00:00:00 Music Transition Dark Materia’s “The Picard Song,” record-scratching into a Sisko- centric remix by Adam Ragusea.
Picard: Here’s to the finest crew in Starfleet! Engage.
[Music begins. A fast-paced techno beat.]
Picard: Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the USS Enterprise!
[Music slows, record scratch, and then music speeds back up.]
Sisko: Commander Benjamin Sisko, the Federation starbase... Deep Space 9.
[Music ends.] 00:00:15 Ben Host Welcome to The Greatest Generation: Deep Space Nine. It’s a Star Harrison Trek podcast about Deep Space Nine from a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast. I’m Ben Harrison 00:00:25 Adam Host I’m Adam Pranica. Pranica 00:00:28 Ben Host Hey!
00:00:29 Adam Host Heeeyyy! Ben, correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like today’s episode is the first sports episode of Star Trek maybe we’ve ever gotten, right? 00:00:42 Clip Clip [Triumphant, up-tempo music plays, in the style of 1940’s radio.]
Jim McKay (ABC’s Wide World of Sports): The human drama of athletic competition.
[The music quickly fades out.] 00:00:44 Clip Clip Azetbur (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country): The very name is racist. 00:00:49 Clip Clip [The triumphant radio music fades in again.]
Jim McKay: This is ABC’s Wide World of Sports. 00:00:53 Adam Host And that—I’m not talking about a fake sport like, uh-
00:00:56 Ben Host Right. Parrises Squares.
00:00:58 Adam Host Like—like whatever Bashir and Kira played in the holosuite that one time. I’m talking about a real sport, a real, earthly sport. 00:01:06 Ben Host A real sport that real people practice, like anbo-jyutsu [beat].
00:01:12 Adam Host I…
[Ben chuckles.]
I’d play anbo-jyutsu right now. I—I—
00:01:17 Ben Host With the blast shield down, I can’t see anything!
00:01:20 Adam Host I’d play anbo-jyutsu against my father.
[Ben laughs.]
Now more than ever. Ben, this is— 00:01:28 Ben Host Oh, boy.
00:01:29 Adam Host This is an opportunity. I feel like over the years, uh, I’ve made some both thinly and not-very-thinly veiled remarks about your specific sports history and what I—what I believe it to be. 00:01:44 Ben Host [Chuckling] Uh-huh.
00:01:45 Adam Host But I thought maybe—maybe for the open today, you and I could talk about, uh, just what our sports experience has been, uh— 00:01:54 Ben Host Oh, sure!
00:01:55 Adam Host —growing up and up to now. I think that might make for some interesting chat. 00:01:59 Ben Host Yeahhh.
00:02:00 Adam Host Couple of high-performance athletic machines here on the mic.
00:02:05 Ben Host Taut, sinewy podcasters such as ourselves.
00:02:09 Adam Host Yeah.
00:02:10 Ben Host Well, I played a lot of different sports growing up. I—I was always in team sports from kindergarten on. I was a—I played soccer when I was a little kid, and, um— 00:02:21 Adam Host I think—I think a lot of kids played soccer, right? Like, that might have been the entry point into sport for most littles. 00:02:28 Ben Host Yeah. Well it’s a nice, uh—it’s a—it’s a nice sport for a little, ‘cause really all you need equipment-wise is for your mom to take you to the weird soccer store and get some shin guards and cleats. But, you know, beyond that— 00:02:40 Adam Host I did like the feel of those shin guards. The, uh—the—the spring to the sponge of the foam— 00:02:46 Ben Host Yeah, yeah.
00:02:47 Adam Host —on the—on the part that touches your shin. I really liked picking at that. That was— 00:02:52 Ben Host I remember being fascinated at the, like, layer of dry skin that I could, like, scrape away with a fingernail when I took the shin guards off. You know? 00:03:01 Adam Host [Whispers] Oh, that is so nasty.
00:03:05 Ben Host [Chuckles] It was delicious, Adam.
00:03:07 Adam Host Uh, little kid soccer, a great tucker-out-the-kids sport, too, right?
00:03:12 Ben Host Oh, yeah.
00:03:13 Adam Host Just running and running and running.
00:03:14 Ben Host Yeah. Uh, let’s see. Then I was—after the, uh, smash-hit motion picture The Mighty Ducks, got into ice hockey for several years. 00:03:25 Adam Host I can’t believe this! I—it—every—every day with your podcasting partner, you want to make sure it feels like the first time. 00:03:34 Ben Host [Laughs] Yeah, you wanna—
00:03:35 Adam Host I—
00:03:36 Ben Host —you wanna—every time you heat up the mic to feel like the first date [chuckles]. 00:03:39 Adam Host I love that I’m still finding things out about you. This is great. Hockey. You’re a tall. I think a lot of people would—would call you that. 00:03:47 Ben Host Yeah.
00:03:48 Adam Host How—were you a—were you fast, tall, bloomer? Like, were you tall for the kids you age? 00:03:53 Ben Host I was always, like, one of the tallest kids in my class.
00:03:56 Adam Host Mm-hmm.
00:03:57 Ben Host Uh, I was never the tallest. Like, never once in my entire elementary-through-high-school experience was I the tallest kid in my class. But, um— 00:04:07 Adam Host Did you have crazy growth spurts?
00:04:09 Ben Host I did. But I didn’t stop growing ’til I was like 25. Like, I—
00:04:13 Adam Host That’s so fucking crazy.
00:04:14 Ben Host —I was, like 6’2” when I graduated high school and I’m 6’4” now.
00:04:18 Adam Host [Ben makes a few affirming sounds as Adam speaks.]
My wife and I have been watching the Jordan documentary. And one of the—like, there’s a lot that’s funny about that doc. Like, there’s—there’s comedy peppered throughout. And one of the biggest laughs that it got out of me was, like, Jordan goes to college at like, 6’3”, goes away for the summer, and comes back five inches taller.
[Ben laughs heartily.]
I don’t know how that happens. I— 00:04:42 Ben Host Geeze.
00:04:43 Adam Host —as far as I know, I stopped growing my senior year of high school.
00:04:46 Ben Host Yeah. I mean, I was—
00:04:47 Adam Host Vertically, anyway.
00:04:48 Ben Host —I was an awkward boy. I think—I think my feet stopped growing when I was, like, 10-and-a-half. So, I have size 13 feet, and I was probably, like, 5’6” when my feet got to size 13. 00:05:02 Adam Host Can I ask you a question? Uh, when I was growing, I sort of never thought I would stop. And so, like, at least in my household, you always—you’re buying for a size up to get that—that product longevity in shoes, in pants, in shirts. I have—I stopped growing, but I kept getting bigger clothes, expecting that to happen. Was there a moment in your childhood where—where, like, you outpaced the— the growth in—in shoe and shirt size— 00:05:34 Ben Host Wow.
00:05:35 Adam Host — and at that point you’re like, “Whoa, I gotta—now, everything is too big for me and I look crazy.” 00:05:40 Ben Host You know, it’s—like, you saying this is kind of blowing my mind right now, because I have always wondered why it took me so long—like, I was in, like, my mid-to-late twenties before I figured out what sizes of clothes even fit me. 00:05:55 Adam Host Exactly the same. Yeah.
00:05:57 Ben Host And I have always ascribed that to the kind of late 90s fashion of wearing too-big of clothes. You know, big—big, baggy pants— 00:06:07 Adam Host Mm-hmm.
00:06:08 Ben Host —and shirts where the—where the seam is way down off the shoulder. 00:06:11 Clip Clip Elaine Benes (Seinfeld, “The Puffy Shirt”): You can’t come out dressed like that! You’re all puffed up! 00:06:15 Ben Host And I never made the connection that it was probably also partly that as a kid it was just—I—like—we were firing at a moving target every time we bought clothes for me. 00:06:27 Adam Host It was shopping for value, every time.
00:06:30 Ben Host Yeah,.
00:06:31 Adam Host Every back-to-school sale was—was, like, “Can we squeeze another year out of this?”
[Ben chuckles warmly.]
Yeah. That really influenced—that had to influence the style for kids our age. And—like you—that was something that stuck with me through college and into my first job. Like, I— 00:06:51 Ben Host Yeah,
00:06:52 Adam Host —I shudder at the pictures of myself around those times.
[Ben laughs.]
Like, the dumpy mall sweater that— 00:07:00 Ben Host Yeah, yeah.
00:07:01 Adam Host —I feel like I had four of, that all of my friends did, too.
00:07:06 Ben Host Yeah. So, I got out of ice hockey partly due to that awkwardness, because I was also kind of a late-to-puberty person. And the kids that went through puberty early were—like—like—it coincided with, uh—it goes from no contact ice hockey to full “checking,” like, “and these kids have beards” ice hockey. And I was just getting, like—like seriously injured every single game. 00:07:35 Adam Host Wow.
00:07:36 Ben Host Like—like walking around at school like—like working my jaw ‘cause I’d gone down so hard on the ice that even my full face helmet had—[chuckles]—not protected me. 00:07:47 Adam Host It’s incredible to think of all the, uh, undiagnosed concussions that you and I probably had in youth sports. 00:07:56 Ben Host [Laughs] I know. Yeah. Uh, so I got into little league baseball then, and that was, uh, you know—like, I hadn’t don’t like, a—a, you know, grassy field, outdoors sport since I had done soccer. So that was kind of a refreshing thing to return to. And that was something I did, like, kind of middle school and maybe early high school years. But— 00:08:22 Adam Host [Thoughtfully] Oh, yeah.
00:08:23 Ben Host —I was always at schools that didn’t really have, like, much of a sports program, so this was all, like, you know, the local park league or whatever. And, um, and eventually, uh, I got into, uh, rowing crew. And that took—you know, that was like usually a practice every single day of the week and many days there were, like, double-ups where you’d have to be there at, like, 4:30 AM to practice and then you’d like go again after school and practice more, so— 00:08:52 Adam Host Right, right.
00:08:53 Ben Host I didn’t really have a lot of time for, like, friends or anything when I was doing that. 00:08:59 Adam Host Wow. So when did your sports career effectively end, then?
00:09:05 Ben Host It ended when Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers came out.
00:09:10 Adam Host [Guffaws] That is way too specific!
00:09:16 Ben Host I had, like, achieved the thing that I had really been working hard on in crew, which was getting my 2K under seven minutes. 00:09:22 Adam Host Wow.
00:09:23 Ben Host Uh, which—which means you’re rowing like on a—on a rowing machine, but you’re rowing the equivalent of 2,000 meters in less than seven minutes. And it’s like a test that you do periodically, and the coaches use it to assess who is gonna be in which boat. But I was never— 00:09:41 Adam Host Were you ever scouted, like, by—by coaches and were like, “You know, this guy—this guy might have some potential. Like, why not give him a scholarship or something?” Like, was that ever— 00:09:50 Ben Host Yeahhh…
00:09:51 Adam Host —uh, on your mind?
00:09:53 Ben Host It was not. Uh, I wasn’t scouted, but I did, like, when I—when I did my, like, college tour, I did, um, like go to the boathouses at a few of the Northeastern colleges that I was interested in, and, like, meet the—like, I would have had to try out for any crew team, but, uh— and I’m not sure if I would have gotten financial aid because of it or not. But I’m, like, built for that sport. Like—like being in the middle of an eight-man boat, and just, like, pulling super hard. 00:10:24 Adam Host Yeah.
00:10:25 Ben Host It’s like—it’s like the only thing that I was ever, like, actually that good at, athletically. 00:10:29 Adam Host Man. I—
00:10:30 Ben Host But, uh—but then that movie came out and I was, like—I was doing that, like, Larry David, like, “Do I go watch this movie with my friends, or do I go sweat for two hours with a bunch of kids that I hate?” And I— 00:10:44 Adam Host That’s incredible that you had a specific moment like that. Like, a choice. 00:10:49 Ben Host Yeah.
00:10:50 Adam Host Cause for most people I feel like “The season’s over and—and maybe I’ll pick it up next year,” and you just don’t register for the sport or whatever. 00:10:58 Ben Host Yeah. Well, it was one of those things where I’d, like, gotten my split down to where I’d, like, gotten my split down to where I was—I was hitting that—that 2K in under seven minutes, and I was still in, like, the C boat. And I was like, “You know, I’m—I’m better than the kids in the B boat, you know? I should at least be there, if not the A boat.” 00:11:14 Adam Host I bet you were fucking ripped, man. Like, rowing as a—as a sport is, like, one of the best full-body sports you can do. Were you just totally chiseled? 00:11:24 Ben Host It’s not like a muscly sport, though. It’s like—‘cause you’re out in, like, cold weather 00:11:28 Adam Host Yeah.
00:11:29 Ben Host —like, in the mornings and stuff. So you never get, like—you never get—you’re very lean. And—and you have, like, good muscle tone. But it’s not like weightlifting— 00:11:38 Adam Host I’ve got some real back envy, you know, hearing about this, because I’m sure your back’s never gonna let you down, growing up [inaudible]. 00:11:43 Ben Host Yeah. The back does get a nice workout. Um, I’ve always thought if I ever have enough space for it that I would like to get a rowing machine as a—like, that is a—that’s a workout that I, like, know how to do pretty well. 00:11:57 Adam Host Yeah.
00:11:58 Ben Host What about you? What were your sports growing up?
00:12:00 Adam Host Back when I used to go the gym, the rower was—was a thing I liked to do, but very difficult. 00:12:07 Ben Host Yeah.
00:12:08 Adam Host Like, it’s not the kind of warmup that I felt, like, invigorated for the rest of my workout after. It made me tired. 00:23:15 Ben Host No, yeah, yeah.
00:12:16 Adam Host It made me tired for the workout that followed in an unproductive way. 00:12:19 Ben Host Oh, man. It used to be, like—like if I knew I had a 2K coming up on Friday, it ruined my week, because—
[Adam makes a thoughtful sound.]
—it was so scary to know, like, that you had to, like, work that hard. Like, just, it’s a—it—you know, it’s—it’s sprint, but it’s like a seven- minute sprint, so— 00:12:36 Adam Host Yeah.
00:12:37 Ben Host —it really fucks your shit up.
00:12:39 Adam Host Yeah. Like, literally, everything else, Ben. Uh, I may be the one making fun of you about a thing, but—but I’m the one that has less experience or—like, my stories aren’t—aren’t as interesting as yours. Like, and—and that would go in sport, and it would go in filmmaking, and it would go for—for most things in life. 00:13:03 Ben Host [Chuckles] What?!
00:13:04 Adam Host I’m—I’m the—I’m the, uh—the mud-thrower, but I—
[Ben and Adam laugh.]
—but it—but it’s— 00:13:09 Ben Host And also very self-depricating.
00:13:11 Adam Host It’s all bullshit. Here’s—here’s my—here’s my, uh, sports history. Little kid soccer. Just like you. 00:13:18 Ben Host Yeah, yeah.
00:13:19 Adam Host Very, very, “Get out of the house and run yourself ragged, kid,” was the message there. My family then moved to the Seattle area, and I don’t know if it’s like this where you grew up, but it felt very different to me athletically to enter in a place that took little league baseball very seriously. Very seriously. 00:13:44 Ben Host Oh, yeah.
00:13:45 Adam Host And so I thought I was joining something fun and recreational, and what it ended up being was, like, coach dads instilling an amount of seriousness at the expense of fun that made it really difficult to enjoy for more than a season, and so after that first season I stopped—I stopped playing. It didn’t— 00:14:08 Ben Host Yeah.
00:14:09 Adam Host —I mean, and this was, uh—this is not to be confused with the middle school baseball league that I—baseball team that I played on, which—I don’t know about you. When you’re in, uh—in the seventh grade in middle school— 00:14:24 Ben Host Yeah.
00:14:25 Adam Host —uh, that’s basically the best time for minds, bodies, and hearts to be thrown into anything competitive. 00:14:30 Ben Host I mean, yeah [chuckles].
00:14:32 Adam Host And, you know, you do your tryout, and then you get—if you’re me, you think you did pretty well during tryouts, but instead are put on the—not just the JV team, but the—the JV, JV team. 00:14:47 Ben Host The EJV team? Extremely Junior?
00:14:50 Adam Host The team that they don’t even have enough uniforms for, so you’re wearing the girls’ softball uniforms [Ben chuckles]. And that’s—that’s what we did. 00:15:00 Ben Host Wow.
00:15:01 Adam Host And, uh, some of my—some of my both favorite memories and most awful memories of middle school come from playing baseball around that time. I—I left baseball as soon as possible after an inglorious season.
[Ben snickers, then makes a few affirming sounds as Adam continues.]
Went to play tennis in middle school, which ended up being great for me. Uh, it felt like, uh—like I played both singles and doubles, and I felt like playing singles was—was good for the confidence, good for my athleticism. I—it was something I felt like I was good at. And it was fun to—that was like my first taste of being good at something. Uh, and, uh, like winning a game against a stranger is a lot when you’re a middle schooler without a lot of confidence. So—so that was— 00:15:52 Ben Host Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And—and in a one-on-one context, too? Like, that’s crazy. 00:15:56 Adam Host Yeah. Yeah, and it—
00:15:57 Ben Host I never had that. I took, like, tennis lessons a few times, and I went to tennis camp a couple of summers, but I never actually, like, played in any, like, competitive contexts like that. And I can only imagine what that feels like. 00:16:12 Adam Host It felt good. I—I remember playing baseball one last time in middle school. I never played any sports in high school. But there was never, like—I—I played rec league basketball, like you. The, uh—the Y league, or whatever. And I played that for many years, throughout middle school. 00:16:30 Ben Host Yeah.
00:16:31 Adam Host So, I do have a lot of rec leagues sports experience, but none of it— like, I was a—I was so bad at all of them, I— 00:16:43 Ben Host [Chuckles] How bad were you?
00:16:47 Adam Host [Ben makes a few affirming sounds as Adam speaks.]
Like, you can be bad enough at sports to where, like, love of the game isn’t—isn’t enough. It does not outpace the love you have. And I really loved playing baseball and tennis. But it got to be the point where, like, I Peter-Principled, like—like whatever sub-Peter- Principle is, where, like, you never rise to the level of anything, in spite of how much you love what you’re doing. And so, like, there was never a Rudy moment for me where I—where my effort would inspire others. It was just, like, my inability to play didn’t inspire anyone, and then eventually inspired me to stop playing sports. 00:17:25 Ben Host [Chuckles] Well, Adam, do you want to, uh, put on our Ferengi-sized baseball hats and get into the episode for today? 00:17:34 Adam Host Yeah. I feel like our Maron’s running long, if only because there’s not a whole lot to talk about when we discuss, uh, the gem—when we discuss the diamond of season seven, right?
00:17:47 Ben Host Yeah.
00:17:48 Adam Host It’s Deep Space Nine season seven, episode four. “Take Me Out to the Holosuite.” 00:17:54 Music Transition A techno song mixed with clips and soundbites from DS9.
Sisko: Ow! Do you realize how incredible this is? Ow! Ha ha! Ow! Ha ha ha! Hoo! No... Of course you don't!
[Music ends.] 00:18:04 Ben Host This episode opens with Captain Solok of the T’Kumbra paying a visit to Captain Sisko. Captain Solok is in command of a Del Sol- class ship that’s docked at the station having, uh, comported itself with a—a great deal of glory on the frontlines of the Dominion War. Uh, they’re there for, you know, refit and repairs. And, uh, Solok’s there to, like, deliver his—his list of repairs to Captain Sisko. 00:18:36 Adam Host God. Every time we see an establishing shot of a Del Sol, goddamn. Best butt in Starfleet. 00:18:42 Ben Host [Laughs] Yeah.
00:18:44 Adam Host That’s a—that’s a hell of a handsome ship there.
00:18:46 Ben Host Mm-hmm. It’s really an LA face with an Oakland booty on the Del Sol. 00:18:51 Adam Host Really bounce a roll of quarters off of the back of that thing.
00:18:57 Ben Host [Chuckles] Set a drink on it. You can see it from the front.
[Both laugh.] 00:19:02 Adam Host Break the internet, T’Kumbra.
[Ben laughs.] 00:19:04 Sound Effect Sound Effect Bell dings.
00:19:08 Adam Host I love the trivia of this being an all-Vulcan crew. There’s a dark element to that kind of thing,. 00:19:15 Ben Host There’s a dark element to this whole story, which is that Captain Solok is a strident racist. 00:19:22 Adam Host Yeah.
00:19:23 Ben Host I don’t know why he has a commission in Starfleet when he—his views are as retrograde as this.
00:19:27 Adam Host He’s got a Vulcan harp with a big blue string running down the middle of it. 00:19:33 Ben Host He’s got a, uh—under his, uh—under his uniform, he’s wearing a t- shirt that says, “ZDZC.”
[Adam snorts with laughter.]
“Zero diversity in zero combinations.” 00:19:45 Adam Host Wow.
[Ben laughs.]
I want to talk to you about acting in this establishing scene, to get a sense for whether or not you felt the way I did. There is so much, like—like two—like two mountain goats, like bashing their heads— their horns against each other in this scene. 00:20:03 Ben Host Yeah.
00:20:04 Adam Host There’s a quality to Solok and the Sisko’s conversation here, where I kept waiting for them to crack and hug.
[Ben laughs with surprise.]
There feels like a performance aspect to this that—that felt so ten- out-of-ten that eventually they’re gonna be like, “Aww, come on, man. Bring it in!” 00:20:21 Ben Host Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Like, I—I mean, it doesn’t help that the first thing Sisko says is, “You got a lot of nerve coming here after that stunt you pulled.”
[Both chuckle.] 00:20:34 Adam Host Yeah. That—there’s a weird, uh, expectation of pressure release that never comes. 00:20:40 Ben Host Yeah. And it’s—it’s an interesting scene, too, because Solok is standing and Sisko is sitting, and it’s shot in two singles. It’s—it’s cutting back and forth between them. But the camera is below their—the eyeline on both of them, so they’re both shot in that, like— like, if you position the camera below an actor’s eye’s, it makes them look tall and imposing and powerful. And if—like—like the obvious way to shoot this scene is to put the camera that is on Sisko above his eyeline, like as though it is from Solok’s perspective. But then, it would yield some of the power in the scene to Solok, and—and I thought that it was a--a smart choice to shoot it the way they did. 00:21:22 Adam Host It turns out Solok’s crew is obsessed with bases-ball.
[Ben chuckles in agreement.]
And—and they’re obsessed with the game at Sisko. Because—as we learn throughout the episode—the Sisko has gone winless against Solok in every competition they’e ever had.
00:21:40 Ben Host This is a—an episode about a Louisville-slugger-measuring contest that has been with these two men their entire career. 00:21:48 Adam Host It’s so weird that the winner is obsessed with—with—with taking Sisko down. So often in stories of competition, it’s the loser that keeps trying to win over and over again until finally maybe there’s a chance. 00:22:06 Ben Host Yeah.
00:22:07 Adam Host But—but in this story, it feels like the Sisko’s just being bullied. And that’s weird. 00:22:12 Ben Host Yeah. I mean, Solok has the axe to grind of any racist, right? He, like, needs to—he, like—racism doesn’t actually hold up under any scrutiny, so racists are constantly trying to rationalize it to themselves. 00:22:27 Adam Host Well, I mean, to take the other side—
00:22:30 Ben Host [Laughs loudly] Oh, boy, Adam. I don’t know. Sure you want to do that? 00:22:36 Clip Clip Wayne and Garth (Wayne’s World): [Noise signifying a flashback or dissolve] Diddle-iddle-oo! Diddle-iddle-oo! Diddle-iddle-oo! Diddle- iddle-oo! 00:22:38 Adam Host Well, you just cut about 13 minutes out of that episode. And we’re back. 00:22:42 Ben Host Yeah.
00:22:45 Adam Host I loved this next scene in the wardroom where it’s clear that, uh, Sisko has personally vouched for the rest of the crew’s interest in having a little baseball game on the holosuite and playing competitively against Solok’s team of Vulcans. 00:23:03 Ben Host They all come—come in here expecting a McLaughlin group.
00:23:08 Clip Clip John McLaughlin (The McLaughlin Group): Issue one!
00:23:09 Ben Host —about some kind of war game or serious competition. But it’s a slide-whistle McLaughlin Group. The deal is that Solok has, like, a holodeck program that he likes to run for his crew, and the competition is going to take place in the context of this program. And they’ve got two weeks for Ben and Jake Sisko to sort of whip the crew of Deep Space Nine into shape. And this starts with book learning, and there’s a lot of attempted comedy—[chuckles]—with the characters studying the infield fly rule on iPads. 00:23:48 Clip Clip Worf: “Fly. The term for a batted ball while it is the air.” 00:23:51 Adam Host We cut over to Damar and Weyoun, where they have both mutually agreed to take two weeks off of the war for no reason. 00:23:59 Ben Host [Chuckling] Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:01 Adam Host So, this really fits nicely into everyone’s schedule.
00:24:05 Ben Host Yeah. I—I thought it was a nice touch that they’re standing there in their war room and there’s a guy that walks through selling concessions.
[Mock-shouting] “Kanar here. Get your kanar here. Ice-cold kanar! Kanar, five—alright, buddy. $5!”
[In his regular tone] And then people pass the kanar down the line and then the money gets passed down the line back. 00:24:23 Adam Host Yeah. I mean, people complain—
00:24:27 Sound Effect Sound Effect [A crowd at a baseball game cheers in the background.]
00:24:28 Adam Host I mean, people complain about the price of kanar at—at the games, but it’s fun because sometimes you get that giant novelty bottle with the—with the logo of your team on it. It feels special. 00:24:37 Ben Host Oh, yeah. Yeah!
00:24:38 Adam Host It’s okay to over-pay for special occasions.
00:24:41 Ben Host Absolutely. And it— I’m like, “That’s what keeps these things alive, you know?” 00:24:44 Adam Host Yeah.
00:24:45 Ben Host That’s the lifeblood of the ballpark, is the expensive kanar.
00:24:50 Adam Host The Dippin’ Dots at at, uh, Cardassian baseball game come in a giant spoon, don’t they? 00:24:59 Ben Host [Laughs heartily] So, the crew, like, learns the rules by book learning first. And, uh, this is a bell they ring for a long time and over a number of scenes. 00:25:10 Adam Host Oh, yeah.
00:25:11 Ben Host Uh, it starts in ops, then it cuts to Quark’s bar. In Quark's bar, uh, Rom and Leeta have caught wind of this game and are really interested in participating themselves. They want to try out for the team. Quark does not, though. 00:25:28 Adam Host No, he doesn’t. But he also wants to fit in, he doesn’t want to be left out of moments like these. 00:25:35 Ben Host He should! He should be like, “This is great. While everybody’s on the holosuite doing that bullshit, I’m gonna do crime.” 00:25:40 Music Music “Gin and Juice” from the album Doggystyle by Snoop Dogg plays.
00:25:41 Adam Host That is exactly where his mind should be—on his money, but it isn’t.
00:25:47 Ben Host Yeah. He’s got his mind on this baseball, and this baseball on his mind— 00:25:50 Music Music Song record-scratches to a halt.
00:25:51 Ben Host —rather.
00:25:52 Adam Host There are tryouts, is what the Sisko organizes, as if he has any more players possible than the ones that he has. You’re gonna make the team if you try out for the Niners, Ben. 00:26:06 Ben Host I would have liked to see Morn in the tryouts.
00:26:08 Clip Clip Sports commentator: This ball is crushed
00:26:12 Ben Host And Morn getting cut.
00:26:13 Clip Clip Sports commentator: Here he comes, on a run! And out fisticuffs!
00:26:17 Adam Host There are a number of parts of this episode where I—I wondered why the focus was where it was, given the many possibilities that— 00:26:27 Ben Host Mm-hmm.
00:26:28 Adam Host —a story that like this presents.
00:26:30 Music Transition A techno song mixed with clips and soundbites from DS9.
O'Brien: Gul Dukat! Kira: Dukat! Sisko: Dukat. O'Brien: Gul Dukat! Kira: Dukat!
Dukat: So...
[Music ends.] 00:26:33 Adam Host In the holosuite, Sisko gives a speech so inspiring, we’ve never heard anything like it during wartime.
[Ben chuckles.]
I was like, “Where has this Sisko been?” This—this is great. I’m ready to play for him. 00:26:48 Clip CIip Ben Sisko: It’s about courage. And it’s also…about faith. And it is also about heart. And if there’s one thing our Vulcan friends lack, it’s heart. 00:27:01 Ben Host He introducers the team to Jake—for some reason—“The Slider” Sisko, who’s gonna be their secret weapon. 00:27:07 Adam Host Uh, it looks like to me that he’s packing a secret weapon, because I was very distracted by the giant bulge that was basically center- frame. 00:27:19 Ben Host [Chuckling] I was wondering about the, uh—the athletic cup that a, uh—a character like Worf might be wearing. Do you—do you have to design it differently if you’re a double-donged species? 00:27:32 Adam Host Oh, man. I'm sure you’re just coiling those up like cable inside there. But, uh, pitchers don’t wear cups. But Cirroc Lofton does. 00:27:41 Ben Host I never pitched in Little League. They never let me do that.
00:27:45 Adam Host Probably couldn’t find a cup big enough for you?
00:27:49 Ben Host [Chuckles lightly] No. It’s probably because I showed up in a cup, and they’re like, “This guy can’t pitch. He doesn’t know the first thing about it.” 00:27:54 Adam Host So we have two weeks of tryouts with Jake’s giant bulge, the Sisko’s inspiring speeches to carry them through— 00:28:03 Ben Host Yeah.
00:28:04 Adam Host —and so we get—again—
00:28:05 Ben Host I feel like this was already, like, kind of a lazy bit of writing, though. Because, it’s like—I was like, “Is there a tryout day and then it’s practice after that? Or is it all tryouts? Or is it practice that is also tryouts or something?” Like, the—the stakes that you could be cut from the team or not picked up on the team are something that I’m— as a viewer—wanting them to set up and then pay off. And I feel like they half set up and half pay that off, you know. 00:28:39 Adam Host Because the only person to get kicked off the team during practice is Rom. 00:28:43 Ben Host Who, uh—played by Max Grodénchik, who ironically is apparently the best baseball player of the entire Deep Space Nine cast. Did you read this? 00:28:53 Adam Host I did. Yeah. And he had to—he had to play left-handed, because he could not—as great of an actor as he is, he could not act like he didn’t know how to play. 00:29:01 Ben Host He has—he has too much game to play right-handed—[chuckles]— and be plausibly bad. 00:29:07 Adam Host “Sorry, guys. I can’t do anything less than my best.”
00:29:11 Ben Host Yeah. You know, they really lean on him for the physical comedy in this, you know? 00:29:15 Adam Host Yeah.
00:29:16 Ben Host I feel like that’s another thing that they could have spent more time with. You know, characters being—you know, like being bad at throwing a baseball is something everybody goes through when they first learn how to throw a baseball. 00:29:27 Adam Host Right.
00:29:28 Ben Host And then you get better. And they had a cast of people that had a large variety of level—of skill levels. So they could have done stuff with that, but they—they leave all of that stuff to Rom. 00:29:41 Adam Host You’re taking this episode way too seriously, Ben.
[Both chuckle.]
I understand it. I— 00:29:49 Ben Host I am trying to engage with this episode on the episode’s terms.
00:29:54 Adam Host There’s so much meat on both the story and comedy bone, because for some reason, Ben Sisko recruits Odo as an umpire— 00:30:05 Ben Host Yeah.
00:30:06 Adam Host —when he would be the most formidable batter and fielder on that team. 00:30:13 Ben Host Yeahhh.
00:30:14 Adam Host He could Mister Fantastic the entire infield and have coverage of it.
00:30:17 Ben Host Oh, yeah. He doesn’t need to hit the cutoff, man. He can catch a ball and tag the batter out at home plate from center field [laughs]. 00:30:27 Adam Host [Imitates Odo in a gravely voice] “In the event of a rainout, I can also be the tarp.” 00:30:32 Ben Host [Laughs, then also imitates Odo] “I will form a dome over the stadium and continue to play my position.” 00:30:37 Adam Host I mean, ideas like these seem to be coming from a place of, “This is what we can do,” instead of what might be interesting to do, you know? 00:30:49 Ben Host Right.
00:30:50 Adam Host This—this feels like a story that is built from its constraints instead of is possibilities. 00:30:55 Ben Host Yeah. And—and, you know, there's a lot of fire in Sisko’s belly early on about this. Like—like despite how, like catastrophically shitty the team is at the outset, like, he keeps kind of making proclamations, like, “I’m going to win this game.” Like, “We are going to walk off that field victorious at the end of two weeks.” 00:31:17 Clip Clip Ben Sisko: We are going to beat them. Am I right?
Scattered Voices: Yeah! 00:31:20 Ben Host I really admire the pluck, you know?
00:31:22 Adam Host Yeah. I mean, that’s what you want out of a manager, is that kind of fire. 00:31:27 Ben Host Yeah.
00:31:28 Adam Host And to a person, I think everyone is bringing their best effort in—in spite of how little talent they have for this. Like, they’re—they’re straight-up injuring themselves in order to do this 00:31:41 Ben Host Or in Quark’s case, getting injured.
00:31:43 Clip Clip Kira: Knitting together a couple of bones is not major surgery, Quark.
Quark: It is if the bones are in the back of your skull. 00:31:50 Adam Host Yeah, I mean, Quark endures a skull fracture, uh, somehow during practice.
00:31:56 Ben Host Yeah, ‘cause Rom was just swinging the bat around without looking to see if anyone was nearby. 00:32:01 Adam Host That's a lot of skull back there.
00:32:03 Ben Host Yeah. Yeah [chuckles].
00:32:05 Adam Host I gotta believe he’s gonna be alright.
00:32:06 Ben Host So we know Rom can hit the broad side of a barn.
00:32:10 Adam Host Right. Right. Sisko knows he needs a secret weapon. That secret weapon ends up being Kasidy Yates, who—aside from being a baseball fan—is not the secret weapon that I thought she would be, you know? Like, I thought she would be the—the pinch hitter— 00:32:28 Ben Host Yeah.
00:32:29 Adam Host —the one to win the game for you. It’s not like that.
00:32:32 Ben Host No, but, like, she can field a ground ball—
00:32:34 Adam Host Yeah.
00:32:35 Ben Host —which is, like, not really something that most of the other players can do. She’s like— 00:32:39 Adam Host You want to put one of your best players at third, and I think that’s where she is, yeah? 00:32:43 Ben Host I believe you’re correct with that. Um, yeah. She’s, uh—like there’s a lot of—this is another thing that they—they, like, set up a little bit. Like, “Okay. Like, Kasidy’s gonna be awesome.” And it’s barely paid off. Like, it’s—it’s barely like—yeah, it would be—it would have been awesome if Kasidy had, like, come up to the plate and, like, pointed at the—at the outfield with her bat and just, like, dinged one. 00:33:08 Adam Host Right.
00:33:09 Ben Host This is like one of those, “We got buried in a hole in the first inning,’ kind of sports stories, “and can we get ourselves out?” 00:33:18 Adam Host Yeah.
00:33:19 Ben Host So, they don’t ever—like, none of the players ever get to do something, like, totally awesome, which is kind of unfortunate, I think. Like, I think that it would have been really fun to see Worf, like, hit the leather off of a baseball. It would have been really fun to see—I guess, uh, Ezri's one of the few characters that gets to do something, like, really physically amazing, except for it’s just like a— like a man with a mustache—[laughing]—that they got to be her— her stunt double for that one moment. 00:33:49 Adam Host It’s, uh—it’s, like—it’s like that scene in Spaceballs.
00:33:52 Clip Clip Captain of the Guard (Spaceballs): Spectacular stunt, my friends. But all for naught.
00:33:56 Adam Host Yeah, that was bizarre, especially because we are aware of special skills that this crew has. I mean, we got many, many episodes of Julian Bashir being great at darts, for example. 00:34:09 Ben Host Right. Mm-hmm.
00:34:11 Adam Host And—and great at racket sports. Next to—I won’t even say next to. There is zero reference made about Dr. Bashir’s abilities in those areas being desirable qualities for baseball. He should be great at this. And it’s not a story. 00:34:26 Ben Host I feel like he should have been on the pitcher’s mound, given his darts skills, right? 00:34:33 Adam Host Yeah, and like, you don’t have to win the game. Like, here’s the thing. Like, to make Bashir great— 00:34:40 Ben Host [Chuckles suddenly] Is Sisko a terrible coach? Like, does he just look at this team and not see where their potential lies? 00:34:46 Adam Host I think that’s the unintended subtext, because, like, if—if you’re making a story that’s like, you know, the crew comes together and rallies around their captain and does something inspiring even though they lose—you know, it’s a very Bad-News-Bears-type story. Nothing about that idea is ruined by inserting a couple of really good players onto your team. This is why really good players don’t mean your baseball team is good. Like, I grew up watching the Seattle Mariners which are—were, like, notably a team with one or two great players. They didn’t go anywhere for a long time. 00:35:24 Ben Host I mean, like, it—the subtext is that Sisko is a bad coach, but I think, like, his failures are the writer’s failures, right? Like, the writer failing to see these—these angles that could be played in his own script. 00:35:37 Adam Host Ronald D. Moore gets the writer credit here, but I think he read this, too. Like, this was a total re-skin of a script that Ira Steven Behr wrote for Fame. Like, there are plot beats and story beats in this that were lifted directly from another episode of another TV show. 00:35:58 Ben Host Wow. [Beat, then laughs.]
00:35:59 Adam Host And I—and I think when you—for whatever reason, I think if—if you’re stepping up the pre-production of this show and you see an opportunity to be expedient or an opportunity to be interesting, it looks like they chose the first path. 00:36:15 Ben Host Yeah.
00:36:16 Music Transition A techno song mixed with clips and soundbites from DS9 and other sources.
Odo: To be quite honest about it, I was in a pail. Speaker: A bucket? Odo: A pail. Announcer (Mr. Bucket commercial): Mr. Bucket! Odo: I have to revert back to my liquid state! Nog: Hoh! Jake: Odo! Odo: I don’t use the bucket anymore!
[Music ends.] 00:36:26 Ben Host There’s a bunch of scenes of people trying and failing to be good at baseball, and they’re getting closer and closer to the big game. There’s a scene where Captain Solok comes and, like, sits in the bleachers and watches them practice for a while, which is, like, some—some real stone-cold shit. 00:36:42 Adam Host Yeah.
00:36:43 Ben Host I like—I mean, like, Solok is definitely a villain in more ways than one. And the—the just, like, coming and mean-mugging the entire team for a while because he’s got that kind of free time on his hands as a captain of a starship is—[laughs quietly]—is a great moment. But, uh, the—I tell you, like, the big, uh—the big bummer in the episode is when Sisko kicks Rom off the team for sucking ass. 00:37:09 Cilp Clip Sisko: That’s it! You’re done.
00:37:10 Ben Host For—I mean, and—and kicks Rom off the team specifically for swinging a baseball bat and losing his grip on it and the bat almost hitting—for some reason—Jake. 00:37:20 Cilp Clip Rom: I’ll do better tomorrow, Captain.
Sisko: No you won’t. You are finished! Gone! Off the team! 00:37:25 Adam Host He’s really, like, taking a wrestling amount of bumps. Like, I don’t know how many takes you swing a bat entirely around your body and then hit the dirt with it. 00:37:34 Ben Host [Amused] Yeah.
00:37:35 Adam Host But, I mean, there’s no faking hitting the dirt the way he does. It looks painful. 00:37:40 Ben Host Yeah.
00:37:41 Adam Host I really—
00:37:42 Ben Host He really threw himself into this.
00:37:43 Adam Host As a real athlete, I admire his willingness to do that.
00:37:47 Ben Host Totally. The team really rallies around Rom here. They’re like, “Yes. That—Sisko was totally out of line. He was being a complete prick. And we’re gonna quit so that, uh, you know, in solidarity with you.” And Rom is the one that is, uh—is like, “No! I want to see these Vulcans get beat.” 00:38:08 Clip Clip Rom: Even if I’m only watching from the—the, uh—
Nog: Stands. 00:38:12 Adam Host I saw this as a reverse psychology ploy, and that no one wanted Rom to play on their team, but they wanted to make it seem as— make it seem as though they did.
[Ben makes a thoughtful sound.]
Did you get a whiff of that in this scene? 00:38:26 Ben Host Ah, I didn’t pick up on that, but I like the—I like the read a lot.
00:38:30 Adam Host Maybe my favorite part of the story is that O’Brien unfortunately has aggravated a kayak injury. He’s going to be unable to play— 00:38:40 Clip Clip O’Brien (TNG, “Transfigurations”): I was kayaking on the holodeck again.
Crusher: You dislocated your shoulder.
[O’Brien groans in pain.] 00:38:44 Adam Host —and thus relegated to bench coach/first-base-coach duty. Doesn’t stop him from doing a little bit of, uh, replicator research. And he— and he makes himself some scotch-flavored gum. 00:38:56 Clip Clip Dave Attell (Skanks for the Memories): Did someone just fuck a clown in here? I mean, really. 00:38:59 Ben Host Doesn’t that sound delicious?
00:39:00 Adam Host I mean, it’s something I would try. It’s like that licorice gum, you know? 00:39:04 Ben Host [Dubiously] Right, yeah. I’ll try anything once.
00:39:07 Adam Host Yeah.
00:39:08 Ben Host In Sisko’s quarters, he and Kasidy sort of get into what grinds his gears about Captain Solok. And this is where we get the—the backstory that, uh, back at—in his academy days, he and Solok were in the same year and Sisko was, like, tying one on with a bunch of friends at a bar somewhere. 00:39:28 Adam Host Solok was like, [Imitating Solok in a deep, breathy voice] “You wrestle Starfleet. You talk and you talk, but you have no—“
00:39:37 Ben Host [Also imitating Solok] “Greco. Roman. Human.”
[Both laugh, then Ben resumes his regular tone.]
I gotta say, “wrestling a sober Vulcan,” sounds like a very specific masturbation technique [chuckles]. 00:39:49 Adam Host Oh, yeah. “Hey, uh, sorry I was late. I had to, uh, wrestle the sober Vulcan, [beat] if you know what I mean.” 00:39:58 Ben Host “But now I’m feeling very relaxed and able to focus in a way that I couldn’t before.” 00:40:03 Adam Host It’s actually a very effort-ful kind of onanism, because it takes three times the strength that, uh, it usually would. 00:40:12 Ben Host [Laughs warmly] But the stakes are high for all non-Vulcan species here, because what he reveals is that Solok has basically had a hobby ever since this wrestling match of publishing psychology papers and things about what useless pieces of shit humanity are for having the capacity to emotionally overreact to somebody pushing their buttons the way Solok did. 00:40:41 Adam Host It’s so strange to think about a Vulcan acting like this. I mean, we— for a long time, I think we’ve understood that, you know, Vulcans are a very, uh, “Do as I say, not as I do,” type of—
[Ben chuckles loudly.]
—people. But, like, the spitefulness of this Solok character to basically be the adult bully of Ben Sisko for years— 00:41:05 Ben Host Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:06 Adam Host —comes as kind of a shock to me.
00:41:08 Ben Host Amazing how little insight he has into his own emotional reaction to— 00:41:17 Adam Host Yeah.
00:41:18 Ben Host —other people. But this scene ends with Ben Sisko, like, begging Kasidy Yates not to tell the crew about what the real dispute is here. And it’s a smash cut to a secret second McLaughlin group— 00:41:32 Clip Clip John McLaughlin (The McLaughlin Group): Issue two!
00:41:33 Ben HOst —in which he is spilling the beans about this wrestling match beef.
00:41:38 Adam Host Let’s just do a show without Pat Buchanan.
[Ben laughs.]
A secret show. 00:41:45 Ben Host Isn’t this nice? He’s not here dogwhistling. It’s—it’s really good.
00:41:52 Adam Host Cut to Pat Buchanan reading all of the books that Solok wrote about racial superiority.
[Ben laughs loudly.]
There’s some argument about, like, why not tell the team why this is so important? This is the Kasidy v Ben Sisko conflict here. Like, why keep this a secret that—that there's a personal grudge happening here? 00:41:16 Clip Clip Kasidy: They don’t understand why you’re so caught up in this!
Ben Sisko: Oh, no. I’d, uh, rather they think I’m just caught up in some baseball game than pursuing an adolescent rivalry. 00:42:27 Ben Host Also, it’s not a secret! Solok publishes these papers.
00:42:32 Adam Host It’s a great point! I don’t understand the choices being made by these characters in this moment. 00:42:37 Ben Host It’s not great. And, uh, the game starts and, like, pretty soon there’s a—you know, ball-that-gets-called-as-a-strike situation that gets Sisko to run out of the dugout and, like, tap Odo on the chest and get thrown out of the game. 00:42:55 Clip Clip Odo: Rule number 4.06, subsection A, paragraph 4. Look it up, but do it in the stands. You’rrre gone! 00:43:04 Ben Host [Adam makes a few affirming sounds as Ben speaks.]
And it’s like, “Well, there—there you’ve got it. Like, that is what Solok needed. Like, win or lose—like, whichever way this game goes, Solok got what he came for. So—[chuckles quietly]—like, can we pack it up and end the episode early? 00:43:18 Music Music DS9 credits music plays.
00:43:23 Adam Host This fucking show.
[Ben laughs.]
The promise of Odo as umpire—I think—includes a couple of things. One of them is that in an episode that has already given you montage after montage, we were going to get Frank-Drebin-as- umpire-at-a-baseball-game-style montage treatment here, where Odo does flashy Founder tricks, you know— 00:43:49 Ben Host Yeah [laughs].
00:43:50 Adam Host —with his—with his gestures. And, like, a foul tip goes through his face and he’s messed up. Like—those are two that I just came up with off the top of my head, Ben. Like, where is the flashy, fun— 00:44:04 Ben Host Yeah.
00:44:05 Adam Host —like, where’s the science fiction to this baseball game?
00:44:09 Ben Host Where is the scene where he shows up in his jersey and somebody says like, “Oh, you’re supposed to have, like, a face mask and a— and a chest guard.” And he like—his chest inflates to, you know— 00:44:20 Adam Host [Laughs quietly, but intensely] Yeah, you know what? Uh, the—the move that he made with the belt a couple of seasons ago was so great. 00:44:26 Ben Host Yeah.
00:44:27 Adam Host Like, we don’t need to do that again.
[Ben laughs.]
If you have a choice budget-wise, whether or not you want him to inflate his chest protector during the baseball episode or make a belt, I mean, we know where the priorities lie. 00:44:38 Ben Host [Catching his breath] Yeah.
00:44:39 Adam Host What the hell?
00:44:41 Ben Host Instead, the montages we get in this game are just, like, the camera in a static shot on the scoreboard as the innings go on and the Vulcans’ score goes up and up and up. 00:44:51 Adam Host Shooting sports is hard, man. And I really noticed—I felt like they did a capable job here. But what you get a lot of is, uh, behind the pitcher angle at a batter, a pitch being thrown. And then a butt-cut to a closer shot of the batter making contact with the ball. 00:45:11 Ben Host Right.
00:45:12 Adam Hos Because that’s all you can do.
00:45:15 Ben Host Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, mostly it’s—it’s fine. And, like, you—you can follow the—the way each play is going— 00:45:22 Adam Host Yeah.
00:45:23 Ben Host —which, it’s possible to screw that up.
00:45:24 Adam Host I like that they didn’t do that thing that you see so often where they move the pitcher closer to the batter to make it look like they’re throwing faster. 00:45:34 Ben Host Right.
00:45:35 Adam Host Like, you see that a lot in TV and movies, where they fake the distance. But that’s not the case. Uh, Cirroc Lofton looks like he’s got some game here with his pitches, in spite of giving up a first pitch dong.
[Ben laughs.]
00:45:47 Music Transition A techno song mixed with clips and soundbites from DS9 and TNG.
Sisko, little girl, and Bashir: Allamaraine! Count to four! Allamaraine! Then three more! [Continues]
Picard: What are you doing? What—what—what are you doing?
Commander, what are you doing now?
Sisko: Ow! Ow! Ha ha! Ow! Ow! Hoo!
I’m not Picard I’m not Picard I’m not Picard I’m not Picard
Picard: Exactly.
[Music ends.] 00:46:03 Adam Host A couple of other things happen here. Kira gets rolled up on a slide into second. I—I wanted to jump into the screen at that. You don’t roll up Kira. 00:46:13 Ben Host [Chuckles] Yeah. That’s your girl.
00:46:15 Adam Host Yeah.
00:46:16 Ben Host I liked Rom being the only person in the crowd. I think, uh, this is Rom showing that he’s the bigger man by still showing up for the game, despite being treated like shit by Sisko. And then when Sisko is ejected from the game, showing that he’s the smaller man by, like, not going and sitting next to Rom. Going and sitting by himself in a different part of the bleachers. 00:46:37 Adam Host That was pretty withering, right?
00:46:40 Ben Host [Chuckling quietly] Yeah.
00:46:41 Adam Host That’s not fun.
00:46:43 Ben Host Pretty—pretty nasty. But, um—
00:46:45 Adam Host Everyone’s wearing a batting helmet except for Worf. Did you notice that? And, like, they have bigger-size hats for the Ferengi, but only a slightly bigger-size hat for Worf.
00:46:56 Ben Host Right.
00:46:57 Adam Host It probably looked too cartoonish to give him a batting helmet, going over that loaf, right? 00:47:02 Ben Host [Chuckling] Yeah. They—they just give him his First Contact space helmet, and they’re like, “This is the only thing we could do.” 00:47:09 Adam Host Yeah.
00:47:10 Ben Host But Sisko realizes, like, this game is not going to be about actually winning on a basis of points. It’s going to be winning on the basis of heart. Something that the Vulcans could never win on. 00:47:22 Adam Host No. It’s true.
00:47:24 Ben Host And who’s got the most heart on the team, Adam? It’s Rom!
00:47:28 Adam Host Yeah. It’s Rom. “Put me in, Coach. I’m—[starts imitating Rom]—I’m ready to play?” 00:47:37 Ben Host [Chuckling] Jesus.
00:47:41 Adam Host [Resumes regular tone] Pinch-hitting for Jake is Rom, and he is buoyed by a loving crowd that is, uh, called for on the holosuite. 00:47:50 Clip Clip Ben Sisko: Computer!
O’Brien: Come on, Rom!
Leeta: Go, Rom!
Kira: Yeah, come on, Rom!
Leeta: Whoo!
P.A. Announcer: Your attention, please. Now pitch-hitting for Jake Sisko, number 13: Rom.
[Crowd cheers and applauds.] 00:48:00 Adam Host Turns out that’s what he needed. He didn’t need, like, the scrutiny of a quiet stadium. What he needed was kind of the distraction of a raucous aud ience. 00:48:09 Ben Host Right. Maybe the—the best joke in the episode is Rom not understanding what the secret signals mean— 00:48:18 Adam Host Right. Right. 00:48:19 Ben Host —about bunting and accidentally bunting anyways. Uh, and he—he bunts his own son home. 00:48:27 Adam Host This dive into home I thought was great. 00:48:30 Ben Host Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:31 Adam Host This is so had to make look good and athletic. And between the angle and the actor and everything, the headfirst slide was great.
00:48:41 Ben Host Yeah, the—it’s—like, Aron Eisenberg, like, 1,000% goes for it. 00:48:47 Adam Host Mm-hmm.
00:48:48 Ben Host But also, like, just seeing the loaf in the—
00:48:51 Adam Host Yeah.
00:48:52 Ben Host —you know, in the slide and stuff, is like—it’s just a fun and funny shot. 00:48:56 Adam Host It’s big fun. 00:48:57 Ben Host So, they put one point up on the board that—you know, the team empties the dugout and, uh, goes and picks up Rom and puts him on their shoulders. And, uh, Captain Solok takes great umbrage with this and tries to get Odo’s attention and, uh, insist that he, uh, bring some order to the game and continue. And—but by making contact with Odo’s shoulder to do so, Solok gets himself thrown out of the game. 00:49:26 Clip Clip [A crowd chants and cheers, “Rom” in the background.]
Solok: The game is not over!
Odo: You’re gone! 00:49:33 Adam Host Mildly satisfying—
[Ben chuckles.]
—I guess. 00:49:37 Ben Host Yeah. 00:49:38 Adam Host He’s so angry that they’ve carried Rom off the field, and the game isn’t over. And I understand this. 00:49:45 Ben Host [Amused] Yeah. 00:49:46 Adam Host I’m becoming more irate as I watch the episode, and I—I actually take Solok’s side here. You got to finish the game, guys. 00:49:53 Ben Host Yeah. [Chuckling] Adam’s, uh—Adam came to record today’s episode wearing a Logicians baseball hat, so— 00:50:00 Adam Host Yeah. Big fan. I mean, where else are you going to celebrate your big win, uh, in the rec league game? I mean, there—there’s no Applebee’s on the station.
[Ben laughs briefly.]
You got to take it over to Quark’s! 00:50:13 Ben Host It was always Round Table Pizza for us. 00:50:16 Adam Host Yeah
00:50:17 Ben Host [Pointedly mutters] I mean, if we’d ever won a game.
00:50:18 Adam Host Yeah. That’s a classic.
00:50:20 Ben Host But, uh, yeah. The button on the episode is the, uh, the big party. Uh, one thing I read about this scene is that Odo and Worf are in it, except for it’s not Michael Dorn or René Auberjonois. It’s their—it’s their camera doubles. So they just put them kind of in the deep background. 00:50:38 Adam Host That has got to be so terrifying, when you’re at the end of schedule or end of day, and for whatever reason, like, two actors are not available and you need to shoot your scene. 00:50:49 Ben Host Yeah. If you didn’t get, like, a good look at the—at the guy that plays Worf in this scene, I encourage you to go back and—and take a look at him, because he looks—[laughing]—he looks like a deer in headlights, man. He is like, “Uh…I want to hide. I don’t want to be here. I don’t like this.” 00:51:07 Adam Host Right. “This—this not what I’ve been trained to do.” 00:51:12 Ben Host [Laughing] It’s very, very funny. And Solok doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get why—why the team is celebrating. And that’s kind of the point, right? 00:51:20 Adam Host This is how he wins.
[Ben chuckles.]
Unclear how many books or papers Solok is going to write about this game or this incident in Quark’s. 00:51:32 Ben Host Yeah. 00:51:33 Adam Host Uh, but I don’t think this is going to have the desired effect that Sisko thinks it does.
[Ben chuckles.]
Solok has a very long memory and a unique attention on Ben Sisko that I don’t think anything is going to break. 00:51:47 Ben Host The final shot of the episode that—the team signs a baseball and they give it to Sisko. He tosses it up in the air, and in, like, a slow- motion fade, it crossfades to the station, and we go to credits. But did you like the episode, Adam? 00:52:04 Adam Host This may surprise you to hear, Ben, after—after the both of us just took our Louisville Sluggers to this thing.
[Ben chuckles warmly.]
I love this episode! 00:52:14 Ben Host Yeah, it’s a good episode [chuckles]. 00:52:15 Adam Host I thought—I thought it was so much fun. I think—
00:52:18 Ben Host Like, it’s a—it’s a rare episode that could have a script this bad and still be really fun to watch.
00:52:23 Adam host That makes it a miracle, I think. I think more than most other episodes, it really teases you about all the possibilities. And in a way, like, many episodes are incapable of. Like, we’ve talked about episodes where we’ve come up with interesting alts that we kind of craved. But, like, where is—where was Morn sitting in the stands, eating a buckets of seeds? Like— 00:52:51 Ben Host Right! 00:52:52 Adam Host —where is the green Gatorade that obviously the Vulcans drink?
00:52:56 Ben Host [Whispering] Ah, that would have been great!
00:52:57 Adam Host Like—the—and between that and, like, Bashir and Worf not being utilized like they could, what makes this episode fun is thinking about all of the possibilities. And—and in a strange way, thinking about all of them does not, uh, diminish how much fun the episode is. ‘Cause I think there’s something in its pacing that is just pretty fast, pretty light— 00:53:19 Ben Host Yeah. 00:53:20 Adam Host —pretty—pretty low-calorie episode.
00:53:22 Ben Host Yeah. It doesn’t have a B story. Like, it—it’s all A.
00:53:25 Adam Host Yeah.
00:53:26 Ben Host And that’s sometimes a recipe for a—an A that is, you know, not beefy enough to span an entire 45 minutes of television, but this keeps your interest and stays fun the entire time. 00:53:40 Adam Host It feels like everyone is having fun on this episode in a way they can’t suppress. 00:53:46 Ben Host Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that fun is infectious. 00:53:50 Adam Host Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool.
00:53:53 Ben Host You know what else is fun, Adam, is the priority one inbox of The Greatest Generation. Do you want to see if we have any transmissions? 00:54:00 Adam Host As soon as you began that statement, I knew I’d made a terrible mistake by closing my browser.
[Ben chuckles.]
I’m gonna go find those P1s. 00:54:11 Clip Clip Computer: [Beeps four times.] Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on secure channel. [More beeping.] 00:54:16 Music Transition "Push it to the Limit" by Paul Engemann, mixed with clips from various sources.
Ernie McCracken (Kingpin): We need a supplemental income. Roy Munson (Kingpin): Supplemental income? Ernie: Supplemental. Roy: Supplemental.
Ernie: Yeah, it’s extra. Ralph Offenhouse (TNG, "The Neutral Zone"): Why, the interest alone could be enough to buy this ship!
[Coins drop on a hard surface.]
[Music continues to play softly in the background of this segment, peppered by the ship’s computer repeating, “Captain Picard, priority one message.”] 00:54:26 Ben Host Adam, our first priority one message is from Joe. It’s to Ben and Adam. It goes like this, “I started listening to TGG last year, while watching TNG as my first ever Star Trek viewing experience. I’m about halfway through Deep Space Nine now, so still about 19 months behind live. It’s been fun to do my first ever Trek viewing with you guys and this show. You’ve made me a Trek convert. Can’t wait to catch up to this message. And keep up the great work!” 00:54:57 Adam Host Wow. Hey, does that make Joe a gold star Star Trek fan— 00:55:02 Ben Host Wow.
00:55:03 Adam Host —if his first time watching TNG is with us?
00:55:06 Ben Host I mean, that’s—that’s pretty special. I think that’s the ideal way to— to get into Star Trek. 00:55:13 Adam Host It really is. We’ve really corrupted Joe. 00:55:16 Ben Host [Chuckles] Indeed.
00:55:17 Adam Host That’s great. Uh, Ben, our second priority message is from Vadim. It is to Vadim. The message goes like this, “Dear A and B, is it selfish to send yourself a birthday wish?”
[Ben laughs.]
“The answer is yes, but I don’t care! Happy 40th birthday to me.” 00:55:34 Ben Host Wow! 00:55:35 Adam Host “Thanks, Gil, for introducing me to the pod and putting me within Kevin Bacon range of the hosts by way of your family connection to Raz.” 00:55:44 Ben Host Wow. 00:55:45 Adam Host “Thanks to Gil, Mike & Chaitanya for great hangs at SF Sketchfest!”
00:55:51 Ben Host Cool. 00:55:52 Adam Host “Thanks A and B for the amazing pod.”
00:55:54 Ben Host Wow!
00:55:55 Adam Host Oh, that reference to Sketchfest stabs me right in the heart.
00:55:58 Ben Host Yeah.
00:55:59 Adam Host I love Sketchfest. Um—
00:56:00 Ben Host I do, too. I’m—I’m anticipating that Sketchfest is not a 2021 thing that will be happening, and that makes me really sad. 00:56:12 Adam Host You remember the time we accidentally ordered Peking duck for the table, and no one else at the table wanted a whole Peking duck, so you and I ended up just, like, gritting our way through as much of that as we could at, like, 1:00 in the morning? 00:56:27 Ben Host Yeah, yeah. 00:56:28 Adam Host Mistakes were made! 00:56:29 Ben Host It’s, uh, one of the many things that is great about Sketchfest is the just total gluttony we engage in once—once we’ve done our live shows.
[Both laughs.] 00:56:40 Adam Host Ah. We’ve got a lot of great memories from Sketchfest, and it sounds like Vadim and co. do, too. Can’t wait to make it back there when we can. 00:56:50 Ben Host Yeah. Well, Adam, if people want to get a priority one message for the show, the way to do that is by heading to MaximumFun.org/jumbotron. It’s 100 bucks for a personal message and 200 for a commercial message. And we appreciate it, ‘cause it’s, uh, one of the few revenue streams we have for this thing. 00:57:12 Music Transition A techno song mixed with clips and soundbites from DS9.
Speaker: Gotta— Sisko: Get that—get that— Quark: Gold-pressed latinum Sisko: Get that—get that— Nog: Gold-pressed latinum! Sisko: Am I right? Ha ha! Hoo! Yeah!
Am I—am I right? Ha ha! Hoo!
Speaker: Gotta, gotta— Sisko: Get that—get that— Quark: Gold-pressed latinum Sisko: Get that—get that— Nog: Gold-pressed latinum! Quark: Latinum? Speaker: Latinum! Quark: Latinum? Speaker: Latinum! Distorted Speaker: Go-go-go-go-gold-pressed latinum! Nog: That’s a lot of yamok sauce!
[Cash register “cha-ching!” sound.]
[Music ends.] 00:57:30 Ben Host Hey, Adam. 00:57:31 Adam Host What’s that, Ben?
00:57:32 Ben Host Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda?
00:57:34 Music Transition Clips of TNG and Adam and Ben mixed with electric guitar.
Shimoda (TNG, "The Naked Now"): Incredible!
Adam & Ben: Druuunk Shimoda!
[Music ends abruptly.] 00:57:36 Adam Host Man, there are a lot of Shimodas in this episode. It is— 00:57:41 Ben Host Phew. It’s a real cavalcade of Shimodas.
00:57:43 Adam Host I mean, I can’t give the Shimoda to the field the way I would like. Here’s—here’s who I’ll give my Shimoda to. I’m gonna give my Shimoda to Odo. Because you never want to be caught jacking out by—by someone. And that’s what he’s doing when Kira walks by, uh, his security office. He’s practicing. 00:58:06 Ben Host Mm. 00:58:07 Adam Host He’s practicing his—his—his calling-people-out.
00:58:10 Ben Host Yeah.
00:58:11 Adam Host And I think—I think you gotta pull the shades for something like that.
00:58:14 Ben Host That’s something you don’t want to do with your back to a glass door. 00:58:20 Adam Host [Chuckles] Yeah, ‘cause all you see is shoulder roll. 00:58:22 Ben Host Mm-hmm.
00:58:23 Adam Host And, uh, who knows what that could be.
00:58:25 Ben Host People are gonna interpret that a lot of different ways. 00:58:28 Adam Host What about you, Ben?
00:58:29 Ben Host Um, my Shimoda is Kira for a moment very early in the episode that just—it—it made me—it was, like—it was my first laugh-out-loud moment of the episode. Sisko comes out of his meeting with Solok and says to Kira, like, “I need you to assemble the senior staff immediately.” And we cut to the wardroom, and Nog is in there? 00:58:53 Adam Host Oh, no. 00:58:54 Ben Host [Laughing] What does Kira think Nog’s rank is?
00:58:59 Adam Host That’s hilarious.
00:59:01 Ben Host So, uh, for—for—assuming that by, “senior staff,” Sisko meant “everyone including Nog,” Kira gets my drunk Shimoda. 00:59:12 Adam Host Maybe Nog is sitting down after having done the catering for the meeting.
[Ben laughs.]
Like, he wheeled in the, uh—the—the coffee cart. 00:59:21 Ben Host Yeah. I could see him, like, sitting in the—on—in a chair that’s up against the wall, you know? Like, a—like you see in a high-level political meeting. Like, the—the aides and assistants of the various Secretaries sit in the meeting but not at the table. 00:59:37 Adam Host There’s always a log of these meetings, but there’s also the need for physical notes to be taken, and so Nog’s role— 00:59:45 Ben Host Right. 00:59:46 Adam Host —is—is to do the minutes.
00:59:47 Ben Host [Chuckling] Mm-hmm.
00:59:48 Adam Host He’s gotta keep things on track.
00:59:50 Ben Host Yeah. Well, speaking of keeping things on track, Adam, uh, how do you feel about me heading over to gagh.biz/game, where we keep the Game of Buttholes— 01:00:01 Sound Effect Sound Effect [Thunder crash.] 01:00:02 Ben Host —The Will of the Prophets, and, uh, figuring out how next week’s episode is going to go? 01:00:09 Adam Host Game of Buttholes, a surprise around every corner for us. 01:00:14 Ben Host [Chuckles briefly] It’s true. No surprise, uh, is that next episode is season seven, episode five, “Chrysalis.” “Bashir becomes romantically involved with a genetically engineered patient?” 01:00:27 Adam Host [With curiosity] Mmm. 01:00:28 Ben Host He’s genetically engineered.
01:00:29 Adam Host “We both like the same beverages.”
[Ben chuckles.]
Uh, currently that runabout is on square 55, where, uh, one square ahead is a Looking At Each Other During, uh, a square that you and I definitely do not want to hit. 01:00:45 Ben Host [Chuckling softly] Yeah, we don’t want to get coronavirus. 01:00:47 Adam Host We—[chuckling]—we’re so committed to Game of Buttholes—
01:00:50 Sound Effect Sound Effect [Thunder crash.]
01:00:51 Adam Host —Will of the Prophets that, uh, one or both of us dies.
01:00:55 Ben Host [Chuckling] Yeah, we break quarantine and actually buy it because of this stupid podcast. 01:01:02 Adam Host Hey, you know what would be so—God, we would deserve it, too. Is—is that it would just be nothing but RSVP Ben and Adam on Twitter.
[Ben laughs deeply.]
That’s our legacy. 01:01:16 Ben Host Yeah. There it would be. 01:01:17 Adam Host Good job by us.
01:01:18 Clip Clip Falow (DS9, "Move Along Home"): You are required to learn as you play. Roll.
[The Wadi are tapping their klon peags (sticks) rhythmically, and continue during the segment. Clip audio and podcast audio are intertwined for the next several lines.] 01:01:22 Ben Host And I’m gonna roll… 01:01:24 [Dice roll. Tapping stops.]
Falow: Chula!
Crowd: [Laughing] Chula! Chula!
Quark: Did I win?!
Falow: Hardly!
[Clip audio ends.] 01:01:29 Ben Host And I rolled a fffour! So, I’ve, uh—I’ve jumped over Looking At Each Other During onto square 59. 01:01:38 Adam Host Nice. 01:01:39 Ben Host And, uh, that puts us in range of a Space Butthole and a Starship Mine square for the next time we roll. 01:01:47 Music Music “The Picard Song” begins to play quietly in the background. 01:01:48 Ben Host But for the rest of the week, people can, uh, go check out the online accounts of The Greatest Generation. We’re @GreatestTrek on, uh, Twitter and Instagram, and our buddy Bill Tilley is now running our social media accounts. 01:02:04 Adam Host Yeah. Bill Tilley doing a great job on the social media ones and twos. 01:02:09 Ben Host Yeah [chuckles briefly]. He’s got two turntables and a Photoshop account. 01:02:14 Adam Host Uh, music for the show created of course with the help of Dark Materia, generously offering up his work to you, me and Adam Ragusea for the theme and interstitials on our program. Can’t thank them enough. 01:02:30 Ben Host Yeah. And, uh, Adam Ragusea of course now YouTube sensation with the cooking channel. Just search, “Adam Ragusea.”
01:02:37 Adam Host This episode and every episode of The Greatest Generation is made possible by those that support it financially. You can do that by going over to MaximumFun.org/join. Get yourself on a program— 01:02:50 Ben Host Yeah. Do it. 01:02:51 Adam Host —monthly-style. It, uh, gives you access to a whole bunch of extra episodes and, uh, really helps keep the show going. 01:03:00 Ben Host It sure does. Lots of really, really fun bonus eps up there. 01:03:04 Adam Host With that, we’ll be back atcha next time with another great episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and an episode of The Greatest Generation: Deep Space Nine, which is genetically predisposed to being great.
[Ben chuckles.] 01:03:17 Music Transition "The Picard Song" fades up to full volume.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the USS Enterprise! Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the USS Enterprise!
Make make make-make-make-make make it so!
Jean-Luc Picard! Make it so!
Make make make-make-make-make make it so!
Jean-Luc Picard! Make it so!
(Make make make make make make make—)
Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the USS Enterprise! Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the USS Enterprise!
Make make make-make-make-make make it so!
Jean-Luc Picard! Make it so!
Make make make-make-make-make make it so!
[Echoing] Jean-Luc Picard—card—card—card—
[Song fades out.] 01:03:49 Music Transition A cheerful ukulele chord. 01:03:50 Speaker 1 Guest MaximumFun.org.
01:03:51 Speaker 2 Guest Comedy and culture.
01:03:53 Speaker 3 Guest Artist owned—
01:03:54 Speaker 4 Guest —audience supported.