Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 1 YSR/11.00/1A The
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1 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 YSR/11.00/1A The House met at eleven of the clock, MR. CHAIRMAN in the Chair. -- MEMBER SWORN Ms. Rekha (Nominated) 2 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 3 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 4 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 5 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 6 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 7 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q. No. 541 (Q. No. 541 -- Hon. Member absent) MR. CHAIRMAN: Any supplementaries? SHRI D. RAJA: Sir, I have one suggestion and one question for the hon. Minister. MR. CHAIRMAN: Question, please. SHRI D. RAJA: Sir, the wages to workers under the MGNREG Scheme are not paid on time. There is a delay in making payment. Here, I think the system of Andhra Pradesh of automatic payment of compensation for delayed payment in workers’ bank account can be considered by the Government. My question is this. Despite several court orders – one by the High Court of Andhra Pradesh and the other by the High Court of Karnataka – and despite the observations made by the Supreme Court in this matter, the wage given to workers 8 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q. NO.541 (Contd.) under the MGNREGS is less than the minimum wages in many States. The House will be grateful to him if he throws light on the States where the wage given to workers under the MGNREGS is less than the minimum wages under the Minimum Wages Act. What is the Union Government thinking of dealing with the issue of minimum wages given to workers under the MGNREG Scheme? SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH: Sir, as far as the wages under the MGNREGA are concerned, these were revised on 22nd March this year. While laying the statement on the Table of the House, I had said that it’s the policy of the Government to revise them every year and they would be linked with the Consumer Price Index for Agricultural Labourers. That is the policy of the Government and we will stick to it. Even after the revision of the minimum wage rates for the MGNREGA of March 2012, there are six States in the country where the minimum wage under the MGNREGA is lower than the minimum wage for unskilled agricultural labourer under the Minimum Wage Act of 1948. These States are Kerala, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, Mizoram, Andaman and Nicobar Islands and West Bengal. In all other States, 9 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q. NO.541 (Contd.) the wage under the MGNREGA is higher than the minimum agricultural wage. Sir, the matter is in the Supreme Court. A Special Leave Petition has been filed by the Central Government. We are examining the issue whether we can amend the MGNREGA or the Minimum Wage Act to, once and for all, put an end to this controversy about the divergence between the agricultural minimum wage and the minimum wage under the MGNREGA. But I do want to tell the hon. Members that it is unfair to compare the minimum wage rate under the MGNREGA with the minimum wage rate under the Minimum Wage Act because the wage under the MGNREGA is subject to many other advantages. For example, any worker who completes 15 days of employment under the MGNREGA automatically enjoys the benefits of the Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojna. The workers under the MGNREGA enjoy many benefits which other workers don’t enjoy under the Minimum Wage Act. (Followed by VKK/1B) 10 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 -YSR/VKK-LP/1b/11.05 Q. NO.541 (Contd.) SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Sir, it is deeply disturbing that the number of persondays generated under NREGA is only about half, and perhaps slightly less than half, of the number of mandays that ought to be generated under a programme dedicated to the proposition that the unemployed agricultural labourers of India need 100 days of employment per year. And this is being justified on the ground that this is a demand-driven programme. Now, given the fact that in many of the States where it is self-evident that levels of unemployment in agriculture are much higher than in other States and yet it is precisely in these States that the number of mandays generated is lower – very, very much lower – than 100 days of employment for household, would the Minister kindly consider re- conceiving the MNREGA Programme from being so-called demand- driven to be made into supply-driven because the fact of the matter is that in those parts of India where this programme is most needed, it is clear after five years that administrative arrangements are not such as to generally encourage and enable people looking for jobs to ask for it 11 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q. NO.541 (Contd.) under NREGA or to receive it? In fact, it is not being treated as an entitlement programme but as a programme that is based upon the Budget funds that are allotted and the administrative arrangements that are being made. SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH: Sir, as the hon. Member has conceded, MGNREGA is a demand-driven programme. It’s a demand-driven programme whose primary responsibility for implementation lies with the Gram Panchayats. Sir, I readily admit to the fact that in the three States where the MGNREGA programme should have been implemented on a much larger scale, namely, Bihar, Jharkhand and Orissa, we have not seen the level of activity under MGNREGA which would be warranted by poverty and unemployment ratios. So, I take this criticism and this is a valid point. We are in the process of looking at strengthening the Gram Panchayat institutions in these States. We are looking at remedying the supply side deficiencies which the hon. Member has alluded to. Delayed payment has been one important reason in Central and Eastern India why demand has been falling. There are multiple reasons why delayed payments take place. There 12 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q. NO.541 (Contd.) are lack of banking facilities and lack of post offices. The fact that we have 78 naxal-affected districts makes the job of disbursing wages all that more difficult. That is why, now, we have allowed cash payment of wages in many of these areas and I am glad to say, Sir, delays have come down but, I do want to reiterate that MGNREGA will remain a demand-driven programme. It will remain a programme that would be run by Gram Panchayats. But, we will make every effort to ensure that these three States, in particular, will receive adequate attention. ी िवनय किटयार : माननीय सभापित जी, मनरेगा के कारण देश म एक राज्य से दूसरे राज्य म मजदूरी करने का एक कर्म रुका हुआ है और लोग को अपने ही राज्य के अंदर रोजगार िमला है। म आपको बताना चाहता हूं िक बहुत से ऐसे थान ह, िजनके िलए यह कह द िक पूरा का पूरा टाचार मच गया है, तो गलत नहीं होगा। इसके कारण मजदूर को िजतना लाभ िमलना चािहए या उनको िजतना काम करना चािहए, व े उससे िवरत रहते ह, क्यिक उसी म कमीशन चल जाता है। इसके चलते देश को दोहरा नुकसान हो रहा है, एक तो गावँ के अदरं मजदूर नहीं िमलते, क्यिक उनको बठै े िबठाए वतने िमल रहा है, दूसरा टाचार तो है ही। म आपसे जानना चाहता हूं िक क्या आप इस समया का कोई समाधान िनकालगे, जो नक्सल भािवत इलाके ह, क्या आप इस 13 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 संख्या 541 (कर्मागत) योजना को उन इलाक म यु तर पर चलाएंगे और उर देश के फै जाबाद िजले के अदरं जो बड़ा भारी घोटाला हुआ है, क्या उसकी जाचँ कराएंगे? ी जयराम रमेश : सभापित जी, मुझे खुशी है िक माननीय सदय ने माना है और वीकारा है िक मनरेगा के कु छ सकारात्मक असर भी हुए ह। इसके कारण distress माइगर्ेशन कम हुआ है, जो िक एक वातिवकता है। जहा ँ तक करशन का मामला है, घोटाल का मामला है, यह राज्य सरकार और गर्ाम पचायतं की ाथिमक िजमेदारी होती है िक मनरेगा सही ढंग से चले। (1c/akg पर जारी) AKG-TMV/1C/11.10 ी जयराम रमेश (कर्मागत) : हम इसम ज्यादा हतक्षेप नहीं कर सकते। हम इसे राज्य सरकार की जानकारी म जरूर ला सकते ह, गर्ाम पचायतं की जानकारी म जरूर ला सकते ह, पर त्यक्ष रूप से हम कु छ कारर्वाई नहीं कर सकते। अगर कारर्वाई करनी है, तो राज्य सरकार को करनी है। िफर भी, चूिकँ माननीय सदय ने पूछा है, तो म कहूँगा िक पहली बार हमने सीएजी से िनवदने िकया है िक वह परफॉमस ऑिडट करे। अभी सारे राज्य म सीएजी का नरेगा का परफॉमस ऑिडट चल रहा है। नवबरं तक उसकी िरपोटर् आएगी, जो पािर्लयामट म पेश होगी और उसके ऊपर बहस भी होगी। 14 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 संख्या 541 (कर्मागत) इसके अलावा, हम पहली बार यह सोच रहे ह िक हर गर्ाम पचायतं म मनरेगा के खाते म जो पैसा जाता है, हर गर्ाम पचायतं को हर साल करीब 18-19 लाख रुपए िमलते ह, उसका अलग खाता रखने के बाद चाटर्डर् एकाउटं ट से खाते का सिर्टिफके शन होना अिनवायर् होगा। चाटर्डर् एकाउटं ट सीएजी की सूची से िलया जाएगा और 10 या 15 ितशत के सेज़ म त्यक्ष रूप से कागजात की भी जाचँ होगी। सीएजी और compulsory certification from Chartered Accountant होने से म समझता हूँ िक कु छ दबाव जरूर आएगा, िजससे घोटाले कम हगे। इसके अलावा, जो कु छ जाचँ की िरपोट्सर् आती ह, हम जाचँ की िरपोट्सर् भेजते ह। जहा ँ िशकायत आती ह, वहा ँ जाचँ की टीम भेजी जाती है और उस जाचँ की टीम की िरपोटर् के आधार पर हम राज्य सरकार से िनवदने करते ह िक व े कारर्वाई कर। कई ऐसे मामल म कारर्वाई हुई है, पर म यह वीकार करता हूँ िक कई राज्य म कारर्वाई करने म थोड़ा िवलब जरूर हुआ है। नक्सल भािवत िजल के बारे म जैसा माननीय सदय ने पूछा है, खास कर जो 78 नक्सल भािवत िजले ह, उनम हमने मनरेगा के िलए िवशेष ावधान िकया है। हमने यह पाया था िक भगतानु के िवलब के कारण िडमाडं घट रही थी। इसिलए हमने नक्सल भािवत िजल म कै श पेमट का बन्ध िकया है। मुझे खुशी है िक बालाघाट, जो मध्य देश म है; दंतेवाड़ा, नारायणपुर, िवजयपुर, काकं े ड़, जो छीसगढ़ म ह, ऐसे िजल म अभी मजदूरी की मागँ बढ़ रही है। (समात) 15 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 16 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 17 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 18 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 19 Uncorrected/Not for Publication – 15.05.2012 Q.