[Music] 0:00:15 John: Hello and Welcome to AA Beyond Belief, The

[music] 0:00:15 John: Hello and welcome to AA Beyond Belief, the podcast. I©m your host, John S. Today, Benn and I will be discussing Step 10, "Continue to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it." [music] 0:00:34 John: Hello, Benn. Are you ready for Step 10 today? 0:00:38 Benn: Yeah, I sure am, John. Looking forward to it. 0:00:40 John: Okay. It©s kind of funny. I know what the step says, but I feel like I always have to read it nowadays, ©cause I don©t go to meetings where they read the steps at the beginning of every meeting anymore. So I don©t have them quite committed to my brain cells like I used to, I guess. 0:00:55 Benn: Yeah. 0:00:55 John: But this one says, "Continue to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it." I guess I©ll just start a little bit on the conversation, as I always felt like this is a step that really kinda worked its way into my life where I really feel like it©s something that I do on a very regular basis. I do not actually take a written inventory, the end of every day. I might not even be consciously aware that I©m thinking about it, but it©s just become such a natural part of how I behave now, that I guess, I just have a conscience and I©m very aware of my interactions with other people and it©s no problem for me to look at where I was wrong and try to set things straight. 0:01:50 John: I mean almost it©s like I have to do it anymore. It©s just a part of my nature now to do that. And I don©t think that it comes natural to me to do that. I think it©s something that I learn in AA, not necessarily, partly by reading the books but everything in AA. Just the experience of talking to people, going to meetings, everything has kind of taught me to do that. But there©s a lot of good stuff in here and it©s also interesting to note again that, I read the 12 and 12 when I read the Big Book and, again, the Big Book was all religious. The Big Book, the more I read it, the more it sounds like a Bible, whereas the 12 and 12 was not so much into the God thing. To me, I thought the 12 and 12 seemed pretty rational. 0:02:34 Benn: Yeah. 0:02:35 John: Yeah. What are your thoughts about this? 0:02:37 Benn: Well, when I talk about this step in meetings quite often, I©ll talk about, "This is the step that keeps me coming back to AA." I know we©ve talked about it on the podcast before and I heard you talk to Jeb about it. The steps, on some level, kind of happened to me as I stayed in meetings and I did the things that AA kind of asked us to do, before I ever attended AA, but the problem was, that I would quit doing them. So, I guess Step 10 on some level is... Being in AA and Step 10 tells me I need to keep doing that stuff. I had that all-or-nothing thinking, where it was like, "Once I learn this stuff, once I clean some stuff up, then I should be good to go." and this says, "No, you©ve gotta stay in this process and keep doing it." 0:03:22 Benn: And that©s of great benefit. I©m kinda like you but I©m kinda not in that I think I did this kind of stuff even when I drank. I©m sure you probably did too, like think about all the remorse and feeling bad the next day and all that stuff. I was constantly taking my inventory, but then avoiding doing anything about it, or I did. I apologized to a lot of people before I ever went to AA, too. I was practically a professional apologizer, but being in AA and this process of self-reflection in the Steps, helped me kind of reform that from a blame-and-shame to just taking a good hard look at it and resolving some of it and finding that middle ground between letting myself off the hook and beating the crap out of myself. 0:04:10 John: Right. 0:04:11 Benn: Yeah. 0:04:11 John: Right. Well, some things that I got from AA, and it comes out of the 12 and 12, and I©m not looking at it right now, but there©s a line in there that says, "When we©re disturbed, there©s something wrong with us." Now a lot of people that... I©ve been in meetings a lot of times when this has come up, and a lot of people take offense to that. For some reason, they hear it thinking that there©s something defective about me or I©m wrong in every instance. Anytime I have a conflict with another person, I am wrong. I don©t see it that way. The way that I see it is that if I©m disturbed, if I©m bothered, there©s something I need to pay attention to. That©s how I©m viewing it. There©s something wrong. There©s something I need to take care of. It doesn©t mean I©m wrong. In fact, I might be right. I might be in an argument or a dispute with someone and be absolutely right but emotionally, I©m torn up about it and I think that that©s what©s it©s talking about, is there©s something about my emotional state that needs to be looked at. There©s something wrong there. 0:05:23 John: So, I kinda operate that way now, where I©m very much in tune with my emotional state. It doesn©t mean I correct it right away. Sometimes, I go way... That©s another thing it talked about in this book. It talked about self-restraint, which I©m terrible at, and I need to work on that. But I do always, I©m very aware of that, of where I am emotionally and I do stop and try to figure out, "What the hell is going on with me? Who do I need to have a conversation with?" And that kind of thing. So, that was a big part of the program for me. 0:06:02 Benn: Yeah. And again, I think this is about empowerment, that part of it. I wish it was worded differently, but I agree with you that when this gets talked about in meetings and from the very early going, I was able to kind of translate that, I guess. But if you don©t mind, I©ll just read that little paragraph quick. "It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us." Again, I wish it was worded differently, because I can think... And I©ve had this tendency, especially when I was early on was sponsoring people. It©s like I was so quick to get everybody into, "Well, what©s wrong with you that this is bothering you so much?" Whereas I think, or what I learned from counseling and active listening, was that there needs to be a period of time where you listen to somebody talk about the issue and let them vent and talk about what they need to talk about about it. 0:07:00 Benn: And then you can get to the point where you break it down and say, "Well, what©s really going on here? What©s all going on?" Kind of like you worded it. Whereas I think sometimes in AA, we get so quick to avoid giving somebody rationalization, justification for how they feel, and we jump immediately right on, "Well, what©s the matter with you that this is going this way?" Whereas if we can do that a little bit different way, it is about empowering us. ©Cause then it goes on to say, "If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also." Again, I wish that was worded differently, but the point is... 0:07:31 John: Yeah, ©cause not necessarily are we always in the wrong. 0:07:34 Benn: Right. But I think what it©s asking us to or what I think about therapeutically that goes on, it©s asking us, "Why did you give up your power? Why is this something that is bothering you so much?" Why different parts of year two talks about stopping fighting anything and everything. And it©s about why... You need to look at why these things bother you so deeply or this issue bothers you so deeply. And I think if you dig into that, you can... It©s almost like fourth and fifth step, where you can really see what©s going on. I mean, if somebody walks up and punches you in the face, you©re probably gonna feel a little angry. But then it goes on. "But are there no exceptions to this rule? What about, "justifiable" anger? If somebody cheats us, aren©t we entitled to be mad? Can©t we be properly angry with self-righteous folk? For us of AA, these are..

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