United Nations FOURTH COMMITTEE, 1263rd GENERAL MEETING ASSEMBLY Friday, 19 January 1962 at 11.15 a.m. SIXTEENTH SESSION Official Records NEW YORK

CONTENTS regard Mr. Rugira as a representative of his Govern­ Page ment unless the General Assembly endorsed the re­ sults of the elections. Agenda item 49: Question of the future of Ruanda-Urundi: re­ 3, According to the information in the report of port of the United Nations Commission for the United Nations Commission for Ruanda-Urundi Ruanda-Urundi (continued) (A/4994 and Add.1 and Corr.1) and that given by the Hearings of Mr. Pierre Ngendandumwe, Administering Authority,!! the situation in Burundi Deputy Prime Minister of Burundi and was quiet but it was not so in Rwanda. He asked Mr. Mr. Amandin Rugira, President of the Ngendandumwe whether conditions in Rwanda had any Legislative Assembly of Rwanda (con- effect on the attitude of the Burundi Government con­ tinued) . • • • • • • • • • • • . • . • • . • . • • • . 657 cerning the unity of Ruanda-Urundi. 4. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister Chairman: Miss Angie BROOKS (Liberia). of Burundi) replied that he was not familiar with the situation in Rwanda. The situation in Burundi was on the whole calm, since the party in power had gained In the absence of the Chairman, Mr. Houaiss a large majority. Naturally, as in the case of any (Brazil), Rapporteur, took the Chair. election in which there were winners and losers, there was a certain amount of bitterness and dis­ AGENDA ITEM 49 content which had led to a few very localized in­ cidents. No doubt the Committee recalled the assas­ Question of the future of Ruanda-Urundl: report of the United sination of Prince Louis Rwagasore, the Prime Nations Commission for Ruanda-Urundi (A/4856, A/4865 Minister. He did not wish to bring that matter into and Corr.1, A/4970, A/4994 and Add.1 and Corr.1; AI . the discussion of the future status of the Territory C.4/516, 517 and Corr.1, 518, 519, 521, 522 and Add.1) but would prefer to speak about it later. (continued) Miss Brooks (Liberia), took the Chair. HEARINGS OF MR. PIERRE NGENDANDUMWE, 5. Mr. ABDEL WAHAB (United Arab Republic) said DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF BURUNDI AND that he did not expect Mr. Ngendandumwe to deal with MR. AMANDIN RUGIRA, PRESIDENT OF THE the problems of Rwanda: he merely wished to know LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF RWANDA(continued) whether those problems had had a.n effect on the atti­ tude of the Burundi Government concerning possible At the invitation of the Chairman, Mr. Pierre unity. Ngendandumwe, Deputy Prime Minister of Burundi and Mr. Amandin Rugira, President of the Legislative 6, Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister Assembly of Rwanda, took places at the Committee of Burundi) replied that the situation in Rwanda had table. certainly had some repercussions on the situation in the neighbouring country; the refugee problem was 1. Mr. RUGIRA (President of the Legislative Assem­ evidence of that. The Burundi Government, bearing bly of Rwanda) said that he wished to clear up any in mind the history and the aspirations of its people, misunderstanding which might have arisen at the was determined that Burundi should achieve independ­ previous meeting owing to lack of clarity regarding ence as a separate State. Once it was independent, it the procedure. After having made a statement at the would be prepared to discuss the possibility of union 1261st meeting, giving his Government's views, and with its neighbours. Rwanda and Burundi already having clarified that statement in response to ques­ formed an economic unity, and the Protocol of 21 De­ tions put to him by representatives, he had not at­ cember 1961 (A/C.4/517 and Corr.1) would tend to tended the following meeting. Later, when he had strengthen that economic unity. A Commission com­ listened to the debate from the public gallery, he had posed of representatives of the Administering Au­ not been in a position to ask for the floor in order to thority and of the Governments of Rwanda and Burundi reply to a question. He wished to make it clear that, was already at work to improve the economic union while he was willing to make an official statement on within the framework of two independent States. his Government's position and future policy as a member of that Government, he was not prepared to 7. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) thanked Mr. Rugira for be cross-examined as a petitioner. He was not com­ his explanation, which had fully satisfied his dele­ petent to discuss matters arising from General As­ gation. The question at issue was one of major im• sembly resolutions or to reply to questions relating to the period prior to his Government's coming to !! RapPort soumis par le Gouvernement beige A l'As~emblk g'nf­ power. rale des Nations Unies au sulet de l'adminlstration du Ruanda..Urutldl pendant l'arm!!e 1960 (Brussels, lmprimerie Fr. Van Muysewlnkel, 2. Mr. ABDEL WAHAB (United Arab Republic) ob­ 1961) p. 26. Transmitted to members of the Trusteeship CouncU by a served that his delegation would find it difficult to note of the Secretary-General (T/1583), 657 A/C.4/SR.1263 658 General Assembly - Sixteenth Session - Fourth Committee

portance and the Committee was most anxious to work of the evolution of Africa and of the world, and, ascertain the views of the countries concerned. as in other countries, the best formula would con­ 8. The General Assembly had adopted a number of tinue to be sought. He could not speak for the future resolutions laying stress on the importance of the or assert that other political ties might not be sought unity of the Trust Territory. In paragraph 15 of later, but his Government realized that political union resolution 1605 (XV) the General Assembly had re­ was not at present feasible and would not be feasible in the immediate future. iterated its oonviction that the best future for Ruanda­ Urundi lay in its accession to independence as a 13. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) drew attention to arti­ single, united and composite State. The United Nations cle 2 (g) of the Protocol concluded between the Bel­ had of course no moral or legal right to impose a gian Government and the Government of Bur.undi solution on a people against its wishes, but it was its (A/C.4/517 and Corr.1), which enumerated the powers duty to endeavour to persuade the people that their reserved to the Administering Authority until such best future lay in a single, united and composite time as Burundi achieved independence. He wished State. He referred to the reports of various Visiting for some elucidation of the statement that the Govern­ Missions to the Trust Territory which confirmed the ment of Burundi might ask for the intervention of the United Nations view that the future of the Territory metropolitan forces, which were under Belgian com­ was envisaged as a single State. Moreover, the Work­ mand. The situation in Burundi was calm and he ing Group sent to the Territory in 1959 by the Bel­ wondered whether the Government of Burundi antici­ gian Government had advocated a solution in terms pated that it might be obliged to ask for the inter­ of the future "community" of the Trust Territory,Y vention of the metropolitan forces for the maintenance 9. The United Nations Visiting Mission to Trust of law and order. Territories in East Africa, 1960 had stated in its 14, Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister report on Ruanda-UrundiY that UniM et progr~s of Burundi) pointed out that until Burundi achieved national (UPRONA), the party at present in power in full independence the Trusteeship Agreement re­ Burundi, proposed that consideration should be given mained in force and the Administering Authority was to a free confederation for Burundi and Rwanda with therefore responsible for the maintenance of order a supra-national authority, the composition of which in the Territory. The police under the authority of should be determined by the councils of the two the Government of Burundi would maintain order in States. That view did not appear to be in line with normal circumstances, but if a situation were to Mr. Ngendandumwe's statements and he would like to arise in which they were unable to do so the Govern­ know whether UPRONA had changed its attitude since ment of Burundi would request the intervention of the its assumption of power after the elections. metropolitan forces under Belgian command. 10. :rvir. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister 15. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) asked who was the pres­ of Burundi) replied that the attitude of his party had ent Chief of Police in Burundi. not basically changed, but had been revised and clari­ fied in the light of developments and the realities of 16. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister the new situation as well as of past history. Burundi of Burundi) replied that the Minister of the Interior wanted independence as Burundi: once it was in­ and of Information in the Government of Burundi was dependent, political union or unions would be con­ the authority responsible for the maintenance of sidered, and even sought, with neighbouring coun­ order, but that during the interim period before the tries, From the economic point of view the union of achievement of independence the senior officers of Rwanda and Burundi was to be maintained, but with­ the police force were of European origin. in the. framework of two politically separate States. 17. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) wondered why the The la:te Prime Minister of Burundi had begun to con­ Government of Burundi had established its capital at sider the various possibilities of political unification Usumbura, which had been chosen by the Administer­ which might ultimately emerge after independence. ing Authority as the capital of the whole Trust Terri­ 11. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) said that he understood tory, whereas the traditional capital of Burundi was from the reply that, so far as the Burundi Govern­ Kitega. ment was concerned, the door was not necessarily 18. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister closed to the possibility of future union or alliance of Burundi) pointed out that Usumbura was in Burundi. with a.ny neighbouring countries. In view of the fact It had been chosen by the Administering Authority as that political unity could facilitate economic develop­ the capital of the Trust Territory for reasons of ment, , he asked whether that Government intended to administrative convenience, Kitega was the adminis­ ,initiate negotiations with Rwanda concerning political trative centre for Burundi in the same way as Kigali union in the foreseeable future, and how long it was for Rwanda, likely to be before such negotiations were initiated with a view to some form of political union with 19, U TIN MAUNG (Burma) noted from the report of Rwanda or with other neighbouring countries. the United Nations Commission for Ruanda-Urundi (A/4994 and Add.1 and Corr.1, paras. 392 and 413) 12, Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister that whereas the Government of Rwanda comprised of Burundi) stressed that he had not been speaking in eleven portfolios, that of Burundi had only ten. In the terms of the political union of Rwanda and Burundi. case of Rwanda, but not of Burundi, a Minister for That question had been seriously considered and the Foreign Relations had already been appointed. He decision had been that each State must accede to in­ asked what was the reason for the discrepancy be­ dependence separately. His country was not, how­ tween the two States. ever, isolationist; it would advance within the frame- 20. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister Y Official Records of the Trusteeship Council, Twenty-sixth Session, of Burundi) replied that his Government had decided Supplement No. 3, para. 399. that as long as the Trusteeship Agreement remained W Ibid., para. 409. in force it would not set up a Ministry of Foreign 1263rd meeting - 19 January 1962 659 Affairs, for such a Ministry would not be able to the achievement of independence. Burundi had trained exercise any real functions, external relations being officials, but in insufficient numbers, and his Govern­ among the powers reserved to the Belgian Govern­ ment intended to ask the United Nations to examine ment under the Protocol. Since the signing of the the country's future needs in that respect. Protocol, and in preparation for independence, the 29. Mr. EL SANOUSI (Sudan) welcomed the fact that Government of Burundi had appointed an official to the Committee's debate on the question of the future deal with external relations, who had accompanied of Ruanda-Urundi was being attended by the leaders the Deputy Prime Minister to New York. of that Trust Territory. He assured them that it was 21. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) pointed out that article 1 not the intention of the Committee to prejudge their of annex B to the Protocol stated "the Government of future. The only reason why so much stress was Burundi shall, if it so desires, establish an internal being laid on the desirability of Ruanda-Urundi's department of information". There was nosuchprovi­ acceding to independence as a single and composite sion annexed to the Protocol for Rwanda. He asked State was that the members of the Committee had the whether the Minister of the Interior and of Informa­ true interests of the people of the Trust Territory at tion had available to him facilities for the dissemina­ heart. tion of information not only about the United Nations 30. He noted that both Mr. Ngendandumwe and Mr. but also relating to Government policy. Rugira had stated that they were strongly in favour of 22. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister economic unity for Rwanda and Burundi but that they of Burundi) said that previously there had been no in­ rejected political unity in equally strong terms. He formation service and it had had to be set up. The wished to know whether the leaders of Ruanda-Urundi facilities at the disposal of the Minister of the In­ regarded economics and politics as being in two terior and of Information included a 50-kilowatt water-tight compartments and were unaware of the transmitter for local broadcasting and a weekly close relationship between the two. publication. He could also arrange to obtain reliable 31. Mr. RUGIRA (President of the Legislative As­ information relating to the security of the State. The sembly of Rwanda) replied that his Government services in question were being set up in anticipation appreciated the fact that economics and politics were of the achievement of independence, but for the time interrelated. First and foremost, however, it wished being were under the authority of the Trusteeship to proceed with economic development in close co­ Administration. operation with Burundi and other neighbouring coun­ 23. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) referred to annex B of tries. It was difficult for a country on the eve of the Protocol, which related to immigration control independence to reach decisions on matters which and the issue of entry visas. He asked whether the might lead to political clashes. A country's economy­ Administering Authority had undertaken any training which conditioned its viability-would be adversely to familiarize the people of Burundi with the formali­ affected by any mistakes in the field of politics. ties of immigration control. Rwanda and Burundi felt the need for economic co­ operation and were agreed that no clashes lay ahead. 24. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister When the two Governments assumed full responsi­ of Burundi) said that indigenous officials were already bility for the affairs of their respective countries, employed in the department concerned and were they would examine political issues. familiar with such problems as were likely to arise in that connexion. 32. He could not imagine the United Nations forcing a solution upon the people against their will. 25, U TIN MAUNG (Burma) drew attention to arti­ cle 6 of the Protocol relating to existing joint ser­ 33. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister vices in Ruanda-Urundi and asked whether the Deputy of Burundi) said that his Government was fully aware Prime Minister of Burundi knew of any matters at of the fact that economics and politics were not in present in dispute between the Republic of the Congo water-tight compartments but that one could affect (Leopoldville) and Ruanda-Urundi. the other. The point at issue, however, was whether economics would influence politics or vice versa. If 26. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister it could be assumed that the former would be the of Burundi) replied that there had been a customs case, and taking into account the acknowledged need union between the Trust Territory and the Congo be­ for economic unity, it would follow that political union fore the latter country's achievement of independ­ was desirable. At that stage, however, political reali­ ence. There had also been, for example, savings ties had to be taken into account. Burundi and Rwanda banks which operated in both the Congo and Ruanda­ were two separate States with traditionally distinct Urundi; their present status had yet to be determined. organizations; their people had distinct national feel­ It was for those reasons that article 6 had been in­ ings and showed no desire to live together; moreover, cluded in the Protocol. The whole question was under the two States had different r~gimes. In such circum­ study by his Government, but he could not say exactly stances political union would constitute a real danger what disputes there were between the Government of to economic progress. Political dissension and strug­ the Congo (Leopoldville) and Ruanda-Urundi. gles would destroy the atmosphere of confidence and 27. U TIN MAUNG (Burma) asked whether the Ad­ security which encouraged investment and fruitful ministering Authority had trained civilian and techni­ labour. Consequently, political union would be a de­ cal cadres in preparation for the achievement of structive and not a constructive influence on the independence and whether the Government of Burundi economy. The Government of Burundi was determined had prepared and trained such indigenous cadres. not to take unrealistic steps which it deemed to be dangerous and useless. It wished to do what was 28. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister realistically possible, namely, to work for economic of Burundi) pointed out that it was seldom that any union. It realized, however, that economics might under-developed country had a sufficiency of trained gradually pave the way to political solutions. For that indigenous cadres. That fact need not, however, delay reason his Government sought separate independence 660 General Assembly - Sixteenth Session - Fourth Committee for Burundi as a first step, leaving the possibility of warranted on the basis of actual use. The two Govern­ the formation of larger units for a subsequent stage. ments had decided to retain what was necessary for the economic viability of the two States but to elimi­ 34. :M;r. EL SANOUSI (SUdan) said that the statement nate any arrangements which might lead to· inter­ by the Deputy Prime Minister of Burundi had further ference by one of them in the affairs of the other. strengj;hened his conviction that the economic and political fields were closely interrelated. He asked 39. Mr. AZAMBUJA (Brazil) asked why it had been what steps were being taken to ensure that the mis­ found necessary to liquidate the joint air service and trust which clearly existed in the area produced no to set up separate administrations. adverse effect on economic co-operation. 40. Mr. RUGIRA (President of the Legislative As­ 35. Mr. NGENDANDUMWE (Deputy Prime Minister sembly of Rwanda) said that air services were of of Burundi) replied that the Commission to which he great importance for foreign affairs and trade. Each had already referred, and on which the Administering State should be free to have contacts with the outside Authority, Burundi and Rwanda were each repre­ world without bowing to the wishes of any other State sented by one member, was studying ways of improv­ or imposing its own wishes upon another. If it was ing the organizational aspects of economic union on possible to preserve joint services without any danger the basis of the existence of two independent States of such interference, he would be in favour of such a of Rwanda and Burundi. He could not give any precise course. At the present stage, however, it was im­ details but was of the opinion that the best safeguard possible to know how matters would develop. The was the fact that both States felt a need for economic present situation and the outlook were good and union. Rwanda had full confidence in its neighbour, but it 36. Mr. EL SANOUSI (Sudan) thanked Mr. Ngendan­ needed guarantees that there would be no interference dumwe and Mr. Rugira for their replies. He wished with its imports and exports. Again, from the practi­ to reassure them that the Committee was anxious cal point of view, decentralization was preferable, to remove all signs of bitterness and mistrust which since otherwise traffic between Rwanda and, for contaminated the atmosphere in that part of Africa. instance, Kampala would have to follow an indirect Whatever happened, the will of the people of Ruanda­ route via Usumbura. Urundi would prevail. As soon as their free will was 41. Mr. KOSCZIUSKO-MORIZET (France) said that clear to the Committee, the latter would be the first he attached extreme importance to the question of the to bow to it. jo~nt services and was surprised to see that, since 37. Mr. AZAMBUJA (Brazil) said that although both Rwanda and Burundi had agreed to retain a measure the Deputy Prime Minister of Burundi and the Presi­ of economic unity, that unity was not being extended dent of the Legislative Assembly of Rwanda had made to technical services such as those listed in article 2 frequent references to economic union, his delegation (~), (Q) and (f) of the Protocol relating to existing was under the impression that the result of the steps joint services in Ruanda-Urundi. In his view, there now being taken in the Trust Territory would be to was no need for precipitate action with a view to dismantle an existing economic union rather than to dismantling existing joint services. He noted Mr. create one. He asked the President of the Legislative Rugira's replies to the questions by the Brazilian Assembly of Rwanda to explain the financial or eco­ representative. He would like to point out that it was nomic grounds on which it had been decided to liqui­ often in the interests of politically separate States to date the joint services listed in article 2 (!!) to (h) of enter into arrangements with their neighbours with a the Protocol relating to existing joint services in view to setting up joint services, the cost of'which Ruanda-Urundi (A/C.4/517 and Corr.1). could thus be shared. Joint services were more practical and less expensive. The heavy cost ofmain­ 38. Mr. RUGIRA (President of the Legislative As­ taining separate services was detrimental. to a coun­ sembly of Rwanda) replied that those joint services try's independence and made any aid to such a had been established by the Administering Authority country less effective. He hoped that in the course of as a matter of administrative convenience. There the debate the representatives of Rwanda and Burundi were political considerations involved in the problem and perhaps the Belgian delegation, might provide of joint services. Moreover, there was the possibility additional explanations on the subject. that one partner might be called upon to defray a larger share of the cost of joint services than was The meeting rose at 1 p.m.

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