prison sentence available, and obviously I moments ago, I met BALPA earlier this week. It has will keep the situation under review. It is also important come forward with issues about laser pens. There is a to find out the facts behind certain incidents. It is now bigger problem with laser pens, and much more evidence thought that the incident reported on 17 April was not a about the way in which they have been used. It is illegal drone incident. to shine them in someone’s eyes, and there have been more prosecutions, but I am willing to take further Mrs Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (Con): action once we have reached agreement on the best way Could the Secretary of State update the House on the forward. state of investment in our roads in the north-east, particularly the A1? Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): Mr Speaker, you may recall that this time last month, I Mr Speaker: No. That is a most interesting matter, asked the Minister of State, the hon. Member for but a little distant from the matter of drones. Save it for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill), when, after the long summer evenings that lie ahead. three years of working groups, we would be told what 1523 Oral Answers28 APRIL 2016 Oral Answers 1524 the Government were going to do about the danger of Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con): Constituents drones to civil aircraft. His answer, you will recall, left of mine wishing to get back to Bexhill and Battle after us none the wiser. 9 o’clock on a Monday or Tuesday night are having to This week, things became even vaguer when the undertake a large portion of their journey by replacement Minister appeared to say in a written answer that he is bus, and we have just found out that that will carry on not even going to consult on anything until the European for the rest of the year. I declare an interest because that Aviation Safety Agency has decided what to do. That is impacts on me on a Monday evening, but my intentions, all happening at a time of reports that drones might as ever, are purely altruistic when I ask the Minister have hit a civil aircraft, and of drones being banned whether she would meet me to try to find out whether over London altogether when President Obama was in Network Rail can conduct this engineering work during town. Other countries have already brought in registration the night. schemes and other initiatives, so when are we going to see some clear proposals from the Government, without Mr Speaker: It is good that the hon. Gentleman is having to wait for a US President to come to town? doing more than just talking to himself about the matter. That is very encouraging. Mr McLoughlin: Part of the point was made by the hon. Gentleman in his question when he said, “it might Claire Perry: My hon. Friend represents many thousands have been”. Governments do not legislate on what of travelling constituents, and he is assiduous in raising might be; they act on what the dangers are. As I have their concerns. I will, of course, meet him and look at said, we are in discussions with the airline pilots’ union what can be done to speed up that particular piece of BALPA, as well as the CAA, about the right way to work. develop this. If the hon. Gentleman is saying that all drones should be banned completely, I should point out Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): that the Labour party never thought about when it was Passengers are, of course, completely inadequately in office. compensated for delays, and I welcome the support that the Minister is giving to my campaign to halve the delay Disruption Payment Scheme (Train Services) repay timings. Would she also support my campaign to sack Southern, which has proved itself completely incapable 2. Joan Ryan (Enfield North) (Lab): What recent of running a railway service and should have its services assessment he has made of the adequacy of the schedule handed over to Transport for London? 8 disruption payment scheme for Network Rail and train operating companies. [904738] Claire Perry: I am delighted that the right hon. Gentleman is supporting the Conservative party’s manifesto The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport commitment to reduce delay repay to 15 minutes. It is (Claire Perry): The framework and the amount of lovely that at least some shreds of that coalition co-operation schedule 8 compensation are set by the Office of Rail are still in action. He and I have discussed the Southern and Road, which is conducting a review into this issue franchise many times. It is difficult. There are record at the moment. The Department has provided input levels of engineering work taking place on the line, and into the consultation, and the right hon. Lady is welcome we are doing all we can, as he knows, to ensure that to raise her concerns directly with the regulator. passengers suffer the least disruption possible and get the compensation to which they are entitled when their Joan Ryan: I know that the Minister has concerns trains do not run on time. about schedule 8 payments, as do I. It is scandalous that train operators make millions from rail delays at the Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab): expense of passengers suffering from a poor standard Schedule 8 compensation is not making its way to my of service. What immediate steps might the Government travelling public.