Oral History interview with Bert Dutil
December 12th 2010
Kathleen Mundell, Cindy Larock, interviewers.
Cindy: Do you have any memories of celebrating Christmas in the Franco American Community year and years ago but also other things? You are also one of the movers and shakers with the Franco American Veterans – he’s very active in all sorts of things – and also this Drum and bugle Corps that performed in Quebec. You can talk about what you want whatever you want. Patty is going to do a little balance check to the sound of your voice.
Bert: Sure.
Kathleen: So can you just introduce yourself for me, please.
Bert: My name is Bert Dutil.
Cindy: Okay, can you spell your last name?
Bert: D-U-T-I-L
Cindy: Perfect:
Kathleen: You grew up in Lewiston?
Bert: Yes I did.
K: And how long ago was that?
B: 1932.
K: And what was Lewiston Like then?
B: It was simple; we had nice – and where we lived, of course, there were mostly Franco People.
Cindy: Where did you live?
B: On the corner of Maple and Lisbon St. and we had that Dumont store , Denette and Gauvreau, and the other one across the street… I’m trying to think of the name, Diette market right across the street . But if you go further up two streets further up Knox street, that’s when you start having the Irish and the English people. We normally did get along very well , you know. We learned English that way because we never spoke English at home when I was born and so on, everything was strictly French.
K: Did you go to different Churches?
B: No, just St. Peter’s was my church. You had to walk there, you didn’t take a bus like in school. It was a little ways you know, but we always went to St. Peters and I used to sing in the Petit Chanteurs, so that’s how I learnt a little bit about singing.
K: What is that? Is it a chorus at the church?
B: It’s a choir. It’s a boy’s choir while you are in school. After school you are out.
K: So do you still sing?
B: I sang for nine years with the Magic Pop[s] Chorus. Every time we gave a show there were always 3 to 5 songs in the show that were in French. There were a lot of Franco people coming in to see the show. I left them and a year after some of the group left there started the “Just Us Entertainers”; we just had two shows at the Franco Center this past weekend. I’m no longer involved. It is getting too much for me.
K: Francos group really like to sing!
B: Yes, normally we do.
K: Why is that?
B: We talked about Christmas…we usually start on Christmas day. Everybody went to Mémère, - grandma – all the time and Pépère, you know, and that is when we opened most of our gifts, although each family had their one or two gifts that’s it – the rest had to be at Mémère and Pépère[‘s] all the time. Of course, we spent the whole Christmas day there, normally, because then we had a big meal and then, of course, we sang a little and so on. There wasn’t too many people playing music though in our family. Most of the families had musicians but we didn’t. But we sang. I remember every Saturday night normally my grandparents had three other couples with them and they went to one apartment or the other in town and so on and had a glass of beer. That’s all they did all night long - sat and sang French songs. I used to love it when they babysat me. They sang all the songs and so on.
K: What were the names of some of your favorite songs?
B: Oh my God, there were quite a few. I remember most of the Christmas songs and of course by being in one of the groups that sings, one of my things is that I had to sing French songs for Christmas or during the different shows. Because there was only 5 or 6 that was able to just pick up and sing the songs while other s had a hard time or they did not speak French too much.
You see I just lost my mother last year and every time I went to see her it was strictly in French. She understood English, she could speak English a little but that was it. Most of the family has been like that except now the grown up kids they might know some of the words in the song buy can’t hardly make them speak French and that’s too bad for us.
K: Would you sing a French song for us?
B: (Laughs)
K: Would you mind?
B: My problem is that I don’t remember words most of the time. I can sing almost every song you can imagine if I have the words and so on. You got a French one or an English one? (Laughs)
C: Ces sont en français -
B : Ah, oui!
C : You want to sing that one? Give it a try.
B: If I remember the whole thing. (sings) That is good enough
C: You haven’t lost it!
B: I sing with groups but long longer on stage.
K: When you sing in groups, does it remind you of your grandparents?
B: Oh, a lot of them do. Some of the songs I don’t even remember, I could never find the words they used to sing. But then you forget them, we went in the military and you forget these songs. I used to sing a few around Christmas time in the military in French that I remembered and I made sure I had the words with me because you forget the words when you don’t say them often enough so it’s not hard to forget. They used to love it to hear French.
But also, I worked for awhile with the United Nations in Korea, before they signed the armistice and we had three generals that spoke French so all of a sudden I get a call from my superior. He says, “you know we need you here a minute.” I go over there and the club that they have. “We need to have you sing and couple of Frenc h songs.” I did and they were so enthused with an American, who knows how to Speak French. They don’t believe that some times!
C: How long were you in the military? I was two years in regular and 14 years in the armor reserve for which every two weeks we used to go to Fort Dix New Jersey and train recruits.
C: You never went to France in the military?
B: No, no, I wish I would have. I know one of the guys when we left together had the chance; they wanted him to go to France and he didn’t. I said, “it should have been me!”
K: Now, when you spoke to the French generals, did they think you were speaking French in a different way? B: Oh yes, they did. But I didn’t speak to them very much. They would come to me if there was a word or two or didn’t understand or a phrase, a letter they received in English, or something like that. So I didn’t do too too much for them so it was a surprise because they knew enough English, but it was just to make sure. At that time I was in the front line. I loved that and then when my commander told me, he opened my records and says “it says here that “you talk French, you read French, and you write French?” I said, “Yes sir.” He says “Pack your things you are going to a regiment” and from the regiment I went to division. From Division you went to command post. They look at that, it’s a laugh in a way, this lieutenant comes over and opens a French book and says, “Would you read this?” I would bet a hundred dollars that he did not know a word I was saying. I just said it in French and he says, “Ok, you’re it; you’re going to around Panmunjon,” where they were signing the armistice; that’s where all around the generals met – we had a Belgian, a French and some place, I don’t know – they had colored people - but I can’t remember the country and they spoke French when they got together they all the time. So they asked me one in awhile to come over once in awhile and read the letter to them or translate part of the letter to them. Otherwise, that is the French I had. So, it helped me get out from the war.
C: But you were born in Lewiston?
B: Oh Yes.
C: Your parents?
B: My mother in Canada, my father and my [paternal] grandfather in the States. They all spoke French.
K: Have you passed on French to your own family?
B: (whispers) I don’t have a family.
K: Oh you don’t?
B: No, I got married and it did not work out. I helped my relatives and cousins and so on. Sometimes we talk to the kids in French. Some of them I am so glad that at least they understand. Because their mothers, all of them, their fathers don’t speak French but their mothers did, the St. Pierre’s.
K: Do you think, the new generation, is going to be able to keep speaking French?
B: I doubt it. I wish they would. They pick up words and so on. When you say something in French, you are talking to the mother and so on…they say, “I know what you said, I know what you said” but you try to make them say it but it’s very very rare because they think people are going to laugh at them because it might not be right, you know. I say “If you say it, I will correct you”, but it doesn’t always work that way.
C: Can you tell us something about the Pine Tree Warriors and how that started? B: It started in 1957; we were playing before that time with Le Club Passe-Temps, les raquateurs. The Past Times Snowshow Club. We started at 15 years old and you had to have a family member in it to be able to join it. My father was a director so that helped.
C: [Director] of the club?
B: Yes, of the club’s drum and bugle corps. I started with the cymbals and then I went on on the snare drum, then I went on the bells, which is glockenspiel. I never knew that name except in the military. Somebody told me “Oh you know how to play glockenspiel!” I said, “What’s that?” I didn’t know, so from then we paraded in the winter, we rarely ever paraded in the summer because it was a French group, the snowshoers. We had five or six drum corps in Lewiston.
C: Did you play at the winter carnival?
B: No, no, that was with the Warriors. So then, we started, a bunch of us, we were getting older 17, 18, 20 years old and we decided we wanted a drum corp that would parade in the summer like some we have seen in parades. We went to the American Legion, Post 153, in Auburn and asked them if we could practice there. They said, yes, for about a year and a half we did. But the idea of a veteran’s post, any money that you bring in, even if it’s a baseball [?], it has to be turned in to the treasurer of the post. They called it quartermaster. So whenever we needed a stick or something – and most of us did not have much money at that time – we would ask the treasurer and it would take a week or two. So, this poor guy had had no drum stick to play with, ‘cause he broke on or something like that.
After a year and a half we got out and formed The Pine Tree Warriors. That started and my gosh after a few years we got our own building on Lincoln Street which was the old Dominican Block. We bought that and used mostly the downstairs as well as the upper floor to use for the Color Guard, because they twirled and threw flags, threw sabers and rifles in the air so they needed the 28 ft high ceiling. It was good for them. We started the drum and bugle corps. That drum and bugle corps went to the carnival in Québec three times. We also went to the World’s Fair in Montreal, remember I told you that? You’d have to do a little demonstration and play your music. I said, my gosh they know we were Americans but what if I gave the commands in French? Half of the kids did not know French you know. We trained enough that I could have said any word and they would moved to that position. So, I said the commands in French. The Canadians said, “They’re Americans? How can they be Americans, they speak French?”
It was a nice time, they had lots of places to go visit and so on. It was pretty good. We ended after 30 years.
C: What year was that?”
B: Let’s see…1979, 30 years ‘59 [sic].
C: And most of the members were Franco-American. B: A lot of them were, but we took anybody that wanted to. The first time we went to Canada for a summer contest. we had a little black kid in the drumline. Oh my gosh, you should have seen their faces! I guess they never saw a black kid with a lot of white kids around it. He was a good drummer, we didn’t care who they were and so on. We had some nice times. We passed through maybe 4-5,000 kids in 30 years. Because for one year – was it ’65-’66? No, ‘75-’76 – we had three drum and bugle corps. We had the little kids, we called them the cadets and we had the regular ones that competed all over the New England states and so on and so forth. We had our own Alumni drum and bugle corps just for a few parades during the year.
K: What’s the snowshoe club?
B: When did the snowshoe clubs start? Oh gosh, the snowshoe clubs started in 1925 I believe. It started in Canada way before that, 1800 and something. It was mostly organized to have competition on snow shoes for any age from little kids and up to so on. They started parades in Canada and I guess some Americans saw that, like Louis-Phillipe Gagne and so on. So they decided to start one in Lewiston.
Well, the first club in Lewiston was the Les Montangards and then it started booming; we had up to seven different clubs in the Lewiston-Auburn area. Now there are only two or three. There’s not more drum and bugle corps, just a few people that go and bring kids for snowshoes. So it continues but it’s a lot smaller. We they had one of the conventions in Lewiston, you know it was on the newspaper, those little things I don’t remember, 100 years ago, 50 years ago…they had my father in charge of the convention which bought in 5, 6, 7 thousand people and they used to come on the Grand Trunk [Railroad], the Canadians came on trains and so on. Oh my God, we had so much for for three days. All the time! It was very, very nice.
We are still a little bit active, my club is still going; it’s known as the Indians Snowshoe Club, Les Indiens. They have a convention in February in Lewiston but you might have 3 or 400 instead of thousands.
K: Do you still snowshoe?
B: I don’t, but when we first started I was with the Past time Club; my father was in charge before we started the Indians and we decided, we are still young, 17 and 18 years old we decided to race, so we started racing during the year. I don’t remember the name of the gentleman that used to be in charge – you had to have a trainer with you all the time – all of a sudden he calls the club and says, you know, “I’m not doing anything any more.” We had a big competition that weekend! We had about 7 or 8 [people] of our age, they liked to compete and so on. Finally we got together and said, “what are we going to do? There is no one else. You got to have a trainer or else you can’t compete. The club can’t compete. Who must pick the trainer?” So I never raced after that. I was always the trainer, the one in charge of getting the kids out to compete and so on but I liked it.
K: So you must know what it takes to make a good snowshoer then.
B: Enough. K: Did you know anyone that made snowshoes?
B: We used to know a gentleman that used to make them in Norway. We used to buy all out snowshoes in Norway at that time.
C: Norway, Maine.
B: Yes, but now you don’t see wooden snowshoes any more unless they’re old or people have old ones or something like that. They’re a lot easier and they don’t weigh hardly anything.
K: The wooden ones?
B: No, the new snowshoes they got now , it’s unbelievable. So you like the metal one better? Well, I would - I’ve never tried, I don’t have time! I’m always training and so on.
C: Do you still do some training?
B: I do, I help the kids once in awhile if I got to the convention or something like that. I don’t go to the convention like I used to. It’s not as much fun as when we used to have thousands of people, you know.
C: Can you talk about when Lewiston used to have the winter carnival here, was that during convention? Can you explain about the ice palaces?
B: Oh yes that were great. Every time they had what they called the International convention, when Canada comes down, we made an ice castle. I had two pictures to show, I should have bought them to show. I know you got one here but I’ve got some others.
C: You should bring them. So explain about the ice palace, how that happened.
B: Normally it wasn’t hard because there was a lot of people that made ice at that time – to bring it home, put them in the fridge. We used to get them and have a lot of snowshoers that would help them out. They would get them by block, bring them up by crane and so on. It was beautiful; one of the best ones I have seen was the one in Kennedy Park. I’m not sure if it is was 1946 or 1952, that was one of the best they they’ve ever had. That was great. The Dewitt Hotel was still there.
C: Were they always in Kennedy Park or were they at different places around town?
B: No, the first one of course was on Maine Street and most of the others were in Kennedy Park. The last one we ever had was at the Montagnards Snowshoe Club parking lot. He built it on the end of the club so he wouldn’t use so much ice. The reason why they cut out most of the time was because of the insurance. You can never tell if something breaks or something kills somebody, or injured somebody, so the clubs couldn’t afford the insurance, so they stopped.
K: So who was in charge of building them? B: Normally they still have one or two that does ice for some reason or so on. I don’t for whatever reason they have but they usually get that person to be in charge and cut the ice, get it in and so on but they have plenty of people to help.
K: Was it a local person?
B: Most of the time it was always local person, or from Sabattus.
C: Did you actually help build Ice Castles?
B: No, no I had enough to do, I did not need to build I the Ice Palaces!
K: Would someone be paid to do that, or was it voluntary?
B: Someone would volunteer.
K: When did it stop?
B: Oh my gosh, I think it stopped the year after…I think it was around 1986 or 87. We had more conventions after that, but again, they were told they needed insurance and so on, nobody could afford it so they didn’t do it. Its too bad we couldn’t do it under the city, and the city use their insurance and put it in Kennedy park. But it didn’t work that way and I was not in charge.
K: Are there events today that bring the Franco community together?
B: Well the only thing we have now is the Franco Festivals, that is the only thing that brings it in.
K: Is that related to the balloon festival?
B: No, not really, they bring a lot more people.
K: When is the Franco Festival?
B: The Franco Festival is usually in June all the time. They are going to do it this year at the Franco Heritage Center, from what I heard, in one day. It’s the idea if they get that group from Canada – [unintelligible] the place is jammed but it is expensive. I don’t know how much it is but I heard in the past how much they were paying. That is too bad cause if they could have them for the three days, Oh my God, they would make money. Of Course it is expensive but the place is smaller and you can’t put thousand people there, so that is too bad.
K: I just had one other question about Christmas. Could you just mention some of the food you enjoyed being served?
B: Oh! Tourtière, meat pies. Everybody went for the meat pies more than anything else I can imagine. Otherwise, they always ham and some chicken, things like that but the meat pie was the big thing. I remember my grandmother used to spend almost a week making those because she needed a lot , you know. When we left, my mother, my father and myself, we took one or two with us. The other family members did the same thing so she had to make a lot. It was mostly meat pie for us. Other families had different things beside the meat pies. We did have chicken and ham and so on, but we dived on the meat pies because we had that about once a year. Maybe on an anniversary my grandma would make that as well. And of course, all the ladies knew how to make meat pies, too, but it was her place for meat pies. Oh my gosh!
C: And for dessert, did you have sugar pie, tarte au sucre.
B: No, we were not sugar pie people, I guess. We did have bread pudding. They put something else in it to make it taste different, but I don’t know what it was. We had a sauce of course, like usual, but don’t ask me what was in it. How they made it, I don’t know. I’m not a cook.
That’s about the dessert we had. But in our time, you know, we didn’t have much dessert. It was mostly eating good food, and so on.
K: Did you put maple syrup on snow?
B: Oh yes, I make day trips for seniors, and every year we go to St…Lake Megantic
C: In Québec
B: Yes, and there are three different places where they have sugar pies, cabins au sucre, and they love it! You should see the bags they bring home with maple sugar and everything else. We go to the grocery store and they buy their butter. You see, I can’t hardly eat sausage around here; I can’t hardly digest it. I go there and it’s about this big, I can eat a dozen – it doesn’t bother me. They don’t use preservatives like we do; that’s one big reason. But we bring back a lot of maple sugar and syrup and so on!