Thursday Volume 513 8 July 2010 No. 29

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 8 July 2010

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Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): House of Commons Does my hon. Friend accept that there are constituencies in the south-east that face economic and regeneration Thursday 8 July 2010 challenges as great as those elsewhere in the country? Will he—

The House met at half-past Ten o’clock Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but I must explain to the hon. Gentleman that the question specifically relates to the north-west and that although other parts of the PRAYERS country might share similar concerns, they are not relevant to this question. We all get used to these things; I have made these mistakes myself, I assure him. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): The Minister will know that businesses in the north-west Oral Answers to Questions are very concerned about the loss of investment that could result from the abolition of the Northwest Regional Development Agency. Will he answer a question that I asked a few weeks ago? Is the £1 billion of additional BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS growth money from the regional growth fund in addition to or instead of money that has already been allocated to RDAs and local authorities for economic growth? The Secretary of State was asked— Mr Prisk: The regional growth fund is entirely separate Inward Investment (North-west) from the RDA changes. We are keen to strengthen local economies, hence our move on local enterprise partnerships, 1. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): What steps he plans but the regional growth fund will bring £1 billion to the to take to encourage inward investment to the hon. Lady’s region and the other selected regions. It will north-west. [6678] start in 2011 and I think it is good news. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Business Support (Wales) and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): UK Trade & Investment works with local partners to support inward investors, and in 2008-09 it helped to create or safeguard more 2. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) than 10,000 jobs in the north-west. The Government (PC): When he last met the Deputy First Minister in intend to publish a White Paper later this year, which the Welsh Assembly Government to discuss policy to will provide more detail on how inward investment can support businesses in Wales. [6679] best be supported by UKTI and the Government as a whole. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): As I gallop to Wales from Mark Menzies: I thank the Minister for his answer. I the north-west, let me make sure that I give the hon. am sure that many businesses in Fylde will welcome his Gentleman the right answer. response. In his recent speech, the Chancellor of the My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has not Exchequer said that Britain was open for business. Can yet had the opportunity to meet the Deputy First the Minister give an example of a business that is taking Minister to discuss business support in Wales, but, as that on board? the hon. Gentleman will know, business support is a Mr Prisk: That is an excellent question; let me give an devolved activity. example. The Chancellor’s decision to simplify and reduce corporate tax rates will directly help to attract Jonathan Edwards: I am sure that the Minister would more investment. Indeed, by 2014, this country will like to join me in congratulating the One Wales coalition have the lowest corporation tax rates of any major in Wales on reaching its third anniversary this month, western country. That is good for investment and good with the Deputy First Minister’s Department having for jobs. developed innovative strategies such as ProAct and ReAct. The Department is also publishing, this week, Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): Is the Minister aware of its new economic renewal programme, which focuses the huge Mersey Gateway project in my constituency to efforts on improving business infrastructure, such as build a second bridge across the Mersey? Independent broadband provision, in Wales. Will the Minister make examination shows that it would probably create 4,000 representations to his colleagues in the Department for to 5,000 new jobs as well as hundreds of construction Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that the money that jobs. Will he remind the Transport Secretary of the would have been spent for the benefit of Wales, through importance to inward investment and jobs of that project, the independently funded news consortiums pilot, is which is currently postponed, pending review? released directly to the Welsh Assembly Government to help them to achieve their broadband objectives? Mr Prisk: I am more than happy to talk to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport. The Mr Prisk: The economic renewal programme, which I hon. Gentleman is right that in order to encourage have had an opportunity to look at, has considerable investment we need to look at longer-term projects, and merit, not least because it moves away from the tinkering investment is an important part of that. and meddling of the last Labour Government and 505 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 506 towards infrastructure. Broadband investment is very Manufacturing Industry Investment important and the Ministers who deal with broadband will have heard his representations. The issue is important and we want to act on it promptly. 4. Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of investment by manufacturing industry; and if he will Sheffield Forgemasters make a statement. [6681]

3. Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): What The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation factors he took into account in deciding to withdraw and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): In 2009, the volume of the £80 million loan facility to Sheffield Forgemasters. manufacturing investment in the UK declined by 21%, the [6680] largest annual fall on record, and it declined in 10 of the last 11 years. This Government believe that that trend The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and can be reversed. In developing our plans to rebalance Skills (Vince Cable): The decision not to pursue the the economy, we are keen to ensure that we provide the loan was taken on grounds of affordability. best long-term environment in which manufacturing can grow. Mr Betts: Will the Secretary of State withdraw the entirely false accusations that were levelled at Graham Mr Bain: I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, Honeyman, the chief executive of Sheffield Forgemasters, but will he reflect on the comments from the Institute that he was not prepared to sell any shares in the for Fiscal Studies and the manufacturers’ organisation company? The reality is that the loan facility went the Engineering Employers Federation that the biggest alongside a private finance package involving equity beneficiaries of the Government’s changes to capital release. What Graham Honeyman and the workers, and investment allowances and corporation tax are 65% of whom own shares in Forgemasters, did not want low-investment and high-profit firms— to do was sell the company off to an absentee owner, “Banks and supermarkets rather than manufacturers”, given that they had rescued it from an absentee owner as the IFS put it? What practical help can the Minister and near-bankruptcy in 2005. Will the Secretary of offer to manufacturing industry today? State withdraw the accusations against Graham Honeyman and recognise that he has resurrected that company and that it would do even better in future if it had the loan Mr Prisk: I must correct the hon. Gentleman and alongside a package involving equity release? give him the correct facts. We have had to reduce capital allowances to enable us to fund the corporate tax cuts, but the net result of the changes is that manufacturing—and Vince Cable: The Government’s decision has absolutely not the industries to which he referred—will still be nothing to do with the issues that the hon. Gentleman better off. Indeed, by 2014-15, it will be better off by has raised. We regard Mr Honeyman and his team as £250 million per annum. I think that that is a very good having produced an excellent project. We have no criticism policy, although I detect that the Labour party may of him or the company. Officials in the Department are now be opposed to it. now working to try to help to achieve a private sector solution. Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): We accept that the coalition Government have put many good things in place to help Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I industry generally, but I have a specific question about yield to no one in my admiration for Graham Honeyman, manufacturing. Will the Minister say whether the having visited Sheffield Forgemasters when I was shadow Government are planning any particular help for Minister following the floods that devastated the company. manufacturing to restore it to its rightful place, which is However, will my right hon. Friend explain why, of all leading the world? the grants and loans issued by Yorkshire Forward, north Yorkshire gets less than the 11% share to which it would be entitled and— Mr Prisk: Indeed we are, and our plans include the changes to corporation tax that mean that manufacturing industry is better off by £250 million, the reduction of Mr Speaker: Order. That is wide of the question. The the burden of red tape and the removal of many regulators, short answer is no, Secretary of State. and the £150 million that has been set aside to fund up to 50,000 more apprentices. The Government’s stronger Miss McIntosh rose— long-term approach contrasts with the pick ‘n’ mix tactics and the tinkering and meddling that we had from Mr Speaker: Order. It is wide, and that is the end of the last Labour Government. the matter. I remind the House that manufacturing investment declined in 10 of the last 11 years. That is the record of Mr Betts: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Given the Labour Government, and Labour Members should the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, may I indicate be ashamed of it. that I would like to seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at a further date? Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): I want to return to the issue of capital allowances. The Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman has done so and Minister and the Secretary of State have said that they that is perfectly in order. want to rebalance the economy, but the Budget proceeded 507 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 508 with plans to cut £3.1 billion from capital allowances because of the overtures and the strong case made by and the investment allowance by 2013. The IFS has said others, and my own commitment to learners with those that difficulties, I have today initiated discussions with the “cutting capital allowances is not a good way to raise money Department for Education to see how we can move because they are an efficient way to promote investment”. with coherence to a position where all colleges benefit In addition, the Engineering Employers Federation has in the way my hon. Friend describes. said that the cuts “make the investment needed to rebalance the economy more Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): In fact, is the expensive”. scheme not typical of the way the Department for Labour’s Budget in March doubled the investment Business, Innovation and Skills has been rolled over by allowance for manufacturers, but this Government have the Treasury since the election? Can the Minister confirm cut that by 75%. We are all saying that we want to that we invested more than £2 billion in our FE colleges rebalance the economy, so how can the Minister justify and that the £50 million fund has been pilfered from his these cuts of £3 billion a year in our support for skills revenue budget and, therefore, represents a cut in manufacturers? future years, not an investment? He will want to be straight with the House about that after yesterday’s Mr Prisk: As I told the hon. Member for Glasgow debacle. North East (Mr Bain) earlier, the net balance is that manufacturing will be £250 million better off. That is Mr Hayes: Speaking of debacles, FE capital funding the point. The right hon. Gentleman refers to the annual under the hon. Gentleman’s Administration was indeed investment allowances but, even after these reforms a debacle, obliging Sir Andrew Foster to conclude that take effect, the vast majority of businesses—over 90%—will it was due to mismanagement. The hon. Gentleman still have all their investment costs covered by the knows that the FE capital that we have announced is in Association of International Accountants. The key point addition to the spend we will make in 2010-11 on is that the record of the Labour party is one in which capital in FE. It is time FE were given a new future, and manufacturing declined in 10 years of 11. We are changing it will be under this Government. that environment by taking the long-term approach. Is the hon. Gentleman proud of his record of investment Post Office Network down and jobs cut? Is he proud of that? Further Education Funding 6. Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): What plans he has to ensure the financial viability of the Post 5. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): Office network. [6683] What the eligibility criteria will be for further education colleges for funding from the recently announced 8. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What plans he has renewal and enhanced renewal grant schemes. [6682] to ensure the financial viability of the Post Office network. [6686] The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes): The additional investment The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, in further education college infrastructure that we Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): We have been announced on 24 May will be used to support further clear that we will ensure that post offices are allowed to education institutions to develop the best facilities possible offer a wide range of services in order to sustain the and will be prioritised to support colleges that have yet network. We are working with Post Office Ltd to develop to benefit significantly from the college building programme. new sources of revenue, including considering the case As I announced on 21 June, the Skills Funding Agency for a Post Office bank. has identified institutions that are eligible to apply for the additional funding and has issued guidance to those colleges on how they can apply for funding from both Simon Wright: I thank the Minister for his response. the renewal and enhanced renewal grants. He, like me, campaigned tooth and nail against the previous Government’s mass post office closure programme, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I warmly welcome the which proved so damaging to communities such as introduction of the funding, which will help colleges mine in Norwich South. Can my hon. Friend give an affected by the previous Government’s moratorium on assurance that over the next five years of this Government Learning and Skills Council funding. However, independent he will do everything he can to make sure there is no specialist colleges, such as the National Star college in further post office closure programme? my constituency, which train some of the most affected disabled people in the country, were transferred before Mr Davey: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the the election from my hon. Friend’s Department to the work he has done in his constituency campaigning Department for Education. Such colleges look set, therefore, against the closures proposed by the previous Government. to lose out on the opportunity to apply for capital This Government recognise the important social and funding for the second time in a row. Is there anything economic role played by post offices in communities my hon. Friend can do to deal with that unfair situation? throughout the United Kingdom. That is why we have secured £180 million in the next financial year for the Mr Hayes: My hon. Friend has been a champion of social network payment and why I give the House my National Star college, which does outstanding work for commitment that I shall work night and day to avoid the learners he describes. I share his concerns. He is the mass closures of post offices that we saw under the right about the transfer of responsibility. Nevertheless, previous Government. 509 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 510

Stuart Andrew: In addition, I handed in a petition to of small and medium-sized enterprises, which will further Downing street, with more than 5,000 names of people inform our assessment of the contribution of SMEs to who were trying to save four post offices in our constituency. the recovery. Sadly, it fell on deaf ears. Is my hon. Friend concerned that Camelot’s proposed plans to allow bill payments Richard Harrington: On Tuesday, I visited the Queens through its terminals may adversely affect the 7,500 post Road area of Watford—an area previously of retail offices that do not have such terminals? prominence—with Helen Lynch, a local community volunteer who is trying to revitalise the area. One of the Mr Davey: Again, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s main problems I saw was that many shops had shut work campaigning for his constituents and their post down and were shuttered up. When I have tried to get offices. I must say that Camelot’s proposal to provide people interested in taking up retail units in starting up commercial services through lottery terminals is still a small business, one of the main problems facing them subject to the regulatory approval of the National Lottery was the high level of business rates. I wonder whether Commission. If the commission consents to Camelot’s the Minister with responsibility for small business, my proposals, Post Office Ltd will carry out an assessment hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford of the impact on sub-post offices and we will take that (Mr Prisk), would agree to come to Watford with me so into account. that we could discuss the issue on the ground with some local business people and other interested parties. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I welcome the Minister’s commitment to the continuation of the Mr Vaizey: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and the provision of postal services in a wide range of communities. work that he does supporting small businesses in his Given the difficulty of maintaining counter and, indeed, constituency. I certainly think that my hon. Friend the banking services in our poorest communities, can he Minister with responsibility for small business would be give us an assurance that, in ensuring that such services delighted to visit them. We are looking at temporary can be maintained in such communities, public safety rate relief for small businesses. I know that it is a key and staff safety will be a paramount consideration in problem for them. finding suitable outlets? Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Will Mr Davey: The safety of staff and the public is the Minister do what he can to encourage and, through always a major consideration as we go forward in his own Department, support the venture capital investment modernising the network. I think the fact that the so needed for small manufacturing start-ups? Not only Government are committed to looking for new services is it a problem that the capital allowance has been and new ways of doing things, and to seeing whether we reduced, but access to the necessary credit and resources can increase the financial services that go through the is problematic. Will he conduct a review on venture network, will be widely welcomed. That will enable the capital availability? network to be more financially viable and therefore to Mr Vaizey: Under the Budget we have set up a new meet even better the concerns that the hon. Lady has enterprise capital fund, into which the Government voiced. have put £25 million. We are looking for additional private funding, but I certainly recognise the importance Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): of the venture capital industry and venture capital The Minister knows full well that one of the determining funding for small businesses. factors as to which post offices remained open during the two or three-year period when we lost 2,500 outlets John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) was the access criteria. Can he give the House an (LD): SMEs offer some of the best potential for future assurance today that we will not see those access criteria growth, but the biggest barrier to that is access to interfered or tampered with? finance—in particular, I am talking about the failure of the enterprise finance guarantee scheme, because of the Mr Davey: The hon. Gentleman can have my assurance Catch-22 that it is the banks that SMEs apply to that that I am working very hard with Post Office Ltd to say no. What can my hon. Friend do about that? make sure that we have the new services that will generate the revenue, so that we do not have to see the Mr Vaizey: We are expanding the enterprise finance mass closure programme that precipitated the access guarantee scheme by an additional £200 million, and criteria that the hon. Gentleman’s Government had to we understand that it will support some £700 million of introduce. extra bank lending, but I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman about the problem of securing bank lending. SMEs We are due to publish a Green Paper on business finance before the summer recess. I hope that that will 7. Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): What address many of the issues that are involved. assessment he has made of the contribution of small and medium-sized enterprises to economic recovery. Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): We on the Labour Benches [6685] welcome the extension of Labour’s successful enterprise finance guarantee that was announced in the Budget. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, We are questioning what has happened to the “major Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Vaizey): Small and loan guarantee scheme” referred to in the coalition medium-sized enterprises are the backbone of the economy agreement. Is that in fact the same thing as Labour’s and will make a vital contribution to the economic successful enterprise finance guarantee scheme, which recovery, through new start-up activity and through the Tories and the Liberals have now extended in their business growth. BIS is currently conducting a survey own Budget? 511 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 512

Mr Vaizey: In our approach, we want to look at all are taking. Of course, times are tough for students, but the issues in the round, so one of the key aims of the going to university and getting a degree remains a very Green Paper on business finance is to ensure holistic good investment in people’s long-term prospects for measures of business support. well-paid employment, and we will encourage universities Graduates (Employability) to focus on maximising the employability prospects of their students. 9. Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con): What plans his Department has to improve the FE Colleges (Capital Funding) employability of graduates. [6687] The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David 10. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): How many Willetts): We are committed to increasing employment further education colleges will receive capital funding by cutting the burden of national insurance on new from his Department in 2010-11. [6688] businesses employing new staff in areas such as Plymouth. We are cutting corporation tax over the next four years. The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation We are easing the burden of regulation. In addition, I and Skills (Mr John Hayes): One hundred and sixty have asked universities to provide public statements on colleges, including 28 sixth-form colleges, will receive what they do to promote employability, to encourage further education capital support totalling £407 million them to improve the job-readiness of their students and in 2010. In addition, a further £50 million will be to do better at getting their students into internships, invested to support those colleges that have yet to work experience and work. significantly benefit from the capital programme. We expect that extra resource to increase significantly the Oliver Colvile: I thank my right hon. Friend for that number of colleges that receive capital grant support, answer. Is he willing to meet me and the vice-chancellor with potentially 293 colleges receiving capital support of Plymouth university—the enterprise university—to in 2010-11. discuss ways in which it might make greater commercial use of its excellent reputation in marine science research Charlie Elphicke: Will funding be available for Hadlow as well? college’s plans for Betteshanger business park, near Deal? The business park was created by the regional Mr Willetts: I have met the vice-chancellor of the development agency, £18 million was spent, and it has university of Plymouth and corresponded with her been left empty. It would be great to bring it into use. when she praised the co-operation that she already had with my hon. Friend. Of course, I would be very happy Mr Hayes: It is essential that my hon. Friend and the to meet her. Those are exactly the kind of initiatives House understand that that resource is on top of the linking universities and business to promote economic existing investment programme, which is supporting a growth that the Government are backing. large number of current projects. That resource will Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): In October enable real investment, bringing genuine benefits to last year, the Minister said: learners and enabling colleges to plan for the future. I do not want to be unkind to Opposition Members, but “At a time when the jobs market for young people is tougher than ever, it is far better to find them a place in education than to it is important to recognise the disappointment that leave them languishing on the dole…whereas going to university colleges felt under the previous Government. The Foster will increase their qualifications and make them more employable report said that that was due to inadequate management in the long run.” information, poor monitoring, a poor long-term financial Will he confirm that that is no longer his view, in the strategy, meetings that led nowhere and monitoring that light of the withdrawal of 10,000 university places? was focused on the wrong things. Now, I do not want to be unkind, but that is not good enough. Mr Willetts: In that statement, I announced my commitment to 10,000 extra places at university, when Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Given the then Government were planning a cut in the number that we are where we are in respect of capital funding of places at university.We have delivered those 10,000 extra for colleges, will the Minister look very carefully at the places. There will be more places at university this year urgent need for increased capital expenditure in Stoke- than the then Government originally planned, and we on-Trent and at whether we can apply for the £5 million are proud of what we have achieved. to get investment in the Burslem and Shelton campuses? Our college has no reserves, and I need the Minister to Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): Given that the address that urgently. Office for Budget Responsibility has confirmed a rise in unemployment next year and that the Association of Graduate Recruiters estimates that vacancies for graduates Mr Hayes: I cannot make promises about individual will fall by 7%, what will the right hon. Gentleman do colleges, but I hear what the hon. Lady says—she makes to support graduates in what will be the toughest year a powerful case—and I will be happy to meet her with on record to get employment? my officials to discuss that matter further. Mr Willetts: I have here the forecast from the OBR, Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): and it is an endorsement of the measures that the May I welcome the Minister’s response and his plans to Government took in the Budget. It makes it absolutely give further education colleges more freedom? Will the clear that it expects total employment in the economy to new freedoms that he is offering extend to capital rise from 28.89 million now to 30.23 million in five projects, to make it easier for colleges to get alternative years’ time, as a result of the decisions that the Government sources of finance? 513 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 514

Mr Hayes: Indeed, and it is perhaps also important he raises the more basic question of bank lending. Of to let the House know that the Government money that course, there is an enormous problem, despite very high is available will leverage in other moneys. We want to approval rates through the banking system. I am discussing look at all kinds of ways in which colleges, enjoying the with the Chancellor how we can improve the supply of new freedoms that this Government are determined to capital, and there will be a paper before the summer on give them, can invest in their future. By the way, I know the different streams that we can energise to get capital that my hon. Friend is a great champion of further flowing into good companies. education. I add that because he deserves that plaudit. University-based Research Funding Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Will the Minister accept my invitation to come and visit the College of 12. Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): What North West London in Brent so that he can spread plans he has for the future funding of university-based some of his largesse there? research. [6691]

Mr Hayes: My largesse is legendary, and I can hardly The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David wait to visit. I would make one request—that there are Willetts): During 2010-11, the Department will provide tea and cakes when I arrive. £5.7 billion in funding for science and research, made up of £3.9 billion, principally to the research councils, Small Businesses (Finance) and £1.8 billion of research funding distributed by the Universities Funding Council in England. The previous 11. Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): What Government delayed the comprehensive spending review, recent steps he has taken to increase access to finance so budgets have not been set for future years. They will for small businesses. [6689] be decided this autumn as part of the spending review.

The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Ann McKechin: As the Minister will, I am sure, agree, Skills (Vince Cable): The coalition is committed to we enjoy a world-class research base in our universities ensuring the flow of credit to viable small and medium-sized here in the UK, but stability of funding is crucial to enterprises. The emergency Budget contained several that. I seek reassurance today that he will take that as a measures, including the enterprise finance guarantee, priority, especially for science research, which is so the growth capital fund and the enterprise capital fund. essential as a driver for our economy. Can he confirm However, unlike the previous Government, we are whether the VAT increase, which will affect universities addressing proactively problems in the banking sector to the extent of £200 million, will be taken into account? before rather than after they irreparably damage the economy. Mr Willetts: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I are committed to a strong research base in Mike Crockart: I thank my right hon. Friend for his Britain and in our universities. If the hon. Lady looks at response. Is he aware that, in my constituency, some the Budget, she will see that it contained, alongside the small businesses that have successfully managed to gain necessary VAT increase, imaginative proposals to try to access to finance are now being prevented from using help universities respond to that challenge. that, because a bank in which the taxpayer has a significant interest has scaled back its willingness to be exposed to Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): Is the Minister joint liability with small, family-run suppliers? Will he aware that the decisions that individuals take to come to agree to take time to meet me to discuss that? this country, leave this country and to stay and research in this country depend on how welcome they are made Vince Cable: I am very happy to meet my hon. Friend to feel here and how much funding is available over a to discuss that problem, which is happening all around long time scale? Will he commit to a 10-year prediction the country. As it happens, in his constituency, I believe of how much money is likely to be available, so that that nine companies have taken up the enterprise finance when we are out of the current hole people will know scheme—654 companies in Scotland have done likewise— that there is a rosy future ahead? and have drawn more than £1 million from it, but I recognise the problem. Actually, I think I met the chief Mr Willetts: It is quite a challenge to make a 10-year executive of the bank to which I believe he is referring prediction when we have just embarked on the last week. I am aware of the enormous frustration in comprehensive spending review for the next three years. many small-scale enterprises, and I will continue to I can say that we are committed to supporting research pursue the matter. in this country. The challenge we face is that we inherited from the previous Government a commitment to Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): What help will reductions of the Secretary of State give to those small and medium-sized “£600 million from higher education and science and research businesses that were hoping to take part in the building budgets”. of 700 schools, including one in Tibshelf in my constituency? Does he not understand that public sector cuts equals EU Free Trade Agreement (Peru/Colombia) private sector misery? 13. Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): If he will make Vince Cable: I think that the hon. Gentleman is representations to his EU counterparts to require that conflating two massively different issues. I have many the proposed EU free trade agreement with Peru and responsibilities—this is a very big Department—but Colombia undergoes ratification in each member state. school building, mercifully, is not one of them. However, [6692] 515 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 516

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Mr Willetts: We are working closely on this matter Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): This Parliament with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, and I will have a chance to examine properly the free trade think that we have reached a sensible way forward, agreement with Peru and Colombia. We expect that which she announced the other day. Of course, if there member states will need to ratify the agreement formally are individual problems affecting universities in the in 2011, but we will confirm that when the final texts are operation of these controls, we would be interested to issued later this year. hear from them, and will discuss them with our colleagues in the Home Office. Chris Bryant: I do not know whether it is because the Minister is a Lib Dem rather than a Conservative, but Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): The Minister that is a much better answer than I got to this question will be aware that the United States spends 2.9% of on Tuesday from the Minister for Europe. Can he gross domestic product on higher education. We spend ensure that that happens? There are other countries that 1.3%, which is below the OECD average. The previous would like to slip past the fact that Colombia has a poor Government took a brave decision on tuition fees, human rights record. There are more trade unionists although it was very unpopular with my hon. Friends. killed in that country than in all the other countries in May I invite the Minister to take equally unpopular the world put together, and an enormous problem with decisions on university finance, perhaps to introduce a displaced people. It is therefore vital that this House graduate tax or lift some of the charges that universities gets to choose whether to sign up to that free trade can make? We must get more money into our universities. agreement. Will he ensure that every other country signs up to that and, if necessary, use his veto? Mr Willetts: That is why, of course, the Browne review was set up on a cross-party basis—to look at Mr Davey: I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister these issues so that we can find a way forward that I for Europe gave an excellent reply to the hon. Gentleman. hope will command consent on both sides of the House In any event, I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, of Commons. because when he was Minister for Europe he negotiated one of the strongest ever human rights clauses in the FTA with Peru and Colombia, and he deserves the Science and Innovation Industry credit on behalf of many people in Colombia. He will know that legal advisers are now looking at the draft 15. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): What text and will have to decide whether it is known as a steps he is taking to support the UK’s science and mixed agreement or a union-only agreement. Our belief innovation industry. [6694] is that it will be a mixed agreement and therefore that not just the European Parliament but all Parliaments The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David will have to consider it. That will create the debate that Willetts): We will encourage universities to work with the hon. Gentleman seeks. businesses and enhance the effectiveness of the UK’s innovation system to support successful business innovation. The coalition agreement made it clear that Universities UK we are committed to refocusing the research and development tax credit on high-tech companies, small 14. Mr Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) firms and start-ups, as recommended by Sir James (LD): When he last met representatives of Universities Dyson. We are considering the other recommendations UK; and what matters were discussed at that meeting. in his report. [6693] George Freeman: May I say how nice it is to see such The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David a heavyweight business and finance team on the Front Willetts): I meet Universities UK on a regular basis. I Bench? I would also like to declare an interest as someone last met UUK representatives at their board meeting on who has had a career in business before coming to the 25 June when we discussed a range of issues facing House. Does the Minister agree that, in order to unlock higher education. With my right hon. Friend being the the significant economic potential of our science and rector of Glasgow university, and my right hon. Friend research base, instead of scattering money to the four the Secretary of State having been an economics lecturer corners of the kingdom, as the previous Government there, I am of course impressed by the excellence of that tended to do, we should focus our money on those institution. centres that have a demonstrable track record in commercialising technology, such as the excellent John Mr Kennedy: Well, that is very nice to hear. I hope Innes research centre and the Norwich research park on that the Minister will visit, and we will make him feel the edge of my constituency? extremely welcome. A guest lecture would not go amiss. Given the Government’s policy of a cap on immigration, Mr Willetts: The John Innes centre is a centre for the Minister will be aware that Universities UK and plant science, but that does not mean it was a planted many others across the sector are worried about its question. impact, as 10% of university staff across the UK are non-EU nationals, including 2,500 staff at the Scottish Mr Speaker: Order. May I gently remind the Minister, universities alone. What can he do with his colleagues in who always looks very comfortable at the Dispatch Box the Home Office to mitigate the impact of that policy but is usually looking the wrong way, that he needs to on the tertiary sector? look at, and address, the House as a whole? 517 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 518

Mr Willetts: I can assure the House that we are are crucial to our economy. We want to ensure that looking very carefully at the important issue of banks understand that. My right hon. Friend the Secretary concentrating research funding in the areas where it will of State and I meet regularly with the banks. If we find yield its greatest results. However, concentration means that they are clearly pushing such charges up, we will concentration of research in departments. It need not make them come to see us in the Department and be done university by university. ensure that they understand that we are not happy and that we will act to ensure that they change their behaviour. Businesses (Health and Safety) Topical Questions 17. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for T1. [6703] Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Work and Pensions on health and safety regulations Poole) (LD): If he will make a statement on his affecting businesses. [6697] departmental responsibilities.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): No discussions Skills (Vince Cable): My Department’s responsibilities have as yet taken place between Ministers and the include helping to drive growth, including by rebalancing Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in relation to the economy; building on the strengths of manufacturing, health and safety regulations affecting businesses. However, the knowledge industries, and the science and research Ministers met with Lord Young of Graffham on 1 July. base; helping businesses to grow by getting rid of excessive Lord Young is leading the Government’s review of regulation and ensuring that they can access credit; health and safety laws and regulation, their implementation, being open to trade and foreign investment; and the compensation culture and the associated litigation encouraging the development of a skilled and educated process. labour force. Annette Brooke: Does the Business Secretary share Ann Clwyd: I hope that the Minister’s bosses in the my concern that, with the ending of the cheque guarantee House can persuade him not to work night and day, as card scheme next year, the demise of the cheque will be he said earlier, because that sends a bad message to a lot hastened, affecting very small businesses and, of course, of people. Since the Health and Safety at Work, etc. the elderly? What action, if any, can he take in conjunction Act 1974, the number of fatal accidents at work has with his Treasury colleagues? fallen by 75%. Can he assure us that there will be no return to the bad old days? Vince Cable: I do share my hon. Friend’s concerns. As she knows, the decision originated last June with the Mr Davey: First, I am not going to apologise for Payments Council, which is an independent body. The working hard. My right hon. and hon. Friends are decision was based on the fact that there had been a working extremely hard. However, I can assure the right dramatic fall in cheque use, from 11 million a day in hon. Lady that the UK’s excellent health and safety 1990 to 3.5 million. However, the Government recognise standards will not be compromised as a result of this that there are large numbers of individuals, small companies review. It will focus on unnecessary bureaucracy. I wonder and charities for whom the cheque is an extremely whether she has spoken to businesses in her constituency—I important way of making transactions. The Payments have spoken to them in my constituency—who complain Council is an independent body, but we are trying to that, in order to comply with some of the complex ensure that it has alternatives in place, so that people are bureaucracy of some of the health and safety rules, they not greatly disadvantaged by the change. have to employ consultants. We need to ensure it is easier to comply, but that in no way should undermine Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): the importance of health and safety. May I ask the Secretary of State about an important area for consumers and businesses—the future of mobile Small Businesses (Finance) broadband internet? As he will know, it is growing exponentially, and is hugely important for consumers 18. Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): What recent and businesses. Will the Government therefore put an steps he has taken to increase access to finance for end to the uncertainty on the issue that has been created small businesses. [6698] since the election, and proceed with the statutory instrument on the planned future spectrum option, which can make The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation the sector grow in the UK? That measure, which was and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I refer my hon. Friend to put together by the Labour Government, would have the answer my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State ensured fair competition through caps on the amount gave to the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Mike of spectrum that could be bought by a single operator. Crockart). There has been great uncertainty on the issue since the election. Do the Government accept that it would be Jeremy Lefroy: Many small businesses, including those wrong to have that option in place in a way that in my constituency, face much higher facility fees, even squeezed out competition, and will they therefore set when they can get access to finance. Does the Minister out their plans? agree that banks should not use the current situation to hike up fees, and will he take this up with them? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Vaizey): We are looking Mr Prisk: Indeed, we already are. I want to stress and carefully at this issue, holding regular discussions with put clearly on the record the fact that we are not willing the mobile phone operators and involving other simply to allow the situation to continue. Small businesses Departments and regulators. The right hon. Gentleman 519 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 520 is quite right. Getting the issue sorted is an absolute T4. [6707] Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) priority for us, and we hope to make an announcement (Lab): Does the Secretary of State appreciate the real before the end of the summer recess. need of ports such as Hull to upgrade to cope with green energy production? Is the £60 million promised T2. [6704] Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Following by the Labour Government still on offer, or does he the excellent plans for apprenticeships, is my hon. dismiss it as a cynical Labour election ploy, as he has Friend the Minister aware that the local apprenticeship done with Sheffield Forgemasters? scheme run by Essex county council and Harlow college has agreed to place an Essex apprentice in my Vince Cable: As the hon. Gentleman knows, there office from October? Will he also look into boosting was an announcement in the Budget on commercial apprentices in Whitehall and Westminster, and through rates, which was a big issue for those ports. We are Government contracts? anxious to help the development of green investment and, as he will know, we are studying a proposal for the The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation green investment bank, which could well become a and Skills (Mr John Hayes): My hon. Friend has been a vehicle for good projects in that sector. champion of apprenticeships since he arrived in the House and before. I congratulate him on his initiative in T5. [6708] Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I was that respect. He will know that this Government have listening carefully to the Minister’s earlier response to already transferred £150 million into the apprenticeship the question on penalty charges applied to personal budget to create 50,000 more apprenticeships. I can bank account holders who occasionally stray into announce today that one of them will be joining my unauthorised overdraft. Bearing in mind the Supreme office in Whitehall, and I invite other Ministers to do Court’s decision last year, which has resulted in a very the same. unsatisfactory situation, does the Department intend to review the situation and, indeed, intervene to protect Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Can those personal account holders who find themselves in the Secretary of State clear up the confusion on the difficulty? future of regional development agencies that has arisen out of conflicting statements? On the one hand, there is Vince Cable: There certainly was a problem of serious an apparent open-mindedness on the part of the Secretary overcharging, and it was pursued through the courts by of State; on the other, his counterpart in the Department the Office of Fair Trading. I am going to meet the for Communities and Local Government has taken a director general of fair trading very soon, and I shall try more hard-line and ideological approach. If there is a to establish whether any action needs to be taken by the desire in any region, including the west midlands, for Department, as opposed to through the legal channels the retention of a strong regional structure—albeit with that have been pursued so far. sub-regional arrangements, including local employment partnerships—will the Secretary of State be open to the Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab): What assessment retention of a strong regional development agency there? has been made of the impact of front-line services in local citizens advice bureaux, such as my own in Makerfield, Vince Cable: There is absolutely no conflict, dispute of the £2.5 million cut to Citizens Advice? or ideological perspective involved in this at all. We have made it clear that all the RDAs will be replaced by Mr Davey: I have met representatives of Citizens local enterprise partnerships. They will have a change in Advice England and Citizens Advice Scotland to discuss function from the current RDAs. We have also made it any difficulties they might have in implementing in-year clear that if there is a will in a region to operate on a cuts, as I have with all partner organisations of the regional basis, a regional structure can emerge. The Department. They have given me their assurance that Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for they are managing, and they are working with my Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), will shortly produce officials to try to ensure that those cuts can be made a White Paper setting out how the regional process will without hitting the front line in the way that the hon. develop. Lady describes.

T3. [6705] Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I T6. [6709] Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): have been made aware recently of a number of cases of Learners at colleges across England such as Great academic visitors coming to the UK, often for only a Yarmouth college have contributed something like few days, and being denied visas for their entry. Will the £28 billion to our economy over the past 15 years. Does Minister meet the Home Secretary to work out a new the Minister agree that those colleges need the support protocol for treating these people? Will he also meet me of our Government? What freedoms can we give them to talk through the issue, so that we can ensure that the to ensure that they develop even further in the future? reputation of British educational research is supported and not weakened? Mr Hayes: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. He is right to raise that issue in those terms, because it is The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David through freedom that colleges will be able to innovate Willetts): My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and excel. It is vital that colleges become more responsive and I are both aware of the importance of these academic to learner demand and to employers. That is why I have exchanges and visits. If there are any particular operational already announced certain important freedoms that problems that my hon. Friend has encountered, I would they want and that were denied to them by the Labour be very happy to meet him to discuss them. Government. 521 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 522

Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Will the Minister I think that there is cross-party consensus that major assure me that in the lifetime of this Parliament he will infrastructure projects such as high-speed rail and new not cut the budget of a vital part of his Department, the nuclear and renewable energy schemes are essential not companies investigations branch, which does vital work only for the future of our economy but for the greening to protect front-line services and consumers? of the economy. However, they often attract local opposition. There is huge concern within the business Mr Davey: All partner organisations and all parts of community about the proposed abolition of the Government have to look very closely at their budgets Infrastructure Planning Commission. What representations as we approach the comprehensive spending review. We is the Minister making to ensure that the successor will ensure that key parts of the Department, which I planning regime does not allow nimbyism, masquerading often refer to as “the plumbing”—the parts that uphold as local democracy, to strangle those schemes at birth? company law and competition policy and the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service, for example—get Mr Prisk: What we are changing is the quango that the resources they need, as they affect key areas of our will report on the final decision. We are not changing economy. the streamlined system that will sit behind it—we think it is good; for business and for infrastructure—but we do think it important that when a final decision is made Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): May I on a major infrastructure programme, it is made by a say that the announced 50,000 new apprenticeships are Minister standing at this Dispatch Box who is accountable hugely welcome in my constituency, as Rossendale and to this House. I think that is an important principle; it Darwen has many young people working in the will not undermine business investment and it is good manufacturing sector? Given that an apprenticeship for democracy. should be only the start of a journey of lifelong learning, what steps have been taken to encourage those who T7. [6710] Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Last week, I have completed an apprenticeship to go on to university? joined students at Rugby high school in my constituency, who were taking part in a business Mr Hayes: My hon. Friend makes an important partnership event, in which they learned the principles point about progression. It is important to have a of running a business. Does the Minister agree that it is ladder of training opportunity, going from re-engagement vital to encourage and support such entrepreneurs of of those who have been disengaged from education, the future? training and employment through to apprenticeships, and then to higher level skills, too. We will certainly do Mr Willetts: We are strongly committed to enterprise that. education. People can learn how to be enterprising and learn the skills necessary to run a business. We are Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): indeed committed to supporting such initiatives. Will the Secretary of State confirm whether he will go Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): The Secretary of ahead with previous plans to introduce financial incentives State will be aware that of all the important things for of about £5,000 for people buying new electric vehicles? small businesses, the most important of all is that people have enough money to buy their products. In Vince Cable: No, I cannot confirm that because the that light, what impact does he think the increase in decision is still awaited, and it lies with the Department VAT will have, particularly on the retail sector, which for Transport. Only last week, I attended a major series relies so much on people having the money to purchase of events with the automotive industry, which impressed products? on me the importance of this decision in order to promote electric power. I fully understand the rationale Vince Cable: The Budget made it very clear that the behind it, but I cannot confirm the decision today. value added tax increase is part of an overall process of reducing our enormous deficit, and it will lead to the Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): The university campus strengthening of the British economy in due course. at Burnley college has developed what it believes to be Those who criticise the VAT increase have to explain the most advanced wind turbine in the world. The whether they are recommending that we make even previous Government were asked to fund further research deeper cuts in public spending instead. on it, which they refused, so will the Minister visit this project and look at the possibility of helping to develop T8. [6711] Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): Will it further? the Secretary of State meet a group of seaside MPs whose constituencies face very specific challenges both in job creation and in new business start-ups? Could we The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David further discuss how to boost domestic tourism, which Willetts): I always enjoy visiting universities, especially plays such an important part in the economy of my when they have enterprising ideas that bring forward South Thanet constituency? business opportunities, so I am happy to accept my hon. Friend’s invitation. Mr Prisk: The hon. Lady, if I may say so, is a very good advocate—possibly even a champion—of tourism Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East and so forth. [Interruption.] My largesse does not go Cleveland) (Lab): Will the Secretary of State confirm quite that far. I would be more than happy to meet my what communication he or his Cabinet colleagues have hon. Friend and her colleagues. It is important to had with Corus and Tata Steel Europe, since the recognise some of the special problems in particular announcement of the departure of the coalition locations, and start-ups are crucial in that respect. Government’s fiscal friend, Kirby Adams? 523 Oral Answers8 JULY 2010 Oral Answers 524

Vince Cable: I met Dr Ratan Tata when he came and celebrates success; there was cross-party agreement through London. We have not had detailed discussions about that. I will support the event in his constituency on the future of the steel project—we remember the and WorldSkills more generally. consequences of the closure on Teesside—but we support the continuation of training for those redundant workers Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): who require it and have not found their own way On a point of order, Mr Speaker. following redundancy. Mr Speaker: Order. The answer to the right hon. Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): The Minister Gentleman is that points of order follow statements. may be aware that the selections for the UK WorldSkills [Interruption.] Order. Somebody chuntered from a squad are due to take place in anticipation of the sedentary position that there was a point of order 60th WorldSkills competition, held in London next earlier. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) year. One of the selection events is taking place in my is a considerable authority on these matters and knows constituency at the excellent North Warwickshire and perfectly well—it is helpful for me to explain this to the Hinckley college during November. Will the Minister House—that one circumstance in which a point of consider accompanying me on a visit to the college order can come before a statement is when, in respect of during that week, to see the excellent work that the a particular question, a Member is so dissatisfied with students are doing? the answer that he or she signals an intention to raise the matter on the Adjournment. I explain that both for the Mr Hayes: I can see that I will be busy travelling the benefit of the House and for those outside who are whole country. Of course I will—WorldSkills matters unaware of such matters. 525 8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 526

Business of the House training” that he said shadow Ministers had been given in order for them to be able to move quickly to implement 11.31 am some of the policies in the coalition agreement. I think that that “serious training” explains the speed with Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab): Will which the Thatcherite cuts in public service are being the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business? implemented. However, the interview does not tell us whether the duties of the Leader of the House include The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George arranging training for Liberal Democrat Ministers enabling Young): The business for the week commencing 12 July them, for instance, to explain during next week’s debate will include: on the police grant report how cutting £125 million MONDAY 12 JULY—Proceedings on the Finance Bill from this year’s policing budget will not affect police (Day 1). numbers—especially given that the Liberal Democrat TUESDAY 13 JULY—Proceedings on the Finance Bill manifesto stated that there would be 3,000 extra police (Day 2). on the streets. WEDNESDAY 14 JULY—Motion relating to Police Grant Will the Leader of the House ensure that the Minister Report, followed by motion to approve a Statutory for Police explains in next week’s debate what statistics Instrument relating to the draft Terrorism Act 2006 the Prime Minister was using yesterday when he said (Disapplication of Section 25) Order 2010, followed by that violent crime had doubled, given that the UK motion to approve a European Document relating to Statistics Authority has said that it is misleading the the European External Action Service. public to use anything other than the British crime survey as a measure of long-term crime trends? The THURSDAY 15 JULY—Proceedings on the Finance Bill (Day 3). survey shows that, in fact, there has been a 41% reduction in violent crime since 1997. The provisional business for the week commencing 19 July will include: May I also ask whether the “serious training” referred to by the Leader of the House involves training in how MONDAY 19 JULY—Second Reading of the Academies to make apologies? If so, I am afraid that the Education Bill [Lords]. Secretary needs a refresher course. On Monday, he At 10 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding released his first list of schools that would no longer be estimates. refurbished or rebuilt. He released that list to the media. TUESDAY 20 JULY—Proceedings on the Consolidated By Tuesday afternoon he had released a third list. My Fund (Appropriation) Bill, followed by proceedings on hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) the Finance Bill (Day 4), followed by business nominated raised the matter with you, Mr Speaker, and last night by the Backbench Business Committee. the Education Secretary was forced to come to the WEDNESDAY 21 JULY—Proceedings on the Academies House to apologise. He arrived with a fourth list, but Bill [Lords] (Day 1). said he “would be grateful if hon. Members would ensure that any THURSDAY 22 JULY—Proceedings on the Academies Bill [Lords] (Day 2). information they had that pointed to inaccuracies was put to me”.—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 492.] I should also like to inform the House that the Naturally, Labour Members rose to the challenge and business in Westminster Hall for 15 July will be: pointed out that Monkseaton high school in Tynemouth, THURSDAY 15 JULY—A debate entitled “Reform of the which was listed as having been cancelled, had in fact Law of Defamation”. been opened last year, and had been visited by the one and only right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) Ms Winterton: May I thank the Leader of the House when he launched the Conservative local election campaign. for the business and say how pleased we are to have him That is completely chaotic, and suggests a hurried and back, knowing his commitment to protecting the rights unreliable process. of Members of the House? Although he seems increasingly isolated in that quest, he remains our leading man. I use Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Will the that term because, as it happens, it is exactly how he was right hon. Lady give way? described by The House Magazine, in a marvellous account of his rise to power and his duties as Leader of the House. It includes some fascinating reminiscences Ms Winterton: If the hon. Gentleman has any suggestions about the Thatcher years. For example, he says: for the Secretary of State, I am sure that the Secretary of State will listen to them. “When we won power in 1979 we were less prepared than today.” Will the Leader of the House ask the Education Secretary to come to the House and, as a minimum, Mr Speaker: Order. This is absolutely fascinating publish the criteria that were used to decide which stuff, but it suffers from the notable disadvantage that it school building projects would be cancelled, so that bears absolutely no relation whatever to the business of parents and teachers can see for themselves whether next week or the week after. I know that the right hon. their school building programme has indeed been cancelled Lady, who is a dextrous performer, will now speedily by any kind of reasonable and fair process? That is a move on to matters of current interest, namely the minimum; but the fact is that the Education Secretary business of the House next week and the week after. should simply withdraw the list altogether, and think again about destroying the hopes and aspirations of at Ms Winterton: I certainly will, Mr Speaker. One of least 700 communities around the country. Surely it is the matters on which I wanted to question the Leader of obvious that this whole process has become discredited, the House with reference to his duties was the “serious as has the Education Secretary himself—not least because 527 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 528 he keeps telling the House that funding had not been We had a debate on unemployment yesterday, and agreed for these schools. He continued to say that in the the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, House even after the permanent secretary had issued a my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell letter saying that it was categorically not the case. (Chris Grayling), pointed out that over the next few Finally, last week I asked the Deputy Leader of the years there will be an increase of 1.5 million in the House to place in the Library the Treasury paper on the number of people working. 1.3 million people who were going to be thrown out of work because of the Budget. Neither that nor the advice Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): On Monday given to the former coalition Chief Secretary on the the House adjourned at 10.49 pm, on Tuesday at 2.48 am future jobs fund has appeared. That meant that we had the following morning and on Wednesday at 8.13 pm. an Opposition day debate yesterday on jobs and That is very good for holding the Government to account, unemployment with those two crucial documents withheld but for Members who, because of the Independent from us. How can the Leader of the House possibly Parliamentary Standards Authority, have up to a two-hour justify that when the coalition agreement specifically commute home, it is not sustainable. May we have a refers to openness and transparency in government? statement next week on whether IPSA has broken Will he now place these documents in the Library as a parliamentary privilege by restricting the ability of some matter of urgency? hon. Members to carry out their duties? Sir George Young: On the narrow issue of privilege, Sir George Young: I am grateful to the right hon. that is a matter for Mr Speaker. My hon. Friend will Lady for her questions, and I hope that the House know the procedure that needs to be gone through if magazine might one day carry an article entitled “Leading anyone asserted there had been a breach of privilege, lady”, in which she features. I got on very well with but may I also say the following to my hon. Friend? Lady Thatcher—so well that she appointed me to her Earlier this week for the first time we had a seriously Administration not once, but twice. late-night sitting against the background of the new On the police grant order, there will still be an increase constraints imposed on the House by IPSA. I am aware in the resources available to the police even after that that a large number of hon. Members were seriously order, which will be debated next Wednesday. The right inconvenienced by what happened, and that is something hon. Lady knows full well the reason for that order: in that I and others propose to pursue in a dialogue with the words of the Labour Chief Secretary, “There is no IPSA. money left.” On crime, it is important that the actual crimes Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): May we have a debate in recorded by the police are used alongside the statistical Government time on capital allocations following the analysis of the British crime survey. Indeed, that was Building Schools for the Future announcements, and the measure most often used by Labour Members when possibly for two days, given how many hon. Members they criticised our record in government. We have quoted would wish to raise issues relating to their local schools? the only statistics that are available on recorded crime The list that was published yesterday still contains across the period, but I can tell the right hon. Lady that numerous errors in the Greenwich schools listed. A the Home Secretary has written to the shadow Home “Broadoak” school is listed as “Unaffected”—that is Secretary stating that we are reviewing how crime statistics hardly surprising, given that it does not exist. The should be collected and published in future, and we will “University Technical College” is linked with Eltham make further announcements in due course. Hill school, but Eltham Hill school is also listed separately. On the subject of apologies, both the Home Secretary The Business Academy Bexley, which opened six years and the Education Secretary have had the decency to ago, the St Paul’s academy, which opened in January, come to this House and apologise when things have and Charlton special school, which opened in gone wrong. We have had no apology from the Labour September 2008, are also all on this list. What criteria Benches, however, for one in five young people being were used to produce this list? It is arbitrary. What unemployed, and we have had no apology for Labour account has been taken of the capital needs that will selling the gold at the lowest level for some 20 years, or have to be met, such as essential repairs and improvements for leaving us with the worst budget deficit in Europe. to electrics? If we do not have a debate, how can we get to the detail of what has produced this list? The right hon. Lady will have seen the question the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) asked about Sir George Young: I will of course raise with the the school list, to which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education the hon. Gentleman’s Education Secretary replied: specific points about the accuracy of the list, but that “It is my belief that the list we have placed in the Vote Office is contrasts with the need for the list. That need was set accurate.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; Vol. 513, c. 492.] out in some detail on Monday, and Labour Members He went on to say that he understood that double-checking have not explained in any way where they would have was now taking place within the Department. My right found the resources necessary if they had wanted to go hon. Friend also set out the criteria used to make the ahead with the BSF programme. decisions at some length in his statement on Monday, and he was questioned about them for an hour and a Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): Will the Leader quarter. The right hon. Lady should remember, however, of the House find time for us to debate the appalling that the reason for the statement was the over-commitment standards of commuter travel for many rail travellers in of resources by the outgoing Secretary of State, who my constituency? Will he allow us to have the chance to acted irresponsibly by over-relying on end-year flexibility press for wider local consultation given the upcoming when the resources simply were not there. local franchises? 529 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 530

Sir George Young: My hon. Friend makes a forceful suffering most for the inequity and incompetence of the case for a debate, and I see the Chairman of the Secretary of State are our children? Our children are Backbench Business Committee in her place. May I this country’s future, so it behoves this Government to also say to my hon. Friend that he will have the opportunity afford proper time to this House to examine whether to raise the matter with Transport Ministers at Transport there is indeed a Building Schools for the Future questions on 22 July? programme, because the Secretary of State has markedly failed to convince any of us. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): The right hon. Gentleman is an experienced Member Sir George Young: I do not agree with the assertion at and he has been a Select Committee Chairman. Can he the beginning of the hon. Lady’s question. My right explain to the House what the delay has been in getting hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education set out the right order before us in respect of the Select Committee very clearly in his statement on Monday the criteria that on Science and Technology? I understand that there is we used for deciding which projects would go ahead still a Conservative vacancy, and at least one Conservative and which would not. He then answered questions for Member from the new intake has come to me to ask an hour and a quarter on those criteria. However, the how to get on the Committee. I directed him to the hon. Lady will have a further opportunity next Monday, Whips. Can the Leader of the House ensure that the in Education questions, to pursue the matter. Committee is established as quickly as possible, so that we can have our first meeting next Wednesday? Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): May we have a debate on empty property business rates? In my constituency, Sir George Young: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman Asda, having been denied building permission more for that, and I congratulate him on his post as Chairman than 10 years ago, has allowed the property to go to of that Committee. If he looks at today’s Order Paper, rack and ruin. It is a total eyesore for local residents, yet he will see that a large number of Select Committees the Revenue apparently, I am told, owes Asda £2 million have been nominated by the Committee of Selection. in back rates that Asda is allowed to claw back. That However, it was not able yesterday to make progress surely cannot be right. May we have a debate on that, with five or six Committees. I have been in touch with please? the Chairman of the Committee of Selection, and I understand that he hopes to make very swift progress Sir George Young: I understand the anxiety that the with the remaining Committees. I am sure that he will hon. Lady expresses. On 15 July, there will be Communities take on board the very helpful suggestion that the hon. and Local Government questions and she will have an Gentleman has made about a vacancy. opportunity to make her point to Ministers.

Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I very much welcome Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): the coalition Government and think they stand a good This morning, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, chance of putting right some of the mistakes of the the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), previous Government. I am a great believer in evidence- slipped out that the merchant shipping regulations on based policy making. It seems to me that the Deputy ship-to-ship transfers of oil carried as cargo will be Prime Minister often asserts the “great demand” for delayed until next year following lobbying by Lib Dem constitutional change, so could we have a debate about and Tory MPs. This announcement has been met with the evidence base for those statements so that we can horror by organisations in Scotland such as the Royal examine the root of them? Society for the Protection of Birds, Fife council and communities on both sides of the Forth. Will the Leader Sir George Young: Looking ahead, I have to say that of the House find time for an urgent debate in this the House will be doing very little but debate constitutional Chamber or in Westminster Hall next week or the week change in the weeks ahead. There will be a debate on after so that Members have an opportunity properly to the Report stage of the Bill to which my hon. Friend debate this matter rather than having it simply slipped has alluded, and there will be ample opportunity to out on a Thursday? debate constitutional change and reform in the weeks ahead. I hope that I have correctly understood his Sir George Young: I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. question. On 22 July, there will be Transport questions, but in the meantime I shall draw his anxiety to the attention of my Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport May we have an urgent debate—I stress the need for it and get a response. to be urgent—on Building Schools for the Future? Following on from the question posed by the hon. Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): This week, Toyota Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie) on the necessity announced 750 job losses at its plant in Burnaston. for evidence-based decisions, may I say that what has That will have a devastating impact on families in my become increasingly clear is that the Secretary of State constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Education has never presented to this House, either for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler). I have already in debate on in a statement, any kind of proof that his met my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for decisions were based on evidence, either of the economic Work and Pensions to discuss what we can do to get need or of the educational need? Absolutely no detail those people back into work, but given that we have has been provided, so one is left with the feeling that seen a 10% decrease in the output of manufacturing there is no Building Schools for the Future programme. since 1997 and given that that decline has been three This has caused enormous disquiet across the whole times faster than the decline under the Conservative country, not least in my constituency. May I just point Government of the 1980s, may we have an urgent out to the Leader of the House that the people who are debate on support for the manufacturing industries? 531 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 532

Sir George Young: We shall debate the Finance Bill in Sir George Young: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. the coming week, but I hope that my hon. Friend will Whether our constituents should have to go through us agree that, against the background of the very disappointing to have access to the ombudsman or whether they news that he has outlined, some of the measures in the should have direct access has been an issue for some Budget are designed to help manufacturing industry, time. There is a Select Committee of this House that has such as the reduction in corporation tax over the next responsibility for the ombudsman. Before I opine, it few years, which is designed to promote inward investment. would be very helpful if the Public Administration I hope that those policies will result in a turnaround in Committee, which is the right Committee, were to have the unemployment position in his constituency. another look at this and see whether we need to retain the MP filter. Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House press the Health Secretary Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): and other Ministers responsible to come to the House Despite the record amount of money spent on our and create a debate on the strategy to deal with obesity national health service in recent years, there are wards in this country? This is not just a question for England, in Crewe and Nantwich where the life expectancy of because when I go around my constituency I am shocked men and women is still up to 10 years less than in by the amount of obesity that I see. We are all being neighbouring wards. May we have a debate on the issue abandoned by the Health Secretary and BIS, because of health inequalities so that these unacceptable disparities they will not ban trans fats from processed food. They can be discussed and debated? appear to have abandoned us to the processed food industry by abandoning the strategy against obesity in England. It is a very important matter because it is Sir George Young: My hon. Friend has brought to the damaging the health of our constituents’ children and attention of the House a very important issue, namely bringing early death to our constituents. the very wide discrepancies in life expectancy according to where people live and their socio-economic background, Sir George Young: Obesity is an important issue, and which this Government want to reduce. I am not although, happily, it is not one that either the hon. sure whether I can find time for a debate in the near Gentleman or I would appear to suffer from. My right future, but the Chair of the newly appointed Backbench hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has made Business Committee will have heard his plea. I will raise it clear that, where possible, he wants to work with the the issue with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of industry rather than against it. That is the background State for Health and see whether we can get a response to the announcements that he has just made. I agree for my hon. Friend. with the hon. Gentleman, however, that this is an issue that, if possible, we should find time to debate. If we Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I was recently cannot, there will be an opportunity to raise it during approached by the chamber of commerce in my Health questions. constituency and told it was expecting a loss of 17,000 construction jobs as a result of public sector cuts. That Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I hope that was before what happened with BSF. May we have an I have not been called with reference to the last question, urgent debate on the loss of public sector construction Mr Speaker. jobs as a result of what has happened with BSF? The Leader of the House worked his magic when asked for a full day’s debate on the strategic defence and Sir George Young: I am sure the hon. Lady knows security review and supplied one about a week later. that under the last Administration there was a forecast Will he work his magic again, following yesterday’s reduction in public sector jobs. So far as employment is statement on Afghanistan, and arrange a full day’s concerned, as I said a moment ago we had a debate debate on strategy in Afghanistan? Will he have a word about this yesterday and the Minister of State, Department with his counterparts in the other place, where there are for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member many experts on this subject, so that they too might for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), pointed out that express their views on this extremely important subject? it was forecast that there would be an increase of Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It 1.5 million jobs over the next few years. I hope that is the Government’s intention that the House should be some of those will be in the construction industry. In kept regularly up to date on the position in Afghanistan the first statement that we made on public expenditure, and, as he knows, there was a statement by the Secretary we put back in a sum of money for social housing. of State for Defence yesterday. It is our intention to Housing is an important ingredient in our programme. carry on with that process and to have statements and, I hope that as the economy recovers there will be more where appropriate, debates. I am sure that my colleagues work in the construction industry, building the houses in the other place will have heard my hon. Friend’s that our constituents need. request for business there—that is happily a responsibility that does not currently rest with me. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Following the excellent comments by our right hon. Friend the Secretary of Mr Phil Woolas (Oldham East and Saddleworth) State for Communities and Local Government about (Lab): The right hon. Gentleman may have had time to the need to abolish council non-jobs, may I urge my read the Law Commission report on the reform of right hon. Friend to grant a debate on this subject so ombudsmen. Will he tell the House his view of the MP that we can all give our suggestions as to which politically filter, whereby referrals are made to the parliamentary correct council non-jobs should be abolished? Will he ombudsman only through Members of Parliament? ensure that it is a full day’s debate, because I think that Does he support that situation? he will find that there are plenty of them? 533 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 534

Sir George Young: It would be very sad if we had to Sir George Young: That issue was covered yesterday wait for a full day’s debate before my hon. Friend could to some extent. It was precisely to redress the imbalance supply the House with his list of jobs that could be between north and south that we set up a £1 billion reduced. My hon. Friend is an ingenious person and I regional development fund. I hope that the hon. Lady am sure he will find an outlet for the long list that he will encourage her constituents to apply for resources apparently has detailing how money might be saved. under that fund.

John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Following Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Does my right my hon. Friends’ questions, may I draw the Leader of hon. Friend agree that although the development of the House’s attention to early-day motion 399 in my high-speed rail services is vital for our national economy, name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for depending on which route is chosen, there will be a Walthamstow (Stella Creasy)? significant impact on many local communities, including [That this House condemns the Government’s decision Hints, Weeford and Drayton Bassett in my constituency? to cancel the Building Schools for the Future (BSF) Does he agree that we should discuss in the House the programme for a number of schools in the London Borough best mechanism, depending on the method and route of Waltham Forest; notes that parents, pupils, governors, chosen, by which to maximise the use of existing teachers and other staff have often worked hard and infrastructure and brownfield sites to minimise the impact valiantly under difficult conditions over many years; further on green spaces? notes that the BSF programme promised new buildings and vastly improved conditions for staff and students; and Sir George Young: As a former Secretary of State for considers that this announcement will be a serious setback Transport with a real commitment to the railways, I for education in Waltham Forest.] agree that where it is practical so to do we should use Aside from the issue of the veracity of the existing track and routes rather than new ones. Where a announcements in the various lists that have been released, new route is necessary, there should be the fullest another problem is the fact that this matter will affect consultation before that route is finally decided on. some of the poorest and relatively poorest communities in Britain who have been looking forward to having new Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): Will the Leader of school buildings for many decades and who are now the House ensure that there is adequate time in the going to be let down. Rather than just receiving a debates on the Academies Bill to discuss the way in statement from the Secretary of State for Education, we which the Secretary of State for Education proposes to really need a full day’s debate on this. shower money on so-called free schools while drastically cutting money to schools in Sandwell, particularly Sir George Young: It is always open to the Opposition Perryfields and Bristnall Hall in my constituency? There to use one of their Opposition days for a debate on this is also a question mark over Shireland. Is that proposal subject, but I repeat that the reason for Monday’s not an insult to the children, teachers and communities statement was that, as the former Chief Secretary said, concerned and is it not a gross misdirection of resources? there is no money left and steps had to be taken to restore confidence in the public finances. Sir George Young: I would not describe the academies programme in exactly the terms used by the right hon. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Will the Leader of Gentleman. The answer to his question is yes, there will the House find time for a debate on the Tenant Services be lots of time during the debate on the Academies Bill Authority? Councillor Lee Dangerfield, the chairman for him to make his case and for my right hon. Friend of housing in my constituency, has received a letter the Secretary of State robustly to reject it. from the TSA asking him to waste more money on needless inspection regimes and plans costing £70,000. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Will the Leader Is that not an obscene waste of taxpayers’ money when of the House please find time for a debate on the we need to cut our cloth according to the situation and unfairness arising from the fact that Members of Parliament give Harlow taxpayers value for money? who represent constituencies in Scotland can vote on matters such as education and schools that affect my Sir George Young: My hon. Friend might know that constituents, but that I and other Members who represent the role and functions of the TSA and the framework seats in England have no reciprocal right to vote on for social housing regulation are being reviewed. The matters affecting education in Scotland? review is informed by our commitment to reduce the number and cost of quangos and to cut unnecessary Sir George Young: My hon. Friend might be familiar regulation and inspection, and it will conclude as quickly with a document that was published in the last Parliament as possible. by the Democracy Taskforce, of which I was a member, which addressed the West Lothian question. If he looks Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): at the coalition agreement, he will see that our proposal The Leader of the House might not have had time to to deal with this anomaly is to set up a commission to read the report by the independent Work Foundation look into the issue and to report back with proposals. on the geography of the recovery and on coalition policies, but it clearly says that although current coalition Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Following on policies might lead to some recovery in the south and in from questions regarding Building Schools for the Future, the services sector, they will not support job creation in is the Leader of the House aware that the list referred to the regions. Can we have an urgent debate on how job the fact that Tibshelf school in my constituency would creation in the regions is to be supported and on what not go ahead but did not mention that Deincourt the coalition’s policies for that should be? school in the neighbouring constituency of North East 535 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 536

Derbyshire is due to be closed because the Tibshelf Sir George Young: I agree that protecting the most school was expected to go ahead? So, two constituencies vulnerable is an important objective for any Government. are involved, there were plans for a Deincourt school That is why, in the Budget, we took 800,000 people out replacement and the net result is that the ripples are still of tax and increased the rate of capital gains tax and travelling as far as the Tory county council. What are that is why our proposals are designed specifically to the Government going to do about this? When are they protect the most vulnerable from the measures that are going to sort it out? Why can Tibshelf not have that necessary in the public interest. school? Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): Sir George Young: I hope that the hon. Gentleman May I earnestly press the Leader of the House on the will be in his place on Monday for Education questions need for an urgent debate on the impact of the BSF cuts when he can ask that precise question. that were announced on Monday? I am not sure that he is fully aware of the concern that is being expressed in Mr Skinner: I’ll be there. constituencies such as mine about the impact of these dreadful cuts not only on our young people but on local Sir George Young: I will ensure that my right hon. construction jobs in an area that greatly needs employment. Friend the Secretary of State is ready for him. Sir George Young: I am well aware of the concern, Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): because I sat through the exchange, as I am sure she did, There has been considerable speculation in recent days at 7.15 pm yesterday when colleagues made their views that the Government intend to bring forward legislation known and I have seen the Hansard report of the to amend the civil service compensation scheme. Given statement on Monday afternoon. I would be misleading the scale of cuts already envisaged, this is causing her if I said that I could find time for a debate on this considerable additional anxiety to those who work in issue. I have outlined the business from now almost our public services. Will the Leader of the House arrange until the House rises and I am not sure that I can find for Cabinet Office Ministers to come quickly to the time for a debate on it. House and set out precisely what the Government intend?

Sir George Young: The answer is yes, because we will Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): A couple of be introducing legislation to amend the civil service weeks ago, when I asked the Leader of the House for a compensation scheme. In doing so, we will be taking debate on the use of extended travel money by Opposition forward policies of the outgoing Government that were Front-Bench spokespersons, he told me that they should unable to proceed because, on the application of the rely on Short money. The Library has kindly provided Public and Commercial Services Union, the High Court some figures from the last Parliament that show the quashed the details of the scheme that was going forward. average amount per Member for extended travel was We need legislation to get around that. Our objectives £296 and the average per Conservative shadow Cabinet are not wholly different from those of the outgoing Member was £1,748.58. The right hon. Member for Administration, namely to bring those in the civil service Havant (Mr Willetts), now the Minister for Universities scheme into line with those in the private sector. and Science, spent £3,763 and the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), the Secretary of Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) State for Northern Ireland, spent £13,573. I am not (PC): The Leader of the House will be aware that this criticising them; they were simply doing their job as week’s second and final report of the Independent Opposition Front-Bench spokespersons. The Leader of Commission on Funding and Finance for Wales called the House is a fair man, so will he look into this? Is it for an immediate Barnett floor to protect Wales from right to deny us in opposition the opportunities his further convergence, the implementation of transition party had in opposition to do their job? mechanisms towards a needs-based formula for my country and a place at the table for the Welsh Government Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman makes a in discussions on fiscal autonomy for Scotland. Will he good point, in that the regime for extended travel in the ask for a debate in Government time on those proposals? last Parliament appears to have been more generous than the new extended travel regime introduced by the Sir George Young: There will be questions on Wales Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. The on 28 July, I think. In the mean time, I shall bring the issue has already been raised with IPSA by me and by hon. Gentleman’s views to the attention of my right some of the hon. Gentleman’s hon. and right hon. hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Wales and for Friends, and I shall pursue the matter to see whether we Scotland. I am aware of the importance of issues concerning can get some equity of treatment. the Barnett formula. Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I am Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): disappointed by the almost glib way the Leader of the Protecting the most vulnerable in our society should be House sought to dismiss our concerns about the Building a basic principle of government, so may I urge the Schools for the Future fiasco. Do the Government not Leader of the House to create the opportunity to debate, owe it to the people of this country, including my in Government time, the statement of 15 June 2010 by constituents who send their children to King’s Heath the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, Health Boys, to give us a full debate in Government time so Canada and the European Commission’s directorate-general that we can understand what went on? Is it a question of for health and consumers regarding the safety of looped competence on the part of the Secretary of State? Is it a blind cords so that we can put an end to the strangulation communication problem with his officials? Is it a sign of of children by looped blind cords in this country? things to come, as the Government attempt to make 537 Business of the House8 JULY 2010 Business of the House 538

[Steve McCabe] Sir George Young: If the hon. Gentleman comes along on Monday he can put that question to the cuts left, right and centre? Far from providing stability, Secretary of State for Education and get an answer. we are in for months and years of misery and chaos, and if the Leader of the House is not prepared to let us Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Might understand what went on, I suspect he is trying to cover we have time to debate the serious and worrying something up. developments—human rights abuses and stories of unlawful killings—in the Srinagar area of Indian-administered Sir George Young: May I say to the hon. Gentleman Kashmir? There are many ongoing concerns, particularly that each year 20 days are allotted for Opposition about the Kashmir question and it is about time that debates? If he and his hon. Friends believe that they India and Pakistan found a way to move towards a have a case against the Administration on incompetence, peaceful and democratic future for Kashmir. it is open to them to choose as a subject for an Opposition day exactly the issue he has raised—the handling of Sir George Young: I agree. It is a serious issue that Building Schools for the Future. ought to be debated and it seems to me an appropriate Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): In Prime Minister’s subject for Westminster Hall. questions yesterday, the Prime Minister elected to answer a question by, in his words, trying to boost sales of a Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): book that I understand was published by an organisation May I echo the request made by many of my hon. part-owned by Lord Ashcroft. Can the Leader of the Friends and ask the Leader of the House to find time House assure us that rather than questions to the Prime for an urgent debate on BSF? On a number of occasions, Minister resulting in all Members of Parliament receiving the right hon. Gentleman has referred to the opportunities an e-mail from the publishing firm—almost as though offered by Opposition day debates, but as far as I am it knew what would happen—they are there to provide aware an Opposition day debate has not been allocated enlightenment to members of the public and not for the before the recess. One hundred and ten of the projects Prime Minister to make a sales pitch on behalf of slashed were schools in the north-west, and 57 of them Conservative party benefactors? were in Merseyside and Cheshire alone. We need to debate the disproportionate impact of those cuts on the Sir George Young: I think that there is some room in life chances of children from across the north-west. our proceedings, at some times, for just an element of humour. I hope that Ministers will not be penalised or Sir George Young: I am sorry to have to give the same discouraged if occasionally, every now and then, they answer as I gave a few moments ago. I cannot find time use a sense of humour. for an urgent debate on that subject. I have outlined the debates that are likely to take place between now and Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): The work of the end of the month. Again, I have to say that the citizens advice bureaux is widely regarded on both sides reason for the announcement was the over-commitment of the Chamber. Will the Leader of the House make a of the outgoing Government of funds and the absence debate available so that we can discuss the cuts to of the cover necessary in Departments to meet those citizens advice bureaux—approximately £2.5 million commitments. this year—which they are finding it extremely difficult to cope with? As all Members know, such cuts increase Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab) rose— pressure on their constituency surgeries and on legal advice centres as well. Mr Speaker: I have been saving him up—Mr Chris Bryant. Sir George Young: I pay tribute to the work of citizens advice bureaux, particularly the ones in Andover and Chris Bryant: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for Tadley in North West Hampshire. I think it is an saving me up. appropriate subject for a debate in Westminster Hall, but if the hon. Gentleman is advocating that more In answer to the splendid and hon. Member for funds should go to a particular area of expenditure he Windsor (Adam Afriyie), who frankly should have been owes it to the House to identify some areas of savings to on the Government Front Bench, the Leader of the compensate for that. House got a bit ahead of himself. He said that we were about to have weeks of debating a constitutional reform Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): May I ask the Leader of Bill, but actually we have not yet been told whether the House for an urgent debate on the terms of reference there will be one Bill or two. We have not even been told for the review of education capital expenditure announced when the First Reading will be, let alone Second Reading by the Secretary of State for Education earlier this or any other stages. The Bill has not been published yet. week? Has the Leader of the House had the chance to Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to tell the see that buried deep in the terms of reference, under the House when the Bill is to be published, in advance of its heading “Reducing the burden on schools” are the being published, and that it will not be on the last day following words: before the recess? “To review and reform the requirement on schools, including the building/School Premises Regulations, design requirements Sir George Young: I am not getting ahead of myself and” at all. If the hon. Gentleman had listened to the statement —most important—“playing field regulations”. Does made by the Deputy Prime Minister on Monday, he that mean not only that we shall see new schools stolen would have heard clearly outlined the legislation that from under the noses of our children but also that their would be introduced on constitutional issues. There will playing fields will be sold off? be a Bill on the alternative vote system and boundaries, 539 Business of the House 8 JULY 2010 540 and there will be a Bill on fixed-term Parliaments. That Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) is likely to take some time for us to discuss and there will be opportunities for the hon. Gentleman and my 12.18 pm hon. Friend the Member for Windsor to raise the issues that concern them on the Floor of the House. The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): statement on stop and search powers under section 44 On a point of order, Mr Speaker. of the Terrorism Act 2000. On Wednesday last week, the European Court of Mr Speaker: The hon. Lady can raise a point of Human Rights ruled that its judgment in the case of order, but only after the statement. Perhaps she could Gillan and Quinton is final. This judgment found that hold her horses for a little while. the stop and search powers granted under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 amount to the violation of the right to a private life. The Court found that the powers are drawn too broadly—at the time of their initial authorisation and when they are used. It also found that the powers contain insufficient safeguards to protect civil liberties. The Government cannot appeal this judgment, although we would not have done so had we been able. We have always been clear in our concerns about these powers, and they will be included as part of our review of counter-terrorism legislation. I can, therefore, tell the House that I will not allow the continued use of section 44 in contravention of the European Court’s ruling and, more importantly, in contravention of our civil liberties. But neither will I leave the police without the powers they need to protect us. I have sought urgent legal advice and consulted police forces. In order to comply with the judgment—but to avoid pre-empting the review of counter-terrorism legislation—I have decided to introduce interim guidelines for the police. The test for authorisation for the use of section 44 powers is, therefore, being changed from requiring a search to be “expedient” for the prevention of terrorism, to the stricter test of its being “necessary” for that purpose; and, most importantly, I am introducing a new suspicion threshold. Officers will no longer be able to search individuals using section 44 powers; instead, they will have to rely on section 43 powers, which require officers to reasonably suspect the person to be a terrorist. And officers will only be able to use section 44 in relation to searches of vehicles. I will only confirm these authorisations where they are considered to be necessary, and officers will only be able to use them when they have “reasonable suspicion”. These interim measures will bring section 44 stop-and- search powers fully into line with the European Court’s judgment. They will provide operational clarity for the police. And they will last until we have completed our review of counter-terrorism laws and taken any relevant action arising from that review. The first duty of Government is to protect the public. But that duty must never be used as a reason to ride roughshod over our civil liberties. I believe that the interim proposals I have set out today give the police the support they need and protect those ancient rights. I commend the statement to the House. Alan Johnson (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab): I am grateful to the Home Secretary for early sight of the statement. The fifth anniversary of 7/7 yesterday reminded us all of the threat to this country and the tremendous work of the security services and the police in protecting our citizens from harm. The Prime Minister pointed out on Tuesday—very eloquently, I thought—how real those threats continue to be. 541 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44)8 JULY 2010 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) 542

[Alan Johnson] Secretary needs to understand that it is not the coalition agreement that will keep the public safe—it is the security The Home Secretary will be aware that the European services and the police. The statement today will Court’s judgment was based on the way that section 44 undoubtedly make their job more difficult. powers were used by the Metropolitan police some years ago, and that the previous Government, together Mrs May: First, may I echo the comments that the with the police authorities, reviewed and improved their shadow Home Secretary has made about the important procedures in the intervening period. Will she confirm work that is done by the police and by our security that the number of stop and searches under section 44 services? That, of course, was made absolutely clear by has reduced considerably over the last two years? She the Prime Minister in the statement in relation to detainees will also be aware that all the UK courts, including the that he made in the House earlier in the week, and I High Court and the House of Lords, rejected the argument echo those comments. Our police forces do sterling that the Gillan and Quinton case represented a breach work for us and they go out there every day, dealing of article 8. In particular, the Law Lords were doubtful with difficult circumstances and are—we should never whether an ordinary, superficial search of the person forget this—prepared to put their lives on the line for could be said to show a lack of respect for private life. our safety. Even if article 8 did apply, they said the procedure was Yes, I can confirm that the number of stop and used in accordance with the law and it was impossible searches made under the section 44 and section 43 to regard a proper exercise of the power as other than powers has reduced significantly over time. That should proportionate when seeking to counter the great danger not, though, leave us under any illusion that there are of terrorism. not still concerns, not just in relation to the European The Home Secretary will also be aware that the Select Court judgment but concerns more generally in the UK Committee on Home Affairs examined this issue thoroughly about the use of those powers; that is why, as a coalition in 2005, when the current Prime Minister was a member Government, we were committed to reviewing those of that Committee, and rejected the allegation that the powers in any case in our review of counter-terrorism Asian community was being unreasonably targeted by legislation. I believe it is absolutely right to do so. the Metropolitan police in its use of section 44 powers. She will also know that while the independent reviewer The shadow Home Secretary asked about other options of terrorism legislation, Lord Carlile, had concerns that that were being looked at. Those will be considered section 44 powers were being used too often—this was within the counter-terrorism review. The purpose of before the changes in 2007-08—he stated clearly that making this statement today was to ensure that police “the power remains necessary and proportional to the continuing forces have the operational guidance that they obviously and serious risk of terrorism”. need, so that they know what they should be doing now Given all those facts, I am amazed that the Home given the European Court judgment. I would remind Secretary would not have pursued an appeal, given that the shadow Home Secretary that I have responded to every court in this country rejected the argument in that judgment, which is clear about the two points—that respect of Gillan and Quinton. these powers should only be used when they are necessary rather than expedient, and that there should be a degree Nevertheless, we are where we are in terms of the of suspicion in order for the powers to be used. It is legal avenues in Europe, and it does seem to me sensible exactly that which I am now implementing in the statement to change the test for authorisation from “expedience” and in the changes that are being made. to “necessity” and to use a test of “reasonable suspicion”, but I am deeply concerned about the Home Secretary’s The shadow Home Secretary asks about restricting intention to restrict section 44 powers to searches of the use of section 44 to vehicles rather than individuals. vehicles. That quite clearly restricts the powers of the Section 43 allows for the stop and search of individuals police. already with the reasonable suspicion attached to it. He Was the Police Service of Northern Ireland consulted, mentioned Northern Ireland. I certainly do not in any given the current dissident threat in Northern Ireland? way underestimate the importance of these powers in We sometimes say that there have been no terrorist relation to Northern Ireland. I have been in contact murders in Britain this year; but there have been in the with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for United Kingdom: there have been terrorist murders in Northern Ireland and consultations have taken place in Northern Ireland. What is the view of the Association Northern Ireland on the use of these powers, but I of Chief Police Officers, and in particular the Metropolitan would remind the shadow Home Secretary that there Police Commissioner, on this restriction? Were they are various other powers that can be used, as set out in consulted? Was Lord Carlile consulted, and if so, what the Northern Ireland-specific legislation. For example, is his view? under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Does the Home Secretary accept that section 43 does Act 2007, PSNI can stop and question individuals to not require ministerial authority, and why does she ascertain identity and movements, and can stop and believe it is necessary to go this far, by restricting search people in vehicles for munitions and transmitters, section 44 to searches of vehicles only, in responding to and there are a variety of other powers that can be used the European Court’s judgment? Is she saying that by PSNI. nothing less will suffice? Did she explore other legislative Finally, the shadow Home Secretary said to me that options, and will she publish for consultation other I, as Home Secretary, need to understand. I think what options for amending section 44, so that the House can the shadow Home Secretary needs to understand is the see the alternatives and debate them fully? degree of concern that there has been about the use of We have the prospect in this country of the police these section 44 powers under the Terrorism Act 2000—the being asked to continue to protect us with fewer officers, degree of concern that did arise, not just initially from diminished resources and restricted powers. The Home the way in which they were being used by the police, but 543 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44)8 JULY 2010 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) 544 a continuing concern about the impact on our civil Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): liberties. I make no apology for the fact—[Interruption.] Can the Secretary of State assure me that the counter- I believe the shadow Home Secretary was looking at a terrorism review to which she referred will draw a line Liberal Democrat, the hon. Member for Carshalton under the abuse of state powers that we have seen over and Wallington (Tom Brake), and muttering about the past decade and that civil liberties will be sacrificed “their obsession”. I have to say to the shadow Home no longer for the sake of new laws that do not make us Secretary that a desire to protect our civil liberties is not any safer? an obsession; it is something that we throughout this House should want to do, regardless of political party. I Mrs May: My hon. Friend makes a valid point on the believe it is the duty of Government to balance the need concern that many of us have had about the powers that to give the police the powers they need to protect us, were introduced by the previous Labour Government: with the need to defend our civil liberties, and I believe in many cases, those powers did not introduce an increased that is what the statement does. element of safety. In fact, the shadow Home Secretary referred to the review of counter-terrorism undertaken Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): by Lord Carlile, who said in his 2009 annual report: May I commend the Home Secretary for coming to the “There is little or no evidence that the use of section 44 has the House to say what she has said today and particularly potential to prevent an act of terrorism as compared with other for her decision to adopt a necessary, rather than expedient, statutory powers of stop and search.” use of these powers? This is a reflection of the excessive use of counter-terrorism powers by a number of forces Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I must say that I throughout the country. In her review of these powers, cannot join in the collective hurrah about the removal will she look at their different use in various parts of the of powers that the House, not the European Court, country? We know from the London and Glasgow should be in charge of. These powers were used successfully bombings that terrorism is not confined to England, yet on 10,000 occasions last year in Northern Ireland to the number of uses of the power in England and Wales prevent and disrupt dissident terrorists. The year before was well over 100,000 in the past calendar year; in that, only 3,000 stop-and-search measures were taken Scotland, it was under 100. under reasonable suspicion, which is much more difficult to prove and identifies a suspect who may be traced by the police when they do not want him to be identified Mrs May: I thank my right hon. Friend for his while they are pursuing him. What measures will now comments on the statement and for his suggestion, be put in place to ensure that the citizens of Northern which I am certainly happy to consider. He is absolutely Ireland are protected fully, completely and properly right: the use of the powers among forces has been quite from the dissident republican threat? different—not just among England and Wales and Scotland, but between police forces in England and Wales. Mrs May: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising those issues. Obviously, I recognise the concern Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I thank the Home that he has raised in relation to the exercise of these Secretary for her statement. She is absolutely right to powers in Northern Ireland and of the revised powers have taken the position that she has taken. There is no that I have announced today. The PSNI has a number question of a further appeal, given the circumstances, of other powers available to it, and I referred to a and she is right to introduce guidelines. Will she share couple of them in the response that I gave earlier to the with the House any information about further claims shadow Home Secretary. The PSNI will still be able to for compensation, which could run to hundreds of use existing legislation to conduct targeted and intelligence- thousands, possibly millions, of pounds? We obviously led stop-and-searches, to protect its officers and the look forward to probing her on these issues when she communities that it serves, but I am happy to write to comes before the Home Affairs Committee. Can she the hon. Gentleman with more detail about the powers assure us that she will return to the House regularly to that will continue to be available to the PSNI. continue to pursue the previous Government’s counter- terrorism agenda, where we showed zero tolerance; that Mr Robert Walter (North Dorset) (Con): May I the claims made by Mr Yates that, somehow, the resources welcome the Home Secretary’s statement and express will not be there are ill-founded; and that she will some surprise at the shadow Home Secretary’s attempt provide all the resources necessary to pursue a strong to defend the practice that has been ruled illegal? I and vigorous counter-terrorism agenda? remind the House that, in 1949, the United Kingdom was the architect of the Council of Europe and the Mrs May: I can certainly assure the right hon. Gentleman European convention on human rights. Members who that it is the Government’s intention to pursue a strong represent us at the Council of Europe have been and vigorous counter-terrorism agenda, and we will, embarrassed over the past few years by some of the indeed, come to the House at various stages in relation previous Government’s actions on human rights. Therefore, to our review of counter-terrorism legislation and any in any review of anti-terrorism legislation, will we be related changes that we wish to make. He asked a cognisant of our obligations under the European specific question about compensation claims. We have, convention? of course, responded quickly to the European Court’s judgment, but the Court was clear and agreed with the Mrs May: I am happy to give that commitment to my Government that no compensation should be awarded hon. Friend, and I thank him for his excellent service on given the short duration of stop-and-search powers. the Council of Europe, which he has undertaken over a The finding alone was considered by the European number of years. Just as the point was made by my hon. Court as satisfaction, although it ordered the Government Friend the Member for Oxford West and Abingdon to pay legal costs. (Nicola Blackwood), we are cognisant in our work to 545 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44)8 JULY 2010 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) 546

[Mrs May] but certainly I and others received that draft. That feeds the suspicion that the power has been used more generally. review counter-terrorism legislation of the need to redress Does she agree that section 44 was a misjudgment in the balance between ensuring that our police have the legislation which has led in some cases to a misapplication powers necessary to protect the public and protecting of law enforcement? our ancient civil liberties. Mrs May: I am concerned about the point that the Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I welcome the hon. Gentleman has made, although I thank him for his right hon. Lady’s statement today. She will know that I comments on the statement. I assure him that the raised these matters in a series of parliamentary questions statement that I have made is the one that was drafted after the original judgment was issued. What those and that I saw this morning in the Home Office before I parliamentary questions elicited was widespread variation came to the Chamber. I am concerned if he has seen an in how the powers had been applied. What steps will she alternative version, and I will look into that matter. I take now to hold those chief constables to account for am very conscious of the possible impact in Northern the way in which they abused the powers that were Ireland. That is precisely why the Secretary of State for available to them, thus bringing the whole use of the Northern Ireland and I have been discussing this issue powers into contempt by members of the public? over a number of days, and he has been consulting in Northern Ireland on the statement’s impact. I believe Mrs May: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. As he that the PSNI had been exercising its powers under the says, this has indeed been a matter of concern to him for legislation in relation to necessity and reasonable suspicion, some time. He is right to say that the use of the powers and it can continue to do so as a result of the statement has been variable among forces and over time. It is, of that I have made today. As I indicated in an earlier course, within the Secretary of State’s remit to ensure response, other powers will still be available to the that they are used partly through the authorisations, PSNI. which must be confirmed by the Secretary of State within 48 hours of the appropriate level of police putting Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): Will the Secretary those authorisations in place. Of course, we will revert of State reassure the House that the police can continue to this issue in the counter-terrorism legislation review, to use existing stop-and-search powers to combat drug and we will consider that matter at that time. dealers and those carrying knives and guns, and that counter-terrorism legislation ought never to be used for Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): If the those purposes? coalition is obsessed with defending civil liberties, I am proud of that fact. Is the Home Secretary satisfied that Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that the balance between civil liberties and safeguarding our question, which enables me to be clear that the other security is adequately redressed with these changes to stop-and-search powers are not affected by the statement. section 44; or does she believe that further changes may The statement relates to the Terrorism Act 2000, particularly be required to section 44 after the counter-terrorism section 44, although other sections are part of the legislation review? change. I am changing the guidance on section 44, but other stop-and-search powers are still available to police. Mrs May: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. The whole point of making the statement today is to ensure that an interim position is available to Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I the police, so that they have operational guidance and accept that the Home Secretary has acted speedily in clarity about the powers that they can exercise, but view of the Court’s decision. Will the interim guidelines precisely because I feel that we need to take a wider look be published? Although I accept her point about civil at section 44 and to look at it in the context of other liberties, is she confident that police officers will not counter-terrorism legislation, we will continue to consider now go in fear of disciplinary action as they attempt to it within the review. I cannot say at this stage whether exercise reasonable suspicion in their efforts to protect any further changes will be introduced, but that would the rest of us? be done in the wider context of the review of all counter-terrorism legislation. Mrs May: On the hon. Gentleman’s last point, I am confident that that will not be the case. The purpose of Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I welcome the Home the statement today, as he recognises, is to give clarity at Secretary’s statement today.The European Court judgment as early a stage as possible to police officers on how they was clear; the previous Government’s attempt to appeal are to operate the guidelines. The guidelines will be against it has failed; and she has acted properly in the published, including in the Hansard report of my statement. decision that she has announced today. Does the earlier draft of the Home Secretary’s statement that has gone Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): The into circulation and that referred to Northern Ireland, Home Secretary should realise that the new guidelines particularly to the approach to the parades season, in will be very welcome in Kent, where we have had to deal any way corroborate the suspicion that these powers with a number of criticisms of the use of stop-and-search, have been used as a matter of convenience by the police particular with respect to the climate camp at Kingsnorth. on matters that are not directly a situation where terrorism Does she agree that although senior police officers is suspected? [Interruption.] A draft has gone into should be consulted on such matters, it is essential that circulation somehow that made reference to Northern national policy guidance should be determined by her, Ireland and the approach to the marching season. I do as the Minister accountable to Parliament, and not the not know whether the Home Secretary is aware of that, Association of Chief Police Officers? 547 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44)8 JULY 2010 Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) 548

Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his am only sorry that the previous Government chose to question. His observation of the difficulty arising from infringe those civil liberties in some of their legislative the exercise and use of those powers in Kent shows decisions. precisely why there has been fairly widespread concern about them. He is entirely right, which is why I have Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Does my come to Parliament today to make this statement. The right hon. Friend agree that, to be safe, we must keep decision on the guidance that is issued to police forces is the whole country on side and ensure that no group one that I have taken as Home Secretary. feels persecuted or victimised, and that today’s announcement is a welcome step in the right direction? Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Last December, I was Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who subject to section 44—[Interruption.] Fortunately, I makes an extremely valid point. It is in a sense an was sent away and everything was fine, but nevertheless extension of the one made by my hon. Friend the I felt that my liberties as a citizen had been infringed on, Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon)—notably, one and a sense of grievance, albeit a small one, against the difficulty was that parts of the community felt that the authorities. [Interruption.] My great problem with what way in which the stop-and-search powers were used was the previous Government did is this: if we believe in disproportionate. The concerns were such that they liberal democracy, we must also hold out strongly for its began to bring into disrepute the police’s ability to keep values. We weaken those values at great cost. Does the us safe at the same time as we, as a Parliament, maintained Secretary of State agree? our civil liberties. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I thank my Mrs May: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his right hon. Friend for her statement. Will she confirm comments. The shadow Police Minister, the right hon. that there will be no increase in police paperwork as a Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), mutters from a sedentary result of the changes? position, “It was random,” but that is the whole point of the European Court judgment. There needs to be a Mrs May: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for degree of suspicion if the police are to stop and search ensuring that he keeps us up to the mark on our somebody. On the rest of my hon. Friend’s question, it commitments on police bureaucracy. It is certainly not is important for us to defend our civil liberties. I believe my intention that there should be any increase in police that that is the task of everybody in the House, and I paperwork as a result of the changes. 549 8 JULY 2010 Points of Order 550

Points of Order group of Departments to answer Adjournment debates there? The same group of only nine Departments that answered debates this week are answering next week, 12.46 pm and in the week beginning 26 July. The other larger Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): On a point of group of 15 Departments, including the Department order, Mr Speaker. May I draw your attention to what for Culture, Media and Sport, the Department for appears to be a major defect in our procedures in the Education, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the House? Our sister Parliaments in Canada and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Netherlands—countries that have made similar sacrifices and the Treasury, are answering for only one week in to our country in blood and treasure in Afghanistan—have four—the week beginning 19 July. Can Members seeking debated and voted on the deployment of troops to that a debate with Ministers from one of those 15 Departments country. Of course, our deployment took place in 2001, be told just why those Ministers are becoming less and before the precedent was set, prior to the Iraq war, for a less accountable to the House? vote in the House before troops are deployed. At this turning point in our involvement in Afghanistan—the Mr Speaker: I say to the hon. Lady, first, that there welcome announcement of our withdrawal of our soldiers was—I believe that I am right in saying—at one time a from north Helmand and the announcement of a possible system of alternation, whereby one set of Departments exit date—would it not be appropriate that we debate would answer debates in Westminster Hall one week and actually vote to decide whether we want to continue and the other would answer in the subsequent week. to send our soldiers to Afghanistan? Strictly speaking, it is a matter for the Government to decide how to respond to issues, but in so far as the hon. Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is ingenious, but he Lady is airing a concern that issues which Members knows very well that he is seeking to inveigle me into wish to raise are not being responded to, I am happy to making what is essentially a political pronouncement, look into it. I shall revert to her when I have further and and I must not do that. He has made his point very better particulars. clearly. How such matters are addressed is a matter for the House. In an earlier incarnation, I had views and Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): On a point of order, expressed them on this matter; in my present role, I do Mr Speaker. I have been advised by the Table Office, not have views, and therefore will not express them. which has otherwise been incredibly helpful to me in However, he has expressed his views very clearly, and I every respect, that I am not permitted to use the word have a feeling that he might want to apprise his constituents “democratic” in the title of an early-day motion. Given of the fact of what he said. that we are in possibly the greatest Parliament in the world and one of the oldest democracies, do you agree Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): On a point of that it is unusual that I should not be allowed to use that order, Mr Speaker. Numerous media reports today and word? Would you review the rules so that that word may yesterday have suggested that the Government intend to be allowed its rightful place in this House? change the date for digital radio switchover, and that they will announce that in a speech being made this Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is a new Member, afternoon by the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, although I have known him a long time, so I am sure Olympics, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Wantage that he will not be offended if I say that, on the whole, (Mr Vaizey). Have Ministers given any indication that matters of this kind—that appertain to the Table Office they intend to pay Members of this House the courtesy and the staff of the House—should not really be raised of informing them of this significant change in policy, in the form of a point of order. The hon. Gentleman is which will affect millions of people and businesses in certainly entitled to appeal to me, but it is the sort of Britain, or is this the latest example of the new Government matter best dealt with not on the Floor of the House. treating Parliament with complete contempt? However, the hon. Gentleman has raised the point Mr Speaker: Let me say to the right hon. Gentleman and, having had no previous knowledge of what he that I have certainly received no indication from a intended to say, I would respond thus. He pleads the member of the Government that he or she intends to case for being allowed to use the word “democratic” in make a statement on this matter. The point of order the title of an early-day motion, but it all depends on that he raises will have been heard very clearly on the the detail—therein lies the devil. I do not know what Treasury Bench. It is a matter into which I am very title he had in mind, but ordinarily the title of an happy to inquire. The right hon. Gentleman, who is early-day motion, in order to be acceptable to the Table always keenly abreast of events, will know that I have Office, is supposed to be strictly factual. It is not supposed made my views very clear about the requirement for to be argumentative or disputatious. If an hon. Member policy statements by Ministers to be made first to this is unhappy with the advice from the Table Office, he or House and not—I repeat not, for the benefit of those she can write to me and I will consider the matter. listening on the Treasury Bench; if I could attract the I hope that that is a helpful answer—it is certainly a attention of the Minister for Immigration, I should be comprehensive one—but if the hon. Gentleman has a grateful—outside this House. proposal for a general change to the House’s procedures on these matters, his request should be directed to the Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): Procedure Committee. On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In business questions, the Leader of the House frequently directed hon. Members Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): On to seek debates in Westminster Hall, so is it in order to a point of order, Mr Speaker. During business questions, ask you to investigate the apparent reluctance of a large the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) raised 551 Points of Order8 JULY 2010 Points of Order 552 the issue that IPSA’s byzantine procedures may have Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): constituted a breach of parliamentary privilege. My On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This must be a day for concern is similar. It is that IPSA is markedly failing to maiden points of order. We have just heard from the pay in any reasonable time the duly accredited invoices Home Secretary about the importance of the Government’s presented to my office by those small and medium responsibility to protect the public. Can I ask you, enterprises that provide services to me and to those therefore, whether it is acceptable for the Leader of the small community organisations and charities that furnish House deliberately to ignore the question that I put to me with a room. It may well be that their only recourse him during business questions on the safety of children is to attempt to bring bailiffs into this House to remove and looped blind cords? The response by the Leader of objects from our offices to meet their outstanding payments. the House will be seen by families who have lost children Would that constitute a breach of parliamentary privilege? in that manner as grossly unacceptable. Is such a practice Those small and medium enterprises must have some appropriate? avenue by which they may receive what is duly theirs.

Mr Speaker: I have just been advised that page 167 of Mr Speaker: There is no procedural impropriety “Erskine May” applies in this context, and I feel sure concerned. I can almost smell the hon. Gentleman’s that the full details of that are well familiar to the hon. anger on behalf of his constituents, but he is seeking to Lady. She conjures up a lurid spectacle that will concern continue the debate. Indeed, many Members might many hon. Members, and she does so on the basis of conclude that he has already successfully done so. experience, and that is respected. She will be aware that all sorts of discussions take place between Members of Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): On a point Parliament and representatives of IPSA, and that is of order, Mr Speaker. You are of course the servant of perfectly proper. However, I am sorry to have to tell her the House of Commons and it could be argued that you that as things stand it is clear that matters of privilege should not make any statements without the authority cannot be addressed by being raised on the Floor of the of the House. However, in a rare exception, I ask House in this way. If she wishes to write to me with an whether you feel that you could raise your voice about argument about a potential breach of privilege, it is the act of outright barbarism proposed by the Iranian open to her to do so. I shall look in my mailbag. Government. A 43-year-old woman is to be stoned to death. Her son has pleaded for clemency. Her offence is Glenda Jackson: You will find an envelope. alleged adultery. I know that it is rare to ask the Speaker of the House of Commons to raise his voice, but a Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. number of leading figures in the international community have done so already. We have been discussing civil Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): On a point of order, liberties in our country, but let us imagine a person Mr Speaker. This is my maiden point of order to you, being stoned to death for an offence that she denies in so I hope that you will be gentle if I get the wrong any case. It is so primitive, so evil. In the circumstances, approach. Have you any further information about the I wonder whether you could make a rare exception and, encampment in Parliament square? On Saturday some as the Speaker, raise your voice in protest. guests attending a function in the House went to see the statue of Winston Churchill. They were from abroad and thought that the encampment was a summer fete. Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman has served in this They were approached by people from the camp who House, at this mid-point in his career, for 35 years, if asked them for money and when it was not forthcoming memory serves me correctly, and he knows the real they were subjected to racist abuse. They could not call limitations on what the Speaker can say. My concern is the police because the camp is on an island and they did that, although the issue that he has raised is a matter of not know that the police could cross the very busy road. real concern and humanity, it is almost certainly not a Do we know when the camp is to be removed? I have point of order. I feel strongly about the protection of read in the newspapers that the Mayor of London had civil liberties and human rights, and I take the gravest taken out an injunction but that it had been appealed. It exception to their abuse. would be helpful if Members knew what progress had The hon. Gentleman describes a truly horrific matter. been made. I do not wish to treat anything that he says with levity—and I mean that—but he mentioned how several Mr Speaker: I am very sorry to learn of the experiences leading members of the international community had that the right hon. Gentleman describes. The short already condemned this prospect. I therefore seek to answer to his question is that the issue has been the extricate myself from any difficulty by saying that whatever subject of legal argument. Until that argument is fully else the hon. Gentleman thinks of me, I am sure that he resolved, I should be very cautious in what I say. I am would not promote me to the level of a leading member keen, as I know others—including the Mayor of London— of the international community. He has put his concerns are keen, that this issue should be resolved satisfactorily on the record, and I have tried to be as helpful as I can. in the interests of the public, including visitors to our I hope that we in this House are in favour of human country, as quickly as possible. rights, not of their grotesque abuse. 553 8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 554

Defendant Anonymity Mr Blunt: I will give way to the right hon. Lady, but I would like to get through the bulk of my remarks, and make clear the Government’s position and the explanation 1pm for it. I will then be happy to take further interventions. At this stage, however, I am happy to give way to her. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt): I beg to move, Caroline Flint: I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman That this House has considered the matter of defendant anonymity. has just put it on the record that, based on the available I welcome the opportunity to speak on this subject evidence, there is little evidence of a high rate of false for a second time. On this occasion, I am a little allegations. In that context, will he speak to his right less inhibited by time pressure, but I am conscious of hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who did not help the the number of people seeking to catch your eye, debate when he said, having been questioned about Mr Deputy Speaker, so I will not delay the House too falsely accused rape defendants: much. Since I last addressed the House, in the 7 June “We know that a lot of people are falsely accused”?—[Official Adjournment debate, the Government have reviewed Report, 9 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 328.] the arguments more fully and our thinking has advanced, and I look forward to the opportunity to explain where Mr Blunt: I think that the right hon. Lady will matters now stand. I also look forward to dispelling appreciate what I am about to put on the record regarding some common myths and misconceptions about our the detail of evidence in this area. I am sure that the policy. House will be pleased to hear that the Government will make a full response to Baroness Stern’s recommendations I emphasise again that the question of anonymity for in due course. I want to make it clear that the issue of rape defendants is wholly consistent with our fundamental false allegations is not one of the reasons for considering commitment to supporting victims of crime. Violence changes to our policy on rape defendants. It would be against women, girls and vulnerable people is totally were there strong evidence that a significantly greater unacceptable, whatever the context or circumstances. number of false allegations are associated with rape We know that victims of sexual violence often find it than with other offences, but the Government do not very difficult to report a rape to the police, and of believe that to be the case. course for those who have felt able to come forward, going through the criminal justice process can be an On that question, I remind the House again, as I did incredibly difficult and painful experience. Our focus is in the earlier Adjournment debate, that there are in fact on the rights and welfare of the victim, and we are two anonymity commitments in our coalition agreement. committed to ensuring that every victim of rape has One relates to rape, the other—referring to no particular access to appropriate support. In particular, we are offence—to teachers. The House will wish to note that looking at putting funding for rape crisis services on a there is a specific reference in our coalition agreement more sustainable basis and at establishing new rape to protecting teachers from false allegations, but no crisis centres where there are gaps in provision. such linkage over rape complainants. It is therefore important that we distinguish between these two The Government Equalities Office is currently carrying commitments. The criminal justice Departments will out a consultation on a strategic action plan, including therefore need to carry out further work in conjunction Government action on working with a more sustainable with the Department for Education before we are in a violence-against-women voluntary sector, based on cash, position to provide a clear statement of how we intend commissioning and capacity building. It closes on 23 July. to proceed on the teacher aspect. The action plan suggests a capacity-building project to be carried out in partnership with the relevant umbrella The remainder of my remarks, therefore, are addressed bodies, to support their ability to represent Members to the issue that has caused the most controversy and and work together to influence the Government. The interest in the House—the issue around rape defendants. Home Secretary will be chairing a meeting of Ministers However, we will listen carefully to any contributions across government later this month to discuss how we today on teacher anonymity, which will help to inform tackle violence against women more widely. our discussions with other Departments. We will not conflate myths and stereotypes about We are committed to supporting victims and improving false allegations with our detailed work on the proposals the investigation and prosecution of rape. for defendant anonymity. This debate is not about doubting victims’ reports or repeating uninformed Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): Will the arguments about false allegations. Baroness Stern has hon. Gentleman clarify in more detail the proposals on stated in her independent and impressive review that teacher anonymity? Is he suggesting anonymity in respect this is an area on which we need further research, and of abuse, sexual abuse or rape, or have the Government the Government are looking into this. I want to make it not yet clarified in their own mind in precisely what clear that Baroness Stern’s review of the evidence found circumstances teachers will be granted anonymity? that only a very few rape allegations are false: Furthermore, will it extend to teaching assistants and “It is not possible to establish an exact figure and the research other staff in schools, such as caretakers? that is available gives a wide range of suggested percentages. Some research suggests that a figure of eight to ten per cent of Mr Blunt: I am surprised by that intervention because reported rapes could well be false reports. However, those we the Government made their position clear yesterday in spoke to in the system felt that there were very few.” a written ministerial statement by the Minister of State, Department for Education, my hon. Friend the Member Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): Will the Minister for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb). It give way? bears repeating: 555 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 556

“Finally, we will give teachers the strongest possible protection on rape investigation. We will also consider carefully from false accusations. We will give anonymity to teachers facing how we can support agencies’ joint work on sharing accusations from pupils. This Government want to put an end to intelligence and good practice. rumours and malicious gossip about innocent teachers which can ruin careers and even lives.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2010; Vol. 513, The anonymity debate has been characterised by a c. 12WS.] number of myths and misconceptions, which have As I said, we will now hold discussions with the Department unfortunately served to obscure rather than clarify matters. for Education, the Home Office and the Law Officers For example, it is alleged that anonymity for defendants about how to proceed. Right now, however, I do not would deter victims in general from coming forward. want to say anything further about that, as I have a One can easily understand the argument that depriving significant amount to report to the House on the complainants of anonymity would indeed have that Government’s position on rape defendants. I want to effect. Their cross-examination about painful personal focus on that now. matters would be exposed to the public gaze, which is bound to have a deterrent effect on the willingness of Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): Will the others to come forward. Parliament has long recognised Minister give way? that reality. However, it is difficult to understand how the anonymity of a defendant could possibly have such Mr Blunt: If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I would an effect. There is an argument that reducing publicity like to set out the Government’s analysis and position, around rape investigations and trial should make it and then I will be happy to take further interventions. easier for complainants. That would be an effect of protecting the defendant’s identity. The strength of that We are committed to supporting victims and improving effect before and during any trial will be a matter of the investigation and prosecution of rape. It will be judgment. useful to the House if I share our best understanding of what happens to rape complaints made to the police. In 2008, 13,093 complaints of rape were made to the Maria Eagle: Does the hon. Gentleman understand police. Based on a Metropolitan police survey in 2007, that one of the reasons why people fear that introducing we would expect that one third of these were no-crimed anonymity for defendants just in rape cases will deter and that 30% of this third—about 10% overall—were reporting by victims is that he would be singling out false allegations, which I believe to be reasonably consistent that one crime for such treatment? Extending anonymity with false allegations around other offences. That is why to defendants in all cases might not have the same the number of false allegations is not part of the reason impact, but by singling out one particular offence, the for changing our position on this issue. Police identified hon. Gentleman is in danger of sending a clear signal to 80% of suspects, and 73% of these were arrested, but victims that they will not be believed. only 44% of those arrests resulted in a charge by the Crown Prosecution Service, perhaps due to withdrawal Mr Blunt: I understand that that is one of the counter- of evidence by the victim, which could be caused by fear arguments, but in the end it comes down to a matter of of reprisals, the court process or the lack of emotional judgment and balance among a number of competing strength to continue. arguments. I am quite happy to concede that the argument that the hon. Lady has set out has some weight, but What we know about case disposals in 2008 is as other arguments have to be weighed in the balance too. follows. Some 2,395 cases were proceeded with at a Let me therefore put those arguments before the House. magistrates court, of which 1,822 were sent to the Crown court, with 24% of cases not proceeded with for To turn to our proposals, we have now had the various reasons, including the charges being dropped, opportunity to consider both the arguments and the although in some cases the defendant will have been background in further detail. The last time the subject convicted of other offences at the magistrates court. Of was debated at any length in Parliament was during the the 1,822 cases that proceeded to the Crown court, passage of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Reference to 24 were not tried for a variety of reasons. However, those debates is highly instructive, and I would like, if I 1,798 men went on trial accused of rape in 2008, 51% of may, to dwell for a while on that subject. Anonymity for whom were convicted of rape, with 77% convicted defendants was first raised in another place not by a either of rape or another offence. Of those who went on Government or Opposition Member, but by a Cross trial, 406 pleaded guilty and 1,392 pleaded not guilty. Bencher, Lord Ackner, the late former Law Lord, who Of those pleading not guilty, 36% were convicted of had tabled an amendment to the Bill. Lord Ackner’s rape, while 885 of those pleading not guilty were acquitted view was as follows: of rape or attempted rape. I estimate from the information “For 12 years this anonymity”— made available to me that about half those will have that is, defendant anonymity— been convicted of another offence, but it is not yet “was enjoyed. I have heard nothing to suggest that during those possible to be precise about that from the data examination 12 years there were occasions when it worked to the disadvantage that I have been able to undertake before today’s debate. of justice. I have not limited my request to pre-trial because We need to empower police officers to improve rape pre-trial is only part of the issue.”—[Official Report, House of investigations. We are all aware, as the recent Independent Lords, 2 June 2003; Vol. 648, c. 1095.] Police Complaints Commission investigation into Kirk Their lordships narrowly accepted Lord Ackner’s Reid has again demonstrated, of the terrible consequences amendment, so that when the Bill passed to this House that investigative failures can have. To demonstrate our it contained provision for defendant anonymity. The commitment to improving the criminal justice response then Government decided to resist that in its entirety. In to rape, the Home Office will continue to fund the rape Committee, the Opposition tabled alternative, probing support programme this year, providing additional targeted amendments that would have granted anonymity either support to forces to improve their approach and practice all the way to conviction or, as the case may be, up to 557 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 558

[Mr Blunt] criminal justice system. We support that view. There is, however, another important reason of principle for the point of charge. Only the latter amendment was distinguishing between the reporting of trials and the pressed to a Division. A similar Opposition amendment reporting of allegations before the point of charge. In was tabled on Report and was also pressed to a Division. the case of the latter, we are dealing with allegations Interestingly, the Government of the day indicated that that have not been subject to a full range of investigation. they accepted the desirability of pre-charge anonymity in principle, but preferred a non-legislative solution. Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): Will my hon. Some scepticism was expressed by a number of speakers Friend give way? in both Houses about whether the non-legislative approach was realistic. However, there was also some support for Mr Blunt: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I want to the suggestion that a non-legislative solution would be set out where the Government are on this issue, and ideal. then I shall be happy to take further interventions. When the Bill returned to the other place for When there is an allegation before the point of charge, consideration of this House’s amendments, Lord Ackner there may have been some degree of investigation into moved an amendment similar to his earlier one, but on the allegation, but there will have been no formal assertion that occasion it was defeated. However, the coalition on the part of the state that anybody has a case to partners joined together to support a narrower amendment, answer. Those points provide grounds to inhibit reporting tabled by Lord Thomas of Gresford, that would have that are not present at the trial stage. Therefore, having provided statutory anonymity at the pre-charge stage. carefully reviewed the extensive background, having That amendment was duly passed. When the Bill returned taken account of the fact that nobody should be appearing once again to this House, the then Government maintained in a criminal trial unless the prosecuting authorities their previous position and the Lords amendment was have assessed all the available evidence including any again deleted from the Bill. The matter was once again exculpatory unused material, and prosecutors having pressed to a vote. That was followed by yet another applied the other provisions of the code for Crown round of debate in the other place. Ultimately, no prosecutors and decided to bring criminal charges, the further Opposition amendments were pressed, for fear Government are minded to strengthen anonymity up to that the whole Bill would fall as a result. the point of charge. This is consistent with the findings of the Home Affairs Select Committee—on which my In the latter stages of the Bill, Ministers indicated right hon. Friend the Prime Minister served—in 2003, that discussions had been held with the Association of and also with the reply that he gave to the Leader of the Chief Police Officers and with the chairman of the Opposition at Prime Minister’s questions last month. Press Complaints Commission. As a result of the latter discussions, the press was looking at its code of conduct, Maria Eagle: Is the Minister saying that the Government to see how it could be strengthened to ensure that those are going to do this only in respect of the crime of rape, suspected of offences—but not yet charged with them— or are they planning to do it in respect of any criminal were not named in the media. The burning question charge? prompted by this saga is: what happened next? The answer is that the Press Complaints Commission issued Mr Blunt: This is about the crime of rape. a note in 2004 that specifically addressed the reporting of people accused of crime by reference to the relevant Ms Bagshawe: Will my hon. Friend expand on this a sections of the editors’ code of conduct. little? Does he understand the concern that is felt on It appears to be widely assumed that there is a both sides of the House that, by singling out rape in this self-regulation scheme in place that clearly prohibits the way, he is sending out a negative signal about women reporting of anybody accused of a crime but not yet and about those who accuse men of rape? charged with it. On close examination, however, the 2004 interpretative note does not provide complete Mr Blunt: I do understand that, but we also have to reassurance. Nowhere does it contain an outright general take into account the arguments that sit on the other prohibition on the reporting of pre-charge allegations. side of the equation. We are dealing with the environment In fact, in the main, no mention is made of the distinction in which these allegations are handled by the media. between pre and post-charge reporting at all. For that This is the position that the Government think strikes reason, anybody affronted—for example, by the reporting the right balance. It happens to be the position that was of an allegation that was not followed by charge—and thought to strike the right balance by the previous who wanted to complain to the PCC about the matter Government and by the previous Opposition, when the might well find that they had no grounds to do so under matter was considered in 2003. It is also the position the interpretative note or code. that was thought to strike the right balance by the Home Affairs Select Committee when it considered A further point, which soon became apparent from the matter in 2003. Therefore, unsurprisingly, this is the the exhaustive examination of the issue undertaken in conclusion that the Government have come to. this House and another place during the passage of the 2003 Act, is that both the then Government and the Meg Munn: I am extremely puzzled by what the hon. then Opposition parties settled on a position of Gentleman is saying. He has set out a very defensible agreement—in principle at least—to non-reporting up position on why someone’s name should not be in the to the point of charge and normal reporting procedures public domain before they are charged, but why is that thereafter. desirable only in relation to rape and not to any other Much has been made in the past of the importance of offence? Surely the same should apply to anyone who open justice and the free reporting of criminal trials as felt that they had been wrongly accused of theft or key elements of maintaining public confidence in the burglary or any other offence. 559 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 560

Mr Blunt: The strongest argument is around the [Interruption.] I am asking the Minister. Is it also being balance of harms. The complainant in a rape trial has considered in the context of all offences of violence, anonymity, and everyone who has considered this issue which is the other big category? Having single solutions in the past has come to a balanced judgment that it is for single types of offence, however important the offence therefore appropriate to give the defendant a degree of is, would be the wrong way to go. Looking at this in the anonymity. Because of the way in which rape is reported, broader context is the right way to proceed. these will have been the considerations that have guided previous Governments and Oppositions, and previous Mr Blunt: The Government have come to a view on parliamentarians, in their consideration of this issue. where we want to strengthen the position, and it is around the offence of rape. There are arguments about Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Minister has whether this should apply more widely, and we have correctly described the views of the Select Committee, given careful consideration to them. Setting aside the of which the Prime Minister was a member, in 2003. I issue of teachers—that is seen as discrete and should be was not serving on the Committee at that stage. He has carried forward separately—it is the Government’s view set out the Government’s views very clearly today. Does that we should limit this to the particular offence of this proposal exclude the possibility of the further rape. research into false allegations that the Stern inquiry suggested? Is he dismissing the idea of further research Our current thinking is that the available evidence altogether? does not absolutely dispose of some of the questions that have arisen in relation to anonymity, even at the Mr Blunt: No, it does not. I am delighted to say that pre-charge stage. There is an important outstanding the right hon. Gentleman has provided me with a cue to question of the extent to which anonymity might frustrate begin the next part of my speech, which deals with that further police inquiries into an offence. We are looking issue. at what further research might be required to fill in any In taking our position forward, we will examine the gaps. This will enable us to take a view on any exceptions question of section 44 of the YouthJustice and Criminal that it might be necessary to build into a general anonymity Evidence Act 1999, which I understand has never been rule. implemented. That section grants anonymity at the Finally, I would like to explain how we intend to take pre-charge stage to persons under 18 years old who are matters forward over the summer. I want to stress that involved in criminal investigations, including suspects. we have been treating this issue as a priority, and we will It already provides a statutory equivalent for children continue to do so. We recognise that the subject is of and young persons to the measures that we have in considerable interest to many people inside and outside mind for adults, and as such is linked to the present the House, and in another place. In the circumstances, it debate. would be undesirable to allow it to slip. Now, for the benefit of the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) and other hon. Members, I Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) should add a final note on the question of research. As (Lab): It is important to put on record that the previous hon. Members will be aware, the director of analytical Government’s position was not the position that the services in the Ministry of Justice has been asked to Minister has described—namely, that rape defendants produce an independent assessment of the current research should have additional separate protection in terms of and statistics on defendant anonymity in rape cases. We anonymity. I also want to ask him to say a little more are aiming to publish this report before the summer about this issue, as it concerns the House greatly. It recess, in the week commencing 26 July. It will cover all would be helpful if he could give us a further explanation the available research and statistics on the subject and is of why the Government think that rape defendants intended to inform the debate. should be treated differently from every other kind of defendant. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Will the Minister clarify whether the published research—which Mr Blunt: I think I have already answered that will be immensely helpful—will include an analysis of question—[HON.MEMBERS: “No, you haven’t!”] I am media coverage, including, for example, statistics on quite happy to accept that I might not have answered it coverage suggesting that the victim was in some way to to the satisfaction of the right hon. Lady and other blame? Or is media coverage to be excluded from the Opposition Members. analysis? Our aim is to set out our detailed position at an early Mr Blunt: I will direct the attention of the director to date. We envisage making a further announcement in the hon. Lady’s remarks, to see whether it is possible to the autumn, as soon as possible after the summer recess. achieve that objective. If we were able to come to In the meantime, we will continue to investigate those intelligent conclusions that would assist the debate, I areas that still require further thought. I have already am sure that that would be useful. We shall have to see discussed the read-across to our commitment regarding whether this will be possible; we will examine the matter teachers, and the scope of the provisions will clearly and try. form a central element of that further work. Over the same period, we also intend to investigate the extent to Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) which research might be required to fill in any gaps. The (LD): I am glad that the Government are listening and one area I have highlighted is whether anonymity might proceeding slowly, but there are other wide-ranging frustrate investigations. On the face of it, that is the issues that I hope are also under consideration. Can the most that is required, but we will reflect carefully. We Minister tell us whether anonymity is being considered will also use the intervening period between now and in the context of all sexual offences, as one category— the autumn to engage the media, which has a key 561 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 562

[Mr Blunt] Looking back at the history of this crime over many decades, it is clear that there has been agonised and interest in the subject. I know the media would like to sometimes passionate debate—in this House and in the be consulted at the earliest available opportunity, and wider society—about how best to deal with rape, how we will take steps to ensure that this happens. In these best to make sure that perpetrators are brought to days of multiple media, we recognise the wisdom of justice and how best to assure women and others that discussing our proposals with broadcasters, as well as they can be protected by our society’s statutory authorities with the more traditional paper-based news industries, from being subjected to this crime. and we will do that. Despite the terrible figures, there is some cause for We will also have discussions with other relevant optimism. Following a great focus on improvements, organisations. At this time, we have not decided exactly the last decade or so has seen some forward movement, who is relevant for this purpose, but I am aware that the and a great deal of effort has been put in by partners, Association of Chief Police Officers has been mentioned statutory and otherwise, across the criminal justice system a number a times in connection with this subject, and who have done good work to bring together their input we will certainly take note of its views in developing our to focus on the key question and to tackle low levels of scheme further. We will speak to specialist voluntary reporting and low levels of conviction. Labour Members sector organisations, the education sector and the children’s accept, as we did when we were in government, that work force with a view to gaining a better idea of the more needs to be done. We can say that reports to the detailed impact on suspects and victims, and we will police have doubled in the last 10 years, which is a good work up practical options for implementation. thing. We can say that there has been a 50% increase in the level of convictions—and the Minister’s figures We see no case, however, for a formal consultation— implied that, although he did not put it in that way. [HON.MEMBERS: “What?”]. The detailed arguments in From charge to conviction, about 58% more have been this area are already well known, and we are not convinced convicted of rape or other sexual offences. that a formal consultation exercise would add value. It is capable of obscuring the real issues, and would certainly Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Does delay matters considerably. That cannot be in anybody’s my hon. Friend accept that there are cases where someone interests. is accused of rape, as a result of which other victims Let me conclude by saying that it is a pleasure to be come forward and the person accused of rape can be able to report real progress on this subject. As I have convicted as a result of that, although he would not said, we look forward to being to announce further have been convicted if the others had not come forward? developments after the summer recess. In other words, the first accusation might not have been completely conclusive, so the anonymity of defendants can lead to more rapists and more rapes. 1.31 pm Maria Eagle: I accept what my hon. Friend says. Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I begin There is no doubt that rape can be a serial offence. by welcoming both the Under-Secretaries of State for Perpetrators of rape often do not stop at one offence; Justice to their ministerial places to discuss this extremely they continue their offending behaviour, so anything important matter, in which there is much interest on all that deters victims or those who have been attacked sides of the House and outside it. The Under-Secretary from coming forward might have the unfortunate effect of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Reigate of making it more difficult to catch serial attackers at (Mr Blunt), made an interesting speech, and I intend to an early stage. It has been recognised for decades that take up some of the points he raised, but let me say that gaining convictions is hard. The Minister read out the we do not disagree in this respect—rape is a heinous figures on attrition rates, to use that shorthand. Those crime that wrecks lives and causes many victims unending figures show how hard it is to convict the guilty, so suffering. anything that makes it harder or deters people from coming forward or anything that makes it more likely Rape is a more prevalent crime than often imagined that they will not believed when they do come forward in the public consciousness. I have here some figures can only be bad for the impact on conviction rates. derived from official statistics. Every week, up to 2,000 women are raped, up to 10,000 are sexually assaulted, Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): I and between 75% and 95% of rapes are not reported to entirely agree with my hon. Friend that there has been the police—these are figures taken from the joint inspection an improvement in approaches to rape, but is not the of the Crown Prosecution Service and Her Majesty’s underlying factor that informs—in my view, informs inspectorate of constabulary. More than a third of all absolutely—what the Government are proposing the rapes recorded by the police are committed against view that rape is an “avoidable” crime? It is assumed, children under the age of 16. As I think the Minister for example, that if the woman had worn a longer skirt recognised at the beginning of his remarks, all that or drunk rather less or had not placed herself in situations shows that this is a matter of huge import, not only to that the external eye regards as dangerous, the rape Government and Opposition Members but to all our could have been avoided. Would not the according of constituents—and particularly, I might say, to women. anonymity to an alleged perpetrator of rape simply Although men are subjected to rape—about 7% of reinforce that total fallacy, which it is so difficult to victims are male—it is overwhelmingly women who the change? victims of this particular offence. I do not intend to ignore the fact that it is not only women who are Maria Eagle: I agree with my hon. Friend that there involved in this type of offence, but, as I say, it is are many myths about rape. It is one of the few crimes overwhelmingly women who are affected. for which victims are frequently blamed, if not by the 563 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 564 statutory authorities, at least by society or certain elements Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): The Minister of society or by those investigating the crime. One made a great deal of the issue of balance, but vulnerable crucial thing we as a society must do if we want to victims are often abused by someone in a position of convict more rapists is tackle all the causes of failure. power, who gets themselves into that position in order We have to encourage those who have been raped to to carry out abuse. The weight of difficulty for victims is report in greater numbers, and we have to ensure that so enormous that equating their situation with that of a the support is there to enable them to go through the defendant is completely erroneous. ordeal of trial and investigations, which can carry on for too long, often for many months. We must also Maria Eagle: I agree with my hon. Friend: equating provide aftercare and support for the victims. Anything the position of the complainant with that of the defendant that detracts from that will not help us as a society to is erroneous. deal with this heinous crime, and a consequence will be The Minister tried to clarify the Government’s policy, that more victims and more families will be affected. We but the coalition Government’s programme set out in should remember that it is often not just the victim nine words, with seemingly admirable succinctness and herself who is affected by the crime and its aftermath clarity, that but the children. We also need to bear in mind the fact “we will extend anonymity in rape cases to defendants”. that many children are themselves victims. However, since its publication, all kinds of outrage, Simon Hughes: I agree that the idea is not to put consternation and surprise have been caused, for two people off, but to encourage them to come forward reasons. First, many people, including me, believe that when a criminal justice process is being gone through. the policy will not help to bring rapists to justice, but Does the hon. Lady agree that, as the police say, it is will do the opposite. I do not think anyone in the House often not the name or physical identity or picture of the would disagree about the need to bring more rapists to suspect that brings people forward but the knowledge justice. of the method of operation? I speak as the MP of John Worboys, who operated as a cab driver. The knowledge Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Is the that the offender was a cab driver was enough to hon. Lady not also conscious of the need to prevent encourage others to come forward. It could be knowledge false accusations against innocent people and the connected that the person committing the offence usually climbs wrongs? through a window at 1 o’clock in the morning. The point is that is often the operation, not identity, that is Maria Eagle: Indeed, I assume that must motivate important. the Government’s policy, but the Minister did not set out in great detail in his speech why the coalition had such a focus. Maria Eagle: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that revealing the modus operandi can bring women forward. This country has a system of open justice, which is Often, women do not want to report, and only when it extremely valuable and an important part of our justice is reported in the media or elsewhere that the person is system. It should be changed only with great thought committing the offence against other women do they and for very good reasons. As anyone who has practised have the courage to come forward. Anything that inhibits the law would be keen to set out, one can be accused of that process can damage efforts to catch serial rapists many crimes that can have an extremely deleterious and to ensure that justice is done and seen to be done. effect on one’s reputation, on one’s standing in society, and on one’s capacity to hold down a job, hold a family Geraint Davies: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for together and live a normal life, whether or not one is giving way twice to me. Is she aware of cases in which, found guilty. Rape is certainly among such crimes, but in response to individual children coming forward to so are murder, downloading child pornography, stealing say that they had been abused by a man running a when one is in a position of trust and many others. teenage football team and by teachers, other members What surprises me about the proposal is that rape, of the football team and the class concerned came rather than all sexual offences, is singled out for such forward with evidence of a multiplicity of abuse, leading treatment. to convictions? If defendants are given anonymity in rape cases, and if teachers are given anonymity in cases Michael Ellis: Will the hon. Lady give way? of sexual abuse, it will lead to more rapes, and it will lead to more rapists, including teachers, being free. Maria Eagle: No, I want to make some progress. The coalition agreement set out the matter clearly. Maria Eagle: I fear that my hon. Friend is correct. In The proposal will not help to bring rapists to justice, a meeting of the all-party group on domestic and sexual and the apparently clear and succinct policy was in violence yesterday, I listened to Chief Constable Dave neither of the coalition parties’ manifestos. Therefore, it Whatton, the Association of Chief Police Officers lead went from not even being important enough to mention on rape, give examples from his force of the phenomenon when seeking votes from the public and a mandate from to which my hon. Friend refers. For example, when the electorate, to being such a major priority for the allegations were published about a particular teacher, Government that it merited a specific mention in the further victims came forward, enabling a conviction coalition programme for government. Why was that? that might not otherwise have happened. Another similar Nobody has told us. I am extremely grateful that we example from his force concerned a vicar. We need to be have this debate, which enables us to explore the matter careful to balance the potential advantages and in more detail. Where did the policy come from? Who disadvantages of the approach that the Government suggested it? Who thought it was a good, or even now say that they will take. workable, idea? Who, if anyone, was consulted about it? 565 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 566

[Maria Eagle] The Minister for Equalities has also supported anonymity up to conviction, blogging that How did it go from being unmentioned at the election, “a perpetrator would only be named if convicted.” by either the Conservative party or the Liberal Democrats, That seems to have changed today. to being a top priority over the weekend of the coalition negotiations? Meanwhile, the Justice Secretary, who appeared to be fed up with being asked the same question more than The Minister tried to explain the proposal in a little once, said in exasperation that it was all the Liberal more detail, but I fear that he has only added to the Democrats’ fault anyway because it was their policy. enormous confusion. Many Opposition Members have The deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats had better raised the matter with a variety of Ministers ever since get used to being blamed for everything by his so-called the coalition programme for government was published. partners in Government. The Justice Secretary went on The acting leader of the Labour party, my right hon. to say that it was not going to happen quickly, although and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and that is not what we have been told by his Under-Secretary Peckham (Ms Harman), raised it at the first Prime of State in the House today. Minister’s Question Time of this Parliament. To say that the Government have responded with confusion The Justice Secretary said that he favoured a free and inconsistency is an understatement. It is not solely vote, or a “fairly free vote”, as he put it. I must remember that Ministers from different parties say different things, to ask the Opposition Chief Whip exactly what a fairly but that the inconsistency and confusion, hardly helped free vote is—or perhaps I should ask the Government by the Minister’s statement today, are much more Chief Whip. widespread. To an interested observed such as me, it Compounding an already complicated and confusing looks like the Government do not have a clue what their picture, a number of Ministers, including the Under- policy is, because they have not taken any steps to work Secretary of State today, have said that they will “bring it out yet. forward options” or are “attracted by the arguments”. They have said, “We will debate it”, or have called for evidence. Perhaps I am missing something about the Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): Much has been new politics that we are told we now have, but I had made of the report by the former Home Affairs Committee, always thought that Governments did those things before and of the current Prime Minister being present when it deciding on policy, not afterwards. This Government took evidence. On 23 April 2003, however, when it took appear to be indulging in prejudice-based rather than evidence on false allegations, he was not present. People evidence-based policy-making. must therefore be careful about laying claim to such knowledge and information. Mr Blunt: The hon. Lady certainly ought to give way at this point, having been part of a Government who Maria Eagle: I was not aware of that, but my right indulged in policy-based evidence-making rather than hon. Friend has put a lot of effort into dealing with the evidence-based policy-making. She is entitled to her issue, and has raised it most consistently and effectively fun, but she should recognise that what I have said from the beginning of this Parliament. today is clearly consistent with the coalition’s programme. It is important to clarify precisely what the Government’s The coalition has listened to the contributions that have policy is. According to the Minister’s statement today, been made, including the questions to my right hon. the policy is to extend anonymity to defendants in rape Friends the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister cases up to charge. However, that has not been entirely and the debate led by her right hon. Friend the Justice evident from what Ministers have said. We have had Secretary. We have reached a view on the appropriateness answers from the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime of the scope, and how the law should be applied. We are Minister, the Home Secretary, the Justice Secretary, the also still asking for evidence relating to the issue that Leader of the House, the Attorney-General, the Minister was raised earlier. The hon. Lady will have to get used for Equalities and the Under-Secretary of State for to the fact that ours is a Government who will actually Justice, the hon. Member for Reigate, which have all listen, and take account of evidence that is promoted. been different in substance and tone. When pressed, the Prime Minister said that he was in favour of extending Maria Eagle: That was a very long intervention, but I anonymity only to charge. The Deputy Prime Minister, hope that the Under-Secretary of State will be as good when pressed, retreated into immediate and wholesale as his word, and will listen. I hope that his travelling on abandonment of the policy, suggesting that the Government the issue has not been completed. He has obviously had merely “proposed the idea”, as if he were running changed his mind: until recently, he was saying that he an academic seminar rather than a legislative programme. wanted anonymity up to conviction, and that it “could He added: go wider” in respect of other offences. Even after his speech, it is still not entirely clear to us precisely where “If our idea does not withstand sincere scrutiny, we will of the Government are. The Justice Secretary made it plain course be prepared to change it.”—[Official Report, 10 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 50.] that this was not a priority, that it would be kicked into the long grass, and that when it did come up there I hope that that, at least, still holds. would be a “fairly free vote”. That is not what we have The Under-Secretary of State, until today, has made been told today. it clear that he wants anonymity up to conviction. Last month he said that Mr Blunt rose— “it could go wider. There are reasons why it might also be applied to other offences.”—[Official Report, 7 June 2010; Vol. 511, Maria Eagle: I will give way to the Under-Secretary c. 155.] of State in a moment. 567 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 568

To reach a conclusion without any consultation—to centres and organisations that deal with victims of rape. decide the policy first and consult afterwards, when the It believes that giving suspects anonymity, whether until effectiveness of the policy and the likelihood of its charge or until conviction, will hamper police investigations, success are such an issue—is not a sensible way of enable serial offenders to evade detection—thus placing proceeding. more women at risk of sexual violence—reinforce erroneous I shall leave aside the difficult task of pinpointing and harmful myths about the prevalence of false reports precisely what the policy is. The position has changed of rape, thereby deterring women from reporting it, and today, but it is still not absolutely clear. What is absolutely send a clear message to women that they are not to be clear is that no one was consulted. There seem to be no believed. It calls on the Government to drop their ideas and no evidence about the impact of what I proposals on anonymity, and instead to focus their believe to be a retrograde and deeply troubling policy. energy where it is needed by concentrating on securing The Ministry of Justice has confirmed in written answers sustainable services for survivors of sexual violence and that no written evidence was considered before the improving the investigation and prosecution of rape. policy was presented. Ministers have met no victims’ The ACPO lead on rape, Chief Constable Dave organisations, rape crisis organisations or members of Whatton—who knows a thing or two about the subject— the judiciary. has said Given that the Under-Secretary said today that there “The proposal to extend anonymity in rape cases beyond would be no consultation, it is clear that Ministers do victims would require primary legislation. ACPO has yet to see not intend to meet and properly consider the views of the detail of the proposals but would welcome being part of the those who know most about the issue and have most to formal consultation process.” say about it. That is a disgrace. Only now, after the Well, apparently there is not going to be a formal policy has been decided, are Ministers analysing options consultation process, although the Under-Secretary did and implications and asking for evidence, and they keep say that he would talk to ACPO, which is at least changing their minds about exactly what the policy is. something. Only now, after the policy has been decided, are they Chief Constable Whatton also said: asking MOJ statisticians to pull together the existing evidence base. Should not the Under-Secretary have “The welfare of rape victims needs to remain a priority. Our done all that before? Of course he should. main concern would be in regard to the impact any changes on anonymity would have on victims, in particular on their confidence I hope that I can help a little bit. I believe, and the to come forward and report rape.” Opposition believe, that it is not in the public interest to It seems to me that the entire focus of the Under-Secretary abandon the principle of open justice when it comes to and the Government on the issue of anonymity for such serious offences as rape. Singling out rape as an defendants in rape cases rests on the level of false offence for which, uniquely, the defendant is granted a reports, although the Under-Secretary said that it did right to anonymity clearly suggests that false accusations not. I think that one of the strongest arguments advanced are widespread, and that victims should be disbelieved by Members on the Government Benches who favour by the criminal justice system, by investigators and by the proposal is the idea that there is a lot of false juries. That will deter people from reporting rape, which reporting. The last Home Office research on that was in the Under-Secretary says he does not wish to do. 2005 and it suggested that the true figure was closer to Michael Ellis: Will the hon. Lady give way? 3% than the 8 to 10% that has been stated. However, false reporting is obviously a concern for those who are Maria Eagle: Not at this point. falsely accused, and it must be tackled. There is no disagreement between us on that. The question is whether In fact, people accused of sexual crimes should not the best way to tackle this is to allow anonymity for be treated any differently from other defendants. If the anybody who might be accused of any kind of offence, Under-Secretary singles out rape from all other sexual including all the people who are guilty. We argue that offences, let alone offences of violence, he will send a that would lead to less reporting and less ability to clear signal that there is a reason for his action. That convict the guilty. will impinge on victims’ capacity to come forward and the likelihood that they will do so, which will in turn impinge on the conviction rate. Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend agree that it is important to The argument that there should be anonymity for draw a distinction between acquittal and false allegation? defendants because there is anonymity for complainants Rape is a difficult crime to prosecute and juries will is a false one. There is a public interest in bringing sometimes not convict, and that is right, but that does rapists to justice. A victim is a witness to a crime, not not mean that the complainant lied. simply another party to a family law case or a civil case in which some kind of equivalence might be seen between parties. Rape is often a serial crime, and it is often only Maria Eagle: That is right; my hon. Friend makes an after many crimes that a perpetrator is brought to extremely important point. There are very few examples court. Previous victims often come forward at that of malicious reporting. When the public talk about point. That can be essential to the securing of a conviction, false reporting, they are often really referring to malicious but the Under-Secretary’s policy is likely to make it less reporting, which we all agree is a perversion of the efficacious. course of justice, and can be, and is, charged as such Many organisations have contacted Members about where it is discovered. the proposed policy, including Rights of Women. It has We must make it clear that in the current context endorsed a statement signed by 50 leading women’s and anonymity in effect means reporting restrictions. What human rights organisations, including many rape crisis we are talking about, therefore, is not an objective 569 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 570

[Maria Eagle] seriously as we now do in our society—and I hope we will continue to do so—children who made allegations descent of anonymity on to a named individual, but were frequently disbelieved, with the result that abuse, inhibiting our free press from reporting matters of including sometimes serious sexual abuse, continued for public interest. I had a word with the Newspaper Society years. That destroyed lives, and we left vulnerable children about what it thinks about that. completely unable to be protected because of then attitudes about whether to believe what they said. Any Michael Ellis rose— signal—and this Government have given a number of them—that we are reverting to that practice is extremely Maria Eagle: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. retrograde. I do not believe that getting rid of the rigour of the Michael Ellis: The hon. Lady is very generous. There barring and vetting scheme, which arose out of the are already episodes in our criminal justice system Bichard report into the Soham murders, sends a good where names are withheld. Her former Government signal about safeguarding children. I do not believe that enacted terrorist offences legislation that allowed the abandoning ContactPoint sends a good signal about names of defendants to be withheld, and for “A”, “B” the intention to safeguard children. I do not believe we or “C”, for instance, to be used instead. There are also should add in anonymity in all circumstances for teachers thousands of youth trials every year in which the names against any allegation made, and perhaps for a wider of young people are withheld, and that has been the range of school staff, because why stop at teachers? case for decades. This step would not be unique, therefore. Why not school caretakers as well, and dinner ladies, teaching assistants, or any other number of staff in Maria Eagle: We do not, however, say in respect of schools? I do not believe that sending that signal can any crime that there should be a generalised anonymity possibly help us safeguard children in this country. It is for defendants. Particularly for the crime under discussion, a retrograde step. I do not believe we have seen any real that is what would lead to the deleterious side effects I evidence, thought or policy development that has led to have been outlining. Having looked into this matter, I those specific nine words and the other paragraph about do not think the downsides of granting anonymity just teacher anonymity in the coalition agreement. in respect of rape could possibly justify the impact on I believe the Government are undertaking a calamitous the very few instances of malicious reporting that it and retrograde march backwards into the past. Given seems that there are—we do not know the precise the range of views that there clearly is among Ministers, number. I believe there is still time for the Government to think The Newspaper Society says that the law should about this, and to do better than they are proposing. I remain unchanged; the victims of alleged sexual offences believe they should think again about consultation, as are protected against identification during their lifetimes, this kind of policy should be properly consulted upon. but even those restrictions can be waived or lifted by the The experts out there in our society dealing with these court in specific circumstances. It thinks the Government’s situations every day, whether in schools or in our criminal proposals are potentially far-reaching, and that that is justice system, deserve and need to be asked by this fuelled by an imprecision in how they are set out. It Government what they think the impact of these policy thinks they could prevent the release, exchange, suggestions would be. dissemination and publication of material, and that Given that the Minister’s boss, the Secretary of State they could prevent investigation and reporting, including for Justice, clearly signalled to the House that this in respect of accuracy and legal checks, despite the real policy is not on the list for early legislation, and given public interest in that being done. It also thinks they that he clearly signalled that he intended his party to could fuel rumour and malicious gossip that is not just have a fairly free vote when it was brought before the confined to the actual subject of the allegations, rather House, the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member than prevent or curb that. It said, too, that the written for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), should say to the House statement on teacher anonymity was very imprecise, in winding up, “We will consult. We will take this away. and that it is against it because of its imprecision and We will think again. We will have evidence-based policy the potential impact on the capacity of a free press to making, not prejudice-based policy making.” I urge do its job. him to do so.

Meg Munn: I wanted to raise the following matter Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): May I remind with the Minister, but he would not give way to me. I am Members that there is a 12-minute limit on speeches? unclear as to whether we are talking about anonymity for any accusation, such as a teacher being suspended in a disciplinary situation, or only for any criminal matters, 2.9 pm such as rape. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I cannot hope to match the rhetoric of the new Members Maria Eagle: I agree that some imprecision remains, who have spoken before me with such great passion in and we would have many questions about the Government’s their maiden speeches. I thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, intentions. One can understand, of course, that teachers for giving me the opportunity to speak in this debate. I who are maliciously accused of things have a terrible am not quite the last of the new intake of Members to time. There is absolutely no doubt about that, but if the get off the mark, although the list of those who have suggestion is that we revert to not believing children not done so is gradually diminishing. May I also when they make allegations of abuse, that is a very congratulate you, Mr Deputy Speaker, on the excellent dangerous and retrograde step. For too many years in and fair way in which you have presided over this the past, before we took safeguarding children quite as Chamber? 571 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 572

I wish to start my maiden speech by paying tribute to am delighted to make my maiden speech in this debate my predecessor, Paul Clark, who was elected to this on something that has rightly for many years now House in 1997, when he overturned a 16,000-plus concerned this House, namely bringing to justice those Conservative majority. Paul was a local boy, who grew who commit sexual offences, which are some of the up in Gillingham and cared passionately about Gillingham most serious crimes on the statute book. In so doing, we and Rainham. He served on the Back Benches of this must take care when addressing and balancing the House, as well as on the Front Benches as a Transport competing interests of the victim against the rights of a Minister. I wish him well in whatever the future holds defendant, who stands accused and is innocent until for him. proven guilty. It is a great privilege and honour to represent Gillingham One of the foremost issues that needs to be urgently and Rainham, which has been my home since I was six considered is the low conviction rate in such cases, upon years old; I attended Richmond infant school, Napier which considerable work has been done by successive primary school, Fort Luton high school for boys and Governments. However in so doing, we may have then the Chatham grammar school for girls sixth form—yes, unwittingly crossed the line while balancing that issue I did say Chatham grammar school for girls. Being the against not only the right of the defendant to a fair only boy in a class of 20 girls has its challenges, but I trial, but, more controversially, the thorny question as must say that it was an excellent experience. In all, I was to whether there should be a right—and if so, to what very fortunate to have some dedicated teachers throughout extent it should apply—in relation to the protection of my education, who inspired me to be the first in my the identity of defendants accused of and charged with family to go to university. I was able to read law at the sexual offences of all categories of such serious crimes. university of Wales in Aberystwyth, which led me to In particular, recent experience has demonstrated qualify as a barrister, and this firmly instilled in me the that there are, unfortunately, occasions when defendants values of fighting for justice, both as a defence and have, often for myriad complex reasons, been unjustly prosecuting advocate. and falsely accused of sexual crimes. Extreme suffering Gillingham and Rainham is a great constituency. is caused to victims as well as to those falsely accused in Even in 55BC, when conquering Britain and passing these cases, thus it is necessary to address these questions through the area, Julius Caesar paid tribute to the men and face the challenges that they present head on. The of Kent as the most civilised—I agree with him entirely. low conviction rate in cases involving sexual offences is The towns, which have strong naval and military ties, thought by many who practise in this field to be often are home to the Royal Engineers and are steeped in due to the length of time between the commission of history. Both General Gordon and Lord Kitchener the offence and the date of trial. This not only leads to have links with the Royal School of Military Engineering. injustice in relation to memory recall, but causes Currently, the Royal Engineers have two regiments serving considerable additional suffering to the victim while in Afghanistan, and our constituency is very proud of they await resolution of the same. the brave and courageous men and women who are Some European jurisdictions have sought to address there on active service. Many Victoria crosses, from these issues by designating certain courts as exclusive both world wars, have been awarded to those with rape and domestic violence courts, solely concerned connections to Gillingham and Rainham, notably Major with the hearing of such cases. Those courts are specifically James McCudden from the first world war and Lieutenant designed to hear video evidence, the staff are sympathetically Eugene Esmonde, of the Naval Air Service, from the trained and the courts are victim-friendly—for example, second world war. they ensure that the risk of accused and accuser unwittingly Although 400 years of naval heritage presence has meeting is reduced to a minimum. As a result, cases are now gone, it is still a matter of pride that Lord Nelson heard within a very short time of allegations being joined his first ship in the very dockyard where his made, evidence is fresh and the statistics demonstrate famous flagship Victory was built. All that makes me that conviction rates have risen. very proud to represent Gillingham and Rainham, but The needs of true victims in allegations of sexual there is also an international link, because Will Adams, offences are always in the forefront of our minds when who travelled to Japan in 1598, was the first British we legislate in this House, just as they are uppermost in sailor to travel to Japan—he was also from Gillingham. the minds of those on whom we rely to dispense justice It would be remiss of me not to mention that Gillingham fairly on a daily basis in our courts: the judiciary of is home to a great football team, the Gills, although I England and Wales. Our judiciary have been admired have to say that watching the Gills is a bit like living life for generations and used as a model in many evolving on the edge—one just never knows what is going to democracies. We are justly proud of their work and it is happen next. This is often reported in the excellent local time that we acknowledged our faith in them by restoring newspapers, the Medway Messenger, Medway News, to the courts some of the important discretion that had and Your Medway. traditionally always been entrusted to them by this Gillingham and Rainham are part of the Medway House, but that has, unfortunately, been eroded by the unitary authority, an efficient, well-run Conservative previous Government in many areas, for example, in council, which for the past 10 years has been very sentencing policy. effectively led by Councillor Rodney Chambers and its The effect on those falsely accused of serious sexual chief executive, Neil Davies. I am very much looking offences by the publication of their names and the forward to 2012 and the Queen’s jubilee, when I hope revelation of their identities in the media can have that Medway will rightly be given city status. long-term and far-reaching disastrous unintended As a former barrister who both prosecuted and defended consequences. In April, a taxi driver who worked for a in criminal cases at all levels and who passionately firm in my constituency was cleared of rape at Maidstone believes in obtaining justice for the victims of crime, I Crown court. The story had been reported on the front 573 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 574

[Rehman Chishti] team, and he becomes, of course, the most famous graduate of Chatham grammar school for girls. That page of the Medway Messenger, the largest circulating kind of story is almost new Labour. local newspaper in the area. It was only on the day of I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will make a huge the trial—months later—with the defendant waiting in contribution to this House. We on the Opposition Benches anguish, that the two supposed victims admitted that and, I am sure, Members on his side look forward to his they had made up and falsely invented the serious eloquence in future debates. I wish him well in what I allegation in order to avoid having to pay a taxi fare. am sure will be a long parliamentary career. He was They were later jailed for two years. The consequences right to mention Paul Clark. Paul—or Mr Clark, or for the wrongly accused defendant have been nothing whatever we call former Members of the House—had a short of disastrous as a result of the publication of his very small majority. We would have been delighted if identity in the media. The concept of “mud sticks” is Paul had won again, but the hon. Gentleman has turned alive and kicking. He and others like him in the future the majority into five figures. We wish Paul Clark well deserve some measure of protection, as I believe we still in his career; he was a very popular Member and was have a system of justice in this country, of which we are admired and liked on both sides of the House. justly proud, in which the accused is innocent until proved guilty on conviction by his peers. If safeguards This debate, like all debates in the House, is very are required to re-enforce that in sexual offences cases important. I am speaking only because the Home Affairs until conviction, in order to balance these competing Committee has been mentioned on numerous occasions. interests, they should be put in place as a matter of The Prime Minister has mentioned the deliberations of urgency. the Select Committee in 2003, when he was a member, and Members on both sides of the House have referred I immediately acknowledge the arguments in favour to that, so I felt it appropriate to inform the House of of the publication of the identities of those accused of what the Select Committee decided when it conducted serious sexual offences, such as that that might encourage an investigation into this important matter seven years others to come forward. However, that approach does ago. fly in the face of the presumption of innocence and presumes that anyone accused has done this before. We The Prime Minister was a member of the Committee should examine the statistics carefully in trying to balance at that stage, but I did not know until my right hon. these crucial and diametrically opposed interests. Neither Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) should be sacrificed in the interests of the other without mentioned it in her intervention that he was not present the most careful consideration. when the evidence was taken. However, as a former member she will know that it is not vital to be there Section 39 of the Children and YoungPersons Act 1933 when evidence is taken so long as one is part of deliberations has served us well in relation to the publication of the on the proceedings. I say that in the presence of one new name, address or any other particulars calculated to member of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for lead to the identification of any child or young person Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood). We who is involved in criminal proceedings, including those look forward to the Government’s tabling the order to on sexual offences. A court has complete discretion to set up the Select Committee so that we can meet and hear anybody in support of or in opposition to an start to discuss these matters—I know that the Minister application pursuant to the section and consideration is no longer a Whip, so he has no control over these should be given to the extension of it automatically to matters. This is certainly one of the issues that we will include all those accused of serious sexual offences, want to consider. allowing a judge to lift such a restriction in appropriate cases until conviction. A restriction until charge does The hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham came not go far enough, as the test for charging is a “reasonable up with the crucial point that was perhaps missing from prospect of conviction” and thus far lower than the the Minister’s speech. Why is it necessary to extend standard required for conviction by a jury. anonymity just for those who have been accused of rape up until the time of charge? That is what the Select In other words, we should trust our judiciary to Committee said and I will read verbatim from our maintain the balance in any case, having carefully considered recommendations in the course of my speech. It is for the competing arguments. We must also do everything those cases in which people feel that they are falsely we can to bring to justice those who commit such accused and turn out to be falsely accused, and the huge serious crimes. level of publicity that occurs as a result of such cases. In a sense, we should include the Secretary of State for 2.19 pm Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport and the shadow Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): It is an enormous Minister in these discussions, because what concerns pleasure for me to follow the maiden speech of the hon. Members of this House who are worried about the issue Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti), is the fact that people can make false accusations and as which I thought was excellent. I first met the hon. a result whole lives can be destroyed—not just the lives Gentleman on his first day on the House and I did what of the people who have been falsely accused but those every old Member does to every young Member—no, of their families, too. not that! I asked him when he was going to give his As the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member maiden speech, and I kept asking him week after week. for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle), said in what He said that he was going to save it for a really important I thought was the finest speech that she has given in this debate and he was right to do so. He spoke with great House on any subject, these are important issues that eloquence and enormous passion about his constituency. need to be discussed and explored properly. That is why He cleverly named all three local newspapers, the leader I think that the Government should pause, having stated and deputy leader of his council and his local football their position clearly, as the Minister has. There is a 575 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 576 need to pause, because this decision has implications Geraint Davies: Does my right hon. Friend feel that not just for rape cases but for the whole criminal justice there is an equivalence between the sort of case being system. discussed, in which someone is accused and found I would probably be described as a conservative with innocent, and someone being raped? We seem to be a small c, because I believe passionately that those who making out that there is some sort of equivalence, but are falsely accused are also victims. I do not mean those surely there is not. are acquitted because there is not sufficient evidence, but those who are maliciously—I think that this point Keith Vaz: No, there is not an equivalence—that was made—falsely accused of rape or any other crime takes the debate in the wrong way, and we need to be or misdemeanour. It is a terrible thing to be falsely careful and temperate in the language that we use. accused when those accusations are not put to the There is no equivalence, but we should not forget about relevant person and they are not given a chance properly those who are falsely and maliciously accused but have to respond. Unfortunately, that is how the criminal not committed an offence of that kind. The newspapers justice system works at the moment. revel in reporting allegations about offences of a sexual We need to think very carefully before we make any nature because it titillates the editorial writers in our extension. I am not saying that the Government have tabloid papers. We should not forget how awful it is for not made their case, because, as I shall show when I someone to have a malicious rumour spread against read out the Select Committee’s recommendations, it is them, but that is in no way equivalent to the rape of a entirely in accordance with what the Committee man a woman, which is a terrible crime. I think that all recommended in 2003. My right hon. Friend the Member hon. Members in the House agree on that. for Don Valley, who has read the transcripts will correct Let me read the recommendations of the Select me if I am wrong, but I understand that the decision Committee in 2003. I shall not read all of them—just was unanimous. Given the personalities who have sat the couple that are relevant to what we are discussing. on the Home Affairs Committee in the past 10 years, The Committee said: including our most distinguished former member, the “On balance, we are persuaded by the arguments in favour of Prime Minister, it is quite difficult to get unanimity, extending anonymity to the accused. Although there are valid especially on issues of this kind, so we should not concerns about the implications for the free reporting of criminal dismiss absolutely what the Committee said in 2003. proceedings, we believe that sex crimes do fall ‘within an entirely Indeed, we should use it as the basis of a period of different order’ to most other crimes. In our view, the stigma that attaches to sexual offences—particularly those involving children—is wider consultation. enormous and the accusation alone can be devastating. If the accused is never charged, there is no possibility of the individual Mr Blunt: Perhaps I should be clear about the consultative being publicly vindicated by an acquittal.” process. We will not be having a period of formal The second relevant recommendation is: consultation with all that that entails, but we will have a “We therefore recommend that the reporting restriction, which process whereby people will be able to contribute and currently preserves the anonymity of complainants of sexual listen. When we put out our research analysis, there will offences, be extended to persons accused of those offences. We be another opportunity for that. If we need to go down suggest, however, that the anonymity of the accused be protected the statutory route, there will not, as my right hon. only for a limited period between allegation and charge. In our Friend the Secretary of State said, be an immediate view, this strikes an appropriate balance between the need to opportunity to do so. protect potentially innocent suspects from damaging publicity and the wider public interest in retaining free and full reporting of criminal proceedings.” Keith Vaz: That is most helpful. I am not sure whether From what the Minister said today, I gather that is what the Minister has given us a timetable for the consultation the Government are suggesting. Even though I was not period, but perhaps his colleague, the other Under-Secretary chairing the Committee at the time, it would be totally of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Huntingdon churlish for me to say that the Select Committee got it (Mr Djanogly), will do so when he winds up. The wrong. Minister has given a timetable for the independent study into research that he is conducting, although I am not sure how independent that research will be if it is Ms Bagshawe: Can the right hon. Gentleman confirm done by a director at the Ministry of Justice. If it is that the recommendations he read out referred to all to be called an independent inquiry, it might be sexual offences, including those involving children, and appropriate for it to be done by a former High Court rape was not in fact singled out? judge or a serving judge rather than a civil servant—not that I cast any aspersions on the officials in my former Keith Vaz: The hon. Lady is absolutely right, which is Department, who were all fine people. They have all the why I would be keen for the Committee to revisit the minutes from previous Ministers’ meetings, so we must issue. I shall try to make a deal on the Floor of the never cast aspersions on our former civil servants. The House with the Minister, if he is open to deals. As a inquiry probably will not be as independent as one former Whip, I am sure he is used to such things. A would hope, and I hope that the Minister will reconsider member of the Select Committee is in the Chamber. that issue. The Committee has not yet met although it will do so I am with the Minister, however, regarding the fact for the first time next week if the Government table the that someone will be looking at the research that has motion that sets us up—I cannot think why the Government been conducted or that will be conducted in the next have not yet set up the Select Committees. few weeks. That is what the Stern inquiry suggested—proper, Will the Government please give us the opportunity appropriate research into the false allegations issue—and to examine defendant anonymity again, in the light of that will be helpful. what was said in 2003, in the light of their proposals 577 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 578

[Keith Vaz] I have one more deliberative point. There may be a case for relevant Select Committees to meet jointly to and in the light of the fact that there will not be the all look at this matter, because clearly there is a home singing and dancing consultation that my hon. Friend affairs issue and a justice issue. I hope that when the the shadow Minister wanted? Will the Government give Committees are set up, the two Committees might think us the opportunity to look at the evidence that civil of doing the work together, instead of doing two separate servants at the Ministry of Justice are preparing? Let us bits of work. That would be the logical thing to do. deliberate so that we can come back to the House, I say very clearly that before I entered the House—now perhaps this year—if the Committee agrees; I am not a long time ago—I was a practising barrister and both trying to get the Committee to do anything, because it is defended and prosecuted in serious sexual offences a Committee decision—with a firm set of proposals cases, including rape cases. That work, my work as a that the whole House can discuss, rather than rushing youth worker and my work as an MP—which has things through. That would allow the whole House to included dealing with some of the most horrendous deliberate and would enable us to look at what we said cases of rape of people who have come to see me in the past in the light of the evidence of the past seven themselves, or of their daughters—have made me absolutely years. clear about the need to get the law right, and to ensure Others will come to the House in future and say that above that all we achieve the first objective: the perpetrators if we extend anonymity for a particular offence we must of these most horrendous of crimes are brought to look at the whole criminal justice system and extend it justice. There have been too many failings of the criminal for other offences. There is a powerful argument for justice system as a result of which that objective has not doing that, so that such matters are kept before the been achieved. courts, and not decided by the Daily Mail and the Daily I have had to nurse several families through the fact Express. Sometimes, newspapers trash people’s reputations that the criminal justice system has failed and let them as no court proceedings could do—I am not speaking down—sometimes with traumatic consequences for the personally of course. individual, who as an adult has not been able to carry I hope that the Government will think again. Perhaps on trusting the system or other people. The hon. Member when the Minister winds up, he will give Parliament the for Garston and Halewood was right to say that very opportunity to examine these matters more carefully. nearly all the people concerned are women—more than 90%—but occasionally there are men too, and we should not forget that such things could happen to anyone. 2.33 pm Meg Munn: The hon. Gentleman is making a very Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) thoughtful speech. Does he agree that when there are (LD): I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the repeat offences it is important that people are brought debate. I compliment the right hon. Member for Leicester to justice early, because that in itself becomes a protective East (Keith Vaz) on his speech. I shall come back to the measure for potential future victims? content, but I largely agree with what he said and would like to add to his arguments. Simon Hughes: I absolutely agree with that. I was My hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and very critical, publicly and in the House, of the fact that Rainham (Rehman Chishti) ticked all the maiden speech it took so long for Ian Huntley to be brought to justice boxes, and I congratulate him on that—except for his for the Soham murders, given that although he had not bigging up of Gillingham. Gillingham regularly plays been convicted before, he was on the radar of the police Millwall, and Millwall often wins, so he cannot expect in Lincolnshire, I think, and on Humberside, before he my support for the Gills, although as I go to many moved to Cambridgeshire. I was also very critical of the games I shall look out for him and entertain him fact that John Worboys, who lived in my constituency, willingly if he comes to any games at the Den. was not brought to court until he had committed at The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria least 70 offences. I think that the police have gradually Eagle) made a comprehensive speech, on which I learned the lesson and are improving their system, as compliment her. Like the right hon. Member for Leicester the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), East, she covered the ground well. She combined passion who has relevant ministerial experience, knows, but it with warnings that we must proceed carefully, as I shall took a lot of work to get the police to change attitude seek to do in my few remarks. and to take these issues much more seriously all the The Government are to be congratulated on having time. There have been many cases relating to offences in brought the matter to debate early in the Parliament, my constituency and elsewhere—in the latest one, a and I thank my the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, man who was a serial offender was arrested in relation my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt),on to offences in south-west London—where the pattern doing so. He and his colleagues said they would do it of serial offending was such that clearly there could and and they have. It is right that the Government are trying should have been earlier intervention; the hon. Member to ensure that the voices of Parliament and those who for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) is quite right. communicate with us are heard, without having to hold Without repeating what others have said, let me a formal, national 12-month or two-year consultation. quickly remind hon. Members of how we got to this We can have proper processes of deliberation, and my point. In 1976, we legislated to give anonymity to understanding is that we have plenty of time, because complainants in rape cases. That was extended to other the proposal is not in this year’s legislative programme. sex offences in 1992. In 1976 we legislated to give It was not in the Queen’s Speech, so we have at least a anonymity to defendants in rape cases for the period year to see where we want to go. until 1988, when the law was then changed. After a 579 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 580 period of just under 12 years, the law went back to victims should be examined only by properly qualified where it was before, and where it remains. Since then, forensic specialists who are trained in examining rape despite the Sexual Offences Act 2003, which was a victims. A national rape helpline should be established. major piece of legislation, we have not changed the law Special awareness training and education should be in this area. The same year, the Home Affairs Committee given to police officers and health and social care came up with its recommendation that we should change professionals to support male victims of rape. We opposed the law, but we have not done so, and it was against that the Sentencing Guidelines Council’s proposals to allow background that my party—it is not a secret—had a the avoidance of jail for the perpetrators of rape if they long debate specifically on rape at the 2006 Liberal show remorse. Democrat conference, because of the concern about the low number of convictions. That was what precipitated Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman the debate, and I want to share its conclusion because, give way? yes, the source of this policy is indeed my party’s Simon Hughes: I hope that the hon. Lady will allow deliberation. me to continue just for a second. We noted that the rate of conviction is only about We requested that the Home Office commission a 5%—a figure that we have often heard and that is much new study of why there is such a low conviction rate in lower than that in many other places in Europe. Reported England and Wales. We suggested a public information rape is rising every year, but successful prosecutions are campaign to close the gap between the perception and not rising; indeed, they are falling. The number of the reality of rape. Only lastly did we suggest a change rapists who are given a caution and freed almost doubled in the law—agreed after debate, discussion and a vote in the previous decade. The health-related costs of rape by a majority—to prohibit the media from identifying are phenomenal, let alone the other social costs. The anyone directly or indirectly about whom a complaint Sentencing Guidelines Council allowed the perpetrators of rape has been made, and until such time as they have of rape to avoid jail if they showed remorse—not been convicted. something that I would ever countenance. Amnesty It was therefore not surprising that the Government International produced a worldwide report that challenged have looked at the issue, even though I accept that it was the perception—this point was made by the hon. Member in neither the Liberal Democrat nor the Conservative for Hampstead and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson)—about manifesto. The public did not, therefore, become engaged self-induced offences and said that it was far from the on the matter in the election campaign. I am not defending truth in most cases. Clearly, such offences are as far the fact that the proposals are in the coalition agreement, from any other from being self-induced. but saying clearly that I am sure that if the outcome of We also flagged up the tainting of those who were this deliberation and the response to the Government’s accused and then acquitted. I want to step back for a policy proposal, which came from the Liberal Democrats, second. I am sure that colleagues on both sides of the is a consensus in the House and around the country not House know that the people who are most vilified in to proceed, both parties are open to persuasion along prison and those in the community who are viewed with that line. most suspicion are those accused and either convicted I want us to go deliberatively, because there is a or not convicted of the most serious sexual offences—more strong case for changing the law, but it is not a cut-and-dried, so than other offences of violence, apart from the most open-and-shut case. I hope that the rest of the debate is horrible ones, such as child murder or domestic violence much less partisan than the beginning of it, because this and the rest. is not a party political issue—[Interruption.] It is absolutely not a party political issue. People outside would not Kate Green: I accept that the vilification of sex offenders understand if we took partisan positions, and I absolutely inside and outside our prisons is a factor of which we encourage the Government to think like the Lord must be mindful, but it is important that we have more Chancellor, who was right that a non-whipped vote information on different experiences of sexual offence. would be entirely appropriate. I am in favour of many The vilification of sexual offenders who have committed more such votes on such matters, which are not proprietarily offences against, for example, children is quite different the view of one ideological group or the next. in my experience from how the media and the public respond to sexual offences against women—particularly, Glenda Jackson rose— for example, young women who have been drinking or Simon Hughes: Let me make my other comments. If I who are known to their attackers. have time to give way to the hon. Lady at the end, I will do so very willingly. Simon Hughes: I accept entirely what the hon. Lady I want to address succinctly two wider issues that says. She is right, which is why we need to proceed with have been touched on. We must deal with the objective caution. These areas are both sensitive and ones in of maximising the number of people brought to justice which there is still prejudice and misinformation, and it for both rape and other serious sexual offences, but we is very important to distinguish between different categories must also achieve the second objective of avoiding the of offence and activity. harmful stigma of such allegations, which can often We did not debate the whole issue of anonymity in lead to suicide, attempted suicide and the like, for which the criminal justice system, nor other ranges of offence, there is evidence. There are therefore two big criminal but we concluded that a whole raft of changes should justice issues for our country—this is an England and be made, only one of which was the proposal for Wales issue. We need firstly to decide whether open anonymity. We suggested making more progress with justice—the principle that the hon. Member for Garston special prosecutors for rape cases and an expansion in and Halewood said should be our starting point, as it the number of sexual assault referral centres. Rape should—should be circumscribed at all. At the moment, 581 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 582

[Simon Hughes] circle. I refer to the past, but from contemporary reports we know that this still goes on. The scandal of what has we have done that for complainants in certain offences, happened in the Catholic Church continues to reverberate. but should we circumscribe open justice at all in relation The central essential there was the idea that secrecy was to defendants? We could either do that for the category all, and so the imbalance of power between the abused that I would call sexual offences against other people, and the abuser was reinforced. That is my fear about by which I mean violent sexual assaults, which are not this proposal and the selection of rape as the only all rapes, or we could propose anonymity for other violent act that is afforded this kind of anonymity. types of assault. I do not believe that there would be a In his opening remarks, the Minister said—forgive case for inclusion for any other violent offences, and I me for paraphrasing, but I cannot remember his exact am also not persuaded that child pornography or other words—that it is now an accepted absolute that acts of such offences should be included. However, there may violence against women are anathema, and that everybody be a case for anonymity in cases involving sexual in this country, this House, the criminal justice system offences—of any type—against another. and the police service are automatically appalled by The second question is on the limitation of the period acts of violence against women and, as a result, are of anonymity. Should we have a very limited period of immediately on the front foot, exercising all their abilities, anonymity, for example, up until charge, a longer period, talents and resources to track down whomsoever commits which could last to the beginning of the trial, or the such heinous acts. We all know that that is absolute longest period, which would be up to the end of the trial fantasy. We are witnessing at the moment one of the and conviction? largest manhunts that this country has ever seen to try I should like us to look very carefully and deliberatively to track down a man who, it is alleged, has murdered at those two sets of options. Are we talking only about one individual and shot at and injured two others. He rape or about a wider set of sexual, serious, violent boasted before he left prison of what he planned to do. I offences? Should anonymity last only for the period have no doubt that prison officials were very busy, but I between arrest and charge or for longer? My hon. am equally sure that it went into that little pocket—although Friend the Minister and the Government want to listen it is getting bigger and bigger in my view—of something to the voices and hear about the research. I hope that called “a domestic” in the criminal justice and police the House can do its duty properly and ensure that we system. All it needed was for those officials in the prison come to the right conclusion. That will need a bit of to take the threats seriously, to ring the alleged perpetrator’s time, but let us please not be overly partisan about it. local police station so that the police there could take those threats seriously themselves, and perhaps the largest 2.48 pm manhunt in British history would never have needed to take place. Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): There is still, as I said in an earlier intervention, a The hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark prevailing view in this country that incidents of rape, (Simon Hughes) hopes that this will be a non-partisan for example, are the fault of the victim—[Interruption.] debate. The speeches that we have listened to this afternoon Members opposite may groan and moan, but it is not so have been non-partisan in a party political sense. However, long ago— I remember it distinctly—that a judge who in relation to the policy that his Government are presenting, summed up in a rape case advised the victim of the rape there is a marked lack of evidence that the proposed that she should perhaps have worn a longer skirt. I am change is necessary, or that it would bring about any sure that that would never happen now, but I think that kind of improvement in convictions for rape, which, if I people still have similar thought processes. understood him, was at the centre of his argument. Anna Soubry: We all agree that there should be more The hon. Gentleman also hoped that given the amount argument based on evidence. Where is the hon. Lady’s of time the Government are affording to the debate, evidence for the assertion that people still have those decisions would come about by consensus in the House views of those who make complaints of rape? and the country. How can there possibly be any consensus in the country if his Government do not enter into the Glenda Jackson: I am sorry, but I did not catch the widest, deepest and most detailed consultation? The end of the hon. Lady’s question. I will give her direct question remains: why have his Government selected evidence of a constituency case of mine, in which a the offence of rape? Why should alleged perpetrators of woman had been systematically abused by her partner. rape alone, among alleged perpetrators of other crimes The law acted and an injunction was laid, meaning that of violence, be afforded anonymity? Answer has come the perpetrator of the offences was not allowed within a there none. certain distance of their home. What happened? His As we heard in the excellent speech by my hon. brothers took over. It is a fantasy to think that everyone Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria in this country regards acts of violence against women Eagle), the implications of that proposal are wider if we as totally beyond the pale. Let us take honour killings, go down that road. She touched on the issue of affording for instance. Does she seriously think that people who anonymity to teachers, and the hon. Gentleman’s are genuinely opposed to acts of violence against women Government have again come up with no detail of the would enter into an honour killing? alleged offence that a teacher might have committed. Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): Does the hon. She gave the graphic example—and we all know about Lady not accept that there is a huge danger, in this this—of children who had been abused not only by debate and any consultation process, of this becoming a teachers, but by members of their family or other battle of the sexes and a gender issue, when clearly it is people in authority, and the automatic response of not? Defendant anonymity and surrounding issues are society at the time had been to disbelieve the children, about trying to impose fairness for all in the criminal with the result that the abuse continued in an ever wider justice system. 583 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 584

Glenda Jackson: With all due respect to the hon. position, but what the Government are proposing and Gentleman, the evidence presented in the Chamber— their lack of commitment to wide consultation cause obviously he is not the only person on the Conservative me grave concern. Benches obsessed with evidence-based decisions—shows My hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood that rape is exercised almost exclusively against women, (Maria Eagle), speaking from the Opposition Front so there is a gender base. Bench, made a salient point when she raised the issue of freedom of the press. That is another issue that we must Anna Soubry: Some 40% of all rape complainants are consider deeply before we make any changes. However, either male or children, and of the 60% who are aged I return to the point that I made slightly earlier, and over 16 and female, we do not know—we do not have which reinforces my contention that we are still insufficiently the statistics—how many made a complaint about adamant or active and that insufficient resources are something that happened to them when they were children. put into tackling the broader issue of acts of violence It is unfortunate that we do not have those statistics against women. I gave the example of the recent incident after 13 years of a Labour Government. where three women were brutally murdered and every single news outlet began its report of the event with the Glenda Jackson: We have already established that, as words, “Three prostitutes”. far as children are concerned, we are all in absolute I also think that Dr Shipman would perhaps not have agreement. That is why the question has been asked: got away with his mass murder if his victims had been why has an alleged rapist been afforded the privilege of young women, as opposed to middle-aged or elderly anonymity, but someone who, for example, has been women, because there would undoubtedly have been a downloading child pornography has not? It has not desire on the part of the press—well, perhaps “desire” is been explained to me why rape is the act being afforded an extreme word—to present the case as though these this particular privilege. I would argue that, if the particular acts against women had a sexual undertone. Government go down this road, they will deeply undermine In my view there is still this prevailing attitude—it the concept of the unacceptability of rape and general might not be directly acknowledged, but it permeates so acts of violence against women. Far too often, we hear many aspects of the criminal justice system and law of cases in which, for example, a woman has laid before enforcement—when it comes to acts of violence against the police the serious threats she is facing daily from an women, for the immediate reaction is to say, “We have ex-partner. We then read that the police did absolutely to be careful about this.” nothing about it. We know of terrible incidents—one cannot say it is more terrible than when children are Hon. Members will know the argument about malicious killed—in which such women and their children have accusation, but I have seen too many constituency cases then been killed by those partners. I have already given and too many women and their children who have been the example of honour killings. brutalised because not enough people have taken what has been said to them sufficiently seriously, often ignoring In a recent, highly publicised case of the most heinous the evidence before their eyes. The hon. Member for crimes, every report began not with “Three women were Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) made a murdered”, but with “Three prostitutes were murdered”. salient point in his maiden speech when he talked about I return to what I believe is still a central issue here, and the different approaches to such crimes in Europe, a reason I am so opposed to the Government’s proposal: where there are special courts that are properly financed, there is still the belief that attacks on women are engendered with support for victims. That is a lesson that we should by the women themselves. be learning in this country far more quickly than we are. I absolutely admit that we have made strides in that Anna Soubry indicated dissent. direction, but we need to make bigger strides and more of them. Glenda Jackson: It is no use the hon. Lady shaking her head. We both know of incidents in which people 3.3 pm have not reported an incident of rape because they were drunk at the time, and they know that they would be Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): I am grateful castigated for it. Equally she knows that when women to you for allowing me to make my maiden speech, do come forward claiming to have been raped, the Mr Deputy Speaker, and I am especially glad to be initial response in quite a wide circle is that they are doing so in front of your good self. making it up, which is why we have to be exceedingly In the past few weeks I have listened to, and had the careful about going down this road of putting rape in opportunity to contribute in, some excellent debates this special category that other violent crimes are not about foreign affairs, international development and granted. If the Government were arguing that all violent the nation’s finances, but I have waited to make my and violent sexual crimes should be afforded anonymity, maiden speech in a home affairs debate. Home affairs is and if there was sufficiently wide consultation on the often not seen as a glamorous policy area. It is often proposal—not just in the House, but in the country at overlooked and undervalued, but it is a policy area that large—I would be prepared to consider the Government’s affects everybody, all the time. We tend to notice home central argument, which is that a false accusation can affairs only when things are not working properly; and damage an individual’s life, their family’s life, and, in let me assure the House that after 13 years of the some instances, their professional life. However, I entirely previous Government, people in Cannock Chase have agree with the point that if we go down that road, we been noticing it more and more. Uncontrolled immigration, will be undermining one of the basic concepts of our police filling in forms rather than being out on the criminal justice system, which is that accusation and streets, an explosion in knife crime, burglars being given argument in criminal cases should take place in public. I more rights than the owners of the homes that they are would be extremely chary of moving away from that breaking into, and a general culture of petty lawlessness 585 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 586

[Mr Aidan Burley] by the coalition Government, have ensured that the role and relevance of Parliament as an institution have and lack of responsibility have all combined to make increased, as have those of Back Benchers. In my view, local people feel less safe and less secure. If we are to do he was simply one of the best parliamentarians of anything with our time in office, I sincerely hope that we recent times. It is therefore no wonder that he never got will restore a sense of confidence and pride in our to serve as a Secretary of State—only the Labour party communities that brings with it a sense of order and could ignore such talent, and put its spin above his security. substance. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear!] I am sure that Let me turn first to Cannock Chase and its predecessors. the House will join me in wishing him a happy and Traditionally a bell-wether seat, Cannock Chase has a healthy retirement. long history. Cannock—or Chenet, as it was called I should also like to make a brief mention of my right then—was mentioned in the Domesday Book in 1086, hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire Dales and is thought to mean “hillock”. Over the years, it has (Mr McLoughlin), the Government Chief Whip, known been home to kings and to coal miners. In the reign of in a former life as Cannock Chase District Councillor Henry VIII, the oak-filled forest of Cannock Chase was McLoughlin. He is a former miner at Littleton colliery, frequented by the king and the gentry for hunting. Then and Cannock is very proud to call him one of its own. came the industrial revolution and it became the petrol Cannock Chase is sometimes called the forgotten station of the country, with coal from its mines fuelling part of the west midlands. Often dismissed as a former the factories and the nation’s industries. In 1958, the mining town, it was ignored by the Conservatives for Chase—the largest surviving area of lowland heath in too long as a no-hoper, and taken for granted by the midlands—was designated an area of outstanding Labour. People locally told me that they felt let down by natural beauty because of its beautiful landscape, its Labour. One day, when I was campaigning with my wildlife and its history. The Chase is still home to some great friend, ally and supporter, my hon. Friend the 800 wild fallow deer, which are descended from the Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant)—who was original herd introduced in Norman times for hunting key to my success in the election—an elderly lady came purposes. up to me and said, “Young man, there’s only one thing Let us fast-forward to 2010. The Chase is now famous worse than being let down, and that is being taken for for its mountain biking trails and its musical concerts. granted.”As a Conservative representing a former mining Since 2006, the forest has been used as an open-air seat, I will not and cannot ever take my constituents’ music venue, hosting stars such as Jools Holland and votes for granted. Status Quo. In fact, I was there just two weeks ago when Before coming back to home affairs, I want briefly to I took my mum and my girlfriend to see Simply Red. mention my family. I do not come from an especially The constituency comprises three main towns: Cannock, political family, but my great-grandmother was one of Hednesford and Rugeley. Each has its own character, the first ever female councillors in Birmingham—admittedly history and traditions. Increasingly, however, each also for the Labour party—in the early 1950s. She fought has its own problems. Our challenge in Cannock Chase one parliamentary election and eight municipal ones, is to restore those towns to their former glory, with and my mother and my grandmother still live in the shops opening rather than closing, people moving to Moseley and King’s Heath wards that she stood for on them rather than from them, and businesses and families three occasions before finally being elected in Longbridge. thriving and staying. I very much hope to be a catalyst A successful café owner, in 1950, when the House of in that regeneration. Commons kitchens were reported in the national press Cannock Chase is fortunate to have been served as running at a loss, she publicly offered to supervise the by hard-working and dedicated Members of Parliament. catering right here, to pay £1,000 for the privilege of My hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot doing so and still make a profit. History does not record (Mr Howarth)—never shy about coming forward, and why her offer was never taken up—[HON.MEMBERS: always first to defend the nation’s interests—began his “Shame.”] I have with me the newspaper article that political career there in 1983, eventually rising to become reported this incident. Margaret Thatcher’s Parliamentary Private Secretary. My parents both ran small businesses in manufacturing Although he now finds himself representing the people and public relations and instilled in me those small-business of Aldershot, he is still remembered fondly by many of values of hard work and self-reliance—values that many the constituents I spoke to during the election campaign. in this country would do well to follow. Because of their It is a great pleasure to see him continuing to serve the hard work and success, they were able to send me to the nation in his new Front-Bench role. best secondary independent school in Birmingham, King More recently, the seat was in the capable hands of Edward’s in Edgbaston. At the time, more than a third my predecessor, Dr Tony Wright, from 1992 until his of the school comprised pupils with some form of an retirement in 2010. Dr Wright was well respected on assisted place, which engendered an incredible atmosphere both sides of the House. He was independent minded of competitive learning. I very much hope that during and not afraid to stand up and criticise his own Government my time in this House, the education debates will return when he felt it right to do so. He also had a keen interest to the subject of selection by ability, whereby the brightest in the political process, and his most significant contribution pupils are taught with their peers in exactly the same to the House was his chairmanship of the Wright way as the best young sportsmen are intensively coached Committee. In the light of the expenses scandal, the in academies to become the stars and Olympians of country and the Commons cried out for real and lasting tomorrow. reform, and, in a calm and measured way, Tony Wright I talked earlier about the importance of home affairs and his Committee delivered this. The recommendations policy, and I am delighted to speak in a debate that, to in his report, which are now being implemented in full me, represents one of the continuing running sores of 587 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 588 our criminal justice system—the continued lack of for women, which no one is suggesting, or we should anonymity to men who are accused of rape. Let us not extend that right to men under precisely the same beat about the bush here: a false allegation of rape can principle that extends it to women. In this, the mother ruin a man’s life. Even if he is tried in a court of law and of all Parliaments, we should do everything that we can found not guilty, he will still remain suspect in many to avoid punishment before, and sometimes without, trial. people’s eyes. It is human nature to say that there is no smoke without fire, especially, it would seem, when it 3.15 pm comes to the thorny issue of rape. It is virtually impossible Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): It is a for a man to survive an accusation of rape without a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cannock Chase stain remaining on his character. There will always be (Mr Burley). I must say that during his speech I found whispers and rumours and slurs. myself wishing that we could go back in time and see To me, what this debate is about is very simple: it is Cannock Chase in the days that he described. I regularly about avoiding punishment before, and sometimes without, travel from Birmingham northwards, as my husband trial. That is why I welcome this debate on the Government’s comes from Birmingham, and I have never thought of proposals to grant anonymity to defendants in rape Cannock Chase in those terms, but I will do so in cases. For me, anonymity only until trial is not enough, future. The hon. Gentleman paid a full and correct because the principle of no smoke without fire still tribute to Tony Wright, whom we all miss, and who, as applies. Surely all hon. Members will accept the principles he rightly said, has left us with an important legacy. I of equality before the law and equality between men wish the hon. Gentleman well in his pursuit of home and women. Surely all hon. Members also believe that affairs, but, unusually, following a maiden speech, I will people are innocent until they are proven guilty. be disagreeing with him on several issues, although I will do so in the customary fashion in this House. The legal situation that exists now protects women in rape trials, but it does not protect men. It gives women I want to make a few points in this enormously anonymity, but not men. A special legal exemption has important debate. I am worried that the Government’s been made in the case of rape, but why has it been made policy is ill thought out. My hon. Friend the Member just for those making the accusation? Why does that for Hampstead and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson) dealt same protection not apply to those who are being well with the issue. The Government should think again, accused? If we are singling out this particular area of and carefully, about the matter. No one in this Chamber the criminal justice system for special treatment, why underestimates the impact on a person of a false accusation should it not apply equally to both men and women? of rape or any other crime. In my many years in social Male defendants should be afforded the same protections work, I worked not only with many victims of sex as women making the accusations because every man is offenders but with sex offenders themselves, and on a innocent until he is proven guilty.If women need anonymity few rare occasions witnessed first hand the impact of for this particular type of case, so do men. what subsequently turned out to be an unproven accusation. Over the years, I have watched the situation for those We would all agree that men who are convicted of complaining of rape improve, fortunately. Some Members rape should have their names made public. Convicted of a similar age will recall—some Members, happily, rapists should be known and should face the consequences are younger and will not—that back in the 1980s some of their actions in respect of public opinion towards television programmes were made in the Thames valley them. All that the Government’s proposals mean is about police interviewing rape complainants. Many people simply that a man will face those social penalties after were rightly horrified to see the general attitude of he has been convicted of the offence rather than facing disbelief, which was one reason for the low reporting of advanced trial by others who will always think that cases. Fortunately, much has changed since that time, there is no smoke without fire. In high-profile cases, this although not as much as we might like. However, the will also avoid trial by media in advance of trial by successful prosecution rate for rape continues to be of court. significant concern. In such situations, to protect people I have listened to all the arguments made today, but I from false allegations, we must expect good investigation still do not understand why some Labour Members and evidence gathering. In a number of cases of false oppose this simple reform. I have heard that if men are allegations of which I have heard, that has not been the given anonymity, it might somehow discourage other case. Adopting a general position of belief, which is women from coming forward, but let us not forget that essential, does not mean ignoring the importance of guilty men will still be exposed when convicted. If good investigation and evidence gathering. anything, the change should encourage more women to Let us be clear: this crime is not only heinous, but come forward because they will have seen that a conviction enormously difficult, for many reasons, to investigate. It has been successful. is difficult for victims to talk about. None of us would There is, of course, a strong argument for having no welcome having to talk about sexual matters—even anonymity at all in any legal case. Anyone who believes those on a consensual basis—but talking about an in a completely open system of justice would agree with attack or crime of such a nature to people one does not that, but the reality is that exceptions have already been know, and to have to go into intimate details, is very made in cases involving children or women making difficult. Rightly, we have talked about children being accusations of rape. Surely if a male defendant in rape involved, and I dealt with that on a professional basis cases is innocent, he is just as vulnerable as they are. for many years. How do children explain what has Why are women and children vulnerable, but not men? happened to them when they might not even have the No one on the Opposition Benches has answered that necessary words? How do they talk about it when they today. The law is the law, and it should treat men and might feel that people are looking at them as if they women equally dispassionately or equally protectively. have done something wrong themselves? We must take That is why we should either remove the right of anonymity that into account. 589 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 590

[Meg Munn] of a children’s home and ask, “Did anything ever happen to you that gave you cause for concern?” Conducting Even when adults are involved, we are talking about a the investigative process properly protects against false situation in which perhaps only two people were present charges, or charges that turn out to be false. and there were no other witnesses. We are talking about We must look at this situation in the round, and we one person’s word against another’s. Even when, according have to say, “This is too important not to have a formal to any objective judgment, a woman has done nothing consultation.” I have been encouraged by the fact that wrong, she will still be asking herself, “Did I do something the Government have been prepared to discuss this wrong? Did I invite this in some way?” We as a society more, and to accept that the nine words that were in the must say, “No means no. Rape is not acceptable. Sexual coalition document are not sufficient, but I plead with relationships without consent constitute rape, and should them to have a formal consultation. This is a matter be subject to prosecution.” However, the difficulties that deserves to be addressed with that level of seriousness. involved cannot be underestimated, and the situation I gently say to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase must therefore be approached very carefully. that this is not a gender issue. Many victims are men It is important that we adopt a position of belief, and boys. Indeed, one concern is that boys who were because, as some of my hon. Friends have pointed out, abused as children find it particularly difficult to come too many people have not been believed in the past. If it forward and say they have been abused, because there is is felt that the first thing victims must do is prove that still the stigma that means they might be called gay. something has happened to them, even fewer women Sometimes—but not always by any means, as this is not will come forward, and children will not summon up a direct correlation—victims who have had something what is an almost impossible level of courage to speak terrible done to them as children go on to become up and say, “Something happened to me.” I have watched perpetrators because they do not know the rightful people who have been abused trying to give evidence in place of sexual relationships in adult situations. We talk court. I shall never forget seeing a young woman who about the lifelong effects of sexual abuse—that is one of had been abused while in a children’s home, standing them, and we should take it very seriously. there petrified and trembling, almost unable to give evidence. In such circumstances, the position of victims That points to another reason why it is enormously is very difficult. important that people have the confidence to come forward early and say they have been abused. The hon. The issue of offending behaviour involves a great Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon many myths. We talk about rape as if it suddenly Hughes) mentioned the impact on families. If people appears out of nowhere, but someone who commits come forward early, it stops there being future victims. rape may well have previously committed other, lesser, We must constantly bear down on this issue to stop sexual offences. I use the word “lesser” in relation to the there being future victims and to stop the cycle of criminal process, not in relation to the impact on the sexual abuse continuing. victim. The offender may have tested a situation, or fantasised about it, before committing the offence. In I ask Ministers to answer the following questions many cases, a pattern of behaviour has been formed. again and in greater detail. Why rape? Why not all sexual offences? Also, why has this proposal been put That is one reason why those of us who oppose forward at all if not because of the issue of false anonymity after charge—anonymity before charge is a allegations? The Minister said very clearly that it was different matter—consider it important to do so. Someone not based on the issue of false allegations, but he did who comes forward and says “This happened to me not tell us what it was based on. too” provides corroboration of that pattern of behaviour, and leads people to feel that they can believe what is This debate deserves greater clarity, not more confusion, being said. As I said earlier, if just two people are which is what we got from the Minister today. The involved it is one person’s word against another’s. If a matter under discussion is complex and important, and pattern of behaviour has been established and people we need to take time over it. We need the Select Committees provide detailed corroboration, it becomes possible to to take a look at it, and we need a proper public proceed with a prosecution. consultation so that everybody who has a story to tell and every agency that has worked with people affected Simon Hughes: The hon. Lady is always listened to by this can respond and put forward their views. seriously and with respect. May I ask whether she has I understand how the proposal may have emerged. It reflected on my earlier suggestion to her hon. Friend might, perhaps, have happened without enough thought the. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) that what leads to and late at night when people had not had any sleep more women coming forward is not necessarily the during the period when the coalition agreement was put information that an individual lives at a certain address, together fast. That does not have to bind us to carrying is a certain height or has hair of a certain kind, but may the proposal through, however, and to making a decision be a pattern of behaviour? That is information that can that would be detrimental to the people we should be be shared immediately, and the police often do share it caring about, whether victims or offenders. I ask Ministers just to get people to come forward, as indeed they to think again. should. 3.28 pm Meg Munn: I agree. In my experience, it is possible during the investigative process—in which, as I have Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): May I begin by said, I have been involved on the social work side—to thanking the Minister, as I know he has listened to question people who may have been in contact with the many of us who do not support all of the Government’s person concerned, without necessarily naming that person. proposals in this matter? I know that he has made For example, it is possible to contact previous residents movement, too, and I am very grateful for that, and I 591 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 592 am also sure that he will continue to listen to all that is one moment, the appalling trauma involved, especially said on this topic. I am sorry that the hon. Member for for young men—I am talking about those whom I have Hampstead and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson) has had to defended, who were often not the brightest or the most leave the Chamber, because I also want to say, with resourced—of often waiting for more than a year before great respect to her, that I think she is living in the past. the Crown rightly and properly decides not to proceed. I pay tribute to the last Government for the great We should never underestimate the trauma for those strides they took in ensuring that justice was done for young men and their families when they are facing that all those who make a complaint of either rape or sexual charge. I believe that the hon. Member for Bermondsey assault. I work as a criminal barrister—I say I work as and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) said that the one, because I like to think I can still do the occasional sentencing guidelines say that if someone has been case—and I have been in practice for some 16 years. I convicted of rape and they express some remorse, they very rarely prosecute as I have a defence practice, and I would not get a custodial sentence, but with respect, have defended many men who have been accused of that is not right. My understanding of the sentencing rape or sexual assault. On one occasion, I defended a guidelines is that the starting point, even on a guilty woman who was accused of rape. With great respect to plea, is a sentence of some four to five years. It is that my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase very knowledge that adds to the great trauma of young (Mr Burley), this is not a gender argument—that has men, notably, who face an allegation of rape, but many been identified by the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley other people who face other allegations are also traumatised (Meg Munn). We know the statistics and they are by that and by the criminal process. poor—we wish they were a lot better. However, as I For example, I am told that two city councillors in have said in an intervention, we know that 60% of the Nottingham were arrested on charges of fraud or some people who make a complaint of rape are females over other misdemeanour. The fact that they were never the age of 16, and that 40% are children—that includes charged never appeared on the front page of the Nottingham males. Evening Post—I think it was slipped away on page 6 or I echo what the hon. Lady said about young men in some such place. That allegation was hugely damaging making complaints about rape. I was involved in a case to their reputation. I can think of all other sorts of where I defended a man who was accused of the persistent examples—dentists or doctors might be accused of and long-term buggery of a young man whom he had something and arrested, their names could be published adopted. That young man did not make his complaint and again their reputations would be sullied. until he had run away from home—understandably. At As so many others have said, I urge the Minister to the age of 18 he came forward to complain about this consider with great care why he is singling out rape. I dreadful abuse, and my client was convicted. There is no know the point is not lost on him that the accusation way that that young man would have come forward to could be made that, for some reason, we on this side of make his complaint if he had thought for one moment the House do not believe in the proper prosecution of that his name would ever appear in the newspapers. people who rape women, who rape young men and who rape children, whereas we all know that we take it It is important that we all understand that there is no seriously. I am grateful to have heard all the proposals such thing as anonymity in a criminal justice system, that have been put forward by the Minister about the save with one very rare exception; there are certain cases need to support people when they make allegations where the prosecution, with great care and after a lot of of rape. thought, applies to a learned judge that a witness in a Rape, like all criminal offences, falls into many different particular case should have complete, true anonymity, categories. I have touched on the fact that a significant so that their name is not known to the defendant or, number of the people who complain about rape are indeed, to anybody else in the court. It is a bit of a myth children. We also know that a significant number of the that there is a long queue of women who somehow 60% of complainants who are females over 16 must be enjoy complete anonymity and can make up false making complaints about what happened to them when allegations, knowing that their name will never be known. they were children—that is, historic allegations of abuse. As all of us who have practised in the criminal justice It is unfortunate that we do not have those figures; we system know, on an indictment the name of the complainant should. is there. It is a sad moment in court when one sits there, an indictment is put to a defendant and the name of the We know that there is a big difference between somebody child is read out—the name is given as “a child under walking along a street or a road who is attacked by a the age of 13” or “a child under the age of seven”. So complete stranger and the other category of rape complaint, there is no such thing as the anonymity of complainants. which relates to two people who are known to each other. Again, it is not as simple as it is often portrayed. There is also no such thing—I would hope—as the They might be known to each other because they work anonymity of defendants. As has been said, we are together, so there is some sort of relationship, or because talking about a prohibition on publication of name. I they have met in a public house and exchanged words. know that I am of some age, but when I worked as a They might be known to each other because they have journalist many years ago the name of somebody who been married to each other for a considerable length of had been arrested was never publicised. What has happened, time or because they have been in some sort of relationship. in reality, is that too many police officers have decided They might be known to each other because they have that it would be in their interests—I say no more than gone out for the first time on a date and because that—to release the name of somebody who has been something has occurred that has caused that woman to arrested, especially somebody in the public eye. make a complaint of rape. It is a fiendishly complicated I want to nail a bit of a myth that suggests that it is issue and we cannot take a broad-brush approach and only the accusation of rape which casts such a terrible say that all allegations of rape fall into the same category. slur on someone’s reputation. I am not diminishing, for They profoundly do not. 593 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 594

[Anna Soubry] that the police should apply the same standards to complainants in rape and sexual assault cases as in any In the little time I have left, I want to touch on one other case. Some of us have been greatly disturbed by issue that concerns me. Again, I know from what I am changes in policy codes that seem to suggest that there told that there is a real problem with a lack of good should be a different standard and test when deciding sound evidence. I am afraid that the Minister will have whether to prosecute in rape and sexual assault cases, to rely on a lot of anecdotal evidence, but I have no because there should not be. If we do all that, there is a doubt from my practice and from talking to other good chance that the rape conviction rate, although it is members of the Bar and to members of the judiciary very good—we should get those figures sorted out; that when a name is put into the public domain other perhaps other hon. Members will enlighten us—will complainants come forward. There are many instances rise. I urge the Minister to continue consulting, and of it. I know from my practice that when the name of a perhaps my private Member’s Bill could, with the backing priest who was arrested went into the local newspaper, of both sides of the House, be the perfect solution. other women came forward who had been to him and to whom he had been their minister. When they knew that 3.42 pm others had made a complaint, they came forward. That Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): It is a delight to tendency should not be underestimated. follow the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry). I As you will know, Mr Deputy Speaker, I have had the feel that it might not be too long before she is elevated good fortune to be drawn in the ballot for private to the Front Bench. In addressing the debate, she Members’ Bills. I know that in addressing this Chamber demonstrated what she brings from her experience, as I must not touch too much on what I hope to say when well as her thoughtfulness. we discuss the Bill, but I ask the Minister to consider I congratulate the hon. Members for Gillingham and allowing anybody who is arrested to enjoy the privilege, Rainham (Rehman Chishti) and for Cannock Chase almost, of not having his or her name published in the (Mr Burley) on making their maiden speeches. They press. I believe that we can do that effectively and chose an interesting debate in which to do so. May I efficiently while still allowing the prosecution to apply suggest that the debate could, as they start their to a judge, depending on the particular circumstances apprenticeships in the House, be seen as a master class of an offence, for the name to be published. We must in how not to develop Government policy? I thought allow our judges to exercise their discretion, which they that my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and usually do, when they are allowed to do their jobs, Halewood (Maria Eagle) forensically took apart the particularly well. Minister’s opening statement. As the debate is entitled The last Government did a great deal to redress what “Defendant Anonymity”, I had hoped that the opening was clearly the wrong balance, with women not being statement would allow discussions to go in a different believed, best evidence not being gathered and so on. direction. I thought that the Minister might say, “We’ve However, I am bound to say that I think that in some thought about this and we may have been wrong to respects the balance has been tipped too far. Those of single out rape defendants, so today gives us scope to us who practise at the criminal Bar are concerned about talk about this on a wider basis.” Unfortunately, however, the number of prosecutions that continue when we the Minister has reaffirmed the determination to focus know that, if the allegation was not of rape or sexual on anonymity for defendants in rape trials, and that is assault, they would not proceed. We have to make sure regrettable. that when the police investigate an allegation, they do We have had many debates in the House since the not involve themselves. With great respect to the hon. general election, including heated and passionate debates Member for Sheffield, Heeley, it is not a question of the on how to cut the deficit, on electoral reform and on the police officer who investigates the allegation believing number of MPs we should have, and only this week we the complainant. That is not their role or job. have had the statement about which schools will go ahead in the Building Schools for the Future Meg Munn: This is a very important point. I was programme—or not, as the case may be. However, few saying not that the police officer had to believe the of those issues have provoked the reaction that greeted complainant, but that their initial approach when someone the proposal to extend anonymity to defendants in rape comes to the police station should be to adopt an cases. Little did right hon. Members who are now in attitude from the outset that that person has something government know, all those weeks ago when they were relevant to say that is likely to be true. That does not holed up in meetings in the Cabinet Office thrashing mean that they should put aside all the issues of evidence. out the details of the coalition agreement, the maelstrom that nine words on page 24 would cause. I am afraid Anna Soubry: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that that the policy of singling out rape has little evidence to intervention. The correct word, which I am grateful to justify it, and that has been confirmed by hon. Members my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon on both sides of the House. The policy, in isolation, (Mr Buckland) for supplying, is “empathy”. I have no really does not help the justice system or victims, and trouble at all with police officers who are not involved Ministers have been saying different things about it with the investigation, and all the support services, from one day to the next. giving support to the complainant, but it is absolutely When the law on giving anonymity to defendants in imperative that the police officer or officers involved in rape cases last applied, it created a legal quagmire. It the case should be of the right rank. I have seen too was a mess, where those accused of inciting rape were many cases involving someone who has probably just given anonymity but not those who conspired to it. The become a police constable—other learned hon. Members names of defendants charged with aiding and abetting are saying, “Hear, hear!”, because we barristers have rape were known, but not the names of those charged had almost daily experience of this. It is also imperative with burglary with intent to commit rape. The public 595 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 596 knew the names of those who had planned to rape but We have witnessed the rather bizarre spectacle of failed, but did not know the names of those who had Ministers coming to the House, or writing to Members, succeeded. It is an incredibly complicated area, not only asking them to provide evidence to support the for rape but for other offences, should we go down that Government’s policies. I know that times are hard and route—I have sympathy with the suggestions made by Departments are facing cuts of up to 40%, but if the the hon. Member for Broxtowe on expanding that Government are not able to find evidence to support aspect. Let us be in no doubt, however: any movement their own policies, it is not our job to do so. Indeed, a on the issue, in any direction, will create a lot of controversy. month ago the Minister wrote to me requesting evidence We must be careful about unforeseen consequences. and asked me to provide it within a week. I am pleased No one seems able to explain why we need to give to tell the House that I was able to meet his deadline, rape suspects anonymity in the first place. As has been but I am less pleased to have to inform the House that I said, singling out rape defendants sends a devastating have yet to receive a reply. Perhaps I should have insisted message to the victims of rape—that, uniquely, among on a deadline for comments from the Minister. all other complainants, they are not to be believed, even In response to my Adjournment debate the Minister when Home Office research shows that false allegation said that the Government would proceed on the rates are no higher for rape than for any other crime. evidence, and no one doubts the need for more and The proposal touches on what is meant by false better research. Baroness Stern made that point very allegation. Philip Rumney, of Sheffield Hallam university, eloquently in her review earlier this year; but she said provides the best definition I have come across. He says that the evidence needs to be looked at before the policy that is decided. The coalition has committed itself to granting “a false allegation can be defined as the description of an event anonymity to rape defendants before even looking at that the complainant knows never actually occurred” the evidence. That suggests to me that the Government suggesting are proceeding not on the evidence, but on the basis of a “a conscious or malicious motive on the part of the complainant.” misconception. Those two elements—the fact that the complainant knows that what she or he is alleging never actually Mr Blunt: If I have not formally thanked the right happened and the malicious motive—distinguish genuine hon. Lady for the letter, let me put that on the record false allegations from other cases when the complaint is now. I assure her that I was not anticipating evidence withdrawn rather than retracted, when there is insufficient from her in support of the Government’s position; it evidence, or when as we know, sadly, that owing to was really a challenge for her to come forward with mental health problems the complainant genuinely believes evidence, on the basis of the issues that I raised in the that they have been attacked. Adjournment debate and have repeated today. If there We have not even talked about other vulnerable victims, is evidence that would cause us to rethink, let us have it. who often face cynicism about their complaint. Many We are looking for it and we will publish our analysis by people with learning disabilities have not been believed. 28 July. Elderly people suffering from Alzheimer’s or dementia may find it hard to convey what has happened to them Caroline Flint: I certainly was not seeking to provide and—I am sorry to say—may be dismissed when they evidence to support the Government’s position. I was come forward or talk to family and friends about what providing evidence to explain why the Government’s they have experienced. position was wrong. What I have failed to receive is evidence from the Government as to why they are There is already evidence that too many cases are pursuing this singular policy of anonymity for rape wrongly classified as false allegation. That is a problem defendants. and we need research to make sure that recording is clear, not only for rape but for other crimes too. I think In one of Baroness Stern’s 23 recommendations—I that the police and prosecutors have made huge progress hope that the Government will give the other 22 equal in that area, particularly when they have specialist training, time and priority—she asks that there should be research, so I do not want the House to misinterpret what I am and saying. However, Home Office research in 2005 found “that the Ministry of Justice commissions and publishes an that the police displayed independent research report to study the frequency of false “a tendency to conflate false allegations with retractions and allegations of rape compared with other offences, and the nature withdrawals,” of such allegations.” thereby feeding a damaging culture of scepticism, which She was saying that the matter should be looked at in deters victims from coming forward to seek justice. The the round. proposal is likely only to harden such attitudes, when As I said earlier, I am sad today that the opportunity we should be challenging them. was not taken by the Government to knock this coalition The only other possible justification for the proposal proposal on the head and move us into an area where is that the damage associated with being accused of we could find some consensus and agreement across all rape is of a completely different order to every other parts of the House. crime. Members have cited other crimes when a person who was falsely accused felt justly aggrieved and distressed, Simon Hughes: In that context, if the evidence that and the result was suicide or other action that caused Baroness Stern and others have asked for is forthcoming, distress to their family. It is not credible to suggest that in the form of further research, would the right hon. being accused of rape is uniquely devastating, in a way Lady be prepared to look at the idea that goes more that being accused of domestic violence, murder, sexually broadly than rape? Is she willing to accept, at least in abusing children, or even defrauding a popular charity principle, that there may be a case for anonymity in are not. other categories, not single-offence categories? 597 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 598

Caroline Flint: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that unproductive. The only way that we could start such a intervention. I actually made that point in my contribution debate is for the Government to make a clear statement— to the Adjournment debate a few weeks ago, and I am today offered the ideal opportunity to do so—accepting open to that. What I am not prepared to accept is that they were wrong to single out rape defendants and moving in that direction until the coalition Government acknowledging the damage that that has done. have clearly stated that it was wrong to focus on rape, As my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and and that they have learned from the contributions and Halewood said earlier, there have been very real the pressure and the lobbying from Members in all improvements in the way that victims of rape can expect parts of the House to change that viewpoint. That is to be treated in the criminal justice system, but there is because I think that it is really important to send a some way to go. As Dave Whatton, the chief constable message to the country that when someone gets something of Cheshire constabulary and the senior police officers’ wrong, they should say that they have got it wrong. A lead on this matter said at the all-party meeting yesterday, lot of organisations, which are listening to this debate, the single biggest challenge that the police face is still are very concerned about the message that was sent the lack of confidence among victims, which stops them from that coalition agreement about the attitudes to from reporting their attack and prevents rapists from victims when reporting rape, and the assumption that being brought to justice. they, more than for any other crime, might be guilty of The Government must surely now realise that their making false allegations. proposals would make women less likely to come forward An issue has been raised in this debate about equality and, I am afraid, embed a dangerous culture of scepticism, between defendants and complainants. In a report in when so much has been done to improve trust between The People on 27 June, it was stated that the Government the victims of rape and the criminal justice system. We planned to extend anonymity to defendants in all cases need an informed debate. There should be at least a where the victim is not named, under the cover of Green Paper, so that we can discuss the issue in detail, ensuring “equality before the law.” Equality before the and I hope that the Minister will deal with that in law does not and cannot mean identical treatment for summing up. defendant and complainant. There is a vast array of ways in which the criminal justice system already, and rightly, treats defendants and complainants differently. 3.56 pm Both should be treated fairly, but that does not mean Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): I congratulate identically; if that were the case, presumably we would the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) no longer afford the defendant the advantage of the on her speech and on the passion with which she spoke burden of proof, and complainants would have to be during the Adjournment debate that she initiated. Many held on bail or in custody before their case came to court. right hon. and hon. Members have brought special The suggestion betrays a fundamental misunderstanding expertise to the debate, either as barristers or from a of why victims of rape are given anonymity in the first background in social work. My background is that I am place, and that has been expressed very eloquently by a doctor. For five years, I was a forensic medical examiner colleagues in today’s debate. for Devon and Cornwall police and spent many long It is not credible to suggest either, as the Lord Chancellor nights with women and some men who had been the has done, that protecting the identity of the defendant victims of horrendous sexual and physical violence. I protects the identity of the complainant. Just because have also been a family doctor for many years and have most attackers are known to the victim does not mean been a practitioner for 24 years in total. that the victim would be immediately identifiable from I have lost count of the number of women—they are the attacker’s name being known. It could be a boss at mostly women—whom I have seen who have not made work; it could be someone they meet on the bus every an allegation of rape. The reasons are many and complex. day; it could be someone they know in the nightclub, or I can testify that the vast majority of those crimes go a friend of a friend. unreported, because of misplaced feelings of guilt, real It is in the public interest that the victims of rape fear of reprisals, a belief that the victims will not be come forward and report their crimes, so that rapists do believed and, in many cases, just a sense that they want not escape prosecution and are prevented from attacking to put something so horrible in a box on the shelf and other victims. There is no equivalent public interest in never visit it. That is the truth of the matter. allowing defendants to remain anonymous. That does I pay tribute to the many women who have the not mean that I do not understand the damage that courage to go forward and make a complaint. I want to false allegations can cause. We have already heard during point out something that the women saw had in common. today’s debate about a case where someone was tried for Many of them told me that the reason they were going making a false allegation and—I think that I heard through what is, quite frankly, a very unpleasant correctly—got two years in prison. That is a serious examination after a horrendous experience was not for sentence for a serious crime. themselves, but because they believed that it would As I have said, there may well be a case for looking at protect other women. I ask the Minister to consider whether all defendants—not just those in rape cases, or why those women would report a rape if they thought even in cases that involve sexual offences—should be that there was no possibility that other women might afforded anonymity until they are charged, but I am benefit. afraid that that was not the coalition’s proposal. I am I completely understand the many arguments made still not clear whether the Government will pursue that in favour of protecting the innocent who are subject to proposal. Certainly, one thing is clear: if we wanted to false allegations, but we need to remember that the odds consider that wider debate, the way to start it was not to are heavily stacked in their favour. For every 100 women focus on rape at the outset. That has been completely I saw—I believed the vast majority of them—I can 599 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 600 count on the fingers of one hand the number who had of a defendant or co-defendant became public? Those their day in court and saw a conviction. We need to be questions go alongside more important ones that we clear that the scales are already tipped in favour of the need to tease out. Would anonymity apply at arrest, defendant in a rape case. We need to be very careful that charge or trial? It is clear that the nine words in coalition we do not add a further barrier to women coming document have stirred up a hornets’ nest, and I am forward and making allegations. grateful that we are having this debate to try to tease The second point I should like to make is on the those things out. I hope that the Minister will answer difficulty in this country with serial offenders. Many the many questions that right hon. and hon. Members hon. Members have referred to John Worboys, who have asked. drugged his victims in the back of his taxi, but let us be It has been said that the measure needs to be introduced clear that the No. 1 date rape drug remains alcohol. because the offences in question are so distinct that to Many rape offenders are serial offenders—they are accuse people of them falsely is to destroy lives. As frequent fliers. When I examined women in the presence others have asked today, why only rape? Why are teachers of police, it became clear that many of those whom the accused of such offences in a category alone? The women named as the person who had attacked them inclusion of teachers reflects the fluidity of the thinking were known to the police and had form. We need to be and its inconsistency. If anonymity throughout a criminal careful that we do not put further barriers in the way of case were possible and desirable, could we define and identifying such people so that others can come forward measure the social penalty of being accused of a crime, with their experiences. or being exonerated, including before charges were made, Those were the two main points that I wanted to in a manner that was satisfactory to all concerned? make today. Many hon. Members have said that this is Anthropologists will tell us how shame, as a concept, not a gender issue, and I agree. However, we need to be contributed to many different accusations. It can be careful that we do not make it a political issue. I have argued, as many in the debate have, that false accusations some reservations about the way in which some Members of paedophilia, murder, serious violence, hate crimes or have tried to make it so. I would like the Minister to domestic violence can just as easily destroy somebody’s consider free votes, because that is the best way to take life and those of their loved ones. Indeed, why are the political heat out of the argument and to focus on teachers alone in our public services afforded such the real issue of who we want to protect. I request that protection? Why not doctors or care workers? he look carefully at my suggestion. The debate is about more than legal semantics, and Members on both sides of the House who are concerned about the proposals care for more than intellectual 4.1 pm consistency. It is clear that they are also worried that Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): Thank giving those accused of rape anonymity and not those you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to contribute accused of any other crime sends the message that rape to this debate, which is on an important and sensitive is different and separate. In doing so, the proposals take subject. I am very honoured to take part in a debate in us backwards as a society in addressing rape rather than which so many hon. Members have so much experience help us to make progress. Furthermore, the proposal to contribute to our thinking. My desire to speak reflects flies in the face of the evidence available to us about the my personal concern that the current proposals are nature of rape and how it is prosecuted. We do not have both unworkable and, more importantly, counter-productive enough data on false accusations. to our shared stated aim of achieving better outcomes Many hon. Members have already referred to the for rape victims and justice for our society as a result. excellent report on this issue by Baroness Stern, which This is a difficult debate to participate in, not least identifies many of the challenges that we face with this because it is still not clear what measures the Government crime. Above all, her report tells us that if victims do intend to introduce. What has been published on the have the courage to come forward, and are willing to go proposed legislation poses a number of questions. For through the criminal justice system, conviction rates are example, what does anonymity actually mean? Are we improving and justice is possible. But her report also talking about printed or public or local knowledge of a highlights the fundamental problem of the high level of case? How could that be secured at any level? Inevitably, attrition of cases, and that is why we should be extremely as hon. Members have said, people in the criminal and cautious about doing anything that could make the legal system will know, or be able to secure access to, the process even harder. It also makes the case for looking identity of an accused person, as part of the day-to-day again at how rape is handled by the criminal justice functioning of our court systems. Given the concerns system. about the relationship between our courts, our media The test for this proposal must be whether the intended and our criminal system, which were admirably outlined benefits it could offer outweigh the risks that it poses to by the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), the detection and prosecution of rape. The benefits of the difficulty of enforcing anonymity is a clear challenge to proposal could be strong only if we could prove that the the proposals. false reporting of rape is systematic and widespread Moreover, how far would the anonymity have to go above and beyond that of any other crime in our to be sustainable? As my right hon. Friend the Member criminal justice system. As Baroness Stern herself argues, for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) pointed out, what if we simply do not know that, and we do not have somebody is accused of a number of interrelated offences? enough evidence about the false reporting of rape to Would co-defendants be covered? They might be accused make such a judgment. She rightly argues—and many of less serious crimes, such as aiding and abetting, but hon. Members have agreed—that we need more research would they be given anonymity to protect another on that issue. Crucially, she also asks for more research defendant? What would it mean for a case if the name into the false reporting of all offences instead of singling 601 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 602

[Stella Creasy] “the majority of cases are lost during the investigation process for a number of reasons including victims’ loss of faith in the process, out rape. I hope that that is a point that Ministers will the length of time the investigation takes, lack of communication address in the research that they are conducting, so that between police and victims.” we have a greater understanding of the incidence of To add into that mix a presumption of dishonesty could false reporting across the criminal justice system. only make it harder for all concerned to take the journey towards justice. Indeed, if research is to be done, it The lack of evidence is partly due to the difficulty of should, in order to flesh out fully the challenges we are defining a false accusation, as many hon. Members talking about, take into account not simply the concept have pointed out, and whether such accusations are of rape, but the outcomes and causes behind the complaint, malicious. Another issue is how incidents are marked as whether the police felt that the victim would not be able “not crimed” in the system and the danger of using that to go to trial, whether evidence was gathered well as a proxy for evidence of false allegations of rape. enough to stand up in court, whether the victim withdrew If we do not have the evidence, and the Government their complaint, and whether the individual was tried. I claim that this proposal is not about dealing with false suspect that, if we are able to gather such data, the allegations, where has it come from? We are all aware of picture would be very different from that being painted the media coverage that this topic has generated—much in the reporting of rape allegations and in the language heat but not much light. The coverage is selective. I have used by some when talking about the subject. recently made representations on behalf of a constituent Given that this proposal could deter victims from who was tried for making a false allegation only to be coming forward, we should work harder to explore acquitted, and now finally charges are being brought other options that do not make a presumption about against the attacker. That case raises many serious the likelihood that a complainant has lied about such a concerns about the ability of our justice system to deal crime. Yesterday, Baroness Stern called for more work with rape, and the role of the Independent Police to be done to establish whether the existing guidance on Complaints Commission in addressing complaints about anonymity in rape cases from the Association of Chief how such crimes are investigated. I am continuing to Police Officers has been followed, and if not, why not. I pursue those complaints, but to have struggled for hope the Minister will also take up that point. Above justice for so long in such a context must have been all, I urge the House to search its soul in this debate. extremely difficult. To ask victims to come forward and The question is not whether it is feasible to give some report rape in an environment in which the law enshrines rape defendants anonymity and not others; we must ask the notion that some victims will lie would be even why we are still struggling to bring those who commit harder. such offences to justice and how we can address this No one suggests that being accused of rape is not a problem. If we do that, we will see that proposals for serious matter, but to presume that—unlike in any other anonymity are not part of the solution. crime—an allegation could be based on lies, the The problems are complex, but there are several Government are on dangerous ground if they do not indications of where action could be taken. I come to have the evidence to support the policy. It also stands in this debate as a London MP faced with extremely contrast to the evidence that publicising the report of a troubling statistics on prosecution of rape in the capital rape can be vital in the prosecution of cases. Several which show that our conviction rate is well below the hon. Members have already highlighted the shocking success rate in other metropolitan areas. That is why I statistics on the reporting of rape and the concerns that welcome the move to Sapphire units and co-ordination that will be adversely affected by giving those accused across London. The reality is that staffing such units is of the crime anonymity. Whether in the cases already especially hard in outer London, in areas such as mine, mentioned of Worboys and Reid, or those involving where officers receive little recognition for taking on individuals who knew their attackers, there is strong such work, in contrast with other roles within our police evidence that public accusations can give other victims force. the confidence to come forward and report their experiences. We should also learn from the Payne review and The question of how cases are put together is not George Alberti’s research, and offer more support for incidental but integral to the debate and the danger of victims. I would favour the extension of the role of these proposals. As investigations in the difficult area of independent sexual violence advisers as distinct from proving a lack of consent can often involve very vulnerable police or other criminal justice officers. We must also be people, we must be sensitive to what can be done to mindful of the funding for rape crisis centres, which support them. face a struggle for existence under the new Administration. An interesting study by the Metropolitan police from Indeed, I fear, under the new Government’s public 2005 found that 87% of those reporting rape had at services spending freeze, that it will be harder, not least one of four vulnerabilities—being under 18, having easier, for specialised units for rape and sexual assault mental health problems, having ingested alcohol before victims to improve conviction rates and bring rapists to being raped and of having been or being in a relationship justice, given that they are already under-staffed, under- with their attacker. As the report points out, those add resourced and lacking specialised rape lawyers. I hope to the considerable complexities of prosecution and that Ministers will today make a commitment, given increase the chances of the withdrawal of a case early in their interest in this subject, to ensure that those services the process. As I have said, I am concerned about the are properly funded and protected. way in which cases are handled by our criminal justice In conclusion, I urge the Government to turn their system, something that the police have also put on the attention from the tabloid headlines, and instead focus record in their conversations with the Eaves Partnership on addressing these challenges. The Government’s proposal in London. The police acknowledge that would give credence, without any evidentiary foundation, 603 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 604 to the idea that lying is an aspect of this crime and not names of those innocent individuals from that awful any other. I can see that others across the House agree spectre of a Google search when, for example, they with me, and I appeal to them to work with us to raise apply for jobs and find that their names are for ever these concerns. As legislators, we must not send out the besmirched. That is the problem that so many innocent message, however unintended, that we think that those people have to face, and it is a problem that we need to who come forward to report rape are more likely to start talking about, and seeking to address and in some mislead than any other alleged victim of crime. As way solve. members of society, we must work together to protect I return to where we are in this debate. Recognising the vulnerable and hear the voices of victims with an the problem that I have outlined, I think that reporting open mind. A public consultation would guarantee and restrictions should surely not be confined to rape or encourage that. I urge the Minister to change his mind sexual allegations generally. There are many scandalous and ensure that we hear those voices in this debate. allegations made against individuals—they have been well discussed today, but I shall not repeat them for fear 4.13 pm of overstepping my time allocation. However, the point has been powerfully and simply made by many colleagues Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): It is a in all parts of the House that to try artificially to restrict great honour to make a contribution to a debate that the proposal to one category of crime not only poses has been singularly well informed, not only by my hon. the kind of problems that the right hon. Member for Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), who Don Valley (Caroline Flint) identified in her powerful made a particularly useful contribution, but by the very contribution, but risks taking us back to the naturally powerful speech from my hon. Friend the Member for emotive issues that surround the crime of rape. Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who has an almost unique perspective on these matters. It is a perspective slightly I should like to digress for a moment and talk in different from mine: I spent many years slightly further support of the many speeches that have been made down the food chain, dealing with both the prosecution today about the need for better investigation of rape and defence of serious sexual crimes in the Crown crimes. Let me tell the House that my experience of the court, including the abuse of children, rape and other prosecution of rape is that juries always look for that offences of a sexual nature, involving both males and extra bit of reassurance—particularly where consent is females. the issue—that they can often get from powerful scientific evidence. “Why scientific evidence,” one might ask, “if It is perhaps inevitable that a debate about defendant the issue is consent? How on earth can that be relevant?” anonymity has been dominated by the issue of the The answer is that trials can take peculiar twists and treatment of the victims of rape and the investigation of turns. Issues that might not have seemed important to that very serious crime. That is not a criticism—in fact, investigating officers at the outset of the investigation it is a rather welcome development. It is inevitable can suddenly loom rather large in the consideration of because the focus of the proposal in the coalition document the jury when one goes through the evidence with a was centred on rape. That was a mistake. The points fine-toothed comb. made about broadening the ambit of the anonymity I will give the House a simple example. Where the act question are right. Perhaps the most important point took place can often be a powerful indicator of whether made today, however, was the one made by my hon. consent or the lack of it can be proved. For example, if Friend the Member for Broxtowe: the word “anonymity” the act took place on a floor or an area that would not is causing us a problem. It is taking us away from the be consistent with consent, scientific evidence can often real issue, which is the coverage and reporting of such help to prove a case, particularly if the defendant and cases, an issue that has been thrown into particular the complainant disagree about where the particular act relief in recent years by the power of electronic media of intercourse or sexual misconduct took place. I know and the internet. that that might sound like arguing with the benefit of For generations, local newspapers were, with the greatest 20:20 hindsight, but the truth is this: the scene of a of respect to them, the chip paper of tomorrow. They crime of rape should be treated as seriously as the scene were easily forgotten—trashed, buried. However, the of a crime or murder or any other alleged act of serious internet is not just for Christmas; it is for life. I am sure violence. Far too often, scenes of crime are not sterilised, that we have all had constituents who were the victims preserved or properly protected by investigating officers, of false allegations years and years ago, but who are with the result that valuable sources of evidence are haunted by the spectre of a Google search linking their lost. I accept that that is a question of resources, and I name for ever with that false allegation. I am sure that know that senior police officers will have a very difficult we have all had cases of people pleading for help—some round in the year ahead, but time and again police of them have mental health problems as a result of what officers have told me that this is a problem that they happened to them. Let us not forget that none of the face. There is no lack of will or empathy involved; there proposed changes to the law will help those people, is simply a lack of resources for conducting proper which is why the point made some time ago by the right investigations of rape allegations. hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz)—that this The attrition rate has been mentioned. That is perhaps issue not only covers home affairs or justice, but is a rather an inelegant phrase to use when we are talking media matter, for the Department for Culture, Media about such a sensitive crime, but we must not forget and Sport—is so important. about this. The rate will be increased if prosecutors The more I think about the issue, the more I come to make decisions to pursue cases that fail the test of a the conclusion that we should be grappling with the reasonable prospect of conviction. That should be a equally difficult—indeed, perhaps somewhat more cast-iron test to be applied to every case, irrespective of difficult—question of the power of the internet, and the type of allegation. I do not say that in a cold-hearted how to regulate it and seek in some way to expunge the way; I believe that such a test serves the public interest. 605 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 606

[Mr Robert Buckland] police should be allowed—given the statistical background we have discussed—to facilitate the process of getting Let us put the questions of attrition and investigations more people to come forward. I believe that if the out of our minds for the moment and return to the anonymity proposal is pushed through, we will simply question of reporting restrictions. I believe that there is end up with more rape—particularly by serial rapists—less a case for the creation of a discretionary power for reporting and fewer convictions. judges to impose reporting restrictions in whatever cases In my area of Swansea West, as elsewhere, there is they see fit, subject to a simple test—namely, that of the serious and widespread concern about this issue. I know interest of justice. That is a wide test that is applied by that some Members have said that it is not political, but the judiciary up and down the land every day of our I have encountered people saying, “Look, I voted Liberal working lives. At a stroke, it would cut through all the Democrat, and I did not vote for hiding the identity of sensitivities that have been quite properly expressed prospective rapists and increasing the number of rape today, and all the problems that come with identifying victims. I did not vote for that.” This policy emerged, of particular professions and particular types of offence. course, from a Liberal Democrat conference resolution We must trust the judiciary to do the job that they are in 2006. To be fair to the Conservatives, in 1988 the veil trained to do. was pulled and hidden identity was thrown away under In that regard, the speech made by my hon. Friend pressure from the police, who said that anonymity was the Member for Broxtowe—I nearly called her my preventing women from reporting. That remains the learned friend—was an extremely important one. She case, so I hope that the Conservatives will go back to proposes discretion up to charge. I would go further their previous position. I realise that some sort of deal and propose discretion throughout the course of the has been done on VAT and everything else, but let us trial. That could cover a range of different allegations. not allow it to get in the way of the rights of women and It would also allow a properly informed judge, faced their protection. Disclosure generates confidence— with an unmeritorious application from a defendant confidence to stand up and be counted against serial who perhaps did not deserve the protection of reporting offenders. restrictions as much as someone of good character, to Most crime generally is serial crime. We all know that make a decision based on all the information before the vast majority of crime is perpetrated by just a few them. That would remove the quite natural emotion people—and that is certainly the case with rape. Like that we hear in debates such as this one, and allow us to other Members who have spoken, I have had the great avoid the natural collision of views over the investigation pleasure of witnessing a presentation by the chief constable of the serious crime of rape, as well as the more general of Cheshire, Dave Whatton, who showed evidentially issues about journalism, reporting and reputation. the relationship between disclosure, witnesses coming For that reason, I urge the Government to think forward and subsequent convictions. The reality is that again about their current position and to widen the a person comes up for a rape trial, often on their own, ambit of the measure to include a wide range of offences. but with disclosure, others might come forward. As I Furthermore, the word “anonymity” might be relevant mentioned in an earlier intervention, in some cases, in the case of an undercover police officer, who can now evidence from the first victim might not be sufficient for give evidence while being protected by statute—following conviction, but it might be with the collaborative evidence the problems of two or three years ago when the European of others. Without that additional evidence, the case is Court ruled that the current common law position was likely to fall and more serial rape is likely to be the inadequate—but we should stop using the word in result. relation to this debate. We should be talking about reporting restrictions. If we do introduce legislation on this subject, I want that term to be used. On that note, I Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend makes an important hope that I have in some way contributed towards this point about the opportunity for the press to publish excellent and well-informed debate. information about defendants, which could strengthen the case if more women come forward. Their cases might not get on the charge sheet, but even if it is the 4.24 pm first time that they have come forward, it would help to Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): At the give them closure, in that they would know who their nub of this debate is the question of whether the police attacker was and their additional evidence would hopefully should be allowed the discretion to release the identity contribute to a successful conviction and their attacker of people who they believe are serial rapists, with a view going to jail. to getting more victims and more witnesses to come forward and provide more evidence to facilitate prosecution. Geraint Davies: That is absolutely right. We talked That point was touched on in an excellent speech by the earlier about the problem of putting things in boxes and hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who obviously isolated cases. Some women go through thinking that has a great deal of experience in this area. We have they have contributed to the incident or even that it is heard good debating points, but we really need to get to somehow their fault, but if they knew that the person the nub of the issue, because I fear that if the anonymity had a consistent pattern of behaviour in raping women, proposal for rape defendants goes through we will end they would no longer think like that. Sometimes a up tying the hands of the police. woman—or a man—does not want to stand in front of We are not talking about allowing all the names of all a court; a difficult case might fail completely because no the people ever accused of rape to go out to the media one else comes forward and the evidence is insufficient. before charge. Rather, we are talking about whether in In those circumstances, the victim could end up being certain instances, where people are known to be serial branded as a woman—sometimes a man—who makes offenders but have not been successfully prosecuted, the false accusations. They have told the truth, but on the 607 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 608 balance of evidence available from only one witness, the the rape. Why is that? Obviously, there is a systemic accused is found not guilty, and the woman then becomes problem with the justice system. About 5% of women in “a liar”. What signal does that send when we want to the population—1.4 million—have been raped. Despite encourage more witnesses to come forward? that horrendous figure, we are discussing measures to I appreciate that the point was made seriously, but I deter people from coming forward. do not agree with my right hon. Friend the Chairman of The chief constable of Cheshire gave a snapshot of the Home Affairs Select Committee—the point about statistics in the year to March 2010. He reported that Google raised by the hon. Member for South Swindon 155 crimes had been recorded as rape, 33 of which were (Mr Buckland) was well made—that there is an equivalence prosecuted, with 23 convictions. Nobody was found to between the psychological and reputational difficulties have put forward a malicious, false accusation, although of the accused, although they certainly exist, and a lot 13 cases were regarded as non-criminal. His evidence more women being raped. There is no qualitative suggested that, occasionally, accusations are dismissed. equivalence between them. Quantitatively, the number I do not pretend that there are not malicious, false of malicious, false allegations is minute, whereas the allegations, but there are few of them. Obviously, false number of unreported—certainly unconvicted—rapes allegations are serious, because when people are found is massive. On the balance of the argument, qualitatively to have made them they are punished by, for instance, as and quantitatively, the case for anonymity is not made. has been mentioned, two years in jail, which is fair enough. However, we should not change legislation Mr Buckland: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? because of a small number of people, when a large number of people are suffering very serious consequences, Geraint Davies: Briefly, as I mentioned Google. against a backdrop of a massive amount of rape. We should not rush a change through before the summer Mr Buckland: The hon. Gentleman is not suggesting recess as has been suggested. that there is a trade-off between the effect on an innocent Women, in particular, will see the proposal in the person and rape being undetected and victims not being wider context of a new Government suggesting that served by the system, is he? there should be less closed circuit television and less use of DNA, and now they are suggesting that there should Geraint Davies: We must maximise our impact on be anonymity. Plus they are cutting £125 million from injustice against victims and the wrongly accused. the police grant. When all that is put together, it does Ultimately, however, there is a trade-off, because if we not look good to the victim, or suspected victim, of push forward with anonymity, there will be more rape, rape. To those watching this debate, I point out that more rapists and more rape victims. A few innocent 1.4 million women have been raped. Again, that is people might get accused because of the culture and against a long-term cultural backdrop of endemic sexism environment we create, but it is obvious where I stand in in the judicial system. I see men on the Government that trade-off. Benches raising their eyebrows, but we have all heard The chief constable of Cheshire gave the example of about contributory negligence: “She was drunk”; “She a vicar who used to be a teacher. There was a media had a short skirt on”; “He couldn’t help himself”; “He revelation about him being accused, and immediately was a former boyfriend”; “And what about her sexual eight more victims came forward, as a result of which history?”; “What about his military career?”—all irrelevant, he was convicted. We have heard about the 12 women erroneous considerations. Consent is consent. who came forward about the black cab driver; suddenly, after photos were published, 81 more women came Anna Soubry rose— forward. In the case of the paedophile running a teenage football team, publicity led to 14 more victims coming Geraint Davies: I consent to the intervention. forward. Under the anonymity proposal, that would not have happened, and we would not be protecting the Anna Soubry: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that victims, including children. those days are long past? Raising the sexual history of a complainant is specifically prohibited, apart from in There is a prisoner’s dilemma whereby we rely on the extremely rare circumstances, under section 41 of the brave victim coming forward and encouraging other YouthJustice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999. Does he people to have the confidence to do so. With anonymity, agree that that is a long time ago? We have moved on the risk is that that person will stand alone, and that in greatly in the past 15 to 20 years. the time between the accusation and the court case, she will be open to harassment through texting and phone Geraint Davies: No, I would not agree. I heard of a calls saying, “You haven’t got a chance. You know recent case where such suggestions were made about you’re going to lose.” Then, when she does lose, other clothing and all the rest of it by the barrister in putting people will look at her and say, “I’m not ending up like the defendant’s case. That is still the backdrop. We can Mary. She was harassed for ages, and now she is regarded all pretend that we do not live in the environment in as a liar.” Anonymity changes fundamentally the power which we do. The environmental context is pulled in relationship between victim and accused. The accused when such cases are considered, and that is another will realise that, it will reduce the risk to serial rapists reason why people do not want to come forward. They who use drugs or alcohol to carry out their crimes, and say, “Oh no, I was out on a Saturday night and I’d had a it will increase rapist confidence. few drinks, so it’s an I-was-asking-for-it type of thing.” Under the proposal, the balance could tip even further against the victim. The statistics already suggest that Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): To be fair, in the 0.5% of women are raped each year—about 140,000 past 13 years, the hon. Gentleman’s own Government women a year. Of those, about 100,000 do not report made immense efforts with the judiciary to change 609 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 610

[Guy Opperman] of time in the courts. Whatever may have happened in the past, my experience is that it does not happen in the previous judicial thinking, however misinformed it may present day and age. have been, as the judiciary would tell him. The previous I support the broad principle that we should consult Government did a huge amount; does he not agree with on, and review, this issue. There is rightly considerable that? concern that people who are acquitted of certain offences Geraint Davies: I must agree with that. A huge amount should not have their lives ruined—and in some cases was done by the previous Government in this direction; their lives are comprehensively ruined. It is accepted that is completely true. My simple point is that the that in some types of cases, particularly serial rapist and statistical backdrop is horrendous, the direction of travel sex offender cases, the widespread publication of certain of the proposal is regressive, and the cultural backdrop details makes a difference to the conviction. That is one is sexist. As was said, the previous Government did a lot of the inherent flaws in the argument for going down to move in the other direction. As was pointed out by the proposed route, but it is patently possible—this is the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), the sort done in a variety of other scenarios in judicial contexts—for of arguments that I mentioned are frowned on, but these situations to be dealt with in a way that allows what about the image of the system held by the people judicial flexibility. Also, the police can in certain limited whom it serves? We have a situation where 100,000 instances apply to publicise such details precisely because people are not coming forward into that system because they wish to go down what we might call the Warboys they have no confidence in it. At the same time, a dog route as they think there are other related sexual offences whistle is being blown, as regards defendant anonymity. and they want them to come to light. That similar fact I genuinely think that such anonymity will protect more evidence is already inherent in the system and followable serial rapists and lead to more rape. in the system. This is a key moment for the Government, with However, I have represented someone who was wrongly regard to the future of justice in cases of sexual violence. convicted of a criminal offence. I have absolutely no I very much hope that they pull back from what I regard doubt of his innocence, but that gentleman was convicted as a retrograde, regressive, sexist and backward position. and it took me one year and about two weeks to get the Court of Appeal to overturn the decision. That young 4.38 pm man was desperately affected, and I do not think he will Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Like many people ever be the same again. It was no comfort thereafter in this debate, I have specific experience of the problems, that the individuals involved were subsequently prosecuted. having served as a prosecution barrister on behalf of That is but one example of many. Plenty of other the Attorney-General for many years and, more specifically, people, such as Peter Bacon and Matthew Kelly, have having run a free representation unit that provided been in similar situations where these matters coming to criminal injuries compensation assistance, and having light makes life very difficult. worked with Victim Support. In fact, the previous We should look back at the best evidence. For me, Government gave me an award for the work that we did that comes at present from the Home Affairs Committee for Victim Support; I accept that that will not happen 2003 report. It is worth while contemplating the fact ever again, but I pray in aid the fact that that award was that some sensible and very serious luminaries were for the work that we were trying to do on behalf of serving on the Committee at the time: Janet Dean, those who were so grievously affected by the issue that Chris Mullin, Bridget Prentice, the hon. Member for we are discussing. Colchester (Bob Russell), Gwyn Prosser, the hon. Members I would like to think that we have grasped an important, for Bradford West (Mr Singh) and for West Bromwich serious issue, but we have done it improperly. The East (Mr Watson), Ann Widdecombe, the hon. Member coalition agreement says: for Walsall North (Mr Winnick), my hon. Friend the “We will extend anonymity in rape cases to defendants”, Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) and my right when ideally it should say, “We will consult on the hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr Cameron), the issue.” If it had said that, many things would have been current Prime Minister. Those are the names listed on a lot easier, as they also would have been if it had the Home Affairs Committee 2003 report, and their followed the Select Committee on Home Affairs 2003 proposals were clear. As was explained by the current report in respect of sexual offences. We all understand Select Committee Chairman, there were good reasons that mistakes may have been made in the drafting of the why on balance they came down in favour of anonymity coalition agreement, and I see no difficulty in these not for rape specifically, but for sexual offences. As is matters being reconsidered and handled in a better way well known, they had the support of the Metropolitan upon reasoned conclusion over the coming months police, which is relevant because the police have been and years. often mentioned today. They had that support because All of us must accept that the conviction rate is too the Metropolitan police made the point in relation to low, and all of us must also accept—as I attempted to sexual offences, particularly sexual offences involving explain in my intervention on the hon. Member for children, that the publicity was damaging for everyone Swansea West (Geraint Davies)—that much was done involved, not just the defendant. by the police and the previous Government, following So I submit that the favouring of the move is based on from work done down through the years, to provide on the current evidence that is best before us, and that greater assistance on this issue, and it continues to be evidence comes from the Home Affairs Committee. I done. endorse, however, the proposals of the Chairman of I comprehensively reject the idea that the judiciary is that Committee and the hon. Member for Bermondsey fundamentally biased against individual persons. That and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) that this is patently is not the experience of those of us who have spent a lot something that should proceed by way of proper 611 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 612 consultation, ideally by both that Committee and the the years, those difficulties have been recognised and Select Committee on Justice working together and efforts have been made to improve facilities and to addressing all the evidence as they progress. I am certain increase the availability of specialised professionals, that if they did that, a productive and useful process but it is still a big step for a victim to come forward to would be engaged in and the matter would move forward. report rape. I wish briefly to discuss the issue of teachers and One major deterrent to rape victims coming forward doctors, because I endorse entirely the proposals in is the worry that they will not be believed. Giving rape respect of them, having also represented teachers who defendants, and only rape defendants, anonymity sends have been affected and been subject to allegations. This a very clear message to rape victims, more than 90% of is a question that this House has to grasp, because whom are women, that they are unlikely to be believed. although schools are not being paralysed, they are It reinforces many of the insidious myths about rape—for being considerably affected by the way in which teachers example, that somehow the victim was asking for it or are struggling to cope with these issues. I finish by was somehow responsible for it happening. saying that I support the proposal in broad terms, but it Victims are very worried about the attitudes they will is capable of great improvement. encounter if they report rape. Unfortunately, in a report produced in 2007, Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution 4.46 pm Service inspectorate has shown that a key problem in the investigation of rape cases is “a culture of scepticism” Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): I welcome the opportunity among many police officers and prosecutors. Giving to speak in this important debate, but I am concerned anonymity only to rape defendants will serve merely to and saddened that the coalition Government have proposed reinforce that culture of scepticism, and although the to give anonymity to rape defendants. I do not wish to culture might be slowly changing the perception of repeat many of the excellent points made by my hon. many women is that it still exists. The fact that women Friends, and by the hon. Members for Broxtowe (Anna perceive that to be the culture is making them reluctant Soubry) and for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who have brought to come forward and giving anonymity to rape defendants their professional expertise to bear on this subject, but will only reinforce their concerns. this is a serious issue. The proposal is like giving some sort of charter to Being falsely accused of any serious crime can have serial rapists. Whereas now when a defendant is named, devastating effects on a person’s life. However, experts other victims are given the courage to come forward in the field confirm that false accusations of rape are and provide additional evidence that can help to secure very rare. The Association of Chief Police Officers rape a conviction—many such cases have been cited this lead, Chief Constable Whatton, has said: afternoon—what is proposed will do the opposite. It “The public perception is that there are lots of false allegations; will hamper police investigations and make it much my professional view is that there aren’t”. easier for serial offenders to avoid detection and to Likewise, Baroness Stern’s “review into how rape complaints reoffend again and again. We all know that it is well are handled by public authorities in England and Wales” documented how such people try to get themselves into states that a position of trust or a position in which they know “those we spoke to in the system felt that there were very few. A they will have the opportunity to repeat their crime Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) lawyer told us, ‘They are extremely again and again. rare. I have been prosecuting for 20 years, and have prosecuted for Do the Government recognise that giving rape defendants a false allegation once.’ The judges we talked to said these cases occur very infrequently. An experienced police officer had come greater protection could reduce conviction rates, particularly across two such cases in 15 years.” for serial rapists? Do they realise what a negative message So giving anonymity only to rape defendants sends they are sending to victims of rape—that they, and they out a very clear message to rape victims that they alone alone, are not to be believed? are not to be believed. It tells them that they alone are Enormous efforts have been made to improve the not to be taken seriously. It suggests to them that there treatment of rape survivors in the criminal justice system, is no point in coming forward because nobody will but no matter what is done reporting rape will always be believe them and, worse than that, as they will not be traumatic. I implore the Minister not to proceed to believed there is no chance that the rapist will be convicted accord anonymity to rape defendants because it would and so there is no point in reporting rape. This would be be an immense backward step and would undo a lot of a very backward step. Rape has a devastating effect on the good work that has been done in this area. the victim, with the after-effects lasting for years. It is a particularly difficult crime to report and it can occur in 4.52 pm a wide range of circumstances; it is far more widespread Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Several than is commonly known, with some 2,000 women Members have asked the rhetorical question, “Why raped every week and some 10,000 women sexually treat rape differently?” The reality is—I say this having abused. had 16 years of experience at the criminal Bar in Victims of rape naturally find it very difficult to come England and Wales—that it would not be treated differently forward, because they are often very embarrassed about by the law in several respects. The identity of defendants what has happened, and manipulative rapists can often is withheld every day in hundreds of cases in our make the victim somehow feel partially responsible for criminal justice system in cases in youth courts, or those the assault that has taken place. Victims are very worried with persons under the age of 16 who are involved in about having to describe to complete strangers what has proceedings. That has been so since the Children and happened. They are also very worried about what they Young Persons Act 1933, so there are plenty of such know will be a very long and complicated process and examples every day. I accept that that relates to young about being cross-examined about intimate details. Over people, but the principle exists. 613 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 614

[Michael Ellis] differentiation, but jurors invariably do make a distinction. Many members of the Bar have found that jurors are That principle was reinforced by the previous Labour reluctant to convict of rape when there have been Government and applied to adults in relation to certain historical sexual relations of a consensual sort many terrorist offences. Thanks to Labour legislation, the times, because they know that the sentence will be anonymity of defendants was applied in those cases, particularly severe. which is why one reads in the media about the cases of Labour Members often ask what makes rape different, N or A. When Labour Members refer to the uniqueness but their Government made it different legally. One of this proposition, I would submit that they are wrong more example of that is that the Youth Justice and for those reasons. Criminal Evidence Act 1999 recognised sexual offences Rape is also different from other offences. Often it is as different, and section 41 placed restrictions on the one person’s word against that of another, particularly cross-examination of rape complainants, creating a as regards allegations when consent is an issue. Of presumption against asking questions about previous course, in cases when consent is not an issue, the same sexual history. I do not argue that that is inappropriate, principle does not apply. A situation in which the evidence but it does restrict barristers from asking questions in is the word of one person against that of another—I do court in a way that simply does not apply to other types not exclude males here, because males can be victims of of offence. rape, as we have discussed—can never be the case in allegations of sexual offences against children. Consent Glenda Jackson: Why does the hon. Gentleman think will never be the issue there. When consent is an issue that the previous Government changed the law in that among adults in a rape case, there is often no supporting way? Surely it was because of the kind of severe cross- evidence for a jury to get a grip of that can corroborate examination of rape victims that had taken place previously a complainant’s account. That makes rape different in which victims were reduced to tears in the witness from many other offences that are prosecuted in our box, which had clear implications. One point that we courts and it might partly account for the exceptionally have been arguing all afternoon is that that reduced the low conviction rate for rape—assuming that one accepts likelihood of a woman who had experienced rape from there is an unusually low conviction rate, because that is coming forward and making such allegations. not universally accepted within the profession. In every case, jurors have to be sure of a defendant’s Michael Ellis: Nothing I say is designed to make it guilt beyond reasonable doubt before they convict. When more difficult for women to make a complaint of rape. I it is one person’s word against another’s, my experience, accept and understand from my professional knowledge and no doubt that of others who have practised in the that it is an extremely difficult thing for women and criminal courts, is that juries may be unconvinced that men to do. However, my example showed how that they can be sure enough to convict someone of such a offence is treated differently by the law. When Opposition serious offence. In almost every other case nowadays, Members ask why I say that such cases are different before a court prosecution is launched, the Crown from all others, I fear that their argument is weakened Prosecution Service will require corroborative inculpatory by the provisions in their 1999 Act. evidence against the defendant, such as forensic, CCTV We are not talking about false allegations of rape as or eye-witness evidence. The prosecution would be very such, but it is right to bear it in mind that we have a unlikely to proceed in cases of murder, grievous bodily system that we must cherish: a person is innocent until harm or similar offences without some evidence other proven guilty. I accept that there must be no barrier to than one person saying, “This is what happened.” people making a complaint, because it is already extremely No doubt, hon. Members will know that in every difficult for them to do so; but Her Majesty’s Government case the CPS has to satisfy itself regarding two criteria— are not trying to do that in this proposal. Rape is first, that there is a realistic prospect of conviction and uniquely stigmatising, so much so that if one goes to secondly, that it is in the public interest to proceed. To prison, as I have done—obviously to see clients—one satisfy the first test, supporting evidence would invariably can see what happens there. Prisoners charged with be needed. It has been my experience, and that of others rape—never mind convicted—are treated differently from from the Bar who have spoken in the debate, that that other prisoners. The sad reality is that a person charged test seems not to have been applied by prosecutors in or convicted of murder or a serious offence of violence rape cases. It seems that prosecutors are much more can actually be respected in the prisoner context, but robust about telling the police that they are disinclined those accused of rape have to be segregated. There is a to prosecute grievous bodily harm or actual bodily unique stigma. harm cases to court because there is not enough evidence, Rape is uniquely stigmatising and it is already treated whereas that decision seems to be left more to jurors in differently by the law. I give an example, from my legal rape cases. I urge that prosecutors should think carefully knowledge. A 17-year-old military recruit and a younger about applying a proper test to rape, because nothing in girl, aged 16, made contact via the internet. He travelled law separates rape cases from the requirement that there to meet her and they had sexual relations. He drove her should be a realistic prospect of conviction. Rape has home, by which time her father was out looking for her; those unique characteristics, and so it stands apart from indeed, she saw him in the car. At her doorstep, the most other offences in the criminal lexicon. mother asked, “What has he made you do?” The girl A second reason that I offer for the low conviction had some psychological problems and it was clear from rate is the fact that the law makes no differentiation computer conversations with friends that she was very between a stranger rape, as they are sometimes called, frightened, but it was also apparent that the case was and another type of rape in which the accused is known prosecuted wholly partially, with officers repeatedly to the victim. I am not calling for the law to make that reassuring her at interview that she had done the right 615 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 616 thing. Of course, they wanted to do the right thing for sensitive subject has been such as to make me feel very her, but one has to ask whether it is doing the right privileged to take part in it, although I still regret thing by a complainant to reassure her repeatedly and absolutely the necessity for me to do so. not put her, or him, to the test on the quality of their I want to share with the House the experience of one evidence. It will be explored in court proceedings, which of my constituents, to illustrate the distress that the puts the complainant under even more pressure. coalition’s proposals are already causing to many people In the case I am describing, the young man was in my constituency. I should say that the family concerned remanded, released on bail and remanded again. The asked me specifically to share this information when case came before a Crown Court judge and when counsel— they heard of the coalition’s proposals. not me—asked the first question, “He didn’t rape you, I will be keeping the identity of my constituent private. did he?”, the answer was “No”, and the case was When we hon. Members make reference to victims of dismissed. other crimes, such as murder or stabbings, we often I regret to inform Members that such cases happen name them. We do so because we think that brings on a regular basis. honour on them. But not in the case of rape. The stigma of rape still contaminates the victim, even in the 21st century. Caroline Flint: The hon. Gentleman suggests that I know that we all believe that that is wrong, and that such cases happen on a regular basis, but there is no many Members on both sides of the House, and indeed evidence—it is anecdotal. One of the things Baroness people across the country, have worked for years to Stern was asking for was better evidence of false allegation eliminate that stigma, and huge progress has been made. in all crimes, including rape. We need to get the data and But the coalition’s plans risk endangering much of that evidence right, because such phrases do not help the progress. That is because giving rape defendants anonymity debate at all. is a unique fashion of saying to the public, to the jury and to the victim him or herself, that victims are not to Michael Ellis: In the absence of statistics, one can be trusted. only go by one’s anecdotal experience, and it is reasonable for barristers who have worked in the Crown Court My constituent was raped many years ago now, but daily for many years to draw on that experience. I differ her experience still impacts on her life and that of her from what the hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) family. Her attacker drove into her, causing her a minor said about the number of cases prosecuted as perversions injury. He then apologised profusely and offered to give of the course of justice or malicious reporting of rape. her a lift home. En route he parked and forced her into a That number will be very much lower than the average. disused building, where he raped her after repeatedly That is because it is very difficult to prove a negative, punching her in the face. She was held hostage for many and one would normally have to ascertain that the hours. She feared for her life, and indeed her life was in complaint was made in wholly and probably dishonest the gift of her attacker. Fortunately, she managed to circumstances—for example, it might later transpire escape, and fortunately also the police were able to trace that the complainant and the victim were in two different the attacker. But even after arrest, my constituent’s locations. But it is illogical for the hon. Lady to draw attacker viewed his crime with little seriousness. He the conclusion that because there are X prosecutions for intended to plead not guilty. He said the victim wanted perverting the course of justice, there are not that many it all along. After all, she had got into the car with him; false accusations. The two are totally different. she must be in the habit of having such encounters with strangers on the street. And it was only her word Nia Griffith: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that I against his. One can only imagine how distressing that was quoting the professionals who have been involved was not only for the victim, but for her family. for many, many years in such cases? I was not quoting I want to emphasise that the reporting of rape is the number of actual cases that might have been brought. always a distressing experience for the victim and those I was quoting what the professionals had said, and they who are around him or her. By introducing these proposals, said that the number of false accusations being made the coalition is now making my constituent and her anywhere in the process was extremely low. family relive that experience. In her case, only when another of her attacker’s victims came forward, owing Michael Ellis: Nothing that I have said is designed to to the publicity and the naming of the attacker, did the protect the guilty. I accept what the hon. Lady says. As case become strong enough that the defendant decided far as I am concerned—I emphasise this—anyone convicted to plead guilty, thereby saving her from the trauma of of this sort of crime deserves the full wrath of the law having to give evidence. That ended the prospect of my and society. I am motivated here—I am sure that all constituent having to relive her pain in a court case, but Members would sympathise with this—by the protection she is still reliving her pain now when she thinks that, if of the innocent, and the ancient principle that all in this the coalition’s proposals had been in place, her attacker country are innocent unless or until they are proven may never have been convicted. guilty is a principle that we should never derogate. The Government’s main argument, as we can understand it, for giving rape defendants anonymity seems to rest 5.6 pm on the possibility of false allegations. It is true that false Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): I allegations of any serious crime can ruin lives. It is will not speak for long, as many of the arguments that I terribly distressing to be falsely accused of any crime, wanted to make against the coalition’s proposals have and we must do all that we can in the justice system to already been made very eloquently and forcefully by minimise the likelihood of that happening. However, as fellow Members on the Opposition Benches—and also, I believe the Minister acknowledged, there is no greater on occasion, by those on the other side of the House. likelihood of false allegations being made in cases of With some exceptions, the level of debate on this very rape than in cases of other crimes, whereas we all 617 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 618

[Chi Onwurah] of the phrase in the coalition document. It says that we will introduce anonymity for rape defendants, not that know—we have the statistics to show it—that the under- we will bring forward anonymity only for rape defendants. reporting of rape is far greater than that of other crimes My hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe, in her very of a similarly serious nature. So why does it make sense fine speech, offered a good compromise that Ministers to introduce these proposals to give anonymity to might like to consider. She suggested that there is a case defendants when we need to do all that we can to for looking at the trauma of people who are wrongly encourage rape victims to come forward? accused of crimes of all stripes, and for considering Hon. Members have discussed the principle that widening anonymity to those accused of sexual crimes anonymity is awarded in relation to vulnerability, such or crimes of extreme violence. They might also consider as that of children. Children, the victims of organised giving discretion to judges and the police. Surely that is crime and rape victims are given anonymity, but rape one way forward. defendants do not fit into that mould of vulnerability. As I said, I am encouraged that the Government wish Indeed, the Minister said that one reason for giving to consult. Clearly, as we have seen from the tenor of anonymity was to create—I think that this was his the debate, this is not and cannot be a party political phrase—a balance of arms. I hope that he did not mean issue. My right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor to imply that the objective of our criminal justice system suggested that there could be a free vote, and I associate is somehow to clear the ground, so that the defendant myself with the plea that my hon. Friend the Member and the claimant can fight it out like some sort of for Totnes made for that. However, if that is not the mediaeval tournament. That would be a regressive step. case, we might look at expanding the application of I hope that the coalition will understand that anonymity. That would give a way forward that could these proposals will take our criminal justice backwards command support and respect on both sides of the and that, if we want to live in a society, as I am sure House. I am very encouraged by the way in which the that we all do, where respect for law and belief in Government are seeking to consult properly and to justice are given to all, male or female, defendants and listen to Members on all sides of this very important accused, awarding anonymity to defendants will be a issue. most regressive step. 5.17 pm 5.14 pm Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con): I am glad to Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): have the chance to contribute however briefly to the May I begin by paying tribute to the excellent maiden debate. I must start by apologising to you, Mr Deputy speakers? In that, I single out the astute comments of Speaker, and to the whole House for the fact that I my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham cannot be present for the winding-up speeches since I (Rehman Chishti), who mentioned all his local newspapers. have an urgent appointment in my constituency with It made me wish that I had mentioned during my the fine young men and women who serve in the Corby maiden speech what fantastic publications we have in Oxford Mail Oxford Times Abingdon Herald air cadets. I hope that Ministers will forgive me. I will the ,the ,the , Oxford Journal therefore be very brief, because everything that needs to and the . be said has already been said. We have seen—have we From the outset, I must declare that I have great not?—politics at its best in the debate, which has been sympathy with some of the objections that I heard non-partisan, sober, well judged and rational. today. Just last week, there was an attempt to abduct a I associate myself with the remarks of my hon. young girl in my constituency from outside a primary Friends the Members for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), for school just five minutes from my home in Oxford. I Totnes (Dr Wollaston), for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) would not want to support any action that would make and for Hexham (Guy Opperman). I am also most it harder to find that man and bring him to justice, or encouraged by what the Minister said today, because action that would make it harder to prevent him from the coalition Government are proceeding in the proper actually succeeding on a future occasion. way. It is clear that they intend to consult and to listen. I I have spent some time investigating sexual violence am not persuaded that a long, formal consultation is in conflict for the Conservatives’ human rights commission necessary as long as the informal consultation is wide and as a volunteer for the local domestic abuse group. I and genuine. have met, and heard the testimony of, victims of some I urge Ministers to take account of the views of no of the worst crimes imaginable. Those testimonies are less a personage than my right hon. Friend the Prime seared on my memory, and it is difficult for me to Minister, who referred in a reply to the right hon. and remain completely objective on this issue. As a result, learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms the suggestion of granting anonymity to rape defendants Harman) to the 2003 report by the Select Committee on made me very nervous. I am worried that the proposal Home Affairs. We heard today from the right hon. will send the wrong message to rape victims at a time Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) exactly what the when we have managed to turn around the culture of Committee’s proposals were. If the House will forgive a disbelief and the poor treatment of rape victims by little repetition, they were that we should consider extending police and the courts. Credit must go to the previous anonymity to those accused of all kinds of sexual Labour Government and some of my hon. Friends for crimes, including sexual crimes against children. the impressive work they did in the past decade to Surely the main concern—it has been raised by hon. achieve that. Members on both sides of the House—is the exceptional I am also concerned that anonymity will prevent nature of rape that is implied in the current proposals. women who find out that their rapist is charged with However, I suggest that the Minister look at the wording another offence from coming forward. At the same 619 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 620 time, we must accept that in this country, innocent until able to contain gossip-mongering and I would like to proven guilty is the fundamental tenet of our law, and see that taken into consideration in the inquiry and the we must defend it fiercely. The imperative to protect expert evidence over the summer. It is worth considering ourselves, our families and our communities is one of whether there is a way to provide some workable form the strongest that we experience, but we must ensure of anonymity to those accused of all sexual offences in that in trying to do that, we do not give away the very limited circumstances and for limited periods of time. life we want to protect. The rule of law shields us in our As I say that, I am very conscious that we have heard innocence and punishes us only in guilt. some very learned contributions from many lawyers I must disagree with some of the comments made today. I am not a lawyer and I hope that hon. Members today. On the moral spectrum of our culture, sexual will bear with me as I try to articulate some of the areas offences—especially rape and paedophilia—rank higher that concern me. in public disgust than many other offences. It is for that Few of us on either side of this House would be reason that if we heard that a teacher at our child’s comfortable with the suggestion that automatic anonymity school or a local GP had been accused of rape, we should be granted for any point beyond charge. If would find it very difficult not to take action to protect proposals were to be made, I would be keen to see a our children on the basis of that suspicion, but if we framework that required judicial oversight after charge found out that one of the governors had been accused and a set of criteria that limited eligibility to exceptional of theft, we would wait to test the veracity of the circumstances, for example where the police do not allegation before taking action. consider the defendant a risk to others or if his ability to continue working or living in his community would Maria Eagle: The Government’s proposal is not to be catastrophically affected. As has been mentioned, in give anonymity to those accused of paedophilia. Rumours 2003 the Home Affairs Committee recommended abound in schools when things go wrong, and if someone anonymity between allegation and charge, but I would were protected by anonymity and another child were to point out that that was for all sexual offences, not just be hurt by that perpetrator, what kind of signal would rape. It seems reasonable to offer anonymity for the first that send to society? period, but I am not necessarily convinced about any period beyond that. Nicola Blackwood: I am merely trying to make the I am also concerned about the impact anonymity point that our culture ascribes greater disapprobation might have through additional bureaucracy, if individuals to sexual offences than it does to other offences—as will have to fill in extra forms and go to court for a some in this Chamber have claimed. judgment, about a time lapse in charging, and about I have a constituent who was wrongly recorded as whether that will have an effect on fairness and conviction being a sex offender for 15 years before he discovered rates. I would welcome more specialised evidence, and I the error, and the distress that he has experienced has would feel reassured if the inquiry to which the Minister been extreme. Ironically, the very fact that conviction referred were to include significant, if not formal, rates for rape are so very low and reoffending rates so consultation with those who work on the front line of famously high perpetuates this culture. When so many support services for sexual offences victims. A great defendants are acquitted, there is a sense that it is not deal of concern has been expressed by some in my because they are innocent but because the system is so constituency, and it would be appreciated if they could poor that it is letting off the guilty. There is a sense that be consulted. even if they got off that time, the likelihood is that they I do not want to continue much longer, because there will do it again and probably do something worse. That has been much debate already and most of the points means that acquittal in sexual offence trials accords the have already been made. However, before being satisfied defendant legal innocence, but does not necessarily that defendant anonymity will be workable, I would accord them innocence in the court of public opinion—they want to know that other options for bringing multiple may have lost that forever. victims forward, such as publicising the modus operandi, would be just as effective as publicising identity. I would Meg Munn: I apologise to the hon. Lady for not want to know that this anonymity would not prevent being in my place at the very start of her speech. police from using artistic impressions or closed circuit Unfortunately, the situation she has just described reflects television shots to hunt suspected criminals where the fact that it is difficult to achieve a conviction in appropriate. I would also want to know that in the sexual offence cases. Some of those who have committed labyrinth that is the prosecution of sexual offences, it is offences will be found not guilty because the case has possible to produce workable legislation, the bureaucratic not been proven. burden of which does not outweigh its value. Most of all, however, I just want to be convinced of Nicola Blackwood: I accept that, which is why we are one thing: that introducing anonymity for these defendants in such a difficult position and why this debate is will not make it harder to convict those who are guilty. I important. will not close my mind to the possibility that anonymity In an age of tabloid journalism, the internet and for sexual offence defendants might be a useful tool in social networking, the potential damage that such an our justice system, but it is wrong that those wrongly allegation can cause has increased exponentially and it accused of rape should have their lives permanently has become dramatically more difficult to contain. Let destroyed. However, let us ensure that, in offering us not pretend that we always respond moderately to anonymity, we are not creating another wrong and such allegations. Recently, a paediatrician was targeted setting back sexual offence legislation. Two wrongs do because it was thought that she was a paedophile. I am not make a right, and the road this far has been a long unsure whether the granting of anonymity would be and hard one. 621 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 622

5.27 pm of the policy, if it is proceeded with in the way that it is set out at present, for ensuring that rape victims come Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): We forward to report rape and can be supported all the way have had an extremely good debate across the Chamber through to trial, and that justice is served and those on this thorny issue. I welcome the debate, and thank guilty of rape are found guilty of it and dealt with the Leader of the House for listening to the entreaties appropriately by society. for one, and the Government for finding the time to provide it. It might have something to do with the lack All those speakers had helpful points to make about of legislation at present, but none the less we are grateful their experience and suggestions for how the policy— to the Government for finding the time to have it. wherever it came from and whatever its provenance—might be improved. I am grateful to the hon. Member for I congratulate all those who have spoken on both Broxtowe and others for the tributes that they paid to sides of the House, because the debate has been of an the strides taken by the previous Government. The hon. exceptionally high quality. In particular, I congratulate Lady said that she had a private Member’s Bill, and we the hon. Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman look forward to seeing her take it forward. I am not Chishti), who is no longer in his place, but who earlier quite sure what number she came in at, but—[Interruption.] made his maiden speech. Although I did not agree with I gather that she will get a chance for a Second Reading, absolutely everything he said, Labour Members were in which some of us will no doubt take part. grateful for his kind remarks about his predecessor, Paul Clark, who is a friend of mine. I noticed that the Like many Members, the hon. Lady also questioned hon. Gentleman was a bit of a rebel, because he said he why the coalition had decided that rape was the only believed in anonymity for all sexual offences until conviction, offence where the defendant ought to be protected in rather than just until charge, which the Minister argued the way proposed, and I do not think that we have yet for. heard a satisfactory answer to that. Many Members I also congratulate the hon. Member for Cannock have suggested that even if one accepts the unique Chase (Mr Burley), who is in his place, on his maiden difficulty of dealing with the offence of rape, there are speech. He conjured up a picture of his constituency other sexual offences that have similar difficulties. With that I think we all enjoyed. However, he conjured up respect, I do not think that the explanation that the more of a picture of his family, which we all enjoyed hon. Member for Northampton North gave convinced possibly even more. I would have liked to have met his all of us on this side of the House. He referred to the grandmother—I wonder what she would have thought youth courts, but defendants in the youth courts are about him sitting on the Tory Benches. [Interruption.] granted anonymity because of their youth across the He does not have to answer that. She would no doubt entire range of offences. Therefore, the argument about have been proud in one way. The hon. Gentleman singling out defendants in rape cases as uniquely needing admitted to seeing Simply Red with his mother and such protection is not dealt with by his point. girlfriend, which was a risky thing to do, but none the We also heard from the hon. Member for Totnes less I am sure he will prove an assiduous Member of the (Dr Wollaston), who I had not realised was a forensic House. He paid generous tribute to his predecessor, medical examiner. She brought to her speech the clarity Tony Wright, to whom we on both sides of the House and succinctness of her scientific background, speaking have reason to be grateful—I have more reason than briefly but making some extremely salient points. She most because I inherited his office. From my point of said that, from her experience of dealing with victims at view, therefore, it is particularly good to see the hon. that sensitive time shortly after they have been attacked Gentleman in his place—if he understands my point! and reported the incident, she knows that the majority I want also to congratulate Members from both sides of such crimes are not reported and that fewer than of the House. Perhaps more so than in most debates, we 5% of the women she saw ended up securing a conviction. have heard contributions informed by the professional Perhaps most importantly, the hon. Lady made it experience of those Members who have spoken. The clear that it was her impression, from her professional hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark experience, that many women have the courage to come (Simon Hughes) was a criminal barrister before he forward and report an incident—thereby setting out on came to this place, and he spoke from his experience in that long and difficult road—only because they think that respect. He also set out—in some detail and quite that they are helping other women. If any policy, well illuminatingly—the source of the policy that the hon. intentioned or otherwise, prevents women at that sensitive Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench are having to front time from thinking that they will help other women by up, which is a policy that probably did not appear in the reporting, we will be doing them a disservice by proceeding coalition programme for government at their suggestion. with it. What will happen is less reporting; consequently, He set out in detail the policy that the Liberal Democrats there will be more scepticism and more rapists will get adopted, which appeared to be a minor part of an away with it. My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea extensive debate at their conference. Indeed, the suggestion West (Geraint Davies), among others, made the important appears to have been made that there should be anonymity point that serial rapists would get away with it, which to conviction, and in a much wider range of offences would equate to there being more victims. The speech of too. the hon. Member for Totnes was brief, but it was The hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) also extremely salient. has experience as a criminal barrister, as do the hon. My right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley Members for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), for Hexham (Caroline Flint) made an extremely good speech, as we (Guy Opperman) and for Northampton North (Michael have come to expect from her. She took up this issue at Ellis). One of the things that struck me about many— an early stage and pressed the Government on it, and, although not all—of the contributions that we heard as the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. was a deep scepticism about the possible consequences Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt) knows well, she does 623 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 624 not let go once she gets started. Her speech was not only matters further, as I—and Members across the House—urge powerful but extremely salient. She said that the them to do. What will be the impact of anonymity at Government had today spurned the opportunity to whatever level—for charge, for conviction, for rape or retreat a little further, having thought about the matter for a wider range of offences—on the ability of victims in more detail. The Under-Secretary of State for Justice, to report attacks and on the likelihood of them being the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) would believed? It is important for Ministers to consider that do us all a favour—including, I dare say, his colleague, question. Also, what impact will it have on the ability of the hon. Member for Reigate—if he were to tell us at the police to investigate and catch rapists? What impact the end of the debate that the Government were willing will the proposed reporting restrictions have on our free to listen a little more than they have so far, and willing press and the concept of open justice? We must remember to go away and do a number of things, which I shall that the wider we extend such a provision, the greater come to in a moment. the impact on the very basis of our justice system, Similarly, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, according to which allegations are made, cases are Heeley (Meg Munn) brought to her speech her experience heard and dealt with in public, so that justice can be as a social worker of dealing with some of these issues. seen to be done as well as be done. These are important Her speech was also extremely powerful. It helps the concepts and the wider we range across breaching that House, when we are considering these matters, to have system, the more fundamental the risk to it. such a professional perspective from Members. She said Will these proposals really make it easier to catch and that this was an ill-thought-out policy, and she urged convict rapists? Why, oh why, single out rape as a crime the Government to think again, as many people have for different treatment? We should look at the impact—not done. She brought great insight to her remarks, based just the intentional impact, which one accepts is obviously on her professional experience, and said that we should not to make things worse—of doing so. What will be never underestimate the difficulties involved in prosecuting the practical impact on the victims who might otherwise rape. have come forward? Let us have the research done on Importantly, my hon. Friend said that we had to the level of malicious false reporting. Baroness Stern proceed from a position of believing people. We do not has called for it, and a number of Members have said necessarily need to say a complainant, “I’m going to that the evidence base is not extensive enough for us to believe you 100%, regardless of the evidence arising out be clear. That is true, so let us have that report. of the investigation”, but when a woman, man or child Finally, how does anonymity for defendants improve comes forward to report a rape, we must not start by the conviction rate for rape? At the end of the day, it is giving them the impression that we probably do not the conviction rate that we all want to see improved. believe that it happened. There was far too much of that That is what will send out the signal from society that from the statutory services in the past, but we have this crime will not be tolerated and that we fully intend moved away from that now. The barristers on the to crack down on it. Government Benches who have spoken today made it clear that things have improved, and I agree with them. Let me ask the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, We must not do anything that takes us back to those the hon. Member for Huntingdon three things before bad old days. he replies. Can this new research on attrition and the level of false reporting that Baroness Stern has called My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West urged for be carried out before the policy is finalised, implemented the Government to think again, describing the anonymity and legislated for? Will he give us an assurance that the proposal as a dog whistle, and saying that it would research will not simply be a review from a senior civil protect serial rapists, resulting in more people getting servant—all of whom in the Ministry of Justice I greatly away with rape and fewer victims coming forward. It ill respect, by the way? We do not want just a survey of the behoves the Government to ignore those warnings; they existing evidence base, which would be helpful but really should bear those concerns in mind. would not take us forward. We could all go to one place My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella to read it, but it would not add to our knowledge. Can Creasy) pointed out the inconsistencies and complications we have real research, as Baroness Stern has suggested, of the policy, as well as some of the unintended into the real level of malicious false reporting? That is consequences that might follow if it is introduced very the important issue here. quickly. My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Secondly, can we have a proper and full public Griffith) tackled the issue of false allegations, and set consultation? The call for it from across the Chamber out the argument why, in her opinion, the measure has been widespread, including from some Members would represent a retrograde and undesirable step. She who have supported the proposals and others who have made her arguments very strongly. expressed grave doubts about them. I was concerned My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon when the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) powerfully described the Member for Reigate promised “a consultation”, but experience of one of her constituents, illustrating how only a short, limited and restricted one. For a subject as publicity can be important in certain instances. Other sensitive and important as this one, such a low and hon. Members have also set out the experiences of restrictive level of consultation is insufficient, especially those who have been wrongly accused, which were when the change could have a big impact on our capacity different from that described by my hon. Friend. Of to deal with this crime. There is no argument against course, one case alone cannot change the law, and we having a proper and full public consultation, particularly must look across the board at the impact of all these if it is true that the Government do not intend early factors on this particularly sensitive issue. legislation on this issue. I want the Minister who is The Government should be asking themselves a number about to reply to commit himself and his Government of questions when they go away to consider these to giving us the consultation we want. 625 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 626

[Maria Eagle] To be fair, as the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood noted, we set aside a whole day in Government Finally, I have been struck by the high level of dissent time for this debate. I trust that that leaves the House expressed by those on the Government Benches behind under no illusions from the outset about the importance the Minister. It has been gently and politely put and has with which we regard this issue, our desire to give rightly been couched in professional terms, but it is direction on what is required, and how we will move the dissent none the less. A great deal of concern has been issue forward. Hon. Members, not least the hon. Member expressed by Government Members, while for Labour for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) and my hon. Friend Members the concern is universal. The policy that the the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), made Minister who opened the debate seemed determined to many helpful general points on dealing with rape, which pursue is wrong. It is not thought through; it is not were slightly off the specific topic of the debate but based on evidence; and it will have deleterious, and none the less helpful. possibly devastating, effects on women victims of rape and on those who seek to improve the outcomes that Caroline Flint: I appreciate the time and I appreciate society wants in dealing with this horrendous crime. the hon. Gentleman giving way. Am I right in thinking Will the Minister who just about to reply do this for that the Government intend to look at the issue of us? Will he withdraw the proposals, admit that they anonymity with regard to rape only? Clearly, most were not properly thought through, go away, think Members, in all parts of the House, did not want such again, get the evidence in order, and then come back to exclusivity. the House with fully thought-through proposals that are evidence-based and convincing, having consulted Mr Djanogly: It will be in regard to rape, pre-charge—that widely? Were he to do that, he would get a cheer at the is correct. end of his speech. Let us see what he will get. Meg Munn: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? 5.45 pm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Mr Djanogly: I will not, because I have little time and (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): I agree with the shadow Minister I have a lot to do. that we have had a good, informed debate, with tremendous I share my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary’s view contributions from many informed people. It was excellent that our proposal has been somewhat misrepresented. to hear so many good contributions from new Members Our position is not anti-women in any way, shape or on both sides of the House. Generally, the debate has form. It does not imply any view of the prevalence or been non-partisan, which, given the subject matter, is otherwise of false allegations. There is no evidence that healthy. our position will reduce the likelihood of women reporting I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for rape, as has been suggested. There is considerable evidence Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) on an excellent that rape is under-reported and that most attrition and thoughtful maiden speech, which let us in on the happens in the pre-charge stages where victims or the lasting effect of his having had a single-sex education. police decide not to proceed. The difficulties involved My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase for victims were well explained by the hon. Member for (Mr Burley) made an eloquent maiden speech, and his Sheffield, Heeley and my hon. Friend the Member for proposals to beat the fear of crime through a community-led Totnes (Dr Wollaston). They advised that we must be approach were well put. We will forgive him the Simply careful not to create barriers preventing victims from Red concert last weekend. coming forward. The hon. Member for Swansea West The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria (Geraint Davies) and my hon. Friend the Member for Eagle) made a strong opening speech, but it was sometimes Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood) drew based on proposals that are simply not the Government’s attention to the dangers that would result if we got that position. She said that we were not saying what the wrong. Government’s position is. In response to her, and to the Many Members explained why rape is often not hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) who reported to the police. As the hon. Member for Llanelli made the same point, I say that the Under-Secretary of (Nia Griffith) pointed out, victims may think that the State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate police will not see what happened as rape, they may (Mr Blunt), made our position clear in his opening have a general distrust of the police and criminal justice remarks. Let me repeat what he said: we intend to agencies, or there may be language or communication strengthen and formalise the current arrangements for difficulties. Sometimes there is a fear of disbelief, blame, anonymity up to the point of charge in rape cases. We judgment or further attack, or a fear that friends or will publish an independent report of existing research family will come to know about the incident. I was on rape before the summer recess, and following the pleased that the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley and request of the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) we will consider whether new research is required to noted that rape is not a gender issue. The issue normally supplement it. Obviously, we will make a further comes down to the lack of consent. My hon. Friend the announcement in the autumn. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis) elaborated The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith very well on that point, as did the hon. Member for Vaz) questioned the independence of the report Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah). commissioned. I assure him that the report will be Let me make it clear to the hon. Member for Hampstead peer-reviewed by two independent, external experts, and Kilburn (Glenda Jackson) that the Government are that their comments will be addressed by the report not complacent about rape. As she will know, 18% of authors, and that the process will be rigorous. respondents to a recent London survey of 1,061 people 627 Defendant Anonymity8 JULY 2010 Defendant Anonymity 628 aged 18 to 50 agreed with the statement that most Anonymity in rape cases is clearly precedented. If claims of rape are probably not true. That is obviously a other offences are now to be included, we will need to matter of great concern, which is why it is so important review which ones. We will need to do that very carefully, for the Government to continue to work hard, in partnership not least because of the impact the arguments for press with other agencies, to engender a more civilised 21st- freedom will have on the scope. We will want the scope century view. to be as narrow as possible. This is a big area and we will remain open to discussion, but it needs to be put in Glenda Jackson: Will the Minister give way? that context. Mr Djanogly: I am afraid I cannot. The issue of anonymity for rape defendants has been Let me say to the right hon. Member for Don Valley bound up by some with our other coalition commitment (Caroline Flint) and the hon. Member for Walthamstow that we will give anonymity to teachers accused by that, as my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State pupils. That also has a long and complex history, as was told the House earlier, there is no evidence that defendant highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford anonymity would have an adverse impact on reporting. West and Abingdon, but we do not necessarily see the Victims may well be encouraged to come forward by the two situations as the same. The two commitments we understanding that the criminal justice system is likely have made will need to be reviewed as stand-alone to deal with their complaint effectively and anonymously, issues even if their remedy may have certain similar but, as my hon. Friend pointed out, it is difficult to aspects. understand how a suspect’s or even a charged defendant’s I have pointed to the complexity of the historical anonymity can have an impact. background, but anonymity also raises some complex A more interesting suggestion relates to anonymity legal issues. In the particular context of rape, it is clear and previous offending by a defendant. Many people that anonymity cannot be invariable and absolute, because claim that defendant anonymity would prevent other there may well be situations in which it should be victims from coming forward. Research conducted by waived. The obvious example is where a suspect needs Feist and others in 2007 suggests that being able to link to be apprehended, but there are others. My hon. Friend an assault to another sexual assault against another the Member for Broxtowe made a strong case for judicial victim is likely to help to secure a conviction, so the involvement in waiving anonymity where relevant, and point is important. my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) There is some anecdotal evidence that publicity also made some wise observations on publicity. Their surrounding a case has allowed more victims to come experience in this area came to the fore in their valuable forward. The case of John Worboys is most commonly contributions. cited in that context, and was indeed cited today by my Another issue was mentioned by my right hon. and hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old learned Friend the Attorney-General during the passage Southwark (Simon Hughes). It is not clear, however, of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. He asked about the whether the defendant’s name or the release of other situation in which the media want to publicise the fact characteristics, such as a suspect’s distinctive modus that public authorities are reluctant to act in a case operandi, is the most important factor. That was mentioned where action appears justified. Another example could by my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford West and be that where suspects wanted to waive their own Abingdon and by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon anonymity, for example in order to establish an alibi. Tyne Central, although I think the latter reached a That would itself generate issues. Should the suspect’s different conclusion. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary right of waiver be absolute, even if it could result in spoke in detail about the point during an Adjournment identifying the complainant in a case? Taking all the debate on 7 June, and I know that he was grateful for above into account, I hope the House understands why the information he subsequently received from the right we have consistently made it clear that we need to hon. Member for Don Valley, who spoke today with address this subject carefully, keeping our options open knowledge about an issue about which she cares very until the time is right to made our detailed position much. known. That approach was clearly right, and remains so. More generally, the overriding impression given by many Members was of the sheer complexity of the The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood criticised subject matter that we have been debating. We heard the coalition Government commitment for containing about the history of anonymity for defendants in rape only a broad statement of principle, but that is what it cases, which goes back well over 30 years. During that was—a broad statement of principle. We have now period, the legislation has fluctuated between diametrically refined it without losing the principle, and we have opposed policy positions, and it has been a talking always been clear that there are various ways in which point over a number of changes of Administration. the commitment could be implemented. As for the scope of anonymity, some Members have My hon. Friends the Members for Corby (Ms Bagshawe), said that our proposals are not specific enough, while for Cannock Chase, for Gillingham and Rainham, others—and, in some instances, the same ones—have for Broxtowe, for Hexham and for Oxford West and said that we are wrong to include only rape, and to Abingdon all in their different ways powerfully and exclude other offences. What we are doing is delivering appropriately described the real and damaging on coalition Government promises. The Opposition consequences of false accusation and the importance of may not like that, but this is what we promised, and this presumption of innocence in our law. The theme of is what we are going to do. I note that the Home Affairs false accusation was elaborated on very eloquently by Committee may now wish to consider the wider issues. the right hon. Member for Leicester East, who asked if We shall be pleased to see its report, and to engage with the Government will be carrying out research into false it and the House on those wider issues. allegations, as called for by Baroness Stern. I can advise 629 8 JULY 2010 630

[Mr Djanogly] First World War Commemoration Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House him that that is under consideration by the relevant do now adjourn.—(Mr Goodwill.) Departments as part of our overall response to Baroness Stern’s review. 6pm The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood mentioned Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): I am aspects of the previous Government’s record on assisting grateful to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me rape victim support, many of which were very worthy this Adjournment debate, whose theme is the forthcoming achievements which we hope to develop. She was less centenary of the outbreak of the first world war, which forthcoming, however, about the fact that, as my hon. will fall in August 2014. It may feel as if that centenary Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark is a little way off, but this debate is timely because today noted, after a decade of Labour Government the situation the Imperial War museum has hosted a national conference for victims is still very far from what anyone in this bringing together representatives of voluntary and Chamber would wish it to be. In that context, I think community groups from across the country to discuss the Opposition may wish to consider working with us the work they can do in preparing for that centenary. on a consensual basis, rather than adopting an aggressive approach to this serious issue. That is what the public In 1964, on the 50th anniversary of the outbreak of will wish to see, I dare to say. In the meantime, as my the first world war, similar co-ordination of activity and hon. Friend the Under-Secretary said earlier, we will events around the country took place. In my constituency, continue to investigate those areas that still require there was an exhibition of war paintings at the Metropole further thought, including whether anonymity might art gallery, which was hosted in conjunction with the frustrate investigations, and any other gaps. Imperial War museum. Co-ordination also took place for the Last Night of the Proms, with music by Vaughan I can assure the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood Williams and Britten acting as a musical commemoration that we will consult and seek views. However, we do not, of the war. Many organisations would seek a similar as my hon. Friend said, see any case for holding a level of co-ordination for this forthcoming centenary formal public consultation as we believe that the detailed between groups involved in heritage and the arts, community arguments on the specific issue of rape are very well groups across the country and the Government. established. Let me conclude by saying that the Government— Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this timely Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)) debate and on mentioning the work that the Imperial War museum does. Will he also pay tribute to the work Business without Debate that it does to build up a national inventory of war memorials? Does he share the concern about the fact BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE that many a war memorial is, sadly, the victim of either neglect or vandalism? Will he join me in the campaign Motion made, by the War Memorials Trust to have all war memorials That, notwithstanding the practice of the House as to the registered by the time of the commemoration? intervals between stages of Bills brought in upon Ways and Means Resolutions, more than one stage of the Finance Bill may Damian Collins: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for be taken at any sitting of the House. —(Mr Goodwill.) that intervention, and I am happy to support that very worthwhile project. The television series produced by Hon. Members: Object. Ian Hislop, “Not Forgotten”, was a good demonstration of the power of memorials, some of which had fallen into abeyance and loss. In two local projects in the villages of Lyminge and Sandgate, in my constituency, local people have decoded the war memorials, using new online materials to look up the stories of the servicemen who served in their own communities, for example, Walter Tull. He is named on the Folkestone war memorial and was the first person who was not a European white male to be commissioned into the British Army—he was commissioned in the field as a second lieutenant during the first world war. He also had the distinction of being the first black man to play in an outfield position in the English football leagues, and his story was really uncovered by a project run by the Dover War Memorial Project. It would be a wonderful way to mark the centenary of the outbreak of the war if similar projects could be launched across the country, perhaps supported by the Imperial War museum and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, to give people toolkits to understand where their memorials are and the stories of the men that lie beyond them. We are all familiar with the fact that although the men who served in that war have passed—indeed, many of their children are probably no longer be with us—their 631 First World War Commemoration8 JULY 2010 First World War Commemoration 632 stories remain. Part of the Chamber in which we sit On the harbour arm of Folkestone harbour, there today is, in some ways, a memorial to the 20 Members was a canteen maintained by Florence and Margaret of this House who lost their lives on active service Jeffrey. They ran the harbour canteen, dispensing free during that war and the many others who saw active cups of tea and refreshments to men before the troops service. One of my predecessors as the Member of boarded. In the case of most people who have an Parliament for the Folkestone and Hythe area, Sir ancestor who served in the first world war, that person Philip Sassoon, was on active service as an officer of the would probably have passed through Folkestone in one East Kent Regiment, which was known as “the Buffs” way or another during that time. There is a record of during the war, and he also led a lot of the local 40,000 names collected in the visitors’ books from those recruitment. Many other distinguished Members of of general servicemen to those of people such as Field this House served in that war too. As Members of Marshall Haig, David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill Parliament, we too can think of a fitting commemoration who passed through the town. With the support of for that centenary. Kent county council, we have started a project to create Today’s conference at the Imperial War museum is a digital record of those names and to scan each of the also being attended by Ann Berry, a former mayor of pages of those books. We are looking to raise funds to Folkestone, who has worked closely with me on our have that as a resource that can be accessed online by own project in Folkestone, Step Short. It seeks to mark people around the world who want to search for stories the recognition of Folkestone’s role during the war. I of their ancestors. It will record them as being in wish to talk a little about that, because it is important to Folkestone on a particular time, place and day during think of the centenary in terms not only of the sacrifices that war. made by allied servicemen in the trenches on the western Most of the men who were in Folkestone during the front and around the world, but of sites of significance war would have assembled on the Leas, outside the in this country. Such sites were well understood in the Grand, which was a great society hotel in the period years after the first world war, but, of course, memory before the war. It was also the place where Wilfred has been lost. Owen, the war poet, spent his last night in England. My friend, Professor Nick Bosanquet, who has kindly They would have been assembled and marched along joined us in the Public Gallery this evening, has, aside the Leas, down a road that during the war was known from his duties at Imperial college and with the Reform as the Slope road, to the harbour before they embarked think-tank, also done work on the significance of UK for the trenches of Belgium and France. For many of sites—particularly Folkestone, which was the major them, that would have been their last journey in England port of embarkation and disembarkation of about 9 million before they went to the trenches, not to return. men during the war, as well as sites in Gretna and Liverpool and of major munitions production as well That is the significance of the UK sites. Hundreds as other sites around the country. It is important that and thousands of people every year make that pilgrimage those stories are not forgotten. themselves to walk in the footsteps of their ancestors in The anniversary of 1914 is in many ways the start of the battlefields. As a schoolboy doing my GCSE studies, an important series of anniversaries: the outbreak of I made that same journey, as many people studying the first world war in 1914; for many in the Commonwealth history as part of the national curriculum and their and the UK, Gallipoli in 1915; the battle of the Somme GCSE courses will do today. To continue shamelessly to in 1916; Passchendaele in 1917; and, of course, the plug my constituency’s heritage links, people can start Armistice in 1918. That theme was picked up by the those journeys and see part of them in this country, too, Irish Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, in a recent speech he without making the trip to France. They can walk, as made to the institute for British-Irish studies. He said many men did, down the Leas in Folkestone and down that in 2016 in particular—a significant date for Ireland— the road that, after the war, was renamed the Road of “the centenary of the Somme will be commemorated here in Remembrance as a national memorial to the sacrifices Dublin, as in Belfast, to honour the heroism of those who fought made by those men—a walk down which many people and died there, Protestant and Catholic, side by side.” could go, retracing their steps. There are elements of The centenary gives us a chance to remember and our heritage, particularly as regards the first world war, reflect. The significance of the first world war is great, that have been lost and forgotten and anything that we not only because of the enormous loss of life on all can do to use the centenary to reconnect people with sides but because that war shaped, in many ways, the those stories and the sacrifices that so many millions of politics of the 20th century and so much of the world in people made during that war would be excellent. which we live today. Will the Minister consider what support the Government The centenary is a good way of uncovering the human could give? It need not necessarily be financial support, story. I was very moved last week to attend a service at but could be support in co-ordinating a national day of Shorncliffe military cemetery in my constituency on remembrance to mark the centenary, perhaps with a 1 July, which is Canada day. The Canadians had many national programme of events. They could work with thousands of men stationed in Folkestone during the the major galleries and museums and the regimental war, 296 of whom are buried in the cemetery. After the museums, particularly at sites with a strong interest, war, the people of the town promised Canada that they and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate would look after and maintain those graves. Every year, (Mr Burrowes) has said, and work in support of the 296 schoolchildren from the constituency sit by individual memorials themselves. That would be a particularly graves with individual presentations of flowers that fitting memorial. they make to the graves as part of a service of memorial. That links the town not only to the story of the first I should also like to know whether the Government world war but to the lives of individual servicemen, too. will consider marking a national day of remembrance, That is a fitting act of memorial. potentially in the form of a bank holiday or a part-bank 633 First World War Commemoration8 JULY 2010 First World War Commemoration 634

[Damian Collins] 6.13 pm holiday on the day of the centenary of the outbreak of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence the war. Might they consider having a permanent national (Mr Andrew Robathan): May I say how nice it is to see bank holiday of remembrance, perhaps on Armistice you in your place, Mr Deputy Speaker? This is the first day or a day of the week near to it, as other countries occasion on which I have been in the Chamber when do? Australia and New Zealand have Anzac day as a you have been in your place. national memorial day, and there are national memorial I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for days in other countries, such as the United States. Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) for drawing Perhaps it is time for us to consider making such a attention to the fact that in four short years we will be move, and the centenary of the first world war would be commemorating an important milestone in our nation’s a fitting time to introduce such a national holiday or history—100 years since fighting broke out all over day of remembrance. If it could not be an additional Europe that would rapidly plunge the world into its first holiday, perhaps there could be discussions about it world war. replacing another bank holiday, as it might be a more fitting to have a bank holiday on that day. I welcome my hon. Friend’s arrival in Parliament. He succeeds the former leader of the Conservative party So, although Adjournment debates involve closing and a very great parliamentarian, Michael Howard—a the proceedings of the House, my intention was to start man for whom I have huge respect and affection. I a debate among our colleagues and people around the suspect that all Conservatives will echo that sentiment. I country who have a great interest in the historical and hope that my hon. Friend will emulate Michael Howard community significance of the first world war about in many ways in the course of his career, especially after how we in the country and in the House should lead the dark. Perhaps he, too, will become the leader of the country in marking that centenary. party and the Home Secretary, and perhaps he, too, will hold many other of the great offices that Michael Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I congratulate Howard held. my hon. Friend on raising this matter. He is absolutely I was interested to see what my hon. Friend made of right that there is huge interest in it, despite the long his victory on 6 May. Soon after the general election he lapse of time. One reason for that is the availability of wrote an article in The Romney Marsh Times, which I so much more information, including the online record assure him is weekly reading for me. He described a of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission of mixture of gratitude—something we all feel—weight of every serviceman who lost his life in that disastrous war. responsibility for the trust placed in him and a keen Given that we spend so much time commemorating sense of anticipation for the work ahead. He related a the events and triumphs of the second world war, is it memorable encounter on election day when a woman not right that we should remember that twice as many outside the New Romney scout hall told him: were killed in the first world war as in the second, and in a smaller geographical area? So many of the political “We voted for you, now go and change the world for us”. mistakes of the first world war paved the way for the My hon. Friend wrote: second world war. Surely, therefore, we have to give it “Changing the world is the responsibility of all new MPs, to serious attention when the anniversary comes. use our position not only to champion the interests of our community in Parliament, but also to support policies that can Damian Collins: I thank my hon. Friend for his change our society, and ultimately our world.” meaningful contribution to the debate. He is absolutely I am delighted to hear a new MP elucidating such noble right about the enormous significance of the war and principles; they are the principles that should drive all that the far greater loss of life in that war is sometimes of us to enter Parliament, and certainly drove my hon. forgotten. Friend’s predecessor, Michael Howard. In some ways, the burden of memorial falls on new The first world war certainly changed our world, so it generations, which is why this is a particularly important is fitting that we are discussing those historic events and challenge for the House. There are still alive today many plans to mark them so early in the new Parliament. As service veterans from the second world war and many an historian, I shall touch briefly on some of the people who have vivid memories of that war, as was chronology of the calamitous events during the apparently seen at the 70th anniversary of Dunkirk, which was glorious summer of 1914 that were to lead irrevocably marked last month. For the first world war, those to war. memories are not there, so there is a greater challenge for this generation and new generations to continue On 28 June, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, celebrations when those events are so much further heir to the Austro-Hungarian empire, was assassinated away. I want to mark that challenge with a nod to the in Sarajevo by Serbian nationalists. He was on his huge canon of literature about the first world war. Let way to a hospital to visit attendants who had been me adapt slightly Kipling’s words in his lament for his injured by an anarchist bomb—something we see son: often in not always terribly funny sketches—thrown at his car earlier that day in a failed attempt to kill “Then hold your head up all the more, him. On the way to the hospital, the driver took a This tide, wrong turn. When he realised his mistake he began to reverse, but another Serbian nationalist, Gavrilo And every tide; Princip, stepped forward and fired two shots. The Because they were the sons Britain bore, first killed the archduke’s pregnant wife, Sophie, And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!” almost instantly, and the second hit the archduke in 635 First World War Commemoration8 JULY 2010 First World War Commemoration 636 the neck, and he died a short while later. So much other members of my family, as was the case with every trouble after taking a wrong turn and then making a family, served in the first world war. U-turn; it is not a joking matter, but it could be a lesson As we did with the 90th anniversary of the Armistice to us all. in 2008 when our last three serving personnel, Henry Exactly a month later, on 28 July, Austria-Hungary Allingham, Harry Patch and Bill Stone, laid wreaths declared war on Serbia and events moved quickly. On in a poignant ceremony at the Cenotaph, we will 1 August, the French and Germans mobilised and certainly remember in 2014 with great poignancy the Germany declared war against Russia. On 3 August, 100th anniversary. Twelve months after that Germany declared war on France and broke the 1839 commemoration of the 90th anniversary, we remembered treaty of London by invading Belgium on 4 August. As the passing of the entire world war one generation in a a result, later that day the British Cabinet voted almost service in Westminster abbey attended by the Queen—that unanimously to declare war. was last year. Our children, and their children, who The Foreign Secretary, Sir Edward Grey, memorably have grown up without the threat or shadow of world said as he stood at the window of the Foreign Office, war, need to be taught how the freedoms they take for across the road from his house, watching the lamps granted were won, and at such heavy cost. I would say being lit as dusk approached: to my hon. Friend that I think more than anything else this centenary should be one of education—education “The lamps are going out all over Europe: we shall not see in schools, and with everybody taking part, so that them lit again in our time.” nobody forgets. In fact, he and the nation would see the lamps lit again, but the intervening slaughter was unimaginable. We will be discussing with colleagues across Whitehall, particularly in DCMS, how the centenary may be Fatalities in the British imperial forces alone totalled commemorated, and we will work with other interested more than 1 million, with more than 2 million wounded. parties, such as the Imperial War museum, to develop a Overall, it is reckoned that by the time the first world co-ordinated approach to ensure that the centenary is war ended in November 1918 it had caused 37 million given the highest possible profile. My hon. Friend casualties, military and civilian, of whom about 16 million mentioned the meeting today at the Imperial War museum, were fatalities. As my hon. Friends the Members for and I understand it is prepared to lead the national Folkestone and Hythe and for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) commemoration of the centenary of 1914 and has have pointed out, it was not the war to end all wars, but already appointed a programme manager. It will create its scale robbed this country of a generation of young digital resources for education and ensure that all events, men. activities and exhibitions relating to the centenary achieve Each year since, at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the highest possible profile. Forty-five organisations the 11th month, those who served in the great war and attended the conference today, and more are now expected the generations who followed have stood in silent respect to join. for the sacrifice. On the 50th anniversary of the start of There is also a need to recognise the significance of the great war, in 1964, the BBC produced a majestic the first world war globally, because it was, obviously, a documentary series, “The Great War”, which was a world war. The Imperial War museum is establishing a small-screen alternative to tributes in stone and bronze. series of international collaborations with organisations Some of us, including I suspect my hon. Friend the such as the Smithsonian and Les Invalides. We will of Member for New Forest East, watched those programmes. course do likewise with our international partners. The It was a brilliant series, made in black and white, and I UK Government and our partners are well used to suspect that the BBC will sensibly re-release it in four marking such important occasions. Traditionally in Britain, years’ time. we mark the end of a conflict, but we understand the Many of those who served in the first world war were historic significance of this centenary and the additional able to return to northern France and Belgium to pay poignancy and we expect that to be reflected in widespread their respects to their fallen comrades. Alas, as we media and public interest. know, the last active UK combatants in the great war I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone passed away last year so there will be no further trips for and Hythe for the suggestions that he has made. I say to those who fought in the first world war. my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and (Mr Burrowes) that I am a great believer in keeping up Hythe talked about plans to mark the centenary. The war memorials, so that we do remember and do not Government have no specific plans to do so. However, forget. My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest my hon. Friend will understand that I speak as a East made some very sensible points about the second Defence Minister and now, because everybody who and first world wars. served is dead, we view the first world war as a historic, I am quite a believer in bank holidays—frankly, the heritage event, so we shall talk to the Department for more the merrier—but I do not think it would be Culture, Media and Sport and the museums my hon. appropriate to press for an additional bank holiday to Friend mentioned to see what plans they may have. commemorate the first world war, given that the day in It remains, in my opinion, hugely important to 1914 ultimately resulted in millions being sent to their remember the sacrifices that were made in the great war. deaths and millions more injured. We will look at the It affected the whole country—every family, almost other suggestions that my hon. Friend the Member for without exception. Certainly I suspect that hon. Members Folkestone and Hythe made closely, and plans are present will have family members who died in the first emerging to commemorate this important and sombre world war. My mother’s uncle was killed on the Somme, event in a fitting way, although precisely what form it my father’s uncle was killed at Gallipoli, and many will take we cannot yet say. 637 First World War Commemoration8 JULY 2010 First World War Commemoration 638

[Mr Andrew Robathan] their behalf, in the hope that younger generations are spared the horrors that our fathers’ and grandfathers’ I can say this, however, and I say it from the heart. We generations endured. will not forget the duty we have as a nation to commemorate Question put and agreed to. properly all those who fought in the great war, and to reflect on the sacrifice that they were prepared to make. If for no other reason, younger generations and generations 6.24 pm to follow must never forget what their forefathers did on House adjourned. 143WH 8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 144WH

Mr Wright: I appreciate your ruling, Miss Begg. Will Westminster Hall the Minister concentrate on the energy security elements of the coalition programme? How will he reform energy Thursday 8 July 2010 markets to achieve those aims? Charles Hendry: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. We will have to wait with bated breath for the three [MISS ANNE BEGG in the Chair] bullet points to which he was going to refer. I look forward to hearing them in due course. Energy Security Energy security is at the heart of the matter. We must Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting rebuild this country’s energy infrastructure, and a whole be now adjourned.—(Mr Vara.) raft of technologies exist that we want to bring into play. Part of the problem we face is that, considering the 2.30 pm extent to which plant is being decommissioned, more concrete should be being poured and more bricks and The Minister of State, Department of Energy and mortar put in place now. A lot of work has received Climate Change (Charles Hendry): I am grateful to you, consent, but much of it is still on hold pending building. Miss Begg, for calling me to open this important debate Greater urgency is required to secure construction. on a subject fundamental to our country’s future. Energy Turning to the specific technologies, we believe that security is a high priority on the Government’s political nuclear should be part of the mix as long as it can be and economic agenda. Our view is that energy security built without subsidy; we broadly agree with the former and climate change go hand in hand and must be Labour Government in that respect. According to the addressed together. At the moment, we need particularly coalition agreement, if it can be built without subsidy, it to secure new investment in the United Kingdom’s will be part of the mix. We are clear that that means the energy generating capacity in order to compensate for private sector should be responsible for the building, facilities that will soon be decommissioned. running, decommissioning and long-term waste disposal We have inherited a situation in which, although costs of any new nuclear power stations. The Government there were many targets, it was not always clear how must be involved in the effort to remove barriers to those targets would be met. We intend and are determined investment—the work of the Office for Nuclear to secure our energy supplies by increasing diversity Development has been important in that respect—and and being competitive and energy-efficient, but we must ensure that the appropriate safety, security and recognise that we face one of the most significant environmental regulations are in place. We see nuclear energy challenges in Europe. as part of the mix, but realistically, even if everything Over the next 10 to 15 years, we must secure about goes according to the most optimistic plans, it will be £200 billion in new investment in our energy infrastructure, 2017 or 2018 before new plant can be constructed. a figure estimated by Ernst and Young and supported Coal has an important part to play as well. We have by Ofgem and others. By 2018, 16 power stations generating an abundance of coal; this country has hundreds of more than 18 GW of capacity will close, representing years’ supply of coal left. We should be leading the about one quarter of British electricity. We will lose a world in coal using carbon capture. We are determined third of our coal plant by 2016 as a result of the large to move from our current position—we are not as far combustion plant directive, and much of the rest as a ahead as we should be—and take that global opportunity. result of the industrial emissions directive. Our remaining In addition to our coal reserves, we need to rebuild our oil capacity will be extracted at the same time, and most coal-fired power stations. We have unique sequestration of our nuclear programme, apart from Sizewell B, is due facilities at sea where CO2 can be stored, and people to close by the early 2020s. Global oil demand could with the right skills to carry out that work are working rise by a quarter in the next 20 years, and global gas in extremely hazardous conditions in the North sea. We demand could increase by 40% by 2030. Some £5 trillion are absolutely committed to taking work forward in in investment is needed to meet those future demands. that area. In addition to that challenge, we face climate change. Today we launched a market sounding exercise to We must build a different kind of economy that cuts our encourage the industry to present schemes for consideration carbon emissions in order to tackle climate change, and for subsequent projects. One pilot project is under that makes our energy secure in a way that can endure discussion, and three others might be considered. We volatility. want industry to help us frame the competition in the way that suits it best in order to bring technologies Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): The Minister together, share skills and understanding and make it said that the Government have made the green economy happen. and energy security priorities, which I welcome. I suspect, We also announced today that we are setting up a though, that they tend to focus more on climate change carbon capture and storage development forum to focus and the green economy than on energy security. May I specifically on removing the obstacles to investment in press him on the remarks made in the coalition programme CCS. It will consider the nuts and bolts, just as the about energy security, particularly the three bullet points? nuclear development forum does. We will also make headway on a road map so that people can hold us to Miss Anne Begg (in the Chair): Order. I know that the account on our ambition. Ambition is important, but hon. Gentleman simply wanted to make an intervention, without a road map, targets have little benefit or meaning. but that sounds more like a speech. Perhaps he can We want renewables to be part of the mix too. That is make a brief point now, and then catch my eye later and one of the most uncomfortable issues for us in the make his other points in a speech. United Kingdom. Of the 27 members of the European 145WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 146WH

[Charles Hendry] that happen. However, rather worryingly, some of the key players are looking elsewhere for the best financial Union, we are second worst regarding the extent to support mechanisms—for example, Portugal or the United which renewables contribute to our electricity generation. States. We have to make it absolutely clear to the key Yet we have resources. We have some of the strongest players that we are determined to drive this forward in winds in Europe, the highest tidal flows and some of the the United Kingdom. strongest potential for wave technology. We have let the In addition to putting a new generating capacity in rest of Europe move ahead of us in deployment, skills place, we face the challenge of rebuilding the grid and, critically, the supply chain. We must ensure that we infrastructure—not just the existing grid, which is rather begin to take a lead on renewables. We will need more old, but connecting up the new facilities. Last year, the onshore and offshore wind power, a massive increase in Electricity Networks Strategy Group published its report, energy from waste and faster development of marine setting out the onshore transmission investments needed energy such as wave and tidal. We wish to drive all those to meet the challenges in our generating mix between technologies further forward. now and 2020. That group estimates that about £4.7 billion Undoubtedly, the renewables obligation has encouraged of new investment in the grid is required over the next significant investment in onshore wind, but that has not decade. We will shortly publish our decisions on the been without problems in the communities where it best systems for driving forward that absolutely fundamental operates. In order to drive further development, we investment. want a different relationship, considering what aspects We have nuclear, clean coal and renewables in the mix of council tax and business rates can be kept local to but, realistically, they will not produce huge amounts of communities and how communities that host facilities electrical energy before the latter part of this decade. of wider regional or national significance can share in We are facing a crisis and a challenge here and now. In the benefits that they bring. That way, we hope to give the shorter term, we recognise that there will be increased wind farms greater public legitimacy than has sometimes reliance on gas. Although imports are not themselves a been the case when investment has been sought in such problem, our growing dependence on them means that important systems. we need to increase the security of our gas supplies. We are now the world leaders in offshore wind power, The Government will set out measures to improve with 14 operational offshore wind farms generating our gas security, as promised in the coalition document. more than 1 GW of electricity, and a further 1.5 GW We need more gas storage capacity, more gas import worth of construction under way. However, we also capacity and greater assurances that our market will need to consider what more can be done to drive work deliver gas when it is needed. Our gas market arrangements further forward. The round 3 applications are substantial, must therefore have a sharper focus on increased flexibility with billions of pounds of potential investment needed. and resilience. We will work internationally to try to We know that we have a shortage of skills, ships, cranes address some of those issues and to deal with the and technology. Again, therefore, we must focus on how physical constraints in the system. The disputes between to provide solutions if companies headquartered overseas Russia and Ukraine in the past, and between Russia seek to invest in Britain. That is one of the challenges and Belarus more recently, show that new routes to we face. In the current market, we are seeking to attract market for gas must be found. Additional pipeline investment not just from British companies, which might infrastructures to the north and south of Europe would be predisposed to invest here, but from companies remove some of those blockages but, again, they will around the world. That will be a key objective for this take some time to put in place. new Administration. Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) Although wind and biomass, as large technologies, (Lab): I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but, in will be central to meeting our 2020 targets, we need to Britain, dependence on Russian gas is nothing like as see the targets in perspective. Too often, there is a large as it is in any other European country. In fact, is it tendency to see them as a finishing post—a line over not right that we have been getting gas from many other which we will fall, struggling and gasping, having got European countries over the past few years? there by 2020. In reality, we should see them as a staging post and as part of the process towards even more Charles Hendry: The hon. Lady is absolutely right in ambitious and challenging objectives further down the her assessment. We get virtually no gas—1% or 2%—from line. If we start to see them in that way, it gives us the Russia. However, during the Russia-Ukraine dispute ability to drive forward investment in new technologies, last year, when there was a huge problem in central such as the marine and tidal sectors. On Friday, I had a Europe, gas was being pumped out of the United meeting in Bristol with some of the key players involved Kingdom just as we were coming out of our coldest with that technology, who are keen to invest and move winter for 18 years, which put our gas storage supplies Britain forward. However, we do not yet have the structures under pressure. We must recognise that we live in an in place to make that happen. interdependent world in terms of energy security and We are considering how we can make marine energy we have to put measures in place to ensure that we are parks work. A system could be put in place whereby protected against those sorts of international issues, there is not just a grid connection point but, critically, which pose unpredictable, international challenges to onshore facilities and people with the relevant engineering, the resilience of our system. In three of the past four academic and business skills. We hope to attract people winters, we have come under pressure. Fortunately, we from around the world to invest in Britain to develop have been on the right side of such problems in the end, those marine and tidal technologies, so that Britain will but we must recognise that it will not necessarily be a be the natural place for them to be deployed. We UK challenge that will put us under pressure; there undoubtedly have the natural resources here to make could be pressures from many hundreds of miles always. 147WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 148WH

Mr Iain Wright: Will the Minister tell hon. Members Charles Hendry: The threat to the resilience of our how many days of gas capacity we have? I heard that we system was exactly as we set it out. In three of the past have eight days at the moment, which does not seem a four winters, issues that could not have been predicted lot. In the middle of summer, I can understand how put us under pressure. In the winter just passed, the that figure is workable, but it would cause a real problem Langeled pipeline froze up, which meant it was not in the height of a very cold, severe winter. What steps is working at anything like full capacity. The year before, the Minister taking to ensure that we increase gas the Russia-Ukraine dispute took place and, a couple of storage capacity? years before that, there was a fire in our largest storage facility—the Rough storage facility. All those factors Charles Hendry: I think the hon. Gentleman has been brought pressures that could not have been anticipated. reading my speeches from before the election. In two There is a significant difference between us and the months, we have not completely transformed the availability previous Administration regarding the role of gas. We of gas security and storage in this country. However, we expect gas to be of growing importance in the short to recognise that we have at best about 16 days capacity, medium term, whereas the previous Government believed which compares with about 100 days in Germany and a it would be declining. If one considers where the investment bit more than that in France. We need to secure more is going, 60% of the new generating capacity—12 out of capacity, but we also need to recognise the totality of 20 GW of consented plant—will be gas. That means we the picture. The Langeled pipeline from Norway is one will move much more rapidly to a system of significant of our most important channels, and there are liquefied dependence on imports. We are not talking about the natural gas facilities in the Thames and in south Wales. figure of well under half that the previous Government Those are areas where we can bring gas into the United mentioned, but potentially 70% or 80% by 2020. Kingdom. That is part of the overall gas security picture. It is our responsibility to face that challenge and We need more gas storage, but we also need to be ensure that we put the measures in place that will absolutely clear—this is what the coalition agreement enhance security of supply. Gas storage and long-term states—that the people who are supplying gas are certain contracts are part of that mix; additional sources of that they have access to adequate supplies. That could supply—perhaps new LNG facilities—are another. We relate to storage, to long-term contracts through pipelines need to be certain that people who depend on gas as or to more interruptible contracts. part of the generating mix or who depend on supplying it to domestic customers have secured the way in which Emily Thornberry: I have heard many of the hon. they will be obtain the fuel as and when they need it. Gentleman’s speeches about the importance of increasing our gas supply. Given the Conservative preoccupation The comments of the hon. Member for Southampton, with the number of days of gas supply we have in Test (Dr Whitehead) bring me to another crucial point. storage, perhaps he can tell us, now he is in government, In the foreseeable years ahead, there will still be a how many days supply he would be comfortable with us significant contribution from the North sea to our having in the winter. energy security. We believe that it is clearly in the nation’s interest that we develop those resources to get the best from them that we possible can, as that will Charles Hendry: We have always said that gas storage enhance our energy security. We should be keen to is part of the mix. If we have long-term contracts, under develop those resources further. which we know gas is not being bought on the stock market, and it cannot simply be delivered and put I find the continued and significant international through the pipeline, gas storage is part of enhancing interest in investing in the North sea encouraging. The energy security. We are keen for more of those facilities 26th offshore oil round, which is now in progress, has to be brought to fruition. There have been significant produced applications for 356 blocks, the largest number blockages caused by past planning constraints and the of applications since the first round in 1964. We will changes the previous Government made. We are enhancing continue to encourage industry to invest in developing arrangements, which will help to address some of those those facilities in the North sea while, at the same time, issues. There are continuing problems with the rate at maintaining high standards of management and minimising which cushion gas—the gas that goes into the bottom environmental impacts. We recognise that those companies of the storage facilities and is never actually taken are international and have a choice in where they go. If out—is taxed. There are non-financial challenges as we do not create a stable and attractive regime, they will well. Gas storage is part of the picture, but there is a undoubtedly go elsewhere. wider picture, too. Clearly, the Deepwater Horizon tragedy in the United States has been in our minds, and we must consider the Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): I implications for the UK as we continue to develop in believe that the figures for UK gas storage are about 4% the North sea, particularly in the deeper waters west of of average annual consumption, compared with 21% in Shetland. We must continue to increase our vigilance. Germany and 24% in France. However, the UK is still a We have the most robust regime in the world for very substantial producer of gas—there is effectively environmental protection and safety protection for the gas storage waiting to be tapped. Furthermore, Britain rigs involved in drilling operations in the North sea. All now has two liquefied natural gas terminals installed installations must have an approved plan to deal with and working. Taking those factors into account, although any spills and we have doubled the number of inspections it is certainly necessary to increase gas storage, does the carried out by the Department and increased by half Minister accept that the picture is not remotely as was the number of inspectors. We believe that we have set out before and immediately after the election as far responded effectively to the challenges. Unlike the United as long-term threats to gas storage and gas storage itself States, we have always had a clear division between the are concerned? licensing operations, which are carries out by the 149WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 150WH

[Charles Hendry] I will now address the points made by the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) on the fundamental Department of Energy and Climate Change, and the market reform measures. We recognise that the measures health and safety regime, which is the responsibility of that we are trying to take to encourage investment will the Health and Safety Executive. That separation of not be sufficient on their own; other elements of market responsibilities has been important in securing the safety reform will be necessary to help drive forward new and environmental standards that operate in the North investment in the sector. As part of that process, we sea. should have a meaningful carbon price so that people know what the price will be for every tonne of carbon We will, of course, learn from any further lessons that emitted. That will be set on a clear trajectory and will be emerge from the investigations on the tragedy in the a clear indicator for those investing in low carbon gulf of Mexico, three of which are now underway. I technologies. It will benefit all low-carbon technologies. offer Members an absolute assurance that we will take no risks where environmental safety is concerned. Partly We are also exploring how capacity payments would in response to that disaster, and with the industry, the work, because we recognise that, as we move into an era new Oil Spill Prevention and Response Advisory Group of inevitably more fluctuating generation supplies, both has been set up to investigate whether any additional from onshore and offshore wind power, there is a need measures should be taken. for back-up capacity that can work part of the time, but not 24/7. We must find the right way of setting in place I have so far focused my remarks on the need to a capacity market to encourage people to invest in that generate new capacity and secure supplies, but there are technology and find new ways of taking demand out of several other matters that it is right to refer to in the the system by smoothing the peaks and troughs of debate, and the first is energy efficiency—we should demand. We need to look at both increasing supply and never talk about energy security without talking about managing demand more effectively. We believe that energy efficiency. Energy efficiency is the low-hanging those electricity market reform measures can help to fruit; the area in which we can make the most significant create a much more robust system in the UK, which will savings. We must recognise that the money that does not help to secure investment. need to be spent on wasted energy is one of the most This debate is important because it gives us an efficient investments we can make. The UK probably opportunity to discuss many of the issues at the heart of has the least energy-efficient homes in Europe, which is our energy security. We need an unparalleled amount of a serious concern. That is an accident of geography; new investment in capacity if we are to achieve the were we further north, we would have had to develop energy security that we believe is essential. About much greater energy efficiency, as Scandinavian countries £200 billion of new investment has to be secured. We have done, and were we further south, that would not believe that clean coal with carbon capture will be part have been so necessary in the winters. of that mix, as will nuclear energy, so long as it is Therefore, we have a massive amount of catching up without subsidy. The full range of renewables will also to do, which is why we will be legislating this Session by be part of the mix, and there will be an enhanced role introducing an energy bill as part of the green deal, for gas, but it must be accompanied by extra measures enabling energy efficiency measures to be rolled out to enhance our gas security. Lip service has been paid to across the nation’s housing stock. We discussed how those matters for far too long, so we are determined to those measures might work at length while the Energy act to put in place the necessary energy security. It is Act 2010 was going through Parliament. The critical only by having energy security that we can genuinely point is that the savings should be greater than the costs. move towards a low-carbon society and keep prices The savings would start to be made immediately after affordable for consumers. the measures are put in place, and the costs will be claimed back over a period of 20 to 25 years through a 2.58 pm small increase in the bills for the people whose properties Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) have been improved. We think that that will start to (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, bring our stock—houses, businesses and public Miss Begg. To keep the lights on, the country needs buildings—up to the necessary standard. We should be both adequate levels of storage and security of supply, in no doubt that that is a national emergency. We have and that cannot be left to the vagaries of the market. lagged too far behind for too long and there is now a The new Government have to give a strong and clear real determination to put it right. lead. Our concern is that, although they begin from a A related point concerns the roll-out of smart meters, good place, they are showing early signs of not which are crucial to enabling people to choose the tariff understanding the enormity of the task and not necessarily that is the most reasonable for them. They are crucial to being up to it. encouraging people to go down the route of micro- In the last few months of the Labour Government, generation and start generating electricity in their homes the Conservatives stepped up their criticism of what the and properties. They are also crucial in dealing with fuel Government had been doing to ensure security of supply— poverty. In Northern Ireland, for example, people of the Minister will know this because he was there—including, prepayment meters pay less than the normal tariff. rather bizarrely, an Opposition day motion on 13 January, Smart meters have many benefits, so we have put in just one week after the coldest winter for 30 years. That place the work to bring forward their roll-out by several motion called on the Government to take immediate years. We were always convinced that 2020 was not action to ensure diversity in electricity generating capacity ambitious enough and are determined to achieve the and adequate levels of natural gas storage. That, of overwhelming majority of the roll-out long before course, was exactly what we had done. Labour had that date. ensured diversity in electricity generating capacity. In 151WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 152WH the past decade the UK has opened up new sources of would stay on. In fact, we could withstand a combination gas in Norway, the Netherlands, Algeria, Australia, of any two of those losses for a year. When the Qatar, Egypt and Trinidad and Tobago. Our country’s Conservatives were in opposition their criticism of our gas supplies are not drawn from the likeliest of sources, lack of resilience simply did not meet the facts. For as has been said. Our gas does not come from Russia example, we could lose gas supplied by Russia through and the middle east to the same extent that it does for Ukraine and also lose the Bacton terminal, but still most countries. We certainly do not need gas from those avoid blackouts in a cold winter. regions to fulfil two thirds of our needs, as does the rest During the 2009-10 winter, when cold weather placed of the world. unprecedented demand on supplies and four of our During last year’s winter, when demands on gas Norwegian fields stopped supplying gas, the lights supplies were unprecedented, the lights stayed on and nevertheless stayed on and homes remained warm. The homes were kept warm because we had made rapid right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), progress, with almost a third of all supplies coming the Minister’s previous boss, made great play of the fact from sources that did not exist five years ago: the that the UK had just eight days’ gas storage remaining. Langeland pipeline from Norway, to which the Minister The Minister might remember the Conservatives being has already referred; the BBL pipeline from the Netherlands; somewhat alarmist about that. That figure ignored the and the South Hook and Dragon terminals at Milford amount of gas being imported and the fact that half of Haven, which receive liquefied natural gas from Qatar UK demand is met by the North sea production. At the and were opened by my right hon. Friend the Member time, the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband). So, things (Simon Hughes), who is now a member of a party had changed, and diversification was happening. We supporting the coalition, sought an apology from the got through this very cold winter—the lights did not right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells and called his go out. claims The Tories’ second charge was that we did not have “unnecessary, alarmist, inaccurate and misleading”.—[Official an adequate level of natural gas storage, and that is why Report, 13 January 2010; Vol. 503, c. 756.] I asked questions of the Minister earlier. While the That could not have been better put. Tories were in opposition they made a great deal of National Grid stated that the eight days of gas storage noise about the inadequate levels of gas storage, but remaining was a meaningless number, and now that the perhaps now they are in government there has been a Conservative party is in power it seems to have changed change of heart. As has already been said, the UK has its tune. Lord Marland, the Under-Secretary of State, far more of its own gas resources than other countries, had talked about the eight days’ supply but said in a and as my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, debate in the House of Lords on 29 June: Test (Dr Whitehead) has pointed out—and as we all know—we have a great deal of gas storage available to “we feel confident that we can sustain the supply required.”—[Official us because, luckily, we have gas in the North sea. Report, House of Lords, 29 June 2010; Vol. 719, c. 1659.] Parallels made with countries such as Germany are Does the Minister agree with Lord Marland? If he does, simply wrong, misleading comparisons. I am glad to see will he take this opportunity to apologise on behalf of that, now the Minister is in government, he will not be the Conservative party for being unnecessarily alarmist, doing that again. given all the circumstances? The figures for natural gas supply imported by European As the Minister said, it is of course not just a matter countries are: France 96.5%, Germany 80%, Italy 87%, of what we will do in the short term; we also need a Spain 99% and the Czech Republic 93.7%. The figure long-term policy. In those circumstances, therefore, the for the UK is only 20.3%. Our level of dependence on importance of renewables cannot be overstated. We natural gas imports is far lower than that of comparable have a very challenging target for the amount of energy countries. Of the 27 EU countries, we are the second demand that we want to fulfil through renewables, least import-dependent. In National Grid’s most recent and Labour made a good start. Renewable energy has review of gas supply, “Transporting Britain’s Energy”, doubled in the past five years and, as the Minister has which the Minister might have been able to read, it been kind enough to point out, we introduced the stated that potential supply from UK power stations is renewables obligation in 2002, which has enabled a 28% above demand, and it forecasted that that excess huge expansion of onshore wind and made us one of would continue through to 2016 and beyond. Labour the biggest producers of offshore wind in the world. I expanded our gas import capacity by 500% during the welcome the Secretary of State’s decision to confirm the past decade. During last year’s winter, Steve Holliday, £5 million grant offered by the previous Government to chief executive of National Grid, claimed: Siemens Wind Power. However, without a robust planning system we will not get enough wind turbines here: “we’ve seen the benefits of the investment of the last five years where the UK can now import 30 per cent. of its gas internationally “One of the reasons Britain’s green industrial revolution is yet that it couldn’t five years ago”. to take off is the lack of domestic demand for wind turbines, and a key reason for that has been the attitude of many Conservative DECC’s last assessment under Labour of gas supply councils”. resilience showed that we could withstand a large number of problems. We could withstand the loss of the UK’s The Minister might recognise that as a quote from John largest gas storage facility, including in a severe winter, Sauven of Greenpeace, from The Guardian on 27 July and the lights would stay on. We could withstand the 2009. loss of the UK’s largest gas import terminal in a severe How, therefore, will the Government meet increased winter, and the lights would stay on. We could withstand renewables targets, while across the country Conservative the loss of the UK’s largest source of imports for a MPs and councillors campaign to block onshore wind whole year, including in a severe winter, and the lights farms? Some of the sketchy outline the Minister gave us 153WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 154WH

[Emily Thornberry] Charles Hendry: There is one position, which is that nuclear will be part of the mix if it can be built without on how he will encourage onshore wind was interesting, subsidy, and that is it—one position, complete clarity. but we have yet to see any detail, and that is what will be important. We do not quite understand how it is that Emily Thornberry: That sounds simple and local communities will get some benefit from onshore understandable, but we then need to look at how these wind projects being built near them. Will it simply be things are implemented. For example, is the cancelled onshore wind? What if, for example, gas storage capacity loan to Sheffield Forgemasters the first casualty of the is built near a village? Would it get some sort of benefit uncertainty over Government policy on nuclear? There from that? Who will pay for it? Will it be paid for out of are a number of questions relating to that. Did the Lib the public or the private purse, and how much money Dems’ prejudice against nuclear power have a role in the are we talking about? It is a very interesting idea in decision to cancel the loan? Was the decision made theory, but we need to understand what it means in because of the coalition’s policy of having no public practice. While it remains sketchy it gives no certainty subsidy for nuclear? Did that impact on Sheffield to the industry, and the industry needs certainty. The Forgemasters or not? Was it right for the Government public also need certainty, and we need to get a move on to give Nissan a grant to make electric cars—a proposal with renewables. I agree with the Minister that we need that we support—but not to provide a commercial loan more onshore, but we cannot go on as we are at the to help a British company be at the centre of an moment. indigenous nuclear supply chain? How do these things The feed-in tariffs encouraged small-scale renewables, fit in? and I am glad that the Government will promote that What we see are the Government’s confusion and the policy. A revolution is under way in electricity production, refusal to grant a commercial loan to a company worth but we need one for heat. I therefore again ask the £40 million. The loan would need to be £80 million, and Minister if he will guarantee the introduction of the it would be difficult to get that money from a bank. The renewable heat incentive. We have yet to hear clear refusal to grant the loan means that Sheffield Forgemasters proposals from the Government, and the industry is is unable to build the sort of kit we need to build holding its breath while waiting for an understanding of nuclear power stations in Britain. We are not necessarily where we are going. talking about a subsidy from the public purse. We need I have to say that many of the Government’s proposals, a Government who are prepared to look to the future such as the green investment bank and smart meters, and to decide that the triumvirate includes nuclear, that look familiar, as does their dependence on what I think we are serious about these issues and that we will give my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North such assistance as is necessary. The current situation is called the “triumvirate” of nuclear carbon capture and very unfortunate, and we have a number of questions as storage for coal and renewables. We await the a result. implementation of those proposals with care, however. That is one casualty, but there is another. Will the The Minister has for a long time been a supporter of Minister confirm whether there will be cuts to the nuclear power, but the Government are unable to give Nuclear Decommissioning Authority? If there are to be clear leadership on the issue because they do not have a cuts, when will they be and what will they be? More position—they have a large number of positions. They importantly, will they have an impact on the future of are notionally in favour in nuclear power, but the Lib Britain’s nuclear power industry? The issue of the public Dem representative will speak against it, the Lib Dem purse paying for cleaning up after nuclear has always party will refuse to vote on it, and I have yet to get my been part of the arguments about whether nuclear head around what the Secretary of State’s position is. power is being subsidised, so what will happen? Are we Frankly, the industry needs to know and to have clear talking about a subsidy or not? Where does that fit with leadership. the coalition agreement on nuclear power? We need to know, and the industry definitely needs to know. Publicly, Charles Hendry: The heads of all the nuclear companies the industry might not be critical, but the Opposition have said that they are entirely comfortable with our are being critical because a confused picture is being position and understand it precisely. Will the hon. Lady put out. not accept their assurance that our position is rational, The expansion of Sheffield Forgemasters represented sensible and realistic, rather than creating scares that do an opportunity for Britain to make key components for not exist? the nuclear industry, which will now have to be sourced from places such as Japan and Taiwan. That is very Emily Thornberry: As Christine Keeler said, “They unfortunate for green jobs and the economy. The would say that, wouldn’t they?” The point is that the Government have tried to defend their position by nuclear industry needs to know what the Government suggesting that Sheffield Forgemasters should obtain are doing. The industry will not pick a fight with the funds from the financial markets. Once again, we see Government at such a crucial stage, but it needs to actions motivated by free market ideas that are completely know where they are going. The Government have a misplaced. number of positions, and it is not easy for the industry Before the Conservatives made their deal with the in those circumstances. Of course, the industry will not Lib Dems, they were highly exercised by the gap between come out publicly and criticise the Government—that the end of the life of the current fleet of nuclear power is our job in opposition. However, we are confident that stations and the earliest date by which we might get it does not help the nuclear industry for the Government some new nuclear power stations. Why are the Conservatives to hold four positions at the same time on the future of now so relaxed about that? There seems to have been a nuclear power. change. The Government should be taking up the long-term 155WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 156WH challenge of decarbonising the economy and the job There is therefore great concern about the fact that market, rather than just embracing short-termism, but politics is being put back into planning, and that planning some of the decisions that have been made are simply will be held up at a time when we need to show direction short-termist. and leadership. The Government share our view that the nuclear This is a crucial time, when we need to be able to industry should not receive a direct subsidy from the move to a low-carbon economy. We need a Government public purse, but the industry needs clarity and reassurances, who are confident and who do the right thing. As I said not obstacles. In the words of Richard Nourse, managing at the outset, the current Government have the advantage partner of renewable energy fund novusmodus, of coming from a good place, because the Labour Government laid the ground well. However, it is of “Nuclear is a long journey and developers need confidence to great concern that Ministers are now floundering around, keep travelling.” particularly on planning and nuclear. Perhaps the biggest Can the Minister provide that confidence? What percentage concern, however, is the statement in the coalition agreement of our electricity does he expect nuclear to contribute in that the parties concerned the next 10 years? Without that confidence, we will “share a conviction that the days of big government are over”. surely see delays, which will increase our dependence In the Minister’s Department, big government and on gas. leadership are necessary. Without them, we will not The Labour Government made a huge commitment move to the low-carbon economy that we need. to investment in carbon capture and storage technology for four coal-fired power stations. Through that technology, 3.17 pm we intended drastically to decarbonise our energy supply. Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): The Can the Minister perhaps give us a little more detail on debate is about energy security.As the Minister emphasised, whether he intends to go ahead with the four coal the debate on what we do with energy policy over not demonstration projects? Can he give me some information only the next five years but the next 30 or 40 years is on the Government’s thinking about the locations of essential. In that context, I am rather sad that such a those projects and the bidders? Will he confirm that the small but select gathering is here to debate the issue. coalition plan is that CCS will be deployed more widely Energy security should be at the heart of all the decisions in 2020, and that any new coal plant constructed after that we make on energy policy in the narrowest sense. that will be fully fitted with CCS? One hears rumours However, in the wider sense, it should also be at the that the Government are thinking again about whether heart of how we plan our resource use, the energy there will be four coal-fired CCS plants or whether one efficiency mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member will be gas. Is there any truth in those rumours? Before for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) the election, the Minister was much exercised by emissions and the deployment of our transport resources. All performance standards for CCS. Will he tell us when or those matters relate one way or another to the question whether he is introducing proposals for such standards? of how secure our energy supplies will be and how we In every debate and every piece of thinking on security will deploy our resources to ensure that the lights go on, of supply, we must not overlook the role of energy transport moves, industry is secure, the country remains efficiency, as the Minister said. I have 14 questions economically prosperous and we remain secure in our outstanding from our previous debate on energy efficiency, homes. Energy security is as central as that to our way and I certainly hope we will get an answer to them soon; of life in the future. indeed, we might be tabling written questions to get As far as energy security is concerned, we live in a answers to some of them. More importantly, however, very uncertain world. We have challenging and serious there will need to be some huge building projects, commitments to meet to ensure our energy security in involving gas storage facilities, onshore wind or nuclear the context of the rapid decarbonisation of our economy. plant, if we are to move to a low-carbon economy. We We need to make sure that our supplies and our energy will be relying on the markets to do the heavy lifting, production are secure in the context of moving from a but at the very same moment, coalition policies have high-carbon to a low-carbon economy in a short time. caused great uncertainty about planning. In talking about the path from here to 2050, we should Hon. Members should not just take my word for that. reflect that in the past 40 to 50 years we have in any On 2 July, the director of policy at the British Chambers event rapidly changed the mix of our energy economy. of Commerce said that the coalition’s abolition of the We have moved from dependence of about 90% on coal Infrastructure Planning Commission for energy to a figure of about 12% to 15% in 40 years or so. I anticipate that there will be similar rapid change “puts politics back into the planning system at a time when an in the next 40 years. The question is whether that overwhelming majority of businesses say that they want key change can be accomplished in accordance with the infrastructure schemes decided by experts, not politicians”. energy security considerations that I have set out. There is great concern about that, and it does not come As to some of the assumptions that continue to be just from the Opposition and the British Chambers of made in some quarters about how energy supplies in Commerce. Concern is also voiced on page 53 of the this country will go, I fear that the answer may be a second progress report to Parliament from the Committee distinct question mark. For example, to take as a starting on Climate Change, which says that key actions for the point our continued dependence on oil, world oil resources future include are presently set at about 42 years. That is on the basis “Ensuring that the proposed replacement of the Infrastructure not of all the oil reserves in the world, but of all those Planning Commission does not prevent projects—renewables, or that it will be reasonably possible to exploit, and that low-carbon infrastructure more generally—progressing in a timely there is a reasonable likelihood of our knowing about in manner through the planning process.” the not-too-distant future. 157WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 158WH

[Dr Alan Whitehead] My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury has already dismissed some of the scares and There is at the same time a dash to secure oil supplies. myths about gas. It is true that the short-term alarms Recently China has been rapidly attempting to exploit about energy security that have recently been raised in and secure oil reserves in Africa, and other world economies relation to gas are largely unfounded, for the reasons we are pursuing the same tactics. Therefore, the idea that have heard today. However, there is another reason, there will be a ready supply of oil at a reasonable which has not sunk widely into our consciousness but is price—a price that can sustain our economy—while our nevertheless important. Part of our gas energy security North sea oil reserves are reducing is at the least an has been derived not only through interconnectors—which, interesting one. I am not a peak oil alarmist but the very as has been observed, can work both ways, and did interesting recent report by my right hon. Friend the during our cold winter, with movement out of the UK Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) on energy as well as into it—but by ensuring, pretty much as a security in a changing world went into the question of deliberate act of policy by the previous Government, peak oil and the point at which, although reserves will that there was sufficient liquid natural gas landing exist for a longer period, production relative to demand capacity. There was a substantial increase in that capacity. will be decreasing. It is suggested that that will happen Of course, liquid natural gas is a world-traded commodity from about 2030. and one might ask how secure it is likely to be. One reason why it is likely to be far more secure in the Emily Thornberry: Does my hon. Friend agree that not-too-distant future is the rise of shale gas, particularly although our oil production from the North sea will in the United States. Gas is extracted from shale beds in decline at a rate of between 6% and 10%, it will nevertheless a way that was not technically possible a few years ago. continue to play a vital role in our energy mix in the Its exploitation in the past few years has, among other next 10 to 20 years? things, added about 25% to estimates of United States gas reserves. Dr Whitehead: Indeed, it will continue to play that I might add that gas is not a particularly benign fuel role, and the fact that we have indigenous sources of oil, for the environment. It is not as intense, in relation to CO emissions, as coal, but it is very intense nevertheless, as it were, will be something of a proof against increasing 2 vicissitudes in the rest of the world. Nevertheless, that and was the subject of a recent letter from the Committee continued oil production is not divorced from peak oil on Climate Change recommending that future gas-fired considerations—it is an essential part of them. The power stations, as well as existing and future coal-fired likelihood, therefore, that by 2050 oil will, because of its plants, should be CCS-adapted. We should not for a scarcity, have to be used primarily for non-vehicular moment believe that gas is the alternative or the answer purposes such as making plastics and other chemical to the end of the oil economy or the diminution of the necessities, should be taken into consideration in our coal economy. Nevertheless, shale gas in the US and long-term thoughts on energy security. elsewhere has transformed the picture in recent years of likely gas reserves. Indeed, the liquid gas receipt terminals The likely scenario in the next few years, should that in the United States built for the same reason as those analysis be even remotely correct, is that the world will that were built in the UK are, in effect, standing idle continue, among other things, to attempt to defend its because of the change in the gas economy that has oil interests by covert or overt military means. Indeed, a resulted from the emergence of shale gas. little while ago Dan Plesch of the Foreign Policy Centre estimated in a paper that the cost, indirectly or directly, Incidentally, shale gas poses an additional problem, of defending oil interests from a military point of view as it is no more environmentally friendly than any other came to about $150 billion a year. If we consider the form of gas—it is, in essence, the same stuff—and the areas of the world—mainly in the middle east—that technology of fracturing rocks to extract it results in have been defended in that way, and the likely reserves substantial emissions of methane into the atmosphere. in those countries, that comes to about $20 per recoverable Indeed, the chemicals that are used in its extraction are barrel. That is an interesting reflection on what is likely particularly climate unfriendly, so it is not a panacea. I to be the increasing additional cost of oil in the next few merely note that as an addition to the debate on where years. we are on gas security. In the context of climate change and our ambition to All things considered, even with the increase in reserves reach the targets we have set, it is absolutely right that in particular countries, it is likely that gas has perhaps a energy efficiency will play a substantial role. Indeed, if 60 to 70-year exploitation against production life ahead EU energy efficiency targets of even 20% are met by of it. For two of the key elements of our energy economy, 2020, that will result in something like a 13% reduction we are living on borrowed time, and we need fundamentally in electricity use in the EU. That underlines the key role to recognise and understand the consequences for our of energy efficiency. I am completely with the Minister own energy security that the post-peak world oil economy as to the key role it must have in our energy security— and, to a lesser extent, gas economy will introduce—this another example of protection of the home front in country will either have to scramble for those resources energy matters. However, the changes in our energy or go in a different direction—and how those scenarios economy that will result from a far lower dependence will play out over the next 40 years. on oil in the long term will almost certainly mean a I have not mentioned coal. This country has some much higher dependence on electricity for, among other 200 years of coal reserves, and there is a similar level of things, transport, particularly with the rise of electric likely reserves against production around the world. vehicles. At least part of the energy efficiency gain will Indeed, in looking at how our future energy economy be offset by increased demand for electricity as electric might best be fashioned, it seems inconceivable that transport becomes increasingly the norm. we would ignore the role of coal—with, I trust, carbon 159WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 160WH capture and storage firmly attached to it, because of such as Kyrgyzstan, but they raise the same questions our carbon abatement commitments. Nevertheless, using for energy security in an uncertain world set against coal as a substantial part of our base-load energy supplies of oil and gas. economy over the next few years is not just a good idea Ironically, we could increase our supply of uranium for balance in the energy economy but an important by sequestering supplies that are kept for military purposes part of our energy security considerations. and translating them to domestic nuclear purposes. If The starting point for energy security probably has to we did so in this country, we could double the life of our be a common-sense view. Politicians always feel that uranium supplies without taking uranium from elsewhere, people should be wary of common-sense views—on which raises the interesting question of developing a occasion, that means they come up with views that are domestic nuclear power programme to thwart a military precisely the opposite—but, in the case of our energy nuclear programme, but perhaps that is a debate for security over the next 40 years, a common-sense starting another day. point ought to be that if we should produce as much of I asked whether the UK could be energy self-sufficient the energy required in this country from sources that we in future. The answer is yes, but the best energy security control, and that we do not set too much store by in this changing world will probably come from forms sources that we do not control. of collective energy security which, at the very least in Europe, ought to be at the forefront of our minds. We That is a common-sense absolute which, of course, is have heard some bad stories about connectors, but the mediated by a great many factors, not least the more connectors this country has with Europe, the interconnection and balancing of supplies, and the role better off we will be not just in terms of our own energy of the European Union in how supplies work, but in a security but in terms of Europe’s as well, for reasons world with all the dangers, concerns and scarcities that I that I shall come to in a moment. have mentioned, a common-sense starting point ought We should also consider new connections. The to tackle the issue of how deploy our energy resources programme ought to be imaginative in terms of the over the next 40 years. The question that then arises is connections within Europe and making the most of whether the UK can be energy self-sufficient in the way Europe’s energy supply resources. We should, among that it has been in the past. If that common-sense other things, go further forward from having point-to-point principle were applied to our future energy security, we connections for future wind farms in the North sea, for would be talking about an energy economy in which, example, and connect those supplies across Europe in yes, oil and gas—particularly North sea gas—will have what is called the supergrid—it is, in fact, a sensible a role, but, increasingly, biogas produced from our own addition of connectors with nodal hubs, particularly in indigenous natural resources could be injected into the the North sea—to ensure that the transferability of grid and take the place of mineral gas coming from the energy supplies is complete. Of course, we have a gas North sea to a surprisingly large extent. supergrid in Europe and there is, effectively, the beginnings I am not sure that setting an enormous amount of of an electricity supergrid. An essential part of our store by a technology that relies on a fuel of which we future energy security is a supergrid for renewables. produce not one ounce in this country is a common-sense The things that I have just mentioned are just part of view. Setting aside any of the questions at the front of the answer to the question, “Can we be self-sufficient in our minds about build scale, commissioning, public our energy supplies over the next 40 years?” The facile subsidy and other aspects of nuclear power, we must answer to that question, which we occasionally hear, is, remember that, because nuclear is not renewable, it is “Why, oh why, can’t we be self-sufficient in our energy reasonable to ask questions about the security of supply supplies, because we are the windiest country in Europe, of uranium for reactors, should we build them in this with the biggest tidal range and the biggest effective country. This is not necessarily to take a side on the waves in Europe? We must be able to be energy self- nuclear debate but simply to ask that question. sufficient, mustn’t we?” It is true that we have the biggest wind supply and the greatest tidal range of any Given the likely reserves of uranium—on the present country in Europe and we have the largest range of supply against production—its life is roughly that of facility of any country in Europe, but that in itself does oil: 40-odd years. However, if there were a large number not answer our question. The analysis in a recent report of nuclear builds over the next 20 years, the amount by the offshore valuation group entitled, “The Offshore would come down dramatically. On present figures, it Valuation: A valuation of the UK’s offshore renewable appears that uranium could become scarce during the energy resource”, is increasingly providing an answer. lifetime of a future nuclear reactor built in this country. That ought to raise a question mark about energy The group eschewed the idea of going for the big security, and about the role that nuclear may play in picture or saying, “We’ve got all the resources, therefore future considerations for the UK. it must work”, and instead did a sober analysis, area by area, of this country’s renewable offshore resource, Indeed, given our concerns about our carbon dioxide looking at where the constraints were in landing, or emissions and footprint, new supplies of uranium would depth of offshore water, and considering what proportion need to be found. Otherwise, existing supplies would be of our theoretical resource could be landed, assuming depleted, and the richness of uranium per tonne of rock the investment was there to make the landing possible. mined would be so low that the carbon footprint would The group assumed a relatively modest proportion of eventually equate to that of a gas-fired power station. the total practical resource, setting aside those areas That would not follow the low-carbon footprint route where constraints were likely to be insufficient to render for our energy supplies in the long term. The figures exploitation practical. It suggested that only about 29% relate to Australian and, to some extent, Canadian of the practical resource would be harnessed by 2050. supplies of uranium. There are richer supplies in places On looking at that resource, it found that the full 161WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 162WH

[Dr Whitehead] 3.48 pm practical resource of 2,131 terawatt-years exceeded UK Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): May I say that it electricity demand six times over. The practical landed is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Miss resource would, on that basis, not only easily be able to Begg, especially given the lead that you have provided deal with the UK’s practical demand, but would make on energy policy and the fantastic work that you have the UK a substantial net electricity exporter. Incidentally, done in your role as a first-class constituency Member that figure would be likely to encompass the spike in of Parliament? May I also say that it is a huge surprise electricity demand—and the difference that that would to catch your eye? I had not intended to speak at make to our energy economy—from electric vehicles. length—I wanted to make a couple of interventions—but I am pleased to participate in an increasingly vital part The group included a number of scenarios in its of public policy, which we will need to consider in the report. The middle range of scenarios, under which 20 to 30-year period as we move towards a decarbonised there would be 29% of resource utilisation, would mean economy. an install capacity offshore of about 169 GW, capital I am concerned about energy security. Rising demand expenditure of just over £400 billion over the period to for energy, caused by emerging markets—the likes of 2050, and annual revenue of £62 billion, and thus a China, India, Brazil and Russia—together with constraints substantial income generating capacity for the UK. The on capacity with regard to supply, mean that we will see UK would also be a net electricity exporter, after all the markedly rising energy prices in the next 10 to 20 years. demands here were taken into account. That brings the We must combat that. Coupled with that is the fact that connectors into context. We have always assumed that fossil fuels are a finite resource. Mother earth is not connectors are based on the idea of balancing the UK making any more oil and gas. system, so that energy comes in from abroad when the UK does not have sufficient resource of its own. The When we burn fossil fuels we produce negative disruptive prospect of the UK systematically exporting from its repercussions for our climate. The point, as my hon. connectors is a secure foundation for our energy security Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) considerations in future. said, is that we must reduce our reliance on external sources of energy, and try to produce our own as far as The report also considers a matter that a number of possible. In that context, I want to raise four brief people have considered: whether the UK energy economy points to which I hope the Minister will be able to can stand the penetration of renewables in a scenario respond. such as the one that I have just mentioned, which suggests that a penetration of renewables of some 50% The Chamber has waited with bated breath for the would be the consequence of such practical exploitation three points I am going to make about the coalition of UK offshore facilities. It also adds floating wind and programme. I do not doubt the Minister’s personal tide and wave to fixed offshore wind, as technologies commitment to energy security, but from what I have that would be deployed in respect of that outcome. That read in the coalition programme, I do not have the scenario suggests that it is necessary for the energy feeling that the entire Government share that commitment. economy to have a reserve of some 34 GW, which is The three bullet points in the programme that mention getting on for 50% of our present total capacity of our energy security are scant on detail. They state: electricity supply, to balance the 50% renewables “We will reform energy markets to deliver security of supply penetration. The report is also clear about the changes and investment in low carbon energy, and ensure fair competition that are taking place, as the Minister mentioned, in including a review of the role of Ofgem. respect of the smart grid, energy efficiency considerations, We will instruct Ofgem to establish a security guarantee of storage, the continuing use of inter-country connectors energy supplies. and the role that small-scale generation plays in the We will give an Annual Energy Statement to Parliament to set energy economy, all of which would have a substantial strategic energy policy and guide investment.” hand in ensuring that the balance was possible under Will the Minister put a bit more meat on the bones to that level of penetration. explain what that means? I know that we may discuss it The long-term answer to the question, “Should we, on Second Reading of the Energy Security and Green from a common sense point of view, source as much of Economy Bill, but the matter is vital and to provide our energy as possible from indigenous resources?” is some reassurance and good, clear direction of travel, it yes. The answer to the question, “Can we source as would be useful to have a bit more information. On the much energy as possible from indigenous resources?” is final bullet point—an annual energy statement to also yes, but neither of those answers is based on Parliament—it would be helpful if the Minister confirmed fanciful assumptions about how our energy economy that that is the case, and give a pledge that a big part of might develop. There are realistic scenarios for the next that statement will be the way in which the Government 40 years, showing a change in the relationship between will ensure energy security. our energy supply and our energy use, and a change in My next point was alluded to by my hon. Friend the the make-up of that relationship in such a way that our Member for Southampton, Test, and it exercises me energy economy is fully secure by 2050, against what we because it will be big factor in the next 10 or 20 years. It know will be increasingly violent vicissitudes in the concerns our capacity as a country to obtain natural world energy economy. If we can achieve that starting resources, particularly for energy and particularly when on this Government’s watch—great progress was made emerging powers, such as China, India and Brazil, are on the previous Government’s watch—not only will we engaged in a 21st-century equivalent of the scramble for secure our energy supplies for the future, but we will Africa. My hon. Friend rightly mentioned the fact that secure our carbon commitments at the same time, which China is locking in long-term contracts with African is the other key element. nations, such as Angola and Sudan. An important 163WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 164WH tangent is that it is imposing no conditions regarding has inhibited progress. We have huge potential in the good governance or transparency in financial transactions. north-east. What steps will the Minister take to ensure That impacts on our international development policy. that we fulfil it? I have invited him to the Tees valley to Given that, and given what my hon. Friend the Member look at the potential there, and I do so again. The role for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), of the north-east in the future share of the British the Opposition spokesperson, said about not leaving economy and energy policy is incredibly exciting. the matter to the vagaries of the market, what reassurance My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and can the Minister give, in view both of the emerging Finsbury said that we must not leave the matter to the markets, and of what China is doing to ensure that it vagaries of the market, and she is absolutely right. We has access to energy supply in the next 20 to 30 years, need big government on energy security in the 21st about what our Government are doing to ensure that century, and we need strong leadership. I know that the we have the same access? Minister is up for that, but I question whether his Since the industrial revolution, we have had an energy Government as a whole are up for it. I hope to be market with big powerhouses that have supplied and reassured by his response. sourced energy and pushed it out into communities and industry. During the next half century, we will continue to need that. The area that I represent has the largest 3.58 pm concentration of chemical engineering anywhere in western Charles Hendry: It is a continuing pleasure to serve Europe. To ensure that we are an economically vital under your chairmanship, Miss Begg. We have had a nation and can produce manufacturing that we can high-quality debate. Our numbers may have been limited, export to the rest of the world, we will continue to need but we have touched on many of the key issues that go that macro-generation power grid. to the heart of the debate on energy security, and some The Labour Government started to put in train huge of the big structural issues, as well as some of the more opportunities for micro-generation, domestic consumers localised policy issues that go with that. During the next and, importantly, community groups to produce their two hours, I hope to go through those in significant own indigenous, domestically derived energy, and in the detail. process to derive resources and revenue supplies, which The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury, may be useful for individual and community needs. who speaks for the Opposition on these matters, started Many community groups in my constituency would by talking about big government. She asked whether we benefit from solar panels—for example, on a community need big government in this area, and said that we hall—and from being able to use the revenue for community cannot leave such matters to the vagaries of the market. needs and objectives. We are in no doubt that the Government must provide The Government have begun to restrict the opportunities leadership in such matters. The old Lawsonian approach to allow communities and domestic consumers to put in of leaving them to the market worked when we were place domestic micro-generation. Will the Minister explain awash with our own oil and gas, and companies throughout what incentives he could put in place? The feed-in tariffs the world wanted to invest in the United Kingdom, but are very welcome, but some of the initial set-up costs we must now climb an extraordinary mountain of new are restrictive and even prohibitive. The average cost of investment, and we must appeal to companies putting solar panels on a roof in my constituency is headquartered in France, Germany and elsewhere around about £12,000, which prevents the vast majority of the world, so we need greater Government leadership people from even considering it. What further steps can and engagement. But we are also a party committed to the Minister take forward to ensure that we have an decentralisation. Setting a policy framework to stimulate exciting new generation of domestically derived energy investment is not incompatible with allowing production in our country? decentralisation of power. We are genuinely committed I mentioned my final point in another debate in this to allowing communities to decide what is right for the Chamber on nuclear power, and I give notice to the development of their areas, and to empower them to Minister that I will keep banging on and on about the make those decisions. role of the north-east in energy production and supply. Clearly, above a certain level—the 50 MW threshold— We have all the ingredients in place for my region to be such things will become nationally significant infrastructure the great powerhouse, not only for this country, but for projects and decisions will be taken centrally. I will Europe and, arguably, the world in ensuring that we come on to those planning issues later, but we are have a diverse source of energy production and supply. committed to the principle of decentralisation. What can the Minister do to ensure that potential? That is also true for electricity generation more generally, Narec in Blyth is a centre of excellence for renewable and the roll-out of microgeneration. We inherited a energy. Given where we are in terms of marine technology target of 2% of electricity to be provided by microgeneration and our proximity to the North sea, all the different by 2020. That is unambitious, and I agree with the hon. sources of energy—oil, gas, renewables and nuclear in Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) when he said that my constituency—can provide the 21st century, modern we now have a real opportunity. As he said, not just for economy that the north-east demands. individual households, but for community groups, schools We have great things in place. The developments at and groups of houses, microgeneration will often be a Narec, the Centre for Process Innovation in the Tees more attractive way of achieving economies of scale Valley, and Renew Tees Valley, were being led by the and the best possible investment. Within that framework, regional development agency, One NorthEast, which we must look at which technologies will be right for was adding value by ensuring that we could have a different parts of the country. There is no doubt that the low-carbon economy and energy policy, but confusion generation capacity of solar power is greater in the over the Government’s contradictory advice on RDAs south than it is further north. We cannot necessarily 165WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 166WH

[Charles Hendry] The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury rather implied that everything in the garden had been have a variable rate of feed-in tariffs for different parts perfect until 6 May, when it suddenly went catastrophically of the country, but there will be other areas where wrong. In the spirit of coalition politics, I am willing to biomass or small wind energy systems or whatever will say that the last Government made some moves in the be more appropriate. We must make sensible choices right direction, but there were other things that they about how best to use the resources available. should have done and failed to do, or did not do until it was too late. Had we not had a five-year moratorium on The hon. Gentleman spoke about the role of the nuclear power, those decisions would now be well in Government and how we can develop long-term contracts, hand and we would have concrete going into the ground and he mentioned the work of the Chinese and others. and the process would be underway. Had we not had We are committed to that, and the Prime Minister has countless Green Papers, White Papers, policy reviews, said that he wants Ministers to help secure such long-term new Acts of Parliament and 16 Ministers in 13 years, we contracts. In the past, if there was a new big gas deal to might have had greater focus on some of the challenges be signed, we tended to find that the French would send that we face. We are trying to respond to the challenges President Sarkozy, the Germans would send Chancellor that we have inherited, and I will list the ones mentioned Merkel, and we would send the British high commissioner, by the hon. Lady. who is no doubt a fine man or woman, but they do not have quite the same clout and sense of national significance. Gas storage is a particularly important matter and We are determined to raise the profile of the Government the concerns that we expressed earlier in the year were when trying to secure such agreements. Of course, there well founded. However, those concerns must be seen in will be differences of approach between us and the context. Although they were raised during the winter, Chinese in such matters, but we must show those countries they looked ahead not just to that winter but to the with whom we would like to be strategic partners of the outlook that we imagine will develop in the years ahead. importance that we attach to such a relationship. There The Government’s low carbon transition plan painted a should be no doubt about that. picture that suggested that the volume of imports would not change over the next decade, and that the use of gas The hon. Gentleman also asked about elements of was supposed to come down sufficiently fast so that the coalition agreement. We have said that we will imports could be maintained at the same level. Nobody reform the regulator, and in general we believe that any in the real world believes that. Many people, including regulatory activity is crucial and must be independent. key industry observers and analysts, believe that 70% or It should be carried out within a framework set by the 80% of our gas will be imported by 2020. If we do not Government. Part of our anxiety has been that the start to take action now to ensure our security of supply excellent work of Project Discovery carried out by with that level of imports, we will reach such a situation Ofgem should have been done by the Government. The and it will be critical and unachievable. We recognise Government should have stated their priorities and that at the moment, the short-term outlook is relatively explained where the balance between low-carbon energy benign for a range of reasons. We must take steps now and security of supply lay. We must take the policy to address the situation. framework back within Government so that the regulator I recognise the crucial contribution that Langeled can be responsible for regulating within that framework. and the liquefied natural gas facilities have made. As the The hon. Gentleman also mentioned ensuring the security hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) of supply. Again, the regulator should be charged with said, just because we have a facility does not mean that finding the best way of ensuring that people, particularly it will be used. The LNG facilities are often on tankers those who are using gas in the mix, have ways of that set off around the world without a particular meeting demand. There will still be flexibility in how market in place, and they will go to the highest bidder. that is achieved, and that should be a further additional That is not the cheapest way of getting gas, but we can role for the regulator. get it if we are prepared to pay more than anybody else. The hon. Gentleman asked about the annual statement Dr Whitehead: My point about the current idleness of that will come before the House shortly. It is intended as United States LNG terminals, and the changes in the a forward look. It is not supposed to be a meaningless US gas market as a result of shale gas, means that selection of warm words, but rather an annual hard the LNG market is substantially changed regarding the look at the challenges that we face and the progress we destination of those supplies to countries other than the are making towards meeting those challenges. Normally, US. Therefore, on a worldwide basis, the LNG we would expect it to include a winter outlook, but arrangements have begun to be altered by that factor given the time of the year in which we are doing it, it over the past few years. My point was about the role of might be a bit early for that. However, we certainly want LNG in our energy security considerations, and the to give hon. Members the chance to question us robustly extent to which, should there be issues of gas supply in in the House about the security arrangements for the UK, LNG now appears to be a better option than forthcoming winters. has been the case over the past few years. I hope that that reassures the hon. Gentleman about Charles Hendry: There is no doubt that the situation the underlying principles. I also want to reassure him has become more benign as a result of the discoveries of that for me, energy security lies at the heart of any shale gas. We are still trying to establish how substantial energy policy. As I said in my opening remarks, if we do we believe shale gas to be, and at what cost it can be not get energy security right, the low-carbon agenda extracted in the United Kingdom and over what time will become much more difficult and the issue of scale. It is a game changer in the United States and, as affordability will go out of the window. Energy security the hon. Gentleman suggests, it has virtually wiped out is a core part of our policy. its LNG imports. We think that it will be significant in 167WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 168WH

China and may change the dynamics of new pipeline Let me move on to some of the other technologies connections within central Asia. We think that it will be that were raised. The hon. Member for Islington South large in places such as Poland, but we do not yet have a and Finsbury rightly spoke about nuclear. We would be full grasp of the implications for the United Kingdom. further ahead had it not been for the moratorium, but It has undoubtedly meant that more gas is available for the position of the Government now is absolutely clear. our LNG facilities than there would otherwise have Nuclear will be part of the mix if it can be built without been. As a precautionary approach, we must look long-term subsidy. There are no ifs or buts; that is an absolutely at our vulnerabilities and our exposure to imports, and clear position. ensure that measures to protect security of supply are in I hope that the hon. Lady will work with us, because place through storage and long-term contracts. Those in opposition, I was very happy to work with the areas were all set out in our policy paper ahead of the Government to reassure potential investors, to the extent election, and a range of issues will be used to address that I was asked to go to the investors forum a couple of the existing challenges. years ago so that investors could be told that the potential The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury new Minister, if there was a change of Government, spoke about how the last Government had doubled the was attending and could give that continuity of policy. amount of renewable energy. She managed to get the Investors attach enormous importance to that political UK to number 26 in the European Union, which was stability. I hope that, given that the position is absolutely undoubtedly an enormous triumph. I think that we are clear, the hon. Lady will decide that she wants to just ahead of Malta, but have slipped behind Luxembourg, be a serious contributor to the debate, rather than which is obviously a desperate blow. Frankly, it is not a making political comments from the sidelines, because good place to be and we need a seven-fold increase over that will do more to undermine the case for new the next decade to get us where we need to be. That is a investment than anything happening elsewhere. There are massive challenge and more must be done across the communities up and down the country that want to see spectrum. parties working together on this issue. We have a clear position, which is essentially the same position as that There is an issue about winning public support. We of the previous Administration, and I urge her to work believe that renewable energy should not be imposed on with us. communities, but should have popular support within communities. The previous Secretary of State, the right An important point about the changes that we are hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband)— making is that we have said that the national policy now shadow Energy Minister before he moves on to his statements will be voted on on the Floor of the House. new job—has spoken of different techniques. First, he That will send a clear message to investors that there is said that people should have wind farms because it massive cross-party support for the national policy would be good for everybody. That did not really win statements when they are put forward. I hope that that people’s hearts and minds. He then said that people will be the outcome of that process. It is not just a should have a wind farm because it would be bad if they political party saying, “This is our position,” but the did not—a bit like somebody who drives across a zebra House as a whole expressing its view on the national crossing without stopping—but that did not win hearts policy statements. That makes the process more robust, and minds. reduces the risk of judicial review and enhances the prospect of making progress. We think that a new approach is necessary that will actively engage communities in ensuring that they see what the benefits will be. They will keep business rates Emily Thornberry: The problem with the changes to locally. We will find ways of encouraging community the planning system is not just who will make the ownership. The income stream from one of the turbines national policy statements and how they will be decided, perhaps goes directly into the community, so it can see but how they will be implemented and the fact that a that it is hosting something on behalf of the wider Minister will be implementing the decisions. That is the region or the national interest and that a real benefit reason why many people and organisations are concerned comes back to it for hosting the facility. that there will be delay. That is a vital issue in respect of the development of our infrastructure. I agree with some of the comments from the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead). Because of the inherent flexibilities in the system, one has to Charles Hendry: Let me seek to reassure the hon. consider how one manages that. One has to have back-up Lady. The discussions that we have had with industry systems or use what I hope will become a particularly have reassured it about the changes that we are making. exciting area of policy—storage technologies. Those Our concern about the Infrastructure Planning Commission can involve compressed air, pump storage, hydrogen was that it had no democratic accountability. Decisions and batteries. The pace at which global technologies are on nationally significant issues were being made with moving forward in that area is very exciting. It offers us no prospect of contributions from Members of Parliament eventually the great prize of renewable energy from and without the opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny. wind being available when people want it, rather than We believed that that was not just democratically wrong, simply when the wind provides it. I think that that will but enhanced the risk of judicial review, so the change be an important part of policy. that we have made is that the back-office function—the work of analysing the individual planning applications—will The hon. Gentleman also talked about the smart go ahead as originally planned but within the planning grid. That is the great prize of smart metering—the inspectorate, and the recommendation will then be made ability to manage demand much more effectively and to to the Secretary of State, who will have three months to try to ensure that we can shave off demand at the top make a decision. That is exactly the same time scale as and have a sensible structure for managing the system. would have been the case under the IPC, but there will 169WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 170WH

[Charles Hendry] the main Chamber. There is a range of areas where the Minister can be subject to scrutiny on the decision be less chance of judicial review and there will be made. It is a quasi-judicial role, but we believe that it greater parliamentary accountability. Also, transitional provides a degree of democratic accountability that is arrangements will be in place so that whichever system simply missing within the IPC. We may simply have to an application starts under, it will complete under it. disagree. We believe that the process maintains the There will be no risk, when the system changes, of an speed and the important elements of the IPC—changes application that was two thirds of the way through that the previous Government put in place—but it having to start again. Whichever jurisdiction it starts rectifies the democratic deficit. under, it will continue under. The hon. Lady raised additional matters relating to The process provides the speed that is necessary and the nuclear sector. She asked about the work of the that industry is keen to have. It provides greater scrutiny, Nuclear Decommissioning Authority.We take very seriously greater acceptability and less risk of judicial review, the legacy issues, but we separate out the legacy which might delay the whole process by six or 12 months. responsibilities from new build. There is no doubt that Those are the reasons why we have made the changes, clearing up the old legacy issues, which are a combination but we have been extremely conscious throughout of of civil and military nuclear issues, is something for the need to maintain investor confidence, and the work which the nation, the taxpayer, the Government have to that we have carried out with the investors reassures us be responsible. The previous Government addressed that we have got the balance right. putting that right with a degree of seriousness that had Emily Thornberry: I am very interested to hear what been missing historically, for which I give them credit, the hon. Gentleman is saying, and it is clarifying a but much is guided by independent legal assessment. number of issues, but there is the additional residual The Government are not at liberty to decide which bits problem. He talks about the national policy statements they want to do themselves. They are required by law to being agreed on the Floor of the House and party carry out certain actions now in respect of the clear-up, politics therefore being taken out of it. Nevertheless, if and that work is central to the work of the Department. an individual Minister will in the end make the decision, The hon. Lady will be aware that the NDA’s budget is surely party politics comes straight back in again. about half the entire departmental budget, so if there are areas that are not absolutely necessary and there are Charles Hendry: The hon. Lady is absolutely wrong. areas where we can gain additional resources and revenue, The Minister is acting in a quasi-judicial capacity. He is we will, rightly, consider those as well, but I ask her to acting not as a party politician, but as someone who has be in no doubt whatever about the moral imperative a legal responsibility. A recommendation will be put to that we attach to addressing the legacy issues. him through the planning inspectorate as to whether to The hon. Lady also asked about Sheffield Forgemasters. accept or decline an application. He will not be able to I repeat the assurance given by the Secretary of State in say, “That’s a little bit close to a Conservative seat”—or the Chamber last week during oral questions. He said a Labour seat—“so I won’t give it the go-ahead.” He that it was purely about costs, and that the nation could must decide on the basis of the argument put to him not afford many of the projects that had been approved—it and must explain why he has either accepted or declined was on those grounds rather than because it was related the application. The process is intended to maintain to the nuclear industry. He also highlighted the fact that political impartiality. had the directors involved been willing to dilute their I can tell the hon. Lady that I do not believe that in shareholding it would have been easier to get a commercial any decision I am making, there is a political imperative loan. Is it the Government’s job to put public money about where a national grid connection, a nuclear power into a private company to enable directors to maintain plant or a new gas-fired plant goes. My job is to look their shareholdings if commercial arrangements could after the national interest and to ensure that applications have enabled them to secure that loan elsewhere? The are made in line with planning law. To me, this is not a directors now say that they will seek to carry this party political issue, as I hope the hon. Lady will accept. forward through other mechanisms, seeking loans and We are deciding on projects of national significance and support elsewhere. We believe that that is right. At the trying to get the right outcome as far as the country is end of the day, however, it is not about nuclear; it is concerned. money that the Government simply do not have. We Emily Thornberry: The hon. Gentleman talks about have run out of money, as the former Chief Secretary political impartiality and a quasi-judicial function, but told us. surely a Minister has choice. If a Minister is to act in a judicial fashion, he or she simply has to step out of the Emily Thornberry: The problem with the Minister’s arena and make a quasi-judicial decision. I do not explanation is that he was talking of a commercial loan. understand, if someone is to make a decision in some Given that the company is worth £40 million and the sort of judicial capacity, how that is democratically loan was for £80 million, it was not a question of selling accountable. Either they are allowed to use their political shares to raise money; the company was not worth the brain and make a decision, which is then democratically amount of the loan. That is the problem. That is why we accountable, or they use a judicial one, which steps need a forward-thinking Government, that has ambition outside the arena and outside politics. but which understands the importance of moving to a low-carbon economy. The Secretary of State for Business, Charles Hendry: The fundamental difference is that a Innovation and Skills often criticised the banks for not Minister sits in Parliament. A Minister can be questioned being forward looking enough by when he was in by Members of Parliament. They can be called before Opposition; now, in Government, it would seem that he Select Committees much more readily. There can be is falling into exactly the same trap with the banks that debates in Westminster Hall or Adjournment debates in he used so readily to criticise. 171WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 172WH

Charles Hendry: We are considering a whole range of Forward has been considering how to put a carbon things to which the previous Government were committed. capture and storage infrastructure in place; it is ahead Many were laudable, worthwhile projects, but we have of anything else in England. I hope that some of that to accept that we have run out of money. That was the work will be continued, even if RDAs are not part of fundamental problem. There was nothing about the that future—they may be in some parts of the country—but nuclear industry, the locus of her original charge; we local authorities, which are responsible for business had to consider major areas of expenditure, and development, might see it as a particular advantage for commitments that had been made that could not be their communities, and be keen to ensure that it is part funded. It is a good company and a good project, and of the mix. Again, I am happy to visit the north-east to we want it to happen, but we have to decide whether talk to those in the RDA about how we can build on the public money should be contributed, given that we are work that has already been done. trying to reduce some of the pressures and burdens on The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury taxpayers. I assure the hon. Lady that the decision was spoke about carbon capture and storage. I shall answer based on the fact that the money was not available; it directly some of her questions. She asked whether every was no reflection on the company’s workmanship, which new plant built after 2020 would be required to have full is outstanding, or the nature of the project itself. CCS. The position is as it was under the Labour The hon. Member for Hartlepool spoke about the Government, which is that they will be required to have north-east and the contribution that it can make, as he CCS or that it should be retrofitted in due course. An has done before. I asked whether I could visit the area important aspect of the levy is that it can be used for rather than him inviting me, but my offer to visit is still retrofitting in plants used in the pilot projects. there. I shall have to be slightly careful about those The hon. Lady asked whether the four plants would nuclear plants that are going through the planning all be coal or whether one would be gas. We are considering process, as I may subsequently be involved in some of the recommendations of the Select Committee on Energy those decisions. However, I am particularly keen to see and Climate Change, which said that we should be some of the supply chain opportunities and the industries doing a pilot project on gas. We need to consider the that ride on the back of them. I recognise the fantastic balance, deciding whether one of the four should be gas opportunities and potential of the north-east, and of or whether the first four should be coal. There is no those elsewhere. doubt in our minds that coal is the imperative. Coal is What is exciting at the moment is that many parts of the greater polluter; it is where the technology is closer the country are looking at their energy potential. Cumbria to the market. The focus is very much on coal, but we is calling itself the energy coast, and Anglesey calling were pleased that the levy was changed under the Energy itself the energy island. Many see it as a key point in Act 2010 to allow it to be used also for developing gas selling their areas to potential investors. The skills base and biomass technologies. The hon. Lady also asked of the north-east and the extraordinary depth of experience about the emissions performance standard. We are indeed in the engineering and technical sectors must be an committed to putting in place an emissions performance incredible attraction to industry. People looking to come standard, and in the near future we will be setting out to the United Kingdom will undoubtedly consider the our thinking and how we intend taking it forward. north-east to be a priority area. I would very much The hon. Member for Southampton, Test always welcome the opportunity to see some of that potential brings a huge amount of wisdom and experience to with the hon. Gentleman. such debates, for which I am grateful. He spoke about the oil sector. I agree with him on the subject of peak Mr Wright: Before the Minister moves on from the oil. Realistically, we will not know when peak oil has economy of the north-east, will he comment on the happened until some time afterwards. However, Nobuo prospect of One North East and the regional development Tanaka of the International Energy Agency spoke earlier agencies in providing such leadership to potential investors this week about the need to bring down demand ahead on the energy potential of my region? of the peak in supply. If we can get the peak in demand to come earlier, consumers will benefit because the price Charles Hendry: I am sorry, but I should already have of oil will drop dramatically. If the peak in demand done so, as the hon. Gentleman raised the matter earlier. happens after the peak in supply, the oil companies will We believe that some of the things that the regional benefit because they will be able to ramp up their prices. development agencies have done were truly strategic, For me, that shows the imperative to decarbonise society but that others were slightly artificial. People’s view of and to move ahead more quickly. RDAs is different in the various parts of the country. We have talked of energy efficiency today; that will Having been to see One North East, it is clear that the clearly be part of the solution. We shall need to decarbonise area had a better sense of regional identity than in my ground transportation, but we also need more low-carbon region of the south-east. There is not an enormous methods of electricity generation. In looking at the way amount binding the western end of Oxfordshire with forward, we need long-term vision. We must decide eastern Kent; people have different perceptions in different what steps should be taken now in order to pre-empt parts of the country. However, there must be rationality. the inevitable; the situation will become more challenging Most coastal RDAs say that they are the No. 1 place over time, and we must try to ensure that society and in the United Kingdom to develop offshore wind facilities, the nation decarbonise. but they cannot all be No. 1. If we are trying to attract I pick up on what the hon. Gentleman said about big international investors, there may be a case for international reliance. I was intrigued by some of his considering the wider national interest rather than breaking comments. It appears that he is willing to accept it in things down further. However, RDAs have undoubtedly some areas but less so in others. For example, we get done some exceptional work. For example, Yorkshire most of our coal from imports, Russia being the single 173WH Energy Security8 JULY 2010 Energy Security 174WH

[Charles Hendry] very important aspect of our security, and it means that we can consider how to address some of these challenges largest market from which we buy, and we will become on an international basis rather than seeing ourselves increasingly dependent on imported gas from Norway purely as an island in which we have to generate all our and Qatar. I am not sure whether he wants to see the own electricity and all our sources of energy domestically. closure of the LNG facilities, but picking out nuclear Moreover, it means that there are parts of the world and uranium as being something that we import was that will inevitably benefit greatly from that. Potentially, slightly perverse in the wider context. Diversity is as we could have hydropower coming in from Scandinavia, important as our domestic resources. We enhance our geothermal energy from Iceland going to the southern security of supply by having a range of methods of part of the European grid, and electricity coming from electricity generation and different sources of supply. concentrated solar power in the Sahara. That is what makes this such an exciting brief. The opportunities are Dr Whitehead: The hon. Gentleman is right to emphasise utterly different from anything that has existed before, the fact that the aim of being as energy self-sufficient as but we must have the mindset to succeed. We need a possible does not necessarily mean that we should cut long-term vision that goes beyond 2020 to 2040 and off all other sources of energy supply to achieve that 2050, and we have to consider building all the facts into goal. Indeed, a 50% reliance on renewables means that a map so that we can see where all the potential sources we are 50% reliant on non-renewables, which may be may arise. The underlying principle has to be that sourced from places outside the UK. My point about energy security is the driving force of our policy in this uranium was not to question the supply sources, but to area. If we can get energy security right—and we have bring into view the idea that there may well be a peak touched on so many of the issues in the course of the uranium issue in the same way in which there is a peak debate today for which I am truly grateful to the hon. oil issue and whether we ought to factor that into our Lady and hon. Gentlemen—we will put in place a considerations of the long-term supply of that particular system that will pass the test of time, move us to a source. genuinely low-carbon society and keep the affordability Charles Hendry: We undoubtedly have to factor in issue right at the top of our minds as well. such a consideration. There is 40 years’ supply of ground- Miss Begg, we are grateful to you for chairing our based uranium, but there could be 1,000 years of supply discussions this afternoon. I hope that I have answered of water-sourced uranium. We may also need to consider some of the questions that have been raised during the other technologies such as thorium power, which clearly course of this debate. does not have the same weapons risks, to see what role Question put and agreed to. they might play in the future. Let me finish on an area of common ground. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test discussed international 4.32 pm grids and connections on the electricity side. That is a Sitting adjourned. 13WS Written Ministerial Statements8 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS Written Ministerial NORTHERN IRELAND Sentence Review Commissioners Statements The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Thursday 8 July 2010 Paterson): I have today arranged for the annual report of the Sentence Review Commissioners for Northern Ireland to be laid in the House. Copies of the report have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE TRANSPORT Court of Justice of the European Union Merchant Shipping (Ship-to-Ship Transfers) Regulations The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague): At a conference of representatives of Governments of member states on The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport 8 July 2010 the appointment of a Netherlands judge to (Mike Penning): I wish to inform the House about the the General Court is to be considered. Government’s intentions concerning the Merchant Shipping The nomination is in respect of: Marc Van Der Woude. (Ship-to-Ship Transfers) Regulations (S.I. 2010/1228). These regulations were laid before the House on Having consulted with the Lord Chancellor, Secretary 9 April 2010. of State for Justice and Attorney-General, the Foreign Secretary agrees to the appointment. There is no doubt that ship-to-ship transfers require some form of regulation because of their potential for damage to the UK’s seas and coasts. The regulations endeavour to address this in two separate and distinct ways: Court of Justice of the European Union (Correction) they prohibit ship-to-ship transfers and bunkering operations outside harbour authority waters; and they put in place a legislative regime for assessing and licensing harbour authorities which propose to allow ship-to-ship The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): A transfers in their waters. written ministerial statement on 22 June 2010, Official I am aware that there have been concerns expressed Report, column 13WS made by the Secretary of State by industry and by some hon. Members about some for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs stated that aspects of these regulations. I am also conscious that Otto Czúcz, a Hungarian judge was to be reappointed there are those who support the regulations in their to the General Court on 23 June 2010. The reappointment current form. did not take place on that date and is to be considered at a conference of representatives of Governments of member The key objective has to be to ensure that the regulations states on 8 July 2010. are fit for purpose and do not apply additional, unnecessary burdens to industry. The Foreign Secretary agrees to the reappointment having consulted with the Lord Chancellor, Secretary I am also committed to ensuring that the policy and of State for Justice and Attorney-General. legislative processes associated with the passage of the regulations are entirely proper and fully consistent with the principles of better regulation. Accordingly, I am today announcing a review of the INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT regulations. I would like to invite all interested parties— including hon. Members, local authorities, industry and DFID Programme (Zimbabwe) environmental non-governmental organisations—to set out their views on the regulations by 30 September. I also intend to meet some of the interested parties. The Secretary of State for International Development To allow the necessary time for this review to be (Mr Andrew Mitchell): Today we are publishing by carried out, I am today laying before the House a Command Paper the Government response to the former Statutory Instrument, the Merchant Shipping (Ship-to-Ship International Development Committee’s report on DFID’s Transfers) (Amendment) Regulations 2010 (SI 2010 programme in Zimbabwe. The report was published on No.1769), which defers the entry into force of the 26 March 2010. regulations from 1 October to 1 April 2011. The report gives a sound endorsement of the UK’s work in Zimbabwe. I visited Zimbabwe in September WORK AND PENSIONS 2009 and commend the Committee’s understanding of both the challenges Zimbabwe faces and the significant Occupational Pensions potential to rebuild the country when political progress permits. The UK remains committed to playing a leading role in Zimbabwe, both in helping the poorest and most The Minister of State, Department for Work and vulnerable people to meet their basic needs and in Pensions (Steve Webb): The Chancellor of the Exchequer supporting the process of reform. announced in the Budget statement on 22 June that, 15WS Written Ministerial Statements8 JULY 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS with some exceptions, consumer prices rather than retail 2010 when preparing the order required under prices will be the basis for uprating most benefits and paragraph 2(1) of schedule 3 to the Pension Schemes public sector pensions. Act 1993 in relation to revaluation and indexation of The Government believe the CPI provides a more pension rights in defined benefit pension schemes, and appropriate measure of pension recipients’ inflation the order made under section 109 of that Act in relation experiences and is also consistent with the measure of to increases in guaranteed minimum pensions paid by inflation used by the Bank of England. We believe, contracted-out defined benefit schemes in respect of therefore, it is right to use the same index in determining pensionable service between 1988 and 1997; and amend increases for all occupational pensions and payments legislation to enable CPI to be used for relevant increases made by the Pension Protection Fund (PPF) and Financial in respect of the PPF and FAS. Assistance Scheme (FAS). Using CPI will mean making some small changes to Consequently we intend to use the CPI as the basis primary legislation to ensure we can apply it fully in for determining the percentage increase in the general every circumstance. We will bring these before Parliament level of prices for the 12 months ending 30 September at the earliest opportunity. 5P Petitions8 JULY 2010 Petitions 6P

of disruption for applicant and resident alike. Most Petitions importantly, the existing policy of dispersal remains a key part of the process. This means that all those who Thursday 8 July 2010 make their application in Croydon, and who do not already have an address in the UK, are dispersed away from Croydon to areas of the UK where there is OBSERVATIONS accommodation for them. The Government do not, therefore, consider it necessary to introduce funding changes based on Croydon becoming HOME DEPARTMENT the single site screening centre. The UK Border Agency will, of course, continue to monitor the number of Asylum Screening (Croydon) initial asylum applications being made at the ASU in The Petition of the people of Croydon, Croydon. Declares that the decision to make Croydon’s Asylum Screening Unit the only such in-land unit could result in Student Visas an additional 3,650 asylum seekers coming to Croydon each year, and that this will take a financial toll on local The Petition of residents of Cambridge (English UK & services. EFL Organisations), The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Declares that the current review of the Tier 4 points Commons urges the Government to bring in a Bill to based system for Student Visas may result in many ensure that the costs of implementing and running this fewer legitimate students travelling to the UK to learn policy are met from central funds. English. Further declares that this will lead to the And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by closure of many language schools and reduce the number Mr Andrew Pelling, Official Report, 30 March 2010; of foreign students that go into higher education in the Vol. 508, c. 788 .] United Kingdom. [P000807] The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government whilst recognising the Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home importance of Immigration Control to proceed in a Department: way that does not disadvantage English language schools On 14 October 2009, the Asylum Screening Unit —[Official Report, (ASU) in Croydon became the national site for anyone And the Petitioners remain, etc. wishing to make an in-country application for asylum 8 April 2010; Vol. 508, c. 48P.] in the United Kingdom. The UK Border Agency planned [P000827] for this change and took steps to lessen the initial Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home impact on Croydon including arranging for unaccompanied Department: children presenting at Liverpool to continue to be screened there and be the responsibility of Liverpool City Council As set out in “The Coalition: our programme for until April 2010. Unaccompanied children can still be government”, we will introduce new measures to minimise screened outside of Croydon as vulnerable groups can abuse of the immigration system, including via student be dealt with in the regions under UKBA policy. routes. This Government are committed to attracting the brightest and the best students to the United Kingdom Since 14 October, the UK Border Agency has continued and we are determined to encourage legitimate students to monitor the number of people submitting an initial to come to here to study, whether under Tier 4, the asylum application in Croydon to ensure that the levels student tier of the Points Based System (PBS), or via remain consistent with those anticipated and to ensure the student visitor category. that there has been no adverse impact on the area and local services. In fact, asylum intake remains low and We cannot ignore the fact the English language industry there has been no sustained increase in the number of contributes millions of pounds to Britain’s economy adult or unaccompanied asylum seeking children wishing every year, but nor can we ignore the risk posed by to make an asylum application in Croydon. The average those economic migrants who seek to exploit Tier 4. monthly intake remains steady and Croydon ASU is We are, however, making it a priority to strengthen functioning well in its new role. the student tier of the PBS to ensure that it is not open An appointment system has been introduced to ensure to abuse and we will make sure that any future changes that the flow of people into the ASU, and so into address the risk of abuse in a balanced and targeted Croydon itself, is managed effectively and with a minimum manner.

365W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 366W Written Answers to Departmental Regulation Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Questions Northern Ireland which of his Department’s regulations are under review; and if he will make a statement. [7143] Thursday 8 July 2010 Mr Paterson: Following devolution, much of the regulatory framework in Northern Ireland is now the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive. WALES The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) is not currently Departmental Conferences reviewing any regulations within its own area of responsibility. Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate she has made of her Department’s expenditure on (a) organisation of and (b) attendance CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT at conferences in each year since 1997. [6113] Departmental Conferences

Mr David Jones: The Wales Office was established in Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for July 1999. Since that time we have not organised any Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what estimate he conferences or committed any expenditure to attending has made of the expenditure of his Department on (a) conferences. organising and (b) attending conferences in each year Departmental Official Cars since 1997. [5940] John Penrose: The Department’s recorded costs on Mr David: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales organising conferences for each financial year can be pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Dudley found in the following table: North of 9 June 2010, Official Report, column 145W, on departmental official cars, what changes are being Financial year £ made to the allocation of cars for the use of each Minister in her Department. [6547] 1997-98 230,143 1998-99 79,913 Mr David Jones: Since taking office we have cancelled 1999-00 51,576 the car contracted for my use in London, thereby halving 2000-01 68,156 this Department’s previous number of ministerial cars 2001-02 41,808 in London. We are currently looking at value for money 2002-03 49,806 options for the car used by myself and the Secretary of 2003-04 69,920 State in Wales. 2004-05 79,360 Employment: Location 2005-06 170,277 2006-07 231,218 2007-08 158,185 Jacob Rees-Mogg: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 92,149 Wales whether her Department has (a) commissioned and (b) undertaken any research on the effect of Welsh 2009-10 54,674 Development Agency grants on the movement of jobs Costs include conference venue hire, hospitality for from (i) England and (ii) North East Somerset to delegates and fees and travel costs for speakers. The Wales; and if she will make a statement. [6578] substantial increase in expenditure in 2005-06 and subsequent years was predominantly associated with Mr David Jones: No. major conferences arranged with stakeholders following The Welsh Development Agency was abolished on the award of the 2012 Olympics. 1 April 2006 and its functions were absorbed into the The information requested in part (b) of the question Welsh Assembly Government. could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Departmental Equal Opportunities

NORTHERN IRELAND Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much his Departmental Official Photographs Department has spent (a) in total and (b) on staff costs on promoting equality and diversity in each of Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for the last three years for which figures are available; and Northern Ireland how much his Department has spent how many people are employed by his Department for on official photographs of Ministers since the this purpose. [5920] formation of the present Administration. [6459] John Penrose: The total costs on promoting equality Mr Paterson: The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) has and diversity are not held centrally. In each of the last spent a total of £204 on official photographs of Ministers three years, the number of staff working in the Department since the formation of the Government. on diversity and equality as part of their job description 367W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 368W and their cost is set out in the following table. Staff costs Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme have been calculated by using the percentage of time staff have spent on equality and diversity: Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport whether he plans Total number of staff Staff costs (£) to renew the listed places of worship grant scheme on its expiry in 2011. [5880] 2007-08 5 57,869 2008-09 5 58,796 Mr Vaizey: The Listed Places of Worship (LPW) 2009-10 4 35,400 scheme, which makes grants equivalent to the VAT incurred in making repairs to listed buildings in use as Digital Switchover Help Scheme: ITV places of worship, is expected to make grants of around £15 million UK-wide in 2010-11. I acknowledge the scheme’s significant role in helping to keep our listed Jessica Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for ecclesiastical buildings in a good state of repair. A Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how much decision on the scheme’s future beyond the end of funding his Department has allocated to each ITV 2010-11 can be made only as part of the 2010 spending region under the Digital Switchover Help Scheme to review, and will be publicised as soon as is possible. date. [6661] National Lottery: Bassetlaw Mr Jeremy Hunt: A total of £603 million was ring-fenced from the BBC licence fee to fund the Digital Switchover Help Scheme. The breakdown of the £603 million by John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, ITV region is set out in the table. The Channel Islands Olympics, Media and Sport how much each lottery was not included in the allocations outlined in the table funding distributor has allocated to projects located in because the original intention was for them to switch in Bassetlaw in each of the last four years. [6630] 2013, which is outside the current licence fee settlement. The Channel Islands Switchover date was brought forward John Penrose: The amounts of lottery funding distributed but it was decided that there was sufficient money in the constituency of Bassetlaw by the various lottery available within the £603 million to meet the cost. distributors in the last four financial years are shown in Breakdown of the Help Scheme cost by ITV region the table: ITV region Cost (£) £ Admin start-up 25,000,000 Bassetlaw 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total Whitehaven (exceptional 300,000 start-up) Arts Council 137,263 13,716 19,367 78,400 248,746 England Whitehaven 664,627 Sport England 0 0 248,835 9,507 258,342 Border (excluding Isle of 5,911,541 Man and Whitehaven) Big Lottery 535,198 1,394,783 105,453 165,632 2,201,066 Fund1 Isle of Man 452,242 Heritage 15,300 0 2,202,800 22,700 2,240,800 West Country 19,144,986 Lottery Fund Wales 34,432,539 Total 687,761 1,408,499 2,576,455 276,239 4,948,954 Granada 68,879,287 1 These figures and those quoted for the Awards for All joint scheme West 14,943,954 are supplied by the Big Lottery Fund. STV North 11,010,670 In addition, the Bassetlaw constituency benefited STV Central 38,707,095 during financial years 2006-07 to 2009-10 inclusive, Yorkshire 50,941,241 from grants of £311,581 made under the Awards for All Anglia 43,670,485 (England) scheme, which was delivered by the Big Lottery Central 83,879,506 Fund prior to April 2009 and funded by Big Lottery Meridian 51,250,945 Fund, Arts Council England, Heritage Lottery Fund London 75,416,580 and Sport England. Since April 2009 Awards for All has Tyne Tees 28,882,333 been delivered and solely by the Big Lottery Fund. Ulster 21,039,653 The statistics for Arts Council England, Sport England Aftercare1 28,380,595 and the Heritage Lottery Fund come from the Department’s Total 602,908,280 lottery grants database. The database is searchable at: 1 Aftercare is the money set aside to provide ongoing assistance to www.lottery.culture.gov.uk eligible people up to one year after the region has switched. and uses information on lottery grants supplied by the Listed Buildings lottery distributors.

Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympic Games 2012: Business Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many listed buildings have been demolished in the last 12 months. Jessica Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for [5748] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps his Department is taking to inform businesses of the John Penrose: The Department does not hold this opportunities available in supplying products and information. services to the London 2012 Olympics. [6663] 369W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 370W

Hugh Robertson: The Government and its partners Olympic Games 2012: Transport are absolutely committed to making the tens of thousands of direct and supply chain contract opportunities generated Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Secretary of State by the games accessible to a diverse range of businesses for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what arrangements across the UK. are being made to transport by road participants and The London 2012 Business Network is helping businesses others in the period of the London 2012 Olympics; how across the UK to access games-related opportunities many volunteer drivers will be used; what training and and the support they need to compete for them through qualifications they will be required to have; and if he CompeteFor, the groundbreaking electronic brokerage will make a statement. [6278] service for buyers and suppliers in London 2012’s supply chains. Over 6,500 contracts have been opened up through Hugh Robertson: The Olympic Delivery Authority CompeteFor to date. CompeteFor is directly linked to (ODA) will put in place an Olympic Route Network business support services, including Business Link in (ORN) which will enable athletes, officials and media the English regions and its equivalents in the devolved working at the games to get to their events on time, Administrations. Over 45,000 businesses have received although many will also want to use the public transport support as a result of registering on CompeteFor to system. A consultation on the proposed ORN interventions date, helping to leave a legacy of fitter businesses. will begin in late summer 2010. The London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic This has been accompanied by an extensive programme games (LOCOG) will run a fleet of buses and coaches of business engagement. Through a series of events to transport athletes to their events. As a commercial across the UK, the Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) partner for the games, BMW will also provide around has spoken to over 10,000 businesses, informing them 4,000 vehicles to transport athletes, officials, media and of the opportunities and how to get involved, including others working at the games. a two-day visit to the east midlands by the ODA chairman LOCOG’s London 2012 volunteer programme will in April this year. The regions and devolved Administrations be launched this summer, and it is working now on the have held over 400 games-themed events over last year, numbers of volunteers required for each of the roles. informing business about support services that can help Drivers will need to hold a valid driving licence and them ’get fit’ to compete for games-related and other meet the requirements set by insurance and vehicle hire contracts. agreements. All volunteers will be trained, with drivers receiving training specific to their role and the venue or venues they will be working at. This will include, among Olympic Games 2012: East Midlands other things, route training, fuel efficient driving and customer service. Jessica Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many businesses based in the east midlands have been awarded contracts for TRANSPORT work on the London 2012 Olympics site construction projects. [6664] Aviation: Exhaust Emissions Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Hugh Robertson: To date, 41 business registered in the when he plans to respond to the Committee on Climate east midlands region have been awarded contracts directly Change’s advice on the 2050 carbon dioxide emissions supplying the Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA), including target for aviation. [4975] one business based in the Erewash constituency. Many more businesses in the region are winning Mrs Villiers: We are committed to reducing emissions contracts in the supply chains of the ODA’s contractors. from transport and to ensuring we have the right framework For example, a business based in Derbyshire won a in place for aviation to contribute to the UK’s climate significant contract to supply concrete parapets and stabilisation goals. We will consider the detail of policy deck planks to more than 10 new bridges in the Olympic and announce our conclusions on the best way to Park; and a company from Thurmaston won a contract achieve our aims in due course. to supply roof cladding for the Aquatics Centre. More Bus Lanes information is available in the business section of the London 2012 website under the heading ODA Suppliers, Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for where you will find suppliers listed by venue and sector: Transport what guidance his Department provides to http://www.london2012.com/business local transport authorities on the provision of bus 6,275 companies from the region have registered on lanes; whether that guidance covers the minimum CompeteFor, the electronic brokerage service enabling length of bus lanes; and if he will make a statement. businesses to compete for direct and supply chain Olympic- [7021] related opportunities and business support. More than Norman Baker: The Department for Transport provides 6,500 contracts have been opened up through CompeteFor advice on bus priority measures, including bus lanes, in to date. Local Transport Note 1/97: Keeping Buses Moving. In January this year the London Organising Committee Advice on the use of the appropriate traffic signs and for the Olympic and Paralympic Games began in earnest road markings is given in Chapters 3 and 5 of the its procurement for everything it needs to stage a successful Traffic Signs Manual. These documents are available on Games, which will generate many more opportunities the Department’s website. There is no minimum length for businesses across a range of sectors. requirement for a bus lane. 371W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 372W

Departmental Lost Property A1073 Spalding to Eye Improvement Scheme (Lincolnshire) A13/A130 Sadlers Farm Junction Improvements (Essex) Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for A34 Alderley Edge & Nether Alderley Bypass (Cheshire East) Transport what property has been recorded as (a) lost A386 Northern Corridor Major Public Transport Scheme and (b) stolen from the Department in the last 12 (Plymouth) months; and what estimate has been made of the cost A41 Expressway/A4031 All Saints Way Junction Improvement of the replacement of that property. [5972] (Sandwell) A4123/A461 Burnt Tree Junction (Dudley) Norman Baker: The figure provided here is for all A638 Quality Bus Corridor (Doncaster) items recorded as lost or stolen in the last 12 months and is for the entire Department for Transport including A65 Quality Bus Initiative (Leeds) its agencies and shared service centre. The figures provided Baldock Bypass (Hertfordshire) do not include thefts where records are not available Birmingham International Airport/National Exhibition Centre centrally or such thefts that were not reported. While Integrated Transport Access scheme (Solihull) some of this information may exist in records held Birmingham Gateway (New Street Station) (Birmingham) locally within the central Department and the agencies it can be obtained only at disproportionate costs. Blackpool And Fleetwood Tramway Upgrade (Blackpool) The property recorded as lost and stolen in the last 12 Bridlington Integrated Transport Plan (East Riding) months is as follows, and where we have the estimated Brierley Hill Sustainable Access Network (Dudley) replacement costs, this is shown alongside. Connecting Derby (Derby) Cudworth and West Green Bypass (Barnsley) Total estimate East Kent Access Phase 2 (Kent) cost of Item Lost Stolen replacement (£) Edge Lane Eastern Approaches (Liverpool) Greater Bristol Bus Network (South Gloucestershire) BlackBerrys 17 8 5,875 Laptops 22 22,902 Greater Manchester Highway Retaining Walls Maintenance Scheme (Stockport) USB iron key 3 1 220 Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control (GMITA) Encryption tokens 9 1 300 Hall Lane Strategic Gateway (Liverpool) BlackBerry chargers 3 — 36 PC 2 1,600 Hemsworth to A1 Link Road (Wakefield) Mobile phones 28 4 1— Kirklees Bridge Strengthening and Maintenance (Kirklees) Dial fobs 3 — 1— Leeds Inner Ring Road Stage 7 (Leeds) Other IT equipment 7 5 1— Luton Dunstable Busway (Luton) Sat-nav 1 — 80 M4 Junction 11 and Mereoak Junction (Reading) ARVL VED licences 20 — 0 Manchester Metrolink Ashton and East Didsbury extensions Personal items (such 38 7 1— (GMITA) as jewellery and cash) Manchester Metrolink Phase 3a (GMITA) Non personal items 10 4 1— Metro Ticketing And Gating (Nexus) 1 Unavailable. Nuneaton Development Project (Warwickshire) Departmental Official Cars Owen Street Level Crossing Relief Road (Sandwell) Poole Bridge Regeneration Initiative (Poole) Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many (a) civil servants and (b) special Selly Oak New Road (Birmingham) advisers in his Department are entitled to the use of (i) Sittingbourne Northern Relief Road (Kent) a car with a dedicated driver, (ii) a car from the Taunton Third Way (Somerset) Government car pool and (iii) a taxi ordered through a Tees Valley Bus Network Improvements (Middlesbrough) departmental account. [3196] Walsall Town Centre Transport Package (Walsall) West Midlands Red Routes Package 1 (Wolverhampton) Mike Penning: As was the case under previous governments, all civil servants and special advisers may West Midlands Urban Traffic Control (Wolverhampton) use an official car or taxi in properly defined circumstances. Weymouth 2012 Package (Dorset) Weymouth Relief Road (Dorset) Departmental Public Expenditure Wolverhampton Town Centre Access and Interchange (Wolverhampton). Chris Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will list the major projects previously earmarked Departmental Travel for £434.7 million capital grant that will now be subject to the removal of ring-fencing in 2010-11. [2963] Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker [holding answer 17 June 2010]: The Transport when he last travelled on public transport in local authority major projects for which the Department an official capacity. [5815] for Transport will be paying capital grant in 2010-11 are listed, with the grant recipient body shown. We will Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 5 July 2010]: I discuss with the relevant local authorities the grant last travelled on public transport, in an official capacity, arrangements for major projects in 2010-11. today. 373W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 374W

Level Crossings: Bassetlaw of the transport flask; and if he will commission an investigation into the safety of transport of spent nuclear John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for fuel and nuclear waste in UK coastal waters. [5343] Transport what assessment he has made of the safety of level crossings in Bassetlaw constituency. [6902] Mike Penning: The Department for Transport (DFT) was informed prior to the ship’s departure that the Mrs Villiers: The Secretary of State for Transport canisters had been placed in incorrect locations within does not make assessments of safety at level crossings. the transport flask. DFT inspectors prevented the ship’s However, the Office of Rail Regulation ensures, through sailing until the consignor and carrier had satisfied the level crossing order-making process and routine them that safety had not been compromised in any way monitoring of Network Rail’s management of safety, and that the error in loading the flask did not affect its that the appropriate protective equipment is in place to safety functions. control risks at public road crossings. Network Rail also Sellafield Ltd are implementing corrective actions to undertakes risk assessments of every level crossing as prevent a reoccurrence which is being closely monitored part of its safety management processes. by DFT inspectors. Until these corrective measures are The Office of Rail Regulation and the rail industry in place there will be no further shipments of this continue to work to improve safety at level crossings by package design. addressing the root causes of accidents. It should be The Dutch Competent Authority for the transport of noted that an estimated 95% of all level crossing accidents radioactive material contacted the DFT for confirmation are caused by misuse by the user. that the ship used was appropriate for this shipment. Motorcycles: Driving Tests The transport of radioactive material, including spent nuclear fuel and nuclear waste, is governed by the stringent internationally-agreed standards recommended Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Transport what the average waiting time to take an agency appointed by the United Nations to oversee module 1 of the motorcycle test was in (a) Wales, (b) all aspects of the peaceful uses of atomic energy worldwide. England and (c) Scotland in the latest period for which During the period of over 45 years that the IAEA figures are available. [3878] regulations have been in existence, there has been no instance of death or serious injury to persons, nor Mike Penning: At 21 June 2010, the average waiting significant damage to the environment, from radiological time for module 1 motorcycle tests was (a) nine weeks effects caused during the transport of radioactive material in Wales, (b) three weeks in England and (c) two weeks worldwide by all modes of transport when properly in Scotland. packaged and transported in conformity with these Passenger Focus regulations. The sea transport of large quantities of radioactivity Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for (such as spent nuclear fuel and high level waste) are Transport whether he plans to retain Passenger Focus carried out on ships that have been certified to meet the as an independent representative of passenger interests. requirements of the International Code for the Safe [4048] Carriage of Packaged Irradiated Nuclear Fuel, Plutonium and High-level Radioactive Wastes on board Ships Mrs Villiers: The Queen’s Speech announced the (INF Code) produced by the International Maritime Government’s intention to introduce a Public Bodies Organisation as appropriate to the quantities of material (Reform) Bill. As part of the preparation for this Bill, transported. the Department for Transport will be reviewing all of the public bodies it sponsors. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) which organisation has lead responsibility Retford Railway Station: Parking for overseeing the implementation of contingency plans covering nuclear transport ships in UK territorial waters John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for that run into difficulties; [5344] Transport what representations his Department has (2) what specific risk assessment matrices for incidents received on the adequacy of car parking capacity at involving radioactive cargoes have been developed by Retford rail station. [6615] the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency; [5345] (3) what expertise is available to the UK Maritime Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport has received and Coastguard Agency to draw up contingency plans no representations on the adequacy of car parking covering nuclear transport ships in UK territorial waters capacity at Retford station. which run into difficulties at sea; [5346] Shipping: Radioactive Materials (4) what emergency planning exercises involving (a) UK ports and (b) coastal local authorities with Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for scenarios involving ships with radioactive materials Transport what information he has received from (a) cargoes that find themselves in distress in UK International Nuclear Services (INS) and (b) his Dutch territorial waters needing emergency port facilities have counterpart on 28 canisters of vitrified high level radioactive taken place in the last 10 years; [5347] waste from Sellafield being found on arrival on the INS (5) what restrictions are placed on ships carrying nuclear transport ship Atlantic Osprey in Vlissingen in radioactive cargoes in the English Channel in respect of March to be out of position within the holding channels the distance they must remain from shore; and what 375W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 376W notification is given to local authorities on the English ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS south coast that ships carrying radioactive materials are sailing through the English Channel; [5348] Agriculture: Subsidies (6) what expertise is available to the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency in (a) counter pollution and John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) salvage operations in cases of a ship carrying Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much public radioactive cargo in UK territorial waters in which the subsidy was paid to farmers in each constituency in the cargo has to be salvaged after an accident or latest period for which figures are available. [6901] operational problems. [5349] Mr Paice: The Rural Payments Agency does not explicitly record information on payments to farmers Mike Penning: Radioactive material when transported on a constituency basis and this information could be by sea must be packaged and stowed in accordance with obtained only at disproportionate cost. the International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code Further information on recipients of CAP subsidy (IMDG Code). Where certain types of radioactive materials payments may be found at: (such as spent nuclear fuel and high level waste) are carried the ships must be certified to meet the requirements http://www.cap-payments.defra.gov.uk/ of the International Code for the Safe Carriage of This website includes details of all CAP scheme payments, Packaged Irradiated Nuclear Fuel, Plutonium and High- including the single payment scheme (SPS), made to level Radioactive Wastes on board Ships (INF Code) beneficiaries during the years 16 October 2007 to 15 produced by the International Maritime Organisation October 2008 and 16 October 2008 to 15 October 2009. as appropriate to the quantities of material transported. These regulations aside there are no specific restrictions Departmental Water Charges or requirements placed on the sea transport of radioactive materials beyond the general requirements applicable to Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for all ships and cargoes. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the The responsibility for producing emergency plans for answer of 21 June 2010, Official Report, column 29W, dealing with incidents on board ships lies with the on departmental water charges, what the reason is for organisations operating them. In the case of shipments the variation in water charges paid in each year; for of nuclear material on Pacific Nuclear Transport Limited what reasons water charges have been paid on a dormant and the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority ships these site; and whether there have been changes to water are produced and maintained in accordance with the metering (a) methods and (b) equipment at the site in requirements of the IMDG and INF Codes. Their the last three years. [6951] Shipboard Marine Emergency Plans are endorsed by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA). Richard Benyon: The charges levied for the water supply to the site relate to the consumption and the Emergency exercises involving these vessels are standard charge for the provision of supply based on undertaken in accordance with the above codes and the meter size, levied pro rata over the year. International Atomic Energy Agency Safety Guide on Planning and Preparing for Emergency Response to DEFRA is obliged, through an agreement originally Transport Accidents Involving Radioactive Material. made by the Ministry of Defence to retain a water supply as it also supplies a third party which borders The MCA undertakes a National Contingency Plan the site. (NCP) exercise on an annual basis. The programme of In August 2009, Scottish Water downsized the size of exercises involves both UK ports and local coastal the incoming pipe which has significantly reduced the authorities and each scenario is designed to cover a monthly standard charges. range of possible shipboard maritime incidents including dangerous cargoes. Although an incident with a ship carrying a nuclear cargo has not been specifically exercised, Fisheries the response principles will remain the same. In the case of a nuclear incident technical support will be provided Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for by a designated contact for the ship owner at International Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans her Nuclear Services (INS). Department has to support the fishing industry; and if she will make a statement. [5011] The MCA UK Counter Pollution and Salvage Response Team has a tiered callout procedure to any maritime incident. This applies the generic response principles Richard Benyon: The Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) found in the NCP for marine pollution from shipping is the EU’s instrument for the management of fisheries and offshore installations. Within that team, the MCA and aquaculture. We share the European Commission’s duty Counter Pollution and Salvage Officer (CPSO) vision for a healthy marine ecosystem that supports provides an initial assessment and incident response, sustainable, profitable fisheries. Any reform should devolve alerting if necessary the Secretary of State’s Representative fisheries management, away from current centralised for Salvage (SOSREP). control over detailed regulations, and enable fishermen to better plan for their businesses for the longer term. I SOSREP and those in the MCA responsible for am a firm supporter of genuine reform and convinced emergency response have demonstrated a high degree of that we must grasp this opportunity in order to secure expertise in a wide range of salvage and counter-pollution the prosperity and viability of our fishing industries in operations. the medium term. 377W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 378W

The Sustainable Access to Inshore Fisheries (SAIF) (ii) GEO staff are able to use the pool car in exceptional project is looking particularly at reform of inshore circumstances when this is related to ministerial activity (for fisheries management within England aiming to move example going to the airport to meet the Minister for essential the English inshore fishing fleet towards a more economically, business). socially and environmentally sustainable future. The (iii) The standard taxi service has been used by staff very project aims to consult on proposals later this year. occasionally. This service has been used for short journeys where heavy goods need to be transported or where a member of staff Support is also available from the European Fisheries has been taken ill in the office and transported to their home Fund (EFF) which is worth over £100 million in the address. UK. The EFF, which runs until 2013, provides financial (b) Special advisers assistance to help implement the latest reforms to the Special advisers are not entitled to any of the car or taxi CFP and to help the fleets of member states move services. towards a more sustainable future. Incinerators Departmental Public Expenditure

Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Gordon Banks: To ask the Minister for Women and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Equalities how many of the Government Equalities assessment she has made of the effects of incinerators Office’s contracts with its suppliers are under review as on the health of nearby residents. [6216] a result of the recently announced reductions in public expenditure; and what the monetary value is of all such Richard Benyon: The Health Protection Agency published contracts which are under review. [3649] a report of its review of the latest scientific evidence on the health effects of modern municipal waste incinerators Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office, in September 2009. The report concludes that while it is in line with Office of Government Commerce policy, not possible to rule adverse health effects out completely, uses contracts and frameworks negotiated by other any potential damage from modern, well run and regulated Government Departments. Any review of these contracts incinerators is likely to be so small that it would be with suppliers will be conducted by those Departments. undetectable. Gordon Banks: To ask the Minister for Women and Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Equalities how many officials in the Government Equalities Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment Office are working on renegotiating contracts for the she has made of the effects of incinerators on nearby supply of goods and services to the Office as a result of wildlife populations. [6218] recently announced reductions in public spending; what savings are expected to accrue to the Office from such Richard Benyon: When determining applications for renegotiations; how much expenditure the Office will environmental permits for incinerators the Environment incur on such renegotiations; and when such renegotiations Agency considers the effects of emissions on nearby will be completed. [3671] European Habitats Directive sites and Sites of Special Scientific Interest, having regard to the critical levels Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office, and critical loads for air pollutants relevant to the sites. in line with Office of Government Commerce policy, In doing so it takes advice from Natural England or the uses contracts and frameworks negotiated by other Countryside Council for Wales as appropriate. Government Departments. Any renegotiations of these contracts will be conducted by those Departments. Details of the impacts of air pollutants on the natural environment, including information on critical loads, can be found on the Government-funded Air Pollution Information System website: SCOTLAND www.apis.ac.uk Departmental Official Cars

WOMEN AND EQUALITIES Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many (a) civil servants and (b) special Departmental Official Cars advisers in his Department are entitled to the use of (i) a car with a dedicated driver, (ii) a car from the Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for Women and Government car pool and (iii) a taxi ordered through a Equalities how many (a) civil servants and (b) special departmental account. [3197] advisers in the Government Equalities Office are entitled to the use of (i) a car with a dedicated driver, David Mundell: As was the case under previous (ii) a car from the Government car pool and (iii) a taxi Governments, all civil servants and special advisers may ordered through a departmental account. [3194] use an official car or taxi in properly defined circumstances.

Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office Departmental Official Photographs (GEO) holds an account with the Government Car and Despatch Agency (GCDA) for the provision of a pool Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for car and also for a standard taxi service. Scotland how much his Department has spent on (a) Civil servants official photographs of Ministers since the formation (i) No staff are allowed a car with a dedicated driver. of the present administration. [6457] 379W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 380W

David Mundell: The Scotland Office has incurred no For the Royal Air Force, BCRs for formed units are costs on official photographs since the formation of the drawn from the rear party at the home location. Other Government. replacements are generated by Headquarters Air Command. If the replacement is required immediately and the gap is affecting operational effectiveness, a waiver to deploy without completing the required pre-deployment courses DEFENCE can be given by theatre. This has not been necessary to Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations date.

Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Health Services Defence with which private security companies his Department has contracts in Afghanistan. [5757] Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether he plans to provide residential Nick Harvey: None. accommodation for injured armed service personnel Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for with long-term care needs; and if he will make a Defence what recent representations he has received on statement. [6234] alleged human rights abuses involving private military and security companies in Afghanistan; and if he will Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has a particular responsibility to help seriously injured and make a statement. [5758] disabled service personnel, and works closely with service Dr Fox: No complaints or reports of human rights charities in discharging this responsibility. One of the abuses have been received in connection to the activities most important requirements of seriously injured service of private security companies contracted by the Ministry personnel is accommodation adapted to meet their of Defence in Afghanistan. specific personal circumstances, and the MOD provides some 1,300 adapted Service Families Accommodation Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for (SFA) which includes over 2,000 specific adaptations Defence (1) how many sorties the Nimrod MR.2 has (such as a stair-lift or walk-in shower) for either service flown in Afghanistan in each year since 2001; [6309] personnel or their dependants. Personnel will continue (2) how many sorties the Nimrod MR.2 flew in to receive medical treatment from the Defence Medical support of Operation Enduring Freedom. [6311] Services for as long as they remain in the armed forces, and ongoing welfare support is available from the chain Dr Fox: The information requested is not held centrally of command; through the Army Welfare Service; and and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. from service charities. For service personnel who are medically discharged Ammunition as a result of their injuries, and thus lose their entitlement to service accommodation, MOD welfare staff will Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for assist as necessary in liaising with local authorities Defence what assessment he has made of the suitability regarding provision of suitably-adapted local authority of the M855A1 enhanced performance rounds for use or private housing. Further, the Service Personnel with the various SA-80 variants. [6308] Command Paper in 2008 stated that MOD would assist Nick Harvey: While we have no plans to assess the service personnel who wished to purchase their adapted M855A1 for use with SA-80 variants, we are conducting SFA. Service personnel injured in service now have their a research and development programme on enhanced lump sum compensation payments disregarded for purposes performance rounds for future weapons system. This of the capital means test for the affordable homes includes the consideration of rounds with similar design schemes in England and Wales and can have them characteristics to the M855A1. disregarded in Scotland. This will help ensure that the most seriously injured Armed Conflict: Casualties can benefit from those schemes to get on to the housing ladder. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what process is followed for the nomination Armed Forces: Housing and preparation of battle casualty replacements. [6416] Dr Fox [holding answer 6 July 2010]: The requirement Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for for battle casualty replacements (BCRs) is identified by Defence what steps he plans to take to improve the the Permanent Joint Headquarters. The processes for standard of armed forces accommodation. [6752] generating BCRs, once this requirement has been confirmed, differ between the three single Services. For Army and Mr Robathan: We will look at whether there is scope Royal Marine units BCRs are drawn from a nominated to refurbish armed forces’ accommodation from efficiencies cohort based in the Unit’s rear party at the home within the Department. location. This cohort will have been selected and trained at the same time as the deploying Unit and will be up to Defence date on their core military skills. The exceptions to this are for some pinch point trades, where personnel are Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for usually pulled forward from the next Brigade in line to Defence when he expects to publish the full terms of deploy; and senior officer replacements, which are generated reference of the Strategic Defence and Security Review. by the relevant headquarters. [6240] 381W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 382W

Mr Letwin: I have been asked to reply. Met Office: Private Sector Work has commenced on the Strategic Defence and Security Review announced in the Queen’s Speech on Mr Arbuthnot: To ask the Secretary of State for the 25 May 2010. The review will outline the Government’s Defence whether he (a) has had and (b) plans to have approach to tackling the broad range of national security discussions with representatives of private sector risks and will ensure that we have the right balance of businesses on the future of the Met Office. [6571] resources to meet our commitments. Recent speeches by the Foreign Secretary, Defence Secretary and Minister Mr Robathan: The Secretary of State for Defence has for Security at the Home Office provide greater detail not met and has no current plans to meet representatives on the scope. We expect to publish the outcomes of the from the private weather sector to discuss the future of review in the autumn. the Met Office. Departmental Buildings Piracy John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many separate buildings his Department Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for occupies in (a) London and (b) elsewhere in the UK. Defence what the Royal Navy’s role is in tackling [6892] piracy; and if he will make a statement. [5824]

Mr Robathan: Built assets can vary in nature between Nick Harvey: The Royal Navy plays a leading role in working, living and technical structures, and other international coalition counter-piracy operations off installations of various types. While the majority of the coast of Somalia. This includes the regular provision these assets are separate buildings, an exact breakdown of naval assets to operations that seek to deter and can be provided only at disproportionate cost. disrupt pirate activity while reassuring the shipping Our Defence Estate Development Plan and property industry by supporting freedom of navigation for vessels database identifies over 500 sites in the UK, comprising transiting the region. over 64,000 separate built assets. Included within this The Royal Navy can take robust action to come to figure are over 1,100 built assets on 20 sites in the the aid of a victim vessel under attack by pirates in Greater London area. international waters cognisant of the potential threat to The London buildings include three office buildings the lives of innocents on board. and this number will reduce to one by 2013. It is however recognised that military intervention In addition, there are 41,000 Service family homes in alone cannot solve piracy, when the root cause is instability England and Wales that are rented from Annington and poor governance in Somalia. Royal Navy vessels Homes Ltd, of which 788 are located in the London continue to build relationships with key regional boroughs. The Department currently rents 1,245 substitute stakeholders, while encouraging capacity building and single service living accommodation properties and improving the flow of information. 41 substitute service family accommodation properties in the inner London boroughs. Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department has contributed to Departmental Manpower the international force tasked with reducing piracy around the coast of Somalia in each of the last three Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for years. [6790] Defence how many staff worked in his Department’s ministerial support office on (a) 1 May 2010 and (b) Nick Harvey: Since 2002 the Royal Navy has been 1 July 2010. [6153] conducting maritime security operations in the Gulf region, including around the coast of Somalia, as part Dr Fox: There are seven members of staff in the of a US-led coalition—the Combined Maritime Forces ministerial support unit. This number has not changed (Combined Task Force 151). Following a sharp increase since 1 May 2010. in piracy levels in 2008, a separate task force was Departmental Official Photographs created in January 2009 to focus on the deterrence of piracy in partnership with other counter piracy initiatives. The UK provides the Deputy Commander to the operation, Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for based within the UK Maritime Component Command Defence how much his Department has spent on in Bahrain, and periodically allocates a frigate and official photographs of Ministers since the formation tanker as operational priorities dictate. of the present administration. [6447] In December 2008, the EU established operation Mr Robathan: All official portrait photographs of the ATALANTA to protect World Food Programme and new Defence Ministers were taken by Ministry of Defence other vulnerable shipping transiting through the Gulf (MOD) photographers. These images were used to feature of Aden. The UK has provided the Operation Commander new Ministers on internal and external online and Operation Headquarters at Northwood since its communications. No additional costs were incurred in inception and will continue to do so until the end of the producing or distributing these digital images. Hard mandate, which has recently been extended to December copy photographs were produced for display boards in 2012. MOD’s main building using our in-house reprographics The UK also provided a frigate for the first three and graphics section. The costs of materials involved in months of the operation and will provide a warship for producing these hard copy photographs was £72. a period in 2011. 383W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 384W

In July 2009, NATO set up a complementary operation, All expenditure was incurred in accordance with the Ocean Shield, which is primarily focused on deterring principles of Managing Public Money and the Treasury and disrupting pirate activity. To date, the UK has handbook on Regularity and Propriety. provided a frigate for a large part of this operation, including taking command between June to November Fuel Poverty 2009 and March to July 2010. The UK also provides the NATO Maritime Component Command at Northwood. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Finally, the UK provides support on an ad hoc basis Energy and Climate Change whether he has made a to all three counter piracy operations as military assets recent assessment of the level of fuel poverty among transit through the region. This has included warships, cancer patients. [6744] support vessels, and the enduring delivery of shipping advice and reassurance to the merchant community through the UK Maritime Trade Organisation. Gregory Barker: The detailed information as to how many people with a cancer diagnosis are living in fuel poverty is not available. People with a cancer diagnosis Submarines are classified as long term sick and the detailed tables of the Annual Report on Fuel Poverty Statistics 2009, Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for available online at: Defence how many submarines were detected during http://www.decc.gov.uk/Media/viewfile.ashx?FilePath =Statistics Anti-submarine Warfare Exercise Noble Manta 2010 \fuelpovei1y\l_20091020153255_e_@@_fuelpoverty by maritime patrol aircraft type from each 2007detai1edtables.pdf&filetype =4&minwidth=true participating NATO nation. [6306] show that in England in 2007, the latest year for which figures are available, there were around 1.1 million fuel Nick Harvey: During Exercise Noble Manta 2010, poor households containing somebody who was disabled UK participants flew 12 sorties and detected submarines or long-term sick. on numerous occasions. Details cannot be released as such disclosure could compromise future UK anti submarine warfare capabilities. It would be inappropriate Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for to comment on the other participating nations’ activities. Energy and Climate Change whether vulnerable cancer patients will be eligible for the proposed mandatory social tariffs for fuel bills; and if he will make a UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with statement. [6745] Disabilities Gregory Barker: We intend to introduce social price Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for support to replace the existing voluntary agreement Defence if he will withdraw the reservation made by his when it ends in March 2011. Department to the United Nations Convention on the We are developing the detail of the policy, including Rights of Persons with Disabilities. [5574] who will be eligible for benefits under the scheme, and the final details will be subject to the outcome of the Mr Robathan [holding answer 5 July 2010]: There are spending review and consultation. no plans to withdraw the reservation made by the Ministry of Defence to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The continuing Green Investment Bank need for the armed forces’ exemption was confirmed when Parliament considered the Equality Act 2010 and Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State I refer the hon. Member to the answer that I gave him for Energy and Climate Change what his timetable is on 14 June 2010, Official Report, column 251W. for the creation of a green investment bank. [6509]

Gregory Barker [holding answer 7 July 2010]: Following the Spending Review, the Government will put forward ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE detailed proposals on the creation of a Green Investment Bank to help the UK meet the low-carbon investment Departmental Public Expenditure challenge. A wide range of ambitious options for the scope and structure of the Green Investment Bank are Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for under consideration. Energy and Climate Change how much was spent on (a) refreshments and (b) furnishings in his private Renewable Energy: Heating office in each year from 2005 to 2010. [5621] Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and Energy and Climate Change whether his Department Climate Change was formed on 3 October 2008. plans to implement the Renewable Heat Incentive Information on how much was spent on refreshments Scheme in April 2011. [7264] is not held centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Gregory Barker: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer The cost of furnishing the newly created Ministerial I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks Private Offices in 2009 was £21,596.22. A further £395.48 (Michael Fallon) on 15 June 2010, Official Report, has been spent on furnishings in 2010. column 367-68W. 385W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 386W

Windows: Energy HOME DEPARTMENT British Nationality Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the of the amount of heat energy lost through windows Home Department (1) how many people in (a) Weaver which are not energy efficient in the latest period for Vale constituency, (b) Cheshire, (c) the North West and (d) the UK were refused British citizenship in each which figures are available. [6288] year since 1997; [6220] (2) how many people in (a) Weaver Vale Gregory Barker: The most recent data from the English constituency, (b) Cheshire, (c) the North West and (d) House Condition Survey shows that in 2007, 67% of the UK were granted British citizenship in each year homes had full double glazing and 11% had no double since 1997. [6226] glazing, with the remainder part double glazed. Moving a typical home from no double glazing to full C-rated Damian Green: UK Border Agency (Immigration double glazing would save 430 kgCO2 per year and save Group) does not capture details of applications for the household £85 per year. British citizenship by parliamentary constituency. The following table provides details of citizenship applications granted and refused since 1997. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Citizenship ceremonies were introduced in January Energy and Climate Change what assessment has been 2004. From this date onwards applicants’ post codes made of the merits of including energy efficient were mapped to their local authority to enable the local windows in measures to be introduced under the Green authority to invite successful applicants to attend a Deal. [6289] citizenship ceremony.Consequently information is available for the north-west and Cheshire from 2004 onwards. Gregory Barker: A key principle of the Green Deal is The information relating to the north-west and Cheshire that measures delivered will provide an energy bill saving has been provided from local management information and that this saving, when considered over its lifetime, and is not a National Statistic. As such it should be will be large enough to cover the cost of the measure. treated as provisional and therefore subject to change. Some energy efficient windows meet this criteria and Totals for the UK have been taken from the 2009 would fit well within the Green Deal. Home Office Statistical Bulletin.

Nationality grants and refusals of British citizenship in the North West 1997 to 2009 Granted Refused Total for the Total for the north- Total for the Total for the UK Total for the north-west Cheshire Total for the UK west Cheshire

1997 37,010 — — 4,745 — — 1998 53,935 — — 3,750 — — 1999 54,900 — — 3,995 — — 2000 82,210 — — 6,785 — — 2001 90,280 — — 9,530 — — 2002 120,120 — — 8,330 — — 2003 130,535 — — 10,555 — — 2004 148,275 3,750 180 13,820 315 10 2005 161,700 7,565 290 16,640 830 25 2006 154,020 8,265 365 15,310 740 20 2007 164,635 9,285 405 15,630 760 20 2008 129,375 8,905 330 9,085 520 15 2009 203,790 16,235 610 10,250 865 20 Notes: 1. Figures have been rounded to the nearest five. 2. Citizenship ceremonies were introduced January 2004, this is when the applicants’ postcodes were mapped to their nearest local authority. 3. In 2009 Cheshire county council was split into east and west Cheshire. 4. We cannot report on constituencies. 5. The total for the UK figures have been taken from the 2009 Home Office Statistical Bulletin. Source: Local management information provided by UKBA, North West Region Planning and MI Team

Crime The Government intend to review how crime statistics are collected and published so that we can have the fullest confidence that the information is comprehensive Mr Straw: To ask the Secretary of State for the and accurate. Home Department what assessment she has made of Departmental Offices trends in levels of crime since 1981. [6359] John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: I refer the right hon. Member to Home Department if she will take steps to relocate the answer given on 29 June 2010, Official Report, officials working in her Department from central column 508W. London to Bassetlaw. [6557] 387W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 388W

Nick Herbert: Currently there are no plans to relocate Damian Green: The Latest information published by officials from the Home Office in London to Bassetlaw. the Ministry for Justice shows that on 31 March 2010, there were 11,400 foreign nationals in prison. This Entry Clearances includes those held under the Immigration Act 1971 (including those in the removal centres of Dover, Hasler and Lindholme) as well as those held on remand or Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the serving custodial sentences. Home Department how many people have been (a) granted and (b) refused entry clearance into the UK in In order to confirm how many of those have no right each year since 1997. [6460] of abode in the UK would require cross referencing individual records between the National Offender Damian Green: The total number of people who have Management Service and the UK Border Agency, which been (a) granted and (b) refused entry clearance in would incur a disproportionate cost. each of the financial years from 2001-02 to 2008-09 can However, I can advise that a proportion of the foreign be found in the published annual Entry Clearance Statistics nationals in prison have a right to be in the United on our website: Kingdom either as an EEA national, or through another www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas form of Leave for example Indefinite Leave to Remain or having been granted asylum. The UK Border Agency Reliable statistics for previous years is not available. will seek to revoke leave in order remove individuals The number of people granted and refused entry who meet the criteria for deportation which is set out in clearance in FY 2009-10 was 2,015,670 and 444,622, the following paragraphs. 1 respectively . The UK Border Agency seeks to deport from the 1 This information is based on Management Information and as United Kingdom foreign nationals offenders who meet such has not been quality assured. It is provisional and subject to the following criteria: change. A court recommendation. Entry Clearances: Overseas Students For non-European economic area nationals. A custodial sentence of 12 months or more either in one sentence, or as an aggregate of two or three sentences over a period of five years or a custodial Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the sentence of any length for a drug offence (an offence other than Home Department whether a cost-benefit analysis to possession only). the UK economy of the presence of overseas students For EEA nationals: a custodial sentence of 12 months or more who obtain visas to study at English language schools for an offence involving drugs, violent or sexual crimes or a will be included in her Department’s review of the custodial sentence of 24 months or more for other offences points-based immigration system. [6492] United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Damian Green: As the Home Secretary has indicated, the Government will be reviewing the non-economic Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for the immigration routes with a view to bringing forward Home Department what discussions she has had with proposals in due course. I intend to undertake a thorough the Secretary-General of the United Nations on the evaluation of the student system, including English departure of Antonia Maria Costa from the position language schools. The aim of that work will be to of Executive Director of the United Nations Office on ensure that the right balance is struck between providing Drugs and Crime. [6546] a user-friendly route for bona fide students and education providers and keeping out those who would seek to James Brokenshire: Neither I, nor my right hon. abuse the student system. The work will also take into Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and account the Government’s overall objective to reduce Commonwealth Affairs, have had discussions with the net migration to the tens of thousands by the end of the Secretary-General on this subject. The UK supports the parliamentary term. Secretary-General in making appointments based on merit to senior UN positions. Police: Greater London

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Home Department what recent discussions she has had Afghanistan: Religious Freedom with the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis on the reform of policing in London. [6239] Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Nick Herbert: We have had a number of discussions and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department with the Commissioner on policing issues and will is taking to ensure that freedom of religion is upheld in continue to do so. Afghanistan. [6914] Alistair Burt: The Government strongly support the Prisoners: Foreign Nationals right to freedom of religion or belief. We are working to support all individuals who face discrimination and David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for persecution on the basis of religion, wherever they are the Home Department what proportion of prisoners in the world. Article 2 of the Afghan constitution are foreign nationals with no right of abode in the UK. provides for freedom of religion, and we expect the [6393] Afghan Government to fully implement this. We have a 389W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 390W regular dialogue with the Afghan Government on human C-582/08 Commission v. United Kingdom rights, including the need to ensure the security of all An application for a declaration that by denying recovery of Afghans, regardless of religion. In addition, we will also input tax in respect of certain transactions carried out by taxable raise particular cases of concern with the Afghan persons not established in the territory of the EC, the United Government as necessary. Kingdom has failed to comply with its obligations under Articles 169, 170 and 171 of Council Directive 2006/112/EC on the common system of value added tax and with Article 2(1) of Departmental Equality the 13th VAT Directive 86/560/EEC on the harmonization of the laws of the member states relating to turnover taxes. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for C-301/10 Commission v. United Kingdom Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his An application to declare that the UK has failed to ensure that Department has spent (a) in total and (b) on staff appropriate collecting systems have been put in place in Whitburn costs on promoting equality and diversity in each of and London (to Beckton and Crossness waste water treatment the last three years for which figures are available; and works) in violation of Articles 3(1) and (2) and Annex I.A of how many people are employed by his Department for Directive 91/271 /EC on Urban Waste Water, and failed to ensure that appropriate treatment is provided with respect to urban this purpose. [5916] waste waters from London (at Beckton, Crossness and Mogden) in violation of Article 4(1) and (3), 10 and Annex I(B) of the Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s directive. (FCO) work to promote diversity and equality is designed to increase performance and productivity across the European External Action Service organisation of over 14,000 staff globally.It has contributed to our high staff survey scores compared with civil Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for service benchmarks for leadership and staff commitment Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his most (″engagement″). recent estimate is of the likely cost to the public purse The data for the FCO’s Diversity Strategy Unit and of the establishment of the European External Action main related training initiatives for the last three financial Service. [5417] years are in the table. These include spending on a global training initiative “Making the Most of Difference”, Mr Lidington: The Commission’s amending budget for which most costs fell in financial year 2008-09. no. 6 to the General Budget proposes an additional ¤9,521,362 (£8,079,828) for the European External Action Staff (full- Service (EEAS) in both commitment and payment time appropriations this year. The UK’s gross national income Spending (£) Staff costs (£) equivalent) share of EU budget financing in 2010 is currently 2007-08 699,360 294,258 5 estimated at 13.8%. The pre-abatement cost to the UK of this proposal in 2010 would be roughly ¤1,313,948 2008-09 1,545,150 242,277 6 (£1,115,016). 2009-10 406,262 268,377 6 The text of the Decision to establish the EEAS which Diversity and equality considerations are factored was given political agreement by the Council in April into a wide range of aspects of the FCO’s work as an makes clear that the establishment of the EEAS should employer, as a provider of services to British people be guided by the principle of cost-efficiency aiming around the world and in the development and delivery towards budget neutrality. of aspects of foreign policy. The figures in the table do not include spending and staff time on all these activities, Kenya: Foreign Relations for which data are not held centrally, nor on the costs of individual reasonable adjustments for officers with a Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign disability under the Disability Discrimination Act. and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had with the Kenyan government since his EU Law: Fines appointment; and what his most recent assessment is of the state of UK-Kenya relations. [6201]

Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Bellingham: The Government have good relations for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs in what with the Government of Kenya. Our two countries are outstanding cases the UK is being pursued in the bound together by deep historical ties and people to European Court of Justice over non-implementation of people links. We work closely together on trade, tourism EU legislative obligations. [6301] and defence, and in tackling regional and international security issues. The UK is also one of the largest Mr Lidington: Non-implementation only infractions bilateral aid donors to Kenya. concern cases where the UK has completely failed to I met the Kenyan Prime Minister on 28 May, along implement a directive by the transposition deadline. with my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for There are presently no cases outstanding against the International Development (Mr O’Brien), following his UK in respect of non-implementation only of its EU earlier meeting with my right hon. Friend the Prime obligations. Minister. These meetings reaffirmed the importance of However, there are cases where there is a dispute as to the UK-Kenya partnership on a range of shared interests, whether the United Kingdom has correctly implemented and the UK’s commitment to supporting the reform its EU obligations and they are referred to as “incorrect agenda pursued by Kenya to ensure the country’s future implementation” infractions. There are presently two stability and prosperity. I praised progress on Kenya’s such cases. constitutional review ahead of the August referendum, 391W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 392W and reiterated UK support in areas such as constitutional, National Affordable Housing Programme: House building starts electoral and police reform. I encouraged strong leadership Sponsor LA from Prime Minister Odinga and President Kibaki to name 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 combat corruption and impunity, including by those Barking and 262 184 199 442 286 who perpetrated the post-election violence of 2007-08. Dagenham The UK was saddened to hear of the attacks that Barnet 166 449 288 402 633 place in Nairobi on 13 June at a constitutional rally. In a Bexley 190 163 250 123 345 public statement following the attacks, I said that we Brent 297 540 377 357 568 condemned any such acts of violence, and would stand Bromley 159 268 190 273 391 with Kenya in fighting such destructive acts. I look Camden 198 429 229 130 377 forward to visiting Kenya soon. Croydon 581 505 740 505 436 Ealing 384 408 265 575 288 Mehmet Haberal Enfield 161 396 147 537 555 Greenwich 337 515 720 1,127 439 Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Hackney 563 988 502 625 1,145 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Hammersmith 203 824 233 139 130 and Fulham reports he has received on the imprisonment of Professor Mehmet Haberal in Turkey; and if he will Haringey 352 602 332 451 280 Harrow 104 73 294 251 370 make a statement. [4312] Havering 155 303 215 203 275 Hillingdon 278 223 357 384 327 Mr Lidington: We understand that Professor Haberal Hounslow 515 735 553 342 70 is detained as a suspect in the ongoing Ergenekon investigation. It is not our practice to comment on Islington 223 613 772 66 335 Kensington 1622295236 ongoing legal cases in Turkey. It is for the Turkish and Chelsea courts to assess the evidence against individuals. The Kingston 122 54 9 64 36 EU expects Turkey, as a country negotiating to become upon Thames a member, to uphold European standards throughout Lambeth 642 508 570 742 320 the investigation and any subsequent trial. We will Lewisham 231 193 205 353 946 continue to follow developments closely. Merton 186 360 53 43 134 Newham 809 1,038 914 292 1,639 Redbridge 179 372 209 116 104 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Richmond 42 233 58 5 86 upon Thames Affordable Housing: Construction Southwark 383 544 214 653 979 Sutton 211 132 93 59 286 Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Tower 752 1,412 1,609 1,192 2,347 Communities and Local Government how many Hamlets affordable homes have been completed in the London Waltham 157 244 191 425 442 borough of (a) Richmond, (b) Barnet and (c) Forest Hillingdon in each year since 2005. [6099] Wandsworth 271 306 45 185 145 Westminster 238 272 319 226 164 Andrew Stunell: The information requested up to and Total 9,352 13,948 11,174 11,382 15,114 including 2008-09 is published in Live Table 1008 on the Source: Communities and Local Government website. The table, Homes and Communities Agency which includes both new-build completions as well as The Homes and Communities Agency’s corporate acquisitions, can be found at the following link. plan set targets for delivery over 2009-10 and 2010-11 http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ for affordable housing starts on site: housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/ http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/public/documents/ affordablehousingsupply/livetables/ HCA_Corporate%20Plan_English.pdf The next CLG Affordable Housing statistical release Performance in 2009-10 will be reported in the HCA’s containing figures for 2009-10 is scheduled to be published annual report and accounts, due to be published shortly. in the autumn. Given the severe financial pressures targets for 2010-11 will be reviewed in the light of the final budgets for this Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities year. Decisions on future levels of funding for the and Local Government how many affordable housing provision of new affordable housing will be made in the starts there were in each London local authority in each spending review. year since 2005-06; and how many are projected for (a) 2010-11, (b) 2011-12 and (c) 2012-13. [6910] Capital Gains Tax Andrew Stunell: Information showing affordable housing starts under the National Affordable Housing Programme Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for in each London local authority since 2005-06 is provided Communities and Local Government what assessment in the following table. Information on housing starts is he has made of the likely effect on the buy-to-let recorded on the basis of when the grant is claimed housing market of proposals to (a) reform housing which may differ from when the house building has benefit and (b) increase the level of capital gains tax. commenced. [6382] 393W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 394W

Andrew Stunell: The Department for Work and Pensions The following table shows the number of households undertakes an assessment of the impact of benefit reported by the London borough of Tower Hamlets in changes on specific groups as part of the policy development temporary accommodation arranged by the authority, process. DWP will publish a formal impact assessment as at 31 March each year since 2005. in due course. Households in temporary accommodation arranged by the local authority as HM Treasury estimates that the likely effect on the reported by Tower Hamlets on 31 March each year, 2005-10 buy-to-let sector of increasing the rate of Capital Gains Number Tax will be small. 2005 2,948 2006 2,652 Council Housing: Tower Hamlets 2007 2,540 2008 1— Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009 2,423 Communities and Local Government how many 2010 1,899 people in the London borough of Tower Hamlets were 1 Data not reported Source: in temporary accommodation in each year since 2005. CLG P1E Homelessness returns (quarterly) [6515] Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stunell: Under homelessness legislation, local Communities and Local Government how much gap authorities have a duty to provide temporary funding his Department and its predecessors has made accommodation to those households accepted as owed available to support each stock transfer in Tower the main homelessness duty, pending inquiries or review, Hamlets since 1997. [6516] and those who were found to be intentionally homeless but are being accommodated for such a period as would Andrew Stunell: The following table sets out the gap give them a reasonable opportunity to find accommodation funding payments that have been made to support stock for themselves. transfers in Tower Hamlets since 1997.

£ million Stock transfer scheme 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Poplar HARCA [Leopold Estate] 0.862 1.750 0.275 3.714 3.088 Bethnal Green and Victoria Park [Sheltered] 0.369 1.018 1.902 — — East End Homes Ltd [St. Georges] 0.185 0.734 0.754 — — Tower Hamlets Community Housing Ltd [Mansford /Norton] 0.250 1.284 1.239 0.988 — Swan Housing Association Limited [Exmouth] — 0.580 1.577 3.321 — Poplar HARCA [Devons Estate] — 0.175 0.880 3.113 1.918 Spitalfields HA [Dinmont] — — 0.340 0.705 0.426 Eastend Homes [Glamis] — — 0.100 0.453 0.478 Poplar HARCA [East India] — — — 3.000 1.735 PoplarHARCA[CoventryCross] ————0.581 Total 1.666 5.541 7.066 15.294 8.226

Departmental Public Expenditure As a result the Chief Secretary to the Treasury announced on 5 July that four Departments had worked with the Treasury to cancel £1.5 billion of commitments that John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for relied upon access to the Reserve and EYF, of which Communities and Local Government pursuant to the £220 million was from the commitments the previous written ministerial statement of 5 July 2010, Official Government made to the Department for Communities Report, columns 1-2WS, on public spending control and Local Government for access to EYF in 2010-11. and the £1.5 billion of cancelled government commitments Moreover given public sector borrowing in 2010-11 was this year as a result of restrictions on departmental forecast to hit £167 billion such levels of spending on access to end year flexibility (EYF) and the reserve, ’borrowed money’ was unsustainable—contributing to what proportion of the £220 million reduction in his the forecast £1.4 trillion of public debt by 2014. Department’s programmes is a result of restricted EYF. [6949] John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Grant Shapps: The Government identified inherited written ministerial statement of 5 July 2010, Official spending plans where funding was reliant on underspending Report, columns 1-2WS, on public spending control, across Government though the End Year Flexibility what programmes will be reduced this year to make up (EYF) system or additional funding from the Reserve. the cancelled £220 million commitments in his However, it was highly unrealistic to expect that Department; and by how much each of them will be underspending would have been sufficient to cover all reduced. [6950] these commitments. There is insufficient contingency in the Reserve to cover the remainder. Therefore, without Grant Shapps: The Government remain strongly urgent action, the difference would result in higher committed to reducing the United Kingdom’s budget borrowing this year. deficit and the announcement by the Chief Secretary on 395W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 396W the 5 July confirmed that the Department has agreed to Housing Benefit a £220 million reduction in its claim for End Year Flexibility this year. We have therefore been able to Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for confirm £390 million of End Year Flexibility this year, Communities and Local Government if he will assess alongside the £170 million announced on 24 May, for the adequacy of the resources allocated to local the provision of new social housing and other housing authorities for the purposes of rehousing tenants who priorities. are found to be under-occupying social housing as a This guarantee of £560 million of funding will enable consequence of implementation of his proposals for the Homes and Community Agency (HCA) to meet all changes to housing benefit. [5904] existing contractual commitments and will be able to Andrew Stunell: Many social landlords already provide progress some of those programmes that have been support and incentives to tenants who wish to move to paused while the funding position was under review. smaller properties. The national home-swap scheme The HCA’s regional offices will be assessing which which we intend to introduce will provide further assistance. other schemes can be progressed. Moreover given public sector borrowing in 2010-11 was forecast to hit £167 billion Housing: Construction such levels of spending on ‘borrowed money’ was unsustainable—contributing to the forecast £1.4 trillion Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for of public debt by 2014. Communities and Local Government how many housing construction starts there were in London in each year since 2000; and how many of these were for affordable Green Belt homes in each such year. [6100] Andrew Stunell: Quarterly Statistics on the number of Graham Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for new housing construction starts in London are shown Communities and Local Government if he will bring in live table 217 on the Communities and Local Government forward legislative proposals to provide further powers website and annual statistics are shown in live table 231. for planning enforcement action to be taken in relation These tables can be found at the following link. These to unauthorised construction on green belt land. [6228] figures are split into private, Registered Social Landlord (RSL) and local authority tenure so an estimate of how Robert Neill: The Government are committed to the many of these starts can be obtained by summing the protection of the green belt. We are also working on RSL and local authority starts. proposals to strengthen the powers that are available to http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ local planning authorities to enforce against breaches housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/housebuilding/livetables/ of planning control, in line with our ideas in the Conservative Green Paper on planning, “Open Source More accurate and detailed statistics on the annual Planning”, the principles of which have been set out in supply (completions) of affordable housing in London, the coalition agreement. including both new-build completions and acquisitions, are shown in live table 1000 which can be found at the following link. Housing and Planning Delivery Grant http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/affordablehousing supply/ livetables/ Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State The next CLG Affordable Housing statistical release for Communities and Local Government what criteria containing figures for 2009-10 is scheduled to be published he used in deciding to end the housing and planning in the autumn of 2010. delivery grant. [6063] Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stunell: The Government have made clear Communities and Local Government (1) how many that their most urgent priority is to tackle the UK’s housing starts there were in each London borough in record deficit in order to restore confidence in our each year since 2005; [6908] economy and support the recovery. On Monday 24 (2) how many housing starts are projected for (a) May, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Chief Secretary 2010-11, (b) 2011-12 and (c) 2012-13 in each London to the Treasury announced the first step in tackling the local authority area. [6909] deficit, setting out how the Government intend to save over £6 billion from spending in 2010-11. Included in Andrew Stunell: Annual statistics for previous years that savings package was an expectation that savings of on the number of new housing starts in London are over £1 billion would be delivered by local government. shown in live table 253 on the Communities and Local The intention of HPDG was to act as an incentive to Government. This table can be found at the following local authorities to bring forward housing and prepare link. the ground for increased delivery. However, there has http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ been a sustained shortfall in housing development resulting housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/housebuilding/livetables in the lowest level of house building in England since The Department does not publish projections for 1946. HPDG has proved an ineffective and excessively house building. complex incentive. The coalition agreement set out that The Greater London Authority produces the London the Government will provide incentives for local authorities Plan that includes trajectories of projected housing to deliver sustainable development, including for new supply in London homes and businesses and these will be set out in due http://www.london.gov.uk/shaping-london/london-plan/docs/ course. london-plan.pdf 397W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 398W

Infrastructure Planning Commission £ 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether the Total 2,860,300 5,059,222 4,951,770 abolition of the Infrastructure Planning Commission Staff 1— 1,502,590 1,368,261 will result in redundancies. [6133] 1 Not available. The Equality and Human Rights Group was re-organised Greg Clark: We are currently designing how the into three teams in 2009. Expressed as full-time equivalents, Major Infrastructure Planning Unit will be constituted at 5 July 2010 there are 18 civil servants working in within the Planning Inspectorate but I expect that the these three teams. At any one time, secondees from the majority of existing staff from the Infrastructure Planning national health service and elsewhere are also recruited Commission will move into the new unit. for their knowledge and skills. I have asked the chief executives of both the Infrastructure Planning Commission and The Planning Departmental Photographs Inspectorate to work up detailed proposals to identify the most cost effective way to integrate the Major Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Infrastructure Planning Unit into The Planning Health how much his Department has spent on official Inspectorate. photographs of Ministers since the formation of the The staffing of the Major Infrastructure Planning present administration. [6439] Unit within The Planning Inspectorate will vary according to the number of cases it is considering, but I would Mr Simon Burns: Since the formation of the Government, expect that the new arrangements will save taxpayers the Department has spent £537.43 on official photographs money compared to maintaining two separate bodies. of Ministers.

Tenant Services Authority Departmental Training

Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for and Local Government what the (a) timetable, (b) Health what training has been provided for Ministers terms of reference and (c) format of the review of the in his Department since the formation of the present administration; and at what cost. [6438] facilities of the Tenant Services Authority are. [6389]

Grant Shapps: The Government are reviewing the Mr Simon Burns: Two Ministers have attended the role and purpose of the Tenant Services Authority and National School of Government’s Learning and the framework for social housing regulation, in line Development for Ministers course, at no cost to the with our commitment to reduce the number of quangos Department. and cut unnecessary regulation. The review will conclude Dietary Supplements: EC Law as quickly as possible. Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) when Ministers from his Department last HEALTH met representatives of the food supplements industry to discuss the setting of maximum permitted levels Departmental Conferences under Article 5 of the Food Supplements Directive; [6518] Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what steps he has taken to communicate to the Health what estimate he has made of his Department’s European Commission the Government’s policy on the expenditure on (a) organisation of and (b) attendance setting of maximum permitted levels for vitamins and at conferences in each year since 1997. [6115] minerals in food supplements under Article 5 of the Food Supplements Directive to the European Mr Simon Burns: Expenditure on organisation of Commission. [6519] and attendance at conferences in each year since 1997 is not easily available in the Department. It could be Anne Milton: Since this Government was formed, obtained only at disproportionate cost. there have been no meetings between the Department’s Ministers and representatives of the food supplements Departmental Equality industry to discuss the setting of maximum permitted levels under article 5 of the food supplements directive. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for I have written to and met with the European Health how much his Department has spent (a) in Commissioner for Health and Consumer Policy to discuss total and (b) on staff costs on promoting equality and the setting of maximum permitted levels for vitamins diversity in each of the last three years for which and minerals in food supplements. figures are available; and how many people are employed by his Department for this purpose. [5912] Direct Payments

Mr Simon Burns: From 2006-07 to 2008-09, the actual Jessica Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for Health spending of the Equality and Human Rights Group of what options will be available to patients for the receipt the Department was as follows: of payments under the Direct Payment Scheme. [6660] 399W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 400W

Mr Burstow: Under the personal health budget pilot arrangements for public and patient engagement, including programme, individuals either have a bank account to local authorities being further strengthened; receive payment or are given a pre-paid card. Most pilot greater clarity about the clinical evidence bases underpinning sites plan to offer one method of payment but some proposals; and may decide to offer a choice of these two payment proposals taking into account the need to develop and support options. patient choice. If individuals already receive social care direct payments Local NHS organisations must ensure their plans or other similar funds, such as money from the independent meet these criteria before continuing with planned service living fund, they may use the same bank account for changes. their direct payment for healthcare. Otherwise, a separate bank account will need to be set up to ensure the money Epilepsy is kept separate from the person’s other resources. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Doctors: Foreign Workers Health what estimate his Department has made of the (a) prevalence and (b) costs to the NHS of epilepsy Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for misdiagnosis. [6469] Health what assessment he has made for benchmarking purposes of the level of training received by doctors Mr Burstow: Independent academic research has who have trained in a non-EU member state and estimated the misdiagnosis rates at around 23% with an subsequently registered within the EU in comparison estimated annual cost to the national health service, for with that received by doctors who were trained in the England and Wales, of up to £138 million. UK. [6064] It is the responsibility of local health bodies to ensure that health professionals follow the guidelines for the Anne Milton: The assessment of qualifications of diagnosis and treatment of epilepsy. The National non-European Union clinicians wishing to work in the Framework for Long-term neurological Conditions national health service is the responsibility of the General recognises the particular challenge of diagnosing some Medical Council (GMC). neurological conditions, and recommends a specialist The GMC is the United Kingdom competent authority assessment in line with national guidelines. The National with responsibility for assessing whether clinicians trained Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence recommends outside of the European economic area or Switzerland that all people having a first seizure should be seen as possess the relevant qualifications (along with the soon as possible by a specialist in the management of knowledge, skills and experience) necessary for practising the epilepsies to ensure precise and early diagnosis and in the UK—whether within the NHS or the private initiation of therapy as appropriate to their needs. The sector. Department has made no estimates of the prevalence More information about the process for applying to and costs to the NHS of epilepsy misdiagnosis. the GMC and the recognition of international qualifications is available at: EU Law www.gmc-uk.org/information_for_you/ unregistered_doctors.asp Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will estimate the cost to his Department of Drugs: Research compliance with regulations arising from EU obligations in the last 12 months. [6881] Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health with reference to paragraph 3.21 of the White Paper, Anne Milton: The information required can be obtained Pharmacy in England: Building on Strengths—Delivering only at disproportionate cost. the Future, when he plans to publish the research on medicines which are not used; and if he will make a General Practitioners statement. [6474] Mr Bailey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Simon Burns: We have received the final research what information his Department has on the number of report and we are carefully considering its findings, GP appointments for patients with minor ailments in which we will make public soon. the latest period for which figures are available. [6364]

Enfield NHS Trust: Finance Mr Simon Burns: This information is not held centrally. Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for Health General Practitioners: Mental Health Services if he will take steps to ensure that any changes to the provision of front line services at (a) Chase Farm Glenda Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Hospital and (b) other NHS organisations for the Health whether there will be separate GP purposes of reducing the deficit of Enfield NHS Trust commissioning boards for the provision of mental do not influence the outcome of the local GP-led health services; and if he will make a statement. [6485] consultation on the future of healthcare services in Enfield. [6837] Mr Simon Burns: The “Coalition: our programme for government” document confirms this Government’s Mr Simon Burns: My right hon. Friend the Secretary intention to strengthen the power of GPs as patients’ of State has outlined new criteria that he expects decisions expert guides through the health system by enabling on national health service changes to meet: them to commission care on their behalf. We will bring support from general practitioner commissioners; forward more detailed proposals in due course. 401W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 402W

Hospital Wards: Gender NHS: Foreign Workers

Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many medical staff registered in another Health if he will take steps to end the use of mixed-sex EU member state are practising in (a) independent accommodation in NHS facilities. [5869] sector treatment sectors and (b) NHS hospitals. [5884]

Mr Simon Burns: The revised operating framework Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold for the NHS in England 2010-111 reiterates our commitment information on the number of medical staff registered to eliminating mixed sex accommodation, except where in another European Union member state who are it is clearly in the overall best interests of the patient. practising in independent sector treatment centres (ISTCs) As resources allow, we will increase the proportion of or national health service hospitals. single rooms in the national health service. We will However, the NHS Information Centre (IC) collects review existing sanctions with a view to strengthening data concerning the country of qualification of NHS them if necessary, and we will ensure that information medical staff in England. The NHS Workforce Census about same-sex accommodation is made available to 2009, published by the IC, shows that 6,485 medical patients and the public - so that they can make informed practitioners, working in England at September 2009, choices about their place of treatment. qualified within the remainder of the European Economic Note: Area. (This is the most recent published information available.) 1 Published by Department of Health, June 2010. A copy has already been placed in the Library. NHS: Standards Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Multiple Sclerosis: Drugs Health pursuant to the answer of 29 June 2010, Official Report, column 698 on NHS targets, on what indicators he plans to concentrate in order to manage Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Health waiting times; and if he will make a statement. [6795] what assessment he has made of the merits of updating the clinical guidelines for multiple sclerosis to permit Mr Simon Burns: Accountability to patients and greater the use of Sativex. [6847] information transparency, through patient choice and the move towards general practitioner-led commissioning, Mr Burstow: This matter is the sole responsibility of should make long waits unacceptable. the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence To ensure patients do not experience undue delay at (NICE). They issued a clinical guideline on the management any stage of their treatment we will continue to publish of multiple sclerosis in primary and secondary care in and monitor hospital waiting times. GPs and commissioners November 2003, and are expected to review this guideline of health services can use this information locally to in November 2010. We therefore, have made no assessment ensure that they can continue to improve access to of the merits of updating the clinical guidelines for services for their patients. This change will empower multiple sclerosis. patients and clinicians putting them at the heart of decision-making, with a focus on quality and outcomes, Sativex is now licensed as an add-on treatment for not processes. moderate to severe spasticity in people who have not gained adequate relief of symptoms from one or more The right “to access services within maximum waiting oral medicines, or have experienced unbearable side times, or for the national health service to take all effects while taking these medicines. reasonable steps to offer you a range of alternative providers if this is not possible” remains in the NHS constitution. NHS: Finance Commissioners should also continue to enforce the clauses related to waiting times within NHS standard contracts and will want to ensure that any flexibility to Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health improve access reflects local clinical priorities. if he will ring-fence (a) NHS funding and (b) budgets in other areas of public expenditure to reduce health Nurses inequality; and if he will make a statement. [6800] Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent assessment he has made of the (a) Mr Simon Burns: The coalition agreement commits clinical and (b) cost effectiveness of the use of to increases in health spending in real terms in each year specialist nurses. [6470] of the Parliament enabling the national health service to plan for the future with more certainty. Anne Milton: I refer the hon. Member to the written Local directors of public health will be given control answer I gave her on 22 June 2010, Official Report, over ring-fenced public health budgets, to provide a column 174W. strong local strategy and leadership for improving their Stomach Cancer population’s health and provide dedicated finance for reductions in avoidable ill health and health inequality. Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Final departmental spending plans will be announced how many individual funding requests his Department in the spending review in the autumn. has (a) received and (b) accepted for the use of 403W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 404W

Herceptin in the treatment of gastric cancer; and what Mr Davey: I intend to publish a consultation later the average time was between receipt of such a request this month on our commitment to reinstate an Operating and a decision on that request. [5133] and Financial Review to ensure that directors’ social and environmental duties have to be covered in company Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health reporting and investigate further ways of improving and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is currently appraising corporate accountability and transparency. trastuzumab (Herceptin) for the treatment of gastric cancer (advanced HER-2 positive) and published its Apprentices: Environment Protection draft guidance for consultation on 6 July 2010. In the absence of final guidance from NICE, it is for Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for primary care trusts to make decisions on the funding of Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has had treatments. Information on the number and timing of discussions with the (a) Secretary of State for Energy such decisions is not collected centrally. and Climate Change and (b) Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on the contribution Strokes: Health Services that green apprenticeships could make to (i) the economy and (ii) tackling climate change; and if he will make a Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health statement. [5355] if he will take steps to improve the research-based evidence and guidance on the costs and benefits of Mr Hayes: We are committed to increasing the number clinical and other support for longer-term stroke care. of genuine, high-quality, employer-owned Apprenticeships [5887] across all sectors, and are working with Sector Skills Councils to ensure that Apprenticeship frameworks Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health meet the needs of the real economy. High quality training and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is currently developing opportunities like Apprenticeships are key to supporting a clinical guideline on stroke rehabilitation for use in the this country’s growth and success. national health service. NICE expects to publish its We will of course want to discuss with Cabinet colleagues final guidance in April 2012. how Apprenticeships can contribute to the policies and The National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) priorities of all Departments. Officials in BIS, DECC funds a range of studies on stroke including research on and DEFRA continue to work closely in this area and longer-term care. The NIHR Health Technology on how low carbon skills development should be taken Assessment programme is currently commissioning research forward within the new freedoms and flexibilities we are on rehabilitation more than six months after a stroke. putting in place to boost the responsiveness of the skills The NIHR Collaboration for Leadership in Applied system to emerging growth sectors. Health Research and Care—Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire Extending Apprenticeships into new areas and embracing and Lincolnshire has a stroke rehabilitation theme aiming new technologies and emerging industries is fundamentally to increase the capacity of the stroke rehabilitation important to the very nature of Apprenticeships—we community to engage with and apply research findings. must be responsive to the changing demands of employers and industry. Sector Skills Councils are playing a lead role and collaborating over Low Carbon skills, including working with employers to design new Apprenticeship BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS frameworks.

Small Businesses: Finance Broadband

20. Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for Adam Afriyie: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps he Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking has taken to increase access to finance for small to support the roll-out next generation mobile businesses. [6700] broadband services. [4849]

21. Stephen Metcalfe: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Vaizey: The coalition Government are committed for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps he to releasing spectrum to support the next generation of has taken to increase access to finance for small mobile services. A decision on the approach will be businesses. [6702] made before the summer recess.

Mr Prisk: The coalition is committed to ensuring the Business: Government Assistance flow of credit to viable SMEs. The emergency Budget announced numerous measures: increasing the Enterprise Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for Finance Guarantee, creating the Growth Capital Fund Business, Innovation and Skills what recent steps he and Enterprise Capital Fund. has taken to increase access to finance for small businesses. [6701] Directors: Company Reporting Mr Prisk: The coalition is committed to ensuring the Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for flow of credit to viable SMEs. The emergency Budget Business, Innovation and Skills what plans he has to announced numerous measures: increasing the Enterprise ensure that directors’ social and environmental duties Finance Guarantee, creating the Growth Capital Fund are covered in company reporting. [6696] and Enterprise Capital Fund. 405W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 406W

Departmental Conferences Details of the mission to Delhi can already be found on the website. Details for the remaining missions will be Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for published online shortly. Users need to search for events Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has and missions by sector, country, region or event type. made of the expenditure of his Department and its predecessors on (a) organisation of and (b) Further Education: Regulation attendance at conferences in each year since 1997. [6122] Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation Innovation and Skills what recent representations he and Skills (BIS), and its predecessor bodies which remain has received from (a) further education colleges and within the BIS boundary, has spent the following amounts (b) other training providers on the implications for on conferences since 2003-04, which is the earliest date their operation of the regulatory framework applying for which figures are available. to them. [5882]

£ Mr Hayes: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Minister of State for 2003-04 2,739,824 Universities and Science and I have received a number 2004-05 5,858,182 of representations from further education colleges and 2005-06 6,297,050 training organisations on issues concerning the regulatory 2006-07 3,475,252 framework. These include bi-lateral meetings with the 2007-08 1,598,334 sector representative bodies, the Association of Colleges, 2008-09 4,646,532 157 Group and the Association of Learning Providers, 2009-10 3,287,471 as well as issues raised during our visits to colleges. The BIS accounting system does not disaggregate the On 17 June, I wrote to Members of Parliament, figures between the organisation of and attendance at colleges and training organisations informing them of a conferences and such details could be obtained only at number of measures that will be taken to meet the disproportionate cost. coalition Government’s commitment to set colleges free from direct state control, helping the providers of further Departmental Speeches education to focus on meeting the demands of employers and learners in their areas. We are considering what Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for further restrictions should be removed and will take the Business, Innovation and Skills which (a) (i) civil earliest opportunity to make any necessary changes in servants and (ii) special advisers in his Department and legislation. (b) other individuals are employed to write speeches for each Minister in his Department. [7305] Higher Education and Student Finance Independent Review Mr Davey: The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) currently has four civil servants writing speeches and articles for six Ministers, a team which Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for includes Stephen Adams who writes for my right hon. Business, Innovation and Skills how many times the Friend the Secretary of State. The Department’s three Minister of State for Universities has (a) met, (b) special advisers contribute to speeches among other spoken on the telephone and (c) corresponded with duties when required. Policy officials regularly provide Lord Browne about his review of higher education briefing which can include drafting for parliamentary funding and student finance. [2956] speeches. Mr Willetts: Since my appointment, my right hon. Environment Protection Friend the Secretary of State and I have had one meeting with Lord Browne, to discuss the Independent Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Review of Higher Education Funding and Student Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Finance. of 29 June 2010, Official Report, column 535W, on environment protection, what forthcoming UK Trade Insolvency Service: Standards and Investment trade missions will focus on low carbon business opportunities. [6923] Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: UK Trade & Investment trade missions Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has focusing on low carbon business opportunities include made of the effectiveness of the Insolvency Service in a sustainable cities mission to China in September; a investigating offences relating to company insolvencies; mission to the Delhi International Renewable Energy and if he will make a statement. [6690] Conference in October; a mission to FIMAI, an environment show, in Brazil in November; and a clean-tech Mr Davey: The Insolvency Service is highly effective mission to the US west coast in February. in investigating corporate misconduct and disqualifying Information about missions planned for this financial directors. Last year, 1,388 directors were disqualified year are published on the UK Trade & Investment for an average of 6.4 years. In addition, it completed website, when available: investigations into 268 live companies, which resulted in http://www.ukti.gov.uk/uktihome/eventssearch.html 251 being wound up in the public interest. 407W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 408W

Post Office: ICT Mr Willetts: The Coalition Government recognise that advances in science and technology underpin the Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for UK’s economic growth and social prosperity. The UK Business, Innovation and Skills what his most recent depends on a strong base of relevant skills, developed in estimate is of the cost to postmasters and sub- schools, colleges and universities We have recently postmasters of errors in the Horizon operating system; announced that we are enabling universities to recruit and if he will make a statement. [7533] an additional 10,000 students in 2010/11; many of these places will be in STEM subjects. Mr Davey: I have asked David Smith, the Managing This Department works closely with the Department Director of Post Office Ltd, to respond directly to the for Education to encourage students to choose science hon. Member and a copy of his reply will be placed in and engineering subjects. This Government currently the House Libraries. support initiatives such as STEMNET, the Big Bang Fair, and HEFCE’s Strategically Important and Vulnerable Public Expenditure Subjects, and National HE STEM, programmes. Working closely with employers, these improve young people’s appreciation of scientific subjects and careers. We also Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for support activities that encourage wider public engagement Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the written with the sciences. We will review these and related ministerial statement of 26 May 2010, Official Report, activities during the spending review. columns 2-3WS, on savings (2010-11), under what budgetary headings the £836 million of savings allocated to his Department will be made. [6823] Takeovers: Public Interest

Mr Davey: The following table details the reductions Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for made to the Department of Business, Innovation and Business, Innovation and Skills (1) if he will bring Skills (BIS), budget as part of the savings announcement forward measures to introduce a public interest test in of 26 May 2010. This shows a net savings figure of £634 the consideration by regulators of take-overs and million, as £200 million was recycled into apprenticeships mergers; [6313] and further education programmes. A further £2 million (2) with reference to the answer of 28 June 2010, reduction was made from UK Trade and Investment’s Official Report, column 412W, on competition, what contribution to the regional development agencies. recent assessment he has made of progress in the BIS is in the process of agreeing how the running cost takeover panel’s consultation on options for amending savings of £48 million resource and £51.3 million capital the Takeover Code in relation to a public interest test will be made across BIS and its wider family of partner for mergers and takeovers. [6328] organisations. Mr Davey: A more detailed statement about the £000 Government’s approach to the way takeovers and mergers May 2010 savings announcements Resource Capital are regulated will be included in the Government’s forthcoming response to the 6 April report by the Core BIS and partner (48,700) (51,300) Business Innovation and Skills Select Committee into organisation efficiency savings Kraft’s Acquisition of Cadbury (HC 234), which we Higher education efficiency (170,000) (30,000) will be publishing as a Command Paper shortly. I can savings package confirm the Government have no current plans to amend UK Centre for Medical — (233,000) the Enterprise Act as it relates to the scope for my right Research and Innovation (UKCRMI) hon. Friend the Secretary of State to intervene in mergers Regional development agency (5,000) (67,000) on public interest grounds. The Takeover Panel’s savings (from core BIS consultation on options for amending the Takeover funding) Code is due to close by 27 July 2010. UK vocational reform — (11,000) Small/medium business (3,000) — adjudicator service Investment in the Institute of (5,000) — TREASURY Web Science Small business research (10,000) — initiative Bank Services: Fees and Charges Train to Gain refocus (200,000) — Apprenticeships 150,000 — Ian Swales: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Further education — 50,000 if he will bring forward proposals to introduce Totals (291,700) (342,300) legislation to end unfair bank charges. [6913]

Science: Higher Education Mr Hoban: The Government have stated in the coalition agreement that Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for “we will introduce stronger consumer protections, including Business, Innovation and Skills if he will take steps to measures to end unfair bank and financial transaction charges”. encourage an increase in the number of students We are considering how best to implement this commitment studying scientific subjects at university. [6037] and will bring forward proposals in due course. 409W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 410W

Budget June 2010 are available to tackle poverty. The sunset clause attached to this legislation requires that the Government review Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the within a year whether or not to extend the Act. The Exchequer (1) if he will provide figures as in Chart A1 Chancellor of the Exchequer has not to date received of the Red Book for the impact of measures in (a) any representations from representatives of the financial 2012-13 and (b) 2013-14 using only measures as at the services sector on the implementation of the Act or its Budget of (i) March and (ii) June 2010; [6476] sunset clause provisions. (2) if he will provide figures as in Chart A2 of the Departmental Official Photographs Red Book for the impact of measures in (a) 2012-13 and (b) 2013-14 using only measures as at the Budget of (i) March and (ii) June 2010. [6477] Pete Wishart: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much his Department has spent on Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Member to the answer official photographs of Ministers since the formation given to the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract of the present administration. [6453] and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) on 1 July 2010, Official Report, column 610W. Justine Greening: There has been no spending on official photographs of Treasury Ministers since the Crown Estates formation of the Government.

Mr Knight: To ask Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer Financial Services: Regulation what the monetary value was of Crown land sold by the Crown Estate in each of the last three years for Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer which figures are available. [6464] what steps his Department plans to take to implement the recent G20 summit decisions on reform of the Justine Greening: The proceeds from sales of investment financial sector. [5893] properties (land and buildings) for the last three years was as follows: Mr Hoban: The Government strongly support the commitments made by G20 countries to strengthen £ million global financial regulation and supervision, and enhance 2008-09 231.5 international cooperation, and are committed to 2007-08 328.8 implementing these reforms in the UK. Common regulatory 2006-07 417.8 standards internationally are crucial to minimise the risks of regulatory arbitrage and the fragmentation of Debts: Developing Countries international financial markets. The UK will work through the EU to secure reforms that support and reinforce the Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the G20 regulatory reform agenda. Exchequer what representations he has received from representatives of the financial services sector on the Government Departments: Accountancy (a) implementation and (b) sunset clause provisions of the Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010. Mr Spellar: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer [6405] which Ministers provided written directions to departmental accounting officers under paragraph 5.5 Mr Hoban: The Debt Relief (Developing Countries) of the Ministerial Code in Session 2009-10; and what Act 2010 passed through Parliament in April and will matters were covered by each such instruction. [6327] mean that UK Courts of Law will no longer be used to pursue excessive claims against some of the poorest Justine Greening: The information sought is as set countries on their historic debts, ensuring that resources out in the following table.

Date Department Minister Direction Category

2009 BERR1 Lord Mandelson Icelandic Water Trawlermen VFM Scheme 2009 BERR1 Lord Mandelson Advantage West Midlands Loan VFM 2009 MOD Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth MP Repatriation Flights for UK Propriety Hostages in Iraq 2009 MOD Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth MP Repatriation Flights for UK Propriety Hostages in Iraq 2009 DEFRA Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP Dairy Farmers of Britain VFM 2009 BERR1 Lord Mandelson Leeds Arena Project VFM 2009 BERR1 Lord Mandelson Car Scrappage Scheme VFM 2009 BERR1 Lord Mandelson Car Scrappage Scheme VFM 2009 HMT Rt Hon Alastair Darling MP Asset Protection Scheme Propriety 2010 DCLG Rt Hon John Denham MP Proposals for new unitary local VFM government structures for Devon, Norfolk and Suffolk 2010 MOJ Rt Hon Jack Straw MP Pleural Plaques Regularity and VFM 411W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 412W

Date Department Minister Direction Category

2010 MOD Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth MP Basra memorial wail dedication VFM ceremony 2010 BIS Lord Mandelson North West Development VFM Agency’s funding for Blackpool Leisure Assets 2010 DCLG Rt Hon John Denham MP North West Development VFM Agency’s funding for Blackpool Leisure Assets 1 Now BIS

Income Tax: Tax Allowances Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the (a) 50th Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Chancellor of the percentile rent in 2010-11 and (b) the 30th percentile Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of rent in 2011-12 on a property of (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) people liable for income tax at the higher rate who will three, (iv) four and (v) five bedrooms in (A) Slough, (B) be net beneficiaries of his proposal to increase the Salisbury and (C) Scarborough and Whitby personal allowance and lower the level at which the constituency. [5999] higher rate of income tax is payable. [6408] Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Gauke: Budget 2010 announcements on the personal Exchequer what his estimate is of the level of (a) 50th allowance for under 65s and basic rate limit are aimed percentile rents in 2010-11 and (b) 30th percentile at ensuring that the majority of higher rate taxpayers rents in 2011-12 for (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) three, (iv) four will pay broadly the same total level of tax and national and (v) five bedroom properties in Houghton and insurance as previously planned. Sunderland South constituency. [6061] This is consistent with current estimates which suggest that around 1.9 million higher rate taxpayers may gain Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Members to the answer an average of just £5 in 2011-12. Such estimates depend given on 6 July 2010, Official Report, column 184W to on economic assumptions, in particular for inflation in the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper). September 2010. The projected small benefit arises due to differences in rounding amounts for the personal Taxation: Banks allowance and basic rate limit. Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Inheritance Tax Exchequer (1) what representations he has received from (a) the banking sector and (b) others on (i) the Caroline Flint: To ask the Chancellor of the proposed bank levy and (ii) other measures proposed Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of in the June 2010 Budget; [6321] people liable to pay inheritance tax in (a) 2010-11, (b) (2) what discussions he has had with representatives 2011-12, (c) 2012-13, (d) 2013-14, (e) 2014-15 and (f) of the banking sector on the proposed bank levy; 2015-16. [4833] [6322] (a) (b) Mr Gauke: The current forecast is that about 15,000 (3) what research he commissioned and estates left on death in 2010-11 will be liable for inheritance impact assessment he undertook in respect of the tax. This figure can be found, together with the historical proposed banking levy prior to his financial statement; numbers of taxpayers, on the HMRC website at: [6385] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_receipts/table1-4.pdf (4) what modelling his Department undertook to determine the rate at which the banking levy would be Forecast numbers of taxpayers are not available for set for (a) 2011 and (b) subsequent years; [6387] later years as they are subject to a great deal of uncertainty because of possible changes to forecasts of asset prices. (5) what criteria he used to determine the proposed level at which the banking levy would be set; [6388] Rents (6) what estimate his Department has made of the revenue which would accrue to the Exchequer if the bank levy were set at a rate of (a) 0.05, (b) 0.06, (c) Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Chancellor of the 0.08, (d) 0.09, (e) 0.10, (f) 0.11, (g) 0.12, (h) 0.13, (i) Exchequer what his estimate is of the level of (a) 50th 0.14 and (j) 0.15 per cent. in (i) 2011, (ii) 2012, (iii) percentile rents in 2010-11 and (b) 30th percentile 2013 and (iv) 2014. [6479] rents in 2011-12 for (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) three, (iv) four and (v) five bedroom properties in Makerfield constituency. [6047] Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have discussions with a wide variety of organisations in the Barbara Keeley: To ask the Chancellor of the public and private sectors as part of the process of Exchequer what his estimate is of the level of (a) 50th policy development and delivery. As was the case with percentile rents in 2010-11 and (b) 30th percentile previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s rents in 2011-12 for (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) three, (iv) four practice to provide details of all such discussions. and (v) five bedroom properties in Worsley and Eccles No external research was commissioned in respect of South constituency. [6097] the bank levy prior to the financial statement. 413W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 414W

The proposed rate reflects the risks posed by the Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the banking sector to the financial system and wider economy, Exchequer what estimate his Department has made of whilst taking account of current economic circumstances the increase in Exchequer receipts from value added tax and the UK’s competitive position. if the rate of that tax were set at (a) 18, (b) 18.5, (c) The estimated costs to the Exchequer for the bank 19, (d) 19.5, (e) 21 and (f) 22 per cent. in each of the levy are set out in the following Budget 2010 document: four years after January 2011. [6480] http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_costings.pdf Mr Gauke: Table 1.6 of HMRC’s published tax ready Page 19 of that document sets out the pre-behavioural reckoner tables, yield from the announced rates of the levy and the pre-behavioural yield would change proportionately with http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_expenditures/menu.htm changes in the rate. No quantitative estimates have been released at the time of the Budget, shows the effects of made of the differential behavioural effects of setting illustrative tax changes, including the effect of changing the levy at these other rates. the standard rate of VAT by 1 percentage point in each An impact assessment will be published alongside the of the years 2010-11 to 2012-13. Estimates of the effect forthcoming consultation document. of changing the rate by different amounts can be calculated by scaling the effect of a 1 percentage point change Taxation: Gaming Machines accordingly. This ready reckoner costing is calculated using the Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Chancellor of the same methodology as the published Budget costing of Exchequer if he will review the application of value the 20% rate. Details can be found in: added tax and amusement machine licence duty currently and retrospectively to automated lottery http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_costings.pdf machines by HM Revenue and Customs [6490]

Justine Greening: HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) LEADER OF THE HOUSE have always classed automated lottery machines as gaming EU Law machines that are subject to amusement machine licence duty with VAT chargeable on their takings. Philip Davies: To ask the Leader of the House if he The First-Tier Tribunal heard a case involving one will take steps to ensure that papers concerning legislation type of electronic lottery machine early in June and derived from EU obligations for presentation to the released its decision on 1 July that this specific product House are printed on a colour other than that generally is a gaming machine but that the takings are exempt used for copies of legislation laid before the House. from VAT. [6330] HMRC are considering the implications of this decision. Sir George Young: The format for the printing of Unemployment: South Yorkshire papers relating to legislation is a matter for the House. My hon. Friend’s proposal would not necessarily be Mr MacShane: To ask Mr Chancellor of the straightforward to implement as proposals for legislation Exchequer what estimate his Department has made of to give effect to EU obligations are often combined with the likely change to the level of unemployment in other proposals in the same legislative instrument. Where South Yorkshire in the next 24 months. [6481] a Bill gives effect to EU legislation, transposition notes included in the explanatory notes will identify the relevant Justine Greening: HM Treasury does not produce parts of the Bill. forecasts of unemployment on a sub-national basis. Labour Party: Finance VAT Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Leader of the House Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much (a) Short money, (b) Opposition Whips’ if he will publish the (a) economic modelling and (b) Office funding and (c) Policy Development Grant other impact assessments his Department used to decide funding the Labour Party will receive in 2010-11 and on the proposals for the standard rate of value added each of the subsequent two financial years. [6206] tax contained in the June 2010 Budget. [6326] Sir George Young: For 2010-11 the Labour party is Mr Gauke: The Budget’s VAT rate increase was driven entitled to £4,462,554 based on the number of seats and by the need to address the deficit, which will benefit votes received by the party at the general election. The everyone. Labour party is also entitled to £604,493 to fund the Other than Annex A of the “Red Book”, describing Office of the Leader of the Opposition, and £129,991.79 the distributional impacts of the Budget, the economic for travel. The full amount available to the Labour effects of the increase in the standard rate of VAT are party is therefore £5,197,038.79. These figures are set out in the Office for Budget Responsibility’s Budget apportioned from the date of the general election to 31 forecast at Annex C: March 2011. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexc.pdf Separate figures are not available for funding the The associated impact assessments, which describe the Opposition Whips office. compliance costs for business, were published alongside The amounts on which the formula is determined the Budget: increase on 1 April each year in line with the retail http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_impact prices index as at the previous 31 December. Future _assessments.pdf amounts will therefore depend on that figure. 415W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 416W

There is no ministerial responsibility for expenditure Electoral Systems on Policy Development Grants, which are administered by the Electoral Commission. Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what his timetable is for the introduction of measures to ensure that voters queuing at polling DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER stations at the close of the poll in general elections are able to cast their votes. [5567] Electoral Reform: Referendums Mr Harper: The Government are considering the Helen Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what Electoral Commission’s report of 20 May on the problems plans he has for the reform of regulations on campaign at polling stations at close of poll at the previous finance and expenditure by political parties in advance general election, and the Government will take any of the proposed referendum on electoral reform. [5405] appropriate steps necessary to prevent a repeat. Any changes to the rules would have to be workable and Mr Harper: The Political Parties, Elections and benefit the public. We will decide in due course whether Referendums Act 2000 sets out a detailed framework any such measures should be included in legislation for the regulation of campaign finance and expenditure later this Session. by political parties and other campaigners at a referendum and more generally. The Government are considering General Election 2010: Armed Forces whether any additions or changes to this framework are required in preparing to bring forward legislation providing Mrs Laing: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister (1) for a referendum on electoral reform. what percentage of armed forces personnel voted in the The Coalition’s programme for government also makes 2010 general election; [5529] clear our intention to pursue a detailed agreement on (2) what assessment he has made of the effectiveness limiting donations and reforming party funding in order of steps taken to expedite postal votes from service to remove big money from politics. personnel in Afghanistan during the 2010 general election. [5530] Helen Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what his policy is on the length of time between an order Mr Harper: No record is kept of the percentage of setting the date for a referendum on electoral reform armed forces personnel who vote at elections. They may and the date of the poll. [5406] register and vote as an ordinary elector, as a service elector or, where appropriate, as an overseas elector and Mr Harper: The Political Parties, Elections and therefore it is not possible to readily identify all of Referendums Act 2000 (“the 2000 Act”) provides that them. the date of a referendum can be specified in either primary or secondary legislation. From Afghanistan, over four fifths of postal ballot papers from armed forces personnel there who chose to Following the beginning of the referendum period—the vote by post as part of the specific steps taken to period during which controls apply on the spending and support them at the 2010 general election were successfully donations of those campaigning in the referendum—the received by Returning Officers. This compares favourably 2000 Act sets out certain procedures that must take with the average return rate of postal votes in general. place, the effect of which is that the date of the poll cannot be less than 10 weeks after the referendum The Government are considering the arrangements period has begun. Under the 2000 Act, campaigners for the registration and participation of armed forces have 28 days from the beginning of the referendum personnel in elections. period to apply for designation as lead campaign organisations. The Electoral Commission then has 14 days to determine which campaigners, if any, should be INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT designated. The date of the poll must be at least 28 days Departmental Lost Property after the Commission has completed the designation process. Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government will announce further details of the International Development what property has been proposal for a referendum on electoral reform, including recorded as (a) lost and (b) stolen from the details of the date of the poll and the beginning of the Department in the last 12 months; and what estimate referendum period, in due course. The Bill will specify has been made of the cost of the replacement of that the date of the referendum, which will be 5 May 2011. property. [5974]

Helen Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he Mr Duncan: The Department for International will bring forward proposals for a minimum threshold Development’s (DFID’s) central records show that during for turnout on a referendum on electoral reform in the last 12 months the following items were either lost order for its result to be valid. [5407] or stolen.

Mr Harper: The Coalition’s programme for government Total estimated makes clear that the referendum will be decided on the Item Number of items replacement cost (£) basis of a simply majority. The Government do not Laptop Computer 6 3100 purpose that a minimum turnout threshold should Ergonomic Chair 3 1,461 additionally apply in order for the referendum outcome Satellite Phone 2 1,000 to be considered valid. 417W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 418W

Departmental Official Cars June 14 in Luxemburg where EU Development Ministers agreed the EU position for the UN Millennium Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Development Goals summit. My right hon. Friend used International Development how many (a) civil this opportunity to urge EU colleagues to honour their servants and (b) special advisers in his Department are financial commitments and to focus efforts on achieving entitled to the use of (i) a car with a dedicated driver, the MDGs by 2015. (ii) a car from the Government car pool and (iii) a taxi At the EU European Council on 17 June, following ordered through a departmental account. [3200] UK lobbying at the highest level, heads of state reaffirmed EU commitments spending 0.7% of gross national income Mr Duncan: No civil servants or special advisers in (GNI) by 2015 and to discuss progress on an annual the Department for International Development (DFID) basis. are entitled to the use of a car with a dedicated driver. Nor are any entitled to use a car from the ministerial car Developing Countries: HIV Infection pool. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Civil servants and special advisers cannot use a taxi International Development what steps his Department for official business unless no other method of public is taking to achieve the Millennium Development Goal transport is available or when carrying heavy official of increasing the number of young men and women in papers or equipment. developing countries who have a thorough and The Permanent Secretary has an account with the accurate understanding of HIV. [5825] Government Car and Despatch Agency for the provision of taxi services when required. Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Development (DFID) will support actions to achieve Departmental Public Expenditure all of the MDGs, including prioritising aid spending on programmes to restrict the spread of major diseases like Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for HIV/AIDS. International Development what estimate he has made DFID works with national governments, multilateral of his Department’s expenditure on (a) organisation of agencies and civil society organisations, to develop HIV and (b) attendance at conferences in each year since awareness programmes for young people. DFID supports 1997. [6114] a range of activities which focus on the needs of young people, including: sexuality education; access to Mr Duncan: Prior to 2009-10, the Department for contraceptives; education and skills training. International Development (DFID) did not hold centrally, In the coming months DFID will be reviewing its aid complete financial information at sufficiently low level, programme to determine how we can achieve better to be able to report expenditure on the organisation of value for money for the UK taxpayer and accelerate conferences. The costs in 2009-10 were £2.7 million. progress towards all the millennium development goals, DFID does not hold a central record of the cost of including MDG 6. attendance at conferences. This information cannot be provided without incurring disproportionate costs. Equality

Developing Countries Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much his Department Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for spent (a) in total and (b) on staff costs on promoting International Development what the Government’s equality and diversity in each of the last three years for political priorities are for the Millennium Development which figures are available; and how many people are Goals Review Summit; and what measurable outcomes employed by his Department for this purpose. [5909] from that meeting he expects to achieve. [6076] Mr Duncan: In common with all Government Mr O’Brien: At the United Nations Millennium Departments, as part of the civil service equality and Development Goals Summit in September, our priority diversity agenda, the Department for International will be to reach international agreement on an action Development (DFID) is working to create a more diverse agenda to achieve the MDGs by 2015. work force at all levels, including increasing the percentage The United Kingdom sees the Summit as an opportunity of minority groups. Costs of promoting equality and for both developed and developing countries to make diversity for the last three financial years are set out in results based commitments, including on the most off the following table. track MDGs such as maternal and child health. We are Total costs Number of full clear that any such commitments must be based on (including staff Staff time equivalent quantifiable outcomes in terms of changes on the ground. costs) (£) costs1 (£) staff2

Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 213,000 115,000 3 International Development what discussions he has 2008-09 285,000 147,000 3.5 had with his EU counterparts on the renewal of earlier 2009-10 195,000 115,000 2.5 political and financial commitments at the Millennium 1 Staffing costs have been calculated using average staff cost data by Development Goals Review Summit. [6077] grade. 2 A number of staff outside the core diversity team have also allocated a proportion of their time to promoting equality and diversity issues Mr O’Brien: The Secretary of State for International across DFID. These details are not held centrally and could be Development attended the Foreign Affairs Council on provided only at disproportionate costs. 419W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 420W

India: Overseas Aid Mr O’Brien: Two years of bad harvests and uneven rains have resulted in severe food shortages across the Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Eastern Sahel region of West Africa, especially in Niger International Development how much his Department and Western Chad. In response, the UK Government spent on aid to India in (a) 2008 and (b) 2009. [6180] are supporting the treatment of over 20,000 severely malnourished children in Niger, through funding channelled Mr Duncan: The amount of bilateral assistance provided to UNICEF, Médecins sans Frontières, Save the Children to India by the Department of International Development and Action Against Hunger. We are also supporting (DFID) is published in ‘Statistics on International activities to prevent child malnutrition by targeting the Development’, which is available on DFID’s website at: food security of the most vulnerable households, including the provision of food aid to 118,000 people for three http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-DFID/Finance-and- performance/Aid-Statistics/Statistics-on-International- months; cash for work or direct payments to 20,000 Development-2009/ households; assistance to 15,000 vulnerable households In 2008-09 DFID provided £297 million in bilateral to maintain a minimum number of livestock; and provision assistance to India. The figure for 2009-10 has not yet of seeds to 81,000 households. been finalised and will be published later this year. Overseas Aid

Liberia: Overseas Aid John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much his Department Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for spent in each overseas country in 2009. [6903] International Development whether his Department plans to provide (a) financial and (b) technical Mr Duncan: Details of spending in each overseas support to Liberia to support the removal of health country in the financial year 2009-10 will be published user fees in that country. [6031] later this month in the Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) annual report, in line with the Mr O’Brien: The Department for International International Development (Reporting and Transparency) Development (DFID) is currently providing £12 million Act 2006. This publication will be placed in the Library over three years (2010-12) to the Government of Liberia of the House. to support President Johnson Sirleaf s commitment to remove health user fees and enable the provision of a Somalia: International Assistance basic package of health services (BPHS). This is being channelled through the Health Pool Fund established Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for by the Government of Liberia’s Ministry of Health and International Development how much his Department Social Welfare. spent on development aid in Somalia through (a) UN The Secretary of State for International Development agencies and (b) (i) multi-lateral and (ii) bi-lateral has recently initiated a review of DFID’s aid programmes funding channels in the last 12 months. [6798] to determine how we can achieve better value for money Mr O’Brien: The amount of bilateral assistance provided for the taxpayer and accelerate progress towards the to Somalia by the Department of International Millennium Development Goals. Future support to Development (DFID) is published in Statistics on Liberia to support health financing will be determined International Development, which is available on DFID’s as part of this review. website at: Madagascar: Forests http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-DFID/Finance-and- performance/Aid-Statistics/Statistics-on-International- Development-2009/ Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for In 2008-09 DFID provided a total of £33.5 million in International Development what recent representations bilateral aid to Somalia. This included £20.4 million he has made to the Government of Madagascar on delivered through UN agencies. measures to prevent illegal logging in that country’s In addition DFID provided an estimated £11 million rainforest. [5814] of aid to Somalia via its core support to multilateral Mr O’Brien: The Secretary of State for International agencies. Development has made no direct representations to the Somalia: Overseas Aid Government of Madagascar on this issue. The Department for International Development (DFID) contributes £28 Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for million to the EU action plan on Forest Law Enforcement, International Development how much his Department Governance and Trade (FLEGT). This works with has given in development aid to Somalia in each of the countries to improve the way forests are governed in last three years. [6789] order to prevent the illegal logging of timber. Mr O’Brien: The amount of bilateral assistance provided Niger: Malnutrition to Somalia by the Department of International Development (DFID) is published in Statistics on Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development, which is available on DFID’s International Development what steps the Government website at; are taking to reduce the risk of malnutrition among http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-DFID/Finance-and- children in Niger; and if he will make a statement. performance/Aid-Statistics/Statistics-on-International- [5823] Development-2009/ 421W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 422W

DFID provided £33.5 million in bilateral assistance JUSTICE to Somalia in 2008-09, £25.7 million in 2007-2008 and £16.6 million in 2006-07. Administration of Justice: EC action The figure for 2009-10 will be published later in July Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) in line with the International Development (Reporting what his policy is on the exercise of the UK opt-out in and Transparency) Act 2006. the policy areas of justice and home affairs which fall within his Department’s responsibility under the Lisbon Treaty; [5881] Somalia: Politics and Government (2) when a decision will be taken on whether the UK will exercise its right to opt-out of each area on justice Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for and home affairs under the Treaty of Lisbon where International Development what recent assessment he such a right exists. [6229] has made of the humanitarian situation in Somalia. Mr Kenneth Clarke: Forthcoming legislation in the [6791] area of criminal justice will be approached on a case-by-case basis, with a view to maximising our country’s security, Mr O’Brien: The United Nations Office for the protecting Britain’s civil liberties and preserving the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UN OCHA) integrity of our criminal justice system. estimates that 3.2 million Somalis or 43% of the country’s The Government will decide whether to exercise its population are currently dependent on humanitarian right to opt-out of each area on justice and home affairs assistance. 655,000 of these are in a state of humanitarian under the treaty of Lisbon where such right exists emergency. before the 2014 deadline. There are 1.4 million internally displaced people (IDPs) Asylum in Somalia, mainly due to continuing conflict. Many of the IDPs are in the Afgooye Corridor, one of the largest Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for IDP concentrations in the world with approximately Justice which organisations in the North West 366,000 IDPs. procurement area have been successful in their bids for the contract period starting 10 October 2010 to the Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Legal Services Commission; and for each such International Development what assessment he has organisation, how many and what proportion are (a) made of the effect of the outcome of the recent asylum and (b) non-asylum immigration cases. [6360] elections in Somaliland on development matters in that Mr Djanogly: The tender process for Immigration country; and if he will make a statement. [6838] Services is not yet complete and we therefore cannot provide details of the organisations that have been Mr O’Brien: The UK welcomes the presidential elections successful. The tender will conclude once all appeals in Somaliland. President-elect Silanyo has indicated have been resolved which we anticipate will be in mid that he will put development matters at the centre of his September 2010. new Government’s agenda. Once he is sworn in, the Community Service Orders Department for International Development (DFID) will discuss development priorities and plans with the David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for new Government, as well as with the private sector, civil Justice on how many occasions since his appointment society and other development agencies, in order to he has visited persons undertaking projects under identify clearly and understand Somaliland’s priority community service orders without prior notification to development needs. the Probation Service. [6395]

Mr Kenneth Clarke: Since taking office in May, I have Yemen: Overseas Aid not visited anyone undertaking any unpaid work as part of their community sentence. If I were to make such a visit, I would notify the Probation Service as a matter of Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for course. International Development what priorities he has set for his Department’s future funding to Yemen. [6797] Crime: Prison Officers

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Duncan: We cannot ignore Yemen, a fragile state Justice if he will conduct an investigation into with a rapidly deteriorating economy and instability on corruption among prison officers. [6312] the rise. The Department for International Development (DFID) has committed £50 million in 2010-11 to help Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management Service prevent State failure. (NOMS) has made a robust commitment towards detecting, The Secretary of State for International Development removing and preventing all forms of corruption in has commissioned a review of DFID’s aid programmes partnership with the police. to determine how we can achieve better value for money A dedicated NOMS Corruption Prevention Unit works for the taxpayer and accelerate progress towards the with Regional Corruption Prevention Managers and Millennium Development Goals. Future support to the front line and partner agencies to raise staff awareness, Yemen will be determined as part of this review. develop an understanding of the extent and nature of 423W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 424W staff corruption in prisons and related HQ functions Departmental Lost Property and where practicable, to prosecute identified instances of corrupt behaviour. Each prison has an identified Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for Local Corruption Prevention Manager with responsibility Justice what property has been recorded as (a) lost and for raising awareness of the risks from corruption, (b) stolen from the Department in the last 12 months; helping staff in reporting and taking forward action and what estimate has been made of the cost of the including working with the police in support of prosecution. replacement of that property. [5961] A joint memorandum of understanding was agreed between ACPO and NOMS in October 2008 and gives Mr Kenneth Clarke: With the exception of HM Prison the primacy for investigating and prosecuting individual Service, details of individual cases of lost and stolen cases of staff corruption to the police. NOMS also uses property are held at a local level across the Department. internal disciplinary proceedings to take action, up to Incidents relating to theft or loss of IT equipment are and including dismissal, of any member of staff who is reportable to the central security team and there were found to be involved in corrupt activities where there is 232 such security incidents for the financial year of insufficient evidence to support police prosecution. 2009-10 and are detailed as follows:

Types of affected IT equipment Departmental Conferences lost/stolen Number of incidents PC 13 Laptop 78 Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Blackberry 23 Justice what estimate he has made of expenditure by Encryption tokens 104 his Department on (a) organisation of and (b) Removable electronic media (e.g. 14 attendance at conferences in each year since its CDs or USBs) creation. [6117] To determine which of these losses relate to theft and Mr Kenneth Clarke: Expenditure since the inception to estimate a replacement cost would involve a review of of the Ministry of Justice for headquarters and its four individual local records which would incur disproportionate Executive agencies—the National Offender Management cost. Service (NOMS), Her Majesty’s Court Service (HMCS), Separate records are kept by Her Majesty’s Prison the Tribunals Service and the Office of the Public Service (HMPS), which is part of the National Offender Guardian—is as follows: Management Service agency. For this period the value of lost or stolen property was £256,779. This comprises: Financial period £000 lost or stolen items: 988 losses at a total value of £122,880 of which 987 losses were from prison stores at a value of £122,820; 2009-101 5,943 loss of personal property for which compensation was paid to 2008-09 5,875 prisoners, staff or third parties; 2,126 payments at a total of 2007-08 4,257 £133,899. 1 Figures for 2009-10 are unaudited and are subject to change. These figures are currently unaudited. The 2007-08 and 2008-09 figures are from the Ministry’s accounting systems which captures expenditure under Human Rights “conferences and events”and “conferences and exhibitions” classifications. The 2009-10 figures are sourced from the David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Ministry’s new procurement system which records Justice how many people were convicted of an offence “conferences”separately. The 2009-10 figures are therefore within two years of receiving a community order in the not directly comparable between years. last 12 months for which figures are available. [6392] The amounts above exclude expenditure incurred locally by the 35 local probation trusts within NOMS as Mr Blunt: Reoffending data are based on offences this information is held locally and could be collated committed within one year of an offender commencing only at disproportionate cost. a court order under probation supervision. Reoffending It is not possible to distinguish the costs of organising data covering time periods longer than one year are not conferences from the costs of attending conferences collated. without incurring the disproportionate costs of examining Table 1 shows the number of adult offenders who all of the individual records that make up the amounts commenced a court order under probation supervision above and other expenditure categories where costs may between 1 January to 31 March 2008, and the reoffending have been charged, for example catering. Where the rate. This table also contains a breakdown of the number Ministry of Justice has organised conferences, the costs of offenders who commenced a community order, and a of staff time are not separately recorded. suspended sentence order. With respect to the attendance at conferences, it is Table 1: Number of offenders who commenced a court order under probation supervision between 1 January to 31 March 2008, and the reoffending rate possible that additional related costs may have been Proportion of offenders incurred for travel and subsistence where this was not Number of offenders who reoffended covered by the overall amount charged for conference attendance. These additional amounts could be determined Court Orders under 37,619 36.1 probation supervision only at disproportionate cost by manual examination of Community Orders 27,504 36.8 thousands of records held locally. 425W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 426W

Table 1: Number of offenders who commenced a court order under probation Members: Correspondence supervision between 1 January to 31 March 2008, and the reoffending rate Proportion of offenders Number of offenders who reoffended Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice when he expects to reply to the letter dated 20 Suspended Sentence 9,875 34.3 Orders May 2010 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Scott Kelly. [6340] Further information on adult reoffending is available at: Mr Kenneth Clarke: I replied to the right hon. Member http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ on 5 July 2010. I am sorry for the delay in responding to reoffendingofadults.htm him.

Human Rights Parricide and Matricide

Mr Straw: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) whether the Commission on a British Bill of Rights how many convictions for offences related to (a) will consider the merits of repealing the Human Rights parricide and (b) matricide there were in the UK in Act 1998; [6354] each of the last five years. [6282] (2) whether he plans to bring forward proposals for Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice does not hold the United Kingdom to withdraw from the European centrally details of whether the offender was related to Convention on Human Rights. [6355] the victim other than where the offence is specified separately in law. It is therefore not possible to identify Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government will make a from convictions for murder or manslaughter those statement to Parliament on the terms of reference of specifically of parricide or matricide. the Commission on a Bill of Rights in due course. The Government have however made clear that any Bill of Available information given in the table is from the Rights must incorporate and build on all our obligations Home Office’s Homicide Index and relates to the number under the European convention on human rights and of homicides where a victim was the parent of the ensure that these rights continue to be enshrined in UK principal suspect and the principal suspect was convicted law. of murder, section 2 manslaughter (diminished responsibility) or other manslaughter. The data reflect the position as at 24 November 2009, when recording Legal Aid Scheme: Marriage closed down for the purpose of analysis, and will change as subsequent court hearings take place or other information Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for is received. Data can be provided only for cases initially Justice (1) how many people received legal aid in recorded as homicide by police during 2007-08 and respect of divorce proceedings in the last 12 months for 2008-09; prior to this the ‘parent’ relationship category which figures are available; [6347] also included the relationship ‘step-parent’. (2) how much the Legal Services Commission spent Information for Scotland and Northern Ireland is on legal aid in respect of divorce proceedings in the last within the remit of the Scottish Government and Northern 12 months for which figures are available. [6348] Ireland Office respectively. Currently recorded homicides1 where the victim’s relationship to principal suspect was parent2 and the principal suspect was convicted of homicide3: England and Mr Djanogly: Legal aid in divorce matters can be Wales, 2007-08 and 2008-094 provided under two categories: legal help, for advice Year4 and assistance in both contested and uncontested petitions, Victim and, separately, civil representation carried out under a gender Homicide conviction 2007-08 2008-09 legal aid certificate for contested divorce petitions that Male Murder 2 1 may require representation at court. The following table Sec 2 manslaughter 1 2 shows the number of publicly-funded divorce matters that were completed under legal help and civil Other manslaughter 2 0 representation, together with the value of the claims for Male victim total 5 3 the year ending 31 May 2010. It is possible for matters funded under legal help to progress to certificated work. Female Murder 3 1 The claim value for legal help also includes ancillary Sec 2 manslaughter 2 3 divorce matters, such as, for example, financial provision Other manslaughter 0 1 and matters involving children where such help is provided. Female victim total 5 5 It is not possible to disaggregate from these cases the 1 As at 24 November 2009; figures are subject to revision as cases are dealt with amounts claimed for divorce only. However, the figures by police or by the courts, or as further information becomes available. for civil representation do not include ancillary matters, 2 Prior to 2007-08 the ‘parent’ relationship category also included ‘step-parent’. and therefore do relate only to divorce. 3 Includes convictions for murder, section 2 manslaughter (diminished responsibility) and other manslaughter. 4 Offences are shown according to the year in which they were initially recorded Closed case value (£ by police as homicide. This is not necessarily the year in which the offence took Closed case volume million) place or the year in which any court proceedings took place. Source: Legal help 89,406 24.9 Home Office’s Homicide Index database. Based upon headline figures in table Civil representation 115 0.5 1.05 of’ “Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2008-09” (Home Office Statistical Bulletin 01/10) 427W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 428W

Photographs Mr Blunt: Our most recent information on the proportion of prisoners in receipt of benefit payments in the 12 Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for months prior to reception into custody is derived from Justice how much his Department has spent on official the Survey of Prisoner Crime Reduction, which is yet to photographs of Ministers since the formation of the be finalised and published. Our provisional estimate is present administration. [6451] between 61% and 66% of prisoners. Rape: Disclosure of Information Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) has not spent any money on official portraits of Ministers since the formation of the present administration. All official Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for portraits are taken by members of the MoJ’s in-house Justice pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for graphic design team at no extra cost to the taxpayer. Warrington North of 17 June 2010, Official Report, column 189W, on rape: defendants anonymity, what progress has been made by his Department’s Director Prison Sentences of Analytical Services in compiling the available research and statistics on the number of false allegations in rape Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for cases; and how soon before the summer recess his Justice how many prisoners serving indeterminate Department expects to publish the report of that research. sentences for public protection are in jail after the end [6497] of the tariff period. [5813] Mr Blunt: The director of analytical services in the Mr Blunt: The number of people detained post tariff Ministry of Justice is currently compiling a report which and serving indeterminate sentences of imprisonment will collate available research and statistics relating both for public protection (IPP) or detention for public protection to false allegations of rape and to other relevant issues. (DPP) on 5 July 2010 was 2,860, of which 100 were The Ministry of Justice plans to publish the report, detained in secure hospitals. This includes those released following external peer-review, during the week commencing on licence and subsequently recalled to custody. The 26 July. figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Reoffenders The figures were taken from the Public Protection David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Unit Database (PPUD) in the National Offender Justice what evidence he (a) commissioned and (b) Management Service, and, as with any large scale recording evaluated in formulating his policy on the effectiveness system, it is subject to possible errors arising from either of community sentences for certain groups of data entry or processing. The PPUD is a live database, offenders. [6394] updated on a regular basis. As a result, snapshots taken Mr Blunt: Published statistics show that offenders in consecutive days will contain differences reflecting subject to court orders under probation supervision the most updates. have a lower reoffending rate than those sentenced to custody. Some of this effect may be because offenders Prisoners’ Release discharged from prison have characteristics associated with a higher rate of reoffending, such as more previous Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for convictions. But some may be due to the fact that Justice what plans he has for the future of the offenders on community sentences are taking part in automatic early release from prison scheme. [6600] programmes which promote rehabilitation and because they have not been taken away from their homes, jobs Mr Blunt: The End of Custody Licence (ECL) scheme and communities. was withdrawn with effect from 12 March and this Government have no plans to re-introduce it. CABINET OFFICE Prisoners: Health Services Departmental Official Cars David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how much the Prison Service spent on prisoner Mr Bain: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office healthcare in the last 12 months for which figures are which Ministers in his Department have used an available. [6391] allocated ministerial car to travel between the Department and the House of Commons on each day Mr Blunt: The Department of Health is responsible since 21 May 2010. [5540] for healthcare in public-sector prisons and holds the budget. The Prison Service does not hold figures for Mr Maude: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I prisoner healthcare expenditure. gave on 28 June 2010, Official Report, column 446W. All travel is undertaken in accordance with the Ministerial Code. Where possible, Ministers walk or cycle. Prisoners: Social Security Benefits Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Office pursuant to the answer of 30 June 2010, Official Justice what estimate he has made of the proportion of Report, column 563W, on departmental official cars, in prisoners admitted in the last 12 months who derived what circumstances a (a) civil servant and (b) special their only legitimate income from benefit payments. adviser may use a (i) taxi and (ii) car from the Government [6496] car pool; and on how many occasions (A) civil servants 429W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 430W and (B) special advisers in his Department have made Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the use of those services since 12 May 2010. [6806] responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Mr Maude: The use of official cars and taxis by civil servants, including special advisers, is governed by the Letter from Stephen Penneck: requirements of the Civil Service Management Code. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Information on the number of occasions civil servants have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking have made use of taxis or cars from the Government car how many and what proportion of (a) UK nationals, (b) UK-born pool could be provided only at disproportionate cost. people, (c) foreign nationals, (d) non-UK EU nationals and (e) non-EU nationals (i) aged over 16 years and (ii) of working age Employment were in employment in the UK in each of the last four quarters for which figures are available; and what the percentage change in each category was in each of the last 16 quarters. (5172) Mr Clappison: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many and what proportion of (a) UK The information requested is shown in the attached table. The nationals, (b) UK-born people, (c) foreign nationals, estimates are derived from the Labour Force Survey. As with any (d) non-UK EU nationals and (e) non-EU nationals sample survey, estimates from the LFS are subject to a margin of (i) aged over 16 years and (ii) of working age were in uncertainty. This is described in a footnote to the table. employment in the UK in each of the last four quarters The figures in the table are derived from the LFS microdata for which figures are available; and what the percentage which are weighted using the official population estimates published change in each category was in each of the last 16 in autumn 2009. These estimates are consistent with the figures quarters. [5172] published in the monthly Labour Market Statistical Bulletin.

Employment levels and rates for people aged over 16 years in employment1,2 by nationality and country of birth—Three months ending March, June, September and December, 2006 to 2010,United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Thousands and percentage Aged over 16 years Annual % Annual % change Annual % change Foreign change in UK nationals Rate in level UK born Rate in level Nationals Rate level

2006 Q2 26,881 61 — 25,556 61 — 2,009 57 — 2006 Q3 27,023 61 — 25,729 61 — 2,074 57 — 2006 Q4 26,915 61 — 25,606 61 — 2,066 56 —

2007 Q1 26,946 61 — 25,620 60 — 2,019 62 — 2007 Q2 27,208 61 1 25,614 60 0 2,141 63 7 2007 Q3 27,259 61 1 25,815 60 0 2,150 64 4 2007 Q4 27,259 61 1 25,867 60 1 2,206 63 7

2008 Q1 27,120 61 1 25,737 60 0 2,286 64 13 2008 Q2 27,140 61 0 25,734 60 0 2,299 64 7 2008 Q3 27,174 61 0 25,771 60 0 2,318 64 8 2008 Q4 27,026 60 -1 25,585 60 -1 2,377 64 8

2009 Q1 26,741 60 -1 25,283 59 -2 2,347 64 3 2009 Q2 26,526 59 -2 25,095 58 -2 2,303 62 0 2009 Q3 26,732 59 -2 25,308 59 -2 2,262 64 -2 2009 Q4 26,691 59 -1 25,259 59 -1 2,288 63 -4

2010 Q14 26,487 59 *-1 25,039 59 *-1 2,254 61 *-4

Thousands and percentage Aged over 16 years Non-UK EU nationals Rate Annual % change in level Non-EU nationals Rate Annual % change in level

2006 Q2 732 64 — 1,144 61 — 2006 Q3 775 65 — 1,183 62 — 2006 Q4 855 66 — 1,154 60 —

2007 Q1 922 68 — 1,098 57 — 2007 Q2 989 69 35 1,153 59 1 2007 Q3 990 70 28 1,159 59 -2 2007 Q4 1,028 70 20 1,178 58 2

2008 Q1 1,085 70 18 1,201 59 9 2008 Q2 1,082 70 9 1,218 70 6 2008 Q3 1,067 70 8 1,250 60 8 431W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 432W

Thousands and percentage Aged over 16 years Non-UK EU nationals Rate Annual % change in level Non-EU nationals Rate Annual % change in level

2008 Q4 1,074 69 4 1,303 61 11

2009 Q1 1,118 70 3 1,229 60 2 2009 Q2 1,104 69 2 1,199 57 -2 2009 Q3 1,083 70 1 1,179 59 -6 2009 Q4 1,069 68 0 1,219 58 -6

2010 Q14 1,075 68 *-4 1,179 57 *-4

Employment levels and rates for people of working age3 in employment1,2 by nationality and country of birth—Three months ending March, June, September and December, 2006 to 2010, United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Thousands and percentage Working age3 Annual % Annual % Annual % UK change in change in Foreign change in nationals Rate level UK born Rate level Nationals Rate level

2006 Q2 25,938 75 0 24,670 75 — 1,946 67 — 2006 Q3 26,084 75 0 24,848 76 — 2,008 67 — 2006 Q4 25,989 75 0 24,742 76 — 1,946 65 —

2007 Q1 25,791 75 — 24,527 75 — 1,977 62 — 2007 Q2 25,782 75 -1 24,507 75 -1 2,101 68 8 2007 Q3 26,014 75 0 24,686 76 -1 2,111 69 5 2007 Q4 26,036 76 0 24,706 76 0 2,171 68 12

2008 Q1 25,849 75 0 24,528 75 0 2,250 69 14 2008 Q2 25,882 75 0 24,507 75 0 2,261 69 8 2008 Q3 25,898 75 0 24,552 76 -1 2,274 69 8 2008 Q4 25,725 75 -1 24,528 76 -1 2,302 68 6

2009 Q1 25,431 74 -2 24,043 74 -2 2,334 70 4 2009 Q2 25,201 73 -3 23,849 73 -3 2,256 67 0 2009 Q3 25,387 73 -2 24,043 74 -2 2,200 68 -3 2009 Q4 25,325 73 -2 23,974 74 -2 2,242 67 -3

2010 Q14 25,102 72 *-1 23,731 73 *-1 2,207 66 *-5

Thousands and percentage Working age3 Non-UK EU Annual % change in Annual % change in nationals Rate level Non-EU nationals Rate level

2006 Q2 712 76 — 1,126 64 — 2006 Q3 753 77 — 1,162 65 — 2006 Q4 828 77 — 1,137 63 —

2007 Q1 897 77 — 1,080 60 — 2007 Q2 968 77 36 1,133 59 1 2007 Q3 968 78 29 1,143 62 -2 2007 Q4 1,009 79 22 1,162 61 2

2008 Q1 1,066 79 19 1,184 62 10 2008 Q2 1,062 79 10 1,199 62 6 2008 Q3 1,043 79 8 1,231 63 8 2008 Q4 1,049 78 4 1,284 64 10

2009 Q1 1,094 78 3 1,208 62 2 2009 Q2 1,075 77 1 1,180 60 -2 2009 Q3 1,052 77 1 1,159 62 -6 2009 Q4 1,045 76 0 1,197 61 -7 433W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 434W

Thousands and percentage Working age3 Non-UK EU Annual % change in Annual % change in nationals Rate level Non-EU nationals Rate level

2010 Q14 1,052 75 *-4 1,155 60 *-4 1 Includes self-employed and unpaid family workers. 2 Excludes those whose nationality was not known. 3 Men aged 16-64 and women aged 16-59. 4 Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an indication of the quality of the estimates, as described below: Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5% we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. Key: *0≤ CV<5%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered precise ** 5 ≤ CV <10%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered reasonably precise *** 10 ≤ CV <20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered acceptable **** CV ≥ 20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes CV = Coefficient of Variation Note: It should be noted that the above estimates exclude people in most types of communal establishment (e.g. hotels, boarding houses, hostels mobile home sites etc.). Source: Labour Force Survey.

Government Departments: Databases Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Mr David Davis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what definition of the word reshaping in section Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2010: 3.4(i) of his Department’s Structural Reform Plan he As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I uses in the context of changes to the ContactPoint and have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking how many lone parents there are in Newcastle Upon Tyne identity card databases. [6788] North constituency in 2009/10. (6739) The number and type of families in the UK can be estimated Mr Maude: The use of the word reshaping in the using the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates are provided Cabinet Office Structural Reform Plan reflects the two for lone parent families which include at least one child aged specific programmes in question ContactPoint and ID under 16. cards. I have used the Cambridge English Dictionary The latest available figure is for 2008 and is shown in the table definition of reshaping—to shape something again or below. This is based on the 2008 parliamentary constituency differently. boundary. Newcastle Upon Tyne North, as constituted in 2008, consisted of 13 electoral wards, four more than the current In the case of ID cards, the closure of the programme constituency. The breakdown of the data available is not sufficiently has been announced and the process of closure is now detailed to determine” whether the newly constituted parliamentary under way. We have already announced the early release constituency contains the same estimated number of lone parents of 70 temporary staff in Durham as part of this process. as the 2008 constituency. We have made clear our intention to end ContactPoint Number of lone parent families with at as soon as is practicable and are considering developing Geographical area least one child under 16 (thousand) a new service aimed at supporting vulnerable children. We recognise that significant investment has already Newcastle upon Tyne North 3 been made in developing ContactPoint and the constituency (2008) infrastructure that supports it. Therefore, we will seek Source: to make the most appropriate use of that investment APS January to December 2008. when considering a new approach. Ministerial Policy Advisers: Redundancy Pay

Government Departments: Internet Pete Wishart: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the cost has been of severance payments made to special advisers from each Department made Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet redundant at the general election. [5982] Office if he will place a copy in the Library of his Department’s report on the usability, cost and quality Mr Maude: The information requested is currently of Government websites. [5678] being collected, and will be published in due course.

Mr Hurd: A copy has been placed in the Libraries of the House. WORK AND PENSIONS Lone Parents: Newcastle upon Tyne Employment Schemes: West Midlands

Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Minister for the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Cabinet Office how many lone parents there were in for Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to Newcastle Upon Tyne North constituency in 2009-10. reduce the level of unemployment in (a) the west [6739] midlands and (b) Coventry. [6802] 435W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 436W

Chris Grayling: The Government have set out a number Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for of major welfare to work reforms, including a core Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number integrated Work Programme and a number of measures of social sector tenants in Makerfield constituency designed to support people to find employment. These whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from measures are designed to help in the Government’s key their current levels in each year from 2011-12 to aims of fighting poverty, supporting the most vulnerable 2014-15; what his estimate is of the average weekly and helping people break the cycle of benefit dependency, reduction in benefit of such people; what estimate has and will be introduced at a national level. been made of the effects of such reductions on the The Work Programme, which we aim to introduce by local authority’s housing revenue; and what assessment summer 2011, will be an integrated package of personalised has been made of the effect of the reductions on new support providing help for people who find themselves build in the social sector. [6045] out of work. This support will be made available on the Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for basis of need rather than on the benefit claimed. The Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number Work Programme will be delivered by contractors drawn of social sector tenants in Houghton and Sunderland from the private, public and voluntary sectors. We will South constituency whose housing benefit payments offer them stronger incentives to work with the harder will be reduced from their current levels in each year to help, paying delivery partners out of the additional from 2011-12 to 2014-15; what his estimate is of the benefits they realise as a result of placing people into work. average reduction in benefit of such people; what Alongside the core Work Programme, a series of estimate has been made of the effects of such individual support measures will be introduced to Get reductions on the local authority’s housing revenue; Britain Working such as: and what assessment has been made of the effect of the Work for Yourself, giving access to business mentors and reductions on new build in the social sector. [6059] start-up loans; Work Clubs, to give unemployed people a place to share skills Barbara Keeley: To ask the Secretary of State for and experiences; Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number Service Academies, which will offer specialised pre-employment of social sector tenants in Worsley and Eccles South training and work placements; and constituency whose housing benefit payments will be Work Together, to encourage and facilitate volunteering. reduced from their current levels in each year from Further support is also being planned for young 2011-12 to 2014-15; what his estimate is of the average people, including work experience opportunities with reduction in benefit of such people; what estimate has small businesses and sole traders, more apprenticeships been made of the effects of such reductions on the and more further education places. local authority’s housing revenue; and what assessment Until the Work Programme is implemented, the has been made of the effect of the reductions on new Government will ensure appropriate support is in place. build in the social sector. [6095] Housing Benefit Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of social sector tenants in (a) Glasgow North and (b) and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of Ealing Central and Acton constituency whose housing social sector tenants in West Lancashire constituency benefit payments will be reduced from their current whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; what his their current levels in each year from 2011-112 to 2014-15; estimate is of the average weekly reduction in benefit of what his estimate is of the average reduction in benefit such people; what estimate has been made of the effects of such people; what estimate has been made of the of such reductions on the local authority’s housing effects of such reductions on the local authority’s housing revenue; and what assessment has been made of the revenue; and what assessment has been made of the effect of the reductions on new build in the social effect of the reductions on new build in the social sector. [6143] sector. [5635] Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number Work and Pensions what estimate his Department has of social sector tenants in (a) Slough, (b) Salisbury made of the effects of the Government’s plans to and (c) Scarborough and Whitby constituency whose reduce by 10% housing benefit for those who have been housing benefit payments will be reduced from their on jobseeker’s allowance for more than 12 months on current levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; the number of tenants who fall into arrears and may be what his estimate is of the average weekly reduction in subject to eviction. [5840] benefit of such people; what estimate has been made of the effects of such reductions on the local authority’s Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work housing revenue; and what assessment has been made and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of of the effect of the reductions on new build in the social social sector tenants in Stretford and Urmston constituency sector. [6191] whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from their current levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for what his estimate is of the average reduction in benefit Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number for such people; what estimate has been made of the of social sector tenants in Lewisham East constituency effects of such reductions on the local authority’s housing whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from revenue; and what assessment has been made of the their current levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; effect of the reductions on new build in the social what his estimate is of the average reduction in benefit sector. [5860] among such people; what estimate he has made of the 437W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 438W effects of such reductions on the local authority’s housing Steve Webb: An estimate of how many households in revenue; and what assessment has been made of the each English local authority, in each bedroom size, will effect of the reductions on new build in the social be above the cap proposed on page 48 of the Budget sector. [6591] Statement will be included in the impact assessment of the housing benefit changes that will affect the calculation Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for of local housing allowance rates. The Department will Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number publish this on 23 July 2010. of social sector tenants in (a) Ashfield, (b) Argyll and Bute and (c) Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency whose Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Work housing benefit payments will be reduced from their and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number current levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; of (a) pensioners, (b) persons of working age in work, what his estimate is of the average weekly reduction in (c) persons of working age and unemployed, (d) benefit among such people; what estimate he has made social sector tenants and (e) private sector tenants in of the effects of such reductions on the local authority’s receipt of housing benefit in Wakefield constituency. housing revenue; and what assessment has been made [6794] of the effect of the reductions on new build in the social Steve Webb: The information is not available at the sector. [6639] constituency level. Ann Clwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jobseeker’s Allowance and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of social sector tenants in Cynon Valley constituency Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the their current levels in each year from 2011-12 to number of (a) lone parents and (b) others who will 2014-15; what his estimate is of the average reduction have been on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in benefit of such people; what estimate he has made of by 2013 in Bishop Auckland and Blackpool North and the effects of such reductions on the local authority’s Cleveleys constituency. [5179] housing revenue; and what assessment he has made of the effect of the reductions on new build in the social Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work sector. [6781] and Pensions if he will estimate the number of people who will have been on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Work months in West Lancashire constituency in 2013; and and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of how many of them are lone parents. [5688] social sector tenants in Wakefield constituency whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from their Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work current levels in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; and Pensions if he will estimate the number of (a) what his estimate is of the average reduction in benefit people and (b) lone parents who will have been on of such people; what estimate he has made of the jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in Stretford effects of such reductions on the local authority’s and Urmston constituency in 2013. [5866] housing revenue; and what assessment he has made of the effect of the reductions on new build in the social Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for sector. [6793] Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work been in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance for over 23 and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of months in Houghton and Sunderland South social sector tenants in Birmingham, Erdington constituency constituency by 2013. [5902] whose housing benefit payments will be reduced from their current level in each year from 2011-12 to 2014-15; Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for what his estimate is of the average reduction in benefit Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number of such people; what estimate has been made of the of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents in (i) Slough, effect of such reductions on the local authority’s housing (ii) Salisbury and (iii) Scarborough and Whitby revenue; and what assessment has been made of the constituency who will have been in receipt of effect of the reductions on new build in the social jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months by January sector. [6943] 2013. [6010] Steve Webb: We will publish an impact assessment for Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for the housing benefit changes that will affect the calculation Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of of local housing allowance rates on the 23 July 2010. (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have We are developing the detailed policy design of the been on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in other housing benefit changes announced in the Budget. Makerfield constituency in 2013. [6054] We shall publish impact assessments to accompany the relevant legislation when introduced in Parliament and Barbara Keeley: To ask the Secretary of State for are investigating the scope for publishing sooner. Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and been on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in Pensions how many households in each English local Worsley and Eccles South constituency in 2013. [6094] authority, in properties of each bedroom size, will be above the cap proposed on page 48 of the Budget Red Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Book on the date on which the cap is expected to be Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of implemented on local housing allowance. [6836] (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have been 439W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 440W on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in (i) Pregnant Women: Grants Glasgow North and (ii) Ealing Central and Acton constituency in 2013. [6152] Diana R. Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many health in pregnancy Diana R. Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for grants were made in Kingston upon Hull North Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of constituency in 2009-10. [6525] people who will have been on jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in Kingston upon Hull North constituency Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. in 2013; and how many of them are lone parents. [6527] This information is available only at disproportionate cost. Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents who will have Social Security Benefits: Disability been in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance for over 12 months in Lewisham East constituency in 2013. [6594] Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people are in receipt Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for of (a) disability living allowance, (b) incapacity Work and Pensions what his estimate is of the number benefit and (c) employment and support allowance in of (a) individuals and (b) lone parents in (i) Ashfield, Newcastle Upon Tyne North constituency. [6738] (ii) Argyll and Bute and (iii) Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency who will have been in receipt of jobseeker’s Chris Grayling: The information is provided in the allowance for over 12 months at January 2013. [6643] following table: Disability living allowance, incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance, and Chris Grayling: The information is not available. employment support allowance claimants in Newcastle upon Tyne North parliamentary constituency: November 2009 Number Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of DLA 5,310 the number of lone parents in receipt of jobseeker’s IB/SDA 3,670 allowance in Newcastle Upon Tyne North ESA 750 constituency. [6741] Notes: 1. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. Chris Grayling: In April 2010 there were 65 lone 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, some additional disclosure has been applied. parents claiming jobseeker’s allowance in Newcastle 3. Caseload for DLA shows the number of people in receipt of an allowance, Upon Tyne North. and excludes people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in hospital. Note: 4. Constituencies used are for the Westminster Parliament of May 2010. The figure has been rounded to the nearest 5. 5. IB/SDA ‘Claimants’ include people in receipt of benefit and also those who fail the contributions conditions but receive a National Insurance Credit, i.e. ‘credits only cases’. Pensioners: Newcastle upon Tyne Source: DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS

Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for Work and Pensions how many pensioners in and Pensions how many people are in receipt of (a) Newcastle Upon Tyne North constituency receive (a) disability living allowance, (b) incapacity benefit and the basic state pension and (b) pension credit. [6740] (c) employment and support allowance in Wakefield constituency. [6792] Steve Webb: The information available is in the following table. Chris Grayling: The information is as follows: Parliamentary constituency: Newcastle Upon Tyne North Disability living allowance, incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance, and Number employment support allowance claimants in Wakefield parliamentary constituency: November 2009 State pension recipients 18,600 Claimants Pension credit individual beneficiaries 6,490 DLA 5,740 Pension credit household recipients 5,240 IB/SDA 3,920 Notes: 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. ESA 790 2. State Pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of Notes: State Pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic State Pension, but are 1. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support allowance (ESA) receiving additional State Pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. from October 2008. 3. Basic State Pension only figures are not available by current 2010 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, some additional disclosure has been parliamentary constituencies. applied. 4. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension 3. Caseload for DLA show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. exclude people with entitlement where the payment has been suspended, for Individual beneficiaries are the number of claimants in addition to the number example if they are in hospital. of partners for whom they are claiming. 4. Constituencies used are for the Westminster Parliament of May 2010. 5. Parliamentary constituencies are for the Westminster Parliament of May 5. IB/SDA ‘Claimants’ include people in receipt of benefit and also those who 2010. fail the contributions conditions but receive a national insurance credit, i.e. Source: ‘credits only cases’. DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100% Source: data as at November 2009 DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS 441W Written Answers8 JULY 2010 Written Answers 442W

Vocational Training Responsibility for skills training in Scotland and Wales is devolved to those Administrations. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Winter Fuel Payments for Work and Pensions what steps his Department is taking to promote re-skilling initiatives in (a) Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Coventry and (b) the UK; and how much funding his for Work and Pensions if he will make an assessment of Department has allocated to such initiatives in the merits of reducing the age of eligibility for the 2010-11. [6801] winter fuel allowance. [6803] Steve Webb: The winter fuel payment is paid to most Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions people who have reached women’s state pension age. (DWP) is working with the Department for Business, Older people are targeted because they are particularly Innovation and Skills (BIS) to join up employment and vulnerable to the effects of cold weather during the skills systems in England to better help jobseekers identify winter months. and address their skills needs, find employment and progress in work. In line with the increase in women’s state pension age, the qualifying age for winter fuel payments for both The Department is reviewing all of these initiatives as men and women will rise gradually to age 65 between we develop the Work Programme. The Work Programme 2010 and 2020. will be introduced early next year and offer better targeted support to all unemployed people, regardless Work Capability Assessment: Mental Illness of the benefit they claim. Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jobcentre Plus in Coventry currently promotes a and Pensions what recent assessment he has made of variety of re-skilling initiatives. The major part of this the level of accuracy of ATOS in assessing the is via the rapid response service to employers making eligibility of people with mental health conditions for redundancies. In the west midlands this support can be employment and support allowance. [6805] provided while individuals are under notice of redundancy via Unity—Better off West Midlands, who are funded Chris Grayling: The decision about entitlement to by the Skills Funding Agency, to provide specialist employment and support allowance is determined by careers advice followed by short work-focused skills DWP decision makers, not healthcare professionals training to help equip individuals return to work. working for Atos Healthcare. Where appropriate mainstream provision is not available, Medical reports for employment and support allowance Jobcentre Plus advisers make a specific business case to provided by healthcare professionals, including those support the cost of appropriate training via Rapid relating to mental health conditions are subject to random Response Funds where Jobcentre Plus arranges for the quality audit by a system agreed with the DWP and training to be procured. In the current financial year which is conducted by experienced medical auditors skill support for 60 individuals has been provided costing within Atos Healthcare. The quality of Atos Healthcare £3,084 in Coventry and Warwickshire, with a further audit is validated by senior medical auditors from Atos £9,991 committed to the end of June. Forecast expenditure Healthcare and doctors working for the chief medical for the whole year 2010-11 is £97,395. adviser to the DWP.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 8 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 503 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Business Support (Wales)...... 504 Science and Innovation Industry...... 516 Businesses (Health and Safety) ...... 517 Sheffield Forgemasters ...... 505 EU Free Trade Agreement (Peru/Colombia)...... 514 Small Businesses (Finance) ...... 513 FE Colleges (Capital Funding) ...... 512 Small Businesses (Finance) ...... 517 Further Education Funding...... 507 SMEs ...... 509 Graduates (Employability)...... 511 Topical Questions ...... 518 Inward Investment (North-west)...... 503 Universities UK ...... 515 Manufacturing Industry Investment ...... 506 University-based Research Funding...... 514 Post Office Network...... 508 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 8 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 13WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 14WS Court of Justice of the European Union...... 13WS Sentence Review Commissioners...... 14WS Court of Justice of the European Union (Correction) ...... 13WS TRANSPORT ...... 14WS Merchant Shipping (Ship-to-Ship Transfers) Regulations...... 14WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 13WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 14WS DFID Programme (Zimbabwe)...... 13WS Occupational Pensions...... 14WS PETITIONS

Thursday 8 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 5P HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Asylum Screening (Croydon) ...... 5P Student Visas ...... 6P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 8 July 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 403W CABINET OFFICE—continued Apprentices: Environment Protection ...... 404W Lone Parents: Newcastle upon Tyne ...... 433W Broadband ...... 404W Ministerial Policy Advisers: Redundancy Pay ...... 434W Business: Government Assistance ...... 404W Departmental Conferences...... 405W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 391W Departmental Speeches...... 405W Affordable Housing: Construction...... 391W Directors: Company Reporting...... 403W Capital Gains Tax ...... 392W Environment Protection...... 405W Council Housing: Tower Hamlets ...... 393W Further Education: Regulation ...... 406W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 393W Higher Education and Student Finance Green Belt...... 395W Independent Review...... 406W Housing and Planning Delivery Grant...... 395W Insolvency Service: Standards...... 406W Housing Benefit ...... 396W Post Office: ICT ...... 407W Housing: Construction...... 396W Public Expenditure...... 407W Infrastructure Planning Commission ...... 397W Science: Higher Education ...... 407W Tenant Services Authority...... 397W Small Businesses: Finance ...... 403W Takeovers: Public Interest ...... 408W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 366W Departmental Conferences...... 366W CABINET OFFICE...... 428W Departmental Equal Opportunities...... 366W Departmental Official Cars ...... 428W Digital Switchover Help Scheme: ITV ...... 367W Employment ...... 429W Listed Buildings ...... 367W Government Departments: Databases ...... 433W Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme ...... 368W Government Departments: Internet...... 433W National Lottery: Bassetlaw...... 368W Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued HOME DEPARTMENT...... 386W Olympic Games 2012: Business...... 368W British Nationality ...... 386W Olympic Games 2012: East Midlands ...... 369W Crime...... 385W Olympic Games 2012: Transport...... 370W Departmental Offices...... 386W Entry Clearances...... 387W DEFENCE...... 379W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 387W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 379W Police: Greater London...... 387W Ammunition ...... 379W Prisoners: Foreign Nationals...... 387W Armed Conflict: Casualties...... 379W United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime...... 388W Armed Forces: Health Services ...... 380W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 380W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 416W Defence...... 380W Departmental Lost Property ...... 416W Departmental Buildings...... 381W Departmental Official Cars...... 417W Departmental Manpower...... 381W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 417W Departmental Official Photographs ...... 381W Developing Countries ...... 417W Met Office: Private Sector ...... 382W Developing Countries: HIV Infection ...... 418W Piracy...... 382W Equality ...... 418W Submarines ...... 383W India: Overseas Aid...... 419W UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Liberia: Overseas Aid...... 419W Disabilities ...... 383W Madagascar: Forests ...... 419W Niger: Malnutrition ...... 419W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 415W Overseas Aid...... 420W Electoral Reform: Referendums ...... 415W Somalia: International Assistance...... 420W Electoral Systems...... 416W Somalia: Overseas Aid ...... 420W General Election 2010: Armed Forces...... 416W Somalia: Politics and Government ...... 421W Yemen: Overseas Aid ...... 421W

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 383W JUSTICE...... 422W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 383W Administration of Justice: EC action ...... 422W Fuel Poverty...... 384W Asylum ...... 422W Green Investment Bank ...... 384W Community Service Orders ...... 422W Renewable Energy: Heating ...... 384W Crime: Prison Officers...... 422W Windows: Energy...... 385W Departmental Conferences...... 423W Departmental Lost Property ...... 424W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Human Rights ...... 424W AFFAIRS...... 376W Human Rights ...... 425W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 376W Legal Aid Scheme: Marriage...... 425W Departmental Water Charges...... 376W Members: Correspondence ...... 426W Fisheries...... 376W Parricide and Matricide ...... 426W Incinerators...... 377W Photographs...... 427W Prison Sentences ...... 427W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 388W Prisoners: Health Services...... 427W Afghanistan: Religious Freedom...... 388W Prisoners: Social Security Benefits ...... 427W Departmental Equality ...... 389W Prisoners’ Release...... 427W EU Law: Fines ...... 389W Rape: Disclosure of Information ...... 428W European External Action Service ...... 390W Reoffenders...... 428W Kenya: Foreign Relations...... 390W Mehmet Haberal...... 391W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 414W EU Law...... 414W HEALTH...... 397W Labour Party: Finance ...... 414W Departmental Conferences ...... 397W Departmental Equality ...... 397W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 365W Departmental Photographs...... 398W Departmental Official Photographs ...... 365W Departmental Training ...... 398W Departmental Regulation...... 366W Dietary Supplements: EC Law...... 398W Direct Payments...... 398W SCOTLAND...... 378W Doctors: Foreign Workers...... 399W Departmental Official Cars...... 378W Drugs: Research...... 399W Departmental Official Photographs ...... 378W Enfield NHS Trust: Finance...... 399W Epilepsy ...... 400W TRANSPORT ...... 370W EU Law...... 400W Aviation: Exhaust Emissions...... 370W General Practitioners ...... 400W Bus Lanes ...... 370W General Practitioners: Mental Health Services...... 400W Departmental Lost Property ...... 371W Hospital Wards: Gender ...... 401W Departmental Official Cars...... 371W Multiple Sclerosis: Drugs ...... 401W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 371W NHS: Finance ...... 401W Departmental Travel ...... 372W NHS: Foreign Workers...... 402W Level Crossings: Bassetlaw...... 373W NHS: Standards...... 402W Motorcycles: Driving Tests ...... 373W Nurses...... 402W Passenger Focus ...... 373W Stomach Cancer...... 402W Retford Railway Station: Parking...... 373W Strokes: Health Services...... 403W Shipping: Radioactive Materials ...... 373W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 408W WALES—continued Bank Services: Fees and Charges...... 408W Departmental Official Cars...... 365W Budget June 2010 ...... 409W Employment: Location ...... 365W Crown Estates ...... 409W Debts: Developing Countries ...... 409W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 377W Departmental Official Photographs ...... 410W Departmental Official Cars...... 377W Financial Services: Regulation ...... 410W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 378W Government Departments: Accountancy...... 410W Income Tax: Tax Allowances ...... 411W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 434W Inheritance Tax...... 411W Employment Schemes: West Midlands...... 434W Rents...... 411W Housing Benefit ...... 435W Taxation: Banks ...... 412W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 438W Taxation: Gaming Machines...... 413W Pensioners: Newcastle upon Tyne ...... 439W Unemployment: South Yorkshire...... 413W Pregnant Women: Grants...... 440W VAT ...... 413W Social Security Benefits: Disability...... 440W Vocational Training...... 441W WALES...... 365W Winter Fuel Payments...... 442W Departmental Conferences ...... 365W Work Capability Assessment: Mental Illness...... 442W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Thursday 8 July 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 503] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills

Business of the House [Col. 525] Statement—(Sir George Young)

Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44) [Col. 540] Statement—(Mrs May)

Defendant Anonymity [Col. 553] General debate

First World War Commemoration [Col. 630] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Energy Security [Col. 143WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 13WS]

Petitions [Col. 5P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 365W] [see index inside back page]