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Interviews of Witnesses House of Representatives INTERVIEWS OF WITNESSES BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE EVENTS SURROUNDING THE 2012 TERRORIST ATTACK IN BENGHAZI HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, 2012–2016 VOLUME 1 OF 11 Printed for the use of the Select Committee on the Events Surrounding the 2012 Terrorist Attack in Benghazi ( Available on the Internet: www.fdsys.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 22–153 WASHINGTON : 2016 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512–1800; DC area (202) 512–1800 Fax: (202) 512–2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402–0001 HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI TREY GOWDY, South Carolina, Chairman LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia ELIJAH CUMMINGS, Maryland JIM JORDAN, Ohio Ranking Minority Member PETER ROSKAM, Illinois ADAM SMITH, Washington MIKE POMPEO, Kansas ADAM SCHIFF, California MARTHA ROBY, Alabama LINDA SA´ NCHEZ, California SUSAN BROOKS, Indiana TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois PROFESSIONAL STAFF PHILIP G. KIKO, Staff Director and General Counsel SUSANNE SACHSMAN GROOMS, Minority Staff Director (II) PREFACE This volume includes transcripts of interviews conducted before the Oversight and Government Reform Committee of the House of Representatives. The records of these interviews became records of the Select Committee pursuant to H. Res. 567 (113th Congress) and are included in the publication of witness interviews conducted by the Select Committee for completeness of the record. (III) C O N T E N T S Page Interview of Diplomatic Security Agent #19 ......................................................... 1 Interview of Charlene Lamb ................................................................................... 127 Interview of Special Assistant to Under Secretary Patrick Kennedy ................. 209 Interview of Gregory Nathan Hicks ....................................................................... 309 Interview of Raymond Douglas Maxwell ............................................................... 459 Interview of Scott Bultrowicz ................................................................................. 613 Interview of Eric Boswell ........................................................................................ 775 Interview of Elizabeth Dibble ................................................................................. 903 Interview of Elizabeth Jones .................................................................................. 1047 Interview of Lee Lohman ........................................................................................ 1217 Interview of William Roebuck ................................................................................ 1359 (V) INTERVIEW OF DIPLOMATIC SECURITY AGENT #19 BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, OCTOBER 9, 2012 2 APPEARANCES FOR THE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM THOMAS A. ALEXANDER, Senior Counsel BRIEN A. BEATTIE, Professional Staff Member SUSANNE SACHSMAN GROOMS, Minority Chief Counsel CARLOS FELIPE URIARTE, Minority Counsel FOR THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE JOSHUA R. BLUMENFELD, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Senate Affairs, Bureau of Legislative Affairs JOSHUA L. DOROSIN, Assistant Legal Adviser for Management, Office of the Legal Adviser 3 3 Chairman Issa. Thank you for being here. You obviously are aware of the nature of our investigation and some of the statements that have been made on both sides. What we want to hear is your observations, both Benghazi and Tripoli, and then even though they may not ask in details, feel free to talk about other experiences you have had or other anecdotal, because this investigation is not limited to Libya. By definition, we are concerned about the safety throughout the world of our men and women who represent us. Mr. I appreciate it. Chairman Issa. That is pretty much it. And the pros will ask the questions. Mr. Thank you. Mr. Chaffetz. Do you want him to be sworn in or anything like that? Mr. Alexander. No swearing in. Did you have a question? Mr. Chaffetz. First of all, I want to thank you for your service. A lot of good Americans serve overseas in difficult and tumultuous situations. We had the tragic death of four Americans. Our committee, the Oversight Committee, we just want to know about the truth, what happened, and then eventually we want to also work towards the reform part, because the other name of our committee is Oversight and Government Reform. So we need a very candid, explicit, detailed perspective of what happened on the ground in real time as you personally saw it, including your impressions of what happened along the way. But our goal is to understand it so we can make it better 4 4 and make sure, as Congressman Issa said, that these types of situations never, ever happen again. So we have interviewed some folks that you have had interaction with, but we want your personal perspective and your expertise and want, need and expect your candid answers to the details of these questions. Mr. Absolutely, sir. That is why I am here, is the truth, candid answers and help in any way that I can. Mr. Dorosin. The phone ringing just reminded me, we are prepared to go on in a classified basis. Chairman Issa. Everything is right in the room. However, the assumption is, if you will excuse me for one second, is we will remain at an unclassified level. If there is a discussion about going classified, they will stop recording as we essentially debate the merits of it, including, if necessary, discussion of why you think all or part of if would be at that level. Then we would return to unclassified, leaving that as a mark on a notebook to be picked up in one single classified session. That is my hope, is that we figure out everything that couldn't be said at unclassified and take it at the end in all likelihood. Mr. Chaffetz. This is Congressman Cummings, our ranking member of the committee. Chairman Issa. The good news, , is you don't have to worry about any of that. It will be argued at that end of the table. Mr. Dorosin. Thank you for that clarification, and to make sure Mr. understands, if you think you need to get into classified 5 5 materials, please just let us know. Mr. Understood. Chairman Issa. Mr. Cummings and I have one interesting reflection I would like you to know -- Mr. Chaffetz too. Congress doesn't recognize and will not recognize "for official use only," "sensitive." Those are not classified. We would note it, but we would continue. Anything below secret is in fact just a name on a piece of paper. And I think it is important to understand that. So if you have seen papers that say "for official use only," "State Department sensitive," that is crap. Mr. Understood. Chairman Issa. For all of us that have been in the executive branch over time, we all had to respect it and reflect that you get in trouble if it was on a piece of paper. For purposes of Congress, we have never and will never recognize those levels, because the other levels were created by Congress, these were created by people who didn't want embarrassing things sometimes put out. And by the way, we respect that. It is a good reason to say this is sensitive, don't tell the press, don't mention it at the bar and so on. And I am not saying it doesn't have a purpose, I am just saying for purposes of classification here, we would note anything below secret. But if you think something is at an actual classified level, please don't hesitate to tell us. Mr. Okay. Chairman Issa. Elijah, do you have anything? Mr. Cummings. I don't have anything. 6 6 EXAMINATION BY MR. BEATTIE: Q Great. Can you start off can your background, please? A How far back? Chairman Issa. From the time you entered Federal service. BY MR. BEATTIE: Q Not grade school or anything. Can you tell us how long have you been with the State Department? A It will be 4 years . Q And how did you come to work for -- Diplomatic Security, is that correct? A That is correct. That is correct. When I was doing graduate work at a school there. There was a recruiting person there at the time. A couple of my friends joined Diplomatic Security. So after joining the private sector and getting my feet wet there and learning that world, I decided to maybe try government work. EXAMINATION BY MR. ALEXANDER: Q And what was your first post? A field office. I did approximately 7 to 8 months in the field office, then I went to and did a year in , and then now I am assigned to Q And were you in Benghazi as well? A That is correct. I did a 30-day, 32-day TDY from 7 7 approximately June 2nd-3rd through July 5th. Q And what was your role there? A I was the acting RSO on the ground. Q Okay. A Which is Regional Security Officer? Q Right. What were your responsibilities? A I had two junior agents below me at the time when I landed on the ground and obviously our primary responsibility no matter what post we are at in the world is the protection of life, property and information. Q Okay. Those were DS agents? A That is correct. Two DS agents. Q And was that the totality of the security? A Stateside, cleared Americans, yes. Other than we had a local guard force. Obviously they are locally employed staff, contracted. And we had a QRF of about four local Libyans that belonged to the 17th Martyrs Brigade on the compound itself. Q And can you describe the guard force? Were they third country nationals? A Nope, they were all Libyan. They were all contracted through a company called Blue Mountain. There were six on duty during the daylight hours when the guard supervisor commander was on, and then every other shift, 24 hours, was about five guards. Q Okay. So how many guards total? A There were approximately -- it changed regularly because we 8 8 were always recruiting new guards to add additional, but the standard format was six during the day, five evening and five overnight.
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